#tc-research

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

graceful onyx
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jetscale less reliably so

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so might be sage specific, which probably means bug #6

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small indie company momentOMEGAKEKW

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i kinda wish we could hear something from realz about this trinket but this shit prolly aint their priority lol

west prism
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it's also not his area, so prob doesnt know

gloomy glade
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Netscape states once the ace is drawn it no long shuffles. But it’s shuffling after the ace gets drawn 😂 but it feels like each cast it shuffles but is that how it is supposed to work? If so the sims are wrong and this trinket is dead to me

graceful onyx
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yeh basically this one

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jetscale is dead but trinket still not bad at all

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emberscale is literally just 50% chance to land on something poggers every shuffle

gloomy glade
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So jet scale is confirmed dead or just dead on how it’s working now

graceful onyx
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confirmed dead in m+

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and possibly dead in raids too

white grove
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it's the pvp sigil

graceful onyx
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unless u dont shuffle out of combat, but ur supposed to somehow retain shuffles between 2 packs?

gloomy glade
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Ya I used it in raids and it shuffles on the same boss. P dumb

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Wasted all that gold too

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Falls in with the ruby trinket too

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Tho I had 360k crit but getting buffs more than shots is silly

unkempt crescent
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Did you train it correctly?

dapper nacelle
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I came back to this to look at it again but im getting this error now, and im not sure whats going wrong?

image.png
finite sparrow
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Looks like that paste is missing some underscores

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highmountaintauren -> highmountain_tauren

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voidelf -> void_elf

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etc

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fixed

dapper nacelle
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oo thanks ^.^

regal agate
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oh, i must have used a old file on accident

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will fix, moment (fixed)

craggy zephyr
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is broodkeeper's barrier (diurna ring) not implemented on simc? i wanted to check uptime

finite sparrow
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Should be identical to the dps proc

craggy zephyr
finite sparrow
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Both are 2 rppm and last 6 seconds

craggy zephyr
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details shows around 20% uptime (assuming shield lasts all 6s)

noble pendant
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not sure if it's tracking it since you're not taking damage in the sim

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shields like that are kinda weird

quiet hound
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either way ~ sub 20% uptime matches 2rppm with 6s duration

noble pendant
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ye

craggy zephyr
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probably should have picked a socket instead of this but yea

wintry meteor
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what is the best sigil atm for darkmoon deck?

regal agate
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there are a lot of bugs around sigils, so hard to say

last sundial
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is there a good video/tutorial on learning how to use raidbots in an advanced manner?

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thought this would be the place to ask

regal agate
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there is no video, but the apl wiki linked in the pins is a good starting point

raw knoll
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@south notch thanks for looking deeper into it. I noticed this on my feral as well as my rogue (both have the heroic version) and way different secondary stats.

knotty oriole
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The 25% vs. 10% thing was some hidden hotfix at some point. This has already been fixed today when Push reported it earlier with logs.

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This isn't in spell data at all and hard-coded in some script somewhere

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So not something we can pull or update automatically. And isn't referenced anywhere in the tooltips either.

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Not sure what you mean by the B point though

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I would think A and B are basically just the same issue though? The max being lower seems like a factor of it just being a much lower bonus in SimC right?

# 
double composite_ta_multiplier( const action_state_t* s ) const override
{
  return generic_proc_t::composite_ta_multiplier( s ) * ( 1.0 + gathering->check_stack_value() );
}

Now the stack value will be 0.25 instead of 0.1. Meaning at cast 8 it will do 1 + (7 * .25)

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Which would match your numbers above

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Should be updated in the nightly tonight

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Not totally sure when the 10% bonus got changed to 25%. If I were to guess, it would be when they were messing with the ICDs.

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But since it's not referenced anywhere, nobody noticed

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Not immediately anyway

cerulean sable
cerulean sable
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ty

willow knoll
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for my charcter with a 421 whetstone, and a 424 grieftorch for reference

image.png
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seems gud

cerulean sable
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yeah shit looks cracked

noble pendant
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still seems no good for sin

regal agate
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Spiteful storm after the update:
~ 1.5% gain for Subtlety single target.
~ 0.3% gain on Outlaw single target.
still behind on Assassination but moves from 1.6% behind bis to 0.8% behind.

hearty olive
west prism
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Thats not a 15% buff

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If it goes from 10 to 25

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More like 150%

hearty olive
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Oh i misread

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I see

muted sorrel
regal agate
muted sorrel
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ty

regal agate
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it isn't something you see in spell data, and hence it needs testing and was a change that was missed, the update adjusted it

undone oracle
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is there a cap on how many times i can trigger diurnas ring in a period of time

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eranog*

proud wadi
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it's hasted 2ppm I believe

flat spade
# undone oracle is there a cap on how many times i can trigger diurnas ring in a period of time

99% of the time if you look up the proc it will tell you the rate:

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=394452/broodkeepers-blaze

Current instance where that isn't true is primordial stones, they don't say shit about proc rate.

To answer the question, it's unhasted 2ppm, if you look at 400+ ilvl it will give you the real procs.

Interestingly most stuff at ilvl1 says hasted ppm but if you take the slider up, then back to 1 it is no longer hasted.

Wowhead
Broodkeeper's Blaze

Dealing Fire damage has a chance to ignite your enemies, burning them for an additional 1027 damage every 2 seconds. A spell from World of Warcraft: Dragonflight.

finite sparrow
flat spade
knotty oriole
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Sliders on wowhead really aren't relevant. It's just one spell with scaling factors. It wouldn't change.

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Just a bug on their side

grand torrent
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Does anyone have info on when the onyx annulet and its sockets will be available to simulate? Maybe it might be worth comparing some things with flaring cowl considering seal of diurna's chosen having fire damage proc

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maybe they can proc off from eachothers dots, etc...

noble pendant
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the 10.0.7 gems all seem very weak as of now

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from both testing and some early simulations, it seems like they probably wont beat most obtainable gear like valored rings

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let alone some of the stronger special effects

regal agate
warm zinc
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Would any of the gems allow you to use a different embelishment than flaring cowl and equip the 424 tier head while still proccing eranog ring?

night jewel
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Looking at fuu's test the only thing that seems to be changed was the ring. unless i'm missing something it didn't seem to consider adding a different embellishment and changed to a 424 tier helm + picking up better shoulders.

regal agate
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as mentioned above, most gems still need to be implemented. We can look if its worth when they are.
So best is to have a bit more patience, the gems possibly are not worth the damage loss given that they are pure damage effects and completely lack secondary stats.

undone oracle
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Eranogs ring doesnt sim right, right?

regal agate
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it does

undone oracle
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lol forget i said anything thanks

glacial aspen
regal agate
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Small update on the Primal stones, Dorovon did implement a lot more of them.
Not all Gems are implemented yet, nor is the implementation perfect, keep this in mind!
List of gems: https://www.wowhead.com/guide/forbidden-reach/primordial-stones

Simulations Show the following combinations as the highest result:
Desirous Blood Stone - Freezing Ice Stone - Echoing Thunder Stone
Relative damage to bis for each spec:

Subtlety: 
- 0.4% dps
Outlaw:
+ 1.7% dps
Assassination:
- 1.8% dps```
__Simulation links:__
Assassination: <https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rSP14kU75PpBQK7pDd3sAJ>
Outlaw: <https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/k2M2fCPaLweVMCjiBnjaYn>
Subtlety: <https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iJCCfZCfWLfx8f14WJWRNN>

Table showing individual values:
image.png
ruby agate
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Flame licked maybe better if it lets you cut cowl for a higher ilvl helm and another embellish, since it's pretty close to blood

finite sparrow
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the flame gem doesnt seem to have high enough rppm to proc diurna's ring as much as the cowl can

regal agate
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I forgot to add enchants to the ring, will post updated results in a minute

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Updated - Relative damage to bis for each spec:

Subtlety: 
+ 0% dps
Outlaw:
+ 2% dps
Assassination:
- 1.5% dps```
__Simulation links:__
Assassination: <https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/draimpLboovwNkbFwCW6rx>
Outlaw: <https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1Mzbjdn4pLQazPoN6RBbaN>
Subtlety: <https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2gmLidoi6wy7PPHRz1b1bb>

Simulations Show the following combinations as the highest result:
```Desirous Blood Stone - Freezing Ice Stone - Echoing Thunder Stone```
Table showing individual values:
image.png
mild rover
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any initial tc thoughts on announced 10.1 set bonuses

regal agate
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the 3 spec channels have pins talking about them. It is too early to talk about numbers

finite sparrow
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you should see the pins of each spec channel for that stuff

dusty delta
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And those Are Max upgraded gems?

weary scroll
regal agate
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seems like this applies to all 3, making the ring even for subtlety approachable

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What brings the comparison to:

Subtlety: 
+ 0.6% dps
Outlaw:
+ 3.2% dps
Assassination:
- 0.6% dps```
And changes the highest simming combination to:
```Humming Arcane Stone + Freezing Ice Stone + Echoing Thunder Stone```
willow knoll
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Outlaw 💪

proud wadi
tough hornet
willow knoll
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Dropping flaring cowl didn't seem worth it for Outlaw at least

regal agate
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it isn't worth on all 3

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cowl has consistent damage to trigger the effect, neither of the rings can compensate for that

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it is just a common misconception that we don't run cowl anymore, it is also why i made a note about it in the pin in #subtlety when i created it yesterday

finite sparrow
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i've not done exhaustive sims but it is not impossible for outlaw to replace cowl in dslice/aoe sims

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just my impression so far

regal agate
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oh absolutely, cowl in general is not far ahead in dungeon slice and can lose to pure stats in aoe

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however for single target it is quite set

west prism
regal agate
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it should be given that those are global damage amps, but i don't know the implementation details in simc

stray turret
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is the damage/heal shadow gem being considered because i did some test on ptr and it seem broken

west prism
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Whats the name of it? Should be in the combination sim.

stray turret
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its not in the screenshot so i was wondering

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paired with these two and btw leech proc the healing one

