pzwiki_editing

[languid kayak]

I don't think there's anyone "in charge", as mostly it's odd persons just doing their things 🙂

es is oddly in not-so-bad shapes, at least compared to Polish, German, French or Norwegian

[neat pier]

I want to contribute to the translating but idk where to start or how

So asking if I could talk to someone about the spanish version hehe

[languid kayak]

You can either improve existing pages or translate pages with the /es. You can also contribute some common names to https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Translation/es&action=edit

[neat pier]

I guess I have to made an account right?

[languid kayak]

yes, you do, as it's separate from all the other accounts, but should be quick and easy though

see the pinned message for how quick it is 😄

[drifting seal]

I'm too sick to do anything for this weekend.

I did want to modify the pages that Albion improved ..

[languid kayak]

No worries, take your time 🙂

I did took a break this weekend with the editing; was just taking look at the recent changes 😄

[restive adder]

Was gonna say, make sure you don’t burn out, you’ve done a lot last few weeks!

[languid kayak]

Oddly, it was exactly what I was thinking lately 😛 Hopefully not 🤞 but breaks are expected, yeah. Especially as now the long free week in Poland is officially done (we have 1st and 3rd May public holidays, so most people me included also take 2nd)

[drifting seal]

@restive adder Am I required to have a special account to push anything? (Even 1 or two items manually)

Also, if I could lock down a GitHub actions script, I could possibly make a modified repository where the action(s) could be triggered by more than just me, however with an account that is used to perform those action API posts.

[restive adder]

You need an account with bot permissions to have greater access to the API. However, as I said earlier, I don't think you'll be able to use it at all, because the bot defence ML stuff in Cloudflare will block it. I can bypass it from here, but can't provide that externally

[drifting seal]

Ah. That'd explain my singular API calls not working.

So what would you like me to do, or what do you need from me?

@restive adder Whenever you find time and if you have any options for me to access the API, I'll set up a solution on my end. If you need to do this solely on your end due to security concerns, I understand. My only concern becomes not being able to test out changes or revisions of the code.

[restive adder]

I think I can configure Cloudflare to turn off bot defence mode. Please let me know the User-Agent you're using. Also, if you create a wiki account for your bot, let me know its username so I can give it bot perms

[drifting seal]

Both 1 & 2 ✅

[restive adder]

Or rather, I meant, I can add an override based on incoming user-agent string!

[drifting seal]

I'll create the bot account right now.

Sure. I can manipulate that. If you want you or myself can DM that agent and use it.

I love how hacky that user-agent is being used as a secret token.

hahahaha

[restive adder]

It's pretty common 🙂 Just set something legit-looking, else the host company might block it, and let me know in DM what you use

[drifting seal]

Hmmm ok. I'll take a look at one and modify it so it'll look more legit.

[drifting seal]

Sent. Let me know if you need anything else.

[drifting seal]

Also worked with my single-page event generation command.

[restive adder]

Nice

probably worth updating all the pages, editing the comments to point to you git repo instead of Co's

[drifting seal]

Also the official JavaDocs

I know that co` made this prior to the major version update to your official docs.

I also see issues with links to third-party libraries in the code base.

That can be fixed.

[drifting seal]

It might be more insightful to add human-written function examples for certain events.

local function OnPreFillInventoryObjectContextMenu(playerID, context, items)
    -- Your code here
end

Events.OnPreFillInventoryObjectContextMenu.Add(OnPreFillInventoryObjectContextMenu)

vs

local function OnPreFillInventoryObjectContextMenu(playerID, context, items)
    -- Grab the IsoPlayer object from the player's ID
    local playerObj = getPlayerObj(playerID);
    -- Your code here
end

Events.OnPreFillInventoryObjectContextMenu.Add(OnPreFillInventoryObjectContextMenu)

@flat sun I am now able to update the items modified on your pullreq, although I think the design that co` implemented for JSON is fragmented in a bad way meaning your edits doesn't seem to actually apply when the code is ran.

I had to edit parameters.json to make the change work.

I can work on detailing things like this for the repo while I work to improve it.

Again, the JSON implementation in this tool is everywhere and all over the place. I might draft a schema for PZ API and implementation of tools that spans documentation, among other possible uses.

[flat sun]

yeah, i was just guessing at how any of it worked really

[drifting seal]

I know how it works.. now..

heheh

I had to create a JSON API like this:

    OnCreate: {
        itemTypes: ['Normal'],
        type: 'lua',
        description: `
                Specifies a Lua function that will be called when the item spawns. An object is passed to the function
                as an argument. It is convenient to use to set the parameters of an object when it appears in the world.
                `,
        example: 'OnCreate = Fishing.OnCreateFish,',
        luaPrefix: 'Item.OnCreate',
        luaExample: `
                    Fishing.OnCreateFish = function(_item)
                        if not _item then return end
                        -- [CODE]
                    end
                `,
    },

This is for item script stuff

Might build a schema for Lua events sort of like something like this.

[drifting seal]

tl;dr - My craziness is going to stick around the PZWiki area of the game for a bit. :D

A unified dictionary for generating multiple outlets for documentation and applied modding tools & modding environments will minimize the confusion and problematic (false, under-described), documentation throughout the game's portals and tools.

A solid JSON schema for this dictionary is needed and I'll look at writing a candidate for it.

[restive adder]

Still not sure how the json files were generated, it looks like they might've been ripped from the class files automatically, but not sure how

[drifting seal]

It could also be manually constructed.

I did that with my vscode extension.

co`'s repository contains multiple entries of the same data. (Not saying across PZ versions)

[naive rock]

should I change the section on panic to reflect this inaccuracy?

[neat pier]

Hi there. I was interested in translating to spanish some pages of the wiki and reading the "Help" section of the wiki I noticed already there aren't some translations. As a noob I have questions. For example the begginner guide section (https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Editing_for_beginners) show the wiki in english and portuguese but not any other language. If I want to translate to spanish that page, I need to add a new page?

And another question. Can I edit this? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Translation/es&action=edit I noticed some names don't match with the ingame translation and even are translated different

[neat pier]

Well, I started translating to the spanish wiki. Already done this: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Contents/es and still WIP here too https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Editing_for_beginners/es

Slowly, but sometime I forgot that I have to keep some words in english to keep the wiki working redirecting links. Thanks for the portuguese community wiki translators because they helped so much to copy-check how to translate and what to change or keep

[languid kayak]

Yes and yes, both of things you did were good @neat pier. Thanks!

[neat pier]

Thanks 😄

I was wondering, is there a way to see the english template names? That way I know which one I should add for the spanishs. The other languages don't have much names either

[languid kayak]

No an easy way, sadly. I did fill the https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template:Translation/pl&action=edit with all the entries from https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations/blob/master/PL/Items_PL.txt so you can take a look, but it was mostly a manual work with some regex qurisk. A way to do that automatically would be the best TBH, see https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MOK7JkmuGOrs4G7tER03kvkO5E5ixeZl3bdzaNiMyNU/edit?usp=sharing

Also, there's some problems when items are named the same, so the template isn't ideal either 😩. It could be used more too, I originally wanted to start with the infoboxes, but some automatically translated stuff are not good (e.g. Axe which took the item name for the header too) https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Hammer/pl

[drifting seal]

[neat pier]

damn, this is huge. Should I contribute to that google doc? or directly keep going on the wiki template?

[languid kayak]

nah, the google doc is just my result of importing the files from github to carry over 😄

so semi-automated way

[neat pier]

ok, thanks for all!

[languid kayak]

Okay, I'm now taking a deeper look at https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:RecipeOnly – the only page that uses is https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Crafting/ja first of all, @digital helm, I saw you did the last edit to the template, so maybe you know more, but I guess it's no longer needed right? As templates from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Crafting_see_also should cover all the use cases of it, so it should be safe to remove? (I marked the template as deprecated, some images rely on the template though and some are redlinked)

Secondly, I sadly don't know Japanese, but with the help of the translator, I see a lot of info is there in the comments; do we have any Japanese editors still there? I know wiki has the history anyway, but I wouldn't want to lose too much info.

I did see that Japanese have the crafting templates out there, so I did try to use them, though the comments are not there obviously

{{Crafting header/ja|ing=2}}
{{Crafting general/ja|007|ing=2}}
{{Crafting general/ja|008|ing=2}}
|}

[languid kayak]

Might not be today/this weekend, but I've been also thinking about a small revamp of the main page sections, as per discussions with Vaileasys back from February.

What I have in mind is:

• Release dates (minor, major, doesn't matter, I guess IWBUMS and public tests too? with the links to change logs (forum post or whatever), as we'll probably get them going after build 42 releases separately out of bi-weekly thurstoids and sporadic mod posts); maybe rename it to something else than "Announcements"
• Basically a mirror of https://projectzomboid.com/blog/ called Latest news there on blog, so maybe rename them to that or something else as all the sections are "Official News", technically even the wiki ones
• Then maybe establish a monthly wiki news (confusingly named "Community News", as it's the wiki community news) basically recapping all the work that was done (any idea for a set date? Probably not the end or beginning of the month, as these are often busier and probably a Saturday or Sunday, as I usually have the most wiki time by then :P), I guess it will bring more life to the wiki. Obviously in English, but I doubt it will be of an issue as forum posts and blog posts are not translated anyway, I think version notes can be translated as part of https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations/ but I'm not sure)
• Then finally, I'm not sure if it's worth adding #tweets to the wiki, as these are mostly just reposting of existing blog posts and some random ones, but it's possible with a plugin, see https://escapefromtarkov.fandom.com/wiki/Escape_from_Tarkov_Wiki for example, though adding another plugin for mainteneance and burden may not be worth it @restive adder . Especially as it seems that FANDOM uses its own one, seems to be https://gitlab.com/hydrawiki/extensions/CurseTwitter based on https://escapefromtarkov.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Version, so I guess not worth it really?

Any thoughts anyone?

[restive adder]

So, blog copying is a please no due to google penalising content duplication, though linking out would be fine. Twitter, with the Elon API changes and stuff, I'd rather not add any dependencies or links to twitter, don't wanna have to pay $40k/month or whatever stupid fee for access to the API

Community news to try to develop more of a community around the wiki itself would be fine

*better than fine, good idea 🙂

[languid kayak]

Yeah, makes sense with Twitter 🙂 Also good point with content duplication, though I guess what we do now is fine? Just linking the page and copying the beginning of the link summary of the article?

[restive adder]

Yeah, that's fine. Even a brief summary would be fine as long as it's novel

[sage badge]

Something small, but I noticed that the warning in the editing window links to a page that doesn't exist, PZwiki:Copyrights. Is this just a link that hasn't been changed, or does it just not exist?

[languid kayak]

Yeah, it's been sitting on my (undocumented) todo as well; might as well get into it. @restive adder maybe you know, what the copyrights are? The Terms & Conditions as well as Privacy Policy both link to https://projectzomboid.com/blog/support/privacy-policy/ and https://projectzomboid.com/blog/support/terms-conditions/ as well, but technically these are no the copyrights… Here's an example on Fandom page: https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Cyberpunk_Wiki:Copyrights and here's a Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights for reference.

oh, I see it's CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 based on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:About

[restive adder]

I don't think we have an explicit copyright page, though yeah we have CC BY-NC-SA 3.0

[languid kayak]

I'll brew something up, thanks for confirming 🙂

As the red link on that page was also bothering me up :D. The next page on my (undocumented) TODO list is the Help:Tables, something Vaileasys has on their TODO list too

[restive adder]

I can ask if we can get it checked with the lawyers?

[languid kayak]

sure, better be safe unless it cost a tremendous sum to do so :P. But yeah, better be safe than sorry

Also, in case of PZwiki, we do submit copyrighted work, as it's literally models and icons that are from the game that can't be used anywhere, I assume you get that settled as a TIS so no other game can use it without legal hoops

[restive adder]

I think the prisonarchitect/paradox wiki has a bunch of templates we could nick; https://prisonarchitect.paradoxwikis.com/Category:Copyright_templates

Aye, the wiki has permission to use the images

[languid kayak]

Not so great example I guess though 😄

Well, technically the message can be edited, I think it's in MediaWiki namespace, but it wouldn't hurt to just have the page created

[languid kayak]

BTW, I just took a look; seems that both

https://projectzomboid.com/ and https://theindiestone.com/ use the same icon, but https://map.projectzomboid.com/ have a https://map.projectzomboid.com/empty.png which seems to be basically wasted traffic? Any way to have it uniform? I can optimize it to save traffic too

[restive adder]

Saving traffic isn't a concern at the icon scale, and with our caching. I'm looking at getting a custom icon for the wiki

[languid kayak]

If you will have something in mind, hit me up, though having some icon for tha map other than the blank icon would be nice too 😄

[granite lion]

I am not close to the editing scene here but have done a bit here or there. The questions I have would relate to the effort-vs-reward: (1) do we have evidence of demand for this from wiki viewers? (2) is the upkeep of this going to be sustainable (or will it compete for other resources that would otherwise be updating the wiki? (3) how well would this serve the core purpose of the wiki?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this 🙂

[languid kayak]

well, the pzwiki os there from... 2012 I believe? Started as unofficial project that was quickly adopted by TIS and then saw a lot of changes during the year but definitely useful as it's the only one for PZ and all the games tend to have one. Don't know the view stats but I think Kirrus mentioned it's the second most visited page after PZmap and someone did mention here recently (gotta scroll to see :P) that the wiki is in nuch better condition now so let's keepbot that way I guess :). And especially after the next patch people will come looking for info/document findings. Plus we have a few regular editors editing the content.

and guess we'll see how it is, I guess it will add some lofe to it seeing what's changed every month 😛

[granite lion]

Yeah I agree with you about people smashing the wiki when B42 drops. Has there been any discussion on how to handle this update when it drops?

[languid kayak]

Well, my current go-to-plan is to get what we have to a stable position, finish/close the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Build_41_Update and do kinda the same for b42 I guess

[granite lion]

That sounds pretty sensible. I don’t know how I haven’t seen that page earlier, but it looks like a good summary. Some of those dot points seem like they have a lot to them, e.g. new weapons to be added, new clothes to be added. Have we got a shortlist of what those things are that could give a sense of progress for these items?

[languid kayak]

I initially added all the missing item icons, then all the b41 clothings (they still miss pages, but at least all icons are uploaded and names should be in infoboxes). I do plan to add all the items based on the debug console and bump them to the most recent version based on the code if I manage to do so before b42 hits (but b42 will take a while, it's not even in testing/IWBUMS phase). It's on my TODO on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Faalagorn#TODO_-_PZwiki:Project_Build_41_Update

Though I do plan on getting rid of old crafting templates, as they are mainteneance burden and b42 will overhaul crafting once again so better have it cleaned up.

Generally you can watch my TODO on my site; maybe with the monthly announcements it will be easier to keep track for public 😛

I think the last weekend in the month to do a write-up would be ideal for me to catch what community did and what plans are for the next tasks.

[languid kayak]

Took a while, but I finally got to writing an issue about it. https://github.com/timbaker/tiled/issues/6

[languid kayak]

PSA: for the ES and RU editors, feel free to take a look at the https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Water_Bottle_(Bourbon)%2Fes&type=revision&diff=103729&oldid=32550 and https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Water_Bottle_(Bourbon)%2Fru&type=revision&diff=103735&oldid=22862 – I moved the contents of what was before an empty bottle and cleaned some things up, as naming rules have changed drastically on the English version, c.f. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Empty_Bottle_(disambiguation) and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Water_Bottle_(disambiguation) (I never liked the water system we have now, things will probably change again during b42 though with the new liquid system), see https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations/pull/432 – but I removed some double redirects from Empty Bottle (alcohol) and there's no redirects for Empty Bottle for both languages, something that hopefully will be ironed out eventually, but might be slightly messy (I didn't wanted to remove the pages altogether, as they had some info; feel free to recreate pages and redirects as needed)

[sage badge]

You mentioned it being the only wiki for Zomboid, but there is one that uses the fandom site to host theirs, though that site is much more limiting in what you can do, and is likely even more outdated than this one.
https://projectzomboid.fandom.com/wiki/Project_Zomboid_Wiki
Though interesting that you say the one we use has been around since 2012, but this one claims to have been around since June of 2011!
Not something super important, but felt like it was worth mentioning.

[languid kayak]

thanks :D. Good point, I wrote it off of my head and might indeed be one on fandom but yeah, not a fan of fandom (oh irony) wikis too

[sage badge]

Tried using them before, and I must say it feels so much better using the MediaWiki system instead, so much more freedom in what you can do, at least comparatively .

Glad this is the one we chose to make the main one instead of the fandom one 😄

[restive adder]

Tim has commented on the issue now

[languid kayak]

Yeah, I just responded and I'm compiling it with the fix now 🙂 Seems the 32x31 icons are like that in the game, just no one ever noticed that? I also forgot that there was a fix in https://github.com/timbaker/tiled/pull/3 I forgot of existence, though tim's one is cleaner

[languid kayak]

Seems I do have to modify the files still and copy the files over, but at least I got it working now 🤔 Will take a look later, but seems that the 31x32 and 32x31 icons are game issue, probably the icons being one pixel off are not caused by a TileZed version difference.

[restive adder]

might be intentional, might be mistake. unlikely to be fixed, unlikely to cause issue in game

[languid kayak]

btw @digital helm before I pull the plug, wanna be 100% sure, but everything in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:RecipeLookup is already ported to the new templates, and the RecipeLookup is good to be removed when it's no longer used? (it had some extra descriptions, and visual guide, but other than that it suffered with the issue of reaching the template limit)

[languid kayak]

Mistake is more likely 😄 I like to have those fixed as it causes confusion and might eventually come bite in the ass, but as you said, as long as it doesn't cause issues it's fine, especially as I have it documented – even better now that I'm getting confident it's not an issue of me doing something wrong or having a wrong version of TileZed as now even on the native version it outputs the same versions 🙂

Hm, for some reason all pages using https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Notice/fr seems to be broken (template doesn't show anything); something to take a look somewhere down the line I guess 🤔

[neat pier]

Thanks mate. Few days ago I encounter the weird bottle naming templates. I didn't touch anything, just translated correctly. I can translate that properly but I was wondering if the english version it's up to date

Also, I notice some spanish pages have a different color background, some are blue, some are plain white and the english ones are yellow-red-black. I guess we all should use that page template colors right? That way the different language pages are all similar and not a mess in colors and styles

[languid kayak]

Well; the non-English versions are sadly often way WAY behind 😩. I always have a dillema where to start, whether to focus on English versions to have a better base or at least removing some bloat and moving/removing (this only admin can do, so I tend to focus on these) and removing old templates the non-English ones do (so they won't confuse people, especially as we have a lot of crust gathered over the years).

Mind that I only speak English and Polish (native; though the state of the Polish wiki is terrible, contrary to great Polish translation done mostly by @eternal shore :)), other languages I barely know so I just use Google Translate (or DeepL) to keep the context 😛

I generally try not to lose stuff that's already written, but feel free to rephrase what I leave, that's for the languages you guys talk.

