suggestion-discussion

[deep jacinth]

@pure pollen what if it doesn't degrade mid game but still degrades?

[junior hawk]

Only the Francs. axes are broken. Barbs are fine otherwise.
You could say that quarter staff is a bit strong on their hands, but I believe it's fine

[graceful frost]

Still terrible idea

[deep jacinth]

Francs need to at least be strong they can't be weak or barb just gets completely bullied from any distance that's not 5m

[buoyant knoll]

what's so terrible about it

[graceful frost]

Not even the axes, just the axe perk affecting the axes

[junior hawk]

Fighter with full plate, have around naturally65% movespeed.
Sprints makes that I think +10%. Which is quite fast

[buoyant knoll]

wear and tear as you use items

[abstract swallow]

Sprint is not 50%, it's +50.

[pure pollen]

eh, at least it would deter loot goblins, but still, i dont think it would be worth it, as it would still feel like aids to spend like 1k on a banger item and play for like 3 hours with it and then its value drops by like 40%, if not more, considering worse tiers have less modifiers

[rocky oar]

I think barb dmg is fine, cause at the end of the day any class with enough gear is 2-3 tap and it's even more messed up for classes like Wiz and Ranger to be able to do that. I was able to one tap all squishy classes with fireball to body (not head) once I got really geared and two tap fighter and cleric and I could sometimes 2 tap barb depending on gear.

[junior hawk]

Nah, the slow is way too strong too. While the perk increse the dmg by a insane amount.
The slow is the main problem, once you land one hit, you can hit all other axes easily

[deep jacinth]

I think it would be dumb to if you can have really insanely good gear you could basically infinitely use it as long as you don't die and even if you do die teammates usually bring it back for you anyways

[graceful frost]

It changes the trade system around a ton first of all, it kinda add durability which is a terrible idea. Also say I go into high roller with good gear and make it out with that gear 10+ times why should the gear degrade and punish be for being gold and making it out. Then every trade needs to take into account the durability until downgrade and crap

[junior hawk]

There is no need of degration in the game and honestly, it would make the game unfun in some way.

[abstract swallow]

The slow and followup hits are the point, they're intended to let Fighter and Barbarian perform ranged punishes and trade with mobile/ranged characters.

[graceful frost]

Good point, forgot about the slow, yeah just let’s you chain 3 axes

[deep jacinth]

Once this game is out for a month with a stash that doesn't get reset it's gonna be worse too ngl.

[rocky oar]

I managed to get my Zap up to 115 on dummy which is insane so imagine the amount of dmg I was doing with a half a second cast spell

[pure pollen]

i think the stashes will reset monthly or something even in release

[deep jacinth]

People implied that the rare items are going to be a lot rarer than they are that's what i heard that might fix it a little bit but it will also create even more gear disparity

[junior hawk]

Yeah, the chain of attacks is the real cancer.
Sure, they can hit hard, but the chain slow and dmg of another 3-5 axes? That's bullscrap

[graceful frost]

Yes people with a lot of good gear is annoying wiping lobbies, but they earned that good gear and if you take good gear in and beat another squad with good gear you earn it. You shouldn’t get punished for using the gear. Also stash’s will most likely get reset every 2weeks- a month

[buoyant knoll]

it may change trading for good in my opinion at least at this moment gold is rather useless once you've got really good gear

[surreal basalt]

WTF they did? that makes a lotttt of sense now

[rocky oar]

I think the damage is fine where it is at but I def agree the slow is an actual issue. Even I as a wizard can take 3 franc axes to body until I die and not two hits like ranger arrows and wiz zaps and fireballs

[graceful frost]

Barb is a pain as ranger lol mostly cause of that. I hear a barb so I run to make distance he runs out axes me once then chains them and I die

[deep jacinth]

you also shouldn't be rewarded so much that the game is only a contest about whos geared better

[junior hawk]

Maybe the real item's will be dropped only on the games real bosses.
As of right now, the devs told us that the Lich and Ghost King are merely medium bosses and not the hardest that they plan.
They mention their ambition of adding a dragon boss, maybe that guy can drop unique named items instead of medium bosses like the Lich

[abstract swallow]

Durability is both planned and something the game sorely needs.
It's a gold sink, it's an item sink, and it's a natural tax for punching down into content less lucrative than your gear. The game needs all of these things desperately.

[ancient current]

Lowkey I would dumpster you guys .

[graceful frost]

It will make every trade be based on the amount of time till downgrade will add even more factors on top of attributes rarity class and more

[deep jacinth]

at first it sounds terrible but gold sinks and items sinks are extremely healthy for games

[winged pulsar]

@junior hawk it's already coming though, there will be repairs for your gear, weight etc

[buoyant knoll]

yup

[rocky oar]

I disagree, this game is 100% both gear dependent and skill dependent. I've killed countless people that were much more geared than me.

[pure pollen]

Well, it's a tight balance. Gear shouldn't autowin fights, but neither should a naked guy ever win a similarly skilled geared guy

[graceful frost]

I don’t think it’s planned. Haven’t hear the devs mention anything about it and every suggestion I have seen saying not to have it has gotten upvoted and durability is a terrible idea

[lusty wren]

You mean the tree that may no longer even be happening? 😄 (Ya i know way late)

[deep jacinth]

it can't be both those things are mutually exclusive

[buoyant knoll]

not to mention without this kind of system once you got your dream gear what else is there to farm or aspire ?

[pure pollen]

i mean obviously i was making a point with hyperbole, you have to make gear rewarding but also so that a decently better pilot can win through a gear gap

[winged pulsar]

@graceful frost the leaked document outlining timeline + features (non confirmed) lining up with the already in game repair/weight titles and tabs all but confirms it

There will be repairs, weight, durability etc it's coming man

[abstract swallow]

Well originally my plan was to have a compilation of spawncamping 1,000 teams, but they fixed the spawns, so... Nothing, I guess.

[sturdy anchor]

I personally want it to happen for all classes to have something like two subclasses that change the fantasy of the class, but I was wondering if that a statement about the ranger having a skill tree that allows them to become a druid was confirmed 100%.

[junior hawk]

Idk, I wouldn't much like either degration or weight.
With the exception of being able to equip backs on you character, which lets you carry more and makes you slower.
I don't want the items that I farmed for hours to end up being used just for playing

[deep jacinth]

There wouldn't be anything to aspire to and you'd basically be unkillable if you're at least as skilled as people you're facing

[graceful frost]

You can still die with your gear lol. There are many videos of people dying with god armor and makes uniques and more you can still lose the gear

[junior hawk]

They mentioned that they will be looking for multi classing and such.

[deep jacinth]

realistically you only drop people in much better gear if you're much more skill than them which honestly shouldn't be very common unless you're a skilled player who chooses not to play with gear

[rocky oar]

You can do that with quite a few spawns, the most common one is the church spawn and there is legit 4 spawns right next to the church and I've had so many fights within the first 10 seconds because of church.

[graceful frost]

Until I hear the devs say it’s being added I’m not gonna believe it. Also the bar can easily be reverted if they decide not to, personally durability is a terrible idea

[quick blade]

Gear largely does not make you harder to kill, It instead makes it easier for you to kill things! Not sure why this is a reply?

[buoyant knoll]

if you're running that kind of gear and someone takes it from you they now got that same problem no upgrades to find whatsoever

[abstract swallow]

iirc the weight system is supposed to be tied to the item space system, which would also interact with bags and resourcefulness's Efficiency stat

[graceful frost]

They did not fix spawns, the spawns are awful

[deep jacinth]

Nothing will ever change my mind about item weight though that's the worst idea

[rocky oar]

You're wrong my guy. Gear does make a dif on survivability. It's the only reason my fighter teammate can take more than 1-2 hits to the head from a super geared barb.

[lusty wren]

I like the idea also, but the last QA talking about not thinking it fits the direction of the game I sort of agree with

[winged pulsar]

@graceful frost you can shut your eyes I guess but the evidence is there, they would not have created a weight title on the inventory screen and tabs at vendors for repair if it was not incoming lol

[quick blade]

There will always be upgrades since preference plays apart!

[graceful frost]

Except almost always there is Better gear and you can get more gear. Durability doesn’t change that with max gear there isn’t better gear?

[deep jacinth]

They could still scrap it

[junior hawk]

Though I would agree, that isn't the case for the fighter.
With good gear, they can remove weakness such as rangers and barbs and other fighters.
They influnce less of making you tankier, but they still do for a good amount

[surreal basalt]

agreed. i had white gear as a barb and i killed 2 barbs with purple gear, sure a bit of it was luck but it was also them making several bad moves.

[lusty wren]

They created a "talents" tree that will likely be going away so why cant weight and such also?

[graceful frost]

Except it was created in a playtest and could easily be changed and not put in? Also I’m just saying until the devs confirm it I won’t believe it

[pure pollen]

oh i mean durability would be decent i think, up until now i thought we were still talking about degrading, like items actually dropping a tier after sufficient damage

[abstract swallow]

This is true, but I wanted it to be abundantly clear that I was a force of absolute evil going out of its way to ruin the game for as many people as possible. With the iconic empty spawn chamber no longer avaliable, each clip doesn't passively confirm that I'm dunking on shoeless peasants who haven't even had a chance to put their hands on the keyboard yet.
I wanted to singlehandedly be the reason the heatmaps for spawnrooms were absolutely blazing, and give all Ranger mains a terrible reputation for years to come.

[quick blade]

But you get like 80-90% of that with a full set of white on the fighter.

[surreal basalt]

yeah i really hope they don't add weight, but i did see it in the stats thing in inv

[winged pulsar]

Sure they could, but why would they before trying the implementation that they have obviously planned/ worked on in the backgrounds

And they announced talents are going away ? Last I saw from the leaked sheet they will implement talents in future, not EA release

[lusty wren]

Same reason they are talking about axing talents 😄 (before even testing them)

[deep jacinth]

you think everything in the game they planned to put in the game is going in still? that stuff changes al the time based on how they feel about how it's working

[junior hawk]

lol, you don't.
The a white finese armor gives 60 armor while a purple-legendary gives you 100 armor.
That's 40 armor difference in only one item, without including enchantments.
The difference is huge

[surreal basalt]

someone should do the .suggest command for if they should add weight, i just want to see opinions

[lusty wren]

They said they do not believe it fits the vision of the game ANYMORE

But maybe? LOL

[abstract swallow]

It's like an 18 dev studio, there's not much stopping them from turning this into a scifi battle royale if enough of them get struck with the whim.

[deep jacinth]

every game has stuff cut from it before release there isn't a game that doesn't have something that a dev didn't like all the way through the idea stage

[winged pulsar]

Time will tell, I would be surprised if they didn't add weight and durability/repairs

And in future talents

[buoyant knoll]

nobody wants that

[surreal basalt]

yeah but i want to see community opinion still

[pure pollen]

Am i hearing a star-wars themed cross-over event for the 5 year anniversary?

[lusty wren]

Sure you can hope all you want. But when they specifically stated it likely will get axed id say its more delusion than hope 😄

[deep jacinth]

I just don't see any world where weight would realistically work(in terms of success) in this game

[surreal basalt]

same, idk why they are thinking of adding it, but the devs will do what the devs do. maybe they will implement it differently than other games, but i still can't see its benefit

[deep jacinth]

I think weight was an idea because they see it in other games they see it in D&D how would it not screw up this game idk that one

[sturdy anchor]

Weight is a strange concept since item inventory is already limited. Certainly it is not a objective shattering change, just fills off with the current image of the inventory. A inventory function change would have to come with it to not feel overbearing.

[pure pollen]

how would you even balance weight? i doubt a long stick that takes slots weighs as much as a solid gold 2x2 pan

[winged pulsar]

I will say I do not want weight, durability is okay, we need gold sinks but yeah depends how hardcore they go with it

[graceful frost]

I think weight is the main extremely terrible change. I do not think durability is good but I see more merit to it than for weight

[abstract swallow]

I can see it working pretty easily, especially if it discounts/ignores equipped weapons and armor.
Given that we might be able to wear/loot multiple bags it seems like an obvious addition.

[deep jacinth]

durability could be ok but it'd take proper testing and implementation to where it feels alright

[pure pollen]

it should be a gold tax but not a bank breaker

[graceful frost]

Yeah, but weight I feel like in no world really adds to the game. Durability if done right can,

[winged pulsar]

Weight can be avoided by just continuing with heavier armour having movement speed debuffs etc

[deep jacinth]

that's the worst idea, no offense. Because movement speed is already a top tier stat it'd cause huge issues

[graceful frost]

Tbh the current system with armor and weapons giving less movement I think is perfectly fine

[abstract swallow]

I'm of the opposite opinion, flat penalties for gear types is absolutely terrible. Armor having Weight instead would mean you aren't literally better off naked.

[surreal basalt]

i dont like durability, i think rarity is enough for items, + the random attrbutes like +1 all or +2 phys damage n stuff, that's enough randomness for this game

[winged pulsar]

Yeah that's what I'm saying, I think the current system is fine and I'd prefer it to weight coming in

The only weight debuffs you get are gear based, rather than our entire inventories being weight based as well, that would suck...

[deep jacinth]

Nothing would be rare in like a month or two i guarantee it unless they make things crazy rare

[surreal basalt]

we'll have to see on that one, obviously items are not going to be as common as they are in the playtests because, they're playtests, but who knows

[sturdy anchor]

Here is idea if weight is a concept that wants/is required to be added. Do the TTRPG idea if you can handle the weight, you just get to have it. With only larger items taking up "actually space" in the inventory.

[deep jacinth]

Even after like a week and a half people had massive stashes it wouldn't be that uncommon to see people with the most bs gear

[pure pollen]

okay but like can we all just agree that the worst shit-show is the marketplace, as in it has the most and most obvious improvements

[surreal basalt]

purple i see what you're saying, but i like the system of limited storage vs weight. i just feel like we'd have to have one or the other, and we already have the one we have which is nice and we're used to

[winged pulsar]

@abstract swallow armour having weight would serve the same function as movement speed debuffs it currently has, the only addition weight would add is making everyone hate their lives more by having items in their inventory also slow them down

Heavy armour currently is balanced between it's armour value vs movespeed debuff, I think weights coming but I hope it's the thing they change their tune on out of the lot

[deep jacinth]

the marketplace isn't too bad it could honestly work if it had qol improvments

It just needs a lot more filtering and there needs to be better ways to sell gear to people the classes chat markets didn't make sense logically

[sturdy anchor]

don't want weight either my good friend, just posting things that I have seen get discussed in the game design field. Current inventory feels great to myself.

[surreal basalt]

^ fair enough mb

[deep jacinth]

If any other game this similar to a br did weight it'd absolutely fail too

[proud tinsel]

@quick blade Gear 100% makes you harder to kill, some scale more than others, Barbarians can become gods with the right gear

[surreal basalt]

agility hatchet (hatchet is +5 speed compared to horseman, the damage isnt that big different)

[pure pollen]

anyways, buff longsword

[deep jacinth]

hatchet has other issues it's range is not as good not even close

[surreal basalt]

that's true, but the +5 move speed kinda looks cool tho. but yeah horseman probably better since the range makes that +5 useless but, oh well both are good

[deep jacinth]

it's usable but the horseman is obviously a better option

[sturdy anchor]

My next suggestion, all purple and higher tier loot should have some type of magical glow, unless crouching, so that players can understand at a glance truly how dangerous a player is.

[pure pollen]

seems kind of yikes in a game called dark and darker

[surreal basalt]

ehhh but that'd make stealth much harder. instead of glowing, maybe just being a different color. also ^ that

[deep jacinth]

I don't like that either i'd rather have a less intrusive way to tell glowing would be silly

[winged pulsar]

Yeah that's a bad idea for sure, Infact they need to remove the visual glow rogue daggers get from weak point and rupture, it should only show on the local client for the rogue

[pure pollen]

even so, i think gear tiers should be distinguishable by visual ques, just like vanity changes, much like in many weapons

[sturdy anchor]

not a glow that grants vision, a glow that can be seen. Like a rogue with piecing strike active.

[deep jacinth]

honestly telling when people are in good gear doesn't really seem that hard to me but do you guys have a problem with it?

[tranquil elbow]

This isn't necessarily a bad idea in spirit though. The icons for items better than grey already have shinier art, so it wouldn't be unrealistic to have epic and legendary gear look different, sort of like the kite shields.

