suggestion-discussion

[sullen dragon]

SUGGESTIONS:

1. BOUNTY HUNT REWARDS FOR ENEMY SOULS IF YOU EXTRACT WITH THEM OR SELL THEM TO A VENDOR SOMEHOW
2. NEW CLASS - Witch Hunter (hand crossbow + rapier) no second off weapon as default, debuff, hex curses, blood magic etc
3. NEW CLASS - Shaman (Daggers, Staff as default), support, heals, totems, auras, buffs, debuffs, blood or nature oriented damage

[dim jetty]

Bring back item caps

[topaz meadow]

HR/NORMAL LOBBY REVAMP IDEA: https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/s/7SepTxtS5s

Seems like it’s been getting positive feedback from the folks who’ve actually read it, so I’ll bump it every day that I feel up to it.

If you dig it, please vote it up on the dark and darker official suggestion page: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/507237/adventurers-pack-pass-a-hrnormal-lobby-revamp-idea

[coral wharf]

suggestion: ban teamers already useless pigs

[tranquil smelt]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508084/suggestion-for-custom-lobbytraining

[ripe turtle]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508029/i-want-some-of-the-bosses-to-be-unkillable

[graceful frost]

Dont see a reason for this. You do a single game then you no longer have default gear.

The pre level 15 lobbies are much much better

[woven barn]

add buy/sell channel to discord

[gentle linden]

can we please get a better player to player trading system?

[gentle linden]

does anybody know if that is even in the works? Something like grand exchange in runescape maybe?

[twin coral]

you should be able to ctrl drag gold tbh so you can get exact coin

[gentle linden]

i dont ever sell stuff on the market because it sucks, dont need the gold that bad

[soft apex]

in general I think the game would be healthier with projects/gold sinks and upgrades that aren't so much about winning more easily (gear upgrades with high gear diff). Dungeon puzzles that require some crafting/thinking between rounds, tavern upgrades (even just fun ones like getting drunk before the run to your own disadvantage). Prestige projects to work on over the course of the wipe...

[dim jetty]

bring back item caps

[graceful beacon]

no

[vivid summit]

That shit should be a skill like biscuits. You get 2 charges per match use em well

[green lagoon]

git gud

[magic root]

Make it so we can block with our arms. Like we can block with our forearms to protect our face and any attacks that hit do arm damage instead of head shot damage. Would be a decent nerf for rangers I’d imagine.

[small ibex]

PUT MORE MAGIC RESIST IN THE GAME IM SICK OF BASE KIT WARLOCKS AND CLERICS BEING ABLE TO TWO TAP ME WITH MAGIC STAFFS AS A GEARED FIGHTER.

[graceful beacon]

skillet

[dim jetty]

BRING BACK ITEM CAPS

[hearty lagoon]

Hello dev's I would like to suggest a full default equipment lobby if its possible, it would make it easier for noobish people like me, thank you

[livid mason]

If we were able to upgrade our base armor gear it would be good for nakeds.

[glass verge]

like caltrops

[real trellis]

Skill training is how we will get stronger even when on base kit. base kit upgrades would make low-tier upgrades worse than what you start with and I don't think they want that.

[lament sequoia]

wierd suggestion if you wear plate your draw speed and reload speed for bows is significantly slow. Also fighters and bards should have to run perk for crossbow... fighter with specialization . Draw speed for bows and reload speed slowed down alot more espcially for longbow and crossbow. Something along those lines .. Maybe make it less range meta . Something has to give with the range meta . Trade offs or something

[short heath]

Massive skill issue

[real trellis]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486522/remove-dead-stats-and-make-items-roll-as-many-stats-as-they-should-by-rarity I'm once again shilling my suggestion to make sure stats are never completely useless like cast speed on a fighter-only weapon. I've learned that some of what I say here isn't totally accurate (the magic healing thing for example) but the gist is still relevant

[midnight flint]

LOCKDOWN for chineese mafia now! normal lobby in eu at 6am is nearly empty while HR is getting filled instantly by these mutterfikkers

I will post it everyday until you lock them or ban me here

[summer locust]

Game lacks magical counters since the very beginning, so this guy is actually right. You are another kido spamming skill issue

[woven jackal]

How do we feel about a perk to make wizards spell memory 6 spells? We'll have 13 spells this patch, so it's still enough for 12 spell slots, or 6 spell with another active ability would be an option. Seems in line with the strength of a perk? 1/5 of an active, situational 2/5

[summer locust]

Btw, great job IM, You could fix the lantern problem on fighters but making fake nerf was all you did. Read your own tooltip "weapon in each hand" how is lantern classified as weapon if it does not deal any damage?

[short heath]

A Fighter wearing full plate armor shouldn't be heavily resistant to both physical and magical damage. That doesn't make sense from a balance perspective nor does it make sense from a lore perspective. Plate is inherently weak vs magic damage but strong vs physical damage in games of this genre.

[tribal robin]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508270/solve-problems-by-making-a-hardcore-and-non-hardcore-option

make 2 matchmaking pools, hardcore players and non hardcore players.
Gives more possibilities to make the game fun for both timmies and pros

[tribal robin]

not entirely true, there should be an option to become really tanky against magical AND physical damage, also having more hp helps with this.
But... there should be another con, like less attack speed or even less movement speed. or both.

I think if people want to go full tank turtle mode, they should, but let them be like a turtle xD

[short heath]

That's absolutely terrible game design, though. Sending EHP through the roof against all damage types leaving no counter so even with severely reduced attack speed and movement speed does nothing because you have literally 4x the EHP. People will run out of arrows and spells to sling at you before you get onto them and inevitably kill them without giving a care in the world about what damage they're trying to put out because you're effectively immune to all damage types. Especially if we start talking about Second Wind or a pocket Cleric. Meanwhile the negative side to having all that EHP is non-existent because you eventually will get on top of them and there's nothing they can do about it as you start swinging and they flop in 3 hits after you've pelted them with over 30 hits and dealt maybe half their hp.

[tribal robin]

I get what u say, but if a fighter has like 90% damage reduction ( which should be at least the max 100% is ofcourse immune and too much)
he should be like 90% slower too almost 😄 depending on the weight of items, and items that give both magical and physical reduction should be a bit heavier.

So then it would not matter, this slow ass fker knight can only get u like a slow zombie and for the rest u can outrun him, throw things at him and stuff like that. whilst he cant really dodge well, I think the really really slow movement and maybe attack speed would totally nullify that armor, and people would nto want it TOO much.

But yeh, xbows might still be a problem then but hey. need more items with armor penetration, or special items for these cases

[short heath]

Okay so think about any scenario outside of the ideal one you're painting where the person who isn't the 200hp Fighter with 85% PDR and MDR doesn't have an infinite amount of room to just run around and kite with. Zones exist and they close. Portals exist and you need to reach one to get out of the dungeon. The game forces you to engage into this person on their terms inevitably, and they also don't have to chase you because they have access to multiple forms of ranged weaponry.

You realize that you'd have to deal like 1000 damage to kill this man if he NEVER got healed, right? Do you understand how ridiculous that is?

Most people don't deal 1000 raw damage over the course of 3 full raids.

[tribal robin]

yes thats ridicilous and therefore there should be more items focussed on penetrating armor, also yes with not that much space it certainly can be problematic, should be solved with more armor penetrating items or things, and less MAX armor indeed.

I think people that want to tank should still be able to in a way that people think:" damn he is tanky"

But it should not be a tank that can literally waltz over u by also dealing insane damage.
so there should be a big debuff for attack speed or something aswell if u go over certain treshold of armor cap%
But yeh its a real challenge to balance this right

[short heath]

It's not a challenge to balance, you literally just have to not give them damage reduction to literally all sources of damage like I said so that there's an actual counter to the build.

If the Fighter doesn't also have high MDR, it encourages teams to be building their compositions with variety as well rather than being wholly physical or wholly magic damage. When there are damage type counters, there is viable team comp variety.

Tanks should either be full send PDR, full send MDR, or a 1/3rd-send on both. You can either reach the cap for one and not have much at all of the other, vice-versa, or you can try to round out the build but have a much lower total for both. Instead of being able to reach 85% both, with the best potential gear that is split between PDR and MDR they should only be able to reach ~50% in both.

If someone chooses to focus on max PDR they should have ~33% cap on MDR reachable by the random modifiers on gear in actual BIS gear, not just the base magic resist from white gear. Vice-versa if the focus is on MDR.

[tribal robin]

Valid points 🙂 should be better than indeed.
But I want to keep expressing that the important part in this is the fact that people want freedom,and if someone REALLY wants to go full tank even more so thatn your limits, it should be possible in my opinion, but with a bigger con.

Like every 1% extra armor reduction over 50% gives 2% less attack and movement speed, and the max should just be 65% then for the real tank spammers.

[short heath]

People can want that freedom as much as they want. That doesn't make the application not broken. It's not healthy for the game.

[tribal robin]

so that some people feel like the TANKIEST TANK, cause they neglected the perks everyone takes just so they can get that extra 5% damage reduction EVEN when its not recommend or stupid.

Some people just want to spam something 🙂

but I agree with you mostly 🙂
its just in that "balancing" and getting it right.
most games fail to keep the "freedom"

it all gets to much chess.. thats where they should be wary for when balancing it like this.
There should be wildcards

[short heath]

The problem with the concept of freedom is that 95% of players don't understand how bad it is to have that level of freedom in a game.

[dapper gull]

If they wear plate they should take 50% more damage from lightning spells

[tribal robin]

agreed, but to much "balancing" is the other side of the coin, so there should be a fair amount of freedom percentage in my opinion, to make it feel more unique u know.

So yeh, a good "middle" ground is the best here.
middle being 60-70% balancing - 30-40% freedom, or sumthing 🙂 aight just me 2 cents

[tacit cliff]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/507758/improve-rogue-dual-weilding

Tell me what you think of my rogue dagger / dual wielding buff!

Tldr; make dual weilding daggers viable by improving dagger mastery perk. Using 2xdagger (or dagger+shortsword?) adds 7 move speed making move speed penalty == to rapier. Also 2nd dagger/shortsword with perk adds 5% physical power(or +1 weapon damage)

Rapier still has clear advantages, but this would be a small buff and incentive to use dagger mastery and dual wield daggers.

[woven jackal]

I suggested a lightning mastery perk that does damage equal to a percent of armor on lightning spells. Additional damage so it doesn't scale. It feels thematic, like it reinforces class identity and fills a missing element gap

[silver dock]

Im not gonna lie, that sounds like a terrible idea as only certain armors gives mr anyways. A decent amount of plate armor has reduced mr so making it so wizards who already do busted damage do even more makes no sense.

[tribal robin]

I like, upvoted

[woven jackal]

It's mostly to reinforce the class's role of countering pdr stackers, similar to how rangers counter wizard. You'd probably have to balance the spell damage and the perk % tho

[silver dock]

I can understand that, but thats a decent amount of changing youd have to do when theyre just fine as is. A couple of magic missiles and youre already good, any more then thats over kill most times.

[thick sky]

hey guys 40 people have upvoted this suggestion, please show your support if you also agree this would be a fun content addition to the game https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/502677/gigantic-spider-mummy-boss

[narrow snow]

Please nuke and reformat the discord to be purely feedback and lfg. The discord is a cesspool atm

[short heath]

That would probably make it worse/more toxic. You'd only get comments like "get a fuckin balance team".

[floral totem]

YEA CAUSE THEY NEED TO GET A FUCKIN BALANCE TEAM DUDE

[short heath]

Trust me man, I of all people know this. Search this channel for my name.

[floral totem]

its obvious right now that the people that create the game in IM can't be the same people balacing it, they are not capable of doing so. and not beacause they lack the skills etc etc, but because they just like the game too mutch and they dont wanna ruin it. thats why they need new people with new ideas to come and work with them on the project

[short heath]

If they'd be able to pay me enough to pay my bills, I'd have inquired about a position ages ago, but the reason I'm no longer doing that line of work is because I needed to make more money.

[rigid pier]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508337/give-visual-representations-to-rarity-on-armormaybe-weapons

Don't know what you guys will think, either way, was just a thought I've been having while playing the game!

[floral totem]

i mean, 35$ normal version of the games, plus all the people that bought the game..

i think they can afford to do some hireing imo

[short heath]

They probably won't until court cases are finalized.

[floral totem]

so untill then i guess no druid no balances nothing new

but hey, still love to play with my friend

[narrow snow]

God people in this discord or so dense

[fathom bolt]

They already have

Forget where it was mentioned however, I think Graysun mentioned it at some point

Found it:

#the-tavern message

[obtuse kindle]

Perfect trinkets shouldn’t exist in regular crypts/caves. Blue should be very rare. Normal loot should be poop and HR very good as it currently is

[obtuse stone]

there should be a reason to play classes that aren't fighter, ranger, and rogue in solos

[stoic glen]

On the topic of hr and normal dungeon gear balancing.

It seems like the devs have had some concerns with the types of hear going into normal dungeons and I have to say I as a player have concerns for the health of the game overall because of the players that come in very well equipped and rolling over lobbies instead of playing in hr.

The first attempt of limiting gear rarity I think was a step in the right direction but seemed to not push those players into hr but rather away from higher rarity gear.

A proposed solution would be a "point buy" type system in which each gear rarity is given a point value for example

Green 1
Blue 2
Purple 4
Orange 6

Consumables and white gear have 0 points

In order to get I to normal dungeons your points have to be below a set number. Say 10.

The second portion of this fix would be to remove the gold requirement from hr and instead use a point requirement that slightly overlaps with normal dungeons. Maybe 8 or higher total points. At this point your gear would be your "ante" so to speak for getting into the dungeon and would be the thing of value you risk in hr rather than a fee for getting in.

[short heath]

Major problem here is that you're denying the ability for people to try to zero-to-hero in HR. I'm not a fan of ratting by any means, but there are people who want to be able to punch up from nothing legitimately, and they should be allowed to do that if they wish. If they're ratting, they're trash regardless and probably won't do anything with the gear they get from ratting anyway, so I don't mind that as annoying as it is.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472659/matchmaking-balance-calculation-suggestion

Also, there should be proficiency levels for weapons that differ from class to class. Would be a great way to help balance the power some classes have that they really shouldn't have (Fighters w/ Crossbows and/or Longbows, Bards w/ Crossbows, and Rangers being fairly effective at melee combat specifically).

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/507322/proficiency-levels-w-weapons#comment569626

[stoic glen]

I would personally be fine with that though it seems like the devs want there to be a risk so to speak in going onto high roller so if there is no ante then more players will play I'm hr even if their gear is what they risk. It could also be that If you don't meet that gear threshold you pay the ante and if you meet it you don't.

[muted linden]

i love crossbows :_)

[bright stump]

1v1 arena dueling? for testing loadouts? or some kind of combat practice area?

[heavy holly]

seems utterly insane to rebalance fighter active abilities when you can only use 2 of them i honestly don't even enjoy playing anymore due to these flip flop patches making me cringe

"diverse playstyles" proceeds to nerf unusable abilities

[stoic glen]

I would also say that zero to hero isn't a large part of people's chosen playstyle, so "major" is an overstatement and I think catering to a minority of players to the detriment of balance is a mistake.

[short heath]

It's not catering to anyone, it's just not excluding anyone. If you have the cash to pay the ante, you should be able to go to HR. Period.

Something like gear-based matchmaking should only apply to the no-ante maps for a multitude of reasons... the two main reasons being that the new player/casual player experience needs to be nowhere near as terrible as it currently is, and you still need a game mode where gear upgrades can matter more than just increasing your team's capability vs pve encounters.

If you don't change the new/casual player experience, you'll end up with the infinite loop of:

New player buys and (or casual player) starts playing, is the lowest on the totem pole
Gets rolled 900 times
Doesn't play anymore
New/casual player population dies out
The new lowest point of the totem pole becomes players who play more than casuals do but not as much as literal gigachads, no-lifers, or streamers
They start getting rolled into oblivion
They get tired of getting rolled
They quit
Game population continues in downward spiral until game dies

[stoic glen]

I would argue that my suggestion does just this by preventing gear stacked people from going into normal dungeons where new players will go. The only people who do zero to hero hr are the no lifers and streamers. The game should not cater to them. This entire response basically agreed with the premise of my two previous posts

But either way my follow up of. Either pay 100 gold to get into high roller or pay 0 gold but also have 8 gear score or higher would solve the issue of people wanting to do zero to hero in hr.

[ripe turtle]

Hmm, some of the bosses should be unkillable? https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508029/i-want-some-of-the-bosses-to-be-unkillable

[tiny wigeon]

I’m legitimately curious, what bosses can’t u kill in dungeons and dragons ?
From my experience all enemies have a CR and have stats like health , therefore can be killed. But I’m no dnd expert.
I just don’t see the devs spending resources and time to make a boss, and mechanics and room and loot, and then have him be unkillable, seems silly?

Besides aren’t bosses “unkillable” to the majority of player base anyways?

[tiny wigeon]

I think it’s hard to implement a gear cap. They tried a bit, what ended up happening was blues were more expensive then epics or legendaries..
People want to be lame and they want to get that dopamine hit from killing a naked team 🤷 , I think ppl will work around it, maybe less people , but it’s not a solution to the problem

“Oh I can’t join normals with epics? I’ll just buy all blues!”
And also there are epics that are complete trash, and blues that are near perfect bis.
I think it’s a little sad if I loot a shitty shield on my cleric and wanna use it, suddenly I gotta go high roller to use my crap shield , feels forced, but I agree that teams camping new players isn’t helping anyone

[stoic glen]

The game state resulted in NO legendaries being able to be used in normals. If you allow legendaries but not stacking high tier gear the legendary gear will still be usable and sought after, no? I don't think it's a perfect solution but it's better than it is now and it's also better than a full restriction

[obtuse stone]

honestly a matchmaking system that matches the more-geared players with other geared players in norms would be good

if you're wearing timmy gear it would match you with other timmies

[stoic glen]

That's not actually a bad idea. Matchmaking such that you are sorted by your gear score and put into lobbies with other approximately equal gear scores

[tiny wigeon]

It wasn’t just legendaries. You couldn’t use epics on normals aswell, it didn’t matter , like I said, blues were going for more then epics and legendary cause ppl wanna queue normal and stomp and be lame

[obtuse stone]

I have very little insight into how matchmaking systems actually work though, so that would be up to IM to implement

[soft nebula]

can we pleaseeee get more portals back in goblins especially in the god forsaken hr map this sucks so bad

[tiny wigeon]

This would be lovely , but there are 3 maps, two of the maps have high roller, there are 5 regions , there are only 10k active ppl.
Doing this would mean the queues will be very long , the game doesn’t have enough players to sustain this system 😦

[obtuse stone]

yeah filling lobbies is another issue that needs to be solved

[tiny wigeon]

Being stomped by legendary crew is annoying , but very long queues / empty lobbies is way worse imo

I can at least TRY and run from the stacked crew.
But if my game takes 5-10 mins to start, then has 8-10/16 players, fuck it imma head out

[soft nebula]

enable vc is pregame lobby disable previewing peopels kits

[tiny wigeon]

Can u explain the logic behind this I’m curious to know what made u think this

[soft nebula]

because talking to people in pregame lobby honestly brings so many funny interactions, but the reason people teamed up on some more geared players is because they were able to SEE their loot

[tiny wigeon]

Alright thanks

I think it was a mistake to have essentially 5 maps out when they didn’t know how their player pool was gonna be . We ta also the community that incessantly whines about having more maps. And now they want matchmaking , which is not doable with these many maps and few players and 5 regions

[soft nebula]

the map variety causes some rly shit areas sometimes that become torterous

[tiny wigeon]

Yap, and now ppl whine about ruins not having high roller and pushing for that , while simultaneously asking for matchmaking queues

Yet if the devs gave us this, it would be “queue too long, dead game”

[proven totem]

Have you guys thought maybe some sort of pipe you could smoke would be cool to see? It’d act like ale but increase another stat let’s say will for example. Is there any plan to add other items like ale that buff other stats?

