[Alice: Wonderland Bunny] New Unit Megathread

[sacred cloud]

ironically crit is actually pretty decent for sg

[proven wolf]

Crit is apparently good for SGs according to people

[sacred cloud]

imagine hitting cores to dilute ur crit dmg

good joke

[wheat ivy]

Do you think this piece makes me happy?

[loud leaf]

Yeah crits are good for SG units

[sacred cloud]

crit isnt top tier but its definately useable

[stable wasp]

attack damage, not ATK

[proven wolf]

It is pretty decent yeah

[sacred cloud]

like its no ele/atk but its better than def

[wheat ivy]

I'd pick 12% elem over the 3 lines combined

[proven wolf]

And lose so much CP in PvP?

[frosty solar]

Imagine if they released skills with ele atk up

[proven wolf]

Nah

[limpid dagger]

Maybe 1 ammo line is qol change

[wheat ivy]

ah yes pvp

GIVE ME NOAH AND THEN WE'LL TALK PVP

[limpid dagger]

Total lines matter?

[proven wolf]

3:00 minute mark

Tove has full stacks and sugar has 0

Haha

[proven wolf]

No, I'm just trolling xD

I mean
For CP they do

Eh, I'll tell u guys about CP another time

No, they're much more consistent and less rng than before

[scenic bison]

now all that matters is bosses

[plucky temple]

yeah ppl not recovering with this one

by the time this is finish more team will be avaliable

[wheat ivy]

FUCKING

[quasi ice]

lol

[loud leaf]

Huh???

[frosty solar]

By the time this is finished, maybe I'll have Laplace treasure finished

[quasi ice]

I spent 18 rocks on XLudmilla recently and am regretting it.

[toxic charm]

Why

[quasi ice]

BAlice doesn't need much ammo lines. Not like BSoda does.

If you have a proper Tove.

[scenic bison]

base balice is fine...

[floral silo]

35 rocks on balice

what

[limpid dagger]

Why 1 > 2 lines but reduce cp?

[quasi ice]

I accepted a Hit Rate roll on BAlice and am just GOOD with it.

[wheat ivy]

[proven wolf]

I'll explain later, but it should be easy to deduce dude

You're smarter than this

[floral silo]

tier 11 gives more cp than a tier 1 and tier 2 roll

[limpid dagger]

But its kinda bs when charge dmg give more cp than atk just because its higher lvl...

[floral silo]

thats the lowest stat roll for ammo and second lowest atk roll

but just reset attributes and you're good

[proven wolf]

Why?

What gives atk the right to be superior?

[scenic bison]

soda mpriv

[sacred cloud]

i havent recovered since i first invested tove

[proven wolf]

There is only

One superior roll

[scenic bison]

tove for ammo

[limpid dagger]

Cuz atk actually useful

[proven wolf]

@floral silo dyk which roll is superior?

[dapper owl]

1 ammo on tove 1 ammo on balice

you're done

[sacred cloud]

the same right that gives it a better spot in the damage formula

[quasi ice]

Tove needed them before because you needed to ensure she was building stacks with ANY consistency. BAlice makes it so you don't need it as badly.

[floral silo]

im a simple man, i see bigger numbers im happy

[proven wolf]

2b

[sacred cloud]

atk is still better than charge dmg for 2b

[lofty eagle]

What’s a b2 replacement if I don’t have Leona?

[wheat ivy]

any b2 buffer

dolla?

[dapper owl]

you reroll for leona

[wheat ivy]

You know what

[sacred cloud]

cdr and soda dont mix well

[wheat ivy]

just put crown

and ball

[sacred cloud]

because 15s burst and ur cdr puts u lower cd than ur burst duration

i guess its still not bad but defiantely a minor anti synergy

[quasi ice]

What if I had to steal Dolla's Tetra T9M gear because interception never gives me any Tetra gear?

[wheat ivy]

why would you even think about OLing dolla

[scenic bison]

still waiting for tetra headpiece since christmas to give xlud

[quasi ice]

I didn't. That's why she had gear to swap to BAlice. Kept at 5 and not OL'd

[sacred cloud]

so u can spam her for burst gen with ammo OL

and do circles with her

[wheat ivy]

put novel with b10

[proven wolf]

Isabel Vesti soda

U were saying?

[proven wolf]

Did u reset novel

She's dead now

[loud leaf]

No use for her now?

[sacred cloud]

what if thats the new hidden piece of tove team, isabel treasure making her buffs 10s + cdr with 5s full burst

[proven wolf]

Wellz not for him and me

[proven wolf]

At least my cope was based on some written info
Where'd this come from

[sacred cloud]

came from headcannon

[loud leaf]

Ah ok

[limpid dagger]

after min req, focus on dps first right?

[dapper owl]

eh, not bad. Worth the books

6/10 would not invest again

[wheat ivy]

Yeah

[dapper owl]

[timber sequoia]

Just use dolla isabel

Is it just me or sugar instead of balice get more dmg against iron weak?

But I believe heal needed

[silk basalt]

oh

is she just

slotted for the mpriv shotty team and that's it ?

[dapper owl]

she's another option for crown

[cosmic perch]

For me it's perfect cuz team 5 is so damn random

[turbid nymph]

S1 : Already 1 stack per 90 shots at lvl1

B.Alice is the savior of uninvested Tove

[cosmic perch]

who to prioritize after the minimum investment ?

ok. What about OL for the non dps

what is needed?

[turbid nymph]

Max Ammo
I don't think B.Alice get much from anything else

[limpid dagger]

why tove s2 lvl10 when 8-10 is the same?

[cosmic perch]

what about cube setup for the whole team ?