[neat pier]

@languid kayak ask Kirrus to give you admin, that way you could contribute to the english one too. He gave me it the other day because I couldn't link properly the mediawiki spanish website and my link was flagged as spam and now I can edit the english one too

It seems the water bottle page it's up to date to the 41.73. It seems it only mention the water bottle for the bourbon bottle, nothing about the beer ones or the classic plastic water bottle or the soda ones. we could add that

[languid kayak]

I am an admin 😄

And I do contribute to the English one :p

[neat pier]

well no, nevermind. They are different pages. What about merge all of that into 1 page? Too bad for the wiki or name conventions?

[neat pier]

nvm, i read it wrong lol

[languid kayak]

These probably use the old templates, feel free to link them to me, I'll check a look

[neat pier]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Drinks in this category
This is the one with 41.73 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Water_Bottle_(Bourbon)
But I notice other water bottles are on other version too, like the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Water_Bottle_(Mayonnaise) at 41.68

Thinking as a wiki user and for wiki editors, we have like 6 different pages just for a water bottle of different types. I know those bottles are different in capacity, but maybe we could just merge all in 1 page and write there all the bottle characteristics

It's a bit confusing for all imo

[restive adder]

Merging them all sounds like the most sane way, though liquids overhaul in 42 might impact

[neat pier]

yeah, that too, but maybe the b42 it's in 2024 or late late 2023

we can just left that untouched until b42 too

talking about the liquids and b42. what are they going to change? i missed that blog hehe

[languid kayak]

Yeah, it's all confusing 😩. I already mentioned that yesterday in this chat here: #pzwiki_editing message I originally wanted to have them separated in-game back in 2018 as I always tend to micromanage water, but nasko said that back in 2019 or so when I added a PR that they decided to keep the name uniform.

However, what's is that they are separate in properties too, as in only some can be used for molotov, they do hold different liquid amount and I generally am in favor of 1 page per item, as these properties do change over time.

I'll do a pass of all the items soon™ for the English one, I had a busy weekend but managed to finally get myself to remove the RecipeLookup for non-English pages (gotta finish this hopefully today, after I go back from vet with piggies so might be late) :P. I want to finish getting rid of the old templates (crafting/recipes, infoboxes, navboxes), then get rid of the old icons from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Pages_requested_for_deletion, then upload and move icons under the Item_ name I guess, so they'll be easier to maintain in future (I'll probably use a bot for that with Auto Wiki Browser what Vaileasys did before, just gotta make a bot account for that) then some more cleanups for boilerplates/infoboxes so the pages are easier to complete and slowly bump everything to 41.78.16 hopefully™. Might take a while, though I do keep track of what my general TODO is on my user page here: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Faalagorn - will probably move it somewhere more wiki-space soon™ too. Might take a while, depends how much time I can scrape off, but hopefully I will. 😛

[languid kayak]

Should be populated now, basically what was in PZwiki:About, probably can move it from there, but I don't think it hurts, at least it's not redlined now 🙂

[sage badge]

👍

[languid kayak]

Can you link those specific pages btw? I can take a look

[languid kayak]

It's all messed up indeed;some pages in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Empty_Bottle_(disambiguation) link to water bottles, some to empty bottles 😩. Might ibdeed to what Kirrus said, merge them all, but maybe not in that moment

"of the month" for 5 years already. These things olways get old 😛 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Community_projects

(changed it to featured for now)

[neat pier]

This one was an old version from 2018 that I recently translated and converted to mantain the format and colors from the original english wiki. You can check the page history https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Help:Contents/es&oldid=40755

But man, was trying to show you on random pages with no luck, and I found some kinda bad translations. Ssouless... Some felt like translated from google or using words no one use in spanish, not even latin spanish

Question. This summaries, should I write them in english or spanish if I translate to the spanish wiki?

For exmaple this carpentry page, someone used a different pic of the spiffo https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Carpentry And spanish: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Carpentry/es

Does it mind? I usually prefer to keep all the same in format between the different languages

[acoustic jacinth]

hey im pretty sure it should be moving not movie but i dunno

[drifting seal]

Out of curiosity would it be frowned on to document a page over the binary format for the map files?

I would guess that network packet data would be but I don't know about publishing the map binary format being ok or not.

[languid kayak]

Yeah, it was an old format 🙂 There are some other pages that use old templates too

That reminds me I'll have to write Help:Tables, as it's missing too 😛

[languid kayak]

Polish is as bad too 😛

Not even Google translate, plain spelling and factual errors as well as sloppy writing and outdated info

[languid kayak]

Doesn't matter, it's kept in wiki history, I write them in English, but you can use your native ones if you think it will help other editors

[languid kayak]

https://giphy.com/gifs/TheFourOnFox-fox-tv-uWzS6ZLs0AaVOJlgRd

(but yeah, should be fixed; feel free to do so if you haven't already, or link me the page, but should be easy to do as per pinned message #pzwiki_editing message

[restive adder]

I'm asking upstairs, but so far 'no problem'

Be mindful of not making cheat skiddies lives easier, but happy to document the map format for modders to use if they wanna

[drifting seal]

We both agree on being mindful. I made their lives much harder when b41 came out. =)

Script kiddies can't script when the network security code is in Kotlin.

Thanks for checking.

[languid kayak]

I should probably decide whether we use US or UK spelling and whther or not to use oxford comma, as I never know and I think it's not mentions in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Style_guide as I never know; thoughs? 🤔

Was supposed to be "Minor cleanups" but my fingers slipped before I realized 😄

[restive adder]

Uk spelling.. since a lot of the core TIS staff are uk-based?

I can ask the writers if they have a preference if you’d like?

[drifting seal]

Do you find this to be a big enough issue? I'm a native English speaker from the US and I see both all the time.

As long as the proper wording and flow are good, then it wouldn't bother me.

No sentence fragments or run-on sentences of course..

If a middle school or high school English teacher would grade it a A-, then I don't see any issue personally. :D

[restive adder]

It's mostly about consistency, and to prevent edit warring, but I'm not too fussed

FYI, I've added cookieless, anonymised statistic tracking on the wiki, so we (TIS) can get a better idea traffic quantity. We're only looking for aggregate numbers, and are removing data from IP before processing

[languid kayak]

as long as it's not Google analytics, guess it's fine; today even Valve moved away from it 😛 https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2023/05/steam-gets-game-trials-with-dead-space-being-first-plus-valve-dumps-google-analytics/

[restive adder]

Can’t be gdpr compliant with GA. It’s matomo, that we host

[languid kayak]

I guess UK would be preferable as it's originally an UK game (which is prelevant in the game files), and so is Wikipedia, though the game strings use American English now with the EN UK being soon™ there are some PRs on GitHub that are waiting for good times 😛 https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations/pull/458 https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations/pull/462

[languid kayak]

haha, exactly the one I recently read about, good choice 👌

To talk about consistency, here's the fragment from the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Community_portal 😛

[languid kayak]

Slightly relevant, seems now that Arch is getting rid of SVN totally from their repos. https://www.phoronix.com/news/Arch-Linux-Discontinues-SVN which for them is a good change, especially reading (surprisingly not so toxic) comments under the article as that would allow regular users to add PR/MR (on GitLab), guess we'll see as they finish transition this week 😛

[languid kayak]

BTW, is this something that can be looked into when it'll be on for a while? That could shred some light on what are of wiki to focus; FANDOM has similar tool for wiki admins, too.

[restive adder]

I can give you a user if you want yes

[languid kayak]

could come in handy 👌

[restive adder]

Afkish, carpal tunnel syndrome flare. Dm me your email address and I’ll add you once recover

[languid kayak]

no worries, no rush with that; sent on dm 🙂

[frail fossil]

gonna add a minor strategy to the fire article

[slim plinth]

hello!
At the suggestion of some people at the mod_development channel, I want to add a coding guideline to the wiki modding page.
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Modding#Modding_tutorials

Here is the markdown version of the guideline at my github.
https://github.com/shadowhunter100/Project_Zomboid_ModTools/blob/main/Cows Coding Guidelines.md

Please help as I am unsure which section it falls under - hence this message

[languid kayak]

Took me a while to clean it up, but I brought most of my messy TODOs from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Faalagorn over to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Community_portal/Priority_issues – a page that required love anyway, as it was last updated back in 2018, so most things were no longer relevant. There are still projects that I need to take care of, including some translation coordinations, but should be mostly up to date. Feel free to add anything else I might have missed, as it's mostly things I am currently working at, cleaned, roughly sorted by priority and merged with what was back in 2018 😛

[sage badge]

Is there some sort of guideline for the naming of locations and/or containers for the distribution tables? Some are quite obvious in where they are, with saying the location such as "Gigamart Tools", and others quite obviously tell you what container they use, such as "Crate Farming." However, some spawns such as "Homesteading", are more ambiguous.
If there isn't, maybe we should form some kind of guidelines for it? There's plenty of pages that still don't have any distribution tables, and I feel they're a much superior method rather than a short sentence saying something like: " ___ spawns commonly inside farming stores."

I've attached an image of what a table might look like without any filtering of the locations, I feel it'd be good to establish a hard line about what can and cannot be combined into one category, as well as where some spawn types actually spawn.

Something to consider adding to the style guide perhaps, this also reminds me that the "Tables" page in the help category, hasn't been created yet: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Help:Tables&action=edit&redlink=1

[sage badge]

I am also reminded of the sections included in some weapon pages: "Breaking Doors", and "Chopping Trees," should these be included in the page if the weapon is ineffective at performing such task, such as if they do 0 damage to a door/tree?

[acoustic jacinth]

its down at zombie house alarm triggering https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Custom_Sandbox#Zombie_Lore

[languid kayak]

I don't think so, but I've been thinking about it, kinda occupied with other stuff still. Take a look at the boilerplates and existing pages, might be worth adding to the issues list, as iy might be worth to think through 🤔

[languid kayak]

and help:tables is on the priority issues now 😄

mentioned yesterday today after midnight here: #pzwiki_editing message

I'll probably do something sbout it soon soon™️ but if you or anyone want to, feel free!

[drifting seal]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Modding#General_Additional_Modding_Resources
This page is a monolith and probably needs some TLC.

I may or may not work on it depending on my time available to do anything.

I also think that links to discord messages in the app from the Wiki should be discouraged. That's my opinion. We can post on a GitHub repo if not on the site itself. =/

[languid kayak]

@sage badge I think the Discord link on your page isn't working? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=User:Carina&curid=22587&diff=104269&oldid=97073

[languid kayak]

fixed

[sage badge]

Ah darn, I thought that would work, but I guess not. It's meant to just lead you do a direct dm with me, oh well!

[languid kayak]

thought so too, but it just led me to Discord login page and then to my general friend list 😄

[languid kayak]

One thing that's been rustling my jimmies today – while I've been clearing up the community portal, I've been thinking about adding the priority issues to the sidebar, so they would be easily accessible (read: for me :P) and was thinking of swapping the community news, as they are in the main page anyway, however I couldn't come up with the good name for it as "Community Priority Issues"? "Community Issues"? wasn't fitting.

This brought me back to the naming I was thinking back in #pzwiki_editing message. While I know that wikis typically use Community Portal naming, maybe "Wiki projects", "Wiki issues" or "Wiki things to do" or something like that would be more fitting to do?

Also, while https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Community_portal/Things_to_do and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Community_portal/Priority_issues are subpages of the PZwiki, the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Community_projects and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Community_News are not subpages 🤔

Though we do have https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Wiki_rules in the sidebar

Or maybe keep the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Community_portal (as it's the common name for wikis) but then scrap the subpages and either keep the Wiki prefix or just scrap it altogerher and just have PZwiki:Priority issues PZwiki:Projects (or PZwiki:Community ptrojects as it's now) and PZwiki:Things to do?

Anyway, something I'll probably have to sleep and think over, maybe I'll add it as low priority for now

Also, I've been thinking on the long run, any reason we have the subpages for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Items (and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Tiles) or is it just to get the auto navigational bar @digital helm? (https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Community_projects have it added manually though). We do have https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bags and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Weapons that are transcluded anyway, maybe skipping the subpages would be easier especially as we use language tags for subpages…

[gentle gulch]

Um, the drinks page displays "Hot Cuppa" twice but the links are properly set up for hot and cold cuppa. Everything looked right in the formatting, so I don't know where the problem is.

Oh, I think the cold cuppa redirects to hot cuppa

[languid kayak]

yeah, it does. Can you link the page?

[gentle gulch]

Here is "hot cuppa": https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Hot_Cuppa
Here is the drinks page: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Drinks#Other

[languid kayak]

thanks, fixed!

[gentle gulch]

Perfect, thank you!

[languid kayak]

I know slight revamp to main page and porting the translated versions is on my TODO list, but gee, Norwegian main page is so old it still mentions the IRC channel and the twitter link from back when the wiki was official 😛 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page/no

[languid kayak]

Elaborating further on this, here are all the pages in PZwiki namespace: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:AllPages?from=&to=&namespace=4 – I guess it'd be best to keep "Community portal" as is, since it's used in other wikis, but then scrap all the extra "Community" and "Wiki" prefixes, so

• PZwiki:Community portal/Priority issues → PZwiki:Priority issues (or less likely PZwiki:Issues)
• PZwiki:Community portal/Things to do → PZwiki:Things to do
  And then maybe
• PZwiki:Wiki rules → PZwiki:Rules
• PZwiki:Community projects → PZwiki:Projects

And then replace Community News (since they are part on the main page anyway and that's where they mostly belong) on the sidebar to the (Priority) issues, so they can be tracked easier 🤔

[languid kayak]

I've been thinking about this as well; probably will rename things to "release" (releases from https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/forum/35-pz-updates/&sortby=start_date&sortdirection=desc a whenever they happen_, "blog" (as in official news from https://projectzomboid.com/blog/ what we call "official" now) and "wiki" (monthly recaps what happened, done every month's last weekend). Will have to do it in one batch though, along updating regional variants of main page along it.

[tired nexus]

hi to all i was wandering to find where i can find a tool to create certain area in the vanilla map for example to create a military outpost with lootable crate but i don't know where i have to start can anyone help me?

[neat pier]

#mapping start here. This is for things related to the wiki

or #modeling

[tired nexus]

sorry! thanks alot

[languid kayak]

Okay, I pushed this changes now, any thoughts? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page

There's currently 3 release news, 6 blog news and 3 wiki news. Wiki news are neglected, but I'm still set on updating that monthly from next week on

I am open to suggestions about numbers and order of the news

[languid kayak]

I also changed the link color, as the red links seemed like it would be an empty page 😄

The drawback is, I broke most of the language main wikis with it, but I will update them later too ❤️

[languid kayak]

I went ahead and pushed that too, except the Wiki rules and Community projects changes. Let me know if you want something changed!

[granite lion]

I support those name simplifications. Well done.

It seems like there’s some overlap and cross-over to get to the priority projects (via the sidebar, and via the community portal (forgive me, I forgot the exact name but it was also on the sidebar)). It also seems like what is a priority is a little bit buried among other options (it is not listed first in that dot-point list). Does anyone else feel similar?

[languid kayak]

You mean that some things at https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Community_projects and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Priority_issues overlap? I tried to move as much as I could to the projects itself, but the projects need some cleanups too 😩

[granite lion]

Yes, that’s the one. Sorry, am typing on phone and it’s cumbersome to swap over. Please forgive my laziness!

[languid kayak]

np 😄

I do have that when writing from phone, too

[languid kayak]

you also mean that the order should be swapped?

I kinda left the Community portal and projects close to each other, plus it was where they were before

[granite lion]

Yes, quite possibly - I am drafting a larger text message now that goes into further detail to elaborate

Also, after browsing the community projects page and the priority projects work I felt confused. It was hard for me to know what to work on: is it the priority projects (and if so, what part?) or is it community projects (and if so, those with a leader or without, and even then, what part of that project?).

Does the community (or the leaders thereof) have a view on how people can best contribute to improving the wiki? If so, is it possible to build that view into (a) a visible page easily accessed from the main page (b) how a contributor is presented with the options of what they can work on?

To elaborate on (b): I can see there are several reasonably verbose lists of things to improve (e.g. a list of projects, list of pages, or some code/template to parse), but often I don’t find the broader context of where this task fits… I guess what I am suggesting is that it may be worthwhile for us to think about how we might “package up” these tasks/requests/suggestions into much more tasty morsels for the community by answering questions like:

1. what does success look like?
2. why does it matter?
3. where can the contributor go for details?
   And so forth (for more on this, check out www.managementcenter.org/delegation )

I’ve got to log off for now but hope to be back on some time again soon to respond. Thanks for reading 😊

[languid kayak]

Yeah, it all makes sense. The best example of a current project is a note on top of the page about PZwiki Update Project, I guess in future it could be spread to smaller-scope projects maybe even with progress like ones that pops on Wikipedia, Mobygames or things like PCGamingWiki have, e.g. https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/PCGamingWiki:GOG.com_Enhancement_Project

The Priority Issues are basically ported of what I had on my user page (see https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=User:Faalagorn&oldid=104107) or Vaileasys have on the bottom of their page (https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Vaileasys) combined what was on that page before (most of which were severely outdated). How I see it, Priority issues are general issues not tied to any particular improvement project, that need to be worked on (replacing old templates and the likes), some of which might require admin rights and I'm slowly working on them, but community can help with others as well, plus it's clearer to see what's being worked on on wiki for the curious). 🙂

I do plan on cleaning up the community projects and priority issues pages more, so hopefully it's clearer (maybe even scrap the high/medium/low priority as it's all subjective, just have the things on hold that are blocked by something else, e.g. wiki issues or game update), so hopefully it'll be more clear and accessible, but if you do have any specific advise in mind, feel free to edit (or in case of sidebar/main page, you can draw a crude drawing in paint or something to see if it's worth, then I can change it if it's sane and nobody is against :P)

I do want to refresh the main page a little too, especially that (at least under 1920x1080 which is currently the most popular resolution) there is some free space since screenshots are taking the rest (I've been thinking of adding of addming new page sections as FANDOM does, but I'll see)

[languid kayak]

What do you think of moving two more pages then? Then it should be it.

• PZwiki:Community News → PZwiki:News
• PZwiki:Wiki rules → PZwiki:Rules

[languid kayak]

Or maybe just rename

• PZwiki:Priority issues ot → PZwiki:Issues (as that's that, can serve as a "bug tracker"/issue tracker for Wiki, seems fine with me, then in the sidebar just replace it to "Wiki issues"

[drifting seal]

I have began the project of third-party documentation support for the PZ codebase through a project that now extracts all the useful information from the https://projectzomboid.com/modding JavaDocs portal. I do not scan the website. I have downloaded my own copy a while back so this does not cause unnecessary traffic on the site.

Here's a link to that extracted dataset so far:
https://github.com/asledgehammer/PZDocs-Yaml

Here's a copy of that public JavaDocs:

Thought this information would be useful so I posted it here as well.

[languid kayak]

One more thing that's been bothering me for a longer while are naming of the files/icons categories: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:File - I think the names should be natural, readable, and that's what other wikis seem to use, so for example instead of "Category:UI-Moodle_File" I'd call it simply "Category:Moodle images" or "Category:Moodle icons", especially as they are literally called like that in game.

