#elder-scrolls-general-chat

1 messages · Page 13 of 1

feral viper
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But, I do still think Skyrim's combat has some major mechanical faults that seriously need to be addressed in order to bring combat forward.

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Specifically... It needs more dynamic controls that actually feel like they're from the last two decades.

For instance, Parrying has existed in melee combat since at least 2001. It's appeared in Thief, Dark Messiah, Halo, even MINECRAFT of all things.

Active Dodging has existed in melee combat since at least 2006. The best and most reactive I've seen is, again, Vermintide/Darktide.

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On top of this, better control over attack types, rather than Skyrim (and most of the industries) Attack Cycling animation would immensely improve the control in combat, and make attack types relevant. Thus opening up plenty of stat options for equipment.

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Of course, Bethesda actually has a control scheme in place to allow that sort of control over attack types... It's just atrocious, and has been since Morrowind.

forest surge
pale walrus
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Maybe Bethesda's experience with FO's combat system (AIM) can serve as a starting point upon which to build. (They have to start somewhere.)

sleek mountain
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step dodge is fine, I think. I mean you can dodge too in ESO. dodge roll kinda silly and it's weird on first person.
don't forget AI enemies, they have to balance between first person and third person too. aggresive AI in first person is nightmare, like they always moving quickly and with multiple enemies against you. it's hard to track, that's why they make it AI bit stupid.

feral viper
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There are definitely concessions that need to be made for the sake of functionality. The actual speed and timing of attacks are generally slowed down significantly to give players the ability to react.

Anyone whose been in a real fight knows... Once you see the attack coming, it's usually too late to do anything about it.

pale walrus
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Maybe bethesda should hire the Hellish Quart guy. If anyone can make a realistic melee combat system for them, it's him.

feral viper
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See, that's the catch. I don't think Realism is necessarily the right direction.

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It needs to be realistic enough to be believable... But also simple enough for casual players, allow for sufficient depth and complexity for hardcore players, AND incorporate sufficient 'Fantasy' elements.

Which is no small task.

waxen spruce
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I just want the animations to look even slightly skillful. Like skyrim is just mindlessly flailing or swinging a sword like a bat. There needs to make it seem like the character at least kinda looks like they know what they are doing. Like the katana animations for starfield. Hope that swing delay between the 3 hit combo goes away tho

sleek mountain
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what if weapon animation become faster and sharper depend on character skill, feel like your character become more proficience with their related skill, maybe on casting magic and bow got faster too

nimble pond
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Melee could have different disciplines/stances to study under with different visuals for a more personal feel of customability, examples: knight, martial arts, brute.

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Bow could have disciplines like marksman or trickshot/quick fire. Crossbow single-shot or 3-arrow burst fire for applying many debuffs/poisons quicker. Harpoon for single-shot or multiple.

feral viper
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I'm generally more focused on basic function over flashy nuances for the time being...

I've also become increasingly Anti Automatic Skill Bonuses over the years.

feral viper
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Part of the inherent beauty of the Perk driven model is it allows you to refine your progress your way, rather than being locked into a progression track and railroaded... So having automatic bonuses to Skills takes away from that, slipping back into the Railroading of previous models.

feral viper
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Though it's something that can also be handled in more subtle ways than applying explicit bonuses. For instance, the games already divide skills into tiers through Novice, Apprentice, Expert and Master.

Simply applying different motion and animation variations that convey a greater degree of comfort and confidence through those level tiers could make it FEEL better, without actually offering any mechanical benefit.

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Of course, I should clarify when it comes to combat in general...

I don't particularly like Wild Hunt, Arkham, Assassin's Creed, and similar combat systems. I can tolerate them, but I don't really enjoy them.

But I really don't like Souls-Like combat systems. They're like Country Music to me, I just don't get the appeal. They're not fun, they're not dynamic, they're not engaging. They're the gaming equivalent of chewing sawdust.

So I am definitely biased regarding the approaches I think have value.

pale walrus
primal sandal
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Dark Messiah did combat pretty fun

feral viper
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Indeed

nimble pond
# feral viper Part of the inherent beauty of the Perk driven model is it allows you to refine ...

I was thinking more segmented. You see, you keep the roleplaying freedom aspect, but at the same time you are offering expanding choice to really make it feel more personal and tailored to the player's creativity as opposed to just having choice with zero meaning to those choices bc they all round up to being quite the same effect regardless of the choice(s) you made.

Here you could decide if you want to do melee or not, weapon choice, and on top of a discipline to study under, whether you're going for anything from a ninja-like character to a juggernaut brute and so on.. You're not locked to them and can switch freely in the middle of the game if you so wish. You can even master them all if you want to. All this does is simply give your player creations more personality and further satisfaction with in-game mechanics and visuals.

nimble pond
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I think a modder already did it maybe, but I also like the idea of having a soul crystal, instead of having to be manually recharged with new souls, the soul you assign to it recharges over time. Of course such a device would come with some sort of cost.

nimble pond
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Need more controller button segmentation as well to open up room for more mechanics. Like simply holding down the shift key or a side button on a controller opens up a whole other window of assignable controls. Mix that with things like wheels and tabs. Trying to stray from contextual commands as the way it is implemented in games ends up being more limiting than it was meant to be.

pale walrus
nimble pond
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Oh no wouldn't have to worry about that, keyboard and mouse is actually much easier to work with, it's traditional controllers that are typically the more limited of the bunch

forest surge
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I’ve played games with different types of combats from Dark Souls, Assassins Creed, among other things, Elder Scrolls having Assassins Creed or Arkham Game Levels of Combat is really not that baffling considering how skilled some individuals in The Elder Scrolls World are to be fighting like that.

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Especially if we are talking Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild or Morag Tong it pretty much lines up that they would be having various types of maneuvering and striking.

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And even then I’d prefer that be more into Spin-off Territory to actually show that since the mainline games are usually to stilted combat wise to do combo like moves.

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Realistic Combat in Elder Scrolls is fine and all but sometimes you have to add a certain level of unrealistic to make combat enjoyable.

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Like having played Assassins Creed myself for years it’s something I cannot help but compare it to the certain factions in TES

zinc temple
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Happy 10E 2024 ig

primal sandal
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🗿

magic flame
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Alright Bethesda, it's the new year, where our fixed Skyrim at 😂 (this is a joke don't jump me please lol)

pale walrus
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I have a feeling this forum will explode once an ES6 trailer is released

eager remnant
# pale walrus I have a feeling this forum will explode once an ES6 trailer is released

I'm not looking forward to that. I think I developed PTSD from moderating this Discord during the recent maintenance. Every one of Bethesda's games has been greeted with howls of outrage on their forums or Discord upon its release and I'm sure TES VI will be no different. The very idea of a new game is emnough to give me moderation-induced nightmares. 🙂

feral viper
forest surge
feral viper
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Oh absolutely.

But... Even Fallout 4 was pretty heavily panned, if not outright mocked, on release. And is still meme'd to hell and back.

Add to that, there have been some... Decisions, made in PR that has left BGS looking very poor in the many, many online circles.

I can't actually think of anywhere I've seen online in the last 3 months defending BGS.

forest surge
feral viper
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So, 3 years from now, when (or if) they are ready to show off TES6 again, there may not be much interest in them at all.

sleek mountain
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is it true that starfield closer to daggerfall ? 🤔

forest surge
feral viper
feral viper
# forest surge I wonder if Microsoft will get involved with how Starfield panned out at Launch,...

If anything, I think the PR problems would be more likely to get them involved, rather than the state of the game.

But ultimately it won't matter at the point of launch. Because consumer opinion tends to shift on a dime. Make a good game, and people will hear about it, and your sins will quickly be forgiven.

However, until that point, I remain somewhat skeptical of how much a new trailer would actually increase traffic around here.

forest surge
feral viper
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Yeah. 3 consecutive disappointments (and a Mobile game, which in the West is a disappointment simply by merit of existing) is unlikely to support a lot of buzz regarding a new announcement.

Combine that with the growing perception of Bethesda as a company stuck in the past...

The reaction to the trailer will likely just be more "It Just Works" memes on Reddit and Facebook, and a bunch of YouTube Echo chamber personalities talking about how Microsoft kills Bethesda.

And not a whole lot of action on here.

sleek mountain
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people take the memes too seriously 😂

forest surge
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Which is another problem with essentially saying, “It doesn’t feel like something different.”

feral viper
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Indeed.

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But as I said. Make a GOOD game, and all that negativity will quickly be forgotten.

Which is why I try to personally focus more on how I think they can improve, rather than constantly ragging on their failings.

Because, while a very long list, point all that stuff out doesn't actually HELP them fix any of it.

forest surge
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You need more than one writer to

feral viper
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You can get away with just one... But they would have to be very, VERY good.

And I'm not sure there's any in the industry good enough for that.

forest surge
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Scope is limited only by your imagination in the end, and while one person can have imagination that imagination may not go far in specific other directions.

feral viper
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Yeah. You also need to be able to handle diverse sorts of writing. Writing a STORY is one thing, but if you can't write characters, or dialogue? That story can quickly fall apart.

forest surge
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Now some people alone are amazing at it, but sometimes that’s not always the case.

feral viper
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Yeah. Like Matteo. I'm sure he was supposed to be endearing and earnest... But holy sweet hells, he is the most insufferable character Bethesda has ever written. He's worse than Season 1 Wesley Crusher, and it's infuriating having to talk to him.

forest surge
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I don’t mind Matteo, I think ultimately what I’m sad about is those other Constellation characters not having there own major backstories.

feral viper
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Oh man, I would rather 1000 adoring fans over that single 'Maybe it's Angels!' brown nosing choir boy..

pale walrus
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Surprised that FO4 was panned. Granted, I enjoyed both FO3 and FONV more. But I still had fun with FO4, and parts of it were quite impressive (the Glowing Sea freaked me out.) And the modular approach to armor in FO4 had merit. Also, I liked building settlements and both building and upgrading equipment. Yes, both were flawed. But I still enjoyed myself.

feral viper
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I honestly played FO4 more than any previous Fallout game. I love it.

But it was not positively recieved.

In fact, I think the criticism about its size may have directly contributed to Starfield being TOO big...

forest surge
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Positive review scores ultimately don’t hold enough weight with some people in the end.

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Which is kind of a telling tale that something reviewed positively may not necessarily appeal to someone even when it appeals to many others.

feral viper
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A lot of people don't trust review scores from media outlets anymore.

forest surge
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They don’t and yet I find it funny when a person on youtube uploading there review is seen differently than the mainstream media outlets, since they could also review it the same and enjoy it themselves.

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Which is why I personally never take stock in the idea that Media Outlets are necessarily doing fake reviews, otherwise it wouldn’t add up.

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Some games just have this more universal appeal than others and that comes down to many factors in the end, whether or not it matters to the individual in question is another.

feral viper
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Indeed. I haven't personally put much stock on critic scored since the early 2000s, when I realised that I just liked different things than most of the criticis.

sleek mountain
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I still prefer open factions to join in next TES, at least for access most master level skill trainers. like how i can rolepay as magic swordman if I can't join both guilds. locked one in morrowind still justified though.

feral viper
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Alright, enough beating around the bush. Pointing out problems with Combat is meaningless without also offering some insight into potential solutions.

So here we go.

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First off, simplify controls.

Get rid of the system TES has used since Morrowind. It's not good. It's never been good. It's time to lay that failed experiment to rest.

Stick with something clear, concise, and controllable. Tap=Thrust, Hold=Swing. Two basic attacks. You can call them Light and Heavy if you must, but the core behaviour is the same.

And it applies to ALL weapons. So there's no learning the attack cycles of a Dwarven Mace vs an Ebony Longsword. It's Thrust and Swing for everything.