[surreal basalt]

purple yeah, it causes light, makes sneaking harder. imagine trying to hide in a corner to ambush and they see you to that glow, that's bad. i think just a color change would be nice. battle ox yeah, i have issues telling if they're super geared. how do you tell?

[pure pollen]

yeah make them look different, not an actualy source of glow

[crimson flax]

you dont even want to guess how heavy those golden vases are. weight is so genuinely unnecessary

[raw belfry]

Im excited for the weight mechanics, as much as i love having 400lbs of gold items on me when i extract, it should definitely show in movement when i have double my body weight in gold in my pockets :p

[surreal basalt]

physics shmysics i want to carry the sun in my pocket and have room to spare - fair enough battle ox, i didn't play too much and i only heard of the game right after 3rd playtest ended lol

[deep jacinth]

@surreal basalt you can just smell it once you have the experience by how they move around and the weapons they use and what they're wearing

[pure pollen]

even if it wasnt unnecessary it would be completely impossible to balance and to have make sense

[graceful frost]

-_- the weight mechanics are awful and add nothing

[surreal basalt]

let him have his opinion.... even if its wrong (joke!)

[deep jacinth]

Idk it feels very obvious what a good player is when you look at how they try to engage you personally

[tranquil elbow]

No definitely not glowing. That's a direct nerf. Maybe a unique would glow like the halberd has a flame. I think the closest thing to that that I could stomach would be treasure sitting on the ground being more visible...or ideally just clickable.

[winged pulsar]

If this game was tarkov level immersion, fine, it's not though, this game is much more stream line and I would hope we don't get that introduced

[crimson flax]

isnt the fun of this game based on your massive hauls and the exploits you have to go through? i might as well not loot or bring additional weapons for strategies or anything--and this isnt going to fix the francisca axe problem either considering these axes are literally almost as heavy as some of these throwing knives

[tranquil elbow]

Remember, accessibility doesn't necessarily mean dumbing the game down. You can have improved information without making things easy mode.

[deep jacinth]

franciscas would be useless if they were sluggish

[pure pollen]

yeeeeah the bangle hitbox is big C

[surreal basalt]

yeah, i find so much fun in this game doing ridiculous crap. i am a 800 pound gorilla with a tiny axe, i will eat you and then jump off that 60 ft tall staircase for fun

[abstract swallow]

I feel like Weight is something the game was intended to have from the get-go.
It'd make a lot of things make more sense, like larger treasure items being less gold-per-slot efficient (which would make sense if they were more WEIGHT efficient), the slapdash -MS gear system, etc.

@winged pulsar It could serve the same purpose and better. Weight can operate in that capacity and still have allowances and mitigation that let you operate as you can now, if well tuned.
I want a world where people aren't punished for wearing low-quality armor, because it's well under their Weight allowance. I want a world where I can choose to take even more loot than I can now if I think it's worth the risk. I want a world where someone desperate enough can dump their backpack onto the floor and high-tail it. I want a world where a Fighter has the option to mitigate his armor's penalties with more depth than just not wearing armor.
I want a diverse selection of backpacks that deal with space and weight! I want to yank the backpacks off defeated players and stash them away to ferry to a portal through the zone! I want to desperately hunt down a Ranger at the start of a wipe and kill him in cold blood so that I can get the kind of backpack that comes in his default kit.

[pure pollen]

how wouldn't this just make running naked the best strategy, and completely neuter tank playstyle, since you could literally never take stuff with you

[graceful frost]

I just don’t get how the weight would add anything fun at all to gameplay

[crimson flax]

im sorry but looting sometimes isnt even worth it if its not a green with an amazing early game stat or blues to fill up your stash and above--i simply dont understand what this weight restriction system is even supposed to do here, it just seems annoying for no reason lmao

[pure pollen]

the loot system is already heavily resourcefullness class skewed, no need to make it more so

[abstract swallow]

Have you ever seen a Weight system before? They scale, and have tiered levels of encumbrance. If you remain within your allowances, there's no advantage to running naked.

[raw belfry]

naked with fists out is literally quicker than everything lol

[crimson flax]

how are we gonna explain rangers carrying around 3 bear traps, a campfire, a bow, spear, on top of their ruck sack and clothes? they near max encumberance with their base gear? like wtf is this for?

[winged pulsar]

Yeah nothing you said convinced me, hell I don't even want backpacks, I just want stash boxes we can craft, the inventory being what it is has been fine, especially with the limited time we have in there, weight would be a drag lol

[graceful frost]

Yeah just seems annoying with no actual gameplay addition. Just punishes you for actual taking loot lmao, when a barb with no loot will just outrun a ranger with loot and you lose it all I don’t see how that add to the game. Literally punishes earning loot and picking it up

[sturdy anchor]

I think still there should be an easily noticeable difference that doesn't require you to stare into the axe blade as rams into your skull. Maybe I am just too color blind ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[surreal basalt]

looting system is already given some priority to some items by a: usability and b: rarity. weight is bad

[pure pollen]

ooh you mean an actual cap into "over-encumberance" like in TES, rather than a specific speed stat getting reduced by each piece of gear you have

[crimson flax]

like man we already have straight mechanics BASED around looting. why are punishing ourselves for playing the game? i guess there's no point in things like skeleton or gold rooms, or hell, going down when most of the loot will overencumber you in like two items? or just gold in general considering how heavy that stuff is

[abstract swallow]

You got it man, I don't think anybody wants a T*rkov style "every piece of gear slows you, every item slows you, not getting out of bed right slows you" type of situation.

[surreal basalt]

lol

if a weight system IS introduced, that system you're talking about badger, i hope that's what they do. i hope even more that no weight is added, but small mercies

[abstract swallow]

Given that the devs ACTUALLY PLAY THEIR OWN GAME I don't think they'll do anything absolutely unfun and out of touch.
If they do add Weight, it'll be a system we can actually interact with for sure.

[surreal basalt]

woo - also it's still so stupid and funny that nik*ta has no idea how to aim down ironsights in tarkov

[graceful frost]

Yeah the only way it would be fine is if it’s a very small amount of change but then what the point of it. A barb with no loot shouldn’t be able to outrun a rogue with loot lol

[pure pollen]

also, wouldnt that also make the primary speed stat strength and not agility?

[surreal basalt]

oh damn, you're right

[abstract swallow]

Obviously we need to give a post-WeightUpdate Rogue the ability to sneak very quickly with a big moneybag with a dollar sign on it when overencumbered.

[deep jacinth]

I'm down for a movement speed buff as barb I already love the quarterstaff.

[rough gorge]

so y'all saying someone in full plate should be just as fast as someone in cloth or leather not to mention that fighter has sprint and he would be zoomin to you faster than him with the armor weight restrictions, thats why plate has high physical def but it has weak magical def and its gonna weigh you down, ive tried to run in plate its not a quick endeavor

[crimson flax]

thats just quarterstaff

[pure pollen]

shut your barbarian mouth

[surreal basalt]

fr, makes my life easier - or, if not, time to fist people :))))

[sturdy anchor]

Weight, if it will be added, (please no) then it affecting speed will making the game even more speed is king. I personally do not want the most important stat to be MS. I want to be a Buff lad, that says, "I am the Juggernaut." so it should not touch speed.

[graceful frost]

Lol

[abstract swallow]

Splitting up speed stats is probably a good thing tbh.
STR for weight limits, AGI for straight MS, and RSC for bag stats or something

[hasty fulcrum]

The total darkness blind game mode is an amazingly fire suggestion. Hell yeah.

[graceful frost]

Why do you have to make it much harder to survive to be able to carry out money lol

[rough gorge]

weight is already in the game its on your armor anything in your pockets dont weigh anything just what you are wearing

[surreal basalt]

also, does anyone know how to beat ignite haste invis wizard as a barb? because that wizard strat is so stupid and dumb, i honestly dont know if its fightable - they're faster

[pure pollen]

run iron will

[abstract swallow]

Run IW+Healthy and go for the blind axe throw before he lands the instagib ("Instagib" is a reference to being suddenly killed with a powerful blow, which typically reduced the victim to a pile of giblets; a process called 'gibbing' after the butchery technique).

[graceful frost]

Throwing axes when they off invis and iron will is about your 2 options

[surreal basalt]

tf is the instagib - fighter swiftness + he gets franciscas too right? but, that'd also be hard and maybe not work. he gets like 2 shot by fireball right?

[pure pollen]

now if you ask me how to beat it with fighter, man i have no clue

[tranquil elbow]

How do you guys think making MS penalty from armor scale down with strength would work? That way tanks could actually itemize such that they could not just be an immobile fortress. This would require the nerfing of sprint, mind, but it could be a way to allow people to feel good running heavier items if their strength gives them a threshold to not be penalized up to. Like 15 strength means you can have -15 negated, but going naked doesn't make you have +15.

[surreal basalt]

interesting system, definitely buffs barb so yes pleaseeeee

[sturdy anchor]

yeah, speed is king, why do people go fully naked into goblin cave if not for speed. I want a system that allows for the fighter in full steel armor to be viable

[pure pollen]

i mean, either make armor better or slow less

[surreal basalt]

i think we're leaning into the damage - armor growth rate desparity. it's 10x easier to grow dmg vs armor, which i think is going to be fixed, i hope

[rough gorge]

like most fights you would want it to be in your favor, did you stalk your wizard prey and watch what spells they are using , are you gonna strike when they are trying to meditate, all situations differ to theirs or yours

[pure pollen]

even more so, make god damn helmets better

[abstract swallow]

That's pretty much been half of every Weight suggestion that's been any good.
You can bulk up, but you've got to invest if you want to keep your speed.

[surreal basalt]

unclesloth the wizard has ambushed me and has appeared in my face after his invis spell ended. i had no idea he was near and have my fists out. fisting time?

[pure pollen]

an arrow should do basically nothing against full plate, and vice versa, said plate guy should never be able to catch the ranger

[surreal basalt]

we need flintlocks and blunderbusses

[rough gorge]

still is its just weak to pierce and magic , tanks at most are against physical were if we had a paladin give or take they would have more magic resistance, like all things pick your fights use your kit to your favor

[pure pollen]

i think matchup ubderstanding should be implemented more into the game, so that sometimes people would actually just choose to not take every fight they see

[surreal basalt]

yeah this is an issue i have, i love taking every since possible fight even if i know im going to die. it's lost me so much

[pure pollen]

dont get me wrong i love fighting but everyone should be scared of someone and not scared of someone, and weary of the rest

[rough gorge]

no you dont do you know how long it takes to reload a shot, you would shoot once and then die while trying to reload (put the powder wad and ball pack it real quick and light the fuse then fire)

[sturdy anchor]

I personally want time to kill to be lower, but not in terms of health or armor, in term of the use and counter use of spells, abilities, and actions. Realistically, if you got solidly hit in the head, (sometimes) you would just kneel over and die.

[surreal basalt]

i was joking, but yeah, we need a firing squad in that case!

[pure pollen]

barbs and rangers should fear fighters, fighters should fear mages and rogues, mages should fear barbs and rangers (maybe rogues), rogues should fear the light, sprinkle clerics somwhere in there

this would also incentivise varied team comps, rather than triple stacks

[surreal basalt]

of course this is very broad rxk, as a horseman wielding psychopathic naked barbarian that fighter should piss his pants, but that mage may or may not care. and a spear fighter should never fear anyone - the spear thing is a joke, mages and rangers and maybe(?) rogues would counter it well i think

[pure pollen]

yeah i mean obviously varying playstyles should throw the basic rock paper scissors into a fit, more power to it, but i meant this super duper broadly

for example an axe wielding barb should fear a fighter, while a war-mauled one wouldnt care less

[abstract swallow]

I think pursuing a hard counterplay with classes isn't a great design philosophy; classes in a game like this are better looked at as "toolkits"; RXKIM has the right idea.

[pure pollen]

make multiple weapon types have a reson to be equipped

[sturdy anchor]

"Parry this, you filthy causal." - the longsword

[pure pollen]

i would still try to parry a war maul coming for my dome and cope about it when it smokes me

[surreal basalt]

longsword and spear are genuinely insane - also, i want halberd on my barb just cause

[pure pollen]

no, you cant have everything

[surreal basalt]

:((((((((((((

[pure pollen]

after halbeard ud be coming for my crossbow

[surreal basalt]

ew no range bad

[sturdy anchor]

I think some, (maybe all??), melee weapons should have some type of defensive option. Maybe not small axes or daggers, but once again, nerf speed is king.

[pure pollen]

halbeard is basically ranged, and dont try to tell me otherwise

[surreal basalt]

i see the people trying to give rogue range and i'm like "throwing dags are more than enough tf do you people want"

[jaunty narwhal]

what do people think about a 4 player map like what was shown in one of the loading screens?

[pure pollen]

i dont think it can be done without a hard cap of 2 of the same class, maybe even 1

[surreal basalt]

4 clerics on their way to fist everyone:

[junior hawk]

They would have to make a wider map and it might get too ridiculous with 4 people going a certain classes

[abstract swallow]

It would need its own tileset-- the current maps barely support 3 man teams.

[pure pollen]

how would you feel about an arena mode, not only for sparring and such but maybe even tourneys with wagers and such

[sturdy anchor]

A four player pure pve would be fine, have a strong optional boss that is the only true blue+ loot of the dungeon. It could work.

[jaunty narwhal]

depending on where the devs take it. i suggested having a dragon cave with a mix of both enemies from both current maps and down portals would lead to a giant dragon boss tbh

[surreal basalt]

i dont think this game would benefit from a pure pve or pure pvp mode, but thats my personal opinion

[jaunty narwhal]

cause you know, dungeons are going to need giant dragons at some point.

[sturdy anchor]

maybe 4v4vNPC

[surreal basalt]

also someone in the main chat suggested purple portals that are gambling, 50% to hell 50% escape. how y'all feel about that?

[junior hawk]

Arena doesn't fit the game and can't be made fair without many limitations.
I would like sparring to exist for me to practice with a friend the weapons, but there shouldn't be a seperate PvP mode exept of going inside a dungeon

[pure pollen]

i mean i would absolutely love to be able to just spar with people, develop combat skills

[surreal basalt]

i WOULD like a casual pvp mode, but it's not a dungeon, you can't gain loot besides, if they let tournaments happen, winning a tourney

[jaunty narwhal]

maybe an arena at the tavern would make more sense to me and add a gambling addition to that. a life or death category for true pvp players or just sparring for practice

[junior hawk]

The tavern doesn't usualy last long, so that might be kinda pointless.

[jaunty narwhal]

the gathering halls maybe?

[pure pollen]

i thought they were gonna make the lobby be sort of a tavern, like the current pregame

like an actual in game plaace isntead of the one table we currently have

also, does anyone know is there any lore out for the game?

[junior hawk]

There is some lore...but not much

[jaunty narwhal]

tbh, i was thinking the same when they said they added a "gathering hall" you'd think you can actually gather people there but i guess servers are needed on actual matches

[pure pollen]

i think it would be cool

espec with the voip, the gathering hall to be an actual hall where people gather

maybe a little esoteric and it might die quickly, but not necessarily

[junior hawk]

Like the existence of the four horseman, the existace of black dragon that inflicts soul damage... The Penobscots warrior race...and that Demigods exist

[pure pollen]

Do we have any idea what "The Dark" is? Besides beetles

[jaunty narwhal]

unless they add in that gambling arena for people who only want to 1v1. they would flock to that

[junior hawk]

Nothing confirmed.
For all we know, it might be the "will" of the dungeon, a curse casted by the Lich or who knows what.
Nothing till yet

[pure pollen]

idk if its a shit idea but i hope they find a way to continuously monetize the game, without it being complete aids, something like 50 cents for 10 tickets to the 1v1 arena

something small but enough that they can get a steady flow of revenue and doesnt affect gameplay at all, literally a luxury service

[jaunty narwhal]

i mean as they are right now, if they started adding cosmetic skins for weapons and armor pieces to look cooler i would def buy them

[pure pollen]

but that would kind of mess up the whole recognizing gear thing

[junior hawk]

That would be obnoxious in my opinion, paying to play sounds quite bad. (I mean like paying to get tickets to join a game mode btw.)
My best guess would be cosmetics or life quiality features

[jaunty narwhal]

it would be gear specific so it's still easier to identify. like a fine cuirass would still look like one but with added flare and pizzaz and same with the templar and dark plate

[pure pollen]

yeah i considered that aswell, but that was the best i came up with, and tried to make it a pretty reasonable price, only issue there would be steam minimum 5e deposit

[jaunty narwhal]

i mean weapon cosmetics would also look identical to what their base weapon was since you can't really the shape and form of them anyways

[pure pollen]

i mean i think they could even slap a supporter thing in the game for nothing and people would do it, yes i am people

[abstract swallow]

Cosmetics (for equipment) would really rub me the wrong way in this particular game, it's already hard enough to identify equipment and rarity.

