suggestion-discussion

[ripe haven]

I always try to put my base gear junk into treasure chests and close them before other humans find the boxes.

[grizzled halo]

For this to be a thing. all classes need to be able to destroy doors with enough effort. and not just barbs

[inner thorn]

Well you can make yolo move using npc skeleton who oneshot doors

[grizzled halo]

There will be alot of times where a few locked doors mean death

[inner thorn]

But anyway then need some doors to be locked like chests from the start and it shoud be randomised

Because super obvious that you need to find rogue if door locked then

[inner thorn]

Well put lockpick for 20g in traders inv

[grizzled halo]

then they lock the next door

[ripe haven]

You can destroy a door with different weapons. It just sucks if you're a smash less barb

[grizzled halo]

Really? i tried to hit a door 10 times fighter axe

[ripe haven]

Which axe

[grizzled halo]

battle axe

[real trellis]

Wiz can fireball a door but aside from that idk if other classes can break them

[grizzled halo]

Fighter with the named shield can reflect a fireball onto it as well!

[real trellis]

I really doubt it, otherwise it wouldn't be a perk on barb

[real trellis]

That's a reach, and in that case so can cleric

[inner thorn]

Some weapons are bugged and dont do damage to staff, like its impossible to break vials with some weapons. Probably a bug

[turbid ermine]

I mean nightmare skellies have the funny shield, something like that for players would break the game tho

[gloomy cradle]

Can I edit my suggestion to say "Smarter Wizard Hats" instead of "More Wizard Hats"??

[coral stratus]

look at the make-suggestion channel, there is a list of commands, one is edit i believe

also upvote my suggestion 😛

[gloomy cradle]

I think that might just add more content to the message instead of changing it

You know what idc Ill try it. Science time

[coral stratus]

science? we wizzing out here

[gloomy cradle]

.edit 1664487 SMARTER WIZARD HATS!!!

[eager sable]

This command has been disabled on this server

[gloomy cradle]

oof doesn't work at all it seems

[coral stratus]

HO HO, what a jest

[gloomy cradle]

You should type "in: d-and-d-suggestions pipe" in the search engine and upvote the earlier pipe suggestions for solidarity

[coral stratus]

ah great minds think alike, just upvoted my predecessors

[mossy venture]

#d-and-d-suggestions message congrats on green light

[gloomy cradle]

@dry tusk consecutive escapes?

[dry tusk]

Yes, should reset on death. Fear the wizard tripping on their beard/hat.

[boreal elbow]

@dry tusk just curious, what do you not like about my skull key idea? (Asking for feedback)

[dry tusk]

unless they changed it, skull key can open a room in first floor in the last playtest. Meant to hit Hmm and not downvote.

[boreal elbow]

That's the gold key, the skull key is an even rarer item that opens a door in the B3 highroller dungeon that gives pisspoor loot, so it could really use a rework

[mental lance]

Who downvoted this #d-and-d-suggestions message

[wanton kestrel]

Me

[mental lance]

Explain your reasoning

[dry tusk]

OHshit, then i was entirely wrong.

[boreal elbow]

The dungeons all consist of compact rooms, tight corridors, monsters blocking exits and doors connecting every room module. What would be the point of having ridable mounts when the there is only enough room to walk around?

[boreal elbow]

Not to mention, how do you even implement mounts in a permadeath setting? Do you lose the mounts when you die? How do they get in the dungeons? What purpose do they serve for the balance of the game?

@faint dirge I would like to ask you what you don't like about the skull key rework idea that you downvoted (asking for feedback)

[faint dirge]

Too much work
Just buff the skull key loot

[brittle jasper]

small pack mule for carrying loot, small nuff to fit in doors, slow and annoying to command so it makes you a major target to being attacked

Honestly its an interesting (but not good) idea to make the mule require its own exit portal so you have to pick to send the mule through to secure the loot but risk yourself or abandon the mule to escape yourself

mind you at this point the idea is not for a mount but a mule i think i went wrong on that but the idea is great (it would get downvoted on suggestions)

you would have to lead the mule by the reins and would move slow while doing so being unable to jump or crouch making you unable to use certain paths and near unable to flee from pvp with mule in tow

[gloomy cradle]

maybe in 6 years when we got massive 64 player maps

[gloomy cradle]

.shortinfo 1664799

[eager sable]

Suggestion from Pootzataja#7721

is it possible to make a training room similar to the one in lobby, but its offline singleplayer with 1 blue portal in room just to check combos, spells and weapon dmg, also would be fun to equip your own armor to the doll to check defense of your gear.

Opinion:

+2

Suggestions Feed Post

[Suggestions Feed Post](#d-and-d-suggestions message)

Suggestion ID: 1664799 | Submitted at · Mar 18, 2023, 6:27 PM

[gloomy cradle]

The only PvE mode I'll upvote

[lone crescent]

.shortinfo 1664603

[eager sable]

Suggestion from Floof#7763

Toggle which side is your Off-hand.
Would love to full fill my dream of being a lefty in a high fantasy setting.

Opinion:

+12

Suggestions Feed Post

[Suggestions Feed Post](#d-and-d-suggestions message)

Suggestion ID: 1664603 | Submitted at · Mar 18, 2023, 4:24 PM

Protip: You can invite Suggester to your server here

[lone crescent]

This can never happen it gives you an advantage in game by changing you attack pattern

[shy orbit]

Yeah if you want an advantage for being left-handed, play baseball

(I realize they don't want to be left-handed for the advantage, just for its own sake)

[gloomy cradle]

All is fair in love and war

[lone crescent]

It's not the same, in sports you can't use right hand if you are left handed, in game if you character is right handed it doesn't change anything.
I'm ok with left handed weapons but they does it in games where your 3d animation doesn't match the first person animation, like in fps.
If they mirror everything and you are the only one seeing it it's ok, but in this game your 1st person animation and your character model are sincronized

[white cliff]

Me, thanks for pointing it out.

Reasoning, 1 blocked message.

[mental lance]

dragon mounts

[graceful frost]

Everyone lmao

Go play fortnite or terraria if you want mounts.

[crimson flax]

Why would you even need a mount in Dark and Darker

[graceful frost]

Idek

[ripe haven]

Maybe for 1F

[lone crescent]

I guess for 1F you can run straight and be in B1 in a minute or less if you wanna skip it

[atomic mountain]

Unless they plan on allowing matchmaking to fill Forgotten Castle, they will likely make Ruin easy to go down from at a higher ratio than F.C.

[mental lance]

i want flying mounts in DaD

[atomic mountain]

Weak bait. You’ll get more action from #the-tavern

[warm spoke]

Did you see the gargoyls in the red dungeon?

[hoary oriole]

what does it mean when the suggestion turns green?

[warm spoke]

probably to do with number of upvotes

[hoary oriole]

yeah but once it gets there then what

[atomic mountain]

Nothing. Just indicates it’s been upvoted well.

[quaint sentinel]

so something that popped into my head was a way to enchant weapons is after you have managed to get out of a dungeon run say like 10/20 times in a row with the same weapon u can take it to the holiday npc to buff/enchant stats/ effects for candy or for gold with a chance to get a curse instead ex. -20 hp or -5 movement cursed weapons' cant be unequipped / dropped but can be looted and get cleansed when you exit the run with them also the ability to name weapons for 30 gold 30/ 1 candy per letter

[ripe haven]

I'm 100% for leftys being lefty. It is essential for good mixup and especially for diversity

[ripe haven]

I saw the centaur and a big thing that kinda looked like a gargoyle. Idk wat it was I turned around, closed a door and left. Where is the gargoyle?

[atomic mountain]

In hell, big room with a high ceiling
Most unnerving sound they make too
They come down from the darkness
Just picture a demon bat crossed with a kangaroo that can judo kick your ass across the room

[ripe haven]

I was killed by that once. I have seen the gargoyle

I thought it was a really bad harpy lol

[atomic mountain]

I hate them, but it feels like killing someone who was talking shit so it’s rewarding af lol

[atomic mountain]

.shortinfo 1663636

[eager sable]

Suggestion from Reznika#9455

Split HP off into a Constitution stat, currently Strength is overwhelmingly the best stat because it gives flat physical damage as well as HP, meaning everyone wants it no matter their class.

Opinion:

+69

Suggestions Feed Post

[Suggestions Feed Post](#d-and-d-suggestions message)

Suggestion ID: 1663636 | Submitted at · Mar 18, 2023, 1:24 AM

[atomic mountain]

I’m honestly surprised this got upvoted, but maybe I shouldn’t be

[mental lance]

There's a reason every rpg in existence splits hp into its own stat

[ripe haven]

Strength always has an auxiliary modifier going for it, so what would you swap health out for? More hurty? Faster movement? One handing 2h weapons?

[mental lance]

armor pen

[atomic mountain]

Primary attributes or Core-Stats have always been structured so that they are never completely useless for any specific class.

You are referring to hp as a secondary stat. Some games do that, but not all of them lol. If we make hp a secondary stat, what will strength offer a non-melee user?

[mental lance]

weapon damage is still useful for magic and ranged users

[acoustic wasp]

Constitution should definitely exist as a stat

[atomic mountain]

The argument made by the suggestion is that strength is too strong because “everyone wants it no matter their class”
Guess that wouldn’t be true for Constitution 🤓

[abstract swallow]

The arguments over stat-splitting are largely premature, especially when Resourcefulness and Knowledge are so underdeveloped.

[acoustic wasp]

Of course con would still be a worthwhile stat, but I think the argument in that suggestion is more that strength is just easily the best stat by far in the game, boosting damage + health in a single stat is pretty cracked, and having a constitution stat would help balance out this a bit more, it would also give flexibility to the devs in terms of balancing classes.

[atomic mountain]

If we want Constitution, are we going to also want Stamina bars and have Strength affect carry capacity? (Which are typical uses in D&D)
Sure, there’s a bunch if different schools of thought and design choices Ironmace can make for Attributes and Secondary Stats.
But I don’t agree that Strength being Phys dmg and HP makes it the most OP stat in the game.

[faint dirge]

Its not weapon damage its percentage physical damage, huge difference
Also agility is extremely good for every class

[atomic mountain]

Exactly. Just leave it for now

[acoustic wasp]

That’s what I meant mb I’ll correct it

[abstract swallow]

Another good reason to ignore stat-splitting as a topic rn is because we don't know if there will be any form of stat investment in the Talent system, and if stat scaling itself will change in the future (which it almost certainly will since we've seen almost every single form of attribute-based scaling change or get completely reworked thus far)

[atomic mountain]

Yeah great point and that’s why I’m surprised that so many people want to see a change made. I just don’t see a glaring problem that would warrant a change to be made this early on

[abstract swallow]

mostly due to Rage/Barb's 30 starting STR, which is why I've been a big proponent of making power scaling on stats work on a curve

[atomic mountain]

Agility has 4 applications
Strength has 2
Knowledge and Resourcefulness kinda suck right now
But lets advocate for changing Strength cus it’s a problem?
Sorry, i don’t see it 😅

[faint dirge]

Agility is way too good rn

[atomic mountain]

If anything is…it’s Agility.

[abstract swallow]

Agi is, in fact, the godstat
anyone who says otherwise has failed a skill check

[atomic mountain]

Knowledge and resourcefullness are bare bones right now because they planned to introduce more things for them to be more useful, but who knows what will happen

[abstract swallow]

both KNW and RSC are reliant on additional items and dungeon crawling mechanics that aren't fully present yet, let alone fully realized
once we've got stuff like weight, durability, item identification, traps, scrolls, wands, etc then they'll all make a lot more sense

[atomic mountain]

Yeah I maybe at that point it would make sense for HP to become a secondary stat unaffected by any attribute. Or introduce a new base attribute that gives hp and something else too. But now? Eh nty

[abstract swallow]

could work in the future, especially if strength has a good interaction with a weight/equipload system
it'd be nice to get debuff resistance off WIL and put it on a new stat

[atomic mountain]

I think people are just bored.
A lot of the best ideas have already been suggested, and the one’s that have been repeated and do well give peeps a false sense of confidence in their other positions

[ripe haven]

My argument is that classes are all pre built anyways. Whether strength provides HP or it is moot because it's how the devs intend for the class anyways. Now, if we are allowed to start putting points somewhere, then yes, a dedicated hp stat would be essential. With how play test four was, if that's how the classes and stats are going to work, there is no point to having constitution, because it would be a lateral movement.

[amber solstice]

It wouldn't be a lateral movement at all. It actually nerfs people that benefit from the phys dmg bonus. Not only does it make those that don't benefit from the phys dmg bonus stronger outright, it also makes them stronger by comparison. Phys DPS classes have to choose dmg or hp while having a slightly lower chance of str in general now, while wizard/cleric just choose hp. Do you double the effects for str and constitution to compensate? That buffs all attributes and also gives players higher phys dps and/or higher hp in general.

[atomic mountain]

.shortinfo 1665645

[eager sable]

Suggestion from Dark and Dolan#0885

[Fix ladder climbing (bug?).

Not sure if it’s a bug, but currently ladders can be touchy and non-intuitive in how they need to be traversed.
(Rapidly repeating collision that prevents jumping)

Please make the player model interact more reliably with them 🙂 ]

Suggestions Feed Post

[Suggestions Feed Post](#d-and-d-suggestions message)

Suggestion ID: 1665645 | Submitted at · Mar 19, 2023, 3:40 AM

[atomic mountain]

Just threw this up as it didn’t seem like anyone made this suggestion yet

[amber solstice]

What's your issue with them? You want them easier to climb?

[atomic mountain]

I just want to eliminate the rapidly repeating collision part.
I’m not suggesting a change on the spacing of ladder rungs or anything

[abstract swallow]

ladders are insanity to try to climb
I've legit seen people run autohotkey scripts to get up them better

[graceful frost]

Not even that it’s just weird? Also read the suggestion lol. I mean it’s absurd trying to climb sometimes your glitches mid air or bounce off randomly. Doesn’t feel hard or at least for the right reason just feels buggy

[amber solstice]

Do you have an example of your repeated collision? I honestly never had an issue shooting up the ladder after my first few attempts.

[atomic mountain]

I don’t want to be “easier” per-say
Just reliable

[ripe haven]

Fair. I think this would be more compelling to me if we could affect stat growth in some way (maybe similar to season 1 LoL masteries but for the character stats)

[graceful frost]

“A few attempts” exactly you should be able to do it first try if you are good at it not have it buggy or weird

[atomic mountain]

Let me see if I can find a video that expresses what I mean

[ripe haven]

MMR is the devil. Auction houses are the devil. Battle passes are the devil.

[graceful frost]

Preach

[atomic mountain]

https://youtube.com/shorts/5KNGK2uoqrg?feature=share

This is a short that showcases the issue
If you hold W while trying to jump, it creates a collision that prevents you from jumping and can also make you fall off the ladder

[amber solstice]

I used to remote desktop people to wall jump them places in WoW, so I'm pretty well versed in tedious jumping lol. I just never had an issue after a minute or two of learning how to jump up DnDers ladders. I never rubberbanded or anything like that though.

Just jump+tap, repeat and you zip up it. You aren't supposed to hold W the whole time.

[ripe haven]

Elo hell is real because no dev can get the formula just right. The more nuance and complexity to math formula in conjunction with an algorithm to detect events which cannot be calculated appropriately will always end up marginalizing some groups of players somewhere they don't belong. Like team MMR vs individual MMR for an example.

[atomic mountain]

Sure, but that also has a small window that can still be subject to a collision which screws with the timing.

[graceful frost]

Yeah along with every ranked system also having terrible flaws too that never get fixed. That’s why I’m really excited for this game too. Doubt there will be any stupid ranked or anything. Along with that it’s a team game but is still based on solo skill weather you live since you can still run and survive.

[ripe haven]

I'd also add that MMR wouldn't work for this game mechanically speaking. Sometimes a skeleton kicks your ass within ten seconds of spawn. Sometimes a blue or a green party are just going to steam roll you. It's the extremes bros.

