wow-general

[woeful geyser]

downtimes are bad and you dont want them, doesnt matter what you play

there where only absolute extreme edge cases like Outlaw on Tindral, but thats because of how Outlaw works and the fight kinda not working with it

[fringe umbra]

Last boss of manaforge is similar to tindral

[woeful geyser]

Outlaw is no real spec anyway

[static epoch]

tbh if a class is ever designed to actively benefit from downtime, there'd be an issue

[tough swallow]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1mbgo8j/alright_imma_say_it_the_new_profession_system_is/

seems like a lot of people agree to this.

[woeful geyser]

eh, they went a bit too much in some ways this expansion ye

like, alchemy/jc is just absurd at points

[ember saffron]

alchemy stinks

[long ice]

the experimenting part to get recipes was aids

esp if you wanted to have a potion vs flask specialized crafting toon

and also having nothing to do with knowledge points once you fill everything out with gathering profs

[woeful geyser]

its a good framework

but needs some refining done

[quasi galleon]

Was really sad when excess points didn't at least convert to dragonflies knowledge if you hadn't finished those

[long ice]

I do like what it offers as far as crafting consumables goes as a whole

[woeful geyser]

maybe dont do some cringelord "dev hunting" 🙂

[formal fulcrum]

Oh mb king

[long ice]

def bait, devs don't meet

[woeful geyser]

mfs saw the name realz once 5years ago and now think its some mastermind that has solo say about everything

god i hate Gamers

[formal fulcrum]

lol it’s not a personal attack dw so much Tryan

[mellow pilot]

Usually the problem is that by mentioning it's name there's always a low IQ guy that pings the devs to ask stupid stuff

especially in #outlaw

[wicked night]

https://www.reddit.com/r/WowUI/s/KOxPPeHI6B

this looks great

[white shuttle]

Disagree outlaw/fire downtime feels worse than all the other specs in the game because of the cdr feedback loop

[static epoch]

dunno why
it's a decent system, my only complaint is catchup being slow af

people call anything "bloated" these days if it has more than one moving part

[plush dune]

there are definitely a couple professions that just have way too many points required, but overall the system is definitely an upgrade over the previous one

it also kind of falls off mid expansion when there are people fully capped on everything

[noble kestrel]

JC's gem tree is very funny

[static epoch]

tbh I maxed out alchemy the fastest

and JC wasn't all that slow either

the slowest was BS

BS is fucking slow as fuck

[neon glen]

JC LW and BS have 5 billion points but you don't need them maxed to be able to craft everything

[static epoch]

ehhhh
crafting everything in alchemy is like
very much not a problem, there's like a whole useless tree for transmutes that doesn't do anything but blasphemite?

[plush dune]

well thats kind of the point, some of the trees have a lot of points that dont really contribute anything

i shouldve said "have way too many points total" instead of required ig

again still a significant upgrade over the previous profession system where nothing mattered at all

but it could use some more polish

[neon glen]

it is better yes, it just suffers from the same issue as talent trees. Some aren't as well made

like you can spend 25 points to improve mining seams, but they forgot to put more than like 4 seams in the game

[woeful geyser]

soooooo many specs have a cdr feedback loop, they are not unique in that regard

[static epoch]

ye investing in seams was a mistake lmao

[wicked night]

the problem with crafting with houses coming out is itll just be a big ass gold sink like legendaries were in SL

Let me have more than 2 professions or bring out a new housing profession so we can just make shit

[tough swallow]

i mean its the entire idea behind the rework

to make a system you can drag out longer and have more gold sunken into

[wicked night]

yh but gold sinks and wow gold sinks are completely different

max level legendary materials were costing 100k+++ every patch lol

and the problem with the system is people make 500 alts, use glitches to get infinite artisan and then flood the market

I cbf to do that so I just.. dont do anything

[plush dune]

A gold sink is something that removes gold from the economy

That's not what professions are

[wicked night]

professions enable the gold sinks though

lets be real, gold sink into the top 5 big dick crafters with 100mil+ gold on their accounts are the same as blizzard having it

[plush dune]

No, professions are you engaging in the economy, you spending money on something doesn't make it a gold sink

Yes there are mega goblins that hoard gold

But a gold sink is something like heirloom upgrades that permanently remove gold from the economy

Specifically exist to do so

Not that people use heirlooms anymore

[wicked night]

people buy gold to get these items, meaning there is more 'active' gold in the economy anyway, and this is ruined by the fact active gold is people buying off bots.

[tough swallow]

i think anything that requires you to spend a noticable amount of gold for baseline competition is a gold sink

but its up to definition

e.g. consumables like runes are a gold sink in my opinion

[plush dune]

I mean if we make up incorrect definitions to fit our point then sure

[wicked night]

I get what bel is saying, its a gold 'move' not gold 'sink'

but there are no gold sinks if we tie professions to housing

make everything only from vendors then

[tough swallow]

you spend gold/time for aquisition and its a short time power gain which requires constant investment

[plush dune]

That's what an economy is yes

[wicked night]

but these are still gold sinks

if they are sold on the AH

due to the cut

[noble kestrel]

Professions aren't even close to the biggest sink in the economy, anyway

[tough swallow]

i mean if you want to get nerdy

lets do it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_sink

there is a wikipedia definition of gold sink

auction house is by design one

[plush dune]

And it literally disproves your point right away

The ah tax is a gold sink

That doesn't make professions themselves a gold sink

[wicked night]

which is where literally every profession is sold to

[wicked night]

even crafting orders have tax

[tough swallow]

i think its exactly the point

having taxes on economy items or items you need to consume and re-buy

fit this definition

[plush dune]

Like I said, the tax is a gold sink

[tough swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/mic-drop-obama-barack-gif-13411519

[plush dune]

But the vast majority of the gold stays in the economy

You haven't proven your point at all though lmao

Unless your point is now the miniscule gold sink from ah taxes is the reason the profession rework happened

[plush dune]

Like this had just not been proven

[tough swallow]

the rework happened to increase player engagement, which happened

[wicked night]

the profession rework happened because professions fucking suck lol

[inland gale]

The ah is just moving gold from one player to another. It’s not a gold sink

[plush dune]

Exactly lmao

[tough swallow]

this basically is how it works

by creating higher profile items or additional consumables

you get more gold spend into professions

and also require more gold to level them

[wicked night]

but they still fucking suck lol @plush dune

[plush dune]

They suck significantly less than they did

[wicked night]

hmmm.. debateable

[plush dune]

And gold used to level professions is again, put back into the economy

[tough swallow]

due to having a skill tree, you need to fill with time investment more or less you keep someone engaed

[noble kestrel]

They are a vast improvement. They still need more work, but they've done a huge amount to improve crafting. In addition to giving us deterministic, almost-parity-with-mythic items.

Which is huge

[tough swallow]

in the end all it lead to is that unlike pre rework

a new player now needs to buy a wow token

to be tollerated in the community

[noble kestrel]

I don't think that's true at all

[tough swallow]

a new player is required to have crafted gear even in random groups

these are costly

[plush dune]

You absolutely do not need to buy a wow token to be tolerated lmao

You get enough gold to craft gear by leveling

[noble kestrel]

That's really not true, though.

[tough swallow]

farming is typically not a reasonable approach

so many just opt to buy a token

[plush dune]

Not to mention they aren't checking your gear

In the groups new players are joining

[tough swallow]

even streamers suggest this as the "best advise to new players"

[noble kestrel]

You could argue it is needed if you want to push hard content early. But the majority of players aren't doing that.

Also, the cost of crafting has fallen dramatically. Maybe right at expansion launch it could've been true but now? Not at all.

