elder-scrolls-general-chat

[feral viper]

And with that in mind, from Skyrim to FO4 to Starfield, Bethesda has shown notable improvements in story structure, use of narrative tools, characterisation, etc.

Which is a good sign for TES6.

Assuming that trend continues, it will probably be their best executed story to date.

[nimble pond]

@feral viper For example, you'd probably serve best in a historian position to help with design of culture and the various races.

[feral viper]

That's where my skills would be best served, but I've learned that my preferences are definitely not the norm. So I'd probably be more of a problem than anything.

Which now that I think of it, may be a bit of a red flag for my current side hustle...

But burn that bridge down when I come to it.

[nimble pond]

Slightly tweaking that history with a little bit of fantasy and fiction twist and you'd be just fine.

[feral viper]

Well, it's a sci-fi project born out of an abandoned Starfield mod project, so no Fantasy to be had.

The few of us who didn't quit in rage over the delays to modding tools and mediocre support from Bethesda pivoted to our own thing.

Which may or may not ever see the light of day. But I'm having fun while we continue anyway.

[nimble pond]

Huh? Oh, you got your own game? Nice. Well, Sci-fi does have fiction in it's name, lol. So you should be able to work with that, fiction or fantasy.

[feral viper]

We will see what it becomes, if anything.

But, back on topic.

Starfield does show a lot of actual improvements from Bethesda, showing that they ARE refining and improving their craft.

Which is a good sign for TES6 in at least some ways.

[mystic meadow]

Well apparently not enough ,because Starfield is big flop ...Improvments are present ,yes ,but Creation Engine still needs further improvments .

Maybe Creation Engine for TES6 will call "Creation Engine 3 ",with many more Bugfixes and improvments on top

[pulsar root]

...The Engine wasn't the problem.

[nimble pond]

Wild that Skyrim has sold 60 million copies worldwide.

[glad shadow]

I dont know, it's a big game

[nimble pond]

And the Oblivion remaster has sold more copies of Oblivion than the original did in it's first 15 months! I think over the years, ESO and BGS's TES mobile games may have helped increase the TES fan base. Same possibly could be said for the Fallout base after it's Mobile game and TV series.

[slow loom]

I cannot in good faith recommend Starfield to people I know and I think that pretty much says everything. It's a Bethesda game in name alone. It's pretty graphics over just about everything else.

The quests and game has no loop. Some quests make you fly from point to point with no engaging content besides endlessly talking to npcs. Some stories are more interesting than others but they don't hold a candle to what came before it. There are rare moments where it comes together but those are so few and far between. The main story is one massive fetch quest of repeating content.

It's not all bad but not enough good to recommend it unless you are a massive scifi fan who is dying for something set in space.

[pulsar root]

Nostalgia is powerful, positives and negatives.

[slow loom]

Using mobile games as a reason why a game became popular is something else. "Do you guys not have phones?"

[nimble pond]

I never stated it made them "popular." I'm just referring to the spread of advertising, may, have helped.

[slow loom]

The gaming population is far larger and more mainstream than it was in 2005. Skyrim made the TES series much more popular in mainstream gaming especially with mods included.

I agree that the TV show would have helped with advertising and probably mobile to a degree. The Witcher tv show boosted sales of Witcher 3 by over 500% compared to the previous year.

[earnest merlin]

what about the world bad? empty?

[earnest merlin]

because of the wild time skip it's I wanna say more likely because its more mainstream to like games than in like 2004 or whatever it was at the time, and because internet marketing has grown a lot steam being perfect example

err, the auto app told me to watch my language and I literally have no idea what I said, if any mod or something wants to let me know what word triggered the system

[harsh crown]

Cursing and Profanity
Purposefully circumventing our profanity filter or otherwise cursing or using profanity is not permitted.

[earnest merlin]

regardless, I have no idea how people found out about about oblivion back in the day, or what people did before steam

[earnest merlin]

darn u 👿

[harsh crown]

We have #rules for a reason

[earnest merlin]

the silverblood family will be heard 👿

😂

I wish there were gifs or memes of that scene idk why but i can't forget it, it's just hilarious how mad the dude is and I don't even know why cuz he's already rich

[eager remnant]

Oblivion was announced in 2004 by revealing the title one letter a day on the front page of Bethesda's website with no explantion of what these letters might mean. This drew a lot of curious attention from other sites around the web. At the time the game was scheduled to be released in 2005. In 2005 it was postponed to 2006. Meanwhile there were interviews, screenshots and, I believe, game footage released from time to time, which helped to build up anticipation for the game.

[earnest merlin]

But that was a day when elder scroll spy was the premier website for mods

I miss when nexus wasn't holding a hard monopoly tbh. But that's my point is it was a different time and a different demographic. Everyone games now not just nerds

Like gaming is so normal now that it doesn't even make u a nerd anymore, it just makes u a normal person.

[nimble pond]

That doesn't automatically mean they're going to get Bethesda games just because they're new gamers. Games like Minecraft, Roblox, COD, have massive player counts, even in comparison. I was actually surprised at just how high the mobile version of COD was.

But there's also more people in the world today than say year 2000. I think it was like 6 billion then and around 8 billion now.

[nimble pond]

Nerds? 80s?

Gaming was already vastly popular in the 2000s among everyone. Even after the early 90s.

[earnest merlin]

it's the only explanation that makes sense

because there's no reason for oblivion to sell more now. you'll I'm assuming get maybe 70% of the original player base buying it, generous estimate but then Idk, plus skyrim and fallout 4 fans and whatever fans of their new stuff

also pedigreed of "the good old days"

they may as well remaster bg1 on some new engine. no way it doesn't pop off

[nimble pond]

I agree that spreading advertisement across various platforms/sources has played a significant role in increasing TES's fan base. As well as gaming, in general, increasing in popularity and with a larger populace pool today than say 25 years ago.

Let's move on back to more TES general chat since we've sorta been off-topic for a while now, shall we?

[earnest merlin]

and now I'm actually considering a 500 dollar monitor

they scamming us with these hd graphics

[heady yarrow]

Does this chat count towards ESO as well?

[earnest merlin]

I don't see eso or 76 channels tbh

[glad cypress]

Unfortunately after 300 hours, I felt the same. I put off the ||NG+|| for days because I didn't want to ||restart with nothing|| but even doing new runs with different outcomes and focusing on different factions just felt empty compared to the first playthrough. I feel like the initial discovery period was the only fun part

[glad cypress]

I think so, just don't put bug reports in here because it's not directly affiliated with BGS and they can't help

[eager remnant]

This is the Bethesda Game Studios Discord. Elder Scrolls Online was made by Zenimax Online. Their forums can be found here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en

[slow loom]

We would go to a retail store and pick what looked good off the shelves mostly. Oblivion was my first TES game on the xbox 360. Not sure what exactly made me get it but it had lots of awards and was goty before that title became meaningless.

[glad cypress]

Can't discount Youtubers and Streamers nowadays though, kids grew up watching them back in the Skyrim days, became streamers themselves and it's snowballed into a multi-billion dollar industry, with games taking center stage. Of course, some oldheads (24+) would have played the original, been excited for the remaster and streamed it to their hordes of fans who in turn bought it themselves

[jade plover]

Name 10 games with good worldbuilding

[dim reef]

I can name them:
Elder Scrolls Arena
Elder Scrolls Daggerfall
Elder Scrolls Morrowind
Elder Scrolls Oblivion
Elder Scrolls Skyrim
Fallout 3
Fallout 4
Fallout 76

And uh...

8 will have to do for now. Need to remember more

[jade plover]

Im asking terical because im interested in what he compare bethesda games with

[surreal axle]

is there an elder scrolls lore channel like there is for fallout?

[dim reef]

Ik i was just joking around

[jade plover]

That show was so bad so people wanted to buy the game instead of watching that

[slow loom]

While i agree the show grew gradually worse after season one i think the stats mostly refer to season one.

[feral viper]

Am I just limiting myself to fantasy?

[slow loom]

I ended up hate watching season 3 of the Witcher just so i could have closure. It was laughably bad and hard to watch. So much inconsistency and plot contrivance. It had like one or two good moments and half a good episode towards the end.

[jade plover]

No, you can name anything

[surreal axle]

yea I found it

[slow loom]

So many games it's hard to know where to start.

[jade plover]

I tried to send a link to it, but its not allowed

[surreal axle]

i found it

[slow loom]

Your opinion of good world building might be different to mine though.

Bioshock and Amnesia are two that come to mind without diving super deep through my steam library.

[jade plover]

I wasnt asking you, but i agree with great world building in bioshock 1 and 2. But elder scrolls are big open world games, so maybe it is more fair to compare them with similar ones. Small games always built better

[slow loom]

Fair point but i wanted to help hehe.

[midnight stag]

Do you think they’ll make at least a cinematic trailer for es6 at gamescom or the game of the year awards

[slow loom]

I would try not to think about it.

[wide garnet]

I’ve got a new twist to share from my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction:

While the end of the Oblivion Crisis closed the old liminal bridges, the opening of the Breach has opened entirely new liminal bridges. Ironically, Mehrunes Dagon can’t use them to them being, proportionately, too small for even his littlest toe to fit through.

The only reason why the Inquisition know about these new connections is because Miraak has used one of those new bridges to slip his bonds and escape Apocrypha. For now, he’s working with Corypheus ||(but that’s only because he’s planning to seize the Throne of the Gods for himself)||.

[jade plover]

They won't because there is no point in doing it

Maybe they will give us a title, but not more

[timid drum]

^

[feral viper]

Well, I'll limit myself to setting which originated as video games, so it'll be excluding things like LotR and Warhammer.

Nosgoth (from Legacy of Kain)

Ashan (from Ubisofts Might and Magic)

Enroth (from NWCs Might and Magic)

The Orion Sector (from Master of Orion)

Azeroth (Warcraft)

Eorzea (FF14)

The Milky Way (Endless franchise)

Alpha Centauri (Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri)

Halo (Halo)

The Milky Way (Advent Rising)

The World (Dishonored)

Neir (as much as I don't like it, it's actually very well constructed)

As a technicality, I actually like Ashan more than Enroth, though it appears we're going back to Enroth for the next Heroes of Light and Magic game...

[jade plover]

So when you talk about worldbuilding you mean exactly the lore part of it

[feral viper]

Oh, yeah. Worldbuilding, at least as I use it, refers entirely to the lore and setting side of things.

Worldspace, and Level Design, are more practical gameplay elements.

Bethesda's worldspaces are fantastic, and their level design pretty solid.

[wide garnet]

@feral viper what do you think of this latest twist?

[dim reef]

So a trailer may not be that far away

[stark flower]

Please do not share information about upcoming titles without an official link from Bethesda.

[dim reef]

Got it. Won't share that

[earnest merlin]

Oh right. I forgot about best buy

[feral viper]

Seems like Miraak's jam.

[wide garnet]

Is that good or bad? Also, how about the “new liminal bridges”?

[feral viper]

I think it's good, because its in keeping with his character.

As for the Liminal Bridges, this is perfectly in line with what we know. Sul basically says this is the case in Lord of Souls, and the existence of entities like the Hobs makes it clear that there are more than just Daedra out there.

[wide garnet]

How about Mehrunes Dagon? I bet he’s miffed about these new liminal bridges because he can’t use them.

[feral viper]

Well, he can't use them TO Tamriel. There's no reason he couldn't use them to Thedas.

Just means he has to take the long way around.

[wide garnet]

And “taking the long way around” might be more difficult than he anticipated.

Also, I opened up a DM between us to talk about DA/TES crossover stuff there so we don’t clutter things up here.

[feral viper]

No worries, I saw ya.

[inland shale]

Can we get an official link?

[harsh crown]

I believe what they meant was to avoid making claims unless you have official proof

[feral viper]

Anyone spreading rumour will get the Orichalcum candlestick

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/clue-candlestick-shouting-tim-curry-gif-27638669

[dim reef]

M'aiq is the best easter egg in any part. Skyrim could be predicted with Mike's phrases since Morrowind.
Maybe it's worth looking for patterns, more patterns to try to predict the future part

[inland shale]

How come the developers never post on this server? Do they have a gag order?

[dim reef]

Based on the prediction of Skyrim since Morrowind, it can be assumed that the sixth part can also be tried to predict with the phrases of M'aiq from different parts

M'aiq definitely knows about part 6!

If you really want to predict the sixth part, pay attention to this
All the stupid predictions before this are worthless

[harsh crown]

All who are in this server are free to post, so long as all comments are kept within the guidelines fo the #rules. As for why specific individuals do not post, well that is completely up to them.

[inland shale]

Really? 100% of bethesda staff doesn't post? That's wild, they must reside in another plane of existence from us mortals

[dim reef]

Revisiting M'aiq phrases is a much better way of predicting
He knows everything for sure.

I will make my prophecy for the sixth scrolls, much more qualitative and well-founded than fortune-telling by a teaser or a scratch on a panel in the Starfield trailer

I will definitely decipher the location of the sixth part and some of its mechanics before its release!

[wide garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/austin-powers-ouch-ouch-baby-oof-pain-gif-15786783

[eager remnant]

I would rather they put their energy into making the games.

[slow loom]

Input from the community can be invaluable though, not all but some. If you ignore it all then why even be in the discord to begin with.

It's also usually 10-15 devs online in the discord. I'm pretty sure there are more than that.

[eager remnant]

I did not say they should "igniore it." I said I would rather they put their energy into developing games, rather than posting. I am sure many devs read what is posted here, without posting themselves.

[bright siren]

Very sad to hear that Julian Lefay is losing his battle with cancer. Even though he, Vijay Lakshman, Ted Peterson, and the rest of the original team behind Elder Scrolls are often overlooked by the community, I'll always be thankful for them creating possibly one of my favorite video game series.

[slow loom]

Wasn't my intention. It would be nice to have an open dialogue with the developers instead of a one sided conversation but I 100% understand why they don't.

[jade plover]

Skyrim was not predicted based on Mike's phrases, what are you talking about?

[jade plover]

If they dont post, it doesnt mean they dont read

[feral viper]

That's a shame

I may not be a very big fan of his style, but no one deserves that. Cancer sucks

[inland shale]

I somewhat doubt that, they would at least post once in a while, they don't interact with the technical feedback either, it's all handled by moderators who just link FAQ. From gaming social communities I've observed e.g Paradox, developers are not antisocial and they usually chime in on the forums or server, it's their crowd, but here it's radio silence, meaning there might be corporate policy hindering them, or hubris.

