suggestion-discussion

[glacial sphinx]

Think appraisal doesn't require a weight system with all its downsides/ pvp implications though. You can come up with other ways that make looting more involved in better ways. Rooms you can only access and loot briefly etc, where you quickly have to choose what to bring. Better crafting system, quest stuff etc.

[patent mauve]

Weight systems existed before Tarkov, and about being healthly for the gameplay loop, they changed the spawns and got rid of the triple escape portals to let newer players have a chance to explore and learn the game mechanics. Forcing groups to plan an exit strategy and prevented portal hogging.

Adding more scattered portals and spawns is healthy, the same way adding weight would add layers to the decisions players make.

[glacial sphinx]

How does the portal change having X effect translate to a weight system being good?

[patent mauve]

There's no downside to barreling down noobs in normal lobbies, which doesnt affect me, but affects the health of the player base. Having to make more decisions around how you loot adds depth, we haven't even got into the discussion of how much of a speed debuff we would get, and some of you are seriously taken back by even the idea of it.

[glacial sphinx]

Yeah so I don't agree that this is necessarily true. The portal change benefitted solos because finding 1 portal is easier than finding 3 scattered ones.

Whereas this probably is just as likely to punish solos as it is to help them. Imagine you're a solo/noob with some looted treasure and now you have a team of 3 hunting you. They stashed all the good stuff on their cleric and their two dps are 0 weight and twice as fast as your solo. Now you've done the exact opposite effect of what you set out to do.

[patent mauve]

Idk I'm pretty sure that would encourage going into inferno, how do you know that player is worth chasing while leaving your cleric vulnerable? Layers

Then the cleric is killed and all your loot is someone else's, but the rogue you killed had a green chalice 🥴

[blazing crypt]

It would make it harder to fill your pockets with consumables and throwables so taking reckless fights is more punishable. Youd focus more on getting trinkets and gold only taking a few pieces of gear to upgrade your own or trade. Itd be healthier than players having stashes over saturated with high tier loot and instead promote trade and player interaction.

[glacial sphinx]

Dnno you keep leaping to conclusions that aren't supported by what you're writing down. And then randomly saying stuff like "layers" doesn t make it more true either. Like the conclusion about inferno is completely unsupported, just as the idea that it would help noobs was.

[patent mauve]

The naked rogue life is the life for me, speed is already a factor, they want people going into inferno, making the choice between being stuffed with lower quality gear/ treasure for a speed debuff or diving down deeper is layers.

[abstract swallow]

Okay, so your point of contention is that a Weight system would be because it 'penalizes' looting, and that would be a negative that 'punishes' the looting player?

First of all, why would this be a negative? The game already has differences in movement, especially in relation to classes-- are these existing differences negatives too? Should players not be allowed to stow weapons or unequip armor to gain an advantage of speed when needed?

Second, if this is something that creates a penalty for looting, why does that mean the only options are not to become encumbered or not loot at all? Why is something as simple as picking up or putting down your bag not enough agency over movement and Weight management-- and if you agree that stowing items and changing gear for more speed is fine, why is dropping your bag to flee or prepare for a fight not?

Finally, why is normalizing speed and giving the player more agency over it less preferable to hard-limiting the scope of all movement in gear? Is building your character/kit to maximize the effectiveness of looting not an option in your mind? Why is looting for Weight efficiency not acceptable when looting for Space efficiency is? If agree that you can 'play around' this penalty, is it instead some purely psychological factor that is causing you distress over potential encumbrance?

ngl T*rkov's weight system is literally the worst I've ever seen (even before Intertia/stance slowdown)
randomly basing item weights on real-world counterparts and then slapping a mandatory skill grind on top of that is the most miserable inventory system I can imagine

[patent mauve]

I'd be going into more detail but I've got a toddler that has a morning routine xD

[glacial sphinx]

Punishing looting is a negative because looting and escaping with loot is the point of the game and what makes it fun. Selling a bunch of stuff to the merchant and collecting a fat check or having a nice item you can trade is what I find enjoyable.

As to stowing gear for movement, I'm okay with it, don't find it a particularly fun or engaging mechanic but its okay. Especially sheathing is fine cause it makes sense and not tedious in execution. Taking off your chest mid chase is a bit silly. Emptying your entire inventory is stupid and tedious.

As to the second: I think it'd be super annoying if you had to drop all your inventory to fight at optimum strength. It's just tedious having to do that and then pick it all up again after each fight. I don't think that's where I want the emphasis to be in a combat situation.

As to normalizing speed part: That again comes down to my distaste of having to mess around with my inventory mid engagement. Building your character for max loot effectiveness is an option but doesn't require a weight system that would require mid combat inventory management or incentivize not looting to be optimal in PVP/Combat in general. I think stuff like having barbs smash treasure, rogues able to lockpick, or having wizards be able to read runes that allow access to new loot areas or w/e is far more interesting than slowing me down in PVP because I found some cool shit to take with me.

[abstract swallow]

fund it
my Ranger will be the heroic Bear Grylls of the dungeons
saving maidens and hapless lads with his thirst-quenching prowess

[real trellis]

POWERTHIRST

[compact barn]

Stowing gear for movement is cheesy and will hopefully be changed. If you unequip something either add a significant debuff to movespeed or force the player to be still.

[real trellis]

IT'S GOT STRENGTH. IT'S GOT ENERGY. IT'S GOT STRENERGY

[patent mauve]

If the gear reduced the same speed for being stowed, very simple fix.

Marauders snack delivery service

[olive kettle]

I am heavy weapons guy, and this is my grill

cooking up some giant bat steaks

[abstract swallow]

Okay, so you have a preference against it because you enjoy looting being streamlined and rewarding. You aren't wrong for having this preference, but I can't say I think it lines up with the nature of the game as a self-described hardcore dungeoncrawler-- at its core the game is meant to be methodical and punishing.

I agree that having to manually empty your inventory would be a hassle, but we've both seen the equip slot for bags is still there. Would being able to unequip and stow or quickly set down your bag(s) as I described not solve this problem? It wouldn't even require the combat inventory management you dislike, just a hotkey that does the usual equip/unequip interaction like many other games have done.

And while I agree that a Weight system isn't required to reach any of these assumed design goals or address any particular flaws of the alphas we've played, the number of things it could address certainly is significant, isn't it? I too would like to see more nuanced and class-specific forms of interaction with the dungeon, but those things don't require a lack of a Weight system either.

[patent mauve]

The kill feed not being in HR adds layers to the decision making as the circle closes

[abstract swallow]

honestly the killfeed being in Low Roller just confuses new players and strokes the egos of pubstompers, make it spectator/replay only and make the timer visibly indicate portal spawns (which would also help new players learn the associated timings)

[patent mauve]

The extra equipment slots not having weight limits would be nice for storing some treasures and then choosing when to grab someone's kit in your main inventory.

A great nerf to DJ rogue would be not making all your jumps when you're chock full of loot xD

[glacial sphinx]

About the second paragraph, you'd at best be reducing a problem you have introduced by adding the weight system in the first place. So at best that's a net neutral, but in actuality it'd still be some added tedium of dropping a bag and picking it up after each fight.

The rest is clearly a difference in taste or idea of what the game should be. I haven't really seen any big issue it could address, and certainly nothing worth the cost.

But let me ask you something as well. Lets say you go through a dungeon as a fighter. You dodge every trap, kill some enemies in PVP and PVE and end up with a decent bit of treasure in your backpack but still at full hp. You go through the final door and there is fighter B, a guy whos been on the phone semi AFK the entire run and has the same gear as you and also max HP but 0 loot in his inventory. Why does this person deserve to have a meaningful combat advantage over me in the form of higher movement speed for doing nothing?

[abstract swallow]

I'm not opposed to there being more natural downtime after fights, but your point is taken--On the other hand a bag/equipslots system is technically independent from Weight's implementation, so this is less going out of my way to address a flaw and moreso a natural outcome of the two systems coexisting.

As for your example, I don't see anything wrong with it? For starters, whether or not his decision to have an empty inventory was made with intent doesn't matter.
If I've mitigated my Weight well then his advantage won't be significant in this mirror match. If I, out of greed or negligence, haven't managed my Weight well then I need to take the opportunity to do so when I realize there's a threat, because otherwise I'm overextending into a position of disadvantage. If I both don't manage my Weight correctly and let this other Fighter get the drop on me then I've misplayed twice-- and he deserves the advantage he gains by exploiting my mistakes.

Realistically, you could replace "loot in inventory" with "supplies spent" and come to the exact same result-- a player acting passively has a straightforward advantage, but hasn't taken actions that provide him with value.

[patent mauve]

That's an oddly specific scenario, apply that to the B fighter camping an escape portal and the same complaint is there. I've seen so many people commit to something like that only for both parties to lose their gear.

[glacial sphinx]

Yeah guess we just don't agree then. I don't think actively playing the game and looting stuff or having previous success in a pvp engagement should put you at a disadvantage for the next one, with all other things being equal. Don't see any point in it or how it makes the game better.

[abstract swallow]

I've thrown out a myriad of ways Weight could be used to flesh out and link together existing/potential systems, you just seem to value the streamlining of looting backed up with targetted fixes and restrictions of scope by a dedicated balance team instead.
Carrying Capacity would presumably give STR and RSC oriented classes an option to/natural mitigation of their equipment's Weight, especially casting focuses and heavy armor.
Carrying Capacity would act as a resource players could invest in, letting them more meaningfully choose armors and weapons of different weights as they budget against their own looting flexibility. Not only does this expand kit-building options, but these options can be leveraged for more personalized dungeon routing and adventuring styles.
Weight Penalties, especially if the rate of encumbrance scales to your CC, would normalize movement speed between classes as typically slower classes maintain similar speeds for longer, while faster classes have a natural buffer of excess mobility that can be more readily wagered.
Weight could also act as a natural filter to reduce the lootbloat of the game, encouraging players to not maximize the amount of value in their inventory at all times, while also offering the opportunity for items that are not slot-efficient (large treasures, 2h weapons, leg and chest armors) to have more 'effective value' by being weight-efficient.

[remote hamlet]

Stop the essays

[patent mauve]

If movement was the only factor people wouldn't wear heavy armor, it's a tradeoff of mobility for survivability vs physical damage dealers. Idk why this is understood and accepted but any variation of weight thresholds isn't.

Three rogue meta just waiting for the gear mule cleric to pop around the corner. 😈

That would be good to counter class meta teams, a wizard Bard rogue team just blowing up the slow fighters. Give now

The emote where you put your face in your hands, that's how I accept my fate as a cornered cleric :^)

[glacial sphinx]

I'm not too much of a fan of having class specific loot carry capacities, because there are already class specific ways to gather loot such as rogues having lockpicking and pickpocketing and barbarians having smash or rangers having the easiest PVE. Those kind of class specific ways to dungeon and loot are nice, while adding another layer of class specific carry capacity on top would just interfere with it.

[patent mauve]

Do you like the classic specific looting speeds and the fact that barbarian has to make noise to loot efficiently?

[glacial sphinx]

Yeah they're fine, they make sense for the classes and don't have annoying side effects on gameplay or incentivize the wrong things.

[patent mauve]

I played enough barbarian solo to know that smashing chests definitely put me at a disadvantage to people with their listening ears on.
Which I'm okay with

[abstract swallow]

Really? Slow interaction speeds aren't discouraging or penalize you for looting?

[glacial sphinx]

No because your interaction speed doesn't go down the more you loot

[summer drift]

Slow looting speed is more of a penalty to fun than anything

[patent mauve]

You still have to play inventory tetris though, which I'm pretty well organized and keep greys on the bottom right of my inventory.

[abstract swallow]

So an existing, unmanageable penalty that actively restricts on how fast and often you can loot is okay, but a passive penalty that can be worsened/managed isn't?

[compact barn]

Y’all must have the day off today lol

[patent mauve]

I'd be down with 10% of item weight transferring onto carrying capacity, the argument for clothes is they also limit your range of motion so it makes sense to slow you less than wearing them. @compact barn Spot on I had to for family duties xD

[abstract swallow]

I had a doctor's appointment and the doctor forgot to tell me he cancelled it

[glacial sphinx]

There is a vast difference between looting being more difficult because you have a slower interaction speed, low gear, bad player skill, no smash or any of the other things that make looting more difficult.. or being punished for looting by getting slower the more you loot.

The second punishes you for looting, the first are just normal obstacles to getting loot.

[patent mauve]

My buddies were not as fast as me at looting on the go, player skill plays a part but the current system is absolutely crushing for newer players and less so for veterans.

Newer players spend 10x the amount of time in a room that veterans do and that plays the same factor that your worry for a full inventory gives, advantage.

[abstract swallow]

So it's not about the fun of looting, it's not about the accessibility of looting, it's not about the outcome or effectiveness of looting, it's not even about the vulnerability during looting, it's just that having any sort of limitation or negative feedback on putting items in your inventory is upsetting to you?

[patent mauve]

I feel like there's more incentive to dive down deeper if an inventory of green/blue loot is now a lot less potentially fruitful than purples+ in terms of escaping.
What do you think your escape %s we're last playtest. For goblin caves mine was like 10-15% but crypts was easily 40%+

[glacial sphinx]

I gave you a ton of reasons against weight previously which all still apply and I don't feel like rehashing. The fun of looting would certainly be reduced if I couldn't do it without getting slower though. I wouldn't call it upsetting personally. I'd say it rewards the wrong playstyles, incentivizes clunky/tedious inventory management during pvp and adds nothing that can't be done without all the downsides of weight.

[glacial sphinx]

Its pretty class dependent, my rogue escape rate was very high and especially on ruins almost always got out. Was trying to do alot of solo inferno on wizard which was more mixed results I'd say. The loot is really worth it though at some point. I think if playtests go longer more people will go into inferno already

[patent mauve]

Yeah the drop rates are insane, my rogue and cleric were pretty successful solo, the rest mechanic on cleric was so good for ratting.

I still think we need a tower shield for fighter or cleric.

[abstract swallow]

I'm not sure you could make shields much bigger without it posing a significant balance problem/being crippling in the static -MS system

[scenic bobcat]

tarkov bag dropping in our future

[patent mauve]

I like the pavise but I think tower shield is possible and could be balanced.

[patent mauve]

The rogue that was invis in the room the whole time

[scenic bobcat]

fr, grab bag slink off into darkness while the gigachads are fighting

tarkov rats all over again

[patent mauve]

Our goals are beyond their understanding

[abstract swallow]

I savor the idea of knowing that someday soon I will be able to play a Fighter that intimidates someone into dropping their bag to get ready for a fight, only to press sprint, grab their shit, and run off into the zone quaffing healing.

[patent mauve]

Running someone's pockets by making them drop their bag and sifting through it. "Aight I left you some greys now scram" lmaooo

[abstract swallow]

Dropping a bag in the middle of a room, then waiting for some hapless idiot to walk in and start looking through it so you can dunk them from the rafters.

