#suggestion-discussion

1 messages · Page 54 of 1

wintry forge
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You're in South America? What if it was $5/mo in NA, but only $1/mo in SA. What I'm saying is they could charge monthly with the option of paying a discounted flat fee, and they can charge whatever they think is reasonable for each region.

tender magnet
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This channel is going wild

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This game is not going to be subscription based

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What a funny little idea

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This isn't' WoW

open ermine
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honestly is there any fps game that uses a sub fee?

tender magnet
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Is Tarkov play to play?

serene snow
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there are a massive amount of cheaters in both games and cheater companies make bank off of it

granite plinth
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Worst idea ever

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subscription based

tender magnet
granite plinth
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In 2023

tender magnet
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Let's just keep IP banning cheaters, and let everyone else keep playing

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like many other games

serene snow
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my fortnite account is the only account that's been hacked of mine

open ermine
wintry forge
tender magnet
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Crazy

opaque shore
# wintry forge You're in South America? What if it was $5/mo in NA, but only $1/mo in SA. What ...

I know what you mean and that's not how currency exchange works.
For example, a PS5 costs 300$
The cheapest example I could find without searching too much was 4.499R$
That would be way more than a flat currency exchange, which would be 1.200R$
It is that way because we need to account for shipping fees + every bureaucracy behind it.
Even with the best/most cheap translation from 5$ a month, the lowest It could ever get flattened would be 3.9$ or 4$

open ermine
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even WoW classic had people within the first month if i remember actively No-clipping, speedhacking, teleporting, flying, and auto mining resource nodes

serene snow
opaque shore
serene snow
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imagine how bad wow hacks would be if it was free to play

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every server would have someone insta killing the entire server all the time

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it would go the way of The WarZ

opaque shore
# serene snow imagine how bad wow hacks would be if it was free to play

Actually It would be very likely less, because then WoW would've never lost that many subscriptions after MoP, people would still be playing every now and then, but they didn't mostly because they didn't want to pay for a game they didn't want to play anymore.

You hear League of Legends slander from many players and top players, yet they can always comeback to the game free of charge.

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The reason F2P games have better anti-cheat is because they have a bigger playerbase that demands better anti-cheats

wintry forge
opaque shore
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It would be theoretically impossible to keep up with inflation rates every month

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For every region

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They'd have to check in with Steam every month

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For every single region

fair copper
serene snow
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the game is mostly played on the server for those games

opaque shore
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That is very debatable sir.

serene snow
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esp doesn't exist in lol because the server doesn't tell the client where players are unless the server decides they can see them

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fps games tell the client where every player is all the time

agile condor
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Otherwise you might not legitimately see a player fast enough

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The engagement distance also matters

opaque shore
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Less players = Less demand for both queues and anti-cheat

agile condor
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In non-fps the server can have more control of everything that happens, relying less on the client and only telling the client about information when it wants

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In LoL when someone is in fog or grass your computer does not actually know where they are, when the enemy leaves the grass your computer is essentially alerted to their location. For Tarkov, if someone is behind a wall 300m away, your computer already knows they’re there but it’s hidden from your screen. The hack would then allow you to see where they are since it already has the information. If fps was treated like league then when someone peaked out behind a wall it would then take the latency to even see them as your computer doesn’t know they’re already there. Similarly, if the enemy is hiding in a bush 300m away, your computer needs to know about them there cause you might actually see them, even if the chances are near 0. Otherwise they make it impossible to see people past a certain distance

wintry forge
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Interesting.

ionic mango
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What happened here? what was being discussed?

tender magnet
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making the game subscription based

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to play

ionic mango
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yikes

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why?

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main argument for it?

wintry forge
# ionic mango main argument for it?

Keeps bringing in income for Ironmace. I know everyone wants things cheap, but this game is the Ironmace devs livelihood. Doesn't mean they need to charge as much as other subscriptions.

opaque shore
ionic mango
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it would never be worth the amount of people that would never touch the game cause the subscription scares them away

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xD

wintry forge
opaque shore
opaque shore
warped atlas
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Noone wants sub model to try out a game, would be way better to have current system with alpha weekish long playtests and then sell EA for the time when its not open f2p, wiping for every f2p week.

agile condor
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I think most people agree they need to make money somehow - I don’t think suggesting ways here for the Nth time is very impactful

opaque shore
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I did make clear on the many of many more cons of subscription base games today.

wintry forge
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Let's agree to disagree. I can see ways of having a subscription-based plan that wouldn't scare away people. I didn't bring it up again anyway. I was answering Tommyman10's question about the pros of it.

ionic mango
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theres no world where a subscription plan doesnt block a lot of people from playing the game

opaque shore
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We can happily agree to disagree.

ionic mango
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its funny to see theres a select group of people on these channels that are eager to throw money into the game cause they like it so much, and suggest the most game ruining ways to do so, its so boggling to read

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you wanna spend money on the game? great! go buy cosmetics and stuff, dont suggest money = power in game or subscription where the highest % of people that dont want to be forced to spend money will be put at a disadvantage xD

dire needle
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Idk cheating in this game will require on staff GM's to address that can review in game reports and immediately spectate and analyze.

wintry forge
dire needle
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They will need to be able to analyze the data while simultaneously watching the cheating happening, this will allow them to reverse engineer the hacks and implement systems to stop it.

ionic mango
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a lot more people would be eager to pay for cosmetics than a subscription, because the subscription is forcing u to do so

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also what are these numbers ur comparing xD if its 1/mo or 40 flat, the devs would win more money with 40 flat so why would they do a subscription in that case too

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force a subscription upon a player base, no joke, lose somewhere close to 40% of it

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around 60% or more in the longer run

lusty wren
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I think a base price with optional non gameplay related DLC would be great

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40 is a great spot for base price imo

ionic mango
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its beyond lunatic that we are even considering its not

lusty wren
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I would buy cosmetics/titles all sorts of shit just to support

ionic mango
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id dip on a cosmetic or 2 maybe

hollow sentinel
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the gear already looks pretty steezy

wintry forge
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Thing is if this game is around for 10 years at $1/mo Ironmace would make $400 from one person in that time frame, and supposing that most of the player base buys it when it first releases, Ironmace will be losing money to keep running the game during that time period. I'm just brainstorming. I don't know how much expenses Ironmace will have to keep running the game.

hollow sentinel
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cosmetics would be okay though

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a bigger, wider hat for the wizard would be a must-buy

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a balder head for the cleric

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low-cut pants for the barb to show off his v-lines

lusty wren
ionic mango
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They dont want to wait 4 years to make profit out of 1 purchase....

lusty wren
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Shit take a qtr

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times it by 40

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Thats still 10000000

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😄

hollow sentinel
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they haven't done any marketing at all yet either

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this is all hype

wary shell
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Stop trying to figure out the money model for this company

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The kind of popularity this game has already will make the money making process simple enough

opaque shore
spice pawn
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maybe we should add a mob-type to the dungeon that has the face of MrBeanz profile picture. it's starting to grow on me

eager sableBOT
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suggester_x No command was found based on your input!

modern walrus
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hey, i dont understand how I can put a suggestion in the good channel? I am suppose to write my command on the #1048762118255673428 channel right?

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do i have a time limit between 2 suggestion? when I try to submit my suggestion my screen shake and it doesn't work

agile condor
wintry forge
opaque shore
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#d-and-d-suggestions message @clear fox
This seems like It would only be useful in the last playtest as QoL

They will probably add more items to each merchant, to make them all more useful in their own ways

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#d-and-d-suggestions message @lunar trail
I personally think an training room separate from lobbies would be really, really nice to test weapon damage or skills

lunar trail
opaque shore
open ermine
opaque shore
agile condor
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I’d rather them all have their own uses rather than just axing them all to 1-2 traders.

open ermine
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any% speed run lobby to pet otto

lunar trail
ionic cobalt
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first time spell casting and loadouts could def use a tutorial

opaque shore
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When they add more items to each merchant they will be more useful

ionic cobalt
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we had what, 10 shopkeepers? collector and treasurer can be easily combined

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same for tailor and leathersmith

opaque shore
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That's for now though.