[jade plover]

Well, when you dont communicate with your community you end up with making starfield

[inland shale]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-truth-nuke-trvth-nvke-big-boss-gif-15944112429945701902

[feral viper]

Bethesda has never really communicated with it's community.

So you can't really blame Starfield on business as usual for them

[inland shale]

Akchually, they did occasionally participate (e.g Kirkbride, Peterson, Rolston,Nelson,Noonan) in the forums up until oblivion. Now all of that has been substituted with community manager announcements and promotional videos.

[nimble pond]

They do on occasion make changes the community requested. Sometimes the community then hates what they asked for, lol, at least that doesn't happen too often though.
As for Starfield, it came out exactly as the type of game it was envisioned to be, no other studio could have made it any better and under the time frame with covid complications. Unless you wanted them to take out all the planets and have just one (which then kills the point of what the game aspired to be in the first place, "exploring endless space"), or take another two decades adding more detail to hundreds of planets and pushing back TESVI for another 20 years, lol!

[stark flower]

I've seen devs talk in here from time to time. And we do know that they read the suggestions channels at the very least. Believe it or not, they do listen. They also listen to the feedback tickets, and everywhere else. That's a lot of attention to be divided between them.

Anyway, good morning everyone.

[nimble pond]

Speaking of which, why don't we have a TESVI suggestions channel? 💔
Or is this channel considered as such?
I think Starfield had one, can't recall...
Oh, and Oblivion has one now!

[stark flower]

You can use this as one. Once they start looking into suggestions for 6, I'm sure they will let us know. I doubt that will happen before anything else is announced, though.

And starfield does have one, #starfield-suggestions 🙂

[glass marlin]

I already have a suggestion for 6: please no settlement building.

[feral viper]

Well, there was also the Morrowind Reaction that led to that.

Morrowind was not well recieved by 'fans'

And to be honest, I was one of those who initially hated it.

But the vitriol that went around when it came out was even worse than my criticism of New Vegas.

[inland shale]

What do you mean? I thought the general impression was that Morrowind and Oblivion were cult classics

[gloomy anchor]

Please do not spread misinformation.

[feral viper]

Morrowind BECAME beloved. It didn't start that way.

Morrowind was the beginning of the 'X ruined TES' trend.

[inland shale]

It's not misinformation, you can publically look up when the members were actively posting last time, it's part of discord features.

[stark flower]

I think it's really easy to look at numbers and come up with whatever reasoning you want.

But I wouldn't go around spreading rumors, since it is against the #rules

[glass marlin]

Side note, CouchTato your icon looks like she's about to do some illegal with that bat. XD

[stark flower]

Point is, they are here, they listen, end of story. Now let's get back to the topic please.

[stark flower]

shhhh

[feral viper]

I think the best example of the fact the they do look at these community groups, even if they don't engage, is Fallout 76.

Because it's clearly a direct response to the constant Multiplayer requests that plagued the forums in that day.

[inland shale]

Well, I thought we were having a discussion here, you said they post here, so I simply pointed out the fact most of them were active around the release of Starfield, but okay, end of story.

[feral viper]

Indeed. Point being their lack of engagement is nothing new. It's been their modus operandi for decades.

For better or worse.

But you can't blame Starfield on it, while also not attributing FO3, 4, Oblivion and Skyrim to it.

[inland shale]

I'd opt Oblivion out since most of the restructuring came after Oblivion

[nimble pond]

Probably for the best they don't often engage directly with the community. You have trolls that waste alot of time and very toxic or unreasonable folks that will just emotionally trigger you. Better to hire someone else to reply to the mob, while devs can focus on working on it instead.

[stark flower]

That's actually a good point too. Having us here does help with user concerns. When we see a huge influx of something, we can say something in real time when it may be missed otherwise. So there is that too.

[inland shale]

That would be a very conceited attitude to have, moderation exists for that, and you can't just shun all the nice people because of a few bad apples out there.

calling the fans "a mob" is a not a good look

[nimble pond]

I didn't shun all of them. In fact, I've seen devs and BGS staff engage with the community on here during special events like the watch it together channel thing. They also do AMA's.

I don't want to get into it, but frankly trolls and toxic or beyond reasonable attacks, and sometimes overly emotional personal attacks, are very much mob.

[inland shale]

But you literally just said they are above replying to the mob, and should hire third parties for that, that is snobbish shunning

[nimble pond]

No, I didn't. You're twisting the context cause you didn't like what I said.

Furthermore, I would think you'd agree it's better to let developers focus on what they were trained to do, developing the game. You know, so it doesn't take any longer than it has to, to release.
And let the community managers and moderators do what they were trained to do. They can serve as a sort of mediator between community and devs. So that our voices are still indeed heard!
And even so, as I stated before, we still do get to engage in rare planned events with the devs.

[inland shale]

You literally called fans a mob in a condescending generalized manner, what exactly is being twisted here?

[nimble pond]

If you want defend trolls and toxic people. You do you pal, I'm done with this nonsense argument.

And you also misinterpreted what I said. You made the assumption I was referring to ALL fans, which I did not.
Hope that clears it up for you.

[inland shale]

How exactly does shunning your fans help with moderating trolls?

[gloomy anchor]

This has nothing to do with elder scrolls, so lets move on.

[feral viper]

Well, we're just losing a strike then. Cause Oblivion is not great.

Making their success rate even higher, when not engaging with the community

[feral viper]

Or maybe Oblivion was because they did listen to the community reaction to Morrowind. Which was mostly negative, early on.

I don't actually know what factors led to Oblivion. All i know is I hate all of it.

But, Oblivion was criticised for not being like Morrowind. And then Skyrim was criticised for not being like Oblivion. And TES6 will be criticised for not being like Skyrim

https://tenor.com/view/circleoflife-lion-king-gif-9855575

[livid ingot]

There were definitely a fair few changes in Oblivion which were direct responses to criticisms of Morrowind. The tutorial and entry to the main quest - the heavy guidance early in the game - was meant to rectify an issue a lot of players reportedly had in Morrowind where they were at a loss of what to do after beginning the game.

Likewise the quest arrows were to address frustrations at getting lost with sometimes vague and confusing quest directions

Both changes which were criticized by lovers of Morrowind

But changes which definitely helped open the series to a broader audience

[inland shale]

Streamlining is definitely a pattern in the series. Although more and more players are starting to appreciate nuanced games with less hand holding and more agency, complex decision making and strategizing.

[livid ingot]

This brings up a funny phenomenon where criticisms of a prior game are addressed in a new one, in a sense pandering to people that didn't like or at least had mixed feelings about earlier titles, rather than pandering to people who adored them. It's no wonder there is always a proportion of players who react negatively to each new title. Many changes are made to draw in new players, not necessarily keep old ones.

[pulsar root]

You can't please everyone on the planet. You can try to make your game as fun as possible and make it friendly to the player.

[inland shale]

Would you say comparing Starfield to Fallout 4 work as an example or more so with Elder Scrolls? Because a common criticism of Fallout 4 was dialogue choices but it doesn't seem like Starfield did much on that.

[livid ingot]

You can't, but you can please investors by appealing to new people and growing the fan base. I think the established fan base is expected to turn out over brand loyalty, so their concerns aren't always the most prioritized. But ultimately they want both groups to be happy.

[livid ingot]

Not sure, not familiar with Fallout

[cosmic canyon]

Hy everyone I’m playing oblivion on ps5 and I have a little problem I’m looked in gweden farm idk how to resolve pls can anyone can help me

[feral viper]

Oh absolutely. It applies across all Bethesda games.

Criticisms about Skyrim resulted in changes in Fallout 4 Making Attributes the primary mechanism for progression, for instance. More impactful factions. Less random a world (there are set enemy regions in FO4).

It's not a phenomenon strictly limited to subsequent TES games.

Bethesda does, in fact, try to address criticisms of their previous games in their subsequent ones.

They just often end up creating new criticisms in the process.

[slow loom]

Expanding your playerbase often involves tapping into untapped markets, sacrificing depth for more casual players, going cross-platform and rereleasing it. Making the game have social features or going multiplayer even if it's predominantly a single-player game. Monetizing the game with microtransactions and having a battlepass.

This often ends up with core fans feeling alienated, leading to negative feedback and backlash. Reputation damage happens as the company prioritizes profit over player experience. Forgoing innovation and the crafting of a unique experience.

So many things i just listed have been implemented over the years into Bethesda games if not all of them.

[half igloo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/699707976461844590/1395437909892530346/image.png?ex=687a7253&is=687920d3&hm=e6ae19719d7c6f33108c109483b75673b6a528e70a1058bb185bf76ec5a9f8e4&

People are leaving messages for Julian here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwMyPR8Li6k

[feral viper]

Past games weren't actually very deep, though.

People have been requesting various social features for literal decades. Hell, The Nexus literally spawned BECAUSE Bethesda didn't offer its own social platform for modding.

And yeah. Microtransactions are a thing. People constantly want more and more and more, and what do you expect? Constant free stuff?

Like, especially regarding Multiplayer, you act like this wasn't the single most common request from the community since Morrowind.

At its SLOWEST, mods were rolling multiplayer request threads into the main TES discussion thread at least once a week on the Forums. During high traffic periods, it was multiple times a day.

These weren't some top-down dictates from suits. These were direct responses to constant requests from the community.

[jade plover]

Well, for me it seems most of their games improvements are just natural games evolution (better graphics, animation, details etc), but they dont add things that players actually ask for

[jade plover]

Exactly. To make a really good game, you have to choose your audience and make a game fun for them, not for everyone. Or at least give people a choice like Elden Ring did

[jade plover]

Not sure about it. They probably added attributes to fallout 4 because fallout without attributes is a nonsense, and not because people complained about it in skyrim. Factions are not more impactful, they just became part of the main plot and all have almost the same quests instead of personal stories wich is way worse than in skyrim imo. And skyrim also had set enemy regions,you wont meet reachmen outside of reach or falners outside if their own caves.

[dim reef]

They do. Far Harbor for example was a direct response to most of FO4's main criticisms. More skill checks, more branching choices and consequences, better story etc.

Continuing that Fallout 76 brought back proper stat checks and more perk variety

Even Starfield for all it's flaws listened to a lot of 4's criticisms notably the better dialogue system, limited crafting and base building etc. (Although i don't agree with the last two, some people did complain about them)

[jade plover]

Language of facts. But fortunately most of these didnt happen to bethesda

[dim reef]

Even just smaller qol improvements like parkour. Thank god you can actually vault over things in Starfield is a massive upgrade to climbing rocky terrain

[jade plover]

Bethesda invented payable skins in single pmayer games though

[dim reef]

Bethesda ain't the only one at fault there. Valve is equally to blame

Bethesda introduced them, Valve popularized them

[jade plover]

Free stuff is cool. When game is succcessfull, company has enough money to update it for free. A lot of devs add new content for free in their games, while bethesda sells mods

[dim reef]

They aren't really mods. They officially contract and commission people to make them. Heck some of them are made by Bethesda themselves

[jade plover]

Still they sell few quests and items with the half of game price. whereas the cost in relation to labor should not exceed a dollar. Its basically a scam

[dim reef]

That's what every company does so they didn't really start that trend

[jade plover]

I didnt say they started it, but its a bad trend to follow

[dim reef]

It is sadly a trend. It makes money. Same way selling Skyrim a billion times brings money

People keep buying them too. Only way to stop it is to not buy them

[jade plover]

Wait no, they actually started it with horse armor

[dim reef]

Not that. The external creation club stuff

Valve has been doing that too. Adding and selling community made stuff for TF2 and CSGO

Pretty sure they started that particular trend

[jade plover]

Yeah, this is sad too. In dota they made their own skins before, but now, it seems, they just take sets from community workshop

[dim reef]

Valve and Bethesda are basically long lost brothers

[jade plover]

I will agree here, but i still havent played far harbor so idk about it

[feral viper]

A company can do a lot of things. But they are legally obligated to make money. Giving things away from free, means failing in their responsibility to shareholders.

Which means shareholders can forcibly remove those making the decisions to give stuff away for free.

[stark flower]

Let's keep it respectful please

[feral viper]

Keep in mind, video games are not personal art. They are not a Utopia for creativity. They aren't even there to enrich our lives.

They exist for a single purpose. Making money. That is the reality of capitalism.

[stark flower]

They exist for more than one purpose. The people who make games are generally passionate about them, and the people that play them take something meaningful from them too. I don't think it's fair to boil them down to a money making scheme.

[feral viper]

I am a social pessimist and anti-capitalist. Everything in our dystopia exists for the sake of making money.

It would be nice if it weren't the case. But that's the reality we live in.

[jade plover]

Depends on who you ask

[feral viper]

My point being, free stuff is never more than a token PR stunt. It's not a viable long term model, especially not when you get into actual studios who have bills to pay.

One dev working in their free time form home? Sure. But when you have to pay 300+ people, every month, you need a source of income. And constantly supporting something that's not making money, isn't how you pay your employees.

Hell, even Charities need income. And game studios aren't charities.

Now, do I AGREE with the pricing models that marketing departments set for microtransactions? Absolutely not.

I think sales volume is a better model than per-unit profit.

But if people make something, they deserve compensation. If they WANT to give it away for free, that's one thing, but this whole consumer-side 'We deserve free stuff and support because we already supported you once' nonsense needs to go.

[jade plover]

Im not saying they have to support game forever for free, im saying that selling doubtful quality mods for 20$ is scam

[feral viper]

Along with the nostalgia for the 'Good old days'. But that's a much broader social issue that's been a chronic thorn since the days of Aristotle. And probably longer.

[gloomy anchor]

This is way out of topic. let's keep it on ES

[feral viper]

Indeed. The original point being, it's blatantly clear that Bethesda looks at the criticism of a previous game, when working on the new one. So all the criticisms about Starfield WILL factor into their decisions regarding TES6.

They're not stupid. Even if they don't talk to us directly, they know what we're saying. And they will each to it.

Will they make good decisions in that reaction? That remains to be seen.

So long as they don't do anything Oblivion did, I think it'll at least be in the right direction.

[nimble pond]

In other news, there was a Kuhlmann interview just a few days ago.
Full - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_KoqJlyWA54&pp=ygUWS3VydCBrdWhsbWFuIGludGVydmlldw%3D%3D
Bit regarding TESVI - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=joGWHD7LtR4

I haven't had the chance to watch yet, but as I've been told, not much is said about TESVI.

[slow loom]

I was listing tactics that companies use to mass market their games. I wasn't saying one thing is bad over another. People always want singleplayer games turned into multiplayer ones nearly 100% of the time. We all want our favourite game to be sharable with friends.

