suggestion-discussion

[mortal carbon]

yes, we will get to them if you like

[ionic mango]

yup yup

[neon meadow]

and tomy and eryk and desolent

[ionic mango]

have some respect redacted

type my name with 2 Ms u rat

[neon meadow]

and 7 other people that saw the suggestion

Any way, how do y'all feel about multiple vendors that do not buy items, But sell things like, stat rerolls on b2 and maybe reskins on b3. The reskins would be for grey-unique items, and none of the vendors would buy anything. Meaning you would have to bring gold in to interact with them

[ionic mango]

the only thing im afraid for that

would be the min maxers walking around with +4 magical true damage on every piece of gear

and one shotting everyone with 2 ticks of magic missiles

but i dont dislike the base idea of it

[mortal carbon]

positives things, id say people can explore a bit more if they wish, tho within the time limit, it would give a incentive to kill the bosses so you can get to the next floor, either you help other kill it, or you fight over it, it would cause more pvp to happen, you learn the layout and know where to heard towards for extractions and not rely on rng.

[neon meadow]

But that would be expensive and you would have to actually get the roll

[ionic mango]

You can do all those things by requeueing after finishing ur run byuurn i dont see anything added thats worth enough to remove the pressure the circle brings

apart from incentives to kill the bosses, that i like

[neon meadow]

In addition, having to live through out the process. I think the traders would be static. So everyone could just rush that area and potentially kill anyone using the merchant. In addition, the circle may not allow you to use them at all, based on spawn

[mortal carbon]

if the swarm/circle stays, it should kill you much quicker than what it does, it feels pointless to keep.

[ionic mango]

more time to explore and more area to explore would cause slower games, + the fact that now u have 15 min to move instead of 2, so id rather keep the games fast and intense, than boring and long

and just queue again right after

@neon meadow id rather the trader have like 4 specific spots it could be on, and ud have to check some of them and be lucky

[neon meadow]

Just doesn't really sound like you have much experience in the game or in gaming in general. Or you're just too close to your own idea, we don't like it, most people that have seen it, do not like it either

[ionic mango]

to counter the argument u gave earlier of people camping the doors to the merchants

[neon meadow]

I'd be fine with either TBH. Random \ static merchant spawns

[ionic mango]

i also like the thought of like, going into his possible spawn point "please be here, please be here, YES"

[mortal carbon]

im just saying, the swam does nothing. thats why i dont see the point in having it in the game, unless it kills you within 2-3 seconds.

[ionic mango]

or the other option of course, better luck next time

[neon meadow]

To say the swarm does nothing is laughable at best, it quite literally forces PvP and people to leave safe areas

[ionic mango]

but if it does nothing, why are you wanting to remove it, we still dont get it

[mortal carbon]

you can run in the swarm for minutes, so idk man

that is the reason, it add nothing

[neon meadow]

We know, that you do not know

[ionic mango]

maybe ur a god gamer, and have legendary health potions, but for all the other players, its working as intended so idk

[mortal carbon]

health potions and bandage, aint that hard

[neon meadow]

We've explained several different ways how you're wrong. You just cannot think rationally

[mortal carbon]

as i said, if the sawm did more damage, it would even cause more pvp to happen, so why not increase the damage it does?

[ionic mango]

the circle isnt supposed to insta kill you, but if ur outside of it, wasting all ur potions and bandages, eventually youll have to meet up in the middle

[neon meadow]

Run through the portal for 5 mins then, run into a player that has stayed in the circle. tell me how u fair

[ionic mango]

and go to where the fights are at

[neon meadow]

Byuurn has nothing of value to add to the conversation of his own idea, just move on

[mortal carbon]

why cant you answer that one?

[ionic mango]

which one

ill answer it for you

[neon meadow]

I've literally answered every idea of you have put forth, you simply can't read or understand the words

[mortal carbon]

if the swarm did more damage, it would cause more pvp to happen. so why not increase its damage?

[ionic mango]

cause it also punishes people that had a unfair circle spawn, and had to fight a bit closer to the circle

the circle is supposed to punish you for being slow, not ban you from the game for being slow

there

[mortal carbon]

because you aruge the swarm "forces" you to encounter and pvp people

[neon meadow]

Final point, the swarm does enough dmg to force players to move to inner circles. Thus creating pvp, sure it could do more dmg and i would be fine with that. But it's not needed

@mortal carbon is in fact, a troll.

[mortal carbon]

i can still camp the swarm with healing potions

[rough vapor]

Can we stop talking about circle/static map? Not even close to a viable idea. Let's get back to the juicy invis conversation that happens everyday

Btw wizard invis requires foresight and prep to be effective. Also, some people complaining about melee wizard sneaking up on them. Oh no a squishy, turn around and one shot.

[ionic mango]

and risk your life by doing so, whereas on ur idea, ud risk nothing to camp that portal

@rough vapor what class do u play normally?

[neon meadow]

You can literally just stealth as a wizard when ever, there is no penalty to it and is an amazing get out of jail free card

[rough vapor]

Cleric, wizard, and fighter

[ionic mango]

i play barb and theres been times where im walking around not at full health, just from lack of heals

and a geared up wizard pulls up and 2 taps me

not was simple as just one shotting them sometimes

but they do risk a lot by coming melee, on the other hand they do way more dmg that a rogue if they can prepare and are geared

[neon meadow]

Rogue stealth actually requires a bit of planning, as you can't move without sacrificing, something either utility or dmg and you can only move a few steps

[rough vapor]

I could see that, but having healing is essential in this game. Having low health could come by many reasons including bad luck

[ionic mango]

whats the name of the spell u set ur weapon ablaze again?

[neon meadow]

ignite

[ionic mango]

i think the only problem with that meta was the scaling ignite had

ud ignite a grey dagger and suddenly ud 2 or 3 tap anything

[neon meadow]

TBH, i don't think that meta was an issue at all

[ionic mango]

never really bothered me much, but i could recognise how strong and abusable it was

[rough vapor]

Nerf ignite then, the invis provides interesting game play. I mean invis doesn't open doors lol

[ionic mango]

dont have any problem with invis

i like playing hide and seek with a wizard that i can only hear the footsteps of

[neon meadow]

Wizard is busted AF, as someone who played wizard every play test. It is by far the most powerful class, even without strong cheese like haste ignite invis

[white hinge]

Agreed. They should remove Wizard

[ionic mango]

oh no

look what the cat dragged in

[neon meadow]

IDK about removing it, but it needs some work

[white hinge]

Or maybe it costs $20 to unlock the wizard class and $5 for each spell

[ionic mango]

here it goes

[neon meadow]

@mortal carbon this is what actually trolling looks like

[white cliff]

I pocketed a top 100 wizard for a large majority of the PT, it’s an incredibly strong class for sure.

[rough vapor]

Here we go lol

[mortal carbon]

keep me out of this. ty

[ionic mango]

earlier today he suggested paying real money for each lvl up

[white hinge]

How did he fit in your pocket

[ionic mango]

im suprised mods talk about keeping an eye on chats nad letting that slide tho

[white cliff]

Have you not seen desolants suggestions?

[ionic mango]

yeah of course

the anti christ of the suggestion channel

[white cliff]

I swear they’re all the same people.

[ionic mango]

and beanz or wtv his name is

[white cliff]

I don’t have this guy blocked though, was he always trolling?

[neon meadow]

Just don't feed the trolls and they won't have any power

[white hinge]

You don’t like my suggestion downvote it you don’t need to call me names didnt your mother ever tell you not to say anything?

[ionic mango]

yeah, lowkey at first, not he just made it obvious

[rough vapor]

I have 2 dads sorry

[ionic mango]

@neon meadow or you know... impose the rule of "no trolling" in the suggestion channel like they said they would

[white hinge]

That’s okay

[neon meadow]

That would require thoughtful moderation

[white hinge]

Why don’t you apply to be moderator

[ionic mango]

doesnt sound like an impossible feat

[neon meadow]

Just not something that is currently available to us

[ionic mango]

But they keep saying it is tho, so something doesnt add up

[white cliff]

Even if one of us did, they’re debates between the wardens on levels of moderation.

[neon meadow]

Just think about the type of person that would choose that position and it tells you everything you need to know

[ionic mango]

elaborate

[white hinge]

You all sit here naysaying creative suggestions but what are you doing for the community

[ionic mango]

just as much as you are

literally 0

[neon meadow]

remember, don't feed the troll

[ionic mango]

he entertains me

its a mutual beneficial relationship

[neon meadow]

🤷‍♂️

[ionic mango]

well tbf its mostly desolent

i like popping into the suggestion channel and having a laugh every now and then

[white hinge]

Enough name calling I will report you. You have to be nice here

[ionic mango]

xD

[white cliff]

Ah I got to what you guys where talking about earlier.

Removing the circle.

