creator_dlc_discussion

[sinful cape]

yeah, that's what i mean -- can BI not add it? 😄

is there a ticket for that?

[tepid lance]

I think it was part of a list of engine fixes we would have liked for the 1.0 release that we wrote back in 2018... its a long time ago now 😄

Remember that we had to release it without any engine coding support, what was in release is what we had to work with.

[devout turtle]

Yeah we all got so little support. Some big heroes came along since. But always so limited in resource.

[steady ravine]

Moist

[devout turtle]

You are? Me too.

[ashen belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/moist-tongue-wtf-gif-9227697

[restive thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/moist-cowboy-gif-24778211

[hallow parrot]

Thousands of thousands of times. And only answer is just No

[pastel pendant]

idk, i think he's the first one to bring this up

[grave osprey]

Just buy the CDLCs and click on them in the launcher. Don’t be lazy 😂

[light sluice]

... and greedy.

[grave osprey]

If they don't everything from BI then they're not real arma players 😛

Just pay the $10-$20

[sinful cape]

how many mods does your unit use?

i wrote about it already in the past-- so many players use like hundreds of mods, and they have no issue with that. but when it comes to loading compatibility data for cdlc.. suddenly it's an issue.

make it make sense

[prime hollow]

B R O K E ! 🗿🗿🗿

[pastel pendant]

i have a way more acid theory, i've shared it once here and it was deleted, i think its too acid for most 🗿🚬

[prime hollow]

uh yeah It's a dlc

[devout turtle]

What a strange concept - having to pay people to make games for you! Hehe

People should just bring me a next gen pc, and a 7 foot curved screen, and a real F4 pilots seat with a buttkicker, and 10 giant lava lamps, and all the games i want to play, and an in and out burger franchise built onto the side of my house that has a hatch so they can give me free awesome burgers any time im hungry, and a HB hofbrau bierkeller on the other side, with attractive girls in lederhosen to deliver steins of frothy ice cold pilsner or kolsch every 30 minutes while im playing all these free games. Who’s in?

[devout turtle]

nice one stack, i'll invite you over as soon as all my free stuff arrives 🙂

[karmic harness]

Yay! Eagerly awaiting that delivery of yours! 🥳

[steady ravine]

Unless it's coming out of Marek Spanel's mouth, then nothing changed.

[tired wave]

You might want to check out rule 3 of the #rules

[steady nest]

It seems as if all the complaining/technical feasibility/loss of knowledge is part of why Enfusion happened...

[near magnet]

This I'd a weird question but will there be CDLCs for ARMA 4?

I'm personally hoping for a SOG port.

[hallow parrot]

Very unlikely. At least at this point, especially if we have no exact info about Arma 4

[sinful cape]

the tl;dr is -- nobody knows

[tepid lance]

Lets wait and see for Arma 4 first.

[near magnet]

That's a shame. It would be awesome. I'd be down to pay again.

[olive vortex]

Currently, we (SGD) have no interest in A4 even if it would have CDLC program, for sure not with terms similar to one we had in A3. So SOG "port" is quite unlikely. (more info on our discord #839818528685424660 message )

We'll support A3 for years to come via our Nickel Steel mod tho.

[devout turtle]

Absolutely. To play future SOG games you’ll need to follow us as we migrate away from Arma. We all enjoy playing Arma, and will likely play A4, but no commercial interest any more.

Our next SOG game is going to be a standalone unreal 5 game.

With single player and co-op

[spiral wasp]

I was wondering if anyone else has encountered an issue where you unload a CDLC at the dashboard, play ARMA 3 then exit. And at the next startup the CDLC is loaded again. This is occurring at every start up, the CDLC (Prairie Fire to be precise) is loaded even though it was left unloaded at the last play. Anyone have a suggestion where to look for some setting to "turn this feature off"? Thanks.

[olive vortex]

check mods param in the launcher

[spiral wasp]

Did that, not checked.

[random crane]

could it be that the launcher crashes and doesn't save the settings you changed so it reverts to that dlc being selected?

just throwing ideas around

i've never had this issue

[devout turtle]

Or Alt-f4 exit from the game

[spiral wasp]

I wonder, is there perhaps a log that would detail that? I am not the one having the issue, a friend who plays on my 6 man server is. He is the only one having the issue. He is very new to ARMA and I am just trying to help him ouy.

[devout turtle]

That doesn’t save settings

[spiral wasp]

*out

[spiral wasp]

I will sugest he try that

[devout turtle]

No. I mean if you alt f4 instead of menu close/ shutdown, it will not remember your settings.

Most likely he has sog dlc enabled in the dlc tab or in the mods tab or command line in params tab

And doesnt know how to check it

As he’s new

[spiral wasp]

I see. I have had him share his screen on discord to check those issues and it all seems legit

[devout turtle]

Well something isn’t or else he’d have no issue

[spiral wasp]

Right

[devout turtle]

Did he install the compat data

If he did and has that loaded, he’d see the dlc load up

[spiral wasp]

"Compat data"?

[devout turtle]

Ask him to screenshot:
Params tab
Dlc tab
Mods tab

And post them

Also does he use a desktop shortcut for a3? And if so screenshot the properties window of that shortcut

These are the 4 main ways to load the dlc

[spiral wasp]

I certainly can when he comes back on, but I had him stream his screen and walked through all of those areas just to check. It is all configured like I have mine set up and I have no issue. He loads from steam library, to the dashboard, to the game. Sometimes we run ARMA 3 sometimes S.O.G.

[devout turtle]

Windows snipping tool is great for this

[spiral wasp]

Okay

ShareX works well also

[devout turtle]

If he closes the a3 launcher / steam in any way that is not normal, then a3 wont recall the last known setup

E.g i regularly use alt f4, which doesnt save last known server, or last mod load etc

So usually i click my preset in the launcher and go to game. Zero issues

[spiral wasp]

I will definitely ask how he shuts down, as I have not asked that yet. It did not occur to me that he may be shutting down in some other way.

[devout turtle]

-mod=vn will load the dlc or its compat data

So if thats in his shortcut cmd line, or in the params tab under mod checkbox, that will always load the dlc even if he deselects it in mods or dlc tabs

[spiral wasp]

Cool. I appreciate your taking the time to offer some assistance. Thank you.

[devout turtle]

He may have the compat data installed - which is a steam workshop free mod we publish that allows the dlc to be loaded without buying it. If he tried that before, and left it loaded, as a mod, it would always load even if he unchecked the dlc

[spiral wasp]

No, he has the full DLC loaded

[devout turtle]

Well it appears exactly like having the full dlc loaded

So this is why i listed all the screens to screenshot

To rule out any of those options

[spiral wasp]

I see.

[devout turtle]

I think one other, is even in cmd line entry in steam app itself

I havent used that for years, but i think it is still there - in properties part of arma 3 in steam app

As he’s new he may have followed a tutorial or advice from someone and set up a cmd and not realised/ remembered where it is

[spiral wasp]

I will certainly recheck those. It sounds as if you are describing it loading the data even if the CDLC box is unchecked. What he is experiencing is every time he loads the game and checks the DLC page on the dashboard the SOG CDLC is loaded.

[devout turtle]

So there are about 5 ways to achieve what he’s seeing

Terminology - steam app / a3 launcher / a3 game - try to stick to that

Those are the three programs. And each has pages or tabs inside

Your para above is vague

[spiral wasp]

Sure man. I am calling it 'dashboard' because I am trying to help a couple new guys and 'dashboard' is the first word in the list.

[spiral wasp]

On the a3 launcher page there is a DLC tab where you load DLC. When he starts the game on this tab, the S.O.G. Prairie Fire box is checked and the DLC is loaded, even though he unchecked and unloaded it the last game. I apologize for being vague and using incorrect terminology.

[devout turtle]

It’s all good. Just setting some useful terms so we dont get our wires crossed

So he opens arma 3 launcher and the dlc tab option is always checked ?

[spiral wasp]

Correct. Your suggestion that he may be shutting it down in an unconventional way leading to it resetting to having the DLC checked makes sense and I will ask him about it.

[devout turtle]

He could try unloading the dlc and then closing the launcher - without launching the game at all

Then open the launcher and see if it is loaded still

There are about 5 ways to force the game to load the dlc

[spiral wasp]

I will suggest he try that.

[devout turtle]

And also if he alt tabs and the game crashes, thats a known bug, it will not save his prefs afaik

[spiral wasp]

Roger

[devout turtle]

Playing in windowed fullscreen prevents that ctd bug

A3 is way easier to use and manage than A2 was. This should be an easy fix

[spiral wasp]

Hope so. Thanks again for your help.

[devout turtle]

Bohemia is running a 25th Anniversary Sale.
S.O.G. Prairie Fire is 40% off.
Moreover there is a sale-exclusive bundle called:
Arma 3 Creator Pack.
https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/44408/Arma_3_Creator_Pack/
You can get all the Arma 3 CDLC's at an** additional 20% off** their current sale prices!
It's a great week to finish your Arma collecting or gift your friends the whole CDLC ecosystem in one go.

[hallow parrot]

New channel time @hearty arrow

[random crane]

👀

[loud apex]

I knew it !

🙌

[olive vortex]

[uncut escarp]

Gonna need a new channel for the Expeditionary Forces that's for sure, as well I'm in

[red saddle]

https://arma3.com/news/arma-3-creator-dlc-expeditionary-forces-is-coming-soon

[plush quest]

Congrats on the announcement folks! ⛴️

[random crane]

thanks! so excited!

[olive vortex]

it was an interesting journey, can't wait for players to get their hands on it!

[fossil gazelle]

Really looking forward to this 1 😁 Congratulations "Expeditionary Forced" team with the official announcement for release 🥳

[knotty ore]

congratulations!!!

[devout turtle]

looks really good. great logic to the expansion, and the weapons systems.

[random crane]

could we get a channel here? 👀

[pearl spade]

Is there a dedicated discord server for the upcoming EF CDLC?

[random crane]

https://discord.gg/eMF78KxPrQ

here you go 🙂

[near magnet]

This might be a weird question, but the helicopter in the Expeditionary forces DLC sounds almost identical to the Sea Comanche from the USS Cunningham series. Was any inspiration taken or is that a coincidence?

[random crane]

no, never heard of that game

the radome on top was inspired by some pictures of a comanche in a museum

and the side pods were inspired by the supercobra, with the flare dispenser pods on top of the wings and sidearm missiles

[near magnet]

Oh no, it's a book series. It is a sensible direction to go, so I guess that's why you guys and the author had the same ideas for it.

It's a really cool design

You knocked it out of the park, definitely a day 1 buy for me.

[random crane]

thanks 🙏

[timid flint]

Sadly, no invite for me. I loved working on Spearhead and earned my place in the credits. ^^ I hope Expeditionary Forces makes a good impression on the testers.

[olive vortex]

@serene gyro I recognize this guy, he finds bugs in everything. Where's his key

[random crane]

have you checked the spam folder? some people said their invite was flagged

[olive vortex]

ye, it happens with BI emails.

[timid flint]

A few friends also had that and after that i checked all folders but have Not found anything. Will search again once im on my pc again.

[torpid quest]

No channel for expeditionary forces??

Now that we have reaction forces and expeditionary forces, what sort of forces will we have next

[steady nest]

FWIW in past years people have asked for a stub wing variant on the AH-99, especially since the Jets DLC/1.70 platform update which finally modeled the 'internal bays only' difference

[fossil gazelle]

It was also in my spambox this time 😟

[near magnet]

TIL. I wasn't actually active in the ARMA community back then. I just remembered that there was a mod that added a more heavily armed AH-99 and that was the only exposure I had to it.

