Shaggy

[frozen geyser]

It really depends on a character by character basis. The way to punish people charging down attacks is to wait out their attack and punish with up b or uair. It’s usually a good idea to stay about halfway between the stage floor and the bottom blast zone. This should give you enough time to react in case your opponent runs off with a dair. If they do, you can dodge upwards and either jump back to stage or go for a reversal if they chose a laggy option

[frozen geyser]

Lmao I was charging rage and died at zero to big Rick sair

[glad marten]

Maybe dont charge near the blast zone when every character can kill you at 0 when you're close

[frozen geyser]

I wasn’t expecting to die

But it was kinda funny

@merry kiln that sandwich throw down to kick is really good. Definitely appreciate this find

Absolutely destroyed a ledge camping Superman

[glad marten]

Why did they remove armor from down b? Its actually useless without it

I've seen so many Shaggy's try to down b me and every time I just hit them because it doesn't have a hitbox until he lands

[frozen geyser]

Yes

[waxen pine]

They also got rid of the slowing on down tilt while I thought was weird

They removed a lot of status stuff actually :(

[frozen geyser]

Yeah dtilt 2 is just kinda useless now

[merry kiln]

ofcc !

need y'all to help me out with shaggy too

[merry kiln]

nope ! #clips message

[frozen geyser]

I mean, it’s still pretty bad. But at least it’s a lingering hitbox

[merry kiln]

the stomp bait always gets them

[dusk geyser]

I miss when you could connect 2, sometimes 3 stomps

whenever a mirror match shaggy would do that to me I knew the game was gonna be sweaty

[merry kiln]

that was never true I don't think

[frozen geyser]

In the beta

Stomp loops don’t work in the full release

But I think at mid percents, you might be able to jab jab stomp dodge jump dair

I need to experiment a bit more with that tho

[merry kiln]

I don't think it was true in the beta either, maybe before they got rid of the dair stomp loop

[glad marten]

tbh with it, it was pretty OP but without it it's so useless

[frozen geyser]

It used to be at the launch of the beta. They nerfed stomp like a month in

[glad marten]

Shaggy feels so bad to play now like actually what was PFG tryna cook

[eternal prism]

Shaggy Balance Suggestions:
In general just

• give him more combo strings but in turn
• reduce kb on kill moves like up special, side special, maybe some other special idk

[glad marten]

Massively reduce his damage too

I dealt like 40 damage in 3 attacks

[cloud minnow]

why'd shaggy lose all his sauce for this bro

[eternal prism]

Yeah he feels like a tank now when before he was sorta like a combo assassin with the loops

Or whatever

[cloud minnow]

it's the same combo with everyone 😭

like did they remove his other strings

[eternal prism]

side special does so much dmg and kb that spamming actually can work.

My friend can’t figure out how to beat it so he loses everytime lol

I feel bad

[merry kiln]

I said that too

shaggy with more combo potential is gonna be so guhhh

🥴🥴

[glad marten]

Shaggy can NOT work with combo potential rn his damage is WAY too high

Any combo will instantly put a character into kill range

[frozen geyser]

All of the top tiers already have more damage in a single combo than Shaggy and many of them don’t have much worse kill power either

[glad marten]

Its crazy how Shaggy doesn't have good combo damage because he cant combo

I played Shaggy for one if the few times during this release because of a mission and was shocked by how quickly I got my opponent to 60%

Compared to Joker, where I even loop my jab sometimes for a bit of extra damage, it was ridiculous

[dusk geyser]

what the heck

why did i not name myself DragonBallZoinks

[merry kiln]

read the message I replied to

[tawdry crane]

Nothing better than charging a punch through a Bugs Safe kick and clobbering them off the stage when they're at 11%

[frozen geyser]

Oh my they did it. Shaggy’s rage kick will finally be able to hit Harley’s slide

[lapis notch]

can someone tell me if the bugfix for neutral speciall patched hangryhopping? i'm busy rn

[lapis notch]

LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO

[frozen geyser]

Bro they didn’t fix nair in this patch…

According to the patch notes

Ok, so WW and Joker are still top tier

And they’ll be getting addressed in a later patch

Gizmo car probably doesn’t kill you at like 2% anymore

And he can’t just fully charge arrows to indefinitely use them

[waxen pine]

Gotta wait 11 more frames to jump out of side jab

[frozen geyser]

Jab loops are dead across the board

[waxen pine]

They’re really trying to nerf shaggy combo game huh

[frozen geyser]

It’s a problem with everyone tbh

Joker arguably gets nerfed more because his jab has the longest reach and his jab loops can go well past Shaggy’s

I imagine we’ll have to go for like jab jab utilt nair (when nair gets fixed)

If you can still dodge after jabs, then idk what the patch even accomplishes

Because then they just straight up didn’t remove dodge jab loops

[waxen pine]

I’ll have to test when I’m home from work

[merry kiln]

they aren’t

[frozen geyser]

Did they seriously not remove jab loops lmao

[merry kiln]

only person I’ve seen jump after jab two is TK

[frozen geyser]

And me

[merry kiln]

they’re using him as their reference 🪦

[frozen geyser]

Does the change only affect jumping after jab 2?

[merry kiln]

yeah

[frozen geyser]

Assuming that’s what “jump branch” means

Rip jab 1,2 dair then

[merry kiln]

well I hope so

my video game slang is dead it might just mean they ruined his jabs

which is shaggy’s only approach option

[frozen geyser]

Oh wait you know what, it’s in the general section that they added a 15 frame lockout window to jabbing after a dodge

If you just did it

Like jab 1,2 dodge jab 1,2

[merry kiln]

so you can’t dodge attack anymore?

[frozen geyser]

You can

But they say after jabs, if you input a dodge attack and that attack is another jab, there’s a 15 frame lockout window so it’s gonna be 15 frames slower

That shouldn’t be applied to any other attacks tho

[merry kiln]

ahh

so the loop’s gone?

[frozen geyser]

Probably

I’m at work, so I can’t test

But jab loops across the board should be gone

[merry kiln]

I mean honestly I’ve stopped doing it

many better follow ups

[frozen geyser]

It was a nice way to get a little extra damage as Shaggy, but it was way more oppressive for characters like Joker who have the best jab in the game

Joker’s jab has so much range that he could still jab loop in burnout several more times

[merry kiln]

shaggy is just reads, it’s weird

[frozen geyser]

Can rage neutral special be used in any combos?

Like rage up special is slower than normal up special, so it sometimes just doesn’t have anything guaranteed that leads into it

But I’d like to see if rage neutral special can be a finisher for any low to mid percents combos

[merry kiln]

it was the best rage move when it’s armor worked

[frozen geyser]

Something that does more than just jab jab rage up b

[merry kiln]

for some reason it just doesn’t now

[frozen geyser]

I think it does have armor, but not while he’s moving

I’ve gotten hit while moving to try and save a teammate in 2v2

[merry kiln]

yeah that was a thing in the beta too but for one patch then they fixed it which means it was unintentional

[frozen geyser]

Aerial down special not having armor makes it completely useless tho

[merry kiln]

said that too

[frozen geyser]

It has no hitbox while falling, doesn’t have armor to help you land easier, and doesn’t even kill that early compared to a lot of other moves in Shaggy’s kit

[merry kiln]

I’m certain they didn’t mean for them to be this useless

[frozen geyser]

And it has too much lag after use to combo into anything

[merry kiln]

I used it in the beta to reverse moves

like an arya getting you at the top, use it armor breaks then up special

[glad marten]

Didn't they gut jab combos though?

