Jason

[trail flicker]

It’s not fair

[serene mirage]

its almost like characters who specifically are tooled to keep enemies away get nuked when enemies get close

wow

[atomic cedar]

especially when one of said characters is the heaviest and hardest hitting character in the game

[serene mirage]

its almost as if you lose when you fail to play your character correctly

[trail flicker]

So how do I fight?

[serene mirage]

wow

[trail flicker]

I don’t play passive

Also Jason has loops

Jab jab dtilt repeat

This character is unchecked, needs reworks clearly

[atomic cedar]

no youre just bad

granted he's getting reworked regardless

but jason isnt a character youre supposed to attempt to be up close with

[trail flicker]

Im bad because i lose to a losing match up

[atomic cedar]

if you're playing gizmo or bugs your main goal should be to keep jason from getting in on you with projectiles

[trail flicker]

Ok

[atomic cedar]

jason is not a losing matchup for bugs or gizmo

[trail flicker]

😂😂😂😂

💀💀💀💀

Bro u never play against a Jason as bugs or gizmo

U wouldn’t get it

[river delta]

Actually insane to say Jason has a winning matchup vs Gizmo

He low profiles half your moves

[trail flicker]

Jason heavy

Gizmo lightest

[river delta]

He's also huge which means it's easier for Gizmo to hit his moves

[trail flicker]

Jason hits hard

[atomic cedar]

your literal only argument is that jason is heavy

ignoring the fact that jason is also the easiest character to hit with projectiles

[river delta]

Heavies traditionally have terrible matchups vs fast light characters in platform fighters

[trail flicker]

Use rage or teleport from projectiles

Easy

Countered my mains

[river delta]

I think you're really overestimating how good teleport is

[atomic cedar]

you can literally interrupt teleport with projectiles

and rage will go away after a few stray hits

[river delta]

Play Jason for five minutes and you'll see how hard it is to actually win against characters like Gizmo

[atomic cedar]

even at a max charge

[trail flicker]

Only projectile spammers who are good against Jason is Marvin and tnj

The rest nah

[serene mirage]

broooo

[trail flicker]

Stop downplay

[atomic cedar]

exposing yourself at bad at the game is a choice

[trail flicker]

You can do nair to close in

[serene mirage]

theres no way

[atomic cedar]

the nair that stops all forward momentum

or the nair (special) that stops all forward momentum

[trail flicker]

Still has armour and broken

[atomic cedar]

you can get rid of armor

[river delta]

You don't even know which Jason move has armor 😭

[trail flicker]

I do

Down attack

And Nair

[serene mirage]

...

[river delta]

It is literally only his aerial neutral special dude

[trail flicker]

What’s his neutral special in the air ? I forgot it

[river delta]

I can forgive mixing up nair and neutral special but I don't know how you got the impression down attack has armor lol

It's the grab

[trail flicker]

Isn’t that his normal attack

Oohhh

It’s the axe thing

My bad

[atomic cedar]

no move using jasons axe has armor

its the grab where he stabs twice and then slices sending players at a downward angle

[trail flicker]

And what about neutral attack on the ground

The most broken hitbox

Ever in multiversus history

[atomic cedar]

clearly

you havent seen harley nair

[trail flicker]

Not as broken as jasons

[lone ledge]

U clearly dont play jason

[trail flicker]

It doesn’t match the animation

[trail flicker]

I have trust me

I have played him in training

[lone ledge]

Cap

[trail flicker]

He is broken

[atomic cedar]

nobody's gonna trust you because literally nothing you have said regarding this character is correct

TRAINING????? 😭

[serene mirage]

this cant be serious

dude

[trail flicker]

#clips message

It hits behind

I even made a vid about it

[atomic cedar]

yes

[serene mirage]

AND...HARLEY NAIR DOESNT?

[atomic cedar]

have you never seen harley nair

[trail flicker]

Atleast it matches animation

[atomic cedar]

not to mention the fact that literally all of this should be getting fixed (also the axe does go behind jason, it makes sense that it would connect at least some)

[trail flicker]

Yes that’s the best way to test characters

[atomic cedar]

comparing training to actual gameplay is unserious

[lone ledge]

😂

[trail flicker]

I only played Jason once in 1s

[atomic cedar]

play jason against any character with projectiles in ranked and youll see why nobody agrees with a word youve said

we can tell

[trail flicker]

Even tho I lost against wonderwoman i noticed he’s really strong

[lone ledge]

Demo is trollin almost had me

[serene mirage]

hes gotta be

[trail flicker]

Wow

U don’t need to play a character to know they are good

What’s wrong with that

I lost a ranked game due to broken characters like urs #off-topic message gizmo definitely isn’t winning MU but its what ever

[atomic cedar]

you literally dodged inwards

knowing that jason's up b and rage

will surely decimate you

[trail flicker]

Rage is impossible to counter

You don’t understand ur character

[atomic cedar]

no youre just bad lmao

[timber cedar]

mate please just try to use armor breakers on it

[serene mirage]

"rage is impossible to counter" yeah im done bro 😭

[trail flicker]

I got robbed from my ranked game and get blamed

Wow

[atomic cedar]

you literally watched him call for rage

do an attack

[timber cedar]

this is clearly gonna go no where huh

[atomic cedar]

dodge IN while in mid air

[timber cedar]

whatever

[trail flicker]

Fr these downplayers man 🤦‍♂️

[atomic cedar]

you put yourself in that position

[trail flicker]

I had no other option

[serene mirage]

bro thinks people on his side 😭

[trail flicker]

Hé could teleport to me then do dair

I would die straight away

Best is to stay high in the air

[atomic cedar]

jason's armor only exists for 20 damage

with the amount of charge used there of course

[trail flicker]

20hp extra is crazy 💀

I need to main this character

[wide shale]

he also takes 15 dmg for that 20

and the armor fizzles out after 5ish seconds

[trail flicker]

His pros out way the con

[atomic cedar]

ah yes

[trail flicker]

I will main Jason now

Easy masters

[wide shale]

GL

[trail flicker]

Thanks 🙏

[wide shale]

enjoy losing every single exchange

[trail flicker]

All I need is teleport and jab

Easy win

[atomic cedar]

this is how i know you have never played this character

[trail flicker]

I did

[atomic cedar]

jason's jab is beat out by any other move in the game

[trail flicker]

In s2

I lost but it was my first game with him

[wide shale]

my favorite is dodging through someone as they come at me jabbing, i try to punish their back with my jab, but i just get sucked back in to their jab going the opposite way

[trail flicker]

Doesn’t matter tho

[atomic cedar]

pro: may be able to kill off a single read
cons: massive, easy to hit, has 0 speed, cant recover for his life, extremely minimal dodge meaning you still get hit by everything

[trail flicker]

Massive = heavy = dies late
0 speed = teleport
Can’t recover = teleport
No need for dodge = teleport.

