a stun that can fuck up pulls by a fair bit bc some mobs still has DR
#assassination
winter moss
nimble tartan
im just doing it LIVE BABY
rigid mango
Yeah sure
winter moss
i mean the slow is worth nuthin
rigid mango
But assuming you're not a 
since ur in the MDI
You'd use it correctly
and gain a lot
tribal marlin
Most tank actually are face taking crazy amount of mobs or just manage theimself pretty easily without having a real need for Crippling poison
rigid mango
tbh just gouge is nuts.
If we could get internal bleeding + iron wire
Our utility would compete
But outlaws utility atm, is just better
in general
winter moss
what makes sin utility worse is that kidney requires cp
rigid mango
That's what I'm saying
tribal marlin
Garrote 6sec of silence still is a good utility especially as a night elf
rigid mango
if kidney dealt dmg
with internal bleeding
and it didn't feel horrible to press that button
It'd be good
winter moss
but in general i see people who are just playing wrong as outlaw
rigid mango
But iron wire is just too much better
winter moss
keep busting bte on mobs
tribal marlin
@nimble tartan you get it by completing objectives in nazjatar while fighting with your follower
nimble tartan
how do i get a follower
tribal marlin
that where Gouge comes in the picture
nimble tartan
its over im fallin behind
winter moss
rigid mango
Like, I think a lot of times the DR doesn't matter
winter moss
they just dont
rigid mango
the times it does, it sucks though
tribal marlin
no worrie you will find your follower soon enough while the first visiting Nazjatar @nimble tartan
nimble tartan
ty mikihisa you have eased my mind 😃
winter moss
i mean i really like playing as sinlord
rigid mango
Same
winter moss
but yeah utility and bursting wise outlaw is better now
but id like to see a change in 8.2
rigid mango
I mean
It's sorta only the utility tbh
Assa deals more dmg
and the damage you pump in a lot of situations is "more valuable"
winter moss
the longer the fight goes yeah
winter moss
but in burst cases like reaping where the mobs only have 150k
tribal marlin
Just bring 1 assa and 1 outlaw in the same dung
grim canopy
can't wit for reaping to go away
worldly iron
fair
tribal marlin
1 assa for sustain aoe and garrotes, 1 outlaw for burst aoe and utility, and 1 subtely for Prio target. 
We have the MDI comp
winter moss
well if you keep reaping alive long enough you can kill your tank w/ it
and chained into boss or next pack where you gotta do stuff like opener or w/e
winter moss
true
tribal marlin
because we like foking
grim canopy
2 outlaws and a ww monk
rigid mango
MDI meta
grim canopy
rip
strange python
When the tank on some mdi shit and pulls reap and a huge pack into the boss and you're just bashing that fok key 
tribal marlin
fuck ww monk let's take bm Monk and 3 rogue
grim canopy
well now that prot is nerfed
winter moss
@strange python worthless dmg imo
grim canopy
stole subs jobs?
winter moss
ye
tribal marlin
tbh Outlaw Aoe into ST was huge in 8.1
strange python
But then my overall looks slightly worse..
winter moss
crit ofc
rigid mango
Ofc.
tribal marlin
110k 
Sub'll pump 404k
rigid mango
404 spec missing
We'll see how essences balance out for sin
If outlaw get perma 2 buff build to be as insane as it sounds
winter moss
im sectec sub for dungeons is not bad but just not worth it
rigid mango
They might just be a go to for the forseeable future
winter moss
if?
rigid mango
I mean
We aint got sims yet
They might just end up taking a dps essence
because it's just better
same for sin
tribal marlin
400k crit evisc is something no joke.
rigid mango
Trust me
tribal marlin
don't need Shiruken combo for that number
rigid mango
I say this with like
True intention
No one fucking cares about sub.
So how about we forget the spec until 9.0
winter moss
agreed
winter moss
unless there comes in a major rework to the spec
grim canopy
hey so that 50k honor essence, is that account wide honor?
rigid mango
grim canopy
if not RIP ALTS
tribal marlin
rigid mango
Idk
inc we just end up going flame instead of anything interesting
and just get the argus power button
fun gameplay imo
rigid mango
Just the like lightforge nuke
tribal marlin
ye it was on argus
rigid mango
It's like the current lightforge draenei passive I think?
winter moss
on argus you got the orbs floating around
winter moss
ah
tribal marlin
3 thing you have to choose : big war marchine destroying everythng, stealth or light beam
winter moss
rigid mango
Yeah
That thing
We're just gonna get a purge button bec the other things suck
Pumped.
don't have sims, can't see numbers, who knows what's best
tribal marlin
You are talking about Purification Protocol essence right ?
rigid mango
Aye
and the other like 5 press button get dps don't do shit
essences
Hopefully we get to see sims soon enough.
winter moss
well
tribal marlin
I don't care imma play MonkaSub NS/DS + BotE and alt+f4 when I did not crit inside BotE
winter moss
no to get your hopes up
but sims will prolly start tomorrow
and will be useless 4 days after
bc balancing
rigid mango
Probs
winter moss
tribal marlin
share bro
winter moss
winter moss
worldly iron
were you allowed to tell us that they told you? 