This opens up mechanical options for later.

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Second movement. Just take Vermintide's model. You can move in any direction using WASD or the Left Stick, same as normal. However, holding A/Space (Jump) behaves differently depending on the direction.

No more jumping up in the air and then steering in a direction. Forward is a leap forward. Left or Right is a quickstep dodge in that direction. Back is a quickstep backwards.

Dodge mechanic, done.

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Then, you introduce Techniques.

Effectively, these are Martial Powers used in exactly the same way as any other power. You use the Alt/Bumper to activate the assigned Technique. These can conclude Kick, Power Attack, Paralysing Strike etc.

PC will of course have an advantage here, with the number keys allowing for far more hotkeyed Techniques, but you can also use a Hold function to the bumpers to bring up a slow-time radial menu, increasing functionality on Consoles as well.

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Controlled combat options make it so you make the attack you want, when you want, opening up stat and strategic options.

Proper dodge controls allow for better active mitigation options and better gameplay loops.

And assigning Techniques to the same inputs as Powers and Spells has the benefit of making it so Martial builds still make use of all the input functions.

So this as a basis would at least bring combat into the post 2015 era. And proper expansion and complementation of it would bring it into the current decade.

quartz summit
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Elder Scrolls 6, should take Skyrim’s perk trees and change them up. This is based on my understanding of how the starfield perks actually work. Starfield didn’t really have 82 skills, but rather 5 skills with a total of 328 perks, while Skyrim had 18 skills with 251 perks, and Fallout 4 had 7 skills with 275 perks, so I could see them moving towards an average of these, reducing the total number of skills and expanding perks. I see Bethesda making it 15 skills with 300-350 perks, averaging 20-25 perks in each tree.

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Enchanting:
This should be removed as a skill. The mage skills should just be the 5 schools of magic. Enchanting could then be a major reward for finishing the mage’s guild quest like, like you become a leading member and get a player home like usual but then the real reward if your own arcane enchanter. The level on enchantments would then be entirely determined by the soul stone used: petty give 5% boost, lesser 10%, Common 20%, greater 35%, and Grand 50%. This would make finishing that quest like feel extremely rewarding. For players that don’t go into the mages guild there could be merchant enchanters in a few of the major cities, that give enchantments up to the common 20% boost with one major merchant that gives up to the greater 35% boost. Then non mages aren’t locked out of the benefits of enchanting, but are locked out of the highest tier enchantments, and give them something to spend massive amounts of gold on.

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Illusion:
Illusion could include distraction spells like the “throw voice” shout or sending a decoy to walk and distract guards, and expand a bit on the fear, riot, calm, and rally spells, they could also include persuasion boosting spells you can cast on your self for a general boost or on specific NPC’s for greater effect.
Conjuration:
Conjuration needs to expand the variety of summons, and allow you to have multiple sooner, like having two as an apprentice perk, and three as an expert, with the master perks increasing the effectiveness of your summons instead of quantity, like buffing armor, duration, and damage for summons, with the master spells giving you summons with unique powers, like an atronach that focuses on healing the caster, or a daedroth with absorb health attacks.
Destruction:
Destruction could bring back poison spells, which Bethesda kinda already did with miraak’s staff and the lurker’s attacks, just let players do that and that’s all the perk expansion needed for destruction. The spells added could include touch spells, sacrificing range for power, like making the “Ice form” shout a touch spell.
Restoration:
Restoration needs some bolstering spells and a bolstering perk branch, so players can be the party healer with their companions, and lets them buff their companions as well making you more active in a support role, these could come as AOE spells meaning you need to be close to your companions to help, putting the player in danger, or targeted spells to buff individuals.

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Alteration:
Alteration needs more transformation spells and related perks. Transmute ore was great as in let you increase profit from iron and silver mining but give us more transformation spells, and you could even give them a combat application, with like polymorphing low level enemies into goats and chickens, the perks would then increase the level of enemies that can be effected and let you command the transformed enemies, like an expert spell could transform an enemy into a mercenary you can order to fight for you, and these kinds of spells would be balanced to only work on enemies up to like 30 or something so you can’t one shot bosses by turning them into chickens.
Block, light armor and heavy armor:
Block should also be removed as a skill. Block could be divided into light and heavy armor. The heavy armor shield perks could decrease stagger and incoming damage, making the pure heavy armor build an absolute juggernaut, brushing off damage. The light armor shield perks would focus on bashing, really use the shield as a secondary weapon, since a light armor build would want to get hit as little as possible so using the shield traditionally wouldn’t exactly fit with the otherwise speed-oriented play. this would focus on the shield doing stun damage or staggering the target creating openings for the payer to attack.

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Two Handed:
Two handed really only needs one expansion, spears! Giving two handed 4 weapon types would expand the tree and give players more variety. Spears would focus on range and piercing damage, so perks could increase ignored armor, since real strategy with spears is to stab the unarmored spots, like arm pits neck and groin. You could also lock power attacks behind perks, making standard power attacks just have a X1.25 damage multiplier, while the perk power attacks give you other benefits. The spear would have a lunge, that moves you forward and does even more piercing damage, Great swords could have a spin attack for crowd control that does massive damage to all enemies in range, Battle axes could have an executioner style attack that does massive bleed damage, and War hammers could do a low blow to the legs that gives a guaranteed stun condition, if they bring stun damage in like the EM damage in starfield, leaving opponents in a downed state. So, each weapon has its specialty, spears have best range and piercing damage, great swords have second best range and sweep damage, Battle axes have third range and bleed damage, War hammers would have stagger or stun damage with a low range.
One Handed:
One handed should have the “fist-weapons”. One handed having swords, axes, maces, and now the fist-weapons would again expand payer options and make a boxer build benefit from an actual skill tree. The fist-weapons would have extremely short range and be extremely fast, making a brawler one of the ways to get extreme DPS. Swords, axes and maces would function again almost identical to their two-handed counterparts. You could also start adding unique weapons such as a club, which would be a pure stun damage version of a mace, benefiting from the same perks.

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Archery:
Archery could be expanded by including a crafting branch. This branch of perks would allow archers to craft different types of specialty arrows. Stun arrows would work well for a pacifist build, they could also make fire, shock, frost, acid, or explosive arrows using this branch in the perk tree.
Pickpocket and Sneak:
Pickpocketing doesn’t need to be its own perk tree. Pick pocket could be the third branch in the sneak tree along with stealth and damage branches it already has. This would get rid of some of pickpockets more convenience based perks like the extra pockets, which would be countered if backpacks are in the game from the start. This would also let you move the poisoner perk over with the damage boosting sneak perks. Daggers should still rely on the sneak skill for increasing damage in my opinion, just boost then to x5 and x20 for daggers to make them competitive with the other forms of damage in the game.
Smithing Alchemy and Speech:
Smithing is fine as it is. The expansion of different craftable items will allow for more variety in smithing perks. The only possible added tree could be a homesteading skill branch, like integrating the Hearthfire DLC into the smithing perk tree, like letting a master smith build a fortress and a novice build a shack, kinda bringing the outpost and settlement system into elder scrolls as a part of an established perk tree. I’m not much of a fan of this one but I could see them trying it. Alchemy is another like smithing I can see being used to bring in the outpost and settlement system to elder scrolls. This would focus on the farming and resource generation aspects, and again like with smithing I’m not the biggest fan of the possible addition. Speech would be the other skill used to bring in these systems, with the population management and setting up trade lines to other forts you make, or to merchants you do quests for, that kinda thing.

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Lockpicking:
Lockpicking could really be expanded by increasing the variety in things to lockpick. They could create new lockpick minigames for dwemer ruins, and dwemer constructs, like hacking robots in fallout, and new puzzles for redguard tombs. But other than expanding the puzzles, jerry-rigging dwemer constructs using lockpicking is the only real expansion to lockpicking likely

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So overall, ES6 would have 5 Mage skill: Illusion, Conjuration, Destruction, Restoration, and Alteration: 5 Warrior skills: Smithing, Heavy Armor, One-Handed, Two-Handed, and Archery: and 5 Stealth skills: Speech, Alchemy, Sneak, Lockpicking, and Light Armor.

pale walrus
feral fossil
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I miss mysticism, I'd love to see it brought back as something like: Detect Life, Detect Undead, Dispel Magic, Banish, Silence (prevent spell casting), Reflect, Teleport (short distances like dishonored's blink), and Transport (teleport someone else a short distance).

I'd like to see alteration get levitate back aswell.

feral viper
# quartz summit So overall, ES6 would have 5 Mage skill: Illusion, Conjuration, Destruction, Res...

I'm of a similar mind in some ways, radically different in others.

For instance, I'd make it more...

Mage: Alteration, Illusion, Destruction, Restoration, Conjuration, Mysticism, Enchanting, and MAYBE Necromancy.

Warrior: 1 Handed Weapons, 2 Handed Weapons, Armour, Block, Hand to Hand, Craftsmanship, MAYBE Husbandry.

Thief: Marksman, Alchemy, Speechcraft, legerdemain (Lockpick and Pickpocket combined) Athletics, Sneak, and MAYBE Forgery.

The Maybe options pertain to ideas that would be interesting, but require rather significant supporting systems to make work.

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Each Skill, then, would be divided into a minimum of 2 Perk Lines, allowing you to specialise your use to the skill.

For instance, 1-Handed Weapon would have lines for: Swords, Axes, Blunt Weapons, and Daggers.

Speechcraft would have: Persuade, Manipulate, Mercantile, and Command.

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Test trees I've done with this idea have accommodated easily up to 300 Perks, and that was being rather stingy. If you want to be more liberal, you could in principle handle thousands.

Perks in one specialty should never restrict your ability to purchase perks in another of course. The number of Perks it's self should serve as the primary specialisation driver.

If people want to invest 200+ hours in leveling so they can master everything, they should be allowed to.

elfin marten
feral viper
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It's sort of a combination of Alchemy, Conjuration, Restoration, and Mysticism.

feral viper
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But all the schools are arbitrary anyway.

sleek mountain
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which better for TES game still to use skills based on 3 archetype ( warrior, mage, thief ) like skyrim or they should expand it more? 🤔

quartz summit
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@feral viper I agree that expanding the number of skills would be fantastic and I'd love to see how they can implement athletics back in, but the reason I don't think they will necessarily do that is the balancing issue with all these skills. How would they make athletics not a gate-keeping skill locking players out of other pathways through dungeons or nothing but a utility skill like gymnastics was in starfield. How would they balance necromancy with conjuration if they split them back apart. How do they nerf enchanting so it isn't the absolutely essential skill for late game like it was in skyrim if mages now have so many more spells from different schools they want to be able to cast in combat but still have their limited Magicka pool. I do agree bringing old and new skills in would be the best but it would certainly be a lot more work for the devs to balance. I do like though how you simplify light and heavy armor into one and the same with lockpick and pickpocket.

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@sleek mountain I'm not sure if I see a fourth set of skills really, unless they do like a merchant set which would take things like smiting, speech, and alchemy, then add some other like homesteading skills or something. So my better would be on keeping to the warrior, mage, thief set up

feral viper
feral viper
# quartz summit <@1072646734435602525> I agree that expanding the number of skills would be fant...

I think they key, ultimately is to focus on gameplay activities, rather than raw checks.

Athletics, for instance, is divided into 3 branches. Conditioning (running and swimming) Acrobatics (jumping/landing and dodging) and Climbing.

You can DO all of these things at base. Investing in the skill simply makes them easier, or makes you better at them.

Climbing for instance, can consume Stamina as you climb. So the rate of Stamina Consumption will dictate how high you can climb safely. Investing perks in the Climbing branch of Athletics would increase that height, but you can certainly TRY to climb anything.

