Powerpuff Girls

[vocal folio]

also i wanted to learn some cool ppg stuff so hopefully ur my ticket 🎀

[pure bay]

im not hitting anything too cool with this lag

but ill try

[vocal folio]

you hit enough sairs you’ll be fine

[pure bay]

u mean nair

[vocal folio]

ggs 🤝 🎀

[pure bay]

ggs

will say, u use the same attacks in the same manner all the time, u should prob get that under control

[vocal folio]

how ironic 😭

[pure bay]

how so?

[vocal folio]

Just let me be respectful

ty for ur time

[pure bay]

yw, thnx for urs too

[marsh pewter]

Why was the last message 5 days ago

💀

[pure bay]

whats there to say?

waiting for the nerfs

[vapid void]

I do love a good nerf

[vocal folio]

NOO!!

[vapid void]

It is what it is

PPG is gonna get nerfed

[fallow hollow]

ppgversus

[fallow hollow]

side special nair dash attack fr

[vapid void]

I'm expecting Bubbles will probably get targeted especially too since she's played way more than the other two

[patent pulsar]

Definitely. She's able to kill way too easily for the one that's supposed to just do combod

[vapid void]

Curious to see if they'll risk giving the other two sisters some minor buffs or not. Leaning towards that they aren't gonna do that though.

[teal wadi]

Maybe it’s because bubbles is op but the other siblings are just not good

I see airdash users sometimes using blossom in their gameplay. but as someone who uses extra ingredients, I see almost no use for the other siblings

Blossoms is completely useless without airdash.

Buttercup is only good for kills, armour and heavy projectiles.

Which leaves bubbles as the only one being used for gameplay

[vapid void]

Yea no Bubbles is the bonkers one

Which makes sense since speed and combobility tends to be the most important trait in a platform fighter. The fact they all do the dame damage is crazy too.

Best case scenario Bubbles gets nerfed but not made useless while Blossom and Buttercup get some buffs as incentive to use them

Though realistically I'm expecting just hard nerfs across the board

[patent pulsar]

They'll be nerfed and then they'll see that PPG is seriously underperforming and then they'll get some buffs

[vapid void]

or they'll go the way of jake

[cobalt basin]

any cool PPG tech?

[cobalt basin]

yea

rn theres no reason to use blossom other then ice breath spam

bubbles is faster and buttercup gets kills faster

no one needs a middle ground

and that middle ground is blossom

[teal wadi]

Swap cancelling

Swap cancel: if you input certain moves immediately after downspecial, you won’t be stuck on the endlag animation.

You can kill someone’s with bubbles at 85%.
(Bubbles) jab - jab - swapcancel - (buttercup) uptilt
#clips message

Here’s some more uses beginning with blossom #combos message

You can follow up uptilt - upspecial on certain %. I’m pretty sure it’s diable tho but it works a lot in game

[cobalt basin]

damn

im trying to do it rn

but its kinda hard

[terse aurora]

they gotta nerf bubbles it is insane
you can get death combod if they stun you

[marsh pewter]

Not really you just gotta get the timing right

[fallow hollow]

air dash is better at 0tds

[urban marsh]

i hope the nerfs are actually big nerfs

I'm so sick of having to have a cheese off with another ppg in 2s or just in general

[teal wadi]

Same

Dumb ppg mains

I hope they gut this character. Way too much cheese

[urban marsh]

it feels so awful just watching people get high ranks with just the cheese after constantly labbing the character and finding cool stuff that isn't the cheese

like before the nair change i learned a few read based setups that were fun and the nair change got rid of those

hopefully all the cheese gets removed with season 4 and the character actually takes some skill

[vapid void]

Just gotta hope that she gets genuine nerfs and not made useless because the PPG are fun as hell to play

But I'm not holding my breath. I'll still play them regardless of how hard they get nerfed though.

[urban marsh]

same

[grim sigil]

if they get ground into the dirt I'll just have to live until Marceline drops

[zenith isle]

I’m gonna be honest I do not agree with the decision to make dash attack usable in the air

[marsh pewter]

I just like the show tho

I don't main em cause they're broken

They can be bottom tier for all I care

[gleaming drift]

the nerfs will hopefully coerce players into being creative with the character in order to win instead of abusing rainbow dash

I just hope they don’t just gut them and leave lmao

[vapid void]

hard to say game has wack balance as is

they're adding a new character basically every month so that doesn't make balancing easy

[pure bay]

I was bring creative, it just so happened that using rainbow dash at the end of those combos seemingly killed my opponents

[urban marsh]

i kinda like the ppg changes honestly

[gleaming drift]

Yeah, the size reduction is actually a huge buff and rainbowdash doesn’t seem as cheesy

[wheat olive]

The were already Smol. Why shrink en?

[gleaming drift]

They had a pretty big hitbox

[urban marsh]

i like the air down b changes a lot

and the fact bubbles and buttercup give buffs to their ally in 2s

[gleaming drift]

I wonder if comboing with the air neutral will be easier since it has less knockback

[tribal thistle]

Buttercup buffs 🔥

[flat heath]

Why did they include "The" on some characters?

that's a mildly painful chore to scroll down but yeah okay

[tribal thistle]

The jonkler

[flat heath]

I thought the meme "is ruined" now hahahaha

That being said, The PPG Girls are supportive depending on leader now

but why doesn't Blossom have an Ally buff though? 🤔

[tribal thistle]

Great to finally have some synergy in 2s with them

[tribal thistle]

I wonder

[wheat olive]

It's cause she's the balanced one out of the two

3*

Why the world did I say 2

[idle sun]

Blossom was already considered the least useful of the 3 for many people, wasn't she? Her not getting a passive buff is weird.

[tulip helm]

So Powerpuff girls have finally a teammate interactions huh?

[agile wolf]

idc if finn got nerfed my buddy plays ppg i'm just gonna be faster than speed and annoy everyone

[flat heath]

TBF, aside from Betelgeuse and probs Human the Finn, I don't remember any other assassin-type with ally interaction

[agile wolf]

can't arya face steal an ally or nah. also harley can attach bomb to ally

and stripe's buzzsaw can attach to an ally

[flat heath]

arya
she can, but that's like a friendly fire thing so I don't wanna count that

I didn't know about the others though 😛

[wheat olive]

Idk if Taz has anythinf

[agile wolf]

now you're moving the goalposts

[tulip helm]

Arya gives his allies weekend stacks, shield breaking, steal their face and teleport towards then

Harley have two variants of confetti and stick bombs to their allies.

[flat heath]

taz can swallow ally? Or am i mixing him up with Dog the Jake?

[idle sun]

Harley attaches bombs and allies can proc her explosion debuff once it's active. Taz has a passive heal on allies he runs past and allies can proc Tasty stacks once applied. Stripe can put the saw on allies. Arya turnaround buff applies to allies and can attach dagger to them

[tulip helm]

Stripe can also use ally projectiles for getting a lot of vertical mobility

[tulip helm]

Taz can heal allies, both stack tasty debuff, and with the signature perk dog pile both can deal a lot of damage in a single ability.

[modest pike]

PPG looking real good now I gotta say

[urban marsh]

and a lot less cheesy

hopefully

[gleaming drift]

Yeah, there’s even more reason now to just not use blossom lmao

[wheat crane]

Blossom should get half the buff of both bubbles and buttercup’s buff to teammates. At least lol

[vapid void]

I just took a quick look at the changes and luckily they don't seem gutted just changed

Need to try it out in practice

I play 2s exclusively so teammate interactions looks really nice

[modest pike]

Dair lockout nerf is probably deserved

I definitely used that in neutral and offstage way more than intended lol

[patent pulsar]

Why did they make bubbles air side special stronger

It was already killing early

[vapid void]

no clue lol

they didn't touch extra ingredient either so im happy about that

weird how blossom does't get an ally effect though she was already the least used girl

[patent pulsar]

Stun into side special bouta be even better

[vapid void]

i was already using it to kill early too so 🤷‍♂️

they didn't touch up special either and thats also a really good move

seems like most of these changes were designed to kill nair into acrobattack users specifically

[flint dawn]

This character gonna be broken

Even more than it already was

[urban marsh]

in 2s maybe

i think they'll def be toned down a bit now and a lot less cheesy in 1s

[vapid void]

another 2s win for me if thats the case

[modest pike]

I think a lot of people forgot this game was built around 2s

And now the devs are finally kind of leaning into that again with PPG and Adam's buffs being mostly ally support

[vapid void]

the fact the game was made for 2s is what sold it on me

i just use ranked 1s as a glorified training mode

[urban marsh]

the nair changes actually brought back some of the old airwalker setups i had

i wonder if the character level for ppg is fixed?

