🌱│gardening

[restive otter]

No, you need to replace the last square with an apple tree and process the apples as preserves..

[supple stone]

Later on even regular seeds give starred produce all the time

[restive otter]

Apple trees give you 137.6 gold per day per tile if you process them as preserve

Batterfly beans give you 294.58 gold per day per tile when processed as seeds

[supple stone]

Sorry, but this is incorrect. Apples aren't that profitable compared to beans and bok choy

[restive otter]

Bokchoy gives you 28.67 gold per day per tile when processed as seeds

[supple stone]

Uh, not at all

88 gold per day from memory

That 88 is with harvest boost though

[restive otter]

It's all with harvest boost.

[supple stone]

Not at my PC, but I believe starred bok choy seeds sell for 22g each and you get 4 per seed maker transaction.
It gives 3 bok choy every 3 days with harvest boost

That means 88g per growth tick per tile

[restive otter]

But I see my mistake now. I forgot to multiply the Batterfly Beans by 4 again for the average

[loud skiff]

that's quite a bit (i'm very new, but grow beans a lot). so that's just selling them as seeds? or do you need to further process them? I haven't unlocked jars yet

[restive otter]

So the average of 1 batterfly bean + 5 bockchoy comes down to 146.85 gold per day per tile after processing.

[restive otter]

That's selling them as seeds

[supple stone]

Also, pretty sure the Beans is not as high at 300g per tile per tick. Think it's a bit over 100

[restive otter]

But processing takes ages, so you need a lot of seed collectors...

[supple stone]

Apples work out at 60ish gold per tile per tick from memory

[loud skiff]

So is bok choy still best for $? Just selling bok choy seeds?

[restive otter]

That's based on the growth ticks for the garden.. I didn't include processing time.

[supple stone]

If you can process them all, seeding beans is best by a good margin

[loud skiff]

thanks. i can make seeds, but can't jar or do anything else (other than garden, make worms/fert, cook) with them.

[restive otter]

Yeah, the beans multiply by 4 in value when processing them as seeds.. it's ridiculous.. Also great yields

[supple stone]

So are my numbers. I have a spreadsheet with all the numbers haha
Just not at my PC to check it rn

[restive otter]

Me too.. With formulas and everything xD

[loud skiff]

What about spicy peppers? They are expensive seeds to buy at store. Do they just not have as good of a profit?

[supple stone]

As in, have you not unlocked preserves yet? Or just not unlocked canned beans recipe?

[loud skiff]

not unlocked preserves or canning

I'm just around 6-7 gardening, just started last week

[supple stone]

Then beans are almost certainly not best for you. They take a long time to process, and if you can't process them all other crops will be superior.
I would say stick to bok choy

[restive otter]

No Peppers is only like a 32% increase in value as seeds and 50% increase in value as preserves. Batterfly beans have a 297% incrrease in value.

[supple stone]

Bok choy is good even for selling outright afterall beans are most definitely not

[restive otter]

When processed as seeds

This is all in growth ticks, excluding processing time..

Value is after processing, though..

[supple stone]

It is a shame spicy peppers aren't worth a bit more tbh, I like them. And useful for Soon Tofu

These numbers seem a bit off to me...

Is this your own spreadsheet?

[restive otter]

I tend to optimize my garden for whatever meal of preference I like to cook (usually best amount of focus for amount of effort and ingredients) and then optimise the rest for profit.

O, I forgot to mention, that I subtracted the produce needed to re-seed the crops to maintain the garden 😉

You can't count the seeds you need to seed your garden as profit

[supple stone]

I guessed, but that still shouldn't make such a big difference. For 4 Bok Choy plants, you get 12 Bok Choy per 3 days. You subtract 1 from that to make 4 seeds. 11 Bok Choy profit. Each one gives 88g if I remember my seed price correctly for 880g. 220g per plant every 3 days, so 73g per growth tick per tile

28.67 Just seems way off, and I'm not sure about the maths

[restive otter]

No 88 in total for 4 seeds of bok choy 😉

[restive otter]

Star quality

[supple stone]

Yeah, then my maths is right

[restive otter]

so 22 gold per seed

[loud skiff]

is that still right for 300g for beans? I thought you were saying that math was wrong?

[supple stone]

So I multiplied 88 by 10,not 11. So it should be more than 73g per tick per tile actually

[restive otter]

Everything is calculated over 180 days (growth ticks), because that is the only intersection at which all crops overlap when reseeding.

[supple stone]

I can't read this well on my phone, sorry. Is the first column saying that the yield per crop is 1?

[restive otter]

Bok choy takes 5 days to grow

[supple stone]

No, it takes 3 days for 3 crops with harvest boost

I have farmed a lot of bok choy, it is definitely not 5 days

I think potatoes are 5 days though

No chance you got the 2 mixed up?

[restive otter]

Sorry, misread my own table

[supple stone]

If your spreadsheet is a Google doc, you could DM me a link if you wanted to and I'd be happy to read through it when back at my PC later to try and help proofread it

[restive otter]

I calculated everything in 180-days cycles, because the blue berries take 18 days for a full cycle, apple trees 30, batterfly beans 12, peppers 15, tomatoes 10, and the rest is either 6, 5, 4, or 3 days and the first number of growth ticks divisable by all of those numbers is 180. And then I reduce it back to single days (and single tiles for multi-tile crops), to compare.

They way I calculated it is, you get 3 bok choy per 3 days, so 180 per 180 days..
You need 60 seeds to grow 180 days of bok choy (180/3=60), which takes 15 bock choy to generate the 60 seeds (154=60).
That leaves you with 165 bok choy for profit (180-15=165).
165 bok choy make 660 bok choy seeds (1654=660), of 22 gold each at star quality, which is (660*22=)14520 gold in 180 days.
14520/180=80.67 gold per tile per day

So, you're right.. And I found the mistake in my sheet xD

This is more like it.

Apparently in editing the source sheets I messed up the HLOOKUP for the net 180-day yield value in gold

Still think something is wrong though...

[supple stone]

Was about to ask if you had divided by 4 for the 2x2s and 9 for the apple, guess you have now

[restive otter]

There it is. This is correct.

[supple stone]

Pumpkin seems lower than I was expecting mind you (though finding correct growth numbers online is difficult)

[restive otter]

Seeds was also not referencing the right source column.. Was total yield in stead of yield per tile.

This feels a lot more logical as well.. Thought the beans were a bit ridiculous xD

Don't know about the pumpkins, though.. I don't have them, yet and I used what I could find online and thought was the most accurate, though..

All numbers are based on what I could find for Star-Quality and Harvest-boosted yields.

Thanks for making me redo my calculations!

[supple stone]

Yeah, they did haha. As did the apples to me actually.
Glad you worked out what the issue was!
I'll tag you when back at my PC and able to check the Pumpkin numbers, but I got them from the Garden Planner, and the numbers seemed more likely than what I found elsewhere.
I have grown pumpkins but I kept forgetting to count the number of days they needed to grow. The 15 days I think the planner says seemed correct to me though, and each harvest did give 3 pumpkins with harvest boost

[restive otter]

Yeah I cross-checked my numbers with Garden Planner and the Wiki

[supple stone]

The 15 days might not be exactly right, I may be misremembering, and I can't remember the number of harvests you get at all rn

[restive otter]

And they both assume the same thing.. Though the Garden Planner says the total yield should be 11, where in reality (if the mechanics hold up) it should be 12

[supple stone]

Yeah, the wiki seemed way off when I was doing my sheet sadly. Hope it's better now

[supple stone]

By default the garden planner uses a crop to convert into a seed for replanting

[restive otter]

Ah right..

[supple stone]

So it takes that off the final yield

[restive otter]

forgot about that

Then it's okay.. 12 pumpkins in 15 days, 132 per star-quality pumpkin, which turns into 4 seeds of 37 gold each at star-quality (148 total), or 1 canned pumpkin of 151 gold at star-quality.

[restive otter]

So, canned pumpkin is slightly more profitable than seeds, but also only takes less then a 3rd of the processing time (31.5 minutes, compared to 100 minutes for seeds).
But given that you only need 1 pumpkin to generate seeds for 4 pumpkin plants, let's multiply everything by 4.
12×4=48 pumpkins, -1 for the seeds, leaves 47 net pumpkins, converted into canned pumpkin, would get you (47×151=)7097 gold, over 16 tiles (4 pumpkin plant of 4 tiles each) and 15 days.
So 7097/16=443.5625 gold per tile, for a whole plant cycle of the pumpkin
443.5625/15= 29.57 (rounded to 2 decimal points) gold per tile per growth tick

So, yeah, pumpkins aren't really worth it for the money.. But they are great to cook with.. And you need a 100 star-quality ones for the achievement 😛

Also, until lvl25/30 gardening (star-quality seeds/non-star-quality seeds), they have the added benefit of providing a quality boost to the neighbouring crops.. but so does cotton and spicy pepper.

[supple stone]

They're not bad for cooking with, but the recipes tend to need some rarer ingredients as well, which makes these recipes a bit annoying for using as focus food imo

Plus pumpkin yield is so low that you have less than 1 pumpkin per in game day per crop, meaning you can't even make 1 meal a day

[restive otter]

If you plant only 1, that is..

[supple stone]

Yeah, but if you're going to have beans in your garden for money anyway, makes Soon Tofu a lot easier

Or you can use Beans for burgers in a cooking party for decent profit too

[neat vortex]

Beans are the only cooking recipe that makes more gold for means that seeding them would, lol

every time I go to a focus food party that uses beans, I thank the bean donor

[supple stone]

That's likely more down to vinegar rather than the beans

[neat vortex]

contributing 405ish gold per round is no joke

[neat vortex]

yeah 3 vinegar per recipe is pretty wild

[restive otter]

Pumpkin stew needs:
1 Any Red Meat
1 Spice Sprouts
1 Rockhopper Pumpkin
1 Onion
1 Heat Root

And gives 500 focus, or even 750 focus at star-quality

[supple stone]

Vinegar is 200g right? And burgers need 3?

[restive otter]

yeah vinegar is 200g a piece to buy

[neat vortex]

yyyyup. but only contributes 100g of that 200 in the dish sell value formula, of course

[supple stone]

Yeah, I don't like having to bother with Heat Root personally, but it's definitely a good recipe

[supple stone]

Ahh, good point

[restive otter]

Bean Burgers:

1 Milk
2 Tomato
2 Onion
3 Batterfly Beans
3 Vinegar
1 Wild Garlic
1 Spice Sprouts
1 Egg
1 Cooking Oil
1 Wheat

[neat vortex]

the overall value improvement of bean burgers for most of the ingredients just isn't too impressive, compared to other for-profit recipes, but it's fast and uses accessible/buyable ingredients (no fruit or rare fish), so it's popular for parties currently. The star rate struggles because of the high weight of unstarred ingredients, though

[restive otter]

normal/star-Q
+800 focus / +1200 focus
Sells for:
221 / 331 Gold

[neat vortex]

lol any time you see over 1,000 focus on a dish, you gotta round that down to 1,000; the extra focus just goes to waste, no? (at least until the day they maybe someday allow us further focus bar upgrades)

[restive otter]

I only cook for the focus.. For money it's always a drain xD

[neat vortex]

Solo, yes, absolutely

Except honey-baked muujin, for some reason... unless they fixed that this patch

[restive otter]

Lol, I didn't know that, yet.. Really makes me think why they put dishes in it that give you 1100 focus at base level xD

[restive otter]

Ah right, in groups it gives everyone the 3 dishes... That's a lot more interesting..

[neat vortex]

LBF is a recipe you cook only to prove you can (to yourself; there's no accomplishment associated with it lol) or perhaps out of a degree of love of pain

minimum 2 minutes per round even in a full party, due to timed flips

A friend used to host a 20x LBF party (because she tried to make it 30 and everyone about lost their marbles by the end of the hour) and I used to fold my laundry while waiting for the next round to start XD

... my phone gave me a spelling suggestion for that typo (food my laundry) and it suggested "feed"....

[neat vortex]

Certainly makes the math interesting :)

[supple stone]

What's LBF?

[cunning kettle]

if anyone is looking for a profitable layout!

