Jason

[idle wolf]

I'll say this, the more you pay attention to the little details of the game the better you'll be able to win harder match ups

[median geyser]

Interesting tip

[idle wolf]

Like managing dodge meter. If you're in burnout you are 100% going to be a punching bag and need to back away until you get it back

[median geyser]

Yeah I mostly used Mist as the backup to evade attacks most of the time...

[flint tide]

its an amazing recovery tool

if you ever have a fight on the side of the ldge you can screw with people really well

why do you say this

[idle wolf]

You can command grab bugs out of his rocket
You can break safe instantly with up tilt and dash attack if you have 2 fast 2 block
You can easily parry his nair on the second time he does it
You can grounded up special him out of his rocket as well

[median geyser]

This guy has way better matchup knowledge

That's why he can easily win against Bugs most of the time

[flint tide]

wdym out of his rocket

like if he's riding on it?

[median geyser]

Not during when he rides, during when he's about to do it I assume

[idle wolf]

Yea if you know Bugs just spams rocket when he gets knocked off stage you can just jump and command grab him and then he's dead lol

[flint tide]

thats not a matchup thing though

thats just making a good read

[median geyser]

Check his video

You can see how he cooked Bugs like np

[idle wolf]

Yea Bugs aren't that much of an issue he's still a good character but he's way easier to deal with than like Taz

Taz is probably Jason's WORST match up omg

[median geyser]

Yeah Taz... eesh

Morty as well

Rick

[idle wolf]

The thing about Taz is he has a loop that gurantees 100 damage on you off of jab

And it only works on big characters lol

[median geyser]

Right...

[idle wolf]

Morty is manageable but annoying same with Rick. I want to make a match up guide for Jason

[median geyser]

Yet he can move freely while charging his uground attack

[median geyser]

You've three things

Matchup, Movement & Command Grab

[flint tide]

i can beat bugs as well but its not a good matchup

[idle wolf]

I also don't think people know Jason has a kill confirm on every character at about 55%-70%

From jab lol

[median geyser]

The throw?

It depends how far is the stage

[idle wolf]

Not the throw

You gotta have monstrous side step on

Jab Jab Mist Step -> Side Air

[median geyser]

Oh that

[idle wolf]

The only way to get out of it is parrying

[median geyser]

But only works on dumb people

[idle wolf]

Nah look

[median geyser]

It can also get out by using Dodge

[idle wolf]

Can't dodge out

[median geyser]

I tried doing it on Morty & he cooked me

[idle wolf]

At certain %

[median geyser]

With the last moment of dodge

Idk but I saw Morty did it before so I assumed it can be dodged

[idle wolf]

Ima find an example

[median geyser]

Please

[flint tide]

you can dodge out

you have to delay the dodge

it usually catches people because they dodge too early

i think it might work at certain percent but not like 70

[idle wolf]

Oh damn I can't post a clip in here

[median geyser]

Dms?

[idle wolf]

I'll post in #clips

[median geyser]

Oh a'ight

[median geyser]

That's so weird

I did it on Morty & he literally dodged out of it

[idle wolf]

They have to be at about 60%

It's the only time it confirms

[median geyser]

Yeah but the stage is close right?

It needs to be that close

Like that stage is fairly close

[idle wolf]

You could do it from the middle and still get kills

[median geyser]

At the time Morty dodged out of it, I was confused as hell

[flint tide]

nah you can dodge out of that

you have to delay the dodge

if you dodge too early you get hit

[median geyser]

So you've to click fast to make then unable to dodge?

[idle wolf]

Try it in training room on shaggy right now lol

Put him on dodge after hit stun

Put his % to 60 and have monstrous side step on

[median geyser]

I unfortunately didn't record the clip against Morty matchup so yeah it's what it is

@idle wolf If you can be kind then you can go watch in my yt channel on how I played Jason... but I can tell I played very badly there...

[idle wolf]

Dm link bro

[median geyser]

Erm it's in my profile

[minor radish]

His link is in his bio

[flint tide]

shaggys dodge after hitstun doesn't work

its broken a lot of the time

a lot of combos i test in there are easily dodged by people in actual matches

you can test it by knocking him back

after specific moves he legit just doesn't dodge

[idle wolf]

Bet

[flint tide]

you can test it by just hitting him with neutral axe

with dodge after hitstun on

he doesn't dodge

[idle wolf]

Ayyy man if you don’t believe in the kill confirm idk what to say

[flint tide]

i mean its not a matter of belief you can legit go test it

i know what you're talking about because i do it in games as well

but people have dodged it by just delaying their dodge

[idle wolf]

I’ve killed streamers, tourney players, pretty much everybody with it

[flint tide]

when someone dodges too early the dodge comes out but they end up getting hit by it

if you delay the dodge it'll work

[idle wolf]

If you delay your dodge you die

[median geyser]

I do believe it

But I was confused by last time Morty cooked me

Beside I'd it a lot of time but sometimes missed

[idle wolf]

What % was he at when you tried it?

[flint tide]

then something is off

because i literally do it in games and it just gets dodged

not all the time but around like 70% etc

[idle wolf]

When you press side B your opponent must be at or around 60%

[median geyser]

I think mostly around 80% but can't remember...

[idle wolf]

80% won’t work 70% you can dodge

40% won’t work 50% you can dodge

[flint tide]

alright that makes more sense then

if it needs a very specific %

[idle wolf]

About a 5-7% window

[median geyser]

Huh...

[idle wolf]

Here watch this

Jason has some very true combos but the % is SUPER specific

[median geyser]

Gotchu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jK5MAL7Qww

Here's my other Jason video that got uploaded

[flint tide]

oh okay

yeah specific % makes much more sense

[median geyser]

Tom was at 59% when he'd that

[idle wolf]

So looks this a great example at 0:42 you could have just did jab jab side b into forward air and kill him probably or got very close to

[alpine hedge]

yooo Uncle Spamuel! i just found out about your channel earlier today! i learned a lot with your vids! thanks a lot!

[median geyser]

Yeah...

Idk why I'd a grab here...

