it makes sense that defensives dont really matter in terms of dps
#assassination
strange python
stoic idol
you're welcome i guess
stoic idol
then
alpine garden
Are regular mythics a "loot once per week" situation or nah?
sonic spindle
ugh, I have no idea what to do. My sub parses are awful, I hate the way outlaw feels and I dunno if I can keep up in dps with sin.
main forge
Yes, "Mythic 0s" are a once per week
wait til patch 9.2 and hope for a better situtation?
alpine garden
Yes, "Mythic 0s" are a once per week
idk I was nuking a fury warr with full mythic 0 kit when Im at 177 ilevel just now
I mean anecdotally it means fuck all but it was amusing
unborn smelt
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
alpine garden
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
main forge
Mastery seems to be dropping on gear for me š¦
It's getting annoying because mastery looks nice because it gives a bigger number but is so not worth it
unborn smelt
ilvl 184 Wll-Placed Steel or ilvl 171 Lethal poisons?
spice spire
Simming it will be an easier way to tell
spark edge
!wa
calm dome
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
warm olive
did assa feel the same beginning of BFA? i rejoined season 4, so i cant judge, its really strange and something is totally off ...
vestal wren
assassintion gameplay is similar
balmy condor
I would say the gameplay is actually ābetterā than the start of bfa
ember rover
Hello Sins!
Don't forget, you are loved, you are wanted.
Remember that, and keep that into your hearts.
true ingot
Wanted to ride the bench, maybe. š¦
mortal scaffold
wth is sub
stuck tartan
it means sneaky bastards
the u is silent
kinda wondering if sin is worse than survival hunter
Cause all i see is MM and some bms
balmy condor
it is
stuck tartan
oh rip
dusk lodge
U guys think thereās no more tuning?
vestal wren
survivial has the issue of having a op spec that is also ranged
same with feral, feral is doing rly good
but why bring feral if you can bring a owl
stuck tartan
but with actual numbers
stuck tartan
we get those too
for not having swords or not teleporting behind their backs like nothing is personal, kid
wanton wagon
ok this might be a dumb question but is sepsis affected by mastery?
stuck tartan
I think that's a nope
wanton wagon
I meani figured that
balmy condor
no scaling from mastery on anything outside of the base spec
agile storm
hey guys on the ravenholdt guide, it says to pop potion after opening - what is potion rofl sorry i'm bad.
agile storm
ohh k
balmy condor
we use either spectral agility, or phantom fire
agile storm
thank you @balmy condor
noble gulch
does the damage boost provided by Zoldyck insignia include envenom damage?
balmy condor
no
noble gulch
thanks
brisk forge
Will Shiv be any use in aoe? S:
balmy condor
only for prio damage
brisk forge
okidoki
fleet whale
i was able to do layer 8 Torghast with Synod as a boss as sin
with garbage powers lol
steep obsidian
8 this week is like a 6 last week
verbal stirrup
ur prolly 200+ ilvl with MA
torghast isnt really that meaningful
id love to see sin preform in m+ /pvp
frail fossil
do u guys ever wake up wanting to play sin
and then remember 
you only realize something's worth when u loose it
quaint acorn
had a ~184 sin rogue in a +3 atonement i healed on my druid earlier. he ended up below the monk tank overall
frail fossil
yeah i had a sin rogue doing half of the dps of a vdh
fleet whale
every dungeon so far i've done as sin this week
frail fossil
i do appreciate all my sinners
fleet whale
i've been on top of the meters, the spec is still bad
stuck tartan
atleast i play with gf and friends 
fleet whale
but it does show you how much skill can do
quaint acorn
1.9 or 2k i think it was overall
fleet whale
sounds like a bad sin rogue
stuck tartan
im top on metters
fleet whale
cause i'm at 184 and every dungeon i've done i've been like 3.3k overall
normal olive
why play assa when you can just reroll to bonk shaman, press windfury totem and go afk
stuck tartan
but i dont trust my friend's dps
normal olive
quaint acorn
saddest part was when I mentioned I was happy to see a rare sin rogue and he offered to leave :/
stuck tartan
that's sad :(
storm quartz
If your concentrating on strictly mythic+ do want crit over haste on gear or still haste? I keep seeing crit as best secondary but then seeing haste as well
stuck tartan
ok.
tough lantern
I had a sin rogue in my group and played better than any of the Sub/outlaw rogues Iāve had so far.
balmy condor
breaking news, good sin rogue > awful sub rogue fotm reroller
stuck tartan
Sin's players are playing it because they like it, sub right now is full of "its just better spec"
frail fossil
i dont think so, like if they wanna play the better spec they would've switched to outlaw or play Unholy dk
but yeah ppl playing sin atm are usually dedicated players
with experience as sin rogue which make them able to perform well
mortal scaffold
in m+ i typically compete for 2nd place overall and occassionally i'll be first place for indiv fights
fleet whale
yeah, player skill is a very underrated attribute
it's like how in BFA most of the sub rogues who stuck with sub all through BFA were good players most of the time
frail fossil
HACHADINO REPRESENT
fleet whale
like my one ret pally friend who i raided with for years
would always perform really well even when ret was terrible lol
frail fossil
but yeah u could see some actually really high sub logs in nya by dudes
fleet whale
it's gonna be a while before we say any sin rogues in Mythic, I imagine the dedicated sin rogues that are left
are all in heroic guilds atm
proper basin
hey guys
normal olive
Hey guy
normal olive
swap
stuck tartan
swap
normal olive
higher ilvl in main hand
frail fossil
unholy sreenschot
proper basin
fml
normal olive
xD
proper basin
I always thought mh was the right one
dunno why
makes much more sense this way tho
proper sage
idk why i keep on seeing sin rogues in my keys xd
i've had like 3 or 4 in my keys now
none of them have been @balmy condor
normal olive
Just do it like me
de other side, jump down on the last boss as a sacrifice to the lootgod, deplete the key because of that and be the only one with loot
xD
stuck tartan
thanks torghast for letting me see envenom crits of 29k
only place im gonna see them
frail fossil
F
lament wyvern
2 questions
-
Sin would probably be fine for M+ under like 8-10 right? I know its substantially the worse right now, but is it inting or just sub-optimal?