[vocal folio]

PPG feels absolute cheeks

yet again i have to relearn what works on the character

[urban marsh]

i don't think they're bad

[grim sigil]

Damn they feel off to play now

[deft vapor]

you can combo with bubbles and extra ingrdient like
jab jab down tilt side special(ground) stun into nair

for like 37

they gutted nair but ground side specials kinda insane now

its great

[vapid void]

its gonna take a hot minute to get used to their new size

they're so tiny which is lore accurate and all but still

[deft vapor]

yeah but at least we wont be getting hit by the stupidest things anymore

ie big character hitboxes

[vapid void]

its a change im down for

its just a funny one

[deft vapor]

the only bad thing about this patch was the public execution of nair

for this character

[wet robin]

Just lost to a batman and iron gaint batman hits like a truck

[vapid void]

yeah just gotta work nair out of your system

[deft vapor]

yea

[wet robin]

So is nair not viable for combos no more?

[deft vapor]

its mostly just for ending combos now

the move isnt unusable its just hard to use for combos

[wet robin]

What do you do now besides the one you said a bit ago?

[deft vapor]

i havent played 1s at all since the new season ive just been doing the events and missions so

on the bright side buttercup neutral special hits like a truck now

and kills super early

and buttercups grounded side special can kill quite well too

[wet robin]

Need a content creator who mains this character low key

[vapid void]

yea i think i like this version of the character for 2v2 anyway

[deft vapor]

its probably still good in 1s

i dont think they gutted the character

theres initial panic after a characters nerfed but eh its not too bad dont think

[wet robin]

The only move I can think of to combo after the usual jab combo is after down tilt to do the dair but dair don't really hit reliable for me at least

[deft vapor]

dunno if its just me but i feel like the down tilt is dropping opponents out of it much more

since this patch

[vocal folio]

exactly!!!

[vocal folio]

right

[vocal folio]

Use the grab a lot more, and up air those have been noticeably buffed

[vocal folio]

exactly!! 😭 aeris just goes for cheese so he doesn’t count

[vocal folio]

you’re absolutely right

[deft vapor]

its a major problem since like they have no hitstun on the first hit

and can just hit you for free basically

[wheat olive]

Wasn't Blossom's whole thing suppose to be consistent

[wet robin]

They made it to where her ice breath can kill at high percentages now

Like around the 100% range

[silk temple]

Hello PPG mains i wanna learn your character

[tribal thistle]

Welcome

[vapid void]

we're currently in the process of relearning this character ourselves rn

[urban marsh]

after playing the changes a bit more this character feels so awful to play now

there's just like no air combo game at all

or combo game really at all

they aren't terrible but the combo game just feels so much worse now

[vapid void]

yea im struggling to find a reliable bnb without sonic scream

right now I'm more reliant on the side specials

[urban marsh]

nair and dair not being combo tools anymore killed so much for combos it's insane

and jab jab down attack being inconsistent because of the size decrease they got

[vapid void]

I do like that they at least got a buff to their kill power but it's a struggle to rack up damage with their combo nerfs

I find having to play even more hit and run than before

[urban marsh]

yeah

[deft vapor]

if the nair change was to stop the air dash perk then why not just nerf the air dash perk more

i dont see why the rest of the character has to suffer

[urban marsh]

exactly

i think it was that and also people doing jab jab down attack nair into bubbles scream then side b

but instead they killed nair and bubbles scream into side b is even better

since they buffed it for some reason

and you can still just down attack into scream

[deft vapor]

they couldve made the dash come out a bit later

[urban marsh]

yeah

[deft vapor]

or just made it so nair cant use dash out of it

☠️

there was other options than completely gutting the combo potential

and kneecapping this characters combo game EVEN MORE

they made a combo character but are afraid of it being a combo character

[urban marsh]

they could've just nerfed rainbow dash perk and then nerf side b and basically problem solved already

[deft vapor]

yeah exactly

[urban marsh]

instead nair gets killed and they still nerf rainbow dash on top of it and buff side b

like why

[deft vapor]

this is like the third time they have changed nair

i get the damage nerf but everything else was uncalled for

[urban marsh]

yeah

[deft vapor]

nair is MADE to be this characters combo tool

[urban marsh]

and dair was also good for ground bounce combos on this character too

and not to mention dair is dead too

[deft vapor]

they could also just make it so you cant use certain moves out of nair like they did with tnj

[urban marsh]

yeah

they could've just made scream not work out of nair

[deft vapor]

there were options here

and it somehow got more nerfed than the first iteration with the 5 extra frames

[urban marsh]

yeah they had plenty of options to nerf the cheese from last season and keep the combo game they had

[urban marsh]

yeah cause at least back then you could do reads with airwalker and stuff

can't even do that with nair now

[deft vapor]

i used nair as an approach tool and now its harder to get followups without getting hit

and this character is large as well so you are bound to get hit

[urban marsh]

yeah

i'll still try to play the character but idk if i'll play them that much for now

[cobalt saddle]

This is exactly how I’m playing too. Only able to get in a single attack at a time.

[urban marsh]

it just feels so depressing trying to do any combo and just it doesn't work

[deft vapor]

i just want nair to be a combo tool again

[vocal folio]

this is what i’m saying like it’s so frustrating

[deft vapor]

the other buffs were cool and all but if we cant even COMBO then whats the point

[vapid void]

Game is balanced around 2s and there the PPG still do feel strong if not better due to giving their partner buffs and its easier to land kill moves

Plus being smaller makes it harder for the opposing team to kill them easier if the PPG player is more careful

[deft vapor]

being balanced around 2s i dont personally believe anymore considering most changes that have happened to characters have been 1s related

[green geode]

I think next to killing off most of their combo game, the size reduction felt like a lazy way to address them getting hit by random stuff. Its really jarring seeing them smaller than Gizmo

All they needed was a hurtbox change for the girl in the back/maaaybe a small size reduction, now they look like theyre beta sized

Oh cant forget it gives them less stage presence/jab jab dtilt doesnt even work right half the time

[marsh pewter]

Both of my mains got gutted I love this game ❤️

[deft vapor]

Oh yeah ok dtilt just doesnt connect the rigjt way its supposed to

Thought it was just me

[wet robin]

I'll be waiting for marcy but I have hope in the mid season patch for the girls

[vapid void]

ill just accept it as it comes

they're no longer the hype new character now so i was expecting power creep from the get to go

[green geode]

Yeah they should still have a combo game just not throw you off the stage and insta murder you, I think air dash shouldnt send down as it looks really off, it should send like diagonally back or something, ik it takes more testing but visually itd make sense imo

Ima prolly gonna use Jack more this season, up tilt cancel fun asf

[wet robin]

I've been thinking about using Garnet

[vocal folio]

i love her she was my first main!! 😃 I encourage you to!! 👍

[vapid void]

i do kinda want to pick up raven

but im fine juggling ppg and jason

[gleaming drift]

How useful is the dash perk now? I’ve heard that their aerial combo game was nerfed so is there still some use to it?

[oak lagoon]

[vocal folio]

OI GET OUTTA HERE

[haughty dagger]

I just started playing her this patch, where's the sauce located now. Nothing from last patch seems to work, muscle memory ruined.

[oak lagoon]

banished and exiled from two channels now

[vocal folio]

no sauce only death

[green geode]

Im still running it cuz I feel like its part of my kit now but the aerial version sending down is for the opponent to become ground bounce fodder/dair fodder just doesnt feel right for PPG, but now youll be throwing it out and then following them below you with maybe a nair or something else

[rigid furnace]

I like it honestly, more interesting than simply being a no brainer extender for nair and up special

I say this as someone who used air dash almost exclusively

Now it feels more of a combo starter rather than a finisher, which feels weird at first but isn't necessarily bad

[oblique elbow]

Has anyone found any new combos this patch? Maybe I just need to get used to the new speed but I’m struggling to put anything together

Or is this character buns now 😦

[green geode]

Mix of both imo

[green geode]

I just think they shouldve gotten other combo routes while nerfing the main one in damage and exclusively kill potential, cuz now nair and air dash just dont feel satisfying to actually land them. The issue is making a combo heavy character in this game with a perk like air dash attack is alr hard to balance when things die so fast

Like last patch it was pretty fun that if you used nair with momentum you could carry your opponent into being hit by aerial down b, a very niche use but a possible one, if you give them different routes off nair thatd be nice instead of nair being completely bad, the other issue comes in with nair spamming tho cuz that move is too easy to hit

Srry for the paragraphs lol

[rigid furnace]

I agree on the nair part, it's still good to push back opponents but it has no follow ups at all

It's very weird

Still decent to kill near blast zone tho

[rigid furnace]

I posted a couple in #combos , nothing crazy though

[urban marsh]

it's so hard to have fun on this character rn they just have nothing

rainbow dash spiking is kinda funny tho the more i use it

[cobalt saddle]

That buttercup one omg!