Think about it you are playing a tank who can kill perfect in every direction and also has good way of getting around

[atomic cedar]

teleport does NOT work for vertical recovery

if youre on the side of the stage you're screwed

[knotty sage]

bait him into using an attack (besides mist), using an armor breaker, using a move that does at least >15 damage, waiting it out

[atomic cedar]

teleport is committal and again
can be interrupted

[trail flicker]

Easy fix us that one perk that brings you back one stage

When u die

[wide shale]

you can teleport up/down a bit from the air, but its his most predictable tool for getting back to the stage and people anticipate it

[trail flicker]

And quickly attack ur opponent

[knotty sage]

that perk literally kills you earlier than if you didnt have it

[atomic cedar]

resurrectionist is an absolute terrible tool

[knotty sage]

and also only works once per match

[trail flicker]

This is why u guys say there are so much cons

[atomic cedar]

im thinking moreso when you're on the side of the stage

[wide shale]

resurrectionist literally shrinks the blast zones for you so you die faster yeah

[trail flicker]

Not looking at the bigger picture

[atomic cedar]

or it could be because we play this character regularly

[trail flicker]

You can easily kill your opponent

After you die

[atomic cedar]

killing only matters if youre able to get a hit in

[trail flicker]

That’s an insane perk

[atomic cedar]

you can wait out resurrectionist

it literally lasts 3 seconds

[wide shale]

anyone can outrun jason

[atomic cedar]

a single teleport takes most of that time

[timber cedar]

resurrectionist is awful bro

[trail flicker]

3s is pretty long

[wide shale]

approaching teleports are very easy to stuff out though

[timber cedar]

it literally kills your earlier

[trail flicker]

Teleport then BAM

[timber cedar]

and you can just run away from Jason to stall it out

[knotty sage]

true
teleport has decent start up to be punished, is super predictable, and has no vertical recovery

[timber cedar]

it is so awful

[lone ledge]

Why are yall still debating lmfao

[timber cedar]

it literally nerfs you

[trail flicker]

U didn’t use teleport to get to them

[knotty sage]

not for a character who walks as fast as iron giant

[atomic cedar]

because im a sicko who likes to expose players as bad

[trail flicker]

Im not even bad

I will say im above average abit

[knotty sage]

i think you should spam tp as jason for a while so you can get a grasp for how it is not this be all end all tool

[lone ledge]

Carry on 🤣

Hit top 500 in ranked then we can talk otherwise im not feedin in

[timber cedar]

dawg just dodge away if he teleports to you

[trail flicker]

In character or overall

[timber cedar]

it’s not that hard

[lone ledge]

With jason

[trail flicker]

I got top 500 on gizmo that should be enough

[knotty sage]

or punish the very predictable move that puts him the exact same spot in front of him every time

[trail flicker]

Too many people play Jason

It’s impossible

Unclespameul

And other ppl

[lone ledge]

Imagine tryna tell people who mained him day one how to play with him

[knotty sage]

or trying to act like you know more than them

[timber cedar]

this guy gets it

[trail flicker]

Im giving them pointers

That’s it

[atomic cedar]

im literally top 500 jason

[lone ledge]

🤦🏿‍♂️

[timber cedar]

yea lemme take advice from the guy who’s played him for a game

[knotty sage]

you said yourself you have 1 pvp game as jason

[atomic cedar]

actually closer to top 300 but havent played in a few days

[timber cedar]

singular game

[trail flicker]

But I said I played training too

[knotty sage]

that means nothing

[trail flicker]

The Wonderwoman beat me to hard so I dropped Jason

I would play more

But I don’t see a reason

[timber cedar]

I’m just gonna go do something better with my time

[lone ledge]

Thats like being a mechanic tryna tell a fisherman how to fish better bro. I know ur trollin

Trainin mode rifts etc dont factor in real combat situations and u were cooked early talm bout the tele is unpunishable lol

[trail flicker]

But I did say u could punish with projectiles

U get hit if you try to hit Jason

[lone ledge]

Like i said ill gladly debate once u hit 500 ranked with jason and since hes so op i invite u to try hitting top 500 in 1v1 then let us know how that goes lol

Granted u dont break ur controller first

[trail flicker]

Ok I will play u guys will see

But i can’t rn

Since Nubia is dropping

She looks like a losing matchup

And everyone will play her

[atomic cedar]

i got to top 300 when the PPG released

[trail flicker]

PPG was broken when they released

No wonder 😭

Now they’re fine ig

[halcyon badger]

No way did I just see TP making Jason “broken”

[halcyon badger]

It’s crazy ppl complain about Jason, a sluggish character who relies on conditioning & reads to get kill confirms in a game where punishing is extra work. But all the other gimmicky top tier characters, it’s fine

[lone ledge]

My point exactly....we have to work astronomically harder than say a shaggy or ww to get similar results and god forbid ur fightin someone who is good with a good character.

[halcyon badger]

Also killing early aspect. I literally seen a bg kill at 30% with up special lol

Don’t blame the character blame the horrible blast zones and their death radius

[lone ledge]

Dont get me started on blast zones im actually rly surprised they haven't changed that yet

[final pollen]

absolutely broken and overpowered

[tiny cave]

Just dodgr

Up special is not broken

Just dodge

If u get killed early its bc he read you

[median geyser]

My goat

Got buffed

Some juicy buffs

[west cloak]

Oh my Jason might actually be a threat this patch

[queen juniper]

Brothers. Our boy is finally a real character now

Sleeping bag whiff recovery increased by 45 frames. I might actually start using that move now

[tiny cave]

LETS GOOI

[river delta]

Love to see good buffs. Kinda hate that we lost teleport during rage but I’ll take the tradeoff I suppose

[rugged cradle]

Darn they over buffed Jason not gonna lie

[tiny cave]

WHAT

[river delta]

It now consumes rage

[rugged cradle]

WHO CARES, JASON IS NOW A WW 2.0

He is so buffed this patch.

[river delta]

I do think the buffs probably outweigh that one nerf

[tiny cave]

Can someone make a summarize

On what they buffed

[river delta]

And I’m really glad to see that dodge bug finally fixed lmao

[tiny cave]

Now nair

Can bounce

Nair has spikes

Right

[rugged cradle]

Dude, I don't even use that feature, the best use of rage is for using it inmediately or get demolished by grabs or armor break

[queen juniper]

Jason gonna be a menace 🗿💀

I can’t wait

[tiny cave]

Like he was supposed to 🗿

[rugged cradle]

All his neutral attacks has advenced frames and his knoback was invressed

[west cloak]

Rage roar seems like a legitimately good option now that it applies stun

[river delta]

That’s fair. It was a fun mixup sometimes but not really a big deal

[queen juniper]

[west cloak]

And nair ground bounce is huge for combos

[tiny cave]

#combos message

[rugged cradle]

Yeah, like is something that should be at base in the first place.

Should consume rage

[west cloak]

Yeah see before nair sair was the only combo you could get and it only worked at specific mid percents

[rugged cradle]

These Jason buffs are really big.

[west cloak]

With nair itself causing a ground bounce, you can get other follow ups I’d imagine

[queen juniper]

Tomorrow we ascend 🗿

[tiny cave]

This october no one

In mvs is safe

🪓

[dry sinew]

We eating good, bois

[dire violet]

Another patch and yet again they still don't fix... wait a minute... could it be
"~ Fixed an issue where buffering dodge out of some attacks would dodge the wrong direction"
Yes!! He can finally dodge properly!

[trail flicker]

This has to be the most dumbest shi

Like ever

[tiny cave]

You mean the dodge bug?

[trail flicker]

No

Jason having more buffs than Jake and Beetlejuice

[tiny cave]

His tp got nerfed

He no longer kills at 60

Nor 80

Hes pretty balanced rn

He actually "takes skill now"

He is no longer "braindead" like everyone said

[trail flicker]

Imma be real

[tiny cave]

So whats the problem

[trail flicker]

Jasons barely kill with tp anyways

It was just confirms at edge

I get hit by sair the most

[tiny cave]

Yeah and some people were still crying about that

[trail flicker]

Or neutral attack

[trail flicker]

Ppl are outdated 😭

I was 1v1 my friend who plays Jason that shi doesn’t even kill like 60%

Maybe if the map has close deadzones

He had to follow it up

[tiny cave]

Yeah

Bc people exagerated

Its always 80

90

On tanks i think it was 100

People exagerated and guess what

We got more benefits than anything else

By nerfing tp

Nobody in the jasoncord cares about the teleport knockback

The only significant nerf they did to jason

Was the fact we can no longer

Keep rage while teleporting

But everything else compensates

Also we no longer spend 5 years trying to get out of sleep bag animation

[gaunt latch]

i lurked so hard i cant even comprehend smh lemme re-read

[tiny cave]

And we also have more combo game

Bc now nair

Can spike

Actually nair into bag could be true

So its our only true way to use bag

[lone ledge]

Big facts....dropped nubia that fast after seein patch notes 🤣

[tiny cave]

Nobody cares about nubia

They buffed my special boy

[lone ledge]

I did but my special boy got da attention he deserved.

