#elder-scrolls-lore

1 messages · Page 46 of 1

turbid dew
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I want to achieve the deep understanding you guys have of Elder Scrolls deities. This is all really cool to read.

golden sierra
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i'm not calling them the same exact deity! in fact, i personally believe that Auriel =/= Akatosh =/= Alduin, which, imo, applies to most variations upon the 8+1 Aedric gods. i consider them separate entities created by the 8+1's personalities shattering, on account of trying to adapt to all mortal interpretations (thanks to mythopoeia, which one might refer to as "myth becomes reality"; this concept is mentioned by Paarthurnax, for the least obscure example, although he doesn't use the word "mythopoeia"), yet being too rigid (thanks to having sacrificed themselves to the mortal plane) to simply bend, having instead just completely frickin broken. in this theory, each personality will have formed an individual entity which is the Plane(t), but not the other entites which belongs to that Plane(t)

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a q&a with Lawrence Schick, playing as Phrastus of Elinhir, corroborates with this (although, obviously, many sources don't)

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Atharaon:
Are the eight planets of the Altmer literally the same eight planets of the other Aedric religions but with different names, or are they actually different planets altogether, i.e. there are more than eight planets up there, but each group is making a selection of their own chosen eight.

Phrastus:
The answer, I believe, is mostly the former with a little bit of the latter: mythopoeia is real, or “real,” so the reality-warping force of cultural belief must be accounted for. In other words, they’re all the same planets but not exactly the same divines—and if that doesn’t make sense to you, I scarcely know where to start. Where did you say you studied, again?
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/lawrence-schick-and-phrastus-altmer-culture

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however, that's not ultimately super relevant to the debate i was having, and therefore isn't something i was intending to bring up; regardless of whether you follow mirror theory or not, there's still a potential debate to be had about whether the author of Shezarr... was using Akatosh in the specific or general term

brave kernel
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I wish I had time, but I don't. Perhaps we can pick it up at another time. VBThumbsUp

glossy tinsel
golden sierra
glossy tinsel
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Every people has their own deities like the Dunmer see Vivec, Almalexia and Sotha Sil (The Tribunal) as gods up until the Nerevarine shows up and destroys the heart of Lorkhan and a lot things changes for the Tribunal to the extent that it get's completely destroyed.
Every people has their own important deities that often gas to do with their origins.

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I gotta go too, it is 23:43 here where I'm, I hope I can discuss something with one or more of you tomorrow.

turbid tiger
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Hi, I don't need to go. I can stay up with you all night.

turbid tiger
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The elder scrolls lore about gods, dwemer, and all that stuff can be understood if you remember all the books you'll read, interviews with devs, and arguments you'll have are just one man's opinion, and the only way to understand the lore is to play with it and interpret it for yourself in your own head. You can tell the books and Martin Schtick they're wrong, the only people who aren't going to like that are here. But then there's no fun in agreeing with anybody's interpretation of the events or gods, unless you love reducing the creative process to consensus building and clout chasing on internet forums.

golden sierra
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do you mean Lawrence Schick?

brave kernel
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Let's reset a little bit and go back to the original point of contention; Does the usage of Akatosh in Shezarr and the Divines imply he was an elven god, or is Akatosh an invention of Alessia?

My "peek behind the curtain" answer is that he is both. Lets take a look at your quote from Lawrence Schick

they're all the same planets but not exactly the same divines

There is a planet we can call the "Time God" and then there are all the schizophrenic personalities of the Time God that the mortals of Nirn have willed into existence due to their belief. If you are familiar with the Sandman comics, it's a similar situation. Dream and the other Endless are core concepts to existence that every culture recognizes, but in their own way. Dream has many different names and appearances just on Earth. One of the stories even pulls it back to a universal level where the Dream of Earth wasn't aware of his echoes on other planets with sentient life. But in the end they were all the general concept of Dream.

The first taste of this we, as in the fans, got of this is literally titled the Monomyth. Every culture remembers the Dawn differently, because time wasn't linear yet, but it's still the same Dawn. So was Akatosh an elven deity? Yes, but he was known as Auriel "then". Still the Time god, but an elven aspect of that Time God. The Akatosh moniker was very much invented by Alessia creating yet another aspect of the already fractured Time God. A synthesis, as "Shezarr..." puts it of Auriel and Aludin, like the other members of the nine divines.

split pond
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Is Azura and the Azurah that the Khajiit know the same?

glossy tinsel
split pond
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Funny how, for all of the Aedra's sacrifice, a lot of races still ended up having a Daedric Prince or other as their primary deity of worship.

dusky scaffold
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Dunmer
Orcs

Is two a lot?

turbid tiger
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Martin Septim

split pond
golden sierra
# brave kernel Let's reset a little bit and go back to the original point of contention; Does t...

So was Akatosh an elven deity? Yes, but he was known as Auriel "then". Still the Time god, but an elven aspect of that Time God. The Akatosh moniker was very much invented by Alessia creating yet another aspect of the already fractured Time God.
this is where we disagree, then 😛
A synthesis, as "Shezarr..." puts it of Auriel and Aludin, like the other members of the nine divines.
where does Shezarr... put it like this?

brave kernel
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The same paragraph you quoted initially

the Eight Divines, an elegant, well-researched synthesis of both pantheons, Nordic and Aldmeri.

golden sierra
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that does not put it the way you just did

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nor does it support either of our arguments more than the other; after all, i'm arguing the very name "Akatosh" was thanks to Aldmeri influence

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oh, just to clarify my stance a little: i don't think the Imperial Akatosh is literally the same as the Aldmeri Akatosh, but we know the Empire borrowed names from the Aldmer; both Mara and Stendarr take the names of their Aldmeri equivalents, although i doubt they're presented the exact same. i similarly doubt that the Aldmeri Akatosh (being a patron god of mer) would be the exact same as the Imperial Akatosh (being seen as a patron god of man)

brave kernel
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Not literally but the intent is there

From Varieties of Faith in the Empire

Alduin (World Eater): Alduin is the Nordic variation of Akatosh, and only superficially resembles his counterpart in the Nine Divines.

Auri-El (King of the Aldmer): The Elven Akatosh is Auri-El.

Alduin + Auriel = Akatosh, a synthesis of the two. His name is derived from the Ehlnofex AKHAT or Aka-Tusk as you mentioned before.

golden sierra
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Alduin + Auriel = Akatosh, a synthesis of the two.
i still feel as if this has not been shown to be what the source means. i agree that other sources corroborate with what you're saying, (brief tangent) albeit imo likely thanks to Auriel mantling Akatosh (or, more generally speaking, taking his position in the pantheon; i guess it doesn't need to be Mantling, now that i think about it, which makes a portion of our discussion moot. whoops...). (back on track) however, regardless of what other sources say, the context provided within this source, as discussed in my earlier messages (the latest of which was not really responded to, i don't think?), leans much more heavily toward "Akatosh" being used in the specific, just as "Shezarr" and "Shor" were

(tangent again, this one lasts until the end of the message)

His name is derived from the Ehlnofex AKHAT or Aka-Tusk as you mentioned before.
agreed, although i would actually lean more toward "Aka-Tusk" likely being a bastardization of the word "Akatosh," (similar to Shor -> Sheor) with Akatosh being the most direct linguistic progression from "AKHAT." this is keeping in mind that "Aka" means "Time" in Ehlnofex, as well as the blurry line between Aldmer and the Old Ehlnofey, as well as the similiarity between the Ayleid language and Aldmeris. ultimately, that's neither here nor there, tho, so akkoShrug

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that's not to say you shouldn't observe a source using context from outside of it; after all, i'm doing the same, it's just that Shezarr... doesn't, in my opinion, ultimately support your conclusion, which i believe i've listed most of my reasons for by now

split pond
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Does Alduin devour just Mundus or like, everything?

golden sierra
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just Mundus as far as we know. it's hard to know for certain, tho

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it's not a topic that's much touched on? if you're asking because of Ruptga, it's my understanding that he's functionally an Aedric god from the previous (or older) Kalpa, carried over through Yokudan memory (and the gods seemingly having mostly just been rearranged a little rather than completely redone from scratch, thus why they so poorly map to the other pantheons sometimes yet still have those hits of familiarity, and some gods like Tava, who is practically 1:1 with this kalpa's KYNRT)

split pond
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It's interesting because his method of eating the kalpa is literal. He grows so big he eats mountains whole.
If he's actually eating everything, he's going to be massive.

golden sierra
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uh, KYNRT is the Ehlnofex name for, basically, Kyne

golden sierra
split pond
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The story with the Leaper Demon King has him eating entire counties.

golden sierra
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the Seven Fights are fun foxxodance

split pond
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Whole

brave kernel
golden sierra
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i don't think i would've reached the conclusion in the first place if it were what i was looking for, but foxnod i'm happy to agree to disagree, as mentioned. 'twas a fun talk nonetheless ^-^

golden sierra
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while doing further research, (i was curious KS_AniShrug), i stumbled upon these. no need to actually interact with it if you don't want, i'm only including it to provide a more rounded picture on the subject for those interested:

[...] And to this host appeared at last a spirit who resembled none other than El-Estia, queen of ancienttimes, who bore in her left hand the dragonfire of the aka-tosh and in her right hand the jewels of the covenant and on her breast a wound that spilt void onto her mangled feet. [...]

[...] Hrol and his shieldthane were the only ones to find her, and the king spoke to her, saying, I love you sweet Aless, sweet wife of Shor and of Auri-el and the Sacred Bull, and would render this land alive again, not through pain but through a return to the dragon-fires of covenant, to join east and west and throw off all ruin. [...]

  • Remanada, Chapter 1

Y'ffre (God of the Forest): Most important deity of the Bosmeri pantheon. While Auri-El Time Dragon might be the king of the gods, the Bosmer revere Y'ffre as the spirit of 'the now'.

  • Varieties of Faith...
    once again keeping in mind that Aka = Time/Dragon and Tosh, at least in some languages (at least the Nedic tongue), also = Time/Dragon. these sources seem to suggest that Time Dragon, or aka-tosh, is sometimes used as a title for Auriel... unfortunately, both have Imperial bias, which makes it... um... weird imo? shrug idrk how to approach specifically Remanada from a validity standpoint, although Varieties seems like it probably has enough` validity to it, considering it's a pretty much solely educational piece. but, then, in order to reach Akatosh from that excerpt of Varieties..., you'd have to agree that Time Dragon here is intentionally synonymous with Aka-Tosh. imo, considering the author (Michael Kirkbride), this seems likely:

Are "Akatosh" and "Tosh Raka" etymologically related? (05/24/05)

Let us be clear that etymology in the TES lore is a risky venture. More than risky, it's asking for trouble when one considers Our Father Who Art in Oxford.

That said, there is an attempt at wordplay, consistency, and clues in the lore, so my brother above is right when he says Tosh-Raka is "Dragon Dragon." (So is Akatosh, for that matter.) But he is also missing the subtlety in the title; in Tamriel, "dragon" and "time" are synonymous, they are bones of the same body-concept. That they are combined in seeming redundance should suggest an intention.
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/posts-kirkbride-pre2006
i will say, this is not what i was thinking when i was talking about "Akatosh is an elven name" earlier... anyways, i'm gonna fully drop the topic now (assuming there's no interaction), i just thought some folks might be interested in seeing some more information on the subject ^-^

turbid tiger
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Auriel and Akatosh were theologically indistinguishable until the Selective ripped them apart.

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If they even had is debatable.

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More like the imperials and their traditions changed over time, which changed the god over time.

pastel sorrel
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You're forgetting about Aka-Tusk, whom Alessia was speaking with in the first place.

turbid tiger
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Akatusk? I don't know what that is.

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some horker akatosh

pastel sorrel
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One of the older aspects of the Time God, he's in a few of MK's texts

turbid tiger
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aldudagga?

pastel sorrel
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Aldudagga, explained a bit more in an AMA, and at least one more place i'm forgetting (might've been a Reddit thread)

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There's no real way to tell right now if the Selectives even did anything beyond cause a dragon break

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But that said, it should go to show that there was probably a different aspect than Auriel speaking to Alessia if she was truly blessed and aided as she's said to've been.

turbid tiger
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Yeah, Shezarr

pastel sorrel
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... Shezarr is Lorkhan, not Akatosh

turbid tiger
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That's in the Song of Pelinal

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I didn't say he was.

pastel sorrel
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Alessia spoke to both brothers in the legends (if Lorkhan ever truly showed up), not just Lorkhan, and Akatosh is the one more credited anyway.

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Especially given her dragonborn nature.

turbid tiger
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She was talking to Shezarr and Auriel on her deathbed.

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whatever, there's no way I'm digging through reddit or ama

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I thought the aspect friendly to man was Shezarr. Shezarr and Auriel together was Akatosh, hence the double-headed statues in Oblivion. Was a few discussions about that back in the day, but if all that's irrelevent I can't be any help here lol

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Aka-Tusk sounds like some stupid nord thing, I hope he's literally a giant horker. Maybe a man face.

golden sierra
# turbid tiger I thought the aspect friendly to man was Shezarr. Shezarr and Auriel together wa...

i think it's basically the same thing as those discussions you're thinking of, added onto something along the lines of this:

In the aetheric thunder of self-applause that followed (nay, rippled until convention, that is, amnesia), is it any wonder that the Time God would hate the same-twin on the other end of the aurbrilical cord, the Space God?