Most of what I listed is what we have already discussed as negatives in the way Bethesda designs their new games. We complain about the dumbing down of the series, which in other words is making it more casual friendly.

They rerelease their games on all platforms and even do half remasters at full price, think the many editions of Skyrim. They monetize with player made mods. Made a singleplayer game into a multiplayer game with a cash shop, premium paid monthly subscription and battlepass. While also originally charging the same price as a singleplayer game. They sacrificed quality for reputation hits to pump out products faster and at lower quality. Innovation has mostly stagnated and new systems are few and far between, often at the sacrifice of something else. Fans give negative feedback and backlash in the discord and reviews which ends with fans feeling alienated.

Not all of this is bad but it does show that all the tricks in the bag are getting used for the most part.

[feral viper]

Fair enough.

[glass marlin]

o7

[timid drum]

cheers to this man

[steel loom]

😦

[nimble pond]

Put Lefay as a NPC in TESVI!

[cyan vector]

Julianos and Sheogorath are named after Julian and Ted (Theodore) respectively

[livid ingot]

Yeah, Julien Lefay is already in the game, for all intents and purposes

[nimble pond]

Maybe a Julianos quest in TESVI?

[glad cypress]

Reminds me of July and August = Julius and Augustus Caesar

[midnight stag]

What do you think Bethesda has in store for gamescom for maybe es6 it could just be the right time to get some info about it to not freak out over when it comes finally comes out who knows?

[dim reef]

I suppose that in the sixth part there may be:

1. Improved system of pursuits where the guards will not recognize you with a penalty immediately if you find yourself in another city
2. Destructible environment (dynamic world)
3. More developed system of companions and interaction with them (division of trophies)
4. Magic in weapons (built-in magic in weapons, not just enchantments but casting spells, for example, from swords)

5. Soul Bargaining Mechanics (stealing souls into soul gems by making deals with soul cairn rulers to gain benefits)

Assumptions are made based on a small analysis of M'aiq the Liar's phrases.

This is not a final analysis of the phrases, but even based on this analysis, I presented 5 most likely options for new mechanics.

Ironically, I haven't actually noticed that Maiq's lines were lies, he was talking about things that either happened or were jokes, but not lies. If you really try to look into some of the possible mechanics, you need to try to analyze his phrases and I presented options based on the analysis of his phrases (phrases that do not refer to Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind, but most likely refer to the sixth scrolls)

[dim reef]

Objectively, too little time has passed.
Development of new parts in the past took on average 4-5 years
Development of the sixth began in 2023 officially, if we do not take into account the errors, then the development has been going on for about two years, which is too little for an announcement.
Subjectively, the concepts and design document were made in advance before the official development. Therefore, the real development period is questionable, perhaps shadow development was carried out before the official one.

So it is not known for sure, but it is better not to get your hopes up

[dim reef]

Speaking of the teaser for the sixth part. It doesn't look like Illiac Bay for a simple reason: If it were Illiac Bay and the area with those three spires corresponded to Hammerfell, then the outline of High Rock could be seen in the sea. If the developers intentionally didn't show High Rock (which is unlikely), it turns out they let the fans down
The sea in the teaser is boundless. There is no obvious hint of islands or other provinces.

But this does not mean that the sixth part will not cover Hammerfell and High Rock.

I will not make any final statements about the provinces in Part VI. I do not have sufficient grounds to make final assumptions on this matter.

But for those interested in what mechanics there might be, look at my post above with 5 possible mechanics (which have a pretty good probability)

[nimble pond]

#5 Not even I.. would try to strike a deal with the Ideal Masters. I know better and how foolish it would be to attempt so. 💀

[feral viper]

Nah, the Ideal Masters offer peace and rest.

They the real GOATs.

[feral viper]

Ya know the Iliac Bay is enormous, right? It's narrowest is still wider than the Straights of Dover. Which is the only part of the English Channel where you can see England from France.

[eager remnant]

The average is less than that. The time between main releases has averaged between two to four years . Starfield is an anomaly in this regard, due mostly to COVID.

[feral viper]

Now, if Tamriel is Flat, that's a whole other thing...

[midnight stag]

Well here’s to 2026 for es6 please Todd Howard because they’re releasing a bunch of aaa games in that year I guess I don’t really know but hopefully it’s true

[dim reef]

Arena 1994
Daggerfall 1996
Morrowind 2002
Oblivion 2006
Skyrim 2011
At least 4-5 years as a rule
not counting arena and daggerfall

although these are only release dates, the actual development time needs to be reviewed

Morrowind start of development 1998, realized in 2002
Oblivion start of development 2002, realized in 2006
Skyrim start of development 2008, realized in 2011(However, in 2006 they were already able to work on Skyrim, a little bit)

It turns out that on average, development before this did not take more than 4 years
And Skyrim took about 3 years, because a small amount of development was carried out beforehand

It turns out that 3 years is enough to make a good game if you do a little development in advance

In fact, 6 scrolls are being developed for about 1,9-2 years

So, if the game wasn't worked on in advance, then we'll have to wait at least another 2 years
If it was, then most likely about a year

And the work on the scrolls was carried out in advance, therefore, we will have to wait another 1-2 years maximum.

In that case, a new trailer could be shown at gamescom 2025 or at game awards 2025.
But these are just guesses, maybe part 6 will be much larger and will take more time

6-12 months before the gameplay trailer/bigger demo before the game is released. So if it is shown during 2025, then the 2026 release scenario is realistic.
If it is shown in 2026, then the release will take place closer to 2027 or even in 2027.

[pulsar root]

Don't expect anything to be shown at gamescon. Its not the end of the world.

[timid drum]

^

[dim reef]

I'm betting on gamescom

I don't expect that they will show it at gamescom, it just seems that way to me. It's not a fact that I'm right.

[stark flower]

Please be respectful to each other and be sure to review the #rules

[midnight stag]

Well I can get with what is has been said on here if a es6 release date comes in 2026 if it comes early 2027 I have a lot of love for Bethesda and I want to believe in them

[uneven jetty]

I don't think development on TES6 started in 2023, when Starfield dlc didn't launch till fall 2024

[eager remnant]

TES6 entered full develoment in Augest, 2023. This was confirmed by Pete Hines in an August 30 interview with PC Gamers in which he stated that TES6 "...is no longer in pre-production."

[midnight stag]

So hopefully we can get it before next gen Xbox

[normal zenith]

My biggest wish for TES6 is that there is a museum included in-game, that has space set aside in some places to allow for more wings to be added by modders or with the release of DLC. Basically, I want Legacy of the Dragonborn to be just a vanilla feature for TES6. They already had a museum feature in Morrowind, so maybe it can happen??

[uneven jetty]

Yknow that could mean literally anything right? It could mean they had a small handful of engineers tinkering on it. That isn't the same as a full dev team getting behind the game and making a joint effort.

Also I don't think it's fair to say games have only taken longer lately due to covid, I believe the dev cycle has also lengthened in general

Not to mention some important people seem to have left bethesda after starfield, no? You have to replace those people and hire + train new devs across the board

[normal zenith]

I'm perfectly happy to let TES6 take more time in development. The more hand-made NON-PROCEDURAL content, the happier I'll be

[uneven jetty]

Same here.

[nimble pond]

Yea, I'm really interested and intrigued by Archeological stuff.

[glad cypress]

It could also mean a small handful of devs were working on the dlc while the lion's share moved on to TES6. We can't really know for sure unless we hear it from the horse's mouth

[dim reef]

According to this post on 25 march last year, they already had early builds ready to be tested.
It's definitely well into full production
https://x.com/BethesdaStudios/status/1772261818003497362?t=rPBXb3ES2y7kbnRtX4c_Gg&s=19

Bethesda Game Studios (@BethesdaStudios)

Happy 30 years of The Elder Scrolls:

X · Mar 25, 2024, 1:58 PM

[slow loom]

Games are much more complex to create than they were in the early 2000s. Some games only took a few weeks to make in the 90s. Dev cycles have only grown since then but some advances have made development easier. Bethesda is good at rushing out games but they are often quite buggy on release as a trade off. I think 3-4 years is the sweet spot and anything past that is going beyond the average consumers expectations. You could also have 1000 people work on a game for 2 years or 100 people work on it for 6. Direct comparisons are tricky as team size and skill can play a huge role in time to create a product.

[dim reef]

RPGs in general have always been buggy no matter the time frame or studio.
If anything recently they've been getting less buggy, Starfield launched in a pretty stable state despite it's design flaws

[slow loom]

Each to their own.

[feral viper]

Both have their uses.

[feral viper]

Yeah, when we're talking about Bethesda, Starfield was their best launch to date.

[proven pumice]

I need opinions on an idea I had

Using Tamriel as a girls name

[eager remnant]

Awhile back there was a female YouTuber who went by the name of Tamrielle. I always thought it sounded nice.

[proven pumice]

It feels like it could work. You could even use Tammy as a nickname

[dim reef]

Even beyond Bethesda. Take Bioware, DATV was by far their best launch till date. Their games are known to be pretty buggy.
Or Obsidian's Avowed. It launched pretty well too.
RPGs in general have been getting pretty stable as of lately

[feral viper]

Indeed.

But I also don't buy into the whole 'Games were better in the past' schtick. So I'm already in board with your position.

Games are generally more stable, have more content, and are more complex, than they ever have been.

[feral viper]

You know... That image actually makes me angry

Like it's clear that Bethesda's artists HAVE skill, and stylistic vision.

So why do we keep getting the most generic art design possible in the games, when the sketches and concepts look that good?

[dim reef]

I mean i love their games' art direction so i can't relate to that

[feral viper]

IMO, only one TES game has had good art direction.

Morrowind.

[thorn stratus]

Its a little funny so I've been playing Dark Souls for so long now I got a little pstd when I encountered my first dragon in skyrim. Fortunately I prevailed

[feral viper]

Before long, you'll be comparing those dragons to Cliff Racers.

[slow loom]

I'd agree with you but the last 5-10 years have seen a sharp decline in quality in favour of speed and money. With the rise of Early access, less stable and feature incomplete games became the norm. Triple A tried their hand at it culminating in releases like 76, Cyberpunk, Madden, Battlefield 2042, CoD Vanguard, WWE 2K20, Halo Master Chief Collection, Assassins Creed Unity. I could go on but you get the point. They have all at some point in recent history tried to pass off subpar products at full price.

Dragon Age: The Veilguard had it's problem but was a very stable and well polished release. Anthem on the other hand had major issues with a severe lack of content, false advertising and gear that simply didnt work as intended. Gaming is slowly coming back to more stable and polished releases but it would be a lie to say it's been getting better since the 2000s.

[dim reef]

We've had plenty of buggy and unstable games way before the last 5 or 10 years.

One such game nearly sunk the entire gaming industry back in 80s.
No game has ever managed to achieve a feat that big since then

For every unstable game we have now. There's twice as many that run well.
If you focus solely on failures ofcourse it'd appear quality has gone down

[slow loom]

Imagine if GTA 3 released in Cyperpunks release state. There would be no real way for the consumer to fix the issue. They would most likely have to make a second patch disc and send it out to consumers free of charge. This would have massive hit to their profits so they adopted the do it right the first time mentality. Most companies that sent out buggy games in the past would go under. But with the rise of the day one patch and fixing it after release, more companies get away with it.

[dim reef]

That didn't stop games like Halo 2, Vampires TMBL, Kotor 2 etc. from being complete buggy messes at launch.

We've had botched releases way before day 1 patches were even a thing

[pulsar root]

We don't need to make mountains out of mole hills. Good point about KOTOR2. That game got pushed out early.

[dim reef]

And like i said. Not a single botched release today could compare to what happened in the 80s with ET

[slow loom]

I'm not arguing that buggy games haven't always existed. Only that it usually spelt the death of a company if they did.

Sure innovative but buggy titles might get a cult following and become popular still but where is KOTOR3?

[dim reef]

SWTOR

[pulsar root]

Because the MMO is still existing. Thats why.

[dim reef]

Not only existing but it was a big hit too

[slow loom]

Not sure id call an mmo a true successor just like 76 isn't fallout 5.

[pulsar root]

Its literally several years after the events of KOTR2.

[dim reef]

Except FO76 doesn't directly follow up the prior games. SWTOR directly picks up a lot of things from kotor 1 and 2

[slow loom]

Look you either see it or you don't and i want to go to sleep.

[feral viper]

The biggest difference I see, personally, is that bad launches persist in the community consciousness much longer now than they did a decade ago.

You used to have a bad launch, and with 3 weeks everyone had basically just moved on. Now, because the hate-machine fuels clicks, and because the industry tries to push service models, failed launches get dragged out for years as they try to right the sinking ship.

And when they do manage to right the ship, everyone forgets the growing pains. No on remembers how garbage The Witcher 3 was on launch anymore. No one remembers how Fallout New Vegas was unplayable for about 30% of players for the first 2 weeks. No one remembers the constant server crashes of WoW every hour, or the zone loading issues..

[slow loom]

Cyberpunk wasn't a hate filled machine and now people like it. CDPR's one and only super buggy release and they did everything in their power to do right by the community. If you can't see that a lot of AAA companies that have long track records of releasing mostly stable well polished games all of a sudden started to release buggy messes im not sure what to tell you.

[feral viper]

Probably the only game I give Obsidian slack on.

[feral viper]

Hah, nah. Wild Hunt launched bug filled too. People just don't remember it's launch, because they fixed the issues and it became a beloved game.

NPCs would literally rocket into the sky mid conversation, bugging out and leaving you unable to progress quests.

[slow loom]

It was their first open world game and i dont think it was massively broken like cyberpunk.

[feral viper]

It was almost Bethesda buggy on launch.

Now, in their defense, you are right, it was their first open world game. Whereas Bethesda has been trying to solve that problem for 30 years.

[slow loom]

Well as you said yourself there are levels to this and Starfield was their best launch.

[dim reef]

It was about as buggy as any rpg at the time be it Bethesda's, Bioware's or Obsidian's

[feral viper]

Now, I DO think there's been a bit of a quality drop lately, and cash grabs, but I see the entire Remaster trend as cash grabs sooo...

[slow loom]

I dont agree with this all RPGs were buggy. The Final Fantasy series has been pretty immaculate.

[feral viper]

Well, except for that one with what's her face...

[dim reef]

Japanese rpgs are an exception. Always has been

[slow loom]

a new rule

[feral viper]

Lightning.

