#elder-scrolls-lore

1 messages · Page 39 of 1

sand flume
#

and immense knowledge of necromancy

keen turtle
#

if Vestarie was a lich she would be the 2nd to successfully become a living lich like Manimarco himself

sand flume
#

we actually have many liches

timber bough
#

she... is

#

i dont even get what you're trying to argue anymore, vestarie is a lich and that's it

keen turtle
#

because by the 2nd era Manimarco was a living lich meaning he was a lich while still being technically alive physically

#

which never got explained

sand flume
#

manni is undead

keen turtle
#

kinda

uncut hatch
#

Interpellation between the planes? Anything could happen with a person like Mannimarco

keen turtle
#

his a living lich which means while still "alive" his body is closer to being dead, its why he hasn't rotten away to what most liches are

#

and why he still retains his twisted morality

#

the real question is how he achived this and don't say moisturizer

uncut hatch
#

Hahaha

keen turtle
#

seriously the moisturizer thing was a meme a while ago when it came to mannimarco being a lich

uncut hatch
#

Was this ESO?

#

I never played the MMO but I saw him in the hype pics

keen turtle
#

and by ESO he had been a lich for 300 years

#

roughly around the same time as the mages guild has been in opperation

#

also give props to vanus galarion he's around 1200 years old and doesn't look older then 100

#

this is a rough estiment because its never fleshed out how long ago he was born, only that he spent roughly 500 years as a psijic

#

it is stated he was born in the 1st era

uncut hatch
#

Damn, I hope I look that good when I'm his age!

keen turtle
#

well yeah though i don't like his age being reduced by a retcon in ESO

#

still for a mage who's 300+ he does look good

#

even if he does have a arrogant side and claims himself as "the great mage"

uncut hatch
#

Anyway - I will try to explain away Mannimarco's skin...

keen turtle
#

me i'm like "ok ok plz you're like what in your late 300s and you still look young'

uncut hatch
#

haha

keen turtle
#

not 100% undead

#

its kind of hard to quantify how he did it

uncut hatch
#

just stasis, huh?

keen turtle
uncut hatch
#

Just verging upon dying yet being alive in a frozen moment captured by a dark spell...

keen turtle
#

just dead enough to be a lich

uncut hatch
#

Does lichery require a spell or sacrifice or something?

keen turtle
#

because he can heal his physical wounds so he must be somewhat alive but not alive enough to heal

uncut hatch
#

Bingo that must be the answer

keen turtle
# uncut hatch Does lichery require a spell or sacrifice or something?

to be a lich you need prep an item for a phylactery, then you must mark your phylactery through sacrifices which often involve slow death and removal of organs such as eyes, heart, lungs or even slow bleed of people, this taints the object with pain which darkens the magicka within it so it will accept the enchantments, then all you need to do is hold onto it and let your soul enter it if the enchantments are correct and its propperly marked by pain and suffering, then once your soul enters it you kill yourself and then you rise as a lich

#

this can also work if a soul is found fast enough to be pulled into a phylactery as was done for Namon Adameri in ESO

#

another way is by putting your soul into a phylactery and then undergo the rites to become a draugr

#

since the dragon priests are all liches

keen turtle
uncut hatch
#

Jeez, this puts the Mannimarco I remember (the Daggerfall one) in a new light

keen turtle
#

the dragon priests phylactery is their dragon masks, however by taking the masks the dovahkiin breaks the teather

uncut hatch
#

(tether?)

keen turtle
#

so they can't reform from their ashes

keen turtle
# uncut hatch (tether?)

yes their link to their phylactery, it can be broken by being claimed by another if that person has a powerful enough to claim it

uncut hatch
#

Why do people become liches in ES?

#

Seems quite a high risk activity

timber bough
#

immortality

uncut hatch
#

Ah I know it's immortality but immortality for what purpose?

#

Surely there's other means to be immortal

timber bough
#

there are, but i guess being a lich is the most fool-proof way of being immortal short of being a god

#

there's people like Divayth Fyr who are extremely powerful wizards and put their power into longevity, but aren't strictly immortal

#

there's vampires who are immortal but with the drawback that they have to feed on blood regularly, lack of blood likely causes insanity and they're effectively restricted to roaming the world at night

#

corprus is a similar case to vampirism, mostly, except some people can seemingly survive it long-term without insanity (e.g. Yagrum Bagarn)

uncut hatch
#

So - God is the rarest means to be immortal?

keen turtle
#

unfortunatly liches aren't 100% immortal because all it takes is someone with a powerful soul to kill a lich to server their tether to their phylactery if that person is strong enough

#

this is why in ES we can perma kill liches with ease

timber bough
keen turtle
#

they're tied fundementally to their relics they left on mundus which holds their original power and stablize mundus within the aurabis and if an aedra is slain it is for good

#

even the deadra are not immortal

#

take them to a realm that is not their own and they can perma die, there's even realms in oblivion that if a daedra is taken to they can perma die if that realm is forign enough in its rules to prevent the daedra's vestage from reforming

#

the only beings that know limited immortality are the deadric princes and princesses

uncut hatch
#

What's beyond death in lore?

#

I'm thinking of things like Hermaeus Mora

keen turtle
pastel sorrel
# keen turtle take them to a realm that is not their own and they can perma die, there's even ...

It's alleged that the aedra are mortal, it remains to be seen. As for the daedra, the hypothesis is specifically taking them out to Aetherius and killing them, since they'll be cut off from the Oblivion-specific chaotic creatia they usually utilize for reforming, but that hasn't been tested as far as anyone knows, or if it has the results haven't been made known. It's nothing to do with "foreign realms of Oblivion", they're still realms of Oblivion.

keen turtle
#

as long as the realm is forign to oblivion or mundus

pastel sorrel
#

Jone and Jode are still well within reach of Oblivion, and your idea isn't supported to begin with as we've killed many daedra that've directly manifested on Nirn and still were able to reform.

uncut hatch
pastel sorrel
#

The realm has to be entirely cut off from chaotic creatia

#

which so far is only Aetherius, being the source for the creatia that's normally converted afterwards

#

Aetherius is explicitly the only place mentioned in the hypothesis, which makes sense since it's the only one that would work for that that we know of.

keen turtle
pastel sorrel
#

Oblivion is literally right there, you're forgetting how much the Mundus borders it

keen turtle
#

its like this, oblivion and mundus are planets in an aurabis right?

pastel sorrel
#

no

keen turtle
#

but the realm of june and jode exist outside conventional space and time in its own pocket universe

pastel sorrel
#

one sec, getting food

uncut hatch
timber bough
#

Dreamsleeve is sorta the soul recycling plant

uncut hatch
#

(as Mankor Camoran insinuates?)

keen turtle
keen turtle
pastel sorrel
#

alright so

uncut hatch
keen turtle
#

in fact there has been a few artifacts from the void that has popped up over the eras

#

specifically void stones and the blade of woe both came from the void

#

but also namira has a weird connection to the void and sithis that many don't even know

pastel sorrel
# keen turtle its like this, oblivion and mundus are planets in an aurabis right?

No. I'm not sure where you're getting this idea from. Mundus, Oblivion, etc. are all realms of the Aurbis. The Mundus contains Nirn, and to an extent the aedric planes in orbit we perceive as planets and the moons. The Mundus is situated between Oblivion and Aetherius; the night sky is Oblivion, we get a much more overt view of Oblivion, with the stars and sun being our typically pinprick view into Aetherius. Practically speaking, while Aetherius might potentially be reachable within Nirn, going outwards it's all just Oblivion once you leave the Mundus.

keen turtle
#

i suspect maybe namira maybe worshiping sithis in her own way

uncut hatch
pastel sorrel
#

The planes of Oblivion are various regions within Oblivion, the place has a "topography" of sorts but that's another conversation.

keen turtle
pastel sorrel
keen turtle
#

because if you play ESO and play the AD you'll see that the realm of june and Jode are not apart of the aurbis

uncut hatch
#

Anybody daring to explore outside both Mundus and Oblivion as a mortal so far?

keen turtle
#

they exist in their own pocket realms

#

thats forign to aurbis

#

but shaped by expeirences in the aurbis by the people who go there

uncut hatch
#

Not through special circumstances but through bloody-mindness?

timber bough
#

the aurbis is the entire universe of TES

keen turtle
#

see while each realm in aurbis has its own atmosphere the stars are all the same

pastel sorrel
#

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mean the Mundus, not the Aurbis, but that's still incorrect anyway to consider it a separate thing. I have in fact played ESO, i can guarantee you i'm one of the most lore-versed people in this entire channel.

keen turtle
#

but if in the realm of june and jode the stars are so forign its crazy

pastel sorrel
#

and the Sunbirds of Alinor. Neither of which have much lore yet.

keen turtle
uncut hatch
pastel sorrel
keen turtle
#

its supposed to depict all realms in aurbis

#

the reason why is because the realms exist in a void where the Lorkahn's divine soul used to be, the realm exists but outside conventional space and time, it both exists yet it shouldnt

#

it is its own space and time

pastel sorrel
# keen turtle its supposed to depict all realms in aurbis

Again, Mundus, not the whole Aurbis. And if you mean the orreries, i'm not sure which ones you've been looking at, because the moons are explicitly in all the orreries we've seen so far, at least past TESA: Redguard since it's hard for me to parse what's going on in that one right now

#

Bare minimum they're in the TES4 and Legends orreries

keen turtle
pastel sorrel
#

Mundus

keen turtle
#

said soul lies in the void not on mundus

pastel sorrel
#

the Aurbis is the entire universe. You're already not paying attention to the lore or what i'm saying in general.

keen turtle
#

if it was a part of mundus you'd see the same sky as if standing anywhere on tamriel

pastel sorrel
#

... You do, though

keen turtle
pastel sorrel
#

there isn't a "solar system"

timber bough
pastel sorrel
#

i'm not sure where you've gotten this idea of the cosmology from

#

the Aurbis is the entire universe, all of known existence. The interplay of Anu and Padomay.

keen turtle
#

there's mundus then worlds for each divine as depicted by the occulori in the imperial city

pastel sorrel
#

You mean the orrery in the university?

keen turtle
#

yes that

pastel sorrel
#

i'm about to blow your mind my dude

keen turtle
#

then 16 worlds one for each daedra prince

pastel sorrel
#

Every one of those bodies is named.