You can get 30 - 40k just from leveling and doing the weekly stuff at cap. Which is enough to cover crafts, and basic enchants.

[plush dune]

Yeah this is not an issue that truly exists

Like yes, the new crafting system is far from perfect

But to claim it solely exists to make people buy gold and push engagement is in bad faith to say the least

[tough swallow]

i think its easy to overlook how limited the knowlage base of a new palyer is

[noble kestrel]

If that's true then why are they buying a token to craft gear?

That also requires knowledge.

It simply doesn't hold water.

[tough swallow]

because guilds and groups tell them

[plush dune]

They have the knowledge to look up what crafted gear to buy and how but not the knowledge to do a weekly and get 2k gold each

[noble kestrel]

I think it could hold true to a minority of players, who want to raid high level but don't have the knowledge. And end up in weird groups who pressure or push a certain way of playing. Absolutely. But it is absolutely not the norm to most people.

There's absolutely going to be a gap of knowledge where they end up making bad decisions to get into raiding / M+. But this is going to be for a minority of players, but a majority.

Because the majority of people don't really touch that content.

I remember the price of stuff very early on in TWW was pretty extreme. But you didn't need that, and I saw a lot of people simply not bothering with it at normal / heroic levels until the price fell.

[plush dune]

Also price gouging would've been the same issue under the old system

In fact it was

With sl legendaries

That shit was so expensive on launch

[noble kestrel]

SL legendaries is actually a good argument for "needing to buy a token to access content", tbh. It didn't happen but it was closer to that.

[tough swallow]

the old crafting system had no embellishments

so crafted gear was useless

also less consumables

[noble kestrel]

Pre-DF it was basically ignorable outside of like, Alchemy.

[tough swallow]

so the total amount of gold you need to spend to participate in e.g. raiding ended up lower

[plush dune]

But the embellishments and the new crafting talent trees are not the same system, they could exist (and did in the form of sl legenadries) under the old profession system

[tough swallow]

the old system could cover the same benefits the current one has, without a lot of the hoops, time gating and complications

the system is extremely bad in terms of transparency

[plush dune]

The old system absolutely could not accomplish the same thing the new one does

[tough swallow]

especially with having things you need to do crafting orders on, which actually disrupts the flow

what would not work under the old systems

it included crafted gear, gear enchants, etc. all which is equal to what we have in outocme now

[plush dune]

Those "hoops, time gates, and complications" you're complaining about are gameplay that actually adds something to professions other than "level to 100 then craft everything ever with 0 thought"

YOU might not enjoy them, and that's fine

But your argument hasn't been that you don't enjoy them, it's been that the whole system exists solely to drive engagement and token purchases

Ignoring all the people that do in fact enjoy this system simply because they feel they have more choice about what to do and when

[tough swallow]

thats putting words in my mouth

[plush dune]

You literally said both of those thjngs

And argued about it

[tough swallow]

you did make the "token purchase" link, i did just say its a common advise given to new players

[plush dune]

YOU brought up tokens

Not me

[tough swallow]

yes

but i did only say that the system requires more gold and time investments

[plush dune]

Lmao

[tough swallow]

making it sound like its only there to purchase tokens feels a bit weird

changes context

[plush dune]

"The system requires more gold and BTW wow tokens exist wink wink"

[tough swallow]

thats your interpretation

[plush dune]

So make your true point then

No misinterpretation possible

Why is the new system worse than the old system

[tough swallow]

i already did

[plush dune]

So yes, your point is in fact that it exists solely to drive engagement and make people spend gold

[tough swallow]

yes

[plush dune]

Ignoring all the strides forward the system made that people genuinely enjoy, it's bad because engagement metrics

Lmao

[tough swallow]

i mean you enjoy the time sink

[plush dune]

I don't even engage with the time sink, I simply don't argue in bad faith over systems simply because I don't like them

[tough swallow]

huh, what bad feith?

[noble kestrel]

While there is a time sink for the crafter, the way work orders function there's less time involved for people who just want their gear.

I don't agree it made prices go up 'cos, lmao, SL legendaries. It's made crafted gear an accessible and viable route to gearing which it hasn't been since.. I dunno. Wrath?

[plush dune]

Claiming all the work put into the system was solely to drive engagement metrics and make people spend gold is either bad faith or idiotic

People spent just as much or more gold under the old system

[noble kestrel]

You can entirely ignore crafting and still access everything it provides.

[plush dune]

Exactly

[tough swallow]

i don't think thats true

having less oppotunity to spend gold

means you spend less

[plush dune]

Are we just completely ignoring shadowlands legendary still

[tough swallow]

it feels like a no brainer to me

[plush dune]

And again, embellishments are not tied directly to the new profession system

They can and would exist under the old system

And again, did, with sl legendaries

Just in a different form

[noble kestrel]

Crafting in TWW is cheaper than it was in DF, too. Due to the (very good) change to acuity and how concentration works.

[plush dune]

The amount of stuff you have to buy from professions is not tied to whether or not the profession has a skill tree

Or just levels to 100

[tough swallow]

we probably need to agree to disagree on the topic

[meager totem]

I mean you just can possibly fathom you could be wrong so you only bring up points that suit your side of the argument

[faint bough]

no keep going its fun

[tough swallow]

to repeat myself, if you have more options to spend gold in a system and more powerful items.
It is to me a design decision to spend more gold/time in the system. You can disagree with this point if you want but i haven't rly seen a explenation that countered this point.

[meager totem]

like you going back and forth on whats a gold sink is hillarious

and the whole bringing up tokens vs time investment is beyond a moot point, thats just a thing in literally every mmo

by your logic you should only login to swipe when you wanna buy something

youre allowed to play the game because you enjoy it you know ...

doesnt have to be insanely time efficient

[tough swallow]

absolutely

and everyone does like diffrent things

[plush dune]

Who is this directed to

Because I don't think that was either sides point

[tough swallow]

In the end opinions differ and everyone has their own point of view

[meager totem]

well youre bringing up tokens, even if its just to buy a 10k craft

[plush dune]

And again, the amount of stuff you have to buy has nothing to do with whether that stuff is made on a skill tree or just from a recipe list

[noble kestrel]

I read it as making a point that the token is basically a whatever point - before the token you've got gold buying, etc. It's always and forever been a constant in MMOs

[plush dune]

Fuu brought up tokens, not me

[meager totem]

guess what end of the day you can buy pretty much everything in this game, its just going to cost you

even a glad boost

or a spectral tiger

[tough swallow]

let me give you another example

[plush dune]

I think you might have to reread the conversation, because at no point did I say the things you think I said

[tough swallow]

crafting materials now have rank

[inland gale]

They used to have dead bots littering the sky with boost websites

[inland gale]

Some people would argue with you

[meager totem]

I know fuu brought it up

I wasnt talking to you man

[tough swallow]

this creates a economy of a lot more waste items where scrascity of certain higher rank materials exists.
It means you need to farm more ores to get the highest materials which you got guratneed under the old system.

[meager totem]

as soon as he started to argue about what a gold sink is I already knew it was going to be fun

[plush dune]

You literally said "you're bringing up tokens" when I in fact did not

I instead said you don't need tokens to buy crafts

And can literally get the gold you need from weeklies

[tough swallow]

ofc there are solutions to this, like having quests which need lower quality of having the chance to buy cheaper lower ranks if you can balance it out with skill points

[meager totem]

but its literally under fuus msgs not even directed at you

[plush dune]

Just from playing the gane

[meager totem]

like what

[plush dune]

I asked which person you were replying to and your next reply started with you, so I assumed you meant me

I apologize if I got that wrong

[tough swallow]

so looking at only one aspect, the new system gives you more oppotunity because it gvies more ranks of what was usually a simpler system. Which complicates things and requires a higher time invetsment.