[proven wolf]

I don't think that's right

I was given
2/4/6/8/10

[proven wolf]

Wait yeah this is outdated

Prydwen on site has the correct one

https://www.prydwen.gg/nikke/guides/tove-guide/

2/4/7/10

[proven wolf]

2/4/6/8 was kisenix prediction

[main pewter]

110 pulls, only SBS

[limpid dagger]

Damn...

[turbid nymph]

120 pulls and got nothing.
I used 400 golden tickes for B.Soda and B.Alice

[main pewter]

rip, and I'm also contemplating on using mileage

Got like 610 atm

But summer is right around the corner

[proven wolf]

Eh, I'm gonna skip b.alice if I don't get her through pulls

Mileage is for summer

[turbid nymph]

I'm just Yolo for this SR
I don't think it's a good idea to use Golden tickets for them

[drifting prism]

Though summer is not gonna be the next update

[proven wolf]

Mileage is for
Waifu
Or
SSS

[main pewter]

Yeah.., on the bright side, we can wishlist her anyways

[ionic cloak]

Does B.Alice need any OL / OL lines?

[proven wolf]

Nah don't Reroll her
Otherwise aim for ammo

[ionic cloak]

Aight, thank you

[stable wasp]

B.Alice+Tove means that Tove can drop down to 4?

[dapper owl]

if you're talking about s1 lvl then no, get her to at least 6

[dapper owl]

I've been seeing Balice outperforming rapu in Crown comps

damage wise anyway

[limpid dagger]

Ofc... More ammo

[hoary shadow]

Oops wrong chat mb

[gilded siren]

what is your investments on soda skills/ol wise ?

[dapper owl]

I think that test was with ele advantage? Not sure, lemme check

yep ele advantage on Soda. Soda has a single ele line

both are on 4 ols

[gilded siren]

nice, 4/10/7 too ?

[dapper owl]

maaaybe

note that priv can still outdamage her on electric weak

my priv has 2 ele lines

my priv also have 173% ammo and bastion

it's funny seeing her never reloading with s2 ammo refund, bastion and balice

this is another test on metal weak

my soda's lines are pretty cracked

this is on electric weak

[sacred cloud]

rapu kinda sucks, 0 dmg support

[dapper owl]

tldr: bsoda outdamages mpriv

[sacred cloud]

atleast alice has b2

[rugged tangle]

Old

[dapper owl]

ele neutral

bad run, dropped stacks like once. Can be higher

[rugged tangle]

Who on earth makes this spaghetti code

It makes sense logically tho.

Now swap Alice with Sugar

[dapper owl]

I would be fucked becaues my tove's s1 is on lvl 6 and my suger is uninvested

[rugged tangle]

Ah shit now I rmb I was planning to reset MPriv and forgot fuck

Gotta wait for next reset then

[rugged tangle]

B Alice only helps with the attack speed

Not Tove stacks

[quiet schooner]

Tove's burst snapshot... ally's stack to give ATK, not Tove's self stack

that's so bullshit lmao

so, Tove with 3 stacks S1 and Soda with 0 stack

Tove gains 3 stacks ATK

Soda gains 1 stack ATK

[surreal delta]

lol so it's tover

[quiet schooner]

the Exodia was a lie

[surreal delta]

[quiet schooner]

SG is never meant to be good

[rugged tangle]

We all got scammed

[quiet schooner]

at least you keep that 42.24% AS

[rugged tangle]

Bru

[surreal delta]

why I pulled balice

[rugged tangle]

Bringing Sugar gives u more dmg fr

A fully invested XMica is probably better

[main pewter]

So, Sugar goes Ratatata?

[gilded siren]

thanks for the info!

[real quiver]

One copy is enough, right?

[rugged tangle]

0 copy is ok in my opinion but she will replace Rapu in Crown team.

[main pewter]

110 for only SBS

[quiet schooner]

also due to Alice, Leona will never run out of Tove's buff

fuck this shit

[main pewter]

So, shotgun cope is Tover?

[real quiver]

I don't have Tetra supporter helmet

[zinc cove]

Is she good as healer outside SG teams?

[proven wolf]

Yes

[zinc cove]

Thank you!

[proven wolf]

Think of her as a Rapunzel, who instead of having a revive has ammo support

[zinc cove]

Gotcha! I like her design and alice as a whole.

So i will use in my campaign mode

[real quiver]

My BSoda is lv 9 on all skills, should I stop investing in BSoda and move to BAlice instead? for SR.

[sacred cloud]

shift up

[real quiver]

What are OL for BAlice?

[dapper owl]

ammo, ammo and, ammo ig
nah go full def

[rugged tangle]

Doesnt matter

Not needed

[limpid dagger]

Tove burst is useless?

[dapper owl]

yeah, leave it at lvl 0

[limpid dagger]

Lmao

[quiet schooner]

fuck this shit

I have to drop a rant on main cord

[real quiver]

I see, so only need to upgrade to get HP stats for more heals.

[sacred cloud]

i would rather u overload tove for ammo tbh

atleast then u can stack ur s1 better for the non water units

[real quiver]

Tove writes in her diary: "It's day 400 and the SG comp haven't suspected anything..."

God, SG comp is damn expensive, it's literally a late game comp.

and not even the most broken

[dapper owl]

it feels expensive because it uses niche units that you have to invest in from the start

[real quiver]

Well, 4 NIKKE are lv 7 skills

I'm trying to get maximum investment

[dapper owl]

it scales rather well with investments

[sacred cloud]

it feels expensive but i think for day 1 players its gettin to the point where im edging on having enough skill books for everything

[dapper owl]

yep, it's good for vets

[sacred cloud]

im mostly missing sw buffers and a little more on tove team

[real quiver]

ShiftUp plan: "Yes, buy 30 days of supplies to get more skill books, all according to the master plan, muhahaha!"