Just natural instincts or something

[idle wolf]

Oh bro you did it at 1:12 that’s the combo looool

[median geyser]

Hahahaha... but not close enough

[idle wolf]

Yea so what you can do there after that is try to read where he’s going to recover. If you just learn how people like to recover you can easily close out kills early

Yea your video is cool you gotta break those safes tho lol

[idle wolf]

🙏 thank you bro

[median geyser]

Yeah...

[idle wolf]

We gotta play sometime I think you’ll pick up stuff if we do

[median geyser]

Imma be off for a bit later to do something else... but my time is different than yours here

Are you free later on?

[idle wolf]

Yea for sure bro I’m at work right now anyway

[median geyser]

How many hours left you gonna be home?

[idle wolf]

I work from home so I’ll be here all day lol

[median geyser]

Lmao

Okay got it

[queen juniper]

Prayge today is the day they finally announce buffs for our boy Jason

[median geyser]

I thought it's gonnn be tomorrow

It's gonna be tomorrow at 1am for me

Uh... 5hrs left

[idle wolf]

🙏🙏🙏

[median geyser]

Hey, you in for the match?

[idle wolf]

I can play a quick one

Add me UncleSpamuel

[median geyser]

Hopfully connection is good enough

Invite me...

[idle wolf]

Lost Billy?

[median geyser]

Yes

Umable to join, wth

A'ight

559 wins

[idle wolf]

mm gg gg

[median geyser]

Yeah

You played well, ngl, grabbed me couple times

[idle wolf]

Damn im washed LMAO

[median geyser]

Nah man you aren't

[idle wolf]

Im learninggggg

[median geyser]

You're just getting warmed up

[idle wolf]

Okay okay im feeling it

[median geyser]

Yeah

You're just getting warmer & warmer

[idle wolf]

Damn you caught me lmao

[median geyser]

Man these grabs, last match before I need to eat

[idle wolf]

gg

Yea bro you're nice

[median geyser]

You too...

[idle wolf]

You got those up airs on deckkk

[median geyser]

Yeah but not enough to knockout hahaha

I got absolutely cooked in the 3rd match...

[tropic eagle]

My life is complete. I finally unlocked Uber Jason.

[tulip plaza]

lets gooooo

[timber narwhal]

oh cool

jason has a bug with ressurectionist

that gives the enemy a free double kill

great

[scenic lagoon]

Your fault for using ressurectionist ngl 😂

[knotty sage]

yeah ressurectionist is already bad bc it kills you earlier, it activates when any of your hurtboxes touch the blast zone, not when you would actually die

[scenic lagoon]

Try not make Jason ass challenge, impossible

[timber narwhal]

his other perk is bad

[scenic lagoon]

Use well Rounded

[knotty sage]

and the behind you perk just makes you painfully predictable

[scenic lagoon]

The 5% is way better than people give credit

[flint tide]

monstrous sidestep isn't bad

idk why people say this

[scenic lagoon]

Turns something that can be used as a sort of bait or better recovery tool into a predictable teleport

It can be better for certain combos

[knotty sage]

idk its way easier to deal with a jason w/ it than w/o bc you always know where they're gonna be

[timber narwhal]

boring

[scenic lagoon]

But it is optimal

[knotty sage]

its better than the nerfs the other 2 give

[timber narwhal]

went against a lag swithing harley

destroyed her twice

[timber narwhal]

nope

if you can toggle when it activates maybe

but you cant

[scenic lagoon]

If anything, Monstrous sidestep is a knowledge check

[timber narwhal]

so you are never safe with it

[flint tide]

its a really good recovery tool though

like way better than regular teleport

if you use it super often yeah people can counter it but it gives you so many better options

[scenic lagoon]

Until they realize you have it

[flint tide]

if you're fighting someone on the ledge and they try to ring you out, you can teleport behind them and literally just kill them

[timber narwhal]

it`s not

[scenic lagoon]

And then they just counter it instantly

[timber narwhal]

using that perk for recovery gets you killed

in 1v1d a jason with it

everytime he used it

[flint tide]

how

[timber narwhal]

i bagged him

[flint tide]

if you use anything predictably anything will get you killed

[timber narwhal]

bceause its always the same place

[flint tide]

it also lets you have options against certain projectiles

[scenic lagoon]

You know what

[flint tide]

while being safe against attacks thrown out in neutral

[scenic lagoon]

I'm getting on the game

And playing some games with it

In my 16 levels of Jason I've used it for like 100 matches

And then I stopped

[flint tide]

ive used it my entire time playing the game

its served me well

[scenic lagoon]

Try without too

Trying different things is always nice

Except ressurectionist, that's just ass regardless

[flint tide]

yeah i tried resurrectionist

horrid experience

idk i'd much rather use it than the 5% one

if you use it to try and teleport behind people and jumpscare them constantly you'll get cooked but if you throw it out as an anti projectile option as well as during ledge fights its super good

like

imagine the other guy is at like 80% and you're kinda high and he's trying to spike you offstage

you then just teleport behind him bounce him off the wall with sair and he dies

even just having it as an option forces the opponent to consider it

which encourages specific playstyles

which you can then exploit

[scenic lagoon]

Sometimes you get lucky

Some players just know how to deal with it

[timber narwhal]

resurrectionist has its uses

in 1v1 it can clutch

why did they block out swear words in this server

this filter sucks

[honest yoke]

its a way worse recovery tool

[timber narwhal]

in 2v2 is can be wasted by your bad teammate

[west cloak]

It’s really bad if your opponent knows the counterplay

[timber narwhal]

the problem isnt the teleport

[honest yoke]

its basically unusable as a recovery once they realize you have it

[timber narwhal]

its good for combos

the problem is its always the same

so using it for recovery makes you lose

[west cloak]

Because you always teleport behind your opponent, if you ever use it to recover, your opponent can literally just turn around at ledge and you teleport still off stage

Literally the majority of the cast can jump backwards off stage and then hit you in the end lag

[scenic lagoon]

Monstrous sidestep is funny as hell tho

[west cloak]

It is funny

But it’s not worth making your recovery awful

[timber narwhal]

imagine you are fighting a jake

[scenic lagoon]

It can lead to some stupid stuff

[queen juniper]