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and getting healed by another player (healer) will proc it and then proc de damage side of the ring and combine with fire gem you can reach a 30% uptime on eranog ring with cowl

warm garnet
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Very interesting

quiet hound
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thats not what is being suggested by the description tho. if it indeed procs off of other effects that are not prim stone related, seems like something that might get fixed

noble pendant
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they already fixed the infinite loop from that from what I know

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got hotfixed out

stray turret
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im not talking about the infinite loop

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the heal stone still proc the damage one and vice versa

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i tested it after the hotfix

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so when your leech proc the heal stone it proc the damage one

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and when damage stone proc by itself you get the heal proc to

pseudo monolith
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so idk if I don't understand how it works on a systematic level, but wouldn't you want the shard that does fire damage for more eranog ring procs? or is it so much lower than the frost one that it's not worthwhile

finite sparrow
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not worth at least in single target sims so far

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you wont get “more” ring procs because the ring is rppm and flaring cowl already procs the ring as much as it’s able

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so the value of the flame gem is removing flaring cowl for something else, but the flame gem has a low proc rate so the ring wont proc nearly as often than it does with cowl

pseudo monolith
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I see, thank you for telling me 🙂

warm zinc
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Is it unhasted RPPM?

regal agate
regal agate
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it is hasted rppm

warm zinc
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I see, where do you get the spell data files from?

regal agate
warm zinc
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The loop mentioned above between the heal gem and fire gem could increase the ppm of the fire gem considerably right?

junior ibex
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thats unlikely

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and if it would work like that it would be changed pretty fast

warm zinc
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Well, considerably is an exageration, it would more likely be like 50%

junior ibex
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ye but thats far from enough to make using only a single dpsgem worth it

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considering that the dpsgems in the sim all give around 1.5-2k dps

warm zinc
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Yea i was more thinking about the diurna ring

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If the increased ppm would make it usable without flaring cowl

junior ibex
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not really

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the required amount of triggers is one trigger every 3.5s

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if you have bigger gaps

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the eranogring wont be used with max procs

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and can easily lowroll

warm zinc
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Yeah, its not gonna have that much ppm no matter what

junior ibex
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ofc if you like to gamble its a thing you can do

pseudo monolith
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do you not see the outlaw color? they live for the gamba

junior ibex
warm zinc
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Nah been playing sub

pseudo monolith
warm zinc
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The 424 helm + potion inhibitor oh is mighty juicy in dung slice

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So im coping for a flaring cowl replacement, most likely not going to happen

junior ibex
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well the thing is that eranogring is purely st thing so if you change from dslice (which is very st heavy) to a droute the value from eranogring diminishes pretty quickly, esp when you use routes from AA or AV

pseudo monolith
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considering flaring already puts eggnog ring to max procs

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I doubt it

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that too

junior ibex
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but overall its more liekly that the gems for dungeons will be something with the absorb triggers earthquake thing

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thats sadly not simmable since there is no absorb gem implemented

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but for example this combination looks promising due to the very frequent and reliable tirggers for the earthquake

pseudo monolith
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wow I didn't even see this one

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looks strong for m+

junior ibex
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tho it can ofc also end with the 3 target capped ring

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the problem is more the way this scales

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it has the same scaling like a lot of trinkets

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e.g. whetstone

pseudo monolith
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oof

junior ibex
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so +15% dmg for each target up to 5

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so 160% of the initial dmg on 5 targets

warm zinc
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I was very sad to see boon actually scales that way aswell

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Since tooltip doesn't mention it

pseudo monolith
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it doesn't state that it deals reduced damage beyond those 5 targets, so either it's uncapped or only hits 5

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if it only hits 5

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might not be that great

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unless someone already tested it then I don't know anything

junior ibex
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well it states the same as the trinkets with that effect

pseudo monolith
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that's fair

junior ibex
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"increased dmg up to 5" is 15% per target up to five and then split dmg

pseudo monolith
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oh I missed the split dam

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mb

junior ibex
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same thing you have rn with whetstone

regal agate
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^ is a article for the stones, so you know what the name is of the effect you want

junior ibex
# regal agate <https://www.wowhead.com/guide/forbidden-reach/primordial-stones>

also improved my sheet kekwLeave
it now includes a builder for copies so we can sim in advanced more easily with all combinations WICKEDthumbsup
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10fN6J2vzF2FfSPxtXjF3l5BRF5b29JvbRwMh_vSy5yM/edit#gid=745426612

Google Docs
Onyx & Primordial

Combination Builder

finger1=onyx_annulet,id=203460,ilevel=424,GEM ID

Humming Arcane Stone,204018,204018,204005,204002,# finger1=onyx_annulet,id=203460,ilevel=424,gem_id=204018/204005/204002
Entropic Fel Stone,204005,204018,204005,204011,# finger1=onyx_annulet,id=203460,ilevel=424,gem_id=204018...

regal agate
#

nice 👍

junior ibex
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so feel free to make a copy and yeet/add the gems of your choice WICKEDthumbsup

warm zinc
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I'm wondering if Boon is simming properly at the moment, since it looks like the target scaling is not linear at all.
The logs I will link are all from the first damage event of the trinket, so no damage amp involved, and same fight, same player, so no vers difference.
First log is 1 target (15.6k damage for first tick), second log is 9 targets (11.3k damage for first tick) and third log is 13 targets (a bit less than 10k for first tick).
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TrANyRBVbZ3479hW#fight=5&type=damage-done&source=11&ability=382090&phase=1&start=2478967&end=2481968
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TrANyRBVbZ3479hW#fight=5&type=damage-done&source=11&ability=382090&start=2640834&end=2662470
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TrANyRBVbZ3479hW#fight=5&type=damage-done&source=11&ability=382090&phase=4&start=2962601&end=2973799

warm zinc
brisk plaza
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looking at exclusively min hit non crit, there might be damage splitting going on

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1 target 15.6k, 9 targets 11.1k, 13 targets 9.6k

warm zinc
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Yep, and I'm wondering what amount of targets does damage split starts, because at the moment the trinket is uncapped in simms (using it on 10 targets does 10x dmg than on 1 target)

tender mauve
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15.6k->9.6k is 61.5%, which is uncannily close to the 62% dmg/target for a 5 target softcapped ability against 13 targets

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Calculation isn’t as close for the 9 target one tho

warm zinc
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There is still a damage increase from 9 targets to 13, 100k to 125k, but it is not linear scaling

somber star
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Is the ring specifically playable for rogues? I tried asking around about it in other class discords and it seems like people aren't even looking into it

noble pendant
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this is the current numbers

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fuu has more precise sims in his sheet

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there's still some simc stuff that needs to ironed out I believe + some testing isn't fully understood

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but it should be good enough

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if you scroll up there's been a lot of discussion in the channel around it

warm zinc
#

This is the damage graph of boon based on number of targets

image.png
lime canyon
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Is that raw damage? as in, it does less damage over 20 targets?

noble pendant
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Would assume it’s damage per tick

warm zinc
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It's total damage

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Yes, it does less damage over 20 targets

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Scales linear to 5 targets, so 5 targets is 5x damage of 1 target, and after 5 targets you start losing dmg per target

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So 8 targets is 27% more damage overall than 5 targets, as opposed to 60% if it were a linear scaling

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You can see in the graph how at 5 targets the curve changes

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It's missing pulls between 14 and 19 mobs because i cbad testing that but everything else was tested multiple times, especially the 21 to 31 mob pulls because I found the values giga weird

noble pendant
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getting worse with more targets

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is crazy

golden briar
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Blizzard math doing work

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I would expect it to level off too

brisk plaza
#

but for it to go down at 21 targets is odd

warm zinc
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If you want to test it yourself, go to normal RLP and do it on whelps

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You can easily pull up to 32 mobs

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But I did double / triple test all the values over 20 because I was a bit mind blown

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The only place this really matters is AA tree area

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But I think it's still good to implement into sims for 5-10 target sims

brisk plaza
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i mean yeah i always felt like it didnt so as much as it should considering the target amount in AA tree area so this explains it, i think it's worth updating sims incase we get a system similar to fated raids again

warm zinc
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There's still quite a bit of 10.0 left 😛

brisk plaza
#

yeah that too

brisk plaza
#

Did some open world testing with the bomb dispenser and here's all the info i have on it:

1. ANY CRIT will give you a stack, this means autoattacks, main gauche, any global and even trinket crits will grant a stack.
2. Gaining a stack seems to have a internal cooldown of roughly 0.5 sec, after testing on dummies i seem to get a bomb roughly every 19 sec. (KiR dance build)
3. Range seems to be somewhere around 50 yards? (probably to keep MM hunters in mind)
4. Using the trinket does not incur the double on use CD other on use trinkets normally would.
5. Throwing a bomb on a target that already has a bomb on it makes the old one explode disregarding the remaining duration and applies a new one with the normal duration.

Bomb Dispenser damage info:
All tests are done on Tauren.
ST                 106k nm 106k total
                     215k crit
AoE 1 target 88k nm 88k total
                     179k crit
AoE 2 target 51k nm 102k total
                     105k crit
AoE 3 target 38k nm 114k total
                     78k crit
AoE 4 target 32k nm 128k total
                     66k crit
AoE 5 target 28k nm 140k total
                     57k crit
AoE 6 target 26k nm 154k total
                     52k crit
AoE 7 target 22k nm 157k total
                     46k crit
AoE 8 target 19k nm 154k total
                     38.2k crit
AoE 9 target 17k nm 153k total
                     35k crit```
brisk plaza
#

Fixed some numbers that were inaccurate

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seems to scale pretty linear so far

regal agate
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what is ST

brisk plaza
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Its when you use the bomb on 1 target

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without sniping at all

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the AoE snipe is the targets hit by the actual explosion portion, meaning that you'd need 1 target above the the actual targets hit in order to do it

brisk plaza
#

updated with higher target counts

image.png
severe atlas
#

Is this graph based off of damage from the first tick or all ticks?

