suggestion-discussion

[jolly leaf]

Kinda

[ashen canyon]

I mean yes and no, depends on the individual warlock.

[granite knot]

It definitely is impactful, imagine cleric trying to cast a spell but can't when you don't have enough knowledge, plus less agility.

[icy knot]

yea, I might be fishing for unnecessary changes

[jolly leaf]

As usual xD

[icy knot]

❤️

[broken rapids]

Seems like nothing happened since i got back from vacation.

Ice Breaking

• make it possible with pickaxe

Rogue
Weakpoint - make it somehow work vs mobs like shriek. (%to players like it is, +flat to mobs like shriek)

Consider stat cap at all Classes by roles

• this might help with balance maybe

[bold isle]

I think Rogue and Ranger need to be reworked.

[ashen canyon]

I found out that you can in fact break ice with a halberd not too long ago. Takes three swings though

I know your post is about pickaxes but still knowledge that I didn’t know and wanted to share

[lilac garden]

you can break ice with a morning star

[plucky sky]

worst decision ever turn 100 market slots on 10 / 30

[icy knot]

@keen onyx don't forget to buff wizard hat, so it's worth using instead of headpiece with Will.

[icy knot]

Good decision

[icy knot]

Wizards stack a lot of Knowledge and Vigor.
Maybe Wizard hat needs these stats?

[bold isle]

Change all classes' rest to be similar to Wizard's Meditation.

Long rests are no fun, but games need rests.
It's not just because it's DnD, but proper rest is good design. It makes the player feel like they're taking a break from the intense dungeon, and it makes them feel like they're actually exploring. After all, exploring rests are bound to follow.

My idea is that rest gives a lot of healing if taken even a little bit, but instead has a cooldown. Also rest needs to be completed completely, and if you cancel it midway rest won't give you any healing.

There are several utilities in the game that can help with rest, but I don't think this is a good idea. It's a hassle to have to collect utilities, and the effects also vary depending on the rarity.

After rest goes through these changes, I hope to see more gauges (like second wind) being able to charge, and more classes being designed to require rest.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/636032

Change the campfire into an interactable object rather than a utility.

Campfires are a very important rest element, not only in this game but in many games and real-life adventures.

But now in the game, it feels like just a utility that 'needs to be installed and rested in a cumbersome manner'.

Change rest as written in this suggestion ( darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/636032 ),
Do not allow players to carry campfires.

and
Place ember objects that allow player to set up campfires throughout the map.
When the players interacts with them, the campfire will start to be placed, and player don't need to have the campfire item.

ember objects exist in most modules, but they should not be placed randomly anywhere. Ember should only be placed in narrow spaces that feel cozy and safe, or in places where the scenery is nice and safe to rest.

And there should be firewood strewn around the ember as if players could make a campfire right away.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/636038

[icy knot]

Fog of war is removed or exits are revealed at the end of the match:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/635997/simple-fog-of-war-solution

Good solution for Adventure Mode

[lilac garden]

who thought is a good that perk buffs should be invisible when you are standing still

if everyone landmines, they can't landmine each other kind of shit

[ripe turtle]

I was thinking different weapon and armor skin variations for different map themes like frost mountains have frozen, rusty weapons. https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/636060/weapon-and-armor-skin-variations-for-different-map-themes < Leave a vote if you like the idea!

[icy knot]

By the way are poor grade weapons rusty?

Longsword looks rusty
Falchion doesn't look rusty
Does Castilion look rusty?
I can't tell I'm on a phone

Why not give poor as well as common graded items some other types of damages: dent, crack, bend tip

[ripe turtle]

Why are you so damn genius?? Broken sword doing pierce damage and with different moveset. @icy knot Give me more ideas!

[icy knot]

Lol
You are right there could be more weapons if there were just broken

But if that's gonna happen, is there supposed to be legendary broken sword?

[ripe turtle]

As for Druid problem, shapeshifting should be a separate build completely. If you're going feral you get all the benefits of transformations but won't be able to cast spells. Also changing into rat or chicken form should put those specific skills on cooldown aswell. This way we don't see Druids getting easy way out of combat, they need to drink potions and roll bandages like every other class.

[ripe turtle]

Could be, even the best weapons break. Or let's say....cursed? Or bent.

[meager jasper]

Let's remove druid's ability to cast spells, knowing full well healer druid isn't viable right now because it got gutted
Let's remove the one clear advantage shapeshifter even has

The absolute state of people in this chat sometimes. I'm glad they seem to be ignoring people like yourself.

[ripe turtle]

We can agree to disagree.

[meager jasper]

We can. And I will disagree loudly, just in case anyone gets the wrong idea and you manage to create a little echo chamber bubble that the devs actually pay attention to.

It's nothing personal, you're just so wrong about druid it isn't even funny. Druid isn't even actually in a good space right now without unique shenanigans. I thought it might be, but it isn't. The only thing it even has going for it right now is in solo play, it's really strong. But it's mediocre in trios, and only servicable in duos. You're better with other classes broadly.

Just another person who doesn't know how to fight a class with a different body model complaining. I'd really like to see people like you actually fight. Every time I do get vids, they've always made some sort of huge tactical mistake right away.

[ripe turtle]

Hehe, oh it will become personal once the Druid gets the rework. Druid is broken, hitboxes are terrible, teleporting from place to place without penalties, healing is way too powerful etc. So yes, your biased opinion is just not gonna help the situation. This Druid toxic meta needs to stop.

[meager jasper]

They fixed the hitboxes, I've repeatedly said I agree chicken-panther jump should be removed, and healing is not even remotely as powerful as in the hands of a cleric. By all means, continue to expose your bias.

Literal examples of you twisting a narrative and actively lying

Also, magical healing is something that needs investment into. Shapeshifter broadly doesn't. They'd rather focus on survivability or action speed.

Of course you know this. You know that most druids cannot just inexplicably run perfect str+agi+magical healing+max hp builds all at the same time. And that there aren't even that many druids that even play this game, they're an underplayed class specifically because of the skill requirement to learn shapeshifting at the right time.

[icy knot]

@ripe turtle
In Black Panther movie Erik Killmonger broke a spear to create some kind of African dual wield weapon. But that might be too much for medieval fantasy.

[meager jasper]

You know I think I can count on one hand the amount of enemy druids I've even seen this wipe, now that I think about it.

[ripe turtle]

Possibilities are endless. If only Ironmace got money, resources and Nexon out of the picture this game could reach outcomes that are considered impossible for AAA gaming studios. Imagine gaming companies now trying to sell their games with over 80 euro price tag. Totally nuts.

[brisk junco]

yeah 100%

[ashen canyon]

It's not so much the healing that is the problem, it's the healing combined with the mobility. They have an unmatched ability to be able to disengage and heal back up before whomever their fighting can, thats the problem. The healing alone isnt a problem take away wildshape (Like they did with the healing perk they gave them) And they become a non issue. Or vice versa take away the healing and leave the shapeshift and they become a non issue.

and i'll say I have no problem with them having 1 or 2 heals and being able to do the whole charade once before they can't anymore, it's the fact that they can fight, run away and heal and come back about 2-3 times that bothers me.

[brisk junco]

blue surgical and u can do this on anyone tho; like anytime they use said mobility they are weak u can out trade them in any form but bear as any class

[lilac garden]

Instead of barbarian skills acting as a buff to the next hit, make the skill be an attack. Like achilles, reckless and blood exchange. So when you press your skill keybind you are also attacking with the weapon and it applies the extra damage/debuff/armor penetration instead of activating the skill and using it on your next hit with your mouse.

[icy knot]

Shapeshift needs some kind of penalty, devs need to figure out what kind

[muted rapids]

WARLOCK NEEDS some build diversity. Life drain mastery (?), let us walk while channeling lifedrain like ray of darkness. Curselock is aids, we need more diversity in the warlock workplace

[meager jasper]

It's laughable to think this when warlock exists.

And while we're at it, it's laughable to think this when warlock exists, and druid is one of the few meta-regulators for it.

[icy knot]

yeti needs to be nerfed

if you are a slow class or any class without fire damage you have the worst thing in the game on you 24/7

[ashen canyon]

The problem doesn’t exist for warlock because he doesn’t have the same mobility, I can walk up and catch a warlock, or force him to run through doors, open and close etc, mouse just jumps through most doors and then heals up. Warlock has the counter play Druid does not. Imo

[granite knot]

Warlocks have shapeshift?

[ashen canyon]

Technically yes, but not instant.

[granite knot]

Can warlocks change hitbox and jump away from you or engage in combat at will?

[meager jasper]

Just a reminder that panther cannot reach movement cap while warlocks can, and also, they can phantomize

Rat is also extremely easily countered by a number of classes. If you really think they're a problem, why don't you just bring the explosive bottle next time, if by chance you're one of the few classes that cannot?

The game gives you all the tools you need to deal with any druid. Yet people continue to pretend they're somehow insurmountable, and then they get frustrated, and make bad decisions in combat, then come on here and just complain about how their failings are not their own.

[granite knot]

Just a reminder panther has a gap closer, warlock doesn't.
Just a reminder rat form got buffed, so they can't be killed by molotov anymore.

But hey, weak class, am I right?

[meager jasper]

Phantomize can be used as a gap closer, I've had it used that way on me before. But yeah, you appear every time to just outright lie about druid's capabilities and when you get asked for evidence you redirect instead of doing what you've been asked for.

[ashen canyon]

Ray isn’t a problem on its own, it’s the quick rapid shifts that’s the problem, you can throw an explosive bottle and he can jump and change to panther before he hits the ground.

[meager jasper]

Lol you're complaining about someone turning into a panther with that much impressive reflexive play? They deserve to live, and it doesn't change that they can't turn into a rat while that's the case.

It's called counterplay.

[ashen canyon]

No, I’m complaining about having instant shift that’s what I’m complaining about

[meager jasper]

No, you're not.

[ashen canyon]

You’re not me guy, you don’t get to make those calls.

[meager jasper]

Go and re-read what you wrote. If you want to address why instant-shapeshift is bad please do that directly.

[ashen canyon]

I addressed healing with instant shape shift being the problem from the start.

[meager jasper]

Besides, attacking that aspect of druids is completely cringe as well, allow me to retort: Druid doesn't even work without it.

Cooldowns is not instant shapeshift. Maybe you should stop and reconsider what exactly your stance is?

[ashen canyon]

Who shit in your Cheerios guy, calm the fuck down.

[meager jasper]

I'm trying to be polite and considerate. I'm not angry with you, I'm offering you the consideration that maybe you don't fully know what you're arguing.

Do you or do you not know that shapeshifter druid doesn't work without instant shapeshifting right now? Mostly because of the body-blocking effect that happens?

[ashen canyon]

I’m not in any way saying it shouldn’t be a playable class, I think currently it’s overturned a bit and needs to be tweaked, maybe a delay between shifts with instant shapeshift?

You say your being polite and considerate but your being argumentative and confrontational, you may not be meaning to but you are.

[granite knot]

Oh, you just made a mistake. You'll see why.

[meager jasper]

I've seen so many people try to make out that disagreement is somehow always angry by the way. This is not a confrontation, this is a retort. It's you that needs to stop taking things personally.

[ashen canyon]

I’ll give you that, maybe I am feeling attacked by it, and for that I do apologize.

[meager jasper]

Your stance is absolutely something I see as foolish, to be clear. But I have no personal gripe with you.

I do absolutely see so many people say druid is a certain way and at the same time not really understand it. If my tone comes across as frustrated, it is to a degree. But no I have zero beef with you.

I'm not a druid main. I haven't even played it this season, really. I got it to twenty then left it for sorc, which I'm having more fun with.

But when people come in here and say things that are patently false or would actively make the class unplayable, that is absolutely a problem when it's constant.

Coldcoder has claimed that he has, for instance, played druid and rolled entire lobbies easily in HR. I don't believe him. I really do think you should try playing panther-only druid and see if you can do some of the things the people you think are a problem can do.

It's very much the same thing as being rolled by an incredible wizard in my opinion. In a perfect situation druid is one of the strongest classes. But only in the perfect situation and in perfect hands.

Now that's not to say I even agree with the design of wizard or druid. I actually dislike several things about them. But instant shapeshift? Right now that is a bandaid on the fact we can't shapeshift if we're too close to any object. Unless we get bouncing hitbox mechanics that needs to stay, absolutely or shapeshifter is hard ruined, and I'm not exaggerating.

[ashen canyon]

I can agree to that, but they could easily
Put a number of times available to shapeshift before needing to campfire to regain them. And it doesn’t need to be a low number

[meager jasper]

One of my main gripes with wizard is that I don't like rest mechanics being mandatory, I'm not a fan of them. So we have very different takes there.

[ashen canyon]

Potions of clarity make it not mandatory

[meager jasper]

I'd much rather if they were going to allow bouncing hitboxes that the cooldowns were just really high. Or a more nuanced system where forms get empowered the less flexible you are - ie perks that make them viable in the first place.

Nerfs are rarely palatable, and honestly, I don't think druid is in a bad state at all, and would challenge you on that. The only problem with druid I have is the jumping lunge with chicken-panther, and only because that lets them effectively fly.

The truth is, I think they should stop focusing on class balance entirely, and focus on real content additions.

Because there's always going to be something that comes out ahead in a meta. That's just a fact of any asymmetrical system.

[ashen canyon]

True enough

[pale dust]

We need sbmm and the lower beginner lobbies should have bots that help players build confidence.

[ashen canyon]

Bots are only a confidence builder when you face nothing but bots. The second you get into actual PvP you would be destroyed and not know why

[icy knot]

that's good idea.
can devs program bots?

@keen onyx
Bots can give an illusion that dungeon is full of players

[pale dust]

Nah, check out naraka bladepoint for an example, in the early ranks you face alot of bots and by the time youre fighting 100% real people the transition is so smoothe you cant really tell a difference, They can make cracked out bots. It doesnt have to be just derpy bots.

[pale dust]

They would have to be a lil better than the AI of some mobs, but yea lol

[abstract bone]

ah ah ah. can't be having that gotta buff up warlocks till their the best class in the game.

[granite knot]

Druid complaining about warlock, hilarious

Warlocks need diversity, not buffs.

[vivid warren]

guys who is anti cheat lead in dnd

[untold lynx]

You are now @vivid warren

[past badger]

druids op gut it

[paper apex]

How can anyone complain about Druid when cleric exists the way it does rn lmao. Play Druid and learn how to counter it. Anytime I’m on my barb/fighter, Druid is a free kill. Also, the game is balanced around trios as it should be, which by the way, Druid is mid at.

[granite knot]

Cleric doesn't have mobility unlike druid.

[vestal sandal]

Good druid should win againt most other good players of other classes most of the time.
Though cleric is the best melee class, druid is just too good at everything.

[bold isle]

I feel like the Merchants' quests don't fit with the game and the design isn't very good.
Tarkov impressed me greatly with its quests while playing, because Tarkov's quests make up for the shortcomings of the game called Tarkov. The quests in this game are similar to Tarkov, but the gameplay is so different from Tarkov that it only has a detrimental effect. @dawn grotto

[icy knot]

Tell me what is wrong
And what can be improved

[bold isle]

I believe you understand. I mean, it's pretty tiring to yell at a wall.

Am I expecting too much? Don't other people think the quest design is sloppy?

[icy knot]

I don't do that much questing this season so I can't tell much.

But I think killing Demon Fly is the best quest in the game.

I also think that some finding room quests should be replaced with do something in that room. So instead of finding inferno cage room(one with gold pile) there should be quest to open cage in inferno cage room so player has to do something in that room.

[bold isle]

Sorry, what I just said was, Ironmace is so unresponsive to player feedback that I'm tired of explaining things at length.

[icy knot]

They are listening trust me

@keen onyx @full tulip @dawn grotto
Druid's rat form has plague effect. #warlock message
Can Warlock get weaker but longer-lasting version of it, with mechanic that makes it spread(after target's death)?

For balance purposes don't make it work with Torture Mastery?

[bold isle]

I already pointed out to Ironmace the problem with the game's quests before.

But Ironmace made players do the cockatrice quest in a dungeon with FoW, and eventually FoW disappeared.

I think Ironmace listens to players, but I think there are exceptions. When players criticize content that Ironmace creates, Ironmace gets angry and refuses to listen.

To criticize Ironmace-created content like quests or classes, you need to have game development knowledge that goes beyond Ironmace.
When players who aren't like that criticize Ironmace, they think, "We know it's not fun, but we did our best," and close their ears.

So the way I make suggestions is basically the same as begging or pleading. Because I think Ironmace is a monster that has fallen into The Banality of Hardcore.

[icy knot]

Also buff rat form plague.

The risk player is taking when attacking with rat form is not worth for such a weak and short effect.

I think plague should last longer but tick less often

[meager jasper]

Why is the "do not fill empty party member slots" not usable in HR? When did that happen?

That's hilarious. They obviously did that because they couldn't just... add class requirements for matchmaking because it circumvented the class mixes.

[echo gorge]

SUGGESTION: add a "Ready" button while in transit from 1 level to the next to speed things up

[verbal nimbus]

@keen onyx you stop working ? 2 weeks with no uptade omg

[jolly leaf]

They told us like a month or two ago that from now hotfix wouldn't be weekly anymore but more delayed

[abstract bone]

remove true damage from the game and rework armor pen and magic pen

[abstract bone]

add the ability to report from the player list in the trading post.

[neat tartan]

Give Warlocks the Kris dagger again. The Kris dagger is a sacrificial dagger. Warlocks sacrifice hp to cast spells. And crystal ball plus Kris goes hard

[ashen canyon]

there is, you right click the message and it shows report

[abstract bone]

i'm talking from the player list for the guys who attempt to scam with artifacts but say nothing.

[ashen canyon]

They have so many measures in place that if you get scammed that way your the one at fault.

[abstract bone]

i didn't get scammed but he's hopped onto 6 different characters to attempt a Life after death trade cancels puts double axe and then spams

blocking em is only temporaily solving the issue.

[abstract bone]

and also saying that we shouldn't have a way to report scammers is wild. found the scammer main who doesn't wanna get punished for being a scummy person.

[ashen canyon]

ahaha sure my guy i didn't say it shouldnt be reportable, i said its your fault if you get scammed that way, i dont even have any uniques to try and scam people with lol

[ripe turtle]

Hmmm, what do you guys think about saying magic words out loud while casting spells? For example Wizard casting a fireball and the character says something cryptic out loud. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzyXOfVOcV0 < something like this.

[hollow flame]

@keen onyx should cashout and let other people take this idea forward. We need competent programmers on this game's development.

[icy knot]

IM is doing better than ever. No more game breaking patches like before

we just need dungeon content

• classes content

[brisk junco]

@sdf should cashout and let other people take this idea forward. We need competent programmers on this game's development.

[acoustic elm]

please removed the fricking slowmode from lfg channel. Mad annoying to post a lfg for duos have someone join that doesnt end up playing and now i have to sit here for 4 minutes waiting to be able to post again

[wraith ravine]

Demon platelock isn't necessarily meta, but if you're gonna have fun it's kinda peak

[bold isle]

@dawn grotto
Telling the player the merchant's story through quests without explaining the game's worldview is like asking a baby who can't even walk to run.
Quests in the game should not be made into 'content with the purpose of adding content' (perfectionist content, to put it in sdf style) like Achievements.
Quests are an important device that immerses players in the game, so they should be designed with more careful consideration.

[summer plover]

can you buff the oil lantern ( I think one lantern suppose to give more light ) I have real one at home and is rely bright compare to one in game

[pseudo prism]

IMPLEMENT A QUE FOR ALL MAPS

ANY MAP

EVERY MAP

[icy knot]

Elaborate

I don't think you devs realize it yet but you gave players free legendary pickaxe at the begining of the season.
It is being used on Adventure mode 24/7 without any risk of losing it to mine ores extremely fast.

[icy knot]

@keen onyx @full tulip @dawn grotto

• Why not make it so you need Sickle to gather Herbs quickly?
• Why not make it so you can also use swords/daggers to do it, but its slow process?
• If you gather herbs by hand, it takes a long time?
• If you are not wearing hand protection, you may take damage from thorns (like the Black Rose) or because the plant is poisonous. Maybe player needs some special gloves for protection?