[pure pollen]

what, are you telling me you cant tell the difference of a gray hilted longsword and a gray-blue hilted longsword, from a distance, in poor-by-medieval-standards light?

[junior hawk]

I agree with the items such as weapons and armor... But like, buying emotes, campfire party tricks and such I don't see the harm.
Like, imagine being able to play rock, paper, scissors while seating on the campfire.
That would be cool

[jaunty narwhal]

tbh though rarity changes are honestly so subtle that i would push someone with epic gear only having greens and whites and still come out on top somehow

[pure pollen]

i cant believe they made the campfire thing a potato and bacon instead of a marshmallow....

[jaunty narwhal]

idk if the medieval ages had marshmallows tbh

[pure pollen]

were there people who can throw fireballs (this was a joke fuck slow mode)

[junior hawk]

I think they want to keep modern things out so not to ruin the medieval feel.

[jaunty narwhal]

yeah but fireballs kinda fit medieval standards if you consider that they use a gandalf staff to throw em out

[pure pollen]

yeah i get that its medieval fantasy

[jaunty narwhal]

if they had that pop out of a wand like harry potter then i would question that a quite a bit

[pure pollen]

wands are cringe, staves are for men

[junior hawk]

Wands are in development I think.
Also, I heard from someone that the devs said that they would contain charges of a spell.
Can't confirm it, but wands were found in the data base of the game.
As wherever they will allow you to cast spells, idk

[pure pollen]

oh hell no, dont give them extra spells

[abstract swallow]

Everybody's packing spells when Wands drop. You'd best be watching for those invisible Rangers with Shotgun primed.

[inner ember]

Wands will be purely melee, for poking and blunt damage

[thick snow]

rogue smokebomb is meh. makes no sense that the animation is the same as a rupture/hide/weakpoint. an overall rework and the ability to be throwable makes more complete sense then what the current state of it is. Obv a distance maximum should be places to prevent any OPness to it. but the ability for it to be throwable would open up another style of gameplay for rogues other then the invis rogue.

[hard herald]

healing for barbs every 15 hits on a mob siphon back 10 hp or something like that limited healing for them as well they really dont have a lot of skills

[pastel river]

This is a joke right?

[hard herald]

no

[leaden tide]

#d-and-d-suggestions message
opinions?

[stray saffron]

disslike that queue for the next map. all it does is make you wait going to the next one and isn't rewarding you for taking other parties out cause new ones just show up. if the loot gets reworked people will be more willing to delve deeper instead of backing out. but at the same time lower amount of groups each floor is also a good thing as the difficulty per floor ramps up

[leaden tide]

I always saw killing players as a ego boost, dopamine rush and loot to be good enough reasons to kill them. I would much rather face more enemies in B2 than have empty B2 and even emptier B3.

Will also reduce the rate at which gear is farmed since farming bosses will suddenly become much harder and much more risky. (Which isn't risky at all right now since literally no one even goes down to B3 besides good parties tbh)

As for queue times, don't think it's an issue, this game is arguably one of the fastest games to find and match people

queues are nearly non existant from my experience. B2 queues would very likely be longer due to way less players but highly doubt it would be longer than a min

all you need is 18 players to start the map, that's 18 players per minute, assuming only 10% of players go down to B2 from B1 that's 3 players per round. So for a full queue in B2 you would need 6 rounds of B1 (6x32 = 192 players per minute in B1) per region. That's easy pz numbers

[proud tinsel]

Its fast to find a match in the first week what will it be like after that? 2 million to 200k??

[leaden tide]

And this is me being conservative, numbers will likely be higher than 10% since B1 loot will likely be ass

[leaden tide]

I played in playtest 1 when we had like 5k players or smth it was just as fast lol

[stray saffron]

well no people pvp because people are people, give them the option and they'll just choose to do so. some people get out, some go lower that's good how it is. if you add queue with multiple dungeons those that go in early needs to wait for their dungeon to end, find another dungeon to fill theirs up with and then wait even longer till that one is done. the queue time currently is because there's alot of people playing currently, got to think about the long run too.

for the rate gear is farmed...i dissagree too, 1 party farming the boss or 4 parties farming the boss it stays the same only difference is player interuption and or just wait and let someone else farm it for you.

the reason so few "good parties" went down is cause they got themself killed or left early. should parties that go down be punished cause people left?

[leaden tide]

You wouldn't have to wait for your dungeon to end, you'd just get matched with new parties, so the queues would be nearly instant. As I posted above, the numbers of players needed for queues under 1 minute are insanely low and that was with me being conservative at only 10% of players going down to B2. The actual number will likely be higher (probably 20-30%) as loot will be very very bad in B1 most likely, which further reduces the amount of players needed to fill it up.

I played in Play test 1 and I believe we had around 5k players or maybe even less and the queues were still instantaneous. It's very unlikely for this game to ever go under that player count within 2-3 years minimum. Especially with the wipes mechanic keeping the game fresh and alive.

And no it doesn't stay the same. Not all parties go to B2 or B3 to farm the boss, but they might try to kill people doing it. The people that are doing it, if they die they're also losing gear that may not be able to replace right away.

It leads to an overall much slower and riskier boss killing (as it should be) instead of the way it is currently where they are always uncontested and free for any party that knows the strategy to kill it. That's why everyone is already swimming in uniques and legendaries after 3-4 days. (I know drop rate is increased currently, but the issue will remain. Instead of 3-4 days it'll be a week or a week and a half at best)

[tawdry mica]

yall like my suggestion? i thought long and hard on it

[stray saffron]

you do say you'd get matched instantly, but some people were saying they had to wait to queue so it's not gonna be as instantly as you say unless the playerbase stays the same. for your numbers, depending on the amount of player stomping that's going to happen i'd raise those more toward 50% with how bad the loot might be.

don't forget that ontop of people losing gear to bosses, or to the players after them that gear just ends up on the market. but seeing the b3 bosses are going to b2 i'm already expecting them to be swarmed too much to even go there.

true it will lead to a slower boss killing, especially depending on the ring location too many players will just make a boss impossible unless they just wait at the door for a party to finish.

[leaden tide]

It wont be impossible but it will definitely be harder, same way that the circle room with the wraith and skeleton commander isn't impossible and it's still often disregarded by a large majority of players that simply aren't interested or don't know how to kill the boss so they just avoid it entirely to farm in safety.

The queue times being high are mostly server side issues, not particularly a player count problem, they are usually fixed after a while. Trust me, I played this when the game had super low population and queues were still instantaneous.

I wouldn't say 50% since I'm fairly confident a lot of people WILL die in B1 to pvp so maybe not 50% but I also wouldn't rule it out as impossible tbh. Either way the point is that there's really only benefits for the games longevity & overall health.

Gear being farmed slower > more longevity, gear feels more rewarding since its harder, less gear disparity as tehre wont be as many people in legendary/unique gear
People dying more often doing bosses > More gear lost (since you likely wont be able to loot it or boss kills you), again increasing game longevity and gear rarity/scarcity
More PvP instead of the feeling of being in an empty dungeon > Better for the community to keep everyone on their toes instead of feeling like they're safe the moment they go down

[proud tinsel]

You think B1 will be worse than Goblin caves?

[abstract swallow]

Goblin Caves is balanced around shop greys/whites, B1 will be slightly easier than that.

[leaden tide]

probably

[proud tinsel]

I think if they went that direction people would think it a waste of time to even go

[leaden tide]

Not really, goblin caves is pretty bad for good loot. if you want good loot you would eventually have to go to B2/B3 and for that you gotta get past B1

[stray saffron]

wraiths and skeleton champions aren't bosses, they're mini bosses. lots of people avoid them cause they're strong mobs, or kite them around so they're someone else's problem.

with the size difference in b1 there's a higher chance of people going down early instead of over looting and then getting killed. that's usually what people that don't intend to go down to b3 do. pvp aside cause you'll always have people hunters.

well more gear getting farmed slower is more people complaining they're waiting for hours on the market to have some equipment... and people die to bosses either way without rats waiting to strike.
more pvp isn't needed cause that seems what the issue is already with people going down. there's never a "safe" going down the only "safe" is leave

[atomic mountain]

I think we’re all glossing over the fact that they created the goblin caves from not having an idea to being implemented in the game with a boss in 2 1/2 weeks with only one 3-D modeler on the dev team

[stray saffron]

heard b1 difficulty was going to be b2 and b2 going to be b3 difficulty with b3 being even harder

[proud tinsel]

Right I mean people would feel like gear is gated behind a time sink and just be pissed about b1

[atomic mountain]

It even said experimental on the game mode. So we have no idea Whether they’re happy with the balance of that game mode or if they plan to change it

[abstract swallow]

Why would they be upset that gear/loot is... gated later into the play session?
That's the entire premise of the game dude

[stray saffron]

it's a good incentive to make people want to go deeper instead of dipping out

[leaden tide]

The thing with the difficulty is that its not the mobs being tanky or dealing a lot of damage. B3 is harder because of the harder attack patterns and less space to kite and less ways to cheese. B2 mobs could have 2x the HP and 2x the damage and it still wouldnt be as hard as a mob with a harder attack pattern

[atomic mountain]

The loot table was stated to be “The same as normal dungeon”

[stray saffron]

only negative about it would be the gear difference veterans bring in vs new people on b1 which is something we've seen happening in LR

[abstract swallow]

I think if they fix damage scaling/stacking then this will actually be a boon, not a bane.
If a dude planning to go to B3 doesn't have 6x the damage as someone preparing to go past B1 for the first time there's a lot more incentive for interaction and nonviolence, and a lot more risk for trying to lobbywipe (especially against 20+ other people).

[stray saffron]

longer drawn out pve leads to people making mistakes too leading to the high amount of pve deaths you always see, but yes smaller hallways and terrain in general aswell as different attack patterns make it more difficult. that's why i'm excited to see what they'll do for the new b3 difficulty

[stray saffron]

well yeah but you can see what i mean. sure they're prepared to go in deep so they're more powerful, which makes sense. but that power is also needed when they reach b3. but you know with power people will just trample over others.

the only way to prevent noob stomping is gear limiting or letting them queue for deeper instead. but that will also keep some randomness out of the game of encountering and striking gold when you do take down a geared player

[abstract swallow]

If they did it with the game as it is now? Absolutely.
But if they take the time to strip out +Damage stacking gear, give Attributes proper scaling, and replace the numerous stacking damage passives then that situation is almost completely different.
If you aren't going to oneshot a guy in full whites, are you going to take that same risk? How many teams of those low-gear players do you think you can take back-to-back in a 30-man lobby, and what are the chances that you aren't the biggest fish in that lobby?

[gusty dew]

the whole point of the game is gear differential idk why people are still talking about it

[bitter stratus]

<@&988703997378584596> Im going to assume someone already dealt with this weirdo?

#d-and-d-suggestions message

[opaque shore]

What the hell.

[stray saffron]

i mean that's the whole point of gear right? you're stronger but that doesn't mean you can't be killed. in the first place i'm not one that seeks out the pvp, i just deal with it when it comes my way. if you have someone have higher gear in the lobby just means now you became the noob that gets stomped.

[opaque shore]

I will advise you to not do suggestions like that ever again. @tawdry mica

[proud tinsel]

I don't disagree I'm just saying that people don't like being having things being further time gated. They have said that gear progression would be slower and this is an easy way to do it.

[stray saffron]

i mean i get that, it's not fun if you got to sink lots of time in a game to lose it all, but that's sort of the type of game it is?

[abstract swallow]

Fair enough, they've been very upfront that progression and loot is cranked way up for the playtests, but some people will obviously feel entitled to that accelerated gameplay loop.

[opaque shore]

Good thing I never lose it all, I give it all away

[stray saffron]

i never gave it away, besides to friends dropping it for them in the dungeon. i supplied the merchants of the game instead of the market. poor merchants need some love and supplies too

[granite plinth]

Wow this makes me want to suggest a wraith king boss we have to kill. Good ideas bro

[stray saffron]

do you mean ghost king?

[surreal basalt]

okay someone made a suggestion earlier that champs and wraiths would completely replace one another for diff bosses. i don't like that since skele champ has his own several rooms, as does wraith. instead, lets just make a lich skin and a ghost king skin for both of them. bien o malo?

[stray saffron]

nah i'm kinda against that, lots of people dissliked ghost king so if they get warned it's a ghost king dungeon they'd dip before even going to b3 to the queue elsewhere. there's fun in the next boss being a mystery

[mossy oasis]

@stray saffron why do you always take 🤔? Cant you make up your mind lol

[smoky yoke]

toggle crouch will be surely a thing
I like it as option (even if I won't use it)
but more options is always a nice thing

if it can help, this is planned
it will be a thing for sure

[mossy oasis]

🙂 im glad

[stray saffron]

i vote up and down plenty enough, it's more getting that for even if the option isn't around could always use sticky key to bring it in too. and high likely already was going to be added already.

[smoky yoke]

B3 bosses are meant to be in B2

[surreal basalt]

ah ok, sorry i haven't kept up with updates and stuff, i want to be suprised

[smoky yoke]

so it could be a chance 🤔
but maybe it may be in another place

[smoky yoke]

Q: Will there ever be more maps and bosses?
A: Yes. We want to add as many maps and dungeons as possible. Bosses must also appear constantly. I am dreaming of a dragon boss like on the high roller art. I guess I can say this: The Lich and Ghost King are not B3 bosses. They were the bosses of B2. They have been living there for some time now.

from the dev qna

[mossy oasis]

Only 1 month and a half left BoIS. Keep them suggestions going. Its the only form of gameplay right now.

[stray saffron]

i do hope they keep the bosses a little bit of a surprise

[smoky yoke]

ahah like roaming in the map?
maybe could be epic

[white cliff]

Hey, what’s the users name who you responded to? I have them blocked I’m just curious on who it is.

[stray saffron]

nah not roam the map, but that could be interesting to have too. a minotaur would be a good example.

[smoky yoke]

one of the friend of desolent and mrbeanz I think

[stray saffron]

it's the message above that, you can still see their message without unblocking them

[white cliff]

Fun, I hadn’t seen any of them since last PT. First time I’ve seen a blocked name in a while.

[white cliff]

Nah, there’s just a pencil in front of the icon and no name. That’s why I asked.

[smoky yoke]

maybe doing some quest in the dungeon to release the beast

but yes the minotaur it would be epic
it kinda fits with the setting

I say kinda but it truly fit to the fantasy vibe ahah

[stray saffron]

could be fun too but i also like the idea of going down...you open your door and suddenly gulp and slowly close it as you got a boss spawn on you

[white cliff]

Anybody have the link to the UE5 asset pack, I’m curious on what mobs they haven’t used yet.

[stray saffron]

ah i see, it's odd cause i still have a "reveal message" thing to click on

a boss being able to smash doors and just chase you sounds fun too

but at the same time i think that's going to give people more ways of killing others by kiting the boss and locking someone else in with it

[smoky yoke]

going invisible also

[smoky yoke]

https://discordapp.com/channels/988365908009447485/1030185258345304094/1066412870272823297

oh these are only the mummies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6JZR4qyEbI @white cliff

[stray saffron]

pretty much yeah

always dissliked people doing that to kill others if there's no pvp option

[smoky yoke]

in that channel there is also a nice minotaur.
It does not meant they will buy it and then use it
but who knows
I hope they will buy it ahah
that's nice
I like that monster series bundle
they became part of

[stoic thorn]

I found some of them, they use models made by the Sychov Brothers and PolygonMaker
Here are some links
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/profile/Polygonmaker?count=20&sortBy=effectiveDate&sortDir=DESC&start=0
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/profile/Sychov+Brothers?count=20&sortBy=effectiveDate&sortDir=DESC&start=0
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/product/modular-skeleton-archer

[peak ermine]

i liked the addition of VOIP but its execution was super sloppy
go ahead and talk to the stranger, but oh no, they gotta TURN IT ON to hear you, hehe

[stoic thorn]

agreed

[smoky yoke]

the monster series bundle is very nice

[stoic thorn]

ya it isn't bad, wouldn't mind seeing that humongous spider in the game
new boss

[smoky yoke]

they may have bought them individually
not necessarily the entire bundle

[stoic thorn]

Awwwwww

I feel like mama spider would be a nice addition to the game 🥲

[smoky yoke]

cause i see the option to buy them also individually
the bundle is about 500$ ahah
and there are some that perhaps don't fit with the setting, so they may went buying them individually which is fair

[smoky yoke]

yea true i think that as well

[stray saffron]

would love a spider boss too...so many people would hate it cause "I'm stuck on the little spiders again!"