[noble kestrel]

I honestly think they should delete quality on ingredients. It's one of the weaknesses of the system, to me. It adds a lot of bloat, and potential confusion.

[tough swallow]

which is basically my point

[noble kestrel]

And, eventually, you hit a point in the expansion where only R3 materials exist.

[tough swallow]

you spend more time to get similar results as earlier

so the system is designed to take more time away from you as a player

this does not mean designing like this is bad

[noble kestrel]

But that ignores the work order system. Where it, effectively, allows more people to ignore and spend less time on it.

[plush dune]

You literally responded to me asking why the new system is bad with that argument though

[tough swallow]

the fact is

[meager totem]

it was poorly worded by me

[tough swallow]

i think less people engage with the system due to how complicated it is

so having shortcuts is not a bad thing

[meager totem]

I mean its only complicated and overwhelming at the start, once you look at a 10min wowhead guide you realize its just the same mold for 95% of stuff

[tough swallow]

anecdotally, we had a lot of people join our guild or in the guild who absolutely got confused by the cratfing order system

[plush dune]

I mean I've agreed already it is a little bloated, but I simply disagree with your stated reason that it exists just to drive engagement and make people spend more gold

Because as stated before, the average person is neither engaging more nor spending more gold

[meager totem]

and its now been in the game for almost 3 years so at some point its just on the player to do some research

[tough swallow]

if the average person is not engaging with it, then its even more of a fail^^

[plush dune]

The people who enjoy it enjoy it,the people who don't literally don't need to engage with it at all

[plush dune]

The average person doesn't engage with mythic raid or m+ either

Both failures

It's OK to have systems that not everyone engages in

Housing will also not be engaging to everyone, doesn't make it a bad feature to add

[noble kestrel]

There's one or two small changes I'd make to it, and then I think the system is pretty roboust. You do have people confused with it, but much like everything in WoW, you've gotta learn.

[tough swallow]

think thats comparing oranges to apples

[plush dune]

It's comparing game systems to game systems

[tough swallow]

so delves is a failure?

[plush dune]

By your logic apparently

[tough swallow]

or a success?

[plush dune]

Since not everyone engages with them

[tough swallow]

why

but the average is very likely to engage with it

[plush dune]

You're the one judging success or failure based on engagement metrics

[tough swallow]

so i would say, assuming both aim for the same goal of appealing to more palyers

[plush dune]

I'm fine with things existing I don't engage with that others enjoy

[tough swallow]

delves are a success

[noble kestrel]

Pet battles.

[plush dune]

Pet battle dungeons were actually cool ngl

But the average player didn't engage with them so obviously failure

[tough swallow]

think pet battles are a missed oppotunity

but yes, see we agree

[plush dune]

Except we dont

[tough swallow]

i mean we do

[plush dune]

Because they were not a failure and I was sarcastically referencing your point

[tough swallow]

you did say pet battles are not a success

which i would agree on, but still there are people who love them

and enjoy them

tho i would say missed oppotunity because i think they could be made fun with a bigger rework

[plush dune]

So what % of players have to engage with a system for you to call it a success

[meager totem]

again its the whole point of an mmo ... very few people interact with all the game systems

[plush dune]

When do we start cutting low % systems for wasting dev time

[tough swallow]

i mean thats what happens already

[plush dune]

Mythic raid dev time could be put into delves since the average player enjoys them

Let's get rid of them entirely

[tough swallow]

a lot of content is cut

e.g. look at rogue

[plush dune]

And rogue is a failure since the average player doesn't enjoy it

Better to get rid of it

[tough swallow]

pickpocketing used to be a thing throughout many xpacs, usually with currencies and quests you could get some nice cosmetics

never to be seen in more recent xpacs

i don't remember one rogue who found the system bad

[plush dune]

It's OK that the average player doesn't interact with professions to a large degree

[inland gale]

Weren’t we pick pocketing for wax like two patches ago

[tough swallow]

XD

[plush dune]

we sure did

[tough swallow]

wax is still a buggy mess, and was nerfed

soo

blizz did regulate it

[inland gale]

Tbh I had a good time with it

[tough swallow]

so you don't play it

[inland gale]

Very therapeutic

[meager totem]

you strike me as a pickpocketer

[plush dune]

tony would definitely steal your wallet

for the chance at a little wax

[inland gale]

I will blame Stu

[static pasture]

Dumb question, is there a rogue spec that isnt target capped for multi-target

[plush dune]

All are at least soft capped

Otherwise it's varying degrees

Outlaw being hard capped

[zealous halo]

Ye

Good

[plush dune]

I'd never forget the hard cap dilemma dw

[zealous halo]

[static pasture]

What are the other specs capped at?

[south jolt]

[static pasture]

Fan of knives reduced past 7 targets or smth right?

[plush dune]

Variations of 8 and 5 depending on the ability

[zealous halo]

I mean assa is basically uncapped

[south jolt]

Yea was about to say it varies around like 6 to 8 or something like that

[fringe umbra]

Well no assa is softcapped, just like sub

[plush dune]

Assa soft capped too it's just caustic cranks

[zealous halo]

Not on bleed thing tho or

[fringe umbra]

Yep

8 targets

On CT

[zealous halo]

Really

[fringe umbra]

Yes

[zealous halo]

Sounds mega fake eleem

How can I trust you

[fringe umbra]

Poison bomb aint capped though

[plush dune]

[tough swallow]

some things are even weird like Crimson Tempest being capped at 8 instead of 5 or the inverse of it fro secret

[fringe umbra]

No caustic is 5

CT is 8, pb uncapped

[tough swallow]

oh

[fringe umbra]

BP 8, sectech 5

[tough swallow]

i mean ct not caustic

my bad, fixed

[cloud jungle]

If my raid is wanting a rogue for whatever reason what spec is looking like it would see the most play next patch?

[formal fulcrum]

Assa probably safe across the board but don’t know yet

[mellow pilot]

whichever you find more appealing

[formal fulcrum]

^

Don’t prog on a spec you hate it’ll make you hate prog

[cloud jungle]

I am very new to the idea of rogue and on PTR have no clue what I'm doing lmao I'm hesitant to say I can fill the slot with the amount of learning I have ahead of me for it

[mellow pilot]

Assa is by far the easiest and slowest spec

[cloud jungle]

But I'm the most flexible player in the raid

[formal fulcrum]

Assa easiest to learn especially in raid

Least punishing too

[cloud jungle]

It's put all the bleeds then just don't let it run out right? lol

[mellow pilot]

and assa gameplay remains the same from live

more or less, yeah

[cloud jungle]

How much is outlaw changing on the PTR I know aboue the Killing spree change but did anything large change with PTR?

[mellow pilot]

probably not

[cloud jungle]

Assa and Outlaw are the two I've actually played a little bit I haven't really played sub at all

[mellow pilot]

realistically, going outlaw first kinda fucks you up

because you're most likely crafting a weapon first

And if you craft a dagger, you're gucci for both sub and assa

[cloud jungle]

Aight so sounds like I'm best messing around with Assa because it opens up the option for Sub if I so choose

[mellow pilot]

🫡

[cloud jungle]

Now to do some reading 📖

[mellow pilot]

For more specific spec questions, i advise reading the wowhead guides for each spec and then bringing the questions to #subtlety / #assassination

!guides

[ionic forum]

Rogue Guides:
WoWhead: https://www.wowhead.com/classes#rogue
Icy Veins: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/class-guides
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides

[cloud jungle]

Will do 🫡 thank you for the help good sir or madam 😄

[mellow pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/i-got-you-thumbs-up-good-great-excellent-gif-12640146

[wicked night]

is there a macro/weakaura/something that uses the same keybind for mount but if im in open world or something it uses 1 mount and if im in pvp/arena/dungeon/raid it uses the other?