[patent mauve]

Layers

[rugged eagle]

Tower shield would be awesome I just want more shields in general tbh

[patent mauve]

Put a hellforge in the inferno map where you drop something in with either ore or that cool purple dark essence stuff we saw in last playtest, and it spits out one piece of the same gear one tier higher or rerolls the stats.

[rugged eagle]

I like the idea of more static parts of a map people would be fighting over you started seeing it before stairs were removed from F1 where these points of interests would naturally lead to interesting PVP as groups would be competing over control

[patent mauve]

Yeah I'm just trying to spitball ideas for POIs in inferno besides the treasure piles and bosses. Something like that on the maps would be interesting.

[tawny python]

+1

[patent mauve]

I want noise makers/smoke bombs for utility.

[vocal lodge]

they should make the order of the 9 thing in the game. like 3 parties of 3 enter a secret dungeon or like 9 demons or 9 gods

[patent mauve]

HR lobbies need more incentives, they were so dead last playtest

[rigid prawn]

Fun way weight systems can create unique gameplay would be a quest to find and extract with a dragon egg. Dragon egg weighs a metric ton and slows you down to a crawl, so decisions have to be made to either drop the egg to escape a scenario or go slowly through a dungeon playing escort for the one carrying it. Just something that could be implemented with the weight system that could be fun.

We already have a weight system as it is so if anything people are suggesting changes to the current system, not the addition of the system as a whole. Something needs to be done to prevent people from having multiple kits/ naked Meta though, weight is a good thing to play around with to adjust things.

[ripe haven]

weight would be fun for unique/circumstantial "key" items, yes but not for every day gear

[rigid prawn]

That’s already a thing in the game with -ms being on almost every piece of wearable gear. Streamlining the system so that it can be used as a balancing point beyond ms reduction would be healthy for the game

[abstract swallow]

personally, I think a big issue with main dungeon lobby health is the lack of incentives for undersized parties
even something as simple as some extra space and an EXP multiplier would help nudge people to run solos and duos in Crypts again, and though the stats are heavily skewed it seems like Goblin Caves are only growing to take up more and more of the game's population as IM struggles to get out the 3F dungeon-- and until GC is properly a 'floor 1.5 of 3' that is only going to get worse

[compact barn]

Definitely agree they need some incentive added to queueing for crypts as less than a 3 man

[ripe haven]

so wat, weight accumulates, MS is affected, so the new meta will be no pants, full plate chest, dark souls style?

[graceful frost]

Idk i feel like high roller already has incentive but I agree with the player thing. I was pretty much never in a party so I never played it. Also anytime I did the spawned completely screwed me

[abstract swallow]

wearing no gear instead of bad gear is already the 'naked meta'
it's just a nasty mix of Rarity scaling being REALLY bad and making low-end armors EVEN WORSE thanks to their nonlinear scaling, and the aforementioned weight system of equipped/drawn items applying static -MS penalties

[brittle jasper]

They just need to make it easier for ppl find others to group with so nobody go's into crypts as a solo/duo

[rigid prawn]

If that’s the best way to run the movement speed/AR for you I guess, but I think badgers earlier suggestion of having tiered weight thresholds similar to how New world did it would be best. Would single handedly remove naked meta since you would be the same speed with or without light gear, and allow set weight “roles” with light, medium, and heavy weight classes. Can mix and match gear to stay under heavy threshold by running Leather mixed with plate on a fighter as an example

[olive kettle]

Playing trios is tedious, duos better

[summer drift]

The main benefit us already a thing, it let's you hide better

[olive kettle]

More like it lets you not push every fight because the random is bloodthirsty

[tawny python]

For beginners yes if u go in ruins or hr with that good luck

[brittle jasper]

you NEVER needed to support his mindless push if he wants to get himself killed that ain't on you

[olive kettle]

Nah no man left behind

[ripe haven]

im not sure that math adds up. so you have to achieve a certain amount of weight, to result in MS reduction, tiered and totaled together?

thats just dark souls weight system

u have a certain endurance stat that determines the maximum weight value in dark souls, whereas in dad, that number is otherwise static, but the rest of the formula still plugs in, just like DS. you reach X weight = fast, Y weight, medium, Z weight, slow.

MS should be determined by the type of gear you wear. if you are wearing plate, you are slow. the only exception ofc is fighters perk, which makes alot of sense in its current form. IMO they shouldnt change that aspect, and there is a better way to do weight, in the form of an expanded inventory.

in a game called dont starve, there are two basic backpacks, the backpack, and the piggyback. the basic backpack has standard capacity with no restrictions, and the piggyback is much larger, but comes at -30% MS reduction.

so if weight should do anything, it should only be incorporated by how much inventory space you have, rather than the gear you have equipped. equipped gear MS reductions should remain restricted by its type, as it is now.

[rigid prawn]

The current ms system can be considered a placeholder, so when we are looking at a new system we can consider the flat number ms reduction that gear currently has as removed. Like you said, the system would be similar to souls in the way they handle rolling, where there are certain thresholds that transfer you from a light roll to a medium roll and then of course the horrible thing that is fat rolling. The problem with the current ms systems in place is naked meta, where taking your starter gear off is the best option overall hands down. Don’t know about you but I would rather fight people wearing clothes.

Souls wasn’t the first game to incorporate this system and has not been the last, because it works. You shouldn’t lose ms for wearing cloth armor, you can run naked just as well as with clothes on.

Also backpacks should give you weigh reduction, not weight penalties. Storing stuff in a back pack makes the items easier to carry, not harder. Wouldn’t mind seeing inventory slot adjustments for backpacks as well but a backpack the reduces ms better give you one hell of a storage bonus.

[spice zephyr]

ok, now tell me how I get less inventory space but food spoils longer in that backpack

[brittle jasper]

warly gaming

[ripe haven]

yea like i think u said, make all light gear = naked weight. however, more inventory space should come at a cost, so i will disagree about back pack penalties.

more stuff = more risks

cannot have people exponentially scoring greater and greater loot without an inherent risk (other than the fact that you spend more time adding more loot, thats not enough IMO)

[brittle jasper]

I think the weak wimpy classes like wizard and rouge should be unable to carry anything and only strong classes like barb should be able to loot

[compact barn]

Lol no loot for you puny rouges

[abstract swallow]

Given what we have to go on with UI elements/our understanding of how stats will work, I theorize the inventory mechanics will work like this:

Equip Slots is introduced, which is the number of (bags/weapon loadouts/quickslot containers) slots available to you that is scaled by specific Resourcefulness breakpoints. 

Items in your inventory have Weight, which adds up to a Total Weight that is compared against your Carrying Capacity.
Drawn weapons, worn armor, and stocked quickslot items apply their full Weight, but items in your bags are held at a reduced weight-- this may be dependent on the specific type of bag and its quality. For example, a Rogue or Wizard may have a very Weight-efficient but smaller sized starting bag to accommodate their low Strength and average Resourcefulness, while a Ranger may start with an additional quickslot satchel and a Quiver for Ammunition.
Notably, items like Coins and Treasure Objects are very weight-efficient (especially as they increase in size) or completely weightless.

The 3-Segment Weight Bar in the inventory UI may work something like this:
When Total Weight is below 100% of your Carrying Capacity, you operate as normal. A full, non-plate kit will be somewhere within this range for all classes.
When Total Weight is at 100~200% of your Carrying Capacity, you begin to suffer a scaling -Movement Speed modifier, starting at -15 MS(100% CC) and scaling up to -80 MS(200% CC). (Example effects extrapolated from current MS penalty ranges)
When Total Weight exceeds 200% of your Carrying Capacity, you enter 'red weight', where these penalties continue to scale and/or new penalties would be added. You are not intended to play normally in this range of Total Weight, and it would presumably be very difficult to achieve this amount of Weight with non-heavy equipment and your starting bag.```

[spice zephyr]

Whatever they introduce, people will pick up pavise ever rarer since it's both huge and probably can't be stored alongside other heavy items easily

[brittle jasper]

I hope its not just a pointless system to nerf heavy armour for no good reason

[spice zephyr]

If we're going by the strict dnd rules, about 40kg would be what is considered the max medium load weight for a character of 12 strength(basically average of low level character). Then using awful estimstes of 25kg for armour, 1kg for most weapons(althought this a big overestimate) and about 1kg for accesoried to be generous. Leaves us with about 13kg of carry capacity leftover. For the lack of a better measurment unit, I will use a stack of 10 gold coins. I will use the measurements of an euro coin as an example but replace the material woth gold, as such receiving about 8,075gram per coin. A stack of these would then be 80gram, divide 1300 by 8, you get 162,5 stacks of gold in weight, as compared to the curent 50, this is to give a rough estimate, as probably picking up another chestpiece and some other item could probably go above the limit

So it would probably be fine

[rigid prawn]

Interesting, I can get behind that, especially resourcefulness scaling carry weight. Fighter has a high resourcefulness base so naturally he will be able to wear heavy gear while feeling less of an impact, as it should be for balance reasons. Running the three thresholds to be more focused on staying below the first line is an interesting way to approach it but they would have to remove ms penalties off lighter gear like cloth pants to compensate for naked meta with this system, as it solves nothing in that department as far as I see. Leagues better than the placeholder system though.

@ripe haven we will have to meet in the middle then! Multiple bags, some that expand inventory size at the cost of ms reduction and others that expand carry weight that gives 0 ms penalty! Best of both worlds!

[ripe haven]

small extra 2x8 bag, no penalty

big bag that doubles inventory space, penalty

[rigid prawn]

I can work with that!

[warm garden]

Id like to see more variety of cleric weapons. Like a flail or something.

Or allow them use of another weapon type like how Wizards can use Daggers etc.

[ripe haven]

maybe a cross bow or a short sword, but they shouldnt really be handling things like that nor get any bonuses from them

[compact barn]

I do wanna see a flail for crusader

[abstract swallow]

A sling would be a nice addition, as would a flail and a proper fantasy warhammer.

[compact barn]

But I also wanna see a saber type sword added too lol

[abstract swallow]

I think we'll see curved swords when it's Ranger's turn to get some love, there's no way we won't see some good ol' fashioned Drizzt dual scimmies

it'll probably come with whatever his Warden spec is in Class Trainer

[rigid prawn]

Still think longsword should be available to ranger, let me be freaking Aragorn ffs

[compact barn]

Too late I’m already Aragorn

[rigid prawn]

[summer drift]

2️⃣5️⃣

[patent mauve]

I hope they include missions in EA, like finding a certain number of gems or killing like 5 mummies type deal, something to earn in the dungeon besides escaping with loot.

[summer drift]

Just for the love of god don't make them annoying af like the ones on Hunt. Balance the time it takes to complete them and don't make them rely on killing people in pvp.

On Hunt you get some missions that are literally impossible without massive luck, like killing people with traps (most traps don't even deal enough damage to kill a player and they're completely avoidable)

[woeful elm]

I like it, good way to progress other than looting.

[summer drift]

And the missions that are "kill player with shitty weapon" are the worst, takes the fun out of the game and you lose money if you die from playing worse to it (don't add any quest like that if you do)

[soft finch]

Sounds like a skill issue of the hunter

[summer drift]

It's not fun to use weapons you don't like, especially to kill other players with. I'm terrible at the game, but I usually care more about fun than skill

But you should never rely on skills for people to complete a mission faster (or to complete it at all, statistics show that 40% of players have never killed someone in pvp in Hunt), otherwise you're punishing bad players for being bad and not encouraging them to keep playing

[abstract swallow]

As long as they aren't super obnoxious "dailies" or, god forbid, absurd pacing-killing T*rkov style quests that gate loads of progression behind obscure cheese and timewasters, I'll be happy to have objectives that aren't "just kill everyone in the dungeon and escape with 9 purple gloves/helmets"

[summer drift]

I think finding x gems or specific loot is a pretty good start. Gives you plenty of chances to make a mission completable without being too short nor too long. And it fits the theme of quests in fantasy where people pay you to run errands.

"I'll pay extra for whoever can find me 5 diamonds quickly."

Or "kill 10 goblins and bring me their ears, I hate those buggers"

[abstract swallow]

On the topic of goblin ears, I do wish enemies dropped 'trophy' items you could pawn for cash, especially minibosses.
Going through a dozen Champions and only coming out with a single purple Falchion is depressing.

[summer drift]

Quests would be a good way to include player-specific loot items in corpses, such as tendons or finger bones for skeletons, crowns or sigils in bones for red/black skeletons, 1x1 stackable ears for goblins and things like that

Only if you have the quest active you can see those items for example

[scenic bobcat]

oh u got me wrong then, i was just going along with the meme. i detest rats, in my 10k hours of tarkov i would go out of my way to bully them

[patent mauve]

Our goals are beyond their understanding

[inland path]

they should get a poison arrow that does 2dmg per sec that only last for 6 seconds just for a tiny buff you know what i mean?

[loud remnant]

I'm hoping for something like a quest board that you get to choose which ones you wanna do, and if the one where you just kill 3 people with base gear is there, just go on a run without stuff equipped it's not a big deal. I do want more things to do in the game

[feral rock]

I don't want a daily quest type of format. But I kinda assume they will go for some kind of same format as Escape from Tarkov maybe

[olive kettle]

daily quest: kill 20 bards

[feral rock]

As long as we don't get quest like: Kill a player while they are invisible

[wary junco]

''Kill a player while he is under the effect of an damage over time effect.''

''Kill a player from a 20 meter distance.''

[granite plinth]

"Kill a player that's holding a potion of healing (green) and walking backwards with legendary pants by redirecting skeleton's swing towards them hitting their hand"

^Add this^

[wary junco]

''Kill a player that holds a rare lantern or higher in his inventory.''

Ultimate suggestion:

Add a Unique Lantern

Name: ''Bright as thousand sun's''

Give the lantern an active ability to blind anyone that looks into your direction

FLASHBANGMODE

[tardy wave]

"Design a mummy boss/miniboss that can use locust swarm or drains your life like in the movie The Mummy"
Life drain:
https://youtu.be/rxZc0tyTqEg?start=94&end=105

[olive kettle]

ghost king has life drain

[tardy wave]

couldnt advance that for in the game as solo sorry about that. But still a boss/miniboss that can use a locust swarm should be a thing and mummy fits well to this

[graceful frost]

Thoughts on this unique weapon? Not sure what weapon it would be but when it hits someone, the next 3 hits on them done by you or your team will do 10 extra damage. And if you get like 2 hits in a row it would stack. So the next hits could do 20 more damage

[tardy wave]

so it is like you got tagged by this weapon and then next hit +10 second next is +20 and 3rd is +30 in total +60 dmg after the tag ?