[sacred cloud]

maybe in 2025 i can play with leveling my pvp units skills

[real quiver]

I'm bringing the SG comp into top 10 Arena

yeah, the comp is not that good in Arena...

[dapper owl]

soda is good for arena if you invest into her though

[real quiver]

hmm, if you replace MPriv, that can be good actually

[proven wolf]

Well, not really

Ideally you just use her as another drake

4/4/4 and slot her in as a buffer

[dapper owl]

what if I replace Noire with her?

[proven wolf]

Noir is better

Imo

Since she buffs Nuke

[quiet schooner]

it's so hilarious that Leona now has 100% uptime with that ATK buff + AS buff

[proven wolf]

Soda can't do that

[quiet schooner]

she hits like a freaking truck

may be the real DPS is actually Leona

[real quiver]

the real DPS is not Leona, It's Timi.

About SG comp, does anyone need LB or MLB?

[proven wolf]

No

Again, no unit EVER needs dupes.

Unless:

• you are hyper competitive
• want mlb screen
• that unit has favourite items

[quiet schooner]

[real quiver]

gasp
How dare you say that in front of my Crown LB 3?

[quiet schooner]

can't read

will ask anytime new unit released

[real quiver]

I asked for the whole comp

not for a new unit

[dapper owl]

just slap mpriv and soda into your wishlist

actually, do everyone but balice

[real quiver]

Look who decide to pop out of SSR mold

[sacred cloud]

time to OL ur leona for water ele and some ammo

then u can go slap the next water ele boss

[verbal field]

what OL stats do you need for each nikke on this SG team?

[quiet schooner]

[rugged tangle]

Why not Viper

[quiet schooner]

lacking rock

Poli Viper

[rugged tangle]

No b3 strat

Why need B3 when you have

5 waters right

[quiet schooner]

Balice Tove Leona Neve and Soda

Soda is there for the lack of cdr

other 4 carry

[rugged tangle]

That might deal more damage than PrivM

[rugged tangle]

Can you do a lock sync run

Neve vs PrivM

[quiet schooner]

sound interesting

[rugged tangle]

Nice long crits

[sacred cloud]

at that point arent u better off going like guilty + noir

instead of viper

where guilty keeps tove burst up for wind and balice does for water

surely everyone has perma ammo between tove s1 and noir/balice reload right

[dapper owl]

solo raid literally just started

[sacred cloud]

it doesnt really start until friday

[zinc cove]

Hmm i couldnt find in pins the should you pull review of bunny alice. Well i already pulled but my friend is looking for it

[quiet schooner]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/920857551669706765/1248116087539630111/image.png?ex=66627e30&is=66612cb0&hm=bc01288d60688e472548a953202f9e62430af25433ac82d8382e4824bb8183b1&

well Neve ain't gonna make it

wind boss so no ele adv on any1

[sacred cloud]

just 4 ele roll ur neve and use her on water weak

[quiet schooner]

[hoary shadow]

Wait so why Balice not work on SG team?,

[barren river]

Lol

SG still cope

[floral silo]

at this point i think the only thing that will make most ppl invest into a SG comp is a SSS pilgrim shotgunner

[slender arch]

bAlice on Crown comp can go as low as vanilla 1/1/1 no OL?
Or maybe ramp up S2 for stacking reload?

[sacred cloud]

balice on any team realistically only cares about her b2 unless u really need healing for the boss

[dapper owl]

s2

[slender arch]

Alright,
might use balice+liter+crown+b3+b3 this raid

Volume can go hang out with bunnies

[hoary shadow]

So wait what happened to the Balice shotgun team?

[dapper owl]

nothing, it's completed

[hoary shadow]

But is it not good enough for Balice to not go on crown team?

[dapper owl]

she has two uses, either pairing with crown or going into the SG exodia

[nocturne grail]

B3?

[rugged tangle]

Who named this sg exodia

[quiet schooner]

probably Kira

[rugged tangle]

Oh its skyjlv

I would argue Tove Marciana Sugar BSoda Guilty.

Wait just run PrivM at that point ye

[sacred cloud]

but if u run priv m u may as well run leona right

crit synergy + pellet on privm

[hoary shadow]

SG should just always crit by default

[timber sequoia]

Is there breakpoint for s2?

I do similar damage with Balice and Sugar

[tender raft]

imagine pulling for balice only for stove to burn the pot AGAIN

[rugged magnet]

"Late game comp" in this game means "4th/5th team for solo raiding"

it's obv not going to be as good as Crown or Naga comps

those 2 are just broken af, along with RH/Alice

[proven wolf]

Is it as good as bunnies tho

[real quiver]

I mean you have to play a lot to get skill books so the comp can function

[barren river]

or pay for it

[tropic trail]

so its worth to pull for one copy of balice?

[barren river]

im skipping

[rugged tangle]

Use my B. Soda sheet. Breakpoint varies from one person to another.

[main pewter]

So broken

[nocturne grail]

Is that real?

[main pewter]

Saw it on reddit

But yeah

[nocturne grail]

Jesus.

[main pewter]

[barren river]

What Alice said in background?

[loud gulch]

What can we accomplish with this minimum investment for this team?

[bitter mist]

Yo wtf

The stacks on Tove's S2 is getting goofy

She's getting more stacks than the rest of the team

This one has 2 stacks and the whole team has none

[quiet schooner]

that's expected

[proven wolf]

A working team that can do DPS without any major restrictions

As long as you have some ol ammo, you're good

[surreal delta]

introduces a boss that can apply hitrate debuff

[barren river]

Wait for water pilgrim shotgun guys

[slate hare]

nayuta will be our savior

[real quiver]

Kraken throw ink

[cosmic perch]

so from the 3 non dps what ol they want if any ? also cubes for the full team ?