[rigid furnace]

Yeah that one is pretty inconsistent actually. Jab jab laser is harder to get out of but doesn't kill as early

[winged iron]

They got the Superman treatment

@rigid furnace This character feels so cool but is so nerfed lol

[urban marsh]

idk what happened to superman tbh

i don't know that character at all

did he lose all his combos too or something?

[winged iron]

Pretty much

Everything is just hard reads. No combos

[rigid furnace]

I'm actually starting to get used to them

Or maybe my opponents just aren't very good

[winged iron]

Their best move is seemingly still nair but its terrible lol

and you can't combo after down air?

Welp better wait till Marceline drops for buffs

[winged iron]

If youre playing ranked and in Diamond, then the players are good

Outside of that, no they are probably new or returning for the season

[urban marsh]

Yep

And rainbow dash spiking makes dair kinda useless most situations

Love how this character gets gutted but stuff like agent smith and Arya barely get nerfed

Arya instead getting buffs for some reason

[rigid furnace]

I think both compliment eachother, they each have their use

Instead of down air doing everything

[urban marsh]

Yeah but now dair does basically nothing other than chase after rainbow dash spike

Cause of not being able to combo after it other than like maybe once on a big body

I'm still mad they didn't even remove the side b cheese that nair nerfs were probably meant for

Cause buffing bubbles side b so down attack scream side b can kill even better without being close to the blast zone is awful

[rigid furnace]

It can combo into up special at certain percents, but you're right

It was nerfed a bit too much

[green geode]

I think with how good his moves are and with their knockback hes fine as is, also the shorthop/fastfall feel really good on him

[vocal folio]

does anyone else keep dying when using sair off stage?

the lag after is so bad and the fast fall is so quick 😭 i keep falling by accident

[urban marsh]

i have a couple times

i haven't really been playing the character much tho cause i've been playing raven

[vocal folio]

that’s about to be me in 4 hours 😫

[urban marsh]

hoping mid season we could get a couple buffs for them gutting nair and hitting dair really hard

just buffs to give new combo routes or something so we have some

[deft vapor]

also a fix for the down tilt would be nice

the fact it just doesnt always connect into the second hit after the size reduction hurts

[green geode]

Nah but I get what you mean lol, gotta be careful with the fastfall changes lol

[silver rapids]

literally just did this today in a 2s match, oof

[vapid void]

i did it too

it happens

[marsh pewter]

I still have 0 idea what to do with them now

lmao

Aeris hasn't been in a tourney post patch I think

[silver rapids]

jab jab, downtilt, bubbles stun, air side special

[vapid void]

sniping kills with buttercup is fun with her side special

i want to try more with blossom but since she doens't give any bonuses in 2v2 i dont feel like i can stay on her for long

[still tiger]

Honestly I only use blossom if I'm running the dash perk with the collision perk

[marsh pewter]

Isn't that cheese

Like that one that kills you extremely early

[silver rapids]

it only kills if you do it near the ledge, but yeah its cheesy

she doesn't really have anything else though

[marsh pewter]

Man I wish this character was actually designed well

[vapid void]

I haven't even touched that perk for weeks

Rn it's a perk that's gonna get constantly changed and messed with.

[deft vapor]

ive just been running an extra ingredient because yeah too many changes to the dash

[silver rapids]

I'm going to have to ask all PPG players to stop playing the game so that I can keep my top 5 position.. k thanks.

[plucky path]

I love it

Its consistent

Freezer, Stun, Burning

They swap between them, I love it

Also, I could never use the aerial dash well, every time I try to do it just anything else but the dash comes out

[wide zealot]

can someone teach me how to play ppg? idc if theyre bad or not i just want to learn them cuz they seem fun

[pure bay]

wait, r u lelapinpancake?

[silver rapids]

no, but whoever that is, they have good taste in usernames

[pure bay]

rlly looks similar so ig both of u just know what kind of names are good

[teal wadi]

no the his game username is the same as his discord user

Pretty good at Batman

[urban marsh]

anything new in the past few days?

[cobalt saddle]

Can anyone clarify for me. In 2v2 does being bubbles or buttercup automatically just always give the buffs to the partner?

I feel I never notice any type of signal that the buff happened to my partner

[rigid furnace]

Only me slowly realising I suck with this character

[vocal folio]

fighting ppg is so easy now it’s pathetic
:(

[rigid furnace]

It's such a pain to use them in 1v1

At least in 2s I can piggyback off my teammate's combos

[marsh pewter]

Can we revert the size reduction

It just makes them harder to hit

And they look weird to play with

[still tiger]

Honestly I don't think that's the problem with the character

I think it mainly has to do with their bread and butter combos being taken away

Down tilt is so inconsistent it hurts

It never works on lightweight characters 😭😭😭

[teal wadi]

https://x.com/ThePowerpuffGuy/status/1857957837697331286

Ppg needs more nerfs

[vocal folio]

that’s the same thing they needed nerfs on since launch and have missed. and instead nerfed all the fun out

[teal wadi]

I’m surprised stun - sidespecial is still here

It’s like the devs don’t even play this game

Ive used that for an entire season, literally so many people know about it already

[tribal thistle]

The balance team makes some very weird decisions

[deft vapor]

either could make it so once they collide with someone they do the knockback without the full distance or increase the startup on aerial side special

[pure bay]

the fun was also 0td

it was all 0td

[vocal folio]

not to me

[deft vapor]

kinda tired of the balance team just balancing the fun out of characters i play

[silver rapids]

PPG had a lot of fun non-0td combos before this patch that were very viable

not the case really anymore

[deft vapor]

all they have to do is fix aerial side special

[pure bay]

it was to me

[pure bay]

true, but those moves also gave way to 0td's

[vocal folio]

ur part of the problem then

[pure bay]

very fun for me, i dont think my opponents enjoyed it tho

[vocal folio]

🧀

[pure bay]

[deft vapor]

startup on aerial side special is probably the best way to fix the cheese

ion even abuse the 0td combos i just like this character for how rushdown it is

but its kinda hard to rushdown when all your rushdown options get taken away

[idle sun]

I wouldn't be all that happy seeing another one of their most unique moves catching nerfs just to fix a stun issue. Just ditch the stun IMO, stuns are just too hard to balance on many characters and I'm definitely not a fan of removing tool after tool just to work around a stun

[pure bay]

again, it wasnt stun that was the reason to nerf the character

it was nair

[urban marsh]

they never changed the scream and buffed bubbles side b that's why it's still here

[vapid void]

i wouldnt mind bubbles losing some power if some of is redistributed amongst the other two

mainly blossom

[light flume]

Helpp idk why but when I try to side air neutral I can't jump after when I'm below the edge

Sometimes dodge won't work

[cobalt saddle]

Yup it’s not just you, PFG def needs to address that in the next patch

[light flume]

oh thank god cause no matter what i do in practice mode i cant seem to jump out of it

[cobalt saddle]

Yea it’s so aweful. For now we just gotta avoid doing that move off stage at all

[pure bay]

What's side air neutral?

[cobalt saddle]

He just meant sair.

[idle sun]

I didn't realize it was a bug, I figured it was just a ridiculous amount of whiff lag. It is very annoying either way though, yeah.