[frozen geyser]

Yes

[glad marten]

I wonder if that means I cant use my RPG out of jab 2

[frozen geyser]

Dodge cancel jab combos are dead

[glad marten]

Bad if true

[frozen geyser]

You can

[glad marten]

I hope so

[merry kiln]

dodge whiff not jab

[glad marten]

Infinite loops off 1 jab is stupid

[merry kiln]

well jab after dodge

[frozen geyser]

There’s 15 frames of lag if you cancel jab into dodge jab

[tardy summit]

is n-air a actual move now

[frozen geyser]

And there’s character specific lag for trying to jump out of jab

[frozen geyser]

No

They said “in a patch coming soon”

[tardy summit]

dang

[glad marten]

Based

Release a crappy patch and say all good changes will be in a later patch

[frozen geyser]

Which means Shaggy nair is useless for another week

[frozen geyser]

Nah, this patch isn’t crappy

It’s just a bit underbaked

[merry kiln]

you know if you get a stock in local play it still counts for your opponent

I’m really confused as to why they don’t test everything

[frozen geyser]

If this patch was accompanied with nerfs to more of the top tiers to bring them in line, and more of the low tiers were buffed, the patch would’ve been a great one

Jason and Lebron getting literally nothing (the projectile invincibility for Jason dash attack isn’t enough and is hardly relevant) is a huge L

Jason has had the lowest win rate in 1v1 and 2v2 since like day 3

He needs help

[glad marten]

We got jab loops removed and Velma can now use one of her attacks 2 times in a match instead of 1

Garbage patch

[merry kiln]

jake in question

[frozen geyser]

Jake could also use some buffs, but like the wrong buff could make him instantly top tier like the beta

Jake was the most used and highest average placing 1v1 character in tournaments in the beta

[merry kiln]

also I don’t know why nobody ever talked about this but for mouse and keyboard having certain binds for moves don’t work properly for characters like jake and harley where they can control their sair and dair

it’s just hits in a straight line

I thought that was intentional with jake until I tried to do it manually

shaggy's fine only thing you can't do is jump after the second jab and the jab loop

[frozen geyser]

Still waiting for the nair revert

Then Shaggy will be back

[merry kiln]

anyone on pc lagging?

[waxen pine]

Nah this patch blows dick dude

Gizmo and Joker nerfs are fine I guess but I just hate how cautious they’re being with character changes

“Hey we’re gonna delay ranked so we have time to get game balance worked out but we’re only going to change two moves across the whole cast at a time so ranked will be dropping March 2025”

[glad marten]

Tf you mean they're fine 😭

Joker has slightly more whiff on his side b and cant loop jab

Thats like

The most abysmal nerf ever

All it changes is how much damage he can get from 1 combo and how spammable that neutral monster is

[frozen geyser]

He still out-combos Shaggy by like 2-3x with significantly better neutral

But that’s more of a Shaggy problem tbh

[glad marten]

It really is a Shaggy issue

Shaggy needs his combo game fixed

[waxen pine]

Read the part where I said I think they’re being too cautious

[glad marten]

Just revert him back to beta

[glad marten]

They're not gonna stop being cautious

They did the same in the beta

Bugs got like 1 extra frame of whiff on his nair and dair each patch

[waxen pine]

I know, that’s what I said and you disagreed with me

[glad marten]

I disagreed with you saying the nerfs are fine, but ig you also immediately contradict yourself by saying they're too cautious

[waxen pine]

Dude forget it

[dusk geyser]

Jason hitboxes still not fixed...

[placid kettle]

I don't really feel Shaggy's nerfs

[frozen geyser]

Shaggy’s nair nerf was hugely detrimental to his combo game in 1v1

His performance in 2v2 is largely unchanged and is fine where it’s at really

[glad marten]

Well thats probably all the devs care about

[placid kettle]

Oh yeah I think I've seen that before, it was included in an infinite combo:
Jab, jab, jump, nair, repeat until at a killable state, up special

[frozen geyser]

Yeah

But like they nerfed jab loops and jab combos across the board, so like the nair nerf is really unnecessary rn

[lapis notch]

did they seriously patch out hangry hopping

[glad marten]

I HATE fun and enjoyment

NOBODY is allowed to be happy

[lapis notch]

It was literally the coolest thing shaggy had in his arsenal, i really wish they bring it back

i would have rather them nerf it into the ground than nerf it because it was just that cool

call this the iron giant effect

"People were having too much fun with this so we removed it!"

[haughty cobalt]

I'm calling it now, Agent Smith is going to be better Shaggy

[glad marten]

Agent Smith is gonna be new so unless they put Shaggy on steroids again, ofc Smith is gonna be better

[haughty cobalt]

But like
Shaggy but better

Shaggy with a gun, if you will

[lapis notch]

istg i already see it coming now at this rate by the time late game comes around shaggy is going to be mid to bottom tier without a doubt, either that or he's going to just be unfun

[glad marten]

He already is unfun

They have a goal and its to make Shaggy braindead for noobs

[lapis notch]

yup, and they sure succeeded.

[frozen geyser]

Ok, so the disconnecting from desync issue doesn’t really happen anymore. Instead whenever there’s a desync, there’s just like a 2-3 second rollback

[glad marten]

That's actually fire wtf

[frozen geyser]

It’s really jarring

I wish we could see connection pings

[orchid wave]

Oh god this doesn’t feel good

Why can’t I jump after jab anymore

This isn’t right

[frozen geyser]

Yeah, Shaggy jab combos are basically just jab 1,2 up b; jab 1,2 utilt; and jab 1,2 dtilt

No more jab into aerials

[orchid wave]

I can get Dtilt into Utilt if that means anything

Also when I set the CPU to dodge after hitstun I for some reason was able to hit jab 1 2 Dtilt Utilt Uair shoryu Uair shoryu

Like is that true or is the bot bugged cause it certainly didn’t feel true

[frozen geyser]

The bot sometimes just doesn’t dodge after hitstun

[orchid wave]

Thought so

Like Utilt comboing makes sense that move has 5 years of hitstun

But Uair?

[eternal prism]

Yeah they removed our airwalker combos for lebron which makes it harder to kill confirm

Despite this it’s not too bad of a nerf because aerial parries can be pretty useful for lebron. He just needs way more improved neutral tools to be a good character

[merry kiln]

dash after down tilt is true until like 100 too

up tilt the other way after the second jab into sair is also true

[frozen geyser]

Anyone else on PC notice a significant drop in performance with this patch?

[dusk geyser]

yeah its chunky

[glad marten]

I got hit a whopping 2 times and was at 45 damage

His damage is actually ridiculous

What were the devs tryna cook

[merry kiln]

yeah

[eternal prism]

I think they just wanted to make him a heavy sorta character with big hits but lacks combo game now

[glad marten]

They wanna make him for noobs ig

[strange yoke]

sure did. massive drop

[merry kiln]

y'all #combos message

5% perk ^^

[eternal prism]

Bruh that is insane

can they do anything about that?

[merry kiln]

it's a true zero to death if that's what you mean

it's only true if you do it right thoo

[glad marten]

Airwalker might be the most broken perk in the game like 90% of the 0tds in this game abuse it

[glad marten]

They could
Replace airwalker with triple jump

[dusk geyser]

holy spit

[eternal prism]

True lol

I wanna ladder with lebron again

[dusk geyser]

triple jump was goated.
I don't like their reasoning for removing it.

They said that everyone was running the same perks and they wanted people to have variety with their builds.

But they made nearly every perk kinda useless/niche. People will always gravitate to the best perks. There is no diversity because 80% of people will just run meta

Either add tripple jump back or just give everyone 3 jumps lmao

[eternal prism]

Yeah but I’ve found to adapt without it. Was definitely more useful on some characters than others. Specifically vertical characters so all horizontal characters ended being kinda bad cause of triple jump making vertical characters kill earlier

[frozen geyser]

I will say triple jump was definitely detrimental to the game

It was just so far and above the best perk in that category that there was no reason not to run it

And it vastly removed any sort of advantage state

As cool as airwalker is, I also don’t think it should be in the game. It’s arguably even more detrimental and I’m sure it’s gonna become the meta for many characters

[glad marten]

It IS meta for many characters

[eternal prism]

Yeah that’s fair having an extra jump made disadvantage less of a burden

[frozen geyser]

Out of jumps and specials for recovering? Airwalker gives you all of them back

[glad marten]

It unlocks a billion 0tds for everyone

[frozen geyser]

Your grounded attacks are better for combos? Airwalker probably gives you a ToD

[eternal prism]

It doesn’t though

[frozen geyser]

Thankfully you can’t use 2 airwalker platforms without touching the stage

I mean, I’m sure you guys already saw the easy Arya ToD with jab up special loops using airwalker

[eternal prism]

Yeah lebron used to do a similar thing with jab but that combo was actually kinda balanced and didn’t kill till like 100

[dusk geyser]

does utilt always knockback diagonally at all percents?

