suggestion-discussion

[real trellis]

You're acting like this is a 'gotcha' moment like I haven't been clear on my opinions about the buff meta this whole time tf

[turbid ermine]

With buffs at 50% strenght to others, you get still rewarded for preparing combat longer (more buffs) as well as not dunking on any particular team comp, additionally most buffs are relevant at half strenght due to will scaling.

Idk what this vendetta is to destroy the current comp rather than bringing it down to the rest.

[real trellis]

Limiting it to one buff per friendly buffer wouldn't destroy the concept of a cleric and wizard buffing a fighter or barb it would just bring the comp's power level down to a more reasonable level just like your suggestion would, except my suggestion would lead to more active involvement in fights by the cleric and wizard because they'd be spending less time buffing and rebuffing the frontliner

[turbid ermine]

It would destroy any comp with 2 or more buffers. It dumbs down preparation for combat as it's 1 buff and done.

With my suggestion buffed cleric becomes the best frontline as long as his buffs stand, encouraging them to go in with the barb in that specific team comp and adding more neutral mindgame into the mix.

[real trellis]

It doesn't destroy a comp with 2 or more buffers it just forces them to make value judgements and play the damn game instead of acting like that one scene in Overlord where the skeleton puts 50 buffs on himself for one fight

[turbid ermine]

And have 2-4 spells unused, been greatly out done by a 2 dps 1 buff comp as they can apply more buffs, dumbing down the entire preparation process by pre buffing as you only do 1 buff now.

Again, if cleric has the buffs be stronger on himself than the rest, people will use him as an actual frontline, because if they stand back they loose dps compared to a comp that does.

[leaden tide]

no they dont

Rangers outperform everyone in PVE, Mages is by far the best class in high end pvp and it's not even close.

[turbid ermine]

[silver obsidian]

again, the data just says otherwise. Like, you're welcome to try to explain the data away, but that's what it shows. Wizards statistically, at all brackets except top 200 where they're second, are mid at best and frequently the worst class in the game.

[leaden tide]

If you wanna go with what the data says then lets nerf fighter and barbarian to the ground

[silver obsidian]

I don't think any nerfs need to happen at all

[turbid ermine]

Maybe that is related to the horrible starting kit wiz has...

or the skill requirements to be an efficient wiz

[silver obsidian]

I actually think wizard starting gear is really strong. Blue pot is solid, and spells have okay base damage compared to other classes base weapon damages.

[leaden tide]

becuase they had the most kills in the playtest despite having less play count than ranger.

Let's also ignore the fact that the data doesn't take into account if classes are more likely to be buffed or not, also doesn't tkae into account starter kits, etc. Casual player Data is full of flaws and should never be taken seriously. You don't balance classes around the casual player, you balance them based on people who actual know what they're doing. You just gotta ensure that all classes are playable for casuals

[turbid ermine]

You start with the stick and only use magic missile for pve.

[leaden tide]

Which is not the case for the wizard having an absolutely ass starter kit while also boasting teh highest skill ceiling and highest skill floor class

[tight gale]

How hard is leaderboard?

[leaden tide]

And I'm sorry if you and your data don't agree with me, but any top 200 player agrees that wizard is busted for HR

[tight gale]

And kinda pissed i wasted my suggestion because it got blocked

[leaden tide]

Hard unless you have a good 3 man team and everyone has a LOT of time in your hands for the whole week

[silver obsidian]

well, that understanding might be why people think its bad. You don't pve on wizard in the starting gear. You gank people like a rat

[tight gale]

I think thats because of high skill roof, idk if this helps either argument but wizard seems hard and good

[turbid ermine]

low interact speed, low walk speed. You can't exactly not pve

[leaden tide]

That's exactly it. Also best scaling in the game, high utility kit, high damage that can't be countered with armor, etc

[tight gale]

What is best spell comp for wiz in a team?

[silver obsidian]

depends on gear

[tight gale]

How

[leaden tide]

Not sure not a wizard main

[tight gale]

Wait how do i get roles

[leaden tide]

#1026916693806686208

[silver obsidian]

yeah no on paper they're busted, just they're also made of paper and have many weaknesses so statically you get your highs with your lows. They're a very swingy class even at the highest tier. Legit they're the class of potential. Played optimally, this is the class that should be best. But, played by a human they're mid at best.

[turbid ermine]

wiz mid at best

[tight gale]

Fr wth

[silver obsidian]

it's what the stats show, lol; the like, purpose of the playtest and all

[leaden tide]

Tell me you never played HR without telling me you never played HR

[turbid ermine]

Wiz buff (haste) is the primary reason barb works in the current buffball meta. Wiz mathematically speaking has higher dps than rangers and has extremely strong area denial.

The stats take into account reular lobbies, where people died to spike traps, goblin warriors and their own fireballs.

[silver obsidian]

check out clowds vid homie

[turbid ermine]

I don't base my opinion on some random youtuber.

[silver obsidian]

he does the math to make the graphs to make his points its not opinion. I actually disagree with some of his conclusions, but he does his math well

[leaden tide]

Can't wait for fighter and barbarian to get nerfed while wizard getting a giga buff next playtest because that's what the "data" says, thankfully devs aren't idiots

[turbid ermine]

The stats that are flawed by using regular lobbies. Ranger has a burst yes, but the moment ranger has cooldowns, wiz can just sustain, while ranger dps drops.

[silver obsidian]

I don't think anything needs to be changed tbh. Like, release bard and see where things land.

[turbid ermine]

Rogue and wiz starter gear needs some buffin

[silver obsidian]

rogue maybe; that dagger is garbage

[leaden tide]

Wiz scaling needs a nerf and base damage needs a buff along with improving starter gear

[silver obsidian]

I honestly think it's just zap that's a problem if there is one. Make it a lightning spell.

[leaden tide]

Also haste nerf again, and again and again and again until barbarians are no logner unstoppable machines of destruction because of it

[dark rune]

Rogue needs to lose 1v1s against most other clases with starting gear

[leaden tide]

Zap is the just one of their problems, it's not even the worst problem the class has

[silver obsidian]

or, here me out, just release other strategies and counterplay. Bind is a spell that just shuts down barbs completely.

[inner ember]

You lads should make suggestions on these fire ideas

[leaden tide]

What the game needs is less casual players making balance suggestions

[inner ember]

Unless you think they're ya know anecdotal and pointless to discuss

[silver obsidian]

bro I had over 80 hours last playtest. Idk what the personal shit is here, lol.

[leaden tide]

Bind is a meme and barely any top cleric uses it due to duration being so low. You had a couple last play test just to feed their barbarians kills for leaderboard that was basically it

Must not have finished reading this sentence

[inner ember]

People crying about class balance thinking it achieves anything are clowns

[silver obsidian]

literally the best cleric in the game uses it; azadim

[turbid ermine]

Bind sucks and is not time efficient. It only works on braindead barbs that don't use francesca.

[inner ember]

Let the devs handle balance, game isn't even out yet

But muh leader board rank!!! Playtest rank wizard barb fighter nerf!!!

[silver obsidian]

yeah, thats what I mean. I just always feel a little bad for wizards lol. They're just not the boogiemen people think they are.

[turbid ermine]

I'm the top 3 pokemon go player and ur opinion is invalid

[leaden tide]

I didn't say that to you, I was just saying that casual players shouldn't do balance suggestions. Anyone who doesn't play HR frequently shouldn't be making balance suggestions. QoL suggestions everyone should be making them but experienced HR players should be the ones doing the balancing suggestions

[silver obsidian]

you jabbed earlier, so that's why I said something

[inner ember]

Bog the devs down with depressing balance tantrums on full release, not now lmao

[turbid ermine]

I have 5 copy pastas ready for that as well as a request to add a block function

[inner ember]

You can already block just need a shield

[leaden tide]

Because you're looking at casual data which is literally heavily flawed. Even HR data is flawed because it makes it look like barb is absolutely busted which it isnt lmao

[silver obsidian]

No, actually, the data is broken up into just hr, top 200, goblin caves even, we have a lot of data and they released more than they put into graph form for you to read

[leaden tide]

Which again, is flawed because it doesn't take into account the million different variables such as buffs

[silver obsidian]

You aren't just looking at kills though. You're looking at % extract, loot sold, etc.

[turbid ermine]

Shield doesn't block against emotional damage

[leaden tide]

irrelevant statistics for pvp, idc about the PVE aspect, i'm not arguing about that. Ranger is broken in PVE no one will ever argue otherwise

[silver obsidian]

absolutely not. How often you get to live is definitely a pvp stat.

[leaden tide]

No experienced player dies to PVE, so if you fail an extraction that's because you died to a player in HR at least, like I said, casual data is irrelevant

[silver obsidian]

okay, so, here me out here, if you fail an extraction in hr because you died in a pvp way, that's a relevant stat, lol.

[leaden tide]

it isn't because it literally doesn't matter since it's already tied to a pvp situation which is literally what I'm discussing here

[silver obsidian]

yeah so extracting is a pvp statistic. Just a stretch here, since this isn't a purely pvp game and there's pve if a class is dominant in pvp and sucks in pve, is that balanced?

[leaden tide]

Sure it is why not? You don't need to have classes that are good at everything. Hell, even having a pure pve class is fine

Diversity is good

[silver obsidian]

so, if wizard sucks ass at bossing, extracting, getting loot, dies more often than any other class, is it really a problem if at super high skillcaps they can make plays?

just keep in mind they aren't dominant statistically by any means

[leaden tide]

It is because it's not as simply as being a "very good" class. It's straight up broken to the point that they ranked #2 in kills despite being in a double buff barb meta with only 0.5% kills difference. Barbarian single handedly top #1 class in kills in HR thanks to Wizards alone

[silver obsidian]

ah, yes, and cleric absolutely isn't a problem despite being mandatory in basically every single comp at the high end, right?

[leaden tide]

top 3 barbs last playtest made up for 10% of all barbarian kills in HR IIRC and it was all thanks to wizard haste buff

[neat shard]

dark and darker please full release. i want to quit tarkov so badly

[leaden tide]

They're the only support class in the game, of course they're mandatory until we get other support classes. Wizard is literally the jack of all trades, master of all. They have the best DPS in the game, can't get countered by armor, has the highest speed in the game with haste, has a better invisibility than rogues do, has AoE damage, hitscan zap AND provide the 2nd highest utility in the game turning barbarians into unstoppable killing machines

[silver obsidian]

while also being made of paper, extremely easy to fuck up, and on average worse than most other classes. Seems fine. High risk, high reward, as it should be.

[glacial sphinx]

Lmao, if a class could dominate thanks to wizards alone it wouldn't be only barbs at the top. You're putting all the power on Wizard buffs because thats a convenient cope for you. Wiz is barely even overrepresented in the very top compared to Barb and Ranger while being far more difficult to play. Barb needs nerfs, ranger needs nerfs. Wiz needs slight scaling nerfs and early game buffs. Jack of all trades is ridiculous when it does worse in literally every aspect of the game except top 200 pvp.

[leaden tide]

Yea good luck catching the fastest class in the game that can also go invis unless ur a sneaky rogue or another wizard and/or getting a headshot with VERY good gear as a ranger

^^ Tell me you never played HR without telling me you never played HR

[silver obsidian]

the amount of times I sniped an invis wizard based off of sound alone while they rushed with ignite dagger and 1 shot them makes me think this is just a skill issue 😛 I probably spent more time in hr than you did

[leaden tide]

Funny guy

[silver obsidian]

yeah, it's always funny when someone has to default to weird personal attacks when they can't cope. I'm going to bed, lol.

[leaden tide]

The whole discussion is moot when literally every single top hr player recognizes wizards as broken so your opinion, is honestly, irrelevant. But then again, let's see what devs do next playtest, lets see all the buffs and nerfs according to your statistical data

[placid elm]

Why people downvote suggs to cut down buff ball meta

[deft linden]

My suggestion got deleted lmao

[turbid ermine]

Because there's other better ways of doing it that don't destroy a particular team composition while encouraging clerics to go frontline

[placid elm]

its not about team composition, buff destroy every copetetive aspect of pvp

hit me with questions ill tell you how

[turbid ermine]

But his suggestion destroys 2 buffers 1 fighter comps because 1 buffer 2 fighters have more overall buffs.