GATHERING HERBS IMMERSION INCREASED TO 100

[icy knot]

@dawn grotto
#the-tavern message
One more thing I was curious about, if you could add something to do in the Gathering Hall, what would it be?
If our Lord is referring to Gathering Hall where you can find players to play with, I think there should be an option to leave a notice, similar to Marketplace, where you can describe:

• what you are looking for,
• what class you play
• how many in-game hours you have
• what mode do you want to play,

Some players don't use Discord, so having this feature would greatly help them find players with the same interests.

[rustic glade]

I'm sad, now that I play druid there is no class that I can't beat 1v1, it takes away the fun of the game 😦

[dark lynx]

Hey few suggestion want to toss out so at least I can say I tried to help, chance are will never be read anyway.

• Make 3 brackets only and get rid of Adventure mode replace with a “training map”. The Brackets Should be 0-24 (New Players and Players Who don’t have coffers of gear can compete a competitive level) 25-224 and 225+. People will min max any bracket inbetween squire gear and no limit so no reason to make so many.
• For the 0-24 bracket limit certain gear and items so sweat players do not flood looking for ez Low Risk High reward loot. In 0-24 Blue should be max drop from monsters and purple should be max drop from bosses. No bosses should drop things like troll blood/High Crafting item in the beginner bracket to push sweats out from abusing. The brackets should act like stepping stones. 0-24 where you get gear for 25-224 (max from bosses should be Orange) and 225+ where you get you omg big boy items (gold+artifacts).
• The training map should be for a player and who they want in their party to practice on mobs and bosses with no risk no reward. It is just a place where you can go in and slap a boss to learn/theory craft builds/test gear/ Maybe have someway to generate gear with stats so players can also test builds. (Again nothing in training leaves training). Also by working on something like this might be able to open up the ability for players to be able to run tournaments etcs with friends.

• There are way to many ques. Lets be honest, there is no reason for goblin caves should have a trio que. The map came out as a Solo Paradise. Make it solo Only. Look for ways to trim fat off of the ques. Look for ways to make players want to play a map. Like one weekend the treasure goblin has been seen in Gobo Caves and for this week there will be bonus loot for Fri/Sat/Sun. or something like The Black Knight has challenge all players in ruins on Sat for 3-6pm where only 1 team can survive. No Portals Closing Circle last one standing is rewarded with a Great item and their lives. There is legitly so much you can do to make people want to play.
• STOP MAKING ALL THE CLASSES THE SAME. I have 1 of all classes and most of them play the exact same. If you want a chance in higher brackets your forced into building certain builds. Like Right now my Cleric, My Warlock and my mage are pretty much the same. Stack MS and go Smite/BoC/Ignite which pretty much the same thing over all the classes. They are all blending together at this point and loosing what makes them unique.
  Again I hope it catches your eye and you take some of it into consideration. Hope everything works out as you plan and Dark and Darker

[spring copper]

Please add more to adventure mode. I enjoy the current state but I would love a bigger challenge for a bigger reward (like high roller enemies or gearscore caps)

[icy knot]

My opinion:

Most of the time I played PVP in 0-24 because it was the lowest bracket, maybe I had some gear fear or smt but I really liked to enter another game without need to gear up. When they changed 0-24 to Adventure mode I didn't touch this mode at all.

I really like playing 0-124gs bracket as I lose nothing to earn something. Gear difference there really isn't an issue for me as I am player with a lot of experience and knowledge. I love killing min maxers it's the easiest 💰 maker, especially with Torture Mastery being this strong.

[broken rapids]

Remove "Game is running" while re-connecting to crashed game to make it faster to re-log.

(btw anyone else getting AMD GPU game crash at Ruins? other games like CBP2077 etc running max settings... but here I have sometimes problem).

[icy knot]

@keen onyx @full tulip
What if there were more Pickaxes in the game, like in Minecraft?

Let's say you can't mine Froststone Ore if you don't have Cobalt Pickaxe. And Cobalt Pickaxe can only be created later in the season. This would make it so people could not farm valuable ores earlier.

I was also thinking about Pickaxes losing durability over time, but if would not add much to the game.

[broken rapids]

I want possibility to break ice with pickaxes

[icy knot]

Make a loot room you have to mine into.

[bold isle]

I think the Pickaxes should be reduced because utilities are a hassle to carry.

@keen onyx, do you really think the game will work properly after adding water map queue to the game?
With such a small player count?

[icy knot]

Well they have to release water map at this point.

The decision to make it was a mistake.

At least after it is done they will have lots of time to focus on Dungeon content unless they decide to make another map for some reason

[bold isle]

Because of the special feature of the 'Water' map, it seems like there will be many problems like Ruin. If that happens, many people will be busy solving the problems, and there will be no time to develop game content.

[icy knot]

Why is Steam Player Number crashing? 📉
Is it be due to a lack of content? or High Gear problems?

We were doing so well in comparison to last season.

[bold isle]

I don't know the exact cause.
It's clear that the rate of decline in the number of players is different than before.
Not only the total number of players, but also the rate of decline has accelerated.

It could be because a new Extraction shooter game was released. If that's the case, then there won't be any more new players for this game.

[icy knot]

This season has clearly some issues:

• Adventure mode: entire server boss farming
• High Roller: Boss ratting
• Move speed gear changes for entire season #game-discussion message

Fog of War eased first 2 issues
SSF was great untill marketplace was added allowing players to build best kits in the game.

[lilac garden]

make a perk for barbarian that ignores impact zone % :D :D :DDD:D:D

[bold isle]

@keen onyx @full tulip
Please give me the internal email of the map designer. I will never write an email like "You are a horrible developer who is not being cursed at because of the monster designer"

[prisma dock]

Or ya could do hr and get 6 times in each node

[dark lynx]

People are requesting little things that will not impact the enjoyment of the game.noone cares about Sicles/Pickaxe Diffrence/ New small niche things when the game has so many glaringing issues. 27 diffrent lobbies/Abusing thing like adventure where you can get all the big gear with no risk, etc... I would go on a rampage if a diamond pick axe was put in the game over fixing bugs/making content/working on classes. Please do not give SDF any random ideas dude seems to have a hard time staying on one thing and making it workable.....

[solar robin]

Remove duplicate classes from solo queuing in Trios HR and Arena. Running into a team of three druids third partying boss is too much and having multiple of the same class in arena is lame.

[abstract bone]

it's a good thing SDF ignores the suggestion discussion.

[stark ridge]

Remove Hydra bump on adventure mode for people griefing the treasure pile

Have it so that the person who does the most damage gets the boss loot on Adventure Mode

[abstract bone]

hydra/rock/tree all need to not bump

[tawdry holly]

@keen onyx you should introduce a Hobbit Race and make it half the height of normal races but it gets bonus Agility (and maybe negative strength) and has a shorter jump height.

The Jump height and the shorter height are the nerfs, makes getting hit in the head real easy being short and shields will require a lot more skill to use.

[tawdry holly]

@keen onyx then you can work out how a Dwarf would balance in, probably slower with bonus str and vig but less agility.

[icy knot]

No we can't have little things that will not impact the enjoyment of the game

[tawdry holly]

Oh shit- give them 8 agility then. That’ll impact the enjoyment for sure. @keen onyx

[brisk junco]

always nice to pop in here get a good laugh @keen onyx buff cleric and druid pls

[verbal orbit]

Have anyone noticed that fire image on the new torch (the one with an eye) is very low-res and pixelated? Its like a low resolution GIF.

@keen onyx plz give us update on upcoming classes/races🙌

[barren grove]

i have a suggestion. drop the new quests because im tweaking

armorer had nothing for weeks and i need my cheap potions from alchemist

[fathom walrus]

I know it is probably in here but I have been playing a couple days now and noticed the "Fair and optimal experince" comment on the loading screen. Seems to me fair would be the same amount of time in a dungeon for everyone and it is less than optimal for me to join 8-10 min into a dungeon where something I want to do is all cleared out already.

[fathom walrus]

adventure mode tops out at epic the other dungeons have legendary and unique... I really like adventure mode but they need to stop with the continuous loading into the dungeon on all of them...

[abstract bone]

remove true damage from the game and rework armor/magic pen

[graceful jetty]

Can we not make every arena map ranger favored thanks sdf

[ashen leaf]

Some crafted armors need to be updated because the attributes do not match the base material, or because they simply do not contribute anything.
Examples:

• Golden Robe (gives Vigor and came from a armor piece that gives will and vigor)
• Cowl of Darkness (gives nothing of value other than aesthetic appearance)
• Shoes of Darkness (same has the one mentioned before)
• Cobalt Hood (gives Vigor and it came from a hat that gives Agy )
• Rubysilver Hood (same as the one before)
  Suggestion:
  Add the ability to choose the base stat of the crafted item, as long as it's possible to maintain balance. Changing this stat may require additional materials.
  Currently, there are only two craftable rings that grant Vigor and STR/Will.
  It would be good to add more craftable rings with the other tributes.
  Not just rings like the grimies, which have two main attributes as their base.
  But also other rings or necklaces with only one attribute.
  Especially if the SDF's plan is to implement the SSF system which he mentioned in Vincent's strean

[ocean oriole]

just stumbled upon this...I got my first gold chest like this. maybe a solution to this is don't queue with randoms if you're scared to lose your loot to them n jus play solos or with friends

[icy knot]

Don't add durability to gear. It's annoying mechanic

Could only help with amount of gear on the market

[dark lynx]

There should be no PvE only with other players it a PvP game. if they are going to doe PvE then they should allow solo load in

[bold isle]

The game needs to add a durability system. But it needs to be applied carefully.

[icy knot]

"Needs" is a wrong word here.

I played with 2 games that had this system Dying light and Minecraft.

Dying light was a nightmare, weapons were constantly braking it was so annoying and you could only repair weapon few times.

Minecraft was somewhat okey but it wasn't a problem as you could always punch with your hand.

Durability system would add

• realism to the game
• way to spend money(repairs)
• but could be annoying if done incorrectly

To be honest there is so little to do in this game that making players care about their weapons would increase play time so it's worth it.

[bold isle]

Yeah, I know what you want to say.
However, there are some issues that can only be solved by adding a Durability system.
We all know the pros and cons of the Durability system, and Ironmace probably knows it too.

[jolly leaf]

It would be way more interesting in SSF too. Are a with a marketplace where you can't buy gear, only potion, ore etc

[stable mango]

MAKE AN OPTION TO TURN OFF THE CHAT IN ARENA

[icy knot]

There should be no chat in arena to prevent toxicity

[slender salmon]

arena bug after game can't swap class!

[coral heron]

the fact that ppl in adventure mode have to fight for portals in IC hell on adventure mode is a joke.

[icy knot]

Wrong chat

[meager jasper]

@keen onyx So instead of nerfing panther mobility like literally everyone asked for you gave us a flat -50% to all healing into the negative. While buffing the panther to have multiple charges. Are you insane?

Another example of extreme flip-flopping by the way. There was a time when druid had literally no scaling to its healing and now you've literally put us at negative scaling for no reason.

Nearly missed that at the bottom. So now it's back to being gear rarity based. Which we've already done, and was bad. Okay. Yet another example.

Stop listening to people crying about 'min-maxing' when builds are this game's bread and butter. Your changes were already trash. Gear has never been better than it was before you made the changes during the OP-uniques patch.

[broken rapids]

Maybe Stat cap classes instead of constant weapon changing etc?
Classes doesnt feel unique at this point at all.

[weary prairie]

seems like a Figher/bard Stance

[pseudo prism]

"Dagger Mastery physical damage bonus changed from 15% to 10%." HOW MANY TIMES HAS THIS BEEN CHANGED L,MAO LMFAO

[broken rapids]

As Rogue main i feel the pain if someone meets me with my 170hp tank rogue etc :)) (its wrong! rogue shoudnt be this tanky..)
its same meet clerik with 330ms weapon out and so much more.

[round pawn]

Just give Nexon the game

[pseudo prism]

well they did "nerf" or revert the rog. why not change axe mastery bonus damage AGAIN for good measure

[icy knot]

yea that's one thing that looked weird to me, maybe panther got nerfed in other areas so it had to be done.

But over all patch looks very High Quality to me

[icy knot]

true

[abstract bone]

it's a shame right. people couldn't quit crying about druids now they have infinite mobility.

[brisk junco]

wooooo more terrible decisions by devs great work @keen onyx

[icy knot]

you wanted Druid buffs. What side are you on? Nexon?

[abstract bone]

i wanted druid to remain the way it was but wanted true damage removed and armor/magic pen reworked lmao. true damage is half the reason why pvp is so unfun for everyone

[granite knot]

No way, we both want the same thing? Is it reality or just illusion?

Hard to tell at this point

[coral heron]

Why are they nerfing sorc into the ground while buffing barb?

[icy knot]

Savage takes 30 move speed from a target for 6seconds

oh my bad wanted to ask how bad is sorc

[coral heron]

maybe im misunderstanding but it just seems weird how they keep nerfing something ppl dont realy play and buffing something ppl do play.

[coral heron]

time distortion now does -15% damage per spell cast, can stack upto 10, has a cooldown.

also, it seems that they increased all cooldowns

[icy knot]

I'm sad about staffs they were a bit strong but at the same time unplayable. Its short range and slow addimation makes it very hard to play with.

But I guess casters can't have possibility to counter W key meta.

[icy knot]

I really like this

• All Sorcerer spells now have a casting time of 0.75 seconds.
• All Sorcerer spells now have a cooldown of (Tier×3)+3 seconds.
  even tho it needs some adjustments

[silver yoke]

👎

[icy knot]

I'm guessing panther cooldown of a dash hasn't been change at all, just like with rogue's past Hide change
🇱

[young silo]

error 56 anyone else?

[teal arch]

is there a way to bind the lockpick button (space bar) to another key?

[umbral wyvern]

we need more middle fingers in the patchnotes!

[neat tartan]

You guys have such high iqs. You really buffed barbs...

Yall need to focus on content and stop fucking shit up mid season

Barbs already fucking nuts with 330ms, and now you buff em even more. My god

[meager jasper]

They are trying to force balance in trios, at the expense of everything else I think. Which is foolish. It's massively better to make sure all classes have a niche, and are not oppressive, than actually making sure they have favourable outcomes in one style of match.

This throws solos under the bus in exchange for slightly more balance in trios. But if barb was not great in trios in the first place without being buff-balled... so what? They are one of the most reliable solo classes. They perform well in duos as well, where their natural stat advantages over most other melee classes can shine a bit more.

It's weird, because they're not designing that way in terms of the maps. Each map now has its own resistances, and it's better for it. It means that sorcerers are better when they can use fire on ice mobs or ice on inferno demons, but they're quite bad or unfavoured in GC. Giving a class strengths and weaknesses they can capitalize on or overcome is part of what makes a class interesting, and you can't force balance just in one place like this without it having big knock-on effects.

Like, imagine if they had to make it so all of the Castle maps now needed to have favourable outcomes for all classes. That would be equally as puzzling. There's nothing wrong with a class being better on a different map so why should it matter that trios be abjectly perfectly balanced in a game that's all about class asymmetry? The logic just doesn't make sense.

I increasingly think these devs only play trios in a very narrow way. And that makes sense, because clearly SDF doesn't think druid is strong enough somehow. And even I think that's ludicrous, when I've defended druid dozens of times.

[strong cedar]

@keen onyx 2 Panther leaps? Are you purposely trolling your community and throwing your game in the bin now? FFS

Someone please tell me there is a catch to this and isn’t as it sounds, beyond stupid if it is

[paper inlet]

Honestly just give me a offline mode. We already got pve. Give me a $15 version of the game that is separate and only offline

[icy knot]

Such drastic changes have been made mid-season to the Barbarian due to the MS meta driven by gear. Everything will need to be rebalanced or reverted in next season because gear will probably be reverted back or SDF will have another Vision.

It’s a waste of time and money for the company.

Everything could be avoided if the people making these changes were actual players who UNDERSTAND the game.

[broken rapids]

I feel sad about this thread, becuase there is none of suggested things in any hotfix. 🙂
..and here are some real good ideas tho.

Best example is promised Bola swing for barbarians etc..
Instead of add such a easy made item, they add AoE shout which requires 0 skill to land.
"Savage Roar also reduces the target's movement speed by 10%."

[weak tartan]

pro move, revert this patch

[muted mortar]

I would suggest not allowing an Arena team to be 3 WIZARDS

[young silo]

Need to go back to gear score instead of rarity

[broken rapids]

Actually rarity feels kinda nice to me.
what doesnt feel nice is change of "mode" from Dungeon crawl to BR circle if I go epic+ stuff.
(I wish for Fog of War comeback)

[white anchor]

well when the barb meta comes a knocking its always a good time to take a break. Classic DaD. How the pendulum swings.

[plain schooner]

the catch is damage and healing was gutted on druid. damage numbers almost got halfed across the board. healing got 50% mpb reduction and bear left click swing is so much slower/clunkier. also chicken caught another stray nerf. but WAHHH druid pls nerf again WAHHHH

[marsh crow]

might as well just delete the class. or bring it in and rework it. at the end of the day, it's a terrible class design that will never have a middle ground in this game.

[plain schooner]

REEEE DRUIDS SCARE ME REEEEEEE

[marsh crow]

hey i say the same thing about Warlocks, so its whateves. SDF is intentionally bleeding his player base further every wipe anyway so 🤷

[marsh crow]

been at a break for 2 full wipes and i come back to SDF bringing back full MS and Barb ultra buff. sad times.

[hot merlin]

I know its probably been said before but ....... Remove that dumb pay to win stuff that you guys promised to never put on in your game. What a letdown

[marsh crow]

i dont think its really that big of a deal imo. i personally support the battlepass, if thats what youre referring to. theres nothing in there that puts anyone else at a major advantage.

and stash wise, you can just create another bank alt anyway.

[hot merlin]

They still promised to never sell stuff so that ppl could get ahead only cosmetics and thats a big L imo. I feel like they lied to us and its a letdown. I might be from a minority but dont promise stuff that you wont respect. Thanks

[marsh crow]

hmmm, it doesnt really put anyone ahead though. its so miniscule. i get this new thing sets a bad look for the future but atm, the advantage this gives players is so miniscule.

[hot merlin]

Fair enough. Still I feel not respected in a way. They still betrayed what they said to their community and to me its a form of disrespect. Even if it's miniscule ^^

They have to show proper etiquette it counts a lot to people (I think)

[marsh crow]

meh, id have to see the source or link when they said stuff like battlepass would never happen. but im pretty sure they annouced the BP a good amount of time before it went live.

[hot merlin]

i cant post because its considered spam but one search with open ai will tell you that they confirmed that there will never be a form of pay 2 win in the game only cosmetics and battle pass (cosmetic only) which clearly they lied even if its just a small advantage.

[marsh crow]

fair enough. P2W is still defined P2W. we'll have to wait and see next wipe's BP then i guess. hopefully its just some stack of meds+untradable bags like it is now 👀

[hot merlin]

Yes, I sure hope so too because it's a really nice game and I want them to have as much players as they can! ^^ I'm pretty sure some people would quit and it's already a niche playerbase.. Let's keep as much players as we can 😛 Have a great night sorry for the bothers

[coral viper]

I understand the desire to get away from gear score brackets, but slot-weighted gear score bracketing makes vastly more sense that simple overall gear tier limits. This is once again wrecking the economy and is horribly imbalanced

[winter idol]

I see that differently. Rarity based brackets was long overdue. Gs has two major problems:

1. Builds that require only one weapon (esp. A onehanded) and/or less armor (hatchet barbs fe.) are wrecking the balance. Rarity based is equalized regardless if you use a sec weapon or not or if you opt for savage.
2. I don't know if there is anyone out there enjoying building a kit around gs. To me and everyone I talked about it's a pain. Trying to optimise the shit out of different rarity gear + consumables just takes so much time that you don't actually play the game. Rarity based is far quicker equipping. With the same build variety but more equality.

Essentially rarity based makes each gamemode feels like hr2 in the way that you really hunt for the bis for you specific rarity, rather than having to wager for each item if it's good enough to sacrifice other gear peaces for. The loot reward mechanic for gs/rarity kept lobbies is now much clearer and with that more rewarding. If I find blue bis roled Lightfoots in norms, I know they are bis for the mode im playing. Period. No hesitation. And that's a major improvement in reward feeling imo.