keen turtle
#

yes i've seen that

pastel sorrel
#

Secunda and Masser are the moons. Do you not realize they have multiple names?

keen turtle
#

and yet it doesn't show the realms of june and jode which aren't inside the moons

uncut hatch
#

So Nirn is where Tamriel is resided?

pastel sorrel
#

Jone and Jode are the moons

keen turtle
#

you're mistaking it for jodes core which are on the moons

timber bough
keen turtle
pastel sorrel
#

Jone and Jode are the moons. They're Aldmeri names for what more mannish cultures typically call Masser and Secunda

#

the realms are not separate, they are the realms

uncut hatch
pastel sorrel
#

we perceive them as planets and moons because we literally can't process their true forms. They're compromises

pastel sorrel
keen turtle
uncut hatch
#

So - if the lore is true that Mannimarco turned into a moon then where is his moon?

keen turtle
#

now a realm inside a soul

pastel sorrel
#

inside the corpse of Lorkhan

timber bough
keen turtle
#

yes but lorkhan isn't tethered to mundus

pastel sorrel
#

yes he is

#

he's actually among the most tethered of them all

timber bough
#

His heart's straight up stuck on Nirn trel

uncut hatch
#

Ha

keen turtle
#

and the rules of the daedra specify oblivion and mundus but can permenetly die in forign realms which inludes the realm of june and jode because the realm inside lorkhan is both there and isn't there it defies existence

pastel sorrel
#

He was torn apart, his corpse cast into the sky as bound as the other gods, his heart launched away to impact in the earth, his divine spark imbued straight into the world

uncut hatch
keen turtle
pastel sorrel
#

Lorkhan is near-Earthbone levels of being part of the Mundus

#

He endures, even manifests as incarnations, but he's stuck here.

keen turtle
pastel sorrel
#

You literally did not read what i said beyond the word "Earthbone"

uncut hatch
timber bough
#

man i kinda want to see whatever lore vids youve been watching lmao

pastel sorrel
#

Re-read what i said, and then please explain to me where i said he was an Ehlnofey.

keen turtle
pastel sorrel
#

No they don't, and no it isn't.

timber bough
pastel sorrel
#

They still have access to the chaotic creatia, otherwise daedra we kill on Nirn would also be screwed.

uncut hatch
keen turtle
pastel sorrel
#

Again, you are very clearly somewhat new to the lore, trying to explain basic stuff to me who's been a highly-versed lorebeard for years.

timber bough
keen turtle
#

now i'm heading to bed

pastel sorrel
#

This is surface-level knowledge.

keen turtle
#

because some realms a daedra's vestage acts differently

#

or destroyed by the realm itself

uncut hatch
pastel sorrel
#

The realms of the moons are the moons, you're making a distinction that does not exist and is unsupported. The daedra are not in inhospitable territory beyond whatever aedric pushback there might be for them being in the neighbourhood. The only suggested place for killing them in the hypothesis is Aetherius, which is ostensibly entirely cut off from the chaotic creatia they normally need to reform.

timber bough
# uncut hatch Yeah but all the same - I know what little lore from what I've played lol

jokes aside that's totally fine. you don't need to be a loremaster to enjoy TES, the games do a good enough job of conveying what lore you need to understand the world and the conflicts they show. being a loremaster is just an additional step for people who like to read more into the world and maybe even add to it via worldbuilding through their own works like mods or stuff

pastel sorrel
#

@keen turtle You should familiarize yourself with the Dunning-Kruger effect before your next lore discussion. You're not nearly as versed as you seem to think, and you're making claims that are flatly contradicted by established lore. I'm just gonna be perfectly blunt with you about that. I hope you can come to learn the lore better and have much better discussions in the future, but unless you're willing to learn, you'll only find friction with anyone who knows the lore.

uncut hatch
timber bough
#

i enjoyed TES lore a lot for a long time and still do, but it's not really my go to staple of worldbuilding, partly because a lot of it is written in a needlessly convoluted way

uncut hatch
#

And I might well write some fanfic out of this research and this gem absorbing shtick :)

timber bough
#

i should note that this is mainly the "exotic" lore by the hands of MK

pastel sorrel
#

And that's a heavy criticism i'll always have. I like F3 and 4 and such, but they did not treat Fallout's setting with the respect it deserved. They're a flanderized version of the series and the actually semi-realistic depiction the originals had.

uncut hatch
timber bough
#

fighting the urge to go on a massive rant about fallout lore rn

#

this isn't the channel for it anyway

uncut hatch
#

I like Fallout a lot but I like the escapism of ES lore better

pastel sorrel
#

Fallout 4 has Nirnroots, clearly Fallout lore is TES lore

uncut hatch
#

Haha

pastel sorrel
#

god when's the last time someone made the "what if TES is just Fallout in the future" bad meme in here

timber bough
#

I love how back in the day of FO4's release, I saw people asking over and over if Fallout is just the TES world set way back in the past, and each time you have to explain to them that Earth doesn't have two moons

pastel sorrel
#

boom

uncut hatch
pastel sorrel
#

Also ask them "you do realize Fallout was and still is an entirely separate IP before Bethesda acquired it right"

uncut hatch
#

Yeah i played the original Fallout back in the day

pastel sorrel
#

and also "you do realize Bethesda didn't make the first 4 games before Fallout 3 right"

uncut hatch
#

I am aware of that yes

pastel sorrel
#

i'm not talking to about you :v

uncut hatch
#

Sorry!

pastel sorrel
#

i feel like there's probably an entire generation that doesn't realize Fallout wasn't originally Bethesda's because they've only ever played 3 onwards.

#

anyways the moons are just Dibella mooning us, CMV.

uncut hatch
#

Yeah it was an odd experience playing 3 haha (and end of Fallout and back to ES lore)

timber bough
pastel sorrel
#

unless they cut off his ass too

uncut hatch
#

Somebody oughta arrest that dude

timber bough
uncut hatch
#

Explains a lot of things

timber bough
#

Oh god that kinda fits with the Imperial City island

pastel sorrel
timber bough
#

High level lore ™️

uncut hatch
#

🤣

timber bough
#

C0DA makes it canon

pastel sorrel
#

This kind of moth-talk is why my lorebeard is so girthy.

#

Nobody can handle the monkey truth.

timber bough
#

Turns out the towers are just pimples

uncut hatch
#

and the hair are the caves?

pastel sorrel
#

they tore out his heart, wonder if they tore out his kidneys too to toss away. Unprocessed Lorkhan pee, a valuable commodity to rival ebony.

timber bough
#

i hate tes lore

pastel sorrel
#

Hence their connection to the moons.

#

Moon sugar is just dandruff.

uncut hatch
#

Anyway - onto the more salubrious lore...

#

hahaha though

#

Anyway. Why is Mara is connected with marriage?

#

I have to consider her when I marry somebody in Skyrim

#

Don't remember anything in earlier games to connect to Mara as that

timber bough
#

They probably just wanted an easy way to script marriages and figured wearing a special amulet does the trick

uncut hatch
#

Nothing more than that?

#

Seems like a job for fanfiction then

timber bough
#

She is the goddess of love, but I doubt all marriages in TES have to be done under her name

floral light
#

Yeah i would 100% buy that the mara amulet wedding thing isn't really canon and just a meta way to handle the marriages, especially since we see tons of examples of what appear to be way more normal relationships,

uncut hatch
#

More strictly speaking how does Dibella and Mara interact in the wider lore of ES?

#

Because they do occupy different spheres

#

But are quite similar

floral light
#

Mara appears to be more of a niced up hera expy while Dibs is a fairly generic Aphrodite expy,

#

it's always important to remember the Aedra haven't gotten the same character development as the Daedra so are mostly still bland copies of the usual gods,

uncut hatch
floral light
#

That said Mara sometimes appears to have some combative elements, if the writing keeps improving and incorporating stuff from real religious evolutions ect, i wouldn't be shocked to learn she's supposed to be a warrior goddess and the whole love thing was kinda foisted on her by the later empires to accommodate the sexist views of 2nd-3rd era cyrodilic breton and Nordic cultures, who moved her fighting aspect to the god stendarr in order to man him up for them, and that's why the vigilants suck at their jobs, they are worshoping a god of healers and marrige while the goddess of kicking evil's butt is stuck officiating marriages, like someday someone is going to realize Stedarr's hammer is the Maul of Mara and it's suddenly going to stop weighing so much because she's not angry at people for giving that wishy washy hippie her job,

uncut hatch
#

Mara is actually the goddess of illusions because marriage isn’t real kappa

floral light
#

Actually the only magics i have seen her connected too is Restoration and i think Fire, but the only one i can think of with that off the top of my head is Mara's Wrath,

quartz shuttle
#

Mara is also Kyne's Handmaiden, which in Nordic faith would probably involve some sort of combative role, similar to a Squire.

floral light
#

Nah Handmaiden is a very non combative role, again i assume she is possibly meant to be the goddess of Paladins and knights but the post Allesian degeneration of human views on women saw her made into the god of marriage and healing while the actual god of those things had them assigned to him to make him more manly to accommodate those views, i do wonder what caused these changes to occur because actual history seems to have paited Allessa as the real deal for all the things monsters Like Tiber claim to be, an actual diplomat and hero who freed her people without throwing her morals away, the her name was hijacked for for anti elven racists and she got waifuized by the later empires so that soft egoed boys like Tiber wouldn't feel threatened by being outshined by her,

uncut hatch
#

Imagine stendarr being the marriage dude. He’s the priest man Pogchamp

uncut hatch
#

In what games did an actual Elder Scroll appear?

timber bough
#

oblivion, skyrim and eso iirc

dusky scaffold
#

Blades, too

uncut hatch
#

Interesting - I don't remember any of that tbh

#

You'd think they'd be more earthshaking than that

dusky scaffold
#

They have great power - but that power is hard to access

timber bough
#

the oblivion one is locked off to the Thieves Guild questline

dusky scaffold
#

also, that power is mostly prophetic

uncut hatch
dusky scaffold
#

Oblivion: Thieves Guild Questline
Skyrim: Main Quest and Dawnguard
ESO: PvP and White-Gold Tower group dungeon
Blades: Main Quest

uncut hatch
#

All right so it wasn't in any of the truly classic games?

timber bough
#

nope, oblivion is the first time one appeared

uncut hatch
#

Interesting so I have more reason to play that one then

dusky scaffold
#

In Arena the phrase didn'T mean anything

#

which one?

uncut hatch
#

Oblivion

#

It's the only ES game I can immediately access other than Morrowind atm

dusky scaffold
#

there's free versions of Arena and Daggerfall out there

uncut hatch
#

I'm more intent on Daggerfall cause I haven't played it since 1996/7 than Arena though do you recommend Arena?