Too much of a gimmick perk

[timber narwhal]

he charges his up attack

you just died basically

[west cloak]

And that’s Jake who is also a bottom tier

[timber narwhal]

other character also have chargable attacks with kill potential that hit behind them

[queen juniper]

Rather have reliable recovery from off stage

[timber narwhal]

bottom tier but fast enough to be viable imo

[halcyon badger]

Was it on YouTube lol I seen the same thing

[west cloak]

Dude Jake has the lowest win rate in the game rn

Even lower than Jason

He literally cannot kill outside of like 2 moves

Sweetspot utilt and uair 2

Those are his only kill moves

[timber narwhal]

yeah but i feel like thats cuz its mostly children playing him, personally i think he feels worse to play than stripe, and trust me i love stripe

[west cloak]

And he can’t combo anything at low percents

[west cloak]

Stripe is good

[honest yoke]

stripe doesnt feel bad to play

[scenic lagoon]

Bite

[west cloak]

I’ve played both Jake and Jason and Jake feels way worse

[west cloak]

3

But that’s not really saying much

[timber narwhal]

Jake used to feel better in the first beta

unsure what got nerfed about him

might have been the horse, I remember it being annoying

[west cloak]

Well yeah Jake was the #1 1v1 character in tournaments

No joke that 15 of the top 32 at Evo played Jake iirc

[honest yoke]

evo didnt have 1v1s

[west cloak]

I might be slightly off on the statistics, but it was somewhere around there I think

Then it wasn’t Evo

Some other larger 1v1 tournament

I don’t remember which

But the statistics were that Jake was the highest winning character in 1v1 and Velma was the highest winning in 2v2

In tournament at least

[scenic lagoon]

I just fought what I can only describe as Beta Harley

Nair spam

[timber narwhal]

i

i forgot velma existed

damn

[west cloak]

IG was the highest overall including all players because he absolutely stomps in low and mid level in both 1v1 and 2v2

[timber narwhal]

you sure it wasnt aj oker

[scenic lagoon]

I'm sure

[timber narwhal]

I used to love him, but he feels a bit weird rn

still kills alot

but I feel like a big punching bag most of the time

[scenic lagoon]

I have never loved and will never love IG

Should be banned from every tournament no matter what state he's in

[timber narwhal]

closest thing I have to a Transformers in the game

plus his movie is great

[west cloak]

IG is insanely strong if you know how to use him

[timber narwhal]

I think the resize made him both worse and better

its weird

i honestly dont much like the size changes

some maps feel too small now

[west cloak]

I think they just need to increase the blast zone sizes

Dexters side blast zones and Scooby’s top blast zones are disgustingly small

[timber narwhal]

so

something Jason definitely needs

is bigger/fixed hitboxes

it's ridiculous that the air around shaggys fist hits me

but my axe going through his head doesnt register

[scenic lagoon]

Shaggy mains are so carried holy

[west cloak]

Yeah I feel like Jason neutral attack is missing a few active frames

[timber narwhal]

Jason is already slow enough, his hitboxes being unreliable is even worse

[languid harbor]

Im so closeee, im on the last paige about to unlock the tazmanian shedevil

[languid harbor]

Real. Imagine Optimus Prime in this game?

[west cloak]

Actually, I think the real issue with hitboxes is that this game doesn’t have hitbox interpolation like Smash does

So any fast slash type moves have huge blind spots

[timber narwhal]

Optimus, Megatron, Starscream would go so hard

[scenic lagoon]

I swear they need to remove Taz jab into neutral

Makes him so unfun to fight

[timber narwhal]

I've noticed Taz has some really annoying combos that last a while

Tho it might be cuz I'm playing jason

And I'm easy to hit

[timber narwhal]

Alot of his moves don't register

I'm not sure how this game is doing it's hitboxes currently

But they should at the very least line up with the model

And with jason

Half the time they don't

[scenic lagoon]

He can do it vs everyone

[languid harbor]

Soundwave and Bumblebee would be so cool

[median geyser]

Not every opponent is smart or intelligent but me & Spamuel have been using it a lot so we're completely fine with it. It's more of the knowledge & skilled perk required to use... you need to become heavily skilled to use it

Plus it can kill confirm in very specific dmg + it's nasty

[knotty sage]

time for the patch notes to be revealed and jason gets either nothing or nerfs

[median geyser]

2 more hours though

They also need to sped up the nair axe

Coz that's way too slow or roughly to be the same speed as sair

[west cloak]

They should make the cancel window on hit sooner so he can reliably combo nair into sair

It only works at a very specific percent window from my experience

[median geyser]

Ig so but like again it's just too slow & it isn't gonna be guaranteed fairly much if the opponent dodges

WW literally has a way better nair than Jason can have... faster opener with armor breaking properties

It literally have makes no sense for Jason to have nair & sair to be exactly same speed

Other than the hitbox arc & knockback differences

[fading vapor]

Time draws near my fellow Jason mains. Hopefully we will be blessed with buffs

[scenic lagoon]

If he gets buffed and the top tiers get nerfed, he'll be a menace

[fading vapor]

As he should be

Our time to shine

🔪🔪🔪🔪🔪

[flint tide]

as long as the top tiers are nerfed and weird hitbox inconsistencies are fixed im chilling

i'd ideally like a sleeping bag rework

[idle wolf]

Yall so sleep on monstrous side step

[flint tide]

i dont

‼️

[knotty sage]

it just needs to be faster or be dodge cancelable

the sleeping bag

[icy raptor]

Should we be using one perk setup or have multiple for different matchups?

[flint tide]

i feel like the move itself is just kinda useless

even if it lands the reward is trash

[flint tide]

i use different perk setups per matchup

[knotty sage]

i have a 1v1 and a 2v2 perk set up

[flint tide]

its not too crazy mainly just 2fast2block in some armour intensive matchups

[knotty sage]

even though its a 1 perk difference between the two

[icy raptor]

I was mainly thinking having 1 perk set for general use, one for zoners, and one for tanks, thoughts?

[knotty sage]

yeah that seems smart

[icy raptor]

Only issue is how do we setup the best perksets for these matchups?

