assassination

[balmy condor]

Theotar with crit/haste tea > nadjia > theo with agi/Vers tea

[echo island]

Aight

Thx

[brazen zodiac]

mornin whisp

[balmy condor]

[brazen zodiac]

hope ur days ROCKIN

[balmy condor]

Idk it’s 8am

[unreal maple]

taking into account sub is simming (theoretically) around 14k with full gear+tier+2 legendaries, assa will be competive at all with the current info we have?

[bleak sky]

perhaps

[brazen zodiac]

perhaos

[hollow river]

percaps

[charred wraith]

i mean you also have to take into account like what, first 2 mythic weeks?

bc we wont have 2d legendary straight away

also tier set doesnt come as a given

[limber lion]

Pretty much does tbh

[brazen zodiac]

sup cev

[charred wraith]

did they refuse from additional loot table for tier sets when introduced tokens, or that separate loot table just comes in tokens now?

[limber lion]

Gonna be honest, I have no clue what that sentence says

[charred wraith]

yeah i need to catch up on that, all i remember that bosses were dropping regular loot pieces + as many tier pieces, which were on a separate loot table (like conduits), which resulted in 2x amount of loot compared to current state

and then there was a blue post about tokens

[jaunty steeple]

they changed that, though not exactly sure how

[limber lion]

That's what's happening in 9.2, correct.

[jaunty steeple]

think there was a post about reducing the loot since it was dropping more than intended

[limber lion]

We get normal loot and 4x bonus items from the bosses that drop loot tier items.

[limber lion]

That's in Castle Nathria, correct.

[jaunty steeple]

no, for 9.2 PTR

[limber lion]

But the change was reverted soon after.

Huh

[jaunty steeple]

https://ptr.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-reveals-specific-details-on-tier-sets-in-patch-9-2-creation-catalyst-325798?webhook

"The PTR’s there for testing, and rather unfortunately you all found a nasty bug that doubled the loot tables."

[balmy condor]

Yeah

They reduced tier to 2 pieces

Not 4

Still bonus loot though

[jaunty steeple]

yee

[modest apex]

for venthyr will dashing or doomblade be better for 9.2?

[bleak sky]

dusk

[spice spire]

It’s in the pins

[gusty mirage]

Obedience until you get the 4pc

[spice spire]

Full spreadsheet of what’s good

On mythic week and all

[bleak sky]

what's good: makeitquake

[gusty mirage]

But yes whispyr simmed early 9.2 sims prior to getting the tier pieces

[spice spire]

That’s a damn lie

[gusty mirage]

What’s a damn lie

[grizzled jay]

What's good: boners

[spice spire]

Me being good

Thought I responded to mister minalba

[gusty mirage]

You’re amazing

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

And if not you, def George

[hollow river]

At least someone is thinking

[spice spire]

I mean duh, that goes without saying

[hollow river]

[gusty mirage]

Your profile banner

[bleak sky]

dog

[grizzled jay]

Imagine not wanting to throw your bone at enemies

[gusty mirage]

Ain’t much to throw unfortunately

[grizzled jay]

Hey man, someone loves you for who you are

[gusty mirage]

[dark token]

https://i.imgur.com/Y5vGXOR.png 2nd pf run, alt luck is real

[upbeat needle]

Talking to a friend who leads a guild, they're currently on KT. No shot they get CE this tier, yeah?

[hollow river]

You never know, they could

If patch doesn’t hit until mid March. Depends on their hours and how fast they can prog it

[dark token]

you dont know when blizz drops 9.1 but probably sylv prog at least a month for guilds on KT now

[hollow river]

Yeah

[upbeat needle]

I'm thinking March more than likely

[hollow river]

That’s what it’s starting to look like

[upbeat needle]

There also Alliance 😦

[hollow river]

Alliance actually helps

If they have a decent roster

[upbeat needle]

I have CE already and am looking for a guild. They're usually US 250+ but roster boss FUCKED them

No their roster is very scuffed

[hollow river]

Dwarves can get rid of chain debuff

Roster boss was tough this tier

[shy dust]

That’s a good thing

[upbeat needle]

how's it look?

[jaunty steeple]

why are you sorting by ilvl

[upbeat needle]

yea roster boss fucked so much shit

Oh I just wanted to see who was the lowest on the team

in terms of gear

[jaunty steeple]

kinda wondering how someone is at 241 at this point doing end mythic boss prog

[upbeat needle]

Not quite sure. I know a few of them swapped mains

But like at this point probably better to just call the tier and regear whatever they want to main for 9.2

After killing KT

[gusty mirage]

All it takes is 1 good pull so anything can happen but times def against them

Cuz ngl during prog I started to doubt if we’d ever kill it before 9.2 and that was back in November

[bleak sky]

243 feral 242 disc 241 fdk

[spice spire]

They need minalbafel to carry them

[bleak sky]

no they need minalbadead to tank for them

I need jaithys

[hollow river]

Warrior discord

Is

We are spoiled

[spice spire]

Yes

[brazen zodiac]

sup gamers

[hollow river]

[spice spire]

GM gamer

[brazen zodiac]

wyd

[hollow river]

I asked what cov people were thinking for 9.2

No one had the same answer

[oak sky]

necro

[spice spire]

Bad move buddy

[spice spire]

For fury

[hollow river]

Lolol

[spice spire]

Less good for arms

[bleak sky]

banner simp

[oak sky]

it has to be necro or kyrian

right?

[hollow river]

Yeah I’m thinking of going necro and NF

[bleak sky]

or night fae or venthyr

[oak sky]

venthyr sucks for sure

[spice spire]

Arms loves aftershock

[hollow river]

Venthyr is best

[bleak sky]

they're all good

[spice spire]

Yeah that’s the yoke here

[oak sky]

if its an alt kyrian if its main necro

heard it here first

[spice spire]

Venthyr probably the worst by slight with 4p

[hollow river]

Venthyr sims the best

Slightly, but ye

[spice spire]

Their APL is a bit sketch

[oak sky]

so ur playing fury?

[hollow river]

It’s a good possibility yeah

[strange python]

is... assa doing less than outlaw in 9.2 in ST >_>

[limber lion]

who knows

[arctic walrus]

It already does without externals this patch so lol

[strange python]

just saw it in a lil

graph

and was surprised

[limber lion]

Why are you surprised?

Outlul is bad

[oak sky]

hes surprised he saw outlaw doing more no?

[alpine latch]

At least for me, Outlaw technically sims higher for me than Sin does even now.