#

Arena is the only main ES title I haven't played

#

Cos at the time I never had the chance

dusky scaffold
#

I personally do not - but then again, I wouldn't recommend daggerfall to anyone but a diehard fan.
I played Daggerfall a few years back (6, I think), and it was ... hard

#

never again xD

uncut hatch
#

I managed to reach the end with my friends lol

#

(it was a collective effort lol)

dusky scaffold
#

I looked stuff up on the UESP

uncut hatch
#

It was an utterly incredible experience

#

I never had anything like that experience again

dusky scaffold
#

oh, speaking of friends, battlespire has a multiplayer mode - both coop and versus
(although coop disables dialogue, which takes most of the fun from the story, and makes level 3 a lot harder)

uncut hatch
#

Cause it was my best experience with other video game players in my life

#

That never happened like that again

dusky scaffold
uncut hatch
#

And even now I haven't been able to forget the Mantellan Crux

#

It was so... unlike anything in ES games that I doubt that it would be replicated nowadays

dusky scaffold
#

I still wonder what Sheogorath was doing there

uncut hatch
#

He was chilling around lol

dusky scaffold
uncut hatch
#

Just gave us Jabberwocky and let us do our thing

#

Some of the time we did get some arguments as to what to do lol

#

As we punched around on the poor old computer keyboard lol

dusky scaffold
#

I was pretty much at the end of my patience, and just wanted it to end

uncut hatch
dusky scaffold
#

soloing is better, as you get all the dialogue

uncut hatch
#

I have a feeling it'll be a whole new game to me after all that time

#

(Daggerfall)

uncut hatch
#

And it was more fun with others

dusky scaffold
#

I'm civilised, too, but I definetly wasn't a kid any more xD

#

I must've been... 24?

uncut hatch
#

Plus we were pretty new to epic video games at the time

#

So we had no preconceptions except for myself who was reading Lord of the Rings at the time

uncut hatch
#

lol

#

It was a pretty unique time tbh

dusky scaffold
#

I had played Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim before
just wanted to experience Daggerfall's Story and Lore for myself

uncut hatch
#

Wow I started before you despite being younger lol

#

I'm now 33

#

Ooops

uncut hatch
#

Are you ok @dusky scaffold ?

dusky scaffold
#

oh, yes, yes I am
I was just occupied somewhere else 🙂

uncut hatch
#

ah ok!

dusky scaffold
uncut hatch
#

My fav titles are either Morrowind or Oblivion

#

With a sprinkling of Skyrim

#

If I get Daggerfall Unity, then it may well be a truly serious competition

neat ruin
#

Ok so we're here

thick plinth
neat ruin
#

@uncut hatch when you say elder scroll appearance, you mean actually seeing an Elder Scroll in the game, or at the end cutscene?

timber bough
#

Mine's solidly Skyrim

uncut hatch
neat ruin
thick plinth
uncut hatch
thick plinth
#

Just seeing an Elder Scroll at all in the game. There's art of them for Daggerfall but otherwise they simply weren't really a known concept for BGS until Oblivion

neat ruin
#

I've never seen an Elder Scroll in it before and I never will

#

Reason?

#

Disk write errors

#

My game is missing both Oblivion.exe and the launcher 😦

#

I guess it's Skyrim time Shout

uncut hatch
#

Hahaha ok - I was wondering if there was ever a scroll - in a way it's a justification for me to find a reason to replay a game

timber bough
uncut hatch
#

I've never seen one

uncut hatch
#

I like Oblivion because it's charmingly goofy and mellow

dusky scaffold
#

I've seen lots

neat ruin
dusky scaffold
#

(given that I've broken into the Elder Scrolls library...)

uncut hatch
#

I don't want to repeat myself though yeah Daggerfall is my first TES game. My first solo TES game was Morrowind

neat ruin
#

Where can you find Elder Scrolls in Skyrim?

uncut hatch
#

I dunno frankly

timber bough
uncut hatch
#

I've never seen one

neat ruin
timber bough
#

Tower of Mzark

neat ruin
uncut hatch
neat ruin
#

So it's actually part of the story to find a scroll?

timber bough
#

yep

uncut hatch
#

Of all TES games, Skyrim is the longest one I've played

#

It's a 9 years journey

neat ruin
uncut hatch
#

And I've yet to reach the end

neat ruin
#

Like actually read the scroll, though it's a bunch of scribbles

uncut hatch
#

I imagine it's the traditional Lovecraft setup

timber bough
uncut hatch
#

Read the book, go mad and see squids everywhere

neat ruin
sharp lantern
#

The Dragonborn is only able to ''read'' it in certain parts of the map (depending on the Scroll) and then sees visions. But by default, all you see is odd letterings and a blur.

neat ruin
#

Also, I thought you died?

uncut hatch
#

(You need the Aeneid by Virgil for this trick)

sharp lantern
uncut hatch
#

Ages ago in the middle ages, the fad was for people to use The Aeneid as a fortune book

neat ruin
uncut hatch
#

and it did make an appearance with the Sibylline Books in Ancient Rome

uncut hatch
neat ruin
#

Bc if its irl I feel stupid

uncut hatch
neat ruin
uncut hatch
neat ruin
uncut hatch
#

I'm pretty unversed in ES lore so I'm the stupid one here

#

So don't worry

uncut hatch
#

Anyway - back to the lore

neat ruin
#

Yeah

#

So the Elder Scrolls are like my brain when I do something cringy

#

It archives every bit of it for all of time

dusky scaffold
#

good thing that both are hard to read

neat ruin
#

Every time i think of a cringy thing I did I feel like I'm going insane

#

Wait

#

I just had a thought

dusky scaffold
neat ruin
#

Is there any official hero of the games?

#

Like the person who gets recorded in the Scrolls as hero

dusky scaffold
#

not for the main games, no

#

in Redguard, you are always Cyrus

#

but all Elder Scrolls games are generally designed in a way that they don't force the previous player characters down a specific path you might not have taken

#

the events will most likely have happened regardless, but it is not clear if the player character did it or someone else

neat ruin
#

So you make your own lore

#

But things you had no effect on is set in stone

dusky scaffold
#

depends on your definition of "lore"

desert kayak
#

Didn't Bethesda say that the Skyrim guild missions (Dark Brotherhood, Mage's College, Companions) all happened canonically?

neat ruin
dusky scaffold
#

well, all quests did happen
the question is who did those things

desert kayak
#

I wish Bethesda had a system like Dragon Age, where you choose which events happened in your game

#

Because I always destroy the Dark Brotherhood

dusky scaffold
#

well, the brotherhood gets mostly destroyed either way, and a part of it will likely survive either way

#

notice how babette isn't there when you destroy the DB?

neat ruin
#

And Martin did say at the end of Oblivion that you write the next Elder Scroll, implying that whatever you do, it's your version of the canon, and other players actions are there canon, but the lore set in stone is never changed

desert kayak
#

Well yeah, but if you destroy the Brotherhood, then the Emperor doesn't get assassinated (at least not by them)

quartz shuttle
neat ruin
desert kayak
#

Skyrim

quartz shuttle
#

It just means different circumstances.

desert kayak
#

True enough I guess

neat ruin
desert kayak
#

Dark Brotherhood questline

neat ruin
quartz shuttle
#

Bear in mind, Dragon Age and Mass Effect showed me that we can't handle that sort of choice driven narrative.

desert kayak
#

How so?

dusky scaffold
quartz shuttle
#

Inquisition had to resort to a literal minigame recap just to let you sort out the decusions, and ME3 relegated 90% of the choices tou had made to a number on a spreadsheet

neat ruin
#

If there's one thing that is unsure about the TES universe is did the Oblivion Gates open in other provinces? I don't know if you can close them in any other game but I never see anyone mention them

desert kayak
#

The Argonians even counter-invaded iirc

neat ruin
#

But they only shut after Mehrunes Dagon is defeated aren't they

dusky scaffold
#

yes

#

well, the whole invasion thing shut down then
the individual gates could be closed by anyone else who also managed to snatch the sigil stones

#

I think they said that the gates in black marsh were even closed by the dagonists themselves to stop the argonian invasion xD

quartz shuttle
#

Maybe

mellow grotto
#

I have a theory that the Thalmor intentionally used the oblivion crisis to get the daedra to topple the crystal tower in Summerset Isles.

quartz shuttle
#

Bear in mind, the source for that is a rather nationalistic young Argonian, 30 yeard after the fact

neat ruin
desert kayak
#

I can see your point, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is no real choice in the questlines, like, as you guys said, if you choose to destroy the brotherhood, a few members still survive and could assassinate the emperor, in the Companions questline, you don't really get a choice in becoming a werewolf or not, in the main questline you have to resort to mods to tell the blades to back off and accept Paarthurnax

quartz shuttle
#

The Argonians certainly made efforts to repel the Dagonites, but we don't know actual details of their efforts

#

Choice is overrated, and almost always diminishes the story being told.

neat ruin
dusky scaffold
#

well, in the main questline, you can choose to kill partysnacks or not

desert kayak
#

Not really

#

The Blades tell you to kill Paarthurnax, and you decide not to kill him, but the quest isn't completed, because the Blades still demand that you kill Paarthy

quartz shuttle
#

The way TES has traditionally approached Choice is by presenting you with a bunch of different largely independent storylines, and letting you choose which ones you want to engage.