[dim reef]

They've been performing miracles ever since the 90s

[pulsar root]

If Skyrim released post 2015. It would of been torn apart(Or even the 2020s)

[dim reef]

The Japanese are just better at making games

[feral viper]

Western RPGs have always been kinda buggy messes

[slow loom]

I guess it depends on what you consider an RPG as the term is pretty meaningless these days.

Well im glad for the clarification.

[dim reef]

RPG as a genre has undergone a multitude of changes. It's a wide array now. What we consider as crucial now didn't exist back in the 90s

Factions for example. Nowadays almost every big rpg is expected to have multiple big factions to side with that lead to different endings.
None of that existed back then

[slow loom]

Maybe your rpgs. My bases for an rpg these days is mostly having a character that gets gear or progresses in power in some way.

[feral viper]

The latter Ultima games, Quest for Glory, Baldur's Gate, Might and Magic...

All buggy

Neverwinter Nights was notorious for it's bugs when it came out.

[dim reef]

That's another one. Nowadays a lot of people seem to ignore gameplay and think dialogue systems alone are what define an rpg.
Comparatively, the focus was more on gameplay before.

[slow loom]

Baldurs Gate 3 released in a solid state and so did Diablo 3 besides a slight launch hiccup and the AH problems.

It really just depends on how much a company cares about their reputation and how much invisible reputation currency they can afford to lose.

[dim reef]

Which version of BG3 are you even talking about. That game has been changed so many times i can hardly tell.

[slow loom]

The new one. Clair Obscur had a solid mostly bug free release from my knowledge.

We got a little side tracked and i see that you don't share my opinions and thats fine. Each to their own.

[bitter kestrel]

Let's bring the conversation back to Elder Scrolls please

[feral viper]

Indeed, let's circle back to an easier target.

My unpopular opinions..

https://tenor.com/view/cackling-evil-laugh-witch-creeping-gif-5632950

[feral viper]

I was playing my Video Game Music playlist today at work... And was reminded of one of my all time favourite pieces.

Which unfortunately knocked Battelspire off the to 10. Leaving only a single TES song in my top 10

[midnight stag]

Could they announce es6 at goty awards 2025 and somehow release it the next year I’m also pulling for a new fallout game of any kind

[dim reef]

It's best to give up hope

Many people have been waiting for this game for a long time, hoping that it would come out a few years ago, thinking that it would come out a long time ago in the past.
It turned out not to be the case, so there is no need to wait

it's about psychology, not pathos

By lowering your expectations, there will be no disappointments, as a rule. If, for example, you write a test and initially expect a bad grade, even if you get it, it will be expected. But if the grade turns out to be even slightly better than bad, it will be a pleasant surprise

It's easier not to wait and not to be distracted by this part about which literally almost nothing is known
When she comes out then we can come back to life again

Or do you want to end up as a skeleton in a dungeon, lying with a diary that says: day 99999 - tes 6 hasn't come out yet..

[midnight stag]

Well if Skyrim came with the game awards 15 years ago then maybe we can just get a glimpse of es6 there again

Then if we get it in 2027 that would mean next gen Xbox all though people don’t know if it will be 2026 or 2027 will we get the new console

[timid drum]

Hunter, you keep asking the same question, you're going to get the same answer. Have patience and wait, continually asking the same question will not make any game release sooner

[midnight stag]

Okay

[feral viper]

To be honest, this is why we ended up getting the teaser in the first place.

[timid drum]

Yeah you aren't wrong, just gives false hope imo. Don't get me wrong, I love the ES series despite all its flaws, but it isn't worth having that false hope :p

[nimble pond]

We might be getting more "vehicles" than expected. Whether on release or thru DLCs.
Starfield started with spaceships and now even has land vehicles.

Here, we've discussed the idea of sailing ships and other water vessels. We already have other "vehicles" such as horses, carriages, dragon-riding. So perhaps besides sailing, there will be inclusion of other vehicles for various options of travel in TESVI? For example, air ships do exist in the lore.

[jade plover]

You ask it every few days and always get a "no" answer. Why do you keep asking?

[nimble pond]

They're one of the Bethesda NPCs that escaped the game and got loose in public.

[midnight stag]

Boredom and optimism really I know you can’t comment but just want hope in the void of Bethesda and I’m a shut in

[feral viper]

Take up miniature painting. It's a great time sink

And financial sink...

And social sink. And space sink.

[violet lily]

There's some really cool designs for TES minis that I've seen floating around. If I had the time to dedicate to painting at a rate that wouldn't see my paints dry out, I'd totally get them.

[feral viper]

I have some stls from a Kickstarter with them

[feral viper]

One of these days, I'll print them off and get them painted. But I've got so many minis needing paint as it is.

But some day. Some day I'll have the Legion out those separatist vermin in their place.

https://tenor.com/view/for-the-glory-of-rome-marcus-acacius-gladiator-ii-for-rome's-honor-gladiator-2-gif-3577480078919157398

[tardy tiger]

https://modiphius.net/cdn/shop/products/ImperialLegionPack_RGB-72dpi_800x.jpg?v=1619081304

Yeah I also need to get round to getting them and painting them.

[feral viper]

It'll be interesting to see how they print. Because their proportions are more realistic.

Which is usually not what you want for minis.

[shell swan]

Julian Lefay has passed away.

[glad shadow]

I just heard

Man.

[spiral breach]

Blessings of Julianos be upon him ❤️

[humble sequoia]

EOS 6 when ?

[feral viper]

Man, if I believed in an afterlife, it would be getting crowded.

[rancid imp]

Julian LeFay, what a legend 🫡

[ornate basin]

I just saw the article :(

[wide garnet]

Just having some fun from my Dragon Age: The Lost Scrolls fanfiction:

Matthias: General Tullius, sir! I’ve got some important information for you, and for Cyrodiil. The Penitus Oculatus (did I get that right?) were investigating an organization “from across the sea”, and that very organization sent a message to the Inquisition to deliver to Cyrodiil: ‘Call off your spies. Expect no trouble from us.’

Apparently they’re just as concerned about the Thalmor as we are; they’re certainly from a foreign land from ‘across the sea’ because they use proverbs most of us are not familiar with (‘A caterpillar on a leaf does not know there is a forest around it.’) as well as unusual marks and symbols (an inverted equilateral triangle with wavy lines passing through it); and they call themselves ‘the Executors’.

We still don’t know if they’re going to be allies or enemies, but for now we’re on their side.

[rancid root]

Man, I just got the news….

[wide garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/bunny-rabbit-sad-tired-drag-gif-24495685

[mighty bronze]

Hey all! I recently had an awesome opportunity to interview Bruce Nesmith who wrote for D&D in the 80s/90s, then worked for Bethesda as Lead Designer for Skyrim, Fallout and more, now wrote a LitRPG series. Thought you all might like it.
https://www.nerdgasmtoynews.com/post/exclusive-interview-d-d-skyrim-author-bruce-nesmith

[nimble pond]

Alr, I'm on the spell-crafting train again this morning. Not just doing it like it was done before, but highly customizable in every way, not just effects, but things like appearance too. Really let us create our own spells, giving them our own identity, and show them off. It's something I have yet to see anyone do well. Customization options, variety, and all the different parts we can breakdown and custom, has increased in bgs games and I'd like to see that continue on and expand with weapons and armor.

[nimble pond]

https://media.tenor.com/564fWqNyqhgAAAAM/waiting-patiently.gif

[eager remnant]

Two Worlds 2 gave us a spellmaking system that blew the spellmaking system used in Morrowind and Oblivion completely out of the water. If TES6 offered even half the customizability of TW2, I would be happy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XobgQaC3CBs

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/train-confusion-whats-my-stage-train-of-confusion-gif-26130056

[exotic falcon]

Bruh he didn’t work at Bethesda since 1998

[exotic falcon]

Yeah, really sad news, hope his family and friends are doing okay

Hope they do some kind of memorial or something in the elder scrolls 6

[tight wave]

Cool ... but would not wish to be a passenger on that train

[feral viper]

Would not be the worst train I've seen.

[sick plover]

Hiya everyone 👋😊.

[feral viper]

Heya

[sick plover]

Is anyone on ?

[feral viper]

More or less. On break from work right now.

[timid drum]

aye, between work and college, alone time aint something i got lol

[feral viper]

Being alone is bad for me. The voices start arguing.

https://tenor.com/view/voices-are-real-jack-nicholson-nod-yes-the-shining-gif-16412513

[timid drum]

I get it, i'm down the sickness

[sick plover]

Hiya everyone 👋😊

[foggy dawn]

Why'd you refuse to marry the Dragonborn?

🤔

[sick plover]

Cause he told me he hates being bitten lol 😆

[pulsar root]

Vampire world problems.

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/ill-do-it-tom-ellis-lucifer-morningstar-lucifer-volunteer-gif-17399541

[sick plover]

Boo lol 😆

[thick talon]

I know it's technically ZOS, not Bethesda, but does anyone know when the next ESO+ trial is? I have all storage unlocked and I still only have about 15 inventory slots available

[somber perch]

the downfall of biggie boss needs to be studied

[eager remnant]

You'll have better success asking in their forums: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-kermit-the-frog-bruh-smiling-drive-gif-15356829470608861764

[eager remnant]

Biggie_boss is the creator of the LoreRim modlist, a Wabbajack project containing over 4,000 mods. I am not aware of any "downfall" experienced by biggie_boss or his modlist.

[feral viper]

Huh, ok. That's probably why I'd never heard of them, I don't use modlists. I just make my own.

[jaunty oak]

Can we pc mods for consoles

[sacred topaz]

Why would you ever do that? The amount of PC mods is staggering when compared to what's available to consoles

[dim reef]

Also a lot of mods on pc use the script extender which consoles fundamentally can't support

[jaunty oak]

I meant to say, can we get PC mods for consoles

[dim reef]

We can't. Atleast not as long as MS and Sony don't ease up on their restrictions.
SE mods however will never make it to consoles

[dim reef]

Bethesda is silent for some reason, there are no new videos on YouTube for over a month. Is something interesting coming up at gamescom?

Maybe they will show TES 6?

[void hill]

yo can someone who has ESO do me a favour? i’m trying to recreate sotha sils mask irl, but i need like a good reference, can someone go in the game and walk up to him and then walk around him so i can see the mask at every angle? :3

[somber perch]

dude is removing all modlists and quitting because he cant ignore people. if you have anything to say about it expect a ban from his discord.

[pulsar root]

MS is more lenient on it then Sony, they're far more restrictive when it comes to mods.

[dim reef]

True but it is still quite restrictive even on Xbox. Although it has been getting better recently

Maybe one day there will be no restrictions

[glad cypress]

SKSE running on that new xbox console that has steam and others would go crazy, considering it's off W11

[sick plover]

Hiya 👋

[sick plover]

Anyone still alive and kicking in here ? Lol

[foggy dawn]

Hello.

[sick plover]

How are ya?

[foggy dawn]

Skyblivion likely coming out by the end of the year, and Skywind possibly coming in 2026.

Though, both won't have DLC at launch... Still though, good times ahead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wWpMR5mo-w

[sick plover]

Anyone ever played Elder Scrolls 4 Oblivion remastered? Lol

[foggy dawn]

Yes.

[sick plover]

What ya thought of it ? Lol

[foggy dawn]

I thought it was a very good remaster of the original in terms of the gameplay and visual design.
And, that devs REALLY need to learn to optimize their games.

[sick plover]

Ik right lol

[wide garnet]

As far as remakes go, it was more than a bit meh.

[foggy dawn]

Skywind looks so goooood...

And Oblivion Remastered has made me miss a lot of the creature comforts added in Skyrim, so, can't wait to see Skyblivion either.

[sick plover]

Hmmm 🤔 I see 🧐

Anyone uses mods in Skyrim? Lol

[foggy dawn]

I use quality of life mods, I don't really go crazy with gameplay, content, or visual mods.

Though... You could technically qualify Enderal as a mod.
I LOVED Enderal, and you need to play it ASAP.

It's a new game made inside Skyrim's engine and assets basically. I would argue it's better than Skyrim itself in many ways.

[wide garnet]

Is a coconut brown?

[sick plover]

Ummm never heard of it lol

[foggy dawn]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/976620/Enderal_Forgotten_Stories_Special_Edition/

Steam

Enderal: Forgotten Stories (Special Edition)

Enderal: Forgotten Stories (Special Edition) is a total conversion mod for Skyrim SE, which is now running on the 64 bit version of the TES V: Skyrim Special Edition. This version benefits heavily from the new rendering engine and features improved lighting effects, smoother image quality and the best possible performance & stability.

Endera…

▶ Play video

It's free if you already own Skyrim. And it installs totally independently of Skyrim, so it won't mess with an existing intallation at all.

[copper mulch]

Would wonder how an Elder Scrolls game would like if it is as an Isometric video game, like Commandos 1 or 2 or Divinity Original sin and 2,

[feral viper]

Probably like any other Isometric game. Just set in Tamriel.

[abstract arrow]

question

there are 2 collections in the nexus mod n

one is gate to sovengard, the other is constellations 2.0

[feral viper]

That is a statement.

[abstract arrow]

which one do i pick?

[feral viper]

Aaah, now there is the question.

Constellations 2.0.

I say this based on nothing more than Sovrengard being a dump.

I'm not a fan of Astrology in general, so the name Constellations 2.0 also turns me off...

But Sovengard was like the 'We have Valhalla at home' and It turned me off of the name.

[abstract arrow]

well

[eager remnant]

You'll have better success posting in #skyrim-se-mods or #1067467528353370152

[dim reef]

How many provinces can you visit in ESO standard edition?

[feral viper]

But the answer is, technically, all of them.

[velvet wyvern]

Who knows if I can transfer the creations I bought on PS5 to PC?

[copper mulch]

I dont think you should ask that here 🤣 It might not even be possible?

[glad cypress]

I don't think it's possible unfortunately

[acoustic stratus]

I feel like achieving CHIM

[feral viper]

It's really not that useful unless you're an egotistical tool.

[upbeat burrow]

If signing in with the same bethesda account didn't work then nope

[obtuse gyro]

My Xbox says I have 4 billion quests finished 🥲

[dim reef]

Jeremy Soule will be writing music for TES 6, what do you think?

[harsh crown]

Do you have official proof of this claim?

[dim reef]

It's a question

Not claim

Some things just can't be removed. Remove Soul - the series will end after Skyrim

I don't know what Bethesda plans for composers but without Soul it will be a completely different game

And that's a fact. The depth of immersion in the previous parts was largely determined by his music.