Even if stun on rage hit is OD lmao

[tiny cave]

Nobody uses roar

The only use i can found to roars stun

Is kill confirms

And maybe combos into nair

[lone ledge]

Not if we miss tho

[tiny cave]

And sleep bag

[trail flicker]

That’s a crazy change ngl

They shouldn’t have done that

[tiny cave]

Tbh

Agree

Probably they thought it was kinda cheesy

[trail flicker]

Because there is still endlag to tp, you can just like prefire armour breaker 😭

[tiny cave]

the fact he cant keep rage while teleporting makes jason way more skill based

[trail flicker]

Hmm we will see

Im concerned about the neutral attack knockback buff

I swear didn’t it already have the most knockback in the game?

[tiny cave]

Probably they did it in purpose so we use that instead of teleporting for kill confirms

[trail flicker]

Devs don’t know anything abt Jason

[tiny cave]

They dont know anything about their own game

They dont even play their own game

[trail flicker]

They just listens to what social media says

Stripe barely got touched

Wait what happens in s4

[tiny cave]

Marceline and raven

[trail flicker]

I wonder how good they will be

Well I know raven will be broken

She’s DC

[young sorrel]

I wonder how we csn kill off of jab now depending on how big of a nerf the side special is

A lot of buffs but a potentially oversized nerf which may affect stuff since that part was really fun tbh

But..we will see

[halcyon badger]

Devs W

[odd oyster]

This plus the hitbox/hitreact changes might also help down the line when they finish that uodate

[unique pewter]

Except now teleport can get the rage buff which is both bad and good, like we can't teleport without expending it, but also hitting someone with a rage buffed side special will likely kill as easy if not easier than the old one

[dark sapphire]

Is it weird out of everything I’m excited to see the down tilt and nair angles?

[unique pewter]

oh yea the ground bounce out of neutral air sounds great

[fading hare]

What is Jason’s neutral special 2? I never knew he had one.

[trail flicker]

Doing neutral special with rage

The roar I believe

[fading hare]

Huh will test that out

Never knew that was a thing

Is it even good?

[median geyser]

It's definitely a roar or shout attack as called

[median geyser]

No it isn't, very bad

Sucky hitbox prior patch & isn't worth the shot at all

[fading hare]

Ok lol

[median geyser]

You can see the dmg btw

Increased to 7 from 5

So yeah dmg was also very bad

[fading hare]

Dang

[median geyser]

Not sure if it's worth using it but yeah gonna try it out

[fading hare]

I wonder if stun will make it even worth

[median geyser]

Yes

[fading hare]

Cause maybe you can get a slightly charged neutral attack off for a kill

[median geyser]

Yes

The bag is also very major change

Finally we can recover faster from it & don't have to wait till Jason pull out the damn machete out again

[halcyon badger]

The fact the change said 45 frames is crazy to me 😭

That reminds me Nemesis’s ult special in MVC

[median geyser]

What's knockback scaling btw?

Anyone explain that?

[unique pewter]

I think it refers to how much damage effects it?

[west cloak]

Each move has a base knockback that you deal. Knockback scaling is essentially a multiplier based on the amount of damage the opponent has and it gets added to the base knockback

[halcyon badger]

The more damage the more knock back

[median geyser]

I think the new mist might run the potential of niche instant kill of side air attack

[median geyser]

Ah...

[west cloak]

So if a move does 1000 base knockback and 20 knockback scaling, the move at 50% damage will then do 1000 + (20*50) = 2000 knockback

[median geyser]

So yeah basically... I think Mist got kinda nerfed there

[halcyon badger]

I’m not even mad. Nerf mist but gave us so much other good stuff to work with. Good trade off

[west cloak]

Moves like Jason mist, Morty grenade, and Taz nado have very high knockback scaling

They don’t send too far at zero damage but they have crazy knockback at mid and high percents

[halcyon badger]

I wonder how well stomp will be now

[west cloak]

The fact that Morty grenade previously had 29 knockback scaling is absolutely insane

[median geyser]

Nah we got new kill confirm either way

Which is jab 3 since it got buffed

[halcyon badger]

20 is good

[median geyser]

More than 19.5 which is Mist's previous knockback scaling

So yeah that's our new kill confirm

[halcyon badger]

Oh damn

[fading hare]

Maybe neutral attack can kill confirm off jab as well

[median geyser]

It isn't that strong I think

Not as strong as Jab 3

They deal same dmg though

[halcyon badger]

Pfg cooked with this patch

[median geyser]

Real

[halcyon badger]

Even got the bed bug outta here

[west cloak]

It’s about time too

[median geyser]

& they nerf ppg now

[west cloak]

It’s been in the game for far too long

[halcyon badger]

I didn’t read the full patch notes but I skimmed thru the top tiers and seeing the • icon was so relieving lmaooo

[west cloak]

Tbf, PPG nair was kind of a do everything button and the fact that they could do like 40-50 from just jab to dtilt to nair to down special was a bit nuts

[median geyser]

Although I think Jason is still a combo food

[median geyser]

Pretty much & their side special if I remember break full rage armor

Pretty insane

Ridiculous range as well

[west cloak]

More if you had the perk that makes their neutral special stun

[halcyon badger]

iirc u can’t even punish it as Jason

[west cloak]

I find it hard to punish as Shaggy and he’s among the faster characters

Maybe not anymore since a ton of characters got speed buffs now

[median geyser]

Yeah coz Jason couldn't do anything other than parrying

Even my sair attack couldn't reach

Also

Get all of those T&J mixups out of here

Man he was damn annoying with his bouncing Jerry/ball

Also

Don't forget the spike y'all

Faster spike now, more fun

[fading hare]

What spike?

Or his dair

[median geyser]

Yes dair punch to gulp

[fading hare]

I guess nair is a spike too

so nair to dair combo?

[median geyser]

Hopefully that works

But we'll see

Top 3 changes for Jason so far
1 - Sleeping Bag
2 - Shout
3 - Mist

[fading hare]

Do you mean just impactful changes cause mist is literally a nerf

[median geyser]

Yes impactful changes

[valid glen]

WE FINALLY EAT

[atomic cedar]

I hate these changes

The general combat changes specifically

[atomic cedar]

i cannot stand the dodge changes

[fading hare]

Well it’s mainly cause Jason relies so much on dodge jab. So now we have nair into jab being true which may or may not was already a thing.

[halcyon badger]

It was weird cause for some instances it wasn’t

Feels better so far

[atomic cedar]

im thinking more for catching

i used to do dodge-up tilt as a read

now that is just not a thing

feels clunky

[fading hare]

Idk maybe you could do IAD aerials for catching now but don’t know how effective that is

[halcyon badger]

Games so laggy rn

[fading hare]

It is always like that on new update

[fading hare]

What are Jason combos I should know cause I might pick him up as secondary or something

[high matrix]

JASON IS DEAD

The character already seems to belong to another game, he doesn't have any objectively good combo if you compare him with other characters like Batman, Finn, Superman or Garnet, despite the fact that they buffed some things, he's still a piñata that now has no combos.