The other suggestion of having all buffs not done to self be only 50% of the buff solves it. Additionaly that suggestion benefits quick and poor preparation over the 6-8 seconds it takes to fully buff a party, dumbing down preparation aspects.

If buffs are 50% to everyone else, cleric is encouraged to buff others AND himself, rewarding clerics for engaging in melee with high dps comparatively while also rewarding knowing when to disengage to heal the frontline

[placid elm]

preparetions is bad for pvp

its pve thing. Preperations in pvp means " picker advantage" - i ambush you - you cant react and die

[turbid ermine]

Good as it should be. You are unaware, don't have the resources prepared (fire bombs, pots, buffs, etc), you die. With this change, you get your pants down and a barb opens the door with a hit, you scramble to buff ur frontline and...grats, you are now only at a positional disadvantage nerfing ambushing and dumbing down awareness.

[placid elm]

it should not be able to counter mechanics in combat? WoW literally

[turbid ermine]

You shouldn't be able to counter your own mistakes. In this case awareness.

[placid elm]

what mistakes, you try to rationalize narrow understanding of pvp based on previous games you played. you cant counter buff ball, by having buff ball - buff ball is ofance, you cant have all bufs on you all the time

[turbid ermine]

You didn't read the other room, didn't hear the enemy and didn't prepare accordingly to them, they did. That is a mistake you made.

That's why the suggestion that a chad made a while back of reducing buffs applied to others by 50%, as I said, it fixes the buff ball meta and encourages clerics to actually engage in melee, risk, reward.

[placid elm]

yes reducing buff duration on other is "some solution" but imo thats not even half of the problems there is with it.

[turbid ermine]

Never talked about buff duration, but buff strenght. Buff duration is fine where it is because short durations encourage more turtling and less offense from the cleric as they just reapply buffs rather than engage.

[placid elm]

strenght is just cosmetic change, duration enables counter - run/ cc then counter offence and cast buffs just in time to make an impact

Haste attack speed puts to trash all weapon speed/dmg balance instantly - you cant block attack spams, you get one hit from invis etc

[turbid ermine]

cosmetic change? If I'm giving 40 shield instead of an 80, it's a huge change. If I'm giving them 50% of the current haste buff, it's a big change.
Current duration already enables you to run off, while letting the cleric do something else other than heal, buff, heal, buff. If you shorten duration cleric is just gonna reapply bot 24/7.

[placid elm]

besides there is also solo vs group aspect

[turbid ermine]

And now if cleric gets 80 shields instead of 40, cleric has an actual reason to be in melee

[placid elm]

60% of plays are made solo where severe buff put no chance to counter

[turbid ermine]

Balance shouldn't touch on solos. If I play solo I chose to do so. Making self buffing stronger also makes solos (cleric/wiz)stronger which ain't bad (indirectly).

[placid elm]

oly magic classses have self buffing

[turbid ermine]

coincidentally the class that many regard as the worst solo, cleric, would be getting a solo buff.

[placid elm]

there is a buff ball meta for a reason you cant reason that buff is good for solo . Try fighting someone who has tripel your speed, 6 times attack speed and 3 times your HP

[turbid ermine]

Hence why making buffs 50% stronger to others would fix this issue. Some people would begin to pick a dps over another "buff" or be offensive with their buffers as you loose the dps race otherwise.

[placid elm]

reducing duration better solution

[turbid ermine]

Not really, because it will make clerics into reapply bots.

[placid elm]

you have to time buffs then. easier to counter . win-win

[turbid ermine]

If a cleric is forced to consistently apply buffs, they will never engage in melee. Buffs also remain extremely strong.

[placid elm]

No, why the idea combat has to be buff fights.

you can make castng times low and duration short

[turbid ermine]

Because that's the whole thing cleric does, buff himself to fight or others to fight. If you make buffs shorter cleric will just actively buff and heal others rather than be in melee, risking himself for a dps reward. With your options battles may even devolve into double cleric to bring more spells into the mix so you can keep the buffs longer.

[placid elm]

as i wrote above, besides its wizard buffs what are really broken when applied to others not cleric

[turbid ermine]

The agility barb got from bless almost rivaled haste. Holy strike makes barb reach 1-2htk breakpoints much easier.

That's why making all buffs applied to others be 50% weaker would be a better idea.

[placid elm]

thank you for saying that, thats another reson to nerf buff untill we make unbuffed combat competetive, and make clerric more self buff / heal and short buff to others

and thats another reason why its bad for solo vs group

[turbid ermine]

If you make unbuffed combat stand to buffed combat, buffs become irrelevant, they should always be an asset, but nerfing them may encourage people to replace a part of the usual comp with maybe a ranger to get a bit more dps.

The current issue is that buffing provides too much, they increase your neutral game too much (haste), they buff your damage over limits it should never reach and they increase the survieability a bit too much (boss oriented, atm any defensive buff is outshined by offense)

[placid elm]

it will always be an asset. but then you finally agreed to what i have been saying buff combat needs to be nerfed

only self buff needs to be looked on with more care to not destroy magic classes. but haste is still giga broken in the aspect of attack speed.

[tawny python]

a good geared cleric can buff upto +8 all stat right ?

[tawdry star]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

[sacred thorn]

A good solution to not ruin the buffers themselves

[tawdry star]

Glad my suggestion went over well!

[sacred thorn]

Have you made a suggestion on this?

[turbid ermine]

no, someone did a while back

[tawdry star]

"[Upon character creation/every 5 levels up to 20, allow players to allocate 1 or 2 points to ability scores permanently. A fee based on the players total level could be paid in order to respec these points. This would add more interesting progression and build variety.]"

Thoughts?

[inner ember]

I'm hoping skill trees will satisfy the need for further customization

I think being able to allocate points at will opens the gate for too many limit breaking builds which the devs don't really have the time to deal with right now, plus it minimizes the effectiveness of important item rolls as you could already be hitting soft caps easier

[tawdry star]

I personally dislike the reliance on rolls as the meta for builds atm

[inner ember]

It's pretty core to the genre

[tawdry star]

I think some if it should be able to be controlled by the player

[inner ember]

Then you aren't incentivized nearly as much to fight PvP or PvE for better stuff

I'm still on the fence about being able to reroll items in any capacity

[white cliff]

@brazen stirrup lvl15-20 isn’t really a hard requirement, and although 100g isn’t a lot it’s some type of gold sink.

[brazen stirrup]

nah I know getting to level 15 or 20 isn't hard, but I feel like it would balance out the game a bit and I think maybe a lot of players stay away from high roller because of the 100g fee, that's at least what it felt like last couple of playtests where u could join a lobby and you and your party was the only one in the dungeon..

[white cliff]

Yeah I’ve never seen these mysterious one person lobbies but 100g isn’t a lot.

[brazen stirrup]

Ye I know gold isn't rly worth anything in this game, these lobbies do exist though I think many ppl has experienced it..

[white cliff]

@vapid hound Increasing cleric interact speed would be a bad change because campfires.

[turbid ermine]

Cleric interact speed is good as is atm or u run into the problem above

[vapid hound]

Why would that be bad @white cliff

[white cliff]

I mean gold has value, but 100g isn’t a lot, like everyone in this game had 100g at some point. I don’t think that was what kept people out of HR.

[pale ruin]

#d-and-d-suggestions message did this guy even play the last test lmao, it already has a level limit

[brazen stirrup]

Just my assumption 🙂

[white cliff]

Because clerics have limited spell slots, they need to regenerate them. Increasing interact speed allows them to place campfires faster.

[pale ruin]

Tho it was added pretty late iirc

[white cliff]

It has a requirement, he’s saying drop the entrance fee. Maybe read the suggestion?

[turbid ermine]

100g+ is a single library run ussually

[pale ruin]

I did read it, ik he wants to get rid of the fee but just pointing out that there is already a level limit as well.

[vapid hound]

@white cliff i dont see the issue during team play youll always have a faster interaction user like ranger/rogue, i play almost exclusivly a cleric and i dont even bither interacting with chests etc because someone else in the team will loot it and run before im even half way through the interaction

[white cliff]

I also exclusively play cleric, T100 for the class, increasing interact speed makes you place campfires faster and allows you to refill instant heals, and protects which I assume you know are strong. Doing this would make the class too strong in fact. Hope that clarifies things.

[turbid ermine]

As it should be. Everyone should have something they do and don't do well in a team (at base, obviusly)

[vapid hound]

@white cliff if the only reason not to increase interaction speed is campfire placement then id wonder why play cleric expect to be a pocket healer

@white cliff its just really painful most of the time where you kill the last boss but dont get the same loot as others because the interaction speed is so painfully slow

[white cliff]

Because cleric has strong spells, much like wizard. Maybe just play with people who split loot lol.

Interact speed is important for class balance not just opening containers.

[vapid hound]

That seems abit of a cop out for reasons not to change, much like wizard can meditate all spells back clerics cant they already have points of pain slightly increasing interaction speed shouldnt be one of them, it makes the class fundimentaly less fun to play i dont get the logic of placing a campfire will instantly make them gods

[faint dirge]

Its not only about a campfire

[tawny lagoon]

People didn’t go HR because competition is much tougher, and you need to bring good gear to stand a chance, which makes you loose much more than 100g

[faint dirge]

Also since you always have a ranger or rogue, let them place it for you

[vapid hound]

@faint dirge thats why im saying it shoouldnt be an issue to slightly iincrease the interaction speed as i suggested

[tawny lagoon]

Every class has the same ammount of total stats distributed, so what stat do you lower

[faint dirge]

Slight increase wont even change anything, youll still give rangers / rogue the campfire
It would just result in a buff for a already strong class

[faint dirge]

True, give rangers strenght/agility and take away some of 25 resourcefulness

[tawny lagoon]

Every class would love to dump resourfulness lol

[proud tinsel]

you would basically be giving everyone free gear. That and they would all take agi leaving no variety

as crafting becomes more important so will resourcefulness

[tight gale]

You cant say craving

I think thats what blocked my message in suggestion making thing, just 6 more hours 👍

[wispy echo]

your OC is cute but your suggestions are cuter +++

[tawny python]

ye i mean it aint fair . some class have good default while other have bad one

[harsh belfry]

@gloomy cradle you farm rings by killing other players lol.

[gloomy cradle]

Taking someone else's rings doesn't create more rings though. Just changes ownership.

[scenic notch]

Add John wick to dnd I want to griddy as joh wick dnd

[neat horizon]

#d-and-d-suggestions message maybe a small crossbow contraption on his hand that allows him to shoot quick but low damage projectiles. and it would be an ability

[onyx sundial]

#d-and-d-suggestions message give me some feedback solo players

[ripe haven]

I really need my offline/LAN mode up votes or I'll become ensaddened.

[wispy echo]

almost certainly coming next playtest, devs confirmed they're working on 1H crossbows and they'll almost certainly be available to rogue

and @scenic notch maybe Artificer will get a gun, who knows 👀

[silver umbra]

hey where you seeing the confirmation on things fella 😮

[wispy echo]

i don't think the amount 75 vs 100 matters much, just ATM HR entry only costs one person, so a solo pays 100g and a trio pays 100g, the trio can rotate between them but the solo pays every time... they should make it so everybody has to pay, whatever the price is

[wispy echo]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rLKRGAABMVAO_hS0obLkWhNqcNYuaaOHRIA_B0dhsXQ/edit

[ripe haven]

I doubt there will be an artificer.

[white cliff]

They’re adding all the classes from 3e.

[silver umbra]

you do gods work, thank you friend 😮

[ripe haven]

Where did you read this ?

[lusty wren]

Lots of people say this, but have they actually said this? Everyone who says it fails to have a source

[wispy echo]

wait this is actually not the newest QnA, there's a newer one where they mention the 1H crossbows

[ripe haven]

They said they might add the 12 classic classes. They said they might do subclasses in the skill trees. I believe they won't have dedicated classes like artificer and necromancer.

[scenic notch]

Add John wick and Thanos!!