-
For an M+ build is Necrolord really all that bad? Seems like a really cool ability with good synergy especially with Emeni Lead By Example. Does Kyrian scale well into AOE?
balmy condor
its inting in higher keys
in lower keys its fine
all of our covenants are fine
venthyr is the hardest to make work, but even then, is only slightly worse than optimal options
lament wyvern
aight figured it was one of those things where it only really matters for like top 10-15% of players
still gonna decide between kyrian and necro then but leaning necro
thanks!
oh and hows sin feel leveling 50-60? Is it really tough or just fine
fleet whale
for 50 to 60 it's fine
stuck tartan
If you go alone you kill things
if you go with others, they kill things before you can even get there
lament wyvern
haha ok, thanks folks
strange python
the question is how is your dmg looking on the logs?
and if people are gettin mad haha
there's a lot of salty boys in m+ rn
who lose their shit
main forge
Honestly with the ability to cheap shot with shadow dance..... sub is better in that respect with the trash abilities that you can just smash through
dps don't even matter if you can stun their hardest hitting abilities and do damage
strange python
it matters to the mad boys
people will scream at you and get everyone tilted lets be real
fleet whale
every single key i've done so far i've been top damage... though at the level i play, skill > spec most of the time
fleet whale
low levels so far, nothing higher than 5, only at 184 ilvl]
main forge
I easily got beat as Sin the first week of M0's, and even after gear, last two weeks as Sin, at least with the people I roll with... I am 3rd on damage consistently as Sin
strange python
nice having a group to roll with hels for sure
fleet whale
i mean i' beat an ele shammy who was like 7 ilvl above me as sin
main forge
That isn't exactly shocking
strange python
if you can pull 3-5 every m+ then you good
main forge
Yeah if you can put out 3k-5k dps you gravy
fleet whale
plusses compared to bfa
strange python
iev ever done in games haha
fleet whale
are a little tougher
fleet whale
though i must say
strange python
bfa was cakewalk
fleet whale
i kind of like that there are only 8 dungeons so far
violet wasp
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
strange python
this is like PoE hard nowo
fleet whale
8 quality dungeons > 10 dungeons where some may be lacking (Motherloade, Siege, TD)
strange python
last night i did a 7 spires
with tornadoes
during that aoe spam boss
we failed of course haha
strange python
nah was impossible
fleet whale
i kind of wish M+ was more rewarding though as it stands
like they really neutered the rewards from it
fleet whale
it's much easier to get gear through pvp
though i guess conquest is capped atm
now i personally don't mind this
lament wyvern
whats the reason for IV guide saying haste top for most stat prio, but bottom for m+?
fleet whale
but blizz really seems to want players to do all three areas of endgame (raids, pvp, M+)
fleet whale
@lament wyvern haste is great in ST because it speeds up bleed ticks, thus giving more energy
in aoe, energy really isn't a problem, and you want more crit to get more cps from fok
but tbf, i don't even see haste as the lowest stat in M+
it's still mastery as far as i'm concerned
lament wyvern
aiiight, sick
fleet whale
look for items with haste, crit, and verse, or some combo
some mastery is ok to have depending on what's available
lament wyvern
so its more like balance druid stat weights where its pretty fluid depending on DR?
rather than like survival where you just want as much goddamn haste as you can get
turbid cloud
have we come to a conclusion on sharp stones versus oils?
I keep reading and hearing conflicts
balmy condor
as long as you're using them, it doesn't really matter
some people sim higher with double stone
some higher with 1 oil
oblique kiln
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
strange python
i like the m+ difficulty, but at least reward us accordingly
fighting your ass off at the top % for 35 anima is crayy
i just hope they don't nuke everything and make it bfa easy before changing our rewards to reflect the difficulty
id be happy with melee pve buffs (since we are split from pvp now), 75 anima, and some gold
getting good gear should be a grind
but we're getting fucked in upper m+
deff shouldn't nerf all teh good range cuz we need the dps, just need more melee dmg to catch up
fleet whale
also tbf
bfa season one M+ was BY FAR the toughest BFA season
for a host of reasons
calm dome
Whispyr are you here my friend ?
calm dome
My team and I just cleared hte raid in normal 10/10 , and 1/10 heroic . One run , right now
I did all the raid as Sin
Just wanna share with you my proudness š
calm dome
There is the log for you
if you wan comment
please
Rogue Assasin 10/10 Normal ... 1/10 Heroc
Sin is not dead my friends !!!
balmy condor
its kinda dead tho
balmy condor
yeah these looks pretty solid
you're missing some sepsis casts though
but I guess the boss died right after
so probably fein
calm dome
Oo i didnt notice about the Sepsis
balmy condor
yeah like sun king is a 7 minute fight on there
and you cast 4 sepsis
which should be pull, 1:30, 3, 4:30, 6
so missing one in there somewhere
quaint solstice
those logs look alto better than mine. i've been trying to figure out what i've been doing wrong and just thought, sin is dead. go outlaw. and now im confused
strange python
people's most hated dungeon is nothing compared to even the easiest dungeon on sl
everyone hated shrines which had like one cakewalk mechanic haha, run to the ball with the squid on your head
and TD was p bad but again had like 2 mechanics
balmy condor
Overall am I decent enough ?
yep, nothing major wrong
calm dome
Great, thanks tho .
