suggestion-discussion

[open jacinth]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487461/gear-scaling-for-hrnormals

[rare sparrow]

my complaint is simple. there is nothing stopping Repoze or JayGriff from wearing their 100k gold kit, teaming up with others in the same situation, and proceding to steamroll any and all normal lobbies they join. why are they allowed to do this? sure, theyre good at this game and have done a good job working for end game kits, but does that mean they should be able to freely use these end game kits on players that have never played this game before? it is a pretty common and uninviting atmosphere to work a few hours for an okay kit just to be randomly placed into a lobby with a group you'll never kill and all they want to do is kill all other groups. you cannot run 10 raids without experiencing something along those lines. i'd like new players to enjoy their gameplay and currently it seems difficult for that to happen. and this is only like 2 weeks after wipe lmao. only gonna get worse and worse

[twin dagger]

Soooo... You're suggesting like, level based matchmaking?

[rare sparrow]

nope. i made it clear what i am suggesting. it is nothing definite or tangible. i just know the current state of "you can have nothing and be matched up against someone who has best in slot gear making it so that the only way you survive is if the juicer team does not notice you over the duration of the entire raid" doesn't seem to be a great way to retain players

[analog barn]

Example: Tarkov is absolutely way more sweaty of a game and they have WAY more incentive for new players to come In.
They have scav runs(free money), karma system to help stop griefers and sweaty losers, and they literally start you with a whole loadout and 500k.
Just because a game is genred as "hardcore loot extraction" doesnt mean it has to have 0 help for new players or at all.
A level 1 "timmy" with a 7mm toz buckshot(worst gun and ammo in the game) can one shot a "chad:" if you aim right at their head or blow their legs off where there's no armor.
This game 100% caters to no life's way more than it should off rip in my opinion.

[twin dagger]

I agree wholeheartedly but I can't think of a great equalizer without infringing on higher level play

[short heath]

It was happening on day 1 following the wipe, by the way. I actually got ran through by a Wizard/Bard/Fighter trio in full blue/purple on day 1 in no-ante Crypts.

[abstract swallow]

there doesn't need to be a single, big equalizer
there needs to be several smaller ones, the first of which is bringing back some sort of first floor for Crypts so the game isn't balanced centered around starting halfway through the progression

as long as new players are going into the same dungeon level that people are getting their first blues and purples on, you're going to see sweatsquads stomping people's guts out, and half of them aren't even going to be intentionally punching down

[forest ice]

Take away Wiz being able to invis other people 😫

[analog barn]

@twin dagger and that's where we all disagree unfortunately. We need to find a steady median for Lowe levels and higher levels to be relatively happy.
No one is gonna be 100% happy but maybe we can find a middle ground.

[twin dagger]

I feel like maybe having dungeons with poorer loot pools, but restrictions on gear you can bring in would be good
But that sounds super boring

[rare sparrow]

it is quite simple at least to mitigate the clear outliers. do not allow 3 stacks into regular dungeons with full legendary gear. not sure how that would work, but it simply should not be allowed. i don't even think you can get a legendary gear piece out of regular dungeon and if you can then it is from the boss only. youre telling me there are teams of 3 walking aroound in full leg? the same leg that have an insanely low / 0% drop rate out of the dungeon theyre in? nah

[onyx orbit]

Why Not Just make shop torches have the ability to emit a magical aura that reveals invis? Call em magic torches and make them like green flame to stand out, or white

but make em like 30g a torch?

[forest ice]

50 makes more sense ^ if they’re too cheap, the rogue community is going to go insane 😂

[onyx orbit]

Cause who honestly buys torches?

[twin dagger]

Invis =/= sneak
i hope

[stuck perch]

I'm not saying gear needs to be the determining factor in matches. But removing it from the equation is the wrong move to make, and that's what gear based match making will push towards. I'd rather spread out the players a bit more so even if new players don't extract, they still had fun playing the game for 5mins before jumping in the next match. Jumping back into a match as a naked new player takes next to no time. And before they ever get destroyed in pvp they'll need to learn how to fight the mobs.

[onyx orbit]

50g might be too much though for some people scraping by, making it harder for broke players to potentially deal with a rouge who already has nuts lethal potential with just a gray dagger

[rare sparrow]

if torches start revealing rogues then I'll actually start to complain

[rare geode]

Can we getting a training room to test out gear and attributes to see damage before loading into a match? Or to just practice swinging and or dodging?
Seems pretty easy to impliment

[onyx orbit]

So dswizzle, Not ALL torches. just a special type of torch that can by bought for 50g. regular torches still available

[stuck perch]

If it's not a common occurrence why is it a problem? It definitely is too common now, but that could be reduced instead of just cheaping out and putting a hard cap on who gets to play.

[forest ice]

Rogues are already broken - especially for the rogues that wait as long as they have to in a room for a single kill. Ambush + weakpoint (even rupture) is more than enough to 2-3 tap most characters

[abstract swallow]

you don't need a gearcap, that just creates a limit to exploit so you can stomp new/weak players freely
you just need to introduce repair costs and make the first/fastest/easiest to access content is not very rich
if the first level before Crypts is all grey/white/green loot and silver coins, it becomes a lot harder to pay for nonstop stompage kits, especially if taking all those fights makes it riskier and saps supplies needed for delving deeper into the dungeon to make back your investment on gear (and, ideally, pay for more expensive repairs for high-tier gear)

[onyx orbit]

To make sure people don't magic torch spam you could give the magic torches a charge, until it just becomes a normal torch

And the charge only activates if you throw the torch, no just holding it out. maybe like 3 charges?

[rare sparrow]

one of my friends loaded into a goblin cave and immediately clipped into a wall and died. he later realized this was an insanely rare bug the team was aware of and had patched the day it happened to him. why'd they patch it if it was not a common occurrence? because it was super broken. how could it be reduced? nobody else that i am aware of has provided any insight as to how this could be reduced. most people hear me say gear score and immediately bash it for some unknown reason. theyre not reading what i am writing

[stuck perch]

That may be the only option, but before we get to that I'd rather a softer incentive fix be used, combined with a cap on the rarity of loot found in a given map.

[flint pollen]

Anyone think that the current barb meta is sorta going down the wrong path the fact that such a tanky character can pick up a horseman's axe and swing the same rate as fighter dealing more dps at the same time and not being able to really be punished because the recover time on the horseman's axe takes nothing.

[onyx orbit]

and if you just keep it laying on the ground maybe its like a 20sec charge if its left on the ground just not being picked up

[neat mantle]

Why no Flail?

[stuck perch]

You're talking about a bug that wasn't supposed to happen over the choices made by players.

[rare sparrow]

you are acknowledging that it is definitely too common right now lol and say it can be reduced but offer no thoughts as to how it could be reduced. i can tell you this, it certainly wont become less common if nothing is done about it... you think players are gonna stop taking free loot?

[feral prism]

Instead of having gear caps why dont you just add some type of Lvl based match making
There will still be outliers and it will still be possible for new players to get f'ed over but it would prevent the problem of new players coming across these players and loosing intrest immediately

[rare sparrow]

my point is that broken things get fixed. if you don't think this is broken then that is where we are divided. i dont think level one new players should be capable of being placed into lobbies with level 20 500+ hour juice boys with literally BIS gear

[twin dagger]

I mean, full legendary geared players rolling a lobby is just a Chad doing the same

But I can kill chads if I play tactfully and have support

Maybe the issue is you feel you can't kill these versions of chads?

[stuck perch]

What are you talking about, I've spoken about my ideas for fixing the issue several times even including some of what you said in my revisions.

[stuck perch]

Yeah they might learn something from the better players. Wouldn't that be shocking?

[rare sparrow]

well then i am closed minded and have not seen your replies. for that i apologize

[toxic cloak]

Stop balancing the game and release Druid

[abstract swallow]

epics being available in Crypts was a big mistake
you should not pull multiple blue and purple pieces out of a single crypts-only run like you do right now, on the trade market that can easily be worth 3x a normal, shop-only stash earned in the first 10 levels and it means everyone and their brother is overgeared for the content and against new players

[rare sparrow]

funny part is that skill has very little to do with it. you'd hope theres some sort of takeaway but sometimes the takeaway is "wow, that guys stats are all way higher than mine. i couldn't have escaped if i tried" those situations should not exist simply because some geared chads decide they dont wanna die and would rather roll people with no / minimal gear

[feral prism]

In my opinion 3 stacking is not all that busted, Just rat around them instead of engaging them. maybe make portals spawn more at the sides of the ring instead of the middle? maybe increase the likely hood of finding invis pots? Maybe just have hell be easier to do solo so more people take that instead of just leaving. Point is its a tricky subject

You also have to think about the 3 stack in this situation, because if you just nerf 3 stacks a large part of the games playerbase will just not be having as much fun if you nerf just that part, it has to be fair.

Also something to consider is that 2 stacks are pretty busted when you look at them the same way you look at 3 stacks, But thats just the nature of it. If your out numbered your probably going to loose the fight unless you have better gear or out play them significantly.

[rare sparrow]

how are two stacks busted but three stacks not busted

[feral prism]

"When you look at them the same way you look at 3 stacks"

[rare sparrow]

as in a full team? two stacks are busted when you look at them as a full team when in fact they are 2/3 of a team?

well shit i guess i havent been looking at my two stack hard enough

[feral prism]

Not as a full team but in the perspective of your out numbered

[solid mortar]

I was talking to my friend while he was playing in the goblin cave and it occurred to me, would it be broken that the rangers had the ability to poison their arrows too? and if yes then steal the poisoned arrows from the goblins corpses?

[feral prism]

cant be upset about being outnumbered and getting shit on when there are litterally more people to fight

[solid mortar]

just food for thought

[feral prism]

Can be upset about these guys just completely stomping lobbies though, thats stupid.

[rare sparrow]

this is true. im just talking about the situation where you know your outnumbered but it doesn't matter because you are facing someone who is too geared for you to escape

[feral prism]

Well then how do you add more escape options for people who are more geared without also making the 3 stack more powerful, Also this is more of an issue with gear then 3 stacks.

[rare sparrow]

prevent overly geared 3 stacks from playing with rookies. been saying it this whole time. not sure what that looks like but you'll never convince me that rookies playing with 500+ hour god set trios is just "part of the game"

[feral prism]

This is no reason to add a gear cap on a dungeon, Instead, like i said already, add a level based match making.

[rare sparrow]

we will simply disagree here then. nothing wrong with that

[twin dagger]

I will say that when I come up against a duo or trio, escape is always the best option
And I do so because that's the strength of a rogue
So as far as that goes I'm not really aware enough of the issues other classes face

[rare sparrow]

level based matchmaking will do absolutely nothing as reaching level 20 is easy and is not indicative of the gear you have

[feral prism]

.

[stuck quail]

gear based matchmaking will do nothing except kill the game

[rare sparrow]

it is off to a decent start and i'm not going to poke holes in anything because any suggestions are better than none

[distant axle]

Could maybe do some sort of "gearscore" system that puts you in with similar geared players. Only problem is that takes away those moments where you can third party or out-smart geared players to get big upgrades.

[stuck quail]

And it makes gear pointless... lol

[rare sparrow]

gear based matchmaking won't impact the game negatively at all if all it does is prevent people with god kits from playing with people with no kits. no effect to the gameplay other than low skill chads being upset they no longer have a massive competitive advantage

[short heath]

This.

[stuck quail]

If someone is low skill they wont have gear in the first place

[rare sparrow]

go ahead and continue attacking anything but the point im making

[twin dagger]

Maybe a new dungeon level where it's only for base classes, no gear allowed?
Good training area if nothing else

[stuck perch]

I was going to say, watch how they play and learn how to handle mobs and players, and look a fight from their eyes so you know what to expect.

[distant axle]

Then maybe some hidden MMR that is based on your player kills? Only problem there is, if you lose a kit, you end up going in base kit to a dungeon full of kitted players again. Probably wouldn't work.

[stuck quail]

The point your making makes no sense.

[ember maple]

Rangers should be able to use a long sword (perk usage tho)

[rare sparrow]

no worries. others seem to understand

[feral prism]

This is wrong, Getting to lvl 20 is not an indicator of gear, but its an indicator of not only experience but fairness aswell. Someone who is making level 1 characters to shit on noobs is not the issue at hand but its the overly geared 3 stacks that run into low experience gamers. they will only be ruining players games for a couple of games before they level up enough to get to get out of low level lobbys, that are full of noobs.

[stuck quail]

Rangers should be able to use full plate armor and cast healing spells

[twin dagger]

Heck, mage Rangers be able to use bardic magic too, why not
/s

[stuck quail]

rangers should have sprint and invisibility too

[feral prism]

Unlike the issue right now it wont be every single game but only a couple, keep in mind escaping and getting a crap ton of loot gives you alot of experience

[rare sparrow]

i think this is a good starting point

[ember maple]

I guess you guys really never played DND before

[stuck perch]

What do you say to the player who convinces his friend to play but can't play with him because all his characters are too high level and he has one of each class so he can't just start another without deleting one he likes playing?

[feral prism]

Glad i could change your mind, Gear based matchmaking would only allow greifers to run more rampant as they would have a significant advantage over low level gamers by simply having not only more experience but also more perks at there disposal.

[feral prism]

Make it so you play with the highest level in your lobby as the base line

[stuck perch]

Ok so what do you do when that friend gives his new friend a bunch of epic loot to start him off and he takes that back into the lower queue?

[rare sparrow]

when i say gear based matchmaking. i am not saying there should be multiple buckets that people are sorted into. i am saying gear based matchmaking in the most loose form possible. where the only real matchmaking system in place is one that prevents absolute top tier end game juicers to queue into lobbies with 0 hour rookies. not where people with gear score 100 - 200 are in one pool, 201 - 300 in another pool, etc. that would be horrendous

[ember maple]

Only limiting the game will make it worse

[feral prism]

The player will escape, thus leveling themselves up and getting out of the low level lobbies

again its not to make it never happen again, its to make it not every single game for new players

[stuck perch]

or he'll kill off the entire lobby because unlike him, they're still trying to figure out how to kill a skeleton. This is even worse if someone who's actually decent creates a smurf character so they can hang out in the lower MM tier with not other goal than to pulverize newbs.

[broken perch]

please fix what ever this horrible stutter lag is it is so frustrating that it was addressed once then never actually fixed and looked over. `a 2060 graphics card with a 10600k should not even remotely be struggling. im going to assume its a net issue but even then its not on my end given its happening to others as well as the fact i actually have a great connection

[lime crown]

What did the devs do to the male bard model 😔

[feral prism]

Only to what, get out of the low level lobbys and create a new character again? this logic makes no sense, and i dont see anyone actually going this length to stomp new players as unlike some communitys like r6 and cod we actually like newbies and protect them when we find them. (sometimes)

and the people who do will be few and far between anyway, were accounting for the fully geared up 3 stacks pairing up with newbies, not some idiot stomping new players becasue they have ego problems

[feral prism]

also if your figuring out how to kill a skeleton you will die to the skeleton, happend my first like 5 games lol

[stuck perch]

Some people do, but I've also seen people who are willing to go to the ends of the earth to chase and kill a newb because they could. Those people absolutely would do that if it meant they could kill newbs. Now that's not all they'd do every day, but they'd spend a sizable amount of time on the game doing so.

[stuck perch]

Yep, same here.

[feral prism]

Well honestly, getting skill issued in this game happends alot as is, i dont think we can account for every single senario that comes from level based matchmaking, but if your really really dead set on the fact that people will do this, add some type of timer for deleting a character and creating a new one. (This is a bandaid fix) again your cant fix everything about it but it can be improved apon
Now im going to go eat dinner

[lucid acorn]

whens private lobbies comin!!!

[stuck perch]

way too exploitable.

[lucid acorn]

you dont keep loot in those, full 16. meant for esports style stuff yenno. focus killing other people

[rough sierra]

Because extraction PvPvE games are the only games around anymore that have this kind of matchmaking

I hate the modern SBMM that you see everywhere. back in the day, you'd queue up to play a game and got paired with whoever else also queued up. I want the chance to fight juicers, I want my gear to feel powerful when i work for it.

making money in this game is still totally possible even as a solo in crypts. the punishment of the game makes the victories that much sweeter.

If I only got queued with equivalent level and gear then the gear would feel like shit. Why gear up when I'll always be against people with the same skill/gear?

[stuck perch]

Alright, well I'd preferred we'd give people the incentive to move on and leave new players alone over forcing them too. New players would do well to occasionally encounter people that are much better than them as they can learn from them, both from fighting them and watching them afterwards.

[rough sierra]

Everyone keeps asking for gear/skill based matchmaking but that would make the game so damn boring and make gear meaningless

[stuck perch]

Well said.

[stuck perch]

So what would motivate you to move on and not milk a lower difficulty lobby filled with new players?

[mossy burrow]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487417/bring-back-rupture-to-torches-or-remove-the-ability-for-other-classes-to-use-the

Check this out and upvote if you agree this needs to be changed.

Youtube links provided.

[lucid acorn]

1. lose gear if die (clearly)
2. if make it out, dont come out with anything picked up IN GAME
3. focus is to kill each other, almost like br style playing for highest amt of kills/placement (tourneys!?!!?!?)
4. still mobs in game to slow pace

[lyric wave]

I Think warlocks should be able to equip the Kris dagger

[civic parcel]

They should make magic missile do 100% on pve and 50 on pvp cause all my magic missiles get used up insanely fast on pve now, i cant even kill a champ with all my magic missiles in the head

[lucid acorn]

easily the worst take ive heard ^

[stuck perch]

What is this in response to? Could you elaborate?

