subtlety

[lilac stag]

Melee was no mechanics

[supple pawn]

Its probably the confirmation bias of "argh this fight ranged just gap us so much"

Like it was painful to play Amirdrassil and just watch the boomy and Destro do 300k when the next highest dps does 120k

[fleet wharf]

I was thinking mroe about the ratio

[supple pawn]

Or not 120k

[dire ravine]

It can be very non-engaging at times, then you realize you needed to move 30ft ~2-3 seconds ago and you’re scrambling. Good casting involves a bit of preplanning and micro adjustments.

[fleet wharf]

I guess it's more tuning issue

[supple pawn]

Something silly

[supple pawn]

Right, higher skill higher reward?

[tepid trellis]

yet you had Assa+sub being the two best specs in the game during that tier

[hollow spear]

idk, I was pumping on the last two bosses, no tuning issues there

[supple pawn]

YEAH I REMEMBER WATCHING SUB POP OFF ON SMOLDIE HAHA

[deft lynx]

Just play hunter, no pre planning on movement, pure vibes 0 chaos

[supple pawn]

I do want to preface again I'm not upset with casters 😭

[fleet wharf]

I mean yea sub was great on those, but weren't there way more ranged compared to melees on the harder bosses?

[supple pawn]

I'm just interested in this as a discussion piece/to learn

[supple pawn]

I play hunter but I play the melee one

[fleet wharf]

you have chosen pain/violence. I am sorry to hear that

[deft lynx]

The only ranged I play is hunter bc it feels like its the melee of the ranged world in a weird way

[supple pawn]

Eh, I mean with midnight changes it brought me here lol

I'm not the most happy with the direction of the spec

Sentinel? Great, feels good

Pack leader? Please rework

[tepid trellis]

this is fyrakk

6 ranged

vs 8 melee

[supple pawn]

Who's that rogue in between secretly and nepixr

[fleet wharf]

Sorry to hear that, sucks when they change spec directions. I miss the TWW incarnation of sub as well

[tepid trellis]

cant tell he is in stealth sorry

[supple pawn]

Shi

[fleet wharf]

right, that is the other side of the coin, I'm not saying all of them are anti melee, I just don't think manaforge was melee favored

[supple pawn]

Dude S1 survival was peak. And then they took our fangs

We over performed so we had to be fucking shit next patch

S3 was better but still

[fleet wharf]

well to be honest, I feel surv (at least perception wise) has been shit forever and ever

[supple pawn]

I mean we did the top ST in the game! In a raid tier where that didn't mean that much

It was good for mugzee I guess

Absolutely horrible AOE

I hear from a key pusher in there that survival was probably one of the worst specs for keys in S2

[fleet wharf]

is there anyone who got title as a surv player in recent memory?

[supple pawn]

Depends if you mean performance or gameplay. Its a worse position than rogue because it needs both to be the best DPS because it doesn't give utility, but also has to be the best hunter because you'd rather just have a hunter that's ranged

[tepid trellis]

id say dimensius was due to tuning

[supple pawn]

Raidwise at least

[tepid trellis]

you need ele shamans

for p1

[dire ravine]

Banshers?

[tepid trellis]

before the nerfs

[fleet wharf]

I thought he played ranged?

[supple pawn]

He plays survival

[fleet wharf]

I don't follow hunters that closely so I just legit duno

[dire ravine]

He plays all 3 I believe.

And I think he’s gotten title on all 3, as well

[fleet wharf]

I'm not complaining too much, dimmy was a fantastic fight for sub and I really enjoyed progging and killing that boss as sub

[deft lynx]

TWW S3 title metrics

[supple pawn]

Yeah 0% survival sounds about right

But yeah like

Survival was pretty good in S1 TWW, definitely the best hunter for M+ that season

[flint gust]

Sooo for ass/sub should we be crafting the dagger this week or nah?

[supple pawn]

The notorious SL S4 ofc but S3 DF I think it was pretty good too, just worse than BM by a longshot because BM was stupid AF that tier

[fleet wharf]

if you want to play either spec, yea go craft your dagger

[supple pawn]

SV is looking to be about as good as MM last I checked

But, tuning inc so

[fleet wharf]

if you are 100% sure about sub, you can prolly do haste/mastery, I did crit/haste so i can swap if needed/preferred

[flint gust]

Tuning was announced, but sub seems to still be to go to right? No changes to ass or outlaw

[hollow spear]

What are our bets on which of these specs has the highest % of boosted players?

[fleet wharf]

there will likely be more tuning passes before mythic launches, but at the moment, I think sub is the way to go

[outer cloak]

Thanks

[shadow hamlet]

hi,

Is this bug bellow is still happening on live ?

[supple pawn]

Could someone theoretically have pushed title as arms, aug or survival that season?

[flint gust]

cheers, ty ❤️

[hollow spear]

Yes and it probably won't get fixed anytime soon

[fleet wharf]

wouldnt that depend on who you play with? but I'd imagine so, no?

[supple pawn]

Idk Ive only ever gotten 3k because I accept I wouldn't ever get title so I don't give a shit to actually try pushing

[tepid trellis]

you can get title on all specs

its not that difficult

[fleet wharf]

me neither, but in your hypothetical question, if you're playing with 4 other best players in the world, you can prolly make one of the abovementioned specs work

[supple pawn]

So I can get carried to hall of fame I just need to sell out my government to Echo

[fleet wharf]

i mean you dont need echo to carry tou to title lmao

like there are excel sheets circulating showing ppl who got carried to title last season and s2

[grand wyvern]

I don't understand why they don't make title a per spec top 0.1%, it would just be healthier

[supple pawn]

o.o wha, why

[tepid trellis]

ive gotten title on sub when it was considered "trash"

[fleet wharf]

esp in europe, i hear there is a huge issue with ppl demanding tips to share their resilient keys

[supple pawn]

I assume it's because it's group content. Its the same thing with 3s r1

Whereas for Solo Shuffle and Blitz R1 its spec based

[fleet wharf]

but with the system in place, it' becomes more about "buying" your way in or just ramming your head against the key until you luckily time it

[supple pawn]

Ah, Ive heard about that

Forgot about it lol

[fleet wharf]

like even if you have 3% chance to time a particular key, if it's resilient, you can just keep spamming it until you get that magical run

i think that's the biggest gripe title pushers have about the resilient system, which seems pretty fair tbh

[still gazelle]

You're only EVER using SecTec with SD right?

[fleet wharf]

yup

[supple pawn]

God I remember people in lemix trying to sell +30 carried :/

[whole atlas]

Does the 4 piece tier set help with aoe nerfs at all ?

[supple pawn]

I don't even know our tier set I should look at it

[grand wyvern]

One more argument for solo queue in my book 🙂

[plush roost]

Yes but also the sims account for the tier set so its not like anything truly changes from it

Ur sblades will flurry harder, your finishers will do more dam simple as

[whole atlas]

Thanks

[lofty cave]

anyone know wats best craft for sub roguie rn if i got m0 wepons?

