elder-scrolls-lore

[sharp lantern]

And again, atrocities is an absolutely meaningless term, because it is subjective as hell.

There is no justification for Paarthurnax' death.

[raw grail]

"You know... what?"
"Paarthurnax. The dragon, that the Greybeards have been protecting for all these years."
"Turns out he's a dragon. But he helped me."
"That's fine. We needed his help. Now we don't, and it's long past time for him to pay for his crimes. And he's not just any dragon. He was the right hand of Alduin. He committed atrocities so infamous they are still remembered, thousands of years later."

My oath binds me, Dragonborn. Until Paarthurnax is dead, you aren't welcome here.

[raw grail]

I'm not saying it's justified. If I misspoke and did say it was, could you point me to where?

I agree that Paarthurnax does not deserve to die. However, I also don't think you're interpreting their interests and goals accurately

[sharp lantern]

Their oaths do not bind them at all though, which is why Emperors who lived long after the Dragonguard discovered Paarthurnax still had the loyalty of the Blades.

[raw grail]

Why does he need to die? "Paarthurnax was the author of many atrocities during the Dragon War - crimes great enough to be remembered for thousands of years. True, he turned traitor to Alduin and helped overthrow the Dragon Cult, but that does not excuse or expiate his previous deeds. Whether or not he has truly repented, or merely acted to save himself, justice demands that he pay with his life."

[sharp lantern]

Why are they purposefully lying, or changing, their oaths so that Paarthurnax must die? Why do they turn the other cheek with Odahviing? Not because Paarthurnax is supposedly ''worse'', but because Paarthurnax is the head of the Greybeards. Critical thinking.

[raw grail]

You don't think so. They clearly disagree. I don't know why you're ascribing deception to this

[raw grail]

I think this is the most blunt and honest way they could have put it - and I also think it's the biggest reason they're wrong

[sharp lantern]

No, I know so, because as said, the Blades have always endured service of the Dragonborn Emperors, even when the Emperors themselves ordered them to leave Paarthurnax be.

And, again, the very term atrocities, it's way too vague to be talking about any supposed ''justice''. What, did Paarthurnax burn down whole villages, are those the atrocities? Or did he just kill numerous rebels in arms before he switched sides, and were those the atrocities?

[raw grail]

Atlas of Dragons explicitly says they planned on intervening at the earliest opportunity

[sharp lantern]

Which translates to waiting until there's a Dragonborn they follow who gives them the order to slay him - not them ordering the Dragonborn to do so.

[raw grail]

I think that's taking it out of context

[sharp lantern]

They have no jurisidiction to order the Dragonborn in the first place. Their duty is to serve, guide, and protect the Dragonborn. All three duties of which they fail at anyway.

[raw grail]

Paarthurnax - The legendary lieutenant of Alduin in the Dragon War. He is now known to lair on the Throat of the World under the protection of the Greybeards of High Hrothgar. Master Araidh continues the established policy of avoiding direct confrontation with the Greybeards while waiting for an opportunity to exact justice upon him.

[raw grail]

I agree. I'm not defending them and I think you're coming at this like I am

[sharp lantern]

And Esbern then tells us that the Emperors also protected Paarthurnax - aka, the Blades, or Dragonguard, were explicitly ordered to leave Paarthurnax be by the highest lawful authority on Tamriel at the time.

Justice is in according with the law. The law does not support the Blades, so it is not justice. It is blind revenge and an attempt to get the LDB away from the Greybeards.

[raw grail]

And I agree with all of that. None of it is mutually exclusive with them believing what they say

Paarthurnax himself says their beliefs are coming from a place he understands, but Esbern rejects the premise that Paarthurnax could be redeemed. I think Esbern is wrong for that. I'm not going to act like, because he's wrong, he doesn't actually believe it

Just because I disagree with what he says doesn't mean that what he says is insincere

[sharp lantern]

Paarthurnax says he understand why they do not trust another dragon, as he wouldn't do so either. Not once does he admit to any supposed ''crimes'' or ''atrocities'', because we never bring it up. All we tell him is the Blades say he deserves to die.

There is nothing to support their accusation, and given that Delphine has already previously lied to our face, their reliability is in question.

[raw grail]

Well, he does corroborate the claim that he was very close to Alduin before helping the Tongues

[sharp lantern]

And that supports their accusation... how?

[glacial scarab]

I think the blades are a bit of a mess from a cut decisions to have Blades and Greybeards be a choice. So I wouldn't be surprised if there was more that didn't make it ingame.

Also doesn't help that all this stuff happened in the Merethric Era a very long time ago.

[sharp lantern]

And that there is no other source anywhere speaking about these supposed atrocities that warrant death.

[raw grail]

Why shouldn't they trust you?
"Dov wahlaan fah rel. We were made to dominate. The will to power is in our blood. You feel it in yourself, do you not? I can be trusted. I know this. But they do not. Onikaan ni ov dovah. It is always wise to mistrust a dovah. I have overcome my nature only through meditation and long study of the Way of the Voice. No day goes by where I am not tempted to return to my inborn nature. Zin krif horvut se suleyk. What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"

But I cannot celebrate his fall. Zu'u tiiraaz ahst ok mah. He was my brother once. This world will never be the same.

[raw grail]

Because being "brother, once" to the big tyrannical dragon and talking about having overcome your evil urge to dominate paints a very obvious picture of "I used to do bad things with Alduin and then I realized his mistake and turned against him"

[sharp lantern]

It wasn't the dragons that caused the Dragon War to break out... you know that right?

It were the kinsmen of the Nords, the Dragon Priests, whose rule was so heavy-handed that people entered in a rebellion.

The Dragons themselves didn't get involved until the Dragon Cult failed to subdue the rebels.

It's also not evidence of these accusations of ''atrocities''.

[raw grail]

Yes, I know that. Why are you asking that condescendingly? I'm being respectful. Either way, I don't see how that's mutually exclusive with anything I've said

[raw grail]

He literally says he has overcome evil through great effort

[sharp lantern]

He says he has overcome his inborn nature - to dominate - through great effort. Paarthurnax considers that inborn nature to be evil.

Does your Dragonborn complete every single faction questline? Because if so, you've done less to prevent that inborn nature to dominate of the LDB than Paarthurnax has done his own.

[raw grail]

I'm not saying he's evil dawg

Why are you so hell bent on making this seem like I'm attacking Paarthurnax

[sharp lantern]

That is neither here nor there though, the point is that atrocities, as stated prior, is way too vague a term to justify killing Paarthurnax.

[raw grail]

I never was justifying killing Paarthurnax

You're approaching this like I'm diametrically opposed to all of your views on this topic, even views I never mentioned, contested, or disagreed with, and in fact even views that I have explicitly agreed with

To that end you have been condescending and raised straw men of my arguments

I don't really understand why, because I don't think what I was saying was even disagreeing with you that heavily. It was a simple matter of interpreting the intentions of characters - not the morality of their actions, not whether they were right or wrong, but whether they believed what they said or were saying what they said to manipulate us into harming the Greybeards for them

I don't particularly want to continue because it's growing very frustrating

[sharp lantern]

You've literally ignored Delphine badmouthing the Greybeards throughout the entire questline to say ''there is nothing to indicate it's an attempt to snub the Greybeards'' my dude.

[raw grail]

And you're ignoring their equally bad dialogue explicitly talking about their motivations for killing Paarthurnax, replacing those motivations with "to harm the Greybeards" and that alone

[sharp lantern]

They talk about an ''oath which binds them'' from service until Paarthurnax is dead (read their oath, it doesn't), they talk about ''atrocities remembered thousands of years later'' which cannot be read about anywhere but from them, the whole quest screams that they're full of it.

[sharp lantern]

Because context makes it very clear that they're just trying to turn the LDB into their little puppet by burning any connections with the Greybeards.

[raw grail]

Esbern pre-emptively (and atrociously) counters what Paarthurnax said about overcoming evil even

[sharp lantern]

Because he, too, wants the LDB to be a Blades puppet.

[raw grail]

I agree, but I don't think discarding their other motivations for that, and exclusively that, is an accurate interpretation that takes into account the information we have at our disposal

[sharp lantern]

Because you're only using the information from the quest in question, instead of going back and looking through Delphine's list of badmouthing the Greybeards.

Though even the quest in question makes their motivation dubious, with the whole yeah nah, aiding the rebels in overthrowing Alduin makes Paarthurnax worse

[raw grail]

I'm not discarding that information or disagreeing with the idea that they are manipulating the Dragonborn into severing ties with the Greybeards

I think that's very reasonable and lines up with Delphine's dialogue talking about if the Greybeards had more sway on Tiber, and such. I don't think it's their only motivation tho

I could have downplayed that earlier? I'll check in a min. If so my b. I'm at work so things are a bit hasty

I did. The way this reads excludes the interpretation instead of focusing on the "only" part of what you said, which was my main intention. That one's on me

[sharp lantern]

I think it is, again pointing to Odahviing who still believes in dominating the countryside and is opposed to the Way of the Voice, who is only kept in check because the LDB is around. With the LDB out of the picture, Odahviing will go back to terrorizing the countryside.

The Blades leaving Odahviing out of their plans - despite being the very people who informed the LDB of who Odahviing is - yet ordering Paarthurnax' death makes the whole ''atrocities means Paarthurnax must die'' story incredibly hypocritical.

Which in turn makes their motivation there incredibly questionable.

[raw grail]

It is hypocritical

People have hypocritical views a lot, it's very common. I don't think being a hypocrite necessarily means one's only motivation for hypocritical things is deception, so I still don't see how that's mutually exclusive with them fully believing everything they say

Willful hypocrisy does absolutely exist, but surely we can agree a lot of hypocrisy is unrealized by the hypocrite in question

[sharp lantern]

They use those views as a sham to snub the Greybeards - it's also why they don't give a damn about Odahviing. Odahviing switched sides. Odahviing was loyal to Alduin. Do they care? No. Why? Because he isn't a Greybeard nor follows the Way of the Voice.

Paarthurnax? Leader of the Greybeards, preaches the Way of the Voice, serves as a mentor to the LDB. That can cause a problem for the Blades trying to use the LDB as a pawn. So they create a rift between the Greybeards and the LDB under the guise of supposed ''justice''.

If their motivation was truly justice, they'd have also ordered Odahviing's death. The fact that they don't shows that ''justice'' is an afterthought.

[raw grail]

I think the part about Odahviing is assuming a lot where we simply don't have information

[raw grail]

I don't think that's true. People often call for justice against one and turn a blind eye or don't think about another

[sharp lantern]

We know the Blades know of Odahviing, we know he was loyal to Alduin all the way until his capture in 4E 201, we know he doesn't follow the Way of the Voice, nor the Greybeards.

A group of self-proclaimed ''dragon hunters'' who say it doesn't matter if a dragon turned against Alduin or not (in fact, stating it makes them worse) have zero reason not to call for the death of Odahviing, unless the whole ''justice'' story is a lie.

[raw grail]

I'd argue the Blades' hypocrisy runs even deeper. The Blades as an organization were the right hand of Emperors for eras, and the Emperor they're most sworn to, Tiber, was a terrible person in life

I don't think that's the result of willful hypocrisy, just everyday human inconsistency

Either way I've gotta focus on work

[sharp lantern]

Aight

[plain cosmos]

I mean, the Blades are really nothing if not grotesquely incompetent.

So it's probably just an extension of that.

[glacial scarab]

A unit of the Imperial Guard protects the Duke, and the Hawkmoth Legion is also garrisoned within the walls of the castle.

there's a Deathshead Legion garrison in Gnisis, and pilgrims come to see the Mask of Vivec at the Gnisis Temple." (the fort at Gnisis is Fort Darius I think?)

I decided to look at the TES3 Fort naming. the Forts are named after the Legions or a person with the Legions having moth names.

On lore scale I'd imagine TES legions are like "First Legion Deathshead" and "Second Legion Hawkmoth" Based it off Roman Legions like "Legio I Adiutrix (lit. First Legion "Rescuer"),"

[mossy moss]

i think the Blades lacking a quest about Odahviing can be easily explained by his role as a summon for the player to use

[plain cosmos]

Oh, it's absolutely a gameplay thing. Odahviing isn't a killable entity due to the summon power, so having a quest to kill him would be A: a lot of work, and B: render the shout useless.

So of course they wouldn't include it.

But the Blades in Skyrim absolutely would have wanted him dead, of such gameplay limitations were not at play. Because they're genocidal filth and entirely irredeemable as a faction.

Even the Thalmor are more justified than the Blades. Though not by much.

[proven moss]

I don't worry about it. Skyrim Blades lore has already been retconned in my head for whatever it'll be next game anyway.

[plain cosmos]

Hopefully, extinct.

Their gear doesn't even look cool enough to justify their continued existence on aesthetic reasons.

https://tenor.com/view/brooklyn-nine-nine-terry-jeffords-i-said-what-i-said-b99-brooklyn99-gif-19847457

[proven moss]

Next game the Blades will turn out to be Ansei, sent to Tamriel to find the Hoon Ding

[plain cosmos]

And they'll still be bad at their jobs

[topaz dome]

The Blades have always been the "Keystone Kops" of Tamriel.

[glacial scarab]

Pretty much everything from Cyrodiil needs to be nuked from orbit. As they'll never do anything interesting with them.

Blades suffer from how TES does anything Akaviri and then the fact they keep changing the Blades in nearly every game

[plain cosmos]

What DOESN'T need to be nuked from orbit at this point would be a much shorter list.

[robust lintel]

I mean, it's got to be safe to make it to Nintendo right? 💀 Stay within the lines, don't rock the boat, beware the pitchforkers, nothing pleases them, nothing.

[plain cosmos]

Then don't make it to Nintendo.

[robust lintel]

Skyrim did

[plain cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/apocalyptica-gif-19461960

[robust lintel]

But we'll see since Xbox owns them now? Might end up on Playstation and Nintendo at a later date.

[robust lintel]

Imperials be like whimpering puppies..

[plain cosmos]

Imperials wish they were Rome

[robust lintel]

They are the "peacekeepers" of Tamriel, which is why they are so dull.. But I mean, nothing wrong with peacekeeping, but they could go about it in a more interesting way rather than the bend to knee approach. You can be aggressive, but still hold the peace.

But I think the entire Imperial legion is going to fall first, before it can re-make itself.

[glacial scarab]

I'd imagine they'd wish they were a people and not "The Empire the Race".

[plain cosmos]

I know WE wish that.

[proven moss]

I think if I were to redesign the Imperials, I'd make them more analogous with the Inca

Romans is done so often, but for good reason. The trope does most of the legwork

But if we're looking at overhauling them, might as well go for broke

I like the Nibenese/Colovian split, so I'd preserve that a bit

I think it's important that the unifying power of all Dawn's Beauty needs to be, at its heart, a coalition itself

The premier diplomats, bureaucrats, and pragmatists

And utopian in ideology

[glacial scarab]

Honestly their issue isn't the Roman design. It's the complete lack of any culture. Whenever they appear in any game it's always "The Empire" it is never "Colovian" or "Nibenese". We don't even know "Colovain" or "Nibenese" design.

[robust lintel]

Hail the Empire! ⚔
https://media.tenor.com/X0a4fIA2dLgAAAAM/empire-spin.gif

[gaunt bear]

Here’s something else I’m doing for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction, that I think would be funny!:

Because of the Opening of the Breach, Matthias is starting to become closer to the “Dov” part of his soul while keeping his “Joor” heart. This is causing a few physical/physiological/mental/spiritual changes.

One such incident comes from a vampire trying to feed on him. Not only does Matthias not contract Sanguine Vampiris (did I spell that right?), it sends that vampire briefly into overdrive, like after someone drinks a few too many caffeinated beverages, before suffering an extremely debilitating “crash”.

[silent obsidian]

Is Matthias a TES Dragonborn or is he something else, because we've seen in both gameplay (which could be ignored as limitations) and in story (Harkon) that vampires don't receive that type of effect (actually, caffeine rarely does too in real life unless you're taking ungodly amounts), so if you're shooting for "accuracy" (which it's fine if you aren't) then you might wanna consider that

[gaunt bear]

Specifically, he's my Dragonborn character, the one I'm using for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction. Also, there's also this part in my story I'll share to give some context:

During the Dragon War: the the High Priests of the Elven Gods of Thedas (Elgar'nan, Fen'harel, etc.) gathered at what is now the Mountain of Skyhold "and cast their seal to hold back the sky" while the Tongues did battle with Alduin on the Throat of the World. The purpose of the seal was to cut off Alduin and his followers from their quasi-divine powers, including "using the Thu'um to blot out the sky and flood the land". However, the opening of the Breach has severely weakened that seal, so that Alduin and the other Dovah, are, slowly but surely, regaining their quasi-divine powers. However, since Matthias has both a Dov's soul and a Joor's heart, he's going to be gaining some new abilities that he really didn't sign up for.

[silent obsidian]

Ah, alright, do these powers involve physical changes?

[gaunt bear]

There are a few, but his most impressive power, so to speak, is the ability to reshape spirits (not daedra) using Onikaan do Dovahkiin.

Matthias: I certainly didn't sign up for this! * sticks out his tongue, revealing that it's now several inches longer and forked *

[silent obsidian]

No, I mean like specifically does his physical/mortal vessel change through this process in any way

[gaunt bear]

Let's just say I haven't got that far in the story yet, but there will be.

[silent obsidian]

Hmm, because if that's directly what it leads into then I could see it working out in a "lore-friendly" way, but default Dragonborn would be bending the rules a bit

[gaunt bear]

Would ripping a door off its hinges by accident be funny?