I’ve noticed it doing full damage on some ticks in logs (7-9 targets, never the first tick) but didn’t dig to see if there was a consistent pattern.

brisk plaza
#

are you referring to the bomb dispenser?

severe atlas
#

Sorry, that was in reference to the graph from @warm zinc

brisk plaza
#

no worries

real geode
#

Past 20t for boon is it actually hitting all the mobs?

regal agate
#

they introduced a soft cap on many spells for 20(in pandaria iirc), after wich the damage spreads equally w/e of target counts.
My assumption would be that this applies here. There could be some other funky stuff going on if damage gets lower after 20

real geode
#

Yea like somehow it's considering it as -1t instead of +1t for every target over 20

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Or the ticks are not empowered on fresh targets over 20

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Would need to see a log ig

mystic jolt
#

the damage for each individual target should be less but the overall damage should be the same at 20+, should it not?

real geode
#

The damage should level off into a flat line past 20 if I understand right

tough hornet
knotty oriole
#

Most stuff actually does less

#

I'll bring up this boon stuff to the other guys who work on items, but people are pretty busy with the PTR stuff atm

knotty oriole
golden briar
knotty oriole
#

It's because sqrt scaling continues past 20 but damage is hard-capped at 20

real geode
#

Oh that's pretty wack

regal agate
#

Updated Primal stones Combinations:
Not all Gems are implemented yet, nor is the implementation perfect, keep this in mind!
List of gems: https://www.wowhead.com/guide/forbidden-reach/primordial-stones

Simulations Show the following combinations as the highest result:
Single Target:

Dungeon slice:
Storm Infused Stone + Humming Arcane Stone + Obscure Pastel Stone
Relative damage to bis for each spec:
Single Target:```diff
Subtlety:

  • 0.7% dps
    Outlaw:
  • 3% dps
    Assassination:
  • 1% dps Dungeon Slice:diff
    Subtlety:
  • 1.2% dps
    Outlaw:
  • 0% dps
    Assassination:

Note: Dungeon Slice simulations might be not 100% representative, it is advised to re-run with your Gear/raid buff setup.

weary scroll
severe atlas
weary scroll
#

That seems to be the case. I ran sims using just 2 stone types (Arcane + Nature) and the damage for the arcane stone itself turns out to be the same when using 3 types and slotting it third. Interestingly though, when using just 2 types and slotting it third, it seems to count itself then https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dPH9mYr1rmAGSrtXnMmTko/simc

Raidbots
Raidbots
weary scroll
#

Upon further testing, I found that not all gem combinations follow the pattern above. I tested permutations of Flame Licked, Freezing Ice, and Humming Arcane and the order did not matter in sims. However, when I tested Echoing Thunder, Freezing Ice, and Humming Arcane with more permutations, then certain orders caused the Arcane stone to do less damage, not just having it in the 3rd slot.
Arcane/Flame/Ice: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ve2Yr2YttBrwPtUzDun1Uk
Echoing Thunder/Arcane/Ice: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uxuScqFxDZoYVd6apRKQmM

Raidbots
Advanced Sim - Outlaw - 88,024 DPS - Raidbots
Raidbots
Advanced Sim - Outlaw - 88,847 DPS - Raidbots
stray turret
#

is the twillight stone still not implemented in the sim ?

regal agate
regal river
regal agate
#

yes

#

the sims did replace the other ring, because dropping eronag is a noticable loss

#

just to repeat it, given that the message is a bit up, the new ring does not replace cowl.
This is because cowl procs the ring reliably and consistent while gems have too low proc rate to compensate

#

so 10.0.7 we will run Seal of Diurna's Chosen + new ring, possibly still use stat rings instead depending on the content/boss

alpine sparrow
stray turret
#

poeple should be aware that twilight is not yet implemented in sim and can be very strong from ptr testing btw

alpine sparrow
#

Here you can see, even when the number of damage procs of flare and fire gem are almost the same, eranog ring procs 2.5 times less with fire gem.

image.png image.png image.png image.png
#

It may be some other thing, but I believe its just eranog ring not proccing with dots

regal agate
#

people basically combined this for it

image.png
alpine sparrow
#

But also to mention these are sims from 3 days ago and I heard blizz made some changes with gems

regal agate
#

pastel stone also had the wrong shool assigned in simc, so it is not bis anymore.

#

best is to sim again with the next update on raidbots as it should eliminate most problems

#

(raidbots current version is some days out of date because it did halt builds before 10.0.7)

stray turret
#

wrong this is not the setup i used

#

and it wasnt a infinite loop i did after hotfix

#

exuding stone licking flame twilight its the combo i did since exuding is procable through leech

#

and the outcome was a boost of 10% uptime to eranog ring if you use the flame stone

somber star
#

Sorry if I am uninformed, i just started my geology major last night

regal agate
terse wyvern
flat nova
#

do we have sims for the new ring comming tomorrow for EU?

regal agate
#

Updated Primal stones Combinations:
Not all Gems are implemented yet, nor is the implementation perfect, keep this in mind!
List of gems: https://www.wowhead.com/guide/forbidden-reach/primordial-stones

Relative damage to bis for each spec:
Single Target:```diff
Subtlety:

  • 2.2% dps
    Outlaw:
  • 5% dps
    Assassination:
  • 0.7% dps Dungeon Slice:diff
    Subtlety:
  • 0.2% dps
    Outlaw:
  • 1.5% dps
    Assassination:

Note: Dungeon Slice simulations might be not 100% representative, it is advised to re-run with your Gear/raid buff setup.

#

Best Stones:
Single target:

Assassination: Echoing Thunder Stone / Freezing Ice Stone / Humming Arcane Stone
Outlaw: Echoing Thunder Stone / Freezing Ice Stone / Humming Arcane Stone
Subtlety: Echoing Thunder Stone / Freezing Ice Stone / Humming Arcane Stone```
__Dungeon Slice:__
```yaml
Assassination: Echoing Thunder Stone / Freezing Ice Stone / Humming Arcane Stone
Outlaw: Echoing Thunder Stone / Freezing Ice Stone / Humming Arcane Stone
Subtlety: Storm Infused Stone / Freezing Ice Stone / Humming Arcane Stone```Note: Please re-run simulations for your Dungeon Slice buff setup to get more accurate results.
manic osprey
#

Do poisons count as magic damage? Otherwise I’m struggling to see how Assassination is going to proc Humming Arcane Stone.

#

Is it just from Cowl procs like Eranog ring?

finite sparrow
#

anything not physical is magic

viral mist
somber star
#

i noticed during raza prog, the buff was stacking 4per out of stealth, 5 per in stealth with shadowrunner, and 6 per with sprint or roar

paper scroll
#

i just did a test by running into a wall next to a training dummy. The freezing ice stone is 242. eching thunder stone is 411 and storm infused stone is 411. crit was 35.22%. movement speed is 121%. This was for 5 minutes and 11 seconds

image.png
#

no shadowrunner

#

stacking up by 4 on a 411 stone and it beats freezing ice stone 242

#

but thats holding W for 5 minutes straight

willow knoll
#

I'm pretty sure the echoing thing is terrible and not realistic

somber star
proud wadi
#

it's oversimming

rich sierra
#

how is that flame licked stone not bis for st?

willow knoll
#

It just isnt

wanton raven
#

th

warm garnet
#

Yeah I swapped the echo for blood stone

#

Preforms slightly worse but better overall and gives healing

regal agate
onyx cave
#

How would that function with static/run speed flask?

regal agate
#

speed potions/flasks likely won't generate enough extra damage to be worth it

brisk plaza
# viral mist Which item is this for?

Dragonfire bomb dispenser, but the trinket is very overtuned so expect it to change, just did it out of curiosity to see when it would start being worth to snipe with it

regal agate
#

Just a heads up, Desirous Blood Stone does count as a healing stone, what means it will proc damage stone effects and vice versa. It is hard to say if that's intended but probably means Desirous Blood Stone + Prophetic Twilight Stone + X will become bis. X is most likely Humming Arcane Stone.

finite grail
regal agate
#

humming is rly strong so possibly humming

spark marsh
#

is it simming correctly with this interaction?

Edit: by it, i mean, the twilight stone interacting with blood stone

regal agate
#

i think raidbots did rebuild for twilight, so nightly should have the interaction

spark marsh
#

thanks fuu

regal river
regal agate
#

the sims are up to date

#

only thing missing is twilight in the linked ones

spark marsh
#

nightly is showing the twilight+blood+humming as higher than thunder+freezing+humming

#

i also hear you may be able to put a vault socket onto this ring but i cannot try it

mild sentinel
#

You cant add a socket, just tried it

spark marsh
#

ty for testing!

dry bronze
wind elbow
mild sentinel
#

You can't add a socket so it doesn't

wind elbow
#

i misread lol, nvm

regal agate
#

Updated Twilight + Blood combinations:```diff
-- BLOOD currently counts as HEALING STONE proccing dps gems and vice versa. This interaction might not be intended and is possible to be hotfixed. Keep this in mind when using the combo --


Best Combination:```yaml
Desirous Blood Stone/Prophetic Twilight Stone/Humming Arcane Stone```
Relative damage to `bis` for each spec:
Single Target:```diff
Subtlety: 
+ 5.2% dps
Outlaw:
+ 8% dps
Assassination:
+ 2.6% dps```
Dungeon Slice:```diff
Subtlety: 
+ 1.7% dps
Outlaw:
+ 2.5% dps
Assassination:
+ 1.2% dps```
__Simulation links:__
Single Target - Combinations 
Assassination: <https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qpvSvbna8KtAYe21C2a679> 
Outlaw: <https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/noKVfzmpVc2j8JuEFEc9dL>
Subtlety: <https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uWQw5MbD15eZH4zrShAaHw> 
Dungeon Slice - Combinations
Assassination: <https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/asAHqhPpGLyxxRvX7Ud76V> 
Outlaw: <https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3eQKLhoVsucSEgaDr5Nj2o> 
Subtlety:   <https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/p2NiYRtQg7wj2VHkTN2G93>

Note: Dungeon Slice simulations might be not 100% representative, it is advised to re-run with your Gear/raid buff setup.

__Simulations without the twilight/blood combo:__
[#tc-research message](/guild/124169701881282560/channel/266712108861751296/)
#

To sim gem combinations easy, you can put this below your /simc in advanced sim on raidbots.
Make sure to use the NIGHTLY build.

📎 ring.txt
wintry horizon
#

Is a blood stone necro magic ?

regal agate
#

that is a question for the discussion channels, the damage type of it is shadow.

image.png
stray turret
#

knew it twilight busted

#

btw not work using fire gem to gem more ing uptime ?

#

on ptri was able to get 10% additional ring uptime with fire gem and twilight shinan

regal agate
#

i added all gems to the Twilight + Blood combination, so unless there is a implementation issue it should consider that

warm zinc
#

how does annulet item level affect the dps the gems do?

#

also does twilight stone ilv affect ppm or does twilight stone ilv literally not matter

regal river
#

Annulet level depends on the level of the gems

warm zinc
#

if you have 424 humming and desirous, does the propethic item level matter at all

#

is basicly what i'm asking

regal river
#

I believe annulet level depends on the average level across all three gems?

warm zinc
#

yes

regal river
#

oh, sorry, misunderstood your question

warm zinc
#

so does the damage the gems do depend on the item level of the item overall or of the specific gem doing damage?

regal river
#

I believe it depends on the gem

#

Because by itself the annulet only gives stamina

#

The item level of your Onyx Annulet will be based of the average ilvl of the three Primordial Stones socketed into the Annulet, but this will only increase the base Stamina from the ring. To increase the effectiveness of the effects from each Primordial Stone, you must level the gem individually.

weary scroll
regal agate
warm zinc
#

could people check their fights and see if the ring actually gets 5 ppm?

#

i've done quite a bit of target dummy testing + reclear today and it seems that its 4 ppm, or slightly over on average

#

which would be quite an oversim

#

(also want to note this was on assa / sub i did not test outlaw at all)

finite sparrow
#

what gem are you talking about?

#

the blood gem is 2.5 and arcane (without proccing through twilight) is 2

#

unhasted

warm zinc
#

i mean the twilight, blood, arcane combo

#

if you check the blood gem in simc it has an interval of 11.5 sec, which would be roughly 5 ppm for the blood gem

#

and obviously the arcane one is just 3x

#

but in reality it looks like the blood gem has an interval of 15 sec on average

#

(with the combo)

finite sparrow
#

none of that matches spell data so dunno what simc is doing behind the scenes

warm zinc
#

this is what i mean

image.png
#

like obviously it will have some variance but the variance seems to be huge and skewed towards less procs

severe atlas
# warm zinc this is what i mean

Do the values for interval and execute match for every stone in the sim reports for the blood/twilight/X combos?

Wondering if the sim is having X stone trigger a desirous blood proc as well.

finite sparrow
#

after bringing this into the simc discord i dont think there is an issue

warm zinc
#

its apparently from RNG protection

heavy sun
heavy sun
gloomy creek
#

source?

heavy sun
#

@gloomy creek trust me bro

image.png image.png image.png
#

no random procs of mainstat/vers/crit to affect the results

maiden cargo
#

tested the same, got similar results

regal agate
#

gems scale of the ring item level

dreamy roost
heavy sun
noble pendant
#

some people are stupid

heavy sun
#

i mean it kinda was fair assumption to think so

light void
#

Save the invaluable resource you can get a shitload off

#

And no it wasnt considering you want the stam anyways and the aforementioned, even if you have in your head that it doesnt offer more dmg

noble pendant
#

yeh, grinding the gem stuff is super free

heavy sun
#

its like 1k hp difference, sure u want it but its not a big deal

noble pendant
#

you can day 1 max level like 7 gems

heavy sun
#

but someone could be extra strapped for mats etc

light void
#

I maxed 6 gems in 1.5 hours before raid yesterday, including questing

dreamy roost
#

took me about 2-3 hours from logging in on patch day to having my maxxed out 424 ring with the correct gems

#

had a bit of an rng skill issue regarding which gems I got from the vendor

#

but yeah

heavy sun
#

i got like 5 gems upped to max in similar time and like 15 leftovers stones

#

had to buy one few times

#

plus the whole thing about not upgrading twilight was in pinned message in outlaw channel

light void
#

Outlaw channel starege

#

That said, this isnt the right channel for that

noble pendant
#

yeah I mean not upgrading twilight is probably fine

#

but it seems really silly when you're at most getting like 5 gems for all of pve

#

even the enchanting stuff is dirt cheap

tough hornet
#

5 gems? Isn't the 3 gem combo bis in every situation

#

Just upgrade em

dreamy roost
#

therefore preparing the other two gems aswell is reasonable

raw knoll
#

people worried about a nerf when the gems are still abysmal for the majority of specs. kinda funny.

#

just farm mats for 60 minutes. you’re prepped.

finite sparrow
#

This channel is for discussion about simc implementations or APLs

regal agate
light void
#

On that note, warrior people said something about humming proccing from non-magic damage spells in sims

finite sparrow
#

yea, humming arcane was proccing from physical and magical dmg, latest nightly build should be magic only

light void
#

So actual numbers are lower than #tc-research message ?
Or was it working as intended there already ?

finite sparrow
#

for rogue there is no difference, we have constant magic damage from poisons etc

maiden cargo
light void
#

What he said still applies

#

Some just are

light void
hearty olive
#

I'd suggest you use a different channel to ask for that. Not really what this channel is for ^^

rich sierra
#

so the flame licked stone was bugged before and couldnt crit? is it bis for st damage now lol

finite sparrow
onyx cave
#

I logged off and on, and some stones dmg looks different, am I mistaken?

wanton raven
#

Waiting on new sims

regal agate
regal agate
stray turret
#

btw the change to humming doesnt seem to aply to proc from twilight it seem to ignore the ICD if proced through the blood one

light void
turbid nymph
#

rebuild? 👀

image.png
regal agate
#

Semi - Updated combinations:
List of gems: https://www.wowhead.com/guide/forbidden-reach/primordial-stones

Relative damage to bis for each spec:
Single Target:```diff
Subtlety:

  • 5.2% dps
    Outlaw:
  • 8% dps
    Assassination:
  • 2.6% dps Dungeon Slice:diff
    Subtlety:
  • 2.6% dps
    Outlaw:
  • 3.2% dps
    Assassination:
  • 1.7% dps```

Simulation links:
Single Target - Combinations
Assassination: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jbkekJQtzu9p25iSVVyfbr
Outlaw: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/orjk61SBjRWC63Wf7hUPe5
Subtlety: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iEwjRoA8mJKMKZFYbnDb4N
Dungeon Slice - Combinations
Assassination: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3Wq3cyeiHyT3JuVDEF33MV
Outlaw: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rx7z8DvmrcZHZREmDg2fXQ
Subtlety: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2fEM31rhiGpomE59NdFhZ5

Note: Dungeon Slice simulations might be not 100% representative, it is advised to re-run with your Gear/raid buff setup.

regal agate
#

tl;dr: mostly changes for dungeon slice.
Blood + Twilight seem to stay bis

fair verge
#

once they commit tht new one we will be able to sim the 20 icd?

regal agate
#

What is missing in the current build is the humming iCD, so expect it to get lower once it is in

light void
#

so maybe freezing ice ends up better. is it possible to separately view damage of humming proccing itself and humming getting procced? 😄

#

wait, I could actually just view a spread of humming without twilight + blood

narrow light
brisk plaza
#

or functionality

regal agate
maiden cargo
#

Do we know if the icd is circumvented by twilight procs

regal agate
#

Full Updated combinations:
List of gems: https://www.wowhead.com/guide/forbidden-reach/primordial-stones

Relative damage to bis for each spec:
Single Target:```diff
Subtlety:

  • 4.6% dps
    Outlaw:
  • 7% dps
    Assassination:
  • 2% dps Dungeon Slice:diff
    Subtlety:
  • 2.4% dps
    Outlaw:
  • 3.3% dps
    Assassination:
  • 1.7% dps```

Simulation links:
Single Target - Combinations
Assassination: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jmUr3JtAc2oaRNgRP8Ju9x
Outlaw: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1aPCAWMKH6hym4ZDf8mWht
Subtlety: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cmKxdXkaajRAaZJcZNvdad
Dungeon Slice - Combinations
Assassination: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9pmtX9237RqgWYfD767UKX
Outlaw: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tUBY1KAoFdafZffbfK2FuH
Subtlety: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mqZt87tvZcc4AT7kFMndP3

Note: Dungeon Slice simulations might be not 100% representative, it is advised to re-run with your Gear/raid buff setup.

maiden cargo
#

Because thats how it functions in game

regal agate
#

Best Stones:
Single target:

Assassination: Desirous Blood Stone / Prophetic Twilight Stone / Freezing Ice Stone
Outlaw: Desirous Blood Stone / Prophetic Twilight Stone / Freezing Ice Stone
Subtlety: Desirous Blood Stone / Prophetic Twilight Stone / Freezing Ice Stone```Note: `Echoing Thunder Stone` sims marginally higher for Assassination but is in general not advised to be used.

__Dungeon Slice:__
```yaml
Assassination: Desirous Blood Stone / Prophetic Twilight Stone / Storm Infused Stone
Outlaw: Desirous Blood Stone / Prophetic Twilight Stone / Storm Infused Stone
Subtlety: Desirous Blood Stone / Prophetic Twilight Stone / Storm Infused Stone```
Note: `Echoing Thunder Stone` sims marginally higher for Outlaw but is in general not advised to be used.

Note: Please re-run simulations for your Dungeon Slice buff setup to get more accurate results.