[random crane]

@hearty arrow can we have our own channel please?

[fossil gazelle]

I think Dwarden is AFK, maybe @noble nymph can help out 😬

[noble nymph]

No ability to make channels.

[steady ravine]

any Icon for EF yet?

[random crane]

hmmm not sure if i can upload it here, im guessing its for the custom emoji? 😄

[steady nest]

I notice that the Titan-NLOS range' is basically-all-of-the-Altis-terrain 😂

[golden cloak]

Airborne Forces? lol

[torpid quest]

ooh that's a good one

[golden cloak]

hehe

fixed-wing airlifters & airborne armoured fighting vehicles

[random crane]

transparent background

[steady ravine]

neat

[random crane]

colored background

[celest panther]

So whats the aav9 based on

[celest panther]

South korea 2035

[golden cloak]

maybe something like an airborne IFV/APC & airborne light tank or tank destroyer.

[celest panther]

Idk why but it reminds me of russian stuff

[golden cloak]

yeah Russia and PLA have these

[olive vortex]

Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expeditionary_Fighting_Vehicle

[random crane]

^

[celest panther]

Oh niceee

[olive vortex]

it's a nice beast

[golden cloak]

though the US had the M8

[random crane]

?

[golden cloak]

M8 AGS

[mild solstice]

Never bought. Most recently lost to the M10 Booker. And it was for the Army not the Marines

[golden cloak]

I’m referring to this
#creator_dlc_discussion message

So I suggested Airborne Forces lol

is there any discord for EF though?

[near magnet]

Ngl the Rhino MGS would suit air deployment pretty well.

[golden cloak]

could do Police Forces too and do law enforcement missions/scenarios lmao

[near magnet]

Though if there is an airborne CDLC I won't say no to a new tank.

[golden cloak]

Same lol

[timid flint]

Yeah checked again could not find anything.

[near magnet]

I had a semi amphibious 2035 campaign going lol So I might add this to the next few missions. It came at the perfect time lmao

[hearty arrow]

#expeditionary_forces

[random crane]

thanks!

[near magnet]

I wonder how much staying power ARMA 3 will have with all the content from DLCs and CDLCs. Especially after ARMA 4's release.

[knotty ore]

some years easy

[sinful cape]

there will always be someone coming back to it

[steady nest]

Depends on how smoothly the A4 content creation pipeline goes... it took years for A3 to comprehensively supersede A2 in that regard, and Reforger's lack of an in-game Editor (as opposed to the out-of-game, PC-exclusive World Editor) means that we don't know what A4 scenario generation will be like

[devout turtle]

We’ll keep adding content to SOG Nickel Steel for a few years yet, so SOG PF should have a decent shelf life.

The BI pipeline is kinda clogged with content, which causes a lot of delays releasing content, but it’s a good thing as it means there’s plenty to keep players interested

We made the right call going to a mod I think.

We should have a fairly solid playable of the standalone SOG Out of Shadow game by the time A4 drops.

Im loving my new Quest 3 rn and considering how we develop VR capabilities for the new game too. Creeping about in photo real forest with NVA voices a few bushes away, leeches hanging off leaves and tripwires and punji traps at your feet… and the deafening sound of insects and mosquito clouds…

Napalming hundreds of charging enemies and blowing a wall of human torches into fragments with a line of claymores…

Next gen gaming is gonna be really something else.

Once we get there, older games probably won’t stack up at all.

[pastel pendant]

very dehumanizing

[devout turtle]

Indeed. That’s war.
We play war games.

10,000 NVA tried to kill Lynne Black and his 6 man team on October 5 1968.
After building a fortress from their cadavers, and eventually getting the team out, 9,000 NVA lay dead.

This is the reality of war.

[pastel pendant]

rob, one thing is to recognise death as part of war and war as part of our history, another is over-glorifying war and using death as a means of marketing for a entertainment product

its more than a fine line separating both, its a very visible border

[devout turtle]

We aim to tell the stories as they are. Judge it how you will.

[rich mist]

Honestly really brave of the south vietnamese to risk their lives joining MACV-SOG like that.

[uncut escarp]

Depending on how it goes, I may stick with A3 for longer, but who knows depending on how A4 turns out

[sinful cape]

a4 is so far away, no point in thinking about it right now

[uncut escarp]

This is true

[devout turtle]

Absolutely. We count many of the surviving men as friends. Their resistance was being lost to history, and our work is aimed at restoring this.

[spice jackal]

Will any problems arise if players on a vanilla multilayer (i.e. no pre-placed CDLC content) use cDLC equipment alongside players without the cDLC?

[sweet edge]

server has to be run with cdlc and non-owners need to load the respective compat data mod, then there will be no issues

[spice jackal]

Ah, that's inconvenient. Thanks Honger 😄

[steady nest]

Ehhhh, that just means that it's not-quite-vanilla

[spice jackal]

True, but players without APEX can join not-quite-vanilla servers just fine, just can't use the equipment without a watermark. Shame it doesn't work like that with the cDLC that expand on the 2035 Armaverse

[wraith sleet]

The apex stuff is still in the game when apex isn’t loaded though. In the scenario you described, there would probably be naked men with finger guns running around if the server let non-owners connect without the compatibility mod

[ashen geyser]

You can do that with the compatibility patches, as long as the server isn't running a CDLC terrain

[young geyser]

If by some miracle there is a RHS inspired CDLC in the works (in secret of course), please consider the content of the 3CB factions mod (complement mod to RHS) vehicles as inspiration too as both combined (RHS + 3CB) is the most comprehensive and quality content available for A3 on that scale

[pastel pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/benny-fallout-fallout-new-vegas-what-in-the-goddamn-confusion-gif-24924085

[worn cape]

Everything in a CDLC needs to be fresh. You can't just package content that is available for free and then sell it. Lawyers would be having a field day

[steady nest]

This was already a situation faced with the Unsung mod due to the CDLC, however if I recall correctly this was resolved in part via a 'clearly new assets' visual quality difference

Whereas it seems that CSLA Studio got around this by just never releasing a mod in the first place...

And AFAIK the people behind GM only released one of the trucks for free, everything else was exclusive to the CDLC

[tepid lance]

Correct. The Free truck was a request from BI to us.

[young geyser]

I said RHS inspired, not RHS itself. Every asset done from scratch or revamped enough that the mod version becomes obsolete

[teal kindle]

We're likely to only see small scale cDLCs at this point, so if people are hoping for something like RHS, I doubt that will happen.

[steady nest]

Addendum: Unsung was actually not made obsolete because there's actually fewer assets-as-usually-called-such-in-Arma than in the Unsung mod... indeed, there's a version of Unsung that AFAIK only consists of said mod-exclusive assets, intended for use alongside the CDLC

[devout turtle]

Terrains too

We specifically focused on additional assets that wouldnt conflict with unsung too much initially and only later added certain assets that would replace unsung ones. Primarily we aimed to replace the oldest assets first.

The cobra and then the huey gunships were just so sweet to develop after years of playing with these ofp/ arma 1 models

Before we started the dlc project we had a very aggressive attempt by a guy working for Coppolla to buy unsung mod in its entirety. We mapped every original creator (of artwork) and handed them a database so they could contact everyone to buy them out. It took months to assemble. In the end we opted not to work with them and switched focus to Bohemia and an entirely separate content bundle.

I always thought it was a mad idea.

Same would apply to almost all big arma mods - so many hands touched them and always originally on the basis of non commercial use. Minefield worth avoiding.

[young geyser]

Indeed, the only option for such massive undertaking would be if BI gets directly involved somehow and it is released as a stand alone Arma like Iron Front was

A stand alone of RHS + ACE without the futura stuff and some real life map locations would sell like hot cakes for sure

[devout turtle]

The steam sub numbers dont lie for sure. The two biggest mods.

[steady nest]

As far as I know Iron Front: Liberation 1944 was outright a third-party game that BI licensed the Real Virtuality 3 engine out for, so the Iron Front for Arma 3 modders had to go to said other developers for permission to bring those assets over to A3... and this mod (Eastern Front, specifically Operation Bagration) was distinct from Spearhead 1944 (set in the vicinity of the breakout from Normandy): https://arma2.com/index.php/latest-news/arma-2-enters-world-war-ii

[frigid edge]

Coppola? Presume this would have been for the failed Apocalypse Now game?

[devout turtle]

Apparently so! Always seemed weird that a guy who owns a billion dollar wine business would raise money on kickstarter. That was a bad idea.

[hollow garden]

I wanted to see how well received, a creator dlc of WW1 would be. Like your guys opinions, if it would be cool or not

[sinful cape]

terrible choice for the arma engine

[devout turtle]

Interesting weapons and equipment, terrains (the whole planet to choose from - east africa, turkey, syria, italian alps, belgium, etc), cool planes and ships, tanks etc. cavalry (horses would be a fab innovation).

Every world faction to add. Could make a standalone based on it. Limited market appeal though. Would be a passion project

[steady nest]

And based on the above's experience... there's no telling when a WWI Creator would make back their budget

[boreal crescent]

which front? WWI is problem... i mean AI and big groups.. 😄

[hollow garden]

Something simple, Western front like Verdun or something similar

[boreal crescent]

And this is problem with map, AI, better africa or Middle East.. trenchs are problem

a lot of WW1 weapons in ArmA III exist.

and more, but AI vs. trenchs is problem

In ArmA III i saw more models , but problem, a lot of people steal models from BF1, but good idea for CDLC. development need 3-4 years for this CDLC, 5-10 members, terrain makers, model makers, animation. etc...

[tight thicket]

With the CDLC compat patches, are people able to run the maps of a DLC if they're hosted by someone who does own it?
Trying to find a way to do a SOGPF mission now that I have it but I know many of my friends don't and I don't wanna lock anyone out

I presume it works similar to the base dlc-based maps, but when I didn't own CSLA I had the option to go into the CSLA map if I ran compat patch and went into 3den, though I could be misremembering cause I only ran it once and didn't actually try to go in

[rich mist]

editor allows you but actual missions nope

[tight thicket]

Ah that's rough then

I appreciate the info

[random crane]

Maps and dlc missions proper require dlc ownership

If the server is playing any mission on a dlc map you need dlc ownership

If the server is playing a dlc mission on any map, even vanilla, you need dlc ownership as well

If you make a custom mission on a vanilla terrain but use dlc assets ownership is not required to join, but will have the regular asset restrictions

As in ads or players not being allowed to crew certain vehicles aside from passenger seats

[steady nest]

Having the Compatibility Data loaded results in more or less the same DLC limits as vanilla DLC

[knotty ore]

you could give tanoa a try or one of unsung maps

[tight thicket]

Unfortunately many don't have that dlc either

[knotty ore]

you can indeed preview the map in eden with the compatiblity data

[tight thicket]

I'm aiming for a purely free approach

[knotty ore]

same as with vanilla dlc

[tight thicket]

Ah I see

[knotty ore]

for free approach, unsung stuff could work for you

[tight thicket]

Will check it out, cheers!

[jaunty stump]

This WW1 mod slaps, honestly wouldn’t be a bad idea

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3346567234

I know it has probably been said a million times but I still don’t understand why a lot of the 2035 CDLC’s aren’t compatible with vanilla by default. A lot of the mechanics are built with vanilla in mind yet they are treated as completely separate entities. All this does it make people less likely to use these in public matches.