[graceful frost]

Yeah something like that

If your poking it would be worse than something with just +10 extra but if your hitting multiple times or your team is, makes it strong. Could be on a bow which would be interesting

[wary junco]

way to broken, would never get introduced but if any unique would be that probably a dagger

[olive kettle]

that's less broken than pulverizing prayer

[wary junco]

adding flat dmg to a target? no way more broken

[random tapir]

I SUGGEST NOT SHOWING ME A COFFEE AD NOTIF"S ARE OFF

[olive kettle]

GRIND THE BEANS

[graceful frost]

Not rlly. Many weapons have strait plus 10 if they are unique. It’s only good if you get multiple hits in a row

[wary junco]

yeah but isnt that weapon suppose to do specificly that?

[graceful frost]

I mean named uniques are supposed to be good. Also what weapon supposed to do specifically that?

[tropic dirge]

期待半天结果是个联动产品 唉

[dusky field]

Ye I agree brother

[ebon valve]

I hope for a DarkDarker mimic backpack next!

[graceful frost]

drippy

[inland geyser]

Since the survival bow has a low play rate, and with arrows added to the game, it has made the worst bow even worse as it requires you to bring more arrows from the quick fire rate and low damage. Giving the survival bows a % chance to not consume arrows on rarity, or giving all of them a flat bonus may help?

[patent mauve]

The survival bow has good synergy with prebuff comps like wizard+cleric. That flaming, divine strike, survival bow spam xD. Ignite makes magic damage rolls on ranger gear not too bad as well.

[tacit dew]

I don't think the Survival Bow shot much faster than the recurve though. Anyway, it seems like we can't "officially" submit suggestions anymore?

[tacit dew]

I guess I've just been thinking about 2 things. One, that I liked how clerics can rest for skills. My playstyle doesn't usually lean towards "wasting time," but it did Feel right. I guess it's kind of thematic? Anyway, TWO, I am** not crazy** about the idea of exits or entrances being timed versus something else. To me, it would be Feel better if the gates open when, say, a group of fairly difficult monsters in front of it is killed. I especially like that this for the Goblin caves, as it adds more variety to the current way people play it. I think it would be an interesting/ always-different interaction between players by that gate. And as I type this, I think I would prefer it that way for the D1 to D2 gates as well. But that's just me. Thanks for reading, lol.

[lone crescent]

Now they should add coffee to the game and 🤌🏻🤌🏻🤌🏻 emote

[patent mauve]

Change Skeleton blood splatter to coffee beans

[lone crescent]

It seems like the game got update on Steam according to SteamDB, it says last update may 17

[patent mauve]

Introduce the coffee variant in game, make it boost agility while making your screen shake like crazy. Give Bard the only caffeine resistance perk.

[summer drift]

2️⃣5️⃣

[potent pumice]

Coffee : drink that gives x movespeed for 10 sec but you have a very loud heartbeat noise during the whole duration, then a slowdown for 5 sec like the fighter adrenaline rush does

[graceful frost]

interesting idea, could be broken though

[bronze barn]

Are there any plans to add slings? They're historically effective weapons, and you could even have variants in terms of effective ranges , like the ones used by mercenaries of the Balearic islands hired as mercenaries by the Carthiginians

They would also be able to add 1 handed ranged weapon variety instead of just the hand crossbow

[restive drum]

like sling shots? like from the simpsons? like the "weapon" bart simpson uses

[woeful elm]

sort of, but the slings Stomo is talking about is one where there is a pouch connected by two pieces of string, you place a stone in the pouch and swing the sling around, and when you want to fire, you release one end of the string. releasing the stone at the target.

[patent mauve]

The more advanced form of "have rock"

[woeful elm]

I think throwable mallets similar to chivalry 2 would be cool. It sticks with the clerics "no sharp weapon" loadout.

[lapis nimbus]

i suggest they release the game!

[restive drum]

brother described a sling shot

[woeful elm]

Just look up ‘balearic slingers’ and you’ll see the weapon.

[patent mauve]

David and Goliath sling

[formal dagger]

I think it would be nice if there was something like a lobby tavern in game, where you could sit with randoms, drink ale, make fun. Although we have a Gathering hall (or how you spell it) , but consider it just a chat for Lfg and nothing more.

[grave torrent]

start a go fund me so u can have unlimited funds

[bold gazelle]

how cool it would be if the hub was in the likeness of fasmaphobia. Where you can walk and the interface is inscribed in the hub objects, where you can practice on dummy*, because the waiting in the lobby is very fast

[grizzled folio]

I agree with you

[glacial walrus]

Pleaseeeeeee make it so!

[rigid prawn]

Slings would be the most annoying thing to use in crypts lol. Start swinging it and take 1 step to right, smacks off the wall. Also I would would be smacking my team with the swing constantly lol

[signal rain]

Lol this guy. Go read a history book

[lone crescent]

I personally don't like the idea cause it makes your pc run the game in menus, this could be particurarly bad for people with low end hardware

Also clicking stuff is faster the moving around

[loud comet]

Add rats Enemies they give you poison if you get hit twice by them

[lone crescent]

You mean rogues?

[fierce relic]

lol

[wary junco]

aha MODS

[abstract swallow]

thanks

[smoky yoke]

@reef spindle please refer to rule 10

[reef spindle]

it is from dark and darker reddit and in comments we can read this:
"Ryan6DaysAWeek is a friend of mine, and I can confirm he checked with Graysun before publishing this video"

and it was screenshot from a video posted which was posted on reddit

[smoky yoke]

this is not reddit
sharing any information datamined from the game is prohibited

[rugged eagle]

ye he was fine to post to youtube but its still against the rules to talk about it here

[wary junco]

sharing in generel forbiden? or just on this discord?

Cause that person does share stuff about it

[smoky yoke]

this discord

[wary junco]

I see okay, how do you in generel behave in context of stuff leaked somewhere else?

[patent mauve]

How would you?

[rugged eagle]

Not much they can do if someone drops leaks somewhere else the leaker didn't even have to ask graysun for permission he did it out of sincerity

[wary junco]

i dont iam just saying that others are doing it on other platform

[patent mauve]

How would you behave in general if that happened?

[wary junco]

Oh i see, i missed the part where he actualy asked for permission

[wary junco]

Iam not a company so i dont know how you would act, personaly i would admire the dedication but ask him to stop politely

i do think though, that a lot of things that were leaked do look very nice. Besides maybe the weightsystem, so iam happy that ironmace develops into a good direction. Nearly everything in this video i was like ''Hell yeah Ironmace... people will love that! Nice devs keep it going.''

[rugged eagle]

Ye I am honestly impressed they have that much stuff done these devs work crazy fast

[wary junco]

I honestly believe that in this case Leakers in this context is just very good PR for Ironmace. You only need to fear miners if you are producing something that might be controversial. Which in this case is just not existing at all.... iam exited to see Patrick the Crow

You could even consider building in small eastereggs in the code for the miners to praise them with a little resepct

[lone crescent]

Well datam1ne is a different thing then leaking

Behind leaks there are people who earn a lot of money and there are people who actually sells information to them, it's almost impossible to leak something in a team like IM, it happens only in huge companies with huge teams

[wary junco]

fair, i meant datam1ners

[smoky yoke]

there is a reason why certain words are blocked so please do not bypass those
let's change topic, thank you!

[patent mauve]

I think we should have the option to charge a soul stone at the altar of resurrection instead of summoning them on the spot, that way we could bring the stone back to the body and spawn it there.

[rugged eagle]

Not a bad idea but I think part of the charm is ressing your friend and being his bodyguard while you work your way back to his body

[fiery lance]

Suggestion: Allow Bards to toggle if their songs effect non group members will add a huge social dynamic to the Bard all other class skills/abilities effect bot hgroup and non group

[compact barn]

I think I should be allowed to consume my friends soul stone if I need hp or he's being a whiny baby

[patent mauve]

Agreed, it's just funny when you res your friend and his body is in the next room like, "Am I a joke to you?"

[patent mauve]

Like proximity chat but for sultry melodies.

[lone crescent]

What about a skill/talent to carry bodies then?

[wary junco]

just be a warlock and be able to eat corpses to get buffs

[lone crescent]

He can play quiter when he plays for himself

[wind heron]

Suggestion: New Labyrinth type map with no escape portals where teams have to race to the end of the map to find a path out. Once an escape path is taken it closes behind the team who took it. The players who took the escape routes do not leave the map however they are instead taken down to the second stage of the map where they are met with a large colosseum type arena where all the remaining teams have to fight waves of PvE enemies (ideally the enemies here are strong enough to force teams to work together or risk not being able to win). Once the last wave is completed the zone starts closing in and blue portals start to spawn. From here the player can either decide to escape with what they have or attempt to go after another team. This map would probably have very good items and would require some sort of key to get into.

[lone crescent]

So basically a pve mode unless you manage to escape first

[wind heron]

no you would fight players the whole time... for the first stage of the map you would want to eliminate as many players as you can to ensure your team gets a way out and for the second part you would just have to think more about who you want to take a fight with and then after the last wave of enemies I assume it would just turn into a bloodbath

[river reef]

their would be too much loot tbh if its high-roller like

[stray acorn]

Oh god not pre-orders 😫😫

[restive drum]

Bro a super villian he wants snapped keyboards and punched monitors

[rigid prawn]

i can see cheeky rogues jumping on teams in the arena when they get the chance lol

the blood bath at the end would be glorius

[sterile citrus]

Suggestion: Give knowledge an additional feature, that actually makes it have even a minor use to classes that don't use spells. I don't mind what this feature is, but I have a suggestion which should have very little impact, and not massively empower the two classes that like stacking knowledge.
Knowledge gives a cooldown reduction on Q and E skills. Maybe like a minor +1% reduction above 15 knowledge and -1% below 15 knowledge. Wizard stacking knowledge would only get a faster meditation cooldown. The one problem I can see for this is the buff it gives to cleric judgement, but honestly I think that spell needs a nerf as is, and the around -15% cd reduction isn't really gonna have a lot of impact.

[ashen spire]

Suggestion: add unique spell tome called “the book of ” to pay tribute to the cult of

[bold gazelle]

but even if with the help of clicks you buy faster, etc., this does not negate the fact that in the lobby when you start the game it is impossible to properly train on dummy.
if they were not in the lobby but in the hub, it would be much more convenient to train

it would be cool to make an optional exit to some interactive space with dummy and not only where you can practice with the team

[graceful frost]

they could prolly have a feature to turn it off if they are worried about pc load in menus

[grizzled folio]

+++, also as an option

[ebon valve]

Having the first floor only have red portals or pathways is interesting! And having the last floor having a ending center could give a climax! But Iam not sure about adding spawning pve! I would rather see a hard hallway with a guaranteed escape at the end!

[prisma dock]

Add hot milfs

[lone crescent]

@bold gazelle they can just make a training range and keep the menu like it is

[bold gazelle]

yep, it sounds good

[grizzled folio]

why make a separate polygon if you can make an interactive menu in which it will already be by default. The good thing about this idea is that the player is busy while searching instead of just sitting in the game's inventory and waiting.

[lone crescent]

What about going in range while matchmaking? There are easier, less heavy and better alternatives

[grizzled folio]

what mean in range?

[lone crescent]

Practice range

[grizzled folio]

well, at least because the players are quickly located and you don’t have time to practice

[lone crescent]

If matchmaking is quick why you even care about having something to do while waiting?

[grizzled folio]

you misunderstood me, I meant waiting while searching for a lobby, not waiting in the lobby itself

[obtuse lichen]

[olive kettle]

amongus potion at 3 am

[lone crescent]

Yes you press play then load into training range while waiting for the lobby

An interactive menu is slow and heavy, it really doesn't make much sense

Like Rocket League for example, you queue then hop into training while waiting

[grizzled folio]

what's hard about it? i.e. you want to say in phasmophobia a heavy menu?

[lone crescent]

I mean i don't understand the reason behind it, it's just a slower menu

[grizzled folio]

and already suggested an alternative

[lone crescent]

They just need to add a "training" in main menu and that's it, but they already said it's a low priority

[grizzled folio]

👌

[static sundial]

add dragon

[midnight grove]

Spider boss in the Inferno/Bastard Sword

[sharp coral]

how do u make a suggestion

[potent pumice]

You can't at the moment
There was a "make-suggestion" tab but it looks like it's in maintenance for now

[lucid root]

down until they find someone who feels like fixing it for free 😎

[brittle jasper]

was it broken? I thought they just removed it because they diden't want any more suggestions

[graceful frost]

It’s not in for maintenance they just closed it

[agile inlet]

Suggestions

• A visual differentiation for utility items such as potions, campfires and lanterns.
• Parkour to some locations in a map as a shortcut.
• stun parry to quarterstaff blocks.
• Magical traps

[lucid root]

suggestion bot glitching, repeatedly ramming itself into a corner somewhere

[kindred osprey]

uhh... Oggi is there somthing we need to talk about?

[tender mason]

Hey guys, here is a possibly interesting idea:

That between the levels of ruins-crypt, and crypt-hell, the waiting room always lasts 2m or 2:30m without variations, even if there are no more survivors, in order to be able to have a "rest time" between one level and another to be able to heal, rearrange your stuff, but also and mainly for the possibility that there is some sort of merchant, which can be either a goblin or a mysterious traveler NPC in rags that you can only trade in there, with whom you can exchange certain items, or buy things like consumables (potions, bandages, campfires, arrows, etc...)
In order to have some better preparation between levels, and stopping u from taking 30 pots before a game.

-Something additional related to this that could be also interesting, is that you can have some kind of service where the trader offers you some small space (maybe a 2x2, or 4 slots) to be able to send certain things from there to your stash, that charges you for the service so you can send important things that you would rather not lose, but still want to go deeper into the dungeon, so you can send things like rings, or even relics. It would be an interesting idea if carried out well (and balanced properly).

Anyway, the interesting thing would be to have that kind of trade in-game.

[north inlet]

No. Suggestion: don't listen to anyone trying to make the game easier.

[real trellis]

I like the idea of having a rare trader in the mid-point room, maybe they could buy your collectables so you could actually afford to buy what they're selling. But no healing items. And definitely no sending things to your stash from there.

Maybe they could be a goblin merchant type of deal where they sell random gear but unlike the goblin merchant it's always green or better

[rugged eagle]

I like the idea of a trader between floors like the collector who lets you turn your treasure into gold so you have more room in your inventory or a goblin merchant of sorts but you should never be able to send items to your stash that's the point of taking a blue portal over a red one

[heady marlin]

Suggestions

• Tiers of Backpacks, equippable on a player's inventory that allow carrying more in a dungeon. similar to cloaks

• Insured Weapon that allows a player to Insure 1 Weapon/item before going into a dungeon which makes it unlootable when killed and will go back to stash with a 24h cooldown.

[heady marlin]

thoughts?