[torn tide]

i cant believe i just watched a video of Whispyr explain all 3 rogue specs tunings in 6mins, insanely in depth explanation of the sin ones too

[fleet wharf]

sim yourself, but prolly still weapon

[crystal igloo]

259 item goes hard

[torn tide]

https://youtu.be/t-i1HXBhRss?si=l439cTpM605nAjxl

pure peak

[still gazelle]

In Keys, do you always break stealth with Shadowstrike or Shuriken storm if there's more than two targets?

[narrow shadow]

Glad we're now the laughing stock of the community, at least I can finally wear the Harlequin transmog and make it accurate

[lofty cave]

when yall sim do yall do multiple targets or jus 1

which one matter more when deciding upgrades

[fleet wharf]

what do you care about? m+ or raid?

[vale pine]

its not a bug

you introduce a small delay after a cast

[finite crow]

Time to reroll druid ig

[shrewd lantern]

i mean it was pretty obvious it was coming

bp spam on big pulls was kind of gross

[rotund bone]

is it worth crafting the 259 wep now or waiting for s1 for better crests?

[narrow shadow]

And then devourer doing double the damage

[shrewd lantern]

that wasnt really the case in beta keys

unless the average dumb m+er who presses evis over bp

because "prio"

[ocean stump]

hey guys im new here what the rogue buffs lookin like what are we simming now ?

[marble quartz]

Anyone noticed a weird bug where if you dance into evis with the apex talent it just doesn't trigger ?

[shrewd lantern]

raid buff, minigame nerf as per the pins

[vale pine]

slightly better st, but we lose some aoe

[vale pine]

!premed

[wicked jolt]

There is a bug that makes it so while Premeditation is active you cannot get a refund nor spawn the clone from Ancient Arts. This is not something you need to play around, as using Ancient Arts of Secret Technique is about the same value as using it on a regular Eviscerate.

[marble quartz]

K thx

[frail kindle]

good morning friends any fellow doomers

[vale pine]

no dooming

single target bufff is good

even tho i don't think the aoe nerfs ended up needed

[arctic abyss]

compared to other class aoes ... no its not

[vale pine]

single trget is relevant in raid, so we doing fine

[heady garden]

Kinda sad for the 3 target fight but eh

[shrewd lantern]

the nerf hit bp spam which was

[frail kindle]

i mean thats the main reason why im dooming, i didnt do testing personally so i cant say with certainty but i was under the impresion that there was a LOT of cleave/aoe in this raid tier

[shrewd lantern]

long extended aoe

that doesnt happen in raid

[heady garden]

Not as sad as the state of sin so we take those

[brazen meadow]

Is there an updated target count on using black powder?

[grand wyvern]

aren't we worse in 2-3 targets too since we finish with bp?

[vale pine]

i mean, other classes got nerfed too

[vale pine]

probably stays the same

we will need to see the actual change

the real change many times looks diffrent in implementation

[brazen meadow]

I thought it may get bumped up to 4 or 5 considering it was sizeable nerf

[shrewd lantern]

honestly bigger st buff and not target nimble with a nerf

and things would have been ideal

[heady garden]

it's not that bad lol

[shrewd lantern]

though buffing backstab

is fucking funny

[grand wyvern]

as long as I don't have to go outlaw in raid it's alright

[shrewd lantern]

20% of 0

is still 0

[heady garden]

nimble probably stays similar damage due to buffs to all it's flurried components

but it means more ST also

[maiden steppe]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
Here is a macro to make it easier to fit all of your globals into your Shadow Dances:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Secret Technique

Deathstalker likes to use this macro instead:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Shuriken Storm

This can be combines with trinkes and other cooldown use.

/cast Shadow Blades
/use 13
/use 14
/use Tempered Potion
/cast Ancestral Call

Trickster Rogues can combine Coup de Grace and Black Powder in one button:

/cast Coup de Grace
/cast Black Powder

You can find more macros and details in Guides like WoWhead or Icy Veins.

[chrome palm]

Evis was only buffed 8%

So nimble was reduced a good bit

[heady garden]

autos were also buffed 15%, and unseen blade by 20%

[south sedge]

think you would need a buff of 30% to offset the nimble nerf

none of the abilities were buffed that much so still a net nerf

[chrome palm]

These are very small abilities

[heady garden]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[chrome palm]

Also, even if we look at just auto attacks or just unseen blade, it’s less damage

[onyx flame]

I just like how calm you stay all the time while everybody here looses their mind. Sub will be fine

[vale pine]

Secret tech was not nerfed

and most of the adds in raid need to be blown up

nerfing bp hurts our sustained aoe more

which means, subtlety ideally becomes better for raid

for mthic+ its rly hard to predict

but from history, subtlety was always nerfed it if had competitive aoe

[grand wyvern]

our role is still big padder

[olive canyon]

Mind if i ask what you mean here? would it not be a matter of just tweaking numbers?

[vale pine]

so i assume the dev team is again afraid that the aoe capacity is too good

[chrome palm]

Our aoe was very strong in m+ last season but it still wasn’t enough

[vale pine]

A lot of changes can be incomplete

its a bit of a complicated topic

[chrome palm]

So I don’t think that sub has much chance in m+

[vale pine]

but ill try to explain it by giving some context

back in BfA/legion

you had evis rank 2

[olive canyon]

appreciate the attempt

[vale pine]

which was just "evis does more damage"

so every time you buffed evis

you had no other spells that would be impacted

it made it easy for the devs to not make any mistake

[arctic abyss]

me personally i dont care - as long as its competitive with all the other classes and not a big gap between it and others

[vale pine]

now, this changed in shadowlands, where diffrent people started working on the spec

so they removed evis rank 2

and added find weakness

and a new interaction

any target affected by find weakness would get extra shadow damage from evis

this now adds a dependency

[hard trellis]

ofc not. its cooked

[olive canyon]

would coup be a dependency now as well?

[vale pine]

because now you need find weakness to deal the same damage, which isn't always up but also how the shadow damage is calculated

now we have even more stuff like this with clone attacks

etc.

it just more or less got worse, because more and more spells get triggered/stacked

so to come to the point

any of this spells is part of the overall damage

[heady garden]

not sure why they dont just convert our fw damage to shadowstrike damage so we dont have this janky seperate damage instances

[olive canyon]

so the issue may be that when they say Evis is buffed by 15%, that doesnt necessarily mean all of it and certainly not anything that has its dmg linked or predicated to it

[vale pine]

and any of it might require manual updates or specific changes to get the 10% buff

so a 10% buff to evis

might not work on the clone attacks, or might not be included in the sahdow part

etc.