[supple stone]

It could definitely be worse, but not sure I'd label it as a profitable layout.
Profitable layouts tend to give over twice the amount per growth tick, the most profitable over 3 times (but isn't fully weed/water proof.
Why so many pumpkins?

I do notice you aren't processing the crops on the planner, and have it set to a low gardening level, which does make it appear worse than it could be though

[restive otter]

If you're not processing, bok choy is the way to go..

Same settings:

[supple stone]

I'm also partial to tomatoes due to the reharvesting tbh. But that's a case of convenience over profit.
Replanting every 3 days for bok choy can be annoying

It's why beans are so crazy. Low effort, don't clog seeders and most profitable? It honestly is a bit crazy.
Oh, and good for both profit and focus foods

Whilst also having harvest boost, the best buff for profit layouts

[restive otter]

My current setup

[waxen remnant]

Ooh, what are y'all using to make these layouts?

[manic meteor]

https://palia-garden-planner.vercel.app/?layout=v0.2_DIM-111-111-111_CROPS-PCOTOCrOBkP-TPTRCRCbBkCb-OCPCrOTPBkO-BkBBCbBBPSpSp-AAAAAAAAA-BBBkBBCbSpSpP-OSpSpCTWCoCbC-BkTBkCPCOTO-SpSpOWTCCCbCo

[waxen remnant]

Thank you!

[restive otter]

https://palia-garden-planner.vercel.app/?layout=v0.4_D-111-111-111_CR-Bt.QBt.QR.QBt.QBt.QR.QP.QT.QP.Q-T.QP.QT.QP.QBt.QBt.QT.QBt.QBt.Q-P.QT.QR.QR.QBt.QBt.QP.QBt.QBt.Q-T.QBt.QBt.QP.QBt.QBt.QT.QP.QT.Q-A.QA.QA.QA.QA.QA.QA.QA.QA.Q-T.QP.QT.QBt.QBt.QP.QBt.QBt.QT.Q-Bt.QBt.QP.QBt.QBt.QR.QR.QT.QP.Q-Bt.QBt.QT.QBt.QBt.QP.QT.QP.QT.Q-P.QT.QP.QR.QBt.QBt.QR.QBt.QBt.Q_D180L15Cr0.AP-BtS12-RS-TP2-PS3

[supple stone]

Wasn't expecting the quality boost fert, what gardening level are you?

[restive otter]

15

I just started playing a couple of weeks ago 😅

But I like optimising things..

[cunning kettle]

tbf I'm still just figuring and testing layout, I just saw the high number and this was the highest amount I got so far, so I thought I will stick to this for now

[supple stone]

With star seeds, you probably have something like 75-80% chance of star crops anyway haha, but appreciate ensuring it heh

[cunning kettle]

I'm still new to the planner

[supple stone]

I enjoy testing and creating layouts, so I get you ^^
And we all start somewhere, dw

[supple stone]

I do too haha. All good fun 🙂

I've been working on a layout with an apple tree for lures, as many beans as possible and all water/weed proof with as little fert as possible. So far at like 10 fertiliser and 6 Beans

[cunning kettle]

I didn't even realize there was a way of setting the level until a person above mentioned they used the same 'settings'

[restive otter]

Here's an overview of what crops make you per tile subtracting seeds you need to replant

On a 180-day setting as used in your planner 😉

Also gold per tile per day for the most profitable method

Wheat and Rice have no 'preserve' in game

And the 'preserve' for Cotton is Fabric

[supple stone]

There's a lot of neat settings there
In the settings screen, the General allows you to set level and change the profit it displays in either per irl hour or per growth tick (most of us in this channel prefer the growth tick setting)
Ren is particularly keen on setting Days to 180 in that screen too
Then Crops screen under teh setting tab allows you to choose how to process each thing. You can't preserve some, seed some and sell others sadly, but it is still very useful!

And the planner was just updated to allow for saving your settings as a preset (probably using cookies I imagine), so you don't need to change them every time you open the planner for a new layout

Though, sadly, the ability to make a custom layout broke unfortunately

[restive otter]

Yeah, I noticed.. I thought, I was doing something weird, or my browser..

[supple stone]

Yeah, the first proper layout I made was a 2x4 Beans/Bok Choy thing, was rather profitable but either needed daily watering or water fert

[restive otter]

I started out with a 1x3 and later 2x3 layout using potatoes, tomatoes, cotton and rice with 100 water retain, quality boost for everything but the cotton

O and harvest boost for everything but the rice

[supple stone]

Before I really started trying to minmax, I just put a grid of tomatoes and made sure they had quality/harvest/water buffs (meant nothing else had all of them though)
But, I was still exploring the areas so was good to be able to not spend so much time tending the garden

And now I'm finding I want to have to tend it less again, but more because of potential long hunts/fishing sprees/whatever

[restive otter]

Something like this:
https://palia-garden-planner.vercel.app/?layout=v0.4_D-111-111-111_CR-CoPRRTCoCoPR-TCoPPRTTCoP-RTCoCoPRRTCo-NNNNNNNNN-NNNNNNNNN-NNNNNNNNN-NNNNNNNNN-NNNNNNNNN-NNNNNNNNN

[supple stone]

Yeah, cotton is actually rather nice at the start before falling off a bit hehe

[restive otter]

That was before I calculated profitability, and such..

But I tried to optimise the layout for buffs

I also hadn't found the garden planner, yet

[supple stone]

The garden planner is a great tool hehe

[restive otter]

So, I was doing it on a e-ink notebook xD

[supple stone]

Oh nice haha

'Penwielder is typing', is that name referencing 'The pen is mightier than the sword'?

[restive otter]

trying to remember all the buffs and using a 10mm grid background, with just the first letters of a crop, treating it like a sudoku xD

[supple stone]

(If it's not, maybe I don't need to know what sort of pen is being referenced ig)

[shy wyvern]

Does anyone know why we cant place star-quality preserves??? I have a whole pantry/storeroom built in preparation for when I got to this level, only to find out theyre not placeable?!

[supple stone]

This is the way!

[shy wyvern]

Hahaha it is!

[supple stone]

It would be cool to place them!!!
I think they're just not treated as a dish, which are placeable when starred.
You can however get an item that looks like a bunch of preserve jars on shelves I beleieve

(Unless it is possible to place them, I actually haven't tried because I...dither...when it comes to decorating haha)

[shy wyvern]

Ahhh okay. I have just encountered this last night as I retrieved my first star-quality kimchi and then sat staring at the screen as I realized my dreams of a homestead pantry had been dashed

[supple stone]

I reckon there will be creative ways to get the aesthetic you're hoping for, I just am not the person to suggest how #🏡│decor might be a place to try?

But good luck!

[celest ruin]

Processing preserves into worms and fertilisers and then sell the output is supposed to be more profitable than directly selling the jars. Is that still accurate?

[shy wyvern]

I shall, thank you!

[shy wyvern]

Oh thats interesting... im watching for the answer now that I have 2 preservers worth of canned goods lol

[supple stone]

If preserving the crop was the most profitable course of action in the first place (compared to seeding, I mean), then yes, definitely.
However, this only holds true when you have the spare processing capacity.
If worming the preserves would then cause you to be unable to process everything else before the next harvest, less likely to be the best course of action

[restive otter]

Yes, but that adds another hour of processing time per preserve, though...

[supple stone]

Do you understand what I mean?

[restive otter]

Yeah, (glow)worm farms are another 'crafter' and you're capped at 30 crafters on your plot.

[neat vortex]

lucky braised fish

[celest ruin]

I am not sure tbh 😅

[restive otter]

Also, the regular worm farm seems to be more profitable than the glow worm farm

[neat vortex]

Not by a dramatic enough amount to be worth the extra hour of crafter time, imo. If you've got slots free, there are better things to feed your worms. Pickled onions in a regular worm farm are the exception at +23g, and that mostly just makes them a reasonably cheap source of HB fertilizer from the garden (assuming you're already growing and pickling onions and need the fertilizer in quantity)

Check the fertilizer sheet linked in the pins for more info

[restive otter]

And most crops that are more profitable as seeds, than preserves, usually come out to the same value as the seeds, once you put the preserve through the worm farm

for example: Potatoes.
1 potato = 4 seeds which is 120G at star quality
1 potato = 1 pickled potatoes is 102G at star quality
1 pickled potatoes at star quality in the worm farm is 12 worms and 12 harvest boost fertilizer out = 120G
1 pickled potatoes at star quality in the glow worm farm is 1 glow worms and 12 harvest boost fertilizer out = 110G

[neat vortex]

oh and the PaliaTracker gold profit tool is also handy here

[supple stone]

Most of the time yes, it depends on the value of what's put in though. I know there are some cooked dishes that are better in a glow worm farm

Ben, I think there's been a lot of information just thrown at you, so it's ok if you don't quite get all of it haha
If there is anything you want us to elaborate on, just say

[celest ruin]

I believe I took the info from there too. That's why I have been processing jars and then sell the output

[restive otter]

Yeah, that all comes down to the formula..

the number of glow worms is depending on the rounded number of the item value in gold, divided by 50, with a minimum of 1

[supple stone]

For a long time I assumed it rounded down

[restive otter]

so if you're close to, but just under a multiple of 50 for the gold value of the item you put in, you get the best value out of the glow worm farm.

[celest ruin]

Everything?
I think I need to rework my question.
I am growing apples, cotton, lot of bok choy, potatoes and tomatoes.
How can I make the most of my crops?
I think it also depends on my layout. I can send a SS

[neat vortex]

cheap forageables and meat are also great in a glow worm farm since it's minimum 1 glow worm :D

[supple stone]

True Ren

[restive otter]

And the formula for regular worms has a much smaller diviser (I don't know it exactly), but is therefore much likelier to give a consistent increase in value.

anyhow.. I need to go have dinner.. Have fun all! And TTYL

[supple stone]

ok, so it does depend on your layout, but it also depends on how many crafter licenses you have

[neat vortex]

5g per reg worm vs 25g per glow worm, is all

[supple stone]

Enjoy!

[supple stone]

If you have the crafters to do so,
Preserve: Apples and Tomatoes
Seed: Bok Choy and Potatoes

Cotton, you might as well make into Fabric and save for recipes. No point having grown it otherwise (as it's fairly lackluster in terms of profit, and otherwise you'd buy the fabric from Tish)

[celest ruin]

I could max that out soon, so thats not a problem. I just want to set up a solid plan that I don't have to worry about moving forward

[neat vortex]

tbh if you are already level 10 gardening, I would consider swapping out the cotton for rice and see what that does for your numbers

if you need fabric, it is buyable, but the harvest boost buff is valuable and rice itself is a cash crop

[supple stone]

Now, IF you have enough crafters to process all of that without having lots of stuff left over before you harvest things the next day (this kinda depends on how much you play per day too, as it is difficult to process everything as it grows, but you don't get growth when not playing yet you still have your crafters working), THEN I would consider the glow worm farms/worm farms for additional profit

Missed the end of that sentence haha

[celest ruin]

So bok choy doesn't sell better when preserved?