  • et'Ada, Eight Aedra, Eat the Dreamer
    i imagine one of the discussions you're talking about, meanwhile, is something along the lines of this:
    https://www.imperial-library.info/content/amulet-amulet-who-put-her-amulet
    by my understanding, rather than Akatosh = Shezarr + Auriel, it's more like LKHAN (the Space God) and AKHAT (the Time God) are two sides of the same coin; Space-Time
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and then that'd just kind of hold through all of the pantheons, with it just being most obvious in the Imperial pantheon, where Akatosh seemed to pick up some Lorkhanic traits (such as being so oriented toward mankind in the first place)

pastel sorrel
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It may well just be Aka-Tusk was already more aligned with the men anyway, even if he was hostile (or thought to be hostile) to Shor at the time.

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Certainly Akatosh and Lorkhan have mended bridges nowadays, though Auriel's probably still opposed.

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the Imperial pantheon overall is sugercoated, so it can be hard to tell what's genuine benevolence on their part and what's the Imperial idea of them.

gaunt bear
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Here’s my take on things, which is also in my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction:

Auriel/Akatosh and Lorkhan worked on the mortal world together, but a disagreement between the two of them over said mortal world, that we’ll probably never know the truth about, drove the two of them to war. Because Lorkhan lost his heart, which is key to rebirth/renewal (which is something I believe in), he had to rely on how mortals viewed him in order to complete said rebirth.

However, because of the different ways that elves and men viewed him, this caused some… complications, ultimately causing him to split in two, both metaphorically and literally. The light/good half of Lorkhan’s soul became a new god, who took up the name Shor; the dark/evil half became an entirely new deity, dedicated to darkness and evil.

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Any thoughts?

golden sierra
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However, because of the different ways that elves and men viewed him, this caused some… complications, ultimately causing him to split in two, both metaphorically and literally. The light/good half of Lorkhan’s soul became a new god, who took up the name Shor; the dark/evil half became an entirely new deity, dedicated to darkness and evil.
this sounds similar (but not identical) to the Khajiiti pantheon, which has both a positive and negative aspect of Lorkhaj. was inspiration taken from there?

gaunt bear
golden sierra
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huh... i would definitely recommend checking out the Khajiiti pantheon, then!

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it could result in some cool inspiration, and more sources to draw from never hurts 😄

pastel sorrel
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I mean, that's a fanfic take, not really a supported lore take

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The division between AKHAT and LHKAN is there of course, but there's no indication the heart's key to any rebirthing nor that Lorkhan's nature was cloven by mortal belief

golden sierra
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namely Lorkhaj's passage in each of The Dark Spirits and The Sky Spirits

pastel sorrel
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The closest thing would be Lorkhaj, and even then no mortals were involved in that narrative, and he wasn't really "split"; Lorkhaj as he was is dead, Lorkhaj as the Moon Beast is his corrupted corpse being puppeteered by Namiira.

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The only real split would be him re-ascending as Talos in spirit while his old corpse is still used by Namira, but that's much later.

golden sierra
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(i do agree with Serithi's opinion that this is ultimately a fanfic take, but had just kind of ridden with that assumption when it was opened with " .... in my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction". it might have been important to point that out, my bad)

gaunt bear
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To get what I’m going for, imagine two teams of four of equal strength, one of elves and one of men, tugging on a tug-of-war rope, with Lorhkhan as the rope. Because the two teams are equal strength, the rope is fraying in the middle. Eventually, the rope frays so badly in the middle that it breaks apart.

pastel sorrel
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There's no indication that different views can break an et'ada apart. More likely it just sheds off additional aspects from the oversoul as necessary.

gaunt bear
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@pastel sorrel @golden sierra Just remember, this was reported to the Inquisition by a Tengu that was assigned to the Inquisition by Akatosh, and it’s probably distorted by his “mountain asceticism” point of view. All truths are true, in the emerald waters of the fade.

pastel sorrel
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Dude

golden sierra
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is it a "remember" if that wasn't information we were given in the first place?

pastel sorrel
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This is a TES lore channel in BGS's own Discord server

golden sierra
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(in any case, i should head to bed cuz i'm tired af, so foxzzz have fun, y'all)

pastel sorrel
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No offense to your fanfic specifically, but you keep bringing it up as if it's relevant to TES lore, which is the primary topic of discussion

gaunt bear
gaunt bear
turbid tiger
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Has anyone been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

plush orchid
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🤨

gaunt bear
uncut hatch
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Someone broke google translate ;o)

split pond
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That sentence is a part of old internet lore.

gaunt bear
pastel sorrel
gaunt bear
pastel sorrel
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Especially since so far most of your questions have been about getting the lore lined up anyway.

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You also need to consider if they're actually stans to begin with. I can't say I've really seen any in my circles; lorebeards are who you wanna talk to, not just the mass public.

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Ultimately, this is the TES lore channel, in the BGS official Discord. The vast majority of lore knowledge here is going to be TES lore specifically.

split pond
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How would the Empire and the Thalmor react if Hammerfell, Morrowind, and Skyrim became an alliance?

quartz shuttle
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"S'cuse me, what?"

brisk perch
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Hammerfell, High Rock, and Skyrim, sure, Morrowind would take a more significant push, like the Thalmor invading there, to actually convince them to join up

quartz shuttle
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Even then, it's an unlikely alliance. The Hammerfell-High Rock Alliance during the Interregnum was tenuous (though most of those alliances were) and failed to get the entire provinces behind the agreement. Skyrim, in contrast, has not been historically friendly with either High Rock or Hammerfell.

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So, such an alliance would be a significant shock to everyone

golden sierra
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Tbh I could imagine Hammerfell and Skyrim possibly joining up against the mutual enemy of the Thalmor, but I can't really imagine High Rock feeling pressured enough to do so, while Morrowind would be entering a conflict it has no part in while already dealing with Argonians and ash

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I think a liberated Valenwood is vaguely more likely to join than Morrowind, I'm less sure in comparison to High Rock. Hard to say how they'd react tho, we don't know enough about the leaders of the Dominion

quartz shuttle
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A mutual defense agreement, maybe. Though i wouldn't see anything else, unless it's for the sake of Plot Armour.

split pond
gaunt bear
quartz shuttle
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In a functional sense, a curved sword is a superior cutting implement and especially good for use on horseback

split magnet
quartz shuttle
jovial tendon
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Some of them can shout, too

quartz shuttle
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I mean, Trolls can shout. Or does that qualify as a Roar?

jovial tendon
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Fus Roar Duh

quartz shuttle
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I dunno. I still think Trolls have it over Nords in terms of general intelligence. I mean, Trolls are smart enough to suffer from depression.

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That takes a level of existential awareness that i just don't see Nords having.

split magnet
quartz shuttle
split magnet
quartz shuttle
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Vehks brazen balls...

"Most ice go "REEEEE!" but magic ice go "UNFH!""

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You aren't selling the point on Nord Intelligence here 😛

split magnet
quartz shuttle
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Yes, i'm being snarky 😛

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Shalidor is actually one of the prime examples of why Racial Aptitudes are silly, and why Altmer aren't automatically better at Magic smply because they're Altmer

split magnet
ocean brook
quartz shuttle
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Not so clever NOW, are ya?

quartz shuttle
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You know, it occurs to me in doing some digging... I can't find a single source which actually says Alduin forsook his duty as World Eater

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Paarthurnax only says that Alduin took for himself what was rightly Akatosh's... Which makes sense, when Alduin set himself up as the head of the pantheon, a position typically reserved for Akatosh.

dire ermine
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It’s likely Paarthurnax is the only source because nobody but the dragons knew about it

quartz shuttle
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But that's the thing... Not even paarthurnax ever says Alduin abandoned his duty as World Eater

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That idea is literally not present anywhere in the game that i can find

royal coral
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(Disclaimer: I will be asking about Battlespire, which isn't well known compared to the main games lol)

So I realized Josian Kaid and Vatasha Trenelle both have the possibility of being the canon "Apprentice"... but which one is more likely to be the actual apprentice? Is there anything that ever confirmed one way or the other (I doubt it though lol)? Or at least subtle hints that can leave it up to interpretation? Thank you!

quartz shuttle
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As far as i know, there is no information one way or the other. What few references we have to the Apprentice post-Daggerfall are all non-gendered, so we can't really tell

royal coral
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Fair enough. Thank you!

uncut hatch
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Hot take: The Aldmeri Dominion is overhyped and their defeat at the hands of the Empire is inevitable (should the Empire win the Skyrim Civil War that is.)

quartz shuttle
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Well, probably. But should the Empire fall, a collective resistance would be unlikely

gaunt bear
# uncut hatch Hot take: The Aldmeri Dominion is overhyped and their defeat at the hands of the...

That’s actually what I have planned for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction, but it’ll be a little different.

What I’ve got down is that the Thalmor will attack Skyhold because they want the Anchor for their plans, but they’re suffering from overconfidence due to their victory in the Great War, which will lead them to their worst defeat ever. Even Tiber Septim’s attack on Summerset Isle using the Numidium can’t compare to it.

uncut hatch
quartz shuttle
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Well, it's a little more complicated than just that. The Stormcloak leaders, at least, fully recognise the threat of the Aldmeri Dominion. It's just the practical and lower order social aspects that make such an alliance unlikely

quartz shuttle
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Alliances typically require a very clear unified leadership to function in a practical sense, as well as a good deal of unified ground and good will amongst the troops.

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Divided leadership, or animosity amongst the forces, causes them to break apart pretty quick, especially in the face of unified imperialist forces

split pond
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Cool, Skyrim and Hammerfell guards can bond over curved swords.

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On a side note, Stormcloak or Imperial, those guards are some of the most well-informed people in the province.

uncut hatch
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That's why I say a united Empire is best equipped for it.

upper sable
# uncut hatch Hot take: The Aldmeri Dominion is overhyped and their defeat at the hands of the...

the aldmeri only "won" the first war due to the eye of veramina or whatever the artifact was called which allowed them to see enemy movement and just dominate by flanking and just outmanoeuvring the Empire

even then the imperials still managed to win small victories and outsmart them sometimes. The war was more of a draw because out of all the demands the only one they got was the banning of talos. No territory was lost to the dominion itself (after the treaty) only the provinces leaving. and then hammerfell after 5 more years of fighting pushed them back and won.

and the civil war I think is no doubt an imperial victory. in a matter of like 3 months Tulius was able to turn around the war and capture ulfric on his own turf. And equipment and training wise the empire still beats em at that, having the stormcloaks used their personal weapon with cloth and chainmail against a mixture of heavy imperial steel and leather.

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when the next war comes who knows who will win but it will be great to participate in it

quartz shuttle
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I have nothing but contempt for Legends introducing that stupid macguffin

rocky lion
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why would you though

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its still nto even close to being powerful compared to alot of things in tes

quartz shuttle
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Because it was unnecessary and basically just made the Dominion a joke

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The Empire hadn't fought a war in over a century, 5 TIMES the longest period of peace in human history. Like, do you know what that would do to the military readiness of the Empire?

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Having a rival power, which has spent a generation preparing for war, running roughshod over the Empire early on makes perfect sense. Then the larger and more diversified Empire slowly winding up and hitting back and being able to even the playing field as it's commanders gain practical experience, fits perfectly with what we see

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Instead, nope! Stupid magical Macguffin!

rocky lion
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do you know how many items that are several hundred times more powerful exist

quartz shuttle
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It's not it being powerful that i object to. It's that it's entirely unnecessary, and exists for no other reason than for the Nameless Hero to have an easy way to resolve the Dominion's military superiority

upper sable
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and we can see the Empire was still struggling a bit

quartz shuttle
upper sable
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Damn

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was it really that long?

quartz shuttle
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It was indeed

uncut hatch
# quartz shuttle It's not it being powerful that i object to. It's that it's entirely unnecessary...

I don't think Experience would be an issue anymore given the Skyrim Civil War and lessons learned from the First Great War. I'd say the dragonborn would be another wildcard but Bethesda wouldn't have them involved anyways, if ES6 is set during the 2GW then well you already have your hero (If it is, which we don't know. I haven't heard any actual good arguments why it wouldn't. Many more dumber ones that says that it should take place long after the 2GW.) Experience right now might not be an issue if the Empire winning in Skyrim is canon which it likely. A lot of experienced commanders coming from that war and even more experienced Nord soldiers.

quartz shuttle
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If we were talking about a second Great War, then sure. But the Eye of Vaermina was used during the 1st Great War

uncut hatch
uncut hatch
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Afaik, Anu and Padomay, and Aedra and Daedra aren't necessarily so called gods, rather they are open to interpretation. Thus so many varying accounts about them. They exist but people of Nirn have their beliefs about them.

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Like one can believe them to be gods or just beings

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Am I correct?

brave kernel
gaunt bear
#

I’ve got a question for something I’m working on for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction:

——

In it, The Inquisitor and the Dragonborn are sent backwards through time to the time of the Dragon War. In it, they find an exiled Dwemer scientist who’s obsessed with using Alteration magic for more than what’s originally possible. However, this obsession led him to being ostracized, and ultimately banished from his own people, causing him to become half-cracked. Sheogorath, however, grants him “insane insight”, which ultimately gets him stuck with the Dragon Cult, who semi-force him to create a army of hybrid demon/Daedra and mortals (not just men or elves).