[south pelican]

Guys they buffed backstab, we are chillin 😎

[tepid trellis]

stab stab

[vale pine]

so we basically need to see what was changed, to figure out if its actually working as intended

or if we need to add a bug to the tracker

^^

[heady garden]

any time bs gets buffed these unshowered gloomblade enjoyers come creeping back in

[olive canyon]

Interesting, thanks

[supple pawn]

What's the point of gloomblade

Why does gloomblade exist

[tepid trellis]

flavour and no positional requirement like backstab

[supple pawn]

Ohh, gotcha

[tepid trellis]

and ofc gets amped by some of our talents

cuz its shadow dmg

[supple pawn]

Can we corrupt the Sunwell?

Sounds fun

Alright I know scath shanked my guts out for asking for which to play, is there any sort of content I can do to figure if I'd enjoy playing X class or sub more

[brisk onyx]

Does this mean that "BP -12%" might only nerf the physical part?

[vale pine]

ye

might be only the physical damage

can happen

[supple pawn]

Type shit

[olive canyon]

the nimble thing is the only thing that rubs me wrong, not sure its needed.

[teal plaza]

Whispyr's video on the rogue changes was peak

[grave forge]

How often should we actually try to proc the ancient arts apex talent nowadays? i read the FAQ but it still feels up in the air when it's worth to spend or do an extra generator before?

[hollow spear]

My hope is that they're consistent. If they messed up buffing the shadow part of evis, then hopefully they also messed up nerfing the shadow part of bp.

[lilac stag]

Only watching it if it’s over a hour

[supple pawn]

Track shadow tech stacks

[strange chasm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

I’m gonna flip a coin before every pull to decide if I force apex or not

Bc that’s what the robot does when it wants to figure out if it’s worth to do or not

[grand wyvern]

fatebound sub arrived?

[lilac stag]

Nah. Outlaw tier

[grave forge]

So ignore it if i got less than 5 stacks and spend? There's a case for pooling for the next dance though?

[teal plaza]

It's like 6-7 minutes

[supple pawn]

What are y'all doing though if DS is buffed into the stratosphere

[teal plaza]

Well worth it though

[supple pawn]

That's how I understand it

[lilac stag]

Ignore everything until the changes get sorted

[red flame]

is there any reason to wait til S1 start to craft or am i fine to go ahead & craft my dagger now?
asking bc i remember on wowhead it said its better to wait but i cant actually remember the reason why

[lilac stag]

just press buttons. It’s m0

[grand wyvern]

i roll my face on the keyboard

[grave forge]

craft weapon, bis

[hollow spear]

But scath. What if I have 11 stacks of sht, the moon shines through my leftmost window and I have a pizza in the oven that is about to burn. Do I press shadow strike or do I finish?

[soft grotto]

Hi, im an outlaw main trying the sublety spec, why i feel it weird playing it? i cant describe what im doing, and i looks simple, yet hard bc i dont know what im doing but im doing dmg

[swift tinsel]

In that case you spin backwards into a cabbage patch and press yellow

[grand wyvern]

you finish the pizza

[hollow spear]

Only correct answer.

Which will also get me booted out of the raid.

[lilac stag]

should have had food prepped and ready before raid.

Watch boss videos during raid.

[honest void]

force a breaktime by saying your cat died

and then go get ur pizza sorted

[hollow spear]

I think it might be a niche

[red flame]

eating during trash is the real play

[swift tinsel]

If you die to boss melee on pull the whole thing becomes a raid video

[red flame]

[hollow spear]

Asmr boss guide to fall asleep to

[grand wyvern]

i am out of cats to kill

[wheat edge]

Does my rotation switch as night elf when it changes from day to night during raid and my racial swaps?

[honest void]

well

[lilac stag]

Did you get 36% haste?

[honest void]

time to get more then

[hollow spear]

Then you don't finish the pizza, you strike it

[wheat edge]

Idk I cant read

[supple pawn]

Does my rotation change if I play outlaw with a dagger?

[hollow spear]

You'll find out real quick

[supple pawn]

Why are there worms crawling in through my window

It used to be leeches

[hollow spear]

Might be the elite in sts 2

[supple pawn]

Now it's just worms 😭

Oh wait are these leeches

They skinny af tho

[hollow spear]

What addons would you guys consider invaluable at this point in time?

[supple pawn]

This is 100% a worm

Wtf is this dumbass doing in here

[zenith hollow]

in the opener do you just send the 2nd dance when off cd or wait for sectech to comeback?

[onyx flame]

Atlasloot

[supple pawn]

THERES ANOTHER ONE IN THE WINDOW 😭

[hollow spear]

Wait you're for real haha

[supple pawn]

YES

there's worms coming out my window

[shrewd lantern]

vet crests can only upgrade vet gear right

[tulip light]

Yes

[onyx flame]

Where tf do you live?

[supple pawn]

Australia

[shrewd lantern]

so basically use them on m0 gear is fine

ig

[tribal vortex]

yes but you can keep to practically exchange for 20 champ

you can take a vet 6/6 and then champ 2/6 will be free

[tulip light]

Well Australia says it all

[tribal vortex]

same with adventurer to vet

[tulip light]

Devils zoo land

[onyx flame]

If the world would be an MMO , Australia would be the endgame zone.

[tribal vortex]

Australia would be like Undermine no one interadcting with it

[supple pawn]

Usually it's leeches that come out my window when it's this time of year

[shrewd lantern]

because its the same tier isnt it

of ilvl

[supple pawn]

But for some reason it's worms tonigjt 😭

[serene sierra]

do we have sub sims for single

[tribal vortex]

yeah same ilvl

[supple pawn]

How did they even climb up to the window

[shrewd lantern]

thought you meant the trade up crest system

idk if that got axed

[tribal vortex]

this also but it doesn't bypass cap

while this way you save some crests every week

[shrewd lantern]

true

[tribal vortex]

(most value would be hero for myth in practice)

[shrewd lantern]

that means its basically better to finish a lower track

technically

[tribal vortex]

I'd say yes but still if you have hero 1/6 it may not be worth it to take it to 6/6 to save 20 myth

but in most cases it seems to be the way

[shrewd lantern]

moreso this week

[tribal vortex]

yeah I think this week it will always be

these crests are ultra useless

[shrewd lantern]

although the sweaty option is to hoard honor for next week

[tribal vortex]

but also champ crests are also kinda useless but a bit less

[shrewd lantern]

to make 259 socket pvp bracers

well bracers+belt

[tribal vortex]

im waiting for mythic week I think

[supple pawn]

!haste

[wicked jolt]

Secret Technique cooldown gets reduced by all haste sources, while Shadow Dance only from haste which increases your baseline haste. When using a haste trinket, make sure to use it before Shadow Dance to get the extended duraiton.

[supple pawn]

!breakpoint

shi

found it

[stuck bear]

yo guys, I've been doing some pvp and was wondering if you think we also need to stack some haste?

[quaint vapor]

Does it look like we're going to be using the same builds after tues?

[charred pawn]

Yes around 18%

[stuck bear]

thanks!