Now focusing on getting more haste
faint harness
Td and shrine made me not want to play m+. Awful dungeons
calm dome
Hahahaha
strange python
i have a question
if i just started building my character, should i work more off my sims or off generalised stat priority
because from my knowledge, sim is based off ur current character or maybe im wrong
if u understand what im saying
alright
ill trust my sim then
cursive cipher
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
@balmy condor one more thing, how often should i resim my character
alright sounds good
unborn smelt
I saw some burst high crits (15-20k) possible with sin in pvp? how?
rotund oak
Hey ma dudes,sicne ive got memory of past sins heroic thinking of going sin for shriekwing and huntsman.Is it fine to go with master assasin+dashing scroundel or should i go subterfuge?
pearl surge
Outlaw/Sub seem to be on even ground from the lists I have seen so far
And you can theoretically get legendaries for 2 specs if you do BiS
3 if you push it and lose some extras
@rotund oak
versed mica
There a reason why Dashing Scoundrel is now better than Zoldyck? I swear Zoldyck was the best a few weeks ago
surreal kayak
hi guys! i havent played in a long time and i wanted to ask if its alright to play assa in pve, or is it somewhat mandatory to play sub? asking cause everybody in game says sub is the best by far, but i love assa š¦
versed mica
Are you a mythic raider?
surreal kayak
no, im very noobish, have played some wow in legion and done only some normal raids and low mythic dng
old snow
all im gonna say, if you try assa in pve you will most likely quickly change your mind and play sub
its a bit depressing when you see that you do no dmg
versed mica
Sin is like the worst dps spec in the game, but it's not unusable
If you are a casual player, play what you want
old snow
however, in arenas and bgs its doable, but not so much for pve
versed mica
I do plenty of damage in sin, just not as much as the other rogue specs
old snow
not nearly as much
versed mica
it's like a 300 dps difference now, before buff it was a lot worse
wym by dots not staying on bosses?
surreal kayak
dmg over time like bleed etc
yeah thats what i noticed that my biggest source of dmg was melee lol
versed mica
But yeah, my advice is to try all the specs, play the one you like the best
People get all upset about their spec not being "optimal" or "competitive", but WoW content isn't hard
It only matters in mythic raiding
surreal kayak
ill prob try switching to sub if its rly worth it, dont wanna be kicked out of mythics or not accepted due to my spec :p
ppl are edgy even now about it tho
versed mica
I would say at least have an offspec for Mythics, because sin aoe damage really is garbage
surreal kayak
like i was looking for a chill guild lately and some of them didnt want to accept me unless i switched to sub
old snow
honestly i find it understandable
imo difference is big enaugh for me to consider playing sin in pve just inting
versed mica
It's understandable, but for lower content it literally doesn't matter
surreal kayak
anyways, thanks for answering and explaining, ill prob try to switch, just unsure what talent i should run on the lvl 30 line
in sub
old snow
for pve stratagem
old snow
for aoe and dungeons marked
surreal kayak
alrighty, thanks
knotty heron
Shower thoughts: if a night fae assassin uses the Lethal Poisons conduit, Septic Shock, and Zoldyck Insignia.. would that make Master Poisoner a more viable talent?
Really?!
Does Master Poisoner and Mastery affect Sepsis?
Are you serious š
Why is Sepsis so bad
Also my overall goal in this thinking was because I dont like the play of blindside
Thatās fair. I just get cranky when I see chain harvest and condemn doing tons of damage and sepsis is like... 1% of my damage
I see I see
robust pine
is with dashing scoundrel poison critical strikes always give CP or only when buff from envenov is active?
knotty heron
I love how it performs in torghast with the spread
Really? (Ive been running as subtlety)
Iām honestly still struggling with torghast, but its been mostly because of horrible power rng
Iām 188 atm. Still need to be very very careful and if i dont get good powers big oof.
Does sin talents/mastery affect red ink?
random fossil
what legendary feels better to play? not bothered about max dps, just whatever is smoother in terms of energy and cp generation
stuck tartan
Dashing just cause of the energy regen
knotty heron
Dashing is preferred over Zoldyck,?
Okay. Thanks for answering so many questions! I am just hoping Iāll get to play sin in raid eventually
stuck tartan
I got Zoldyck but because I'm not raiding right now tbh
I dont have that much time to
knotty heron
I figure š
But i can dream
I am enjoying sub but it just doesnt feel quite right.
frigid kestrel
I actually thought about playing Law last night. Made me feel dirty so I took a shower. When is poor Blizz gonna bring my sin back?
desert swallow
Where is it most effective for devs to hear us? Twitter? In game feedback? Anyone knows?
candid quarry
isnt toxic blade in the game anymore?
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=245388/toxic-blade#:~:text=Stab your enemy with a,Awards 1 combo point.
stoic needle
It's shiv now
sonic pollen
Yeah shiv is only 20% now
Then Again toxic blade was a talent, shiv is now baseline
stuck tartan
But with conduits you make it stronger
for me it can go to 31% and I only have a 158 conduit for it
sonic pollen
Also shiv has an utility side aswell (depending on your Non-lethal poison)
Removes enrages with numb, and a slower effect with crippling
stoic needle
It's awful that we have to use one of our dps cooldowns for utility
stuck tartan
atleast its just 25s cd
wheat vigil
At the risk of repeating an oft asked question, has the 5% buff seemed to make much difference? Or is sin still meh overall
stuck tartan
still meh
wheat vigil
Too bad
spare nimbus
Envenom and poison bomb don't benefit from mastery, right?