[ruby totem]

The favorite mount button and set a air mount to one and a ground mount to the other is all i got

[wicked night]

will that then make it so it only summons the dragonriding if it can dragonride.. I want to use a mount that doesnt fly in instances etc but obv in open world i need my flying mount

[ruby totem]

the state of the group finder is embarrassing and blizzard should be shamed for it. The ammount of {WTS} adds is INSANE. I shouldnt have to get an addon to block it. One GM for a few hours a day could ban all of these guys.

[ruby totem]

The behavior used to be that it would pull out a flying mount when yo u could fly with that button and a ground or water mount if you were unable to fly or were swimming

i dont know if it still works like that but it used to.

[wicked night]

i will test it later

[gentle vortex]

look into addon called litemount

gives a tonne of customisation

think it can do what u want it to do

[plush dune]

if you cant fly (i.e in an instance or w/e) it will choose either the dragonriding mount or the ground mount

so it doesnt prio the ground mount unfortunately

it does prio water mounts in water though

and dragonriding mounts where you can fly

[winged tapir]

#showtooltip
/cast [mounted] !Dismount; [flyable, outdoors] YourFlyingMountName; YourGroundMountName

[sturdy silo]

Do anyone have onebutton rotation dps loss spreadsheet for all classes?

Can't find anywhere

[mellow pilot]

Wowhead has numbers

[floral quartz]

🤟

[mellow pilot]

Eai

[wet stratus]

why’s it called #rules-and-guides when there ain’t no guides

[ember nest]

it was guidelines

[glad harness]

We guide you on proper internet etiquette

[worn heart]

How are the rogue specs looking for next semester?

Semester, jesus christ

next patch

[mellow pilot]

Looks alright

[faint bough]

rogue spec parity looks pretty great!

unfortunately where we are parity-ing is not where we prob want to be!

[left crow]

PSA for bank change:

• buying 3 bag slots before change opens the second bank tab.
• buying 5 bag slots opens the third bank tab.
• buying void storage opens 2 additional bank tabs.
• buying reagent bank opens 1 additional bank tab.
  All of this costs 261g10s per before the change, buying five bank tabs after the change costs 9100g.

[oak tartan]

That's 1 time regemming just to see what happens

[floral quartz]

Boa noite

[ember basin]

Hey rogues

I just uhh got here, Im a mage main, I haven't touched a rogue since Wotlk when I had one cuz I was forced to play it (Don't ask lol I was a kid) and I kinda was thinking about it

I'm mainly a world content person, so I was just wondering if someone could further convince me Cuz I'm uncertain from past experience.

[queen oasis]

If you do world content only, then only good thing with rogue is stealth +passive movespeed

Its shit for soloing anything, horrible self heal, some specs rely too much on stealth in combat to feel good in solo content

Just my opinion tho

[ember basin]

💀 Damn, when was rogue peak for you?

IK its a very combo class, but probably not as punishing as windwalker monk

[queen oasis]

WoD maybe? Nah some ups and downs, but it depends on the content

Its fine in instanced content

I usually try to do zekvir/underpin/etc on difficulty ?? early, its just much easier on some other classes

[ember basin]

I haven't touched that on my mage since Zekvir owned me ngl

I was way way lower ilvl tho

[queen oasis]

Well my alt is a mage, im not saying mage is better 😂
But if all you wanna do is non-instanced/solo content, i think something like BM hunter, DK, retri etc would be better but i only play rogue/mage and it is doable, just rough

[hearty fog]

mage is 100% better

[ember basin]

I mean, thats all I do on my mage rn so I feel like if I make a rogue? Thats what it will end up doing cuz it will be an alt

Ik mage is better, Frost is goated for World stuff

I have 2 mages too, I got a gnome and a belf

[left crow]

to make an argument for rogue: stealth in open world content is quite nice. you get to places out of combat you would have to fight your way through on other classes (not that this is difficult tho) and some no killing world quests can be done without combat at all by stealthing and sapping mobs. a sheeped mob puts you in combat walking next to it, sapped does not. also: the legendary dagger quest is nice

[ember basin]

Is the class hall fun? Can I summon crackers on my other characters?

[left crow]

Been a while since I played Legion content, but I think there were stealth quests in the class campaign, a quest mechanic no other class gives you.

[queen oasis]

Class hall was fine, but i havent played other classes there so cant compare.
And crackers?

But ye i totally agree with taschenfranz on the stealth, i enjoy that shit aswell 😀

[ember basin]

Crackers is a pet! He's a little parrot https://www.wowhead.com/item=143679/crackers

He's from the rogue hall

[queen oasis]

Thats why, i dont give a shit about pets 😂

[ember basin]

Well the mage one isn't all that, its very tied to the overall legion story.

On the upside tho, our hidden artifact appearances are fun. Especially Aluneth! We get to go on a world adventure finding exploding sheep lmao

[ember basin]

Hes part of the campaign though, have you done it? He sits on your shoulder

[left crow]

Seems like a normal flying pet

warlock

[ember basin]

Do /Whistle

Hes 1/2 pets in the game that does it, the other is feathers

From BFA

[left crow]

I too don't give a fuck about pets, did not know that 🙂

[ember basin]

Most people do not, sadly

I love pets and their cute interactions

[queen oasis]

Ye i got the mounts etc
I dont remember hidden artifact to be particularly interesting to get on rogue tho, except maybe the sub one was fine (its in a rogue only zone/event)

[ember basin]

I have all the achievements from mage so chances are ill breeze by

Especially all that work I put into the rep grind 💀

[main orbit]

any mop channel?

[warm pagoda]

There's a classic discussion channel but it's kind of dead. In the pins for that channel they have links to other discords though

[scenic flame]

What do you guys think is currently the most fun spec and what is the easiest spec for rogue?

[warm pagoda]

Fun is subjective, easiest for raids is assassination probably

[noble kestrel]

Sub(jective)

[warm pagoda]

It was looking me in the face all along

[scenic flame]

Well, what do you guys think is the most fun spec (for you personally) and why?

[noble kestrel]

Sub, purple, big burst inside cooldowns and lots of buttons. Planning for the next burst window is fun, etc.

[mellow pilot]

Assassination

Because I can't play the other two

[jovial pewter]

Outlaw cuz

[polar onyx]

100% sub

[scenic flame]

I just found out there is a one-button-build option now, what is the best rogue spec for one-button? I looked at wowhead and it says: Sin: -15%, Outlaw: -25% and Sub: -26%. Are these numbers accurate?

[mellow pilot]

Yes

Maybe

One button rotation is a DPS gain for many players tho

[fringe umbra]

It is comparing to the regular sims

[scenic flame]

to be honest, I would probably do more dmg using it. Only played Sin for ~3 Addons and now switched to Sub and I suck ass.

[faint bough]

Sub and outlaw both have pretty punishing rotations that if you're not doing things well, you're gonna do terrible dmg

Not to say they're not worth it, they're both fun in different ways, but trying them out for 30 mins will not really get you anywhere

[scenic flame]

I just kinda got bored by sin or maybe I just did not like how the spec changed over time, but there is not any other class I truly like. I leveld 10 classes to 80 to see if I like anything else, but ...eh not really.