Also, while tables are nice and all, I don't think they are required for items? Especially as they require maintenance. And similarly, I think item icons don't need separating for all the different types too – I'd rather have icons and models grouped together rather than one category for weapons.

It's sadly quite tedious of work to (re)categorize images, but I think I'll go for it slowly, starting with moodles, then figure out slowly what to do with rest

I also can't find these two icons in the game files:

• https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Moodle_Icon_CantSprint.png
• https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Moodle_Icon_Windchill.png
  Where should I look them to extract from?

[languid kayak]

For those curious, here's what I did to so far:

I moved the old category from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:UI-Moodle_File to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Moodle_icons and removed the table (here's the oldid) https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Category:Moodle_icons&oldid=104737 let me know what you think, as I'm gonna go to sleep now.

I categorized the icons I uploaded previously under their original name to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Moodle_icons so it's just missing the two I have no idea where come from. Now just to change links to mine and the originals could be removed,

Oddly, this one https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Moodle_heavyLoad.png is 1 byte smaller than https://pzwiki.net/w/images/9/9f/Moodle_Icon_HeavyLoad.png - the only difference is transparency, but I'll have a look at it tomorrow, maybe I can scrape that 1 byte by using more zopfli iterations/passess too or pass it through another compressor 😛

Also feel free to add your 5 cents @digital helm as the recategorization was mostly your work (you're still the leader of the project), I so far removed the WIP categories from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Navigation_and_Categories and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:File to focus on the one at https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Navigation and avoid red links for categories that might not be needed, but these should all be visible in the page history if needed.

Furthermore, was there any reason for naming item icon categories Item-Something File (with the hyphen) or adding the "File" at the end? I think having pronounceable and easy to remember categories name would be more important, but maybe there's something I miss here 🤔

[drifting seal]

Today I bug-fixed my Yaml dataset of extracted data from the official PZ JavaDocs and mapped them to EmmyLua typings.

Again, is also documentation of the game so putting it here.

[languid kayak]

Passing ect -9 -strip --allfilters-b --pal_sort=120 --mt-deflate=4 --mt-file=4 to the file allowed me to match the size of https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Moodle_heavyLoad.png

[languid kayak]

I updated the style guide page with mention of no strong preference towards either US or UK spelling: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Style_guide, but you can ask when there's time, or whether something changes for B42 as I remember talking with Will about it back when I was correcting some mistakes prior to b41, but it was mostly about item name capitalization. Nothing hugely important, though I do have my LanguageTool set for British English, so it underlines these, and it does correct Oxfrod suffixes for -ize and the Oxford commas. 😛

[granite lion]

having not worked with these files much at all, I have no strong preference or any useful input for you, beyond supporting your suggestion of natural and readable.

[granite lion]

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts on this.

After I wrote my post, it occurred to me that we (as the editing community) may look to the processes Wikipedia itself (as a clearly successful example of a wiki) uses to:
(A) prioritise which articles/work to do next
(B) engage people to contribute to the knowledge base

To that end, I have found for (A), that there are quality and importance tags used, summarised here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment#Statistics - I will share my thoughts on this in a moment.
And for (B) under the left-hand main menu there's a "Learn to edit" which walks through some user-friendly steps to help people connect and gain confidence to edit the wiki. The existing "How to help" shown in your image appears to meet this function, but it does not appear to be listed on the left-hand main menu.

As for quality and importance tags: can we get some statistics on the 'most viewed' pages of the wiki? This should drive the "importance" tags, and from there perhaps we can assess the "quality" of these articles. With these two metrics in hand, it seems like the priority work just becomes improving the most-visited pages that are lowest quality, and so on.

[languid kayak]

As far as priorities goes, I do hope the existing projects will guide towards it, assuming we'll get enough workforce to do it, so far there's been efforts to organize that, but no real workforce to do so. I'll see how it goes, hopefully when I'll finish the cleanups (so people can have good bases to start editing) I'll be more into it

You mean adding https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Contents to the sidebar? I thought about it, maybe even https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Things_to_do while at it, they are linked in the community portal, but that's two

As far as statistic goes, Kirrus recently added that, see #pzwiki_editing message and my replies below. 🙂 Data is still fresh and obviously not public for everyone (same as FANDOM, only admins can access it), but so far me and Kirrus are already learning from them and I did some (minor) cleanup to the main page based on that 🙂

[languid kayak]

Hm, I did give AWB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser a try, wanting to do some basic edits with my bot – while the tool is certainly handy and relatively easy to use, I found some issues which in the end preventing me for using it for now. 😩 I might give it another try, or find some more sophisticated though learning to use it proper might take a while if my mind can grasp it 😛

For AWB, I managed to log in on my bot account https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:FaalagornBot just fine, populate the list of icons (initially thought WhatLinksHere would work, but seems it has a specific option for that). First I wanted to change https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Moodle_heavyLoad.png to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Moodle_Icon_HeavyLoad.png for test, but it's not sophisticated enough to detect templates need to be changed first, so it populated and scanned all the pages it seems. While it did try to change the images as I requested, it also applied this fix: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/General_fixes#Fix_images_(FixImages) automatically, though for me, I wanted to keep the underscores in the files as that seems it's how they are kept in the .pack files (at least that's what I see from using both the TileZed and https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/12394-pz-pack-file-manager/). Apparently it can be removed, but it requires compiling a separate module https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Custom_Modules#Customised_"General_Fixes" and the guide is based on the old version, plus for me I'd have to get the compiler working (doesn't help I'm running it on Wine lol). While also it does seem to work fine, it seems kinda ancient, last updated two years ago, using an integrated browser that can't display all Unicodes properly and the UI is kinda clunky unfortunately.

BTW @restive adder when you'll have some time, can you check if I made any traffic with that bot account? Was it meaningful?

(bot just did some scraping, no actual edits)

[restive adder]

Didn't get alerted, and the bot users have rate limits still, should be fine

Checking system no major load spotted

[languid kayak]

Thanks 😄

[languid kayak]

The AWB might come handy for some edits though, for those curious here are the edits done by VaileasysBot using AWB: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/VaileasysBot – mostly tedious file renames.

I might give it another try though, just gotta spend more time configuring it for just simple rename tasks, though the mundane fixes, like removing white spaces do come handy, and I saw them being used a lot on PC Gaming Wiki (at least the pages I edited in the past often did get such updates, and they seem to now, e.g. https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Games_for_Windows_-_LIVE&curid=1686&diff=1418428&oldid=1415784). 😆

[restive adder]

I asked and they said;

US, sadly

So I guess put a preference for us spel

[languid kayak]

Okay, I went ahead again and moved the pages. I left the redirects as they might have been linked before and they still are in the regional main pages (I'll update them all in one go later with all the changes though). I also updated the sidebar, let me know how it is now! The editing help was there before, but I moved it slightly upwards. I can change the order too. Pinging @granite lion but anyone's feel free to comment on the links; what's needed and what not.

The "Style guide" technically don't have to be linked as it can be accessed as a part of editing help, but it was there so I left it. The random page could be moved, as it's in totally different spot in Wikipedia for example.

I like to keep them short, though we still do have some space there, at least for 1920x1080 (there might be slightly less as I have a slimmer application than the default one for most OSes)

[languid kayak]

Okay, every sidebar item should have a tooltip now; feel free to check and report back any comments 🙂

[languid kayak]

Should be updated now https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=PZwiki%3AStyle_guide&type=revision&diff=105047&oldid=104837 👌

[drifting seal]

I may need to write an expansive page on the Modding side of the Wiki due to some important tools made very recently by me, @flat sun , and @royal sluice that helps expose API to the Lua side of modding the game.

I also wrote a "Rosetta Stone" for PZ's code through extracting the JavaDocs information and forming a YAML schema with that data.

The work is way more powerful than PipeWrench as a tool. =)

[languid kayak]

I hope you don't mind me strategically ignoring all the modding documentation mentions, not that I don't want it, but I can't help much, especially as I have my hands full getting the regular user-facing wiki side cleaned up. 😛

I had a very brief talk with Kirrus about it though, and I'd like the wiki to be hub for modding stuff too; as long as you don't need the help settings all things up it's fine, I'll get to the modding part in the end :). If you do need a project set up, I guess we can do that, other than that, not much linking from the regular articles, unless you want some code info on the actual item pages.

[drifting seal]

I'm making note of this, not asking for assistance. I'll eventually work on populating information regarding these tools so others can easily access it.

So all is good.

Modding is more my turf when it comes to documentation at large.=)

[languid kayak]

yeah, I know, though with me answering pretty much everyone I though I'll clarify 😛

[restive adder]

@languid kayak custom favicon Mash made for us live now

[languid kayak]

on pzwiki? I guess I'd need to clear some cache?

[restive adder]

if you don't see it maybe, it's shown up for me already

[languid kayak]

nvm, it is on chromium 😄

yeah, ctrl+f5 helped

on firefox

If you want, I can do my magic optimize the icons, though I think you'd have to update them manually? I mention an article about it here: #pzwiki_editing message

[restive adder]

nah is fine, i already compressed it

[languid kayak]

Well, every bit of trafic less helps (pun intended :P)

[languid kayak]

I cleaned up last two Fuberti's edits, there's no ill-will here, though the edits they make are kinda sloppy and a little too detailed, but an effort was made, so I guess it's fine to keep it. I'd just have to go back and verify all the factual lore information, if there aren't any mistakes here, as I'm not too lore keen in Zomboid yet, but hey, I only played for a little over 1600 hours, so yeah 😛

@restive adder did you remove the "In other languages" from the sidebar? I was literally looking into this a few days ago (I think on Sunday? Or whatever was when I was changing the sidebar), didn't come to a solution I could do myself (I think it'd require modifying a skin) and now I can see it gone.

[restive adder]

Nope, not me

[languid kayak]

Hm, interesting then, well. I was pretty sure it was there previously, but now it doesn't appear under nor Firefox with me logged in or chromium with me logged out 🤔. Well, which is good though!

[languid kayak]

Okay, now just gotta replace the recipes in https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:RecipeLookup/ru with the new ones now and do a final sweep with the crafting articles, and the RecipeLookup can be officially retired hopefully this weekend 🙂

[languid kayak]

I did my usual zopfli magic over night for each png from the favicon and used icopack to stich it back – the result is 10,5 KiB (10.707 bytes) vs 17,9 KiB (18.308 bytes) – not bad for something that's served for every user I guess, so feel free to replace that 🙂

I can see it for other icons if you want.

[restive adder]

7KiB isn't something would normally worry about, especially on something that'll get cached for a long time in the browser

[languid kayak]

probably, yeah but still wouldn't hurt I guess

[restive adder]

Added to my todolist now

[languid kayak]

Community question: when there's a table with more ingredients and there's one or more ingredients less, do you want the table to be one empty one or few empty ones? E.g. look like that or that? I always used to have empty cells, so I recently changed the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Plank#Crafting to have empty cells, but I see https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Nails#Crafting have a similar story

[languid kayak]

gonna use the layout on the first screen for now, we'll see how the recipes change in build 42 anyway, as I have no idea how much applicable our current templates will be lol

[digital glade]

I think the first image with the additional empty cells is more readable, so I'd probably stick with that one.

[digital glade]

I find the alternating contrast of the background of the cells makes it easier to tell at a glance how many ingredients each row has, something the plain yellow-ish background doesn't do.

[languid kayak]

good point!

BTW, if anyone is going to copy something from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:RecipeLookup I'll probably remove it today, as it's no longer maintained and not used for anything aside from the last uses on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:RecipeLookup/ru I'm working on replacing now.

There'll still be a hard copy admins can restore, and maybe I'll make some local copy just in case too, but it had to be replaced and served it's purpose and it will allow to remove unused stuff. The new templates aren't 100% translated, but other than the recipes are carried over so it'll be ironed over time. I'll mention that on Wiki's news post today if time permits too.

[languid kayak]

Okay, there's one last page using one of the old template https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:RecipeOnly which is a Japanese page for crafting https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Crafting/ja – I'll see if I can move the templates to the new ones, or will I just pull the plug. Sadly the crafting lists suffered the most, though they are all severly outdated, even the English one was updated only to build 40. 😩 They aren't linked anywhere in the main page either and they don't get much traffic too, so I guess it'll change eventually, even more after build 42 🤔

[languid kayak]

May's news are up now at https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:News#May_2023 🥳 Also allowed myself to mentioned you @sage badge as I remember you mentioning that whenever there's no model for some item out there on wiki, you can be contacted about it 🙂

[sage badge]

👍
Haven't been active as of late, but I'll try to get back to working on making some pages for the stuff that's missing so far.

[languid kayak]

No rush, I'll also have to get into sorting the items one day :P. Food have models uploaded, but for some reason someone decided it's better to showcase an icon for those, I'd like to rever it so the model is shown for them, but I'll be probably doing some mainteneance work then

[sage badge]

Once I get back into the flow of doing wiki stuff, I'll help with the categories if you're not already done by then 😆

[languid kayak]

Probably not, as I have some other things to do by then, but feel free to add self to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Navigation_and_Categories just in case you want to help. I never got my head around how to handle the categories for non-English ones, except I started moving some French and Russian ones to the /xx category, though it'll be a slow process.

Vaileasys did most of the groundwork for these, though for items, I'd love to change it to something more human-readable like I mentioned before I guess 😛

[languid kayak]

One more thing, maybe instead of PZwiki:Issues it should be called PZwiki:TODO or something like that? As it's not exactly issues? 🤔

[languid kayak]

I guess I'll pull the plug on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Items/legacy today too – it's been sitting with the deletion notice for almost three months now, and the only edits that page has received are me or Vaileasys' bots updating the image links. I doubt anyone needs it too. The only thing is that I'll probably move back the localized versions back to the main page, even if some are terribly outdated and will require a lot of icons replacements in the future 😩.

One more thing I've been thinking about, and I think I mentioned it briefly, is moving the subpages from Items to the main pages, i.e.
"Clothing" instead of "Items/Clothing" and so on which should be easier for both finding the pages and making translations as well as more sane IMHO, especially since we have pages such as https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Weapons or https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bags https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Light_sources or https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Keys already. @digital helm – is there any particular reason to keep them as subpages?

[languid kayak]

Is this item removed now? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Receiver it's not in the recipe template 🤔

[digital helm]

Seems to still be a thing. Still obtainable from disassembling TV Remote

[digital helm]

I think it was to distinguish between the "Items/Clothing" and "Clothing" and similar pages. From memory, Items was a list, whereas the other pages like Weapons and Clothing were descriptive pages.

Actually, I think the main reason now, is to be a "List" version of those pages. The Weapons page has a more in-depth description of 'weapons' along with the list of weapons. The list of weapons is then transcluded to Items/Weapon for navigating to the list of weapons.

I see the point with translations. I think that system just looks at the first subpage 🤔
Because of the issues with moving it to "Weapons" and "Vehicle", we could move them to "List of ..." I'm just not sure how easy that would be to navigate to.
Otherwise I'm not sure it will make sense for the "Vehicle" page to just be a list of items relating to vehicles

[languid kayak]

Currently Clothing redirects to the Items/Clothing though. There's no issue with transcluding pages, as I did with the keys and stuff to avoid deduplicating stuff 😛

List of seems sane, these pages are easier to find and index better, that's why it's generally used on other wikis. I'll think about it, maybe not today but soon™ 😛

[digital helm]

I probably had the plan at some point to fill the Clothing page like the Weapons, with general info about "clothing".

but that was a 'one day' thing

[languid kayak]

I'll probably finish cleaning up tomorrow or so but I guess https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Recipe_Usage is safe to remove? You were the only contributor @digital helm and it's not used anywhere

[languid kayak]

Okay, now we're down to the last 51 recipes using the old ReLookup placeholders. Most are old recipes that aren't present in the template, but there's still the Receiver on it. There's also some farming recipes, maybe I'll give a second look there and Pot of Stew/ja that should probably be merged with Recipe Ingredients, but it's quite a lot text on it so I'll take a look

With those two being settled, I guess https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Recipe_Template_and_Distribution could be closed, marking first PZwiki project to be officially closed 🥳

[digital helm]

You've done an awesome job with changing those over. Pretty sure I started it then basically ditched. I'll take a look over them and see what I can do to help

[digital helm]

That should be good to go. I think it was just part of the testing when coming up with something to replace RecipeLookup

[sage badge]

Opinions on using the vehicle models for their pages instead of in-game screenshots? The screenshots work perfectly fine, but I'm a little biased to think that a transparent image of just the actual model is "cooler". Also a small thing that bugs me is that the gif for the trailers has 4 images, instead what I would assume is the reasonable 2, since there's only 2 types of trailers.

[digital helm]

I agree with both. Screenshots were just quicker and easier when they were first added.

[sage badge]

I'm also biased since I just found out how to get the .fbx models for some stuff to play nice with blender so I can render it 😅 , they just don't have the tires on the model, so you gotta position and size then correctly.

[digital helm]

if you can get it play nicely, go for it. I never could figure it out. I think as a wiki we'd always prefer the standalone asset than a screenshot from inside the game.

[sage badge]

This was the first render I did for testing, but I might try to figure out a better way to do the tires just cause I'm a bit of a perfectionist and want them to be accurate to in-game.

Also the way they do the colouring for cars is too much for my very basic blender skill so they'll all be whatever the base colour for the combined texture is.

[languid kayak]

modles would be better, yea 😛

[sage badge]

Alright, is it fair to say I should upload a new version of the files then, rather than making a new file path?

[languid kayak]

I kinda wait for the transparent window models 👀. There is one in-game that can be debug spawned that have interior modeled

and openable doors

[sage badge]

Ooh yes, I can't wait for the vehicle animations, it will be sick

[languid kayak]

I'd say a new file, though I didn't think of naming

[sage badge]

So then, upload a new file, and make that the image for the infobox, rather than replacing the file with the model version instead?

[languid kayak]

I'll take a look how they are now, but won't they fit for gallery?

Model for infobox and screenshots for gallery?

[sage badge]

I suppose that works, I was thinking of just replacing all of the current pictures with a render of them, so completely phasing out the screenshots in favour of the assets on their own

If I'm being totally honest I don't quite see the point of keeping the screenshots around other than it might be a little harder to instantly recognize the car since the renders will be from a different perspective, but all the cars have such distinctive shapes anyways I don't think it'd be a problem

[languid kayak]

Can always remove them afterwards I guess if they'll be a problem, I'll see

I guess I should mention naming convention in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Style_guide#Naming_conventions ? Or I guess the model name will apply?

Is there any internal name game calls the models? I like to keep them as in game verbatim, would make life for modders and scripts easier down the line, seems Vaileasys thought the same with item names 😄

[sage badge]

Yeah, they all have names like "Vehicles_VanRadio" or "Vehicles_SportsCar"

So then, name all the uploads as "VanRadio_Model" or something similar then?

Actually, now that I think about it, it may be best to keep the screenshots at least on the vehicles category page in the table, since it shows them in their natural environment, with the change in angle with the renders it would make you have to think for a second or two to figure out how it'd look from the iso perspective.

🤷
The vehicles are probably the most iffy on which is better to use, as opposed to the items which is an obvious choice for the model

[languid kayak]

Vehicles_VanRadio Model would be fine by me?