[rough sierra]

questing and new maps mostly

At present, you still have to be cautious when running full blue+ because there are other teams with equivalent gear

There's this myth that high-geared players run no risk of losing gear, when the reality is that there are almost always other teams with blue+ gear that they risk losing their stuff to.

[lucid acorn]

how to make private lobbies work

[onyx orbit]

All Go Gobbo Caves and fight the troll together.

[rough sierra]

private practice lobbies with zero progression is fine to learn PvE

no loot, no xp

[lucid acorn]

then pvpve

[rough sierra]

The issue I have with most sbmm complaints is that they claim lobbies are full of noobs running grey sets, while also claiming that they are full of high gear players

In my own experience, it's entirely random. Sometimes you're in a lobby with a ton of juicers and sometimes youre in a lobby with only noobs. The variety and not knowing what the next trip into the dungeon will bring is a huge part of the draw of extraction PvPvE games

[chilly adder]

Add a trade channel

regular trade is kind of aids

[stuck quail]

Your suggestion is horrendous too.

[stuck perch]

People mostly remember experiences that marked them. They'll remember that time when they didn't meet anyone in the whole dungeon because it was filled with noobs who died or they'll remember the time there was a juicer trio that wiped everyone. But not the 20 matches in between which had nothing stand out.

[stray wasp]

No more trade chat, create a instance where players pay a 50 gold fee to enter and are able to put items on a stand to trade with other players

[stuck perch]

What's wrong with the trade chat?

[feral prism]

Yeah, this can be a bit of an issue, thats why i was thinking that it could be a loosly based matchmaking system, idealy in this situation there should be a even ammount of some kind, for example
Low level goblin caves would look something like this
Lobby of 9
3 Low Levels
4 Mid Levels
2 High Levels

[merry kestrel]

Fighter perks and skills are in a bad place, they're uninteresting and unused - there's a reason you only see fighters rocking shield and sword and using second wind and sprint 24/7. However, they're just the strongest skills fighters have. I propose that some perks and many skills need revised in order for fighter to enjoy more versatility in their choices.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487150/fighter-perk-revision

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487153/fighter-skill-revision

[chilly adder]

Selling items could be way way easier if a marketplace was setup, where u could just post an item for consignment and get notified if it's been bought already(ff14, new world)

constantly having to link your item trying to sell is tiring, feels like im working my day job.

[short heath]

You're delusional.

[feral prism]

High Level would look like
Lobby of 9
2 Low Levels
3 Mid Levels
4 High Levels
(keep in mind, level doesnt mean what gear they bring)

[merry kestrel]

im not asking to buff second wind

im asking to make the other skills worth taking instead

[onyx orbit]

This Is Perfect. Even Could include the trade taxes in the postings. Gives you more of a chance for your stuff to sell. Works for Dead Frontier Too

[feral prism]

No no he's right, When do you ever see a fighter not use second wind and sprint

[stuck perch]

Way easier but hawking your gear has a old school feel that I like.

[short heath]

The fact that you said that Second Wind wasn't strong is enough for my statement to stand.

[merry kestrel]

every class with healing has more stored healing than fighter

[chilly adder]

dont get me wrong, this is an amazing game.

and the devs surely want me to PLAY their game, instead of sitting infront of trade for hours,

right?

[onyx orbit]

Maybe still keep the hawking for High end items? But like man blues and greens and certain utilty should be on a market system like buddie said

[short heath]

How much DR to those classes get on average? And are they capable of putting out heavy ranged and melee dps?

[feral prism]

There are only 4* classes with built in healing
fighter
cleric
warlock
(ranger)
Both of the other ones are so small or a spell
Second wind provides you half of your hp at the press of a button when you need it the most, the healing isnt broken, its when you get it is.

[short heath]

My man has no idea. Second Wind is legitimately the strongest active ability in the game.

[stuck perch]

I find that the current trade with auctions/marketplaces in various discord communities works well.

[feral prism]

^ nerf it i beg

[rough sierra]

ranger has the self heal, its not small and it feels out of place. I love the class but the skill feels wrong

[stuck perch]

It's a class that's supposed to be good at self sufficiency in the wild.

[chilly adder]

No doubt, hawking has its appeal, but it's when you're trying to clear stash of your 10 blue bard gear pieces, it's when I wish I also had a marketplace to automate the selling for me.

having a trade channel here in discord could be cool for those legendaries and uniques, keys too.

[feral prism]

fair enough lol, dont play ranger that much
That heal is honestly warented though due to it not being as strong, Not taking effect immediately with an animation to boot, and also having a cooldown on it

[rough sierra]

I get the lore justification for it, but it feels kinda cheap. Even as someone who loves playing ranger

@feral prism
It's a solid 1/3 of your health. It's pretty damn good for keeping yourself topped up. It's a great heal. Love having it on the class, but it feels dirty

[merry kestrel]

fighter doesn't get in-built DR, what are you on? Cleric can hit the same DR as fighter. the +AR and other skills depend heavily on using a shield, which my suggested changes are meant to disincentivize
@feral prism Ranger also gets in-built healing goober

ITT: missing the point, I'm trying to get people to move away from second wind, sprint, and shield-based PDR gameplay

[rough sierra]

isnt fighter supposed to be the PDR tank though? What kind of gameplay do you think they should have

[feral prism]

The self heal is good there is no doubt about that, but the animation and the cooldown prevents you from popping it while fighting, you have to run while using it. Also its on ranger, the least powerfull melee class tbh (spears are dummy good tho with good gear)

[merry kestrel]

i think they should be allowed to be tanky without a shield or, if going slayer, at least let the assist perks not be terrible

[short heath]

Not on whatever you're on. 10% AR, +60 flat AR, 10% projectile DR, and literally is the only actual tank class in the game.

[rough sierra]

afaik tanky without sheild is the barb's position

[merry kestrel]

barb's position is to one tap headshot you if you get within arm's reach lmao

[rough sierra]

along with being incredibly tanky

[feral prism]

On top of this, If cleric tanks he has to use spells in order to do so, Fighter presses a button and restores 50% of his hp back no matter the actual hp number or the DR

[short heath]

Barbs have health tank on their side, as opposed to DR tank.

[feral prism]

imagine if barb had a %heal as one of his abilitys.

[short heath]

I don't want to. That's disgusting.

[merry kestrel]

Sure, and then it's used up, it's gone without a campfire, which anyone can use to heal.

In order for fighters to gain any meaningful PDR they have to invest heavily in gear. All other classes, except arguably rogue or wizard for a spellbook, don't have such a crutch

And even then, all that aside, I'm not asking to buff second wind. I'm asking for their other skills to be buffed so that you don't run into second wind fighters and instead maybe you see spear fighters.

[inland sluice]

they already do

[stuck perch]

Health tank? they barely have 30 more health than the warrior and no where near the DR and no option for a shield.

[short heath]

And they have significantly more damage. That's the point. Tradeoffs.

[potent stream]

second wind is one time use and after that you are playing with 1 skill

[merry kestrel]

☝️ and im not even trying to buff second wind

[feral prism]

Dont buff fighter dude, Nerf second wind, its not like the other abilitys are bad, they are just out shined due to these 2 (second wind, Sprint) being so god damn amazing for pvp, which if your good is how your gonna die 90% of the time (IT EVEN HELPS IN PVE)

[merry kestrel]

yes, victory strike, on a 24 second cooldown and only on average +10 extra damage once, is so good

[static cave]

admins need to add a teaming choice when in game reporting

[short heath]

A strength and health % stacked Barb will get over 200hp easily. Hell, there are Rogues who run around with 170hp.

[feral prism]

No, teaming isnt that big of an issue. Infact it leads to more funny moments then anything

[static cave]

not in solos when two v one

[rough sierra]

teaming is only bannable if premeditated
if you meet someone in the dungeon and team up it's totally within the rules. If you intentionally queue at the same time it's bannable

[static cave]

its in rules to go into Solos and team up? no longer making it solos?

[feral prism]

never said that, Dont shove words into peoples mouth

[static cave]

truce not to fight i get

[rough sierra]

yeah, totally allowed to meet someone in solos and agree to team

If you and your buddy click queue at the same time to get into the same GC lobby, then it's against the rules

[static cave]

thats crazy to me. wow

[wooden seal]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487511/after-match-damage-report

[rough sierra]

not entirely, you run a massive risk of being backstabbed by randoms

but with your friends, that risk is gone

[static cave]

big whoop, they just 2v1 a dude in solos they got other issues to worry about

[rough sierra]

what I'm saying is that teaming in GC is not at all a guaranteed win, you will more than likely get backstabbed

its a risk/reward decision

[iron snow]

have there been any discussions on the training page? I feel like thats a portion that hasnt been talked about much. like whether or not the game will be based on skills being leveled through gameplay and quests or what skill points you put in each time you level?

[rough sierra]

AFAIK they haven't talked about it much. They have said that the focus right now is finishing warlock and implementing questing

Who knows when that will be out, but hopefully it comes soon

[wooden seal]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487511/after-match-damage-report

[peak jay]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487514/potion-belt

upvote my potion belt idea

[autumn breach]

Just like how the game has a plate armor category there should be another armor category called scaled armor.

[elfin harness]

Just chiming in again. Gear based matchmaking, even a very light matchmaking, is absolutely necessary.
The longer we go since the wipe, the more often my team gets run over by giga Chad's with purple and gold gear. It's not fun, and it doesn't make people want to continue.
I'd be curious to know if anyone has any good defense for the game having zero matchmaking besides "git gud".

[true pivot]

if you also hate being forced to keep utility belt 3 empty just so you can use one item without automatically pulling out the next item, wasting your time with an animation and move speed penalty in potentially critical moments of gameplay, vote to revert this change:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486901/revert-automatically-grabbing-next-utility-slot

[short heath]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/472659/matchmaking-balance-calculation-suggestion#comment540252

[stuck perch]

Then we're due for another wipe, preferably one where the loot isn't boosted right after.

[short heath]

This was happening on day 1 following the wipe. I've said this multiple times. Wipes being due, presumably by the presence of this problem, indicates that GBMM is quite a necessary function. You can't wipe every day.

[stuck perch]

One where loot isn't boosted right after.
At least read the comment you're responding to.

[wooden seal]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487511/after-match-damage-report

[short heath]

Brother, loot rates went up after the wipe, not on the wipe. The problem existed since day 1. And regardless, this problem existed during the last "season", also since day 1.

[stuck perch]

Just cap the loot to blues for inferno and lower for crypt. Then we can all have your safe space with out evil players in purple hurting wee players.

[potent stream]

What is the point of going for better gear if it does not give you advantage ? You can also use that giga chad gear instead of complaining about losing to someone who has put in the time and effort to get that.

[dapper hull]

Make black name for 100 karma down report anyone agree ???

[wooden seal]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487511/after-match-damage-report

[icy panther]

inferno also needs an incentive to go to it because it's too much risk for jack shit

only reason to go to inferno is to fight a boss for purples/chance at legendary, in high roller at least you get the chance for a unique like Fulgor

[jovial phoenix]

Arena mode. You could use existing rooms ie the larger rooms, pyramid or the four square area. It would be nice to try out weapons in an arena. Chivalry's small team arena mode would be an example of what I am picturing. It would be fun.

[tulip sundial]

That is their only defense

[past ice]

Hi to anyone who may be reading this, i just got a single suggestion that i would like to see. It would be neat if the areas where in there are training dummies, those dummies might load in with random armor or helmets equipped. I don’t think the pieces should be lootable, i just think it would be cool to see the damage differences between a naked dummy and one with armor, since it’s currently the only way to see the damage of various strikes and attacks

[stuck perch]

Submit your suggestion here
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/

[past ice]

Thank you!

[merry kestrel]

Fighter perks and skills are in a bad place, they're uninteresting and unused - there's a reason you only see fighters rocking shield and sword and using second wind and sprint 24/7. However, they're just the strongest skills fighters have. I propose that some perks and many skills need revised in order for fighter to enjoy more versatility in their choices.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487150/fighter-perk-revision

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487153/fighter-skill-revision

[bold kettle]

should be a limit for arrows too, quivers are a thing and they should add a limit. cant put a multi stage damaging ability on an arrow so thrown useables are more lame.

[hearty fiber]

could we add a duel mode no xp gain no loot just pvp arena to learn to fight maybe a ranking system to it or somthing

[elfin harness]

Honestly one of the dumbest takes I've seen so far. "Just use better gear". Why didn't I think of that?

How exactly would we get that gear, if the complaint here, is not surviving due to the newb stompers

[gusty star]

PLEASE KEEP GEARED PLAYERS AND NOOBS SEPERATE THIS SHIT IS HOPELESS

[red jewel]

they just need to nerf the scaling on +damage items for every class, but especially wizards. 2shot zap is stupid

[rocky mica]

Perk: Whenever Warlock takes damage, 30% of the total damage is delayed & dealt over 3 seconds rather than being dealt instantly.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487013/warlock-pact-with-the-beyond-perk
Damage mitigation with a theme of “teeters the line between life & death”

[wooden seal]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487511/after-match-damage-report

[onyx ore]

**My Steam Review: ** Negative
After playing H1Z1, PUBG, CSGO, Rust, EFT, R6, etc. I can confirm there is more cheaters in this game than any of the ones I listed. If you watched Goat's video on pubg doing the wiggle you could do a similar test by loading into a lobby and dying to an npc about 1.5 mins into a match and find someone looting through the wall pre-wipe it was about 3.5 out of 5 lobbies. That was only wall looting gold farms not including PVP cheaters. I'm having more fun playing BG3 which I'd rate a 4/10 game... It's a Netflix B rated tv show with the ability to click voice lines. Yet that game doesn't make me want to throw my controller wingsofredemption style. Why anyone would even try to play this game in the current state is mind blowing. Gold apparently is $2 for 1000, need proof just join the fighter channel and count till you see it (the highest I got was 25 seconds normally it's less than 8). So besides the PVP cheaters, you have fully kitted blue+ one hit KO guys who are paying to win less than two days into wipe, you have the gold farmers, you have extreme class balance issues creating meta's, you also get to deal with all these fun pre-alpha bugs (like stuttering which didn't occur during playtest 5 or even the first week of alpha). This game has the potential to be Game of the Year... But not in it's current state. I admit I jumped on the hype train due to friends having high interest in this game and being able to playtest it before buying. This company just sunk the nail in the coffin for buying alpha games even if I get to play it before hand. I'd rather wait 6 months after a release to see it be a stable game than endure this nightmare again. I really hope it turns around quick but by how the lobbies started taking longer and longer to fill up during prime time I'd imagine the numbers on the backend are starting to be noticeable. Last only @ me to say skill issue.

[potent stream]

seems like they did survive ? and get that gear somehow. You are talking like they are in 100% of your raids and 100% you are unable to avoid them run from them

[merry kestrel]

imagine leaving a review like this when you willingly paid to be a guinea pig and sort out these bugs

[icy panther]

I expect people to take this too seriously

[stuck perch]

The game is in early access and being actively developed, it's not surprising cheaters are finding more exploits to take advantage of. The devs are actively working to prevent cheating and banning cheaters. It's just something we'll have to live with for now.

[potent stream]

More cheaters than in rust and EFT ? Have you even played those games XD

[onyx ore]

I've been the owner of a 600+ pop rust server. I have 2k+ hours in almost all of those games listed.

[merry kestrel]

it's a bait post by someone who doesn't actually play the game and is just actively hating it. i bet they're paid by nexon

[topaz fog]

"I'm new here, say hi"

[eternal nebula]

I think it's just a oke lmao

[onyx ore]

It's not. I'd refund.

[merry kestrel]

you probably havent even bought the game

[elfin harness]

So, honest question. Do you believe any game should have matchmaking? Or in every competitive game, those who play more and are better should always go in and obliterate everyone?

[onyx ore]

I bought the premium edition + 20 red shards. I also bought the coffee mug for a buddy. Glad to see those codes being resold now in another package for $30 less. /s

[icy panther]

I take the position of the latter because thats the definition of a competitive game, better player wins.

[onyx ore]

Better cheater wins*

[icy panther]

In this case it's a general question among competitive games as a whole

[coarse topaz]

I think you can toggle this

[icy panther]

Sadly you can't and I've died to the mechanic twice so far

[stuck perch]

No, I don't but then again those other games aren't extraction looters. I want Match Making systems in games where you start a match at the same point as everyone else, like a moba or rts game. In an extraction looter, I want complete randomness.
That said, reducing the player cap back to the original 16 for 5x5 maps would lessen the frequency for overpowered pvp finding and rolling through you.

[icy panther]

Make it 15 to be divisible by 3

[elfin harness]

Better player wins, sure, I'm good with that.

But to lump All gamers into one giant pool, and say ok, those who are better, rise to the top, those underneath, you will never have a shot now, because you're already underneath the best of the best...

[potent stream]

depends on the game and genre. this game could have a low roller map. you play competitive games there should be a skill based matchmaking. games like this or tarkov example should not. games like mmorpg should not restrict you by gear since the point of those games is to get stronger than others. do you think lvl 1 should be able to beat lvl 60 in wow example ?

[stuck perch]

Part of the genius of the original 16 was that it wasn't. That meant there was always some combination of solos, duos and trios in the lobby. Sometimes that would be more trios or less but it was in flux. It changed the feeling of each match ever so slightly.

[wooden seal]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487511/after-match-damage-report

[elfin harness]

Good example, because no, I absolutely don't. But would wow be fun if every time you left town, that level 60 was out there making sure you didn't get anything accomplished? No it wouldn't, so there are protections in place to Keep those matchups from happening in certain areas.