[silent obsidian]

That's more writing critique than lore but it really depends on a lot of factors

[gaunt bear]

Before I head to bed, I’m going to say that Matthias will eventually be able to shift between ‘Dov’ and ‘Joor’ form with a shout, but that’s all I got so far. Do you have any ideas?

https://tenor.com/view/good-night-sleep-tight-dont-let-the-bed-bugs-bite-gru-steve-carell-gif-16561224

[silent obsidian]

I don't know dragon language off the top of my head, I would look at something like "become dragon eternally" or "always once dragon" or some vartion based on Dragon Aspect, but I don't have a good idea there exactly

[gaunt bear]

Actually, i meant the physical/mortal vessel changes you were talking about. Good night.

[silent obsidian]

Ah, sure, I'll have to think, I'll tag you if I come up with something when I get the chance

[gaunt bear]

And that’s why I gave Paarthunax the Onikaan do Dovahkiin Rite of Renewal: as a kind of reward for long adherence to the Way of the Voice.

Also, I’ve got that Odahviing (did I spell that right?) is also going to undergo the same Rite, but it’s going to be a lot more painful as his sins are shriven away. When they come out of it, they’re going to find themselves as female versions of Paarthunax’s new form, because they’re going to, quite literally, give rise to a new kind of Dovah.

(I chose to do that because I think it would be funny.)

[gaunt bear]

This is another thing that I’ve got from my fanfiction that I’m sharing for comment:

Matthias: One of the things I have been noticing ever since the Breach opened is the strange feeling coming from the Throat of the World. Using the Ancient Knowledge I gained from returning a Dwemer Lexicon, I crafted a special eyepiece to investigate. What I discovered was as shocking as it was confusing:

There’s a column of white light rising up out of the Throat of the World and shooting off into infinity!

Not only that, when I looked around, there was a red light rising out of Red Mountain in Morrowind, a grey-blue one rising out of High Rock, a more brown one rising out of Hammerfell, and a golden one rising out of Cyrodiil. When I asked the spirits of the Fade what was going on, they gave me an even more surprising answer:

According to them, the Towers are powering up again!

When I asked them why this was, they simply said that, and I quote, ‘They’re getting ready to do what they’re supposed to do.’.

What do you think the Towers are supposed to do, and why are they ‘powering up’ now, of all times?

[slate shoal]

I hope we get more snow elf lore content soon my autism needs it

like explore their tibetan themes or give us more culture grah

[gaunt bear]

I’ve got an idea for that, but I’m heading to bed soon, so I’ll post my idea in #verified-creators-discussion tomorrow.

[slate shoal]

if you need to know what stone they used, the concept artist told me they were inspired by high elf Warhammer marble but it's also likely a granite

tbh I can see the resemblance to granite when considering Falmer stone

[plain cosmos]

Granite, like Marble, isn't a one-shade stone, and can run a wide gamut from White to Brown to Black to Pink.

When unpolished, they are relatively easy to tell apart, but polished the main differences are that Marbles have fine viens of other minerals through them, while granites have flecks of quartz grains.

Granite is also MUCH harder than Marble, which makes it harder to work but also stronger for construction, especially for fortifications.

In Warhammer, Elven fortifications are typically granite or Limestone (depending on the location, the gates of Lothern are Granite while the Griffon Gate is Limestone), likely dictated by locally available materials) but always finely crafted and polished to a shine.

Most of the visual depictions of Elven masonry in Warhammer are actually not lore accurate, and done so as to add some visual static and break up large flat surfaces. In canon, Elven masons are so skilled they can fit the multi-ton stone blocks so well that even an Elven eye can't see the seam between them, creating walls and towers that look like seamless solid stone.

When they do show lines and joins, they are done in deliberate patterns to be aesthetically pleasing, and are not indicative of the actual structure.

The reason these descriptions do not translate to images, or tabletop scenery, is that they look unnatural to us. And despite the fact that them looking unnatural to humans is the POINT, it's humans playing the game and looking at the pretty pictures, so concessions need to be made.

All of that said, I think it's rather telling that even with those concessions made, Warhammer Asur architecture is still artistically orders of magnitudes better than TES Altmer.

[narrow solar]

Hey there's something I'm looking for clarity on. Are Shadowscales legally sanctioned like the Morag Tong? Argonians seem to all be okay with their existence. But many are openly members of the Dark Brotherhood. So, is it a question of who you ask?

[plain cosmos]

Legally sanctioned by WHOM? Because they are definitely sanctioned by the internal authorities of Blackmarsh, but not by the Empire.

[slate shoal]

ty I did assume it was possibly limestone !!!

[nova river]

as I understand it, the shadowscales were originally trained and maintained by the blackmarsh government. They were then offered to the dark brotherhood but the practice was abandoned by the time of skyrim's age and that the shadowscale you meet in the dark brotherhood is infact the last one.

the empire however frowns on the dark brotherhood, for the same reasons why they frowned on the morag Tong, but so long as the tong mainly operated in vvardenfell, they didnt care what the elves did to themselves

you got to understand, the argonians, Mostly extremists, still acknowledge and worship sithis

in argonian culture, sithis is a very real god of death and destruction.

as real as the hist which made them

now grant it I am no expert on argonian culture, but thats my view on it from the snippets I have overheard and read about

[balmy salmon]

There's also something else to think about- unlike Paarthurnax, Odahviing already paid for his crimes with his life.

[nova river]

do you think Paarthurnax should be killed? I am not being hostile about it just curious. I have heard both sides of the argument and though I personally believe he shouldnt be slain, I have seen the argument for why he should.

[balmy salmon]

Myself? No, not at all. The Blades are being super-unreasonable with wanting to punish him after everything he had done to help mortals.

[nova river]

I agree

I have heard both arguments and feel they both have their merits

but my personal bias is killing something so old and wise is more a curse then a blessing

it's like burning books

[balmy salmon]

They should've made Delphine and Esbern un-essential at the end of the main quest.

[nova river]

yea I agree.

[proven moss]

I very much distrust anytime Bethesda's games proclaim "the last of something." I was just doing research on the Glenmoril Witches and saw the witch you meet in Oblivion for the vampirism cure was said to be the last Glenmoril witch.
Then we met a whole bunch in Skyrim 200 years later...

[nova river]

you are right

[balmy salmon]

I thought she was just the last Glenmoril Witch in Cyrodiil.

[nova river]

she could have gone to skyrim and restarted them

honestly the hard part of being the last of anything, so long as your work lives on, you can die out and something can be restarted

[balmy salmon]

I have searched for these witches throughout Cyrodiil, but no covens still exist within its borders. There may be one left.
I just checked, Hassildor just says she's the last witch in Cyrodiil.

[nova river]

which is why I think being remembered is more important then one's life.

but thats personal semantics

[balmy salmon]

Most Glenmoril Witches are probably in High Rock.

[proven moss]

Man, hardly seems something to be remarked on then? Cause all one has to do is walk across the border... or teleport, as may be

Maybe she was the last member of a Cyodiil-based coven and they weren't counting traveling witches

[nova river]

I wanna make a breton swordsman: a half elf half human nobody that no one wants and he will see himself as skyrim's guardian.

just havent decided if I want to wear light or heavy armor

the char will master all skills eventually.

just trying to decide to go with stormcloaks or imperials

[sharp lantern]

How? Odahviing still flies freely and will go back to terrorizing Skyrim as soon as the LDB is out of the picture.

[sharp lantern]

An argument can be made for either, but ultimately I think there's a much stronger case for the Empire

[nova river]

I agree but the empire isnt exactly guiltless from their own atrocity. In the end I think I like the imperial jarls better then the stormcloak ones.

[sharp lantern]

Sure, the Empire isn't sinless... though the Medes, based on the limited data we have, seem to be doing okay

Taking into account the bad cards they were dealt

[nova river]

true

I dont think there should be an emperor, I think they should be ruled by the elder council, not some random warlord

[sharp lantern]

It depends imo, though the Empire under the Septim dynasty did see its longest period of peace when the Elder Council held most power - which was like 94 years.

[nova river]

my most hated person in skyrim is the mythic dawn wannabe in dawnstar

I hate serving mehrunes dagon, but I hate the guy more

[proven moss]

Yeah, he was like a parody of certain historical larpers IRL

He masked a fanboyish anemoia with feigned intellectual curiosity

Didn't he even say his ancestors were members? That was particularly on-the-nose, imo

[balmy salmon]

They can worry about that once they reach that point. Until then he's probably at the bottom of their priority.

Other, more immediately troublesome dragons to worry about in the meantime, plus the Thalmor to worry about.

[balmy salmon]

Not just members, he claims one of them was the agent who killed the Emperor.

[proven moss]

That's even worse, lol

[nova river]

exactly my point

[nova river]

what you mean the thalmor arent my friends like the cat people say?

cat people dont lie

[fair zephyr]

Were there dinosaurs or some kind of animal like that before elves and man

[balmy salmon]

There still are some dinosaur-like and pterosaur-like creatures in Tamriel.

In Black Marsh alone, there's the Wamasu, a large, electrically-charged reptile, there's massive reptiles called Swamp Leviathans, and there's also pterosaur-like Hackwings.

Additionally, Morrowind is home to Guar, Alits, and Kagouti.

[ancient lichen]

Just one. And he's immortal so it doesn't count.

[sharp lantern]

So why isn't Paarthurnax?

[plain cosmos]

Yeah. All the other Dragons flying around are a concern, and the one dragon who hasn't attacked anyone in thousands of years.

But the one dragon that isn't a killable entity because gameplay, he's not a high priority.

[raw grail]

Not exactly. From most information we have, the mortal life on Nirn were born from gods sacrificing themselves to create the world, its life, its laws... Those Ehlnofey that became the first mortals were split into two groups we explicitly know of, who became modern elves and men over time. Others became the various animal and plant life across Nirn. While this is not explicitly mentioned, ostensibly the other life on Nirn, like Lamia, Dreugh, Harpies, Lilmothiit, maybe even Sload... Were also born from gods sacrificing themselves, as the Ehlnofey were

Keeping that in mind, it's difficult for there to be mortal creatures who predate man or mer, unless you're not counting their Ehlnofey predecessors as man and mer

Crimson Paladin rightly pointed out many of the dino-like creatures, tho! Morrowind especially has a lot of that stuff. Cliff racers and Cliff striders and stuff feel appropriate too, perhaps even various reptile-like Daedra like Daedroths

[fair zephyr]

Dope

[fair zephyr]

Are argonians like khajjit where they take different forms based on the moons or stars or whatever or are they evolved to be human like

[fair zephyr]

Oh shoot my bad Dyno

[raw grail]

Sacrificing themselves for the world was necessary to finish it. It's kind of like being a parent: having and raising children requires you make sacrifices, concessions, and commitments that you might not otherwise. They did a similar thing here, but much more literally and wholly

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Monomyth
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Annotated_Anuad
These are two of the most commonly mentioned sources talking about it. There's others, and more to learn that isn't presented here, but they cover the basic ideas well enough

This section perhaps covers the sacrifice most concisely:
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Monomyth:_The_Myth_of_Aurbis

Finally, the magical beings of Mythic Aurbis told the ultimate story: that of their own death. For some, this was an artistic transfiguration into the concrete, non-magical substance of the world. For others, this was a war in which all were slain, their bodies becoming the substance of the world. For yet others, this was a romantic marriage and parenthood with the parent spirits naturally having to die and give way to the succeeding mortal races.
[...]
The magical beings created the races of the mortal Aurbis in their own image, either consciously as artists and craftsmen, or as the fecund rotting matter out of which the mortals sprung forth, or in a variety of other analogical senses.

[balmy salmon]

I think it's because he's been on their backlog forever.

[sharp lantern]

Odahviing hasn't paid for his crimes. There is no justification to demand Paarthurnax be killed yet not Odahviing.

[balmy salmon]

Odahviing paid for his crimes, or at least his pre-Dragon War ones, when he was killed the first time.

He's only recently resurrected, so Blades have no unpunished crimes to pin on him.

There's also the matter of pragmatism that while they may be willing to cut ties with the Dragonborn over Paarthurnax, trying to kill their subordinate dragon isn't worth the trouble it'll bring their way, especially with their order nearly extinct and the Thalmor still out there.

[plain cosmos]

Your honour, my client was legally dead. Therefore, they have served their 'life' sentence and are free to go.

[sharp lantern]

Odahviing isn't their subordinate.

Odahviing is only loyal to the LDB, as soon as the LDB is gone, he will terrorize the countryside again

[plain cosmos]

Or most likely WILL do. Free agent and all, it's possible he will be convinced otherwise

[sharp lantern]

In theory, yes, but he considers the Way of the Voice tyrannical.

[balmy salmon]

I meant he's the LDB's subordinate.

If Odahviing becomes a problem after the LDB is no longer in the picture, they will cross that bridge when they reach it.

[fair zephyr]

If Bretons are half human half high elf does that mean like a dark elf and a nord could reproduce or were the Bretons magically created

[upper field]

As far as we know, every race in Tamriel is compatible with one another.

[fair zephyr]

I know khajitt and argos aren’t compatible with anyone other than themselves right? Just like cats and lizards irl

But orcs and elves and men can all have children?

[agile herald]

Man and Mer can't reproduce together except in the case of Bretons who are half of each Beastmen operate under different birthing rules and are probably not compatible with man or mer

[agile herald]

Orcs are a species of elf

[sharp lantern]

Man and Mer definitely can reproduce among each other.

[agile herald]

Not like you'd expect though most half breeds inherent most of the dominant gene of the pairing

Bretons are halfbreeds but don't have elf ears just an affinity for magic for example

[sharp lantern]

Well yeah, but they still reproduce. IIRC, the traits of the mother are typically more pronounced.

[agile herald]

I wanted to mention the Grey Orc from Oblivion but I couldn't remember if he was a Half Breed confirmed or not

[sharp lantern]

Yeah, he was

Assuming you talk about Agronak gro-Malog

His mom was an Orc, his dad an Imperial vampire

[agile herald]

Yeah the champion of the arena

[nova river]

bretons are more then human and high elves

most bretons are born in high rock to direnni elves, which had a special thing called the perquisite of coitus, IE I go have sex with one them weird humans. Bretons however can be orc, bosmer, or dunmer, depending on the mother of the pairing

by all rights argonak gro malog should be a breton

breton society is determined by how much direnni blood you have in your veins, with the most being in charge

considering elven society has not been the kindest to the nedic humans, perhaps we should be thankful the direnni elves tried to snusnu the humans to death instead of killing them like falmer or torturing and displaying their remains like the ayelids.

honestly if history teaches us anything, it is that elves are not benevolent rulers and we shouldnt submit to our thalmor overlords.

I mean, yay thalmor

[slate shoal]

I wonder if ancient Falmer used spears, probably

Falmer >>>> Nords frfr

[slate shoal]

ok looking at it I believe Falmer armor used Moonstone and Brass

[agile herald]

I always imagine elves using Magic Primarily with no physical weapons (except wood elves)

[ancient lichen]

Or conjuring their weapons. Elves are known for their dexterity and grace.

[agile herald]

I imagine Dunmer (especially Ashlanders) Conjuring Spears but I have a hard time believing other elves would resort to such primitive weaponry styles

[nova river]

actually there was a snow elf called the snow elf prince which was killed in solstheim and was entombed out of respect and fear by the skaal. It is a one room dungeon in morrowind's blood moon expansion though the dragonborn dlc neglects it.

you get a steel armor and a spear

the story goes the skaal and nords would have lost to the falmer because of him. The nords didnt know what he was beyond some falmer general. Anyway a 10 year old girl killed him out of rage for him killing her parents and the nords entombed him in a tomb but didnt cover him with stahlrim

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Snow_Prince

[slate shoal]

yah I rember, honestly Bethesda needs to bing back spears

evil 10 year old grrr

[proven moss]

Seriously, spears are awesome

[nova river]

I thuought bethesda would make a reference to the snow prince

in the dragonborn dlc

missed opportunity I guess.

[proven moss]

I think maybe it's because the Falmer already featured in an important role in Dawnguard and Dragonborn this time around was meant to be more a Morrowind homage.

[nova river]

yea that makes sense

well off to play my breton spell knight playthrough

[fair zephyr]

Do a wood elf cannibal build

[slate shoal]

even then it'd have been a good nod to the best tes race

[sharp lantern]

Bretons are a specific race produced from centuries upon centuries of mating between Altmer and High Rock's Nedes, it is not as simple as one elf having a child with a race of Man and the child being Breton.

[gaunt bear]

Okay, I’ve got another thing from my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction I’d like some opinions on:

During the Fifth Blight, it was discovered that Kagrenac and Caridin (||https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Caridin||) were collaborators and, working together, they created a “flawless prototype” for the Anumidium. Unfortunately, the prototype was a little too flawless, and ended up breaking free from their control.

After it was shut down (not destroyed), Caridin and Kagrenac blamed each other for the failure, and this led to a falling out between the two.

During the Fifth Blight, Caridin was rediscovered, and Tarin (my Nerevarine) gave a “Does a weapon choose to be evil?” speech to convince Caridin to leave the “bind the golem to a control rod” step out of Golem creation, thereby allowing a small army of war golems to retain their free will, and thereby their ability to adapt to unusual situations and circumstances.

——

So, does this go against the lore or not?

[fair zephyr]

Are there cigars in tes

Or pipes of any kind like smoking

[topaz dome]

Tobacco exists in Tamriel. So I think we can assume that someone, somewhere, has invented smoking, it just isn't represented in the games. There are also Skooma pipes which, I assume, are used to smoke Skooma.