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Balance in Bethesda games has always been ... Well I'll be nice and say 'Attempted'. But designing a game around the assumption that you're absolute rubbish at balance and trying to get ahead of that, doesn't really help.

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Better to just design a varied and engaging system, and let the balance be rubbish.

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I mean... Do you think Baldur's Gate 3 is a balanced game? Absolutely not. You can do all kinds of insanely broken nonsense in that game. And if you play it optimised, even the hardest difficulty is a cakewalk.

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But it's a single player open world RPG. Who cares about balance?

last dew
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I just want to beat the living Oblivion out of the Thalmor. I wish their story arc concludes in TES6.

forest surge
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Would be to soon really, better it be TESVII

last dew
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Why TES7? The Thalmor are cartoonishly annoying and makes me want to punch them all into Oblivion.

forest surge
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Because only having them for two games would be to short imo.

last dew
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I just want the Second Great War. I don't want the Thalmor to win in the end. I want to actually mortally wound them and cripple their organization without mods and fanfiction in Skyrim mods. They appeared in Skyrim, Blades, and Legends. And I want to know the actual conclusion of the Skyrim Civil War. Not end up with Dragonbreak, I want the Imperials to win. Please, for the love of Talos, let me actually take the real fight to the Thalmor. Let me at least cripple their leadership if they're not truly defeated in TES6, let them suffer and actually feal weak.

forest surge
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Again, don’t expect to get what you want is all I’m saying for TESVI

last dew
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I hate it when I type a rant about why I don't like frustrating stories and only want to beat and kill snotty and condescending NPCs, they only delete it because I used a profanity. I only said loveable A hole when describing Neloth and how he's the exception of people I would want to kill. Great, thanks a lot for deleting my paragraph. Sorry for my potty mouth. smh

pale walrus
pale walrus
pale walrus
# feral viper I think the 3 Archetypes are fine, as the various combinations of them can effec...

Then again, it might be fun being the baddest-azz grocer of all time, going into a crypt armed with nothing but a paper bag filled with tomatoes.....brings this to mind, in fact: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWCBOsJr-w

YouTube
Caio Badner
Monty Python - Self-Defense Against Fruit

from Monty Python's Flying Circus
Season 1 - Episode 04 - Owl Stretching Time
Recorded 21-09-69, Aired 26-10-69

I'm slowly uploading the entire Flying Circus series... Got any requests?

▶ Play video
feral viper
last dew
pale walrus
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I agree. Summerset for TES7. Which should release sometime in the next millenium.

feral viper
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Thru also aren't really caryoonishly evil. Unless you buy into the silly 'End the World' nonsense.

Personally, I don't want to see the Thalmor go away for at least 4 more games.

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Giving them a proper defeat in TES6 would be fine though. You don't need to remove a narrative threat to actually give them a bloody nose.

pale walrus
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For necromancy: make it 'expensive.' In other words: a mage decides to specialize in necromancy, which will hardly make him popular at social occasions. As he learns his first spell....Mannimarco appears. M tells him "OK, you get this first spell for free. But for every climb up the perk tree from now on, there's a price you have to pay to me." These 'payments' inexorably drive the mage towards profound evil for every step up the tree they take. There are also big consequences - people begin to learn about this mage, eventually shunning him and perhaps even turning hostile. Also, certain Aedra and Daedra take a personal interest in this mage, either for or against him, with consequences following. You could do a LOT with this skill tree story-wise.

feral viper
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Mechanically, I think two things could make Necromancy distinct enough to warrant its inclusion as its own skill.

Wider uses of Soul Gems, including replenishing your own Magicka and certain types of spells. And a Build-a-Bear undead minion using Fallout 4s Automaton system.

eager remnant
#

Certain mods, like Path Of Sorcery and Ordinator, have necromancy perk lines that allow us to create our own skeleton minions by assembling the bones of defeated foes, along with soul gems and various salts. In both mods this is a ritual performed at special altars. A high-level necromancer can assemble a small army of skeletons, and create more powerful versions of skeleton minions. I find this to be a very engaging and satisfying approach. You have to work hard to reach that level of power, and when you do, it feels like a genuine accomplishment. I think a system like this would be a great foundation to build upon for necromancy in TES VI.

pale walrus
#

Imagine being a necromancer in ES6. You walk into a town and want to have your way with the place. So you stroll over to the local graveyard, revive all the corpses and launch an immediate attack. Could be quite a skillset.

tawdry mural
#

Late response, but I would also like to crush the Thalmor, and I genuinely do not believe for a second there will ever be an Elder Scrolls 7

forest surge
tawdry mural
# forest surge Nobody thought we would get a GTA VI Either and look what happened lol

I had full confidence in GTA 6. Rockstar is not afraid to take a giant potentially financially devastating risk(in regards to the new writers and economic state of the work environment currently) but it just seems like Bethesda hadn't even thought ES6 through in any capacity before announcing it and from the interviews with Todd and former writers they seem like they want to put out one last good one and close the scrolls as it were

forest surge
tawdry mural
forest surge
#

Honestly I think the current issue plaguing Bethesda is they seem afraid to offend people. Even for a game that’s Mature

#

There’s more to it than that besides the aging game design but it’s been something Starfield made more evident that needs to change

tawdry mural
forest surge
#

Rockstar besides removing transphobic NPC Comments in GTA Online, ultimately is still wanting to go for at least the raw, expletive ideal violence that put them on the map, and really it’s kind of odd that they have shown and even Mortal Kombat have shown that Audiences want more maturity in there games.

eager remnant
forest surge
tawdry mural
tawdry mural
forest surge
#

I mean I think after playing Starfield, which I do enjoy while recognizing it’s flaws, for some reason not many people are cursing and the Astral Lounge has dancers in these odd Blue Suits, which for what’s considered a pleasure lounge… is odd…

#

That’s a concern of mine for TESVI, that they are just moving away from these things that add into a mature setting

tawdry mural
#

I mean, depending on where 6 takes place it could be the most metal ES game to date. I lowkey would like to see High Rock, but I know there are not a lot of other Breton fans out there

eager remnant
#

This isn't a new development. Bethesda has avoided nudity since the 90's. The exotic daners in Desele's House of Earthly Delights in Morrowind wore underwear.

forest surge
tawdry mural
rugged steeple
#

The target audience is well over the age of maturity considering everyone who played skyrim as a child, is into adulthood. It’ll be very upsetting to see if they scale everything that makes a M rated game an M rated game. I was a little disappointed with how starfield seemed to scale things back a little.

forest surge
#

But again, Bethesda shouldn’t be against this type of thing, it’s more common now than ever and people just want the settings to have more maturity.

forest surge
tawdry mural
forest surge
#

Make a different version of the game really if it’s such an issue and just give the other fans a more uncensored version, but that’s probably easier said than done.

tawdry mural
faint perch
#

It's not censored if you never try to place it in there in the first place. And TBF I think the only Bethesda game with nudity in it was Arena. With Daggerfall they got more serious with the games and focused more on what we know as Bethesda games now.

tawdry mural
feral viper
#

Generally speaking though, I don't think either are necessary. Dismemberment isn't needed to convey visceral combat, and nudity... Honestly I don't think adds anything to the game at all.

#

Both are really investments of time and effort that aren't actually beneficial to the end product.

At least in this case. Ultra violence can be great fun, but tends to fit better either in darkly comedic games (Fallout) or in brutally action-centric games (Mortal Kombat of Doom).

TES is neither. So I'd really rather they just put the work into something more useful.

feral viper
forest surge
#

The Spandex is just so weird when I look at it.

feral viper
#

I think it's supposed to look a little ridiculous. I suspect the goal was less... Make a realistic high end night club, and more make an homage to classic Sci-Fi.

It's deliberately a mix of classic Battle Star Galactica, Star Wars Prequels, and soulless corporate branding.

And in that regard, it fits really well.

But it also looks dumb as hell.

#

Then again, so did the disco dancers in Battlestar Galactica, so par for the course there.

#

Like, maybe I'm just old, but when I walked into the Astral Lounge, all I saw where the Tucanna Singers in the Battlestar pilot. And that CAN'T be accidental.

spare anchor
#

They kinda reminded me of the singer from Fifth Element, just with less tentacles

feral viper
#

Yeah. I think it's important to remember too... The Astral Lounge isn't a classy gentleman's Club. It's a dressed up dive rich people do drugs in.

feral viper
#

Overall point being... You don't need nudity to accomplish... Well, anything really.

You do however need animations that don't look like dong.

forest surge
faint perch
feral viper
#

Still, point remains. There's plenty of reasons NOT to include nudity, and precious few reasons to include it.

Plenty of better ways to approach maturity in a game than just the lowest brow display of genitals for their own sake.

sleek mountain
#

welp, just reminder that next TES gameplay overhaul wouldn't be that complex as BGS will prioritize the casual players so it's probably gonna be barebone as usual.

feral viper
#

Casual friendly, and lacking complexity, are not synonymous.

#

That's the sort of 2006 thinking that Bethesda doesn't seem to be able to get away from though, so... So it may be a valid concern.

tribal hornet
#

As much I may get flak for this, but I want crafting/smithing etc in Elder Scrolls 6 to be like ESO.

#

Which that would be amazing and can be considered to be "cannon".

feral viper
#

I think there's value in taking inspiration from it... But I also think it's pretty bare bones and could be vastly better

#

I did snag the idea of Solvents for Alchemy in my experimental concept though...

tribal hornet
velvet heath
#

Fellas, I dunno what to ask here for y'all but I'mma try anyways.

What do you think of Arena?

forest surge
#

It’s the beginning of what would later form Elder Scrolls as we know it

sleek mountain
#

arena is funny tho, the game supposedly about gladiator arena fights with quests as filler, but the quests become more interesting than arena itself.

feral viper
#

D&D was originally literally just about dungeon crawls to power up heroes who were the leaders of a tabletop war game, as a way of killing time when too few people were available for big battles.

So, you know. Things change and what not.n

velvet heath
#

Fellas, do y'all think Daggerfall should be remastered in the Creation Engine? Not like Skygerfall but a proper remaster of Daggerfall?

feral viper
#

Oh god no. I don't even think it'd be possible in Creation.

#

And I'm against Remasters on principal

eager remnant
sleek mountain
forest surge
feral viper
#

It is not.

pale walrus
feral viper
#

The problem with revisiting the idea of the Warp In The West is...

Based on the in-game sources, it wasn't non-linear time. Because non-linear time wouldn't function the way indicated. Rather, it was a breakdown of Causality, and trying to explore that as a concept is... Well, functionally impossible.

Better to just ignore the entire nonsense and leave it is a brief historical event with no deeper investigation.

feral viper
#

Though that's sorta symptomatic of some of Bethesda's deeper writing issues. They just fundamentally lack the ability to execute on such high-concept ideas. Or, at least, they've demonstrated such.

I'd rather they stick with simpler narrative underpinnings until they manage to get a good footing. Don't push the high-concept stuff, less it end with the same sort of wet fart as Fallout 4 or Starfield.

pale walrus
# feral viper The problem with revisiting the idea of the Warp In The West is... Based on the...

Wait - that's not what I mean. Sorry - what I'm getting at is this: after the Warp, there were 4 main political entities in the Iliac Bay region, Mannimarco became the God of Worms (some people have the strangest ambitions, don't they? 😉 ) and there were some new kings and queens around. What happened next? That would be worth exploring, because as all of us have seen, the denizens of Tamriel have a real talent in turning their lives into chaos, misery and ruin. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if at least one of them started pursuing the idea of finding out where Zurin Arctus, the Numidium, the Mantella and the Tiber Septim totem went so they could get them all back and use them for further shenanigans. Barring that, one or more of these potentates might look for an alternative source of power, again with the objective of 'stirring the pot.'

forest surge
#

Arnold Schwarzenegger, do you guys think he would be a Nord in a Live Action Elder Scrolls?

minor mesa
#

Does anyone know if Bethesda have fixed that glitch on Skyrim with female vampires and the eyeliner? Sometimes, when you load in as a vampire and you are playing as a female, you get the "burnt face" glitch, which is apparently caused by having eyeliner on.