[earnest granite]

.

[last escarp]

I just want new spells on wiz you said you wouldn’t forget wizard but you did i dont need fancy just let the class have levitate 1/2 charge and vortex1/2 tier 4 or 5 so cast wiz doesn’t just turn into magic missile spam

[lilac garden]

sorcerer should be able to cast with one hand while holding the longsword with the other hand

[granite knot]

LS is a two-hander

[lilac garden]

hold it on one hand for the cast and then hold it with both hands again

[polar temple]

@keen onyx maybe make execution perk work with bardiche? 💀

[lofty solstice]

Please add a search bar for status on stash. It would be nice to search a roll between a stash full of jewellery

[onyx pivot]

when can i craft crossbows with 2 true phys as a base stat

[meager jasper]

Predictably, even seeing a kitted druid is now a death sentence as a mage. Revert the stupid magic debuff. Remove the charges from leap. Then remove the chicken+panther jump interaction like you should have. This is stupid, and druid is incredibly op right now. @keen onyx

[wet belfry]

we need more no verbal communication things in the game for team strats like a **ping ** to know where to go as a team **when using the map **

[icy knot]

I'm guessing pings are too hard to program for them

[paper inlet]

i dont think solo que into arena should be allowed.

[abstract bone]

Y'know you could always leave too.

[paper inlet]

why is the chicken able to eat bugs in the air

[weak tartan]

Buff non longsword builds for fighter, add more silver weapons,

[hollow estuary]

you mean buff longsword builds for fighter

[gloomy fern]

how would we feel about getting rid of joining ongoing matches, making castle a 6x6 map, getting like 12-14 teams on it at the start, then making it so you can go floor to floor freely, even going up a floor if you want, the only real issue i see with this idea is that theyd have to either combine all 3 floors which would likely hurt the games performance or probably create a few bugs with loading screens as you move floors while every one in your lobby is still playing

[paper inlet]

Can we buff the bards din of darkness and piercing shrill i would love to see a caster bard

[subtle blaze]

buff ranger

[barren grove]

BRING BACK GEAR SCORE IM RUNNING INTO 300 GEAR SCORE KITS IN NORMALS. market crashed hard way to earn money. how do u play this now

[abstract bone]

getting good my man

[granite knot]

This is actually amazing idea

[dark lynx]

Just got to find solid peices and know which rooms are obv money farms. Like GY in Ruins makes solid money. There is skele in Gobo Cave they have alot of lootabale trinket areas. In gobo cave you can make 400-500 gold a few min if you hit the skele room and just dip

[barren grove]

where is skele?

[dark lynx]

pm u map

[thorn sphinx]

game is unplayable, just warlocks and barbs running around

[dark lynx]

Yea, I was about to strictly play my TM/Phant lock only cause there is so many barbs. Melee Classes cant do anything. The slow is the full 6s right you not gonna be able to do anything unelss u stay away or have a get out of jail card like phantomize

[digital pawn]

isn't the slow 9 seconds with treacherous lungs perk? 💀

also at the range of nearly a wizard's Zap (which is 8m) at 7.5m which is avtistic, it doesn't need to be aimed and comes out super fast and is also AoE

[limpid tapir]

Please remove AI from Arena mode! Why would you think anyone wants that????

[barren grove]

add bossing practice mode. bring back gear score because it was actually fair unlike playing vs 300gs kits all gemmed BIS vs someone who just got out of the actual squire normals

once ur out of money there is no way ur getting back into the rare gearbrackets and killing someone. u have to grind ultra hard in squire and pve to get a normals kit thats fair vs minmaxers from market ( and the market is horrible )

i had more fun on 0-124 because it was actually challenging yet nothing too crazy. u can still outskill someone with that kind of gear

[limpid tapir]

@barren grove I agree

[icy knot]

• Nerf Torture Mastery MH scaling to 10%
• buff Dark Enhancement to 15/20%
• buff Malice to 15%/20%

[broken rapids]

To be fair I have to say rarity lobbies are way more fun than before.

So good job devs.
@keen onyx

[vestal cloud]

why did they add that you can be suspended for 5 mins for leaving an arena game after it says defeat like wtf

[icy knot]

I agree. The best part is that you can enter with squire gear.

[ripe turtle]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/637718/paladin-oathbreaker-class-skill-suggestion < sigh I miss new classes. I'm still waiting for Monks, but Paladin could be the best/broken class. So to make things worse, here's my suggestion for Paladin skill. Leave a vote, if you like it!

[rustic glade]

Double jump needs nerf

[lilac garden]

you shouldn't be able to get in arena if you don't have more than 300 gear score

[lilac garden]

Double jump needs nerf

Buff every other class*

[rustic glade]

Double jump needs nerf x2

There’s a type of "rogue" class player that’s particularly annoying, disruptive, and unnecessary in dungeons. It’s the kind that only runs away, contributes nothing, focuses on collecting items and bothering parties. I still don’t get what’s fun about constantly hiding and escaping to inaccessible places using double jump. It’s a complete waste of time and a frustrating experience that SDF could easily spare everyone from.

[brisk junco]

Skill issue

[cunning saddle]

• Adjustments
  • Add levers besides red doors
  • Add fixed timers for certain interactions like opening blue portals, levers and regular doors
  • Bring back SSF and FoW
  • Buff gold income, items sold by merchants
  • Show resurrection
  • Show boss room and 3rd room on map with 2 bosses
  • Lock doors on Summon Bosses until the team kills the boss or dies
  • Adjust market, weapon and armor slot items can not be sold
  • Remove +All
  • Remove all Invisibility from the game
  • Normal game mode and PvE can only be played until level 20
  • Remove Ante
  • Add queue times up to 30 seconds max
  • Mob numbers are current normal gamemode numbers on lower bracket 0-224 and drops uncommon up to legendary items, and you don't need to summon the boss
  • Higher bracket drops rare up to unique/artifacts

• Nerfs
  • True damage
  • Druid movement
• Buffs
  • Certain unplayable skills and perks that are unplayable
    This game has potential. Start by tweaking not on flat numbers, but use percentages as well, 0.1-0.9 are just as important. Do not adjust a lot of things at the same time, like now with barbarian (hotfix #85). Realizing that the game is movement speed based will help in future buffs or nerfs, its unthinkable 65% PDR runs 330. Haven't given much thought to buffs and nerfs because they should not be a priority. Instead the focus should be put on why the game disfunctions and why it feels bad playing it at the moment.

[lilac garden]

the rogue should only be able to go invisible in places where there is no light

[brisk junco]

horrendous suggestions great work guys

[icy knot]

👍

[icy knot]

⬆️

[abstract bone]

Me on my way to cook the worst suggestions known to man.

[vapid mist]

can we get super rare gold portals that takes us to a pitch black maze with fog of war, with all artifacts and unique trinkets (no gear) loot with only 1 big blue portal in center and a minitour @dawn grotto think this would be pretty cool =]

[warm trail]

can you still get gold ore from golems? wiki doesnt show drop tables anymore

[bold isle]

@keen onyx
Back in the playtest days when combat wasn't fun, we had 100,000 players, but now that combat has become Apex, we only have 10,000 players. Does anyone know why?

[bold isle]

@keen onyx
How can you force a caster to rest? That's really anachronistic. It's 2025!!!

[chrome jungle]

is ptr abandoned? seems like its a few patches behind and hr is not available there

[spring copper]

I don't understand what's the beef with PvE that they want to restrict player access... my dudes do you actually believe a player that plays the game for the PvE part will enjoy PvP? The majority of them will leave the game after the PvE becomes stale. You are not gaining anything, just losing playerbase and the game losing potential revenue, which translates in you losing potential future content.

So just enjoy the extra popularity and the extra financial aid for the devs to work.

[lusty obsidian]

i lost all my stuff because i forgot to wait for the gobelin to bring it back, i had to go to eat

[lusty obsidian]

hype

[bold isle]

yet?

[icy knot]

Buff demon?
#warlock message

[cunning saddle]

Not all PvE players will stop. They will actually play the real gamemode, which is HR no doubt. But currently the game has so many problems it is just frustrating to play.

[spring copper]

sure, bet they are lining up for HR

[naive thicket]

• Give torch it's own keybinding, separate from utility slot
• Multiselect or highlight for stash to move groups of items
• Map Ping button

[broken rapids]

New merchant - Otto The dog

could carry potions/locks etc into upcoming levels as expressmans companion.
2-3 slots max.

[maiden stump]

turn druids pantera back, what the fuck, why he kills me so fast

[granite plinth]

where do you put the gold? in his mouth?

[cunning saddle]

Make fun of my suggestions all you want. I just know for a fact trying to please everyone will most likely please no one, and its exactly what is happening now. Too many queues, too many frustrating mechanics to deal with.

[broken rapids]

No, before lobby starts, so he can bring it during match. - merchant vendor.

Also je has little “pack”

[spring copper]

I agree, pleasing everyone is not a good practice. But the fact is pve and pvp people are mostly separate and you are not gonna gain more people on one side if you eliminate the other. But this way, the devs get more people and more funds to create a game that helps both. Features for one is features for both.

[icy knot]

@cunning saddle
I like your suggestion a lot and most people would agree with it.

#game-discussion message
Long time ago I was having fun with my duo friend where I was buffing druid Tree with Power of Sacrifice, realizing later it doesn't work at all, because Tree doesn't have vigor and strength.

@keen onyx @DEVS pls fix

[cunning saddle]

Thank you brother.

[barren grove]

make us be able to select regions again. its not fair for us who have friends in other countries and when we want to play in a server thats good for both of us we cant anymore. on top of that. the change is only for people who are playing with randoms who dont know eachother. even when in a team we all agree on choosing the server that suits us best. possibly one of the bad changes u guys made other than the 300 gearscore "normals" aka highroller with bad loot

[barren grove]

👍 agree with everything aside from invis. also SSF should just be like what it is right now but make the market open when weaponsmith crafts get good.

[cunning saddle]

When the game gives so much emphasis on sound but then give rogue and invisibility pots to players makes certain situation feel really bad. Sitting in a corner landmining is fine because at the end of the day, its your fault that you died by not clearing the corner, but dying because the other guy is completely invisible and there is nothing you can do but expect it is tiring and also doesn't always work, he can invis pot randomly, everywhere. Rogue can even run creepe to have 0 counter play.

[barren grove]

okay then. what would u give rogues instead because rogues cannot exist without invis

[cunning saddle]

I am not sure, but for the record, this wipe shows that rogues don't need invis. Most run double jump.

[worn canopy]

what class do you play?

[cunning saddle]

Rogue Slayer Fighter and Barb

[mystic silo]

might be a bad take from me but i think in the pve mode bosses should have the doors lock to anyone outside so people cant grief you in troll or steal other bosses from you

[jade kiln]

Add bronze bars ,made out of copper ingot+iron ingot(or add another ore called Tin ,that equals iron)
Use bronze bars to create bronze plate armor ,which give you projectile damage reduction and is of blue rarity.
If projectile dmg reduction isn't suitable ,then max hp % ,like 1-1.5%

@keen onyx

[lilac garden]

protection from buffs and potions should be stronger vs projectiles

[limpid tapir]

Please remove AI from Arena mode! Why would you think anyone wants that????

[jolly leaf]

When you remove them every game become "A barbarian, a Figther and a Druid rush you without anything to slow or stop them". Mob add randomness they tried to remove them in the past and every round become similar and dull. Imo

[limpid tapir]

@jolly leaf I hear what you are saying, but I do not buy it. There are other ways to balance. I still get ganked by rogues while I am dealing with AI. Very frustrating. Many other ways to fix unbalanced matchups.

[granite knot]

or just remove subbosses

[thorn mango]

Hello fellow Dark and darker chads I've been playing this game since the first beta playtest and I've quite enjoyed myself its an amazing game I've had good and bad moments and met a lot of cool people I'm sad to say I quit this game I quit not only bc of the meta comps but bc of the cheaters and bug abusers I wish everyone fair well and a good adventure and safe travels in those deep dark dungeon's Good bye Dark and darker I will miss you I hope everyone has a good night.

[young silo]

Buff warlock

[jolly leaf]

How then? What's your suggestions

[stone fable]

yeah same here, i stopped playing the game for like a year and just started this wipe again. couple of weeks in, 2 patches and still doing the same mistakes makes me leaving again... its sad like seeing a talented person wasting it in a stupid way.... concept is pretty cool but the decisions are just poor. "Savage Roar"

[crystal locust]

buff longsword

[broken rapids]

Remove that freakin slow from barbar shout, its insane.. AoE, 0 skill needed to land, over wall etc etc..
Better make promised Bola swing or something.

[icy knot]

Give Eldritch Shield scaling

[heady lynx]

Camping mastery

The current benefits, but you also regain 1 additional hit point every second while resting

Thoughts?

[icy knot]

not good enough

[heady lynx]

Eeeeee, i dunno
Running tranquility when i was playing bard some time ago made resting kinda viable to regain hp

[icy knot]

HP Overhealing for Camping mastery and every single ranger will take it for dungeon trios

maybe not,
this perk needs to go 🗑️

this was already suggested.

#game-discussion message
#game-discussion message

We came up with flat overheal. Now, all we can do is wait and hope it gets implemented — or at least tested."

[icy knot]

For future reference, if you are planning to make a unique mob, make it so that the items the mob drops are also used by the mob.

Warbone: Bloodsap Blade ???
Grottox: Thorn Shield ???
Grimsley: Spellplunder Rod 🤷

[pale dust]

If the devs went the Fortnite / Minecraft route and gave independent developers an SDK or something to build maps, game modes, bosses etc. I can imagine people would blow this game up. The barebones have so much potential.

[shrewd spoke]

How do you give pants to the spider o3o?

[icy knot]

no idea, bad game design

[shrewd spoke]

On the subject of unique mob items, would be cool to have different appearance for those!

[icy knot]

SDF didn't like SSF so it will never come back. How do you guys feel about that?

[red lily]

Honestly I kinda want more sudden movement based skills like tumble, I find it really fun and it'd be cool if we could get something like a dodge skill or a leap skill. It'd be hard to impliment but I feel like it'd be cool. Maybe a leap for barb where they crash into the ground dealing maybe like 20 damage and knock anyone around them back. Maybe a sidestep skill like tumble but you just move to the side

Would be hard to impliment and balance but I think it'd be cool

[rustic glade]

Druids need nerf again

[livid cloud]

General gameplay:

THIS IS LONG OVERDUE AND NEEDS AN IMMIDIATE ADJUSTEMENT / CHANGE:

DOORS: I start getting low health : I run to a door and close it on you, you start getting low health, you run to a door and close it on me. It is way too easy to get away from fights even when the opponent outplays you, just run to a door. Simple fix to this mechanic that has been ruining dark and darker for years now: Make closing doors SIGNIFICANTLY longer . Equal or slightly longer even than opening the door.

RED PORTALS: This has been stated for months now. Why do we have instant red exits ? It is way too easy to disengage fights by taking a red portal. Add a lever or something that will make the red open for 10 seconds then close again.

Arena Suggestions :

Make two different queues, solo queue and team queue both with two different arena ratings. Do not allow two of the same class on the same team in the solo queue version.

Allow one artefact per team in the team queue version of arena. This would allow strategic uses of the different artefacts and doesn't render them completely useless in arena mode.

Map design: either make the maps 2x1 or 2x2 or design maps SPECIFICALLY for arena. Certain modules used in arena benefit range too much because they are just a module taken from the map. If you don't have time to design new maps for arena, make the existing modules bigger, maybe 2x1 or 2x2 allowing more play diversity for all the classes.

[meager jasper]

Thank god

The only way SSF could ever exist is in its own queue, with its own, much higher, drop rates.

[frozen scaffold]

I think end of long quest lines need to have random artifact as quest reward. Doesn’t have to be every merchant. Maybe just like 3 different ones. By the time the last quests come out it’s well into the new wipe. Gives people who don’t get artifacts a chance to get/use one. Maybe it helps motivate them to go after them more in the future.

[livid cloud]

Was actually the most fun I had in DnD since the first playtest but yeah ok "thank god"

[meager jasper]

It sucked.

[proper shadow]

Dear developers, can we please stop buffing barbarians? Or at least if you must buff barbarians please don’t buff the things that people already use a lot of.

Second, can we please stop buffing a class in mass variety? What I mean is if you must buff a class please don’t buff a lot of things at once. You have to know from previous patches that this patch has lead to “barb and Barb-er” as the community refers to it. I strongly believe this is due to the mass buffs barbarian has received.

Third, can we please stop going back and forth with certain changes. For example, the bardiche, you realized how incredibly strong that weapon is with axe specialization and decided to make it not an axe, now barbarians are stronger then ever and they have an AOE slow that last 9 seconds, AND more range and damage. (I’m getting slightly off topic but the barbarian buffs are just baffling) my point being constantly going back and forth on certain decisions just doesn’t look good from a players standpoint. It makes it hard to trust the developers and can easily lead to a distasteful image.

Fourth, can we please stop buffing the classes that we have changed ever or ever other patch. Can we please focus on some other classes that are still lacking in certain department. For example the bard…I can’t remember the last time bard got any kind of substantial buff. He’s certainly been nerfed little by little here and there but the bard has no actually useful or even just USED skills besides ten spell. Maybe we focus on getting a more even number of perks and skills for all the characters?(If you just need ideas for other classes that are skills just message me directly. I have been thinking about this game for years and years and I’m very creative.)

[full patrol]

Trying to 'force' interactions so you can have more victems is an extremly poor model for a pvp game. Closing doors, really??? lol Come on, I'm fighting you, I'm low health, the strategic thing is to get away, put some distance, close a door. Have that take longer so you can catch your pray and finish your kill is toxic.

[valid oak]

thisss 100%

[ashen canyon]

Yes and no, I agree with both sides, there should be something you can do to create the distance I agree, however you shouldn’t be able to do it repeatedly, unless your a mage or a barb, you can’t destroy a door, and that is kinda what I feel needs to be changed, all classes should have some kind of way to disable a door, either by locking it or breaking it.

[full patrol]

Maybe just have fewer doors? If someones dungeon crawling and not trying to pvp, they should have a way to distance themselves from the sweat hogs who never stop chasing you through a dungeon. lol I mean, dam, applaud their committment, but holy shit, give it a rest guys.

[ashen canyon]

If someone is just dungeon crawling not trying to PvP, they added a mode for that

They have a way to remove PvP ENTIRELY.

[ashen canyon]

And also to be fair, the game kinda forces you not to stop chasing because the second you do the come back at you while your looting to try and kill you unfortunately

[full patrol]

Yes, at a fraction of the loot and the weakest AI. I want a HR PvE server, that would rock. But we're straying off topic. I think maybe fewer doors, not a lot, just a few fewer doors might be a nice starting place.

[ashen canyon]

I mean this is fair, but if there aren’t people coming to try and kill you it’s not really HR, and that’s kinda the point.

Fewer doors, maybe more ways to disable said doors or break them, If I’m swinging a halberd at a door , it’s not going to just bounce off, after a bit it will break. Things like that would help as well. I think fewer doors would be nice, however players that play that hit and run style would just move to where the doors were and play around them ultimately not solving the issue.

[abstract bone]

remove true damage from the game.

[livid cloud]

Are you serious ? Surely you must be trolling. There are better ways then abusing doors mechanics to disengage

[livid cloud]

When 95% of the fight is chasing after someone closing doors on you that is not good design my guy

[full patrol]

Like I said, toxic. You must be one of those players who doesn't even loot, they just chase down the next victim. If that's how you choose to play the game, great. Not everyone enjoys have you chase them through a dungeon though. lol HR PVP, HR PVE....that way the people who enjoy chasing others around the dungeon in hopes of getting a kill can enjoy the game with like minded people, and those who don't appreciate the constant sweat hogs chasing them down can enjoy the game with their like minded people. Pretty simple. And before you chime in with the old...."There aren't enough people to split them up like that." Try this...."There aren't enough pvp people to support their style of play." Well, that sounds like a pvp problem to me, sounds almost like the WNBA.