[upper field]

Reject Tobacco.
Embrace Skooma.
Please don't.

[fair zephyr]

So the main ingredient in skooma is moon sugar ?

Could you grind it into a fine powder and snort it

[agile herald]

It was to my understanding Skooma was drank and moon sugar was smoked

[agile herald]

Probably

[fair zephyr]

Oh I thought they made moon sugar into hookah

[gaunt bear]

Not going to lie, I'd like to see some hookahs capable of smoking Moon Sugar in Tamriel.

[agile herald]

You could probably smoke Moon Sugar through a Hookah in fact that could be how it is smoked traditionally but I always imagined them smoking it through pipes

[fair zephyr]

That was supposed to be skooma

[agile herald]

I wouldn't doubt that either but I've always imagined Skooma being something you drank

[nova river]

well christmas day is here, my oldest neice got me ferrer rocher and snickerdudle bodywash and deooderant. I wonder if this is a jab at my showering once a week.

I made a turkey, once more it is juicy and delicious. Anyone want some turkey come to colorado's san luis valley and come to my house and I will give you some.

[nova river]

🦃

[abstract ledge]

This is the correct interpretation of how bretons came to be their own race

[plain cosmos]

Logistically impossible, but that's what they CLAIM.

[abstract ledge]

why is it impossible

[plain cosmos]

The sheer quantity of admixture over the necessary timeline of about 200 years would effectively require a mass breeding program in order for any meaningful amount of Altmeri bloodline to remain present in the Bretons to the current point.

Were talking tends of thousands of offspring, a rate unheard of for Mer.

More likely, the characteristics of the Bretons were extant in the nedic population before the Direnni took power, and were favoured by the Direnni for social reasons and selected out of the native peoples for leadership roles.

Similar to the Hutu and Tutsi in Rawanda.

'More elf-like' then became a claim of literal Elven heritage, reinforced by the periodic intermarriage of high status Bretons and their Direnni rulers.

[slate shoal]

I wonder what Falmeri weapons like blades and maces might look like, I assume they'd have a shape resembling elven somewhat while still having a unique Falmeri motif, with it's white appearance since it lacks quicksilver

OH THAT'S WHY it's called Ivory !! moonstone has an ivory like appearance!!

[upper field]

In Skyrim, Paarthurnax says that it's been one hundred years since the last person trained with him. Curious, do we know who this last person was (before the PC ingame)?

[fair zephyr]

I thought is was one of the gregbearda

Don’t they live super long and he leads them

[nova river]

do you know that there is a theory that the horn of jurgen windcaller was made from paarthurnax's right side horn?

[abstract ledge]

200 years? from what year are you starting from

bretons have existed since the late merethic era, though those early bretons would be manmer

[glacial scarab]

It's more the whole "half elf" part.

At least I feel it's probably that.

[abstract ledge]

im confused about where the 200 years part came from

unless you mean the "The Bretons, in ten generations of Elven intermingling and slavery, had become scarcely recognizable as humans. " bit from PGE 3, though that was Khosey and their assumption was wrong about them being slaves from saarthal so i'd assume the timeline he gave was also wrong and intermingling might have been happening for centuries at that point

[plain cosmos]

It's the duration of the Hegemony and the Direnni control over the region.

[abstract ledge]

do you mean 1E 355? bretons predate that

[plain cosmos]

Yes, which kills the whole origin story as being a product of intermarriage into the Direnni overlords.

The Bretons have ALWAYS been that way. And it's not because of admixture with Altmer.

Nevermind that Racial aptitudes are dumb, but the timeline and population demographics simply don't line up.

[abstract ledge]

direnni probably absorbed the altmer clans in the region, its just the direnni were most successful in high rock.

but at minimum, the creator of chrysamere being breton and during the late merethic shows intermingling happening as early as that time

[plain cosmos]

Or, that the origin of the Bretons is incorrect and intermingling with Altmeri settlers was used as a post-hoc explanation by Tamriel's typically shoddy scholars.

Scholars who, at best, fall in with the real world equivalent of Phrenologists and proponents of Phantom Time.

[abstract ledge]

high rock's early history is full of contradictions at this point

[plain cosmos]

The entire SETTING is full of contradictions, or poorly thought out histories.

[abstract ledge]

the contradictions make it feel more realistic i feel

[plain cosmos]

Only if you read them as incomplete histories and perspectives on an absolute reality.

But TES doesn't tend to do that. It tends to lean into the nonsense of Perception=Reality and that all contradictions are equally true.

Which is a writing copout most of the time, and even when it isn't, is incredibly difficult to pull off.

And spoilers, TES doesn't pull it off even when it is appropriate.

But, at the end of the day, neither the 'Altmer Blood' nor the 'Sarthaal Slaves' explanation actually for the known history of the Bretons.

The Bretons simply exist too far back in time for either explanation to even be possible.

[fair zephyr]

Does wine in Skyrim come from jazbay grapes? Or are there vineyards with normal grapes that just aren’t in game? Or is all the wine imported from cerealodil

[proven moss]

Alto Wine 🍷 is made with Jazbay grapes

Other types of wine you see are either from other provinces or made from other grapes

[plain cosmos]

It's also likely that various provinces make Fruit Wines as well.

[fair zephyr]

I see

And where does like surlie brothers wine come from

I’m assuming argonian blood wine comes from the argonians

Black marsh

[proven moss]

Surlie Bros comes from Skingrad in Cyrodiil. It's a winery that featured in TES:IV

[gaunt bear]

Since I got a decent response from my last Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls judgement, I’ll do another one:

Josephine: “As part of Cyrodiil’s recognition of the Inquisition as an independent authority, they have handed Ulfric Stormcloak, leader of the Stormcloak rebellion and murderer of Skyrim’s High King Torygg (did I spell that right?), over to the Inquisition to face your judgement. The formal charges are: regicide, high treason, and murder.”

Maxwell: “That was just Cyrodiil’s fancy way of saying ‘he’s your problem now, not ours.’. But I’ll do my best. Ulfric Stormcloak, state your defense before Andraste, Maker’s-Bride.”

[ancient lichen]

There have been arguments that argonians are plants. They say that they "were made by the hist." So perhaps their blood is sweet enough that it can be fermented.

[nova river]

um my theory on argonian bloodwine is actually hist sap

or some form of other plants, Argonian stuff is not exactly my forte

[fair zephyr]

Racist

[nova river]

lizards taste funny anyway, not my favorite people to eat.

and I cant eat khajiit because they are so adorable

[fair zephyr]

Oh wait it’s Kaydin!

[nova river]

which leaves my own race, nords, imperials, redguards, altmer and dunmer

though I reckon dunmer taste like red mountain

[fair zephyr]

I didn’t see your name what’s up you pointy eared leaf lover

[nova river]

I will have you know my best friends are leaves.

[fair zephyr]

Rock and stone

Did all the dwarves die or what happened to them

[nova river]

that is a big mystery

the short answer and my personal theory is they tried to make their race divine and since mortal beings cant be divine, it killed them, vaporized them instantly

there is ONE dwemer still alive, in morrowind, in the corpsium who got the corpus disease and lives with other infected

he claims the reason why he didnt vanish was because he WASNT in mundus when the incident happen

he rides around on a spider legged chair

morrowind was a mad fever dream so my memories on it is...fuzzy

I played it before being medicated

so I cant remember details beyond almalaxia, sotha sil and vivic are buttheads

by the way the dwarves werent the nicest of people. For example, to give the falmer safety in their cities, they demanded the falmer drink a poison that makes them blind

and then tortured said falmer.

who in turned tortured everything else around them.

moral of the story: Evil begets evil.

[fair zephyr]

Tbf the elves are evil too

[nova river]

not my people

[fair zephyr]

You don’t eat people. Totally not

Aren’t the wood elves allied with the dominion

[nova river]

unwillingly

the thalmor performs purges in valenwood to those who speak out

calls them cleansings

besides compared to the other elven races, eating people is a low bar

altmer kill 9 out of ten babies and kills anything they dont consider pure

and dunmer practically worship boethiah and Mephala which are not the nicest daedra

azura's pretty good

[fair zephyr]

Humans are the best race everyone else is below them

[nova river]

quit sounding like a stormcloak

by the way what would the inquisition's judgement be for ulfric stormcloak?

[gaunt bear]

Here’s something I got for the Dwemer disappearance from my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction:

Maxwell: It turned out that the Mountain of Skyhold is also where a mostly intact city of Dwarves (Not-Dwemer) and Dwemer were living. Inside that city, somehow kept in magical stasis, was an uncorrupted (by Corprus, as Yagrum was) Dwemer Mage. Not only that, he was an ex-Tonal Architect turned battlemage. When we asked him about the Anumidium (since Leliana kept hold of the Anumidium blueprints, which were found during the Vvardenfell Crisis), the Dwemer mage gave a surprising answer to why time kept breaking each time the Anumidium was activated.

“We never finished it. The final regulator was not in place.”

Matthias: Not only that, he seemed to have a not-so-friendly rivalry with Kagrenac, because when we told him about the Totem of Tiber Septim and the Mantella, my (newly-enhanced-and-still-enhancing) hearing heard him say, “I told him that was a bad idea.”

[gaunt bear]

Funny you should mention that. Ulfric Stormcloak is facing judgment for his deeds here: #elder-scrolls-lore message

[nova river]

keep me up to date on the final decision. I am curious as to what the inquisitor decides

[gaunt bear]

Well, right now I’m letting the lore-nerds here write up his defense. After that, Matthias will reveal what Ulfric’s actions actually did, then Maxwell will pass his judgement.

[nova river]

@fair zephyr the dwarves found the heart of lorkhan and tried to use it's divine power to power numedium, a massive golem they tried to make their god.

but the nords and dunmer betrayed the dwemer and the dwemer in a last ditch effort did something with the heart and died out.

the tribunal had siphoned energy from it to make themselves divine, believing it can be used for good purpose. Despite that they slowly became more and more corrupt as time went on

almalaxia, one of the tribunal, killed sotha sil, and would have killed vivec if given a chance

[nova river]

hey @fair zephyr did you know that the argonians invaded mehrunes dagon's realm during the oblivion crisis?

[glacial scarab]

If I recall a person claims it but we don't have reliable sources on the results of a counter attack.

I'd imagine every group on Tamriel tried to counter attack we just only know the success of TES4 for sure because we were there.

[nova river]

the thalmor claimed to have stopped the crisis

but the argonians didnt necessarily stop the crisis. but rather, made mehrunes dagon decide to cut off portals to black marsh unless he gets counter invaded by the argonians

course the whole thing could be fake

just meant to make the argonians look more important then the rest of tamriel

[fair zephyr]

Humans could have done that they were just busy

[glacial scarab]

Supposedly. The source isn't exactly reliable if I recall the person was drunk and we have no way to get reliable information from it.

Hells we don't know why the gates supposedly closed. Could be Martin ending it and the story coming from that or the Daedra just cutting off the Argonians and killing them all in the Deadlands.

[fair zephyr]

Defending this realm

[nova river]

right now I am trying to decide to be a vampire or werewolf on my wood elf switch playthrough

I heard that necromage vampire builds is one of the strongest in the game but I dont like the idea of spending my eternity in cold harbor

besides I really dont like the transformation abilities of the werewolf and vampire, prefering to remain in human form and only transforming when dealing with plentiful enemies

not so sure I like hircine's kill or be killed in his hunting grounds either

atleast then I dont have to worry about molag bal schenanigans

besides I really like having crossbows

[fair zephyr]

What happens if you die in hircine hunting grounds

[nova river]

dont think you can die

[fair zephyr]

Then how is it kill or be killed?

[nova river]

shrugs

basically hircine spends their time with werewolves hunting and killing things

[slate shoal]

I think snow elves used pure moonstone armor hence the ivory armor name

regular elven is a moonstone/quicksilver alloy

[nova river]

what is with everyone's obsession with the snow elves

cant throw a dead cat without something something snow elves

[upper field]

...I don't have an obsession.

[robust lintel]

Sand elves will be the new craze. Then swamp elves, rock elves, shadow elves, shelf elves, Santa's elves

[upper field]

Don't forget Fish Elves aka the Maomer.

[agile herald]

Seamer

[slate shoal]

I'm autistic and hyperfixate on snow elves

so there's no actual reason besides that

anyways I was looking at the trim on architecture and noticed near the ends the straight lines curve in a slight repeating pattern

very subtle, reminds me of the Snow princes throne from ESO being more plain

[nova river]

the snow prince is in eso?

sweet

that is the only falmer I like

the snow elves should have faced the nords and died out instead of undergoing torture and being turned into monsters

[abstract ledge]

No

[sharp lantern]

Only his throne, it's an Antiquity IIRC.

[gaunt bear]

Still waiting for the lore-nerds in this channel to create Ulfric’s defense.

[plain cosmos]

You cannot defend the indefensible.

[gaunt bear]

Not what I meant. I meant that Ulfric has to justify his actions (killing Torygg and plunging Skyrim into chaos).

[plain cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/brooklyn-nine-nine-terry-jeffords-i-said-what-i-said-b99-brooklyn99-gif-19847457

[gaunt bear]

… but it’s not what I meant.

[plain cosmos]

To take it seriously, Ulfric has already justified his actions. Ancient traditions and his sincere belief that he is doing what is right for Skyrim.

Whether or not we agree is irrelevant. A justification is a justification, even if it's a bad one.

[gaunt bear]

Well, write it up so I can give Matthias’ answer, followed by Maxwell’s judgement.

[nova river]

Your honor, Ulfric Stormcloak did the things he did to prove our wretched condition, that serving an empire which doesnt bleed for us isnt worthy of our loyalty and respect. By submitting to the aldmeri Dominion, instead of fighting to the death, Ulfric proves that we should be allowed to rule ourselves, to choose our own fate instead of being told to like what an emperor decides is best for our people.

would also like to point out, that despite that argument, I believe that allying with the empire is the only way we will survive another great war.

to be fair though, the thalmor is actually losing power in summerset. So the next game may actually see the thalmor be ousted totally

the reason why they gained power to begin with is taking credit for ending the void nights AND oblivion crisis.

and the war with the empire was too far a stretch for them

[gaunt bear]

Matthias * speaking in a Dovah-like voice now * : Mindoraan. I understand that. But the far-reaching consequences are far greater than even he realized, for in killing Torygg, he sundered the Snow Tower, left it kingless, bleeding. And in doing so, he fulfilled the fifth sign that preceded the return of Al-du-in, first of the Firstborn of Divine Father’s children.

Josephine: Return?! Like he was destined to come back?!

Matthias * still speaking in Dovah-like voice * : Ah, Unslaad krosis. Allow me to speak truths that have been hidden to all, even the Junnesejir (did I get that word right?), the Akaviri, until this day.

The Tongues that did battle with him on the Throat of the World might have used the Dragonrend shout to cripple Alduin, but they were unable to match his strength in combat.

It was the Kel, the Elder Scroll they had brought with them. They combined its power with the Thu’um as their act of last resort. Such energy was released from the combination that time was… shattered, casting Alduin adrift on the currents of time.

Farengar Secret-Fire: “Shattered time”?! You mean a Dragon Break?! That would explain why there’s almost no records of the Dragon War.

Matthias: Indeed. Paarthunax and Jurgen Windcaller build their homes on the Throat of the World because they knew where Alduin would return, just not when.

[gaunt bear]

Josephine: … Are you saying the Tongues sent Alduin forward in time?!

Matthias: Krosis. Not intentionally, but that seems to be the consequence. But that wasn’t all. The one that is called the Conductor of Silence opened that which the Joorre call the Breach (||https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/The_Breach||).

Maxwell: Corypheus.

Matthias: Indeed. This event, combined with Alduin’s return, has brought about that which the Dovah refer to as the Lot Vulom, the Great Darkness: a period of turmoil and destruction so great as to threaten all things everywhere. But all is not lost. The Joor that is called the Inquisitor now holds the Lot Kun, the Great Light, the only force capable of standing against the Lot Vulom.

(Author: Now all we need is Ulfric’s reaction to this news, and I’ll post Maxwell’s judgment of Ulfric. As promised.)

[nova river]

imagine a wood elf emperor. as my first decree as emperor I would like to make eating corpses legal.

[slate shoal]

no just his chair

snow elves definitely used a rough marble with brass for architecture but what stone was their flooring?

[slate shoal]

probably marble LMAO

snow elf architecture shows curved spikes near the end of parts like the ends of the sun

[slate shoal]

they had pretty cool door hinges

door doohickeys? the thingabob

[robust lintel]

Quartz? Idk

[slate shoal]

It's probably marble too lol

[nova river]

I need a werewolf song to play when I wolf out

so I got a question for you lore nerds out there. I have watched a bosmer lore video, one about the bosmer and the other about their gods and both mention hircine being a deity that some bosmer choose to enter a pact with to upset yffre. Can any of you provide more detail then y'ffre doesnt want the bosmer to hve more then one shape?

[clever goblet]

its probably just the fact that their forms given by Y’frre are considered sacred, and their change from the primordial chaotic forms they probably harbored in the dawn era before Y’ffre showed up was definitely for the best. I mean, look at how violent wild hunts are when the bosmer initiate it (war against Khajiit, High King Borgas’ death)

im also not necessarily a lore nerd and I don’t focus on the bosmer much so someone else can definitely give out a way better explanation 😭🙏

hell it sounds pretty terrifying to go up against Bosmer who initiate that ritual.
Basically a constantly shapeshifting eldritch monstrosity composing of every possible beast you can think of on its way to devour you with no way of stopping it.