The only joke about this character now is that you can take out the rival from above

[fickle ledge]

We are so back bros.

Except that side-b nerf.

Das gonna sting

[dire violet]

Oh I was wrong that Air Down Special doesn't cancel on stage ledges(I thought it was only platforms), but I'll still never go for it
#clips message

[atomic cedar]

am i insane for saying

i wish we were still nerfed jason

if it meant we could get the dodge into attack back

[atomic cedar]

side note

they shouldve made the roar a move you can use during the rage cooldown

[fading hare]

They should’ve made the roar good. It still sucks

[unique pewter]

I mean realistically you're almost never gonna use it, since the damage buff is better on literally any other move... at least it has a niche utility now in case you accidentally panic spam it when enemies are near you

[craggy lagoon]

rift is impossible to get all stars on without nubia

[west cedar]

So we be eating good?

[lone ledge]

Im still gettin destroyed in 1v1 lol

[dark sapphire]

This does not sound like the W I thought I’d hear

[dry sinew]

It's crazy how the buffs killed the few combo options he had. If they truly wanna turn him into a Ganondorf-type of character, at least make each of his attacks HIT REALLY HARD.

[dry slate]

Apparently the ones that did hit kind of hard had people complaining and lying saying they died at 50 from the middle of stage from TELEPORT

[rugged cradle]

Bro, Jason is a freaking piñata in the new event mode

[tiny cave]

They massacred my boy

[fading hare]

I thought he got buffed

[dry sinew]

Supposedly

[queen juniper]

Jason was supposed to be good after this patch wtf

The system dodge changes made it so he just gets punished after every dodge

[wide shale]

if anyone is whiffing dair and wondering why: jason lost the first active frame on his dair from the "buff", the punch isn't active until your fist is pretty much below you now

[feral cargo]

i was wondering actually it looked jank a few times

[lone ledge]

These "buffs" feel non existent so far

[dry sinew]

Yeah I literally just had it happen right now. So that's why. Terrific.

[feral cargo]

only one you will actually notice is bag if you dare go for it and the stomp change

[wide shale]

the nair change is nice

[dry sinew]

It really is

Probably the best change he got

[wide shale]

also the ground neutral axe is nice to just dodge in and let it rip without charging

at least in 2's

[dry sinew]

And Up Smash breaking armor

[wide shale]

it always broke armor

kinda? its a super fast two-hit

[dry sinew]

It did? I don't remember it having the purple effect thing.

🤔

[wide shale]

it never had an effect, but it did break armor

[feral cargo]

personally I couldn't tell much a difference for it. I think it has always had the ability to bounce them just not guaranteed

[wide shale]

it's just an easier/more likely ground bounce if they're low enough to the ground

[dry slate]

even with the two hit property, the first hit would ignore/break the armor and drag them in anyways

[median geyser]

It seems like the shout attack is pretty worth it now

What do y'all think?

[feral cargo]

I feel like it's still useless because most people just run from Jason anyway and it's a grounded neutral attack. Unless they're charging at you without armor breaks it'll probably not be useful in actual gameplay

But if you find use for it let me know

[median geyser]

It's kinda a reason to use rage

But even though they tried to make you whiff as possible

[median geyser]

It does have some uses simply coz of the stun

[feral cargo]

I mean after you've had somewhat consistent success using it. I got one good use out of it the other times stun didn't last long enough

[median geyser]

Why do you need a stun to be longer?

For charged attack I assumed?

[feral cargo]

I always use rage though.

[median geyser]

Yes but we're talking about shout here

[feral cargo]

Well if you get a fully charged rage then the stun it's long enough but without it then it doesn't last long at all

[median geyser]

I think it's still long enough to get free jabs

[feral cargo]

Maybe I use it for free axe grabs then

[median geyser]

That too ig

[feral cargo]

I use it a lot already. But a totally free one is glorious

[median geyser]

At least shout attack still has better usage post patch

Also Mist is kinda nerfed

It's usage is way less

[feral cargo]

I'm fine with this one tbh. Was tired of getting beat by the jab jab mist masters

I just want disjointed hitboxes on the axe and maybe an automatic rage meter that builds up from damage. Like every 30 damage or something he gets free rage

To help stop him being free combo fodder.

[median geyser]

Hmm

[feral cargo]

Even if they nerf the damage multiplier of it to compensate I don't care

But there's no reason I should get hit when I'm axe grabbing and they hit the tip of the axe and we both get knocked back

Plus IG has it so I don't see why Jason couldn't have it. Even if it's every 50 damage

He needs something for defense but maybe shields will benefit him a lot

[median geyser]

True

[median geyser]

Agree

He kinda need more armor

[feral cargo]

That's what i thought but unless they stop armor breaks from working on him it won't matter too much against the better players.

I usually have a good time against ww, but I ended up playing against the #16 Evo WW Player and it made me understand way more how bad he is

Rage is useless because WW's neutral air is one of her best combo tools and it armor breaks

[median geyser]

That grey health shouldn't be broken

[feral cargo]

He legit spammed that and combo'd me to death with it

Can't do armored grab either

[feral cargo]

It loses to armor break too. Unless you're saying it should be buffed to not lose to armor breaks

If they do that running from him will just be the meta afterwards

But at that point you could probably argue skill issue

[median geyser]

Yeah

That's the problem

It's grey health

Not some sort of yellow armor shield

[median geyser]

Coz we'd no choice to stop him from being combo food

[dry sinew]

Exactly. Iron Giant has that in form of his Neutral Special. Jason needs a reliable "Get off me" move to help in that. In Smash most characters have the "Sex Kick" (I hate that name) which are fast, usually Neutral Airs, that can help break combos. Maybe his own Neutral Air could be sped up a bit. It already has a pretty low range anyway.

[feral cargo]

That annoying Mario kick and the other moves like it 😂

[dry sinew]

Yup! Exactly.

Mario, Luigi, Link, Fox are some of the most notable examples of Sex Kick NAirs.

[median geyser]

True

[feral cargo]

I just want my guy to be usable in high tier play. I'm only gold 4 this season but it's still matching me against masters. I'm flattered that game thinks I'm that good but it's hard to rank up vs them with Jason

[dry sinew]

But frankly, I'd make Jason's armor from his neutral special immune to Armor Breaking, yes. Or at least resistant to it (instead of a single hit breaking it maybe it could be two or three). Because half the cast has reliable Armor Breaks, and every character can get armor break with the Dash Attack Perk.

[feral cargo]

Completely forgot about that perk

[dry sinew]

I feel you. Climbing with Jason is extremely stressful. I managed to get to Diamond 5 on 2v2 and it was a huge struggle. I dropped Jason altogether in Ranked because I don't want gastritis lol.

[feral cargo]

I made it to plat 2 last season I think but I wanted to rank tom up so I went over to him for a bit. This season it's reversed but I haven't tried 2v2 ranked much.

[dry sinew]

I'm not a huge fan of 1v1 in this game. The game's already tailored towards 2v2 so I stick with it. And I have a friend to play 2v2 with (he mains Taz) so it's nice to cook up some duo shenanigans. Haha.

[feral cargo]

I used to feel that way too. I think I stopped liking it after I started getting dual matchups with characters I find annoying. I've stuck to 1s every since. I am of the mindset that the mechanics of the game don't work very well for 2s but that's just me. So I'm a 1v1 nut now

But even for smash I hate playing anything above 2v2 and usually I exclusively play 1v1 in that too

[halcyon badger]

Same I love 1v1s but once it comes down to “dash dance in the same spot/ camp the ledge until your opponent makes a move” it starts getting dull

[dry sinew]

Exactly. It's way too boring to me.