[obtuse lichen]

they are already working on extra pouches and insured weapon is kinda pepepopo

[gaunt cargo]

Your first suggestion is likely already planned, based in data mining.
Your second suggestion has me considering that block button.

[obtuse lichen]

Imagine insuring ultra rare god tier stats legendary item every damn raid

Whats the point of gear then

[heady marlin]

exactly why because you could've spent 3 days getting that item it would suck if you lost it in one run

[obtuse lichen]

You need to manage your resources but making unlootable items is just breaking the game balance
its your fault if you lost it because you're died

People should get items back only if they are died to a cheater or server went offline

[signal rain]

I’m against insurance. If I kill you I want ur stuff

[obtuse lichen]

If you are scared of loosing items just don't play games with the loot system

[signal rain]

For real imagine a naked with cinder going game to game not caring cause cinder is insured

[obtuse lichen]

No one gives a shit if it took you 3 days to farm this item

Loosing items is the part of the game

[heady marlin]

let me make it clearer you get to insure ( 1 item ) not your whole inventory if I'm rocking an insured weapon say a legendary or unique and when having that I'll will also have similar tier armor the point is on death you get the whole loot except the one I chose to insure

[gaunt cargo]

No.

[real trellis]

No.

[heady marlin]

https://tenor.com/view/shrug-gif-25269231

[obtuse lichen]

no

[heady marlin]

okay 🏳️

[obtuse lichen]

Just get over it or beg devs for pve mode only 4 you

[real trellis]

If you insure a unique weapon then the person who killed you despite you having that weapon is cheated out of it. Farming a boss is relatively easy compared to going against a threestack with 1-2 people in it that have unique weapons. If they kill you they deserve it.

[signal rain]

Yea big no. Making item unlootabke is trash idea and opinion. Making it so if no one pics it up it comes back to you like Tarkov maybe but even then Wil just incentivize ppl hiding friends gear. So I’m against it but it’s better then unlootabke

[obtuse lichen]

It just kills the point of thinking in pvp if you can insure your items

[real trellis]

And like Leagion said, if I got a unique weapon and there was an insurance system I would run naked with the unique and insure it every time because who tf is gonna stop me?

[signal rain]

Exactly

[obtuse lichen]

Instead of judging your abilities people are going to rock unique gear for no reason and forcing fights because they know that they cant lose their unique weapon

[heady marlin]

24h cooldown would stop you from spamming it

[signal rain]

So I just buy like 10 cinders

[obtuse lichen]

Yep

[real trellis]

So then you put the unique back in your vault and hoard it till tomorrow? Because you're not taking that thing out without insuring it. Nah.

[signal rain]

Your idea is just to easily exploitable. And the concept ruins the pvp experience

[real trellis]

The game is about risk. An insurance system would mean nobody would ever lose their unique weapon no matter if there's a cooldown or a high price. There's no risk in that.

[heady marlin]

you're treating cinders like they are gray tier price they're worth 1k or more I think so how many runs would it take you to actually buy it?

[obtuse lichen]

10k gold per insurance and im down to look at these naked madmans who waste their gold and die

[signal rain]

I do wish there was some kinda tracker that kept a list of really good items that got left in the zone

[signal rain]

Your treating this game like it will only be out for a week. Once ea is out and you can play every day. By month 1 money is not a issue anymore.

[obtuse lichen]

Cinder costs like 4k gold and its really rare and hard to buy

[real trellis]

Well, rarity rates will be lower in the full release. But yeah.

[obtuse lichen]

Want to play with it buy it

[signal rain]

Once you got a month of ppl farming bosses your gonna see more uniques running around. @real trellis true. I think even then people@know how to farm boss and are going to do it. So I still think they will become more accessible

[obtuse lichen]

bosses aren't that hard to kill once you know their pattern

[real trellis]

The only way I'd ever be ok with an insurance system is if unique rarity items were unable to be insured and purple rarity items cost 300+ to insure, limit 1/day.

AND you insuring it doesn't prevent someone from looting it. Though that might open up problems with item duping.

[obtuse lichen]

Just make like in the cycle you die if item didn't get grabbed you get it back but if it got stolen by an enemy or your teammate touched it once you dont get it back

Basically if enemy extracts with it you dont get it back
but if your teammate touches item once insurance voids to prevent hiding loot

So if you're teammate planning to save your loot the only way to do it is to take it with himself

even tho its still popo and unnecessary asf

The game isn't that complex as tarkov or cycle where you can die to some bullshit

For 300 hours i died to skellies or ring like 20 or even less times
and all this was because of my fault mostly

[rugged eagle]

Insurance should never be a feature, ever. If you bring an item into the dungeon it should be losable that's the whole appeal of the game.

[glacial sphinx]

Items being lost on death is necessary, it keeps the economy healthy and the game exciting. It also helps make RMT slightly less appealing.

[real trellis]

I think it encourages and discourages it in equal measure

[queen lotus]

yeah thats the whole point of the game

[fierce relic]

only time im upset about losing gear is when i die to rogue.. that is some unfair bs. id rather die to disconnect or cheater.

i would pay insurance to not play in lobby with rogues. make it 200g per game

[real trellis]

lmfao

[gaunt cargo]

[civic otter]

Most rogues aren't even that good honestly. At least not the ones I had come across. Now that being said I have pulled off some bs playing AS a rogue before, but I've one shot my fair share of them

[signal rain]

agreed

[ebon valve]

ok, what do you think about a placeable mimic! you can bring with you and place in the dungeon!

[quasi ore]

Suggestion: allow us to keep leveling up characters after level 20, if only just cosmetically. Seeing my character at a hypothetical level of like 80, even giving no gameplay advantages above a level 20 character, would make me feel really accomplished and experienced, and sort of a metric of my experience on that character

[vivid rover]

^ this but add +1 all stats every 100 levels to give players a sense of pride and accomplishment

[lone crescent]

No

[graceful frost]

no

[vivid rover]

every 100 levels is fair, it takes a lot of work to level that much and should be rewarded

[olive kettle]

get that tarkov shit outta here

[vivid rover]

The game needs some kind of progression system to keep people playing or it will get boring, this would be perfect. Maybe unlock different starting kits by leveling high too

[rugged eagle]

Is obtaining gear not a form of progression?

[olive kettle]

quests

[tawny python]

no

[dusky kernel]

Sounds like “progression” at the expense of balance

[lone crescent]

No, it's a pvp gane everyone should be equal

[vivid rover]

theres nothing equal about this game lol, people go in with very different gear and some people get it gifted (streamers) or buy it for money (RMT)

[olive kettle]

ban them

[lucid root]

Long term progression models are the epitome of boredom

[vivid rover]

I agree, streamers who get gifted free gear should be banned but theres no way that will happen since they provide free advertisement for the game

[lucid root]

Every bad mmo comes to mind, (shhh osrs im not talking about you bby)

[frosty creek]

i think maybe dont give stats but for equal playing field put diff ppl in diff game modes
so lvl 1-20 player play with 1-20 player in starting dungeon (maybe 5 or 6 rooms only )
and lvl 20-50 player play with 20-50 player and have high lvl dungeon maybe 7 or 8 rooms ? and with new mob type like goblin or mosquito (beginner only fight skeleton )
and then lvl 100+ its prestige and u reset
but prestigious adventurer must go on prestigious quest
so he can only go for C (this is grade for prestige 1) or above quest or adventures
and then in prestige 2 he will become B rank adventurer
and can only go quest vs harder difficulty opponent
then again for A rank adventurer
and at final rank (S) rank u will only fight dragons to protect the kingdom
and S rank adventurer is strategic resource so u cant play when ever u want
they are a deterrent for other invading countrys
so S rank adventurer only can go 1 adventure a week and this will be announce in advance

[rugged eagle]

I think current matchmaking is fine there is already naturally a form of progression with goblin caves being the easiest moving into crypts and then high roller

[rigid prawn]

Sounds like a good way to make queue times longer than they are already lol

[lone crescent]

Different gear is waaaay different then having higher stats

It seems faur to you to die cause the oppenent ahs higher stats cause he olayed more then you? Is the most canc3r thing for a pvp game

[compact barn]

Sometimes the best use of allies is to consume their souls to sustain your rage

[graceful frost]

No it doesn’t. Also do we not have getting gear different wipes and the game strait up being very fun already? No reason for plus attributes from level. Also that will make ppl start botting and afking for levels

[graceful frost]

Yeah I would also much rather die when I have a chance of getting good stuff if I kill then compared to me in default gear against there +5-10 all in default gear where it’s just unfair and I have no chance of getting anything

[queen lotus]

yeah I've got a better idea, how about every 100 levels you get a vanity item that has no effect on stats or gameplay, but it looks pretty cool

[graceful frost]

👍

[summer drift]

This. Prestige cosmetic items would be cool if you really wanted people to grind

[lone crescent]

I don't understand all this stuff about grinding for levels in pvp games

You don't need any reward for playing, you just need to have fun.

A fair game is what makes it fun, pitting levels restriction to stats and gear or stuff is dumb.

Imagine are level 20 and you are fighting a level 500 with +5 stats, is almost like fighting a green gear player if he got basic stats, with better gear the power creep would be insane

[quasi ore]

Yeah I reeeally don’t like the idea of gaining stats above level 20. I still think just a cosmetic level increase would be just a lil icing on top of an already fun game. an increase of stats past level 20 has no benefit in my eyes.

I think seeing your character be a high level or time until wipe is plenty enough reward, because if you’re that high level anyway you’re probably going to have at least decent gear, but probably more. I know I would also measure how much I played during different wipe cycles, like if I got my character to level 50 before a wipe, but got it to level 60 before the next. I just think it’s a cool way to see how much you’ve played and feel just a little good about it without it affecting gameplay.

I don’t even think other people should see your character’s level if you kill them, and especially not in killfeed for everyone else to see because that might affect how people play, if a bunch of low levels are in killfeed you know it’s an easy game, a bunch of high levels and you might decide to just rat and try to get out with only what you came with.

The idea of a long-term experience metric for a wipe-style game doesn’t really make sense, I know, but if it doesn’t affect gameplay and serves as just a tiny thing for the player (me) to see just for themselves and be satisfied with it, then that’s enough for me!

[lone crescent]

Well we know that talents and skill trees will be added in the future, maybe levels will give perks and that's a good reason to keep the level cap low to avoid power creep.

You are describing something like battle pass or seasons, it doesn't need to be tied to character level, it can be tied to account

I don't mean a paid battle pass, there are games with comoletely free battle pass

[quasi ore]

Omg yeah I completely forgot about that, that’s a great point

[queen lotus]

hell just give me a statrack carving on my blade. Id be happy with a kill count.

[hasty vigil]

kill count on weapons is a cool idea

[arctic lagoon]

weapon skins with kill count be neat for certain events

but not csgo style, just farm valentine tokens for a skin

[quick rover]

make a dungeon pass and a backpack that you can carry on your back istead a weapon

[sudden glacier]

why no suggestions?

[ebon valve]

Ruin map should not use spiral staircase but rather have a lower dungeon includeed below the casle, and one or more cellardoors down to floor2!

[abstract swallow]

his heart's in the right place, the parts of Ruins that had overlapping vertical segments were some of the best areas in the game

that open-air zombie room with multiple hidden entrances and the loopable underground altar area in the center staircase both rocked, lots of good PvP memories there

[rugged eagle]

I love verticality I hate when only a specific class gets the tools to abuse it

[summer drift]

Except they were really far from the center and you rarely got to go there with enough time to loot

[abstract swallow]

yeah, the spawns/outer deadzones needed a lot of work in Ruins
I loved the map but the PvE placement, spawns, and spacing/visibility needed some work

[rugged eagle]

Honestly I think ruins is the best map they've done I can't think of a single room I dislike other then maybe the wisp room? Shame rogues ruined it

[abstract swallow]

items not having interactable outlines when you're looking towards them is kind of a big issue if they ever want to include any kind of visual obscurity/greenery in the game, items already get lost under bodies and bad terrain clipping stuff all the time

[rugged eagle]

Gives me good for the future maps they're working on

[rugged eagle]

I seethe at how bangles and such still can't be interacted with from inside the gap

[abstract swallow]

yeah, I personally strongly dislike Crypts for the most part but Goblin Caves and some aspects of Ruins give me a lot of hope
especially since I don't believe they have a dedicated map designer on board, this has just been the team's efforts

[rugged eagle]

I really like the little shortcuts between crypts and the secret rooms stuff like that sells the dungeon vibe so well but it is my least favourite map out of all of them

[summer drift]

Ikr. We need more open maps and less bullshit double jumps

I think the one thing that could fix the ruins map vertical areas being towards the outside of the map would be to force people to traverse those areas. Have spots where you can only progress towards the center by entering those ruins or alerting those wolves, and make sure players start as far out as possible to force them to do it quickly. The pve in that map is actually more fun than the one in the dungeon because you have more room to run away and try different things, and at the start of the playtest it was fun having to find your way to one of the staircases

[abstract swallow]

yeah, the PvE fights themselves were actually really solid, and the wolves were some of the most consistent nogear melee PvE I've ever enjoyed
the issues was with the placement (6+ enemies in an empty single room, surrounded by 3 rooms with 0~2 enemies in them), Wisps being strange and impossible to read, and visibility issues (which were compounded by vertical audio issues sometimes, like with that crossbow skeleton on the broken walkway)

also the swarm is still really weak as a mechanic and frustrates a lot of the weak parts of all main-dungeon maps' designs
having a circle zone in a square map will always be awkward af

[summer drift]

Wisps were actually easy to dodge if you had the timing right, but they were really, really sneaky for a monster that's supposed to make your screen turn into a flashbang

[abstract swallow]

you had to fight them almost purely on rhythm, which wasn't hard to do if you were already competent at PvE, but boy did it take some learning (also pure white flashbang effects should have been left in 2005 where they belong)
most new/casual players I ran with never figured them out

[lone crescent]

They should make the screen black, white screen is horrible

Even CSGO is going to switch to black screen finally

[summer drift]

It's mostly when you fought multiples that it becomes a problem, or when one sneaks up on you since their projectiles were silent

[abstract swallow]

yeah, or when they patrolled the side of spawns and they could just loop all the way around you to come clap your cheeks from behind

[rugged eagle]

The aggro range on them was so weird clearing the wisp room was a nightmare because you couldn't tell how close you needed to be to pull just one

[ebon valve]

Iam woundering how IM are looking at theese issues!

[gaunt cargo]

If we're lucky, they don't look at this channel at all.

[graceful frost]

true

[rugged pilot]

grinding for stuff in Dark & Darker lmao

If you aren't hitting lvl 20 in an hour or two you are feeding to skeletons

[graceful frost]

Takes longer than 2 hours even if u extract almost every time. So bad strange has done no deaths to level 20 and the stream was around 4 hours

[gaunt cargo]

Did it in goblin caves in about 3 last pt

[abstract swallow]

You can make it in about 2 & change on a class with good lowgear PvE and know the juicy sources of EXP.