[onyx sundial]

wait tf i didn't even know it was only 1 fee per party as well thats even worse than i thought

[silver umbra]

Thank u sir - I will read these. This game man - so exciting

[wispy echo]

it should charge everybody idk why it doesn't

[ripe haven]

There's only one goblin at the kiosk, he just says 100g and let's whoever pass once the coin bag drops.

[onyx sundial]

welp guess my post got shit on anyways probably by group players RIP

[smoky yoke]

there was a picture with the first initials of classes
but i don't remember if was just a general idea or not

[ripe haven]

Pure heresay, you say?

[wispy echo]

i also remember this but dunno where. This is also how people know that druid is most likely class to come after bard

[ripe haven]

Can't spell heresay without heresy.

[white cliff]

That’s because it’s in one of the original QnA’s/interviews.

[wispy echo]

it was definitely the devs teasing what classes they were working on

[ripe haven]

Would you please dm or link me this picture?

[lusty wren]

This can be sourced though unlike the other. 😄

[wispy echo]

nope good luck 🙂

[ripe haven]

Idk about anybody else but when I see a wall of text on a suggestion, with multiple suggestions, and specifics, I can't read it and immediately down vote.

[pale ruin]

Bad suggestion, downvote.
I dont like this guy, downvote.
Too long, downvote.

[ripe haven]

You should put that up as a suggestion

[smoky yoke]

#suggestion-discussion message
here the picture
and I can validate it is authentic as picture, because the same sent by sdf
however it was their initial idea for what the developer said once

[ripe haven]

I trust you warden. Let me review.

[tropic yacht]

Arent campfires kindve a weird mechanic? You have to tell everyone to get ready to press on the campfire as soon as it is placed to get the max heal

[ripe haven]

Barbarian
Rogue
Ranger
Cleric
Wizard

Bard

A
D
M
Pa
S (e or c or maybe u)
W

[smoky yoke]

yes

[amber solstice]

Artificier, Druid, Monk, Paladin, Sorcerer, Warlock

[smoky yoke]

artificer
druid
monk
paladin
sorcerer
warlock
these are the classes from the third edition like Jkidd said

but again, just theories for now, really
but i guess it makes sense
it was a tease from the dev

[ripe haven]

Speculatively:

A could be artificer or alchemist given pots in the library
Druid obviously
Monk obviously
Paladin thank God
S (e or c or maybe o as in) sorcerer obviously
Warloxk obviously

[lusty wren]

ya, with how much they say experiment though Id assume class plans can change pretty rapidly especially with how old this "list" is

[ripe haven]

I really doubt the artificer. But it's totally feasible. Alchemist would make a better supporting role than artificer would imo.

[smoky yoke]

yea things could change

i'm more hyped for the possible experiment for the race with dwarves
mentioned in the recent qna

diversity with hitboxes imo is fine

[ripe haven]

I will say, as much as I dislike artificer as a class, the dwarf artificer = gnome fun fact I also detest gnomes

[lusty wren]

also are artificer and alchemist even 3e base classes?

[smoky yoke]

We left it open for experimentation in the form of "Race". The Race, which has a small hitbox like the Dwarf, is something to test out. However, if this breaks the balance too much, I will remove it. However, this experiment will be possible in the very distant future.

[ripe haven]

3.5 I think

[lusty wren]

ya I am going thru 3e now and I do not see them

[amber solstice]

Just make them wider. But yeah chances are youll see everyone be dwarf unless the penalty is like move speed.

[smoky yoke]

i hope the roaster will be very big
so there is more variety

[ripe haven]

It must be 3.5e. I mean it's their game, if they add artificers, I simply have a target to focus on.

[lusty wren]

Sure, but the statement was all 3e classes so it was confusing 😄

[ripe haven]

Agreed. Wider hit box for chunky dwarf boys and bearded girls

[smoky yoke]

humans would have more advantages usually because the average player aims for the torso
so dwarves being not tall, humans would hit very likely the heads of dwarves easily

and dwarves maybe would have difficulties to aim the head of the humans lol

[ripe haven]

But a dwars fighter named Red would make me chuckle

[smoky yoke]

i like diversity
needs to see how it will be, when they will do the experiment

[atomic mountain]

Dwarf just needs a buckler to hide his whole body 😂

[ripe haven]

I like diversity too. I'm hoping there's big differences between all the classes, a real flavour palate.

[atomic mountain]

What do dwarves taste like?

[ripe haven]

Beef

[atomic mountain]

Jerky?

[ripe haven]

No like ground beef. 80/20, they're kinda greasy

[atomic mountain]

That’s true
And lots of hair 😩

[ripe haven]

Elf would be like white chicken meat

[atomic mountain]

I feel like elves would be fishy

[ripe haven]

You can make a nice bone marrow soup stock from red skeletons as well, they have a hint of chili already in there

[atomic mountain]

Damn.
Campfire Dungeon Cooking
with Tim and Dolan

Bats are too gamey, and not enough meet on the wings

[ripe haven]

Welcome to our kitchen! Yes, yes, today we have something special for you. We originally had a surf n turf planned out for this show however there was a shortage on merfolk! We have no idea when our supplier will restock on this, so we are trying something different: dirt n turf! That's right, we are going to do our planned rosemary elf meat along with some freshly ground dwarf! Be sure to like and subscribe for more great recipes...on the Tim and Dolan Camping Dungeon Cooking Show!

I really should have streamed my playtest 4. Oh well, there's always play test 5....and my baby's due date is the day after. Super busy April.

[atomic mountain]

Just delay the baby release date

[ripe haven]

My wife's sick of her sht

[atomic mountain]

🤣

[faint dirge]

How is someone upvoting

#d-and-d-suggestions message

[ripe haven]

Self up vote

[faint dirge]

Theres no counterplay to magic damage already

[ripe haven]

Idk why anyone down voted my offline LAN suggestion. Some people just want others to suffer i guess.

[faint dirge]

Why would you delete the only counterplay existing (barb 100mr)

Also 50% is way too high for a normal perk

[atomic mountain]

It’s a spell
Melt is already at 50% (physical though)

[mental lance]

Probably because it’s a bad idea

[ripe haven]

Explain yourself before I block you forever, for this ridiculousness

[faint dirge]

Send link

[mental lance]

Im good

[atomic mountain]

Offline mode is a no brainer, win-win idea

[ripe haven]

.shortinfo 1650615

[eager sable]

Suggestion from Pallets & Hooks#1621

LAN/offline game mode, similar to open battlenet from ages ago. Can't use your live service characters, but you and your buddies can play during periods where live services aren't available.

Opinion:

+48

Suggestions Feed Post

[Suggestions Feed Post](#d-and-d-suggestions message)

Suggestion ID: 1650615 | Submitted at · Mar 10, 2023, 1:36 PM

Protip: You can join the Suggester Canary program to help test new bot features before they are released to the main bot. Join the Support Server for info!

[faint dirge]

No melt is a perk

[atomic mountain]

Oh Melt is a perk yeah, but it’s application is spell dependent is what I meant to say sorry 😅

[smoky yoke]

does ignite works with spells? when igniting for example the spellbook

[atomic mountain]

I don’t see a problem with adding more magical resistance reduction, but I’d also want as a condition : more resistance rolls / consumables / perks / etc

[atomic mountain]

It used to, but they changed it
Melee Weapons only now

[smoky yoke]

ah i see

[mental lance]

Can you ignite a torch

[smoky yoke]

the real question

[atomic mountain]

That is a good question

It does do physical melee damage, but it isn’t a ‘weapon’ so my guess would be nope

[faint dirge]

Igniting wall torches

[mental lance]

Rogue abilities apply to it

[atomic mountain]

Well my guess has now changed

[smoky yoke]

worked with throwing knives i think
but not sure if they changed cause last playtest i played more other classes

[atomic mountain]

But you can apply Rogue abilities to throwable knives, but cannot Ignite a throwing knife

[smoky yoke]

scammed by the wizard

[smoky yoke]

there is some lore about this

[ebon idol]

In DnD 3.5e, weapons enchantments often have the caveat that they disappear when the weapon leaves your hand.

And since other ranged weapons don't leave your hand (bows deal damage, not arrows in 3.5e as rules per written) Enchantments on bows work, but not on throwing weapons.

[ripe haven]

Elden Ring really neglected bow builds.

[neat horizon]

I hope bard will be playable

cause if he's just gonna walk around playing music than it won't be too enjoyable

even cleric has a mace and shield to fight with

[ripe haven]

el kabong!

[faint dirge]

Imagine your getting tortured by a bard playing awfully

Walking around and damaging the enemies ears
Thats broken

[lone crescent]

I guess bard will have some kind of sword as weapon

And maybe flute, lute, lyre and stuff like that. Singing too would be cool

[pallid vapor]

Bards are proficient with lots of weapons in d&d lol. They aren’t just gonna make a useless class. they’re gonna be a mix of spell caster and melee combat, probably on the squishy side though so they’ll prob try to stay back and cast support spells

[lone crescent]

Maybe a rapier would fit

[pallid vapor]

My guess is they are going to have songs for spells, and they are going to act as aoe buffs for Allies or debuffs for enemies

Maybe a small aoe heal. Aoe movespeed. Aoe defense. Maybe an aoe slow debuff. That might be a bit strong lol

[lone crescent]

Or maybe some aura that buff everyone in aoe while he keeps playing or singing

Imagine a Bard following the Barbarian while playing to keep the buff up lol

[pallid vapor]

Yeah def rapier and other swords is mostly what they use in 5e. I think they use bows too but I hope they don’t give them bows lol. Idk maybe it’d be okay

[smoky yoke]

oh haste and invis has been nerfed already iirc
more nerfs?

[lone crescent]

Maybe they should make that when you are invisible you still have the afterimage of haste on

[smoky yoke]

ah that could be interesting

[lone crescent]

To prevent using them together and being OP without actually nerfing them

[smoky yoke]

yea makes sense

[sudden glacier]

honestly ive been watching the top 1 mage and he is just a better rogue, he uses the crystal ball with the dagger and one or two shot people with invis and haste

and also the buff your tank meta is broken

[atomic mountain]

A mage can use invis more aggressively
A Rogue isn’t able to do so

[smoky yoke]

oh didn't check who was
but when i hear crystal ball and dagger with ignite, it reminds me apollo

[sudden glacier]

yeah apollo

[smoky yoke]

yes glass cannon frontliner

[mental lance]

Wizard invisibility should break as soon as you move. Doesnt make sense for it to be so strong

[smoky yoke]

fireball to break doors
ignite > haste > invis
And we are in

[lone crescent]

2 hits of crystal sword with ignite and you dead

[smoky yoke]

if it then, they should increase it slightly the duration if you cannot move with it

[lone crescent]

It's broken right now, 1 kill is guaranteed

[sudden glacier]

II think there should be a slow after the effect is over

[smoky yoke]

ahah yea that is some nice damage
but it is also true that wizard in a few hits, and they ded too, but of course depends gear by gear and buffs ect

[atomic mountain]

The Rogue is a defensive ambush class in a “Buff Up and W key” meta

Is this good or bad? Idk.
But playing the Rogue diff than how they are optimally played probably results in a lot of people thinking they are useless, rather than just a little weaker than most in most situations

[mental lance]

When i think of a wizard i think of someone slow like gandalf. I cant picture gandalf running at mach 2 stabbing people

[smoky yoke]

rogues as the recent dev qna, will have new possible features
so there is hope for rogue too

[lone crescent]

Yeah but a Barb can do the same if you cast haste and invis on him.
Meta can't be bodyblocking doors everytime you fight a Wizard

[smoky yoke]

crossbow wizard when invisible also was a nice build

[mental lance]

Haste should only be an attack speed buff imo.

[atomic mountain]

Wizards wear cloth and leather, why would they be slow enough to ask for a Senior Discount without ID?

[sudden glacier]

1. barb 2. wiz, cleric 3.ranger 4. fighter 5.rogue in my op of the last playtest

[atomic mountain]

Haste would be useless for a Wizard with only attack speed. Please come back down to earth

[lone crescent]

Gandalf goes in stabbing people and uses almost no magic lol

[mental lance]

It’s a team buff. Not every buff has to be for yourself

[lone crescent]

Who said you should cast it on yourself?