[supple stone]

Nope, it's better seeded (though this does take longer)

If you're struggling to process everything in time, it's fine to preserve them until you get more crafters

Preserving still gives more profit than selling outright, by a good amount

[celest ruin]

I have 6 glow worm farms, one worm farm, 6 preserve jars and 4 seed makers as of now
I am also not sure about the "ideal" number of crafters

this is my layout. Sometimes I do corn instead of potatoes to have enough for parties

[supple stone]

I was typing saying I can't tell you what you need without knowing how many if ecah crop you have, but that's moot now.
What I was typing might still be useful to know though:

The garden planner has a great function for planning how many of each crafter you want though - put your layout into the planner and navigate to settings > crop settings.
Here you can select how you want to process things (or sell outright), and how many crafters you want to assign to it.
It says how long the crafting time would take, so you want to get them as close as possible. That's how I plan many of each crafter I would want

However, that now said, you basically want mostly seeders for bok choy.
However, we could improve this layout. Very little of the bok choy is getting harvest boost, and the apple tree doesn't get harvest boost or water retaining... Unless you're putting the harvest boost fert from the worm farms on everything (which would net you more profit)

(I mention harvest boost as its the best way to boost profit)

[celest ruin]

I understand
That's already very helpful, thank you
How can I improve my layout?
I always use the speedy fertiliser on the apple tree every day. Other than that I am often too lazy to put fertiliser on each soil

[supple stone]

So, you can spam fertiliser down so that there's 99 on the tile. It gets used automatically
I'd advise against speedy grow, it's a little bugged and doesn't work as intended from what I've heard.
That's why it was move out of the worm farms as an output and is only in the gardening guild shop

[celest ruin]

Oh I see. Didn't know that

[supple stone]

As for how to improve the layout, adding rice/wheat/corn so that at least all bok choy and the apple get harvest boost is where I'd start.
Where you have 3 potatoes in a line, put a tomato there so all 3 get water retain
You probably don't need the cotton, with the amount you generate with bok choy you can buy fabric from Tish if needed.
If you want the layout to be weed proof (not entirely necessary, but not hard to work in here) then you can replace some bok choy with onions or carrots

[celest ruin]

Thank you
I am trying to translate that into a somewhat easy layout

[supple stone]

I could help with designing a layout later but unfortunately just on an old phone rn which is struggling a bit haha
Alternatively, if you want a layout that has an apple tree and as many beans as I could fit in (better than bok choy if you are able to seed them all), while being fully water retaining and weed proof with only 10 fertiliser needed... I could share my layout. It's a compromise between profit, buffs on everything and having an apple tree.
(also, the fertiliser is only harvest boost or weed fertiliser, so can be left off without too much trouble if wanted

[celest ruin]

That would be awesome!! At least I would have a very solid layout to start with!
I assume that the beans can be swapped for corn/wheat/rice anytime? I like to have around 100 starred crops of each so I can spontaneously join parties

[supple stone]

Beans are a 2x2, so not very easily I'm afraid, and I have none of those crops in the layout as harvest boost is coming from beans, apples and blueberries

I mean, you CAN swap beans for them, they just wouldn't have both water retaining and weed proof.
Could probably work it out for the top beans though

https://palia-garden-planner.vercel.app/?layout=v0.4_D-111-111-111_CR-O.HBkTTBtBtPBtBt-PBk.WPAAAAAA-TBkO.HBtBtTBtBtP-O.HTBkBkPOBtBtB-AAATP.WTBTB-BkTO.HOPBkBBtBt-BtBtBTBkBtP.HOBt-BBk.WBBtTBtBtP.WBt-BBtBtBtBkTBtOP.H_D180GtL25Cr0.BkS4-TP2-OP2-PS3-BtS15-BP2-AP2

This is my layout, though half of it is ripped off from one of @floral talon layouts haha

[celest ruin]

I think that would definitely be an upgrade anyway because I have to water every single day as of now

Thank you very much

[supple stone]

Also, the middle 2 beans can be swapped out for spicy pepper/pumpkin pretty easily if needed, just need 4 harvest boost fertiliser on the immediately adjacent non-blueberry crops (again, if you want to retain harvest boost)

After I'm done cooking I could help design a more personal layout if wanted

[celest ruin]

I would definitely be interested in something more versatile that prevents me from running out of the "main" crops like wheat, corn, rice, etc
I mean, it doesn't have to be on one layout at once. Something to cycle through so to speak, would be fun
Your help is greatly appreciated

[uncut gull]

FYI it now costs two batterfly beans to make seeds

[floral talon]

they nerfed beans 😮 those monsters

[clear kindle]

would that change if beans are a top crop or does it not matter in the long run?

[floral talon]

well imma check it eventually sigh and update layouts accordingly sigh or maybe beans give more produce now?

[clear kindle]

looks like the bean seeds only take 1h25m now to complete and still says that it's 90g value

apple seeds on the other hand got bumped to 2h22m to produce.... have apple seeds always been 700g?

[frail escarp]

Oh dang, what issue are you facing with custom layouts? I'll look into it this weekend or ASAP if the fix is obvious

Oh nvm

I see it

Sign I need to quit my new job #13813 fr 🙂‍↕️

Fixed

[supple stone]

Honestly, it wasn't a big deal, but tyvm for the planner in general!

And for the fix, that was fast haha

[supple stone]

If the value of Bean seeds hasn't increased to compensate, 100% matters. Would make beans worse than apples I think, and apples are already mid

[clear kindle]

and yes it did change to needing 2 seeds per 1 seed

star beans are 135 each, not sure if that's the same price as before as i just clear out and sell not caring about individual price

[frail escarp]

Ah crap, okay I didn't notice today's patch affected gardening today

How many changes we talking? I'll put up a quick disclaimer on the planner for now and adjust them when I wake up tomorrow

[clear kindle]

i deal in apples primarily, but if the wiki hasn't had a recent update i might be able to say

[supple stone]

I'd be able to check prices later (have them all written down so will be easy to check when in game), but I imagine that beans and pumpkins would be the only ones affected.
Bit of a shame about beans nerf though, though considering they were a bit of a wonder crop I'm not surprised

I believe 135 for starred seeds is the same as before though, so a huge 50% need to profitability... unless the yield was changed too...

[clear kindle]

might have just been the beans. they decreased the time it takes to produce seeds and now require two for 1 seed. price seems to be the same 90 base, 135 star

[supple stone]

So, bok choy supremacy again I guess

[clear kindle]

i'm afking my plot so i'll be able to tell when my beans become ready for harvest (will be harvest boosted)

[supple stone]

I actually liked how beans were powerful but only if you invested heavily in the seeding infrastructure.

[clear kindle]

bok choy lost 10 minutes in seeder, went down from 1h22m to 1h12m still gives 4 seeds, basic is still 15g

[supple stone]

That's insane

So bok choy is even better haha

[clear kindle]

that' if the wiki is correct in what they have typed there. i know it's not the best when it comes to resources

[rapid osprey]

i have a spreadsheet of all the timing but now i gotta fix it lol

[neat vortex]

I'm irked that this wasn't in the patch notes

[rapid osprey]

me too

i invested pretty heavily into the seeding infrastructure lol

[neat vortex]

every other time they've made changes like this, it's been in patch notes

New CM is buried under work, probably

[clear kindle]

well, they changed the honey lure and all we got was that

like, seriously, what does that mean

[rapid osprey]

has the value of canned beans changed?

wiki isnt updated yet and i dont have any onhand

[severe flower]

What are these green numbers 🤔? This is new after update

[rapid osprey]

its the growth stage

so you know how far along it is before placing it down

[severe flower]

Oh oh thank you 😊

[clear kindle]

base canned beans is 41 gold

[rapid osprey]

do you know starred by chance

[clear kindle]

i don't as all of my preserve jars go to apples (which hasn't changed)

[rapid osprey]

valid

yeah idk either all my preserves mostly go to apples and blueberries and spare stuff

[clear kindle]

would assume that since the value didn't change for the canned beans basic that the star quality didn't change either

[rapid osprey]

this is the layout i use, that bottom portion is used for whatever basically. Its definitely not the most well optimized for gold but i cook a lot so i also want a ton of ingredients and this balances that for me

if i did my math right beans are now better in jars than seeds

at least for added value/hr

[neat vortex]

Hm. The base prices for beans went up as well. Previously was 23g/34g starred, and now the raw beans are 28g/42g starred

[rapid osprey]

ohhh okay

[raw crypt]

Sorry, just catching up. What has changed for gardening/crops with the patch?

[neat vortex]

We're still figuring it all out

Seems like processing times for some items were changed, and now beans are 2 beans per seed with a shorter processing time and a higher raw crop value

Which kind of makes sense; 50g per crafter slot hour was ABSOLUTELY absurd

so I can understand the nerf, there, I'm just annoyed that there wasn't any communication about it

I'm trying to do the math now, others probably also working on it

Canned beans are 41g base/presumably 61g starred, so unchanged

33m processing time, which I think is also unchanged

[clear kindle]

i think i get my beans come this next growth tic, so i'll let you guys know if those have changed from last patch (should still be 9 harvest boosted i would think)

[clear kindle]

it's the same time

but agreed, it would have been nice to have had a heads up that things were changed in gardening so that we could have played around with everything during down time instead of now rushing around as new players will be questioning, also beans became available, still 9 harvest boosted

[raw crypt]

Guess I'll stay with the regular windmill for now instead of transitioning to beans.

[neat vortex]

What's the regular windmill that isn't beans?

[raw crypt]

Oops, sorry! I meant the Bullseye cash crops layout.

[neat vortex]

Jeez. From +50g per crafter slot hour to +25g per crafter slot hour

better than the +19g per crafter slot hour for canned beans, yikes

Starred beans are, indeed, now below apples and carrots

so, middling. However, the 5g increase in the base price of beans does mean that bean burgers will be worth a bit more...?

and less painful to use beans for focus food because the opportunity cost is no longer absurd

68g/crop, so 204g per round (pfft) instead of 405 or whatever

still painful... but less painful

[supple stone]

Thing is, Beans are now as profitable as Onions and Apples...

[neat vortex]

Yeah, they're in the onion/carrot/apple range

[supple stone]

Really right down near the bottom of the pile

[neat vortex]

Nah, right in the middle, really

ACTUAL bottom of the pile is pumpkins (unless they changed the yield)

peppers and blueberries just above, and napa cabbage around in there

lol hey, who's got pumpkins in the ground? your contribution requested for Science

[supple stone]

True, Pumpkins do seem like an outlier though
tbh, I got my 100 pumpkins yesterday or the day before so took them out

But seriously, I had just made a new layout to use and now it doesn't seem worth it haha

[neat vortex]

Pumpkins were wildly out of keeping with everything else. Pumpkin preserves were worth less per tile per tick than selling raw onions

[supple stone]

And Pumpkin preserves is the best option =3

[neat vortex]

Yeah

Even the best option for COOKING with pumpkins fell in between blueberry jam and pickled peppers (so, not good)

[clear kindle]

so, bok choy reclaims it's top spot then?

[supple stone]

Easily

[neat vortex]

Seems so, gotta double check

[supple stone]

Unless pumpkins end up having way better yield or faster growth times
Or if there are other changes to anything else

[neat vortex]

Okay, bok choy seeds didn't change their processing time. Still 72 minutes.

[supple stone]

Wait a sec, if Beans raw price is more expensive, that means Burgers will be worth a little more now too, no?

[clear kindle]

in theory, yes. if the fact that taking away the jams from cakes lowered the cake value (though not by much) logic says that burgers should go up

...

seriously...

[neat vortex]

Yep

Bean burgers are now worth 227g/340g⭐ with the change to beans base price (up from 221/331g⭐)

[clear kindle]

it did go up... from a lovely 221g base, to 227 base

like that's not much of an increase. i know it adds up, but seriously

[neat vortex]

😂 I mean, the beans only went up by 5g each, so +15g to the total ingredient sell value, and the multiplier is 0.375, so

[supple stone]

Haha, didn't realise there was a multiplier haha

Or that it was so small

[neat vortex]

Keep in mind that that's for the per-dish sell price, and you get 3 dishes per ingredient set

[supple stone]

I did, it will certainly add up, but it's nothing crazy haha

[neat vortex]

But yes, overall, cooking is at most about 12.5% value increase over the unstarred sell values of the items used. Bought ingredients cost 2x what they contribute, and starred ingredients are worth 1.5x what they contribute (at least - processable crops are worth more, of course, in terms of opportunity cost)

If you star the dish, it's an additional +50% value on top of the multiplier

but this is why I don't recommend solo cooking as a way of making gold

[supple stone]

Yeah, I knew all of that, just hadn't thought about how it would work. Obviously there would need to be a multiplier, and fairly small, just hadn't bothered to look into it as I tend to play solo and the money just didn't seem there at all

[raw crypt]

This is loosely gardening-related, but what are some good focus food options to craft that also combine well with a high profit gardening set-up? Asking because I need focus food badly. >>

[supple stone]

I would have said Soon Tofu. This patch just nerfed Beans for profit though, so they're not particularly profitable compared to everything else anymore sadly.

Though tbh, the Bullseye layout using some Beans in the corners is likely to be decent profit-wise still, though you would need spicy peppers too so a quick substitution would want some harvest boost fertiliser to keep up

[floral talon]

if beans is changed i can test run it later to update aisencrown

[neat vortex]

Are you cooking solo or in groups?