Like I fully get why prairie fire or spearhead would be treated as separate entities - as they are complete overhauls. But all the systems are already in place to allow for the more lore friendly CDLC’s to be integrated while still not stepping on the toes of the official DLC’s

[sinful cape]

it was indeed said a million times

[jaunty stump]

Why not just have them in the base game but have a big pop up that says ‘CDLC not official DLC’ to differentiate it

[random crane]

because BI and creator dlc teams are separate entities

BI doesnt maintain CDLCs

[warm shore]

"why don't you turn 40 gb base game dowload into 160 gb one"

[random crane]

if something were to break and they were part of the basegame someone would be responsible for fixing it

i dont even think space requirements factor in at all, archiving space these days is cheap and 2035 dlcs are light

[jaunty stump]

Sure but BI hasn’t made a DLC in over 5 years

[sweet edge]

so? DLCs still exist and they are different from CDLCs

[karmic harness]

They have a new game to create

[random crane]

this doesnt change what i just said

[jaunty stump]

I don’t see why BI doesn’t work more collaboratively with the 2035 CDLC’s as if most of the team is busy on the new game it allows for a constant stream of lore friendly additions

[sweet edge]

"as if most of the team is busy on the new game" because that's the current state of BI, you have 3 or 4 people maintaining Arma 3 now.

[random crane]

speaking from experience i think they give us the support we need

[jaunty stump]

Yeah, and entire teams working on CDLC’s

[sweet edge]

so?

[jaunty stump]

It sucks right now because all of these work so well in conjunction - Western Sahara, reaction forces and I’m assuming expeditionary forces. However in its current state it is impossible to play with these together without a dedicated community - there is no way to use these in multiplayer without a lot of preparation

[random crane]

-mod=ws;rf;

all you need to do

they behave like any mod, you load them and play with them

[jaunty stump]

But that doesnt work for official servers

[random crane]

there are official servers that support them

[jaunty stump]

That’s my point - they seem designed in a way to be as vanilla as possible yet the only way to play them is to treat them as mods

And if someone’s going through the effort of doing that they are just gonna play with mods anyway

I mean i’d be happy with official servers that run with RF and WS

[pastel pendant]

so, about that airplane food huh?

[sinful cape]

another point that nobody ever mentioned --- we have the source files, BI doesn't. if cdlc were to be integrated into the base game, we would have to share all sources + do that for every patch, etc.

it's just a hassle all around

also lots of new possible licensing issues, since we would literally have to share everything with BI, not just our finished files.

[knotty ore]

@jaunty stump next time try the search first as this topic has been gone through numerous times and it wont change.

[warm shore]

i mean, at least one of those times is himself 🤣 #creator_dlc_discussion message

[knotty ore]

😑

[wraith sleet]

A few of the official servers have RF and WS loaded. You can hop on, vote yourself admin, then type #missions in chat to change the scenario to zeus, warlords or whatever you want to play that’s on the server.

Maybe if we’re lucky EF will be compatible and there will be a server with all 3 loaded

But yeah this topic comes up ad nauseam. Beating a dead horse

Maybe I’ll put together an event with them sometime though

[ashen geyser]

There will. As much is confirmed in the tiny Gecko studios website

[random crane]

that server will be maintained by us (me), but i know for a fact BI already has servers with RF/WS loaded and EF will be added at launch too

[devout turtle]

Glad i missed all this

[devout turtle]

SOG prairie fire being used by the special ops association to promote SOG history and bring younger SOF vets to the group. Met a guy who was on Super 6-2 in Mog last night. Some amazing history here for this conference at Fort Bragg. Our team is well represented by 5 of us from RT Columbia.

All volunteers. Self funding.

Doing our bit for the cause.

[gilded turret]

IM EXCITED FOR THE MARINES OORAHH

[teal kindle]

Yes, just under a week to go now.

[vale hinge]

just came out for me

its pretty fun

[vale hinge]

i had just done the second mission, the ifv with the 50mm autocannon is an absolute beast.

also its nice to see polpox work on the dlc

[wraith sleet]

The new IFV is American propoganda and I love it

Way more armor and firepower than I exepected

[gilded turret]

OORAHHHH

W

https://tenor.com/view/marines-gif-11132393

my parents apparently dont have 8 dollars for a dlc

im crushed

[knotty ore]

got to write to Santa

🎅

[gilded turret]

i literally have 8 dollars

i was gonna give them to my mum so she could get the dlc for me

i was so excited 😭

oh it look so COOL

plus the ocd of wanting them all

[wraith sleet]

I dont see the big boat

the one on the showcase

[random crane]

its in the empty category, search for "LPD"

[wraith sleet]

hmm i havent found it

only the landing ship smoll boat

[wraith sleet]

Click the yellow thing and search static

[wraith sleet]

i only see the landing craft

not the big boat

disregard

its only eden placeable

[half kestrel]

EF https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1007661129612410900/1311109955687813160/image.png?ex=6747a9cc&is=6746584c&hm=94d669c53c3bb5baab599b6c783b0e93c8c6e84ab1197d7213c68cdafc7ccb66& compared to RF https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1007661129612410900/1311110025632022528/image.png?ex=6747a9dd&is=6746585d&hm=04913013ca399c6aecf0ed8b19f8b649f981af28cf36b9b379675746d7991bf9&

Are we dealing with the files differently or is steam depot just being funky?

[random crane]

steam depot funkyness

will be fixed sometime tomorrow

(i hope)

[woeful wasp]

"File names are encrypted. SteamDB is only able to decrypt depots if we have a decryption key."
SteamDB doesn't own the DLC hence they can't retrieve all the filenames, Its normal

[half kestrel]

Awesome, didn't know that thanks

[solid pine]

Question, where is the Expeditionary forces COMPAT?
I dont see it on the workshop?

[spice jackal]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3348605126

[restive thorn]

what CDLC should i buy first

kinda thinking GM or EF

[rich mist]

Depends on what you're looking for entirely

GM just has more of everything but if you're not that looking for a cold war setting and moreso want more to your 2035 stuff then EF could be a better pick

[sweet edge]

this is like deciding whether you would want a house or a rocket, because you're looking for something with a chair. Completely different content, even price difference is significant

[hallow parrot]

You can even try with compat file

[rich mist]

^

Compat files are great to look and decide what you want as you can access everything the CDLCs contain within the editor

[restive thorn]

i like both equally

[rich mist]

You can always just get both

If you can't afford one right now, just get it later

[restive thorn]

fair

think i might go for GM

one question about CDLCs though, is it more like installing mods where you have to do a bunch of stuff, or literally just buy and install it and it's ready to go?

[hallow parrot]

Buy, install, load, you're good to go

[rich mist]

Granted mods are also like that

You just subscribe, install, load, play

[restive thorn]

probably shoudla said this earlier but i play on mac, bunch of hoops to jump through to get a single mod ready to play

ill just trial and error it fuck it

[devout turtle]

Well mac pretty much rules out multiplayer iirc. So if you look at SOGPF dlc, you’ll want Johnnyboy’s SOGAI mod to adjust the campaign to bring in an AI team (as we don’t include friendly AI in it).

[restive thorn]

not really one for multiplayer. always found singleplayer to be more fun

[gilded turret]

i like this analogy

[rich mist]

If you want Singleplayer then Tac-Ops, Laws of War and Contact should be, imo, your first DLC picks for that within ArmA

But from the selection of both GM and EF, GM easily wins in singleplayer content

[lunar flame]

GM on sale is currently the same price as EF, EF singleplayer campaign is rather short

[devout turtle]

That’s how increasing discount increments work. They make older stuff more appealing.

[gilded turret]

my mum just bought me EF 🗣️🗣️🗣️

[gilded turret]

honestly i love the suggestion that MARPAT is still used in 2035

[grave osprey]

No reason for it not to be. It works.

[steady ravine]

M16A4 probably still in use

hec even 1903 Springfield bring it on!

[echo radish]

Is it just me or does the MXAR from EF and the MXSW from base game the same performance?

[teal kindle]

I think they are the same barrel length, so it would make sense that they have the same performance.

[echo radish]

Ah. So I am not hallucinating. Thanks. 👍

[gilded turret]

i love the new amber NVG

[misty hearth]

what does a cdlc compatibility data pack let me do

[devout turtle]

Here’s a view through white phosphor NODs.

Refreshingly not heavy green. Easy on the eyes, and you can see stuff out to 1000m pretty well (the treeline is that far in the pic i snapped with my iphone)

Amber seems like a nice colour to have too.

[devout turtle]

It lets you load up a creator dlc and browse the content in the virtual arsenal/ garage, explore the maps in the editor, and join a mp server running the dlc - but - with limitations - you can’t run or join a mission on a dlc map, you can’t start a mission in the editor using the dlc content (someone fact check me here) and you cant use dlc weapons or gear in multiplayer without getting adverts, or enter driver/ gunner seats in dlc vehicles in multiplayer. It’s a good way to try out the dlcs and decide which you might buy.

Just remember to uninstall the compat data if you enable to paid dlc.

[misty hearth]

Alr thx

[gilded turret]

it'd be cool for someone to implement them

or a coolerblueish style

[teal kindle]

There are mods that add white phosphor NODs, and it's not hard to script it either.

[sinful cape]

yea but scripted solution is always a bit janky

[devout turtle]

Are there any civilian models available i wonder. Would love a pair.

You can see so well even in pitch black

[teal kindle]

White phosphor NODs are available in the states , I don't know if they are on your side of the pond.

[dapper violet]

Almost certainly
But not cheap

[trim light]

Be about £2000+ for a PVS-14

[devout turtle]

So that helmet i had on was about $7k worth if kit 😐

[pine night]

Probably lots more!

[severe crown]

Hey guys, if I use compatibility data as a CDLC owner, will I have full access to everything? I am running low on SSD space so I'd like to move the big CDLCs to my other drive and use them as a local mod instead.

[pine night]

You sure will! It'll have the same content as having the DLC. The only thing I'm not sure on is whether you can join public servers, but I imagine that the keys are all included in the compatibility data.

You have to have purchased the DLC of course

To have full access anyway

[rich mist]

You can just use stuff like Junction Links/Symbolic Links to do that

Be aware that it will impact loading times on those assets

That is if the other drive is way slower than your arma one

[knotty ore]

dont think it works like that

[echo radish]

Is there a way to run Praire Fire as a content pack like you can run Contact?

I already own Praire Fire but when it's loaded it changes everything to Vietnam themed.

[rich mist]

Pretty sure you have the ability to just run the regular main menu when you load Praire Fire

Like on its menu

[knotty ore]

yeah there is a setting in the menu to turn the vietnam stuff off

[bleak zephyr]

IIs there a way to see the change log for the prairie fire update? Every link I click on takes me to 2021 nothing dated today Dec 10 2024.

[ebon sedge]

https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/234698-sog-prairie-fire-changelog/?do=findComment&comment=3536869

[devout turtle]

Scroll down

[bleak zephyr]

thank you

[ebon yacht]

I hope we get a csat themed dlc

Cause they feel kinda neglected

[steady ravine]

you mean something like CSAT Canada?

[ebon yacht]

?

[steady ravine]

you ask for more CSAT Themed stuff

what if it's about CSAT Canada

[ebon yacht]

Yeah but I thought Canada would be part of nato

[steady ravine]

[ebon yacht]

Woah

[civic lake]

Hi guys, if I enable Prairie Fire/Icon Curtain/Spearhead etc. will the game change like it does for Contact? Or are they like Sahara & RF and just enable the content?