[knotty sage]

i would say just get a few perks for the match up then just good jason perks

like for zoners get the projectile shield, weakened attacks at 100, then like pugilist or another anti projectile

[idle wolf]

Monstrous side step doesn’t ALWAYS to behind opponent only when in a certain proximity

[icy raptor]

I was thinking
zoners: 5%, Prot Shield, speed, pug
general: 5%, snowball, last stand, pug
tank: Sidestep, PTA, Last stand, Armor Killer

Thoughts?

[knotty sage]

whats PTA again?

[icy raptor]

adds a stack of weakend on opponents above 125

[knotty sage]

that seems good

[icy raptor]

imma try these out and see how i feel

[idle wolf]

Anyone want to 1v1?

[knotty sage]

i feel like sidestep should go on the zoner one tho since zoners will try to run away, and sidestep gets you right next to them

[halcyon badger]

Yeah pretty good against morty when he’s tryna dirt you

Oh wait

Is morty considered a zoner in this game lol

[flint tide]

i can in a bit

after i finish this quick set

[knotty sage]

id say so

although he's probably able to dodge out of dirt so it wont do much

[idle wolf]

Ok add me @flint tide UncleSpamuel

Invite again @flint tide

I’ll invite you

[icy raptor]

something i notice about the zoner build
Prot shield is insane.
Playing on townsville with prot shield is managable now, you don't have to worry about bombs or the reindog balls, and while its a bit disorienting against zoners, you can just walk through and punish, its wonderful

mind you, this is only after a couple of games, so not entirely conclusive, but still

[idle wolf]

Walking through bombs feels so badaas

[knotty sage]

why sidestep for tanks?

[scenic lagoon]

Jab jab side b into a read after the teleport, putting you closer and giving you more of a chance to kill

[idle wolf]

Yessirrr a sidestep believer @scenic lagoon

[flint tide]

@idle wolf mb invite me

[scenic lagoon]

I believe in both that and normal 5%

I like both

[scenic lagoon]

Wait aren't you a youtuber

[idle wolf]

5% is cool sidestep more utility

Ye @scenic lagoon I make Jason content

[scenic lagoon]

Yea I saw your vid today

I wanna fight you

You've made me use air neutral special more

[flint tide]

was playing with someone

[scenic lagoon]

Can we do some games @idle wolf ?

[icy raptor]

mainly for superman, closing the gap on his laser safely

[idle wolf]

Sure thing bro @scenic lagoon and thanks for watchinggg

Oh you're ready now lol @flint tide

Ima run a couple with @flint tide then pull up on you @scenic lagoon

[idle wolf]

Its so good brehhh

Damn im washed

[median geyser]

Listen to this man said lol

[median geyser]

Dodge cancellable won't do much

[idle wolf]

No way lmao @flint tide

[knotty sage]

i meant more like dodge out of the endlag

[flint tide]

is what it is

[median geyser]

Sleeping Bag needs to be cancelled manually & you can combos off it

[idle wolf]

You're good af @flint tide

[median geyser]

IG can literally cancel into the combos & boom, kill confirm

[knotty sage]

rather than wait for jason to roll it up and then struggle to fit it into his back pocket, then polish his machete before taking it out

[median geyser]

That recovery also needs fixing

Coz no way they let that happened

Every other moves have Jason putting back the weapons he pulled out but still can move after except the Bag

Aside you getting the bag hit, it's still horrible & not worth it

You get almost zero value from it

It needs to be atleast kill confirm at 90-100% if you hit it

[flint tide]

im alright

[idle wolf]

Nah you play Jason a lot better than most people lol

[median geyser]

What did he do? Spoil me

[idle wolf]

He just knows how to use side step and plays neutral

other stuff too

[scenic lagoon]

Damn

Idk that 😢

[idle wolf]

MMMM

I got greeedy loool

[flint tide]

you might wanna change your perks

[scenic lagoon]

So many Shaggy's today

It's infuriating ngl

[idle wolf]

Im getting smokeddd

Yea these perks suck for jason ditto @flint tide

[halcyon badger]

Just wait until Tmr to play

[scenic lagoon]

0 respect for IG players ngl

[idle wolf]

Damnnnn

[halcyon badger]

30 more mins brothers

[idle wolf]

Ay bro you solid af @flint tide

[flint tide]

last one

im alright man

[idle wolf]

Yea LG lg

[flint tide]

im not that good lol

[idle wolf]

Lol you play good neutral

[scenic lagoon]

Jason needs neutral and reads

[flint tide]

ggs man

[idle wolf]

Noktron got it all

gg

I got some training to do

You still here @scenic lagoon ?

[flint tide]

you're really good already

[scenic lagoon]

Want to train vs me, or watch the discord patch details

[idle wolf]

Ill prob do both

[scenic lagoon]

I can't do both

One screen

[idle wolf]

oh lol

[scenic lagoon]

And it'll lag me

[idle wolf]

Nvm then

[flint tide]

i'm done with the game for today

[idle wolf]

Where are they showing patch notes?

[scenic lagoon]

We can play when it's done

[flint tide]

juts gonna see the patch notes

[scenic lagoon]

Here in discord

[idle wolf]

Special channel?

[flint tide]

i just want some top tier nerfs really

#announcements

[idle wolf]

I just want Joker WW and Shaggy nerfs

Really knockback nerfs tbh

[scenic lagoon]

It's in the Mid Season Patch Preview

[flint tide]

i want infinites like taz' loop gone and just general nerfs to the top tiers

thats pretty much it

jason buffs most likely coming

would appreciate some bug fixes like whenever his bed just does 2 damage

joker nerfs, infinite removals, some ww nerfs, maybe an arya nerf idk might just be a jason thing

and just some hitbox changes/fixes would be nice

[idle wolf]

Yea that bed one where they just float in place on hit sucks too

[flint tide]

i think the biggest issue jason has is the fact the top tiers exist

[idle wolf]

His sword needs to be a disjoint tbh

[flint tide]

if you just fixed some weird bugs with him and nerfed them and removed nonsense infinites he'd be fine

yeah that too

[dire violet]

Ugh... how'd I play Jason so long and not know the first hit of down special is jump/dodge cancellable

[flint tide]

no its not

@idle wolf you see what i mean about that monstrous sidestep kill setup btw

both of us dodged out of it a bunch of times

though i do think there were certain times it was true

so ig im just not good at understanding exactly what % is necessary

[dire violet]

I'm talking about the air down special

[flint tide]

yeah its not

the second hit is

[dire violet]

No the first one, if you don't land on the ground

[flint tide]

oh right

[dire violet]

I didn't know this whole time

Although I don't use that move often enough anyway...