Interesting. Thank you.
And the master poisoner talent only affects deadly poison?
old snow
anyone know if master poisener affects mind-numbing poison pvp talent, or does mind-numbing poison not count as weapon poison
past bramble
didnt even know envenom benefits from mastery
It does it states in the description that Envenom deals Nature damage
The Mastery tooltip is kinda ambiguous, it should state nature damage instead of poison damage
stuck tartan
but the mastery says poisons, not nature damage
yeah, that's why I didnt know
I just guessed instant poisons and rupture/garrot
past bramble
Yeah, considering that the Rogue's nature damage is strictly poison, it should state ''nature and bleeds'' instead ''poison and bleeds'' damage
past bramble
yeah, that's why I didnt know
Same lol, I used to think that it's only related to the poisons
What's unaffected? Trinkets with a nature effect?
dark arrow
So after this last buff to assassination its still weak, with outlaw and sub leagues ahead in dps. Do you guys think they will buff it again soon? i'm a highly competitive person so naturally I want to play the strongest rogue spec I possibly can to do the most damage possible, but I love assassination above the other specs. When making legendary in shadowlands outlaw and sub it seems the ring is the best while assassination the pants are. I could just roll outlaw/sub and make the ring but if assassination gets buffed i'd get frustrated I didn't stay with it and get the pants. So what is everyone elses thoughts?
stoic needle
abandon all hope, ye who enter here
summer marsh
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
mortal scaffold
how do you know @balmy condor
fleet whale
if any more buffs are coming or changes
it will be in 9.1
on average sin is better than fury and frost mage
for this tier anyway, changes could come in 9.1
mortal scaffold
dark arrow
I hope changes happen. Like i'd like to see it be the way it used to be. Sub is more pvp focused, combat (outlaw now) was perfect for trash or or boss encounters with multi targets, and sin was always best for single target boss fights. Each had their specific purpose/role. With Sin being outperformed in every aspect its lost its niche.
stuck tartan
I dont mind sub and sin performing kinda the same in some scenarios, I just want the option to go sin without losing 30% of my damage
dark arrow
yeah I could agree with that @stuck tartan
@balmy condor shows how long its been since i've really played the game lmfao
stuck tartan
its good now but because it has burst
dark arrow
last time I hit the game hard was warlords of dreanor and played from vanilla before that. took a long break to focus on other games lol
stuck tartan
I saw some subs on legion
both early and late
but sin had more pressure
with zoldyck was crazy
royal lantern
early legion was outlaw
NH was sin
tomb was sub
antorus was sub/sin
@balmy condor
shy dust
dark arrow
another thing thats been bugging me is going around doing world quests and dailies and I see everyone killing shit easily solo. They can solo elites take on multiple mobs etc. playing sin I can't hope to defeat any elite solo, and even fighting a single mob i'm at 50% hp. if I have to fight 2-3 things at once I have to blow all cd or die. if I get engaged by 2 or more things when cds were used and i'm not at 100% hp i'm dead. even 1 thing can be dicey
royal lantern
eh it was like
at the start everyone played sub cus of tos
sin became somewhat better with gear
+that DfA was near unplayable on argus
limber dagger
Is sin not good for m+?
drifting imp
limber dagger
i pretty much only play m+ but i wanna play sin š¦
drifting imp
yeah it's the same for me but, if you wanna do m+ get some friends to go keys with you and don't look at the dps meter
drifting cloud
its unplayable in m+
you might aswell be playing a tank, more useful and same dmg
drifting imp
when i search for a group i'm always scared to get the feral treatment
limber dagger
you might aswell be playing a tank, more useful and same dmg
that sounds like a bit of an exaggartion
drifting cloud
its not
drifting imp
aoe is rly bad as sin
they took everything what made it good form bfa and just gave us snd
limber dagger
how are we looking ST whise?
drifting imp
5% 
limber dagger
5%?
drifting imp
yeah
limber dagger
what do we need to be vailable for m+?
drifting imp
i'll keep playing sin hope they will buff it again someday
limber dagger
if sin is that bad, how are people putting it in the same tier as ele shamans š¤
figured
some stupid icy-veins article
stoic needle
limber dagger
wellcome to icy-veins
drifting imp
dude yeah i feel that self sustain with my 20% healing every 30 seconds
quasi ledge
Gotta do DPS for Leeching š
drifting imp
lmao
limber dagger
Gotta do DPS for Leeching š
lol
stuck tartan
BM hunter without pet I suppose
limber dagger
so i suppose its all outlaw again for m+?
for AoE?
hm okay, not sure if i wanna spam FoK > finisher all day tho š
real bay
limber dagger
sub aoe its literally 2 buttons
yep thats my problem with it lol
stoic needle
the ST rotation isnt much better lol
stuck tartan
shadowstrike eviscerate
pure ingot
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
deft vault
Whispyr you play sub right?
royal lantern
@balmy condor i like how that text says that rogue has very high self sustain
when rogue is well known for having the lowest sustain out of all classes togheter with mage lel
deft vault
@balmy condorThe legendary finality. Does it only increase the next finisher of the same spell or your next finisher ? Like if i evis it empoyers my next evis or my next finisher?
so rupture increase rupture
stone epoch
don't have to sustain your health if you just vanish and run I guess
deft vault
is there a timer or the buff or its forever?