[shrewd lantern]

its mostly along the lines of thinking a 259 socket bracer embellished has decent value

especially since bracer such a small slot

[tribal vortex]

yy i agree about 2nd item yeah

[vestal escarp]

weird nerfs to bp

[tribal vortex]

i wanna wait check the drops the first days and then craft a slot i wasn't lucky

[hollow spear]

You basically don't mess things up by crafting a bracer. You got a low stat budget item and get the embellishment, which brings value.

[tribal vortex]

y I understand but if i get wrist from m+ and not belt for example i craft belt

also waiting for prices to drop a bit

[obsidian dew]

That's not how it works. If you have a 1/6 mythic item, you can upgrade that 1/6 hero to 6/6 hero for 20 hero crests

And it will be worth it 100% of the time

[tribal vortex]

aaaah you are right didn't think of that (apart from the rings trinkets weapons)

[hollow spear]

In the end the difference kinda negligible at this point. Stuff gets way more important with heroic and mythic crests.

[south dock]

if you have a vet 6/6 you can upgrade a hero piece to 2/6 right

[dense geode]

yes

[obsidian dew]

Champion, not hero

[south dock]

ah myb u right

[obsidian dew]

Vet saves champ, champ saves hero, hero saves myth

[hollow spear]

And what does myth save?

The world?

[steel zinc]

First dance tracker

[hushed roost]

myth saves sub rogue

[obsidian dew]

It lets you beat the shit out of a naaru

[hollow spear]

Sounds promising

[hollow spear]

Interesting, will look into that

[shrewd lantern]

the idea is also that pvp bracers use a different socket item

[hollow spear]

I've done the pvp grind the last seasons and I feel like I can't do it anymore

Maybe I'll do it over watching paint dry

[wraith girder]

Rough aoe nerf boys

[edgy socket]

Why does icy vein talent guide chooses numbing over atrophy poison? Isn't atrophy the go to buff?

[shrewd lantern]

might be m+ build

[torn tide]

is numbing better in m+

[thick jasper]

u just pick what u need

higher keys u prolly only see atro

but numbing can be good

[shrewd lantern]

yeah generally numbing is better in lower content

[hazy breach]

Idk i think numbing is better in higher keys too

Unless you are specifically aiming to not get oneshot, at which point atrophic is good

[grand wyvern]

in pugs i don't see atrophic ever getting better

but healer will scream if you don't use it sometimes

[tribal vortex]

in pugs not taking numbing is kinda inting

with a pre-made and high keys a case could be made about atro but numbing generally safer

[quasi dove]

guys, you craft dagger?

[hot seal]

Do we have any idea how much the ST buffs are in 5?

%?

[frail gyro]

https://klipy.com/gifs/check-the-pins-kowalski-1

[hot seal]

[light elbow]

interested in this but can't find it is this the right name?

[steel zinc]

Shameless self plug have this in my addon since beta

[grand wyvern]

i use it for that, and thank you

[marble sail]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/overview-pve-dps

[brisk onyx]

ye I used msuf, it was very helpful

🫡

[light elbow]

thanks

[brisk onyx]

It would be even better if it could be icon (if you have time)

[tacit plover]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[steel zinc]

Yeah Ill do that this evening

Wanted to do myself

[spare quiver]

u craft dagger first week?=

[sharp peak]

do you want a 259 dagger?

if you do, craft it. if you don't, don't craft it.

[frail bone]

I'm assuming nothing changes as far as hero talents with the last min changes?

[sharp peak]

sims haven't been updated

[hazy breach]

And they wont be until they release the patch

[chilly talon]

!defensives

[hazy breach]

Because theres almost no way blizzard actually ends up remembering to buff all the things theyve mentioned in the post

[chilly talon]

Is there a defensive spreadsheet here somewhere?

[hazy breach]

Because every single spell has clones they need to manually update as well

[hazy breach]

#wow-general pins

[hollow spear]

That's so HD, hella fresh

[left ledge]

Not a fan of this balance patch ngl

[hazy breach]

If i had to guess theyll only nerf/buff the physical part of these spells

[left ledge]

Guess wait for the next one

[hazy breach]

Which in practice means its like 50% of the value they said

[hollow spear]

You think they know this or classic spaghetti?

[left ledge]

If they do that then this is a TRAGIC change

Surely they’re aware

Hahaha

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/airplane-first-time-nervous-80s-movies-gif-19769548

[hazy breach]

If they remember to update gloomblade clones i would be surprised

[left ledge]

[hazy breach]

Like the bluepost has 9 different lines. My overrides for sims are 16 lines, and thats excluding the melee one because its jank as fuck to override in simc

[astral axle]

wakes up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat "My gloomblade clones!!"

[vale pine]

if you want to craft now, yes

[left ledge]

I’m really gonna hold onto my last bit of hopium

[vale pine]

but you can always wait

[pallid jackal]

Anyone has an answer whether we should opt (with trickster) to go into dance/sectec with 5cp or none? What was the preferred?

[vale pine]

crafing now is low risk, but there could be item chanegs still

[grand wyvern]

It also assumes you gave up on outlaw

[left ledge]

Max

[fallow nimbus]

Why can't the clone shit just directly take stuff from the real hits and just add our other dmg mods to it? Why it have to be it's own thing at all?

[hazy breach]

[left ledge]

So that when they do tuning passes like this, they can forget some values and we can be worse off than we should be

[grand wyvern]

🍝

[still gazelle]

How come when I upgrade a rank of a potion with the same name, the macro doesn't consume it? How do I fix this?

[vale pine]

well it can be both

better and worse

for a nerfed spell, could be better if the clone damage is not updated

vs. worse for a buffed one

as eleem mentioned, and i tried to explain earlier

it rly comes down to the implementation of the change

[polar lion]

easiest solution is to use the item IDs in the macro instead of the item name.

[still gazelle]

It's for Light's Potential.

I had been using rank 1, but now rank 2 doesn't work. Even with trying the ID.

[left ledge]

I’m aware though in this case we are worse off

And our ST was already kinda ass

[vale pine]

for st ye

for aoe, no

[left ledge]

For AoE though the other talents being nerfed don’t need to worry about clones

Potent powder doesn’t care about clones no?

Neither does flurry

[vale pine]

its only bp

[left ledge]

Ye

So overall we still eat hefty shit there

[vale pine]

the nerf feels a bit too high

but well

we will see

[left ledge]

Yep just wait for next tuning

Though this is not a promising look

Maybe they magically buff all the ST clones and forget bp

[pallid jackal]

Thanks!

[crystal atlas]

Is anyones sims telling them double on use trinkets over the renown trinket and an on use?

[sharp peak]

your sims are telling you to use the renown trinket over m0 trinkets?

[hazy breach]

The renown trinket does not work on rogues in simc

[sharp peak]

^^

[radiant swift]

is it good tho or nah?

[spiral needle]

Would there be a reason that the Light Company Guidon trinket is listed as BIS for sub, but raidbots only shows it as a 1.1% upgrade over my piddly 240 trinkets?