I play on Xbox btw.

feral viper
pale walrus
forest surge
pale walrus
velvet heath
forest surge
#

Yyahl! His yells make me laugh.

Also no, Keith David as a Redguard.

velvet heath
#

Keith David be the Nord, arnold be the redguard.
Reason?
It just (does not) work

feral viper
velvet heath
#

Fellas, what is the BEST Elder Scrolls Game, according to your opinion?

forest surge
#

ESO, amount of Worldbuilding and Lore is just something that wows me.

feral viper
#

Morrowind.

Followed closely by ESO.

Morrowind edges it out for me, simply because... Despite its age, I still prefer it gameplay wise to ESO.

forest surge
pale walrus
#

not Battlespire? (j/k)

eager remnant
#

My favorite is Morrowind. My second favorite is Skyrim. My third favorite is Elder Scrolls Online.

hidden herald
#

My favorite is ESO, I'm looking forward to what they are announcing soon™️.
Already know what is coming 🙂

steel glade
#

Hello everyone, this is Mr. New Vegas coming to you with another question.

On today's list for you people...What is the worst Elder Scrolls Game in your eyes?

faint perch
#

Probably Battlespire.

eager remnant
#

For me it's a tie between Arena and Oblivion.

stuck minnow
#

Yo game pass needs to release on ps5, then you can play elder scrolls 6 when it releases

hidden herald
#

That's on Sony or the courts to decide, and is above what we generally should discuss in this discord.

pale walrus
#

Easily Oblivion. Bland, uninspired, soporific.

wide garnet
pale walrus
feral viper
faint perch
#

Clearly ya'll have never played Battlespire.

feral viper
#

Battlespire has arguably the best intro theme, great ambiance, and some of the coolest lore introductions outside of Morrowind and ESO.

It's far, far above Oblivion.

faint perch
#

Lore? Now I know you haven't played Battlespire.

feral viper
#

Battlespire introduced the Soul Cairn, Nymics, reforming Daedra, and many other elements which remain crucial to the setting.

#

It, and Redguard, were part of major rewrite which developed and established the Elder Scrolls setting we know today. Doing far more of the heavy lifting for that than Morrowind did, despite TES3 getting all the credit.

#

Oblivion, IMO, added nothing if value in any way. So by default it would be far below even the mobile games like Shadowkey and Dawnstar.

faint perch
#

I know, I'm just harshing on Battlespire. It was a linear dungeon crawler. No gold, no shops, fixed enemies and loot. The co-op wasn't the best, but still impressive that fans have kept it alive. I wanted a more RPG experiance than it was.

feral viper
#

Oh, it was definitely a different kind of game, to be sure.

faint perch
#

I preferred Redguard to Battlespire. Even if it was more of a point-and-click adventure.

#

But after Morrowind, Oblivion just didn't innovate as much. Loved the story still.

#

Man, what kind of heated arguments have ya'll been having in this channel that slowmode is set to a minute?

feral viper
#

Not a clue. I suspect it was something related to Starfield, as it was 30 seconds before that release.

#

But I was too busy PLAYING Starfield for about 2 weeks to actually frequent here, and clearly missed the inciting incidents.

spare anchor
faint perch
#

Just wanted all of us to enjoy a warm glass of "be quiet" eh?

spare anchor
sleek mountain
steel glade
#

Hello again, this is Mr. New Vegas again to bring you wonderful people another question.

#

I think you'll like this one... Were the old Elder Scroll games harder, or perhaps scarier compared to the newer ones?

pale walrus
#

Scarier? No. Harder? Yes. I actually found the beginning of Skyrim to be quite frightening. There were other events in Skyrim that were also very scary. Example: the first encounter with Giants.

eager remnant
#

The older games had their scary moments but probably the scariest, for me, was when Alduin interrupts our execution by landing on that tower. The moment when he looks directly at us has to be the most frightening thing I've seen in an Elder Scrolls game. I think they really did an excellent job modelling and animating Dragons in that game. They are fearsome-looking creatures, even at a distance.

feral viper
#

The first time you go through it, the opening of Skyrim is definitely the most tense sequence the franchise has ever had.

feral viper
#

Though, in general I've found that scary moments are harder to artificially create, and have more impact when the circumstances of gameplay create them organically.

For instance, the two most memorable, and scary, moments I can remember in 30 years of gaming actually game from regular encounters. One from Vermintide, one from Skyrim

#

In Vermintide, my friends and I had just cranked the difficulty to Legend, and were running Horn of Magnus. In it, there's a section of town just up from the docks, with a long street flanked by houses and alley ways ending in an open plaza before you enter the Barracks.

We'd run the level dozens of times, knew the layout, knew the defensible points, knew where the hordes could spawn from.

So, when we heard Stormvermin marching up from the barracks, we knew where to hide. The amount of Stormvermin increases with difficulty, so we knew it was better to avoid them rather than try to fight them. 3 of us hunkered down in an alley, but one of the team was looking for items when we heard them, and was in the other side of the main street in one of the houses.

And we crouched there, for what felt like eons, as this long column of Stormvermin marched past. Row, after row, after row... The whole time worrying a horde was going to spawn while we stood still.

And then, across the street, two skaven slaves rounded the corner and went into the house our buddy was in. The three of us in the alley held our breath, hoping the fight wouldn't trigger the Stormvermin.

It didn't and they passed, carrying in down the road before all scurrying up a wall and marching off to despawn.

Tensest non-fight I've ever had in a game.

#

For Skyrim... I was running an ENB which exaggerated lighting effects and darkness, as well as fog effects. So crypts and caves were much darker, and somewhat eerie anyway.

It was the crypt that's been taken over by a necromancer, who is on a revenge kick because the Legion cremated her husband's body instead of sending it home to her intact. I'd done the dungeon half a dozen times, knew the story and everything, nothing really to surprise me.

Then, as I'm creeping through the tunnels, there's whisps in the mist. Drifting around and into the darkness. Then creaking and hissing.

Then out of the blackness around me, glowing blue pairs of dots moving. In an instant, I had forgotten everything I knew about the dungeon, and all I could think was 'What the hell is that!'.

It was just Draugr, of course. But the first corpse shambling out of the darkness with glowing eyes legitimately made me swear in surprise.

No hand crafted moment in any TES game, or really any other game for that matter, put my heart in my throat the same way.

#

Closest would probably be the first true Dahaka encounter in Prince of Persia: Warrior Within. And that fear ends pretty quick. Since he insta-kills you when he catches you, and the checkpoint is right before he attacks. So you just die, and reset with none of the surprise.

pale walrus
#

This reminds me: in Bleak Falls Barrow, there's a Word Wall guarded by an entombed leveled Draugr at the end. In my first playthrough, when that Draugr popped out of his crypt, it absolutely made me jump out of my skin. I ran away and hid.

livid ingot
feral viper
#

And that's sorta the problem. A scary or tense moment is really only impactful the first time, if at all. So it really loses the weight in subsequent playthroughs.

If you want to go that route, you need an emergent gameplay dynamic which can naturally create those sorts of environments on the fly. Changes in lighting, enemy types, natural responses and encounters which allow even familiar places to become unsettling and suspenseful.

Like hiding in the gutters from 60 Stormvermin as they march up a very familiar street.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Yeah. Games I really ENJOY, i play through many times.

The big 3 for me, are Quest for Glory (the whole series) Shining Force 1 & 2, and Phantasy Star 4. I play through them all once a year. Ok, well, technically that's 8 games...

But for most games... Once is enough. Especially given I tend to be pathologically the nice guy, and almost always come out of a game with the best possible ending and no desire to go back and just make worse decisions.

forest surge
short crater
#

Does bethesda look at the chat here for suggestions?

spare plaza
#

💯

pale walrus
pale walrus
hidden herald
#

Suggestions for BGS titles, yes, suggestions for ESO specifically, not likely, there is communication but if you want to get through to ZOS you'd be better off using their official forums.
Also, we are likely to get more Colovian and Bosmer lore this year with the upcoming chapter, they just sent out teasers.

pale walrus
#

Not sure if I truly understand the cultural and historical differences between the Nibenese and the Colovians. The Bosmer are a turnoff, to be honest - their obsession with the Green Pact (along with all the extreme choices involved) and their cannibalism (if true) are a turnoff, along with their 'Wild Hunt' susceptibilities.

forest surge
forest surge
soft geyser
#

Anyone have any spare Skincharger style pages on Xbox? I have none 🫣

hidden herald
#

No trading allowed on this discord. I'd recommend looking for community run discords for ESO instead if looking for something.

novel roost
#

I'm doing the in the shadows quest and I am casting detect life and can't find the assassin in dragon reach

nimble pond
nimble pond
nimble pond
nimble pond
nimble pond
feral viper
forest surge
#

The next Chapter reveal is Jan 18, I’m excited

wide garnet
forest surge
#

Never! XD

wide garnet
hidden herald
#

Skingrad, and thus West Weald confirmed publicly. Heavily teased to be Spellcrafting this year.
https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/editor/x7/jdkwz03ha0su.png
Collection of the teaser glass fragments sent out to influencers.
In clockwise order from the top:
Skingrad, Y'ffre, Mephala's Crown, Dibella, Hermaeus Mora, Y'ffre, Eye of Magnus for Mage's Guild, Y'ffre, either Twin Lamps or Order of the Lamp that protects the Mage's Guild, Dibella, Aylied Tree of Life/Salieche Aylieds, Y'ffre.
Center involves Necrom Ending Spoiler, and Fargrave.
I think it is very likely we will learn about or even visit Falinesti, but we have to wait and see.
PSA: This is only publicly available information.

forest surge
#

Wood Elf Fans have wanted that for a long time, I’d be very happy for them

#

Sai Sahan and Lyris Titanborn hinted to going to Skingrad back in The Reach, would be nice to see them

hidden herald
forest surge
#

It is the 10th Anniversary

feral viper
#

Spell crafting has always been... Not great in TES. So it'll be interesting to see ESOs take on it.

forest surge
#

Wood Elf Fans have waited 10 Years for something more when you think about it

feral viper
#

Considering the base game Bosmer, I have zero interest in seeing Falinesti butchered as well.

#

I may be pleasantly surprised in the end. But my expectations are low.

forest surge
#

Well… I should state that Many Bosmer fans love the Lore of the Base game, so I wouldn’t say butchered as that feels unfair to how they feel.

feral viper
#

It is my opinion, but yes. That does not make it an objective fact.

#

ESO's take on the Bosmer took them from my second favourite culture, to just above Nords.

Because no matter what anyone does, no one seems to be able make Nords interesting.

forest surge
#

I mean ESO did bring in a cleverwoman for Greymoore so there is that, but it may still be what is allowed to be done with a race vs what isn’t. I will say Wood Elves did have the Base Game Treatment and not the DLC Treatment.

#

The devs are pretty aware the forests of Valenwood is not as diverse as it could have been, something they explored more for Dungeons like Lair of Marselokk among other things.

feral viper
#

It's more a deeper conceptual issue. They copped out and didn't embrace the magic of the concept, relegating it to religious observances and superstition.

But that's a general problem with TES across the board. The people in charge seem afraid of Magic, doubling down on the 'mundane' in a setting that is inherently magical.