[languid kayak]

Yeah, it baffles me why someone reverted the models from infobox for some food earlier, but that was probably since food have several models (rotten, overcooked, cooked, packaged…) so they wanted it in a gallery instead, but I'd say it's best to keep a regular model as a model and I don't see problem with repeating them in a gallery (and seems it's what you do anyway :P)

BTW, thanks for this one @digital helm https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template%3AVersionNotice%2Fdoc&type=revision&diff=106565&oldid=104171 😛 – seemed easy enough but I always get lost in the templates macaroni code 😄

BTW, do you use any syntax highlighting? Especially for editing templates as it's easy to get lost there where every space and new line matters?

[sage badge]

For now, I'll upload the vehicles and set them as only the infobox, after I've done all the renders for them, and after it's actually there, can probably get a better look on how it feels, see if it feels right y'know.

[languid kayak]

Yeah, just logged to the game to verify, it's there in-game as an option for crafting remote trigger, at least on debug, and got one in debug from disassembling a TV remote indeed. Guess it should be added to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Crafting_electrical then so then we can replace the hard-coded recipe in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Receiver

[languid kayak]

Aside from adding Receiver to the crafting electrical template, pretty much the only things that are left before I close the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Recipe_Template_and_Distribution are the few old recipes for Doodle and Journal as well as some removed food items using Crafting/core directly in https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?search=ReLookup&title=Special%3ASearch&go=Go

Should these old recipes be added somewhere to the templates? Removed? Or kept as it is?

There is Crafting/it and Crafting/es too, but these, as well as other Crafting pages, will need a cleanup/retranslation at one point, ideally after English will be settled 😛 (it's on build 40 and on wiki's TODO). There's also Pot of Stew/ja that should be merged with recipe ingredients probably, but I kept it as it's quite a lengthy page

[sage badge]

Something odd I've noticed, the individual asset of the taxi appears to have a different advertisement on top? In-game it uses a "I ❤️ Wok Rolls" ad, but the texture itself shows a backwards Spiffo ad. Unless I'm missing something.

[languid kayak]

Maybe the advert changes? Or was supposed to? I guess guys at some modding channels may be more helpful?

[sage badge]

It is certainly strange, I also noticed that the textures for the normal variants of cars do not have the contour lines on the hood? So if I wanted them to be game-accurate I'd have to do some editing of the textures to nab it from a different texture and plaster it on.

For example, the truck, which is the most obvious it doesn't have the contour:

[restive adder]

I asked the devs for you;

The textures been back to front is because the car is "mirrored". He may be able to do something on import or within Blender to flip the scale on the x axis (or one of the axis depending on how Blender orientates it's world axis).
Cars that come in several colours and are "plain" are tinted, in game with the shader. The textures are run through a combiner before been added so we can mask off areas we don't want to tint, like the engine. The game pngs don't have the contour lines when opened in photoshop but the info is there somewhere, i'm not entirely sure where tbh, it just works.

Hope that helps

[sage badge]

Still doesn't answer where the "I ❤️ Wok Rolls" is coming from, since I don't see it on the textures for the taxis, at least that I could find 🤷

I could just be missing something though

[drifting seal]

This is done using an outline shader IIRC. Was in that code last year.

[restive adder]

Might be altered during combiner pass possibly, not sure

[turbid pivot]

Bottom left of the texture is where the Taxi and I Love Wok Rolls is

[sage badge]

Am I blind? I swear I only saw the Spiffo's one

I'm so confused

[turbid pivot]

ah we have some duplication of textures, if you look at the scripts they point to texture = Vehicles/vehicle_cartaxishell, and texture = Vehicles/vehicle_cartaxi2shell, which are the latest versions. the Spiffo ones are old and need to be removed

[sage badge]

Oh wow, I see, nevermind, it's because of the file explorer's stupid search function 😅

I searched "taxi" but only the older ones showed up!

[fresh goblet]

So, I came to this server becuase I had a little project idea and wanted to confer with the community before editing a bunch of pages:

I want to add tables to the container pages (e.g. sewing kit, duffel bag) expressing how much less they weigh at various fullness (currently thinking 25%, 50%, 75%, full, full w/organized, break even point) both while equipped and while in the inventory

[digital helm]

Hi, and welcome. I think that would be very helpful!

[digital helm]

No highlighting, but larger more complicated templates I would use indents and new lines with comments to help.
The amount of times I've shown preview just to see everything break...

[languid kayak]

Yeah, with big templates it's always a scare. I always break news sections. Speaking of, I wonder if there's a way to automate this or make it easier, though I do update it with every blog post now 🙂

[digital helm]

RSS feeds I assume. Not sure how that works though. Presumably an extension? @restive adder do you know if that's something that we could do? Updating news feed on the main page can be tedious, and can be behind if we forget or vanish.

[languid kayak]

Can take a look... It's wordpress after all so I guess someone come up eith something

[restive adder]

https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RSS but.. I’d be reluctant to add another, though updates aren’t as awful as they used to be now we have a tool. Additionally, cloning text verbatim may harm SEO

[languid kayak]

It's just a first few sentences we copy manually anyway, so I guess it should be configurable to do just that, guess we'll see for later

[fresh goblet]

Well then I guess I'll do that once I learn how to make tables and make them look nice

[languid kayak]

that sounds sane, as what to losd out with when running through base or scavenging light. Gotta think how to incorporate it to what we have

[fresh goblet]

I was thinking the bottom of these pages, under the part about how good they are

[languid kayak]

I got to take a second look about bags/containers anyway, especially as I saw some activity in the old Russian Navbox templatw; maybe a new template and/or pages could be useful for that 🤔

[fresh goblet]

I will say I've done a couple wiki projects before, but only ever did plaintext editing, never really made formatting decisions. So on that part I'm all ears

[languid kayak]

@digital helm Really tiny tiny nit, while it doesn't matter I kinda started using uppercase for templates such as {{Languages}} and {{Header}}; seems it's what Wikipedia and other wikis tend to use (and make more sense, since without displaytitle page names are always uppercase :P) https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Electricity&curid=16403&diff=106685&oldid=64355

Also, any use of forcing __TOC__? It still appears in right place without it

Also a tiny nictpick, but should we call the wiki "Wiki" (uppercase) or "wiki" (lowercase)? Wiki as in the word is written lowercase https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wiki but Wiki could be used if we mean (the) Project Zomboid Wiki as in logo and main page:

OTOH, we use PZwiki (lowercase) for everything else.

[languid kayak]

Seems it's still an "issue"; I guess it could be removed somewhere in the style, I'll take a look soon™

[digital helm]

That was just left over when testing the formatting. No reason for it other than to show the editor where the toc will be.

[digital helm]

I think if it's in a title, it should be a capital. But everywhere else should stay lowercase.

[languid kayak]

So just leave it as that in the logo and the title (the two cases shown) and lowercase everywhere else? Sounds sane.

[digital helm]

what's the context with this?

[languid kayak]

Oh, I did mention it before to Kirrus, the "In other languages" does appear sometimes, though we don't use it the way other wiki use (separate wiki for each language, using the subpages for this instead), so it could be probably commented out somewhere in the style.

Here: #pzwiki_editing message

But yeah, I now see I did mention it without context 😄 Guess I was tired 😄

[languid kayak]

Haha, I never realized that the template was used at the redirects, I was scratching my head why it was used at these pages, good find @digital helm https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Canned_Tomatoes&curid=6058&diff=107079&oldid=31003 😛

[digital helm]

me neither. It was by chance I stumbled across it when I was changing the small animal meat name. Maybe I can add those old navbox templates to the list, once I'm done with the infoboxes

[digital glade]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Black_Leather_Trousers This page needs a teensy bit of work, don't it ?

[languid kayak]

I added them to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Issues but I thought about moving it to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Navigation_and_Categories - just remember about the non-English variants of these templates!

[languid kayak]

Yeah, there's couple of them, feel free to improve based on the boilerplate or some existing pages (I updated some boilerplates, but they still need some love): https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Boilerplates

BTW, it seems that two spanish pages exceeded node count, something that needs to be looked at: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Category:Pages_where_node_count_is_exceeded&action=edit&redlink=1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Template_limits#Preprocessor_node_count - gotta figure what caused it and fix it

[digital helm]

I might have to run through all the clothing pages like I did for the Weapons https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Build_41_Update#Needs_updating_or_improving

The way I have them tracked now is only if they haven't been created yet.

[digital helm]

I think I ran into this problem with the original RecipeLookup. I worried this would happen with Template:T

why is it doing that for those pages though and not the English ones 🤔

oh, nevermind, because they're English... so they're not having to translate

[languid kayak]

Well, templates, while handy, often add complexity like that 😩

[languid kayak]

It's on my TODO as well 🤔. BTW if you can, you can try getting https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Item_List to work again. We had some new items since (athletic t-shirts and pants, athletic trousers and bowling bags, there were few renames too I believe)

[digital helm]

won't be too bad for item pages (infobox and navbox), but it'll break on item list pages and crafting pages, where it's doing a lot of translating.

I'm making a template now to return the subpage name. Which'll work for links, reducing the node count by approx. half. This'll be better too for image links as we're currently relying on redirects.

[digital helm]

on the list

[languid kayak]

We rely on redirects for images? Which ones? Icons? I also thought about reuploading the images again under Icon_ filename, something you seem to want to tackle eventually; will it interfere?

Also, do take a look at https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:FULLROOTPAGENAME – it's a template we don't have, not a magic word: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:FULLROOTPAGENAME

[digital helm]

In the Item lists, the image links are {{T|Hammer}}, which on a Polish page will link to Młotek, then that's relying on a redirect to Hammer/pl
This template will fix that though. Not sure why I did that in the first place.

Rather than reupload, could you just move the images. That way we don't have broken image links everywhere. But, no that wouldn't be an issue.

It would probably break this https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Img_item
But I'm not sure where that's used, or if it should be. Due to the node count.

[languid kayak]

Yeah I know, I did that with several items, though there are few that have weird categories, descriptions and broken revisions (I guess images were corrupted), though I'd ideally do that with ASF in one go, though while I did set up ASF, I have to tinker with it a little to not to replace the underscores in item names, as that's how they are stored in the game apparently, so easier to keep them that way.

BTW https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Food/ja and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Farming_Guide/ja both have an old template-like header while the other pages moved to the new template, I guess they're old, but don't want to straight up remove them, especially that while there's a https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Farming/ja there's no alternative for the Food one. Maybe a merge notice to Farming Guide would suffice?

[tulip kiln]

God damn, my first time giving it a good look in a while. PZwiki has drastically improved, good job guys.

Especially compared to early 41 beta when I first started editing

[languid kayak]

Working on it™ – a lot of it is still under the hood, but we're getting there and with the edit here and there by someone just joining it's consistently improving 🙂

[digital helm]

I'm in the same boat. I just came back a couple of days ago

[digital helm]

Yeah a merge notice. The English ones got merged quite a while ago.

template done https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Subpage

[languid kayak]

Will update in a moment 👌. What I don't like about the under construction templates is that it shows the last edit, while often person originally responsible for it avandons the page and it shows the last person doing some mainteneance work. I did change few of those pages for {{Oudated}} but maybe something to think about 🤔

[languid kayak]

Seems something got there 😄

[digital helm]

fixed. damn testing

The ideal use is this {{Subpage|Hammer}}, it's the same format as {{T|Hammer}} but returns the correct link instead of the translation

So an image would be [[File:Hammer.png|link={{Subpage|Hammer}}|{{Translation|Hammer}}]] or replace {{Translation|Hammer}} with {{T|Hammer|no_link} former is preferred imo

[languid kayak]

Makes sense and I see use for it, but for now you want to use it for something specific? Fixing the template calls, counting pages, or something entirely different as I might have missed it?

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Items/zh seemed to break too 😩

[digital helm]

for the broken items pages. They're filled with things like this [[File:UI Tick.png|link={{Translation|Weapons}}|Usable as a weapon]] which (I believe) is tipping it over the node count limit.
Replace Translation|Weapons with Subpage|Weapons

[languid kayak]

I'll take a look in a moment, unless you want to, fingers crossed 🤞

Just gonna finish updating the item links first 😄

[digital helm]

I'll do it in a sec

Good, it fixed it. I'll do it to the rest of the pages. Have you moved all the Items subpages?

I do have one problem though. Because some English words have been translated in the translation template, instead of adding it to the list in [[Template:Translation]], it's now linking to the wrong page. e.g. French pumpkin, should be linking to Pumpkin/fr (or at least Citrouille), but it's linking to Citrouille/fr

[languid kayak]

Hm, I don't get it. The | Pumpkin | pumpkin | Pumpkin = Citrouille line gets used when sometimes a page name is transculeded?

Also, these templates would need some documentation too, I saw people adding to them, but without editing a code you don't get how it works :p

[digital helm]

nah, on the English page it's {{Translation|Pumpkin}}, so when it's been copied onto the French page, they've translated it to {{Translation|Citrouille}} on the page instead of adding it to the list in the template. And so changing it to {{Subpage|Citrouille}}, adds fr to the end

oh yeah... I thought I had done that.

having documentation probably would've fixed that problem

[languid kayak]

I don't see the "Citrouille" page anywhere though 😄 Nor the Pumpkin/fr

Anyway, I moved all the Item/XX pages now and updated the links outside of the regional main pages which I should probably update soon™. Now the only pages that need updating are https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Crafting and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Tiles

Well, maybe I'll just get into it and then think about updating the main pages, the latter might not be today though. I do think that Crafting and skills could be linked in the main page too

[digital glade]

Would it be possible to add the mouse-over text for the Organized trait's bonus for the Large Backpack ?

As it stands, only the Fanny Pack and the Large Backpack lack the mouse-over text that other Bag articles have. How would I add them ?

By mouse-over I'm talking about these

[digital helm]

The calculations are done automatically. Doesn't work for the Large backpack because it's not a number, and I'm assuming the Fanny pack has something to do with being 1. I'd have to look into it further. If you're familiar with wikiscript expressions. Here's the calculation {{#if:{{{capacity|}}}|{{#iferror: {{Tooltip|{{{capacity|}}}|Or {{#expr: floor({{{capacity|}}} + ({{{capacity|}}} / 100 * 30))}} with the Organized trait.}} | {{{capacity|}}}}}}} from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Infobox_container

I'm about to run, so I won't be able to look into it right now.

[languid kayak]

Okay, I moved both Items and Tiles to the new pages, leaving out the subpages; let me know if antyhing's wrong!

Now it's moslty just https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Crafting left, now the question being how to call the pages?
e.g. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Crafting/General → General crafting? Crafting (general)?

I'll probably want to put Crafting to the main page, which will be wise to have, especially after Build 42 crafting overhaul, similar how Items and Tiles are

[languid kayak]

Seems the last page requiring attention is https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Items/es but I'm not sure; should I just remove all the instances of {{T}} on the three transcluded pages? There's no exact links in the format as you changed e.g. here: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Food/zh&curid=20203&diff=107537&oldid=107245

I saw you already replaced the offending ones.

There are {{T}} being used and {{Translation}} for headers (in clothing wrongly so), but I guess replacing them would result in loss of the translated names?

These are the four pages transluded, the rest are in English (though seems that they cause the actual issues)
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Clothing/es
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Equipment/es
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Food/es

Again, not a template expert, especially the way they are set up here, but maybe it's because the translations are called (only) in the subpages? Right?

oh nevermind, just transcluding these three pages into one breaks the page 😩

[languid kayak]

Speaking of image links, do we really need them? Do people actually click them expecting to go to the item page? That's something that annoys me from other wikis, as I want to access the image itself. Doesn't it add some way of complexity too anyway? While they don't necessary need to use a template, that's a bit of extra page code that has to be loaded, processed and maintained.

I remember I removed them at one point in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Tiles explicitly to allow for easier image editing.

[languid kayak]

@digital helm I did some improvements to the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Translation - I removed the table to instead just show the documentation in English (which makes more sense TBH, plus we wouldn't have and English one if just the translated pages would have it :D) but added some clarification to the template, how is it used mainly. I also changed the Hammer to Language, as it's present in almost all templates (Just not in Czech, Hungarian and Chinese (Simplified) as I added them as empty).

I also mentioned the case where two words are added separated by |, I never dug dip into the template, but I assume it's for the two words to be translated the same (which seems to be used for the uppercase and lowercase variants of the words).

In the future, we could mention plans on incorporating the automatic translations from https://github.com/TheIndieStone/ProjectZomboidTranslations or the game files, though we're not there yet, except our tests 😄

Language table is available in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Languages, and it's transcluded in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Language_policy anyway, so we don't need it there.

Feel free to proofread my sloppy writing, but if it's understandable and there are no objections, I'll copy it to the regional variants for translations (or may do it earlier, as at worst we'll revert it, depending on the time 🤔).

I also thought about providing some guidelines how and where to start translating. Folks here seem to do great job figuring things out, but there were some questions how to start translating. Documentation for this template is a good start, but I though about providing some guidelines, probably in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Help:Contents

Currently I mostly point folks to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Style_guide#Translations which is lacking. I'll add that to the TODO of the project.

[languid kayak]

We should also mention where a template should be translated and where it should not, for example {{Languages}} is never meant to be translated, but what about Infoboxes, Navboxes and other templates that use Translation database? 🤔

[languid kayak]

What tool you mean? For updating the plugins?

Well, the RSS might be handy as even if we are both around now I just realized I totally missed the mod spotlight from 3 days ago 😄

Plus even if I'm around for thurstoids that'd save me hassle of hunting for it to add it manually (and I sometimes make errors too, as I'm a human, there were some situations when I left an old link from copypasta) 😛

[restive adder]

Aye, I now have a tool which makes upgrading less of a hassle, but in case it breaks I’d stop like to keep extensions added to a minimum if possible

Also got the php upgrade due, and that may break some*

[languid kayak]

Keeping extensions to minimum is absolutely a way to go 👌

I got that with the Wordpress I manage, people were initially insisting on adding some gallery extensions and they are annoying as hell 😛 Don't break, mind you, but annoying

[restive adder]

Not sure therefore on RSS. Maybe if it’d be used on more than one page? Or I wonder if an edit bot could do it

Anyway bedtime for me! Will respond tomorrow if you have further thoughts 🙂

[languid kayak]

Yeah, just thinking out loud, nothing that requires immediate attention 😄

(and yeah, I should go to sleep too :P)

[digital helm]

original intention underconstruction having the last edit date was so readers could see when it was last edited, so if it's been under construction for a long time, the notice should be removed. I picture underconstruction as being something for a larger project that may take several edits to complete.

[digital helm]

this is now added. In its own category too https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Metatemplates

[digital helm]

I've removed all the sections on this Items page except Clothing due to the node count limit https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Items/es. So it's like the Crafting page now. I can't think of any other quick fix right now. I'll probably do this for the rest of the Items pages too.