[raw crypt]

Solo.

[supple stone]

I've started growing a pumpkin to try and test it out too
Hoping it's been buffed, but seeing as the changes were unannounced, I'm guessing it's just nerfs for Beans

I reckon the growth rate/yield of stuff hasn't been changed, but shall see!

Well, if I remember to keep an accurate count...

[neat vortex]

can you maybe put a counted amount of fertilizer on it?

[supple stone]

Is fertiliser only used on a growth tick where the crop grows?

[floral talon]

dependso nthe fertilsier

[supple stone]

Which is safest to use for counting growth ticks a crop gets then?

[floral talon]

harvest boost needs to stay on the whole time
water retain not foir the last growhttick but it stops consuming when the things cant grow anymore due to being harvbestable this is why multyharvests unwater themselfs and other stuff to when its harvestable or knapweeded
weedblocks is always consumes

[supple stone]

So water then probably

Not sure I have time to get a stack before teh growth tick...

[candid sedge]

Aww man, I just swapped to a bean-heavy farm like 3 days ago

[silent iron]

can request 40 (10 per request)

[supple stone]

I actually had a stack, didn't think I did

[candid sedge]

guess I'll focus on apples and bok choy now

[supple stone]

It's a huge nerf too 😦
I mean, kinda deserved considering it had almost everything going for it, but it didn't need to be quite so harsh imo

Best buff for profit gardens, regrows so great for not having to replant often, best profit, good for both focus food and profit food and seeder could run for 60h without stalling!

If it seems too good to be true...

[candid sedge]

yeah, guess I'd have have just appreciated some warning. But oh well

[supple stone]

Likewise...At the very least, them actually admitting it was happening in the patch notes

[candid sedge]

is that not the usual? only started Palia two weeks ago

well, it's a positive change at least

[supple stone]

It's...a balancing change, not sure about positive.
Pumpkins being buffed to be more in line with other crops would be a positive change. Unless something has changed, pumpkins are slow growing for a bad yield, have the worst buff (especially considering you can only get it once you're able to collect essence, so chances are you don't need quality up then at all) and also the worst crop profit wise.
Some ok focus foods can be made with pumpkins at least, but the best ones need some other rare ingredients too

[tranquil ginkgo]

Headed straight to this chat when I saw a thread on fb talking about beans nerf 👀👀

[floral talon]

if beans got nerfed i literly dont see any reason to bother with em

[tranquil ginkgo]

Right? I changed majority of my garden to them, only have buffs around them

[floral talon]

honestly think beans were balanced

almost underpwoered considering how muhc work and processing itme th ey are

[tranquil ginkgo]

Its not like they were a super quick profit unless you have a ton of seed makers and even then

Snap lol

[twilit fiber]

Yeah beans ain't in the update changes but now it takes 2 beans to make a seed
Otherwise canned beans are still a good food and * beans still sell for okay

[tranquil ginkgo]

The profit was in the seeds though so totally ruins that, how do we complain about it, makes the couple of new crops for the new area useless 🤣

[floral talon]

pumpkin needs its production at leas doubled if not tripeld to be interestign which is sad cuz pupmkins are such cool crops

[tranquil ginkgo]

They were cute, but disappointing 🤣

[floral talon]

so sad i mean cmon giant orannge orbs growign out of a plant what s not to love

[neat vortex]

They're about as good as apples, which isn't terrible, just not "whoah nelly" amazing like they were

And the seed time was reduced, so less risk for most players of running into a mass bean overrun 😂

and they DO still have a long maximum runtime

just... not 62 hours

Hm, yeah, about comparable to bok choy (a bit under 23h for a full hopper), but they will run through 32 beans in that time

beh

[lucid thorn]

i don't know where to put this but does anyone have extra pumpkins :0 i only need 3

[tranquil ginkgo]

Yeah my previous garden was 4 or 5 apple trees, then 4 bloobs, tomato and potatos alternating, crap for weeds but 🤷‍♀️

[mystic skiff]

Bean nerfed. 😭

Beans were great for if you didn't want to spend a lot of time tending but had a ton if off time to process.

What am I gonna do now.

[mystic skiff]

I always thought the pumpkin production was strangely low for long it took to grow them.

Couple that with a bottom tier plant buff, it feels like growing them is 100 just for the aesthetics.

[magic scarab]

literally only do beans so I don't have to think about my plot arrangements.

plus the occasional veggies for meals .. otherwise, idk how y'all keep multiple crops going at all times.

[mystic skiff]

If I'm playing palia a lot I actually don't mind having a multi crop setup, I've done every crop set up before. The replanting isn't so bad.
The most annoying part was storage and managing the processors from all the different crops.

But I've been so busy with dead by daylight's anniversary event, dead Frontier also had a July event and I'm doing a lot of meetings with clients for video editing. So the Bean setup was perfect for my situation.

Bok choy can make more money and faster, but the problem is you need to log in and manage the crafter more often. 😭

With the beans I can just log in every 2-3 hours if I'm not busy, just to refresh the tick or harvest them.

[magic scarab]

usually i'd feel bad for someone who can't play palia 24/7 BUUUUT it sounds like you've been busy with good things! 🥳 😂

[magic scarab]

I totally forgot about the bok.. might add that to my arsenal

[clear kindle]

it's rather easy when you only harvest two crops (apples and beans)

[magic scarab]

oh for sure, i'm thinking more the plots that have 6+ different seeds on 3x3 plot .. I just find it hard to remember the placement after the fact, and can't be bothered to keep track with pictures / reference. so it's entirely on me and my laziness 😂

[eternal ruin]

So as I'm hearing, beans got some tweaks? raw value up 5g, somewhat shortened seeding time, 2 beans > 1 seed... anything else?

[clear kindle]

seems about right

[eternal ruin]

Should be easy enough for me to plug in then.

Any other crops actually update?

[clear kindle]

doesn't look like it, compared to the wiki, but i didn't check every single one

[eternal ruin]

Alright, so going over math...

Raw farming values: bean's worth actually went up slightly. Still not amazing, but if you can't process it for some odd reason, it's not the worse crop (but not great).

Seeding: It basically got kicked down to join the rest of the crops. On the plus side though, the shortening on its time and the fact it now takes two seeds to make one means it's actually considerably faster to process, so for space efficiency it may actually still be a pretty solid choice.

jarring: Nerfed in a kinda stupid way: the canned bean values are not updated to account for the new price, or else my current beans are illegal glitched beans. That said, I usually use these for eating, not for selling, so that may not better. I couldn't check for focus changes cause I don't track that in my charts. ^^;

bean sammich: Technically it got nerfed because more beans > seeds > less beans to sammich, so overall net penalty. The added price of the new beans counters this slightly, but still a decrease.

It's still relatively viable for a away-from-farm sort of material, it's just now less blatant. I have to recheck math on my blueberries cause they have oddly high numbers that feel misleading for some reason. >_>

[frail escarp]

Beans now updated in the planner. Will keep the disclaimer on for a couple hours though in case I missed something

[eternal ruin]

...I feel like I'm missing something but somehow blueberry may have been an even bigger cash moo than beans ever were and I'm trying to figure out why I didn't notice this until now or what that hiccup is. >_>

Okay, it's not as crazy as I thought. It's not the cash moo I was worried about. Carry on!

[supple stone]

@restive otter After our discussion yesterday, figured you might want to know that Beans got nerfed in yesterday's patch.
2 Beans for 1 seed now, base starred Bean sell price up by 5g (but not factored into seed or preserve sell price, these are unchanged).
To compensate, seeding time was reduced to 1hr 25 mins
Figured you may want to update your spreadsheet.

[floral talon]

Has anyone harvested beans and know if the harvest amounts are changed

[supple stone]

Believe Sylva had some beans grown and said harvest amount was the same. I've not checked myself, but am growing a pumpkin to check if any difference there. Only had 4 growth ticks so far though.

[neat vortex]

I have, twice since the update with a fresh plant, no change

[floral talon]

Wel gues beans are dead now

[neat vortex]

They're in the onion-apple-carrot range now

but no longer special like they were, yeah

On the upside, it made cooking with beans a much less painful proposition

[supple stone]

Do wish it was made something like 3 Beans for 2 seeds instead of 2 for 1

[neat vortex]

Someone in another server raised an interesting point that canned beans -> worms might(?) be reasonable

[supple stone]

That is a good point

[neat vortex]

Then they'd process through a hopper even faster and be even more annoying to have to check regularly, I think

more crafter idle time

Right now they're about on par with bok choy that way

though at least they still stack to 50...

[supple stone]

True I guess, depends on if they still would have reduced the seed time

[neat vortex]

Hm, yeah

[supple stone]

Do enjoy the stack to 50 aspect haha

[neat vortex]

So, starred canned beans in a regular worm farm...
61/2 = 30.5 (half the value)
30.5/5 = 6.1 -> 6 worms (30g)
and also same math -> 6 HB fertilizer (30g)
....how is that more gold. Unless I'm applying the formula wrong.

Hm. 61g savory input per Arenvanya's spreadsheet yields 8 worms (or 1 glow worm) and 8 HB fertilizer. Let's go with that, but I'll test to be certain.

AH because the reg. worm amount/fertilizer amount is TWO PLUS half the value divided by 5

ahaaaa

See, I am always learning new things lol

Okay, so starred canned beans gain 19g/hr in a regular worm farm. Total of 80g per bean at the end of the canning + worming processes, which takes an hour and 33 minutes plus a transfer.

Versus 67.5g per bean after an hour and 25 minutes of seeding.

...that's a pretty close call.

Hm, will it jam...

NO, it won't jam, it will run for a straight 31 starred canned beans no problem.

[supple stone]

The wiki states that the total value of a worm farm'd Canned Beans is 82g, kinda just trusted that

(8 worms, 21 QB)

[neat vortex]

...21?

QUALITY fert?

lol what the devil

[supple stone]

That's what the wiki says...

Same with Canned pumpkins apparently

[neat vortex]

Okay, testing required, clearly...

[supple stone]

Definitely haha

[neat vortex]

I'd expect them to be savory, but god only knows how they got coded

[supple stone]

Pumpkin I can kinda see being sweet

Beans? Don't see it at all

[neat vortex]

Yeah, but it's still listed as a vegetable, not a fruit

shrug It's all arbitrary, anyway, it doesn't have to conform to logic

11m on these canned beans

tbh canned beans being as cost-effective (in terms of focus per opportunity cost) as steak dinner took me aback

Slightly less, but still very good

Now, in terms of garden tile opportunity cost... idk if they can compare.

I still haven't done the math on focus per tile per tick 😂

LOOOOL well assuming pumpkin yield hasn't changed, RAW batterfly beans beat out preserved pumpkins for gold per tile per tick

[supple stone]

Jeez, that's insane haha

[neat vortex]

poor pumpkins

[supple stone]

Also, if the 82g in worm farm for canned beans is true, by my reckoning that makes them about as good as seeding rice... But trading convenience of not needing replanting for a bunch more crafter time

[neat vortex]

If they do give QU, that would be, um. Interesting.

I don't think I'd bother with them, tbh, because I'd just be dumping piles of quality fert in the bin and not even able to use those slots to produce the HB fert I need for the garden

(speaking for myself personally, not giving advice there)

Seeding rice is already pretty inefficient in terms of crafter time because it jams A LOT

it's a fast craft with a very real chance for that unstarred seed to pop out

[supple stone]

Yeah, true

On all counts

[neat vortex]

(the bonus seed, as you know)

but rice has some really good uses in cooking

profit parties AND focus food

so I try not to seed mine lol

Alright, starred canned beans, into the worm farm, let's gooo

[floral talon]

Wel time to delete all my bean layouts since they got no use anymore 😭

[neat vortex]

Unless folks need 'em for cooking, I guess, lol

2x2s are hard to work into a layout no matter what

I'm not sure what I'm going to do, really

I am SO glad the buff display is back, though

[exotic kernel]

The piksii berries are not considered sweet by the worm farm?