worldly iron
that's usually what telling someone in confidence entails 
winter moss
which makes it even more sketchy
rigid mango
I mean honestly
winter moss
rigid mango
Maybe that sounds like I'm good at this
Little do they know, I just don't have a life
tribal marlin
rigid mango
regardless, it's info that's getting released with the sims ofc
winter moss
i mean i theoretically know how to play a good sin rogue
just aint good at it
innit
winter moss
rigid mango
I'm just mr purple log do strat dude
winter moss
same
rigid mango
winter moss
taken red crystal on opu since day one
tribal marlin
tbh with only 1 essence, lucid dream is the only one that make me output >27k on ptr PG
winter moss
winter moss
just lost my motivation during uldir and bod, now i gotta work my ass up again
86 overall in myth
rigid mango
I'm on smth similar
I've been hopping guilds like a madman tho
And seems like I'm doing another one next week 
winter moss
well i was the only rogue that got frozen 3timex in a single jaina encounter
worldly iron
straying further and further from #assassination 
rigid mango
casual hc -> noob mythic guild to grab logs -> 8/9 mythic to grab more logs -> ronkles guild to grab CE
Every guild I've been in so far has exploded
solid nova
winter moss
wow
rigid mango
winter moss
we just said
rigid mango
I knew it was coming
rigid mango
Shoulda just left it at that
winter moss
winter moss
vision got nerfed to the ground
winter moss
yeah
rigid mango
Thing is that minor sucks ass though
winter moss
tru
rigid mango
Unsyncing vend and vanish 🤢
winter moss
well
winter moss
convergence of fates?
rigid mango
I know which one is best 
austere ruin
quick question on MA opener, do you guys pop TB before vanish or after?
tribal marlin
Vision still buged on ptr ...
rigid mango
Bugged as in how
tribal marlin
hopefully this essence is gated to Mecagon so there are 2 more weeks for a fix
vestal wren
what essencess are easy/fast to get to lvl 3?
winter moss
prolly the m+ one
austere ruin
mines Garrote - mut - rupture - vandetta - mut - vanish - TB
tribal marlin
BotE requiert 50k honnor I guess, not easy but straight doable
rigid mango
I think it doesn't do vend > muti tho
vestal wren
ye vision is super buggy atm :/
rigid mango
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
rigid mango
tribal marlin
Basically once vision proc 1 time, it prevent all subsequent Vendetta cast (regular cast) to apply NP until you log off
tribal marlin
removing the essence doesn't even fix the thing, need to relog
vestal wren
rigid mango
Zoinks
Sounds like some giga bugs right there
irregardless I doubt it'll be that good
Atleast in the beginning
winter moss
i mean it's easy to get
vestal wren
i think its unavoidable that there are bugs
rigid mango
I don't see us wanting to play without a minor
winter moss
just takes long as shit
tribal marlin
I can't tell anything about Vision since it's bugged for quite a few weeks now, I was not able to properly test it.
rigid mango
but it's stil only a what
winter moss
well if 0 > every essence we are now the frost dks of our spec
rigid mango
7 sec NP per proc right?
tribal marlin
yes
vestal wren
the np proc is buggy with vision iirc
rigid mango
Then I doubt it'll be worth it
Seeing as how I don't think that amount of damage will solely carry it
With that minor being as bad as it is
tribal marlin
at last news Vision occurence of Vendetta apply 7sec NP but the bug make it untestable
vestal wren
things might be fixed till raid opens
tribal marlin
Minor Vision is still a CD reduction on vendetta
tribal marlin
it's sad, but not necessarly bad, need to sim it to be sure
rigid mango
I think it cuts off 18 sec off of it
tribal marlin
24 I guess
rigid mango
either you wait 18 sec and make it a litearallt dead essence
or you use vend on cd and lose dps from them being desynced
tribal marlin
no I don't think it's the good option, better option would be to just use Vanish on any Vision instance of vendetta
tribal marlin
Only minor of Vision still increase Vendetta (and thus NP once fixed) uptime from 16% to 20%
wait n see I guess
tribal marlin
xD I do agree with you
especially since it Vision is trolling you all day
procing 3 vendetta in a raw but doesn't refresh NP
Procing 6sec vendetta when you just ended you TB and have 0 ressources
shitshow like you say
hearty junco
any idea what essences we should pursue? I know a bis list is not really established
rigid mango
Lucid, blood
hearty junco
Yeah just need some hot tips so i can read up abit what i need to do to get them
vestal wren
the quest essence is also good
narrow orchid
What essence do u get from that m+ 15
vestal wren
main problem for the essences is that you only have 1 slot and you wont get rank 3 very fast so it will often come down to what is fast to optain rather then whats bis
vestal wren
most essences are rather boring
untold current
According to Ion, you are not playing the game right
opaque tree
Hi
hearty junco
So blood of the enemy is obtained through PVP?