deft vault
how likely are we to see buffs to assas come tuesday?
royal lantern
the lack of sustain was 1 of the 2reasons why rogue was so bad for torghast lol
deft vault
deft vault
i still havent crafted a legendary cuz i was hoping theyd buff assas and i could craft then for asa
rank 4 finality tuesday it is then
nah wasnt waiting a lego buff just a general assas buff so a lego is worth to craft for assas
strange python
I hope we see another sin buff (a real one)
it would rock in some dungeons
and some fights in raid
manic igloo
strange python
Devs: you have 2 viable specs, be happy
ornate epoch
worn cloak
i wish lightless didn't break cc
quiet junco
Doomblade feeling solid? I went zol but finin to craft doom
Yea I was really pondering if it would be worth instead of upgrading zol to rank 4
brazen pelican
Does on Mutilate from Doomblade proc Venomous Wounds?
er does the bleed I mean
bah ok...so much for that idea :p Thanks
hollow bridge
do you need to go haste crit if building dashing?
hollow bridge
okay cool
shrewd night
Have you attempted to sim yourself
Welp, if you simmed yourself, you would know the basic stuff instead of having to ask 
open ingot
is it now assassination better other spec?
sub or outlaw?
i have issue with aoe on sub š¦
shrewd night
I did tell you where you could find the answer to your own question 
If you want someones opinion instead of what makes your character better, that more than fine with me
proper sage
whispyr gets his answers from the same place koffing is telling you to go
he's just helping you being a little more independent
quiet junco
Doomblade shoulders vs hands, price difference? Shoulders are way cheaper on server
mortal scaffold
pls blizz just a crumb š„ŗ š
gleaming eagle
can you exchange honor for conquest?
stoic needle
no, but you upgrade conquest gear with honor
gleaming eagle
ah
robust pine
pure skill
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371799616687046658/790235123827474492/da2bddb1c226f031.PNG
don't look at third column
balmy condor
yo true
stoic needle
pure skill
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/371799616687046658/790235123...
now let's see the dps numbers
robust pine
oh no, i lost my place since yesterday
balmy condor
2400 
robust pine
even when sin wasn't complete shit I wasn't very good dps
robust pine
and it's shriekwing, you can't attack it fourth part of the fight or something like that
drifting imp
That shadow with the green number has as much dps as you I know that feel. It's the same for me in my raid group
robust pine
i have purple only because there are not so many of sins. If there were like at least 10k sins, than i would 55-60 i think...
drifting imp
Yeah same
strange python
why is all the haste gear locked behind hours and hours of m+ grind
can't believe they fckd us out of a pvp ring too haha
vestal wren
why is all the haste gear locked behind hours and hours of m+ grind
thats their current gearing strategy
m+ is due to its higher reward the best way to obtain gear outside of pvp
you wouldn't run the raid if it wasn't for weapons/trinkets
strange python
haha took me like 25 or so hours for plaguefall
now im on the same shit for deathgod trinket
err ring*
drifting imp
M+ doesn't even feel rewarding anymore. Like you need to do so many keys just to drop anything. I think I dropped only one piece of gear in the 8 keys I already did this week
strange python
haha that litlte sliver of anima
feels like about 30 runs per upgrade now
which is whatever, but the dungeons are hard as balls and we are geting no gold for repairs/consumables
i'm hemorrhaging gold trying to get this gear
strange python
takes about an hour per zone for about 100 of each herb
still a time sink
i'm an alchemist
but like not evryone can do it
and all the bots are driving down the price on alchemist stuff
main forge
its better off to just do whatever herb sells the most
err sells the highest
like widowbloom for me is 100-150g.... most of the rest are 40-80g
strange python
ya hard to compete with the farming bots on the widow
main forge
get in a party and try a different server
strange python
sooo much work just to do the content
main forge
but even shadestone sells for quite a bit over the cost of the herbs if you just buy them too
strange python
not exactly ideal and highlights the bigger problem, there is zero haste gear outside of m+
so you have to both farm forever and work against hte bots
just to get a baseline setup
for one for the classes
strange python
not as primary stat
best we got is 122 vers + like 60 haste
my pvp daggers don't even have haste
womp wahh
but im gonna keep grinding cuz i want it haha just gonna complain about it every now and then
probs at like 80+ hours tho
still need 2 rings, 2 daggers
probs about 25 hours for each ring
not including the farming time for consumables/repairs
hmm actually maybe its time for an alt rofl
blizz has to have some kind of fix in mind
sterile jackal
balmy condor
unholy and ww seem to be doing pretty good
feral is actually pretty good too, as is outlaw
balmy condor
I mean, no reason to bring anything, something always better
balmy condor
and you can swap to outlaw
drifting cosmos
Afk till 9.1 is the plan
dim yacht
i know its nothing insane, but im getting 10s timed fairly easily as a sin rogue
there is still hope for us
im #21 sin rogue in world for IO kek, theres dozens of us
DOZENS OF US
balmy condor
seli timed an 18
dim yacht
as sin?
dim yacht
pretty impressive if it was, but prob outlaw
i know 10s arent 'good' im just saying theres hope
balmy condor
yea
vestal wren
you can bring whatever you like in 10
we did it with frost mage and fury and had no issue
vestal wren
subtlety is also quite bad in aoe if its not sustained high target
and in cleave in general
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz
vestal wren
it beats sub in 2, 3 and 5 target sustained cleave in my sims
lament dove
sub is fairly average... it's the new assa lol
vestal wren
the problem is that m+ is esp. with tyraincal more about st output
i think sub is very good in patchworky fights
the problem for subtlety rly is the lack of strong aoe and cleave
lament dove
and I just can't figure out outlaw, I suck so bad with it^^
vestal wren
give it some time, both sub and outlaw take a bit to get used too
esp. the high apm phases on outlaw
cosmic prism
if you have a good WA set on outlaw it boils down to hitting the flashing buttons
primal terrace
Yo boys, thinking of switching back to assa cuz I really want to play it although sub is the go-to, is it survivable or are you not getting any raid/m+ invites? š
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
carmine flare
Is sub really the go-to
balmy condor
Outlaw is the go to
Sub is the go to in single target, and the second go to everywhere else
And sin is the abandoned dog on the side of the road in an ASPCA commercial
strange python
why would sin catch up in m+?