I like the "organized chaos" of 2v2 and how kits interact with each other, like the passes from LeBron, the speech bubbles from Velma, entering Iron Giant's Rage Mode. It's pretty cool.

[unique pewter]

Totally agree, 2s is where it's at especially with all the unique mechanics which are totally useless in 1s

[valid glen]

2s are where it's at because this game isn't balanced enough for 1v1s to work

which is sort of fine bc it's made to be a 2v2 game, and it's balanced enough for that, but it's hard to take 1v1s seriously

[unique pewter]

I basically never play 1s unless there are a lot of missions tied to it

[valid glen]

sometimes if i'm slacking a 1v1 can help me really lock in, but only because one ranked set is 10-15 minutes of unmitigated focus and torture

[dry sinew]

I skip the 1v1 missions. They made the Battlepass accessible enough. I hit level 70 two days ago by just doing the dailies and weeklies but skipping all the 1v1 stuff.

[valid glen]

Yeah, battle pass is in a great place. Progress is a lot faster with missions but I can still rake in XP without doing any of the ones that require me to change characters

[feral cargo]

You legit #1 jason??

That's crazy even if you're top 100 that's crazy.

[dry sinew]

Back when I got to Diamond 5, I was the Top 60 Jason in 2v2. Felt good. I dropped Jason after that and now I dropped to Top 150'ish.

[valid glen]

lol in 2v2s, yeah

i think pumbafurry is still running the table in solos

[feral cargo]

I need tips because I'm getting tired of being juggled and Harley has armor break now

[valid glen]

you could try either learning to time the grab so that the armor eats her hit and you can get back to the ground, or using monstrous sidestep to help you teleport out from above her. Dodging/DIing down also helps with jason traps, since a lot of people just move as if you're gonna dodge up

it also helps to have a duo who doesn't think 2v2s mean you both do 1v1s on separate ends of the stage lmfao

secret third strategy: beg PFG to stop buffing a character with true combos that work at any damage and disjointed hitboxes that stretch out past twice her body length

[dry sinew]

I think that's the biggest issue with random queue 2v2

And it's where you see the most mistakes. Like, you see a lot of players in these situations where they knockback a character offstage and try to edgeguard instead of helping the teammate getting destroyed by the other enemy. Edgeguarding in general is much harder in MultiVersus than in Smash since you can climb on the edges and there are many ways to recover safely.

[valid glen]

Honestly. Like I can get not constantly having your teammate covered but being aware enough to bail then out even once or twice a match can make the difference

esp as a jason lmao

[tiny cave]

Only at higher percents

If your opponent messes up and get hit by it

It can be considered a kill confirm btw

Also nair into sleep bag is true

[lean storm]

@tiny cave ggs

only got 8 btw

[tiny cave]

Damn

Jason feels so garbage this patch

I feel him slower

[tiny cave]

Ggs

[lean storm]

he got so many buff tho

[queen juniper]

🧢

[tiny cave]

Literally i can only notice 3 of them

And they nerfed two of the best moves

[lean storm]

which ones

[tiny cave]

Teleport

And dair

[lean storm]

whats the nerf on teleport

[valid glen]

if you have rage charged, teleport uses it up now

[tiny cave]

You cant teleport while using rage

And less kill power

[lean storm]

you literally did tho, that i punished with grab

[valid glen]

not a ton less kill power (kills around 120 vs 100), but also axe got nerfed and rage up slash still kills at 60 damage

how does the new stomp feel? i keep forgetting to use it

[tiny cave]

No u didnt

Teleport consumes rage

I was already out of rage mode when you grabbed me

[lean storm]

ohhh

aight

[wide shale]

the dair change caused this: #clips message

not a fan of whiffing with it so much now

[rugged cradle]

What is doing last stand?

[queen juniper]

Likely nerfing it

[valid glen]

they did this with the third jump perk from beta too. if everyone's using one perk over everything else, maybe make the other ones better?

[rugged cradle]

But why? Last stand works fine, it's not the perk fault that the rest sucks.

[rugged cradle]

^

[valid glen]

like ofc ppl aren't using the dash attack armor breaker, half of the cast already does that, or have triple hit dashes that will break it anyway

[dry sinew]

Dair into Sleeping Bag too on lower percentages.

[tiny cave]

nerfs

[queen juniper]

Idk don’t ask me I’m not a dev for this lousy game

[feral cargo]

Thank you

[feral cargo]

Say less I'm about to have fun with that

[river delta]

I wasn't expecting nair to feel so strong after this balance patch. Comboing off of nair into sair or jab feels so crazy, let alone some of the wackier things like nair into down special lol

[wide shale]

my go to yesterday was nair -> nair -> jab jab -> whatever, usually teleport

i feel like a steven or a garnet or something now, just doing diagonally falling nairs as an approach

[feral cargo]

So we might be onto some good things

[scenic lagoon]

Jason in 2s rn is way better

[scenic lagoon]

It is not fine, because weakened is not fine

[amber phoenix]

I don't think it was changed

[minor radish]

Jason players are gonna be eating in a couple days

Jason's gonna get a day of the dead variant I just know it

[dry sinew]

Oh he has one

[minor radish]

Did they announce that one

[scenic lagoon]

They did say he'd have one

On stream

[minor radish]

Oh, neat. All the streams have been during when I work lol

[unique pewter]

So what exactly happened with the dodges? He does feel different in a bad way to me… makes me sad… I was hype for buffs

[median geyser]

The dodges are very weird now

It's like delayed too much & idk if that's the issue with the server

[unique pewter]

Yea I haven’t played other characters enough to be sure it feels the same for everyone but before the patch I could dodge an attack with Jason and punish them, and now it feels like I have to just outspace to punish, and if I dodge it has so much endlag they get another free attack on me, so I can’t dodge into the fray anymore, only away? Feels bad, because he was already slow

[median geyser]

Yeah that's very weird

Not sure if it's server problem but again, gonna play more

Yesterday I couldn't play well coz of the endlag

It's dumb

[dry sinew]

The global changes to ground side dodge feels a bit weird, yeah.

[valid glen]

is the day of the dead one the same as the halloween costume one that i have to deny ever seeing bc of rules against leaks?

if not i could v easily see a fun skin with his mask painted sugar skull colors or smth

if they do more summer skins next year i'd also beg for a lifeguard/camp counselor skin for him

[dry sinew]

Halloween Jason is him dressed like Finn

[tiny cave]

Hes talking about the dia de muertos skin

[lone ledge]

Our special boi feels worse for sum reason

[unique pewter]

Ye I think it was the dodge changes... they hurt his dodge jab really bad, which he kinda needed since he's so slow

he still kills the same, if not better, if you space everything right, but you can't dodge into the fray like you used to

makes his jab feel rough

[valid glen]

Yeah, his wavedashes aren't connecting like they used to. Things are definitely Different

[wide shale]

its a sacrifice i'm willing to take to stop the jack and shaggy dodge in jabs

[queen juniper]

But Jack and shaggy still have privileged jabs that out prio Jason’s

Even with nerfed dodge jab. Pfg thought they changed things but realistically didn’t

[dry sinew]

They nerfed the knockback on the Ground Neutral Attack and Side Special, though, which were his best kill options.

[round hamlet]

Top tier characters are still the same, shaggy is the same, smith is the same, batman is the same nothing changed

[queen juniper]

I know I’m aware

[atomic cedar]

i hate jack

[dry sinew]

Worst of all: Jason's hurtboxes are still terrible because they didn't fix it. I just lost a trade against a Shaggy with a perfect spaced SAir versus his uncharged Ground Neutral Attack. Ridiculous.

[rugged cradle]

So what happened to weakened?

[tiny cave]

You mean the perk?

