I think that was valourstones
#subtlety
hexed sluice
swift tinsel
I’m almost positive coins are too now
swift tinsel
Ah nvm they do reset
young mural
but not sure
hexed sluice
I hope so though, I've got like 40k
young mural
Ah nvm they do reset
both will reset? or only undercoins?
swift tinsel
Unless icy veins is lying
young mural
I hope so though, I've got like 40k
buy the pet, he's cool
swift tinsel
Valorstones don’t
young mural
Ah gotcha
swift tinsel
Those stay
hexed sluice
I have the pet
young mural
thats really weird, undercoins being reset and valorstones arent
hexed sluice
I've got nothing to spend on, I carry too many friends on rats through 11s when boree
Bored
young mural
I've got nothing to spend on, I carry too many friends on rats through 11s when ...
oh its rip then
hexed sluice
Least that infinite delver title should be done this next season
young mural
idk spend them on reagent pouches, although the mats are really cheap rn
hexed sluice
I think I'll just pray they convert them to gold
I don't wanna get outta bed to spend em
short radish
i just want to let you know that i hate this
lilac stag
Good news is it’s not worth shit
young mural
I don't wanna get outta bed to spend em
lol fair enough
dudes, what build are we playing on M+ w/o shuriken tornado
swift tinsel
Moroes afk
lilac stag
dangit, whats the command to get the WA's to pop up
Just search the channel. bot got shived.
short radish
Just search the channel. bot got shived.
no, that is not part of the rotation.
tribal blade
hey when exactly is title cutoff closing
it reads like it's on the reset, but people are saying it's with the pvp close
young mural
I think it closes tomorrow on lockout
tribal blade
ok yeah looks like it
young mural
Oh I think you're good also
Nice work
Talents people, what are we running on M+? Is it always thistle with no shadowcraft + shuriken tornado?
And why are we taking planned execution 😭
tribal blade
And why are we taking planned execution 😭
crit during symbols and dance good 😉
young mural
crit during symbols and dance good 😉
I thought sending those 2 points into finality would be good'er
But now I remembered why, finality doesnt interact with coup de grace correctly, and we're getting much more damage out of coup with new tierset
So the talent loses value
next stump
Do yall take rush setup and open with cheap shot on m+?
Cheap shot all the mobs into 7 point kidney on KT
Echoing reprimand, shadowblades, dance coldblood secret tech?
gilded lodge
That sounds awful
short radish
bro what the fuck, it's m+ not a RBG
next stump
bro what the fuck, it's m+ not a RBG
I thought it was hilarious, I was looking at the talent heatmap for sub in m+ on archon. 29% of people chose rushed setup
short radish
I thought it was hilarious, I was looking at the talent heatmap for sub in m+ on...
well yeah because the other talent points are even more worthless
2% leech on one ability when you stealth is nothing
reduced duration of movement i cant think of a single usecase
and maybe wound poison is useful in very niche scenario
bleak night
Shadowheart my beloved
short radish
but you at least press kidney shot sometimes
next stump
Idk if my rogue is like overweight or obese or some shit as outlaw i press kidney and im gassed 0 energy left XD
daring raptor
is the spec really assa for raid this tier of what we can see?
anyone know how sub is performing?
have been away for some time and trying to catch up to be ready for the next weeks
paper siren
Why is the 11.2 Sub M+ talent tree have tea?
short radish
anyone know how sub is performing?
people are saying sub is looking good but i'll wait for tier to comeout before believing
short radish
Why is the 11.2 Sub M+ talent tree have tea?
because it do be like that
tea affects all of dance or something
coldblood only affects sectech in flag
daring raptor
so we are not playing coldblood anymore?
frank path
Yes you are playing cold blood in raid
short radish
more energy pog
paper siren
^^
frank path
I mean you play cold blood
short radish
big sectech crits pog
haughty mural
I figured 
haughty mural
So the build in fuus sheet still uses shadowcraft
ember hound
!fuu
haughty mural
Good
tribal blade
i don't even know anymore
shadow snow
hekili or HeroRotation?
dreamy badger
Read guide
round latch
hekili or HeroRotation?
none of the above
haughty mural
sorry, the server i host it on has maintainance currently -.-
All good (: thanks for the effort
clever delta
Always hekili
vale pine
!fuu
ye, sorry bot is sleeping before patch
hope the maintainance is over soon
they did send me a very detailed email about it
(thats all, the entire email)
pastel rampart
who up maintaining they salt lake city service fr
vale pine
haha
they are mining salt
to give it out for all the classes/specs who are bad in the patch release today
proven plover
(thats all, the entire email)
lol based dev probably wrote it himself
sick sand
!fuu
vale pine
!fuu
under maintainance currently, but moment
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
cloud rover
**Rogue Spreadsheet - [Light Version](<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/...
Good bot
vale pine
hmm
hollow spear
I thought Whispyr wanted to have Fatebound sims released by now?
vale pine
this is fun
hollow spear
Or am I tripping?
hollow spear
I know that pin
But then I saw him saying Monday evening a couple of messages into some discussion
So 
vale pine
Whispyr asked me to wait for the apl updates before releasing simulations(why i removed the raidbots report link), think the update is not in simc yet
vale pine
this is fun
think moroes is up again, i tried to start it even tho there was a big "under maintainance" overlay^^
vale pine
Whispyr asked me to wait for the apl updates before releasing simulations(why i ...
but there is still time to do so before the patch
hollow spear
Last time I checked, the robot still calculated with kb being buggy. So even with apl changes, the result might be off. Not sure if you can override that in your apl.
