Yea think so was trying to google my CP question
#classic-discussion
bleak badger
desert hazel
my latest check where around 5% lower dps. that's quite some. been a while though so my statement might not be too accurate
but I think its around that value
probably worse
bleak badger
Hmm ok but i will try it out abit and look over some logs myself and then reconsider my decision :))
desert hazel
Just simmed again. you end up 10% less actually
with current gear
no matter what, you will either lose on Opportunity or DW/Blade flurry, both sucks ass (losing opportunity is a bit better choice I think)
it's just not worth it
SF is a valid option for imp. EA
but not as dagger and only if you can keep up those WBs all the time
marble dune
@desert hazel that guild ganked two of our raiders while they were getting WCB on top of org, it was vengeance π
the dude went on our disc and posted an apology after that clip lol
successfully extorted 2 titans out of him too hahaha
desert hazel
Hahaha wtf that sounds way too serious tho π
Bet you guys pissed yourself laughing about the story
autumn sierra
Hey all, Iβve been trying to find a good sim for classic but canβt seem to find one, does anyone know of one? My main question at this time is with Pugio in main hand do I go dragonfang blade or Core hound OH, CH stats are better but I wasnβt sure if the higher dmg of dfb made up for it. I also wanted to look at numbers of ES or Renetakis paired with DFT in a mixed DM/bloodfang set. Thanks for the help!
plush vigil
If you're horde, core hound OH
If you're alliance then when fully world buffed + kings dragonfangblade can come slightly ahead
The classic rogue discord has 3 different sim sheets, I personally use Simon's sheet to sim stuff
fleet glade
desert hazel
Hi @autumn sierra
as retrog said, there are 3 common ones. Simons is dope. my go-to sim is Garcia's though, I can strongly suggest both of them.
If only vael dagger and CHT are available, go for CHT as horde, vael or cht as alliance.
I suggest to go for the AQ20 dagger though. I run Deaths Sting + AQ20 3 set, the dagger is still better than any other dagger except pugio without the 3set
desert hazel
http://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1VSxFOc6eFYyoF6X19SQEKd12CJriIdXl
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14bmOiIIj7pMueT5ROE5qVIAPvlu04Ug0xz6CMCJSqiY/edit?usp=sharing
first link is Garcia's
send link is Simonize
autumn sierra
@desert hazel ok cool thanks! I will take a look at both. and yeah for sure that setup is definitely something I should try out as well, maybe if I can fit the 3 set in I can just main hand pugio and offhand aq20. I know the aq20 3 set is good but I wasn't convinced that it was stronger than having cloak of concentrated hatred/fallen god and exalted norzdormu ring but I hadn't looked into it in too much detail so thanks for the tip!
signal ember
I run the pugio/aq20 setup, was about 10 dps difference with dragonblade in offhand
all 3 daggers with 15 agi enchant
modern wing
hey guys, short question regarding weapons - im mainly pvping and i have no clue about min maxing whatsoever but im a bit confused about my 2 daggers - fang of the faceless and the pugio - fang of the faceless in the mh has more min and more max dmg (better or?) and why has it more min and more max dmg? because of the speed? because the RAW damage is higher on the pugio
desert hazel
faceless: 66-123 // pugio: 72-134
Pugio better
generally, faceless is a good pvp dagger
good stats, slow (thus high max dmg for its lvl)
but against the pugio it's out
I also suggest to go for +5 weap dmg for pvp focus on your MH dagger
it makes the pugio 77 - 139
simplified, you can always just pick the one with the highest max dmg for dagger pvp
modern wing
@desert hazel yeah, thats why i was so confused, because pugio has better min and max damage, but my menu shows me higher min and max when fang of the faceless is in the MH
modern wing
yes
let me show you one sec
this is fang of faceless MH
and pugio MH
@desert hazel
desert hazel
thanks. maybe its cause of my lazy sunday mood but I dont really get it lol
doesnt matter from what angle I look at it, I can't find a scnenario where swapping those from pugio MH to fang MH would be better
modern wing
okay, so i shouldnt look at the char screen stats? and just the raw weapon stats
desert hazel
seriously, this is weird and doesnt make any sense in my book. pugio is a clearly better MH even though it's closer as one might think in PvP
I suggest to run pugio
you can anytime run tests
as I've never had faceless I cannot test it
I currently run DS + AQ20 dagger
modern wing
Okay, will do that, thanks for your input π
bronze crystal
technical question, vs lvl 63 mobs, when dual wielding, the yellow hit cap is 9%, the white one 28% (assuming 0 expertise) : is this white hit cap only applying to the left hand or to both hands ?
from my understanding, as long as you dual wield, you have 28% miss chances for white hits (both weapons)
which means, when you have something like 20% hit (including expertise), you get 8% miss on both weapon swings (left/right), correct or incorrect ?
bronze crystal
where is @desert hazel when we need him π
desert hazel
Correct. Left and right :)
desert hazel
Ah but its 24% not 28%
bronze crystal
(that is what I was using until now)
desert hazel
No you are right. The reddit page is right
I messed up the premise
Lvl 63 boss mob
No weap skill
gentle hound
With your current amount of AP a slower Weapon (faceless) will do more dmg per swing than a faster weapon (pugio)
AP increases the DPS of your weapon
desert hazel
This is more about understanding the character screen than actual damage I suppose. I have no clue abour the character screen tbh. I work with the full calculation strings.
How is this calculated @gentle hound ?
gentle hound
It is however not worth the trade-off, Pugio in MH is much better. You will lose a lot of white damage
real pivot
Hello, i have a question for the choose of my weapon i have perdition blade et brutality lame please
for pve BB + perdition is the best, but for pvp and ambush perdi + bb is good or better the first choice ? thanks for your help π
desert hazel
Seems like a rather useless 'stat'
Hello, i have a question for the choose of my weapon i have perdition blade et brutality lame please
for pve BB + perdition is the best, but for pvp and ambush perdi + bb is good or better the first choice ? thanks for your help π
@real pivot PB + BB can work in pvp. BB isnt the worst offhand for dagger pvp
gentle hound
DMG per Swing = (Weapon DPS + DPS from AP) * Weapon Speed
desert hazel
DMG per Swing = (Weapon DPS + DPS from AP) * Weapon Speed
@gentle hound ah. Ok silly
@real pivot why do you think BB + PB is better in PvE?