[soft nebula]

see, getting high irl doesnt have rly have advantages in the quick term, while getting drunk allows you to beat up familiars faster. see how nothing would make sense with a pipe?

[proven totem]

Ah I see a pipe would just end up making you loose 15 strength or something so pointless. Makes sense now

[obtuse stone]

smoke the pipe, gain 11 knowlege for 15 seconds

after it wears off you get knowledge debuff

[proven totem]

All the wizards and cleric on overdrive for 15 seconds then a come down, would be really cool

[graceful beacon]

more portals in goblin caves please. very annoying, especially when it's late and there might only be one on a different floor

[soft apex]

the game does need more items for practical effect that actually get used in the dungeon. Pipes sure, maps and navigation aids, keys and crowbars, relics or artifacts to carry around

[stoic glen]

I think it would be cool to have a bounty system so that if you escape with a players soul heart you can sell it for a bounty. Perhaps randomly select 2-3 players per lobby that have a bounty or perhaps each time you escape a dungeon your bounty goes up slightly

[fathom bolt]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508375/warlock-base-stats-rework

[proven totem]

Agreed, it is a dungeon game after all.

[dusky ingot]

they should add a new hell module that has a demon smeltery, hot enough and pressurized in the depths to make a new alloy from cobalt and ruby bars, it would be guarded by high tier enemies making it a high risk high reward type deal, as the alloy will be used to make even better armors and or weapons

[soft apex]

yeah wow, now that's a quest... Take all your valuable ore and complete a difficult hell run carrying it

Oh, have 3 different spaced out things to interact with (bellows, furnace, molds). So a full team can process them faster.

[dusky ingot]

(tinkers construct player btw)

[proud sigil]

a purple short sword with -10 MS has 29 weapon damage, a rapier with -13ms has 30 weapon damage. A fucking horseman axe for a barb has -30 MS and 31 weapon damage. LIKE WTF

[obtuse stone]

cleric should be viable in GC (crazy idea I know)

[dusky ingot]

you're playing battle cleric wrong if you think this

[obtuse stone]

let me know when you figure out the right way to play it

[dusky ingot]

it does 80+ damage with the default flanged mace if you actually buff yourself before holding W

[obtuse stone]

let me know when you find a single competent player that will let you do that

[dusky ingot]

skill diff

[obtuse stone]

yeah the skill diff here is any player lacking the braincells to just leisurely walk away

[dusky ingot]

yapping ngl

[obtuse stone]

well that was easy, better luck next time lil brother

very strange how offended you are that cleric should be anything but submissive support kitten

[cursive sapphire]

QOL Everyone should be able to use potions and bandages while resting/bard should be able to play his instruments while resting its not unfair it gives away his position

[dusky ingot]

you were the one that was acting like cleric cannot do gc in the first place buddy, get your facts straight

[cerulean ruin]

QOL Suggestion, make it so I can equip my Weapon slots in the Lobby so I can see how much DMG I do and how much Armor I really have wearing my shield etc.
let me swap between weapon slots for information purposes please! Thanks!

[obtuse stone]

Glad we agree then. Unless you have something to add other than "hitting things deals damage"?

[white cliff]

Imagine wiping a lobby and trying to rez when you realize some random rat rogue took the heart out of your friend and died somewhere lol.

[dusky ingot]

i do not know what you are even trying to argue anymore, you have the speech skills of a 3rd grader

[white cliff]

What’s the argument?

[dusky ingot]

he was saying cleric is not viable for gc, then had a fit when i said it does 80+ damage when you use the buffs

[white cliff]

Oh Cleric is super viable, you have PFE so you don’t take mob damage, your smite build does insane damage in the current meta because of stat scaling too. Your running hybrid with agi and strength. Self healing and buffing.

[obtuse stone]

When your argument hinges on meleeing people to death on the slowest class in the game with 0 ways to catch up, it's not a very good argument

[arctic jasper]

@dawn grotto Add a Blowgun for Druid as a ranged option

[dusky ingot]

skill diff honestly, iv rolled lobbies with cleric no gear

[obtuse stone]

Not to mention the worst ranged options in the game. Don't know how else to make that more clear for you.

[white cliff]

Cleric stacks agi now, they’re not super slow lol.

[summer locust]

I read the chat every few hours and i constantly see same people trying to defend IM, like channel bots whenever someone says something bad about balance or game's ruined state. Good job paid actors

[lament parrot]

are clarities coming back?

[stoic glen]

I am that rat rogue ❤️

[glossy grove]

Idk how well this would work but to lower gear fear / risk. You can make it to where only a certain number of pieces are lost when you die in the dungeon.

[astral reef]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508387/gear-score-system
Looking for actual discussion and debate on this topic

[golden sonnet]

Please look at the tavern in the original Dungeon Defenders game. Training dummies, secret room, posters, and locked, floating items to show off loots. A++ personal tavern

[lime thunder]

what is physical power on barb

[thorny granite]

What are you guys doing about rangers? Im so sick of getting two tapped by long bows it’s been happening all day… this games becoming literally unplayable like what the fuck is their plan? Why can someone hit for barbarian damage ACROSS THE FUCJING MAP

[white cliff]

Just don’t play ruins?

[jade tartan]

it seems they are adding some kind of mmr system we will have to see how it turns out but I dont think there should be a minimum gear requirement for highroller there are already so few players in it and people rat running doesn't really effect the game in a negative way

[light stratus]

Please fix Ghost King pool not showing - shittis rediculous

Also you have not fixed buff ball meta one ucking bit

[dim jetty]

bring back item caps

[light stratus]

Also whislt im bitching about this game i love ( great job IM). Throwing axes should be a utility item and not stack damage like regular weapons so barbarians and fighters can 2-3 tap classes that are desperately trying to maintain range. They should be used to catch and slow not murder.

[slim dove]

Make the large campfires that are stationary on maps give you 'grey campfire kit' recharge bonus'
it'd be nice for free recharges but also a place to get a jump on people resting there

[livid mason]

wat do u mean? its just cleric barb so far

[dim jetty]

🇫 🇮 🇽 🇵 🇮 🇨 🇰 🇵 🇴 🇨 🇰 🇪 🇹 & 🇧 🇷 🇮 N G BAC🇰 ITEM CAPS

[dim jetty]

. 🇫 🇮 🇽 🇵 🇮 🇨 🇰 🇵 🇴 🇨 🇰 🇪 🇹 & 🇧 🇷 🇮 N G BAC🇰 ITEM CAPS

[lament orchid]

I was listening to the OnePeg podcast thingy with Terry and heard there were talks about removing the circle, in a game called Hunt: Showdown the extraction points will start making a very loud noise and give a pop up on screen saying "Extraction blocked" or something along those lines whenever there's 2 different teams close to the extraction point, this makes it very difficult to camp for someone. I think a feature along these lines would be fantastic to prevent people from finding a portal and just sitting on it waiting for some poor fella to come by, that's it, just wanted to give my 2 cents : )

[astral reef]

In a previous test they made it free and another time just 50g and they didn't like how many people were naked rogueijg into it. Like 50+ % of people in HR were naked rogue. Also, with the forced HR above a certain gear score that would also increase the amount of people in HR.

[oblique pewter]

@fierce canyon nice legendary in normal games for slay some naked and take tri blue at end big balls 😉 Pgm.

[ornate fulcrum]

in high roller if you kill another player you get their entrance fee 🙂

[glacial sphinx]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508450/highroller-fix

[wise oriole]

how do you not have someone sitting in trade chats overviewing or just an autoban on anyone saying RMB/renminbi for items in trade?

[fresh berry]

there should be way you can go default kit so we don't have to risk good gear trying trust a new group.

[ripe haven]

Oh you mean some kind of a base kit queue?

[fresh berry]

no i mean like you can put your good gear in stash and the game like you pull for your class default kit. Let say i'm a cleric. and i don't 100% trust this new group i joined. one guy is red named. so like i put my rare shirt in my chest the game should let me get cleric base kit robe. instead of going in with no shirt.

[ripe haven]

Oh I was hoping we would get back on track about base kit queues.

[echo dome]

NONE of you are real wizards, you have no wand. The wand salemans in Harry Potter says so.

[woven jackal]

Jump into a game lobby and hit return to lobby. You'll get a starter kit and lose anything you had on ya. Still, I agree we need a better way

[tribal robin]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508270/solve-problems-by-making-a-hardcore-and-non-hardcore-option

[stoic glen]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508387/gear-score-system
Vote for this then, big dog. It's a vote for implementing gear caps for normal, and gear requirements for high roller

[weak zenith]

What happened to pickpocket? Its my fav way to play rogue but havnt been on in a bit

[vernal hedge]

its bugged, invis break when you try to pickpocket

[weak zenith]

Ripppp

[shadow pebble]

It would be very nice to implement a system for changing the mail tied to the account

[languid swift]

Yeah, this doesn't give me hope that they even use that website. https://i.imgur.com/3Pvf498.png

[fierce canyon]

who ping

[haughty harbor]

is there a way to appeal a false autoban? i got a temp 3 day ban midgame for abnormaldecetion. Legit laggiest game of my life turned into not playing for 3 days

[stoic glen]

How are you dying to naked solo rogues if you have gear in hr? If you're upset about getting third partied it's arguably better to be third partied by a naked rogue you can one shot than a 3 man with gear right?

[solar falcon]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508517/ranger-overhaul-idea-since-the-class-is-boring

[stoic glen]

I don't dislike this idea. To have an ability that functions like goblin Bolas. Less damage but adds a slow. I also think that a tripwire alarm would be cool but not really useful. I think the problem with rangers is the total amount of dmg they can do from a distance In comparison to other classes. It would be better I think to give clerics and/or bards an ability that blocks projectile damage only. As of now there really is little satisfying counter play to rangers other than run at them or rogue them. This isn't to say that I think rangers are op just in a position that gives neither ranger players nor ppl that face rangers a very fun game play experience.

[elfin vale]

devs alrdy said gear cap was a bad idea and wont come back for a long time move on

just learn to use ale and fire bottles and traps, but more than anything learn to run from a fight you cant win lmao

[solar falcon]

damn that's a lot to say that has nothing to do with the content of the suggestion since the first part of the suggestion is to remove some damage and give them other shit to do

[stoic glen]

I didn't realize there was an outline of approved "state of rangers in the game" topics. Nor did I realize that you were the arbiter of what I was allowed to opine on. My apologies, sir.

[solar falcon]

I have no problem with ranger discussion but the reply had like nothing to do with what you replied to besides being about rangers

the idea of the overhaul is to give rangers more to do because even Terence thinks they are boring to play and taking away dmg which is the main complaint about the class. I'm not just after counters to the class since anyway of getting into melee with them is already a counter but changing the core issue the class.

[fathom bolt]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508375/warlock-base-stats-rework

[stoic glen]

More to the specifics of the suggestion. Do you think that making rangers generalists might put them in the same place as d&d rangers in that they aren't played cus they suck at everything? Would it be more beneficial to lean into one identity such as damage dealer? Perhaps rather than spell wheels they get a scroll wheel of utility arrows? Armor pen, poison, slow, tracking, red eye ring effect. Etc

[solar falcon]

we have enough damage dealers D&D rangers core issue is that their abilities (not something we'll ever see) like favored terrain and favered foes just made them ultra specialized at hunting down specific things and generally good at a lot of things that other classes could also do better. but the things they were really good at specific enemies and locations had an issue where a lot of campaigns just didn't line up with the rangers choices making that whole system essentially useless and all they had left was generally good at things other classes specialized in. we don't have anything of that sort to even contend with in DaD

we'll never see that specific problem here. but we do have an issue already where other classes are just getting better at using ranged weapons and utility and somehow its getting blamed on the ranger because it's ranged damage and the ranger needs to not just be that one-trick pony.

[stoic glen]

I do agree that rangers need more options, it just seems when given the choice between utility and swinging a bigger stick the player base has always chosen the big stick. But it really does seem like the utility options are just very lacking in impact for all classes so I can't say that this type of rework isn't a step in the right direction. Especially with a goodberry esque sharing of rations which I really like.

[solar falcon]

given that ranger is supposed to be "a careful astute hunter" the addition of utility spells reducing dmg output and swapping out traps from as many as you can afford to a spell limit seems like it fits the intended playstyle, listens the community complaints and moves the class to a point where the lack of dmg is replaced by team play options to make them seem viable in groups. reducing the absolute desire for clerics and bards by having a good middle ground pick

[stoic glen]

Much as I hate to say (as a rogue main) it there are also very few ways around rogue stealth and giving rangers something to do about stealth rogues would probably reduce the amount of complaints about solo rogues and also help with that identity. It would have to be very carefully implemented though as invis is basically the only good thing about rogues.

In any case you've gotten my vote

[solar falcon]

i mean we already have the tracker perk but almost no one uses it, i could see a hunters mark type deal.

[astral reef]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508387/gear-score-system I'd love to actually discuss what people think about this. Feel free to leave comments on the post for me to reply to

[manic orbit]

ironmace needs to have a reason for people to go into high roller with gear rather than going normal with extremely bis kits. ik rn there are no leaderboards so there isnt a huge incentive but i think a system that gives cosmetics you can equip to your name (something like badges or maybe this is what happens when progression comes out) but getting nontangible rewards for playing high roller. to compare this to other games that have a "competitive", they reward players with skins, or sprays, or player icons, etc. and having something that doesnt give a distinct advantage but something to show off with would make it so players think "oh if i go into high roller and get kills on players or pve i can work on ____stat for my emblem" or whatever they chose to implement. this also encourages the people who NEVER go hr to want to go and with more people going there is a reason to kit in hr

[languid swift]

I don't think incentivizing players to go to HR will work. People are going to feel good stomping low gears, so they'll do it.

[formal wadi]

Ironmace is actually working on this. If you watched Onepeg's stream last night the Nightmare Skeleton will be a final reward for playing lots of Highroller

[prime thicket]

@languid swift a good chunk of people don't go HR, because it's a chore to consistently do decent runs... don't get me wrong, it is rewarding, has good loot etc., but 300g admission compared to 0g ...

[echo wharf]

ranger still busted and loving it

[long cypress]

Something that I thought of while watching recap of stuff, is they plan to add sort of private quarters, aka “hideout” it seems, but anyone know if any thoughts about a guild and guild hall system have been considered by the team at IM before?

[stoic glen]

I had the idea of gear requirements that might help with this issue. https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508387/gear-score-system

[woven jackal]

Adjust MM to do less damage. During the charge, at 10%, 20%, 30%, etc, one of your missiles locks onto what you're aiming at. If nothing, it shoots like it does now, minus homing. When you fire MM, they start out going in the direction you aim, then slowly homing more and more to whatever they locked on to.

[stone violet]

DO SOMETHING WITH TEAMING UP IN GOBLIN CAVES]

[analog dirge]

ALR heres what belive would be pretty good. add a wand to the game magic based clases can use in there primary hand. it can have a short range and medium cast speed bc its a wand but we would be able to put those magical healing lanterns to use along with magic damage bonues lanters. think of the things warlocks and wizads could do.

[lament sequoia]

Suggestion rework ms ....

[dusky kernel]

Now I don’t think this is a good idea but do you think if there was a gear tax for normals (0g white/green, 10g per blue, 15g per purple, etc) that would disincentivise people enough from trying to stomp low gears?

[next wharf]

MMR is the worst idea you guys have had yet, you are gonna end up pleasing neither side of the debate and the juicers are gonna be pissed they have to play their own kind and the timmies are still gonna be screwed when people learn to game the system. And when nothing continues to be done about the gear gap situation.

[dusky kernel]

Personally, looking forward to iron mace trying out MMR
Just hoping I don’t gotta hear anyone argue about it anymore sooner rather than later

[empty igloo]

where do i report teaming ?

[next wharf]

Yeah the loose gear cap was better. There is zero excuse why you need to bring purples into normal lobbies. They're usually just scared of the red skeleton

[outer lotus]

Can we have a map where u cant take anything other than starting gear? Im trynna pvp naked against naked

[abstract swallow]

budget purples have always been a good thing especially for weapon variety, and no amount of griping about gear will change that

[stoic glen]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508387/gear-score-system if gear based matchmaking gets your juices flowing up vote this and let's get it on IMs radar

Basically this would set it so that each gear has a point rating
And the total number of your gear points can't exceed a set number for you to enter normals.

Want to come in with a demons glee? That's fine but you gotta do it with base armor.

[sly sigil]

It was stressed and repeated several times that the rewards seen in the mock up were not going to be the actual rewards.

[formal wadi]

The point is that there will be rewards for going into Highroller now

[pliant quiver]

Has there been any official discussion of leveling past 20? I feel like further leveling would incentivize killing mobs over just hunting other players.

[short heath]

Gear differential is significantly less than what it used to be. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge proponent for making the casual game mode experience more fair, specifically to help with new player and casual player retention, but MMR isn't a bad thing by any means if it is done well. The majority of HR grinders won't care about the change, and the timmies will actually be able to learn the game so they can eventually become non-timmies. The ONLY people who will be hurt by any form of MMR change will be the people who are intentionally overgearing so they can pubstomp, which is a good thing, because it makes them either go through more hoops to do what they're already doing, or they'll get skill checked and start losing games, and hopefully lose interest in the game and leave... which is good because those people are toxic anyway.

[next wharf]

shift + enter to indent long messages

[light hound]

And your better solution issss?

The key here is that they are seeing the data tell them that this is the path, which I expected months ago. The shadow-mmr system they already have in place is probably already giving them a lot of favorable data.

[floral totem]

suggestion: stop making this a hardcore extraction game and make it a deathmatch etc etc etc game. why? cause you're not able to balance shit 🙂

[peak rock]

Probably better till they have everything ready in terms of content and mechanics before implementing a serious MMR/Ranked system. Game is still pretty early in development and HR barely has any content so incentives for competing in general are pretty low

[dusky ingot]

unique items

[peak rock]

That's all it takes to satisfy HR loop?

[dusky ingot]

rawr

[light hound]

People are allergic to the acronym MM lol. A more robust MM system would only help the game experience across the board. I'm pretty sure a lot of us want the new player experience that the playtests offered, but we forget that the average skill level is way higher than it was in the playtests, we want noobs to be in lobbies with other people who don't know what they're doing

Unless, of course, you think the fun in the game is meant to be smashing grey gear Timmies as a high tier player which gets old after 10 minutes.