[atomic mountain]

Alternatively, ladders could just be made to be an intractable object. Ladders are best climbed with 4 limbs, not jumping from one rung to another 😅

[amber solstice]

Elo hell exists because playing simply doesn't make everyone better.

[graceful frost]

Also how are you supposed to get better gear? Any what happens with matchmaking when you have full uniques

[abstract swallow]

MMR is the wrong solution because it's trying to address the wrong kind of problem
creating more granular content, better balance, and encouraging proper self-selection into appropriate content gets us closer to solving the source of the MMR complaints

[amber solstice]

A lot of people don't know that PvE exists in this game and just want 3v3 arenas.

[atomic mountain]

I feel like it’s pretty well established that the majority of people don’t want a standard MMR system in this game. I just downvote and keep it pushing
(Plus they’re doing a self-selecting soft mmr with HR fees. Works ok imo)

[ripe haven]

Those same ass hats down voted my suggestion about glorious PvP gladiator arenas

[atomic mountain]

I think that got downvoted because it had rewards or wagering in the suggestion as well right?

[ripe haven]

Instead of MMR, there should be a performance based rating, which I'm coining as PBR. An MMR tries to calculate basic stats such as kills, deaths, DPS, etc.

While those are all well and good, they just don't calculate what matters: spell usage, hit/accuracy%, map coverage, chest/door touching...the things you can do before that first skeleton kills you, would make for a better rating system. Simply doing things for either quantity or quality, whether or not you do them well, that's what this game needs to keep track of.

If the skeleton does kill you, how many hits did you actually land? THATS PBR. MMR would say you suck. PBR would say, okay you hit him three times and swang 4 times. 75% accuracy rating.

[amber solstice]

Good luck calculating that and preventing cheesing and smurfing.

Oh yeah, just plug it into the algorithm.

[atomic mountain]

I like the self selecting system that they have going on right now. Perhaps they’ll flesh it out more and implement more tiers as they introduce more maps and levels

[ripe haven]

Have you ever red portaled? Did you move through more than two doors? Great, here's some PBR

What makes building up a higher PBR over an MMR is performance, not successfulness.

If a solo fights a party, and dies, MMR says you suck bro. But PBR would say, okay he took three sources of damage and hit each of them once.

[atomic mountain]

I prefer the self selecting system that they have because if I want to just chill and not try I don’t have to worry about
“oh but dang I am a 5 star and I’ll have to sweat or I’m going to have a bad time”

[ripe haven]

Yea the MMR we currently have is great: normal or high roller.

[atomic mountain]

Maybe at some point it would make sense if the player base is large enough to garner a split between ranked and unranked

[ripe haven]

Well the thing is, with algorithms holding up a performance based rating, you don't need ranked and unranked.

[atomic mountain]

That’s my (second) main gripe with Hunt: Showdown. You don’t have a choice. It’s all ranked all the time.
And you don’t even have to try hard to get five stars lol. But once you do get ready to sweat or die

[amber solstice]

Ranked is for fair games to prevent casuals from getting dumpstered too hard and if esports is your marketing budget.

[atomic mountain]

And typically ranked playlist also come with some kind of reward like rocket league. But if you just wanna chill or do goofy stuff with your friends you can choose to play unranked. And i like having that choice, diff day=diff mood

[amber solstice]

Yeah, each variable just makes any sort of matchmaking terrible and the game is made entirely of random variables to make the game more exciting.

Trying a new build? Playing with new teammates? Using new weapons? Good luck.

The devs could go literally every direction and make an amazing game with the core that they have. It's pretty insane.

[atomic mountain]

Exacto. The cars in rocket league are extremely similar stat wise.
Hunt: Showdown? Kill one 6 star cus you got lucky and he made a mistake, boom you’re now a 5 star and will be facing 5/6 stars till you die. 🥴

[stark anchor]

Same issue with the cycle, but in a different way.

Doing well into solos? Time to match you into duos lol

honestly, sbmm does not make any sense for extraction games imo. the gameplay is too volatile to try and make fair matches

[atomic mountain]

I’m all for them putting in an offline, one level, zero reward, no stash option for those reasons. New player, teaching someone new, experimenting etc.

[ripe haven]

And network outages

[atomic mountain]

I mean I wouldn’t say that it doesn’t make sense entirely. Because HR is sort of a self-selecting version of this and people would rather have it than not.
But I think it would be better for them to collect data and establish a need based on player volume and behavior rather than make a change based on a prediction that ends up hurting the game

[dusky field]

Do people think insulting is cool or why would they want to take out the chat filter?

[crimson flax]

Some people can't operate without the potty mouth

[atomic mountain]

Swears are not even filtered, but slurs are 😅

[crimson flax]

Yeaaaaaa

[amber solstice]

How's my grandma supposed to buy this game for me if people can use bad words?

[boreal elbow]

Well obviously you wack her over the head with a frying pan and use her debit card to buy the game, duh

[crimson flax]

True

[real trellis]

.shortinfo 1665645

[eager sable]

Suggestion from Dark and Dolan#0885

[Fix ladder climbing (bug?).

Not sure if it’s a bug, but currently ladders can be touchy and non-intuitive in how they need to be traversed.
(Rapidly repeating collision that prevents jumping)

Please make the player model interact more reliably with them 🙂 ]

Opinion:

+10

Suggestions Feed Post

[Suggestions Feed Post](#d-and-d-suggestions message)

Suggestion ID: 1665645 | Submitted at · Mar 19, 2023, 3:40 AM

[real trellis]

I don't think ladders are INTENDED to be climbable or at least not easily climbed. The current method of climbing them definitely feels like an exploit lol

[atomic mountain]

Nah, they are definitely meant to be climbed 😅

[turbid ermine]

Some clearly are, the one in treasury even has a loot item up there, just don't get on the lamp

[dusky field]

Honestly, it's like people need to show how uncivilized they are

[graceful frost]

They are clearly meant to be able to be climbed lol

[mossy oasis]

Your grandmother probably lived in a """better"""" time where as you could use bad words "however" you wanted without SJW coming your way. But yea its an interesting topic about swear words. Some words are obvious to censor meanwhile others are not.

[ripe haven]

Free speech isn't without personal responsibility and consequences. Don't listen to someone you don't want to, but unless someone is actively threatening your life or property, in my American opinion, they have every right to speak stupid.

[tight gale]

When are monkeys getting added to the game?

[ripe haven]

Winged death monkeys from wizard of Oz would be cool

[atomic mountain]

https://youtu.be/QHkM_zXWDac

I commented on this video my idea regarding MMR and the new player experience. Let me know what y’all think so I can avoid the wall of text here.
Also credit to @ripe haven for the offline idea foundation.

[ripe haven]

Loot/gear value is a performance based rating just sayin. Having inventory tied to a kind of MMR wouldn't be a bad idea, but I really despise the phrase "MMR". No safe pockets, pls.

I wouldn't want to stop noob stomps. And of course, as a noob, nothing would give me a greater thrill then slaughtering a purple with my barb friend. We did that a couple times.

[warm spoke]

High roller is the geared lobbies so MMR already exist

[atomic mountain]

Did you go read the comment i made on that video @ripe haven ?

[ripe haven]

Oh I listened to the video and threw my phone in anger during the second half. I'll go read it now lol

I'll dm you my knee jerk reaction

[ripe haven]

Es muy bueno

[bitter forge]

mmr ruins the game.

[atomic mountain]

Yeah I don’t think anybody here is debating that 😅
I mainly wanted to share my idea (seen in the comment section of that video) that address why I think MMR is the wrong answer to the right question

[ripe haven]

Oh hey...you know how base kit items can't be stashed (because cleric might build up bandages etc)?

Well QoL idea, maybe those base kit armors and weapons disappear when you equip new/better items from your stash?

Kind of annoying having to throw grey gear garbage away, you either sell it at the merchant or have to drop it in game. Idk, is that something that anyone else finds annoying?

[atomic mountain]

It is, but I just sell them for 0g to merchant

[ripe haven]

Gnarly

[crimson flax]

Oh nah bro used SJW in 2023 in a convo about swears

[ripe haven]

Should back pedaling be slower than moving forward ?

[atomic mountain]

Should it or is it?
Yes to both

[crimson flax]

Yes, it should

[dusky field]

Agree, public speech should be as free to say whatever stupid or, consequently, insulting stuff that you want. But in other places I wish it was restricted so that being an ass was punishable. For all it's flaws, the one thing Overwatch did right was having a pneumatic hammer on the ban button. You could say "gl hf" without people thinking themselves funny

Also, this is my daily crying about health-potion-stacking and how much I hate that mechanic and how much I hope they take it out and put other pre-fight preparation items instead.

[brittle jasper]

im with with a swear censore as long as i can turn it off

[amber solstice]

That video is the embodiment of what's wrong with most suggestions. All charisma no knowledge.

[ripe haven]

Elaborate on the pneumatic hammer

[dusky field]

It goes BRRRRR and it bans people when they're annoying or insulting just because they find it funny or edgy

[ripe haven]

Interesting. Not sure I like it tho.

[dusky field]

Fair enough, I know it's not for everyone. But I always appreciated being able to wish people a good game before a match without someone feeling they'd pull a funny and original joke

[ripe haven]

A poll system occurs after the suggestion system, obviously.

[thick widget]

When is kratos added as a boss?

[dusky field]

I wanna give two thumbs up to the "remove suggestions and add a poll system" one

[graceful frost]

You can have poles without removing the suggestions

[atomic mountain]

Ignore the video, look at me.
What about my idea?!

[devout blade]

U can’t stash starter kit consumables

[ripe haven]

Right.

But the garbage shield can be stashed for some reason. I'm saying I need a trash can for my greys

[outer niche]

so you do want them to be "easier" ?

[atomic mountain]

#suggestion-discussion message

[outer niche]

what you described is the epitome of easy

ladders have a skill aspect to them currently that arent even that hard to master, i dont see a point in making something noob friendly that doesnt effect the game majorly anyway

[atomic mountain]

Alternatively is the keyword you’re glossing over. It was a side-thought. Not my submitted suggestion.

Read more, type less ☺️ (respectfully)

[ripe haven]

Ladders should be simple. Not complex parkour acrobats. Have you ever used a ladder irl? You grab it and it works. In dad, I have to twist, rotate and swivel my head to grab a ladder. Why? It's a ladder.

[outer niche]

thats the beauty of it

[ripe haven]

Even dark souls has a ladder button bro. Ladders do not need to be complex.

[outer niche]

this aint dark souls though and your just eliminating something that has to be skilled rather than simply pressing a button

[ripe haven]

You want some complexity in a ladder? Sure, put your weapons away and use both hands. Ladders should not require Konami codes in order to grab them.

[outer niche]

i struggle to believe anyone finds ladders this hard in dd after 4 or 5 tries

[ripe haven]

It shouldn't take 4 or 5 tries, that's the point against ladder complexity

[outer niche]

i mean 4 or 5 tries overall, not per ladder...

[atomic mountain]

Another white name reductionist contrarian who tagged me a day after the convo was over because he thinks his super unique “deal with it” mentality somehow adds to the discussion.
Why do I still bother replying to these people 🤣

[ripe haven]

I've never struggled with a ladder in any video game until I played DaD. It's poor programming and it will likely be improved upon greatly. No need to keep ladders the same they are only going to get better.

[outer niche]

no need to mention my colour in such a sensitive time but if you give a suggestion expect some replies buddy

[atomic mountain]

Just go vote on the suggestion and keep it pushing bud, you’re obviously not trying to have a discussion. 😘

[outer niche]

i am ur just getting butthurt

youve started typing three times now just give it up

[atomic mountain]

Annoyed =/= butthurt 👍

2 out of 20 suggestions you made are green. That says it all. Good day sir

[ripe haven]

Hair styles ye or ne?

[atomic mountain]

Beard and eyebrow styles for my Wizard
Ye

[graceful frost]

How do you see all the suggestions you have made

[faint dirge]

in: d-and-d-suggestions phantomz

Search

[regal lotus]

you dont need either

[ripe haven]

You're right. I think I wanted to argue against MMR, and rather than present a polarized approach, I attempted to relegate the concept from the normal mmr nonsense into something i perceived to be more fitting

[ripe haven]

but did u see all the suggestions** I **made

[proud tinsel]

MMR or some kind of system will be put in place at some point. It will have to happen to get past a certain point of population. It will all be in the details but I'm not worried about it either way.

[graceful frost]

None?

[ripe haven]

dam that's cold bro

[graceful frost]

I doubt that. Doesn’t fit in this game it’s not like your normal battle royale apex or fortnite

[graceful frost]

I didn’t see any :p

[atomic mountain]

Plenty of games did well without complex SBMM systems. I don’t see them as inevitable or necessary.

[graceful frost]

Exactly

Like maybe you want more people cause a lot aren’t playing cause of getting sweeped but also it’s already a very hardcore game and I think if players don’t like that they will leave either way

[atomic mountain]

Sometimes they make the game better, and are done well. Other times the game would be better off without, or with a diff type of sbmm.

[ripe haven]

You have to search the word pallets

[graceful frost]

Especially with wipes you can always wait for a wipe. Many other games are like that. Yeah they have made games better but for a style where you bring in your own loot and to get better loot you kill people will better loot or mobs it doesn’t quite fit

[proud tinsel]

Wont matter at some point casuals are going to cry so much that they will have to do something or the game will never grow or even die.

[ripe haven]

Casuals can't cry tho they just sit there and giggle

You must be referring to those who would otherwise be cast into MMR ELO hell

[proud tinsel]

4 wipes a year is what we are thinking right? which means 12 days where it may be playable for a newb. I'm not saying I want one. I'm saying it will happen at some point.

[atomic mountain]

They should so something, I agree
That’s why I support
Test Mode for president

[proud tinsel]

I hope they do more frequent wipes. If progression is so slow that 3 months makes sense that will suck. If it does not and we're where we are now in a week and it takes us 2 or 3 it should still be a 1 month wipe maybe 2

[atomic mountain]

Offline mode similar to Diablo 2:R (but still allows grouping if servers aren’t down).
Let’s refer to this as Test Mode.
Separate characters from your main game characters. Able to be used offline when servers are down, or online with friends. You will load into a private instance where you or a party member is the host, and no enemy players are present. Only 1st floor available (no bosses, no hell). Loot tables are the same, but your character cannot access trading. Stash space is reduced to 1/4. Merchant use is reduced to collectibles, consumables and utility only. Dying, extracting, swarm, and lack info remains the same.

[proud tinsel]

I think they should do that for sure. I don't think that will stop newbs from crying when they are starting naked and a guy who started a day before is in full purps wrecking them. I really see no way that they don't implement something. You can't just leave half your player base out and keep servers going or grow the base with tons of negative comments.

[atomic mountain]

I haven’t submitted this as a suggestion yet. Still want to get more feedback and refine it if possible.

[mental lance]

Seems like it would take a lot of development time

[ripe haven]

Imo no stash, and only one offline character allowed.

[atomic mountain]

They started the entire game in Aug of last year, and made Goblin Caves mode in 2 1/2 weeks so, prob not
@mental lance

[ripe haven]

They just sit there and program all night all day and all week long

[atomic mountain]

It’s a testing ground, why limit to one character/class?

[ripe haven]

No it's an offline mode that people can use for testing I thought we were best friends bro is this how it ends? Over semantics?

[atomic mountain]

Lol “I have changed the terms of the agreement. Pray I do not alter them further”

[warm spoke]

if the userbase is 1+ million people i doubt there needs to be 2x as many lobbies being hosted just to bring "noobs" into the game.

Save the badly coded npc mechanics and gradually improve them upon release as users get acustom to the combat mechanics

[rancid pebble]

I need kobolds

[ripe haven]

Kobold pets or kobold mobs

[rancid pebble]

Mobz, but we can have a cages kobold in the tavern 😈

[proud tinsel]

Kobolds would be awesome.