gentle hound
If you hover over AP you'll see how much DPS you will get from that
desert hazel
Im on my couch mate :D
Ok thanks anyway Kally. Just another rather dangerous stat in the standard charactersheet
Blizz was really bad with these things. Hope for retailers they offer better transparency
gentle hound
This is a reason why slow MH is so important. Many Skills are affected by the raw weapon damage.
desert hazel
Sure. Its just misleading to isolate that in the screen
They do similar stuff with hit for example. And give no hint at critcap
That makes many people lose tons of damage
real pivot
@desert hazel beacause nice damage the bb for main hand and nice dps the perdi for off hand
desert hazel
If you think BB/perd with sword spec beats perd with a blue oh dagger and dagger spec, I call this wrong with just calculating this in my head. Not even simming needed
real pivot
worst off hand for dagger :/ ty @desert hazel
gentle hound
DMG = 3.7 * (76.1+60.8) = 506.9
real pivot
@gentle hound it's right for bb /perdi is better than perdi/bb in pve ?
if u use simply word please
i am french π
desert hazel
Charactersheet stats should help making decisions. If they mislead, its ridiculous
gentle hound
@real pivot my answer is related to another question π
real pivot
yes
desert hazel
And its not a nice one :D
real pivot
beauce deathjester say no if i understand lol
desert hazel
Do you have aclg, muggers belt or distracting dagger?
real pivot
me ?
desert hazel
Yes
real pivot
i have only one dagger is perdition xD
desert hazel
If your 2 best weapons are perditions and BB i highly recommend to get distracting dagger drom DM:W as offhand and your dmg will go up just by that
BB is a mediocre mainhand at best
Its a mediocre offhand too actually
real pivot
i dont think lol
bb is not very good
but it's a good weapon xD
say that's at war lol
desert hazel
Its a transition weapon for people having only that and/or really want to strife for swords no matter what
If you want to go for swords you should opt to get an upgrade asap. CTS, ripper or even Ony sword
desert hazel
Well... its hard to argue if you insist :) if you give me your full gear (in a character gear planner for example) I could tell you in numbers
Not today though
PvE is rather easy to calculate and proof
PvP is way more relative
real pivot
thank you is very cool from you
i want to know if perdi/bb is viable on pvp ^^
*i was to know :p
desert hazel
My french is a bit slow but I could work with your gear in french is that helps ^^
Perdi / bb works in pvp
It sucks in pve
desert hazel
Its far from top but it works
raven snow
I really have no idea at what EU Realm to start playing, i want to see people leveling and stuff
I was playing on Golemagg but it was empty, never found a group for dungeon like Deadmines
plush vigil
Zandalar tribe is ok for leveling if you're alliance
Many boosters but also a good ammount of leveling dungeon groups
crystal sluice
Hey classic folks. With the new expansion coming up on live we're just trying to make sure that things are running well in Discord. I know y'all don't often get a ton of attention so I just wanted to say if there are things that could be improved please feel free to ping me. (Don't worry deathjester, I haven't forgotten about your comments.)
hushed laurel
only thing i can think of is making a separate channel for pvp, since both become "actual" content in BC with arenas.
signal ember
π·
Grieving my own faction. But that guild is filled with gold seller so fuck them.
desert hazel
well thats the whole purpose of that event anyway
i killed way more of my own faction there
signal ember
I showed up to the next one with 4 of my guild mates and eaglewood whispered me fuck you asshole then blocked me.
desert hazel
imo naxx too soon. for dad guilds like mine this is really bad
I mean, I look forward to both the scourge invasion and naxx but we have too many unprepared people
rancid aurora
5points into camo or 3 points into camo and 2 into elusive for w-pvp?
desert hazel
5points into camo or 3 points into camo and 2 into elusive for w-pvp?
@rancid aurora mind showing the full build(s)?
signal ember
You got prep for a reason, so I'd just go full camo
assuming you're daggers, I can snipe clothies and then stealth shortly after.
hushed laurel
@desert hazel iirc, this isn't really that far off the actually gap between naxx and AQ in vanilla, though I could be wrong
And naxx isn't that bad if people aren't prepared, as long as you are AQish geared, you can do most bosses and get gear for the rest. FrR from most bosses and the AD, besides the essences of water
desert hazel
you might be right. I was banned that time π
hushed laurel
Hah, imagine getting banned before BC
desert hazel
I was banned early in vanilla, around BWL
was part of the team creating the first teleport hack
hushed laurel
I installed some shitty speed hack and ran at x10 times slower speed everywhere for shits and giggles. God I was stupid
desert hazel
and after a few weeks we got too lazy using the sony rootkit to prevent blizz from detecting us
hahaha
yeah why not π
I had a rather good relationship with blizz and it didnt end at that point but I left them no choice than banning us
all my guild back then was banned except my wife
we're still the oldest german server guild, she kept it alive π
hushed laurel
Lawl, yah, I never got upset about it, obviously deserved it
desert hazel
that's the spirit
funny enough I killed Kel in vanilla with my rogue. a friend gifted me the account (had a lvl 13 rogue on it, which I deleted) at the start of naxx and a guild remembered my from before I was banned and too me to naxx when a guy couldnt join. exactly that raid they first time killed Kel and luckily I was there. died after seconds...with pvp spec but have at least had the experience of Naxx in vanilla even though the circumstances were super whack
signal ember
desert hazel
looks like me irl
brazen hamlet
where i can find what coven is best for rogues ;;;
rough quiver
Definitely not in the WoW Classic channel.
pine trench
Heya guys, is pugio better OH than ZG sword for sword rogue?
plucky nymph
Yeep.
bronze crystal
Hello all, if you are not human, what is better in offhand vs lvl 63 mobs : maladath or iblis ?
plucky nymph
Likely more than that.
desert hazel
I just now simmed full sword spec + BiS P5 sword, with both offhands
and full sword spec + BiS P6 sword, with both offhands
both times, it was 9.53 dps difference
Garcia Sim, Undead Race, regular world buffs + consumables, Lvl 63 default boss options
plucky nymph
It's also a megaslapper on trash π
desert hazel
THAT makes it a lot better, I agree
bronze crystal
so, the weapon swing + stats gain of iblis is better than the +4 weapon skill of maladath (that allows to ignore 10% glancing penalty), interesting
plucky nymph
The penalty only seems like a large amount, it's not.