#

The stories themselves don't habe choices, but which ones you decide to do for what character ARE a choice

uncut hatch
sand flume
#

so its absolutely a choice

desert kayak
#

That's fair, I guess DA and ES are just different kind of games

#

Though it's a bummer some shout words are locked behind quests, like Fire Breath

uncut hatch
#

I did reach Paarthurnox but never got around to killing him

quartz shuttle
#

Yeah, I'm not saying the overall approach can't be inproved, but to date... i have yet to play a game which succeeds in pulling off the Choice thing.

uncut hatch
#

Not because I feel scared but because I just like gilding the lily in Skyrim

dusky scaffold
#

I actually like all the little differnces your choices make in Dragon Age 2, for example

desert kayak
#

Anyway, what's the lore reason on Mysticism not being a school of magic in Skyrim?

dusky scaffold
#

the mages guild decided it was no longer needed

#

all the schools are just arbitrary constructs used by the mages guild (and other organisations) to ease the teachign of magic

mellow grotto
#

The mages guild was disbanded, I think the college of winterhold don't consider mysticism as a school.

dusky scaffold
#

or, anyone did consider it no longer a school of magic

quartz shuttle
mellow grotto
#

I don't even know what mysticism is as a concept other than the Psijic order vaguely calls it "the old way". It might be psionics, it might be not, I really don't know.

dusky scaffold
uncut hatch
#

bring back thaumaturgy!

dusky scaffold
#

The art has been described as allowing a mage "to alter the nature of magic itself"[2] and as involving "the manipulation of magical forces and boundaries to bypass the structures and limitations of the physical world."[3]

mellow grotto
#

That sounds too much like Alteration, that might be the reason why Bethesda scrapped it.

desert kayak
#

Yeah

#

Also light magic should be illusion, not alteration right?

#

Like Magelight and Candlelight

uncut hatch
#

depends

#

are you actually generating light or is your mind just seeing that theres a light following you around?

desert kayak
#

Huh

uncut hatch
#

thats why theres a fine lining with alteration and illusion cause are you just making people think something or is it actually different now

quartz shuttle
#

Mysticism was basically just a holdover from Pre-Schools concepts. All Magic is Mysticism

#

The Schools themselves are artificial constructs for ease kf education anyeay

mellow grotto
#

Figured as much, Mysticism always felt more like a kitchen sink school of magic for any kind of spell mages couldn't define in a specific school.

quartz shuttle
#

Yeah. IF it were to come back, I'd like to see it focused more on Souls

mellow grotto
#

If that's the case, they may as well just make necromancy its own school of magic.

quartz shuttle
#

So, Soul Trap, Astral Projection, maybe some sort of stun where you temporarily sever a targets soul

floral light
#

I belive the logic about how split up magic used to be was to make it harder for mages to become the OP monsters they were in table top RPGs of the times, as magic has lost more and more power and utitlity over the course of the series instead they have had to consolodate it more and more to make individual schools more worth while while shuffleing them around to limit the number you have to elvel up to gain acess to certain utilities,

quartz shuttle
#

As for Necromancy... there's really 2 types of it in TES. Just stuffjng a Daedra into a meat suit, or actually utilising soul energies to fuel your own existence

topaz dome
#

According to UESP: "There are indications in the data files that at one point in the game's development, Mysticism would have been present as a school in place of Illusion. This is evidenced by an unused texture file containing names of all of the skills, in which Mysticism is present instead of Illusion, as well as the hardcoded order of Actor Values in the Creation Kit, in which Illusion is listed under "M" where Mysticism would go."

quartz shuttle
#

Huh, did not know that

floral light
#

Makes sense really, Illusions always been kind of weird since the effect most people care about from it seem to not work the way the school is supposed too,

uncut hatch
#

mysticism instead of illusion would probably make things less confusing @-@

desert kayak
#

Illusion is basically mind magic right?

uncut hatch
#

yea

mellow grotto
#

It might've truly explained why the Psijic Order was present in Skyrim. Still, It's funny how Bero advocated that Destruction should be merged into Alteration, yet his favored school, Illusion, was almost scrapped and merged with Mysticism. It seems that I was kind of right that Mysticism is supposed to be psionics-themed.

uncut hatch
#

when someone cast invisibility its not that the user turned invisible, its that your brain can't comprehend them anymore and so you cant see them

desert kayak
#

That'd be interesting in the modern days

#

You cast an invisibility spell that makes you invisible to yourself and other living beings, but cameras can still see you

uncut hatch
desert kayak
#

Because you're not bending light around you, you're messing with people's perception of you

rocky lion
#

tes is regressing a bit

gaunt bear
#

Inquisitor Trevelyan: What did I hear? Cyrodiil has been unstable since the Second Era? Time for the Inquisition to begin restoring order there.

rocky lion
#

tech wise

brave shoal
mellow grotto
desert kayak
#

I mean

uncut hatch
floral light
#

Yeah see that's the issue, Illusion effect peoples mind but Invis the main power everyone cares about doesn't work that way, also i imagine Illuins and altertation would have been shuffled around with Mysticism

uncut hatch
#

i dunno what episode that was. its a memory that stuck with me

desert kayak
#

Destruction is one part of alteration

gaunt bear
desert kayak
#

Destruction, transformation, reconstruction, stuff like that

gaunt bear
uncut hatch
#

its that youre creating a element by magic and throwing it at things in a destructive manner

#

maybe destruction should be renamed to something that isn't that straight forward...

mellow grotto
#

Evocation then

desert kayak
#

I mean, the school of Destruction is basically taking magic and applying it to the most offensive manner

#

But yeah, Destruction is not exactly the best name

#

Maybe Battle Magic?

uncut hatch
#

if i light a candle with magic I have to use destruction magic to light the candle @_@

#

i guess it is fading away slightly

desert kayak
#

You could also use flames to light a bonfire and keep yourself warm

#

Maybe Elementalism? Since it basically deals with three elements?

uncut hatch
#

i mean, im not working at bethesda so we can't actually rename the school

#

but maybe thats a better name

mellow grotto
#

I do think Evocation is a good name, it's what D&D defines that kind of directed destructive elemental magic.

desert kayak
#

Evocation sounds like Conjuration

uncut hatch
quartz shuttle
#

Destruction is more how the spells are designed rather than the elements used

#

Something like Rupture, which spontaneously opens would still be destruction

mellow grotto
quartz shuttle
timber bough
#

What resources does eastern Tamriel have beyond Morrowind's ebony, saltrice and kwama? Does Black Marsh's economy base on spice trade, or is it unknown?

quartz shuttle
#

We don't really know much about Blackmarsh's Economy

thick plinth
#

It straight up shows mysticism

#

In like 3 different pics spanning across several years, mysticism was shown XD

#

Sorry for so many pictures, but ye! Illusion is not present, but mysticism is

brave shoal
#

i could imagine black marsh having a market for exotic herb and beast body part for alchemy and magic ritual, maybe leather too? but otherwise i guess argonian economy is mostly about being self sufficient since outsider rarely go to blackmarsh thinking to make money in first place?

thick plinth
timber bough
#

Maybe also wood, depending on if they have the techniques to use jungle wood well for construction

#

Unlike the Bosmer they don't have a green pact, after all

mellow grotto
thick plinth
#

Ye, look at the bottom pic. The race is "Russian", likely as a placeholder XD

desert kayak
#

Comrade Dovahkiin

mellow grotto
#

I like to think the Kamal are the Nirn equivalent of Russians.

floral light
#

Looks like Black Marsh doesn't really have a major economic force, empire tries to make it into a cash crop farming area but it's not suited for it,

timber bough
#

Yeah that's the picture I'm getting of it too

#

Very interesting

quartz shuttle
#

Large swamplands typically have minimal economic value

#

Peat and pitch, being two of the few redily available resources.

mellow grotto
#

I try to imagine what would happen if the Hist settled into a mountainous environment where swampland can't be formed. Since they're created by the Hist to adapt to their environment, maybe Argonians from mountainous Hist are made to be bird-like?

brave shoal
#

i would imagine mountain argonian with bigger claws maybe so they can climb cliff and mountain more easily?

mellow grotto
#

Yeah but since Argonians are reptilian, they're not suited for cold environments. Making mountain Argonians bird-like not only gives them warmth through their feathers, but those feathers can allow them to glide from mountain to mountain using the high winds.

timber bough
#

I dont think the rules of biology really 100% apply to Argonians, atleast lizard biology as we know it irl

#

Otherwise you wouldn't be finding them in Skyrim

brave shoal
#

but again, most argonian in skyrim seem fine despite wearing minimal cloth, so maybe they can live well enough in mountain

#

in fact, beside one argonian dockworker in windhelm, i dont remember seeing argonian really complain about cold ever, starting to think they may be warmblooded but people assume they're cold blooded because lizard (mostly my head canon because i believe its official they're cold blooded but never act like irl reptile who need hours of sunbathing for short burst of activity)

mellow grotto
#

I'm speaking with survival mode mechanics in mind since Argonians gain a weakness to cold in that creation. Besides, what I meant is that Argonians are not suited for cold environments compared to swamplands.

quartz shuttle
#

Reptiles aren't particularly suited to cold environmets compared to swamplands

#

So, the Hist probably would have picked something else as a base

mellow grotto
#

I'm speaking more of the Hist creating an Argonian that's suited for a cold, mountainous environment, which would likely make them bird-like.

brave shoal
#

with the rumors of how hist can change argonian on a whim, they probably can turn them warmblooded if it would help them survive a cold region i think (would be the less weird change among what other thing they did in the past)

quartz shuttle
#

The general asumption is that the Hist picked a local animal and altered them to suit their needs. If they Hist were in a Mountianous environment, they would have simply picked a different animal most likely

brave shoal
#

could be, but argonian work so well for them and they can alter them at will on a need basis, probably will keep what work and adapt them. after all, argonian are known to be very good at adapting thank to the hist and their natural skills

desert kayak
brave shoal
#

yeah but isnt magic very expansive for common man? dont think most civillian can afford having spell cast on them or buying potions in bulk. unless they know magic themselve or have a mage friend willing to help them

desert kayak
#

Enchanted clothes, having a basic heat spell that argonian parents teach their children

#

Honestly, the options are limitless in Tamriel

quartz shuttle
#

Limitless, yes, but are they utilised?

#

We don't really have any references to thermally enchanted cold weather gear.

timber bough
#

Chances are thats more for a lack fo exploration of survival mechanics (until creation club) than anything else

#

I reckon cloaks or similar items could get a frost resistance enchantment in-lore for added usefulness

quartz shuttle
#

I suspect as well, bjt i don't like assuming somethingn exists without evidence either

timber bough
#

Extrapolation is often necessary to fill the gaps, don't be afraid of doing it

#

Just keep it reasonable

quartz shuttle
#

Oh, i extrapolate all the time. I just like to draw the line between what i can see being possible or likely, and what we are told and shown

brave shoal
#

if anyone would master heating cloth enchantement, i would imagine the nords being the one jumping on that first

quartz shuttle
#

The only one we actually hear mention anything like that is a Dunmer farmer outside Windhelm

pastel sorrel
keen turtle
golden sierra
# mellow grotto Yeah but since Argonians are reptilian, they're not suited for cold environments...

re: cold environments (@timber bough and @brave shoal might be interested as well)

In studying the various races of Tamriel, I have found a few strange aberrations. Among the human-shaped, the Argonians may be the most fascinating. They are cold-blooded, in both the physiological and psychological sense, and yet they somehow manage to operate in all climes with the same resilience as mammals. Their preference for sub-tropical and tropical climates notwithstanding, to see an Argonian moving through sub-arctic or arctic regions with the same facility as their mammalian rivals is simply astounding.

