suggestion-discussion

[coral heron]

I'm not against it. i think if gear is flattened it will incentivize more diversity in builds. like if full str gear aint poppin anymore, maybe they now go for hybrid, or focus things like will for extended ability's

[blissful crane]

Yes, bring back MultiClass, that was so good because it gave so many variety of builds that gave new takes on tactics.

[vestal cloud]

I LOOOOOOOVE THAT A WARLOCK STILL DOES HALF MY HP WITH A CURSE OF PAIN SOOOOO FUN

[shy yacht]

for barb's rage instead of +10% movement speed it should be +10% action speed

[narrow snow]

Please fire SDF

[ashen nymph]

xd

[coral heron]

not at all what im talking about when i say diversity of builds. i am referring to things like slayer fighter, pdr fighter and crystal sword fighter. maybe if the gear is flattened their will be even more ways to play each class the is viable.

multiclassing is a weird kind of trash that turns you into a mage cleric with rondel and dagger mastery, it should exist but in its own weird sub mode.

[coral heron]

they guy who made the game and is its head in all ways?? lol

[crude hill]

monster agro has to be fix

[narrow snow]

They guy who makes decisions based off of feelings. The guy who thinks ttk is too long. The guy who basically stopped us from seeing any data. The guy who thinks ranger should reliably 1v3? That guy? Yeah

[glacial sphinx]

nah sdf is a good guy, and he made a sick game that has entertained me for 2000 hours for 50 bucks so far

[misty iris]

Bards need spears please

[narrow snow]

No he didn't. His team made the game. He didn't single handledly make DaD. If you think hiding the data points they used to share openly is a good thing then you are part of the reason the game is on a downward trend

[austere bramble]

Wow an actually not brain rot suggestion
But until barbs get a real gap closer, rage is as close as we got

[austere bramble]

No u don’t I (a barb) am being out meleed by bards on the hourly already

[coral heron]

the guy who basicaly invented the entire game we play? naaa, thanks bro, ill let the artist cook and wait till hes done to judge.\

[coral heron]

preach brother!

[coral heron]

i want both spears and throwing spears, slings sound fun too

[glacial sphinx]

yeah and he didnt make the decisions you dislike alone either but you're willing to throw him under the bus for it I guess. Either way it's not happening

[ivory quartz]

You mean Nexon made a sick game that has entertained you for 2000 hours

[austere bramble]

Get out
Nexon has made 2 good games:Dave the diver and the finals
I don’t see any extraction games on that list

Add a storage sorting system
Doesn’t have to be good maybe just sort by size or quality

[tired moss]

Ez Druid fix. Give druids a CD on their insta swap perk. Problem solved.

[north violet]

have the devs ever thought about making the trade level maybe 100 make the next wipe more solo self found for the beginning of wipe?

[loud elk]

100 is insane and makes it near impossible for casuals to have more than one trading character

[warm ruin]

Felidian is the skin to earn from quest? I got that from the twitch linking... this is lame. I am truly disapointed

[narrow snow]

Trading should be account wide after you unlock it on one character. Or maybe you still have to pay the gold fee but the level req shouldnt be per character imo

[hollow crystal]

Same, didn't even change the color pattern! Lazy afffffff

[graceful frost]

ist the male version. the twitch drop one is the female version. its not that deep

[civic parcel]

nobody cares lol

[high meadow]

me: have to kill 2 nightmare skeles to get out of spawn. someone on my spawn within 5 seconds, because they didn't have to kill any mobs and spawned right next to me. how can that be possibly fuckin balanced

[drowsy oar]

I do think that the move speed meta needs to be reviewed - I'm fine that rogue needs to hit 2 times for every 1 to a fighter or a barb, but when their move speed is equal for the most part that seems a bit out..

(Moreso fighter especially in -25)

[frigid berry]

@keen onyx With how great gear drops are, stats dont need to be changed anymore, because people can find "bis" easier. new and old players alike can fight and have fun. This loot update is the best. Thank you sdf. @dawn grotto You right. Fire! 🔥

[vestal cloud]

LETS LET PEOPLE BRING IN 5 WINDLASS CROSSBOWS AND THEY CAN SHOOT THEM 5 TIMES AT SOMEONE CONSECUTIVELEY AND A 2 SEC EQUIP TIME IS THE SOLUTION TOO IT WOOOW GENIUS

these devs are fucking delusional

idk why they think nerfing gear is the solution too there issues

[placid crystal]

sugestion, bring back kris for warlock, or any other 1 handed weapon to bring with crystal ball

[languid thorn]

@keen onyx Please someone fix the 5120x1440 32:9 stash menu
make the game UI be like 16:9

[untold inlet]

stop nerfing whats strong and buff whats garbage. good dev direction, much love to this game and happy to see how it has come since the first play tests

[obtuse stream]

Can we please add a setting that allows me to increase my render distance? Most modules I can't even see whether the door on the opposite side is open or closed, and mobs also.

[coral heron]

@keen onyx @full tulip @dawn grotto Great Great Great call on the increased loot. Much love!

[compact marten]

Love the increased loot, thank you devs, this makes me and A lot of other people excited to get good loot while being able to compete with higher end players.

Joining a religion should put a different colored sash on your character to symbolize your alliance with the respective religion. You can gain rewards for killing members of another religion or suffer a penalty for killing someone in your religion. A new event can happen at specific times of the day, where a group of players of each religion must compete with each other in clearing their own section of a larger dungeon of elite and nightmare PvE enemies quicker than the rest. There would be a strong boss at the end where the religion must kill, as well as kill other opposing religions that arrive to the arena. After the boss is defeated, opposing religions that haven't reached the boss room are locked out and only escape with the loot they got, where as the winning team has access to a large treasury to loot, as well as a strong temporary bonus to their religion and its members.

[coral viper]

Amen definitely glad to see more incentive to go deep. ~100hr player here and it gives me the missing incentive to do runs in the mid gear range. previously only <25 or full gear send made game theoretical sense

[blissful crane]

Looks like most of the players aren't playing arena.
They wised up and decided not to waste time dying to hackers and cheese.

[mystic yoke]

The increased loot is a lot. Finding multiple legendaries in a normals run where we didn't even go kill a boss was kind of boggling

It feels like another heavy-handed data gathering method and will probably revert before the end of the season

[vestal dagger]

Suggestion to get rid of extra matchmaking pools. Add a selection of buffs that depending on your group size you get to choose X amount from when you ready up. For example, +10 Speed Buff, +3 true Magic Damage Buff, +15 Health Buff, +3 True Phys Damage Buff. Trio? Pick one each, Duo? Pick two each, Solo? Have them all or three of them. Maybe each buff has an aura when you move at normal speed so people can visually see what kind of buffs you chose and if you have multiple.

[naive thicket]

put arena gear set in squire please. would be great

[rain storm]

Suggestion: Add 2 Buffs in game to make looting and clearing rooms essential to PVP and getting better loot in endgame/future chests

LOOT BUFF:
Starting loot buff points: 0
Every 100 gearscore = bonus 1.1x loot buf points multiplier

Every normal mob = 1 point
every chest = 1.5 points
every special chest = 3 points
every elite mob = 2.5 points
every nightmare mob = 3 points
every normal mini boss = 3 points
every elite mini boss = 3.5 points
every nightmare mini boss 3.75

Buff stats for example: for every 1 point +3 luck / new stat for looting buff system

PVP BUFF: "Dungeon Crawler" Buff
Starting pvp buff = 0 FOR ALL GEAR SCORE

Every normal mob = 1 point
every chest = 1.5 points
every special chest = 3 points
every elite mob = 2.5 points
every nightmare mob = 3 points
every normal mini boss = 3 points
every elite mini boss = 3.5 points
every nightmare mini boss 3.75

Buff stats for example: for every 10 points +3 max hp / armor rating / anything else

[austere bramble]

Could be a good idea

[rain storm]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/588761/add-2-buffs-in-game-to-make-looting-and-clearing-rooms-essential-to-pvp-and-gett

ty 🙂 thumb up so it might get attention 🙂

[grim creek]

@rain storm This would just destroy new players or even anyone with less than idk 200-500 hours depending on their ability to learn. As someone with 1.7k hours I know the map like the back of my hand and can clear mobs without even thinking. By the time I run across someone who can’t clear like me they are just gonna get stat/gear checked even harder

[rain storm]

if pve is essential for playing, you need to learn pve

harder game = better game 🙂 thats what makes dad so good

[grim creek]

@rain storm I don’t disagree there, feels ultra bad right now like no reward for playing. The endgame which was nabbing good gear got blown to bits -.-

[rain storm]

yeah :\

[proud ferry]

Probably already said, but gobbo gambling needs a buff now with new drop rates

[gray crest]

gobbo loot should get nerfed

[mint crow]

have you played since the loot buff, im getting legendaries off of elite skeles

[gray crest]

I have

they are gonna nerf loot drops most likely and y can't hide that gobo is op bf they buffed loot drops

[proud ferry]

If the loot drops stay this way then gobbo needs to have its chances upped, if they dial it back a little then that’s different

[tardy vector]

move speed in this game is cringe AF

[vestal cloud]

here we are back too curse of pains doing half my fing hp wow so fun

[shy yacht]

HAWK TUAH EASTER EGG CONCEPT FOR DARK AND DARKER:
the druid chicken form has a tiny percent chance to say like "bawk tuah" (chicken version of hawk tuah, which stays close to the bird theme of the meme)

[uneven rain]

literally the dumbest idea ive seen in here lol. Congratulations i guess

[shy yacht]

what do you even mean

[honest lance]

why are there so many suggestions about anticheat and in my 1k hours i have never run into a cheater

[civic parcel]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/588819/heavily-increase-all-key-drop-chance-to-1025

[graceful beacon]

depends on region

[vestal cloud]

dear ironmace if you arent going too delete traps please add a mechanic where you can atleast in some way counter being instantly killed in one

[hasty arch]

remove panther health percentage reduction, actually dumb to have, get one shot by anything and cant have fun

[rugged summit]

Druid needs to have some for of action speed penalty for swithcing forms too many times. It's actually insane.

[vestal cloud]

fighters shouldnt be able to have 330 move speed in full plate and still 2 shot you

[gilded stag]

add more food sellables for ap/coin food and fooder

[wicked laurel]

Give longsword more impact power

[twilit anvil]

"just look down"

[wintry loom]

change animation of magic staff, it is almost impossible to block with a shield, this makes the weapon too strong in melee for the thing that casters/magicians are supposed to use

literally every weapon is much easier to block, daggers and even a felling axe are easy compared to this damn stick

[crude hill]

The right solution/path when the game was only tríos was making solos and duos more fun inside the trio's environment. Never adding solo and duo queue.

[graceful frost]

you have most likely ran into one but didn't know it. a lot of espers are hard to tell if they are. same with some speed hacks

there isnt many blatant cheaters like aimbotters or anything like that.

[wicked laurel]

nerf warlock

[drowsy oar]

Yeah, it hurts my brain that as a rogue with nothing in hands and a plate with only -6 movspd (that's the only negative in my base kit) that a fighter can catch up to me in -25 EVERY TIME...

[jolly leaf]

I think they're in a more acceptable state now than they used too but still the main issue about warlock is still untouched imo and it's a question of time before a patch make them op again. Imo they need to do something like that to Warlock https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/564808/rework-of-warlocks-healing-mechanic

[wicked laurel]

im with this

[jolly leaf]

Upvote the suggestions

[tulip hill]

upvoted
honestly surprised this wasn't the rout they went when they were dealing with the original Torture Mastery
and warlock spell cost is already 100% recoverable so the change is even simpler than your suggestion implies

[wicked laurel]

life drain could still be good

[jolly leaf]

Yes, and I made this suggestion way before they tweak warlock recently

[austere bramble]

can we get multiple squire slots

[austere bramble]

add a cancel button to potion drinking like for bandages

[naive thicket]

Multiple squire sets. Arena gear set. Dungeon gear set? Would be nice

[outer niche]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/588872/arenasquire-tweaks

guys upvote pls ^

[coral heron]

warlocks need a second main hand weapon, don't care which, maybe morning star, or make a new one, idk.

[full kiln]

They don't lol

[full kiln]

It hurts my brain that a Rouge can do a quarter of my hp in one attack in -25 every time it's called a skill fighters have one for catching people you have one for damage and hiding get over it

[rugged summit]

I always felt like warlock should be able to use viking sword.

[rugged summit]

Bows really shouldn't slow on hit anymore. It's terrible with survival bow. The thing is an SMG and it's broken.

[vestal cloud]

with sprint yes

[drowsy oar]

Yeah, but to get my move speed to a chance of running away I'm sacrificing all armor. The majority of the player kills in every -25 I'm in are "Longsword" because of this. Not saying you're wrong entirely, but keep in mind that every hit a rogue is taking from a fighter is 33-40% of a rogue's health also

[grim bane]

Buff Dark Matter Tunic, doesn't make sense that a crafted Item that requires a Boss Item have the same Max Health as a Uncommon rarity (when it's a Epic Rarity) /w just 2 Knowledge. Frankly one of the more expensive useless items in the game.

[jolly leaf]

Maybe it's a mistake, you can try to #report-a-bug

[tardy vector]

REMOVE MOVESPEED, REMOVE MAP ROTATIONS. GIVE OLD CLASSES NEW SHIT, CHANGE THE FUCKING RANGED META IN THIS GAME

[full kiln]

Sounds pretty fair to me otherwise your hitting me over and over and I can never catch you every min I have 1 chance to catch you and Corner you all my gear takes more move speed away then yours

[graceful frost]

No its not, it was 7 hp 3
Knowledhe but was nerfed before release

[barren hawk]

how about letting those of us that asked for thumbs down for a red name still have the option to report people...

[crude hill]

I hope they add 4 players requirement for wyvern again, i think it was the best method to encourage co-op gameplay. I think what really failed was the lack of information.

Most players were casuals, and most casuals don't kill bosses. Also many players didn't know that this requirement even existed.

The reason behind the removal of this mechanic was a mix of noob players dying to wyvern easly + the difficulty to find those players. Leading to a 20% chances of killing wyvern every 20 games.

Here starts my suggestion.

2 items based in 2 levels of wealth:

1 - Banner of the Wyvern: A 2 handed banner weapon, taller than the player with a waving wyvern flag, purely decorative with pretty basic attacks and stats, but with the ability to nail it to the ground and pick it back. This can only be purchased by merchants and is not tradeable. This items should have a price only worth for players with a little bit of experience, not necessarily pros. With this item you can show all players your intention to kill the beast.

2 - Crystal of gathering (The call of the brave): A consumable item with the shape of crystal that resonates making an intermittent, directional and pleasant noise throughout the dungeon for a few seconds. This item is the amplified version of the banner not only showing your intention to kill the beast to those who make visual contact, but to the whole lobby. If noobs find you, they have more chances to survive. This item must be very expensive not just to avoid abusing of it but also to prove that the ones holding it are probably very good players.

Those are strong enough tools to solve the main problems of Wyvern original goal. But i want to add 2 more things:

1 - The use of this items should be clear for players, by an item description visible to everyone or any other method.

2 - I recommend the additions of global missions like in helldivers 2, creating a reason, worth of the actual mission's cosmetic reward, to hunt the beast as a community.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/588949/wyvern-original-goal-solution

[worn lava]

I don't mean to be harsh, but I'm shocked at how stupid. Sometimes the dev's choices are when it comes to at least the matching system right now in the arena mode nobody who has zero gear should be matching with people who have all gear on every slot I've been playing Delta Force recently and I got so used to how even and fair they have their gear system and now that I come back to this game for one game I can see why I haven't hopped on in a while The unfairity Is by far the worst in dark and darker compared to all the games I've played recently

[halcyon flame]

Arena is experimental so if u want fair gs matchmaking I would play normals

[royal plinth]

imagine thinking delta force is balanced lmfao

[jolly leaf]

About Move speed (not THE solution but a cool idea) -> https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/580732/how-to-break-the-ranged-meta

About Map Rotation (don't think we can or should remove map rotation completely but) -> https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/576260/improvement-to-the-new-matchmaking-system-and-map-rotation

And about the Range meta I totally agree that most class should not have acces to that many range weapon. Imo Bard should have only like hand crossbow, knive and fran. Figther should need the perk to use any crossbow and bow. And I liked the idea of the Rogue perk than allow him to use buffed hand crossbow (kinda like Spear for ranger)

[wintry loom]

Fighter skill the "spell reflection" and "perfect block" should be combined into one skill. Otherwise, spell reflection remains very situational and unused, although it is generally cool mechanic.

[austere bramble]

only problem with this is since teaming is yk illegal wouldnt rlly work

[faint onyx]

Can we nerf Antimagic and Iron Will? Seriously 25% magic damage reduction for a perk slot is insane. Warlock and barb take 1 perk and wizard is just locked out. Cant fight them. Imagine if wizard had a perk that reducted physical damage by 25%.... Everyone would explode their heads

[shy yacht]

wizard should have a perk that reduced phys dmg by 25%

[gray crest]

true dmg exist unless y playing squire but that's on y

[static turret]

Its a good point tho

Remove any tank perks, also remove plate

[shy yacht]

just let wizard wear plate

[wicked stone]

plate is countered by magic, tank perks are a dmg tradeoff

[gray crest]

about the dmg trade off that depends on the class

bc a barb with or without iron will will still 2 3 tap y depending on the class

[hard fjord]

Tbh plate doesn’t even feel like plate armor

[austere bramble]

nah give it to barbs

[oblique pewter]

Felidian in final quest reward... WTF

[placid kiln]

I think that's a good point

Do you guys think Windlass Crossbow would be broken on Fighter? It's my favorite ranged weapon and it doesn't see a lot of use.

[jolly leaf]

Anymore ranged weapon would be broken on fighter. Imo he shouldn't even have the crossbow, maybe only the hand crossbow and fran. Then if he want more he have to use Weapon mastery. And imo that's true for every other class, there is too many class with ranged weapon, bard and fighter should only have hand crossbow, rogue should have to use a perk that give him a more powerful hand crossbow (like spear for ranger)

[placid kiln]

That actually sounds reasonable. That way, running Weapon Mastery wouldn't feel like such a waste for a person like me.