[chrome jungle]

why are u forcing ur pve mentality in pvp dude, just sit in ur pve

[ashen canyon]

The only way I get behind something like this is if pve lot has to stay in pve. Can’t be brought over to PvP, can’t be marketplace listed or tradeable.

[livid cloud]

I'm not even half the sweat you're picturing here but lets be honest I want engaging battles not door closing contests...

[full patrol]

It litteraly doesn't matter. Gray Zone Warfare has both, same loot, same gear, you can play whichever you want, it's way cool. Where the loot comes from...it does not matter. People are trolling that adventure mode right now looking for loot to bring into HR, what is your complaint about that?

I would think, that the sweat hogs would love it when crappy players bring in their good loot for you?? Or do you prefer that cheesy loot table in Adventure mode. lol I much prefer HR and I'm not afraid of pvp, I'm just too old to be a sweat hog and chase people through a dungeon.

[full patrol]

Then why do you chase them down? You seem aweful worried that someone might escape your grasp!!! lol

[full patrol]

Enjoy your arena kid...all the pvp you want, all in one nice little spot.

[ashen canyon]

Compare the player count of gray zone warfare and then come back, I’m not sure if gray zone warfare has a community driven marketplace or not, but dark and darker does. Giving players the same loot that’s locked behind highroller with risk of PvP to those in pve highroller with no risk of getting killed by players is insane. That’s why they reduced ore drops to one in pve instead of the same as PvP, because people went in and farmed it so they could sell it on marketplace risk free.

[full patrol]

And? Makes ore cheaper right? No GZW doesn't have a player market, maybe that's the right idea? There's no risk now farming ore in Adventure mode and guess where it gets sold?? Guy loots a purple in Adventure mode, brings it into HR, I kill him, take his loot. Or...he loots a few legendries in PvE mode, brings them into HR, I kill him, and take his loot. Option 2 seems like a better deal to me.

[icy knot]

Don't increase drop rate in PVE mode, or other modes will be dead

[icy knot]

Barbarian isn't the only one struggling in the MS meta; Blood Pact Demon is too.

[cunning saddle]

@full patrol wtf dude

[valid oak]

@keen onyx porco dio fixa i barbari mannagggia alla madonna

[barren grove]

they should make it so u can extract with enemy hearts and use them for crafts and artifact "gemming". like 300 HR kills = artifact gem. or maybe instead its like (use a soul heart to get an ultra low chance at crafting an artifact gem) . the merchant should be that luckpotion seller

hearts cant be sold on flea and must be earned. they cant be brought in raid

and u have a timer where if it passes 5 minutes out of the body it fades away

[valid oak]

@keen onyx fix barb porco di dio

[turbid hazel]

add total damage done and taken at the end of the matches in regular dungeons

[icy knot]

So that typical friend who always talks shit about how much he did in a fight finally got humbled

good idea ⬆️

[turbid hazel]

fr istg they be doing 50 damage in a fight talkin about carrying it

[icy knot]

💵 Make a cosmetic lobby with Otto sleeping in the background 💵

[hollow estuary]

static exits should take time to extract so you cant instantly dip once you start losing

[odd pebble]

barb is broken nerf him

[compact plume]

give me some hands

[zealous pawn]

Give barb more dmg. A white bardiche only hits a sorcerer for 90% of their hp. Should be a 1 shot on every class including bear druid

[surreal prism]

2 out of 10 rage bait

[zealous pawn]

Just facts. Why leave 10% hp. Pressing your attack button twice is too much

[broken rapids]

Dungeon extraxt/next level doors should have mechanism which take some time(like 10 seconds or so.) to temporary activate.

AND! Regular / magic interaction % wont decrease amount of time.

[white spade]

we have 320 concurrent queues. Remove 1 normal make all normal up to blue gear. Make only 1 high roller with no gear cap. bring back map rotations this would make 320 queues become 72. 3 minutes each map with 2 queues (fixed) and more if the queues are filled to the max, u have 1:30min to enter first queue, insta start would mean opening the lobby, if u take 30secs to start it would take to the on-going dungeon that just started. Also PvE shouldnt give u back itens that are not self found. PvE itens should be non-tradable.

[broken rapids]

+HR should have rotation (like 30mins or so - like in Apex Legends)

[formal wadi]

Add some sort of penalty for switching between ranged and melee weapons. The reason ranged meta exists is that you can used ranged options to damage before going into melee without any consequences, and it will always exist no matter how much you tweak ranged weapons if you can just switch to melee as quickly as you do now

[maiden stump]

what about big arena skirmishes free for all or guild arenas more then 3x3, like 5x5 or even more? thoughts?

[full patrol]

We tried that rotation trick, it didn't pan out very well.

[full patrol]

Sounds good. Nothing like minions killing you because you can't open a door quick enough, because it must take time so you can't get away and I can kill you. Yep, sounds like a pretty bad model for a GAME.

[broken rapids]

I need translator for this. Wtf

[meager jasper]

We have disagreed on other topics before, but I'm 100% with you on this, just in case anyone from the dev team gets the idea that discourse is somehow against you. The ability to run, and not engage, and just survive, is so fundamental to this game's design that if it was ever removed I suspect a vast majority of players would leave. I certainly would. It's what allows tactical decisions to be made. It's the core thing that makes pvp have tension and uncertainty to it and allows it to be engaging in the first place.

In this game you're not just supposed to be gambling your gear when you press to enter HR, you're supposed to be gambling your gear when you choose to approach other players' sound ques etc.

My main concern is unequal ability to escape and engage with this game right now though. I think druid has become quite toxic in its design, even as someone who really likes the class.

[past idol]

when quiver ?

[shy tide]

get rid of duos and delete some of the gear brackets too many queues lobbies too dead it will benefit the game in the long run

[visual igloo]

How ngl solo is full

[shy tide]

depends on the server and time your playing and i never go against new players always the same names

[lilac garden]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA_tEsgrJek

[paper apex]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/638521/take-the-boss-summoning-mechanic-out-of-hr-epic-gear-lobby

Take the boss summoning mechanic out of the HR epic gear bracket, since you’re not able to get artifacts from it anyway. It would provide another space for people to still fight over decent loot, as well as give people a chance to fight/learn HR boss mechanics.

[granite knot]

SDF says no unfortunately

[coral viper]

Please stop tanking the economy with religion gold sinks. How does this benefit engagement? I had a great time as a new player in a heavily inflated economy because I could scrape by with basic gear in norms lobbies funded by very carefully goblin gambling (as an example) even though my K/D was like 1:10. Brutal economy is surely alienating for brand new players who can't afford bandages as well as experienced players getting their artifacts etc rug-pulled.

Gold sinks are a tool to control the money supply. I'm sure almost any player or employee could advise on economic impact like this but I volunteer if not. Just a massive unforced error, and to do the exact same thing this wipe? I just don't get it. Its sad and it feels like you're not playing your own game anymore (like most of the players in the last few years). As repoze said in a recent video, I love this game. There is so much done so uniquely well, but it feels like too much is happening in a bubble. Is the sdf personality cult holding it back? I have no idea but we need to turn over a new leaf and get back in touch with the base, and not just through random unofficial twitch chat AMAs. Please, guys. I can't hold the line forever.

[broken rapids]

I feel like religion could be ok, if its since day 1 wipe.

In other hand i agree with ruined Economy

[coral viper]

Sure, why not? As in real life, the economy contracts in uncertainty. And the wildly erratic behavior on the part of the designers lately is exactly that. I don't mind adding gold sinks as long as it's communicated ahead of time. This game is largely about growing wealth and planning ahead. Let's facilitate that.

...still, 200k is a lot. How much gold does the average player generate? Keep in mind that all gold enters the economy though merchant sales and quest rewards. 200k on pile treasure, per person? Plus med costs? Come on...

[broken rapids]

I still stand for SSF Equipment and market only for consumables and craftables

Anyway about religion, should have separated merchants for each religion.
Merchant would give daily killing quests and reward would be coins or battlepass like reward meter.

[lilac garden]

What if you remove normals and 0-224, but instead make a solo self found (SSF) TRIOS only queue without losing items on death except for your inventory and you can get up to UNIQUE items, while limiting the item rarity players can bring up to purple. Keep pve and 225+ the way the are now.

[craggy dragon]

bring back server selection. Used to instant play on another server, now im stuck waiting 15min+ on normal trio que because my nearest servers are empty all day.

[jolly leaf]

Add more point of interest in the dungeon : https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/554235/dark-and-darkers-content-problem

For me there is easy one.
The Expressman : Put him in a random room in the dungeon and your need to go there to give him stuff to extract.
Fishing : https://youtu.be/eusNKWKROfg nothing to add.
A forge : It does the same thing that the Goldsmith but you can get the max roll of a stat and it cost only the gem (That mean you need to bring your gear and gem in the dungeon and take the risk to lose it)
A gem Hoard: Like a gold Hoard but with a higher gem drop rate, put them only behind the Key room so people actually use them

[icy knot]

This religion skin thing is here to make all gear affordable for for new players and for players that don't have time to grind money in the game.

Give more reasons why it should not happen mid season so it might change.

[solid turtle]

give druid a 5 second cooldown between transformations. Make them build cooldown reduction if they want to spam it. Remove double dash from panther. Remove the MS slow from savage roar. Give spellcasters their magic power back. Make 225+ HR require at least full blues or purples to enter. Buff loot so HR is more enticing. Boom game fixed. @keen onyx

Release religion at the start of the season and make player XP gain as the source to level up the religion.

[icy knot]

• I wonder if Will could be buffed instead of giving spellcasters their magic power back.
  Every caster main says Will is dead stat because:
  1 Will = 1 Magical Power

• Is game balanced around trios? Many people say: yes since patch 69.
  Wasn't game better when it was balanced for solos? You saw so many classes in HR solos before, not just 3 as it is now, and people were not complaining about classes being weak in trios or were they? class being playable in trios makes it insanely strong for solos?

[timid otter]

PLEASE SOMEONE AT IRONMACE SEE THIS!!!!

[summer ember]

Please remove continuous dungeon

[icy knot]

I think most people would agree that unique mobs should have a 100% chance to drop a named item, given how rarely they appear.

[icy knot]

Religion

• Add more religions.
• Half of the screen is dedicated to showing how much money people donated to each religion. Who cares about that? It's not important for the player and takes up too much screen space.
• There's no description or lore for any of the religions — where is it?
• There should be an option to leave one religion and join another. This should come with consequences, like temporary exile(can't join another religion for a week).
• All the religion icons look the same — that goldish-yellow color. It makes them feel indistinct and less meaningful. Look at BG3 religions: 20 religions with simple icons and names, you know it's gonna impact the gameplay so you read about each one.

[icy knot]

Make religion impact dungeon crawling gameplay more instead of just giving plane stats:

• Increases the amount of Health the player receives from the Health Shrine or other type of healing
• Reveal Health Shrine when player has low HP(FOW addition)
• Reveal closest resurrection shrine upon the death of an ally(FOW addition)
• Reveal one escape point at the very end of the match(FOW addition)
• Reveal Boss room at the end of the match(FOW addition)
• Give player a signal that there is a unique mob on the map.

You can do so much with religion system.
Maybe religion shouldn't be as impactful as I described; maybe for the sake of balance, there should be a lower chance of those effects occurring like 25%, some 10%?

[spark sonnet]

sooo when are we nerfing frost lighting, is this some kind of joke, its hit box is easy AF and stuns you for 2 years

[icy knot]

About queues
What can we do to reduce possiblity of empty lobbies?

• Close PVE mode when Arena is Open? As players that want to play arena are mostly from PVE mode, scared of losing their gear.
• Close HR when Arena is Open? Or rather Make HR open only at weekends just like Arena? Maybe there should be only one HR mode that changes during a week: 'Epic gear limit' for the entire week, and 'Artifact gear limit' for the weekends.
• Same thing can be done with Normal mode 'Uncommon gear limit' for entire week and 'Rare or Epic gear limit' for the weekends.

@keen onyx @dawn grotto @full tulip

[icy knot]

Weaker Counterattack as skill expression for all classes
Give Weaker Counterattack mechanic to all block-capable entities, except those with the parry mechanic.

[limber ferry]

@keen onyx @dawn grotto @full tulip I advise you to watch this guys, otherwise we are heading in the wrong direction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA_tEsgrJek

[odd harness]

Barely any Arena Player is from PvE Mode... They are all normal HR Players that are just scared to loose their BiS

[icy knot]

Well, that was just my assumption, same as yours. Only the devs have the data.

Actually Empty lobby is a good thing in PVE mode so Closing PVE would be a bad idea.

[sand breach]

Remove +1all attributes and +movespeed bonuses on gear, this game has become movespeed > skill meta

Why should i build anything else and tell me if u got something else thats better

[ripe turtle]

You know what would be insane? To allow players to teleport to random dungeons. For example, from ruins to ice caverns, from ice caverns to inferno, from goblin caves to inferno etc. Could be like this black gateway that spawns around the map.

[smoky brook]

This is NOTTT the MCU 💀 💀 💀 😭 😭

[jade isle]

Potions of (Magic) Protection should give immunity to certain debuffs on higher rarities. For example green Potions of Protection should give immunity to silence for the duration of the buff. Or Potions of Magic Protection could give immunity to slows. Since you actively have to decide to drink it it would incentivize more cautious gameplay and give casters the possibilities to counter something like a panther

[icy knot]

silence should not be in the game or needs to be nerfed so it doesn't deactivate abilities

[icy knot]

Wizard or Sorc needs this kind of spell you’re talking about that negates 1 CC/Effect.
#suggestion-discussion message

[ripe turtle]

It could be, with its own flavor.

[jade isle]

Yeah atleast something like that. Silence is great but there has to be more to it, than just hitting someone. Give Rogue a Knife that he throws at someone, make Panther roar or something. Make the Classes take some Risk to disable whole Classes completely

[chrome jungle]

Current game problems by priority:
0. Delete this channel, u dont listen anyway

1. Keep ur promises, add quivers already, i dont quite understand why is it so hard, just add them as an additional bag, u even had ui for it. Maybe add something like affinity system, so that only arrows goes there, that system also would help with bags (like a treasure only bag, potion only bag). And also could be used for stash sorting. Sure u have to set affinity for each piece of item, but the game currently doesnt have that much loot, where is the problem?
2. Content - Game currently doesnt return any players with wipes, adding new classes, new maps would kinda help, but not really. Game should something more than that, maybe add points of interest on map, like defending from waves of monsters (with their own map module), Also making new game modes could help, like TvT, Ctf maybe? dungeon crawler mode with basic character without class? with unlockable random perks while u move throgh floors, that can randomly put u in the same module as other players for pvp?
3. Balance - True perfect balance is just a pipe dream, just dont make it stale, or toxic, start with nerf to barb and druid, make druid not reset as easily (REMOVE RAT DOOR JUMP FFS), remove all healing from shapeshift druid, buff healing from chicken
   3.1. Make doors open faster than closing, who cares about timmies, let them die, viewers experience first, timmies last
   3.2. Move speed meta - Move speed from gear has to go, its not fun
   3.2.1 Solution 1: Add more catchup solutions for slower classes
   3.2.2 Solution 2: Static speed for every character, affected only by abilities. It requires balance changes for abilities and gear, like plate needs to be nerfed around being less AR in that case, or maybe keep it and add sources of magical damage to other classes (new base items), whatever u feel like
   3.2.3 Solution 3: increase ms pentalty from damage, requires thorough testing

3.3 Universally good affixes are dumb. +1 all attributes is too good for any class. Rerollable class specific affixes would be much more interesting
3.4 Ability to just enter red, or blue instantly is toxic, make it not instant, replace with a zone u have to stay in
4. Religion - just useless half baked gold sink right now, just remove it from menu, add an npc that just takes gold for cosmetics. Can later be used as ssf, market, pve, pvp allegiances
5. Add training range, should atleast contain target dummies, later spawn(or access a room module) with mobs and bosses for practice
6. Skull keys, golden keys - are not being used as "keys", but as currency, chests and coin bags are clearly not working.
6.1 Solution 1: Make coin chests and bags more easily accessible through quests and vendors, and make them sellable for the same amount, also storage amount in them has to be increased
6.2 Solution 2: Add something to more easily store gold, like a stackable gold bars (rename old gold bars to whatever), make them tradable and stackable
7. Add more interesting gold sinks
7.1. Arena wager
7.2. Gear crafting, for example reroll random affix for gold, reroll numeric values of all affixes for gold, reroll implicit numeric values of an item for gold, reroll rarity of an item for gold
8. Empty lobbies - doesnt affect that much players, and can be solved with higher playerbase
8.1 Remove solos and duos, game clearly is not being balanced around them (and im not saying its balanced right now), its a bad experience. Maybe readd them later with scalable perks depending on party size
9. Ui is super unintuitive

[icy knot]

I think shapeshifts are so powerful that Druid could have only 3 or 4 shapeshifts per Shapeshift Memory.
With this change, penalty suffer -50% Magical Power Bonus of Shapeshift Mastery could be removed.

• With double Shapeshift Memory, Druid would finally have to use his head, as he wouldn’t be able to heal back up as quickly as with spells.
• With one Shapeshift Memory and Spells, he would be forced to commit to one shapeshift playstyle, losing some mobility but still benefiting from quick resets.

What do you think about that @meager jasper @keen onyx

[steep hawk]

i have one suggestion. Delete this channel you don't listen anyways
@keen onyx

[meager jasper]

I think it's deeply foolish. It's the same design they're currently enamoured with: Ignoring the problem and trying to nerf things around the problem in order to appease people crying out for balance rather than just admitting you're wrong.

The problem is movement options, it isn't how many times druid can shapeshift. It isn't the ability to skirmish and reset, which is a universal trait of combat.

I increasingly think panther should not have a dash at all. Remove the dash, make it a silence only instead, and they still have a way of sealing the deal with mages without being oppressive to them. End of ability to fly. Done.

While we're at it, if people agree that rat jumping is annoying as well, return rat to its original use as a stealth form. Let druids be an ambush class and remove those movement abilities from most areas. Remove the squeak. Make it so either door holes are either gone or highly reduced. I don't strictly hate the rat-jumping myself, but perhaps the issue is simply that it's too reliable in too many modules?

As an aside as well, nerfing around the problem like that has one major flaw: The more you do it, the more you weaken the class fundamentally rather than addressing what makes them too powerful. They've already started to do this by pointlessly attacking the core damage numbers to the point where bears cannot compete with the barb and barber meta players, making the form completely useless because that's supposed to be the thing it's there to address. There will be a break point where panther just isn't useful if they keep doing this, in other words.

[icy knot]

The problem is movement options, it isn't how many times druid can shapeshift.
my suggestion doesn't talk about how many times druid can shapeshift does it?
If they would be given only 3 shapeshifts, they'd have to choose carefully. I bet they would have hard time picking either chicken or rat, since the most common setup would be human, chicken, and panther. That means they wouldn’t have the option to escape as a rat, which limits their movement choices.

It isn't the ability to skirmish and reset, which is a universal trait of combat.
Yea you are right I just see many people complaining how fast can druid reset

I guess. It was just a dumb take.

[icy knot]

true

Buff Dev Communication

[meager jasper]

It's not just the transparency side of communication that's the problem here too, by the way. There's no redeeming their decisions, they're actively wrong with a number of design choices in ways that are observably unpopular. This would not be resolved by them just saying "We want it to be this way because x"

The problem here is that they don't talk to the player base and actually absorb feedback. You'll never see sdf here defending his decisions in the trenches by arguing for them logically. That contributes to the bubble of false design they've put themselves in.

And it's not the scale of the game that prevents that, to be clear. PoE's (previous) leadership used to be exactly that way, and they were respected for it.

I'm reminded of the Lords of the Fallen dev, who's been putting out polls for a long while, and recently used them to overhaul his game for the better. If you don't want to discuss sdf, why don't you post polls to gauge how people feel about certain changes? I feel like that would immediately burst your bubble and give you real actionable data that isn't based on abstract win/loss rates in certain gamemodes.