[mental lance]

It’s apparent watching top wizards that the issue is wizard invis and haste.

[atomic mountain]

Because it’s his spell lol what
Should a Clerics spells only apply to everyone but him? Please I beg you come back to the realm of sense

[mental lance]

Resurrect doesnt work on yourself

[neat horizon]

#d-and-d-suggestions message imo only arrows should set off traps

[lone crescent]

Yes but it's made to cast on teammates not on yourself.
It's made to be a team game

[neat horizon]

how would self ressurect even work? when you die you can't cast spells bozo

[lone crescent]

BuT iTs'S hIs SpElL

[atomic mountain]

Just because you don’t like Wizards because you are classist, doesn’t mean they should be gutted and hung in the center square guys lmao

[mental lance]

I like fun gameplay

[atomic mountain]

Wizard is the funnest class to play

[neat horizon]

wiz is pretty good ngl even a little too good if you know what I mean

[atomic mountain]

I have a theory that you had a tough time playing Wiz, but highly skilled Wizards made it look easy so now you’re on the “Nerf them for the 200th time” bandwagon

Make haste useless for the Wizard doesn’t sound like a reasonable position to me

[mental lance]

No I only play solo caves in like 10k gear sets so never had an issue. But watching high roller gameplay videos tells me that it’s wizard invis and haste that need to be nerfed

[atomic mountain]

Solo caves with HR gear, noob stomping 😅

[faint dirge]

Videos are a really bad indicator

[lone crescent]

It's not Haste or Invis that are broken, it's the combination of both that need to be nerfed

[neat horizon]

yeah I rememebr when I started playing wiz I was hitting my teakmmates too constantly so I was like this class is shit

[white cliff]

Gross, worse type of player.

[faint dirge]

Make ignite early stronger but late way worse and take away action speed from haste
Also make ignite viable to apply on other classes than wizard and cleric

[neat horizon]

but still either pro players make it look easy or not it's still very good compared to other classes. I don't see highlights with barbs destroying whole teams (unless he has a cleric behind him)

[faint dirge]

Also imo ignite wizard is boring af to watch play and play against

[shrewd wasp]

You must not be looking too hard

[neat horizon]

I mean his kit comes together way too strong

[shrewd wasp]

They just need to buff base stat and nerf scaling

[atomic mountain]

Wizard has a tough start.
Their dmg potential on the high end is too high, but I don’t think self casting buffs makes them godlike by any means

[mental lance]

I just don’t like 1v3 fights

[neat horizon]

maybe if you could cast haste and ignite only on teammates then it would be fine

[mental lance]

I mean light orb is basically useless. Haste could be made basically useless. Still wouldn’t be anyway if it was only the attack speed buff

[lone crescent]

They made a solo map, why playing it should be gross?

[shrewd wasp]

Just delete wiz then

[neat horizon]

wdym?

[faint dirge]

That would make him a supporter which is kinda lame

[neat horizon]

Cleric wouldn't be all by himself lmao

[lone crescent]

This comment @neat horizon

Didn't they wanna make Wizard a buff and support class and give all the dmg spells to Sorcerer in the future?

[neat horizon]

i hope

if wiz kit was distributed into 2 classes: buffer and damage dealer than it would be awesome

[mental lance]

They should give wizard a portal spell out of the dungeon but make the cast time a minute

[lone crescent]

Wizard will become a buff and melee class i guess and sorcerer a magic dps.
I can't confirm this 100% true but i think i read this somewhere

My guess is that this is true cause buff and dmg spells on the same class is just too strong

Or maybe he can start with trash spells in the beginning and need to spend points in skill tree to choose buffer or dps as subclass

[crimson flax]

legendary crack smoking in suggestions discussion as usual

[atomic mountain]

I’m saying

[neat horizon]

interesting idea

it would be cool if it also required an enemy sould heart

[neat horizon]

that's why Cleric is strong but nowhere near op - because he's focusing on 1 thing, nearly every class focuses on 1 thing with the acception of fighter who is just a good all rounder and said wizard

[crimson flax]

while i agree that we should have mechanics based on soul hearts, giving a godlike class an ability to arbitrarily decide when they can freely live the game is not it lol

[neat horizon]

maybe Cleric spell then?

[atomic mountain]

Can’t bring himself to agree with me because I disagreed with gutting the class so now the wild arm flailing tube man suggestions come out

[neat horizon]

or a portal would spawn at the very beginning somewhere on the map but noone will know where

[crimson flax]

no one should have the ability to leave the dungeon like this. it's unbelievably overpowered and goes against a ton of the game's design.

[neat horizon]

meanwhile goblin cave escape stairway

[mental lance]

A minute cast time is a pretty good balancer. Especially if it made noise

[atomic mountain]

Yeah they’re putting static escapes on the Ruin level too, But they are giving the “escape” ability to a class

[crimson flax]

that's completely different from being a class spell and you're being disingenuous lol. there are already several nearly 1 minute cd abilities that people complain about and their cd doesnt solve anything. good god lmao

[neat horizon]

it doesn't go against game design if its dearly limited and is just a cherry on top

[atomic mountain]

Come back down to earth, we miss you

[mental lance]

I said cast time is a minute not one minute cd

[crimson flax]

considering it entirely ignores mechanics like the circle, having to actually fight or deal with playing the game? yeah

[atomic mountain]

It reduces player interaction

[crimson flax]

again. a minute long cast time. is not going to fix the fact. it is insanely overpowered. cd. cast time. soul heart. whatever. this is ridiculous lol

[lone crescent]

Fighter can do almost anything but not all together, Wizard doesn't have to choose between buffer and dps, he does both

[atomic mountain]

He also doesn’t have armor what’s your point

[neat horizon]

a 1-use single escape for people who just wanna escape early so they rush there because they forgot something or brought something that they didn't want to bring is fairly reasonable imo

[crimson flax]

uh. no its not lol

[neat horizon]

why?

[crimson flax]

i already told you lmao

[atomic mountain]

I can’t be here. Someone ping me when the 10h playtime PvE enjoyers go back to general chat.

[lone crescent]

@crimson flax bro you can just run out of the safezone, heal up and then cast the spell. No one will run through several rooms out of the zone to see if someone is there

[crimson flax]

LMAO for real they gotta make a separate suggestions channel for this at this point lmao

[mental lance]

Someone casting a minute long spell that’s loud is going to signal to people that there’s a wizard who wants to escape nearby. I don’t see why that’s op

[lone crescent]

Sry i tagged the wrong person

[cursive kayak]

Wizards really want a spell for everything lmao

[neat horizon]

I can honestly bet that their first idea for excaping were stairways like these for everyone to use

[neat horizon]

right?

[lone crescent]

BTW the stairs in Giblin Caves act just like a portal, it opens at a random moment through the game

[mental lance]

Plus taking the spell made for a solo wizard means you lose out on a spell slot

[crimson flax]

cause its a huge map where players already dont investigate loud noises. and the strongest scaling class in the game doesn't need anything else when they already have nearly minute long mechanics in their base kit. the issue is not the time, or the auditory and visual. its the fact its unbelievably over powered and ignores the fact you have to play the game. especially with randomized spawns and people who actually know how to play the game, you can just. ignore. it's ridiculous

[mental lance]

Is it random? I thought it opened at 7 minutes or something like that

[crimson flax]

yeah i really dont understand this lol

[neat horizon]

maybe if there were special escape portals in b3 then sure but most ppl would use it early

[lone crescent]

No bro 3 is totally possible to survive 3 minutes outside the zone, you go in one of the spawn rooms on the other side of the map and cast the spell e times and easy escape

[mental lance]

They’d be less strong if they took this spell since it would take a slot.

[atomic mountain]

It’s 100% a lost child or a troll.
Same guy was advocating for Haste to be attack speed only

[crimson flax]

they have 5 spell slots and it wouldnt cause there's an abundance of spellslots lmao. what the absolute hell XD

[mental lance]

So make damage from the swarm disrupt the cast

[lone crescent]

I saw videos where it opens 30 seconds before the end, it's random

[cursive kayak]

The other day someone was saying they need more spells for melee range lmao cuz they can't get distance with haste and Invis

[neat horizon]

then maybe casting portals with enemy souls?

that could work. 3 souls = cast 1 portal

[crimson flax]

oh ok they have to be trolling, someone get a ban on that lmao

[lone crescent]

It's OP anyway, you kill 1 guy with good loot and you can run away and escape for free without risking anything

[neat horizon]

yea but you have to actually play the game to escape so it doesn't really go against game design besides I said 3 per portal

[atomic mountain]

Stop. Leave the Wizards alone. Got nerfed 200 times, least played class, least understood, most hated.

[lone crescent]

Yeah but the game is designed to fight for best position and control of the portals, escape need to be hard

[neat horizon]

that's the description of cleric at least the 'least played' part

[mental lance]

Minute cast time and loud noise makes it pretty hard

[atomic mountain]

You missed the #development Statistics?

[lone crescent]

Not out of zone

[crimson flax]

i got a better idea. lets just ignore them. they'll stop if we dont giv ethem attention lmao

[mental lance]

So make damage disrupt the cast

[lone crescent]

Then it should disrupt even resurrection and other spells

[mental lance]

I don’t see why all spells have to be the same like that

[atomic mountain]

Any cool suggestions about bosses they could add? Dragon is on the way (eventually)

[lone crescent]

A Wiz is charging a fireball, you throw something at him and stop the cast?

[neat horizon]

there are so many charts I don't understand

[neat horizon]

minotaur, underground goblin king (like the onefrom hobbit)

[lone crescent]

Dragon, Slime, some Orc General thing,

[mental lance]

I mean it makes sense from a storytelling perspective that a very powerful spell that takes a lot of focus would be easily disrupted

[atomic mountain]

You know what, that’s fair.
Check out this video that breaks it all down in a digestible way

https://youtu.be/lqFLcDOvGfg

[crimson flax]

yeah these are definitely middleschoolers lmao jfc bro said too many charts 💀

[lone crescent]

Demon King, Giant Spider

[crimson flax]

||we already know a pretty big demon is on the way, but we can't talk about it cause its a datamine||

[cursive kayak]

For the dragon they said your going to need multiple teams to fight it right so maybe they could have it so the dragon is in the middle and all the other teams are around it on different platforms but they can't hit eachother. So when the dragon eventually dies its up to the players to fight for the loot or decide if they wanna split it

[atomic mountain]

Demons are in the works, maybe they will have another boss version of the lessers but he can fly and knock back

[cursive kayak]

Where can I see this leaked info

[crimson flax]

someone made a video on it, ill see if i can find the link and DM you it

[sonic pendant]

just drop it here if a mod doesn't like it they'll scrub it

[lone crescent]

I think Dragon should be on some kind of tower map where you need to climb up instead of going down

[sonic pendant]

devs said dragons will take more than 3 to kill, so interesting team comps incoming

[atomic mountain]

Yeah but i doubt they’ll separate the teams

[crimson flax]

no thanks fed

[cursive kayak]

Think they have to otherwise people would troll lol

[lone crescent]

Imagine 1 guy looting and the other 2 in the team as sentinels to prevent beteayal lool

[sonic pendant]

i... i dont even... know how to... fed?

[neat horizon]

and the dragon will probably sit on a giant pile of lootable gold

[atomic mountain]

Or not. It’s all up to them. They won’t restrict player choice

[lone crescent]

Or maybe every team gets a room to loot that closes behind them

And can be opened only from inside so they can't get killed by "allies"

[neat horizon]

still I'd love to see a boss much stronger than other bosses and that requires more teams to effectively kill

[atomic mountain]

They aren’t going to separate people
Stop lol it’s not happening

You either work together and kill the dragon or you kill each other, or both.