[static turret]

Keep coping

[austere bramble]

add a damage report so i can see how i just got instantly eviscerated

[placid kiln]

Actually, I would love if we could toggle a humanoid icon that can tell us which part of our body just got hit. That would be a big help for people who block attacks.

[prisma shadow]

Developers should stop slacking and add Sling weapons to Dark and Darker

[gray crest]

of all the prob in this game one of them is ndef not the lack of sling weapons right now

[prisma shadow]

Lack of content is making me not play that’s for sure

[jolly leaf]

Lack of content? What would you like?

[prisma shadow]

Sling weapons

Now, what is a sling? A sling is a projectile weapon typically used to throw objects such as rocks or lead bullets at high velocities. They have been used in warfare since the Neolithic era and have been used to deadly effect against armies of the classical era and beyond.

Slings are underrepresented in contemporary media and rarely discussed. Few games implement Slings, but a prominent one is Chivalry: Medieval Warfare. In this game, slings are medium-damage weapons capable of launching two types of projectiles: rocks and lead sling bullets, which are made for armored targets.

In Dark and Darker, slings could be implemented not as a singular weapon but as two weapons:

Balearic Slings:

These are your stereotypical slings. They deal low-medium damage and are fast to reload. They essentially act as the counterparts to the Crossbow/Recurve Bow. Because of the simplicity of these slings, they are quite nimble, allowing the user a high degree of mobility. They have the same range as a Staff Sling but cannot throw anything heavier than what the staff sling throws.

Staff Slings:

These are slings attached to a staff. They deal medium-high damage due to the ability to throw heavier projectiles at much greater distances than the Balearic slings. They act as the counterparts to the Windlass Crossbow/Longbow. They have the same range as a Balearic sling but are slower to reload. Because of the size of their projectile, they could serve to deal with more blunt force trauma.

In game:

In game, the Balearic Sling and Staff Sling both work as skirmisher weapons. The Balearic Sling, specifically, chips away at their health until an opportunity arises to finish your opponent with melee. Both slings have different purposes and use different types of ammunition. The Balearic Sling uses Lead-Bullets, with slight armor penetration, while the Staff Sling uses large rocks, with an emphasis on blunt force.

Balearic Sling Game Design:

The Balearic Sling is meant to be the fastest and possibly the one with the fastest DPS. With slight armor penetration thanks to the lead bullets (anything around 5%), the Balearic Sling is meant to chip away damage, a completely different role than the Staff Sling, which specializes in slowing down the target. The Balearic Sling would have a projectile velocity of 35 m/s 2:35 But would have less damage than a Survival Bow at around 18-19 Damage. The Balearic Sling would have a much ‘slow effect’ than the bows, but not by much.

Staff Sling Game Design:

The Staff Sling is meant to be the heavy hitter of the slinger class. While Staff Sling offers no armor penetration due to the blunt projectiles, it offers more damage. The Staff Sling is meant to slow opponents down, either while facing your opponent or if they are running away. The Staff Sling will have projectiles traveling at a similar speed to the Balearic Slinger 30-35 m/s, but would have more damage than a survival bow at around 24-25 Damage. The Staff Sling would feel much slower than the Balearic Sling and Survival Bow but would offer a ‘slow effect’ almost on par with the Windlass Crossbow. This can be adjusted based on player thoughts and balance.

The addition of Slinger weapons could bring variety to the ranger class, which lacks any significant content in the form of weaponry or perks (looking at you, Campfire Mastery.) The addition of the slinger weapons could add variety to the dungeon and make justice for the slinger weapons, which are so underrated in media such as movies and video games.

Oh, and don’t forget Javelins and War Darts. Also add less boring Perks and Skills while you’re at it.

[austere bramble]

yes

[jolly leaf]

The concept is really cool, but I don't think the game need new ranged weapon, or allow class to use more/new ranged weapon. Lots of people complain about the "Range meta" and it as been like that since a long time now. I don't think it's that bad but range shouldn't be buffed in any way, probably even nerfed. Like that -> #suggestion-discussion message

[prisma shadow]

I just want ranger variety

[pale fjord]

Which final quest, who is the merchant

[rugged summit]

You really should not be able to get positive PDR without a chest piece on (Barb excluded). It encourages wearing as little armour as possible.

Shirtless Rogues still being able to have 10-15% PDR is pure BS

Seriously though, with how important Movespeed is in this game, I don't know why the devs don't make nakedness more punishing. Going without Shirt, Legs, or Helmet should make you just as vulnerable as Rat, or Chicken form is for Druid. Getting hit without legs, chest, or helmet should cause bleeding effects (Barb, and certain Races should have immunity to certain effects.)

[sullen hull]

Zombie Skin: +2 Will, -2 Knowledge

[north violet]

When are they going to make shirtless and armorless people get more punishment for literally being naked this kiting has to be fixed and people who strip down mid fight or go in the dungeon with no shirt, pants, or helmet (unless they have agility). They should really make it to where stripping any armor should be like putting it on and same with weapons. I’m assuming whenever the backpack system comes this will fix it but can they at least make it to where people with no armor are severely punished why do these people take 6-7 plus hits to kill and then they have more MS than you.

[pale fjord]

There is no need to bring rogues into this, they’ve suffered enough

[jolly leaf]

What could be done is, if you don't wear a chest piece you take 20%* (I don't know it's an exemple) more damage from hit on the chest. No helmet, you take even more damage from headshot etc etc

That way it's more punishing but not completely unfair for those who chose to go gearless

[north violet]

I think any body part not covered in armor should register as a critical hit or a headshot if they have to make like that the more we know limbs do less damage but the more they are exposed the easier it be able to cut through if they don’t have any armor to provide that buffer not all classes should benefit going no shirt or pants besides maybe barbarian

[sinful lava]

Add item category to Mob loot that splits into 3 categories that is a simple identifier. Cash loot, only sells for gold, Quest loot, used in any quest, Craftable loot, items used in crafting.

Items can be marked as more than one of these identifiers.

[rugged summit]

Lol Rogue can never be good until they change the way MS works, and figure out what to do with the class.

[jolly leaf]

That -> https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/563627/rogue-rework-suggestion-master-of-poisons they should do that about Rogue. Dev are aware that a rework of Rogue is needed but It seems SDF want stick to his own vision. Anyway if you like the suggestions pls upvote it

[rugged summit]

Something that I always thought would make more sense would be that getting hit while not wearing legs or chest should make you bleed. I understand people want to zoom around, but it really does encourage wearing as little gear as you can get away with.

[pale fjord]

ive been saying this exact same thing for a long time but noooo SDF wants rogues to climb on walls

[jolly leaf]

That's a really cool idea

[pale fjord]

runs through a push without pants on, you suffer from minor bleeding from scrapping your leg against the bush

[austere bramble]

Don’t know what lobbies u guys been playing in but I’d rather not get 2 tapped by a rogue with a knife

[pale fjord]

? rogues cant do that? they have to hit someone atleast 8 times if ungeared and 5 if geared, for someone playing the fighter class and barb you sure are complaining about 1-2 tapping while doing it yourself

[austere bramble]

<125 gs I regularly get 3 tapped by rogues as a barb which is worse than a barb 1-2 tapping u because have u seen the swing rate on this sht
Also doorframes nerf the entire barb kit

[pale fjord]

you must not be wearing any armor, if your wearing the lizard skin without chestplated of course you will get 3 tapped by a BIS rogue, i recon you didnt build hp either, your complaints are due to a major skill issue alongside not wearing any damn armor

[jolly leaf]

You can't get 3 tap as a barb unless you have no armor at all, and even that way

[austere bramble]

Wearing full green without a chest piece no skin like 20% pdr
160 hp
Either the rogues I’m fighting against r specifically going mad dmg with nothing else or they busted

[pale fjord]

unless the stars lined up you aint getting 3 tapped that way by a full BIS rogue, it is statistically impossible

[austere bramble]

Keeps on happening to me
Like yesterday I lost half my health from one rogue hand crossbow

[tall mountain]

those spots should take extra damage if there's no armor there. people are right to say equip/dequiping gear should take a bit of time as well since people just need to shed their clothy or full plate skin just togain on people.
slots should be filled; not left empty unless otherwise given a boon to do so.

[rugged summit]

Rogues aren't out here 2 tapping. It's not happening. Believe I have ZERO respect for Rogue, but they aren't OP right now. Annoying, and complete Anti-Fun. But not OP

[austere bramble]

Maybe I’m just severely skill issued, maybe I’m just encountering hackers, maybe it’s the same guy idk

[rugged summit]

The fact the dropping gear mid-fight is still a thing is criminal. It's a beena problme for a very long time. Wearing no Armour should almost NEVER be worth it.

[tiny wigeon]

Yeah maybe with the rage negative effect and the reckless attack negative effect and a triple headshot but still, not sure if even that’s enough to kill in 3 hits

[austere bramble]

Wait reckless atk has a negative?

[jolly leaf]

Exactly, and it wouldn't happen often

[keen scaffold]

rogues have been 3-4 tapping everything in sight for a very long time and noone says anything about it.

[tall mountain]

no armor or gear runs should effectively be their own dungeon deployment lobbies of finding gear; ANY gear to survive.

[tiny wigeon]

I thought it did, maybe I’m tripping

[rugged summit]

Like i'm sure there's at leat one dude out there who has figured out how to build an insane DPS rogue. But it's not really common for them to be able to drop Barbs in 2-3 hits.

[austere bramble]

Maybe I’m tripping idk

[jolly leaf]

Reckless attack is a flat -75 or 80 armor until you hit

[austere bramble]

Ok it’s my skill issue then

[jolly leaf]

https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Barbarian#Skills-0 -85 flat

[rugged summit]

So other than shirtless Barbs, wearing no gear should be the absolute last thing you ever want to do. But right now you see Wizzards, Rogues, Warlocks, rangers, Clerics... pretty much any class. Find a way to get your desired stats, while wearing as little gear as possible. The -MS on gear is considered a greater liability than the stat benefit they provide. Now i understand that at higher GS lobbies, this stops being true, but it's still a problem.

[austere bramble]

Rogues aren’t busted I’m just trash

[rugged summit]

It happens dude.

[tall mountain]

it's fine; the druid who tried to gank me earlier felt like trash after he rat shifted with a tick of poison on him.

[austere bramble]

“News just in:Barbarian main admits he’s bad at the game.Tune in at 6 for more details.”

[jolly leaf]

Well Barb does have 5 on knowledge xD

[austere bramble]

But we usually have the will not to admit it
I blame druids and warlocks

[rugged summit]

Lol I always have the hardest time fighting Barbs though.

[jolly leaf]

Barb is one of Rogue counter, that's normal

[austere bramble]

Usually feels the other way round to me but as we have established already, I am not the pinnacle of barbarian skill

[jolly leaf]

If you play Zwei, double axe or bardiche then Rogue shouldn't be an issues. If he's close enough to hit you with a dagger then he's dead

[austere bramble]

Maul user has left the chat

[jolly leaf]

You'r looking for trouble xD

[tiny wigeon]

Haaaaa

[austere bramble]

Unless it’s a rondel pdr fighter
Longsword fighters in the other hand

[rugged summit]

Not as Rogue, as warlock/Wizard. Haven't really played much of the other classes except for Cleric. I'm giving Ranger a proper try now though.

[jolly leaf]

Well Barb's also good against magical class, especially with the Iron Will perk

[rugged summit]

Yeah Rogues, and Barbs either insta kill Wizzy, or I melt them. There's no in between.

as warlock, I only really do well against Barb if im running my Platelock build.

[jolly leaf]

Reminder that there is awesome suggestions (with a good amount of upvote) in the trending part of the suggestions website! Here some of them :

• Idea of content to improve the gameplay loop https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/554235/dark-and-darkers-content-problem

• Way to improve the Matchmaking system and Map rotation https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/576260/improvement-to-the-new-matchmaking-system-and-map-rotation

Have a look and upvote what you like

[slow shore]

Can we make it so we dont die on spawn to a black gob archer and bola holy fuck

[clever lion]

can we make HR without min loot again

thx 70% of the player base

fun is gone literaly

[vestal cloud]

you should not beable too have 10000000 throwing axes in your inventory making barb essentially a ranged class

[faint onyx]

Randomised module positions and module type should be a very high priority. The immediate rush of sweats from the nearest spawn point is ass in HR

[vestal cloud]

like come the fuck on devs wtf

[clever lion]

wait untill they add bola to barb then

[prisma shadow]

Add slings to dark and Darker

Don't add Bola

Its underwhelming. Add slings instead.

[vestal cloud]

make it so you caNT REMOVE ALL YUOR PLATE ARMOR AND HAVE THE SAME MOVESPEED AS SOMEONE WITHOUT PLATE

[jolly leaf]

I don't really see the point of randomised module location. If it's still the same module the we know then people still know how to clear it or how to walk through it without getting hit to keep rushing you. Imo a better thing would be randomized mob spawn (with a bit of logic, you can't have a room full of yeti or monster of an other map of course), as it'll force new situation in every module. People wouldn't be able to simply dodge every mob of the module or kill only one or two and rush through the whole map.

[vestal cloud]

yea but you wouldnt be able too run into just any room youd be more warry like if your running from someone and your low and all the sudden a nightmare goblin mage is in your face your fucked

[jolly leaf]

That's the point yes, so you can't run through the whole map in 2 sec because you know each module perfectly and know how to dodge each mob of every module

[jolly leaf]

It'll create new situation, new interaction every run

[austere bramble]

Deals less damage than ranger or fighter or bard or rogue or any caster at range

[untold wyvern]

Right now there's no reward to area other than it being fun as hell but what if the gear that says "crafted by xxx" was the reward for winning maybe not all the gear but a piece or 2 depending on how bad you beat them. The gear that says found by you would still never be lost. I think this would make the bis you find in the game feel even better

[grave stirrup]

youre right, they should have bolaslingers instead

try dodging? everytime i look in here you're always crying lol

[frail hazel]

Worst take ever spoken. Just give tokens like for character leveling for every 3 wins.

[tidal lake]

Druid needs some reworking. It's crazy that yall really didn't use the test server to test anything. You have it, why ignore it. You tried 3 potential nerfs at the same time without seeing the effect that any would have alone. We all know that high end druid damage needed a nerf for bear, instead you gutted everything including chicken. You nerfed action speed to where simply walking straight back is enough to dodge bear right click while swinging a weapon. You can't even do that with most mobs. And if we do land it. It does a whole wopping 30-40 damage if it lands with any pdr. All of our forms die in 1-2 hits, outside bear which is so slow and cannot get through doors and is easy to kill. @keen onyx plays druid and knows it has counters since we have 0 mdr and fighters are currently running crystal sword will shenanigans to melt everything. I've gotten 3 hits on a bard and done maybe 30%of their hp. Most of the complaints were two fold. 1. The other classes need more love, they need to be able to do more that wkey+lmb harder. Druid and bard felt strong because we had more actions to do in a minute than click mouse over and over. Rather than remedy that we're boiling everyone down to play as bland and boring as fighter playstyle. There's a problem when we're better off using a spear than our animal forms in most gs brackets. The second issue was to be remedied as soon as yall bothered to give us more animals.

We have 5 and 5 slots. We get 1 more good one and either we give up rat and lose that ability to hide. we give up chicken or panther, and lose our dash. We give up bear and lose that damage and hp, or give up human and lose our ability to reset and heal. The problem would have solved itself just based on the limit of slots we have. Our scaling is so bad that we HAVE to go high gear to even practice our playstyle in animal forms which means we're throwing gold away every other run. It's only worse now that we cannot win most trades

We start with awful physical stats. But we're expected to play just like every other melee combatant but worse, sure we can run away real good. But they have time to reset while we're doing that. And in a boxing match 7 times outta 10 we're going down. I love this game. I've played druid through every nerf, this is the first one that makes it so bad that I have no desire to play just because of how bad it is in game, as well as the lack of foresight affecting trust in the developers. The other classes need love and to be more interesting, but for some reason you guys are actively making every class play worse over time instead of buffing the others to their level.

How many patches have just been "we fucked up last patch, this one will fix it" over and over. If you used the test server we wouldn't be here and the game would be further along. Patch after patch has just been scraping the random crap that you threw at the wall off to throw more and see what sticks.

[wicked stone]

factual statements are definitely coping

[pine shoal]

the rubber banding its crazy on the troll, is it just me?

[short sorrel]

New idea I had today to maybe help address the problem I see with high roller. That problem being that if you don't run kits that are somewhat min/maxxed, you have a decent chance of getting rundown by the crystal sword fighter and ranger in bis.