[granite plinth]

1- @keen onyx merge PVE and PVP normal lobbies together and add a function to that game mode that gives you a "PVE mode state" for 10 seconds if you hit or get hit by a PVE enemy and keeps resetting with every hit. in this state you cannot be harmed by other players. if a player outside this state gets attacked by another player he is forced into a "PVP mode state" that lasts for 10 seconds and keeps resetting with every hit while the player who initiated the attack enters an "advanced PVP mode state" for 1 minute and that state resets with every hit. needless to say the PVP state takes precedence and a player who is in that state cannot enter a PVE state untill tha timers ends.

2- remove the ability to loot players equipment from the normal lobbies. only inventory is lootable.

3- add a function to the goblin service that doubles the re-purchase amount of your equipment each time you use him. so the first time you use his service you have to pay 1X and the second time 2X...etc. this resets everyday (every 24 hrs).

[icy knot]

1. can't happen. it's going to turn into another PvE mode where the entire lobby just sits in the boss room, and no one wants to fight. Even if one team wants to fight, the other will just avoid it and steal all the loot.

Just add friendly fire option in PVE mode so 2 parties can fight if they both agree.

[granite plinth]

the timer is just 10 seconds. please take a moment to read what i said carefully.

[icy knot]

sorry for not reading. Yea interesting/good idea

But still its not as safe as PVE mode, the only thing that can save a player in Such mode are mobs. If you are not fighting a mob you are forced to fight, for a new player that is an L.

The party attacking would even help to kill mobs faster, if they have mele classes they can get extreamy close before timer ends.
If you implement the mechanic where if both parties start to attack each other to be in "PVP mode state" we are back in Normal PVP mode.

[granite plinth]

the "PVE mode state" and "PVP mode state" functions, combined with the inability to loot other players equipment will semi- guarantee a safe PVE experience. while the increasing demands of the goblin merchant to repurchase your equipment incentivizes you to purchase from the market.

the objective is not to provide a completely safe experience nor to make the experience completely dangerous

its an inbetween experience. what makes most players play the PVE mode is not the safety from PVP per se. its the safety from others stealing their grind. stealing your grind during that instance is fine since its a 15 min setback. but to steal your hard earned set that you spend hours upon hours to grind for, that is what drives players into the PVE mode.

[chrome jungle]

pve was a mistake, arguably pvp and stakes were the cores of dnd, now fitting pve experience in there seems out of place tbh

[spring copper]

losing time is also as bad as loosing gear/gold, I think pve is as good as it is now

[spring copper]

pvp is the core experience that was provided. but the addition of pve doesn't hurt in any way the pvp experience

[icy knot]

I'm pretty sure players play PVE to escape PVP
its the safety from others stealing their grind. I guess true

Even if you make it so that you cannot loot someone gear, there will still be the problem of dying to other players, new players want to get to a dugneon loot some chests in peace, try to do boss in peace. They don't want some sweats constantly killing them even if they keep their gear.

Even if you get this system to work, I think there would be so many scenarios where PVE players just can't be protected at 100%.

I think just giving friendly fire switch to every player in PVE mode would be way better option to have some tournaments/interactions there. Without loosing gear of course.

[spring copper]

yeah, would love that, recently I find myself very careless how I swing

[granite plinth]

most those players who PVP are incentivized to do so because of the potential rewards they find on their enemies. eliminating the ability to loot equipment's from players will significantly decrease PVP interactions in normal lobbies. the risk to pvp is not worth the couple of bangles they will find in the enemy inventory.

[spring copper]

been killed plenty of times by full gear while I was in commons and running, being hunted as a sport is not fun

[granite plinth]

no one knows you are in commons while ingame.

[icy knot]

no they will still kill you for the fun of it
and so you can not steal their dungeon loot
and for safety as noobs can start the fight also.

[granite plinth]

these players exist yes but they are a tiny minority.

[spring copper]

they knew, because this was from a time when you had fixed gear when you spawned, you could easily see who was in trash and who was not

[icy knot]

ym. Why would I not attack you If you are entering a pile room from a boss that I killed? There is a risk you would attack me, kill me and you have all the loot for yourself. We are back in PVP mode

What are we even discussing XD

The system you described only protects players when fighting PVE that's it and can be abused by others

[ripe turtle]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/639460/new-combo-attack-perk-idea < Please leave a vote if you like the idea!

[chrome jungle]

too insane with rondel

[icy knot]

Weaker Counterattack as skill expression for all classes
Give Counterattack mechanic to all block-capable entities(shields, weapons), except those with the parry mechanic. Or how about bigger stagger debuff when hitting a shield?

https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkx03I5afvYy57CdSSri3R5OnVD1aySIZAw
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/639288/weaker-counterattack-for-all-classes

[waxen oasis]

change report system and dont count cross-teaming report failed at failed one

when i was a timmies I dont know report cross-team across in game system for sure wont work so it add a lot of failed case
which make some player has lower passed rate

[narrow tree]

I recommend adding a timer indicator above the goblin merchant so that when new players die they know how long they have to wait before they can buy their gear back from the goblin merchant. I have helped so many new players who dont even know about being able to buy their stuff after death in adventure mode

[coral heron]

please fix bad spawning, i keep spawning into the second and third HR levels and am alredy under attack before I'm even fully in, needs a fix

[spring copper]

I would suggest 2 solutions to be used together for the pvp queues and empty matches problem

• rotating maps with all the queues on the same map
• matches start at set times

The map should rotate every 1 min and when it rotates all people who are set ready for that map are sorted in matches.

This cuts the amount of queues to a 1/3 for pvp, because only a 1/3 of queues will be available at any given time. People who only want to farm one specific map, their map will be available in the worse case scenario every 3 min.

For average Joe this will mean, in the worst case, a few minutes of wait, but it will dramatically cut the amount of queues and increase the player pool available on each queue.

[bold isle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1371764734721921067/1372632255381504060/2025-05-15_222752.jpg?ex=68277ae7&is=68262967&hm=6139fa78618dbd85fcd23a52f68fd567fe352074890b02d0c65efbc22b423a50&
@keen onyx WYSIWYG

[grizzled hull]

pve aint that bad lil bros

they should include nightmare mobs in it though just more rare, normal - nightmare spawns with every 1 in like 5 being nightmare or smth

[meager jasper]

There's no fix for empty queues that doesn't outrage the playerbase. The reality is that kind of change won't save this game. Only making the game better will. And it is pretty bad right now. This is barb and barber, and these devs refuse to actually add inventory systems and quivers. The most basic things that were promised since PT4.

[grizzled hull]

so true

[meager jasper]

Personally I do think they should remove arena and pve.

There's an argument to say that they should not remove something like core brackets or singles for example because these are core lobbies with their own purposes and demographics. Arena and pve are not core, they're extranaeous. I know some people like them, because they're both bandaids on the lack of well-designed content in their own way, but their presence is bad for the game. They're an example of lack of focus which eats up dev time. I don't want them making mini-games, I want them making DaD itself better.

[grizzled hull]

pve is a way of training new players to participate in the pvp modes instead of just quitting, i think they can expand on pve a lot and make it fun for pvpers as well. think of games like elden ring and how they make pve crazy good. arena idk cant really defend that much

[meager jasper]

That's a flaw with pvp being fundamentally unfair in most modes of play.

No, not just unfair. Unfun.

pvp has several serious cheesy problems that have never been addressed and people stop playing when they happen too often.

If we need a space to tutorialize pve before getting into pvp, you should instead ask why pvp is so unfun nobody wants to do it, instead of it being fun enough to throw yourself into repeatedly, even when you're losing.

These games are supposed to be big highs and big lows. That is the draw. Softening that is a real problem in games like these. It devalues the gain. It makes the core gameplay loop a grind. But it can't be satisfying like you'd want unless the rewards are actually there, or it just becomes a constant struggle. And when I say rewards I don't just mean loot. I mean feeling successful and powerful and having a class that doesn't fold instantly when it comes across a certain other situation

[ashen canyon]

Agreed

[paper apex]

They just need to have less queues. Keep adventure mode, have one normal mode that’s up to blue gear, and one HR that’s epic gear and above.

[meager jasper]

Might be better, but only in the short-term. The game will continue to slowly decay until they have a big change in approach.

Ultimately do you really think people are going to come back to the game having burned them just because of that? No.

They'd want to know the problems that turned them off are gone, and there's new content to latch on to, to catch their interest. Both things which are never really addressed while the devs just play a back and forth numbers games with themselves rather than developing the game.

I really do hope we get a good competitor at some point. I increasingly just don't believe in IM. I know that's sad. But I'm just kinda done.

I hope one day they listen, but I just don't have any reason to believe they will.

[grizzled hull]

pvp isnt unfun dark and darker just has the sharpest learning curve iv ever seen in a game

its reasonable for people to need time

theres also an audience who doesnt like fighting people, a view most pvpers cant comprehend for some reason

i think pvers are also good for the economy, they’ll farm things that pvpers wont want to farm and that market will keep them in the game and keep price from getting excessive

i literally never play pve but i cant see pve as a negative other then more queues which take away from the pvp ones

but those players would likely not choose pvp in the first place so who cares, they add to the pvp economy if nothing else.

and support to the overall game and its future development

its easy to see pve as a negative when you only look at it from the surface

[meager jasper]

I disagree. The core gameplay is very good, that much I'd agree with.

But landmine rogues.
But the ranged meta.
Being leeched by a max move warlock you can't ever touch even as a moderately fast class.
Panther was already somewhat oppressive with its movement. Now it has two silences attached to dashes.
The problems with basic blocking mechanics. Desyncs and such.

Ask yourself how many times the game sours itself with these kinds of events that just totally ruin the experience in that moment. And those are not "you were bad so you died" moments. They just lack agency.

These things all come together to make the game worse. The more "moments" of perceived unfairness that emerge, the less people are willing to play the game. And those are only a small fraction of problems. I could go on, if you'd like.

This isn't a skill issue, this is a bad game issue. Bad game with potential, sure. But bad game. I know some people don't want to have to admit that because they, like me, like parts of it, but I think the player numbers are increasingly clear.

[grizzled hull]

yea sure theres some current balancing issues with pvp but that doesnt reflect as a negative onto pve

[meager jasper]

That's why I said pve was a bandaid. It's there to detract from the fact that pvp is actively in a bad state. The more effort goes into pve the less they actually fix this.

[grizzled hull]

i wouldnt say that, because pve can serve a purpose other then that

like i said, there IS an audience that just doesnt want to pvp its not only about whether the pvp is good or not. think of like larpers but not that extreme

[meager jasper]

The purpose is foolish. There's no other way to put it. It splits the playerbase and is a symptomatic issue not a root cause. You simply would not be saying this is pvp was approachable and fun.

[grizzled hull]

like i said before, if they are playing pve they likely wouldnt play PvP in the first place

what real pvper goes to pve and likes it and as a pvper do you really just wanna crush timmies all day? lol

[meager jasper]

There's a class of player that should not be catered to in pvpve games, but no I don't think you're right. I think the reality is people play pve mode because pvp is a totally insufferable experience most of the time.

[grizzled hull]

let them have their fun in pve instead of beating them off the game

[grizzled hull]

i would never hop off pvp personally unless its for quests

[meager jasper]

What about it? Does that mean anything I said here is actually wrong? #suggestion-discussion message

We are in the unique position that both of us are already heavily engaged in this game. We talk here, that's already massive.

Expand your mind a bit here: Don't think about what your experience is, instead think about how you think broadly people will experience the game.

Do you think the majority of people run into these issues and just don't want to pvp, or was it because they never wanted to pvp at all? I don't think people even buy into this game unless they want a pvpve personally.

And it's because they just don't want to lose the kits to be clear, they don't want to pvp. Particularly when those moments of loss are so sublimely unfair. Like stepping right onto an invisible man with a knife who can kill you faster than you cast one spell.

And encouraging those people to pve is not a good thing. It's just a bandage over a gaping wound that ultimately makes the game grindier and worse to play.

Forget SDFs vision - the idea of pve is oppositional to the game's core design. It's like instituting a cheat mod into the core release of Elden Ring or something. It's something that can be done, and something that will have an audience, but that doesn't mean it's good.

These changes have real psychological effects on the game's feeling of meaning and reward.

Okay.

[grizzled hull]

i think people will run into these issues and i dont think that is a reason to take away pve as pve was never meant to solve the issue of inbalance

[grizzled hull]

some people just have gear fear in general as well despite the landmine losses or whatever inbalance there is

say for example pvp is in a perfect state, there will still be a good audience for pve that can support the overall health of the game that might not play the game otherwise if it wasn't there

like I said before, and especially if SDF makes pve more focused towards this, PVErs fill a supply gap in the economy that pvpers will not take care of

and they will support the game financially, both huge benefits to the pvp side

dont get me wrong I think pve can be and should be expanded on massively for it to really contribute to the overall game but def not something to remove

theres also still incentive towards pvp for pvers because of the epic item limit on pve so some of that audience will gradually move over instead of being stomped on in immediate pvp and quit

thats an issue iv seen in highly competitive and high skill gap games before, there isn't enough room for new players to catch up with people way better then them and they quit, the game is ultimately left with it's competitive space which slowly leaves until the game is dead with a small community of pvpers

many highly competitive games have a ranking system to counteract that but dark and darker doesnt and i dont think it should

[icy knot]

1 point of interest...
#warlock message

[grizzled hull]

another way to think of it is like a food chain, if the predators are the only ones ever thriving then the prey will die off and consequently the predators will die too.

you need a way for your prey to thrive

[meager jasper]

This is a cope, to my eyes.

Once again, this is very straight forward. If it was fun it wouldn't matter, people would still play it.

[broken rapids]

I feel like there is problem with “teaming” bans etc..

I always try to communicate if im in mood.. many times i tried help other players, make game interaction something special.. which is so rare nowdays.

[ashen canyon]

Prey only place with no preadators, starves the predators…

[meager jasper]

It was a mistake to ever remove friendly interaction from the game, yes. It exasperated the already increasingly bad-mannered community.

The original design of the wyvern necessitating teamwork was such a good idea, they I wish they'd stuck to and refined in some way.

[ashen canyon]

Same, when I run in the dungeon I always try to communicate first, once you make an aggressive move, the peace is broken

[broken rapids]

Problem is if players team up vs others, specially ppl who are que at same time for this reason.

I love sometime gather with random player who is same class, use diplomacy to group and hunter Druids

[meager jasper]

The "will they fight us, or not?" vibe of the playtest was so much better than the aggressive nonsense that happens nowadays.

[broken rapids]

I wish Voice is all time open.

[grizzled hull]

and if they dont have a place most wont be here at all. its like a compromise except it isnt because you dont really lose anything as a pvper only gain

[grizzled hull]

people who dont know how to pvp, dont want to learn, dont want to fight, will never do it no matter how fun it is. simple as that.

[meager jasper]

Complete cope, this is a pvpve game. People open the game willing to play a pvpve game.

[grizzled hull]

in most pvp competitive games iv played iv always had a pve farmer in the group or someone who stays away from pvp and doesnt like it

theres quite obviously a playerbase for it, not being able to understand that is just weird

[meager jasper]

This is a backwards justification for people's purely emotional responses.

[meager jasper]

There's a playerbase for it because the alternative is unpleasant. I've already said that. PvP, once again, is actively not good. And it's gotten worse.

[grizzled hull]

pleasant or not it wouldnt change them

[meager jasper]

Besides, you shouldn't be compromising dev time for people who aren't your audience

[grizzled hull]

in their minds the idea of pvp isnt pleasant in the first place, maybe thats what you dont understand

[meager jasper]

The thing I've gotta ask is... where are you getting this from? Do you have some real statistics showing the people who play pve actively hate pvp?

[grizzled hull]

there no stats and there isnt for you either, but there is a fact that there are players that don't like pvp, they definitely exist

[meager jasper]

No, there isn't stats, and my argument isn't based on statistics. It's based on targetted marketing

[grizzled hull]

mine is also based on targetted marketing

[meager jasper]

No, it isn't. You're actively stating we should pander to two audiences by making two different game systems in one game. That's what I'm calling out.

[grizzled hull]

well i can tell you just dont like pve, i wont get anywhere with this i'll just agree to disagree

[meager jasper]

You're projecting something totally weird. PvE as a game style is actually one of my favourite things. I love bossing. I love just going through maps looting chests. I'm not even that big on PvP, in fact I increasingly dislike how it is.

And I think you're doing it on a game-wide level too. You're just projecting something that isn't true. And isn't grounded in any sort of marketable reality. It's not rocket science when I say your core audience is who you should be catering to, and pandering to multiple audiences inherently dilutes all media. This is known. This is fact.

Mostly because the game is incomplete if you view it as a pve-only game. You can't dilute the danger and complexity and expect both sides to stay in half of the thing they want. You just create a negative feedback loop that way, where people drain away because nobody's happy with it.

[broken rapids]

Thats not true, eventually any player in this type of game start doing PvP.

For example I started 3 seasons ago, made myself to demigod 1st season only by PvE style.
2nd 50:50
And this season i finished 70% PvP oriented and 30% PvE.

Also my friends started more and more PvP and to be fair, they are hyper PvE farmers at all other games.

Mostly its problem of beign scared to lose items.. BUT if player get knowledge and start building good sets, pvp will became easier -> less scared -> brace the fear if meet someone.

Ad:
This game is best as Dungeon Crawler PvE oriented +additional PvP possibility.
But if players are forced to do any of these 2 points - its wrong and bad for community overall.

Which Connects to banning friendly interactions, no Fog of war and mostly Swarm circle.

[icy knot]

Noob PVP problems:
Skill diff
Class diff(balance)
Gear diff
😦

[dusty wagon]

Arena maps need be changed current rotation is clearly worst one yet

[granite knot]

Arena is on?

Why aren't we allowed to vote on maps? What's the worst that can happen?

[dusty wagon]

Rework ranged damage, ranged should never deal more damage than a melee 2her hit, why does longbow do as much damage as a quarter staff, etc etc

[surreal prism]

How much dmg do you think it should do?

[ashen canyon]

If you’re playing a PVPVE game, and not enjoying the pvp aspect even when you lose. I would direct you to another game, not be like Hey, this game that’s pvpve, they took the pvp out so you could enjoy it.

The whole point of a PvP game is the challenge, and if you find the pve in this game challenging, I’m going to tell you play it more. Then come back after a thousand hours and tell me how riveting the pve is. Meanwhile I’ll have been in the fucking trenches of the PvP dying and killing and actually playing the game.

If the PvP is the part you don’t like, go play god of war, Baldurs gate, kingdom come deliverance, don’t play a PvP game.

[dusty wagon]

A proportional amount relative to the risk taken probs

[surreal prism]

Well you do know how strong a long bow is in real life right?

[ashen canyon]

Well you do know that if you get hit by ANY weapon in this game in real life you’ll die right?

Like not trying to be mean here but real life doesn’t compare hear, if that was the case, they’d have damage type resistances based on type of melee damage like bludgeoning piercing and slashing

[dusty wagon]

not rly relevant to in game balance IMO, couldn't care less, also a warmaul hit would 1 shot/break bones of anyone in 1 hit, etc etc

[surreal prism]

Yeah but a long bow is a strong weapon in games real life lots of stuff

It shouldn't be as strong as a quarter staff I will say that

[ashen canyon]

It’s still a strong weapon, just not a weapon meant for close range, the weapon itself is strong no cap, however the time to use it is where the issue lies. Build action speed and use it like a surv bow, you’ll enjoy the shit out of it as long as you keep distance

[surreal prism]

That's one issue being able to shoot it like a survival bow now but if you do that you are going to lose it's true power

[ashen canyon]

If your able to shoot it like a surv bow, trust me your giving up a lot elsewhere that makes up for it.

[surreal prism]

For example in real life people with a bow like a survival one would shoot really fast by also make sure to pull the string back just enough to pack a punch

It wasn't meant to be dealing lots of damage to someone the survival bow but a long bow you have to take the time to line up your shot pull the string far back enough for it Peirce someone's armour

It will stack a punch if they use it like a survival bow but if they dont use it as a survival bow you will have the long bow more

Because I have watched people and have had it happen to me get one shot in the head from a long bow

[somber wind]

• Quick-Queue; Ability to Queue into a Populated Lobby ignoring Map, only choice maintained is PVE, Normals, Highroller or Highroller+.