No risk = no tension
No tension = no excitement
No excitement = no fun

[crimson flax]

if we're talking bossing I just hope they avoid destiny ahh raid boss design which is effectively a roblox obby and three lane cod map where you kill adds for 30 minutes

[neat horizon]

no fun = no money, hype and attention

[crimson flax]

also good god everyday im wondering how braukul hasnt been banned yet

[atomic mountain]

Being purposefully useless and annoying aren’t against any laws or rules
Unfortunately

[cursive kayak]

I wonder how they are going to do the dragon boss. it would probably be a separate queue on a separate map that you need a certain item to access than you have to hope the other teams don't die on the way to the boss

[mental lance]

They should make the dragon chase you through the dungeon

And then if it eats you, you’ll have to use your escape dungeon spell as a wizard to escape its belly

[silver obsidian]

My god a teleport spell for wizards might actually balance them

[mental lance]

They’re op right now

[proud tinsel]

In DnD wizards do have a spell for everything. Wizards are the ones who are going to get watered down the most by new classes. Everything good will be saved for Sorc and Necro and whatever else they put in. Wizards have a lot to be concerned about.

[sudden glacier]

I dont agree with the fart suggestion, zombies are weak, the purpose of them is to be annoying , that is his only strength, a lot of suggestions just want to make the game super easier

[proud tinsel]

It feels like the zombie fart does like no damage. I have not watched it tick down but getting hit by it vs getting hit by the zombie is an easy choice

[atomic mountain]

It’s annoying sure, but so is life
People need to grow tf up and adjust

“Make game ez”
“Make that class I don’t like playing against dogshit but buff my favorite one”

[sudden glacier]

the most annoying suggestions are the ones that say that they should make a PVE mode hahaha

[mental lance]

Annoying != hard

[atomic mountain]

Game is fun, play game, make friends, kill enemies

While I think some of the people who want a PvE mode or just softies, some of them just want something to help noobies get their Sea-Legs under them before they set sail for the heart of the Hurricane

[white cliff]

I find the most annoying suggestions are warp the game to be like “insert game here” usually dead.

[sudden glacier]

part of the fun of the game is being a noob and trying to figure out how to deal with mobs and players when you are new, I like that there is no tutorial, most people want to skip that

[gray vessel]

This game should be like og robocraft. Pre-release before they ruined their own game.

[white cliff]

Pull things from Mordhau, you know that game with 1k concurrent players!

[mental lance]

Add nukes

[silver obsidian]

this game should be like pre-eoc runescape please add woodcutting

[sudden glacier]

we are probably at the most fun stage of the game, I always liked more the games at the start

[white cliff]

Nah, I like things when they’re completed and fleshed out so I can dump hours into them. I also like when the comp scenes of games are developed; that’s nice too.

Though being in on the ground floor is cool.

[sudden glacier]

depends on the game, sometimes they make it to linear when you have to do the meta to success and right now there is a lot of strategies and its fun, I hope this game doesnt die soon

[mental lance]

As soon as people learn games they aren’t fun anymore

[sudden glacier]

yeah but I think that this game has a lot of potential cause of different mobs, new bosses, maps, classes, it has a lot to offer in the future also the quests seems fun

[white cliff]

@mental lance Dang you must not be playing any games then lol

Though considering you’re the guy rolling noobs with 10k worth of gear that checks out. Wouldn’t want any competition.

[mental lance]

I’m just playing the game like it’s intended

Are top teams that roll groups easily with no competition any different than me?

[white cliff]

Yes because they’re in high roller.

Where you exclusively solo? You weren’t playing with anyone else in trios and then going into solo with gear?

[mental lance]

So 3v3 is okay but not 1v1

I only played caves. 70 hours last pt

[sudden glacier]

then its fine in my opinion, but you are missing a lot of fun

Nothing like going into highroller and being scared all the time trying to survive and getting high rewards

[neat horizon]

why?

[sudden glacier]

I played mostly solo highroller

[mental lance]

I liked it

[neat horizon]

does it have good loot? I never find anything in good in there. It's like dungeon but harder

[mental lance]

Best you can find is epics but you make enough gold to just buy good gear

[white cliff]

A lot of epics.

[sudden glacier]

yeah you are basically just getting a lot of money to buy stuff

[mental lance]

The last half of the pt I probably didnt loot any chests and only went for kills

[neat horizon]

i mean yea farming trolls is kinda ridiculous

[white cliff]

The issue is when you gear in a strong trios group and come and face tank noobs with “10k with of gear” which is what I assume you where doing.

[neat horizon]

devs cant catch a break cause a new tactic to kill the troll gets made

[sudden glacier]

yeah that isnt fun, just abusing noobs

[mental lance]

Abusing noobs is pretty much what i did for most the pt

[white cliff]

I think only playing solos warps perspective on balance too, because they’re two so seats modes.

[sudden glacier]

but at least you were 1v1, imagine 30k gear

[white cliff]

Hence why I said gross, worst kind of player. And why you don’t like games when they have competition.

[mental lance]

I died eventually and the guy got a good payout 🤷‍♂️

[mental lance]

I’m just a rogue player

[white cliff]

I mean, no comment. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[neat horizon]

that depends. its nice to have a challenge but its not fun to be obliterated by a sweat

[white cliff]

Breathes hypocrisy, there’s always somebody better.

[proud tinsel]

I played rogue too that's no excuse

[mental lance]

I play to the class fantasy and rat 1 shot players out of nowhere

[shrewd wasp]

Please don't offer suggestions with such a terrible mindset

[mental lance]

Most of my suggestions are green

[turbid ermine]

Because they are reasonableish, nothing to do with a bad mindset

[mystic mist]

70 hours of goblin caves on rogue holy shit

that sounds so damn boring omg

[turbid ermine]

Some people spend quite a chunk of their time on the market only trading. To each their own.

[mental lance]

I just don’t like one sided fights that’s why I played caves

[atomic mountain]

5 out of 21 isn’t what I would call most

[mystic mist]

theyre mostly suggestions about out of game stuff thankfully

[mental lance]

Howd you find them all

[mystic mist]

also goblin caves is also one sided that shits like bringing an ak47 to an orphanage

[white cliff]

Do you not understand the hypocrisy on rolling noobs but not wanting the same experience dealt back on you? I feel like we’re missing some self-awareness.

[mental lance]

To each their own?

[turbid ermine]

Mordhau syndrome is quite a dangerous thing (had a better name made by the smarter folk in street fighter, I forgor)

[mental lance]

1v1 is more fair than 1v3

[turbid ermine]

Caves rarely were 1v1 specially towards the end of the playtest, lots of third parties

[mystic mist]

not if the enemy is mentally disabled

[atomic mountain]

You just set filter for #d-and-d-suggestions and type the name of the person.
Most of mine should be green, but even when it’s 90 ups and 5 downs the color doesn’t always change

[white cliff]

Nobody is forcing you to 1v3, make some friends lol.

I truly hope in my heart of hearts that solos is deleted.

[mental lance]

Yeah a lot of my suggestions on that filter are positive but don’t appear that way in the search

[turbid ermine]

heh solo is fine aslong as you atleast play some group so you don't get a must buff cleric mindset or other warped nonsense

[white cliff]

I think solos is worse because you can play in a group, comeback with your loot and roll noobs using your trios gear sets.

[mental lance]

You can do the same with the gear and gold you get from solos

[proud tinsel]

Its the exact same mentality cheaters have.

[turbid ermine]

The few shouldn't result on the many to be punished.

[mental lance]

I’m not a cheater though

[mystic mist]

this guy cant be real bro

[turbid ermine]

Doesn't mean I won't hate on anyone that just loves noob stomping, but solos aren't only doing that

[mental lance]

Pros noob stomp every other player in the game. Cheaters bro

[mystic mist]

this guys a nexon agent sent to melt our brains

[proud tinsel]

Never said that you were. Just that you share the same mentality.

[tight gale]

how hard is it too kill a boss?

[grizzled halo]

Idk if rolling noobs is like cheating. But camping in an fps shooter is the same mentality

[lone crescent]

Btw I don't think there's anything wrong going in solo with good gear.
I hope they will make solo high roller and more solo maps in the future

[turbid ermine]

Depends on class, team comp and if ur gonna cheese

[tight gale]

how do you cheese?

[grizzled halo]

Going solo with good gear is just low bro. Everyone in there is grey geared noobs where 50% die to random mobs.

[turbid ermine]

Pavise most likely, except for lich/ghost king

[tight gale]

do the leaderboard people cheese? What is best team comp? How hard is it with best team comp?

[lone crescent]

It's their problem if they have trash gear, it's not a rule.
Besides it's like that in playtest, in the future I think geared player will play solo too

[grizzled halo]

Depends on class. Id say as a fighter or barbarian who tend to have less skillcap i would rely on more gear like you do. But as wizard i just dominate the Noob Goblin cave with white books. Doesn't take more and there is no need to risk real gear if you happen to get rogued.

[lone crescent]

I'm not saying that stomping noobs is fun, I'm just saying that i like playing solo and i think will play this game 1v1 or 1vX only

[grizzled halo]

Solo is boring. Get some friends

[lone crescent]

I'm just used to play games alone

[grizzled halo]

Then you get a sick kill, or something funny happens. Who do you share it with?

[lone crescent]

Well people i know doesn't play games

[grizzled halo]

The LFG community was huge. I would offer you to join me but frankly we have about 4 people sitting idle in the discord when people play already. And dont ask me why they dont form a team of their own...

[lusty wren]

As a solo do you have a choice to not "roll noobs?"

And when did the onus get placed on the player to not roll noobs? 😄 Seems to me if the devs want to coddle the noobs (which is a bad idea imo) then that is on them. Not the player

[lone crescent]

I tried on other games to find people to play on discord, went bad

[proud tinsel]

The onus is on the player to not be a prick, The devs cant help with that

[lone crescent]

I'm not really a social player

[lusty wren]

How is it a prick to play the solo dungeon and kill everyone you see? Isnt that just playing the game?

How can you control, or hell even KNOW if someone is a noob?

[proud tinsel]

Not if you are rocking 10k plus in gear

[lusty wren]

So if you are rocking 10k in gear you should be barred from the solo dungeon? This is silly 😄

[proud tinsel]

I don't know how you would know if someone is half naked or not. You should not be barred. You should just not be punking newbs. I went in there with that much gear but I was dropping stuff for people not killing them. You chose to be a prick or not. Take some responsibility for your life

[mental lance]

Either the goblins would get the noobs or I would.

[lusty wren]

Again, how do you know if someone is new? I went on a bunch of zero to hero runs how would you differentiate me from anyone else? To act like its the players job to be nice to the noobs is just super entitled 😄

[proud tinsel]

I'm not saying you have to be nice to them. I'm saying you can chose to be. You chose to be a prick. Thats fine. But dont act like your not.

[lusty wren]

But you cant. How can you choose to be nice to noobs if you cannot identify them?

[proud tinsel]

if you cant tell if its a newb then you suck at the game

[lusty wren]

So you can tell if I am a noob based on what?

[mental lance]

Part of the excitement is dying. I’m depriving players of the full game experience if i let them live

[grizzled halo]

I usually just talked to the noobs. I knew if i killed them they only had like 3 armbands. If they came at me i would clap them. Atleast they learned the lesson about attack the naked players. They are naked for a reason.

[proud tinsel]

Your play, your gear, what you do when you see an obviously geared player

[lusty wren]

Again how do you identify a noob?

[proud tinsel]

I should not even accept the premise of the questions its so absurd its laughable.

[lusty wren]

Your play? You have to engage with them first then...your gear? I did hundreds of zero to hero runs. Gear does not = experience. You guys are silly

[grizzled halo]

How they move, their gear. etc. Its easy to spot. Especially when they are unaware of your precense. A good player will notice you opening the door etc.

[mental lance]

I turned off voip so i didnt have to hear people try to convince me of anything

[proud tinsel]

No you don't you just have to watch them. Who cares if they have 100 hours if they have no gear and you have tons. If you attack them with out provocation you're a prick. If they attack you teach em a lesson

[lusty wren]

SO before you engage with anyone, you sit there and watch them for how long to determine if they are a noob or not? 😄

[grizzled halo]

Why? thats easily the best moments in the game...

[lusty wren]

If this is your definition of prick 90% of this game is pricks. And You know what im glad for it 😄

[proud tinsel]

In the solo caves sure. Where i don't need to worry about a team smashing me.

[grizzled halo]

Depends how far away they are when i encounter them. If i am sneaking up on someone i have lots of time to evaluate him.