[nova river]

yea that make sense.

just think that a bosmer archer shooting at you and they become a werewolf when you get close is wee bit skury.

very skurry

[clever goblet]

I’d much prefer facing a bosmer turning into werewolf then a bosmer who does the ritual to initiate a wild hunt 👁️

[nova river]

either way you are getting eaten

[gaunt bear]

@nova river and any other lore nerds:

I still haven’t got Ulfric’s reaction to Matthias’ revelation (here: #elder-scrolls-lore message) and I need that before Maxwell passes his judgement.

[slate shoal]

I wonder what snow elf blacksmiths wouldve looked like

[raw grail]

Have you considered starting a server or GC to roleplay out parts of your fanfic w people who are interested and/or informed? It seems a lot more convenient than telling people to write up responses for you in public chat, and might lower the chances that you get miles of chat drowning you out between things

[gaunt bear]

I tried that. It didn’t go over so well.

[raw grail]

Ah that sucks

[nova river]

I like dragon age and elder scrolls

infact right now I am workin on beating veilguard

[slate shoal]

I feel like current snow elf populations would likely hold no vendetta against Nords, especially since they're probably more focused on surviving

[upper field]

Outside the one from Dawnguard, we don't even know if there are more alive that aren't Falmer. It's possible there are, but also possible there aren't.

[nova river]

you know bethesda created a snow elf race for the game

it is basically a recolored eye and skin version of altmer but maybe getting a mod which lets it be selected as a race would help

course on xbox there is like literally thousands of snow elf mods for people

cant swing a dead cat without hitting one

[nova river]

look I have no qualms about the snow elves. Cool the option to play as a lost race is appealing

but the past few months I have been hearing how great they are and such I think if I hear the word snow elf once more, I am going to attack the person who said it

dont get me wrong I love serana

but snow elves are overrated

I am just pissed that the psijics are preventing shor from coming back

[clever goblet]

What do the Psijics have to do with Shor?

[gaunt bear]

I’m going to wrap this up so I can move on to the next one I have planned:

Maxwell: Ulfric Stormcloak. Know that it is not for your sake that I do this, but for the sake of all Thedas and Mundus. I hereby remove you from your position of Jarl of Windhelm and ban you, and all your descendants, from ever laying claim to the Jagged Crown of Skyrim.

Ulfric: No execution?

Maxwell: In return, you and all your followers will enjoy all the benefits of being members of the Inquisition, including religious freedom as long as you don’t go forcing it down other people’s throats.

Ulfric: … even if it’s Talos?

Maxwell: Andraste, Maker’s-Bride, chose me to be her herald. The Inquisition chose me to be their leader. The only thing I can really do is work to justify their decisions, even if it means standing against the Great Darkness you, unwittingly, helped release.

(Author: this is also to help set up another part of the plot: ||the Thalmor attack on Skyhold.||)

[gaunt bear]

@nova river So, what do you think?

[slate shoal]

I dislike serana
but also I just think the Falmer are fascinating

[gaunt bear]

Matthias: I’ve been doing “Dream research” into the ancient giants (mainly because of their Ancient Flame) and, because I’m Dovahkiin, I’ve discovered something pretty vicious about their culture:

They were pretty intense on sacrificing flesh and blood.

According to the memories of the Fade, once giant mages got access to the Adept level spells, they had to offer up their own flesh and blood or else it won’t work. The higher the spell, the more flesh and blood that had to be offered.

The biggest memory I’ve seen of that was during the battle between Alduin and the last High Priest of the Giants. At one point, the Giant Priest’s leg was badly broken, so he ripped it off, quite literally, immolated it as some kind of offering, and blasted Alduin with an extremely powerful flame, more powerful than any master level Destruction spell.

Faralda: What?! And you didn’t study it?!

Matthias: I didn’t get the opportunity to. I was dreaming, and I still lost both my eyebrows and most of my beard!

[silent obsidian]

Completely unrelated to this, so I thought about what your sorta physical soul infusion powers which could occur and my current thoughts are sorta a mix between a Dragonknight (the ESO class), and Akatosh related stuff, so they would probably stop aging, wounds would probably start reverting sometimes, their movement would be like a dragon despite being the physical form of a humanoid, and then normal Dragonborn stuff obviously

[gaunt bear]

I’ve been working on that as well, and I’ve got, as an end result, a Dovah-Saxleel hybrid sort of thing.

[silent obsidian]

Interesting

[gaunt bear]

Right now, the changes afflicting Matthias are purely magical/spiritual, but it won’t be too long before physical changes start beginning. However, he’ll also have access to a Shout that’ll allow him to assume his original form.

[gaunt bear]

Of course, one thing I do have planned (if only for it being funny to me) is the ability to “feed” a ||sexual|| Desire demon so much that they swell up a la Violet Beauregard.

[nova river]

@gaunt bear I like your decision!

[gaunt bear]

Thank you.

@silent obsidian Since you thought my previous idea was “interesting”, here’s a few more of my ideas for you to comment on:

During the Vvardenfell Crisis, the Fifth Blight quite literally spilled over into Morrowind, leading to a few key differences:

• The ‘Assassinate the Telvanni Councilors’ mission became the ‘Sanitize the Blighted Outbreak’ mission, with the Telvanni Councilors ending up dead anyway

• Master Neloth challenged Uldred to a magical duel, ending with Uldred’s death.

• Dagoth Gares was encountered in the Temple of Sacred Ashes (or what would become said temple) because Dagoth Ur viewed the Ashes of Andraste as a threat to his plans. Whether or not that was true will never be known, because the ashes, while remaining pure, vanished from the ruins after being used to cure Arl Eamon.

• Kagrenac and Caridin were collaborators, but had a falling out due to their prototype for the Anumidium being a little ‘too flawless’. Also, Tarin (my Nerevarine) convinced Caridin to update his golem design by simply leaving out the “bind to a control rod” step, thereby making them smarter and more efficient fighters, and only binding a control rod to the golem only if a condemned criminal is being used and execution is too good for them.

[tribal geode]

Hi guys! Passing by just to ask a quick question if you'll be so kind to help me: today I had some kind of inspiration on some possible interesting plot for ESVI. I'd like to share it with someone of Bethesda: do you happen to know anyone or any reference to which send I do not know ideas or something? Thank you in advance.

of course not asking anything here: just the hope the game will be cool and who knows maybe some words I've to share could be useful to do something who knows 🙂

[proven moss]

This is the official server so if you hope your idea gets seen, this is the place to post it.
Mind I think you're probably a bit late on the scene to be suggesting a possible plot. The game has already been in full production for over a year, and I'd guess a lot of the planning for the game happened in pre-production years ago.

[robust trout]

I think they've said it before but, sharing these with BGS can actually cause them big problems in the legal sense. If you hope to see something in 6, either post it privately elsewhere or keep it to yourself (meant in the nicest way possible).

[tribal geode]

Ok guys thank you for your help 🙂

I guess at this point it's better I'll stay silent... well who knows maybe tomorrow I'll be capable to do a game and I'll use my plot ih ih

Thank you again

[nova river]

imagine: a high elf who isnt an arrogant piece of crap

[upper field]

Isn't the Priest of Arkay in Falkreath a High Elf?

[nova river]

yes

[upper field]

Seems pretty chill to me.

[nova river]

and he isnt arrogant.

so it can be done!

[raw grail]

Runil, Fasendil, Faralda...

[raw grail]

Runil!

[balmy salmon]

The horse merchant in Windhelm and his wife.

Viarmo, the headmaster of the Bards College

[slate shoal]

me when I stereotype

[raw grail]

Also Niranye

Why did it delete my reply 😦

[proven moss]

So I was recently clued in to a obscure TES artifact
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Manshrieker

Maaaybe we'll see it in TES VI?

[robust lintel]

Them stomach bugs will make anyone shriek.. 😱 hope they got plenty of buckets nearby!
Nice spear weapon tho!

[upper field]

It would interesting in ES6 if the quest from Boethiah involved bring Fearstruck back. It's a little weird it hasn't been repaired by Boethiah given that it's a literal extension of him/her.

[proven moss]

Whether or not they're extension of princes (I'm not too sure given a good number have mortal origins), I think Bethesda has pretty well established the magical nature of their existence. It's lore that the artifacts have a tendency to disappear and reappear vast distances across Tamriel. And we've seen at least Umbra make a reappearance after being pretty securely destroyed in the novels.

Fearstruck definitely should make a return though

Anybody have any suggestions for artifacts that perhaps appear in lore, or only made a limited appearance in the games, to make a comeback?

[upper field]

The only other artifact that comes to mind is the Daedric Crescent. It was an idea for it to appear in the Creation Club for Skyrim, but it got shot down because of animations I believe.

Speaking of, it's said in Morrowind that you recover "the last" Daedric Crescent. How wide spread was this artifact for there to have been more than one?

[proven moss]

A bunch of them were made for use in the attack on the Battlespire

mass-produced of a sort

[proven moss]

So it's artifact status is more due to its singularity I guess

[balmy salmon]

Yeah. According to Tamrielic Lore, the Empire destroyed all the Crescent Blades that they could find once Battlespire was retaken.

[upper field]

What does the Crescent Blade do?

[plain cosmos]

Patalize and Disintegrate Armour. According to Morrowind anyway.

On top of being an incredibly inefficient but bad ass weapon design.

[gaunt bear]

“Patalize”?

[plain cosmos]

Patalize

Why is autocorrect....

PaRalize

[gaunt bear]

I’ve got another funny thing to share from my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction:

Dragonborn: Enlighten me. Why are we stockpiling writing equipment at 7:00 in the morning?

Phinis Gestor: For note taking, what else?

Drevis Neldoren (did I get that right?): Just think, the Fade has been touched by all mortals who dream, including some of the greatest mages throughout history! Just imagine what lost knowledge could be found there!!!

Maxwell: * pulls out a sign that reads ‘Shhhhh… Lecture.’ * I hope you all realize how dangerous this is. I only opened that rift at Adamant Fortress to prevent me and my allies from falling into the abyss there, and the last time such a thing was deliberately attempted, we ended up with Darkspawn.

Matthias: Well, don’t blame me. I didn’t write this script.

[fossil pendant]

How old is the ratway

[proven moss]

Pretty old probably. It's made of stone, definitely predates the fire that destroyed Riften

[lapis thorn]

So random question, what was the purpose of the Dwemer Puzzle Cubes when they were created? Because from my understanding everything that the Dwemer made had some form of purpose to be made but this one I can't quite figure out other than it just being a children's toy of which looking around to see any other references of Dwemer toys, other than what would be made in Clockwork City, there's nothing so while it may perhaps be not just a toy but the only toy the Dwemer has made. But then why just make one type of toy? There has to be something to the Dwemer Puzzle Cube other than just being a simple toy.

[glacial scarab]

Well we don't know. it would require you to ask a dwemer... if you can find one and if Yagrum is lucid enough

[gaunt bear]

Matthias: I've actually been looking into this in the Fade, because Dwemer clearly dream. So far, the spirits of the Fade have been saying that there's "something good" inside, and that they're meant to test, and reward, Dwemer children. I've only found one so far, so I'll let you know what i've found out, when i've found it out.

[slate shoal]

Did the Falmer want the eye of Magnus to read elder scrolls safely ? just a sleepy thought bweh

[plain cosmos]

I think they just wanted it buried. Nothing more.

[gaunt bear]

Matthias: I shouldn’t have been surprised, yet here we are. I succeeded in opening a Dwemer puzzle box, and found some crystals in it. But, because of my awakening Dov heritage (which involves, quite literally, tasting gems), I tasted one of the crystals, and discovered it to be ancient * dramatic drumroll * rock candy. I should have realized it since the spirits said they were meant for Dwemer children.

[gaunt bear]

Can’t say I blame them. Look at what happened in Winterhold.

[brisk perch]

So, Talos is Mannimarco is the Dark Moon is Lorkhaj.

[gaunt bear]

Say what?

https://tenor.com/view/vae-gif-15357506855217945854

[gaunt bear]

Since I got such a positive response from my last two judgements (Paarthunax and Ulfric Stormcloak), I’ll include another one:

Josephine: They said it wouldn’t be over until the fat lady sings, but now she’s singing the Chant of Light because we’ve finally caught the Grey Fox, Cyrodiil’s greatest thief! He’s been missing ever since the Oblivion Crisis, but was caught with his hand in the cookie jar… or rather, one of our Inqusition Agent’s pockets.

Maxwell: What I want to know is, how can you “vanish” for 200+ years, then suddenly show up looking like you haven’t aged a day.

Grey Fox (anyone wearing the Grey Cowl): When the Oblivion gates opened, I smelled an opportunity. The Daedra steal our souls; I steal their stuff. That’s fair, right? Only, when the Gates finally closed, I ended up on the wrong side.

Josephine: I hate to sound so obnoxiously cliché, but… two wrongs don’t make a right.

Author/Me: Now I need a good defense, since this is also judgement of Cyrodiil’s Thieves Guild (Brynjolf, Karliah, etc.). After that, I’ll give the official judgement I’ve got in my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction.

[plain cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/the-house-will-ferrell-the-math-seems-to-check-out-gif-8225008

[proven moss]

Kinda hard to judge both at once since they operate under different rules

[gaunt bear]

Then I’ll simplify it for simplicity’s sake: First, Josephine delivers the accusations; second, Maxwell comments on it; third, the defense presents their statement/justification; finally, Maxwell makes his judgement.

[brisk perch]

Essentially, the Dark Moon is the true spirit of Lorkhaj.
The Dark Moon is the Necromancer's Moon, and I think the prevailing theory was that in one version, Mannimarco manages to mantle the Dark Moon at the end of Daggerfall.
Khajiit used to use necromancy to ask the dead to help the living, in order to help those that were lost on the path to their afterlife, the Sand Behind the Stars, back on their way to Azurah's embrace.

Talos becoming the ninth Divine, or at least a divine entity, seems to have only been completed as a result of the last of his fragments passing on in Daggerfall as well, and Talos may or may not also be a mantling of Lorkhan.

This would make sense in some aspects of why the Thalmor would be so against Talos, not just that another Man was being worshiped, but also that it was a also Mannimarco at the same time.
I could try to tie it into the void nights, but that's already stretching this theory.

[robust lintel]

Question: Do Khajiit have 9 lives?
I keep running into the same Khajiit assassins on the perilous roads of Skyrim.

[brisk perch]

No, but sometimes they have multiple turns on Nirni
The same NPC returning again and again like that might be a divergence between lore and gameplay, due to limitations of how many NPC's they can set up and use for a single encounter.
If it's the same named NPC, I'd blame it on timey wimey wibbly wobbly stuff.

[zenith atlas]

I need some help understanding some of the lore leading up to- and unraveling in- Skyrim. I've been thinking about making an Altmer that's basically like an undercover agent for the Aldmeri Dominion, sent into Skyrim to infiltrate and join the ranks of the Stormcloaks to ensure the rebellion wins in Skyrim, thus kind of strengthening the Dominion's grip on Tamriel- weakened Empire and all.
My question is this: How should I go about the Dark Brotherhood questline with aforementioned character? Would killing the emperor help the Dominion (weakened Empire, etc.)? Or would it be best to keep him alive, as to prevent a successor from wiping the slate clean- in regards to the White-Gold Concordat and whatnot?

[robust lintel]

M'aiq the Khajiit must have 9 lives though

[brisk perch]

They might be the purring liar, or one of his shadows, or a family line of Khajiit named M'aiq.

[clever goblet]

M’aiq is Rahjin the Thief God confirmed

[slate shoal]

apparently kirkbride thought the Kamal are snow elves which would be neat

[nova river]

Believe it or not the thalmor Don't want a stormcloak victory as it doesn't necessarily weaken the empire as much as constant warfare does. I can see killing the emperor weakening the empire though

So the best way to weaken both sides is to let the war go on without help

But quests sitting in your log is no fun

[agile herald]

Assassinating the Emperor in a Thalmor Supporting playthrough wouldnt make a lot of sense the current emperor is basically a puppet I don't think the Thalmor would want him taken out

[brisk perch]

If you put a bug zapper near a Moth Priest, will they be drawn towards it?

[robust lintel]

Idk, but they'll surely be left blinded by it.

[glacial scarab]

Well I doubt he's a puppet. Just following a treaty until they're ready. (Said Treaty is how Ulfric's actions got the Thalmor in to enforce a treaty that wasn't being enforeced)

Thalmor supporting playthrough for assassinating Mede requires a lot more information then the game gives you. As information wise we're locked to Skyrim and don't really hear much of Cyrodiil.

A big hole in information is what is Titus working on in Cyrodiil. What's the status of TItus' heirs (alive, dead, anti or pro Thalmor?) and what's the real goal for assassinating Mede (going for the Anti-Dominion heir or pro-Dominion heir).

[tropic tulip]

Is there a lore reason why molag bal is hot?

[gaunt bear]

That has to be the most crazy, convoluted question anybody has to answer.

[tropic tulip]

🥰

[clever goblet]

Molag Bal is the LAST prince anyone should fall for considering what hes known for in the lore

[gaunt bear]

I said it would be a crazy, convoluted question to answer.

[gaunt bear]

But now I’ve got a question for all the lore-nerds to answer: I was told that (for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction), among the Daedric Princes, Molag Bal and Meridia would be among those who support the Inquisition, even though Molag and Meridia are sworn enemies. Why, though? I know that Meridia would support the Inquisition due to their shared common interest (the opposition of Necromancy in all its forms), but why would Molag?