[smoky yoke]

maybe won't be a problem if it would be very big

don't talk about this 🙂
delete the message please

[stoic thorn]

Maybe some day we'll have a different rotation of maps and see enemies like this in them based on the setting
https://www.unrealengine.com/marketplace/en-US/product/horde-lizard-man

[smoky yoke]

it is okay to talk what they used, in the marketplace
however as it stands in the rules
[10] - Sharing any information that is data-mined from the game is prohibited.

[stoic thorn]

Hahaha mb I gotcha

[smoky yoke]

no problem, thank you for your understanding

[proud tinsel]

I wont turn voip on. I KNOW what I will say and I really dont care to hear others be toxic either

[stoic thorn]

I'm just stoked and looking forward to everything

[smoky yoke]

yea understandable to be honest
luckily there is the option to turn it off, and by default it's off which is great. If people want it to be on, they can activate it
i don't understand people that ask voip should be ON by default also 🤔

[stoic thorn]

I thought VOIP would put you at a disadvantage if you didn't turn it on but honestly you're going to hear their footsteps before you ever hear them talk.

[smoky yoke]

this in my opinion will be never be a disadvantage
people will always use discord rather than using voip in-game

[crimson flax]

Yeah having VOIP on didnt change much at all lol

[stoic thorn]

in the sense that someone else might give their location out because they're feeling snarky and want to bm on someone in game

[smoky yoke]

I liked when there wasn't at all before
silent gameplay

[stoic thorn]

same

[smoky yoke]

yea sure i guess
perhaps the voice range is around the same with the footsteps i believe but i didn't test it

[crimson flax]

Personally if there was gonna be ways to communicate and socialize with other players I just wish there was more to do with it. After all, one of the core tenements of dungeons and dragons is socializing. Theres just not much of a reason for me to genuinely care or hear about what someone with an annoying voice has to say--especially when I have a mute button always on my left click

[smoky yoke]

what's a bm btw? i don't know these terms

[stoic thorn]

search up the slang 😂

[crimson flax]

Bad manners

[smoky yoke]

once I suggested a wheel where characters could say things like "come here!" "thank you" "wait!"
so the characters could feel more alive

[stoic thorn]

"what does it mean to bm in video games"

[smoky yoke]

oh i see

[crimson flax]

Emotes are alright I guess. I find it funnier to do stupid things with them if anything

[smoky yoke]

i honestly did, but it came across with "bruh moment" but thank you either way
didn't know this term

[stoic thorn]

https://hitmarker.net/what-does-bm-mean#:~:text=BM is an abbreviation of,a game — typically competitive titles.

[smoky yoke]

yea surely there will be more emotes to communicate
i wish there was also some type of communication linked to a social wheel like the emotes but with voicelines
but since they implemented voip, maybe they won't bother for now

[boreal elbow]

@loud zinc how would d&d be accessible to blind people? Even if you had a pve only dungeon that relied on sound and not sight wouldn't work because monsters have different attack patterns and even non blind people wouldn't be able to see where chests and corpses are, let alone items, armor, weapons, etc.

[peak ermine]

toxic begets toxic

@smoky yoke i don't understand people that ask voip should be ON by default also
because talking to a brickwall is fun.
Either no VOIP outside of the party, an indicator that shows someone has voip on, or just no voip at all

[stray saffron]

i get the whole aren't getting heard issue, but some people want to be able to listen yet only speak in team too which i'm then against.

[peak ermine]

yes

[abstract swallow]

You can have accessibility features that don't involve sight, I play with a dude that is actually legally blind and I'm sure he could give some pointers.
It's a lot simpler than you think: Distinctive patterns/the ability to set palettes (especially for UI elements), tones for mouseover, and outlines for moving objects are all pretty basic things that can dramatically improve the game for someone hard-of-vision.

[peak ermine]

legally blind people getting one tapped by a barbarian
walking into traps
not seeing escape portals?

[abstract swallow]

He plays our Wizard, and somehow I've had more friendly fire incidents than him.

[peak ermine]

if i were blind, id just be chilling with audiobooks

[abstract swallow]

It's not like the guy doesn't have eyeballs, he just can't operate machinery (read: drive).
(That said it's really funny to walk up to him without saying anything and watch him jump back and move the camera around to check for the nametag)

[peak ermine]

hah

that's honestly some prime content, playing dark and darker with my legally blind friend

[abstract swallow]

I think he's actually in someone's youtube videos, he used to play a ton of Vermintide, but I'd have to track it down since that was like 7 years ago now

[merry lion]

how bad are you

[abstract swallow]

If having concern for the position and wellbeing of my teammates was a practice of law, I'd have been disbarred.

[stray saffron]

pretty guilty there too...no mather how often i told them lightning strike, chain lightnings, fireballs or MM were being launched they just jumped infront of it every time

[peak ermine]

"Fireballs going out."
friend takes a step to the left and receives it in the back of their head

[stoic thorn]

Is judgement free damage if you get it off and are in range??
or is it a skillshot??

[stray saffron]

it's pretty much a lock on can't block damage yeah

[stoic thorn]

they need to rework it if that's the case

[crimson flax]

wait you're supposed to hit fireballs???? thats wild

[stoic thorn]

No matter what if a cleric looks at you and prays on you... you lose half your health. Kinda dumb

[peak ermine]

i cant hit enemies for shit, but gods, let me tell you, my friends cant catch a break

[stoic thorn]

Like I can kite the fireballs, magic missiles, lightning spells, etc but having something that's pretty much unblockable to me is kinda wild. How is the solo supposed to win against the 3 man if he's fighting the barb and then also losing half his health because they cleric decided to chant in his direction.

[crimson flax]

you have to play really poorly if you're getting killed by judgment like that

[stoic thorn]

It's not even getting killed by it, it's the fact that if you get cornered and have to focus on the other 2 people the third guy can get free damage off without any skill put in for it.

[slate tartan]

If you're a solo and you see a trio with a cleric you are just supposed to run, unless you're wearing a pretty good set and can burst him down first

[stoic thorn]

I guueeessss, all im saying is I wish they made the move more skill oriented. There's no harm in that right?

[slate tartan]

Definitely not, I hate judgement 😂 running into 3 clerics is beyond frustrating but it is what it is

[gray vessel]

or if you are ranger you can just pick at them over and over kiting forever until they run out of heals 😂

[stoic thorn]

I don't mind it I just wish I had an option to counter it instead of accepting I'm gonna have to eat this cuz i hear a dude chanting 3 feet off to the side

[stray saffron]

it's just like zap, it's limited range for that reason

[slate tartan]

They slow walk at you with their shield raised like it's gonna do something 😂

[stoic thorn]

All abilities should take skill to get damage off in this game, that's all i gotta say.

[gray vessel]

I saw a super geared cleric in the caves, walking around LITERALLY one-shotting each player with judgement. I was watching because I too was oneshot by it, as a warrior with about 88 hp lmao

[stoic thorn]

exactly what i'm talking about

[gray vessel]

They would just self heal and walk around insta killing players with no skill. 100% needs to be fixed.

[inner ember]

Got a video?

The stats on judgement are pretty fair, 35dmg that requires them to be in your crosshair when the spell starts, and within 4.5m, 32s cooldown

[surreal basalt]

i think they must've had +phy damage and +magic dmg, because that's like the only way i can think it's one shotting people. of course, he could just be wrong and they were noobs, already low from goblin hits

[inner ember]

Sounds like someone thought they could hold W and get a free cleric kill and got punished

[stoic thorn]

loll

[stoic thorn]

but after they lock on and it starts up it's just free damage right? Or do they have to keep their crosshairs on you throughout the cast? Tbh Idk the details

[inner ember]

One they lock on they don't have to aim but it gets cancelled if they go outside of 4.5m

[stoic thorn]

Mmmm gotcha, honestly the cast is fast to the point where them walking out of range doesn't sound feasible.
haven't seen it cancelled yet.

[stoic thorn]

I guess they'd have to start it around the edge of the 4.5 meter for that to happen

[inner ember]

I'm interested in the gear to take it from 35dmg to 88 as that person said

[stoic thorn]

same I haven't seen it, but when I soloed in highroller I fought a 3 man. Killed the first guy with my spear then the other half of my health got deleted by the cleric using judgement on me lmao.

[inner ember]

I'm not saying 35 isn't a fair chunk of damage but honestly for a game that has barb one shots, ranger 100-0 combos, rogue doing hundreds of damage, judgement isn't exactly out of place

You'd need to judgement a barb 4 times over two minutes

[stoic thorn]

the thing is, all those other classes take some amount of skill to get those things off whether I like it or not. I hate getting bonked on the head by barb and oneshotted but then I also know If I dodged or played better footsies I could've avoided the damage. If i wack the rogue once or twice I kill him. If I juke the ranger and close the distance I can smack him. Cleric just does a naruto handsign on me and I drop dead I don't think that's honestly fair.

I don't mind the ability I just think it needs to be reworked in a way where counter options are available. Like... upping the cast time a little bit and if you take damage during the cast it's cancelled. That way the move becomes a lot more situational.

[inner ember]

But that's the point, you don't drop dead, you take ~35dmg. If a cleric invests enough to bump that then they're going to be squishy and/or slow. Nobody likes point and click but cleric needs some beefyness or they are dungeon fodder

[stray saffron]

i mean that's also the difference in gears and the way noob stomping is. sure that cleric is very geared but if they tried that with the same type of gear as they wear they can't do that

[stoic thorn]

that's still a big chunk of damage to give away for free with no counter options. If it was cancellable by taking damage then idk a teammate can throw a throwing axe while they're trying to cast it on you. Or you can change focus while they're casting to stop their cast by damaging them in the middle of it. The fact that someone was "oneshotting" people, regardless if they were basic kit should say enough.

And that also depends on what gear they roll o;

[inner ember]

You can get multiple hits in while they use the spell, that's the trade off. They're rubbing their hands together and mumbling while you can be killing them or backing up. I think if it has to be nerfed it makes more sense to have the spell fail if LOS is broken or make the cast time slightly longer

[gray vessel]

@inner ember They were talking in voip when I died, then when spectating it looked like he was probably talking in voip too. He was walking around with his fists out pretending to be friendly. Then he would swap to his legendary book (with like 3 more legendary items and many purples, all of which were stacked for magic damage) and cast the spell very quickly. With all of his will, the cast time was pretty short and the people legit dropped dead LOL. Unfortunately I didn't record a video, I assumed it was for their own yt video

[inner ember]

I'm sure it wasn't nice to die but any class with that level of gear can kill you without much trouble, it's not a cleric thing

[gray vessel]

Its not like it was high roller or anything, just a noob lobby in the caves and he was one-shotting everyone that i saw. Not a single person survived it

Idk it seemed like it was broken over powered, but alas is any set of god gear vs noobs haha

[inner ember]

Yeah if you look in the killfeed and see one player killing people constantly in a specific way, you need to adjust how you play, if you're an early victim, that sucks. It all balances out because if he misplays, goodbye to all the gear

[gray vessel]

lowk he looked pretty bad at the game. The cleric stepped on spikes once and got hit by a wall spike twice xD

[stoic thorn]

It’s around 2 seconds right now, upping it to 3 seconds wouldn’t be bad

[gray vessel]

I'm sure it doesn't take THAT much skill to be a cleric support for two good players and just grind 10 hours a day to get multiple god sets

[inner ember]

With this discussion I've seen people strongly advocate for significant nerfs on every class in the game

[gray vessel]

I think higher ttk games are more fun, so I want all classes dps nerfed tbh

[stray saffron]

next up they're going after holy purification...too strong against pve

[gray vessel]

Nobody enjoys dropping dead in 1 hit :D. Especially in a game where a rogue with unique dps gear can be FULL invisible and one tap most players who aren't very tanky

[inner ember]

Yeah and the heals, and the fact cleric can use decent armour. Plz delete class and try again

[stoic thorn]

I don’t think ttk is bad atm but but if it’s low ttk everything should take skill to get damage off otherwise something else needs to give if there’s no skill for free damage.

[stray saffron]

just wait till they get a druid that's cc and heals

[gray vessel]

I really hope skill trees pop off. They have so much potential to balance this game perfectly imo

[stray saffron]

or they'll end up making it worse, let's hope for making it better

[stoic thorn]

Yeeeeeeahhh it’s still in development but I know what I’m concerned with rn atm and it’s not much tbh. I’ll start actually complaining when it’s a full release because we don’t have the full product yet and there might be something we can build or stack to mitigate such things from happening.😂

[gray vessel]

@west cloak they already fixed protection potions. Wdym?

[gray vessel]

I'll say its not as bad as I claim. Especially with how easy it is to always have a prot potion active.

[stray saffron]

i do have one potential issue i can already see coming with the training...new players won't stand a chance because their initial stats are worse or they don't have access to perks because they have to train first

[inner ember]

This is a punishing game, there is no tutorial and the first mob you see can 2 shot you. People keep suggesting ways that dumb the game down, losing sight of core themes

[stoic thorn]

It’s supposed to be hard. People should go through the grinder of geared players and survive if they want to level up.

[inner ember]

Agreed

[stray saffron]

i mean i agree to some point, but not fully as it's just "suffer cause some people nolife"

[gray vessel]

Plus it won't be too hard to get a pretty decent set by looting and playing like a rat. New players will have come ups even if they come very late into the season with geared fights happening all the time

[inner ember]

You just described what happens in every PvP game

[stray saffron]

i mean that's why most games have competitive ranking and such too

[inner ember]

To reduce the game completely down, players options are:

1. Be a casual player and enjoy the game even if it means lower success and less loot
2. Invest time and thought into the game to be competitive, and get out an equivalent amount of success and loot

If it's #1, getting upset constantly about dying, how/why you died, game balance - all these things is a complete waste of time

[crimson flax]

it takes 2 hours to leel a class to 15. it really aint much of a nolife. it's not an MMO dude

[stray saffron]

increased exp for playtest, but if you start adding talent it might aswell be one

[gray vessel]

The only hard part is the 1st extract when you have dark grey weapons man, its ROUGH

[astral tartan]

play normals stay outta high roller

[stray saffron]

yeah cause people definitely didn't noob stomp in normal dungeons...high roller aint the issue there

[astral tartan]

normals had significantly less geared players. the vast majroity were naked/grey gear in my experience

[stray saffron]

in my experience it was the other way around as high rollers was a get gear quick method. besides final day that was

[hollow coyote]

you forget the frustrated yt noobs clickbaiters that went full legendaries in normals to kill gray players

[crimson flax]

ngl this seems like kind of a nonissue. you definitely get a lot of people who noobstomp normals like you said and you're always going to get overleveled or overgeared players for norms/low level lobbies/early game but the lack of incentives and additional floors is likely going to change that

[astral tartan]

id love to join a normal and have a stacked team in there.

[stoic thorn]

There were some people going into normals stacked af bcuz they knew people couldn’t kill them😂

[astral tartan]

come up runs are the best runs.