[merry kestrel]

skill issue

[onyx ore]

Thank you, this will be taken into consideration and has been noted.

[potent stream]

but in this game you can kill player geared to the teeth it's not impossible. I have done it myself. and you can very much avoid those players too

[icy panther]

Its very easy to avoid other players in this game. I mentioned it before; I have no issue with seperating new players from juicers, but I have no sympathy for people who go in with grey (and know better) and expect to have no issues with other players, never seeming to understand that you can simply not engage.

[merry kestrel]

if you're the only one complaining about cheaters in an early access game where they're working to resolve cheaters and there's wipes and everything

maybe you're just bad at the game

Fighter perks and skills are in a bad place, they're uninteresting and unused - there's a reason you only see fighters rocking shield and sword and using second wind and sprint 24/7. However, they're just the strongest skills fighters have. I propose that some perks and many skills need revised in order for fighter to enjoy more versatility in their choices.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487150/fighter-perk-revision

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487153/fighter-skill-revision

[stuck perch]

Maybe, but if you can dodge that lvl 60 and sneak out it'll be an accomplishment. This is a hardcore game, a good amount of us are attracted to it because of that.

[icy panther]

Level 60 in this case reminds me of angwe

[elfin harness]

True, you can not engage and hide, but that doesn't get you out, and doesn't get you any kind of real gains. You still have to find and fight for that last blue portal.

[onyx ore]

I'll send you some clips if you want... Played with a guy who openly admitted to buying gold my buddy and I found through the gathering hall. I spectated cheaters for an entire day about 1-2 days before the wipe was announced. The old saying "well I didn't run into any cheaters" is the most idiotic take someone can have. Look how Goat proved by wiggling that half the EFT community is cheating. Yes because you didn't die to a "cheater" there must be no cheaters is not true. It simply means the cheaters avoided you in-combat unless they are forced to do so by either the zone or amount of portals. If you google (at your own risk) cheats you will find in the forums discussing how they don't want to provide free ones because they want to give time for the developers to finish the game. I'm not even joking.

[merry kestrel]

why not just report them like a normal person instead of posting fake steam reviews

[icy panther]

Maybe in caves or ruins? Not really in crypt since so many spawn and if the juicers are truly such a bane to the average player then the herd gets thinned out fast, there's bound to be tons of blue portals in that case.

Then again, it's rare to see juicers in ruins.

[elfin harness]

And I enjoy the hard-core aspect as well. I'm not saying I only want to fight players with my same gear, that would be silly. Greens, blues, maybe even the odd purple or 2, cool, that's the fun of it, even if I'm only in grays/whites.

But full purple plate, a gold helmet, and and an orange crossbow and purple sword'n'board... that's not reasonable, and no, my team can't just kill them by gitting gud, the discrepancy essentially makes them unkillable with gray/trash weapons.

I'd be curious if anyone has any kind of video of them in all grays, killing someone kitted to the gills?

[onyx ore]

To hopefully pre-warn other players this "alpha" is no different than any other AAA game. For all I know this could be a cash grab now. People on reddit have even speculated that it might not be possible for DaD to be cross compatible with steam if/when they decide to relist it. I jokingly said a steam review but this is no different than a yelp review. Take it with a grain of salt maybe I'm a crazy who got the one bad McBurger missing cheese and wanted to complain. Or maybe I've been a gamer my entire life and have gotten tired of the non-stop crap "alpha" games who get away with leaving it in alpha for years and never releasing a game. I've also got 2 screen shots with 5+ names banned in just a 2 day period.

[glossy ferry]

MORE 3 PERSON ESCAPE PORTALS!!!!!

[merry kestrel]

wait you're saying this indie studio is competing with AAA titles successfully? nice!

[onyx ore]

You do realize this "indie studio" raked in over 15 million dollars at minimum with a team of 30+ people. That also have a deal with Tencent the Chinese publisher right?

[stuck perch]

Would it be more tolerable if it didn't happen often?

[topaz fog]

I'm complaining. So now there's 2 isn't there sire.

[stuck perch]

A guy was sharing this one earlier on. He said he and his team killed another one with less effort but I don't know where that one is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6lcXxLcFfg

[elfin harness]

Absolutely. I'm not saying I want to win every match. But for example, today, about 70% of my matches had at least one team of juicers in it.

Even if I didn't die by them (I did a lot of spectating after death, just out of curiosity), it's a shame to watch them cut a swath through pve and pvp alike with virtually no effort, because no one in there can match their gear.

[merry kestrel]

EVERY game studio has to deal with tencent if they publish in china. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. what are you on about

[onyx ore]

Youtube: onepeg Dark and Darker is going... MOBILE!? (not a meme) - Next google who owns that company.

[merry kestrel]

first...i don't see a problem with mobile. I play albion online lmao that's some PC purist talk.

everything i google about ownership just leads back to Park lmao

[opal frigate]

A New Shrine!

This shrine will be a sacrifice shrine. You drop an item onto the shrine and sacrifice some health and it will give the item a random rolled line (cursed line) **Items could only have 1 curse maximum

[near ginkgo]

We need dwarf race

[merry kestrel]

we need dwarf class, just like back in 1e/2e (or B/X for you oldies)

[near ginkgo]

nay tomfool

[merry kestrel]

no u

[onyx ore]

Ugh googling is soooo hard: does tencent own krafton

[merry kestrel]

... who is krafton

[topaz fog]

It is if you lick windows.

[onyx ore]

Did you watch the video from onepeg? It's in the first 30 seconds.

[elfin harness]

That's an absolutely insanely good player, and I daresay, is nowhere your typical players skill level.

I agree with the idea of a low roller map, limit it blues, let us at least get some kind of decent gear stash before going in against the juicers.

[merry kestrel]

so Ironmace, who is solely owned by Park, is letting Krafton, who is 13.5% owned by Tencent, develop the mobile version of DaD. I see no problems here, this is standard software business lmao

[stuck perch]

After talking to people here I came up with this suggestion intended to reduce the average disparity of items in the game amongst players you routinely encounter. Note that this doesn't use match making of any kind nor does it force players to play in a given queue. It just adds a mix of incentives and reduces incentives to do otherwise.
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484028/fixing-over-geared-people-in-lower-lobbies-motivating-better-geared-people-to-mo#comment544273

[merry kestrel]

and yes Ironmace is considered indie. idc how many devs it has, this is its first and only title. that's indie.

[stuck perch]

I say don't limit the players in gear they bring in, limit the rarity of stuff they can find and give them a better option to farm the better stuff and even gold in general. Occasionally you'll still get players with out of the norm gear but typically the ones with said gear will move on.

[onyx ore]

I feel like my whole point is flying right over. A multi-million dollar corp with funding from tencent releases a game without anti-cheat littered with gold farmers.

[stuck perch]

It's also self publishing and not just cranking out someone else's game.

[stuck perch]

The game isn't released yet. This is early access.

[merry kestrel]

it's not funded by tencent.... the owner made a smart decision and sold the rights to the MOBILE VERSION to someone who specializes in mobile versions of games

also tencent, unironically, is not some devil company lmao. more games than you think are owned, published, or funded by them

i feel like you're just hating it to hate it, like some sort of...anti-ironmace person. like some sort of person paid by the opposition to be a bad actor. 🤔

[onyx ore]

This has to be the weirdest take I've ever seen. I support indie devs! BUT-T-T-T... I also support Tencent a chinese mega-corporation known for shady practices in the gaming world.

[primal spindle]

tencent is a investor and also, tencent has ruined multiple games

[merry kestrel]

ironmace is indie tho lmao

[onyx ore]

tencent is a investor and also, tencent has ruined multiple games

[opal frigate]

tencent is a investor and also,*** tencent has ruined multiple games***

[stuck perch]

And? Have they ruined DaD yet?

[merry kestrel]

yeah just believe him at his word

[primal spindle]

they tried making dont starve on mobile which was already done and good all they had to do was update it and somehow made it worse

[abstract swallow]

being worried about tencent investment is always valid, but until they have a significant stake in the company (ex: FatShark) it's nothing to doomsay about

[merry kestrel]

im sure you are m8

[stuck perch]

That sounds resonable.

[primal spindle]

this^^. luckily, just like in the dst case, they let the devs work on their own game with no interference

[abstract swallow]

honestly until the legal trouble is over, I don't expect them to garner much attention from the big ol' commiefascist penguin

[onyx ore]

oof.

[merry kestrel]

thanks for the free rent m8

[onyx ore]

Completely reasonable. I wouldn't back down on white knighting.

[merry kestrel]

I'm not the one over here screaming "yellow scare" into the void while posting fake steam reviews

[onyx ore]

<@&988703997378584596> we just allow openly racist people here now.

[wide zinc]

LFG lvl 20 Wizard

[merry kestrel]

ah that's the goal was it? to get me to call you out at being racist so you can call a warden? i call you out for being scared of tencent and china, you call a warden

[onyx ore]

I was never racist? You literally are calling a group of people "yellow".

[merry kestrel]

<@&1019888848773328936> we have a pair of dishonest troublemakers stirring the pot here

[abstract swallow]

I'm very racist and can confirm that Konate wasn't racist in the slightest. You can trust the word of an expert here.

[soft grove]

Please put solo for crypts, now in Goblin people just run over and attack you within 10 seconds since they all know where you spawn 😂

[wide zinc]

Yea it’s dumb

Missing the free high rollers

[onyx ore]

My guy. I said Tencent, yes a chinese company is part owner of the mobile game. You are over here calling them "yellow" like what? #suggestion-discussion message

[abstract swallow]

You can solo in Crypts just fine. It's intended.
Goblin Caves is EXPLICITLY for dueling and short rounds.

[soft grove]

It's popular to gear yourself up for run and high dmg weapon and just eat the guy spawning next to you

[merry kestrel]

yes, it's not uncommon to relate people being scared of chinese business to the anti-russian red scare campaign

[soft grove]

But option for a longer solo run would be nice, some of us like that

[wide zinc]

Swallow your pride mate don’t engage in bs when they just gonna say w/e

[onyx ore]

Bold strategy doubling down on color.

[merry kestrel]

bold strategy saying you're not the one who started this all with a bad faith review

[abstract swallow]

Crypts is the answer you're looking for then, you can even descend to a more difficult level just like the devs intended.

[wide zinc]

As a lvl 20 wiz who is pretty decent ima tell you goin solo in crypts is sweaty af 😂 clenched and puckered up in an out of invis

[soft grove]

I see new people get hammered so fast, think if you logged into a game for the first time. Then you spawn and start hitting first goblin, while you doing that you hear a weird sound behind you and you instant die. Those guy will never play the game again

[wide zinc]

Lol welcome to the darkness brotha

[soft grove]

Well I will never stop playing, just thought longer solo runs in crypt would be amazing 😂

[wide zinc]

Let’s hit up the duos in ruins

[soft grove]

Are you simple jack from the movies 😄

[wide zinc]

✌🏼the one an only

[soft grove]

😂 🫡

[merry kestrel]

Fighter perks and skills are in a bad place, they're uninteresting and unused - there's a reason you only see fighters rocking shield and sword and using second wind and sprint 24/7. However, they're just the strongest skills fighters have. I propose that some perks and many skills need revised in order for fighter to enjoy more versatility in their choices.

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487150/fighter-perk-revision

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487153/fighter-skill-revision

[wide zinc]

Mates gave me the name after seeing me game lmao

[lucid sierra]

probably already suggested, please let me sell the coin purses for 1 gold

[wide zinc]

Lol just gotta take the purse in with you and fill her up

Do more trades and you’ll have space

My thing is if I buy arrows or bolts or torches I should be able to stash em

[short heath]

Time investment ≠ skill improvement. I want my skill to actually matter in fights. Right now gear matters significantly more than skill does. But that's not the point of putting in GBMM - the point is to make sure that new players actually have a chance so they want to stay. When you have full trios rampaging through no-ante lobbies because they get off on power trips and know that no-ante lobbies hold little-to-no risk, they're going to get their first two sets of gear prepped and immediately jump into no-ante lobbies to roll face. This doesn't benefit them in any way. This doesn't put them higher on the leaderboards. They simply do it because they know they're causing other people grief. That is a GLARING issue that Ironmace faces currently with the game. New player retention is balls right now because of it.

They will run into population issues very quickly, and the game won't financially be able to support itself with its current model if nothing is done about this problem. There are infinitely more players who are potential gains than there are currently playing, and eventually those who are currently playing will move on. The doors need to be more open than they are closed to allow the game to survive once that starts to happen, and it is a BIG problem if retention has already been identified by the community as a problem because there is nothing stopping these no balls players from running no-ante matches.

[somber wind]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/484560/queueing-declumping

[short heath]

Bro, you're talking to a room temp IQ individual who thinks that Second Wind isn't strong. Give up. He's hopeless.

[merry kestrel]

oh hey you're back, the person who thinks I said second wind isn't strong.

[nova oyster]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487549/entry-for-high-roller-goblin-cave-should-not-be-50g

[stuck perch]

Dude just because we won't back your bad ideas doesn't make us dumb people.

[abstract swallow]

I live near the equator, so I think this is the nicest thing you've ever said about me.
You've also called me a kid, so I must have really impressed you if you think I'm a gifted child.

[short heath]

#suggestion-discussion message

You literally did.

[merry kestrel]

Yes, and Second Wind is a one time use 50% heal, whereas Rangers, Clerics, and Warlocks all have better healing options with more canned heals. Second Wind is used because it's better than the other Fighter skills, but it is strong, which is why the other skills need to be brought up on par so that it's not the mandatory pick.

but keep hating fighters ig 🤷‍♂️

[short heath]

But yeah, I just "think" you said something and now just deflection happens.

[merry kestrel]

Or maybe instead of attacking me you can ask me why I think so and we can have a "discussion" about my "suggestion"

[merry kestrel]

btw this channel is called #suggestion-discussion, not "hate on other people's ideas" or "i hate this game" or "let's sabotage ironmace"

[abstract swallow]

oh I thought it was the first one, that's why I keep coming here on my lunch breaks

[merry kestrel]

i can understand the confusion, since many people confuse "discussion" with "argument", and "suggestion" with "bad take"

[abstract swallow]

I disagree with this statement and take personal offense to it, and will now single you out in all further discussions because my inability to separate my position from myself leads me to treat all people arguing otherwise as enemies.

[merry kestrel]

[abstract swallow]

[short heath]

You can't fix stupid when it doesn't have the ability to see beyond its own nose. Feel free to ask the question to the top players - see how they feel about Second Wind and if it is strong or not. Discussing reworking other perks and whatnot is fine, but the moment you say something as wrong as Second Wind being anything but extremely strong, you lose a whole hell of a lot of validity in any of the statements you make in the future. That's how credibility works.

[idle crater]

do something about wizard barbarian? there is no counter play, they are faster than every other class. thats just bad game design.

It's blatantly better than any other comp by far

[short heath]

Yes, buffing in general is pretty hard to deal with. Adding a better and/or more options than Cleanse should be a thing.

[idle crater]

the wizard invis shouldnt be able to move while invisible, no perk, thats just blatantly too strong and not fair

[merry kestrel]

You know I did change the wording on each subsequent post to not rile you up, right?

[abstract swallow]

That's... the point of Duo queue?
Why are you going to play Duos if you aren't abusing the broken balance of everyone being locked below the balanced team size?

[idle crater]

its in trios theres a bard with them

[short heath]

That doesn't change the fact that you said it to begin with. You still, at some point in time, legitimately were in belief that Second Wind wasn't the best active ability in the game.

[abstract swallow]

Then you have up to two friends to even the odds with. The game is balanced around groups of 3, anything less very intentionally has significant drawbacks and missing coverage.

[merry kestrel]

Lol because it's not the best active ability in the game. That's probably haste

[viral zephyr]

been running wiz + barb in duos all night, can recommend

[idle crater]

you are incapable of critical thought , please do not responmd to anything else i post. thank you.

[abstract swallow]

Second Wind is strong only in the context of Fighter's very, very sad options, and as a sustain tool for exceptionally well-geared Fighters (75%+ PDR post-nerf, a kit that costs more than most players will ever see in a single wipe).
Compared to other classes' abilities, a one-time 50% heal that takes a Campfire to restore, has a mandatory activation animation, and has no way to meaningfully scale it would be regarded as a trap option (Barbarian) or a meal ticket for new/ungeared players to learn the ropes with (Ranger).
He's entirely right by saying that not only is it not 'strong' in a general, comparative perspective but also in saying that it needs to be brought up to a reasonable parity with other classes. No other class in the game deals with as much mandatory downtime, limitations, and debuffs as Fighter does with his Perks & Skills.
It's a very early design holdover that needs to be addressed at some point.

[short heath]

Haste is a spell, not exactly the same thing. The ability is technically spell memory that is then used to cast a spell. Lumping spells into skills is not a fair comparison, but I can see why you'd think they're similar enough to compare. Haste gives 14% action and movespeed, which is less movespeed than Sprint giving you a flat 50, but does give you the action speed as well. Technically speaking, Sprint is better than Haste just based on the raw stats it gives.

[merry kestrel]

yes, but you can't use sprint on your barbarian or fellow fighter

[stuck perch]

But I can put haste on team mates to support them.

[short heath]

Fighters are also the most versatile class in the game that boast considerable dps both in melee combat and ranged combat, typically utilizing a shield that can block spells, and start with a health pool with no gear of 100, in addition to being the only actual tank in the game, imo, that can get an insane amount of PDR. That turns their effective health pool into a monstrous amount, and when taking into account that Second Wind is effectively an emergency button (as in typically the Fighter is the tank of the group, meant to eat damage and be healed by a Cleric), it makes a lot of sense for it to only have a single charge when the EHP it recovers is more than most classes have total when geared, and is close to the total health of squishies when not geared.