I whish Sub had less button blowed, besides that I do like the spec

[faint bough]

It seems like a lot at the start but after getting some practice in it's not that bad

[hazy trail]

So we have any ideas when the next addon will hit? I know they will announce it soon but I need to know for my holiday planning at work ….not the exact time, something like next summer oder smth

[noble kestrel]

Probably late Feb

[hazy trail]

So they won’t be season 4?

[fringe umbra]

We dont know, they will probably reveal and talk about it during gamescom

[hazy trail]

They will before Gamescom I know

One day before

I just asked what u guys think

[meager totem]

theyre not gonna announce the date on gamescon

[faint bough]

@glad harness

[glad harness]

@wraith scarab Any reason you linked this in clear violation of our rules?

[meager totem]

its also in OT

[glad harness]

Unfortunate

[faint bough]

hes doing it in every channel in every class discord, goes to show if you use AI your brain will melt out your ears

[glad harness]

I didnt even click onto it before now. 10 fps questionable over all quality

[warm pagoda]

What did they post

[faint bough]

"AI creates beautiful art, I worked really hard on this!"

[faint bough]

some shitty ai short vid

[long ice]

zgu zg

[warm pagoda]

Nothing fun then

[noble kestrel]

it looked really shit

[glad harness]

There were artifacts all over the place. Alas, thats what you get without powering the ai with the atlantic ocean. As you were, back to discussing turtles.

[lunar kite]

Use hekili tonhave a better understandong of your rota

[faint bough]

https://tenor.com/view/i-like-turtles-zombie-kid-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-tortoise-tortuga-gif-16340543

[noble kestrel]

Turtles are cool

[faint bough]

I used to live in Mexico right on the beach, and we would go down to this old palm tree that had fallen down to smoke weed. One night we're just playing music and chilling and a massive green turtle comes onto the beach to nest not 5 ft from us. We turned off the music and lights, and just sat still and silent as we let the turtle do her thing (but still passing the joint around). After about 10 minutes she returned to the sea, one of the coolest experiences in my life

[mellow pilot]

Are you positive there was a turtle there?

[faint bough]

yeah unfortunately what we were smoking was not strong enough for us to be at that level lmao

[mellow pilot]

So what you're saying is that...

A turtle made it into the water!

[glad harness]

[scenic flame]

I installed it 👍

[lunar kite]

Try to not follow it blindly spamming what he says

Even if its pretty good

[static epoch]

Does it just feel like it, or does Rogue actually have a lot more talents than other classes that are borderline useless in PvE and are seemingly designed for PvP only?

Like, Gouge, improved Wound/Crippling Poison, Shadowheart (tbh useless everywhere, but the conditions are basically applied in PvP only), that one talent that reduces snares by 30% but only if they're exclusively snares (no damage attached) and PvE hasn't had non-damage snares for a long while now, Rushed Setup...

[fringe umbra]

Imp crippling is actually useful in a few keys

But ye the others not so much

[obsidian saddle]

!fuu

[ionic forum]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[novel karma]

is there vault bug? A friend completed a single +10 and got 632 in vault

[sturdy silo]

Please help me find that addon/wa that announce your focus target in m+

[neon glen]

https://wago.io/-MYIeNTrs what about this one

(I literally just searched "announce focus")

[sturdy silo]

I was searching by the thing it was typing

ty

[stone sparrow]

why does my worgen constantly break stealth but my night elf never has this issue

[fringe umbra]

Probably some item you have equiped

[novel cipher]

Night elves aren't as hairy

But also probably that or a macro that might be different between them

!stealth

Ah I thought we had a command for known things that break stealth

[faint bough]

intellect dagger type beat

[iron belfry]

its because worgen smell so they are not stealthy

its been a debuff since cata

[novel cipher]

My rogue is a worgen and hasn't had any issues so it's unlikely it's the race unless you're doing some sort of shenanigans with the human form

[mellow pilot]

You're just taking more baths

[novel cipher]

Those new chess sets kinda slap so I wonder how bad they'll look on worgen

[faint bough]

https://www.wowhead.com/item=243258/ensemble-grandmasters-prophetic-attire#modelviewer:22+0

dont let your dreams be dreams

[novel cipher]

That's way way better than I was expecting

[stone sparrow]

I know next to nothing about the class just playing it while waiting on next season. With one rogue i can do stealth all the time no problem. With this toon that just happens to be a worgen I will literally not even move no one around and it will break stealth has been happening since starting the toon. Was just trying to find out what may cause it

[novel cipher]

Wait just moving around breaks stealth? What's your character so I can armory snoop it

[stone sparrow]

Axewolf on daggerspine

[mellow pilot]

Plot twist: it isn't a rogue

https://tenor.com/view/hamster-dramatic-yes-huh-gif-13185359

[novel cipher]

Change your belt off lightning bolts for starters

Not only is it less good than crit, that shit definitely breaks stealth if I remember correctly

[mellow pilot]

Yes it does

[stone sparrow]

ok ya i literally touch this guy one in a blue moon but has been driving me crazy figured this was the place to ask

[novel cipher]

Everything else looks fine so bottom dollar I bet it's the belt

Bolts on belt acts like rookery buff

[stone sparrow]

thanks

[mellow pilot]

Imagine the poor guy rarely playing his rogue, but when he does, the toon can't even rogue properly

[novel cipher]

🫂

[stone sparrow]

haha ya i literally have played enough to level through timewalking and thats about it but was terrible that it wasnt working

[mellow pilot]

Now you can sneaky sneaky

https://tenor.com/view/sneaky-sneak-sneaking-tom-and-gif-27661856

[novel cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-sneaky-sneaky-cat-cat-jumping-cute-gif-6246383672309895472

[stone sparrow]

still doing it as soon as i move so weird

[mellow pilot]

I want a clip

[novel cipher]

[mellow pilot]

If you have Windows 11, just screenrecord

[novel cipher]

Also strip your character naked for science

[fringe umbra]

Yes its your intellect dagger

Get an agility one

[mellow pilot]

It's that a meme or an actual thing

[novel cipher]

Wait that dagger does it?

Oh yeah it sure is an int dagger

[mellow pilot]

I saw people talk about it once or twice but I thought it was a meme

Is it a specific dagger?

[novel cipher]

Yer

[mellow pilot]

Oof

[novel cipher]

I really did mean to do it for science

[fringe umbra]

Well ye its not the int on the dagger thats doing it

Its the effect

[thin ferry]

any way to get plater style combo points in wa? i found a wago import but it doesnt show supercharged cp

[long ice]

you can set up conditions for charged combo points

and have it change the color/border/etc

[stone sparrow]

wouldnt let me upload cause its too big but when im getting a proc i have seen on my weakaura

[fringe umbra]

Whatttt

It literally removes your stealth every second

Just unequip it

Its also got intellect, so its useless

[thin ferry]

im a pretty big noob with wa so i don't think i can do it myself but thanks

[stone sparrow]

lol doh

[long ice]

https://wago.io/NU7q0dM4q you can copy the conditions from this one to see how its done

[stone sparrow]

i told you i never play this guy lol

thanks all sorry for the dumb question

[warm pagoda]

It wasn't a dumb questions, its fine!

[thin ferry]

hmm weird. i imported it and it doesnt show charged CP

[faint bough]

#wow-general message

i called it

[tardy cobalt]

Guys Hi i have a question

I just finished the questline for the dreadblades legion hidden artifact apperence aka thunderfury, hallowed blade of the windlord but it didnt appear in my transmogification?