[lone crescent]

If i recall correctly devs said the xp gain was boosted in playtests

[rugged pilot]

so it takes 2-4 hours?

The time a normal person has to play after work in one night?

[lone crescent]

It could take even 10 from what we know

Or even more, we actually have 0 clues on xp right now

[rugged pilot]

Nah thats nonsense.

[lone crescent]

Most likely the wipe doesn't reset level, at some point every player could have all classes to max

[rugged pilot]

Even if it took double the time It'd be fine, nobody would care at all

If you aren't startergear locked it takes no time at all to progress

[lone crescent]

If you wanna exp fast the best way prob will be to rush all the mobs, kill champion and extract

[rugged pilot]

Legit do anything and you level up, its very easy

No idea what people are talking about grind

[spice zephyr]

Also currently who cares about level 20? There is no difference between 15 and 20

[lucid root]

We excited about the fishing system?

[spice zephyr]

Don't. Cry. I am just a FISH

[lone crescent]

Not really

[spice zephyr]

Fishing is the best, can't wait to act as a scrupulous follower of God who simply wants to fish to live another day

[lone crescent]

Is fishing confirmed?

[spice zephyr]

No

[rugged eagle]

🎣

shit wtf happened to my pogman fishing broke him

[spice zephyr]

A band of 3 bards, 2 cycle the peace song and the third slaps the enemy with salmon

[lucid root]

But also yes

[spice zephyr]

Imagine being a peasant who goes to his favourite secret fishing spot and a rogue suddenly shanks you

[lucid root]

Climbing the fishmonger leaderboards

Buy a grey rod and lure off huntsman, leave all combat gear in stash (people still fight in this game?), fish all the way to inferno

[rancid pebble]

fishing boss incoming

[lucid root]

Fisher of souls

[rigid prawn]

Catching rare fish in inferno, relaxing

[arctic lagoon]

again, thats just the dungeon crawler game Fate

[lucid root]

Studies have shown that fishing makes literally any game better

[rancid pebble]

source: its true

[wary junco]

Welcome in London

[autumn flare]

+1000

[obtuse lichen]

+10000 social credit

[molten copper]

Making peace with the barb across the goblin caves by furiously crouching and fishing to show you mean no harm, until he kills you for your fish

[patent mauve]

I toss a rockfish at him and poison his big toe.

[molten copper]

The barb is pleased with your offering. You may live today

[quick rover]

/seggestion

[ionic flume]

I suggest that we threaten to trigger a new border crisis in Korea if the game doesn’t release by end of May

[gaunt cargo]

Give them a line to hold lol

[strong cedar]

@plain knoll you want cursed armor/weapons? Does this mean that you dont know the stats until you learn it with a scroll or something and if you do it beforehand theres a chance you cant take it off?

[plain knoll]

Maybe some classes could have something called "Identify" learning hidden Properties about the object. Cursed Helmets for example could have a property where you cant take them off until you pay a shopkeeper. Cursed Weapons could deal additional fire damage to your enemy and yourself (the later is hidden). But that are just some examples i had in mind. I think there is definitely potential here. But it needs further refinement over time.

[arctic lagoon]

probably good stat buff with a bad stat debuff

[plain knoll]

exactly

[arctic lagoon]

example, +25 to interaction speed but -10 movement speed

[strong cedar]

oh, that'd be cool. would be nice for it to have its own red tier so that it cant mess up good items that you get from bossing and possibly make them too op

[abstract swallow]

Item Identification Speed is already an unimplemented substat of Knowledge, so you're kind of on the right track there.

[lucid root]

Only wizards can identify so we establish a monopoly in the market

[patent mauve]

People will probably sell unidentified items for that gacha moment. Like D2 Torches.

[rugged eagle]

It's already kind of in the game with goblin merchant so if they extend it to other items I might run out of gold gambling

[abstract swallow]

ItemID is probably one of the better plays IM can make for a healthier gear economy/looting experience (short of un-fucking rarity balance/adding an affix system)

as it is now players simply walk around with backpacks full of optimal value, there's no management or decision making involved and you extract with an absurd amount of cash

[arctic lagoon]

wait what can you identify???

[lucid root]

Sorry thats wizard only information

[arctic lagoon]

wizards only fool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U02dyy_pjSc how wizards be in dad

[junior agate]

They should add a crusader helmet, The one that’s all gray with the gold cross in the middle

Honestly on a cleric or fighter that would look sick, and they could do about the same protection as a visor barbute helmet

Maybe for the Templar armor and heater shield it would randomly generate a pattern on the shield, for example if you had Templar armor it could have like one of three color types, or a heater shield could have a lion on one or maybe like chevrons on another

Maybe it could add rarity to items like that based on how common the pattern is

Without upping the stats of course, they could function all the same as regular ones

[fierce relic]

I would love crusader helm too for fighter/cleric. But talking about helms it was pain to find a decent headpiece for fighter with slayer perk. Only option is leather cap and it's also very hard to buy one since it could be in any class marketplace. Any other slots have multiple options. Yeah there is cobalt leather...but I've seen one in game so far

It was easier to buy a cloak then decent leather cap in marketplace

[rugged eagle]

Cleric already has good armour options like how they can surprisingly use rubysilver fine cuirass I think crusader helmet would be fine for fighter and paladin in the future

[lone crescent]

Paladin will never happen, too similar to cleric and fighter

It could be either a subclass for cleric ( he can't use powerful healing spella) or a subclass for fighter (broken imho)

[abstract swallow]

paladin's existence is pretty dependent on how Class Trainer works, I would agree with that

half-casters in general would also be very reliant on them replacing the Perk & Skill system with actual passives and ability hotkeys

[teal arch]

Lol It will happen, they said they were gonna add every DnD base classes

[lone crescent]

Did you even read the other comment? #suggestion-discussion message

What's the point in making a class that uses the same weapons and gear but with magic?

[teal arch]

I did, but why would paladin be a subclass and how would that even work

[lone crescent]

Skill trees? Talents?

[teal arch]

The same as in DnD, paladin will have specific skills/talents and be able to use many martial weapons and cast a bit of magic, and use armor

[lone crescent]

This is not DnD, every class should be unique

It could be a skill tree for cleric where you lose healing magic and you gain shield, paladin's weapons and magic

[teal arch]

I disagree, paladin should be it's own class, but you do you, have a good day

[rugged eagle]

Pretty sure they have already announced paladin same with artificer and sorcerer but who knows how they will implement it

Actually my bad it wasn't "announced" per se it was more of their initial idea for future classes so it is subject to change. See here: https://youtu.be/uKULTFV9HRM?t=508

[lone crescent]

I mean Paladin is just a cleric with different spells

I know merging both in one is op, that's why the best solution could be subclasses with locked spells

[rugged eagle]

Yeah kinda they're a bit different nowadays but if they remain faithful to D&D it will just be fighter cleric which I hope they don't do I'd like them to be a bit creative with it

[lone crescent]

I don't think they will add a ton of classes, where they can they do subclasses

[rugged eagle]

Trust me I'd love subclasses eldritch knight would be but so far the devs have succeeded in making each class really fun to play and distinct so I trust if they add paladin they will do it well

[lone crescent]

It's better then having 20 classes all similar

[lone crescent]

They can make 2 different skill trees, one cleric and one paladin, they make you start with some perks so you can already choose the subclass from level 1

Like on the right you take lesser heal, sanctuary, etc, on the left you take holy spell, something like that

[rugged eagle]

Sure I'd like cleric to be a bit less maritally and focus more on spellcasting so I'd like some distinction between them and paladin because currently cleric can hit really high DR like almost comparable to fighter with the rubysilver fine cuirass which is weird as hell

[lone crescent]

You get competence with bigger shields and weapons with paladin and so on

[rugged eagle]

Paladin sword and shield caster would be a good replacement for eldritch knight the possibilities are endless I'm really excited with how they handle the class trainer

[lone crescent]

They need to choose if they want to make hybrid possible or not tho

[rugged eagle]

I swear if it's just little passives like +2% holy damage or something

[olive kettle]

just being able to use swords is massive

[bright sierra]

Fighters and barbarians are pretty similar imo and they're separately in the game. By your logic barb probably could be a subclass of fighter

[lone crescent]

Yes so similar that they use totally different weapons, fighter heavy armor barb light, fighter resistant to phys barb to magic, similar...

[bright sierra]

And the same way you find specific differences between fighter and barb try that for Paladin and Cleric and Paladin and fighter

[abstract swallow]

Paladin/Ranger/Warlock would make for an interesting trinity of "half casters", and would line up with there being three categories of magic class (Wiz/Sorc, Druid, Cleric)

[lone crescent]

No cause paladin uses shields an swords, maybe a flail.

Even armor, they should make a third class with heavy?

He could be just a magic fighter or a powerful cleric if they make him a separate class

If they just make a bunch of new characters with different classes then the character pool becomes massive, and skill trees could be straight up scrapped

Cause using skill trees for stat boosts doesn't fell right to me

[abstract swallow]

If they're going with a skill-tree system for Class Trainer I'd guess there'd be stat-bonuses baked into certain connector/passive nodes.
It'd help justify Fighter starting with +0 in every single stat, at least.

[patent mauve]

I'd like for the skill tree choice between one passive or one ability from certain shared classes, like meditate for cleric, and axe specialist for fighter.

[soft finch]

Where?

[rugged eagle]

In the link below that message

[distant crow]

yo Graysun get some sleep

[lucid root]

if he's reading general chat thats an easy -10 sanity debuff

[distant crow]

the dark grows darker...

[lone crescent]

Imagine he left the pc or phone on with discord to troll us

[compact barn]

Poor guy lol

[wary junco]

His electricity Bill will cost more then the court

[carmine gazelle]

I have a couple suggestions. Sorry if they have been repeated.

1. Different appearing armour based on rarity (like how higher rarity weapons look cleaner/less damaged, maybe an epic marauders outfit is trimmed/has thicker metal plates on the kilt and upper chest etc)
2. A VERY rare chance of a specific new mob that spawn in the crypts/inferno that is optional behind a lever or whatever
3. Said rare mob OR bosses could drop weapon components, that can be taken to a merchant to craft into a weapon of choice OR have the weapon frame taken to a location in game to craft what you want from the frame with random rolls
4. A method of "re-rolling" weapon and armour attributes, whether in dungeon or merchant, which could be another gold sink
5. Quest lines that once complete allow certain stats to be blacklisted in the re-roll process (max of 1 or two?)

[glacial walrus]

@carmine gazelle I really like the idea of rerolling items. I think it would have to be fairly pricey tho. Maybe collecting specific items/mob parts along with a gold fee at alchemist to 're-enchant'? Would make sense in the world at least.

I was watching a bard gameplay vid and a thought came to me.. what if the bard could weave songs together to get two bonuses at once? Making the song much more difficult to play and adding components of each (the literal music) to a composition. I think it would make him much more skill expressive, and with assuming the addition of a couple more songs, could make him very viable as a support.

How I think it could work: After one song has been triggered and is autoplaying, you select and begin another song. The first song doesn't end, instead you have to play both songs at once with all their individual notes combined. Thoughts?

[pastel storm]

^ sounds cool

[tawny python]

? paladin is know for heavy sword or sword and shield .

[teal arch]

? and?

[tawny python]

u just said he could use alot of weapon ?

[teal arch]

yeah thinking of pathfinder specifically, paladins have proficiency with all martial weapons just like a fighter

[dense crown]

I think the paladin would ether be a stronger fighter or a stronger cleric, that would make the lesser version obsolete

A heavy armored shield and sword healer, why would i pick cleric?

[graceful frost]

Paladin isn’t really a healer. And it would be different to fighter fight is very versatile with almost every weapon. Paladin would be slow with heavy armor and weapons

[steep crown]

so berserker with heavy armor?

[compact barn]

I feel sorry for anything that is slower than fighter lol

[surreal hawk]

add guns

[granite plinth]

Yes also add a helicopter so that we can fly it in the dungeons

[surreal hawk]

agreed

[tough pasture]

Give us 1 minute cooldowns instead of 2 minutes. We've been good line holders!

[cunning wolf]

Thoughts on a CS style mode? 5v5 pvp sounds super fun in this game, and instead of planting a bomb one team could be putting a dragon egg in an incubator, and after a timer a dragon hatches in a burst of flames. You would have CS style economy with buying better or worse loot each round, IE a wiz would budget buy a grey spellbook. Winning team would get randomized loot for their class.

[placid canopy]

I keep seeing people say it's 2 min but it says 30s for me?

[rugged eagle]

They mean in general chat let's just say it has 2 min slowmode for a reason lol

[placid canopy]

Ah. Just like the the 4th person I've seen say it here had me confused

[lone crescent]

Bard is fine for me, he just more and better songs.
I think buffs duration will be related to instrument rarity

[outer niche]

scrap the game if this ever happens

[tulip bone]

my suggestion... win the lawsuit come out with game,

[west wharf]

xxx tentacion for laaaife

[mental ether]

What do you guys think if they make it a 40 price tag plus in game donations to support servers? I feel like they could get plenty of funds without having ludicrous looking cosmetics that ruin the ability to see how geared your enemy is.

[lone crescent]

I prefer a bunch or merchandise honestly

[compact barn]

I’d like a gigantic DaD mousepad with a longsword on it lol

[ripe hornet]

What are yall thoughts on the idea of the talent tree being unlocked at level 20 and allowing for a class to basically sub-spec. Like a cleric could become a twilight cleric and have some shadow abilities, or a ranger could become more attuned with nature and have a pet/companion. (I saw this idea being discussed on the Darkest Hour podcast a while back and thought it was super cool and would add a lot of variety into the game)

[real trellis]

I think having the talent tree unlock at 15 would feel better in terms of consistent progression since 15-20 are essentially dead levels

[ripe hornet]

True i think that just stems from classic dungeons and dragons having 20 be like your max level and when you can kinda ascend in some cases

[lone crescent]

In D&D subclasses starts at level 21 if i recall correctly, maybe they will do the same

[real trellis]

I don't know what edition you've been playing but 20 is the maximum level in every modern D&D other than 4e

[granite plinth]

make level cap 69

[placid canopy]

It'd make much more sense to get a skill point for the tree each level from 1-20 and the subclass is basically just the path you choose on the tree
That way there aren't just constant dead level ups

It feels super weird to level up 4 times and not get anything

Every 5 could be like the perk slots we had in previous tests level of power and 20 is just the capstone you can't get if you multiclass which I remember hearing a bit about. You can just get filler small upgrades for the "dead" levels

[fierce relic]

I don't think levels add anything to the game. Only discourages me try new class since I have to grind 4h to reach the full potential of that character. And it will probably take a couple of days in EA to lvl 20.