That's way too low for 30+ ilvls supposedly BIS

[harsh gale]

if we dont hit that haste breakpoint, is it a good idea to send haste flasks for raid until optimized stats?

[rancid sierra]

Interesting...I just was fucking around with talents and took the 1 point out of finality and put it into gloomblade and it outsims the finality build by 21 damage

I assume it will be even better tuesday?

[warm marlin]

lots of things to come

[hazy breach]

21 damage is effectively equal btw

[rancid sierra]

i know, but just wasnt aware, just saying it 🙂

[hazy breach]

But its because you have worse stats and no tier set

Worse as in less

[rancid sierra]

mostly with the tuesday buffs maybe thinking it might be even better with the BS/SS buffs

just didnt know it was close

but no tier is true

didnt think about that

[plush roost]

Yeah its fairly good early

Esp full upped

[quaint remnant]

Hey can someone answer me a question about the craft dagger Farstriders Mercy?

[steady sail]

Is it a typo in the tooltip for gloomblade that it says "apply" find weakness or does it double dip? All the others say "grant" find weakness.

[idle aurora]

Thank god we got nerfed I was starting to not feel bad when grouping with my ice mage and warlock friends

[still gazelle]

I refuse to re-roll Rogue, so the question is.. What spec!?

[idle aurora]

Ret

the secret plate version of rogue

[modern sentinel]

Sub or outlul

[still gazelle]

It

[quaint remnant]

Hey!

[rancid sierra]

@quaint remnant

what

[vale pine]

sub

[still gazelle]

Is real dumb, but I get M+ anxiety. I use the group finder so I get anxious figuring out what I'll need to play to get taken to keys.

Thankfully I'm fine with both Sub/Sin.

[rancid sierra]

@quaint remnant

does that answer what you want to ask

[quaint remnant]

Im trying to understand why mine was crafted in 252 ilvl 🙁

[still gazelle]

Scammed.

[modern sentinel]

Shit mats

[quaint remnant]

but how?

[rancid sierra]

Because you did not set the quality requirement to 259

[hazy breach]

If you did not include max level mats in your crafting order

Then you cant guarantee max level

[quaint remnant]

where i can find this?

[modern sentinel]

Outlaw

[rich hornet]

is this a good sim or ? how should i do to make it work properly

[north schooner]

is overriding the effect which affects the autos from the spec aura not sufficient?

[raven mural]

Worgen ew

[quaint remnant]

i did buy ther best requirements reagents... i don't know what i did wrong actually

[rancid sierra]

@quaint remnant ill show you

[hazy breach]

Idk i asked somebody how to do it and they told me not to bother

[quaint remnant]

Thank you.

[vale pine]

on the bright side, without the clones, you only have one overwrite per spell ^^

[rancid sierra]

this drop down, you need to make minimum quality the 5/5. you made yours at 3/5. You need make level mats. If you look when you do this, every minimum quality you change, chnages the iLvl of the item.

[vale pine]

(but also less gain)

[quaint remnant]

Because when i send the request i didn't change anything it was like this.

[quaint remnant]

Im sorry where i can find this ?

[agile ingot]

only in guild/private orders

[rancid sierra]

Not sure if its an ELVui thing, but mine just has it when i click on crafting order table.

top right

[quaint remnant]

Ohh i see, it's only if im in a guild?

[rancid sierra]

No

[agile ingot]

or private, like find someone from trade chat

[lavish rose]

is there an on use to be farming

havent been able to get one to drop

[rancid sierra]

It has to be private or guild maker

yes

you cant do public orders that require a level

[quaint remnant]

I see, im kinda new to the game

this is an alt and i was testing this craft system

so, using public orders i can never get a 259 item right?

[rancid sierra]

you need to find someone to make it - and then you type their name and make minimum requirement level

you can recraft your dagger

[quaint remnant]

i see now

[rancid sierra]

yup

[quaint remnant]

but i don't have sparks

There's any easy way to find anyone that can craft?

[onyx flame]

Recraft needs no sparks

[onyx flame]

Server trade chat

[quaint remnant]

There's any guide on how to do this guys? ]

[modern sentinel]

Imagine if recraft req spark

[quaint remnant]

I don't want to bother you guys

[rancid sierra]

Just find someone that can make 259, give them best mats, and then you can click this

[tribal vortex]

When you talk to the guy, you press recraft order

[toxic swan]

What does our cooldown usage look like? Do we ever send SD if sectec is still on cooldown?
How many shadow dances are we expected to use while SB is on cooldown?

[rancid sierra]

you dont need sparks, you just remake it

to 5/5

[quaint remnant]

Can i send you a dm?

[radiant swift]

better than the listed m0 dungeon trinkets? i somehow got both

[rancid sierra]

Sure

[agile ingot]

might be a youtube video that explains it all if you look, but once you understand it, you'll realize it's actually not that complicated

just typical blizz sucks at explaining things

[plush roost]

Probably would play emberwing + renown trink

Thats what i plan on doing anyway

[faint quail]

if +700 haste can we start going mast?

[radiant swift]

fuck now i still have to go get it - or i just drop heroic trinkets easy

[shrewd lantern]

2min spec rp holy

[warm marlin]

i only got lightspire core but it seems decent

nice lil passive

[plush roost]

Is that the one with the beam?

Or the one thats like a mastery proc, that seemed pretty good

[shrewd lantern]

i have emberwing and the drum wq trinket at vet

[plush roost]

I only looted warbanner and emberwing

[shrewd lantern]

the stat proc for 12s you can adjust

[plush roost]

Whats the rppm?

Of drunmies

[shrewd lantern]

idk how do you check that

[plush roost]

12 sec kinda lowuptime

Prob smack a dummy for 10 minutes lmfao

[shrewd lantern]

its like 308 stat proc

[plush roost]

Seems like an insane outlaw trinket but idk if it procs out of dance ur smodge

[shrewd lantern]

[plush roost]

Idk the math

[shrewd lantern]

yeah idk

it doesnt proc as much as renown

[plush roost]

Vet trink minmaxing !!!

[shrewd lantern]

but i see the buff fairly often

all my other prey drops were bin

[wind ember]

What is the X on the first pip? had it on the one before that also? (New rogue)

[plush roost]

I got 3 cloaks and a weapon from prey

XD

[candid prawn]

I've been reading up on the crafting/gearing discussion, but I find it super confusing. As a returning player from BFA last, what's the biggest change to pve gearing? Is pvp still just conquest-centered?

I'd appreciate the direction

[candid prawn]

Or a place where I could read up more*

[plush roost]

Supercharger

[marble sail]

supercharged combo points, it basically counts as +1 cp

[plush roost]

Ah that trinket is so gimmick man

Stand in de liiight

[wind ember]

Thank you guys, found the talent ❤️

[outer fjord]

Hey guys, do we still storm on 0 cp when coup is ready?

[sand flax]

IDK if anyone else has ran the numbers but based on our AOE damage breakdown now, with the nerfs to AOE coming up it looks like will lose about 9.5% of our overall dmg in AOE for M+. Anyone else finding a similar result?