——

So my questions are:

#

— Can Dwemer be driven out of their own society due to their views?

#

— Can mortals and demons/daedra crossbreed?

#

— Can Alteration, theoretically, physically reshape life, not just minerals (turn iron into silver, silver to gold)?

brittle cobalt
uncut hatch
#

Who gained power

brave kernel
#

What's the difference?

pastel sorrel
pastel sorrel
brave kernel
pastel sorrel
#

There's no real one definition beyond "they're accepted as a god, whatever that entails"

brave kernel
#

Right exactly "they are accepted as a god". Belief makes reality. Mythopoeia

uncut hatch
#

In Skyrim, it is often shown that there varying beliefs

#

The so called gods are not shown as actual gods

#

With the Psijic belief as an option, it is up to us what to call them.

#

From my experience, its all open to interpretation

brave kernel
#

What's an "actual god" though?

quartz shuttle
#

The Psijic perspective doesn't discount the existence of immensely powerful spirits doing immensely impressive things. It just posits that all beings as Spirits of varying powers, with 'gods' being the most powerful

jovial tendon
#

Define "god"

#

Right, actually Nazz just said that, my bad 😁

quartz shuttle
#

Any object of worship perceived to be responsible for some aspect of existence.

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😛

jovial tendon
#

So it doesn't actually have to have any power whatsoever

#

Water is a god if you worship it? 🙂

#

In that case there are definitely gods in the Elder Scrolls universe

#

But yeah, I'm not attempting to argue anything, just my point is that in fantasy, the word is thrown around pretty freely

quartz shuttle
jovial tendon
#

Right right so what you're saying is that it doesn't have to be an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being

#

Seeing as though fantasy settings do often have actual gods that are actually just that

quartz shuttle
#

It certainly hasn't had to be for most peoples.

#

The difference being, of course, that in the real world the existence of a god or gods is questionable. In most fantasy settings, there ARE beings responsible for some aspects of existence

#

Though the Psijics posit that these beings are simply at the top of a hierarchy of spirits, and that their mantle of 'god' simply comes from the perspective of those below them

jovial tendon
#

Exactly, so my question was towards, like, is someone or something a "god" just because some random worshippers decided to call it that, or does it actually have to be something with those kinds of attributes

quartz shuttle
#

So, in principle, anything a rung up the ladder could be considered a god

#

Take the Tribunal for instance. They were head and shoulders above Mortals in basically every way. So, they were justifiably gods.

#

They were still below Aedra and Daedra in an absolute sense, but above the Mortals who gave them the title of gods

#

In principle, a dog could view humans as gods in this sense

jovial tendon
#

I suppose the problem lies in the age old problem that a mortal being can't know the difference between a powerful being that looks like a god but isn't one, and one that actually is a god, in the sense that is has godlike powers

#

So then beings that are more powerful are called gods just because they're just so darn impressive

brave kernel
#

But now you're back to the "what is a god" question. Which I don't think is particularly helpful especially in a setting like TES. Drawing from real world religions plenty of gods are born, and or die. And aren't omnipotent. Their worshipers certainly thought they were gods. Its that belief that is the important piece.

jovial tendon
#

Well it's only important in defining what and who is called a god by its worshippers

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I'm more interested in defining it from an outside observer, rulebook point of view

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When it comes to any setting really, not just Elder Scrolls

#

Which I suppose is pretty subjective and unless canonized by the author, would be an ongoing debate

quartz shuttle
#

In terms of TES, a god is basically any sufficiently powerful immortal entity.

#

If they lose power, or stop being immortal, well... they stop being gods.

brisk perch
#

To my knowledge, in TES, a "god" is as you said, any sufficiently powerful entity, does not even have to be immortal, but they must either have a power source to restore their power, or be sufficiently worshiped, to attain or maintain their divinity. The "god" may not be the same entity or entities that were originally mortal, if they were mortal at all to begin with. Sometimes there are different versions of the same "god" that act differently based on peoples beliefs. The Divines and Aedra seem less active in mortal affairs, and may have more difficulty performing their miracles on a case by case basis, and may need mortal/s to perform the acts for them, like needing a priest or similar to perform a major cure, like to cure vampirism. The Daedric Princes are stronger than the Aedra generally, since they apparently did not give up their power in the creation of Nirn, and are supposedly completely immortal, but are more limited in scope and can be outdone by mortals wielding even a little of the Aedra's powers. Magna-Ge, those spirits that abandoned the creation of Nirn partway through due to conflicting accounts of how the work broke down and begun a war of manifest metaphors, but they're generally only interacting in very small ways, or specific odd jobs, like helping to fix Dragonbreaks. Above everything is the Godhead, a maybe singular entity who is the only omnipotent force within the Aurbis, the collective of all that is in TES. The Godhead may or may not conscious anymore, and they are essentially dreaming everything in TES. There may be more than one Godhead but each seems to have their own separate universe, and give up their individuality in order to create and maintain their own universe, but much of the details are deuterocanon.

jovial tendon
#

I thought Anu was the one at the very top

pastel sorrel
#

Dreamer!Anu is the one at the top, there's no indication of any parallel dreams per se.

jovial tendon
#

Is this Godhead stuff actual in-game canon or just some outside thing

pastel sorrel
#

Primarily OOG, but occasionally poked at ingame. One of the Black Books mentions the Godhead, for instance.

jovial tendon
#

All I can see from it is something a former designer wrote

pastel sorrel
#

And of course the Anuad itself which first provided the concept.

jovial tendon
#

Gotcha gotcha

pastel sorrel
#

As for the gods, again, it's a subjective topic; what is that "sufficient power" level, and what makes their power "godly" in the first place?

brisk perch
#

Anu may or may not be at the top, according to Elvish religions generally Anu is the Godhead, but Anu and Padomay are both part of the Godhead, so are we and everyone else who has not achieved Amaranth, the process for becoming a new Godhead.

pastel sorrel
#

Especially since also, mortal life is literally made of those godly beings who formed the Mundus and continue to run it.

jovial tendon
#

This whole Godhead thing seems like a bit too obvious and on the nose of a fourth wall breaking joke about how we're in a game and it's all just a dream and we're the ultimate god because we can do anything in a sandbox game 😁

pastel sorrel
#

Not really?

jovial tendon
#

Well, it does to me 🤷‍♂️

pastel sorrel
#

It's an idea in multiple IRL mythologies and religions, which TES does draw from. You can find plenty of Eastern concepts that would fit the bill.

jovial tendon
#

Also in Morrowind and Skyrim we wake up (kind of as well in Oblivion although we just start standing I think), so...we wake up because we're the dreamer! 🙂

#

But then, real life is what we've been dreaming and the game is the actual real life

brisk perch
#

Trying to figure out where the player characters, I.E. The Prisoner, fit into the lore is a whole other can of worms, mostly in speculation, though

quartz shuttle
#

The Godhead thing is best viewed less as a 4th wall thing, and more like Azathoth

robust lintel
#

(This is just for fun) In theory, say each player character from each TES game were all pitted against each other. Which one would win?

quartz shuttle
#

Assuming the CoC isn't Sheogorath in this situation, my moneyis always on the Nerevarine.

gaunt bear
#

You can see it in his eyes. The “old” Sheogorath had catlike eyes; the “new” Sheogorath looks blind.

quartz shuttle
#

Silly mortal. daedra don't have eyes

gaunt bear
quartz shuttle
#

Daedra are nebulous spiritaul beings that are sustained by raw creatia. They only assume physical forms when dealing with mortals because monkey brains can't handle the abstract reality of their existence

#

'Eyes' are physical organs. Daedra don't REALLY have those

gaunt bear
quartz shuttle
#

He also looked different in Daggerfall.

gaunt bear
#

Then why is Sheogorath now about curing madness rather than causing it?

quartz shuttle
#

Is he? He's pretty clear on the TREATING part of it. And how you can't ever really be free from madness

gaunt bear
quartz shuttle
#

Because he's in a good mood? Why didn't he just flay you alive on a whim in Shivering Isles?

#

The core message of the Skyrim quest is about making the PC understand a bit of madness. And understanding madness is a dangerous thing.

#

Sheo even freely admits that you can never CURE Pelagius, all you can do is make it better for a little while. But madness always comes back.

#

Still, the initially point was whether or not we include the CoC as literally being Sheogorath. At which point, he's not the CoC anymore, he's Sheogorath, so that shouldn't count in a competition of PCs

uncut hatch
#

They worship them, yes

#

But that doesn't mean they aren't simply spirits

brisk perch
#

I'm pretty sure that daedra have referred to themselves having eyes multiple times, but this is more a limitation of our understanding and trying to put it in terms we can comprehend. It's like trying to explain field theories, what you see is not what is necessarily there.

robust lintel
#

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/f137ddea-42e9-4b99-b607-a0dd835faf61/d96yt2m-25d61809-7155-4adb-a1fd-02344bc86106.gif?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2YxMzdkZGVhLTQyZTktNGI5OS1iNjA3LWEwZGQ4MzVmYWY2MVwvZDk2eXQybS0yNWQ2MTgwOS03MTU1LTRhZGItYTFmZC0wMjM0NGJjODYxMDYuZ2lmIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.tAwZIoup5p0ItWQ4pU_uJBQIzcivUa83YH5uyM9q20M

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Evening mortals

uncut hatch
#

The Godhead is actually Todd Howard

royal coral
#

I apologize for the randomness, honestly I'm a random person... but do bananas ever make a canon appearance in TES?

#

Update: Upon research, I've found a new reason to play ESO lol

uncut hatch
royal coral
quartz shuttle
robust lintel
gaunt bear
#

🍌

robust lintel
#

🍒

royal coral
#

Did... did I just accidentally convert a TES channel to bananaism?

#

Not even Sheogorath could do that!

quartz shuttle
#

Of courae not, because he prefers cheese

royal coral
gaunt bear
split magnet
#

🍌 + 🍦 = 🍌 🤝

#

There aren't enough emojis.

royal coral
pastel sorrel
mellow grotto
#

If Soul Tomatoes are statistically Grand Soul Gems, Soul Bananas must be statistically Black Soul Gems.

mellow grotto
#

Speaking of Soul Gems, I'm not convinced that The Black Star is corrupted, I think it's the purified form of Azura's Star as it's free from her Daedric influence. Part of this theory relies on another theory that the Ideal Masters were the ones who invented Soul Gems, and they were once mortal so they're technically not Daedra.

quartz shuttle
#

The issue there is, Azura's Star has always been associated with her, and has no known link between the Ideal Masters and the Star.

mellow grotto
#

She might have created The Star, but it's still a soul gem. Lore suggests that Molag Bal invented soul gems, but the evidence for that is the Imperial Census of Daedra Lords, which is unofficial text, and it doesn't take the Ideal Masters into consideration.

We know that they existed since the mythic era (though we don't know where specifically, likely before White Gold Tower was built since it's stone is a soul gem), and it's already established that used soul gems sends the contained victim to the Soul Cairn.

Based on the fact that soul gems are basically everywhere in the Soul Cairn, specifically within the bodies of the Blessed Dead, and the physical conduits of the Ideal Masters are giant black soul gems, it seems that they were the inventors of soul gems, and Azura must have created The Star based on their invention.

However, The Star could've been created by someone else, but at some point, it became Azura's artifact, similar to how Volendrung was a Dwemer warhammer before being associated with Malacath.

dire ermine
#

Or like Spellguard becoming and artifact of Peryite despite being dwemer-crafted

quartz shuttle
#

Does it follow that the Ideal Masters are the inventors of Soul Gems, or just the first ones to utilise them? And thus far, the only ones to utilise them to that degree

mellow grotto
#

Perhaps, but that doesn't explain why all of the generic soul gem types have a direct connection to the Soul Cairn. Although Serana believes that it's only black souls that are sent there, we see evidence that it also applies to white souls. Examples include the soul fissures that fill a random white soul gem (this implies that white souls are typically not powerful or individualistic enough to manifest physically within the Soul Cairn), the Blessed Dead who drop random soul gems, the souls of cows at one part of the Soul Cairn, and Arvak.

Like I said again, the Ideal Masters have existed since the mythic era, and I theorize that they invented soul gems for the purposes of soul trading with mortals. The only argument against the idea that they invented soul gems is the geodes in Blackreach. This might imply that soul gems have existed since Nirn was created, or that the Dwemer were "growing" soul gems for their automatons. So thinking about it, the true answer is that we simply don't know, although I do believe that they were an invention.

gaunt bear
#

I say that both the Ideal Masters and the Soul Cairn are the way they are because of the Middle Dawn. They were originally a group of Necromancers who took advantage of the Chaos of that Era in order to become like gods, if not true ones. When the Middle Dawn Ended, however, the source of their divinity vanished, leaving them in quite the predicament.

mellow grotto
#

I don't think they're in any predicament, it's clear that the Ideal Masters view their current forms and the state of the Soul Cairn as a form of eternal peace. They don't seem to have any plans to fix their current state given how they're reluctant to spend magicka to do anything, and they seem keen on the idea of sleeping for the rest of time. See also The Book of Life and Service, which reinforces the notion that they fully support their status quo.