[hearty forge]

Is there a bug with Alice/tove ATM?

Sky was going crazy over it

[dapper owl]

not from what I can tell. I'm heaviliy invested in

if you're talking about the stack desyncing, that's intentional

[hearty forge]

Gotta rewatch his vid

I'm super invested too

[dapper owl]

nah don't need to. From what I can tell, he's just confused on how the shartgun team actually works
those mechs are completely intentional

[hearty forge]

Tbh I have no idea how the team works to begin with

[surreal delta]

basically the perma 3 stacks on tove is for attack speed.
but tove's burst which gives no of stacks x 24% of caster's atk buff on SG allies still depend on tove's stacks on each ally and balice doesn't give those on non-water allies

[hearty forge]

So he thought its a bug

?

[dapper owl]

He basically thought that Tove's burst is based on stacks on HERSELF, not on other Nikkes

[surreal delta]

a lot of people was expecting that it depend on tove's stacks on tove

[hearty forge]

I see

Does the text explicitly say it doesn't?

[dapper owl]

The burst stacks MIRROR the amount of normal bullet stacks on other NIkkes
So if Bsoda has 2 bullet stacks, she will get two stacks of Tove's burst

[hearty forge]

Mhm

[surreal delta]

go try and interpret it

considering SU's track record with EN translations

[hearty forge]

Oh yea it doesn't say shit

[surreal delta]

it kinda does

technically

[hearty forge]

Well it doesn't say who's

[surreal delta]

actually nah

idk

so for now, just enjoy the attack speed SG goes pew pew

[hearty forge]

Whatever, shotgun team still good AF even with this right

[dapper owl]

yeap

[hearty forge]

I used 6k books yesterday on it

I hope I didn't waste my mats

[dapper owl]

losing tove's attack speed feels like shit. Balice solves it

[surreal delta]

well not having 72% of caster's atk on burst can kinda suck

it's a pretty high number

[dawn wharf]

good but u need to keep a track with stacks to get max stacks ATK % buff

[dapper owl]

it's 24% minimum

you get one stack no matter what iirc

[hearty forge]

Wait you need to keep track of things ?

[surreal delta]

it's actually 26% x 3 = 78%

[dapper owl]

.^

[dawn wharf]

keep track on your DPS stacks count

[dapper owl]

you'll want to burst only when your bsoda/mpriv have at least two stacks

[hearty forge]

Is there an icon for it?

[dapper owl]

ideally, three

yes

[dawn wharf]

the bullet icons

[surreal delta]

the hell you mean, stacks on your non-water SG units depend on tove's 2-5% rng

[hearty forge]

Anyone have a SS of it. I can't access game, if not its fine

A little bit of micromanaging won't hurt my soul ig it's fine

[surreal delta]

it's blue dildo tip

[hearty forge]

Blue bullet ?

I think I've seen it before

[dapper owl]

gonna check again, I swear you get one stack no matter what even when your b3 dpses have no stacks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyIPS9iZxew actually you know what, just watch this. Sky basically demonstrated it
you get one stack of tove's burst no matter what

[surreal delta]

there's nothing in the kit that suggest there's a guarantee of +1 stack on burst

[dapper owl]

and yet it does work like that

[surreal delta]

[hearty forge]

Classic shiftup

Mistranslations and fuckups again

[dapper owl]

basically it works like this
burst at:

0 bullet stack: 1 tove burst stack
1 bullet stack: 1 tove burst stack
2 bullet stacks: 2 tove burst stacks
3 bullet stacks: 3 tove burst stacks (full)

you only need to watch for the stacks on your b3s
you CAN drop the bullet stacks after tove bursts, you just need a higher amount before she does

[karmic fable]

I don't have Tove. Do I skip both bunnies?

[dapper owl]

if you have crown, you might want to consider getting balice
she's an upgrade over rapu

[karmic fable]

Rapu?

Rapi? I do have Crown though yes

[main pewter]

Now that you mention it..

[karmic fable]

Oh, Rapunzel? I have her but don't use her anyway

Rapunzel's 60 second burst is just too long, and she doesn't really heal Crown anyway

[dapper owl]

mate, you don't really know how things work at all

crown wants at least one healer to activate her s2

[karmic fable]

Me? Yeah I don't, I'm not a hardcore player and I'm only up to chapter 10

I don't have many healers either

Like, I can't really figure out a good way to heal Crown so I've kind of given up on that skill

Hm. I do have 200 gold mileage tickets

But I'm going to guess that, like most gacha games, you save for summer because a girl in a swimsuit is always top tier in gameplay

Plus the bunnies will probably be in wishlist later, so i guess I'll skip

[queen raft]

do not spend tickets on alice

[karmic fable]

I don't understand why gems are seen as less valuable than tickets

I would have thought tickets were a "lmao you aren't spending gems go for it" type of thing

[queen raft]

cause tickets are guaranteed

i spend 390 pulls to get a single copy of crown

[karmic fable]

........Sooooooooooo

Gems are the lmao currency, you actually care about tickets

In that case, wouldn't you pull on every banner at least a little? Maybe you'll get lucky but you'll definitely get tickets for next time

[dapper owl]

gems and free rolls are there for the rare non-limited banners that are actually worth a damn

like duos or freak occurences like dkw

[karmic fable]

How do you know if something is limited anyway?

dkw?