  • On Argonians
timber bough
#

Interesting

#

Like I thought, biology doesn't really apply to them

fossil yoke
#

Something something hist tree

mellow grotto
fossil yoke
#

I have a lore question.
Why are Argonians the best?

quartz shuttle
#

The best at what? Working saltrice fields?

golden sierra
quartz shuttle
#

Lets face it, most humans don't function perfectly in comd environments

#

We have to dress warmly

timber bough
#

not really for the same reasons as it would shut down a cold blooded organism

golden sierra
#

hell, the reason warm clothing works is because we generate so much body heat

#

cold-blooded animals don't spend energy to generate heat the way we do. they do generate some, but not nearly as much, so warm clothing wouldn't be nearly as effective for them as it is for us

timber bough
#

^

golden sierra
#

fortunately, Argonians got magic god trees pumping their blood with antifreeze, basically, haha

timber bough
#

warm-blooded animals (including us) don't survive the cold because our bodies shut down part by part in order to save energy trying to keep ourselves warm, and when all that energy is expended, you die

golden sierra
#

mhm

timber bough
#

thats why if you fall into a freezing lake, you'll quickly feel your limbs go numb

golden sierra
#

oof, i said s word. the body starts prioritizing the important stuff: the core, primarily

#

cold-blooded animals just skip that entirely and use the environment for heat regulation instead of energy

#

which is more efficient, but clearly also requires adaptations in behavior - going into cool water when warm, for example

#

that was probably overexplained cuz i have that tendency, will shush now

quartz shuttle
#

So long as Argonians are regularly warming themselves up with an external heat source, they should be able to function.

#

The difference may be as little as an extra hour or two a day having to sit in a heated building.

timber bough
#

probably not

#

we're now discussing how to apply real life biology to a fantasy series so id say we just cut the discussion here and take On Argonians at face value

gaunt bear
#

I’ve got something planned for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction that will attempt to tie the DAI: The Jaws of Hakkon into The Elder Scrolls: Redguard, explain why the Dead Man’s Dread is where it is now, and set up a plot point or two for later:

After the events of Redguard, Cyrus finds a strange Dwemer machine that enables travel between worlds. After bringing it to his ship, one of his crew members activates it by accident, enabling the ship to travel between Thedas and Mundus, because said machine sends them straight to Thedas.

It’s there that Cyrus meets Kordillus Drakon for the first time. It’s thanks to Cyrus, his skill in battle, his crew, and his magic sword, that Kordillus is able to unite Orlais under his rule, while Cyrus develops a reputation as a dependable freelancer. During Kordillus’ campaign, Cyrus meets a Dwemer researching mage who is fascinated by the machine, and (after a minor quest to retrieve a journal from a previously unknown Dwemer ruin in the Frostback Mountains) discovers the “return” feature of the device.

Eventually, during the Second Blight, Kordillus and Cyrus learn of the Jaws of Hakkon and their High Dragon (different from the Dovah). After receiving orders to fight alongside Inquisitor Ameridan, Cyrus, knowing that he will most likely never return, names his successor, bids an emotional farewell to his crew, and heads off to the Frostback Basin.

Fast forward to 9:41 Dragon, when Inquisitor Trevelyan makes his own way to the Frostback Basin, and discovers an Avvar oral legend (Fi: the least reliable form of information retention) about “the Copper warrior whose sword could wield itself”. After investigation, it’s determined that the Warrior is indeed Cyrus the Restless, creating a war table operation to recover his legendary sword and build a shrine over his final stand.

——

Any opinions?

gaunt bear
timber bough
#

my only opinion is that this still isn't a fanfiction discussion channel

uncut hatch
gaunt bear
timber bough
#

ask one of the mods

uncut hatch
#

might as well be

gaunt bear
timber bough
#

modmail ig

quartz shuttle
#

Habe you tried the Discord suggestions tab?

gaunt bear
uncut hatch
gaunt bear
desert kayak
#

So, marrying Serana, terrible thing to do to her (because of what she was subjected as a Daughter of Cold Harbour) or a good thing (getting her to talk about her trauma and helping her)?

dusky scaffold
#

you can't marry her
and if you could, what would that have to do with her coldharbourdaughterism?

quartz shuttle
#

Yeah, if you COULD... well, abused people deserve love too

#

So it depends entirely on the character and the relationship

desert kayak
#

I mostly try to play lawful or neutral good characters, so if I could marry her, I would try to get her to talk about her trauma and help her, then I would even begin to think about getting into a relationship with her, Serana needs serious help

obtuse summit
#

she won't marry you but she already love you, she just don't want to be tied on marriage bond because her parent was bad example for marriage (un)life lol.

brisk perch
#

There are mods that enable marriage with Serana, but those are not canon

long burrow
#

wouldnt Serana become a widow since she can virtually live forever while the Dragonborn can't?

obtuse summit
#

if dragonborn become vampire, they can live forever.

#

don't forget she can cure herself too.

long burrow
#

I suppose so

obtuse summit
#

but curing her make dragonborn cannot use auriel bow to bloated the sun again.

brisk perch
#

Besides, why would you want to blot out the sun and hurt your crops, given our plantation?

obtuse summit
#

just temporary, i guess the prophecy didn't mention how long they gonna stop tyranny of the sun 🤣

#

trolled by snow elf, poor harkon.

brisk perch
#

I think the tyranny of the sun required dipping the entire bow in the blood, not just the arrows, would become permanent if it were

obtuse summit
#

that means to kill serana then?

brisk perch
#

Think so

scenic field
#

Has there ever been any hint or confirmation on whether the Stormcloaks or Imperials won the Civil War canonicallyconfused2

pastel sorrel
#

Other than Legends possibly being afterwards, but none of the stories or lore it touches take place afterwards.

quartz shuttle
#

The game its self sort of hints that no one wins. If the Stormcloaks win, they mention there are Imperial holdouts and they could see reinforcements from Cyrodiil. If the Loyalists win, they straight up say they'll be fighting rebels for years

#

Heavily implying that there is no resolution coming

mellow grotto
#

In the end, the Thalmor wins.

#

Additionally, if the empire wins, they must also deal with a massive power vacuum after Emperor Titus Mede II's death by the Dark Brotherhood.

fossil yoke
#

I would guess, maybe, that they might go with an Imperial canonical win.
As a Stormcloak victory would be all the excuse the Thalmor need to start a full invasion of Skyrim, whereas an Imperial victory could give a bit more leeway to have things be a stalemate or at least keep the Thalmor from invading Skyrim completely.
Or they could do a thing where neither sides victory matters because another invasion or third party pops up to turn things upside down, like another Deadra invasion or the Dwemer returning or something like that.

sleek grove
#

We might not hear anything about it

#

The game probably will be a few years after Skyrim

solid path
#

They could do a negotiated peace and "alliance", although that's less likely.

Something like "both sides being exhausted by the efforts of the Civil War, the leaders of the Empire and the Holds came together and a new peace was born".

sleek grove
#

If it's Hammerfell for VI, I think it's independent from the Empire?

solid path
#

Obviously better written, because I've pulled it out of my ass on no notice.

neat ruin
#

If the Emperor died, wouldn't the Dragonfires go out, probably meaning another Oblivion invasion? Or did Martin seal the Gates for good?

sleek grove
#

Although I want to see what potentially happens to the Empire when Titus Mede II meets his fate

fossil yoke
#

I don't think the gates were actually sealed properly, when he died the dragonfires weren't able to be reignited with no heir....I think?

#

*I mean Martin in Oblivion

timber bough
#

Hammerfell withdrew from the Empire

neat ruin
timber bough
neat ruin
fossil yoke
timber bough
#

The covenant was only for dragonborn emperors, the Mede dynasty aren't dragonborn (as far as we know)

mellow grotto
#

When Martin sacrificed himself, he used the Avatar of Akatosh to repair the barriers between mundus and oblivion, which presumably prevented large-scale Daedric invasion. While it shut the portals to the deadlands, it didn't prevent all gates to oblivion from opening (Shivering Isles door, Soul Cairn portal, The Abyss, the Black Books, and the oblivion gate in The Cause).

timber bough
#

the difference is the scale yeah

#

before oblivion the barrier didn't prevent summoners from creating small portals or conjuring creatures from oblivion

quartz shuttle
#

Sul, in the novels, mentions that the sealing of the Covenant didn't seal off the world

#

Rather, it closed some of the largest doors, while opening others. So, invasion is still possible. Dagon just needs to poke and prod ling enough to find the new ways in

#

It may be that he'll never be able to open sometbing like a Great Gate again, but there are still optipns

mellow grotto
#

That might happen should the Thalmor continue their plans to deactivate all of the towers.

solid path
#

Well, if all the towers get deactivated, then the problems are a bit different to the barriers coming down.
It's stuff like "there not being a world any more".

mellow grotto
#

Indeed, but deactivating any tower will weaken the cohesiveness of mundus, including the barriers between it and oblivion.

solid path
#

They appear to be down to one is the problem. 😄

timber bough
#

keep in mind that as far as in-game lore is concerned, we don't know if the Thalmor want anything more than destroying the empire

#

the world-ending aspect is mainly out-of-game lore that hasn't been explicitly confirmed in the games yet

quartz crane
#

It was barely there in the text that supposedly birthed it, in all honesty

quartz shuttle
#

The text that supposedly birthed the idea doesn't even mention the Thalmor

#

It's an Altmer commentary, the word Thalmor is literally nowhere in the text

desert kayak
fossil yoke
brave shoal
#

meanwhile my dragonborn siding with hermaeus mora, shooting down the sun willy nilly and thinking thalmor are right my main savefile's timeline is probably one of the worse ones lol

desert kayak
mellow grotto
desert kayak
brave shoal
#

isnt we by default get grabbed by mora no matter what since the ending is us replacing mirak when we kill him?