I’ve planned that, during the events of ESO, the Vestige ended up traveling to Thedas while Andraste was still alive, and it was because of Andraste and her faith in the Maker/Divine Father Akatosh that the Amulet of Kings was awakened/activated without a sacrifice, thereby causing Molag to * censored to prevent spoilers * both the Vestige, Andraste, and Maferath in revenge.

[agile herald]

I get what you're talking about but as it is currently with the information available to the player assassinating the emperor would cause too much chaos when the Thalmor would probably rather have Stability to cause controlled chaos like they've been doing in Skyrim with the civil war

[glacial scarab]

The issue is we know very little about Cyrodiil. We don't know what would happen after Titus dies because they never expand anything about the background for the assassination.

We don't know what chaos the Emperor's Assassination would cause. We know the DB try to frame the Stormcloaks in parts but nothing really is expanded on.
Only thing we get from Skyrim is an Elder Councillor wants Titus dead but we don't get the motive for what they are trying to change. Like what's their goals and do they align with other factions?

What we have in Skyrim is just how Skyrim is. There's really not much worldbuilding outside of Skyrim. We don't even know the leadership structure of the Thalmor. Like who leads them? Sauron the High Elf?

[zenith atlas]

Appreciate the info and conversation, guys! (yes, I read through everything y'all posted) A lot to think about. 🤔

Where do y'all stand on the theory that Ulfric is a Thalmor sleeper agent/asset?

[robust lintel]

Ty! ☺️

[zenith atlas]

One has to believe that IF Ulfric is a Thalmor asset, of sorts, that the Thalmor would want his rebellion to win in in the end, right? Like, if there were only 2 options of either side winning, then the Thalmor would want the Stormcloaks to win. Again, assuming Ulfric is a Thalmor asset, and assuming the rebellion is a farse.

As far as Titus goes, I have to agree with Ben that assassinating him would cause too much chaos / it's easier for the Thalmor to keep an emperor alive that's already cooperating than have to deal with a new emperor and all the "what ifs" that would come with them. That's just my half-baked input, though.

[glacial scarab]

The big issue on Titus is really the big hole in worldbuilding that is Cyrodiil. Skyrim simply doesn't tell us enough about Titus to even know what he's doing.

We don't know the status of his heirs nor what their views are and we don't know the status of anything else in Cyrodiil.

Only thing we have is that the Thalmor are only in to enforce a treaty about Talos worship and that the Empire is building for another war.

Which makes it impossible to truly tell how the Thalmor would view assassinating Titus because everything that would affect the choice is all in Cyrodiil that doesn't get any details.

[agile herald]

A Thalmor Supporting Playthrough doesn't join in on the Civil War because the Thalmor want the war to continue as long as possible there's an in game book in the Thalmor Embassy you should read I can't tell the you the title word for word but it's Ulfric Stormcloaks Dossier inside its reported that a Stormcloak or Imperial Victory is to be avoided

Don't forget to help the one Justiciar in Markarth btw

[tropic tulip]

Srry I can't hear all y'all over my cool powers https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1269041330521112658/1314732001328238743/image.png?ex=67a14e17&is=679ffc97&hm=c675b3f031cba6556517cb88f4ea6b651e959bcfab58802868540869af3b8f45&

[robust lintel]

https://media1.tenor.com/m/e8nEMt06pd0AAAAd/little-nicky-magic-bunnies.gif

[gaunt bear]

https://tenor.com/view/the-miz-disappointed-shakes-head-shaking-my-head-annoyed-gif-17860184

[nova river]

I prefer being a furry a werewolf, less likely to have bad things happening to you by a corrupt god

[gaunt bear]

That may be the case, but you’ll still be stolen away by Hircine once your time is up.

[nova river]

Not the meanest daedric prince

[gaunt bear]

I’ll get this wrapped up so I can work on something later:

Maxwell: With the enemy the Inquisition is up against, some sacrifices have to be made. I hereby bind you, and your guild, to work for the Inquisition.

Grey Fox: But I’m not a warrior or a mage.

Maxwell: No, but you’re the greatest thief in all of Cyrodiil. A title like that has to come with some experience. And just think: all the valuable intel that the Venatori and Red Templars leave lying around their camps and bases? The Inquisition will pay handsomely for anything useful found.

Not to mention the lost treasured knowledge of ancient civilizations that still remain imprisoned in ancient ruins. The Inquisition is going to need all the help we can get to secure it before our enemies do.

And with a spinmeister like Varric, we can have all the nobles of Orlais coming to you for their “Great Game” (||https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/The_Grand_Game||).

Grey Fox: … Can’t say I’m not intrigued by your offer. Alright. I’m in. I’ll meet with your spymaster later to discuss the jobs and terms you’re offering.

Maxwell: I’m sure that Lady Nightingale will have plenty to do for your guild.

[gaunt bear]

So, what do you think of this judgement, @nova river and others?

[slate shoal]

snow elves r so cool ...

(they live in the north cold part of tamriel)

[brisk perch]

They're also likely responsible for Atmora getting frozen over permanently in retaliation for the Snow Elves getting wiped out... in retatliation for the Night of Tears... sometimes this one weaps for the world.

[clever goblet]

Do we have anything else that could allude to that other then that one eso book?

[brisk perch]

Not really, but you need to start somewhere for adding lore

[gaunt bear]

(from my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction)

Matthias: Because of my Dovahkiin powers becoming stronger ever since the Breach opened, I’ve been looking into the distant past, in the deeper parts of the Emerald Waters of the Fade, and found something interesting:

-Memory Begins-

Person A: He’s in gaol for a reason!

Person B: For saying what we’re all thinking?

Person A: You actually want to live forever?! Plowing the same field over and over again?!

Person B: We know the elves can live for centuries without becoming old. We know they lord it over us.

Person A: And so you want to wage war with the elves for needless immortality?!

Person B: I want the high king to listen to good ideas.

Person A: Then he should have nothing to do with that… fiend. Going to war with the Elves over immortality isn’t a bad idea. It’s the worst idea imaginable!!

-Memory ends-

Matthias: This discovery seems to prove that the war against the Snow Elves wasn’t popular with everyone. It also seems that the war was being urged by… someone… a “fiend”… who was close to Atmora’s old High King. It also seems to be a clue that Atmora’s turn to ice was caused by something else entirely.

Maxwell: Whatever it means, I intend to find out the truth of it.

[slate shoal]

grrr atmorans

not too fond of them

[raw grail]

I'm only responding to the first paragraph here, but: no. Ulfric is an unwilling asset, not an agent or anything like that. He's being manipulated into doing things favorable to the Thalmor, and destabilizing to the Empire. The Thalmor don't want him to win because that means he isn't currently causing chaos and drawing resources and attention from the Empire. They want it to continue for as long as it can. If someone had to win, sure, I imagine the Stormcloaks would be preferable because that's a less stable outcome, but they don't want anyone to win

Operational Notes: Direct contact remains a possibility (under extreme circumstances), but in general the asset should be considered dormant. As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. [...] A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.

He was made to believe information obtained during his interrogation was crucial in the capture of the Imperial City (the city had in fact fallen before he had broken), and then allowed to escape. After the war, contact was established and he has proven his worth as an asset.

Ah, my phone was a couple days up. Whoops

[fleet hazel]

I mean, to be honest with you this is a longstanding debate in the community but it is rather obvious that a war-torn, weakned and now independant Skyrim would invite direct military intervention by the Dominion. One they wouldn't be able to properly fight against and, gasp! They could even find allies within Skyrim. The first that comes to mind are the Reachmen who are itching for a second go at Markarth.

I believe the Dark Brotherhood could be strange bedfellows to the Thalmor as they got a bone to pick with the Empire.

[fleet hazel]

The College of Winterhold could be an asset if the Thalmor hadn't sent a James Bond villain there.

[agile herald]

Dark Brotherhood isn't meant to take sides only thing that matters is who's doing the Black Sacrement

[fleet hazel]

I don't trust Skyrim's Brotherhood to do that.

[ocean wraith]

I agree with Ben, the dark brotherhood just cares for murder and the money received

[agile herald]

Astrids Brotherhood is pretty much in name only I agree about not trusting Skyrims Brotherhood they've strayed far from their original ideals and rules

[ocean wraith]

Ye

[glacial scarab]

TBF Astrid really had no choice. Night Mother decided to not talk to people for nearly two decades didn't help.

[gaunt bear]

I’ve got, in my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction, that, due to the Eye of Magnus incident, the College of Winterhold is becoming the next Casablanca.

[balmy salmon]

I don't think the Dominion will be able to invade Skyrim any time soon. They'd have to go through Cyrodiil or Hammerfell, or sail all the way around the continent to invade by sea, and with most of the Legion just across the Dominion border, I don't think they can afford to divert troops and resources to fight a war on the opposite end of Tamriel.

[gaunt bear]

I’ve also got something planned for the Dominion in my fanfiction, but to prevent too many spoilers, I’ll mention this:

The Dominion Leaders learn about the Anchor and what it can, supposedly, do and send a force to capture it. This eventually leads to the Siege of Skyhold, where their arrogance (and ‘victory high’, for lack of a better term, from the Great War) leads them to declare war on the inquisition, which has unexpected consequences for everyone.

Why do they do it? Partly because the people of South Thedas declare Andraste (whom Maxwell claims the title of ‘Herald of Andraste’) to be a goddess, and they take umbrage to this in the same way they took umbrage to the claim that Talos is a god.

[fleet hazel]

I think, but I can't say for sure because we don't have a full picture, that the Thalmor could use Balfiera as staging grounds for an invasion of Skyrim.

The Summerset Isles are a naval powerhouse, and I'm sure the Thalmor can press-gang a couple thousand Redguards into their service for extra naval superiority.

[glacial scarab]

While the Empire and others are still there yeah they're not touching Skyrim yet but they'll make sure it stays unstable though.

Though for distance and logistics that's an issue of where TES really doesn't world build on as honestly TES doesn't world build with magic enough.

Portals are well shall we say not well thought out. As with how little portals are thought of they can outright remove all logistical issues.

Invading a place like Russia and it turns to Winter? (More of a historical example) No problem. Attrition would only come from the defenders and not the elements nor a lack of food due to portals reducing logistical problems greatly.
Invading a place doing the Fabian strategy? No problem because you can just open a portal to where your food supply is safe in your homeland.
Need reinforcements deep behind enemy lines? No problem just open a portal.
Stuck in a siege? No problem just portal you and your forces out to escape and not get stuck in a year long siege.

The above is why portals need restrictions as a lot of things just break if you don't have any. And if I recall ESO added a restriction in which food not properly prepared spoils when going through portals. This is just the military side.

[fleet hazel]

Me thinking of the Ayleids just straight up flying into battle that one time.

[raw grail]

Imo the Thalmor haven't shown much interest in military control of Skyrim

I'm sure they'd eventually invade, considering they want to show their superiority to man and restore the Merethic Era and all that. However, their current priorities are southern Hammerfell, and destabilizing the Empire (neither of which are particularly helped by controlling Skyrim)

[raw grail]

Good points

[raw grail]

Hammerfell is one of the least likely places for them to get significant allies, considering they're probably the one place that hates the Thalmor more than Skyrim does rn

[raw grail]

Along similar lines: they don't currently have control of Balfiera. We don't even actually know they want control of it, it's just a common theory because some other Altmeri stuff makes the Adamantine Tower seem like a potential desire of theirs

[raw grail]

Oh, yeah, that top part is a good point (I mean good points all throughout but I'm focusing on the first sentence rn). I doubt they'll invade Skyrim soon, but I'm sure it'd remain a target for destabilization and manipulation

[fleet hazel]

I don't mean a takeover. I think they'd only attack Skyrim if the Empire failed really badly and over an extended period of time to eliminate Talos worship there.

I would put Skyrim as a secondary target at best for now.

[raw grail]

I thought you were talking about if it went independent

[fleet hazel]

I didn't fully explain myself, my bad, but I don't think the Thalmor want to be the Empire but elven and racist. They'd only invade Skyrim if the Empire couldnt get rid of Talos worship and Ulfric wasn't an unwitting asset anymore.

[fleet hazel]

Didn't they conquer some parts of it? I believe the Dominion made both gains and, even if shaky of few, allies there.

[fleet hazel]

I think it's likely they'll actually go for Balfiera. Otherwise I believe there is either a book or note where it states that the Dominion is purging Balfiera of inpure elves though that could be covert, spy action.

[raw grail]

Not permanently. When the Great War finished, the White-Gold Concordat handed southern Hammerfell to the Dominion. Hammerfell disagreed and continued fighting, largely successfully, even if it wore them down a lot. In the end, they and the Dominion signed the Second Treaty of Stros M'kai, and Hammerfell became independent, keeping all of its territory and establishing tenuous peace. There's still some conflict in the background, but officially, the Dominion doesn't hold any territory in Hammerfell, or if they do, we haven't been made aware of it and it's been made to sound as if they don't

[raw grail]

Could you find that source? That's very surprising

[raw grail]

Speaking of: this is largely sourced from The Great War

[fleet hazel]

I'm going to look for it.

[raw grail]

Thankies

[fleet hazel]

USP, Balfiera page

"Thalmor agents were harassing and possibly murdering refugees in Balfiera and Sentinel around 4E 48; the victims were all of mixed blood or had associations considered by the Aldmeri Dominion to be "unclean".[22]"

This is information from the Lord of Souls book.

I mean, if they can do that they must have some degree of control.

[glacial scarab]

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/lord-of-souls-lore-notes-miscellaneous

“Thalmor agents continue to harass the refugee communities in Sentinel and Balfiera—there has been a series of murders in the latter we can pretty confidently assign to them. The pattern is typical—the victims were all of mixed blood or had associations considered by the Aldmeri Dominion to be unclean. It’s much worse in Valenwood—our supplies are no longer reliably getting to the rebels there. Sixty were caught and executed last week, along with four of our own men. There’s a leak we [the Penitus Oculatus] don’t know about, someplace. They know too much about our movements. … [there are] no Thalmor connections to the east at all.”

Skyrim has Legate Fasendil who talks of what went down in Sentinal

Sounds like you've seen you far [sic] share of hardship.
"The life of a soldier is full of hardship. That's nothing. But they send the Legion to places that've gotten too bad to be settled without violence. What's hard is seeing good people warped by evil. And I've seen the face of evil. It was in the air above Sentinel on the Night of Green Fire."

What happened during the Night of Green Fire?

"Back in 42 I was stationed in Hammerfell, on leave in Sentinel, trying to track down some refugee relatives who had fled persecution in Alinor. Suddenly an explosion of magic in the refugee quarter. Thalmor mages were attacking the Altmer dissidents who were resisting with magic of their own. I ran to the scene with other Legionaries who where stationed there, but the entire quarter was a smoking ruin by the time we arrived. Everyone was dead. Wholesale slaughter. The Dominion, not content with killing dissidents at home, came to Hammerfell to finish the job. We're supposedly at peace now. But I put in to be stationed here to keep an eye on the Thalmor. I've a feeling they're behind this unrest in Skyrim."

[fleet hazel]

Interesting, interesting. Additional context.

Now it makes me think it might be more of acts of terrorism? Maybe?

[raw grail]

Aha

[raw grail]

No, they've been going into provinces they have no control or jurisdiction in to kill whoever they want

See Legate Fasendil on the Night of Green Fire. The way they got control of Elseweyr and Valenwood was basically performing coups. They have a tendency to meddle

[raw grail]

Oh you said it!

[raw grail]

Basically

[fleet hazel]

We got some of that Slow Time going on.

Akatosh pranking us.

But like, I was under the impression that the Dominion's rule over Elyswer was a lot more peaceful.

Because, you know, they brought back the moon like the damn heros they are.

[glacial scarab]

Well last we heard Elsweyr was a client state so there's a difference in control we just don't know what.

[raw grail]

It is kiiiinda, but we hear that not every Khajiit is happy with it (thanks to the caravans) and we're told the actual taking of Elsweyr was via coup, even if it was assisted by the "hero" reputation they got for "solving" the void Nights

In 4E 98, the two moons, Masser and Secunda vanished. Within most of the Empire, this was viewed with trepidation and fear. In Elsweyr it was far worse. Culturally the moons are much more influential to the Khajiit. After two years of the Void Nights, the moons returned. The Thalmor announced that they had restored the moons using previously unknown Dawn Magicks, but it is unclear if they truly restored the moons or just took advantage of foreknowledge that they would return.

Regardless of the truth of the matter, the Khajiit credited the Thalmor as their saviors. Within fifteen years, Imperial influence in Elsweyr had so diminished that the Empire was unable to respond effectively to the coup of 4E 115 which dissolved the Elsweyr Confederacy and recreated the ancient kingdoms of Anequina and Pelletine as client states of the Aldmeri Dominion. Once more the Empire failed to stop the advance of Thamor [sic] power.

[raw grail]

So they used the Void Nights to bolster their reputation and claim themselves heroes, which created an environment ripe for them to launch a coup. Basically the same thing they did in Summerset with the Oblivion Crisis, if you think about it, except in this case we have an MK thing suggesting the Thalmor may have both caused and ended the Void Nights as a eugenics experiment. Maybe. Depending on how you interpret it and whether you believe him...

[fleet hazel]

I mean, on the Khajiit?

[raw grail]

I don't know what you're asking

[fleet hazel]

Silly question. For some reason I confused the Dominion with the Khajit as to who was the subject.