[lusty wren]

🤣

[proud tinsel]

Plenty of em sure. Does not mean I have to be and it does not make your behavior any better. Way to justify being a prick by saying other people are pricks too. GL bud

[lusty wren]

Its not being a prick, its a silly definition you have created out of thin air. For people who have no way to positively identify noobs. 😄

If you engage a noob your a prick. Is the dumbest thing ive seen in this channel.

[grizzled halo]

You're not a prick for killing noobs. But rushing down noobs with epics is pretty sad. And its super easy to spot a noob...

[mental lance]

Why is it sad

[lusty wren]

They do not understand PVP apparently 😄 They want to be catered to

[grizzled halo]

Because why do you want to kill him? its not a satisfying kill. Neither is it gonna net you any loot. They always have nothing on them, and are like 20% hp already.

[lusty wren]

Lots of assumptions from such a white knight 😄

[mental lance]

I like to pvp what can i say 🤷‍♂️

[grizzled halo]

Please google that term. And its not assumptions. Its experience. Ive killed lots and lots of noobs. Their inventory is always full of grey armor and grey pots and pans.

[lusty wren]

Why are you such a prick if they are so easily identifiable? 😄

[grizzled halo]

I did say i would kill them if they came at me or if i run into them in a tight space, did i not?

[lusty wren]

Not very classy my man killing loads of noobs

[turbid ermine]

If ur going with ur hr gear to casual, ur the definition of a noob stomper

[mental lance]

You cant tell if someone is geared in this game. Whites look the same as uniques

[lusty wren]

Sounded like the topic was a SOLO player who plays SOLO dungeon exclusively. How are they supposed to play the game then? Just not use the gear they acquire?

[turbid ermine]

Play solo hr. Or don't grab ur HR gear for solo.

[grizzled halo]

Solo is only for getting gear for trio and HR

[lusty wren]

Again EXCLUSIVELY solo dungeon. There is no HR solo dungeon or was none

[turbid ermine]

Then option B, don't grab ur HR gear for it.

[mental lance]

I used it to exponentially make my solo gear better

[lusty wren]

Are you capable of reading? LOL they have no HR gear if they only play a dungeon that has no HR 😄

[lusty wren]

Just gets sillier and sillier

[turbid ermine]

Then the whole thing we presented ages ago doesn't apply to them.

[lusty wren]

They werent defining it as HR gear they were defining it based on gold value 😉

"10k worth of gear"

[turbid ermine]

What a derailed topic, the topic started 3 hours ago when red boi above when he made the comment on "As soon as people learn games they aren’t fun anymore"

[mental lance]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1068515184689283123/1082324955586371614/image0.jpg this is the gear i rolled solos over with

[lusty wren]

Oh so you re entered the conversation and assumed it was the same one got it 😄

[turbid ermine]

Yes because it's pretty close 🐴

[lusty wren]

🤣

[turbid ermine]

Why is there no donkey emoji, smh discord

[neat horizon]

#d-and-d-suggestions message look at Marauders

[lusty wren]

The horse emoji did its job in conveying you have no argument 😉

[lusty wren]

Just curious, how does mauraders relate to this suggestion?

[turbid ermine]

Coz it's dead, prob idk it's a completely different type of game

[lusty wren]

Ya, but they do not have a closing circle like the suggestion is talking about

Just seems odd

Marauders has loads of faults, its way of extraction and pace pushing is not one of the reasons its a failure so ya just seems odd

[sinful pendant]

Makes the next playtest 2 weeks long

[verbal marsh]

Bad idea to come into goblin caves geared.

[ripe haven]

door mimics are a good idea.

[proud tinsel]

That would just push back early access a week or so

[ripe haven]

my babys due april 20th, so itd have to start a week sooner if they want to do a week longer.

[proud tinsel]

Why wait until its due, get that monster cut out now

[mental lance]

Adoption

[sinful pendant]

That's okay I'm selfish I want it now and longer

[proud tinsel]

pift cat people😆

[faint dirge]

He wants to be god with +1 all?
#d-and-d-suggestions message

[mental lance]

He spoke when everyone else was too afraid to

[gloomy cradle]

Ope! Someone mentioned Tarkov in their suggestion. Time to auto-downvote

[faint dirge]

Most stats are already increased

[mental lance]

Not the direct % stats

They are indirectly increased

[faint dirge]

Surely that would be balanced

[mental lance]

If everyone gets it it’s balanced

[gray vessel]

seems unnecessary to double down on the %'s when the flat stats already affect the %'s. I.e. you would get 2x or even 3x in some cases depending on how it was balanced. I downvoted because it seems like very unnecessary complication to make it harder for the devs to balance. All for little benefit to the actual game.

[mental lance]

Let’s just make it a really rare roll called +all stats

[faint dirge]

Find +all on you gear Simulator

[faint dirge]

Thats also not how balancing works
Thats called killing games

[proud tinsel]

How many games have you developed? What are the metrics for being a dead game?

[white cliff]

You don’t need to make games to be able to identify a dead one, that’s an argument of authority.

By that same metric unless you’re the authority on a subject you can’t argue or have an informed opinion on a topic, which is ridiculous.

[mental lance]

Me personally, if I owned DaD, I’d add gear lootboxes and a battle pass

[proud tinsel]

I have never claimed to be? I was just looking for reference on how they came to their claim. I am not a game dev. I can't program. I have no clue what im talking about when it comes to game development.

I'm always more than willing to admit my ignorance. To do otherwise is absurd.

[granite plinth]

The company gotta make money somehow to keep updating so it depends on your vision

[dark rune]

Trash take

[mental lance]

Explain how

[dusky field]

Do not allow people to buy gear with actual money because it takes away from the game. I agree they need some way to monetize the game beyond the entry fee (BUT THEY SHOULD DEFINITELY CHARGE AN ENTRY FEE). But it shouldn't be randomized. Definitely not randomized. Skins would be a way. Battlepass I guess would be another... But no gear, and no randomized.

[mental lance]

How about gacha

[mossy ruin]

lootboxes is basically a gacha, its just a different representation of the same concept

[warm spoke]

A battlepass would be such a cool idea, also loot boxes would be good if the gear was capped at blue/green or lowered drop rate compared to dungeon rates

[mental lance]

Pay $10 for rarity upgrades

[pseudo eagle]

make the game 40

rip make the game 40$ and everything else free included in that 40$ or whatever price they set.

[proud tinsel]

I think it will be 40. I think they should go 50 to have more of a cushion. I'm a cash on hand person though.

[mossy ruin]

idk, like literally this is such a 2 way issue. People who might be willing to spend money on a game would see this as a waste of money because the gear is volatile, and people who don't think for more than 20 seconds see this as an issue that ruins the game cause P2W. In reality its just bad for both the benefactor of the system and the opposer to that benefactor, unless they kill them. But then the benefacting party is the person who didn't pay for it. Also it creates a surplus of gear rarity for bots to sell gear if the items are tradeable. Its just a non-starter idea.

Maybe a better take would be a package upgrade like what tarkov does with EoD versus standard edition. I would even argue that in tarkov you COULD run out of loot completely and you are better off wiping your account, in DaD while making a new character would be a similar action, fists are 'useable' if they went the route of your character not having a 'grey grey' kit.

[graceful frost]

You have no clue how to make a good game Lmao. Yeah we should make it p2w obviously. Your brainwashed by triple a games. There are ways to make money off your game without killing it and making it no fun lmao

There is a reason your not a game dev

[mossy ruin]

Ima be honest, its just like I said, its not even benefiting the abuser of the system, the 10$ is just wasted in the idea. But no need to be hostile.

[graceful frost]

It is Lmao it does benefit them. I mean they are just getting better loot

[pseudo eagle]

i just wanna play the game inbetwen test but i think p2w is a bad idea a game should have a set price and everything included with that or a free game with buyable apperal

[mossy ruin]

I mean there are edge cases, but your average 10$ rarity upgrader has to have a full stash of items worth upgrading firstly, secondly the player is probably bad to the point they just lose the gear cause dying is very easy.
I am being semantical and saying that if there is a P2W feature, this just isn't a good one for the people who WOULD want to spend money on a game.

[graceful frost]

Yeah the game should cost money and if they want more out of it you add cosmetics that give no ingame advantage.

[graceful frost]

I mean I don’t see the point of discussing if it would do anything. Any sort of p2w feature is the dumbest bs ever. Ironmace isn’t doing that, will never consider doing that and I think there is no point to discussing it. P2w is stupid, useless, and skill-less

[pseudo eagle]

100% agree

[mossy ruin]

I agree pretty heavily, I just think instead of looking at it like 'Pay 2 Win', its like 'Pay 2 Pinata' thats all im going on about, its moot to continue I agree.

[graceful frost]

I do hope they keep the cosmetic system similar to what it is so you have a chance of getting one without paying. But also games do need to make money, but any sort of like 2 weeks or so of playtime and you can get a cosmetic or pay like 10 dollars would be an amazing idea. However again games want to make money

[mossy ruin]

I think honestly... honestly honestly truly

They should actually fund a new project or 2 and link this in and create a world surrounding their game and these other 'games' can totally have features that people suggest to fund the original. But sounds difficult, might as well make a loot extractor and DIP with the money

[proud tinsel]

I'm fine with cosmetic stuff being paid only or exclusive. I think it would be nice for early access people to have an exclusive one. Not that I care about such things. I wanna know how they are gonna get more money out of me. They have to do something like paid content xpacs or something to get my money.

[graceful frost]

Cosmetics will get them more than enough money guaranteed. Look at valorant, apex, overwatch2 and stuff like this

[proud tinsel]

I don't doubt that, I just don't want everyone else carrying my weight just because I happen to not care about cosmetics.

[graceful frost]

I mean payed content is just a bad idea more or less. Strange take that you don’t want other people to pay more money than you. I mean maybe ig you want to support the game

[warm spoke]

you wouldn't want doungeon themed loot? or character skin themed loot?

[proud tinsel]

You think so? like an xpac with 2 new maps and a new class for 20$? Yeah I wanna support the game and I want payment to be fair to everyone.

[mossy ruin]

I think its a bad idea to do cosmetics OVER your base gear because clarity of rarity is important. But underneath like a dwarf or a skeleton or an elf, thats 👍

[mental lance]

imagine spending $100 on gear and dying immediately to a f2p

[proud tinsel]

True thats definitely a discussion I'm sure the devs will have

[mossy ruin]

exxactly, omegalul

[warm spoke]

You should be able to buy a special type of candy or something that can only be used at a premium shop that sells purple or higher tier gear.
This would solve the gold/item RWT issue

[rancid pebble]

Yea but that still would let people pay to get gear that normal people couldnt get

[atomic mountain]

That’s just an alt someone made to troll on Discord

[rancid pebble]

o, how did they join discord after joining this server? wait nvm diff years*

[graceful frost]

but that doesnt really work in a multiplayer game? Do the people who bought it not get to play with people who didn't? I mean I don't wanna be going up against 2 new clases I cant even play and have no clue what they do. Also ig the maps would be only for the people who bought it meaning longer queue times and crap? It doesnt make sense for a br type game.

[proud tinsel]

Yeah I'm not sure how they would make it work tbh

Lots of MMO's do it but with this game play idk. I also don't like the idea of pay walling classes.

[white cliff]

MMO’s also have millions of players so expansions aren’t a huge issue when it comes to dividing the playerbase, plus monthly subscriptions take care of that. It’s very different when your game relies on pvp to function; it’s an extract looter after all.

[proud tinsel]

Dead by Daylight does something similar and thats what they were looking at for models to monetize

[crimson flax]

side thing--but i hope whoever keeps on suggesting to remove the swarm gets into extra shitty lobbies from now on

[ripe haven]

Ye my wife would agree lol

[ripe haven]

Wat about my suggestion that makes swarm better

[dense horizon]

Any update on the next play test ?

[ripe haven]

#the-tavern

[verbal marsh]

Think it would be cool if there was a magic overdose system if they intend to add scrolls and additional potion types.

[ripe haven]

Like a buff?

[verbal marsh]

Would be knowledge be mana, and your objective is not to overfill. Potions would have lingering effects in comparison to spells on your knowledge where as a spell would drain the mana used for the duration of the spell. So a player with higher knowledge can buffball, but using the potions in addition to it would have lingering cost so there'd be a limit to buffballing with potions.

yeah too complicated right now, i'll think of something simpler eventually.