[rich mist]

Contact is the only DLC that restricts you from multiplayer if that is your question

Other than that if you mean the main menu changing then Praire Fire also does this except you can disable it if you want to

[civic lake]

Okay, thank you c:

[steady ravine]

technically Spearhead also change the main menu

but in limited way than PF

[ashen geyser]

With an option to turn it off

[ebon sedge]

sog has an option to turn it off too

[ashen geyser]

Good to know I guess

I don't have SOG

[wicked pilot]

Just thought id put this out there not sure if Devs, actually come through here or not, but regarding S.O.G. Prairie fire CDLC, it'd be nice if bohemia interactive would approve of both S.O.G. PF and western Sahara even a couple others to be redone to be added to reforger of course as a purchase able option since multiple eras seem to be more popular then the base cold war era, yes I'm aware we have access to mods even on Xbox but they don't always work so well or even at all for whatever reasons, allowing for a couple of the CDLCS from Arma 3 to be redone to work with Arma reforger also, would allow for console/PC ( both controller and KBM players) to beable to enjoy content/modes/campaigns etc.. that's already made of course reforgers controller config would have to be added in with some minor additions and such. But this could certainly provide a relief to the lack of consideration towards the fan/player base preferences as well having additional modes such as actual storyline scenarios and campaigns and whatever else as well more content and maps for game master editor would make a greater increase in popularity for certain. Anyways that's my opinion and thoughts on CDLC should be added and redone for arma reforger compatibility. Please don't reply with rude and disrespectful comments. I hope everyone here is enjoying the new year so far 😊

[knotty ore]

Due to many things this is not really poasible

[hallow parrot]

Well, Arma 3 and Reforger shares near to no technologies so simply no

[random crane]

Currently there's no public cdlc policy regarding reforger or the future arma titles

[young geyser]

Refoger is a transitional title only meant as an engine/tech showcase, testing platform, financial support (for Arma 4 development) and an introduction for moders to the new engine's modding tools. Said Moders who will probably later become CDLC devs for Arma 4 but given its short and closed roadmap no sane external dev is going to spend much resources on Reforger. Reforger was a necesary step in order to prove that the Arma platform can work on consoles and also to polish many aspects of the engine before Arma 4 so a prolonged early access for Arma 4 is not needed (Since Reforger is basically that)

[devout turtle]

The SOG PF team is going in a different direction to Bohemia. we won't be porting any of our work to a future BI title.

[steady ravine]

is the assets (as in 3d model) shared bettwen sog team and bi?

[devout turtle]

No

[knotty ore]

That applies to all cdlcs

[tepid lance]

Not exactly if that is true, especially with work that is derivative of A3 and A2 sources. But generally yes, assume that CDLC teams are the owners of their IP and BI does not have access to the source data to do what they want with that without input from the individual teams.

[knotty ore]

meant that yes. DLCs own their work

[devout turtle]

yep we obviously only licensed BI's content that we edited like buildings or trees or rocks. those we wouldn't wish to use elsewhere.

BI doesn't have access to sources, but it also doesn't have any kind of license from any creator studio to use the content in any way outside of the creator dlc in the Arma 3 game.

so there is no "easy porting" type process that BI or any third party can do with creator dlc content.

[knotty ore]

Not to mention none of the arma3 assets are directly compatible with the new shaders or new character shape.

[wicked pilot]

@devout turtle awww shucks then... oh well .. soon as apply my controller config for my XES2 controller with chatpad and proscroller MW/MMB attachments I'll just have to rock n roll on Arma 3 S.O.G. PF CDLC which I'm overly excited to finally try 👍🏻😎🇱🇧🇮🇪🇨🇦🦍

[devout turtle]

Thanks for understanding!
You can join the SOGPF discord found pinned in #sog_prairie_fire to hang out with other players.
Welcome to the jungle!

(You can also keep tabs there on our work to create a standalone multi-platform SOG game in Unreal 5)

[wicked pilot]

@devout turtle no problem, I have mental health/learning challanges so it's difficult to comprehend KBM gaming, controller gameplay is easier and less stressful for me usually, I'd just like to be able to be included to play these games and DLCs etc.. but since I finally managed to get things written down for default controls and a rough draft example for a workable configuration with controller, all I need to do now is choose which program to go with to make my configuration. I have infantry,common,
vehicles and editor/Zeus that I plan to setup on the controller mind I'll be leaving what I can that's less often used to be done with KBM method. And a standalone S.O.G. game id look forward to playing so long as it could have an open world campaign playable with a controller/KBM options, actually having campaigns from different ERAs and an editor of some kind with content from those campaigns would be really cool 😎 👍🏻, but regardless I'll be looking forward to see what you guys are able to develop in the future 👍🏻😎

[devout turtle]

I don't have any experience playing wit ha controller at all, but our future game will have that for console ports

[devout turtle]

https://youtu.be/1UMUsMA-eX4?si=xzfs_WAxeV12vaGy
we made "The Keeper"'s top 5 games of 2024 🙂

[devout turtle]

"Immersion through sheer force of nerd"
The Keeper, Top 5 Games of 2024.

I think we'll make some team T-shirts

[scenic hemlock]

Maaaaaan I really hope their YouTube series continues is some other form.

[devout turtle]

part 2 is out today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKOX9Xo27Cc

COD - festooned with nonsense - love the Keeper's phrasing

"can we stop looking at it?"

hilarious

[tepid lance]

COD Cold War's weapon choice were really something to witness.

[jovial locust]

i just love how the ww2 cod had a laser gun in it after 2 months of existing

[bright hull]

It had a ppsh on D-Day beach landing💀

[unborn carbon]

More than likely it was true due to OST troops being present there. However, they were probably modified and chambered in 9mm instead of the regular issued Tokarev. Still would not be too common.

Don’t believe I played that campaign, but knowing COD I’d imagine PPSH’s could be found everywhere. Gotta appease the multiplayer crowd somehow

[boreal crescent]

True.. 9mm. Germans change PPS at 9 mm.

[solid fjord]

Hey people, does the content from CSLA overlap with the content in Global Mobilization? Also, do anyone know if the weapons and vehicles of those DLCs are "balanced" with vanilla arma 3 assets?

[hallow parrot]

Either way, Compatiblility File for Non-Owners answers

[solid fjord]

what?

[rich mist]

You can check is what POLPOX is implying

There are mods to balance non-vanilla assets to vanilla assets

But generally GM is more lethal than Vanilla

Not sure about CSLA

[hard mauve]

You can "try before you buy" with some restrictions.
Example for GM: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1776428269

[solid fjord]

Ok, thanks

[ashen geyser]

CSLA is balanced with vanilla

[tepid lance]

Partially correct. The weapon values for damage, speed and so on are in the same area as vanilla arma 3. However there is an issue with AI interpreting these values. There was a bug that caused GM weapons to be extremely accurate in the hands of AI, thus creating this semi-truth of GM weapons not being balanced with Vanilla. In the next patch this is fixed. 🙂

This was especially hard to track down, as from the configs itself it all checked out correctly, identical values even but different AI behaviour. Turns out that for those specific config parameters controlling AI behaviour it must be simple numbers, not simple expressions. I.e we had to change them to state 8.0, rather than 4+2+2, as we previously controlled those values via more complex macros.

Thus, for the longest time it felt "off", but we couldn't measure any real difference by comparing configs. It all looked correct. Only with dedicated AI test missions we were able to figure out that the engine did not like the values as we had them written. 😬

[ashen geyser]

That's actually super interesting

Great to hear that you guys figured it out and it's getting fixed in the next patch 😄

[tepid lance]

Yes, it was crazy. People said its broken, we were convinced it wasn't, as we were checking the numbers and it was even in some cases identical 1:1. And yet there was something off. 🤯

FWIW GM against AI plays very different now. Its a night-day change.

[rich mist]

Omg Mondkalb hiiiiii!!!
Great to hear a response about it, definitely new info for me overall, I suppose just the lack of body armor makes things feel more lethal together with the fragile tanks(that are accurate in terms of protection in reality)

[devout turtle]

so is SOG. we all feel vanilla is a bit underpowered

[olive vortex]

I remember reporting that, also remember getting my ass whooped in Liberation. Accuracy can make such a difference. You don't realize how many shots AI usually misses unless they start not missing most of the shots ;D

[tepid lance]

Yup, it was really a strange one to even "grasp".

[young geyser]

Great find! I wonder if other CDLCs also suffer from this

[devout turtle]

Our AI are also super moderated by using custom difficulty profiles.

[young geyser]

Yeah, it feels balanced there! So you also stopped using macros on your config parameters or you managed to fix the issue with another method?

[knotty ore]

we didnt define our values in same manner so I dont think sogpf was ever affected with that particular issue

[hard mauve]

I'm not sure Mondkalb was implying that macro's were the problem per se, but that you can't use expressions, such as "4+2+2" when you intend the value to be 8, as the game engine interprets it differently. A simple macro #define FOUR 4 and this setSkill ["aimingAccuracy", FOUR]; perhaps still works, but not this setSkill ["aimingAccuracy", FOUR + EIGHT];. That's how I read his explanation anyway.

[fierce mortar]

@tepid lance
That is so interesting. BIS forums seem down at the moment, but I had a thread that explored just that topic. A GM AKM was found to be vastly more deadly than its vanilla (and modded) counterparts.

Excited to try the next version!

[tepid lance]

Exactly that phenomen. But if you fire it yourself, the penetration, damage and so on are exactly in line with Vanilla. Thats what we tested whenever this was reported, and we couldn't verify the claim. Until we started quantifying AI hit rates. 😄

They just always shoot you in the head 😑

[devout turtle]

a great find

[tepid lance]

Yeah, we were going nuts because it did feel off for sure, and maybe half of the changes we did to alleviate it may have only had placebo effect, until we found out the parameters weren't parsed like the others that did allow the usage of +

[devout turtle]

someone recently posted that our .45 acp was too strong. i was saying, it can't be, i go look and lo and behold, the initspeed is set at 2x what it should have been. so bugs can sneak through and go unnoticed for years

currently it's still the same in the dlc, we've patched it but it may be a year or never that this gets released by BI, so we'll make a patch in the Nickel Steel mod and release it after testing

in the meantime our .45 is blasting people, so enjoy it while you can 🙂

[ashen geyser]

.45 hand cannon

[solid fjord]

Studies on players that survived attacks from the AI have demonstrated that most shots hit arms and legs, and the damage is identical to vanilla.
[Insert survivor bias plane here]

[pseudo finch]

So, I know this topic was mentioned like a million times already, and I probably annoy some people with that, but:

How high is the chance to adjust the Arma 3 Launcher in the way if you use a CDLC on the server that, if it detects that either the DLC itself or the Compat Data is not installed, the Launcher installs and subscribes the Compat Data from the Workshop?

I believe that there are many, many people (including me) who wants to use the CDLC on their servers but due to that limitation, it's hardly possible as users have to manually install the Compat Data. And, sadly and honestly speaking, some users fail to do that.

[frozen meadow]

a problem with that could be the fact that half of the current CDLCs are 10> gigs, so it takes a lot of space and time to install them (for some)

[rich mist]

That is honestly not relevant to what he asked

[rich mist]

I think I remember it being said that this is a Launcher limitation of some sort and not something BI can handle rn but I could be wrong

I do agree that if a modlist contains CDLCs in them which the person doesn't have, or that the server they're trying to join uses the CDLC, it should ask them if they want to install and use compat data

However in terms of terrains it wouldn't work

[sinful cape]

this was investigated by dedmen long time ago and i think it turned out technically not very feasible

[hallow parrot]

It still is really needed to suggest you can install compat file to make it work, at least...

[sinful cape]

yeah but checking for that is what is not possible

well, at least not feasible

[pseudo finch]

I mean, technically, the launcher checks if the CDLC is present and installed, right? So, technically, it can do the same for the Compat, no? The Workshop ID should be always the same for these items. So, at least I would do that, create an XML file (or internally hardcoded) and do an additional check when joining the server. If both are installed (what might happen when you test them and buy them) print a warning (so users can unsubscribe from the Workshop). I know, it's not the best solution, but it might be a solution.