Of the experiment, that is.

[fleet hazel]

Okay so, how are mortal/daedra hybrids possible?

[balmy salmon]

I think it's because the line between Daedric and non-Daedric can sometimes get fuzzy or even be crossed. For example, Meridia was a Magna-Ge, and Malacath was originally the Et'Ada Trinimac.

ESO provided a bunch of instances where the line gets blurred. For example, Demiprinces are the offspring of a Daedra and a lesser being, Soul-Shriven are what happens when Molag Bal replaces a mortal's soul with a Daedric vestige, and Dro'Mathra are what happens when a Khajiit loses its soul to Namira.

It was also revealed in one of the loremaster interviews that Haskill is a vestige who mantled Sheogorath, strongly implied to be a previous attempt to stop the Greymarch.

[raw grail]

Why not?

They're spirits, unbeholden to the rules and laws of mortality. Some mortal creatures can't breed amongst each other, but a spirit, for whom reproduction is much less set in stone? Idk, it seems like it checks out to me

Besides, idk if we actually have an example of a person born from a lesser Daedra and a mortal. Usually it's Princes

Which means they're gods, can shapeshift, etc, which means they have to follow the "rules of reproduction" even less

[fleet hazel]

Like you said, they are spirit things. I find it weird that spirits can just work whoewer they want and then also be able to "interact" with a mortal.

But like, maybe it doesn't work? Mortal + spirit has funky results, look at Belharza and Ummaril.

[nova river]

I am not sure how a daedric/mortal offspring would work. Would they go to oblivion and be reborn in the realm their daedric parent was patroned to? would they go to an afterlife like mortals? Plus there is the repercussions that daedra are fertile to begin with. I always followered the principle of demons from Diablo, where stronger daedra produced weaker daedra just by existing but not necessarily reproduction

I know it could be something seperate but the whole lesser daedra forming from greater daedra always made sense to me, because the idea of scamps doing....things is a disgusting thought

[fleet hazel]

Well, Umaril could just reform in Oblivion like any other Daedra. However, maybe that's because Meridia willed it? He was half Auroran.

[fleet hazel]

That being my perspective. Daedra Lords can either make Daedra themselves and it seems that sometimes they just come into being by themselves.

[fleet hazel]

Can you imagine being a weird Argonian from an egg fertilized by a Clannfear? You just look like this stunted, bizarro dinossaur.

[raw grail]

Many Daedra are entirely separate from Princes, like Atronachs, while others only tend toward specific Princes, like Dremora and Molag Bal, but aren't specifically, uniquely tied to any Prince except by way of matching themes. To use the Dremora example again, Molag and his hierarchies are attractive to Dremora, who organize themselves in strict social hierarchies

We do also have actual examples of Daedra creating new "morphotypes" to put vestiges into, though, such as Xivkyn and Daedric Titans. So perhaps Greater Daedra do create Lesser Daedra, but those Lesser Daedra can end up in other places. I don't think that's how it probably works with every Daedra, tho, since the aforementioned Atronachs each have their own Plane, which bends to their collective will. Infernace is for fire Atronachs, for example

[raw grail]

So yeah this

Idk how unions between lesser Daedra and mortals would go

Again, idek we have examples

Even with demiprinces, it's argued sometimes whether they were actually born as a child to the Prince, or became a child of the Prince in a more metaphysical way

I believe both are probably possible, but I've heard others come away with different opinions

[fleet hazel]

Umaril was half Auroran. Aurorans being magical armour with some kind of light entity inside. MK told me that the armor stays on during sex, however.

[raw grail]

Right, but was he born half-Auroran because of an Auroran parent? I was under the impression he was the child of Meridia herself, a reflection of Mor, son of Kyne

Which tied into MK's Meridia/Kyne duality

[fleet hazel]

My bad. He has a "divine father". Could be some other, unclassified entity. He was a champion of Meridia, however.

But like, whomever or whatever his father may be, he is also descended from her, considering Umaril looks like one of her minions.

Our lad and one of his cousin/brothers.

But like, my guess is that this sort of reproduction is possible probably with magic and not always with direct intercourse. Or maybe if you are in Nirn you have to reproduce like a mortal, and you are in Oblivion you can mutiply by the Daedra's more esoteric means. And like, being Daedra is kinda like a genetic trait which can be diluted with time.

[gaunt bear]

Matthias: I’ve been doing my research into the Giant’s Flame, but my powers are becoming more powerful than anticipated, because I’m beginning to find what can only be described as Fragments/Leftovers of the Middle Dawn! The first fragment I found is called Black Spire Prison, where Cyrodiil, after it extended its reach into the stars, confined the worst of the worst of their criminals. The spirits also mentioned a ‘cursed artifact’ that can send people directly to Oblivion, circumventing everything else, while others speak of a ‘lightning demon’ that’s locked up there because he couldn’t be killed or banished, something that even Mehrunes Dagon was afraid of, and that it’s supposedly cursed by the malice of the doomed inmates. While I don’t know what’s true and what’s “spirit gossip”, for lack of a better term, I do know where it’s located: on an island a mile or two from the very tip of the High Rock Peninsula.

(Let me know what you think.)

[zenith atlas]

Random question:
From a lore standpoint, how do bound weapons inflict damage? Do they have any weight to them, or are they essentially weightless and rely on some sort of magical force to inflict damage? I know they're weightless in actual gameplay, so are we to assume, then, that they deal damage through a magical force? 🤔

[golden valley]

yo guys i nedd help witch quest in skyrim

[topaz dome]

This is the Elder Scrolls lore chat. You'll have better success posting quest-related issues in #skyrim-chat

[zenith atlas]

Upon doing some more research, more than anything, it seems nobody can say for sure how the damage is dealt, but I think most people agree that bound weapons are either weightless or near-weightless ("light as a netch air sac").
So, that begs the question: If bound weapons are weightless, then why are they swung with such force; and how do they deal damage? Are they encountering some resistance between the mortal and daedric realms, and rely on some force from the daedric realm to deal damage? Is there some sort of magical force along the blade's edge/tip that builds up power during the swing and is unleashed when the weapon makes contact? 🤔

[ocean wraith]

My thoughts are that they swing with such force due to how much physical labor the character does, even if it isn't a physical sword built character, just swinging a wood axe would result in such powerful blows

[light crow]

So why exactly did the Thalmor try and destroy the Blades? In oblivion weren't they like the Emperor's body guards and in Skyrim Delphine says they also used to be dragon slayers alongside the dragonborn, why would that be such a big deal to the Thalmor that they hunt them down to destroy even though they have a peace treaty with the rest of the empire? What is it about the blades that the Thalmor just can't abide by and need to destroy them

[fleet hazel]

Blades are big into Talos worship, they are a remnant of the old Septim dynasty and are the Empire's CIA.

Used to be, at least. Now thats the Penitus Occulatus.

[fleet hazel]

Due to how conjuration works, you are just holding an actual sword, axe, dagger or whatever that you stole from some poor Dremora.

[light crow]

Alright that makes sense, I knew they had worked with Tiber Septim but it didn't occur to me that'd probably make them big talos worshipers

[fleet hazel]

Can you imagine being in the middle of a fight and your sword just disappears from your hand mid swing?

[fleet hazel]

They were huge into Talos worship and Akaviri culture.

[light crow]

I did not know that they were more or less an Imperial intelligence agency though so that would also make sense why the Thalmor would want to wipe them out considering it's just a fact everyone is waiting to go to war with each other again

[fleet hazel]

Well, now it seems they are back to basics but I doubt the Thalmor will let them be.

[topaz dome]

Delphine tells us: "We hurt them in the past, and they have long memories."

"Before the Great War, the Blades helped the Empire against the Thalmor. Our Grand Master saw them as the greatest threat to Tamriel. At the time, that was true. Maybe it still is. So we fought them in the shadows, all across Tamriel. We thought we were more than a match for them. We were wrong."

"When I was young, our leaders became obsessed with the Thalmor threat. They believed that if and when we found a Dragonborn, we would need to protect him/her against the Thalmor. Turns out, we fatally underestimated the Thalmor. They smashed us with ease during the Great War.

[light crow]

Oh I see, so they've just hated each other for a while then

And the Elves aren't very forgiving

[plain cosmos]

Nag, the Blades are just historically really, REALLY bad at their jobs.

I doubt the Thalmor really care that much about them.

Applying a particular hatred or malice to the Thalmor's extermination of the Blades ignores just how colossally incompetent the Blades are.

I mean, hell, Delphine doesn't even use an Alias. WHILE IN HIDING.

The Thalmor delivering all those heads was probably more of a 'BTW, keep your idiots out of our borders. If one more chokes on a cherry pit we're not bothering to give them back, well just cremate them ourselves'.

[heady wave]

nah bro, just look at the accomplishments the writers gave them, they reconstructed Numidium for example!

...wait, uh, that's their only accomplishment...?

[plain cosmos]

Wait wait! They also...

Checks notes

Uh... Lost the Totem of Tiber Septim whole failing to learn the location of the Mantela (HOW do you even DO that?)

Failed to anticipate a massive Daedric cult assassinating the Emperor, or even know about the secret passages along their escape route.

Failed to stop multiple Septims from being assassinated.

Failed to stop an attempted assassination of the Duke of Vardenfel...

And that's just off the top of my head.

The most successful thing they pulled off, was identifying a smuggler den.

https://tenor.com/view/clap-friends-ross-geller-david-schwimmer-gif-16832429

[ocean wraith]

Yup pretty much
Wish we could kill Delphine and Esbern, they're good for nothing yet they want you to kill Paarthunax despite him being one of the best and beloved characters

[plain cosmos]

The best thing that could happen to the Blades, is those two freezing to death in Sky Haven while the Dragonborn is off being useful.

[ocean wraith]

Yesssss
It'd be cool if we could completely destroy the blades imo

[topaz dome]

We don't need to destroy them. Those incompetent buffoons will accomplish that all by themselves.

[ocean wraith]

True, but it'd be fun to do

[proven moss]

Here's a prediction: the Blades will be played for humor in the next game (but they'll still probably feature in the main plot)

[fleet hazel]

The Blades suffer from a single problem:

If they were competent we wouldn't have like, 4 out of the 5 main TES games.

Otherwise destroying them deprives the Empire of their best spies and secret agents, get rid of another proponent of Talos worship and another rememnant of the Septims.

It's an extremely symbolic victory and why more fanatical or glory hungry Thalmor would do that is obvious.

[ocean wraith]

I think it'd be interesting if there was a better group of people who matched with the blades butttttt are actually competent and compete against the blades. That's just me tho :p

[heady wave]

It's not even a Blades only issue either; Penatus Oculatus (at least in Skyrim) suffer the same incompetence problem when faced with the DB questline simply because the narrative requires it for the Emperor's assassination to even work.

[fleet hazel]

I don't even mind the Penitus Oculatus being incompetent. Feels on brand for modern era Empire.

[plain cosmos]

The PO was thwarted by a Hero. Theres no winning against that. And they actually DO have successes to their name. Thwarting 2 assassinations attempts against both Titus and Atrebus Mede, stopping an attempted coup, and uncovering a Thalmor sleeper cell in the Imperial City.

So they're already 3 up on the Blades, and the only reason they DON'T successfully destroy the Dark Brotherhood entirely is basically because of divine intervention.

[plain cosmos]

The Septims were only good because you were told they were.

If you actually look at their reign, they were as incompetent as the Blades are.

[gaunt bear]

If you don’t mind me asking this for my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction, how would the Penitus Oculatus react to the Inquisition, since it’s technically an independent organization outside of both Thedas’ and Mundus’ jurisdiction, while it’s overall goal is to “restore order to a world gone mad”.

[glacial scarab]

It's really the nature of RPGs where everyone is incompetent or there wouldn't be a story.

[plain cosmos]

It's an easy thing to write backstory of competence to make the problem seem like it's an exception, rather than the rule.

But we don't get that, because TES's background is mostly superfluous fluff with no actual content

[plain cosmos]

Ultimately, the same way they reacted to the Blades, or the Vigilants.

'So long as you don't get in the way of OUR duties, do whatever you want'.

[gaunt bear]

I was half-hoping that at least some of them would get assigned to the Inquisition, if only to help extend Cyrodiil’s influence in Thedas.

[plain cosmos]

If it benefits the Empire's agenda, or is a suspected potential threat to it, the PO would have agents either join to keep an eye on it, or at a distance monitoring it.

[heady wave]

If you actually look at their reign, they were as incompetent as the Blades are.

I do wish more people realized this. I like how Daggerfall was so on-the-nose about it; while I'm sure there's notable exception, basically every Emperor after Tiber ran the Empire like trash until Uriel VII, who actually cared about keeping it together, but couldn't do anything about it (well, not without forcing the Blades to reconstruct Great Numidium and try to forcibly restore order).

[plain cosmos]

About the only thing the Septims had going for them was Divine Right.

And if that's all you've got? You've got nothing at all.

[heady wave]

well, and if things went better, maybe Martin Septim as Emperor would be a unifying force.

but he became a Dragon God. hardly sporting.

[plain cosmos]

Eh, Martin was also mostly useless.

All he managed to do was translatr a book... That's literally designed to be translated as a recruitment tactic for a cult.

[glacial scarab]

Honestly I'd even question Divine Right due to how TES has botched the Cyrodillic side of Dragonborn.

The games have ended up showing that Cyrodiil doesn't really care for this so called "Dragonborn". Which is a writing issue from TES4 and onwards.

Like the only Imperial I think we see caring about Dragonborn is Varen Aquilarios. But he was looking for legitimacy due to worrying about being seen as a pretender when honestly Dragonborn has nothing to do with pretender but how long your dynasty lasts and their deeds. Alessia, Reman and Tiberius already have actions to theirs.
Like as much as they talk that "Dragonborn" is needed to be "legitimate" on one brings it up for the Mede, Longhouse and Aquilarios dynasties.

[heady wave]

I dunno about that, but that's only because I haven't played Oblivion in forever. I'

I've** been mostly crawling in The Older Scrolls/DOS games lately. I'd need to replay it to get a more concrete opinion but I think I'd hold Martin a step above the rest; I think Oblivion's plot being rushy with trying to piece all elements of the story together in such a short time span doesn't help. The man acts and appears benevolent, is experienced with temptation and evil and risen above it, unbelievably selfless and brave, and willing to lead the Army's defense of Bruma in Septim I's own battle armor. Fate's cruel that we don't get to see more of Martin's character, but I agree with Ocato that his reign probably would've been fantastic.

{{citation needed}}

[plain cosmos]

Eeeh... I also have such a low opinion of Ocato, I have claimed he's an agent for the Thalmor as far back as 2010

So his endorsement of Martin does nothing to reassure me.

[heady wave]

lol i dunno if i'd be angry or happy at Ocato being a thalmor spy

dunno if its b/c i still buy into the "Eternal Champion is Ocato" headcannon or not but that'd just be a suckerpunch

[fleet hazel]

I don't see why Ocato would be a Thalmor spy. Just because the dude is a High Elf? That seems uh... How a Thalmor would think.

[fleet hazel]

That's what most rulers have.

[plain cosmos]

No, it's because his tenure as Chancellor was absolute rubbish, and his decisions during the Oblivion Crisis were objectively bad.

[fleet hazel]

Martin stopped the Oblivion Crisis. Dude sacirificed himself to save Nirn. He's a hero.

[plain cosmos]

Ocato is the reason I abandoned the Canon Line entirely in favour of judging events and characters independently based on what is presented to us. What in-universe sources TELL us is propaganda.

[fleet hazel]

And like, there was nobody else.

[plain cosmos]

Post Ithelia, I have abandoned that position as well, and now just maintain that the writers have no idea what they're doing.

[fleet hazel]

There were no other Septims. If there were other people that could easily sit the Ruby Throne and were Dragonborn, Oblivion's plot would be pointless.

I guess Mankar Camoran could.

[plain cosmos]

Only because the Writers forgot that Highrock is Lousy with Septims..

They entirely forgot how their own family tree has been constructed, and tossed in some Divine Primogeniture that totally erased the entire dynastic lineage outside of the direct descendants of the current Emperor.

[fleet hazel]

I don't really see a problem here. This is still a fantasy game. Doesn't sound particularly contrived for TES standards where the idea of retcons is canon.

[plain cosmos]

Hell, it wasn't even until Skyrim that they managed to stumble into the Septim Dynasty making a lick of sense, by changing what the Dragonborn were.

Because prior to that, only ONE Septim was descended from Tiber.

[fleet hazel]

I guess as long as there is immediate family a Septim can be Dragonborn?

[plain cosmos]

If it's a bloodline, than anyone descended from the source would be Dragonborn. Meaning if Tiber was, his Brother would be as well. Therefore no problems.

[fleet hazel]

It's clearly not that simple.

I don't know exactly what they have going on, however.

[plain cosmos]

Of course, you could also just do the lazy thing and have it be an ad hoc blessing, which is what the Lore Community decided they liked.

Heredity perfectly explains what we see. It simply requires A; knowing how heredity works, and B; accepting that there are likely other Dragonborn around.

It's just not useful 99% of the time, so no one knows about it.

But again, that's more Bethesda stumbling into a solution to the problem they created for themselves. There is no reason to even indicate it was intentional.

Just like with the Blades, or the Septims, or Ocato, or any of a hundred other things, it's all just one worldbuilding deepity. A bunch of slipshod stuff thrown at a wall that doesn't actually hold up to serious scrutiny..

And even if a broken clock is right twice a day, that doesn't mean it's not broken.