[waxen pine]

It depends on DI

can launch anywhere from straight up and confirm into up special or launch at like a 45 degree angle with optimal DI

[dusk geyser]

I don't think I've been properly DI'ing. Can DI happen at the moment of impact or is it as soon as you see smoke trails?

[merry kiln]

if you use it the other way, yes

[dusk geyser]

OOOOH I think I see what you did. You did a quick turn and utilted

[pallid tinsel]

Hi guys

I’m not new to shaggy but I could use some tips

[dusk geyser]

you can probably look through chat at clips Jannete has posted for most recent combo routes since new patches always change what's optimal/doable.

Shaggy is super stubby so it can be hard to get in to start a jab combo off some characters. You gotta really know your spacing and whiff punishes with him

to this day I still don't know how to properly approach and punish Finn...I think my winrate against him is like 20%

I'm just learning the morty matchup

[frozen geyser]

Hangry Man is OP. Other perks I typically run are snowball, last stand, and pugilist. General approach options are dodge jab, dair, and nair (when the revert goes through next patch). Most combos after the universal dodge jab loop nerfs use jab 1,2 into utilt or dtilt and nair will be a combo extender (next patch when the revert happens). If opponents are camping you, you can always pull a sandwich and either throw it at them or get free rage. Kill confirms are mostly either jab 1,2 up b or dair up b, but rage neutral special in 1v1 is a very good reversal kill option and rage kick is good to challenge people who just run at you with armor or use a slow option you can whiff punish. You’ll mostly want to read your opponent’s habits in disadvantage and kill by waiting out dodges with delayed up b or kick. If your opponent runs out their dodge meter and is in burnout, basically everything is a true combo and you should kill them if you can hit them. Currently, Shaggy loses to all of the top tiers like WW, Joker, etc and can struggle against zoners like Marvin and T&J, but most people aren’t very good with zoners, so they’re very doable matchups. Just be sure not to get into a habit of spamming kick because it’s very punishable to anyone with a brain

Hope some of that helps

[tardy summit]

hangry man is so infuriating to fight

[frozen geyser]

Hangry Man is a bit too good imo

It’ll probably catch a nerf at some point in the future

[tardy summit]

like if you aren’t breathing on the shaggy when he starts to charge with sandwich it’s over

[frozen geyser]

Yeah it’s literally like half a second charge time

You pretty much can’t stop him

[merry kiln]

it's bound to get nerfed but the 5% perk is the best perk for shaggy rn

sandwich for 2v2s maybe

[frozen geyser]

What makes you think 5% is better?

[tardy summit]

in 2s it’s the best option and it’s not even close

[merry kiln]

5% with snowball perk kill at 60 lol

[tardy summit]

your teammate just needs to cover you for a second and your golden

[merry kiln]

you can kill anyone at like 75 - 90 with jab jab up special

[frozen geyser]

I mean, without the 5% perk, that range is more like 85-100 but like tbh I’d rather get free rage specials for the fear factor and have an easy long range whiff punish tool

[merry kiln]

you don't get it

shaggy deals a lot more damage and kills a lot earlier

the stage perk zero to death doesn't work without 5% either

[frozen geyser]

It’s 5% extra damage which is only 5 extra damage every 100 damage dealt which isn’t a lot

[merry kiln]

12% with snowball

[frozen geyser]

The jab jab reverse utilt airwalker jab jab rage up b?

[merry kiln]

yeah

[frozen geyser]

Don’t forget pugilist (idk how much it does tho)

[merry kiln]

more damage and more knockback

that's all shaggy is about

[frozen geyser]

I mean, I’m not saying it’s a bad option

[merry kiln]

air up special can kill any light character at like 40

[frozen geyser]

But I personally like being able to get rage specials at any point to whiff punish with rage kick

And the weaken stacks make pretty much anything after that kill anyway

Idk I can see the benefit to both

[merry kiln]

yeahh

[frozen geyser]

But One Last Zoinks is just worse in comparison

[merry kiln]

I used to use sandwich too because it's a very good option for very passive people

but when they nerf it, it's definitely gonna have a longer duration and is gonna go back to being unused

[frozen geyser]

You only get one rage and you need to be at 100, so it doesn’t even take effect for the majority of your game time

I think it’ll eventually come down to HM and 5% being used for specific matchups

[merry kiln]

used to be so good in the beta 😔

you could reverse any air string and kill them at zero lol

[frozen geyser]

Like against small characters who will die extremely early, the 5% perk will likely be better

[tardy summit]

I think pugilist is 10% after some testing

[frozen geyser]

But against zoners who generally play passive, HM will be better

[tardy summit]

so 22% overall

[frozen geyser]

I think that’s what it was in the beta

10% is kinda nuts

[tardy summit]

yea it’s kinda insane

[frozen geyser]

Like pugilist is easily Shaggy’s best perk 3 in pretty much every matchup

[tardy summit]

you have literally no other reason to run a different perk in that slot

[frozen geyser]

I don’t even think I’d use either armor breaking perk against WW

[merry kiln]

I do and it's very useful

always catches them off guard

[tardy summit]

I think the dash attack one works better

also gives you a reason to use dash attack

[merry kiln]

ohh I thought that was the one they were talking about anyway

[merry kiln]

dash attack is one of shaggy's best moves

[tardy summit]

really?

I’m still not used to using it

[merry kiln]

dash attack into grounded side special at the edge of the stage nearly always catches them off guard and kills at like 30

best way to use it is dodge one of their attacks, run into them they'll get scared and dodge then you use the dash right after they dodge

[tardy summit]

kinda wish there was a way to bind dash attack to do it instantly but that would probably break it balance wise

[merry kiln]

it's not out of the question since they did say they were going to add a neutral dodge bind

[frozen geyser]

No, the ones that replace perk 3 are full charge moves break armor and breaking armor stops them from using armor again for a little while

Which are like not really that worth

Like in theory stopping a WW from using armor again is good, but that implies that you hit her armor in which you probably just ate a full 70% combo

[merry kiln]

try out the 5% perk and tell me your thoughts on it :3

[frozen geyser]

I did originally and swapped over to HM and liked that one more, but I’ll try 5% again to see if my opinion still stands

[frozen geyser]

I’m now getting an error when trying to buy new characters…

[dusk geyser]

Would love for a dash bind. As is it's easy to make a mistake where you dash attack instead of forward jab

[frozen geyser]

Dude people are so toxic in this game. Everyone always taunts if they win and no one rematches ever regardless if they win or lose

[strange yoke]

i hardly ever get a rematch if i lose, but about 50% of the time if i win the opponent wants to run it back

i normally do but some people will dip 1-1 if they win the second game. fatherless

[frozen geyser]

People in 2v2 sometimes all rematch

No one in 1v1 ever rematches. Everyone just one and dones

Probably because they’re scared of people figuring out their linear one-dimensional gameplay

[haughty cobalt]

Lol on DI away jab -> jab -> turnaround up attack -> sair -> dodge cancel jump sair
Puts them at 50 for a jab -> jab -> turnaround up attack -> up special kill

#combos message

[glad marten]

Why be a respectful and upstanding citizen when I can teabag after narrowly winning and immediately decline the rematch out of fear of losing the second game and having my imaginary ELO drop by 2 points?