[white cliff]

This deals getting worse all the time.

[fiery ledge]

Wish they'd expand on the skeletons a little bit. Like, give them a "fire" source inside their body somewhere that acts as the visible thing keeping them alive/animated from a lore perspective.

[amber solstice]

Did people cry for MMR in the early Escape from Tarkov days? I guess the biggest difference is Tarkov lacks swarm and forced death. So newbies can wait, avoid, and survive. Everyone being able to live makes a huge difference. The way scavs evolved into more and more newbie friendly is also interesting way of doing it. Player scavs act as a kind of swarm mechanic.

[crimson flax]

good thing theyre never doing it

[graceful frost]

I think 3 month wipes is an awful idea

[atomic mountain]

If I were you guys, I’d focus more on making suggestions that help offer a sense of progression from wipe to wipe, rather than how often they’re going to happen 💁‍♂️

[graceful frost]

Not helpful. The devs aren’t rlly lookin in here anyway lol

also you could focus on making suggestions instead of just policing 🤷

[amber solstice]

3 months is better than the 6 months I'm used to with Tarkov.

[graceful frost]

I think 1 month or 2 is more than enough. Unless there are big changes to the system cause currently it is so easy to fill stash and get like almost maxed

[amber solstice]

But anyone in here talking about stuff is probably in the top 5% of the playerbase. We'd all love faster wipes but that generally doesn't appeal to the average user.

I guess it depends on if every 3 months they are rolling out new major content. If it's just wipe with nothing new, it'll get old to the people that enjoy new stuff and the core gameplay loop isn't enough for them. But I imagine 3 months of work, release it with a wipe, rinse and repeat.

[graceful frost]

Also 3 months of no changes can easily get bland for a lot of ppl but idk

[atomic mountain]

Debating when a wipe should happen is helpful how? It’s going to be a thing. How often will not be determined based on our opinions, it’ll be about data.

Currently there is no sense of progression between wipes other than leaderboards, which is equivalent to “not much”.

And I do contribute with a high ratio of positively received, unique suggestions. What I don’t do is crowd the airways with white noise topics or suggestions that have been made or talked to death.
It’s not helpful 🤷‍♂️

[amber solstice]

I just hope they don't tarkov questing and make it so you have to play basically the entirety of the game in unimaginably unfun ways each wipe.

[graceful frost]

All I said is I don’t care that it’s not helpful and 99 percent of the stuff said in here is not helpful and the devs won’t look at it. Also your not discussing anything or making a single suggestion just policing ppl tryna talk. Oh yes imma say that they aren’t contributing to anything. Mf look at what your doing, sitting around not discussing anything but ohhhh your not being helpful

[atomic mountain]

What you’re essentially doing by debating when a wipe should happen:
“Hey how often should we replace the tires on this car? Oh it doesn’t have turn signals? Meh I don’t care about em anyways”

I’m policing because you keep bringing up nonsense and it’s exhausting. Maybe you aren’t very self aware. We’re all that person sometimes.

You just put up a “Don’t do MMR”suggestion like it’s a brand new take lol
It’s not dude, it’s just noise, and I’m sorry if the truth hurts

And please don’t act like you’ve never policed anyone’s take in this Discord 😅

[amber solstice]

I don't even read the suggestions unless they come here and ask for feedback.

[atomic mountain]

You never gave me feedback when I asked you! Confirmed liar! 🤣

[amber solstice]

I never said I gave feedback to everyone that asked me for it. I just don't slog through the pits of suggestion. I'd be happy to give feedback any time I'm around though.

[atomic mountain]

#suggestion-discussion message

Well chew this over. I haven’t refined it 100% yet so it’s un-submitted rn

[cursive kayak]

No offline mode

[atomic mountain]

Ok, it has now been deleted 👍

[devout blade]

You say that but people still play Tarkov everyday😅

[graceful frost]

Lmao. You act like I think I’m being deep with a don’t put mmr suggestion. I just put it up Lmao. I haven’t seen a single good point or nice suggestion from you. I haven’t seen you contributing a single god damn thing to anything. Your only ever doing this policing or tryna stop ppl from arguing about stuff instead of doing a single damn thing

[devout blade]

Why’re people beefing lol

[atomic mountain]

He’s mad cus I’m right about him being a noise-maker
If he was a comedian he’d be stealing jokes and getting mad at the audience for not laughing

[devout blade]

And I’m sure the game will get updated frequently, 3 months of no updates would be ridiculous considering how hard the team works, im sure they wouldn’t want to wait and bunch up a Lot of stuff considering how stuff needs to be tuned often

[amber solstice]

I'm 100% for offline mode in any form. My only reservation with party play in offline mode would be the extra work and/or server strain that it might cause. So that might be a very long term idea that might never get implemented. They have stated that they are going to do some sort of training room, it's just low priority, so basically any work that they have to do on it puts it out of reach for the foreseeable future.

I don't really see the point in restricting it to the 1st floor, limiting stash space, or merchant restrictions. Artificially limiting testing generally just widens the skill gap between elite and average players. Most games end up with some sort of creative/test center at some point or third parties figure how to do it. I do think that having it be it's own separate entity the same way Diablo 2:R has it would be great with saved character progression. The Tarkov method of no saved character progression and just copying your online character would be okay too. As long as there are no effects on live servers and people have freedom to do as they wish, it also gives players their full training ground without having to make one from scratch. Limiting offline solo and/or offline co-op to a more expensive copy of the game could be an interesting form of monetization as well.

[graceful frost]

In what way is me putting up something to see ppls opinion making noise Lmao. Have you seen there other dumb and stupid troll suggestions and noise making suggesitons? And your going off on me for tryna see what ppl think about no mmr lmfao? I don’t see how that’s noise making. Clearly more or less everyone agrees and nothing was really started cause of it

[atomic mountain]

Server strain I thought about, that’s why it’s hosted by the party leader
And I was thinking restrictions would encourage people to use it as a limited learning tool without it feeling as rewarding as the regular mode 🤔

[graceful frost]

If he was a discord mod he would… oh wait he is

[atomic mountain]

Peace and love @graceful frost
Sorry I upset you

[amber solstice]

There's only 18 suggestions that mention MMR and 4 that mention SBMM. Surely nobody reads the suggestion channel frequently enough to see that pop up more than once if at all...

[atomic mountain]

Do you think people would cry “P2W” if they released a Test/Offline Mode that was paid DLC?

[amber solstice]

Solo only and no other players should be enough restriction to get people to play the regular mode. If you want to play with your friends or other classes, straight to online. Want PvP? Straight to online. Want to trade? Believe it or not, straight to online.

I don't really think anyone that would complain about P2W would cry about it at all. No advantage on online servers at all. They'd probably be happy for the extra game funding or make fun of people that pay extra to remove PvP because they aren't hardcore enough to do/learn on live servers. There's not really anything to complain about.

[atomic mountain]

(There’s 17 mmr-type suggestions on the 1st of 4 pages that mention “matchmaking” btw. Not that I want to fight you, don’t hate me!)

[amber solstice]

Mine only shows 18 total, 1 page. Maybe it's because I haven't loaded it as far back as you have? lol

And I only searched for "MMR"

[atomic mountain]

Well the reason I thought a test mode allowing people to group up would be good is you (as a veteran) could help a friend learn in an interactive way. (Pressure free)
What do you think?

I do like the Test/Offline mode being paid DLC, but this might be a barrier to newer players too, and that’s part of why it’d be a great addition imo 🤔

Honestly I’d be happy with it just being a solo only learning tool like you’re describing too

[amber solstice]

I think co-op offline is a great idea in theory and for the playerbase in general. I just question anything that actually requires the devs to do any actual work that isn't advancing the main game until they are thoroughly satisfied with it. Restricting it to solo really forces you into the main game but gives you a safe haven when you want it. With co-op offline you also start the slippery slope of offline co-op only mains wanting changes and content and that sort of thing, which I don't think is a bad thing unless the devs don't want to deal with it or hear about it. They might even embrace that side of things at some point, just not any time soon.

[atomic mountain]

Yeah I agree I wouldn’t want them to take time away from injecting content in order to work on something that wouldn’t appeal to everyone. But I think some form of this would be important to have before full release in Q3/Q4.
And the heavy restrictions would discourage people from maining a Test/Offline mode no?
I guess some still would, even if there wasn’t a stash or it was limited, but that sounds boring af to most 😅

I guess people would treat it like a hard core mode
But if it was 1st floor only, how sad

[amber solstice]

It's more trying to exchange stuff that already exists like hell/stash/merchants for offline co-op that seems counter-intuitive.

[atomic mountain]

Exchange stuff? How do you mean?

[amber solstice]

You are saying take away hell/stash size/merchant inventory but add co-op.

[atomic mountain]

Yeah so restrict the gear and content progression feel, but retain the party player interaction, more or less

So it’s like an offline accessible training ground that you can use solo or with the homies

[amber solstice]

Bosses also have different mechanics in normal and high roller so being able to practice normal bosses isn't the craziest thing. Especially if they end up refilling each level as you go down. But additional layers of limitation on mechanics/systems that are already extremely limited just seems pretty pointless and doesn't really get people used to the game, if anything it might be slightly more offputting to some players. I'm all for offline in any form and offline co-op in any form. Co-op just seems like a much harder sell.

[atomic mountain]

Well I wasn’t envisioning a full experience mode. So the restrictions are there to encourage players to use the tool to learn and goof around, whilst the real progression and feel is preserved for the main mode.

I’d hope most would be satisfied with some version of a “Test Mode”. I agree, we all got them pesky biases tho, so the more caveats any suggestion has the harder of a sell it is 😅.
Thanks for the input Tank, it’s appreciated my dude

[amber solstice]

Yeah, it's really hard to find a suitable compromise that to get someone that is staunchly against it to agree. Sometimes there is no middle ground to be found.

I guess the better way of explaining my point is that co-op allows for a lot more of 'the game.' With co-op under your restrictions, you lose hell and some stash space. You gain a safe place to experience multi-class interactions and be able to PvP/duel with your friends. This is where people start having issues and complaining. Learning solo PvE safely is a lot different than learning PvP safely. Having no friendly fire would prevent PvP but be counter to online gameplay and possible force players away from online. A lot of little things to upset people that would generally be opposed to offline at all and a lot of little details that the devs would have to put some effort into at least thinking about, especially if people end up complaining about it. It would be awesome and an absolute blast for people that enjoy it. However, a simple copy+paste of current game into local hosted offline solo mode satisfies training room, minimizes dev effort, and gets rid of a lot of the complaints people might have with it.

Always happy to at least try and help.

[tawny lagoon]

This discussion reminds me of souls games controversy with coop and invasions, it is actually endless. Honestly I would feel fine about a no PvP experience as long as it does not replace the original one and there are incentives to play PvP

[iron fractal]

should be only for new players to go in with default gear and wont be able to extract shit.

[tight gale]

Like offline in tarkov

[deep steeple]

I disagree with the offline mode personally. As it is the game is already super easy PvE. If you let players practice with no stress then the game will be easily solved. Bosses are difficult not only because they are bosses but they are hard to get to in the first place due to other players. One week playtest and people are already farming the bosses. I hope they make the game way more difficult on release to keep players from feeling like they "beat the game" after rolling the bosses one week in.

[turbid ermine]

PvE ai will be improved. Specially how cheeseable some bosses are

[proud tinsel]

Beating PvE is not beating the game. You should never die to PvE and people need that practice. They will get it with no stress anyway because they can just go in naked. Also all of us have a big advantage over people who have not yet heard of the game. If you want the game to grow something like an offline or pve only mode needs to happen.

[deep steeple]

they can practice fighting PvE in normal lobbies, and if that's too much for newer players to handle then this prob isnt the game for them lol. I only joined in last playtest and I had no problems after the first day. Plus that's what the solo dungeon is for.

[proud tinsel]

Solo dungeon is way harder than normal castle imo and the opinion of everyone else I have heard talk about it. I don't accept your premise that there is a downside so its all upside. All they gain is knowledge. I don't think its the pve that is too much for new players to handle its people ganking nakeds that they should be worried about. You want new players to learn the game in a way that they are comfortable so they stay. If people dont stay not only have we lost that one player but we lose anyone who reads their negative comment.

[deep steeple]

but there's no risk to go into a game with default gear. you dont lose anything and you can do it as many times as you like. The fact you have starting gear makes it much more forgiving than hardcore games like Tarkov. Even if there is offline pve, they will still get ganked by people, its how the game was designed. Its an unforgiving dungeon crawler. All an offline PvE mode will do it allow players who are already good at the game to practice and farm bosses for good gear which would inflate the economy. Now a good compromise would probably be a small dungeon that's like a tutorial with maybe skeletons and that's it.

[proud tinsel]

Yes but it gives them confidence. No one I have seen has suggested giving anything past first floors so bosses are not the issue and are already easily soloed so I don't understand your argument. The best way to fight inflation to the economy is to GROW THE GAME. Which is what most of us want to do. You seem to want the opposite and are arguing for the opposite. The game can be hard core and still have a lot of players.

[white cliff]

I don’t understand the draw with a shallow PvE experience that people would ask for more resource allocation and development time; which would take away from main development.

It’s also just not a Diablo type game, there are so many other PvE dedicated games, I don’t see why this game needs to be like PvE games, or fornite, or Cod.

I like it because it’s unique and like nothing that exists.

I can see PvE being entertaining for maybe an hour and that’s it.

[deep steeple]

offline PvE would take away from the thrill of discovery. Do you risk gear to explore the labyrinth you've never been in? Do I risk gear to go to hell and take a look around? or do i just go into PvE mode and explore every spot in complete safety? For players who wouldn't stay becasue there is no PvE mode, do they really want to play this type of game? This game is about loss and risk and fear. Someone who can't take L's and try to get better isnt going to play this game long term no mater what.

[proud tinsel]

If you don't like it don't play it. Have both options so people can choose.

[white cliff]

Further I think the a lot of people want a fully developed mode. I’ve certainly never seen anyone claim they only want to practice the first floor; I’ve seen the opposite.

Also let’s not try to straw man the idea that not wanting PvE is “not wanting to grow the game, and gear inflation” because why shouldn’t the game be X different games at that point.

[white cliff]

What you’re asking for is a different game, why wouldn’t this game be an FPS, or PvP only. If you don’t like it don’t play it.

[proud tinsel]

Gear inflation is a bullshit argument

I'm not asking for anything, I'm advocating that there should be an offline mode as asked for by OTHER people. I like the game just fine the way it is

[white cliff]

That’s what you just claimed, I was quoting your own message silly. “The best way to fight inflation is to grow the game”

[proud tinsel]

No Silver claimed it would lead to inflation, I countered that bullshit argument with a fact

[white cliff]

Yeah you’re also doing an incredible amount of straw manning instead of creating a cohesive argument…..

“If you don’t like it don’t play it”

Oh sure, let’s just add everything into the game so it attracts and panders to everyone! Let’s add a battlepass and guns while where at it.

Like give me a break man.

[proud tinsel]

I don't mind that I learned the pve the hard way. If an offline mode would have been available I probably would have used it though to save time learning how to play and how to even extract since I had read nothing I just jumped in. Reductio ad absurdum is taking an argument to an absurd lvl which is why you just did. I'm just advocating for the people who say have an offline mode of the same game or a true solo que where you can not gain anything materially. Not changing anything about the game.

No one will force you to play that mode. If you dont like it dont play in that mode. Just like if you don't like the solo que which many people HATED the idea of. It will split the player base they said... Dont play it.

[white cliff]

And nobody will force you to play the FPS mode but I’ll still whine everyday about it needing more content.

I don’t play solo, it stills effects the economy and playerbase though.

[proud tinsel]

It does need more content. You know the great thing about that though? The FPS content will feed the offline content.