[hollow coyote]

they will play the worse build ever but show how they kill 6 players in a normal lobby and people will believe them

[crimson flax]

also noobstomps is gonna be something thats gonna occur a lot more when we have such massive amounts of new players moving through playtests anyway. it's likely something that'll become so much less of a problem

[stray saffron]

well yes but we're not talking about geared or not geared, we're talking if talent increases stats besides gear does then no lvl 1 will take out a lvl 20. that's why there was a suggestion that's not that bad to open up a noob dungeon with limited quality gear where they can learn the game till lvl 5 and then can't ever go in there again

[crimson flax]

thats pretty much what goblin caves is gonna be ngl

[astral tartan]

@fervent orbit

[stray saffron]

that's solo, that's another can of worms really

[stoic thorn]

Maybe a gear rating would be nice for que

[turbid ermine]

no

[stoic thorn]

Averaging out your parties gear rating compared to others and queuing them together

Idk just a thought

[turbid ermine]

That would be extremely boring and defeat the purpose of gear outside of fighting PvE

[crimson flax]

closest thing to the noob friendly/low level dungeon is likely gonna be b1, which i hear is gonna be as hard as b2 anyway. how they'll go about this overall is yet to be seen, but there will always be a divide with the fact this is an RPG and they want every player to delve

[astral tartan]

mmr would be nice

[real trellis]

We've discussed this ad nauseum and the conclusion is that it would spoil the point of the game

[stray saffron]

personally i'm not against gear score lobbies, like risk more to gain better instead of just strip down in the lobby and walk out full purple

[crimson flax]

and they already said they're not going MMR or gear score than god

[stoic thorn]

An mmr system would spoil the game?

[turbid ermine]

A gear mmr system would spoil the game, a skill mmr would be decent

[real trellis]

Where did I say that

That's a whole other discussion

[stoic thorn]

That’s what I was referring to but I didn’t describe it correctly 😩

[astral tartan]

the top 1% dont wanna play with gen pop just as much as gen pop dont wanna play with the top 1%. the people running norms in full legos are not high end players theyre just bullies.

[stray saffron]

but on what stats would it be based then? kills? that just means you have good gear most of the time currently

[turbid ermine]

Escape rate, otherwise mmr would just be unfair for some classes

[real trellis]

The only reasonable conclusion I can find to a skill mmr is, if you extract successfully, the next lobby is made up of people who also extracted their last match

[crimson flax]

"the top 1%" and "bullies" dont care about that. they just play the game lol

[stray saffron]

escape rates can be abused. they'd just have to go naked, die a few times and they're back in with the people that couldn't get out

[astral tartan]

i mean i hate normals. felt bad running them. plus if you're competing you're in high roller the vast majority of the time. not out here to take someones default gear.

[turbid ermine]

k/d can also be abused, one of the weaknesses of mmr

[crimson flax]

an exact reason why no good mmr/elo system is based off ingame stats like this but usually gameplay patterns and other measurements

[stray saffron]

yeah that's why when based on gear, then it's up to the skill of the user to live or die

[abstract swallow]

Once there's more economic limiters, people will self-segregate to more appropriate content.
Half the reason you see so many stompsquads in these playtests is because it's economically viable to do so. Even people that weren't trying to actively punch down would still clean LR lobbies for ante/consumable money because it was just that fast, safe, and efficient.

[stoic thorn]

Hunt showdown has an mmr system would you guys say that it ruins the game?

[turbid ermine]

But gear based mmr would remove any advantage gear has and make it quite pointless

[stoic thorn]

I gotcha now

[abstract swallow]

Hunt Showdown is a competitive FPS. It's a different ballpark entirely, and one much more appropriate to a more in-depth matchmaking system.

[stray saffron]

well it just means now your stuff is on the line

[crimson flax]

unless gear creates a ton of macro decisions or depth like everyone else says, it's going to completely ruin the point of loot. the entire point of a ton of this games' mechanics is that individuals are unequal

[slate tartan]

I am yet to see a kind of MMR that can't be exploited/abused in some way, it generally creates more problems than it solves, splits the queues even further and makes every match a custom lobby for anyone average or above, it's very hard to judge how things will play out from the playtests we had but I doubt there will be as many geared players in normal lobbies as there were

[hollow coyote]

the game is good like this, people will learn and lose gear fear eventually

[stray saffron]

skills are always unequal. currently it's just all stack damage and first to hit wins. there's no skill in having gear.

[turbid ermine]

That's why I advocate for damage scaling to be tunned down a bit, not too much tho so we still have big damage and explosive engagements

[crimson flax]

literally unless you're making a truly competitive ranked game that required a proper ladder, you simply don't need SBMM or MMR in general end of story. creates unnecessary, artifical segregation most players can't interact with, let alone understand

[astral tartan]

id like to see an mmr system like apex honestly. at a higher level only the final 2-3 teams gain mmr, placement + kills + assists. that way people dont rush out as fast as they can.

[stoic thorn]

Yaaaa idk if I’m entirely for a mmr system. D&D is competitive and skill based in its own right but now you’re less likely to go in more geared based on your mmr lol.

[abstract swallow]

I don't think anybody DOESN'T think scaling isn't complete whack at this point. We've got so many videos of wizards dropping 400 damage ignitions, Rogue onetap facestabs, 95% Fighters, etc.

[slate tartan]

Have to think about other regions too, not every region has NA numbers playing right now, MMR would do alot more harm than good at this point

[astral tartan]

why would you go less geared as you climb the ranks?

[crimson flax]

what are you even trying to say with this exactly? i really don't understand. like is problem the fact this game is built on asymmetrical design principles considering its a hardcore FPS rpg, or the fact people stack damage stats and kill lower-end players? and yes, hit confirms are almost always going to be what decides kills? the whole idea is to prevent and avoid taking damage while dealing as much as possible?

[stoic thorn]

The opposite

But at the same time why would I want to 😂

[abstract swallow]

The only argument you really need against MMR for DaD is that it runs contrary to the intended gameplay loop of lobbies reforming as you descend.
There's no feasible way to matchmake multiple, fragmented groups like that in any consistent way. Or at least any way that respects anyone's time.

[crimson flax]

i dont think damage scaling is as much a problem as much as the other stats are completely unequal. percents that aren't armor pen are all actually useless. all stats is a contender for other goat, but a lot of other attributes are simply considered trash and are just gold fodder. don't think the optio it to completely remove damage+ godrolls as much as it is to literally make some of these actually useful or just better. 1.4% interaction speed shouldnt be considered any kind of rare loot i can get off an elite enemy.

[hollow coyote]

as an ex predator in apex i dont like mmr system in this game since is not competitive, making me wait 30mins for a game wouldnt be fun

[crimson flax]

considering apex legends is a 20 hz p2p game that can't even have its servers stable for its grand finals, i don't think we should be taking any of its really poorly planned systems in consideration for

[abstract swallow]

damage stacking on gear is only one part of the problem tbh, it's the fact that you get to do it multiple ways and they all layer efficiently with eachother
but otherwise I totally agree, even if they completely remove +Damage/+All they're overshadowing a pretty lackluster cast of modifiers; at best all we're going to see is stacking something else take its place like %PDR and movespeed

[slate tartan]

Yeah, if I wanted to play DaD custom lobbies I'd play in the tourneys 😂

[hollow coyote]

game is good like this, if you want to see the competitive way of the game i would invite the top 10 players and make them get a team and do 1 lobby like that

[crimson flax]

^

same problem as the whole giganerf barb argument. very much ignores a lot of other problems

[turbid ermine]

what do u mean nerf barb, nerf champion

[stoic thorn]

I mean the leaderboards is pretty much a surrogate rank system. Would you want a ranked mode or no since we don’t want to split the pools any further.
Rn I think the ques are in a good spot but I wouldn’t mind seeing a more thoroughly thought through ranking system.

[astral tartan]

agreed, atleast brackets

[abstract swallow]

true, people calling to nerf barb directly completely miss the point of why he was good at all
the class was just in the right place and the right time for a damage stacking meta; his hard counters (the other two hardest scaling classes) got nerfed hard and Felling Axe 2.0 got dropped into his lap

[turbid ermine]

brackets would avoid the whole HR issue of been boosted by newer players into the leaderboards

[abstract swallow]

there's nothing game-breaking about him (sans AxeSpec Francs), he just has the most toys for scaling and he's convenient to buff

[turbid ermine]

Francisca gives me nightmares

[astral tartan]

i dont mind a little wait, spend 2-10 mins in between games managing the tiny ass stash anyways.

[turbid ermine]

Could jusr chill in the tavern if they add sitting, tavern brawling or some mini games or test dummy damage

[abstract swallow]

I honestly fear for Francs, they already feel like complete ass to throw and they're 100% going to eat a nerf for AxeSpec Barb's sins
there's no way they're letting those puppies out unharmed, not after #1 and #2 made such a big show of flexing them by the bagfull

[inner ember]

I won't miss them

[stoic thorn]

lol

[astral tartan]

barb doesnt need nerfed horseman and franny needs nerfed. 1h barb outtrades every other melee currently unless the gear difference is massive. buffs or no buffs

[inner ember]

Can win high tier pvp without ever pulling out a (main) weapon, kite > throw > repeat

[abstract swallow]

more of a damage scaling and AxeSpec problem than the axes themselves
I love utility items but even I think chunking someone for 60 damage to the chest with shop grey francs is too much

throwing weapons are meant to be control options and punishes, not something that out-trades actual weapons

[astral tartan]

poke damage and clean up, not 2 tapping full health players

[stoic thorn]

What do you guys think about purchasable stash tabs, and if they were added at what cost should they be? Or should they be found as unique items within the dungeon?

[inner ember]

Add a page for gold and that's it IMO

[stoic thorn]

1k gold?

[inner ember]

Gold, pots, and lockpicks, a page for that stuff and the current page for everything else

[stoic thorn]

3k?

I feel like the pages should be for anything and everything just you decide how you want to manage your stashes

[inner ember]

That's fine too, it should still be heavily limited. Wouldn't go above double what we had in the past

[stoic thorn]

It should be limited by cost

I say 5k gold to get an extra stash and a max of 3 on 1 character

Or 5k for the first extra stash and 10k for the second

[rocky oar]

Chump money

[abstract swallow]

Quest unlocks for unique stash tabs, and they should all be utility-based. Me and my friends have talked a ton about this, and what you could add without ruining the limited storage design.
Non-tradeable gold stash (for fees and shit). Medicine chest (for meds). Toolbox (for utility items). Quest item trunk (obvious). A small (4x3) jewelry box.

Honestly just give me a gold box I could fund so I don't have an endless cycle of 3~4 empty money bags in the top left of my stash every time I run HR or trade.

[stoic thorn]

That’s not bad as well. I think we can all agree that it would be nice to have more storage options.

[inner ember]

Based on their takes on similar issues I find it highly unlikely they'll make the stash that complex, they want to keep trade chat a whirlwind of text, I imagine they want a classic, old school everything-together stash

Quality of life storage options are much more likely than a stash overhaul

[stoic thorn]

That’s how I want it honestly. Just keep it simple but make it so that I can name my extra stashes.

[inner ember]

People have already been making mule characters, IMO that should be addressed before any stash changes happen

[abstract swallow]

I'd be happy if it stayed exactly how it is, those containers would just be mild QoL additions.
I can run a lean kit, the small stash size does a great job of urging you to use-it-or-lose-it

[abstract swallow]

this is another reason you should only be able to trade found-in-raid items, there's so many price flippers/tradebots/mules already

"yes, of course, this level 5 ranger definitely found multiple purple Felling Axes already"

[inner ember]

Nah I think the trading nonsense is fine, I did it a bunch. Once the game is actually released and prices settle, there won't be as many crazy quicksells or giveaways. Mules are just characters made to shuffle gear between end-game players

[abstract swallow]

I understand what a Mule is, it's just a convenient way to nix them while stuffing it to RMT
I cannot tell you how badly I need the satisfaction of stumbling across some dude getting his 20$ suit of armor dropped for him by Chang in his spawn and gutting him for it before reporting him

[inner ember]

Yeah that's true, I suppose they're still taking items in and risking them

I'm going to miss the trading shenanigans on an almost-over playtest

[abstract swallow]

watching people desperately quickbuy/quicksell fortunes of candy on the last day was an experience

[stoic thorn]

People hold on to all of that as if they’re going to keep it

[inner ember]

The last day of the playtest I had all my gold on my character and didn't swap it off before starting a run, died

Then before the day ended I made 8k gold to buy a full ruby kit just from candy trading and selling 2 purples for ridiculous prices

[hard canopy]

I have a suggestion regarding consumables and expanding professions. You can add other professions to the game, such as a tailor,alchemist,blacksmith, etc. Make fabrics knocked out of mobs, herbs growing everywhere (or in special conditions), etc. In order for the players to control the consumables market themselves and investing in the risk of mining, they could get a profit not only from destroying each other. On top of that, make a separate rate of extraction of these resources, since I think it is very illogical that a Rogue extracts ore faster than a barbarian. In general, I imagine this as a stat that grows as the skill is used, which will spur you to invest more time and skill in a certain gameplay.

[turbid ermine]

too complex

[astral tartan]

rmt is inevitable they dont need to scuff their game like tarkov.

[mental valley]

Ya'know. Excellent idea. Just one minor problem with that.

[astral tartan]

#cleric message

[hard canopy]

It doesn't seem to me that it's not so difficult to implement crafting in the form in which it is now, simply by adding recipes (it will still need to be balanced in the future). It is more difficult to scatter resources here, I agree. But let's say there are no lockpicks on the market right now. And trading at the expense of a permanent fine of 15 gold does not make it possible to buy a little from those who want to sell 1-3 lockpicks . Also, it is not always possible to buy consumables(Traps(Archer)) from merchants, and these are things that generally determine the class, which slows down my ability to play this class as intended and fill the stash with gray items if they are on sale from the merchant.

[heavy socket]

#d-and-d-suggestions message
Fixed wrong wording in this suggest.
error:"I personally don't think the アックス=axe notation is necessary,..."
correct:"I personally think the アックス=axe notation is not necessary,..."

This suggest uses a translator, so there may be other strange notations. We apologize.

[smoky yoke]

No problem, you can send it again with the correct edit
also in #1026916693806686208 if you want, you can assign yourself the 🇯🇵 role to have access to the Japanese chat #japanese-チャット

[hard canopy]

One more suggestion. So that items that are sold to merchants do not disappear, but are available for purchase by all players. Also set up filters for searching with merchants (Type, rarity). Everything will be created and brought by the players and it will be immediately clear which things are used and which are not. If there is a big load on the game, then wipe the assortment during the replenishment of the merchant.

[heavy socket]

ok arigato gozaimasu 🙂

[inner ember]

A lot of other games do this, I like the idea that until you start a new run/their shop refreshes you can buy back something you sold them. Hasn't happened to me yet but I can totally see someone selling an item accidentally

[white cliff]

That would be an insane amount of items inside one trader, and usually people vendor to AI if it’s not worth the hassle of selling in the trading channel. So regardless I don’t see the point?

[peak ermine]

Wizards need the .44 magnum spell and for some reason people disagree. Like give one good reason why wizards shouldn’t have it.

[atomic mountain]

Leaving behind trash loot is part of the gear churn cycle

[peak ermine]

I think we should be able to sell our starting gear. Just enough that we could swap out for something else. At the same tier.

[slate tartan]

then people would just abuse it like they did when you could put starter gear in your stash

[pliant merlin]

how did people abuse being able to put starter gear in their stash? i wasn’t around for that :0

[slate tartan]

put everything in their stash, load into lobby, leave straight away which counts as a death, rinse and repeat

[pliant merlin]

but why? the starter gear isn’t worth anything and you get it for free when you die :c

[slate tartan]

For classes like a ranger with traps/campfire, or a cleric with a bandage it was worth it to some, alot did it for free ranger traps

[pliant merlin]

ahhh i forgot about the traps and campfires! thank you c:

[atomic mountain]

You cannot store starter utility items in the stash, he's trolling you

[pliant merlin]

even before they changed it? i wasn’t planning to do it myself, i was just curious what the abuse cases were that caused them to change it in the first place :c

[slate tartan]

They changed it for the last playtest, you could before that lol

[atomic mountain]

I was not aware because I am a PT4 noob, I apologize and you may hit me

[slate tartan]

Check yourself before you wreck yourself homie

[atomic mountain]

Typical Wreckfest player response

[slate tartan]

Nah just an ice cube enjoyer

[atomic mountain]

The GOAT (didn't he date Mariah Carey?)

[slate tartan]

Who knows/cares

[atomic mountain]

You're right, I hope they're both dead now

[graceful frost]

infinite campfires bear traps, bandages, shield pots, health pots, all the goodies. I myself was an abuser, I mass got bandages using a macro and sold them on the trading post for 1000's of gold lol

[white cliff]

Sounds like way too much work, for the effort put in.

Who was buying gray bandages and campfires for slightly less gold then you could buy them for in the shop?