The 5.2 ish sim you had in your sheet before removing it had the 14s ramp rather than 18s
bleak night
well it sims with the bug because they never actually fixed the bug
we'll see if its finally actually fixed when servers come up
hollow spear
Maybe it'll be fixed the same way the fazed + nimble interaction has been fixed on sub rogue
vale pine
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
absolutely, we will see if there are some hotfixes/last minute changes once the patch is out
hollow spear
Huh, now your sub sim includes pre disorienting strikes again
Was that intentional?
vale pine
it does not
but i fixed something simc changed, which is why all sims are slightly higher
hollow spear
What did they change?
vale pine
hollow spear
Because the sim result is almost exactly the same as with predisorienting
vale pine
it is why i re-posted the gear list in #tc-research
hollow spear
Ah, so basically all sims have gone up by that
vale pine
yes
hollow spear
Nothing only sub gained
clever delta
So when we get tier set sim? Tommorow hopefully?
hollow spear
We gain the least! Riot!!
glacial kraken
should be gaining 2nd least smh
vale pine
haha, its more on me not seeing the simc change to the effect parsing
but it does not change things ^^
clever delta
Fuu?
hollow spear
No tier sims for you Sap
vale pine
i can add tier set/etc once patch is out
vale pine
it makes no sense to sim early when there migth be hotfixes/etc
but sub tier is:
2p - 10%
4p - 20%
rougly
clever delta
Yeah make sense
grave delta
Can I access the undermine sheet?
clever delta
That's a lot
vale pine
hollow spear
They better give me the diamond level access to 4p then
vale pine
season 2 numbers
sleek kindle
With the newest subtley build, do you rupture still or since you dont have replicating shadows, is it not worth doing?
hollow spear
Calling my RL as we speak
sleek kindle
(m+)
vale pine
i have that one hidden, also sims are expired as raidbots only keeps them 28 days (which i always keep updated to not expire when the version is active)
sleek kindle
With the newest subtley build, do you rupture still or since you dont have repli...
this is a question from shindig, he wasnt sure and said y'all would know 🙂
vale pine
With the newest subtley build, do you rupture still or since you dont have repli...
you play it very much like before
there is little to no rotational change
clever delta
Wowhead is updated with guides
vale pine
mostly to use bp earler due to the buff to it (4+ targets)
and there is one optimization to use storm when the new 4 piece buff is up instead of other builders to not proc unseen blades (only during shadow blades)
think all guides should be up to date at latest with content release today
hollow spear
If it was shindigs question why would you be asking it?
sleek kindle
❤️ ty
sleek vine
If it was shindigs question why would you be asking it?
he is busy keying 😄
sleek kindle
^^^
hollow spear
Slacker
short radish
to give it out for all the classes/specs who are bad in the patch release today
tbh sub is not that much better
we only have 2 lines in there that acutally matter since the DS one doesnt count
keen dome
Must be because all their effort is going into the third DH spec. Obvs.
leaden prairie
runic trail
if i speak
Just type instead its fine
vale pine
lol
mage/hunter is normal
so these are as expected
the rest, not sure
rogue is also only so big because of some buffs
due to performing quite poorly during raid testing
we had no real class or talent changes
leaden prairie
Rogue is litteraly just 10 lines of aura buffs 
leaden prairie
we had no real class or talent changes
They finally reworked ks after 10 years
vale pine
true
leaden prairie
And it's still the worse ability in the game
vale pine
i forgot
leaden prairie
Waiting for the next ks rework rn
void ocean
Rogue is litteraly just 10 lines of aura buffs <:ICANT:1078458428709666836>
we aura farmin
alpine wraith
the KS one is so sily
short radish
And it's still the worse ability in the game
could be worse. they could have made it empowered
clever delta
Waiting for the next ks rework rn
That's shadow priest way
Waiting for new rework after rework
cloud rover
Real
drifting fable
but sub tier is:
2p - 10%
4p - 20%
so sub tierset is 30%? or 20% total
vale pine
30%
umbral topaz
What was the current tier set? Just to compare 🤔
steel zinc
under maintainance currently, but moment
Maybe just pin it in the mean time?
vale pine
Maybe just pin it in the mean time?
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
^ the bot is already back
steel zinc
^ the bot is already back
Ok nice!
keen dome
He lives! Praise Moroes
short radish
He lives! Praise Moroes
moroes is undead
keen dome
He unlives!
steel zinc
Why does the bot sectech sometimes before blades
short radish
steel zinc
Hunter getting every time a line it was nerfs
haughty mural
That whole sequence looks scuffed
steel zinc
thats not gonna be rotation, innit
Dm stacks that's standard
void ocean
but why between sec tech and blades
steel zinc
Because ur full cp into dance
vale pine
Why does the bot sectech sometimes before blades
premediation
haughty mural
Flag > SoD > Dance > Sectech
void ocean
it was usually backstab into sec tech into blades
steel zinc
premediation
Ahhh true
runic trail
I'd say that changes for the sake of changes isn't a good thing, but also, a chunk of the changes were aura buffs and not things like fixing sub deathstalker, so, eh
keen dome
If you included all the bug fixes, I imagine it'd be considerably longer too
steel zinc
Killing spree is the most flashy animation rogue still has apart from all pvp talents that look way cooler
runic trail
damn someone made a list of all the people who bought title
Is Lashga on it?
steel zinc
If you included all the bug fixes, I imagine it'd be considerably longer too
They fixed like 4 bugs
vale pine
I'd say that changes for the sake of changes isn't a good thing, but also, a chu...