[brazen zodiac]

"outlul"

i screamed

[alpine latch]

Doesn't mean it actually performs as well as it sims, though

[strange python]

I

i don't know our job is st and law doing more dam was kinda weird

nothing for certain obviously

thats all

[oak sky]

any class that has high tuned st can do st

[strange python]

yea

its just

weird

: P

to me

[limber lion]

Yeh

We're not super duper great in terms of raw numbers

But we're still the best class in raids generally because of our kit

[alpine latch]

Eh, I mean ... Sub hangs with us in ST and performs better in AoE as well

[limber lion]

Outlaw stinks

If Sub and Sin sim the same, Sin will be played a bunch more

If Sub sims a bunch higher, then people will lean toward Sub

Hopefully all 3 of our specs are tuned well in 9.2

[alpine latch]

Agreed. Unless Sub is just far and away the play, if it's close I'd rather stay Sin

[arctic walrus]

Hoooly

[hollow river]

Ha ha funny yoke brother

[limber lion]

don't tell em but all I care about is assa

i just want to be a good boy

and not a hater

[strange python]

tfw you test outlaw for 5 minutes and your fingers already hurt

[hollow river]

[spice spire]

I remember your sub days

[clever kindle]

Im working on writing a book during energy pooling periods in Sin actually

(in tiers were not using dashing)

[hollow river]

?

Dashing doesn’t stop you from pooling a ton

[arctic walrus]

Assa is fine just not in this external world

It’s the standard now and I bet we’ll have to deal with prog logs of rogues getting simped still

[strange python]

im a past feral player, my hands are fragile

i wasn't joking tho it actually hurt my hand

i don

don't think i can play that

[oak sky]

you don't have to

[strange python]

ya i know, i was just checking it out is all : )

[clever kindle]

Its not for everyone

slot machine class fun though

[strange python]

for sure, it seems fun maybe i just have boomer hands at 20

[hollow river]

Please don’t insult Oxi’s hands he’s a really nice guy

[spice spire]

@gusty mirage you gonna take this slander?

Best parse being outlaw in castle nathria?

[strange python]

not all boomer hands are as talented as oxi 👀

[tidal gorge]

I don't like outlaw coz it feels like whack a mole with sometimes CDR and sometimes not CDR based on the dice. My brain likes the more consistent and predictable ability CDs so I don't have to stare at my WA to know what I can push

[strange python]

not getting main gauche procs makes my brain sad

[hollow river]

All specs have CDR next tier

[tidal gorge]

Key being, predictable vs. random CDR

[hollow river]

Outlaws is fairly predictable, just not always the same depending on broadsides etc

[glass tulip]

Low-key my hands been hurting at 23🤣

Been playing too much

No stretching

[oak sky]

facts

when i was stuck on a laptop kb

💀

[glass tulip]

I try to stretch now but I need to learn how to do it better. Watching jpc move on his keyboard looks just like hell though 🤣

[oak sky]

mouse buttons are your best friend

[spice spire]

29 and keyboard only gaming.
Though I did used to use 1-0

That stressed it out more than now, it’s 1-7 and letter buttons that are local

[oak sky]

1-7 the fuck

I barely go past 4

5 qnd 6 are buttons i almost never press

[fleet anchor]

Given your other points, doesn't that just mean everyone will play Assassination? And, if so, realistically we don't need all 3 specs to be tuned well, just Assassination! Simplify! 🤣

[glass tulip]

5 trinket, 6 no.

I only have fps buttons on mouse

[fleet anchor]

(I jest, I like playing other specs for anyone else in here who doesn't know)

[limber lion]

I just want the angry pirates and the emo ninjas to be happy as well :')

[glass tulip]

Ccs and defensives go there and on scroll

[spice spire]

7 pot, 5 vendetta, 6 trinket

[winter vapor]

so MFD is 20 sec prepull, SNd at 15 sec?

[limber lion]

MFD at 20s, SnD at 3

If you care about 7 dps

if not, just hold off from using MFD pre-pull

[winter vapor]

ah, didnt realise it wasnt that much of a big deal

thanks @limber lion as always though

[gusty mirage]

nah my nine parse shits on my outlaw heroic sludge parse

[spice spire]

Oh true

Forgot about that au naturale beauty

But you gonna accept that slander?

[gusty mirage]

cev and I are holding hands on the leaderboards

[fleet anchor]

Cute!

[spice spire]

Man actually doesn’t have a fatescribe kill

That’s wild

That he’s that high missing a whole fight

[dark token]

only plebs kill fatescribe

[gusty mirage]

yikes

that doesn't look like you were carried at all

no sir

[glass tulip]

Not at all, I full cleared on my first try too

[gusty mirage]

same

[dark token]

just 1shot all the bosses

carry your raid 1v19

[gusty mirage]

I can't I suck

[limber lion]

I want to do Fatescribe but we haven't done it a single time in 5 weeks :'(

[dark token]

fate's not even that bad idk why people hate it

sylv feels worse

[limber lion]

Sylv is goated

It's a great fight once you stop wiping 10 times every week to it

[dark token]

yeah i thought that too

weve been 1shotting it

then randomly had 7 wipes today and i wanted to die

its also more fun on rogue than on monk

[gusty mirage]

it'd be great if there weren't 9 rives in p1 intermission

between that intermission and all of p2

its a snooze

p3 is fucking great though

so it makes up for it

[copper sundial]

P3 is fun

I dont mind fatescribe but we only killed him twice. Always skipping him

[clever kindle]

got to 57% p3 sylv last night

12% still seems like a lot though

[winter gale]

Hi there, can anyone tell me is there any wa for immunity when its time to use it on Guardian?

[hollow river]

ERT note and raid leader call out

[copper sundial]

Hm if you're soaking just cloak as soon as the yellow circle shows up. It will last for both circles.

[hollow river]

Yeah fight is very scripted though as long as all batteries are hit with bombs and soaks are done properly

Missing mechanics throws the Energy off and speeds everything up

[copper sundial]

Just move away from sunder after you soak obliterate.

[winter gale]

My guild is hlping me to gear up, its a reclear and I died on obliterate soak

As soon as obliterate shows up I can press Cloak?

[hollow river]

You need to Cloak it as soon as you see the yellow circle

Yes

[winter gale]

Ok

[copper sundial]

Yeah

[hollow river]

You can soak both yellow circles

[winter gale]

Fuck it, they told me to time it or something 😄

[hollow river]

The brown circles will kill you

[fleet anchor]

lol if our tanks didn't suddenly need Fatescribe again for the trinket after the change I think we might actually skip it at the end of raid. I don't think a single other person in raid needs any loot from that boss.

[hollow river]

It’s usually the 3rd vault slot for almost half our raid

We voted on it last night, cleared the other 9 in 1 night

[fleet anchor]

Yeah I suppose that's fair

[hollow river]

But we’re doing fate tonight

I mean if we all got our 9 bosses no one would care to do it

But we’re weaving in so many trials into farm

[fleet anchor]

I mean we're still doing it anyway now because of tank alt/rerolls wanting the trinket for next tier

Which is kinda cringe that they're changing the trinket but w/e lol

[hollow river]

How are they changing it?