The idea would be to add a new item label called traded and high roller runs would then be limited to lets say 4-5 traded items on your kit, and the rest would need to be items that you looted or handled yourself (bought from the merchant). This would still allow the rich folks to buy their artifacts for runs but instead of then surrounding it with BIS, they'd have to make some harder choices on what traded items to bring

It would also still allow people to bring in BIS if they looted/crafted it all themselves, but it would make the stakes higher because you cant just turn around and rekit in bis with the tradepost

[gray crest]

this means I can buy cap rings and pendant and the rest I need to craft nice

[short sorrel]

Or you can buy two really nice weapons and a nice ring/necklace, but you would have to source your own gear. Or, you could choose really good gear but would need to source your own weapons/accessories

[gray crest]

it doeant work bc certain classes can craft better gear than others

[short sorrel]

Yes but it would need to be crafted by you, so if you craft stuff with shit rolls, there isn't a way to get around that

[jolly leaf]

Same thing that I was saying yesterday, the issues is not Barb with lot of Fran axe. The issues is that they're "forced" to play that way because other class have too much range option. If fighter, bard couldn't use anything except hand crossbow and rogue had too use a perk to use hand crossbow then range fight wouldn't be that dominant

[gray crest]

y can't craft a spellbook

[short sorrel]

if some spends 10k to get the best rolls on brave hunters, then fair play to them. better hope they don't lose it

[gray crest]

it would jantar make mob drops more expensive and items less expensive basically

and y would be waiting for the traders to reset

[short sorrel]

That's basically where we are at with the recent loot changes anyway. Items are less expensive unless they have bis

[gray crest]

but its still annoying to wait for the resets

y die and now y wait 30 mins to play hr again bc merchant hasn't reset

[short sorrel]

you go into a reg game to get more loot and then go into HR

that's sort of the intended game loop i think. This would make it more rewarding for people because they wouldnt immediately be stomped by bissers

[gray crest]

still expressman loot inst minted

[short sorrel]

That would need to be fixed obv

[gray crest]

they need to add more crafts for that to be cool

and make so if my warlock finds gear I can use it on my other classes

[jolly leaf]

I agree with @gray crest , your idea is not bad at all @short sorrel but it's too hard to implement / not very adapted to how the game work right now. It'll probably have many negative unpredicted side effect and would ask to change a lot of other things to make it work asking for a lot of time and ressource to develop it

[gray crest]

probably a good idea in the future but we missing alot of shit right now for it

bc I like to use kits that I find but I need to run atleast a few games to have a functional kit

[grave stirrup]

as a druid main i can perch up high and block a barb's franciscas with my spear and then he's SOL, idk why hes crying about someone bringing equipment and using already limited inventory space up to play the game. Lol everytime i tab over to this channel the same guy's crying about something different

[jolly leaf]

Well you seems to be a skilled player, good for you. But I understand what he's complaining about, and even for Barb it's probably not very fun to be "forced" to bring a full inventory of fran axe to have a chance to do anything / catch anyone

[grave stirrup]

fighters can bring a sht ton of arrows in a fraction of the space, and be faster than barbs. And have more PDR, and a shield, the list goes on

[grave stirrup]

he said you shouldnt be able to have 100000 throwing axes in your inventory "making barb essentially a ranged class" what does that make fighter then? Lol he just likes to cry

barbs are just making up for the lack of range the only way they can

guy probably got rocked by a barb's francisca because he doesnt know how to dodge or become better at the game

[jolly leaf]

Sure, I totally agree with you. That's what I was saying in my answer, Barb is forced to play that way because other "melee" class have way more ranged option than him

[grave stirrup]

[jolly leaf]

Yes probably, but he raise a real issues imo. The solution is just not what he suggested, that's part of a bigger issues that is ranged/move speed meta

[grave stirrup]

yea i can see that too

[jolly leaf]

What's the thing you want the most or the issues that should be fix in priority for you?

[gray crest]

optimization

[grave stirrup]

tough question, i enjoy the game because ive seen it grow since 2022.. it'll never be perfect and pvp balance is an impossible dream. I'd like solo/duo queues for arena, and a ranked arena system.. but in the mean time i will enjoy what we have

[jolly leaf]

Well that's partially (mainly?) out of their hand. It's really expansive to rent better server and even big game like Rainbow 6 etc have shitty server

[grave stirrup]

maybe more expansive maps, like island maps or something
with more players in each session

guilds, guild wars, duels, guild halls where people can log in their char and practice fighting eachother

[jolly leaf]

Yeah, more queue and more map variation with more/less player would be cool. But that require a bigger playerbase imo

[grave stirrup]

playerbase is quite large , its just diluted across the world

[jolly leaf]

Most of that is planned, we don't know when but that's thing they talked about

[grave stirrup]

compared to the torrent version of the game last year , has grown considerably.. steam publishing it again reinvigorated it for sure

[grave stirrup]

yeah man im excited. and like i said pvp balance is impossible but i hope they make some changes before adding new classes in

[gray crest]

fps wise too

and an option for render distance would be also nice

qol features

[jolly leaf]

Well I agree and disagree. The player base is way better than before the steam release for sure but with Normal, Hr, -24, <125, +125, Arena, Solo, duo, trio, people waiting to play the map they want, all that split it too much/ they could do stuff to optimize matchmaking (Like this https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/576260/improvement-to-the-new-matchmaking-system-and-map-rotation)

[jolly leaf]

QoL for sure, they're getting there, a bit slowly but it's getting better. And FPS wise well that's always very hard to do as it depend a lot of every player PC config. Me for exemple I never got any FPS, stutter or crash etc. And I have a good PC not the greatest

[gray crest]

I stutter alot if my game is in fullscreen

since the last 2 updates

or how every update undoes the hitscan fix

[jolly leaf]

For me the 2 top thing I would like in the game is more thing to do in the dungeon to improve/add variation to the gameplay loop like in this suggestion https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/554235/dark-and-darkers-content-problem
And Better matchmaking so you actually get matched with people near your gearscore and don't get stomp by people in legendary BIS when you go in HR with a blue stuff. And that hard to do because it depend a lot of the playerbase of your region at the hours/day you play but I think thing could be done to improve it like the suggestion I send earlier https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/576260/improvement-to-the-new-matchmaking-system-and-map-rotation
(Pls upvote them if you like them )

[grave stirrup]

try editing your gfx card settings and capping the fps at 60, helped me a lot

[jolly leaf]

Yep most of the time the issues can be solve by tweaking thing on your side

[gray crest]

sucks playing at 60fps

[jolly leaf]

60 fps or Stutter? That's a choice to make

[gray crest]

the the window mode fixed it for me

[jolly leaf]

You can have a look at that and try the thing i've proposed, it might help #suggestion-discussion message

[gray crest]

bordeless

[grave stirrup]

yeah i use window borderless as well
easy alt tabbing

[grave stirrup]

wouldnt it be nice if there were mega servers that could support a decent connection throughout the world so we would only need like 2-3 regions haha, would solve that issue instantly

[jolly leaf]

That would be awesome but also way too expensive for a company like Ironmace xD

[grave stirrup]

i play with a guy that lives in romania, he was free 2 play for months and months and i had no idea.. he was always on a lot too, before i finally asked him "why do you only play 1 char?"
then i bought him the game the next day and he plays it more than i do now 😄 i like helping those who dont ask for it

this is his outlet just like it is ours, escape the RL for a bit ya know

his wife was pissed at me tho lmao cuz he spends more time with me than he does with her now LOL

[jolly leaf]

Regional pricing would be a really good thing too

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/470645/regional-prcie

[grave stirrup]

you cant gift the game on steam either, you can only send gift card and they have to redeem it, then buy redstone shards

[jolly leaf]

I think that might happen when they'll untangled the Steam situation, hopefully (Regional pricing and gifting)

[grave stirrup]

yeah for sure

with xmas coming up they better get it situated asap .. i know theyre finished with the US lawsuit but the one in korea i think is still going. playerbase would surge if they get it sorted out

[lunar narwhal]

Ayyo barb should get a lunge skill. Every 20-25 seconds he can leap ahead a decent bit. (Double the distance of a ranger back step but going forwards)

[jolly leaf]

Like a dash? Because I think a jump (that allow him to clim thing) would be too strong. But the dash could be cool

[tulip hill]

Barbarians general balance comes from needing to get into melee range, a leap would be very powerful on them
At the very least I don't think it could be done mid swing like Back Step can, but would probably need some other limitations
One thing I think would be nice for a Barbarian charge skill would be the ability to open or break doors to give Barb an alternative to Crush

[jolly leaf]

Imo it could be like a dash/charge, and if you hit someone it push him a bit and slow him like Fighter's Shield bash do

So you close up the distance between him and you but don't just put you in front of the ennemy, ready to slap him

Maybe you should only be able to charge without weapon in hand (or maybe only double handed weapon)

[tulip hill]

well if the target is 8 meters away and you use an 8 meter dash, it doesn't matter that you normally go past them, the charge is ending next to them anyways

Mobility on Barbarian is stupid powerful, its why rage was the most used skill for the longest time and is probably still up there

[jolly leaf]

Yes but if you push the target away a bit and have to be bare hand to dash then it's not just free mobility

but I agree, Barb is meant to be powerful and tanky but slow so if you give him mobility or move speed it's broken

[tulip hill]

oh, here's an idea
what if the ability had a bit of a startup
so you go forward faster than your normal speed, but your character charges up for a moment
in total, you cover about the same distance in the same amount of time, but in a delayed burst
Gives the enemy a chance to react to the incoming charge and doesn't let the Barbarian use it to outrun people

[jolly leaf]

I think it have to be faster than just running forward but yeah a warning and a little delay could be nice. Like a specific scream before the dash so the barb stop, scream and dash

[austere bramble]

barbarian shield charge with a pavise

[tulip hill]

🤷 It would still be useful even if it didn't speed you up in a race, but that all depends on its additional effects
Being able to phase through enemies, knockback, how much damage and slow it applies, door breaking :), all that stuff would affect how far and fast it should go

[tulip hill]

if it was specifically a shield charge, I know exactly what my Multiclass build would be
Shield Bash, Shield Charge, Crush, Pavise

[austere bramble]

i dont get why barbs dont get the massive block of wood

[tulip hill]

Barbs didn't even have the round shield for the longest time and only have it now because of the Viking

[wintry loom]

Add explosive bottle to squire and woodsman, that would be better to counter druids

Add a pickaxe to squire, that would be better to counter habit of forgetting it in 99% of players

Campfire restore all exhaustible skills, please? field ration, smoke bombs etc

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1233979330795933736/1297980810858594365/image.png?ex=6717e654&is=671694d4&hm=fd36da6d38f62baa929395ad3a7eadb3e41fc5ac0faf3db6e9a1388a6379e263&

[nova vale]

Cheaters are plaguing this game are you staff sleeping on it? @dawn grotto @keen onyx @hidden sierra the amount of aimbot, ESP and blatant god knows what cheating is fucking destroying the game, do you guys want this to be tarkov?

I just got chased by a aimbot pestilance ranger that was hitting headshots using quickshot from across the room, and other chinese players following around across all servers, its damn insane

[jolly leaf]

What are they supposed to do against cheater when Riot or Ubisoft can't handle it?

[wintry loom]

just curious, oceania region?

[nova vale]

I have no idea dude, im not a game dev.. but having my fun ruined all day along by chinese is getting old

[nova vale]

actually chinese are coming to south america and US East and ravaging here

[jolly leaf]

Unfortunately that's the same in every fucking game, people are just toxic as fuck. The best they can do imo would be a system like Counter strike where player can review game of potential cheater and judge them. And Ironmace said they're going to do something like that

[nova vale]

south america server is getting absolutely destroyed by rampant chinese hackers

like its not even worth spending my gold on items when im going to get chased at the start of the game for the items im using

[jolly leaf]

Play in EU I don't feel like we have that much cheater

[wintry loom]

it sounds like "just look down", a lot depends on ping

[jolly leaf]

Sure but there is no real solution against cheater, so we do what we can to avoid them

[nova vale]

cheating is getting out of control in this game

[jolly leaf]

I've played Rainbow 6 recently and it's the same there, same for Apex. Cheating is becoming easier and easier so there more and more people doing it

[viral moat]

Sugestion: allow to queue for the map or auto requeue, without the need to manual requeue when you can`t find a team.

[jolly leaf]

That's a good QoL idea

[tough fjord]

WidMan12
789LAOMA
BigcousinYY
qfDy9
Four people beat two of us, illegally teamed up, and put on an act, which unfortunately I didn't turn on the video game
in us western servers

[austere bramble]

Was it in hr cuz if it wasn’t it’s not illegal and if it is then put it in reports

[jolly leaf]

If you didn't record it then they won't get banned unfortunately. But if you did -> #in-game-reports

[honest lance]

1k hours on us east never seen a cheater

[austere bramble]

make a damage report after you die so i can see how i got eviscerated

[jolly leaf]

That could be cool, you can make a suggestion about that on the website https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/

[austere bramble]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487511/after-match-damage-report turns out theres already one

[jolly leaf]

Indeed and I already upvoted it xD Forgot about this one

[austere bramble]

@tiny wigeon can u lecture this guy one why pinging devs doesnt help at all

[austere bramble]

i would prefer if its more akin to something like the valorant damage breakdown but even a simple one would be good

[nova vale]

if you are poor they wont go after you, but try bringing a named item

[honest lance]

I have?

[tiny wigeon]

Surely the devs will instantly listen to what His Highness has to say about it!
I just can’t man… I honestly can’t even comprehend people that tag devs like they are your homies and you showing them a funny meme

[rigid horizon]

I can pretty much guarantee that the devs have their pings turned off due to people like them

[prisma shadow]

HAWK TUAH EASTER EGG CONCEPT FOR DARK AND DARKER:
the druid chicken form has a tiny percent chance to say like "bawk tuah" (chicken version of hawk tuah, which stays close to the bird theme of the meme)

[golden sable]

Suggestion: use your onboarded devs so we can tell that you tripled your head count because currently we can’t tell with the speed and girth of patches 👍🏽

[tiny wigeon]

Exactly

[austere bramble]

I be willing to bet Elon musks net worth on it

[tiny wigeon]

Did you see his excited hops at the rally ? Ahahah looked adorable , like a lil kid

[austere bramble]

Lol

[tiny wigeon]

I’ve been telling you guys not to directly ping devs, but seems I was wrong.
@abstract stirrup taught me the ways.

You can ping devs as long as it’s constructive
@jolly leaf good news bro

[abstract stirrup]

and Mindful*

[tiny wigeon]

Kind hard to be constructive without being mindful wouldn’t you say?

[abstract stirrup]

i suppose, but it has to be said 😄

[jolly leaf]

Nice, maybe i'll give it a shot

@abstract stirrup do you kno who is the best to ping in this kind of situation? SDF, Graysun, Terrence

[tiny wigeon]

This man has some of the best ideas I’ve read. Don’t agree with all of them, but most of them, and he has done a lot of work to get his suggestions upvoted

[jolly leaf]

[abstract stirrup]

Graysun would be the most likely one to see your suggestions , but at the same time, all of them are quite busy all the time

[jolly leaf]

Yeah I guess so. Thx for your answer

[tiny wigeon]

So , he says, ping them all for a higher chance to be seen 🙂

[jolly leaf]

I don't think that what he meant xD (even tho it would be the best to do in fact)

[tiny wigeon]

It’s between the lines Dilo!
Listen, you use brain to make good changes and suggestion, I’ll use mine to read social cues :3

[jolly leaf]

Oh one last question, even if it's a suggestion should I post/ping in the #the-tavern? As far as I know I never saw Graysun etc speak or answer in this channel

[abstract stirrup]

i believe graysun will see it, regardless of which chat he is pinged in 🙂

[jolly leaf]

[dapper gull]

Nerf wizard splash dmg. Most wizards I fight just shoot the floor next to me and it does half-quarter of my hp. That isn’t even fair LMAO. There’s no other class in the game that can miss their ability but also hit a target at the same time.

[glacial sphinx]

Getting hit by an AoE effect is not a miss

[empty crypt]

This is the dumbest idea I’ve ever seen. Incorporate it immediately.

[grave stirrup]

bet you're stacking PDR

it's called splash damage for a reason. Literally because it has a splash effect, stack more MR instead of PDR

[empty crypt]

Run full MDR fighter

[grave stirrup]

ppl with 60% PDR crying about spell damage is just funny

[dapper gull]

I’m not lol

[dapper gull]

It ok imagine I hit the floor next to but I have explosive arrows and it still damages you. That’s bs

[grave stirrup]

its a fireball what u expect bro ?
not a firebolt =P

[austere bramble]

Add a perk for barbs so they can deal more dmg with fists and can’t use any other weapons or maybe for a monk class if it ever gets added

[jolly leaf]

Monk is planned, next class after Sorcerer

[austere bramble]

i just wanna make a one punch build lol

[tidal lake]

People keep pushing for nerfs instead of giving the other classes more apm and it's sad, it's like for some the ideal game is just everyone being bland fighters

[vestal cloud]

can we please for love of god nerf low gear barbarian how is it fair that you can gear up and you still get 1 too 2 shot by a barb with literally nothing on but bootsd and a zweihander

[jolly leaf]

Because we don't want to get back to the time where every class could 2 tap every other class and the game was "Whose going to one shot the ennemy first?". That wasn't very fun and remove every kind of strategy and tactics. Also people seemed really relieved when they increased TTK and nerf gear a few month ago

[stoic glen]

If thats the case why do rogues still get two tapped by every class?

[jolly leaf]

Because Rogue start with 9 strengh and 10 vigor, also he have very low armor making it a very squishy class (with wizard) but trust me, it was worst before

[tidal lake]

You did catch sdf saying he wants lower ttk. Have you considered you want the game to be what it's not meant to be?

[jolly leaf]

Yes, and it's seems more complicated than that. It look like the vision of the other dev on the team have evolved but not his vision. And we've seen game with a good base concept get hurt by people with "a vision". I don't say his vision is not good but it's not what most of the player want and what some dev of the team want. And i'm being especially frustrated about that want they give us tool (the suggestion website) that allow player to give feedback and idea for new feature, improvement or balancing all that to not use them at all and say to us "I have my personal vision of the game i'll do what I want"

[tidal lake]

I'm not gonna disagree there. I'm still upset the test server isn't used for testing patches before a bunch of shit gets thrown at the wall to see what sticks and we've had multiple patches in a row just undoing what the last one did. Which is just a waste of time that could have been used in progress

[jolly leaf]

Exactly, and based on the long message of SDF in the past week in #📢announcements he is the reason of all this undoing, because he have a different vision than player and other dev. And I respect that but I don't think it's a good thing to undo all the stuff done within the past year and before that in the test phase base on the vision of one singular person, even if it's one of the main dev

[rugged heath]

can we make pots break with 1 hit with any weapon? super annoying having to hit is twice with a dagger

[forest mauve]

Ranger trap idea: if you move to far away from the placed traps 30m-40m it breaks

[jolly leaf]

Then how is it a trap? For the slow and damage, like caltrop?

[strange badger]

Zweihander attacks slowly and its almost-horizontal swings makes it easy to play against. Turn away, crouch, and look down and if he's going for a headshot then he misses, and if he does hit there's a pretty small hitbox that isn't a leg shot when striking your backside. Turn away, jump, crouch, and look down, and he's guaranteed a leg shot if he's compensating for the fact that he expects you to be crouched and looking down.

If a barb 2-shots you from full health with nothing but a zweihander then he landed headshots on you (which they're almost always going for with first hit) and this "tech" is almost guaranteed to cause the first hit to miss and follow-up hits to deal 50% damage, as opposed to the 140ish% damage from a headshot supposing you have headshot damage reduction.

Of course this isn't completely true for more experienced players who have a lot more control of their swing patterns, but it is quite relevant for 90% of the player base, even moreso relevant for the population of the player base going in with apparently nothing but a zweihander against geared up players. Even against those experienced players you'll probably take 3 or 4 hits as opposed to 2 with such movements in most cases, and it's easy enough to disengage from big, slow, weapons after they've swung twice which can potentially change the outcome of a fight significantly.