[harsh crown]

All we can do is wait for an official statement/post

[dim reef]

I agree, sorry for my phrases but I can't imagine tes without Soul

[harsh crown]

No need to apologize. I understand where you're coming from, and what you mean. In the mean time, I will be keeping an eye out for any information so that we can all keep updated.

[dim reef]

but something strange, Soul has been silent since 2019

[dim reef]

This means that there is a chance that he will be hired, at least a chance

and if they take him, it means the new part has a very big future

Without him, the popularity of the new part is in great question and the situation is clearly not in their favor.

if there is no Jeremy Soule in the sixth part - I will not pay a cent for the sixth part

If we consider TES as an organism, the bones are the quests, factions and equipment. The flesh is the landscapes and scenery. The music is the consciousness, the soul.

I started playing TES many years ago, starting with the classic Oblivion. To be honest, without the experience of open worlds, I did not understand where to go and what to do. I did not understand what an open world was, freedom of action.
Mind you, I had no experience or understanding at all. Then, actually, I stopped playing for a while. I returned to the game half a year later to try again.
And I began to understand how wonderful it is to play in an open world, one of the first things I did was level up my character and visit the arena.
the soundtrack "death knell" was amazing and allowed you to immerse yourself in the atmosphere of these fights. And not only in the arena, running around the world and listening to it, it flowed into your consciousness

and "reign of septims" was a wonderful soundtrack in the lobby which was often played outside the game, causing a desire to play again

Oblivion is cited as an example of how important music is. This applies to both Morrowind and Skyrim

I don't know who's going to end up writing the music, and it would be rude to say that if Jeremy Soule isn't the composer for the new show, I won't buy it, but I'm going to say it anyway. The sound of this show is its music, and no other composer can top it.
I am not a music expert to judge what is good and what is not. But whose music is necessary for the success of the new part - I can.
Even imagining that he won't be the composer in the new part is already a reluctance to play this new part, which hasn't been released yet.

So, the situation is pretty clear. If Jeremy is not the composer, neither I nor many others will buy the new part even for fun. And the new part will cause a wave of negativity from those who wanted him to be the composer (I personally will not be too negative, others most likely will)

And then the probability of failure will be extremely high. The situation is controversial even before the release, many fans are disappointed from the long wait, and if some more moments are removed, I think it is too obvious how unlikely success is (and even more so the possibility that the new part will surpass Skyrim)

For the success of the new part it is necessary:

1. Composer Jeremy Soule
2. High-quality, interesting quests in small quantities (more and more interesting than in Skyrim)
3. More factions (and more interesting quests, the difficulty of obtaining ranks is higher)
4. Better economy (purchase not only houses, but also other expensive objects, so that players do not sit around with hundreds of thousands of gold)
5. Atmospheric province/provinces. Landscapes, Landscape, the game should have completely new colors

And a number of other aspects. But, at least from what I listed, if the quests do not become more interesting and there are not more of them, then the new part of Skyrim will not surpass, including if the economy does not improve. If Soul is not a composer, the uniqueness of the new part is questionable

That is, what I listed here is the minimum necessary to surpass Skyrim.
The rest is a matter of new technologies.

But also consider the following:

1. Known armor networks (Daedric etc., and swords as usual, although this is obvious)
2. More advanced NPC AI than Skyrim
3. Exciting environments (destructible objects, buildings, terrain)
4. Unique aspects of the new province/provinces (new leveling features and new powers, something different from the shout)

Five points, and these four are a number of obvious improvements that need to be made, and a number of things that are better left untouched. Daedric armor sets and the like are the foundation that should be left, and Soul is the composer that can't be removed.

What I described should be included in the formula of a perfect TES 6 in order to surpass Skyrim. Some things should be untouched, and those that need to be touched are also described

It's possible that not everything is covered here, but I think the main aspects are covered. What of this Bethesda will use and what Todd understands as "the ideal TES 6", as he said, I don't know.

If the new part comes out in a raw form, it will not be a surprise, and fans will perceive it absolutely normally. That is, a new part without bugs is generally stupid, bugs are normal. But if the mentioned aspects are not touched or touched only to a small extent, the superiority will be questionable.

And if Skyrim is not surpassed, then it will be a hack job. And since the series is extremely important for the company's success, I doubt that something on the level of Skyrim will come out: either it will be better, or it will be a hack job. Yes, Skyrim is good, but making Skyrim 2.0 for Part 6 is absolutely not an option.

In general, I apologize, I wrote a lot. But I revealed important points

The main thing I learned is that the composer is a way to know in advance whether TES 6 will be the one that surpasses Skyrim. If the upcoming first trailer for that game has Jeremy Soule as the composer and his involvement is revealed, then TES 6 is heading in the right direction and using the right formula. But if they remove that composer, that's a clear sign that the formula is broken.

Why? Because removing this composer would mean removing something important. And if such a step is taken, it means the formula is no longer the same, ideal. And this means Bethesda will continue to cut important points in the formula of the ideal TES 6, which should become better than Skyrim. That's why we're waiting for the trailer and everything will be decided in it.

[glad cypress]

I like to hit bandits with swords and steal their pants

[pulsar root]

Do tell...

[feral viper]

I'm a radical in that I don't actually think Soule's contributions have been fundamentally necessary. He's technically skilled as a composer, yes, but the only GREAT soundtrack he's done for TES was Morrowind.

Oblivion's was just... Not.

And Skyrim's was alright.

If the music is the Soul of the franchise, that soul had a brief flare of life in the early 2000s, and has been on life support since.

I don't necessarily think that's Soule's fault though. His work is still beholden to the director of the game it's self. You can only do so much with the direction you're given.

[foggy dawn]

They'll just throw Inon Zur the job.

[harsh crown]

Please be sure to keep all comments within the guidelines of the #rules

[feral viper]

I guess technically that brief flare would have been from 1997 to 2002... So late 90s, early 2000s.

[foggy dawn]

Which one?

[feral viper]

Because the scores for Battelspire, Redguard and Morrowind were all phenomenal.

Everything else... Eh.

[foggy dawn]

...Which rule?

He himself said he's not involved with the project. What rule is repeating that against?

[harsh crown]

My post was not directed at anyone directly.

[foggy dawn]

Well, you deleted my posts.

I'm not trying to lawyer you I just don't understand what was wrong with what I said. It wasn't even speculation.

[harsh crown]

This channel is for The Elder Scrolls games, not any specific individuals

[foggy dawn]

No discussion TES composers in the TES channel, understood.

[harsh crown]

That's not what I said, but ok.

[glad cypress]

I love all three of those soundtracks ngl, could be nostalgia but I can really get lost in them regardless

[dim reef]

Zur has already done some ES music which sound great. I'm not worried about the music.
https://youtu.be/GG8ktak-ncg?si=FnV4tUiwLy_BQDPI

There are bigger things to look out for which worry me.

[dim reef]

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/store/the-elder-scrolls-iv-oblivion/c5k89tflsv19

On sale for Xbox users right now for the next 2 days for just 2.99$
Tired of Skyrims 2 million glitches and bugs?
Always relying on those Unofficial Patches to save the day? WRONG!
Play the original The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion today!

• No enemies on compass.
• No forcing the crosshair on people. (like in Oblivion Remastered).
• No clairvoyance spell to save the day.

Be on the edge of your seat...and let fear find you again.
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

[feral viper]

Yeah. I don't expect the soundtrack to be like Darktide, where I sometimes forget to play the game because I'm just jamming to the tracks.

Since it's generally been pretty eh, the most engaging the music has really been for years is telling me whether or not I'm in combat. And since we don't have Cliff Racers aggroing from 10 parsecs away anymore, even then it's not really that relevant. I usually just turn it off, of play some other music in the background.

It's gameplay that I think is really important. And while I still maintain that Bethesda has the bones of a great RPG, they need to take the time to properly flesh it out.

[dim reef]

Our music tastes are so drastically different I'd wager there is no point debating this particular part.

But it is true there are bigger things to worry about than the music

[feral viper]

My tastes are pretty diverse. Unless it's country. Hate country.

My issue is more how the music fits with the game, it's style, and it's mood.

[dim reef]

Yeah. We've already gone through that. What i like you dislike and what i dislike you like. Our music preferences are far apart.

[slow loom]

I don't completely hate or like one style of music. It's short sighted and limiting. Your favourite song might be a country song, you just don't know yet because you refused to give it a chance. We also change as we get older and so do our tastes. What you liked as a kid won't be what you like as an adult.

[shell swan]

Yeah, my music taste is "this sounds good" lol. Not a specific genre.

[slow loom]

As an example probably most if not all of us here like John Denver - Take Me Home, Country Road. If only for the soul fact its linked to the Fallout franchise now.

[dim reef]

I personally think 76's cover version of Country Roads is better than Denver's original version

Although i do sometimes run on "this sounds good" energy.
Rn I'm on a classical orchestra fever which is why I'm vibing to Elder Scrolls and Fallout music

[feral viper]

Well, again, I'm not saying, for instance, that Oblivion's tracks are bad.

They are all technically well executed. In another context, they may even be great.

But they suffer from the same problems as basically everything else on Oblivion. They just don't mesh with anything.

Oblivion's art style is whimsical romance. It's musical score is melancholy and nostalgia. It's story is apocalyptic. It's voice acting is... Well, let's just say I feel sorry for those voice actors, because they're all very skilled and they were just given terrible direction.

When we compare this to, say, Jesper Kyd's score for Darktide, and Darktide as a whole, we see the total opposite.

Pretty much everything in that game can be described as Techno-Gothic. That art style, the plot (such that it is), the music, even the voice acting (a mix of modern punk and antiquated gothic legalese).

It presents a cohesive whole.

Skyrim of course does this much better than Oblivion did. But it's still got some disconnect here and there that undermines the overall product.

[dim reef]

I don't think art direction should strictly adhere to a type of music.
For example, I love CoD WaW's music specifically because of how much electronic and synthetic instruments it uses despite it not being the norm for a ww2 setting.

Or how Metro uses guitars and pianos as it's main layer of music because the story and context are about hope even if the art direction is more grim.

[feral viper]

Oh absolutely. A great example of this Soule's best work (IMO). Total Annihilation.

The game is about an apocalyptic, 10,000 year war of machines that has left the galaxy in ruins. It's ALL tech.

But they chose an orchestral soundtrack.

[dim reef]

That's the main reason i love the newer Fallout soundtracks. Usually you don't see orchestral soundtracks in post apocalyptic games but they do.

[feral viper]

There's a difference between the style of the music, and the mood, temperature, and relevance of it.

Again, except for Country. Which is basically the skid marks of music.

[dim reef]

With Elder Scrolls however for me, the music doesn't adhere to any specific norm for the setting. Instead it helps define the setting itself.
Morrowind's flutes, Oblivion's cellos and Skyrim's vocals.
They all define their setting for me.

[feral viper]

To use Oblivion as the example again, because it's the most glaring disconnect in this way...

[dim reef]

But like i said. Personal preference. We ain't going to agree

[feral viper]

It's narrative is that of an apocalyptic invasion from Hell.

But it's music is that if an aging king reminiscing about the glory days, while his kingdom slowly rots from apathy.

[dim reef]

Let's instead move on to what we do agree on

That they need to get the gameplay right

[feral viper]

It's sad, when it should be bombastic. It uses wind and string instruments when it should use percussion. It's Chopin's Etude, when it should be Tchaikovsky's 1812.

But I agree. I think the music is less of a concern than gameplay. Because at least IMO, the games have only found greater success over the years, even with their weaker soundtracks.

Even Morrowind's I don't actually think is THAT Good. Even though it's literally my sleeping music to this day, and I have a deep nostalgic attachment to it.

In any event, you can turn the music off if you don't like it.

You can't turn the gameplay off if you don't like it. At least, not while still playing the game.

[slow loom]

Everyone's a musician until they make a song and it's awful. The great thing about music is we all experience something different when listening to it.

It's easy to say a song should've gone this way but then it wouldn't be the artists vision and instead your own.

TES music is up there with some of the best in all of gaming such as Halo music.

There is a reason that TES music is still relevant and appreciated to this day.

[feral viper]

Nah. TES music is mid.

The franchise is mid pretty much across the board.

What makes it stand apart is it's potential. Unrealised though it may be.

[pulsar root]

I am... not gonna put TES and Halo in terms of music on the same tier. Halo is higher up there(You may feel different about the Non Bungie halo games music) Just my opinion.

[feral viper]

Halo (I flip-flop between CE and 3 in that regard)
Nerevar Rising
Times Scar (Chrono Cross)
Bounty Hunter (Advent Rising)
BFG division
Ooze (Phantasy Star 4)
One Winged Angel
Hellmarch (Red Alert, though 3 is the best)
Disposal Unit (Darktide)
Baba Yetu (originally done for Civ4)

These tracks are in a whole different league, by and large. IMO at least. They capture the feel, emotion and style of their games so amazingly.

I exclude probably my favourite though, Ozar Midrashem, because it's technically not original to Soul Reaver. Despite being perfect for it.

I will say though, despite understanding music theory white well, I have zero musical talent. MAKING music is something very different from understanding music.

Sort of like Poetry. Which I can neither create, nor do I understand.

[dim reef]

Halo 4 has my favorite music from that franchise

Closely followed up by Halo 2's music (both anniversary and original)

I'll put them on the same tier as ES music. Both are goated

[feral viper]

4 was also good.

I'm actually quite forgiving of the 343i games. Less so of Reach. It's like the Oblivion of Halo for me.

[dim reef]

I don't like Reach much either

[feral viper]

Reach was a spit in the face for anyone who had invested in the series outside the games up to that point.

[feral viper]

But anyway, back to more relevant matters

[glad cypress]

I've never really thought about it in this regard, but I see your point now about why you dislike it. I feel like the music fits for me though, it bridges the disconnect between chaos erupting in a idyllic, mostly peaceful province, and the musical middle ground would be something like what we got or close to it. Having upbeat, whimsical music for the downtime, dark, chaotic music for the story events etc. would feel jarring to me instead

There could be some bombastic tracks though, like how you mentioned 1812 overture, which would have been a neat addition

[glad cypress]

I was a heavy novel reader up until 2018, but I also felt like Reach was a culmination of Bungie's efforts to make an engaging Halo story. I feel like had they picked something other than The Fall of Reach to do, and made a new location featuring Noble Team, it would have been exceptional

[feral viper]

If it was another planet, and it was S2s. The existence of S3s with more than one mission under their belt was a direct contradiction of Ghosts of Onyx.