[languid kayak]

Yeah, I know, it works for Wikipedia, but for our scope it's often overused and people forget to remove the notice 🙂 I mostly change it to {{Outdated}}

[languid kayak]

nice

but I do see you still had to hide one section 🤔 https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Items/es&curid=2648&diff=107917&oldid=107717

Maybe the page is indeed too big? Maybe instead of transcluding we should just link to the appropriate pages? The item page still lacks ammo (which is still at a category) and weapon mods too

[languid kayak]

Okay, as discussed briefly with @digital helm on private, I did a small change to the main page, the news page headers are now links – let me know if anything's wrong! If not, I'll want to carry on and make the links such as Items and Tiles clickable too.

I might shuffle links a little, based on what's most visited/important, and maybe add a few quick links, I'll see, then I'll update the sandbox and regional main pages 👀

[languid kayak]

@restive adder seems that this file wasn't removed properly for whatever reason? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Smallrag.png I still get it with search results and I get the following error when I try to remove it

[restive adder]

I've tried a few things, but can't get it now. Will need to waitfor tomorrow or later in the week, may need to debugmode mediawiki

[languid kayak]

Okay, I moved the Receiver to the template, now pretty much the only thing to decide left is what to do with the former recipes (Kindle, Doodle, Journal, Boring/Simple/Tasty Soup/Salad, Broccoli Chicken Casserole, Grilled Cheese Sandwich and Whiskey Bottle (Half) currently and some language variants)

• Remove the pages altogether
• Remove the recipes
• Include the recipes in the template, even if they are not used (I don't like it, let's just keep the most recent version only)
• Remove the comments and just keep using Core
• Keep it as is and close the project

Thoughts?

[languid kayak]

Might it be because the 20:48, 13 June 2011 version doesn't show at all?

[restive adder]

yes, it's likely a corrupted history

[languid kayak]

BTW: Medical or Medicine suits the medical item list better? We have Medicine in header, but Medical on the main page, one uniform name could be better 🤔

After more and more fiddling with the news on the side, I'm more and more tempted to just remove the links from there – Version history could be linked as a regular page while Status and Build History and forums are linked on the sidebar; thoughts?

That would made page a tad shorter, since other boxes are shorter right now, and slightly more aligned

[digital helm]

Medical? To me Medicine sounds more like it's only drugs

[languid kayak]

Good point, gonna change that today

[digital helm]

I didn't even notice, they would've been missed. I think they should be on the Weapon page

[digital helm]

Like you mentioned earlier, I think we could remove 2 of the blog posts, and 1 of the wiki news from the main page

[languid kayak]

or we can have it 3/3/3 to make it even though, especially as I'm planning for mothly wiki summaries every laet weekend of the month, and if I remove the links if you don't mind. Though we'll see if we could maybe make our life easier with the RSS as discussed, if you want to and Kirrus won't mind? That might require some minor style changes depending on the implemention

[digital helm]

Sounds good to me

[vocal prairie]

Will the images for items and stuff ever be updated?

[languid kayak]

what do you mean? The images for item icons should be up to date, models are being uploaded mostly by Carina, though you are free to update them as you see fit, too.

[languid kayak]

should be done now 👌

[vocal prairie]

Oh, It just looks a lot different up close ig

[languid kayak]

you mean models like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Axe ? If so, they are updated for some items, some will have them updated in time, as they require extracting from the game files.

[languid kayak]

I'll keep it as is right now, will see if we ever get automatic news running, though I just removed [[Version History]] and other links from this section, should be better now. I also envisioned the changes I'd like to make to the main page soon-soon™ more closely in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Issues – basically what's just left is changes to the quick links and first section of the main page; then there's just minor fixes to the icons (adding twitch and maybe updating social media icons), adding news screenshots and minor updated to the news section maybe.

[languid kayak]

yeah, I think too. Gotta add it someday unless someone will do it first

[restive adder]

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki_talk:Community_portal#bad_link probably right?

[languid kayak]

Yeah, I saw that they added the language bar today, didn't realize it was a wrong page, should be fixed now 🙂

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Motion_Sensor&curid=10676&diff=108271&oldid=96979 - is it true that motion sensor isn't obtainable?

I just quickly looked it up and it appears it can be spawned?

media/lua/server/Items/ProceduralDistributions.lua:8216:            "MotionSensor", 8,
media/lua/server/Items/ProceduralDistributions.lua:15991:            "MotionSensor", 8,
media/lua/server/Vehicles/VehicleDistributions.lua:1193:        "MotionSensor", 8,

(home alarm indeed doesn't seem to have any spawns though)

[languid kayak]

Seems it's spawns as part of "EngineerTools" and "SafehouseTraps" as well as "ElectricianTruckBed" in vehicles, I assume they work, so I'll clarify

[languid kayak]

I added them as notes now, but that brings back that the distribution table would need to be created someday, I'll add it to TODO for now 🤔

Mentioned by Carina here: #pzwiki_editing message

[languid kayak]

If there's no objections/better suggestions, I guess I'll proceed with the moving of these pages, at worst we can move them again later

Just one thing I wonder, is it better to call it Crafting (general) or Crafting (General)?

First one is title case, though game uses some title case. These are available as headers, but it's no wonder why they start with uppercase letter there 😄

[digital helm]

looks like you decided. I'd be on the fence for this anyway

[languid kayak]

Can always be changed 👀

BTW, we don't have Engineer and Smithing recipes, while Smithing is unimplemented yet (for several builds now, but we may see it revamped in B42), while Engineer is just four recipes and some are locked behind the profession, these are in Electrical, so I didn't add them

[digital helm]

I think we wait. It may all change eventually. Originally it didn't seem worth adding Engineer for a few recipes that could fit in Electrical. I guess we'll see for build 42.

[languid kayak]

Yeah, my throught too. Things will probably be vastly different then anyway 😛

[digital helm]

Like how everything had to change for build 41

[timber mica]

um I went into the wiki edditing stuff and was confused to hell so I gave up. The Egg section on wiki, to make muffins, flour is missing as ingredient 8

[languid kayak]

is it? it does show for me, what device are you on?

It's the bottom of this section: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Egg#What_it_makes

oh wait, nvm, @stable pond just fixed it, thanks!

BTW, I'll probably (at least I'll try to) finish updating whetever I want in the main page, mostly the links so that the mostly accessed/relevant pages will be hopefully easier to find. If anyone have any comments afterward, ping me here directly (or contact me in any other way) 😛 Also pinging @digital helm and @restive adder just in case – I discussed it briefly in here and outlined it in here https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Issues#High_priority - if you

Also pinging @steady rain as a leader of https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Locations_and_Maps just in case you want to participate or want to add something in creation of the [[Location]] page 🙂

[restive adder]

Getting a responsive theme is getting higher on priority list. Might be worth thinking about formatting tables so they fit on phone screens

[languid kayak]

Can't say attachment from here, but I guess it doesn't look terrible, just the screenshots aren't centered, something I tried to fix but gave up for now

FANDOM does it so it serves a totally different page for mobile users, might take a look how they do it, though IMHO FANDOM pages are hideous 😩. mind that I generally prefer browsing stuff on a PC...

font is small, without zooming, but that'd need a whole new skin

[languid kayak]

oh and news columns disappear for whatever reason, but it's not so terrible

funnily, the only icons I haven't touched are the ones that are blurry 😄 I do plan to upload a scaled ones, should help mobile users too

Wikipedia also introduced a new skin, but I don't like it, and heard the same from a friend, not sure how other folks would comment on that 🤔

There's also Vector (2022) that could be set as default but I don't use it and I prefer the more classic Wiki ones 😄

[digital helm]

That was intentional, for phones. 😎 Could be improved though from that screenshot (I never use phone :/)
Despite all my research when the main page was changed, that was the best I could do to help with phones. I assumed some js magic would've been needed to re-arrange the tables. But, as I said, that's beyond me.

[languid kayak]

Well, I'll improve on what we have, better than to start all over especially as I probably wouldn't been able to objectively come with something better 😛

[restive adder]

Looks like the priority issues link here is broken; https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/24218-the-wiki-needs-your-help/

Worth replacing that pinned post with an alternate one?

[digital helm]

I'd forgotten about that. I've fixed the link. Definitely needs to be updated at least. @languid kayak have anything you'd add/change, or rather make a new topic and kirrus pin it?

[languid kayak]

Thanks! Can be left as is, since Vaileasys can edit it; speaking of which, one "issue" that's been nagging me since forever, can you update the two links to https there :P? https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/forum/35-pz-updates/

(luckily they work so it's nothing important, but yeah, always nagged my inner OCD) 🙂

[restive adder]

done

[languid kayak]

I'll probably have to log to forums to see what we have, though most folks probably switched to Discord nowadays (me included), I still get some confirmations.

One of my pet projects would be "porting" the https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/forum/35-pz-updates/ into a list where we (I) could cross out things that's implemented, a lot of them were added throguhout years though 🙂

I originally tried to keep such list in Google Keep, but it became unwieldly, wiki page may be easier to manage 😛

(Though I believe it might be redundant, though it's probably mirrored internally :P)

(went up to 607 back then apparently)

[digital helm]

I was doing that too. I think it was in a txt file for a while. I used Trello for a period, but that became too unwieldly too. I use Trello daily for work and have been playing with their API lately, so I could partially automate creating the cards with each update. But the free version has a card limit I think.

[restive adder]

I can spin up something like this if you’d like, under a subdomain of pzwiki; https://kanboard.org/. Not sure if it is designed to allow public access

[languid kayak]

Not sure if it's worth jut for it? I remember that back in the days there was some public bug tracker for the PZ, but it's long gone, not fit for the purpose anyway. Might be a while since I'll probably have time to get into it too, so depends on what Vaileasys things I guess 😛

[restive adder]

We’ve tried a few bug trackers, the forums is the only way to get the devs to use them. Mantis and bugzilla iirc

[languid kayak]

well, Arch slowly moves away from flyspray to gitlab, but their whole workflow is about git repos 😛

and bugzilla is... clunky to say the least 😄

And yeah, I think I never used Mantis for anything, looking at their demo, at least doesn't seem like anything remotely familiar: https://www.mantisbt.org/bugs/my_view_page.php

[digital helm]

Not sure it'd be worth the trouble. At least for now. We'll see how we go with these maintenance tasks first. There's an API and python library, which is nice.
I might look into it further though.

[restive adder]

Mantis is awesome, but it was key to bring the bugs to the devs, rather than get them to login somewhere new. Nowadays I think the QA team add things to internal trello

[restive adder]

If you want it I’m happy to host it on our servers. Let me know, happy either way 🙂

[languid kayak]

There's some questions asked, but I can't answer that without testing, unless someone knows for sure? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Plumbing maybe @fossil epochcan help?

[sage badge]

I believe I've tested this myself before after seeing it on the wiki, as I wanted to try the multi-story plumbing, and I believe it also didn't work when I tried it, I'll test it again to confirm if it is in fact true or not.

[sage badge]

@languid kayak Confirmed in a debug save that it does in fact work, I must've done something wrong when testing it the first time, I tested it using this setup if you're interested:
Water collectors on the top floor, a bathub and water dispenser on the second, both tiles of the tub have been plumbed, and two white standing sinks at the bottom that have both been plumbed and appear to work.

Only mods used in the save were purely visual mods as well, so fairly certain this should work in base game. Here is the mod list if you're aware of any that would affect this (Though I'm fairly certain none of them would):

[languid kayak]

Huh, so I wonder what that person did wrong 🤔 Probably a false alarm, then. Want me to reply to them, or do you want to point them to it (not sure if they're on Discrd or not?)

[sage badge]

For talk pages you do just edit it like a normal page correct? And is there some way to notify the user that I've responded to them?

Bah, I went ahead with it, hope they see it.

[restive adder]

Edit like a normal page yup. Add four tildes after your message to sign it. As long as the user is watching the talk page they’ll get an email about it, or you can write on their user talk page directly

[sage badge]

Got it, thanks. 👌

[languid kayak]

Okay, I updated the Main Page a little to streamline is, mostly the links – let me know how it is!

The things that's left for me to take a look at

• Update social network icons to use smaller ones without scaling, add Twitch and update the icons to the newest versions (might just need some quality optimizations, but seems fine now)
• Quick Links – add Crafting and Locations, remove Game Modes and replace some images with Spiffo: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Spiffo (will add optimized versions today; Location is stub)
• Update screenshots
• Maybe add something to the Wiki community block (I thought about new page creation) and maybe Play the game block, since there's a space
• Add more things to Businesses (maybe even remove the Knox County (0.2.0), see https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Navbox_businesses but it needs cleanup
• Update links to follow sentence case (need some minor cleanups/double checking)

Let me know if there's any significant link missing on the main page or anything to improve on though! After I finish updating the main page, I'll add the changes to the language versions of the main pages too 🙂

[languid kayak]

I'm in the middle of updating the main page, so far I uodated the social network icons, right now I'm gonna update the quick links, but so far there's no Location page. Not sure if I want to explicitly move the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Knox_Country to the Locations, so I'm wondering whether I should transclude the page, or redirect for now? 🤔

[digital helm]

I think how you've done it is good, by having a separate locations page

[digital helm]

Also, I've just added the number of pages in each of these maintenance categories, so it'll be easier to see what needs more attention.
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Site_maintenance

[languid kayak]

I'll send a link to all the automatically generated pages when I'll be back home; gotta see what plugins we use and compare it, some are redlinked on my user page

[languid kayak]

I'll do some touch ups probably later today; update the optimized 32px social icons (they are currently a tad bigger, but I didn't optimize them yesterday; Humble icon seems to be the red "H" now), double-check all the links, remove some remaining comments and I guess it'll be it to pull off the update for the sandbox and language pages 🙂

[mild mist]

it would be great if there was a way to see all possible foraging drops

[languid kayak]

it should be, not sure if it's on wiki yet™ but it's something doable as the files could be even parsed

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Foraging#Items is so far the most comprehensive

[languid kayak]

The foraging drops could potentially go well with the general distribution on pages, something Carina mentioned before, might be even worth making a project for it down the road eventually

[digital helm]

For those interested, I've added a "Translation needed" category, one for each language https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Translation_needed. Articles are automatically added to the appropriate language category with the {{Translate}} template https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Translate

They're mostly empty right now, but include the {{Translation}} template https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Translation
Which we use to automatically translate common words/phrases. Specifically those used in infoboxes - might include navboxes and crafting in the future too

[languid kayak]

It seems to be largely done now, I won't bother with the screenshots and adding new page creation (too convoluted, bad idea). I'll probably just make one final sweep to 100% check if all links are fine tomorrow and maybe do some tiny minor changes (oh and fix Screenshots being misaligned on mobiles and other resolutions), but until then it'll stay as such. Let me know if you spot anything wrong, if not I'll update the rest of the main pages with all the changes.

[languid kayak]

Seems it's a tips page? Does it have an English equivalent? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Советы

I also went ahead and remove the traits redirect for Russian pages, some had (I believe?) outdated names, since these weren't present on table, but I could find the meaning using Google Translate (I'd have to compare how it is in game now), but since Connal and DUMBBELS, then admins, removed the stubs English traits pages back then, I figured I'll remove the Russian redirects too for now.

If anyone want to recreate them, it'd be best to do it from scratch I guess, but do let me know if you think so!

The only page linking to them is https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Desert_Eaglee which is of user who contributed back in 2011

(so the start of the wiki pretty much :P)

[languid kayak]

I might take another look at how to vertically center the screenshot; should be doable but not so easy as just slapping one CSS 😩. Else, if there's no other issues, I'll just do a quick sweep and start updating the regional main pages with all the changes 🙂

[digital helm]

There have been a few "This person's guide" pages, so may have been like that? Like these https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Incomplete_or_Outdated_Guides
But no, I don't think there is a 1:1 equivalent

[languid kayak]

Probably will have to move it to some Tips/ru or something like that iwthout English equivalent eventually, though right now there's other pages that are yet to be moved. Just let's not forget about it 😄

[digital helm]

at least it's in a "guides" category, so we shouldn't lose it

[languid kayak]

I think guides mostly lost its relevance on wiki since wiki can provide more to the point info about a specific issue, but maybe these could be cleaned up and linked somewhere in one page/link on the main page, I'll see. Probably a page though, as I'm not fan of recycling categories as a list of tthings 😛

BTW, I'm in the process of cleaning up the remaining old recipes for https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Recipe_Template_and_Distribution before properly closing the project, but I think where to draw the link when it comes to maintaining old pages.

Some should be kept, as some unused files are kept in the game files, such as Doodle, Journal, Kindling or some barricade stuff (these I think don't have pages though) and can be spawned on vanilla via server admins, debug mode or glitches/mods, but I wonder where to draw a line with physically removed stuff.

Some are still present in the game files marked as obsolete and can't be spawn, but some pages have items that were pretty much replaced entirely, e.g.
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Normal_Hiking_Bag (was it even called Normal?) and removed clothings or things like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Boring_Soup I think were replaced entirely?

I'd have to compare with the game files to be 100% sure, but I wonder what to keep and what to remove so we won't be overburened with removed stuff no one cares or maintains for 🤔

[digital helm]

I think replaced ones can be removed. Maybe just add a reference in Trivia or something stating the previous existence. A lot of things got replaced in b41, especially clothing. Normal Hiking Bag was a thing in b40, just got replaced by Hiking Bag in b41.

The soups are a weird one, because they got replaced by evolved recipes, which is currently all on one page. I'd like to have a page for each one of the recipes but I'm not sure how to do it. I worry that it'd increase duplicate info and have trouble maintaining. Not to mention items having the same name but different ID/properties, e.g. Burger and BurgerRecipe

Here's an old one https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Cake&oldid=69061

[languid kayak]

Was it even called "Normal" back then? Or just "Hiking Bag" Can't remember honestly

[languid kayak]

Yeah, soups are on a system I barely played Zomboid; I remember back when RJ added Evolved recipes, but yeah, these are ancient.