[dusky ingot]

i love when people complain about there being a match making system, because then i know who cannot compete on their own skill level and need to fight lower people :3

when halo infinite added match making it was funny to see all the no lifes complain that they can no longer roll matches without effort

[light hound]

Exactly, and they're the same type of people who constantly say "it's a hardcore game, it's a hardcore game" and then they immediately que up in Normals with a full kit (to play cozy) instead of going to HR to make it "hardcore"

[peak rock]

There's pros and cons for MMR. Mostly depends on what kind of community the Devs want. Also believing that the only reason people wouldn't want it just so they can stay on top of "timmies" sort of shows how misinformed/bandwagon susceptible game communities (especially early access) are and a great example of why devs take complaints with a grain of salt.

[dusky ingot]

though, to be fair nightmare enemies are BS and should be balanced in someway imo, lost many high pdr armor sets because one showed up and 2 tapped me within the span of 1 second

[light hound]

True, pve is pretty op in HR. It's increase PVE difficulty + increased PVP difficulty

[dusky ingot]

i think the devs just do not know how to make a good pve encounter whatsoever, look at champions and wraiths as an example, they are very hard if not impossible on some classes to 1v1 fairly, you always need to cheese them

same with centaur, berserker and sometimes demon bat

[light hound]

That was a bit directionless, I'm saying there isn't really a good reason to not support a matchmaking system in a game that's so heavy on PVP (considering the fact in many games you're forced into combat due to the circle)

[dusky ingot]

i think they could get by without mmr much better if the map was bigger, with no zone so that you can actually explore

[light hound]

I actually tested a set of games recently paying close attention to what it would be like for a new player, and 50%+ of the games, I didn't get a blue portal near me and was forced through a bunch of PVP, winning 1-2 straight fights, to eventually be blocked by a team that outnumbered/outgeared in our way for an escape, so PVP was pretty much unavoidable for a majority of the games

[peak rock]

Put simply, game is still very early in development where things like content and mechanic takes priority and how players with disagreeing views just play off opposing views. for example MMR vs no MMR making what could be a useful conversation into name calling/point fingers contest ("They dont want MMR because they just want to pubstomp").

Devs usually take complaints with little value like name calling and shade throwing with a grain a salt

[dusky ingot]

the real update we all want is the cuddling update, so that i can cuddle the homies at a campfire :3

[short heath]

E x a c t l y

[light hound]

Well that's true for a lot of people here - I spoke with a number of people on here who are against MM systems in the game and it boiled down to them not wanting to give up being the Apex predator in the lobby because the game feels good to them that way, and they reason why it's an acceptable new player experience because they also needed to go through that phase (in the playtest era which is very much different to now). Basically saying it's a hardcore game and that's the way it should be

[short heath]

"I suffered, therefore you should too" is a shit mentality.

The game can still be considered as hardcore without literally sucking to start.

[peak rock]

Sounds like trolls. One of the main reasons is how it'll change the direction of the game before content and mechanics that they announced aren't solidifed yet so MMR might be done completely differently. For example there's still time to think about things like multiple modes for each map or arena type matches and MMR would spoil the freedom they have atm and future updates would have to include MMR system updates everytime. If anyone actually said it's cause they want to pubstomp they're trolling or just as equally misinformed.

Best example is when they added Gear score lobbies and made a whole tier of items useless, showing how problematic lack of content for HR is, and just changed the problem overall to a new one with BIS pubstompers

The meta for gear score lobbies and MMR is to wait for BIS in trade instead of actually playing for your gear

[short heath]

This isn't true, though. That's an artificial component that was generated by the playerbase. Purple items didn't all of a sudden become useless after not changing at all, they became useless because people wanted to keep rolling lobbies easily and they couldn't do that with purples anymore. Purples became devalued, not useless, and they only became devalued because people don't run HR enough to know left from right about the game.

[peak rock]

That's what Isaid. It casued more problems than fixing any

[short heath]

That's not a problem.

[light hound]

Obviously, they don't blatantly say "I want to pubstomp", they think more highly of themselves. They think that they're abusing issues with the game (like the lvl1-lvl15 matchmaking) because they are "morally" demonstrating that it's a broken system by pubstomping. Clearly you can bring attention to an issue without abusing it, it's just their way of justifying the fact they like having low player resistance in their games.

I assume HR is going to become more attractive as they add a bunch of ranking rewards, crafting, and quests etc to highroller, but that doesn't stop a bunch of people ruining the new player experience for momentary fun - a solid MM system will help a lot with this (all you need is to make it hard enough to manipulate that 95% of people don't bother)

[short heath]

The problem is nobody having the balls to run HR or go against anyone with a similar gear set.

[peak rock]

There's like no content in HR other than named items. It's a problem to have great gear and the only use for it is to run a harder dungeon for little to no reason. Games not complete enough for that

[short heath]

I bought purples for half the price of blues during that patch and ran HR instead of playing no-ante. Maybe if people got their heads out of their asses and ran HR more they wouldn't be as afraid of the pve and would get better at pvp, because they'd be practicing both more and with appropriately tiered items.

[light hound]

If the PVE was easier in highroller, people would probably run it a lot more - there's an expensive learning curve to even survive it

[short heath]

Pve isn't hard in HR

Legit the only hard things to kill in HR are bosses if you haven't ran them and MAYBE nightmare axe skeletons when you don't cheese them.

[light hound]

I think the PVE probably kills a lot of people in HR - wonder if they have data on that available

[peak rock]

Same except HR lobbies were half of the time empty and it was basically mostly PVE which isn't that fun especially when the gear you get can only be used on that one empty, rewardless dungeon.

[short heath]

I'd be willing to put money that the amount of pve deaths in no-ante matches is literally dozens of times higher than that of HR pve deaths.

[peak rock]

I think the rewards need to be better. when more content is released it'll make more sense to run HR. They're adding quests soon I hear whcih is very good for incentivising HR runs

[light hound]

On-mass they'll need strong incentives. Occasional free runs, HR-only talent tree experience, HR quests, etc etc

[peak rock]

See if this stuff was added and fleshed out it'll make sense for some kind off MMR based lobby but atm is very barebones and will divide the communty like last time

[short heath]

They definitely need to have incentives, but incentives will never be the driving factor for reducing heavily overgeared players from trying to effortlessly run through no-ante lobbies.

[light hound]

Could be - I know that single player if very challenging for some rooms in Inferno HR (if you don't know all the spots). Which ushers in the thought of the need for a LFG system that makes going in 3man way easier. Very small amount of people have the friends to do 3s

[light hound]

Yeah, IMO MM is the cleanest way to handle that - perhaps lightly weighted on gear average so you play against players who are around your skill level with gear that's a bit closer to your set than greys (bigger rewards for killing players, but also keeps chance of dying within the realm of possibility). "lightly weighted"

[tidal badger]

It would be nice to have vocal channel inside room who're language specific so we could be able to find people already in game speaking our tongue easier. Thanks.

[vital sage]

Probably been said a million times but I'm technically new (played the open beta thing when it was on steam)

Characters should be tied to your account name so that you can freely name your characters. Having to name every single class character something unique is kind of infuriating and I believe will cause more frustration rather then engagement.

[ashen apex]

add trading between toons like greed is good plz.

[cursive sapphire]

if multiclasses are too much i hope we could use 2 more skillslots

[ember crow]

gear score lobbies for people learning to play

[vast sorrel]

Red portal to the under dark in goblin caves so we can fight Thick dark elf priestesses!!

[light hound]

If you're making content you probably like it because you can be more covert, but yeah, I don't think it's necessary to have multiple names - maybe for roleplay

[ruby pendant]

Remove the ability for people to aim with a helmet on their face with a crossbow

[primal skiff]

https://youtube.com/shorts/LrirI22aJFw?si=F0l9Wl2T2k4m--Gl

Reward us for platforming in DaD 😄 #rogueDoubleJumpisFun

[primal skiff]

i like this

[vernal helm]

Does anyone else think that holy aura could use with a buff?

[quartz jetty]

I agree. make it +150 armor and magic resist

[vernal helm]

DAmn I was thinking like 50 max

[late hamlet]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508623/guildclans-warsdungeon-leaderseason-rewardsetc

Go look and vote if you like please

[radiant agate]

Non trader queue please

[late hamlet]

Works better if you vote on the website

[vital sage]

Well Dark Souls for example you can have whatever name for each character you make but it's all tied to your steam account

I know it's not a completely multiplayer game but I think the logic applies

[upbeat parcel]

BRO WHY CAN FIGHTER USE CROSSBOWS, BOWS, AND THROWING AXES, ITS TOO MUCH. thats why everyone is playing fighter and nothing els because they can use anything and ive come to realize that most of this game revolves around ranged weapons nowadays. The ranger class is already OP enough why would you give more ranged weapons out to other classes. I say take away crossbows and bows from fighters so that people will start playing other classes and even out the diversity of other classes joining lobbies rather having 80% fighter class lobbies.

[narrow yacht]

idk but something needs to be done about the gear dispersity in norms. it makes no sense that someone who is new or doesnt have 18 hours a day to play this game to run up against people who have BIS and literally 1-2 shot them. i understand this is a hardcore game but there is no counter play to people who have BIS. whether it be a gear score or MMR something needs to be done. the state that the game is in right now is pushing casuals and new people away and that just leaves the current player base to get stagnate and eventually die off

[inland bobcat]

As they have mentioned the room you would be able to decorate in the tavern. I think it would be cool to be able to find things in the dungeon to put in your room or craft from monster parts, ex mounted cokatrice head, artwork, banners, crowns.

Armor stands to have sets of armor and weapons to swap with

[urban apex]

spawning into high roller and having like 20 seconds to clear a bunch of mobs is absolutely ridiculous and needs to be fixed i can’t even tell you how many times a spawn far from circle has killed me

[dim jetty]

circle closes way too fast. such bad design

[lone crescent]

The first circle is too fast, when i spawn far i W key every mob without looting and still barely reach the zone

[dim jetty]

This company caters to streamers rather than their common players. Streamers make up a minority of the player base, but they heed their feedback much more significantly than the general feedback of the players.

test

[soft apex]

HR with no circle would be interesting, but I think the modules and monsters maybe aren't good enough without the BR circle time pressure... The BR circle is not fun from the PvE player perspective, but without it you have all the time in the world to experience the fairly limited and janky PvE

Many of the modules are kind of clever traps to kill players who don't have them memorized yet, but then they can't have any dynamic elements so it gets boring once you learn an exploit that works for each of them

[slim dove]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508656/have-stationary-campfires-placed-on-the-map-that-offers-grey-campfire-kit-boosts

[twilit anvil]

I say click F to light it and it has a cooldown so it's not always on (similar to a shrine)

[indigo egret]

Between the person who plays 1 hour a week and dies to the first skeleton they see vs the person who plays for 8 hours a day and can actually provide feedback on game mechanics who would you listen to?

[teal torrent]

for sure I would listen to the player that says axe and spear skelly are OP, ghost king is impossible since he can one shot you with the impossible jump, lich king keeps wiping my party when we do the blue circle mechanic so it must be bugged, warlord or ( the melee lich ) is hard cuz for no reason people get locked in a cell impossible to remove, so they are basically dead... did I miss anything ? /sarcasm.

[twilit anvil]

The people who play in the middle who pay ironmace's bills

[tulip venture]

@short heath what’s up?

[short heath]

Harsh reality is that the top 1-2% of players in any game pay out more for game devs than anyone else now that we live in an era where people are streaming for a living, which provides them with free advertising as well as the in-game purchases they'll make just the same as anyone in the middle... so companies do tend to cater to the top, even though they really shouldn't as much as they do.

[tulip venture]

Damn go off queen 🤴

[short heath]

Mobile problems

[short heath]

Balance discussions should revolve around top end, matchmaking discussions should revolve around player retention on the bottom end. People can't get that differentiation through their heads most of the time because the player retention problems being solved inevitably effects players who don't fall into the category of players who aren't on the cusp of leaving the game due to the problems they're creating by overgearing and underqueueing so they can farm lobbies easily either for clout or because that's the only way they feel good about themselves. Hopefully a form of matchmaking will finally skill check these kind of toxic players into quitting. The game will be better without em.

[vernal hedge]

I know that adding another queue to the game isn’t ideal with the player base currently.
But fuck would I really enjoy if they decided to experiment with a ruins hr which basing off the questions they answered in recent qna’s there should be quite some people that would like this too

[graceful beacon]

don't clear a bunch of mobs. clear just a little, bait out a swing, and run to zone

[jade tartan]

that still relies pretty heavily on where you spawn and what class you are if you have low interaction speed you arent getting that door open before the skelly swings again

[graceful beacon]

I've never had this issue and I'm a cleric... slowest interaction speed I'm pretty sure

[jade tartan]

good for you

[graceful beacon]

I'm saying maybe it's not a game issue

[vernal hedge]

It’s not, it’s hr skill curve issue

[runic musk]

has anyone suggested an in raid merchant like a goblin who sells some stuff for like quests or unique pots

[slim dove]

nah son, Warlocks indefinitely slower. any weapon is faster than that stick. and even with a blue falchion you're not getting anywhere fast wit hMUCH less HP or defense than a Cleric does

[tacit zinc]

they're talking about interaction speed which cleric has slower interaction speed.

[soft nebula]

please revert goblin caves portal change, it barely feels like its even about loot or pvp or pve but just being able to FIND a portal in the maze of layers, super unfun rn

[cedar ether]

Buy better servers.

[cerulean fossil]

Permadeath que, upon your character's death, it is permanently deleted. No pre-lobby, leaving you unaware of the number and strength of opponents within the dungeon.
I bet this was suggested before, but just been having fun with going zero to hero and seeing how far can I get my character. Even feeling attached and sad after they die 😄

[obtuse stone]

all bows and crossbows should have an additional -20 movespeed debuff

and longer swap time. If you're using a ranged weapon you should be committed to fighting from range

[fossil bridge]

Does anyone know why everything is already rapidly dropping in price?

[ripe turtle]

I'm not a fan of MMR right now. I'm goin to the GC normal just chilling with my default gear. Then out of nowhere this geared Fighter killed me with a blue longsword and a crossbow. It's just BS.

[elfin vale]

complaining about blue gear is crazy, thats mega weenie mode

[ripe turtle]

I wanna see you try to kill a sweaty and geared Fighter player with a junk gear only. Meaning no extra items, no good weapons etc.

[elfin vale]

yea, easily as wizard warlock ranger barbarian and slayer fighter lmao

[elfin vale]

u called a guy in normal gob caves with a blue LONGSWORD sweaty, theres literally no point interacting my bad

[tacit cliff]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/507758/improve-rogue-dual-weilding

Tell me what you think of my rogue dagger / dual wielding buff!

Tldr; make dual weilding daggers viable by improving dagger mastery perk. Using 2xdagger (or dagger+shortsword?) adds 7 move speed making move speed penalty == to rapier. Also 2nd dagger/shortsword with perk adds 5% physical power(or +1 weapon damage)

Rapier still has clear advantages, but this would be a small buff and incentive to use dagger mastery and dual wield daggers.

[dim jetty]

Sorry your point is irrelevant. Just because someone doesn't play 8 hours a day doesn't make them bad at the game. Feel free to try again though.

[elfin vale]

uuhh im pretty sure it literally does mean that in a hardcore extractor where experience is everything. this isnt checkers or uno big guy

[dim jetty]

Your reading comprehension is lacking good sir. Please reread and try again.

[elfin vale]

i dont think reading anything more from your username is good for me 🥺 im not saying blindly follow streamers, bc they are players that have biases, but i also wont take away from streamers generally knowing much more about a game and being better on average at the game. thats what experience is and thats what putting in the hours means. they should have a say considering the game is their job, i think they know it pretty well

[soft apex]

Ignoring the feedback of players with low hours is very much choosing to stunt your game and let it die. Ignoring the feedback of players with high hours is disregarding how your game is actually played in the long term. It's a false binary, you don't choose one or the other.

the original argument suggested that you did have to choose, but yeah only because they wanted to ignore some feedback selectively.

[stoic glen]

Can we get statistics from the early access patch like we did from the playtest? Like play rate kill rate escape rate down rate etc

[coral heron]

I definatly think the stat split is not a good idea. We alredy have a lot of stats to balance. Especialy fora magic mele like warlock and cleric. If they are serious about the split, they need offensive stats and defensive stats, and for gear to get one of each instead one or the other. Regardless, don't think the stat split will do anything other than hurt play quality.

[peak rock]

This was my point before with alot of "feedback" which mostly ignores or undermines opposing feedback making them less constructive and feel more like complaints or troll comments

[fathom bolt]

Character stats are probably going to need to be reworked across the board, so it might even be easier to get the stats you need depending on how it’s implemented

[coral heron]

If that's the case, then I'm good. Just as gear is now, I don't think the split is viable. A gear rework and the skill tree at the same time would be king 👑, but probably won't happen. Just figure if they do a stat rework before the skill tree, they will just probably have to rework again later at the skill tree.

[soft apex]

I think HP and damage dealt are both powerful enough to be their own stat. Move Speed is very good as well, action speed is powerful but I do wonder if that's the one which falls too far behind. The magnitudes on the attributes and how much you can customize towards one or the other are very meaningful details but I don't think splitting into more attributes is bad.

In fact, I would go further to say that if the only things enchantments did were attributes, having as many as 10 of them might be fine. Right now the attribute sub-elements and arbitrary extras like added damage and added healing require reading up on how they work (and not within the game UI), I could see removing those entirely in favor of character-sheet stuff.

[hybrid ermine]

unban the pregnant man emoji @prime latch @upper mesa @magic yacht

[patent mauve]

Let luck potions be in the drop table in game

[magic yacht]

It was likely done for a reason, Id contact a TM

[outer lotus]

Facts! Who the hell is spending 150 in one

[frosty juniper]

Dropping a suggestion on making the game a little more hardcore for everyone: Boost recoverable health to 80% of damage taken, and make it so you can only heal recoverable health. Campfire/pots/cleric heals only take you to pink max health. Makes it so one team cannot clear an entire lobby without big risk

Fixes alot of issues with timmy stomping too because if timmys do some damage on you the third timmy might kill ya

After a big fight a team is less likely to want to take another one since their max health is now lower.

Maybe even 90% of health recoverable, but having taken damage should imo be something you have to carry the rest of the raid

even makes leaderboard harder

[dim jetty]

Yikes. Your logic is fallible at best. Streamers literally have their own interests in mind. The point of streaming is to make money. Really think about that. Most streamers will lobby for what benefits them, I.E. asking for changes which benefit players who primarily put in way more hours than most.

[shadow plinth]

The reddit moderator has spoken.

[dim jetty]

Shouldn't you be streaming?

[graceful beacon]

go away tmo!!!

[graceful beacon]

what does this mean?
@slim dove I mean interaction speed

[coral heron]

I agree, with what seems to be the spirit of this. i think it would be better to have either pure stats, or small stat pool with specialty bonus'. ie like you said 10 stats, or a base 5 like diablo with lots of modifiers. i think the way the modifiers are so randomly rolled makes it a problem. like magic damage on on barb and fighter gear (have seen too often.) another answer to the mix they have now is if they made stat and attribute roles fit classes, and also have categories'. ie barb items can only get barb stats, and you get 1 defensive and 1 offensive stat or attribute per item level

[vernal hedge]

skill issue essentialy, he doesnt know how to clear mobs that can be done in default gear so game mode must be made easier

[graceful beacon]

don't even have to clear lmao, you can just run past enemies to zone

[vernal hedge]

oh yah now im remebering you gave him the cleric example right?