Change for the sake of change is what introduced a lot of bugs ^^
steel zinc
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
tribal blade
i know quite a few names on there
tribal blade
Is Lashga on it?
i think it might just be NA
bleak night
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xJGKq1kTmKgm_n62ahhY57ZE_uQTmjtqRkGtMTJN...
this goes so insanely hard
runic trail
i think it might just be NA
Damn
keen dome
They fixed like 4 bugs
That'd make it considerly longer! technically
tribal blade
yeah this is only NA i think
but since it's out there now the disc i personally know who got mega boosted is on there, his name is snugglepooh
runic trail
Change for the sake of change is what introduced a lot of bugs ^^
Yeah, I'd rather a small number of meaningful changes than a big list of filler/jank
leaden prairie
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xJGKq1kTmKgm_n62ahhY57ZE_uQTmjtqRkGtMTJN...
weird
must be not updated
tribal blade
must be not updated
looks like only NA servers
vale pine
Yeah, I'd rather a small number of meaningful changes than a big list of filler/...
i give you one example
vale pine
evis had a rank 2 passive which increased its damage
it was a very simple modifier
so basically, you leveled up, your evis did more damage
in order to make it more thematic/interessting
this rank 2 passive was removed and added back again in the form of find weakness
leaden prairie
looks like only NA servers
runic trail
vale pine
so now, instead of simply doing more damage, you had to have find weakness on the target to do the same damage as before with evis but the damge was spread in 2 attacks.
(means, you also now deal less damage without the debuff up)
tribal blade
https://hocus-p0cus.github.io/
wait what is this
bleak night
vale pine
so now, instead of simply doing more damage, you had to have find weakness on th...
^ this was a change made in BfA, but we had many similar chanegs after
tribal blade
it tells you if they timed with resil
ohhhh
keen dome
That doesn't sound like the best metric to check with, haha
leaden prairie
i mena
bleak night
if they timed everything with resilient keys
leaden prairie
i think resil key score is fake
bleak night
you can kind of extrapolate
leaden prairie
but ye
keen dome
Yeah, absolutely, if they timed everything or had huge jumps
keen dome
Yeah, that's obvious
tribal blade
that kind of thing is so bad
keen dome
But didn't you also help people do 18 -> 19 via resilient keys?
tribal blade
oh yeah helping people with resil keys has been a big part of this season
but never jumps that big
keen dome
Yeah
tribal blade
it's only ever 1 key level up
keen dome
Which is why resilient on it's own isn't a good metric imo
vale pine
keen dome
You'll just run into Brutal Number issues and that's always bad. Gotta look at the minutiae of it all.
short radish
apparently half the OCE ones are false positives per my mate
tribal blade
no he's one of the sellers
hahaaa
i'm super borderline on getting NA title
good chance i don't get it
i COULD keep grinding
but i don't give a shit anymore
i just want to be done
leaden prairie
well its over now ?
keen dome
Isn't it over, yeah?
leaden prairie
its like 1 day left
keen dome
Well 0 on NA I imagine
keen dome
hell yeah, huge
chrome palm
these australians need to LOG OFF
tribal blade
TRUE
chrome palm
go take a nap australians season is over
tribal blade
<@146180393941336064> start queuing to groups
HAHA
short radish
how was that
not too bad
chrome palm
pull that ladder up
tribal blade
a few people i know just got into a resil 20 top
short radish
you can also say farkin
tribal blade
with a 3900 fdk
tribal blade
you can also say farkin
ah farkin hell m8
short radish
you put more emphisis on the "far" when you say it
tribal blade
narrrhhwwww
short radish
crystal blaze
oops
keen dome
My favourite Aussie thing was the Aussie raid calls in Destiny 2. Absolutely ton of fun.
tribal blade
i did a triple rogue key the other day with aussie brew and outlaw
keen dome
Hell yeah triple rogue
tribal blade
naturally all the americans started laughing
chrome palm
thinking of levelling an outlaw for splits next xpac
tribal blade
yeah moroes just yelled at me, sorry moroes
tribal blade
mb mb
sick oak
am I missing something with shuriken storm or is it just kinda awkward to use?
runic trail
Oh shit, a mod, leg it lads
final wasp
short radish
Circumventing the filter is just as bad yaknow
what if i post the australian tourism advert though
runic trail
I made a second rogue in case splits happen
tribal blade
thinking of levelling an outlaw for splits next xpac
omfg you got the actual johnoutlaw
that's amazing
vale pine
you have one week to gear it, have fun
keen dome
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1338807060837433365/1402041086150574101/i...
lmao
tribal blade
mods give him testicular torsion
i'm sorrrryyyyyy
keen dome
A friend of mine took the name Gestmain on my realm. Which I found very funny
runic trail
you have one week to gear it, have fun
If my rfwl guild makes me do splits I'm turning to drink
final wasp
I made a second rogue in case splits happen
Big Hnunter Corp is holding a gun to my head for splits
keen dome
If my rfwl guild makes me do splits I'm turning to drink
you should reply by just doing the splits in real life and going "job done"
runic trail
We're wr 1300, we don't need to do splits, please
I made it because the name was perfect
short radish
our RL doesnt trust us to do splits because we're too shit at alts or something
tribal blade
ok i go relax and then it's going from nonstop title pushing to new season pushing 🙂
short radish
WR 285 or something btw 
chrome palm
i am so ready for the normal giga rat raid for curios
short radish
we did a few alt raid runs and they went horribly
though granted half of them werent geared
chrome palm
617 spriest lfg
short radish
no
runic trail
our RL doesnt trust us to do splits because we're too shit at alts or something
That's when he gets you to make mirrors
keen dome
No, next week
short radish
next week
lofty lance
ok
keen dome
Raids and M+ are 12th (13th for the europes)
clever delta
Splits are fun, you do splits at start of season only, when the raid is most fun! What is not fun is adding extra raids in the last bosses to secure some ranks, when people are sick of raid already ...