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Really, all of Nirn can count their lucky cosmic-sized magicka holes that the Ideal Masters have no ambition to invade. Given how countless soul gems have been used since the mythic era, they must have an almost infinite supply of magicka, so if they were to invade, they'd be almost unstoppable. They either know that invading would cut them away from a steady stream of infinite souls, or they're too lazy to invade, likely both.

uncut hatch
#

That and such a event would likely see direct Aedric Intervention

quartz shuttle
mellow grotto
quartz shuttle
#

Vastarie uses the Black Soul Gems to contain souls which she can then release and engage with as she needs to for her studies, before eventually releasing entirely. None of hte souls she eventually releases seem to go to the Soul Cairn

#

And she got her Black Soul Gems directly from Molag Bal apparently.

quartz shuttle
#

Similarly, the Chim-el was also a soul gem, capable of storing and many souls, which could be accessed in a similar manner.

#

Which raises questions about the actual versatility of Soul Gems in general. If they can be used in such a manner, then they clearly can't always be rendered inert when the soul inside is released. Why, then, does that seem to happen woth most?

#

Then you've got the whole Dwemer problem. Their constructs use them to channel an indeterminate powersource that causes their boolers to work. And we seem to be able to mine Soul Gems directly from ore deposits in Blackreach. So they seem to be naturally occuring and in relatively ample supply.

#

I would posit that the Ideal Masters didn't create them, but they DID pioneer their use and experemented with far more exotic applications for them.

#

The preservation of the self, free from the failings of flesh, for instance.

mellow grotto
#

Then we have the necromantic trick that Serana pulls by partially soul-trapping the dragonborn to allow them to gain entry in the Soul Cairn. Soul gems also have been used to maintain forcefields (see Nightcaller Temple), and Chim-el was said to be made to trap the soul of a Daedric Prince. The possibilities for soul gems seem to be endless, too bad the Psijic Order, and by extension the Mages Guild, were ban-happy manbabies that would rather see the world burn than allow necromancy to advance as an art.

quartz shuttle
#

The main advocate for Necromancy being a power hungry lunatic probably didn't help there. Like Eugenics, the application of the idea ultimately determines its moral value.

mellow grotto
#

It's disturbingly amusing that the mainstream necromancy bans were done purely out of spite. Vanus Galerion tried to ban the art because he hated Mannimarco, so he tried to throw the baby out of the bathwater before he was forced to lift the ban on soul trapping. Don't even get me started on Hannibal Traven's ban, had he not tried to ban necromancy from his power trip, he wouldn't have alienated about half of the Mages Guild and sent the rest to an unnecessary war with the Worm Cult that ultimately doomed the Guild.

#

This ultimately demonstrates that trying to ban necromancy is too much trouble than it's worth, and it's historically never worked in the long run.

quartz shuttle
#

As much as i think Oblivion shows just how colossally stupid the Mages Guild had become, i don't think it can all be blamed on Traven there.

#

Reasonable people don't run to the Cult of Worms when their research gets canned.

#

What Traven did was just show how deeply entrenched the Cult of Worms was in the Mages Guild already. But of course, by that point it was already too late

mellow grotto
#

Yeah, but his ban definitely encouraged most alienated members of the Guild to instantly join the Cult on mass. It was basically a self-fulfilling prophecy that forced the Mages Guild into an unnecessary war. In the end, they set themselves up to eventual dissolution with the anti-magic sentiment that rose after the Oblivion Crisis because at that point, the Arcane Council was basically dead, and the CoC left to become a madman.

quartz shuttle
#

While i think it definitely undermined faith in the guild and led to a lot of people just up and leaving, thus facilitating the Guild's collapse... I doubt anyone went running to the Cult of Worms that wasn't already a member

#

That's like joining the Mafia because your boss at a law firm just ordered no more criminal cases to be accepted.

mellow grotto
#

But not all necromancers in the Guild were part of the Worm Cult, just ask Ulliceta gra-Kogg from The Black Arts on Trial. She was advocating for necromancy to be used to hunt undead, and she wasn't part of the cult. Didn't matter to Traven, he used the Order of the Lamp to witch-hunt her while that same book demonstrated he was very knight templar with his attitude towards necromancy.

#

Oh he does claim that necromancy being used to hunt undead should not be banned, but only within his approved strict vision, which likely means turn any necromancers that weren't turned-off by his ban into glorified clerics.

quartz shuttle
#

And in that regard i do agree that his ban did create divisions which led to the ultimate death of the Guild. I just disagree that it made the whole Mannimarco thing worse.

#

Those Worm Cult members were already there, all it did was flush them out. Too little, too late.

#

And lets be real, if the Mages Guild couldn't contend with that 3rd rate impostor, they weren't fit to keep functioning anyway

mellow grotto
#

I'm arguing that there could've been a much better nuanced approach to the Worm Cult situation than do what Vanus did by throwing the baby out of the bathwater.

quartz shuttle
#

Oh, absolutely. But even a nuanced approach wouldn't have saved them

#

God forbid the real King of Worms came calling

mellow grotto
#

And out of all this, the Telvanni still lives on in the 4th era.

quartz shuttle
#

Largely self sufficient xenophobic isolationists do tend to last quite a while

glacial scarab
mellow grotto
#

This brings me back to my original point that necromancy bans simply don't work, and the people that do these bans usually act from emotion rather than logic. This is what annoys me with Vanus Galerion's ban on necromancy because it was done to spite Mannimarco, not to mention his knee-jerk reaction to soul gems even though they're fundamental to the school of enchantment. It doesn't help that he's a hypocrite since he's willing to summon Dremora to fight for his battles (see "I was Summoned by a Mortal").

Hannibal Traven's ban was bad because like I said again, he was very knight templar with his attitude towards necromancy. Even if you can argue that he was doing it to weed the Worm Cult out of the Guild, his solution was basically bringing a sledgehammer to a problem that required a scalpel. His actions permanently ruined the reputation of the Mages Guild, which could've been salvaged after the inevitable blow to them with the anti-magic sentiment that rose after the oblivion crisis.

quartz shuttle
# glacial scarab Traven was arresting Necromancers for the crime of Necromancy. Problem is Necrom...

The Mages Guild had (for some reason) become the legislative authority on Magic in the Empire by the time of Oblivion. We can probably chock that up to another of Ocato's long list of blunders. So ultimately it was they who decided what was and was not legal in regards to magic.

And sure, practi e necromanct, get arrested. Or, stop practicing and be fine. Tamriel isn't NoxX, Necromancers aren't a ethnic group who can't change their nature.

Now, does that make anything Traven did remotely intelligent? God no. But if it drove anyone to the Cult of Worms, then they were even stupider than he was.

If he had engaged in some soviet era roundup of all Necromantic academics without warning, regardless of whether they were actively practicing or not, then maybe. But he didn't.

#

Even then, it would have been more likely to drive people underground to work independently, tham into the arms of a known terrorist group

mellow grotto
#

Funnily enough, some necromancers can agree that Hannibal Traven was well meaning but foolish (see The Exodus).

quartz shuttle
#

Yeah... the empire of Uriel7 seems to have been chock full of well meaning morons

mellow grotto
#

So, exactly like real-world politics.

quartz shuttle
#

In many ways.

glacial scarab
quartz shuttle
#

I've seen it in Morrowind, but not Oblivion.

glacial scarab
quartz shuttle
#

Fair enough

#

Just goes to show just how poorly Oblivion is put together, when it's got so much conflicting information

glacial scarab
#

Morrowind if I recall has a book made by a Necromancer who talks about Necromancy in the provinces.

quartz shuttle
#

There's also a particular Necromancer the Temple sends you after who defends himself by saying Necromancy is legal in the Empire. So yeah, as of Morrowind, it's definitely not a problem

#

Still, Traven's ban driving people to the Cult of Worms doesn't make any sense.

#

You don't sign up with a radical terrorist group because your university bans your field of study, and then sends mercs to arrest you

#

If you DO, well... you probably weren'ton the ethical side of the research in the first place.

sharp lantern
#

Good riddance to the Mages Guild. Necromancy should be a completely legal (if heavily regulated) field of study.

quartz shuttle
#

I mean, ALL magic should be

sharp lantern
#

Yeah

#

I never really understood why it was ''so bad'' to raise the dead, but literally controlling someone's mind through illusion is okay according to the Mages Guild.

quartz shuttle
#

Something something sanctity of the dead

#

Its probably more a holdover from real world hoodoo than anything grounded in the setting

#

This particular aspect of TES (as in, Magic in general) is really piecemeal and cobbled together at the best of times

sharp lantern
#

Yeah

mellow grotto
#

It's only evil when it's necromancy. Just ignore Destruction magic, you know, the school most closely associated with magic-related war crimes. Who cares about the fact that burning living creatures alive is a horrible way to kill them, fireball go brrrr.

quartz shuttle
#

Yeah, one of the problems with a magic system tossed in there in the days of "Its magic, i don't gotta explain ****"

mellow grotto
#

If you couldn't tell, I was mocking the Redguards' cultural attitude towards necromancy vs. destruction magic.

quartz shuttle
#

Yeah

#

And i was just criticizing magic as a whole in the setting

#

Especially for a setting that wants Magic to be a technical and academic field of study internally, its incobsisten and almost whimsical approach to it externally is infuriating

#

Magic does what it needs to do, whenever it needs to, and is percieved as whatever it needs to be for the sake of whatever plot is being told.

#

Magic is probably the weakest part of the settings worldbuilding

#

Though, after a conversation elsewhere, it seems Traven is in good company. The other 2 Archmaged we have, Trebonus and Savos, are also incredibly stupid and dangerously reckless.

mellow grotto
#

At least later TES games got a bit better with their attitude towards necromancy after Oblivion. The College of Winterhold is at best neutral towards it, and people in Skyrim are distrustful of magic in general. The only true anti-necromancy sentiment comes from Solitude but the fear is justified due to Potema. Dawnguard gave us Serana, a good person who happens to be a necromancer, ESO gave us the necromancer class, and Skyrim Anniversary Edition gave us Necromantic Grimoire and Gallows Hall. With the Activison Blizzard acquisition happening in the future (same Blizzard that has Diablo, a series that puts necromancers in a neutral light), I can tell that necromancy in TES 6 is going to be more fun.

quartz shuttle
#

Theres nothing really to suggest the Activision Blizzard acquisition will have any impact on TES

mellow grotto
#

After the acquisition happens, Microsoft will own the IPs, so copyright infringement will not be a problem between those owned companies. This loophole is how Mojang got the actual "woololo" sound effect from Age of Empires into Minecraft.

#

But nonetheless, this is irrelevant to this channel.

quartz shuttle
#

True, sorta, but theres a wider issue of everything else. Mechanically, nothing in Diablo translates, and would have to be built from the ground up. Logistically, the teams have never worked together, and are on opposite sides of the country.

And, most importantly, Necromancy is a very different thing in TES, and porting over ideas from other games without considering integration would just make it even more of a mess.

#

Does that mean I'd be against more necromancy? No, not at all... but Diablo's Necromancy has no place in TES on any level

#

Necromancy as an expansion of a Conjuration specialisaton would be great though

mellow grotto
#

Indeed, I'm thinking more of making necromancy that's inspired by Diablo, obviously made in a way that fits within the style of TES. I would love to see TES's take on death knights from WoW.

#

Considering that Breton Spell Knights exist, having an order of Breton death knights would be awesome.

quartz shuttle
#

I think we'd see something derived from Fallout 4s Mechanist dlc

mellow grotto
#

Necrotech DLC? Don't mind if I do.

quartz shuttle
#

Building a Flesh Atronach and such

mellow grotto
#

Funny that you mention Flesh Atronachs, have you noticed that they've been designed with more sophisticated forms throughout TES? In ESO, they're misshapen hulks of flesh, but in Daggerfall and especially Shivering Isles, they're much more humanoid, and the Gatekeeper has actual emotion. That might have something to do with different styles, but I'm imagining that the forms of Flesh Atronachs advance to the point where they become a race of Daedric Cenobites.

quartz shuttle
#

I think, if we ever see Sanguine's realm, its inner areas should look more Hellraiser.

#

But i suspect the sophistication, in lore, can be explained by the Daedra used in creating the Flesh Atronach.

#

The more powerful and intelligent, the mkre sophisticated the meat suit yoh stuff it in

keen turtle
#

i noticed an oddity, moth priests are blind but they also have a weird awareness of their surroundings, is it possible that they have the power to see without being able to see even if its to a limited degree

dire ermine
robust lintel
proven moss
#

But given this is a magical world, it could be an explanation.

keen turtle
# robust lintel Yes. If you think about like this, perhaps what see with the the eyes alone is m...

i like to think maybe moth priests can sort of use a magical vission, it doent see like eyes but lets them sort of see the shape of what is around them or in front of them, this explains why Varin Aqualerius aka the prophit told the vestage to go up the stairs, he could see there was stairs because he could see its shape? this could also explain why moth priests dont need a stick or anything to find their way and never get lost when the scrolls take their vision, it could be an extra sight

robust lintel
#

Like the sixth sense or mind's eye lol

pastel sorrel
#

They only go fully blind with their final scroll reading, which varies on a personal basis. Their vision degrades with each reading, but they're not outright blinded until that final one.

#

There's also no indication they have any kind of special sight. They're very obviously still using regular eyesight from what we've seen and heard of them.

#

The scrolls are hardly a "true vision" of anything other than a possible future of many, and they're rarely clear-cut in their messages.