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We don't know what else they have planned for merchants.

ionic cobalt
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alchemist, doctor, and tavernamster could be combined into 2

opaque shore
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Heck, the collector could be fully geared by Early Access

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There must be a reason they have this many merchants

ionic cobalt
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thats true too. lets see how it shakes out, but previous play test it def felt like one too many for the sake of numbers

opaque shore
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Currently, I would agree.
If they add more items to each merchant, then I wouldn't see it as useful.

mossy ruin
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The only time a subscription based model for payment in gaming is reasonable, is when the content is consistently being updated and worked on in a manner than extends progression further as the game evolves. Like MMORPGs, this is why MMORPGS even do it, because its very justified. A game like Dark and Darker could easily do battlepasses per wipe(this fits its gameplay model) or have you pay for additional content(like a new character they release later.. althought I dont like this personally)

opaque shore
ionic cobalt
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ff14?

mossy ruin
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Not entirely sure, but its very reasonable to do so. And yeah FF14 and ESO was I thought? Subs aren't objectively better, but it definitely doesnt fit DaD and fits MMORPGs better as a genre.

opaque shore
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Oh wow, after a quick search there is quite a hefty sum.

open ermine
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FFXIV/FFXI and Ashes of creation whenever it launches

gray vessel
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suggest -> More in game shops, and (assuming they are adding races) racist shops that will refuse to sell anything to my character because hes a stinky orc

opaque shore
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Elder Scrolls Online
Final Fantasy XIV
Star Wars: The Old Republic
Dragon Quest X
Tibia
Wurm Online
Darkfall: Rise of Agon
EverQuest 2

open ermine
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however i think i heard a rumor that FFXI's sub fee is getting rolled into XIV's like wow classic is for retail wow so could probably just mush those 2 together

opaque shore
open ermine
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oh and uh bit of a sad/oddball case

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Archeage also has a sub version

opaque shore
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Oh yeah, Wizard101 is a thing.

agile condor
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Yeah I’ll support mmos with a subscription but this isn’t an mmo lol

upbeat pewter
runic musk
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I think the issue is lack of items and crafting system, right now it's just collect a currency to buy item.
Having blacksmith sell you a weapon mold so you could make that weapon as rubysilver would work eay better

upbeat pewter
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Crafting will come, it was just a quick add last test.

runic musk
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Yes ik

upbeat pewter
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Im sure they have way better ideas for it

runic musk
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Current one i dont want to see for sure

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Having a crafting skill tree would be cool

upbeat pewter
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Current isnt too bad, its just too long a grind for one item, but it was purple only, so meh.

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Similar, with a single raid obtained green would be fine

runic musk
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Tbh would rather see infused weapons in some cases - you need to get a hold of the weapon and the ore and you get an upgradr

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Having a bit of a shoppinglist before going into the dungeon

upbeat pewter
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I doubt crafting will be that in depth. Much more than what it was already (as in, getting item, turning it into another item) would be taking away from the main game.

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I feel like enchanting may be a part of crafting, which is similar.

runic musk
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I think it would at to it, having another way to play and gear up

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Ad*

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Add*

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Dang

upbeat pewter
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The problem i see with crafting in general is that its pretty similar to just having sold items, then buying it from the shop

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With more steps.

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The only difference is that you can gamble on it now, instead of waiting for a shop reroll

runic musk
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Right now it does for sure

upbeat pewter
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If its deterministic, thats likely bad for the game.

hollow sentinel
runic musk
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Would rather have it semi reliable upgrades but clunkier too collec5

upbeat pewter
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Can always buy reliable off another player.

hollow sentinel
upbeat pewter
hollow sentinel
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HR was usually the only time I'd get to use the dummy, you'd get 7 minutes in the tavern sometimes

upbeat pewter
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My server was almost instant in it, when i tried

runic musk
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Yeah it felt kinda dead

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Usually got into 3 player lobbies

hollow sentinel
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Day 1 and 2 of last playtest was constant 1/16 high roller

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I think it should just boot you out to re-queue if the lobby doesn't reach minimum 12 players

upbeat pewter
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Yeah, i tried day 4 or something

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Does the game just start?

hollow sentinel
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Yep

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Free loot really

upbeat pewter
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Be nice if it gave you the option.

hollow sentinel
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All you need to do is sit in the corner and cheese ai for free $$$$

upbeat pewter
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People just wanting to play would feel shit if that was yhe case.

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And why cheese AI?

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They are easy to dodge

hollow sentinel
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You don't need to cheese it

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It's just an option

upbeat pewter
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Ofc, just seems weird people jump to that lol

hollow sentinel
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Imo, playing in a less than half full lobby is cheese to begin ith

upbeat pewter
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Loot is pretty free

runic musk
upbeat pewter
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its not like ranger should need to cheese AI either

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dodge and shoot works just as well

pseudo wing
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them centaurs pretty scary

open ermine
hollow sentinel
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Wait for aa2

open ermine
cosmic thistle
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@smoky panther Your suggestion is funny but im almost 100% sure that chain lightning only hit 3 targets.

smoky panther
cosmic thistle
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Ill just look at wiki

mossy ruin
hollow sentinel
cosmic thistle
frosty creek
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Hi pleas give me feed back instead of just down vote ?

plain knot
karmic zenith
modern walrus
# frosty creek Hi pleas give me feed back instead of just down vote ?

the IA of mobs is pretty dumb so far and easy to cheese, + adding a 'for fun' mode where you still can get loot, it's not really 'for fun' anymore and it can probably be cheesed and used to farm loot, i don't know if it's a bad idea by essence, but the game is only at his beginning and adding this kind of thing, that would require probably quiet a lot of balancing and a lot of work for the devs
the vague idea you and others talked about of having a kind of reputation and at some point guilds could put contracts on your head and having players in dungeons try to hunt you that could be fun.

upbeat pewter
pliant halo
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There is no point even to read his suggestions. See the profile pic or word "like" and insta downvote.

upbeat pewter
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he's trying now though. taken feedback a few times, and actually trying. thats worth a few more seconds of my time than he did before

rocky oar
upbeat pewter
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who cares about exclusive cosmetics

modern walrus
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the suggestion is more like a big brainstorming than really serious way to suggest things to devs

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so lets not take ourselves too seriously imo

rocky oar
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A lot of people do, it's why it's done in a lot of game

upbeat pewter
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-shrugs- its more that its a thing given out and then never used by an overwhelming majority of the playerbase.

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in all my time in mmorpgs, ive never used, nor seen a founder/beta title/tag/cosmetic that wasnt earnt via some feat.

pliant halo
modern walrus
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i dont need unique cosmetic to want to play the alpha, and the ten of thousands of people playing it so far don't either

upbeat pewter
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cape

smoky yoke
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it's something I never liked in videogames because potential cut content for the future of people that may buy dark and darker, say in the 2025
locking stuff behind time limited stuff, something i never liked personally
just my opinion about

upbeat pewter
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yeah, thats kind of it.

smoky yoke
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everyone should be able to obtain content in the game

upbeat pewter
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combined with the fact that you only had to 'be there' makes it meh

smoky yoke
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i agree lol

upbeat pewter
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one title thats memorable that i remember is the AQ title and weapon in WoW

smoky yoke
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because for example if you would have missed the limited exclusive cosmetics, i'm pretty sure you would wanted those (speaking in general)

upbeat pewter
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but that also comes with such a silly feeling that you'll never even have the chance of getting it

smoky yoke
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and i'm really against FOMO stuff

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(fear of missing out)

modern walrus
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yeah

upbeat pewter
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yeah, me too

smoky yoke
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bad practice

modern walrus
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and it seems a bit against the philosophy the devs say they have

rocky oar
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Mmm, idk. I only like Alpha specific cosmetic to show off that you've been their since the beginning

smoky yoke
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even if were free cosmetics
fomo applies to everything

rocky oar
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A singular cosmetic

smoky yoke
upbeat pewter
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the point is, that a 'be there' cosmetic that only serves to show that you were an alpha player isnt something people actually care about

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they want, they get, they never use

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because something you earn will always be way cooler

pliant halo
rocky oar
upbeat pewter
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i dont peace crouch anyone lol

smoky yoke
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the only thing i'd accept is something for people that played the playtests, but then making also obtainable in future behind, say, adventure points.
something like that

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fair for everyone 🙂

upbeat pewter
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yeah.

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but that kind of defeats the purpose of it being founder.

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but it could just be something nice for everyone

rocky oar
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Yup

upbeat pewter
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it doesnt change the fact the exclusive is still bad

smoky yoke
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in other games I always had exclusive goodies given because limited time events but i always feel bad for the people missing this kind of stuff.
luckily in some games they make available limited time stuff later

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anyway fair and valid opinion both of you @upbeat pewter @rocky oar

rocky oar
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People care more than you think. I don't like time specific cosmetics after the game comes out such as battle passes. I like Alpha/Beta cosmetic though cause it shows you have been their since the beginning and you have something to show for it. Your words to most people mean nothing unless you have something to show for it and it's even more impactful when someone in-game sees you with said cosmetic. EFT has the Alpha arm-band and there are very few people with that arm-band at this point and it's always cool see someone having it and you go "Oh shit, this guy has been playing since Alpha which was like 7 years ago"

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A singular item btw and it doesn't have to been something crazy either. It can be something really small to just show.

upbeat pewter
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why does it matter if you do or dont have something to show for being in beta?