[median geyser]

That move is fairly good & powerful if hit

But need to use correctly

It sucks when you reach over 100%

[icy raptor]

lets see the Jason buffs fellas 🙏

[ancient wraith]

BUGS NAIR LOOPS ARE GONE?

[queen juniper]

But what about the Jason buffs 🗿

[ancient wraith]

THATS A JASON BUFF 🗣️🗣️🗣️

[flint tide]

Matchup fixed

[tulip plaza]

I hope they mention jason buffs please

[ancient wraith]

MORE GIZMO NERFS?

[halcyon badger]

Wait what that’s it for bugs? I

[flint tide]

Thats all he needed

[ancient wraith]

JASON STAYS WINNING 🔥

[flint tide]

Bugs should be allowed to be a strong character but nair loops are stupid

[ancient wraith]

BAT DOLL AND DYNAMITE NERFS?

YOU GUESSED IT BABY

THATS A JASON BUFF

[dire violet]

Look at all these Jason buffs

[ancient wraith]

👹👹👹

[icy raptor]

"in this patch, we're giving jason counterplay to everybody" LETS GOOOOOOOOO

[ancient wraith]

jake buffs?

[queen juniper]

So much yapping just publish the patch notes

[dire violet]

He got me, let's talk about "Ja-"

[ancient wraith]

…THEYRE ACKNOWLEDGING WHEN CHARACTERS SUCK

THATS A JASON BUFF BABYYYYYYY

[icy raptor]

LETS LISTEN IN TO THE MIDSEASON PATCHNOTES AS A JASON MAIN
WE CAN'T STOP WINNING!
WE CAN'T STOP WINNING!
WE CAN'T STOP WINNING!

[ancient wraith]

💪💪💪

[median geyser]

Just wait y'all

[halcyon badger]

We next

[ancient wraith]

background music?

JASON MAINS GET TO ENJOY MUSIC DURING THE DISCUSSION

[icy raptor]

LETS GOOOOO JASON MUSIC BUFFFF

[ancient wraith]

JASON BUFFS JUST KEEP COMING

[median geyser]

Lol

[tulip plaza]

YES

[queen juniper]

Pogchamp

[icy raptor]

YESSSS

[ancient wraith]

WOOOOOO

[median geyser]

Let's go

[ancient wraith]

COME ON

[acoustic crypt]

JASON BUFFS

[minor radish]

Jason!!!

[icy raptor]

JASON JASON JASON

[ancient wraith]

OH MY GOD

[icy raptor]

YESYESYSEYSES

[tulip plaza]

YESSSS

[median geyser]

Faster attacks hell yes

[queen juniper]

Frame buffs!

[ancient wraith]

OH MY GOD

[tulip plaza]

YES HITBOXES

[bold condor]

Possible buff?

[median geyser]

Hitboxes fixed raaaaaa

[halcyon badger]

LETS GOOOOO

[icy raptor]

EYGIDREYHBERDIHBRDEKIGHBEDRNb

[queen juniper]

And hit boxes!

[icy raptor]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[ancient wraith]

AHAHAHAHAHA

[bold condor]

Ayyyy W for yall

[ancient wraith]

AAAAAAAAAAAA

[icy raptor]

JASON CAN HIT PEOPLE NOW

[gray gale]

LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[bold condor]

I’m glad for yall

[gray gale]

THEY RELEASED JASON!

HE'S A CHARACTER NOW!

[queen juniper]

GIVE ME THE PATCH NOW AND LET ME COOK! 🗿

[bold condor]

🥳🥳

[ancient wraith]

HES A REAL CHARACTER NOW!!!!!!!

[flint tide]

Sounds cool

[glossy fox]

LETS GOOOOOOOO

[tulip plaza]

LETS GO LETS GOO PLEASE YESSS

[gray gale]

🗿

[tulip plaza]

JASOOOOOOOOOOOON

[ancient wraith]

IM SO HAPPY

[tulip plaza]

JAAASOOOOOOOOOOOOON

[icy raptor]

YEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[gray gale]

JASOOOOOOOOOOOOON

[flint tide]

That probably makes stuff like superman fly much less egregious

[stable matrix]

CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT IT IS I CANT WATCH

[ancient wraith]

RAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH 👹👹👹👹👹👹👹

[queen juniper]

They just need to give me ranked mode and it’s a wrap

[minor radish]

I can't hear anything what did they do to him

[flint tide]

Depending on the hitbox changes he might be able to deal with ludicrious air attacks like batman divekick as well

[halcyon badger]

no armor 😞

[icy raptor]

JASON HAS FRAMES
JASON HAS HITBOXES
JASON IS FASTER

[tulip plaza]

"Nakat made jason a problem"
jason was NEVER a problem what are they smoking bro

[icy raptor]

one day 🙏

[median geyser]

Oh no, Shaggy nerfs

[ancient wraith]

THEY SAID THEY FIXED HIS HITBOXES ON HIS WEAPONS AND MADE HIS MOVES FASTER

[knotty sage]

well we dont know maybe they just didnt mention it

[flint tide]

Most likely no armour

[ancient wraith]

AND BED IS FIXED

finally….. bed is fixed…….

[halcyon badger]

True, I’m hoping the patch notes have more info

[flint tide]

Anyway these sound like the perfect changes

[icy raptor]

welp, this makes it certain. I'm no longer a shaggy main.

[median geyser]

Where's the sleeping bag fixes???