[surreal prism]

https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=186434/weave-of-warped-fates?bonus=6805

[bleak sky]

it's gonna be kael trinket but better

[fleet anchor]

Yeah turning it into an actual cheat instead of the fake battle rez thing

[gusty mirage]

didn't it used to consume a BR too early on?

[fleet anchor]

Yeah it was really jank

[gusty mirage]

hopefully none of our tanks find out

but we clear it every week anyway

[fleet anchor]

Also tanks lost all their threat since they totally died

So that went about as well as you'd expect

[grave trail]

Sylv p2 is the worst part of SoD

and rive p1 should finish as soon as chains are dead

[grizzled jay]

Is Sylv p2 worse than N'Zoth p2

[fleet anchor]

Probably

[limber lion]

N'zoth was chill

[fleet anchor]

Although I'd like to sign a petition for all pointless intermissions to be banned

That are just there to pad out fight length so I'm more angry when we wipe 18 minutes into a pull

[gusty mirage]

yea I don't need to see 63 rives in a night of prog

that's obnoxious

[hollow river]

Anyone know the latest timing you can send your first Flag in p3 to squeeze in 4 flags?

Like can you hold until after the very first Veil or nah

[cerulean junco]

Are you going to be getting near the enrage?

Like p3 starts ~8:30 banshees fury 6 is at ~14 minutes

First veil is 25 seconds after phase 3

[hollow river]

yeah we lust ~13:30

first veil is like

a lot sooner than 25 sec

it's like not even 10 sec iirc?

i tried to Flag after the first Veil last night, at ~8:45. and i scuffed fitting 4 by holding my 2nd until after a veil i think

[cerulean junco]

That 25 seconds is probably included intermission time between p2/p3

Where you are stunned

[hollow river]

just trying to figure out if i can Flag at ~8:45 after first Veil, then on CD for 2nd one and still get 2 more, with Vend, and with Vend+lust

ohh yeah i get you now my bad

i typically Flag on first GCD of 2nd burn

to try and get it back asap

[round harbor]

anyone down for a log review? i think i know what all is wrong but just wanna make sure im not missing anything.

1. chest no enchanted, ouch. just got this in raid havent had time to enchant yet
2. low conduits, and well stated, but low ilvl gear.
3. using "prepot" a few globals too early, bad habit of just popping it on pull for me instead of with CD's
4. get a phial. ive run 38 plague falls this season, havent gotten one
   https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LWx7y4z9F6fkAVBp#fight=37&type=summary&source=9

[oak canopy]

If you are belf using mfd do you use the racial in the opener? There is a time in the opener with lust that you are waiting for energy wondering if it's worth

[hollow river]

you use MFD after Flag in opener, while building Flag stacks

there's just naturally a time before you Garrote where you are starved

you could use Arcance Torrent there, but it's kind of a waste during Lust

[carmine dawn]

the cev method is before vendetta, before garrote

wait one sec lemme get muscle memory working

[oak canopy]

After vanish should you mut envenom mfd envenom or vanish mfd envenom mut envenom?

[carmine dawn]

after 2nd mutilate when MA ends. so mut-snd-mut-arcane torrent-garrote-flag-rup-blah blah

the best scenario for vanish is two envenoms

in MA window

[hollow river]

shiv->vanish->mut->envenom->MFD->envenom is fine

it's not a super big gain either way you do it

pretty minor

[chilly cave]

My guild wants me to start the 9.2 tier as sub. I feel sin will be better for progging on fights. They believe sub is ahead of sin. Just play sub and you will get better while we progress. Thoughts?

[carmine dawn]

it depends on the fight tbh

[viscid spear]

Do they know better than you do? I mean you play the class, do they value your opinion?

I don't mean to sound harsh

[carmine dawn]

its not about that

they just asked him to learn sub for next tier.

its about coming back with a valid argument for why sin is better

traditionally sin is better for prog, as the uptime on bleeds/psns ticks when you're off doing/learning mechanics.

[chilly cave]

I just need some perspective and points I can help make

[viscid spear]

I mean both specs are just fine, aren't they? In terms of outlook

[chilly cave]

But yes It is no stress to learn sub either

[viscid spear]

You should be fine either way, as long as you're comfortable

[carmine dawn]

depends on the fight too

[hollow river]

sub looks so far ahead of sin because of mythic sylvanas daggers

[viscid spear]

If you're willing to swap on fights then by all means, personal preference

[carmine dawn]

if an add spawns every 30 seconds that needs prio then yeah. sin is better for shiv focus dmg

[hollow river]

if you can't get sylvanas daggers, then the gap is much smaller

[carmine dawn]

if theres a ton of small adds that die fast then sub is better to funnel prio dmg

[chilly cave]

Oh this is a good one.

[viscid spear]

Does it have to be double EoN or is just one enough to skew it in Sub's favor?

[chilly cave]

I doubt I'll have syl daggers before tier

[hollow river]

subs baseline is a bit better than the other 2 specs, with no dom shards and no tier set etc

but early prog i think all 3 are fine if you don't have sylv daggers

[viscid spear]

What's Sub's cov of choice looking like?

[hollow river]

i mean 1 mythic EoN is huge for sub, but having 1 in OH is also quite good gain

sub is looking mostly like kyrian

[viscid spear]

Well I'm not getting a Mythic EoN, lol

[hollow river]

even normal or heroics

[viscid spear]

[hollow river]

are decent

[viscid spear]

Great, more incentive to have all 4 at 80

[hollow river]

[viscid spear]

3/4 so far

[chilly cave]

By huge gain we talking like 500dps? Is there a pin with sims

[hollow river]

you can farm Normal and Heroic for them too

[hollow river]

i think so yes

there's no posted sims with sub w/ and w/o EoN

fuu has them somewhere i think, but he'd likely have to dig to find them so idk about that

[viscid spear]

I always try to scope a Sylv kill as soon after reset as possible, tons of people try to knock it out asap so they don't have to worry for the rest of the week and can leisurely do whatever other bosses for vault options.

[chilly cave]

Ok all good no stress

[hollow river]

you could probably sim it

[tame coyote]

we gonna craft dusk on finger?

[hollow river]

we aren't 100% sure yet

but we won't need Dusk until we have 4p

[viscid spear]

Gonna be a couple weeks into the patch before we have to deal with that

[hollow river]

yeah

might be able to just skip 262 altogether for Dusk so i'm not buying a 262 base

[tame coyote]

smart, so we just start with doom ig

[hollow river]

nope

obedience

[tame coyote]

gotcha, got both so no worries

[hollow river]

lvling NF renown and whatnot would be smartest prep for right now

[viscid spear]

thankfully I'm done

[ebon lichen]

Whats the best way to level renown from scratch? Obviously the lvl 40 boa item, whats best farmable content after

[tame coyote]

torghast+campaign

layer 9

[stark oak]

What’s the opening sequence for venthyr sub rogue now? Also how many targets aoe do we stop rupturing and use envenon hoping for poison bomb? Have been playing sub rogue and it’s been a while since I played sin 😩

[hollow river]

#subtlety

[viscid spear]

Do you mean Venthyr Sin Rogue?