[tawny lagoon]

Protection pots and traps were the real problem I think

super useful no matter the quality, very limited number of them on the merchants

[atomic mountain]

Just buy them every chance you get and save some in stash, gg ez

[astral tartan]

wait you killed yourself over and over to stack 1 grey bandaid at a time?

[graceful frost]

many many people. I got a bandage every like 10 seconds maybe even faster, and has deals and they were like 2-3 gold per for 8 heal bandages when shop is 5 gold for 10 heal. many people bought them, hence making 1000's of gold from afk farming then a bit of time selling

[graceful frost]

also didn't do campfires were not efficient for space taken up,

[astral tartan]

gen pop money making methods do be wild

[graceful frost]

I made a ton of money in dungeon still though. Just afk'd that cause why not lol

[astral tartan]

i mean fair, its just crazy to me people buy grey bandaids in bulk lmao

[graceful frost]

it was a fire deal, like 2 gold per bandage when bought in bulk, spending 3 less gold for 2 less heal had a lot of casuals buying

[astral tartan]

we're trying to recruit a 4th man who loves playing the market to just sit in discord with our 3 stack and sell everything we come out with

50/50 split hit my dms !

[graceful frost]

sounds like playing the stock market without actually making money

[astral tartan]

yeah we need a broker

[graceful frost]

who would ever do that

[astral tartan]

we got a few offers so far actually. some people love flipping markets in games idk. need someone who we dont mind sitting in discord with us though

[graceful frost]

they arent even playing the game

sounds like somethin you would get payed for lmao, sounds like a job

[astral tartan]

not playing how you and i would prefer to atleast. to each their own tho!

[graceful frost]

my friend that isn't playin

thats something you put on your job application. Proffesional dark and darker stock broker. honestly sounds like a fiver add

[astral tartan]

lmao ya. itll probably end up being a friend that doesnt play as much but wants to watch the streams in disc.

if anything free entertainment watching 3 top 10 players

[atomic mountain]

Who's talking shit about me being a shill for my Rank 1 players

[amber solstice]

I find it funny they did all utility items beside torches so you can still go in with 100 free torches. Lol

[timber valve]

I used to have personal traders in my hardcore poe era all the time xD

With hardcore i mean softcore but 20/7 on release xD

[neat horizon]

#d-and-d-suggestions message why did people downvote so much

[slate tartan]

There's already too much decent loot, don't need more, needs to be harder to get geared, not easier

[slow lily]

what happens if a suggestion is green and 100% it says does that mean its approved?

does that mean it will be implemented in the game?

[faint dirge]

It has cool color, thats about it

[twin tinsel]

it would just ruin the game

[tight gale]

insanely powerful

and kinda removes the point of farming hard bosses and hard stuff instead you would just farm gray and green and stuff until you have a legendary / unique item

[twin tinsel]

jep

[ebon idol]

God, I love data.

[tacit blade]

Would ruin the economy

[rough gorge]

honestly thought wall spikes would have a higher % kill ratio

[junior hawk]

Not only would it ruin the economy, but it would literly make legendary items extremely easy.
Just combine 2 trash epics into a good legendary.
We don't need more ways to gain good items

[ebon idol]

1/3 of all games being played in solo games is pretty surprising. I would have expected it to be lower.

[rough gorge]

we lack friends

[white cliff]

Id need to see a data breakdown on that, is that individual plays? People like playing the new thing, I want active player comparison to trios. I was really hoping it wasn’t warranted but 30% a good amount.

[ebon idol]

The data suggests that is it % of games played. So whenever a lobby starts the map is tracked. So 30% of all games that took place started in the goblin caves.

[neat horizon]

I hope they buff caltroops

[ebon idol]

Due to the data you can really see the "meta". Interesting that rangers have a 50%50 split on Tracking vs Kinestesia

[inner thorn]

*most used, not most effective. they can all be wrong

[next valley]

guns would add a real level of skill to dark and darker never seen before

[inner thorn]

[lofty quarry]

An onager or a cannon

[ebon idol]

Well yes, we don't know what is most efficient, and I didn't claim that. If there was a most efficient, I don't think there would be a 50%50 split.

[inner thorn]

meta is acronim for "most efficient", sorry to bother

[smoky gale]

There aren't really that many of them on the maps compared to the other ways you can die. I think if you presented it as a ratio of number of encounters that are lethal it might be higher. But obviously skeleton footmen are going to have a very high % of total kills simply due to how many there are for example. And although it's very difficult to gather data on, if we open it up to look at the ratio of times that players were hit by wall spikes vs avoiding them (removing the lethal aspect) I would suspect that it would be much higher.

[uneven fog]

why are people talking in here if the game isnt even up and running

[inner thorn]

well spike wall killing player who pvp to 1 hp counts as spike kill and vice versa

[ripe glade]

I think a really quirky twist to the game like building walls would really be a game changing mechanic and maybe adding a cool rocket launcher for the ranger class only and maybe some guns too but for the ranger class only of course because why would any other class be able to equip any guns that's just silly lets be real here guys

[inner thorn]

we want a game to be great when its ready

[smoky gale]

True, but that's the same with everything - skellies, floor spikes, etc.

[ebon idol]

Not a bother. Meta can mean a lot of things depending on usage and that makes it confusing. Most used and most efficient is just very often the same thing.

[rough gorge]

we talk in here about ideas or go through the suggestions people post 1 channel above this one. mostly to debate why this certain thing would be unneeded or why its flawed

[next valley]

me too i think that adding weapons to the ranger would balance the ranger with how the current state of the game is, the ranger needs some type of weapon like a m16 or a remington shotgun to counter classes like rogue

[lofty quarry]

How about a huge flying crow that drops us from the sky

[ripe glade]

yes also increase the amount of players per match to 100 because 16 people is just too easy for a player of my caliber

[ripe glade]

yea and also remove all of rogues silly little daggers and instead give them something more like a pencil because lets be honest rogue is a LITTLE too broken lets be real here guys

[faint dirge]

The whole sentence is wrong

[pallid sleet]

Dookie brings up some good points tbqh

[wanton lintel]

Hahaha I'm having a field day. The statistics posted in the dev announcements verify gear inflation acting exactly as I predicted: https://imgur.com/a/GFu0gnE

[pallid sleet]

Nice, yeah, gear should naturally inflate, seems like common sense

[wanton lintel]

You would think so... lmao

a few others here might find it a little more counterintuitive for some reason

[white cliff]

I’d be interesting in seeing if the rate loot selling values are in any way related to a small group of players with golden keys.

Also yeah, lmao.

[pallid sleet]

They're silly billies in that case, more loot will leave dungeons over time, it just makes sense lmao

By the end of the last PT I was having trouble selling +all attributes gear, cause there was just so much of it going around, especially in barb/fighter auction houses, cause of the sheer amount of players

[lethal palm]

Can we add grades of torches pls each grade higher is gonna be brighter and deal more damage on hit

[wanton lintel]

yeah that's a really good question. Doing an analysis on the proportion of sellers would reveal some interesting statistics... especially as it relates to a gold inequalities and such.

Also do a check to see how many "market makers" there are - i.e. people who play market for at least 50% of the game or more and basically just flip items and collect items.

@pallid sleet they believed that items are lost as fast as they're gained so therefore no gear inflation would ever happen, and therefore an AH system would never affect gear inflation anyways. I tried to use an analogy where the market is an initially empty bag that slowly fills up as it is also slowly emptied, but it didn't click.

@lethal palm I actually like that idea.

[lethal palm]

Unique torch just be like flashbang

[lofty quarry]

<@&1019888848773328936> there is a bot in #1048762118255673428

[wanton lintel]

<@&1019888848773328936> <@&988703997378584596> What he said ^

[next valley]

true and i think the barbarian should have his axe removed and be reduced to something like a ruler stick because in all honesty he is just too broken!

[wanton lintel]

Most-used given infinite resources and with the primary objective of winning (PvP is usually the win objective) --> META

Most-used given an amount of resources --> META with scalable resource limitations. There's a mathy way to write this but it involves integral calculus and/or differential equations.

Most-played --> Whatever captures user base's interests the most.

[rocky oar]

There is no way in hell yall can keep complaining about Wizards after looking at the kill count vs. play count per class

[maiden drift]

Wizard has the highest skill ceiling imo

[mossy plank]

Wizard is too hard for my feeble brain

[dull ivy]

I haven't had too many issues with Wizards myself, but saying they don't have the highest kills doesn't mean they aren't very/more powerful.
(it is the easiest metric to look at quickly tho)

...but maybe that view is expedited by someone who dares to hope that games (at least the solo maps) have to be everyone being hostile, and could instead be something more than "see person, murder person".

[mossy plank]

Buff rogue yes look at that play/kill metric

[next valley]

wizard is broken and needs to be removed from the game instantly this game should be ranger only

[rocky oar]

What's funny is that the chart pretty much shows that every class has more kills than Wiz except maybe Cleric if we did the math to show for player diff

[mossy plank]

Don't just look at sheer numbers, there's also the ratio of played/kills

[glacial sphinx]

Linsung did, its correct

[abstract swallow]

Wizard itself is in a fine spot, the only thing that needs tuning is the buffs. Everything else is just being super scaling-dependent in a meta that's all about universal damage-stacking.

[glacial sphinx]

Its in a pretty bad spot except when extremely geared, at which point it becomes a bit overpowered.

[ripe glade]

beautiful facts someone hire this handsome probably fat person

[rocky oar]

The issue with those stats is that most of the worse players I have ever seen are all Wizards and once you start going into HR, it was super rare you saw Wizards in HR which usually shows that Wizard players were not confident in playing their class well enough to go into HR. The other issue was that this PT Wizards were essentially just a freaking support class for anyone going tryhard on leaderboard.

[next valley]

well i actually have a six pack oily abs

[ripe glade]

oily from all the chic fil a you eat

[next valley]

oily because i’m sexy

[amber solstice]

Wizard is underplayed because of the unconventional pie wheel spell implementation, having the least room for error with effective health/healing, and a lot of gameplay being forced into buffs only while having melee teammates(which also leads to them being more of a solo class and team killer). Power level has nothing to do with it. Them being 1st at 50% of the top 10 killer outlaws, 2nd at 27.5% of the top 200 killer outlaws, 1st at median killer outlaws, 2nd at average killer outlaws, and 1st at killer outlaws with every single level of outlier removal(removing the X or % top and bottom players from the list) while having the lowest % played demonstrates their power level. I'm not the biggest fan of removing all high roller statistics in favor of adding top 200 only, especially when the majority of informative statistics aren't provided.

[abstract swallow]

good post
also big agree that only top 200 stats are basically useless other than showing PART of a successful streammonster comp

[sudden glacier]

Who could have guessed that barbarians got the highest kill count even with less total hours, surely they arent broken

Wizard are broken but only if you are god at the game, I think they are balanced, they just need to nerf the buffs applied to teammates cause making a barbarian or fighter super fast, invisible and super strong isn't fair

[abstract swallow]

both frontliners had excellent killcounts, they're the most likely to score the killing blow in 9 out of 10 scenarios

[amber solstice]

That doesn't even include how features like Killing Blows being the only PvP Leaderboard categories skews categories, especially at the higher end, like Top 200. Having only one comp that excels at funneling all kills to one person basically makes it the only choice for chasing that category and is misrepresented as the "best PvP comp" rather than the "best Killing Blow Leaderboard Chasing comp". Top 2 outliers Narikk and InsaneZeno increase the top 200 barb averages by over 26%. The removal of the total highroller counts for Leaderboard categories that they provided in previous playtests also contribute to this misrepresentation, as does increasing playerbases reducing the representation that the top 200 provides.

[sudden glacier]

they should nerf buffs applied to others by some % otherwise people would still abuse the cleric,wiz,barb comp or cleric,wiz,fighter almost imposible to win with other comps

[abstract swallow]

the buffs just need a mild downside like the versions of the skills they're mimicing (0 PR invis, fatigue after haste, etc)

[sour jacinth]

Why was my suggestion immediately deleted

[amber solstice]

I'm all for nerfing buffs applied to others. Although I think the better way would to be not allowing at least speed buffs to stack, you simply get whatever the highest speed buff that you currently have available. That prevents the 200mph buff ball barb from just being the flash chopping down a forest but still allows it to be used when personals are down for moderate power and to encourage buffing your whole team and to benefit buffing at the appropriate times.

It also helps balance buff stacking with future additions, say if we ever get to the point where 2 other classes have non-self only speed buffs and stacking 4+ speed buffs, however short they overlap.

[quick blade]

That's not abused that's just meta party composition, and it's not the only meta comp, it's just the most common.

[sudden glacier]

I mean not by average players but for people that want to be at the top, they just do that that is how the top 2 barbarians got that many kills, it is super broken

1 Killer Outlaw InsaneZeno Barbarian 2611
2 Killer Outlaw Narikk Barbarian 2411
3 Killer Outlaw KenKnobiTV Wizard 1149
4 Killer Outlaw vApolloDDTTV Wizard 1046
5 Killer Outlaw Depress Rogue 987

also the franciscas axe helped the barbs to get that many kills cause they just spammed them with axe specialization dealing ridiculous amount of damage killing most players with 2 or 3 axes

[gloomy saffron]

didnt know axe spec counted toward throwing axes

[sturdy anchor]

That's not the whole story, Barbs are just really good at kill securing, dealing the most damage per attack minus maybe a wizard in the game. with haste downright train-like. Barb itself is not broken, just overtuned, with teamplay, there you approach broken gameplay

[white cliff]

Oh I didn’t even notice that Narrik got beat out on the last day. Damn.

[amber solstice]

Narikk quit like a day or two early.

[white cliff]

He was hard leading for a while.

But anyways, the kills could just be an indication of play time and not class balance.

[sudden glacier]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY8ebTYKWug watch this video, that is how they got so many kills

[white cliff]

I’d love a comparison in playtime between all top100 killer outlaws.

[stoic thorn]

the teamplay needs to be more thought through if that's the case

[abstract swallow]

they just need to move to a killpoint system like literally any multiplayer game that isn't CoD has had for the past 15 years

the leaderboard data is basically useless to the community rn as anything more than a list of streamer advertisements

[sturdy anchor]

There will always be a difference in strength vs player skill. "It is not about noobs beating the pros, its about unlocking fun at all levels of play." is a core design philosophy that I agree with. Maybe a nerf to speed is king though, that is something that is annoying.

[amber solstice]

The data they provided was probably one of the most easily miscontrued and misrepresentable sub sets of data they could have provided. And it's odd because they provided other sub sets in previous playtest infographics but decided not to that would be helpful information. Sub sets like per game averages, team comp information, other pvp statistics, what they show is literally the tip of the iceberg.

[white cliff]

I guess they didn’t want to give the community every single piece of data, which is strange because they’re sharing so much.

[stoic thorn]

I concur, it's just I believe there should be balance across the board among all skill levels. Game balance should be paramount regardless of what skill level you are or not. If we see something that's gimmicky, we should call it out.

Like the speed issue that everyone is talking about.

[amber solstice]

I hope that what they release in the infographic is not the only information they find relevant or worth tracking or specifically what they were looking at for that playtest and is more of just "here a few general numbers for you all to look at." Being able to see what they were focused on tracking would be amazing, as would much broader and in depth data.

[sturdy anchor]

The speed issue is my paramount concern, but nerfing speed as a whole is a terrible idea, that is why I think defense as well as time to kill needs to be altered as a whole. Make speed a thing that can be tapped into, not required.

[abstract swallow]

honestly they're probably really frustrated with their data metrics right now since basically the entire game is warped around 3 things (movespeed/naked meta, damage stacking, gear scaling)
anything that singles out those three issues is missing or replaced compared to the PT3's datasets

basically all we got out of these graphs was
"over 80% of runs are done in at least some brown gear"
"players gravitate towards ranger/fighter for their base kits"
"player success is stacked towards high-rarity weapons"

[amber solstice]

TTK in this game is incredibly high compared to other games if you start the timer from when you are first made aware of the other person. Most people complaining about low TTK consider it starting from the first time you get hit in the head by a felling axe and don't consider any of the gameplay to get to that point.

[stoic thorn]

compared to apex no 😂

[sturdy anchor]

Via my definition, TTK starts when the first person gets/is almost hit, or the first ability or spell is used to progress the fight into happening. If we are to consider the whole location, and knowledge part of DAD then of course it slows down, but by pure definition that (to me) is not the case.