[flint tide]

Coupled with nerfs to the top tiers he’s just solid

[ancient wraith]

join us

[flint tide]

Nowhere lol

[dire violet]

Y'all done messed up now, ki ki ki ma ma ma

[flint tide]

Sleeping bag just gets to exist

[ancient wraith]

jason will become the best character in the game

[flint tide]

And be a misinput forever

Actually maybe they’ve changed it in the full notes

[median geyser]

Where's the bag changes lol

[flint tide]

Hopefully

[icy raptor]

JASON MAINS FOREVER BAYBEEEEEEEEEEEE

[minor radish]

I can't hear ar workNnn!!!

[ancient wraith]

sleeping bag has been removed from the game. the input is now replaced by wonder woman’s armor move

[tulip plaza]

I can't wait to lab out new jason

[median geyser]

What?

[icy raptor]

i love spreading misinformation

[flint tide]

Joker nerfs required

[tulip plaza]

steven
can't wait for him to be KILLED

[flint tide]

This balance patch seems pretty cool

[minor radish]

OH MY GOD

[ancient wraith]

theyre saving those for last i bet

you can’t just throw the biggest jason buffs in the middle of the discussion

[halcyon badger]

I’m so glad steves nair is toned down

[median geyser]

What was his nair?

[flint tide]

It seems like all of the top tiers are gonna be less oppressive

[halcyon badger]

That bubble exploding move

[median geyser]

Oh

[flint tide]

But characters fundamentally opposed to jason like finn are still gonna be headaches

Most likely anyway

[tulip plaza]

except for WW cus Nakat loves WW (please age poorly)

[icy raptor]

i'm dipping out now to wait for the official patchnotes, this is all too good to be true 🙏

[flint tide]

WW is like the least egregious top tier ngl

Like she’s busted but like

I would fight 10 wws over 1 joker

[halcyon badger]

Ah okay nice there is more changes they just don’t have time to mention them

[ancient wraith]

god dude im literally so happy. they actually mentioned how bad hit hitboxes are

they even DIRECTLY MENTIONED THE BED

[tulip plaza]

JONKER

[ancient wraith]

oh boy

[halcyon badger]

JOKER

[flint tide]

Oh based

[halcyon badger]

GUT HIS SAIR

[ancient wraith]

GUT THE JONKLER

[devout burrow]

fine I guess I'll play jason again

[gray gale]

THE JONKLER!

BEND HIS CROWBAR!

[knotty sage]

NAH GET THAT CROWBAR OUT

[gray gale]

AND HIS JAB

[flint tide]

The crowbar is like one of his main things

[gray gale]

HIS JAB AND RICK'S!

[flint tide]

Its probably not gonna get obliterated

But definitely changed

[halcyon badger]

Is the crowbar the move where he flies sideways lol

[ancient wraith]

HA

[flint tide]

Well

[gray gale]

up air and up tilt

[flint tide]

That and his uair and utilt

[halcyon badger]

OH

Yeah ew

[ancient wraith]

NO MORE RUNNING JONKLER 👹👹👹

[languid harbor]

Finally jason buffs

[icy raptor]

This is now officially going to be remembered as "Jason Day"

[gray gale]

HE CAN'T DO UP AIR MANY TIMES IN A ROW!

THEY LOCK HIM OUT OF REPEATING THEM

[flint tide]

Oh so you have to do frame perfect inputs to do his combos now

[gray gale]

THE JONKLER IS GONE!

[ancient wraith]

OH?

[flint tide]

Huh

[ancient wraith]

WILD CARD IS GUTTED

[gray gale]

so, secrecy regarding wild card

[ancient wraith]

JASON STAYS ON TOP

[gray gale]

they are probs reworking it

make it not rng

[flint tide]

I guess there are an absolute ton of changes coming to the point you can’t even speak about them with the time they have

Solid innit

[gray gale]

oh god

velma

please

[ancient wraith]

yo?

[gray gale]

keep her gutted

[knotty sage]

please dont bring her back

for the love of vorhees

[halcyon badger]

she’s back it seems

[flint tide]

Velma rework i guess

[tulip plaza]

I feel like velma buffs are gonna suck for jason oh dear

[flint tide]

I mean velma doesn’t exist right now

Like there has actually not been a single velma i’ve fought

Ever

[ancient wraith]

i think jason should be receiving a care package as well

[flint tide]

He did

[ancient wraith]

i like reading!

[knotty sage]

even in beta she was consistently at the bottom

of pickrate

[tulip plaza]

I can't wait for these patch notes

[halcyon badger]

WW

[wide shale]

velma was INSANE when she very first came out

[gray gale]

but consistently at the top of the tier list

[knotty sage]

PLEASE KILL HER

KILL THE AMAZON

[ancient wraith]

take away all of her armor and give it to jason

[halcyon badger]

LETS GO

[gray gale]

LET'S GO

[halcyon badger]

unsafe moves now

[bold condor]

Gut her

Gut her

Gut her

[halcyon badger]

That was my biggest gripe

[flint tide]

Oh iron giant nerfs

[tulip plaza]

she finally will have ONE move you can challenge, lets gooo

[flint tide]

Lmaooooo

[bold condor]

Get rid of armor shield ram every two seconds

YES

[flint tide]

Yeah iron giant is cooked

[halcyon badger]

LWTS GO

[gray gale]

ALL ARMOR TONED DOWN

[bold condor]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-bison-street-fighter-yes-gif-3718772

[ancient wraith]

wait did they even turn on any background music

[halcyon badger]

no

[bold condor]

Aw man it didn’t work

[ancient wraith]

lol

[halcyon badger]

LETS GO EVEN MORE!!!

[ancient wraith]

they’re nerfing her offstage kill power?

JASON GOES OFF STAGE

THATS A BUFF

[tulip plaza]

I love to go off stage!

#clips message

[ancient wraith]

i hope they made the command grab faster

[tulip plaza]

they did say a bunch of his moves are faster now, so hopefully

[flint tide]

Command grab kinda pointless

Being faster would be cool

[ancient wraith]

consider: it’s funny

[median geyser]

Spamuel still cooking with these grabs

[knotty sage]

IRON GIANT

[halcyon badger]

His huge hand give it a bigger range

[tulip plaza]

my combo is always grounded up special into neutral air special

[flint tide]

Cooking with a suboptimal move 😭

[tulip plaza]

its not true but it is funny

[flint tide]

It does have some really weird niche uses

Like the slightly larger hitbox than his sair

And the grab properties beating armour

Pretty solid

[ancient wraith]

it has a really good angle too

sends down

[flint tide]

Iron giant is done i guess

[tulip plaza]

that's why I love the combo
up special near the edge, turn around, into neutral grab

[bold condor]

The second he loses his infinite and hitstun canceling move, he’ll probably be just as bad as in beta

[flint tide]

He doesn’t have an infinite

I don’t think he’s gonna be bad i just expect jason is gonna cook him more

[tiny cave]

Is the update out already?