But I digress.

[eager remnant]

Back to Elder Scrolls, folks.

[feral viper]

Yes, indeed.

[glad cypress]

Do you think the HoK coming back as Sheogorath marks a change in how they deal with previous PCs, or is it just a loophole with it being a recurring character anyway? All three prior to them have disappeared, so we'll have to wait and see if the Dragonborn is still alive and kicking in TES6 (offscreen of course) or is sent on a "mysterious journey" like the Nerevarine

[wild pendant]

So when will https://wiki.bethesda.net/Main/Maintenance/ be back up?

[feral viper]

It was an unintended product of past lore and an unconsidered consequence.

Based on what has come out over the years, it was not intended that Sheogorath be interpreted as the HoK

[harsh crown]

As that is a fan made website, I have no idea 😅

[feral viper]

Now, we HAVE been told that their direct gendering of the Nerevarine was a mistake.

Though i don't have that source on hand...

[dim reef]

Martin Septim told me i could have a custom color role and i demand Justice

in the name of him, and his father before him

nothing beats the OG oblivion story, perfect characters, perfect

it sucks every new elder scrolls are different stories, but at the same time i get it.
i would give anything for an oblivion 2

and for SPOILER: ||martin not to die||

the hero kvatch maybe becomes jarl of kvatch (if they wanted to)
martin takes the throne
uhh, necromancy ban is lifted cus Traven was a snowflake
fighters guild becomes less boring
thieves guild ending was perfect
dark brotherhood , i swear their endings always end with SPOILER: ||their own death LMAO||
arena ended perfectly
maybe a few more quests for the blades at the end

so much more potential content....but...i dont like fan-made stuff like from nexusmods etc. has to be lore-friendly etc

there is SO much content in ESO, that i wish it was a REAL elder scrolls game and not that MMO style. Imagine that much stuff man...thats the way to go. close down ESO, cancel or morph elder scrolls 6 into just "The Elder Scrolls" or something of a better title lol , with everything and every location and yah....ull never need to release another elder scrolls game for decades to come

[tardy tiger]

Honestly that's more Sheogorath returning then a player character. At most the player is Sheo's new host and has zero control.

[dim reef]

It's only hinted the HoK may be Sheogorath. No strong confirmation.

[jade plover]

Didn't voice actor of Sheo confirm it on an interview?

[feral viper]

Not that I'm aware of. At least, no one has ever brought it up that I was aware of when I was in the lore community.

If it's happened in the last year though, I wouldn't have heard about it

Still, the general consensus as of a year ago regarding Mantling was still in the camp of 'The Mantle takes precedence'.

The whole schtick with it is, you play Macbeth so well, no one (even the universe it's self) can even tell you weren't MacBeth the whole time.

[dim reef]

Nope. There is no confirmation about it. It's hinted but that's it, there is no strict statement that the HoK did become Sheo

[lyric echo]

Skyrims sheo dialog pretty much implies that tho.

[dim reef]

It hints. Doesn't confirm anything. It's not like Sheo can't know Martin if he's not the HoK

[last trellis]

What is the dawn guard

[feral viper]

Vampire hunters.

[feral viper]

Nah, it just implies he was paying attention during that period. All the Princes probably were

[pulsar root]

Vampire Hunters in the Skyrim DLC. Their main enemy is the Volkair Vampires.

[thorn stratus]

I bought ESO yesterday for $6

Infinite bow ammo is handy

[acoustic stratus]

boutta start playing arena pray for me 🙏

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/ron-godspeed-parks-boys-suck-gif-5433762

[acoustic stratus]

Managed to beat the tutorial dungeon without a tutorial

I'm just too good

[last trellis]

What is chrysamere

[feral viper]

An enchanted greatsword.

[last trellis]

How do I get out the deadlands

Me and farkas have been stuck for 30 minutes

My character is coughing

I think I just picked up a disease from the deadlands

[slow loom]

nobody escapes the deadlands

[wide garnet]

Grey Fox: Funny, no one told me that. * proceeds to steal several artifacts before slipping out of a newly opened oblivion gate *

[last trellis]

I did though

[jade plover]

I will try to find it, that would be crazy if i just made it up and thought its real

Didnt find a video but at least there is a wiki page about it, so im not crazy

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:NewYorker1350/Confirmation_that_the_Hero_of_Kvatch_is_the_Sheogorath_seen_in_Skyrim?utm_source=chatgpt.com

[dim reef]

This is an Unofficial blog made by a random person with no source to back it. I'd take it with a grain of salt

No other site mentions Wes Johnson saying something like that.
Even the fandom wiki itself doesn't link anything like that.

[tardy tiger]

If anything it's just Sheogorath. They never changed they just got a new host.

[jade plover]

But i've seen a video😭 I just cant find it

[dim reef]

Maybe you're mistaking one video for the other? How would Wes Johnson even know something like that. He's not a writer.

And I'm pretty sure Bethesda won't just let a VA talk about lore out in the open like that without their approval.
Tho I am still continuing to dig deeper and see if something exists.

[jade plover]

https://youtu.be/3fWnDxT0cqc?si=F_63PY0SgvMLkInD

Its somewhere here,i will find timecode later

No, sorry, must be in this video

https://youtu.be/BpP92Fi7s_Q?si=nBVb16XLjvWpxN4o

[last trellis]

Are you a vampire?

[jade plover]

I am

[velvet flax]

His from transylvania

[last trellis]

Why is the vampire lord form so chopped

[feral viper]

What does chopped even mean?

[woven aspen]

Heyo, just started on the game and it seems quite nice

[wide garnet]

You mean ‘choppy’, or something else?

[last trellis]

i mean chopped

[slow loom]

As in ready to be cooked.

[feral viper]

So, cannibalism?

[foggy dawn]

Which one?

[last trellis]

No

As in the vampire lord form looks chopped

[livid ingot]

10:48

[sick plover]

Hi everyone 👋

[dim reef]

what the poop...how am i suppose to stream my game without voice channels

i cry now...

[wide garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/theoffice-michaelscott-facepalm-explain-likeimfive-gif-4936321

[last trellis]

why is it so ugly and grotesque

[jade plover]

cool so i was right, he actually said it

[dim reef]

TES VI needs to have a better combat

maybe it will when its released in 200 years

hopefully necromancy still exists in it so people can bring me back from the dead so i can even play it

maybe i should leave a spell tome behind hm..

𝙈𝘼𝙉𝙉𝙄𝙈𝘼𝙍𝘾𝙊....𝙃𝙀𝘼𝙍 𝙈𝙔 𝘾𝘼𝙇𝙇

[nimble pond]

Ah, with Palantir, the Mark of the Todd Howard, shall tell us when
https://media.tenor.com/H7xVpzJTCgoAAAAM/saruman-orb.gif

[dim reef]

o

[livid ingot]

Yeah. I think its very much debatable how much of an authority he is - he is a fan of the games after all. You could say he has insider knowledge, but as a voice actor, he had no knowledge prior to playing Oblivion that Lucien Lachance ||was murdered||. This demonstrates that voice actors work with minimal info. I think its quite plausible that, as someone who both VA'd Sheogorath in Oblivion and played Shivering Isles as a fan, that Wes Johnson just read those lines for Skyrim and came to the same conclusion that nearly everyone else had that had played TES:IV previously.

I think those lines by Sheogorath are chosen fairly well. For people in the know, its an 100% obvious reference to the plot of SI. But its ambiguous enough for plausible deniability by people who "don't like" the idea.

[feral viper]

Well, of course Sheo would know about the events of SI. It's the events not from SI that have long been the fodder for conspiracy.

But the Princes actively watch what's going on in Tamriel anyway. Sheo knowing about a crazy person talking to his mother's severed head as he tries to toppled the Dark Brotherhood is entirely in keeping with Sheo himself. No need to directly link the HoK

[last trellis]

Does my follower need arrows

Do I have to go buy some

[chrome night]

Been playing some Oblivion: Remaster, Skyrim, even Starfield lately. Really makes me crave for ES:VI. 2028? Maybe?

[foggy dawn]

May I suggest something that will fill the void?

[chrome night]

You may…

[feral viper]

They have infinite of basic Iron Arrows. However, if you want them to use higher damage ones, you have to supply them.

[foggy dawn]

https://store.steampowered.com/app/976620/Enderal_Forgotten_Stories_Special_Edition/

Steam

Enderal: Forgotten Stories (Special Edition)

Enderal: Forgotten Stories (Special Edition) is a total conversion mod for Skyrim SE, which is now running on the 64 bit version of the TES V: Skyrim Special Edition. This version benefits heavily from the new rendering engine and features improved lighting effects, smoother image quality and the best possible performance & stability.

Endera…

▶ Play video

It's free if you own Skyrim, it's arguably better than Skyrim in many ways, and it installs seperately of it (so it won't mess with your Skyrim installation/mods/saves or anything).

[hollow sail]

How do u supply them

[foggy dawn]

Trade with them.

[feral viper]

Same way you get them to carry stuff. Just put the arrows in their inventory and they'll use the best arrows they have until they run out

[foggy dawn]

Dump fancy high damage arrows into their inventory, they'll equip and use them.

They also like to equip the fancy enchanted weapons you dump on them to carry, and burn through their charge.

[hollow sail]

Thought they meant oblivion mb

[livid ingot]

I actually watched/listened to a decent video essay about elder scrolls successors the other day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RFfVPfuEDA

Endereal actually shows up in the final chapter

[foggy dawn]

Enderal really impressed me. To the point it made me angry that a company worth a gajillion zillion dollars couldn't have made aspects of Skyrm as good as a team of volunteers made Enderal.

[dim reef]

Idk about that there's plenty of things about Enderal that aren't up to mark. Quest design especially, so many side quests have vague directions that often don't match

It's a good mod but not up to Bethesda's standards

Atleast it's not as bad as Fallout London. Although comparing it to London is doing it injustice, the quality between them is miles apart

[jade plover]

Whats wrong with fallout London? I thought people liked it

[dim reef]

People did i suppose. I didn't. It was so mediocre and unremarkable i could barely finish it

The only thing i remember from it is a godawful cover of 'I don't want to set the world on fire'

[jade plover]

It is just a mod made by fans, i would expect AAA quality from it

[dim reef]

Neither did i but even compared to other fan made mods i found it severely lacking

But i digress. We're straying away from ES

[feral viper]

Maaan, digging into scriptural exegesis has really highlighted just how much poor scholarship is engrained in the TES lore community.

Going all the way back to Morrowind, the drive to force interpretations into the text, allow for nonsense like Partial and Double Fulfilments of Prophecy, and needless reinterpretation of particular prose has become very apparently.

Which both makes me want to get back INTO the lore, and reaffirms my stepping away from it...

Which is a long-winded way of saying...

There is only one Nerevarine. You can't be a partial Nerevarine, a Failed Nerevarine, or a Mini-Nerevarine.

Also, I may or may not have reinstalled Morrowind again.

[pulsar root]

Prophecy Misinterpatation(I know I spelled it wrong but Discord won't spellcheck it) isn't unheard of.

[feral viper]

Well, prophecy isn't real, at least not in the real world, so all prophecies are misinterpreted.

But even in the context of TES, it does happen, yes. And Nibani misinterpreting the Nerevarine Prophecy is one example.

You don't, nor can you, BECOME anything. A prophecy isn't a how-to guide, it's a prediction. They aren't steps to complete, but indicators of what's already there.

[mental cape]

how longs maintenance on eso?

[stark flower]

We don't have an ESO channel here, but we do have a forum. You can find the information your are looking for here.

[dim reef]

I can speak about TES VI for hours. But we know nothing lol

[feral viper]

That's why we generally speak about what we want, or expect, rather than what we know..

[dim reef]

I know something

[feral viper]

We all know little bits. But those ultimately amount to little more than rumours, which aren't allowed here.

So better to work them into conversation in circuitous ways to hide

[timid drum]

Like the circle of which ES game is better and what the best way to play is lmao

[feral viper]

Well, that's not a circle. Every TES game (Not Oblivion) is great in its own way.

https://tenor.com/view/bobsburgers-evil-laugh-louise-lol-gif-8514140

[timid drum]

pft

[dim reef]

Even Blades?

[feral viper]

To be honest, I forgot Blades existed.

[dim reef]

Do you think they will add interfaction reactivity in TES VI

[feral viper]

I do not, no.

[dim reef]

Bad news then

[feral viper]

I would like to be wrong, but I doubt it.

That sort of thing, properly executed anyway, runs counter to their general game design ethos.

Interfaction reactivity limits your freedom to go where you want, as factions will actively reject, or even attack you of you aren't part of their faction. This would impair the ability of the player to go where they want, when they want, and underlines how Bethesda likes to make their game worlds.

[dim reef]

I think Todd should aim for reactivity

[feral viper]

So do I. But I don't think he will.

[glass marlin]

I just want ES6 to have better writing (MQ, guilds, etc) while retaining (or improving) the mechanics of Skyrim or later.

[feral viper]

Well, I think that's a given. While I have problems with the stories explored in both FO4 and Starfield, the are definitely better written than Skyrim or Oblivion.

[dim reef]

They have new lead quest designer (from Morrowind days) maybe he can do better job

TES VI has mix of old talent and fresh talent. It will be something different compared to previous titles if you ask me

[glass marlin]

Nice

[dim reef]

Fallout 4 is the farthest they've gone with that approach by either locking the Institute or Prydwen based on your choices. So they do stray away time to time.

[feral viper]

Even then, it's only towards the end of the story, and the actual impact is... Minimal.

[dim reef]

That's what dissapointed me about Starfield. Instead of building on what 4 did, they just went backwards

Nothing gets locked anymore

Now i won't mind things being open if they actually lead to something. Maybe have the winning faction take over and add some more quests. But there's none of that.

[dim reef]

You don't get access to the Prydwen until you join the BoS tho. So if you don't help them you'll never get access to it throughout the entire story

[feral viper]

Well, Starfield also only really had one quest where you have anything like mutually exclusive factions.

I think FO4 really highlights my disdain for faction selection and mutually exclusive outcomes in general as well...

[dim reef]

It's not perfect but it was a step in the right direction

With Starfield idk if they got too afraid to diverge further or something else but it's like they took no risks

I hope ES6 learns from what worked and what didn't

[feral viper]

They never have before, so I personally don't expect them to start now.

But it would be nice.

[dim reef]

It's a 50/50 chance with them. Far Harbor is their most well executed faction storyline

[inland shale]

What do you mean I can't be Thalmor grand master and Imperial Legate at the same time?