I have restarted the game 2 times

[mellow pilot]

restart as in loggin logout or shut it down?=

[tardy cobalt]

I shut the game down then started it uop again

Wait it finally appeared yay nvm

It took me 4 restarts ;-;

[mild wasp]

for future reference that kind of thing is just delayed by up to 15 minutes sometimes

[icy pecan]

So UK people

how does it feel

To need a legal id

to use spotify

LOL

does this mean that Playing WoW

[fringe umbra]

This aint the place for that bud

[icy pecan]

needs a legal ID too?

my question is WOW related for UK people

HUH

[plush dune]

No he meant this isn't the place to bring up br*tish people

[ruby totem]

At least he didn't mention fr*nch people

[rustic tartan]

Is there an article where i can see all class changes for 11.2 updatet? On wowhead i can only find single articles covering the newest stuff and i'd have to seach and read multiple articles.

[fringe umbra]

Theres the big blizzard post but its segmented per ptr patch, they usually dont combine it until right before the patch

But if youre looking for rogue changes its literally just killing spree being changed and aura buffs

[rustic tartan]

All would be good, yeah, and the seperate thingy is a bit shitty. Thank you though, good to know there isn't

[plain pasture]

I remember seeing a google doc in previous tiers where they rolled up all patch notes into 1 area. Does that exist for 11.2 notes/does someone have the link?

[mighty hatch]

Yes but it’s gigA sus and kinda outdated

Linking it is just a diarrhea

Sorry auto correct

Disservice

[hybrid obsidian]

best spec for doing delves next week?

[mellow pilot]

Yes

Pick whatever, get m+ talents, kill stuff

[thorny widget]

bleed build assa or outlaw are good choices

[static verge]

what would be the go to raidspec rn with current tuning? im returning to rogue after some years

[mellow pilot]

Pick a spec you like

Ptr numbers do not matter

They can and will change

[faint bough]

and rogue parity is pretty good across the specs rn

(incomplete ptr parity dont listen to their lies)

[warm pagoda]

Listen to my lies instead. S3 is a sin tier.

[faint bough]

https://tenor.com/view/never-gonna-happen-breaking-bad-nope-no-way-hank-schrader-gif-4945261051704099839

[iron wharf]

[ember nest]

ehehe

[woeful geyser]

@glad harness yo

we need a Hammer here

[glad harness]

!ban @elder yarrow Spam

[woeful geyser]

[ember nest]

so close to panhand

[scenic flame]

should I hoard my valorstones or just spend them?

[mellow pilot]

i wouldnt spend them randomly

they wont get reset iirc

[cunning verge]

i hoarded hellcaller chests in hope that I have like 10000 valorstones sitting in them

[granite copper]

idk if the dragon flight mount drops are bugged, but I lit got every drake skin from each raid on my first try

wtf

[ember basin]

Which heirlooms are for rogue?

Im buying em rn

[spare dune]

Leather

[ember basin]

Yes but the stats and levels are all different so idk which ones <:(

I'm a mage, this is my first rogue

[spare dune]

If it has agility, probably good to go

You’ll upgrade them to max lvl anyway with the upgrade mats if that’s what you mean

[mellow pilot]

it literally does not matter

just get something

[ember basin]

This isn't helpful

[past yoke]

you just pick agility leather

and dagger/sword based on spec you want to level with

stats dont matter while leveling at all

[ember basin]

Does it matter what spec you play leveling? I know with mage, frost is the best one

[past yoke]

i dont know tbh, i level as sub bc is my fav spec

probably a good time to dip into specs and read talents as u level up

so like change specs when u feel like

[ember basin]

Ok outlaw it is

[past yoke]

then buy a sword

[ember basin]

Ok

[mellow pilot]

Yeah you don't care about stats at ALL while leveling

In the case of weapons, a sword for outlaw, dagger for sub and assa

[spare dune]

Sub is easy and fun leveling. Shadowstrike to teleport to enemies and mostly 1 tap them

[mellow pilot]

Agreed

In a scale of fun they are all 4 out of 10

[ember basin]

Ok Im looking at heirloom upgrading....Do I really have to buy each one and upgrade it? Why don't they just let you buy one and scale it?

Apparently its not worth upgrading at all :/ I guess Ill just give my alt the basic 1-29

Jesus

[past yoke]

yep

they were useful when it gave u 45% xtra xp or whatever

you can outgear them while doing dungeons now

[mellow pilot]

you can just level without them

they do not give extra EXP anymore

[ember basin]

I can, but I already bought them and they do reduce your rested consumption

So that makes leveling quicker

[mellow pilot]

It does, but with the amount of exp boosts already active, people are going 1-80 in 4/5 hours

[ember basin]

Are you kidding me? I was hoping to pace myself and do the legion campaign :(

Why everything gotta be so fast without a choice

Why can't fast and slow be choices!

[warm pagoda]

You can do chromie time and get through a chunk of the campaign

I did a character through outland recently and was able to pretty much full clear 4 zones of quests

[ember basin]

Thats what I was planning! Now Im worried tho it'll be so fast

I kinda like slow leveling lol

[warm pagoda]

Its only that fast if you're spamming timewalking at the moment

[ember basin]

Ok

[warm pagoda]

Like, don't get me wrong, it ain't SLOW, but it ain't 4-5 hours of speed.

Lemme log into that character and I'll give you the /played

But I'm the same, levelling is chill, 'do some quests, stick a show up on the other monitor' time for me

[sand stone]

Heyho, I'm trying to do in retail the legion class hall quest for getting the class mount with my level 80 human rogue. I now have the quest to kill a demon in undercity and the common google hits explain ways that doesn't work (undercity is full of venom, rocks block the entry in the hill, no "move me to another time" NPC) (and to have additional fun, after dying in the venom your ghost spawns in westfalll....) Can you help me? 🙂

[warm pagoda]

So like... 14-15 hours or so, no clue if I afk'd much during that time

[ember basin]

Yea! I wanted to pace myself cuz I got nothing else to do on my main 💀 I'm a world content kinda person so she's just basically chilling unless I go to farm a mount or a pet

[warm pagoda]

And that was purely quests while going through outland, your numbers may vary but it ain't that bad.

[ember basin]

That class hall quest is phased, the same is for horde and stormwind

You gotta talk to that lady Zudomi? She's by a tree

She has a spotlight on her

[sand stone]

as i said: there is no NPC

[ember basin]

Thats weird

[sand stone]

i have the "look i'm one of you" outfit, but there is no npc

[ember basin]

She's in a different location is why lol

/way #18 69.4 62.8 Zidormi if you use tomtom

[iron belfry]

i would go sub, its the most mobile and ez aoe access

damn forgot to tag the reply

cba

[warm pagoda]

If thats any help!

[sand stone]

is that in the other land? yes, there i talked to a NPC "bring me back to another time", but when flying back to udnercity, nothing changed

[ember basin]

Yea thats a glitch

I have to do it twice every time I go back as a mage

I talk to her, switch it once, switch it twice, you'll know when the map changes lol

For some reason she won't phase unless you phase into the future first and do the past twice

[sand stone]

I will try, thanks 🙂

[warm pagoda]

Okay I just spoke to the NPC and she doesn't have the option, weird.

[ember basin]

What

Ok now Im teleporting to UC, one sec

[warm pagoda]

Though maybe you have to do the 'reclaim the undercity' quests

[warm pagoda]

Ye I dunno

[thin edge]

Have you done the bfa intro? I had trouble with this and it fixed when i did it on the character

[warm pagoda]

Let me check on my main, may be tied behind a quest or some nonsense

[sand stone]

yes, that looks like how i remember the "talk" 😄

[ember basin]

Screenshare of how this is glitched lol

[sand stone]

no, i leveled with chromie in "legion" till i was kicked out the timeline with 71 (?)