[tulip plaza]

tomorrow iirc

[ancient wraith]

they should tell us when the patch notes are releasing

[gray gale]

it's tomorrow

we been knowing this

[flint tide]

Oh cool

[gray gale]

PARRY SPAM NERF

[ancient wraith]

wait

[gray gale]

WOOO

[ancient wraith]

THATS A JASON NERF

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[halcyon badger]

That sucks for us lol

[bold condor]

Parry spam existed??

[gray gale]

that's global

[bold condor]

I’ve never seen a parry spam ever

[gray gale]

spamming neutral dodge in a combo, that way you parry automatically

if the combo has a gap

[flint tide]

I guess you just dodge now

[bold condor]

I feel like parry was already hard enough

[gray gale]

they just lock you out of neutral dodging for 6 frames after exiting hit stun

[halcyon badger]

If you ran a set against someone n knew what combo they were gonn do you can spam parry

[bold condor]

Oh

[gray gale]

combo limit?

[halcyon badger]

LETS GOOOOO

[gray gale]

YES

[flint tide]

Taz as well probably

[gray gale]

DOUBLES INFINITE COMBOS ARE GONE

[minor radish]

What's that mean

[halcyon badger]

supes jab lock 😭

[bold condor]

I forgot this game even had 2v2

I was about to say team combos??

[ancient wraith]

what about jason double sleeping bag

[halcyon badger]

It’ll probably be addressed in the blog

[tulip plaza]

I hope sleeping bag can still go in the marvin bubble cus that one was always so funny
and he needs it

[ancient wraith]

i think jason should be allowed to keep the sleeping bag infinite

[gray gale]

huh?

[halcyon badger]

Huh

[ancient wraith]

wait what

[gray gale]

oh

[ancient wraith]

oh

[gray gale]

grabs

so yeah

sleeping bag

[ancient wraith]

darn

[flint tide]

Most useless move in the game remains useless

[ancient wraith]

💔

[flint tide]

Unless they buffed it and didn’t talk about it

And its just on the notes

[gray gale]

ooh

that's nice

[tulip plaza]

I hope ground up special into air grab still works cus I feel like this is a very vague change and its hard to know what any of this means

[median geyser]

We still need patch notes

[gray gale]

this is good for Taz actually

[ancient wraith]

i think jason air grab should be frame one

like and subscribe if you agree

[halcyon badger]

if Jason is faster now it should open up new combo routes right?

[flint tide]

Did they say he was faster

[dull axle]

It should also pay my taxes

[median geyser]

Hopefully...

[halcyon badger]

Move wise

[tulip plaza]

it should also have infinite range :3

[flint tide]

If he has higher movement speed that will probably make bed into uair more true

[ancient wraith]

it should also cook dinner for me i think

[flint tide]

Oh

Yeah for sure

[ancient wraith]

lol

[flint tide]

I can see air down special hit 2 comboing into something

[halcyon badger]

Maybe down tilt can lead to moves

[flint tide]

I do want combos considering he has like 3

And some are % specific

[ancient wraith]

i hope they gave stomp the armor break visual

[flint tide]

Oh right the stomp is also trash

[halcyon badger]

Very lol

[flint tide]

Hope they made that move less useless

[ancient wraith]

JASON MENTIONED

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH

[halcyon badger]

Oh ya nakat plays Jason

They probably did him more justice in the notes then

[flint tide]

I mean

Just off what was said he sounds fine, power wise

Top tiers were nerfed and he got hitbox changes

Thats pretty much all he needed to be notably better

[gray gale]

AGENT SMITH?

[flint tide]

But from a design standpoint

He has a bunch of moves that are kinda purposeless

And don’t fit very cohesively in his kit

[median geyser]

Most of dground attacks are useless right?

[flint tide]

Wym

[halcyon badger]

Stomp & bag are

[flint tide]

The only moves i think are genuinely useless are like stomp and sleeping bag

Grab has some niche uses

[halcyon badger]

Think I’ve only grabbed someone once and it was a misinput lmfao

[honest yoke]

Stomp isn't useless

[median geyser]

How's stomp useless though? Like it's more niche than bed?

[flint tide]

What do you use it for

The only notable property it has is armour breaking

[median geyser]

Nothing, other than gl breaking armor

[flint tide]

Which upspecial does

While anti airing

And having a better hitbox

[median geyser]

Stomp does need some buffs...

[ancient wraith]

give it more hitstun let it combo into sair

[halcyon badger]

^^

[honest yoke]

Stomp can combo into jab at low percent against mid-heavyweights

[flint tide]

I see

Wasn’t aware of that

Then i guess it does have some niche use

[honest yoke]

You can combo from jab into stomp back into jab

[halcyon badger]

That’s such a huge commitment when we can have other combo starters

[flint tide]

Which characters do you mean

[honest yoke]

Yeah you don't use it as a starter

[flint tide]

Like lebron type weight

[honest yoke]

Yeah it works on LeBron

[gray gale]

Are you saying we should stomp on black people?

[halcyon badger]

Oh you meant rejabs

[gray gale]

wow

didn't expect that from you

[honest yoke]

Very low percents though

[flint tide]

I see

More percent specific combos huh

The grind never stops

[honest yoke]

Charging stomp near ledge is also decent to catch people hugging wall

Not great but it has a much better hitbox for that than up special

[flint tide]

I feel like neutral axe is just better

Less recovery as well

[median geyser]

Overall, stomp need some changes

[flint tide]

Stomp and sleeping bag need to be looked at imo

Insanely niche

[honest yoke]

Sleeping bag is the big one for sure

[idle wolf]

Sleeping bag whiff is the WORST whiff in game

[flint tide]

Yeah lol

I literally only use it on accident

[idle wolf]

Link to notes out?