[gaunt bear]

Maxwell: They can bet that Corypheus is perhaps the greatest threat to both Thedas and Mundus, not for what he is, but for what he claims. As a word-for-word example of how dangerous he is, here's what he told me at Haven: "Beg that I succeed, for I have seen the Throne of the Gods, and it was empty!"

Matthias: Not only that, he fancies himself a New-Age Talos, and intends to seize the Throne of the Gods for himself. We don't care if he can succeed or not, what matters is that he has to be stopped, or else Maxwell's vision of the dark future he witnessed will come true!

[slate shoal]

Frostfall is funny bc "yeah this child of the people we murdered showed up and told us they froze our homeland forever"

[jagged marten]

No, that's not how it works

worship does not determine power, or the otherway around.

Infinity within infinity

[slate shoal]

I wonder if Auri-El thinks about the Falmer Betrayed

[sharp lantern]

How on earth did you find a comment from 2022? 💀

[heady wave]

necroposting is a pathway to powers some may find unnatural

[gaunt bear]

https://tenor.com/view/pickle-ed-edd-n-eddy-cartoon-funny-derp-gif-19099906

[plain cosmos]

https://tenor.com/view/necromancer-diablo-iii-gif-18396806

[fleet hazel]

I wonder if he thinks at all considering the current state of affairs.

[slate shoal]

probably? I mean you could argue since he didn't defend his own priests he might be messed up thanks to those meddling Imperials

elder scrolls be like: elves exist, humans show up, ruin everything with their idiocy, die and leave

[fleet hazel]

Mer history:

Everything was great until the humans showed up, we preemptively tried to strike them down/turn them into a non-citizen class of people and they got help from the gods to absolutely decimate us in a one sided landslide victory that ruined our race and culture forever.

[plain cosmos]

Mer History:

Everything was great until the Humans showed up. They harassed us and invaded us, and we tried to push them out, but they commited genocide and then cried about being the REAL victims.

I could actually draw some parallels between TES humans and real world religions if I wanted to be spicy, but I won't.

[glacial scarab]

Nirn History:

Man those Nedes are great for slaving and sacrificing - Atmorans, Yokudans and Elves.. probably.

[plain cosmos]

Assuming the Nedes were in fact native to Tamriel, and not the first waves from Atmora.

What we do know for sure, is whenever Nedes moved into an area (Wrothgsr, Morrowind, Blackmarsh) the first thing they tried to do was drive out or exterminate the local population.

So they're likely not innocent either.

[glacial scarab]

Assuming it isn't propaganda designed so the Atmorans wouldn't wipe out the Nedes like they did the Falmer.
Especially when Alessia fabricated her religion to put an Elven god on top.

[plain cosmos]

Well, all of that comes from non-Atmoran sources. The Stone Orcs, Chimer, and Argonians.

Atmoran sources tend to paint the Nedes are the poor slaves of the evil Elves and Beastfolk

[fleet hazel]

Well, the elven god was really keen on helping her over his own people.

[brisk perch]

Nedes are very early Dawn Era on Tamriel, based on evidence on the Druids of Galen and the Kothringi, at least.

[plain cosmos]

Considering the very nature of 'Early Dawn Era' is borderline nonsensical it's self... I think you mean Early Merethic.

[brisk perch]

Nah, it was specifically Dawn Era, and there are orders of events in the Dawn Era, but the order is literally up to interpretation since all of it pretty much happened at once.

[plain cosmos]

Right, another reason to add to why I stopped caring about the lore in this series. Gotcha.

[brisk perch]

Posting extensively here shows otherwise. You can lie to yourself or others about not caring, but posting or even viewing the channel at all means one still cares.

[lone saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/hmm-sus-suspicious-stare-eyes-on-you-gif-7197827967440963024

[plain cosmos]

Its more a cathartic exercise in the opportunity to make fun of the absurd mediocrity of it, and recoup a little enjoyment form the years I put into trying to enjoy it.

Combined with the product of poor impulse control when my fat fingers misclick between Off Topic, and TES General

[fleet hazel]

Let me guess, someone stole your sweetroll?

[plain cosmos]

In fact, they went stale because I'm on a diet.

I'd rather someone HAD stolen them. I hate wasting food

[plain cosmos]

@brisk perch makes a good point though. I shouldn't let my hostility to the setting ruin anyone else's fun, no matter how much I enjoy dumping on it.

So I'll just mute the channel and hide it entirely.

[nova river]

no terical, educate me!!!!

teach me!

or I will eat you in a not so fun way

[gaunt bear]

Me: * forces the Hannibal Lecter mask on ya * Aw Shaddup!

[balmy salmon]

Skyrim did away with the notion that Akatosh is nothing but a slave rebellion's retelling of a solely elven deity.

The fact that the dragons view him as their creator- and the existence of Dragonborn outside the Imperial dynasties- are pretty big lore bombshells.

[balmy salmon]

Considering that the Nords believed for the longest time that Akatosh is Alduin, the Nords could potentially have found worship of Akatosh to be more alarming than worship of Auriel.

[slate shoal]

all I know is we turnt they old homeland into a popsicle and they deserved it

[raw grail]

Well... Dragons using Akatosh as a name is just a translation thing. They'll also use Alkosh when it's more culturally relevant. "Akatosh" has elven origins still: one of Auri-El's titles is "the Aka-Tosh"

Still, the Aldudagga, Ald Son of Ald, and Skyrim do all make it clear the Time Dragon is present in Nordic religion, not just as Alduin, but as his father as well. Father Time / Baby New Year style

I wonder how present the father Time Dragon was in Nordic religion around the time of the rebellion

[tropic wolf]

I pray the writing is good in the next game. Do we know if the lore folks from past games are with the company anymore?

[topaz dome]

I'd say that Bethesda Game Studios has retained an unusually large number of employees (at least in comparison to some other studios). Some of the devs have been there since the 90's.

That said, this is a topic better suited to #elder-scrolls-general-chat

[slate shoal]

"They told him that the seeds had been stolen by one of the Falmer (for they are the servants of the Adversary), and this Falmer was hiding them deep in the forest, so that none would ever find them." I wonder if they considered this when making snow elves so devoted to Auri El

also reading atmoran and Nord text about snow elves kinda makes me want to kill nords

well not literally but like how can they have so much hatred for them :( with Wulfric's story it's just ysgramor coming off racist to me

"Know only our mercy and the radiance of our affection, which unbinds your bones to the earth before, and sets your final path to the music of your new eternity." I wonder if the dwemer unbound the Falmer from the earth bones, and if that's part of why they're so messed up lately, and if it could be reversed

[slate shoal]

reading lore and it's just "racist imperials and nords try to take more land from elves"

"The Wild Hunt (a bestial horde of monstrously transformed Bosmer) kills King Borgas of Winterhold, the ruler of Skyrim and last direct descendant of Ysgramor. " nvm I love Bosmer

snow elves don't really exist for that long of a time period, really only around the size of the direnni

[balmy salmon]

In the case of Aevar Stone-Singer, there's arguably some ambiguity as to whether the "Falmer" in the story were Snow Elves or Rieklings. When you re-enact his deeds in TES III, the Rieklings play the role that the Falmer did in the original story, and at the time it was unclear in-universe as to whether the Rieklings were in fact Falmer, with even the Skaal, who recorded Aevar's story, being unsure whether it's true or not.

[slate shoal]

damn Bosmer are actually dope as cronk reading their creation

[slate shoal]

"[¥R: Uncle, I saw signs that might be Falmer boundary-runes, but nothing sure. If any survive, they are wary and withdrawn.]" heehee yay

[glacial scarab]

I have to wonder if Governors are retconned after TES4 changed Cyrodiil and in turn the Empire.

With the hereditary positions of Counts and then TES5s Jarls completely ignoring Provincial Governors entirely.

TES5 has a mention of a Governor but it's from Ralof at his most unreliable where he straight up gives outdated information that's ignored by the game with the intro quest.

Ralof: "Hey, you. You're finally awake. You were trying to cross the border, right? Walked right into that Imperial ambush, same as us, and that thief over there."

Player is not in an ambush and the Stormcloaks were caught near Darkwater Crossing

Ralof: "Look at him. General Tullius the Military Governor.

No one ever refers to Tullius as a Governor other then Ralof in the intro quest. Even in the cut version of the old intro Tullius refers to his positon as General (around 2009 when you escaped with a civil war faction leader).

General Tullius: "I will put an end to this rebellion here and now, rightfully in my position as Legion General."

[proven moss]

Governors are very much still a thing. They are always military governors, like Admiral Richton. It's basically just the imposition of military rule.

Usually the Empire rules through local nobility who owe allegiance to the emperor, but in times of turmoil military governors rule on the Empire's behalf directly

Tulius outranks Elisef for example

[glacial scarab]

Richton was a Provisional Governor but this was before TES4 where everything is hereditary and Governors are barely a thing if they exist anymore.

As far as TES5 is concerned Tullius is nothing more then a General.

[proven moss]

You just cited a line from Skyrim calling him military governor

[glacial scarab]

Which annoyingly is the only line of it (annoying in the sense I've been trying to find other mentions but found nothing). Which is the point. It comes from Ralof during the intro where Ralof himself gives outdated information to the game for some reason (I have no idea why it's him but I have to assume they missed it or ran out of time).

The only other mention of a Governor (outside of old books returning) I can find for the TES5 era is Modiphius wargaming for TES which calls General Tullius an Imperial Governor even then the Governor part is an afterthought. Everything else about Tullius in TES5 is just General and never Governor even when you're outside of military areas. I've even looked at the Prima guide and I couldn't find anything on Tullius' part.

GENERAL TULLIUS is a central lynchpin and rallying point for the legion,
1 x General Tullius, Imperial Governor
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/650694631482458133/1343985453153386567/image.png?ex=67bf437e&is=67bdf1fe&hm=27999ee0c213c5a5f7a202c34fe5227304aa7d8d2fa85eae4be33839d9ab6d1e&

[proven moss]

Well, sometimes all we get is a single reference. It's kinda our lot in life as lore fanatics. 🤷
OOG, he is labeled as military governor in the Skyrim tabletop war game
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Call_to_Arms:Models

You can be both a general and a military governor at the same time, so it's not really contradictory

[glacial scarab]

Oh I know it's the issue of how the game never uses it outside of Ralof who has its own issues of using ourdated information.

Even when you're around Solitudes court they only say General when it would be the best time for Governor to be used.

I don't even know where to date their use of Military Governor since the game doesn't use it.

The Intro where you escape with Tullius and Hadvar it doesn't come up and the Elenwen conversation it never comes up.

It comes off as cut content but they forgot to change the line or remove it.

[balmy salmon]

If I recall, Cyrodiil and Skyrim were the Septim Empire's founding provinces, so that might be why they've kept their traditional power structures (even if the High King is typically an Imperial puppet).

[glacial scarab]

Well the founding part would really be Falkreath. The Tiber war had him fighting everything else.

Had to unify Cyrodiil as a General and then fighting over Skyrim and High Rock as Emperor before the fighting over Hammerfell which at the point was described as the bloodiest fight of the war at the time.

"Hammerfell has been the bloodiest invasion of current record, and by comparison Skyrim's occupation seems like a ballet."

[light crow]

How long did it take the other races to learn that the Dwemer had vanished and how did they react to it? For an entire race to seemingly vanish without a single trace must have been a really big deal even if you rarely even interacted or saw the race in question

Did anyone try and figure out what happened when they realized?

[slate shoal]

I'm excited to see what we learn about House Sadras in TES6

[native ether]

What game first introduced snow elves into the lore?

I can't find anything about it online

[heady wave]

II: Daggerfall, King Edward, Book X

[native ether]

Dammit I lost an argument

[heady wave]

let me read through it quickly to confirm. otherwise it would've been III: Bloodmoon, Aevar Stone-Singer makes mention of "Falmer" for the first time.

yeah, King Edward mentions them first as "Ice Elves." Stone-Singer is the first use of Falmer though.

[native ether]

Thanks

[heady wave]

np, sorry about the argument

[raw grail]

Being a remnant of cut content doesn't make something incorrect (assuming that speculation is even accurate here, which is not a given). Granite Hill was cut, and has a mere 1 or 2 refs in the game, but that doesn't mean it just... Doesn't exist, or that the dialogue saying it exists is inaccurate

[raw grail]

Ngl I thought it was PGE1. I didn't know about King Edward mentioning them tho

PGE1, which released with Redguard, would have been the first expansion on them, tho, regardless

Snow Elves
Nords attribute almost any misfortune or disaster to the machinations of the Falmer, or Snow Elves, be it crop failure, missing sheep, or a traveler lost crossing a high pass. These mythical beings are popularly believed to be the descendants of the original Elven population, and are said to reside in the remote mountain fastnesses that cover most of Skyrim. However, there is no tangible evidence that this Elven community survives outside the imaginations of superstitious villagers.[YR 7]

[glacial scarab]

It's the issue of cut content. Like Sifnar Ironkettle was a Stormcloak who possibly lead soldiers to Fort Amol to fight a Dragon at least to mirror the Imperial one who had Captain Metilius lead soldiers to Hraggstad.

The messy state of Empire writing really doesn't help things.

[brisk perch]

Sometimes things do not make it into the version that we can play, but can still exist in-universe. Like towns that can exist but we don't go there because it would be a nightmare to fill each with something unique enough to do in a game we don't have a reason to for our story.

[heady wave]

Still sad Shalidor's Fortress of Ice wasn't in Skyrim 😔

[glacial scarab]

Oh I know. Just Ralof's lines are rather old and we really have no idea if the Empire even has Governors in this version of canon given the changes with TES4 onwards.

[slate shoal]

atmorans grrr

[gaunt bear]

@slate shoal @raw grail Knock it off, both of you!

[raw grail]

whaaa

[gaunt bear]

@raw grail this kind of thing. Knock it off.

[raw grail]

i didn't do it so

[gaunt bear]

Matthias: Ever since the Breach opened, I’ve found that my own powers as Dragonborn have been increasing, including some new powers I didn’t know I had, including dreaming with even greater precision than a mage from Thedas, thereby finding long-lost information. When looking into this, I found out this about the Dragon War (this is for you, Falk):

During the Dragon War, Alduin, the Great Black Dragon, used the Thu’um to rip a hole into Thedas and assault the ancient elves (the ancestors of the Dalish) with his war, causing the Dragon War to, quite literally spill over into Thedas. This eventually causing what the spirits of the Fade called the First War Against the Chaos, because the destruction in both Thedas and Mundus was so great, all sense of order was falling to pieces.

Eventually, while the tongues did battle at the Throat of the World, and the Last Alliance fought in the Battle of Bromunjaar, the High Priests of the Dalish Gods gathered at what is now Skyhold and “cast their seal to hold back the sky”. While it may seem impressive, said seal was actually meant to cut the Dovah (and Alduin in particular) from their quasi-divine powers (which was not just limited to using the Thu’um to “blot out the sky and flood the land).

[slate shoal]

he didn't do anything lol I'm just anti falmer genocide

[gaunt bear]

Matthias: Ever since then, the Seal of the Ancient Elves has been slowly deteriorating (you’re going to have to think in hundreds of thousands of years for the gauge of deterioration), but has been reinforced several times. The first time it was reinforced was during St. Alessia’s time, and the most recent was from Martin’s sacrifice.

Said seal was also breached, but the number of times can easily be counted on one hand. The largest Breach (surpassing even the most recent one) happened during the Middle Dawn, and that was the force that led to the swift toppling of Cyrodiil’s ‘Empire of Stars’, as the spirits called it.

[light crow]

Falmer as in the gollumns in the Dwemer ruins or Falmer as in the original snow elves

I ask just because I wonder if you think there's some way the Falmer could be redeemed or saved from being basically withered bug wearing goblin people

[gaunt bear]

Matthias: I can answer that. I’ve been looking into this in the Fade (while dreaming) and I got a memory of a pool of some… liquid energy… for lack of a better term. But when I got closer to take a look at it, I woke up. I’m pretty sure that that substance is key to restoring the Falmer into the Snow Elves they once were. I’ll let you know if I find out more about it.

[slate shoal]

I'm anti snow elf genocide

[slate shoal]

larp

[slate shoal]

possibly, they'll either regain intelligence like Gelebor suspects or someone will rebind them to the earthbones

[gaunt bear]

I don’t do LARP very often, due to real life, but I primarily do it to have fun and have laughs.

[light crow]

It seems like either a way to restore them has to be found or at least find a way to establish peace, or wipe them out if they're not able to become anything more than what they are now because in Skyrim it seems to hint that they're increasingly aggressive and coordinated in attacking the surface with more regularity, which sounds ominous

Would kinda suck if the Falmer just started pouring out of Dwemer ruins and attacking everything

[slate shoal]

nah don't wipe em out

I'd give them Skyrim personally

[light crow]

I can't say I would, I wouldn't really want to wipe them out since it's not really their fault they turned out that way but it's to a point, if they can't be reformed in anyway or at least be left in blackreach then I just see them as a danger to people I don't really think are guilty

Like Ysgramor was guilty, but a few thousand years later people in Whiterun are too far removed from the events and it's their home now more than anyone elses

I do hope though that somehow they make it so the snow elves are brought back as a race in some way though

[clever goblet]

Random enclave in the mountains re-emerge

[light crow]

Honestly, I kinda wish we could communicate with the devolves ones or redeem them specifically, because they're the ones I REALLY feel bad for, like nobody is surprised that Ysgramor slaughtered them as awful as it is, but the Dwemer seemed to take us as a competition of who could make the Snow Elves suffer the most and they were supposed to be protecting the snow elves, they would have been better off taking their chances above ground

Some hidden enclave of snow elves would probably be more likely though, would still want justice for the betrayed though

[slate shoal]

oh I meant that jokingly lol

[slate shoal]

Snow Elves probably hold more hate in their hearts for the Dwemer than the Atmorans I think

[nova river]

I would think so

atleast the atmorans simply killed you, where the dwemer tortured and blinded them totally

[night trellis]

Too bad they didn't finish the job with the demon worshipping, child sacrificing forsworn

[nova river]

hey look I think the stormcloaks should let the forsworn worship whatever they want. They demand the same thing with talos so what makes the stormcloaks different from the forsworn, other then the hagraven snuggling?