[cobalt saddle]

You could be right that it’s just a lot of lag. But that amount of lag is aweful for that move lol

[vocal folio]

no that’s exactly what it is

there’s just no float anymore so u sink like an anchor

[wet robin]

It's funny how batman mains think they nerfed him to hard when he's perfectly fine he still chunks out damage they did the girls dirty I'm still playing them struggling because I'm stubborn but hope they get love the mid season patch couldn't come sooner

[hasty kelp]

I think they're just weirdly too slow? like when I face a good one the reason they are annoying is that they are really really amazing with their spacing (kinda playing like a Jason would) and they utilize the weirder part of their hitboxes, like they are really good at throwing out the ranged grab and knowing exactly how far away the neutral air hits from or the down ground or the special switch in the air... just barely clipping me with those every time so that I become conditioned to be afraid of getting too close, but then that opens up the rest of their kit kinda... so yea... I think they're kinda hard to be good with but I still run into a real one every so often that demolishes me lol... but those people would prolly be good with a lot of characters too

[vocal folio]

it’s funny because in their current state ppg feels worse to play against with how strong buttercup grab is. and how they’re forced to be more passive

[cobalt saddle]

Agreed, forced passive playstyle

[vocal folio]

they’re smaller too!! 😭 ugh i miss them

[tribal thistle]

Buttercup yeet

[vapid void]

It has been funny killing with Buttercup

[ancient flicker]

our character works so hard now its not even funny #combos message

#combos message

also anyone been feeling like fair/sair just doesnt work atm? Like the hitbox just doesnt work? Feels like it only hits under them and slightly in front of them. I kinda always thought the hitbox was weird and should be buffed on the move even just a little bit but last season it was a lot less agregious. Ive been personally experiencing moments like this DOZENS OF TIMES per set or whatnot. Anyone else experience this?

[cobalt saddle]

Hell yea you not alone

[ancient flicker]

the hitbox already kinda sucked when they were big

and now theyre small and its so much worse

[cobalt saddle]

I been having many issues with their phone attack too

[ancient flicker]

Idk about yall but I think im alone in this take, I kinda dislike the fact that they got smaller, it made all their moves smaller; + made some moves just straight up not work

[ancient flicker]

their kit just doesnt work anymore

#clips message

this was cool tho

#clips message

I do really like the new acrobattack air da angle tho, unique take on the moveand In theory makes it better for combos since if you had a move that combo'd into it you could tech chase with it, but nair dash attack doesnt work anymore so F

[cobalt saddle]

I’m totally using this lol

[ancient flicker]

blossom might be the best girl now cause she can kill with neutral b (and use it to counter ranged opponents, juggle or just get off ledge.) And because she has THE ONLY SIDE B THAT CAN COMBO, considering how limited their combo game is now you kinda have to play blossom which sucks but it is what it is

that is a sick route though with burnout

probs wont work on everyone, but its neat

I also wouldnt recommend just going for side b, its super punishable if the opponent knows its coming and is ready for it, (and its really easy to react to) so its just a bad approach option. I only use it for mixups or recovery. But even then its kinda bad sometimes.

these also only really worked cause this guy didnt know how not to press the jump button and use all his dodge meter lol

[ancient flicker]

glad you found use out of it though if nothing else.

[cobalt saddle]

Interesting ok.

[ancient flicker]

Bubbles isnt as fast as she used to be and her advantage got gutted, so the only real reason to use her is for footsies or like the fact that during jab jab down special, you swap into buttercup which can lead to high knockback finishers. But she can only get those off jab, so if the person knows how not to get jabbed good luck lol. Buttercup is too slow and gets ran over by anyone faster than her, sometimes people as slow or slower than her too cause she just cant combo like blossom or bubbles can (which is saying something because bubbles and blossom already cant combo as it is lol) Her upspecial is also the highest reaching so its good to catch people but you could accomplish the same thing by jumping and then upspecialing with blossom and hers kills WAY earlier so like its a mute point tbh. Bubbles gets outsped, outcombo'd and just ran over by people cause she cant trade like other characters can. Blossom can at least play keep away better with frost breath and also has the side b combo capability. AND KILLS EARLIER. Shes slightly slower but its not that big of a deal when the upside for playing bubbles is as small as it is atm. Plus as bubbles YOU DIE EARLIER. shes the lightest one.

at least thats my take on the girls rn @cobalt saddle

Sometimes though if im trying to make a comeback or cheese someone its probs best to play bubbles there casue you ARE faster. so in theory you can get in faster or make neutral faster but thats usually not the case.

[cobalt saddle]

Appreciate all the info. Blossom I been avoiding all this time. Now I see atleast right now she is the most useful

[ancient flicker]

christ i should make a ppg mu chart

[ancient flicker]

def try her out more, just got to diamond with the girls and it was quite the climb

#clips message

cool ig

#11 in the world yippeeeee

[cobalt saddle]

I can imagine lol. Havnt really used them in 1’s heavily.

In 2’s I almost have them at gold

[ancient flicker]

even in 2's i feel like they get out charactered man, I like the new buffs they got for doubles where you can give you teammate infinite speed up or kb / dmg up i forget which with bubbles and buttercup

but in doubles

usually it gets seperated into two different one v ones

so like you can buff ur teammate sure but your teammate still has to do a LOT of the heavy lifting

cause we cant combo, kill uber early or like corner carry very well or whatever else im forgetting.

[cobalt saddle]

So true lol

[ancient flicker]

even when its not seperated, you cant do like the best stuff in doubles, you're more or less light cannon foughter and a living buff for your teammate to go ham

it'd be cool if you could at least go for trades and stuff

but they nerfed their damage last season cause they could combo

and everything but sair and dair now does 4-5% lmao

so we do chip damage and cant really combo that well either

up special finishers to your teammates combo is sick tho, same for like side b or nair or whatnot, but idk, even in dubs with a teammate, you feel like you're getting character diffed constantly, and for me at least it feels like you have to rely on your teammate to "bail you out of jail" so to speak so frequently every time you get into trouble.

[cobalt saddle]

Yea in 2’s I been doing a lot of side special fishing and flying in with air side special or nair to save a partner being beat on.

But it’s def true the partner usually getting most of the kills. My end data is usually me doing way more damage but 0 kills

[ancient flicker]

that i can see, but from my experience at higher levels of play people just run over ppg and its not even your fault

I was playing in diamond - master doubles the other day and it just did not go well

I KNOW DAMN WELL THEY SYNERGIZE WELL WITH SHAGGY TOO

but no

we got mopped and we definitely werent getting outplayed

the fact that you have to rely on your teammate to bail you out of jail on top of relying on them to kill AND combo is crazy, I feel more like a detriment to my teammate than anything in doubles

like I feel like Im throwing if im playing powerpuffgirls in doubles

unironically

I feel like I have to swap off and play batman, harley, shaggy finn jake ANY ONE else i play to have a chance at doing decent.

[cobalt saddle]

Yea I def switch a lot haha.

Banana is def my main up at platinum so far

[ancient flicker]

they're just the ones ive played the most so i have them at the highest rank

i probs could be master alrdy with harley batman or shaggy tho

theyre so much better than ppg is rn its not even funny

[ancient flicker]

also these are just interesting #clips message

#clips message

id love to hear yalls take on these clips lol

[ancient flicker]

what are yalls takes on this? Think this is unfair? #combos message

[pure bay]

Nah, it's rlly good though

[ancient flicker]

I agree, dont think its unfair either.

https://discord.com/channels/879970800734711808/1009540458868899951

if we wanna talk about things that are unfair this is more up to speed lmfaoooo @pure bay

#combos message

better link ig

#combos message

this hits ppg

[pure bay]

Honestly just unlucky they caught your jump

[ancient flicker]

see i thought that too but

#combos message

this is the frame i get hit

soooo

????????????????????

[pure bay]

Yeah, jump nair

I don't see the problem ngl

[ancient flicker]

yeah, but that animation isnt frame one, hence why it came out when i got hit. I shouldnt have gotten hit considering this was teh frame before getting hit, im in jump squat here sure but nair isnt a frame 1 animation, they dont get giant frame 1, so i mean even then it doesnt make sense

[pure bay]

I don't get what you mean? Yeah it's not frame 1, but that doesn't make them invulnerable

They can be hit during start up

[ancient flicker]

dude what im saying is I shouldnt have been hit on startup regardless

I WASNT IN POSITION TO BE HIT

[ancient flicker]

as seen here

im just magically eating dair the next frame

[pure bay]

But you're on his feet though?

Idk what you mean but you did jump? And dairs do work like that

Especially since buttercup went past the platform

[ancient flicker]

it doesnt matter it shouldnt have touched me.Il go frame by frame later to be 100%. ig its possible its jank

ik im on his feet but i spaced around it

[pure bay]

Ok I'm confused. So you agree that your hurtbox is in contact with one of his hitboxes, and you think it should nor have hit??