• Map Highlight; To increase incentive to go to specific maps, each day there will be a highlighted map for that week. You will get an additional 100 Luck on that map. We hav 360 queues, adding incentive to go to a singular map would likely make atleast 1/3rd more of the community congregate to that map causing a functional lowering of 40 queues.

• Map Availability; I believe to force diversity, everyday 1 map should be not available (when we have alot more maps than just our 3 then it should be 33%. For example if we had 9 maps I think it should be 3 instead of 1). This is ment to lower the amount of queues due to us have 360 queues (3 maps, 5 modes, 3 party size and 8 regions) ignoring Arena, If 1 map wasn't available each day this would lower it by 120 queues to 240.

These 3 together would make the game feel more populated going from 360 queues to an effective 200 queues and if you don't care which map you go to Quick-Play guaranteeing filled lobbies.

Thoughts?

[surreal prism]

Well I am just a ice cavern lover so I wouldn't really play the game without I've caves but it's a pretty good idea

But then another issues comes up you are just filling up one map with the extra 100 luck on that map

[somber wind]

Yeah I can see it for sure also causing players to just not play on certain days due to wanting to just play the map of their choice. That said I do think people like us (cause ik I'd do it too) would capitulate to the "I wanna play" here and there and play anyways.

[somber wind]

Ah but you could argue then there would be people who go "Oh sick, people aren't on Crypts and just in Ice Caves. Time to go farm Lich on HR+." which other people will say the same thing and wait for those people. Which is why I said about 1/3rd extra would end up in 1 map instead of everyone.

[surreal prism]

I mean that is true aswell

You do being up very valid reasons I just don't want the only two maps a day one to be true I love ice caverns to much :C

[somber wind]

It's a heavy incentive but not so much that it'll sway everyone. 100 Luck isn't super crazy.

[surreal prism]

It is this wipe not since the buff to pick happend making it way more worth it

[somber wind]

Nah and I completely agree with you tbh, this is just a better option than when we had map rotation. Something like this has to happen, I think this is the most agreeable.

[surreal prism]

Oh god not the map rotation I remember when I started playing again and I was sitting in lobby waiting for solo ice caverns

[somber wind]

Were you around when rotation was 1 hour?

[surreal prism]

Thankfully not

That must have been annoying waiting a hour for you to just go try and kill troll

[somber wind]

The difference with rotation was only 1 map was available to you depending on group size. My suggestion would be always atleast 2 (3 if Arena is available) and when we get more maps it'd instead be 2/3rds of maps available (So if we had 9 maps, 3 would be disabled each day/6 would be available).

[surreal prism]

I do kinda like that change but not to much aswell

[somber wind]

I think it's the least of the evils.

[surreal prism]

Yeah it's the best iron mace can do for now without ruining the game

[somber wind]

Yeah exactly, map rotation in of itself was a poison pill because of it literally forcing you to play 1 map. You didn't get even a choice. Lowering Map rotation to 15 minutes and then later like 3 minutes really didn't help enough. So either it ruined things or it didn't do enough and just annoyed people.

[surreal prism]

I think maybe 5 minutes is a good time to wait cause I can wait 5 mins

[somber wind]

And that is the issue, you could wait so it did nothing. You didn't join the queue so you didn't help populate the map selected.

[surreal prism]

That's also true

I remember when I first started and waited like 6 mins every time to just go play goblin caves

[somber wind]

Rotation with low times doesn't solve the issue, it needs to be longer but also not be literally 1 option.

Rotation made it "Ok only Crypts for 1 hour" where mine would be "Ok no Crypts for 1 day and Ice Caves gives extra loot; Do you want to go to Ice Caves or Goblin Caves?".

Incentivized to go do Ice Caves for generic loot but also given Incentive to do Goblin Caves Bossing due to lower population. In this situation both maps have an allure.

[surreal prism]

But then I'm the future if there is 3 maps then it is the same issue as now

[somber wind]

Yes and no, you'd still have 2/3rds of the map pool allowing even more variety of choice.

[indigo grail]

they really should remove some of the modes, make highroller one conjunction, make commons one conjunction, remove either solos or duos, and go on map rotation, 1 hour rotations isnt bad but preferably make it up to 2 hour rotations, this makes it so there isn't many dead lobbies but people can still play different maps in one day to do quests or loot different things

[somber wind]

Map rotation feels horrible since it means only 1 map is available. It harms player choice really hard, inverting it so only 1 map (or 33% in the future) is unavailable allows for player choice and still cuts down the queue pool by quite alot. The highlight I mentioned before also incentivizes players instead of railroading them. I'd like to keep Solo, Duo, Trio if we can help it by doing other things.

[indigo grail]

i get what you're saying but with the current standing of the game they should do 1 map available at a time, sure it damages player choice but its better for the current situation we find ourselves in, i agree though and i like the idea but i think we should prioritize a smaller queue then player map choice when inevitably they'll be able to play that map either way that same day

[somber wind]

Currently we have 360 queues, if we were to restrict it to 2 maps it'd go down to 240 and if even 1/3rd additional is swayed by map highlights it'd go to an effective 200 queues. Mix that with Quick play guaranteeing populated games and I think it's enough.

[surreal prism]

He changed pfp mid convo lols

[indigo grail]

but if you look at player numbers the distribution of these players it still wont really be enough, 200 queues is still a lot, and moving itdown to 1 map would cut that down a lotim not gonna domath because i just finished an exam and am lazy, but maybe if we had a little bit more players i think your option would definetly be better, i love having a verity of maps to play and having the choice to choose but this is damaging the game

[indigo grail]

I most definitely did lol

[somber wind]

Actually 6000 (undershotting it) divided by 200 is 30 players per lobby if distributed evenly, right now it's 16 players per lobby if distributed evenly; Right now you see players maybe every other other lobby due to low density and this would almost double frequency making it every other lobby. Mixed with a way to guarantee to see people (Quick-play) and it makes it so most of the time you still see people. However I can capitulate abit and make another suggestion:

Where there is highlights each day, twice a week 1 map is chosen to be the only map available that day (The days of the week it is would be rotating being: Monday+Friday, Tuesday+Saturday, Wednesday+Sunday, repeat).

[visual igloo]

Why no one selling old rusty keys?

[indigo grail]

i actually do lik that idea and i think that would work pretty well, i still do think that either solos or duos kinda need to be removed until we have a larger player base

[jolly leaf]

Because they're not worth using/harder to farm than golden and skull key

[full patrol]

I'm not a fan of being forced to play only part of the game I paid for on any given day. That doesn't seem like it's going to be a W imo.

[somber wind]

I agree with you, I don't like that compromise but if we have to have it at some point having it be an "event" is better than all the time like map rotation did.

[jolly leaf]

How about a variant of map rotation like the game Smite.
The map rotation timer would be down to 1 minute. People who want to play the current map join a big queue. When the timer end we look at how many player have joined, create as many lobby as needed and split people/group in those lobby.

That way there's no empty lobby

I made a suggestions about that when the map rotation system was still a thing. It might not bé very accurate anymore but it could still work https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/576260/improvement-to-the-new-matchmaking-system-and-map-rotation (I didn't wrote the comment below)

[somber wind]

They did that, it didn't help. People would wait for the map they wanted.

[jolly leaf]

No they didn't? I don't recall anything like that ever. Everyone have to wait to end of timer for the game to start for everyone at the same time. So you know how many lobby you can fill

I'm not sure if i'm being clear as english is not my first language but with this system even if people wait for the map they want there is not empty or half empty lobby

[jolly leaf]

If I remember correctly the map rotation system used to work that way : You have a 15 min span (later only 3 min) where you can press ready to start a game. The game try to match you with people and start a game as soon as possible, if it doesn't found enough player the game start anyway after a couple of minute (especially if you joi' the queue at the end of the rotation timer).

With my idea everyone get ready and the game start for everyone at the end of the timer. So you can join in the last 5 sec and still be matched with the other who waited the whole minute. That way the game simply look at how many player are ready at the end of that minute and create as many lobby.

[somber wind]

AH ok I see what you're saying.

[jolly leaf]

and what do you think about it? Any flaws?

[somber wind]

I'm not sure because I know that people will see this then ingame go "Why are queues longer" even though it's better and just say "Damn SDF ruining the game again".

So although it works it'd cause PR issue.

[jolly leaf]

The only "issue" I see is that for exemple lets pretend a lobby is 10 player. If 35 people are ready after the 1 minute timer the game create 3 lobby, and then you have to make a choice for the 5 people remaining. Either start an half empty lobby, or dont start a game but give them priority for the next queue they're in

[somber wind]

Thoughts on that being what "Quick Play" is?

[jolly leaf]

Probably but still I think 1 min is bearable

[somber wind]

^ this was my old suggestion, still stand by it with your addition as being how Quickplay functions.

[jolly leaf]

And as I said it's 1 min max. If you join the queue in the last 5 sec you only waited 5 sec and still have full lobby

[somber wind]

Yeee

[jolly leaf]

That could work but I think people will be even more upset about a map not being available or their map not being highlighted than a 1 min queue

Let's start by the 1 minute queue and if it's not enough try system like highlight and availability

The main issue with my idea is that it totally kill the Continuous dungeon, you can't join dungeon who already started anymore, and it make it harder to refill at the start of each floor. Although a full rotation is only 3 min so you could make people join a game that have started only 3 minutes ago, not so different than now.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/576260/improvement-to-the-new-matchmaking-system-and-map-rotation

[strong marsh]

rework banshee https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/639955/rework-banshee

[icy knot]

@surreal prism bows are in perfect spot. Dodge arrows stand behind something. Wait for reload.

[barren grove]

if u dont want the boss rooms to be locked ( or u guys wont implement it ) i think its fair to add an item that locks boss doors until a boss dies

bec i kid u not i spawn on cavetroll module and i literally had to stop cavetroll fight 6 times in a row to wipe the lobby

name it something like " barrier seal "

also make banshee drop stuff bec that boss is USELESS

[icy knot]

Yo what if you could not choose map for HR(artefacts)? Everyone who wants to play this hardcore mode would be thrown into one map just to fill it up.

• People would of course don't like that
• But it's HR deal with it?

Same could be done with PVE mode as this should be training ground,
not money farming mode. This could be a factor that would make people play normal mode.

(dumb take)

[barren grove]

add something thats like a loot box that u need to extract with and open it in your "hide out" that they should add
more stuff for economy to spend on

[icy knot]

Someone suggested HR PVE mode. Do it, but make it so it swaps with normal PVE mode maybe for 1 day, at weekends or other day to not have it during arena. (With close to normal PVP loot)
@keen onyx @full tulip

[icy knot]

Make only 1 HR to choose from: lower HR (Uniques drop) five days a week, and higher HR (Artifacts drop) two days a week.
These are the events we need in the game to reduce number of queues.

• Nothing gets removed
• We have an events in the game
• Number of queues is reduced

Try do to the same with normal PVP mode as there are 2 currently.
You can have multiple short events throughout the entire week, not just on weekends.

@keen onyx @dawn grotto

[dark phoenix]

Shit game innit

[bold isle]

Add items that increase in rarity as the player descends.

Make items with rarity higher than Epic now common on the 1st floor (first floor).

However, this item is basically worthless, and will rust if the player escapes the floor they obtained it from.

This item's rarity increases as the player descends the floor. However, the maximum rarity is set in advance.

Ironmace has tried to make lower floors drop good items, or add Expressman, as a way to encourage players to descend the floors.
However, many players still do not descend the floors.
The reason is that players think that PvP and Boss hunting on the first floor are enough.
This item will give players the feel of getting an untradeable key or boss summon item from the upper floors.

I also thought about the appropriate reason why the items undergo such changes. The immortal magic of the Forgotten Castle affected time, and the weapons and treasures affected by it are now rusted, but when they get close to the floor where the Ghost King is, they return to their original form.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/639961

[surreal prism]

I wasn't saying they are broken?

[bold isle]

Players lose experience points every time they die.

Experience loss is calculated as a %, so lower level players will see minimal experience loss.
Revert the max level back to level 20.

If an ally escapes the dungeon with your Soul Heart, you will not lose any experience.

There are two effects I expect from this change:

1. The risk of death in the Squire kit becomes more certain.
   Explanation:
   Right now, the Squire kit is just an arena, few people move to the lower levels, and everyone wants to enjoy PvP without risk.
   Originally, the design was such that you had to descend to get a better gear, since the queue wasn't divided into gears, but as you know, that doesn't work anymore.
   I think that with the addition of the experience loss rule, players will more likely choose to descend for the reward that matches the risk.

2.Dead allies will be less likely to immediately leave your session and party.
Description:
There are many cases where allies leave the game right away even though they can be revived.

This means that if an ally dies on the upper floor, the number of people in the party will decrease compared to other parties when descending, making them hesitate to descend.

When you can't revive allies, it's a good party experience to escape with the soul hearts of allies instead.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/639949

[icy knot]

my bad I was referring to this
#suggestion-discussion message

[bold isle]

The purpose of this suggestion is to send players who don't go down to the lower floors to the lower floors. It's not intended to send other players down to the lower floors by adding items that can only be obtained from the lower floors.

[surreal prism]

oh yeah no bows are not in a good spot same with crossbows

[bold isle]

Ranger and Rogue need to be reworked.

sdf had too much expectation on movement speed and it was always a mess.
When designing the monk class, we need to rework the ranger and rogue together.
@keen onyx

Shooting a bow as a ranger is really no fun. You need good gear to have fun shooting a bow, and monsters won't die even if they get hit with too many arrows and turn into hedgehogs.

@dawn grotto
You must either eliminate treasure rarities or make treasure rarities irrelevant to quests.

No one wants to memorize the rarities of treasures. I know you all copied Tarkov, but Tarkov's items are all different from each other, and each item is plausible in terms of engineering and technology.

@full tulip
Increase the number of breakable containers in the game, so that classes with low resourcefulness can only obtain items by breaking containers.
Each container should drop a different item, and high raritie items should still only drop from valuable chests.

@dawn grotto
Tutorials should be accessible in three ways:

1. Tutorial mode.
2. Quests.
3. Tome of Knowledge.
   Tutorial mode requires you to understand the game's movements through gameplay. Quests require you to understand the game through the UI. Tome of Knowledge should contain other game rules.
   Tutorials and quests should be designed with this in mind. Tutorials and quests should be in harmony.

Tutorials should not simply teach you how to play the game, but should also teach you how the game is structured and what it is all about.
A good example is Tome of Knowledge's "What you see is what you get."
The game is so different from other games that new players perceive it as "wrong" rather than "different."

[icy knot]

so separate damage into blunt, piercing, slash
give negative piercing resistance to some mobs?

[bold isle]

Do you want physical damage to have a separate damage calculation based on type?
I think Ranger and Rogue have unfun attack designs from the beginning.
This also applies to Barbarians, but Barbarians are better suited for that.

I think the classes that depend on Agility need to be reworked. It shouldn't be done by simply changing the numerical calculations.

[icy knot]

Do you want physical damage to have a separate damage calculation based on type? Why not?

[bold isle]

How much do you know about magical damage types?

[icy knot]

ym this much ?
https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Spell_types

[bold isle]

this
https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Monsters

[icy knot]

what do you want to know? 😅

[bold isle]

Do you fully understand the damage reductions based on magic type?

[bold isle]

Are the physical blunt, piercing, and slash damage types you mentioned really a product of understanding the game, or are they just fun to do?

[icy knot]

Well
Earth: -400% means weak
Ice: 50% means resistante to that type of damage

What is there to understand?
We can have it working for PVE
for PVP maybe in the future

[bold isle]

What I mean is, do you understand why Ironmace applied it that way?

[icy knot]

no

by the way there is something like projectile damage in the game
Projectile: 15%
so we have piercing it just needs to be decreased for some mobs?

Only pierce and blunt is missing
Or maybe piercing needs to be seperate from projectiles idk

[bold isle]

@icy knot
Ah, I get it.
So you don't like the fact that the Projectile type is in the game,
but the damage types like pierce and blunt aren't in the game?

@keen onyx
The change to damage reductions for magical damage seems to increase the same issues as with Holy Purification.
The game is so full of problems that it's hard to even explain the problems. I think the problem isn't that Holy Purification is too powerful, but that it's too easy to subdue monsters with magic.
Honestly, it feels good to kill a skeleton in one shot with fire magic, but it feels a bit off from the spirit of the game.

[icy knot]

So you don't like the fact that the Projectile type is in the game, I didn't say that. I like it
It just adds so much depth to the game.

[bold isle]

So how do players enjoy depth? If a game has depth, is it necessarily fun?

If a monster that you think is weak to blunt isn't weak to blunt in Ironmace's opinion, is the game still deep and fun?

[icy knot]

The game is so full of problems that it's hard to even explain the problems. I think the problem isn't that Holy Purification is too powerful, but that it's too easy to subdue monsters with magic. But its a skill of the worst PVE character in the game

Yes its very easy, the resistance numbers were added and were not adjusted at all.
I fell somewhat bad for all non magical classes as I can do this:
#warlock message and they don't. (Pls don't nerf hellfire it is pert of skill expression and mostly only I do this)

[icy knot]

it is for me. Game is so simple and boring(enter dungeon, loot, kill, exit) that any type of content is just good addition.
Like cockatrice, demonfly<3, unique mobs...

[bold isle]

You seem like the best player for this game.
Ironmace must have whitelisted you.

[icy knot]

imagine if Lightning damage dealt 5% more damage because other player is wearing plate armor 🥵

choosing correct spells for the enemy is amazing addition to skill/knowledge expression that this game is lacking

[bold isle]

I don't really think about it, the type of damage is not a topic of interest to me.

[icy knot]

#warlock message
uniques being more common = Less Boss Farming = Less time spent in the dungeon?

[narrow sinew]

Except cleric is by far the best pve class right now

[icy knot]

I wonder how non magical classes could also benefit from mob resistances:

• add blunt, pierce, slash resistances as discussed
• make torches apply fire damage
• make it so player can ignite his weapon using oil and fire from torch
• add vile of weak poison to the game that can be applied on weapons + add Poison resistance to all mobs

[primal skiff]

@keen onyx Lots of us love your work and attention to the game. I want to express deepest gratitude to you for creating such a unique and fun gaming experience. While we all respect addressing game balance, I believe it is distraction from the important elements of development that may require more dedicated attention. We thirst for content! 🙂 Highly recommend the video recently posted by Ryan6daysAweek ❤️ Keep up the great work, I'll donate some funds when I can to support your efforts.

Guilds, Guild raids, and guild-related stuff fit fantasy mmo vibes and was my favorite suggestion from the video ^_^ Love you Iron Mace. Keep doing great things! Dark and Darker deserves to be a top rated title on Steam!

[hollow estuary]

community servers are the only content i want, otherwise get someone else on game balance

[icy knot]

friendly fire switch in community server or PVE = 📈

[ripe turtle]

Okay, here me out! For too long we've been given information about new cool ideas and such and haven't seen anything concrete for months (quiver idea was from couple years ago?) We haven't seen anything major in a long time. As a veteran player myself from playtest 2, I see things are not looking good for Dark and Darker. We have only seen these "micro" hotfixes to tune the game for better or worse. Why do these things if only to change them later? Why there's no progress towards official release of Dark and Darker?

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/640251/ironmace-should-have-100-focus-on-developing-dark-and-darker < I have put this suggestion in hopes that Ironmace would see it and consider the possibility of laying low and just build their game the way it was supposed to be, the way it was visioned years ago.

[full patrol]

We have all these cool emotes and skins, but we can't use them to their full potential. I would love to dungeon crawl in the HR and drop a campfire that lasts, have other adventures come sit with you, enjoy a turkey leg or some kabobs, tell stories or trade items.

To me, that would be more fun than being chased through the dungeon by 'sweatyneckbeard_01' who thinks you should stand still while he kills you. 🙂

Edit: Also...could you turn the HR switch back on for Test server please. Thanks.

[bold isle]

I really agree with your suggestion and upvoted it right away.
But I have a question. Instead of adding a quiver to the game, why not just increase the maximum stack of arrows?

[meager jasper]

I would have agreed a while ago. But this meta is increasingly intolerable because they've mishandled it. The barb buffs need to be reversed. The druid buffs need to be reversed. THEN they can focus on what they should have been doing.