#

And on the whole, the setting and the franchise suffers for that.

forest surge
#

Falinesti seems to be that more Magical component of the Wood Elves

feral viper
#

The whole thing should have been. But instead of 'What would a forest people, bound by a divine contract and unable to use plants, look like?' they instead just... Crammed in a bunch of loopholes so they never had to actually deal with that question.

forest surge
#

But again I think part of it may be more on Bethesda’s end then ZOS necessarily as they tend to explore more magical elements, or at least want to.

feral viper
#

Oh, I entirely blame Bethesda, based on their work since Morrowind. They've largely abandoned High Concept design, and instead embraced clear Trope-ism. While most evidence in TES, this is even clear in Fallout and Starfield.

And it has not served them well.

forest surge
#

Although I do think the Green Pact would probably have some Wood Elves who dislike the Loopholes and would just rather not harm greenery in general

#

Falinesti Wood Elves may differ heavily for all we know in how they view the Green Pact

feral viper
#

I hope so.

#

As this point, all I want from a Valenwood game is Y'ffre coming back to smite the Bosmer for their disregard of the rules, and force them to obey their contract.

forest surge
#

Like I said I think the devs 10 Years ago look back on there work

feral viper
#

Turning all Spinners into Ooze in the process.

forest surge
#

For me I’m just happy that the world continues to grow.

#

As Azandar once said “I am a scholar, dammit!”

#

You can’t win everyone over sadly

forest surge
feral viper
#

Oh, there absolutely are. But there are also Catholics who don't eat shellfish.

My issue has never been with a broader range of observances, but rather with the total lack of any meaningful weight behind the Pact.

It's a Divine Contract, and the only time it even 'does' anything, it's just Spriggans acting exactly like we'd expect Spriggans to act.

#

Why do the Dragonfired ACTUALLY work, and provide tangible effected while the Green Pact is about as binding as the 10 Commandments?

forest surge
#

Wood Elves and Colovians had fought in the past haven’t they?

hidden herald
feral viper
#

And there are more interesting and creative ways to create ideological nuance within a very real Divine Pact than just relegating it to religious Dogma.

For instance, it only applies to the plants of Valenwood. So, imports aren't binding. Some Bosmer are more strict, and extend the abstinence to ALL plant products, while others gleefully import wood and vegetables as a show of wealth and prestige.

forest surge
#

Base game lore has it’s Iffyness, it wasn’t the same supervised lore we have now.

feral viper
#

But, back to work.

forest surge
pale walrus
#

Isn't valenwood the province where there's a city built into a giant walking tree, that tree being one of the Towers? Have they shown that in ESO yet?

forest surge
pale walrus
# forest surge Isn’t that Falinesti?

I don't know. Let me look it up.....Yes. Reading UESP now. Wow, this tree is quite complex. And something of an environmental catastrophe (apparently wood elves don't believe in recycling and simply throw their garbage to the ground. Ick.)

forest surge
#

Ah wait, it’s the Elden Root Tree

#

Well one of two cities built from the Giant Tree that we see in Elden Root.

dusk heron
#

I still can't decide if I should play ESO or not

gloomy anchor
dusk heron
# gloomy anchor Why wouldnt you!

Well, I'm not much of an online player. And it's...its been so long since it came out, am I still able to experience the full story from the beginning?

gloomy anchor
#

Sure. I can't really argue for online playing since I only play online games, but I think its a blast.

pale walrus
# dusk heron I still can't decide if I should play ESO or not

Think of it this way: you could hold your breath until ES6 releases. Or you could get your 'fix' of ES right now. To be candid, I don't like ESO (everyone please do not pillory me, if you're enjoying it, more power to you.) I found ESO to have an interface, graphics, play style and general world architecture that was not to my liking. But you might react to it quite differently. Maybe watch some YT vids first to make up your mind.

dusk heron
#

But which one? Maybe ill go back to Oblivion...that was my first.

eager remnant
# dusk heron Well, I'm not much of an online player. And it's...its been so long since it cam...

ESO is one of my top three Elder Scrolls games and it is in my top five favorite games of all time. I'm basically a single-player gamer and that is how I play ESO. I never group up or participate in raids or anything like that. I go about my business and treat other players as though they are NPCs with unpredictable AI. As far as story goes, the stories are all still there. They haven't disappeared. You can play them in the order they were released or in any order you please...exactly like a single-player Elder Scrolls game.

dusk heron
#

My problem playing any Elder Scrolls game is coming up with a character

nimble pond
# eager remnant ESO is one of my top three Elder Scrolls games and it is in my top five favorite...

Pretend Sheo has taken over reality and drove all the townsfolk.. ("other players") to insanity of bunny-hopping and other mischiefs..

On another note, they shoulda in a past game let Sheo mess with your game settings (your perception/reality) temporarily during a battle (restoring it back afterwards of course) or even just thru the game itself instead of the settings, confuse what you are used to or have come to expect, seeing things that aren't really there, altering the player's in-game reality basically. Sorta a past MGS Mantis moment..

On a completly separate note that just spurred from the previous one.. it would be kinda fun to mess with if say like your make your perception stat really low in fallout.. thus you sometimes see things that aren't there or if your strength is really low you might be more prone to random limb injuries or illnesses while transversing the wasteland. Maybe something similar could be done for Skyrim to where if a skill gets so grotesquely low... that these wacky side-effects start happening. Spells going off in your hand or not having the effect on enemies it's supposed to have. Speechcraft so low that people lose the ability to understand you entirely as you can only mutter gibberish and all the books words are gibberish cause you can't read either (you could truly do the barbarian roleplay haha). Sorta of a spin on the "wacky wasteland" perk. Doesn't have to be all negative effects or even positive for that matter, but just wacky and for fun.

feral viper
#

That all sounds good in concept, but in execution it would be incredibly difficult to pull off.

#

The few games I've seen attempt it, honestly, pretty solidly failed in that attempt. As much as the sycophants may say otherwise.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Indeed. Wonder if we'll see a young vampire nobleman

forest surge
#

Don’t remember his name perse but I did like him

feral viper
#

Cassildor? Hassildor? Something dor

forest surge
#

If he is there he likely isn’t a count yet, however even then I don’t think people knew he was a Vampire in Oblivion.

#

By people I mean the common folk

feral viper
#

Yeah, he managed to keep it secret. So if he's around, he's likely not the Count.

#

Or, at least, goes by a different name.

forest surge
#

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Janus_Hassildor

Oblivion:Janus Hassildor

Janus Hassildor, an Imperial noble, is the Count of Skingrad. If you talk to the locals, they will mention that he is rarely seen in public. Most people in Skingrad seem to believe that Count Hassildor is simply a bit crowd shy, but upon meeting him, the true reason is evidenced by his gaunt face, pronounced cheekbones, and fierce red eyes: the ...

forest surge
# feral viper Or, at least, goes by a different name.

"More than 50 years ago, my wife Rona and I were both turned into vampires. While I came to embrace the changes in myself, she did not. She hated what she had become, and refused to feed to keep herself healthy. She eventually slipped into a coma from which she has not awoken. My trusted servants have cared for her all this time, but I wish for her to at last find peace. The cure is for her."

Well it looks like we can’t see him then, at best maybe an ancestor with the same last name.

feral viper
#

Boooo

#

He was one of the few interesting characters in Oblivion.

forest surge
#

I mean yeah but he wasn’t a Vampire for that long, still just gotta keep out for that last name, Hassildor.

feral viper
#

Assuming the County hasn't changed hands in the previous 800 years.

#

Which, really, would be almost a given if it followed any sort of historical precedence. I'm not sure there's any County or Duchy which remained in the same family for more than 300 years...

forest surge
feral viper
#

Counties typically hve a single mid level noble house (the Count) and several smaller noble houses (typically barons) under them.

forest surge
#

So then the Hassildors may be the lower family by this time, only to later take the higher position.

feral viper
#

Indeed.

forest surge
#

Theory could be the Family involved in the higher position may be the enemy and as a result of there actions, The Hassildors are elevated.

#

But that’s if the Hassildors aren’t still the Number 1 Family this far back in Skingrad’s history

feral viper
#

It will depend largely on what they decide to do, and how... Closely the decide to adhere to feudal hierarchies.

hidden herald
feral viper
#

Which are basically non existent in Oblivion, so...

hidden herald
#

I can say 100% that Skingrad is in the next chapter. And I mean 100%.

forest surge
feral viper
forest surge
hidden herald
feral viper
#

I know, I'm just joking.

forest surge
#

Skingrad is nice and all, I love Oblivion Map Nostalgia, but man I wanna see Sutch for the first time already. XD

#

What is close to Skingrad that’s from Oblivion?

#

Sutch is to far from Skingrad so no chance of seeing that yet.

feral viper
#

Kvatch, really... Not a whole lot around it.

#

Think there's an Ayleid ruin near...

forest surge
#

Hmm… maybe getting quite a few familiar Oblivion Dungeons that’s for sure.

#

The comparisons will be there when the chap releases

#

It’s always lovely when a new chap released in a past game location because then you’ll see the video’s and images side by side

#

I vaguely remember Skingrads layout

feral viper
#

Basically split in two by a dingey little ditch. Shops on one side, residences and the cathedral on the other.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Nah, nostalgia is square bases.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Well, it is literal. The old Warhammer Fantasy used square bases. And The Old World is bringing them back

forest surge
#

Oooooooh

feral viper
#

Cleaning my High Elves and waiting for the release so I can figure out how many points I gave...

And listening to MrSamuelStreamer's Elder Kings III playthrough.

fallen sluice
#

chat does a single mf live in valenwood

feral viper
#

No. No one lives in Valenwood.

#

They all only own timeshares there, and cycle in and out regularly.

livid ingot
#

Valenwood
Vale-in-wood
Vale = valley
Bosmer women are certified valley girls

wide garnet
livid ingot
#

🤭

feral viper
#

Reminds me of the 'Drow talk with Australian accents, because they come from down under' one.

wide garnet
feral viper
#

My bad jokes are the reason I should not have kids. The universe could not handle dad jokes that bad.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Not gonna lie. Futurama's commitment to that bit was comedic gold.

forest surge
#

Your listening to that Kanye guy? I hear he spits hot fire.

Kid: Who is that guy?

Son: My dad…

feral viper
#

Lol

#

Anywho, something a bit more constructive...

Alchemy!

#

Alchemy in TES has always rubbed me the wrong way. It's more like a child mixing potions out of different shampoos in the bathtub, than... Well... Alchemy. The precursor to basically the entirety of modern science.

It lacks precision, control, refinement... Is got the window dressing if Alchemy (Bottles and alembics and bubbling colourful liquids) but none of the qualities of it.

#

At the same time... It's got a solid enough conceptual foundation that you could BUILD a good Alchemy system out of it.

#

To do this, I propose three things.

Potency. Solvents. Distillation.

#

Potency is a pretty simple concept. Different ingredients have different potencies in their qualities. What's Restore Health is less magically potent than Daedra Heart's, for instance.

The inclusion of Potency would give you more direct control over how powerful a potion is, also making it far more predictable and easily related to the player. And better relation of information means more decision making ability for the player.

#

Solvents are the mediums that serve as the behavioural base of a concoction. Different Solvents cause your end product to behave differently. Alcohols are fast acting potions, Waters are slower acting ones. Ethers are long lasting elixers. Tars serve as the basis of poisons. Oils are used to make grenades.

This sort of approach would open up a few other options as well, but most importantly it allows the player control over the type of potion they make. No more mixing ingredients and coming out with a Poison instead of a Potion, you pick the Solvent at the start and it dictates that up front.

#

And finally, Distillation.