[shrewd lantern]

im stuck playing the claw wq trinket to have enough haste

regardless

[marble sail]

check pins lol

[shrewd lantern]

or i can play emberwing at 250 and pretend sub is a 2min spec

[sand flax]

oh LOL

[sand flax]

I did all that for nothing

[plush roost]

Im ngl its probably better to just use emberwing every other sblades and play normally

[marble sail]

yes

u really did

but atleast u did it correctly it seems

[shrewd lantern]

yeah i just fail to meet haste threshold

otherwise

[plush roost]

Embrace DS and play 587 haste since no coup gcd 8)

[shrewd lantern]

ds

[plush roost]

Hehe

[austere canopy]

sad m+ noises

[frigid prawn]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1476887002019270761/Midnight_s1_fixed.png

[radiant mist]

what do we think boys, is Sin the go-to now for raid/m+ now or what? I figure Sub is probably better for raid but that aoe nerf looks a bit hefty

[jade urchin]

why does it say 500 damage from shuriken storm on ST sim with 0 casts

what am i misisng

[hazy breach]

Its rounding it down, its probably like 0.2 casts or something

Its irrelevant, its just used as a fallback in the sim to make it not break sometimes, dw about it

[jade urchin]

makes sense

tyvm

[sweet moss]

buff rogue?

[pallid jackal]

How do you guys sim for consumables / food?

Do you just take stat priority in raidbots?

[warm marlin]

it doesnt have new stuff yet after buffs btw

sub probably in top half

[sweet moss]

no

thtas after buffs

[hazy breach]

Yesnt

[raw wadi]

That without recent changes

[hazy breach]

The trickster one seems to be with some of the sub buffs, but again its impossible to know how much theyll buff sub by

[sweet moss]

no with new changes

[plush roost]

Mfw sub was 6% buffed from 96k to 96k !!!!

[sweet moss]

its 101k

mb

[hazy breach]

My guess is that its just using +8% on eviscerate

Not the clones or shadowed finishers

[sweet moss]

idk why all those updated except rogue

[warm marlin]

im sure some other specs have apl work to do as well

so its not entirely clear

[hazy breach]

But also, like i just said

Its literally impossible to know how much theyll buff us by

[plush roost]

Yeah surely feral is 120k 😉

[raw wadi]

Evoker is also prechanges

For example

[sweet moss]

yeah....

[hazy breach]

Because theres almost no chance they remember to add all the buffs to all the clone attacks

[inner prairie]

Is this new based on coming tuning?

[sweet moss]

half are new half are old

[hazy breach]

As they have to do that manually

[sweet moss]

ignore it

[plush roost]

What if its all implemented, sec tec apex works, potent powder works on apex, unshakable isnt eaten by clones!??!

Premed bug fixed too

[raw wadi]

That's why you don't post screenshots like this. People can't click on the links to verify it themselves.
Which is kinda ragebait at this point @sweet moss

[sweet moss]

hahah

yeah mb

ima del

honestly thought they were all updated

but half was

[placid coral]

Are we dead boys? Also are we taking gloomblade on Tuesday for st?

[raw wadi]

Last time we did was season 2 dragonflight. Was it?

[chrome palm]

hey, they nerfed nimble before bugfixing coup clone

[paper trail]

do u go haste mastery or crit mastery for wep

[hazy breach]

It doesnt really matter.

[chrome palm]

apex secret would be a huge deal for aoe so a heavy handed nerf beforehand would make sense if it was getting fixed, not that i think it will be

[paper trail]

I assume haste for now

[hazy breach]

If you have your haste capped, dont go haste

[paper trail]

and mby swap later

[hazy breach]

If youdont, then you can go haste

[paper trail]

It's 18% ye?

[hazy breach]

~650-700

[plush roost]

Join me on the copium

Yesss

[chrome palm]

omega

[hazy breach]

Sorry to burst your bubble but i dont think they wouldve buffed our ST if they fixed that

[plush roost]

Ah but you see

[chrome palm]

theyre gonna let us have good st for once

[plush roost]

Thats why they only buffed it 6%!

Instead of 15%!

Surely...

[hazy breach]

[alpine wraith]

ehehe

[chrome palm]

guys sub is gonna be below assa in heroic surely

then omega buff

[alpine wraith]

time to bet how many things are buffed too

[chrome palm]

for myth week

[plush roost]

Messer i swear assa is undersimming

Like not a little bit

[chrome palm]

it must be if they didnt buff it lol

[plush roost]

A lotta bit

I was hitting a dummy for hrs today and consistenly was 4-5k above sim

[hazy breach]

Presumably not an execute dummy

[plush roost]

Yes

I didnt even hit execute

So its even more than one would think

[vestal escarp]

Sin undersimmed sine end of Sl maybe

It's the shit we've always been saying

[plush roost]

I sim 27.5k on target dummy

[vestal escarp]

I cant say it's factually true or fals but i also belive that

[chrome palm]

i mean, sin SHOULD be a top tier ST dps, since the raid imo seems to heavily not favor it

[plush roost]

The sin sim seems to drop implacable too much and loses envenom casts me thinks

Like force drop it

Im still trying to figure it out

[hazy breach]

Do you have a raidbots sim of that i can compare it to

[lilac stag]

Assa Sims 🤝 Sub

[plush roost]

Whispyr is sleeping but i sent him a wall of text im sure hes gonna lose his mind over ill dm u to not flood sub channel

[hazy breach]

Ye dm is fine

[lilac stag]

Awe flood us

[raw wadi]

#assassination message

Try to ping him

[upbeat pollen]

Wheres best to look at like sims for classes/specs? Not me specificiall

[brisk raptor]

Does the crucible trinket from renown work outside voidstorm even without the last node talented?

[fallow ingot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

the effects work only as they said in the trink

getting the points make it last longer proc more often and be stronger

[warm marlin]

yes, all the buffs work in instances

[pallid jackal]

I am under haste cap but mastery flasks simmed best for me

[hard trellis]

[covert pine]

🧢

[alpine wraith]

because overcapping haste is not that good

if you do a topgear with different items other flasks may sim more

[pallid jackal]

Yeah I just select flasks there and do it that way, that's the way right?

[stone vessel]

what's the haste cap?