And yeah, Recipe Ingredients are a behemoth I'm scared to touch 😩. It is visited a lot though, which makese sense. I never used it, only using my spreadsheet for food (I should port that to wiki one day)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ijaFPhDt8EMaIfoW1ZmpRldnYTIKVvkzmVfXB4kxWbQ/edit?usp=sharing

[digital helm]

Seems there's a few tools out there to convert csv to a wikiscript table

[digital helm]

Look what I found. From 2.9.7

   {
     WaterPot,
     Broccoli/Peas/Carrots/BeansOpen/Chicken/Steak/Salmon/TunaTinOpen,
     null,
     null,
     
     BoringSoup,
     70,
   }```

   {
     WaterPot,
     Broccoli/Peas/Carrots/BeansOpen/Chicken/Steak/Salmon/TunaTinOpen,
     Broccoli/Peas/Carrots/BeansOpen/Chicken/Steak/Salmon/TunaTinOpen/Butter/Cheese/Egg/Flour/Sugar,
     null,
     
     SimpleSoup,
     80,
   }
 
   recipe Make Tasty Soup
   {
     WaterPot,
     Broccoli/Peas/Carrots/BeansOpen/Chicken/Steak/Salmon/TunaTinOpen,
     Butter/Cheese/Egg/Flour/Sugar/Broccoli/Peas/Carrots/BeansOpen/Chicken/Steak/Salmon/TunaTinOpen,
     Butter/Cheese/Egg/Flour/Sugar/Broccoli/Peas/Carrots/BeansOpen/Chicken/Steak/Salmon/TunaTinOpen,
     
     TastySoup,
     90,
     TastySoup_TestIsValid,
     TastySoup_OnCreate,
     TastySoup_OnGrab,
   } ```

[languid kayak]

2.9.7? Ancient indeed 😛

[languid kayak]

@spiral ivy I guess it was you who updated the links here? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Modding&type=revision&diff=110069&oldid=110067

The links are red now, but you want me to move the pages as well? There are a couple of them in the Modding: I guess we could move them all to the main namespace, as they won't collide, and Modding: is not a real namespace https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:AllPages?from=Modding&to=&namespace=0; just need to fix links. I talked about it briefly with Kirrus back then here: #pzwiki_editing message

[spiral ivy]

yep, i tried to move those pages! It was flagged as spam

I noticed that as I was trying to type a guide for modding traits that the title didn't match the rest of the wiki, so I tried to fix it

I sent Kirrus an email

I was also considering naming those "Kahlua" instead of "Lua" [Blank] Since that's a bit more accurate

[languid kayak]

For now I moved the pages to just avoid the Modding namespace; seems it was just just three pages with lots of subpages, though not all moved, probably since it's so many lol. Could probably be done by hand if needed too, see https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:AllPages?from=Modding%3A&to=Modding%3AZZZ&namespace=0

I left the redirects for now, though I don't mind removing them in the future if links will be updated everywhere 🤔

Not sure if someone updates those pages anymore, but if it was with a script, then it'd probably would have to be updated with the new links too 🙂

[languid kayak]

You can also feel free to @languid kayak me if you need something else moved, as I should be able to help with that too as an admin, though Kirrus might be more responsive about what's going on the server side; might be some spam control picking you up. I see you are in Autoconfirmed users though even though you made less than 10 edits, but your account is old enough; pinging @restive adder just in case there's something I miss?

[languid kayak]

About the Kahlua, I guess this could be done too, though Lua is technically easier to find I guess, so I'd leave it as is? Though I never did any modding so can't say for sure; others might be more helpful on that matter 🤔

[restive adder]

@spiral ivy if you get the message saying ‘blocked for potential spam, if you’re not spam email kirrus’… email address is provided in the error message! Some of the other anti spam tools might be getting in the way; what exact error message did you get?

[spiral ivy]

erm, I'm not sure. I didn't see anything in particular

[restive adder]

If you can always take note of the error message, it helps me work out what’s blocking you.. or tells you my email address depending 🙂

[spiral ivy]

I'm guessing you're off work right now? I sent you an email with whatever details I gleaned

[restive adder]

Yup, will get it in the morning. If you saw my email address in the error, I just need your username/email address and can prod the anti spam service into not bopping you

[spiral ivy]

Don't wory i sent it along!

Though i'm afraid the entire guide I wrote got deleted

Is there a chance that what I wrote and attempted to update is logged?

[restive adder]

Will reply tomorrow once I’ve kicked the anti spam service. If you hit back on browser you might be able to get it? I only get limited data on the log, but can take a look tomorrow see what’s there

[spiral ivy]

Thank you. I can't find anything in my history :S

[languid kayak]

Yeah, browser often save it, shame you can't find it 😦 What browser do you use?

Some time have passed, but you can see what you have in clipboard too, in case you copied some parts of the text, then paste it to notepad and save for the time being

[inland lodge]

I'd like the wiki to make it extremely clear whether or not this "Acutal melee damage" only occurs if you choose Strong as a trait versus earning Strong via gameplay.

Because the way I read it, if you don't pick Strong trait and instead earn Strong, you will continue to have the normal melee damage multiplier (lv9 120%, lv10 125%) versus starting with the Strong trait you get a separate value of melee damage multiplier (lv9 168%, lv10 175%).

Same problem with fitness. It is incredibly unclear. At first I thought it didn't matter if you earned athletic/strong or picked it, but the way the wiki words it and presents it, it makes it seem as though there is a difference.

l
Otherwise, if lv9 strength was going to do 168% damage regardless if you earn it or pick it, then why bother making a new line in the chart to show "actual damage". Thats the confusing part. There is seemingly no reason to do that. If you get 168% damage then you might as well write one line and put that as the lv9 benefit. Why write the "theoretical damage" as 120%?

[languid kayak]

I believe it isn't; it just shows the damage you'd have without taking the perk into account, which, indeed, never should occur in the actual gameplay (though I believe it can be removed by server admin or debug tools)

[inland lodge]

that was 20 trait points because the wiki explained it weird

[languid kayak]

😄 Someone can confirm, probably doable in debug, then maybe it could be reworded to make it clear (I never had this assumption, but I get your point), though keep in mind that those are extremely slow to level in the base game, so you'd look at surviving at least a year to get there 😛

[languid kayak]

I actually went ahead and clarified that so hopefully will be more clear and will hopefully prevent those mistakes in the future: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Skills#Passives – let me know (or outright correct me), if anything's wrong/still unclear though!

Also, do keep in mind that there is planned skill reword somewhere down the line, though not sure if it will hit build 42 or some hotfix (it was originally planned for build 41 but didn't make it to the game).

[restive adder]

You've got mail! (Email :))

[spiral ivy]

Thank you! I really appreciate that. If you see anything for the traits modding guide before that log, please let me know!

[restive adder]

No sorry, sent what I had

[spiral ivy]

Sincerely, thank you for looking into this! I really appreciate it

[restive adder]

Welcome 🙂

[copper flare]

Hello! I just noticed that the "Trauma Bag" is not included in the items list! (https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Items)

The base ID is Base.Bag_MedicalBag ^^ (Idek if you guys needed it, but im gonna mention it anyway.)

[languid kayak]

Yeah, some of the new items added in the latest patches weren't added, this includes some of the new bags and althetic shirts and boxers; I will probably update it soon™ but if or anyone want to add it before, you can do it early at https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bags 🙂

[digital helm]

I'll be working on this along with other b41 stuff after I've done with swapping out the deprecated templates. So maybe this weekend

I really want to get back into the build 41 project

[languid kayak]

Yeah, same 😄

Or rather, I'd want to have it done up to date since the version currently don't change 😛

Then we can swap the notice for something else or disable it until build 42 😉

[digital helm]

It'll never be finished. The number will just change 😆

[restive adder]

D'ya ever feel like Sisyphus?

[digital helm]

Every day

[languid kayak]

My wife is surprised how can I manage to find something to do on the wiki, but it's exactly as Vaileasys says; there's always something to do 😄

Even on games that don't receive updates, yet alone PZ 😄

[languid kayak]

But yeah, that's the thing about the projects; gotta set a stop point at some place eventually :p

[languid kayak]

BTW, thanks for updating the links on the main pages @digital helm 😄 Probably should just done that instead of waiting "maybe I'll change one more thing, so it's better to update at bulk" 😉

[digital helm]

I noticed it and wasn't sure if you realised or not.
Something to note when changing the expected value for templates, you're usually better off keeping the old and adding the new. It'll stop unexpectedly breaking things. I learnt the hard way. You'll often see this in an infobox.
If it's already a switch you can just change it to: | community | wiki = xyz
so it returns the same value regardless of the input.

obviously not a big deal for this template, but something to keep in mind.

[languid kayak]

Could have done that too, yeah. That or change it at once, as else it's always soon™, though I'll update the main pages quicker as some languages were stll on that old template, but yeah, ended up messing with other things instead ;). Thanks anyway ❤️

[digital helm]

I do that all the time. Get distracted by something else that needs my attention 😆

btw, I've done most of the deprecated infoboxes. At least the ones I could find. Going to finish off Weapons/ru then move onto other things. You moving all those pages to the English subpage has made it so much quicker and easier.

I still need to do this one https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Weapons/ru
But I'll come back to that.

I'll get started on the Build 41 pages tomorrow if I have time

[languid kayak]

It's not all yet, but yeah, I moved a lot :p

Depends how busy thE weekend will be for me, I'll want to at least do these two probably:

• finish tinkering with the main page and update sandbox and other pages
• close the recipes project finally; I gotta find your reply, but do I remember it right that you wanted to remove some of these?

Then I'll get back to finishing other things from the PZWiki:Issues 😛

[digital helm]

I think we're good to remove it. There's just the non-English Crafting pages. But they can be done any time. Not hard to find.

Speaking of which, do you think Crafting (general) could be moved to Crafting? Just because as it is now, there's no way to navigate back to the crafting page if you click one of the buttons/links
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Crafting

[languid kayak]

It can, though the same is for moving back to Items; we can the back page similarily to how comkunity projects do this?

[woven crest]

can some one do one on sanity

[digital helm]

I'm not sure if sanity does much, if anything. If so, to what extent? Does it just influence moodles, like panic?
I know it's something they want to build on, i.e. hallucinations.

There's a field for it. Not sure if this is leftovers from an older feature, like anger. https://projectzomboid.com/modding/zombie/characters/Stats.html#Sanity
I think it's just a background stat currently, that you don't really notice. If someone can correct me or expand, we can certainly add it to the wiki.

Same for morale.
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Morale
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Sanity

[flat sun]

i've looked into them before, neither do anything at all

[digital helm]

Good, I was remembering right. Thanks

[languid kayak]

Sanity is unimplemented right now, yeah. I think it never was implemented though?

[languid kayak]

Oh right, I just realized – I explicitly anemd it Crafting (general) as that's how it is displayed in-game

As in a separate section just for that

[digital helm]

Might do it like the projects, as you mentioned. I forgot we had that.

I wonder how to have it laid out in the next update. I imagine there will be quite a few more tabs (if the way it's presented in-game doesn't change)

[languid kayak]

Well, probably even devs don't know it at that point 😄 I guess when we'll be more closer to the finished test judged by the Thurstoids we'll get back at it

[languid kayak]

This is for those three too: https://steamcommunity.com/app/108600/discussions/0/630802979432256897/ I don't even know what the Hearty and Complex/Complicated came from, guess I'm too young 😄

On one hand, to properly document these, installing a last archived version of Zomboid with these would be needed and I was considering this, on the other hand, these won't come back.

I realized that we already redirect things like https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Chardonnay_(Full)&oldid=31230 (and it's linked on the old French Consumables Navbox https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Navbox/Consumables/fr) though not things like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Whiskey_Bottle_(Half)

Also found this: https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/8617-help-with-the-additem-command/#comment-111660

I also made a list of old soups/salads we have pages of:

Boring Bowl of Soup
Boring Soup

Complex Bowl of Soup
Complicated Soup

Hearty Bowl of Soup
Hearty Soup

Simple Bowl of Soup
Simple Soup

Tasty Bowl of Soup 
Tasty Soup
    
    Boring Salad
    Simple Salad
    Tasty Salad

[digital helm]

hooray

ref: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Recipe_Template_and_Distribution

[digital helm]

I'm not sure what to do with removed/replaced things like this. I guess we can keep them? Just make sure it's written well, stating it's removed, and remove the version number, so we don't have to keep coming back to it.

I guess it'd be good to keep the history

[woven crest]

Write about it

[flat sun]

there's really nothing to say about it

[languid kayak]

Will officially celebrate our first closed project in the monthly summary next week; bring champagne Bourbon 😄

[languid kayak]

Yeah, guess it'd be ideal; just gotta dig those up someday to properly document it as by the time it was written, not everything was as good 🤔. Same reason I uploaded some old icons such as https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:BowlFull-old.png and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:Bowl-old.png though I gotta see if I can extract the 32px icons from source (it's on wiki's TODO)

[languid kayak]

There is a a page about it, you can add to it if you want to, but as albion said, not much can be said as it's unimplemented yet and we don't know if/when it get implemented how it'd look. There are some eerie voices that could be added to Trivia, but other things take priority I guess 😩

The old pages will need cleanup, yeah, pretty much what Vaileasys said here: #pzwiki_editing message

[languid kayak]

Just realized it's a feature, explicitly added here 😛 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.css#L-133 so things with class="mp-hide" can be hidden 🙂

It's mostly the font being too high and maybe adding some extra caveats for phone screens, not exactly just the resolution 🤔

[languid kayak]

Will something like that do, or do you want something more fancy?

[woven crest]

I'd add things like you'd hurt your self and what not but it's cool

[languid kayak]

That's for #mod_development and not #pzwiki_editing but there are already mods for that, though I don't know if they use anything from that code. As far as vanilla Zomboid goes, it'll be probably reintroduced at one point, but that's far far away when NPCs will be added back.

[languid kayak]

(I went ahead and updated it anyway for Crafting Items and Tiles :P)

[digital helm]

Nah that's fine. Keep it simple.

[digital helm]

ideally each block would be re-arranged. Which is what most wikis do, but I couldn't figure out how it's done. Something like this.

[digital helm]

Got a bit of a problem here. We have Lua Event and Lua Events. Seems Lua Event is the old one. Should Lua Event and subpages be deleted? Seems unnecessary having both
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Category:Lua_Event&action=edit&redlink=1
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Lua_Event
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Lua_Events
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Lua_Events

Side note @languid kayak Careful when you're deleting categories. I don't think they should be deleted until there are no pages using it. In this case, I'd say to just remove the redirect and add it to the modding category. Maybe also add the deletion notice, so we don't lose it. https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Category:Lua_Event&action=edit&redlink=1

[languid kayak]

Yeah, I noticed that too - IIRC they were both at "Modding:" before

[languid kayak]

They will appear in Wanted Categories specisl page, my thinking was to discoure usong it ASAP, but for the sanity of it, especially as with the nature of wiki being distracting moving pages first to avoid redlinked one seems sane :P.

[languid kayak]

If they are the same, then I'd fo that route too, yeah. That would declitter some old Modding: pages finally :D. There were too many subpages so some were not moved over redorect, I'd delete redirects too

[languid kayak]

@digital helm I added the guidelines for the sizes in Style guide: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Style_guide#File_dimensions as I saw you set the models to 200px now, but I see you used 300px for some 🤔 https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Cotton_Balls&curid=5753&diff=111965&oldid=96095

Should I update these to 200px?

Also gotta take a look at the infoboxes and boilerplates eventually to have these up to date with all these changes. I think boilerplates should be more used and exposed, that's what PCGW did a while ago – have an up to date editing guide (style guide in our case) and sample article (boilerplates in our case) https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/PCGamingWiki:Sample_article

[languid kayak]

Indeed, https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Lua_Event/AddXP vs https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Lua_Events/AddXP seems the "Lua Event" ones are redundant; you want to redirect them for now or outright delete them (not sure where there are linked, I guess these can be mass deleted? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Nuke – don't want to touch it alone without consulting though

These are all old pages: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex?prefix=Lua+Event%2F&namespace=0

And these are the new ones: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex?prefix=Lua+Events%2F&namespace=0

And these are the new ones that weren't moved: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex?prefix=Modding%3A&namespace=0&hideredirects=1

I just did a quick comparison and seems that all the "Lua Event/" pages exist in "Lua Events/" so I guess deleting them would be the most sane, as I don't want to maintain a redirect for each of them 😄

Gotta see if they have any links; these need to be fixed eventually (I still gotta fix some of the links from my renames, though I fixed double and broken redirects yesterday; just gotta clean up the old /ua redirects; these are linked on the main page I'm up for updating)

I was about to update links and I noticed that the Japanese modding page was overwritten with the then-current, now outdated modding page and never translated back in 2018 😩 https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Modding%2Fja&type=revision&diff=39481&oldid=37303

Not sure if I should restore that revision, or delete the page in hopes it'll be retranslated again?

Switching topics, as I'll be updating the main pages next; do we need https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Main_Page too? It seems that each page is added to [[Category:Main/xx]] and [[Category:Main Page]] (just English with all the subtemplates used on the main page) 🤔 @digital helm

[astral inlet]

I'm trying to correct something wrong with the trait.

[languid kayak]

Also, are the div id on the Main Page needed? I see Ukrainian one has them translated, which makes even less sense to keep them; I guess these can be safely removed?

<div id="Gameplay" <div id="Геймплей"
div id="World objects" <div id="Об'єкти" @digital helm

[astral inlet]

Wakeful: 0.7 fatigue multiple + 10% sleep efficent

Sleepyhead : 1.3 fatigue multiple -10% sleep efficent

Also, in the case of Strong, it absolutely does not increase physical attack power.

This is the code related to Strong. This has nothing to do with attack power, it only increases knockback power.

strong : +4 Strength , 140% knockback power

Athletic is also wrong.

+120% sprint speed

-20% sprint running/sprinting endurance loss from the trait itself.

[restive adder]

The wiki is open to editing. See pinned messages on how to get started, and there’s help pages as well!

[astral inlet]

really?
ah, i knew I had to ask for permission.

thank you

[restive adder]

Only if you think it needs discussion, or if another editor has recently changed it! No permission needed 🙂

[languid kayak]

There was some great reddit post about the mechanics I believe, not sure if I'll find it quick

Ah, just realized Reddit's subs are going dark due to API changes;

I had this in my bookmarks too: https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/29885-iwbums-4143-released/&tab=comments#comment-295906

but I probably have more somewhere

[languid kayak]

@digital helm Do we need that template? I guess not? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Catmain/ru

It doesn't have English equivalent and we just use {{Main}}, not really having a need for categories I guess

I also finally cleaned up all the broken, double redirects and wanting to sort out two templates https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:WantedTemplates - there's one template to be made when userboxes get updated {{user fi}}, but not sure what to do with the {{Recipe}} and {{RecipeLookup}} being called on https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki_talk:Community_portal/Closed – straight up remove them? Comment them out? Leave them as is? (though it would be nice to have it not populate this list)

[digital helm]

Category:Main Page was intended to just be all the main page templates, whereas Category:Main is the top-level directory.

[languid kayak]

What about the language ones? Category:Main Page/xx?

[digital helm]

I don't see it doing any harm either way. Doesn't it allow you to link to that section of the page?

[digital helm]

I'm not sure... Depends if you want to separate them by language or not. I'm fine with either

[languid kayak]

div's id? I'm not sure, but do these work in main page? I'll see

Seems so indeed, didn't know that 🙂 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page#Wiki_news

[digital helm]

I think 200px is a good standard size for models, since we seem to be uploading them at 400px. For icons though, they should be 128px, to maintain the aspect ratio.

If I've done 300px or another weird number, it's probably because of the dimensions of the file, trying to keep as close to the same aspect ratio as possible.

[languid kayak]

Let's keep them as they are, so [[Category:Main/xx]] and ``[[Category:Main Page]]` for now then

[languid kayak]

Okay, thanks for confirming, I was about the same idea in https://pzwiki.net/wiki/User:Faalagorn/120_px_test - not sure why 120 was chosen 😛

[languid kayak]

These are 400x400 so 200x200 would be better I guess 😄 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:CottonBalls_Model.png

I'll do the renames for some then: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?search=300px&title=Special%3ASearch&go=Go

[digital helm]

Not useful currently. But could be useful for smaller resolutions if we end up doing something like this #pzwiki_editing message

[languid kayak]

But indeed some are weird-sized… Might eventually resize them to 400x400, but I guess uploading 400x400 and having scaled to 200x200 as a rule seems sane.