[ionic mango]

lets hear ur take on it

[white hinge]

Make it a square

[rough vapor]

I disagree, should be a sphere

[white hinge]

No circle totally maims any chance of pvp

[white cliff]

Removing the circle would create slow gameplay, where people further have the ability to portal camp. The circle while sometimes annoying, forced interesting combat scenarios and fast decision making that gives player that dopamine spike they’re playing for and risking their loot to.

[white hinge]

Circle creates pvp encounters which is core part of the game. Makes no sense

[ionic mango]

glad we are all in agreement

[white cliff]

It’s been suggested before, and downvoted into oblivion every time.

[ionic mango]

what about the "room consumption" version of the circle

instead of a shape

[white hinge]

But maybe someone in the lobby can pay a little bit about $6 to turn the circle off for one game. Or premium members get one circle off every week for free

[cold gull]

i would like a pve lobby so i can grind som legendarys to go and pvp with

[rough vapor]

Positioning while the circle closed was key. I always tried to stay on the edge. The middle was doom

[ionic mango]

would remove those circles in the wall, and those times where the only thing inside the circle is 3 corners of 3 different rooms

[quaint ivy]

i think the circle is great, i do think the games should be 5 minutes longer though.

[white cliff]

Especially on hell.

Also if they’re going to repopulate each floor then for sure.

[cold gull]

we need Pve lobbys so we can farm in ´peace

[muted crag]

Circle important, but does it need to be a circle, or the darkness absorbing each room shape by shape?

[white cliff]

Are you real?

[quaint ivy]

that man said pay 6$ to turn the circle off lol, im done xD

[white hinge]

Yes but maybe only if you have the battle pass

[cold gull]

Ofc who wouldt buy it

[muted crag]

Your cowardice from us shall not be rewarded.

[cold gull]

yes i need to farm with my friends so we can get geared to kill ppl

[white cliff]

That’s the core loop of the game.

[muted crag]

skill issue.

[white cliff]

It’s gear risk.

[ionic mango]

Jkidd

[white cliff]

It would just become an arena pvp game at that point.

[ionic mango]

whats ur take on mine

[white cliff]

What’s up.

Oh the darkness thing?

[ionic mango]

if ur reading the right one yeah i guess

[cold gull]

hmm then we need a donate shop. So we ppl with good money can go ham and the poor will suffer

[ionic mango]

i didnt call it that tho

[white cliff]

Do you have an original suggestion I can look at.

[ionic mango]

meaning?

[white cliff]

Meaning I don’t know what you’re suggestion in specific.

In relation to the circle.

[ionic mango]

it was an idea that was circling around a week ago or so

[smoky yoke]

I think they may do something like, if you go in inferno maps as only 3 players left
it will find other people from other instance servers and it will create an unique server

so that you will always find people in inferno maps

[ionic mango]

instead of circle, rooms would be locked out or corrupted 1 by one closing in on the center

[white hinge]

He thinks the lights should get darker over time I think

[smoky yoke]

because usually in inferno maps they really do lack of people there lol
it seems like pve

[ionic mango]

and it would stop for like, only corners of each room being available and awkward ass circle placements

[white cliff]

Eh, I don’t want the circle ending in the maze every time.

The random element keeps it interesting.

[ionic mango]

@white cliff i didnt mean geographical middle, by middle i meant, where the middle of the circle would be

if there would be one

[white cliff]

I just think the circles fine as is honestly.

[ionic mango]

alright

[muted crag]

I have to agree with Tommy on this, the geometry of the map doesnt totally compliment a circular enclosure, but thats getting into nit picking.

[white cliff]

It’s more of a squeeze and less of a lockout.

[cold gull]

they should fix pay to summon stone on you

would be cool

[white cliff]

Whose alt account are you?

[muted crag]

its probably bean.

[ionic mango]

whoever it is, not as funny or orignal as the other trolls

[white cliff]

Can we have wardens start dupe ip-ing people’s account.

[ionic mango]

boring

[white cliff]

That would be fantastic.

[cold gull]

woh relax 😄

can i say my ides to?

[ionic mango]

of course

make them funny if ur trying to troll tho

🥱

[cold gull]

im not trolling

[ionic mango]

mhm

[muted crag]

Cap

[cold gull]

what am i trolling about :S

[ionic mango]

🥱

[muted crag]

player monetary influence of matches.

[cold gull]

it would only help ous to get the server going

more money = more devs

[muted crag]

Ironmace has funds, worry not.

[white hinge]

They need ongoing revenue

This is a constant content game

[muted crag]

Such shall come through regular means.

[cold gull]

make some small shops for next playtest

so we dont need to grind as hard

did anyone kill the boss?

[white hinge]

You can buy gold in RuneScape

[muted crag]

and RS is f2p

[white hinge]

It’s freemium

[white cliff]

They all parrot the same things, it’s a bit boring.

[white hinge]

Which is what I’m suggesting

[neon meadow]

adding more people to a project, tends to invite scope creep. Devs be come managers, new devs don't have a clear idea of the end goal. Etc

[white cliff]

The funny part is they never want to discuss their trolls ideas, how whales affect games, and how predatory spending further divides the community and kills games.

[lusty wren]

Some games require your discord to be phone verified to post in their suggestion channels for this reason

[neon meadow]

p2w gamers are bare minimum gamers. As they only partake in the smallest portion of the game, the very end. Which often errodes every other portion of the game for them to exist at all

[white cliff]

That gambling addicts, or children.

[white hinge]

I work 70 hour weeks i can’t play games all day

[boreal sun]

that's not everyone else's problem

[white cliff]

So when you have free time, come home and relax.

[white hinge]

I would be okay with some funny dances though

[neon meadow]

Which is why DnD is a good game, doesn't require some huge time invest me to get gear \ play

[white cliff]

The game shouldn’t be ruined for a good majority of people because of your personal decisions. It should be fun first.

Right, entirely moot point.

[white hinge]

I think it would be improved

[white cliff]

It’s a game with RnG gear.

[mossy ruin]

There is no benefit to p2w for busy people.

[white cliff]

I think it would be improved if the wardens banned the lot of you lol.

Disrespect intended.

[mossy ruin]

You just go in and die all the same. Whats the p2w features gunna do

[white hinge]

Fascist lol

[boreal sun]

at the end of the day, not every game needs to be for everyone

[white cliff]

Troll.

1 blocked message.

[boreal sun]

you can still enjoy the game in your free time, but inevitably some games will be more able to be enjoyed by people with more spare time, and that's not something that necessarily needs to be changed

either take what you can get or find a game that better suits your needs

[white cliff]

Time for you to go back to work instead of trolling in a discord channel, buh bye.

[white hinge]

No

[neon meadow]

Ya'll just keep feeding the same troll over and over

[white cliff]

Unless you’re just using several hours on a Thursday trolljng during your 70 hours workweek.

[white hinge]

I’m a discord mod

So this is my job

[neon meadow]

feeding the same troll, time and time again

[boreal sun]

that's quite the difficult job
smile

[mortal carbon]

i think they should add, so you only can play dark and darker 2 hours a day.

[opaque shore]

No politics please. Only warning.

[white cliff]

We get it, you’re so much high and mightier for not responding.

Doesn’t need to be said more than once.

[neon meadow]

Guy is a clear troll, and that was also name calling. Should def time out

[opaque shore]

It's okay to be annoyed by other users misbehaving, just no need to get aggressive.

[white cliff]

You’ll know when I get aggressive, trust me that wasn’t it.

[neon meadow]

Anyone reading that guys messages would see he's at best an instigator and at worse a troll \ spamming

[white hinge]

Noted

[white hinge]

This is name calling

[opaque shore]

Let's just keep the chat toxic free.

[white hinge]

Roger

[neon meadow]

Then time out the one individual causing issues

[opaque shore]

If there is something Wardens need to do, It will be done.

[white cliff]

Sure, keep the chat troll free and I’ll be happy to treat everyone like sunshine and rainbows.

[mortal carbon]

tbh, this is the suggestion discussion, so anything that has nothing to do with discussions of the suggestions should be removed. even this that i said.

[white cliff]

Y’all still haven’t banned the guy who was making sexist suggestions and racist ones, how many warnings does that guy get?

[neon meadow]

👆

[white hinge]

Please keep the chat about suggestions

[boreal sun]

this channel is 50% trolls
wardens haven't done their job

[neon meadow]

👆

[white hinge]

👇

[white cliff]

I could give you a clear cut list of names and examples and the chat would be 100% nicer, y’all wouldn’t ban anyone though.

[neon meadow]

👆

[opaque shore]

Everyone deserves a second chance, izhbozh seems to have agreed to keep the chat without politics.

@white cliff If you have any proof of your statement, gladly #discord-help by sending a DM to @hallow granite with evidence.

@boreal sun Just because someone is seen as a troll, that doesn't mean they should be instantly banned, in the case of a user causing repeated problems, #discord-help is your best bet. Make sure you have evidence before sending anything in.