__Simulations:__ [#tc-research message](/guild/124169701881282560/channel/266712108861751296/)
dreamy roost
regal agate
#

Nightly has the ICD changes now. (make sure you use NIGHTLY build on raidbots)
You can find a copy/paste file for the ring when following this ling:
#tc-research message

willow pecan
#

@regal agate sims simulate constant movement for echoing, right?
so in practice it might not be best?

regal agate
#

the sim does not use sprint or step to generate more stacks, so it potentially even slightly underestimates the value.
You can also jump to trigger the effect if you don't like to constantly want to A - D .

maiden cargo
regal agate
#

the stack generation is based on your movement speed

maiden cargo
#

Okay fuck that.

regal agate
#

you can easy test it by using sprint and see how many stacks you get vs. moving regular

maiden cargo
#

I'll kill my whole damn raid on raz

light void
#

still sounds like something noone wants to use tho

maiden cargo
#

If it gives more damage it'll get used.

willow pecan
#

I just think if you write that echoing is best, it worth mentioning the pre-requisite for it being best, so people will make wiser choices instead of blindly using it.

light void
#

that adds more dps

raw knoll
#

@regal agate is the ICD on humming hand coded to a hard 20 seconds or is it taking into account thundering still hitting it

sly scaffold
#

so should i enchant speed now ?

regal agate
#

the gain is not worth the trade off, so no, also no speed potions instead of regular damage potions.

#

because many people reported having problems with simming the rings, just put this below your /simc in top gear and it will add all ring combinations for you to select.
Sim guide: <#tc-research message>

📎 rings_top_gear.txt
harsh chasm
#

Do you copy entire text and put in sim or?

spice crescent
harsh chasm
#

Nvm solved it

regal agate
#

How to:
/simc in game
Open the browser on https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/topgear
CTRL+ V in the Load from SimC Addon text box
Copy everything from the text file
CTRL + V it Below your /simc
Select the ring combinations you want to sim
Check under "Simulation Options" that SimC Version is NIGHTLY.
Press Find Top Gear

harsh chasm
#

Ty for help tho ❤️

pallid geyser
#

Did they literally just do another fix??

willow knoll
regal agate
#

Fair, i think freezing is a good alternative that sims within low % dps

willow knoll
#

If the margins are small I'd say it's hard simbait

narrow light
#

Ye, played a nokhud dg, which has a lot of movement, it barely did dmg

regal river
willow knoll
#

The next best choice lol

novel nova
#

Slamming a speed pot and sprinting for DPS is Classic levels of scuffed DPS gains lol

willow knoll
#

I don't have any screenshots off hand, but even with trying as hard as I could to spam movements it just was weak

regal agate
#

I adjusted the message to put freezing as a choice and added a note for Echoing, this should lead to better decisions (for both Assassination and Outlaw).
reference: #tc-research message

heavy stream
dreamy spruce
#

ty

quaint gull
#

i've been testing freezing ice since the update and it seems doing pretty well, around the same dmg on every pull (rasz M)

image.png
karmic veldt
#

uhmm i dont seem to be able to copy the string over into raidbots properly

#

what am i doing wrong

finite sparrow
#

@karmic veldt can you describe what makes you think you are doing it incorrectly

karmic veldt
#

i take the text for all the gems and paste it under my simc info for raidbots and it gives errors and wont sim

cosmic dagger
#

so is storming stone better than echoing in reality if its only simming a few hundred dps behind?

prime narwhal
karmic veldt
#

should be slot 1 no

#

top ring slot

raw knoll
floral moth
#

When that happened to me it was because I had unknowingly highlighted some chat text from the channel as well as the simc input lol

prime narwhal
#

you need to check if your own simc is in the right spot as well

dreamy spruce
#

hey fuu the text you sent for the new sim for the ring aint working

image.png
#

any idea why?

finite sparrow
#

you are in advanced sim, the paste is designed to go under your /simc, to add the rings into your bags so you can select them into top gear

dreamy spruce
#

ahh

harsh minnow
#

is there anyway we can get a pin for @regal agate 's best stone post?

midnight ridge
noble pendant
woven heron
#

doesn't shining obsidian only activate if you get an absorb shield??

#

I think just healing effects. But the reason it works on the blood stone is because it's healing effect is also a damage effect

#

any damage effect from a stone will proc the twilight stone which will trigger another stone. But only a stone with healing effects. and healing effects will proc damage effects. But I don't think the shining one works with twilight stone because it activates when you gain an absorb shield from a stone

#

if you don't have a stone that grants you an absorb shield I don't believe shining stone will ever activate. I guess that's all I mean.

#

the damaging effect from shining is dependent on gaining an absorb shield

grave dawn
#

why not also use then Obscure Pastel Stone ? instead of shiny

regal agate
#

I am not sure all healing related gems are implemented

#

you can try to sim with/without the gem and if the dps don't change it is likely that it is not

#

Also to emphasize this, this channel is a Theorycrfting centric one.
This means most common questions/discussion should go to #assassination , #subtlety , #outlaw or #wow-general .

An example of a question that fits the channel is an observation of a behavior that differs from the simulation.

Questions like "How to sim", "What is BiS" or discussions around flavor/preference should be avoided.

humble linden
#

It seems like there are a few mentions of the Rolling Periodic flag in the spec threads, but I feel like im missing something. IF Rolling periodic means it can reaply and add its damage to the previous instance, doesnt that make it the best ST stone on any target that lives a while?

noble pendant
#

rolling periodic doesn't mean it ramps infinitely, it means that new applications don't lose damage on the previously applied

humble linden
#

right, but its got the highest numeric value too

noble pendant
#

if it's 10 seconds for example per dot, and you apply the first, and the then 2 seconds later you apply the second application, you would have 8 seconds of damage from both, then the first drops, and you have 2 seconds of the second left

#

I mean it still depends on the proc rate

humble linden
#

it just does more damage? unless the ppm is lower

#

Do we have the PPMs?

noble pendant
#

yeah, simc pulls them from the game data

humble linden
#

I see

#

Is there some way to see them in the repo? Or does it pull them at runtime?

#

I found it

#

OK, so the flame stone and freezing ice stone should both be RPPM of 2.5

image.png image.png
#

Same proc rate, but Flame stone does more damage, with the sensible downside that it takes 7 seconds

#

Still hard to see why Patchwerk sim would put flame behind freezing (paired with desirous and prophetic)

#

Fire also has the marginal interaction with Eranog ring I imagine...

stray bolt
#

it can be proc during its effect

humble linden
#

If its rolling like ignite, it means it can right?

#

I havent tested it though

stray bolt
#

it seems it does not accumulate damage if proc before its current instance

humble linden
#

seems unintended if so

stray bolt
#

cannot judge that

#

i didnt have the time to test but it seems so from a perspective that can explain the phenomena of flame falling behind ice.

humble linden
#

ill go hit a dummy, but if its storing damage from multiple "ignites" at once, I would argue there is no damage loss

stray bolt
#

i believe somewhere in a pin, someone stated something like this

humble linden
#

obviously the previous iteration where it was overwiting itself it was going to be weaker

#

so, im seeing 34 hits with 64% uptime, but im seeing all ticks being the same DMG

stray bolt
#

it ticks every sec?

humble linden
#

if this was acting like ignite I'd expect it to grow

stray bolt
#

looks like some ticks lost?

humble linden
#

it seems to tick for 4846 every time

#

i need to watch it more closely

#

3 procs, 21 hits it seems

#

so maybe it hits fast with multiple procs

stray bolt
#

34hits sound like a hit missing for some reason

humble linden
#

im not being scientfiic enough with my test

#

Ok i definitely just watched it reproc itself

#

27 hits...

#

I need an acutal combat log

#

Ok so I think its not rolling at all. Its still rewriting itself. I saw it proc twice in sucession, eneded up with 8 total ticks, all for 4.6K

#

rolling I would expect 6 of the ticks to be double ticks, OR id see all 14 ticks but definitely doesnt look like it

#

Final evidence, the ticks are not always a multiple of 7 and the NEVER deal more damage

#

IT does look its doing some pandemic behavior though... sometimes the buff duration goes above 7

#

so weird

terse wyvern
#

ignite effects typically refresh up to +1 second above their normal duration

humble linden
#

Wouldn’t we also expect it to add damage though? It doesn’t seem to be doing that part

#

To roll over the damage

knotty oriole
#

In terms of Rogue mechanics, Doomblade is a rolling periodic off Mutilate and should work exactly the same way

still orchid
severe atlas
knotty oriole
#

The number of ticks will depend on when the refresh happens.

brisk plaza
knotty oriole
#

Basically rolling periodics perform a duration refresh (typically base duration + in progress tick)

#

Then take all the existing damage from pre-refresh and divide by the new tick count and add it to each tick

humble linden
#

it doesnt go up

#

and it doesnt tick more

#

not even a little

knotty oriole
#

e.g. if you have a periodic ticking for 32 damage 6 times. And it refreshes prior to the 4th tick, you should see something like 32, 32, 32, 41, 41, 41, 41, 41, 41, 41

humble linden
#

right, but it doesnt

#

every tick is the same

knotty oriole
#

I'm addressing this comment "rolling I would expect 6 of the ticks to be double ticks, OR id see all 14 ticks but definitely doesnt look like it"

humble linden
#

yeah, double isnt the right phrasing

#

but you would see something

knotty oriole
#

In this case, it's 6 ticks + pending 4th + initial 3 for 10 ticks total. Then the new periodic ticks end up being 32 + ( (32 * 3) / 7 ), taking the pending 3 ticks and spreading them across the new 7 ticks.

humble linden
#

so I just hit the dummy for a while and at the end, I rolled it like 4 times

#

every single tick did exactly 4664

#

min and max are the same

#

when you refresh, duration goes up as high as 7.5, but no change in tick damage

knotty oriole
#

If there's no change in damage then it's not a rolling periodic

humble linden
#

yeah, but it says it is

#

but its not

#

it has the flag right? that was in the hotfix

#

but its not working

#

BTW, the one thing that does scale it is ghostly strike, it definitely scales with ghostly strike

#

which also seems kind of wrong

finite sparrow
#

gs debuff has always affected all sources of dmg on that target

humble linden
#

that at least makes sense then

#

heres another fun fact, Running the fire stone by itself at ilvl 411 it ticked for 3827, adding the desirous blood stone at 424 it ticked for 4196

#

pretty sure the damage scales with the ilvl of the ring, not the stone

#

kinda irrelevant because we will all use max ilvl rings, but people have been giving the advice that you dont need to rank up the prophetic stone, and that might be incorrect

brisk plaza
willow knoll
#

This type of question goes into #outlaw not here

plush kestrel
#

oh my mistake I thought I was in it. removing now

junior lark
#

Have they implemented tier set into sims yet, and if not, I presume best cause would be to check the commits for an update when they go live?

noble pendant
#

t30 tier is not in yet

regal agate
#

^ on top of that, it is likely that apl changes need to be done after the implementation. So please be patient

regal agate
#

I did run some simulations to show how strong the ring is, and how likely we will replace it next tier.
If there is a mistake in the simulations just let me know.