runic trail
My one trick pony ass can't be trusted playing anything non-rogue
short radish
what do we even do tommorow then xd
play teh game and have fun
keen dome
I'm excited for my absolute favourite thing in WoW: Very early heroic pugging where nobody knows what's going on and everybody has their own idea
chrome palm
i have to ask
if you do 8 dungeons on m0 next week
even after being locked out of loot
runic trail
I'm getting pissed in a field from Thursday onwards so, no m0 for me 
chrome palm
does it count for vault
short radish
does it count for vault
should
keen dome
You can't do 8, because there's only 6 available
clever delta
Should
short radish
but you want to do delves anyway
keen dome
Tazavesh isn't available iirc.
chrome palm
thats what i mean
short radish
have they reduced dungeon requirement down to 6 for vault or did i dream that
clever delta
You can't do 8, because there's only 6 available
You do two with lock out for vault
keen dome
ye ye
short radish
You can't do 8, because there's only 6 available
you can just do two dungeons again after you do the 6
you wont get loot but it counts towards vault
keen dome
Of course, it's early, I'm stupid
keen dome
Would be nice if we could
shadow snow
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
quaint hollow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBiqAewQh4s he did it again
vale pine
Nicu
hollow spear
He clickbaited again?
If you believe the titles, there's no spec that's not INCREDIBLE, or S tier
quaint hollow
thats what you do if you want clicks 😛
hollow spear
Arms warrior PATHETIC AGAIN in 11.2
quaint hollow
XD
leaden prairie
He clickbaited again? <:kekdog:907207037757296710>
is it clickbait
quaint hollow
probably more like missing important informations for the majority of viewers? (dont try this at home if you are a 2k andy in pugs)
hollow spear
I don't think sub is s tier in m+
vale pine
I mean it just highlight how a good player can make things work
void ocean
lies
hollow spear
Maybe specifically for dawn
Dawn is goated for sub
You could play sub in your phys comp, @leaden prairie
leaden prairie
I don't think sub is s tier in m+
Well it's better than most specs in the game so idk
leaden prairie
You could play sub in your phys comp, <@352916297262301194>
No I don't think so
Otherwise I would be playing assa in every key every tier
keen dome
What's your tier list for Sub, Zac
solemn hedge
Its around 18 00 eu time ?
something about that yes. NA downtimes are more of a variety then eu
winter elbow
Its around 18 00 eu time ?
maintenance will take until 00:00 eu time
clever delta
Cool
alpine wraith
maybe i need to change the title of the guide to
GODMODE SUB 11.2
better than aug in ALL CONTENT
maintenance is roulette
hollow spear
Casual with the classic casting snd from spellbook approach
alpine wraith
i wish i could A/B test titles
i usualy do quite long ones but maybe shorter ones work better
then 1 or 2 meme ones
leaden prairie
What's your tier list for Sub, Zac
I think it will be key dependant a bit, and like when you compare it to assa it's worse, but if we are being honest so is every spec in the game so
keen dome
Makes sense
leaden prairie
And like sub does insane burst, it does good prio, quite good st especially in higher keys or low keys (like you want a 3 min+ boss)
And it does good aoe or very good aoe
alpine wraith
it will be fun seeing fatebound assa
quaint hollow
im just hoping nothing bad happens tomorrow and then I'll bench my dk and go sin-season or atleast whatever future tuning does
leaden prairie
I think one of the issue of sub is that you sometime do no damage
keen dome
ye
leaden prairie
Which isn't the case of assa
But you can always play around that
I think it's similar to elem
If you get what I mean
keen dome
From what I know about elem, yeah, it makes sense.
Just gotta play around it to maximize it's potential and smooth everything else out.
keen dome
I am curious to see what keys people swap to Sub for mid-way through this season.
leaden prairie
And like sub does insane burst, it does good prio, quite good st especially in h...
these are live boss timers (in green, as you can see they would all be good sub timer since 3mni 30/4min)
while on ptr its not entirely yet the case
you are in the low 3min +
which is bad
And sub st still look insane on ptr so
keen dome
I am really curious to see how big Sub can go on Dawnbreaker final boss
keen dome
Ye, sad.
chrome palm
there are no damage amp bosses for sub this season tho
Streets
But it’s inconsistent
leaden prairie
Ye true
chrome palm
When you do get it though you can do some insane damage
leaden prairie
You could get 20 buffs on your CDs very easely
It won't be inconsistent
Street is an insane sub dungeon
Anywya
leaden prairie
I think all 3 rogue specs are particular tho
devout quarry
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
leaden prairie
all 3 require you to pull around them a bit
maybe less so assa
but even assa
assa want big packs after a restealth, and a big prio mob, pulls on bosses also
sub is sub
clever delta
All 3 rogue specs are good
chrome palm
How do you think sub compares to outlaw in physical comps
hazy breach
Eco dome has the amp boss has it not?
chrome palm
Sub is like 75% phys on some keys in ptr
leaden prairie
Eco dome has the amp boss has it not?
ye but the timers are bad
leaden prairie
How do you think sub compares to outlaw in physical comps
I think you would rather have a semi phys comp
Like war tank sham healer, sub feral dk
The full phys comp isn't made for sub damage profile imo
steel zinc
Like frost dk this season in ToP I think sub will be played at the highest level in some keys if you play a rogue
so mix between sin and sub
and outlaw plays with a monk tank
leaden prairie
and last boss is the same
chrome palm
I found myself using cds to cleave spears on that boss
leaden prairie
i get 2 stacks for free tf
quaint hollow
Classic rogue exploiter
arent those called compensation buffs?