[white hinge]

Love your work

[white cliff]

Generic PR response, not interested.

[boreal sun]

the real question is why the wardens don't frequent this channel and already KNOW who the repeat offenders are

I should not NEED to send a ticket

[white cliff]

I could give you pages of chat and it would be bated breath.

[ionic mango]

@opaque shore wb on the suggestion channel, where its been said multiple times by wardens that troll suggestions are to be deleted

[boreal sun]

if you're a warden you should be regularly catching up on these sorts of things

[neon meadow]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. the PR training and accountability dodging classes are strong with this discord

[white cliff]

We will time you out for saying skill issue, but not for racial slurs lol.

[opaque shore]

I do frequent this channel, but there's also many other channels I need to manage. It's human to miss some stuff.
As I've stated before, your best bet is #discord-help by sending proof of these claims.

Racial slurs are not tolerated at all.

[neon meadow]

also if you use or refer to a word that begins with Cl and ends with own

[white hinge]

I can tell you from experience that some suggestions are deleted. But a suggestion being downvoted doesn’t mean it’s a troll, if anything it shows what the people don’t want

[smoky yoke]

Even though we do understand your point of views, please do not discuss about moderation in public channels, it is against the rules. We are aware of the issue.

[mortal carbon]

".suggest [Keep #suggestion-discussion clear from anything but the discussion of the suggestions]" i cant make the suggestions, because there is a cooldown, what do you think about this suggestion?

[boreal sun]

what a goofy rule

[white cliff]

I’m well aware. Your other warden is instigating it.

[opaque shore]

Valid to me.

[white cliff]

It’s like a cop watching someone actively commit a crime and being like, nah it’s a subjective law sorry.

It’s like at that point just leave and let the citizens handle it.

[neon meadow]

Similar to police investigating police and finding no foul play

[white hinge]

It’s not that serious

[opaque shore]

@smoky yoke has already stated to not discuss about moderation in public channels. #discord-help is the best thing you should do If you have criticism about moderation.
This is the last warning.

[white cliff]

It’s an analogy, I’m not talking about literally.

[white cliff]

You’re right, and this is why we don’t interact with the trolls.

Anyways.

[white hinge]

Your politicising it and we were warned not to

[opaque shore]

Now let's get back to discussing suggestions. 🙂 👍

[boreal sun]

I come in here maybe 30 minutes a day, once every two days
and there's always trolls

[white cliff]

I’m good, ping me when you decide to leave lol.

[ionic mango]

based

[timber sigil]

in all seriousness I made a suggestion for the Devs to start releasing semi regular updates sort of like a short newsletter for us on the cord, go vote on it and tell me and them what you think

[ionic mango]

i dont think theres an argument to disagree with that tbf

[neon meadow]

I don't want devs doing anything other than development

[ionic mango]

nvm there it is

[timber sigil]

well found the argument @ionic mango

[white hinge]

Well aren’t they a small team? A newsletter isn’t a negligible amount of work

[timber sigil]

@neon meadow i completely get you point, but thats why the terms are bot hloose and non demanding go read the suggestion

think of term "newsletter" less literal more metaphorical

[mortal carbon]

graysun or luci could send out those news how the development is going.

[opaque shore]

I think sdf does mention roadmaps in the #dev-qna-archives

If you haven't checked it already, you should!

[neon meadow]

I did, I think the effort taken away from any dev time at all is what spirals into the current gaming culture we have now. We get updates that don't happen or are prolonged. I understand wanting the game ASAP and being given piece meal information, however I think simply leaving the devs to create is the best \ simplest option

[timber sigil]

he says its too early for them from what i read @opaque shore thats why think of these like touch ins with the devs

[white hinge]

Maybe people could pay for the newsletter to make up for lost dev time

[timber sigil]

It is the simplest option, i do not contest, but i also feel small updates twice a month arent crazy workloads, just a quick heres the priorities, heres how us the devs are doing as people, just small community building things

we dont want to distract, we just want a small peak at ironmace thats all

[neon meadow]

I agree, it's not crazy.

[mortal carbon]

im quite sure they all have a minimum monday meeting once a week and talk about how things are going.

[white cliff]

I think transparency is good honestly. If they’re striving to be anti-traditional company they’d do it. I mean they already release data which is more that can be said for most companies.

[timber sigil]

which me and many others love to pour over, god bless Ironmace

[neon meadow]

There is a limit with everything and simply saying your working on something doesn't make it a thing that happens. Example, cyberpunk. They worked on a open world and gave several updates. It was not an open world game or feel

[timber sigil]

and your right, we dont need promises hyping us up and stressing them out, maybe just small tidbits of what has been accomplished rather than what will be

[white cliff]

I’m a 3D artist, I understand the pipeline more than most people. You’re correct assets don’t just magically appear, they take time to implement. Being open could lead to disappointment either because they couldn’t fulfill what they where working on before which just adds to the toxic work culture, let’s push harder; no sleep get it done. Or they did finish it but it seems minuscule to the player base.

Fair counter argument.

[timber sigil]

i agree

[agile condor]

This would be much easier without all the insane troll suggestions

[opaque shore]

I do agree with this statement, we try our best to keep the chat and the suggestions free of toxicity.
That doesn't mean we should apply exclusionary laws against specific users from suggesting, everyone should be free to put their own 2 cents about the game.

[timber sigil]

even if those two pennies are wheat pennies unfortunately

[opaque shore]

Not all coins are gold coins, some are silver coins.

[timber sigil]

and we have been fighting for silvers removal XD

[neon meadow]

and some are wooden coins

[agile condor]

Then don’t expect the channel to stay on topic lol

[timber sigil]

smh^

[rocky oar]

Bruh

[opaque shore]

It would help If you would keep it on topic instead of saying It won't be. 👍

[rocky oar]

Everyone is in withdraw

[neon meadow]

Asking other people to do your job for you, is a certain way to make sure the job doesn't get done

[agile condor]

I’m talking about suggestions lol what?

[timber sigil]

gr8 b8 m8

[opaque shore]

Last warning. If you have issues with the discord or moderation, #discord-help so we can continue talking about Dark and Darker related content in the chat. 👍

[white cliff]

I wouldn’t interact with this person they’re going to start muting people.

Super inflammatory.

[white hinge]

You asked for moderation and ye shall receive

[white cliff]

Can we talk about the rogue buff that was upvoted?

I don’t think the way to nerf wizard is to buff rogue.

[timber sigil]

I'm on the nerf wiz inviz side, its too good of a tool

[white cliff]

I think they missed the mark on why wizard as strong in the first place though.

[white hinge]

Rogues don’t feel roguey enough

[timber sigil]

you either give me that invis as a rogue or take it from them

[rocky oar]

I think the the speed boost on invis should be removed and feel it out from their

[neon meadow]

rogue def needs something to feel more rogue like

[timber sigil]

personally i feel the ability to mad stack haste ignit and then invis is too much, even using ambush and weakspot together you wont pump near those numbers, if they became mutually exclusive of onvis we might be talking

[rocky oar]

It doesn't make sense as to why a single spell makes you both invisible and run 4% faster.

[upbeat pewter]

Rogue cant move much, but their invis does last over 10x as long.

[white cliff]

Yeah but then there’s a weird mechanic that isn’t explained about wizards not stacking spells but clerics can.

[neon meadow]

weakpoint and ambush will def do more dmg TBH. However, you can't spam stealth like wiz can

[timber sigil]

you think? maybe they become equal but your right def about the spamming

[white cliff]

You need to remember that nothing is explained, so weird arbitrary rules are confusing for new players.

[upbeat pewter]

I feel like rogue only needs the 10 steps as standard, rather than perk

That would be fine

[neon meadow]

this

perk should be some sort of invis haste

[opaque shore]

Like a passive? I agree

[timber sigil]

rather, make the perk now that give the ten steps exactly have the perk instead grant a move speed up while hidden

[opaque shore]

Being able to drink invisible pots and walking sounds nice for rogues

[mortal carbon]

remove invis from wizards, done.

[upbeat pewter]

That wasnt the point. Its more combine the perk and stealth together, no perk required.

[neon meadow]

wizard invis is fine, just needs to be nerfed a bit

[opaque shore]

[rocky oar]

We are talking about nerfing abilities. If you wanna nerf it by not allowing them to have more than one buff up at a time, then that's a different topic all in itself. It's important to keep consistency within a game cause why should Cleric or future spellcasters have multiple buffs but, not wizard? If they wanted to had Concentration into the game like DnD has where a spellcaster can only hold concentration on a single buff at a time, then that would be cool and it would balance all spellcasters around so that all spellcasters can't just stacks buffs like crazy.

[white cliff]

Agreed.

[upbeat pewter]

A perk to make movement while using pots is interesting though

[opaque shore]

Agree entirely, I love wizards being able to do invisibilty spells.