vestal wren
yes
bronze kelp
I need some mental preparation that I maybe need to play pvp to get something I need for m+ 😢
solid nova
Just pve and win
marble hemlock
just play focusing iris
i dont think that blood is going to be much better, if at all better, than iris
vestal wren
probably comes down to essence lvl
bronze kelp
does anyone know how many focused life anima we get from weekly m+ cache ?
bleak spoke
@marble hemlock yeah it seems like maybe that’s just the best way to deal with say the void emissary is just 3 focusing irises and then it’s easy to burst it down
rigid mango
Bop it
wooden flax
Anyone want to see exsanguinate talent changes so bleed build can be viable? The long cool down over TB is a real killer
rigid mango
I'd rather have the more thought inducing and interesting way of playing TB
wooden flax
That could an option too
I just real like the idea of a bleed build, but it sadly won’t fly
Spec variety issue
rigid mango
It sorta works with 3 ss, but it's just worse on any mid-long fight
cobalt leaf
any advice for the best ST sin build atm Chars names Shaunshroud-kazzak, swapping mains wanna make sure its maximized best i can . cheers
tropic ocean
build as in talents or ?
wooden flax
Pined guide. Poison build is go to
cobalt leaf
yer sorry should have been more clear there
wooden flax
@rigid mango I had 3 ss one point in time during gearing and I agree... good opener... but then your DPS falls of without sub empowered garrote
cobalt leaf
Level 15: Elaborate Planning
Level 30: Subterfuge
Level 45: Vigor
Level 60: Optional
Level 75: Optional
Level 90: Toxic Blade
Level 100: Poison Bomb
is what i use sims around 22k for 405 ilvl
tropic ocean
thats the std build
tropic ocean
now for st with current gearpieces you want 3x dd 1 np 1 bbi 1 ttk
(might change with new gear piece combos in 8.2)
wooden flax
The key is to have NP and DD
icy ember
ye i ended up with a spymaster so i just roll with it
tropic ocean
depending on 3rd row traits might change with 8.2 anyway
misty plover
that isnt rly the bis setup 😄 you play those pieces cause they got OP
cobalt leaf
ah i see that my problem then only have bis head atm
wooden flax
I have 3 DD, 1 NP, and I have 1 TC, 1 Blightborne infusion... which procs pretty often
cobalt leaf
lacking chest and shoulders stuck with SS atm
wooden flax
@cobalt leaf SS isn’t bad. It’s just loses value when you are not using vanish or garrote from stealth
DD is the op trait that give sin high sustained ST damage
icy ember
i'm not sure when you wouldn't use vanish INSTANTLY when you are using SS
tropic ocean
you never use vanish instantly ;P
cobalt leaf
yer i use it after every pact in m+ and on boss on cd
icy ember
well ASAP
cobalt leaf
works well
tropic ocean
you use it to get another set of empowered garrote
wooden flax
^
cobalt leaf
helps with nice aoe to
wooden flax
I didn’t play sin in m+ this season
wooden flax
Same
tropic ocean
and depending on key height I usually find myself more using vanish as a defensive than an offensive
cobalt leaf
yer done that a few times some tanks dont half leave you in the shit 😄
tropic ocean
or for restealthing if chainpulls happen
icy ember
well vanish is for sure a defensive when you are playing outlaw
cobalt leaf
yer noticed chain pulls can cripple a sins dmg on trash massively
tropic ocean
it is as sin as well
wooden flax
LMAO indeed
icy ember
eh sort of
tropic ocean
living > anything
icy ember
it is LESS advantageous to use it as sin
wooden flax
Dead DPS = no dps
tropic ocean
and even if you use it as defensive, e.g. powder shot u can just garrote anyway so
its not that much of a loss
split furnace
Guys I’m a new rogue itemlevel 350, atm for being a good raider in 8.2 I should focus on assassination or outlaw? I see that assassination is a little easier in rotation compared to outlaw but its weaker in mythic plus , am I wrong ?
icy ember
you should probably go outlaw if you are a new rogue
wooden flax
I real hope the new affix can change the m+ composition
icy ember
as asn is harder to gear properly for what you are doing
tropic ocean
doubt the new affix will change anything for rogue
assa outlaw will be pretty much the same
wooden flax
Rouge is there for utility
fringe epoch
outlaw is the easier spec imo, and easiest to gear
split furnace
@icy ember because of azerite and trinket ?
wooden flax
Cause stat weights
icy ember
just because outlaw is all 1 set of azerite and you are good, IE, all deadshot, 1 wits... while sin is a mixture of AoE and ST dps
tropic ocean
mainly cuz azerite ;P
wooden flax
Oh in that sense
tropic ocean
with assa you need a lot of pieces
tropic ocean
while with outlaw basically with 1 wits you are good to go for m+ and then just get 1 brigands and deadshots
icy ember
so is mine 
tropic ocean
for assa theres like very limited pieces you will need to perform good
tropic ocean
think I have 3 shoulders 3 helmets 2 chests atm
split furnace
Thank you all guys for your patience , outlaw then ^^ sub is really not an option atm?