[graceful beacon]

YA, you can do that with practically any class

[patent mauve]

I buy the 150g luck potion in HR, but I would love for the green one to drop in normals even if it's a small chance.
Luck is underated but I don't like that only the Bard has the option to get it for free.

[soft apex]

It isn't explicitly wrong to have your loot system spit out mostly unuseable items, it's a common design practice to draw players in by getting them to discriminate between good and bad combinations of effects in the context of the game. Currently it's propping up the looting part of the game a fair bit, since there isn't any other design at play to make scrounging through chests fun (though many others do exist).

Though I will say that I don't... like it, or want it, and I won't really stick with the game if random modifiers stay the way they are. I've played enough games that respected player focus on looting rather than player focus on loot to know that I should drop this game if it stays this way. They say there is a sucker born every minute though...

[coral heron]

I can see what your saying with health and str being same, though I still dont like it. maybe modify str to also do knock back and vitality to do resting hp regain. I think agi is a bad move to change. If its just movement speed or attack speed, then those base modifiers (+ movement speed or + action speed) are more powerful then the rate the agi and dex give movement and attack when taking up the spot on the item roll. To me the think that made stats better then just rollinf a % increase was that they covered multiple effects, take that away and I think you kill stat roles. I still think str is a bad move too, though think your point there has merit, I am just a flat no on the agi lol.

[soft apex]

It's totally valid not to like spread out stats, I've seen tons of players that really like games where they can mono-stat (which is to say, focus exclusively on stacking one thing). Not everyone loves this though, in Dark and Darker they can probably use class differences to support both playstyles? Though their darksouls-school of attribute design is weird in this way, for example Barbarians are mono-stat characters, but the attribute they need to stack at all costs is Agility.

[coral heron]

I am not nessarily against hyper random loot, its more items rolling completely unusable stats on class spefic gear i find pevish. I am always weary of the boarderlands loop of tones of stats and tones of random, but few good combinations. I think making gear too restricted in a gear heavy game will just tilt the balance toward better players. the harder it is to get better gear, the more the game will be captured by stacked players. i think their needs to be seem random roles, not completely random, so gear is more consistent across all levels, giving new, low level, les-skilled, and midrange players a better chance and experience over all. don't want a game ruled by the top % of players that have forever to get these excellent rolls.

[ruby breach]

Make a 1v1 map with 1 static portal where people cant team, and the delay between lodding into lobby is 2-5 minutes so the bad actors have a hard time farming it for nefarious purposes

people with god sets can have there fair fight

[coral heron]

i get what your saying though, cant be easy, has to require a learning curve, needs to reward effort. all for all of that.

i agree with you on the random modifiers in context of not wanting to stick around if this is what's up lol/

[coral heron]

i think your spot on here. i think diablo 1 did this balance well of modifiers and core stats, if they (DnD) strike a good balance, we could make some truly awesome builds.

[soft apex]

yeah, I mean personally I uh... Would be very happy with item design more like DayZ Mod, where some rare outliers exist but ultimately it's easy to have a kit that lets you play the game, and the focus is more on utility and ever changing objectives. So that is to say, I'd prefer if there were no random modifiers, and more diverse items with clear and useful effects to find in the dungeon. But I'm probably deep in the minority there.

or on the more FPS RPG side, Vermintide II had items with random modifiers but was very respectful about it with every modifier having a notable effect on gameplay. A game with item balance like that is awesome for experimentation and build diversity, even though it doesn't narrow down to a single leverage point for powering up your character.

[dim jetty]

😦

[elfin vale]

weirdo, aquire job

[quartz jetty]

L take lol

[dim jetty]

Nice. You lost the debate and can't think of anything to say, so you resort to personal insults. 🙂

[dim jetty]

😴

[graceful beacon]

man why is this chat always like this

[elfin vale]

delulu boys rise up, streamers are LOBBYING for their best interests lmfao u think they are smart enough let alone care enough to think that far ahead and do shit like that? theyre just playing the game like anyone else, only they have a heavier weight opinion and are generally more knowledgeable and skillful than average. its never that deep or serious

[past tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/naruto-naruto-fortnite-naruto-l-fortnite-naruto-fortnite-dance-fortnite-dance-gif-23955255

[dim jetty]

Never said it was deep or serious bro. It's a game. I'm just stating it like it is. The fact that you're so triggered by it is just confirming exactly what I'm saying. If it's not that deep and serious to you, then let it go and agree to disagree like an adult.

[elfin vale]

L

[dim jetty]

Thanks bro.

[forest pine]

They should make a ability for the ranger where you get on ur knees and blow ur teammates for health

[hushed gate]

Agreed

[fathom bolt]

Agreed

[dry flare]

LMAOOOOO

[ruby kestrel]

instead of the circle make the ice map be based around heat sources and have some of them go out over time in certain outer modules to push everyone closer to eachother.

or maybe make the heat sources go out in random patterns to give a different play style each time

maybe they could go out in the center and push everyone into a big ring one game then the next game they might go out in the top and bottom modules and push everyone into the middle row

maybe heat wouldnt be used in that way but I think on the ice map heat should take play.

[coral heron]

if the devs do this i will be very happy as well.

[coral heron]

I agree, both on Vermintide and the larger concept. respectful rolls is a great way to phrase it. something usable in some capacity, not just junk. like barb gear with magic damage XD

[topaz meadow]

HR/NORMAL LOBBY REVAMP IDEA: https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/s/7SepTxtS5s

Seems like it’s been getting positive feedback from the folks who’ve actually read it, so I’ll bump it every day that I feel up to it.

If you dig it, please vote it up on the dark and darker official suggestion page: https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/507237/adventurers-pack-pass-a-hrnormal-lobby-revamp-idea

[hardy vector]

double the price of throwables

[visual violet]

bro wants the game unplayable bc he cant extract one tme

[obtuse stone]

all ranged weapons should have significantly lower movespeed

[light stratus]

I wonder what went trhough the devs mind when they were "balancing" achiles strike - It never wears off, If it hits a shield block you can still just apply on next hit anyway, you can use it on every single throwable, and a bonus its loud as fuck when someone hits you with one

[brazen lynx]

please bring back lvled or up to rare items lobbies back!!!!!! pleaseeeeeee

[uneven prism]

Atm they have implemented an mmr system (still being tested) to try and combat purple gears stomping greys

[brazen lynx]

[graceful beacon]

gear cap bad!!!!!

[brazen lynx]

lol wut...

[obtuse stone]

I think rangers shouldn't be rewarded for aiming badly with a slow that is stronger than earthquake.

[hard perch]

Dark and Darker feels like it has two different games in one. An adventure kill the BBE guy and a battel royale. It looks hard to make the two together. May I Suggest two different game modes that a newly made character needs to pick between I.E Join the adventures Guild or be Independent.
one of the modes is like it is now but tuned for the PvP experience like death cam only follows your killer and things like this .
The other game mode a more PvE experience harder Mobs, less Players, more levels, longer games. Think of a game where there are only 4 teams of 3 … there are 3-5 levels to go down and you need to beat a boss to open the down portals and you go strait to the next level no waiting. Outs are hard to find but the game is longer. And the Mobs are Very Hard …like .. the mummy casts locust swarm, 6 spiders to a pot , the skeleton champ alerts all nearby Mobs to you, Wolfs can jump walls , stone golem cast earthquake, wrath can teleport, big spiders move faster.
This will also add the possibility for speed runner leaderboard for the PvE experience.
I believe the two modes can’t mix well so maybe best to have trade separate as well
This I hope will help the game be approachable by more types of gamers

[exotic shore]

They should implement a scoring for gear. The better the item the higher the score is. Kind of like a combat rating. Each player gets a total combat rating depending on the total score of the gear they are bringing in with them, and pair players with other players that have around the same amount of combat rating.

[livid mason]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508886/add-in-adventurer-rank-tags-in-the-game

thoughts? it would help tell who's likely to be geared or not without a cape

[late comet]

Remove longsword movement speed penalty and increase base damage to 100 on grey longsword

[ripe haven]

Gear based match making won't work at all. Gear based queues will work properly. Base kit mode is probably the most important one.

[vernal hedge]

and aren't those 2 the same?

[ripe haven]

Nope.

Gear based match making is when your gear has that score that affects a multitude of different possible algorithms

Gear based queues is when you can't bring gear higher than a certain color tier, altho you can use whatever rare+ you find in the dungeon and keep it when you leave

Gear based matchmaking will likely slow down higher tier players from queueing as quickly whereas gear based queues put everyone on equal gear footing at the beginning of the adventure

[vernal hedge]

"Same shit, different toilet"

in both cases you are limiting the ammount of players you are able to queue against, in both cases you'd see longer queue times

[ripe haven]

That's not correct at all.

[vernal hedge]

you are adding a variable to the game that determines the power level that people you queue against can have, yes or no?

[ripe haven]

Gear based matchmaking will eventually match you with adversely different tier gear players EVENTUALLY whereas gear cap is a skill based mode that would prevent you from matching with geared players

[vernal hedge]

theres nothing skill based about any of those, both are gear oriented ,what?

[ripe haven]

Gear cap mode, specifically base kit mode, is a skill based matchmaking mode. Gear is what enhances a players natural skill; it augments power and durability, and makes up for mistakes made. Simply having gear doesn't make you a better skilled player.

[vernal hedge]

"Simply having gear doesn't make you a better skilled player." so a gear based matchmaking isnt skill based, its gear based has you just said

[ripe haven]

I'm not sure you can fully grasp the difference. Have a great morning.

[vernal hedge]

it's not rocket science, I'll give it a last try:
currently: I'm a naked player that can queue against any of the other 5000 people queueing
via GBMM or gear capped lobbies, you are making it so a players in greens wont queue against a fully naked person, so you are reducing the ammount of possible players you can queue with.
How does this not increase queue times?

[jade tartan]

I think they are talking about splitting it into 2 different queues(grey to green and blue to gold or somethin) which wouldn't increase the queue times as much as making lobbies with people who have the the same gearscore and it would also still give a point to bringing better gear as you would still have an advantage over people who bring less gear or have gear with worse stats but the advantage wouldn't be an automatic win button like it is currently with say grey gear vs gold gear which would make the game more fun for both parties(the greys wouldn't get curbstomped by people in blue and up gear and the people with better gear would still have a challenge)

[granite plinth]

all ill say is its going to be even harder to find a fucking lobby when everyone stops playing

[vernal hedge]

but it would have an impact which is my main point of contention there, if you are reducing the amount of eligible players it will always have an impact(specially when we talk about the population that makes up the majority of the playerbase, if you queue in right now and die to ai to spectate people you'll see most fit in that up to green queue).

and personally, im against any gear based shenanigans, I don't find it enjoyable and in my opinion would make the game stale.
The game being unforgiving and encounters unexpected is a large part of the game for me, if I know that anyone ill encounter will be a timmy or pretty geared guy would ruin that.

current MMR system being experimented appears to be having some effect but it's hard to say for sure since next wipe is announced and within 1 week but i have consistently been seeing ruins games with several teams with named weapons and crazy gear, while just 2-3 days ago(before it was implemented) it was maybe 1 out of 5 games in which a team would roll the lobby, this for me has been some of the most fun in the game so far, theres a good mixture of timmys, very geared and semi geared people

[jade tartan]

My only problem with the current mmr system is that it doesn't seem to take gear into account with its matchmaking so every lobby I go into will always be juiced doesn't matter if im naked or playing with friends who just installed the game

[vernal hedge]

yah thats one of my main things against having a system like this:
I like to be able to troll and not worry about my "rank"
Finding some timmys and helping them through their raid
Having an actual 0 to hero snowball
And personally I enjoy fighting better and more geared people than me, IMO that's how you actually improve because you can't rely on your gear for the fight, you rely on skill, positioning, knowing the strong and weak side of different classes/builds/comps etc, it's why I play rogue, I can easilly be 2 shot by just about any class in the game, but I also have the tools to 1v1, 1v2 most classes in the game if played correctly

I think a mix between a mmr and gbmm would be the way, kinda how Singleplayer Tarkov does it. The higher you level there is, the highter the % youll have higher level AI-PMC's and more geared, of course would work differently here but something along those lines so that you can still find geared people, just way less often if starting to give room to learn and build up

[jade tartan]

sure I agree going against people with better gear by a tier or two is fun and challenging but when the difference gets to be 3 or 4 tiers apart you need hit them like 15 times vs their 1 or 2 times and it gets quite demoralizing when you die after bonking them 5 times and see them not even at half health

[vernal hedge]

Oh absolutely, I’m a rogue main, fighting a pdr fighter that deal more damage than you, moves quicker than you on a cooldown, and tanks 10 times more with a single use recoup ability isn’t fun, but on that end it’s also something that they are addressing with the vigor and dexterity change.

There’s also more incentives to play hr coming which will help this, for me personally the ranks while rather simple gives me something the game was mostly lacking, a sort of progression, or at least an end game objective to work towards

[jade tartan]

Yeah hopefully it gets better this upcoming wipe

[hazy tulip]

Insta ban any geared barbarian in HR GC who is using felling axe. 99% chance to be a hacker

[dapper gull]

Make poison have healing reduction

[graceful beacon]

idk

[onyx sky]

Hey guys. I have some ideas for things they could add to this game. New types of Items. I did a little write up of my initial thoughts.

Cursed items - once you equip them, you cannot unequip them unless you die or pay money outside of the dungeon.

Haunted items - they persist a number of times after you die but cannot be unequipped until you're outside of the dungeon.

Elite items - The more times you extract while wearing this type of item, the more powerful they get. You can unlock new attributes or powers on these items.

Fragile Items - They are very powerful, but if you extract with them a certain number of times, they break.

Bloodstained Items - Items that record specific types of monsters killed while wearing these. After a certain number of specific monsters are killed, new attributes are added to the item. EX: Kill 10 zombies - unlock new affix

[dusky kernel]

I doubt they’ll be adding anything like this anytime soon but they sounds fun

[agile bay]

Sounds cool to me. Haunted items could give you a debuf

[coral glen]

what do you guys think of parties only being able to select 1 type of a class? I see a lot of ranger and rogue abusers... what if they are forced to choose another class and build a party with different classes? like, just one ranger per party, one rogue, one cleric, etc...

I know this could make party creation a bit boring, but it would be a way to balance those who abuse a strong class... like the triple ranger parties

[low egret]

please let people store arrows and bolts.. if we have to pay for them, they should be storable.

[idle dome]

is it me or are hell dogs ez and dire wolf are harder?? i think they need a nerff

[distant minnow]

hot take. Fighters shouldn't be allowed to use a cross bow or regular bow at all without weapon master. Fighters do everything a Ranger does, but they do it better.

[fringe hamlet]

Was just thinking shouldn't spectate be restricted to party members only until a TPK, I just saw someone spectate snipe someone

[distant minnow]

it ... is?

[limber elbow]

im try hard the shit out of me to buy stash so i can keep more items , next patch you need more stash to do quest , first stash 3k , second 10k , third is 20k , and the Stash can only keep items with no item it's just empty but why they want to wipe stash ??

Deleting all equipment, gold and levers is necessary when starting a new patch, but there has never been a game so miserable that it forced players to spend a ton of money to buy more chests and then delete them every month.

[distant minnow]

you clearly have NEVER played escape from tarkov, if you don't pay for the 100 edition you have 0 stash space, and have to collect isane amounts of shit to make it the same size as the guys who DID pay.

and even then its NEVER enough, so you have to buy boxes and gun cases and armor cases and scavanger cases to store all your shit in. Every 5 months like clockwork. wipe. starting from scratch to redo missions and re build your base, and all that. this game is a cake walk compared to eft.

[limber elbow]

Children's opinion, don't compare two different games as if everything has to be the same as a game you don't even play.

[distant minnow]

lol i play both games, very hard. its a childs opinion that this game wouldn't get stale if they didn't wipe.

[shadow plinth]

Shouldn't you be making you're wife's boyfriend a sandwich

[dim jetty]

Your *

That's funny though. You got owned so bad last night you came back for more. Stay mad kid.

[west valley]

We promote the use of good grammar in the Dark and Darker Discord 🔥🔥🔥

[patent mauve]

Mayor of hard pressedville

[idle shadow]

Anyone want to discuss the possibility of end of wipe events? I really think it would help bring back the playerbase towards the end when pure content gets stale.

[shadow plinth]

I didn't even read what you said other than the comment about streaming. This isn't a reddit thread loser aren't you 40?

[lucid folio]

rogues "thrust" perk description has to be fixed, it doesn't state that it only works on daggers

[coarse dew]

Any chance of getting Din of Darkness or piercing shrill to show on Target dummies

[idle shadow]

I believe you mean thrust? and it only works on daggers ? I was not aware of that

[soft apex]

Doesn't that perk spend more words detailing what it does not work with than describing the buff it grants?

[earnest osprey]

This game went from.. one of the most promising games in a long long time. To a dev killed game. Good job Iron Mace. You for sure dropped the ball on this one.

[ripe turtle]

Are Bards overpowered or have unfair advantage over other classes/players if they are able to play songs/particular songs while resting? Please leave a comment about your opinions!
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508027/bards-sitting-while-playing-songsparticular-songs

[lucid folio]

yes, it only works on daggers

[foggy sun]

They should add wandering monsters. Adding a gelatinous cube that "cleans up" corpses would be cool.

[tough cedar]

Ironmace needs to get rid of this stupid "MMR" experiment right now. You say "our game is about grinding and looting," but how are we supposed to grind and loot when we're in grey base gear getting hunted down by epic and better rated gear JUST because we have more playtime than a new player? You're killing the game Ironmace.

[earnest osprey]

The game is already dead smh

[visual violet]

please for the LOVE of GOD. stop letting mobs chase me 3 TILES away with 0 LOS and they dont leash back to their spot

im running 3 WHOLE ASS TILES they have 0 LOS and hes STILL following me.

[soft apex]

I think if you deal any damage to a monster, they are now your BFF, and will follow you to the ends of the earth. Not saying it should necessarily be that way. But just so you know how it works, don't hit them if you want to range leash, if you do hit them you need to cause a pathfinding block to get them to reset.

[fresh berry]

great idea i would love that

[onyx sky]

@fresh berry Someone requested that I make a reddit post about this so I did.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/17wuvts/suggestion_new_itemization_ideas/

I also made a suggestion post on this website for it too:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/509034/suggestion-new-itemization-ideas

[rancid pebble]

Tarkov is such a bad game. Ive never heard anyone enjoy it or say anything positive ab it, idk how it is popular

[patent mauve]

Go on, what's the big issue tissue?

[hardy vector]

add back the blue gear cap in norms

its whats killing the game rn. if u have purples ur good enough to do hr, and if you dont want to take off the fucking purples

[blissful gulch]

Ps5 release still in plans?

[graceful beacon]

I disagree

[dim jetty]

Sorry to head reddit banned you bud. That has nothing to do with dark and darker. Stay mad.