I think sin will catch up if we 1) get a significant buff or 2) get reworked or 3) literally everything else gets a nerf.
but since there are 2 viable rogue specs I would not be willing to bet on sin getting a buff.
balmy condor
I spent basically all day thinking aboht sin reworks lmao
worn cloak
reworked haha, they had all the time in beta and did nothing
rogue got so little iteration overall
balmy condor
Took all of bfa for them to give sub some aoe
strange python
yeah like I said, I wouldn't wait for sin to get a buff / rework any time soon.
Rogue has working specs, so people will just play those.
strange python
I'm playing sin and really enjoy it, but sucks to be a burden to my guild when raiding / doing high mythics
balmy condor
And then it gets nerfed during mythic week, replaced with the tier after, and weāre back to square one
Iām kinda tired of needing borrowed power to be viable
strange python
yeah :x it's not a power players choice.
jovial verge
Yeah, I'm with you on that but when the alternative is being the dog on a side of an ASPCA commercial, borrowed powers doesn't look so bad xd
balmy condor
Eh
Sub for a tier or two isnāt all that bad imo
I would prefer sin
But Iām chillin
jovial verge
Yeah, I'm actually enjoying giving outlaw a go
I just wish it wasn't because sin sucked
strange python
I've been thinking about starting a disc priest just to remember how it feels when you are appreciated š then again most of my attempts of playing something besides a rogue have been really short lived.
balmy condor
You havenāt felt appreciated until the priest stops PIāing himself
strange python
I've been thinking about farming a dashing scoundrel as a second lege. Got Zoldyck. But since the dps is shit either way could run dashing, as it would give a bit more energy to spam mut :--D
does anyone run with the scoundrel? Is the energy regen noticeablE?
strange python
farm the soul ash
robust pine
i wanted to make it this week
but accidently bought 225 boots instead of 210
so i am waiting next week
strange python
š I guess it's better in the long run.
zenith flume
hey guys, is there any meaningful change in assa in pvp? is it getting better or still not an option?
pliant rose
Hard. At least Sub has its burst, even outlaw has at least substain damage. Assa works okish against casters but itās still a pain in comparison to almost all other melees except survival and enhancer or fury. Which at least have a gameplay š
strange python
Assa had some wombo envenom crit -build, that might work in the low end pvp.
Not sure if it's viable atm tho.
stuck tartan
They nerfed it too so...
fathom plume
Hello guys, I am new here.
What are the best stats, in order, for Mythic + Dungeon? According to Icy Vein itās Crit>Vers>Mast>Hate. I hear other thing on YouTube and now I am not sure which one is the best or not. Could you help me with that?
spice spire
Thatās the old priority. Iirc itās haste > Vers >= Crit > Mast
fathom plume
All right, sound good. Thanks
rocky ibex
whats best stat for st?
fathom plume
And for PVP, what are the stat order?
rocky ibex
vers mastery
strange python
For pvp sub is miles ahead tho
fathom plume
Yeah, maybe I should try Sub.
random fossil
is zoldyck best on legs or feet?
stuck tartan
Legs
random fossil
tyty
unborn smelt
Are 1.5k system shock crits good or more naaah
gleaming eagle
zoldyk is pretty good
i was hitting 1.5k crit on one of my poison
in pvp
was fun to watch
obsidian raptor
Yo guys whatās ass like atm? Only been playing sub
gusty mirage
@obsidian raptor undertuned compared to the other two even after the buff, but still an okay spec if youāre not trying for super competitive stuff
obsidian raptor
Fairs think Iāll stick to sub until it get another nerf then ahah
quiet junco
Doomblade shoulders or hands?
plain onyx
Pepperoni pizza with cheddar cheese.
spice spire
Doomblade shoulders or hands?
Shoulders
quiet junco
Why are hands more expensive? Mats?
spice spire
Shoulders have higher stat cap right?
thin gate
guys 1 question, how does the necrolord covenant exactly work?
i use it and it ticks until the target dies right?
lament wyvern
yup, a dot with no duration
and every time you use the ability, you get combo points equal to how many spikes you have out
lament wyvern
as i understand it, all the rogue covenant abilities are pretty damn close
thin gate
im playing assa just for fun rn progressing as uhdk and wanted to play high mastery with crit legendary for fun
lament wyvern
taking it will not hinder you more than going sin fwiw
and seems to be strong in M+ and the like, efficient combo points for spreading rupture, and spread dot for packs
but especially when you have Emeni and Lead By Example, the agi buff uptime is pretty good
thin gate
aight, tyvm for ur help
lament wyvern
someone else can correct me if any of that's wrong but yeah they're all within like 5-10% i believe
gusty mirage
@lament wyvern the covenant abilities? Yeah they're all within like 5% afaik
lament wyvern
thanks for confirming!
main forge
Totally if rogue was my alt, I would pick the covenant story or abilities I wanted to play with...
primal zinc
!bis
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyrs Bis list: http://tiny.cc/76r5tz
lament wyvern
i know haste is king in ST, and crit in AOE. If i want best of both worlds, is it bad to just gear those 2 over vers/mastery? Or should i dedicate hard one way or the other
sleek otter
if I remember correctly for Mythic Plus stat prio is Crit Vers and for raids its Haste Crit
The list helps settle things such as DR and tries to provide optimal gear
lament wyvern
thanks!
deft vault
Crit was good in bfa in aoe cuz of echoing blade now it doesnt do much for assas
lament wyvern
this was from IV i was referencing
`For raiding the secondary stat priority for Assassination Rogue is as follows:
Haste;
Critical Strike;
Versatility;
Mastery.