[warm pagoda]

My rogue has the option so, my theory is its locked behind a quest. What quest this is, no clue.

[ember basin]

Deathknell is the undead starting zone

[sand stone]

Thank you! 🙂 (now my weekend plan is finished^^)

[ember basin]

Thats weird tho, I thought those quests would be "warbound"

[sand stone]

Have a good night and many thanks for your helps!

[orchid plover]

Looking into starting my first rouge. Which spec is the easiest to learn/play for season three?

[meager totem]

assa

[orchid plover]

Ya?

[mellow pilot]

assa

[faint bough]

assa

[upper veldt]

ass

[orchid plover]

suggestion on which talent tree in assa?

[inland gale]

Noob

[inland gale]

DS is the meta hero talent. Unless you mean like which specifically

[meager totem]

[static epoch]

the only heirlooms I found to be somewhat useful are weapons
everything else barely matters and/or you get lots of anyway

[analog pollen]

The answer to this question is shadowlands btw

Your whole undercity problem gets fixed by doing shadowlands garbage iirc, I'm very late to this conversation tho

[tight edge]

do we know if undercoins reset on patch day or season start?

[faint bough]

i think that might be the first time this question has ever been aske

[mellow pilot]

im pretty sure they will reset before the new items appear on the vendor

[tight edge]

hey thats what this general chat is for 🙂

[faint bough]

oh no i dont judge it was just like, i havent thought of undercoins in decades

[tight edge]

ye i guess, and new items will appear on vendor on patch day i think

just noticed i had a few, dont wanna waste them if i can make some gold

[faint bough]

https://tenor.com/view/omg-wat-dafuq-huh-wth-gif-9101314

[neon glen]

250k

[tight edge]

you could say im a bit of a delve enjoyer

[faint bough]

you should battle Weran

[neon glen]

on ptr they are 0, so they do reset for suuuure

[ember nest]

wao

[faint bough]

what can we do with them before patch

i dont even know what they buy besides the guaranteed map thingy

[tight edge]

you can buy the reagent pouch, gives 3 random delve reagents

not worth a lot anymore

but was good gold in previous seasons

well, s1

[neon glen]

before or after the tinderbox changes?

[rare surge]

20th anniversary event?

[tight edge]

back in s1 the reagents went for ~500g each

now its like 50g max

[faint bough]

my friends told me not to sell my tinderboxes at the end of s1 and wait for s2 cause they thought it was gonna spike once people were doing professions more

lost so much gold

i hate them

[neon glen]

remember when they were going for thousands each

[mellow pilot]

"friends"

[neon glen]

I bet your friends made bank

[ember basin]

Hey guys

Just curious

Cuz the mage discord loves trolling with me

Who is Whysper?

[plush dune]

Idk some idiot

[ember basin]

How you know they're an idiot if you don't know them

Very suspicious sir

[ember basin]

Can I ask a very odd question....do you have a paladin?

[plush dune]

I'm very good at guessing

[plush dune]

I have one of every class

[ember basin]

Is his name Beledor?

[plush dune]

Not even remotely no

[ember basin]

Ok

Nvm then

[surreal pumice]

!fuu

[ionic forum]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[mental lantern]

Do we have any idea what specs are gonna be doing good in raid and M+ yet?

[ember basin]

Rogues

Is it fine if I use the starter build as I level? or should I be talenting my own stuff?

There is so much on my hotbar now too with Outlaw 💀

[warm pagoda]

Yeah that's fine, I'm not sure what the starter build for outlaw does but levelling is kinda silly because half the mobs die in a couple of globabls

[ember basin]

Basically this so far lol

And my hotbar turned into a mess 💀 I gotta read these and see what I should put what and where

[worldly forge]

of this abilites, you only use 2

for dmg

as rotation

[ember basin]

Wym? You don't use the poisons?

I assume you mean evasion

[worldly forge]

You do, but you click them once every our

You use Sinister and Eviscerate

[ember basin]

Wait its an hour?!?!

[worldly forge]

rest is irrelevant for DMG rotation

[noble kestrel]

Someday it'll become a toggle....

[ember basin]

So why tell me to use evasion?

[worldly forge]

Evasion is defense

Eviscerate is the Finisher

[ember basin]

Would you be mad if I told you that rogues used to make them as a class profession and it used to be a "buff"

[ember basin]

Why is it a finisher?

[worldly forge]

You Button 2

on your bar

[noble kestrel]

Because it spends combo points to do damage.

[glad harness]

[noble kestrel]

Builder = generates combo points
FInisher = spends combo points.

[ember basin]

Ok ok Im getting it now, sort of lol

[worldly forge]

Ohhh

[ember basin]

I say sort of cuz you can tell Im so used to mage lmao my primary directive is pressing defensives

[worldly forge]

Good thing rogue has almost none

Cloak and feint

[ember basin]

Oh god

Lmao

How do you guys avoid dying?

[worldly forge]

and in rare occasions Evasion

[glad harness]

Skill

[worldly forge]

Cheat Death, and praying to god and the healers

[warm pagoda]

We're still pretty hard to kill in raid anyhow

[ember basin]

Damn, I play fire mage so I have 5 defensives and a cheat death

[worldly forge]

AND MIGHTY CRIMSON VIAL (For legal Reasons this is a joke, because crimson vial is almost useless)

[noble kestrel]

I found a use for it yesterday

[ember basin]

Oh, should I take it off my bar?

[worldly forge]

You can use it for Openworld stuff

[noble kestrel]

No, it's a useful button to have. It's just not as substanial a defensive as it should be.

[ember basin]

Ok, which poison should I keep?

They both seem similar

[noble kestrel]

Toss both and grab the actual slide-out thing instead

[worldly forge]

you use both, you can have one lethal and one non-lethal poison

[noble kestrel]

It'll look like this in your skill page:

[ember basin]

Ok wait, so do you like use them like an arcane intellect buff? or is it put on in combat?

[warm pagoda]

Like a buff

[ember basin]

Ok

[warm pagoda]

Just sling it on and you have them for an hour

[ember basin]

Ok

More questions lmao

1. When do you use slice and dice?
2. Do you kick the same way I use Counterspell?

[noble kestrel]

Kick is your interrupt. S&D will be automatically cast when you Eviserate / Dispatch / Envenom eventually via another passive you get so you can just ignore it.

[worldly forge]

You have to be in melee

to kick

and its an interrupt like counterspell

[ember basin]

Well, yea ofc but Im asking if I manage it the same

[worldly forge]

yeah

[ember basin]

Cuz with CS, I tend to use a plater thing that color codes who I should interrupt

Its blue mage color

[noble kestrel]

It's an interrupt. You use it like an interrupt. Not much else to say about it.

[worldly forge]

The Passive is called "Cut to the chase" iirc and only if you have this S&D doesnt have to be pressed

[noble kestrel]

You get it relatively early on while leveling these days, I forget when. But since every spec has it you can just ignore S&D from the get-go imo.

[ember basin]

I know its a stupid question but I like to be thorough and not misunderstand things. I want to do things right

[ember basin]

Im lvl 10 and haven't gotten it yet but I'll remember this

[warm pagoda]

I think like level 11

[noble kestrel]

Yeah, it's reeally early (which is funny)

[warm pagoda]

Because I saw someone mention about getting it at 11 and not having envenom til 12

[worldly forge]

You are funny

[ember basin]

Y'all were right

Crimson vial is useless

[mellow pilot]

Yesnt, it's a heal every 30 secs

Not an amazing one, but one nontheless

[warm pagoda]

Some heal is better than no heal

[worldly forge]

In any content with a healer its useless

[ember basin]

I used it in the shore quest and it barely healed me 😭

[warm pagoda]

My healing parse says otherwise

[mellow pilot]

It always heals the same

It's written in the tooltip

[ember basin]

Why doesn't it scale up??? Thats so bad

It should scale up the higher level you are

[mellow pilot]

Isn't it a % heal?