[mossy burrow]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487417/bring-back-rupture-to-torches-or-remove-the-ability-for-other-classes-to-use-the

Check this out and upvote if you agree this needs to be changed.

Youtube links provided.

[merry kestrel]

Fighters do less DPS on average than any other class, since they only have one perk that increases their damage (Slayer) that blocks them out of their PDR, and two skills (Adrenaline Rush and Victory Strike) that increase DPS/per strike damage, but both are terrible and hardly used. Also their PDR only comes online at blue or better gear, meaning a vast majority of fighters will never enjoy the PDR.

Shield is only one playstyle available to fighters, and my skill and perk revisions aim to open up the different playstyle options while keeping fighter defensively/tank focused

[short heath]

Have you ever played a Fighter with a Crossbow or a Longbow? Or a Falchion and a Heater Shield? Bro, Fighters can dish out hella dps with the right equipment. Just because it is 5-15% less than a Ranger at ranged combat and 5-20% less than a Rogue at melee combat doesn't mean it is bad or low dps, thats literally the difference of one swing or arrow in the majority of situations, no matter what gear you're rocking, if both classes use the same weapons.

Not to mention TTK and swings to kill between weapons and classes are similar and vastly different respectively.

[merry kestrel]

Let's be clear for a second. I think bows need a rebalance or rework across the board. I think all classes should have readily accessible ranged options.

I think damage is vastly overtuned and needs to be trimmed down. Some people say reduced to 80%, I wouldn't mind 50% (with mob HP following, ttk for mobs is fine)

barbarians one shot everyone. rogues one-two shot everyone. fighters 3-4 shot everyone.

[abstract swallow]

If you think the guy who has +0 in every stat, no natural scaling, and the two worst damage/burst skills in the game is dishing out 'hella dps', I think the only person struggling to understand the correct strength of classes and their options here is you, and I mean that in the nicest way possible.
A Fighter with a Crossbow is not doing '15% less' than a Ranger, a Ranger is operating on an entirely different level and he's an even less complete class than Fighter is.

[short heath]

Fully geared Barbs will OHK to the head, sure, but hitting body or arm shots will take 2-3 swings against similarly geared players. Rogues are the same, and you have to be utilizing Castillon 3rd swing combined with Ambush to come anywhere close to OHKing a Fighter, which against any respectable player will be damn near impossible to do. Fighters have a single swing more for swing to kill on dps classes currently and have nearly twice the amount of health and PDR as most classes have.

[dense nebula]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487525/gear-scoring-bracket-matchmaking-based-on-total-gear-score-level

[stuck perch]

Instead of nerfing damage, I'd rather see players get more health. Especially "tanky classes" like a barbarian that is supposed to have an "extreme" amount of health yet only has 30 more than a fighter without much speed or damage reduction to keep it. Increasing health would also not require that they change monster health at all.

[short heath]

You clearly have not seen Fighter played well or done any amount of math to actually compare Fighter vs Ranger dps when both are using the same weapons/gear/stat boosts on gear.

There's legitimately a one arrow difference in ideal scenarios between Fighter and Ranger dps vs the same targets for TTK.

[stuck perch]

Ranger has less strength, a lot of his stats are used up by resourcefulness which is pretty low value stat right now.

[abstract swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1068515318533730344/1134710835437117500/image.png
I've "seen" Fighter played plenty well, for a while now.

[short heath]

Yes, that's partially my point. Fighter has respectable dps across the board and has similar enough dps to actual dps classes... some people apparently don't know how to do math.

[stuck perch]

But are they "fun" to play?

[swift jewel]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487567/torches-dont-take-utility-slot

[merry kestrel]

arguably yes, running through and one shotting everyone is about as fun as cheats in GTA

which is to say, fun until it's not

[short heath]

That's subjective. Some people enjoy it. Others don't. I like the playstyle of being versatile, but I also have an affinity for Ranger gameplay since I played Ranger in EQ, EQ2, D&D and other similar games.

[abstract swallow]

Rocket Tag has been an issue since the first playtest, it's why we've got that eternally reposted wall of text.

[potent stream]

low gear maps would fix that issue. And they do gain money low risk easy money. Thats how you get loot in these type of games run good gear and that improves your survival rate greatly. skill does matter quite alot depending what classes you play and what classes you are against. archer vs archer long range bow battle is very easy to win with superior skill

[agile ether]

10 fps server

[short heath]

I'm also a Spear enjoyer when I play the Ranger.

[abstract swallow]

that explains a lot, actually

[short heath]

10 Physical Power kekw.

[merry kestrel]

i hate you with a passion

but honestly Slayer/Dual Wield and Spear Mastery should be class swapped

and give a crossbow perk to fighter for the unfair exchange

[short heath]

I actually agree with this.

[merry kestrel]

in fact yeah actually. give rangers Slayer and Dual Wield, give fighters Spear and Crossbow mastery

it would actually solve a lot of problems 🤔

[stuck perch]

Fighter needs to keep his dual wield perks and playstyle, not that ranger shouldn't get something to help him dual wield. Some form of crossbow perk isn't a bad idea for fighter.

[potent stream]

i would like to see 2h perks for fighter

[merry kestrel]

nah, losing plate helmets make slayers really, REALLY squishy. and fighter's one big thing is their baseline defense.

[stuck perch]

I want fighter to be able to choose 2h, sword and shield or dual wield. playstyles.

[abstract swallow]

yeah, Slayer should just restrict you from using plate chests and legs
or at least downgrade you to some sort of midrange chain/scale options

[short heath]

True.

[stuck perch]

It's a powerful trade off. Besides not all fighters need to be played with heavy DR.

[abstract swallow]

it's not the DR, it's the Headshot Resist
melees can't operate without it

[merry kestrel]

although I like that DaD has an actual functional dual wield fighter

...I kind of lean into the class fantasy a bit that Ironmace is trying to establish. I think Fighters should be Sword-and-board or 2H focused with either Pavise or Crossbow secondary.

[stuck perch]

There's the don't get hit in the head option?

[short heath]

Unless they add projectile DR to more places.

[merry kestrel]

but also give fighters a Pavise Mastery perk that halves take down/put up time.

[abstract swallow]

it's why you don't play frontline ranger/rogue/warlock, you just can't trade a SINGLE hit, which is obviously devastating for the playstyles with the harshest engagement ranges and mobility penalties
you either flex a gear difference so large you onetap enemy frontliners, or you just crumple the first time a blue 1h weapon touches your skull

[abstract swallow]

I'm honestly surprised it isn't on the 'padded' line of statless chests

[onyx ore]

My guy, I had already forgotten about this conversation. The fact the mods didn't ban a guy openly calling Chinese people "yellow" because he speaks positively about their game speaks volume about the people Ironmace is trusting in to moderate. I'm going to let this game simmer for 6 months or more before looking in gen chat to see if it flopped or is still cheater and gold selling infested. They have a lot of work to do to rebuild this game/community. It's really sad to have an amazing experience in PT5 to what it is today. Only time will tell...

[short heath]

I'd like to see armor categories with specific traits come through. Chain, scale, plate, etc... all with different PDR/MDR/projectile resist

[merry kestrel]

defense mastery should increase MDR

[short heath]

Disagree. Fighters should be weak to spells.

[stuck perch]

Stop trying to stir shit up. You don't like the game ok got it. Now go away.

[merry kestrel]

ok but everyone's weak to spells 😛

[stuck perch]

Not barb, but he's not all that strong vs them either.

[short heath]

Not due to their class though. That's a development that certainly needs improvement - MDR needs to be in more places.

Clerics and Fighters (basically if you wear plate and have high PDR) should be weak to magic damage. There has to be some form of the holy trinity going on, otherwise you'll just keep seeing the meta comp run at you to bonk your face.

[abstract swallow]

MDR/MR curve needs to be redone as much as the PDR/AR rating does
only ever having flat gains to MR and having it scale so poorly is a death sentence for itemization and class viability whenever the meta tips towards spellcasters, which has pretty much inarguably been the case since PT3.

[stuck perch]

There are other ways to balance that, but if you're going to get 85% PDR, then yes some form of weakness is necessary.

[boreal cedar]

Is it just me or do we need an patch where npc ai gets an buff and learn ways to defend agains cheese tactics? bring the dark back to dark and darker dont let it become an fast pace br.

[abstract swallow]

plate not being a good source of magic resistance is good
FIGHTER not having ANY SOURCE of magic resistance is bad
it's not even like the old days where you could run a reasonable templar armor build, since that piece was triple nerfed

[short heath]

That's why buffing needs to be hella toned down atm, too - meta buffball comp is too powerful as it currently stands. There's almost no point in running anything but Wizard/Bard/choice of melee

[stuck perch]

They just need a move for when the player is above them and one where the player is below them.

[stuck perch]

nerfing everything into the ground isn't going to be more "fun".

[abstract swallow]

I'm a big believer that Wizard buffs should have accompanying debuffs (Ignite burns durability faster, Haste has a short slowdown period, Invisibility sets PDR% to 0, etc) but get back their original durations and spellcounts.
Accelerando/Allegro from Bard just need to be outright removed from the game though, they're absolutely gamebreaking. They turn bossing into a complete joke, and they trivialize engagement at no resource cost.

[short heath]

You can't tell me you think seeing the exact same thing running through the dungeons every match is fun. There's actually zero variety currently in HR.

[stuck perch]

I actually see plenty of class diversity.

[short heath]

That's an interesting concept. Maybe only if you're casting them on allies rather than yourself, I'd agree.

[tough maple]

get rid of legacy gear pls

[short heath]

You legit said you don't play HR earlier. What? I do NOT see any kind of variety beyond some form of buffballing going on.

[sick crag]

Dont allow class stacking

[stuck perch]

I don't play HR frequently. doesn't mean I don't. Also balance is not only around HR.

[merry kestrel]

there will be another wipe dw

[analog turret]

class stacking isnt even good lol what

[potent jay]

infinite AOE buff healing & spell recovery was a mistake

[tough maple]

needs to be faster

[short heath]

Yeah, some of the Bard things are... not ideal for gamestate.

[short heath]

No, but it needs to be considered since the majority of your dedicated playerbase will either religiously play it or play it often enough for it to be a good way to collect data on what is actually strong vs otherwise. Trio gameplay in general should be the balancing point, where emphasis is given to HR lobbies for stat stacked trios and no-ante lobbies for lesser-geared adjustments.

HR is basically how you gather scaling data to apply to stat pools on gear and how weighting on those pools needs to be applied on higher tier gear vs lower tier gear.

[next pebble]

bards song speed already scale with knowledge, give bards a spell capacity and require knowledge the same as casters. also limit the numer of songs bard can play, same as spells. the ability to endlessly spam things like din, tranq, and silence is just broken

[stuck perch]

And here I thought you claimed to be a huge buff about game balance. You don't balance the classes based how they perform in HR, you balance them at various points of gear, level and skill. From the lowest base set to the different tiers of gear. Eventually you need to balance classes at the top end of gear, and it's not a big surprise that a lot of those top end geared players end up in HR. If certain classes are topping the charts in HR constantly you can look at why that is but you don't balance them around HR rankings.

[fervent tundra]

Can they make it so spells don't target corpes?

[gray flint]

yes please. 3 fighters / wizards / rangers is broken

[sick crag]

its not that its even broken, just frustrating to play against comps that have 2 rangers or 2 wizards or even 3 rogues

[stuck perch]

You can do even better, and look at the game overall and see what is popular and what is not. When something is taken you can also look at average survival rate with that option or series or group of options.

[sick crag]

yeah they dont compete vs deathball comps but frustrating =/= power

[gray flint]

agreed

[stuck perch]

Why? It can be used ingenously for some of the spells that are otherwise dangerous to use.

[abstract swallow]

Okay, but only for healing/buffs/direct debuffs and damage.
We keep chain lightning or I riot.

[stuck perch]

Just let players play the class and playstyle that they want. Every class has pros and cons. 3 fighters would probably have trouble vs a heavy magic damage comp for example.

[short heath]

Did you read what I said?

HR = balance for high end gear stat applications

No-ante = balance for low end gear stat applications

What is played most is obviously strong, and adjustments can be made to even that out one way or another. Survival rate isn't a huge factor because anyone can rat, and especially not for Rogue because they're exceptional at ratting.

[tulip hill]

I get where you're coming from with 3 rogues, I personally think getting shanked by 3 rogues is funny, but I do understand how one might find it frustrating
but people complain about a single ranger so I don't think being able to stack the same class is the problem there
and I don't know why 2 wizards would notably frustrating so I'd love to hear your thoughts on that one

[merry kestrel]

in case it was missed, monk class

it's like a fast melee class that uses quarterstaves and bare knuckles

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487297/monk-class

[sick crag]

just the concept of multiple ranged classes on the same team pretty much

[short heath]

Imagine getting ran down and punched to death with the garbage punching animation we have currently, except sped up a LOT because Monk punch fast.

[stuck perch]

So you want to balance a game like this around only 2 balance points? This is hopeless. You need to balance it around each tier of gear. Not just HR and normal maps. There's the starter set and every color of gear up to uniques. Thank god you're not in charge of balance.

[fervent tundra]

an example? idk what you mean

[short heath]

No, I said there are high level applications and low level applications. I never said there should only be two actual balance points. I said there are two places to take different sets of data from that will provide accurate information about the different stages that players can be at throughout their gameplay. You're putting words into my mouth by making stupid assumptions as you misunderstand what I am saying.

[stuck perch]

You can use chain lightning on a corpse instead of something who's trying to dodge your spell. It'll jump to them. Although if there's a lot of corpses it might just hit a bunch of corpses and not your enemies. If there are only 2 enemies and no corpses chain lightning is dangerous as it could backfire and hit you and your team.

[stuck perch]

There are many places to take data from, each map is a seperate place, both the normal and high roller version. You also need to consider that not everyone that does normal crypts is on the same level as each other. I'm sure the same is for HR.

[signal vapor]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486901/revert-automatically-grabbing-next-utility-slot

[merry kestrel]

Yeah that's basically the idea :^)

[gray flint]

if they are trying to balance classes it might help removing the stack. it justs adds to the frustration, even if it is funny sometimes

[short heath]

I would legit laugh every single time I died if it were to a Monk with our current punching animation. I wouldn't even care that I got ran down and punched to death.

[tulip hill]

but even without stacking you have Fighter, Ranger, Wizard which all have very solid ranged capability and then Bard can also use the crossbow and survival bow, rogue has the hand crossbow, and warlocks do also have a small amount of very spamable range
I don't think stacking is the real issue if that is your concern

[merry kestrel]

Upvote or leave a comment then

[exotic parrot]

We need an update that adds loot to the game soon, because there is none in normals and it is pretty stifling for new players or players who don't play very often.

[merry kestrel]

I always make 50g minimum, even on bad runs

[abstract swallow]

nah, they just need shop progression so Little Timmy LateWipe has somewhere to start, just gradually crank up EXP gains and Merchant Favor gains as a wipe goes on so it's easier and easier to do
right now loot is horribly bloated, even basic treasure rarity is so high that a single room can be worth over 100g in just sellables

I'm not talking HR rooms either, I'm talking "most spawns in LR crypts can roll multiple blue treasures"

[exotic parrot]

I mean searching a miniboss body or lions head chest and getting grey gear. Like that's a joke for somebody who doesn't get to play much that they kill something that is probably difficult for them and then they get rewarded with something that they could buy for 6 gold. It wouldn't hurt anything for that to be dropping green minimum with no increase to spawn rate of higher rarities.

[short heath]

Quantity is definitely more of an issue than quality in terms of collectibles in normals currently.

[abstract swallow]

I play Team Dad™️ so I'm used to hoovering up even bad collectibles and divvying them out for people during downtime, there's way more spawns for loose loot than people think, especially in Crypts.
The average single-tile room in Crypts has like 6 breakables, 2 chests, and a handful of loose spawns, and every single double-long tile (coffin rooms, doublehalls, stairs hall, etc) has over 20 potential spawn locations. You can fill an inventory without ever hitting a loot room like Small Library, Big Library, Mummy/Octopus, Cage, or Tower.

[stuck perch]

I'm not sure I want that. I want incentives to work towards those things not have them given to me because I made a character late. I don't max out my stuff by the next wipe 🤷‍♂️

[abstract swallow]

making it an opt-in thing when you first log in for a wipe would be neat
give all us little tryhards a little symbol next to our name, like an iron shield or something

[short heath]

Yep... I think in general people just don't know how to loot very well (meaning both quickly and efficiently traversing through certain rooms and looting/actually clearing other rooms).

[stuck perch]

That's a bit better, but I'd rather see incentives for restarting new characters midway through a wipe.

[exotic parrot]

I'm pretty sure I speak for the majority when I say that we really don't enjoy picking up trinkets to sell to merchants so that we can sit in trade chat to spend it spamming trade on blue gear just so we can see if it sh1t or not.

Would just like to find actual gear in the game, not high rarities, just not grey and white, that's ridiculous.

[abstract swallow]

nah, it wouldn't be character specific, it'd be a server wide multiplier
in fact, don't even make it opt-in, just make it a prestige thing for getting your merchants maxed as early into the wipe as possible
give us little server messages for who hits what merchant favor levels world first, and put little timestamps in their specific shops showing when you achieved the most recent level so we can beat our e-peens for bragging rights about getting week 1 maxed rep with the goblin merchant

[exotic parrot]

speaking specifically about howling crypts D1

[short heath]

Go to hell more often in normals. Content is very doable in base gear, and you get much better loot.