[stark oak]

Yeah venthyr sin rogue sorry 😂

[viscid spear]

bc your other questions didn't match up

[stark oak]

Yeah I’m useless sorry

[bleak sky]

are you talking about raid or...?

[stark oak]

Single target and aoe rotation yeah

[bleak sky]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[bleak sky]

check them out

[stark oak]

Thank you I did read icy veins but I like to see what others are doing

[viscid spear]

Wowhead's is good bc Whispyr wrote it

[stark oak]

Ok ive noticed the guides say mutilate from stealth, do sin rogues not dot as many targets with garrotte with subfertge anymore?

[bleak sky]

different talents, different openers

[stark oak]

Yeah obviously master assassin for raids

With dungeons would you use subfertge and dot as many with garrotte?

[gusty mirage]

yup

[brave moth]

Do you folks think there's a chance we see a change in deathspike legendary? That would make necro playable. in 9.2?

[gusty mirage]

honestly? probably not

[arctic walrus]

if I had to lie? probably

[gusty mirage]

[brave moth]

So it will be NF sin then? cuz venthyr is shit to play tbh. idk

I still play with necro/doomblade on live

[viscid spear]

Had two people on the gauntlet in NW

One got sent on the first and was still there when the second exile happened

They were the same class/spec, guess what that was?

[brave moth]

whats the gauntlet

[viscid spear]

On last boss in Necrotic Wake, when he does Dark Exile

[brave moth]

ah i understand now

[viscid spear]

Gotta run through hazards, kill a mob, grab an angel flight back up

[brave moth]

what were they?

so they took to long to kill it?

[viscid spear]

Naw, we were fine, it's just they both took a while

Both Frost Mages, starved for procs

[oak sky]

Whoever was asking about renown leveling callings and weeklies are the best, mad consistent and less boring than spamming torgy for a chance at nothing

[glass tulip]

Although torghast spam for a while is useful to get cinders for leggos

[amber fossil]

make sure you use the account bound item to renown 40 right away, so you dont miss out on the renown you get for new soulbinds

[glass tulip]

^

Buy one for each cov

[amber fossil]

yup, just saying there is a lot of easy renown lost if you use the item after you set up the new cov

[humble ginkgo]

is best tea crit or haste

[viscid spear]

And the Conduit item gives you all 4 Cov conduits too

[arctic walrus]

nadjia

stop gambling

[hollow river]

both are good

crit or haste tea usually pulls ahead of Nadjia

you can sim which one is the best, that idk

[jaunty steeple]

which one's proc fucks you in the ass least tho

thrill seeker or shade

[arctic walrus]

wait skip bro pls dont tell me you're playing assa

[humble ginkgo]

I have nadjia for sub conduits and I cba going back to the cov hall

[arctic walrus]

I just got my fresh parses and ur about to smoke me

[humble ginkgo]

im just bored in a hc pug bro

im not smoking anything

do I play mfd or vigor vel

also I only have obe at 262

[arctic walrus]

okay what the actual southern hemisphere upside down toilet flushing counter clockwise type shit are you on

[bleak sky]

nadja for sub

[hollow river]

you play mfd

[humble ginkgo]

idk bro

[hollow river]

every

where

[humble ginkgo]

I never touched venthyr

[hollow river]

blindside/deeper for guardian

just hold every other mfd for flag if using obedience iirc

[hollow river]

mut-snd-mut-garr-flag-rupt-vendetta-shiv-vanish-mut-envenom-mfd-enveom

[humble ginkgo]

ok

do I align vend and flag

[hollow river]

every other flag ye with Obe

[humble ginkgo]

ok

[hollow river]

idk if CT would even be worth running in heroic

maybe for render? if it's a pug maybe adds live a bit

but meh

[gusty mirage]

no shot

adds melt in heroic boosts

oh wait

its a pug?

prolly idk

[hollow river]

yeah that's what i'm saying lmao

render/KT it could be decent in a pug but depends on the group's dam

[glass tulip]

You will be the highest damage by a long shot

Take CT

[timid cloud]

Depends on if you have a DK in the group & if the Hunters hold CD's just to pad on the adds too.

[balmy condor]

I would like to provide an alternate take

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=270061/hidden-blades

[amber fossil]

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[amber fossil]

Just switched to NF and working on renown, but is there any rotation info out there now? Is sepsis then Vend a good opener?

MA talent with Doomblade lego

nah, thats prob silly

[sonic schooner]

U use sepsis as u were using flag as venthyr

[amber fossil]

pron mut to build cps, eh

coming from necro

never played venth

[sonic schooner]

Yea kinda something like

Mut snd mut garr sepsis vend shiv

And u wanna vanish to get 2 crit env + sepsis proc during MA if I understood sims

[amber fossil]

ok ty, much apprec

that sounds much better

[sonic schooner]

Not 100% sure about it but it seems logic and that's what sims are using 🤷‍♂️

You re very welcome, I sometimes miss necro

[amber fossil]

makes sense

I think I am really going to miss having another anged attack

ranged*

and the coolest sound of any abilty ;p

[sonic schooner]

Yea it definitely hit

U also gonna miss the first parry on sbs opening kek

Just wanna tell u, I played 2 weeks of fae, sepsis actually feels such as a waste of gcd, it's so bad xD

Can't believe that it s gonna become bis with 4pc

[amber fossil]

well, this is all just getting a head start from next patch, so..

[sonic schooner]

Yep

Better working on it right now

[brazen zodiac]

lool

[hollow river]

You can do a Quick Sim and look at the cast sequence the bot does

Next patch the rotation changes up a bit

[oak sky]

its definitely slightly scuffed but rn its probably mut snd mut gar rupture sepsis shiv vendetta vanish mut envenom mut

[hollow river]

Sepsis/shiv/vendetta everything is cast differently I think

[oak sky]

just my guess

[hollow river]

Yeah I think I’d agree Ag, just going off instinct

[spice spire]

I don’t remember it either, I know that’s not it tho

[hollow river]

Oh

You’d want shiv with sepsis wouldn’t you?

[oak sky]

oh wait

[hollow river]

Obv not to the extent as next tier maybe?