[shadow plinth]

Okay rat keep getting steamrolled and calling everyone streamers lol. Imagine getting farmed and then coming in here to trash talk everyone as if anyone gives a rats ass about what you think. You are a 🐀

[dim jetty]

I do pretty well in this game regardless bud. I'm just pointing out obvious flaws with the game. If I wasn't right, you wouldn't be so hot and bothered right now. Stay mad. 😏

[sand surge]

We need a training hall. Somewhere to test dps on dummies, possibly with friends. Make it from the ruins campsite or something. But please we need it.

[shadow plinth]

No, all you do is complain and flame. You can't even attempt to formulate a suggestion without sounding like a whiney child. Instead of crying man up act your age and put in just a little effort. The devs do read this and posts like yours get ignored because they are just flame and crying. Noones mad I'm just tired of seeing your smug beta male reddit cringe

[dim jetty]

Whatever you need to tell yourself bro. The only one whining is you, and it's because you're mad that I'm right and you feel threatened as a result. You know what an adult does? They don't randomly start messaging and replying to someone flaming them just because they don't like that they have to say. I'm literally getting paid to verbally own you on here BTW. Go ahead and keep providing me free entertainment. You're the court jester at this point.

[frosty dome]

more portals in solos or more time sick of never finding the damn things cause the game is mutli leveld never enough time

[soft apex]

something to increase portal utilization at least, aside from map knowledge and the one time audio cue the map can end up with disused portals. Often in the swarm but not very far in, a really useful utility item might be a manarock or something that provides vague indication that there is a portal in a direction.

[south fern]

@dim jetty your point makes no sense of couse you would listen to people who spend more time/money on your game just think about it for a second

[woven jackal]

Make fire mastery also fully apply any remaining burns when a burn is applied so it works with ignite daggers

[proud sigil]

change weapon mastery perk to -20%PDB

[lament sequoia]

Suggestion fix server lags ... done playing this trash till its fixed

[long blade]

Suggestion. Don't play while you're so upset!

[lament sequoia]

shut up tinny p3ker timmie

[long blade]

I suggest you take it easy!

[lament sequoia]

I suggest stop spewing nonsense .....

[long blade]

I suggest you calm down!

[lament sequoia]

Honestly i am done with this game . Friends left and i am only one playing this crap. Going to wait till this next patch and if its still trash... I am going to just delete the game and forget it . Starting to feel like a waste of money and time

[hardy vector]

good

fighter plate should be based off their current ms

every 10 ms is 1 ms from sprint, 300 - 330, 200 - 220

[dim jetty]

Except the changes being made have only benefitted streamers. The item caps and trading restrictions were great. Streamers didn't like it because it allowed people who don't play 8 hours a day to build up their coffers.

[south fern]

@dim jetty ur high if you think that they added mmr nerfed all gear and squished like every stat even more next update too lol that game has been getting more noob freindly every update?

[dim jetty]

OK, what are the changes in the last two patches that made the game more, "noob friendly" as you call it? GO ahead, I'm listening.

[south fern]

stat squish wepon damage nerfs MMR changes

Like i dont know what game ur playing

[dim jetty]

Those changes affect everyone, that has nothing to do with the point you made. Are you high?

[idle shadow]

apparently this guys never heard of a door

[worn lava]

when people do the clap emote they should be making sound it shouldn't be silent

[hushed horizon]

bard should be able to wear doublet

[runic musk]

He should keep his stupid outifts

[cerulean ruin]

Redistribute short sword and rapier dmg across daggers.. that's a BIG NO. What about Bards and Rangers though sheesh, Selfish. Use Dagger Mastery or something...

[vernal hedge]

Let me take dagger mastery real quick, right after I take ambush, stealth, jokester, shadowrunner… oh wait

[cerulean ruin]

Exactly, rogue has enough good perks to get around

[vernal hedge]

nice troll

[cerulean ruin]

Literally strongest class in the game right now according to the CEO of Ironmace himself

[vernal hedge]

by the same people that gaves us weapon damage gear stacking thrice, said warlock wasn't OP after having hydra first introduced, have had 2 balance paths reverted and let barbarian achiles+blood exchange be a thing

yah I don't trust their 1v1 testing for a game that supossebly is balanced for trios

[ripe turtle]

Race skins need more love in terms of racial traits! Please leave your vote, if you agree! https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/509121/racial-traits-need-to-be-special

[tiny wigeon]

… the changes affect everyone , but nerfing the best possible rolls u can get on items affects the ppl that are playing this game the hardest way more then a regular noob.
Yikes man, u srsly think a company with around 25 ppl is catering to streamers ? Bro what do they get out of that? They need to make their game popular so they can make money as a company.
Catering to streamers, “those changes affect everyone!”
You are clueless

[visual violet]

Playing barb breaking doors. No los is the same. Yeah let me take 8 years to open a door bc barb has 0 ris

[tiny wigeon]

Just cause u can break every door doesn’t mean you should

[visual violet]

No shit really?

[tiny wigeon]

Yea really
You are having a problem that has a solution, yet u don’t like that solution, you want the game to revolve around you and what you play, stop being silly

[visual violet]

No the problem I have it doesn't have a solution. Mobs should not be chasing three tiles over with zero line of sight. It happens in no other game. It doesn't happen all the time either so what you're saying is just wrong. Why would it only happen sometimes and not other times? That's because it's not intended for moms to be chasing for three tiles with zero one of sight

[astral reef]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/508387/gear-score-system
Let's talk about it

[onyx sky]

@astral reef What is the goal of having gear score? Like what does implementing it address specifically? It's clear you think it solves a problem with the game, but your post doesn't say what problem it's solving other than a mention of ratting, but I don't think they have ever defined ratting as a problem that needs to be solved for.

[tiny wigeon]

Just close the door, that’s the solution, you got a bunch of mobs following you, maybe consider not breaking the next door and instead opening it and closing.
The game doesn’t revolve around what you play or the specific perk that you decide to use.
You want the entire game and players to adapt to your play style instead of other way around.

[astral reef]

Well the devs are obviously looking for a solution with things like the capped at blue rarity gear, different lobbies for pre 15, and now an MMR system. They haven't liked any of what they've tried so far. For the blue rarity cap it made the value of purples and higher PLUMET and they didn't like how it wasn't as rewarding finding good gear. A gear score system could fix that because you could still run it if you dipped in gear in another slot. The pre 15 lobbies were alright but they also didn't like how the matches were for people that were over level 15 but wanted to just do some casual no gear runs as the spawn rushing in those lobbies were much higher and the game pace took a hit. MMR system is new and hasn't really been tested yet but I don't think it's a solution they'll like either as it has a lot of problems in a game like this.

[astral reef]

Also, when they tested HR having no fee or very low fee, they said they didn't like how many of the players just ratted into HR with no gear. THey said that's not what HR is meant for.

It also made going into HR with good gear less rewarding and less risk because 80% of the lobby had nothing of value. It made the current issue of max gear players sticking to normal matches instead of HR even more common

[onyx sky]

So I see where you're coming from, but I also feel like it is driving the game in a direction that is more focused on equipment than skill. Like if a player can go into high roller and survive with no equipment, didn't they earn their victories at that point? I'm not sure it's necessarily bad that there are players "ratting" in HR as long as they pay the entrance fee.

I wonder if instead of changing the entrance fee or creating ways of blocking players from entering, why not just put incentives for HR instead? Like items that exclusively drop from HR.

[woven jackal]

I agree on the case of most classes. I don't think rogues should be able to rat it as easily as they do.

Add true sight to a few mobs, so they still have meaningful skill checks and I won't mind it

[astral reef]

That already is the case, unless you mean MORE items dropping exclusively in HR. I by no means think the gear score system is the end all be all and best possible system, but I definitely think it solves a lot of the issues that they're currently trying to find a fix for. I know the devs have specifically said they don't want a gear score system, but I think at the very least a test could provide a lot of valueable information. They said they were never going to have an auction house either. Yes, it's rewarding to get good enough to rat into HR, but at the end of the day that means you're getting good at cheesing PvE and avoiding all PvP. I don't think that's a good game direction to promote. The gear score forcing you into HR above a certain amount means you can still do exactly that, but now if you die to someone they don't get litterally nothing for the time and health spent killing you. It punishes players playing with gear

[onyx sky]

Yeah but if the issue is that they are getting nothing for killing other players who are ratting in HR, you could create rewards for PK's in HR exclusively if that's the main issue.

[vernal hedge]

"Add true sight to a few mobs, so they still have meaningful skill checks and I won't mind it"

You haven't ratted has a rogue right? invis has nothing to do with it really, you can do just about the same on other classes, skills life smokepot and perks like double jump is where the difference is made, aswell as lockpicking perk

[vernal hedge]

and that opens the door for massive abuse, look at bounty hunter from OSRS

[woven jackal]

Invis let's you easily swap rooms, letting you bypass pve in order to improve your positioning on the map, dump aggro on others, or avoid pvp. I've ratted as a rogue, I've ratted as a wizard. Besides, if we added something that shut down those parts of rogue ratting you entirely kill it rather than add more depth. I want more decisions about where. I want them to have to kill some PVE strategically to cut through rooms. I want passageway cut off because it isn't reasonable for them to go through.

[astral reef]

Rogues stealthing near mobs just make them stand still and wait for you to unstealth. They do a little glitchy half step over and over. However it lets you run through difficult to clear rooms that you wouldn't be able to do otherwise. A big issue is mob bombing people by collecting multiple rooms and just running at players and stealthing so they all re agro

[vernal hedge]

i've never used invis to swap rooms other than the triple gargoyle room in Hell

sure you can use it, but it's really a waste as you rather have invis for players, you can bait a hit from basically any mob and open the door in the meanwhile, which any class can do.

I get your suggestion, I also want more interesting rooms, give us "arena" wave style rooms, puzzles, magic doors that only unlock after you kill all mobs, etc

but you are making out the problem to be something that it isnt

[queen vector]

If this has already been suggested, then please disregard. In the recent Dev Q&A I think there was the possibility of a kill cam being added. To go along with a kill cam, a death log/damage taken history would be great to see. The game Hunt:Showdown does this extremely well. It shows incoming and outgoing damage as well as if any heals were received. Will display if it was NPCs or other players that attacked you, with what weapon, from what distance, where on the body you were hit, the attacker's perks/skills. I can't post a screenshot, but if you google hunt:showdown death recap you can see the general idea of what it looks like

[visual violet]

For the tenth time it takes 10 seconds for me to open a door. That's the reason for the perk crush ROFL. And that also doesn't solve the issue either. Bc mobs still agro you through the wall and often shoot and break the door/ stand in the door frame for extended periods of time.

[tiny wigeon]

Yeah dude . So either stop breaking the door, or kill the mobs chasing you, holy shit, there are plenty solutions to your problem , you just want everyone else to adapt to you
ROFL

[woven jackal]

After you close the door walk away from it.

[old basalt]

I have suggestion and concern, i think that without somekind of mathmaking based on gearscore purple gear guys will steamroll normal lobbies and in effect will scare off new players. We see this in all of content creators videos like oo i build super mega chad wizard and steamroll normal lobbies where normal gamers with 2h daily on gaming has 0 chance. Are You guys agree with my poinjt o view or i overreacted a little?

[woven jackal]

The genre requires some gear disparity to work. New player experience is still bad. I don't agree with a gear score, personally, but I don't have a perfect solution

[visual violet]

Not at all, unfortunately you can't post clips in here but I literally ran 3 tiles away looking back multiple times and then bandage once look behind me nothing bandage twice look behind me nothing on the third bandage a goblin mage has no come from his spot 3 tiles away and blasted me rofl. You think that I'm not looking or killing the mobs? Just keep spouting nonsense if you don't know the situations.

[graceful beacon]

dude is making up a problem and then refusing the obvious solutions. literally nobody has your problem lmao

[visual violet]

Yeah man ur right. It's not as if the devs have already agreed mob density is an issue and in HR a few other issues. Least of which is mob leash range.but go off queen

[tiny wigeon]

All I need to know is that you are dying to a goblin mage, no point continuing conversation anymore, we are playing two different games

[soft finch]

Did you consider that with all that time you had to slap bandages on, closing even a single door behind you would have spared your life.

[visual violet]

Yeah man sure, defo wasn't on leaderboard for barb hr or anything defo suck at the game that's clearly the issue. @soft finch all of the doors were already broken / I broke one so it's literally not possible. You can keep refusing to content with 3 tile los breaking argument by saying close door I'm sure you'll go far

[soft finch]

So you suffered the consequences of your own actions lmao

[visual violet]

Yeah man you can spin it however you like but a mob left ran 3 tiles while having 0 los to attack me 30 seconds later after I check behind me 4 times and you think it's normal. It's whatever you are clearly delusional.

[tiny wigeon]

He wants to play exactly how he wants and doesn’t want to adapt to the game, wants the game to adapt to him

[tiny wigeon]

Im glad the mobs chase you for that long, if u had any idea how to use ur brain you would understand why it’s like that.
I’ll explain to make it easier for you.
If the mobs stop chase after 1 tile, the lobbies will have even more kited teams running around looking for players to kill.
The fact that they chase you for a while , stops some ppl from chasing others.
You just want to stomp on some noobs , run the entire map with 0 consequences and get that dopamine hit when you kill a naked fighter!
Good on you dude

[visual violet]

I don't, and not would that stop anyone from Timmie stomping. It's okay if you want to be delusional about it. It's not the fact that a mob chased me 3 tiles. It chased me 3 tiles when it couldn't see me at all the entire time I was running. But again I know you know nothing. I'm playing solo GC HR and a mage is chasing me 3 tiles with 0 Line of sight since maybe you don't know what los means .

I want to die gie to black gob mages who I dont see or hear chasing me 3 tiles over even when I check 4 times . Keep being a donkey.

[small furnace]

Literally just bring a 3 stack of invis pots. Your entire team invis pots and it drops all mob aggro, swaps it to the closest person. Invis pots are dirt cheap in the market too.

[abstract vortex]

not sure if yall have seen the player count recently but ironmace man you rlly gotta start listening to the playerbase and this next content patch needs to be nuclear because as fun as this game is, people are sick and fucking tired of wwearing greens and greys to get rolled by lobsters in every single norms lobby, and theres not nearly enough content to keep people interested despite the fact that Full purple geared players are dominating normal dungeons. Ironmace, if you care even remotely about your game, you need to make some big changes and fast, because where the game is right now its nearly unplayable for people who dont have the time or desire to sweat and grind cash all day.

[soft finch]

Probably just got stuck on something or was channeling the real long spell it has when you started going then was playing catch up.

It's really easy to just say anyone that disagrees with you is delusional instead of admitting your own actions caused your death there so I get it, but come on man.

[soft finch]

Sounds like a map Knowledge and headset issue my guy

[visual violet]

Sure dude.i know why I died I died bc I assumed mobs don't chase 3 tiles with 0 los like every other game and infact most dark and darker raids they don't chase that far but okay bud

[hot hemlock]

Talking about playercount is literally the worst way to show player satisfaction rn, theres so many insane big name games doing cool events rn + end of wipe so obviously players are gonna drop a little. You cant just pin everything on geared teams and think itll get gear changed (again)

[visual violet]

Unironically insufferable and delusional. Stay in the padded room.

[abstract vortex]

sorry, but youre wrong. the playercount went from 35-40k when weapon damage stacking was a thing to 8-10k. 25% of the players from 4 weeks ago play.

[soft finch]

Damn, for someone who supposedly is on the HR leader board you'd think you'd know how the mobs work in this game

[abstract vortex]

losing 75% of your players is NOT due to other games "having end of wipe events" theres nothing going on in tarkov rn and thats the main one.

[soft finch]

Game populations regularly Spike when events/large updates drop, then drop until it's just the regulars are playing. I Really don't think it's an issue of the balance updates.

[abstract vortex]

also you know dnd peaked at like 250k players? to go from that to 10k.... and to suggest it isnt because of poor development..

[hot hemlock]

Never said it was "end of wipe events" I said due to it being NEAR end of wipe people will stop playing,+ you have AAA title releases like MW3 or Fortnite whos doing a month long rewind season, or any other game doing stuff atm. Player count is definitely impacted by the lack of content/balance BUT theres so many exterior factors atm thats its not the main reason

[abstract vortex]

i hear you, but its the interior factors that are the main reason people dont play anymore, not other games

[hot hemlock]

Peaked at 250k when the game was FREE (not everyone can afford 35/50 for a game) and balance changes werent blaringly obvious bc the game was only out for a week at a time

[lone crescent]

250k in a beta is pretty normal

After the release the game can't have the same numbers instantly

[abstract vortex]

i played this game since the first alpha playtest and have watched it go downhill significantly since then, and the game had like 60k+ active players when it was released for sale

[hot hemlock]

Also look at when beta was, 250k was driven by the fact that tarkov was in its worst state ever at the time of a free beta game in the same genre

[lone crescent]

And? Elden Ring sold a bunch of copies and most of those players didn't even beat the first boss

[hot hemlock]

^

[abstract vortex]

bro you have to just look at the facts here. other games and player counts of other games are not relevant. you need to look at communities complains and issues that havent been addressed, and its a collection of these things that made the player count drop so hard.

[hot hemlock]

Okay man, sure

[abstract vortex]

4 weeks ago (which was during tarky halloween event) game had 50k players

[hot hemlock]

The game being in a bad state is the ONLY reason people dont wanna play DaD because people definitely dont have other interests

[abstract vortex]

only 10k now, and youre saying its primarily because of other games and not the fact that the game is just in a terrible state

believe you me i get it, i want this game to be great as much as anyone, but Ironmace is doing the same mistakes that Jaeger did with The Cycle: Frontier

[lone crescent]

The game is not in a terrible state, it just miss content

[abstract vortex]

player count died, then it became impossible to play without running into people with the best of the best shit while you have greys and greens on, its the same problems reoccuring in a totally different game

[lone crescent]

The main reason people leave is pubstomping right now

[abstract vortex]

exactly! and next, the cycle made matchmaking, which didnt function worth anything because there werent enough players to seperate, and if yu were in lowgear you just didnt see another person ever on any of your runs.

idk, i see too many of the same mistakes repeated, and i followed the cycle from its beginning to its death in september

[lone crescent]

Gear based matchmaking is boring, i don't think that's the right way

[small furnace]

I really doubt the main reason people leave is pubstomping.

Pubstomping was still incredibly active during the geap cap, and yet the majority of players started leaving after that patch took it out, though that patch also brought a multitude of other changes to the game.

It made loot pretty terrible, and though we've gotten an incrementally better change since then a lot of people just haven't come back since that patch because they're waiting for a patch worth playing and they made the mistake of saying another wipe would be soon.

[abstract vortex]

i dont think gear based matchmaking is the way either. the current lobby setup is fine, its just the lack of players that forces you into purple teams every match

[small furnace]

Like, I can appreciate transparency about when you're wiping, but why would you wipe, release a patch and then say: "oh yeah in a few weeks we're wiping again"... ok... then why tf would I wanna play? I value my time.