[dapper owl]

it has a giant limited text on the banner image

[karmic fable]

Huh, I don't recall seeing that. I'll have to keep an eye out

[quiet schooner]

you know how I hate sticking myself in main cord

but I was so furious today

[surreal delta]

you really think we’ll get that rework

or just skill resets and tooltip change

[quiet schooner]

you get nothing

[surreal delta]

GOOD DAY SIR

[simple raft]

Send death threat to them, bet it'd make some changes

Like hoyo's bunny

[main pewter]

SU: Tove Treasure, take it or leave it

[karmic fable]

I can't imagine Shift Up caring, people were vitriolic about Stellar Blade after all

[simple raft]

In a year and she already replaced by better units

Rule of thumb: Pilgrims units or busted

[karmic fable]

consider whether Tove was actually good to begin with

[simple raft]

Hey, at least my Bunny Alice still useful for healing and ammo

[surreal delta]

yea rapu replacement for crown

as long revive isn’t needed

[karmic fable]

I always find that Rapunzul dies first so like

.....The revive isn't exactly useful for me

[candid summit]

ITS TOVER

once again

[sick lion]

Still worth building sg team?
We will get doll selection and level it up doesn’t seem so bad now

[formal zenith]

rn only worth it if you want to compete in solo raid

[candid summit]

imagine testing units before shipping them out

[formal zenith]

in the future we'll have to see if shift up even decides to make use of any of the current shotgun characters

say shotgun becomes really good later... will it even be with any of these characters? maybe or maybe not

[candid summit]

soda might be still meta

if they also go for the long buffs

[karmic fable]

Are shotguns actually that bad? I've been satisfied with their output so far. They're not meta but they're still like, viable.

[formal zenith]

anything that fits in solo raid is not bad

bad would be something that doesn't make it to solo raid

for example smg dps team

[sick lion]

Sg team is not bad but those treasure looked more cool

[candid summit]

so alice is an another free skill reset char

good, I need the resets

[formal zenith]

who do you need to reset? balice?

[candid summit]

2b and a2

I can use their books for others now

[slate hare]

imagine not having reset them ages ago

[candid summit]

hey, a2 carried some def stages

and 2b still might be on the table because pvp but you know

[dapper owl]

hyperbolic on the worthless part
anyone who plays SG know how great it is to not drop the attack speed stacks

and before anyone say that you still need to wait for 3 stacks on your b3s, nope
in reality, you can burst at 2 and the score doesn't bulge much.

[brave kraken]

damn

tovers got baited

[dapper owl]

you get three stacks in most time anyway

[brave kraken]

[slate hare]

i mean yeah stack uptime in general is still around 80%

perma attack speed is the most important thing

most dmg comes from the BA lmao

[dapper owl]

My shotgun team is doing more than my bunny maxwell modernia team

[slate hare]

yeaaaa i didnt get balice in 20 so im probably gonna skip and wishlist

got fucking vesti

[dapper owl]

armchair numbercrunchers worry way too much about tove's burst stack
when her attack speed is the meat

[candid summit]

attack speed stack is already doomed

the burst stack was the cope

and thats not working either

[slate hare]

attack speed stack works wdym?

💀

[dapper owl]

do you even have her? Attack speed is permanent

[candid summit]

you can't refresh with balica

doesn't it also scale

with stacks

1 sec

[dapper owl]

this is why people are skipping. They don't know jack about what they're dooming

[candid summit]

so s2 works as intended ?

good

[slate hare]

its S1

[candid summit]

attack speed is in s2

[slate hare]

but yes

thought you were referring to balice nvm

[turbid nymph]

what do you mean?
B.Alice can active Tove's S2 indirectly.
I tested it by making tove taking cover after getting 1 stack.

[crude stag]

Is the main issue with BAlice+Tove coming from shotgun squad mates might not get 3 stacks, so the ATK up from Tove's burst is reduced?

[slate hare]

yes

but her attack up is 83% of the value anyways

so you lose like

at most you’re short 2 stacks

40.19% attack

in attacker terms

at most

[crude stag]

It's not as good as we presumed, but being able to reduce the ATK SPD kick-in time/inconsistency is still a game changer I think? Since Tove S2 is triggered by her own stack number? (I don't own Tove, so I might be wrong)

[turbid nymph]

I'm gonna check it brb
feeling kinda lost

[slate hare]

attack speed is the most important thing

and thats permanent save for boss disappearing/jumping

as long as you get one max ammo on each unless you have the most dog luck in the world you’ll be good

[lilac folio]

BAlice good for other teams ?

[turbid nymph]

I got it now
I misunderstood how B.Alice and Tove's S1 work
Thank you letting me know.

[slate hare]

crown team

[lilac folio]

I see

[loud gulch]

ol ammo on which units?

[loud gulch]

on each who? all 5 units? not sure which units need ol ammo on

[slate hare]

all

1 each for tove and balice

[loud gulch]

so all 5 units need at least 1 ammo OL?

[slate hare]

yes

[dapper owl]

Maybe you can drop leona

[slate hare]

leona needs to be powercrept asap

[quiet schooner]

neva

chick so hot

[slate hare]

meh

if drake gets a treasure leona is gone

[dapper owl]

But who drives b2?

But yeah Leona and mpriv are prime candidates to swap out to counter ele shields

[slate hare]

dolla

maybe ||clay|| is good to be in that slot

[dapper owl]

B2 talks got me thinking

What if we just swap Leona out for something like Guilty?