hazy breach
and last boss is the same
Thats every 90s though, just the first one isnt
leaden prairie
ye i uges if you go into boss with cds on cd idk
but i dont think last boss damage amp is any good for sub tho
its 30%
and it last 10s at max
hazy breach
I was moreso thinking about the second boss, but ye
leaden prairie
and you have to move while taking them up
chrome palm
You can at least hold dances for it
hollow spear
like its more of a outlaw type kind of damage amp no cap
I mean, flat damage profile is bis
Max said it, cannot be wrong
hazy breach
Bursty profile but being able to move your burst around is even better
hollow spear
I always knew zac was sandbagmaxxing
leaden prairie
When sub has litteralithe best raid damage profile in the game
It's hard to make an argument
For outlaw damage profile being good
- it's not even only about flat damage
hollow spear
Guys pls, I'm kidding
leaden prairie
He mentioned how for example you would like a flat damage profile to do damage to both adds going up then to the boss going down
Except outlaw can't do that
Since the downtime will fuck it over
So
hollow spear
Yeah, that's pretty unforch
topaz egret
ADR is a bad spell
topaz egret
I mean if the class had some energy Regen outside of it it'd feel less awfull
leaden prairie
i have no argument
topaz egret
But you're just bricked
leaden prairie
I think they didn't need to nerf energy outside of ADR when they gave us Perma ADR
I think uhh being a loop is what is more problematic imo
sand flax
Hey guys I’ve noticed that on pure ST (sprocket mythic) most sub rogues are going weaponmaster over the first dance.
In latest @vale pine sims, the first dance is preffered.
Any thoughts why weapon master is less value now ?
leaden prairie
Cause well it's a loop
Instead of being self sufficient windows, you need to manage to farm enough cdrr to extend which is why it suffer so much
vale pine
Hey guys I’ve noticed that on pure ST (sprocket mythic) most sub rogues are goin...
Both is close in value so can Interchange
sand flax
Does weaponmaster can pro twice UB ?
sand flax
Hey guys I’ve noticed that on pure ST (sprocket mythic) most sub rogues are goin...
Ive found weird that 3/4 of top dmg rogues used that
steel zinc
vanish on trash so the group can chain and you have another big dance
steel zinc
Ive found weird that 3/4 of top dmg rogues used that
because its farm and nobody cares
haughty mural
Ive found weird that 3/4 of top dmg rogues used that
So late into the season they just copy/paste and be done with it without a thought
graceful osprey
Wait so I saw an icy veins article. Are we actually so back?
haughty mural
Always been
keen dome
Never not Sub season
vale pine
Basically tfd gives more burst at the start of the fight, which is good on fights with short duration or extremely good if you also have adds during that time
Very long fights or fights with the initial phase being easy don't benefit from tfd much
tight sparrow
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hazy breach
Its not that tfd is amazing
Its that wm is atrocious
(in keys tfd is good though)
But were not talking massive differences either way
void ocean
!up
wicked joltBOT
void ocean
oh its still the old one
clever delta
Old fuu would upgrade it sooner 
void ocean
so im guessing since now M0 drops 681 ilvl that m0 vault will give 690?
clever delta
694 maybe but it's champ track
hollow spear
But were not talking massive differences either way
That's true for baseline, but it kinda blasts with the predisorienting shenanigans
vale pine
Old fuu would upgrade it sooner <:kushiPepoDance:1060597787886096384>
XD I forgot tbh can do in 10 mins or so
Also, don't call me old
hollow spear
Fuu hella old
clever delta
Take your time old man
void ocean
fine, Vintage
remote shuttle
GODMODE SUB 11.2
Do It, ez +20k views
hollow spear
We're mostly old farts, aren't we
clever delta
30+ is young people now
short radish
Also, don't call me old <:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
middle aged fuu would upgrade it sooner
vale pine
lol
hollow spear
I lived in a district with a lot of students until February. I felt so god damn old.
clever delta
You age faster in Austria, that's known
haughty mural
Its nice that you have tfd during 0 stacks prism:D
Just use forge in opener
clever delta
Sure, can you give me on 
hollow spear
Whenever you mention double on use, Eleem will appear to kick you in the nuts
haughty mural
clever delta
Don't worry he will age to like it
vale pine
haughty mural
Mentioned in the guide so not my fault
vale pine
unsure if we should cut some of the information
hollow spear
Double on use is probably slightly better than baseline with predisorienting
vale pine
!up
wicked joltBOT
hollow spear
Still worse than prism + passive
leaden prairie
gg
haughty mural
Can’t use predesorienting if I never wipe and there are no critters
clever delta
I dont like the colors, but give it a day and I forgot it's different
leaden prairie
its unreadable without opening it also
clever delta
Its fine on phone
vale pine
oh i thought
leaden prairie
leaden prairie
ah ok
keen dome
I guess he's in his blue phase
clever delta
(I made it up)
clever delta
Back to work peasant
short radish
its not the same guy. This guy also releases the gear guide in this color scheme every single time
leaden prairie
vale pine
rip
leaden prairie
i bet he will update it
vale pine
he did not create a s3 ww version
clever delta
I will send him message
short radish
I will send him message
thanks for following it up mate
clever delta
The old one is still valid
short radish
hollow prawn
I think ghostopera said their health hasn’t been great and they haven’t been playing the game
short radish
remote shuttle
We're mostly old farts, aren't we
41 here, spaghetti sub
keen dome
I think ghostopera said their health hasn’t been great and they haven’t been pla...