[flint tide]

Nah

A quick summary though

Jason’s hitboxes got looked at

[median geyser]

Grab Command GOAT is back

[flint tide]

He got frame data speedups

[idle wolf]

Yea I heard

[flint tide]

Oh you know

Alright no problem

[idle wolf]

No wayyyy

[flint tide]

Yea

[median geyser]

This is also huge

[idle wolf]

I just heard bits and pieces

[flint tide]

More active frames on neutral axe as well i think

[idle wolf]

I hope they adjusted his hurt box a little too

[flint tide]

Which could make it a crazy edgeguard tool, even bettee than it is now

[flint tide]

They didn’t but

I’m pretty sure the issue with combos on him is gonna be gone

Because of a combo scaling change they made

They pretty much just fixed his hitboxes, fixed the bed bug and improved his frame data

Solid recipe for all the stuff he needs

Coupled with the top tier nerfs i see him being pretty solid

[halcyon badger]

Also they fixed the damn bed lol

[flint tide]

I’m almost positive he’s gonna cook iron giant definitively as well and if he’s still top tier next patch that’ll be a nice matchup advantage

Though that’s more speculation on my part

[elder vector]

whats the tldr?

[idle wolf]

Yea I think the frame data boost is gonna be crazy

[flint tide]

With all that being said it is pretty disappointing ranked wasn’t announced

I guess it’ll come next patch considering they were talking about how they wanted good balance before it dropped

And on paper patch sounds very good

[flint tide]

Hitbox improvements, bed fixes, frame data improvements

[tulip plaza]

I'm just so happy my boi got buffed baybeeee

playing jason might not be a total chore anymore

[flint tide]

It depends

The real issue is how many characters consistently shut him down

But the changes they announce sound extremely good for fixing that problem

Setting aside his buffs even

Bugs no longer being able to do like 90% off of one hit like

Immediately makes that matchup not awful

Same for the changes to combo structure so taz can’t infinite him anymore

Also if the hitbox changes are good i believe superman fly won’t just negate his existence

[languid harbor]

Feel like the safe health didn't need to be lowered though. It's already pretty fragile

[flint tide]

Which will be pretty cool

We’ll see

[languid harbor]

Thats true.

[flint tide]

I kind of agree

The safe wasn’t the problem, nair was

But they specifically seemed to focus only on those two things, and even outside of them, bugs has very solid tools

It doesn’t sound like he was gutted at all

[languid harbor]

Ehh safe did have some problems like rapidly multihitting

[flint tide]

Just made not…stupid

[languid harbor]

Nice

[flint tide]

Which was 90% of the time caused by nair

[languid harbor]

Ohhhh

Good to know

[flint tide]

Tbh it might still do that

Idk

We’ll see

[languid harbor]

Whale Sea

[flint tide]

My predictions are mainly

Characters like arya and finn are still going to be absolutely awful to play against

But most of the top tiers are now going to be manageable

Wonder woman was always kinda doable

And joker shouldn’t just delete you now

[languid harbor]

Don't often see Arya so not too worried.

[flint tide]

Which sounds cool

If you play against a good arya you die

One of his worst matchups rn imo

[languid harbor]

Makes sense.

[flint tide]

Not that it matters since patch tomorrow but

Yeah

[languid harbor]

I mostly play Batman though, so even when I do decide to comit self hate and play Jason i never see Aryas

But will be interesting to see tomorrow.

[honest yoke]

Hitbox buffs were the biggest thing he needed I would have been happy if they only gave him that but we got a lot more it seems like

[flint tide]

Well

I think the frame data changes quite a lot

Depending on how significant they are it might even make matchups like arya fine

Because a major issue is just

How much faster characters can bully him in so many situations

[mental oar]

Have they gone over Jason's changes?

[flint tide]

Yes

[mental oar]

Are we winning

[flint tide]

The hitbox changes were the most important though, you’re right

[wide shale]

we'll see

[honest yoke]

I think bugs is a winning MU now that they can't loop us

[flint tide]

We always have been

Maybe

[halcyon badger]

Yeah we won’t be losing or trading Alot in neutral now

[flint tide]

It might be

[wide shale]

they literally needed to just make some of his attacks active one frame sooner, not counting the hitbox stuff

[tiny cave]

What did they change?

[flint tide]

I’m pretty confident he’ll beat iron giant consistently now

[tiny cave]

I wasnt present

[mental oar]

Bugs is manageable if they don't loop you with nair, back when safe was a problem he was difficult but after that nerf I was able to win against them more often than not

[wide shale]

Frame data changes to make him faster on startup.

Fixed hitboxes on attacks to better hit opponents.

Grounded up attack changed to be more consistent so opponents don't fall out of it.

[scenic lagoon]

Jason might now be high tier

[flint tide]

I think out of most of the characters he legitimately does do fairly well against iron giant even now because of the way his moves work

[honest yoke]

Yeah same

[wide shale]

that's just what they talked about, that might not be all the changes

[scenic lagoon]

And that makes me happy

[flint tide]

With those changes in effect

I’m pretty sure that will just be magnified

Which is cool

[mental oar]

Finally

[halcyon badger]

Yeah I’m waiting for the patch notes

[tiny cave]

Which changes

[flint tide]

Hitbox buffs

Frame data buffs

[tiny cave]

[flint tide]

Bug fixes

[wide shale]

hopefully they also shrunk his giant hand hurtboxes

[flint tide]

If he can consistently anti air stuff like batman divekick that’ll be cool

[wide shale]

very little characters moves can challenge the divekick as it is

[flint tide]

Oh

So thats not a jason problem then

I see

[halcyon badger]

it’s super disjointed

[wide shale]

nah the divekick has an insane disjoint

you never want to challenge it from below

[halcyon badger]

Vulnerable on his side tho

[flint tide]

I dunno about the other characters i only play jason

And sometimes lebron in 2v2s

[idle wolf]

Bro I have so much trouble with this move

[wide shale]

batman cant DI the divekick well, so you just move to the side and punish