[young geyser]

I suggested a while back that non-owners who tried to enable a CDLC would get a prompt giving them the option to install the Compat data right there and then. Don't know if it was implemented but that suggestion was very feasable, as easy as adding one extra button to an already existing UI

Funny thing is that some devs stated that "low usage of compat data was a problem" but then did nothing to make it easier for players to enable said Compat Data... so...

[sinful cape]

there is a prompt if you dont own the cdlc but want to activate it

there is even a huge button about it

[wraith sleet]

The launcher should just have one button that knows what I want it to do when I click it

[red saddle]

The feature is 90% done. But.. only 90% and its been there for quite a while. Mostly missing texts for the dialog boxes and testing

[hallow parrot]

Context Heroes

[pseudo finch]

This sounds like quite good news. But, how high is the chance for that feature to be added in 2.20?

[red saddle]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[jovial locust]

yet another reason arma 3 should be open source
/s

[red saddle]

The launcher is already basically open source, in that you can see the source

[jovial locust]

true but i highly doubt bi takes pr's from the public

[lunar socket]

Then just become BI. Easy.

[honest egret]

How does one go about creating a CDLC for Arma 3? Do you need all the content first (map, assests, missions, etc) then apply to Bomhemia to be a CDLC? Or perhaps it's the other way around and you ask for permission to make one?

[red saddle]

You should have something to be able to present your concept/idea.
Not all the content.

[random crane]

you should have a proof of concept and a paper detailing your vision and plans

its not a guarantee you'll get approved, tho

[honest egret]

Got it. And who would you present this to? I'm thinking it would be a good idea to ask first if CDLC is still possible for A3 since AR and A4 are casting a shadow on it.

[gilded turret]

watch A4 be a failure and A3 stay alive (probably wont happen but we'll see)

[sinful cape]

see the faq at the bottom of the page https://arma3.com/dlc/creator

just asking BI "do you still allow cdlc?" will not get you an answer, though. you'll have to present your idea. think of a job interview- you can't just drop a random mail for that either.

[red saddle]

CDLC proposals are still being taken in.

[random crane]

looking at reforger numbers these days i wouldnt be so sure, unfortunately 🙃

[random crane]

if you want my humble opinion... no, especially if you're starting just now

an average 2 year turnaround time, plus QA, plus private beta, plus whatever technical delay for announcement+release, means 2.5yrs minimum of development, meaning your dlc drops in mid 2027 if everything goes well

arma 3 is not going to die anytime soon but at the same time people will be looking to move on to enfusion/a4 around that time

[devout turtle]

This!

[honest egret]

Thanks for the candid answers everyone! My main motivation in pursuing a CDLC effort is to gain experience in the industry and have something substantial in my portfolio to help me enter the industry as a paid employee on a team.

Is the feeling that it is more beneficial to develop a project in enfusion for the inevitable release of A4? And if so, is there any guarantee that A4 will support CDLC? What if I put 3 years into a project only to able to release as a mod and not recoup any monetary investment?

[random crane]

i will start off by saying that making an entire CDLC is not really a requirement to show to studios that you have what it takes to work for them, especially because if you develop a cdlc on your own you are by definition a generalist

like a jack of all trades

you can do a bit of modeling, encoding, scripting, etc etc, and usually studios hire for specific positions like a 3d artist, or maybe even more specifically a 3d character artist, or something else

however BI (and im pretty sure this applies to many other studios) hires plenty of people from the modding community

if you can manage to train yourself in whatever is the current engine (enfusion) you can have a shot at landing a job at BI, i think there's many here in this discord who did just that

Is the feeling that it is more beneficial to develop a project in enfusion for the inevitable release of A4? And if so, is there any guarantee that A4 will support CDLC? What if I put 3 years into a project only to able to release as a mod and not recoup any monetary investment?
i think that if you're getting into arma just now you'd have to be crazy to pick up a3 for a cdlc, learn how developing content works and all that, when the future is already laid in front of you and the tools are so much easier to figure out.
in short, learning game development on a3 now doesn't make sense, it's a dead end
as for A4 CDLCs, BI hasnt made any statement so i can't really say, considering the game isnt even out yet i think you're putting the carriage waaay ahead of the horses, so to speak.
regarding the risk with monetary investment, that's always a possibility

[honest egret]

Does being a generalist make it harder to find a job? I like the idea of being a generalist better than having a more focused discipline. But as you said, studios might be looking more for some specific talent.

[random crane]

BI can always decide to back away from your CDLC even if you have a contract signed

however i feel that if you have a contract signed at least BI believes your project has merit, but you need to keep in mind that you'll be spending years of your life working on your own and you won't see a dime until it releases

[random crane]

being a generalist helps because you know what is required of you and the people you work with, lets say that you as a generalist end up working as a 3d artist, you already know that for this vehicle (example) to work correctly in game the encoder needs certain bits of the mesh to be separated, or that textures should be organized in a certain way, etc etc

but at the same time someone who does 3d art full time is probably a lot quicker than you 🙃

i can say as someone who has done a cdlc, i understand perfectly well why BI hires so many people from the community, training someone from 0 to know how the engine works is a lot harder, more expensive and time consuming than picking up someone who trained themselves already and comes in already with a decent understanding of the game, if i need someone to do something for me hiring an external freelancer is the last thing i want

i'd rather work with someone from the modding community cause they already have a good idea of what they need to do

[honest egret]

So what I'm considering doing is going to part time at my current job to speed up my own personal skills development. As I understand it having a big portfolio is the way to go. So the idea is I take 2 or 3 years to really crunch and learn this stuff and hopefully that's sufficient to get my foot in the door somewhere. Does this sound off base or like a flawed strategy?

[random crane]

if you're looking to get hired from BI, if i were you i'd start with learning modding and finding something you enjoy first

whether its 3d art, encoding, animation, whatever

[honest egret]

It's also seems like I need to have a hyper focused goal too right? Like, "My goal is to work at xyz team/studio". Because skills don't always translate. For example if I spent 2 years learing Unreal or Unity then tried to apply at BI that would be like starting from square one. Thus I need to make a plan what modding/software to learn based on where I want to be. Does that sound right?

[knotty ore]

Well if you specifically want to apply to BI then learning their technology makes more sense

but also depends a lot on what you would like to apply for. 3D modeling is done in external tools for example which these days matter less what you use

as long as results are as designed

you might get a leg up by knowing the engine if you apply for some more technical position though

[random crane]

if you're dead set on joining BI the most logical thing to do would be to become familiar with their tools and pipeline of course

there are some positions which rely on external tools and that doesnt change regardless of the studio, as goat said, if you can do 3d art for unreal then you most likely can easily transfer that to another engine

and even if its a different program or engine, once you have the fundamentals its easier to make the jump to a new tool

like if someone who knows how to do models in blender, they can do them in maya or 3ds max or whatever once they get familiar with the UI and commands

[honest egret]

At the moment I have no specific goals, just a general direction. That's why I'm asking all these questions instead of just picking a direction and committing. I really appreciate the advice. Thank you all.🫡

[random crane]

no worries, good luck

[knotty ore]

modding as hobby can be nice way to try out different aspects of game development

sure there are some things that are not part of it like game engine developing

[honest egret]

I'm really enjoying mission making and learning the code thatgoes with it. Are there specific professions that focus on that?

[tepid lance]

Gamedesign would be the general path for that.

[random crane]

i guess BI calls it "mission designer"?

but yea

[tepid lance]

The entire industry is fairly young still, so with enough talent and dedication you can get in without any formal qualifications. But that is naturally not the norm.

The most important qualities you will need to have, if you are serious about this career path are: Humility and perseverance in solving your own issues. These two alone will get you a long way already. Pair that with the right connections and it's even a feasible path.

And an understanding you will never actually be done learning. The tech, the systems, the process evolves really quickly, so you need to self-study and stay on that ball forever. This fact is a big chunk in why I dont lend that much weight to the normal university career path. The tech you learned in year 1 is horribly outdated/obsolete by the time you graduate. What you take away from that is your ability to adapt to new stuff and work in that new realm without much delay. So don't focus yourself on "mission design", because maybe a year from now nobody needs mission design anymore, but people able to design multiplayer game modes. (as an example). You should be able to pick that up and work with that, until it changes the following year again.

I hope that kinda condenses the gist of it 😀

(I'm not knocking down the traditional way via university, they have tremendous benefit, but it's not a final decision maker)

[honest egret]

I was a mechanic for 15 years so learning constantly and solving problems is my skill set. So that's good to hear.

[tepid lance]

Oh yeah, with a real job already under your belt you will be a lot more grounded in reality, its a big bonus for sure if I saw that on a resume.

[young geyser]

Its been too quiet around the CDLC section... I smell something big cooking...

Either a current CDLC update or an entirely new CDLC being announced

[wraith sleet]

I could see it having a rougher launch and become more popular as stuff is improved. Excited to see what happens

[gilded turret]

i just hope a3 never dies

[gilded turret]

maybe it'll be gulf war which would be fire

[ashen geyser]

I'm fairly confident we can expect a GM update at some point this year

Also a new CDLC from Rotators Collective, maybe next year?

[sinful cape]

only god knows

[knotty ore]

[wraith sleet]

It’s okay Lexx, you can tell us. Surely the blacked out vans outside your house are unrelated

[rich mist]

they would NOT be blacked out, they WILL have the CSAT hex camo on them

[queen lichen]

There is one question that I am still so curious about that it is driving me crazy. Can CDLC's campaign be considered an official Arma 3's story?

[hallow parrot]

No

[queen lichen]

Thanks. Finally, my eternal curiosity has been solved.

[pseudo finch]

Or maybe an update about the CDLC Compat Pack detection in Launcher when CDLC is not present?

[wraith sleet]

There’s already the set up mods and dlc button when you join servers from the launcher. It’s about as easy as it could possibly be

[pseudo finch]

Actually not. When you don't own a CDLC, the Launcher doesn't automatically detect that there is a Compat available in Workshop and downloads it. You have to do that manually. But BI is working on that, see #creator_dlc_discussion message

[devout turtle]

We have small updates planned each quarter for SOG Nickel Steel Mod that adds high quality dlc level content to Prairie Fire for free.

Other than that, we’re just putting the finishing touches to our pitch for investment into SOG Out Of Shadow. Once that’s funded we’ll let people know in our discord, and on socials.

So if something is planned in Bohemias DLC publishing pipeline, it ain’t us!

[steady nest]

I imagine that BI announcing a 2027 release year for A4 may have something to do with that

It signals a belief that they can get from Reforger to something worthy of the name Arma 4 within the next two years, which coincidentally or not is what Chairborne said is an average turnaround time for an A3 CDLC

[young geyser]

BI has certainly grown wiser over the years and that shows.... them taking their time with Arma 4 making sure it is an all around improvement overall this time and not just the common "two steps forward four steps backwards" that most sequels are these days.
Even Arma 3 with all its technical improvements couldn't match some of Arma 2's charm, immersion, character building (incredible writing) and even main campaign playable in coop were things that Arma 3 couldn't properly recreate so obviously not surpass. (IE steps backwards)

Today Arma 3 has grown to be a worthy successor to the mighty Arma 2 but it certainly wasn't for the first few years and I feel that BI doesn't want that for Arma 4.

Steam Reviews matter now more than ever so it is very wise to aim for a clean, smooth and memorable release rather than rushing it and risking so many years of work

In the meantime, the CDLCs and incredible mods out there will keep us entertained and not longing for Arma 4 so much

[devout turtle]

It’ll be a huge wrench for our team to eventually leave arma after modding it for more than a decade. Two in some cases. Will also be fun to play arma 4 without any “work baggage” as it becomes once again “just a game” and no longer a job.