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its not an achievement. we arnt special

rocky oar
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Your thinking too negative man. People do feel special/happy about such things cause it gives them something cool to show off to others. You may not care but many other people do care.

upbeat pewter
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as i said, im yet to see anyone ever using a founder thing outside of the first few weeks of the game.

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and exclusive cosmetics cause far more pain than they do 'special'

verbal marsh
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I show off by destroying players who have no concept of how to play the game yet.

upbeat pewter
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due to not being obtainable

verbal marsh
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I don't need a gold skin to do it more flashily.

upbeat pewter
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id like a p2lose skin for high rank

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glow gold or some shit

verbal marsh
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I only wore skeleton skin to give you poor newbs a chance :3

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or as uncle roger would say; Psychological damage.

upbeat pewter
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the skeleton skin was pretty cool, honestly

pliant halo
verbal marsh
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You only need a blue weapon :3 who brings armor into norms.

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I do norms to gear my armor out, and buy the ticket xD thats about all

smoky yoke
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people that want to tryhard lol

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orange gear in normal 😄

pliant halo
verbal marsh
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I love to see it Greed

smoky yoke
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in normal dungeons i usually bring green and blue, i save high tier gear for HR usually

smoky yoke
verbal marsh
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its like bringing ar's into factory :3

smoky yoke
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very possible to go gearless in HR dungeons and get the stuff on the moment in the end

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everything's possible in the end

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i'm always afraid though, 8/10 people are there with purple+ gear

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and then 1 or 2 hits and Skull

verbal marsh
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Takes longer to push HR without gear but doable if you're just gonna poke players

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feel like its kinda a waste of the entry fee to go in naked since you pull less lewt and are weaker to other players

modern walrus
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guys what do you think about not having to mouse over every item to check their rarity? I think having a colorcode or something else to check the rarity of items/jewelry/consumable/etc.. just with a glimpse would make us spend less times in menus and more time wandering around

verbal marsh
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a blue only cost 100g, worth buying any crappy blue weapon and at least going in with that

smoky yoke
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but usually i farm in normal then i go in HR

verbal marsh
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the drop rate in hr is a lot higher then norm for rares imo

smoky yoke
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and i split the gear depending the dungeon
id never bring purple+ in normal
i just save it for HRs

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yea

verbal marsh
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the main problem was the escape timer making it harder to lewt as much

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but when you're geared and flash clearing rooms its easier to farm as long as another team doesnt beat you

smoky yoke
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normal just some games to farm the first stuff and at least getting 500/1000 gold to invest in HR

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next playtest i will play more HR dungeons i think

verbal marsh
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i wouldn't waste full set most cases I played with rando's a lot

smoky yoke
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lol

verbal marsh
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most of my play is solo even when grouped lol

smoky yoke
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ah cool

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i kinda play as solo too sometimes

verbal marsh
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I basically play expecting my teammates to get themselves killed :3

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What type of content were you doing toward end of playtest silmeria

rocky oar
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Bro

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I kept trying to do Boss kills and could not find people to do basic ass mechanics

verbal marsh
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I only had one person who knew some about boss, but we only tried once.

rocky oar
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I wanted to do bosses so badly but like I will post about doing bosses and no one even knows the mechanics at all

verbal marsh
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and it was the elemental boss they didnt know as much about lol

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its not hard to get to, not sure why everyone thinks you gotta be all macho about it when you're just learning how mechanics work lol

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but nah they always give up immediately and run off lol

rocky oar
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It's wild. I will even explain the mechanics to a T and they will still mess it up. It's extremely basic the mechanics

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It ain't no WoW raid you know xD

verbal marsh
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Noone told me mechanics so I never learned how to fight it

rocky oar
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It is soooo basic

verbal marsh
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only know that it puts some curse on you have to stand near teamates or get cured

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dont know any of the other mechanics

rocky oar
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Crazy, seems like people care. Lol.

safe gyro
# upbeat pewter who cares about exclusive cosmetics

People that know they stand apart. People that like having UNIFYING symbolism that represents the bonds theyve forged with their new friends and family! COMMUNITY! Is what its all about! I imagine youd understand, with a larger circle.

upbeat pewter
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sounds like a complex way to agree with me, honestly. you dont need a skin or title for any of that. its all in your heart

rocky oar
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18 to 6, "who cares about exclusive cosmetics"

smoky yoke
safe gyro
upbeat pewter
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its an opinion, sure, but the reality is that people dont need one either. theres also the fact that whether the devs do it or not wont change player retention from those of the playtest. they'll just think its 'nice' or whatever.
its just not necessary.

safe gyro
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Im gonna need to see your licensing

upbeat pewter
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uh, what?

safe gyro
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What exactly makes you an authority on what people need?

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Are you a Doctor? Psychologist?

upbeat pewter
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please explain to me why you would 'need' it. why is it so important?

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or are you just being a douchebag here, because it sure sounds like it

rocky oar
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Why do you think no one cares when people clearly do care. Yes it doesn't do much but people like showing that they have supported such a great game since the beginning by having something to show off to others.

upbeat pewter
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come on, 'noone cares' is rarely used to say that literally noone cares.

rocky oar
upbeat pewter
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its obviously an overreaction to say that very few care.

safe gyro
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See, now, I am going to return your energy and be a douchebag. You are openly opposing something, that you dont have to use. Simply out of spite because you dont want them to have what they want. II already explained, but your warped perception couldn't grasp the concept, or context of the situation at all. Its a video game kid. No one needs any of it, except you extending your will over others wishes apparently

upbeat pewter
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and most times its suggested its vastly negative

opaque shore
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Exclusivity is a little weird, It's a super grey area.
At the same time it creates hype, It also creates elitism

safe gyro
upbeat pewter
rocky oar
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Bro, you were being rude earlier.

safe gyro
upbeat pewter
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was i? how?

safe gyro
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You simply dont want other people to have it, because you dont want it. So you think you have the right to impose that? or argue against it? Grow up and stop projecting child.

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Are you going to suffer a brain hemorage if they add it?\

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Degenerative ulscers?

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Back pain?

opaque shore
#

I'd say exclusivity only in cases like an expensive kickstarter modal where only users that have donated 1k+ dollars would be able to get their exclusive rewards.
Towards something that will cost like for example: 10$ and then become exclusive after It is sold, It will create a false sense of elitism between players, where one kid will think they're better than other users for having a 10$ skin that's exclusive

safe gyro
#

Or, does it make you angry to see people get what they want, because you dont get it in your life?

opaque shore
upbeat pewter
#

im blocking this guy. he clearly wants to fight, i dont care for it

#

i wont be baited into whatever he wants lol

safe gyro
# opaque shore Stop trying to incite a fight, this is not the place to fight.

The fight started, when @upbeat pewter decided he knew what people needed, in regards to a video game.
considering the complete ridiculousness of his entire argument, Im surprised you'd make such a baseless claim against me, and I would appreciate it, if in the future, you ask my intentions in DM's before making assumptions. Text is a grey area. Words are often confused.
But what is very clear, telling people what they need, in a situation based on opinions, is itself, unnecessary conflict. When the person presenting the absurdity, would suffer no harm were the suggestion implemented. Palpable bitterness was flowing out of him, creating conflict.

#

I hope this is perceptive

steady cloud
#

howdy yall

safe gyro
#

o7 @steady cloud

steady cloud
#

what ?

safe gyro
#

its a salute!

steady cloud
#

i dont get it

#

how o7 its salute

#

ohhhhhh

#

i see it

safe gyro
#

lol

steady cloud
#

👍

opaque shore
safe gyro
#

I was waiting, everyone gets it when they look hard enough! I

#

@opaque shore You should read his comment above that

steady cloud
#

yes

#

what w8 mean then

#

so many people say w8

#

its also salute ?

rocky oar
#

@opaque shore

opaque shore
upbeat pewter
#

can you please stop pinging me

#

holy crap

#

i already showed that i didnt want to be part of this conversation anymore due to the other guy

opaque shore
#

#d-and-d-suggestions message @rocky oar
Although I do think this is a nice idea, I do agree with Darknesse It isn't too important.
It is great, I like it, but It's not that big of a deal.