[placid canopy]

I just like it because it fits the theme of D&D while also adding longevity to the game and rewards people for playing more even if they keep dying for a sense of progression

Also customization that doesn't completely rely on gear is something that always feels good

[glacial sphinx]

Its good to give people a way to progress even if they don't escape. It makes them keep trying since unlocking more perks they'll feel they have a better chance. That will give them a reason to keep trying and in the process get better, leading to success and finding enjoyment.

[fierce relic]

I don't mind how it was in playtests but I'm worried that they add too much grind to the game with lvl progression and quests. Only reward for hours you put in should be gitting gud. The man who swings his sword better should win.

Keeping it simple is the key.

[glacial sphinx]

Yeah I think there was enough power progression, and there shouldn't be a huge grind to be able to fight evenly with others

[fierce relic]

Yeah I guess lvling up is a way to get a dopamine kick if you struggle to escape. But at the same time it's much harder to get levels if you don't escape. Making leveling harder or matter more will only increase the gap.

[lone crescent]

11 maybe? I don't remember

I never played DnD, i wanted to but never got the chance

[abstract swallow]

Levelling is a good "fail forward" mechanic, though any sort of Class Trainer system should open up relatively early.

[lilac garden]

They should bring back 3rd playtest spawns, where you would spawn in the outer part of the map.

[abstract swallow]

The maps need to be better designed to support that, more like the Blue Crypt spawns were. PT3 was just spawncamp city.

[graceful frost]

Eh. That made a spawn rushing meta, but they need to fix a lot of the current spawns. They are really rough

[vestal trout]

They should make it so archers have quivers instead of having to hold all the arrows in their inventories. The quiver can have a max of maybe like 20-30.

[compact barn]

Quiver should be in. Make them a cape slot option and put stats on them so fighters can choose to use them over capes as well

[signal condor]

I cannot post in suggestions channel, but shouldnt drop rates for all non basic items be lowered if the new wipe cycles are gonna be much longer than every single previous playtest? the game is going to become so saturated with cracked gear after the first two weeks of people farming stuff constantly, and it would help the earlygame keep up the hype of blue+ items. And since stashes are the same size people would usually be full by day 5-6, imagine day 38, would be aids.

[glacial walrus]

they have mentioned before that the loot is scaled up for playtests. Actual game will have lower chances for higher tiers.

[signal condor]

any mention of how much it was scaled up for the playtests? im curious as to how much different the ea will be

[glacial walrus]

I dont recall any specifics being mentioned, but i have a generally terrible memory lol @signal condor

[signal condor]

alright thanks

[patent mauve]

That's already the plan, the drops are gonna be a lot rarer.

[patent pebble]

Add a map that has or is a courthouse.

[signal rain]

Add a boss named after the ceo of nexon and have it be a gold hoarding ogre

[granite plinth]

Add a tatoo of nexon for troll's but cheeks

[foggy creek]

i would pay for that

[inner jetty]

hey just throwing this out there i'm running linux and your game hasnt had any large incompatibility issues with wine or proton please do not pull a marauders and break compatability for your linux players when they already love your game. in marauders it was the anticheat.got nothing but respect for you guys so far. keep it up.

[arctic lagoon]

Wonder what suggestions they will be adding

[honest owl]

I wish I could equip more than one fireball spell, would it really be op on the wizard? Not including cleric

[molten copper]

Just give wizard another fire based spell. Firewall. Bam

[glacial walrus]

They have enough fire: ignite, zap, fireball. Lets get some more frost love!!

[molten copper]

I hate to well actually, but Zap isnt coded as a fire spell, so fire mastery doesnt affect it.

So its not technically a fire spell

[glacial walrus]

I'm almost positive that fire mastery does. I remember seeing extra ticks. Technically I think you are right, zap is in the same group as haste and slow if the animations are correlated.

[rugged eagle]

Which is really dumb because it has a burn

I think zap is light magic same as light balls but I agree wizard needs some more elemental variety ice bolt does not scratch that frost wizard itch

[glacial walrus]

I knew zap wasn't fire spell but I figured because fire damage it would. I've been wrong for so long lol.

Frost is usually my favorite element on spellcaster types, so I'm right there with you @rugged eagle

[brittle jasper]

id love to see a perk that gives wizard a bonus if they use exactly 1 of each element of spell

[patent mauve]

I like that idea, like 5% bonus magical power for every spell cast from a different school of magic for 10s. Or something like that.

[lone crescent]

Hear me out at some point they need to make some kind of buff cap cause they will most likely add more buff spells to the game.
Now imagine Wizard + Cleric spamming like 3 buffs each or more on a Fighter/Barbarian, that's just an unstoppable meta.
I think the buffs should have some kind of limitations at some point, like 3/2 spell buffs together, maybe considering shrines too as spell buff

[dense sand]

https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Stats#Charts

[lone crescent]

???

[winged flare]

2 differnt portal mimics red and blue with loot silmillar to a wraith and a small chance to drop a scroll that takes you either out or down based on wich mimic u dropped it from this would take like 30 seconds and be afected by recourfullness

[arctic lagoon]

Add a dragon npc vendor thats hidden in dungeon

Big, big, dragon. Just imagine

[dense sand]

look at the scaling regarding power ramping on the charts

[glacial walrus]

yeah but let me kill dragon for his gold

[loud comet]

Add a rat with a bomb strapped to it

[woeful elm]

I hope they add a utility like magic scrolls that have low level spells, e.g. zap, heal, protection, bless, ignite.

Something that everyone can use.

[honest owl]

absolutely and it casting time could still be based on your knowledge/will stat so it isn't too spammy

[rugged canopy]

Who else thinks Bards should be able to sing songs, with diminished effect, and still swing a sword?

[woeful elm]

Absolutely, one use scrolls though, so you can’t turn a barbarian into a pseudo wizard. That would be scary.

[ripe hornet]

yall think there will be anything like a labs access card from tarkov? Could be like a teleport scroll that once you extract with you can use it to gain access to a mystical (higher risk/higher reward) map. Im also talking a completely different map not just a mob difficulty increase like high roller

[ripe hornet]

or it could be like a key to the upper levels of a castle

[gilded ether]

Could be some lore added to maps, specific rooms, items, named mobs, ... Why do we spawn there, in dead-ends most of the times.

[hollow shoal]

I'm a mod writer and D&D game master with 4 years of experience, Ironmace hire me, I'm gonna write it all for ya

[lone crescent]

Yes and? I mean ignite, divine strike, bless, etc, not stats

[woeful elm]

I like that idea, like a key for a down portal after inferno?

[ripe hornet]

yeah kinda i was thinking like you have a small chance of looting the key randomly in a dungeon and then once you get out with it you can use it to select a different dungeon on the map. Like selecting goblin caves vs howling crypt. It would be some seperate area that is on the same tier as a red portal or maybe even harder

[wary junco]

Maybe make it even garanteed so every match somwhere in the first circle that key can be found. Maybe increase the keys to 2-3 in highroller

[summer drift]

What kinda loot is guaranteed on that chest?

[summer drift]

Also I'd help do this for free on my spare time

[silver basalt]

How do you leave a suggestion to this bot ?ITs a minor QOL submission but i think it can be really easy to do and nice to have

[obtuse lichen]

Sadly suggestions are closed

[summer drift]

You mean a suggestion for one of the filter bots that blocks seemingly random words for no apparent reason but later doesn't block them? Such as "heavy armor"

[tawny python]

it doesnt .

[glacial walrus]

already been through that. I was wrong

[tawny python]

i wish they had more cc / utility spell

[silver basalt]

bruh, was to suggest just like a small thing, like when players press ready, host does not need to press "Start", just when everyone readies like a 3 sec delay and it auto starts.

[lone crescent]

The key thing is good but i don't think they should put in the game yet, the optimal way to implement it is making a different map with the key to go down

[woeful quarry]

When can admin play

[summer drift]

Probably whenever they want to test something

[dense sand]

bless is stats, ignite and divine strike are flat damage adds

[lone crescent]

Ok then Bless is stat but Divine Strike and Ignite? They already are OP together, even more if you stack protection and invisibility if they add more buffs they need some kind of cap to prevent power creep

O yeah Haste too, you can have like 6 magic buffs active, that's broken

[rugged eagle]

There already kind of is a hard limit where if you spend too much time buffing the effects wear off but I agree barb with wizard cleric comp in PT4 was a thing of nightmares

[lone crescent]

3 are already too much, + protection pot, + shrines + self buffs

I prefer a situation were a Wiz + Cleric team have to choose which one of the 2 will equip buffs

Or as an alternative the have to drastically reduce spell count on buffs

[regal lotus]

Sounds lame let ppl buff I hate arbitrary limits you have to learn and min max for

Balance the skills but buff cap is the worst way to balance it

[arctic lagoon]

I really think there should be certain buffs that cant stack

[dense sand]

the durations are so short that as you stack that many buffs the first 2 wear off, you can buff it and make it longer but really its a nonissue when combined with the diminishing return on stat ramping

[graceful frost]

No buff cap is good

[tawny python]

true in hr people will just use blue pot on top on cleric bubble u need like 2 hit to remove them

[arctic lagoon]

Thats what i mean, big defensive buffs should not stack that much

[autumn flare]

Give Cleric some swords so he can look like crusader

Maybe in form of some perk that allows him to wield swords

[olive kettle]

buff the combo attacks on mace they suck

[arctic lagoon]

Yeah, melee buffs for swords and maces are def needed.

Like zweihander should not have damage rampup and just do a set amount

Its impossible to get a full set of swings with that thing in certain areas

[tawny python]

zheilhander is so bugged .

[olive kettle]

if you can get the first swing you can get the second swing

[arctic lagoon]

Its too situational to get more swings in, i am serious even with good spacing you will hit a wall

[tawny python]

u need alot of space

[olive kettle]

spiked mace in particular is terrible with second swing doing 5% more damage 11% slower

[arctic lagoon]

Yeah certain damage ramp ups are horrid for how slow it is.

[lone crescent]

Protection pot, Protection spell, Haste, Ignite, Invisibility, Sprint/Rage and shrines effect, is that good?

Zweihander should be reworked with a semi vertical first attack and a better alt

[graceful frost]

Sorry I meant no, buff cap is good forgot the comma

[lone crescent]

K

[tawny python]

archer should have skill
they can shoot with 2 arrow .

[compact barn]

Zwei right click should start with a thrust

[arctic lagoon]

Yes, thrust into the swings

Add dark souls easter egg of a 1 in 1000 chance of a sword spawning in the campfire

[lone crescent]

Giving a trust as first hit on zwei feels op to me

[loud comet]

How about a perk that make clerics do more damage with their fists

[dense sand]

i feel like that should be a barb perk

clerics already can be immune to drunk and punch people to death its fun af

[placid canopy]

Or monk when it comes out

They will prob be the unarmed class

[regal lotus]

How u get immune to drunk

[placid canopy]

Cleric has a perk for it. Not sure if they meant on barb

[summer drift]

Barbs fists are op. They get so much faster unarmed and can still deal decent damage to finish people off

[remote hamlet]

So hear me out:
Once a certain threshold of Resourcefullness is reached you unlock a secondary application of the perk that works like haste and applies to cooldown reduction of abilities and increase rest recovery speed

Making a high resourcefulness build not as dogshit as it currently is unless ur pure mining

[loud comet]

New map idea mansion it would work with the maze like environment of the other maps

[olive kettle]

make mimics do damage upon activation but add some way to differentiate them beforehand

[ripe hornet]

kinda no point in it being a mimic if you can just tell its a mimic. The whole point is they catch people by surprise by being identical to their cloned object

[olive kettle]

yeah but they always miss their initial attack

[ripe hornet]

yeah i mean it would be super annoying if theres a system where you just always take damage on the first encounter. Thats like saying a skeleton should automatically summon from its bones and get a free hit when it stands up. The whole thing with mimics is they catch people off guard and get them if they are not paying attention, so as long as your paying attention and react in time you shouldn't be forced to take damage just because the chest you opened was a mimic

[olive kettle]

hence the need for a way to differentiate them beforehand none of the non paying attention streamers I watched got hit by mimics because it's an irl jumpscare

[ripe hornet]

But being able to tell that they are a mimic before hand just makes them obsolete, nobody would ever touch them in that scenario and then thats just a wasted creature

[olive kettle]

you'd need to pay attention to notice like in other games

[ripe hornet]

i just think being able to identify a mimic by looking at it just doesn't make sense and kinda defeats the purpose of it being a mimic

[gilded ether]

Would be fun to have a prison escape map, where you start with nothing at all

[ripe hornet]

on some skyrim intro type stuff lol

[gilded ether]

About weapons limitations by classes, couldnt we use any wep but with non-proficient maluses. Felt kind of weird the fighter class had weapons limitations

[ripe hornet]

they had the weaponmaster perk they could use to use any weapon

[gilded ether]

Oh! Sry, didnt knew this

[summer drift]

Imo the first bite of a mimic could happen faster, but it shouldn't be guaranteed

[ripe hornet]

agreed can definitely be improved but a 100% chance dmg attack would be too much lol

[olive kettle]

could give it a slower version of lockpicking minigame to avoid damage

[summer drift]

The lock picking game in general should be slower

[ripe hornet]

I'd like to see the skyrim style lockpick mini-games, where you have to wiggle the pick at different spots until it fully unlocks to the side

[remote hamlet]

The first attack of the mimic can't attack you. It's just an animation it does to signify its a mimic.

[olive kettle]

source

[lone crescent]

I guess it's true, no matter how close i was it never hitted me

Still mimics cause a jumpscare all the time lol

[placid canopy]

I don't even think they attack when they first open. It's just them jumpscaring you/waking up

[lone crescent]

The mimics right now are a treath cause they cause an unexpected third party with a player or they coul be 3 in a room and every member of the time could activate one at the same time

For all the rest they are just a meme to make you waste time fighting and that's good

[olive kettle]

the normal ones do barely 20 damage

[placid canopy]

I think you can also just squat and duck and they can't hit you either

But you can always just do the "kiss a homie" technique like every other monster in the game

[remote hamlet]

Do you speak English as first language? Cause this makes no sense

[remote hamlet]

You can't duck them unless you look straight down and have a slight slope your sitting down on

[lone crescent]

No english is not my first language, anyway i fixed it

[formal wadi]

[gentle otter]

skyrim

[patent mauve]

Oblivion*

[robust bison]

personnally i almost always hit chests to see if it's a mimic or not (only the biugs ones) and each time i don't do that it's a mimic 💀

be like me, check chests before openning em

[placid canopy]

Does that work for non barbs with smash? I don't think I ever tried outside of barb

[robust bison]

i play cleric and discovered 0 mimic with it and as i said i didn't cuz each time i forgot to do it on big chests almost each time it was a mimic

so can't confirm it but i think it discover it whatever the weapon and the class

[remote hamlet]

It does not work like that unless ur a barbarian lol

[granite plinth]

It doesn’t work unless you can break the chest, however mimics we’re affected by aoe spells and debuffs like barbarian’s roar

[summer drift]

Nice

[robust bison]

bro, the mimic dosn't sound like wood when it's awake xd

why it wouldn't work? it's a creature

[olive kettle]

and yet barb needs to hit it twice to activate

[granite plinth]

Can’t tell you why it doesn’t work, just that it doesn’t

[lone crescent]

I guess to wake up a mimic you need to deal a certain damage and mimics take trash damage unless you hit them inside the mouth

Didn't tested it, but technically the hit shouldn't bounce off if the chest is a mimic

[robust bison]

when it goes back to a chest state when it's low u steal deal "flesh" dmg

[lone crescent]

Yeah i know that, i don't know if that happens on first hit tho

[robust bison]

apparently it doesn't as ppl says

[topaz fog]

Depends on the size of chest and your loadout. I've managed to 1 hit activate a Mimic but truthfully don't remember the build to do so.