[somber hearth]

buff campfires, they are slow enough 🙂 ❤️

[coral heron]

ranked needs an elo structure in it, but doing what they did a while back with GS, only letting it activate in regions with large enough active pools of players.

with an elo structure ppl would fight against ppl of their own skill, ppl who love to fight would end up in lobbies together while ppl who don't or are bad at combat would be in lobbies they could handle lol.

watching SkinnyPete ask to fight is both too funny and sad

[forest mauve]

it still works exactly like a trap... it just means a ranger cant plant shit ton of traps and leave

[coral heron]

i think a better option is to make them not able to be set in proxy of each other, and limit the amount of active traps that can be out at once

[forest mauve]

all 3 should happen they are still op

[jolly leaf]

Oh ok you mean the trap break if the ranger go to far from it

[tidal lake]

You can by simple stacking the right stat. It's a choice you're actively ignoring

[austere bramble]

Because barbarian has little to no pdr and has slow as hell swings

[somber hearth]

I know.

[austere bramble]

I think if people want to nerf/buff something e.g. a class they should play at least 2 hours of whatever they are complaining about and see if it actually needs changes

[jolly leaf]

True

[austere bramble]

Give lyre some form of attack
It’s the only instrument without one

[ripe pollen]

add a bard song that breaks traps in a area like unchained hormany but a bit bigger

[somber hearth]

Can we get instruments back from the goblin merchant? Please please please please @dawn grotto

[warm canyon]

Could Partymaker be turned into an AOE forced dance effect TY

[waxen berry]

Have the goblin merchant, instead of spawning loot, take the loot from players who died and did not retrieve items and have the same random system but without spawning items.

[shy yacht]

========== IRONMACE PLEASE READ ==========

HAWK TUAH EASTER EGG CONCEPT FOR DARK AND DARKER:

the druid chicken form has a tiny percent chance to say like "bawk tuah" (chicken version of hawk tuah, which stays close to the bird theme of the meme)

[austere bramble]

How about u hawk tuah yourself into 50 ranger traps

[prisma shadow]

========== IRONMACE PLEASE READ ==========

HAWK TUAH EASTER EGG CONCEPT FOR DARK AND DARKER:

the druid chicken form has a tiny percent chance to say like "bawk tuah" (chicken version of hawk tuah, which stays close to the bird theme of the meme)

[naive thicket]

Arena gear set into squire please 🙏

[tidal lake]

Pasting a reply from general regarding another fighter crying that "druid, bard, warlock is unfair"

You want every class to play like fighter. You aren't advocating for balance, you're advocating for homogenous gameplay. You don't want them to hit hard. But also don't want them to play different. So your ideal pitch would be they have to fight at a disadvantage to feel better about yourself. No need to improve your skill if you can just tie everyone's hands behind their back.

I will keep saying the same thing in here. If you die. There's a chance you were outplayed, and likely would have been with any build. A will fighter with high pdr, a wizard who kited you, a ms barb that two tapped you. Ect.

If you're saying the class by design is just broken and insurmountable, replicate it. Make a druid, build a kit over 124 (get out of Timmy lobbies) and go catch 2-3 bodies in a round. If the class is so inherently broken that it can't be beaten by design, YOU should be able to pick it up and do the same.

I encourage all of the people crying about any class to pick it up and play it to level 20, you will immediately find it's weaknesses as you die over and over, which you can then turn around and use that info while fighting them.

If you cannot have multiple characters because you're free2play. You really shouldn't discuss balance issues for a game you're not even really supporting enough to pay as much as two McDonald's meals for it's development.

If your problem is "bard, warlock, druid ect can do more than i can and that's not fair " I'd agree and support giving every class more tools and APM to actually pull off more than walking forward and clicking your mouse while shaking it back and forth, but its low iq when the only creative solution you have is to nerf everything and make it bad rather than buffing classes to be more interesting. Half of you will cry for justice, when the only crime is "i can't just spam attacks and kill you like a mob"

[grim bane]

Agreed, people seriously need to adapt to changes to the game and have a mindset of what can be done better in these situations. If you gonna just whine every single time you lose… maybe this game is not for you 😅

[gentle mica]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtwULqJcLDY
If any mod or IM employee is on, watch that video
stop ignoring cheaters and stop ignoring people who call for your help
that is my suggestion

[tidal lake]

Same goes with following streamers, these are pros that made it their job, they will be playing in high gs with other people like them.

They will watch their guy go on a run and go kill 7 players with no deaths in a row, but if they die ONE time the mob will be here ready to riot and take down the class that hurt their poor pookie bear @grim bane

[jolly leaf]

Use #in-game-reports to report people, especially if you have recorded it

[gentle mica]

just watch the video dude
I'm just spreading the awareness I'm not here to do anyone's job

[jolly leaf]

My bad I though it was a clip of someone cheating (But anyway it's always good to report a cheater if you recorded it)

[gentle mica]

you literally just assumed it was something then got on here to tell me off. classic
blocked

[jolly leaf]

Yes? Many people don't know that you can report people with the channel I linked, I just wanted to help you. I was wrong and apologized no need to act that way

[weary imp]

Wizard class: add a slow passive spell regen like 10% of if you were sitting at all time, feels bad to run out of spells in a teamfight and have to sit while you team fights 2v3
Druid: remove the silence from panther, already OP, the druid doesn't need a guaranteed win vs casters

[digital geyser]

quivers when plsssss

[gentle mica]

bro there is a skill called meditate

when are you guys going to give warlock summons

[marble root]

Disable in-game whispers, display whispers only in lobby. Players providing info akin to cheating via whispers is game breaking imo e.g. someone dies in HR, spectates/inspects players, then whispers information to other players.

[jolly leaf]

You can try to open a ticket about that, I think/hope they're already aware of that as I've seen several people talking about that. Hopefully it'll be fixed with the next hotfix that should be released today or tomorrow

[restive ravine]

Nerf approach makes the game more boring long term imo, instead of taking away 2-3 classes fun, add some fun to the other classes, but more buff based approach inevitably leads to powercreep. I know its not the same thing but for work i do audio engineering and people often say something like the mix is well balanced. No, it is not, if it was balanced, aka. everything was around the same level, balanced with each other, it would be just a boring mix most of the time, you need targeted specific unbalances to create a more fun and engaging thing in the end. The way combat in this game is, and classes are each their own thing, that behave rather differently from each other, inherintly the game can not achieve balance without making everything the same.

[tidal lake]

Some nerfs are fine, nobody disagreed that high gs bear needed a nerf. People have issues when it's throwing a bunch of random.shit at a wall and seeing what sticks and then the next 4 patches undoing that. This ignoring the test server to test patches is a strange choice, and by only nerfing buffing 1-2 classes at a time, they don't exist in a vacuum, balancing against variables that will change in a week isn't a good investment. They need to finalize what they want the classes to do, and then adjust the numbers, classes don't even have their full toolkit, they waste alot of dev time running in circles. Sure they should try to have a similar ttk for every class with their good and bad matchups respectively but we can't pretend even though we love the game that it's being handled in the best way. Lemme link a video that expresses some of my concerns better than I'm able to articulate it

[tidal lake]

https://youtu.be/dptdS6xa0kI?si=JPKhFsCMDfEBQAhA

Ignore the sensationalizing title

[restive ravine]

I wasn't disagreeing with your points if you took it as that, i was just adding on a bit, i believe your points are valid, and you hit the main point i see people fail to understand, which is, classes can't be balanced because they are basically playing entirely different games than you are, small number changes are generally not what's going to solve the issues here, classes need more work. Also test server players should start with like infinite gold, and all chars at lvl 15, with a healthy picking of good equipment to create kits with, then they might actually get people testing on test servers

[restive ravine]

I saw this already but ty ^^

[tidal lake]

I agree whole heartedly with you, don't mean to sound confrontational if i did. And yeah if we're not testing patches on the server at least that would be a great use of the space. Testing builds, and enemy fights

[weary imp]

Yes and while u meditate it's 2v3 that was my point

[grim bane]

Are the devs even utilizing the testing servers? Feel like they’re doing “testing” on their own environment. They need to implement something to encourage the “Hold the Line” Bundle users to actually spend time helping them test things out, before live patch

[austere bramble]

Everyone who wants to nerf/buff smthing should play at least 2 hours of it
Disagree about the f2p but cuz I’m f2p but already sunk 100 hours in so I don’t think that ppl who r broke just have inherently no valuable opinion but other than that agreed

[tidal lake]

I may be a bit harsh. They absolutely have value as every player who keeps the game going does. It is more so about the super vocal people who have knee jerk demands, and entitled demands, yet didn't bother to contribute to the games finance. Paying these devs ect. We don't have ads, very little paid cosmetics, which is a good thing, but this game doesn't have alot of ways to generate revenue

May have been*

[austere bramble]

Fair
Also shield charge for barbs with pavise
Or let them throw it overhead like a drum
Why can’t barbs use the block of wood

[limber elbow]

legendary gear 30% PDR + 30% MDR rogue got 1 curse + 1 ball die from blue gear warlock , with spellbook out still 315 move speed from warlock curse like instal , 1 curse drain 70%HP ye good game to dead game

[tidal lake]

Shield charge or an attacking leap for barb and fighter as a gap closer (sprint is very strong though already basically turning any fighter into juggernaut)

Short range teleport like maybe a tracer rewind or misty step for wizard as gap opener

Maybe limited grappling hook for rogue and or ranger to reposition

Cleric a holy protection over shield that doesn't really change movement speed, but helps you survive to get into or out of melee similar to a phantomize in practice but only lasts while moving forward

Move speed is king an that's not great. But if classes had more WAYS to move we would get more interesting fights

[austere bramble]

I don’t like in theory or practice things that just make u invincible
(I strongly dislike phantomize)

[tidal lake]

Yeah that's why I figured any turning or hitting an object would shut it off, I'm not the biggest fan either, but still wanted it to be thematic.

[austere bramble]

Fair

[tidal lake]

They could also get a shield charge as well

[tidal lake]

Someone in general mentioned parry actually being timing based instead of just holding the button, was a good suggestion tbh for the amount of damage parry does

[shy yacht]

it should deal 3x damage if you time it right

[tidal lake]

2.5 wouldn't be bad, I wouldn't even really care about 3x if you time it right. You got it

[austere bramble]

As in 2.5x the current parry dmg or the base dmg of the weapon

Cuz either way it does feel a bit high since most classes only have somewhere around 3x base longsword dmg health wise

[keen grail]

Why does Dungeon Recoveries has such a low timer? it's like you die, you want to go sleep, you can't unless you're ok to lose your gear....
There is no added value to having a low timer on the Dungeon Recovery items 😦

literally wasting 40mins for no added value

[austere bramble]

It’s cuz express man and goblin wait till the entire dungeon is finished so if u die in ruins u have to wait till the inferno is empty

[jolly leaf]

No I think he's speaking of the time you have to buy back the stuff when it's available at the Goblin service

[austere bramble]

Oh yeah they should extend that

[austere bramble]

Crafts for bardiche and mauls please

[jolly leaf]

Craft for every weapon/armors

[wanton valley]

Improvement to rogue abilities allowing for more diverse builds, smoke pot also clears debuffs, caltrops create blood footprints similar to ranger track for a temporary time after stepping on them, sap ability that temporarily stuns enemy if damaged by meele weapon for .5 seconds, blink ability to dash forward 5 meters, twin blades ( when using two daggers in primary and offhand gain action speed if damaging with both simultaneously deal an extra amount of physical damage or bleed, some of these seem like they could be op but i think if balanced properly could great a style more suited for pvp instead of landmine or mosquito metas that people really hate what about a dual dagger dps that has high burst but is also very squishy and doesnt have stealth interested in what others think

[wanton valley]

ability to craft gear at all tears with random rolls would be cool give iron ore more of a use as well as other junk like grave essence could be used to craft greens, fluids for blues, ect

Templar class (hybrid of crystal sword fighter and cleric) has holy spells and buffs used to counter undead and warlock magic but limited in items it can use maybe add a crystal dagger and crystal arming sword making them a slow tanky magic user

belt slots add belts as gear with different perks such as more utility slots, extra inv space, lock and trap kits built in but less utility slots

[jolly leaf]

Imo there's no need to give Iron more craft but they need to remove some item from the shop. For me you shouldn't be able to buy Throwing Knive, Fran axe, Hunting Trap or maybe one of each per shop rotation and all that should be a bit more hard to drop in the dungeon. That would give iron more utility

[jolly leaf]

They planned to add Backpack, my guess is that it'll allow thing like that

[wanton valley]

true i think crafting and farming is lowkey my favorite part of the game i just like the idea of introducing the ability to craft more

[jolly leaf]

A Paladin class is also planned, not in the near futur as it'll come after Sorcerer and Monk. It should be some hybrid between fighter and cleric

[wanton valley]

didnt know that

now for the controversial take on rogue everyone hates rogue but nobody seems to agree on how to fix it

or if it even needs fixing

[jolly leaf]

Well I have the perfect suggestions for that https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/563627/rogue-rework-suggestion-master-of-poisons

I've seen your message and there is somme really cool idea you should post a comment on this suggestions or make your own suggestions

[wanton valley]

no way i already read that

[jolly leaf]

Many people think Rogue needs a rework. Dev and SDF himself admit it, but he want to stick to how rogue is now and keep tweaking it unfortunately

[wanton valley]

i really like it already upvoted

[jolly leaf]

[jolly leaf]

I really think you should write a comment with you skill/perk idea on this suggestions, or make your own suggestions but unfortunately most of the time they stay at 1-2 vote, a comment on the one with many upvote might give your idea more visibility

[pale fjord]

the devs dont even check that site it seems

[hidden hemlock]

There has to be a better solution for post fight whispering, I feel like people just rat you out to everyone else in the lobby as soon as you kill them

[brave karma]

Remove lich normal bolt attack splash damage

[weary creek]

Devs refusing to gut/nerf/remove Ranger traps is a symptom of their severe stupidity and makes me happy that this game is dying as the devs deserve nothing more than to have a dead game on their hands.

[cold gull]

Normal mode needs a different label for the gearscore lobbies new players absolutely get raw clapped by 600+ gearscore players every single lobby has one it's just a misnomer people do not go into highroller as decked out as they are in "normal" 80% of people in highroller have explosive bottles to increase gearscore to get in and normal mode has beyond stacked epic god mode gearlords checking noobs over and over because they haven't even told players about the difference between 125 or 124 gearscore anywhere no tip no explanations just get effed in the face as hard and as fast as you can by 2000+ hour players wearing their BIS spawn rushing you 10 minutes before a blue will even open for you to run to. Welcome to "normals"

[austere bramble]

For the sap u mean as an activated ability not perk right

[austere bramble]

Squire does actually tell u

[tiny wigeon]

I suggest finding the discord moderators that are activelly simping out for certain people and banning/timing people out just cause their "queen" told them to.
Kind makes you look like amateurs even more then you already are.

[limber elbow]

game is dead

[jolly leaf]

That's a thing?

[jolly leaf]

Hopefully they'll fix that in the next hotfix. I've seen lots of people talk about that issues so I think they're aware about it

[jolly leaf]

That exactly what I was warning about when they allowed gear in Normal after the steam release (To please F2P player). Imo Normal was very good when it was White gear max and they should go back to that. Making HR two bracket 0 - 124 / 125+ (ideally 3 bracket with something like 125 - 300 / 300+) . That reduce the number of queue improving the quality of matchmaking and duration of queuing

[wintry loom]

Day 1 asking to do at least some of this:

Combine the "perfect block" and "spell reflection" skills in one, remove animation of using the skill.

Make consumable skills recoverable with campfires: "field Ration", "smoke Pot", "caltrops" etc.

Improve pickpocket, make resourcefulness increase chance of stealing multiple items.

@dawn grotto @keen onyx

[jolly leaf]

Don't do that, you'll get timed out/ban. You can't send the same copy/paste message every day and worst ping dev in it. I did something similar (without the ping) and got a warning about that

[wintry loom]

Damn, I'm frustrated

[jolly leaf]

So am I

[jolly leaf]

You have the right to do it once if you ping like that. If the message is constructive with suggestion like you did

[wintry loom]

Thanks for the warning. If you want, you can vote for these ideas https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/?order=new&filter=allexceptdone&tag=

[jolly leaf]

[wintry loom]

♥️

[chilly gate]

please fix fps optimization,most of the places you can notice lights decreases your fps because of the poor optimization i have more thanenough pc requirements for the game but still stutters in some places

[worn notch]

Goblin merchant needs a nerf. i dont' need to get 100% of my items back. Suggestion is to have that for the first 2 weeks of wipe. then 75% for the first month of wipe. 50% from then on

[jolly leaf]

That could be worth to try

[abstract bone]

i like the full gear return if no one loots you. theres to many stupid bugs you can die too and lose your gear to pve that its not even funny. + your items are never 100% safe. If a single person finds your body may aswell kiss ur kit goodbye. as most make goblin merchant far more expensive for legendary and unique gear. only have to pay 40-100g isn't anything.

[coral heron]

here here!

im guessing that sdf is gonna change gear to be basically its blue variant in terms of base stat/stats. what do you guys think is gonna happen to gear?

[jolly leaf]

Honestly I don't know, too many thing could be done and SDF didn't really give any clue. And the fact they increased loot drop make me think they're not gonna change too much the rarity aspect of item, would be weird to let us have more Legendary item if they become "useless" one week later

[coral heron]

he did say something of what he was doing i thought, could be wrong. from what i remember he said he wanted to flatten gear, and he said he would augment the base stats not the number of random affect rolls. so legendarys wouldnt be worthless, they would just have a smaller gap on the base stats between them and the lower level varriants.

"In the first version of this plan, I will attempt to remove GBMM (Gear-Based Matchmaking) by introducing a version where random modifiers remain (Random modifiers may be slightly adjusted), but the gear gap is significantly reduced. Of course, players with very little playtime will need to be protected until they can adapt, so a pool of 25 or less may remain temporarily until a new player pool can be properly implemented." SDF

this is why my guess is something to the affect that the base stat will be normalized across all levels of said gear (like all loose trousers having 3 agi), but the damage or armor rating would vary by rarity, and as he said, random modifiers stay.