Simulaitons:
Single Target:
Assassination - Melandrus: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iorqhgjKzftsA1PRph1jF9
Assassination - Regular ring: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4a4eQZHKzFH7ndJxteZfD6
Outlaw: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7hhU6uqJYmkMYHfh3oqox8
Subtlety: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/h4dSmUstSYcoe2eBpyAxhX

Dungeon Slice:
Assassination: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mRGLuHDaf2ivtrRgHwW55f
Outlaw: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/k2z5XJ2ThRJyphyQyrR4sC
Subtlety: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oQeDTaXcMgyFw8HMt77BAT

Results as table:

image.png
brisk plaza
#

so outlaw would need a 565 crit vers ring to beat the onyx annulet in ST?

noble pendant
#

yes

brisk plaza
#

Doesn't that make it highly likely that they would disable the gems or atleast heavily nerf them going into the next tier?

noble pendant
#

yes, they already announced that they would in order to make 10.1 gems replace the annulet

brisk plaza
#

Alright thats explains it

opaque mural
#

Wow thats really close then

#

Titanic insight is like 550ish + socket?

finite sparrow
opaque mural
#

Oh my bad, I read it was 565 secondaries

#

Ok yeah, thats crazy

west prism
proven sparrow
tough hornet
#

I assume single target only

#

Would be interested in a dungeon slice comparison

graceful iron
#

I might be blind but I think there is a Mythic + row on that picture linked

stray turret
#

did the sim take into account the fact that annulet cant have a gem socket added ?

regal agate
#

might be not implemented in sim then, you can ask in the simc discord if somone is working on adding support for it.
https://discord.gg/tFR2uvK

regal agate
# west prism nice, can you also do this for the eranog ring?

Seal of Diurna's Chosen comparison:
DISCLAIMER: This is in combination with cowl.

Simulaitons:
Single Target:
Assassination: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1B6fwmUdvkWRcY5pxpGgUe
Outlaw: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dppMhGGwMXcVDcKtX82eZW
Subtlety: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/a2Udi1P6BFPm3hEdSRAjJr

Dungeon Slice:
Assassination: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hm3frnzvEeF8LmtsVRvM5n
Outlaw: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/daHbV2DSaXqX3nc71EHchK
Subtlety: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7GEs8b5FfLR4dprwHmVKVe

Results as table:

image.png
lavish zenith
#

i assume its just straight ring comparison but thought id dbl check

regal agate
#

it just replaces Diurna's Chosen with a pure stat ring

#

the item level is the point it roughly breaks even

lavish zenith
#

yeah still pretty cool info imo. crazy how strong they are

regal agate
#

you can upgrade cowl to my knowlage in s2, so not sure why head item level is relevant

maiden cargo
#

To 424 only though, didnt have access to the higher one

maiden cargo
sage crescent
#

I have an idea for M+ that isnt really possible to test via sims and am wondering if we can find a way to test it to get solid results.
My theory is with the relation Necromantic Death Stone. First its hard to tell if there is any synergy with Prophetic Twilight Stone to bring its PPM below the started 1 per min which is the first thing i would like help testing.
If it has no synergy the third Stone would be Shining Obsidian Stone which increases its damage done up to 5 enemies since we get a shield from Cold Frost via NDS.
Was wondering if anyone would be able to help me test this since you cant sim having a dead target just next to you

#

screenshots for quick reference

image.png image.png
oak sand
#

already implemented?

#

f

#

cause you can farm the fragments now

#

and i wanted to test it out

regal agate
#

nightly has the latets changes

image.png
#

just make sure to use nightly

junior lark
#

do we have an estimate on when we can expect tier set implementation or no word. also ahhhh light mode

regal agate
#

no eta atm

tender mauve
#

So apparently unholy DK’s are procing it off their pets dying, so Death Stone maybe viable with a warlock or UhDK in your party?

Edit: nvm misread your conclusions at the end

maiden cargo
#

Hello, another person had a few questions that i will ask here, because I don't know myself.
The blood stone deals damage with shadow magic, Sim shows that for subrogue, this blood stone deals about ~30% more damage than in other specializations. Take 2 reports of the same character, but in different specializations, the blood stone in 5 min sim (1 target), Sub deals 1.3M damage, whereas Assa gives 1M or slightly less
Based on this information, the question arises about such a stone as Entropic Fel Stone, which turns damage from fire magic into damage from the school of chaos (and buff this on 60%), which in the game is a mixture of all magic schools, and, if I'm not mistaken, receives buffs from any effects acting on magic damage (subtletly talents, in example).
And finally, the question itself, is the combination of Fel + Flame Stone considered correctly in SimulationCraft? It's just that, as far as I can see, the school of magic is not listed in the Simcraft reports, and it's unclear if it works that way, or if everything is fine there and just these stones themselves are weak?
Sorry for my mistakes in English, it's not my native language. Sorry if this has already been discussed somewhere, I haven't found it.

noble pendant
regal agate
#

chaos damage is a mix of multiple shools iirc including shadow, correct me if that changed

terse wyvern
#

correct

karmic pewter
#

if we can increase chaos, and that thing changes all fire to chaos, then maybe it could have some interesting interaciton with grieftorch as well

maiden cargo
#

and cosmic school has holy, nature, shadow and arcan, which is the first reason why blizz nerfed conduit in shadowlands.

regal agate
#

The pvp trinket was the reason, it had cosmic shool. But it should be similar here so it should be effetced by it.
I did sim the combo but it did not end up as best, what could be due to individual gem value but also because twilight adds a very hard to beat interaction.

terse wyvern
#

It does not seem to be doing the "fel flame" chaos damage dot in sims with the flame licked + entropic fel stone combo

maiden cargo
#

is it possible to find out which school of magic sim uses? it is likely that the sim does not change the school of magic at the fire stone

regal agate
terse wyvern
#

so in the actual implementation it does look like they set the school to chaos, the report might just be wrong

regal agate
#

i would assume that it works correctly

hollow sparrow
warm zinc
regal agate
maiden cargo
#

and sub talents buff this again

#

that is why I'm interested in this moment

regal agate
#

the sim uses this combo

image.png
#

as mentioned, the main "problem" is that twilight just creates a fairly strong combo that does power creep more

finite sparrow
#

think you need divine intervention to beat blood twilight combo

maiden cargo
#

well, I'm asking if it really works correctly or not. Just wondering.
it's not written anywhere which school of spells is used, idk

terse wyvern
#

4.444 Player 'T29 Havoc Demon Hunter' tick amount for Action flame_licked_stone (school fire) on Player 'Fluffy_Pillow'

#

it doesn't seem to be doing damage as chaos

maiden cargo
#

uhm

#

is it possible to somehow forcibly change the stone damage to chaos, in some advanced, or do need to wait for the developers?

#

idk simc very well

regal agate
terse wyvern
#

the problem was fixed in nightly

regal agate
#

nightly is rebuild, so should be in the sim now (does not seem to change output tho)

maiden cargo
regal agate
#

Just because it became a frequent question.
Given the dominance of Twilight + Blood combos, you can use this reduced set of ring combinations.
How to use: Put it below your /simc in Top Gear and select the ring combinations before pressing Find top Gear.

📎 ring.txt
vital jolt
#

Do we have a guesstimate on how long fire ring will last into next tier?

west prism
#

unless nerfed, all of it

#

(for sub and outlaw)

vital jolt
#

Wait... for real?

west prism
#

yes

vital jolt
#

Flaring cowl too?

west prism
#

you can upgrade cowl

regal agate
livid beacon
regal agate
#

yes, it compares to the mythic version not the heroic/normal

#

but it should be fairly easy for you to just use raidbots to see the difference between heroic / mythic using top gear

#

mythic is also easy to clear in a random group, at least the first 2 bosses. But we should move this discussion to the spec channels

light void
thorny fog
#

Yes if you dont have it remember to save at least 1 S1 socket for it

#

it will be worth to farm eranog M for st

loud owl
#

@regal agate both eranog and stats ring sims are with fire head tho ?
Shouldn’t you replace head by a better embellishment for stats ring sim ?

regal agate
#

you can upgrade the head, so you don't lose the impact of it

#

ofc it isn't a perfect comparison with "all things considered"

grand torrent
#

When can we expect to see 10.1 profiles ready to sim on simc website?

regal agate
#

closer to raid release, there is still a lot of things that change in 10.1 and a pile of missing tuning and bugfixes

tough hornet
#

Are there some scripts or something that generate the massive lists of items in top gear needed for combinatorial sims of things like trinkets, embellishments, etc?

regal agate
#

you can use my updated list for 10.1 but it won't work in top gear before it supports 10.1 (if you put it in it will only show items you can already get in this patch)

tough hornet
regal agate
#

i alternatively get the ids in game via console or addons that add it to the item tooltip
(helps a lot if multiple versions of a item exist)

image.png
regal agate
#

it is also just a regular text file, i safe it as makefile usually to open it by default with my advanced text editor.
(typically rename it to .txt before posting, but sometimes forget)

regal agate
nimble dust
#

the eranog ring ilvl replacement is for mythic version correct? if we didnt get lucky with one and have heroic verison, what ilvl do we think will replace it at?

regal agate
nimble dust
#

Thanks Fuu

regal agate
soft sorrel
#

what's an APL ?

willow pecan
#

Standing for "Action Priority List"
It's a set of commands which the simulation will try to execute in order

vital anchor
regal agate
#

I cleaned up and updated my Season 2 gear lists.
They should include all potential relevant raid/mythic+/crafted gear options.

You can copy/paste the lists directly under your /simc in top gear.
Season 2 gear won't show on raidbots before 10.1 release/update and Dropoptimizer

Item levels of gear is set to the highest possible on each piece.
All items on the list come with empty sockets.