[lone crescent]

Prob is related to dmg

[topaz fog]

That would make a lot of sense as I did find and wear a lot of Physical DMG & True DMG related rings from the flying skellies.

[ebon valve]

• Add a 6 slot gold chest for 500gold. with carry capacity of 300 gold! that way it does not carry more gold then the bags, but we can have a chest instead ^^ and also its potentially worth 500 in trade with players !

[neon meadow]

Why bother, would rather have a bag that cost 500g and holds 100g. Gold storage is very annoying and I end up converting to candies because they stack nicer

The game has gotten to point where an auction house is needed. The current trading system is tedious and poorly implemented

[patent mauve]

Yeah I went from bags to candies to purple pendants and rings as gold storage.

[neon meadow]

This

[lone crescent]

It's already confirmed a gold chest to stack more gold, they didn't implemented in playtest to prevent breaking the economy

Also I'd like a system where when you buy/sell something only the gold inside the pouch gets transferred but you still keep the pouch in your inventory

Cause if you buy something for 400 for example the real price is 455, 40 worth pouches and 15 trading fee

[olive kettle]

70m gold spent on trade fees 15m gold spend on gold pouches

[summer drift]

What's the max amount of money you can fit on the trade window?

[olive kettle]

1250

+125 from 25 gold pouches

[neon meadow]

Idk if being capable of holding more gold can even break the economy. What people just ask for higher prices? Not like they can hoard a meaningful % of the total gold in game

[summer drift]

lol

It's not a bad thing. When people reach the point where they are physically incapable of hoarding more gold they'll be encouraged to spend it more on others

If you were able to amass infinite gold then you'd end up with the same issue as Hunt Showdown where some players never prestige just to keep raising their money above the hundred thousands, and they'll play with bad gear just to raise more money faster even though they'll never use it

[neon meadow]

Ya, but that isn't possible with any suggestions anyone has made lol

[summer drift]

What do you mean?

[neon meadow]

Hoarding infinite or even large amounts of gold

[ebon valve]

we all know that there is going to be a gold chest. the question is how many slots will it take, how much will it hold and what will it cost!

[neon meadow]

Idc tbh. I just want an auction house. The current trading scheme is trash

[summer drift]

An auction house will take haggling out of the equation, and you'd have to let people go afk during it because it can take a while. I don't know if that would be a good alternative

[neon meadow]

Would be massively better. Haggling isn't so good that's it's worth keeping an antiquated system in place

[ebon valve]

its part of the game

[neon meadow]

It didn't start as part of the game. So it can be changed and should be

Also just a bad argument, rangers having unlimited ammo used to be "part of the game". That has also changed @ebon valve

[abstract swallow]

Adding an unrestrained auction house would crater any form of progression or economy this game has on the spot, but we've done that song and dance plenty of times.

[neon meadow]

What form of progression is there? You literally can just buy anything already

[rugged eagle]

Lack of auction house was only a problem because the playtests were very time limited once EA comes out I think the current trade system will be perfect for the game

[neon meadow]

The current trade system is antiquated at best and in practice tedious/bad

Auction houses encourage trade. Obviously it enables other undesired things like gold selling. But that will exist no matter what

[neon meadow]

Ea will just bring more players and exacerbate the issues that already exist with the trade system

[rugged eagle]

Perhaps. Personally I had no issues with the trade system my only complaint would be that the filter system is lacking a bit but I'm sure that will get adjusted for EA

[neon meadow]

The main issue with the trade system is you have to literally stop playing to use it and just waste your time or don't use it

[rugged eagle]

Yeah I get that for me it was fun just sitting in trade chat sniping deals on items but I can see how some people would rather spend that time dungeon diving

[abstract swallow]

improving the current trade system would be better than replacing it completely for some automated instant-gratification system like an AH

[neon meadow]

👆 I would literally just over pay to be done with it

[neon meadow]

Improving it would be making an instant gratification system. I'll never understand why people value wasting their time for literally just the sake of wasting their time

[abstract swallow]

some of us that aren't edgy zoomerbrains actually enjoy interacting with other players

[patent mauve]

I overpay and undersell because I know that when someone gets a nice deal, it probably boosts their mood.
Being rich was never a goal for me, I just always end up with a surplus.
An auction house would be fine, if they increased the gold sink for using it. Make it 15% of the trade value in gold tax. Then people will still trade good items the old fashioned way, where the bulk of low end gear will be easier to obtain.

[rugged eagle]

The main way to avoid trade chat is to prioritize trinkets for your loot instead of other class gear since those have a pretty good space to gold ratio in your inventory

[neon meadow]

You're interaction via trade are shallow at best. Meaningful interaction would be having a discourse or gaming with people.

[abstract swallow]

let's haggle
how about a one-sided conversation with someone clearly replying with the bare-minimum of effort and gaming seperately

[rugged eagle]

A nice solution would be a slight buff to vendor buy prices so if you really want to avoid trade chat you don't get crippled by those merchant scam artists giving you like 9g for a green

[abstract swallow]

vendors having reasonable sellprice would be nice, especially for larger items

[patent mauve]

Buying GF 10k gold.

[patent mauve]

It's pretty evened out though, if you sell a basic green for like 40-50 youre only making 25-35g. So the time it takes to trade it is what you compare when considering selling to vendors.

[rugged eagle]

Vendor prices are too low atm for higher quality items I suppose it's to incentivize using trade chat but clearly alot of players don't like it so there needs to be an alternative if they don't wanna change it

[abstract swallow]

I'll agree that the value is accurate for lower rarity stuff, but they don't accurately reflect the value of high rarity items or even just mid-rarity items of larger sizes

it doesn't help that with no weight/bagslot system, larger items are disproportionately low-supply in the P2P economy

[patent mauve]

Im sure we'll get some form of crafting where we can break down gear for components, I don't see why they wouldn't expand on the crafting aspect when they have farmable ores.

[rugged eagle]

6g for stinky grey pants? understandable but greens and above are meant to be somewhat decent so why do they get the same treatment

[rugged eagle]

That would be nice I want more crafting in the game badly

[patent mauve]

I see it as spend 5 minutes trying to sell 2-3 green for 50g if profit, or sell them to the vendor for 25, and use that 5 minutes in a dungeon.

[rugged eagle]

That's fair but to me it means I don't even bother picking up green items that I can't use because green prices are not worth the investment in either trade chat or merchants considering the space they take in your inventory

[abstract swallow]

for the most part you're better off selling greens in bundles

[lone crescent]

Cause there's a limit to how much gold you can trade and how much gold you can have in stash, I'm not making stuff up #dev-qna message

[patent mauve]

Agreed there, that's why I'm for an auction house, but make it better suited for bulk low end gear, and make the gold sink higher for those that still don't want to haggle with purple+ items.

[abstract swallow]

I've sold a number of half-looted kits from HR players for cheap just to move a lot of material fast for easy profit
honestly being able to sell multiple pieces of gear is singlehandedly keeping the current trade system in my good graces

[rugged eagle]

Yeah the trade fee incentivizes bulk trades instead of individual ones

[patent mauve]

True, and if we look at the data, people start to trade more and more gold even after only like 3-4 days, the average gold spent goes up to like 300+ median.

[abstract swallow]

multi-item trades + hard limit on items/gold/general value in stash makes for a good economic foundation

[rugged eagle]

I think I just have PTSD from WoW auction house with everyone running bots undercutting eachother 24/7 an auction house system could work but atm I like the current system

[patent mauve]

Gives me a Diablo 2 nostalgia fix, along with the occasional scammers lmfaooo

[patent mauve]

100%, I think that the game has a healthy foundation for gold sinks, and the auction house would increase the time people spend in game, so it's a win/win/lose kinda scenario for me.

[abstract swallow]

we don't need an unrestrained auction house, just a simple market board system
like a less robust Grand Exchange or something, limited/timed sellslots and a % tax

[rugged eagle]

That sounds like a decent change. This is why I wish dev qna opened up again so we could see what the devs think

[lone crescent]

Honestly what the game needs are just good filters on the market, you can put all you stuff in market then manage your stash while waiting

If i remember correctly they said they want to keep this trade system cause they like player interaction

In Tarkov and in MMO games the system is broken, yes you pay a fee but you can make an impossible price to use the market as a temporary stash

[abstract swallow]

if they could just change it so that you could have multiple 'tabs' of the market open, made it so the status of a trader was clear (free/busy/no longer in tradechat), and made it so you could see what message/offer they were initiating a trade off of (BOB wants to Trade {Selling [Longsword] 50gp}) I think that would help a lot with the 'wasted time' and general clunk of tradechat

[lone crescent]

Actually you don't need to stay in the market page, you can drop your items in chat and leave, people can still send you trade request

Let's say you post your stuff in market as soon as you get back from a game, then you go to market, sell your stuff, manage your gear and in the meantime someone could buy your stuff, if not you you start a game and do the same after

[abstract swallow]

yeah, you can get pinged by other chats, it's just awkward
especially since you can be pinged for items you've already sold in another chat

[neon meadow]

Haggling will still exist, as people will under cut and more than likely you'll see their name as the seller. Creating repeat business in which you can avoid AH fees

[neon meadow]

Duh? Read the conversation lol

[abstract swallow]

I wasn't discussing haggling I was making a joke at my expense about how I'm not really responding to you with any seriousness because I'm using voice to speech while playing a videogame

[lone crescent]

The chat ping should disappear once you sold the item

[neon meadow]

So like your entire point of view on this subject. Not thought out

[abstract swallow]

unless you're an e-girl healer you're getting as much of my attention span as my highschool homework did

[neon meadow]

Checks out for anime profile pic lol

[abstract swallow]

I wish I still had an actual anime profile picture so that joke landed properly, it'd help with the persona

[neon meadow]

But the GE from OSRS would be perfectly fine representation of AH

[abstract swallow]

yeah, something nice and restrained with set slots

[neon meadow]

🤣. Has some anime art style pic. 🤓 this actually isn't from a real anime. LOL

[abstract swallow]

get all the benefits of automation without depricating all economic gameplay that isn't just shovelling high-traffic AH fodder into your backpack every dungeon

[neon meadow]

You were the one that changed the goal post to unrestricted, creating a strawman that I did not

[patent mauve]

Now kiss

[abstract swallow]

I did intepret information you didn't add, but that's more of a matter of miscommunication than anything
since "Auction House" tends to refer to WoW and it's clones' "list stuff, get money" namesake approach, I just assumed that was what was being referred to

[neon meadow]

IE assuming lol

[abstract swallow]

yes

[neon meadow]

The tarkov and wow AHs are probably the best thing. As osrs doesn't have different versions of the same item.

[granite plinth]

the prices are low on purpose to force you to get used to the old school trading system, they don't care that you want an auction house

[olive kettle]

why is the tax so high then

[granite plinth]

As for higher rarity, they want the gear in circulation, if vendor prices were high enough to warrant selling to them it would naturally inflate the trade chat prices anyway, making the change redundant

[glacial walrus]

I think i would hate to see vendors buying items at reasonable prices too. Why do you want people just throwing items into the void? Incentivize them to bring to AH or save it for a friend that could use it!

[patent mauve]

I hope if we get an auction house is favors low end gear trades, so we have less resale of items artificially inflating the market values.

[olive kettle]

cant wait to buy a legendary with 50 green items

[patent mauve]

Get 7 kits out of one legendary, or lose legendary to game crashing, profit.

[abstract swallow]

I'm honestly surprised that items can be re-traded without being extracted again, that'd cut down nicely on the endless regurgitation of high-end gear

[neon meadow]

If you want gear to be in circulation. The best way is Ah, it's much more likely to get yeeted into the void currently

[summer drift]

It doesn't seem like they want you to be able to post and sell stuff while you're offline, but that's how every other market-dependent game usually does it

The downside is that you'll always find what you're looking for in the market, which makes the whole market a little bit pointless for low level gear as you could simply sell those items in the shops and no one would bother (ie the hand crossbow)

[granite plinth]

AH leads to more reselling price inflation etc

[noble thicket]

AH would be fun especially with new professions to focus on

[graceful frost]

AH is a bad idea. doesn't rlly fix anything. inflates prices, there will be even more people flipping weapons for a profit. there is no negociating a price or anything like that.

[patent mauve]

This is assuming that there isn't going to be a greater gold sink to trade on the AH or that items traded will be able to be traded again.
If they do it like Tarkov, it might be okay.

[graceful frost]

eh. I dont like the idea

[neon meadow]

I'd rather deal with inflation than straight up time sink

[glacial sphinx]

AH makes your drops less cool, because you'll see a thousand better items on the AH at all times, IE the best 1000 items out of 2-5 million players.

It also means running dungeons will be nowhere near the best way to get geared/rich, because playing the AH is faster and comes at no risk of losing your gear.

It changes the balance of the game by making greens dirt cheap and permanently available because without the time sink of selling them you can sell them cheaper efficiently. It also reduces the amount of interactions between players. I would not do it.

[snow dock]

Wow, I was a hater of the trade system and a AH fanboy until I read you.
These are GOOD arguments. I don't want any AH anymore

[fierce relic]

I like the current system. But it could be improved with better filters and maybe merge all the class trade channels in one and make it easy to filter for the class you want ? Because I really struggled to find decent blue/purple leather cap for my slayer fighter between all the channels. It's not like it's a rare item. But it was the only headpiece I could wear.

[fierce relic]

But at the same time while the servers were lagging I would buy magic damage gear at wizards trade post and sell it to rogues who think stacking magic dmg is good. Ez gold.

[snow dock]

I agree with you: I dont like the way you have to change between channels when you are looking to something that can be wore by all classes, for example, a lightfoot boots.
It happens the same when you have to sell something

1 trade channel with class filters, that would be awesome

[summer drift]

What's AH? Auction house?