#

Especially also given the bottleneck of mortal minds trying to comprehend divinity (see why the moons appear as spheres to us), there's really no getting at what the scrolls are doing unless someone with divine power would like to step in and take a gander at them.

keen turtle
#

if the prophet has that sort of awareness of his surroundings even after their last viewing

keen turtle
#

septimus signus was given knowlege of the inner workings of a dwemer lockbox left behind by the nevernarine when they sealed away a copy of the ogma infinium

#

in case of gleaming knowldge from an elder scroll it damages the mind

#

not the sight

pastel sorrel
keen turtle
pastel sorrel
#

You would assume wrong, as such a capability has never been shown or mentioned

keen turtle
#

the ones completely blinded in oblivion displayed an awareness of their surroundings like varen

#

i think its something thats supposed to be enfered not told

pastel sorrel
#

Of course they're aware, they'd have to be, they're blind or near-blind and reliant on their other senses.

#

But they don't actually see us, or the final TG quest in TES4 breaks down.

keen turtle
pastel sorrel
keen turtle
#

i think their magic sight would be seeing outlines and shapes

pastel sorrel
#

Outlines and shapes would be plenty to recognize we're obviously not a fellow moth priest

keen turtle
pastel sorrel
#

the Nerevarine had extremely little knowledge of their inner workings, I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Like every plan we get ahold of has to be given to other people to make sense of, and in the case of Yagrum he even outright refuses to elaborate on stuff like the Numidium because he wants that knowledge to die with Kagrenac.

keen turtle
keen turtle
pastel sorrel
#

... Right, so have many other people without ever getting to learn much

#

I have in fact played a ton of TES3 and TES overall

keen turtle
#

there's no other indovidual who would know enough about it especially since the nevanarine may also have learned more from the last dwemer to restore his blade of his first life

#

and more after that before leaving for akavir

pastel sorrel
#

Again, the Nerevarine learned basically nothing from that. It's Radac who does all the work, and he didn't exactly pass the teachings along.

#

like the whole point literally was that Radac was needed for it

#

At no point do we learn more than some super basic surface-level details in all of TES3, the Dwemer are kept mysterious as per usual

keen turtle
#

the only others who know enough is radac or one of the last of the tribunal ie vivec since canonically vivec isnt dead he just vanished

pastel sorrel
#

That's not mutually exclusive, he could be gone because he's dead. He's not really going to come up again except in reference, his time in the narrative is done with.

keen turtle
#

anyway thats moot, the elder scrolls if you are willing to let your mind be damaged can learn a lot of knowldge and secret lore

#

i think the scrolls would more likely hold different answers to different questions

pastel sorrel
#

I don't recall ever seeing any indication the scrolls can damage the mind. Seems more like either Septimus had too much contact with Apocrypha, or he was just already kinda off-kilter well before he started.

#

Ultimately he's just a pawn of Mora anyway.

keen turtle
#

he can't comprihend the secret lore he learned which he tries to explain in remunations book

pastel sorrel
#

Oh, there's the line, tucked in the middle.

#

Seems less a property of the scrolls directly and more "this is what you get for trying to open your mind to the divine, mortal" that happens elsewhere too

keen turtle
#

and the answers you find you may not be able to comprehend either so any explanation you give would be as incoherent as the remunations book

#

septimus was as far gone as he was because he read 2 elder scrolls in his lifetime

keen turtle
#

thats actually an interesting thought, how can old herma mora influence a reading of an elder scroll

pastel sorrel
#

Mora basically is a walking elder scroll at this point, I'd be surprised if he couldn't influence them.

#

Hoarder of knowledge and influencer of fate, built out of castaway ideas of creation itself. He's the scroll with blackjack and hookers.

keen turtle
#

yeah i figured as much because he made septimus signus an unwitting servant though tainting a reading

keen turtle
#

if herma mora is powerful enough to influence the reading of an elder scroll, it means that we also should take many of the prophecies with a grain of salt lest herma mora plant false visions to the readers who seek to know things yet to come

#

this includes broken prophecies like the prophecy of the last dragonborn

#

because that one is interesting, they're the last only until they killed alduin

#

also, since herma mora has such a powerful awareness of time they could probably influnce events that have already happened

robust lintel
# keen turtle i think the scrolls would more likely hold different answers to different questi...

From what I remember, they had to train to read scrolls. And with their last reading rendering them physically blind. I feel like perhaps bit by bit they are acquiring this "second sight" more and more from each scroll as if it is coming from the scrolls themselves, until they reach it fully and it blinds only what the eyes are capable of seeing.
It's an interesting concept, as if one was looking into the face of a God and going blind. However, not the full image as that could potentially be too much, only tiny fragments which are elder scrolls.

glacial scarab
#

But did he really influence Elder Scrolls or did Elder Scrolls influence him? We barely know anything about the scrolls to accurately tell.

robust lintel
gaunt bear
#

It was because the Tongues ||combined the Thu’um with the power of the Elder Scrolls|| that things are the way they are now, and that’s why ||Alduin returned||.

keen turtle
#

well the prophicy from what i saw predicts the destruction of mundus and we know sometimes prophecies can be averted

keen turtle
# robust lintel From what I remember, they had to train to read scrolls. And with their last rea...

yeah that second sight is enough to have awareness of their surroundings but yeah its not the same as seeing with one's eyes, they won't be reading the scrolls after their final reading but that doesnt mean they can't see in unconventional means even if its just seeing this greyed out outline of objects. this 2nd sight maybe one of those little pitty things the divines give moth priests in compensation for the loss of their sight

#

but still, we dont know to what degree a daedric prince like herma mora possess influence over a reading of an elder scroll

#

or even introduce fake prophecies or even taint a prophecy for his own whim

#

also its ironic that herma mora despite seeing the future is always sabotaging himself

#

yeah, the last dragon born thing only counts if alduin wins

#

no doubt if mundus survivies then other dragon borns will be needed in the future

#

but the dovahkiin may be the last of his kind of dragonborn

#

that is to say a dragonborn who is an antagonist to the dragons

#

i think what will happen next is that the dragons may chose to change or akatosh will change them

#

akatosh did reabsorb alduin back into himself

#

alduin's soul was absorbed by something i like to think it was akatosh, and if akatosh did reabsorb alduin then maybe alduin's oversoul could be reused for something else or a new variant of alduin who's devoid of the corruption of the original alduin

#

as far as i know there are no prophecies that lead past the dragon crisis so maybe we maybe stepping into a future free of prophecy

#

no alduin like all dragons are immortal if slain they live on in their bones until shouted back to life

#

unless absorbed by another dragon

#

or dragonborn

#

something intervined and aborbed alduin's soul or alduin's soul would have been claimed by the dovahkiin

#

alduin was a dragon and he unlike other dragons had a dragon oversoul which still could be claimed by the dragon born since the dovahkiin also has a dragon oversoul, alduin's oversoul was claimed by another

#

not shor but something else and the grey beards said that alduin maybe permitted to return when it is time for the kalpa to end

#

well parhurnax like other dragons cannot see the future he hopes alduin is gone forever

#

they're sensitive to time but cant see the future

#

in my own opinion akatosh reabsorbed alduin because alduin is a fragment of akatosh after all and its likely he was angered by alduin who forsook his place in all things and decided to enslave the mortal realm

#

and he wanted to punish alduin and basically reset him

#

i doubt akatosh would have the power to replace alduin to ensure that the kalpa ends when it should and not when it shouldnt

#

because pathurnax never said that the kalpa cycles were ended

#

he only stated that our actions may have delayed the end

#

plus he did state that dragons can not sense time past time's end

#

yes but the fact that he stated that time has an end means that alduin may return but i don't think it will be the same alduin

#

he was adamant time has an end

#

i think what will happen is that we prevented the premature end of the current kalpa allowing time to play out to its end then alduin will be allowed to return when the time is right to forfil his destiny in ending the kalpa, the divines will then regain their full power again then spend that power creating a new world

#

from what i learned from the lore masters vids a kalpa is the time from time's start to time's end and everything that plays out in that time

#

then alduin steps in at the end of time to unmake the world the divines regain their full power and remake it spending all the power they regained

#

apparently this played out a few times

#

and each time it follows a specific pattern

#

alduin specifically specified that time has a start and end

#

as did parthurnax and other interactable dragons

#

alduin however became corrupted with power in the current kalpa and broke free from his role as the destroyer thus it greatly weakened him

#

its a fundemental thing about aedric creatures they are weaker when they break from their spheres

#

alduin was never supposed to seek power but he did it anyway

#

pathrunax said alduin rejected it

#

and started seeking power

#

you never went through all the dialog options in your playthrough

#

pathrunax said that he rejected his place in favour of lordship

#

onething i think the dragons knew some hoped for at least was that alduin would anger akatosh enough for akatosh to create a dragonborn to stop him

#

this is exactly the point here when he says

#

"Alduin had flown far from the path of right action in his pahlok- the arrogance of his power. "

#

the right action in this statement is being the world eater

#

in favour for power

#

akatosh tasked alduin with one task and one task alone, to end creation at times end to end the kalpa, yet alduin appeared on mundus before the kalpa was supposed to end and with him the dragons

#

from the lore on alduin he's supposed to appear at the end of time

#

Alduin is the world eater the avatar of the end of time to consume the world in the kalpa cycles

#

the fact that alduin had no intention of destroying the world in favour of rebuilding his lordship over mortals proves otherwise

#

there was no evidence behind that

#

the fact that alduin chose to ressurect dragons over destruction showed he was seeking rulership again

#

alduin knew he had neither the power or the means at the time, when he attacked halgan he sensed a dragonborn was there so he attacked in hopes to destroy them, his means were calculating and knew that he had to go about things very differently

#

especially since he would have heard about the dragon guard/blades slaying dragons and the empire to the south means he would have had a much harder time to bring man to their knees

#

unlike during his time

#

well this is alduin's arrogance at play

#

he even said "you dare take the name of dovah"

#

it wasnt doubt but sheer arrogance

#

and he hoped his minion would be enough to kill the dragonborn

#

see if he was going to destroy everything why bother ressurecting other dragons if they would never survive the end

#

his actions make sense if he was trying to establish a power base

#

unfortunatly no, he knew that the mortals in mundus had increased in power and he actually feared the repeat of the events that sent him out of time

#

he was arrogant but also cautious

#

well the number of motals increased in numbers and most were united under banners

#

if alduin tried to attack any of these political powers outright he may have lost many of his followers in the resulting attacks

#

before attacking halgan he would have sourt out surviving dragons and through them learn of the climate of the world

#

he may have learned about the aldmeri dominion and the empire first but then attacked helgan sensing a possible dragonborn there

#

well if you want to regain rule you need to figure out the politics of your foe, alduin may have sused out the civil war and the empire and aldmeri dominion and figured if he wanted to restore the dragon cult he would need followers

#

while alduin can't be slain on the mortal realm doesnt mean he cant be stopped

#

well we don't know that

#

sure the past had legendary heros but we don't know how strong an avarage soldier was back then compared to now

#

but thats the thing these legendary heros of the past were always the exception

#

not the golden standard

#

well thats mainly because the ayleids and dwemmer kept their knowldge a secret so their knowldge died with them

#

but that doesnt mean that the knowldge lost was any more powerful then the knowldge gained

#

no

#

the ayleids allied with the first empire they didnt join it

proven moss
#

I've been watching the conversation with interest, but I wanted to pop in and say I think you guys are getting lost in unimportant minutia. The "strength of mortals," shouldn't even matter in this case. Alduin is a god... or at least a godlike entity with a divine mandate.

keen turtle
#

then the alessian order decided to persicute all elves and slew the last alyeids left

proven moss
#

If Akatosh wants Alduin to eat the world, its gonna happen. Mortal strength be damned.

keen turtle
#

he sort power and greatly weakened his power

#

its why the dovahkiin was able to defeat him so easily

#

alduin was never at his full strength

#

he couldnt ever regain his full strength

#

alduin if you read the lore about him was created as an aspect of akatosh, an avatar made from a fragment of akatosh's power

#

alduin hs been stated many times by many npcs as being a part of akatosh

#

the dovahkiin is also a part of akatosh

#

they liturally are fragments of akatosh

#

Bormau is the dragon name for akatosh

#

lol you don't know much about dragon lore

signal raptor
#

Alright folks. Let's keep it civil please.

keen turtle
#

in lore it was said that the divines sacrificed power to create the mortal realm and akatosh presided over time but time always came to an end, so he created alduin in his own image and told alduin to go forth and end time and each kalpa's end he dutifully carried out this task until the current kalpa where alduin saw mortals form since he stayed longer then before and saw that it was his duty to enslave them thus broke free from his task and started to seek power

#

and this is all in established lore

#

all the lore around alduin says he is the first born of akatosh even the dragons acknowldge this

#

the lore says he was created akatosh is male, he created them in his own image

#

the concept of born is different to dragons then it is to mortals

#

the unofficial elder scrolls pages on alduin

#

look it up

#

and look up the unofficial pages lore on dragons

#

it states very clearly dragons aren't "born" or hatched from eggs, all of them were created from akatosh

#

and it even states alduin is an aspect of akatosh

#

if you read the lore on alduin's creation in the first kalpa it clearly states he was

#

all dragons are in akatosh's image

#

meaning he chose them to be dragons and not an eldrich abomination

#

he could have given them any form he wanted

#

now the unofficial elder scrolls pages arent wikipeida by the way

#

and even the lore books in game state he is an asspect of akatosh in the end of time

#

the ones on alduin i cant remember the specific ones

#

again aspect not avatar

#

that which is akatosh has 3 aspects

#

Auriel at the begining of time akatosh in time's flow and alduin at time's end, each a seperate entity but each a piece of akatosh

signal raptor
#

It would seem this is a good stopping point for this conversation.

white shadow
#

Elder Scrolls Blades Lore! https://youtu.be/IgXJeAltHjY

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Here we are, years into the future since early launch. Why does anyone still play this game? Hear from 12 of the top 100 players on why the #%@K they still play the ELDER SCROLLS BLADES!