[young geyser]

Even if you leave Arma it will always feel like home coming back to it after so many years of investing time, money, sweat and blood on it

You guys showed passion that no amount of money can buy and that is exactly what made some games the classics that they are and a rare thing now in this industry

Keep the same passion for your next project and it will make history just like SOG did

[devout turtle]

Thanks for your kind words. Our team has a powerful bond now with each other, grown over seven years, we know we did a great service to the players and the veterans, and we will continue our mission in the next game outside Arma. The projected budget is about $40m and dwarfs Prairie Fire’s $2.4m. It’s quite a different situation to face for sure.

We have a group of AAA engineering codev studios lined up, as well as UIX, design and tech art people with a string of successful titles behind them, all ready to start when we secure the funding. It’s a hell of a buzz. One of the most daunting prospects is having a burn rate of $1m a month during some stages of the project. It seems insane.

There will be more prairie fire content in nickel steel though. We continue to support our players.

[young geyser]

I want to be able to give you good luck but to be honest you guys don't even need it, you have been proven by fire and came out stronger than ever... in mind, soul and certainly numbers. Just don't loose the formula that you used for SOG, that is all you guys need 😉

Who knows, maybe we end up doing CDLCs and mods for your game pretty soon 😉

[devout turtle]

Thanks. Yeah we built a new approach to making games. Maybe some people will look back and see where it all started. Like dayz and pubg, although probably not quite the insane numbers they achieved.

Our forecasts for the next title are in the $400m+ area

Which sounds nuts, but the formula and model is being taken really seriously by every AAA studio and individual we engage with. They all can see it, and so can we. It’s of course a big ambition. It will be nice to show what a creator team can ultimately achieve with the right partners.

The new game mode should be out soon in arma 3, which has a similar core loop, and it’s fun to play. So let’s also see what players and streamers think of it.

[devout turtle]

Oh and one other relevant point to arma creator dlc - we reviewed our original pitch recently when developing the forecasting model for sales and - amazingly - the number of unit sales predicted was 500k, but with 150k coming from the pvp segment. And right about 2018 when we wrote that - dayz SA modding really took off and most of the pvp players migrated to dayz. Today we are at 350-360k so we hit it right on the nose which we thought was interesting.

[young geyser]

Those are very interesting numbers indeed. I am impressed that DayZ is able to cannibalize so deep into Arma 3 CDLC sales yet I can also infer that many of those PVP players eventually returned to A3 once the had they DayZ cup filled

That also means that your are probably close to breaking even (~2.2 MM in net revenue versus ~2.4 MM expenses and costs of development)

Highlights the importance of the financial forecast in all and any investment

[sinful cape]

i dont believe dayz has that influence

if at all, i'd say it helped us and a3 to more exposure and thus more sales

[crystal cape]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-yay-si-cool-dope-gif-11490546311437246006

[young geyser]

Fair point... it is a factor that is very hard to measure without polls and surveys at that time...

Most of my friends who tried DayZ and enjoyed its PVP focus eventually returned to Arma for its coop and its versatility so my own experience supports Lexx's comments but I can't speak for the masses

Probably BI has statistics that could help in clearing this up but either way BI making solid games and supporting them in the long run does help the whole ecosystem as such behavior generates trust and loyalty from the playerbase

One thing in favor of Rob's comments is that he is clearly and specifically talking about PVP players and that specific demographic was not the target of other CLDCs which mostly focused on the COOP aspect...

So in that regard, WS for example, would be hit less by PVP players prefering one product over the other

Also, I am not following DayZ's modding scene but if mods are able to offer similar experiences on a "better" engine then it is logical that it would cause some level of exodus

[devout turtle]

we saw exile, koth, wasteland, battle royale and other pvp game modes literally die off during that period. are there still pvp activities going on, bar FNF doing occasional (awesome) events?

i would say that the vast majority of SOGPF players are playing co-op or SP with editor/ scenarios

[devout turtle]

I didn't mention revenues at all.

[young geyser]

Yeah, I did that calculation based on the price of the DLC minus the steam tax and then half between you and BI and the number of sales (Units) that you did provided

Pretty rough... probably missed some ks

On the expenses side I took your 2.4 MM costs and that gave me an estimate of your break even (net revenue surpasing costs)

Actually I used the wrong financial terminology, it is not Net Revenue but Raw Revenue... Net Revenue should still be in the negatives (~ -200K) as of my rough calculations

Tell me how far off was I

[devout turtle]

This information we don’t share. Only within the team.

[young geyser]

That is good, I wasn't talking about exact numbers but rather if I was too optimistic or too pessimistic

On my forecasts I tend to exaggerate expenses and castigate sales so was probably on the low end of the spectrum

It is important to note that games are a rather long term investments so break even doesn't happen too fast in most cases... The average is around 3 years

[devout turtle]

On our next game the projections are to earn between 400 and 600 million usd gross. When you take off country price adjustments, sales discounts, engine fees, platform fees, refunds, and sales taxes you have 50% left!

A huge amount of money to burn to get to market

Then the investor takes half, and you share a chunk with the team and put the rest back into your next title.

The creator dlc model doesn’t invest cash, so we all work in the hope of recovering our costs. And BI takes 50% without much of an investment - a small amount on localisation and trivial marketing.

This is a stepping stone situation only.

[young geyser]

Looking good! By the way I heard there won't be vehicles in the upcoming title, hopefully that is not set on stone 😉

[devout turtle]

Yeah as there’s no point, the game is a stealth game in dense jungle with realistic thick foliage and mountains. AI driving trucks on roads etc. players won’t want to attempt to drive there.

We are not making arma or squad type games.

[young geyser]

parked props will do then 😉

for immersion's sake

[hearty arrow]

i will chime in, this channel is for A3 CDLC not to discuss future plans of the teams / individuals afterward, feel free do that in the respective discords related to those other projects , for A3 SOG PF #sog_prairie_fire there is another channel

[devout turtle]

moving here
#sog_prairie_fire message

[steady nest]

I will note that if Chairborne's estimate of two years is a rule, then any CDLC that gets greenlit now will end up releasing the year that Arma 4 would be released and thus said CDLC's prospects would be very dependent on the adoption rate for A4

BI already got burned twenty years ago when they spent four years on Operation Flashpoint: Elite only for it to only be ready to release around the time the Xbox 360 console was

This being as opposed to any CDLC that already got greenlit and has simply not been announced... which historically only occurs at roughly two weeks from launch

[young geyser]

Good points, also the Flashpoint: Elite situation I wasn't aware of.
DayZ was also a harsh learning point for BI, as it got delayed and was review bombed in the beginning as players were calling it a "downgrade" compared to the mod... Took them years to "chatch up" and that was a very traumatic time for its devs... some left even the project lead I believe

BI would hardly want to repeat that whole "situation" with Arma 4

[steady nest]

The source re: Flashpoint: Elite is this, boldfacing by me:

Bohemia, in its naivety, bit off far more than its small team could chew. It believed it could make an Xbox version of Operation Flashpoint, a sequel to Operation Flashpoint and continue supporting Operation Flashpoint all at the same time. It believed the Xbox conversion, Operation Flashpoint: Elite, would take nine months, but it took four years because the team struggled with the console's lack of RAM. It launched at the same time Microsoft launched the Xbox 360 and fell on deaf ears. "We spent four years working on an old game," Španel rues. "It was a big loss for the company."
https://www.eurogamer.net/bohemias-war-the-story-of-the-company-behind-arma-and-dayz

[steady nest]

And it outright happened again with Arma Reforger... a key difference being that at least Arma Reforger was explicitly announced as being part of the Arma 4 development cycle

[pallid raptor]

Given the release of the CDLC pack:
#announcements message

Does that mean there will be no more CDLCs?

[rich mist]

considering they released DLC packs and then continued to release new ones, I doubt it

[young geyser]

Would be good if they clarify that buying the CDLC pack ensures the inclusion of future CDLCs (or not)

Seems weird because there is at least one more CDLC is the making

Don't get me wrong, I love the bundle initiative, Sins of a Solar Empire 2 also has a DLC bungle that includes any upcoming DLC:
"Buy Sins of a Solar Empire II - Content Pass"

But the difference is that they do have a DLC roadmap

[warm shore]

A3 also had a bundle containing all future DLC, Supporter Edition or whatever... too bad it didn't include CDLC 🙃

[sinful cape]

it does not

there already was a dlc pack release last year

[young geyser]

Seems like the sensible thing to do as a player is just to wait for all CDLC to be released before getting said pack then

Was going to use that bundle to finally convince some friends to make the jump from CUP or RHS into CDLCs but now my recomendation will be to just wait

[sinful cape]

or just buy the pack later again

since the prices are adjusted for what you already own

[steady nest]

Yup, Steam Storefront supports bundle prorating when buying for oneself

[young geyser]

That needs to be stated in BOLD and CAPS letters somewhere!

Pinned everywhere too

[devout turtle]

nice bundle there - some quality content for a steal of a price

[steady nest]

In my case the Arma 3 Creator Pack bundle is at 50% discount (price is 58.69+tax USD) when logged out and at 45% discount (price is 41.16+tax USD) when logged in, due to the price being prorated by the cost of both the base game and Spearhead 1944

If I bought any one of the other CDLCs separately I believe the bundle price would be updated accordingly

[young geyser]

Yeah, BI got the system right for sure, as that is a fair method for previous buyers too

[steady nest]

FWIW this unfortunately doesn't apply to the Deluxe Edition or the Ground Edition, however the Ultimate Edition is treated as a pro-rated Bundle as well, as is the Veteran's Pack

[hallow parrot]

When the "Third-Party DLC" pitch was announced they really say they will not bundle them anyways, but... yeah things are changed I guess

[young geyser]

I my opinion it is good when companies show flexibility and adaptation

In life as in business, it is better if nothing is set on stone

*The exception being if there was a contract or some sort of legal agreement, then it is just a breach of contract or breach of trust

[devout turtle]

We were consulted and readily agreed to it. Any different way to meet a players desires for a good deal is good for us.

We had asked way back in 2018 if we could have a bundle with Arma 3. So you buy one bundle and get A3 and SOG (and all the other creators would presumably have a similar bundle) but sadly that couldn’t be accommodated. Now if BI would reconsider this - we’d be very happy. As it reduces the clicks and the confusion and barriers between players getting into our game.

For non arma owners its a great way we each can advertise to them. Buy this bundle - and added together with arma 3 80% off and SOG 40% off thats about 17 bucks for the whole experience - and it removes the relative price sensitivity

Whereas seeing arma 3 for 5 bucks and SOG for 13 bucks it makes us look expensive relatively

And I fully believe this price sensitivity is the primary cause for lower attach rates of creator dlcs

If we can say buy SOG Prairie Fire and Arma 3 for $18 which is a combined saving of 65% (or w/e the maths is) - and you go to that bundle and click buy… that’s much simpler messaging, buying process and price / discount offer communication

@tepid lance what do you think of that suggestion?

[tepid lance]

A combo of base + expansion would make it more appealing for sure. Not sure how steam can do this logistically without spamming the store even further. (It would need to be a pre-made bundle of base + cdlc for every CDLC).

Inverting the logic, if you buy CDLC you get a 80% off on base game coupon/voucher would be closer to this idea, but really difficult to communicate and then execute on (buy dlc first, then buy base game again with voucher, so 2x the transaction work and fees)

Maybe there is a case to say "buy CDLC get Arma3 free"?

This would eliminate the price-mismatch you highlighted where a CDLC is 2.5x the cost of the base game.