desert hazel
Imagine a roughly 1 minute fight, 40 glancing blows, avg white hit dmg 500 to simplify things
The difference between Iblis and Mala glancing blow dmg would be 2'000 dmg BECAUSE of the glancing penalty difference (in this scenario 50 per glancing)
it's not nothing but not as big as you might think as iblis has really nice stats, speed and dps
bronze crystal
Thanks I love you guys π΅οΈ β€οΈ π
drowsy flare
w/ my sims i get iblis around 15-17 dps depending on some gearing
toxic mantle
as a sword spec rogue, would my dps be lowered if i put a dagger in my off hand? i noticed that the talent says "gives you a 5% chance to get an extra attack on the same target after dealing damage with your SWORD" , so like does that only work for one sword or does it effect both?
sick sandal
hey guys, which darkmoon trinket is the best for us
desert hazel
w/ my sims i get iblis around 15-17 dps depending on some gearing
hi. what sim? what gear? what conditions? what race?
desert hazel
as a sword spec rogue, would my dps be lowered if i put a dagger in my off hand?...
both
drowsy flare
ud, r14 mh, near p5 bis
desert hazel
hey guys, which darkmoon trinket is the best for us
Elementals Deck
sick sandal
thank you sir
desert hazel
ud, r14 mh, near p5 bis
instant poison instead sharpening stone then?
my sims are with sharpening. obviously, iblis has an even higher effect on instant poison
so yes, with instant poison, you're right, we're talking over 15 dps difference in favor of iblis
somber maple
@toxic mantle Swing is always done by MH, proc gets triggered by each hand that's holding a sword.
frail spade
Why would anyone use the dark moon trinket
Also in nax we use special scourge sharpening stones
signal ember
@frail spade you ideally want to use the healing trinket from DMF on Sapp to help out with raid healing.
frail spade
Maybe but I doubt itβll be that good
signal ember
It add up in long run and your healers will love you.
plucky nymph
Yeah that 10HPS, oobby.
frail spade
Depends how long your fight is
cloud belfry
It'll be more useful for loatheb than sapphiron
plucky nymph
ye
raven snow
can i start queueing for pvp as soon as i hit 60 and do good or should i grab gear first?
yeah but honor rank takes until tuesday to update
stable axle
my bad forgot this is classic lol
when i started, i really felt the need to have at the very least epic mount
aside from that, u can still do helpful moves
raven snow
so i'm gonna have to wait after getting the kills lol
well yeah, i can CC
but i'd rather kill people
stable axle
just get ur dungeon bis, spam 20s, and when that's done u can do ok againts alts i suppose. just avoid those warlords lol
cloud belfry
everything is slower in classic
frail spade
Calculated
toxic mantle
i'm having a hard time deciding whether swords or daggers would be better for me, based off the weps i have... swords=brutality blade/mirah's song and daggers=qiarji sacrificial dagger and core hound tooth
drowsy flare
your daggers are gonna do more damage
frail spade
Yea you gotta talent into those to reduce it
Talent trees made things very unique so there was a lot noticeable difference between specs
raven snow
yeah i noticed that
there's a lot of buffs to certain abilities, but occasionally there's something unique
like "relentless strikes" for assassination
desert hazel
classic talent trees are kinda cool. you'll get used to the rather slow stealth. for pvp you spec into stealth speed typically, so it's less of a nuisance
for pve you usually dont need stealth anyway, with few exceptions
desert hazel
i bet its hard going from retail to classic these days but you'll get rewarded if you overcome the first troubles
yes, it's minor
stealth is really strong in classic pvp
raven snow
yeah i'm coming from retail
level 25 and i'm having a bit of fun
there are some minor annoyances though, like poisons having charges
desert hazel
classic does not offer so many comforts. it's really raw. but classic is the true social media with kill function π it's really fun if you like hooking up with people. if you just want to play for yourself, probably not so much
plucky nymph
Also there are things that are immune to poisons
raven snow
yeah
desert hazel
poison charges are less of a problem in endgame really
desert hazel
things...like certain twin bosses π
plucky nymph
Buncha stuff in Molten Core, etc.
raven snow
me?
plucky nymph
We stopped last week.
desert hazel
we have 3 tanks with TF and stopped a while back. might force them back π
desert hazel
depends on the build. for the typical combat leveling build you dont rely much on stealth
raven snow
so i'm pretty much level 27
for stealth purposes
which is good cause before i got caught a LOT
desert hazel
but play around, you're doing it right imo. doesnt make sense to just blindly follow guides and shit. learn the game. there's more to it than just copy/pasting
raven snow
i use stealth for my opener
desert hazel
yes
plucky nymph
If you are Combat stealth is extremely bad due to the speed and how weak stealth is by default.
desert hazel
you'll get used to the distance you can have before actually stealthing
raven snow
sneak behind -> garrote -> sinister strike (apparently mutilate doesn't exist)
plucky nymph
Also don't level as SIN in TBC O _O or do, w/e.
raven snow
there's some inconsistencies i don't get
you know how rupture is an assassination ability?
plucky nymph
Oh like that, sure sure.
desert hazel
that doesnt matter though. you're not locked out of stuff other than through talents
raven snow
pretty sure i saw a thing in the SUBTLETY tree that buffed it
desert hazel
rogue leveling is not so fast but rather safe and kinda fun. you can pvp while leveling too which is nice.
raven snow
maybe i was seeing things
desert hazel
rupture and garrote are not really strong for leveling
desert hazel
i use both for pvp sometimes but even there, bleed is not your best friend in classic
desert hazel
yeah, CS/Kidney will be your friend as it reduces downtimes
desert hazel
i really suggest to follow some easy quest sword rewards as your mainhand has a big influence on leveling speed and comfort
and get to flurry strikes asap
desert hazel
ah blade flurry
i mean
lol
mhm
dagger leveling can be fun
it's WAY slower though
raven snow
blade flurry requires 20 points in combat though
raven snow
i'd have to respec when i hit 30 and put EVERY POINT into combat
desert hazel
combat is the name of the game when leveling
if you find daggers fun
play daggers
it works
raven snow
i will have to go combat at some point though for hit
desert hazel
it accomodates you to endgame daggers if you want to stay daggers. I play dagger since 60 and never changed back
raven snow
nice
but i'm wondering one thing
how should i get there?
improved gouge or lightning reflexes?
desert hazel
60? keep calm, quest and join some boosts if they offer it for free
raven snow
no i mean to precision
raven snow
yeah
desert hazel
but thats me π i'm a pvp boi
raven snow
i was thinking improved gouge for emergencies
desert hazel
imp. gouge in classic is super strong
raven snow
because enemies break free when i begin to run away from them
desert hazel
5.5 s gouge gives you many chances in pvp to actually restealth
raven snow
and i usually die
raven snow
especially against stronger enemies (which i have a feeling i'll be fighting against)
plucky nymph
I find your in my raid with impGouge and ima be sad.