Seems Carina uploads them as such too 😄 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Contributions/Carina

[digital helm]

I think 400x400 is a good size. Only thing I don't like is all the empty space for shorter images.

[languid kayak]

I never exported models; guess you can manipulate it with model, though we have no guidelines for that and I can't say it 🤔. I'll just mention in the style guide that 400x400 is preferred for models.

[digital helm]

I found a lot of models today I thought I'd lost. Seems I've got a good mix of 400x400, 400x300, 300x300. Or even 627x547 😛

I think you can set the render resolution? But I don't remember, been a long time. A lot the ones I did today are 1920x1080, so I'm just cropping them or resizing if I need.

[languid kayak]

I did some minor cleanups, added the rest as a medium priority: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Issues#Medium_priority

[languid kayak]

Saw someone created https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Carpintería which seems to be the same as https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Crafting_carpentry/es ? Any reason I'm missing?

[digital helm]

Not that I can see. Add deletion notice, give it a week, then remove?

They've gone through a lot of effort to translate everything, but it's duplicate info.

[languid kayak]

It's just copied verbatim though, so I guess not?

[languid kayak]

Some food for thought for later, but I'd avoid calling zombies NPCs, e.g., here: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Jockey_Silks#Item_distribution as evert time NPCs are mentioned in PZ, they explicitly mean alive human NPCs that will be added in later builds (not even animals per se)

[languid kayak]

Should be done now, all pages using 200px uniformly 🙂

[languid kayak]

The latter 😄

There's only those with the removed food, as I'm not sure what to do about them; had a discussion about it. We switched the template, will blog about it on Sunday on wiki, but we discussed it briefly in here before, it marks the first project actually marked as finished: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Recipe_Template_and_Distribution

It was kinda hidden out there, Vaileasys made it back then but wasn't properly announced sadly 😦

I thought about removing it seeing the name 😄 Want to do it now? I assume you don't need it ;)?

I just wonder what to do with these old recipes, we talked about it with Vaileasys, but I was undecided and left it as such for now: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?search=ReLookup – they could be manually adjusted, but OTOH these don't bring much value anymore, let me find the discussion

#pzwiki_editing message here but I think we discussed it in DM too?

I thought of keeping the 40.xx stuff documented, but maintaining it is a burden 😩. And while I agree that there are cases for build 40 (performance, nostalgia or just the like of it), I removed some of the build 40 stuff, as it was outdated and no one really maintained it… I like the history, some pages are from the alpha version, though without all the mainteneance, no one keeps track of it.

I mentioned I like how TF2wiki (and SteamDB kinda the same) keep track of the files changed automatically, that's handy

But yeah, you definitely contributed a lot 😛 I was wondering; was that script opensourced anywhere?

Nah, I mean game files being changed and it posted on wiki

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/March_30,_2023_Patch#Files_changed

[restive adder]

This is like the epitome of trying to fix code you wrote a year ago

It is behind cloudflare

And varnish. If you’re logged in it should bypass those, tho it does break on some things

[languid kayak]

You mean not using Crafting/core directly?

I'm not sure if Vaileasys made and finished them by the time you deployed ReLookup though; I'd have to check the timeline 😄

[languid kayak]

That should be done now, only the new remains :). I also redirected the modding: pages with leaving redirects though I imagine bots and scripts would need to be updated if needed

[digital helm]

I think I was working on it at the time. But took me several months as it was a bit of side project

[digital helm]

The reasoning was because characters would be able to become zombies. For example, Bob Smith, may be an NPC, a player, or a zombie.
For loot distribution, I can see the reasoning that a zombie refers to a "spawned" zombie. But there may be no difference when NPCs are added. It may be the same regardless of whether they're a zombie or survivor. We'd have to wait and see how it works though.

However for the articles, I think "NPC" should be specific to the computer controlled fancy intelligent NPC survivors. I can see an NPC article having a lot of technical info about how they function. Which I'm sure people be interested in.
I guess "Survivor" would be the term used for someone that has survived the initial outbreak, whether they be a player, NPC, or now a zombie. Going into lore, someone that is immune to the airborne variant.

[languid kayak]

We'd have to wait and see how it works though.
Yeah, that's the issue with most things I see; I'd rather see how the game is constructed now, especially as the bits and pieces we had at the time Kate and Bob were there are probably not gonna be used now, things change rapidly each time something new is introduced so I guess even devs don't know it 😛

[languid kayak]

the current "NPC" was redirected to NPC (legacy) to avoid confusion some time ago, but that resulted in a really weird situation where all mention of NPCs anywhere redirects to the Kate and Bob ones back from alpha 😛

We don't have the mod role though, at least not now 😛 My color is from translator role (oddly). I guess some wiki admin color could be added, but not really that important I guess

[languid kayak]

Found a few more that were 250px, all should be 200px now unless there was some other odd size defined for some models 🤔

[languid kayak]

There are still some 120px that should be changed to 128px, so I'll slowly get there, but at the rate we have slowly more models, might be worth making it default to 200px for the infoboxes (other than the tiles, these should be 128px) 🙂 https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?search=image_width%3D120px

[languid kayak]

The https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Wild_Herbs got split into individual items and is in the process of being removed; I wonder if the same should be done with the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Medicinal_Herbs ?

Seems only Wild Garlic misses its page

https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Wild_Garlic&redirect=no

[languid kayak]

The only remaining one with 120px is https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Wallet but it has 120px animation, so I didn't touch it.

Though the infoboxes on those pages should probably be updated to the most recent versions with all the new changes, eventually 200px could be used as a default so it'd be best not to specify it manually at all?

[digital helm]

I noticed that. Added the deletion notice so I wouldn't forget. Looks like when Wild Herbs was created they didn't realise pages already existed. Having a medicinal herbs page didn't help. I was working on splitting the medicinal herbs up quite a while ago, but never finished it. You'll see some have a page. I think there was a discussion about it here.

I think I was doing the same with the recipe magazines

Then maybe the skill books? I think we discussed that recently.

[digital helm]

I'll do this tonight.

Not sure about changing the default to 200px, at least not yet. I think I need to take another look at the infoboxes. Maybe have 1 item infobox, then different examples for the types of items. It's getting quite cumbersome to update all the infoboxes.
May be able to have a "model" parameter, which will default to 200px, then an "image" that defaults to 128px? And make them mutually exclusive. Thoughts?
I might have to create a mockup

[digital helm]

Currently the infobox for an item should be chosen based on the Type in the scripts.
So, we have "normal", "ammo", "clothing", "container", "drainable", "food", "weapon", etc.
This was fine with build 40, where there weren't many properties, with very few (if any) being used for multiple Types. But it's started to get really messy, and not clear which infobox should be used. The same property is being re-used more and more for different types. So I'll look at consolidating this to one "item" infobox.
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Infobox

[languid kayak]

I like having separate pages, yeah 😛 Kenji mentioned the deletion on talk page: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Medicinal_Herbs#Unnecessary_deletion

Can keep both I guess, just mainteance burden; thoughts?

[digital helm]

Maintenance is a concern, yeah. The wiki has an incredibly small userbase and with the game still being in development, things will change, often. For your average person that swings by to quickly add some info isn't going to check where else it should be added, they'll add it to the one page they're looking at.

There are so many places already that these items and their info is found, or would be better suited, imo.
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Medical#Herbal_remedies
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Crafting_(health)
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/First_Aid (currently missing)
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Foraging

Not to mention the item pages themself, also.

[digital helm]

Sorry for the block of text: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Talk:Medicinal_Herbs#Unnecessary_deletion
tl;dr
I think a merge notice to First Aid#Herbal remedies might be better. Deletion makes it seem like information is being lost.

[digital helm]

Also, I added the wallet models. Seems they were in my list of models I've already rendered. I still have 177 to sort through and see which have already been added.

I should've shared these a long time ago. Nearly 2 years old. 🫤

[digital helm]

Thoughts on combining the medical herb with the poultice? E.g. Comfrey and Comfrey Poultice being on the same page. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Comfrey
Having them separate, to me feels like having a separate page for Canned Soup closed and opened.

[languid kayak]

I was thinking of doing a spreadsheet of what we have and what needs models yet, but I always got carried away with something else 😛

[languid kayak]

Makes sense since we already have multiple items on one page 🤔. And I doubt they will be used for anything else anytime soon if at all

[digital helm]

Seems I discussed it with someone here #pzwiki_editing message
But their messages got deleted so I'm just talking to myself 😆

[languid kayak]

haha, yeah 😛

[languid kayak]

Yeah, guess it's that part of me that wants to remove old stuff 😛

Merging sounds sane, I'll take a look maybe later today?

[languid kayak]

Sounds sane too, if you can pull it off (about the different sizes). Less infoboxes is sane too, I removed some f the old ones already, the less the easier it is to choose the right one too :). It's on the TODO to update them all with a good example usages (for boilerplates as well), as people often ask about it when adding new pages

[languid kayak]

Makes sense too

[languid kayak]

I'm wondering about removing the image from https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Build_43 and https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Build_45 as it's the old NPCs and might be confusing where Build 42 will be closer, though along with it some cleanups of NPCs page should probably be made too, what we briefly talked with Vaileasys when I mentioned NPCs in distribtuions, along with Survivors and Animals… 🤔

[digital helm]

Not sure if I'm missing something, but I couldn't get plantain poultice to make any difference to wound recovery rate https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Plantain#Healing_rate
Comfrey poultice seemed to halve the recovery rate for a fracture.
I'll have to test it on an older version another day, and see if something broke in later builds. I'm sure it used to make a significant difference 🤔

[digital helm]

Cleaning up the NPCs page has been on the to do for a long while. For the build pages, could replace image with this https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:K&B_intro.png

[languid kayak]

hah, didn't knew we had it, but I remember it being teased a while ago 😛

[languid kayak]

(all changed btw)

BTW, I've been wondering if https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Mechanics#Hot-wiring would better fit on Vehicles page instead of Mechanics?

[languid kayak]

Also, as I'm updating links, I came across these two pages:
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Headlight
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Taillight
Do we technically need those pages? These are only linked in here: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Screwdriver

For reference, a screenshot: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/File:VehicleMechanics.png

[languid kayak]

Also, https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Mechanics#Recipe_Magazines – previously https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Vehicles_Guide#Types

(it's linked in the infobox) https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Infobox_vehicle

[digital helm]

I think it should at least be mentioned on both pages. Have a brief overview on one and have {{See}} or {{Main}} linking to the one with the bulk of the info. Same with the electrical page, which it seems to be missing from.

[digital helm]

A bit like having a different page for the different types of car windows 🤔 do you think it should be on the lightbulb page instead?

[languid kayak]

Maybe, yeah. I was planning for a quick and easy redirect, but… It's complicated™ 😄

Probably will have to read the whole page and update it, though it's a start 👌 (having them merged)

[languid kayak]

Not sure at this point. On one hand the items are clear: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Vehicle_parts

On the other hand, there's https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Glove_Box too and it's not an item as far as game goes, just a part of a vehicle

[digital helm]

Now I'm wondering if they should stay separate. Car windows all have the same function (other than rolling up and down), whereas headlights are a light source, and taillights only indicate if you're braking. Do they also go on if the headlights are on? I think I'd have to actually read the pages too to determine if it's worth merging or leaving separate

The only similarities are that they're car parts and installed/removed the same way. Whereas their function is completely different

[rain wyvern]

I think it should be added for the windows about that when having the windows wound down (open), that you can shoot (drive-by) and push Zombies out of the way from the door from inside of the vehicle, seeing as you have already written about other functions of the window:

"Having car windows fitted in a multiplayer game prevents other players from accessing the vehicle and potentially hot-wiring it".

It would be good to add what other functions they serve as well.

Just some feedback

[digital helm]

I had assumed that was already there. I'll have to add it tonight, unless you'd rather add it yourself

[rain wyvern]

I would jump on it if I was on my Desktop tbf.

Currently at work on the mobile I am afraid

If it has not been done by the time I get home and have slept I will get on it, no problem.

[languid kayak]

Taillights aren't even separate items in game world; can't be placed and when picked up result in just a regular all-round lighttbulb; might change in the future, but currently it's just a (functional, like you described) element of a car. Even glove box is above that, as it can store stuff and has icon 🤔

[languid kayak]

Yeah, editing on mobile is 😩

But let us guys know if there's need for some improvements on that, though if you are fine with what we have now, I'd rather stay that, It'd be trouble moderating typos from mobile, but maybe I'm just an old gramp ;).

I never really did any wiki editing from mobile, not sure if fandom or other wiki has it better (though with adverts I believe it have to be awful; editing from desktop is laggy for me too even with the source editor).

I know Wikipedia made a new layout, probably better for mobiles too, but me and friend didn't like it.

I know Kirrus has visual editor on his todo too, but for me personally, there's no rush, there's no rush, but do let us know if it's important-ish or not 🙂

[rain wyvern]

I am back home now, when I get a minute I will pop that in

[languid kayak]

Guess I'm not alone then 😛 I really wonder if anyone really do any serious edits from mobile to any wiki 🤷

[restive adder]

We’ve had requests for it, so yes people use it

[languid kayak]

@digital helm I assumed it's a typo as well? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Wooden_Cutting_Board&curid=25111&diff=114859&oldid=114733 😛

[digital helm]

which part?

[languid kayak]

41.78.13 🙂

[digital helm]

ah, yes. I did it once and just copied it everywhere 😆

[languid kayak]

😛

[digital helm]

Thanks. I did it on the plastic one too

[languid kayak]

yeah, fixed it here, but you were faster on the wooden 🙂

I had my second thought seeing you did it there and was like

wait, maybe it was intentional for some reason 😛

I wonder if it's worth tracking establishing a way to track those minor version, we have the big ones being tacked by category already, but the minor might come handy with bulk-updating on patch changes.

I do have a local folder on my PC when I do track each of the change in scripts and lua, so bumping each page should be doable; possibly even automated in future?

I even kept it as a loose idea in TODO: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Issues#High_priority (last point)

[digital helm]

I did see that. My concern is the amount of category pages we could potentially end up with and time spent coming back to change the 1 number all the time. Which really just depends on how many incremental updates there are, and how slow we are.

But, I can see how a big update like 41 changed so much between each incremental update. As far as we know, everything with Version 41 is "up-to-date", which we know for a fact isn't the case.

We'd just have to be on top of creating the category pages, which I assume would be inside the major version category.

Anyway, I need to go now. If you have the time, can you or anyone check if the usage on this page is comprehensive? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Plantain
I hope the calculations are correct 🤞 results seemed logical to me

I'll be presenting the other poultices in a similar way.

I searched just about everywhere for this info. Discord, reddit, youtube, steam discussions, but couldn't find anything. Took me ages just to figure out you had to add a bandage for it to do anything, so I thought it was bugged 😆

[languid kayak]

Same; might be something else that category though, didn't have time to thoroughly think it through

[rain wyvern]

Edits made to https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Car_Window#Usage on being able to roll down the windows and attack from inside of the vehicle

You are welcome to alter any of the wording should you wish, I won't take offence.

[digital helm]

Thank you 🙂

[flat sun]

weren't melee attacks from inside of vehicles disabled in one of the last patches?

[rain wyvern]

Shouldn't do
Are you able to hop in-game and check, weapon and non-weapon for us?

[flat sun]

not immediately but i can check in a bit

[rain wyvern]

[flat sun]

i remember it being disabled because weapons had separate stats inside of vehicles and some of them were super messed up

yeah, no melee attacks in vehicles, but shoves and guns are still allowed

[rain wyvern]

Roger that, I will make the necessary changes

What is the current build?

41.78.16 right?

[flat sun]

ya!

[rain wyvern]

Page updated 🙂

[flat sun]

good work!

[rain wyvern]

Good shout, faound it on the forum by nasKo
"Disabled being able to make melee attacks while inside a vehicle with the window rolled down."

[languid kayak]

Yes, it's on the main page of the wiki too 🙂

(and website)

[languid kayak]

Can make a note about it on wiki, ideally with the link to that, I might do that if I won't forget unless you or someone else does it first :p

[languid kayak]

Ah nvm, it's already there 🙂 I thought of changing it to ref, but can stay the way it is 😛

[rain wyvern]

I had it linked to the patch notes for where it got patched out

Feel free to change it if you need to

[languid kayak]

I just did some minor touchups 😛

Thanks!

[digital helm]

Comfrey Poultice https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Comfrey and Wild Garlic Poultice https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Wild_Garlic added.
Hopefully my maths is accurate.

I'll have to fix the links pointing to Poultice https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Poultice tomorrow.

[languid kayak]

BTW, I saw spanish main page was updated yesterday, forgot to tell that :). Think I'll try updating the icons and maybe update the rest of the pages, but probably during the weekend if time allows

[rain wyvern]

Lovely

I think shoving is still possible though no?

[languid kayak]

I think so? Could be checked to be 100% sure I guess

[rain wyvern]

Testing it now

Tested, you can still shove/ push from inside the vehicle

Both stationary and whilst moving

[languid kayak]

I do wanted to do a cleanup of the vehicle pages and when checking for the sentence case in the style guide, and I realized we already had a section for the file size upload guidelines, so I merged them together. 😛 Feel free to check me @digital helm https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Style_guide#File_uploads

I initially thought of keeping it a more concise bullet points similar to what it was, but couldn't devise a layout for it, maybe I will with a more clearer mind someday, but feel free to change it if you want!

I also didn't touch the size of the tile/furniture yet, I will probably get back into it when I get more into updating icons for the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Seat_Yourself_Furniture as it was a while when I was active there and have to get back to it with a fresh mind 🤔.

As far as style guide goes, I guess we should establish some rules on how item and skill names are written when in the middle of the sentence, that's what brought me there – e.g. here: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Car_Wreck#Burnt_out the "Mechanics" should be lowercase I guess?

[digital helm]

I'll take a proper look at the file size stuff tomorrow. But for the capitalisation it should just follow normal grammar rules.

[languid kayak]

So in this case "mechanics"? I got to check if "Car Wreck" is used anywhere in game; I doubt, so if not I'll move the page too

[rain wyvern]

I will add back the part about shoving out of the window

[languid kayak]

I moved it and Types to Vehicles and am slowly updating the links, though I'm hestistant removing (or rather redirecting) the https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Vehicles_Guide since even after updating the links, there are translated versions of the page 🤔

[languid kayak]

Actually, I updated most of the links, just the regionals are left and redirected the page

[digital helm]

I'm going to be changing all references of "Medicinal Herbs" to be "Medicinal Plants", same with "Flora" to "Wild Plants". As that seems to be how the game recognises them.

Also, for the search focus categories, I'm wondering if they should be a subsection on the Foraging page https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Foraging or have their own dedicated page. And should the dedicated page be a "List page" like this: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Metalwork and this: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Fuel
If so, for consistency, there would also be a dedicated page for "Fruits", "Vegetables", "Stones", "Trash", etc.

Previously, prior to the foraging overhaul, pages like "Medicinal Herbs", "Flora" and "Insects" were only created to simplify the page creation and maintaining those pages, but this can get messy when referring to each item and its unique properties. Also, would a "List page" be redundant since we have https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Items ?