[devout turtle]

That is a great idea but BI would take a big hit if they don’t get their due cut for A3.

It would be a lovely show of gratitude for all the teams in the community. But that’s not how BI thinks or has acted to date 🙂

The price sensitivity due to the relative mismatch is what i think is the biggest barrier affecting all our sales

My wife is a chartered marketing professional and head of our state economy, and has said for years we should sell at much bigger discounts to take advantage of the volume of people who buy arma 3 (900k pa)

But i cant take that risk for the team

What’s your view on that?

I guess it would need a lot of advertising too

As a discount alone is not going to be noticed unless the marketing funnel is in operation driving conversions

BI view tends to be - if we are going to advertise we need to do it for all teams equally, and there needs to be conversions to fund it.

One shot sales dont have the conversion energy, you need a campaign

I guess we’d be up for bigger discounts in a base game bundle (which removes the cost of A3 if you own it) with an advertising campaign

And targeting the past 5 years’ buyers - about 4m people including 2m americans

[silk dirge]

to sell A3 and all CDLC just add conflict game mode and add some real gear to specnaz in game, no need discount....

[knotty ore]

Wikipage listing CDLC texture sources etc modding resources. do we have one? @zealous moat

[zealous moat]

nay, each CDLC team brought (or not) their intel on the biki
SOG did a separate wiki

[knotty ore]

is there a place in there that could list it. Would be pretty good resource as other DLC stuff gets asked for every now and then too

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1PEysMQdyYnems9iK2jLvMTEGKhwIgD8l SOG modding support package can be found here

[zealous moat]

e.g
GlobMob https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Category:Global_Mobilization
CSLA https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Category:CSLA:_Iron_Curtain
Spearhad 1944 https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Category:Spearhead_1944
the others do not have anything

[sinful cape]

i didnt even know this was an option

polpox has a page with our script stuff

[queen lichen]

I would like to translate some CDLCs into Korean but, Are Studios not accepting translators?

[steady ravine]

surely they accept Localizer

[sinful cape]

translation is done by BI directly

[random crane]

Also studios can't commit their own translations to add to the ones provided by BI

[rich mist]

You could make a mod for it however

[queen lichen]

I want to, but it's impossible because every file is encrypted with ebo.

[knotty ore]

you likely need to reach out to the developers directly

[queen lichen]

Is there any way to contact them directly?

[knotty ore]

each dlc has their own discords for example

[light sluice]

https://arma3.com/dlc/creator -- each creator has website with contacts.

[queen lichen]

Oh, Thank you! Divines bless your kind heart!

[wintry sail]

We really need an OPFOR DLC called "Opposing Forces" to give us a bunch of new CSAT goodies. OPFOR needs love too.

I for one would kill a man to get some kind of OPFOR carrier. Maybe with a ski jump style launch system. Y'know, 2035 style Kuznetsov. And maybe some kind of other static ships like NATO has.

New planes are always nice, as are new vehicles...

Who do I have to throw money at to fund this?

[lunar socket]

Sadly one of the reasons why it hasn't happened yet is money to translate and voice in non-English.

[wintry sail]

I could round up a few non-English voice actors at a reasonable price.
I think that is probably not one of the more pressing reasons. I think one of the more pressing reasons why nothing like this has been done is that most of us live in the west and most of us want to make Western equipment. I mean look at the mod workshop.

When's the last time you saw anyone doing Eastern vehicles that aren't just stolen War Thunder assets? It happens, sure, but not nearly to the same frequency as western stuff. For crying out loud, RHS and Pook were the only mods with a MiG-29 for the longest time. Whereas you could find an F-16 in several mods. Or take the tanks for example, RHS was the only mod for a while with modern Russian tanks until CUP finally updated.

And don't even get me started on the lack of Chinese or Iranian drip. Or what about India? Throw some stuff in from India too, for good measure. Why not? I know of zero Indian army stuff on the workshop.

There is, however, a demand for these things.
And so many people who don't even know they want these things until you bring it up and go, "Actually yeah that would be cool."

Anyway, it's just a cool idea. I don't wanna start an hours long autism fueled discussion of it. I have work soon. And if I start, I won't stop.

[lunar socket]

Lexx said:

no problem finding vo, no need for translation, you can actually understand what they say, etc
am i sure the people in minotaur are saying exactly what i wrote? nope.
would need another translator to crosscheck all voice lines
so you already have doubled your cost"```

[wintry sail]

I mean being a voice actor myself I'm honestly shocked that is the blocker of such a thing coming into reality.

Doubled costs feels like a gross exaggeration, but I'm a VA, not a translator of English to Farsi and Russian and Mandarin.

And you can always just cheat and have the VA in English with foreign accents.

fine we won't do that

[lunar socket]

Might have been referring to just a campaign, but maybe not considering how much of the DLCs he alone made. He said that the Callsign Minotaur was $3500.

[knotty ore]

CDLCs are basically made out of pocket

[wintry sail]

Well a campaign would most definitely cost a lot in VA lines. I mean it still wouldn't be close to the costs of developing everything else, but it's still a good chunk of change depending on where you get the VAs from.

If I were in a position to develop such a CDLC I'd just say screw it and not bother with the VA half of the stuff until a future update once I can fund making a whole campaign worth of voice acting. Until then I'd just stick with fun multiplayer gamemodes and probably lean on lots of OPFOR variants of what are normally NATO centric games, or maybe a few new things entirely. Plus, I know there's a market just for the assets themselves for mission makers.

But I digress.

[knotty ore]

and maybe paythemselves back

people who work on them basically work for maybe money

[wintry sail]

I am aware, yes.
It's an investment.

[knotty ore]

yes

but

[wintry sail]

Video game development in general is a very dodgy investment

[knotty ore]

hard to get professional externals on that

[wintry sail]

Maybe it's just because I am a VA and I know where to get more VAs that the whole thing of VAs feels like by far the easiest part. Hell, even the music I could work out. I'll get Jose Pavli on the line.

The hardest part is probably the modeling and actual creation of those assets. For that I struggle to find people.

[lunar socket]

BI would likely not even let you release without a voiced campaign and nobody would play the MP after week 2. Also "even [Western Sahara] 1.1 update gave barely a return in value."

[wintry sail]

That's a pity, but again I don't think the VA lines are the most cost prohibitive part of it.

Also I feel like Western Sahara is not the best example because it's also the cheapest of the CDLC with the least content. Like how did GM and SOG compare? I know GM got off to a rough start but SOG did pretty well. Or idk how the other DLCS did.

[lunar socket]

WS isn't the cheapest nor does it have the least content. Allegedly SOG is still in debt and CSLA almost got CDLCs shut down, but I don't know about the truth of either.

[wintry sail]

Okay well WS most definitely was the cheapest CDLC when it came out.

[knotty ore]

Like I said its hard to get external work on "I owe yous"

"modder" developers who do it for the chance is different matter

but theres very little voice actors there

you also need good voice engineer to implement the stuff

who knows Arma

[wintry sail]

I mean, I'm not implying that should be the case. Nobody works for IOUs unless it's the person who made the investment in the first place.

I have no idea what issues you guys are encountering for voice actors, though. I can get voice actors very easily. And not lousy theater kids who think they're voice actors but sound more fake than an AI doing the same lines, but like actual proper professional voice actors with more than a passable range of voice for ArmA.

Voice engineer however, that's a whole different can of worms; getting all the lines to play when they should, how they should, splicing lines together in real time, subtitles, etc.

But again, I still think the actual asset creation remains the hardest aspect about any CDLC.

By all means, if anyone is having trouble finding voice actors for a project, hit me up.

[lunar socket]

Translating is the issue I think.

[wintry sail]

Translating is definitely an issue, as discussed previously.

[knotty ore]

it still all costs X

lets say it adds 10k or 20k to be paid out

if you can do without.

[wintry sail]

Overall project might still be like, idk, lowball of 100k maybe. Yeah. (That still feels like too low.)

And the only person willing to work for free on it would be the person who starts that project.

I haven't the foggiest idea how much a CDLC like Expeditionary Forces took to produce.

Anyway, would be cool though, I know there's a market for it.
Opposing Forces. Would be neato.

With that I depart, since I have nothing further of value to add to the discussion that hasn't been said already.

[jaunty stump]

How does a CDLC get greenlit? I’d love to make a CDLC on the falklands conflict

[steady ravine]

instead it gives us some HECU Marines in urban uniform fighting aliens

[knotty ore]

you get together a solid production plan and apply to CDLC program at BI

[wintry sail]

Took me a moment lmao

[knotty ore]

dont know how good modding experience you got already, but it is recommneded to know the ins and outs of the process

[jaunty stump]

I’ve worked on over 30 mods

Scripting, animating, modelling etc

[knotty ore]

If you think you are up to it you can apply with a plan

[jaunty stump]

What does the plan entail?

Like details on the project or how it’s going to be logistically done

[knotty ore]

stuff like that

budge calculation probably helps

hows the business going to be set up etc

production timeframe

who you got to make it

or is it just you

etc

if you are looking for terrain also in it

[steady ravine]

bear in mind profit is splitted for 3 parties, BI, Steam, and CDLC Dev

[jaunty stump]

I’ve already made a selection of falklands stuff that I haven’t published

[knotty ore]

then 1 person is not realistic project

[jaunty stump]

Yeah 100%

[knotty ore]

terrain quality requirement is pretty high too

[jaunty stump]

Do I create a team then apply or apply then create a team

[knotty ore]

having a team can probable be positive for the application

or at least enough people to cover the basic elements

[jaunty stump]

Alright

Where do I find the application?

[knotty ore]

open writing

theres no template

[jaunty stump]

Where do I send it?

[knotty ore]

I recall its somewhere in the Arma3 homepage

in the cdlc section

[olive vortex]

https://arma3.com/dlc/creator#faq-developers

There are no set rules for who can sign up to become a Creator DLC developer, but we typically select those who have put together a strong pitch and prototype, and are able to demonstrate that they have the necessary expertise to successfully execute their idea within a reasonable amount of time. So far, most Creator DLC developers are people with professional experience in software development as well as a long-standing record of participating in the Arma modding community.

[knotty ore]

Id say do consider in your project what uniqueness you would bring

[young geyser]

I feel that the scope of what the CDLC is depicting has to be significant ie usable in some scenarios other than a single scenario. For example Cold War CDLCs content can be used to depict many scenarios other than what the CDLC offers. Most CDLCs that have that sort of "wide scope" ensure more sales due to those CDLCs getting more missions from mission makers and therefore more exposition in youtube etc.
Maybe a CDLC where the uniforms, weapons and map are too specific to a single conflict has a harder time being approved/considered for a potentially profitable project

[jaunty stump]

The Falklands conflict has a lot of 1980’s British equipment which would work well with the Cold War CDLC’s

[young geyser]

FN Fals, Harriers and Mirages? If you add the battleships and submarines you've got a win under your arms but those are very expensive to make

[jaunty stump]

Also a lot of the Argentinian aircraft like the mirage, skyhawk and canberra would be applicable for a lot of factions

[jaunty stump]

I want to add as many of the destroyers and aircraft carriers as possible

[young geyser]

I would buy it if it has twice the amount of content that Expeditionary Forces has

[young geyser]

Nice, then by all means try to have that aproved 😉

[jaunty stump]

My priority list of assets would be:

Vulcan
Harrier
Hercules

Gazelle
Chinook HC.1

Canberra
Mirage
Skyhawk

Puma
Bell 205/206/212
skyvan

3 maps:
goose green
Stanley
San Carlos

Ships:
Type 82 destroyer
Type 42 destroyer
2 British aircraft carriers

San antonio
Gearing type destroyer

Land vehicles:
argentina:
AML-90
LARC-V
Unimog
Mercedes Benz

Britain:
Scorpian
Samson
Scimitar
landrover
stalwart

[knotty ore]

now realistically cut that in half at least

[young geyser]

Sounds like a perfect complement to any of the current cold war CDLCs which also have a fair amount of playerbase

[knotty ore]

you have some major elements in there

3 maps

oh my

xD

maybe 1/3rd

[young geyser]

The 3 maps are on the same island... So basically a single biome divided

[knotty ore]

still

at dlc quality

not realistic

[young geyser]

He would need SOG levels of team members indeed

[jaunty stump]

That is true, but also the Falklands islands are pretty barren

[young geyser]

Hire Temppa (Arma's best map maker), problems fixed

[lunar socket]

Yeah, but then it will end up feeling like the VR map.