raven snow
these enemies i have to kill for a quest are 3 levels higher than me
plucky nymph
But for PVP it's dope.
raven snow
classic really doesn't hold any punches back, does it?
desert hazel
I find your in my raid with impGouge and ima be sad.
i made some special deals :X
plucky nymph
It's really dumb in some ways.
raven snow
i mean it's fun
desert hazel
classic is fun
I think it would be even more fun if we all weren't spoiled brats π
raven snow
the difficulty gives me a sense of pride when i complete a quest
also is cheap shot good?
desert hazel
yes
raven snow
it gives two combo points
raven snow
oh god it costs as much energy as ambush
desert hazel
overall, CS/KS is a really good way to play most mobs
raven snow
the day i discovered kidney shot in retail...
desert hazel
i prefered to peel and keep my downtimes low
raven snow
my life changed
desert hazel
if you're leveling with someone, its a different story
raven snow
that's why i have the defias 2set
desert hazel
dont mind much any gear other than mainhand
spending time to get gear during leveling
overall slows you down
raven snow
for mainhand i have naraxis' fang
raven snow
13.7 dps
desert hazel
only mainhand matters really
raven snow
why does weapon dps suck?
desert hazel
for MG dagger, go for slow speed and good max dmg
raven snow
this is a level 22 dagger, it shouldn't be doing 13 dps
desert hazel
well just compare to level standards
with 29 you could try getting torturing poker
but its hard to get
desert hazel
on your level there's Toxic Revenger in Gnome
thats a really nice mainhand
and decent drop rate
if you find a grp carrying you
raven snow
ya i could put a group together
desert hazel
go for it
it'll carry you for a few levels
you're too low for gnome
they need to boost you
raven snow
oh it's a 29 dungeon
desert hazel
have you done shadow fang keep?
final boss drops Meteor Shard
would be an upgrade
but as I said, not really worth grinding for gear if you dont really enjoy it
raven snow
isn't that in horde territory?
raven snow
oh it's right next to hillsbrad
yeah i've been on that path before
that's rough right there
desert hazel
as I said, I wouldnt do that but try to give you options π
desert hazel
find a guild π
raven snow
yeah i need to
also you know what's really fun?
pickpocketing
there's just something about it that's so awesome
desert hazel
XD
i just had a macro since day 1
never thought about it again
it's probably even super bad, just bound it to my opener
so i always pickpocket
and make some extra
raven snow
oh yeah i have a pickpocket macro in retail, where you just put your mouse over an enemy and hit a button
don't have to click them
desert hazel
#showtooltip Pick Pocket
/targetenemy [no harm][dead]
/cast Pick Pocket
/cleartarget
thats the one i have written the first day in classic
raven snow
nice
desert hazel
but not what I use
raven snow
mine was just /cast [@mouseover] pickpocket
desert hazel
I only ever use this one
#showtooltip Cheap Shot
/cast Pick Pocket
/cast Cheap Shot
raven snow
lets you get a lot of stuff in seconds
desert hazel
and its so fucking simple XD
raven snow
yeah
desert hazel
but it constantly fed me with boxes for lockpicking and with some extra layers of loot
just ignore it early on
raven snow
lol yeah
desert hazel
its not worth to loot
raven snow
eh, i like them
desert hazel
I mean, if you automatically pickpocket when opening
raven snow
gives extra income and healing potions
desert hazel
the humanoid mobs have 2 layers of loot
the regular loot and your pickpocket loot
you lose to much time to loot the 2nd layer
plucky nymph
Yeah but I fart health potions π
raven snow
hey i just realized how i could make some extra money
i could get health pots from pickpocketing, and sell them on the AH
desert hazel
π
yeah people like me use around 30+ a day
but they typically dont make you rich :X
raven snow
i mean warriors are popular, right?
desert hazel
yeah
raven snow
everyone needs more warriors
raven snow
yet they have almost no self healing
raven snow
i've tried a bunch of classes lol
this and warlock are the only ones i've leveled really far
desert hazel
about healing potions. I was just getting some to prep for pvp
raven snow
oh my goodness
desert hazel
this is my bank char for regular consumables
raven snow
i'm starting to get almost a silver per pickpocket
so i'm making a gold here and there
frail spade
if you think thatβs a lot blood fury that just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to classic PvP consumes
desert hazel
yep
raven snow
well my main concern, deathjester, is that abilities are expensive
rank 3 garrote is 1 gold
raven snow
WHY?
desert hazel
you need it
raven snow
jesus
desert hazel
and naxx is getting worse π
raven snow
yeah i hear you need a lot of consumables for naxx
desert hazel
i have one acc for frost resi potions only. i think we have 900
frail spade
I might quit classic tho once I clear nax
raven snow
you won't believe how much 60 spells cost
frail spade
sadly game is pretty dead
desert hazel
our server is very active
raven snow
5.40 gold each
desert hazel
i spend 200 / week for respeccing
frail spade
If your spending 1k a week your bad with money
desert hazel
i spend around 1k and earn around 1k
raven snow
i've spent a lot more in retail
desert hazel
depends on the week really
raven snow
on transmogs
frail spade
depends how many characters
frail spade
1g I classic is like 1k in retail
raven snow
i want to save up for mounts but i'm addicted to collecting transmogs
the jewelcrafting mounts... my god
anyway
desert hazel
i have no clue about retail. quit after tbc
raven snow
by that logic i have 3k gold proxii
desert hazel
played a while in wotlk but not for long
raven snow
it's all going down the toilet the next few levels though
desert hazel
without daytrading, I'd be broken af in classic π fortunately people dont understand the basics of trade and/or dont care, so it's quite easy to stay alive without any grinding/farming
desert hazel
things will change
raven snow
also are larger bags a good investment?
desert hazel
get to 60, where a new game starts. I think thats the same in retail with new expansions
raven snow
my bags are full of shit
desert hazel
can't help you unless you're on transcendence-eu
raven snow
no i'm just asking in general lol
desert hazel
i meant because of the bags π
raven snow
ah
desert hazel
could have given you some 16 space ones
raven snow
eh it's good
desert hazel
but in classic that only works on the same server
raven snow
got a heavy bag and a brown leather satchel
desert hazel
:X
raven snow
i had an herb bag, thinking i was gonna use it lol
just led to more frustration
also why do bleeds feel so much shorter than in retail?
they just seem to tick a lot faster
TBC gold
raven snow
wow
plucky nymph
oh hey more gold
Anyway, don't think about making gold while leveling unless you see something that ACTUALLY makes some gold.
raven snow
yeah
plucky nymph
eg. leather, meats, cloth, etc.
plucky nymph
I guess you could try to make gold so you can get your level 40 mount?
raven snow
yeah
plucky nymph
If you are on Stalagg I can front you what you don't have if you get there.