[white cliff]

Depends on gear quality, there’s certainly a variance in ttk across modes and gear levels, which also would have been interesting data to see.

[lusty forge]

When you create a new character add a “this character is left handed” option causing them to simply be left handed and reversing how they will ultimately hold weapons torches and interact. I’m not sure what cons this could add though I’ll admit. ?

[stoic thorn]

TTK in this game compared to other games is low. In other games you can disengage then reengage for multiple fights with the same party. If you get close up on another team in this game someone is usually dying within the first couple of seconds. If people can get oneshotted in a game frequently TTK is usually low lol.

[abstract swallow]

very silly take, I like it
this game has 2 minute+ TTK because I have enhanced hearing on my ranger

[white cliff]

The ability to run away slows that too. And then throwing axes decreases that!

[stoic thorn]

It's all situational

It only seems long because we're all playing footsies with each other not trying to get oneshotted lmao

[abstract swallow]

TTK starts at interaction, and that's a blurry line to draw
you can pregame with buffs
you can engage in footsies and positioning
you can whiff attacks and force misplays (or start charging a spell)
and then you can finally hit the dude (and oneshot him lmao)
pretty much nowhere 'good' to draw the line

[stoic thorn]

I'd say it's middleground since it's all situational. I've had really long fights but I've also had really short ones.

[abstract swallow]

the only way I'd be able to judge TTK at all is the TTK on/after a SUCCESSFUL interaction
which is hilariously short right now, usually under a second/instant for most classes
but it doesn't mean anything because that's just one part of an actual fight

[sturdy anchor]

Realistic, but unengaging, also furthers the need for speed problem if regardless of equipment you die in one hit, so just get a better weapon, no need to get any armor, or find yourself a haste laying around.

[wanton lintel]

chaos of the dungeons makes true TTK difficult to calculate. You can ambush, environment plays a role, do misses count? what about ducking? running? too many factors.

I count TTK only in terms of theoretically perfect outcome (like attacking training dummy), and everything else is chaos.

[abstract swallow]

movement speed + % phys resist is the next meta unless they bother to overhaul how items generate (probably not gonna happen until AT LEAST early access), the goal at the highest level is to just never get hit and have enough defenses to survive the first hit
flat -MS on armor is an obvious bandaid solution for weight/encumbrance not being in the game yet, which is also completely screwing armor balance on top of the bad scaling

[amber solstice]

Exactly. I'm not saying one version of TTK is correct. I'm saying there is plenty of interpretation made and to be made by showing the two extremes. On top of all that the majority of fights are just not fair. There are near infinite variables within the dungeon to contend with. TTK if someone is afk is super low, sure. But for reasonably skilled players, there's so many different ways to extend or avoid it. Almost all really short fights you either have an incredible advantage or a huge amount of luck.

Maybe you only play starter gear, are low skill, and solo so you are basically at every possible disadvantage. TTK of your enemies will be at its highest and TTK of you is going to be at the lowest. The opposite is true for geared and skilled trios. If your goal in the game is to simply not die to PvP, I bet that effects how long it takes to kill you when compared to trying to slay the lobby. There are very few deaths where if you took advantage of every single resource you had available to you that you die instantly. A lot of it is not paying attention, not being prepared, putting yourself in dangerous places. The game doesn't just spawn barbarians behind you.

[abstract swallow]

I agree with almost everything except that very last bit
I have, in fact, been the barbarian spawned behind someone on several occasions (pre-patch goblin caves was a silly place)

[amber solstice]

I hate that one spawn in goblin caves that can have a goblin aggro'd on you that still existed on the last day. lol

[carmine current]

what are your alls thoughts on this change
#d-and-d-suggestions message

i think that it doesnt make the fighter overly fast since it only gives them bonus movement speed when they are at their slowest. so it wouldnt make them any faster trying to catch someone who puts away their weapon and runs. since normally they would have to do the same or at least equip throwables (which already have such a low ms penalty that it wouldnt matter)

[rancid pebble]

this was a while ago but damn is that succinct

[amber solstice]

That's a huge buff to weapons for fighters and even incentivizes faster and lighter armor and heavier weapons. If the scaling is off, adjust the scaling.

[carmine current]

the scaling of the current % isnt the problem. the problem is that only while wearing plate armor do you have enough of a decrease in movement speed to warrent picking it up. Though even then its not that much since its the equivalent in full plate armor of 3% movement speed, while a fighter by wearing that armor is reducing it by around 15% total. that being said fighters in light armor dont have really any perks to take other then combo attack or projectile resistance. since defense expert gives such a low amount of armor if you are wearing leather that it will never make a difference, swift also gives to low a bonus to make a difference, dual wield would be specific to those that use it, weapon mastery is for those that want to use bows. after that every other option is about the same as not taking a perk at all.

[abstract swallow]

the idea itself is fine, but you're trying to balance/tweak around a system that doesn't actually exist
gear speed penalties are just a shorthand for a weight/equipload mechanic that isn't implemented, so literally all your suggestion does is just straight-buff the naked meta while further focusing on MS as a godstat

[amber solstice]

The issue is the intended use of the perk. They could add the weapon version to be used for the purpose yours would change. And it seems like your issue is strength of the perk. They could easily have it add more Ms than is removed from wearing plate and then it would be insane. I think fighters intentionally have weak perks. If they do anything better than what another classes specialty is, theres no reason play that other class anymore.

[carmine current]

i can see that for starter gear, since there is no point in wearing anything below green for non boots or gloves. however that isnt the "meta" overall in the game. in highrollers when people are bringing in gear you will see that almost never unless the player is doing a zero to hero run. since the meta is getting specific stats on gear, not ignoring gear all together.

[carmine current]

currently other then going for a tank build there is no point in playing fighter. since other classes do every aspect (even every aspect overall) better. the only thing fighters have going for them is their chest piece and defense perks in plate. if you arent doing plate, then you might as well just say dont play the class, which is dumb. especially since the fighter doesnt even have 3 perks to take while wearing leather armor. the point of the game being an rpg is that you have options. well currently fighter not only doesnt have options, he doesnt even have enough options to even think about putting in, when you are going for a light armor build.

[neat horizon]

any suggestions on how caltroops could be buffed?

[abstract swallow]

make it a utility item, unless it is hilariously overpowered it will never be worth dropping a primary DPS ability for

[carmine current]

i think they could make them refreshable at campfire or make it so that they can be stepped on mulitple times before disappearing. they are already good utility wise. their damage is low, but its only low if you arent stacking addtional physical damage on your gear.

[amber solstice]

I didn't say not to play fighter, I said if fighter does anything better than what is a classes specialization/strength, there's no reason to play the other class because of all the additional utility they get from being a jack of all trades and master of none while they actually do have tank mastery, at least currently. You want fighters to be faster in tank gear via a buff that buffs other aspects that aren't being faster in tank gear. Which is easily adjustable from the current 3% benefit but that isn't good enough for you even though it solves your proposed suggestion. Making fighters significantly stronger as melee under the guise of tanks are too slow is just bad.

[carmine current]

it depends. i had a friend go for a weird jank build that used them, while wearing additional physical damage in every slot. he went to the center of the map and would put like 3-4 of them down in an enterance. then would just wait for someone to come into the room and they would basically die instantly from stepping on the traps. though after 1 person steps on them they are gone, so it wasnt that great. but it was really funny to see

[carmine current]

no your not understanding. im saying that to have build diversity a fighter shouldnt have to go for only plate. though if you want to run leather or other light armors, you literally dont have the options in perks. that would give you 1 extra perk that actaully benefits you, and buffs tanks as well, but tanks were already pretty underwhelming without having gg gear to begin with. also fighters currently aren't even much of a jack of all trades. they cant even use magic and have the lowest pool of useable default stat points becuase of their 15 knowledge. i think its better put as saying they are a tank class that can use any weapon. since that is a better descriptor of how the class actually functions.

[amber solstice]

Why not just make all perks be blanket buffs to every single possible playstyle at that point? Perks are supposed to benefit one particular style of play. Adding new perks that benefit non tank fighters, sure. Changing the one that is intended to benefit tanks to be blanket good for everyone, nah.

And it applying to everyone, including weapons means you'd probably have to scale it down and it will nerf the fighters that wear all plate.

[carmine current]

no it would still buff them since they also hold weapons. do they not?

[abstract swallow]

"im saying that to have build diversity a fighter shouldnt have to go for only plate."
this is literally what I warned you about when I first replied to you
you're trying to enable a system that wasn't meant to work in the first place, MS penalties are just a design bandaid for a lack of encumbrance mechanics
there is no gear or option variety here because it's literally not implemented in the game yet, you're trying to make variety and balance out of a ghost that was never intended to support those things

[amber solstice]

Weapons have the largest ms penalty of any piece of gear in the game in most cases. And every single fighter uses them. Reducing the penalty of it disproportionally helps the lighter faster fighter more than it does the tank fighter.

[carmine current]

its quite literally the opposite. if its applying 20% reduced penalty and you have a weapon that gives -50 ms, then they get 10 ms. if the other character is using the exact same weapon, then its also 10 ms. though a lighter armor fighter would then get a fraction of the benefit from armor, as opposed to the full tank fighter. so its quite literally that it would be a buff to both. a buff to add a useable perk for light armor fighters, and a buff giving the exact same amount to full plate fighters.

[amber solstice]

I'm not saying disproportionately in the amount of MS gained, but the advantage of being faster in general.

[white cliff]

Holy crap have we been on the same topic since 2:30

[carmine current]

at that point your just arguing that being in lighter armor giving less ms penalty is better then being in heavy armor. which isnt the case in every situation. there are plenty of times that being tankier in general is going to be better in general. there are also times being lighter armor is better in general. all im saying is that fighter needs either new perks, or changes to existing perks. since as i mentioned they dont have enough perks to even get 3 for a non tank build. of which i mentioned a suggested change for swift to make it viable for non tank builds

[lusty wren]

Very rarely in DaD as a fighter does tank over speed work IMO

Defensive gear is laughable in this game. Full purple plate fighers getting one tapped by a barb 😄

I think starter gear TTK is great, but it needs to be adjusted as it goes up the ladder

high end weapons vs high end armor should be relative to starter gear TTK

[carmine current]

im saying that there are times for both can be better then each other. for instance you can go the full tank build with phys damage reduction gear and afk for a min or 2 while a barb is hitting you, to come back and still be over half hp. same goes for ranger if not even more, since they are reduced even further with projectile damage reduction. however there are counters to that type of build barb can take reckless attack or rogues can take weakpoint attack. heaven forbid you get hit by magic otherwise you just drop. all im getting at is it depends in any of the counter examples i mentioned it would be better to just be in light armor. against someone that has no way to pen it, then full tank is by far the best option.

[lusty wren]

LOL i did plenty of tank build fighters never could I go "afk" and let a barb hit me 😄 The amount of times I was in full purple plate and got one shot by a barb is nuts

[amber solstice]

Yeah, I've said new perks, not buff existing ones into broken balance altering ones is the way to go. A blanket 20% to all armor and weapons is too strong, especially for fighter which is supposed to have relatively weak perks because of their utility. The goal of that particular perk is to help specifically tanks in full plate and to encourage that playstyle. Weapons range from -10 to -65 ms. Armor ranges from 0 to -61 ms. Making all fighters have 20% less penalty is a huge balance change compared to making the slowest possible character ever so slightly less slow in a game where speed is the single most important stat.

[carmine current]

no i mean 95% without taunt or barricade. a fighter at that point has 2000 effective hp with base 100 health

when im saying tank build im not talking about just wearing plate. as that is just mediocre at best. im talking about that with physical damage reduction %. the only actaul way to make a tank in the game viable

[lusty wren]

Ya I think that was clear

Still not viable 😄 being faster is still better

With how shit defensive gear is speed will just always be superior

[carmine current]

also sure its a bit of an exageration to say for a full min or 2 but if a barb is hitting for 150 per headshot hit. then it would take 14 headshots to kill, if you use second wind during that then its 20 headshots to kill

[lusty wren]

That is laughable to think any barb would take 14 headshots to kill a fighter

[carmine current]

then u have obviously never fought a 95% damage reduction fighter without use reckless attack before

[carmine current]

https://youtu.be/3mjOUmTtpq8?t=272
also that person didnt even have 95% only 93% which is actually quite a lot since at 93% your EHP is 1428 while 95% is 2000

[lusty wren]

Lol

I spent 4k gold in gear and am comparing to a white starter bow lol

[carmine current]

you said any barb and that barb had a blue felling axe. i dont care about the ranger after the fact that ranger still did less then 2 damage a hit

[lusty wren]

Lol

[lusty wren]

The entire convo was built around equal gear as I stated. Not comparing full purp leggy vs blue lol

[dark rune]

TTK being longer would make the game more attrition based instead of engagement based which is not a good thing imo.

Right now getting the jump on someone gets you a high chance of victory and reward, that takes map knowledge, listening to steps, crawling, positioning etc.

Attrition based gameplay would mean the richest guy with the most potions always wins.

[lusty wren]

TTK at starter gear should be the goal for high end vs high end

[carmine current]

okay as long as the gear doesnt have armor pen it doesnt matter. barb can deal 200 damage a hit it would still take 10 hits to kill or 15 with second wind on

its called math.

[lusty wren]

No need to preface lol we said equal gear why are you taking g penetration out of the equation?

High end gear has pen on it and barbs have a pen skill lol

You are skewing the math by not accounting for it

[carmine current]

okay sure you take all penetration gear and deal about 70 at max a hit, then the fighter will hit you once and kill you. not to mention then a barb would never be able to kill any of the other classes then in that gear.

[lusty wren]

I can make math tell any tale I want if I choose the parameters and do so unhonestly as you are

[carmine current]

also i quite literally said without reckless attack, weakpoint attack, magic, or armor pen

[lusty wren]

Without all the counters put in place dishonest

You are telling a partial story and acting like it's the true situation

[carmine current]

okay the entire arguement which you are trying to spin. is that the tank build has times when its better, and so does the light armor build. you then said that no barb would ever take 14 hits to kill a fighter. which was proven wrong, now you are trying to back track since you were proven wrong on all accounts

[lusty wren]

I said equal gear vs equal gear speed is better over armor

I care less what white does vs purple

Ir what non pen items do vs purple because high end gear has pen

[carmine current]

Proxy — Today at 4:48 PM
Very rarely in DaD as a fighter does tank over speed work IMO
Defensive gear is laughable in this game. Full purple plate fighers getting one tapped by a barb 😄
I think starter gear TTK is great, but it needs to be adjusted as it goes up the ladder

high end weapons vs high end armor should be relative to starter gear TTK

Proxy — Today at 4:54 PM
LOL i did plenty of tank build fighters never could I go "afk" and let a barb hit me 😄 The amount of times I was in full purple plate and got one shot by a barb is nuts

Proxy — Today at 4:58 PM
Ya I think that was clear
Still not viable 😄 being faster is still better
With how shit defensive gear is speed will just always be superior

Proxy — Today at 5:02 PM
That is laughable to think any barb would take 14 headshots to kill a fighter

so you did not mention even once equal gear other then saying high end weapons vs high end armor having the relative TTK as starter kit. on top of that when you look at almost any geared player they have very little armor pen as is. since its the very last desierable stat that any player goes for. you would be lucky to even see a single piece of a gg geared players set having it. let alone an amount of it to actually matter. im not saying that it cant be countered, in fact armor pen and all those things i mentioned before are the counters. im just saying that if you are going against people not using those then full tank is better all the time.

[lusty wren]

I was speaking in the context of the convo which was equal gear

Or my interpretation of it.

[carmine current]

no the context didnt even mention once ever equal gear. we literally only were talking about plate armor penalties vs leather penalties and why swift currently is useless for leather armor players

[lusty wren]

Pen is built into barb at a huge rate. Can't discount that

[carmine current]

dude i literally said in the very first part. not considering reckless attack

[lusty wren]

You choose to take every option of countering it out of the equation

[haughty geode]

The purple armor sucked massive weenier

[abstract swallow]

schuzle at this point just say you want a perk that gives Fighters +3% MS

[lusty wren]

Silly you are literally assuming fighter using best perks but barb not

[carmine current]

90%+ of the players dont take reckless anyway. i literally said in the counter options its better for leather armor, but in the others plate is better.

[haughty geode]

Lv 20 fighter full purple 2 hit deaths still happen. Not saying you should be a sponge but unless barb has purp axe & is lv 20 I should otherwise never get 1 tapped as fighter tank.