Lose some range and hit rate, but gain raw damage

[drowsy quartz]

i thought the same but we can only test that on GD

shooting range will be shit since the boss goes far away sometimes and this is when leona shines

but in the case of GD some proper testing could lead to nice results

[dapper owl]

I thought of guilty because with her, sg team can cover 4 ele shield types at once

[rancid zephyr]

Rainbow boss when

[drowsy quartz]

highly depends on the fight. for GD you might be able to sneak guilty in, for anyone else Guilty would be bad

[desert geyser]

#1244976866516008990 message

I hate it when I'm right

If tove is already at 3 stacks and your other units arent, Balice refreshing the stack on tove doesnt provide tove stack to your other allies even tho tove is "gaining" a stack yeah?

[dapper owl]

yep. But it actually doesn't matter that much in real scenarios
since you still have permanent attack speed buff

Also scopelocked tests done.

Leona is beating Guilty in terms of overall damage in shooting range.

[desert geyser]

I get that already from what u said previous. Just in terms of her burst though the main issue is basically just

When at max stacks:

Gain = refresh duration but
Refresh =/= gain for the purposes of allies regarding tove s1

Like being at max and "gaining" it isnt seen as tove gaining a stack, only refreshing duration

That doesnt seem like the hardest thing to hotfix in the world but im not a programmer so its not my place to say

[dapper owl]

Guilty scopelocked test with SG team.

Leona scopelocked test with SG team in comparison.

Some key notes:

• Guilty scales harder with OLs, which scopelock doesn't have, thus giving her a disadvantage.
• Leona gives fat buffs and also gets permanent tove buffs.

[quiet schooner]

u lose some dmg by using a buffer like Leona

but win more dmg overall

due to her buff doesn't scale on OL

[slate hare]

I hipe guilty gets a treasure so I can finally have this roll be put to use

[drowsy quartz]

that test is shit because of the possible range difference. guilty team might still outperform on gravedigger since he's always close

[dapper owl]

Duh, range is a factor

but I'm outta books to invest into Guilty

[drowsy quartz]

Range being a factor is the worst part about shooting range

[rugged magnet]

think ppl are a bit braindead when they think this is a dealbreaker

like all you need to do is reset so that your B3s have 3 stacks prior to pressing Tove burst

whereas full S2 uptime on Tove is virtually unmaldable without B.Alice

[slate hare]

yeah

[rugged magnet]

like it's the same thing with SW team

[slate hare]

4 hours reset to 1 hour at most prolly

[rugged magnet]

nobody is thinking about how much average damage SW is doing per crit

you're playing for the 80th-95th percentile crit fishing range

same thing goes for Tove, previously I legit malded 4 hours for decent uptime on S2

now I can mald 4x less for full uptime

[dapper owl]

You got it right. But most people bitching aren't even deep into the shartgun coolaid in the first place
so they parroted points instead, not know how things actually play out in real scenario

[slate hare]

im not even deep in SG koolaid I can just observe stuff properly

that and I need a team 4

cause I dont have s anis

so FS is my team 5

but stupid shitty gacha didnt drop me balice so its gonna be cooked for a while

[rugged magnet]

B.Alice works exactly as I expcted

just mald for starting 3 stacks

[slate hare]

yea

[turbid nymph]

was I expecting too much that it can keep Tove's S1 at 3 stacks ?

[slate hare]

S1 is technically kept at max stacks

but just for tove

[turbid nymph]

[rugged magnet]

this is also why I said ammo lines will prob be necessary

you don't want to mald ammo

*ammo lines on the SG units

[slate hare]

yea

just testing in range 1 ammo roll on sodab gives 25? ammo iirc

don’t remember

[dapper owl]

my bsoda caps at 22 ammo with like a single 40~% line iirc

[slate hare]

with alice and tove stacks

[turbid nymph]

I realized I still misunderstood how Tove's S1 and S3 works
This game is killing my brain cells

[dapper owl]

s1 is responsible for passing a special stack to other units
s3 is a gigantic buff that works with said stacks. Its stack count is equal to s1's stack on other units

s3 has a maximum of three stacks stacking

[turbid nymph]

B.Alice's S1 increase Tove's Emergency-Crafted Bullets stack, but it doesn't trigger Emergency-Crafted Bullets right?

[dapper owl]

Balice increases Tove's stacks and it can keep Tove's S2 (attack speed) buff up indefinitely, since Tove's S2 is based on her own stacks

Balice doesn't increase stacks of your non-water units. In this case, your 2 b3 dpses

So the main huddle you now have full s2 attack speed uptime

but you still need to wait for some tove stacks on your b3 dpses, since Tove's burst relies on the number of stacks that they have at the time of bursting

before: mald for both full s2 uptime and stacks on carries for burst
now: mald only for stacks on carries for burst. After burst, can forget about stacks for a while because s2 has no danger of being dropped

[real quiver]

SU: "YOu know what, I'm gonna nerf shotgun harder!"

[turbid nymph]

Thank you for the clarification

[bitter mist]

Since B Alice pretty much keeps Tove up, does that mean she doesn't have to take up a Bastion slot anymore?

[dapper owl]

No. Tove still needs as much uptime (and ammo) as possible to feed stacks to other units. Her burst still needs high stack counts on other units
as it isn't based on her own stacks, but rather the stacks of recieving units

[real quiver]

So Bunny Alice lost half of her values, and she is only there for more ammo and heals...

really skippable, despite shouldn't be

[dapper owl]

Literal gamechanger for the sg team and an upgrade over rapunzel in crown comps

skip if you want

[graceful cloud]

Do I pull?