The list is split in two because using both lists at the same time can lag out raidbots (the crafted gear list alone already does that)

regal agate
#

One note. The gear lists include Igneous Flowstone and this option sims very strong (on subtlety/outlaw) but it seems that ptr hotfixes remove the ability to proc it. It is still on the list in case we find a method to trigger it reliably.

oak thunder
#

hey, quick question, season 2 tier set are not implemented in the sims yet, is this true for all classes?

regal agate
#

depends on the class, but i assume most sets are implemented.
Rogue sets still have bugs too

oak thunder
#

Im just wondering, how accurate is our idea of what is going to be strong next season

regal agate
#

the outlaw tier set is quite buggy, solo keeps track of the bugs in the pin:
#outlaw message
There are questions to the intended behaviour

#

some specs like #subtlety and #assassination have simulations that modify existing spells to emulate the tier set.
So both will be not perfectly representative but give a rough direction.

#

tier set implementation hopefully come soon, and will at least for the non buggy parts solve this

finite sparrow
#

It's exactly as it says, our preliminary sims show that HO and KIR builds can be of similar performance, but it is before the tier set is implemented. The rotation for KIR has also not been brushed up on for several months, it's likely we find some small gains there.

oak thunder
#

interesting

#

thank you very much guys, really appreciate it ❤️

stray bolt
regal agate
#

toxic boots trigger it to my knowlage, unless hotfixed

short fulcrum
#

seems i was able to proc it on sin without any embellishments on ptr

regal agate
#

flowstone?

short fulcrum
#

yea

regal agate
#

would be good to know what triggered it

#

if you find out, let me know

short fulcrum
#

i can try to figure it out

#

cause the tooltip just says harmful spells and abilities not just ranged attacks

regal agate
#

the only known thing to trigger it was toxic boots, but i haven't tested sin in detail

short fulcrum
#

so ill see if i can figure it out

olive lion
#

I think it might be poison bomb

short fulcrum
#

i used envenom and it started the stacking to proc the trinket

#

might be poison bomb like scana said

#

yea

olive lion
#

yea its for sure poison bomb

short fulcrum
#

seems like poision bomb

short fulcrum
twilit granite
#

Whats the difference between:

actions.stealth_cds+=/shadow_dance,if=energy>=85&!talent.keep_it_rolling&etc```
and
```actions.stealth_cds+=/pool_resource,for_next=1,extra_amount=85
actions.stealth_cds+=/shadow_dance,if=!talent.keep_it_rolling&etc```
regal agate
#

i think the next condition needs a energy check if you use pool

twilit granite
#

Without an energy condition

regal agate
frigid vapor
#

the second sentence being default behavior it won't cast a spell it doesn't have the energy for

#

Here are 3 snippets from feral apl (it's just what I'm familiar with) with slightly different meaning.

wait means you pause until a specific condition is met. For instance, wait 2 seconds. Or in this example, wait until 5 combo points.

pool for next in the primal wrath line means we are going to pool energy until we can cast primal wrath, assuming it's conditions are met. (Primal wrath is in pandemic for example) bad brain moment, omit this

pool_resource without for_next=1 pools energy while the specified condition is met. In this case, until rake can be casted or there's a clearcasting proc. Now that I think about it, that line could be simplified with for_next=1 but oh well

Screenshot_20230502-051748_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20230502-051656_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20230502-051617_Chrome.jpg
#

and as i said before, if no conditions are met due to a lack of energy, then the sim will pool until it can cast something without these lines

#

(the simplified line would be something like:
pool_resource,for_next=1,if=!buff.clearcasting.react)
bad brain moment. !action.rake.ready is the same as for_next=1, I would still need the conditions in order to only pool when I would actually intend to rake

frigid vapor
twilit granite
frigid vapor
#

well u can either do extra_amount or if=energy>=85 (or both) bad brain moment. Extra_amount required since the energy in that line isn't innate to the shadow dance

twilit granite
#

Yeah but is there any situation where both are needed?

frigid vapor
#

nah, cuz you're always checking the next line anyway with for_next=1

twilit granite
#

I guess if for whatever reason you need an amount of energy different of the cost of the next action

#

well but you could fix that with extra_amount

#

so in the end, if=energy>=85 is independent of pool_resource

frigid vapor
#

Doesn't hurt to have both /shrug won't even notice it performance wise

frigid vapor
twilit granite
#

Yeah I mean we thought it was a requirement for pool_resource

frigid vapor
#

yea you need some sort of energy requirement, bt default it's the energy of the spell

#

Actually now that I think about it, extra_amount is definitely required so it knows what to pool to

#

Cuz shadow dance costs no energy

#

I totally read the 2nd line wrong

twilit granite
#

But the energy>=85 is unnecessary

frigid vapor
#

I shouldn't be answering questions this late at night lol

twilit granite
#

Look at the second example

frigid vapor
#

It's just this

twilit granite
#

its exactly what I wrote above

#

that energy requirement is something related to shadow_dance itself rathen than pooling_resource

#

the energy>=85 thing

frigid vapor
#

yea

twilit granite
#

that was it, was driving me crazy lol

quiet hound
#

i assume you dont need the energy condition for the dance line .. having pool_resource in front with the for_next and extra_amount set, adds that condition to the action execution

frigid vapor
#

you wouldn't since you're gonna be meeting that requirement anyway from pooling

#

Yea honestly the wiki has the answer to most questions for simc

twilit granite
#

Yeah that's what I usually use

#

Anyway i think the second example is a bit confusing

#

as written there

frigid vapor
#

well the stuff I did in feral apl is vindicated at least, my brain is just mush

regal agate
#

forgot to add stats to the engineering helm, so
Crafted Gear List:

📎 message.txt
odd mist
#

How can i sim to make it use a specific ability as a spender?

regal agate
#

you need to change the action priority list

odd mist
#

Wheres that at?

#

Priority_rotation?

regal agate
#

you find it in the profile section of a sim

#

priority_rotation is just a parameter you can set to make subtlety focus on damage to the main target

odd mist
#

You’re awesome!

twilit granite
#

Looks cool

quiet hound
#

judging by the icon bottom right i'd say its obs

twilit granite
#

with obs

quiet hound
#

are you recording in 4k or something 3 screens?

twilit granite
#

No

#

2k

noble pendant
#

Lower the quality

regal agate
hidden gorge
#

How does Alchemy's Decayolgy talent interact with Iced Phial of Corrupting Rage? do you receive less damage per tick of the debuff from the phial? Does it. reduce the damage taken increase effect?

noble pendant
hidden gorge
#

Gotcha

hidden gorge
proven sparrow
#

Only that one yes

hidden gorge
#

If so, wouldn't that mean it's a DPS increase? As in a sandbox environment where that is the only damage you take, you're taking 400% of your HP less often? It's my understanding you lose the crit buff while you are in the Corrupting Rage part of the Phial cycle. Meaning, Decayology increases the uptime of the phial positive effect?

proven sparrow
#

Not the overwhelming one, which is the one that procs

proven sparrow
#

For example on kurog youre looking at around 50% uptime

#

And about 20% increased damage taken in total, its horrendous

noble pendant
#

I'm fairly certain the damage from the phial doesn't count towards the damage taken effect from the phial itself

#

but the phial is awful post 10.1 anyways

hidden gorge
#

assuming that it does count ALL damage, including the phial damage, my theory sounds correct right?

noble pendant
#

because of the changes eleem mentioned

proven sparrow
noble pendant
#

it would be marginal at best

#

but it would technically be better

proven sparrow
#

For some reason speccing those points also seem to reduce the damage of the overwhelming proc by like 15%, and i cant for the life of me figure out why

hidden gorge
#

Yeah, definitely minor, a friend mentioned the change was technically a buff to Alchemy in relation to player power, wanted to ask someone else to confirm

proven sparrow
#

Also worth noting that the damage you take scale with both parts of vers. IE 1% of vers makes you take ~0.5% more damage from the phial, because it makes you do 1% more damage and then it removes 0.5% of it (rounded)

#

Which isnt great

hidden gorge
#

I'm playing a Prevoker where Alchemy outright provides player power via Lifebind, healing potion increase via Potion spec, so was interesting to hear there is another occurence of this as of 10.1

glacial sand
#

Is there code we can add (or maybe options I missed?) on raidbots to sim all variants of the onyx annulet for a specific character?

noble pendant
#

You’d have to make fake copies of the ring and change the gem_id’s by hand

#

I don’t have my copypasta handy

glacial sand
#

Alright np, ty for confirming 🙂

noble pendant
#

But basically every combo that isn’t desirous blood + twilight is instantly bad, and any third stone not called freezing ice or storm infused is also instantly bad

#

So that should limit your combos pretty heavily

lucid helm
hasty parrot
#

Does anybody know what the strict=1 variable does here?

twilit granite
#

Yeah

hasty parrot
stray bolt
#

how to check the poisoned edges buff in APL? buff.poisoned_edges.up seems not the one?

regal agate
#

buff.poisoned_edges.remains should work

stray bolt
#

gained a bit from sepsis

#

can be possibly further optimized if consider fight time

regal agate
#

(just compared it to baseline with 100k iterations to see how big the gain was)

stray bolt
#

maybe only a little better for short fight where uses of dm and sepsis are close. for long fight, not to cast sepsis on cd would be more loss of sepsis uses.

#

The other thought is to adjust the cast time point of sepsis so that more sync with poisoned edges could happen and not lose sepsis casts.

noble pendant
#

do not make sepsis a thing I beg

karmic pewter
#

as in before/after

noble pendant
#

yes

regal agate
noble pendant
#

it's the most cursed fucking timings

regal agate
#

only 0.6-0.7% dps

noble pendant
#

I have ever seen

reef latch
#

get cooking whispyr

#

🙂

noble pendant
#

nah nah nah nah nah

#

if you hold sepsis till after deathmark

regal agate
#

this build

image.png
noble pendant
#

then it comes up with deathmark

#

so you gotta hold again

#

sepsis needs to go

regal agate
#

monkahmm so you say

noble pendant
#

1:30 with clipping imp gar

regal agate
#

we might have apl improvements

noble pendant
#

is not it

#

fuck the APL

#

the gameplay is ass

reef latch
#

Deathmark into exsang when DM drops sepsis.
kekw

wild marlin
light void
#

we know that already

#

do it!

regal agate
#

please keep the tc channel(s) to simulation topics, we have the discussion channels for regular discussions

light void
regal agate
#

the sim has the correct behaviour

light void
#

so you mean its basically just bugged ingame

#

or that it now behaves as ingame

regal agate
#

it means, the bug(s) with wm are implemented in simc

light void
#

ah alright. was it anything impressive?

regal agate
#

we should move the discussion to the spec channel, the damage impact of it was fairly low

#

it did lead to marginal higher symbols uptime (~3% higher) but with the implementation change is now reflcted and as a result lower in the simulation.

sage garden
#

How do I add toxic patch with gear compare

fluid drum
#

There should be an embellishment slot. It won’t show if you have two up though with whatever gear is set up for those so you need to put the slots that have them with items that don’t.

regal agate
sage garden
knotty oriole
#

Request for anyone who happens to see it--
Does anyone have the crafted thorns boots who could see if Crimson Vial procs the heal when SnD or Stealth is **not **active. (e.g. just standing there other than Crimson Vial.) May take a few attempts to confirm, but would be useful information.

heavy stream
brave flint
#

Heroic ilvl omnitoken simc string:

hands=,id=202498,ilevel=431

legs=,id=202496,ilevel=431

chest=,id=202500,ilevel=434

shoulder=,id=202495,ilevel=437

head=,id=202497,ilevel=434

just put it below your /simc in topgear, couldn't find if it had been posted before

knotty oriole
odd mist
#

Is it possible to download raidbots for offline use?

raw knoll
odd mist
#

Thank you

noble pendant
#

so you'd have to do that yourself

thorny fog
#

there used to be some addons that did permutations if you can find those

#

and generate a string for simc

regal agate
#

Chromatic Essence:
Put the below text in advaced sim below your /simc.

copy="Ominous Chromatic Essence (Obsidian/All)"
trinket1=,id=203729,ilevel=441
dragonflight.ominous_chromatic_essence_dragonflight=obsidian
dragonflight.ominous_chromatic_essence_allies=obsidian/emerald/bronze/azure/ruby

copy="Ominous Chromatic Essence (Ruby/Versatility)"
trinket1=,id=203729,ilevel=441
dragonflight.ominous_chromatic_essence_dragonflight=ruby
dragonflight.ominous_chromatic_essence_allies=obsidian/emerald/bronze/azure/ruby

copy="Ominous Chromatic Essence (Bronze/Haste)"
trinket1=,id=203729,ilevel=441
dragonflight.ominous_chromatic_essence_dragonflight=bronze
dragonflight.ominous_chromatic_essence_allies=obsidian/emerald/bronze/azure/ruby

copy="Ominous Chromatic Essence (Azure/Mastery)"
trinket1=,id=203729,ilevel=441
dragonflight.ominous_chromatic_essence_dragonflight=azure
dragonflight.ominous_chromatic_essence_allies=obsidian/emerald/bronze/azure/ruby

copy="Ominous Chromatic Essence (Emerald/Critical Strike)"
trinket1=,id=203729,ilevel=441
dragonflight.ominous_chromatic_essence_dragonflight=emerald
dragonflight.ominous_chromatic_essence_allies=obsidian/emerald/bronze/azure/ruby```
regal agate
crude charm
#

I just found out that when you extend Rupture's duration while under the effects of Finality: Rupture the increased damage applies to the entire DoT including the grandfather'd duration. Has anyone looked into this?

#

At the very least it should be noted that a finality-buffed Rupture should almost never be refreshed super early.

golden briar
#

it's been a known interaction since legion

west prism
#

1 tick of 30% dmg?

crude charm
#

Known interaction or not I don't think the sarcasm is warranted. The mechanic is not mentioned in any guide I've seen and by my math optimal use is equivalent to buffing Rupture's damage by 4.5%.

golden briar
#

it is not mentioned because the interaction is obvious from the tooltip and there is even a command !rupture in the sub channel that highlights how to play around finality

regal agate
#

subtlety has 2 spells that snapshot:
Finality: rupture - snapshots for the entire duration of rupture
Cold blood on secret technique - makes all 3 parts of the attack critical

desert magnet
#

How can I sim toxifies armor patch with top gear

noble pendant
#

Crafted gear has a little +, you can add a patch from there

desert magnet
#

Do I need it in my bags then?

noble pendant
#

You can add the crafted gear using fuu’s message slightly above

#

Tells you how to add all the crafted gear

maiden cargo
regal agate
#

this means garrote, rupture, sepsis, bone spike etc.
But there are some inconsistencies with it

half idol
#

Nightly build seems flawed somehow. Sims 5k less then yesterday for sub.

regal agate
#

it is because the vanish bug for bomb dispenser was implemented (assuming dungeon slice)

half idol
#

Nope patchwork

regal agate
#

oh, i saw it in #subtlety, it seems that a change we did to the sim is causing the problem

#

possibly a problem in the application/refresh behaviour of symbols

tame nymph
#

from what I see in the html report, Subtlety 2set and 4set aren't being called at any point so all the actors are assuming they don't exist within the sim. I could be misreading this though.

#

I see a symbols of death conditional that triggers if t30_2pc exists, but nowhere else do I see the t30 set actually being called if equipped.

viral mist
#

Looks like the sub profile is missing lots of usage when not looking at boss creatures. Perhaps a line to use it when time to die for any target effected is low or any target is at 4 stacks

regal agate
#

there is no specific handling for the trinket, this is why it uses the default behaviour (means, on cooldown more or less)

void estuary
#

I also think Mark of Dargrul is simming incorrectly in AoE / DSlice

#

when hitting multiple targets, the damage doesn't have the normal extra target scaling, it's splitting the damage totally evenly and not increasing with extra targets

#

one hit, non crit, for 31.6k on ST dummy

#

vs 1 proc, 5 hits, 3 normal hits for 10k each + 2 crits for 20k each

#

on the cleave dummies

terse wyvern
#

not sure if this is the right spot but, fyi slimy expulsion boots were not simming the haste loss downside

#

fixed a few minutes ago

noble pendant
#

That shit still procs the heal off of random junk

strong gorge
indigo mist
#

for firelands trinkets at 437 if interested: #trinket1=matrix_restabilizer,id=68994,bonus_id=9055,ilevel=437 #trinket1=vessel_of_acceleration,id=68995,ilevel=437 #trinket1=variable_pulse_lightning_capacitor,id=68925,ilevel=437 #trinket1=the_hungerer,id=68927,ilevel=437 #trinket1=apparatus_of_khazgoroth,id=68972,ilevel=437 #trinket1=necromantic_focus,id=68982,ilevel=437

void estuary
#

yeah nah scratch that. must have had a few unlucky runs or something

dim scarab
#

do we know what was "incorrect" on slimy expulsion boot, was it adding haste instead of removing it. or was it just doing nothing to haste, or was it simming higher damage proc?,
because i did some test, and 120 haste should only result in 200 dps loss for me, not the newly sim of 800

#

to simulate 120 haste, i added 2 socket with 65 haste on a gear set with open slot

strong gorge
#

When the effect procs, it reduce your haste.
To simplify. When the proc occurs. The sims reduce your haste by a value.
This value is taken from the spell data of the spell that the boots have.
Coated in Slime (id=378423)

This spell has 3 different effect id's. The issue was that the effect ID to query to get how much haste you lost is #2. And in simc it was faulty using the value from #1. Which doesn't have any value that says anything.

Which means that the sims applied the negative haste, but without a value. Now it applies the correct negative haste value

tribal bane
dim scarab
#

OO true it double all effect

#

so id need to test 240 and not 120

#

makes more sens, im getting value between 620-650 lost for 3x 88 haste, so 264

#

but if we lose haste only when it proc, shouldnt the sim be lower then a 800 diff?

worthy cape
#

doesn't look like you only lose haste on proc, I lose haste in character sheet just for equipping

dim scarab
#

sims shows 100% uptime on corrosive, but in real log thats not the case

tribal bane
#

I think Rosvall meant proc as in literally equipping the item and thus procing the reduce haste. But yeah I'm pretty certain the reduced haste is not linked to the damage proc

dim scarab
#

i lose 240 haste by equipping

mystic cobalt
#

are you counting the effect of patch, I assume it amplifies the downside too

dim scarab
#

it does

mystic cobalt
#

if you have it

worthy cape
#

it does

dim scarab
#

its x2

worthy cape
#

-238 haste

dim scarab
#

proccing the boot doesnt change my haste

#

so its 100% of the time

#

as soon as equipped

#

is the sim removing too much?

strong gorge
#

Sorry I didn't mean proc as in having the aura deal damage, but having it applied

#

When you put on the boots, you get affected by the aura called Coated in Slime. This aura passively reduce your haste. But also allows for you to trigger Corrosive Slime (id=378426) - This is the effect that deals nature damage to the enemy.
That part was untouched. It was only player stat from the 378423 that was wrong

strong gorge
viscid oracle
brave flint
#

fuck sake it's taken my haste :^)

02a716fa75cc8eafa64710e958307fa7.png
dim scarab
stray bolt
strong gorge
#

Lament, do you have the boots available?

stray bolt
#

yes

#

I tested it with the tank dummy

#

it makes me perma combat

#

without SnD it does not proc

strong gorge
#

At some point, could you test speccing into Recuperation and see if it still procs heals from SnD?

stray bolt
#

With SnD it proc heal

strong gorge
#

It's the talent before ER in the class tree. Middle section towards bottom

stray bolt
#

My test was without Recup

strong gorge
#

Yeah. Wanted to know if Recup would make SnD not proc it

stray bolt
#

You want to see if it proc if Recup is active?

#

sure, in a minute

strong gorge
#

Since Assassination seems to proc it a lot less. And the main difference I can see is that assa runs recup.

stray bolt
strong gorge
#

Well, you got a proc with it?