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uncut hatch
#

You know, I just realized that by technicality despite Red Year and the two centuries after the Oblivion Crisis, Morrowind never left the Empire. So wouldn't a declaration of war by the Dominion encompass Morrowind as well? Even though the Dominion has no real claims to Morrowind due to sheer distance, they would surely attempt to subjugate the Dark Elves in a second war, wouldn't they?

#

Wouldn't be easy, especially with House Telvanni.

#

Of course, that assumes they are using conventional means. Not some doo hickey they plucked up.

#

Might not be the case by the time they reach Morrowind, again thinking distance here. When it comes to distance especially, the Telvanni wizards are the farthest.

#

I'm not entirely convinced they could conquer many of the other provinces without overextending themselves to be honest. The Redguards already gave them a bloody nose, only Cyrodiil truly almost fell by my recollection. If they managed to get to Skyrim, the Nords would be in a pretty enviable position considering their only ocean access is through the sea of ghosts, and the Nords are natural sailors. There is only three entrances into Skyrim itself over land which are through mountain passes so they could easily defend them. Though, that assumes they attempt to conquer the continent by conventional means. It took Tiber Septim decades to conquer tamriel, and he was chosen by destiny. the Dominion has no such advantage other than their mages.

#

Collecting powerful artifacts on the other hand...

#

Well, sure the Empire gave them a bloody nose. Then again none of what I said really matters since if I recall, complete conquest of the entire continent isnt on the agenda.

#

I guess we'll have to see. I'd like to think that not all elves within the dominion would happily go along with the Thalmor though.

#

I'm talking about within the dominion

#

To me, their worst enemies are those within.

#

Of course there is little info on that

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

Yeah, but thats about it. Imagine if something happened that de-legitmized the Thalmor

#

I think that Summerset is largely merchantile bases no?

pastel sorrel
#

The Thalmor are the government of the Dominion, and they purge dissidents wherever they can. They'll even track them down to foreign lands to deal with them, just look at the Night of Green Fire.

#

They've had two whole centuries to consolidate their rule.

split pond
#

If Alduin or Miraak were left unchecked, how much of a problem would they become for the Thalmor?

pastel sorrel
brisk perch
#

Miraak might end up conquering a portion of the world, but Alduin would be an existential threat to the whole world

robust lintel
#

Does every main villain have some kind of world-ending power that would otherwise expand to affect everyone?

brisk perch
#

Overarching stories for videogames often do, but sometimes it's to conquer, sometimes it's for some kind of major change in society but through using daedric forces

robust lintel
#

So, anything like that in Hammerfell or High Rock that's been left unexplored but could potentially be the next big villain for the next TES chapter? I mean it doesn't necessarily need something on that scale, just exploring what is potentially out there.

#

"Worldskin." That is interesting 🤔

#

Like the serpent that sheds it's skin, perhaps Tamriel as a whole will go through some drastic changes, a time when there is no win or lose.

#

Very interesting lines from the ESO book -Knowing Satakal:
"To know Satakal, consider a river. As a snake sheds its skin and lives on, so a river sheds its water into the sea, yet is reborn at the source."
"To be the Worldskin is to be everything, and to be everything is to be nothing."
"Does not the serpent made of sky above reflect the serpent made of the sea below? Yea, it is so."

robust lintel
#

I used to think that too, but now I'm not so sure they are the same. A dragon isn't a serpent. And I saw something about it being a fusion of the concepts of Anu and Padomay? Though perhaps Alduin is simply a shedded skin of Satakal? I feel like it could have many forms if you know what I mean, but it's main one is the serpent.

#

Only thing I didn't get is that is said many believe King Orgnum to be the serpent God.

#

And what of High Rock? What world-ending potential villains might they have?

robust lintel
#

Yea, seems pretty badass

gaunt bear
#

Got a quick question:

What happened to the Staff of Chaos after TES: Arena?

robust lintel
#

Dang we lost lach

#

Anybody have him on friends list? Need to add to mine

pastel sorrel
gaunt bear
# pastel sorrel What happened to the staff itself is unknown. There's a CC revolving around an a...

I was asking because I put this in my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction:

Thanks to the aid of the Grey Wardens, the Staff of Chaos wasn’t lost after Uriel VII was rescued from Oblivion. In gratitude for being rescued, he gave the title of Eternal Champion to his rescuer and an entire legion of Imperial Soldiers to aid against the Third Blight.

During the final battle against the Archdemon, the Staff’s true strength was unleashed against the Archdemon at the Battle of Hunter Fell, weakening it enough for the Grey Wardens to finish it off. However, such powerful magic caused the staff to shatter back into its component pieces, and cost the Eternal Champion his life.

https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Third_Blight?so=search

In a subplot of the Lost Scrolls, Max and Matthias uncover a Venatori plot to recover and reassemble the Staff of Chaos, leading to a race against evil to prevent it from falling into Corypheus’ blighted hands.

Dragon Age Wiki
Third Blight

The Third Blight began when Toth, the Old God of Fire, awoke in 3:10 Towers, and the darkspawn erupted in the central lands of Thedas in greater numbers than ever before. The darkspawn swarmed the Tevinter cities of Marnas Pell and Vyrantium, as well as the Orlesian cities of Arlesans, Churneau and Montsimmard. The Grey Wardens quickly organized...

pastel sorrel
#

Okay?

#

I'm not sure why you asked if you were ultimately going to decide upon something yourself anyway :v

gaunt bear
compact kiln
#

How did castle karstaag end up in a cliff side?

#

In morrowind it was in an open field

IMG_0435.jpg
#

But in Skyrim it’s in the rocks

IMG_0434.png
glacial scarab
#

Global warming

glacial scarab
#

But seriously the ice has been melting on Solstheim

#

Nah Imperial lies are wrecking havok on Nirns climate. They can't stop lying about anything and everything to the point Solstheim is literally melting

compact kiln
#

I always thought it was a castle made out of ice

glacial scarab
pastel sorrel
gaunt bear
#

There’s a theory going around that Konahriik is Vahlok and that the name is a title. What can you tell us about that?

gaunt bear
pastel sorrel
#

I mean we don't have a specific size for it, but it definitely caused issues all the way out to the mainland

pastel sorrel
gaunt bear
pastel sorrel
#

I mean, Vvardenfell and Morrowind overall in lore would be way bigger than that

#

Cross-referencing what measurements we have, the effects of Red Year went out at least hundreds of miles across Morrowind.

uncut hatch
#

The fact that it happened 196 years or so before the events of skyrim and the fact that theres still ash spewing kinda tells you all you need to know

split pond
#

Is the ash from Red Mount a case of too much of a good thing is bad? Volcanic ash is very fertile.

pastel sorrel
#

The only stuff growing in it is stuff already adapted to the ash, like the aptly named ash yams, and trauma roots, etc.

#

Everything else gets smothered

#

Ash is fertile, but you also need water and sunlight for most stuff that isn't the native plants around Red Mountain and other volcanic areas.

warm herald
#

anyone have something better than my rusty memory to back up the notion that divayth fyr likely wrote the atronach forge manual?

#

ash is great soil; however, it needs to be converted into usable soil first, which takes a few seasons and /can/ take a few years. since it's constantly raining hot ash, maybe we have our cause.

proven moss
warm herald
pastel sorrel
warm herald
gaunt bear
#

I’ve got a question. Do you think the reason why there isn’t too much information on the time period between the collapse of the Akaviri Potentate and the rise of Tiber Septim is because of a Dragon Break?

proven moss
pastel sorrel
gaunt bear
#

Just making sure.

pastel sorrel
#

Dragon breaks are rare and notable. If you have to ask if something relatively mundane was one, the answer's gonna be "no".

gaunt bear
#

I was just wondering why relatively nothing was recorded during that time period.

pastel sorrel
#

Chaos of the Interregnum damaging records, and also whatever measure of the devs just straight up not having anything filled in yet.

#

Plenty was recorded, not all survived, even less has been mentioned pre-ESO.

#

ESO's what's by and large fleshing out the Interregnum, at least its own period within it and beforehand. Still a few centuries to go before Tiber Septim's born, but it's at least something.

warm herald
#

anarchy and discord. Id attribute the lack of documentation to at least one inquisition and possibly two.

#

Only reactionaries deliberately destroy records.

glacial scarab
#

And Daedra

uncut hatch
#

Tell me how to get rid of this? Two days don't pass.. TES online

EDB9DFEF-9050-45A2-80DF-55108317E585.jpg 4F70B048-4F0B-4A71-A403-71B58740CDD6.jpg
glacial scarab
#

feels like a active effect or something that was equipped.

uncut hatch
last sage
#

Perhaps you're being haunted

restive snow
brisk perch
#

I think that's a disguise, most things that are harder to explain in TES can be handwaved as magic. That one seems to be an illusion brought about by forest moths flying around you due to being attracted to the essence of the Kollopi tree. The implications around moths in general and their connection to the Wise Mothman Dibella can open many doors.

warm herald
#

Dibella's Sybil, prophecy, ancestor moths. Attracted to the light, light helps one see. Attracted to beauty, which illumines the ideal form of matter. Etcetc

rich beacon
#

Skyrim-Solitude
Highrock-
Hammerfell-
Sommerset Isle-Alinor
Valenwood-
Elsweyr-
Cyrodiil-Imperial City
Argonia-
Morrowind-Blacklight

What are the other capitals?

warm herald
#

had a thought about Kjenstag.

Kjen, said "KYEN" -> Kyne
Stag -> stay

The weird spiritual energy of the place, the association with renewal of life from undeath, the more ancient association with freezing winds--

This is where Kynareth's husk is buried. She has become a leaf on the wind. TT_TT

#

she was the first to agree to Lorkhan's plan to Make Mortality Happen, so i find it interdasting.

dreamy pulsar
pastel sorrel
#

Also unknown if Helstrom is the capital of Black Marsh since their secession and rise of the An-Xileel.

warm herald
#

For a place named "mountain of steel" Harmugstahl only has one Iron Ore deposit and that makes me want to know where the rest of the mine is. What terrible thing happened and when? Hm.

dreamy pulsar
pastel sorrel
pastel sorrel
warm herald
#

"What is the capital of Assyria?" /ssdd

gaunt bear
gaunt bear
warm herald
rich beacon
#

Capitals as of 4E 201 forgot how important the time period is, but where can you find hints to what the capitals are?

pastel sorrel
#

Capitals as far as we know:
Skyrim - Solitude
High Rock - Daggerfall
Hammerfell - Sentinel
Summerset Isles Alinor - Alinor
Valenwood - Elden Root
Elsweyr Anequina and Pellitine - likely Torval and Rimmen respectively
Cyrodiil - Imperial City
Argonia - not strictly known
Morrowind - Blacklight

desert pike
#

I'm pretty sure Wayrest would be the capital of High Rock, in the 2nd era it was at least. But I'm not sure if there is a central power for the 4-5 kingdoms of High Rock in the 4th era.

pastel sorrel
#

Actually yeah correction, High Rock has 5 since it's 5 different kingdoms right now. @rich beacon

#

Daggerfall, Wayrest, Camlorn, Northpoint, Evermore.

warm herald
#

Given how argonians rule seem to play their politics, it would not surprise me if the "capital" was not a place but a small group of conspiring leaders who can only be reached by messenger because they are always active in the field and could be anywhere. ;p

rich beacon
warm herald
#

Lorewise, im really hoping Madanach survives long enough to take Evermore back for the Reach.

rich beacon
warm herald
#

Correct. It was helstrom. Afaict, they do things in a more byzantine way now. They hide their motives and have seen conquest and defeat--im only guessing the outcome tho. It could still be helstrom.

glacial scarab
glacial scarab
warm herald
#

Breton river raiders from the reach. The River Horse people.

glacial scarab
#

The River Hose people arn't Reachmen

warm herald
#

Ah, did some digging. I forgot some interregnum lore. Durcorach was a conqueror who /sacked/ Evermore etc, even being an Emperor for a time. Still. I hope we havent seen the last of The Forsworn.

glacial scarab
#

They're a Skyrim Reach thing so might be. Western Reach we don't hear of but they didn't have a Markarth incident.

analog needle
#

sorry if this isn't allowed but,

We have just released the official Open Beta test for Accurate World Map!

Come check out the new forum thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/606319/accurate-world-map-a-map-correction-addon-is-now-out-for-beta-testing/p1?new=1

Elder Scrolls Online
Accurate World Map - a map correction addon - is now out for BETA t...

If you've been following my thread titled "I remade the map - this time, everything is perfect" then you'll know that Thal-J and myself have been working on an addon that seeks to fix the Tamriel map and its various inaccuracies.

warm herald
analog needle
# warm herald Any chance you'd have a decent quality tamriel map to share with the class? :)

The first image here is the Anthology Map, which came with the Elder Scrolls Anthology collection. It's regarded as the most accurate and authoritative map to date. It was later rereleased in the Elder Scrolls Cookbook, though it was misprinted where the cities and towns were all warped inwards and in the wrong place. The Anthology Map in particular was my primary reference for how to reshape and realign Tamriel and the zones on the ESO map.