[white cliff]

We’re in agreement then, hope they add wall jumping mechanics too. Let’s dilute the game into several different games so the original vision is gone and the game dies out.

[proud tinsel]

How would an offline mode dilute the game? It would grow the game.

[mental lance]

Would be kinda dumb if you could just learn how to solo cave troll offline without risking anything

[white cliff]

I’m talking about PvE development.

How would an offline mode grow the game at all?

[proud tinsel]

PvE development is going to happen either way.

[white cliff]

Because it’s a PvPvE game, what it’s not is a PvE title.

[proud tinsel]

Because new players are going to feel more comfortable learning the maps and the pve with out being ganked by those of us with 400+hours before early access.

[white cliff]

If you want to see how boring they would be, go play expedition argetha, same as DnD but it has a 400 peak playerbase so the mode is basically PvE.

[amber solstice]

You literally can do that. Almost everyone does it in starter gear and just rushes the boss in the first 15 seconds to practice the 4 actions he has.

[mental lance]

You dont have to deal with other people interrupting you in offline. So it gives offline players an advantage over online players in that regard

[proud tinsel]

I know how boring it would be. Thats why they wont play long in there they will learn some stuff then move in so they can start to progress. Its just a soft landing. I would like to avoid as much as possible someone coming in solo quing getting splatted for 2 hrs and then returning the game and leaving a negative comment.

[white cliff]

You could just play the game and practice it like it’s meant to be? The soft landing is starter gear. You don’t lose anything when you die playing norms and learning the game.

The solo queue splatting has nothing to do with offline practice and more has to due with the fact that you can gear in trios and stomp noobs.

[proud tinsel]

I mean we dont know thats how its meant to be because the game is not out. Rangers thought they were playing how they were meant to be even though I have been telling them for months that they were not and they still freaked out when the quiver implementation happened.

[white cliff]

The first thing I do in a game is to play it, I don’t go and practice in an offline mode. That makes no sense, and most players wouldn’t seek that anyway.

[proud tinsel]

So you know what 1 million people think right now? I skip tutorial mode on every game but Im not sure I would claim that most people do

[white cliff]

I think decades of game data would suggest.

Y E S.

[proud tinsel]

Do you have any links to said data that 51% of people skip tutorials on most games? Why do they keep making tutorials? That would seem to be a huge waste of dev time.

The great thing about this tutorial is that its already made they just put 1 person in instead of 18 or 11 or however many are in gobo solo que

[smoky yoke]

a funny tutorial was in far cry 3 blood dragon

[ripe haven]

ill give benefit of the doubt that people do tend to skip tutorials. an offline/LAN mode is still an essential suggestion to make to the devs, not only for tutorial purposes, but network outages, local tournaments with friends, and plain ole experimentation.

procedurail labrynth with a giant roaming minotaur is a fantastic idea

[deep steeple]

they should remove the minimap on HR
make it extra spicy

[ripe haven]

im cool with that actually.

[deep steeple]

bring back duo lava/ghost boss to high roller

[ripe haven]

it would also be cool for normal map to show your visible allies on the map; but if you lose line of sight, their littler marker fades away

[spiral spindle]

After a couple games of expedition agartha I just cant understand why someone would want a pve only mode for dnd,
That game is pretty much pve only and its boring as hell

[smoky yoke]

if they add an item map as thing, could be cool maybe removing the minimap on HR

[deep steeple]

minecraft taught me a build isnt complete without a map room, so yeah they should do that

[proud tinsel]

At this point I don't really look at the mini map anyway it could be gone and would not bother me. Until a new map comes out lol.

[abstract swallow]

It would be nice to be able to see sources of sound on the map.

[ripe haven]

sea of theives makes you go into your ship cabin to look at the given map with GPS, otherwise you have parchment with no markers on it

[ripe haven]

because noobstomping is fun for some and horrendously unfun for the victims lol

[amber solstice]

Expedition agartha's only good combat mechanic is visible damage. Their combat feels so bad.

[ripe haven]

i dont understand why people cant understand why other people have different definitions of fun

[rancid pebble]

The combat was molasses fr

[mental lance]

Fall damage yay or nay

[rancid pebble]

nay

[ripe haven]

maybe a small amount, but if you drop like 4 floors, that hsould be lethal imo

[rancid pebble]

im anti anti-fun mechanics, realism be damned

[ripe haven]

i dont like that people can parkour off of ancient lamp stands without tripping and accidentally impaling themselves

[graceful frost]

Nah no fall damage at all

[rancid pebble]

i mean if we are going full realism then we will get stamina, and lamps will burn damage you, and jumping too much will empty jump you, it is just well anti-fun. And games are about fun ;P

[ripe haven]

i dont want full realism, but i dont care for pushing boundaries either. i really like an immersive experience with this kind of game

[rancid pebble]

Fair enough, I see your point I just disagree

[shy orbit]

Reality-based mechanics would be hilarious

Not fun, but hilarious.

Like if you thought it sucked to fight Rangers before, imagine a single shot to the ribs from their weakest bow killing you.

[graceful frost]

Yeah they said they don’t want to do stamina and I think they are sticking with the no fall damage. I just love the people arguing for nerfs based on realism when we have spell casters zombies and all the good non realistic things

[shy orbit]

That's the kind of damage you could "realistically" expect to take before death.

[graceful frost]

It’s just so anti fun it’s insane. I don’t think they are going that route, and I hope they rethink weight since there is a bar at the bottom

[shy orbit]

I think movement speed does need some tuning, but it doesn't follow that a weight system is the solution.

[graceful frost]

I think it would be cool if there was some, but that’s like being able to shoot a chandelier down or knock over a torch or anything small like that. And I’m not saying a chandelier insta kills just small

[graceful frost]

The movement speed is fine. If ur talkin like wiz with haste and invis then yes.

[ripe haven]

i dont mind some lack of realism, its just when i see a fully geared fighter in a high roller lobby swinging from chandalier to chandalier, i lose only a little bit of steam.

[rancid pebble]

Imagine everything doing bleed and you needed to do skill checks to stop the bleeding

[ripe haven]

thats one of the 402 reasons why i stopped playing dbd

[proud tinsel]

They have magically enhanced strength and agility.

[ripe haven]

and some kind of featherweight charm, i imagine

[ripe haven]

@trim docki have been waiting for you for a very long itme

[white cliff]

No stamina systems, weight, or fall damage.

[graceful frost]

@mental lance this isn’t Elden ring stop tryna turn it into that. Half your suggestions are like that

[mental lance]

Idk what you’re talking about

[graceful frost]

U are the creator of hot take city

[mental lance]

Im the voice of the people

[crimson flax]

game needs 30 ms of input delay for the hidetaka miyzaki seal of approval

[spiral spindle]

But how would that work then? People would just farm pve and then bring their good gear into pvp to do exactly what you seem to be against

[crimson flax]

still on the PVE discussion? yuuuuuuuck

[proud tinsel]

If there were any kind of pve only mode it should never be connected to any progression either gear or lvls on live pvpve

[mental lance]

They should add a pvp mode

[ripe haven]

implied restrictions: grey/common weapons and basic things found only. geared up? yea i guess, but with garbage things you can use as a sort of alternative start in the main game. you wouldnt ever find nice things in what I perceive as a PvE mini dungeon. its just the basics. not much of a farm, when the fruit is under ripe and weak flavored.

@proud tinsel yea thats reasonable, if not, significantly reduced rewards, especially considering "adventure points". but maybe minimal xp and silver coins to be found only IDK something like that

@west aspen did u see my suggestion about glorious pvp gladiator arena ?

[mental lance]

Make it a boss and put it in middle of F1

[graceful frost]

There is a difference between voice of the people and voice of an idiot 🤷

[rancid pebble]

idk it depends how this game wants to be. Personally PvE only would be so boring and tedious idk who would play it

[ripe haven]

look man, it comes down to accessibility. if you don't want to offer accessibility options for new players and people who want to have fun, you aren't really helping anyone out, especially those who are struggling to get by on some of the fundamental concepts. this game is obviously very welcoming to new players and it has a very addictive formula. a game this promising and this big is going to take up s i g n i f i c a n t amount of time and dedication for more than some. so lets offer some accessibility, no?

[rancid pebble]

I made a suggestion for new players, adding a PvE only section wouldnt convert new players to the game, you would effectively be making a seperate game for them

[ripe haven]

its a separate mode, not a separate game. my argument would be that GOBLINS wouldnt exist if we didnt hav emore modes

[crimson flax]

nah

[rancid pebble]

mhm, but if a new player is introduced to that it isnt the same learning environment of true DaD, which has PvEvP

[ripe haven]

while that works for some and maybe most, thats not going to work for everyone

[rancid pebble]

It could be its own thing sure, but I don't think we should look at it being for new players. I worry the same thing could happen with the goblin caves where new players only play that game mode, or quit

[ripe haven]

tbh idc to try convince anyone else about this. the devs will likely offer these modes in some way. it isnt just about the new players, as i described above, theres also outlets for others that can be fun for them

[rancid pebble]

True, I hope we have a diverse option of dungeons, I just hope they don't lose the essence of DaD as it is now

[crimson flax]

the thumbs down lmao

[ripe haven]

they wont. i have faith in the devs. they produced this thing in a matter of months and their creativity knows no bounds. i am confident they have at least discussed this long before any of us did here.

[crimson flax]

it probably wont be a babyshit mode either way ngl

[rancid pebble]

Also true, knowing these devs it will be brutal. I still find PvE boring since it is by nature non-dynamic. Once you 'figure out' an enemy thats it. You will kill them and not take damage and get loot, repeat. Algorithmic gameplay is what made gaming go towards multiplayer PvP in my opinion

[crimson flax]

just like the solo map wasn't easy mode, lol, PVE mode is probably going to be some nightmare difficulty baseline stuff i imagine

[deep steeple]

bro who is saying goblin caves wasnt easy lmao

[rancid pebble]

I hope it is, but even so if you are able to cross contaminate loot in PvE, and you have no threat of losing it to players, then people will farm it for good loot

[crimson flax]

a lot of people did and it was funny

[rancid pebble]

the statistics the devs released show that goblin caves were hard, but this data may be skewed since new players mainly played it

[crimson flax]

john skyrim and dave mordhau when they play darker and darker

[abstract swallow]

goblin caves was more punishing than castle was for new players, especially on release and after the +2 playercap

[proud tinsel]

The goblin caves were much harder than normal castle

[rancid pebble]

Not gunna lie, even though I had played the previous playtest.

I got one tapped by a goblin first run in, he headshot me and I died to poison since I was rogue

But by the nature of it being a stagnant npc, once you learn it you should never die again, then it becomes easy

[deep steeple]

After day 2 I had no problems, as a new player, clearing and evacing, ofc death stats are going to screw it from my day 1 and 2, but its easy as heck

[crimson flax]

yeah my first few runs i died until i realized barb 3 taps everything there, very OP loot generator

[proud tinsel]

of course you had no problems after you learned it, that does not mean it was not much harder than normal castle

[ripe haven]

sometimes, i dont mind playing a low energy, low key game. it can be fun when youre socializing and smashing on skeletons to get some basic loot together.

[crimson flax]

i mean realistically the clear speed is much higher as a result of the fact theres far more damage and player density. its harder if you die yes

[abstract swallow]

honestly I'd love an offline raid or a PvE league, but it's not really something relevant up until the game's full release where players will genuinely need those options in order to grasp the game on a competitive/competent level

[crimson flax]

yeah but dark and darker fundamentally isn't that game and its in the tagline

[proud tinsel]

The clear speed is roughly the same, and the loot is gimped.

Solo castle is easier than solo gobo caves or was in pt4 anyway

[rancid pebble]

^

[ripe haven]

so is other stuff, incluyding trying to capture the magic of classic fantasy games. AND they "look forward to incorporating all the dungeon fantasy tropes as a loving homage."

Which tells me they will likely add more modes that are not PvPvE

[deep steeple]

unless they add really good AI I doubt there will be a non PvPvE mode

[rancid pebble]

Time will tell

[crimson flax]

"Darker and Darker is an unforgiving, hardcore PvPvE..."

[ripe haven]

yea i saw that part too, but did you read the WHOLE thing?

[rancid pebble]

That is my main problem as I talked about earlier, NPC are just not enough of a threat in a looter extract game, without just making them tedious with tons of speed, health, and damage

[crimson flax]

"Darker and Darker is an unforgiving, hardcore PvPvE..."

It aint Maplestory where you hang out in Elysis fields and farm slimes bro bro, its just not going to happen like that

[deep steeple]

yeah exactly I dont want to play destiny I want to play bonk sim

[rancid pebble]

so true bro, destiny's pvp is so ass too, imagine if thats what we get in this with PvE only

Anyways, 2nd Timothy you should make a suggestion to see what the wider community thinks about PvE

[deep steeple]

the only enemy in game that should be allowed to be a boss from Destiny is the dragon, bc obligitory big boss hp

[crimson flax]

It'd probably kill the game. Look at the numbers fortnite did before battle royale lol

If the game was PVE only anyway, just look at Agartha

[ripe haven]

i already suggested stuff and am aware of the majority opinion

[rancid pebble]

thats where I may become a hypocrite, group boss battles would be sooo cool

[ripe haven]

its like u cant wrap your mind around the idea of another bonus mode. i guess we wont get another magical goblins-level concept. whoops wrong reply

[deep steeple]

I want to see a dungeon that has no additional mechanics but forces random teams to work together for loot, add an extra layer of backstabbery and battling bosses

[ripe haven]

that will be dragon mode i have $100 bet with someone on that

[rancid pebble]

Yea that would be so cool, roleplaying in games like this comes so naturally, they wouldnt have to change much to make a coop boss dungeon

[deep steeple]

most likely, a new dungeon.

[deep steeple]

If they do, hopefully the Co-Op comes as a result of the dungeon's design rather than just putting a ton of players on the same 'team'. kinda like how limited portals = more pvp

[crimson flax]

just hoping that boss design for dad going forward isnt the dogwater 3 lane add phase buffswap formula that destiny uses for its bosses

[rancid pebble]

in general I hope games dont take destiny for inspiration. It was a good game a while ago, then it became boring and samey. Middle aged dads play it now thats it

[ripe haven]

i dont think anyone does anymore.

[deep steeple]

bungie gave up the best franchise to make thier own space shooter that turned into WoW without the roleplaiyng

[proud tinsel]

This game was developed for middle aged dads!

[ripe haven]

shit i just turned thirty something yesterday, and i think a few people have heard my babys due the day after play test 5 wraps up

[rancid pebble]

middle aged DaDs*

[rancid pebble]

this sentence would make a boomer have a stroke lmao, ur right tho

[proud tinsel]

I'm 46, just not dumb enough to have kids

[rancid pebble]

u got the dad bod and dad strength tho?

[warm spoke]

LOL

[ripe haven]

bungie stopped existing after the original halo trilogy was complete, and ODST was a fun side story

its kinda funny, i used to work security for the building that housed bungie. i talked with bungies frequently, they even gave me an office chair and some other fun toys. i got to tour inside their office

[deep steeple]

that explains a lot

Cant wait for server merging to become a thing, so i can wipe hell after wiping b1.