#

#d-and-d-suggestions message @gentle blade
I do like the idea of a cosmetic skin exclusive to Alpha players but, I myself as an opinion would not like to see this.
There would be many cons and pros to this and I will list some

Pros:
It's a nice way to show early users gratitude
It's not too hard to implement
It's a reward for playing in the playtests and helping the devs

Cons:
It could be later on used to fuel elitism within the community
I feel like a discord badge would be fine, but a cosmetic skin in-game is not really too necessary
The cosmetic skin in-game could be something that users could use to gatekeep communities within the game

rocky oar
opaque shore
#

They were mostly influenced by cosmetics as well.

rocky oar
#

Also, people can try to be elitist over literally anything. At this point if we are worried about people being elitist then we shouldn't put any cosmetics into the game ever that you have to earn.

opaque shore
#

Even in League of Legends It happens a ton.

opaque shore
#

Elitism is also something lootboxes have done multiple times, wasting $$$ to have something not many other users have

#

It's a very grey area, because I do the the pros, but I also see the cons.

rocky oar
#

You can never avoid it period. If you have to earn anything at all, then people can be and will be elitist over it cause other people do not have the skill to earn said item.

#

This obviously include things that you can buy. Not everyone has disposable income to spend on cosmetics.

opaque shore
# rocky oar You can never avoid it period. If you have to earn anything at all, then people ...

There is a difference between a hard earned elitism and just lazy elitism though.
For example, If you've played 1000 hours of Dark and Darker and you have every single thing unlocked, you have earned this.
Now, If you have played in a certain period of time, that most players in the future haven't been able to play in, then It's more of a you were playing it earlier than them, not really an indicator of earn but more of a luck / early tester.

Elitism over earned items vs. Elitism over bought or limited items are very different in many ways.

Elitism over bought or limited items problems would be exclusivity elitism, something the other user can not get no matter what they do.
Elitism over earned items would be gametime elitism, something other users can get, but haven't had the time to get it yet.

rocky oar
#

Elitism is still just elitism. You speak of 1000 hours to earn something but more than likely there is skilled involved with such achievements. It doesn't matter whether you spend 100 hours or 1000 hours, if you do not have the skill to earn such achievement, then someone will and have in the past talk crap about you because you do not have the skill to do it.

#

I can spend 3000 hours trying to hit Masters on LoL and I will never get it because I do not have the skill to it and people will absolutely talk down towards me.

opaque shore
rancid pebble
#

anyone notice how the suggestions are getting bland. Someone will make one suggestion, then 3-4 near verbatim ones are made right after it. Little bit annoying but it makes sense, its been weeks since the PT and people don't have any good suggestions, or even new suggestions.

#

I mean there are at least 5 suggestions surrounding pre release players getting a special title/skin/way to show they played before release.

rocky oar
#

Listen, I made mine 1st and I didn't think people were gonna copy it xD

#

Also, I've seen plenty of good suggestions but, there are a lot more bad suggestions than good so it kinda bleeds out all the good one unfortunately

opaque shore
rocky oar
#

Who's tavern master?

#

I don't see his

opaque shore
wary junco
#

Get cat to pet? So we have a dog and cat?

rocky oar
#

OHHHH

#

I didn't know Tavern Master was a role lol

safe gyro
#

I personally dont know of any cosmetic elitist's, but with 9billion people on the planet...........

rocky oar
#

I was like bro, that's not his name

opaque shore
opaque shore
rocky oar
#

What do they do?

opaque shore
opaque shore
open ermine
wary junco
#

Just a Quick question how did you guys liked the all stat meta last playtest?

safe gyro
#

Cant remember the name of the game

opaque shore
opaque shore
#

NFTs are very looked down upon for elitism too

safe gyro
#

Speaking of which, SkunkWorks servers on Space Engineers is a great place for Space RP Survival! Its like EVE Online, but more FPS in nature! (Thanks @opaque shore )

wary junco
opaque shore
wary junco
#

I was kinda funny that the wizard that killed me was fast as a ferari

opaque shore
#

The fireball double instant shot was very, very strong

wary junco
#

I tried to run away with babarian shout and he just ran past me like "sup dude" and oneshotet me

#

Then i spectated his Party and they all had maximum +3 stat ups

#

Mostly aiming for movementspeed and all stats

safe gyro
opaque shore
clear fox
#

To build on my suggestion about making silver useful. I'm currently playing in a 5e campaign Curse of Strahd, a vampire themed setting. In this world silver is worth far more than gold. Even though its a 'lesser' value, it's mystical properties make it extremely useful when fighting vampires and other creatures with magical defenses. This would be a cool addition to dark and darker. Silver being worth more than gold for the purpose of fighting evil creatures.

stiff shard
#

aint no vampires in dnd... and gold is more valuable than silver... at that point you might as well add wooden steak as a weapon.

lusty wren
stiff shard
#

are they new?

opaque shore
#

Are you talking about Dungeons and Dragons or Dark and Darker?

#

Because he is referring to Dungeons and Dragons

stiff shard
#

im talking to lykos

#

about vampires

opaque shore
#

Yes, I am aware

stiff shard
#

in dark and darker

#

this discord is for dark and darker

#

why tf would i talk about dungeons and ragons?>

#

lol

opaque shore
#

There are no vampires in Dark and Darker, but there are vampires on Dungeons and Dragons.

stiff shard
#

shits trash

opaque shore
#

This game is heavily inspired by Dungeons and Dragons

lusty wren
#

Dark and Darker is DaD

stiff shard
#

but is is NOT dungeons n dragons

lusty wren
#

Dungeons and dragons is DnD

#

😄

stiff shard
#

oh stfu

lusty wren
#

helps clarify

stiff shard
#

xD

#

just like wow dungeons names in lfg

opaque shore
stiff shard
#

???

lusty wren
stiff shard
#

i said stfu to something that clearly deserverd it lol

lusty wren
#

I stick on semantics just for clarity. Easily confused when we use DnD

#

But I digress, I thought you meant no vampires in DnD.

stiff shard
#

how tf are yall getting confsed about dnd and the game were in the discord for?

#

sheeeeesh

lusty wren
#

Because DaD draws alot of inspiration from DnD. So its hard to use the acronyms interchangeably here

DaD

stiff shard
#

shoulda named the game somethihn else at this point xD lol

#

but ye dad and dnd are different il say dad from now on

#

sorry to all who ive critically offended

lusty wren
#

Not offended, just cuts down on communication errors like above

#

On the silver topic, I liked the idea of having them used to buy the coin purses. At least gives them a bit of value that way

upbeat pewter
#

Be nice if they were the only way to get purses.

#

And loads of them for bigger loçkchests for coins or somethinf

clear fox
stiff shard
#

yea yea the weapons i understand doing more damage, i thought you meant silver vs gold coins

clear fox
#

yeah, in the dungeons and dragons campaign setting for Curse of Strahd, silver is worth more than gold for this very reason. That would be neat to see in Dark and Darker. Yes its a 'lesser' value to us, but to the adventurers it could be more valuable. In game I find gold far more often than I find silver. Just a simple suggestion, no need for salt.

plain knot
#

I wonder if they will add any more ore into the game for mining and whatever. Like a silver/gold one

clear fox
#

I'm certain they will, rubysilver was just a tiny test. I expect eventually there will be mushrooms and herbs and other stuff to collect

plain knot
#

Yeah I think a way of unlocking the ability to make potions would be pretty hype. Or some way of creating your own store front other players can buy from as if your a trader. I’m just excited to see how and where the devs take the game. It has a lot of hype and a decently sized community for still being in Play-testing stage

wintry forge
opaque shore
opaque slate
#

this channel has been shit recently Skull

agile condor
#

Lol you mean there hasn’t been like any trolling? 😅 pretty sure you can find specific discords for that

fast prism
#

#d-and-d-suggestions message @ornate gyro this suggestion wouldn't work well at all as the super stacked teams would just camp the exit portals all game the circle barely does any damage at all idk why people want it removed

smoky yoke
#

from the dev Q&A

Q: Can we expect a toggle for things like crouch?
A: This is required. We need to do it slowly.
@fast prism
basically yeah, if there will be, it will be certainly optional and we can either enable it or disable it

wintry forge
smoky yoke
#

i'd like to have the ability to keybind specific items

#

i'd example use M4 and M5 for potions and torches
the side buttons of the mouse
which i actually use but it does cycle through 3 slots
it doesnt select them precisely but i guess it might be also game design

open ermine
verbal marsh
#

yeah, my gaming keyboard and mouse let me rebind. Though it is QOL to do it in-game.

fair copper
#

If anyone has any suggestions on how to fix my teleport suggestion please let me know.