[floral mortar]

Is the new Alice good? :333 idk if she would fit with my team? sdfgsdf

[turbid nymph]

+ B.Alice's S2 =

[formal zenith]

no

do you have naga or something

put her in your team

[candid summit]

maybe its worth if you can add liter+balice instead of doro-scar

[formal zenith]

no

[candid summit]

even then its meh

[formal zenith]

crown/rapunzel combo or a potential balice combo is not a campaign team

[candid summit]

at that sync probably crown passive adds more instead of investing in 3 other dps units

[slate hare]

crown kit more broken than investing in the dps

[candid summit]

thats like 2 more slill levels on whole team instead of investing that 3rd dps

and using like naked balice

[limber hull]

so how good is bunny alice?

[visual viper]

Normal Alice is still better than Bunny Alice, right?

[stable wasp]

they don't occupy the same niche

[low lava]

Anyone know best cube for bunny Alice?

And OL i guess ammo>atk>elem?

[visual viper]

So you can use both in the same team sensibly?

[hoary shadow]

Yes but I don't think it's optimal

Unless you're putting Alice and Balice in Crown team

[cosmic perch]

Cubes for all team members ?

[slate hare]

she just needs 1 ammo roll

and bastion

[solar yarrow]

how would u rate tier alice bunny

worth using spark on or fk that shit

[low lava]

Thanks, but since she is waifu i want give her more 😉 thats why :). Not too much ofc but for latter

[solar yarrow]

aight well got 200 ticks for spark so il save thoes for next limited i guess

im guessing we getting eve from stellar blade soon as well

[nocturne dirge]

Hey buys. I checked the pins but no word yet on must pull or not for Balice.

[formal zenith]

you can skip her

she's shotgun team for tove

whole shotgun team is atm skippable

[dapper owl]

upgrade over rapunzel for crown teams

[tawny crystal]

that's not even accounting for the hyper mald core hit PLUS crit

yes, in phase 1 of solo raid the core still exists, SU removed core for phase 2 only

and one more thing: you can STILL run crown with SW, if you get Laplace Favorite Item to automatically get phase 1
that way crown and rapunzel can be replaced for Rem and Laplace for Alice Bscar

and move Crown to SW

[plush summit]

What exactly is in a Crown team? I know for campaign Crown works best with Naga so is that a raid team?

[tawny crystal]

usually Crown goes with Alice/BScar, and a flex healer such as BAlice or Rapunzel to trigger the attack damage buff on Skill 2

[little pine]

there is actually an ingame mention of guaranteed 1 stack, but it doesn't show up in online kits like that. you have to click the orange 'mirror stack count' explanation ingame, and it'll mention it'll give 1 stack at minimum

the en tl of the stack count explanation used to be horribly wrong compared to kr/jp ones, but they fixed it eventually. the minimum 1 stack thing was always there and right at least

[real quiver]

Shotgun comp is nerf heavily: Tove with low atk buff, Leona with shit pellets design, and Bunny Alice only runs 50% of her power, finally, I dislike Bunny Soda's face (doesn't stick with original design)

[dapper owl]

explain each of your points

[real quiver]

feedback threads from NIKKE's discord explain well than me.

[dapper owl]

ah so you're just parroting

[desert geyser]

just for future reference, a character getting an alternate version has 0 correlation with the original character. just treat them like brand new unique characters abilities wise that just happen to share the same name/face as some other character already in the game.

[real quiver]

Except for Scarlet, both are broken

[sacred cloud]

There's still 0 correlation there

[raw star]

survey is up, i wonder how many people will talk about bsoda's face

[quiet schooner]

there's me

they asked what I dislike about BSoda

Her boobs Her face doesn't resemble original Soda

[stable wasp]

It doesn't help that the way the shading is done, it looks like she has a bulge on her right side of the face

[candid summit]

#1244976866516008990

[quiet schooner]

I mean pout face is cute tho

but B Soda looks like someone else

[lofty eagle]

So if I dont have Leona, I should use either Guilty or Dolla?

[nocturne grail]

What were the skills for the sg team again?

[dapper owl]

pinne

[warm latch]

what's tldr of b-alice? like when should she be used in a team

[obtuse copper]

Should I pull her even if I don't have bunny soda?

[slate hare]

not really

shes good but summer too close

wishlist is better

[obtuse copper]

So wait till she's in normal gacha?

[slate hare]

yea

[turbid nymph]

B.Alice is needed when you somehow decide to run SG team with super-uninvested Tove
to keep AS buff up

[slate hare]

even with invested tove she drops her stacks a shit ton

[formal zenith]

clumsy maid tove can't hold a stack

[sacred cloud]

super uninvested tove is just pain

u still need to stack ur other 2 dps for burst

[proven wolf]

https://www.prydwen.gg/nikke/guides/guide-alice-bunny

Waiting for nikke.gg now

[drowsy quartz]

we don't even have early analysis

[formal zenith]

ss tier for high deficit thats crazy did not expect such a score

[quiet schooner]

she's better Rapunzel

assuming you never want the revival of Rapunzel tho

[formal zenith]

i was thinking with the whole less deficit thing

highly maybe you can survive and the healing is useful

[quiet schooner]

due to cp inflation

37% feels extremely sinister now

[turbid nymph]

How is healing useful?
Every thing 1 shots you.