fossil yoke
brave shoal
#

i wonder the horror dunmer would have seeing an argonian sitting on the imperial throne

desert kayak
#

That awkard moment when the empire is backed by an altmer dragonborn against the Thalmor

mellow grotto
#

The argonian emperor would likely move the empire's seat of power to Black Marsh. Nobody's going to contest their rule there, not even the Daedra.

brave shoal
#

wonder how thalmor will spin that fact in their propaganda lol

desert kayak
#

Black Marsh is the tamrielic equivalent of Brazil

brave shoal
#

dont think making a swamp the seat of capital a good idea, not sure many courtier will thrive in such an environment and central location of cyrodil at least make sense for an empire's capital so every province is, on paper at least, at equal distance more or less from seat of power? also if the legend than knahaten flu was truly made by an argonian mage who hated the outsider influance inside black marsh, that may make another argonian go angry and make a new plague?

fossil yoke
#

I would LOVE a game set in Black Marsh, my god~

desert kayak
#

Anyway, I imagine a human dragonborn ascending the Ruby Throne after defeating Alduin, Miraak and Serana's dad would be a huge morale boost for the empire

uncut hatch
fossil yoke
desert kayak
#

Btw, something that's been bothering me for a bit

brave shoal
uncut hatch
desert kayak
#

Is the protagonist of Skyrim called "the Last Dragonborn" because he'll be the last there will ever be, or because he's the most recent one?

uncut hatch
uncut hatch
obtuse summit
uncut hatch
#

the recent dragonborn doesn't roll off the tongue as well i gues

fossil yoke
#

The latest dragonborn?

desert kayak
#

The Current Dragonborn

uncut hatch
#

the modern dragonborn 😎

fossil yoke
#

The Hip dragonborn

obtuse summit
#

the updated dragonborn

fossil yoke
#

Is being a dragonborn a bloodline thing?
Or can the gods make you dragonborn if they need to?

sand flume
timber bough
timber bough
sand flume
#

an ancient prophecy referring to the most recent dragonborn would be hella weird

#

considering the amount of dragonborns between the writing of the prophecy and the LDB

#

theres also no more need for the dragonborn, with no dragonfires to be lit and no alduin to slay

brave shoal
#

isnt hermaeus mora more or less knowing of the future and he also call us the last dragonborn? that could weight on that side maybe?

sand flume
#

and the whole dichotomy between the first dragonborn (miraak) and the last dragonborn fighting each other wouldnt really have as much weight if you werent always going to be the last dragonborn

uncut hatch
desert kayak
#

Yeah but the ability to use shouts like a dragon is tied to the Dragonborn's dragon soul right?

uncut hatch
#

yea

desert kayak
#

So while those descended from a DB may call themselves dragonborn, they aren't the real deal

#

Anyway, isn't the Septim dynasty descended from Tiber's brother?

sand flume
#

why not?

uncut hatch
#

martin could probably learn to shout as easy as the last dragonborn could if dragons were around

#

instead, he just became a avatar of akatosh

desert kayak
#

True enough, he probably wouldn't be capable of doing that if he wasn't dragonborn in the traditional sense

sand flume
#

a dragonborn is dragonborn because of their unique dragon soul

desert kayak
#

Were there any references to the Thu'um before Skyrim?

pastel sorrel
#

yes

quartz shuttle
#

Yes, but mostly out of game

pastel sorrel
#

Actually a significant portion of TES5's lore was already established way back in the PGE1

#

which came out with TESA: Redguard

sand flume
#

nords were said to have used the thuum instead of battering rams

pastel sorrel
#

Most of TES5's new stuff was like the Dragon Cult.

desert kayak
#

Yeah, but I mean the ability to be able to shout naturally as an ability linked to the dragonborn

uncut hatch
uncut hatch
#

always rely on the pocket guide i guess

pastel sorrel
quartz shuttle
#

Pre Skyrim, the Dragonborn was a strictly Cyrodiil thing

#

Linked directly to the blood of Imperial rulers

pastel sorrel
#

Most outside of Skyrim just think of the Dragonborn blessing as that of the Cyrodiilic emperor, and it's commonly believed Alessia was the first Dragonborn. The Nords still remember otherwise.

sand flume
#

we have hjalti very clearly using the thuum in arcturian heresy, which was in morrowind

pastel sorrel
#

Not that they remember Miraak, to clarify, but they know the legend in general predates Alessia.

quartz shuttle
#

Eeèeh.... we have Wulfharth using it.

#

The only time Hjalti may, is when he has the Stormcrown above him, which may just be Wulfharth as an ash cloud

desert kayak
sand flume
# desert kayak What

"That night a storm came and visited Hjalti's camp. It spoke with him in his tent. At dawn, Hjalti went up to the gates, and the storm followed just above his head. Arrows could not penetrate the winds around him. He shouted down the walls of Old Hrol'dan, and his men poured in. After their victory, the Nords called Hjalti Talos, or Stormcrown."

quartz shuttle
#

Yeah

sand flume
#

"Naturally, Wulfharth thinks he is the figure of prophecy. He goes directly to High Hrothgar to hear the Greybeards speak. When they do, Ysmir is blasted to ash again. He is not the chosen one. It is a warrior youth from High Rock. As the Grey Wind goes to find this boy,"

#

or that bit about the ash cloud

desert kayak
#

The bit about the ash cloud

quartz shuttle
#

Both combined

desert kayak
#

Ah

quartz shuttle
#

The Greybeards shout Wulfharth fo ash, amd he them finds Hjalti while an incorporeal cloud.

#

So, the shouting at Old Hroldan was probably Wulfharth, not Hjalti

#

But yeah, tjere was no associstion between Dragonborn and shouting until Skyrim

desert kayak
#

Yeah, I guess there wouldn't be unless a Septim happened to kill a dragon

quartz shuttle
#

He did have one working for him though

fossil yoke
#

So there's a bunch of were creatures in the ES world, which ones would you wanna see in a new ES game?
Personally, I would die happy if I could be like a were shark or something. Could get some kind of bite attack if you power attack unarmed or something.

brave shoal
#

argonian/reptile variant rumored to exist in blackmarsh intrigue me

desert kayak
#

Aren't there snake people in Akavir?

fossil yoke
#

That just makes me want a.black marsh game more.
Let me wallow in the swamp like a grody goblin, Bethesda!

quartz shuttle
#

Wereboar

fossil yoke
#

Or the dreaded were-man

#

Half man, half man, all terror.

#

I do think the werebears looked sick in Skyrim, would have loved to be one of those but I get that making another skill tree would have been a pain...And probably wouldn't have been much different from the werewolf

mellow grotto
# desert kayak Aren't there snake people in Akavir?

No but technically yes. There are Tsaesci who are "vampiric snake people", but the Dawnfang/Duskfang creation heavily implies that this is a result of a curse by the Akaviri blood drinker swords. Culturally, they have a snake aesthetic, but it's implied in many source that they're just humans.

uncut hatch
#

man, i thought they were shape shifters

mellow grotto
#

We still don't know if they were shapeshifters, but based on evidence provided in Oblivion, Skyrim, and ESO Elsweyr, it's implied that they're humans.

brave shoal
#

maybe they're similar to d&d's yuan ti? mostly human but with snake trait like scaly skin, snake eye and forked tongue but otherwise same as human with their general shape and having hair?

mellow grotto
#

Could be, I believe that they're humans with an ancestry similar to Japanese people.

#

It still begs the question why Chevalier Renald never had any snake-like traits despite implying that he's a Tsaesci descendant. I know he talks about "shedding skin" but I feel that he's speaking metaphorically.

uncut hatch
#

whatever that means

uncut hatch
#

im a bit dummy today

desert kayak
#

Tsun: "By what right do you seek entry?"
TLD: "This is obviously a shake down."
Tsun: "Alright alright, keep your voice down! I'll let you in..."

solid path
#

"Vampiric snake people" could reflect the armour worn by an elite unit.

#

Snake mempo or similar.

quartz shuttle
#

Every new thing we see about the Akaviri i maes htem more Generic Oriental

uncut hatch
#

Next you’ll tell me kamal are just nords

quartz shuttle
#

Nah, they're Falmer

golden sierra
#

the idea that it was Wulfharth and Wulfharth alone is an Arcturian Heresy thing, which went out of its way to discredit Tiber in every way possible. sometimes, this goes against the goal of accuracy

#

We spoke the traditional words of greeting to a Dragonborn who has accepted our guidance. The same words were used to greet the young Talos, when he came to High Hrothgar, before he became the Emperor Tiber Septim.

#

interestingly, this also confirms that Hjalti was named Ysmir by the Greybeards, despite other sources claiming either he or Zurin did it, iirc

Ah. I sometimes forget you are not versed in the dragon tongue as we are. This is a rough translation: "Long has the Stormcrown languished, with no worthy brow to sit upon." "By our breath we bestow it now to you in the name of Kyne, in the name of Shor, and in the name of Atmora of Old." "You are Ysmir now, the Dragon of the North, hearken to it."
this is Arngeir's direct translation of the ritual he just described above

quartz shuttle
#

The problem is, it explains why Tiber never seemed to Shout after his falling out with Wulfharth

golden sierra
#

i mean...