tropic ocean
if you enjoy it, play it
icy ember
no 
is ded
tropic ocean
if you don't raid at higher tier it won't matter
wooden flax
That is true
But it is very said to see my 407 aff lock to more damage on champs than my 414 sub (I wanted to try it again, and regretted that)
wooden flax
Sub is just so under-tunes right now
It is more punishing for movement down time than a caster...
icy ember
ya it was terrible when i returned to rogue at the start of BFA
split furnace
Sub at the end of legion was really really performing
solid nova
-> #wow-general
prisma beacon
is enchanting still the best profession for new raid?
sinful badger
So I’m fully geared for outlaw going into 8.2 ... should I be switching to sin for m+ (18-23 range) and mythic raiding
scenic torrent
Do we have simmed list of essences?
vast forum
pins are your friend
scenic torrent
thank you, forgot :/
peak musk
can't find essences in the pins 😮
solid nova
Becuase they arent there, they will be available when sims are out
peak musk
ik :)
but "pins are you friend" ^^
solid nova
vestal wren
you can try your luck with ptr=1, tho not everything will work
scenic torrent
Is there some survival guide or whatever to do 8.2 not the official from blizz though. Something in detail. Came back week ago, just leveled toon. I guess its not important for me in that case, but just in case it was.
solid nova
Yeah wowhead has one
#wow-general theres a re-cap post with a survival guide 😄
Shit
#wowheadnews even
barren quest
do you think engeneer helm will be bis at 8.2 ?
solid nova
3rd one up, its "8.2 catch up"
scenic torrent
U mean the one from Teliesin?
royal lantern
i doubt BiS, but will be quite good again until you get a better option @barren quest
cobalt pelican
it has like no m+ traits for assasination
if it's the same as 8.1 which i'm pretty sure it is
it has like 1ttk and bombs but bombs suck
sinful badger
So any insight on sin vs. outlaw?
compact haven
yo boys, why is the ilvl of the offhand so hard useless? 370 to 415 is just an increase of 0,1% dps 😦
solid nova
Show sim
compact haven
checked it on raidbots with the gearcompare/droptimizer
spice surge
Or if you had a socket on your 370
Like, offhand dps is mostly irrelevant, all you're looking for is stats
compact haven
ye but i dont get it, why the offhand dps is irrelevant, if i think about that muti uses both weapons
spice surge
Because it doesnt use offhand dps to calculate muti damage
It uses mainhand/2 for the offhand strike
compact haven
hmmm
spice surge
Yeah thats the reasoning behind it
shy axle
which essence do you find most interesting so far ?
scenic torrent
Hmm, alright so that is big no. Like melee in m+. But in raid it is just cluster. Too used to range I guess. Back to my mage but he sucks xD
royal lantern
i hope they change SOMETHING about Blood....cus if not the farm will break me....
50k honor...srsly blizzard?
royal lantern
i dont talk about the legendary skin @urban junco
spice surge
So thats like 80 bgs or something instead of like 110 
royal lantern
50k is for the 25%more crit dmg part, without it the essence is pretty bad
grim canopy
How many epic BGs is that
urban junco
Too many
grim canopy
FFFFF
urban junco
XD
royal lantern
WAY too many for a essence that will probably be good for most dps specs
like i said, idk wath they thought
grim canopy
They should have put it behind warfronts
thin lagoon
whys blizzard forcing us to do the equivalent of a worthless side quest
pvp isnt something you do
urban junco
^
spice surge
Its undoubtebly gonna be the one of (if not the) best essence for assa m+
Well now it is, they want people to play their game
Because people complain there isnt enough to do outside of raids and m+
balmy cradle
how will you guys do it? queue bgs while questing new zones or just queue bgs and cry?
royal lantern
tbh, it does the difference for me right now
thin lagoon
meh
grim canopy
but people don't do the wow pvp for a reason
royal lantern
after i saw that 50k i was like ''nope, enough shit for me, fk that''
thin lagoon
ill do it anyways
urban junco
I'm pretty sure the guild will just do rated BG's to get it
grim canopy
they should put it behind something more people would do
royal lantern
you cant do it in rated
urban junco
reallllly
royal lantern
if im right
grim canopy
lmao
spice surge
Rated bgs should work
fierce quarry
Less qq moar pewpew
urban junco
wtf
royal lantern
how2ratedbg
spice surge
and also, rbg isnt out in like 2 weeks
fierce quarry
^wrong
urban junco
Lol
but thats for 
amber trench
Do pvp islands farm two essences and ap at the same time
urban junco
Eeeeehhh
fleet whale
maybe blizz will buff the focusing Iris essence, and we could use that as an alternative for M+
grim canopy
how much honor do pvp islands give?
thin osprey
Not worth it
royal lantern
win 1 for tier1 blood and thats it
gentle path
which essence is gonna be good for first major slot on tuesday? lucid dreams?