[jolly leaf]

Ok ok, and do you think that'll be enough of a change? Or is it even good/worth to try?

[tidal lake]

Blacklist the word "nerf" so rather than just mob tears people have to actually articulate their complaints and offer suggestions on improvement instead of spamming

"Nerf X"

[austere bramble]

good idea

[ripe yoke]

Should make doors take as long to close as they do to open. The door meta is a joke

[tawny ivy]

Damn that’s a good point, why does the door take longer to open than close 😂 same logic as a barbarian suddenly can’t bring a white potion to his lips anymore 🙄

[rugged summit]

The issue is just how useless resourcefulness actually is. It has a niche use, but you get punished for building into it.

[tidal lake]

We didn't use to as chicken 😦 then they took it away from us even though hitting our shots were hard af

[jolly leaf]

That depend if you combo it with Buff duration, for some class that have powerfull "buff type" skill like ranger or Rogue's Hide it get be pretty strong, skill last longer with reduced cooldown. In bonus you have better potion as they last longer thx to buff duration

[tidal lake]

Also bard

[jolly leaf]

I think Ressourcefulness is underestimated. And it's also kit that are pretty cheap

[rugged summit]

1 - MS needs to be brought down in it's importance. The game currently rewards wearing as little armour as possible. Lightfoot boots are literally the best footwear in the game for this reason.

2 - Primitive stats should be king. building + Phys DMG% should not be better than building STR

3 - Ranged either needs to more accessible to other classes, and less accessible to non-ranged based classes.

4 - Not wearing armour should be punished SEVERELY. No pants, no chest? you should be 1 tap.

[halcyon flame]

Fun fact strength gives you phys power

[rugged summit]

Yes with diminishing returns. Phys power is better than STR after you hit 20-25 STR.

[tidal lake]

Disagree with 3. If you want to play a ranged class, do it, this "i wanna do everything and kill everyone" power fantasy is bad for game. Less homogenization is better.

[jolly leaf]

1 - yes pls

2 - It's kinda already true

3 - Imo other class than ranger shouldn't have more than Fran, Knive and Hand crossbow

4 -A cool idea I had about that is that if you don't wear a chestpiece and take a hit in the chest then the headshot multiplier apply or maybe not 1.5x but 1.2x damage. same for other part, no glove = more damage if hand/arm hit

[tidal lake]

Your version of 3 i agree with

[rugged summit]

I meant it either needs to be taken away from everyone except ranged classes (made much more exclusive) or made much more open. this middle ground we're in is terrible.

[jolly leaf]

That wrong, Strengh start to give less PPB after 50 strengh so most of the time it's better to stack strengh https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Stats#Strength

[ripe yoke]

The let it make it so you open and close them faster but make them both take the same amount of time base

[tidal lake]

Ah. Then my mistake, I misunderstood.

Let him cook.

Hand crossbow and the survival bow should be the highest for bard and rogue which in fantasy settings often use bows as well

[jolly leaf]

Even surv bow is too much for bard, or you need a perk to use it. Like spear for ranger. Same goes for Rogue, he should have back the perk that allow him to use hand crossbow (with a little buff)

[rugged summit]

Oh wow you're right actually. Phys Power goes up to 3 on stat lines though, whereas you can only get max +2 str on a stat line.

[rugged summit]

Survival bow is just broken as a weapon. Especially on Bard. It's literally an SMG. Every Bard walks around with the MP5 in their pocket. it's not even a joke.

[jolly leaf]

True but Strengh give a bit of HP and I like that

[rugged summit]

5 - Remove + True Damage entirely, except through perks and skills. you should not be able to build phantom damage just from your gear. + add damage okay, but true damage hell no

[jolly leaf]

Why not; at least to try

[rugged summit]

Because True damage ignores resistance. You should be worried about how you build YOUR character, no whether the other player has built their stats. I shouldn't be having to guess whether this guy has +True built, I should be more concerned about whether i have been building appropriate resistances.

You wanna add damage, sure. +add is fine, because it has to go through MY resistances before it gets applied to me.

True damage has been a problem for a long time. They've been trying really hard not to remove it, but it's needs to go.

Fuck magic resistance, im just going to build +True Magic damage, because the other guy probably did too.

[coral heron]

I think it will be. If the pdr dif from common to epic full sets goes from 35-60 to 40-50, or basically having your additional static attributes cut in almost half from legendary but raised for common, it would out more focous on modifiers and allow for more skill expression like SDF seems to want. It would be a heck of a lot more like the alphas and the release season.

[coral heron]

Maybe they add true armor and make it so it cuts true damage to 50% lol. In all seriousness though, I get where you are coming from. I think some is nessarry, but they have far too much. Maybe limit it to like hands and only on the amulets that alredy have it as a static attribute. Basically make it so you can only get like 5 max.

[jolly leaf]

Wouldn't it also increase TTK for Epic+ gear? Not that i'm against it, that would be great

[coral heron]

I do beleive so, which is also somthing he wanted.

Not increase, I misread. Lol

[jolly leaf]

Well he wanted to reduce TTK of low end gear I don't remember hearing him say that he wnated longer TTK for High end gear

[coral heron]

I honestly think it would increase ttk for lower geared ppl but lower it for higher geared ppl

[rugged summit]

Like i said limiting TRUE DMG to Perks, and skills would probably be the best middle ground, and maybe leaving thing slike Phoenix, and Frost ammy as a little extra

[jolly leaf]

Yeah my bad I meant that

[coral heron]

Yea, I misread lol. I was saying it would decrease trk on somone with all epic, and it wound increase on somone in lower stuff. My miscommunication lol.

[coral heron]

Ahh lol. Yea, over all I think it would be closer to what he wants, but idk, I'm just spitballing. Seeing how good I can predict lmao

[jolly leaf]

Well your suggestion would be really cool. Hopefully we'll get something like that. But I must admit that I'm afraid for the future based on what SDF have said for now

The announcement feel really unclear for me, you can interpret them in something and it's opposite

[coral heron]

that's really fair, and I too feel trepidation

my best models for what he wants are the earliest iterations of the game, but then he also talks about giving more none pvp type options, so I really don't know lmao

[blissful crane]

You have to realize, that optimization isn't a priority when you are trying to push out product that works, after that comes constant updates and fixes.
Optimization comes along eventually, but it's not a priority.
It took many years before Eve-Online saw major optimizations...then it really worked well.!

[rugged summit]

Anyone else find that Flanged Mace, and Morningstar have REALLy misleading hitboxes? Every other weapon, when i get by, it's clear that it hit me. I feel like every time i get hit with a mace, and or morningstar, I watched it miss me... but i still got hit.

[jolly leaf]

Same about war hammer but opposite of flanged and morning star. War hammer seems to have so much more ranged that it actually have. Every mace are fucked

[rugged summit]

I feel like all 3 Cleric 1 handers are like this. Staves and Maul don't have this issue. But Mace, Morning star, and i guess hammer, but i dont think i ever see anyone actually use that weapon.

[jolly leaf]

You forgot the mighty Club

[rugged summit]

hmmm that's true. again i rarely see it get used tho.

But yeah, like Arming sword, falchion, viking sword, horseman axe. When i get hit, it's clear it hit me. Mace, morning star... im like WTF every single time. I watched you not hit me, i saw the end of that mace flay through the air front of me... but i took damage. Its obviously desync of some sort, but it affects those weapons VERY clearly.

[jolly leaf]

Well Mace and Morningstar are so good compared to the two other I'm not surprised we don't see much War hammer and Club. Both have a very weird range when Mace and Morn land hit out of nowhere

[rugged summit]

alright so im not crazy at least.

Again it doesn't seem to be an issue with other weapons, i've always found the weapon hitboxes are actually quite good in this game. Just not with those 2 weapons.

It genuinely feels like they artificially extended the range on those weapons.

[austere bramble]

I think that warlock shouldn’t be able to either walk through other players or use the flame boots thing whilst in phantomize because they run faster and sit in the persons hit box so the enemy is forced to walk on the fire and it’s not like they can get warlock out of phantomize or smthing

[jolly leaf]

Maybe a good start could be that they get slowed when they walk through player so they can't just stick to you

[austere bramble]

Yes

[rugged summit]

That's actually a good one. It makes phantomize behave differently based on context. Using it to flame walk someone needs to be timed better to get them in a cramped area where a slowing effect wont matter. Using it to flee, you don't need to worry about a slowing effect as long as you path carefully.

[arctic lagoon]

Do certain magic spells get reduced when it hits limbs? like zap or dark orb

if so, WHY DOESNT CURSE OF PAIN

[jolly leaf]

Yes, spell that are projectile, so Fireball, Ice bolt, Bolt of Darkness, Magic missile, Probably Hydra firebolt. Zap, all the Curses stuff like Dreamfire or lightning strike are not affected by Limb/Headshot because they're Zone or Hitscan spell

Don't think Hellfire is considered a Projectile

[arctic lagoon]

Thats absurd, its still doing insane full damage

[jolly leaf]

I don't think it's a good idea to make Zap or Curse of pain do limb damage if you hit the leg or arm because that's mean there going to do more damage if you hit the head and there hitscan spell so it's going to be easier than Icebolt or Bolt of darkness, easier even than an Arrow. We don't want that

[hardy niche]

"Trident" Unique spear, applies underwater noise effect, has 3 heads

[shrewd cape]

I continue to think that a way to train on boss could be a really good option.... It's way so annoying when you want to train on troll and you spawn on North West ; more over people are just so toxic they don't want you to try it, most of time: Barb just want to hit you because they are stupid, Rogue want to kill you because it's a bip class (and troll is almost their boss), Warlock just spam fireballs with no skill to kill you... Bard and Ranger try to hit the boss to aggro him and put the roar on you to kill you (when it doesn't work they hit you with their bow clap clap)... It's not nice. Druids, I just don't talk about druids... I'm so upset against their little bip in PvP (Hit, go to rat, chicken heal, Hit, again and again... It seems they are just bot with no skill)

For the sanity of the game, I mean the necessity to get new player, this game should have a boss train mode. Why ? Because new players just get away from here and the game will end with a more and more toxic community. They are some nice people but they are few, it's not normal to find only people who's boring on the game and just want to kill people, PvPvE not only PvP so why there is that much PvP only players ?

I think the idea behind PvPvE could be a great thing if we felt more the PvE side of this. Actually I feel more PvP than PvE... it's like PvE miss something to be really part of the PvP... More over PvE exists only for quests after that people don't give a fuck about PvE it's quite a shame to feel that this "almost-masterpiece" is only guided by thoses players who just think about "KILL PEOPLE, KILL PEOPLE" just because they have something to compensate in their life...

I enjoy PvP but when I try to train on boss it's just boring, make non-sense... Why boss should be only for the PvP elite ? I'm tired to kill and be killed by people when I just want to train

@keen onyx I tag you because old players just want the game to stay like that but you have to know the vision of new players on your game to make it attractive. The old players are complacent in this situation, they are better than other people so why to put a way to make the game a bit more accessible ? After all they've walk on the hard way, so all people should do that (sarcasm)

I can't put more than 1 of my friend on this game because there is too much really small things that not works and we have to adapt on those little things to be able to compete with other players... The decision is yours

(I enjoy and love the game but I'm about to leave because I'm too frustrated to not be able to do such a thing like training cause of other players, no chance to win against a Guy who played 2000 hours and I dont have time to reach this exp...)

Good night all

[jolly leaf]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/576260/improvement-to-the-new-matchmaking-system-and-map-rotation
Posting this suggestions about Matchmaking and map rotation because it's a really good idea and I don't see any downside to it
(Upvote if you like it )

[hollow estuary]

1. yes for sure
2. stats should just be less important in general, prioritize skill
3. then those non ranged classes will be kited out of existance, it's either that everyone has ranged, or nobody has ranged/can deal with ranged effectively
4. play <124 lobbies

[hollow estuary]

i agree, armor should only affect specific body parts because that would be pretty cool
you can then build specific builds for dealing with different weapons
-plate pants + boots for dealing with rangers that shoot your feet
-chestplate for dealing with rondel dagger

you can build kits that defend specifically against legs, arms and chest, but leave the helmet off so they aim head level and you parry with longsword
the possibilities will be pretty interesting
and also a nightmare to balance i assume but you really can't get worse than the current balancing of the game

[vestal cloud]

L PATCH MAJOR L PATCH LETS SUUUUUPER BUFF BARBARIAN INSTED OF 2 SHOTTING LETS LET THEM 1 SHOT

[astral holly]

Has there been any change to the match making system?

Last I played veterans 0 to hero the noob lobbies. Not fun.

[prisma shadow]

You know, many of this game’s balancing issues would be solved if they actually added Skill expression in the form of blocking and counter attacking. You know, like in actual Melee COMBAT. But what do I know?

Press W and Left Click and let the gear do the work for you I guess.

You would get more prolonged fights and more opportunities to outwit your opponent instead of it becoming a kite fest with hitting someone and then backing away

[jolly leaf]

So... Have you seen #📢announcements? Seems like they're doing what you suggested, but wrong xD We'll have more detail at the end of maintenance but it look like Base stats of every rarity have been normalized, Armor included? Also the -15 max HP... They nerfed the stats, so damage, of everyone but also reduced armor and HP... Hopefully the TTK is not shorter than it was before

PS : Every weapon rarity now have Epic weapon damage, but every Armor rarity now have Common armor value... He might ha e reduced TTK even for high end gear

[dapper gull]

Allow Outplay to automatically record arenas like in the dungeons

[verbal shell]

my suggestion for arena. have the match start with 0 mobs, as the match goes on to prevent stalemates, release mobs into the match the longer it goes, increasing the amount and difficulty until someone dies.

[alpine radish]

Devs: just stop

[jolly leaf]

We'll see in the next few day if those change are Ok or terrible but yeah... That don't smell good imo

[alpine radish]

well, im not grinding gear any more, whats the point, ill go skill diff a full legendary in my whites ig

[jolly leaf]

Yeah, i'm afraid that those change will shorten TTK a lot and that we'll be back in the "Everyone one shot everyone" Era

[alpine radish]

its more like, whats the point in grinding now

[jolly leaf]

Well with better loot drop the point will be to get Legendary gear with very good random attributs as that can still do a big difference

Also I guess Artifact will become a much more prized thing

[alpine radish]

ill just skill dif in whites

[jolly leaf]

Yep, well that's what SDF wanted? I guess? I don't know how killing the looting aspect of the game will make it a better dungeon crawling experience but

[rugged summit]

Stat rolls just got WAY more exciting. Now that you can't get multiple of the same group, it's going to be looking for those perfect pieces that will keep you looting. Okay I got boots that will get my MS where i want it, now i REALLY need that helmet for some more Phys Pow.

[jolly leaf]

Yeah that's what I think too but in the same time I don't know... That don't smell good. I'm afraid that base stat on item will be so unbalenced that random attributs won't be enough or worth it. Like @alpine radish said you'll ve able to farm legendary people even with white or green gear. Like Epic weapon damage on every weapon but White armor value on every armor? With -15 Max HP on every class?

I'm very scared that TTK will be so low that even white gear will be able to 2-3 tap anything (especially barb with that insane buff)

[rugged summit]

That was the intent though. they said they really want to flatten gear, so they can get rid of gearscore

[novel wyvern]

Yo im having trouble getting into the game it keeps saying failure to connect to server. what do i do?

[jolly leaf]

Yeah sure, i'm ok with that but why would they also reduced Max HP and Armor? That dob't feel right

[jolly leaf]

There's a maintenance, have a look at #📢announcements and be patient

[rugged summit]

Max HP reduction due to vigor being available easily.

[jolly leaf]

? Sry I don't understand what you mean?

[rugged summit]

So for example reinforced gloves start at 5 vigor

White items now have the base attribute that Purple items have. So reinforced gloves that were normally +2 Vigor at White, are now +5.

so White reinforced gloves + White Heavly leather leggings = +10 vig

[meager jasper]

The game was the best it was ever, directly after steam release and im feeling those changes are basically gone. Disappointing

[prisma shadow]

You know, many of this game’s balancing issues would be solved if they actually added Skill expression in the form of blocking and counter attacking. You know, like in actual Melee COMBAT. But what do I know?

Press W and Left Click and let the gear do the work for you I guess.

You would get more prolonged fights and more opportunities to outwit your opponent instead of it becoming a kite fest with hitting someone and then backing away

[jolly leaf]

Yeah Ok i think I get it, people will probably focus a bit more Vigor so less Strengh so damage and low rarity item will give more HP. Well you know what, we'll see how it goes but I'm really uncertain about the -15 Max HP on every class and White armor value on every armor

[jolly leaf]

There's a lot of suggestions like this one on the website, have a look and upvote them

[limber elbow]

just like what i say this Patch update will nerf rogue again or give rogue useless buff and it's 100% right , -15HP down from 100 to 85 hp back to old rogue and useless buff poison dagger DEAD GAME

[jolly leaf]

Or comeback of the Landmine meta as everyone have less armor and HP. Of course it won't work on plate figther or barb tho

[limber elbow]

they die because they walk like they are the main character dont care anything in the world and hide cooldown old time is 60 sec but now is 10 sec who can landmine if you open door and wait 10s ???

[rugged summit]

Again the gear changes make the HP Nerf less significant than i initially though It's till big. but when you consider than you can build +15 vigor from your squire kit with only Heavy leather legging + regal Gambeson + reinforced gloves.

[jolly leaf]

Build a bit of buff duration, Hide mastery and you have a 30 sec Hide with half the cooldown it used to have in the past

[alpine radish]

L

[jolly leaf]

That make you very slow tho

[limber elbow]

-15HP for all class but all player talk about Wiz or Warlock..why??? they are Fking range class cast spell to win not run into people and use sword , Warlock with spell book out cast instal and move speed more than 310 and PDR shit still no nerf

[limber elbow]

talk again who say hide with perk is 30s ??? who build a Rogue with full Buff for a hide ??? where the damage to 1 shot if he build full buff to 30s ??? smoke weeb to noob ?