[ancient flicker]

no, it hit me and im agreeing with the game on that but if you look literally at the frame prior I shouldnt have been hit

unless nair frame 1 hurtbox shifts

which ig is possible

actually after looking at it closer they do have a frame 1 hurtbox shift, and one of hte girls gos on top MAJORLY, so on start up you're just a giant hurtbox. so you have to pick and choose when the best times to use nair are. Wasnt aware it had a frame 1 hurtbox shift like this.

so ig it makes sense

but its still rEALLY jank

[green geode]

No thats literally my biggest issue with them rn, it felt like such a lazy way to fix them getting hit by everything, Id rather a character that can actually hit but is susceptible to more hits, over this

[ancient flicker]

literally this, I was hoping they would just giving leg or arm intangibility on some moves so you dont feel like you get clipped randomly but then nerf alot of their overtuned moves. But no they just gutted every combo tool made them smaller and didnt test them clearly.

[green geode]

It adds insult to their already neutered combo game

[green geode]

Oh veeeery clearly, I love whiffing dtilt because the devs didnt notice that, and Im scared they wont ever get resized back so we gotta deal with this forever

Imo if Gizmo is the smallest character, no one should be smaller than him for consistency, now PPG look like theyre in beta size

Just took away their combo game and stage presence so you can camp them easier too

[ancient flicker]

unfortunately they're probably never gonna resize them back to how big they were before. IF THEY FIX DTILT they will just make jab 2 send less far.

So phone combos more

and thats IF they fix it

[ancient flicker]

thats unironically a really good point

[deft vapor]

i wouldnt care about the size much if dtilt actually connected more than 50% of the time

[ancient flicker]

and it REALLY hurts cause alot of the nerfs they got last season were to lessen the capability of their combo game and dmg output like nair damage reduction, phone damage reduction etc. But now that they dont combo at ALL anymore or at least very little in comparison to last season, phone doing 6% or nair doing 5% with snow ball plus pugilist is just rubbing salt in the wound lmao

I didnt mind them doing that little damage before, cause they had use outside of doing damage

like comboing or whatnot

but now they cant even do that

[deft vapor]

the one funny change the character actually got was the buttercup throw on the ground

[ancient flicker]

nair doesnt do damage, doesnt kill, AND DOESNT COMBO, WHAT DOES IT DO? BE BIG?

[green geode]

It aint even big anymore either its hilarious

[deft vapor]

yea

[ancient flicker]

literally

nair is ass

and not even the good kind

[green geode]

How Finn gets to keep his crazy ass combo game despite various nerfs and a rework and we get gutted frame 1 is funny asf

[ancient flicker]

its just unironically bad

[deft vapor]

at least let it be a combo tool

they really like making the combo based character class not combo based

[green geode]

And people will tell you "theyre at a good spot rn" so theres a chance we go multiple patches with them in this state

Like atleast make them fun again

[ancient flicker]

Im on board with balance for ppg, I dont think nair should kill and combo or do a lot of damage and combo, it should do one or the other considering its size. BUt now it does literally none of those

also on top of all this

[deft vapor]

i can still somewhat get good results playing them i literally just want dtilt to be ya know

[ancient flicker]

with the size reduction shrinking our hitboxes

[deft vapor]

consistent

[ancient flicker]

THEY ALSO ACTUALLY NERFED THE HITBOXES ON A LOT OF MOVES

so now we have small bad hitboxes

on a small character

[green geode]

Its just not fun at all for me

[ancient flicker]

sair hitbox kinda sucked last season

but at least we were bigger so it somewhat worked out a bit

but now that were smaller its just so much worse its insane. The hitbox was already small

and now its even worse

[green geode]

I still wanna know why tf does Acrobattack send down now, it looks so bad the move is clearly not throwing you down

[ancient flicker]

you wont when shields are added, side b is one of our best moves rn, and when that becomes the easiest punish in the universe its joever.

[green geode]

It should send the opponent back or something to avoid the early kills, but down?

[ancient flicker]

its already super free to punish

but with block it will be even worse

[ancient flicker]

it does look dumb, but I dont mind it, its cool for edgeguards or offstage pressure. The previous angle was definitely better but IF we had nair dash attack or something to consistently combo into nair we could do dair nair dash attack into tech chase which wouldve been sick

but nope

no combos here

[deft vapor]

this is also the second character ive played which is getting blasted with annoying changes

[green geode]

I really dont want them to be a techchase character, or if they are atleast make the moves that groundbounce actually visually go down or attack down or sumn

[ancient flicker]

I agree they were really good last season, but tbh if they just nerfed aerial down special and removed zero to deaths along with giving them intangibility on some moves. They'd have been fine

[ancient flicker]

its impossible to tech chase with anything else now, nair doesnt send down or ground bounce anymore, Dair has a 10+ extra frame lock out before you can dair again

nothing they have spikes lmao

it was to remove zero to deaths iirc

and tbh air dash attack spike is the lesser of two evils

#clips message

Like this is cool but they had to be in burnout

[deft vapor]

this character is made to be fast but they are always getting nerfed to be slower

[ancient flicker]

mhm, bubbles speed got super lowered last season, which sucked but imo wasnt the end of the world cause they were still fast in advantage and could apply great pressure.

they just cant do that anymore though

[deft vapor]

nair just needs to be what it was last season without the stupid large knockback

which ALSO caused more 0tds

[ancient flicker]

yur

[deft vapor]

the change they made to the nair caused more harm than good

[ancient flicker]

literally just bring back nair at the end of season 3

it was the most balanced one i experienced

and didnt feel insane or anything

[deft vapor]

i didnt like the knockback much

[ancient flicker]

but felt like it had solid use

[deft vapor]

i liked launch nair better

[ancient flicker]

neither did i

[deft vapor]

where it kept them in place

and then you can combo out of it

[ancient flicker]

show a clip

[deft vapor]

i dont got one on me

[ancient flicker]

o

[deft vapor]

but its basically current nair without the 8 frame on hit

id rather stick to this character than my old main though

i have more fun with it

[ancient flicker]

I think you're talking about this one? Def the best one

btw

them making them smaller

and then giving them hitbox nerfs

was a double whammy

nair legit just doesnt work half the time even if you're in kissing distance to the opponent

and if they fall out (which is very common) nair is negative

and you can legit die cause of it

#clips message

[deft vapor]

bro the changes were released and they made TAZ's MOVES COMBO MORE RELIABLY INTO THE SECOND HIT

but NOTHIGN for ppg dtilt

[ancient flicker]

i unironically think ppg went from top 5 to like bottom 5

its not even funny

they're like a low midtier at best

maybe upper midtier on a good day

but definitely not higher than that

even in doubles they suck lmao

[green geode]

I feel like I just fish for stuff now instead of hitting something and having a combo I can cook up

[ancient flicker]

we just cant interact anymore, all our approach options got gutted and any combo tool / started we had was also gutted, so we just dont interact at all, and it sucks to do that in mvs. cause YOU DONT WANT TO, you want to play footsies and interact.

but you just cant

its so easy to get punished

[deft vapor]

they didnt even make it so ppgs downtilt doesnt connect this patch

but taz gets it

[ancient flicker]

and with ppg

you usually have to win neutral 3-5 times to take a stock now

[deft vapor]

i usually just get my combos from reads now

[ancient flicker]

where as you die in 1-2 neutral losses against some characters

its unreal

and by definition its unfair

you have to outplay and work so much harder than your opponent 90% of the time just because they have combos and you dont

[ancient flicker]

then its not a combo bro, THATS A STRING.

PPG HAS NO COMBOS ANYMORE

obv they have some im over exaggerating here

[green geode]

Its pretty much the same issue that has plagued the game since day one, characters with big hitboxes and explosive ass kill moves remain on top, the rest just sit there and camp you or try to jabversus

[ancient flicker]

but their capability was gutted, their creativity and ability to tie stuff together is just gone

no more build a bear combos

which sucks cause thats what made them fun

[green geode]

Now that PPG doesnt have their one thing they were good at, we just sit here waiting for anything

[ancient flicker]

you just dash dance in front of your opponent and hope they swing and miss and PRAY TO GOD you can get there in time to punish them for 4-12% lmfao

[green geode]

Once theyre at kill percent Ill just fish for (Bubbles) jab jab dspecial cancel into Buttercup utilt, or just jab utilt as any other girl

Or grounded dash attack

[green geode]

Literally

[ancient flicker]

sometimes if they REALLY mess up you can get like 20-30% with a jab combo

but thats only sometimes

then you just ledge trap / edgeguard

and pray to god you can keep them there

[green geode]

Oh and since no one really reacts to side special that well, Ill just throw it out to combo it into some other aerial, which as you said, bye bye to that when shields get added

[ancient flicker]

cause other wise its back to playing their game

[ancient flicker]