tawdry musk
#

????

open ermine
fair copper
#

My post was removed for a bad word

#

I think it was h e double hockey sticks

#

What i was trying to say is i made it so the high spell slot and randomess would be too rng for people to rely on it

#

But thats my take. Teleport around the map does sound op

agile condor
#

I just don't think something like that fits the game much at all

open ermine
#

yeah it can be and with rng that brings the issue of it's either going to be insanely op or useless especially if you need the same spell slots for it as chain lightning

fair copper
#

Makes sense

agile condor
#

Can it teleport you outside the circle? Can you walk back through it? Can others use it? idk just so many questions that either make it terrible where noone will use it, or overpowered, I don't see any inbetweens

open ermine
#

maybe instead of as a spell you could add a magical artifact to the vendors or w/e since they want stuff like that, 2 of the same like portal rocks and you can set them up for a 3-5s portal to go between to setup locations

fair copper
#

Thats for the devs to balance out! I just threw the idea of a teleport and see if it sticks

agile condor
#

Yeah, just don't see it fitting this game in how I'm thinking about it currently

fair copper
#

Alright its settled then. Thumb it down 👎

#

In fact, mod remove my suggestion

agile condor
#

I actually think it if wasn't random there might be more of a chance for it & figuring out how it would work

fair copper
#

Please

#

Burn it down

agile condor
#

lol

fair copper
#

Its too bad of a suggestion

#

Kill it!anguish

open ermine
#

too powerful

agile condor
#

I mean you can leave it, it's a legitimate suggestion and maybe it'll spark an idea of a dev

open ermine
#

right they might be able to figure something out since they do apparently intend to add flying

fair copper
#

No cap? 🧢

#

Flying?!?!

agile condor
#

Like I could see pillars in the zone that only wizards can open portals from 1 to another

open ermine
#

"Q: Will there be a flying carpet?
A: I am very interested in letting players fly. " lemme reword that sdf is interested

#

and there isn't any shortage of flying things they could pull from D&D so that could end up hilarious seeing levitating barbs or cleric sprouting wings, druid bird form etc

agile condor
#

As a ranger, I was to ride of the back of an owl or hawk

fair copper
#

I just want a bag of holding in the game EyesShake

somber wind
#

I personally dislike this suggestion but I'd like to give my reason why so people can understand why anyone would dislike this: #d-and-d-suggestions message

Currently with it being a bit fiddly to pickup smaller objects it makes it take just enough time to make it stressful if the circle is closing and makes it much harder to smash and grab; this is very good for 2 reasons:

  1. It forces players to make hard decisions about greed when being chased by the circle, players or running out of time with enemies getting closer (this last one matters more for solo players but is for sure a nice tense feeling).
  2. The game economy has less of the currency flowing in, I would argue if the hitboxes were made larger the worth of all treasure items should be lowered by 1/3rd.
fair copper
#

We gotta take into account the dungeon is narrow so idk how mounts will work

pliant halo
#

Yeah, make rangers even more op making the only way to kill someone by shooting them

somber wind
agile condor
fair copper
somber wind
#

I'd be fine with Bag of Holding as a 1/25,000 drop from Bosses (any Boss).

open ermine
fair copper
#

How much storage would a bag of holding use

somber wind
lucid pivot
#

Yeah I don’t think weight system is necessary, we have a grid system already

fair copper
#

I don’t mind weight system on armor and weapons but for the loot in my bag? Naw

lucid pivot
#

Just need to remove it. I don’t even pay attention to it. Don’t think it makes much of a difference

#

Just could be a little annoying that’s all

pliant halo
somber wind
# lucid pivot Yeah I don’t think weight system is necessary, we have a grid system already

Weight system is not needed, what would be a better way to try and balance having the ability to swap out for larger bags or having extra bags is having all bags that are larger than default have a movement speed modifier for just having it equipped similar to armor and all extra bags do the same. Bags smaller than basic bag that aren't extra bags should also increase movement speed since it's lower than default.

fair copper
somber wind
# fair copper Nooo

They're saying Armor already does, it did in t he previous test too. That's why you'd see mages wearing nothing sometimes.

open ermine
#

being naked is optimal compared to default

somber wind
#

and for the same reason why Mages would wear the Skeleton skin often

fair copper
somber wind
#

Free magic resist

#

Armor doesn't matter if you're not getting hit

#

so only Magic and Arrows matter

#

Slap on haste and now arrows are a little bit easier to deal with

#

Something I'd really really like to see since so few media have them and the ones that do I just love messing around in

#

I'd love to see Raven/Crow Folk and Rat Kin races

#

(Not for furry reasons, not a furry; I just think they're badass looking in most media that have them)

#

(I would want them both to be really aggressive looking like Rats from Warhammer or Crow people from Dark Souls)

#

Rat Rogues would be hilarious

#

Ratkin;

  • Increased Jump Height.
  • Slightly Increased Interaction Speed.
  • Decreased Debuff Time.
  • Darkvision (Light blinds you but you can see in the Dark).
  • Bear Traps are harder for you to escape.
  • Spike Traps deal double damage to you.
  • Gas deals 25% increased damage to you.
  • Makes a very audible rat snickering noise when they discover (look at or open container with) Purple or higher rarity that can be heard a decent distance.
#

Just a thought

#

So in exchange for basically being a better Rogue (if you decide to be one) you become worse against Rangers, environmental and give away your position when looting.

#

4 upsides, 4 downsides.

#

well technically 5 downsides

#

because the Darkvision blinding you in lit areas or people throwing torches at you could screw you

pliant halo
#

Broken

open ermine
#

we're probably gonna have to just wait till their next race option they put in to see exactly how racial differences play out

somber wind
#

Literally setting up a campfire should probably make you completely flashbanged until you leave the room or look away

#

@pliant halo I think the Darkvision really balances it

#

With how bad it would be against other players that know you're there

pliant halo
#

It complete kills all gameplay

open ermine
#

i imagine the first set of races will end up being the standard Elf/dwarf, skeleton was a nice surprise so whenever those happens i think we'll see if they intend to do anything more than slight stat alterations

somber wind
#

How so?

#

Dwarf already confirmed to not be happening

#

anything with varied height

pliant halo
#

Map is always lit

somber wind
#

they'll exist in lore

#

but not ingame

somber wind
#

and there's a ton of dark spots

pliant halo
#

Wasting time to extinguish everything just to see and then get blinded by torches. Rofl

somber wind
#

I see your point but I was more thinking light intensity would affect how bad it is

#

and how quickly you get blinded

#

Idk maybe I'm leaning too hard into the lore side

pliant halo
#

I mean there is no point to even discuss something like this. Will never get implemented

somber wind
#

So?

#

The idea is to talk about races in general

#

Expanded races instead of

#

-20 Armor

pliant halo
somber wind
#

+10 Magic Resist

#

LUL ight troll got it

somber wind
open ermine
somber wind
#

But we do know the current rule is no height variance

#

It was in a Q&A

#

I'll try and find the Q&A

#

on a stream I mean

open ermine
#

ah ok i'll look through that

pliant halo
#

They won't even give different height variants and you're talking about vision

somber wind
somber wind
pliant halo
#

Obviously. As is the fact that lighting and vision is the single most important thing in this game

somber wind
#

There's subverting levels then subverting players.

open ermine
#

bit borish but understandable

somber wind
#

Nah I get it I do think it'd be bad for varied height, imagine having a tall as hell elf and trying to melee headshot it

#

or how almost every hit will headshot a dwarf in melee

#

There would be either too many upsides to it or too many downsides to it

#

and would require reworking of the headshot system or even the removal of it (for melee) OR the upsides of the races would have to be ridiculous so it's not worth it

wintry forge
wintry forge
fair copper
#

A bad suggestion is still a suggestion!

visual goblet
#

so question

#

was there a faster way to pickup items from dead player inventory than shift double click?