[oak sky]

is it giga scuffed where you sepsis during the last part of the first MA

[amber fossil]

thx for the input guys, I know this is all subject to change

[viscid spear]

I saw that

[oak canopy]

lies

[fleet anchor]

I don’t know if I can deal with 8 more months of people debating Vendetta/Shiv/Sepsis cast orders for 5 dps differences. 🤣

[spice spire]

That 5 dps is THE difference on the kill tho

[amber fossil]

well, there's always checkers in the meantime ;p

[viscid spear]

I prefer chess, the mansport

[fleet anchor]

Not allowed to call things scuffed unless it’s at least 0.5% 😄

[amber fossil]

true that, thinking man's game

[viscid spear]

You guys should be wasting your time on the rocket mount from the holiday boss

Before you know it it'll be 9.2

[fleet anchor]

I’d vote for working on chess over farming 🚀

Your goal should be for your chess rating to be double your all star points

[agile geode]

If only we could be competitive with necrolord

[fleet anchor]

[oak sky]

bro thats so cursed

[agile geode]

Last tier we make 3 kills thanks ti heirmir Reborn

[oak sky]

i would be a gm

[agile geode]

Dont Remember the name of the ability

The First of heirmir wich made you resurrect for 10 sec

[spice spire]

Gemstone reveries?

[fleet anchor]

Let that be your motivation

[oak sky]

forgeborne reveries

gemstone is heimirs arsenal the 3 option tier

[agile geode]

My God what a fking Cool ability

[fleet anchor]

The more externals you get the more you have to grind chess.com

[spice spire]

Oh yeah

[agile geode]

No joke 2 kill in hc and 1 in mythic

Thanks to it

[fleet anchor]

This tier it's not so bad though right? Even the top all-star points atm is only 956. 1912 rating isn't that terrible to reach if you're good!

[grim tangle]

are we talking damage all star or healing

[fleet anchor]

Damage for most of us

[oak sky]

[grim tangle]

easy then I'm only 50 elo away

[fleet anchor]

Nice 😄

[balmy condor]

would you instead like to discuss the intricacies of whether fae/venthyr are simbait because of uptime and fight timing requirements?

[fleet anchor]

You bring up some good points

[balmy condor]

or perhaps some pooling questions

[oak sky]

necro time

[fleet anchor]

This is why you should play Necrolord. 100% uptime baybee.

[balmy condor]

pooling into cooldowns not needed

because tier

also haste breakpoints

[fleet anchor]

Mages and Warriors always scale well in the last tier tho

[gusty mirage]

is there a way for me to snapshot my seething hatred for tokens with the tier set?

[bleak sky]

all this chess talk reminded me that my old rl wrote a chess engine and some stuff to benchmark other engines

brilliant guy, complete asshole

[gusty mirage]

ty

[bleak sky]

[agile geode]

[balmy condor]

@fleet anchor so here's what I'm thinking right, we hold vendetta until after dreamweaver flowers is done, because you would overcap energy during it anyway. But since that's rng and inconsistent, we play venthyr, and nadjia, that way we can time everything around fatal flaw

[fleet anchor]

I'm gonna need a flow-chart for that

[oak sky]

[spice spire]

BUT WAIT

[balmy condor]

I'll rewrite half the apl for 0.2% and send you a comprehensive list tomorrow morning

[spice spire]

What if we ran heirmir anyway because gemstone windows are consistently every minute

And crit = good

[agile geode]

[bleak sky]

MakeitCope, Copemaster

[spice spire]

Nah

Unless rework on leggo, NL dead

I’ve accepted fate

[brazen zodiac]

f

[fleet anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/older-meme-sir-let-it-be-darth-vader-gif-13420514

[spice spire]

“Folks, it looks like we’re in for a great game of football”

[balmy condor]

please keep memes out of #assassination. This is a serious channel with very important discussion topics. If you want to shitpost do so in your own measly pathetic server, this isn't the place. If any one of you is seen playing LOST ARK, you will be banned immediately. This is a WORLD OF WARCRAFT server, and I will not tolerate any TRAITORS in this discord. If you have any questions about this please consider shoving it up your ass, thank you for your understanding.

[spice spire]

please keep memes out of #assassination. This is a serious channel with very important discussion topics. If you want to shitpost do so in your own measly pathetic server, this isn't the place. If any one of you is seen playing LOST ARK, you will be banned immediately. This is a WORLD OF WARCRAFT server, and I will not tolerate any TRAITORS in this discord. If you have any questions about this please consider shoving it up your ass, thank you for your understanding.

[agile geode]

😂

[fleet anchor]

I do find it moderately funny

That some gameplay loops in WoW really haven't changed for like... 12 years

Like this is basically just the Assassination rotation

I didn't even change the purpose of any of the icons

lol

[balmy condor]

8.3 gameplay loop of gar gar gar CT vanish gar gar gar fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok fok

[agile geode]

Can you please big God of rogue ask ti blizzard to rework deathspike pls?

And wouldnt be Better with some bonespike inside?

[bleak sky]

yeah just @ him and ask for it

[agile geode]

[kindred rapids]

hey is it weird that obedience / ct is my highest simming single target?

[balmy condor]

kinda yeh

[fleet anchor]

Not that there's really anything wrong with the Feral/Assassination gameplay loop. They're pretty comfy at this point. But it's still funny 😄

[bleak sky]

link sim

[kindred rapids]

wonder if I'm doing something wrong https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mGNQex1LVtfJkniKuZtrKc

[bleak sky]

damn one step ahead

[kindred rapids]

heh

[balmy condor]

gonna chalk it up to weird najdia haste signet nonsense baloney town

[kindred rapids]

lol

[bleak sky]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aJNPePJSyAE81mWDd6QonP

damn truly cursed

[balmy condor]

the classic "2 soulbinds, 3 talent rows, 2 legendaries, 3 conduits, stats, gems, trinkets, and rings are all interchangeable cause they're all a wash and sometimes you get weird shit because it's all giga balanced"

well

giga balanced

or they're all worthless

and if they're all worthless, they don't really matter

you can pick which one

[spice spire]

@kindred rapids how much vers and mastery do you have, raw numbers

[kindred rapids]

haha, well I get to defy the meta and run ct single target I guess

let me check

[spice spire]

Ty papi.
You’re the third person with CT obedience simming higher I’ve seen and I have a thesis

[kindred rapids]

0 mastery

370 vers

[spice spire]

370 vers is more than expected

[kindred rapids]

well I have the bad helmet

I have vers on my neck because the kt neck is a downgrade for me 😦

need that crit

[balmy condor]

the correct term here is hypothesis

[oak sky]

ct> pb

[fleet anchor]

I mean we know there's a haste point where CT becomes better, because we reached it in Nyalotha. Just a matter of when 😛

[balmy condor]

[fleet anchor]

Nothing really surprising here

[balmy condor]

yeh

[oak sky]

@balmy condor i just talked to a guilds gm and feint wasnt mentioned

[bleak sky]

run full haste and capitalize on CT 9.2

[balmy condor]

was blindside mentioned?