Its also not the greatest cause its not true out of anything, if they just di, or you know press the dodge button they can escape side special. Plus its super risky, if you do that near the blast zone and miss you just die, plus a good player (even if they're playing a slow character) will be waiting for you to side special cause they know, ITS ALL THEY HAVE IN TERMS OF AN APPROACH NOW LMFAO. so you can just wait it out and punish it, its really easy to do since they just go in a straight line and suffer endlag after. They wait for it, hit you and combo you into oblivion because ppg is light and for some god forsaken reason they made light weight characters get combod harder than heavy weights. So were light and huge and get obliterated in disadvantage. You go for the side b, get punished for 40% and then just have to pray your next approach works, or do something extremely risky like run in nair or dodge cancel sair. YOU CANT PHONE ANYMORE CAUSE THIS WILL HAPPEN LMFAO
#clips message

like bruh they just dont work anymore its crazy. @green geode

#clips message

[green geode]

LOL man

What happened why are we at this point to begin with

If they didnt have air dash for a perk we'd prolly still have a combo game I hate how its the main reason we got completely neutered

[ancient flicker]

they completely gutted that move too dude

– Knockback reduced to 2000 from 2600
– Hitstun reduced
~ Knockback angle made more downwards
– Knockback influence multiplier increased to 1.25 from 1.0

also for the first time earlier today

i had people fall out of aerial dash attack

it happened like 2x in a row

shouldve clipped it

[green geode]

Either they notice us crying over here or we go the rest of the season like this man

[ancient flicker]

potentially the rest of time, they will just see their playerbase drop dramatically, it already happened in rank lmfao. Their player base PLUMMITED this season. aint noone playing them. If im a comp player, i aint playing them etiher, why would i throw? lmfao

[deft vapor]

i just dont play ranked

i dont enjoy ranked lol

never been a fan of ranked in any game

[ancient flicker]

thats fair, but im not talking about ranked, im talking about tournaments

for money

[green geode]

I just got top 50 with them in 2s last season and stopped cuz I cannot take this game seriously

Mainly cuz I wanted their masters skin, idc for Raven like that so Im not tryna grind ranked

[light flume]

damn no fix on side air

[deft vapor]

i dont really care for the master skins in general

they kinda just feel lazy

[green geode]

Seeing Aeris immediately drop them was like, yeah our only representative knows they're washed too

[green geode]

Theyre not the best but I like having the shiny trophy looking skin with the cool clothes effect

I just wanted theirs and Jack's, maybe if they add another old era CN character Ill grind again

[deft vapor]

ive gotten every other ppg skin though

[green geode]

Hoping they get a skin for tomorrows event but I doubt it

Just seems be mainly DC, which is kinda tiring that most original skins go to all the franchises with multiple characters and not the smaller ones

[ancient flicker]

nope lul #combos message

[ancient flicker]

I shouldve played in tournaments with them last season, I probs wouldve done decent. Been saying i should play in mvs tournaments since literally like season 1 but never bit the bullet. And thats cause aeris is playing competitively, if he plays a character HE KNOWS IS BAD, hes throwing. You're playing to win at the end of the day.

[ancient flicker]

same i actually have every ppg skin

[ancient flicker]

idec about skins for them anymore, I just want them to be fixed / buffed.

[deft vapor]

can we give blossom like

ANY type of love

buttercup got good tools now

[green geode]

Yeah, I just dont find 1s in this game fun, or to be a game worth competing in with all the funky bs stuff it has, I dont blame people for playing it comp tho

[deft vapor]

i just hate fighting against certain characters

not with this character just the characters in general

[green geode]

Blossom having a killing nspecial is cool but like nothing combos into it, you can take away my killpower just let me combo into it

[deft vapor]

also

WHOS KILLING WITH BLOSSOM

😭

[ancient flicker]

blossoms frost breath is stronger nhow

[deft vapor]

yeah but

buttercup exists

[ancient flicker]

on certain di we have confirms into it too

but you have to play buttercup in order to use it

so like

[green geode]

I just use jab 1 uptilt or dash attack with her if theyre at kill percent and I need the kill NOW

[ancient flicker]

WHY NOT JUST USE BUTTERCUP

[deft vapor]

yeah exactly

[ancient flicker]

SHES STRONGER ANYWAY

LMFAO

[deft vapor]

her neutral special on ground ALSO got buffed

[ancient flicker]

you can do jab jab swap neutral special and it hits some characters with the last hits and its true

but like

bro

just use buttercup jab 1 upsmash

or jab jab laser

if that works

[deft vapor]

exactly

[ancient flicker]

those are so much stronger its not even funny

its completely ruins the point of even doing that

I do however think blossom is the best girl atm

[green geode]

Yeah the flashy stuff looks cool but theres no incentive

[ancient flicker]

i think bubbles sucks rn cause shes not much faster than blossom

actually

i listed it up here earlier let me find it

Bubbles isnt as fast as she used to be and her advantage got gutted, so the only real reason to use her is for footsies or like the fact that during jab jab down special, you swap into buttercup which can lead to high knockback finishers. But she can only get those off jab, so if the person knows how not to get jabbed good luck lol. Buttercup is too slow and gets ran over by anyone faster than her, sometimes people as slow or slower than her too cause she just cant combo like blossom or bubbles can (which is saying something because bubbles and blossom already cant combo as it is lol) Her upspecial is also the highest reaching so its good to catch people but you could accomplish the same thing by jumping and then upspecialing with blossom and hers kills WAY earlier so like its a mute point tbh. Bubbles gets outsped, outcombo'd and just ran over by people cause she cant trade like other characters can. Blossom can at least play keep away better with frost breath and also has the side b combo capability. AND KILLS EARLIER. Shes slightly slower but its not that big of a deal when the upside for playing bubbles is as small as it is atm. Plus as bubbles YOU DIE EARLIER. shes the lightest one.

this was my take

[deft vapor]

ive gotten some things off of bubbles stun but thats it basically

[green geode]

If you use chemical x Bubbles is prolly the best girl to go with cuz of all the bs you can get away with

But thats abt it

[deft vapor]

coming from a person whos played smash the fast low knockback character will usually be the best

coming from a guy who played a bit of pyra/mythra

[green geode]

Her reflect sucks too, why does reflect not refresh projectiles, like I reflect reindog's dumbass orb thing and it dissappears midway

[ancient flicker]

coming from me a person who has state level wins and pro wins in smash trust me blossom is the best rn

[deft vapor]

wow

[ancient flicker]

shes not much slower than bubbles

and kills so much earlier

the trade off is just not worth it

plus with bubbles you die SO EARLY

[deft vapor]

dont they have the same weight

[ancient flicker]

no

if they do thats mind boggling to me

cause I SWEAR i die earlier on bubbles

[green geode]

For a character that yeah depends on their switching for different combos and stuff they all feel really similar in terms of speed, with Buttercup feeling the worst but you dont really feel like you do much more with Bubbles than you do with Blossom

[deft vapor]

you just switch to buttercup for the kill and then back to blossom/bubbles

[ancient flicker]

literally this, plus blossom kills so much earlier than bubbles and her upspecial isnt THAT much shorter.

[ancient flicker]

literally everything i listed here is why i think blossoms the best

[deft vapor]

i kinda use all 3 so

youre kinda forced to anyways

with the cycled switching

[green geode]

Yeah I usually mix it around between Bubbles and Blossom then Buttercup for the kill

But I agree there should be more reasons to use Bubbles

[ancient flicker]

i skip past buttercup 90% of the time

and just play her when in advantage during a ledgetrap OR when i get a swap combo from bubbles

[pure bay]

ill be honest, the combos on any girl but bubbles tend to be way worse

ofc u can do switch based combos with all 3 of them, and u can get smth from all of them, but bubles just seems to be better

[green geode]

They are but Bubbles does not feel that much better at comboing with the current nerfs

[deft vapor]

hoping mid season we get something

[ancient flicker]

yeah, you want to play her so you can kill tbh, thats abt it, so you can jab jab swap butterrcup finisher

[pure bay]

nah, they hv interesting forms of doing stuff, that leads to offstage interaction

[pure bay]

all of them can kill and do dmg combos, what i mean is just general playing

[green geode]

Yeah but they all can do that, Buttercup just the only one who struggles at it more

[pure bay]

not rlly, her extra kb puts opponents offstage earlier

[ancient flicker]

to varying degress but yes.