For Mythic+ your secondary stat priority changes quite drastically:
Critical Strike;
Versatility;
Mastery;
Haste.`
balmy condor
stuck tartan
Haste last for mythic+?
versed mica
Makes sense to me, multidot makes haste irrelevant bc of high energy gain, and bc dots don't hit as hard anymore vers slightly better than mast, so I must be thinking wrong somewhere
balmy condor
crit doesn't do much for us anymore without eb is the thing
lament wyvern
that's the old stat weights
xD
balmy condor
so its like haste > crit = vers >> mast
spice spire
Haste is too low currently to be irrelevant. It isnāt until 3 or so targets that energy gain starts to feel āhigh enough to be fineā and if you donāt have enough haste to stack that quickly, it would just be shit right?
balmy condor
its usually 4-5 dots
spice spire
O I c. Well at least the logic was there, the numbers were just off 
balmy condor
melee's are also still our highest damage in keys outside of like sub garrotes
lament wyvern
thanks for clarifying @balmy condor !
lost sentinel
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
**Shadowlands: ** Haste > Versatility => Critical Strike => Mastery
lost sentinel
I remember mastery became good at one point in BFA
at least my personal sims
I remember mastery became good at one point in BFA
versed mica
so haste is most important simply because white damage is still too powerful, got it
balmy condor
well that and we have nothing that really scales off of the crit anymore
vocal cloud
is blizz doing any more tuning for next reset or nah?
past bramble
Why does poison bomb feel so weak now? Is the damage nerfed?
past bramble
its just as weak as it was all of bfa
I skipped BFA and I was Mythic raiding as Sin in Legion, I'm loving Shadowlands thus far, but it seems to me that assa's issues haven't been addressed at all
past bramble
Unfortunate
balmy condor
definitely fortunate
balmy condor
poison bomb doing 40% of our damage was not good
balmy condor
do i craft ring or brace
ring
past bramble
I just did a few Mythic dungeons and my left hand started hurting, good old Assassination
thin gate
tyvm
past bramble
definitely fortunate
Well you're right, but it's still a casino mechanic. You either top charts when it procs, and it's average when you don't
past bramble
Yeah
past bramble
Agreed, I've never liked Poison Bomb as a spell anyhow.
A proper AoE rotation would be nice, as Sub got Dark Powder
fleet whale
i have more of an issue with sub getting an ability like black powder rather than sin lacking a baseline aoe
of course, i guess at this point it would be nice if sin got one
echo cargo
CT baseline, poison bomb buff, and then another last row talent would be great xd
vestal wren
sin is straight out better in aoe and cleave
was it even without the 5% buff
sub rly suffers from bad aoe capacity, bp does only help on very high sustained aoe
blizz could have keeped bp on higher scaling (they nerfed it later on beta due to assumptions of it beeing to strong)
all assassination needs is a additional 5% buff
and it would see a lot more play
(ignoring world first because they don't want anything that does not bring a raid buff or is a dk)
past bramble
I still don't get why CT is not a baseline spell
marble elm
Donāt know how anyone saw legion poison bomb and thought yeah this is ok
dense cedar
i liked that it was invisible to non-rogues
veery good design
baffling that it wasn't just visible to all or only visible to self
but visible to only yourself and other rogues
like its meant to be a lil rogue secret
marble elm
I really liked when people brought 3 vdh and 2 bdk to portal keeper and fished for poison bomb on stacked adds
Very fun
echo cargo
same
fleet whale
i love kingsbane
i think Kingsbane is popular as a whole in this discord, though some of the CF's don't seem to like it that much
balmy condor
@fleet whale I actually thought up my own redesign for sin out of boredom, doesn't include kingsbane, but has an ode to it I guess. It's a bit of a read, cause I'm a bitch like that, but you can skim it if you want: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qGsZILbtH5OKH-s8ZpNcFIJTW0hOffjy7UrP4KaNj4w/edit?usp=sharing
stuck tartan
"(looking at you venom rush)" this tbh
sin has so many boring talents for some reason
echo cargo
<@!237295380537147402> I actually thought up my own redesign for sin out of bore...
yo this is dope
vocal umbra
echo cargo
@balmy condor you should post this on reddit or tweet it at some blizz nerds
stoic needle
would you care if I made an in-game feedback post that was just a link to that document lol
balmy condor
go for it idc
stone epoch
I do kinda miss the poison build/bleed build distinction. Seems like a pretty solid redesign
void canyon
do any of you guys solo like layer 7 or 8 torghast if so how
hollow barn
<@!237295380537147402> I actually thought up my own redesign for sin out of bore...