[jaunty stump]

As one big map it would be very cool

[young geyser]

Yes, one big map, otherwise the air to air engagements would suffer

[jaunty stump]

The issue is the length from San Carlos to Stanley is over 50km

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Land.ops.2.en.svg#mw-jump-to-license

Ideally this would be the map

[young geyser]

Aren't there full sized Falklands maps on the workshop already?

[lunar socket]

Control C Control V time

[jaunty stump]

They aren’t the highest quality

[young geyser]

So those can be used as a proof of concept and also to test the size impact on FPS for example

[jaunty stump]

What I could do is like with altis

Shrink the middle down a bit

[young geyser]

Yes, that is a must. Basically anything that is too barren and not strategically important could be cut down in size if not entirely

[jaunty stump]

The main 3 points I want are Goose green, Stanley and San Carlos

I think it would be cool to have operation mikado (maybe a small map in Argentina)

[young geyser]

Two maps, one big and one small are pretty doable even for a small team. And if you follow my advice and hire Temppa as your map maker you have performance and quality assured basically

[jaunty stump]

What’s Temppa’s discord?

[young geyser]

He is the map maker for SOG prairie fire, you can ask there

[jaunty stump]

Prairie fire’s maps are class

[young geyser]

If BI was any smart they would have him working on Arma 4 by now...

[young geyser]

Yes, and it is a miracle they run as well as they do with all those assets crammed in there...

[knotty ore]

this is no reason that it would not take long time to make look good

it might even be more difficult since everything is visible all the time

that also leads to gameplay design

real world land elements dont always make good gameplay

[knotty ore]

nearly all assets got some sort of performance facelift

= better fps

[young geyser]

He said he is going to go the "Altis" way so cutting down any part of the real map that do not add to the immersion and also parts that could cause issues

[young geyser]

yeah, however did those is the GOAT

and needs to teach the livonia map makers a lesson or two

[knotty ore]

I wonder could I squeeze out some fps out of it with some asset revamp

probably

but BI isnt hiring for that 😅

[young geyser]

I seems like BI's map makers are terrible at following their own advice and ussing occulders properly

[young geyser]

Force yourself into the possition! Such optimizations would go great in tandem with everything that Dedmen is working his ass off to pull off (performance stuff)

He can only go so far without having the assets optimized (reminds me of the rocks which draw more fps down than an entire town)

[knotty ore]

also got to add metric ton of terrain assets to that list. I doubt the buildings in the game would fit in

thats a whole lot of work

possibly also need foliage and proper looking rocks

it all starts to add up

big things like those ships take months to make right

that list is probably near SOGPF V1 amount of stuff

[young geyser]

How about a CDLC to finance all that following that Art of War Charity Pack model? Basically paid optimized assets for the first 3 years and then part of the game for free.

Basically players will pay to get early access to the more performant assets

But those who don't want to pay just need to wait until they become available to them for free

[lunar socket]

The thing is that you can't lock assets behind restrictions with how it is now.

[young geyser]

Why? Didn't that work for Art of War just fine? What changed since then?

[lunar socket]

AFAIK it's never been like that. The only restrictions are:
-Can not access terrains or missions added by DLC
-Can not equip DLC weapons or items off the ground/boxes
-Can not get in crew slots for DLC vehicles
-Get ads when wearing DLC items or in DLC vehicles

[young geyser]

What I am suggesting is a whole other thing.... There will be no restrictions there. The paid customers will have the optimized assets loaded in their maps and the non paying players will get the same ones they are already getting right now

None gets any restriction, one just gets better fps

[lunar socket]

How will it work though?

[knotty ore]

eh, probably not gonna work out

[young geyser]

Art of War

[lunar socket]

AoW worked by using the normal restrictions right?

[young geyser]

Could be, depends on other aspects too (BI policy etc) but I haven't heard any other brilliant ideas on how to finance such asset optimization project

Everyone is very good at shotting down ideas but not giving better ideas

[jaunty stump]

I remade one of the warehouses on altis with an interior, I just need to publish it

[young geyser]

That too, we could finally get furnitures back from the aliens

[lunar socket]

Kind of like saying everyone's good at disproving chemtrails or flat Earth, but not proving them.

[young geyser]

Sorry, not a native speaker so I couldn't get the reference... but my point still stands. We must find ways to make the things we want happen, and if money is the issue we need to find a way that the whole thing makes money somehow

[jaunty stump]

A cool thing about the Falklands is that both sides used a lot of the same vehicles

My plan for assets is to give both sides 1 bomber, one transport and 2 jets.
The transport for both is a C:130 which is good

[lunar socket]

You can disprove something false easily, but not prove it. IMO it's quite unrealistic we can find a way to fund revamping all A3 assets.

[young geyser]

Ohh, now I get it, yes, maybe, but also it is not all the assets just the troublesome ones (to begin with)

[knotty ore]

I mean technically BI could sell FPS dlc and claim back the investment to it from that

😅

but everyone would get the improvements anyway

[young geyser]

They should! I would pay ANYTHING for a performance dlc and most other players I know would too. Specially if that also supports Deadmen's work. In fact I would pay 20 USD for that

[knotty ore]

buying the dlc would just support the work

probably a pipe dream though

[jaunty stump]

2 large transport helis, 2 medium/ armed and a light attack helicopter (both sides share the large transports and a medium armed)

[knotty ore]

is a lot

just saying

[young geyser]

I believe all CDLCs started as a dream so we are on the right track

[jaunty stump]

2 cars and 3 APC’s

I think that’s doable

[young geyser]

To complement that, the SOG team said they didn't regret doing the CDLC but that they wouldn't do it again and specially on that same scope

I would take their advice

[knotty ore]

yeeh I guess it kinda blew up a bit didnt it 😅

the later DLCs are far more reasonable sized

[jaunty stump]

13 aircraft isn’t that insane of an undertaking is it?

[young geyser]

But, on the same note, there is such a thing as a too small CDLC and CDLCs have been hitting that too. It is important to strike a right balance

[knotty ore]

total madness

[young geyser]

Two per side (most iconic ones) with some variants and textures is enough

Same with Helis

[jaunty stump]

Two?

[young geyser]

One attack one transport for each side

Of couse if assets overlap (both side use the same) then you could do more than 2 per side

[jaunty stump]

I have 2 jets, a bomber and a transport

There is a lot of asset overlap

[young geyser]

Also don't forget some CIV and INDEPENDENT assets so you are actually doing 4 sides but those extra sides don't need helis or tanks etc so they are far smaller

Still something to consider

[knotty ore]

well extra textures per side is not that much. but its the actual getting stuff made up to par and then into game working as intended

[jaunty stump]

Exclusive to Britain:
Vulcan, Phantom, Harrier
Exclusive to Argentina:
IAI Dagger, Mirage

[young geyser]

I would say one of the wisest thing you can do is doing the bare minimum ammount of assets necesary to depict what the CDLC is trying to depict (that was a very good advice from one of the CDLCs' team leaders)

[jaunty stump]

Overlap: Canberra, C-130

[young geyser]

Also focus on assets not already depicted on other CDLCs, sometimes re doing assets is unavoidable thou. For example the FAL rifles, I've seen them somewhere on another CDLC but you have to have them for yours

[jaunty stump]

In that case it would be:
harrier, Vulcan, c-130, mirage

[young geyser]

It is better to have few top notch high quality assets that many poor quality ones

So yes, that

[jaunty stump]

For helicopters:
Gazelle, chinook, seaking, bell, lynx

Chinook, seaking and lynx are shared

[young geyser]

Then start with the shared ones with different textures for each side and if the CDLC sells well you can expand to the other ones

[jaunty stump]

Armour:
LARC-V, AML-90, scimitar, scorpion

[young geyser]

Seems like the smart thing to do and what many teams did, only completed their roadmaps after getting the sales in

[jaunty stump]

Smart

I just want to see if this is too much or if it seems reasonable

2 transports on each side, a car and a truck

I know that every vehicle is so much more effort than it seems

But also I hope that if I actually get a team for the slim chance it gets greenlit

It could be doable

[knotty ore]

too much

imo way too much

compare with the other dlcs too

although not SOG

and what they had at launch

(well sog was little bit less at launch)

[jaunty stump]

17 vehicles?

[knotty ore]

whats that?

[jaunty stump]

17 in total

Air and ground

[knotty ore]

where?

your list?

[jaunty stump]

Is it reasonable?

[knotty ore]

no

[young geyser]

Focus on the quality sea assets which Arma 3 is terribly lacking... those will be your biggest selling points and something that no other cold war CLDC has...

[jaunty stump]

True, it’s one of the main reasons I want to

[knotty ore]

and I dont mean to poop on your dream here. but to be realistic

[jaunty stump]

I spent 2 weeks on HMS Bristol when I was younger

[lunar socket]

And the only combat planes apart from SOG.

[jaunty stump]

Also bombers

Vulcan

canberra

[knotty ore]

lets say generous 100 man hours per vehicle

[young geyser]

Also remember that you want to release your CDLC before Arma 4

[knotty ore]

1700 hours

70 days

hmm 100 mand hours aint probably enough though

considering encoding and supporting animations and stuff

200?

[jaunty stump]

I’ve made vehicles in less

[knotty ore]

but at dlc quality?

[young geyser]

And the average hourly rate for the man hours?

[jaunty stump]

There are 46 in SOG

[knotty ore]

ye and pricetag was some 2 million

[jaunty stump]

What????

[knotty ore]

sogpf total budget was about 2 million

[jaunty stump]

Did not know that

[knotty ore]

ye I thought you might not know

[lunar socket]

What about income?

[knotty ore]

less

so get people buy the dlc

its been sold very cheap

cheap pixels

buy buy buy

[young geyser]

They will break even, eventually. More of a passion project thou... But don't get into CDLC making if you think you will become rich by any means

[jaunty stump]

How much did Western Sahara cost?

[young geyser]

That sort of information is not public, the little information we have is from devs being generous with their sharing

[knotty ore]

dont think that numbers been revelead

yeh that

less than sog I hope xD

[jaunty stump]

A small thing tho, I’ve already made 3 of the vehicles

Like basically ready to go

So 14 vics

[young geyser]

In a fair world it would be so... but this isn't a fair world sadly 😦

[knotty ore]

well make the plan and give it a go

[lunar socket]

At DLC quality?

[knotty ore]

I dont think your list is realistic though

[jaunty stump]

I hope so

[jaunty stump]

What do you think I should take off?

[knotty ore]

2/3

[jaunty stump]

I think 2 cars and 2 tanks per side is reasonable

[knotty ore]

its not just these vehicles you make though

[young geyser]

Get some feedback from some of your beta testers, release your assets as a private mod for them to try. Only then will you know. Devs usually love their assets and work so much they feel the quality is top notch

[knotty ore]

theres also weapons, uniforms, other gear, buildings map,