[neat vortex]

No, they're savory for some reason

[supple stone]

Worm farm logic hahaha

[exotic kernel]

I just thought i would be logical the sweet and savory but im not sure anymore ajajajja

[neat vortex]

It mostly is...

[exotic kernel]

Okay thanks

[supple stone]

Are there any non-EW exceptions to this?

[neat vortex]

I'd have to check Arenvanya's spreadsheet to be sure. I think maybe some of the bought foods might be weird?

[supple stone]

Ahhh, ok
Interesting, in a weird way

[neat vortex]

e.g.

all of Delaila's desserts lol
edit: from the LNY event only

Oh, and Quiche Caleri also

[supple stone]

Oof

[neat vortex]

So, as I said - arbitrary

This is true of many things in the game, tbh - there will be a general pattern, but then that pattern always has exceptions or anomalies

Because, if you'll forgive me for saying so, the attention to detail really just isn't there, lol

and most of this stuff is so minor that it's very far down the priority list

[supple stone]

Well, wasn't Mushroom Quiche added with EW update?
And Delailas stuff was added by the Maji Market (guessing also Lunar? Not been to that yet)
So base game had the patterns, but the attention to detail then got lost

[neat vortex]

LNY stuff was added in February 2024

Mushroom quiche is newER but not EW-new

I think it came in with the Roots Temple update?

same with Quiche Caleri

[floral talon]

Kinda doubt poeple need such large amounts of em xd

[neat vortex]

The recipes for beans do all take 3 beans per round, so, idk

[supple stone]

Ah, ok. I only started since EW, but thought there was a mushroom dish that was added along with EW. Never mind haha

[restive otter]

O, thanks for letting me know! That will avoid some nasty surprises 🙂

[floral talon]

Il keep the more chill ones then but not the tryhards

[neat vortex]

Oh, yeah, there were a ton of recipes added with EW! ...but, um, weirdly, none that use mushrooms? 😂

[supple stone]

Huh, wonder where I got that idea from then haha

[supple stone]

Depending on the results of the canned beans in worm farm experiment that Ren is doing, chiller beans might not be so bad as we thought

[neat vortex]

THAT REMINDS ME I need to update my solo focus foods to use staircase mushrooms for the any-mushroom...

[supple stone]

Gl Ren, hope that's a quick task haha

[neat vortex]

idk wtf is up with the wiki and their tables recently

[supple stone]

Probably newer people taking on the task of updating it? Issue with wikis is you need a committed community to ensure it's all correct and up to date

[neat vortex]

Evidently it's an issue with a tool(?) they've been using on the back end starting to struggle due to the size of the wiki, not anything users are doing. A lot of those tables are automatically compiled.

They're working on it, but it's going to take some reconfiguring, as you might imagine

As long as I know it's being worked on, I can be patient, but it means that any of those automatically-generated lists will be suspect for the time being and needing to be double-checked in-game

[delicate stirrup]

Does harvest growth fertiliser work if u already have 100% harvest boost from crops?

[neat vortex]

No, they are the same buff and don't stack. You can put the fertilizer on, but it will just sit in the soil and won't be consumed as long as the crop has the buff from a neighbor

[delicate stirrup]

alright, thanks!

[neat vortex]

indeed it does ಠ_ಠ ffs
82g total, but at what cost

Yeah, CRAP, this means it will jam before it processes 31 canned beans

31*21 is 651 QU fertilizer, so that takes up 7 slots.
31*8 is 248 worms, 3 slots.
There are only 6 slots in the output bin.

Welp.

On the upside, this also means that there is a decent source for QU fertilizer available to new players, as long as they unlock the canned beans first.

argh we're gonna have to test ALL of the Elderwood recipes in the worm/glow worm farms

[neat vortex]

Maximum of 19 starred canned beans before the worm farm stalls T_T
152 worms and 399 fertilizer takes up all 6 stacks

dammit etc. etc.

also testing unstarred in reg worm farm and starred and unstarred in glow worm farms

also (along with the others doing so) I am re-testing pumpkins lol

[terse jacinth]

where do people find out about crop balance changes?

[neat vortex]

I like the changes to the flower icons that indicate what stage they're in! That's darn handy

[neat vortex]

Other than here, you mean?

[terse jacinth]

yeah

[neat vortex]

I have no idea where else people are getting their info.

[terse jacinth]

if it's not included in the patch notes how do people know that for example beans were nerfed

[neat vortex]

Wiki, reddit, various community Discords spreading the word, Facebook communities? Instagram?

(People don't necessarily read the patch notes, though)

six questions a day where the answer was in the patch notes, lol

(that's fine, it's a lot to read, and not always obvious what it was talking about, if you're newer to the game)

I'm not active on the subreddit anymore, but it would probably be kind for someone to post about it there

And @stable ginkgo might want to post a quick update also about the beans nerf T_T whenever there is time

[terse jacinth]

someone should just release a crop tierlist every once in a while

[neat vortex]

I mean, we have one

[terse jacinth]

we do?

[neat vortex]

Maybe not a Tiermaker tierlist

[terse jacinth]

where can i find it? :3

[neat vortex]

but, yes, and actually several options to choose from XD
Here's mine (crop revenue rankings): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qPbCKTJg8xYlR1Pw60ZkaXAERRkXaMC0r3UZZKLWQ_g/edit?gid=1516533569#gid=1516533569

[supple stone]

Hmm, reckon yours might be done before mine haha

[supple stone]

19h means it takes less time than seeding Bok Choy to stall =/

[neat vortex]

Yeah. 19h really isn't great, plus the transfer time.

and also squatting on 2 crafter slots at once

[weak flicker]

hello guys! are apples the best way to get good gold casually? just planting > making seeds > selling seeds?

[neat vortex]

Apples are... middling, and best jarred into apple jam

(144g per apple as jam vs 105g per apple as seeds)

[supple stone]

For casual play apples do work well though as you don't need to replant very often

[neat vortex]

Yep, they do have the advantage of reducing your labor significantly if you buff them with other crops

[loud skiff]

Here's link to spreadsheet. looks like bok choy to seeds is really good for casual $ making
#🌱│gardening message

[left fox]

what about potato?? im a new player and im not yet familiar with recipes and stuff

[supple stone]

Not sure about it being casual play friendly. You need to replant and water every 3 days, plus seeders jam after 16 crops processed. So you do kinda need to be on it for remembering to empty them

[neat vortex]

The top cash crops for solo processing post-0.193 are:

1. bok choy (best as seeds, OK as preserves)
2. potatoes (best as seeds, OK as preserves)1
3. rice (seeds)
4. tomatoes (preserves)

[loud skiff]

#🌱│gardening message For really early game play, bok choy seeds sell really well, click on the link to see $ crops

[weak flicker]

bok choy sounds good to me too but it takes 1 hour and 22 minutes for 4 seeds, ain't that long?

[left fox]

so you just sell them as they are after harvesting?

[loud skiff]

I also found worms sell really good as well and I always have more worms than I need

[supple stone]

I would say really early on bok choy clogs your seeder and stops you replanting your whole garden, so best off selling most bok choy raw
Obviously depend son how early game though, and what they have prioritised in terms of unlocking tools or crafter slots

[loud skiff]

you make more if you turn them into seeds, then sell the seeds, but you need to save some seeds to plant more, etc.

[neat vortex]

tbh I can't think of anything higher-priority than unlocking more crafter slots, because they are a direct investment in being able to multiply the value of stuff from your garden

[left fox]

ohh ok tysm!!

[loud skiff]

If you can afford multiple seed machines (and tickets to increase number of crafting machines), then you can try to get more than 1 seed machines to help make seeds faster

[neat vortex]

perhaps upgrading to fine axe and fine pick, since those unlock palium and large trees

[weak flicker]

how much seed machines would you advice? atm i've got 8 seed collectors and 15 glow worm farm

[neat vortex]

holy smokes that is so many glow worms lol

[loud skiff]

you're way more farther than me, lots of others here know lots more than me. i'm still early game farmer

[neat vortex]

It depends how many growth ticks you get per day and what crops you're planting

[weak flicker]

i always bought shrooms from zeki and put them into the glow worm farm. i sold worms and most of the fertilizers. also always planted tomatoes and made seeds

[neat vortex]

Here is the (wordy) version of how to calculate it:
#🌱│gardening message

[weak flicker]

oh i see!

[neat vortex]

oh wow ancient meta :D

from before I started playing, even

Those were great strats in their time

[weak flicker]

very ancient i believe. but seems like it's bok choy now, so i just might switch some glow worm farms to seed collectors.

yeah very great strats, loved it

[stiff tulip]

How exactly was Weed Prevention fertilizer made again?

[neat vortex]

It isn't - must be purchased from General Store

[stiff tulip]

oh, okay, where was that one again?

[neat vortex]

It's the store that Zeki runs in the village :)

You buy the fertilizer from the cash register there

[neat vortex]

If you're into minmaxed layouts, here are some options: #🌱│gardening message

(I removed the bean layouts from the list 😭)

[weak flicker]

thanks! i will take a look at it. why did yu remove the beans

[neat vortex]

Beans got a solid, unannounced nerf this patch, so they are no longer the top cash crop

They're roundabouts the middle, along with apples/carrots/onions

[supple stone]

Their profitability was halved due to them now needing 2 beans per seed rather than 1 for 1

Imagine how much confusion it would cause if devs turned around and said it was unintended and reversed the nerf =3

[neat vortex]

lol

we live and math at their whim

[supple stone]

This is the way

[neat vortex]

XD

cultivate nonattachment

right along with your nerfed beans

[supple stone]

ok, first harvest of Pumpkins, yield of 3 (with boost) on growth day 9...so exactly what we'd expect for no change, sadly

[weak flicker]

damn i never understood the mixed gardening layouts since they have different growth times etc. too stupid for that

[floral talon]

It can make sense but sure is hard
And im like if u gotto harvest reseed almost every growthtick then why bother do much with weedblock lmao

[supple stone]

They also have buffs to make things easier though, so don't need to water/weed every day and you get more yield from harvest boost buff

[supple stone]

Very true haha
Still nice to have weed block though imo

Besides, best profit crop comes with weed block....

[weak flicker]

hmm.. so if i don't want to come back every hour, i need water retain and weed block. so i only water at the beginning and come back x hours later for harvesting, depends on the plant. right?

[supple stone]

Depends on the plant yeah. Bok Choy is ready in 3 days, so most labour intensive option, potatoes 5 days and 2nd best profit crop now

Everything is different, and some crops regrow which is convenient too

[weak flicker]

i think i will plant bok choy only. watering and removing the weed 3 times a rl day, harvesting and putting them into the seed collector

[supple stone]

Fair enough, would definitely advise harvest boost fertiliser for that

[weak flicker]

very important

[neat vortex]

Updoot on canned bean yields from different worm farms:

Unstarred canned beans (41g)

• 6 reg. worms, 16 QU fertilizer (total 62g), or +21g
  • stalls after 25 hours
• 1 glow worm, 16 QU fertilizer (total 57g), or +16g

Starred canned beans (61g)

• 8 reg worms, 21 QU fertilizer (total 82g), or +21g
  • stalls after 19 hours
• 1 glow worm, 21 QU fertilizer (total 67g), or +6g (LOL)

So, it miiiiight be fine to, like... can your unstarred foraged beans, then worm them. I guess?

2 beans -> 2 canned beans -> reg worm farm = 124g in 1 hour 33 minutes (plus any transfer time, in 4 crafter slots)
vs.
2 beans -> 1 bean seed = 90g in 1 hour 25 minutes (in 1 crafter slot)

eh.

better to use the extra crafter slots to process other forageables into glow worms imo

[supple stone]

I mean, on average, more like 3 crafter slots. 2 worm farms and just over 1 preserver

[neat vortex]

those get 29g+ per hour

[neat vortex]

That's true

Hm

[supple stone]

That's fair, but requires bothering to forage enough to ensure you never run out

[neat vortex]

lol have you SEEN how many dang staircase mushrooms you get from even casual shmole hunting

or even just picking them up whenever you see them?