[midnight timber]

Okay, I have played for multiple playtests and now have hundreds of hours in the game since early access. I have played every class to at least 15, and I have to say Ironmace you have made one of the best games I have ever played. That being said, you have got to figure out your balance with Magic damage in this game. I know the caster classes need to be able to PVE but their numbers are way to high for PVP. In particular against rogues and fighters (fighters in armor). Wizards, Warlocks, Clerics, Bard songs. Even with gear a single spell just evaporates their health bars. No fight, no counter play = no fun. And yes I know a Fighter weapon hit to the head can do the same but a fighter is slower than those casters and have to get in range of the said head to do that. Bards do it through walls and floors... and rogues.. well that class just needs a ton of looking into. Ya stealth is very good, and they are super fast and double jump helps them get away. But the damage they put out is very low and the damage they take is deadly... literally. Like I said I think the game has the makings of a very very good game. But counter play to magic damage has to be found.

[analog turret]

🤓

[stuck perch]

There was talk about that and a lot of people like or at least don't hate the current trade system. It's also more interactive that just posting your stuff and getting your cash when it sells. Although honestly you can easily set up a marketplace in a discord community to buy/sell/trade loot.

[abstract swallow]

my brother in Christ you can pick up blue/purple gear from large chests and minibosses in crypts
it's part of why loot is so insanely bloated right now, you can pop a luck potion and pull multiple blues out of generic lowtier wooden boxes

[short heath]

Luck potion seems like a trap to most. It. Is. NOT. A. Trap. Do it.

[exotic parrot]

Honestly kinda hit or miss there too. Killed ghost king with my buddies the other day and got two blues with interaction speed on them.

[abstract swallow]

Luck potion honestly needs to be what candy is for, not gold. 1.5~2.4x chance for purples, over twice that for blues.

[stuck perch]

Counter play is needed throughout the game for most gameplay options. Adding counter play is also superior to just nerfing any nail that sticks out.

[exotic parrot]

Who in hell like the current trade? They have way too much time on their hands if they like that trade system, or they don't like being in raid.

[short heath]

You can only add so much counterplay, though. Otherwise you get into the territory of too many options to pick from that are good/players begin to feel that it is hopeless no matter what they bring into a match.

[stuck perch]

We are really far from inducing option paralysis. Besides it's not like you have to commit to a perk/spell/class to try it out.

[short heath]

I know, just pointing out that at some point it will get there. Nerfs and buffs should be small when they happen, and we really shouldn't be expecting much out of an EA game regardless. Not every class needs to have a counter to every other class, either.

[stuck perch]

Not every class needs a counter to everything, but I'll gladly take a bit of option paralysis rather than a favourite class feeling stale because you can only play it 2 ways.

[civic zodiac]

Trade need to be removed. It just open door to gold seller and make the game super p2w that should not be a thing in a game like this one #notop2w change my mind

[short heath]

I mean... how else do you play most classes? They all do typically have roles to fulfill - a Cleric doesn't stray much from being a heal/cleanse/rez bot and being a melee off tank... a Bard doesn't do anything beyond put out mediocre dps after buffing (and there's no other way to play it). Wizards can only really do dps via spells or dps via Ignite and going melee happy.

[tulip hill]

left a comment but I wanted to talk about the perk and skill design
lets start at the top; Unarmed Mastery is an obligatory perk idea, letting punches scale with your gloves in some way, though with the existence of the +armor enchantment I think it would be important to make it specifically use the glove's base armor. Wouldn't you agree?

[stuck perch]

Just make it easy to report people selling gold in trade and gathering hall.

[civic zodiac]

Lol u cant know who sell golds unless you buy from them and ... Gold seller used to do random trade with random player as protection so if they ban their trade list. Half of player will be innocent victims

[exotic parrot]

From what people here say, the bard should also be pulling purples from chests in normal lobbies all day too if they take the luck perk.

[short heath]

They do.

[exotic parrot]

I have a friend who plays bard with that perk, maybe he's hella unlucky, but if it really is that frequent on average that's a bit dumb.

[short heath]

It's not super frequent, but that perk is absolutely BIS and should be taken by every single Bard player.

[stuck perch]

Well for starters reporting the gold sellers and having them banned puts a dent in their economy as they have to buy another account. There might also be a way to track which computer they're using to place new accounts from their on a suspicion list and also the 5 day ban from trading and HR prevents them from just buying another account right away after they're banned and go back to spamming gold sites.

[tulip hill]

it gives 100 luck which is basically a free luck potion every game
so effectively you sacrifice a perk slot to save 50 gold a game which could then go on to give you even more profit

[stuck perch]

Also if it becomes a huge concern, IM can send a few employees to buy gold and see where the thread goes.

[civic zodiac]

I been fighting hard to get rid of gold seller since d2 and i came to the conclusion theres nothing to do as long theres trade. Gold seller barely never get banned for the reason i have. Described ahead. Thats why the only option is to have ssf economy

[stuck perch]

ssf economy?

[civic zodiac]

Solo self found

[tulip hill]

ironman!

[stuck perch]

meh, players would just team up and trade in the dungeon.

[civic zodiac]

More risky

I see it coming. Ppl who p2w will be fully gear non stop and others will have a hard time to buy good stuff cuz its gonna be overpriced as hell cuz of gold buyers

[abstract swallow]

Alright, I finally sucked up and gave the website my email. He's my suggestion in button-clicky form:
https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487582/make-luck-potions-cost-event-candy

TL;DR: Luck potions are too good, but instead of nerfing them, make them purchasable only with Event Candy.

[short arrow]

SO I want to drop this here so it gets debated (gotta go to bed) if this message ends up having a lot of thumbs-up I will make a forum post (also dont mind its structure its a copy paste of what I said in fighter chat): hey hum what do you think of adding some non immersive breaking way (dont remember the exact nerd term for that) of telling how bad you are hurt. Like for example in Dead Space you have the green goo tube on your back or like in Mordhau you have the blood decals on the body scaling with how low hp you are (which is what I would like to see in here)?

[abstract swallow]

I just want a ragged breathing sound to play after running/attacking/interacting depending on how wounded you are.

[stuck perch]

Countering Gold sellers requires the company to care, and also requires a lot of effort. Sellers are good at keeping a low profile or they wouldn't be making any money.

[tulip hill]

I kinda agree with this, though using candy as the currency I think is squandering the potential
I'd love to see a bargain system where the rare sellable items are used to get items like luck potions

[short arrow]

that could work but how can we estimate if you are 60% or 10%? Different audio cues that are different from each other so we dont confuse them? And also I think that it would be hard to tell at further ranges where blood decals would be more suited. What about having a combination of both? aight gotta go to bedge dont forget to give 👍 👎 so I know if I should post a forum thing

[civic zodiac]

Unless the sellers are the company itself. Would not be the first one to do it thats why they need to remove trading or at least remove the option to trade high quality items

[short arrow]

I just realised you cant react to the messages in here...f welp I will have to read a 300+ messages convo in 12 ish hrs 💀

[stable bough]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487105/add-a-setting-to-toggle-onoff-so-you-dont-automatically-grab-the-utility-item-in

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486125/make-the-normal-games-zero-to-hero-and-solve-the-gear-and-wipe-problem

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486068/treasure-hoard-needs-serious-attention

[abstract swallow]

I feel like candy's the best option here since it's:
A) Not gated by gold (which becomes less and less valuable over the course of a wipe)
B) Accessible to newer or weaker players (which encourages them to tackle more lucrative content)
C) Gives an alternative, baseline purpose to Candy (so that isn't solely dependent on gear-in-shop, which is slow and volatile, and non-applicable to most casual players at most times)
That said, making it a very high-end barter made out of boss drops wouldn't be a bad idea.

[midnight timber]

Oh and my second largest fuss with the game (and I dont think there is a way to fix this) is keeping players with super high gear levels out of normals. Highroller exists but there is nothing stopping someone from just putting on 4k worth of gear and destroying everything that moves in normals

[dusk vault]

any opinions on nerfing wiz bonus scaling to .75 for all spells but giving a 6th slot on memory

[abstract swallow]

Just bracket it at 25% HP intervals.
Below 75% means you'll pant when doing several things in a row without stopping, below 50% means you'll let out big sighs after walking for a bit or swinging a weapon, and under 25% you grit your teeth and seethe every time you interact with stuff or start moving.

[stable vale]

Trash the current trading system and replace it with a marketplace where people can post what they want to sell and for how much. Leave filters as is so you can buy what you want and have a home page for it filtered by class and what's most recently been posted and boom, you have now fixed the most annoying part of the game; waiting 30+ minutes for your friend or yourself to put together a kit to get back into the dungeon.

[abstract swallow]

Spells will get individual scaling, the 'balance' team is very small so it's not going to happen quickly.
As for more spell slots, wait until Class Trainer drops for stuff like that.

[dusk vault]

fair point

[shut portal]

there has got to be some kind of gear control especially in goblin cave

[short arrow]

add visual cues and it would legit be perfect

[mystic silo]

I think the bard should be able to use the rubysilver leather headpiece it’s all that’s missing to complete the set for bard and it bothers me so much

[abstract swallow]

the timegate on gear is a feature not a bug, autotrade would just make it so you have every optimal kit at your fingertips as minimum/maximum cost (depending on if a particular thing was trade manipulated or not) while also completely trivializing gold gain

[abstract swallow]

nah, goblin caves is a solo gimmick mode, there's no balance there to even warrant considering a gearcap (which is a bad system in its own right)

[short arrow]

I dont like the spam fest in the trade rooms but its kinda necessary

[stuck perch]

There should be a cap on gear found in goblin cavs so you can't just farm it over lower drop maps.

[abstract swallow]

I dislike your wording, but I agree with the message of this post
to be clear, the loot pool of Goblin Caves should be reduced so that it's not better than Crypt, thereby discouraging geared solo farming
it should, ideally, be slightly better than F1 of Forgotten Castle

[short arrow]

I mean I would like as a low gear player be able to get a bunch of greens and maybe a blue or two for when I get to play with my buddies… trying to progress solo aint easy and playing solo in ruins is not a good option as there is way more pve

[stable vale]

Never referred to it as a bug but more of a quality of life change. I can't speak for others but for my friends and I, we all find it very irritating to NOT be able to have the gear we want at our fingertips if somebody is willing to sell it. I think that it maybe would have negative effects on gear that doesn't have the rolls that everybody is learning to spec into for certain classes, but then again the economy is already reflecting that and has been for some time. I don't understand how it would make gold trivial, what do you mean by that?

[mystic silo]

I think greens and couple blues is fair and makes it to where solo players aren’t always getting yanked just trying to get decent gear. Plus even if you didn’t get good gear from goblin people would still go in geared to gain easy gold from sellables anyway even if they are just grey white and green sellabes because they’d kill everyone else easily

[abstract swallow]

'its a feature not a bug' is a phrase, I didn't mean it literally
It would make gold gain trivial by allowing everyone to immediately liquidate all found gear, rather than only gear that is valuable or exceptional. (read: will sell quickly)
If you were able to turn every blue weapon or small plate armor you find that isn't complete trash straight into 85gp+, can you imagine how fast that would cap out your stash? If half the garbage gear you picked up could be flipped at 0 effort or time investment? You'd be straight back to PT3 levels of shop utility/med spam while cranking up prices for anything better than mediocre.

that said, complaints about the economy are valid right now because of how insanely overtuned loot is for testing purposes this wipe

[glacial hinge]

certain rolls need to be removed entirely like item equip speed and spell cap % when we already ahve base spell cap theres no neeed. Buff action speed items with a cap max attack speed for all weapons.

[signal vapor]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486901/revert-automatically-grabbing-next-utility-slot

[stuck perch]

Goblin caves feels like it should have it's own F1, making caves roughly the same as crypt. But then again, I also think crypts should have a cap on loot quality as well to motivate players to go deeper and also to provide a nice slow scaling of gear.

[stuck perch]

I get you there. Crypt isn't that bad if you want to rat, you can also survive inferno if you know how to dodge the mobs.

[fair bluff]

Gearscore is a must! Please add it!

[stuck perch]

What would you hope to achieve with this?

[fair bluff]

Limit ppl with entering GC or other normal duns with massive gear difference. It’s unplayable and ridiculous. HR was made for that.

[abstract swallow]

Trying to balance GC is a fool's errand. Don't give it any balance-oriented matchmaking or entry rules, it's a party gamemode designed for quick rounds and fast PvP.

[abstract swallow]

All GearScore would do is make so that pubstompers and gold farmers have unlimited access to babby lobbies.

[stuck perch]

How would you balance GC to do that?

[fair bluff]

Huh? Fools errand how!? So 9 ppl at level 10 should face some level 20 full purple dude and you think that’s fair!? That’s game intent? Easy money is right though. Just one shot everything

[abstract swallow]

That literally is the game's intent, yes. The gamemode Dark and Darker is balanced around is based around everyone starting on the same floor, with some more dangerous and better prepared parties geared to go deeper than the others.
And you've hit the nail on the head as to why 1-floor limited-queue modes are bad for the game: They're quick, easy money it's easy to overgear for.

[fair bluff]

I’d there’s gearscore, you can limit with what they can enter. A single blue or even one purple is a lot, but ppl can still fight it off. Full blue and purple is just near impossible. Each item has a score, jewelry or otherwise with their rarity considered as well. It’s simple

[stuck perch]

So are we talking you taking the average GC or total GC of a character?

[marble onyx]

How are you supposed to report teamers if it's only possible when they're in lobby or alive after killing you

[fair bluff]

You don’t understand. If you limit with gearscore, your HR queues will be even shorter. And if they lose everything then have to go back to normal and farm. In that same sense the flow of ppl will be constant

[abstract swallow]

If it's simple, it's exploitable.
If it's a hard cap, it makes it easier to farm baby lobbies since they'll never have anything strong or unexpected.
If it's a soft bracketing, it punishes normal, innocent players for using loot they've found or bought instead of going in naked/default.
And both options screw over martial classes like Barbarian and Fighter that REQUIRE high rarity armor in order to get their basic defenses online.

[stuck perch]

A gear score system is indeed easily exploitable.

[fair bluff]

How would you exploit when you can still get one-tapped even if you have a blue on? Just one item doesn’t put a massive advantage on. But when you have one guy with full purple, he literally kills the entire lobby with no hope for any chance for anyone to fight. THAT is an exploit!

[abstract swallow]

You can kill people in full purples with less, even Fighters. This most recent update made it even more intuitive by squishing damage down in rarity.
The system you're asking for will only create full-on hostage lobbies where people with optimized gearsets have 15 other players that are completely helpless against them; which is somehow even worse than what we have now, where sweaty stompsquads still have to risk their gear against other (potentially) equally or better geared players.

[stuck perch]

Get a decent rogue's weapon that's allowed in the lower lobby. Strip naked, except for a pair of grey lightfoot boots and run at lightspeed through the caves 2 taping everything before they can even react. Oh and I can turn invisible too.

This can be done at a very low gear score and can double tap just about anything that has less than 200 health.

[fair bluff]

If I am a ranger and I hit a fighter with full purple on and he’s just walking towards me… not even trying to avoid the hit. I hit the guy 6 times and twice in the head and guess what!?? 10% of his health went down. I was lvl 14 with basic gear and he was 20 with stacked purple. He cleared the lobby, killed the barb (also with one green) with full loot and left with everything after he mined for cobalt… with zero worry about anything else… that is ridiculous and shouldn’t be allowed.

[stuck perch]

Oh and the build just about ignores armor too.

What quality of bow did you have? Did you take any of the options available to you to counter play that type of character?

[fair bluff]

One blue, two tap, but you make one mistake and your dead. Seen it all the time in HR. 5k or 7k rogue gets two tapped by ranger when he got caught.

[stuck perch]

Sure it's a high skill cap class, but no one who's still learning the game will have much of a chance against him.

[abstract swallow]

It's exactly what should be allowed, the only issue is that it's incentivized because of how rich Low Roller is in loot right now. That's what needs to be fixed, not the ability for players to use gear in menial content.
What are you doing at level 14 in your default gear? You should at least be buying the basics from the shop like new weapons and boots.
Why do you expect to be able to compete in a hardcore extraction game with no gear? Why should everyone else be limited to your level to protect you?

[fair bluff]

It’s not about quality, the point is between me and someone else in my own gear level we could have a fight. It comes downs to skill or positioning. Between him and the rest, it was just stats.

[stuck perch]

Skill and positioning is a tiny part of the game. They're important in their own right, but counterplay starts before the match when you set your perks and skills as well as when you're buying supplies.

[fair bluff]

Tell me then, you both sound like someone that ran GC with full kit. Did it feel challenging!? Or you just went for your guaranteed gold?

[stuck perch]

Check this video out. It's not a ranger but it's eye opening.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6lcXxLcFfg

[stuck perch]

My idea of "full kit" is a bunch of whites and maybe some low quality greens. If I'm going to run GC it'll likely be with something barely better than the base kit.

[abstract swallow]

And here comes the usual cope and seeth of someone called out on begging for a gearscore system because they wanted to have their gear fear pampered by the game lmao
I don't touch GC with a 10ft pole, it's a garbage gamemode. I solo in Crypts.

[stuck perch]

Yeah solo crypts is better for new players. Always has been. It's the main map for the game.

[abstract swallow]

Yeah solo crypts is better. Always has been. It's the main map for the game.
fixed that typo for you 👌🏻

[stuck perch]

It's the better map indeed. But it's also a better start for new players. Hence that part.