[rancid pebble]

I remember that suggestion of mine being heavily downvoted, it would be interesting to actually have combatt in hell that isnt just rats camping you after you kill the boss

[deep steeple]

the devs in a QnA said they are going to eventually get to adding that feature. I want to be able to see random people in hell suffering with me

[glacial sphinx]

dnno how I'd feel about merging, it'd make a game feel a bit less personal probably cause you're not meeting people that you just went through the previous level with. But yeah currently obviously there's not enough action in the hell zone

[warm spoke]

16 ppl in hell

[ripe haven]

the red zones are a serious coin flip in my experience. i either come across minimal activity while avoiding the larger rooms, or im immediately centaur stomped as soon as i step out of my weird prison cell

[rancid pebble]

@glacial sphinx but often the people you saw in hell anyways you never encountered in B2. Furthermore, merging would allow full games and would let the floor be played as the devs intended

[ripe haven]

merging is probably a good technical idea, ngl that makes alot of sense

[rancid pebble]

As it was last pt hell was far too safe, might sound silly, but my ideology is that players are the biggest, and only real threat

[glacial sphinx]

Well I think they could also experiment with having more red portals and fewer blue ones

[deep steeple]

Its more of, if no one went to hell with you on your server (because you killed them all) it will take people from another server where 1 team made it to hell

[glacial sphinx]

and I guess another thing to consider is red might become more attractive as the game runs longer than a few weeks

but yeah it might end up that you do need mergers

[ripe haven]

red portals are also a great bargaining chip for fast friendships.

[deep steeple]

"there's only one blue portal left :("
*insert chad barb pic* "You take the blue, I'll take the red"

[ripe haven]

sometimes yea. othertimes, some dastardly rogue steals some guys blue portal. every red portal always seems to have 3, so ill call people over, but only if theyre cool

[deep steeple]

I have so many clips of me walking up to a 3 man and taking one of their 2 portals hahaha

[strange fiber]

I always throw up the surrender emote before i jack a portal

[abstract swallow]

learning to take red portals will literally double your extraction rate with just a bit of game/map knowledge

[proud tinsel]

not if they fill em, which will kill going in there solo which is a bummer

[deep steeple]

A full hell is only 6 people. There are 4 portals that spawn, so odds are still pretty good

[proud tinsel]

Its also super small and most people wait until the very end to take the portals due to open loot piles and what not.

[shy orbit]

How many red portals spawn in a normal lobby? It's surely more than 6? I could swear it was 9 now with the 18-sized lobby

[deep steeple]

hell is always two triportals

[shy orbit]

Interesting, I always believed that there were more, but people weren't taking them. Not sure what gave me that impression.

[deep steeple]

probably becasue they are super easy to find and no one ever takes them lol

[shy orbit]

I guess so. Like someone said earlier, it's a great way to up your chances without relying on a leftover blue portal. I'd think they'd be more popular.

[deep steeple]

take your average DnD player and put them against a demon dog. They'll prob die lol.
everyone is scared of hell, and only junkies go. Which is the way I think it should be lol

[shy orbit]

I mean that's my attitude towards high roller, right. Let all the sweaty people go there with meta comps and 4000g worth of gear. People should give red a chance.

With that said, I have totally watched a friend beef it and get devoured by two dogs in the red. I've watched a red ornate chest mimic oneshot my cleric. Good times in there.

[deep steeple]

Sometimes losing is fun lol
that's why I like this game. Im spooked but spooked at a pace of my choosing

[shy orbit]

One thing I'll say this game has done really right is balance the potential of losing everything with the potential of making it all back on your next few runs

There are a lot of single-player roguelikes that aren't balanced that well

[ripe haven]

ive seen 12 red portals spawn; 4 pedestals with 3 each

[shy orbit]

I guess I should just watch someone's game from late in the playtest and count them

[deep steeple]

every normal game has portal counts at the top, its pretty easy to verify 6 per lobby
this was just last playtest tho idk about before playtest 4

[shy orbit]

Yep, it's 12

Just looked at a game from last playtest. 2x3 Down Portals spawned at once, then 1x3 twice after. So you really can have most of a lobby go to Hell.

I imagine they wouldn't really scale that number down; there's no real reason to. I wonder if there'll be a Down portal trio going straight from Forest to Hell, though.

[ripe haven]

no way

[shy orbit]

Yeah, it's probably unworkable because the Down portal already waits for the B1 lobby to clear.

[ripe haven]

also youd get to just skip a whole dungeon, which is nonsense for a hardcore game like this

[shy orbit]

Also true.

[deep steeple]

(2x3) + (1x3) = 9?

[shy orbit]

1x3 spawns twice, I didn't make that clear enough.

[deep steeple]

you worded that so weird
so 2 trio's then 2trio's again later?

[worldly mica]

Yes he means 2(3x) spawn at the same time, and then 2(3x) will spawn later at separate times

[trim dock]

?

[ripe haven]

bro i wanted to do that suggestion, but i waited and here you are

[deep steeple]

yeah just looked myself and its a total of 12, holy cow

[trim dock]

im surprised it took that long for someone to suggest lmao

[ripe haven]

im very loud and obnoxious. i was not worthy.

[trim dock]

❤️

[ripe haven]

@graceful frost the one thing i despised about dark souls, was that i could not use the word "knight" in a name without censorship

[smoky yoke]

it will be better in future

[graceful frost]

😄

[smoky yoke]

the current name filter is a placeholder

[proud tinsel]

The name filter actually needs to be way more strict not less. Although Brass is not one that should be censored

[ripe haven]

I'd like a universal switch that turns all censorships on or off

[proud tinsel]

Its a fantasy game if you can not come up with a fantasy name there are about 30 fantasy name generators out there.

[graceful frost]

That is an awful take Lmao

Yeah bad names should be censored but why should you not be able to use the name you like to use just cause “it’s a fantasy game if you can not come up with a fantasy name out there” obnoxious take

[proud tinsel]

I'm just saying its pathetic that people cant come up with good names. Whats wrong with Phantomz. Nothing

I agree though you should be able to use whatever name you like. Im just saying there are tools out there to help you.

[graceful frost]

It’s not that people can’t come up with them it’s that even if you do you cant use them sometimes. But yeah I think we agree

[atomic mountain]

Should be no filter, except for slanderous terms. And a toggle switch that allows you to display or not display custom names

[proud tinsel]

Honestly the names I have seen have been way worse than anything a filter would normally nock off

[atomic mountain]

That’s why I’m for a global filter. If they’re more offensive than funny, toggle all names off and it’ll just be your team and Wizard2737383 Rogue17237474

[ripe haven]

I want to be able to turn all censorships off.

[proud tinsel]

I don't find words of any kind to be offensive. You need to be able to see names for the kill feed in non HR though so there has to be some kind of filter. People are creative though and will get around it.

[atomic mountain]

But I’d say certain terms should be filtered. But swears are fair game imo. F word fine, N word nah skip that

[ripe haven]

I want to turn off all censorships. Let me handle my own muting and blocking.

[mossy ruin]

next PT wont be waiting for B1 but probably still no going to be a part of the game

hell queues will wait for more people before it begins starting next PT, so if your lobby all go blue but you, or you go red quickly, you dont get a match right away or you might get to start hell instantly.. respectively

And if that system holds true next PT, F1 to B1 would probably also do this system, or at least I imagine, but maybe not 👍

[mossy ruin]

you might be thinking of rogue-lites, roguelikes are all permadeath of character and its pretty taboo for the genre to have your next run benefit from the previous.

but I guess I could see you mean that sometimes you get a good run in a roguelike and die and next few run you dont get anything good and you feel weaker than your good run. But in all honesty, from a few roguelike games, you really got to play with what you get.

[shy orbit]

Fair, I forgot the character leveling up is a little like metaprogression

[mossy ruin]

Well we also have stash and we can fill it with gold.

[shy orbit]

Yeah, but I've run myself to 0 gold before. I was basically referring to it not feeling too bad to have to start over in terms of gear and wealth

[mossy ruin]

Fair enough, btw tip for not running out of gold, if you have a few bad runs in a row, just go eat or find a way to reset your mindset, sometimes you get in a funk without realizing it and taking a break for most people is the only fix unless you know how to get 'into the zone'

[shy orbit]

I mean doing so purposefully. Like zugging as hard as possible until I burn out. Everyone does that at least on the last day, right?

[mossy ruin]

I tried, on the last day two PTs ago I was trying to die and I couldn't and I never got to empty my stash by the end, but I was playing barb then and no one played him that PT for some reason

[shy orbit]

December? That was a good one.

[mossy ruin]

This PT I started earlier than my other PTs and got a few characters to 15-20 and stocked up and switched characters a lot so everything was more fun to manage and less of an urge to blow it all at end because I just switched to an undergeared character
doubt thatll work for my brain next PT though >.>

[shy orbit]

In April I am outright no-lifing it.

[ripe haven]

Also, don't take anything, not even that one or two smol things you like taking. Just tell yourself, no. You don't need to bring that health pot/shoes

[ripe haven]

That suggestion in Russian is gibberish.

[grave mason]

I can't go back to completely naked runs after using good gear, need at least a weapon, some grey agi gear and healing

[ripe haven]

Why bring it and not have it, when you can have it without bringing it?

[still zenith]

My strat when I was at a level where I was continually running out of money, was to go in naked and then pick the character completely, and I mean to-the-bone completely clean of anything of value when I did manage an escape.

Only on a 2nd consecutive naked escape did I let a character keep anything, and from then on they kept 1/2, stored 1/2. Worked great.

[still zenith]

It's bonkers the difference merely a starter -> white weapon upgrade makes innit

[shy orbit]

If you bother to collect invis pots they're nice to bring along on broke runs

Not even for the people so much as breaking mob aggro

[grave mason]

or 100g for an off meta purple weapon to double your damage (38dmg battle axe -> 75dmg maul)

[crimson flax]

I wonder how good maul is in bossing

[grave mason]

My rogue walked into it as it went through the lich

[timber valve]

Had 0 struggle with naked castle normal runs on ranger. Rogue was a bit heavy with starter dagger but just a white/green one and ezpz runs

[crimson flax]

The war maul experience, I still remember when apparently someone in korean kill their teammate off screen in one hit with a legendary one

[grave mason]

yeah I did that with a zwei,
also I don't think its great for bossing as the perma combo / headshot is hard to use on them tall bosses that knock you back, maybe if you had a cleric constantly buffing/healing you it would be good

[crimson flax]

I can only imagine using it on ghost king results in you getting earthquaked before you can finish a string lol

[still zenith]

Yessir! Played with about a half dozen different 100g, well itemized purple Survival Bows in the middle of the test using this concept. Some All Stats in there, base damage equivalent to tier(s) above the starting Recurve, with tons of move and attack speed compared to the usual default. A loadout in a bottle. Good times.

[mossy ruin]

@merry fern it is very likely going to be a visual mechanic when it launches. They already have some inventory versions and an attempt at what you say in form of craftable gear and legendary uniques.
Im also a tad confused by your stance but i would also like rarity to be displayed by the model

[grave mason]

I want to try ranger and specifically survival bow but I feel like the quiver change will hurt the survival bow the most, also if the new map is large and open then longbow will continue to dominate

[still zenith]

Both for different ranges and scenarios. Always bow. Pew pew pew.

[grave mason]

thing is the longbow is more viable in close range than the survival bow in long range

I know I wouldnt be good enough to snipe and I play aggressive so I would use the recurve bow

I could see 3 rangers using survival bow to chase people down or kite people tho

[still zenith]

It's brilliant they've managed to implement three distinct bows with their own strengths and weaknesses so elegantly, I know that much

By the end of the test, I'd circled around and settled back on mostly Recurve as well. The flexibility is very nice. Next test I want to play around with some Pavise Gaming, and take a detour to Spear Town, too.

[grave mason]

I want to use spear crossbow as fighter, maybe ranger tho

[still zenith]

Absolutely. Considering one Ranger landing shots can do quite a number on kiting already, two or three sounds nightmarish to face.

[still zenith]

This sounds lit, Crossbow/Spear Fighter. Outside of one run on Wizard, if I wasn't on Ranger it was Fighter. When I was first learning, Fighters and their % Projectile Reduction stacking seemed insurmountable, so it was tempting to be like "well, they can use a bow, too..."

Indeed, facing other Rangers in the body of a Fighter felt a bit deterministic at times, but trying the class for myself also shined a light on some of the Fighter's weaknesses as well as Ranger strengths I had taken for granted.

[merry fern]

Good to know. My stance is that I can see both sides of it from a gameplay perspective in that there are pro's and con's to either. I lean towards being able to discern at least relative power level of other players based on their appearance. For example, should Fulgore have its own unique aesthetic where you can tell at a glance someone's using it? What about the Elven Bow unique? I'm not convinced you should be able to see to that level of accuracy, at a glance, what weapons someone's using, but I think there's a strong argument to have unique aesthetic for all uniques. tl;dr, I'm on the fence on to what degree of aesthetic accuracy there should be

[mossy ruin]

I mean every quality of every item and then all the uniques should be different. The uniques will probably have different models and the rarities will probaby have a scale of battle scarring. On top of this I expect, or wouldnt be surprised rather, that eventually a variant of some of the weapons just for visuals like a maul having a variant bludgeoning block shape just for fun but still following the quality tiers

I hope you mean the Elven bow could and should have a different model but shouldnt be 'glowing and obvious' I agree, but there just should be a nice variance for clarity

[merry fern]

Yeah. I'd love to see a balance struck between cool looking and glaringly obvious that you're using an incredibly powerful weapon. it should reward the eagle-eyed among players for spotting it ahead of time, before it starts destroying you. Tougher, of course, with a ranger who you may not have direct line of sight of, but that's just part of the ranger's kit's advantage

[deep steeple]

Would you be able to see random dude on at a glance and be like "oh he's using Excalibur the legendary sword only a few have ever seen"
But yeah some weapons and models are already different, I think that's what they want but haven't gotten around to it yet. Look at heater shields for example

[merry fern]

Of course. To be clear, I get that different shield types, weapon types, etc all have different models. What I'm driving at is that there's no visible difference between a gray Longsword and an Orange longsword, but the impact of those two are massively different, making it impossible to 'size up' an enemy Fighter as he's running at you. That's where the question lies as to whether it should or shouldn't be that way, as there are reasonable arguments on both sides of for and against that kind of aesthetic difference

That's probably where BloodDrum rightly pointed out confusion at my stance on the matter. I'm not taking a side on it, I'm just suggesting Ironmace take a look at the ramifications on going down either route. It'd be interesting to see how combat and the meta were to develop if you could visually and with relative ease differentiate between different rarity tiers

[deep steeple]

My guy different rarity heater shields have different textures lol
Same with buckler too
But it's probably an in progress feature

[merry fern]

they do? I never noticed in the last playtest. is it just those two shields that have different textures?

[shy orbit]

The round shield is also noticeably altered at higher rarities. They only get the black paint at like blue and above.

The epic heater shield looks like a metal shield. It's one of the most noticeable epic items.

When it comes to weapons, it's not really apparent unless you're wielding them, at which point they do look different in terms of polish and so on.

[white cliff]

Diffferent rarity items already have different textures.

[shy orbit]

You know what weapon is noticeable actually? Morningstars. I can always tell when a cleric is packing a really juicy morningstar. Something about the head of that weapon makes it obvious.

[white cliff]

The difference between a wooden heater shield and a metal one is noticeable for sure.

[deep steeple]

The difference between a good and a bad long sword irl is the blade tbh I don't see a realistic way of telling the difference

Unless we go full tf2 mode

[shy orbit]

The grip and hilt are the most noticeable changes in longsword rarity, I think. If you're lucky enough to see it on the fighter's back, you can tell.

[deep steeple]

I think that defeats the purpose of why people want different textures anyway lol
I'm fine with how things are, you can't tell how good armor is just by seeing a random dude wearing it irl, why would you be able to in a fantasy dark ages game

[shy orbit]

Yeah I don't mind the current system myself. Just assume they're dangerous and act on that. Realism aside it's just more fun.

[deep steeple]

Most of these suggestions are like, convenience related, and If you added them all it would take away from the fantasy hardcore experience

[rancid pebble]

dude ive seen like 5 suggestions complaining about that, everything has different looks for different rarities people aint even playing the game

[mental lance]

Someone should make a vid of the different appearances

[rancid pebble]

u will bust when you see the unique pavise, so useless, so sexy

[merry fern]

The problem with this argument that it 'takes away from the fantasy experience' is it's very much within the realm of fantasy that powerful weapons/items/armor often have distinctive looks to them. To be clear, I'm fine as a player not being able to easily discern between rarities of, say, armor. I would think perhaps an enchanted robe or plate piece looks very similar to non-enchanted, right? I think that's fair to say.