[formal zenith]

actually no

how can you say that when there are motherfuckers dealing periodic dmg to the team

even at the highest deficits possible they still don't 1 shot you

[turbid nymph]

ah that rapture, but they show up rarerly

[formal zenith]

and the game is different now

we don't do 45% deficits

tbf i also haven't researched much how these new deficits play out

nalaniko do some runs please

[quiet schooner]

also the most dangerous raptures in high deficit

is actually Cube

and Bronchus

their dmg won't oneshot you but they hit immediately

and 2 shots you lol

[turbid nymph]

[formal zenith]

they should do another blanket cp push to really solidify healing as a useful tool

[turbid nymph]

I still think using Naga to clear them fast is better
But after all I'm not playing campaign much after the patch, so not sure

[formal zenith]

naga 100% better

but naga is also rated higher than balice

[turbid nymph]

I got the rating mixed up with Nikke.gg
Time to sleep

[proven wolf]

Campaign only has 5 slots

If you don't have Naga, you go with another DPS
Or b.alice

She don't have a spot at 35%+ but

That's literally territory for sss only lol

[formal zenith]

this is why we need another no stat cp buff

make attacks non-lethal and healers good

[barren river]

Damn dude I'm not the only one feeling and suffering each moment in +30%

[little pine]

@rugged tangle oh now that the balice article is out, probably should update the table I gave you to say L7 s2 instead of ~L4 since I was just estimating the level for it based on a usual 1.69x scaling, but her s2 scaling turned out to be much higher

[rugged tangle]

oh

@tender zenith ill summon the boss himself

[little pine]

unfortunately even saying L7 is a little off since I used 29%, and L7 is actually 30.19%. but w/e close enough, the idea is there

[graceful cloud]

is bun alice worth more than 1 copy?

[simple raft]

Yes for her burst animation, otherwise no

[proven wolf]

no unit is ever worth more than 1 copy

[dapper owl]

*more than

[proven wolf]

fixed

[lilac knot]

Is swapping leona for crown viable because crown procs her huge S1 attack buff on anyone who bursted that round, so having a retrigger burst like BGAlice would be huge? Plus alice heals. Or is Crown too strong in general to saddle in a team like this and it's better to stick her with a better team? Or is Leona just too important to the comp that she can't be replaced without it falling apart?

[tawny crystal]

no you need crown for bscar alice

[lilac knot]

I mean you don't NEED crown for that

[proven wolf]

It's something that works
Doesn't mean it's the ideal thing to do

Leona isn't necessary since crown will just buff the units to kingdom fuck

Whatever Leona provides to mPriv, crown provides double that as a bare minimum

[proven wolf]

Crown is BiS B2 for everything

Everything

[lilac knot]

Right so the question becomes if you lose more damage than you gain by swapping Crown to SG team, putting the next best B2 in with Alice BScarl, and swapping Leona for an overall better B2 elsewhere.

I'm GUESSING it's probably a loss compared to crown + alice and leona + SGs, but idk how good leona + SGs is compared to the B2 you would unbench to swap her out

[proven wolf]

Yeah, gain or lose depends on investments of other teams and your capability to play those other teams well

[lilac knot]

Yeah it's gonna be a little different for everyone I guess. If your investment in SGs is high and you have a good squad of B2s but no leona, it could be worth

The fact that BG Alice only enables double B1 every other rotation hurts though lol

[proven wolf]

What

You don't even need to burst with b.alice cuz u lose time

Don't burst with alice

There's forced delay going from B0 -> b1

[lilac knot]

The entire point of me suggesting putting Crown in with SG team is because Alice's double burst enables Crown's +60% attack from her S1 to proc on an additional unit

Because the attack buff only hits units who burst

[proven wolf]

doesnt matter cuz b.alice isnt a dps

she does like +5 mil damage with that atk up

shes a support healer

dont expect her to do wonders

its like giving liter atk up and expecting her to do damage

doesnt work like that

[lilac knot]

I guess that's fair

[rancid zephyr]

For shotgun team, is more ammo better on Alice or Tove?

[warm latch]

wow she's apparently that good

i don't feel so wasted now since i got her mlb

makes sense since imo main reason to use her is the burst regen

healing kinda secondary and it's both passive and active anyways

[worn garden]

both but tove is much more important

[rugged tangle]

Can I have the updated version?

[little pine]

just change the L4 29% line to L7

I haven't rerun any numbers, won't be able to do so until next week, but it's probably close enough

[real quiver]

So BAlice have more ratings than BSoda, damn

[vestal atlas]

is BAlice must pull?

[proven wolf]

If you want SG team, yes

If u need healers yes

Otherwise no

[vestal atlas]

my only unit missing for SG team is Leona

is that still count?

[proven wolf]

I think sg team still works without Leona
Just worse

B.aloce Tove b2 soda sugar/mPriv
Sugar don't need Leona, but Leona is definitely good here

[vestal atlas]

how good is BAlice as a healer?

[proven wolf]

Pretty good
Top 5 ig

[vestal atlas]

okay then

i will try my like for her

[barren river]

Leona works if the boss is far? Maybe?

[vestal atlas]

thank you good sir

[proven wolf]

How many bosses are far

Obelisk
Plate
SB

What else

[barren river]

mm storm bringer?

idk maybe Leona has a place in union raid if you don't have bunnies/gals/crown

[proven wolf]

I mean like

There's not many far bosses dude

There's no need to push down SG team cuz "oh but far bosses"

Most bosses are like, pretty normalish

[barren river]

Well ultra but nobody cares ultra

[barren river]

Yup only SU love put us in troubles

Well the best thing about SG team is that sanis doro is finally out?

not for me because I don't have books to invest in the whole team

[formal zenith]

we'll have to see what their plans are with soloraid once we've gone through the list of expected bosses

[barren river]

Nah if SU put a boss where SG team don't work that good when I start to feed the team I'll kill myself

[slate hare]

it works well in general

stormbringer was probably the only one you couldn’t do

cause mat H you dont worry about other members not aiming at the core cause they’re all SG or supports with no dmg

[stable wasp]

Did you end up splurging to get her?

[proven wolf]

I have no gems

[surreal delta]

prydwen doesn't pay much huh?

[low lava]

Haha

[real quiver]

Kisenix: "He knows too much"
load shotgun with malicious intent

[plucky wing]

soooo another Water shotgun