[white cliff]

Isn’t that what I typed but line three paragraphs shorter lol.

[rocky oar]

Ima be honest

[white cliff]

^

[upbeat pewter]

Wizard is fine imo.

[rocky oar]

It took my awhile to type that

so I didn't see your message xD

[white cliff]

Lol.

[timber sigil]

its just too much utility though @opaque shore a good wizard will never be out of position thanks to the 4-5 invis chain casts if need be

[neon meadow]

This

[upbeat pewter]

Its highskillcap for sure, but the invis works best on people who dont think

Its only 4s.

[white cliff]

But we agree nonetheless.

[neon meadow]

Even without ignite meta, wizard is the only class that can 1v3 toe to toe

[timber sigil]

contestable, but they have the easiest time with it

[rocky oar]

I think it needs the speed buff removed from invis for now and that's it. You don't wanna make drastic changes cause then the meta shift will be completely opposite and now your trying to balance something else.

[upbeat pewter]

Id like the speed moved to haste.

[rocky oar]

Just small changes little by little

[upbeat pewter]

Require 2 spellcasts.

[timber sigil]

agreed as well they said that balancing is not a concern atm

[upbeat pewter]

Buff haste, remove invis haste

[neon meadow]

I think u were on the money the first shot. Just like DnD, 1 concentration spell at a time

[white cliff]

People are normally casting invis haste ignite anyways.

[mortal carbon]

give wizard invis -60 move speed

[neon meadow]

just make it so u get 1 buff at time, the next buff cast removes the prior. just like @rocky oar suggested and DnD currently plays

[upbeat pewter]

DnD doesnt play like that though

[rocky oar]

Yes it does

Look it up

[upbeat pewter]

Concentration isnt on all buff spells.

[mortal carbon]

as another person said, some parties want to be able to buff 1 guy to the brink of explosion

[rocky oar]

DnD 5e Concentration

[neon meadow]

Dungeon and dragons definitely does, with concentration spells

[fair copper]

That would be funny.

[lusty wren]

Agreed, haste speed buff/invis speed buff creates a invisible fighter jet

[white cliff]

The games based on 3e.

[upbeat pewter]

It has an element of it, but not all buffs are concentration

Far from it.

[rocky oar]

Almost all spells in DnD that hold a buff of some sort on a person requires concentration.

[white cliff]

Also, with OGL 1.1 not using DnD elements is advisable.

[rocky oar]

Even debuffs.

[neon meadow]

hence the clarification

[lusty wren]

Did you see their recent commentary on this?

[upbeat pewter]

I mean, what i commented on was implying that it was basically all spells.

Which isnt true. There are plenty you can stack.

[mortal carbon]

if you really want to balance the invis from wizard, you either remove it, or you make so you are much slower while invis, or even a shimmer of visibility

[white cliff]

Why do people think wizard needs a nerf?

Because it can do what rogue can do 100 times better.

But, what makes invis strong?

Surprise, repositioning.

Nothing messes up a fight more than a rogue killing your cleric or ranger, or better yet a wizard fireballing or ignite stabbing your entire team.

[upbeat pewter]

Blink is a good example.

[rocky oar]

DaD will be fine. OGL shouldn't affect them since 90% of the shit in DnD they don't actually own. They don't own the class Wizard for instance.

[white cliff]

I swear it’s constantly changing.

[lusty wren]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1428-a-working-conversation-about-the-open-game-license

[rocky oar]

A lot of games have Wizards. Same with fireball and chain lightning

[lusty wren]

I thought it was a decent response

[upbeat pewter]

Imo, wizard is the class thats ik the best spot atm.

[white cliff]

True, I’ve read the ogl I know what it has claims to.

[upbeat pewter]

If things need changing, its the others to be brought up

Extra tools/options.

[mortal carbon]

the speed buffs and stuff that increases your speed is actually killing the game

[fair copper]

Glad no ones talking about cleric nerfs

[neon meadow]

Maybe, but wizard is by far the most powerful class

[rocky oar]

If it were to become an issue they could just change the name of said ability to something else.

[upbeat pewter]

Sure. But that was my point. Wizards are extremely fun atm

[lusty wren]

I mean every day of the last PT they broke their concurrent players record... So id say "killing the game" is a bit exaggerated

[rocky oar]

Cleric is in a good position

[upbeat pewter]

Why nerf and make them bad, when you can potentially bring the others up and be fun too

[white cliff]

Cleric is the best class.

[upbeat pewter]

Cleric is amazing atm

[fair copper]

Haha yes. Tell the masses cleric is not broken @white cliff

[lusty wren]

Cleric is far from broken

[white cliff]

Oh yes it’s weak.

It needs a buff.

[lusty wren]

Its one of the better tuned classes

[timber sigil]

@upbeat pewter because life is never simple, and balancing much worse, they might need to take the wizard down a peg if the others cant rise

[rocky oar]

Well, it's not broken lol. Wiz is the broken one

[fair copper]

They don’t know...

[lusty wren]

I think wiz would be fine with haste/invis not stacking.

[upbeat pewter]

The others can rise at this stage easily though

[neon meadow]

I don't disagree, but buffing the other classes would be quite difficult. For instance fighter was OP until the latest nerf on their ability to use bows

[lusty wren]

No reason to nerf it otherwise imo

[upbeat pewter]

Basically every class right now needs more tools

[white cliff]

AOE mobbing, drunken monk, insane buffs…etc etc.

Instant healing.

But hey that’s none of my business.

[timber sigil]

@lusty wren agreed, it all stems from the invis interactions

[upbeat pewter]

Fighter can have bows again imo. It wasnt stronger than ranger was

[mortal carbon]

the game is meant to be slow paste, and they need to make character slower if anything

[neon meadow]

cleric is fine, fighter is fine, rest need a bit more love and attention

[fair copper]

Rouge needs buffs

[mortal carbon]

that is why this last playertest stacking speed was meta, and that is why wizards were on the top of the leaderboard

[upbeat pewter]

Barb needs high impact, immediatepy strong abilities.

[fair copper]

I agree proxy

[rocky oar]

I will say, some of yall need to turn up your game cause a lot of people have the awareness of a potato and somehow don't hear someone running on top of you. You can still hear Wiz while they are invis.

[upbeat pewter]

Rogue needs damage nerfs, but better abilities.

Like a speed buff to leave the fight or something

[lusty wren]

When they are moving at mach 10 its a bit ridiculous.

[fair copper]

I listen to the pitter pat of feet slapping the floor.

[lusty wren]

Haste has a speed buff, and invis has a speed buff. NO reason for them to stack

[neon meadow]

I disagree, rogue's dps isn't too powerful. If anything, just give them more tools, because there current kit is only dps

[mortal carbon]

its not the feet that is clapping, its their buttcheeks

[upbeat pewter]

Rogue can relatively low gear one shot atm. Its damage is pretty insane.

[timber sigil]

@rocky oar i was a solo rogue, who never really struggled with wizards due to me doing the running up on, but ive seen the videos and gameplay its a bit much is all

[upbeat pewter]

I had one walk past me, i ambushed and i immediately died

[rocky oar]

And generally if they are running on top of you they about to start casting which will slow them down giving you the chance to get in their face and smack them but, most people are so slow to react even when I am literally melee range

[timber sigil]

most wizards i caught were having green tea and my poison for lunch

[lusty wren]

Not if they are ignite daggerin ur ass.

[neon meadow]

Maybe with a headshot and you have to literally have ambush and weakpoint up. Meaning they have to stealth and you have to walk up on them. That condition is quite high

[rough vapor]

I would argue Wizard has a higher skull cap thus more rewards when played well. A bad wizard gets destroyed. It is a tough class to balance for all players

[timber sigil]

the only wizard i died too no lie was a open knife fight with their ignite dagger, ate my shit up

[upbeat pewter]

Most classes in the game are melee though

So they will get close

[white cliff]

This.

[lusty wren]

This is true, but haste/invis is just too strong even with the higher skill ceiling

[mortal carbon]

the skill cap, use haste and invis, and dont waste spells on pve but use it on pvp

[rocky oar]

I think it got buffed due to not many people playing it.

[neon meadow]

The other melee class aside from rogue, cannot be 1 shot while a rogue has bad gear

[rocky oar]

People like playing the herpa derp smack people with big stick class in most fantasy games xD

Which I totally get, power to you

[upbeat pewter]

Absolutely. Rogue needa greens with +damage

And the good offhand.

Thats it

[neon meadow]

Not true at all.

[fair copper]

Wizard is a better rouge then rouge

[white cliff]

Yep.

That is very true.

[upbeat pewter]

Non headshot, before armour came to over 10 damage

100*

[white cliff]

Rogue needs less gear than most classes.