[dim reef]

And right after that Nuka World was one of the worst in terms of faction choices.
It's a complete 50/50 split in chances

No in between. Either they get it right or fumble

I'm hoping they get it right. But ig only time will tell

[feral viper]

The Stormcloaks (ie the traitors) would argue those are the same thing.

[inland shale]

They're not?

[inland shale]

Hope the traitors (redguards) get whats comin to em in TES6 😌 🙃

[midnight stag]

I’m back with a new name

[nimble pond]

Third times the charm

[half igloo]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/136977516320522240/1402113291479814185/image.png?ex=6892bb42&is=689169c2&hm=fc8c8350317c34d922b90fb6c135c29aae59ee85aa319f82e8a97edc2ed14457&

now we know what happened to the DragonBorn in modern times

[last trellis]

Why am I slaving away at some structure all I did was buy a room and sleep

[foggy dawn]

All will be explained.

[last trellis]

Why am I on the other side of the island

What do I do I’m stuck in a death loop

[radiant moss]

Here in his shrine - That they have forgotten

[last trellis]

?

[radiant moss]

were you not talking about the Dragonborn expansion

[last trellis]

Yes

[radiant moss]

then what were you talking about, because that sounds exactly like slaving away at an Elemental Stone in Dragonborn for Miraak lol

[last trellis]

Who is miraak

[radiant moss]

important character for The Elder Scrolls V: Dragonborn.

[feral viper]

Miraak is a whiny man child who didn't do his job. Which, on the plus side, is why we have Skyrim. On the down side, it's also why we have the Septims.

[dim reef]

Miraak is the best ||main villian|| in Skyrim out of the 3

[livid ingot]

Miraak was barely developed. There seems to have been much more going for him at one point but that was cut ✂️

He's better than the vampire for sure though

Makes me think of Mankar Camoran and the lost opportunity in that character. There was basically no effort made to develop him until mere minutes before you kill him.

We should have met him right at the start of the game and interacted sporadically with him (or his kids) throughout the main quest

With Miraak there was areal opportunity to do something interesting. The way he shows up to steal dragon souls from you, that would have been a great chance to learn more about him, get the player to despise him

But like Terical says - release Miraak is just a guy playing hookie from fate

With no clear objective as to why he's causing trouble now

[dim reef]

I had the opposite opinion. I loved Miraak and all his lore. He's definitely one of my favorite ES characters

[livid ingot]

I like the idea of Miraak. He has a pretty cool design

I wish we knew something about him, personality, goals, what-have-you

[jade plover]

Fun fact for you all. Frost spiders in Skyrim are not spiders actually, but solpugas

I can't send a picture for some reason, so someone else should find a picture of solpuga and show everyone

[glass marlin]

Yeah I kinda wish Dragonborn gave more backstory to Miraak other than just "evil Dragonborn."

[stark flower]

Friendly reminder to be respectful

[glass marlin]

ik Tato

[jade plover]

Sad fact now: in eso frost spiders are just usual spiders because (data deleted)

Im respectful now😅

[glass marlin]

Just did a google search. That's interesting. ty for sharing.

Also CouchTato should make another icon of herself as an Elder Scrolls character. XD

[stark flower]

I'm open to fan art submissions.

[feral viper]

Fun fact, camel spiders are infinitely creepier than normal spiders.

[unkempt glen]

Any modders in the chat who can help me with a script I want to make for Oblivion 2006? I have the code, but it won't compile in the TES construction set.

[earnest merlin]

when new elder scrolls? I'm fine with waiting but I think its time. as long as they learned the lessons from fallout 4 and make a world that's a little more solid footing

[eager remnant]

You'll have better success posting in #modding-general or #classic-mods

[jade plover]

Yeah well, they are arachnids but not spiders. The main difference is they have 10 legs instead of 8

[dim reef]

Looks like Bethesda Game Studios has 4 projects

-Unannounced mobile game
-Starfield’s next DLC
-Fallout 76 support
-The Elder Scrolls VI

[jade plover]

Did they announce dlc for starfield? I thought there will be only one

[dim reef]

https://www.standard.co.uk/culture/gaming/starfield-second-expansion-dlc-shattered-space-bethesda-b1165096.html

[jade plover]

What a huge waste of time lol

[jade plover]

Wait, this article was published several months before the release of shattered space. They might have cancelled the second dlc after the failure, because there was no fresh news about it

[dim reef]

We know that there is a separate Lead Quest Designer for Starfield. Other than TES VI

https://www.ign.com/articles/starfield-reportedly-set-for-ps5-release-during-spring-2026-alongside-new-expansion

nothing is official right now but second expansion is possible

[jade plover]

I doubt that anyone would want it, but yes, they can make it

[mint edge]

idk why 76 or SF still gets support

[feral viper]

Because they still have players?

[mint edge]

that's incredibly shocking

[dim reef]

Actually I want them to fix Starfield first to show they still got it. BGS probably wont make something like Cyberpunk 2.0 but still they can make a good expansion

Something like Shivering Isles. 15-20 hours of content

[dim reef]

The total player count for 76 has been steadily increasing by atleast 1 or 2 million each year. Why won't they

[mint edge]

so you're telling me that the console player count is roughly 985,000+

when the pc player count is barely even over 30k

[dim reef]

Seems that way. When the show came out, Bethesda reported the game had 1 mil players on a single day that month even though steam only showed a 30-40k count

Most of that game's player base is on consoles or Microsoft's store (which i doubt is the highest contender so definitely consoles)

[mint edge]

pc player count on the day fallout show released was roughly 75,000~, consoles must be carrying the player count on their backs like its a ruck march

[dim reef]

Right. It was 75k. I got the numbers mixed up. Either way yeah, consoles definitely seem to carry it

[mint edge]

also. do note, the "why is there support" isn't a jab at them. i know they have had their fair share of issues and a dwindling player count is all. as someone who works at another game studio focusing on player retention, it's very much one of those itches in the brain that i just kinda blurt out

i have nothing but love for beth and their installments. want nothing more than their success

[dim reef]

People underestimate Bethesda's star power. Even the middest of their games have sizable fanbases

(Not talking about 76, that's not mid)

[mint edge]

i was in the minority that loved 76

[dim reef]

But work does seem to amping up recently. We may see something ES6 related soon

[mint edge]

our last installment has barely 5k players on the daily so by god do i hope we knock it outta the park in October. also i am excited for anything ES6 related. gimme just a CRUMB i am a fiend

[dim reef]

I would atleast hope a proper name and setting reveal. It's already spent nearly 2 years in early dev. The basics should be done by this point

[mint edge]

absolutely couldn't agree more

[bitter kestrel]

Hi folks, let's bring the conversation back to the Elder Scrolls please

[dim reef]

I need TES VI

[jade plover]

Depends on what kind of support. Bug fixes are always good, but a whole new dlc for 4000 players is crazy

[jade plover]

Well, as far as i know americans use consoles more often than pc

[feral viper]

It's about 50/50 now. But PC has a wider range of genres.

So for RPGs and Shooters, the markets are still largely console focused.

For Strategy games though, they're overwhelmingly PC focused.

[dim reef]

Depends on different games too. Some rpgs have larger fanbases on pc while others consoles

[feral viper]

TES, and likely Bethesda more broadly, owes its continued existence to consoles though.

So it's a reasonable assumption that consoles still make up the majority.

[dim reef]

The trend seems to be everything is slowly moving towards pc

Don't know which category stuff like the steam deck falls under but their popularity is slowly increasing as well

[feral viper]

PC IS just superior. But it takes a little more know how.

[dim reef]

Bethesda is focusing on consoles since oblivion

[feral viper]

Morrowind, really. It's when their partnership with Microsoft began.

[feral viper]

In general, while I do think that consoles are the inferior platform, I don't think they cause any more problems than some other factors with TES.

The dual perspective being the biggest problem.

Slightly related, this new Fatekeeper game A: has better looking warrior druids than basically all of fiction, and B; looks like we may finally have a decent first person melee successor to Dark Messiah of Might and Magic.

[dim reef]

I also want to play Tainted Grail. It looks like AA TES and Emil played it I guess

[feral viper]

I think this is relevant to TES, as it's an example of better done combat.

Because Skyrim is only serviceable. And melee in Bethesda games has only gotten worse since then.

So Bethesda really needs to take examples from others when it comes to TES6, as their own internal approaches have been... Not great.

And while you can get away with that in Fallout and Starfield, melee makes up the bulk of combat behaviours and interactions in TES.

So you can't really slack on it.

I suspect Fatekeeper will be added to my list of games like Condemned, Vermintide, and Dark Messiah, as examples of combat to look to in improving how melee functions and feels in TES.

That said, it does have one advantage TES dos not.

It picked a perspective.

TES commiting to both 1st and 3rd person perspective creates conflicts which need to be considered.

[dim reef]

Bethesda should make combat better in TES VI becose first person combat bar is too high right now

[feral viper]

Absolutely. And Skyrim was their best take at it so far.

And I'm not even sure it could be called a Jump, compared to where the bar is now.

But you do have conversion problems between 1st and 3rd person. The two formats can have different limitations and restrictions.

And it's hard to do both of them at once

[pulsar root]

right...

[visual girder]

I wonder if one day todd Howard decides to make a actual chimer general nerevar indoril

An actuall part of long lost story line

Into modern day Morrowind

Hell plus bring back nedes

[dim reef]

I wish they make something like Morrowind

[jade plover]

In the context of what?

[deft gate]

is this the chat to get help with trying to get my skyrim creations linked to my steam to use my account

[violet lily]

probably better in #skyrim-se-mods

[feral viper]

I'm with Dracula on that question.

Also on combusting in sunlight.

[nimble pond]

A fully-underwater themed Daedric Prince realm would be cool to visit. Maybe partly a deep sea ship graveyard.

[wide garnet]

going to have to overhaul underwater action for that to work.

[dim reef]

Open World Freedom, No Fast Travel, Detailed Environments, Magic and Customization, Deep Lore, Factions, Non-Linear Questing, No Level Scaling, Non-Linear Storytelling

[feral viper]

Eeeh... I wouldn't give it half of those

[pulsar root]

Absolute no fast travel is not reasonable

[dim reef]

They could implement the fast travel system from games like KCD2

Where you get to see a dot move across the map and occasionally random encounters may stop you which you'll have to pass a check to evade

Or they could have a more refined carriage system. Skyrim was supposed to have real time carriages but they couldn't finish it in time

[feral viper]

Morrowind also definitely HAD Fast Travel. It just used point-to-point fast travel rather than generalised fast travel.

Personally, I'm against no fast travel for the simple reason...

If you don't want to use it, don't. Some people don't have all day, and can't spend 30 minutes getting somewhere before they can even DO anything.

Making the game unplayable for them just because you can't exercise self restraint isn't making the game better. It's literally the definition of dumbing it down.

[timid drum]

^

No point in making the game dumber just for your sole enjoyment

[nimble pond]

Would be pretty hilarious if they upgrade the slow-motion system and add things like trail effect to projectiles like spells and arrows. Dodging fireballs lol..

https://tenor.com/bFiEk.gif

And if can't perform dodge maneuvers off objects like a jumping jack using acrobatics, then I don't want the skill. Should be more than just climbing.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-04-2015/Ua8RWC.gif

[feral viper]

I think games like Thief, Mirrors Edge, and Dying Light did show that some more... Dynamic movement options are definitely doable.

[inland shale]

Why is magic in TES games a bit underwhelming? Most spells are a cartoonish poof small fireball go woosh

https://tenor.com/view/dragon's-dogma-2-dd2-bolide-meteor-sorcerer-gif-7814019854763317423

https://tenor.com/view/dragons-dogma-wizard-tornado-action-rpg-rpg-gif-16543812

[pulsar root]

In both instances you're showing they're using their staff and are stuck to using their staff.

[inland shale]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-so-cat-gif-12079821

[wide garnet]

So, those are not good examples to use for what you’re saying.

[inland shale]

Really? You think not using a staff makes the vfx different? 🤡

[pulsar root]

It means the game you were mentioning isn't like Skyrim where you had a choice between regular spellcasting without a staff. In other games you are stuck using a staff.

[inland shale]

That has nothing to do with the spells though, it's a red herring to detract from the fact that the spells don't look impressive

[pulsar root]

Not every spell needs to be fancy, those look like expert spells(In ES terms that is).

[inland shale]

https://tenor.com/view/guiding-bolt-magic-spell-skyrim-gif-20615177

Which look like this, I rest my case

[nimble pond]

Ooh wow. No matter how many times I watch that it never gets old 🤩

[slow loom]

The magic system could definitely be better. The game also came our 14 years ago. So it's a little unfair to compare it to what came out this year. It would be nice to have more spells other than shoot a missile, beam or frontal aoe.

We are probably barking up the wrong tree expecting engaging combat in a TES game. We all know that TES6 will just be Skyrim with better graphics and probably little to no improvement to the combat. It would be a complete overhaul if they wanted to make it good compared to modern standards.

[abstract cairn]

I did this last night with a bow and arrow

That escalated rather quickly… trying to kill a buck and instead violently assaulting his cornholio

[pulsar root]

The first part sure but doesn't mean the very basic types of spells shouldn't go in ES6. Nothing really wrong with fire bolt/lightingbolt/frost bolt. though I think. But

[slow loom]

Of course we still need basic spell types.

[jade plover]

Well, apocrypha is literally a bottom of the ocean

[jade plover]

Every TES and fallout 3-4 has the same open world freedom as morrowind.
Morrowind has fast travel, just limited.
Morrowind doesnt have detailed environment, its 2002 game what are you talking about. Even generic oblivion has a lot more details.
Agree with magic customization. All tes have deep lore, morrowind just introduced more of it because it kind of didnt exist before.
Factions? Clarify please what do you mean by this exactly.
Morrowind doesnt have non linear questing and stroryteling its all very linear, maybe i forgot something, remind me please .
Morrowind definitely has level scaling, but only for animals and daedra. The higher level you are the more dangerous daedra will spawn. And they also will have stronger weapon.
Morrowind has many pros over other tes games, but you really pointed at only one.

[jade plover]

Im not sure about it. Mirrors edge and Dying light are about parkour. Idk where you can do parkour on the elder scrolls, we dont have many buildings there. But i would definitely like to see a spin off placed in just one, but lore sized city.

[slow loom]

Parkour exists in Daggerfall albeit in a pretty basic form.