[ripe haven]

So like a chemist

[verbal marsh]

Would be kinda cool tho, if someone comes around the corner brimming with too much buffball, you just buff them and give them sickness and they kheel over. Would be a funny way to play wizard.

[ripe haven]

Prof Snape

[verbal marsh]

I like the idea that there can be too much of a good thing.

[verbal marsh]

So if str were like knowledge for 'overdose' you'd have 75 pool, each tier would of spell would cost x, and potions would cost x, so if someone tries to buffball with potions and buffs they'd be limited if they've low knowledge, as well as constantly potion chugging overtime. Probably just have a visual for when they're over 80% capacity, then you can cast curses to like slow and snare at x2 effect to overdose them further putting them in drunk mode.

[ripe haven]

@strange fiber what color is skeleton blood

[strange fiber]

Atm it’s red

Changing the undead color to green would fit better since the blood is needed to show a players hit connected

[smoky yoke]

to me green blood in games it's always insects related
in fact the mosquito's blood is green iirc

i like skeletons having red blood

[strange fiber]

But dead things don’t have blood 😭

[smoky yoke]

yea true
but it could be unique to dark and darker

[strange fiber]

My bones they BLEED

[smoky yoke]

there is still some blood in those bones i guess

[strange fiber]

Some crazy bones but I think each mob type having their own blood would be aesthetic

[topaz owl]

Probably spinal fluid.

[atomic mountain]

Spy-Anal?

[strange fiber]

They do bone you alright I’m going to bed i hope the skeletons in all of you become sentient

[proud tinsel]

Blood is made in the bones. They bleed trust me. So it would just depend on how fresh the skeletons are. If realism is your thing just realize that skeletons can't walk and swing swords or cast fire ball. Suspending your disbelief a bit further should not be a problem.

[smoky yoke]

yes true, fantasy after all
i like skeletons having red blood

and visually it is always nice to have some visual feedback

[verbal marsh]

fish blood is green at a depth due to the light being bent at lower depths

[smoky yoke]

there is some lore about this

[neat horizon]

because Marauders is also an extraction shooter with a timer

I like the BR zone they have going on in the game

it makes it more intense

[waxen bone]

The "spell loadout" addition I suggested would hopefully allow for more smooth integration to your party of other players, say your friends just got on the game, but you're running something that's not as good as with the team, or you just don't want to use it, this would mean that you can quickly switch your spells and not sit there and have to individually swap them every time while you're friends or generally teammates wait for you to pick your perfect spells

It would also allow you to experiment with spells on the wizard or cleric with your current build, but after a game goes well or fails, you can choose to quickly reselect your old build if you find it doesn't work out well

[smoky yoke]

spell loadout is nice
also a perk and skill loadout could be cool

[craggy glade]

I downvoted because of your pfp

[waxen bone]

loser

[turbid ermine]

loser

@craggy glade while the bait is a classic, we have nightmare versions of mobs in a marble black color. Nightmare skeletons can also spawn with a reflector shield that causes the funny. Should play the game before u know, trying to bait

[pale ruin]

Also nightmare sword only skellies can do a sudden 2 attack combo

[craggy glade]

nightmare is only black eyes IDIOT

[turbid ermine]

No need to project your issues to me brother.

[eager canopy]

ok man that was a joke becuase evey body was downvoing the seugesting to add black people so like what the sus

[grim fiber]

I mean if you play cleric as a group you should prioritize double spell memory, so you don't need to swap spells, just bring everything
Just make your "Main" spell memory with the same kit as solo cleric and add other spells to the second one, So you don't need to swap things, just the skill itself

[waxen bone]

That also decreases player customizability, that mindset, that everyone should just use meta every single game. That works great if you want to take double spell memory but it doesn't work as well. If you want to take say judgment to play battle cleric with your team if you feel they might be a little under leveled and unable to handle close-up fights

[grim fiber]

I mean, i am not sayng your suggestion is bad, is just uncessary, and i PERSONALLY think brining second spell memory is better than "only 1 spell" (like judgment) and i think bind is really better as a CC

[tight gale]

did your thing get deleted?

or was that someone else or your alt?

[white cliff]

#d-and-d-suggestions message

Can a <@&988703997378584596> take a look at this suggestion please to deem of its fit for removal?

[fringe void]

Handled, thanks

[tight gale]

:(

[atomic mountain]

J doesn’t stand for Joke-Enjoyer that’s for sure

[white cliff]

Racism isn’t funny…

[atomic mountain]

I didn’t even see the suggestion lol
I’m just…Joshing with ya 😅

My pfp is a the joker. If you think those emojis are insults, they are the opposite josh

[pallid sleet]

Clown world

[stoic thorn]

So they need to find a way to make money passively to keep servers up?

[atomic mountain]

I think they meant into the distant future. 🤷‍♂️ EA and full release sales should be enough for a few years as far as anyone can predict

[cold condor]

I doubt that game sales alone will make enough to sustain them for more than a year or two. Besides, they might want to scale the team up if it's successful.

[smoky yoke]

yea pretty sure they said game sales alone won't be enough

which is normal and fair

we will see in future the monetization

[cerulean sleet]

I love the guy that made the battle pass and lootbox suggestion

[muted crag]

I dispise them, this is not the place to be a gremlin, this is the future of the game. That goes for any suggestion that throws the game to the bottom of the sea like a stone to be erroded of any uniqe features to conform to the vocal minority's comforts! By the divine's blood, some of these people make me want to pin them against the wall by their shirt collar and ask 'what the hell do you think youre doing?' Just to see how many only laugh like a deranged clown.

[atomic mountain]

I think my Mukbang suggestion was tasteful.

[muted crag]

No.

[mental lance]

New copypasta just dropped

[muted crag]

Good, spread my decree.

[pallid sleet]

By the nine

[atomic mountain]

Comedy has no place here on Mount Olympus!

[warm spoke]

@cerulean sleet I also made that suggestion but I also included putting advertisements only in the trading & gathering hall.

[cerulean sleet]

those are wildly different suggestions lol

[grave mason]

Lmao what was the suggestion

[amber solstice]

If their goal is a 10+ year lifespan, which I believe they stated at some point, they will need additional income past initial purchase to continue working on the game. That's why fixed price games have DLC/expansions or they just move on to the next game.

[warm spoke]

The in-game duration is already 15 minutes for the 1st dungeon, how long do you want one dungeon experience to go for, assuming they add the 3rd dungeon that's up to 45 minutes

[amber solstice]

Just go for the hardcore neural link option. You enter the ruins forever. Until you die or go deeper. Death is permanent.

[deep steeple]

Separate servers for hardcore mode players where if you die you lose stash and all levels ezpz

[verbal marsh]

I would like a survival mode

I don't think a separate server is needed either

[mental lance]

Who downvoted this #d-and-d-suggestions message

[stoic thorn]

A lot of people

[eager creek]

well you put two ideas together for starters

Nobody likes lootboxes. I like battle passes.

[regal lotus]

That slow time suggestion tho lol

[stoic thorn]

How can they passively make money hmmmm

Here’s a crazy idea lmao
What if they hosted tournaments at different intervals between wipes but you have to pay to get in.
If you win them you get a cut of other’s entry fees and cosmetics specific to those tournaments. Idk like fortnight cash cup.

[eager creek]

or just make skins lol.. skins are the best way to make money while not ruining gameplay

[cold condor]

Tournaments usually cost more in prizes and organizational expenses than you can recoup via entry ticket sales.

[white cliff]

I too like grinding for content I’ve already paid for.

[mental lance]

$1 entry cost per match

[white cliff]

Me, thanks for pointing this out.

[mental lance]

L take

[white cliff]

I don’t negotiate with trolls, sorry.

[eager creek]

if most people have L takes, than that means we have the W take 🤔

[white cliff]

They already exist through the community funny enough.

[mental lance]

I’m just trying to make this game better because i love it

[white cliff]

Yeah adding pay to win loot boxes with gear, which retroactively ruins the game destroying it and dwindling the playerbase makes it’s better; true.

[stoic thorn]

I just wanna steal 5 dollars from everyone by smashing their heads in game and give Ironmace the other half of it 😔

[white cliff]

I think they’re are a lot of people who’d be doing the smashing instead.

[smoky yoke]

I love the developers' philosophy
where it says no p2w or battle passes stuff

[mental lance]

Theres so many trash rolls that 99% of lootbox items will be garbage

[eager creek]

Sadge, i like battle passes 😦

[white cliff]

It would be cool just to remove suggestions that are actively against this philosophy.

[eager creek]

so you want to get scammed lol?

[white cliff]

I mean you’ve been convinced by corporations that a battlepass is the best monetization option.

[mental lance]

No lol I’ll never pay for a lootbox. Goes against my morals

[eager creek]

That and skins, what a better monetization option?

[white cliff]

It’s a system that forces players to interact with a game for content they’ve already paid for. It’s not great for the consumer but things like fortnite convinced you it is.

[stoic thorn]

I wouldn’t mind an in game currency lootbox like ow through the gob merch
Gives 3 random items but cost like 375 gold to buy it

[white cliff]

No.

[eager creek]

I dont play fortnite, but then just dont buy the pass?

[stoic thorn]

But we can already rng through gob merch, why not?😩

[white cliff]

You don’t play fortnite but mentioned a battlepass. You do realize the game popularized the monetization format and makes millions quarterly?

You don’t have to play a game to know about how it’s monetized and has had its systems adapted in other games.

[eager creek]

Why is playing a game for loot a bad thing? If its a good deal I dont see the issue with it. Marvel snap has a 10 dollar battle pass and you get a ton of content for it.

[white cliff]

Why am I forced to play for content I’ve already paid for?

[stoic thorn]

Tbh, I don’t want the game to become over saturated with skins.

[mental lance]

They should add an option to pay $100 to never lose your items

Like per item is $100

[white cliff]

It’s been a while since I’ve blocked a troll. Oh well, fun while it lasted.

[mental lance]

Who’s he talking about

[eager creek]

as long as the battle pass is just skins and cosmetics im cool with it. I have an issue with locking gear behind paywalls in general.

[white cliff]

That doesn’t answer my question, as a consumer why am I forced to play for content I’ve already paid for?

[stoic thorn]

As does everyone but i don’t think they’re going to step towards the p2w route

[eager creek]

Youre being rewarded for it, not forced. nobody told you, you have to buy it.

[stoic thorn]

Because you didn’t already pay for it, it’s new content they made then added in

[eager creek]

forced is locking an item with stats behind a paywall, thats bad.

[white cliff]

I can pay for content and receive it without having to go through extra steps.

[eager creek]

they already have the blue essence, Id assume you can purchase that for skins as well.

[white cliff]

I did pay for a battlepass, and now I’m being forced to grind content which I’ve already purchased. I’m locked into playing a game if I want what I paid for.

[stoic thorn]

It’s an annoying system i can agree

[white cliff]

And it shows by their comment that people desire this system because it’s been made the most common.

[eager creek]

they can do both, let you buy the skin and let you grind it in a battlepass. With it being much cheaper if you grind - thats a good compromise for people without funds

[stoic thorn]

I don’t want them overly skinning weps and gear because then we’d either have to turn skins off in a setting if they ever give the option or remember what skin is associated with what

[eager creek]

And too many skins breaks immersion too.