damn, I hope their health improves
leaden prairie
I think ghostopera said their health hasn’t been great and they haven’t been pla...
damn gg
its so over
hollow prawn
short radish
keen dome
oh no
leaden prairie
Oh you made it sound way worse tbh
Just sounds like he got sick or something
He even updated it
hollow prawn
Yeah the second part of what I said was nonsense
keen dome
more spreading lies on the internet. What is happening today, smh
hollow prawn
But the turbo boost updates haven’t been implemented
haughty mural
north schooner
zac lying again 
steel zinc
What does better dam? (dont tell me to sim it) just in what scenario would you take nado over RS?
brisk onyx
whatever, i am just a tornado hater
leaden prairie
What does better dam? (dont tell me to sim it) just in what scenario would you t...
hm
brisk onyx
leaden prairie
i would sim it personally
shadow snow
!wa
wicked joltBOT
steel zinc
i would sim it personally
sim is pretty much indifferent
lilac stag
you take tornado if you can leverage the CDR imo for bosses in the key. from a sanity/enjoyment issue run RS.
keen dome
my gut feeling is tornado would do more damage 'cos you'd have free ruptures during no cd's I guess?
but also yeah what scath said, I'm team no nado
vale pine
I think ghostopera said their health hasn’t been great and they haven’t been pla...
give me 20 mins or so
lilac stag
CDR should be better in general with tier
so I personally have even less willingness to press tornado
if you can leverage it on a boss in a key, DS assa going to be better there to funnel.
if you like spreading ruptures, play it. Not my thing as sub.
steel zinc
Idk I like the build with rupture better. More realistic when a pack gets gathered and if your once in a blue moon outside of any cds you can just rupture
keen dome
I bet the difference will come down to play / route / tank more than anything substanial
lilac stag
Idk I like the build with rupture better. More realistic when a pack gets gather...
Correct. I get 2-1 and I don’t have to worry about mouse over rupture targeting. it’s an easy win for me.
short radish
fuck playing tornado
steel zinc
Just if it would be so far ahead nado that you have to play it I would so more then 3%
remote shuttle
I don't like nado messing with Shadowcraft
On big packs if u go shuriken rupture shuriken rupture, u also farm Shadowcraft stacks
lilac stag
Talent sims in dslice in general can be interesting to navigate. Tank routing and pulls can blow up the dslice profile
sly shore
Does anyone know how Cosmic Damage absorb works
Is it only damage that is tagged as cosmic
or any of the damage schools that are inside cosmic
i.e nature is absorbed because it is part of cosmic
steel zinc
Good Question!
north schooner
Does anyone know how Cosmic Damage absorb works
I assume this is still true (source: https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Magic_schools)
haughty mural
What does better dam? (dont tell me to sim it) just in what scenario would you t...
I think I’d go with RS personally if it is about equal
viral parrot
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
short radish
I personally spec into Nado and never use it
Sandbagging sims 
Sandbagging talents 
hollow spear
You got it mate
Why sandbag sims when you can just sandbag parses?
People need to get out and underperform in real life
short radish
lilac stag
Sandbagging sims <a:cross:1228242612100534294>
Sandbagging talents <a:tick:1228...
Ethical sandbagging unlike the other specs.
young mural
I know, sims and all are fake, assa sims lower, etc etc etc
but what the fuck is this
oh god you guys dont imagine how hard i love to be shafted by blizzard
short radish
blizzard working as intended
mages and warlocks on top
because its hard being the most popular specs in wow
young mural
swear to god next expansion
if rogues (especially sub) dont get a full rework, im done with this class
going mage
short radish
just go mage next patch honestly
young mural
Yhea I almost made the change this patch
keen dome
but what the fuck is this
nah I can fix this it's easy
young mural
Yhea I almost made the change this patch
but I thought rogue was supposed to be good
haughty mural
and we just need bug fixes
young mural
Yhea true, we dont NEED a rework, but I dont feel like bug-fixes and tuning only can revive the least played DPS spec
short radish
you thought wrong
conspiracy theory
blizzard doesnt want to revive the least played dps class
young mural
Idk about you guys, but sub's rotation feels clunky compared to other classes, idk how to explain it
short radish
because why bother put effort into it when no one plays it
may as well leave it gathering dirt
keen dome
remote shuttle
but what the fuck is this
Trashlist?
remote shuttle
Good One
short radish
i dont want to have to have 100% apm the entire time
i enjoy taking my hands off the keyboard and giving them a rest
young mural
i dont want to have to have 100% apm the entire time
Yhea i also enjoy this, but imo arcane mage is just ranged sub rogue + better
young mural
Ah whatever, Im literally going insane off preliminary sim numbers
hazy breach
but what the fuck is this
Not the warcraftlogs statistic page
hollow spear
The bane of Eleem's existence
young mural
Not the warcraftlogs statistic page
MY BAD ELEEM. https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/q2kE2zeq9up6RGucgW3D12/simc this source
I know I did very bad
remote shuttle
but what the fuck is this
Meanwhile casual on ptr 1M above mage and frostdk in dawn19
hazy breach
Doesnt look like warcraftlogs either
young mural
Meanwhile casual on ptr 1M above mage and frostdk in dawn19
but thats casual
and im talking about pure ST
young mural
for buffs
hollow spear
because it's above 7 mio
young mural
you'll play fatebound sin for that
lmao
the day I pickup fatebound sin for raid im done
keen dome
but thats casual
doing gods work bullying mages
hollow spear
I tried to do what he did, but they banned me from their discord 🙁
Apparently you cannot just bully mages
zealous hedge
Why not
young mural
sub is my favorite spec to raid, I will crashout if sub stays -10% behind everyone on ST
steel zinc
sub is my favorite spec to raid, I will crashout if sub stays -10% behind everyo...
yes thats how raid fights work
zealous hedge
Best i can do is add another symbols usage
hollow spear
you just snipe add spawns with your 2nd sectec and you'll be topping meters, easy
steel zinc
if the delta is ~20% its a good balanced raid tier. Rn its 30% so if they nerf frost and warlock its a good balanced tier. Also early on we are very very good
lilac stag
the two to three weeks that don’t matter for most players.