[lusty wren]

Agreed and this is all changed with that one small change of not allowing those spells to stack

[white cliff]

It feels week because base daggers are shit.

[neon meadow]

maybe on a test dummy with no armor

[upbeat pewter]

Yeah, though white offhand could get to 26

[white cliff]

I mean look at the leaderboard for rogue kills.

[rocky oar]

Rouges are ratsssss

[white cliff]

If a class is dominating most play tests, something is happening with the kill potential.

[upbeat pewter]

The green was 30

Part of it is that rogues require no skill to play

All the skill is positioning

[neon meadow]

also not true, epic off hands were 30+ greens were around 26

[upbeat pewter]

None to fight

[rocky oar]

Rouges are able to get at least one kill at the very least if they just rat out vs other classes

[upbeat pewter]

Depends on the offhand

[lusty wren]

Good positioning is a huge part of this game for every class

[upbeat pewter]

One was far better than the other

[rocky oar]

This is for like the average player btw

[white cliff]

I would say the skill ceiling isn’t very high period.

[fair copper]

I still want wizards to stack spells. Its fun

[upbeat pewter]

Sure. But rogues just click and hope, and outdps everyone with all buttons at once

[neon meadow]

The stilleto which was the best OH \ dagger period. Did not have that kind of dmg. You're seriously over playing what rogue had

[lusty wren]

Fun is nice, but bad balance is not. If you want haste/invis to stack at minimum the speed buff from invis needs to go away

[upbeat pewter]

Id love their dps steroid to rely on being in stealth for a while

Instead of being used as a dps cd

[neon meadow]

it already does?

[upbeat pewter]

No it does

[fair copper]

What they need to remove is wizards having the ability to not use crossbows and throwing knifes

[upbeat pewter]

You can use it the second its up midfight

And never go in stealth

[lusty wren]

So you think wiz needs MORE tools?

[neon meadow]

only for weakpoint aura, which is not going to 1 shot anyone

[fair copper]

Thats the opportunities of what i said. I’m saying remove weapons

[upbeat pewter]

50% in stealth and 50% weak point together are insane.

[neon meadow]

30% stealth

[fair copper]

Because i am salty a cleric can’t use range

[rocky oar]

I just wanna see more viable spells. Ice bolt is poopoo and so is lightning strike. Light is not used either

[upbeat pewter]

It was 50%

[neon meadow]

no it wasn't

[upbeat pewter]

Yes, it was

30% backstab

[neon meadow]

Wrong, i'm a rogue main bud. You've been wrong on almost every rogue ability \ weapon

[upbeat pewter]

5% dagger

[fair copper]

throwing knifes and crossbows NOT SPELLS @rocky oar @lusty wren

[rocky oar]

Yea fuck- that more spells

[upbeat pewter]

I have screenshots on my computer lol

[fair copper]

The light ball is cute

[upbeat pewter]

I did the math with a mate, so its all there somewhere

[fair copper]

More cool spells! Ability to summon a red shiny ball

[lusty wren]

I dont think I am following 😄

[upbeat pewter]

I imagine wizards eventually will be able to spec magic fully into specific elements.

[rocky oar]

The spells are bit scuffed cause I would never wanna run the double memory and not have meditate. I want to be able to carry more spells too so badly but meditate is way to important to not have

[upbeat pewter]

They will get way more spells.

[neon meadow]

Lets say it's they're both 50%, you're still not 1 shotting anyone but the support classes and you're only doing that with quite a bit of gear

100% of 30 dmg is 60 dmg and thats if the person is naked

[fair copper]

Man you guys got it good. Us clerics have to use campfires to refresh our spellslots

[mortal carbon]

100% of 30 is 30.

[lusty wren]

I like it this way. Gotta set time to chill with the boys at the fire

[neon meadow]

obviously additional 100%

[upbeat pewter]

×2.3 mod (50+50+30) brings you up to 90 damage with dagger alone
30 damage offhand plus a few +1 greens can bring damage up to 35 easily, or 40 on a budget.
Non headshot thats over 100 damage.

[fair copper]

But i do understand clerics spellslots are way stronger then wizard spellslots thats why we don’t have it

[rocky oar]

Lol probably because we spam our abilities way more to clear mobs where yours is used purely for PvP and Boss fights

[mortal carbon]

so you mean 200%

[open ermine]

just gotta accept the meditate+spell mem1 life

[agile condor]

Okay so what does everyone think, a $50/month subscription to finance this game? #d-and-d-suggestions message

[fair copper]

Good point

[lusty wren]

I dunno, most wizards I see are not really using spells in pve

[upbeat pewter]

And thats one hit.

[lusty wren]

except for the odd ranged skele here and there

[fair copper]

Finance?

[neon meadow]

it would bring you up to about 67 dmg not 90

[agile condor]

Yeah the suggestion is thinking everyone that plays pays $50 per month

[rocky oar]

I don't know why people think the game needs subs or micro-transactions to keep the game alive.

It's a indie company.

[upbeat pewter]

35x2.3=67?

[lusty wren]

This is clearly a troll

[upbeat pewter]

Oh, dagger alone. 30×2.3

[rocky oar]

Almost all indie company is pay once and that's it and it's because they don't need a lot of money since they are so small.

[neon meadow]

where is this 2.3. Because if you did 30 * .5 *.5 you're not getting 90

[upbeat pewter]

Yeah, you're right, im tired.

[boreal sun]

dagger swing speed is quick enough that after the first stab, you're likely to get a second or third stab in too

[upbeat pewter]

4am.

[boreal sun]

you might not ONE shot

[upbeat pewter]

But the math was solid.

[boreal sun]

but they're dead in 1 second

[neon meadow]

Think i just proved, infact the math was not solid

[upbeat pewter]

Yeah, lol. I think that was my point to my mate. Before armour it onehits

[fair copper]

I mean is there a gaming company that does $50 dollars a month subscription?

[rocky oar]

There was a point where I was able to one shot headshot people with fireball which was funny

[upbeat pewter]

The math i did before was solid, not here lol

[rocky oar]

It was the most geared I ever was

[upbeat pewter]

4am math is hard.

[neon meadow]

facts

[upbeat pewter]

But like.. if you're so close to onehitting it ceases to matter. And thats non headshot

[agile condor]

Not yet, but maybe there could be - who knows!

[upbeat pewter]

Headshot is multiplicitive right? Not additive.

[rocky oar]

Uhhhh

[boreal sun]

iirc headshot is calced after bonuses yes

[rocky oar]

I have 0 idea

[neon meadow]

that's simply not true, because you're not going against many naked and +dmg in any form is not "budget" even if it's a green. In addition that is a rare affix

[boreal sun]

headshot is multiplicative

[upbeat pewter]

Yeah, thats what i thought. I wanted to test, but my 100 hours had entirely instant start games lol

[lusty wren]

Do you know the dmg calculation DaD uses?

[upbeat pewter]

Actually never had a chance to test on dummy

[boreal sun]

the only additive thing is the "bonus damage" you get from perks

[upbeat pewter]

I tested it last playtest

[neon meadow]

In full gear, the combo hit on a stilleto can do insane dmg. But that's the third hit

[upbeat pewter]

For the 2.3x

[fair copper]

I guess

[boreal sun]

if you had backstab and dagger mastery it'd be 35%, not 5% and 30%

[neon meadow]

the 2.3x number is completely invalid and should be disregarded

[upbeat pewter]

I dont remember which dagger it was off the top of my head.

2.3 is 2 abilities and backstab

[boreal sun]

but that 35% would be multiplicative with headshot and phys damage bonus

2.3 is valid

I have the same number from my own sources

[neon meadow]

the highest flat dmg dagger was the rondel, followed by the stilleto\castillion

[lusty wren]

No way anyone thinks 50 bucks a month is a good idea. Its a clear troll

[upbeat pewter]

I have a screenshot somewhere of a 29 or 30 damage green offhand dagger

[neon meadow]

Show the pic, because i 100% do not believe that

[boreal sun]

base damage x phys bonus x 2.3 (ability/perk bonus) x headshot bonus

[upbeat pewter]

Im not on my pc, so cant

[neon meadow]

epics had less than 30. so a green with one is ridiculous

[boreal sun]

ambush, backstab, and weakpoint adds up to 130% bonus

[upbeat pewter]

2.3 does not include headshot.

[lusty wren]

Trust me bro is a fine source, so no worries 😄

[upbeat pewter]

50 weakpoint 50 stealth perk, 30 backstab

[boreal sun]

^

correct values

[neon meadow]

which all requires position. a few seconds of buff up time AND being behind the target

[boreal sun]

yeah I know

but the number is still valid

[upbeat pewter]

Stealth gets you positioning.

[neon meadow]

partially, because you have to position yourself first

[upbeat pewter]

I just hate that rogues can run at you and button mash though

[boreal sun]

it's situational but it can still happen

[upbeat pewter]

Yeah, not arguing with that.