Most simply, this would allow you to combine like Potencies to create higher potencies. Refinement of materials to increase their functional value is a core part of Alchemy, and this would also help with ingredient management. No more having 5 different Restore Health ingredients, you can just combine them all into a more potent Restore Health distillation and use that.

hidden herald
forest surge
#

So Order of The Lamp which has been mentioned in Lore, played a Pivotal Role in the final showdown between Mannimarco and Vanus.

#

Skingrads Logo, Hermaeus Mora…

forest surge
pale walrus
#

@feral viper Very much like your ideas about improving alchemy. Though I enjoyed it in Skyrim, it was a bit too simple. You gather all the ingredients you can find, then start combining them randomly in groups of three. The more you do it, the more potions you discover and the more you level up your skill. Also, you can sell excess potions. So it was fun, but your way is much more interesting.

pale walrus
night violet
#

My brother sent me an image of his roommates cat staring at him today. Was tagged:

"No one ever expects the Khajitti Inquisition!"

feral viper
feral viper
hallow dirge
#

I think that as a side project while working on TES6, Bethesda should do a Daggerfall Remake, possibly even an Arena one too. But using Starfields game engine.

#

I think Starfields procedural generation would cross over well to Daggerfall where a large part of the world and many of the dungeons were also procedural. It would give the game a very similar feel to the original but with the benefit of modern graphics, controls and UI.

#

Though as a remake it could also include new featuers or build on and improve on existing ones from before, such as ships and housing. Starfields space combat system could be modified to even add a type of ship navigation and ship vs ship combat.

feral viper
#

That wouldn't be a side project, that would be an immense undertaking that would require the total commitment of the studio and push back TES6 by years.

hidden herald
#

In general they need more staff if they want any more side projects, they already have a ton on their plates across their studios.

feral viper
#

Especially given Bethesda's size. As of 2023... It's still not even a quarter of the size of CDPR in 2015. Meaning four times as many people made Wild Hunt, as Starfield.

#

That just doesn't allow for the manpower to really do much in the way of significant side projects.

pale walrus
#

My own personal view is that I would prefer Bethesda focus on new titles that explore new provinces. I also like the idea of new content being created for older games, even going back to ES3. But I'd like to see that content come out of the Creation Club and maybe from other studios. Quality control will be an important consideration for both. But maybe Bethesda can spell out certain rules about content and code testing that would guide these other creators, and also offer business licensing terms that make it economically attractive for the creators to make the effort. Bethesda could also reserve the right to reject certain ideas because they are too disruptive to their future plans. An example - say some person or studio approaches Bethesda wanting to develop a DLC for skyrim that allows the dragonborn to go to....eastern High Rock. Bethesda or Zenimax might have plans for that region in the near future and might not want another title 'messing things up' there. Or maybe neither of them have any plans over the next 5-10 years, at which point they might give the go-ahead, provided this person/developer properly runs the gauntlet of development rules regarding content and testing. Just an idea. Probably hard to implement, but if there's a way, it could produce interesting results.

feral viper
#

Ultimately, I'm personally indifferent regarding Creation Club Content and what not.

Though I'm actively against Remakes on sheer principle.

#

The bigger issue, of course, is that a remake isn't just some side project that can be whipped off while working on some larger project.

Procedural Generation doesn't work the way people often think. You can't just hit a button and generate an environment. You have to program the generation conditions first, establish the asset library that populates them, set limiters to prevent too many recurring instances within certain parameters, etc.

Procedural Generation takes a LOT of work to get off the ground, and isn't something you can just swap from one game to another Willy nilly. Starfield's procedural generation system would be absolutely useless for generating Daggerfall's map.

On top of that, none of the mechanics, assets, or really systems would be compatible.

#

Besides, Daggerfall Unity is in 1.0 now. No need for Bethesda to do anything there.

faint perch
#

Daggerfall was more rougelike generation than Starfield is anyway. The dungeons were pieces that could be snapped together quickly rather than generated via seeds and conditions.

forest surge
#

I can’t wait to hear Skingrads Area Music, Blackwood’s Music was so good.

pale walrus
#

Think it'll sound Nordic? Skingrad is Colovian, I think, and I suspect a connection between the two.

hidden herald
#

More likely Bosmeri mixed with Colovian

forest surge
#

That sounds beautiful

pale walrus
#

Wondering if we'll see any Skingrad city guards wandering around complaining about arrows to the knee......

feral viper
#

New week. New radicalism.

Merge Armour Skills. There should only be one skill, Armour. None of this Light-Medium-Heavy 1970s Gygax nonsense. That's not how armour works.

And no overly complicated % reduction formulas. You shouldn't need to have taken highschool calculus to figure out how much your armour protects you. 10 AC should reflect on 10 Damage.

Clean, easy, and actionable.

gray oyster
#

Let there be The Elder Scrolls Offline!!!

forest surge
#

Not anytime soon lol

feral viper
#

Well, considering BGS has made a single multiplayer game in the last 25 years, I think the odds of the next TES being singleplayer are pretty good.

pale walrus
# feral viper https://tenor.com/view/alrighty-then-jim-carrey-ace-ventura-gif-7715492

How would you structure the tradeoffs between protection, mobility and cost? I know there isn't a single 'right' solution, so the strengths and drawbacks of some particular combination of materials and styles could become extremely interesting. I'm thinking right now about the choices made by such different soldier/'warrior' types such as the Roman legionnaire, persian infantry before and during their conflict with Greece, the ancient greek hoplites, medieval knights, tartar cavalrymen, infantry from the far east during their medieval eras and so forth. There's a lot of different ways to approach the problem and lots of tradeoffs to be made.

feral viper
#

Proper types of armour (of which there are 4 main ones, though you push that as far as 8 if you're being weird) weight and material.

feral viper
#

In a little more detail...

Specific types of armour are particularly good against specific types of damage. So you wear the armour you expect will serve the best in the situations you expect to find yourself. Or which you can afford... In reality, Plate Armour of the best material you can find simply out preforms everything else.

Fantasy has the added benefit of Magic as well though, so you can make that more of a give and take relationships, with some armours such as Leather (which was in reality very rarely used because it was expensive and not very good) being more protective against Magic, and Plate being very Physical focused. With Maille being something of a hybrid. You can even include Cloth, Scale and Lamellar to create more of a general scaling.

#

Weight is easy. The design of the armour will not restrict you all that much. Because a clunky combatant is a quickly dead one. So Armour made by any competent craftsman is going to restrict your movement as little as it possibly can.

However, it's far more difficult to deal with weight. Armour distributed it well, but at the end of the day, moving 25kg is moving 25kg. It required more personal strength and endurance to do.

More armour equates to more literal weight, which slows you down. Simple again.

#

And finally... Materials. Partially related to Crafting in general, but the raw effectiveness of armour, as well as its value and its weight, is heavily dependent on the material it's made out of.

Evony Armour and Elven Armour in Skyrim are both Plate Armours. They will both behave like Plate Armours. They articulate, distribute impacts, and are worn exactly the same.

The only functional differences are the artistic styles they represent, and the materials they are made of.

Ebony, as a material, is harder, heavier, and far more valuable.

#

Mechanically speaking, moving Encumbrance entirely to Weight has a few benefits.

First, Burden Spells become actually useful, while Feather spells become more dynamic. Even a relatively minor Burden spell can slow down an enemy enough to give you an edge, while Feather can now give you actual performance benefits.

Second, it means that you aren't just cramming everything in your backpack anymore, smoothing out the Wealth Accumulation problem that BGS games have by making Carry Weight more of an active consideration rather than a flat functional cap.

Third, it means that having Strength Representations in characteristics has a very real, very perceivable impact.

#

You still have the effective result of More, bigger armour = Slow you down more. You just get all the other benefits on top of that.

pale walrus
forest surge
#

Elder Scrolls: The Musical

warm stump
pale walrus
#

Do they show a larger version of Yagrum Bagarn dressed in a Santa outfit flying around in a dwemer airship being pulled by cliff racers, dropping gifts off that were made by tiny Altmer or Bosmer?

wide garnet
nimble pond
#

Now that I think about it.. it is kinda dumb how simply standing there taking hits like a braindead punching bag in armor magically raises your "skill" in armor. I can understand a skill needing "experience" like out practicing in the field, but at the same time I feel like there needs to be a job/profession for these skills you can study/train under.

pale walrus
feral viper
#

I think the core issue with attaching Dodge or anything to the Armour Skill has a problem of making it an activity driven by... Well.. not even really USING the Armour at all. If you successfully dodge an attack, whether you have armour or not is irrelevant.

pale walrus
feral viper
#

Armours is one of the few Skills I've struggled with when it comes to that.

The idea of getting better while being hit... DOES actually make sense, when you break it down. Taking a bit, and learning HOW to take a hit, are two very different things. And the latter is incredibly important in any sort of Competitive Fighting career.

But simulating that in game is something that's largely eluded me.

#

Any sort of movement based activity would impede on any sort of Athletics skill. You can't rely on HAVING to use a Trainer for it. And you can't really accurately reflect testing balance and momentum in game the way you could in real life.

#

The closest I've come is... Everything contributes a little bit. But the more armour you're wearing, the higher that contribution. So if you're covered head to toe, everything from Running to Fighting to Blocking to even taking Hits is going to contribute as a secondary influence outside of their own skill...

But that's a really crude approach to it that doesn't really make Armour an activity in its own right.

pale walrus
#

Fair enough. We'll have to leave it to BSG to come up with something creative.

feral viper
#

Not holding my breath on that one

nimble pond
#

Simply put, I kinda like how Starfield did it with challenges in their skill trees. You could have certain orders to fulfill under the jobs/professions you're training under with a trainer, which also grants experience in greater amounts than what you earn practicing out in the field.

feral viper
#

Ok, that is a fair point. Challenges were fantastic, so MAYBE they'll come up with something.

#

I think the concept is better used for unlocking potential Perks within Skills however, while the Skills themselves are still the primary driving EXP generator.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Nah, New Vegas used the traditional Buy In system.

You could become a master hacker without ever actually touching a computer

nimble pond
#

Say I'm training under an armored blacksmith. While working for him and being taught about the skill "armor" and as I progress I unlock different kinds of jobs for that skill. Say I'm really digging elven armor, so if I craft 5 elven armors for him to sell i could be rewarded a greater amount of xp for that job. They could add in some more unique quests that have big xp payoffs as well. You still keep the open choice in skill trees, it's just adding in jobs to make skills feel not so mindless and more in-line with the game world as opposed to this silly menu that pops up..

feral viper
#

That's an option as well.

We're still largely left with Armour ending up as an Overflow Skill though, which I think lessens it somewhat.

#

Really, there's a reasonable argument to be made that these reasons are why it shouldn't be a Skill at all.

And really, your skill in wearing Armour isn't going to have THAT big an impact on your survivability in it. Kinda the whole point of Armour is to protect you, whether you know what you're doing or not.

#

But this is also a Fantasy Setting, so you can still have things to play around with that don't make strict sense in realism.

So I'm inclined to stay the course on this one, and find a way to make it relevant.

nimble pond
#

It's the way they are using armor in the system that makes it come to question whether it should be a skill at all

feral viper
#

Yeah.

nimble pond
#

One way to fix it is divide it into both jobs and training/practicing (using your skill) out in the field. The xp and jobs you complete opens up "passive" perks, while the field practice opens up "active" perks. So with armor you are getting these more "craftminship-like" passive perks and depending how you use your armor out in the field you open up more armor-battle based active perks.

#

Cause that basically is armor. Half of it is craftsmanship, the other half is learned out battling and moving around it.

#

Same could be said for most any other skill

feral viper
#

Another option i just thought of is... If you address some OTHER mechanical issues (such as dodging, parrying, carry weight, encumbrance etc) then it could end up being that simply WEARING the armour and moving around in it is enough of an elective choice - and commitment- that it validates the skill.