[snow dock]

yes

[brittle jasper]

take tradeing and then remove all of the fun and intresting aspects and you get an auction house

[summer drift]

Lol

When you post a fixed price and wait for someone to buy an item does that count as AH? Like games such as dead frontier

Where you can filter out posts to see all the different prices of an item all at once

[reef spindle]

Do you think falchion stats should be changed to fit historical accuracy?
Falchions are super thin so also lighter

[summer drift]

I think having a better way to filter trades would be great. Force people to put a price or set (trade request) as price and then log the entries in a database rather than spamming on chat.

Chat would work better for special offers and services

I used to post BUYING messages often to try and get cheap really low quality crossbows in large quantities

[hasty vigil]

trading/haggling gives dopamine. AH does not

[patent mauve]

Dopamine from dungeon diving> trade chat, and I'm a Diablo 2 enjoyer

[wanton lintel]

turning dark and darker trade into mcdonalds fastfood insta-gearbuy is an uninspired suggestion

[ebon valve]

so keep the trade as is but add some quality of life to channels and filters! sounds good`?

[rugged eagle]

[fierce relic]

[brittle jasper]

the inproved filter system on the trade chats in pt5 was very good i liked it a ton

[patent mauve]

Why not both? with AH having a greater gold sink?

[abstract swallow]

an AH system just automates out any economic/NPC shop progression in a heartbeat
a market board system with time-locked slots and a % tax would probably be fine though
the devs seem appropriately hesitant to let players trade/make money 'offline'

[fierce relic]

i can see bots overtaking candy/ore market pretty quick...

[patent mauve]

Yeah market board would be nice.

[languid trail]

Crossplay with console

[tawny python]

prices depend on the meta tbh

i had a bardich with 6 hp + 3 str +2 agility and no one bought it

[cosmic thistle]

I had a blue spear with +2 agility and people wouldn't buy it for 30. I had to vendor it

Yes its about meta but sometimes the right people just aint looking.

I think selling things should speed up once early access hits and everyone cares about the market more. It would also help if all of the buyers werent crashing from DDOS attacks.

[brittle jasper]

im gonna say 90% odds you diden't have 15 gold for the trade fee

[placid canopy]

Selling stuff for 15g profit is hardly worth your own time when you can just go back into the dungeon again

I do appreciate people who do it for when I need something, but man is it just not worth sitting there trying to sell stuff for tiny amounts

[stiff imp]

Underrated comment! Haha this shit happens so many time trying to trade someone with a decent item but who had no gold

[brittle jasper]

saw ppl selling stuff id be more than happy to buy try and sell for 5-10 mins lowering the price over and over again but they diden't have the 15 gold for the fee felt bad man

[robust bison]

Happenned once when i wanna trade someone with a good item but coulen't buy

[lone crescent]

The key to sell greens is selling 2 or 3 at a time, like 3 green arming swords, 3 green spellbook, 1 blue and 1 green together, etc

[gleaming kestrel]

TFW you leave the last suggestion before channel locks and it gets down voted to hell

[lone crescent]

When you sell a good weapon you like like 20-30 more and i will add this one, most people will accept cause it still less then buying it alone and you bypass the trading fee

[lone crescent]

To be fair that last Warlock suggestion got downvoted cause it is bad

[compact barn]

Idk I had literally no problem selling almost every green I ever had for 50g lol

[gleaming kestrel]

Can't relate, my suggestions always get mass upvoted

[lone crescent]

Cause people doesn't know their value, using a good green is like using a bad blue

Unless you really want to use that weapon it's useless to buy for 50

[lone crescent]

I did a suggestion months ago about not making open maps with direct line of sight through rooms and got downvoted badly, some months after everyone crying for Ruins lol

[neon meadow]

This is actually not true, in regard to player interaction. The current system actually alienates more players than it encourages. As most people don't want to suffer the trade chat.

In addition, greens and other items being more readily avaible is a good thing. As it will help newer players generate wealth when they don't have the knowledge of what items and prices are good to flip

Finally, anyone who has grinded lich\ghost king. Will know that your drops are not very rewarding, as you've gotten a dozens of legendaires that have terrible rolls for you and the people in your party and just sell them at w\e price just for the space

[snow dock]

Suggestion: you get an error when you try to enter to the trade and you haven't enough money to pay the fee

[warm ruin]

lol

[graceful frost]

Yeah it’s annoying how ppl can go post stuff without enough money and won’t get notified

[snow dock]

Sometimes the same person over and over xD

[graceful frost]

Yeah and they keep lowering the price so you see a really good deal. Click and get really sad

[topaz fog]

I have a feeling this will be fixed by EA

[graceful frost]

Prolly. I only rlly care about storage in the stash though. Would play this game forever in this state

[coral merlin]

A pocket sand ability that makes your screen black for a sec then for a few seconds puts a sandstorm type filter on your screen

[hasty vigil]

losing vision probably feels horrible and not fun at all in pvp which is probably why the holy strike has a small blind compared to the wisps

[coral merlin]

I was thinking it would be pretty much the same “length” just for rogue, maybe fighter

[rugged pilot]

when you suggest an ability without even thinking for a second about the consequences

Absolutely incredible gameplay of 3 rogues spamming pocket sand on a staggered pattern so you near constantly have blind / sandstorm filter

[coral merlin]

Lol with that logic 3 clerics should win with only holy strike, long cooldowns are great for strong mechanics 🙂

[worthy rock]

Two fo my friends with ranger mains quit after last playtest because of the arrows and how they are in the inventory/lack of quiver. Could this be fixed in the next playtest?

[rigid prawn]

More the likely we are getting quivers in some form, lots to look forward to

[rugged pilot]

win no, very annoying yes. Cleric bullying squads with Holy Light and Judgement were frequent enough

You think a 1v1 Powerhouse needs a blind+visual hamper to make fighting them the most miserable experience. As if hit and run was not bad enough

[patent mauve]

They got addicted to the easy ranged play style, yeah quivers will probably be introduced in the EA

[neon meadow]

Ofc it "could" be fixed. The reality is you'll probably always have arrows in your bag until they some how are looted/loaded differently

[fierce relic]

if they introduce special arrows/ bolts(poison,fire whatever) then mby rangers could unlock unlimited regular arrows/bolts in skill tree.

[lone crescent]

They will never do special arrows, unless is some active skill like your next 3 arrows have fire or something

[rugged eagle]

I remember the devs mentioning something about special arrows for ranger

[lone crescent]

Cause making special arrows will break all the balance of the class and they need to rework the ranger and bows from 0

[coral merlin]

Fighting a rogue is supposed to be hard, hard to hit, hard to see, hard to catch that’s the whole point. They also are quite squishy. The only thing I found annoying was the 100% accuracy range of the crossbow mobs I wouldn’t be bothered by 2 blinds at all.

[lone crescent]

No Rogue is not based on dodging, Rogue is based on ambushing and dealing huge burst damage

No Rogue will fight relying on dodging

[rugged eagle]

Ye they're meant to be the answer to range classes since they are really fast and can sneak around they aren't meant to be 1v1ing fighters/barbarians

[coral merlin]

Dungeons & Dragons fantasy role-playing game.[1] A rogue is a versatile character, capable of sneaky combat and nimble tricks. The rogue is stealthy and dexterous, and in early editions was the only official base class from the Player's Handbook capable of finding and disarming traps and picking locks. The rogue also has the ability to "sneak attack" ("backstab" in previous editions) enemies who are caught off-guard or taken by surprise, inflicting extra damage.

[coral merlin]

Wrong

[lone crescent]

How that even contradicts my comment?

[coral merlin]

You said no rogue dodges, all they do is burst damage

[lone crescent]

Yes in Dark and Darker, you can't fight an enemy hoping he will miss

[coral merlin]

This game is based on D&D that’s what makes it so great, there is SO many options for skills to pick from and they are sticking true to it hence the double jump and backflip, it may not be the most popular but that’s what a rogue does

[lone crescent]

Yes but DaD doesn't have dices lol

Good luck dodging every hit as a glass cannon

[coral merlin]

Thank you, it’s been working well so far 🙂

[lone crescent]

Lol

[summer drift]

The thing about rogues is that they needed walls to do a double jump. They jumped off of walls, not in the air

[coral merlin]

100% agree that would be a better option than a CD on it

[compact barn]

Think we’ll see special arrows. Water arrows like in the old school thief game would be cool as hell. Shooting out torches around the map to be sneaky deaky ranger

[rigid prawn]

Take tumble watch as a barb struggles to hit you without ever double jumping lol

[rich turret]

I think a playtest should um come out

[obtuse lichen]

how come it will break the balance?
changing the numbers and mechanics for the sake of the balancing isn't that hard with proper data from the players
its like when they nerfed or buffed different classes and weapons

also survival bow will be really usable with poison arrows

I think most of the special arrows that have damage dealing debuffs will have slightly lesser impact damage or will reduce damage from the bow in certain %
basically it will be better to shoot faster because you deal less damage with impact but you will be more useful because of the debuffing enemy

[obtuse lichen]

also i think every special arrow should have pros and cons
Fire arrow
cons- slower projectile speed, slightly less impact damage, cannot be stacked only refreshed.
pros- deals physical damage, cannot be cleansed.
Poison arrow
cons- less impact damage, can be cleansed.
pros- deals small magic damage but can be stacked on top of each other.
Frost arrow- really rare and hard to find.
neutral - deals only magic damage.
pros- can work around phys protection.
cons- really weak against magic protection.
Im open to discuss about arrows

disabling multishot or quickshot for some arrow types might be great idea as well

Also i think if something is gonna get special projectiles it needs to be a crossbow
because its really underused on the ranger rn

[robust bison]

cuz i think it's not made fr the ranger, the skills for crossbow on ranger are less strong than the bows ones + there's less skills for crossbow (active and passive)

[obtuse lichen]

But ranger has crossbow specialisation

In fact rangers can use both but mostly specialise in 1 type crossbow or bow

It will be fun to see different playstyles on the ranger instead of typical longbow users

[lone crescent]

Special arrows as items? No, it will force the devs to rebalance the class and bow from 0.
Special arrows as active skill? Sure why not

[obtuse lichen]

You are not listening

[lone crescent]

Yes you said a weaker arrow with poison or fire, so a useless arrow if it deals less damage or a broken arrow if it deals more

[obtuse lichen]

facepalm

[lone crescent]

I mean the ranger damage is already fien like it is and it shouldn't be changed

[obtuse lichen]

how something that can deal slightly more damage is broken
in fact fire arrows will be really effective against cleric instant heal since they deal damage over time even with the same damage

Poison arrows as well they might force to use cleanse more

[lone crescent]

Ranger damage is hughe already, he doesn't need stronger arrows

[obtuse lichen]

By using your own logic i can say that using the bow with 5 more damage will be broken as well that means we need to remove all bows and random rolls

[robust bison]

that's the only point on why use it, u can't use multi/triple shot, true shot u can shoot once before it decay, twice if u have a bit of buff duration

[lone crescent]

If its a skill yeah why not, as an item no

Imagine quickshot with poison stacking for example

[obtuse lichen]

Imagine that you have debuff duration -% bonus or cleric on your team

[lone crescent]

What if you use a +5 dmg bow with a stronger arrow? Lol how's that the same thing

[obtuse lichen]

Did you read everything that i typed or nah?

You are contradicting yourself rn

[lone crescent]

I did, but i know for sure that the class is already strong enough and it doesn't need better arrows.

The only way to keep balanced in my opinion is through active skill, like your next X arrows will have poison/fire

[obtuse lichen]

It doesn't makes it stronger it just adds more options with proper balancing

Also as i said crossbow should get special projectiles first to see how it goes

[lone crescent]

I really dislike the idea of special arrows as items

[obtuse lichen]

why not
it's somewhat is punishment for rangers because they will have less slots in inventory and also special arrows will have smaller stack

Mage and cleric already gets 5 more spells with 1 skill why not allow ranger to have more options

Imo some classes should be complex and some should be simple to learn but overall +- counter each other in combat

[lone crescent]

Why it can't be like mage and cleric? 1 skill slot = special arrows,, that's fair

[obtuse lichen]

Thats great idea as well sacrifing 1 skill slot for special arrows usage

That means they will have 1 skill + 1 special arrow memory

[lone crescent]

Yes that's what I'm saying from beginning

[obtuse lichen]

Not really unless i misunderstood it

[lone crescent]

I like special arrows concept, just not as items

[lone crescent]

.

[obtuse lichen]

for some reason for me it feels like as items it will be more balanced because they will be hard to obtain and loosable in combat

A bit more arrows management never hurts

[lone crescent]

For me they just need to prevent activation of both special arrows and quickshot

[obtuse lichen]

Quickshot isn't going to be strong on fire arrows

on poison arrows mb but it all depends on who you are facing against

Frost arrows as well since its just different type of the damage and they are really rare to find

Also special arrows cannot be collected back as well

Especially frost and fire arrow
Because first arrow breaks and second just burns itself

[granite plinth]

Arrows are a physical object and I believe ironmace always wanted them to be an item, it wasn’t just a balance decision. Special arrows would likely be the same for the same reason. Would be awesome to see some in game though.

[lone crescent]

I mean they could still add something to apply poison on arrows as skill or something like that for every type of areow

[placid canopy]

Eventually they're gonna make damage types matter so it could just go into that heavily. Fire arrow could just convert all your damage to fire or something

Or maybe special arrows are akin to named items and they literally just explode in an aoe on contact

Nobody even knows what they're gonna do so arguing power doesn't make sense

Also the skill tree system is probably gonna fully break balance everywhere again

[obtuse lichen]

✅

[autumn flare]

Would be awesome to see some mechanic like you can stick an arrow in zombie/spider corpse to make it poisoned or already loaded arrow to torch to make it flaming for a moment.

That would add some more tactic element to positional fights, a little buff for rangers and not complicate the arrow system too much

[lone crescent]

Honestly i prefer some kind oil as skill, even if i know that it will be some kind of weird gesture and a magic aura around arrows like rupture

[autumn flare]

Also good idea, im not a fan of adding million types of arrows to the game so you can't collect full stack of any kind.

but the problem with upgrading arrows ability is that, everyone will take 3heals and an offensive ability anyway

Some perk allowing you to do something with arrows would be better and more playable

[lone crescent]

Well most classes have a lot of useless skills, the game is still unbalanced and (for now) devs have no interest in balance

Would be cool to add a third mini skill slot to fit stuffs like caltrops, smoke and other weak skills

I mean one dedicated only to worst skills to make them useful

[blazing crypt]

Like a utility skill? Something that would give a slight edge without being a full on skill. Could be neat

[fierce relic]

replace double jump for mandatory rogue perk that makes them take tick dmg whenever they are in line of sight of any player that is not in their team. i dont want to see them in my games. ❤️