[fair copper]

Yeah i had a feeling. I trusted the server booster too much..

[neon meadow]

#allmelee

[boreal sun]

and like I said, if you don't die in one hit, they swing so fast you'll likely die before you can retaliate

[upbeat pewter]

Yeah, though my entire argument is that rogues should have to earn their damage, rather than run and smash keys

[rocky oar]

Well wait a minute

[upbeat pewter]

And yeah, if they are close, it may as well be one hit if you still cant swing in time.

[neon meadow]

They do though, you have to 1. be in the right spot, 2. be behind someone. 3.) make ur move in literally less than 5 seconds

[rocky oar]

How is that different than a Barb and Fighter just going reeeee and running in

[fair copper]

Thoughts on the new suggestion about the bi-weekly news from the developers? In one hand i’d like to see some progress and maybe sneak peaks on specific things but in the other hand I don’t want them to be bothered to give us information if it distracts them

[boreal sun]

they don't have the same level of dps or speed

[upbeat pewter]

Or run at them, run i circles and hit buttons and they die in 2-3 hits when you use all abilities the second you're behind.

[neon meadow]

then you lose 80% of ur dmg

[upbeat pewter]

How?

[neon meadow]

no ambush \ back stab

[boreal sun]

tbh I think the other melee classes need more range to give them a bit more advantage against rogues

[rocky oar]

Last a check a barb with just some gear will legit one tap to the head

[minor pond]

Anyone else think the 8-health bandage should get removed? just give us the 10 and call it a day

[boreal sun]

yes

[upbeat pewter]

Ambush doesnt need you to be in stealth.

[neon meadow]

to activate it

[upbeat pewter]

It happens the second you click the button

Whether you keep running or not

[neon meadow]

You can't get ambush without leaving stealth and you only have 3 seconds of the buff being up

[upbeat pewter]

So use it whole attacking

[boreal sun]

even if rogue is not using any damage boosts and does 30 damage base

that's still a 4 hit kill on fighter, with a weapon that swings fast and can easily dodge shields

[upbeat pewter]

It works.

[neon meadow]

Ok, you still lose back stab then

[upbeat pewter]

They also recover faster than shields do lol

[boreal sun]

and the fighter cannot run away

or swing fast enough to out DPS

[upbeat pewter]

As i said, run at them, activate all buttons when you're behind.

[boreal sun]

so it's all moot

[upbeat pewter]

Start swinging immediately

[boreal sun]

if the rogue wins the DPS war, the fighter lacks the mobility or range to outplay the rogue

[neon meadow]

Not really, as the fighter will just turn and smack the rogue. Negating the backstab

[upbeat pewter]

Id love a huge stun on shield block when using 1h weapons or daggers

[lusty wren]

I never had a issue with rogues as a fighter personally

[boreal sun]

redacted

I said no buffs on rogue

if they're hitting 30 unbuffed and swing as fast as they do, there's little you can do if they're in your face

[neon meadow]

There is no stealth \ hitting a target while both are moving. Not without the target stoping or being very slow

[boreal sun]

flat damage on daggers is a problem

I said no stealth, no buffs

[lusty wren]

Swing and hit them 😄 they are paper thin

[boreal sun]

if you can't one shot them you lose

[neon meadow]

not even close, falchion does 50+ dmg flat

[upbeat pewter]

The ambush buff goes up the second you hit stealth whether you go invis or not.

[boreal sun]

and they swing 2 or 3 times for every 1 of your swings

and move much faster than you

[neon meadow]

still only takes two swings to kill a rogue

[boreal sun]

how many stabs can they fit in those two swings

[upbeat pewter]

They kill you in your first tho

[neon meadow]

if they block a single strike, you've lost the fight

[upbeat pewter]

Blocking against rogues is useless.

[neon meadow]

You're never going to 1 shot a fighter as a rogue

[upbeat pewter]

Rogue recovers before you can swing

[boreal sun]

rogue is + on block?

[cursive kayak]

weapon mastery perk needs to be changed only reason to use it is for bows keep the -20% for bows

[boreal sun]

lol

if that's true, that's goofy

it's already hard enough to block a dagger

[neon meadow]

If the rogue gets blocked there goes literall all there dmg buffs, why wouldn't you block it?

[boreal sun]

redacted

I said

no buffs

lol

[upbeat pewter]

Yeah, this is assuming no buffs

[neon meadow]

no buffs = no crazy dmg

[boreal sun]

30 damage per swing WITHOUT HEADSHOT

[upbeat pewter]

Rogue still outdps's

[neon meadow]

you're doing less than 30 dmg a stab with any armor on

[upbeat pewter]

Not crazy damage,but still more.

[lusty wren]

Why even bother blocking against a rogue? Just kill them, lol in a head to head they die so easily

[upbeat pewter]

Longsword is the best melee for fighters, yeah?

[neon meadow]

this

[upbeat pewter]

Assuming you can accurately hit them running at light speed

[neon meadow]

lmfao

[upbeat pewter]

Rogues at their best dance range

The second you miss they attack

[lusty wren]

As you guys keep saying "just spam left click" your speed is reduced and a fighter with speed buff is easily making up the difference

[boreal sun]

let's say dagger does 25
and falchion does 50

assume the dagger swings twice per second and the falchion swings once

if the dagger attacks first and you don't start swinging with your falchion until they've hit you once, they will land 4 stabs before you can land 2 swings

[upbeat pewter]

Spam left click assumes youre hitting. Fighter doesnt have time to turn and run

You have 2 seconds to land a hit or die.

On a guy dancing around you.

[lusty wren]

If you are spamming the button sure, but then just reposition and slaughter them. Its not that hard especially when you speed buff urself while the rogue is speed nerfing themselves by spamming left click

[upbeat pewter]

Not caring where they hit, because their damage is huge

[boreal sun]

"reposition"

[neon meadow]

in which case the 4 stabs do sub 25 dmg and your falch will do almost the full 50. meaning you have 4+ stabs you can tank before dying

[boreal sun]

I'm saying that's their damage post armor

don't change the equation

[upbeat pewter]

And thats no abilities btw

Straight dps, the rogue does wau more.

[cursive kayak]

idk bout u guys but rouges have been preety easy to deal with as a fighter

[upbeat pewter]

Its not even close.

[neon meadow]

sure if they get the jump on your your equation is right, any other scenario besides that. not so much

[lusty wren]

Agreed, VERY easy

[upbeat pewter]

Rogues with base gear dont count. They literally have the worst gear of all classes

[boreal sun]

like it's an undeniable fact that daggers have the best dps at high rarity, and that dps scales more and more with more flat damage buffs

[lusty wren]

Even if they catch you off guard ive never had a issue to turn around and slay them 😄

[boreal sun]

it's hard to compete with a rogue unless you can guarantee a oneshot

[neon meadow]

idk about fact, falch can 1 shot rogues to the head. No rogue can 1 shot a fighter

[boreal sun]

yes but if they can 2 shot you before your swing happens

it doesn't matter

[neon meadow]

false

[boreal sun]

I said if

if that is possible

if that happens

[neon meadow]

2 shot can only happen in a specific scenario

[lusty wren]

You are basically assuming the fighter stands there and lets you kill it 😄

[boreal sun]

I'm assuming they swing at the same time and the dagger swings 2x faster

lol

[neon meadow]

if they swing at teh same time both first hits happen at teh same time

[boreal sun]

swings have startup yknow

you are

objectively wrong

[neon meadow]

meaning the rogue will only get a max of 3 hits by the time the second hits on the fighter

[lusty wren]

Again you guys are assuming the fighter is bad, by just standing in place and swinging its sword 😄

[cursive kayak]

do u guys not strafe while u fight?

[lusty wren]

Fighter has the reach advantage and if the rogue is spamming its attacks its moving much slower and isnt going to be able to close the gap nearly as well

[neon meadow]

the scenario is a person that cannot move \ see

[boreal sun]

I'm assuming a dps check where both players swing at the same time and both are competent enough to hit consistently

adding excess variables doesn't help the conversation

[lusty wren]

Ya, its a flawed way of thinking about it

[boreal sun]

we're talking about rogue dps and daggers being strong here

[lusty wren]

The game is not rock em sock em robots

Its not standing still and dps checking

[boreal sun]

it basically is if both players are point blank

[vestal thorn]

If you watch a lot of VoDs people miss a lot with all weapons including dagger.... so it's not fair to really balance a class on how it performs strictly against a target dummy. IMO

[boreal sun]

and one isn't fast enough to run away

[lusty wren]

Its a dishonest argument

[neon meadow]

face to face, a dagger will be on the third swing while the fighter with a falchion is 2nd swing is in air

that 2nd swing is a death shot to the rogue and the 3rd isn't for the fighter, niether is teh 4th

[boreal sun]

as I said
if the dagger swings first, they'll get a 4th hit while the 2nd falchion swing is in the air

pay attention

[lusty wren]

I highly doubt the devs are balancing based on two classes staring at eachother not moving and swinging their weapons

[neon meadow]

I've been telling you taht is false

[lusty wren]

😄

[boreal sun]

do you have the exact speed

[neon meadow]

niether of us do

[boreal sun]

because I've given you a theoretical speed I'm working with

[lusty wren]

Theoretical speed 😄

SO you are making up numbers

and using it to justify

[neon meadow]

which means nothing, TBH

[boreal sun]

if the dagger does swing 2x faster then objectively it will hit 4 times if it starts up first

I'm

[lusty wren]

As I said dishonest convo

[boreal sun]

talking in theoreticals

because that's all we have

[vestal thorn]

The reason this isn't a fair comparison is that in this context you're allowing the rogue the first hit via positioning/stealth/surprise

Which is 100% true and always going to be overpowered in this case. Similar to going first in a card game.