[abstract vortex]

i agree with your reasoning but pubstomping is a huge issue bro

its why all of my IRL homies quit playing, used to be like 8 of us on every weekend

[lone crescent]

Maybe what the game needs is a grey gear queue or the scav mode they mentioned

[abstract vortex]

or like max greens

[small furnace]

I do not know what the solution is.

I feel SBMM is pretty terrible, and they've basically made it so gear is as non-impactful as could ever be without making gear literally pointless. GBMM is bad but not as abusable as SBMM.

If people are still upset about pubstomping when they've removed 80% of stats on gear at this point then idk what could be done without killing the core point of the game even.

[lone crescent]

Gear cap is a bad solution imho, BiS green is godlike vs normal green gear

[abstract vortex]

again, while your reasoning is solid i just dont agree with the main point, theres no world that a grey gear rogue or ranger is touching a purple fighter with a cleric, regardless of what stats are on his gear

they did heavily kill stats on gear, but strength agi and add physdmg and phys power are all still stackable and do the job

[lone crescent]

What we miss is HR Ruins and incentives to go HR in general

[tiny wigeon]

If u invis pot with nobody around u, the mob stays still@

[lone crescent]

They're splitting the stats for that reason

[abstract vortex]

so if lets say a team of ranger wizard and fighter goes into another ranger wizx and fighter, whichever team has the better gear wins every single time. skill is mostly irrelevant when one team is decked in full purp and capes

[small furnace]

The problem is most of the solutions people like you want are going to make me just quit the game.

If gear isn't impactful you're going to lose just as many if not more people than you would lose to pubstomping.
Same thing goes for GBMM, SBMM idk but it seems like it's very easily abusable in the long run if you want to farm up.

[lone crescent]

That's not true, Wizard melts Fighter, Ranger destroys Wizard and Fighter can outplay with block

[small furnace]

If you run far away from mobs and then invis pot they will return to their normal patrol. The standing still thing only happens if they are right next to you when you invis. In your example you were explaining why mobs will follow you through 3 rooms. I pointed out an invis pot completely negates this because the mobs will just stop following you if you invis pot once you're out of aggro range.

@abstract vortex Worst possible example you could give, a skilled ungeared wizard can kill literally everyone in the game even if they're more geared. Skill is ABSOLUTELY the biggest factor when it comes to playing wizard.

[abstract vortex]

yeah idk from personal experience and seeing what the bulk of the complaints from the community are, thats not the case.

obviously there are players who are skilled enough to be outliers. im not talking about those players. im talking about the average skilled playerbase which by the way makes up the majority of the community

[lone crescent]

Btw even buffball comp is a main issue, people got bored by this meta

[small furnace]

It is absolutely the case. Your personal experience is that wizards are terrible because 90% of wizards are terrible and it's a high skill floor class.

The bulk of the community playing wizard are also bad, sorry to say. SKILL is the biggest factor in determining whether a wizard player can kill someone, not their gear.

[abstract vortex]

this is true

[abstract vortex]

again im not talking about any specific classes here when talking about gear disparity. a beginner lobby with only white and less or a scav mode is desperately needed.

because the getting slaughtered by rubysilver johnny in every single norms run has ruined the game for most casual players.

[small furnace]

Right I'm just saying when you were trying to say that gear is the only factor in a fight the team comp you gave was the worst possible example because it included wizard.

[abstract vortex]

fair enough, it was less bout the classes and more about the gear disparity issue

like do people really feel good running full purps and golds killing basekit rogues and shit?

[small furnace]

If we attempt to make gear even less impactful than it is then I'll probably quit, and many others will too.

You can't just keep making gear less and less impactful because then people will have nothing to strive for.

What's the point in me working so hard for a 10% increase in my potential?

[abstract vortex]

its not an issue of that, its an issue of people using their potential increase to bully basekit players intentionally

[lone crescent]

What we need is a system that protects in some way new players and doesn't damage at all the gameplay for geared players

[small furnace]

The way you worded it was "Gear disparity issue" When gear disparity is the second lowest it's ever been. I'm not okay with us making gear even less impactful than it currently is, it takes away so much of the fun from the game.

[abstract vortex]

the problem is that Ironmace needs to solve the issue of people being garbage, which is alot harder than fixing a game bug. until HR has good enough incentive or norms has a penalty for running such overgeared kits, its not going to change

[lone crescent]

I don't consider myself a bad player (not good either) and i don't need any protection even when i'm grey, but i understand that some people do

[abstract vortex]

yes, gear disparity. purple and legendary and uniques against greys and whites

[small furnace]

I would not mind if new accounts got a separate queue available for a short period.

The problem with the lv 1-15 lobby was that ANYONE could make a new character at any time.

[abstract vortex]

yep^ exactly

[lone crescent]

Yeah they should consider the total playtime of the account and not the level of the single character

[abstract vortex]

i dont even think that should matter

[lone crescent]

I don't think handholding is good btw

[abstract vortex]

i should be able to go into a low gear lobby with low gear to play casually and have fun, i shouldnt be forced to have to sweat and get my ass kicked by full epic and legendary teams just because ive played the game before

[small furnace]

You have to look at the other end of the spectrum of that too, which I do not feel you do.

What is the point of getting good gear? This isn't meant to be a trick question, just answer.

[abstract vortex]

its not handholding. its the ability to play casually and enjoy yourself. right now, if you dont sweat, you dont have fun, and thats why all the casual players arent playing.

[abstract vortex]

yeah, personally i go for good gear to have an easier time in HR to get even better gear, like intended

i dont run purps in norms just as a personal rule. i hate getting rolled by purps when im trying to build a character so i dont do it to other people

[lone crescent]

Maybe we just need to wait for patch 2, if they match HR "free" with that adventurer points progression most players with gear will be forced to HR to get those rewards

[small furnace]

That is not the only reason to get good gear.

The reason people get good gear is to become stronger.

Good gear doesn't exist SOLELY for HR purposes. When you put on good gear you want to be stronger, and if everybody was just placed with other people with good gear when they put on good gear then they would not really feel that much stronger, thus it wouldn't serve much of a purpose to get better gear.

@lone crescent Oh god yes if they make HR free but it costs adventurer points that sounds amazing as all hell. I'd love that.

[abstract vortex]

i dont agree with it, and i think its tiny dong energy to run people down in basekits with legendaries

[small furnace]

Okay, but the incentive for most people is not just: "I am now able to play HR" the incentive to getting gear is: "I want to feel stronger and have more freedom with my build"

I understand you may not agree with it, but it is reality. If you take that away most people simply will not strive for better gear and you've taken away the core purpose of the game.

[lone crescent]

It's confirmed that it will cost adventure points (like battle royale ranked system) and you will need to make enough points and extract to advance in your ranking and get rewards, and battle pass with ranking elements

I don't know if the gold fee will stay

[small furnace]

I know that much, it's why I'm saying I hope the gold fee goes away with this, I think more people would play HR if it did.

[abstract vortex]

yeah, and you do feel stronger being able to take out hr mobs and other geared players easier. this was never an issue in the early dayas, you rarely saw purps in norms and HR was where the juicers went. thats the intended purpose of building up gear and becoming stronger, to take on HR and the better geared players going into HR. not to pubstomp people levelling characters or trying to build up a bit of cash on a character.

and to suggest that ironmace at any point wanted people to be taking HR gear into norms to blast timmies, is absurd.

[dry glacier]

Id play HR more if it was different. New mobs not just sped up recolored versions. It just feels like a half assed mode for try hards

[lone crescent]

Speaking on Barbarian behalf we reach our peak power with just any blue weapon vs standard mobs in HR

[abstract vortex]

i heavily agree with this.

[small furnace]

I do not put on gear in order to feel 'stronger against mobs'

You're missing the point.

If I'm a grey person playing against another grey person it's the same as if I'm a purple person playing against another purple person. If the pvp growth aspect is removed from gear then I simply won't strive for gear. There's no point.

[abstract vortex]

thats just not true, youre calling the ability to one shot basekit players "pvp growth"

[small furnace]

That is a hyperbolic strawman of what I just said. I'm not going to respond to that. You can rephrase it or the conversation ends here.

[dry glacier]

Really I wish they would add more incentive for people to team together instead of just a pvp slaughter fest. Imo it should be PVE focused with a potential for PVP to happen based on circumstances.

[abstract vortex]

dont respond then, shows your inability to see perspectives pther than your own. when im running full purple in HR and win against another full purp team it DEFINITELY feels alot better than killing a basekit with nothing. and you are probably part of the issue, running full kits slaughtering lvl 5 characters thinking that you have any modicum of skill

[lone crescent]

Unless i'm doing a ratting run i get extremely bored when i don't pvp in a raid

[small furnace]

And now your true colors come out, yes I'm not continuing this conversation.

[abstract vortex]

and to suggest that killing a grey gear player is the same as killing a fullgear purple player, is straight up dumb.

youre simply trying to preserve your way of life killing noobs and lowgear players for profit, becasue you cant win a fight against people in gear similar to yours.

[lone crescent]

@abstract vortex you are just stating bs, that's nowhere close to what he said

[abstract vortex]

it is tho? dude straight up said "If I'm a grey person playing against another grey person it's the same as if I'm a purple person playing against another purple person. " which is completely false.

[lone crescent]

That's true, I won't feel any powerful if anyone else is as powerful as me

[abstract vortex]

thats absurd

[lone crescent]

It's the same for any RPG game, mobs growing in power along with you is the dumbest most unfun experience ever

And with that i don't mean i'm a pubstomper, that's true both for normals and HR

[weak pasture]

how do I prevent myself from queuing into purple fighters?

[abstract vortex]

if your intention whenbuilding a kit is to roll lowgear players, and not to stand a better chance against the big guys, then you are part of the problem

[lone crescent]

Again this statement is dumb af, you are completely missing our point.

When i queue HR with blue gear i want my opponents to have purple to get upgrades, if everyone has blue where is the fun?

[abstract vortex]

no im not, your point is that you wanna have a power trip killing lowgear players

[lone crescent]

The same for normals, if we are all grey why do i even kill other players? To get trash loot?

[small furnace]

@lone crescent This is why I cut it where I did. When someone gets like this you just can't communicate with them, they interpret everything you say as "I want to pubstomp"

[abstract vortex]

no interpretation, thats just what you are saying

[weak pasture]

TIL players are the only source of loot in normals

[lone crescent]

Me? I play HR as my main mod and i'm the pubstomper? Please stop saying bullshit

[abstract vortex]

thats exactly what yall are saying, you want to feel powerful against other players xDDDD

aka, you want to have an easy time wiping other players, aka you want to pubstomp. aka you cant win a fair fight

[lone crescent]

No i want to feel powerful vs players with worse gear than mine and i want to feel less powerful vs players with better gear than me, it's not one way

[small furnace]

Lot of 'akas' to show his mental gymnastics in obtaining his conclusion that he didn't have to interpret.

[night grove]

i think all the dungeons should have a solo mode

[abstract vortex]

the main issue killing playercount is pubstomping. you guys are trying to argue that its not and youre wrong, when the bulk of the community has complained about it for weeks now

[lone crescent]

You think in HR everyone runs around with BiS? Fook i go in even with green gear

[lone crescent]

How TF can i pubstomp in High Roller? Jus fkin tell me

[abstract vortex]

i would love to be wrong, but if this next content update isnt an absolute banger this game is going to die.

[small furnace]

I disagree with you yes, but the main reason I stopped talking to you is because you're being disingenuous about everything I say, interpreting it as: "YOU WANT PUBSTOMPING IN GAME? TIMMIE SLAYER!"

Like yeah ofc I'm not willing to have a conversation on those terms, same reason I won't try to have a civil discussion about politics with the monkey throwing shit at the glass in the zoo.

[abstract vortex]

HR isnt pubs? nobody said anything about pubsotmping hr lmaoooo thats something you thought up on your own

which is exactly my point, people run norms 10x more geared then they run HR

most of my HR lobbies are naked rogues

[lone crescent]

"that's something you thought up on your own"

I love the irony, you accused us of wanting to pubstomp with purples for no reason

[abstract vortex]

okay well keep ignoring the complaints of the majority of the community like the devs are, then wonder why the game is dead in 2 months

i encourage you to try for yourself, queue into 5 normals and count the geared teams, then queue into 5 HR and count the geared teams. any server, doesnt matter

[lone crescent]

#suggestion-discussion message

Oh yeah i agree with you but now i'm the bad guy, please stop twisting my words

[abstract vortex]

never called you the bad guy you're just clearly emotional and not understanding what i am saying. you said you want to feel powerful against weak geared players, which is exactly what the issue is thats killing the game right now.

[lone crescent]

Again no that's nowhere near to what i said

[abstract vortex]

that is verbatim what you said

[lone crescent]

If i'm in purple gear and i kill the guy in blue gear he's weak geared?

[abstract vortex]

"No i want to feel powerful vs players with worse gear than mine "

personally, id rather feel like i won the fights cuz of my skill and not because of the colour of my gear.

[lone crescent]

"No i want to feel powerful vs players with worse gear than mine and i want to feel less powerful vs players with better gear than me, it's not one way"

Stop twisting my words

[abstract vortex]

also not a big difference in purple vs blues, and you know thats not what im talking about here. im talking about full epic and legendary kits going into greybois

[lone crescent]

Yeah but that's what I was talking about but you felt safe to assume i'm the one in purple gear stomping greys

[abstract vortex]

not twisting anything m8, that second part is irrelevant for the people who run that shit in norms to roll lowgear players where there is nobody with better gear

[lone crescent]

Again i play HR

[abstract vortex]

and again im not talking about you

if you dont run purples and legendaries into norms to roll grey kits then you arent part of the issue

[lone crescent]

Then why you said that i want to pubstomp?

[weak pasture]

purples going into normal and killing greys probably isn't great for the game long term
they should better incentivize HR

[abstract vortex]

if you run purples and legendaries into norms to kill greys then you are part of the problem

thats it thats all, end of story, its what the majority of the community has an issue with and ignoring that problem like The Cycle did is what will lead to the death of the game

[tiny wigeon]

I agree, however I think the ppl that are pub stomping , aren’t the ones that would go to HR because the loot there is better or anything .
These kited epic players in normal lobbies just want that dopamine hit of seeing their name in the kill feed.

[lone crescent]

You can't even ban all purples from normals cause some purple are trash and are barely usable even in normals

[abstract vortex]

yeah thats totally true, which is why this is such a difficult thing to balance

[weak pasture]

I think the complaints of timmies are valid regardless

[tiny wigeon]

When they had gear cap and you couldn’t take epic or higher into normals, what happened?
Blues started being more expensive then epics and even some legendaries, ppl are lame, they will always be lame

[lone crescent]

Normals are fine, it's High Roller that is not appealing for most of the playerbase

[small furnace]

Most people see the value of purples in norms too, otherwise we wouldn't of seen them selling for 25% of their price when they were briefly banned in norms.

[weak pasture]

blue was a weird cutoff
maybe green would have been better

[abstract vortex]

yeah that is 100% true purps were worth nothing unless they were godroll, but that is an issue of HR not being properly incentivized more than anything

[small furnace]

I would've just straight up not played if it were green.

[lone crescent]

I used purple boots with regular interaction, magical interaction and magical power on Barbarian in normal, any green with a decent stat is better

[weak pasture]

not a great look on you tbh

[small furnace]

Sorry, guess I should go play a different game if having good gear appeals to me in this game.

I don't play HR when leaderboards are out because I fundamentally don't enjoy how leaderboard farming works, and if I can't use anything above a green then it's just a boring game to me tbh.

[abstract vortex]

lmao this is a great way to spend my burthday, getting stoned and arguing about DaD in discord 😄

[tiny wigeon]

I think another issue of gear based matchmaking is that it makes it way less likely for u to get any good loot.
Maybe you managed to loot someone that just fought against another team, and got huge upgrades , maybe u used the map to your advantage and managed to outplay some geared chad.
Right now it’s at least a possibility. Gear based matchmaking just gonna mean whatever loot I’m getting is around the same as I had, maybe slightly better but that’s it. It’s also a bit sad

[weak pasture]

no one said don't have good gear lmao

the irony of you mentioning mental gymnastics earlier lmao

[tiny wigeon]

Happy bday for you

[abstract vortex]

lol thank youu ahahah

[small furnace]

I literally just said that I wouldn't play if I could only have greens and you said 'not a good look on you tbh' like what is my interpretation supposed to be?

I explain to you that if green is the limit of which I can use then it's not fun to me, and I only play HR when the leaderboards are down because I don't like the type of players that are attracted by leaderboard farming. Same type of people that like to farm kill feeds.

[abstract vortex]

you know things have died tho just by looking at the memes channel, used to be 20+ memes a day and now theres barely any 😦

[fast lily]

They just need to make it so a ungeared player can outplay a bis player by squishing the power a bit and all gear related problems should be fine. Emphasize skill over gear with gear being an edge you can hedge and that problem will take care of itself.

[tiny wigeon]

Man .. u guys still don’t get it, it’s like you actively try not to understand..
The game already has very long queues for high roller.
Yet u want item cap lobbies, and you want starter gear lobbies..
The game has 10k ppl playing, spread over 5 regions, there are 3s map 2s map and solos map, the solo and 3s map also has high roller.
And now u want to add MORE ways to split the community.
No matter how bad the game is balanced, the worse thing possible is insanely long queue times or empty games.
You guys complain about being farmed by kited players (fair, it’s lame AF) but if ur lobby was empty or u had to wait 10mins to play a round that lasts 10mins, u would be even more unhappy.

The solution to kited players farming timmies, is NOT gear matchmaking lobbies..

Not to mention , it’s anti fun.
Personally I like the fact that there is a chance I go into a lobby with average gear and could get out bis.
Gear matchmaking just ruins that part of the game, u maybe get small upgrades from other players but ur mostly getting better gear from chests.
It will stagnate the game by a lot
So let’s imagine a scenario , you queue for gear matchmaking, you wait 6mins for game to start , it starts with 8/16 players, you go in play the round for 10mins, come out with 3 slight upgrades.
That’s fun!

[small furnace]

pls no more, they already removed 80% of stats from gear, I do want gear to still feel impactful

[lone crescent]

When people see arguing and explaining your point as a flex

[fast lily]

They just need to increase base bulk a little without changing the top end, and remove the edge cases where players are impossible to kill between each other.

[abstract vortex]

thats definitely part of the issue, ungeared players or basekits have legitimately 0 chance into BiS teams, but i dont think an ungeared player should ever be able to kill a BiS straight up, i just think BiS players and grey players shouldnt be in the same games

[small furnace]

If they make base kits slightly stronger that's fine w/ me.

The only people that are 'impossible to kill' are barb and fighter players with high PDR, and even then magic damage can kill them.

[abstract vortex]

because if an ungeared player could just kill a BiS player, then simpforlizardman is 100% right, gear would mean legit nothing

but my entire point is that BiS players shouldnt be in the same matches as grey players.

[fast lily]

I'm not suggesting an ungeared player be able to kill a BiS player, I'm saying a very skilled ungeared player should be able to have options and tools to outplay and eventually kill a player that is outgearing you.

[tiny wigeon]

Skill should be involved , not just what gear you are using, this game has a lot of skill depth to it

[small furnace]

They do in 90% of cases, that's currently how the game is.

Esp if you're a wizard or warlock player, you can outplay and kill p much anyone.