[rugged cradle]

Yeah, last stand and weakened as a whole

[tiny cave]

They nerfed last stand

They removed the perk for adjustments

[rugged cradle]

Well is back and is exactly the same so what they exactly nerfed?

[tiny cave]

Idk

They removed it for some reason

[valid glen]

You can't select it, but if you already had it equipped it's there until you change it

[rugged cradle]

Booooo

[scenic lagoon]

They nerfed empty dodges, not dodge jabs

[fair jetty]

Is there any good up to date jason guides?

[scenic lagoon]

No but there is a Jason server

[fair jetty]

You got a link?

[scenic lagoon]

Sure I do

[west cedar]

Mind shooting it my way too?

[lapis meteor]

i did afunny

[median geyser]

What's the nerf?

[scenic lagoon]

If you don't dodge anything with a forward dodge on the ground, there's 10 extra frames you cannot do anything

[median geyser]

So basically

If I dodge forward

Then I can't do jabs immediately right?

[scenic lagoon]

If you dodge forward without quickly doing a jab, yes

If you dodge jab (Which takes more dodge meter) then no

[median geyser]

That explains why

Why did they nerf that?

[scenic lagoon]

Because empty dodges were extremely safe

Made running away with them criminally easy

[median geyser]

Fair enough

[rugged cradle]

It doesn't changes Jason. Why people believe this is a Jason nerf? I prefer 100 times dodge cancel rather than just dodge and jab.

[median geyser]

Dodge cancel?

[rugged cradle]

Dodge cancel is the technique that consumes two bar of dodge bar, it consists in doing an attack input at the same time you dodge for gaining a speed output.

[median geyser]

Ah I see

But yeah It'd cost quite lot of stamina

[scenic lagoon]

You can also just...

Wavedash

[rugged cradle]

Yeah, Jason hitbox isn't that big

[scenic lagoon]

Jump, dodge into the ground and forward as you're landing, use jab

[rugged cradle]

Just move a little bit to the right or left and jab

The jab priority system sucks.

Jab has still priority against some moves and specials.

[scenic lagoon]

Cause it's a big move

[rugged cradle]

But they explained into the verse that every jabs has the lowest priority against any strong move. So yea, size doesn't matter

[scenic lagoon]

Size does matter

People expect every move to just delete the jab from the game the moment they make contact

If your hitbox hits at the same time as the opponents jab, then yours wins. If yours misses, the jab is STILL going to hit

[sturdy wind]

Should I get Jason? Been wondering about getting him for a decent amount of time but idk how good he really is right now

[unique pewter]

I love him… he is not s tier and prolly never will be so as a casual player in 2s and ffa I have a blast with him… but if you’re looking to take a character to ranked 1s and you get tilted easily I don’t recommend it

If you’re a casual player I think he’s one of the most fun in the game

[sturdy wind]

Yeah, I don’t think I’ll try to grind him in ranked 1s or anything like that

Got Finn and Shaggy for that already

[wide shale]

he's fun but you'll suffer

[queen juniper]

I finally hit the airwalker to sleeping bag combo while edge guarding to end a match. That felt good

Raged sleeping bag also

[tacit pivot]

You know what

I wish that monster side step was HOLD side special to teleport to someone

[tacit pivot]

LETS GGGGOOOO!!!!!!!

[dry sinew]

You'll suffer but you'll get better at the game as a whole. I can't stress enough how much playing as Jason taught me to be patient and read the opponent. Or baiting bad habits and retaliating.

[valid glen]

the way my ass is never ready for the nubia matchup 😔

[tiny cave]

I havent seen a single nubia

Like never

[valid glen]

theyre out there and they're Brutal

[scenic lagoon]

Nubias have told me it's a bad MU

[feral cargo]

Played against one as Jason and let out a sad kikiki.

Never gonna be able to win that match up

[scenic lagoon]

Strange

[storm falcon]

I wonder if the devs would ever make Jason's machete disjointed

[tiny cave]

They prefer making him braindead over that

[queen juniper]

I had a thought the other day, it would be cool if they let you angle Jason’s sleeping bag throw upwards as well. But that’d be cool so of course pfg will never do it smh

But I think all of his grabs should be buffed in some slight way to make him truly “feared” like they said he would be but isn’t

Like all Jason grabs hit any/all enemies in the hurtboxes during active frames. The grab may only grab 1 enemy but the hit grab portion would still hit the other enemy teammate as well with regular knock back and damage

So many times I hit my grab on 2 enemies at once but only 1 gets put in stun or even hit by it so the other usually just smacks me and interrupts it

[lone ledge]

I didnt wanna believe this until the most recent patch

[rugged cradle]

Jab jab side special

Jab jab side special

[scenic lagoon]

They nerfed it though

[rugged cradle]

Still too good, 19.5 to 15 is nothing.

[lapis meteor]

Oh yeah

At what % it kills

[dry slate]

Kinda delusional when it kills light characters at 120% as a heavy/tank ngl

[rugged cradle]

15 knockback is the same as joker wild card I think is enough

[dry slate]

Again, kills light characters at 120% when Jason is a character meant to kill early

[rugged cradle]

I will test this in a few hours. I don't believe it will kill at that percentage

It kills way way more earlier.

[dry slate]

Maybe 100% at ledge for light characters

But I was also counting di up, making opponents live longer

Just because the training bot dies at 100%, a competent player can di up to live longer

[rugged cradle]

Sure bud

[valid glen]

He's a tank, not an assassin.

Plus give him enough damage buffs and the difference between killing at 100 and 120 is negligible

[rugged cradle]

I don't consider Jason having bad kill confirms for being dependant of jab jab side b

We have, air down special, side neutral air, up special air special, up neutral ground and air, neutral air special, dash attack.

And for spikes we have Down air neutral

[median geyser]

It's pretty weak imo now...

[median geyser]

What about 3 jabs as of now?

[rugged cradle]

Well that's double moral, people complain of wild card but not of that.

[median geyser]

The thing about Jason's attacks are that they have ridiculously slow startups

[median geyser]

It doesn't affect much but I'm just saying it's clearly not as strong as before

[rugged cradle]

Ridiculously is a heavy word, Jason is not that op, but he is not that bad.

[dry slate]

Teleport doesnt track players and armor break

[median geyser]

I feel like I don't wanna be a combo food in the air, makes things pretty bad

Especially it's a nightmare fighting against Batman

[rugged cradle]

Correction, wild card doesn't counts as a heavy projectile anymore.

Second is inconsistent, is rng dependant, and player needs to be very pad player for being caught in a Bad position.

While the other is a easy kill confirm that make the character toxic dependant of it. Which is not the right way for leading Jason.

The side b is a good step, Jason was really in a toxic relationship with that combo.

He needs buffs in other abilities

[median geyser]

Dair special? Nah man that move is extremely hard to get the kill confirm, it can be strong when you hit it but it's pretty bad in terms of general usage

[rugged cradle]

Okay, in that case let's give armor to jack grab.

[median geyser]

How is utilt ground a kill confirm?

[rugged cradle]

Would you like it?

[dry slate]

You're kidding, right? The Wild Card perk is the equivelant to TF2 random crits

[rugged cradle]

You are still hurt by it even after nerfs? Come on, it is in the past

[median geyser]

Wym Jack grab? What's that has to do with a move that's left Jason to be extremely vulnerable?

[dry slate]

Also, I wanted to ask, how do you know the information on Wild Cards knockback value? That information has been inaccessable in the files sinces season 2

[rugged cradle]

Nothing, is just pfg and players double moral, you just said it, is not that strong.

[dry slate]

Jab3? It's ok, it's just slightly better than teleport now

[median geyser]

The knockback I think is larger right?