[boreal sun]

if you don't want to engage in that honestly then why even respond

[lusty wren]

They are also assuming weapon speeds, and assuming both people are doing nothing but standing still and swinging

It makes no sense

[neon meadow]

The problem is you're just throwing several other factors out the windo

[boreal sun]

I'm talking about a situation where a rogue ambushes you and you have no choice but to swing back or die

[neon meadow]

like, reach

[boreal sun]

reach is weapon dependent

[cursive kayak]

if u fighting a rouge as a fighter and ur strafing while fighting the rouge will miss more often because their attacks are stabs and faster while fighters slash and have more time to aim

[neon meadow]

getting ambushed is such a specific case

[boreal sun]

against rogue?

lol

[lusty wren]

What fighter weapon does not outreach a dagger?

[boreal sun]

most of them

[cursive kayak]

?

[vestal thorn]

In this scenario it's mostly gear and reaction speed. Which might seem unfair, but honestly is probably the way to go about it.

Any class lose if they always went second, mostly.** This is why it's huge benefit to being able to act first in any pvp setting.**

[lusty wren]

Ok you are trollin

[boreal sun]

most weapons in this game are stubby

[lusty wren]

Moving on 😄

[boreal sun]

it's a common complaint that barb axes feel like dagger range

[lusty wren]

#d-and-d-suggestions message
This would be cool

[boreal sun]

idk what you're on about

[neon meadow]

Getting ambushed means the rogue had to already be prepared. In any other scenario, the falch is going to hit before the dagger because of reach

[fair copper]

I ain’t clicking that

[boreal sun]

mostly, but rogue has the upper hand just because faster swing speed = consistent dps

[lusty wren]

LOL, its just the last suggestion made

[neon meadow]

You're only arguing for 1 scenario. Where the rogue is already prepared for the fighter to enter his reach

[boreal sun]

if a barb does 300 dps but only swings once every 2 seconds, that's a lot worse than a dagger that does 300 dps but swings thrice a second, yknow?

[neon meadow]

any other scenario, the rogue is likely to not get the first hit

[fair copper]

Ty

[vestal thorn]

While that isn't mathematically wrong, in real world practice people make a ton of mistakes to allow outplay though which is what most people here are going to argue. i.e. you aren't fighting target dummies.

[neon meadow]

roflmao, just pulling numbers out of thin air now

[fair copper]

The bi-weekly suggestion is a mixed bag

[boreal sun]

and a faster swing speed means mistakes are less impactful

[smoky yoke]

I can confirm it is safe.

[boreal sun]

it's still better for the rogue

[lusty wren]

Ya i think monthly would be fine just drop a little newsletter even every month would be cool

[lusty wren]

LOL thanks

[neon meadow]

in the scenario of the rogue being prepared. Yes, any other scenario the weapon with the most reach will our preform

[boreal sun]

fast weapons always have an advantage as long as flat damage buffs are prevalent

[neon meadow]

False

[boreal sun]

which they were very prevalent

objectively true

[lusty wren]

Especially when you make up your own numbers 😄

[boreal sun]

lol

[fair copper]

I think a monthly would help

[neon meadow]

factually false, you have no concept of the power of reach

[boreal sun]

I don't think you guys understand dps scaling

[lusty wren]

Says the guy who is making up numbers

[neon meadow]

DPS means nothing if i take hits just getting into range

[crude onyx]

if a barb hits you more times than you do as a rogue, that's a skill issue right there

[vestal thorn]

That's the balance of the class, due to dev class design. And they can still tune it with modifiers to flat damage being weighted on weapon speed. Nothing was set it stone yet.

Skill/gear/reaction being equal most melee felt pretty equal from what I saw though. This also includes rogues being able to 2-3 shot players because they have a jump on them because this was their class identity, and counter play was mostly due to the fact of sound ques/reacting accordingly.

Is it not 100% balanced every time? no, but I don't want to play vs only 1 class. I want at least the current class diversity to stay, so I'll deal with some imbalance.

[crude onyx]

sounds like you want everyone to play rogue lmao

i played barb last test but if nothing changes i'm hopping to rogue and never looking back

[pallid vapor]

I laughed at rogues on my fighter. My wizard on the other hand…

[vestal thorn]

Me? it's not and also these choices depend on your team or own playerskill anyway.

[crude onyx]

killing naked rogues proves nothing

[lusty wren]

Id love this, ill main fighter and get a bunch of easy kills 😄

[crude onyx]

till people learn to stack flat damage lmao

fighters beat ungeared rogues but lose hard to geared rogues

[pallid vapor]

What gives you the impression they were naked? Killed plenty of geared rogues

[crude onyx]

did they have +20 flat damage?

not geared if not

[lusty wren]

Right all of my rogues gear came from my fighter killing rogues 😄

[vestal thorn]

Kind of moot to argue for a pure 1v1 balance with devs saying it'll be balanced around 3's no?

[pallid vapor]

I’m sure at least a couple did. Fighter is just good against rogue. It’s the only class that is imo

U can 2 shot a geared wizard as rogue. It’ll take you at least 5 still to kill a geared fighter, by that time I’ve hit you 3 times in the head with my arming sword and you plop to the ground

[fair copper]

Anyone got any suggestions they would like to share? I already sent mine a few days ago

I have 0 thoughts in my head

[lusty wren]

What was ur suggestion?

[cursive kayak]

weapon mastery perk needs to be changed only reason to use it is for bows. they should keep the -20% for bows fighters are already sacrificing a perk slot to use other weapons no point in further nerfing those weapons

[lusty wren]

OH i found it, the light that sees invis. Not sure how much I like that one. But it has a decent ratio

[fair copper]

I’ll post it

[neon meadow]

most of this "math" is bound by a very specific scenario that doesn't play out in the real game without preparation. Which the more prepared opponent theoretically will always win

[fair copper]

Mhm mhm

[fair copper]

I am famous :)

[lusty wren]

Lol

[fair copper]

Now it will be flooded with dislikes, the perfect plan😎

[lusty wren]

I like the idea.... i just think wizard already has such a vast tool kit

[cursive kayak]

that perk should be for cleric imo

spell

[neon meadow]

Wiz probably just needs nerfs, not buffs

[fair copper]

High-key i agree. I want shiny ball of light. Even without the detect invisible

[fair copper]

You want to suggest it or me? Its your idea

[cursive kayak]

u can

[fair copper]

Ty i will give credit.

[quiet orbit]

May I just say... screw Hogwarts

[pallid vapor]

Why

[quiet orbit]

Dark and Darker comes first

Hogwarts can push their game out

[pallid vapor]

Fair. I thought u we’re gonna come in here with some cringe take

[quiet orbit]

nah

[fair copper]

Praise the shiny glowey ball

[lusty wren]

I absolutely love that you made the suggestion and downvoted it.... Biggest laugh ive had in a while

[quiet orbit]

in fact, if content creators would rather play that hogwarts game that leaves more content for creators who prefer Dark and Darker

[fair copper]

I don’t like the idea of taking and removing spells. But i also like the light ball

[lusty wren]

I dig it, Just made me laugh

[pallid vapor]

I mean thematically light is more of a cleric cantrip imo, but both classes can cast it

[fair copper]

Good point.

[neon meadow]

Just don't think having a light spell is really adding much to the game

[fair copper]

So isn’t extra dialogue from the merchants but people upvoted that.

[lusty wren]

What if standing in the light made your heals more efficient? 😄

[quiet orbit]

why is anyone taking Light ball when Torches are available

[lusty wren]

(I think cleric heals are fine as is. Just throwing the thought out there 😄 )

[fair copper]

Just because something doesn’t help you in game doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be add in

[neon meadow]

I would have said the same thing about that

[fair copper]

Because ball of light is radical

It ain’t all about the money spidy

[quiet orbit]

I have seen it, its quite bright, but it doesnt do anything a torch cant

[fair copper]

But its like.. cool

[quiet orbit]

Players that use skills or spells easily replicated buy an item thats for sale are thinking with their Grey-White Gear mindset

[pallid vapor]

You can cast a light ball much faster than a wizard can switch to torch, throw, switch back to weapon. A rogue will already have the wizard dead by then

Also rogues can pick up the light ball like they can torch

[vestal thorn]

Is there any reward for holding a heal (holding cast down but not letting it go off)? Some sort of +% heal modifier added the longer you hold a heal, to cleric gameplay is what I would argue for if not. This could also be too op though.