[pure bay]

the most she struggles with is high recoveries but the other girls cover her so its fine

[ancient flicker]

butter cup is slow bro what

[green geode]

I mean in combos, she can still do everything else just again with more kb

[ancient flicker]

she struggles with off stage pressure too

also thats just not trrue

shes too slow

meaning she cant cover certain dis

[green geode]

And yeah usually dont be offstage with her anyways with her recovery

[pure bay]

offstage pressure isnt rlly based on how fast u can reach ur opponent

its how much u can cover, and unless they dont go high, u can prob just do that

[green geode]

Yeah but Buttercup doesn't cover as much as the other girls, she doesnt reach as far out nor has the air mobility as good as the other girls with upspecial

[ancient flicker]

the faster you are, the sooner you can reach your opponent and deny space, plus the more air drift you have and more air speed you have makes it inifnitely easier to pressure your opponent with your presence and wait for them to choose an option and then punish said option, this is edgeguarded 101. Speed definitely matters.

[pure bay]

yeah, not saying shes amazing or the best, just saying she can, and u dont always hv the luxury to swap around

[pure bay]

cover the stage instead, play for ur strengths

or rather the wall to explain it better

[ancient flicker]

okay

buttercups wall isnt as good

shes missing upspecial lmfao

also if you "cover the stage" you're giving up an entire area of pressure the other girls have over her that is really strong.

even if you dont kill them you can burn their meter

[pure bay]

the less resources ur opponent has, the less distance they can cover, if ur on the wall with buttercup and ur opponent has to go to the wall, would u just go back on stage to switch when u dont hv the time to do that? im saying i wouldnt, and i would just stick it out

[ancient flicker]

Im saying I wouldnt put my self in a position to have to choose, the mistake here was made before we even get them to ledge, you're playing buttercup which is just worse in advantage in pretty much every way unless they're at kill % (100%+)

but at that point

blossom kills anyway

so why not just take the extra movement she gives you lol

#patch-notes message

no ppg changes

tragic

[green geode]

Samurai Jack still giving weakened really not changing? Idc I main him too but cmon

[tribal thistle]

Batman's batarang perk also still applies 3 weakened

[ancient flicker]

imo if u use weakened perks u lame for that, I purposely dont use batmans weakened perk atm

[wet robin]

Ashamed to say I lost to a bugs mostly doing is side special...........it was the on cooldown version

[ancient flicker]

it happens man, dont let it get to you

[ancient flicker]

#clips message
BRO CMON EVEN THE CPUS ARE DYING BECAUSE OF THIS LMAO

at least i know its not just us now

[oblique elbow]

They really Shadow nerfed air side special? Wtf why

[deft vapor]

guh???

what did they do to it

[ancient flicker]

they also shadow nerfed jab, its so much less safe and has more whiff lag now. I compared footage from season 3 to gameplay now. and its so noticeable

not that they didnt deserve it, they USED to get so much off jab. But with how ppg is now, its just so extra, they alrdy suck, you telling me I cant even space jab smh

[deft vapor]

WHAT

why even

this character was ALREADY struggling

[ancient flicker]

i mean at the end of season 3 I think they were solid

[deft vapor]

oh

i thought you meant they just nerfed it mb

[ancient flicker]

no, they added that shadow nerf to jab during the first season 4 patch

[deft vapor]

im hoping midseason we get like

literally anything

[ancient flicker]

same, Some nerfs were warranted like aerial downspecial but i mean they just gutted every option lol

[deft vapor]

a lot of nerfs were mostly to counter 0 to deaths

so i hope with those gone regular players can get something

[ancient flicker]

i actually like some of the changes they made but they nerfed things that didnt need it like nair, (they couldve just nerfed side b aerial to remove zero to deaths) size decrease also hurt a lot, moves are smaller and combos dont work now

[deft vapor]

in theory the side decrease was good cause of how bad the hitboxes are

but it just didnt work

[ancient flicker]

yes but its possible to remove zero to deaths while still making it possible for the character to combo

[deft vapor]

yeah but if a character has a 0td theres a good 90% chance that comes first before actual buffs

[ancient flicker]

which is dumb, it didnt have to be that way

them making us just smaller was such a bandaid fix to us getting clipped randomly too

I thought they were gonna give us arm and leg intangibility on some moves but nah

moves just dont work as good anymore

[deft vapor]

yea

this character is usually just

trade central

[deft vapor]

also they couldve just slightly decreased the head hurtbox or sumn on the girls not in the front

cause i did not enjoy getting clipped a mile away from a jab

[ancient flicker]

indeed

also when u dash back

girls linger behind you

for like half a decond before they move

[deft vapor]

yeah exactly

[ancient flicker]

idk if thats a hurtbox or anything but i dont see why it wouldnt be

[deft vapor]

any type of longer jab you got clipped by

my biggest complaint of the game honestly is focusing fully on 0tds before actually buffing the character

i think they made it so you cant follow up out of aire side special anymore

☠️

i think they nerfed bubbles stun too

she stuns for noticably less

also the visuals bugged for side special and it just feels off to use now

they feel too floaty during it

[deft vapor]

think ill just go back to my old main until they make this character fun again

[vocal folio]

omg i thought i was crazy why is it so slow

dair feels so bad rn too like it doesn’t go as deep anymore?

[ancient flicker]

yeah been feeling that too, it just doesnt go as far as it used to, they claimed to just add endlag to dair so you cant spam it in the air. Specifically a dair lockout period for 10frames iirc so you cant dair dair dair dair at ledge ig? (which is dumb, if other chars can do it why cant i) But it also just feels like it just gos less distance now, Ive noticed a few times where il go for a dair and it will stop JUST ABOVE their head. Like whats with the shadow nerfs, their notes were alrdy a laundry list, might as well just be forward about the changes made lmaooo

some people will call us crazy and say were just complaining about things that dont exist. But dude I dont think its coincidental or a placebo if MULTIPLE PEOPLE who have a lot of time in ppg are saying the exact same things @vocal folio

now that I think about it, what we might be experiencing might be a side affect from them shrinking.

ALL THEIR MOVES got smaller as a result, including dair. So it makes sense now that I think about it. @vocal folio (sorry for the double ping.

[urban marsh]

Wait so what exact shadow nerfs happened?

nvm i just saw the side b omfg

[ancient flicker]

side b? Wdym? whats the shadow nerf there? also just scroll up and read lmao we talked abt jab, sair and dair. everything got shadow nerfed with the size decrease tho

[ancient flicker]

read from here @urban marsh

[deft vapor]

if you collide it doesnt go the full distance and bubbles specifically seems like you have a bit more on hit lag

and bubbles seems to go further so you cant combo into it

[ancient flicker]

this was probs to remove ztds which idm

but wheres our combo game lol

[deft vapor]

yeah

its to remove the 0tds

but it feels like way too floaty now

its odd

might just be me though

[vapid void]

Damn seems like a good time to take a break at this point

[deft vapor]

i just hope mid season we get some type of buffs

the nair change was so unnecessary especially now with the air side special change

[ancient flicker]

mhm, Im not a fan of size change, sair change, hitbox changes, and some other stuff im probably forgetting

[deft vapor]

the sair thing is almost defo a bug

cause theres no way youre supposed to fall like a rock

ive sd'd so many times since that change cause ive misinputted

[urban marsh]

normally im fine with 0tds getting removed but kinda wish we got buffs to compensate for taking the only thing we geniunely had tbh

also i think they could've nerfed side b a bit differently than this

cause now it feels bad on the other 2 girls other than bubbles as well

buttercup is ok since it kills upward but the other 2 are def worse

also is it just me or does side b in the air travel generally shorter too

[deft vapor]

yeah

it defo feels that way

[urban marsh]

hoping so much that we get combo routes next patch cause this is really bad

[ancient flicker]

lmaooo #clips message

#clips message

[ancient flicker]

#clips message
these are cool

but yeah we have no combos, just reads and chip damage

most of our moves do 4-6% lmfao

those damage nerfs were to lessen their dmg output during combos

we dont have combos anymore

but still have that nerf

like ???

the fact that I had to win neutral and then read my opponent 4+ times to get 80% is insane.

#combos message

[ancient flicker]

@urban marsh

also this #clips message

[deft vapor]

the motto for balance really seems to be remove the 0tds buff later

[ancient flicker]

which sucks cause like, DOES NOONE PLAYTEST THEM?