[frozen geyser]

Dude that’s literally how it feels lmao

Like it’s unranked

Just rematch me

[glad marten]

I usually 1 and done because people just have irritating and tedious playstyles tbh

Like fighting any T&J is a game of cat and mouse, literally and figuratively

[frozen geyser]

I only don’t rematch people who are very obviously just fishing for infinites with WW because she still has her jab dair loops fully intact

Which happens to be basically every WW

[glad marten]

Fr

[frozen geyser]

And I do wanna that that I hope all of the top tiers do get nerfed. I feel like the perfect power level of character is probably around Batman

And like many of the top tiers are just a bit too ridiculous

The fact that there was no mention of how broken Steven was and that he’d also be a target for adjustments in the next patch is concerning

[dusk geyser]

this is shnasty

[frozen geyser]

His dair is literally an infinite

[haughty cobalt]

Up attack has a surprisingly early branch into jump, and sair has a surprisingly early branch to cancel to stuff too

[frozen geyser]

I cannot wait for Shaggy nair to be a real move again

But yeah, cool combo

[strange yoke]

ive been saying this and couldnt agree more. been putting alot of time into batman and he just feels fair. any kills i get feel earned

[safe knot]

Shaggy goes crazy, sheesh

So far, I think this character is easily Top 10 material.

[lapis notch]

personally rn i don't think it matters, if you aren't top 5 you aren't winning against someone on the same skill level as you from my personal experience, at least not in 1v1s.

it did not help that they removed hangry hopping, it was the best tool he had against the top 5 annnnnddd its gone

the best thing you can really do rn is pick hangry man and pray they give you the 1 second to get free rage

[glad marten]

Put any amount of distance between you and your opponent and hangry man gives you free rage

You don't seem to understand just how fast that perk really is

It's actually ridiculous

Unless you're already kissing Shaggy, he gets free rage off of it

Almost nobody has what they need to reach him except Joker SPECIFICALLY if he has his spades cards and even then its iffy, maybe Bugs with a pie but that thing is pretty slow, basically nobody can touch Shaggy before he gets rage

It's stupidly fast

[frozen geyser]

Imma be real, the nerfs to Harley I think might make her not top 5 anymore. She’s still good, but without her slide covering the entire stage and having that stupid body block property, and her utilt being able to easily cancel into a jump sair for extended combos makes her much easier to deal with

She’s probably still top 10, but I don’t really have an issue with her anymore

WW on the other hand is a huge issue and man she’s as oppressive as ever

Shaggy just has no answers to a good WW player

She massively outranges Shaggy with hard hitting disjoints, she out-damages Shaggy in combos by 2-3x, she has insanely easy and reliable kill confirms, her shield just completely nullifies sandwich and it’s impossible to approach her without rage, and she’s heavy and doesn’t die easily

The change from attack decay to stale moves really benefitted her because now she can always zone with sair and her combo game is significantly better

[merry kiln]

dair up dodge into another dair into sair is true at like 40+ damage

[green oxide]

Decided to have Shaggy as my new third main lmao

[green tinsel]

if youre gonna do that dont just side spam like a bunch of other shaggy players do

im sick of playing against poeple like that

[frozen geyser]

Spamming kick in general is
just not a good strategy and is easy to deal with

[green tinsel]

that doesnt make it not annoying

[frozen geyser]

Nair is currently nonfunctional, so most of your combos will be something like jab 1,2 reverse utilt sair or something similar

[green tinsel]

and it doesnt help that if im dealing with someone like adam at the same time

[frozen geyser]

I mean, Black Adam is just better than Shaggy

He can nullify all projectiles with his projectile shield, he has good kill power, his aerial drift is insane letting him easily chase people down and juggle them with uair forever, and he has better projectiles than Shaggy

And of course his utilt can loop large characters

[green tinsel]

That’s what I mean. You need to pay attention to what Adam’s doing so much. If I’ve got some spammer on me at the same time it gets annoying. Side spam does just enough to get in the way of taking care of bigger threats

[frozen geyser]

Oh are you talking in 2v2?

[green tinsel]

Yeah

[frozen geyser]

I mean kick spamming is a little harder to deal with because the Shaggy’s teammate can cover him

But like kick spam loses to jump

[green tinsel]

im not saying its impossible to deal with. i just want people to stop playing like that

its irritating even when its not ruining anything

[frozen geyser]

Unfortunately bad players will probably stay bad

[green tinsel]

yeah

[frozen geyser]

I’m more annoyed when I get a kick spammer on my team lol

[green tinsel]

i get the same feeling when i got banana guards on mine

[frozen geyser]

See the thing is that you can’t punish Banana Guard for side b spam

Banana Guard spammers are just objectively better Shaggy spammers

[green tinsel]

true

[frozen geyser]

His spear has more range, more active frames, and less whiff lag

And it kills significantly earlier even after the nerfs

[green oxide]

I mean I chose Shaggy because he's my favorite character in Scooby Doo growing up and his moveset is pretty cool

My third main was Jason originally but he just didn't stick with me because of him being too punishable

And I did play as Shaggy a bit back in beta also

[placid kettle]

So real except I love the whole Scooby Doo Gang

If anyone else in the gang gets added I'm fs playing them too

[frozen geyser]

I mean, same and it also helps that he has a somewhat similar moveset to Luigi in Smash who is my main in that game

[green oxide]

That's actually true

[green oxide]

I would too but I hope they put the titular protagonist himself

[placid kettle]

Scooby I think you mean?

[green oxide]

Yes

[placid kettle]

I kinda see him being a Reindog 2.0

[green oxide]

I've never played Reindog so was just wondering how

[placid kettle]

Well he's a dog like Reindog so I feel like he'll def have a move to do with his claws or his teeth

There's no really special things about Scooby tbh to where they can design special attacks for him

[green oxide]

Yeah that's true

It would be funny if they give him an ultra instinct move too

[placid kettle]

Lolll

[green oxide]

As well as Scooby Snacks he can throw

[placid kettle]

Scooby Snacks for Shaggy and Scooby, I honestly like that

[green oxide]

Yeah as a way to signify their bond and all that

Especially in 2v2

[placid kettle]

Honestly PFG hire this man as a Game Designer

[green oxide]

Yes lmao

I'll give them big brained ideas

[pallid tinsel]

I just got my first shaggy win of the day after 30 matches

I 3-0’d a steven player

[merry kiln]

wow

congrats 😧

[waxen pine]

lets go!

[pallid tinsel]

Chat I won my second match

Won my 3rd

We on a roll baby

[waxen pine]

LFGGGG

[pallid tinsel]

I’m gonna hear the sound of shaggys kick connecting in my nightmares

[glad marten]

Just press jump

[pallid tinsel]

I’m using shaggy

Duh

[glad marten]

Shaggy's side b is like one of the weakest pieces of his kit

[pallid tinsel]

It does the most damage though

[glad marten]

So?

He already does high damage with all his other attacks

Side b ain't his best kill move and it ain't his best damage move

[frozen geyser]

Use dair, nair (when nair gets fixed), and jab more in general. They’re a lot less risky to use and can lead to Shaggy’s combo game

Sure landing one kick might do like 20 damage, but landing a combo will net you more

The most consistent staple kill confirm Shaggy has is jab jab up special which kills reliably at 85-100 depending on character

Except Iron Giant, but like literally any move will combo him

If you have rage, then everything kills earlier

[merry kiln]

iron giant is scary

[glad marten]

You can combo him but if he hits you even once you're almost certainly "cooked" as the kids say

[frozen geyser]

He won’t be when they further tune him down. He still apparently had two ToD combos:

1. Side special grab to up special off the side
2. Nair to nair to up special off the top

Basically, his up special is just too good at carrying people into the blast zone

[merry kiln]

ignoring the zero to deaths his less hitstun is very weird

it’s like at any moment anything they do can just reverse everything

[deft viper]

any tips for the shaggy? I played him for a long time but learning something new doesn't hurt

[glad marten]

Spam side b

[deft viper]

the tiger knee u mean ( i forgot the names of the moves )

[glad marten]

Side special, kick

[deft viper]

ohhh okay lol

[glad marten]

But nah really

Use hangry man

Abuse it the devs probably wont fix it

It's insanely broken rn

Especially in 1s

Unless your opponent is kissing you, you're getting rage off of it

[deft viper]

i thought of it since sandwich with rage aintvthat good anymore

and some characters kill u at 90 or less

[glad marten]

Only the top tiers and Joker really tbh

Shaggy kills half the cast at like 60 rn with rage too

[deft viper]

that s true

i can give it a try, should be fun

thx for the help

[frozen geyser]

You’ll want to farm rage with Hangry Man against people who play passively (mainly zoners). Approaching is generally limited to dair, nair, and jab. Jab jab up special is your reliable kill confirm that works on everyone regardless of move staling. Shaggy’s combo game in general is pretty limited due to the nair nerf, but they’re going to revert it next patch due to the jab changes. Best advice I can give is to not be super predictable with your approach or getting out of disadvantage because Shaggy doesn’t have many good options for that. You’ll want to mix up timings and read your opponent’s habits to kill them for their mistakes instead

And of course, don’t spam kick in neutral. It’s easily punishable by anyone who knows how to jump

[subtle vault]

Do any of ya'll who play Shaggy wish that his moveset was more true to his in-show self, instead of mostly being the Ultra Instinct meme?