[quiet orbit]

there is no way it takes longer to throw a torch then it takes to switch to light ball, cast and switch spells back to an attack spell

[pallid vapor]

It 100% does take much longer. Wizard swap speed is miserable, and spell swap speed is purely player skill based there’s no time involved

Split seconds to swap to and from light

[quiet orbit]

I guess I dont know why anyone is walking into Dark corners where a rogue has obviously turned off torches

[pallid vapor]

That being said. Of course light is the most useless spell in the game right now. But it has its VERY niche uses lol, and it’s flavorful

[quiet orbit]

I'd have thrown a torch into the corner before I even got close

I think it is weak personally

I think Light Ball needs a buff

[steady cloud]

hi ?

what yall discussing ?

[pallid vapor]

Of course it is. That’s why it’s 1 point. It’s just like a, well I have 1 point left guess I’ll mess with light

[rocky oar]

The issue with light is that it has no room for it

[agile condor]

How much a monthly subscription should cost - currently suggestions are thinking $50/month, thoughts? Is that enough?

[rocky oar]

Why waste a spell slot for light when you can have another attack spell to spam through is the issue

[quaint ivy]

lol, there's that one video of like 6 mages meeting up and spamming thelight ball till the game goes to like 2 frames

[steady cloud]

60 is good i mention this earlier today

[lusty wren]

Yes, you can try to predict incoming dmg and hold the heal for it so you have an instant heal after a big shot comes in

[agile condor]

So $60/month - is there a box price too?

[steady cloud]

@agile condor

[quaint ivy]

What's @agile condor smoking?

[steady cloud]

60 also like world of warcraft

[timber sigil]

@quaint ivy dont interact m8 its what theyre waiting on

[lusty wren]

For being so block heavy surprised he is interacting with the known trolls 😄

[cerulean iron]

60$ a month is insane. 60box price 10$ a month like wow would be enough.

[steady cloud]

i think its good

60

[agile condor]

lol, mods want us to stay on topic and discussion suggestions such as these #d-and-d-suggestions message

[steady cloud]

whats wrong with it ?

its a SUGGESTION

not fact

[lusty wren]

So basically. "I feed trolls"

[pallid vapor]

Just a couple of the well known trolls in this discord. Block and move on

[steady cloud]

maybe discuss it ?

[agile condor]

Nothing, according to mods actually lol

[steady cloud]

its not wrong ?

[vestal thorn]

I get the whole pre-casting for damage, it just sometimes feels like for cleric the reward is prefight OR mostly as a heal bot as once the engagement happens your impact to the fight varies so wildly compared to what other classes can add.

Case in point wiz just casting invis+haste on 1 other person seems to be a touch or maybe a lot better? than Prot+pre-cast a heal type of scenario.

Now I'll agree that if you can reset a fight Cleric is a huge boon simply because it allows faster re-engagements. Just a thought I had.

[agile condor]

I tried man, really did lol

[steady cloud]

he suggest if u dont like it make downvote and move on ?

[lusty wren]

I mean cleric can bless/divine/prot. Then heal. those are very powerful buffs

[cerulean iron]

90% of people did so. So most people don't think 50$ is a good price. Let alone 60$

[neon meadow]

50$ would probably be fine, just game is only have developed

[lusty wren]

Tried to feed em? 😄 I see that. To each their own lol

[fair copper]

Torches are lamesauce. Ball light hip

[vestal thorn]

They are, I guess my feeling was cleric being a bit something more than a buff bot. But I guess that would be another class like bard.

[quaint ivy]

I'd drop upto 300$ for a collectors edition to support devs ~ But that being said i think 30-40$ box cost should be the normal cost ~

[steady cloud]

ok thx for input maybe u can ping him and discuss why he think this ? or u will just flame like @agile condor without even discuss ?

[lusty wren]

Ya, I see ur point. I did like to buff myself right after and join the fights to then pull back and heal when needed. But some fights were just better for me to be a heal bot after ya

[agile condor]

Nah, just threatened to be banned if I didn't discuss these suggestions rather than denounce them

[white cliff]

It’s clearly a sarcastic protest to what the warden wanted earlier.

[lusty wren]

OH! I was not aware

I must have missed that

[lusty wren]

I feel this is a great form of protest to that then! Continue!

😄

[white cliff]

Yeah, they refuse to deal with the trolls, but threaten to ban the actual people having conversations. Isn’t really new honestly.

[lusty wren]

Very true, its unfortunate

I think emba is normally pretty good about being rational and such (even if he has me blocked) 😄 Silly to threaten to ban him

[agile condor]

Ya'll going to get in trouble, back on topic, $50/month subscription - Deso thinks $60, is that high enough?

[cerulean iron]

@steady cloud I mean all I did was respond to your post arguing that "you thought 60$ was good" I responded to your logic. You didn't give any reasoning to argue against.

[steady cloud]

i didnt make suggest ?

[steady cloud]

60 is good

[white cliff]

Oh y’all are responding to Desolent, that makes sense.

[quaint ivy]

@steady cloud is that a warcraft 3 Icon for the archer?

[serene snow]

if your subscription expires without renewing then your stash should be wiped

[white cliff]

I love how the point the warden made was to interact with the trolls.

[steady cloud]

what ?

its dota character

[agile condor]

😄 the $50/month actually came from Darker (Geser), Deso was just thinking $50/month isn't high enough

[white cliff]

And then threatened to ban people who refused to go along with that logic.

[quaint ivy]

that's why it was familar

[lusty wren]

Ya its very disappointing

Especially when the person at hand is one of the more rational here

[white cliff]

Darker, Desolant, Beans, they’re all the same person.

[agile condor]

Even went through Mailmod to make a ticket - they don't care

[lusty wren]

Did they reply?

[agile condor]

Yeah saying there is nothing wrong with the posts

[white cliff]

I brought up how I could bring them a list of people, and a mile of chat logs but it would be wasted breath.

[lusty wren]

Gross

[lusty wren]

Sad day...

[agile condor]

Then closed the ticket for "No reason was provided."

[lusty wren]

OOF

[white cliff]

I got some from Ini that have slurs and sexist comments but they don’t care.

[cerulean iron]

@steady cloud I don't have any interest in discussing anything with you. It's obvious there is some sort of breakdown in communication . Either you aren't reading what I'm writing or don't understand what you are saying. Have a good one though.

[white cliff]

He just gets a time out.

[steady cloud]

👍

[white cliff]

No you’re required to keep on the topic of discussion.

Or you get banned.

That’s what the warden said earlier.

[agile condor]

So $60/month?

[opaque shore]

Yes we do. I have yet to see proof of your complaints in both my DMs or tickets.

[lusty wren]

Does this include discord immunities?

[lusty wren]

its in ur own suggestion channel

[cerulean iron]

@white cliff didn't say it had to be with him though;).

[opaque shore]

I will state it once more:
Having a bad opinion is not illegal.

[agile condor]

Dude you literally have prn games linked all over your linked steam account, relax, there are kids in here.

[cerulean iron]

No use in talking to a cardboard box.

[lusty wren]

Since when do discords only moderate illegalities? I have seen you guys time out people for things that are not illegal all the time

[fair copper]

Why do rouges run pickpocket? Its useless but a fun gimmick

[lusty wren]

To meme id guess

[fair copper]

Exactly. Hell ball of light is a meme spell and i still want it on cleric

[lusty wren]

No you dont, you downvoted it 😉

[cerulean iron]

@fair copper it would be cool if you could use it in the lobby with a big cool down and only steal stuff from their hotbar.

[fair copper]

That’s because i’m jealous of wizards having it

[lusty wren]

LOL!

[loud matrix]

I will downvote anything that suggests moving the light spell to cleric.
In any D&D game, it's a shared line of spells.

[lusty wren]

If its shared why shouldnt cleric have it?

[fair copper]

So sharing spells?!? BLASPHEMY!!

[loud matrix]

Because no one suggests that both should have it.

[agile condor]

With the $50 or $60/month subscription - would a box price still be needed? What about micro transactions?

[lusty wren]

I see, valid point

[fair copper]

Do you think the developers would add in shared spells??

[lusty wren]

I tell you what, id pay the 50 if I also got discord immunities

[steady cloud]

i hope they add battle pass and loot boxes and purchasable classes and skins and pets and especially dragon class

[fair copper]

Thats a suggestion