[jolly leaf]

PDR did get nerfed, every item now have White gear armor value so it's harder to reach high PDR

[random field]

This is disgusting, SDF is going to kill this game, the players like the game for a reason, why ruin it by changing things to be how you want and not how the players want? Is that not the purpose of being in contact with the community???

[rugged summit]

I mean yeah sure. loose trouser now give +5 agi

[prisma shadow]

Don’t listen to these haters SDF

[jolly leaf]

8 sec x 2.5 with hide mastery, if you get 25% buff duration you end up with a 25sec hide

[limber elbow]

Are you Fking high again ??? PDR is the cap 75% class can stack and only fighter - warlock can stack up to 75 and MDR 30% with HP 200 all other class have range spell and bow know what mean nerf PDR and nerf all class PDR ???

[rugged summit]

PDR just got nerfed to the floor

[prisma shadow]

KEEP DOING WHAT YOURE DOING SO I CAN BE FREE FROM THE SHACKLES. I WANT TO BE FREE.

[rugged summit]

I was mad at first, but now i understnad some details better, this is probabaly going to be a good change. there will likely need to be more adjustments, but it's probabaly going to make things much more fair, and handle some of the power creep that was happening at the high-end

[limber elbow]

PDR is the CAP 75% not nerf gear down or just let all the class got sprint + second wind and full plate ??

[rugged summit]

Yes but all gear just got put down to the armour rating of common quality. So Purple items had thier AR dropped down to what the White equivalant was.

AR is MUCH harder to get now

[jolly leaf]

Honestly I just blocked him, don't seems like there's any point talking to him

[rugged summit]

+AR stat rolls on plate are going to be worth A LOT

[limber elbow]

The PDR problem all about the Fighter but the noob IRONMACE nerf all gear PDR that mean all class nerf , nerf -15 just because Fighter stack HP + PDR again so all other class -15 because 1 class , rogue can 1 shot player nerf from perk to gear to skill to gear and only gear rogue not all class nerf

[jolly leaf]

That made me think that Riveted glove, padded tunic, Shadow hood or something like that and you have 15 Strengh base kit

Base kit Shadow Mask xD

7 stat point on a white item

Same goes for Druid, white gear bear druid is going to be veeeeeery strong

+20 Strengh Ith Straw hat, riveted glove, heavy boot, and padded tunic, add a +5 agi on legs. Druid are going to be pretty strong

[rugged summit]

Base kit is going to be strong on every class now actually. Yo my Platelock is going to have INSANE Will... Crystal is gonna go hard.

[jolly leaf]

Honestly I don't know how it'll turn out. I'll play and we'll see. Same than you, I start to see what they try to do, i'm not very convinced but we don't have the detail yet

(Unfortunately people are spamming shit in the game discussion channel so we can't talk about anything...)

[mint ledge]

Please add in 0 gear score lobbies where you spawn in with absolutely nothing except one item (no squire gear, no weapons, and no items other than either 1 potion, torch, or throwing knife etc...) I think it would be fun

[glad flower]

they are not cooking with this one

[austere bramble]

Barb has 1 solid range option(2 if ur counting drum

[leaden tinsel]

this new update is a fucking bull shit

[tiny wigeon]

Removing max hp from everyone , nerfing wizard damage.
And buffing barbarian, great!
I die to 3 Francisca axes ❤️

[dense sentinel]

please remove the door knocking/banging sound from the halloween lobby skin, it is VERY annoying to hear so constantly when sitting in lobby, and the only downside to this otherwise awesome cosmetic

[fast maple]

let me search my stash for certain random modifiers and whatever else

[restive ravine]

i think the gear change is good, but they shouldn't have touched any classes or. other balance in the same patch they balanced gear

[willow heart]

grey gear supremacy, base stats are way too high... 2 shotting people with ranger longbow lol

[tardy parcel]

umm game is dead no? everybody is 2 shotting everyone entered trios just to have 3 barb in my team, fought against 3 barbs

well at least rangers now feel like snipers you 1 shot people with windlass

[blazing fern]

SDF PLEASE REVERT PATCH
This patch litterally killed the main point of the game, you don't need to loot or kill bosses anymore, most gear is pointless.
People are just playing squire gear and murdering each other in 2 hits, there's litterally no room for mistakes, just insanely fast TTKs.
This patch will kill the game if not reverted/changed soon.

[tardy parcel]

at least remove chests, no one is looting anyway

[edgy cosmos]

can you just make it big arena we go it fight and that all becaus this is what the game look like now

[meager jasper]

Terrible patch, needs to be completely reverted minus bugfixes.

I knew when I saw him say he wanted to return to his "original vision" that meant a completely unfun twitch reaction pvp game style that increasingly dominated before the steam release and rebalance shook it up.

We had a good thing going. And it's fumbled. I dont even think they're intelligent enough to realize what they have tbh. Call me a doomer. They do this stupid shit all the time.

[warped onyx]

This new patch is actual hot garbage, it's not too late to revert and learn from your mistakes

[tardy parcel]

I know you guys making a patch stay like 1 week to gather data and decide if the patch is broken or not but you guys do not have to wait for data in this patch

just revert it

[compact plume]

we can fire up SDF?

[tropic frigate]

Nerf barb

[livid mason]

if they are going to this route THEY NEED TO INCREASE THE MIN AND MAX ROLLS AS IT STANDS NOW, BARB JUST AUTOCHECK YOU IN MS and probably hard cap barb stats. and loots boring

[proud ferry]

Haven’t found a streamer that’s enjoying these changes. There’s still time, don’t ruin the gem this game was

[latent tundra]

man wants to make the game he wants to make.. if you dont like it you dont play it, simple

[meager jasper]

That's the intention, lol.

[latent tundra]

🚪 <---

[meager jasper]

If you're trying to get me to leave the server and not give feedback you can take the door yourself bud. But yeah I'm not actually playing right now.

I'm gonna complain, and complain loudly, as I have every time they've made a dumb decision.

Feedback is literally the point of an early access.

[forest mauve]

squire gear is the basically epic now which means ttk is at its all time high you can basically 1-2 hit any class with any weapon except barbarian who now has anywhere from 30-40% more hp

[edgy cosmos]

Dont make the mistake of waiting too long because the only thing gonna happen is bad review in steam and massive drop of player and when its happen is too late u gonna need a lot of effort for just get back to the original level of player base before this very bad patch sdf dont fuck it up a good game (we are tired of seing stubborn dev killing good there game out of ego of wierd vision dont match the players or the game ) im not talking about you sdf but many dev before do it
Diablo is the biggest exemple new world .....

Get back to basic and hear feedback from player when play the game

❤️❤️ good luck after this patch😁

[ivory quartz]

The type of the game he (SDF) wants to make changes every two weeks. His vision is inconsistent

[latent tundra]

even if that's true it's still his game and he can do what he wants, better or worse

[ivory quartz]

Well actually he can't, because its not his game, he stole it from Nexon, and will be getting reamed in court within a year actually.

[grave stirrup]

SDF STEP DOWN YOUR IDEAS HAVE BEEN ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE FOR A LONG TIME BRO, STOP SMOKING ROCKS AND LET GRAYSUN TAKE THE LEAD

[polar crescent]

i would be fine if he was like "we reverted the game back to how it was in pre test"

[grave stirrup]

was this war on progress necessary? literally sucked the fun out of this game man lol WHY

[ivory quartz]

Yes this, Stop letting SDF have any creative control over this game, and just revert it to a time when everyone can agree the game was better. Playtest 2-4.

WE WANT DARK AND DARKER CLASSIC

[latent tundra]

I really disagree I hated the grind before it was so bloated and lame and made fun PVP moments super far in between

[grave stirrup]

^

#SDFKED

[ruby nimbus]

TRUTH

[ivory quartz]

Sounds like you want to play fortnite, You know you can leave at any time.

[grave stirrup]

the fun is in the grind. Removing RNG was the worst thing they could've done. SDF is useless with terrible ideas

[latent tundra]

I enjoy the game and I like changes that let me play the game more

[grave stirrup]

@keen onyx step down bud, you're ruining this game overnight

[latent tundra]

hard disagree this patch is much more fun so far

[polar crescent]

its just pvp at this point

[latent tundra]

I do agree that the mobs are a lot weaker, esp in normal, you can roll through them super easy

edit: strengthening them a bit to counteract the increase in gear power may be smart, or something like that

[polar crescent]

imagine i give to you the best sword in all the lands the greatest god slaying weapon and it does the same damage as the axe you find on the street

[latent tundra]

bruh just cuz the white base dmg is the same, it doesnt compare to a legendary weapon that's got great stats. you think that'l win in an equal 1v1 when the legendary sword has armor pen+weapon dmg +physical power+Hp+whatever?

the difference is smaller but youre still gonna roll if youre similarly skilled, theres still big multipliers to be had

[polar crescent]

we are doing tests right now its super close unless you are stacking like true physical or something like its not enough to justify how much better that gear is

[latent tundra]

I really dont agree with that. not to mention even a SINGLE POINT in anything like attack speed anywhere across the board means you instant win a perfectly equal engagement

edit: the stats on full builds compound and scale like crazy

[polar crescent]

you are misunderstanding the whole point a legendary weapon should be so much better than the common its not comparable but right now it is thats the whole point of a loot system

[ruby nimbus]

i agree with @polar crescent

[latent tundra]

but it IS so much better, the difference is literally auto-win levels, unless youre BAD at the game, in which the skilled dude will take your shit

[polar crescent]

ive stopped looting im just running at people and killing them just as fast as i would in legendary

[polar crescent]

it really took skill for that barb to just hit me 1 time and i die

[latent tundra]

to be fair barbs did that before anyway cuz they spent all their money on 1 good weapon and went chest/helmless

[polar crescent]

he was naked he had just a weapon and it hit me for over 100

[latent tundra]

so nothing has changed lol

Im not really talking about class balance anyway. barbs basically ignore gear anyway now, they get a reckless swing with 100% armor pen so idk that seems good right? tied into the -15 hp nerf to everyone yeah it has happened to me a few times already

but I think that's a class issue not so much a gear issue.

[grave stirrup]

I have a suggestion: remove SDF

[latent tundra]

not constructive nor useful lol, just whining.

if i were to add value to enchanted items, I think the next step to add value to legendaries and stuff would be to reduce droprates again, and get rid of dead stats like interaction speed (which is SO FKN boring and lame), so your legendaries are always statted a bit better

and the next step would be to allow all of a weapons stat power to be aligned into a single stat, so you could have a legendary longsword with like, your base dmg, but with a sick +4 additional phys dmg

[grave stirrup]

They completely ruined the whole ideology of RNG looting in a game about looting. Blows my mind how out of touch SDF is with the community

[latent tundra]

there are several different ways that power levels and looting could be made "more interesting" without big stat disparities, even if you like "good loot" perhaps suggest an alternative that doesnt have stats as the main hook?

unique cosmetic gear would be dope, or weird unique traits like a weapon with a chance to cast a certain spell or something

[honest lance]

Druids shape shift gains charges similar to rangers back step
Warlock healing functions like physical healing. Add a mastery perk for demon pact similar to druids and for the love of God buff/rework dark offering.
Rangers bear traps made an ability like rogues caltrops. Recharges at campfire. Lower base kit str and bow innate armor pen. Also all equipment in the game has projectile protection.
Wizard casting times lengthened but Ms penalty for casting lowered
Cleric Maybe buff base str and lower amount of spell charges on healing abilities.
Rogues caltrops and smoke pots can be recharges at a campfire. lower armor pen.
Barbarian base agi lowered.
Bards music buffs either lowered slightly or lowered drastically and made scalable with a stat.

This is my list of changes before gear changes, I'm too depressed to think about that rn so can someone rate my class suggestions instead?

[grave stirrup]

nah, RNG is the sole reason why a ton of people play the game. Removing RNG excitement is such a terrible idea

[latent tundra]

bruh literally I suggested fun ways to make the RNG exciting, and I agree with you on that point

edit: I just think the power lvl disparity between low and high gear was stupid, borderline silly, like gacha game grind levels of grind2win BS

I totally agree some excitement was lost on the loot RNG front, it is 100% a fact there that your gear has lost value, but I think the gain from less power disparity it was better for the pacing of the game.

looking forward though, I think a great idea would be to find fun things to add to items that would make them especially exciting to find, without power creeping too much, and allowing lower lvl or non-combat loot still be fun to find

[deep laurel]

I wonder if they would make demon armor like shapeshift master perk so bloodpact could be faster or instant cast.

[vestal cloud]

game is now super boring lol what where they thinking with this patch like wtf

[deep laurel]

I mainly play for the PVP but the RNG was a huge part of the game for most of the community. If they make normal gear like epic, then the random stats need to be waaaaaay more enticing.

[vestal cloud]

we need play test 1 stats now on items for it too be good again lol

[honest lance]

Gear changes
Unique increases doesn't change
Legendary and purple equal bonuses to old legendary
Blue and green equal bonuses equal to old purp
Poor and common equal to old blue
And pdr/mdr scales the same it used to

[edgy cosmos]

i hope really

[pallid vortex]

I have played, a few games now and i dont think i would play this game as a new player, its way less fun now, These changes are crazy

[blazing acorn]

I love the idea of hotfix 69 but i would suggest rolling back and implementing this sort of change during a full game wipe, rather than mid-wipe. I think this would have been taken much more positively by the community if everyone didn’t lose all of their BiS items with no notice

[pallid vortex]

if game ever permenantly changes to this, it seems that me and all my friends are quiting, because its so bad right now

[latent tundra]

oh my lord why is everyone such a BABY jesus christ

[blazing acorn]

People don’t like changes because they’re uncomfortable

[latent tundra]

it's so fkn CRINGE dude like the game hasnt hcanged the fundementals at ALL, like I guarantee 90% of the players have NO sense of the real changes this makes

Like YEAH players in worse gear can take your shiny items, GET GOOD

[tribal belfry]

It’s not even that there just no point to grinding the game

[blazing acorn]

And this is part of the reason why i mentioned in my prev. message why I think they should revert this change, and reimplement it at the start of the next full wipe, so everyone starts at 0 and there is naturally something to grind for

[latent tundra]

yeah you do still need to grind, cuz GOOD PLAYERS will wanna get good gear and beat other GOOD PLAYERS, cuz they need those stats. if youre mad at these changes it's only cuz youre not good enough to notice the difference the stats make

[blazing acorn]

And alongside this change, we need to dip into the PVE gear heavily and add lots of new PVE content, if we did that in combination with this change, that would be a huge W for a fresh wipe

[blazing acorn]

This is true, but a lot of players are saying they feel like there is “nothing to grind for” because the gear change implemented completely destroyed everyone’s kits that they… grinded for…

[latent tundra]

yeah but it's literally just not true? your blue gear is objectively better than white? skill and knowledge just takes a bigger part of the pie now

[austere bramble]

i think what hes trying to say is that number wise on gear it’s the exact same for random rolls and also that they removed the double hp and ms rolls

[latent tundra]

It could be fun if all your stat rolls could be in 1 stat, sure

[hybrid holly]

How about a lobby skin where the leader's skin is displayed for all to see, since it can be as fun as valorant or apex skins!
I think being able to try it out easily would increase the willingness to buy
I was disappointed that no quests were added and no event items, but I am very happy with the paid Halloween lobby skins!

[nocturne forge]

+1

[junior spade]

how about a change to range weapons? 2 arrow shots to kill anyone from across the room is just stupid

[nocturne forge]

i usually dont participate here since most of the time IM doesnt give a f about the playerbase feedback

but this last change not only changed how the game is played, it also changed what the game is about... whats the point of dungeon dwelling in the search of loot, if the forst mob i encounter can drop a legendary that has the same stats/appearance of the squire gear

[grave stirrup]

downvote on steam. Only way we'll make any noise, it will affect sales and will make people think twice before buying the game. SDF is ruining this fking game and it's really sad to see in realtime

[tribal belfry]

He used to make good updates I remember every week we would get a good update not wait 2 weeks for a not good patch then have to wait another 2 weeks for them to fix something and it just goes on and on

[late marsh]

Seeing this suggestion all over the steam forums on every patch note post.
"General suggestions:

1. Add regional prices and allow us to buy it directly from steam store
2. Add steam achievements
3. Add trading cards for full-access accounts
4. Fix Linux port

Game suggestions:

1. Add rarity outlines for items in player inventory and player stash
2. Add hover text for status icons in-match
3. Add search function in the stash"

Not like they listen to anything as this was posted over 20+ times now. I doubt they listen to us at all

[austere bramble]

make it on the website

[late marsh]

They have.

[austere bramble]

ok idk then

[nocturne forge]

buys directly from steam wont happen, it is done this way so you can't get a refund... all microtransactions (including the legendary status) bought ingame, are by default no refundable operations on steam

[proud ferry]

You know it’s bad when onepeg refuses to play and decides to play New World @keen onyx please look into doing something immediately. This uproar doesn’t seem like it’s gonna just “chill”

Just a suggestion

[vestal cloud]

it would be cool if theres a thing where if you die too mobs in hr you wake up naked i a jail cell surrounded by guards and you need to punch your way too your gear in a chest somewhere

[vestal cloud]

barb and barber yyyyyaaaayyyyy

so fun getting 1 shot every game wow im actually gonna quit this game and i really dont want too but the devs have been literally smoking some new shit

[proud ferry]

I’m with ya, I main ranger even though it’s a buff for us the loss of incentive gives me no motivation to play the game until it’s reverted. Unreal to drop something like this when they were on such a good path

[polar crescent]

ya tbh i might just drop the game until they open their eyes

[worthy nymph]

they ruined the game, didn't they?

[rancid owl]

lmfao all the doomers in here mad they nerfed gear-checking, stay strong IM

[worthy nymph]

It's not about gear-checking for me, it's almost all other updates they made 😉

[rancid owl]

Was referring to stuff like this

People in here dooming that RNG is gone because the attributes no longer scale with gear rarity, even though in the past inbuilt stats on most gear didn't exist.