[kindred rapids]

Max said only bad players feint

[oak sky]

NOTHING ROGUE RELATED WAS MENTIONED

!!!!!!!!!!

[balmy condor]

POG

wait

[spice spire]

No no, I have a thesis supporting a hypothesis

[balmy condor]

that's not good

[bleak sky]

are you in rain now

[oak sky]

no

lol

they donowalled me

[balmy condor]

[bleak sky]

f

[spice spire]

Also I’ve been up for 22 hours hope off smh

[oak sky]

some other guild hit me up tho and their gm seemed really chill

[balmy condor]

lets hear your thesis then

[oak sky]

idk if anythings happening

[bleak sky]

gl agreon

[oak sky]

but it wasnt a disaster

[bleak sky]

[spice spire]

My hypothesis is that shit mastery leads to CT gains

That’s it

They’re fairly close anyway

[balmy condor]

well

[oak sky]

literal 5 minute conversation that was more productive than the half hour i spent with invictsus

[balmy condor]

that's a shit hypothesis

[spice spire]

Damn

[balmy condor]

but you stumbled into it

[bleak sky]

you're a shit hypothesis

[balmy condor]

cause shit mastery = more haste

and more haste = ct

so

kinda still right

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

but mastery affects both, so you can just cancel it out from both sides of the equation

and it's the same thing

[fleet anchor]

Mastery buffs CT and Envenom and Poison Bomb equally so I don't think that's a factor

[balmy condor]

gotta be quicker than that koji

[spice spire]

Doing unethical sims rn

[oak sky]

all stats effect everything equally

[spice spire]

I thought our mastery was only poison damage

But capital P

[bleak sky]

1 vers = 1 crit = 1 haste = 1 mastery

[oak sky]

🅿️

[bleak sky]

pushin P?

[spice spire]

[oak sky]

pusha t

[fleet anchor]

CT = Haste buffs CP gain and CT DoT.
Envenom + PB = Haste buffs CP gain and not damage

[oak sky]

@bleak sky you ordered diet coke that was a joke right?

[bleak sky]

man this song TRASH

[fleet anchor]

CT actually increases its DPET via Haste while Envenom/PB don't

[balmy condor]

damn, living the legion dream

crit mastery nightstalker envenoms

[spice spire]

That makes sense in a way I never thought of koji

[oak sky]

coke rap

[balmy condor]

I think I just heard @limber lion cum

[spice spire]

[spice spire]

You good homie

[balmy condor]

nightstalker makes him cum instantly even when he's sleeping

it's a medical condition or something

[spice spire]

Pretty sure it’s the MA leggo that does it

[oak sky]

you think that makes him cum?

exactly

what quake said

[spice spire]

Just think that NS CT is part of the equation

[balmy condor]

my mans spent like 2 hours on nightstalker APL logic

with it being 4% behind

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

and he got it to like

3% behind

still unplayable

[spice spire]

Yeah but LBE logic homie

[balmy condor]

I'll kill you

[oak sky]

is it possible to like MA leggo but not MA talent

[balmy condor]

and then @marble hemlock

[spice spire]

Bro I think I’ve found a gain

Trust

[oak sky]

minalba do you like griselda

[bleak sky]

do not know them F

[balmy condor]

yes because having 90% crit chance and then missing both crits on BOTH mutilates is dumb and stupid

[oak sky]

benny the butcher westside gun and conway the machine

[fleet anchor]

But using the default profiles as an example

[oak sky]

oh i thought MA leggo was the same but 4s

[balmy condor]

MA is 100%

[oak sky]

they need to make MA talent MA leggo effect

[balmy condor]

not 50%

[oak sky]

its cringe

[balmy condor]

which is baffling to me

why they didn't make it 100%

[oak sky]

yeah they dumb

[bleak sky]

so we run MA + obedience next patch to have 100% crit garrets and ambushes yes? yes

[balmy condor]

you do you king

[fleet anchor]

But yeah around 2700 haste rating CT is about 1% ahead, vs the base profiles with ~700 haste rating where it's 2.1% behind

It's a plodding gain, but it catches up eventually

[spice spire]

So what you’re saying is…

CT scales

Memes aside, I Always figured it was some sort of GIGA haste needed. Didn’t realize it was quite that much

[fleet anchor]

Yes CT scales normally and Envenom doesn't 😄

[fleet anchor]

I was actually thinking about this the other night that probably the vendetta_nightstalker_condition needs to be expanded to include T28 4pc similar to the existing Exsang setup

[balmy condor]

yeh

seems reasonable

[fleet anchor]

Also since there's an Exsang-specific Vanish line some of that might be applicable

I just didn't spend much time on it yet since it's so bad atm

[marble hemlock]

wait why

you said it was a gain

so clearly time well spent

[balmy condor]

yeh except its still dogwater

[marble hemlock]

youre just high on crystalized soulshape dust

[fleet anchor]

Not really sure it’s mathematically possible for NS to beat Subterfuge without something major external changing the ratio of Rupture to Garrote damage. Or some other bigger hit added.

[limber lion]

I've tried simming using MFD at 35s pre-pull to get SnD up and running and to allow for a full 5CP Nightstalker Rupture in the beginning

and Nightstalker still loses everytime.

Subterfuge is goated, NS is bad

[limber lion]

Master Assassin is the true ingredient to a voluminous cream fest.

[exotic hare]

Whats a good reason to play sub over sin in raids?

[hollow dirge]

Dps😂

[exotic hare]

Sin is the highest st right

[balmy condor]

sub does more st

[stable pasture]

It's easier?

idk

[vestal wren]

subtlety is atm the highest st, but logs are less about that but more about who gets the most external buffs at this moment

[spice spire]

I knew it

[hollow river]

Having Sylvanas daggers. Even with 1 heroic dagger my sub and sin simmed the same

[late storm]

Hey everyone. Do you think there is any chance that necro assassin will be good next patch? And do anyone play assa in m+? Is it even possible when sub is so good for multi target? Thanks 🙂

[hollow dirge]

You can literally just forget about necro . Regarding m+, it’s easily playable and will do good dmg, but it’s limitations are pushing sub into only choice for very high keys

[hollow river]

Sin will probably be fine for m+ but not as good as sub. Won’t matter too much until you get to really high key levels though typically

Necro is a fun covenant especially for dungeons, but it’s not the best ST especially with double legendary

[bleak sky]

sin right now is fine in m+ but you do start feeling the shortcomings in higher keys

[late storm]

Damn, thats not what i wanted to hear 😄 i really like necro assassin. Yea i think assa is doing very well. But 2 buttons sub is doing really much better

[bleak sky]

if you wanna do like 25s it's fine

[hollow dirge]

It’s the best in terms of fun for assa, but they created the legendary that is not even the best aoe one, and it does nothing for it’s st. Major change to the necro legendary to be even considered.
Another major point is that it’s unplayable with other specs, so even if it was good for sin, it would still be third choice at best.