It’s the fall off that I really worry about
it be what it be
hollow spear
Kinda funny how they nerfed warlock and it's still at 6.6 mio
steel zinc
I mean ngl after 4-6 weeks you can play anything on any boss nearly
steel zinc
Kinda funny how they nerfed warlock and it's still at 6.6 mio
they buffed st nerfed aoe
was like net 0
young mural
you just snipe add spawns with your 2nd sectec and you'll be topping meters, eas...
yhea ill have to sweat my ass off but I'll snipe every single thing that this fucking raid spawns
lilac stag
I mean ngl after 4-6 weeks you can play anything on any boss nearly
You can, but it’s not exactly a great feeling struggling to look competitive in raid and you see Aug passing you.
and a dev that lets it just sit there
lilac stag
no one is playing Aug. Lol
hollow spear
no matter what wcl says
lilac stag
Overall is a thing mate
hollow spear
idc about any overall
steel zinc
You can, but it’s not exactly a great feeling struggling to look competitive in ...
Aug is really good, just 99% of the player base doesnt have the correct log hooks to read them
and you probably will see aug in rwf I would bet money on it
if you play evoker
lilac stag
And Dev was even better
hollow spear
I heard they will be cranking in S3
hollow spear
It's just very under the radar
haughty mural
Like us
steel zinc
Also evoker does now 70% of its dmg in its own rotation
only 1/3 comes from buffing others
steel zinc
Fatebound Assa is lowkey something you might see two off. Since its just insane boss dps.
haughty mural
Based
hollow spear
People can post sims all day long, I am still coping that I'll clap cheeks in my guild raid
haughty mural
Ofc we will
lilac stag
Fatebound Assa is lowkey something you might see two off. Since its just insane ...
I won’t be surprised by this. but people are focused on adds now. just makes for arguments.
haughty mural
Timings look promising
hollow spear
Between fatebound sin in single target and sub on any other fights (especially amps or add spawns on timer)
We are going to be gucci
lilac stag
start as sub to get tier and prism
steel zinc
start as sub to get tier and prism
Also Prism lowkey is bis for fatebound assa just imo some are sleeping on it.
You wont lust many important fights on pull
mostly last two never on pull
Kill pull I mean not prog
long lava
Are rogues gonna be overplayed?
lilac stag
Also Prism lowkey is bis for fatebound assa just imo some are sleeping on it.
There’s a lot sleeping on it until you see lust timings
zealous hedge
Give me fatebound on sub
steel zinc
There’s a lot sleeping on it until you see lust timings
wdym by that?
hollow spear
90% + of the pop will still stick to 5min patchwerk sims
lilac stag
that trinket isn’t “bis” for most specs
steel zinc
like 90 sec fatebound assa lust and execute yeah goodbye any other spec in the game
steel zinc
that trinket isn’t “bis” for most specs
no no only from week 3 when everyone sees 5min sims are not everything
hollow spear
I don't think there's too many fights where you lust on execute tbh
Can think of one
lilac stag
no no only from week 3 when everyone sees 5min sims are not everything
That’s what I said
steel zinc
I don't think there's too many fights where you lust on execute tbh
Endboss says Hello
lilac stag
I don't think there's too many fights where you lust on execute tbh
The ones that matter most likely. Haha
Mugz
steel zinc
Endboss has in execute or close to it lust phase
also the freaking dragon on nexus king
lilac stag
or close to execute
hollow spear
My money is on it not being in execute
steel zinc
like vexxie
lilac stag
looking at warrior tuning, my bet it is in execute
hollow spear
warrior was overtuned beginning of this season
lilac stag
or they just suck
hollow spear
and they didnt play it on Mug
steel zinc
yeah if warrior is tuned well no good execute fight since legion if warrior is tuned poorly assa stars rise
hollow spear
not sure that is any indication
And there were still lots of guilds that played sub for Mug progression early on
lilac stag
they didn’t know the tech
hollow spear
It's always a timer thing
What tech lol
You don't need a PhD for that, there's just other factors that play a role
lilac stag
assa cleaves off everything outside of jail, in execute. It was the the best melee in that fight.
you had two sets of CDs in execute
you VE’d out instantly if you got a last jail
steel zinc
we played two assa rogues during prog and only when we started to skip the 2nd cage set I played sub for p1 dmg
steel zinc
i think its forgivable to not know caustic noclips
just watch liquid they have better analysis then echo. Even without assa buffs it was better then sub. Exile played assa, perfecto sub
maiden oar
yeah i did watch and i knew
lilac stag
it wasn’t even close how much better assa was for prog there when you had “normal” mugzee prog kill times
maiden oar
but i think alot of raid leads / rogue players had no idea and its kind of unintuitive so i dont hold them at fault
compared to like the mage stuff which is way more obvious
lilac stag
not faulting anyone. If you don’t know you don’t know.
someone at some point had to catch it
maiden oar
oh no was agreeing with u
steel zinc
but i think alot of raid leads / rogue players had no idea and its kind of unint...
ngl then your raidlead is dogshit. That cleaving I didnt know my raidlead told me.
maiden oar
was saying u need maybe not a phd
steel zinc
Tbf I have a good raidleader^^
maiden oar
but like a bachelors
hollow spear
There's obviously no public logs. But you hit 35% on MugZee at 5 minutes and it died at around 8 minutes.
lilac stag
but like a bachelors
Or just slam head against keeb until boss dies 
hollow spear
You would only get one DM window in
maiden oar
ngl then your raidlead is dogshit. That cleaving I didnt know my raidlead told m...
i wasnt able to do it until i trialed for new guild
some people just do not know
but it felt so cool once i noclipped the goons
hollow spear
And if we're making the argument that sub being strong early doesn't count for "normal guilds"
steel zinc
There's obviously no public logs. But you hit 35% on MugZee at 5 minutes and it ...
northern sky is the only top guild that public logs.