Pay me back if you want.
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
raven snow
yeah but i'd imagine rogues have access to farms many other classes do not
there's a farm in AQ20 that only rogues can do
desert hazel
^ this
plucky nymph
At this point I don't even farm anything other than SM chests/herbs like I have for a trillion years.
That and controlling the Tea market.
raven snow
nice
plucky nymph
But you've a bunch of options and none of them REQUIRE stealth unless you are pickpocketing.
Which is some mindnumbing shit.
desert hazel
yeah, as soon as you have some money spare, focus to control one or two commodities. makes you rich
raven snow
ah nice
plucky nymph
IF you wanna play the AH, equally mindnumbing in some regards.
raven snow
yeah no ty
desert hazel
but less time consuming π
plucky nymph
Typically yeah.
raven snow
i'm never good at that though
plucky nymph
Feel like it's on the far end of the activity <-> afk scale though.
Well when you see that Swiftthistle for whatever reason sells for 50% the price of Tea, and people don't just make their own fucking Tea.
You rake them over the coals.
raven snow
seems expensive to me but ok
plucky nymph
We try to keep the cost of the leaf down closer to 1g but yeah it can get up there.
desert hazel
its one of the commodities that jump a lot
desert hazel
today, on my server, firewater moved between 7g and 24g a piece
raven snow
even if an enemy is 3 levels higher than you
desert hazel
luckily I jumped on them :X
raven snow
firewater?
raven snow
well i have to for a quest
desert hazel
firewater is a consumable
not even the best in its slot
gought 120 for 7-9g and sold them for 20-24g
daytrading is really strong and even more before new content
people go nuts, dunno why
raven snow
overpreparation
plucky nymph
Scrambling to buy the stuff they will need because they didn't prepare.
desert hazel
not getting prepared for naxx is going to screw you during the phase
we're a dad guild but I spent quite some energy to get our people ready
raven snow
ah
desert hazel
still some slackers :X
raven snow
also if i targeted things 1-2 levels below me it'd take ages to get quests done lmao
plucky nymph
Naxx is also going to be very easy if you are prepare and are not poopoo.
desert hazel
we are poopoo
I expect us to get fucked a lot
we have the biggest range in quality i've ever seen in any game within one guild/clan π
desert hazel
we go from keyboard turners / clickers to people who participated on arena tournaments. unfortunately, very few of the latter and 85% of the first group. but its fine, cool bunch, love them
yeah instant poison is good. if you get harassed a lot or want to harass, you can mix some cripple in
raven snow
sounds like y'all get along really well
raven snow
i probably should've used mind-numbing when doing the caster quest
but mind-numbing has a shit proc rate
20%
desert hazel
i run cripple/mind numbing in bgs, otherwise I never really use it
raven snow
you don't use wound poison?
raven snow
ah
damn
i could kill a level 29 if i had health pots
honestly i never thought i'd enjoy classic but here i am
raven snow
ah ok
desert hazel
hf mate!
raven snow
will i needs fire resist for later zones?
cause thee's a vendor in duskwood who sells a fire resist cloak, and i need to know if i need it
plucky nymph
Nah.
raven snow
ok
plucky nymph
There's basically no good options and only 1-2 really.
raven snow
????
plucky nymph
Especially for leveling.
plucky nymph
o _O
raven snow
i'm a noob when it comes to rogue, so pardon my enthusiasm
actually, there is one thing i don't want. rank 2 of murder
plucky nymph
That's for later, maybe.
raven snow
it's a 1% damage buff. 1%
plucky nymph
Yeah that's better than basically every other talent so long it's active.
raven snow
against certain enemy types
plucky nymph
The 2% not the 1%.
raven snow
now if it was a flat 1% damage buff i'd take it without question
raven snow
well i can see it maybe being useful in that one raid
blackwing lair
since it has a shitload of dragons
so yeah, basically my options come down to:
sin: imp. slice&dice, imp. expose armor, lethality
combat: imp. gouge, lighting reflexes
sub: master of deception, opportunity
plucky nymph
I am of the mind that if you are leveling and not barreling to the bottom of Combat you are making mistakes, but that's just me.
raven snow
ugh, classic pvp is so freaking awesome
cloud belfry
Yeah you'll think that while leveling.. once you hit 60 you'll see. Classic pvp is the worst it ever was, especially if you're undergeared. Get ready to get ass blasted by people in AQ and naxx gear
raven snow
Yeah thatβll suck
raven snow
crippling poison is good
pseudo turtle
Thats how pvp should work
You have better gear you deal more damage
Scaling pvp was a horrible idea
raven snow
Yeah, and no pvp gear was bad too
marble dune
anyone here having issues dual boxing classic/retail at the same time? i have no issue having 3 classic wows up but when i have 1 classic 1 retail, my fps on both drops to 10 fps and its unplayable, have to close one
cloud belfry
Thats how pvp should work
The issue is that it's pretty much impossible to catch up now
raven snow
how do u multilog like that do u use programs or just a lot of tabbing
ivory blaze
i see you @marble dune
toxic mantle
so i am really a little confused atm about stats...for combat swords pve, it seems like hit% even over 9% would be best for us bc of how sword spec works right? does any one know what the stat weights or like for example 29 agi=29 ap and 1% crit and 2% dodge, well what would be = to 1% hit? is it worth losing ap or crit to take more hit?
plush vigil
Hit after 9% is still very beneficial, the 9% hit cap only helps you to not miss your yellow abilities like sinister strike or backstab but your white damage (autoattacks) still miss a fair amount, sk getting more hit reduces autoattacks missing therefore a dps increase.