#

i dont remember what key it was but i remember double clicking things (as faster than drag and drop) but didnt like double clicking and rather would have had a key + one right click or something

smoky yoke
tawdry musk
#

shift right click was definitely better

smoky yoke
clear fox
#

To build on Trevor's suggestion about different modifiers on weapons, not just + stats. I love this idea. Uniques that can shape an entire build such as a ravenclaw bow that shoots exploding arrows from Diablo 2.
Weapons that knock enemies back
boots for quiet footsteps or higher jumping
shield that reflects spells
throwing weapons that return to your hand
That sorta stuff. Fun mechanics.

scenic kettle
#

it could lower the amount of noise u make

#

but complete silence would be wild

clear fox
#

Yeah they'd definitely have to balance it by being extremely rare or have it only work for a short time or something

visual goblet
#

not sure if was already suggested but when you have an item in your cursor and you try to place it somewere where another item, ideally it would switchbetween the 2 instead of nothing happening

#

like in diablo 2

wintry forge
#

@robust mauve I like your suggestion, but it's weird it seems yours is getting up voted. I suggested the same thing and it was down voted.
#d-and-d-suggestions message

robust mauve
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

wintry forge
#

Maybe it's because I said "skill" instead of "perk".

smoky yoke
#

@wintry forge nothing has been confirmed so far about circles, only some comments about but we will see in future

smoky yoke
wintry forge
smoky yoke
#

but not sure why rogue would have the ability to see in the dark, does rogues can see in the darkness in dungeons and dragons?

smoky yoke
clear fox
#

Or a fun property for a unique helmet to have

smoky yoke
wintry forge
wintry forge
smoky yoke
#

there's nothing much, we need to wait and see how it will be the game in the final release i guess

smoky yoke
smoky yoke
#

and I like that they are aiming to make the game not BR

wintry forge
smoky yoke
untold badge
#

Has anyone suggested or entertained the idea of 1 more row of slots in inventory?? This would allow you to fit 2 armors vertically and just make a very nice quality of life change…. It just feels extremely hard to warrant carrying out some armors because of the space they take up

smoky yoke
#

i think there might be some bag system in future, but we will see 🤔
some backpack system perhaps

untold badge
#

Also is there any other class besides bard that the company has confirmed? New to the community and haven’t seen anything but I also didn’t scroll all the way up in every channel.

#

Or an eta for bard @smoky yoke

smoky yoke
#

speaking of other classes, no news
but if you look in some of the official concept arts of the game, it hints also to some Druid, it seems like, but we will see in the future

open ermine
untold badge
#

Awesome thanks guys

smoky yoke
untold badge
#

Any info on the bard itself? Or artificer

smoky yoke
#

i don't think there is an artifcer lol
but not much info yet

untold badge
#

What would an artificer class look like? I’m drawing a blank… what comes to mind when you think of that? Like for bard I think music and instruments

#

Well what would the A be after the obvious bard on that list?

open ermine
untold badge
#

Someone should suggest this I’m on a timer… if anyone agrees throw it up there

#

make the spells default not speced into for wizard and cleric… data shows it’s so mandatory that it’s a waste of a skill option because you have to take it every time. Extremely limits class diversity amongst the same class.

open ermine
untold badge
#

You don’t have to spec into bow for ranger or sword for knight so why do you have to spec into spells for a wizard?

#

I mean I get it but like there’s my reasoning… ^

#

A wizard doesn’t really have an actual skill… he has attacks (spells) like a ranger

#

Wizard is already the worst starter kit and second least picked class and the second squishiest class in the game. I understand the wizard with gear performs well but it doesn’t change the fact that the majority of the community views them as bad or lacking or unfun

clear fox
#

Actually, I think most people see that wizard is truly overpowered. A literally naked wizard can wipe geared groups. They have a steep learning curve but wizard skill ceiling is the highest in the game.

untold badge
#

That or give them a 4th skill like every other class in the game one that can compete with meditation

#

I mean I agree with that statement entirely @clear fox but the stats show a lack of the player base using wizard.

#

If it’s so overpowered why isn’t it the most used?

#

Any other game despite learning curve usually the overpowered class is the most used.

clear fox
#

Because the game isn't out long enough for most people to discover this, but I think most veterans understand this to be true.

smoky yoke
#

most of wizards were not using "wizard" to its true potential

#

even myself, i had difficulty cause sometimes i move when i use the magic missiles lol
And then i waste a spell

rocky oar
#

Almost all fantasy games are like this. You always see more people go melee or even ranger like classes over magic classes.

#

I for one am a huge Warlock player in any game that has Warlock as a class.

clear fox
#

Yeah fireball can 1 shot most classes in the game and magic missile can melt even the tankiest chad. Invis+ignite makes wizard a better rogue than a rogue as well

rocky oar
#

A lot of people don't care whether their class can't compete against another class. They just want to play their favorite fantasy class and have fun with it even if they are getting dogged on.

wintry forge
untold badge
#

What if they reduced base dmg of all spells and put more emphasis in the gear by increasing the dmg of book crystal rarities, example. Currently a rare book increases magical dmg by 3 instead make it 7 and reduce all spells base dmg by 5 dmg. Obv I’m just throwing out numbers but I don’t think wizard should have the advantage they have being completely naked and extremely not gear dependent at all

open ermine
untold badge
#

I just want them to scale like other classes… someone start the suggest I’ll upvote

#

Make them scale of will more and reduce base dmg

rocky oar
#

I do think TTK is too fast. Either overall dmg needs to be decreased and/or gear needs to be scaled down. People are able to one shot too easily with just greens so what's the point of having anything above a green unless it's your weapon.

untold badge
#

Or scale of the weapons that cast

clear fox
#

Totally agree with you TTK is way too fast. No one should be able to get 1 shot ever. Looking at you felling axe.

#

yes if they reduced MR for pve and increased MR for pvp I think wizard will be balanced

untold badge
#

Or have health be increased on more stats than strength but at a smaller rate… if you put on a green armor increase health slightly and so on? That way having armor has more value

clear fox
#

right now you can cast 4 chain lightnings on zombies and not kill any of them

rocky oar
#

This is not just a magic issue btw. Rangers, Wizards, and Barbs can do it with just a little bit of gear.

#

Lol, zombies have the most amount of health out of any mob that isn't a mini-boss or boss.

clear fox
#

Still chain lightning is a huge spell

rocky oar
#

Also, fireball does more damage and so does magic missile.

clear fox
#

Really you have to blow most of your spells if you want to kill pve, it's shocking how long it takes to kill stuff

untold badge
#

Wizards need to rely more on gear, atm they don’t rely on gear at all which is why you can run around naked and make the crazy plays

rocky oar
#

Your supposed to be using magic missile and get headshots dude

open ermine
clear fox
#

agreed MM is too strong lol

rocky oar
#

Like bro

#

What are you doing?

untold badge
#

I mean I just use the gat and I kill 2 mobs easily

clear fox
#

and it does meditate back pretty quickly so it should be your go to

untold badge
#

Gat = magic missle

rocky oar
#

Listen

open ermine
untold badge
#

Mm really only works against completely oblivious players or mobs

#

P sure it was 2 in general

rocky oar
#

If we are talking base gear. Everyone takes a long time to kill stuff but, Wizards can still do it the fastest with MM. If we are talking about with gear, more than likely you will have knowledge and knowledge also makes your meditate go by really fast the more you have in knowledge.

mossy ruin
untold badge
#

I definitely think a naked wizard is miles above any starter kit in the game but also a wizard full of purples is scary too… so reduce base dmg of spells and make it scale to the same level as before with purples and legendary would make it better than currently

mossy ruin
#

The problem has already been talked into the ground and suggested and im sure very well known by the people who need to know. Magic Missle scales too well, and they have too much uptime on ZOOM+Invis

rocky oar
#

Lol yea. I've seen the same convo a dozen times already

untold badge
#

Oh sorry didn’t know

mossy ruin
#

Its fine, we all agree wizard was underplayed but overabused by who knew how to play it well.

untold badge
#

Just hope they make the correct adjustment and don’t nerf them into the ground it’s already an under favored class

#

Is there a change log between the play test somewhere?

rocky oar
#

They won't be nerfed for awhile anyway my guy

#

They already said balancing isn't a priority

untold badge
#

Rather be nerfed sooner than later cuz it’s my fav class haha

#

And I want to nerf it

#

Rather have it nerfed to a point of balance so I can learn how to play that version than nerfed later when I’ve already mastered the op version lol

rocky oar
#

They will do very minor adjustments at most and bug fixes such as Ignite working with spells but other than that, they are just trying to develop the game.

untold badge
#

Well what have they added? I don’t see a change log anywhere?

#

Hard to see progress if you can’t see what’s changed

slate tartan
#

The game isn't even out yet

rocky oar
#

That's just how it is man

open ermine
#

search sdfs tag with "changes" most of the stuff he posted i think is in the announcements channel, actually i think all the fixes/changes are posted there

slate tartan
untold badge
#

@open ermine thanks man exactly what I was asking. @slate tartan that isn’t what I asked at all. I said changes between play test.

wintry forge
#

From what I've seen, devs always post changes with an update, not before it. They'd probably just rather give us a list of changes at one time.

slate tartan
untold badge
#

Yeah already got it thanks tho

slate tartan
#

There's a good chance alot of it won't be relevant come the time the game is actually out so there isn't much point in reading them now, but by all means go for it

low flare
opaque harbor
#

Really???