[alpine wraith]

what i meant is you would also need to change some gear

[pallid jackal]

Why>

[alpine wraith]

there is no cap but around 650-700 it begins losing value

[faint quail]

is outlaw so high up just bc broken sim?

the "simming high"

[willow knoll]

700 is where I stopped

[alpine wraith]

outlaw does fine dmg

[pallid jackal]

I am at 16% now without buffs or enchants

[willow knoll]

the percentiles are not super helpful

Look for the flat amount

[alpine wraith]

yea so haste flask is losing quite bit of value

[pallid jackal]

so that would be about 18%

[alpine wraith]

you can just do the math kinda i would always use the mastery or crit one anyway

[warm marlin]

it's a 100% uptime required flat profile spec so it always sims high and has to be tuned high to exist in a game where you sometimes lose uptime

[alpine wraith]

it is better to think haste in numbers instead of %

because different races have different buffs that may affect it

[pallid jackal]

I am at 536 points now without enchants or stuff

[alpine wraith]

but those dont work on dance inc

yea so it is better for you to just gear more haste and use mastery flask

[willow knoll]

What's an alt that a rogue player might like

like alt class

[pallid jackal]

I think haste will only be at the beginning anyways since we're gearing up

[willow knoll]

demon hunter

?

lmao

[alpine wraith]

i liked arcane mage arms warr and feral

[pallid jackal]

Hunter, evoker

[pallid jackal]

yeah

I will try a bit with different items as well to see

[stone vessel]

I'm at 463 x.x--- just being equipped wtv it drops, 241 ilvl

[willow knoll]

Only reason evoker annoys me is because I have to play drac.

[balmy gate]

yo we are still fine after this patch ?

[astral axle]

prot warrior has always played like outlaw rogue to me

[wet anvil]

ofc

[balmy gate]

@wet anvil very nice thank u sir

[umbral bone]

fuck my life i still need another peice >.>

[plush roost]

ench gems?

[umbral bone]

wait i can upgrade my gear

[plush roost]

there ya go

[willow knoll]

yeah we're fine

I just realized I've been doing M0 without improved black powder on

because I had raid tree on

like the entire time

and I've still been pumping which makes me think that the AOE loss is kind of whatever

Like we'll probably still do strong AOE

[wet anvil]

nah just people are crazy "should i reroll" like they are going to push r1 keys

[willow knoll]

And now we have some ST

WoW just has a bad culture around meta

People care about meta solely because other people care about meta.

[umbral bone]

okay this is it, im good now right? i dont technically need 700?

[willow knoll]

like a feedback loop

I was at 680 something and it felt fine

I think anywhere between 650-700 is good from what I've been hearing

[pallid jackal]

Can you show your armory with your gear?

[umbral bone]

w/e its over now i did this

[pallid jackal]

alright

[umbral bone]

okay great i got the haste

now what does it mean

oh yeah more globals in dance

[pallid jackal]

longer dance

[stone vessel]

I've been consistently top dps overall on M0, especially when SD is up

[quick marlin]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[stone vessel]

should I socket haste?

[vale pine]

anything not vers is fine in a socket

[raw wadi]

If not at 684 sure

[astral mountain]

So is our aoe gonna be suffering much with these class updates coming?

[young harness]

Yes we are terrible reroll

[stone vessel]

we cooked

[tardy spear]

Fuck it I’m playing ret

Cya guys

Pce

[tulip light]

pce

[stone vessel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3KN9PuLTynnt59cQKG4WWi is this a low sim?

[harsh gale]

decent, im getting to 48k right now

[pallid jackal]

I am at 45.644 right now

[calm cloud]

im at 11/50 in queue

[astral mountain]

Oh well I’ll ride sub up for the first season. Was having a great time

[calm cloud]

i think he took my m+ talents though

[calm cloud]

yeah used the black powder over veiltouched talents

[harsh gale]

which raids come out tuesday

[plush roost]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/42QcXa4BF7Av5BNYUxYi1U

😉

[willow knoll]

at here right now

Didn't get any good M0 drops this week

:/

oh there we go

Had bad pants on

[harsh gale]

there it is baby

[warm marlin]

just send all vet crests and spark to flex your m0 week sim number like me bub

[willow knoll]

shit pants

[calm cloud]

if i had enchants

[willow knoll]

thicc

[calm cloud]

me broke

[willow knoll]

When do we stop caring about vet crests

Like do I really need to hoard them

[calm cloud]

champ 2

[fallow nimbus]

Next week

[willow knoll]

I wanna upgrade my pants

lmao

[sudden quarry]

just important for split weeks

[harsh gale]

im ready to sweat out in m+ already as outlaw since its better

[willow knoll]

ah ok

[harsh gale]

how annoying is the draught potion to use? its almost a 500dps increase using that

[warm marlin]

its really bad

[harsh gale]

are the pools big

[fallow nimbus]

Mate used it once and had like 5 procs back to back in a small boss room

He died

[alpine wraith]

yea you dont mess with that pot

[willow knoll]

what's draught

like does it hurt you

also if you stand in it or something

[astral axle]

pacifies you if you're in it

[plush roost]

idek if im crafting next week

one more week of tuning before i make that choice tbh

OUTLAW !!!

[astral axle]

what's the secret to pass the marshmellow test bro

[grand wyvern]

speaking of pot, is there a reason to ever suggest this pot?

[astral axle]

I am given resource and I send it without even thinking

[hazy breach]

If you try using it once youll see why its not

[plush roost]

@warm marlin post the ss

LOL

[astral axle]

I can't delay gratification at all

[grand wyvern]

it's the maxroll guide

[bleak night]

maxroll pog

[plush roost]

I simply dont wanna craft a dagger on heroic week if outlaw gets turbo'd the next reset

[astral axle]

maximum limit roll?

[patent wadi]

read if

[plush roost]

if i cant kill heroic bosses without a craft idk i guess im bad

[plush roost]

https://tenor.com/view/rafael-gif-7629049409652179882

[teal plaza]

Just offhand it

[plush roost]

Tru then i can use a heroic mainhand

[bleak night]

bro thinks theres any chance outlaw is meta

[plush roost]

idk man subs 2-3 target is like REALLY bad

[grand wyvern]

you have 4 sparks on heroic week, if outlaw comes up on top you can still pivot

[bleak night]

we both know its an assa tier

[plush roost]

TRUE

[astral axle]

Sleeper sin

[chrome palm]

nah man you NEED to waste heroic crests on a crafted dagger

for week 1 clear

[plush roost]

yall dont even wanna know what was found in sims today

Whispyr is gonna BLOW UP

[alpine wraith]

ahaha

[astral axle]

rosebud;!;!;! or?

[keen dome]

I believe

[spice escarp]

we take damage from our own poisons? leaning into the class fantasy

[keen dome]

WIll outlaw tier into being

[plush roost]

Well it does have to do with poisons!

[astral axle]

[naive hemlock]

wat

[astral axle]

https://tenor.com/view/fear-and-loathing-in-las-vegas-johnny-depp-finish-the-fucking-story-gif-14877640

[plush roost]

OKAY ENOUGH RAGEBAIT

[spice matrix]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9i1wJBXHZ7nAA6wG2aZyWn

let’s pump these numbers up boys

[plush roost]

Venomous vim is restoring 1 energy instead of 3 and deathmark isnt duplicating poisons

IN SIMS ONLY

[astral axle]

sinful!

[bleak night]

simful

[spice escarp]

this is what we call "do a tettles", aka sandbag

[grand wyvern]

agent shindig failed

[astral axle]

"Delightfully devilish, Simmour"

[smoky dust]

hi guys weird question, i played sub for raid and m+ in dragonlfight s2 (last time i played), decided to pick it up again.. is it me, or it feels extremely oversimplied and pretty weird to play?