[dim reef]

Mountains

[glad cypress]

Mountain climbing would be cool yeah

[glad cypress]

I also agree that the current state of cities in the games don't really support it, not tall or dense enough cities to make any real difference. That being said, being able to position yourself on a high point during a fight would be useful, but to have it not be cheesy the NPCs should be able to climb too

[jade plover]

Maybe this opinion is unpopular, but i prefer usual jumping (in this case) because it gives more freedom of movement, than places scripted for jumping

If you have an example of an action game where mounting climbing was done well, please tell me

[glad cypress]

I've never played it, but Legend of Zelda: Breath of The Wild had pretty good climbing mechanics, and various games have copied that same mechanic after the fact

I think the general climbing mechanics of AC and Shadow of Mordor/War, albeit limited to climbing buildings, were pretty nice too. Of course, there's always the chance for innovation too, maybe the right mix of action-rpg and scaling cliffs haven't been found yet

[glad cypress]

I do like the utility of jumping and sideways running up mountains (plus horses) but it just feels a little too janky for me, like I'm just using terrain glitches instead of naturally exploring the environment

[jade plover]

Not sure if its suitable, because climbing mechanics in these games are made for 3rd person view, and, again, tes doesnt have this amout of buildings to make climbing useful.
They can just add grabbing like in dark messiah so you can lift up if cliff is too hight for jump. This would be nice

[glad cypress]

Simple mantling is a good middle ground, it usually enhances most games I've seen it added to at least

[jade plover]

I think they already added it in starfield, didn't they?

[glad cypress]

I completely forgot, but I think they did. It was a nice touch given the increased verticality

[dim reef]

Doesn't need to be scripted. It can be dynamic like Starfield

You can climb anything that's marked as a wedge there which is practically everything

Stairs, buildings, rocks and even invisible walls in some cases

I would say Cyberpunk as well but honestly the climbing is a bit janky there.

But it does still offer a lot of freedom.

[jade plover]

Buildings yes, but not the rocks really. Found a video where guy is trying to climb up the mountin and he only can fly. Character cant grab anything. So to make mounting climbing possible with this system they have to make rocks look kinda like stairs, then it will work, but it wont look nice

[feral viper]

Yeah, basic vaulting, IMO, is the bare minimum.

Beyond that, climbing has been shown to be doable as well.

[feral viper]

That said, based on Ladders, maybe we don't want climbing.

Though all this highlights a major strength of Bethesda games, that covers for a glaring weakness.

Nothing in these games is well developed. But they include so much, it makes up for it.

Combat is superficial beat stick. Magic is superficial shooter mechanics using a finger instead of guns. Stealth is superficial detection behaviours. Dialogue is superficial option selection.

But all combined, they create the feeling of versatility and depth.

Unfortunately, you need to engage with most of them at the same time to get that feeling. If you try to lean on one at a time, their shortcomings become obvious

[inland shale]

I used Dragon's Dogma as an example because all those spells already existed in 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SrIFyfHTpU But yeah it would be nice to have more cool spells, we'll see if they opt for overhaul, people would certainly expect some after waiting so long 🤔

[maiden sand]

I liked a lot the magic system in Dragons Dogma, the second game made it even more beautiful and of course, useful. For the kind of technology we have today i don't see why devs don't do more deep magic gameplay, an integration between the spells, like in Divinity 2, which you can frozen the ground to make enemies fall, cast lightning spells over wet surfaces/enemies to increase damage... nowadays i see this as a basic feature, but most of the games don't do. Imagine you casting an wind spell over an area and then casting a fire one making a tempest to burn enemies in that area... this could fit like a glove in Elder Scrolls...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZwCir5UBKY

In case of someone who don't know about the game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snT7PQ-er6w&t=1s

[inland shale]

Right on! Yeah the magic system is one of the things that shines in DD, you give fun examples as well of magic being more interactive,impactful,environmental instead of simple projectiles, it's the kind of ideas that can help make the combat feel more fluid/alive

Honorable mention of blade&sorcery on how first person magic could work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBJVm1AwcSM

[maiden sand]

I'm tired of the same spell just growing up in damage and size like in Skyrim... i think a lot of this talking with some friends, on how they could be creative by simply looking other games, and Todd is a guy who actually look and play lots of other games, but the designers... Imagine how immersive could be some magic that only applies in determinated conditions, like to make the sand hold up an enemy in the ground in a place like the Alik'r desert, if the games really comes to be in Hammerfell, or roots in forest areas, anyway, magic integrated with specific biomes, that would be nice.

[feral viper]

Yeah, I think that first person is what's really hurting Magic in this case.

In contrast to how I think 3rd person is really hurting melee.

[pulsar root]

I don't want the carbon copy of DD's magic because if I want to use magic I don't want to be Stuck to just being mage and using a staff.

[inland shale]

Again this guy, he probably thinks you need a wizard hat to cast cool spells too

[inland shale]

The last time someone asked on an interview what game Todd was enjoying he said it was Diablo IV, and most of the magic in that game is projectiles and AIO area damage to deal with enemy waves which are not a thing in Bethesda games, so who knows what his takeaways will be from that game haha. Yeah I agree with you, sand could be a great conduit for earth magic for example casting a sandstorm spell and stuff like that

[pulsar root]

That IS the gameplay of Dragon's Dogma. And thats why I don't like it.

[inland shale]

It works in VR, maybe it could be improved in first person with some better animation and vfx for first person 🤔

[slow loom]

This makes me think of games where you can cast ice magic at water and it makes a platform to stand on. Dos2 is a rare example of spells interacting with each other in just about every way possible. Magicka 1 & 2 while a little niche had a very fun but complex casting system.

[feral viper]

I definitely think there's ways to go about it. And we've seen bits and pieces of solutions in other games.

Psykers and Sienna in Fatshark's games for instance make for pretty solid first-person magic.

Magicka is, hands down, the best Magic system in gaming. Bar none.

Except for when Brad uses it, because all he knows how to do is cast Mines.

[slow loom]

I agree, it's hard to beat the magic system in Magicka but it's hard to learn and get good at.

[feral viper]

I always say it somewhat ironically, but I genuinely think that TES's weakest elements are it's Combat, and it's Magic.

Everyone constantly wants deeper dialogue and stories and whatever ... But those are just better writing. You can do that even within the garbage Talking Heads system (though I do think there are better solutions).

The actual melee is paper thing, and Magic has never been in a good place in the series. It's either beat X with a bat until it stops moving, or shoot X with your finger until it stops moving.

[slow loom]

While i don't see the magic system from Magicka transferring 1:1 i can see some of it working. Say enemies drop elemental particles like Ice and Fire. Then you go to a crafting bench and combine them in different ways to create spells. It would be similar to alchemy with some trial and error involved. As the game progresses enemies would drop higher tier particles to craft higher tier spells.

Then you might combine in a catalyst like a Soul Gem or something new to determine the strength or spell type.

[inland shale]

Would you make the loot system class based or would certain enemy types drop elemental particles?

[slow loom]

It would just be another item added to the loot pool. If you are a warrior you can just sell them.

Could be tied to a talent though for the higher tier stuff.

[maiden sand]

Hope they don't get it serious, i play Diablo 4 seasons but nothing in that game can fit in an Elder Scrolls game, i think Bethesda should open a suggestion box for people who have lots of hours in their games, players have to be heard.

[pulsar root]

Diablo 4 has strict classes and the open ended ness of ES classes is something I like about Skyrim. At least more then I did in 2011. lol.

I want to play more D4 but... seasons aren't for me, never have been but thats a off topic tangent.

[maiden sand]

Diablo 4 works well with strict classes and builds because the seasons always have the meta, but also in a game like that you should have specific items too, and this kind of thing i don't thing is a good idea for a game like ES

[inland shale]

They do open suggestion boxes though only after title release, so I guess we pretend TESVI doesn't exist until then 💤

[maiden sand]

They often hear the people at least, they did lots of things in Starfield from the community feedback, and i saw some news their last update have some files mentioning a new way of travel between star systems without loadings, but yet it is a lot of a problematic aproach, because once the game is launched, it's core can't be changed so in the case of a magic system, it will forever be like they did. For that i think some things that are recurrent in the community should be presented alone and before so they can change it if it's the case, it will not be a spoiler of the game story to show the character in a blank room casting magic on enemies... but i know Bethesda well, they will never do it.

[inland shale]

True enough, it's why I raised this question some time back here, that up until Oblivion release the developers would actively participate in the forums to discuss lore and gameplay with its fans, after that there was company restructuring so any feedback taken is usually only after launch, unless the individual devs read here, which if they do they almost never chime in 🧙‍♂️

But then again they may have some in-house beta testers for that, Larian studios for example used early access and their forums to gather feedback from players before launching the full game, and they made many changes based on that.

[pulsar root]

Yeah but I think Bethesda wants to keep things close to them and not spoil things.

[maiden sand]

I got some friends who played this, Larian was very careful with the fans feedback, but if others don't want to show parts of the story of the place where the game is seatled, which is a thing in ES games, they could do like i said, just create minimal spaces with generic textures around to people to test things like combat in general and movimentation, because this is one of the most demanding things from the community, with a good mention to the writing of course, but this part i'm more peaceful about, because Emil don't have the role of writer anymore.

[dim reef]

You can't really Traverse star systems without loading. That's impossible unless you have a nasa super computer. They're likely trying to find ways to mask the loading

[maiden sand]

They should have made a cutscene to hide that since the first day... there's a mod doing it, but they can do, but it will not be fast, if the travel is slower the loading could be made progressively

[dim reef]

That's the funny thing. There are cutscenes but they play separately instead of masking the loading

Really odd design choice

[feral viper]

That summarizes Starfield in general

Not quite to the degree of Oblivion... But it's getting there.

[maiden sand]

This is one of the worst parts of Bethesda, designers, you see, lots of people hate on their engine, but the engine itself is damn good, it just don't have competent people working on it, when a group of modders start to work on something they do wonders even with older versions, so no matter which one, Bethesda designers are incompetent

[dim reef]

It's like for every thing they improved upon there's something they borked up.
Crafting for example, earlier you needed materials + the required perk. Now you need materials + the perk + you have to research it which requires separate materials

Like.... why?

[feral viper]

And the research resets when you jump universes, like all your knowledge goes out the window.

[dim reef]

The whole crafting system is so bizarre.

[feral viper]

Also... Like... Why can't you just buy the mods? It's not like TES, which is a preindustrial society where everything is handmade.

You have mass industry and automation. Just let me buy a sodding scope.

[dim reef]

Yeah. It's supposed to be NG+ so what's the point of taking everything away?

[feral viper]

I also think the Unity, NG+, and the whole narrative thrust thereof is utter bullox, so there's that as well...

But yeah. I definitely do not think Crafting was a step in the right direction there.

For TES, a more Skyrim-meets-FO4 approach would be better, IMO.

I do think the idea of Research has some merit, but as a whole other system rather than an essential component of basic crafting.

[dim reef]

They can use the blueprint system from 76 instead

In fact i think that's what they were aiming for with the research system but they needlessly over complicated it

[feral viper]

Fair fair.

I was thinking more in line with developing your own Spells, Equipment, furniture etc using a more in-depth design system.

[dim reef]

That could work too.

[feral viper]

Gotta draft it, prototype, and then execute. And they all does take a bit of resources first.

[nimble pond]

Bards should be able to lull you to sleep. Kinda like..

https://tenor.com/uFXX.gif

[dim reef]

I hope they have more VAs for the bards this time around

And also make sure their instrument animations don't stop from the slightest of interruptions.
Heck i also wouldn't mind if there's a bard companion who can sing things across the whole game.

[feral viper]

I'd just settle for better songs.

Skyrim's bard music was... Not great.

[dim reef]

Most of it was great. The singers however varied in quality

[feral viper]

It is also possible that I just don't like that sort of music.

It's like... Ye olde Country.

[livid ingot]

It's called Folk

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/spooge-better-call-saul-breaking-bad-david-ury-say-my-name-gif-20274478464757420

More seriously, and pertaining to silly names... learned today that the original creator of the style didn't call it Gothic.

They called it Gloomth

[nimble pond]

Bring back Vigryl!

[spring pasture]

Do you think that they should remaster Morrowind next?

[eager remnant]

No. I fear they will likely gut Morrowind's iconic roleplaying game mechanics (i.e. character-skill-based mechanics) in an attempt to appeal to modern action-oriented gamers.

[spring pasture]

Look at what they did with Oblivion though, I think a good remake by them would be awesome.

[foggy dawn]

Morrowind cannot really be modernized the same way Oblivion was. Some light tweaks to the combat and leveling mechanics managed to make Oblivion feel at worst charmingly dated.

To make Morrowind palatable to anyone except... people who already play Morrowind, you would have to overhaul way too much stuff. It'd be too different to be called a remaster really.

It'd be a remake. Which, people are making for free, actually. In the Skyrim engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJkeWN3_fbA

[spring pasture]

Well I'd want an official remake by Bethesda.

[foggy dawn]

Why's that?

[abstract cairn]

because its their game 😂

[spring pasture]

Spouter.

Anyways, back to the point.

[abstract cairn]

but i agree you Morrowind should be next, teasing it with ESO was kinda not enough and bundle it as a collector's edition box set with Morrowin, Oblivion & Skyrim

[spring pasture]

I don't want Skyrim's engine to recreate something that we have a good basis for with the official Morrowind.

I think with Oblivion's original engine being used as the framework and the core for the remaster but Unreal Engine 5 made it to be the most visually stunning it is now and with the fact that so many things were polished up and updated gameplay is the perfect way to remake or remaster a game from Bethesda.

Use the engine the game was made, upgrade and update several parts of the game, and put in Unreal Engine to make it visually stunning.

[spring pasture]

Ah, well thank you for agreeing with me haha

[abstract cairn]

i mean they came out with a box set for all 5 games that was originals as well make a remastered version

[foggy dawn]

Well, OpenMW and tons of visual mods already exist, if you want an experience that is 100% vanilla (with the option to change some things) but prettier.

[spring pasture]

Honestly, with how dated Morrowind is, I feel like a proper remake would revitalize and make the third installment of the series a better game.

[spring pasture]

Eh, I'll just wait until they remake/remaster Morrowind.

[abstract cairn]

i know mods can be a good thing, but mods cannot replace the game and that feeling that comes with it

however i will call myself out tho because i finally gave in and joined in on modded skyrim and got those feels again now that i got a gaming PC

[spring pasture]

Mods are a good thing, but the official experience feels like a better, more polished package.

[foggy dawn]

I don't think it'll get an official remaster, it would appeal only to a very niche base.