[stoic thorn]

I would pay to go into a “high-high-roller” with a better leaderboard system and slightly better drop rate than hr

Idk

[neat horizon]

yea lets give wizard even more op spells #d-and-d-suggestions message

[stoic thorn]

Don’t read my suggestion above that 😂

[atomic mountain]

A battlepass is just a big, time-sensitive loot box. Set it on fire and send it back to the fourth circle of Hell

[neat horizon]

it wouldn't really work

people getting good items for simply playing and not going into high roller or anything

[lone crescent]

Ah yes now wizards wants time manipulation too

[eager creek]

Jk they will do that anyways

[lone crescent]

Soms form of skins could be pendants to attach on weapons but i don't thin I'll buy them

Skins like races can't be monetized cause they change your stats and that's a cool feature

If you do too much armor skin then it will be harder to recognized the enemy class

[atomic mountain]

It’s near impossible to find creative ways to monetize because we’ve gotten used to being prey to the predation of studios that became corporations who decided that video games needed to be as low-effort and as highly-profitable as mobile games

We got used to prices getting lower and lower and quality of experience going down for the sake of quantity mass appeal

There are too few willing to do what could be done to fix the problem:
Pay more upfront

[lone crescent]

I guess they will have paid emotes, maybe voice lines and something like that.
All things that have 0 impact on gameplay

[eager creek]

paying more upfront alienates the player base. def the worst decision for longevity

[atomic mountain]

Everyone wants to pay less on release because they’ve lost faith in the industry. I get it. But…
“I won’t pay a penny more than $30 now, if it even seems worth that on release, and I might pay more later if it keeps my interest”

Is the exact mindset that communicates our lack of trust and results in good studios having to adopt MTX methods to appeal to an audience who can’t wrap their mind around a great game from a great studio being worth more than $30

[eager creek]

No, thats not the issue, the issue is most of the worlds playerbase is in third world countries and any initial price makes the game unplayable for them.

but having an initial price makes it harder to sell gold for cash, so thats good.

[atomic mountain]

Great games should warrant a great price. I don’t care to give credit to the notion that the average person is so cheap that a studio like Ironmace wouldn’t have enough people playing their game.
I don’t care if millions can’t afford it.
It’s entertainment, not bread and water.

[eager creek]

you care about the game but dont care about who has access to it? without players there is no game..

[atomic mountain]

You want more if the same crap games we’ve been getting for a decade?
Keep thinking and spending the same
The market will respond by preparing your next microwave meal game

[lone crescent]

In the last years the only game i brought full price was Elden Ring cause the most of the gaming industry sucks

[eager creek]

Getting real Joker vibes from yuh, we truly live in a society lol.

[lone crescent]

Dark and Dark could be another full price game for me

[atomic mountain]

People live in a society, sheep live in a flock

Get your money up and show Ironmace the love

[eager creek]

go tell that to the phillipines, china and all of africa

[lone crescent]

They will keep the price low (as much as possible) cause they want a huge head start

[atomic mountain]

Tell them i said thanks for all the gotcha mobile game bullshit that bled over into the western gaming industry

[lone crescent]

They need fast money to keep the development going, then they will implement monetization and keep developing

[faint dirge]

So keeping price low means what?
Like 10€ or what, because 30€ and 40€ is not that much of a difference

[eager creek]

skins baby, beautiful skins

[atomic mountain]

Great games should go for a great price, because they’re a great value.
I hope iron mace believes in their product and charge more because real gamers will be there to back them up

[lone crescent]

More players, more sales, more
£€$ and more support

[faint dirge]

So 2 cents ur thinking?

[lone crescent]

30-40€ i guess

[faint dirge]

Thats not low
Its the exact the middle

[atomic mountain]

The fuck it isn’t

[lone crescent]

That is compared to 70€ like AAA games

[eager creek]

lol

[atomic mountain]

Game prices have been kept artificially low for almost 20 years

[lone crescent]

Yeah let's make good games 100+ cause they are good

[eager creek]

are you a developer? @atomic mountain

[lone crescent]

Then you end up like Blizzard that the only thing they do is disrespecting their players

[eager creek]

there def a middle ground, blizzard makes their skins 30 bucks each. Id actually go buy the OPM skin line if their monetization wasnt as predatory

[atomic mountain]

The cost to produce games has increased tenfold since the early 2000s yet
Elden Ring was $60
Halo 2 was $50

[eager creek]

Elden ring also has a huge devoted player base behind it..

[atomic mountain]

So does this game thank you for making my point

[eager creek]

It does not lol! Its not even out.

[fervent briar]

You look foolish. The dev team is under 25 people lol

[atomic mountain]

I never said anything about the dev team size

[lone crescent]

Not only that, they let Overwatch die to develop the PvE while people where crying for new contents and now still no PvE.
They resurrect a dead game just to make as much money as they can before it dies completely.

Diablo Immortal P2W.

World of Warcraft remake as voice ating Dino Pictures level.

[fervent briar]

My bad I saw dev size not player base lol. Apologies

[eager creek]

His argument is to make DandD 60 dollars because the "community" wants that, but in reality some people arent going to risk that on a game purchase - and most third world countries cant afford that in general.

[atomic mountain]

This game hit 103 on steam charts as an Alpha. If that’s not huge, idk what is

[fervent briar]

Honestly dunno why people are arguing about it, they already said 30-40$

[eager creek]

and Multiversus, nick all star brawl had huge followings too, then became dead games in a month.

[fervent briar]

Let’s just hope for cheap steam tradable skins... facepunch has made a lot of money from rust.

[strange fiber]

29.99 sounds like the best price

[atomic mountain]

I’m not arguing about what the price should or should not be dollar wise
I’m advocating against a “they should charge less because people are broke” mindset
(More or less)

[white cliff]

Again, you don’t need to be a game dev, to have an opinion on game development. Especially if you’re the consumer purchasing the game.

[eager creek]

and Im not even arguing from my perspective either, id rather pay 60 bucks for a full game. But thats not good for the dev teams longevity, and i want to play this game for years.

[mental lance]

29.99 will sell more copies than 30

[lone crescent]

Anthem was huge too and died in a month

[atomic mountain]

Tell that to the people who said $50 was too ‘unhealthy’ of a price for Halo 2 back in 2004

[lone crescent]

The thing is that they plan on monetizing in the future so more players equals more money

[eager creek]

how much competition did halo 2 have?

[atomic mountain]

Not much because it was unique and groundbreaking. Just like Dark and Darker is

[lone crescent]

If the game dies fast they make the most out of it with low price, that's why this type of games are cheaper

[fervent briar]

How many items could you purchase in game?

[eager creek]

youre either trolling me, coping or just ignorant.

[atomic mountain]

I don’t recall Bungie ever going broke because they didn’t sell me skins for my guns

[white cliff]

What genre competition does DnD have even? Tarcov, Hunt showdown, the cycle?

[eager creek]

they had no competition. Everyone bought halo. There is so much competition nowadays, thats why games die so often. Putting a 60 price tag just alienates so many people.

[fervent briar]

Now we might be getting into something worthy of debate. Games were a lot different in 2004

[mental lance]

Onlyfans isnt broke and ive never bought a sub

[atomic mountain]

Now look at Halo. It’s shit because of the mobile gaming CEOs giving the market what it wants without caring about about the quality gamers want

[eager creek]

add couch coop to dark and darker o_o!

[atomic mountain]

Elden Ring didn’t in alienate anyone who wanted a quality game because of it’s price tag

[ripe haven]

I'm very sad my lan/offline idea is blue bordered. Pls permaban me.

[fervent briar]

Imo if you’re paying less than $100 for a game in 2023 you should already be expecting some form of in game monetization

[mossy ruin]

Then they released halo infinite

[atomic mountain]

Bungie had no hand in halo infinite. That’s 343 and Microsoft greed you have to thank

[ripe haven]

OMG ITS GREEN NOW PLS DONT PERMABAN ME ANYMORE

[mossy ruin]

shit was silly, ty i didnt know

[atomic mountain]

Bungie got tired of the pressure from Microsoft to keep churning out more Halo titles just for the sake of sales. Bungie thought they did the franchise (and gamers) justice and wanted to move onto a new project they could be more creative with

[amber solstice]

Ive always said tarkov could make billions by charging a dollar for a kill cam or game replay.

[atomic mountain]

The half that cared about money more than creativity splintered off and became 343. Microsoft bought them and put a saddle on their back

[mossy ruin]

So now they ride a dead horse?

[verbal marsh]

halo competed with playstation and pc sells for games. basically still absorbing 50% of the community.

[atomic mountain]

Into the wasteland that is ‘modern gaming’ yes

[eager creek]

well 30 bucks for the game looks like a good model, will keep away third world farming factories from selling gold online

[eager creek]

compared to nowadays where everyone competes with minecraft fortnite and a billion of other games to choose from

[verbal marsh]

still are dominate console titles like COD as well.

Really comes to targeted demography.

[eager creek]

yup, more competition for dark and darker, exactly.

[amber solstice]

It's hard to keep games going long term. If you keep doing the same things it gets boring. If you change too much you lose your audience or your appeal.

[atomic mountain]

Never played WoW huh? Game price doesn’t discourage RMT. You have to pay monthly just play the game and gold sellers have been there for decades

[verbal marsh]

not really, some company's are just trying to appeal to too wide an audience hence New World.

When you're breaking into AAA gaming it's like rolling into the major leagues lol.

[amber solstice]

New world had a demo worth of content and decided to call it a game.

[cursive kayak]

Bro they should just do what tarkov did with pricing and have 2 separate versions of the game that way they don't have to rely on skins. Right now weapons and armor look different depending on their rarity. If they add weapon skins it's going to get rid of that

[eager creek]

didnt say it would stop it but when you get banned weekly it hurts the business model.

[atomic mountain]

There’s a middle ground to be found for sure. But it’s not an easy one to find given the times.
I don’t envy the position Ironmace is in.

[verbal marsh]

from what I understand they detour away from the type of game I wanted when the nda lifted and said tester stated his opinion. -

[atomic mountain]

Yeah for sure but if it’s easy to make money in the game’s market system it’s a little more than a speedbump (and has an open market)
Which is another reason I think they should charge more for full release 💁‍♂️

[verbal marsh]

see if I can even find his youtube content nemore hrm

its burried; too lazy to find it. As the world turns.

[atomic mountain]

It’s hard to say exactly what number would be best because we don’t have a solid idea of what the game will look like come full release.
Based on what I’ve seen and heard so far I don’t think they’ll have the core of the game finished by Q3/Q4.
(Core meaning the majority of content)

[lone crescent]

It's the opposite, take From Software, people just want the same game with different enemies and different bosses.

Pokemon too it's always the same and people keep buying it.

Zelda always the same.

Super Mario always the same

They make game for their fans and don't even care appealing new players.
They give the player that already loves the game what they want

[mossy ruin]

True

[proud bay]

Business Model I'm hoping for:
40$ on release
10$ per season (you pay to get access for the whole next season) you can skip seasons and come back when they fresh wipe, more friendly than a monthly cost and I think would be enough to keep them going.

[atomic mountain]

Exactly. it’s not always about appealing to the widest audience, when appealing to the audience you want can work well

[mossy ruin]

Look at Dynasty Warriors, pretty big hit back in the early 2000s, same game over and over.

[amber solstice]

We arent still on dark souls 1 or pokemon red with 20 years of updates though. Those are all great examples of games that continue to excel at fresh takes of their trademark formula.

[mossy ruin]

Now I want Darker and Darkest in few years

[warm spoke]

My ideal game:
F2P using ads & battlepass & premium currency to get money

Atleast the userbase will never stagnate or shrink

[lone crescent]

The difference is that they listen to people who loves the game and they don't even care about appealing others

[proud bay]

F2P using adds would make botting and farmers hell to deal with

[lone crescent]

That's how they make games with a soul

Ironmace wants the same thing

[mossy ruin]

it will die on release with that goofy shit

[mental lance]

Real $ currency like diablo 3

[atomic mountain]

Ignore Ame, it’s someone’s alt they use just to troll and trigger people 😒

[amber solstice]

My point was just that's it's hard to do. Not that it was impossible. Far more games go the wrong way and never figure it out. A lot of great games and designs died because mobile gaming and microtransactions were seen as the golden future.

[warm spoke]

Okay lets say the game is $40 you expect there to be no cheating and if there is you expect a ban, you also expect exploits to be patched

[atomic mountain]

It is hard to establish an audience for a new game. My belief is that is good enough to pull it off 😊

[warm spoke]

What if you can't stop the cheating or exploits, then what?

[mossy ruin]

f2p playtesting was amazing for recognition

[proud bay]

I didnt say it would stop it lol, but it would lower it certainly.

[lone crescent]

True.
People wants fresh content but they want the core gameplay an mechanics to stay the same.
Game developers doesn't understand this, i guess that's because they are forced by their bosses to do so, and theese bosses are completly detached from the game community and doesn't know what we want