[supple stone]

This is true

[neat vortex]

shmoles don't even despawn, so all you have to do is tag them once and then go collect later, if you don't feel like playing whack-a-shmole

I actually have more of a problem of not being able to field enough glow worm farms to handle the result of running around in EW, and I am really not an avid hunter/very tired lately... XD

But, if you're a pure homebody, then the math is there for you to do your own reckoning

[floral talon]

For me 2 are enuf and thats only cuz much things cannot be staccked

[neat vortex]

lol why is this notification so goofy-looking

center top of the screen

Fertilizer isn't making a sound effect, either 🤔

or if it is, it's very very quiet

[bleak rivet]

do you just preserve everything for big $$ ??

[supple stone]

So, that layout is no longer anywhere near as profitable as it was yesterday before the patch as beans got heavily nerfed.

In general though,
Bok Choy, Potatoes, Rice and Wheat you seed for profit, most others preserve (hope I didn't miss any).
Beans... Well, you can preserve then worm farm the preserve or just seed. Worm farming the preserve gives bonus gold but whether or not it is worth it depends on what else you would use the crafter slot for.

[silent iron]

oopsies, I wasn't ready to sent that yet

[supple stone]

Hate sending stuff early haha

I think there are quite a few people who have made their own spreadsheets, and I think at least a few are public. Ren would probably know better

But would be happy to look over numbers for sure

Is handy having your own sheet imo as everyone lays it out differently

[next scarab]

Is there a channel/tab/thread that shows the most profitable garden layout? If so could someone point me in the right direction please

I'm getting overwhelmed by all of the different Facebook and Reddit comments saying different things 😂

[silent iron]

I made a table for figuring out the cash benefit of each individual crop per slot because I couldn't find one anywhere. It's updated to include the bean seed nerf and appears to agree totally with the Palia Garden Planner from my limited testing, but due to ADHD I'm terrible at keeping track of things like mistakes and how many days I watered a plant so could I get someone to give it a once-over to see if I made any glaring mistakes? I checked every sell price on the wiki, for instance, and got the days to harvest from the Palia Garden Planner (I really tried to get that information on my own and got a different value from every plant )

PC is Per Crop. only relevant to seeds. And technically fabric but I did the math externally. Column R (seeds/crop) multiplied by column H (Crops/Day/Slot)
PDPS is Per Day, Per Slot. Column H (crops/day/slot) = E (crops/plant-harvest) divided by F (days/harvest) divided by G (slots/plant). The units make me want to cry and this is likely where I've made a mistake.

• N (preserves sell/day/slot) = M (preserve sell/crop) *H (crops/day/slot)
• S (seed sell/day/slot) = R (seed sell/crop) *H (crops/day/slot)

[restive otter]

Also happy I sold what I could, before the update went through 😂

[supple stone]

@next scarab This post of Ren's has several options

[silent iron]

I agree. I don't really have the spoons for multiple crops in a layout and I was getting so confused by everything. This spreadsheet has taken me like years to make ngl because I keep messing things up.

that's why some of the crops don't have links associated with their names, I added them to the sheet before the wiki had articles on them

Hopefully it's futureproof though. All the math is formulas and conditional highlighting that I can just copy from previous rows now.

still... like... pumpkins being the weakest crop financially?? why did they have to do my aesthetic so dirty haha

[supple stone]

I know, it's crazy low compared to everything else, really is a shame.

Looking through the numbers now

Welp, immediately see you don't assume harvest boost like I do hahaha
Lemme adjust my numbers for that rq

[silent iron]

LOL no I can't seem to get my worm farms to consistently produce harvest boost! I thought canned beans would do it, but apparently canned beans are considered sweet??

and yeah, I have heard taht you should "sell anything worth more than a morel" but I also have like 2 worm farms

technically 8 but it's still not enough

[supple stone]

Yeah, we were discussing that earlier...so odd
And, I tend to use layouts that ensure harvest boost on everything (or at least, I did before the patch. Not decided what I'll do now yet haha)

[supple stone]

However, grilled fish is my preferred method for this. Even common unstarred glow worm fish will get you 4 glow worms per hour on a glow worm farm (6 if they happen to get starred when grilling)

[floral talon]

What works for me is exces meats foragables and grilled fish
Some dishes could work to but i dont cook more then i eat or sell anyways

[silent iron]

hmm, I've been just selling my worms because i produce too many

[floral talon]

Same i worm stuff for fert gues infinite worms on the side is nice to

[silent iron]

wiki says it's 2 glow worms and 11 fertilizer for a star grilled fish, breaking even on worms

1 glow worm for a regular grilled fish, so you'd be losing a worm every time

[supple stone]

I have the exact same numbers for best gold per tick per space 👍
Would suggest everything else is good too, but will have a look

[silent iron]

but I always have plenty of mushrooms for worms tbh

[silent iron]

I think if the final result is the same, we can assume all the math leading up to it is logical

[silent iron]

I wonder if the wiki is wrong

[supple stone]

Grilled fish value depends on the value of the 2 fish used to make it (normally 2 of the same fish). You get 1 glow worm per 50g value (rounded, so it can be a bit less than this)
Common glow worm fish are around 100g each, so 200g grilled as it uses 2. 300 if starred. That's 4 or 6 glows

[supple stone]

The glow worm farm page does have the formula

[silent iron]

oooo right

yeah so it would be using some other fish when it lists the food in the table

[supple stone]

Probably the cheapest

[silent iron]

like maybe a regular worm fish or nobait fish

[floral talon]

Grilled fish vary in value based on which fish are grilled

[supple stone]

Likely no bait. Think they're 40 or 60g (from memory, could be wrong haha), so both of those round to 2 glow worms

[silent iron]

and since i have to farm for new plushies anyway I'm bout to have a lot of fish hanging around

[floral talon]

Omg cys beats me to it

[supple stone]

Maybe your chat didn't properly scroll, pain when that happens

[floral talon]

Only real use of exces fish common/uncommon fish is gril to worm or sel anyways since we got ogoo meat as best option for fish food to eat now

[floral talon]

I loop through it top to bottom i dont see an answer an entire scroll ahead

[supple stone]

Ah, well...sorry for beating you to it?

[floral talon]

Nah its fine 🤣

[hazy whale]

Hey does anyone have a good crop layout that makes good money but also has a lil more variety of crops especially the newer ones (eg for cooking)? Im still trying to find something that works for me

[floral talon]

this might work but like u can substitute crops abit if htey are the same buff type i just make em all the same for easynes of makign the layout

[jade dust]

I need to save up for pumpkins 😅

[floral talon]

in the meantime u coudl place any other 2x2 there

[hazy whale]

Thanks but 330 per hour? Am I missing something?

[floral talon]

yeay thats bs vlaue just click the link do the right settings and u get a real one

but i cannot update images easily its to much work to update pictures nonstop

[hazy whale]

What are the right settings?

[clear kindle]

okay, so since bean seeds got a buff as far as time to process goes (down from 2 hours and now needing 2 beans to seed), what's the math like to figure out how many seeders i need to not only keep up with it, but also to have excess in case i want to make burgers. just one now?

[floral talon]

lv25 star seeds growthtick and what stuff hsould be processed into
and i make my layotus based on buffs so u coudl replace cabbage with tomatoes which are more work look like the apples and are money same for corn into wheat

[hazy whale]

this?

Im still new to this sorry im not sure what you mean

[floral talon]

yeay but use growthtick

[hazy whale]

Ah I see it now, so youre supposed to process the stuff?

[floral talon]

like if i make a layout im not saying u can only use cabbage potato i just use cabbage potato as water retains in it cuz its easier tomatoes lookt o much like the apples so its confusing
me making cabbage potato could also be tomato potato or cabbage tomato it doesnt matter the buffs are the samme

[floral talon]

yeay otherwise the value will be much lower and why not process its not like ur crafters are always working on materials u gathered unels u have far to few crafter licenses or are using them for storage

[floral talon]

u at least ask questions yey

[floral talon]

yeay uhm so potato bokchoi seeds
if u can jar it jar
except self use and if u ever grow cotton it is for self use

[hazy whale]

So I could switch all the cabbage to tomatoes?

[hazy whale]

I have 12 license thingys I dont like to switch that much but I will see what I can do about that

[floral talon]

that owuld be more work but also more moneys

[hazy whale]

I see, thank you

And no fertilizer on all the other crops?

Like some have the dark green one, why does the rest not have any?

[floral talon]

they do not need it and u can do without any fert on that layout the Harvest boost just gives u more produce on those pspots as eveyr other spot gets harvest boost from their neighbours

[hazy whale]

Oh I see, also some of them are turned into seed, why? More money when selling?

[floral talon]

yeay only bokchoi and potato are more money seeded then jarred and well other stuff thats seeded has no jarred version so can only seed

that pic still has beans being seeded but htey nerfed that yesterday

[hazy whale]

So do you can beans now? Also Im not lvl 25 in gardening yet but lvl 18, so should I use fertilizer on those without any?

[floral talon]

u coudl dump quality up there but no need u hit lv 25 fast enuf
yup beans are probably canned idk anymore but seeds being halved probs makes jar better

[hazy whale]

When I change it on the layout to canned the money goes down a bit idk maybe the website didnt adjust the value yet tho?

[floral talon]

yeay its not updated beans use dot be 1 bean 1 bean seed but htey changed htat yesterday

[hazy whale]

Alright, thanks alot for the help!

[midnight jetty]

does anyone have a good all crops layout with the newer crops? trying to find one i can keep watered, i haven't played since the elderwoods update !!

[floral talon]

that basically what bloodmagic asked for u can scroll up till u see a image

[hazy whale]

I think they want ALL crops tho

[floral talon]

in that case u can replace hte inner corns for cotton even though u reallly hs ouldnt bother with cotton(past a certain lv)

[midnight jetty]

yeah i'm looking at that one to adjust so it has tomatoes, cotton and wheat but its a good base !! ty!!

[floral talon]

yw

[neat vortex]

This will always depend on your growth ticks per RL day, can't give you a flat answer here

[hazy whale]

Oh yeah wheat, is that also something you should just buy or can I replace anything with it?

[clear kindle]

that's the thing, i can usually get anywhere from 6-12 or more hours depending on my work schedule. i honestly just sit in front of my computer on my switch all day long when i'm at home

[floral talon]

yeay any other hb 1 tile plant wheat aint toabd tbh

[hazy whale]

Alright thanks!

[wicked fox]

Whats a good layout for Baterfly beans?

[clear kindle]

though beans got nerfed from yesterdays update, so the crop is now down with apples so mid-tier

[wicked fox]

Shucks, but star seeds are still pretty good

[clear kindle]

i'm still going to use the 4 apple 2 bean layout and still seed beans so i think it's fine, it's just not as much gold as it could have been

[dreamy lark]

Was batterfly beans always 2 for 1 seed bag?

[wicked fox]

no

[eternal ruin]

Nope. Was always 1:1

That's part of what made their conversion so powerful, despite the long timer.

[dreamy lark]

oh my gosh did they change it???

[eternal ruin]

If you read above for the last few days it's been a whole thing.

[willow beacon]

with the latest patch yes

[eternal ruin]

but basically, beans is now on par with the rest of the crops in middling.

[dreamy lark]

holy hell!!! painnnnn

[eternal ruin]

It's still reasonably useful if you can't be around often as far as profit to processing go, but it's no longer crazy meta.

[clear kindle]

the only thing that helps is that they make for great afk layouts

[dreamy lark]

By chance did they ever change tomatoes too? I swear it used to not need three crops for two bags before.

[supple stone]

Was like that before I'm afraid

[dreamy lark]

Must be. Did they reduce the time for process on age beans tho?

[neat vortex]

It's been like that for a long time, but it was a change that happened sometime before I started playing, forget which patch (I started in Jan 2024 so it's been a bit...)

[supple stone]

Age? Do you mean preserving/canning them? That time is the same
They shortened the time needed to seed however

[dreamy lark]

Ty!! would have been nice to know in the patch notes!