Also when you start getting good gear,hit is valuable because it increases your crit cap and in naxx, rogues (especially alliance) will run into crit cap issues. So in many scenarios it is worth losing crit and ap over hit but you gotta sim your individual gear.
desert hazel
Best is to sim it or use a WA to assess your crit cap. @plush vigil said it right
here I explained hit quite painfully and still kinda simplified but if you're interested, it should help you to better understand the hit table. @toxic mantle
toxic mantle
@desert hazel @plush vigil do one of you guys have a WA or something so that i can sim my character? ive not been able to find anything about classic sims other than warrior.
desert hazel
i use garcia's, both are great though
frank solar
signal ember
bronze crystal
is everyone ready for necrotic rune farming ?
plucky nymph
Tomorrow maybe > _>
bronze crystal
we have one month right ?
plucky nymph
2 weeks I think, need to reread the changes honestly.
desert hazel
scourge invasion is rather lame so far. been a gankspank of 10-15 ppl and never had a proper fight :/
toxic mantle
@desert hazel so i ran my sim and it is saying that i should put core hound's tooth in my OH rather than using Mirah's Song, would that not fuck up the procs of sword spec?
plucky nymph
Nah.
desert hazel
20 per stack is true, 20 max is officially a legend
for those still unsure about all the shittalk around
plush vigil
now if I could only reach 20 with the zones being swarmed
desert hazel
we spanked alliance and taken over their zones. worked out 6 times in a row and net us around 2k runes
dad guild maybe but angry lol
plush vigil
Our guild is more focused on progression right now so there isn't a hard focus on rune farm
Tbh naxx trash is harder than bosses with the most random one shots
plucky nymph
Abom. trash is gnarly but the rest is pretty comfy
desert hazel
We do neither. We pvp in a small group, have fun and start naxx on wednesday with a few beer. My guild will never have any server first or fastest clears
signal ember
First KT kill, kingsfall dropped
went to a hunter
No death sting drop ever for whole AQ40 when I raided, SL came out and this shit happened
plucky nymph
ha ha ha
marble dune
w t f?????
what kind of loot system is that
even warriors should be getting it before hunters
its bis for tanks i heard for dps
plush vigil
Kingsfall is bis for hunters
desert hazel
yes but it always hurts when an amazing dps weapon is used as a pure statstick. hunter with kingsfall is not going to weave
bronze crystal
How is the consecrated stones farming going on and how much do you intend to store ?
I am currently at 30 stones, aiming for 100+ to be safe. 150 would be terrific ...
(being horde of course, with WF on mainhand ...)
desert hazel
i have something around 60 and aim for 100
marble dune
4 stones a night for ally, x 16 weeks of naxx, need about 64 stones
dont think its worth it to re-sharpen for the 3rd hour each night
your wbuffs are gone at that point and youre not parsing anyways
desert hazel
for me its totally different. we have such a huge gap between our people that the ones actually capable to push need to have everything to compensate. I am horde and aim for 100 as I expect us to use plenty of stones until we even manage to clear naxx
desert hazel
Got Kingsfall tonight
damn boii, congratulations π
raven snow
what bg is better for honor? AB or WSG?
plush vigil
Ab
desert hazel
more swings, potentially more hits, more chances for applications. it's not rocket science :X
red junco
Hey guys, need a bit if weapon advice as I'm not 100% sure what the best setup is for me. Weapons I currently have:
Maladath - 56.4 dps // 2.20 speed
Warblade of the Hakkari (MH) - 49.7 dps // 1.70 speed
Dragonfang Blade - 55.3 dps // 1.80 speed
Zulian Slicer - 44.8 dps // 2.50 speed
Out of these, what should I have in MH and Off hand. Currently I'm running with Maladath MH and Dragonfang Blade OH
bronze crystal
tricky combination, but i'd go for
Maladath MH and dragonfang OH
however you should aim for Maladath OH with a strong MH (Brutality, CTS, Qirarji sword)
or aim for a more suitable OH (myrah or ZG OH sword) if you keep Maladath as MH
What I wrote assumes you are sword specced.
if dagger then Dragonfang MH and any other dagger OH (Alterac revered or exalted, or any other good pre-raid bis)
red junco
Ok. Some guys in the guild are suggesting dragonfang MH , maladath oh and going combat dagger spec
With naxx progression, I don't think we will be doing any aq or bwl runs for a while, so it may be some time before I get a good slow MH sword
raven snow
@desert hazel honestly wouldnβt having more actual damage be better?
desert hazel
Hey guys, need a bit if weapon advice as I'm not 100% sure what the best setup i...
Maladath MH / Dragonfang Blade OH would be best out of a really bad set of options π get ZG OH and you will already increase dps by at least 20
Maladath is a rather nice OH but quite bad as MH
raven snow
new build, new me
desert hazel
would be good to replace it soon and put to your offhand. options are CTS, AQR pre naxx, R14 but that's not an option to most people
desert hazel
it is, its ridiculous
raven snow
yikes
raven snow
yeah but when i hit 60 i think i might try to go for it, just for fun
raven snow
riposte is so good
desert hazel
thing is, you're really low. if you focus on everything during leveling, you will spend a lot of time that soon is completely wasted again.
I suggest to figure out how to get to 60 fast and with as much fun as possible, stick to the plan, execute and then, with 60, get support how to best prepare yourself for endgame content
its ok to learn on the run
but things are so different while leveling, especially in low levels than it will be endgame
drowsy flare
r14 really depends on your server
if your caps are <500k, and the player pool is being boosted by chinese botters someone is paying for
then it's quite attainable
if no good pool bosting, and high caps
then its utter cancer
and i'm speaking as an r14 :p
desert hazel
Which is fine even in terms of items. R14 is still strong but not strongest in most slots even for pvp
plush vigil
r14 grind at this point of classic aint worth
desert hazel
it's easier on most servers
but nonsense
if a hunter wants to grind R12, ok
minmaxing
but generally, I'd say useless
plush vigil
The grind itself is horrible and not worth it
The best way to earn honor as rogue is to sit stealthed near blacksmith in ab and watch as others kill
Since rogues have less armor than mages they are #1 kill prio when out of stealth
And if you die you lose honor by not being near the fight
Great system :)
bronze crystal
Speaking about weapons, I just bought AQR for 1.2k in a gdkp run. I thought it would be worth it to upgrade my CTS since there won't be anything better until KT.