[icy knot]

I'm thinking the same way.
I hope next season will have normal gear and some mobility changes will be nerfed or reverted

[meager jasper]

The +alls and +movement meta, and the nature of uniques allowing way overinflated stats that should not be possible for certain classes are a big problem, imo. But they're abstract problems compared to the meta being dominated by a few overpowered classes.

It still astounds me they chose to do this. I still can't even wrap my head around why.

I feel like only someone who has no pulse on the game at all could have made these decisions. Like, I don't just disagree with them, they're so factually wrong they may as well have been made by an alien who has never even seen DaD and is changing it based on ideas regarding some other game.

[humble valley]

geniune question I hope someone might answer, why (as a ranger) do I have to stack my whole inventory with arrows when doing arenas and spend like 100g per arena while every other class doesn't rely on that? seems so odd to me

[meager jasper]

Because they promised back in PT4 we would get quivers and bags and then never did it because they have no capacity to focus on what they've promised, and instead just move balance numbers around ad nauseum.

[humble valley]

lmao makes sense, like at least give me back my arrows, im spending 2-4k gold just on arrows on arenas

[meager jasper]

We got sashes before quivers. Think about what that says about these devs.

[icy knot]

make arrows free? someone should make a suggestion

[meager jasper]

There's honestly no reason arrows shouldn't be infinite at this point. They used to be, by the way. I distinctly remember it was once just a reload button and you didn't actually need to store them. Functionally they are infinite because all rangers carry a lot of arrows and just discard them as need be.

And if arrows weren't infinite they should have quivers that are the only place you can store arrows. There's no good excuse to penalize a class like this just for being its class, using its inventory.

And then there's the treatment of the older classes. Barbs get love. Clerics get love. But wizard was nerfed and then ignored, despite having been promised sweeping overhauls when sorcerer came out. Rogue hasn't had a single weapon added to the class since PT4, so I'm told.

That's a long-ass time to wait for something to be added to what might be your main.

[broken rapids]

I wonder.. does any dev actually read this thread? becuase there is shitload of good ideas, but 0 response.

[full patrol]

IMO, bards get the shaft having to store the instruments. Those are another thing that could go away. Or at least work it down to 2 instruments.

[bold isle]

Even if a member of Ironmace responds to a player's idea, it will likely be a formal response.

[broken rapids]

They should use some emoji atleast :d

[icy knot]

They do, tomorrow I can provide some evidence if you want

I bet if they showed up here from time to time, people would feel encouraged to come here and share some awesome ideas.

[broken rapids]

Thats the point, I kinda stopped writing here, becuase 0 feedback.

Then its good to know! 🙂

[icy knot]

I have suspicion @sand zodiac might be one of the devs.
He got mad in the chat because we said we're doing the same job as devs but for free or something. 🤣

And then he provided an extraordinary understanding of other games.

[sand zodiac]

I don’t believe he is, but he seems like a pretty cool guy

[icy knot]

❤️

[meager jasper]

Poor bard in general. More than any class they have the least versatility. It's all just 10-song.

[sand zodiac]

Glad to see you’re still at it when it comes to helpful suggestions, however.

Keep it up

[granite knot]

Graysun said they don't care, it's in the wizard chat

[meager jasper]

If that's true, they're fools. And we're never going to get a good Dark and Darker from a company that can't accept feedback. It'll just be someone else who has to do it.

[granite knot]

I wish I was wrong on this one, but yeah...

[icy knot]

For example, in one Twitch stream, SDF confirmed they will be testing something related to dungeon recovery this season or next. I saw it somewhere—maybe in a YouTube video or elsewhere. It appeared after SDF’s comments in Yami’s stream, about two weeks ago. I’ve been looking for it again now for half an hour on the internet but couldn’t find it....

I think this might be related to this as this is simple change with few benefits:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/627564/make-dungeon-recovery-more-likely-to-return-selffound-items

Month after this suggestion Warlock weakness also got buffed. It was my first suggestion that worked, and it motivated me to keep going.

I think this suggestion made them change loot table for corpses + they overbuffed drop from them for a few weeks.

There was also a suggestion to stop players from using other characters as mules to sell items on marketplace

[broken rapids]

Since streamers did summery about DaD few days ago, I think they will start listen a lot more. (or, i just hope for it.)

[stark ridge]

Remove Sorcerer being able to grief treasure pile with rock spell to push people off of it in adventure mode, same thing happened with warlock doing it with hydra but glad it got fixed, hope this does too

[onyx pivot]

REMOVE mobs from arena

[paper apex]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/640336/free-arena-only-consumables
Give us an arena shop for consumables, but not all consumables. Just health potions, bandages, and protection potions of the lowest grade. Let them be free to use, ONLY in arena. If people want to bring in higher grade consumables, they can.

[dusty wagon]

rework ranged damage

[paper apex]

THIS
Just got killed by shotgun from 150hp

[nocturne forge]

no more skeleton recolors as rewards please 🙏

[scarlet fulcrum]

Kill Poor quality gear, and shift all gear quality 1 down.
Green becomes the new common, rare the new green, etc.
easier to balance, easier to get into the game.

[chrome jungle]

Guys just use an CHANGELOG.md in ur games repo, but a hook on ur ci pipeline, show it ingame and post it into discord. No need to manually write/copy stuff

[meager jasper]

This wasnt nearly as much of a problem until all gear hyperinflated the amount of stats you can get so I think this arises from this wipes gear changes.

[icy knot]

Wasn't poor quality gear created so people can enter dungeon in it and don't have huge stat advantage?
You can ask as well to nerf gear diff, especially in High end. Easier to balance, and people like high TTK

[icy knot]

By the way, I really like the idea of completing quests from the squire to earn better starting gear. These quests affect gameplay the most as you can start with stronger gear..

However, I think adding quests for green (uncommon) gear might be too much—unless those quests are introduced near the end of the season.

But what if the squire didn't provide any gear(poor) at the very start of the season?
That would encourage players to open every single chest in the dungeon instead of rushing straight to points of interest like bosses. It would create a gameplay loop similar to Rust, though players should at least be equipped with a weapon.
Poor quality starting gear could either be unlocked week/s later in the season by:

• completing first squire quests
  or
• appear automatically as this would help avoid confusion, especially for new players who might not realize quests exist (though I think they would figure it out eventually).

This way, you could shift the common squire gear quests further into the later parts of the season.

@keen onyx @full tulip

[icy knot]

Are items getting cheaper when completing quests from merchants?
Why not add quests that gradually make utilities like arrows cheaper—until they’re eventually free?

[torn night]

my suggestion is that sdf writes down his full vision of the game and releases it to the players, he could keep some things hidden in a sense if he wants to have surprises but id just love to know a general direction of where this game is headed. Communication would be a beautiful thing for this game

[icy knot]

I think his original vision was a low TTK where one player could wipe out the entire enemy team. We tried it—it didn’t work.

I still believe it’s possible to achieve that goal, but not in the way SDF approached it. It’s not about lowering the TTK; it’s about introducing more skill-expression mechanics like this one:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/639288/weaker-counterattack-for-all-classes

[dusty wagon]

Rework ranged damage

[wicked grove]

Resign

[craggy dragon]

bring back server selection.

[bold isle]

Are you saying that all classes should be able to play Counterattack?
I welcome these changes, but they probably don't fit with the sdf 'vision'.

[ashen canyon]

I don’t think every class needs to be able to counter attack, it would cause a lot of situations where you just have two people blocking at each other waiting for one of them to screw up lol

[icy knot]

not play it should be ingame mechanic for all shields

[jolly leaf]

I think it could be a thing if they improve a bit the stagger system. If you can block with every weapon, then the impact power/impact resistance need to be adjusted. For exemple, now you can block with dagger, if you try to block another dagger you block it completely and got only a light stagger. If you try to block a Rapier or a Viking sword type of weapon (Short sword, one hand axe, mace etc) you get a medium stagger. If you block a "light" two handed weapon, or a "heavy" one handed, like morning star, crystal sword, magic staff, maybe longsword you get a heavy stagger. And if you try to block a big two handed weapon, Zwei, Double axe, halberd etc it just go through and you still take damage, maybe reduced a bit

[ashen canyon]

The thing that gets me more is weapons should have clash I feel like, and mobs attacks should bounce off more than just shields. Weapon clash would be something like if I’m swinging a longsword and your swinging a rapier, I feel it should push it off, but maybe that would be more problematic than helpful.

I just don’t like rapier and daggers being able to swing so much faster than a longsword or halberd bardiche etc, and be able to do more damage because of the action speed and true damage

[jolly leaf]

⬆️

[ashen canyon]

Like I’m not saying you should drop your weapon if my weapon hits yours, but maybe a stagger?

[jolly leaf]

Exactly, the stagger need to be more impactful and more used

[ashen canyon]

But a rogue being able to run right up on me, be in my halberds weakspot area and me unable to get out of it because I’m wearing plate and he’s wearing cloth but has 5-7 true phys just eating me alive for no reason

The weapons attack slow enough (the bigger ones) that you can run up in between strikes and get a few hits off still giving opportunity to fight

[jolly leaf]

Yeah, unless they play the right perk and skill with a kit build around armor pen, rogue shouldn't be able to 1vs1 a plate fighter in melee combat

[bold isle]

sdf wouldn't want to have a situation where classes other than fighters and bards would be able to shield parry without multiclassing.

[icy knot]

bardiche can block
there can be more types of mechanics

[meager jasper]

It's weird. There's no world in which any person with a knife kills someone with a long-ranged weapon and in plate in general unless they manage to grapple them in reality. The point of plate and big, nasty weapons is that they're force multipliers. They do make you stronger than someone who is not wearing or using them, period. The thing is, rogue can't really exist in any real way, because it is a pure fantasy. They need to give rogue some strange and sweeping advantage in order to allow them to exist.

While we're talking about strange advantages that aren't realistic. Wearing plate does not meaningfully impact your ability to move. That's pure fiction. If you were slow in plate you'd be dead in real life too.

[jolly leaf]

The suggestion is a bit old but what's you though on that https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/563627/rogue-rework-suggestion-master-of-poisons

I'd like to see a rogue who work a bit like a support who debuff the ennemy to help his team, instead of a mosquito or landmine which is unfun/unfair to play against

[meager jasper]

Mm. I'm not sure if that would help. That just sounds like a different kind of warlock, and it's still insufferable to be shot repeatedly with a poisoned crossbow by someone you can't catch. And it just wouldn't work well unless they could skirmish because they'll always have fundamentally less hp and armor.

[jolly leaf]

Maybe the skill shouldn't apply to your crossbow but like when you choose the poison you want to use, you have a quick animation where you grab like 2 poisoned throwing knive to throw?

I see why you compare it to the Warlock but in fact don't really have that many debuff. I don't see the Rogue's poison dealing damage but debuff like reduced action speed, blurry vision stuff like that

[meager jasper]

If a rogue can duck in and out of your melee reach without dying that's even more frustrating, as an aside.

[bold isle]

Yeah, I understand. I always wanted the block-parry mechanism in quarterstaff.

[meager jasper]

This isn't about a debuff, this is about dps.

Unless you're suggesting it shouldn't kill people? Which is not really a solution to them either having something that works or not.

[jolly leaf]

I'm not sure, you think it'll do too much or not enough damage? Because, for me the debuff poison don't deal damage at all but the debuff either stay for a long time or are strong

[meager jasper]

Even if it kills them in a round about way it can be really toxic. Like imagine, say if you have to land it several times and it just stuns you for 10 seconds and at that time you can get close and kill them. That's still... really obnoxious if you couldn't hit them because of superficial speed bonuses.

You're talking about a theoretical debuff without being specific, which makes it difficult to say anything meaningful.

[bold isle]

But sdf wants to make a game by copying D&D.. sdf is just hiding it because they are afraid of getting sued if they tell the truth.

So if you want to suggest to sdf to improve the block mechanics, it would be best to use D&D as a bible and suggest that they implement it in the game like this.

[jolly leaf]

Well it's a general suggestion I haven't imagined a fully fonctionnal system but for me it would work like so : You have a skill that work like Spell memory that allow you to choose several debuff with effect like, action speed debuff, blinding the target you hit, draining spell charge of caster etc. After you choose the poison you want to use you have a quick animation where you apply the poison to your dagger and maybe apply it to one bolt of your hand crossbow? Or to equipped throwing knive or it give you 1 or two throwing knive with poison. That way you can't spam the poison at range and you can't switch from poison to poison too fast due to the animation between each change (maybe it need a cooldown between each change or to refresh the poison you just used). But yes fundamentally the rogue will stay a class with low hp and armor that feel a bit toxic as it rely on kitting and poking the target.

I don't know how it could be otherwise, the rogue is by essence "toxic"

[meager jasper]

Would that actually add anything to the game? To me, you shouldn't be giving classes that are already problematic at best sweeping new features UNLESS you're overhauling how they work to remove some of that toxicity.

Like, I'm fully behind wizard being overhauled, because it's lopsided in design. It's essentially too good in pvp and awful in pve. It's never had a reconsideration of features and it now looks very unattractive compared to sorc, even though it performs well in controlled arena settings. And all of its features are less pleasant to interact with from a wizard's perspective, like sitting and resting etc, while also being harder to balance than cooldowns etc because it's allowed to spam its spells.

A wizard overhaul would not just help wizard feel better, it would make the game around it less toxic.

[jolly leaf]

Yeah it would be a rework, that should replace the landmine side of rogue. Removing Ambush, nerfing Hide a bit, maybe less step or remove the speed buff or the 10 step, or maybe even add a damage malus to the first attack after Hide

[meager jasper]

I'm all for the removal of landmine, personally. It's the worst part of rogue from everyone else's perspective. I'd rather deal with new warlocks than landmines.

But it does raise the issue that it would be possible to stack warlock and rogue dps quite easily if these things were long-lasting and good. That's a bit of a serious balance concern. (though in fairness... I don't like warlock to begin with either as a player or opponent, and think it should also be heavily overhauled...)

[jolly leaf]

That's my point, sry if I haven't been very clear about it xD

[meager jasper]

S'totally fine. It's just important to get to motivations for these things when in a vacuum they are not actually that attractive to add.

[jolly leaf]

Well yeah it could become a anti-buffball where instead of buffing a lot someone your point is to debuff the other team a lot. That could be interesting and new, but it would for sure need to be tested and balanced

[jolly leaf]

What's your issues with Warlock?

[meager jasper]

The biggest concern I have with it is that from the perspective of playing it, it's not nearly as fun as something like sorcerer. It feels like it lacks punch. Even when it's been in its strongest states, it does not have good game feel.

From a broader perspective, all of its class features are on a knife-edge of being really overpowered at all times. Life recovery in the middle of combat. Phantomize. Rapidly cast spells that don't require any resource at max movement speed being untouchable.

Its best spells are hitscans. They can't be dodged once you're competent at targeting them.

Let me frame it with another class. What feels better both to play and fight:

A sorcerer who is forced to cycle through spells, all of which require either good timing or good aim and can be dodged or reacted to in some way. Having to pick the correct ones for his range and the moment and the terrain.

A wizard who runs up to you and casts zap three to four times.

[jolly leaf]

I'd like to see a Demon build or a Dark offering build work on warlock

He actually have several other option than Torture mastery but they're not viable

[meager jasper]

I was really surprised when druid came out and shapeshifting felt good, because demon form really doesnt.

I'm really surprised they've never overhauled it without the silly health drain and made it not just a straight upgrade form. It could be so much more interesting than what it is.

[jolly leaf]

Yeah, Demon form feeled a bit rushed. It was their first shot at transformation and they didn't take their time like they did with Druid

[meager jasper]

warlock has never really been a good melee class. I personally think it should enable that in some way.

Warlock above else feels like a mosquito - not just to fight, but to play. In my opinion it totally fails to capture its own class 'fantasy'.

[jolly leaf]

True

[meager jasper]

It has some really interesting ideas, like casting with health was actually fairly inspired, but I'd personally want the whole thing redone with more damage punch, and limits on spamming the same individual curse spells

And IM in my opinion really knocked sorcerer out of the park. They've shown they've gotten a better handle on how to make mages, and make them relatively fun and balanced.

Sorc is so versatile, has no limits on how many times it can cast, has tools for every situation, and still has enough weaknesses where you can visibly see wizards still outperform them in a straight dps race. They're so much better designed than any of the other mages in the game imo, and I think they show a clear blueprint for how the other full caster classes should be.

[jolly leaf]

Yep, I wonder how the Monk will be. Are they going to suceed making a melee class as cool as Sorc?

[barren grove]

add boss door seal item

[barren grove]

remove goldsmith gemming unironically or make it more expensive to gem. good gear has become too common and the value of gear is now either its full legendary good rolls or artifact or its worth nothing and it wont sell on market

[meager jasper]

goldsmithing has nothing to do with the value of gear right now. The value of gear being the way it is is because there's no place for lower gear in any of the game modes because of the disparity in loot drops between lobbies.

If, for example, the rare-max lobby had the same drop rates as the HR lobby, blues would be incredibly valuable.

[barren grove]

that is exactly what i want. the feeling of running something you know is rare and is wanted. and not looking at a kit thats all lab crafted and going oh. thats enough money for meds

its at a point where only just a couple pieces are worth money and the rest just sucks. looting treasure brings more money

before gemming. true phys rings on green were 200 gold a piece. economy was doing great if u started fighting

[meager jasper]

We have very different wants. I want loot to be plentiful and easy to get, and I think it is right now. I preferred the way it was last wipe though.

[barren grove]

yeah but what will happen once everyone has loot? what do u fight for in an extraction game about looting?

[meager jasper]

That's not "the economy doing great". High prices preventing people from playing certain classes is not healthy.

[barren grove]

thats also very true. maybe just make gemming somewhat more expensive or harder to gem

rare gems are like 20 gold and are selling at vendor price right now.

[meager jasper]

Personally I think the game would be markedly better if there was no +flat damage in the game. (or +all or +move)

[barren grove]

+all is pretty okay but movespeed shouldnt be a thing.

make it so certain classes benefit more from stacking certain stats and less from other stats. barbs should get less multiplier from agility. rogues shouldnt be stacking too much vigor

barbs already get % movespeed from all their abilities

[meager jasper]

The way I see it this wipes changes were bad for that. This wipe made it so it was way easier to get more stat points in basically every piece of gear. No longer is it only high numbers from the core piece, now you can get +3s on chests etc. More stats on rings and so on.

We can do more than ever with stats right now, basically negating a lot of the weaknesses and uniqueness of certain classes.

If you're willing to get uniques, you can run a max PDR sorc right now, for instance. And I don't think that kind of thing should be possible really.

[barren grove]

they need to rework the stats on classes again. wizards should get more benefit from will and knowledge than any other class

instead of 1% magic power for each stack it should be 2

[meager jasper]

They should never have reduced the magic damage scaling. Will is a totally dead stat right now, almost.

[barren grove]

i only stack will on my pickpocket rogue now its crazy. speaking of that im perma invis on green gear in normals thanks to religion LMAOOO

also add a crystal sword mastery to warlock

[icy knot]

Landmine Rogue is the worst thing in the game
Using Hide should have a downside:

• nerfed damage
  or
• visible when close to other player

[icy knot]

YES
@DEVS PLS

[icy knot]

Given that Marketplace will be open from the start of the season, I suggest significantly reducing the number of listings and making more listings unlockable through different quests. This would reduce over-reliance on the marketplace.

@keen onyx @dawn grotto

@meager jasper You might not like this idea, but I’d like to ask: What do you think would happen if there was only one marketplace listing for everyone? Maybe 1 is too much? Maybe 3 is better number?

[meager jasper]

For listings? You wouldn't be able to rapidly earn money and that would heavily devalue the feeling of getting any value out of your loot. You would also be incentivized to only sell rapidly-shifting things like resources.

I think the current number of listings is fine. I see no issue with the marketplace's implementation and I disliked the start of this season because it increased gear diff issues.

I can tell you that even if they soft-banned the marketplace like you're essentially suggesting, near the start, I would be more inclined to just not play the game during that time. And if it was quest-locked I'd be upset and probably not want to grind through them.

But that's only my surface-level reaction. I don't see it as completely impossible to make that engaging. It would just have to be fast.