[deft vapor]

i guess not

[urban marsh]

yeah guess not

and mid season still isn't for like another like 2 and a half weeks

hopefully maybe when they hotfix that one raven perk back in we get something

[deft vapor]

i feel though they DO know that this character is struggling

i just want some combos back

i want the combo character that was made for comboing actually combo

[urban marsh]

tbh just revert the nair nerfs

[deft vapor]

LITERALLY

the 0td is gone from air side special

that should be enough

[urban marsh]

and rainbow dash too

since it sends down now

[deft vapor]

yea

nair could actually be reverted now

[urban marsh]

yeah

[deft vapor]

cause it literally cant cause 0tds anymore

[urban marsh]

The ONLY cheesey thing i could see nair doing is nair up b but even then it doesn't kill at 0 unless you're super close to the blast zone

[deft vapor]

yeah but i doubt this character actually has 0tds anymore

also we need a fix for down tilt if they are keeping us at a smaller size

and like literally every multihit

[urban marsh]

yeah

oh yeah i should bring this up

does anyone else notice how ppg can't iad out of jab like everyone else can for the most part

and also can't really do anything out of jab 1

it has to be jab 2

the only thing jab 1 works with is up attack

[ancient flicker]

They'd have to be blind not to, their ranked player numbers fell off so hard its not even funny, its not even half of what it was last season

[ancient flicker]

and size, them being small makes phone just not work

[ancient flicker]

and its not true

[ancient flicker]

just revert nairs hitbox and revert the size, and that fixes so many issues lol

[deft vapor]

yea

[urban marsh]

i said that as in when they revert nair if they do cause it was

[ancient flicker]

I dont think it should get reverted to release ppg

I do wish we could move upwards with it via dodge canceling tho

not being able to do that and move with nair really sucks

[urban marsh]

no no no

[ancient flicker]

i want nair back the one at the end of season 3

or the one before the kb / angle changes last season

[urban marsh]

thats's what i mean

[ancient flicker]

Im fine with them keeping the damage low if it combos

into upair

neutral special

dash attack

etc

jab

[urban marsh]

i want the season 4 nerfs reverted and bring it back to the patch before season 4

def not release ppg

[ancient flicker]

I agree with some nerfs but even then they were wayyy too hardcore

like

aerial down special

why is it SO weak now

[urban marsh]

they wanted to make it a combo move for sure

[ancient flicker]

i hit a jason with it at fullhop height @ 150%, AND HE LIVED WITH BUTTERCUPS. LIKE BRO ISNT THAT SUPPOSED TO BE THE STRONG ONE?

[urban marsh]

cause they advanced the on hit cancel window but the buff did nothing

[ancient flicker]

it doesnt do that either, it was clearly intended to be a knock away / kill move

[urban marsh]

ik it was the way they tried to change it by lowering the knockback and advancing the on hit cancel window by like 16 frames i think

but the buff to the on hit did nothing

[ancient flicker]

#clips message

I admit it was kinda dumb last season, (even if all you had to do is di away lmfao) but still it was kinda strong even then a bit too strong

but cmon

if i hit someone with buttercups

they should be getting deleted at 150% at fullhop height

[urban marsh]

it also feels like up air wasn't changed at all even tho they tried to buff it to combo

[ancient flicker]

hes alrdy in the air

[urban marsh]

like up air up b isn't even true still like they wanted it to be

[ancient flicker]

yeah lmfao, thats hilarious

[ancient flicker]

it doesnt really combo, or do damge or kill

wish it did 8% and buttercups killed earlier

if im catching you in a juggle with buttercup being as slow as she is

i should be getting rewarded

but no im not

And yeah upair upspecial being true would be cool, but its not lol

they literally mentioned that in particular in the patchn otes and it doestn even work like

how can i trust you when the patch notes are wrong

[urban marsh]

exactly

[ancient flicker]

you can definitely stall with it more in the air, which I really like, And its WAY better at chasing people, like upair can provide pretty solid pressure in a juggle situation when playing as blossom / bubbles esp if they used all their dodges or are in burnout. But like thats it lol

[urban marsh]

yeah i did notice it stalls a lot more

which makes me think that one base up air buff was put on the whiff lag and made it have less whiff lag instead of faster on hit cancel

cause they had the opposite problem in the late end of season 3 with finn

[ancient flicker]

which is great, they had a super predictable recovery that was easy to bait out and punish

and that adds more shmix

[urban marsh]

mhm

[ancient flicker]

but like that buff is nowhere near enough lmao

to constitute making moves not work and half our kit unuseable

[urban marsh]

is there any consistent kill confirm we have?

or are those gone too?

[ancient flicker]

we have some old and one new one

the new one is kinda OD im not gonna lie

but its niche and not something you can super rely on

we still have jab 1 upsmash, and like you know phone sair or phone upair or upspecial (if you can even land phone lol) @urban marsh

they are all a lot less consistent now

jab jab laser doesnt even work for butter cup now

if they hold away

[vocal folio]

That might be it 😔 tsk. i just wanna be cute

[ancient flicker]

which sucks because that wouldve been really strong with the buff grounded laser got

[ancient flicker]

frfr

[ancient flicker]

This is one of our new confirms, its pretty good im ngl, sometimes you can just delete people, but to get this, you have to land a jab lol (which is really hard considering its smaller and laggier now)

#combos message

@urban marsh

This works from 0 till later %. But You might have to jump upspecial or jump upair if you're center stage for example and want to kill off the top for example. So you have to slightly change it depending on where you are and what %'s but like its the same generally and really consistent

[ancient flicker]

starting to experience that this ^^^ "confirm" isnt such a confirm on some characters, some characters can di too far away in front of you for buttercup to hit them with upb so nvm lmfao

[ancient flicker]

like on arya its not true cause she can just hold away

and that mu really sucks rn

she just touches us and takes us to combo town, and we cant do it back, unironically the only way to win that mu is either to not lose neutral and win it more than them (dont get hit) or to cheese them.

[cobalt saddle]

Damn great to know. I havnt landed buttercup up special to realize the power it had lol

[ancient flicker]

LMAOOO this is too real

[ancient flicker]

yeah ofc! Glad to share stuff abt them, good or not.

its not that strong but if you catch (this was tested without di) but if you catch someone at ledge with jab jab into down special off stage, this combo is DEADLY. Ive killed people at 40 from it at ledge lol

[cobalt saddle]

That is so amazing lol

In 2v2 I was spending a lot of time as buttercup only just sniping with ground side special for kills.

I barely am using blossom way more now because of you

[ancient flicker]

so youre using blossom less?

[cobalt saddle]

Now I’m using her more lol

Before didn’t use her at all

[ancient flicker]

ohhh, good lol, glad I was able to help and hope that u using blossom more is helping

[oak lagoon]

[ancient flicker]

#clips message

this was sick

[ancient flicker]

@cobalt saddle we still making this character work somehow

[cobalt saddle]

Daaaaaaamn!

[ancient flicker]

also @clever juniper you wanted clips so here lol

[ancient flicker]

also this @clever juniper

[clever juniper]

Tysm ur soo cool

[ancient flicker]

of course, anytime!

[ancient flicker]

#clips message

PLEASE WATCH THIS @vocal folio @cobalt saddle @clever juniper @silver rapids @urban marsh ANYONE ELSE HERE LIKE BRO CMON, WASNT THE SIZE REDUCTION SUPPOSED TO HELP WITH THIS? ALL I DID WAS AIRDODGE TOWARDS THE STAGE LMFAOOO I AIRDODGED TO THE RIGHT

WHAT KINDA MAGNET HANDS BS IS THIS LMAO

[cobalt saddle]

Oh hell yea that was BS lol

[ancient flicker]

these streets are hard. Wish I could pin all these vids to the ppg channel lol

[cobalt saddle]

I’m pretty confident they are watching all of these things on here. Every patch shows me they really are listening

[urban marsh]

that happened to me once

[ancient flicker]

I have faith in them forsure, esp after they added my smith change suggestion

i literally talked abt jab 1

3 days later a patch comes out nerf ing his jab 1 lol

[ancient flicker]

#clips message

My Current thoughts on the girls Matchups. Some just feel unironically impossible, like the only way to win is to never get hit or just completely outplay the opponent in every way. in some of those bad mus you can only make so many mistakes before you explode, and we just cant do the same to them, its just so hard man.

tbh i dont have the best experience in nubia velma or gizmo, but I feel pretty confident about most of these.

Genuinely curious on what yalls thoughts are.

@cobalt saddle @clever juniper @urban marsh if yall are curious on what my thoughts are on their mus.

also honestly banana guard might be losing too lmfao, its so hard to get in on him and he just makes us explode sometimes.

btw nothings ordered in the tiers.

[urban marsh]

tbh i think jack is -1