#

his throat was slit, heh

quartz shuttle
#

The exuse given was that he lost the ability when hsi throat was cut, but we know for a fact that can't be the case, as Draugr can still shout

golden sierra
#

Draugr are merely undead foxhuh

quartz shuttle
#

If a withered, desicated throat can shout, so could Tiber

golden sierra
#

they're still largely together. that's not proving much. we know gags are effective - slitting one's throat to prevent shouting would do something similar

brave shoal
#

maybe difference is pain?

golden sierra
#

that could be a factor

brave shoal
#

undead can shout while wounded tiber couldnt or didnt want anymore

quartz shuttle
#

Un;ess Tiber lost the ability to speak altogether, then i see no way for the slit throat to make sense

golden sierra
#

we know for basically a fact that Tiber was Dragonborn and able to Shout. the Greybeards are a more reliable source in this instance than the Arcturian Heresy, which goes out of its way to discredit Tiber at every turn

brave shoal
#

or the wound altered his speech pattern/voice cord in some way and with other king of magic, bad prununciation can lead to....complication in results?

golden sierra
#

the Greybeards have no agenda in saying Tiber was Dragonborn; the Arcturian Heresy does have an agenda in saying Tiber wasn't called to High Hrothgar

#

that said, some also theorize that he was in fact able to shout, and was healed after his throat was slit

golden sierra
quartz shuttle
#

Tiber is a mess, yeah, but the Shouting thing doesn't match with how we see Shouts working later

#

So, it's far more likely that, having been Prophesied, his vetting at the Greybeards was different

golden sierra
#

they state he's Dragonborn

quartz shuttle
#

He wasn't just A Dragonborn, he was THE Dragonborn

golden sierra
#

that would still make him Dragonborn and able to Shout, haha

quartz shuttle
#

The prophesied Dragonborn who would unite all of Tamriel

#

Dragonborn can't shout automatically. They still have to learn. They just get a shorter road than others

golden sierra
#

they didn't call you (LDB) in until after they'd heard you Shout. i doubt they did any different for Tiber

#

"The Dragonborn is an exception to all the rules - the Dragon Blood itself is a gift of the gods. If we accept one gift, how can we deny the other? As Dragonborn, you have received the ability to Shout directly from Akatosh. We therefore seek to guide you on the proper use of your gift, which transcends the restrictions which bind other mortals."

  • Arngeir
#

they seem to reinforce the idea that they want to train you to use the Thu'um. i imagine they did the same with Tiber, although he wouldn't have learned the Thu'um via dragons as we did

#

idk how he would have learned it except via the Greybeards, but Wulfharth has similar questions of "how"

quartz shuttle
#

The problem is, Tiber wasn't the same situation as LDB

#

Tiber wasn't jsut ant Dragonborn, he was a prophesied Dragonborn that would unite Tamriel. And the Greybeards of his era seem to have known exactly who they were looking for, otherwise they wouldn't have rejected Wulfharth

golden sierra
#

i suppose, but that still seems like a rather convoluted way to deny Tiber's ability to Shout

#

seems like a stretch to me that Tiber was completely unable to Shout, is all shrug

quartz shuttle
#

More convoluted than his throat being slit somehow acomplishing something mummufication doesn't?

golden sierra
#

mummification is dedicated toward preserving the body; slitting one's throat accomplishes the opposite

quartz shuttle
#

Mummification usually involves removing many soft tissues, tongues included

golden sierra
#

and, again, some theorize slitting his throat was later remedied by healing anyways

#

and that he continued to be able to Shout

#

we know healing is capable of even greater feats

quartz shuttle
#

I have never seen any source indicating he shouted after the assassination

golden sierra
#

nor have i, i'm simply reporting theories that i believe might address some of your thoughts

#

regrettably, i don't follow the theory myself, and so can't provide details

quartz shuttle
#

I suppose it is worth noting, of course, that i absolutely hate Tiber Septim, so i am biased towards perspectives that make him look decietful and less heroic

golden sierra
#

understandable, i suppose

brave shoal
#

maybe he didnt ever really need to shoot after that event?

#

dont know in details his story but maybe at that point his power/reputation was enough to get by without using thu'um?

quartz shuttle
#

It was the event where his Emperor was killed, and he stepped up to be the replacement. At the time, the Emprie consisted of Cyrodiil, Skyrim, and half of Highrock, so i doubt he'd be in a position where he wouldn't need the power anymore

golden sierra
#

actually, there's one theory, uh

#

"'You have suffered for me to win this throne, and I see how you hate jungle. Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.'"
that Tiber used the Thu'um when altering Cyrod with the WGT

quartz shuttle
#

I've heard that one. However, ESO has significantly called into question whether or not Tiber had anything to do with that, or if it was just another successfuyl PR campaign

golden sierra
#

on the contrary, ESO verifies that without mortal alteration, Cyrod would be a jungle. this is shown in Sanctum Ophidia (spelling), where the WGT is destroyed and Cyrod is, uh, a jungle

brave shoal
#

in eso there a book detailling how cyrodil already wasnt a jungle because the tower adapte cyrodil's environment to his owner's/inhanibitants's preference. whuch was jungle for the elves and temperate for human under alessia

#

well, was the book's writer theory i should precise (since rarely book in eso have definitive answer to everything,especially old legend stuff)

golden sierra
#

i've seen two theories that explain this:
one is that Cyrod was a jungle naturally but that the White Gold Tower manipulates the land to be befitting to its current residents and ruling king (whoever the Emperor is or, alternatively, the Imperial people themselves). when Cyrodiil doesn't have a ruling king, it slowly becomes more jungle-like, but becomes more temperate and subtropical when it does have a ruling king. Tiber, in this theory, is accredited for the biggest, fastest transition - special because he made it happen so fast, rather than because he made it happen in the first place. the sudden transition would still be thanks to manipulation of the WGT (possibly via the Thu'um)

the other is that Cyrod was a jungle naturally, but that Tiber Septim, upon manipulating the land via the WGT (possibly via the Thu'um), caused Cyrod to become temperate and subtropical, and to have always been temperate and subtropical. this retroactivity would be similar in nature to other gods having retroactive effects - such as Syrabane being worshipped well before he was born, or the difference between Vehk the god and Vehk the mortal

#

both of these account for the source that Phrastus of Elinhir and Lady Cinnabar base their theories upon, although both discard Phrastus's position of "jungle" being a transcription error, which is rather immediately turned down by Sanctum Ophidia anyways

#

personally, i adhere to the second of these theories, but see merit in showing both

quartz shuttle
#

We don't see a lot of retroactivity. We hear some myths about gods and their origins, but we haven't really seen any retroactive events in the series. So i personally don't subscribed to the Tiber thing.

golden sierra
#

i believe that discarding both of them could be the result of your Tiber bias getting in the way again

quartz shuttle
#

Possible, but at the same time i reject the origin of Syrabane, Arkay, and even Auri-El as mortals becoming gods

golden sierra
#

i see

quartz shuttle
#

Rather, they are, at best, Mantles, at worst missremembered creaton myths convoluted by the wibbly wobbly nature of the Dawn

golden sierra
#

in that case, we're coming at this from fundamentally separate sides with fundamentally separate views of Aurbis foxwhoops

quartz shuttle
#

That doesn't mean that White-Gold isn't a giant terraformer which shapes the land, but from what we see in the series we have no real reason to beleive that Tiber ultimately had anything to do with Tamriel's transformation

#

The ONLY source supporting that position is Tiber's own preaching. And you might as well take any holy book at face value at that point

golden sierra
#

once again, we have fundamentally different views on too many subjects. i believe it'd be best to call this at "agree to disagree"

quartz shuttle
#

I will respect that, but i don't think it's a stance conducive to academic discussion

golden sierra
#

i'd have to convince you of the possibility of far too many things for it to seem like it'd be worth either of our times or energies, i feel

#

or you'd have to convince me of the opposite

#

neither seems likely, even if the time were taken, especially with heavy bias on the table

#

in any case, i have enjoyed the discussion

quartz shuttle
#

And I

golden sierra
#

thank you for the conversation and thoughts GuardSalute i'm off to probably do stuff that i should be doing anyways, haha

quartz shuttle
#

Hah, an it's now midnight and i should sleep

sharp lantern
quartz shuttle
#

Yeahm Cuhlecain was assassinated after the Battle of Sacnre Tor, which was hte last stand of the Nord-Breton alliance against the newly minted Empire

sharp lantern
#

Just because their armies were beaten doesn't mean that those provinces joined the Empire.

#

They literally formed that alliance in opposition to the Empire - it doesn't make sense (nor is there proof) of Skyrim and High Rock becoming parts of the Empire before Cyrodiil itself was even unified.

sharp lantern
uncut hatch
timber bough
#

it's worth noting that mankar was kinda nutty and wrongly states what daedric realm belongs to which prince in his dialogue

uncut hatch
#

Mankar’s a oddball

#

Mankar thinks the gods aren’t real gods and that they betrayed Lorkhan and not the other way around which tbh I agree with but I dunno if others do

uncut hatch
timber bough
# uncut hatch Who should he have invoked instead?

Mankar Camoran erroneously associates some Oblivion Realms with the wrong Princes. 'Coldharbour' is Molag Bal's domain while Meridia's is 'The Colored Rooms', 'Quagmire' belongs to Vaermina while Peryite reigns over 'The Pits' and 'Moonshadow' is the realm of Azura while Mephala is sovereign of the 'Spiral Skein'.

#

his dialogue:

# 
    How little you understand! You cannot stop Lord Dagon. The Principalities have sparkled as gems in the black reaches of Oblivion since the First Morning. Many are their names and the names of their masters: the Coldharbour of Meridia, Peryite's Quagmire, the ten Moonshadows of Mephala, and... and Dawn's Beauty, the Princedom of Lorkhan... misnamed 'Tamriel' by deluded mortals.
    Yes, you understand now. Tamriel is just one more Daedric realm of Oblivion, long since lost to its Prince when he was betrayed by those that served him. Lord Dagon cannot invade Tamriel, his birthright! He comes to liberate the Occupied Lands! ```
uncut hatch
#

Maybe he’s actually saying they’re all over lapping 🤔

#

It’s a way to place nirn into the hands of Mehrunes Dagon

timber bough
#

Tbh given his whole Tamriel is Lorkhan's daedric realm thing, I think the easiest explanation is that he's nuts

uncut hatch
#

That too :V

#

But slowly I’ve started agreeing with mankar’s dumb talk cause headcanons are loopy

#

So is Nirn in Lorkhan's plane?