#

Because as it stands, Armour is the ONLY mitigation option available, so you're just always going to be wearing it. But if wearing Armour it's self has tradeoffs and commitments...

nimble pond
#

Dodging and parrying to me is more like a choice of battle-styles. Depending on what you want to go with or switch to later, you get different kinds of dodges and parries based on your currently selected battle form. They could have a hybrid too where you custom select your own moves from different forms of the combat arts.

feral viper
#

Oh, absolutely. But allowing more general engagement options lessens the dependence ON armour, making Armour it's self a choice rather than a necessity.

#

As it stands, there's no way to really play a classical Venitian Duelist, for instance. But if you had Dodging and Partying, such an entirely unarmored approach may be viable..

nimble pond
#

Well typically that's how you want to build the skill categories and trees so even tho separate they all kinda mend and become fluid for you as you progress

feral viper
#

And if it's viable, suddenly simply wearing Armour at all becomes an elective activity, rather than a survival necessity.

nimble pond
#

Why is armor a survival necessity? Mages typically don't even need it (at least the physical armor). I was always under the impression it was elective

feral viper
#

There's no other way to deal with incoming damage in TES. Well, except for outright exploits, like Oblivion's backpeddling.

nimble pond
#

But I do think having a skill/jobs for "combat arts" which is basically your stance, how you dodge, parry (if possible for whatever you choose) would be cool. Like if I want to be an assassin I feel like I should walk like an assassin.. not just the generic crouching that remains the same (like the shadow crouching was pretty cool in skyrim). Or as you say, if you want to be an unarmorerd person that relies on parrying or dodging, you could do that too with a good rounded selection of different art forms to choose from for battle

feral viper
#

Mages get some shields that also mitigate, but the only real damage reduction or avoidance system in TES is AC. Which it's self comes from Armour.

#

Well, and Block I suppose

nimble pond
#

What is AC again? I forget the abbreviations

#

Yea they could have different blocks too in combat arts.

#

Sort of smaller skill trees within larger ones

feral viper
#

Armour Class.

nimble pond
#

Oh the light and heavy thing

feral viper
#

Which is it's self an absurdly convoluted system that has no real direct relation to your damage reduction when hit... Because everything needs to be nonsensical formulas apparently.

nimble pond
#

They have different ways to deal with incoming damage. But as far as dealing with in the more physical matter, like traditional warriors. Yes that's basically the only option. Besides blocking.

#

Yes I'm not a fan of the light/heavy system either.

#

It shouldn't dictate the armor, it should simply be a characteristic of it, like this armor material weighs more/less than this one.

feral viper
#

Light-Medium-Heavy meant something in the days when it was basically a representation of how MUCH armour you were wearing.

When Gygax and co. turned it into a bunch of arbitrarily divided types based on perceived weight of a full suit (and not how much they actually weighed) the entire thing became rubbish.

nimble pond
#

I'm more for the crafting aspect, let me mix the armor materials as I please for each body part. The armor class thing is too locking and just not fun.

pale walrus
#

I like the idea of different sorts of armor helping or hindering in certain ways and capturing that statistically. As an example - the Achamaenid persian infantry used to carry javelins and a small sword/large knife, with armor consisting of a shield of animal hide or wicker, along with a cuirass (of sorts) made of linen (nobody knows exactly how such armor was made, but it is generally assumed that it had some amount of strength from layers glued together, from buffering or stiffening materials inserted between layers, and from linen weaving techniques that could make the fabric rather tough.) It seems to me armor of this sort could turn an off-angle thrust or spread a blunt impact out over a larger area, but would still be somewhat limited in effectiveness. In an ES game, I'd like to see that armor 'rated' in some way against certain types of weapons with the above in mind. Such armor was apparently light and relatively cool, and I would bet it didn't make a lot of noise as you moved around, so all those factors should be accounted for as well (in terms of fatigue and noise.) Finally, that sort of armor was likely quite cheap and easy to maintain, which should be reflected in its rating scheme as well.

oblique gyro
#

Anyone in here a modder?

steep relic
nimble pond
#

They should allow enemies to attack and hit us while on horseback in the next game. I mean it couldn't be anymore OP than being attacked by fire/ice breathing dragons.. Plus, I'd really like to engage in some horseback combat with enemies too, not just being attacked while on foot. Not to mention making horses themselves more.. weaponized. Can't even kick baddies 😭 Let me put some spikes around those hoofs for extra warhorse dmg. Going for that cavalry knight roleplay. Saddlebags for more inventory space too please.

feral viper
#

Oh, absolutely.

Though then we're getting into some deeper interactions between Basic Armour Mechanics and how it relates to combat.

In the combat approach I spoke about before, having direct control over the type of attacks you make and when you make them (via Thrust and Swing basic inputs) would allow you to vehaviourallt distinguish different types of weapons, and the damage they do. An Estoc for instance is primarily a Thrusting Sword, designed to get into tight places and between armour plates (sometimes through thinner parts). Some didn't even HAVE cutting edges on them at all and were little more than a sharpened rod. A Scimitar, on the other hand, had a broad and curved blade to maximise contact with the cutting edge and create long and deep lacerations. Explicitly, both are Swords, but both are used and behave in very particular ways.

Mechanical control over HOW you attack with a weapon, allows you to better represent HOW that weapon behaves. Which, in then, allows you to better represent HOW armour functions and resists that behaviour.

Suddenly, having Slashing AC on a Maille hauberk becomes far more impactful when your enemy has a Saber, but that low Pierce AC is a concern. Now you, the player, have to be aware of what you can do, and what you have at your disposal, whole also recognising what the enemy can do, and reacting accordingly.

slim berry
pale walrus
#

Scimitars....you mean curved swords? CURVED? SWORDS? 😉

inner prairie
#

Any word on an Apple TestFlight for Elder Scrolls: Castles? Or is it just gonna launch on the store as a “beta” in name only

nimble pond
pale walrus
#

To be honest, I used my companions in Skyrim mostly as pack animals 🤣

nimble pond
slim berry
#

Lydia?

nimble pond
nimble pond
slim berry
#

Those eyes speak of burdens.

nimble pond
#

I can already hear her voice in my head. Time to "lead" Lydia home.

feral viper
#

Fallout 76 has ruined me.

#

Now whenever I see the word Home, I think of Country Roads. And I don't even LIKE that song.

livid ingot
forest surge
feral viper
#

There is only one folk song worth listening to.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Barrett's Privateers.

#

Ooooh, the year was seventeen seventy eight.
How I wish I was in Sherbrooke now.
When a letter of marque came from the king
To the scummiest vessel i'd ever seen

pale walrus
#

If the story I've been told is accurate, tomorrow at 4PM Eastern there won't be just a reveal on a new ESO installment, but some sort of general announcement concerning ES in total. Hmmm.....

forest surge
#

Really? Interesting

pale walrus
# feral viper Barrett's Privateers.

I can top that. Johnny Cash. "Well, my daddy left home when I was three
Didn't leave very much to my mom and me
Except this old guitar and an empty bottle of booze
Now I don't blame him 'cause he run and hid
But the meanest thing that my daddy ever did
Was before he left, he went and named me Sue..."

tidal copper
#

armor class

sleek mountain
nimble pond
hidden herald
#

Spellcrafting is hinted at through their official teasers as well, but not said outright, while the location in the short teaser for the global reveal, and the heraldry for Skingrad, are very clear.

nimble pond
#

I like spellcrafting. It's got me curious about spellweaving, particularly weaving magic with alchemy or something new.

forest surge
#

Cyrodill, The Heart of the once powerful 2nd Empire…

nimble pond
#

Perhaps something even more profane like soulcrafting.

sleek mountain
#

isn't TESO skill locked by their class, how spellcraft gonna work 🤨

hidden herald
#

There are skills in ESO that are not linked with class, so Spellcrafting or other such systems could work through a separate skill line or lines.

sleek mountain
#

oh yeah, kinda forgot about guild skills 😅

tardy tiger
#

Guild skills, weapon skills and curses (vampire and Werewolf).

nimble pond
#

🏰

hidden herald
#

Xbox Direct has started, remember 4:00PM-5:00PM EST on Twitch if you want the emote for ESO.

fast vortex
#

ESO Maelstrom Arena is dropping perfected versions of weapons on normal difficulty during this event. It’s got to be a bug, right? I’m afraid to go in there to get my box.

#

Can anyone from Bethesda comment on whether this should be happening?

hidden herald
#

You need to contact ZOS themselves through their forums or the in-game reporting tool. BGS might have some connections for lore, but development is primarily ZOS.

fast vortex
#

Got it thanks

hidden herald
#

The new chapter is available on Steam now. Collection if you want all the prior chapters plus base game, Upgrade if you want Just Gold Coast.
Deluxe of each if you want extra cosmetics.
New feature is Scribing.

pale walrus
#

Well, the ESO announcement broadcast just finished. It's just an addition of the West Weald in Cyrodiil. It turns out there is no fresh news about ES in general.

faint perch
#

A new to ES Dedrict prince sounds pretty fresh to me.

#

Note: they aren't a "fresh prince" however.

forest surge
#

HA!

forest surge
pale walrus
#

Ithelia - the daedric prince of paths. She can alter fates and shape destinies.

forest surge
#

Yep

violet lily
#

I already preordered the statue - she's gorgeous

hidden herald
#

I for one welcome back our new/old Daedric Prince Overlord.

heavy cobalt
#

So no new class this coming new expansion?

hidden herald
#

No, instead there is the scribing system, which adds one highly customizable ability to:
All weapon skill lines
Fighters Guild and Mages Guild
Soul Magic
Assault and Support
Instead of adding one class, they added more tools for all classes to be able to use if they have the chapter.

glass pasture
#

guys act ur age and dont whine about microtransactions and stuff the company needs to make money

#

if you cant afford it dont ruin it for those who can

hearty glade
#

Ithella the unseen mistress of the untraveled think I've found my new wife 😩

tardy tiger
#

Do not romance the demons

sudden berry
#

Anyone know a good site that discuss arcanist builds and such? I know ESO has the "suggested skills", but I'm curious where people's go to is for discussions on different builds(magicka versus stamina, etc.)

hidden herald
#

There are various guides one can look up. Personally, I like reading through the DPS guides from Skinny Cheeks, but there are many guides for DPS, Tanks, and Healers, for all classes.

sudden berry
#

Perfect, thank you!

eager remnant
sudden berry
#

Ah ok, thanks for the info!

fallow thunder
#

Im looking forward to netflix fallout series though

clever falcon
#

Hey I'm gonna run a text based pathfinder 2nd edition campaign set in tamriel (4th era, but with some old lore sprinkled in), anyone interested at all?

hearty glade
nimble pond
#

If they do open up jobs in the game, I'd like to have my own bar so I can listen to all the awful stories from my drunken NPCs

spare otter
#

I want to be a courier so I can deliver letters to random adventurers and be annoying

undone temple
#

I would be a chef. Maybe, they’d actually bring back the chef costume. 😂

#

I’m laughing on the outside, but crying on the inside.

nimble pond
#

The chaos you could cause by delivering mail to the wrong recipient! Hahahaha

undone temple
#

Would be hilarious. Especially, if you were like the insult bot from 76.

#

The thing tracks down random vault dwellers and just delivers random insults.

nimble pond
undone temple
#

That could be fun.

nimble pond
undone temple
#

Sorcerer or necromancer?

undone temple
#

Are the servers down for Xbox na?

#

Disregard. Guess it was just server hiccups.

feral viper
#

Those men and women are god damned heroes.

feral viper
clever falcon
#

It's play by post, do the commitment is about one paragraph a day or more if you feel like

#

Though currently I'm full up, I can hit you up if there's any dropouts though

feral viper
#

Duly noted, keep me posted.

pale walrus
eager remnant
# pale walrus Being a cab driver might be fun, too. Or part of a khaajiti merchant caravan.