[slow slate]

sorry but im a goblin caves boi...

[fair bluff]

Here’s another toxic player failing to understand a simple concept.

[abstract swallow]

Try exploring outside your comfort zone once you've got all your perks and a bit of cash to run at least shop gear. You'd be surprised how smoothly Crypts goes for a solo once you're familiar with the map and spawns.

[stuck perch]

Why is he toxic?

[stuck perch]

Even without all your perks. I've barely done any goblin caves after the wipe. Did a bit before.

[slow slate]

Oh i def do. I actually wish that they hr and non hr maps wernt seperate instead when u join a normal it could be one of the two at random. likewise with crypts. same theme but mix it up every now and again.

[stuck perch]

That would scrap the idea of the ante and also scare the shit out of new players who land in a HR map on their first couple tries.

[fair bluff]

Read what he said. I don’t go to crypts and complain about dying solo. It’s for 3s, it’s their spot, if I make it then great if not too bad. But a solo map means I should have a chance. A chance! Why do you think HR has an entry cost!? That is the same as putting a cap on it! Do you get it!?

[slow slate]

Oh i dont mean u get put in HR at random im meaning Normal mode but the HR layout. Or the normal mode layout but HR difficulty.

[abstract swallow]

I can be as toxic as I want, I'm still right.
You just admitted you were upset you got rolled by a fullkit Fighter in GC, while you were in default gear. At Level 14.
Admit it, this isn't about fair play or balance. This is about you being too scared and stingy to properly prepare to fight someone that might be a threat, or perhaps just too low-skill to figure out how to do so on your own.

[stuck perch]

Crypts isn't for 3s, it's an excellent solo, duo and trio map. Tons of people solo or duo in it and there even was a time when it was all we had. Granted they messed up by increasing the player cap and when they added spawns in the middle of the dungeon but aside from that it's a great map.

The monsters in crypts are also generally easier to handle as a new player.

[slow slate]

Its a gear related game tbh. if you care that much about skill being the deciding factor and want a gear score then you may aswell just remove gear at that point coz its just becomes background fluff. the better you get the more you extract. which in turn you end up with better items and money.

[fair bluff]

Dear god… this man just doesn’t get it…. The threat that you speak of, it needs to be relative to me. Get it?? Meaning that I have a possibility of beating it even in default gear because the area is for default!! Do you understand that!? GC normal is meant for level 1s! Meaning someone buys the game and enters and is there. Not for someone with 2000 hours wanting to leave with full inventory of just cash

[stuck perch]

That's a good point.

[stuck perch]

Don't be too rough on him. He needs to understand how he can improve.

[fair bluff]

Huh? It’s a skill related game my man lol gear is just the basics of it! Why do you think in HR or leaderboards the fights are intense! It’s cause the gear gap isn’t that big to make a massive difference!

[stuck perch]

Or maybe because you've seen fights between very skilled teams.

[slow slate]

Why do you think they got to HR though and have intense fights? its coz they have mechanically improved and got consistent enough to have backup resources.

[fair bluff]

Bro, how to improve!? Your joking right? I just have to trade my 5k gold for bunch blues and purples and walk back into GC…. I am not sayin this for me!!! Jesus you ppl really don’t know how bad it is for someone of these guys. They can’t learn the game when their being rolled lol

[stuck perch]

Did you watch the video I posted above?

[fair bluff]

Yup, seen the guy play the game since alpha god knows when. He parried and landed his magic on him. The fighter was an idiot to just jump him. No fighter with that much gear I’ve come across has ever done that. It’s crossbow hit first, then they come if your still alive

[slow slate]

Getting rolled is part of learning the game. You see big boi you avoid big boi. its like trying to fight a lion and then complaining. Logically you dont fight a lion coz u know they will rek u. I will go into lobbys naked with just a torch and come out with a decent inventory simply coz of the fact that i listen for footsteps and know my place in the food chain given my equipment and current health situation.

[fair bluff]

Cobalt and Ruby silver needs to leave GC. That way it’s gated behind HR and ppl have to risk for it. Every time you join a lobby the risk has to match for every person.

[stuck perch]

The fighter was out of crossbow bolts. Maybe he didn't bring enough, maybe some rogue stole them. But crossbow shots are hard to land if the target isn't standing still. Besides if they're going to fight at a distance the warlock has the advantage due to no reload time on his spells.

[abstract swallow]

Alright, since someone asked nicely, let me break it down for you.
Goblin Caves is not meant for level 1s, it's meant for fast PvP and short rounds.
The closest this game has has to an intended area for lowbies was The Forgotten Castle, Floor 1 of the Crypts-Inferno dungeon that still hasn't been added back in, but even there all players were mixed equally.
The core of this game is not balanced eSports-style Battle Royale matches, it's a hardcore extraction dungeoncrawler. Meeting people of different, sometimes drastically different gear levels is part of the concept and its appeal: Everyone starts out on the same level, hurting or helping eachother deeper into the dungeon, with each floor becoming more dangerous but lucrative. Part of this is risking your supplies and gear with every encounter you take-- that expensive full purple kit the Fighter in your story was wearing was worth thousands of gold, and he was risking it to do mining, when a single bad matchup or coordinated 2v1 in the caves could have killed him without much effort. It only takes one disadvantageous scenario for someone, regardless of gear, to lose it all. Especially in a place as intentionally unbalanced and silly as a solos gamemode.

The game is not intended to be easy or safe, it's meant to be a risk of everything you take into the dungeon, and you just have to hope you're good and lucky enough to make it back out of the dungeon with the same or better. Embrace this, abandon your fear of losing gear and wealth, and you'll enjoy the game much more and learn to laugh at every small victory you take over people risking far more than you've got in your stash, when you've just drained several hundred gold worth of healing out of their bank accounts, until you're finally able to start taking them on and winning.

[slow slate]

not being salty but this sounds like straight copium.

[stuck perch]

Nor is the game intended to be fair either.

[fair bluff]

Lmao you guys need help

[abstract swallow]

honestly I agree on some level here
cobalt should be the max accessible in low roller crypt and all 1-floor gamemodes, with rubysilver only being in inferno and HR crypt

[slow slate]

not really coz we play the game have fun and dont cry about other players killing us?

[fair bluff]

“Game not intended to be fair” hahahah

[stuck perch]

Actually I think ore should be removed from GC as well. Ruby silver shouldn't happen before inferno if even that. Cobalt shouldn't be on the first map of a map stack either.

[slow slate]

If i go into HR naked is it fair? im risking nothing when there are players with capes?

[fair bluff]

You pay 100 gold or more. That’s your risk to be killed instantly with no chance. It’s basically burning money.

[slow slate]

risk to be killed instantly with no chance? yes if i run into a room and agro everything or try 1v1 a geared player yes. but risking 100 is far less than risking 1k worth of gear and 100g plus its 50g not 100

[fair bluff]

Still a risk. You could go naked and maybe loot and extract, but if someone fights you, you can’t defend your loot

[slow slate]

you can def defend ur loot.

[abstract swallow]

okay
okay
you're getting somewhere, you titan of intellect
now apply this same logic to putting gear on before the game

[bleak dagger]

please remove Rogue from the game

[fair bluff]

Show me, go naked and fight someone that is in gear for HR. DM me the clip

[slow slate]

thats the point if im naked i wont try to fight a geared player... i will run or try my best to avoid players to lessen that circumstance?

[fair bluff]

As I said, you may get lucky and extract once or twice, but ultimately that strategy of paying 100 gold each time, go in naked and hope to come out is gonna make you go broke

[slow slate]

thats my point though. If u are good you become consistant enough to the point that it isnt much of an issue

[fair bluff]

Ah man, I rest my case, I just can’t get through lol I guess we’ll see, the company doesn’t make this game for the hardcore players it makes it for masses. Gearscore will be implemented, just watch

[abstract swallow]

man you're gonna be really disapointed when you read the tagline of the game
a Hardcore PvPvE Multiplayer Dungeon Crawling experience

[fair bluff]

Lol I’ll send you a DM with “told you” when they add it. Just watch

[soft grove]

When will we see class levels?

[abstract swallow]

When they do, I'll make sure to build a fun little gearscore calculator so everyone can stomp crybabies like you with onetap builds while you hide in your safe space.

[fair bluff]

Sure bud, sure. Since gear is all you have, you’re probably trash anyway.

[bleak dagger]

Gearscore makes absolutely no sense in this game. You could as well just remove gear entirely from the game.

[slow slate]

I said the same thing

[abstract swallow]

I'm not the one still playing in default kits at level 14

[slow slate]

tbh the gearing system in this game is no different to mobas except u lose u gear if u die.

[fair bluff]

I’ve leveled my fighter to 20, I was on my ranger.

[abstract swallow]

I was just giving you shit because it was funny, but the fact that this wasn't your first character actually makes it kind of embarrassing
like why would you admit that WHILE I'm ribbing you over it
I'm just gonna cut you some slack. Go to bed man, it's a school night.

[slow slate]

I fill my stash with grey agi or str leather whenever im low so that i can go in with some additional stats to improve my survival. then i gradually make my way up.

[fair bluff]

Let me explain for the last time.

Gear should and must matter. Without it, you should be annihilated, almost every time. It’s a fundamental concept of this game! But where that gear is used is key!

In HR being naked should mean suicide 9/10 times. In normal you’re chances should be similar to the rest with minor advantages based on drops or luck. Nothing that would put you beyond someone means to kill or challenge.

[abstract swallow]

okay the pants I get, but why the gloves
those are always avaliable in unlimited greys

[slow slate]

str ones arnt always available so i make sure to at least have some in case

[abstract swallow]

ah, gotcha
yeah that's a decent habit to get into, always have backup kits on standby if you can

[slow slate]

yeah coz even going in like that is 10x better than a normal kit. i just drop the normal kit. have no intentions on being slowed down for lack luster stats. back b4 rogue starting weps got buffed i dropped the daggers and just used the torch. the range was longer and it was a minimal dmg diff

[bleak dagger]

let me quote you on this:
GooZFaBa — heute um 09:56 Uhr
Sure bud, sure. Since gear is all you have, you’re probably trash anyway.

IMO you are just a stupid scumbag that cannot think through his emotions with any logic.

[void remnant]

I feel like there needs to be a world market im too old to be be spending so much time in trader

[slow slate]

yeah i agree. being good at this game isnt simply about someones fighting ability. knowing rooms, when to fight, how to avoid fights, trap locations, pve mob patterns are tbh more important coz if u die to the environment u dont really have a chance at pvping anyway.

[soft grove]

Who gives a sh, just have some fun

[slow slate]

I am. they obviously are not.

[fair bluff]

That was a response to the guy before and watch your mouth kid.

[slow slate]

yo mans so hard. better watch out

[versed nebula]

please vote guys https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486581/remove-bard

[bleak dagger]

What they really should do is removing rogues from the game unless they are heavily modified. They are broken in any way possible and ruining the game experience. Besides providing some content for kiddo youtubers the lobbies are filled with halve rogues- and that's not a coincidence. As well as 60% of the goblin caves lobbies there is this one geared rogue trashing the lobby in minutes by himself. You cannot do that with any other class. You cannot escape them, while they can everytime. There is no skill involved in stealthing near an escape portal and fucking up people- and for the worst part: there is no counterplay. Armor doesn't matter against rogues. Speed doesn't matter, since they are faster anyway. And the damage output is insane.

[abstract swallow]

Remove the Rogues from the game yourself. God gave you a crossbow proficiency, use it. Start onetapping bozos wearing shadow masks.

[fair bluff]

Hahahaha this man wants to take an entire class out lol 😂… I just wanted a fair battleground Lolol

[soft grove]

Haha when you say it, that happened to me so many times, the camping invis near portal or exit, I die alot to that 😂

[bleak dagger]

yeah it's okay we know you are the CoD mlg 360 no scope kiddo god

[vernal hedge]

get good

[glacial moon]

There is too much lights from touches in dungeons, the game is called dark and darker and even in loading screen u has a tanky dude with a sword and a lantern. So my question and suggestion is when are the touches gonna be turned off.. No one uses lanterns forexample because the whole dungeon is full of lights! Also would it not make things way more interesting if the dungeons was actually dark and u had to turn on lights on your way if u wanted more light?

[bleak dagger]

If it would be completely dark, nobody would use lanterns either. Why? Because everyone can see you, while you cannot see them.

[glacial moon]

I think way more would use lanterns than they are - also you had to be in same room to see someone using the lantern so not everyyone.

[vernal hedge]

nobody uses lanterns because they require you to have a main hand 1 handed weapon to use with and reduce your movespeed, make the lanterns rarer and let us just have them in our toolbelt to provide light´

[rocky sage]

Would really love the merchants to have a more precise collection of weapons. So many times I wait multiple "merchant refreshes" to still not be able to purchase a simple grey longbow or regal gambeson. The shops should carry all basic (grey) weapons ALWAYS, same with potions from the alchemist and bandages from the surgeon. If we have money, let us spend it!

[glacial moon]

I still feels there is too much lights they could just turn off every second touch instead of having them all put to on pretty much - Donno just feels bad to have a whole dungeon full of lights with a circle becoming smaller and smaller. Also game is called dark and darker so u would assume the dungeons are dark asf but they ain't.

[abstract swallow]

Having some light sources randomly toggled off at the start of lobbies would be nice.

[glacial moon]

Yeah i donno just feels wierd to have that much light in dungeons tbh - even as rogue u can't turn that many touches off before the circle are becoming smaller and smaller - and u wont get much loot if u try turn off the whole dungeons lights

[abstract swallow]

Honestly it has more to do with the fact that this is the new lighting values with the old maps
Blue Crypts lighting was MUCH better and shadow heavy

[nova fox]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/482418/new-game-mode-basic-gear-only

[glacial moon]

Yeah i also noticed a big difference

[versed nebula]

Here is my suggestion ! https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486581/remove-bard

[grim fiber]

Barb usually rush more than rogue especially in GC
Wiz can do more than rogue in an extend fight, just need skill to do it
You are loosing as a fighter to a rogue is skill issue buddy, sorry to say

[slow slate]

i think the lighting is right when someone can hide in a room without torches or little to no torches on and not get seen at least 5/10 times.

[vernal hedge]

nobody cares about your dead suggestion

[versed nebula]

Soon 100 votes don’t be angry my friend

[vernal hedge]

so?
hit me up when they remove bard then.
my point is that you are annyoing spamming a "suggestion" that doesnt fix or resolve anything, it a pure removal which is stupid and wont happen

[versed nebula]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486581/remove-bard

[rocky sage]

Here's a really good suggestion. Fix your servers. Stop the rubberbanding, getting glued to walls, stutters, all of it. Or at least address it. There's no way it's only ddos at this point

[vernal hedge]

meh must be rough being skill checked by a bard every game

[nova fox]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/482418/new-game-mode-basic-gear-only

[glacial moon]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487607/turn-off-touches-in-dark-and-darker

[bleak dagger]

could you at least stop calling it 'touches'. What does that even mean?

[void remnant]

this game is so dumb now they need to fix so much especially that stupid studdy that wasnt in tests

like nerf bard and warlock over the wiz why can the bard tank so much!

[toxic prairie]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487581/colorblind-setting-for-the-ring-and-red-skeletons - not mine but feels important

[void remnant]

why can the warlock 1 tap so many people and heal if he gets the stats. no other class can do that shit then we have the cheaters this game really starting to get lame ngl they dont know how to counter these variables they just listen to streamers it feels like. high roller should be free till they fix the cheater problem because now we get cheaters and full purp players in normals and that is lame af

[slow slate]

fighter can? longsword and 2nd wind?

[void remnant]

this game is going to die because average people cant have fun

[slow slate]

skill issue

[void remnant]

no people who work 40-50-60 hrs a week cant keeps up with otakus

[dense marlin]

Wdym? Normal Dungeons are super easy. If u cant do them after a full work shift thats on you.

[slow slate]

then play another game. no one is forcing you to play a hardcore dungeon delving game

[void remnant]

plus cheaters i legit just got killed by someone who SMG me with rapid fire on a longbow

[dense marlin]

Which servers are you on? tried to swap? i maybe run into a cheater once a week..

[void remnant]

@dense marlinNah i ran into a decent amount not so much when highroller was free. i legit wacked a full graybard 4 times with a warhammer and he didnt die and it was blue

[dense marlin]

Well its bard, its a completly broken class that for some braindamaged reason from the devs didnt get fixed in WEEKs now. At least they could remove crossbow and dmgsongs that are full on bugged. But whatever, Ironmace is kinda slow XD

[slow slate]

bard does have a lot of buffs

[somber wind]

Damn that sounds like an extraction game isn't for you

[void remnant]

game gonna die for the average player just saying

[dense marlin]

Maybe u hit his arm twice, he will easily surive then. Its more tanky than a fighter if fully buffed.

[hallow saffron]

im an otaku? I work 40+ a week and can roll lobbies

[void remnant]

@hallow saffronyou legit can not be an otaku working 40 hours a week

[dense marlin]

It wont, just like tarkov didnt, at least not for those reasons i can tell you 100%. I only play with fulltime workers and they all better than me whos been jobless for 2 weeks now :P

[somber wind]

This is because it's not on steam, we'll get back on there and get back up to the 300k avg. we had before

[void remnant]

@hallow saffronthat is american otaku

[hallow saffron]

I keep up with the people who can play this game 24/7 so that must mean im an otaku according to your made up classification

[dense marlin]

This is also true: The lobbies are way harder right now since we dont have all the braindamage potatos from staem :D

[somber wind]

When we have them back the game will also be a little bit easier since we'll have them around as well lol

[dense marlin]

Anyways, main problem atm is bard and the portals at the final circles being hella wierd most of the time in 3man map xD And ofc the full support meta is kinda aids.