I don't like that kind of pointless metaprogression though. I also don't think they'll do it because they're offering them as value propositions in their seasonal dlc right now

It's a mistake to make sweeping negative changes you know people will hate right now. Again, I want balance changes that happened this wipe to be undone, then I want more content. This kind of thing is another systemic change that isn't needed.

It would only serve to push more and more people away.

[icy knot]

I understand your point of view.
There are two types of players, like me and you: those who like SSF and those who prefer the Marketplace.
Why not find a middle ground? Reduce Marketplace influence at least at the start of a season?
Few listings less wouldn't hurt nobody?

[meager jasper]

Recently I played Mistfall Hunter or whatever it's called by the way. And that game has a camp building creation system that I really liked (that's completely seperate from quests, which only offer rewards rather than meta-progression). This camp can do a number of things like give you temporary buffs, improve an 'estus' flask system, and is tied to the market's level. The difference between that game and this though is that even the rare resources are not that rare when you know what you're looking for. You can put in the time to get one tier upgrade in a match or two in that game.

Much of my problem with the system you describe is simply that I know these devs are not good quest designers. These quests blow. They're grindier than they need to be rather than challenges you can complete in a single run.

I know that if they started locking yet more meta-progression behind quests, that it wouldn't be pleasant because these devs have no real respect for player time. They are stuck in a very Korean grinding-heavy mindset.

[icy knot]

Much of my problem with the system you describe is simply that I know these devs are not good quest designers. These quests blow. They're grindier than they need to be rather than challenges you can complete in a single run.
So truee

[meager jasper]

Everything in this game comes down to grind at the higher levels.

If it were up to me, every skeleton champion would drop golden keys 50% of the time, or something like that. Scarcity from differences in gear enchantments is one thing, but resource/utility scarcity is not good design in my opinion.

There's just no reason it's this way other than to make a false scarcity situation. All golden keys do is open a door to a loot room that's slightly better than the others and yet they enforce this system where the keys are thousands of gold pieces by themselves based on speculation because of that false scarcity.

This egg and feather nonsense is such a huge example of it. I still don't have my egg, by the way. Though I've not been aggressively focusing on it at this point because I know trying will just annoy me.

[icy knot]

i got it after 2nd try. I don't grind in this season at all, I got tired of it. I completed maybe only 16quests

I would be so much better: cookatrice nest wiht 50% Egg chance + 2 different cookatrices protecting the nest. Its literally free content at least for me.

[meager jasper]

My thought was: why not make the feather a very common drop from norms/pve and the egg a very common drop from hr?

Encourage interaction with both modes. One run each, maybe two or three if you're unlucky.

I do feel like most resources should not be even dropped from the same table as other gear btw. Like it should be every mob that drops resources should have a slot where you either get 50%ish chance to drop a resource, and that never competes with any potential gear dropping.

[icy knot]

It's not hard to come up with ideas. They just added Cookatrice with the same AI and mechanics, only a few new moves. All you have to do is exactly what you've been doing all along: kill it and loot it. It's boring.

they can even make cookatrice immortal and just mission to steal an egg

They start so many small projects but never finish or improve them like with FOG
Maybe because its early access, they just test stuff what people like, idk

[meager jasper]

sighs in the return of dark swarm

[icy knot]

My bad, i asked for it.
Yet I'm Still not playing HR because of class/gear imbalance

[meager jasper]

I've been partly enjoying and partly hating it.

The dramatic gear drop rates in HR are lovely. But every once and a while a druid will just leap across a room and slaughter me with no recourse, y'know?

And the barbarians. Ugh.

[icy knot]

The Vision

[abstract bone]

Just you zen tbh. Slamming druids into the ground hasn't been easier on my warlock.

[meager jasper]

They're weaker at the lower end, I've noticed. But gear and in HR? Not a chance.

I suspect sorcs are more vulnerable to druid silences than warlock though, right now.

[icy knot]

Warlock has specific tanky build druids hate

[abstract bone]

even in HR they dying hella ez unless its a true unique stacked guy they hurt still but that gears hella top 1%

[icy knot]

But even if you play with this specific 'Kill All the Druids' build you have a high chance of dying to other classes. Warlock is not a good mele character as he lacks mele perks and stats.

[silent grove]

Wouldn't the most easy fix to Warlord n Lich third partys is making the blue portal in the middle a option? (Like ghost king)

I understand it counter acts the fact u cant really do much to steal the 'Loot" but ur not really enticed to the loot if you cant kill the boss yourself or something ig

[visual igloo]

Goblin give me back my items if i Die (normal game )?

[feral juniper]

Hilghly suggest looking at the insane utility of magic damage versus cast time versus number of casts. Arena is a spam fest of slows and DOT. Absolutely ridiculous fighting sorcs and wizards in every single matchup

[sick sedge]

Getting really fucking tired of getting a 10 minute timeout because a teammate on low HP runs in front me while I'm killing an enemy in arena

Even though we won the match, the guy literally said "I'm going to punish you just cause I can"

[ashen canyon]

unless someone loots them from your body

[icy knot]

Invisibility for Demon Imp?
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/640795/make-demon-imp-turn-invisible-when-aggroed-by-a-player

[broken rapids]

Thats why Im asking like 2 seasons for Stat capping classes, so they feel unique.

[sonic bone]

need katana parry 🗣️

[icy knot]

Can't find SDF's recent twitch stream massages 😔

SDF pls communicate on discord what you are planning to do

[barren grove]

add a plant the bomb mode with rank and rewards and make it like a class type hero shooter mode. with autofill if someone doesnt play that extra class. would be fun

just like. ( this team can only have 1 ranger / 2 casters max 3 melee ) etc

also make arenas give rewards where u pay a solid fee to enter but get all the gold. or maybe make it a free for all

[icy knot]

Bro I don't think plant the bomb is good mode for this game

[barren grove]

its arenas with extra steps

[abstract bone]

and arena is a pretty terrible state considering we only get it on weekends like some marital dispute between SDF and the game.

[torn night]

game needs faster ttk and warlock spells need reworked entirely

[meager jasper]

Well I at least agree with half of that. Warlock needs redone, but I think bigger ttk is better for the game's health.

[boreal tundra]

Can we get a throwable item that summoned a random unit to assist the summoner could be a simple a buffer or healer, slow tank or ranged attacker, or something funny like a rat that pulls the agro of monsters. I look at Smashbros Assist Trophy for a general idea, they could take up a side slot.

[vocal temple]

They should make a looking for game chat for arena and one for normal runs.

[bold isle]

Without a fast TTK, there is no tension.

[tribal finch]

If you get a class to level 200 in a season you can choose 1 skill other classes can use.

[torn night]

hell nah bruh

[meager jasper]

Fast ttk removes tension and counterplay.

Fast ttk is the reason a wizard or ranger can kill you in a few seconds with zap or explosion with no recourse. That's not tension. Fast ttk=ranged meta.

[bold isle]

That's the same problem as landmine, that’s not fast TTK.

[icy knot]

idk if its just me but fast ttk is so confusing for me i have to think times while reading

[meager jasper]

?

What are you talking about. So gameplay is just not fast gameplay whenever you disagree with it? Landmine is absolutely the result of fast ttk too.

[icy knot]

Without Quick killing there is no tension.

Quick Killing removes tension and counterplay @meager jasper I though you are in favor of this Quick killing

[meager jasper]

Hell no. I've never said I like quick deaths. I like there being enough room for counterplay.

[bold isle]

Because we can't communicate. Don't pay attention to what I write. I won't talk to you either.

[icy knot]

My bad, as I said TTK is sometimes confusing to me

[meager jasper]

I do recognize there's a middle-ground here, but my sense is that people don't know what they're even advocating for with this. Fast TTK is something you see in other games, that absolutely can and does ruin them. Slow TTK doesn't. What's good about DaD is that it always had a slower style.

Things like one or two-tapping Barbarians and Rogues absolutely thrive in high TTK environments, while parry-heavy Fighters and the like where you actually have to do something other than ambush or press w to earn a victory all suffer. Max MS, rapid-killing characters are not fun. Not at all. And I see your lack of engagement on that simple fact as an admission you just don't see that as fast TTK for some reason.

It genuinely makes me wonder if you have some sort of ulterior motive and just want fast TTK so you can dunk on people with it in some way.

We used to have longer times to kill in patches past, and those were better patches than this one. Way more people are hating on this meta, and this meta is a direct result of fast TTK characters due to the gear changes.

[bold isle]

I always cross-check the text translated by Google Translate, but since I've reached the advanced translation limit of the free version, I can't write complex texts longer than two lines anymore.

[meager jasper]

I see. I hope it's simply a matter of mistranslation then.

[icy knot]

I recommend AI, makes life easier

[bold isle]

Chat AI is already being used for cross-validation. Sorry for talking about something unrelated to the game.

[icy knot]

no problem

We should talk more about what is about to be cooked by SDF

• official tournament
• social gathering hall

Point 5: Balladeer/Troubadours Programs: Its purpose and future plans
Point 4: "unconventional" communication practices between the developers and players
Point 7: Community wanting to help contribute creatively to the games development
**Literally 3 points talking about communication between Devs and Community. **and there is still none.
SDF only talks a bit in twitch chat...
Says he will improve communication: #the-tavern message
Graysun promsed to be more active: #the-tavern message, he is gone again...

nothing is happening

[meager jasper]

Fun fact: The Warframe devs, including the CEO, still live stream every week, answering questions and discussing what they're working on.

Just in case anyone gets it into their head that this... very corporate way of interacting with your audience is somehow mandatory.

[icy knot]

never played, but game seems to have 9/10 steam rating. W DEVS

[meager jasper]

Warframe's incredible. The more you get into it the more it becomes clear it's... more than it seems.

But from a game point of view it's just really well handled. When it was very early in development it was pay to win, but they actively removed that shit.

At one point they even released a paid recolor system for pets, and didn't really realize they made a gambling system. Do you know what they did? They realized someone spent 200 spins on it, and then removed it from the game the next day. Before even getting feedback.

Transparency and good business practices. Has a premium currency that can be fully earned in game, and quickly, if you know what you're doing, but people choose to shower the game in money, even more than a decade later.

[icy knot]

@DEVS we love you! Let community help you!

Let's Make This Game Great Again!

[wicked grove]

If we didn't have terrible locked weapons movesets that would change a lot

[wicked grove]

They DO NOT want communication, then they would have to answer for their bs. Let alone be force to give a straight answer in general.

[icy knot]

Some crazy maniac cooked this suggestion:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/641005/lock-warlock-spell-health-cost-mechanic-behind-some-perk

[meager jasper]

Boo spell charges. Cooldowns.

[limpid tapir]

Please Remove AI from Arena Mode!!!!!!!! Horrible Idea!!!!!!!!!

[full patrol]

Please flip the HR switch back on, on the Test server, please. Thanks.

[full patrol]

I agree, I want instant shoot triple shot arrows on my ranger with no cool down. 🙂

[elfin onyx]

As far as communication goes: we can hope and hope, we can cope and cope we can reason and give suggestions, but at the end of the day, its up to ironmace and the people who work their on how they ultimately communicate with their game.

like you pointed out, many points of the qna have to do with communication, but keep it mind this was one of sdfs answers:

"We are fully aware that there are limitations and issues with our current communication strategies. However, we do not plan to invest excessive resources into improving this right now. We are still a small studio, and must focus on utilizing our limited resources efficiently."

now keep in mind this was last month, and a lot can change in 1 month; But if communication is just something they don't want to invest on, then they don't want to invest in it.

[meager jasper]

Unwillingness is not an excuse for incompetence. They've got over a hundred employees by the way, and it would take, judging by the Warframe devs, 15 minutes of unedited time each week to improve things dramatically. What investment? Into title cards for their stream? Time spent not rejecting their employees ideas or arguing with one another?

[icy knot]

@keen onyx What if you would make HR PVE mode only for Legendary accounts? 💸 📈 💰

• HR PVE mode should have drop-rates similar to normal PVP mode of course.
• Maybe gear there should be lost upon death?
• Maybe BR circle should be removed from it?
• If players are paying for it, it should be open 24/7, but i think it would be better as a 1-2 day event(just like arena)

Its your decision to make, I would suggest to make it free, but 6 million is not going to pay for itself. 😕

[meager jasper]

Hr pve would further dilute the queues and undermine the game.

[full patrol]

I believe it would it would be a great addition and draw many more players, both pvp AND pve. People want options...give them options. Diluting the queues is similar to the NWBA's problem of not getting enough people to watch. PvP is having the same issue, between arena and all the ques, pvp just can't support itself, it needs to offer a full of maps and modes in a PvE mode.

[meager jasper]

I disagree. It's tantamount to paid cheating. It's circumventing the core loop.

[full patrol]

Having a PvE mode is tantamount to paid cheating?? I'm not following.

[bold isle]

The real truth is that I think Ironmace doesn't want to communicate with players because the game sdf wants and the game players want are so different.

[chrome jungle]

just split pve/pvp aspects of the game, use ptr as pve

[meager jasper]

When you're skipping the threat of pvp you're cheating. PvE mode is bad and there's a reason all low level gear up to purple is hyper cheap.

The defense of it is bad video game design.

It shouldnt exist at all.

And hr pve would make it even worse because it would have to have better loot

Making the game accessible should never come at the cost of the core loop, and that's what this does.

Instead of making the core game pallatable they choose to partition people who are burned out by it in a safe place while the rest of the game suffocates from lack of engagement. It's so short sighted and foolish.

[rapid nacelle]

So the game should be only for ppl who already good at similar games? And how exactly somebody playing without pvp breaks your experience? Asking genuinely.

[meager jasper]

That's literally a strawman and a different sentance. I dont hate pancakes because I like waffles. Learn to read.

And pve is not helping anyone

People literally only play pve. And stay there.

[full patrol]

One of the biggest problems, is that people think everyone else...should play the game how THEY play it. But that's not the case. You claim that pve is not helping anyone...but you are incorrect on several levels. Many people enjoy this game for it's art work, and the chance of opening a chest to find some sweet loot. 🙂 They don't need the pvp aspect to complete their lives. So it's possible, and easily done, like many other games, and have a PvP branch and a PvE banch. If you don't like PvE, you don't have to play there. If it's taking away from your canon fodder, that's a pvp problem. But don't tell people that pve is not helping anyone, that's just simply not true. And the day someone kills me in HR and asks if my loot came from PvE side or PvP to decide if they want it or not...then I'll worry about the loot. Prices are down because they turned up the loot a notch and flooded the market.

[strong marsh]

banshee rework https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/639955/rework-banshee

[icy knot]

Banshee has the best boss concept in the entire game. Maybe few attacks last for too long but overall it's amazing boss

The only thing why people don't fight her is only because she doesn't have any good loot

[fossil lintel]

Weapon Mastery is broken, it applies to Native weapons after pulling out a bow, idk if its visual but its perma -10% for the rest of the match... L

[meager jasper]

This is not a matter of taste. It's a matter of trying cater to players who are either not interested in pvpve games or not capable of realizing that they will grow tired of the vapidity of this system after a single season.

Like you've automatically assumed I dont like pve only games even when I brought up warframe? I've got a thousand hours in that too.

But it is a different game with a different goal.

You could just as easily make the same claims with something like wow retail, which has been dying a slow death for years and just announced they plan to make the entire game playable with one button. Totally the same thing. Lets slap a stupid bandaid on the fact most players cant keep a kit or make money, instead of intensifying the insurance systems and making combat less punishing in general.

[full patrol]

I haven't assumed anything, never heard of warframe, neither have anything to do with letting people play how they want. You talk about WoW dying a slow death...well that's a slow death I'd take any day of the week if I'm a dev. lol A game that's still producing after 20+ years. That's many examples of how to make a game the right way. Totally NOT the same thing. Yes, you cater to players...that's the point, that's how you make $$$$. Not much $$$$ to be made when you only want to cater to a small portion of the pie. Look at all the people online, if they all loved pvp so much, they wouldn't have such a hard time finding people to slaughter.

Edit: "It's a matter of trying cater to players who are either not interested in pvpve games or not capable of realizing that they will grow tired of the vapidity of this system after a single season."

Clearly there is a HUGE interest in people wanting to enjoy this game in it's entirety as a PvE option, to say that they are too stupid to be able to enjoy that for any length of time is a pretty sweeping statement. How about...we let people decide what they want to do, that's how it works right? I buy a game, I decide if I like it or not, I play it till I'm bored, then move on to the next??

[maiden stump]

fuckign ironmace, why the fuck same guy can join the same lobby after death?

[granite knot]

Banshee is the example of a good idea with poor execution

[heavy nymph]

i wanna wear crown and it wil be rlly cool if we could

[barren grove]

WILL IS A USELESS STAT

[bold isle]

lol

[heavy nymph]

MAKE US GO W 4 PLAYERS

[shrewd spoke]

PvE nightmare mode would be awesome, up to artefact drops, every monsters are nightmare quality, including bosses.

[barren grove]

buff windlass armor pen

[jolly leaf]

But reduce the base damage? You can already one shot some class, I agree it could work better on PDR class but not if it become even stronger against the class it's already strong against

[barren grove]

dmg stays the same. its already almost as low as crossbow with only a 4 dmg difference but crossbow gets to reload twice as fast WHILE moving

[jolly leaf]

What do you mean 4 damage difference? Base damage of a geay crossbow is 35, it's 42 for a windlass. 45 for legendary crossbow, 52 for windlass

[barren grove]

lemme check real quick on white squire

[jolly leaf]

37 white crossbow, 44 white Windlass

[barren grove]

thats true. i was boofing. apolocheese

buff traps again then i wanna go on my evil arc

unironically i want a that chinese crossbow with a magazine but make it inaccurate

[meager jasper]

No there isn't. Bluntly, you're talking about things you don't understand.

The game is declining in growth. That means people are actively being turned off of the game, month by month.

You're making nothing but appeals to emotion here, while I'm talking about statistics. You're talking out your ass.

I don't care what the game looks like so long as it is good. But this is, in actual software design terms, bad design. That's not some sort of abstract. This is the kind of thing you get taught in design courses.

"I like it" Is not a good excuse to blow smoke up the devs ass while they make bad decisions.

And they are objectively bad decisions, because they're failing to cause the game to grow. Imagine being so full of yourself that you can't realize that a new game mode should have brought in so many more people, but seeing it visibly fall flat on its face, and then still insisting there's a huge market for something! Complete cope. You are not a market.

All while this mode has individually ruined the in-game market for anything purple and below, and sucked even more wind out of the sails of the real game modes. Both within and without, this was terrible from any perspective.

Seriously: Give me any concrete proof what you said was true. Show me the game improving in sales or player counts while they make these decisions and those things being retained. Show me the sweeping endorsements from the public. The huge positive influx of reviews. Because I can very easily give you numbers from steamdb that show the opposite.

I don't know what you people are smoking, genuinely. But adding any sort of grindy, safe mode to a game that's whole premise is based on risk/reward life-or-death decisions is so out of touch that it fundamentally ruins the game. Completely.

And you can mark my words, this game will be dead if they don't start reversing some of this shit.

[jolly leaf]

The PvE mode is a mistake and it was obvious (at least for me, but also for most of the people in this channel who come up with the best suggestion). Since the start i've fighted it and I've predicted most of the issues that it created. IM have no clue of the impact of what adding a new feature or removing an other is doing to their game. They have no vision, no forsight on what they're doing, and they don't listen to people warning them or the feedback we give after they force a feature or remove one we like

[jolly leaf]

Exactly, if their goal was to help new player then the tutorial map they talked about and the "rookie lobby" were good idea as it would have help new player getting to grips with the game but it would have ask for work, testing and time. Once again they choosed the easy solution and released the Adventure mode

[meager jasper]

Yeah. If this exists at all it shouldn't be something you can use past level 20 and under a minimum fame or something like that. Obviously that's game-able but I hope it gets across the point that it should be heavily restricted and not encouraged in the long term. Ideally players absolutely should be thrown into real matches as soon as they've got full access to all their perks.

This isn't being used as a tutorial, it's being used to cushion people's wallets and as a core game feature. And that's totally unnacceptable imo. And I think people will slowly realize it the more bored of it they get.