[grim bane]

@keen onyx @dawn grotto

• Make Rolls Better the higher the Rarity
  Ex:
  Max Health:
  Green: +1
  Blue: +1-2
  Etc.
  (Keep Add/True DMG rolls Same)
  ———————-
• Slighty Increase Unique Name Drop Rate
• Add More Low Tier Name Items
• Increase Spawn Chance Rate for Named Mobs
• Increase Drop Rate for Crafted Items
• Introduce Non Ore Craftable Armor & Pure Ore Craftable Weapons (ex: Rubysilver Long Sword)
• Add Item Sockets / Enhanced Gems
• Add Backpack/Quiver
  ————-

Appreciate if someone can copy and paste this to the Suggestion Website. Don’t care if I get credited 💙

[onyx citrus]

I believe they should make test server accessible for free and apply the changes there before releasing it on the main server, make a poll kind of after and let the community decide if it is a good change or bad. Especially these changes coming mid season and gear rarity being completely worthless is completely pointless. People got their stashes full of bis and now white gear can compete with any gearset. Makes no sense, apply it beginning of season and people can ease into it that way at least.

[rancid owl]

You still have the random rolls, gear rarity still matters the potential advantage it provides is just less extreme. Sweats are going to grind it out regardless because they'll take any advantage they can get regardless of how much. It's just funny to me seeing them dooming that stat checking because you have more hours played or gold hoarded than your opponent just got a big nerf. Gear should compliment skill, not replace the need for it.

[grim bane]

Agreed, they should reward people for playing a few hours (only counts for playtime in dungeon) onto the testing environment. They can also additionally be rewarded things when they send out a form for extra feedback.

(Rewards will be transferred to the actual game.)

[clever anvil]

They don't care. Test sever already access for 35USD. Not to mention that the test server was originally promised as a privilege for those who spent $50 on the deluxe edition...

They will say that the game is still in the early testing phase, and we must accept all their impulsive changes.

[grim bane]

Bad copout since they need us to fund their game. Questionable & Sudden/Drastic changes is only going to displease players. Not to mention hurt their reputation

Also that’s the whole point of the testing server, to test stuff. It’s very unconventional and unprofessional to use live for testing purposes especially when people already treat this game as if it’s fully released.

[onyx citrus]

This game has been released onto 3 different platforms now, steam, blacksmith and epic games. I do not know how they don't listen to the community. Sure different opinions form but all I see is people complaining about this patch so how was this a good update? All they have to do is just make test server free, release updates there like 2-3 days before and only then release them to main server upon checking for the community's feedback. Make it a yes or no poll and thats it

[glacial sphinx]

Normalizing stats across rarities probably went slightly too far and hurts the feeling of finding loot. I think it would be okay to have a higher minimum value with still some progression. That leads to a tighter gear balance overall but you still see clear progression from going from green to unique.

So essentially my suggestion is: Take Uncommon as the new baseline instead of (the old) Epic, and then apply +1 to base stats every two rarity levels. So for example Grey and White Loose Trousers are +3 Agi. Green and Blue are +4, Epic and Legendary +5. Unique +6.

[slow arch]

quicker ttk is not the way

[cunning yacht]

24 lobbys need to be back every fight is one tap if you dont have gear and im trying to help people who just started playing

or stats rolled back

[wild bone]

Shit update

[proper shadow]

Make a tiny loot goblin to find in each room between dungeons that has random treasure

[mint ledge]

This update would be ok if the base stat rolls from common to epic weren’t so flat and we had player made modifiers (the gem socketing hypothetical update)

That’s the only way this update could have possibly done well.

If you’re going to continue with this update you’d have to either nerf barbarian’s health buffs, skills, and perks or buff every other class.

While Sdf’s vision to make it so that any class can 1v3 is respectable, this update makes it so that the fight between any 1v1 is already decided.

You can just put on strength gear to have higher damage so that you can one shot any class with whatever weapon so long as you have enough true damage or armor pen.

At least make it so that common gear has slightly lower rolls than rare - legendary gear, or just roll it back to its previous state.

I think the double health rolls and double movespeed rolls elimination was good, but now you can’t win in hr against a cleric and two barbs or just 1v1 a barb, even with proper spacing and ranged advantage. Either you get hit once and die or get hit once and get away, but then the barb pops skills, and theeeen you die.

[jagged horizon]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[prisma shadow]

You know, many of this game’s balancing issues would be solved if they actually added Skill expression in the form of blocking and counter attacking. You know, like in actual Melee COMBAT. But what do I know?

Press W and Left Click and let the gear do the work for you I guess.

You would get more prolonged fights and more opportunities to outwit your opponent instead of it becoming a kite fest with hitting someone and then backing away

[acoustic imp]

Please understand devs, that yes this patch made the game less gear dependant, but it also made the entire purpose of the genre get thrown out the window. Nobody wants to play a game where the entire purpose is to get loot, and when you get the loot its essentially meaningless. It's like if I played fortnite or pubg and still won even though I got 10th place. It's like playing a game like TCG card shop simulator or any tycoon game and your business never grows. How do you not realize this?

[narrow snow]

Add more variance to gameplay through utility items.

Example: Cockatrice head for a cc effect like the cockatrice can do (Obviously this would be a hyper rare unique item with a once per run use)

Bag of holding: Let's you use Expressman early without needing to go into the waiting room once per run

Shoes of swiftness press a button to go fast once per run or rechargeable. But make the base boots pretty mid.

Shit like that, game is stale AF all you guys do is balance change this balance change that when all the balance is going to be thrown out the window each wipe anyways. Why bother tuning balance to something that's going to be tipped on its head in a month anyways. Focus on content first and do balance kind of like how deadlock does with constant small balance changes added in but not being the sole focus on updates. Your game and business aren't progressing you need to work on new systems and content.

[jagged horizon]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[prisma shadow]

Game is lacking content big time

[polar crescent]

the game feels so stale now its crazy the gameplay loop is now just die, use squire gear, run at people, repeat

[peak lantern]

at this point a big company should buy this game and save it from this sdf dude. they are literally killing their game with bad changes over and over again

[vale elm]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[quartz jetty]

If we wanted to play Fortnite we would. We want to play Dark and Darker! Revert the patch!

[shrewd cape]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[austere bramble]

My thoughts exactly

[prisma shadow]

You know, many of this game’s balancing issues would be solved if they actually added Skill expression in the form of blocking and counter attacking. You know, like in actual Melee COMBAT. But what do I know?

Press W and Left Click and let the gear do the work for you I guess.

You would get more prolonged fights and more opportunities to outwit your opponent instead of it becoming a kite fest with hitting someone and then backing away

[main anchor]

Tbh if they want to keep the gear like that they should change de base to 3 for everything and 2/2, in exchange buff the random stats to be able to have like 3 dex instead of 2 for example, so the gear gap would be less impactful from before, but the randoms stats if buffed, would probably be enough to give the necessary gap between base gear and a good gear, and make the difference weapons damage from any weapons like it was before

[kindred flare]

Goblin race when? I wanna be a lil green pos running around with a short sword. 🤣🙏

[high meadow]

Try hiring dev's who want to create a game, not ruin it

[tidal lake]

I'm going back and forth on this to be honest
Barb buff was completely unnecessary. They tried to address fighters which i support.

I think mid season drastic change of gameplay is bad no matter how you slice it. But i can get what they wanted to do. We've been angry that balance is bad and how in 24s druid is bad to play outside a spear build that makes you play like worse version of fighter. Or about how if you hit 125 you're gonna get smoked by people who have gotten to the point where grass is merely a memory or theoretical concept than a tangible object with 600 gs. I still would have liked it to be more brackets as the solution but with the player base being what it is that would result in many many dead lobbies. In some ways though this is exactly what was asked for though, for the most part people can't hear rely on gear gap to determine fights. If everyone is overpowered than nobody is. If it weren't for the barb changes and creating such a disparity again the changes wouldn't have been as bad on paper. Take that away and people wouldn't feel like that's the best class to play or ranger or wiz with their 15 magic missles
Now the benefit for rarity is being able to stack off stats. I like that my squire set let's be build what I would have squeezed into 124 before. Farmed gear could be used in high roller. If they stick with this then they can add gem sockets to rarity which immediately puts found and crafted gear back on top when we can insert gems to augment stats/ or even how abilities operate i.e. epic gem that turns restore into a heal instead of HoT. This change does open up new paths for growth and of course people will be upset, but if it had to happen might as well rip the bandaid off.

So the big concern is devs outside the game and burning b trust. "I have concepts of a plan" just tell us the road map, commination, use your test server to test. The changes per class are always heavy handed.

[coral heron]

Barb buff was trash. Gobo merchant update was trash, I back the gear star change for the most part.

[tidal lake]

I do think this as a foundation has more potential then what we had. Alot of people are salty that they can't gear check anyone who tripped over b124.. but i also get that anger when it's mid cycle. The barbarian changes were a really bad choice as well as not factoring that ranger would be where it is. Testing the game changes could have prevented this. And it's always big big changes. They didn't even let this massive gear change settle before b adjusting gear. Another reason dev trust is in the basement

[austere bramble]

For the people who think barb buff is the problem please look no further
Let’s take pre patch bardiche as an example weapon for damage
At base it does 50 damage
Pre buff it did
50+(50x.1 for rage)+3 for axe spec=58
Post buff it would do
50+(50x.15 for rage)+ 5 for axe spec=50+7.5+5=62.5
Subtracting pre buff damage from theoretical post buff damage is 62.5-58=4.5
So in total the buff amounted to 4.5 extra base damage
The only reason people should be complaint about barb dealing more damage is the gear change in which, may I remind you, a legendary(excluding rolls) deals the same base damage as a white

[jagged horizon]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[vast sorrel]

"Changed the additional magic damage of Void Blade and Demon's Glee to magic weapon damage." they didnt do this at all demons glee is still add

[tidal lake]

Except with the -15 hp that padding is gone so it's "effectively" a bigger hit per percentage. Barb if strong right now and the +10 to str between base and the rage is overtuned paired together like they are. It's okay to admit it, we don't have to pretend that isn't the case or that barb isn't this patches fighter being better than average long shot, with reach weapons as well as the longest damage windows on certain swings. Current squire barb my partner swung thru a bard and a rogue and killed both of them in the same single tap That's not even including the zwei

[vast sorrel]

i think its the combination of the health nerf and gear nerf including max health rolls, in game like this there are certain thresholds you can reach to be comftorable your not 2 shotable and now that is very hard to achieve

[tidal lake]

I'm a fan of some of the changes (barb and ranger meta not withstanding) but this half baked change just needed time in the oven. Like the gear sockets augmenting stub stats/ swing patterns/ how abilities function. I hope that's the plan at least. Idk since we aren't told anything. Why do it mid wipe, and take away the whole looter aspect of the game, they have little to no reason to go into hr or get gear from normals. In the current state you might get a few sub stats off gear but the gains are minimal vs squire so there's really no point. An entire swathe of the player base were addicted to gambling and that's been all but taken away. But we are closer than we have been recently to shill winning fights

[dapper gull]

im curious. What gear do you usually run?

[ivory quartz]

They can't buff rogue even when they try. SDF can't bring himself to do it

[austere bramble]

My point was that it was the gear and health change rather than barb buffs that made barb decent
If the buffs had been a week earlier no one would have batted an eye

[vast sorrel]

i agree man needed to me introduced in smaller chunks so we could adjust, start with base stats being made the same, then give it time and nerf all the stat rolls, then after seeing how the meta changed buff and nerf classes appropriately not all at once

this game is so cooked

[coral heron]

On who?

[soft nebula]

i think the change is cool, im loving the pvp, but i play this game and so many others do cause of the loot you can get. i got on and just... lost all motivation to even open a single chest or kill a single boss. fun, but shallow

[halcyon flame]

Base stats should have never been changed, just remove modifiers there’s no reason for commons to have the same (and sometimes better) stats then legendaries

[vast sorrel]

they would of for sure, that 10% to 15% move speed was a big deal

[zenith flicker]

@dawn grotto @keen onyx in this new lobby skin, please add glowing effect for this pumkins, its look too static. And delete this knock sound effect

[dapper gull]

on the game

[coarse elm]

Revert the patch, im quitting until this is fixed. game is unplayable and unenjoyable. goodbye for now.

[hazy loom]

i agree i would like the patch to be reverted this is some damn bullshit i lose....20k....TO THIS CRAP

[polar briar]

wtf has this game come to

[jolly leaf]

Honestly I'll be curious to test this hotfix without the reduced TTK (So without the -15 HP and with the armor value of every rarity based on epic and not common gear)

[hasty flare]

FLOOD THE STEAM REVIEWS WITH DOWNVOTES, SEND THE GAME RATING TO 0, SEND THE PLAYER COUNT TO 0, THATS THE ONLY WAY THE DEVS WILL CARE

[jolly leaf]

No, don't review bomb the game that's just going to hurt it on the long term. What we can all do tho is playing on the test server, if player count is higher on test server than live maybe he will understand

[hasty flare]

actually, review bombing the game is exactly what will work - point proven

thats the reason they will care, is because it will effect the game long term, so they will change the patch

[jolly leaf]

Yeah it'll work but it'll also doom the review of the game for ever. If the game ever come back from this a very bad steam review is going to hurt it a lot

[coral viper]

Its a bit like a bank run. Chilling out and giving measured feedback is probably best for the game in the long term

[hasty flare]

welp, should've thought about that before ruining the game huh

[past snow]

Anyone else really disliking this gear change?

[warped verge]

🇷 🇪 🇹 🇺 🇷 🇳 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇵 🅰️ 🇹 🇨 🇭

[glacial sphinx]

nah this is toxic and childish, let em adjust it the feedback is clear enough

[coral glen]

Hi everyone, how are you all doing? I hope you’re all navigating today’s patch with some level of patience, as I am. After the Hotfix 69, I felt compelled to share some reflections on what could potentially steer the game back to the thrilling experience that initially captured so many of us. Dark and Darker, as we know it, thrives on a raw intensity and difficulty that keeps players on their toes, making every encounter pulse with tension and excitement.

Now, with this latest update, there’s been a noticeable shift in gameplay that feels almost foreign compared to what we've come to expect. This patch doesn’t just tweak or adjust; it fundamentally alters the experience, shaping it to fit what seems to be SDF’s vision for the game. And that vision, whatever its intentions, seems to have taken the game in a direction that strays from the elements we found so gripping. With all the new changes, the core balance feels less like Dark and Darker and more like something else entirely. It’s as if, in trying to refine or elevate the experience, the essence that made the game unique has somehow slipped away.

Considering the situation, I’ve been mulling over of what could restore that sense of challenge and raw engagement that once defined the game. There are, of course, numerous potential solutions we could explore, but my suggestion for the game is: Roll back.

[warped verge]

I suggest a roll back for now until a more balanced version of the vision is out ! this version is so broken and completely ripped my reasoning and want to play the game away ! there is no reason to grind and hope for that epic pull anymore .There is no real balance between the characters anymore ! It ripped all identity away from the game making it just any other dungeon crawler out there.

[hasty flare]

they will roll back the game when we review bomb them into completely negativev steam reviews - EZ - then when they roll it back, change your steam review - EZ

worked for hell divers,,, will work again for dark and darker

[crude hill]

Guys the update have 1 day of life. The game is an early access. How can you be so visceral?

Just by your reactions i could conclude that the patch is not the problem.

I have to admit that i didn't play it yet, but even if the problem really is that big. I wouldn't be this irrational.

[hasty flare]

cool go play 1 game

[coral glen]

yeah, lol

[halcyon flame]

That’s cool and all but u should try playing the game

“Just by your reactions I can conclude that the patch is not the problem” what is then?

[crude hill]

"... i could ..."

[halcyon flame]

But you did come to the conclusion

[crude hill]

no i didn't that is why im playing a game right now. if not i wouldnt bother

[halcyon flame]

So you assumed that the patch is not the problem and ppl are complaining for nothing. Makes sense

[elfin vale]

@dawn grotto hey bro i did what you said and tried playing. i played 5 games. in 2 of them i got ran down by a barb with his weapon still out and in the other 3 i died in a single hit to nightmare mobs (im rogue). ive complained about rogue for about 1000 messages in this discord for the past year, but this is honestly and genuinely the first time i can safely say that rogue is unplayable

[crude hill]

What i said is that you are being visceral. Apart of that there is no more conclusions from me. I could accept that the patch is not good if that is the case.

[weak swan]

like, what werer the devs thinking about this patch, it removes the instentive to grind blues are better than legendarys, no point in even going to hr, class balacne is out of wack and veteran players are getting screwed @everyone

[weary imp]

Just spamming negative steam review will stop new players from coming in, not quite what we want as a community

[hasty flare]

welp, they should have considered that before disregarding all player feedback and ruining the game shrug sucks to suck, play silly games win silly prizes

[weary imp]

Nerf rogues, they are filthy rats and need to have 1hp

[low tundra]

Who grinded blues? Blues and epics were mostly useless and worthless. For 124 lobby most used green equipment and for HR legendaries.

Now rares and epics with good rolls are finally usable.

[crude hill]

"welp, they should have considered that before trying to make the game they want?" SUS

[hasty flare]

hey if this is the game they want, then they get the negative steam reviews that go with it, EZZZZZZzzzzzzz

People leaving negative reviews on a game that sucks? IM SHOCKED

[crude hill]

see? much better

[hasty flare]

so you agree with me now? cool, that was quick and ez

[crude hill]

I agree, you should write an objective review. But i don't think "disregarding all player feedback and ruining the game" is what is happening here just after 1 day of patch. Don't you?

[crude hill]

I think it is a bit unfair don't you?

[hasty flare]

we're midway through a season that people have spent WEEKS grinding on

[crude hill]

I think that is part of what an early access means don't you?

[hasty flare]

they just bricked entire INVENTORIES worth of loot and 'money' - check prices of things, everything is cratered into the ground at -50% - -80% prices overnight, theres no point looting anything, no point going down in the dungeon, theres really no point in playing anything aside from arena right now tbh

[viral wedge]

They have done this before of wiping people stuff and rerolling gear and they said thst it wouldn't happen again

[hasty flare]

just disrespected their entire player base and told us they don't care 1 bit about our time investments

and so you wanna say that us giving negative reviews on steam for a shitty game is 'too far' and 'unfair' give me a fucking break

[crude hill]

Then your review will be about bad testing practices i guess? Because we both agree they just implemented this patch a day ago.