The second image here is my map, which I completely recreated from the ground up. It's the ESO map, but fixed, and higher quality.

anthology_map.jpg Accurate_World_Map_4k.jpg
warm herald
#

That is fantastic. Some wonky waterways never hurt anyone. They change their courses over the years... Nicely done.

analog needle
#

thank you!

#

(though I don't like what ESO did to the rivers)

warm herald
#

Yeah. Time did good things to them I guess ha

analog needle
#

yeah lol

sharp lantern
warm herald
#

I really want to write the likely lorkhan and namira/hircine vs kynareth/shor lore. Some gooooood stuff there. Inspiring for pagans who dont want to appropriate irl cultures.

uncut hatch
#

Do you think if Elves live for hundreds of years does that mean they take longer than humans and orcs (who are known to have roughly the same lifespans as humans) to reach maturity?

dapper river
#

I think that's touched on a little in The Real Barenziah

uncut hatch
pastel sorrel
#

They just are able to then keep going a lot longer before breaking down.

pastel sorrel
dapper river
#

And that would be how they touch on the topic

#

I didn't say that they do take longer, I said the concept is discussed.

uncut hatch
#

It says Barenziah would “become fertile” at 18 in her chronicles. That aside, doesnt the average Mer live say like 200-300 years? That sort of lifespan seems easily achievable for uh, magically talented men and women.

pastel sorrel
#

She falls pregnant with Tiber's child at 17, for that matter.

uncut hatch
summer yacht
#

Keep in mind #rules when posting

shell finch
#

Hey guys meet Elysia

IMG_0668.png
proven moss
shell finch
#

I did she’s named after the first imperial queen

warm herald
#

Hi bb. So cute

plain ibex
#

How are the Black Dart gang's darts so powerful, to the point that they overshadow even Daedric darts? Do they have an ultra-powerful wizard/blacksmith making them or something?

They appear to be made of steel as well, which makes it all the more baffling since tamer designs with mundane materials like that tend to be very ineffective in this series.

Maybe I could even use it to justify modding in some incredibly powerful mundane weapons, who knows?

abstract ledge
#

gameplay balance reasons probably. tribunal and bloodmoon are balanced around end game characters

topaz dome
pastel sorrel
#

Realistically it'd be down to the actual shape of the weapon among other things. The material would just inform how sturdy it is.

#

Same for armor.

#

I dislike the mechanics of stuff just working on artificial numerical values rather than something more physics-based; good armor is well-shaped and fitted and can hold up under duress, even some basic steel armor would be just as good as daedric against the weapons intended to be mitigated by plate. More advanced materials would just be better at holding up.

#

ESO's handling of armor is a better step in the right direction, but there's still work to be done.

zinc wigeon
#

Okay someone please explain to me why, how, and what vivec is

restive vapor
#

He's more of a "who" really

#

And I'm sure a lot of triple O.Gs have formed their own opinions over these long years. I mean I could give you my long-winded, ancient understanding of both sides of that particular coin, but your question in and of itself leaves so much open-ended opportunity for personal bias's or praise that the lifespan of two entire official Bethesda forums and the sheer volume of the time passed since, and you'd still not even really get to the heart of the matter as complex and comprehensive as Vehk is.

zinc wigeon
#

I need atleast something because I keep looking and no one can agree on anything related to him

restive vapor
#

Lol thats exactly right, and ever so wrong all at once

zinc wigeon
#

I am actually scared of how long this is taking you to type

#

Oh god there's another one

proven moss
#

"Never trust the words of a poet, for he was born to seduce"

restive vapor
#

My personal take: he's a thief. He stole something that did not belong to him from a force that was never meant to be meddled in. The meddlers paid, and could be said that He took that too. He definitely stole from his bestie...who also paid. He had some cohorts who stole too, and He even managed to steal the love of a people. Which is an Oceans Eleven type of heist that would make (and probably has) the Thieves Guild ultra irrate, or at least until he stole the hearts of them too. He's the worst thing to ever come about in the Elder Scrolls

zinc wigeon
#

A

restive vapor
#

Man, kids nowadays don't know how deep that quote actaully is

zinc wigeon
#

I never played morrowind I have 0 context as to what you just said

restive vapor
#

No grains of salt needed, it is as Fiore stated

#

He was a poet, until he was a thief. Then became both and nothing somehow at the same time which means He managed to steal from Akatosh as well

zinc wigeon
#

I regret asking now

restive vapor
#

Well don't. How are you ever going to understand if you fear the answer of the question

#

Unfortunately your question is one of the most complex ones in all of Lore

#

That's kinda your bad lol

gaunt bear
#

@zinc wigeon Let me try:

Vivec was one of the False Tribunal (the other two being Almalexia and Sotha Sil). They had used the power of Lorkhan’s heart to become at least partially divine. In doing so, however, they broke an oath they swore in Azura’s name to Indoril Nerevar never to use the heart in the selfish way the dwarves/Dwemer intended to.

zinc wigeon
#

Ah

restive vapor
#

....keep going. Thats like the beginning of the story

gaunt bear
restive vapor
#

no pressure

gaunt bear
#

Okay, here’s part two:

Together with Almalexia, they protected Morrowind and the Dunmer people from various threats. One of the big ones they did, which might or might not have been a good thing, was that they gave the Anumidium to Tiber Septim in for Morrowind’s semi-autonomy, which he then used to unify Tamriel under his rule.

#

However, when Dagoth Ur eventually reared his head, the Tribumal realized that they had to deal with him. What Almalexia and Sotha Sil didn’t know was that Vivec planned to involve the Nerevarine, even if it meant that they would no longer be gods. After Dagoth Ur’s defeat, Almalexia killed Sotha Sil while the Nerevarine killed Almalexia. Vivec’s fate however, is officially unknown.

zinc wigeon
#

Wait so in theory vivec is still alive?

restive vapor
#

no he most certainly is not

zinc wigeon
#

Oh

gaunt bear
# zinc wigeon Wait so in theory vivec is still alive?

There’s actually one of three fates for him:

— He accepted his loss of power with grace, and spent the rest of his life in quiet retirement/meditation.
— The Daedra captured him and put him on trial for daring to make himself equal to them.
— He was slain by a wrathful, unforgiving Nerevarine.

#

In my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction, I chose to do this:

After Dagoth Ur’s defeat, Vivec was successfully initiated into the Grey Wardens as penance for his role in Nerevar’s death. His “past” as a god enables him to * censored to prevent spoilers *. However, fate (me) has declared that he will not live past the Battle of Adamant Fortress.

restive vapor
#

The third one is most likely or at least our interpretation of it since we are Lord Nerevar Incarnate

zinc wigeon
#

That was a smooth way to self promote

gaunt bear
zinc wigeon
#

Yeah

gaunt bear
zinc wigeon
#

Can't tell if that's a sarcastic thank you or not

gaunt bear
#

An honest one.

zinc wigeon
#

Ah

#

No problem

restive vapor
#

However before I wander off back into the A'likr: Lord Nerevar did indeed kill him, however the Elder Scrolls interpretation of afterlife and even death itself is kinda obscured. Factor in His stolen Godhood, how much a vengeful bizzy Azura is, and the rest of his shenanigans as far as the Princes are concerned and never doubt for a moment that The Trial was a figment of your imagination. I should know, since I was there. That first one where he just casually walks off into the sunset and contemplates all his wrong-doing, is a manifestation of pure deceit either orchestrated by Him, or an act of pure mercy given as a gift by the Scrolls themselves. But thats a tale for another time. Until then

warm herald
#

Vivec rejects reality and substitutes his own. All things are true. Even false things.

#

(Especially false things.)

pastel sorrel
# restive vapor The third one is most likely or at least our interpretation of it since we are L...

We don't know that we're Nerevar incarnate for sure, TES3's explicitly written so that it could be either way and it still works, since it's ultimately based around a second-hand prophecy who might've even originated from the being who wants to see it fulfilled the most and is entirely capable of lying and manipulating the actors of that prophecy to that end. Nothing actually proves the Nerevarine to be Nerevar, we merely convince others to believe it for the purpose of getting the job done and can even deny it to Dagoth Ur who accepts that answer if given; even Vivec doesn't truly know either way, he just knows we seem to be capable of fulfilling the prophecy regardless and proceeds with the assumption that we are Nerevar incarnate for its own sake.

#

Even if the Nerevarine was Nerevar incarnate, they're not bound by their prior incarnation's behavour, and we don't know nearly enough about Nerevar himself to know if he'd even be that vengeful anyway. The Tribunal led their people down the wrong path in the end, but they still lead them, and they did so from a fundamental core of the Velothi teachings in their own right. Mephala and Boethiah were probably impressed at what the Tribunal did, notwithstanding being irked at getting usurped from their rulership of the Chimer/Dunmer.

#

Especially also with the Tribunal losing their divinity anyway and Vivec even personally helping to secure the transition back to the worship of the Good Daedra for once he and the other two were gone, killing him by that point wouldn't really matter.

brisk perch
#

Hmm, I wonder, is Herma-Mora responsible for the creation of the elven races? If Xarxes, the ancestor responsible for family lines, scribe of Auriel, and loyal servant of Hermaeus-Mora, is the Ageless One, the one that Herma-Mora that it wants mortals to become...

warm herald
#

The devil inside. The devil inside. /sings along

fluid monolith
#

What would one say at a Divine Shrine?

#

Prayer wise.

harsh topaz
gaunt bear
#

I’ve got a quick question:

Since Wamasu are sometimes called river Dragons, and Dragonlings also exist, what qualifies something as a Dovah or Not-A-Dovah?

proven moss
#

One might argue intelligence but the Dragonlings of Daggerfall have a language, so that guarantees they have fairly advanced intelligence too.

pastel sorrel
robust lintel
#

Is this like Khajiit and Sabre cats?

pastel sorrel
#

That's... not really a useful nor accurate argument? In the context of TES, it's pretty firmly established what a dragon actually is.

#

TES5 specifically clarifies that the dragonlings and whatnot of High Rock aren't actually real dragons, just unrelated creatures that happen to resemble them. It's effectively a retcon, but it's situated now.

#

Saying "categories aren't real" misses the entire point of categories.

#

That's like saying "language isn't real so any sound can mean anything", which yeah, of course it can, but that's not really the full story of its utilization.

#

No, because you're still missing the point.

#

No, I'm very well aware of your point. The issue is it's not a very good one.

#

I'd rather actually make a productive argument if you don't mind. Technically, you can call anything a dovah. Doesn't mean you're right to do so, because dovah are not "anything", they're an established species in TES that don't include other beings; it'd be like saying I can call a jellyfish a bird. I can, but that's still not what birds are, that's not what jellyfish are.

#

Did you only just recently discover the subjective nature of language or something? You're trying to speak of a surface-level concept as if it's something profound or outside the understanding of the other people in this conversation. You're completely ignoring the concept of canonicity of a fictional work, wherein it establishes the rules and concepts and names that make up that work's body of canon. I'm well aware that no objective word exists, but unless you're doing to try and claim "canon doesn't exist", you're not actually saying anything productive right now.

#

Speak for yourself. If I have to explain to you why what a dragon is in TES is an established thing and calling other things dragons within it isn't really appropriate in a lore channel dedicated to that canon, then you're fundamentally not going to understand any point made against you.

#

This conversation is not productive and won't ever be. I'm leaving it at that.

cunning lynx
#

skyrim's greatest weakness is its lack of story

uncut hatch
#

Is there a human like sharks race in lore

#

Basically king shark

gusty hare
#

we have heard of weresharks, but I think its more myth then real

uncut hatch
gusty hare
#

Because its only ever mentioned by one book

#

we have no first hand accounts of them

#

In Black Marsh and southern Morrowind, werecrocodiles stalk the swamps. Black Marsh also shares with the Imperial Province and the wetter parts of Elsweyr the vile presence of werelions. Valenwood's werevultures are not found in any other province. The wereboar has found both the climates of High Rock and Hammerfell amenable. As I mentioned before, the werebear is the most common lycanthrope in Skyrim, and is also found in the northern parts of High Rock, the Imperial Province, and Morrowind. The werewolf can be found in every province. The seventh lycanthrope, which I have never seen but my trusted peers have assured me exists, is a wereshark that roams the oceans around Tamriel.

#

That said this book was from Daggerfall, so its best to take it with a pinch of salt, since the lore changed a lot since that game

robust lintel
#

Ppl transforming into wolves, bears, sharks, boars, vultures, crocodiles.. lol XD

gusty hare
calm geyser
#

I transform into a good guy, does that count ?

sharp lantern
gaunt bear
swift bramble
robust lintel
#

XD

#

It's like a werevamp. 🤔 hybrids. Can one be a certain mixture of two or more versions? Even mixing or crossing diseases like vampirism and wereism, not pure bloods

brisk perch
#

Were approximately means man, so man bat, man vamp, man wolf, man shark, etc.

gaunt bear
#

Got a lore question for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction:

Because of how different magic is in both Thedas and Mundus, the magic of the Anchor interacting with the magic of an Elder Scroll is causing a few… conversion errors. Because of that, it’s almost impossible for the Dwarves of Thedas to encounter Dwemer, or vice versa.