[carmine current]

first they are called skills not perks. second no one takes it look at the stats from the playtest 2 and 3 it was so much lower then rage + savage roar. like so damn much more

[lusty wren]

Lol people play semantics when their argument folds

Doesn't matter u are picking and choosing giving fighter best perk for the situation and barb the worst for the situation

[haughty geode]

Damage > speed > attributes > defense stats.

[carmine current]

lol you literally had your entire point made invalid, then are trying to say that im wrong becuase of something i already mentioned. lol

[lusty wren]

Hahaha

[haughty geode]

Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol. Laugh out loud head ahh uncle.

[stoic thorn]

What am I reading? 😂

You guys are playing some ace attorneys in here

[carmine current]

what perk? lol like no one literally ever mentioned a fighter perk when discussing why plate in the situations i mentioned is better.

[carmine current]

no @lusty wren just being dumb. countering his own points, then bring up the fact that he basically misinterpreted the conversation and showed a clip proving him wrong. then still goes arguing about the same points that i already mentioned werent part of the conversation.

Dude doesnt know how to take an L

[lusty wren]

lol you mentioned multiple times "tank build fighter"

[carmine current]

yes and... lol

[lusty wren]

Clown show, im out 😄

[carmine current]

lol taking the L and leaving i respect it

[lusty wren]

Sure whatever you say kiddo. Goal post changing and picking and choosing data gets you far. No need to argue with dishonesty. Rather see myself out

[carmine current]

lol next time read the converstaion before making an abertay claimn that was proven wrong. to then have you change the subject by still not reading the conversation, otherwise you would have noticed i already pointed out the things you mentioned.

[lusty wren]

How about not pinging me thanks

[carmine current]

he is fuming lol

[amber solstice]

Every nerf to damage is a buff to healing and shields. The game devolving into whoever has the most healing available wins is just bad gameplay.

[lusty wren]

Agreed to a point, but defensive gear is sorely lacking atm imo

[carmine current]

it depends on the type of damage. magic has no way to mitigate other then with magic damage reduction, while others can be blocked with physical damage reduction, projectile damage reduction, and with protection pots.

Personally i think we need a magic damage protection pot, before any other changes to classes like wizard. since its going to be hard to tell how it will feel when fighting them without having tested it first.

[lusty wren]

Wizard kills were pretty in the gutter last PT so I dunno if id add something to counter them even further personally

Clerics had more kills than wizards

and clerics were picked less than wizards... yet still had more kills interesting tbh

I am sure judge played a bit of a role, but wouldnt think itd be that off base with how easily avoidable it is

But cleric and wizard bringing up the rear in kills as a whole

[carmine current]

lol @lusty wren complains to the mods about #suggestion-discussion message
when he is proven wrong and when he literally says himself that he didnt read the conversation

[lusty wren]

Rent free babay 😄

[lusty wren]

And again please stop pinging me. Pretty simple request 😄

[carmine current]

i guess i got under your skin that much when i proved you wrong

Also i dont care if i want to ping you then block me or mute the channel. thats on you @lusty wren

[dawn peak]

ADD GUNS

[abstract swallow]

this was pretty much all of PT3 back when Wizards had pre-nerf Fireball+Pyro and Rangers had 70 damage longbows
fights were super stagnant and people stacked meds like crazy, and whoever pushed first got obliterated, to the point that they hardcapped med purchases from the merchants this playtest and completely removed prot pots (*until greys were re-added in a hotfix)
even with overtuned damage the game will still be a wallet-war because geared teams are never going to not do the chugjug conga

[lusty wren]

<@&988703997378584596> Deal with this guy would ya 😄 (yes not wanting to be pinged over and over is "getting under my skin" 😄 )

[carmine current]

lol

[dawn peak]

ADD GUNS

ADD GUNSADD GUNSADD GUNSADD GUNSADD GUNSADD GUNSADD GUNSADD GUNSADD GUNSADD GUNSADD GUNSADD GUNS

[lusty wren]

Do enjoy living such rent free existence though

[dawn peak]

ADD GUNS?

[carmine current]

as i mentioned before you can block users

Also damn i wish i could pay the same amount for my rent as i am for living in your head lol

[lusty wren]

What kinds specifically? Bolt actions? Pistols only? 😄

[dawn peak]

@lusty wren Add AK with old recoil please

[lusty wren]

OOOH i like...

[carmine current]

oh so you dont have an issue when he pings you lol

[lusty wren]

maybe we get a tommy gun too, id rock that

[dawn peak]

No but ona real note this game is very good but wizard is the only skill based character if u have double wiz cleric u can do anything in the game with highest success rate

[lusty wren]

<@&1019888848773328936> <@&988703997378584596> Please deal with this harassment 😄 Thanks

[carmine current]

lol

[amber solstice]

If you look at the top 200 leaderboard, wizards were 2nd at 18121 kills behind barbs at 19903 while being the least played class. Wizard is hard but incredibly powerful.

1. Barb 19903, 56 of 200 entries.
2. Wizard 18121, 55 of 200 entries.
3. Ranger 11611, 48 out of 200 entries.
4. Fighter 5482, 21 of 200 entries.
5. Rogue 3442, 12 of 200 entries.
6. Cleric 1143, 5 out of 200 entries.

[dawn peak]

@carmine current are you funny?

[lusty wren]

And? I am talking about overall metrics not leaderboard where half of the battle is time invested.

[dawn peak]

@amber solstice although barb might have the most kills think about the outplay potential of a wiz comparing to a barb

[carmine current]

im thinking so. @lusty wren cant get me out of his head

[dawn peak]

@carmine current pissing people off is not a funny thing its just a self fulfilling activity done by dicheads

[lusty wren]

The thought of pissing someone off via text in discord is pretty humorous 😄

[dawn peak]

agreed especially in a suggestion channel of a game that is litteraly not live

[sonic aurora]

Lets move on from this convo both of you plox, or take it to DMS.

[lusty wren]

Id love to but the guy keeps pinging me after being asked to stop

[carmine current]

i didnt start it. @lusty wren did. he jumped into a convo that he didnt read. then i pointed out exactly everything that was wrong with what he said and gave video proof. then back tracks and complains to mods that i'm bullying him by saying he was wrong.

[lusty wren]

as seen above 😄

[amber solstice]

That was a response to wizards being in the gutter. The class is basically the lowest skill floor and least enjoyable class to most people by a mile but they can still be very good. There's a lot of things they can do do buff the floor and enjoyability without raising the ceiling.

[sonic aurora]

You both wrong. Now you have been cured. "flies away"

[lusty wren]

I agree they can be very good.

[dawn peak]

WIZARD BEING LOW SKILL ARE YOU FUNNY?

[lusty wren]

Skill FLOOR

[sonic aurora]

Unless you guys have suggestions please keep it on topic

[amber solstice]

Lowest skill floor means that being bad makes you exceptionally bad.

[dawn peak]

@sonic aurora this is a suggestion discussion channel not a suggestion channel this is on topic

[carmine current]

i mentioned that he could mute me or block me. he didnt. it doesnt break the rules laid out in the discord to ping someone. espcailly when its a double standard that he specifically only wants me to stop, but is fine with others doing it.

IE the example i mentioned above.

[dawn peak]

@amber solstice oh ok i understand now and @carmine current check dms u slug

[ebon idol]

They seem to be the least played class, and I think that is mainly because they just don't feel as interesting as the rest of the classes. Being a fighter or barbarian just is immediately more rewarding in its controls than starting off as a wizard. Wizard really is a class that has to grow on you, I think.

[opaque shore]

There's a problem with this, If someone tells you to stop messaging them and you continue It's considered harrassment.
Let's just be respectful of each other and If someone doesn't want to talk to you, there's no reason to keep bothering them

[ebon idol]

#d-and-d-suggestions message I am not entirely sure what is being asked for here. Is it that shields can be used while attacking? Or is it cancelling your attack to block.

[lusty wren]

ya sounds like they want blocking while attacking

[smoky yoke]

i think that as well
perhaps like when you attack but the shield having still the collision to block

[ebon idol]

Technically that makes sense. You wouldn't put down your shield when you attack in a realistic fight. Just a question of balance I guess.

[smoky yoke]

but since the shield has no collision when you put it back when sheathing

i doubt

[lusty wren]

Ya, I feel its more a balancing issue.

[vapid minnow]

Hoplites fighting with shields that were made to holster the spear is another thing - I'm sure there are other examples of this, makes perfect sense to me, etc etc. But perhaps not something that is innate, but part of a class system.

[lusty wren]

Would make shield play VERY strong

[abstract swallow]

shields not having passive projectile blocking is still super weird to me, since that's how it works in PvE and in pretty much any other game

[ebon idol]

Skeletons passively blocking while I can not is mildly annoying.

[lusty wren]

I mean mobs can strike thru walls also. But id say that is something they will fix

[vapid minnow]

Sprinting shouldn't be a possibility while doing it obviously, outside of reasons of just hitting your legs with the shield, so it requires a hunkered stance, maybe treat it really punishingly in terms of movement speed so it takes on the role of a shield wall, basically 0.1 movement speed but almost "true block"

[smoky yoke]

this is an unforgiving hardcore fantasy FPS dungeon adventure, remember
no mercy

[lusty wren]

I think passive blocking on players would be way to strong.

[ebon idol]

It would be crazy. Especially if they would also add back blocking. The Pavise would skyrocket.

[lusty wren]

could you imagine rangers with a pavise on their back?

[vapid minnow]

Or, treat it based off an armor value. If you don't have the pen, you can't pen.

[ebon idol]

It would be ironically a buff to the windlass crossbow. Just turn around and reload.

[amber solstice]

Absolutely. The spell pie clicking of spells instead of the far more conventional key binding spells, and their damaging abilities being so incredibly anti melee teammate, the majority of team play resulting in buff botting or team killing, poor mob clear speed,and having the least forgiving health and healing capabilities really seals the deal for the lack of playability when all classes basically have 0-1 of those issues.

[lusty wren]

ya fire, turn reload fire again sounds cancerous 😄

[abstract swallow]

I sure hope it's an unforgiving hardcore fantasy FPS dungeon adventure by the end of things
because everyone and their little brother is whining about things being too hard and slow and seething at the inevitable addition of basic dungeon-crawling mechanics, trying to turn it into some mediocre battle royale

[fiery ledge]

Maybe a fix would be to increase particular types of magical damage against certain types of npcs while having some recycling ability like soul shards (kill X to refill or perform X to refill while X is true)

[ebon idol]

Wizard is literally learn or die. Very unforgiving when it comes to errors.

[lusty wren]

I have a feeling those loud ones will win out also. Its sad but its probably the case

[dark rune]

My problem with Wizard is that every spell has a downside attached to it which is pretty annoying considering the upsides aren't even that good

[abstract swallow]

pretty sure the devs said they wanted to expand the elemental interactions, but they haven't gone into detail about it yet

[white cliff]

Yes I want all my games to have annoyingly crippling and anti fun mechanics like weight systems.

[fiery ledge]

Have you messed with Ice Shard? Sorry, I'm just spitting on wizard a little more, that spell is so sad.

[ebon idol]

Data wise the upsides are very good. Wizards are true killers. But they are hard to play to make them those killers.

[abstract swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/no-yes-giga-chad-giga-chad-gif-23156898

[lusty wren]

I dont really view weight as a dungeon crawler mechanic tbh. I dont think it fits DaD in any way

[dark rune]

Ice shard deals 0 damage it seems and travels slower than a fighter can run in a straight line

[smoky yoke]

so many deaths in the solo dungeons compared to the other game modes

according to the data

[ebon idol]

Makes sense. After all most PvE strategy in castle is run away and let someone of the party else kill it.

[fiery ledge]

Makes perfect sense. Something you can do while you kill time waiting for your friends without any attachment to the gear.

[lusty wren]

I do consider a FINITE inventory to be apart of a dungeon crawler experience. but that is already done in DaD without weight

[dark rune]

tbh I'm not saying the wizard is a weak class, just that it feels really annoying / weak when you start playing it so many players probably drop it after a few games with starting loot

[smoky yoke]

before, apparently goblin archers did not have poison, but it was boring and easy so they added poison also to them

[fiery ledge]

Maybe give the wizard a spell book and a staff on default?

[white cliff]

All jokes aside I want the game to stay hard, but I don’t want to have to deal with super limiting systems like weight, and like the devs have stated stamina.

[smoky yoke]

yea sure

[ebon idol]

I love that 1/3 of dead players in the goblin mines just got shanked by the goblin fighter.

[lusty wren]

Devs said they hated the idea of stam right?

[smoky yoke]

I think because it was relatively a new mode, people had to understand a bit more the enemies and spawns and location also

[lusty wren]

Very happy they feel that way on that topic. Stamina has no place here along with weight. Our inventories/stashes are already finite enough

[white cliff]

Wizard was an extremely good class but relied very heavily on gear, and a bunch of campfires running 2x memory. Absolute monstrous after those requirements where met.

[smoky yoke]

and they don't want to make all weapons being able to parry

[fiery ledge]

The portals at the end were hilarious. People just weren't looking to get out right away and so a lot of others die at the very end.

[ebon idol]

The attacks of the goblin fighters do come out a lot faster than skeleton warriors and guards though. Skellies have a really big windup time.

[abstract swallow]

yeah nobody wants some cancerous system like T*rkov has that punishes you for playing the game, I just want a simple M&B style equipload deal so running around with my schlong out isn't the best use of half my slots for most of progression

[lusty wren]

I like this design choice also

[smoky yoke]

yes this also true

people did not consider the multiple layouts level
i like they fact they can spawn in different layouts

[fiery ledge]

And that you have to be mindful of what floor you're on and where you have dominance.

[abstract swallow]

Caves were also much, much faster than Castle was, and there was much more PvE/PvP engagement much earlier in the round (which normally only happens with those garbo spawns around Pyramid/Cage in F2)
then it was made even more dense with the +2 lobby size

[lusty wren]

Did anyone enjoy the new spawn system?

[dark rune]

My enjoyment remained stable across all playtests

[fiery ledge]

Maybe some people saw 3 portals, the most I ever saw at the end were 2, god help you if the floors are so spread out.

The new spawn system was chaotic. Sometimes 3v3v3v3v3 sometimes nothing, lots of in between, but it wasn't the best, certainly wouldn't mind it again. It seemed to stop a lot of zerging.

[abstract swallow]

I'm legally obligated to say no because I never finished my spawnkilling frag video, but it was a huge improvement
but being a huge improvement over absolute garbage isn't very impressive

[lusty wren]

Ya I am not a fan of the fix. I thought it made it worse tbh.

[ebon idol]

I enjoyed the spawns a lot.

[dawn peak]

@lusty wren check dms

[ebon idol]

#d-and-d-suggestions message Making this an effect on a unique dagger is very wasted. If that was the effect I got from my unique dagger, I would be grumpy.

[lusty wren]

TBH I would be ok with the dagger effects being client side. Not sure I agree with them being so blingey

[fiery ledge]

The new spawns seemed to put everyone in the "closets" of every tile/layout. The zerging spawns from PT3 were still there but I'd say those were very unlikely to ever kick off because I think a lot of others were still thrown off by the new system. You'd have to be looking for it or get lucky or both be looking for it.

I felt it was easy to get sidetracked and go somewhere else.

[lusty wren]

I literally spawned in a closet with a ranger camping the door the second they heard me take a step before.. That shit is ridiculous 😄

[ebon idol]

This should just be an added effect of Hidden Pockets. Hidden Pockets is the skill that you take so you don't glow in the dark. Why doesn't it get rid of the things that glow in the dark entirely.

[lusty wren]

Ya it should

I always left spawn room pretty fast the PT's before and never had a problem with being camped in my spawn room. But with this system it happened far to often

[ebon idol]

Never happened to me that bad, no idea if that is a hyperbole. But I did meet another group before I met an NPC. That wasn't bad, it was just unexpected.

[lusty wren]

I mean it wasnt constant, but it was vastly more than the amount of times I got spawn rushed before (which was almost never because I left that room immediately)

[fiery ledge]

Did you guys like that new room with the health shrines, all the archers, and sleeping skeletons and pukers? Did you like your 3v3v3v3s there?

[ebon idol]

You mean the big round room with the chest on the podium in the middle? I love that room.