#

Which is itself an plane of Oblivion?

timber bough
#

Nah, Nirn is most likely not a plane of Oblivion, and the closest thing to a plane of Lorkhan would be the moons as they're his corpse I'd say

uncut hatch
#

Ah ok so if we got transported to these moons via gates - would they count as a plane of Oblivion?

uncut hatch
timber bough
#

Nope. It'd be like visiting any of the other planets in Mundus, which would correspond to the other dead gods

#

Oblivion is more like the darkness of space in the sky

uncut hatch
#

Ah that tracks: mortal = mundus

#

:P

#

You can see daedric planes from Mundus though. Just like planets we see on earth, they look like bright stars

#

I find that cool basically

#

Yeah - I don't think the lore is loopy - I find it a nice break from our Earth haha

timber bough
#

Yeah the cosmology of TES is pretty cool and unique

uncut hatch
#

Though some of it is fine 420 material

timber bough
#

The planets are the bodies of the gods but the mortal mind can't comprehend their actual shape so it defaults into a ball

uncut hatch
#

Wait - so they're walking on dead naughty bits? Oh, Bethesda!

uncut hatch
fossil yoke
#

Odd question, how cold IS Skyrim?
Like some areas are warmer and colder etc etc, but on the whole is it as cold as some examples in our real world?
Is it mythically colder and the Nords are just mad as beans to be in that climate?

timber bough
#

Overall it's comparable to Scandinavia imo

#

The mythically cold place is pretty much Atmora, which is to the north of Skyrim

uncut hatch
fossil yoke
#

Also, the Nordic resistance to cold.
Is that magically related or is it just living for generations in that climate gives them that ability?

uncut hatch
#

Like real life Nordic people lol

#

Or Russians or Mongolians

#

Or Little & Big Dimanteans & Nunvatans

fossil yoke
#

I remember when one of my friends visited America for a holiday.
They said that USA was way hotter than the UK, but when it got colder they were still in shorts and a t shirt while natives wore thicker clothing.
Can't remember where they went, I wanna say New York area but I'm unsure.

uncut hatch
#

And Newfie & Labrador people

uncut hatch
#

Not that it's really bad

fossil yoke
#

Yea, I can't imagine people's genetics really come into temperature management much, except maybe skin colour but even then it's probably negligible...Unless you're a lizard person, then you're pretty much stuffed in the cold lol

uncut hatch
#

Argonians & Khalijit rights are legit

thick plinth
#

There's no genetics to it, just the fact that they're used to the cold

uncut hatch
#

Yeah :)

thick plinth
#

If an Icelander is born and raised in Florida, if you send them to Iceland they'll be freezing like crazy

uncut hatch
#

Who gives a stuff about essentialism?

uncut hatch
#

Whatever happens - I'm happy that I got to explore something like Daggerfall & Morrowind @thick plinth

#

Same goes for Oblivion and occasionally Skyrim

thick plinth
#

Fair enough yeah

#

Skyrim is based on Scandinavia as far as worldspace, it has the birch forests, pine forests, volcanic tundra, the mountains, everything. Architecture is a mixture of Scandinavian/Saxonic/Germanic, and ancient nord architectural culture is fantasy based on the Egyptian pyramids with a rib-bone twist

fossil yoke
#

I do like Skyrim and Oblivion alot ...I'll complain about them until the cows come home, but you can only really complain alot about something you like.
Still want a game based in Black Marsh though.

thick plinth
#

There's a twist of Proto-Norse in the architecture, with the dual bird-of-prey motif we find the Óðinn cult used all across Germania

uncut hatch
#

(not sarcastic)

gaunt bear
#

Sorry if this is the wrong channel to do so, but I’d like some help with something for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction.

After an attack on Solitude by Red Templars (which was repelled with Inquisition aid with moderate casualties), the Bard’s College decide to commemorate it with a propaganda-verse (similar to King Olaf’s Verse). The only problem is that I have little to no clue on how to write in Nordic verse, so I’m turning to the experts (here). Here’s what I got for the verse suggestions:

  1. It wasn’t Dumat that tasked Corypheys and his contemporaries to breach the Fade, it was a demon of racial pride and bigotry.
  2. They “raided” the subjugated ancient (Dalish) elves for the sacrifices needed for the blood magic required.
  3. One of the sacrifices they captured was an elf maiden and her lover, an Emerald Knight, took exception to this and rode off to rescue her.
  4. Said Emerald Knight succeeded in rescuing his lover, but his interference lead to the “origin” of the Darkspawn.

If you can turn that to Nordic (Skyrim) verse, I’d really appreciate it.

desert kayak
#

How the hell do you pronounce Cairn (from Soul Cairn)?

fallow grotto
#

Rhymes with darn.

desert kayak
#

Thanks

pastel sorrel
#

Or like, "care" with an N at the end.

brisk perch
#

Hmm, I'd consider the other planets/corpses of the divines to be closer to planes of Aetherius than planes of Oblivion, but I'd need to double-check on that

pastel sorrel
brisk perch
pastel sorrel
#

Inside Nirn, or at least within the Mundus which is made of multiple layers.

#

It might well be an Adjacent Place as opposed to being physically inside.

#

Leveraging everything from the side, as it were.

#

Which actually makes sense. If there's no room in the machine to put your own gears to affect the existing ones, make their axles longer and stick your gears on those instead.

brisk perch
#

Like how houses are bigger on the inside

pastel sorrel
#

But either way, we don't know where it is exactly or how it's set up, just that it's able to influence things.

brisk perch
#

How distant things are in the Aurbus is a matter of perspective

#

Oblivion could be a few thousand miles to extending in infinite directions and distance

pastel sorrel
#

Strictly speaking, it's infinite

#

Everything's infinite outside of the Mundus, the Mundus is unique for being so limited

#

Distances and sizes are all infinite. But infinities can be of different sizes themselves.

#

That's probably how it all works, thinking about it. Everything isn't physically located in relation so much as layered on top of one another and it's just a matter of how much a layer comes through at any given point. It's even somewhat supported in lore already, how planes can partially merge into one another.

#

Instead of using a map, you'd be reading alpha channels.

brisk perch
#

One joke I liked was that reading an elder scroll is like reading the plaintext dump of a save file, it can reveal the nature of the Aurbus, but would drive someone mad looking at it from the inside

#

I wonder what happens when one dives right into an elder scroll?

#

Hmm, I wonder how big the Forgotten Vale really is, and if it's actually on the surface or not of this Tamriel?

pastel sorrel
#

Forgotten Vale's in the mountains, there's no reason to think it's anywhere else

pastel sorrel
#

Likewise what the WGT looks in ESO in the upper levels near the dark anchor above it, everything's breaking apart from our perspective as our mortal smoothbrain minds try to perceive the merging of realities as Sister Arminus says.

merry crescent
#

Do the duskfang/dawnfang swords deny killed enemies a afterlife?

floral light
#

As far as i know the only weapon that canonically alters a person's afterlife outside of soul trapping obviously is merune's razor,

timber bough
#

Is there any solid info on the status of the An-Xileel by Skyrim's time?

sharp lantern
#

That a no afaik

#

I don't think the term An-Xileel is ever used outside the Novels, barring that one card from TES: Legends

timber bough
#

figured as much tbh

#

kind of a shame that the east is such a lore black hole in skyrim

uncut hatch
#

the main events in the novels are never mentioned in skyrim and im still weirded out skyrim mentioned the synods and college of whispers

quartz shuttle
#

Umbriel is mentioned as a possible origin for the Sleeping Tree in Whiterun Hold

uncut hatch
#

yea but like... the tree didn't come from umbriel as everything became ethereal when they left the island (they kinda just die after becoming ghosts too...)

quartz shuttle
#

Umbriel was never that far north either

#

But it does show they at least sorta remember it happening

uncut hatch
#

i guess :ludicoloh77:

#

did it just... remove my emote? (im no longer nitro just now @_@ nvm)

quartz shuttle
#

Maybe?

sharp lantern
uncut hatch
#

I just want a Mede lore book in game

brisk perch
#

I think that some of the people in Skyrim were aware of what was happening in Black Marsh.

Erikur: "Melaran, you lazy milk drinker, have you finished studying the imports from Black Marsh?"
Melaran: "Indeed I have, sir. Elven weapons for their armies, sir. Elven material, but poor workmanship, like most of what we get from them."
Erikur: "Scary, thinking of those boots with an army of Elven weapons at their command. Let's be thankful they're half a world away, eh?"
Melaran: "Even a fine weapon is only as good as its wielder, sir. But they should fetch a high price from the Imperial army."
Erikur: "Right you are, elf! Or even from the rebels, if they've got enough money to make a competitive offer."
Melaran: "As always, lord, your loyalty is a shining example to us all."

uncut hatch
#

Half a world?

brisk perch
#

Well, to many on Tamriel, Tamriel is the world, since travelling anywhere outside is less common

uncut hatch
#

Darn, thought I was on to something. But you’re right

brisk perch
#

And due to the nature of water in the Aurbus... other continents could very well be other worlds

uncut hatch
#

😦 ohhhhhh

#

That’s too cool and complex but fun

obtuse summit
#

or other timeline 😄

merry crescent
#

Guys what all is known about the towers? What is their purpose

obtuse summit
#

probably pillar of creations

#

adamantia tower is the oldest building on tamriel

#

I don't play eso, i heard there's more about the tower in eso mostly on summerset dlc

brisk perch
#

In ESO ||they reveal the names of all 8 main towers of Nirn|| though much of their nature is speculation, just that they are fundamental towards the stability of Nirn and seem to have some level of localized to multiplanar control of reality.

merry crescent
#

Maybe the purpose of all elder scrolls games (or at least the 3 most popular ones) was to deactivate the towers for some reason? For red mountain , the imperial city and the throat of the world were all towers

obtuse summit
#

well if you count numidium, thats four.

#

I heard orihalc tower was already deactivated also crystal tower on summerset.

merry crescent
#

Does my theory make sense? I might make a Reddit post about it

obtuse summit
#

then what for deactivated them? to unmake reality?

merry crescent
#

It seems that after every mainline tes game a tower gets deactivated , maybe there is some reason for it

obtuse summit
#

well even towers power remained vague. I guess its good plot to reactivate all tower and bring adventures through all province.

pastel sorrel
#

You're also nowhere near the first to make that theory :v

obtuse summit
#

is there some kind of zoo in tamriel? or people just collecting exotic animals and put them on museum?

pastel sorrel
#

The Crystal Tower had that.

brisk perch
sand flume
#

the prophecy of the dragonborn states that it's been sundered

timber bough
#

meaning split in two, so refers likely to the civil war

sharp lantern
#

Sundered is all about the division of Skyrim between east and west.

#

Kingless is a clear reference to the death of Torygg, and the power vacuum that resulted from it.

#

Bleeding is about the blood spilt in the civil war.

pastel sorrel
#

Hence again, it's mended post-Civil War.

uncut hatch
desert kayak
#

Do you guys think that if all the towers get deactivated, the protagonist will have to become a sort of Atlas-like figure?

#

Because in Greek mythology, four titans were assigned to the four corners of the world, Koios to the North, Krios to the South, Hyperion to the East and Iapetus to the West

#

And when the gods defeated them, they had to have someone holding the sky, because those four powerful presences weren’t there yo support it anymore