[deft viper]

tbh for me it s good like it is now

the ultra instict meme is basically just a bit of his kit ( a very important one but still )

[deft viper]

alrrr

[rich frigate]

damn shaggy has so much kill power

[glad marten]

How else should the devs make him noob friendly?

[rich frigate]

the devs need to make him balanced before noob friendly

[glad marten]

He wouldn't work very well imo
He only exists because of UI

[glad marten]

LMAO

PFG? Balancing?

What do you think this is?

[rich frigate]

im hopeful

[deft viper]

@frozen geyser also am gonna practice ur combo, it s really good

didnt know u could follow up with the stomp

[glad marten]

The jab changes only affect dodge canceling jab, dont they?

[merry kiln]

go to the lab and memorize one combo then play passively 💕

[frozen geyser]

You can’t dodge jab loop anymore and you can’t jab into aerials anymore either

So, your only routes are jab 1,2 utilt; jab 1,2 dtilt; or jab 1,2 up b

When nair gets fixed, we’ll likely be able to do something like jab 1,2 utilt dair nair dodge utilt up b

At mid percents

[dusk geyser]

think you can input dash attack after jab 1,2 dtilt at low-mid percents. Jenette posted it in clips

idk how hard it is on controller with the stick but it's easier on keyboard

[frozen geyser]

I know. I meant what you can do after jab 1,2

It’s just dtilt, utilt, and up b

You used to be able to do jab 1,2 into either nair or dair

[dusk geyser]

I miss that combo

idk how much I want to continue with Shaggy. I'm kinda waiting until Samurai Jack comes to the roster

[frozen geyser]

Rip this staple:
Jab 1,2 -> dair -> nair -> jab 1,2 -> utilt -> up b

[dusk geyser]

my beloved

[frozen geyser]

I mean, when nair is fixed, Shaggy’s combo game will be fine

[dusk geyser]

were patches usually tues or thurs?

[frozen geyser]

We’ll get more than just jab 1,2 utilt uair

[frozen geyser]

I think Thursday

[dusk geyser]

i don't like the focus on jab 1,2 utilt uair. It feels like people will complain about uair being too fast and easy to juggle which might lead to a nerf

because everyone complains

[frozen geyser]

Honestly tho I’m really hoping this upcoming patch fixes the issue where I just can’t buy anything from the store including new characters

[dusk geyser]

real

[frozen geyser]

I wanted to buy Rick because he seems cool

But nope

I just get a purchase error

Can’t use fighter currency or glemium or prestige currency for anything

At least I can buy perks…

[dusk geyser]

i had a feeling there was a bug but wasn't sure? I didn't see an option to buy older skins that were released in beta

[frozen geyser]

You can

[dusk geyser]

I know some events were beta exclusive like valentines day

[frozen geyser]

You have to go to the specific fighter, go to variants, and then they should all be there

The whole UI kinda really needs a full rework tbh

[dusk geyser]

yeah... super confusing. Should just one page for all skins and have the ones that aren't available greyed out

[frozen geyser]

All they need is something similar to the prestige shop layout

But for skins

Each block is a different character and then you can just see a list of all the character skins

[dusk geyser]

What do you think/hope the first prestige Shaggy skin will be?

[frozen geyser]

Idk

I wouldn’t be surprised to see matrix skins eventually show up somewhere

I know beta players get the BP for free and matrix Jason is there

[dusk geyser]

I saw someone posted a shaggy matrix skin but idk if its been shown where/when thats available

[frozen geyser]

I’m kinda surprised they haven’t added red shirt Shaggy

[dusk geyser]

I forgot he was a thing in beta

[frozen geyser]

Like that’s such a simple pallet swap

Was he? I didn’t have him if that was the case

Iirc red shirt Shaggy originates from the Scooby Doo and the Cyber Chase movie

Idk if he appeared before then

[dusk geyser]

I might be misremembering. I do remember back in beta people complained that it either changed to just being available for red team or was always available until that change came?

[glad marten]

I jab into aerials all the time on Joker
Jab > jab > dair is one of the strongest combos he has

[dusk geyser]

Joker is just better jab shaggy

lol

[frozen geyser]

Jab 1,2 -> dair -> air down b -> uair

I’ve been hit by that several times

[glad marten]

Jokers jab is disgusting

[merry kiln]

gets annoying when every joker ever does the same thing

[glad marten]

Yeah too many Jokers fish for jab

Spam side b more you hooligans!!

[glad marten]

Its so strong

[merry kiln]

I’m talking about the strings in general

[dusk geyser]

1. Jab1 sucks people in
2. Longer range than Shaggy jab
3. More true combo strings than Shaggy

lol

[glad marten]

I mean he relies pretty heavily on a couple combos

[frozen geyser]

They do that too

[glad marten]

He doesnt have a ton of combo routes

[glad marten]

Its such a broken move

[dusk geyser]

I guess neither does shaggy anymore

[glad marten]

Its what the casuals hype up Shaggys side b to be, minus the ridiculous kill power (it does combo into a kill move though because why shouldnt it!)

[frozen geyser]

Side b x3 to uair is insane

[glad marten]

How tf you getting hit by 3 side bs

[merry kiln]

yeah I guess it’s not really the fault of the people that do play him

[frozen geyser]

Do air side b and drag the opponent into the ground which lets you get 2 more because your specials are refreshed

[glad marten]

Ah

[frozen geyser]

It’s really dumb and kills stupid early on stages like Scooby’s Mansion

[merry kiln]

not even uair I zero to death’d someone with the side special x3 alone 😭

[glad marten]

Its truly ridiculous
I fought a couple Jokers while playing Batman and it was NOT a fun time

[frozen geyser]

I mean, Joker has a top 5 highest win rate currently for a reason

[dusk geyser]

maybe he needs more whiff on jab 1? idk how to fix him

the range is absurd

[merry kiln]

I think between him and shaggy it’s pretty equal in a matchup

[glad marten]

His jab will forever be one of the strongest jabs in the game

What needs to be nerfed is his side b

And uair

[frozen geyser]

Nah, at least in the game’s current state, Shaggy definitely loses

[dusk geyser]

his uair feels like a better shaggy uair. Big hitbox, around same startup I think

[frozen geyser]

Joker air side b alone beats literally every Shaggy option except rage specials

[merry kiln]

I haven’t really been losing to much jokers since the patch

[glad marten]

Its a slightly weaker Bugs uair

Minus the being undodgeable for some reason part

[dusk geyser]

thats a better way to put it

[merry kiln]

don’t think I’ve lost once with shaggy yet

[frozen geyser]

I mean, Joker is pretty popular, so the average Joker player isn’t that good

[merry kiln]

but they all play the same

[frozen geyser]

But the ones who are good really show why the character is insane

[merry kiln]

so there isn’t much of a distinction

[glad marten]

The average fighting game player loves to brag about how good they are and ranked charts always show a surplus of players stuck in one particular rank

[frozen geyser]