[rugged cradle]

It's literally in the patch notes dude.

[median geyser]

Do me a favor & answer this, what makes you think dair special strong?

[rugged cradle]

I didn't say it strong

I literally give you the reason

[median geyser]

Double moral of what? Like what???

[rugged cradle]

That I just wanted to acknowledge similar moves between characters. Why this one yes and why this one not?

Good Moves≠Strong moves

Not all the time

[median geyser]

Then why are you comparing Jack's grab with Jason's dair special?

[dry slate]

Alright then, that's my bad, but the wild card is still better than teleport. Comparing two seperate completely different property moves is not a good move tbh. One breaks armor, tracks players, and does more knockback and damage (random crir basically). The other is weaker than before, kills light characters at 100-120, and now consumes rage. You know how mad every Jason player was reading that teleport consumed rage? We had to be forced to play passively like a @#$%&

[rugged cradle]

Because people tend to hate Jack grab, but defend Jason one.

The philosophy of this is. Why? I want to understand why some characters that share similar stats moves (not necessarily in concepts but in data) one is consider good and the other not.

[median geyser]

You mean the neutral special?

[rugged cradle]

• Fixed Joker card not being classified as a normal projectile
  ~ Fixed certain projectile clank interactions

Keep it with the armor break.

But that's not the point dude, im talking about side special for Jason is still very good.

[rugged cradle]

Ok, I'm starting to noticing we get all along confused.

Of which move we are talking.

[median geyser]

I was talking about his dair special that Jason has

& suddenly you switched to Jack's grab???

Th man?

[rugged cradle]

I was thinking you where talking neutral special dude.

My bad

Okay in that situation

Is a really bad spike.

Not gonna lie

[median geyser]

It's definitely one of the worst Jason's move yes but very rewarding if hit

[valid glen]

I wish the second slash was a button input instead of automatic

[median geyser]

I think I barely seen many Jason players use that move often

[median geyser]

This

[rugged cradle]

Yeah, but you have to admit even if Jason is a troll pick in doubles that move is really good in those situations.

[rugged cradle]

That would be a good change

[median geyser]

As a 1s player, definitely a move that isn't in good shape when playing against experts

It's startup is damn slow

[rugged cradle]

Although the hitbox is disjointed

So you can get very lucky

[median geyser]

It's quite situational because the 2nd slash can be interrupted

[rugged cradle]

By another disjointed move

And this is multiversus

Everything is about disjointing

[median geyser]

Well ig...

[rugged cradle]

Anyway, sorry about the confusing of neutral air special.

I thought you where thinking it was a bad move.

But you where talking of dair special, which is objectively terrible.

But still a situational kill confirm

[median geyser]

About that command grab, I think it's an okay move...

[median geyser]

Only if you get lucky or people are dense enough to not realize it's coming

[rugged cradle]

At the end of the day kill confirm is a kill confirm, even if its bad, not many characters can have that type of knockback in many of their moves.

[median geyser]

I also don't know why you think the bed is a kill confirm

[rugged cradle]

Idk, maybe because it shares a little bit more knockback with shaggy, it armor breaks and can catch-up sometime times very nice.

[dry slate]

Bed is a kill confirm if you charge it up and your opponent is dumb walking into it instead of waiting it out

[rugged cradle]

At the end it leads you to a vertical knockback that you can follow with a uair special prediction.

[median geyser]

I disagree

Shaggy's utilt ground is a lot stronger than Jason's bed

[median geyser]

Yes, prediction...

[median geyser]

Fair enough but if you let it uncharged then nah

[dry slate]

Not stronger, but definitely has way more uses than bed can

[rugged cradle]

Not because of the knockback because that is not true, but I would agree is very slow, startup sucks and endlag is horrible.

[rugged cradle]

^

[median geyser]

What?

[dry slate]

Endlag? On shaggy? Unheard of

/j

[rugged cradle]

That shaggy up tilt doesn't have stronger knockback, but is faster and have less whiff.

[rugged cradle]

I was talking about bed sucking

[dry slate]

O

[rugged cradle]

Okay I will rephrase it, Shaggy move is not stronger in knockback or damage, but I will agree your statement about Jason bed being slower, and more punishable.

[median geyser]

I thought it's stronger though...

I mean the knockback...

It kills around roughly 90-100 if you get a hit on it

[unique stone]

idk man jokers wild is still really strong, they shouldve nerfed its rng

but since they kinda fixed jokers up special using runaway inflation is a solid choice

[rugged cradle]

No it isn't, the problem is that you feel it stronger because shaggy is shaggy and an stack you in damage very quickly

[median geyser]

So you telling me they've same knockback values & scaling?

[unique stone]

since before if u let go of the charge u always recieved a pint-sized balloon

[dry slate]

If the opponent has weakened/last stand, it will

[median geyser]

Jason does the same?

[dry slate]

Yeah, but it's also a slow risky move

[median geyser]

Hmm okay...

[dry slate]

Doesn't help that they added more endlag for bed on both whiff and hit. Bed to Uair apparently doesn't register as "true" until higher percents where the opponent would be in slightly more hitstun

[median geyser]

Stomp kinda better than bed right?

[dry slate]

Stomp is actually really good for combos now

Genuinely made that move a lot better this patch

[median geyser]

I see

Yeah

But wait what did they do to the command grab?

Coz it looks kinda odd & the last slash you'd push the opponent directly to the ground

[dry slate]

It's been like that if they're at lower percents

Nair can combo into it for an interesting tech chase afterwards

[median geyser]

Yah but what did they do to it?

[dry slate]

Nothing. Aerial Neutral Special grab was left alone I believe

[median geyser]

Hmm I see

[rugged cradle]

Let me test in a few hour to tell you, in think Jason has higher knoback an damage.

[west cloak]

Ok so I see where the issue is with the confusion around Jason bed vs Shaggy utilt. Jason bed has more knockback than Shaggy utilt when uncharged, but Shaggy utilt has more knockback when fully charged. But Jason bed has even more knockback than that when Jason has rage

Fully charged Shaggy utilt kills at like 70-80 whereas Jason’s bed without rage when fully charged kills at more like 80-90

[valid glen]

i think the better comparable would be shaggy's up-special vs jasons ground utilt. What does that kill at with rage?

[west cloak]

I have no idea why the charge multiplier is so insane on Shaggy utilt btw

[west cloak]

Raw Shaggy grounded up special kills at like 90-100 depending on the character. With rage, idk it kills at maybe 80?

Rage actually doesn’t make Shaggy grounded up special kill that much earlier all things considered

But it apples 3x weaken, so the next Shaggy move probably will kill

Shaggy rage up special has very high base knockback but lower knockback scaling

[tiny cave]

Side neutral special?

Tf is that

[rugged cradle]

Darn

[tiny cave]

Wild card is a ranged weapon

🤓

And its random

[rugged cradle]

There, I fixed it.

[tiny cave]

Wdym fixed

And tp no longer kills at 80

[rugged cradle]

I was talking about knockback anyway both abilities are not hard to hit

[tiny cave]

It kills at 100

Most jasons dont even use the tp anymore for confirms

We now use nair combos

[rugged cradle]

Good, it was a toxic relationship

[west cloak]

This second part is not true btw. Most Joker players will just throw a card after literally any combo and god forbid you miss the dodge timing and it’s a joker card because you’ll just die

[tiny cave]

True

Ur comparing a mage with a tank

Bruh

[west cloak]

It’s not a “you only get hit if your bad” kind of move

It’s a “let me add free pressure after a combo” kind of move

If you don’t have any dodges left and get caught in a combo or you’re in burnout, there’s quite literally nothing you can do

And avoiding burnout entirely is nearly impossible for most characters since a lot of combos in general require dodges or dodge attacks, and dodging in general is just really good

Plus you burn half a bar any time you use armor which massively affects characters like Superman

[meager violet]

anyone had a pic of jasons finn skin?