[late storm]

Oh, i cant do 25s, thats too hogh for me. Im a bit more casual player.

[bleak sky]

sin is fine then

[hollow river]

The legendary is the best aoe one

But you bring rogue for st/prio etc

[hollow dirge]

Sure, but the loses on st make it suck anyway.

[hollow river]

It’s also really good for outlaw dungeons

[hollow dirge]

Good, but not best. And for sub it’s terrible

[hollow river]

It’s the best in terms of overal dam

[hollow dirge]

It will be abandoned next tier if it stays as it is now

[hollow dirge]

Oh here we go😂

[hollow river]

You said aoe

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hollow dirge]

Hahahaha, yeah, you can make your pick at my clumsy word picking😁

[hollow river]

[hollow dirge]

I’d be happy to see changes to it’s legendary and move us away from rgb butterflies

[late storm]

Exactly. I really hope blizz will do something for the necro rogues.

[bleak sky]

you're likely playing venthyr in m+ still anyway

[hollow river]

Yeah

[hollow dirge]

Yeah, sub venthyr😂

[late storm]

But im not sure if this dream could come true 😄

[hollow river]

There’s a dev looking into the Deathspike bugs. Don’t think it’ll get buffed or reworked though

[bleak sky]

I'm playing sin still

[hollow river]

Al we can do is prayge for the bug fixes

[hollow dirge]

Who want’s to fuck with 73 tab’s on each pull, when you can just spam fok and bp and do more😂

[bleak sky]

yeah who the fuck wants to have fun

imagine that

[hollow dirge]

I’m just joking, hate sub m+

So fucking boring

But it’s just silly how unrewarding sin aoe is, considering the gameplay.
Always figured it would be cool to have high effort/high gain aoe spec in game

But best specs are just like, frenzy, starfall crap, millions

[hollow river]

Yeah it’s unfortunate but still really fun if you like the gameplay

[hollow dirge]

The gameplay I find the best in game, not just on rogue

And for that brief moment before sub aoe was buffed, life was good for sin m+😂

[bleak sky]

sin is a low target count / single target spec; it being clunky in aoe doesn't mean you get to do meaningful damage

[hollow river]

Should be great at everything

[late storm]

I do enjoy assa playstyle most of all specs. But most of time i have problem to be invited to m+ groups. Everyone just wants sub, monk and mage 😄

[bleak sky]

it could just be low io

[hollow river]

Yeah the meta slaves

[hollow dirge]

Yeah, people are mostly trying to make things as easy as possible. Which goes contrary to my belief of this game being too easy already to make it even easier😂

[hollow river]

But grinding big io helps

[bleak sky]

if you're doing like weekly 15s I don't think people are bothering to go on rio to check your spec

[hollow river]

Even in 21 pugs it’s cringe to meta slave

[hollow dirge]

Also, we need a petition to make crimson baseline

[late storm]

Yes i think it is.. as i said im not high keys player. But i have problem to get inv into 15 or even lower

[bleak sky]

what's your io looking like

I really don't think people are checking your spec for 15s or so

so if you're let's say 1900 and a 2000 rogue applies, they're just gonna take the 2000

[arctic walrus]

I’d check

And judge

[bleak sky]

but you're a degen

[hollow river]

I’ve seen people kick people out after summoning them to dungeon

For 15s

[bleak sky]

yikes

[hollow river]

Only happened to me like once

[late storm]

Rio is low, around 1400 😄 maybe its the problem. But u know... if im not invited to groups, my rio cant grow. Its the magic circle

[bleak sky]

you just run your own keys

until it's high enough

[hollow river]

You just have to grind +1 by +1. Also forming your own groups with your key helps a lot.

[late storm]

Yea i have to do it as you say

[hollow river]

Like Minalba said, higher io applicants are gonna get chosen over others. Once you grind up to 2000-2100 it’s pretty easy to get into just about any +15 of your choosing

[late storm]

Yea, i will try it this way. Good idea 🙂

[brazen zodiac]

hi gamers

[bleak sky]

morning vita

[brazen zodiac]

am very sleepy >.<

whats poppin

[bleak sky]

not wow, that's what's poppin

9.2 waiting room intensely

[brazen zodiac]

xd

yeah im bored

i wanna press ambush already

[bleak sky]

time to play m+ then

lots of ambush

[brazen zodiac]

oh yeah? i only ambush when i vanish in st tbh

or if there's less then 2 targets

ima make an egg mcmuffin u want one gamer?

[bleak sky]

yeah you get to cast like 10 ambush the whole dungeon

[brazen zodiac]

[bleak sky]

ye thanks

[brazen zodiac]

with steak too cuz im a hungry goblin

everyone gets an egg mcmuffin

[brazen zodiac]

based

[hollow river]

Intensely. LoL

[hollow river]

[mint seal]

since meta biased community is a thing, is assa in 9.2 getting even more ignored, since the other classes become somewhat crazy in m+? The 2p tier set gives us a little bump, but in comparison...

[brazen zodiac]

wh. what

[brazen zodiac]

u getting extra cheese on urs sir

[limber lion]

The legendary.

The talent can burn

[brazen zodiac]

morning cev

[limber lion]

Yo

[hollow river]

Only time will tell tbh

[hollow river]

pog

I think

[charred wraith]

imo sin with dusk in m+ kinda cool and somewhat takes on the same role as sub?

like maybe a bit less aoe but higher prio?

[bleak sky]

no, sub is still better

[hollow river]

Yeah idk about higher prio

The prio will be decent though hopefully

[glass tulip]

brand new whip just hopped in wbu

[charred wraith]

in my eyes vendetta + flag is more dmg over the course of the burst comapared to flag + tornado + spam

i might want to sim it tho then

[hollow river]

I think you underestimate the Eviscerate spam

[wind dune]

is it okay for one rogue spec to have it all? sub has sustain aoe, burst aoe, highest single target/burst and funnel. the literal only thing it doesn't have is Cleave but it gets given cleave for free in 9.2 with its tier set. What's the downside honestly?