[supple stone]

100% agree with you there

[neat vortex]

ah, yep, was back in Aug 2023
https://palia.com/news/patch-167

[supple stone]

In fact, I think everyone who's been in this chat agrees with you

[neat vortex]

Definitely would have been a positive to have this in the patch notes, and I'm honestly surprised it wasn't

but given the other issues in the patch notes... I feel like this is another instance of "moving too fast" and "the CM is not being given correct info in a timely fashion to put IN the notes"

Lacie must be drowning 😩 so much to catch up on after they didn't have one for so long

[supple stone]

Oh, pumpkin update, currently on growth day 14 and so far, it's been exactly as expected sadly. Have had 3 harvests of 3 pumpkins each (HB active)
Shall see if day 15 is still the end of it

Though, done the maths, keeping the 2 day gap between harvests starting at day 9, you would need an additional SIX harvests for pumpkins to no longer be the bottom ranked profit crop. That's...rather insane

That would also make pumpkins last 27 days, only 3 less than Apples
So, obviously not happening haha

[neat vortex]

lol clearly not

[supple stone]

If they ever buffed pumpkins, would be more likely for them to buff the yield. Though doubling the yield would make them stronger than everything except Bok Choy and Potato
Considering you need to buy it for 500 essence, which is only really possible once you start the EW quests (ie, after the main story)...that might not be as bad as it sounds.

Doubling the yield but removing 1 harvest day would still make it the strongest multi-tile crop...
Bah, why am I engaging in these hypotheticals hahaha

They obviously don't care about pumpkins

[sudden tundra]

Hello, I have an apple tree that has been taking up 9 squares for about 15 in real life days, hasn't put out but one time and it won't go away any ideas?

[tranquil olive]

Are we able to get this blue plant??

[tranquil olive]

You should be able to use the hoe and get rid of it

[clear kindle]

apple trees take the longest to grow to harvests 12hours for the first harvest, then 6 hours for 3 more times. depending on how long you play a day (or if you have a lot of weeds on the plots or apple tree or not watering it) it will take a long time to grow as the garden only grows one stage when you are offline

[sudden tundra]

I tried on all 9 plots and the tree itself but it is still here, thank you though.

[sudden tundra]

I would agree but I have been on long enough for that to come and go, have grown quiet a few but never have had one do this.

[supple stone]

ok, Pumpkins are the same as before, I can fully confirm this now. Sad times, was hoping they might have been adjusted somewhat.

[supple stone]

Just to make sure the obvious questions have been asked, has it been watered and free from weeds the entire time? And have other crops been growing in your garden?
If you've grown a bunch in the past, I doubt it's this, but kinda have to make sure

If you just want to clear the spot and replant, you can do so with the hoe secondary action (right click on PC, whatever switch ammo for bow/bombs is on console)

[sudden tundra]

I appreciate that but yes, watered and fertilized which I am not putting anymore fert on it, it is a waste at this point and watered and yes, the other crops grow just fine.

[supple stone]

Well always an option to cut your losses, remove it and replant it then

[sudden tundra]

How do I do that? I have tried with the hoe.

[supple stone]

^^#

[neat vortex]

Thanks for doing the testing!

[sudden tundra]

That worked! I have never tried the right click🙄 Thank you so very much! And you as well @tranquil olive 🤗

[supple stone]

Honestly, part of it is just giving space to work out what I want to do next with my garden haha
I had just made a layout I was happy with, and it may not be worthwhile anymore

And I was also hoping they gave the pumpkins some love

[sudden tundra]

What are wrong with the pumpkins?

[supple stone]

Worst crop for profit by a long margin. Even the next worst crop is a whole 1/3rd more profitable. The most profitable is 2.5x as profitable per day per space

[sudden tundra]

Maybe the fert needs to actually be boosted, the most I get from crops are 2, I use the green kind of fert.

[neat vortex]

"green kind"?

[supple stone]

Speedy gro?

[sudden tundra]

To be specific, HarvestBoost Fert

[floral talon]

literly had someone hwod claimed pumpkins where the highest and im like if u dont understand numbers then plz dont talk numbers

[sudden tundra]

I sell that lol.

[neat vortex]

If you mean that one YouTuber, they were going off of incorrect data about the yields (and apparently had never actually harvested the pumpkins they grew for the video...)

[neat vortex]

...are you buying it with guild medals just to sell?

[floral talon]

nah someone in an other discored and i pointed it out 3 times no pumpkins are hte literally worst ones they called me crazy

[sudden tundra]

I am no greenhorn, I don't buy it I make it.

[neat vortex]

You can't make SpeedyGro anymore, tell us your secrets

[floral talon]

hax

[sudden tundra]

Well I don't make it I had it in my inventory so I guess in the past I had bought it? No positive I have a busy life outside of palia, hard to keep up.

[neat vortex]

In the past it was possible to make it, yes

but that changed about, oh, 13 patches ago XD

[candid sedge]

Build 0.180:

SpeedyGro Fertilizer will no longer be obtained by Glow Worm Farm Glow Worm Farm, but will still be available for Gardening Medals at the Gardening Guild Store.

that patch was 28-05-2024, over a year ago

[sudden tundra]

Well I didn't have to empty out my storage chest back then lol. I had no choice but to sell it😆

[candid sedge]

must have had quite the stockpile if it lasts for over a year!

[sudden tundra]

Over 500 can't recall the exact amount, I needed those apples to grow quickly.

[supple stone]

Yeesh, they be crazy misinformed

[supple stone]

Sound like that backfired...

[sudden tundra]

Yeah, no speedy grow, no grow.

[neat vortex]

If you are now using harvestboost, genuinely, then something is off. Most crops with HB should yield 3 (+50% yield from the base amount). The boost is guaranteed if the fertilizer is on the plant for every growth tick that it is growing (stacking proc chance)

[sudden tundra]

Well I only add it at the end, right before they are fully grown.Is that the reason?

[supple stone]

That's the reason

[neat vortex]

roflmao YEP THAT'LL DO IT

[sudden tundra]

Sigh, ok thank you guys so much for the information, y'all know y'alls business here in the Garden Center😆

[supple stone]

The chance of you getting the 50% bonus is the percentage of days you had harvest boost buff on the crop

It can be from either fertiliser or adjacent crops or a mix of both, but it does not stack. If you miss even 1 day, you may not get the bonus yield

[sudden tundra]

Do any of you guys use Sernuk meat to get the good fert? I have read where people actually cook and put that in there, I am not going to cook to put it in the worm farm but I will hunt and fish and gather.

[supple stone]

I fish and grill it

[sudden tundra]

Ok thank you for the guidance.

[supple stone]

All good ^^

[neat vortex]

For cheap/basically free HB fert (assuming you're selling or using the glow worms), yeah, feed your raw sernuk, muujin, ogopuu meat to your glow worms. Or anything savory at 16g, or 13g or under. (Piksii berries are savory... no, I don't know.)

[sudden tundra]

Ok thank you as well for the guidance, peeps need to start coming in here and asking questions more....like me😆

[neat vortex]

Check the fertilizer spreadsheet linked in the pins for more info and, like, formulas and stuff

[supple stone]

So I've realised, I don't mind spamming a stack of fertiliser on multi-tile crops so much, but spamming on loads of single tile crops is a painnnnnn

[clear kindle]

mmm... i think i'm going to go down to 1 seeder for beans... now that it takes 2 to produce a seed, and the time has been changed, i don't need the other two seeders that i had for it as two things of beans won't fill the the three of them anymore

[supple stone]

Never thought we'd be saying something like that a couple days ago haha

[clear kindle]

seriously, i was playing long enough to get the beans to grow with very little going into my storage, now i have an entire seeder empty of crafting beans, another one that's got 13 minutes to go to be empty and the last one has only 18 beans left to go but my beans in the garden aren't ready to be harvested yet

may turn out that i dump beans altogether and just go back to harvesting the apples for jams and the beans to make burgers for focus

[supple stone]

Don't entirely blame you

[clear kindle]

well, like right now, i have no beans outside of the 18 that's in my seeder, but in storage i have 163 apples and all of my jars just got topped off to 30

[celest ruin]

Any thoughts about the high profit beans layouts? Guess they are not as profitable anymore?
Alternatives?

[supple stone]

Yeah, you were real unfortunate coming and asking about Beans layouts when you did, if only we'd know the patch was going to nerf them =/
But have a look at this post ^^

Bok Choy is now king of profit again, but they are less convenient than Beans were by a long shot

Beans still aren't terrible, they're just on par with all other multi-tile crops other than the terrible Pumpkins. They're actually still the best multi-tile crop, but it's not by a huge amount, and Bok Choy/Potatoes/Rice/Wheat/Corn are still better

Wait, even seeding COTTON might now be better than Beans??? That's...interesting

[celest ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/meonly-gif-19710542

[celest ruin]

That's really true. A bummer
I harvested like 120 starred beans by only planting once since yesterday with your layout.
I think Im going to need to change again now

[floral talon]

on the brightside ur crafters can keep up now

[celest ruin]

Thank you very much for your help !

[supple stone]

tbf, the layout isn't terrible for profit, it's just maybe 2/3rds as good as it was before?
More of an average layout now.
But yeah, see if any of the others in that list Ren compiled strike your fancy

Actually, bit better than 2/3rds.
Also, if you want to make up a bit of the lost profit on your Beans, you can by preserving the beans and putting them in a worm farm. Extra level of processing, which is annoying, but it does work out slightly better than Seeding them
Whether it is worth the extra crafter slot though...very possibly not, unless you wouldn't be doing anything with the crafter slot anyway

It doesn't make them as good as they were pre-nerf, not at all, but it's a bit better than seeding them now

[floral talon]

i recommend this one now if ur tryharding
its not hte best but the other one sur prone to mess up the complicated pattern

[celest ruin]

No WR?

[supple stone]

If you don't like weeds, you can swap some Bok Choys there for Onions to make it all weed proof too

[floral talon]

nope thats what makes it tryhard

[supple stone]

I mean, water retaining fert also exists

[celest ruin]

True

[floral talon]

yeay but placing that down is just tooo tedious but u could do it i would honestly macro the placement so u dont have to manually click that much

[celest ruin]

What's that 💀

[supple stone]

If you wanted weed and water on that. But placing that much fertiliser is definitely a pain

[floral talon]

something that can script user action on a computer but just use it for stuff like palcing down fert not making complicated scripts to cheat

[supple stone]

Or if you have a controller with a turbo function, that might work

[celest ruin]

That's actually very interesting

[supple stone]

If you wanted to do whole stacks of 99 fert on the whole plot, you would need 2 trips to Zeki's shop in order to buy enough. You need like 5.5 inventory rows of fertiliser

[celest ruin]

I need apples somewhere
That total though is nice

[celest ruin]

Definitely couple thousands of fertiliser if I got it right

[supple stone]

Yeah, no, more than 5.5 rows, I can't rememebr how big the inv is and have closed my game haha

Just over 8k fert needed, so 80 stacks in your inv

But...it is a LOT of effort

[floral talon]

nah just do one trip u probs get bored with alayout after so many growhtticks

theres a reason i only go for the afk 6 apples one

[supple stone]

Probably haha

[supple stone]

Anyway, gl working out what layout you want Ben. If you wanted to squeeze an apple tree in easily, this works. Probably could be done better but I'm heading to bed, so this was a quick solution haha
Bye!

[floral talon]

ben yo wan ttha tapple in it i can do it way better lol

[celest ruin]

Thats awesome
Thank You! Good Night

[celest ruin]

How 😂

[supple stone]

For some reason that corn is saying negative numbers haha, so weird.
Yeah, you'll be in good hands with Duh

[celest ruin]

Duh

[floral talon]

u just lsightly weave it in on an ofset though if u do this u cannot move the soils around anymore

[supple stone]

Oh yeah, makes much more sense

[floral talon]

i mean im someone who does this with hte confetti layout XD

[supple stone]

I'm sure I would have seen that if I wasn't so tired haha

I have no idea what confetti layout is

[floral talon]

its a 100% 4 buff(yes u heard that right 4 this shouldnt even be possible) min fert max gold layout

[celest ruin]

Im done moving soils around
Last time I had to wait like 3 days
So that works

[floral talon]

lemme grab it for ya

behold my masterpiece CONFETTI!!!

[slow flame]

Do beans still give the best benefits after this update?