[hasty flare]

"game was fun, dev's copmletely ruined it with last patch" ez

what dont you understand? the game is now BAD, so we leave BAD reviews 1+1=2 If game becomes good again, we change reviews to good

[crude hill]

edited: "game was fun, dev's copmletely ruined it with last patch for 1 day"

You are welcome 😉

[hasty flare]

nope

[verbal pebble]

Suggestion. Revert Change Please And Thank You

[hasty flare]

yep, just leave negative steam reviews until SDF admits he made a mistake and rolls it back,,, simple really, they will care when player base is under 10k and they see 5k new negative reviews since patch

[crude hill]

fair

[frank rune]

Almost 3.5k

[crude hill]

This is not holding the line. This is giving an indi game company with court problems the same treat for ubisoft big anti consumer practices.

[frank rune]

They have made a great game, and made a patch a VAST majority of people do not like. If people do like the game, they will leave a negative review. They have reaped what they have sowed.

[crude hill]

yes yes

i just wanted to say that this is not holding the line. totally opposite movement

[frank rune]

The point isn't to hold the line, It's to get them to change it back to a state where people want to play the game. Frankly I've uninstalled, because it sounds like they aren't changing it back.

[hasty flare]

there aint no line to hold now, areyou a dev or what? just admit they made a mistake and they reap what they sow until they fix it

[crude hill]

Why do you think so?

[frank rune]

Look at graysuns messages and you'll see why

[hasty flare]

exactly, which is precisely the reason we need to review bomb this shit as hard as possible, we need 5k negative reviews

[crude hill]

you mean this? : "This is not the end result, and we really appreciate our players who support us in this journey "

[frank rune]

https://discordapp.com/channels/988365908009447485/989065417161048084/1299247706077925459)

[crude hill]

"but I think before next season starts the game will be in a much better state"

?

[frank rune]

Doing this mid season is disrespectful to people who have grinded. I haven't even played much and this still feels like a slap to the face.

[crude hill]

But this is and early access.

Also seems logical to me trying this patch as soon as possible.

Maybe you can argue me that they lied about not trying this things mid season if they really did but not much more.

[frank rune]

We paid for it, early access is a shallow excuse. We are upset because we were told that it would a loot nerf. Not murder in broad day light. Making squire gear BETTER THEN BLUES/PURPLES/LEGENDARY

Also there's a test server that is available

[hasty flare]

early access my ass what a pathetic excuse and copium, you act like you're a paid ironmace dev

lootbuff patch was really fun, they let everyone stack legendaries/uniques and then immediately ripped them away giganerf - HILARIOUSLY BAD JOKE @keen onyx

enjoy the review bomb cuz ITS HAPPENIN

[forest gazelle]

Yo this pathc is ass

[crude hill]

Is not an excuse, is the mechanism that indie devs uses to have a better development while receiving feedback from players.

About gear i don't think, if that is really true, it will long much because they didn't told us that is what they wanted. Also don't make sense so it is probably a mistake.

[forest gazelle]

whats the poiunt of this game now, i played 5 games, i 1-2 shot every player with blow of corruption and dark reflection

what is the point actually, i have no objective now, im just spawn rushing until the lobby is wiped then i kill myself to a mob

[hasty flare]

really no point in playing now, i don't understand how the dev's fail to grasp the foundational mechanic of their game - its been the foundation of mmo's/survival/extractors since inception

[frank rune]

It is not "Early access" at this point, this is a live service game.

[crude hill]

cause?

in steam is very clear

[hasty flare]

just ignore this arminion guy, legit trolling/engagement farming , purposefully dense

[crude hill]

I like to debate online and more about this game.

[hasty flare]

cool

[frank rune]

Probably right, if an "EA" game sells cosmetics I no longer view it as such.

[hasty flare]

bingo lmao 'early access' is just a marketing tactic

[crude hill]

If ubisoft releases an early access yes, if IRONMACE who's first game is dark and darker releases an early access no.

[crude hill]

I agree Dark and Darker has always laked of strong engagement goals. They have to work on it.

But they have been a bit busy with useless balance patches since playtest.

@dawn grotto I want to say also that i admire the determination behind this game direction's commitment by devs even if it is not the way i would like the game to be (what i don't know yet).

note: I m not saying the current state is okay. Also i m not saying the opposite.

[crude hill]

This is not against early access definition. But there are reasons to think that in EA's case is a scam.

[royal plinth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBNFLwPTn4I

[meager jasper]

Whether you think the definition is valid or not I'd argue the whole concept doesn't protect a product being sold for money from criticism. And I do mean that factually. You can say to give such a game a chance but the reality is that people don't think that way even putting aside my own stance. Games that dont provide value to people simply die whether or not they're early access.

[crude hill]

True Early access in general lacks of clarity with the customers. That is a problem and bad praxis. They have to remove ambiguous term like Buy, Purchase, etc...

[meager jasper]

As for this I wholeheartedly disagree. I dont know why the current decisions have been made but I've agreed with almost nothing for a long while except the patch surrounding the steam release. Before and after then the focus on widespread and shortsighted balance changes doesn't impress me

This game has needed content updates specifically since the steam release which was the best balanced the game has ever been. Not sweeping balance changes

[crude hill]

I m talking about the recent case of graysun not talking about giving up on their vison. Not in general just this case.

[meager jasper]

If this is their vision its wrong

[crude hill]

This is another topic. I think it was more balance/symetrical but also more boring for me.

And yes they need more content updates.

[crude hill]

From success perspective maybe but from game design perspective it can't be wrong because is their game.

[crude hill]

This guy is assuming Terrence is against SDF goals. Where are the proofs?.

[crude hill]

This video is grotesque btw.

When did we started to dissociate game from their devs and normalized as a community trying to get the control of the development???.

If devs ruin dark and darker let them and stop playing it, find something new to do with your life.

Games are creative and passionate projects for god's sake. The product vision should be always at the service of dev's passion.

[smoky garnet]

revert update

[austere bramble]

There is the little thing that’s indicative that there are going to be drastic chabgss(other than SDF’s vision post)
It’s called Early access for a reason
I honestly do think tho that people either shouldn’t have access to irl money transactions or get refunded

[meager jasper]

They have said they were at odds in q and as before but we dont really know their current situation

[spark ruin]

even if its early access i still want the game to be fun

[austere bramble]

but you kinda got to expect a few extreme change

[crude hill]

in 1.0 for sure, before that you can just hope it turns fun

[meager jasper]

Game was already fun. But they didnt respect the dynamic they had.

[crude hill]

if you are talking about playtest i agree, if you talk about pre-patch i cant

[errant path]

Let's quit playing with the same old stat math over and over and sidestepping the simple fact that we haven't significantly added anything to the game in the way of skills, perks, and melee interactions that add depth to the game for the "skill expression" sdf says he wants. And as for the "stat checking" problem make gear less rare like you did last patch & realize that now more people are geared leading to less stat checking before just throwing the baby out with the bathwater because you didn't realize the success of your own patch. @keen onyx

[latent scroll]

🇸 🇩 🇫 💬 🇹 🇭 🇪 🇺 🇵 🇩 🅰️ 🇹 🇪 🇸 🇺 🇨 🇰 🇸

[glass nest]

The one thing I am getting from this entire experience is that, TTK being shorter only favors harder hitting weapons, 2 handers, and longbows/crossbows. It CHANGES nothing about skill expression.

[tiny wigeon]

So when we removing cleric from the game?
Seems like an outdated class idea, fights lasting 1-2 seconds, impossible to make a support class useful.
Impossible to heal one shots , class makes no sense in the current version of the game unless you play judgement + smite build

[spark crest]

This gear change is good opportunity to make change of random rolls. Just dreaming of below list come true.

Gear in different rarity will now masked as unidentified and request to extract with it to identify it with vendor or some sort, as well as rerolling but costy.
Some new roll to replace interaction or other shit rolls such as elemental rolls.
Or socket system already

[rugged summit]

This paves the way perfectly for Custom sockets, and enchanting.

[spark crest]

But they decided to change sth like this before test server run or full plan

[meager jasper]

Lets say they replace the system with one as complex. Thats still not something you dont do all at once and it still means ttk is too low. Ttk needs to be high for any kind of exchange to matter.

[karmic crag]

🇷 🇪 🇵🇴 🇸 🇹
🇵 🇪 🇹 🇮 🇹 🇴 🇳

https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/replace-sdf-with-terry-as-lead-designer

🇷 🇪 🇵🇴 🇸 🇹
🇵 🇪 🇹 🇮 🇹 🇴 🇳

Replace @velvet cloak with Terry

#NotMySDF #TERRY2024 #TERRY4LEAD

[latent tundra]

yo eldritch shield should get stronger if it consumes soul shards 😠

[gray crest]

ohhh poor thing

I can tell y are new just by that comment

[royal plinth]

Any reason as to actually what makes the video grotesque or are you just super insecure that your favorite game is under fire. I have played since playtest 1 and have been an active member of the community since the start. SDF has a vision that is blatantly against everything that I enjoy in the game and I'm not going to continue to sit back and support him in his destructive decisions.

God "just stop playing" and "let them ruin it" is so infuriating and out of touch and makes me question the degree to which you play this game as well as how long you have been a member of the community because to me it sounds like you either just don't give af about this game or you are inexperienced and uneducated.

[gray crest]

imagine if we let our government self destroy themselves

[rugged summit]

SDF doesn't have a destructive vision, his vision is what we liked about the game. The parts that have been hurting this game are the constast complaints, and suggestions (demands) that we have made as a community.

SDF wan'ts gear to be impactful, but not insurmountable. It's not hard. You shouldn't be able to buy victory in this game, and before this patch you really could.

[violet breach]

this. I dont want to see the game burn, i love this game. It feels rewarding and challenging. going into HR with my Friend killing bosses and then scream about the loot we got are really fond memories to me. I dont want to see this game crumble, i want to see it flourish, see others enjoy the same dopamine rush when they finally beat that boss they've been diying too for the past 2 hours or finally find that first unique after 300+ hours.

the past atch was awsome and lowering the curve of gear is also fine but they just deleted it. lowering rolls was a good decision, jewelry was too valuable, brought too much to the table. But you cant just nuke everything, what were they thinking.

[violet breach]

but you took the fun out of core aspects of the game that way. You fight bosses, open chest and venture into the dungeon to loot cool items and then use or sell them and buy other gear too cook up a build that feels good to play. They nuked everything about the process i just described. there is only pvp left, no reaso nto loot anything, no reason to create builds, just take squire gear, pick a epic or legendary 2 handed and barely enough to get over the 225 and youre good to go. there is no progress to be had, nothing to work towards

[royal plinth]

His vision is quite literally NOT what we enjoy in this game. You are wrong and so very lost in the sauce. Enjoy your watered down squire gear battle royal because anyone with gear to challenge you and give you incentive to challenge yourself just uninstalled

[lusty stream]

Ok, hot take. These changes basically take gear out of the equation, turning the gameplay experience into something very similar to a class shooter. Think tf2 and how you just w key into fights w/o much worry and go again and again. It's a fun experience, a different experience from what historically D&D has been. I do feel it betrays what has been established as a slow burn growth in skill and power as you grind for better gear and inch up confidence. I personally love class shooters, and I'm loving the patch, but I'm worried for the large portion of players that are no longer playing the game they've acclimated to and have been playing for a long time.

[royal plinth]

yep this is a watered down version of the game I love

[onyx citrus]

all these devs do is extend the time for you to text in chat because they dont want people complaining but you can't hide the truth 🤷‍♂️

[royal plinth]

I'm going back to EFT and rust. Both 1 tap shooters that somehow have more impactful gear then DnD now

[onyx citrus]

ig they want to make the game realistic but no realistic game where one shot is a thing has ever been successful

[royal plinth]

its just sdf who wants lower ttk. BRING BACK TERRY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBNFLwPTn4I

[onyx citrus]

bring back terry

[lusty stream]

I do feel that the power fantasy of being super strong when having bis gear has been whiped which removes basically all creativity from making builds and excitement for gear. Gear is now essentially a cosmetic choice, bling and fashion.

[onyx citrus]

unique gear is just rarity now not an advantage

[royal plinth]

copperlight is bis what a joke

[onyx citrus]

yes like it makes sense for a green item to be literary bis like what???????

[royal plinth]

my frostlight and centaur tail arena kit is within 10% power of a common squire kit now

[onyx citrus]

all my legendaries and now just rare items

idgaf you can implement this bullshit in below 25 normals idgaf but not in hr

[royal plinth]

yep I saw that if I want a bis arena kit now I need to sac my 200k gold kit Ive spent all wipe working towards and go mine copper. I uninstalled without playing a single game

[onyx citrus]

i main ranger and it is a strong class now but what is the fkn point of playing now? nothing literary nothing

[royal plinth]

but @dawn grotto wants me to "give it a try first" I REFUSE

[onyx citrus]

i mean if they want to make a good game there cant be just one guy making all the decisions and people are complaining for a reason. i get they want to make a better new player experience but this is just not it. and they wont revert it cause sdf is literary ignorant when it comes to listening to the community, just goes on and does his thing. they said they are nerfing random rolls but now they are nerfing static rolls like huh

[royal plinth]

he wants to "remove random rolls" aswell

[onyx citrus]

then just remove fucking rarity dude like what is gear gonna do me then

[royal plinth]

just romove chests alltogether if you want it to be a class based br

[onyx citrus]

i spend hours getting all the gear i have in my stash just for my double ms boots to become ms + interaction speed or some shit and my uniques and epics are now just cosmetic items

[onyx citrus]

just make it a battle royale yes dont make people go down or some shit but if they make it a br i am never playing this shit again

[royal plinth]

oh look it's Jaybird here to drop some WiSdOmm

[rugged summit]

You guys sounds like a bunch of junkies going through withdrawal. The level of exaggeration here is absoultely insane. People said the same thing about gear being useless when they removed +all, or when they stopped allow MS to roll on every piece.

You're all just admitting that you're addicted to the ever inflating gold values of stat rolls. That's all this is. Gear still has stat rolls, that clearly makes them better than pieces without the stat rolls.

I've got over 2.5k hours since PT2. I've this game go through many changes. This is one that was needed so damn bad it's not even funny. You're all out to lunch, chances are you will all be back playing by next week anyways, and will adjust your dopamine hits to the new values.

[rugged summit]

Lol I remember when they cried up storm about potion rarity stacking.

"OMG how am i supposed to heal with stacking potion rarities on top of eachother... what will i ever do." "OMG my gear is useless now they took away my +all stats" - "how am i supposed to stomp people without stacking 18 True damage!?!?"

[onyx citrus]

First of all this change happened mid wipe which makes no sense implement it beginning of wipe if something. Second of all removing ms from cloak and panth and jewelry was just a good change cause move-speed was meta. The thing is people actually enjoyed last patch and now they have ruined the fun of looting again. Lotting felt worth it now it just doesnt have meaning

[rugged summit]

The fact that this change happened mid-wipe is a perfectly valid complaint, and a stupid move by SDF.

He did in-fact, nuke the hell out of the value of everyone's stash (mine included)

[onyx citrus]

And you might be a person that enjoys this change but I do not. I do not want to gear stomp people and stuff like that but I just feel like uniques should have more value than commons even 0-rolled.

[rugged summit]

It should be VERY obvious that he did not intend for uniqes to roll lower base values than commons. PLEASE think for a minute.

The game feels better (barb is busted.. they definitely need to dial him back AGAIN) but every thing feels more accessible. It was NEVER the intention of this game, to allow people to buy victory.

[royal plinth]

This change is in no way comparable to the removal of +all or potion stacking. I was also there for all of that and none of it resulted in this much backlash. I would definitely be more open to these changes if they were introduced gradually or not MIDSEASON omg. I'm all for increasing the power of squire gear to help newer players thrive and explore this game but the fact that they brought unique items down to match PURPLE qual is insane and kills all incentive to play the game as an experienced player when there is literally nothing to earn besides kill count on my character @rugged summit

[onyx citrus]

idek what his intention is, the point of looter shooters is that you get better stuff as your play more. and you can get better stuff still but the difference in gear you get from playing hr inferno vs the gear you find in chests on surface is like nothing

[rugged summit]

"The problem arises when a lower gear-level player faces a higher gear-level player, which feels like a lightweight fighter competing against a heavyweight fighter. This is what I dislike the most. I want lightweight fighters to be able to achieve the punching power of a heavyweight fighter through effort. A lightweight fighter with heavyweight punching power would still have the upper hand in most cases, but occasionally, due to a major mistake, they could get knocked out by the punch of a lightweight fighter with lightweight punching power.

And I expect this will also solve the issue of only those who can dedicate a lot of time being able to compete, which ultimately reduces the pool of competitors over time."

-SDF

[royal plinth]

end of the day. I want higher ttk, sdf wants lower ttk and refuses to budge on that. I will respond accordingly

[rugged summit]

Again... the Uniques are going to be fixed before next week. guarenteed.

[onyx citrus]

i dont even know what the correct way to achieve that is but this update is not it like his vision is fine but the different right now is way too small

[royal plinth]

one tiny aspect in a sea of misses. ONE STEP FOWARD 10 STEPS BACKWARD

[rugged summit]

out of curiosity How you feel about 3rd partying?

[onyx citrus]

cause rn its lightweight vs lightweight not lightweight vs heavyweight. or maybe lightweight vs walterweight is right now

[onyx citrus]

bad, too many players are in a single match in my opinion like there should be 2 less solos and 1 less duo and 1 less trio

[royal plinth]

irrelevant to the issues I have with the game and nowhere near my biggest complaint

[onyx citrus]

let me hear about your biggest complaint

[rugged summit]

Very relevant. the Higher the TTK the worse 3rd partying becomes.

[rugged summit]

lol 1/2 the playerbase complains about empty lobbies.

[royal plinth]

3rd partying is a part of any br style map game and is tied more to player count in lobby than ttk

[rugged summit]

I don't acutally disagree with you ther. Completely acceptable part of the game, except it gets toxic when a fight takes 4 minutes.

[royal plinth]

well thats what you sign up for if you build a giga fast pea shooter ranger or something. I WANT to be able to build for the gameplay I desire

[rugged summit]

It is now MUCH easier to do that.

[royal plinth]

its not when every class has the same mov speed but can 1 or 2 shot in base hear

[rugged summit]

same MS? have you even played the patch yet?

[royal plinth]

base kit barb has 300+ mov speed no shout. fastest boots in game are now 16 mov spd. and yes