Like 30% heal over time

[ember basin]

20%

[mellow pilot]

Oh there is talents that increase it

On the rogue tree

[worldly forge]

20% over 5seconds

Which is bad

[mellow pilot]

@ember basin non rogue related but you now have access to a acc wide ability on your general spells named something like recuperate, you can basically use that to heal between fights

[ember basin]

Yea I noticed that! I thought it was a new thing they added to elves at first lmao

[mellow pilot]

It's a pretty good tool overall with no CD

[ember basin]

Out of all the rogues

They couldn't be more discreet???

[noble kestrel]

25% over 4 seconds.

It's useful, but could be stronger.

[mellow pilot]

Only you can see him because she is that sneaky

[ember basin]

Lmao this campaign is already so funny, Milton's "guild" made me laugh

"Giver of beatings"

I knew the mage one is great but this is funny

LMAO

Yes his name is Doflamingo

[mellow pilot]

Like it should be

https://tenor.com/view/one-piece-donquijote-doflamingo-dressrosa-marineford-anime-gif-19752754

[upper veldt]

@mellow pilot @noble kestrel

[mellow pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/me-funny-laugh-trying-not-gif-27610582

[ember basin]

Me when I use that exact toy on my tank

[obtuse talon]

Unsure if the right place to ask these sort of questions, but what ui's you lads use? i often find myself jumping between the various premade/streamer ones and a basic one with actionbar in the middle and various weakauras around. but im never satisfied as in content with what ive made or got.

[ember basin]

Basic wow UI with edit mode and some WA's

Fancy stuff makes your latency lag behind

[frigid monolith]

what spec does look better for future raid tier?

[obtuse talon]

something akin to this?

[ember basin]

Yea sort of, I mean mine is entirely different but yea basically

I don't use fancy ui plugins cuz I'm also a fire mage

The input lag is atrocious with those

My APM is delayed if I do

[obtuse talon]

does it really affect input lag?

[ember basin]

You can see if it use logs to check your input

[ember basin]

It did for me, I can't speak for you cuz idk your PC but I have a pretty decent one for running big games and I noticed it when I was looking at my spells in my logs

[warm pagoda]

I tried to blend in

[ember basin]

It was behind by like a whole 2 seconds, it was bad for fire mage

[obtuse talon]

ah so you mean you press something and then you could notice the lag before it was cast? that seems to be a major issue yeah

[ember basin]

It won't show on screen, but yea, it has a gap in the logs

[obtuse talon]

i got a 7800x3d cpu which is pretty good though i do notice a slight difference with full uis such as naowhs

[ember basin]

I know people who use those ANYWAY (mostly elvui) but that's your choice, I'm only saying it can provide a delay in your rotation

[spare ember]

if you dont notice it in game, but just notice gaps in logs, that sounds more like your spell queue window was set too low

[ember basin]

I have not changed my sqw lol the mages advise not to

Keep it at the standard 400

But if you don't care about the delay, use whatever you want, don't let me stop you

[warm pagoda]

Your first mistake was listening to mages. Maniacs. The lot of them.

[spare ember]

yeah, i dont use many addons, or elvui anyway.
but, just never come accross that before, usually if you had some addon lag youd feel it in game

[ember basin]

:( I'm a mage

[warm pagoda]

You're a mage in recovery.

[ember basin]

But you're right, they are 🤣

[ember basin]

Wdym 😭 I know they bully and troll but they're sweet sometimes

[warm pagoda]

You're one of us now.

[ember basin]

It's input lag, not lag lag

[warm pagoda]

Which is arguably worse

[ember basin]

Input lag is a delay in the input of you pressing your spells

[mellow pilot]

Who knows

[spare ember]

yeah, ive had that before, but i can feel input lag in game 🤷

[ember basin]

🥹 aww that's so sweet

Tbf tho I should warn y'all, I have fragile x syndrome (so long story short I'm on the spectrum) so I might ask stupid questions with the innocent intent of genuinely not knowing

And people accuse me of trolling 💀 because I'm ignorant

[mellow pilot]

People who make questions are less stupid than the ones who don't

[warm pagoda]

Nah its fine, its good to ask questions!

[ember basin]

When I was learning current fire mage, the mages were mad at me cuz I used a marker for my cast car to understand when I should press my fire blast to double pyro

Cuz I didn't understand the exact timing

[mellow pilot]

[ember basin]

I literally turned it into like a mini game and they were angy

I still have it btw, idc

It works

I double pyro every time

[mellow pilot]

What I always tell to newcomers is:

• most of your questions will be answered in the guides.
• if you still have questions, check the specific spec channels and ask there, people are usually happy to help.

!guides

[ionic forum]

Rogue Guides:
WoWhead: https://www.wowhead.com/classes#rogue
Icy Veins: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/class-guides
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides

[ember basin]

I'll look at the guides when I'm done leveling

[mellow pilot]

Until then you don't need to yeah

[ember basin]

I'm at lvl 11 and I'm slowly just learning what the spells do

Like reading them and stuff

[mellow pilot]

Reading the abilities no cap is amazing

[ember basin]

That's why I chose legion's campaign

Cuz nothing is better than the class halls imo

[mellow pilot]

I totally agree

Amen to legion

[ember basin]

I hope we go back eventually, the fact Xala'feet is correlated with the priest gives me hope

I miss my hall

[mellow pilot]

I just wish they double down on class halls

One of the best things ever

[warm pagoda]

Yeah, I loved it. Also the sewers were cozy as fuck

Back in wotlk my PC was crap and would crash in Dalaran if it was busy, but the sewers were safe so I lived in there

[noble kestrel]

hell eyah

[ember basin]

I went back to the sewers to help my friend who has bad directional sense do the lost mail quest cuz he wanted Katy

And I had a hunter camp us a few times 💀

We did manage to get out but they were just lonely down there, I assume they were trying to get the rat mount and we were the only ones there

[worldly forge]

https://tenor.com/view/keanu-reeves-woah-xbox-one-breathtaking-gif-14309950

[mellow pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/alexis-rose-gif-6689866510033848265

[mellow pilot]

I just noticed your bio

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[ember basin]

Lmao what about it?

[mellow pilot]

The Shrek part

LOL

[ember basin]

Hehe yea 🤣

[mellow pilot]

Tbf when was Shrek 2 released

[worldly forge]

Could also write

Dont talk to me, if wow is older than you

[ember basin]

2004

[warm pagoda]

[mellow pilot]

I'm certainly a Shrek 1 boy

[warm pagoda]

I'm older than that its fine but that's 21 GODDAMN YEARS AGO WTF

[worldly forge]

You are as sexy as shrek, boy

[mellow pilot]

Yes I am

[ember basin]

I'm exposing myself here but I am in fact born before 2000

[worldly forge]

Many are

[warm pagoda]

So are me and Royal

[mellow pilot]

how long before

[worldly forge]

Here

[warm pagoda]

And a bunch of others

[worldly forge]

Old fucks in this discord

[ember basin]

3 years before

[mellow pilot]

Oh you're still a bit younger than me

95

[warm pagoda]

And Royal is younger than me

93

[ember basin]

Holy shit

93?!?

[mellow pilot]

You're still prettier than me