Wait until you see one’s who actually know how to bait approaches, shuffle cards to always have triple available to beat rage specials, and have significantly more optimized combos

[merry kiln]

all of them

do that

[frozen geyser]

It’s like why am I playing Shaggy when I can just play a top tier with better combos and neutral

[glad marten]

I swapped from Joker to Batman because I felt like playing my childhood favorite superhero and oh my holy moly goodness gracious my win rate plummeted
Fighting top tiers is so much harder when you're not also playing an S tier it's actually painful, probably just a skill issue since I know a whopping 0 Batman combos rn though

[frozen geyser]

(The answer is just because I like Shaggy as a character)

[merry kiln]

do you think batman beats shaggy

[frozen geyser]

Batman is like the perfect level of where characters should be balanced imo

[frozen geyser]

It’s even imo

[dusk geyser]

I might just learn Arya until Samurai Jack comes out tbh

[merry kiln]

I think a good batman easily wins

[merry kiln]

I play her but she’s not worth learning right now

she’s no different than joker when it comes to variety

[dusk geyser]

I just like that she can steal other moves. Definitely a fun mixup if you can learn the combos from each character

[frozen geyser]

A lot of the “assassin” class of characters also have pretty low kill power

[glad marten]

He was definitely one of Shaggy's worst match ups in the beta but that could've been because he was ridiculously fast and oppressive
I'd say the MU is still in his favor since Shaggy does have some issues handling projectiles and that batarang can be used a lot as long as he picks it back up, and he's still a quick character
Pretty sure he's still also the second lightest in the game though which means Shaggy's killing him with an up b at like 60% rage or not

[merry kiln]

pretty fun until you realize you have to do the same thing every other arya does which is jab face steal jab up special neutral special

[frozen geyser]

If Batman didn’t get two-touch-of-death by Shaggy, I’d say the matchup was Batman favored

[merry kiln]

yeah I agree it’s pretty mixed

[frozen geyser]

Currently with nerfed Shaggy nair, Batman wins, but it’ll be even next patch

[merry kiln]

I honestly think the matchup I have the most trouble with is batman

above iron giant and wonder woman

gizmo

[frozen geyser]

I’ve played against and as Batman enough to know the matchup

[glad marten]

Harleys nair and up special are ridiculous
Finn has a 0td
Arya still has her stupid ladder combo, I think
Batman has decent kill power but I think he's actually a bruiser now

[glad marten]

No way Batman is a harder MU than WW

[frozen geyser]

Batman was always a bruiser

[merry kiln]

I haven’t used batman since this release so it always feels weird to me

[glad marten]

I swear he was an assassin in the beta

[frozen geyser]

And it’s really just Harley who has kill power

Finn has a ToD because he has insane air drift and nair is godlike

[merry kiln]

I use dash a lot and the dash breaks armor perk against wonder woman so it’s definitely a lot easier for me than it once was

[frozen geyser]

But he literally needs to carry you into the blast zone

Arya has a ladder, but you won’t die until like 130

[dusk geyser]

I for the love of god do not know the Finn/Shaggy matchup.

My winrrate against him is probably 20% or less

[frozen geyser]

Finn’s range is really oppressive

[merry kiln]

no she kills at like 60 if for some reason you can’t dodge her fully charged sair after the up special

[dusk geyser]

I don't understand why he and WW have disjointed hitboxes but Jason doesn't

[frozen geyser]

She relies on sair and uair after her up special so often that they become stale and stop killing early from my experience

[merry kiln]

play very passive until they do something stupid

[frozen geyser]

Different story on Scooby’s tho

[dusk geyser]

too bad I am stupider LOL

[frozen geyser]

Because they wanted Jason to be ass

Idk

[merry kiln]

haha

too bad shaggy is probably the dumbest character in the game

[frozen geyser]

Run Hangry Man and react to Finn charging any grounded attack with a jump and charge rage or pull sandwich

His approach is very linear

So basically just run away in the air where he can’t hit you

Charge rage and then use rage kick to punish him any time he charges a grounded attack

His aerials are surprisingly stubby for a sword character

[merry kiln]

I might have to use hangry man often again

[frozen geyser]

But don’t get hit by nair

[merry kiln]

doing more damage and killing earlier is so good thoo

[frozen geyser]

If he air-to-airs you with nair and you get hit, you’re gonna explode

Nair will always combo into sair 1 up b

[frozen geyser]

I definitely recommend it against Finn because it lets you punish him for mindlessly charging grounded attacks

Shaggy still probably loses the matchup overall because his range is that oppressive, but like most Finn players only fish for grounded attacks

So it makes them way more manageable

[merry kiln]

I’m on a vacation and I just went to asia but it feels like everyone I’m going against now just started playing the game 😭

it doesn’t feel fun at all

[frozen geyser]

Oof

[merry kiln]

I’m like 50-0 with shaggy and half of them just quit after the first stock

[frozen geyser]

Depending on the time of day, I’ll either be playing against scrubs or end up playing like 7 twitch streamers in a row

[merry kiln]

in eu I couldn’t get a break

everyone I went against was someone I knew

including a lot of na players too

[frozen geyser]

NA is the same

But I don’t know everyone

[merry kiln]

are you west or east?

[frozen geyser]

East

[merry kiln]

chances are we played before lol

I’ve played against nearly every good east player in normal queue

[frozen geyser]

I haven’t been playing Shaggy as often

Been experimenting with other characters

Currently, I’ve been playing a lot of IG and Stripe

[merry kiln]

same but I already play like 6 different characters

sticking to a character is just sooo boring to me

[frozen geyser]

I uhh went on a 26 game streak when IG was added back

[merry kiln]

was it fun 😭

[frozen geyser]

And people in the IG channel were calling him bad lmao

[deft viper]

sry to ask but what was u tilt again?

[frozen geyser]

Grounded up attack

[deft viper]

thanks

[frozen geyser]

I’m using Smash terminology because that’s what I’m used to

[deft viper]

ohh alright

i come from DBFZ.. so yea lol

that s why i am confused

[merry kiln]

I had no idea that was bc of smash

thought everyone just knew something I don’t

[deft viper]

same for me

any videos or other showcases for shaggy's combos?

[merry kiln]

#clips message 😭

[deft viper]

dam daniel

[merry kiln]

not really but fatpac usually shares clips on twitter

[frozen geyser]

I I’ve been playing competitive for about 11 years or so at this point

[deft viper]

i am trying to learn the one of hogie land but i dont understand when u should do the ground up dodge cancel and when not

[frozen geyser]

Which one?

[merry kiln]

I played smash for like a week and never again

[deft viper]

thishttps://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009540458868899951/1251943818207428719/c857b0e7-2181-4b6d-b61e-6301fe358e86.mov?ex=6671bc8a&is=66706b0a&hm=26e1703d28f678c2a58741be5443aba26fd2f64a93a6556a838a8046401cb1ef&

[merry kiln]

multiversus my one and only 💔

might not even be playing for much longer bc it’s really not fun anymore

[merry kiln]

that’s not true

[frozen geyser]

You need to dodge cancel utilt at higher percents

And the combo doesn’t work at zero

[deft viper]

oh ok

so i cant use it as a starting combo

[frozen geyser]

If someone is in burnout, then it’ll work at any point

[frozen geyser]

No, nothing combos out of stomp at low percents

[deft viper]

rip

[frozen geyser]

Jab 1,2 stomp is a mid percent combo

[deft viper]

i should use it when the enemy is at 40-50 so^

[frozen geyser]

Somewhere around there depending on character weight. And you’ll always want to dodge cancel utilt

[deft viper]

damn it s bit more complicated than i thought lol

[frozen geyser]

Most people will instinctively DI away, so you’ll likely need to dodge jump up b as well

[merry kiln]

stomp dodge up tilt is not true, I thought it was but it never works

[frozen geyser]

Oh really?

I thought it did work at mid percents

[deft viper]

oh

[frozen geyser]

Is stomp just useless?

Or does jab 1,2 stomp dodge cancel dair still work?