Rest are idiots
XD
hollow spear
Then we cannot make the cleaving argument, because most "normal guilds" are too ass to actually position prisons and boss correctly for cleave 😄
lilac stag
You held DM for the 35% you got a kB and and second full DM
maiden oar
what is the gain to not public logging after rwf is over
lilac stag
What do you mean only one DM
maiden oar
is it just anti poaching
steel zinc
Then we cannot make the cleaving argument, because most "normal guilds" are too ...
then your raiding in a guild where its just bad and its like rtwl 😄
lilac stag
My ass guild positioned them just fine and were in the 1500 range
maiden oar
northern sky is the only top guild that public logs.
i think poptart corndog does (i know bc i studied hawkerton logs to learn dh)
steel zinc
yeah but above lets say 500 you have so much dmg amp buff and gear you can play anything. People would just play one button rotation and focus on mechanics they would kill the fights
hollow spear
And at wr 1500 or whatever, cleaving the gaols didnt matter anymore anyways
maiden oar
yeah i have no clue i went from wr1800 as first guild to trialing in wr300 this upcoming tier
so i entirely skipped over the middle guys
keen dome
Hell yeah, big leap
lilac stag
And at wr 1500 or whatever, cleaving the gaols didnt matter anymore anyways
You said they can’t do it, it wasn’t a discussion of if it mattered.
shadow snow
!wa
wicked joltBOT
maiden oar
i did go from holding vanish to hit the goon in gaol to kill it to velfing out and cleaving with caustic though
but i think late ce conventional wisdom is to just stuff as many guys into gaols as possible
which is generally wise if you dont have noclip hack doinb spatter rogue
lilac stag
yeah we kept minimum out
it was me and a healer
go from not showing up on details to top of it lol
maiden oar
lilac stag
stills ends up being a bit of a race to not get run over by the army of bombs. one of the rekills the DK tank ended up soloing the last bit 
differnt struggles for the 6 hours old farts guilds
maiden oar
yea
lilac stag
re(prog)clear on the bosses we only did once was comedy
the timings even changed enough from all the gear that got added it was something special
sturdy tundra
Hey, is this channel for WoW Retail only, or for MoP too?
sturdy tundra
ty
runic trail
Re(prog)clear was horrendous, never again
lilac stag
i think you had it worse than us and you got gally down a day earlier
runic trail
89 pulls on mugzee
Tbf we lost like 35℅ of the team after we got CE
So it was actual reprog
young mural
What gild?
young mural
Tbf we lost like 35℅ of the team after we got CE
Rip
clever delta
We were struggling with rekills so hard that im actually scared of next season 😄
runic trail
Our saving grace was that Gally was only a 14 pull reclear so, that's fine. That was with new people as well
untold bone
lilac stag
whenever bloddmallet posts them, wowhead guides all have recommended
tribal blade
holy shit i found another person i know on the title buyer list
makes so much sense now
lilac stag
i worry about you friend
tribal blade
nah this is interesting
slate lantern
is it possible to make a weakaura that whenever those players show up in dorn that it highlights them so we can publically shame them
tribal blade
t r u e
lilac stag
nah this is interesting
do share
swift tinsel
hell yeah its possible
swift tinsel
do it flame them
tribal blade
1 person i know well on this list i suspected because of his IO, he's snugglepooh
his is very egregious
keen dome
is it possible to make a weakaura that whenever those players show up in dorn th...
This would absolutely fall within harassment using addons, which Blizz.. do not like. Just as an FYI.
tribal blade
but i know quite a few people on this list
graceful osprey
Today is 11.2 correct?
keen dome
In the US, yep.
tribal blade
going through their IO and yeah it's pretty clear they bought
keen dome
In EU, tomorrow.
keen dome
going through their IO and yeah it's pretty clear they bought
I think that's always gonna be the clincher. Just the obvious jumps'n shit, right?
tribal blade
I think that's always gonna be the clincher. Just the obvious jumps'n shit, righ...
i wonder if blizz actually does anything about this
void ocean
why is it a big deal if anyone bought it
tribal blade
it would be kinda cool if they did
lilac stag
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xJGKq1kTmKgm_n62ahhY57ZE_uQTmjtqRkGtMTJN...
i get it, but man there being a black list is fucking hilarious
keen dome
i wonder if blizz actually does anything about this
No chance.
slate lantern
This would absolutely fall within harassment using addons, which Blizz.. do not ...
well i wouldnt have it like auto whisper or anything
tribal blade
why is it a big deal if anyone bought it
because it's based on %, so it means you take someone else's spot
swift tinsel
3pm PST, wanna take bets on actual live time
void ocean
because it's based on %, so it means you take someone else's spot
fair
slate lantern
buying CE? who cares. buying title? scum shit
lilac stag
you're literraly taking shit away from someone that earned it