The 2.8 swing looks very sweet.
plucky nymph
It's an okay upgrade.
desert hazel
For pvp definitely. For pve its your typical item upgrade
plush vigil
Perds+cht is the chad combo
haughty rune
can i pick pocket anima cell in torghast ?
bronze crystal
140 consecrated sharpening stones
probably gonna stop at 150
i expect to use 5 each week
so around 25 per month
so 6 months until BC
what a painful grind this is
desert hazel
its super chill here. i stopped at 95
we typically roll over aliiance, finish the event, roll over next alliance, finish the event, etc
azure lark
Dead game
bronze crystal
The 7000 subs on the realm I am playing on beg to differ
and trust me, I would really like to have 3/4 of these people gone
cloud belfry
I'm on a sub 2000 pop server - no you don't
bronze crystal
never enjoyed the game so much as when battlenet was down and I was already connected, the vanilla experience for 1 hour
cloud belfry
it's nice at first, but when the server dies it's not
desert hazel
I love a full server
when I actively play, I make around 200-300 world pvp kills per weak, sometimes more
that's only possible on full servers
bronze crystal
I play on PVE and I'm only interested in progress, I understand it's not for everybody
cloud belfry
Fair enough. A cozy quiet server is pretty nice then
cloud belfry
dull bluff
oh whoops wrong channel I need coffee lol
dim oracle
rigid yacht
pugio and veiled
sturdy vine
It's naxx daggers/rings worth pugging for in terms of PvP? Or am I fine with perds cht, Drake Fang
cloud belfry
you're gonna start feeling weaker if you don't get a weapon upgrade soon as people get decked in naxx gear
desert hazel
you can stunlock kill some targets with perd/CHT, you can stunlock kill most targets with naxx gear. oh and DS as the one item pre-naxx gives you a huge boost too if dagger rogue
DS is a big buff compared to Perds
trail sun
guys is finality still best caeuse sims say its akaari
autumn sequoia
Hey guys. What is better for hemo dmg? Castigator or aqr? Is weapon normalization active in current classic patch?
rigid yacht
its normalized as far as iβm aware
i think the only ability not normalized is ghostly strike
nevermind they never normalized hemo in classic. wep speed is something to consider for sure
autumn sequoia
So I am confused. Is hemo normalized or not
rigid yacht
its not
sturdy vine
I suppose I'll have to start pugging some naxx to keep the banking dream alive xD
desert hazel
So I am confused. Is hemo normalized or not
Hemo is not. slow weapons are amazing even if they have lower dps/stats
Formula: weapon damage (just take (min dmg + max dmg) / 2) + (AP/14 x weap spd)
that's why teebus is better for hemo dmg than CTS but just really really close and only for hemo dmg
that's also why R14 is better than AQR
raven snow
Hello classic players. wavesSo Γ€hm...i probably not gonna be joining classic again as long as we don't get fresh servers (cause i'm pretty sure they will come. There is just to mutch money in that for blizzard not to do it) But if they do i actually would have liked to play rogue and wanted to ask if anybody here could maybe enlighten me about the perks of playing a rogue in classic.
(Besides beating a poor child out in the open world out of stealth)
bronze crystal
When the aggro of the tanks on the boss is shitty and your uptime is high, you shine. π«
(and that happens quite a lot between phase 1 and phase 6)
Your dps is energy based which means you deliver the best constant dps (no huge critical bolt at pull, no execute phase overaggro) : you can almost always fully play without retaining yourself, so no frustration there
You will have your heroic boss tanking moments when poping evasion. Getting raid gear is easy because you have good set pieces.
Frustating points : warriors paladins hunters chamans will steal your leather, especially during the pre raid phase
You scale less than warriors : the more stuff the more they will overdps you
Pvp with no pvp spec is a joke (a bad one).
cloud belfry
The ease of gearing a rogue alone makes them worth playing, imo. I picked warrior and in a lot of ways I wish I'd gone for rogue instead after seeing all of my guilds rogues with full sets of t1 and t2 while I've been using a deathbringer from literally phase 1 to phase 6
Running hundreds of arenas for a fucking sgc
Also, having stealth completely changes the way you play the game on a pvp server. The ability to just say no to conflicts is just insane especially when you have people trying to gank you and grief your world buffs
Not even to mention the ease of farming things both in instances and out in the open world
You're insanely dangerous in pvp from day one to the end of the game. Everyone will be terrified of you. People hear a rogue stealth or get sapped/distracted and absolutely lose their minds, running for their lives so they don't get killed
stable tapir
yo if anyone is rogue assasination can u look in the channel :))
cloud belfry
starting out on a fresh server you can leverage your stealth to get rich farming rich thorium veins or black lotuses in silithus/winterspring etc if you can manage to get ahead of the pack while leveling
bronze crystal
Be clever and either go for mining/herbalism on your rogue for maximum profit, or mining/engineering for pvp/dps.
cloud belfry
One of the only cons I'd say is that large scale wpvp or battlegrounds can be kind of hard as a rogue
bronze crystal
Also finding groups will be hard because tanks will not want you to compete on the leather and offset, and because you do not bring buffs to the group. Be prepared to create the group yourself.
raven snow
Wait what?XD Why should warriors get my leather?
And about the scalling. Can rogues beat Warriors still in PvP or is that later on as soon as the warriors get gear fully out of the question?
bronze crystal
Rogues are often overpowered, especially when they pop evasion. -Warrior.
because in classic, you don't get any bonus for equipping armor of your class. Warriors will be in leather/mail/plate
for example with this sweet pre-raid bis :
desert hazel
wow, seriously, many good statements given and @bronze crystal hit the nail with some funny ones too π
I agree. That's why I started a more supporty-build which is less CD dependent.
Seal Fate with imp. EA and imp. Kidney to support the finishing potential for single targets for the group/raid and it works rather well. you spend a lot less time in stealth and using cooldowns obviously but you prepare the kills to push back the enemy team.
desert hazel
One of the only cons I'd say is that large scale wpvp or battlegrounds can be ki...
actually that should have been a reply to this here ^
cloud belfry
Unfortunately as I get more and more gear on my warrior I'm pretty much untouchable vs rogues. I just have too much armor, too much defense skill, and do too much damage. Imagine your 5pt kidney shit just completely getting dodged or missed. That happens to me very frequently now with a full set of tier 2.5. and my overpowers with bonereavers edge basically two shot most rogues. Really geared ones are still a threat but they still have to play perfectly or they get clapped
desert hazel
well, arms warrior are my nemesis. also statistically (I track my 1v1 fights in world pvp)
I have to beat them without them touching me more than once or I die
cloud belfry
In my pvp set on my Warrior I have 6-9k armor depending on if I have a shield on, 6k hp unbuffed, a passive 20% dodge chance, disarm immunity, and my mortal strikes hit for 1.5k-3k+ on average
cloud belfry
Yeah pretty much. If you can 5-8 kite perfectly, which is possible, there's this one r14 rogue on my server I can't even touch rofl. You can bleed a warrior out and just keep resetting until I die. But if I get the chance to intercept, I can stun lock you with tidal charm and grenade which removes your dodge chance and you're basically dead meat
desert hazel
these are the stats since 1 december 2020. warriors are a threat. if they charge me before I can stealth, I'm screwed. and with human warriors its even harder, they often cost me a vanish before I can start the fight to avoid perception. I miss that vanish later in the fight a lot
cloud belfry
The armor part is really the killer
desert hazel
Yeah pretty much. If you can 5-8 kite perfectly, which is possible, there's this...