[merry kiln]

no

you can always bait for the clap

it always works for me

especially offstage

[frozen geyser]

You mean dtilt 1,2 at ledge?

[merry kiln]

yeah

but it also works on stage

huge hitbox

and you can delay it for so long

[frozen geyser]

I wish dtilt 2 had the slow effect

Idk why it was removed

[deft viper]

same

[deft viper]

vietnam flashbacks of the infinite stomp combo

truly great times

[merry kiln]

also dash after stomp is true until like 100

and grounded side special after dash or stomp at the ledge always catches them off guard

[deft viper]

i will never understand why nerfed neutral air though

to fix his spamming they removed his combos which didnt involve the spam 🔥

[merry kiln]

shaggy needs a lot of nerfs and a lot of buffs

start by killing his damage and knockback

replace it with the best combo potential

[frozen geyser]

They originally did it to stop the jab 1,2 nair loops

But then they changed jabs across the board and the nair nerf because redundant

On top of the fact that nair is borderline negative on hit at low percents now

[deft viper]

yea like sometimes it hits but does nothing

[deft viper]

agree since he can kill from very low percentages

but has so little combos

[frozen geyser]

Honestly, I’m totally down for that. Turn him into a different flavor of Harley

[deft viper]

for how much i like his killing streaks in games if not controlled enough, more combos would be fun

[merry kiln]

I already have so much strings that work with current shaggy but imagine a shaggy that can actually combo like he was meant to

in the beta I used to do everything offstage bc he was so crazy

[deft viper]

imagine if they reworked the super saiyan and instead of damage he gets more speed

[merry kiln]

nair into sair into nair

always killed at zero

[deft viper]

i always used the n air to combo everything

on stage

[merry kiln]

pre every move ever whiff beta shaggy was the best character ever

[deft viper]

yea

[polar canyon]

Hey shaggy players, im sure you guys will know this one.

How does one reflect a projectile as shaggy?

i think one can do it as just the normal character but im not sure

[glad marten]

A perk that lets you reflect projectiles on parry

Otherwise, not possible

[dusk geyser]

iirc all you can do is parry it without the perk. So no reflection.

It doesn't seem worth parrying a projectile though without perk. Better to just dodge

[dusk geyser]

garnet has shaggy's old jab dodge loop lol

that is so funny

[dusk geyser]

#off-topic message

[merry kiln]

how many attacks dodged do you have :3

tk has like 90k lol

[dusk geyser]

#off-topic message only 23k : )

[merry kiln]

:o

that’s still a lot

[glad marten]

TK sucks at the game ong

[merry kiln]

pretty high

can you take your rage bait business elsewhere

[glad marten]

Opposite of rage bait

Happy not bait

[merry kiln]

tk came up with nearly every string every shaggy uses rn AND in the beta

what’s your point

[glad marten]

No tf he didn't 💀

He just took other peoples combos and claimed credit

[merry kiln]

you’re not any better if you’re not gonna site your claim

literally no reason to lie about coming up with strings

[glad marten]

Minor spelling m istake

[dusk geyser]

Thanks! I still find myself abusing the old dodge movement and getting punished because of it

[merry kiln]

I’m starting to figure out a way to play offstage the way I did in the beta

obviously not the same but all you need is one sair offstage and they’re dead at like 20 😭

[cursive field]

Tk is the campiest shaggy in the game it’s unbelievable, even in beta bro was camping fishing for jab stomp loops or down airs truly unfun to play against

[glad marten]

Curse of being the best Shaggy

[cursive field]

I use to be top shaggy in beta, I abused stomp cancel movement and was aggressive asl

Now he jus feels like a meme character I pull out to kill people at 40😂😂

[merry kiln]

why does everyone just not like TK 😔

[dusk geyser]

In the case of camping and jab fishes. It feels like this game speed promotes passive play. I'm just waiting for my opponent to mess up 9/10 matches

I've also been playing around with 5%, snowball, and pugilist. It's so funny knocking out around 60%

[pallid tinsel]

I’m whooping ass with shaggy

[pallid tinsel]

I just beat a guy 5 times in a row

[glad marten]

NA player (bad!!!)

[dusk geyser]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ihEFHf01I8lKibPkAEavEaqZyU-VV9MGeKGZ-PmjeQM/edit?gid=736130214#gid=736130214

Looks like Shaggy is 2nd fastest in game. Batman at 1

shares weight with Joker, Banana, WW, Reindog

[pallid tinsel]

The sandwich man perk is so hood

Good

[glad marten]

It's beyond good

It's downright broken

What was PFG cooking ⁉️

[pallid tinsel]

It’s OP when you can land your charged attacks

[glad marten]

Jab 2 combos into up b

[pallid tinsel]

You can also down special

It creates an earthquake that’s lasts just long enough to land no matter what

[haughty cobalt]

Hooray, nair is back!
Also shoutout to exactly two characters getting nerfed, namely Iron Giant and... Reindog???

[pallid tinsel]

They needed our boy

[pallid tinsel]

Reindog was a glitchy character

[haughty cobalt]

Oh lol I didn't realize his jab had glitches haha

[cursive field]

SHAGGY REVERT

WTHH

[glad marten]

They gutted his combos

He needs combos and a damage nerf

A big damage nerf

[cursive field]

they gave him combo back

the decrease nair loop back

u def havent seen patch notes

[glad marten]

It's actually not even that big of an issue actually because even if you get hit by it and take 80 damage you can actually DI out by the time you're at 80% actually

[merry kiln]

did they fix the nair?

[frozen geyser]

Idk I’m downloading the update now, but I don’t think the servers are live yet

[haughty cobalt]

According to patch notes, nair is back

[frozen geyser]

At least they haven’t said so in announcements

[haughty cobalt]

https://multiversus.com/en/news/1-04-patch-notes

[frozen geyser]

Oh nice it’s literally just removing IG ToD, reverting Shaggy nair, and fixing taunts

[dusk geyser]

Idk if old combo would work. Didn't they delay the jump window branch on jab 2

[frozen geyser]

Yeah

That’s why they reverted the nair change

[dusk geyser]

neat :>

[frozen geyser]

The nair nerf was overkill and made the move unusable

But now we can likely get combos like jab jab reverse utilt nair dair etc

[dusk geyser]

heck yeah

[frozen geyser]

We’re saved

[dusk geyser]

Glad they put in the thought to revert the changes and gave him back some combos.

Makes me wonder if there's a Shaggy prestige skin in the works

[cursive field]

shaggy was still crazy without combos and they didnt nerf his kill power

nice

what a stupid patch

[merry kiln]

less damage and knock back benefits us

[pallid tinsel]

They also made his reaction time faster

I like this update

[merry kiln]

I still want that

[frozen geyser]

If you actually think he was on the same level as WW, Joker, or prepatch Gizmo/Harley without his main combo extender, then you’re crazy

Even with combos, he’s still not on that level

[merry kiln]

he actually was, only for people who know how to use him right

[frozen geyser]

Idk sure he has the kill power, but he doesn’t have the neutral to back it up

His bad neutral is a huge hinderance imo

Not really an issue in 2v2, but it’s absolutely an issue in 1v1

[merry kiln]

like think of a shaggy that goes for the same thing every other shaggy goes for, the way people play finn or arya

then think of a shaggy that is just not the same

[frozen geyser]

Like yeah against mid and low level players, you can just blow them up

[frozen geyser]

Yeah see those are called bad players

[merry kiln]

the thing I like about shaggy is just that a good shaggy is unpredictable

something you can’t really find with any other character

[frozen geyser]

When you have an Arya that can consistently whiff punish with like 50 damage combos, can actually use movement to her advantage, and knows her kill setups outside of up special, then you know you’ve met a good player

[pallid tinsel]

Shaggy is still OP

You can get his power back by just using snowball effect

[merry kiln]

his power was never gone

[frozen geyser]

I mean, Shaggy absolutely farms at mid and low level play

[merry kiln]

and high

[frozen geyser]

But I think other characters can be way more unpredictable with better neutral games and comparable combo damage and kill confirms