[nova river]

is hagraven snuggling a crime?!

[clever goblet]

Don’t think so, but I don’t know any sane mortal who would want to do that

[gaunt bear]

@nova river @clever goblet ||(Me: I included this part in my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction because I think it would be funny)|| Maxwell: Well, people might consider it if said ‘hagravens’ were brought to Skyhold first. Because of the innate magic of Skyhold (its Dalish elven name means where the sky was kept/held back), any ‘hagravens’ that come there undergo what can only be described as ‘||spontaneous beautification||’: they become well-muscled (with fat/curves in all the right places) ‘wild beauties’, with just enough raven features to be more exotic/alluring.

[nova river]

I dont know how to feel about that...and that worries me.

[nova river]

technically you do when drunk so....

what kind of booze can make a hagraven beautiful

[signal raptor]

Have you ever done the A Night To Remember quest? 😅

[gaunt bear]

Me: The booze is ||hilarity||.

Maxwell: It has to do with the ancient magic that permeates Skyhold.

Matthias: Even with my enhanced Dovahkiin abilities, I still haven’t found an answer. Krosis.

[gaunt bear]

I remember that. It was Sam Guevene’s special brew (did I get his last name right?).

[nova river]

leave it to the god of parties and revelry to make a great drink

Khajiit thinks this needs more moon sugar

[nova river]

I have actually, killing the giant at level 14 sucks so much ass

*swears had visited the atmosphere several times for that goat

and I always managed to get the persuasion check for ysolda so I never had to get that wedding ring from my wife

course one of the things I do in most runs is speed run speech to 50

it's why khajiit is so persuasive, because khajiit is good salesman

[nova river]

so I got a couple of daedric princes I love

the first and foremost is probably azura

a god that loves you and tries to guide you to better paths is a good god in my regard

my second favorite daedric prince is Hircine. I particularly like hircine because he is a fair god most of the time. He doesnt care for vanity or worship, just the hunt, and when the hunter is too favored for one side or another, then he tips the scales. There are so many daedric princes which care more about victory, then the skill and effort that goes into the event. Clavicus vile will try and out wager you, molag bal treats you as a slave but hircine will give you the chance to stand against him and if you simply stand your ground, you can come out of it without too much problem

[slate shoal]

bretons is they had good lore

[slate shoal]

mhm! she doesn't want you to have fake love for her, she wants it to be real and truly from you

[nova river]

yea I can see that

[night trellis]

Curious, how come Bretons got pointy ears in games like TES online but regular ones in TESV?

[nova river]

to be fair in eso the elven features are more prominant

where in skyrim, bretons are more human then elven in those games

gotta remember, bretons are half elves and alot of the early breton court emphasized those elven features for those of high station

imperials are actually the closest to nedic humans we get in the elder scrolls games, with redguards being yokudans and nords being atmorans and bretons being a mix of man and mer

[agile herald]

I'm quite fond of Peryite and Meridia

[nova river]

meridia is good and peryite's position makes sense though I think diseases shouldnt exist.

[agile herald]

I find Peryite the most intriguing of the daedra considering his relation to Akatosh and his rankings amongst the daedra themselves

[night trellis]

It would be interesting to see Tsaesci as a race. Shame we may never see content set around Akaviri

[abstract ledge]

Same reason no antlers for bosmer in tes v despite having antler nubs in morrowind, they didnt offer it in-game but doesn’t mean it wouldn’t exist in-lore

[unkempt tide]

Hi folks, let's please try to avoid comparisons to sensitive real world topics here. It's not appropriate for the server

[upper field]

Man I hope ES6 expands on Breton lore. I know ESO sort of did for one season.

[narrow solar]

Longshot question. Anyone know if there were generic Xivilai in Battlespire? Or was Moath the only one?

[proven moss]

Moath is the only one

At least the only one called Xivilai

Some Daedra Lords and Daedra Counts could theoretically represent Xivilai, but there is no real indication other than their titles

[narrow solar]

Thank you

[abstract ledge]

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Breton def. uesp's race page could use more additions

i documented as much breton lore as i can. any and all breton lores will be documented by me if tes 6 expands on them a lot

[narrow solar]

Does anyone know if there’s a written epilogue to Skyrim? Like the source, “Afterward,” for Fallout 3? I could swear I’ve seen one before, but I can’t find it anywhere.

[brisk perch]

To my knowledge there is none, at least not like a slideshow and credits version. You do usually get to talk to NPCs after completing the main, dawnguard, dragonborn storylines but not a long term explanation of what happens in the future.

[slate shoal]

"hey dragonborn I'm just gonna keep chilling here, I can make you some arrows though"

[upper field]

Yeah we don't really know what happens to the Dragonborn after the final DLC. It just...stops right there.

I'm sure ES6 will have something pointing to what happens, or they'll be lost to history.

Remind me, what heroes do we know about what happened? I know the Nerevarine went on an expedition to Akivir and hasn't been seen since, while the Champion of Cyrodiil mantled into the new Sheogorath.

[raw grail]

Honestly the way Shivering Isles is laid out, it's not necessarily the Champion of Cyrodiil

But we don't really have much on the others I don't think. The Agent dies in one ending that never actually occurs in-game iirc, I don't recall anything about the Eternal Champion, and obviously the Vestige doesn't have any lore on that front either

[upper field]

Really? Huh.
Yeah I can understand the Vestige not having anything yet since ESO isn't done.

[brisk perch]

Depending on our interpretation of what happened with the latest released storyline... ||we may or may not become the new Ithelia by being the only entity that remembers them other than Hermaeus Mora, and how we may be doomed to be forgotten otherwise||

[signal warren]

The chance that isnt the champion of cyrodiil is very smart since the goal is to mantel sheogorath to prevent the greymarch and jyggalag also calls you sheogorath at the end iirc

[hollow hollow]

I was planning on playing Skyrim again and I wanted your opinions of all the creations and the lore friendly ones besides homes/armors
Thanks

[heady wave]

The Agent doesn't die, that's a misinterpretation of the game's events. Nulfaga teleports him back to Shedungent - getting stomped by Great Numidium is a cut concept, and the Totem thinks the Agent is an inferior to Royalty™️ and can't wield Numidium anyway (disregarding how the rules change, like, twice[?] during the storyline). Nulfaga invokes the power of the Storytelling McGuffin™️ that gives her the power to predict the future, and tells you what's going to happen, that's how the endings occur in the cutscenes.

Well... If you're following the idea "every conceivable possibility happens" then yeah at some point in the chaos, maybe he dies - Blades lost contact with most of their Agents at the time, maybe there was some grand conspiracy where rulers started killing suspected Agents during the Warp. But the Dragon Break as it stands currently only follows what would happen if any of the applicable Royalty of the Bay got the Totem, note how nothing else happens past that (The Blades' Agents disappearing correlates with any of the Bay Kings controlling Numidium to expel the Empire). The Player's character just disappears. Same with the Eternal Champion unfortunately.

[heady wave]

I've only gotten to play a few for wiki images. The player housings are unique and I've not had many complaints about the quest mods. I was severely disappointed with Saints and Seducers though.

[gaunt bear]

I’ve got some things from my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction for both the champion of Daggerfall and Eternal Champion:

Eternal Champion: Due to help from the Grey Wardens, the Staff of Chaos didn’t immediately return to Oblivion. But when the Grey Wardens were on their way to ask Queen Barenziah for permission to use the Staff against the Third Blight (||https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Third_Blight||), the Darkspawn attacked Mournhold.

Eventually, the Staff’s full power was unleashed against the Archdemon, but the magical backlash ended up blasting the Eternal Champion to dust and shattering the Staff of Chaos back into its component fragments. As to why that is, I don’t want to spoil it for you, but I will say that Corypheus is interested in such an artifact.

——

[heady wave]

Sounds interesting. You've done more with the character's aftermath than Bethesda has so far - I know it's fanfic, but just be wary about invoking the Staff of Chaos. IIRC Ria's message doesn't play due to a scripting error but it destroyed itself at the end of Arena, it didn't banish itself to Oblivion.

Dunno what Dragon Age is though, maybe I should look into it.

[gaunt bear]

The Hero of Daggerfall: In return for their Aid, the Hero of Daggerfall gave the Totem of Tiber Septim and the Mantella to use in the Fourth Blight (||https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Fourth_Blight||). The end result leads to several famous artworks of the Anumidium (did I spell that right?) swinging the Archdemon around by the neck and slamming it into the ground several times, but the Hero was lost during the final battle, and the Warp in the West caused the Anumidium to vanish, poof! But their loss was not in vain, for the Archdemon was weakened enough for the Grey Wardens to finish it off.

[gaunt bear]

I included some censored links for your convenience.

[gaunt bear]

As for why the Staff was shattered, simple: the Eternal Champion didn’t invoke it all the way.

Also, I’ve got something for ESO, if you’d like to know:

Due to what can only be called a quirk of fate, the Vestige ended up getting sent to Thedas, when Andraste was still alive. At first having trouble believing him, Andraste decided to help him when it was revealed that Molag was attempting to pull a First-Blight-weakened Thedas into Coldharbour. (||https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/First_Blight||).

[gaunt bear]

@heady wave I’ve got something that I think is funny, and somewhat lore-friendly, so I’d like to share with you and others:

While exploring ruins dedicated to the Dragon Cult, Matthias (my Dragonborn) along with Lucien and Inigo, as well as Maxwell (My Inquisitor) and his companions, take a tumble through time all the way back to the Dragon War. While in the past, they meet a mad Dwemer Mage-scientist who’s convinced that Alteration magic can be used for the purposeful reshaping of life, but this led to him being ostracized, and ultimately exiled from his people (as to why that was, I dunno).

He ultimately gets picked up by the Dragon Cult who want him to build a Man-Mer-Demon-Daedra hybrid army for Alduin, but he considers it (and the Dragon Cult) abhorrent, but didn’t turn it down because they were providing plenty of research materials for him.

Max and Matthias are ultimately able to create a diversion, kill the Dragon Priest in charge of the project, and escape back to the Present. During the Diversion, the Dwemer Mage-Scientist copies his knowledge to a Dwemer Lexicon for the Inquisition, and willingly surrenders himself and his knowledge to Herma-Mora to keep it out of ‘the wrong hands’.

And here’s the funny part: When studying the Lexicon, one of the mages (maybe Briala, maybe J’zargo, since the College of Winterhold has a portal linked to Skyhold (as a part of the plot of my story) accidentally turns a male Orlesian Noble into a female Argonian Priestess, much to the amusement of the Hist (but why that is, nobody, not even the Saxleel, knows).

[narrow solar]

Question. Are the creatures of the Soul Cairn (Bonemen, Mistmen, Wrathmen, Keepers) considered to be Daedra?

[proven moss]

No, they're undead

[unkempt tide]

Hi, just as a reminder that as per rules: while AI "artwork" is often very interesting, it is not original artwork or artwork created by a person. Please refrain from sharing this sort of content.

[jagged marten]

ehhh- depends on how you view it

I'd argue they're more daedra than undead at this point

[proven moss]

What would be your argument that they're daedra?

[slate shoal]

probably undead servants to the ideal masters in the same way you can find vampires in coldharbour

[lyric bronze]

Do the Altmeri nobility use Rapiers? Or would they prefer standard swords

[slate shoal]

magic

or check ESO and see what they have

[light crow]

So I noticed that all the Dwemer centurions I've killed have carried Daedric arrows, why? I don't think they can shoot arrows can they? And why Daedric? I thought the Dwemer didn't really care about Daedra that much, it could be nothing but it seems kind of out of place and deliberate

Like I thought the Dwemer had a sort of "We can do it better with our sciences" when it came to the Daedra and the Aedra and any other sort of gods or magical beings

[robust trout]

Some loot is randomised and leveled, fwiw

[glacial scarab]

Yeah that's just random loot from leveled lists

[light crow]

Ok it had just struck me as very odd that they even had arrows and that they were Daedric arrows

[ocean wraith]

Yeah, loot is scripted to be randomly generated as both Lich and Fen said :p

[light crow]

Yeah fair enough, that didn't occur to me because it was always Daedric arrows so I thought it was on purpose but I also forgot I'm level 87

[tropic tulip]

why Molag Bal hot?

[proven moss]

Have something more interesting to say?

[ocean wraith]

New quote for ya:

[brisk perch]

So, are the Chimer descended from Altmer and Saxlheel?

[clever goblet]

I’m pretty sure the chimer became their own thing when the Velothi exodus from the summerset isles occurred, so they for sure have altmeri roots
Though I don’t think the argonians have anything to do with their racial origins

[slate shoal]

Veloth lead some Altmer to Resdayn (Morrowind) to follow his faith freely

the lizards have no influence on that lol

[slate shoal]

they became the chimer on the way to Resdayn, because Boethiah used cunning to do stuff and whatever you believe happened, created the Orsimer and Chimer

[abstract ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/vivec-elder-scrolls-my-reaction-to-that-information-gif-25764345

[tropic tulip]

Why mannimarco hot

[thorny dagger]

Why Morokei hot

Why Adoring Fan hot

Why Goblin Skirmisher hot

[gaunt bear]

If you want to know what happened to Vivec after the Vvardenfell Crisis, at least in my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction, it’s this:

During the Vvardenfell Crisis, the Fifth Blight (||https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Fifth_Blight||), quite literally, spilled over into Morrowind, leading to a few changes:

• House Telvanni began doing experiments with the Blight, causing the Assasinate the Telvanni Councilors mission to become the Sanitize the Blighted Outbreak mission.

• Master Neloth challenged Uldred to a formal Mages’ Duel, and thoroughly whooped Uldred’s behind, even though Uldred was possessed by a demon. (Veloth: That’s what you get for challenging a Master Wizard of House Telvanni.)

And, most importantly:

• After the Heart of Lorkhan was destroyed and Dagoth Ur defeated, Vivec (partly because his role in Nerevar’s Death was part of a Dragon Break) was initiated into the Grey Wardens. I don’t want to spoil too much, but I will say that ||Vivec will not live long after the Siege of Adamant Fortress||.

[tropic tulip]

Real

[unkempt tide]

https://tenor.com/view/siren-cat-gif-26035467

[gaunt bear]

Rerorerorero!

[toxic canopy]

Best daedric prince(s) to serve lore wise?

[glacial scarab]

Probably Azura. She's the most chill compared to the others.

[heady wave]

Yeah probably Azura. If the Invocation of Azura is anything to go off of at least. If you look at the Worshiper in Daggerfall though, being constantly in love/a virtual slave to Azura doesn't exactly sound fun.

(well depends on your definition of fun at least but)

[tropic tulip]

Molag Bal bc hot and he turns you into hot vampire

[robust lintel]

I have this insatiable desire to play with Molag in the way I do with all my lil toys 😇 https://i.gifer.com/8hml.gif

[toxic canopy]

🌚

[tropic tulip]

:))))

[unkempt tide]

Hi folks, please keep in mind that the server is available to those aged 13 and over and also to refrain from discussing sensitive topics. Thank you

[abstract ledge]

Considering how the first vampire and the daughters of coldharbour are made, vampire’s origins are horrific

[robust lintel]

I think they'll prefer coldharbour.. 😁
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fewnex2jlrew11.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D67ed6dcc73d5459ef22d6d243b451899cdc7970d

[uncut hatch]

Howdy yall

[robust lintel]

Howdy ho bro

[dire ermine]

If I had to choose I'd say, in this order:

• Meridia. All she wants you to do is kill the undead.
• Hircine. He's just a very chill dude who likes hunting. His plane of Oblivion isn't all that bad either, especially if you're a werewolf.
• Azura. Uhhh I forgor 💀

[abstract ledge]

Meridia sounds cool as long as she does not strip you of your free will

[upper field]

Ironically enough, Malacath feels like the least evil Daedric Prince. He truly cares for his followers and merely wishes for them to be the Orcs he wants them to be.

[unkempt tide]

Why worship a Daedric prince when you can fish

[upper field]

True dat!

[abstract ledge]

Hircine has a daedra lord of fishing

Woulda been cool if they appeared somewhere

[toxic canopy]

Fishing technically is hunting..

[unkempt tide]

Hircine it is

[proven moss]

There is definitely a fishing aspect to Hircine. Just one that hasn't really been explored yet (fishing has never been a mechanic outside of awesome mods).

...unless by fishing you mean killing slaughterfish with swords

[robust lintel]

Crossing my fingers for that deep sea fishing.. 🐳

I want a pet sea serpent as protector of some island village or kingdom we build

Everytime I see a hunter fishing in Skyrim, I think of LouLou now 😄

I hope the mermaids are nice.. I feel like even a small group of them would be deadly if they're not.. probably vicious illusion magic.

[brisk perch]

I enjoy fishing in the seas of Apocrypha, though