#

My bad then I guess lol, just seemed excessive

low flare
#

it would be better if they could do a make your own vc, but I think that was lagging the discord when they used it

opaque harbor
#

Ah righty, that makes sense I suppose

opaque shore
low flare
faint dirge
#

Same

opaque shore
faint dirge
#

Do you have to be friends?

opaque shore
#

Not entirely If you're using groups

#

Your friend can add their friend

faint dirge
#

Makes sense

faint dirge
agile condor
wintry forge
upbeat pewter
#

The devs stated soloQ will be an absolute last resort. I doubt they are close to that yet

wintry forge
upbeat pewter
#

They are always thinking about something. Thats their job.

#

Its a problem that needs solving for sure, but soloQ hopefully isnt the answer.

#

I dont really think its that big of a problem anynore though.

wintry forge
lusty wren
upbeat pewter
#

Its a problem that could be solved by joining a group.

#

Rather than soloing in a game intended to be a team game

lusty wren
upbeat pewter
#

The game does need better tools to group up though

white cliff
#

It needs better tools for grouping rather than solo queue developed systems.

wintry forge
white cliff
#

I mean yeah?

upbeat pewter
lusty wren
#

The point of playing SOLO is to overcome those odds

#

Otherwise one should utilize the games systems to find a group (Which sure the game lacks right now but im sure will not int he future)

smoky yoke
upbeat pewter
#

Most people complaining are playing solo due to being lazy or not wanting to team

white cliff
#

If the solo has the upper hand I’m assuming game balance went awry somewhere.

lusty wren
#

So now go watch MR YOLO play solo he does VERY well still

smoky yoke
#

i like the fact it is possible to go solo regardless of everything though

white cliff
#

There would be entirely different metas for Solo and Trios which would inherently cause balancing clashes.

smoky yoke
#

yes

gray vessel
#

There is simply no way to add solo only queue with out diminishing some aspect of the game

white cliff
#

Agreed.

smoky yoke
#

also solo players fighting other solo players
ill never understand that
why not team up? lol

open ermine
smoky yoke
white cliff
#

It’s also fun to have people to play with lol.

wintry forge
smoky yoke
#

sometimes i did nice games as solo
like defeating trios but prob just rng/luck

white cliff
#

Solos should never have advantage over groups.

smoky yoke
#

yes

white cliff
#

It’s a game designed around team fights.

lusty wren
smoky yoke
#

only thing i'd see maybe some type of leaderboard for being solo or duo but i doubt tbh

lusty wren
#

I like the idea of a SOLO leaderboard

white cliff
#

Sure why not.

smoky yoke
lusty wren
#

Very little work and ALOT of people would try to top this leaderboard

smoky yoke
#

Hoppsy vsHoppsy Hoppsy Hoppsy

pseudo wing
#

ratting is easier as solo which is an advantage. I bet they do add solo leaderboard eventually. what's the downside? it doesn't impact gameplay/balance at all.

smoky yoke
#

something i have experienced as well at least

#

like i have more freedom to walk as solo
while on a team it's basically different but prob because i never had a coordinated team perhaps

lusty wren
#

Ya, there are alot of situations where being teamless can help. Alot less noise can get the jump on people much easier

smoky yoke
#

yes

pseudo wing
#

also looting 2-3 rooms and leaving is sustainable in high rollers as a solo. even ignoring needing to find extra portals, u need to loot more/win fights in a group. for people bad at pvp but who have game knowledge I bet solo is easier than 2/3 man fights a decent amount of the time

smoky yoke
#

yes knowledge important
and knowing every class
so basically maining/trying all classes

#

and you know which class needs to be avoided as solo

#

when i'm solo i usually target solo clerics
yes solo clerics exist ShibaBald

wintry forge
#

I understand this game was originally designed around group play, but Ironmace is trying to make it more fun for solos, I think. I've died most of the time when I run into groups, and I think most players will have a similar experience. I know you're suggesting that the classes won't be balanced for solo queue, but that's why I suggested trying it in the playtest. I understand this point of view. It's just much harder as solo imo, from my observation. I don't know how Ironmace could make it more fun for solos without a solo queue, unless they give teams a handicap.

white cliff
#

They shouldn’t.

#

That’s your answer.

#

Not every group needs a pander, systems need to be developed so it’s easier for groups to be formed.

frosty creek
white cliff
#

Who’s message is this?

open ermine
white cliff
#

Ah.

visual goblet
white cliff
#

You like the gross gear score system?

#

Can you explain why?

hidden spade
#

I mean high-roller dungeons should be high-roller dungeons, not the scavenger dungeons

#

And they are this rn

visual goblet
#

because its true it felt anticlimatic when youre like purpled up and you ask for a geared team and you say <<lets put on some gear>> and then find out 1: your teammates are in grey 2: they get one shot by geared people 3: zero to hero players usually wish hard but in reality doesnt really happen

hidden spade
#

It might not be the gear score system, just something to prevent people from going naked into a highroller dungeon and scavenge for loot

#

Like not less that green/blue item in each slot

white cliff
#

Just increase gold sink.

#

Simple solution.

visual goblet
#

i just want to have some kind of way to make sure my team is not in grey if i dont want it to be, i dont care seeing grey wearers in dungeon, they usually all dead. I can tell when a purple geared team comes in cuz people in grey dont survive them

hidden spade
#

It was REALLY underwhelming when we went into the highroller dungeon and realised that it is even worse than default dungeons in terms of pvp

white cliff
#

🤨

#

What kind of wack lobbies did you go into lol.

hidden spade
#

Well I dunno maybe last day lobbies were that

visual goblet
#

ive had some good PvP but whenevr a grey wearer is involved hes a burden or an easy target tbh

white cliff
#

Did you decide to go into HR on the last day?

open ermine
white cliff
#

And are basing an opinion on a small sample size of games.

visual goblet
hidden spade
#

But there was usually only 1 kinda geared party and all others were naked scavenging for gear

visual goblet
#

were u a grey boi

white cliff
#

No lol.

open ermine
visual goblet
#

i think not!

white cliff
#

Those are free kills, I don’t want them taken away.

visual goblet
#

idc about noobs running to die at my feet, opening their inventory felt anticlimatic

open ermine
#

well that could be added to help prevent random grouping from getting duped i guess

white cliff
#

But yeah just add more gold sink so people feel like they need to bring in gear to make it worth it.

#

75 gold is nothing.

visual goblet
#

ill make a suggestion for a <<tavern>> <<before queue>> inspect and tbh would be a great solution for me

hidden spade
#

Those are not free kills, those are mobs that can just wait until you low and ambush you risking nothing and getting everything

#

The problem is that you risking literally nothing

white cliff
#

I mean you’re right there was no reason not to play Hr.

hidden spade
#

Like 500 gold price would probably solve this problem as well

white cliff
#

200 maybe.

#

Compare it to what you get out of it.

visual goblet
#

Oh theres a timer...................

hidden spade
#

You will get more out of it if there will be geared people in there

visual goblet
#

never notcied 2hours before new suggestion, can anyone make the <<inspect before queue>> suggesiton?

white cliff
#

I’m talking about gold acquired in runs versus the gold sink risk.

#

Not gear.

visual goblet
#

and im not talking to you?

hidden spade
#

Well but gear is gold

visual goblet
#

anyone?

white cliff
visual goblet
#

lol 😛

hidden spade
#

Guys

#

🥲

white cliff
#

Are we staying obvious things or?

visual goblet
#

i wasnt talking to you the first time : checkmate 🙂

white cliff
#

Well enjoy your six hour suggestion timer.

visual goblet
#

2:38 😦

#

if anyone wantsto make the suggestion for inspecting in the tavern before queuing up, ill upvote it!!! (ez thumbs)

white cliff
#

Why is that a problem?

#

Inspecting in tavern?

#

They can link gear in chat no?

rocky oar
#

Why does a suggestion have to be correlated with a problem?

white cliff
#

Because he’s previously stated it’s a problem….

#

I’m asking why.

hidden spade
#

There was literally no point in going to high-roller if you wanted to farm gear, lvl2 in regular dungeons can often drop purples and a lot of blues, whats the point in risking going high-roller when you can easily get the same gear in regular not risking being hunted by scavengers

rocky oar
#

Are these purples with the stats you want?

white cliff
#

There’s no point in not going into Hr because 75 gold sink is nothing when hr runs can net you 700+ gold per run.

hidden spade
#

Yeah but almost any blue is 200g

white cliff
#

A single good run makes up for almost ten lost runs.