[somber wind]

Speaking of brain damage, please add blue light recoloring options (in general, colorblind options usually solve this issue even though it's not color blindness); I have neurological problems and that screws me up LUL.

[void remnant]

full adc teams beat the sup meta

[dense marlin]

Plus rogues ambush capabilities should be nerfed while increasing his real combat capabilities maybe a little

[versed nebula]

This is my suggestion soon 100 votes https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486581/remove-bard

[void remnant]

but its not like you can kill a boss in hell with full adc

[dense marlin]

Maybe if ur support is super dogshit yes xD otherwise not a single time in 1000 tries u will beat a good supportmetateam with ANY teamcomp.

[hallow saffron]

no... bard + cleric + any frontline class or bard, cleric, wiz with all the buffs going on bard is insane.

[somber wind]

Bard is fine, It's more so that SP scaling is completely messed up and it causes Cleric to be busted. Let me find where I explained it before.

[void remnant]

no you just need to get to their backline and kill the cleric or bard first and they done

[somber wind]

Found it:

Resting provides base 8 SP per tick. Chorale of Clarity provides base 2 SP per tick.

SP Recharge per tick (SP/tick) = Base Recharge + Spell Capacity
It is 4x more effective to rest than it is to have Chorale apply to you for regaining spells while both suck pretty bad as Recharge Cost (SP) = 100 * Tier so Zap for example requires 100 SP to restore 1 cast/Fireball being Tier 5 makes it require 500 SP.

This means BOTH require the person regaining spells to have Knowledge/Spell Capacity for it to be even vaguely useful. The spell is NOT overpowered and is NOT insane. The issue is how well SP scales.

To note: Campfires provide 34 SP per tick.
It takes 12.5 seconds to get 1 cast of Zap back from resting. It takes 50 seconds from Chorale. This is all before Knowledge/Spellcasting Speed.

[void remnant]

which ranger kills bard ez

[dense marlin]

Sry man if u think bard is "fine" ur literally not thinking about it or have literally no idea what the hell you are talking about xD

[somber wind]

I know the numbers, the issue with Bard is SP which is a problem for ALL classes right now; people just don't realize it yet. Infinite Second Wind is actually fairly easy for example.

[dense marlin]

Gl gettin my bard that is 10x faster than you and knows how to play, good luck getting my cleric who will hugsuck the supportline that will instant clap you.

[hallow saffron]

its not the SP recharge that makes bard strong zandorum. its the stat buffs, the ms and AS buffs, the armour and MR buffs, the fact that they can hit 225 luck, being able to do 20 damage a tick through walls with din.

Also bard doesnt restore second wind. that can only be restored at a campfire

[somber wind]

Bard's Chorale of Clarity exposes the problems with SP. SP doesn't have diminishing returns and all it is is Knowledge - 6.

[dense marlin]

I think you guys dont play the game enough tbh xD Numbers arent what makes a class op btw. never have been

[somber wind]

I'm personally fine with Din being removed tbh (and I'm a bard). It's a bit much. Chorale doesn't need to be nerfed, SP needs to change.

[void remnant]

his buff dont go that far and if you catch the bard looting he can more than likely be 1 tapped in the head with a crossbow]

[somber wind]

Oh 100%

[vernal hedge]

same reason that tarkov died... oh wait

[dense marlin]

There are several songs that are way overtuned, there is no limit to his buffing capabilities, there is no limit on how many songs can stack on a teammate or urself, you can use range and meele weapons(the best ones btw), ur among the 3 fastest classes in the game which makes you EXTREMLY hard to counter. Idk, i could go on but iam kidna tired of listing up shit that is extremly obviouse

[somber wind]

Din also got hit hard, it requires quite alot of gear to become useful again since it has 12% Attribute Ratio now

[void remnant]

@vernal hedgepretty sure its the cheaters in the labs

[hallow saffron]

show me one video of a good bard standing still to loot..

[dense marlin]

Only man that can kill tarkov is nikitas inner russian fulltard monke xD

[vernal hedge]

it was sarcasm, the game is far from dead and keeps growing, cheaters in labs do be a fucking pain, loved when the map was playable

[somber wind]

No there is things to what you're saying that are right however I do think that the Bard having access to Bows/Hand Crossbows seems obnoxious.

[dense marlin]

You realize u can use piercing shriek for this now and it deals tons of more dmg? :D

[somber wind]

Physical damage though and yes I do and I do it.

[void remnant]

@vernal hedgeactually lost 2/3 player base

[vernal hedge]

oh really? and where are those stats?

[dense marlin]

Well give cleric a 150m range dmgspell then pls and tell me he would be balanced. You can literally do Magicdmg, Meelephysdmg and Rangephysdmg on a class that with buffs outruns you 100%, healsfaster, opens everything faster, can loot better, finds better loot man idk u REALLY dont understand shit if u think bard is ANYWHERE near a balanced spot.

[somber wind]

Tarkov is a little bit dying right now, but that really is due to cheaters and less due to game content; as long as DaD can maintain a nice anti-cheat setup we wont have to worry about it. (Tarkov's anti-cheat is a joke btw, DaD's Anti-cheat is already stronger)

[dense marlin]

Plus ALL those people running bard right now surely do it because its a balancedd class xDDDDD

[void remnant]

@vernal hedgejuly 2022 over 300k now 131.9k

[somber wind]

I personally play bard because I liked the way it plays. I kinda got bored on most classes, the minigame keeps my hands busy.

[void remnant]

id post it but violating rules and all

[vernal hedge]

and where are the numbers from because they don't really share them

[void remnant]

never heard of mmostats?

[hallow saffron]

you do realize that tarkovs playerbase waxes and wanes based on wipes? some people only play to X extent then stop playing cause they got what they wanted out of the game

[dense marlin]

Also dont forget that tarkov has become a super slowpaced shitshooter in the patches since inertia.

[rain stone]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487615/default-kit-mode

[dense marlin]

That killed a major part of the pvp heavysided communitybase that is also the major party for promoting the game i would say.

[somber wind]

Tbh to me Ranger is the most overtuned right now; Bard does have some stuff that needs to be handled but Ranger gets me the most upset compared to all the classes. Like yeah Barbarian headshots are annoying, same for Warlock (headshots with blow I mean) but those don't seem to tick me off as much.

[dense marlin]

We know that, no worries, but no matter that this start of wipe like 90% of my tarkovbuds slowly started to play like SOME raids but noone is pushing it anymore as all feel that the game is just gettin worse every patch. Nothing to do with cheaters even.

[void remnant]

@somber windnot to mention the secrect buff they got to recurve bows

[errant sigil]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487616/rage-change-minor

[void remnant]

use to be 24 now 27 while claiming they nerfed all weps

[dense marlin]

Traps need to be removed or just be a slow, like they would be in reallife. Longbowdmg needs to be adjusted and crossbow, once people understand how sick it can hit, might need some nerfs too but iam not so sure about this. But Bard is stronger in every way still unless u run into a trap. Way more versatile, just simply overpowerd as i said.

[vernal hedge]

nope, never but also don't necessarly trust it as for example as per that website I don't exist because I only play the game instead of consuming content from it

[hallow saffron]

oh yeah i mean even with that they are still hitting around 2 million monthly players

[somber wind]

Nah they didn't nerf, they pulled everything low up a little and everything high down quite alot

[glacial moon]

Sry for lack in english. But if u don't know what im talking about even tho i spell wrong. Then i think IQ is pretty low

[dense marlin]

Where you get those numbers from bro? :D

[hallow saffron]

https://activeplayer.io/escape-from-tarkov/

[void remnant]

@vernal hedgethe recurve use to do 24 now it does 26 dmg which is a lot if you are level 15

[vernal hedge]

and it does show that the game is growing so not sure whats your point, only the past update thats was basically only tech stuff and no content saw a drop in players has per the website, and this was to be expected has this is meant to be a short 4 month wipe before the big update

[void remnant]

@vernal hedgetarkov?

[vernal hedge]

yes

[void remnant]

what you posted was like way way worse then the stats i grabbed from mmostats so idk what you mean

[vernal hedge]

and what did I post, remind me?

[void remnant]

use the search

[dense marlin]

Iam tryin to figure out how this side gets its data, because its way off from everything ive heard. Also its way off on other games i checked and compared to steamcharts for example. I dont know if that shit is right man, i somewhat daut it but maybe my friends and i are just wierdos :P

[hallow saffron]

steam charts only collects from steam. myself for example dont play tarkov through steam

[vernal hedge]

its bullshit guessing through views and attention the game gets in social media, aka, your guess is as good as the other

[dense marlin]

You cant even play tarkov through steam, thats why the data on tarkov is so shit i know ^^

So i guess they get their data from BSG/Nikita which is basically a lie by default as this man CANT speak the truth xD

[hallow saffron]

forgot that

[dense marlin]

I mean if like 5 friends of mine stop playing tarkov with me without us speaking about it and we all do it at the same wipe/time theres only a slim chance left its like a phenomenon for my subclass of people xD

[void remnant]

i just honestly hope dark and darker comes out on a console where its way more encrytped then pc then when ik i die its mostly skill then turning on and off some cheats ngl or using macros

[dense marlin]

Lets just hope AI Anticheat dominates em all soon xD

[hallow saffron]

PFFFT CONSOLE MORE ENCRYPTED THEN PC?!?

[vernal hedge]

hopefully not anytime soon, they got plenty more to worry about other than developing for 2 platforms, and better no include any auto aim bs

[void remnant]

@dense marlinname one game on pc where its done that

@hallow saffron1000 times more encrypted which is why its rare you run into modders on the newer gens of consoles

compared to halo 2 when you had bridgers and modders

[versed nebula]

This my suggestion https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486581/remove-bard

[vernal hedge]

skill issue

[glacial moon]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487607/turn-off-touches-in-dark-and-darker
Turn off lights, game is too bright, no one uses lanterns, they sell them for gold because of "game has too much light source and thus no need for lanterns" - Which breaks the whole idea of someone holding a weapon and a lantern (Yes yes u can say it gives -mov speed) but that's not the idea of a lantern, the idea is u world use it because the dungeon had light source off!

[void remnant]

@glacial moongo play ruins

[glacial moon]

Ruins is still bright asf and still u not understand the whole concept. If you can't come up with something better than "go play ruins" then i don't understand what u do in a dicussion channel for suggestions to put into the game.

[hallow saffron]

yeah no... there are TONS of cheats for console games. Hell there are controller add ons that allow you to essentially edit CFG files the same as on pc.

[void remnant]

@hallow saffronits still not as easy to access as pc games also not as common

[hallow saffron]

its very easy. very common. your arguments are terrible and you need to have your right to vocalize taken away from you.

[hallow saffron]

Ruins needs to be brighter in the pitch black areas and the bright spots need to be darker 100%.

Crypts also should have darker rooms I agree because it really should not have lighting sconces every 5 steps.

[void remnant]

@hallow saffronthat is not true as someone who played console most his life ik its not true

[hallow saffron]

your one person experience. doesnt prove that youre right. plenty of stats online to prove you wrong. especially since even a cronus zen is easy to buy

[vernal hedge]

https://tenor.com/bTZo7.gif

[void remnant]

then explain the cheating epidemic on all pc games such as tarkov fallguys amongus ark

[dense marlin]

Where what has done what? The nonexistent AI Anticheat solved the problem? Thats because it doesnt exist yet.

[glacial moon]

I mean im not talking a map specific im just saying there is too much lights and i think it destroy the purpose of having torches or lantern in-game. Game should be other way around, all light should be turned off and thus u needed torches or lanterns way more than we currently do.

[void remnant]

even ironmace has stated its such an issue right now

[dense marlin]

Its just more expensive, its exactly as easy as on PC bro. U literally just pay more xD

I dont think there is ANYTHING on console that could be considered harder than on PC tbh. Its the main seelingpart of the whole Platform after all.

[austere sequoia]

But it's exactly the same on consol, you just need to pay, nowaday it's horrible how everyone can access to cheat easily

[void remnant]

and now i am be dabated how its not so bad vs console when it objectivly isnt as bad as console i never read a title being like microsoft is having issues on sea of theives with cheaters

[vernal hedge]

cheats has always been big, even before fallguys, amongus, ark and tarkov.
Did you never play csgo or competitive shooters? Rust? Dayz or other survival games? Games where real money trade is a large market like Runescape and world of warcraft?

[void remnant]

never ever and its objective true facts with any games on console its always pc

[glacial moon]

100%

[dense marlin]

I remember back in the day 3 out of 4 people that tried to cheat ruined their phuggin PC. i loved it. Now u just pay 3 dollars a month and get a phuggin file to unzip xD disgusting I wish their would be harder laws against that shit, that would help the most atm.

[void remnant]

i am saying PC HAS ALWAYS HAD THE ISSUE and console really hasnt compared to pc WHY A LOT MORE WORK!

a lot more hoops to jump through

[dense marlin]

Name 1 hoop i have to jump through i dont have to jump through on PC? Please. There is none, i pay 5 Dollars, i get shit delivered.

[vernal hedge]

tbf you gotta pay a bit more for a solid provider nowadays, at least in tarkov the one my friend has used for a while is like 20€ for 14 day key

[austere sequoia]

And you get the step by step to set it up

[void remnant]

@dense marlin sounds experienced in cheating

[dense marlin]

Thats because its console market and it always has been a more capitalistic shitshow than PC xD

[vernal hedge]

bruh, its not like cheating is overly complicated, and being something that ruins our games it should be something we all have some knowledge in

[void remnant]

Most of the discussion around cheating comes from online multiplayer games on PC, with 52% saying PC gamers are the biggest cheaters. After all, it's easier to upload an aimbot to your computer than to a gaming console. The built-in cheat codes of yesteryear have nearly disappeared at this point.

[dense marlin]

Ofc iam experienced in cheating, ive been growing up with 0 cheats up to the state it is now. Ive seen the shit develop activily throughout the years and played enough on both platforms xD Plus one of the reasons u dont see that many cheaters on Console is just the games they have been pushing on the market(Which werent that attractive for cheaters) and that in any shooter i know of where there is crossplatform these days u basically get a free aimbotassist with the game so u dont fell like gettin constantly beaten by pc gamers.

[void remnant]

still makes my point its easier to cheat on pc less hoops

[dense marlin]

It isnt. I pay X Dollars and i instantly have a cheattool.

[void remnant]

like FR MLG GAMES ARE PUTTING THAT ON THEIR MOUSE

[slow slate]

the biggest and easiest cheating i ever involved myself in was on console.

[void remnant]

@dense marlinsus def not a cheater

[dense marlin]

There is no hoop that is extra, its just a little different. U plug in something instead of opening an interface and install something. But thats because of the base design of the platform, its not HARDER xD And as i stated, the main thing while there is less cheaters on console is because there is less games who are attractive to cheaters on console.

If u play a egoshooter on console ur essentially already crippling urself for absolutly no reason xD

[hallow saffron]

I wonder if thats because... ironshield is proprietary and they are making it from the ground up. GASP

[vernal hedge]

cheating is all the same tough, you don't do anything special, it might be bigger in pc but that because it's a larger market and also has way more games in which there is a financial incentive to real money trade.
bet you never heard about chinese sweatshop grinding wow currency or Venezuelan gold farmers in runescape in console games(excluding diablo maybe)

[slow slate]

for some games plugging in a mouse and keyboard into the console is cheating. doesnt seem like to many loop holes there

[dense marlin]

Telling me its harder to cheat on console is just an utter joke, i grew up with every slight gameadjustment like gamma being made via ur registry which could make ur pc just stop working with a little mistake xD

[void remnant]

or they being on pc and and all are more exposed to blatant scripted as console has more encryptions to byspass

[slow slate]

the good old gta 5 online days.

[void remnant]

which is why as consoles evolved you see less and less like halo 2 did on the original xbox because that was legit the worse

[dense marlin]

It doesnt bro xD If u really think a console is more safe to cheating than PC i dont know what to tell you but A CONSOLE IS A PC XD

[void remnant]

@dense marlinoh way way more safe

[vivid warren]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/481886/stash-sort-up-button-qol🇺 Ⓜ️ 🇦 🇰 🇪 🇮 🇹 🇪 🇦 🇸 🇾

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/485873/add-game-replay-for-cheat-expose 🇫 🇴 🇷 🔨 🇨 🇭 🇪 🇦 🇹 🇪 🇷 🇸
**It's for you not for me **

[dense marlin]

There is 0 difference in the base of operation that u have to bypass, there is NOTHING keeping you from hacking the device in the same way u hack any PC. Literally 0.

[slow slate]

its not exactly hard to purchase a jailbroken console.

[dense marlin]

Bro ive been working in a software security company for 10 years xD trust me, there isnt.

[vernal hedge]

excuse me... we call those inferior things pre-builts, dont bunch them him with our glorious master race

[void remnant]

@dense marlinthat isnt true at all but w/e

[dense marlin]

I apologize for my wording, kind sir. I just try to explain as it doesnt seem to be understood by people.

[void remnant]

@dense marlingasp you know how to route stuff and make more routers to divert hackers so you must know

[dense marlin]

State me why it isnt true? Where is the layer of "encryption" that u claim is there that protects the device stronger than my regular PC running Win10/11/12 whatever ? :D

[vernal hedge]

understandable sir, have a good day tips fedora

[void remnant]

its a common statistic just google weather there are more cheaters on console or pc also i played console most in my life and never ever have i encountered more cheaters on console over pc

[hallow saffron]

how many years is that? 4?