[lone crescent]

Yeah but what can you do? Matching all "BiS" together and making their experience bad?

[abstract vortex]

and tbh i think if you want to play with that intention, trying to outplay bis as lowgear, you should be queueing into HR, thats how i feel

[lone crescent]

Gear cap doesn't work and i don't think they will ever test it again

[weak pasture]

if you don't like playing HR while geared, then yeah that does seem antithetical to the point of the game

nowhere did I say don't have good gear, so it's still a leap from you

[abstract vortex]

you should be able to play whatever playstyle you want honestly, but the 100g pricetag of HR is the biggest issue with that, and im pretty sure thats why alot of these guys are running them fat kits into the greyboys in normals.

[weak pasture]

this is a fair criticism, though it doesn't offer any solutions to timmy stomping

[small furnace]

Man it's like you intentionally skipped over reading part of what I said.

I said I don't like playing HR when leaderboards are up, when leaderboards are down I absolutely love HR.

It's not a leap from me, I succinctly explained my point and you decided to act like I was using the same level of mental gymnastics as the same guy who put 'aka' 3 times in his post on something he supposedly did not have to interpret.

[abstract vortex]

great logic here for sure, but the problem with the really long queues for HR is the fact that its not properly incentivized and that the game only has 10k active players right now

[lone crescent]

For me the stat change alone will act as an equaliser, a Rouge for example has to choose between building hp or speed, a Barb has to choose between hp or damage

[weak pasture]

if you don't like playing HR when leaderboards are up, that's kind of a weird hangup honestly

it's not compelling

[abstract vortex]

rogue isnt a good example right now honestly, the class is very weak at the moment lol

[lone crescent]

A 180hp Barbarian with low damage is killable, a high damage one with low speed is killable too

[weak pasture]

it seems like you are just looking for ways to not ack that you wanna be geared in normals

[abstract vortex]

in most cases as a rogue you need to have gear or youre hitting a ranger 5 times to kill them

[lone crescent]

One of the main problem is that STR and AGI are just too strong

[weak pasture]

hopefully

[small furnace]

Is it really a weird hangup?

When the leaderboards are up you get all the streamers that go in farming the entire lobby to increase an imaginary number tied to their name. I do not enjoy playing with those kinds of players, when I queue into HR I am queuing into HR because of the risk v reward factor, not because I want to increase a number that's attached to my gamertag for everyone to read.

I like HR when it's a risk v reward gamemode that everybody is incentivized to participate in. I don't like HR when it's a gamemode where you can farm entire lobbies for clout as a career streamer who plays the game 14 hours a day.

[lone crescent]

Yeah that's because strength gives damage and hp, with the split in strength and vigor he can't have both, and if he does he sacrifices his speed and action speed

[abstract vortex]

honestly good reasoning, cant even argue with that, its honestly pretty accurate

[abstract vortex]

no, unfortunately its because the streamers that the devs listen to complain about rogues all the time and dont understand that they are a necessary evil, and thus they continue to get nerfed over and over

[lone crescent]

For example i'm pretty sure i will build my Barbarian with Vigor and Agility, that means i'm slow at attacking and i have less damage than what i have now

[weak pasture]

this hasn't been my experience at all, but if it is for you then your perspective is valid for sure

[abstract vortex]

because currently rangers are completely unchecked, except by other rangers in most situations. the amount of double ranger teams or ranger fighter in ruins is disgusting, simply because of how strong the class currently is.

[weak pasture]

though it does sound like you agree with me fundamentally

timmy stomping is a problem, and HR should be better incentivized / work better

[lone crescent]

A naked Rogue with a green dagger was able to take down a full purple Fighter or Barbarian in a few hits, nerf was justified

Before the removal of random modifiers a Rogue with a bunch of STR and stacked weapon damage was able to facetank a Barbarian with equal gear and win

[small furnace]

To be super clear, I think they're gonna still leave them as 'strong stats' when they make the change. They said STR will be like 75% att power and 25% HP.

so maybe it'll give 1.5 phys power per, and 1 HP per instead. They'll still be strong, just the purpose of them will be shifted.

at least I HOPE that's the case and they aren't just diluting the game with worse stats again.

[lone crescent]

Yeah that's what they're doing, 25% means every point of STR will give 0.5 hp and every point of Vigor will give 1.5, this unless they change the scaling

For agility and dexterity is the same

And i agree, 150hp oneshotting Rogue should be illegal

[small furnace]

Which is honestly exciting, cause most people built Agi for the atk speed in the first place, the movespeed was just a bonus.

So having a stat that gives MORE atk speed than agility did is gonna make for some fun build variety.

[formal jacinth]

weapon runes.

[abstract vortex]

lmao when, ive mained rogue for ages and that has never been a thing, they were a bit too strong with the weapon damage stacking but that being removed then them receiving 3 nerfs in a row was seriously overkill

[small furnace]

Planned.

[abstract vortex]

and they have never been able to kill a fighter with 85% pdr in 3 hits, that has never been a thing

[lone crescent]

Back in the day i was full hp with like 190hp and full purple in HR and a naked Rogue with a green castillon 3shotted me and that was normal back in the day. When roaming the dungeon i could even sheate my weapon cause Rogues could kill you before you even get the chance to react

[abstract vortex]

maybe back in the early platests lol, rogue hasnt been anywhere near that in a very long time

removing the heavy weapon damage stacking was a viable nerf to rogues, but the 3 nerfs on top of that directly to the class were completely unnecessary

[lone crescent]

Yeah but sometimes someone comes out saying that Rogue was fine

Now Rogue is fine imho

[abstract vortex]

because yeah having a rogue with +25 weapon dmg scaling with their strength i was doing like 130dmg out of stealth first attack, thats too much

[lone crescent]

HR solo is 50% Rogues

[abstract vortex]

but currently i can put on a full kit of purples and im only doing 75 on first hit out of stealth with perks, its not enough.

[abstract vortex]

yes because of lockpick and the ability to escape mobs, thats it. most hr rogues are naked

[small furnace]

Honestly feel like that's less to do with their ability to kill and more to do with the fact if they don't like an engagement they are the class that can decide to fuck off the easiest over any other class.

[lone crescent]

I can put a full kit of purples with Barbarian and i do 110 dmg per hit with 2hander

Now compare the attack speed

[abstract vortex]

no you can do alot more than that, barb was my other class. blue double ax with shit greens and having headshot dmg and axe perks you deal 140 minimum

[small furnace]

That is to say if you are wearing a kit they are the lowest risk class due to their movespeed, ability to hide, and other such escape options.

[abstract vortex]

so if you only doing 110 with full purps you are doing something wrong with your perks my boy

[lone crescent]

Double axe is not even good, they rush inside you sour spot and you do -40% dmg

[lone crescent]

That's the reason no one uses double axe at all

[abstract vortex]

i agree double axe isnt that good but 110 to the head is not a big number for barbs

unlss you meant 110 to the body and i misunderstood cuz 110 to body is alot

[lone crescent]

It is for a felling axe, with Rage you reach 120/125 on dummy with purple weapon

[abstract vortex]

felling you definitely get higher than that with the damage perks and a full kit

anyways imma scoot got stuff to do, but yeah rogues weak af rn lol

[lone crescent]

The problem is that the damage perks are not in meta, only axe specialization and i'm considering it

Executioner is the other damage perk and it's a wasted slot cause crush, robust and iron will are almost mandatory

Iron will and robust are mandatory, you can replace crush actually if you want

[abstract vortex]

i usually go crush, 2 dmg perks, and iron will

[lone crescent]

And that's fine, but that means you are less tanky and a Rogue can actually kill you with ambush cause he will most likely tank one of your hits

And you don't have time to activate your skills

[abstract vortex]

i dont think ive never died to a rogue as barb other than being in basegear

[lone crescent]

When you start adding throwing knives and crossbow fighting a geared Rogue can be a nightmare, there are times when you just have no chance of winning

[abstract vortex]

one francesca with achilles and the rogue is dead.

[lone crescent]

Yeah but if the Rogue knows what he's doing hitting a francisca is not guaranteed

[abstract vortex]

bruh hitting francescas is easy af

[lone crescent]

Have you ever tried to hit a 330ms Rogue who knows how to dodge?

He can stand still and dodge after the throw

[abstract vortex]

yeah, aim centre mass and they walk into it every time? or wait for the engage amd hit the rogue once with horseman or viking sword? idk ive played both classes this wipe and as a rogue i never fight barbs if i can help it cuz i dont deal enough dmg without full gear to take on even a basekit barb, been killed by them before going in for a fight from ambush and dying in 2 hits

[lone crescent]

The Rogue can spam throwing knives at you without even getting close and your only chance of killing him is hitting 3/4/5 franciscas

They don't "walk into it everytime" if they are good

Cause a francisca axe is so slow that any class is able to dodge it by waiting the Barb to throw it, checking the trajectory and just pressing A or D if they keep enough distance

[soft nebula]

then your playing it wrong, unless they have an agi build, your supposed to poke and prod, and for rogues, once you learn this you become nearly unstoppable

[abstract vortex]

and you do all that while getting donked by his ranger and mage? cmon now, im not talking about solo fights here. in a team fight situation i am never going to even attempt to go for the barb

[soft nebula]

as your not supposed to lol, you gotta be sneaky, flank, go invis, because the moment you have a bit of gear on no squishy class has a SINGLE chance against you

[abstract vortex]

if theyre basekits sure, full gear players are another story

[soft nebula]

if your a kitted rogue to match them it shouldnt be a problem, my friend was running 331 move speed yesterday as a rogue in a mid kit. if you have a trash kit, but they have a good kit, it WILL be a different story, based on the fact its a looter shooter, however i will say right now the speed capabilities for barb are a bit strong, ill give you that

[abstract vortex]

especially with how hard they gutted double jump

[soft nebula]

good lol. you already were so fast why make you ever MORE viable to survive any fight ever, i was running double jump yesterday and i was still getting out of tricky fights so nicely

[bright dome]

Can we reinstate some kinda gear cap in low roll? That was effective in making a level playing field

[abstract vortex]

then you were playing against bad players because that -20 across the board is too much

-30 for 2 sec on landing was a fine penalty, double jump at the wrong time you got caught by the fighter chasing you. now its yet another unusable perk

which the rogue already has too many unusable perks

[ripe turtle]

Race skins need more love in terms of racial traits! Please leave your vote, if you agree! https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/509121/racial-traits-need-to-be-special

[tiny wigeon]

I rather offer no solution then one that hurts the game.
I don’t have experience as a dev so I feel ignorant.
But if I had to try, perhaps increasing the time it takes to open a door or close it ? Perhaps increasing the leash on mobs so they chase u for longer so teams can’t just run around the map ignoring pve and stomping noobs?

[elfin vale]

first half makes it only harder to run, second half is irrelevant because every class is faster than every mob

[small furnace]

It to be kinda funny the guy's proposed solution to timmy stomping was to make doors take longer to open and close so when the timmy's get caught they are less likely to be able to run lmao

[elfin vale]

theres literally no way to stop what u guys want to stop, make separate low lvl queues - theyll just make new char. make mmr - not enough players for it to work, lobbies will have to fill with whats available. gear cap - theyll put on bis (insert cap) gear and queue up for easy games. whites or default gear only, theyll still play it. they will go wherever you go because they like easy games. the unironic answer is to get good

ironman/ssf queue isnt an answer, but itd help a lot.

[drowsy grotto]

In solo's and when you've defeated the team of a squad, let players eat the soul hearts of FULLY DEAD players and get like 20% of your health back.
and add cestuses, I want to fist people with more power. (FIST IN A KILLING SENSE)

[halcyon gull]

would/could there ever be a replay system like PUBG has? i would love to be able to rewatch and analyze games

[timid palm]

maybe make a cancel for potions I don't even care if I get nothing from the potion even if it's destroyed! that would be better then being stuck in the animation when a rogue is stabbing you after coming out of stealth so you're looking at them just drinking a potion DROP THE FING POTION

[tiny wigeon]

Sure but the map has limited space, even if u are faster, if the mob leashes on you for longer eventually u gonna have to slow down

[mortal swallow]

we need a shared stash, tired of having to sell great gear i wanna use on my other classes

[onyx sky]

@mortal swallow I kind of both want and don't want this though. Why would I trade if I can always just give it to one of my alts?

Like I found a purple dagger. WELP time to make a rogue level 1 and give him purple dagger.

[mortal swallow]

why trade if we got merchants? ease of access

[onyx sky]

What if we had shared stash, but it can't be accessed by characters under level 15?

[mortal swallow]

seems redundant

[thin flicker]

That's is false lol only works against noobs, not against people who understand builds

[elfin vale]

takes 2 hrs to get 15

[summer locust]

Merge hide mastery, hidden pockets and creep into one perk and make this rogue class usefull in any possible way

[jolly ledge]

Real

[solemn spade]

crossbows shouldnt do so much fucking damage and also have such a long and powerful slow. how fucking annoying.

[graceful halo]

Wish they would add weapon skills like longsword has. rapier has a stepback dodge then thrust, halberd's right click is the same but peels away shields, spears have a sweep that kills movement speed by 30% for 4 secs, etc. would give more potential for outplay other than positioning and ranged poke, take inspo from mordhau or chivalry but more muted so gear still obviously has purpose.

[ripe turtle]

Race skins need more love in terms of racial traits! Please leave your vote, if you agree! https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/509121/racial-traits-need-to-be-special

[pine comet]

So no more blocking for those weapons?

[coarse night]

whens whipe?

[safe copper]

welp yet another goblen cave venture. I am pretty much basic gear. See red caped crusader so i avoid and go down ramp only to find another high geared player. I fight this one to my demise. they encounter each other and I watched for the big battle only to see both give the friendly node and continue onward looking for low risk targets to kill and take their spoils. I still don't get why this level has to be hoard and trap happy and then encourage no escape from fighting with current portal and death swarm setup. Do you really want newer players to find this game enjoyable? Give them something to work with.

[urban apex]

tbh i have more success playing solo in crypts than gob caves, its such a small map its almost impossible to not run into geared people

[surreal fox]

Nov 22nd

[fast lily]

Yeah this. Goblin caves is more fun if you get into balanced lobbies but Crypts are easier to escape. Goblin cave is more profitable once you can start mining and extracting consistently when solo though.

[twilit kite]

suggestion : devs quit and everyone uninstall this garbage game

[next ridge]

don't worry there's an mmr system guys!!!!! 🙃

[granite plinth]

Do something with chheaters already omg

[ripe turtle]

Report cheaters whenever you see them. Make sure you record these incidents, put them on google drive and send a link to these videos to anti-cheat support. This way you have proof of malicious activity that helps Ironmace a lot in determining who is doing what.

[limber elbow]

The developers of this game are really stupid, instead of completing the new update and then announcing the update date then they can rest and fix small bugs and manage the server and hackers in the game, instead Then they rushed to announce it, then rushed to finish the update and neglected the bug-filled server because hackers were rampant and a bunch of teaming and over gear were running around in normal mode, instead of just needing gear score mode. In solo mode, they attached all modes and then even solo mode into a garbage dump they created

[limber elbow]

From a good, slow game, the Devs turned it into a Deadline game with countless Quests, many modes, and in just 1 month deleted everything. Devs should realize that all players sympathize with many Beta tests because it is in the testing phase, and to be honest, the testing phase is better than now, even though having to wait a few months and then start from scratch is different from Wipe is like running a dead line at the company

[tiny wigeon]

Countless quests? Many modes? Bro what are you smoking?
Stop giving feedback to anything , please, nobody needs feedback from you

[granite plinth]

fix the game, mmr doesnt work, reporting doesnt work, hello fix your game already ffs

[tiny wigeon]

Great suggestion for the suggestion channel 👍

[gentle mist]

Remove throwables and make fight need a perk to use ranged weapons

[gray sand]

add report button to trade channels for ability to report website chat spammers and ppl selling gear for $

[rigid prawn]

Rework highroller as a pve focused mode and make normals the pvp focused mode since the pvp players seem to like the limited pve and highroller has turned into an escape from the juicers.

Ante optional, release future maps with this design in mind.

[mystic yoke]

Give the Druids two things - a wolf/werewolf mode, the bear was talked about in the podcast recently and bears are cool and cute and all, but I don't want to be a bear I want to be a wolf. And two, GOODBERRIES, let us cast a spell that grows a little bush with berries we or our friends (or anyone really) can eat for a little health back.

[plush sky]

DOn't think they do enoiugh to enforce rules tbh. Even though its been bannable for ages to team up on GC and both actively kill somebody, it's still beyond common. I'm seeing a lot more ignoring each other, fine, don't mind that. But the getting jumped by multiple people when you spectate and they just run in 2s 3s is a joke

[abstract vortex]

i actually love that bush berry idea hahahah thats so good

[coral sable]

READ THIS :https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/504333/the-3-floor-dungeon-with-the-removal-of-highroller

[hallow cargo]

Yep still refusing to play the game for that reason

[heavy stirrup]

can we get something done about rogues and barbs carrying 20 throwables and just spamming them

[muted crag]

Get the asians off the US servers for the love of hell.

[worn lava]

I think the matchmaking needs to be tweaked little bit more

[small ibex]

Trap Mastery on Ranger needs to be gutted or just straight up removed. Using bear traps is already a cheap tactic. It doesn't need a perk to help it

Or increase the cost and arming time of traps

[ornate vault]

Why don't invisible rogues footprints show with the ranger "chase perk"...
Guy went invis in front of me. Was obviously moving but his tracks weren't appearing

This was in the troll room in GC...

[cinder bloom]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/509329/throwable-slots
Not a cry about balance or something unattainable. Let me know what you think.

[graceful frost]

nobody used trap mastery lol. and its not great. traps need to get gutted, the perk isnt the issue lol

[granite plinth]

anyone know when the wipe is expected ?

[ripe turtle]

Race skins need more love in terms of racial traits! Please leave your vote, if you agree! https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/509121/racial-traits-need-to-be-special

[drowsy grotto]

Yes dark and darker low roller solos should be played with the upmost gear

[soft nebula]

hear me out, what if for normie runs, we added in a gear taxation. the taxation calculates gear, attributes and more however this taxation doesnt start until your gear is very good, and it starts off minor and has a significant curve. for example a barb with full blue gear, and moderate rolls, the game would calculate and give you a gear rating, base being 100, and the kit im talking about being about 250 or so, which might be where the taxation begins, seing full purples reaching around 350 or so gear score. at full blue we could see a 15 or so gear tax, and at full purple it could jump up to about 45g. full legendaries shouldnt really be an occurance in norms, so this would bring your gear score up to 500 or so, and bring your tax up to around 90g. this is just me conceptizing but i feel like it could give you a little discomfort in going into norms with such high levels of gear.

i realize this game is based around looting and getting an advantage, but once your full purples, it becomes incredibly painful for the little guys, so you can still run it, just at a price

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/509332/taxation

[dense sentinel]

Please change Rogue crossbow perk to Small Ranged Mastery, and allow use of survival bow AND hand crossbow! https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/509335/rogue-crossbow-perk-allows-use-of-hand-crossbow-and-survival-bow

[formal jacinth]

Make it so a lvl 4 ranger cant match with a lvl 20 wizard with full purple and a cape 😊

[light hound]

I think it makes more sense to just lock out gear that cannot be found in that game type, so Purple max in normals

[light hound]

Another vote for MM

[latent wadi]

I think we should have something like a daily free high roller run, or maybe something similar. Something to give more incentive to those that are playing daily.