spice surge
Some people said they were gonna buff honor gains slightly, but idk we'll have to see
royal lantern
nobody can really tell now 🤷
spice surge
@gentle path Prob just the standard fire one, probably not enough time to get anything useful
polar cape
Naah if anything they gonna gut the blood for w/e reason
shy axle
maybe only active in pvp combat or such
spice surge
Its already gutted compared to previous ptr versions
The minor is essentially useless
royal lantern
wich is weird, because crits are allready way less powerfull in pvp
polar cape
Crit dmg only in pvp would be yikes
royal lantern
why is 1 of the pvp essences a crit based one then...?
spice surge
Crits are traditionally very strong in pvp, even when its nerfed now the burst is what you want for pvp
It makes sense
and idk, i'd rather do bgs than spam wqs
drifting cloud
the honor gains are in the patch notes Eleem
spice surge
Is it? I dont see anything about honor
drifting cloud
First Win of the Day Bonus now rewards 100% more AP.
2v2 Arena now rewards 240 AP (was 120 AP).
3v3 Arena now rewards 300 AP (was 150 AP).
Unrated Battlegrounds now rewards 300 AP (was 150 AP).
Epic Battlegrounds now rewards 600 AP (was 300 AP).
Rated Battlegrounds now rewards 1050 AP (was 525 AP).
Against Overwhelming Odds now rewards 2000 AP (was 1000 AP).
drifting cloud
spice surge
😄
drifting cloud
literally me
grim canopy
lol
nimble tartan
Yo where my pro pet battlers at I need to know what’s the juice for these new world quest missions
civic palm
Probably not in #assassination , check #subtlety they don't have a spec to play anymore, they must be doing something.
nimble tartan
Haha cmon
civic palm
SUB is fine, either way. > _>
acoustic atlas
lol thats savage
unkempt karma
quick questions regardin traits in m+
Whats the optimal to use? Is SS still the way to go?
distant lava
any mix of EB / SS / TTK
vast forum
Ss/eb for max dps
distant lava
ss being the least desirable in more than one copy I'd say
vast forum
Ttk if you know how to use it
unkempt karma
If you have SS + EBs.. do we spec for which one? MA or SF?
unkempt karma
Raid wise we go MA if not wrong?
vast forum
Depends on traits
vast forum
And on fight
Exsg was good in uldir, not anymore
You can run subterfuge and tb with 3 ss on fights like jadefire or cabal
royal lantern
SS in raids is a bit of a gimmick right now
unkempt karma
hmm
royal lantern
works on some fights, overall MA and DD stacking is the ''too-go''thing right now
(for raids)
lethal heart
exsang was nice in uldir because of extra haste from array
vast forum
That's just cuz there's no aoe on last 3 bosses of bod
vast forum
Yea, 750 free haste was nice
lethal heart
and dd pieces were very hard to come by
unless you rnged
through weekly box
and NP wasnt a thing yet back then
vast forum
Also, only 2 trait slots
lethal heart
lots of factors made exsang really good 😄
unkempt karma
helmet SS /DD/NP nad Convenant..
shoulders SS/TTK/EB or DD/EB/SS
Chest DD/NP/SS
lethal heart
but even then
unkempt karma
I loved exang
proper wing
Is it ok to run no SS in m+ at any point?
vast forum
Depends what you mean by ok
lethal heart
but its not preferable
because having 1 ss is just for opener purposes
for combo points
vast forum
You can go without any ss and still do decent keys
But it's always better to have ss than not
proper wing
Well, rn I dusted off my Uldir rogue and I'm sitting on 3x EB and I could turn that into 1x SS 2x EB, but not sure if it's worth it or not. same ilvl.
royal lantern
honestly,it doesnt really make a difference cus the new season starts in a couple of weeks
vast forum
Also, just get azerite with 2 traits each and you can have both ss and eb
royal lantern
use something too get used too sin in m+, then we need new azerite stuff anyway, and maybe the m+ meta traits change cus of essences 🤷
proper wing
Oh yeah, already got 2traits azerites, just none of em has both EB and SS
vast forum
See how well that went
tropic ocean
better than 99% of ppl talking here 🤷
royal lantern
wasnt that an accident...?
tropic ocean
idk was it
vast forum
East cup #3 literally had 7 teams
You could enter just by doing the time trial dungeons
unkempt karma
DD or NP for m+ ?
tropic ocean
np
unkempt karma
What about if I got the opposite on the second ring, NS or Covenant?
tropic ocean
np and dd don't give you anything on multitarget
so tc will be the overall better choice for m+
tropic ocean
yes
the majority of your time in a keystone consists of fighting multiple enemies so you want to buff your multitarget as much as possible
which is mainly achieved by stacking eb/ss
or mixing it with ttk if you need priority dmg
unkempt karma
420 with DD /NP and second ring with FT and SS
tropic ocean
and what alternative do you have?
tropic ocean
yeah I mean alternative in general
eb ss 400 will mostly outperform dd np 420
in m+
unkempt karma
Then its time to farm some azerite haha ^^
tropic ocean
I used eb ss 405 helmet for like 14 or 15 ids before I got 420
unkempt karma
running helmet now 420 SS and Covenant.