For rogue specs ofcourse it's aoe is shit compared to other specs

[hollow river]

RNG tier set

[brazen zodiac]

smoking, thinking of ways to spice up my egg sandwich

[charred wraith]

im more refering to the initial burst comparison

[hollow river]

Sub isn’t gonna suddenly be great at cleave

It’s just getting a small bit of help

[charred wraith]

also as i see it, 2p contradicts a bit with funnel

[glass tulip]

salt, pepper, red pepper flakes are all you need

some roasted cherry tomatoes and goat/feta cheese perhaps

[spice spire]

You don’t have to tell me twice buddy, I already know the vibes

[brazen zodiac]

red pepper flakes? hm

on my sunnyside up eggs

sounds spicy

[hollow river]

For sin? It increases our bleed damage, still effects main target too idk. Or do you mean sub

[charred wraith]

no, for sub

[hollow river]

Yeah I mean sub doesn’t really need anymore funnel damage they hopefully know that

They don’t want a repeat of that one boss that was decimated by sub funnel back in the day

But also more combo points = more eviscerates

[vestal wren]

we do need more funnel damage

jokes aside, i think zul was more of a issue in design than rly subtlety being the bad actor

[rotund oak]

everything else than ''bad'' though 😄

[vestal wren]

one thing that is problematic is that subtlety did end up in a spot of being ignored after heavy nerfs

it did just hurt everyone as it did mean the strengh of the spec was more dependent on either assassination or outlaw being good

but blizz did a good job to keep assassination always in a top spot

[wind dune]

true. I did over exaggerate.

but still that seems to be it's only flaw right now is the cleave aspect, correct me if im wrong though.

[vestal wren]

to talk about 9.2 subtlety also gets s slight improvement on 2/3 target cleave from the tier set

still means its not great, but every bit counts

[hollow river]

[wind dune]

but i'm very biased since I think of m+ alot more than I do for raid. I just like assa but being told im always just gonna be a low cleave/prio spec only. I just wanna blast some packs too 😦

[vestal wren]

i don't think assassination is bad in m+

[limber dew]

@vestal wren what is the strongest m+ spec in 9.2 for rogues?

[vestal wren]

its just the dungeon design that gives subtlety the option to shine due to hp sponge enemies

[vestal wren]

i have no idea

the thing about 9.2 predictions is that there is a lot of missing information

tuning is very relevant in deciding what is or isn't good

from current point, i think subtlety is in the best position for m+

just simply because it has a higher baseline than assassination and as mentioned above, the dungeon design just fits rly well with its niche

[limber dew]

are there current PTR sims or logs anywhere?

[vestal wren]

sims for 9.2 are in the threads
assassinaiton #916546791472783371
subtlety #916284169057878037

there is also a link to assassination sims in the pins of this channel

[wind dune]

The way they keep assa tuned it will never really be a good M+ option it will always be "not bad". Baseline Ct or something to amp up its spinning plates.

but like you said that still doesn't help with the dungeon design. I cant argue it is alot better for funneling and that is and always was subs thing

[hollow river]

They are afraid of our bleeds decimating cleave/aoe same as affliction lock. Bleeds tuned low to control it

[limber dew]

is there a comparison to other classes anywhere? I cant see to find an overall class comparison sim list on the current PTR performances

[vestal wren]

there isn't rly

closest thing is the 9.2 kindred spreadsheet (link in #subtlety-faq or pinned in #wow-general)

[limber lion]

that's because comparing ptr numbers is dumb

and there's no point

when we literally get a new build every single week

classes and specs and tier sets and legendaries and covenants

all get nerfed/buffed all the time

[hollow river]

Comparing classes with sim is kinda

[limber lion]

simulationcraft will post a graph comparing the dps specs when the patch is released.

[hollow river]

[limber lion]

But with everyone's apl's all over the place, it's a bit iffy

it's not really a good comparison in any way ever

[hollow river]

Yeah

[grizzled jay]

Reminds me of people asking what Covenant is best in Alpha/Beta when they were reworked almost bi-weekly lol

[bleak sky]

none of the rogue specs really "BLAST" m+, it's just not what we do

sub has the best aoe but it's still ehhh

[wind dune]

Agreed

[junior rampart]

If our fok gives 1cp for each target irrespective of crit chance would be fun in aoe.

[wind dune]

Yea I feel like for having to talent into our aoe and it still doing on average 10-15k less than sub is just kinda pathetic? This could just be a bong cloud take but I truly think talenting into your only aoe is very outdated some other specs have this issue and imo they should just get it baseline and a new talent to compensate ( all specs with this issue). Feels awful especically when the other option on our bottom tier is poison bomb

[spice spire]

10-15k less?

[cloud bramble]

idk, I'm running +20s on sin and loving it. would you really want that 35k burst 2 or 3 times or look at that sweet 11k overall for the entire dungeon? for me yeah it sucks bursting for like 18k but is kinda sweet to the the total dps after it's over

[bleak sky]

10-15k less than sub

[wind dune]

with cds yea? lol. you can do like 25k with pot with sin and ive easily hit 40k+ on sub

im doing 21's and 22's myself I still play assa in m+ just it really lacks in comparison its not even up for debate

[spice spire]

On a pull, sure

[cloud bramble]

@wind dune do you ever compare the over all?

[bleak sky]

idk sin is fine

still feels fine in my keys

[upbeat needle]

the debate is literally

[bleak sky]

on some dungeons I'm starting to feel a lil slow/low on damage but that's life

[upbeat needle]

do you wanna mange a fuck ton of bleeds or mindlessly ss-bp spam

[cloud bramble]

@upbeat needle a fuck ton, all day 😋

[upbeat needle]

fuckkkkk that

I'll only play sin in TOP tbh

and I main sin in raid 😢 I just cba to manage a zillion bleeds mane

[spice spire]

Managing bleeds not that bad rbh.
But it’s a lot more work for less damage

[upbeat needle]

^

and that's the problem

[cloud bramble]

@upbeat needle I actually find it relaxing of all 3 specs for some reason

3 my bad

[upbeat needle]

TANK SPEC ROGUE?!

[spice spire]

It also makes kicks weird if you’re assigned one on opener

He meant feral

Which is just budget rogue

[upbeat needle]

ya feral is the store brand sin rogue

[spice spire]

The assassination you have at home

Indeed

[bleak sky]

how

[spice spire]

Triple garret brother

And I mean things that can’t be silenced ie. Goliath on spires

[upbeat needle]

triple garrote is so good in TOP tbh

[bleak sky]

I don't think there's a single mob pack that casts anything important before you triple garret them

[upbeat needle]

well its good everywhere but man

[bleak sky]

and the ones that do you can just silence with garrote

[spice spire]

I just listed one

[upbeat needle]

idk fort TOP silencing the ghosts in Lich wing is a good time

[bleak sky]

goliath doesn't cast before triple garrotes go out though

[cloud bramble]

main thing I don't like about sub, and maybe I'm not playing it the best I could be played, is having to pool shadow dance charges for up comming important fights, and dungeons when not alot of mobs can get pulled. if we could pull 20 mobs a pack, I'd love it

[spice spire]

It does on the first, you gotta hang back and wait on tank to grab

But that shouldn’t be assigned anyway

[bleak sky]

but point is

sin is fine

[spice spire]

Yeah

22s are chuckling territory

But To pull mister minalba numbers, you have to simply be built diffly

[bleak sky]

I suck big time

the Krên person on frostmourne deserves praise