[valid glen]

rules don't allow us to talk about leaks, but if that were a skin coming out, and there were pictures, i'd tell you to just twitter search "jason finn"

but, because it hasn't been officially announced, i don't know if it is, or if there are, and i'm not telling you to do that

[tiny cave]

Its not a leak

They showed finn jason

In itv

[lapis meteor]

What got changed is knockback scaling, aka, its less effective at higher % than it was before

Joker's wild has the same kb scalling but more kb as far as i am aware

[rugged cradle]

no, shaggy deals 15 damage jason 17, jason knoback is 1.1x while shaggy is 1x

[median geyser]

A'ight...

[queen juniper]

What if resurectionist got replaced by a perk that made all of Jason’s grabs have super armor. They can’t be interrupted once they connect

Death grip 🗿💀

[rugged cradle]

Resurrectionist would be good if Jason can use the perk every stock.

[acoustic pollen]

Is there anyone here who's good at Jason? I would really appreciate any advice to get better at it. Especially against Agent Smith, Samurai Jack and PPG.
I can't find good advice anywhere on YouTube, so I decided to come here for advice on how to get better at Jason. I like to play it, but I keep losing on it. I will be glad of any help

[scenic lagoon]

No, it'd still be awful

[queen juniper]

False. It’d still be a really ineffective perk

[rugged cradle]

I said good, not op

[dry slate]

It wouldn't even be good either. It kills Jason earlier than he would since the detection for Ressurectionist is for the old prepatch blastzones, not the current ones

[rugged cradle]

And what if they don't do it like that? What if they dont bring back Jason and make him not receive damage for the same time next stock?

[dry slate]

What?

[rugged cradle]

Something like this:

Resurrection:
-Everytime Jason or an ally is knocked out into the blast zone, before point calculation. Spawn again for a few seconds receiving damage and knockback immunity, while also dealing extra knockback in your attacks. After resurrection duration ends you will disappear and the point will be given to your opponent

[dry slate]

So he spawns in with his rage buff

[rugged cradle]

Yeah. So in this situation instead of just bringing Jason back if he is near the edge, he just actually dies, but the point calculation will only occur after the resurrection ability ends.

[dry sinew]

Spacing is key with Jason no matter who you're fighting; which is kinda hard since a lot of Jason's hurtboxes are currently broken and results in him losing a lot of trades he normally wouldn't.

Jason's gameplay fits the heavyweight archetype you see in Smash Bros., which makes him more suited for a bait-and-punish style, where you try to capitalize on mistakes and bad player habits. For example, against Agent Smith and Jack you can almost always jump over them if they're running towards you because they WILL use their Dash Attacks or Side Specials.

Jack in particular is annoying to deal against because his Jab 1 is massive and can often interrupt anything Jason is trying to land. You can also bait his Side Special with a Air Neutral Special to grab him right when he dashes.

Agent Smith can be hard if he manages to close in, but Jason has advantage thanks to his superior range. Try to wall Smith with Side Air Attacks, and like I said before, simply jump over his Dash Attack and Side Special; Smith players tend to use those a lot and it's plain obvious when they're gonna do it to close the gap. Similarly to Jack you can also use the Air Neutral Special to grab Smith during his Side Special.

The Powerpuff Girls are slightly harder to deal with than Smith. They also don't have a lot of range, but the most annoying thing is their Side Special (since the girl who gets sent doesn't have a hurtbox), as well their small size which can result in a lot of Jason's moves whiffing. Luckily they don't have a lot of good approaches and most PPG player rely on the Jab > Jab > DTilt > NAir combo to do anything; so just try to avoid their jab sand you should be fine.

[amber phoenix]

Nah it would be likely sell out for no reason

[amber phoenix]

Maybe you might use air armored grab but it's quite edge guard while high damage

[nova hill]

So, would Jason be better if Shields was implemented as they said

He has two command grabs, and can now block attacks

[halcyon badger]

Shield button I’m about to become top ranked Jason now

[halcyon badger]

Way better

[dry sinew]

Absolutely. Shields alone will make Jason leap at least one tier. Him having more defensive options will make zoners far less oppressive.

And since he has four grabs he'll be able to put pressure on shielding opponents.

[devout burrow]

shielding will be

fine for jason

watch shield breakers also be armor breakers

that would be kekws in the chat

[halcyon badger]

Lol I didn’t even think of that

[tiny cave]

Yes

Has 2 grabs

Rage

ARMOR BREAKERS CANT GO THROUGH SHIELD

So if for example a character doesnt have grabs ur literally unstopable

You can chsrge rage and if they try using armor breaking moves you can just cover and punish

[nova hill]

There is universal shield breaker, but that’s universal.

The old Armor breakers are safer on shield, though they dont break them

Meanwhile Jason has that, plus universal ways to handle shield, plus multiple command grabs

[tiny cave]

Yeah but even if there are universal ways

I think they cant do in the air

Ur getting rid of ww nair

[nova hill]

Yeah, meanwhile Jason has an aerial command grab lol

They could try to chip out the shield, but that’s universal, Jason could do that too, along with his command grabs

[dry sinew]

I think Jason and Agent Smith will rise pretty high in the meta once shields drop.

[atomic cedar]

why can you not dodge stripe's gun

[unique pewter]

I think you can? but honestly I'm not sure I ever have personally so I don't know

[dry slate]

You can dodge one shot, but you have two annoying other ones that'll hit you anyways

[west cloak]

You can avoid gun if there’s something in the way like the stage, but otherwise you can’t dodge double or triple gunshot

[tacit pivot]

Any other Jason feel like his air grab armor is glitched?

[wide shale]

you dont get armor if you're in burnout, but i'll test it in a sec

well jasons dair is still messed up, but i am getting armor on air grab

[tacit pivot]

No way you think I don't know that

[wide shale]

how should i know?

[tacit pivot]

Sometimes I'll grab someone with the armor and they'll hit me with a non anti armor or multi hit attack and I will still get hit

[tacit pivot]

Bro no armor in burnout should be obvious to anyone

Nvm

[wide shale]

there's a strict timing window for getting armor on when he grabs too

it doesnt activate immediately and it deactivates half way through the grabbing part

[tacit pivot]

No dude

I literally HAVE the armor

Jason is highlighted

In armor

And yet I still get hit

[tiny cave]

Thats always been a thing

[tacit pivot]

Again, it's when I have armor, not in burnout, and not with the enemy throwing out a multi hitting move or anti armor

[tiny cave]

I know

Thats always been a thing

The grab trades

For no reason

Thats been a thing

Since they added armor to grab

Most of us know that

Its a old bug

[tacit pivot]

Yyyaaaayyyy

[queen juniper]

Welcome to being a Jason player

[tacit pivot]

Jason is just a giant middle finger to the player

[queen juniper]

Almost. The middle finger is actually the PFG devs

[valid glen]

did they adjust the range of jason's up special yesterday or am i just having a really off day with it

[dry slate]

Attacks phasing through your enemies that have hurtboxes the size of a pixie stick? You're not alone

[dry sinew]

His Down Air has been missing like hell lately

I don't know what they did but it's worse than after the mid-season patch

[dry slate]

When they made it faster, they forgot to change the hitbox to compensate. Now, his hitbox activates when his arm is straight down below him

[dry sinew]

Sigh

Terrific

[west cedar]

Poor Jason never can catch a break

[dark sapphire]

Welcome back midson

[hasty elbow]

Jason NES