[rancid pebble]

the ironic thing is that most pieces of gear would look the exact same, even in the middle ages things were being semi mass produced

[merry fern]

The question to me is less about realism towards middle age weaponry and/or general fantasy and is instead more of a balance question within the game. How easily (or with what level of difficulty) one can discern an enemy player's potential damage output/survivability has significant balance implications in how people play the game and how combat happens or doesn't happen

[rancid pebble]

it is a sort of knowledge check, and I think that decision making in that time would not allow distinctive armor to be that useful

[graceful frost]

Yeah I don’t think realism really needs to play a part. I do like the idea of being able to see different armor tier. Would help worse geared players but would it make it too dull for fights since you just run if you see good gear? I feel like that could be a big issue. Why bring in good stuff if everyone just runs and you get no action

[deep steeple]

The game shouldn't tell you exactly how much danger you are in.
You see a dude wearing what looks to be starting great? Safe target.
You see full plate? Could be white, but could be blue, take a guess and make a decision

[rancid pebble]

A second thing to consider is that knowing the rarity may tell you the armor value/ damage value, but says nothing of the specific enchantments that the weapon has

[graceful frost]

I feel like it might just make much more of a run playstyle, well depending on how easy it is to see. Cause many people might just see that it’s good gear and insta run

[merry fern]

@graceful frost Agreed, that could be a very real problem. @deep steeple I'm inclined to agree with you on a personal level

[graceful frost]

I think some sort of difference could be nice as long as it’s subtle

Like maybe worse plate looks more scraped but it doesn’t appear till you get in a certain range? So that you can’t tell across the room and run?

[rancid pebble]

another thing to state is... again there are already cosmetic changes per rarity, and if we are talking about it now it is obvious it was not noticable to the wider community

[deep steeple]

Also let's not forget a blue plate has potential to be better armor than legendary plate

[merry fern]

Subtle differences make sense to me. It fits in the DND style of the game in that it's a knowledge/perception check for the player, and rewards a player for being immersed and aware of what they're finding and looking at

[graceful frost]

There are? I mean I have only really seen it between like naked uniques and normal weapons I haven’t see it between say a green plate and a purple plate

[merry fern]

it's apparently very noticeable on shields

[rancid pebble]

yes. it is hard to notice because the game is dark and as i said earlier there are other things to worry about than the look of the weapon

[deep steeple]

I don't think there is any for armor tho atleast none I saw

[graceful frost]

I think I have noticed on shields I just never really looked for it since I was not aware it existed in the first place

[rancid pebble]

afaik it was for weapons, and shields. I assume they will add it to armour but their visual department is too small as of now

[graceful frost]

Ah

[merry fern]

I have to get back to work. nice chat everyone. can't wait for the next test

[deep steeple]

Ew work, why not quit and lurk full time like the rest of us smh

[merry fern]

if you can pay me enough money to live on, I'd be happy to lurk

[deep steeple]

The money comes from your mom

[rancid pebble]

imagine working after 2 pm zzzzz

[thick widget]

As a Kratos enjoyer, when will kratos be added as a playable skin or at least a boss in the dungeons

[cursive kayak]

Long swords look different too you can't tell right away tho because they still look realistic

[pallid vapor]

It’s easy to notice on the flanged mace. It legit goes from a rusty piece of metal to a golden mace

[white cliff]

That suggestion got a ton of up votes when it stated that the models don’t change at all based on rarity which is just blatantly untrue. Crazy.

@lilac zodiac I think from the downvotes you can tell, but people don’t want any type of SBMM or GBMM.

It gets rid of any type of risk, adrenaline rush from winning fights that you’re not suppose to win, destroys a lot of the extract looter loop.

[lilac zodiac]

Yeah I figured it was gonna get down voted but I thought I'd throw it out there

[rancid pebble]

Same with the zwei, its super rusty up to white

[still zenith]

The biggest difference I saw was in my own Recurves, which made gearing up feel extra sweet. Some things were more noticeable than others, with Barbarian and Rogue power levels being particularly hard to discern imo, and Uniques having some, well, uniqueness.

They have stated an intent to add more gear styles as the game progresses, which should naturally expound on the existing distinctions. It's indeed subtle atm.

It's kind of also a natural bonus to the Chestless Barbarian perk in this sense, too, I suppose.

High quality vs low quality Dark Plate seemed to be one of the more blatant ones. That and other factors made Fighters a tad easier to gauge.

Whether they have throwing axes on their belt was a big tell for me, as was them moving quickly despite being all plated up.

[rancid pebble]

Yea, id rather they scuff up the lower tiers first then add more uniqueness to the higher tiers, say dark grey to green looked varying levels of dirty/tattered/scuffed, and then blue would be average, with purp legendary and uniques looking perfect quality, like most gear looks now

[still zenith]

Another one was the Longbow. Perhaps since it's mostly only wood, with little other embellishment to obfuscate the matter, or perhaps in part because it's so sticky outie, also possibly because I love bows. Shine of the wood? Not sure, but the Purple ones "stuck out" to me.

[neat horizon]

#d-and-d-suggestions message man imagine if there was an ability where you can create a spawn point and by clicking the ability button again it would teleport you there

[hoary oriole]

but then it takes up an ability slot

[neat horizon]

well but Ig you can safely retreat when you get low

[hoary oriole]

they could keep it as a spell and make the spell different depending on if you have a point set or whatever

but i dont think that its a better idea than the curreent invis

i think it would just be healthier if they made rouge have more stealth and/or defensive options

[mental lance]

Making creep completely silent would be nice

[merry fern]

isn't it very close to, to the point where you're essentially in melee range by the time they can hear you?

[mental lance]

I’ve heard it’s halved the audible distance but i dont think there’s any hard data

[graceful frost]

With ranger hearing perk it also becomes pretty easy to here. I mean wizard invis when shift walking is silent so sneak should be to

[still zenith]

Is it just me or did the Enhanced Hearing perk also increase the volume (for you) of your own footsteps? Either way, it was too loud for me when I tried it. In order for it not to hurt my ears with the perk, I had to turn my volume down to a point where other sound was too low =/

I may also just be dum and have missed a way to fine tune it somehow.

[graceful frost]

Never had that happen for me

[boreal elbow]

Bro Eryk be hating on all my suggestions

[gilded hawk]

waiting intensely to see those hellhounds licking their balls

[boreal elbow]

Exactly. His reasoning for not liking good suggestions is that it's "too hard, just doing something else" which is stupid and not helpful

[gilded hawk]

If men only delved where it is easy, we would never have this game.

[faint dirge]

Just following the golden rules

[boreal elbow]

[dusky field]

How do people feel about pvp-specific maps/arenas for team-vs-team or 1v1s? It'd be a good way to drain some higher tier loot off the game, though it may be counter to the adventuring intention of the game. How do you all feel about it?

[graceful frost]

Nah

[gilded hawk]

In my opinion it should at maximum something like in my suggestion: duels that are just for having fun, a "mini-game" or a practice of sorts. Nothing too serious. Dungeon type, pvpve stuff should be the main focus of the game.

[graceful frost]

That would be cool.

[white cliff]

I’d rather them give us custom game support instead of specifically developing extra game modes.

[graceful frost]

It’s supposed to be up by release I think in like November or something. Much much better than other games

I wonder how tournaments will work if they do like ironmace supported ones. If it’s like everyone starts form default gear and plays like 10 games total and you go off those stats?

[ripe haven]

Progressive elimination, where you get to keep your gear between rounds ?

[slate tartan]

There's been tournaments run the past few testing periods already, not ironmace supported but cash prizes and decent rule set, can only use up to white gear

[graceful frost]

Ah

[graceful frost]

It actually would work better than I thought. Would prolly be a point type system with points for making it out and killing and maybe making it higher. Along with keeping gear in between. I think that would be fun to watch. However it could become room camping with ranger traps but can’t get worse than apex legends

[graceful frost]

Who tf is scamming In a video game discord server lol

[granite plinth]

he soo rich he need to advertise

[real trellis]

@feral basin cryptobro scammer detected

[turbid ermine]

we can't ping wardens no more

[real trellis]

WHAT

sorry random dude for the ping lol

[turbid ermine]

idk why but yep

[real trellis]

how tf do you even use the modmail bot, it's in two servers I'm in so how do I make it only show up for mods here

[mossy ruin]

youll figure it out

[real trellis]

it keeps telling me to verify the bot even though I've done so

oh there we go

[granite plinth]

#d-and-d-suggestions message
Imagine the first person who held the unique weapon is "yourMother" and the last person who held this unique weapon is "moistybottom"

[coral stratus]

Itd be a memorable experience

[granite plinth]

The price would go up like 10000%

[tawny lagoon]

I would like to see the kill count from that weapon too

[tight gale]

Thats so funny

[distant night]

it makes no sense that only boots affect your walking sounds, chest armor would probably be the loudest to walk around with, and boots the least

[pallid vapor]

It’s a video game. Boots being noise factor is the simplest answer

[deep steeple]

My man's never seen designer tailored plate armor smh

[distant night]

regardless if its fitted or not, why just the boots

The 95% damage reduction fighter will sound the exact same as a wizard if they wear leather boots

[ripe haven]

since when?

[turbid ermine]

nvm it's just not appearing on phone

[ripe haven]

its funny that clericcs can heal enemies but not resurrect them

[cold condor]

you have to draw the line somewhere

[ripe haven]

thats inconsistent and can lead to unintentional actions

[deep steeple]

???? How lol

[ripe haven]

accidentally healing the enemy obiv

[ebon idol]

It is a hardcoded rule that only allies can interact with the soul heart of people, same goes for ressurections. You can still miss your ressurections.

[ripe haven]

that kind of mistake is different than accidentally healing an enemy. not comparable.

[deep steeple]

But that's intentional
You can heal everyone.
You can't res enemies because they 99% of the time dc once they die

[ebon idol]

Healing your enemy by missing is intended.

[crimson flax]

Lol

[ripe haven]

thats not fun

[ebon idol]

As is hitting your ally. There is friendly fire, and unfriendly healing. I think that makes perfect sense.

[deep steeple]

That's a skill issue

[ripe haven]

thats moot, unfun is not fun

[deep steeple]

It's not moot because losing is in the game and that's not fun either

[ebon idol]

You can also accidentally buff an enemy. Same as you can accidentally debuff your friends. I find that perfectly symetrical and fair. Why should beneficial spells not be able to hit enemies?

[crimson flax]

You guys gotta stop taking the bait with this timothy guy man, ngl this guy has been here for weeks saying this and that and he doesn't want to actually discuss it a lot of the time, hes not looking for it

[ripe haven]

literally the first time ive brbought up healing an enemy. blcoked.

[ripe haven]

wat id like to be able to do, is use resurrect on other players outside my party. thats all. i dont need ot handle their souls or altars, but i had a great experience as a solo cleric. i was only a little dissapointed i couldnt use resurrect in the field on them.

[crimson flax]

Like literally this guy basically gets into arguments everyday about core game decisions or things the devs have talked about and keeps on going without any actual reasoning, it's pretty nonsensical. Say the devs dont want pve or solo? He'll go on for 30 minutes about different definitions of fun and won't listen to multiple people giving good reasons that are rooted in the very game definition

[white cliff]

Pretty funny because I just started scrolling and was like oh that Timothy guy is still here. Great….

[deep steeple]

It's a technical reason most likely. How do you handle resurrecting someone who is already dc'd? Or DC's mid res. Or someone dies, spectates whole lobby, then gets resurrected?

[crimson flax]

Yeah, right? What a giant waste of time lol

[white cliff]

The same way it’s handled for friendly players I assume.

[ripe haven]

they do dc most of the time, but not all the time. it woudl be the same as when you revieve your team mate who DCd in rage.

[deep steeple]

And @white cliff
It's basically a cheat if someone can die, spectate whole lobby, see all of everyone's gear and location then get resurrected. Unless y'all would prefer not being able to spec other people after death like tarkov, then the only way this would work is if you could only be res'd if you had a teammate alive still so it wouldn't be cheating. Which kinda defeats the purpose a bit.

[white cliff]

Oh I’m just trying to understand the logistics, I want solos removed lol.

[ripe haven]

thats a minor issue imo, esp for normals where resurrection takes place more often

[deep steeple]

An unfair advantage is still just that. I don't think reviving enemies will ever be a thing without making changes to spectate system.

[ripe haven]

imo hardly an unfair advantage, no more or less advantageous than having a full party or going solo

[white cliff]

?

[ripe haven]

you can always inspect people in lobby anyways, so its not like it isnt public infomration to some degree.

[deep steeple]

I'm not talking about teaming being unfair, I'm talking about being able to scout a whole lobby mid game. At least in lobby it's just gear, but in game would also be location and loot acquired.

[white cliff]

Knowing the active location of every player relative to where you died in solo, is very different than checking gear. Bad bait, is bad bait.

[ripe haven]

like you cant look down the hallway and know they were there? i can understand the argument for another play who is located far and away, but this infomration is limited, given that the player is about to be reiveved. once revieved, you dont have access to their location anym,ore

[mossy ruin]

Im trying to read along this argument but no one is really making any sense... If they did include a enemy revive mechanic then I am sure you would not be allowed to revive players who spectated lobby after dying then...

[deep steeple]

you are forced to spectate if your entire team is dead, and if you had a teammate still alive they can res you lol

[mossy ruin]

When we discuss things here, a lot of people argue that "X" mechanic makes "Y" mechanic a problem, but the point is to discuss around those problems so we can come up with creative ideas.

[ripe haven]

if any player is dead, a cleric with revive should be able to revive them, like how a cleric can heal any player. if a player is disconnected and revived, they just stand there, which is already a present reaction/mechanic. imo

[mossy ruin]

I am saying whether that is how it works or not, do you think that feature is so set in stone that they couldn't adjust it with a new intention? Your responsive either gives too little credit to the developers or you are not interested in the idea in the first place.

[deep steeple]

That would be asking for a change that effects everyone (stricter spectate) so that maybe 1% of the pop can res enemies who might already be DC anyway

[crimson flax]

(Hes probably not interested in it cause its dumb and doesnt add anything to the game)

[ripe haven]

shouldnt your teammates be disallowed from spectating if a party member is still alive anyways?

[deep steeple]

that's already the case. you can only spectate teammates when any of them are alive

[mossy ruin]

All they have to do is make the button to go to lobby or spectate persist even when your group is fully dead, this is not a change anyone would really notice. @crimson flax noted, furthering the discussion with you is moot, but I appreciate your opinion.

[crimson flax]

I mean hey. You can say that, but it's pretty clear that if the devs need to literally change how so many things is handled for something you can't even actually explain the purpose of its not worth having in the game

[mossy ruin]

I getcha, I read up a bit and saw you thinking missed heals and I assume buffs too? are unfun when they hit an enemy and give an advantage away to them? I find it fun to hop infront of a buff and steal it. So there is that, sometimes there is fun to be had at another players expense. I will say that healing enemies doesn't necessarily open the door for the revive feature being comparably used on them.

[deep steeple]

I dont think you see the issue here. If you are dead and you have no teammates, but a random cleric wants to revive you, you could spectate the entire lobby, find where everyone is, their hp, thier gear, their loot, and then get res'd then use that info to get an unfair informational advantage, which would require a change to the spectate system to ensure it doesnt happen

[crimson flax]

Like what is the purpose of resurrecting a dead enemy player? To grief? To team? Bonus XP? Kind of a waste of time to be having this discussion when it neither actually adds anything and only starts more problems if anything

[ripe haven]

tell u wat, wats frustrating is not being able to heal or buff myself when a rogue is taking up 60% of my FOV. if i had a button where i could target only myself, without fail, i wouldnt find the unintended consequence so jarring

[deep steeple]

I wouldn't say complete waste, it would be cool to res buddies you make in goblin caves lol

[mossy ruin]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

[ripe haven]

why didnt u just say that 3 years ago man, i didnt know

[deep steeple]

lol I cant tell weither he wants to be able to res enemies or just not be able to heal enemies. good suggestion tho

[mossy ruin]

I think its both and neither, if he can't resurrect enemies he wants enemy healing to go away because they are 1-1 in his mind. If we can resurrect enemies, hes more ok with healing them too.