yep, bleed gouge/cripple kiting an arms warrior is pretty much my only chance if he's well geared
raven snow
Okey maybe i just go frosty boi then if Rogues get there but handed by the most popular class in the game.
cloud belfry
If I pop a stoneshield you basically do zero damage unless it's a bleed
raven snow
desert hazel
they are not used to fight 1v1 typically
cloud belfry
That's the thing as a rogue, you can just pick your fights
desert hazel
thats the door opener
I pick every fight with warriors I can
they're the most thrilling for sure
cloud belfry
You will slaughter anyone who isn't in a full set of plate
raven snow
cloud belfry
So many warriors with unchained 2handers are so susceptible to disarms lmao
And it's like.. if it's really going south just blind and run rofl
I can't stop that
Look at his win rates. That's only 15 times out of over a hundred that he lost
That's how rare good pvp warriors are
desert hazel
i dont blind an run. I go for a CC rotation until I run out of it then stick to bleed kiting
yeah and all but 2/15 had the initial charge
they are not used 1v1 environments
even pvp warriors
they are used to vanguard in arathi basin
cloud belfry
I just mean you have options, it's not as one sided as it seems
desert hazel
that's a different gameplay
yes, I love that as a rogue. it's more about when and where do I pick the fight, not if, as I never avoid it
cloud belfry
Also to get to the gear level where you're really powerful against rogues takes a shit ton of PVPing or a perfect set of pve gear
desert hazel
especially in 1vX scenarios it's amazing to decide the positioning
cloud belfry
Most people won't have that just by virtue of the time investment alone
The only reason I do is because of covid 
desert hazel
yeah the good thing with rogue itemization is that we get amazing pvp gear both through pvp and pve along all phases
T1, T2, T2.5, T3 are all great in pvp
cloud belfry
Yeah warrior prebis pvp gear is kinda trash, they only get dangerous after getting a bunch of tier 2.5, rank 10 or rank 14 gear
All 500+ hour commitments
cloud belfry
Pre p5 I felt like goku in the hyperbaric time chamber hahah
Getting my ass kicked all across azeroth
Just waiting for the time when I'd become powerful
cloud belfry
Oof
desert hazel
chargestunkillsme
cloud belfry
Yeah I'm not that geared yet my guild hasnt killed KT yet
desert hazel
same, I'm in a dad guild
cloud belfry
Yeah, if you see someone with a gigantic blue glowing mace.... Run. Rofl
desert hazel
but I run Death's Sting, Full T2.5, T2 gloves and partial T3
I deal my share of dmg
but vs warriors I'd obviously prefer Hemo
dont have any proper weapon though
cloud belfry
This one rogue on my server still kicks my ass though. He opens on me, 5pt expose armor into gouge reset, then hits me with the stun lock combo and then bleeds me out once I'm low
desert hazel
will get the servo if it drops from naxx trash, it'll give me options
cloud belfry
It's really hard to win. I have to use lifegiving gem and probably a health pot and a whipper just to survive
desert hazel
This one rogue on my server still kicks my ass though. He opens on me, 5pt expos...
yeah that's how you run arms warriors
if there are no rules, as in world pvp, I have good chances to win even vs 2 warriors at once, with well timed engi and alchemy stuff
cloud belfry
Wow pvp is best with no rules imo
Bring out all the stops
But yeah all of this is to say that rogue is just really fucking powerful all throughout classic if you know what you're doing. Being able to catch people with their pants down is a free win 95% of the time
bronze crystal
Okey maybe i just go frosty boi then if Rogues get there but handed by the most ...
if you go for a frosty boi (mage) then do it on Horde side ... because you don't want to face shamans.
desert hazel
if you plan to head into potential tbc and want to be strong in pve and pvp dont run a rogue though π
raven snow
I shit on TBC
i want fresh serversXD
@bronze crystal uff would be hard decsision. Either go horde cause horde is love or go alliance to crush Warrior matcho egos with a tiny gnome in a dress.
desert hazel
undead everything
raven snow
Since when is alliance eazy mode i heared horde has the stronger racials?
desert hazel
doesnt matter much. PvE alliance is stronger but its not that big a deal. in pvp it really depends the matchup
as a rogue you obviously hate human but as alliance rogue, orcs are no fun either. as lock/spriest you have issues with undead and so on
bronze crystal
Since when is alliance eazy mode i heared horde has the stronger racials?
have you ever heard of blessing of kings and how it scales on a whole raid way more than totems ?
raven snow
#
Oh yeah there was that.
That was the reason i wanted to play paladin the first time but stoped at lvl 35 because i became tired of pressing 2 buttons before going afk for a minute and come back after my guy auto hit the boss to death
bronze crystal
it provides tanks with extra HP
which makes a big difference on fights such as Patchwerk or Maexna
just don't be a sissy and go for WF like the good lad you are
raven snow
WF?
bronze crystal
Windfury
plush vigil
Classic raiding is ez mode for rogues anyways
raven snow
I'm just looking for a solid fun class that is not overly reliant on other people(Sorry healers) that is good in PvE and PvP
The thing is i know everybody and there mom has a warrior in classic so i'm not sure if i should go for the rogue or the mage.
I never considered playing shaman in wow. I always just heared about how they are only good for windfury and there randome wombo one shot crap they can pull if they are top geared with sulfuras and windfury procs.
cloud belfry
Everyone and their mother will have a mage too
Also consider the the mage pve rotation is super boring
desert hazel
mage is strong in pve and pvp and stays strong in both if it moves on to TBC
otherwise, rogue definitely is fun both in PvE and PvP right now
relatively easy to gear up and can do well on his own
cloud belfry
I'd say the same thing about rogue in tbc tbh
Mages fall off a bit in pve in tbc afaik
cloud belfry
I think that's a bit overblown. The whole "melee is bad in tbc" thing is a huge meme in my opinion, it was bad back in the day when people had no concept of how to deal with mechanics, but with today's optimizations and player skill they will be solidly middle of the pack
tbc doesn't have spiteful
that's a real anti-melee mechanic
the shit in tbc is just a bit more dangerous "don't stand in the fire" type stuff