#

Yeah I’m not planning on sitting in the trade window all day thanks, and 2x2 treasure it worth more depending on rarity.

rocky oar
#

90% of the time I found purples they were literally useless or had only one good stat for me. I spent the entire Alpha having to buy gear from trade.

hidden spade
#

I just dont get the point of high-roller then, in my mind it should be the place for geared people to clash, not just the "more effective gold farm"

white cliff
#

It was created so people wouldn’t get killed by leaderboard farmers lol.

#

That’s was a huge change.

rocky oar
#

I also rarely found anything above blue in normals so yall got some cracked out luck.

hidden spade
#

Dunno, we geared blues pretty decently 3 times in one day farming lvl2 regulars

rocky oar
#

That's wild.

hidden spade
#

Most of the purples were useless though yeah

rocky oar
#

I've bought almost all my gear in trade the entire wipe.

hidden spade
#

But they were selling good

white cliff
#

Did you complete a boss?

hidden spade
#

Nah we did not

rocky oar
#

I tried to so many times but people could not for the life of them do such simple mechanics.

hidden spade
#

We had a melee on our team and most bosses just killing melee

white cliff
#

You where running a full melee comp?

hidden spade
#

No, barb-wiz-cleric

white cliff
#

Pretty standard.

hidden spade
#

Yep

fair copper
#

Guys guyss

white cliff
#

Arguably the best comp.

hidden spade
#

Not good for the boss farm though

white cliff
#

Ranger cleric fighter. Very nice.

rocky oar
#

For reference, I know what I'm doing. I'm a veteran WoW CE Raider and I was Top 15 Wiz last playtest but, I didn't play for the last 3 days cause of IRL so I ended up falling off the leaderboard.

#

I ran Wiz Ranger Cleric

white cliff
#

In the second reset?

rocky oar
#

We would wipe lobbies a lot

white cliff
#

Or the first cut.

rocky oar
#

This last playest, 3rd playtest.

white cliff
#

They reset the LB’s.

#

During PT3.

rocky oar
#

They reset halfway.

white cliff
#

I remember it being on the last few days.

rocky oar
#

Nah. It was more than just a few days since the alpha was extended.

white cliff
#

It was originally supposed to go down Friday and it went down Monday instead?

#

Yeah I guess In a week play test that’s close to half but meh.

wary flower
#

@fair copper I upvoted your suggestion but I remember one similar some time ago.

fair copper
white cliff
#

Suggested a lot.

fair copper
#

Dislike it. Its a stolen idea

#

BURN ITanguish anguish anguish

white cliff
#

At least you didn’t say the hit boxes where broken lol.

#

Redundancy.

visual goblet
#

usually people dont really care but like sometimes you wanna highroller into lvl 2 and youre asking forbluegreen minimum just to be sure you get a shot at going lvl 2 after the pvping is done... the thing that hurts the most imo is EMPTY slots, which i saw a lot too

I think inspect mechanic in tavern is a +, and no downside whatsoever

wintry forge
#

Yeah, I don't really like the idea of grouping with randos because you don't know what you're going to get, and then you can get killed by your teammates.

hidden spade
rocky oar
#

I've never ran into that issue however you can probably report them to the discord and also, unless they play the same class or play something that can use some of the same gear, they won't even be able to use your gear. Just sell and that's it lol

visual goblet
#

thats a weak solution tho, why not have an inspect in lobby? all the code is already here

#

lemme paint you a picture that happened a couple of times:

rocky oar
#

I hate these "Ifs", I think it should just be in for the sake of knowing what your teammate is running really quick to determine what your team is gonna be cable of doing based of gear.

visual goblet
#

take 30 mins to meet the classes u wanted; then find out one exxagerated with his gear, and they say <<lets do a normal run instead so we can extract and make some money>> then im like <<UGH id rather HR, but since no gear, ima just leave discord?! and be a bithc>> nah im like ok lets go HR with you in greys and 2 other players with <<decent>> then another <<geared>> team rolls up and the grey just gets insta deleted
usually team comps are just looking for a cleric for LVL 2, ya know...

ruby fiber
#

as someone who hasnt played this just sounds like drama

rocky oar
#

There's always drama in all communities lol

#

It's enevitable lol

visual goblet
#

suggestion is what it means is it, criticism 😛

ruby fiber
#

yeah my criticism is the mechanic is fine you just have a weird team drama thing

hidden spade
#

But you haven't played =\

lusty wren
#

Gear does not make the player, ive seen plenty of white geared folks wipe fully geared teams

rocky oar
lusty wren
#

You are just as likely to get a shitter with great gear that gets insta deleted

visual goblet
#

yeah its not about skill proxy

lusty wren
rocky oar
#

Skill and gear are two different things. Don't mix that up.

visual goblet
#

if you make it about skill were gonna have a shitty conversation which classes brought up and stuff

lusty wren
#

Skill has just as much impact on "team mate gets insta deleted" as gear does

visual goblet
#

indeed, and people with less gear usualyl have LESS SKILL and i wanna to IDENTIFY those people and NOT QUEUE HR with my GG gear with them

#

simple

lusty wren
#

Nah gear score is cancer

visual goblet
#

no gear score

hidden spade
#

Well, I think it's safe to say that you're more likely to get deleted when you get 2-shoted, instead of 4-shoted 🙂

visual goblet
#

inspect

#

goddman proxy

rocky oar
#

If you want to do some very specific that requires higher gear, regardless of skill or not you are gonna need that gear no matter what. You won't know if they have the skill till after. Don't bother bring skill into this cause it is just gonna complicate things more.

lusty wren
#

Its what this type of thinking leads to

visual goblet
#

this is a sophism

#

you cant say <<lets not do this>> because it might lead to something catastrophic its a sophism, look it up

lusty wren
#

Sophism requires a false statement 😉

visual goblet
#

not necesarely

#

bunch of types of sophisms

lusty wren
#

😄

#

Ok lets move on

visual goblet
#

one is <<exageration of consequences>>

hidden spade
visual goblet
#

ignore proxy, hes a troll

frosty creek
#

yes i ignored him a long ago

visual goblet
#

you say <<dont bring skill into this>> he says <<lets bring skill into this>>

frosty creek
#

he is so rude to me also for 0 reason ? just rude becouse rudekid

rocky oar
#

I agree with Proxy, gear score is crap. We just need inspect and that's all.

visual goblet
#

so i think an INSPECT mechanic

#

is the best

lusty wren
visual goblet
#

why not? realism would be you could check the partys gear; also helps with newers players

#

proxy, dont talk to me please, i dont think your inputs are constructive in general

lusty wren
visual goblet
#

youre fishing for emotional reactions

lusty wren
visual goblet
#

ima block ur messages now

hidden spade
#

You are all saying its crap but dont say why. Is it because you played some mmos and didn't like the system? You realise that this is a totally different game and implementing same systems will lead to different outcomes?

lusty wren
#

You already can inspect in the lobby but that does not help much in this situation

rocky oar
open ermine
visual goblet
#

anyways, most people had IRL friends parties but i diddnt have that ALL of the time i wanted to play

#

and i wanted to go HR lvl 2 with a cleric, was hard to do sometimes

#

anyhow i cant make suggestions now but if u make a <<inspect in tavern suggestion>> ill upvote

wintry forge
frosty creek
#

@void oyster explain down vote ?

lusty wren
#

Sure I have no inherit problem with that. As long as that is the end of it. Gear score and such like that (as seen in the recent suggestion) are a bad idea

hidden spade
lusty wren
visual goblet
hidden spade
open ermine
lusty wren
# hidden spade Yes

Because its not a metric of anything meaningful. All it does is create artificial gates

visual goblet
# hidden spade Yes

Papashagod its true people dont like gear score in general, they think of it as Skill based matchmaking

hidden spade
visual goblet
lusty wren
hidden spade
#

Sure dude

#

😄

visual goblet
#

i just want a <<right click inspect>> i dont care if they try to swap gear real quick, let them try to fool me

lusty wren
#

Id rather a decent teammate that communicates well over a pleb in good gear any day

rocky oar
# hidden spade Yes

Gear score doesn't work cause any piece of gear can literally have any stat that is in the game vs. pieces of gear in MMOs being static. MMOs have a lot more scaling of gear to work with as well.

visual goblet
#

papa dont waste your breath, he wants to bring skill into this to talk down on you or something

open ermine
wintry forge
rocky oar
#

Yea we already said that

visual goblet
lusty wren