[crimson flax]

I can say that's probably not what they want at all though is the thing. Especially if it creates a lot of possible extra work? Like can definitely be cool on paper for a number of reasons but I can just imagine that 90% of the time it's not going to be used for teaming or interesting fantasy purposes, just things like troll abuse and griefing

[deep steeple]

yeah, i dont like to argue the work time thing, becasue its not like we need every feature before next playtest lol
but it doesn't seem like they are against teaming, because there are plans for bigger dungeons. I think the only reason you cant res enemies is the technical reasons behind it.
when you think about it the only reason to kill enemies is thier loot and a potental escape portal slot

[ripe haven]

arguments are fine, when there is actually an argument to be shared. whats frustrating for anyone, is ad hominen, affirming the consequent, or the appeals to ignorance, or the almighty genetic fallacy

[mossy ruin]

Given the nature of the game is very in line with preconception of the holy trinity of tank/dps/healer, and the fact that people, even the most cynical of people, enjoy engaging with each other to share experience... I find it weird you dont understand why when he plays solo cleric he shows interest in making friends/being friendly with the, perhaps unintentionally, goal of making friends that they might queue up together after. You can't really add people after game in this game without talking to them at the moment. This obviously needs changed in some way, a friends list would be nice. If people aren't in the tavern you have to write their name down to remember later. I get you don't like the idea but if you really dont see the merit in some of these points then you are just holding the hill.

[crimson flax]

That's fair, but never forget that it can be a technical headache. Though being fair, these are the same devs that updated the engine before a playtest, so you might be right that it isn't exactly a real point. I think if anything the bigger dungeons like ruins won't lend itself to teaming though, but its likely intended to keep lower levels' population high without having the use of arbitrary queues to max out the lobby, which would be a big mess

[gloomy cradle]

tldr

[ripe haven]

not everyone shares the same opinion

[deep steeple]

Potentially, different dungeons could have different designs. Forgotten Castle and Goblin Caves are easy to PvE and there are limited portals, so no reasons to team.
They mentioned a dragon boss in last QnA and how 3 people might not be enough, which comes with a lot of different implications. (ie bigger party sizes or teaming for boss encouraged)

[mossy ruin]

At most you are rarely going to get this resurrect off, and its 1 per what, white campfire? Its not really a big deal and the only arguments I would ever see being reasonable at the moment because its a non issue, is the spectating thing(which is 100% adjustable to be NOT a problem) and also if you don't like role playing in a role playing game. Although I am aware roleplaying here is a stretch and games of this nature are less roleplay(interaction) but instead roleplay(fulfilling a role in a group)

[crimson flax]

No I definitely understand the idea of player interaction, its one of the core tenets of RPGs as a result of Dungeons and Dragons. Its just that res abuse in lot of RPGs is a very real thing. Especially when you make the point that the game requires better tools to communicate and link up with players inside or out of game, changing a system and allowing the possibility of griefing and just tying it to something like karma doesn't really fix any problems. It's really not even a bandaid here--its just a piece of fantasy that can be extremely abusable. You can literally take an example from any game that also has other resurrection mechanics. Boils down to a lot of restrictions cause it can cause tons of problems, and this would only be worse if you can resurrect your enemies, whether consensual or not.

[mossy ruin]

Spectating also already needs adjusted, the viewer can already see third person and it has clipping issues, tons of parts of the game are subject and in need of adjustment as is so the first point of it being unnecessary development time is redundant since they need to addres spectating as a whole anyways.

[mossy ruin]

That is a much more reasonable thing to say, thank you, I appreciate that a lot. Would a good middle ground be a system where a solo cleric meets a solo *insert class and they 'party-up' in dungeon using a mechanic we dont have yet and THEN hes allowed to revive if his new friend dies?

[crimson flax]

I imagine the statement at the end of the day will refer to the boss design mechanically rather than statistically. More likely to be something based around bigger teams, and more like something that requires a certain number of players to be onboard with things. It'll certainly be interesting to see how they go with it, since I can definitely see it possibly being a failed experiment resulting in general murderhoboism and extremely low clear rates if it ends up being TF2 obstacle course type stuff (for the sake of analogy.)

[ripe haven]

i almost want to unblock him and read wat he said

[deep steeple]

IF rezing outside of party limits were to be implemented there would be a need for the following changes:

1. spectate changes so you can either spectate whole lobby or nothing after everyone in party dies (user prompted and applied to whole team).
2. give the cleric a way to know weither the person being res'd is still connected to the game.

pretty simple, and if they were to implement it would still be very low priorty for development anyway lol

[mossy ruin]

Oh I understand the entirety of it, if you took the time to read what I typed I would be surprised at your assumption by the way, also your edit was a change to re-echo that you are AWARE of my stance yet somehow my stance makes my understanding poor, thank you.

[ripe haven]

a means of partying up in dungeon could be a whole separate thing, too, thats a really good idea for solos/duos

[mossy ruin]

Well I would like to see more people going in solo, because I think we have too many groups as is, I think its just a nature of the class identities and the idea that if I want to play X class I need my Y supporting class... But if they(thedevs) want to, and I think they very much do want group play, they should incorporate more systems IN GAME to allow us to interact and form parties than we have at the moment. Only way to play with people is outside communication for the most part. Unless you get a dialogue during a match with VoIP or randomly join parties.

[deep steeple]

I said that becasue you said the two buttons are already there, but that wasn't part of the problem at all lol, im not insulting you or anything

[crimson flax]

Maybe. The formation and leaving of parties during gameplay seems contradictory to the way things are built for consistent group play, but I think it adds in a certainly interesting dynamic and creates an archetype beyond again, red karmaed players that just murderhobo constantly.

See, here's the thing about being able to resurrect players outside of the party--I think its rather arbitrary to keep it tied to something like your party and I think keeping it something like a party invite will still have the possibility of griefing and bad-mannering towards players. So while I agree that the resurrection of all types of units in the game is very interesting and perfectly lends itself to the RPG aspects of the game, I think it definitely needs to be handled in not necessarily a different way--but to provide different incentives and reasons to do it in the first place.

[deep steeple]

At the end of the day, this game is about implicit competition for limited resources, adding more "make a friend" mechanics would be contrary to the premise. I think the reason you can heal enemies is because there are situations where its beneficial to heal them, or to position yourself to block them.

[rancid pebble]

solo is already the highest played category.

I believe it was around 60-65% of the games played

[mossy ruin]

Well all I am saying is that the present systems in place are what hold back resurrecting an enemy and that whether I word it well or not, the outside issues with the resurrection spell being cast are things that can be adjusted, but with what Working Union Man is saying thats a very palatable stance.

[deep steeple]

I think he meant in the non-solo lobby

[ripe haven]

theres always enough red portals to go around.

[mossy ruin]

I meant I would like to see more solo players in Castle and HR Castle.

[rancid pebble]

nvm I misread the line graphs, it is around 35%

[deep steeple]

there are 12 down portals, but only 4 escapes in hell. there is not enough for everyone

[shy orbit]

Wow, only 4

[ripe haven]

i didnt know that, i thought there were enoug blues in hell in my experiences. ive seen more than 4 in hell

[deep steeple]

how many people are in a full normal lobby again, anyone remember?

[shy orbit]

18, now.

[opal bone]

it's going to increase with B1 iirc

[mossy ruin]

I like the idea that Goblin Caves presents the playerbase and I think it was an exceptional attempt but it felt like a flop over all. I think the map size brought out the more glaring issues with their extraction system and the multiple layers and the lighting during pathing in the zone makes it less enjoyable than the experience should have provided in my opinion. Also since the map was small the loot was compacted and everything was awkward cause you were on just such a fast timer.

[ripe haven]

do u mean 1F, or do you mean B1, the floor we were all playing on?

[opal bone]

yes sorry 1F

[rancid pebble]

They considered it a great success but personally I did not like goblin caves, I spent a lot of time there and it felt fun but once the game full releases I feel like it will be useless

[deep steeple]

the dev's changed it, its no longer b1, b2, b3, its 1f, b2 and b3, but b1 = 1f essentially

[rancid pebble]

Does everyone else here think that this implies different dungeons (not just forgotten castle but another dungeon) can be accessed from f1?

and will we have a highroller f1 or will everyone spawn into f1 and have to decide to go to highroller from in the dungeon

[opal bone]

I think they said 32? for 1F

[mossy ruin]

The terms are so annoying, can we all just say Forest, Castle, Hell or something

[mossy ruin]

I think we will continue to have a separate lobby queue that decides that we are in HR or Normal for the entirety of our adventure

[rancid pebble]

would make sense for the money cost, im so hype to see f1

[ripe haven]

HR > MMR

[rancid pebble]

real, im hoping for at least one more tier above that

[ripe haven]

i suggested a high stakes HR where you lose experience or the character, and nobody liked that idea

[deep steeple]

I just looked over vods and there are a total of 17 esacpe portals in b2 and b3. 13 in b2 and 4 in b3 so a total of 17 people can escape lol
idk why it was a reply to you cat lol

[rancid pebble]

id be down for that, maybe its too rogue likey for a multiplayer game

[mossy ruin]

I think I agree, but instead put a tier inbetween that costs less or the same as present thne raise HR

[ripe haven]

people cant handle real loss imo

[deep steeple]

the game is about loss not starting all the way over lol

[rancid pebble]

yea, this game has so many possibilities, especially with goblin caves. What they tell us by adding them and confirming they will stay next PT is that they are commited to several different dungeons with different experiences

Id even be down for an expensive highroller where you cant bring any gear into, might be controversial but that is the closest to MMR i would accept

[ripe haven]

i really hope its new modes. i liked the one idea about a procedurial dungeon with a roaming minotaur. peronsally, id like to see a low-stakes low-reward pve dungeon and pvp arena

[mossy ruin]

I would love special gamemode near end of wipe like this where we have certain game adjusting modifiers just to refresh our experience while we wait for reset date.

[ripe haven]

highlander high roller, where you go in all high roller w/ your party, but then at the end, there can be only one.

[rancid pebble]

schrodingers game, until release all of these are cannon and fake

kill your teammates THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE

[deep steeple]

the idea of different queues isnt bad on its own but it has the potential to split the playerbase, which has been a bad trend that killed some games (not all). I think the only different queues we should have are the map selections and the HR variation.

[mossy ruin]

I actually think that if we get more maps, we shouldn't be allowed to choose

[rancid pebble]

That was my thought, talked about it for a while with some friends and I hope that F1 is a hub of sorts as well as us getting cross-populated servers for faster matchmaking

[deep steeple]

I like the idea that all maps start with 1f but you get different b2's and b3's lol

although i wouldn't mind heavily stylised unique dungeons with three layers that you queue for jsut that

[ripe haven]

1F will favor rangers and druids probably

[rancid pebble]

Ye prolly, but if there are 2 levels with trees, than im going vietnam rogue on all them

[deep steeple]

me and the bois pulling up to next playtest as a three man rogue party:

[white cliff]

I think people get the wrong idea when they mention outside, it’s not just going to be open fields, there are going to be paths and buildings guaranteed that are tied to hit boxes and still mimic the maze like interiors that unify the game.

Or maybe I’m just completely wrong.

[ripe haven]

like smol village huts or a lone tower with some fencing

[white cliff]

I played expedition argetha recently so I’m thinking similar to that.

[ripe haven]

like smol rivers with little docks n buildings here n there

[deep steeple]

I think 1f will be more likely a ruins, very similar to the interior of b2 but outside and slightly more open. Maybe a broken castle or fort or something.

[ripe haven]

if we can have health pots and beer, what else can should be able to consume? i saw an suggestion for food, but wat about hunting on 1F and using campfires for roasting a thicc drumsticc

[rancid pebble]

idk man i like simplicity, adding things like that can become unnecessary and cumbersome

[ripe haven]

but wat if you could also attack people with the drumsticc

[rancid pebble]

;P

[mossy ruin]

I am with Cat, I would like the systems to stay simplistic. Although if they did add something like this, I would want things to be consistent across the board. If all of a sudden the only mechanic of its nature is some food mini game it would be offputting until more things fall in line, at least to me.

Side note though, a little food bag where we can fill it up during our time in the Forest would be cool to fill up and have a custom meal at the tavern. Thinking like Monster Hunter, eating before a raid could be a neat way to get buffs, falls in like with D&D and if they end up doing enchants and what not, why not food buffs :) Probably best to keep it a percentage increase of some sort nothing crazy just an extra element of activity.

[ripe haven]

did u say crafting system?

[mossy ruin]

Not quite, but I would be interested in a time gated type of crafting system where we give materials to a craftsman + a fee and he crafts our item (random stats) in say 1-3 hours

These type of mechanics could be part of a guild system if they wanted to, but I still dislike the idea of guilds for the most part, but as long as its not a guild in terms of allegiance but rather like a place of work its okA

[ripe haven]

for nomenclature purposes, is a clan similar to a guild, or is a clan system different?

[mossy ruin]

I have no idea about the specifics but only how the connotations feel to me. The connotation of clan is like a family and friends, where a guild is a group of like minded people, they can be familiar but it can also be business.

[tired ingot]

A little note on “adding weapons to the game” I thought I’d make a comment on from my suggestion, I feel like the particular weapon they add isn’t really important at all, Just that it has a new move set/ attack pattern

[deep steeple]

Hand crossbow for rogue confirmed already :)

[mossy ruin]

I would like them to really flesh out the present wepaons before they branch out and make more. But more is cool :)

[tired ingot]

Yeah I’m with you 100%, I’ve noticed a lot of the weapons don’t have an alt attack/block on the right click

Also like more “riposte” type attacks or other unique things that trigger under certain conditions like that would be cool for some of the weapons

[shell mountain]

I feel like cleric should also be able to use it since that class has zero range capabilities no throwables no nothing just blunt shield armor and healies

[ripe haven]

some guy in general says:

bear traps are only OP when played on a body, then they're perma traps of death

did anyone come across a bear trap that they could not release? is it possible a bear trap can be impossible to untrap?

[shell mountain]

I've never seen one that is impossible to untrap maybe like a blue tier one or something I feel like at a certain rarity they should have that unlock minigame that used to play or maybe that is already the case hell if I know

[ripe haven]

but if its under a body, is it possible to still destroy a trap by crouching and attacking the ground?

[shell mountain]

Oh that Yeah I uh can see that being a problem

[ripe haven]

my suggestion is still on cooldown for another ocuple hours so maybe someone else can throw it up there as a public service announcement

[shell mountain]

I'm still trying to think of something good like maybe a new spell for cleric or something, something like "praying" to regenerate some spells or something instead of hauling around 2-3 campfires

[ripe haven]

to avoid another mediatation-like spell, heres an idea for u. a perk that tracks the amount of healing youve done. once youve hit a mark, all your spells regenerate by 25% (so youd get 1 shield or heal back, youd get partial resurrection, etc)

*successful healing, meaning you cant over heal for more. you need X hp healed, whether its yourself, your buddy or even an enenmy

[shell mountain]

I was about to ask what about solo players they would have less people to heal and less outcome of heals I play mainly solo as cleric and just burn through my spells when I play with other people so I just thought maybe something like meditating would be cool to center it around the class cause "praying" is what the cleric does and thought he'd get on his knees and beg the lord for some more spells

I know people like diversity but me personally I like things that would help me live

[ripe haven]

so u want a meditation for clerics

[shy orbit]

Personally I think I'd rather have Wizards lose Meditate and have to carry campfires than Clerics gain a Meditate-like skill, but that's just me.