Shoulders 420 SS and EB
And chest will be NP or DD with SS
until I get switch around to a lower item level one with better traits
unkempt karma
Yeah no stress, been outlaw for a while and I'm just testing around with assassination.
tropic ocean
iirc you need 2 weeks azerite to buy max ilvl random piece
unkempt karma
Thanks for the tips! Hight appreciated 😄
tropic ocean
so with new random max ilvl costing 47k titan residuum
after 1 week
u should be able to buy all 420s u need
unkempt karma
sounds like a plan ;D
grim canopy
bis m+ trait setup for 8.2 stills ame?
civic palm
🔮
grim canopy
cause no more reaping
mystic talon
apply critical thinking
grim canopy
you had a month to test
civic palm
Yeah, there should be a balance pass before Mythic Raid.
royal lantern
and stuff will change when the raid is out
civic palm
Trying to be a fucking magician and diving the future isn't what Rogues, or Humans, do.
tiny arrow
They're still changing beguiling
grim canopy
ok
harsh sphinx
essences got tuned a lot on the PTR if i'm not mistaken
tiny arrow
Prob gonna be done tuning the first couple of weeks aswell, if it's too hard/easy
grim canopy
im mostly just curious if 3x eb wil still be top in m+
royal lantern
probably yes unless they do some heavy nerfs too it
but like i said: nobody knows, changes are comming
minor spade
Are there essences to be looking out for for M+ atm? Or is it a "wait until season starts" kind sitch?
civic palm
Bingo.
vocal kelp
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
fleet whale
The essences that sin use are going to be the ones that give it the most dps
deft shore
Can't argue with that.
urban junco
Afenar's group best group. Don't @ me.
vagrant leaf
Does anyone know if bodyguards in 8.2 stealth when you do?
vapid turtle
They do on the PTR
vagrant leaf
Great! I was thinking about switching to rogue and didn’t know if that was an issue. Thanks
icy ember
it would be truly 
of bliz to not include stealth w/the bodyguard 
reef peak
So, any updates on BiS essence?
civic palm
(o A o;)
nimble tartan
I can’t wait for another tier of sin 😃
tough whale
Should we start a tally board on people asking about essences without reading the pins?
rough agate
While I do agree it can get old, the pins are sometimes slow and there is a generalized guide on which could be good to go for up on wowhead
Which i think is all most people would like to know
tough whale
People don't look for generalized when it comes to essences tbh, Theyre only gonna look for what the sims say are best, and will ask until (and after) TC releases happen
vocal kelp
at what duration left is the pandemic threshold for rupture and garrote?
rough agate
Yeah maybe
civic palm
Garrote = 5.4 seconds
Rupture = 6-7 seconds
vocal kelp
thx
civic palm
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
tough whale
90% of WAs you get will also highlight or indicate when the window is live
civic palm
To some level of annoyance, for sure.
tough whale
Yea, depends on how people like their UI or weakauras.
reef peak
Wowhead released essences guides
grim canopy
im hyped to use blood in aoe
sly flume
the one from azshara mythic
true ingot
I know the best essences aren't figured out yet but what do people intend to bumrush tomorrow?
civic palm
Everything.
fair blaze
The best for us seems lucid dream, because it's only one which pair with our CDs and the one with vendetta is currently bugged
spice surge
well just because it lines up doesnt mean its good
fair blaze
But it's better than other
spice surge
Its basicly a thistle tea after vendetta is over
And 1 or 2 globals extra during vendetta if you dont have BL during it
fair blaze
Maybe essences with dps will be better, but we need to wait for theorycrafters
with pure damage*
spice surge
The minor of lucid is pretty insane, i doubt we're not using that
civic palm
Yeah I don't see us not using the Minor at least.
spice surge
But the major just seems bad. In my current setup im only missing 3 or 4 globals during vendetta (due to no energy)
civic palm
inb4 Day1 patch 
solar rose
55 is obtainable before the new raid with the nerf, I'd worry more so about trying to get that than higher rank essences
civic palm
Yeppers.
tough whale
Before we see tuning, and without season 3 / raid / mechagon out, i'd be surprised to see Blood of the enemy not near the top; but what a disgusting grind that'll be.
(for major)
strange python
what do you guys think you're gonna try unlock first as far as essences go
blood of the enemy looks decent
tough whale
the circle of conversation repeats lmao
spice surge
Unless lucid minor has been nerfed since early ptr probably that
tough whale
Lucid minor is grossly good, its major is mediocre
strange python
minor*
spice surge
Well yeah, but no minor at the start, that requires lvl 55
strange python
oh yeah
solar rose
I doubt the major essences are going to be so big of a difference that it would be worth farming that particular essence over doing something like grinding 55(islands) to unlock minor to have a major + minor
tough whale
^
solar rose
if you're trying to min-max
strange python
yup
faint harness
old changes
tough whale
nothing too wild, expected brewmaster damage nerf
inland wyvern
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
unique field
if im at 4 out of 5 cp do i mutilate or do i just use envenom/ rupture?
stuck knoll
Finish on 4+ cp
red plaza
Or refresh garrote if its needed to get to 5
tame basin
Hey guys, what essence should I choose at start before vision of perfection coming out?
neon compass
How does vision works on targeted abilities like vendetta?