[languid kayak]

I didn't realize we had a Metalwork page, I did update the Fuel one in the past, but it never was really taken care of, though useful for linking I guess…

I'd vote for having separate pages, then we can transclude them to foraging if needed, though I don't really like the list pages too, unless transcluded.

I think we don't have the extensions needed, but in case of Cyberpunk wiki they do seem to create the list pages automatically based on infobox, really handy, e.g., https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Cyberpunk_2077_Attachments_and_Mods or https://cyberpunk.fandom.com/wiki/Cyberpunk_2077_Gigs

Though I like having pages such as https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Bags

[digital helm]

The problem is maintaining these list pages. So indeed creating them based on the infoboxes would be a 'nice to have'.
I think they would need to be in a category like "Item lists", so they're easier to find and check on. I had forgotten the metalwork page was a thing too.

To help with maintenance, and reduce doubling up on updating the same values in multiple locations, we could have a separate list page, which is literally just a list, no other content other than an introduction. Then we transclude that where we need it, like you said. So, we'd have a "List of weapons" page, which is transcluded to "Weapons" and "Items", or for "Medicinal Plants": "List of medicinal plants" would be transcluded to "Foraging", "First Aid", "Items", etc.
There would also be scope for automating updating the values. Something I wanted to do with Weapons, but there's a lot of content between each table, as well there's a lot of values that I don't understand 😆

[languid kayak]

Yeah, though with weapons it seems that one page was enough for the time being 😛 But for medicinal plants these could be transcluded to foraging etc, yeah. Not sure if the "List of" is really needed then?

[digital helm]

I thought of adding the "List of..." in case a page already exists for that. Although thinking about it, we may not end up having that issue. 🤔

[digital helm]

Added Category:WIP articles https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:WIP_articles
Articles are automatically added to this category with Template:Underconstruction https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Underconstruction
There's quite a few here already we'll need to go through and check on. This should help us assist in WIP articles, or fix up abandoned articles, that are normally lost in the Articles in need of improvement category.

Similar categories in site maintenance https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Site_maintenance

[digital helm]

Created a template for foraging distribution to be used on an item page. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Distribution_foraging
I've made it so it's as similar as possible to forageDefinitions.lua to simplify implementing but also automating, if we end up going that far.

It currently only outputs the input in the predefined format. I may add a category parameter so it can lookup the values for that category and incorporate them into the output. I assume the weatherChance and zoneChance for the item and category are added together. I'll have to look into it further.

Example: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Rose_Hips#Foraging

[languid kayak]

Saw you working on it, looks great so far! Goes first step to unifying distrubtion table, especially useful after the new foraging revamp 🙂

BTW @digital helm, one thing I noticed, is that while regional main pages don't show the page title at all (they don't seem use DISPLAYTITLE), the ones I added later do show it; any idea what causes it? I checked https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Languages, https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:Language_code and Template:Translation/xx for the relevant languages and others, but I can't seem to find anything?

Here are the pages affected:
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page/cs
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page/hu
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page/th
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page/uk (it used to have DISPLAYTITLE)
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page/zh-cn

[languid kayak]

It would allow us to avoid using #links in here https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Template:MainPage_WorldObjects - better for tracking which pages are visited, not sure if it's not better for SEO too, and easier for managing translations

(and yeah, it's the new template combining the Items and Tiles with the World objects header 😛)

[languid kayak]

Just realized that {{Img item}} probably needs adding new languages too 🤔. Can it be automated? https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Template%3AImg_item&type=revision&diff=95217&oldid=75693

Template:MainPage WorldObjects

[languid kayak]

We had this: https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Jar_of_Bell_Peppers&curid=6180&diff=115393&oldid=113783 but for others like https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Jar_of_Broccoli it's 30. DaysTotallyRotten is 90 in both cases, but the infobox I believe is 60+30 for rotten = 90, hence the confusion. How should it be? Should it be clarified maybe?

[languid kayak]

Also, is that correct edit or someone messing with us (especially seeing the nickname? 🤔 I genuily don't know if they are subsidiary of Fossoil or not 😛 https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Filling_station&curid=12007&diff=115739&oldid=107451

[digital helm]

I was meaning to add that. There's a list of pages in common.css where heading 1 is hidden. You can add them, otherwise I will when I can.

[digital helm]

I don't remember how they work. I think they're added. I'd have to test it. I think I did test in the past with ice cream which iirc is 1 and 1, but it "melted" in 1 day, which is rotten... Will have to look again

[digital helm]

Troll edit. I'm sure it's mentioned in the tv/radio, unless it's changed. Another thing to lookup

[languid kayak]

Thanks, I'd never look there, updating atm 🙂

Probably the last thing I'll do before sleeping, I documented the rest here: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Translations

[languid kayak]

Yeah, might require to look up and maybe updating (everywhere 😩) else, it'll confuse people. So far this one's different that other pages, as someone updated it just here 🤔

[languid kayak]

done and seems to work fine, thanks!

[digital helm]

Not everywhere. We can just add them in the infobox template, which will cascade

[languid kayak]

The |days_rotten=X in infobox? It needs to be added manually (or by script) for every item based on the DaysTotallyRotten = XX, value in the script, unless you want to adjust it somehow, i.e. assume that we currently have days_rotten = DaysTotallyRotten - DaysFresh. Which brings a question, maybe the same values as in scripts should be used in infoboxes? Same what you did with the foraging template?

[digital helm]

I thought we did have it that way? I know it's been discussed before, I just don't remember what the outcome was. I'll look into how it's done tonight (2 hours)

[languid kayak]

currently it's 60+30 and it code it's DaysFresh = 60, and DaysTotallyRotten = 90, but I'm not 100% sure if it's 60 to stale then 90 to rotten (total of 150) or 60 to stale and 90 to rotten (from start), so +30. I think I checked it once? But yeah, rechecking in debug would be nice; can't do that till evenening though 😛

(I did check yesterday that the values were correct in the 41.78.16 files)

[digital helm]

Gas to Go, a Fossoil company. from a radio advert. It's quoted on the page.

I've reverted the edit.

[digital helm]

You're right. DaysFresh and DaysTotallyRotten are independent values. So, for your example, it's fresh 60 days, then stale for 30 days, before being rotten after 90 days total.
That makes sense for ice-cream, which is fresh for 1 day and rotten after 1 day. So stale is just the state if it's neither fresh nor rotten.

In the infobox it should be:
| days_fresh = DaysFresh
| days_rotten = DaysTotallyRotten

[languid kayak]

Thanks! Could be handy to (automatically) compute the time it'll take for the food to go rotten, assuming it's not in freeze/fridge (something that would be nice to have eventually too I guess, but that's for later), in a fashion like @quartz bear cleaned up for organized recently 😛

[digital helm]

I was thinking that too!

[languid kayak]

The freeze/fridge would have to assume that the food is from start in it, something that rarely happens in game, but well 😛

I woke you 👀 😛

[languid kayak]

Seems I did it wrong on my spreadsheet 😛 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ijaFPhDt8EMaIfoW1ZmpRldnYTIKVvkzmVfXB4kxWbQ/edit#gid=117979849

[digital helm]

Yes. so we did discuss it. It used to add the values together. But it was wrong, so it changed

We found that someone changed the values, so now most of them are wrong and need to be changed manually

Yeah, ice cream is rotten after 1 day, so it can't go stale.

it's been changed on each page manually. So need to change it back on each page manually. Not just in the template.

Example, this should be fresh 4 days, and rotten after 8 days.

I wonder if we should change it from "Days until stale" to "Days fresh". Makes it confusing for the ice cream.

Yeah, that's what it should be. But a lot of food got changed at some point. So we have a mix of the 2. some say 4-4, some say 4-8

They should all be the value in the file. i.e. 4-8. Then we can manipulate it with the template if we wish

Damn 🫤

|burn_minutes= also got changed. Which should be MinutesToBurn

Time until burned should be 70 minutes here

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Pork_Chop

Early this year Kirrus updated it

If you can get it working, and can change those fields, that would save a lot of time.

I'm not sure what you mean.
It can be anything in these categories
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Food
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Perishable_Food
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Vegetables
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Fruit
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Category:Canned_Food

Oh, yeah that's it.

alternative is from the page directly. The item's code should be on the page. https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Canned_Beans#Code

Just may not be up-to-date

[digital helm]

Nice!

Would've been a project for a few weeks

It might not. Some items have multiple item IDs
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Canned_Beans

There shouldn't be. At least not ones with daysFresh and Rotten.

Very few pages like this. But I don't think there are any that can rot or be cooked
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Flora

One way of looking at it

[digital helm]

Looks good! The hours you would've saved... thank you

Good idea.

If it goes wrong, Faalagorn and I can undo all your edits

TODO: change this to Base.PotOfSoup

[digital helm]

@quartz bear somethings not right here
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Pepperoni&curid=22747&diff=116379&oldid=96273
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Salami_Slices&curid=19141&diff=116333&oldid=93247
https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Salami&curid=19139&diff=116331&oldid=91653

[restive adder]

If you have problems with cloudflare dm me, I can configure a bypass user agent for you

[digital helm]

That'll be helpful thanks

No big deal

Nah, we should be able to read that fine

Thanks. I'll have to take a closer look tomorrow. Need to go for now

[languid kayak]

Good job both of you 😄 So, is it all now or something looks a closer look? Noodles are obsolete anyway, and I'll take a look at what I did with the french egg one 🤔

BTW, you only scraped the pages that are after /xx language tag or all of them? I believe some might not be moved properly yet™

Yeah, I saw on the recent list that you fixed the ones mentioned 😛

[languid kayak]

Welp, updating those main pages surely takes a while 😩. Main Page/pt, Main Page/ru, Main Page/th, Main Page/uk, Main Page/zh, Main Page/zh-cn are left to be updated with the two new templates and links, then it's only fixes from there on.

oh yeah, and German, Dutch and Norwegian ones

See https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Translations for details

[sage ruin]

👋 Hi all. What's the policy on wiki links linking directly to external github repos? This section of the modding page https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Modding&action=edit&section=13 links directly out to a few (very useful) repos. I was going to update the last section for adding a custom trait before I realized I wasn't even on the wiki anymore. I'm considering just copying all the information from github into a new wiki page and then making my edits there but wanted to check in here first.

On the other hand there's this section https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Modding&action=edit&section=30 which also contains a space for Occupations, Traits, and Skills but is empty. It might make more sense to edit that instead.

[digital helm]

Hi! No issues so long as it follows the wiki rules https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Rules

Best place for new info is probably beneath the "under construction" notice. Feel free to follow that red link to create a new page for occupations, traits and skills. @languid kayak or I will come through and tidy any issues up 🙂

[ornate linden]

I'm sorry if this is the wrong channel to ask about this, but, on the Tiles page https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Tiles#Curtain_function

Every other tile in the game is listed and shown, which is great for me because I like making my bases look pretty! :)
But I noticed that all the curtains aren't on display like everything else is.
Will there be plans to add those onto the page? I'm not the best with coding, so I'm a bit clueless with these things.

Thank you! And sorry, again, if it's the wrong channel.

[digital helm]

This is the right channel 🙂
It was on the to do some time ago, but more important things have been coming up. @languid kayak did most of the other pages and has been planning on coming back to finish off curtains. If anyone else wants to get started on it, feel free to

[languid kayak]

Yeah, no worries spam filter should allow for that too nowadays, but if not, ping me or vaileasys.

About the modding page, it needs merging, Aiteron started an overhaul but didn't finish it so it's kinda split into two now :P. It's on the wiki's (read: my) TODO 😛 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Issues#Medium_priority

[languid kayak]

Yeah, there are plans listed on here: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Seat_Yourself_Furniture#Job_board

I added most of the tiles before Lousiville, so some are missing, but the Curtains were, mirrors and other wall-hanging items, as well as windows, doors and floor tiles are missing, I planned to add them back then, but then got carried with other things – I'll get back to it hopefully, but if you want to, you can always try making a table based on the previous ones! You can leave the images out, I'll hopefully get back to adding it – it's not that hard, but requires extracting the images with TileZed and then merging them with a graphic tool, I use GIMP.

If you do get to that, here are the new guidleines for naming the files: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Style_guide#File_uploads

There are other tools for exporting images too, but TileZed is probably the best bet as it's officially mained by TIS 🙂 It can be downloaded as a part of project zomboid modding tools for Windows https://steamdb.info/app/380880/info/ or can be compiled from source for other platforms since it's open source here https://github.com/timbaker/tiled

The option to extract images is a part of it (forgot what was it called).

debug mode is helpful with documenting tiles too, if you (or anyone) want to contribute, feel free to add yourself to the project too, might help organizing things better 🙂

[ornate linden]

Okay! I'll look into it and do my best. :) Thank you for all of your hard work!

[digital helm]

@languid kayak

Figure out a way to keep how many pages are in each language, User:Vaileasys should have template for that?
https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Translations#Job_board
Not sure what template you were thinking of here, but I like the idea. We may be able to achieve this with the Languages template. We can add a function to add the page to a category based on the subpage/language code. Then just use the {{PAGESINCATEGORY:categoryname}} magic word for the count. We could also then add the relevant count to the main page for each language. Rather than "there are 2,902 articles", we could say "there are 2,100 articles in the English wiki", etc.

[languid kayak]

true, sounds easy enough, I just didn';t think through it, maybe I'll check today if not, during the weeknd I guess 🙂

[languid kayak]

it had lots of updates, but no one bumped the version 😄 https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Controls&action=history

[languid kayak]

I did plan to bump them eventually, after reading and taking care, but yeah, always something else pops 😛

[languid kayak]

If you ever get to getting this to work, feel free to update the counts in the table here: https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Translations first 🙂

[languid kayak]

Yeah, that's the plan, though not sure if all pages are properly categorized yet. Also not sure how heavy is that template to be invoked multiple times to sum it up 🤔

[restive adder]

I can create a bypass if you can alter your user agent or http headers

Ahh

We do cache heavily for logged out users, not sure how to config MediaWiki to cache a template itself, though it does some automatically, into memcache

[languid kayak]

Okay, I ported over https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page/de to a new template, but it lacks translations. Tomorrow I'll probably do the Dutch and Norwegian ones, and that'll be all (I did the two chinese today and others before that), see https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Translations for progress, but I'll probably add some translations too from the game files when I'm done. But now going to sleep 😴

[languid kayak]

you mean categories? Listed as "high" 😛 https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Issues#High_priority

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/PZwiki:Project_Navigation_and_Categories

[languid kayak]

ohh, that one, sorry. Yeah, that should be doable

[digital helm]

Assuming this is with this extensions https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TextExtracts
It's suppose to be bundled with mediawiki now, but we don't have it. I'm guessing it was missed when updating? https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Special:Version

[languid kayak]

it used to have it in the past though?

Seems not? Random message back from 2021 #pzwiki_editing message, though not sure if Discord doesn't refresh the previews 🤔

[lucid reef]

how to make a page

nvm

i think im banned

[restive adder]

Why? We ban very few people

[lucid reef]

i think there was a mistake so i corrected it in a bad way

cause in #tweets it says brand wars for fossoil and gas 2 go but it says gas 2 go is owned by fossoil as you can see these statements contradict eachother

[restive adder]

What was your username?

[lucid reef]

doesnt matter

nasko confirmed i was wrong

[languid kayak]

Hey! Thanks for joining here, what edit that you wanted to do? You were partially blocked by @digital helm from editing gas station pages and templates over this edit which we wondered if it was a troll one https://pzwiki.net/w/index.php?title=Filling_station&diff=115739&oldid=107451 based on the short discussion here #pzwiki_editing message but seeing how you settled it out in #general_chat message I guess it's good to lift the ban? Especially seems like it won't allow you to create new pages. I could do that, though if you can wait a little in the meantime, I'll wait for @digital helm to do that when he wakes up 😛

[lucid reef]

thanks man

am i allowed to write pages on stuff that happens in this sevrer?

ah alright

i wanted to make a small page on somthing me and a few others have been talking ab

yeah but i understand

[languid kayak]

What do you mean? Pages in wiki or pages elsewhere? This chat is public for anyone with the rights to see, but other than that, a wiki is about official game stuff only mostly, generally you can write stuff on your user page but… there are places better suited for personal stuff than wiki 😛

[lucid reef]

yeah it wont be allowed its fine

[lucid reef]

hello huys

guys

i have found a new gas station to go onto filling station wiki

it is located there

how do i make a new segmant on the wiki

[lucid reef]

well i made my edit

but my images done show

dont

yup

could you help?

i got the iamges

thanks man

still doesnt show

hm

still nothin

what about the map view?

oh

huh strange

it shows up on one browser

and not on the other

ty

ah

i need to fix

sm

i put location as louisville highway and i learned the real name is dixiehwy

ik

thanks for the help

[languid kayak]

you can force cache of the pages by adding ?action=purge at the end too if for some reason it didn't refresh, else it's just cache that needs time to refresh, especially with images, it usually takes a few hours or so

[lucid reef]

ty man

[languid kayak]

Well, known for ages for any mediawiki though 😄

[spiral ivy]

Hey y'all, i just figured out stuff that's been mystifying players and modders

not sure where to put it but

• Dirtiness of clothes doesn't seem to affect dirtiness of the body (but it does affect infection chance of wounds) (70% sure about this one)
• If no clothing is found when adding dirt to a body part, there's a 0.05 "bonus" to how dirty the body gets
• dirt is only added while running, sprinting, while hot (or very hot), falling to knees or running through puddles. While running through trees dirt is only added to clothes

[languid kayak]

Might indeed be suited on the wiki; not sure if we have page for that; dirt was never really expanded upon, but it should be documented, especially as it might be more important if first aid gets any overhaul as currently (non-zombie) infections are often easy to shurug

[digital helm]

For now I'd say either the Clothing https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Clothing or Health https://pzwiki.net/wiki/Health pages. Add a new section if there's no existing place for it. Would you happen to know if it affects the rate of bandages getting dirty? That would also be nice to have documented with it.

[worldly remnant]

i've tried my hand at improving the legacy NPCs article further but i'm kind of stumped at how to get more information for it

https://pzwiki.net/wiki/NPCs_(Legacy)

[restive adder]

The why they were removed link is broken. Might find more on the game forums? theindiestone.com

[worldly remnant]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/108600/discussions/0/405692224235441345/

is there a way to get access to the beta 2013 version of the game that had NPCs?

if i could play it myself i might be able to add some more detail to the pzwiki article

[restive adder]

https://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php?/topic/2064-older-versions/

[worldly remnant]

needs Desura

[restive adder]

Might be able to hack it, not sure. May be guides in the thread somewhere, but we don’t provide support for them. https://youtu.be/hheE07aYzqY

Iirc, the npc mod is built on the old npc code, it was just disabled and not removed

[worldly remnant]

one staff member gave a supposedly working workaround with the username "[e-mail]" and the password "game"

but it... doesn't work

[restive adder]

Yah, that worked till the server died

[worldly remnant]

ahhh yeah then it wont work period damn

[restive adder]

Ie desura’s server

Might be a way to hack it, that’s not the only YouTuber to have gotten it to run iirc

[worldly remnant]

any version with legacy npcs

so i can see if i can find any info to add to the pzwiki article