[ripe haven]

give wizards a way to actively regen, and clerics can have meditation

[shy orbit]

The thing is, I don't want to have the second skill slot tied up with a 'Get Spells Back' button. There are more interesting things to do with it, amply demonstrated by the Cleric's current choices.

[shell mountain]

Judgement

[ripe haven]

give wizards a passive that regens, so they can keep their spells

[tired ingot]

What do you guys think about a consumable item that you use like a surgery kit but it only gives spells back

[ripe haven]

so u want mana pots

[shell mountain]

Yeah a mana pot would be cool

[tired ingot]

Kinda… but it takes 15 seconds to use it

[ripe haven]

right, mana pots.

[shell mountain]

I thought it would be like some cool color then drink it and gain like 2-3 spells back

[vale briar]

Who tf is bard and why people keep imagining skills for him?

[shell mountain]

Musical man play music buff team mates and all that jazz like cleric or wizard but you have to press actual keys to play music from what I read

[ripe haven]

i have the best suggestion for bard go vote for ie

[tired ingot]

Yeah like the aesthetic could be a mana pot, but you don’t drink it and go about your business, you’re stuck drinking it for 15 seconds… or injecting it or whatever

[ripe haven]

.shortinfo 1651308

[eager sable]

Suggestion from Pallets & Hooks#1621

When the bard does not have any instrument or weapon equipped, instead of bare bear hands, he whistles at his enemies aggressively.

Opinion:

+83

Suggestions Feed Post

[Suggestions Feed Post](#d-and-d-suggestions message)

Suggestion ID: 1651308 | Submitted at · Mar 10, 2023, 9:01 PM

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[deep steeple]

Devs already stated cleric will have no ranged weapons :(

[shell mountain]

Now I'm going to cry

[ripe haven]

well like a health pot already takes like 10 sec, so idk i feel like the mana pot/consumable shouldnt hold you down

[ripe haven]

cleric has an undead nuke, cleric does not need range. im totally fine with no range, as long as the undead nuke remains very nukey.

[shell mountain]

15 seconds sounds like a lot how about 5? as a base and decreases depending on rarity

[deep steeple]

I'm not arguing he should lol he's where he needs to be

[ripe haven]

burns a small bag of herbs, like a stick/wrapo of sage, you have to burn it and it does an animation for 5 sec where you wave it around

[tired ingot]

Well, the only way to get spells back currently is with camp fire and meditation. I think it’s like that cause they don’t want you to be slinging spells left and right with huge sustain. It’s kinda like a valuable resource … at least how it balanced currently . Being able to get spells on the move would be very very strong , at least how it’s balanced currently

[deep steeple]

yeah this is a very intended mechanic. Spells are balanced by ammo and you can recharge spells for free at the cost of variety and time. (agreeing w you adding onto it)

[ripe haven]

old school dungeon n dragons have spell counts, the original dark souls did the same thing, you need campfires to cast spells again. diablo 1 was crazy with the mana system

[mossy ruin]

Clerics shouldnt get meditation or at least, it shouldn't be taken FROM wizard. Unlike Wizard, Cleric can still operate without spells, the Wizard very much uses the spells he casts to play his class. Yes ideally the Cleric casts, but they have access to heavy armor, shields, warmaul and maces. Both classes have access to quarter staff but the wizard has to cast with his OTHER slot to give himself ignite and has significally less durability and HP than Cleric when Cleric can run Smite/Judgement/etc where as wizard cant. If there was a new mechanic to give Wizard was to get spells sure, but he really does need to be able to cast, its his whole identity.

[ripe haven]

if cleric had a passive that could recuperate some spells, but not as large of a return as meditation, that might be more appropiate for cleric, if at all; otherwise, campfires.

[rancid pebble]

cleric should be able to pray at the altars or something, but honestly I like where they are at rn, you have to think about the whole match when you use spells

[mossy ruin]

I can see that, it does feel goofy to have no way to sustain Cleric solo, but as they state, they do balance for 3man teams so I figure they expect there to be an opportunity to campfire.

[ripe haven]

yea i think campfire is kind of a cop out, but it works so well for all the other classes, that there really isnt anything wrong with campfires. the fact the ranger can start with one only furthers your inference about 3 man parties

[mossy ruin]

After playing as much solo Cleric as I did I will admit, it feels like a gross bandaid fix that I hope they find a better solution to.

[ripe haven]

idk how else they can add any kind of regeneration for cleric spells. either you get a active ability, like meditation, a passive that builds up to regeneration, or a consumable like a campfire

[deep steeple]

Clerics are already super strong. But their strength is in their team play. Otherwise he's just a slight worse fighter with sustain. Sadly if they made him easier as solo, that would make him too strong, since he's the weakpoint that hold his team together in 3v3's

[shy orbit]

Clerics seem decently strong to me, I dunno. They aren't exactly duking it out with barbarians in melee, but nobody is so...

[ripe haven]

yea i agree, cleric is favorably balanced already.

[deep steeple]

You can build a cleric to be an arguable better fighter with a more limited weapon selection

[mossy ruin]

Yeah, or you could buff ur fighter :)

[deep steeple]

smite + divine strike + divine protection + brawler + bless + big stick + drunk fighter + beer = a lot of damage and hp

you cant give your teammate smite or beer trait hehe unfortunatly

[shy orbit]

Yeah, a Cleric can stack themselves pretty well, and a lot of people haven't learned to respect it

[mossy ruin]

But I agree, Clerics are awkward because they are self sustaining short term. In fact I think campfires should be adjusted to only restore health and spells once per floor. Like how many times are you going to rest... On top of which it would make using campfires feel more like a decision to be held off on instead of just.. im missing 2 spell slots lets go.

The fact that they take up 2x2 slot kinda makes me feel like its not desirable(from a developer intent standpoint) to have a whole lot of them yet we put them in hotbar slots and bring extra anyways...

[ripe haven]

maybe there should be a dediccated spells regen consumable, like mana pots unforunately

[deep steeple]

that would break the game balance lol

[mossy ruin]

Oh maybe, yeah I kinda like that, but it does pull away from D&D. I like to think of suggestions personally that fall in line with Dungeons and Dragons and bring systems over in my mind. And seems kinda spammy abusable.

[tired ingot]

Maybe one time use locations in the actual dungeon where spells can be recharged

Or “static” campfires that can be lit by the party for use

[ripe haven]

oh an altar!

[mossy ruin]

All im saying, playing Cleric felt nice this PT with all the campfires, but it gets old, in Tarkov after fights you take time looting, filling mags, and healing, really recovering from a fight. But in DaD we pop a spell or 2 and campfire away

[ripe haven]

naw DJM has it, there has to be an altar that replenishes spells. that is the idea that would supplement the needs without breaking the games chemistry and kit balance. solid idea, sir

[ripe haven]

no thats not what you said, i know wat u said, i put the words into your mouth now chew

[mossy ruin]

I like the suggestion, but this would lead to an objective only privy to casters and in the future I dont really think casters need to have much 'recharge.' That is inherently their weakness as a class in D&D, they run out of spell slots.

[ripe haven]

oh yea like how resurrection favors parties and the health shrines favor solo rogues?

[mossy ruin]

Thats not really an apples to apples comparison. A mechanic that only casters use versus a mechanic that rogues often get access to because of action speed+movement speed.

[rancid pebble]

this is the only consistently active chat on this server, the gap between playtests too long :((

[shy orbit]

I have never used a campfire as a cleric to get one or two spells back, unless that spell was Sanctuary. I don't think devs need to make a new item just for people who want their spell lists 100% topped off at all times

[ripe haven]

but wat about how resurrection is dead useless to solo players?

[tired ingot]

Well, I’m not sure this is a bad thing. If it’s in a room with a lot of mobs and traps and no loot, you don’t really want to be going there… it’s just there if you have no other options

[mossy ruin]

Well the game is intended to be group play, so as long as they balance and focus on that, thats a question for them, the Developers. Within reason thats fine. But I do see what you mean. Maybe in the future the resurrection tablets will be removed in a later version who knows.

[mossy ruin]

I see your point, and this is a valid one but then you spend all this time clearing it without spells. If this is High Roller, your group is just dead if your caster is empty. If this is normal, just go next, you probably spent those spells on players. Its a kinda interesting idea but this version also makes it less counter play, no one can get in the room ahead of time and hold it as a gank spot and its not something you can do to 'make up' for some sort of wasted fight.

I guess if its HR you could have wiped the lobby persay at this point and you are getting your caster back to full. But if this was something parties had to do, they would just opt to not have a Wizard. Cleric would be ok without ever having a way to get spells back, but a Wizard really doesn't share this luxury.

And if lobby is wiped, ur going downportal probably, but again if you wiped lobby, you probably are stacked on loot unless you are a bossing group. But then your partying setup isnt even running Wizard.

Of course a lot of this assumes a group that follows meta, and its still in its infancy for the most part, BUT a lot of people wouldn't want to deal with the hassle of clearing a room for a shrine that refills spell slots for a caster.

I think an ideal option really is just not allowing a player to gain the benefits of campfires more than once per floor. Or have a max HP/Spell slot return per floor.

I like the idea of one campfire per floor, but if thats the case then they need to buff grey grey and grey campfires.

[ripe haven]

yea wizards have the need, clerics are in a good spot, but i dont think campfires need to be adjusted at this time. maybe the skill trees will cause campfires to become outdated/rudimentry

[tired ingot]

Yeah this is pretty spot on, It WOULD suck and not really be what you want to be using your time for, but it is there as an option . I think I like this idea more than a consumable or meditation for cleric cause it maintains game balance like Tim said. The other thing to consider is that I’m pretty sure they said all classes will be able to cast spells eventually but I could be wrong

[mossy ruin]

In terms of gameplay necessity, yeah mayhaps, but in terms of gameplay intrigue and good decision making I find the idea of spamming campfires each raid already outdated/rudimentary

[mossy ruin]

I heard something similar, I want to say it was all classes will have access to spells, or magic. I prefer the speculation that it would be in the form of magical items, scrolls, and/or skill tree specialization options like giving Rogue the ability to open doors from afar.

I truly expect the game to get a new system that is very different from hitting Q and E for skill/spells because going forward if classes do get spells that presently dont it would muddy the character options. Yes everyone wants more options, but being awkwardly gated between Q and E when we could have a designated casting key in the future would really be nice imo.

[ripe haven]

put a cooldown on campfires problem solved

[abstract swallow]

It's important to realize that the previous playtests have a much, much faster pace than the feature complete game is intended to have. Downtime periods like Meditation and Campfires are a big part of the 'endurance' aspect of dungeon delving that the game will emphasize in the future as more RPG and dungeon crawling mechanics are implemented.
If anything, expect more situations and opportunities for resource management and resting.

[mossy ruin]

Yeah which could very much mean a lot of this speculation is already in mind from the developers.

[ripe haven]

anything intuitive that has been discussed here by fans, has already been discussed by devs 3 months ago

[tired ingot]

Dedicated casting button, or alternatively just using right click on your mage staff, crystal ball, etc. for spell casting would be a good idea. That’d let the devs make more unique skills and would let us spec into more play styles

Ah wait no you’d definitely need a dedicated button to choose the spell

[mossy ruin]

Yeah, but you are still on a good thinking path

[abstract swallow]

Better hotkeying for certain things would be very nice to have, though certain amounts of jank/anti-QoL are very intentional like cycling through pocket slots and having timers to equip gear.

[somber wind]

Could I get some feedback on these? I wanna nerf them to be more acceptable before suggesting it. Came up with some named item ideas:

* Torchbearer's Signet (Ring): Increases Torch light intensity. +10 Strength while you have a Torch in your Hand.

* Hush (Stilletto): This weapons attacks (and their impact noises) are silent.

* Crowdbreak (Pavise): While crouched and blocking, pushes enemies out of the way that you walk against.

* Exorcism (War Maul): Deals +50% damage to undead.

* Soulprice (Amulet): Upon equipping gives you 10 bags with 50 gold in them. You cannot unequip this Amulet without having 10 bags of 50 gold in your inventory, if you do, upon taking it off the 10 bags of 50 gold are removed.

* Shimmerrend (Padded Tunic): Lowers damage taken from Epic or higher quality weapons by 30%.

* Berserker (Spear): When you take damage, gain a +15% damage buff for 10 seconds. This effect has 3 charges and can be recharged at a campfire. Effect does not stack with itself, it is instead refreshed.

* Chitinkin (Rapier): Deals +25% damage while in the Swarm.

* Unknowable (Castillion Dagger): On hit inflicts the Nameless debuff which causes the target to lose their name for 20 seconds and not be shown to their teammates on their hud.

* Blood Sport (Amulet): Grants you 10 gold upon killing a miniboss, boss or player.```

[atomic mountain]

• Hush (Stilletto): This weapons attacks are silent. *

[somber wind]

I feel like that makes it so you have to only use the Stilletto alone or it's worthless.

[atomic mountain]

Most use them alone anyways

[somber wind]

Eh alright

[atomic mountain]

• Crowdbreak (Pavise): While holding block, you may press the alt attack button to push enemies back and inflict a brief slow on hit.

[rancid pebble]

these are so creative and good

[somber wind]

I feel like Berserker might be much personally, considered getting rid of it.

[faint dirge]

Not looking at the numbers
But Fate is terrible to play with

[willow ibex]

whens next playtest?!?!?!

[rancid pebble]

check the announcments

[somber wind]

I agree, deleted. RNG for healing might be abit annoying.

[atomic mountain]

Can you explain Soulprice in more detail? What is the benefit + tradeoff?
I'd assume it's a BiS amulet that also requires you to allocate inventory space to wear it.

[rancid pebble]

I think having multiple uniques would be only fair for rings and amulets, everything else should have one, so the rapier one as well, while very cool and novel, would probably never make it to the devs

[somber wind]

So the idea is upon putting it on it grants you X amount of gold (where X is whatever is the least overpowered but still useful number we end up settling upon), but you cannot take it off until you pay it back.

[rancid pebble]

What if you die. Say you use all the gold and then die in the next run

[somber wind]

That is a question isn't it, let me think about that LUL

[rancid pebble]

Would probably still be fair tbh, if ur willing to get rid of a 6 enchantment unique amulet..

[atomic mountain]

So like a conditional-equip perma-gem, but gold is the gem

[somber wind]

Maybe you drop it like normal but you keep a duplicate of it with NO other modifiers or stats just the price needing to be paid back?

[rancid pebble]

idk mane

[somber wind]

Yeah pretty much

[atomic mountain]

Interesting, but mechanically complex

[somber wind]

So for example you could've rolled some nice effects on it but if you die, you drop it like normal but when you get back to the stash it's still equipped but it has no other rolled effects except "You must pay X gold to unequip this item".

The idea of it is you're potentially cursing yourself in exchange for money.

[rancid pebble]

interesting, im ok with the concept of cursed gear, but that gets into the whole topic of gear and rolls and stuff

[somber wind]

Yeah it might be too complicated even if I like the idea of complicated gear

Thoughts on gloves that only increase strength if you don't have a weapon equipped? Pugilist Wraps

[atomic mountain]

Maybe an alt idea would be

• Pursecutter : Every 5 minutes this item is equipped warrants X amount of gold to be withdrawn from your inventory automatically to keep the item equipped/active
  (Auto-Unequips if no gold is available)

[somber wind]

Oh and Cat, they've done suggestions before and they do have someone who reads alot of them. I've had actually a few of my suggestions get in.

[somber wind]

I like that, what would the upside be though? Just giving you money initially or?

[atomic mountain]

Perhaps it generates collectibles from player hits

[somber wind]

I like that, you try to chase profitability

[rancid pebble]

indeed

[somber wind]

I suggested in an early test swapping out the Triple Blue for Triple Red portals to encourage going down instead of leaving.