I’m not saying Shaggy is bad btw

[merry kiln]

I’ve ran through a lot of better players before I had the chance to figure out how to use him uniquely for myself

should say something about the character

[frozen geyser]

Idk I feel like a lot of characters can be played in a variety of ways, especially the top tiers

It’s just that most people don’t because it’s easier to autopilot generally strong options

[pallid tinsel]

The fact that they didn’t touch wonder woman is crazy

[frozen geyser]

I think they said they were next balance patch

This was more of a hotfix

[merry kiln]

to me it’s a lot better to play against someone that doesn’t do the same thing everyone else does

[frozen geyser]

I mean, with Shaggy you’re forced to play differently because playing linearly means your neutral game is ass and you’re easily gonna get read

But like imagine if a character like Joker did the same instead of just fishing for jab and air side special

[merry kiln]

an awful shaggy can win every game comfortably until they meet a decent player

nearly the same as wonder woman

by awful I don’t mean one that spams the side kick

[frozen geyser]

I mean, that’s because Shaggy is generally easier to play than a lot of the more technical characters

[merry kiln]

I mean someone that knows enough about the game

[frozen geyser]

Like the base skill level to be good with Shaggy is a lot lower

The base skill level needed to be good with a character like T&J is a lot higher

[merry kiln]

it’s the beginner character so they can’t really do much

[frozen geyser]

I know

He’s designed that way on purpose

[merry kiln]

the way I see it I don’t think they’re going to nerf his damage or knock back at all like ever

[frozen geyser]

They won’t

Shaggy is fine as is imo

[merry kiln]

which is weird but also fine with me

[frozen geyser]

But they should do something to buff One Last Zoinks

Because that perk is pretty useless

[merry kiln]

80 damage would make a lot of people use it again

[frozen geyser]

Yeah

I was gonna say just lower the damage threshold

100 is too high because pretty much everyone can consistently kill before then

[merry kiln]

mhm

[frozen geyser]

I wouldn’t even be opposed to it being instead like you get a free rage every 80 damage you take or something

So you could get it multiple times in the same stock potentially

Even though it would be unlikely

[merry kiln]

regardless of what they do I think I’m sticking with 5%

[frozen geyser]

Yeah I mean it’d moreso be a perk for worse players who can’t consistently run away long enough to get rage

Like it is now

[merry kiln]

I have the sandwich perk on one of the custom ones until they decide to finally nerf it

[frozen geyser]

Yeah, they’re definitely gonna

Honestly just adding another half second to the charge time would be fine

[merry kiln]

and since everyone’s already used to it being that fast I don’t think anyone’s going to be using it at all after the nerf

[frozen geyser]

Because currently, I’ve been able to get hit while holding sandwich, charge rage in disadvantage, and then kill with neutral special before they can even punish me for charging rage

I still will depending on matchup

Having easier access to rage is really good for certain matchups

Worth more than killing like 10% earlier

[merry kiln]

in 2v2s yeah

[frozen geyser]

Even in 1v1

[merry kiln]

but in 1v1s the 5% perk practically cuts the games in half

[frozen geyser]

Like against Finn

[pallid tinsel]

I just beat a Batman 4 times in a row

Lil buddy wouldn’t give up

[merry kiln]

I struggle a lot against batman

[pallid tinsel]

When he goes for the grappling hook just let it hit you, when it does kick him , the kick out does the hook

[frozen geyser]

I struggled a lot more in the beta

[frozen geyser]

You can parry on reaction for an even bigger punish

[pallid tinsel]

W

[merry kiln]

side kick beats grapple

I don’t really lose as much as it feels like the games are much closer than they should be

[frozen geyser]

It would be nice to know what our career win rate was and by what character

[merry kiln]

you can use the tracker

[frozen geyser]

It’s not accurate

Only has beta stats

[merry kiln]

no, wins and win rates have been changing

[frozen geyser]

Apparently the only accurately tracker stats are damage dealt and attacks dodged from what I’ve heard

[merry kiln]

wins are right

the new characters count as finn I think

[frozen geyser]

Are they counting retrospectively?

[frozen geyser]

They don’t have any of the new characters like Joker, BG, and Jason

They do on the insights page

Not on profiles tho

[merry kiln]

yeah you can also see your win rate with certain characters if you keep loading more matches

[merry kiln]

they still count as finn

[frozen geyser]

Rip Finn mains wanting to see their stats I guess

[merry kiln]

#clips message ^

[frozen geyser]

I hate discord mobile

It won’t let me view the spot in clips

[merry kiln]

click on it a couple of times

[frozen geyser]

Ok I see it now

[merry kiln]

they did fix the nair

it can combo into up special below like 40 damage

[frozen geyser]

Are the servers up?

[dusk geyser]

combos up special when you're above the enemy or around the same height?

I remember up special used to have a hitbox right under his feet

[merry kiln]

omg nair is so good now

I genuinely forgot how essential it was

[merry kiln]

same height ish

[dusk geyser]

neat :>

[frozen geyser]

Tracker.gg isn’t tracking everything properly I don’t think

Because I went on a 26 game win streak with IG before dropping a game and it’s only showing me having played 24 games total

And it won’t load any IG matches I played in the beta either

[glad marten]

It doesn't track matches with specific characters

I don't think it tracks Jason

[frozen geyser]

It apparently tracks the new characters as Finn according to Jenette

Yeah, that’s definitely not the case

I have exactly 2 matches as Finn from when he was free

[merry kiln]

I think jab jab reverse up tilt nair charged up special is a true zero to death

[frozen geyser]

And it’s only showing 77 games in total that I’ve played for 1v1 which is definitely false

[merry kiln]

I'll try to record it in a second but shadowplay isn't working properly for me

[pallid tinsel]

I’m on an 8 game win streak with shaggy rn

[haughty cobalt]

Charged up special?

oh rage

[pallid tinsel]

9

Iron giant

That’s 10

I lost

[merry kiln]

remember to stay humble 😌

[glad marten]

Remember to always teabag after a cheesy win that you didn't earn 😌

[orchid wave]

Does the Nair reversion do literally anything now

Like we still can’t jab Nair right

[frozen geyser]

It lets nair actually combo

[orchid wave]

True actually

Utilt Nair into something maybe?

[frozen geyser]

Basically yeah

[orchid wave]

Wonder if Dtilt leads into it

I’ll test when I get home

[merry kiln]

it's a good approach option and good after reverse up tilt

[frozen geyser]

Dude what is happening

I keep getting randomly disconnected from the server

Not even in matches. Just in the menus

[merry kiln]

that happened to me once

[dusk geyser]

tbagging is free but toasts now cost gleamium

[frozen geyser]

Dude this game is dropping my inputs

[merry kiln]

currently on a 50 game win streak

[frozen geyser]

Nice

Well, I lost power

The game just didn’t want me to play today

[merry kiln]

felt

[deft viper]

sad

i cant wait for some saucy combos with this patch

[merry kiln]

not much combo potential but there are two apparent zero to deaths

[pallid tinsel]

Back to a 4 match win streak

5

[glad marten]

Thankfully, you're not missing much

[pallid tinsel]

6

[dusk geyser]

keep it up brother

crush them under your shaggy boots

[merry kiln]

I better wake up to at least 7 more zero to deaths

[pallid tinsel]

I lost to a Tom and Jerry who was cheating

[tardy summit]

how exactly?

[glad marten]

It's tom and jerry

How is he not cheating?

[pallid tinsel]

Bro, he fired 60 tennis balls at once that did 60 damage each

[tardy summit]

Jesus Christ

[glad marten]

Can you back this up with a clip?

[merry kiln]

I can confirm, I was the tennis balls

[dusk geyser]

I can confirm, balls

[merry kiln]

tk is telling tony to nerf shaggy 🪦

[dusk geyser]

can we hate him now?

mans fell off 😔

[tardy summit]

who’s tk again?

[glad marten]

Tamunokuro

[dusk geyser]

Tantrumokuro

[tardy summit]

Yea I have zero clue who that is