I drooled over this.
balmy condor
do any of you guys solo like layer 7 or 8 torghast if so how
leeching poison, CT, kite, pray for red ink
void canyon
ah alright i was wishing that there was more than just hoping for red ink
thanks tho
main forge
I'll be honest I switched over to sub and am not having the problems I had as assassination.... could be a little gear I have gotten but its only a couple ilvls. The burst on Sub every 30s is much better than Sin can provide, and I love sin... I really do.
as far as torghast is concerned
void canyon
man i really dont want to swap but its looking like i really should
main forge
Like as Asssassination, I keep hoping for the maw rat stamina and the +% hp buffs just to stay alive... Sin's cooldowns are just too long.
Like you can pop off and hit 5k as sub with the right alignment
Sin? you gotta blow vendetta to see that
btw they should have a vendetta power that hits 5 targets nearby... that would make it better.
void canyon
eh i still dont think it'll really fix anything
proven ferry
Or buff alacrity š
I played AOE build today with CT, Marked for death and elaborate planning as my talents. I was doing more damage than hunter and Mage in 50% of the pulls> I hope I didn't miss anything š
With 5 stack of alacrity my haste was around 27%...felt decent
balmy condor
did you beat them on overall?
balmy condor
we're talking dungeons right
balmy condor
yikes
proven ferry
I don't know why I doubted myself
balmy condor
well, I would doubt too
proven ferry
š
proven ferry
I know...it feels strange...but that was m +3 I guess so doesn't count.
need alacrity to add 3 more stack for assassination š
proven ferry
I agree
I think our rotation is more punishing in SL. We have to open with garrote and hit all the mobs otherwise we its difficult to top the charts
If tank pulls more only then we get chance to top dps š
balmy condor
I actually think if the tank pulls more, sin suffers more
outside of 3 garrotes from subt
proven ferry
Yea, but energy regen is more once the mobs die
proven ferry
If target dies with bleeds you get more energy per tick
proven ferry
Yea
balmy condor
rupture sniping isn't really worth anything
and is actually a loss if you're doing it incorrectly
proven ferry
Yes, if you mess up then you suffer a lot
I will switch to outlaw
It is easier š
arctic cove
sup guys, ive been OOTL for a week, any news regarding sin_
main forge
Yes. Lots of news.
Like we are still in the circular file.
And the path before us does not seem better....
arctic cove
ok so still trash sadge
main forge
but if you want to get a top 100 parse... NOW IS THE TIME
proven ferry
main forge
because you only have to do better than the other 389 sin rogues... and most of them are probably crying into their keyboards mid fight
arctic cove
the first thing i read in my guild chat when i got online was "sin rogues good now???"
so i got kinda excited but nvm then
proven ferry
lol
arctic cove
that guy be smokin
gray fjord
I believe that is what the kids call 'jebaited'
proven ferry
Time to switch guilds
arctic cove
haha
balmy condor
I believe that is what the kids call 'jebaited'
gray fjord
main forge
I need the name and server of this person. I would like to mail him an ingame nasty gram... politely worded of course
I'll give him my full 5%
proven ferry
lol
balmy condor
alliance sin rogue on small server vibes
dense cedar
smol server
main forge
I am over on sargeras and I got number 4 >_>
dense cedar
pro
main forge
Makes me want to push my sin a little harder lol
dense cedar
I wonder if there's anyone out there rocking a Nightslayer mog
like some kinda
idiot
main forge
... whats wrong with nightslayer
dense cedar
old n crummy
bloodfang kinda stays nice even for being an older set
Nightslayer doesn't
main forge
but its classic... like a christmas story movie
dense cedar
lmao
main forge
Shit those BC armor sets and wrath ones weren't always hawt to trot either
deft vault
lets pray for buffs tomorrow boys
main forge
Maybe next christmas boys
balmy condor
nah I'm pulling you down to reality :P
main forge
Daddy can't afford it this year... COVID-19 hit us right in the pickpocket
balmy condor
if you want to dream, read the dissertation I wrote on what I want to see sin become
deft vault
wheres that
main forge
link?
main forge
... I got to scroll through the plebs and the crying?
main forge
found it
guess it might be easier to do a link back or whatever but i don't know how discord does that
deft vault
Does assas really need a huge rework tho?
I feel like giving us CT and SS baseline would be huge to the spec
main forge
It has been FoK to combo points... Envenom or Rupture
deft vault
id just rework the very last row
give ct baseline
swap the FoK one to something like echoing blade
and one that boost CT
So youd have PoisonBomb/Echoing/CT Boost
main forge
I say drop the whole AOE talent tree and give us more interesting choices
They are quite flavorless in the current patch cycle
and the current direction the game is going with less AOE being necessary
thick estuary
is there actual talks of changing Assassination or this just "wouldn't it be cool?" not meme'ing just got in
main forge
this is whispyr's xmas wish list for Sin...
thick estuary
oh i see
balmy condor
the document is my wish list
we're just having fun with "wouldn't be cool if"
hypotheticals
thick estuary
i want them to get rid of slice and dice
main forge
but I think we all can agree the current status of us not changing at all isn't good for us
I love SnD, but I said it was a poor choice back when it dropped
thick estuary
having 3 buffs/debuffs to manage is annoying af
main forge
especially when they aren't drastically increasing damage of other abilities
if they buffed your other abilities by 10% each... they'd be neat, but they don't
thick estuary
yeah, the energy regen is basically the only reason we want it
thick estuary
getting rid of subterfuge/garrote boost would be nice. i love clipping the gcd on a garrote and it being crap dps vs boosted garrote dps
main forge
Like we are the poison spec... and poisons have been the same... since BC? besides numbers changing...
thick estuary
i don't think they have the imagination to give us new poisons. Red Ink anima power would be cool
main forge
Red Ink would make a nice talent on that AOE talent tree...
thick estuary
anyway, imma stop complaining