[stone vessel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9XQkM5Zd2DoPb2bgVztmTx got it better

[alpine wraith]

yea sub is more simple

[warm marlin]

that's actually the one that's fine

thats the secondaries one

draught of reckless abandon is certainly not the move though

[alpine wraith]

if only you knew they dropped like every 2 secs

you could counter play

but no they decided lets make it rng

[teal plaza]

What was it

[astral axle]

#subtlety message

[smoky dust]

we ALWAYS want to drop secret tech with 2 supercharged points right?

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter if its 2 or 1

[dreamy furnace]

i might have missed this but anyone got any proposed talent changes for m+ after the tuning notes release?

[hazy breach]

One finisher only take up one supercharger anyway

[noble stirrup]

Question about 2nd crafted item. The wowhead guide says craft belt due to it being a lower stat budget item, but bracers have a lower stat budget. Is there another reason we craft belt over bracers?

[smoky dust]

someone have a "poison reminder" addon?

[spice escarp]

I use buff reminders

[dreamy furnace]

I always just use it first finisher into SD, gets debuff on everyone

[smoky dust]

o shi thanks thsta good one yeah

[distant sage]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4KJa5j9uUadb39aNAMeuGz

one min wth was i simming beforethis

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2YhVch7MxNU644TcPG8p1v

[stone vessel]

was parsing wrong talents lol

[steady sail]

Is there a way to get the other Amani neck/swap your current one over?

[arctic abyss]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5o16M9px178HGPdSKbMbSG

[willow knoll]

dk wtf is going on there

[manic ice]

Any word of if tuning effects hero talent choices

[plush roost]

they'll letcha know on tuesday to see whats actually been implemented

sneaky suspicion these buffs arent gonna effect clones or shadowed finishers LOL

[astral axle]

charrend will you be back to streaming some m+ on twitch dot tv at proper season start?

[plush roost]

ye ill strem raid too

its just leveling content and farming stuff is so mind numbing

be a boring stream

[astral axle]

what did you prep? dh and rogue?

[plush roost]

2 rogues and havoc ye

[astral axle]

havoc rising from those buffs? not that they'll play anything other than dev xdd

[plush roost]

dont be so sure man

Havoc is looking REALLY good

[astral axle]

i think like 90% of dev players will not play it very well at all

[plush roost]

i can see them playing havoc on dragon boss and nexus king for example, since AR is strong and quarry is even stronger now

[astral axle]

this is a very scentifically rigorous prediction

[barren tulip]

Hey, playing rogue again for the first time in 10 years. Giving sub a go. Can someone tell me:

• What do blue combo points mean?
• Why do we want to use shadow dance before secret technique? All i can see is stealth gives me shadowstrike over backstab.
• Is crimson vial the only heal we have?

Thanks!

[steady plover]

subtely still best rogue m+ spec?

[plush roost]

probably play like dev on paladins tho, sustained aoe is their thing

[astral axle]

• blue combo points means supercharged to act as if more combo points were spent
• shadow dance give a damage buff (and supercharged combo points!) so pressing before buffs sectech
• kinda

[plush roost]

yeah very within range

[barren tulip]

Oh ok, thanks.

So how else can i get supercharged combo points?

[barren tulip]

What is this from?

[plush roost]

just scraped sims from simc

its not entirely accurate tc's are iterating all day

[astral axle]

more info in the class tree

[barren tulip]

ah thanks!

[barren tulip]

How do I view it?

[plush roost]

idk its not supposed be publicly shared hehe, search Ulria spreadsheet maybe

[little epoch]

VERY SIMILAR to as it used to be in Shadowlands so yeah back to the OG sub roots

[barren tulip]

ok thanks

[pallid jackal]

How did you get it higher?

[barren tulip]

Ah yeah I got the s3 tww one as a link. He made the midnight one a sub only thing (no pun intended)

[supple flower]

I use the following macro for the 2nd Shadow Dance during Shadow Blades.

#showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cast [nostealth] Shadow Dance
/cast [mod:shift] Eviscerate
/cast [nomod,stance:2] Shadowstrike

If I have combo points I use a shift modifier to cast Eviscerate.
If I don't have combo points I don't use a modifier and spam the button until it casts Shadowstrike.

I just found out about the Deathstalker Shadow Dance + Shuriken Storm macro so I'm wondering if I should replace the Shadowstrike in my macro with Shuriken Storm even for Trickster?

[plush roost]

Strike has a delay in macros with dance

[astral axle]

he always does this

it'll be free again once the season starts proper

[barren tulip]

oh sweet

[pallid jackal]

I'm at 45.6K right now but no enchants, need better weapons and trinkets as well

How did you get your 240 slicer @plush roost?

[plush roost]

m0

[pallid jackal]

I see ty

[fair phoenix]

Lol

So we not macro shadow strike and Backsteb?

[hazy breach]

Not really a macro issue, you just cant use strike immediately after dancing. Theres like a 0.1-0.2s delay before you can use it

[azure thicket]

any plater users/enjoyers know what setting causes these dummy thick friendly player hp bars and how to adjust it without turning off blizz ui?

[hazy breach]

You can if you want to as we generally dont want to Dance>strike anyway

Trickster uses Dance+Sectech and because of the strike delay deathstalker prefers to Dance+Storm

[still gazelle]

Do we even want to use shadow dance if sec tec isn't up?

Still learning the nuances. I know this may be obvious. Is there even a situation where they wouldn't line up?

[hazy breach]

No

[fair phoenix]

I think i miss undestand

I mean to use a macro for strike inside with dance

[willow knoll]

I don't get whats pushing this to 77 even with enchants etc.

Something seems off about it lol

[fair phoenix]

Not dance + strike

[hazy breach]

Yeah you can do that

[fair phoenix]

👍 💌

[vast zinc]

1min sim

is bait

[fair stump]

With BP nerf, are we still BP and SS on 2+ targets?

[still gazelle]

So when I see a blue CP, it doesn't matter where it is, it just juices a finisher? Nothing to consider or play around really?

[willow knoll]

oh the 1 minute

[plush roost]

1 min sim HEHE

[willow knoll]

yeah just saw that at the last minute lol

[fair stump]

Exactly, no more minigames

[bleak night]

optimizing for delve bosses

ez 1m sim

[still gazelle]

I haven't played Sub since DF. This feels deceptively simple now.

[fair stump]

It is not deceptively, it is really simple now

[still gazelle]

Even Dance macabre is uhh

Auto

[fair stump]

There are bits of optimization but nothing that would break your dmg significantly, like when we had to juggle cds reductions with vanish

[still gazelle]

Can I literally just play with one macro for Dance /Sectec and one for Dance/Sectec/Pots/Trinkets and that's it?

Wow

[still gazelle]

Explain the vanish tech.