[obtuse stone]

cleric should have a viable playstyle outside of submissive support kitten

[fathom bolt]

it is viable
https://medal.tv/games/dark-and-darker/clips/1Eps0HnrfMZAT9/d1337Ar0oNPb?invite=cr-MSx3SFMsMjA1OTI2OTQ2LA

frontline cleric is also good in meta comps

[obtuse stone]

you're pretty lucky the he decided to bring 2 melee weapons instead of a crossbow like a human being

[fathom bolt]

well crossbows are an issue for everyone

[obtuse stone]

like I exaggerate about cleric being unplayable but if you bring war maul into HR you are actually never going to hit anyone with it

[fathom bolt]

yeah probably but ive seen people run the morning star on a frontline cleric and do very well, looks like a lot of fun tbh

[obtuse stone]

and if you do it's only going to be handle hits while the rogue or whatever is hitting you in the face with a rapier 3x faster

[odd coyote]

i'd much prefer all cosmetics to be literally purely cosmetic and nothing else

[granite plinth]

I feel like the game needs some form of inter-wipe progression. Maybe vault tabs should increase proportionally in cost but you keep the space between wipes, something like that that lets you feel like you're building to a purpose within each wipe

[magic yacht]

This is something that has been discussed in a previous q and a I believe

[small furnace]

I would absolutely love it if they made lizard skin purely cosmetic.

I love my scaled boi but god it feels awful not being able to use a helmet.

[magic yacht]

Hopefully we see how they handle races moving forward sometime in the near future 🙂

[small furnace]

I hadn't heard the notion of them making stuff purely cosmetic before, but it would definitely be a welcome change in my book :3 Especially since the lizard head hitbox isn't actually 'different' as they claimed it was haha #dnd-memes-only message

[soft nebula]

vit rly doesnt tho, that just takes away from the looter aspect of the game, if you get a legendary as a trash player, suddenly you just.. cant use it? thats boring, and makes legendary loot in a loot centered game the same as a dusting trophy especially in a game where so many dislike hr

[soft nebula]

with survival bow being so fast, and rogue being so fast, this would be EXTREMELY bad. if your a fighter with no range or a barb, you have no counter play, the hand crossbow is weak enough that it cant be abused, but survival bow would work with rogues abilities super well, considering they can be combined with bows. its the reason so many people despise rangers and this would be even WORSE on a rogue who stacks strength.

[slim dove]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/509358/shorten-countdown-timer-in-lobbies-to-120s shorten the cooldown on lobby

[worn lava]

So I've been watching some YouTube videos, YouTube short clips and tiktok videos of old dark and darker there is this nostalgic fun feeling the environment It seems to be fun for people back then. A lot of video games when they start off. They have those nostalgic moments, happy fun times something that just made people love the game but after a bunch of changes a bunch of updates later on maybe months or years they lost it and they lost that feeling they gave people and it feels like an entirely new game. Kind of like what happened to Halo or fortnite I hope you guys keep that same feeling you gave people the first time anyone ever came on to this game you don't get rid of it You don't make too many changes turning it into an entirely different game That feels different and gives different feeling I want to make a note that old videos to new videos of this game in the past It didn't seem so competitive. It more seemed like a fun time to come home from work and hop on the game now It just seems very competitive

[dense sentinel]

people dislike rangers because they die fast to them from long range, not because they hit fast, its a damage problem, not an attack speed if we arent talking about multishot. if they remove the hit slow from arrows, then this is not a problem and functions no different from hand crossbow. it probably does about the same damage, which like i said is mediocre and only useful with Ranger because of his multishot. Without access to multishot and having to reknock the arrow with Rogue is not going to feel the same from the enemies perspective.

[soft nebula]

once again, rogue is the fastest class in the game, combined with survival bow, your still incredibly fast, rogue are really good at super close range or they stay sneaky and stay back, theyre already in a phenominal spot why give them this range?

[drowsy grotto]

Make changes based on the gamemode, solos should have certain changes that trios shouldn't.
It'd fix close to every issue with the game including the fact that barbs are insanely strong in solos although decently balanced in trios.

[graceful frost]

simple solution to this gear issue. make hr much better and much more appealing. would easily decrease the amount of low roller juicers by a ton. most of them arent there to farm nakeds

[drowsy grotto]

If they made it so purple+ gear wasn't able to be gotten from low roller and seperated epic+ gear from other >epic+ gear without limiting what lobbies you are in, that'd fix the issue imo.
Then just made hr the same but with better gear chances. (Because if you're naked in hr, you shouldn't get away with not fighting stronger players)

[graceful frost]

non of this was from the changes lol. it was from the playerbase. when you give players months to optimize a hardcore game they will optimize. it has nothing to do with the devs changes since the game has barely changed, people have just had time to abuse everything possible.

[soft nebula]

imo hr is fine, i dont even pvp and im always coming out with loot, rogues would thrive even more if its made better, if anything they should make it a ranked system and make it so new hr players go against other new hr players and more experienced with more experienced and buff the loot at higher tiers of hr play, that along side the other benefits they said hr would have in the future should make it alot more desireable

capping loot in norms is a heavy bummer for immersion, with a tax rate with better gear score i feel like it would make it just a pinch more undesireable for players to go geared into non hr

[graceful frost]

the hr loot is ass. played solo rogue in it for like 2 hours and made much less than i did with norms. the only thing worth about it is hr hell and everything about hell sucks with multiple teams, inferno level is ass for pvp and most of the nightmare mobs are horribly designed. Half of this issue stems from the fee, the fee is ass.

I have never had fun in hr nor made enough money to make it worth it. and no matter how "dead" the ppl claim the game mode is I always find the most juiced players and streamers the second I play it. and hr gc is complete ass and your lucky to make profit

[soft nebula]

i just played it naked as a ranger and came out with 450g in profit, gold is not the idea for hr, its the actual loot, and selling it, which is something that does need to be updated which they are with the flea market

[graceful frost]

all the loot I have gotten from hr has been more or less terrible. especially with how impossible it was to sell loot this wipe. you shouldnt have to go hr, go to hell and then spend an hour selling gear just to make money from it.

There is a reason nobody is playing it. and it isnt cause the gold fee is good and the loot is worth

[soft nebula]

honestly i wonder how the new ice map is gonna do considering it might spread the playerbase out more

[graceful frost]

i mean it might just kill the game mode even more than it is already dead.

The only thing making me wanna play it is the ranked rewards, have something more to work to and have a reason to play such a worthless game mode. since the gold you make isnt a good reason, nor is the pvp where its play meta or lose, at least in most cases like if you dont have a cleric in 3's. and half the solos classes are a throw to play imo

[soft nebula]

they are apperently updating it so that to get into hr you dont use gold anymore i heard, that might make it alot more desireable and profitable

[graceful frost]

that is what I am really hoping.

[soft nebula]

holy sht the moment i qued for a hr i got the worst stomach pains of my life u know what u right hr sucks omg

[graceful frost]

one thing I can say though is with no fee it would be nice to have some sort of deterent from like no gear rats

[slim raft]

default players and newbs getting rolled by BIS juicers and progressing not at all. because level ones que in the same lobbies, fix ur game.

[carmine tinsel]

A warlock perk that summons a phantom weapon and costs 20 hp, the weapon will do magical damage and heal 5 per attack, uses the spell wheel in game to select between a longsword, a halberd, a zwiehander, a bardiche, and a quarter staff, these are all two handed weapons that the warlock can currently use

[fair oasis]

I wish!!! I still need to build agility on rogue to outrun any other class ; ^ ;

[crimson furnace]

Not sure if this is the place to ask, but does souls collector works with blow of corruption?

[eternal jay]

Why is there NO deal for BLACK FRIDAY for us w8ing to buy the game ?

[gloomy anchor]

I think the grey only cave idea is great what i do think needs to happen is it be its own map then everybody is happy 🙂 like maybe the original goblin cave map greys/whites only call it beginner cave ! bobs your uncle

[lone crown]

please fix the smite bug on cleric. there are so many times where i click it and it doesnt activate first try

[ripe turtle]

Fist weapons for extra unarmed damage?

[proud sigil]

@dawn grotto Make gear cap to white max please. So casters classes can buy and use spellbook

[weak zenith]

#📢announcements

[drowsy grotto]

Without the fee, there would be no downside to running hr. If you somehow can't get like two blue or green trinkets, you're the issue not HR. (Skill issued individual)

[thorny olive]

@keen onyx give book to mages then. Going with starter bonker will be pain in ass for all mages

[lone crescent]

Hear me out trade is the key issue, no i'm not saying they need to remove trade, i'm saying that they need to make trade easier and faster.

Why you may ask?

People don't play HR cause gold overall is worthless once you get enough gear and they don't want to lose their 1k/2k/5k (or more) set cause building a set like that will take many hours of gameplay or many hours of trading.

If anyone with enough money can just open the trade and build a BiS set in 10 minutes they will be naturally pushed to HR cause gold will be useful again and they don't need to fear their death anymore with less time investment to get their set.

The problem has never been money the problem is the time investment you need to build a good set and that needs to be reduced by a lot

[languid swift]

I assume you're suggesting an auction house?

[lone crescent]

An auction house (or something similar) is already planned

This was my response in general to people saying that players don't go in HR cause they have gear fear

I want to hear others opinions but i got ignored there

[languid swift]

I would mostly agree with the concept. I don't like shopping with the current trade methods.

I don't engage with HR a whole lot, but when I did was during that stint when there was a lot of gear being thrown around. As a result I'm not sure I can fully agree that gear fear isn't a pretty big factor.

That said, as I don't engage with the trade, the gear I do get is exclusively at the cost of time, so that doesn't necessarily contradict what you said.

[outer niche]

They need to buff merchants, would make a massive difference with how bad trading is and I doubt an auction house will have a bag impact, if merchants had more greens and blues ppl would be in games straight away rather than spending an hour after every death tryna get looted

[lone crescent]

This wipe i hoarded a bunch of money but i have no real way of spending it, even if they boost merchants i don't need some blues, i need good blues and purples and above and trade is dead, my only source of gear is the dungeon and money is absolutely useless for me

[outer niche]

Atleast with buffed merchants you’d have a chance to build up decent loot after 3-4 games if you kept looking, plus the merchant right now is completely obsolete after 2 weeks into wipe cause of how bad the loot is

Also prices need lowered. 100 gold for a blue is pointless when the rolls are most likely ass and the average player could take 2-3 games just to save for a single item

[lone crescent]

Yeah but if you make the merchants too strong you make trade useless

[outer niche]

Ofc they’d need to find the right middle ground, but you can’t deny that traders are pointless a week or two into wipe

Especially when you compare it to tarkov or marauders, you can get a kit in minutes that has the chance to kill far more looted players if you play it right

[lone crescent]

Merchants are bad yeah especially cause 3/4 of the gear is not even for your class

[lone crescent]

That's good, we need that same possibility in DaD

[outer niche]

Bro the woodsman can show 5-6 bows and you might not even get a blue. And you already know nobody’s buying a green or lower survival

[lone crescent]

I never ever got any decent regal gambeson, barbuta helm, germunbu or viking helm

[hardy vector]

leg shot shouldnt stack with normal ranger slow

-60%ish ms is horrible and u cant do anything cuz they will keep leg shotting u

[nimble igloo]

When they do the naked only lobbies tomorrow they should allow white gear

[hardy vector]

traders have gotten me more gold than killing people and selling their gear, nobody checks them enough. you can find bis blues or craftables in them and sell them for quadruple what u bought them for.

[quick rivet]

equipment items should have usable rolls only and the tier is determined by the quality of those rolls, its useless to have magical healing on a rapier f.e. Another suggestion is to nerf the damage of chain lightning after the first hit, its simply frustrating to die from a oneshot of the spell even not being able to see the wizard or when they use a corpse to make the spell jump

[bright dome]

Maybe a crafting skill would be cool, I’ve always liked being the guy that buys a bunch of materials and can get better and better perks to resell

Maybe I’m more thinking of an mmo then an economy extract eh?

[hardy vector]

so basically you cant get good greens or blues because all of the good rolls will be purples and oranges and all of the bad ones will be greens and blues, causing greens and blues to be vendored and sold for 50g while purples and oranges will be sold for 500+

[quick rivet]

you can still get good gear f.e. a green marauder outfit with +2A +5PW as you do now. I simply feel like 90/95% of gear you find isnt worth it because of useless rolls

[mystic yoke]

Pretty much I would imagine if playstyles were implemented and encouraged that could make plenty of money without always going into the dungeons, then people would go into the dungeons less, and that would be a bad thing

[bright dome]

True, I think I’m just getting the crave to buy a vr set and start forging. My only interest as far as the game goes though is to be able to support my various mechanic learning in the game without too much of a hassle

[limpid zodiac]

Sell/move(to be sold) all collectables button along with organize stash/inventory button

[quasi kindle]

Add Chicago or Dallas servers pls

[ripe turtle]

Race skins need more love in terms of racial traits! Please leave your vote, if you agree! https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/509121/racial-traits-need-to-be-special

[soft nebula]

That’s why you should build agility, or strength since strength scales BEST on rogue, should be your 2 main focuses unless your planning on rocking a poison build, my friend got it so that every stack of poison matched the damage from one rapier attack, which was 30 base, doubling to 60 with the poison

[hardy vector]

that would be a blue or purple according to what u said

[quick rivet]

i already have that kind of gear

[hardy vector]

ok? 😭

[soft nebula]

Kinda wish they capped gear at white instead of junk, some classes struggle SUPER hard on base kits and it’s why we buy grey books or short swords

[graceful frost]

well the downside is the risk. more geared players, harder mobs. However I do think although free hr is the way to go, they need to do something about the issue of nakes just running through rooms, especially rogues that lootgoblin with no gear or risk

[mystic yoke]

Normal lobbies being a place nobody wants to be when they have any amount of gear would be a good thing, I think. The whole point of HR is to take your gear into it for higher rewards, and that is not incentivized enough for the majority of the player base right now

[worn lava]

yeah perhaps that's how it always been but the changes changed it also

[hardy vector]

remove mmr matchmaking

its not fun to be playing casually, get into a 0 geared lobby and get out, just for ur next one to have a full orange rogue and a cinder fighter

[soft apex]

you always risk time, I think dungeons in general are just missing goals to accomplish. If the only thing you get out of a dungeon is gear that gives you more advantage to get more gear... Well people are just going to optimize that. You may not like it, but naked rogues running past mobs is what peak performance looks like, for that game.

[thorny grove]

So, they need to make a junk grade pickaxe, as well as some other junk grade items perhaps, so they're usable.

[drowsy grotto]

Who cares about risk when you don’t have gear?
“Oh no I don’t want to lose my 3 damage arming sword!!!”

[proud sigil]

@dawn grotto @keen onyx Hello, please make normal lobbys with only white or green gear max please.

[mystic yoke]

I think HR right now is neither difficult enough nor rewarding enough, it should be the only place you want to go and you should be hesitant to go naked (but still possible)

[small furnace]

@short heath Opinion on the current change they're testing?

I think even if we are going the route of trying to test MM this is probably not a good idea, but it definitely would work in forcing more people to HR, though I think that's... too many people myself. Probably about 80% of the playerbase or more is gonna head to HR with only base kits being usable in normals and HR being free.

[formal wadi]

#📢announcements

[proud sigil]

?

[short heath]

Mixed feelings. It's a good permanent game mode for new and casual players to learn the game on and just mess around with - and it's good for testing certain things... but all of that really only applies if the game is actually finished. Right now it is going to serve as a detriment in my opinion, with the exception of giving timmies a place to live for 3 days.

In future iterations, it's best suited to either be an LTE or if made permanent, there still needs to be a step between HR and whatever they will call this game mode (naked Timmy land???), both for the sake of progression and for those who still aren't confident in their ability to tackle the increased difficulty of pve but also don't want to just keep running base kits.

As far as how well the free entry to HR is concerned, I think they're only doing that because they're turning no-ante into Timmy land, and not making it a separate queue, so once people fill their stashes they will have to take that gear somewhere even if they haven't necessarily gotten better or made enough money to consistently run HR while the likelihood is still high that they'll just not get out for like 5 runs in a row. It will be interesting to see how many people legit just don't play at all because their preferred game mode (murder timmies in no-ante) is now gone for 3 days... I think there will be more people being forced into HR, sure, but not because they want to be or think that it is magically "worth it" all of a sudden, so that's really an artificial statistic and isn't worth considering.

[small furnace]

Yeah, I don't think HR should be forced into being the de-facto gamemode for anyone that doesn't want to play with greys.

I know they put no-ante on HR because you literally can't play normals with whites anymore, but this just seems like too extreme of a measure for me to get behind. As you kind of echoed, this kind of forces people into HR, not because they want to play it but because there's no alternative for the game. I don't think that's a good way of having the game, and if there is to be a 'timmy-queue' I don't think the game should merely be timmy queue and HR with no in-between.

[hardy vector]

remove the mmr system

[short heath]

I don't think they've disclosed what they're even using as metrics to determine mmr. I'm interested in why you think it should be removed, since that's the case.

[hardy vector]

when you do good for one game, that has naked people when ur naked and get out, ur next game has full kit purples and blues from what im seeing. i did good as barb for one game in norms against also naked people, just for the next game to have 9-10 caped people and one with viola

[small furnace]

I do think the attempt at SBMM has been misguided, if they are gonna do an MMR system I would rather it be based upon gear and not something as abusable as SBMM for a game like this.

Obviously I might be talking out my ass because we have no idea how it works, and they're not really being transparent about it either... but in general I think MOST SBMM systems for a game like this would not be very good.

[short heath]

If what @hardy vector said is really how it is, then yeah it's trash. Like... it shouldn't be a 50/50 split between "did you make it out last game" or "did you not make it out last game".

[hardy vector]

ill tell you rn

in a norms after a loss, 2 geared people. we r gonna do boss and get out then ill tell u how much

[small furnace]

SBMM just won't work for a game like this unless it is also taking into account the gear you are wearing when you do it.

Cause you can go in with a base timmy kit and die 10 times to get your MMR to the lowest possible place, then go in with blues/purples to freely stomp a lobby for free.

While I don't really want ANY MMR system, if they ARE going to do it I would much rather GBMM than SBMM.

[short heath]

TCF is the only game that did SBMM/GBMM fusion well, imo, and it didn't get implemented until too late and servers were already slated for getting alt+F4'd.

If TCF had their MMR system in the game during s2 when they had their anticheat finally working well, I don't think the game would have died. I think it would have been extremely successful.

[small furnace]

Well if they ARE going to do any type of SBMM for this game they certainly need to take into account how abusable it could be.

It would unironically be the best strat to tank your MMR before going in with your best gear to do something like bossing, or going to inferno etc. Which is bad, cause I don't think the game should ever incentivize that, and I don't think that being completely opaque about how your MMR works is going to prevent people from figuring it out in the long run anyway. (Which seems to be the strategy they're taking now)