[void remnant]

try 25 years and even still had a pc growing up as well so actually ive been on pc tech longer but always pref console so 33 years on pc

minus 4 on both because clearly i cant do either when im a new born

[dense marlin]

We told you the reason for that, and its in the Games that get played by the majority of the people that use the device. It has nothing to do with the technical part of cheating. Try reading the wikipediaarticle about protection rings, once u understood them u will realize its exactly the same hirachy layer on console making it exactly as hard to make a cheat for console as for pc as the technical part is essentially the same xD

[real trellis]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486522/remove-dead-stats-and-make-items-roll-as-many-stats-as-they-should-by-rarity If you are tired of seeing literally dead stats on your items, or if you're sick of picking up a green only to find it has no stat rolls, upvote this. Keep in mind that I am only suggesting that stats which have absolutely no use case be prevented - not trying to guarentee BIS rolls.

[void remnant]

@dense marlinThere is still objectivly more hoops to jump through getting cheats on console over pc for the average person for someone who claims of ur calibor maybe not

[vapid umbra]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/482354/goblin-playable-race

[void remnant]

but for the masses yes show me 10 cheats for the xbox you can buy and 10 for pc for the same game like ark

[dense marlin]

No, i swipe my credit card and it is done bro, thats how simple it is, really. Try it please u dont have to cheat just BUY A CHEAT AND INSTALL IT until it runs and tell me afterwards how incredibly hard it was for both platforms xD

[vernal hedge]

pc is the largest gaming patform by almost 2x that of consoles so of course there will be more cheaters

[void remnant]

just dm them to me because clearly you cant put them on here

[versed nebula]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486581/remove-bard Support my suggestion

[dense marlin]

Plus he doesnt understand that games like Runescape, Rust, Tarkov are WAY MORE ACCRACTIVE to cheaters. Or the maincheatergame COUNTERSTRIKE which is literally at this point a sweatshopmachine for money laundering in gamba

[plush orchid]

no

[void remnant]

all im saying is i never encounters a cheater on sea of thieves till it became cross play

also if you dont think microsoft locked their stuff down after halo 2 more so than before you are crazy

[dense marlin]

Well idk why anyone would cheat on sea of thieves, but have u considered that in general pc gamers are just WAY BETTER at egoshooters in every way possible? :C

[hallow saffron]

yeah sure. found one that supplies a monthly subscription for both console and pc versions of ark. full cheating hacks for both versions. including ESP, Aimbopt, Radar.

[void remnant]

ive heard of the average player trying to mod their 360 and it getting blocked@hallow saffron proof give me 10 of each

[dense marlin]

Where all these "Cheaters" that suddenly appeard confirmed cheaters? Or did they just had 20x better Aiming cause its still a egoshootergame? xD So u basically had 0 competition with console only before?

[pearl heath]

A console is way stricter with permissions on the os. Easy root access means easy manipulation.

[hallow saffron]

because modding/jailbreaking in general isnt allowed by the companies due to getting GAMES for free. even the old playstation 1 would brick if you jailbroke it wrong.

[dense marlin]

Bro, i cant tell you more than that i worked in a security company that was providing products for Windows. And i can 100% tell you there is nothing locked more or harder xD

[hallow saffron]

I remember burning discs for PS1 games, PS2 games, Xbox and Xbox360 games to run on my modded consoles. Then they started cracking down on it and it got harder

[dense marlin]

So yea, the work for the one doing the cheat initially might be slightly harder, but considering the knowledge he will require anyway its gonna be maybe like.. jumping 2cm higher than u did before on a not so high jump?

[fluid zenith]

the addition of a breakdown on currently "hidden stats" in the game would be really nice. ie. true phys/true mag, and other bonus that dont directly impact/change the value of your bonus but do apply considerable bonuses.

[dense marlin]

Thats like tryin to tell me this 55cm fence is safer than the 50cm fence and will keep of 67% more homeinvaders. Idk. All i know is that all cheaters ive ever talked to no matter the platform said: " I swiped my credit card, and then i cheated on the same day."

[vernal hedge]

and all the know-how you need after is not being retardd and obviusly cheat and keep attention to the detectable sign.
shits has plug and play as it comes

[dense marlin]

You sir, 100% have my vote :D

[pearl heath]

It's way easier to create software and bypasses on a well documented platform/OS like Windows. Windows api/kernel mode/user mode are well documented and have tons of research books on multiple reverse engineer topics and they document well how Windows works internally. Consoles lack that. So it's way easier to make PC cheat software cause it's less effort to find payloads.

[versed nebula]

❤️

[hallow saffron]

Microsoft consoles use a rudimentary version of w/e the current OS is at the time of development and playstation use the same one for years after first release. its easier to make console cheats, people just forget that theres less competetive console games that can make them money then on PC. not only that but its easier to have smaller less noticeable cheat son PC then on console

[plush orchid]

good suggestions bro

[glacial moon]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487628/a-skill-hitcheck-on-doors-please

[dense marlin]

I just know that all people in my old firm would disagree on the statement that u need more knowledge or even different knowledge.

As most of the time the reasoning for the different numbers lies mainly in the market, not in any form of problems in distribution or more being done agaisnt the corrupt and criminal institution that cheatproviders are.

Though i 100% understand that i u can make a cheat and feed ur child with it u will do it xD But then its better money if u do it for PC.

[plush orchid]

how does this conversation (that should be had in DMs) contribute to the suggestion-discussion?

[hallow saffron]

because we were discussion a suggestion around anticheat and specific stuff regarding a suggestion made earlier.

[vernal hedge]

Why so? It’s readily available information that is pertinent to the games issues with cheating

[dense marlin]

Read the pinned message and u will soon realize that this channel is really for suggestions anymore as noone in ironmace studio reads it for the purpose of distracting senseful information from its users.

[plush orchid]

By reading the name of the channel "suggestion-discussion" I can deduct that this channel is not for suggesting things.

[plush orchid]

All I see is people fighting over nonsense, flooding the chat with stuff that could be better had over in DMs

[dense marlin]

I cant, since its bad grammar to write it like that. It means its a channel for suggestions AND discussion for me, but since the pinned message is there it is OBVIOUSLY mainly for discussion.

If we would like to suggest something we would do it over the featureupvote page they got now. We are DISCUSSING the State of certain suggestions and if we would suggest them on our own.

[vernal hedge]

But that’s what this chat is for, discussion and entertainment of people at work that would rather be playing.
For suggestion they already have a suggestion bulletin in their website

[dense marlin]

We are totally in the right here brother. Otherwise a moderator woudve done something about it DAYS ago :)

[plush orchid]

If you've spent atleast a certain amount of time on discord it would be perfect grammar.

[dense marlin]

I didnt knew discord is now the main dominant factor that determines grammar in a language, iam sorry for my lack of modern norms xD

[plush orchid]

You cannot decipher the form of naming channels etc. on discord. Has very little to do with grammar in language as you put it

[vernal hedge]

damn millenials and their discord leading grammatical discussions

[dense marlin]

Call me crazy but if Ironmace actually gave a fuck about our suggestions they would implement an Ingame Voting System on Class/Game Relevant Topics into the Game where u just get a poll when u start the game with todays/weeks most important poll going on. But w/e.

[hallow saffron]

oh you mean like league of legends did then removed?

[mental stream]

ohhh my goddddd pipe down

[dense marlin]

If u want to extract the sense u claimed to see in the channels name than i think u have to. As everything else will just be wild interpretations varieing from discord to discord.

[vernal hedge]

yah the current suggestion board is dog shit, why can't I downvote suggestions

[plush orchid]

Would have compared to OSRS but eh

[dense marlin]

Still better than unheard suggestions xD

[bleak dagger]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/485667/remove-rogues-from-the-game

[vernal hedge]

runescape voting is the best, altough have they finally got around to hidding the pool results until after you voted? I remember that being something that persisted for years even tough the devs also werent fans of it

[dense marlin]

I mean would be cool if anyone at Ironmace actually would give a fuck but i daut it xD

[slow slate]

they unlocked classes so who knows

[dense marlin]

Its true, some things are happening, but a lot that dont seem to be more of half a day of work dont. And we dont know why cause it isnt explained to us.

[glacial moon]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487628/a-skill-hitcheck-on-doors-please

[slow slate]

if they explained everything it would take a while. if in idea is chosen its coz it fits with what the developers have in mind.

[glacial moon]

You wanted to be taken seriously and then come up with this trash suggestions. What a troll. Welcome to my list for blocked trolls.

[hallow saffron]

cause they are doing more then just hot fixes and patches like this. They are fully fleshing out warlock, working on druid, balance changes, item changes, reworking rogue, working on ironshield, looking at player suggestions, working on quests. they are doing A LOT

[dense marlin]

A very cheap and extremly poor excuse for someone who makes alot of money with his product. But people have been cutting slack for gaming companies for years and years now and ive stopped understanding why since we only get trolled over and over again as customers.

The only reason i cut ironmace that much slack is that damn lawsuit, but thats it.

[slow slate]

tbf id rather have an employee work on the game than spend x amount of hours a day replying to suggestions.

[dense marlin]

Are u an official employee of Ironmace?

[vernal hedge]

but that's what a community manager is for

[hallow saffron]

no, but IM is to our knowledge ten people and correlating the information they have given us in the announcements... id say what I posted is fairly accurate

[dense marlin]

If u dont want to deal with the suggestions ur gettin in dont make it free to suggest anything. Iam fine if a gaming company says We dont care about the opinion of gamers, we want to make a game in our vision fully and thats it. But thats not what they doing, they say they care, but iam atm not seeing it that much. I like to believe, but the past years of constant lies and betrayal of gaming companies just makes it harder.

[vernal hedge]

nah borhter, they are more than 20 people working on the game

[dense marlin]

I dont have a problem with honest people, but if u start lying to me for whatever reason ill do anything against you that i can :)

[vernal hedge]

was looking for the sauce, from their faq "There are currently around 25 developers working at IRONMACE. We are all excited to be working on Dark and Darker!"

[hallow saffron]

they care about suggestions though. duos map was added DUE to suggestions. noones lying to you. Ironmace is apparently HALF the 20 person team that was apart of p3.

[slow slate]

your assuming they dont look at them at all

[dense marlin]

Is true, I dont know that, and they seem to react to some suggestions that flood channels AND system. However the Suggestionsystem is a wildgrowth without any cleaning atm. As you can see suggestions in it upvoted to top5 that are already in the game. So i cant really tell which ones got really read and seen by the devs etc. Its just i have to believe the GOOD and HOPE that iam right with it. And i dont like that stage since idk, every companies main intrest today is pure cash.

[vernal hedge]

where is the info about half the team?
because the 25 devs is from I believe around p4 time

[glacial moon]

https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487628/a-skill-hitcheck-on-doors-please

[dense marlin]

I mean at the end i just like the basegame alot but i dont understand the current pace/choice making in the devprogress.

[hallow saffron]

were they 25 devs at p4? I literally googled "how many employees does ironmace have" and can only find that its half the p3 team

[dense marlin]

Well guys, it was a nice discussion. Iam gonna actually play the game now xD

[vernal hedge]

the 25 devs message is from april this year, p4 was february/march I think no?

[dense marlin]

Wish all that took part a wonderful day! Thanks for your thoughts!

[vernal hedge]

good luck in the Dungeon brother, may God be with you

[hallow saffron]

idk again I cant find anything on google and didnt check announcements for team members if its there.

[vernal hedge]

#❓faq a bit under the halfway point they mention it

[hallow saffron]

ah. i mean doesnt really change much with everything they have going on development wise. 25 is more then 10 sure but in the grand scheme of things with everything they are doing it isnt a major change

[lime parrot]

i think they should change the amount of time it takes to recover red health bar because that way i can go on vacation while i wait my barb to regen fukng 60 life in 10 years

[vernal hedge]

it's a built in pee break, or you can get swole by doing pushups everytime you rest your character

[lime parrot]

if i do pushups all the time my barbarian is sitting i wwould turn in to a monster, i like the feature but for barbs is alot of time i think i miss alot of the game because i m sitting all the time to save on bandages and meds

[lone crescent]

Vote to rework Rage into giving physical power https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/487642/rework-rage-to-give-flat-15-physical-power

[placid mirage]

I think they should make Will/Knowledge non capped. so it can scale good

[vernal hedge]

no but jokes asside I feel you, yesterday was pvping in a trio has a rogue for first time(generally just rat for currency for my cleric) but we were 3 dps characters, the ammount of sitting and campfires used where more than ive ever did in my cleric lol

[lone crescent]

New suggestion system is shit btw

[vernal hedge]

+1

[lime parrot]

+2

[plush orchid]

They are not capped. Will is softcapped around 40, but knowledge isnt

[hallow saffron]

Will scaling magic power is 1:1, magic powers scaling for magic power bonus goes from 3% per point to 2% per point once you hit 25, then 1% once you hit 40. .5% when you hit 50 will.

Knowledge has caps for specific stats it affects. casting speed has slowing investments every ten points dropping to 2% at 45. Magical Interaction speed slows to 5% at 25 knowledge then 2% at 35 points.
Spell memory/capacity does nothing till 6 then scales 1:1 till 100

[versed nebula]

Hi guys here my suggestion https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/486581/remove-bard

[sturdy light]

what is the counter to someone running you down, who is way faster than you?

[elfin vigil]

Hope this is a bait because this is the dumbest suggestion I’ve ever seen in my life.

From game design to Dnd accuracy standpoint this makes 0 sense thanks but no one will upvote that.

[sturdy light]

yeah, would just artificially lengthen match time and annoy most players

[hot hemlock]

"Yea dont worry guys I know a swarm of locusts and undead creatures are coming ill get the door, one sec failed skill check...ah shit it was at the beginning okay 3rd times the damn we all dead"

[elfin vigil]

The dude is either completely dumb with room temp IQ or trolling to be honest I don’t think room temp IQ is attainable.

[hot hemlock]

Bros mad he kept getting doored by a rogue running from his cleric wiz barb team comp

[merry kestrel]

Yeah that totally makes sense

[glacial moon]

You not a fan? But a fan of rushing. Because Dnd standpoint accuracy is rushing apparently n skipping weak monsters, standard chest's, n what not -> just to get to the best loot as fast as possible or kill a BOSS without any gear -> True dnd style i see ! That's you in dnd game? Run around naked doing bosses and what not? Who of us sound more dumb now?

To be honest i don't know what game i was playing when i played Dungeons and Dragons because i was not skipping weak monster and chest to rush a boss meanwhile naked or get the best loot ect. But whatever i was probally doing something wrong meanwhile u all was doing the boss in dnd naked.

[obtuse lichen]

lmao

[glacial moon]

The majority of players in dark and darker probally not even played DND once in their life - it's a old game.

[obtuse lichen]

what are you smoking

[hot hemlock]

So what part of dnd did you ever A) Do a door skillcheck, or B) do a skillcheck at all

[glacial moon]

Game is dark and darker and has aspect from dnd but it's still a game it's not DND

[obtuse lichen]

😎

[hot hemlock]

So then why are you comparing the loot pathing strat to dnd

[glacial moon]

Because someone thinks rushing though everything just to get the best loot is better than to try preventing it

[hot hemlock]

So the game that is already timed and alot of the time runs down to the last 15-30s, you want to SLOW down.

[obtuse lichen]

Mb because thats how you get better loot? or mb devs need to increase the numbers of the good rooms?

Also you have timer and to get the most value you have to speedrun

[hot hemlock]

The entire point of limited "good" rooms is to incentivize pvp for said loot

[obtuse lichen]

But some rooms are straight up dogshit and that's a fact

Like the room with 1 singular chest at the middle and like 8 archers
Like the room with 4 skeletons on the high ground and 8 small chests in inferno

[glacial moon]

DnD not has a circle closing in btw like a battle royal and thus we come to the point. It has aspect from dnd but not entirely and dark and darker is still a game of their own. Everyyone with an actually brain understand that rushing though rooms to get the best loot or boss is plain dumb

[obtuse lichen]

Some rooms needs to be reworked

[hot hemlock]

So then why do you keep asking for it to be changed because dnd didnt do that?

[glacial moon]

What do i want to be changed?

[obtuse lichen]

I dont understand what he is trying to say

[hot hemlock]

Here you can read your own suggestion

[glacial moon]

Ah thank you that took some time @hot hemlock What u not like about this? Why is this so bad? Im curious to see what your opinion are.

[obtuse lichen]

It's not going to help at all
It's going to be annoying and that's it

Also people are going to abuse it chasing somebody while doing skillcheck on every damn door will be horrible

[hot hemlock]

I have given you my reasons and you just keep responding with the same shit, just reread and youll see why its a bad idea lol

[glacial moon]

You close the door they have to skillcheck can't see the problem

[obtuse lichen]

Then no fights at all

[glacial moon]

Huh?

[obtuse lichen]

People can just run away from each other
You never close the doors behind you see an enemy go back close all the doors ez

[glacial moon]

I haven't seen your reasons. Sorry, can u just copy paste your resons and send them again so i can read them thank you

[glacial moon]

They have to fight eventually otherwise they die to a swarm

[obtuse lichen]

Ah yes late ring fight with no time to loot i like it

[glacial moon]

No time to loot? U been looting though the whole dungeon path u went though.

[obtuse lichen]

Yeah but players always have a better loot than just treasures

[glacial moon]

Not always.

[hot hemlock]

This has to be sarcasm at this point, pure stupidity lmao

[glacial moon]

U still need to make that response which u still have not given.

[obtuse lichen]

Im loosing my brain cells