So my question is, how would Dwemer react to dwarves?

brisk perch
#

Zero-Sum?

pastel sorrel
proven moss
#

More seriously, I concur with Serithi

warm herald
#

my sense of dwemer culture is that they'd look on Dwarves of Thedas in pity. obviously the deep folk have their failings--infighting, greed, devastating weapons of mass destruction, and so forth; but both have the ability to hear the tones in magical stones, and only one of them--the Dwemer--mastered it. both deal with superstition (comparing things like The Stone and Lorkhan, or red Lyrium and Aetherium might be interesting) in different ways. thedas dwarves lost their empire and still live in it! kind of the opposite issue, there.

i suspect that Dagna would earn their respect more than any other. honestly though, we dont know enough to speculate much further.

gaunt bear
#

Part of why I was asking was because I’m planning on having the mountain of Skyhold become the Thedas analogue of Moria and/or Erebor, thereby marking it as the ancient seat of the Dwarf Kingdom.

In it, they find an uncorrupted Dwemer Tonal Architect (inspired by Javik) whose unpopular views (which he refuses to elaborate) caused him and his followers to be ostracized, and ultimately banished from his people, which caused him to uncover a one-way portal to Thedas. This led them to the Dwarven city (not sure what to call it) , which came under attack from Darkspawn not long afterward. This ultimately forced him to ||* censored to prevent spoilers *||, thereby causing him to become the last living Dwemer.

However, this also has the side effect of preventing Darkspawn from inhabiting it, thereby allowing Bhelen to return.

zinc rapids
#

thoughts on the argonians driving back the daedra in their own realm? i find it rather funny

#

mainly cause I saw this meme on yt and did some background reading on the topic lol

IMG_2352.png
frigid willow
golden sierra
# zinc rapids thoughts on the argonians driving back the daedra in their own realm? i find it ...

Personally, I find it likely that while the Argonians did fight back amazingly compared to other races, that the whole "the An-Xileel saved us!" thing is similar to Thalmor propaganda which says it was the Thalmor which ended the Crisis. However, whereas the Thalmor did it on purpose, I find it likely that the Argonians had been - y'know - fighting back, when all of a sudden all the gates closed thanks to Martin. the Argonians were unaware that it was thanks to Martin, and therefore thought they'd been the ones to close Black Marsh's gates, scaring Dagon into backing off n all

brisk perch
#

The Saxhleel sometimes do not even have to fight back themselves in the Black Marsh, for the Marsh itself can be quite terrifying and dangerous to mortals and immortals

#

Though, they have been invaded and enslaved many times throughout history, at least by the late 3rd Age and 4th Age they have their freedom... mostly

golden sierra
#

A good example of this would be the Archon tribe

glacial scarab
#

I'd imagine it's either An-Xileel propaganda or just the hist using their meat shields to protect themselves from the Daedra so I doubt it was under their own control when the hist assumed direct control. The Hist was making the marsh more dangerous as heard from TES4 rumours

golden sierra
#

The only thing I'm countering is the idea that the Argonians were responsible for Black Marsh's Oblivion Gates closing

#

I have absolutely no doubt the An-Xileel and many other Argonians fought back against the Daedra very valiantly and probably more effectively than other provinces. TES4 has dialogue about Argonians returning to Black Marsh, which - according to MK - was for the whole "we're gonna fight back against the Daedra" thing. Regardless of your thoughts on MK, imo this one seems really likely considering MK credits Kurt with it (iirc), and more importantly that the same idea was also talked about in Keyes' novels

sharp lantern
#

I think the An-Xileel, like the Thalmor, played a major part in ''saving'' their respective province from the Daedra, and just like the Thalmor claim to have ended it in general while they only really kept the Daedra from overwhelming the province.

#

You can be almost certain that they got the support, since they ruled Black Marsh afterwards and directed the efforts to invade Morrowind, which they wouldn't have the power to do if they didn't have local support.

golden sierra
#

egirlNod I agree

green cedar
#

I would like to know if Dagothwave could realistically be part of Elder Scrolls lore.

brisk perch
#

Here's a crazy idea: all the player made mods are canon but just Sheogorath induced madness, not happening to others

azure tinsel
#

So does vivec deeply feel sorrow for betraying Neravar and Dagoth?

gaunt bear
ocean brook
#

Vivec deeply feels sorrow that it didn't end the way he imagined, I imagine.

robust lintel
#

Do they have Voodoo in TES? Was wondering if they had some form of it in the swamplands of Argonia or not while pondering on having joinable coven/cultists guilds or something to do with necromancey or general witchcraft.

proven moss
#

No, not that I know of.

abstract ledge
#

Might not be exactly what your looking for

gusty hare
split iris
# robust lintel Do they have Voodoo in TES? Was wondering if they had some form of it in the swa...

You are mixing together terms which shouldn't really touch and thus should clarify what exactly you are looking for. If you are looking for something in TES that is close to Voodoo, well you will have to specify with that too. Are you talking about Candomblé Jejé? Cuban Vodú? Dominican Vudú? Haitian Vodou? Louisiana Voodoo? West African Vodun?

Necromancy is very much a thing if TES and have many covens thereof, such as the Worm Cult.

Witchcraft is also a thing in TES and there are many covens thereof such as in various Reach tribes, Beldama Wyrd, Glenmoril Wyrd, and many more.

robust lintel
#

Oh, I just meant I was pondering on two separate ideas. One being Voodoo. The other thing I was thinking about was having joinable guilds/factions for the pc revolving around oh, the dark arts we shall call it collectively for sake of simplicity.

quasi shale
#

Ok so what's up with the flying snow whales and why didn't I know about this before lol

ashen torrent
#

I will never truly forgive Beth for the complete lack of joy snow and wasabi in Skyrim.

gaunt bear
ashen torrent
#

Yes.

gusty hare
quasi shale
#

Very, I thought I was well versed in the series. Apparently not

gusty hare
#

theirs lots of obscure lore thats exists outside the game, all with various levels of canon to them

gaunt bear
ashen torrent
#

That is utterly ridiculous.

#

C0da makes it all canon 😏

gaunt bear
ashen torrent
gaunt bear
brisk perch
#

TBH, anything and everything can be canon and probably is canon within one of Vaermina's pocket nightmare realms or someone's dreams.

chilly iron
#

Why do the people of Tamriel worship akatosh but he wants them all dead? Do they not known hes a dragon that wants to kill everyone?

quasi shale
#

Akatosh is just a god of time, why would he want living beings dead?

gaunt bear
#

I think @chilly iron has got Akatosh and Alduin mixed up.

pastel sorrel
#

If you meant Alduin, he got up to his shenanigans long after the Dragon Cult was already established, and his worship will be for much the same reasons that any tyrannical figurehead gains a following: the chance for a place on the totem pole.

#

The Dragon Cult answered to their overlords, and were afforded the luxury of power and security to rule Skyrim below them.

#

Even after everything, there'd still be people willing to worship him in the hopes of being spared his wrath. Whether he would actually spare them in the end is up in the air, though probably unlikely, and it's not like they're meant to survive the process to complain about it.

chilly iron
#

I thought Akatosh was Alduin

gusty hare
#

Alduin is an aspect of akatosh, who represents the end

#

but they are considered individual beings

gaunt bear
gusty hare
frigid willow
#

But according to the celebrated scholarly work "Alduin ish reel und he eint Akatosh" Alduin isn't Akatosh

gusty hare
gaunt bear
frigid willow
#

Yeah but are you your father?

No you eint

gusty hare
gaunt bear
gusty hare
#

and Akatosh probarly stripped most of his powers because of it

gaunt bear
#

@gusty hare I say, a little bit of Column A and a little bit of Column B.

gusty hare
#

most likly

#

Alduin wanted power for himself and Akatosh punished him for it

gaunt bear
gusty hare
gaunt bear
gusty hare
#

they view mortals as ants, some like Dagon and Bal like watching them burn under a magnifyinh glass, others like azura and the divines like to maintain ant colonies

pastel sorrel
#

"Good" and "evil" are overly simplistic terms at the best of times.

#

Alduin acts in accordance to his intrinsic nature. Paarthurnax has to fight his own nature at all times.

gaunt bear
gusty hare
frigid willow
#

An avalanche isn't evil

#

Even when discussing entities that have independent agency like the daedra we have to remember that they're slaves to the nature they were born to.

gaunt bear
#

I’ve got a new question for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction, and there isn’t any real place to post such things:

My question is on the Fade: ||https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Fade||

In my fanfiction, I have that Lucien would be both fascinated and frightened (in a ‘wanting to get the hell out of there’ sort of way) by the Fade, and Matthias (my Dragonborn Character) discovers that his Dragonborn Spirit enables him to reshape/“rebirth” spirits ‘as easily as a potter can reshape clay on the wheel’, but how would some of the College of Winterhold Mages, such as Tolfdir, Phinis Gestor and Drevis Neldoren, the Augur of Dunlain, and several others react to the Fade?

pastel sorrel
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I mean it's basically Vaermina's Quagmire with some Aetherius, which is already known about.

gaunt bear
# pastel sorrel I mean it's basically Vaermina's Quagmire with some Aetherius, which is already ...

I mean sure, but there’s one problem, which is being explored in the Fanfiction: magic functions differently in Thedas than it does in Mundus, and the magic of the Anchor interacting with the magic of an Elder Scroll has caused the two different worlds to overlap. This is causing, for lack of a better term, a few “conversion errors”, and it only took one conversion error to destroy the Mars Climate Orbiter.

pastel sorrel
gaunt bear
# pastel sorrel You as the author are the one in control of what happens with all that. How it o...

I’m working on that, but my question wasn’t about that. It was about how certain people would react to the Fade.

I do have a few “conversion errors” down: Thedas and Mundus will become interlinked occasionally (usually during the major games, including ESO, which ‘linked’ during Andraste’s lifetime, and causing Molag Bal to see an opportunity to pull a Blight-weakened Thedas into Coldharbour); during the events of Skyrim/Dragon Age: Inquisition, the return of the Dovah/Alduin and the opening of the Breach has undone enough of Martin Septim’s sacrifice to allow the Daedric princes to briefly enter Thedas/Mundus in mortal-like form, but only for a short while (like Durneviir (did I spell that right?) can’t leave the Soul Cairn for extended periods); and that the Fade is now acting like both wall and bridge between Aetherius (with the Black City as its capital), Thedas/Mundus, and Oblivion.

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As an analogy for what I meant in the third one, imagine that the Fade is the part of the ocean that’s close to shore/the beach/etc., and that in order to reach Aetherius or Oblivion, you’ll have to ‘sail out of sight of shore’, metaphorically speaking.

pastel sorrel
gaunt bear
pastel sorrel
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We only know how they behaved in a couple of specific contexts, none of which particularly have do to with anything like what you're describing.

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Moreover, I need to lay something out here as a fellow writer, one with my own Skyrim-based fanfic among various other projects, and while I'm certainly not a professional by any usage of the term, I do have a certain informed and holistic perspective on things: the questions you're asking and have asked before indicate A. you don't know that much about the setting, which isn't so much the problem, but rather it's B. you don't know how to do your own research on the topics that are your responsibility to research.

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The UESP and such are right there, freely available to scour through for information. The characters you listed already have pages with all their dialogue and whatnot listed. It's one thing if you've already done a measure of legwork and have further questions about what you've learned, that's meeting with people in the middle and a conversation can be had there. But that you don't realize we have very little relevant information on those characters you listed shows you haven't actually done your research in trying to understand them in the first place; knowing how they might react or why it's not clear how they might react is something you should know already, because you should've already been studying them and trying to infer some reasonable answer from there.

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Knowing when to do your own legwork and when it's time to directly ask someone with more expertise is a necessary skill for writing anything that you're not already familiar enough with to write from memory. Especially also key is fostering that overall sense of self-sufficiency, being able to seek out the information on your own that's already been written down in greater detail than any one person is going to lay out for you, because why repeat so much information when it's already conveniently written down elsewhere?

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There's nothing wrong with asking people for help in and of itself, but there's the old adage of giving a man a fish versus teaching him how to fish, because you don't become a good writer by relying on handouts. You have a responsibility to engage in the topics you're researching and build a detailed perspective from there, it's essentially a discipline thing that we all have to deal with, and that's a kind of engagement I'm not really seeing from you. That's going to hurt you in the long-term, because writing is a discipline, every aspect of it is a discipline, and you need to be able to foster your own part in it before you can properly utilize what anyone else can give you. People aren't going to give you a free ride all the time.

split pond
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How did Clavicus Vile get himself powerless in Skyrim?

sharp lantern
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There's also the fact that a chunk of his realm got stolen around 4E 48

pastel sorrel
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Barbas is fully half of Vile's power

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Fully half of Vile, essentially.

split pond
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For a being who's supposedly universal in power (at least in their own realm), he didn't feel very powerful in Skyrim, even after his quest. Surely he could still return to his own realm anytime he wants even with his most of his powers gone?
On another note, what do you think are Ingun Black-Briar's chances of getting into the Dark Brotherhood?

golden sierra
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she'd be an interesting character to see return

pastel sorrel
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They're just in the best spot to enforce their wills over time.

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Invasions of their realms - particularly by mortals - would be entirely impossible otherwise.

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Look at Molag Bal, needing his watchers and sentinels to actually keep an eye on what's going on in Coldharbour.