Just puts it on your current target?
icy ember
it works by calmly removing vendetta from being in line w/vanish
neon compass
Any real answers?
atomic willow
well it's currently still bugged on ptr so tuff to give any REAL answer
neon sedge
Wait so blood is bis for dungeons? Incoming pvp grind
tribal marlin
Might be good if fight duration make it good
spice surge
Blood and EB has insane synergy
tribal marlin
like if you can fit more than 2 vendetta in the fight, might be the best choice regardless of it desync vanish
lean coral
thats the honor earned one right
spice surge
Desyncing it from vanish isnt going to be worth
tribal marlin
You sure it work ? When I tested a few weeks back the 100% crit from Unbound Forces was not acting like "real" crit thus not increasing EB damage
spice surge
Unbound was crit chance
tribal marlin
Ye i'm talking about the 25% crit chance from bote
spice surge
EB damage has nothing to do with crit chance, a crit with fok does the same damage everytime regardless of how much crit you have
tribal marlin
eb dmg are increase by crit chance no ?
spice surge
No
Or well, the more crits you do the more procs you get
But the damage of the waves isnt increased
tribal marlin
That's not what was originally planned then
It was told that the wave from EB was always critical but was increased with crit chance
spice surge
It is always a crit
It does not scale with crit chance, never has (not on ptr either)
celest mirage
you guys think crucible trink is good enough to stay relevent in 8.2?
vast forum
if any masochists farm uu'nat mythic next tier, the 425 base ilvl is actually insane
any kind of WF/TF will make the trinket really good
tribal marlin
Is the trinket will able to proc 425+ anyway once s3 begin?
strange python
who's a good authority on the upcoming changes?
fresh robin
anyone know when m+ chest ilvl increases?
glacial jasper
Two weeks
drifting cloud
isnt is mythic week usually
nimble tartan
my guild still gonna rekill uunat/try to rekill uunat next few weeks hope i get a thiccie trinkie
jaunty comet
Any idea yet(I know pin said so theorycraft) but maybe feelycraft ideas for what essences to shoot for
quiet totem
The wowhead guides were updated with essences for each spec
spice surge
Yeah and they say basicly what the pins here say. That we cant really give a definitive answer until they're all implemented properly in simc and we can run sims
meager nebula
it does at least rule out the bad essences, so you can narrow down your list of ones to focus on
jaunty comet
lol right after I typed it my son sent me a link .....
spice surge
The thing is that most of the testing that the wowhead links are based on are from early ptr (when you could easily test them) and a lot of things have changed
For example the minor of Purification used to do really good damage (like 7-8% of your overall damage) now its pretty awful (between 0.5-1.5%)
So for now i would take those recommendations with a large chunk of salt
sleek umbra
so everyones been asking about essences, but what about the punchcard trinket? any feelcraft on that yet
tribal marlin
probably something you want to equip ye
raven spire
visions major, lucid minor?
there is a vid on youtube that says the dot from NP gets huge buffs from visions
does more dmg than everything else over time including melee hits
purely st though
NPx3, EBx3, SSx1 would be ideal imo
tribal marlin
What's the date from the video ?
raven spire
like a month ago
raven spire
damn
tribal marlin
Wait for the sim we don't know actually
tribal marlin
It's passiv still can be a thing
raven spire
if u can understand the guy's accent lul
u would think 6-7 sec bursts of vendetta is still going to be good regardless
tribal marlin
Yes this video isn't accurate anymore they changed that.
Vision only proc NP for 7sec now
raven spire
aah
tribal marlin
Vision still increase Vendetta uptime from a damn lot and that might be a thing
raven spire
yeh
tribal marlin
Basically if you take a 620sec fight actually the essence could increase vendetta uptime from 16% to almost 30% and this can be a thing so. Unfortunately it's untestable on PTR because of some bugs and sims aren't ready yet so take this with some salt.
raven spire
funny thing about scottish accent.. if you say 'space ghettos' in an american accent, it ends up being 'spice girls' in a scottish one
yeah i read that visions is buggy rn
tribal marlin
haha I'm not enough fluent in english to compare but I admit infexious have quite a wierd one
raven spire
his is about as thick as it gets among scots
silk wadi
any news on trinket sims for 8.2 as of yet?
hasty brook
Guessing no up todate rogue ptr guide
meager nebula
guides will be updated once all the tc/sims have been done so the guide writers can provide accurate and up to date information
hasty brook
ty
nimble tartan
i heard theres a discord that has exclusive info dump to nitro server boosters hehe
grim canopy
i liked when he had to cook poisons
winter moss
strange python
engi/lw pog for prog?