[supple stone]

Big no sadly

[clear kindle]

nope, they're on the same tier as apples now. bok choy is back on top if you want a money farm

[celest ruin]

Hmm nice
Without apples though

[supple stone]

Interesting, I really like it as a theorycraft though practically I see little use outside of very early levels of gardening sadly

[floral talon]

but hten i will have to add in apples and scrnshot it again ughh

[floral talon]

some poeple ask for max afk low level money so i made this to mess with them
im like a genie u get what u ask for but ul always regret it

[supple stone]

hehehe

[supple stone]

Good thing whenever I've partied up with you it's been you asking for party members not me then

Anyway, I'm actually going to bed now, bye all

[floral talon]

mh confettis very nature does not work well with weaving in apples though 2x2s would work

[floral talon]

gn cys

[celest ruin]

Maybe with a bit more fertilisers
I need to look into that

[eternal ruin]

Makes me wonder if my thought on multiharvest fertizlier manipulation has any decent output.

Probably not, but random math pondering be pondering.

[slow flame]

Yikes… so how do Bok Choy farms work? I have never done one of those.

[clear kindle]

to get the most out of them, they are a lot of work. they usually forgo any water/weed retain and focus on harvest boost.

[dusk cliff]

Why the wheat/rice?

[slow flame]

So what is the best way to process these? Seeds? Preserves?

[clear kindle]

harvest boost the bok choy to get the most out of them

[dusk cliff]

Ohhh okay.

[clear kindle]

seeds, but be warned, this is a very demanding layout. you will get a massive overflow of bok choy to the point where you'll probably just have to sell raw

[eternal ruin]

Or let it build up, take a day off somewhere just to process, then resume, but either way it's more time consumption processing the crops, yes.

[slow flame]

I will try it!

[neat vortex]

There are also AFK (100 percent water/weed) layouts that make PERFECTLY good amounts of gold without all... that.

[clear kindle]

that too

just because a crop is middling for making gold, doesn't mean that it's not good for gold. apples and beans with an afk setup still nets a lot of gold every other irl day or so. easily was able to get 68k from the layout that i'm doing when my jars stalled

[neat vortex]

Tryhard layouts (imo) take gardening's strengths as a passive income source that ticks while you do other things and turns them into manual labor for truly not that much better returns - because it introduces even more opportunities for human error and the intrusion of the terrible idunwannas. XD

because you miss a day of watering and that's a day of zero progress

[clear kindle]

also prevents you from doing a lot of the actual game play/grinding

[neat vortex]

'xactly

Now, some people find them FUN! And that's a perfectly valid reason to do something in a video game for goodness' sake XD

[slow flame]

I do like my afk layouts…

[neat vortex]

I lose track of time too easily for non-afk layouts XD

[slow flame]

Which do you run rn, ren?

[clear kindle]

the apple and beans layout still works, it still makes a good amount of money

[neat vortex]

Oh, I run weird linear layouts tbh

I get lost in the Garden Cube

[slow flame]

Oh? A linear?

I may go back to this one. Apples for preserves and honey lures..

[neat vortex]

Ah yeah, the apple diamond is a classic way to balance effort and gold

[neat vortex]

My alt is currently running this (while I decide what to do instead, post-bean-nerf)
#🌱│gardening message

[slow flame]

I can make profit with profit. Apples for honey lures to go bug hunting / essence farming

[neat vortex]

profit with profit?

[slow flame]

Oh Wow!

[slow flame]

Yis.. LOL apples profit turn them into honey lures for bug farming

[cosmic osprey]

Whats the best batterfly bean production garden plot for maximum afk

[neat vortex]

For cooking, I assume?

[cosmic osprey]

Canned Beans

[neat vortex]

ah yes, no-cook focus food XD

[cosmic osprey]

yep, So what layout would work best?

[neat vortex]

If you are willing to use store-bought fertilizer, this one might work?
#🌱│gardening message

I will dig more in a little bit

[neat vortex]

@clear kindle I meant to link this to you earlier, sorry #🌱│gardening message (re: number of processors you need)
You said it varies widely, so I would see if you can ballpark an average over a week or two

You can always adjust later

[neat vortex]

Here's another option, but does require 4 weedblock fert (which you could skip, if you don't care about your bok choy going out of sync, but I might adjust it so that the tomato is protected naturally; those are a pain if they desync)
#🌱│gardening message

If you don't need the apple tree.... hm

...I think that if you don't need the apple tree, you're basically back to DS's version that I linked earlier

[clear kindle]

thanks for this, i'll have to see where things end up for me. like today i was off work so i've been playing palia (the game has been open and i've been online) for nearly 13 hours now

[neat vortex]

lol yeah, I have "boom and bust" cycles as well

It's always only ever gonna be an estimate shrug

[clear kindle]

i've dropped down to 1 seeder for beans since my other two seeders were empty and my beans were not yet ready for the first harvest since i had to replant them. so, i'll see how that works for me

[neat vortex]

How many beans are you getting per harvest, again?

[clear kindle]

18 so i think 1 seeder will be enough, my main crop is the apple farm

[neat vortex]

nodnod

[clear kindle]

but if i ever feel like it i can take out the blueberries and turn those into beans for an additional 18

[neat vortex]

Okay, yep, 2 harvest-boosted bean plants (18 per harvest) should be fine in one seeder for playtimes averaging under 6 hours per RL day.

If you're getting between 6 and 12+, though, you will likely need more at points

[slow flame]

You guys are so helpful… I really appreciate you guys

[clear kindle]

thinking of making bean burgers for focus foods, so i'll probably use the excess for that

[neat vortex]

Bean burgers as focus food honestly hurts my soul, but I know you aren't worried about gold 😂

[clear kindle]

money is of no concern to me. between me trying to grind for essence and trying to get the plushes for completionist sake i constantly hit cap.

[slow flame]

How the heck…

[clear kindle]

taking to buying 50 zeki coins just to lower it back down

[slow flame]

What is cap? I also need to figure out a main source for focus foods…

[clear kindle]

999,999 gold

[slow flame]

That’s insane.. what do you guys even do with all that?

[neat vortex]

I've got a spreadsheet about solo focus food cooking! :D
I linked it recently in the cooking channel (link goes to specific post): #🍳│cooking-foraging message

[slow flame]

Oh thank you!! ❤️

[neat vortex]

Buy many gold building blocks, rocks, terraces XD

(I refuse to buy lucky coins, but that's my own quirk)

a dozen windmills....

[clear kindle]

unfortunately not much, zeki coins are my main gold sink, mostly because i don't know what else to buy with them that i'm interested in

[slow flame]

🤣🤣 I guess that is fair. I feel like I’m always poor. But honestly… I need to start enjoying the journey.. cause I feel like when I hit cap I’ll be sad and nothing to look forward to getting.

[clear kindle]

wish they would put like the wheel coins that you get from hot pot into the underground store. 20k or 50k a piece would be alright

[neat vortex]

I feel like very few people would bother with hotpot, then

At least it's possible to rack up the prize wheel coins without too much trouble

[clear kindle]

it's a mess down there anyway, it might stop the spampots from being toxic to those who want to play the game like normal

[neat vortex]

I haven't seen that in a long time

but, then again, I tend to blockity block when someone is being a so-n-so, and then they magically disappear from every server I'm in (unless we have mutual friends)

so I guess I curate my player experience pretty tightly

I have no patience for nonsense anymore

[slow flame]

Wait what? Spam bots?

[neat vortex]

Folks who are playing "spampot" (hotpot using the spam strategy)

[clear kindle]

though i have seen in my server chats actual bots offer things for money. i block and report those as soon as i see them

[neat vortex]

Basically, the game automatically ends (giving everyone a participation prize wheel coin) after 16 rounds if the discard piles fill up. So, one strategy to the game is just to spam draw and discard as blazingly fast as you can manage. You can end up with 30 coins in one in-game night of hotpot if everyone is locked in. But... it requires all 4 people at the table to be on board.

If one person is playing regular, then it isn't fast, and it doesn't work. Some people don't know what spampot is, or just run up to any open table without looking at chat (for any number of reasons), and end up on a spampot table without intending to play spampot-style. And some people have at times considered this a reason to be nasty about it.

[neat vortex]

lol yeah never expected to see goldseller spam in Palia, but I guess it's a sign that there's a market? XD

[clear kindle]

which is a shame because this is a cozy game, there are no winners, there is no competition (house tours aside), if you take the game at your own pace, do what you like to do a little bit at a time, then there's no reason to worry about gold as it will naturally come through game play

[slow flame]

I didn’t know that was thing… 😦 now I feel stupid

[clear kindle]

nah, you're relatively new, right? a lot of players don't know about spampot, it's why it's a big thing in the underground if you get the wrong player group

[neat vortex]

Literally every single time I am in the Underground playing hotpot, I see some variation of "what is spampot?" in the chat, so no worries :)

[eternal ruin]

Fresh crowd, fresh suckers. That's usually why you'll see gold bots, alas.

but to be fair I sparingly saw them if at all. I don't see the game being in a spot that really needs that kind of attention as of yet.

[hazy whale]

Do I turn tomatoes into seeds or preserve? Which is more worth

[supple stone]

Preserves

[supple stone]

Actually already made this one a little more symmetrical (little things haha), but still needing 4 weedblock fert for 100% weed cover (and 6 harvest boost)
And, as part of that, the tomato was naturally protected =3
https://palia-garden-planner.vercel.app/?layout=v0.4_D-111-111-111_CR-O.HBkTTBtBtPBtBt-PBk.WPAAAAAA-TBkO.HBtBtTBtBtP-O.HTBkBkPOBtBtB-AAATP.WTBTB-BkTO.HOPBkBBtBt-BtBtBTBkBtP.HOBt-BBk.WBBtTBtBtP.WBt-BBtBtBtBkTBtOP.H_D180GtL25Cr0.BkS4-TP2-OP2-PS3-BtS15-BP2-AP2

[neat vortex]

See above

If you would rather avoid store-bought fertilizer, but don't mind making and using harvest boost, there are other layouts that have 4 bushes... maybe more? I'll check; Tarina's may be a reasonable option

Hm, nope, misremembered; Tarina's wacky "at least 2 of everything" (so, 8 bushes) layout wasn't fully AFK for the non-multitile crops

[supple stone]

At least 4 weedblock fertiliser has decent potential to not screw up the garden if you forget about it
Any idea what the chance for weeds spawning is actually?

(And, uh, obligatory thanks to Duhscape's lazy beans layout for inspiring half of that layout just posted)

[neat vortex]

Arenvanya's guide may have more insight, but I'm not sure. I know the maximum number that can spawn is 9.

...4 might be the maximum that can show up at once?

I'm really not certain, though

[supple stone]

No problem! Just asked on the off chance you would know.
I'll check out the guide later when back at my PC

[neat vortex]

LOL I completely forgot I'd made this one for a friend who uses a nonstandard garden layout and needed to grow a ton of blueberries. It's 100% weed/water (AFK) without any fertilizer, 6 bushes (beans, in this case). It uses QUITE a lot of harvest boost fertilizer (41 fertilizer per growth tick), but zero store-bought fert.
https://palia-garden-planner.vercel.app/?layout=v0.4_D-111-101-101-101_CR-O.HBkTPBt.HBt.HTBt.HBt.H-P.HTO.HBkR.HBkOTP-TPO.HBt.HBt.HBkBt.HBt.HT-OBkPBt.HBt.HTBt.HBt.HO-OBkPTBt.HBt.HPBt.HBt.H-BkPBk.HOTO.HBt.HBt.HT-O.HTOBk.HPBkTBt.HBt.H-Bt.HBt.HPBkOBk.HT.HP.HT.H-PBt.HBt.HBk.HOBkT.HP.HT.H_D180GtL25

[steep sage]

Are fertilizers only good for a day? So if I apply harvestboost once a day, it will yield me more crops than applying it only on the first day?

[supple stone]

Fertilisers only give their effect for 1 day, correct.
Harvest boost buff is either you get the bonus 50% yield or you don't. Your chance of getting it is how many days the crop had the buff since planting or the previous harvest if its a regrowing crop.
The buff can be present from either adjacent crops or fertiliser, but there is no benefit to both at the same time

So if you have a potato that takes 5 days to grow, you and you harvest boost it for 3, 60% chance you will get the bonus potatoes when harvesting

[steep sage]

Thank you!