grim canopy
does the new raid have eb/ss azerites
winter moss
incl free boots/pants
well
https://www.wowhead.com/guides/azsharas-eternal-palace-raid-gear-azerite-armor-boss-loot @grim canopy there ya go bud
bleak star
How’s assas looking for 8.2? Or should I say in general?
grim canopy
good
bleak star
Awesome thinking bout dusting off the ole rogue, swapped to hunter mid mythic battle of d
Does it proc on current target? Also if vendetta is on target already does it extend it?
winter moss
well the proc comes from spells and abilities iirc
so ticking dmg wont procc it
and if it's going to extend it or nah i cant say 
grim canopy
do i need 3eb/3ss for m+? getting that combo seems rough
bleak star
What if it over writes current one 🤔 I know ele was getting screwed cause it would replace a long fire ele with short
winter moss
@grim canopy head over to raider.io or warcraftlogs and look what other sin rogues are playing
a mixture of 1-2SS 1-3EB and 1-3 TTK
depends on dungeon, affixes and group comp
grim canopy
ah ok
winter moss
there is and never will be an easy answer to "what traits hould i play"
grim canopy
cause i doubt i'll ever have 3ss/3eb
winter moss
because 3ss/3eb is not worth it
grim canopy
mmm ok
winter moss
2ss/2eb/2ttk is a solid setup and fairly easy to achieve
grim canopy
nice
winter moss
cephalohide chest, fluidmachinations head and shoulder w/e
grim canopy
i havn't done ass since legion i was worred
winter moss
ass? 
worldly iron
"I haven't done ass" what a quote
grim canopy
yes i am going all in ass tomarrow
distant lava
I havent doen ass in a while either 
winter moss
one out of context qoute and the whole gang rolls in
grim canopy
i was able to put together a 3 eb from my outlaw gear and try out some m+, the aoe is nuts
grim canopy
and i got to hear that old fok noise that i loved in wotlk
which i think the trait makes
meager nebula
With pulls being smaller next season then what they are now, I doubt 3eb will be the play
bleak star
I ran 3 eb this week with teeming was pretty pog
grim canopy
ya next season will be interesting
winter moss
again: affixes, comp, dungeon
try running 3eb on KR
you will lose huge amount of boss dmg
bleak star
Gross
grim canopy
true
winter moss
then try again with 1-2eb 1-2 ss rest TTK
giga boss dmg
juicy 110k env crits
or even 120
bleak star
Is ttk > dd?
bleak star
Cause fok spam?
winter moss
30min key: 20min trashpacks, 10min bossfights
IF 10 min bossfights
proll around 7-8mins
and since DD has this little addition that you gotta hit mut with BOTH DAGGERS
winter moss
imma myself
winter moss
depends on traits, and you proll end up with ~25%crit ~20%haste and rest mastery
bleak star
Dungeon slice is so meh tho
bleak star
Wel obvi
bleak spoke
Man what you always muti with 2 daggers
Also man what you play haste mastery for raid and crit mastery for keys
bleak spoke
You only cast muti with two daggers
That’s why you get 2-4 cp
1 per dagger and each can crit
strange python
can't wait to farm bgs
grim canopy
said no one
bleak spoke
I can’t wait for focusing iris or the Azeroth guardian things to just be best
And for it to be supremely uninteresting
strange python
focusing iris is good aoe burst but thats only really for m+
strange python
if it gets affected by vendetta maybe
bronze kelp
the burst is nice, and it seems not to be split on aoe
graceful shale
quick question on p1 of M jaina should I be using toxic blade off no matter what? one my G officers was getting on to me for not using it as much as a rank 1 parse durring p1 but I usually hold it when ring is just about to come out. I'm more focused in what I can put in durring TB then popping off cd. I also have 3xDD
idek why he was getting mad at me boss on farm and other rogue in my guild used TB less than me lol
graceful shale
exactly
bronze kelp
profit=0
meager nebula
Comparing to a rank 1 parse is a joke
graceful shale
ty officer making me think i'm crazy
meager nebula
They do the fight differently
bronze kelp
jep
meager nebula
If your officer doesn't play your class you should explain to him why it's bad for you to use x ability there
Rather than just blindly following logs
lament dove
imagine Jaina not getting killed because a rogue used one less TB
bleak spoke
that's definitely not why they didn't get the kill
but holding tb for after ring is 100% ❌
cuz it messes up your tb timing with vendetta
desyncs it by ~12-13 seconds
neat estuary
I found that you can usualy use TB, get 2 envenoms in before shadowstepping out of the ring
bleak spoke
just cloak
neat estuary
And Not mess up with the timings for next Vendetta
bleak spoke
but like if you have a 3-4 envenom TB as your second tb unless you get really weird rupture timings you're usually going to struggle to get the third envenom anyway
in 3rd tb
but if you're well set up you can just cloak first ring
neat estuary
Cloaks needs to be rdy for intermission so you can carry the weaker raiders through by soaking ^^
bleak spoke
it will be up if you cloak first ring
neat estuary
True
graceful shale
usually can't cloak for carrying soak^ and sometimes with avalanch in p1 it's sometimes a shitshow
bleak spoke
man what