It's funny you should mention that. One of my characters spent her entire game following caravans, protecting them from bandits and hostile creatures. I like to play non-Dragonborn characters who mainly spend their time doing their jobs. I played one character who did nothing but mine ore and sell it to Smiths. In Morrowind and Oblivion I played characters who collected books and sold them to booksellers. In al three games I've played feral hunters who lived in the wilds and never went inside a town. I don't think any of these characters ever finished a side quest, much less a main quest.

nimble pond
dim reef
#

elder scrolls castle isnt on pc?

#

will it ever be by chance

feral viper
#

Fallout Shelter eventually made it to PC, so I think it's a reasonable expectation that Castles will eventually as well.

faint perch
#

Blades never did.

feral viper
#

Fair point.

dim reef
#

they should make dual swords more intresting like blocking have some intense sword fights lol

frozen notch
#

The 30th Anniversary is coming. What do you think we can expect from it? TES Castles release most likely, but maybe also some secret stuff? AdoringFan

forest surge
#

Who knows really

pale walrus
#

So when is the 30th anniversary?

frozen notch
pale walrus
nimble pond
nimble pond
nimble pond
nimble pond
faint perch
#

I have no idea. I didn't know anyone else who played it till I joined this server.

pale walrus
dim reef
nimble pond
pale walrus
#

maybe if there's somebody in the redguard pantheon who resembles shiva with all his extra arms

livid ingot
# nimble pond No, but maybe one day

I think that would probably be the domain of Alteration rather than Conjuration, since conjuring a pair of arms wouldn't immediately attach them to your person (let alone make them work)

#

But you could presumably use Alteration to alter your own body so that you had another set of arms

pale walrus
#

How about summoning a multi-armed daedra?

nimble pond
nimble pond
nimble pond
nimble pond
feral viper
#

My issue with dyes (or lacquers for metals) is that it confuses easy identification. Which it's self would make any sort of more informed decision making in combat or general interaction much more difficult, unless you just hard-locked styles to particular materials.

So I think you get more practical value and visual customisation out of Material+Style, rather than Style+Dyes.

#

Especially since, ultimately, the current approach to equipment burdens combat and interaction and basically leaves no room for real decision making or strategy as it is.

dim reef
#

Who cam upgrade restoration skills

eager remnant
# dim reef Who cam upgrade restoration skills

A list of trainers can be found on this page: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Restoration

Skyrim:Restoration

Restoration is one of the five schools of magic in Skyrim. Restoration magic focuses on spells that cure physical ailments. Increasing this skill reduces Magicka cost when casting Restoration spells. Historical information about the School of Restoration is provided in the lore article. The Restoration skill tree has a total of 12 perks, requiri...

pale walrus
#

What would 'tonal magic' look like if you specialized in it? That could be a truly fascinating school of magic outside of conjuration, alteration and all the rest. Would you need special equipment for it? What spells could you cast? How would you learn it? Think about wandering around hammerfell on a unique, highly detailed and lengthy quest, exploring all the dwemer ruins (including new ones that we don't know about from other titles) to learn tonal magic. First thing, of course, would be to find some sort of 'rosetta stone' that gives you the ability to read and understand dwemerish. Also - are there connections between tonal magic and other kinds of magic, such as the Thu'um and Sword Singing? Finally - could the secret to things like the creation of dwemer metal, aminunculi and other unique dwemer items lie in tonal magic?

feral viper
#

What would it look like? Well, the Thu'um is one example. Wandering around with a specialised one-man-band workup that makes all kinds of magically sensitive noises is another.

feral viper
#

Beyond that...

You'd learn it the same way you learn most things. People teach you the basics, and you practice and refine your knowledge through practical application.

Specifically conventional magic, no. However, the Tsaesci were supposed to have an art similar to Thu'um, called the Kiai. They also seem to have their own variation on the Shehai. It's possible Bosmeri Song-Shaping is also Tonal Magic, though seeing as I want to burn everything Bosmer and just start from scratch, I won't speculate further on that.

And finally... Almost definitely.

pale walrus
#

Cool! It could be fun if Bethesda pursued this in some shape or form in ES6. Dwemer tonal magic would be a fascinating novelty. Exploring connections to other sound-based magic specialties could be very neat.

forest surge
feral viper
forest surge
#

Heh heh

pale walrus
#

Anyone care to speculate on the likelihood of the Sload making an appearance in ES6? Thras isn't that far off from HF.

#

And: I'm wondering if we'll finding anything beside Dwemer automatons in Rourken ruins. In Skyrim there were falmer, but that's Skyrim. There's no evidence that the Rourken clan even had contact with the snow elves.

delicate ledge
#

I want actual Dwemer. I know "they all disappeared"but there's exceptions to every rule, like Yagram, or the two Snow Elves.

feral viper
#

I like the Dwemer remaining absent, and mysterious.

Though I'd prefer if there was some actual Archaeology going on, and not the meandering nonsense we see. Like, even at their worst, the Royal Museum was still better than the academic hacks in Tamriel.

undone temple
feral viper
#

Mystery has been solved to my standards.

They screwed up, and we're absorbed by the attempted apotheosis of the Numidium.

#

They either forgot to carry the 1 and miscalculated the power requirements. Or they Monkeys Paw'd themselves into extinction.

dim reef
#

anyone on eso wiht vamp NA xbox i could get bit

eager remnant
undone temple
#

Because just by looking at it, all elder scrolls discussion should be allowed.

eager remnant
# undone temple Really? The title of the channel is pretty open to interpretation for that. Woul...

The description is there. If you look at the title of this Discord you will see that it belongs to Bethesda Game Studios. ESO was not developed by Bethesda Game Studios, it was developed by ZeniMax Online Studios. ZeniMax Online Studios maintains a Discord (a link can be found in #official-sites ) but it is mainly reserved for developer announcements. If you have questions or suggestions concerning ESO, Zenimax Online's forums are the place to post them.

feral viper
# undone temple Because just by looking at it, all elder scrolls discussion should be allowed.

All Elder Scrolls Lore is a topic for discussion in the lore channel. Though as a technicality, that's even against the rules of this group...

However, given that this Discord in general is about Bethesda Game Studios- the specific developer studio that makes every other TES game BUT ESO; and not Bethesda Softworks - the parent publisher which also includes ESO's developer, Zenimax Online Studios; all other conversations are generally kept to BGS's titles.

If you know the distinction between the entities, it's a pretty obvious divide. However, due to the... Let's call them Branding Decisions made more than 20 years ago, the general recognition of that divide is, in my experience, unfortunately niche knowledge.

undone temple
feral viper
#

The unfortunate consequences of it being made by an entirely different company, linked solely by the parent corporation that owns both companies.

undone temple
#

Indeed

feral viper
#

It's kinda like... I've had friends encounter similar problems trying to talk about Pokemon on some official Nintendo platforms. Despite the fact that Nintendo owns a portion of the brand, conversations about it are always directed to Gamefreak's platforms instead

pale walrus
forest surge
feral viper
#

And this is sort of a tangential issue, but a lot of the academic texts and lore books in TES are very clearly not written by someone used to any sort of academic, historical, or technical writing. And it really impairs the perception of professionals due to this.

Even simple thigs like the record of the Battle of the Red Ring are written like notes you'd have in a fluff box in a D&D adventure book or a Warhammer Codex. They don't read like actual professional texts, and never actually give any useful information.

#

You do sometimes get exceptions, such as the researchers notes about Dwemer machines, boilers and soul gems as the heat source, but like...

Why is a random explorer (now dead) in a distant half collapsed glacial Dwemer outpost the one recording this stuff, when you have 'experts' literally living in Dwemer cities and using Dwemer accumulli. And THEY haven't even managed to figure this out.

#

But... That's definitely something more on the personal side. I recognise that writing tends to be highly subjective and can largely depend on an individual's tastes and exposure.

So I try to veer away from it in this channel... Gameplay and technical elements are something much easier to quantify, and therefore a more constructive point of conversation.

forest surge
#

New Dwemer automatons and such, Dwemer Armor, Weapons are allowed. Never the deeper aspects though of what they had culture wise.

feral viper
#

Indeed. And that's either because they want to leave the door open for future options... Or they plan on directly tackling that themselves in the semi-near future.

If the latter, well... Based on Imperials and Nords... Just let ZOS do it. There track recordsl for developing cultures is waaay better.

feral viper
#

Entirely unrelated... I need to find a better way to de-base Warhammer minis... My fingers can only handle so many slipped exacto blades...

#

Which brings me to... In this day and age, TES could really use with some branching out.

I know I can't be the only one who would jump at the opportunity to buy a box of Tamrielic minis.

#

I have no practical use for it, but I'd 100% buy 10 bonemold Guar Knights to sit on a shelf next to my Dragon Princes and Silver Helms..

tardy tiger
#

I think they do have a Wargaming thing from memory.

pale walrus
#

I partially agree with this idea. FONV was a decent game, though it had a different 'feel' from FO3 (a game that I enjoyed a bit more.) I'm not sure about picking Obsidian to do an ES title - I think Obsidian is getting too much benefit of the doubt, based on its reputation from 20 years ago. But in principle, the idea of bringing in a skilled studio to create titles 'in between' BSG ES releases is worth considering.

opaque ingot
#

Id be fine with it as long as it respects the canon

tardy tiger
#

Depends on studio tbh.

I wouldn't have trusted Obsidian even around the time of New Vegas they probably would've made the Aedric religions even worse

feral viper
#

I have nothing positive to say about New Vegas, and therefore don't agree with the article based on that alone.

Furthermore, it's predicated on the increasingly common mentality amongst gamers that they are ENTITLED to the games the want. And if those games aren't being made, then gamers are somehow being wronged.

Suck it up, buttercup.

#

It's Bethesda's IP. They can handle it how they want. If you (the proverbial You) don't like it, go make your own version and capture that part of the market. Bethesda owes you nothing.

#

People are too invested in this twisted image of brand loyalty as a whole. If an IP is mismanaged, let it die. It owes you nothing, and you owe it nothing.

clever falcon
#

I mean ill take FNV over starfield for tes6

feral viper
#

I'd take a Konami pachinko machine over New Vegas.

forest surge
#

I’d take “The Day Before” before New Vegas

#

Okay not true, but New Vegas regardless is just not the hypest thing people make it out to be.

feral viper
#

No, no. I think thata a pretty fair bar.

#

But that's largely beside the point anyway. Splitting a franchise across multiple developers is... Typically not a good approach.

Bethesda needs to change their process, not spread their IP across multiple studios.

forest surge
#

New Vegas was the exception at the time, Bethesda wasn’t as big then compared to now and they wanted to strike while the iron was hot after Fallout 3 on Fallout’s revival which was the only reason they contracted Obsidian at the time.

feral viper
#

@eager remnant for some reason your post keeps flashing in and out of existence for me...

But otherwise, I do sorta agree in concept, though not in detail.

Really BGS's IPs are large enough that they could benefit from dedicated development teams, at least in a practical sense. But this it's self wouldn't necessarily require handing them off to entirely different studios.

#

Dedicated teams, with a collective support network, and unified oversight, is entirely workable within this (and really, many) industry.

While it's a tangental company, a good example of this dynamic is Games Workshop. While they still have their problems, they maintain dedicated teams developing their various IPs, all with access to the wider support network connecting them.

#

Of course, that sort of structure requires establishing a lot of support systems to really capitalise on it, and requires a particular kind of management to really make work. So if you can't establish that, it's incredibly dangerous to try and do.

Still, it's generally vastly superior to contracting out licensed spinoffs. Which have a history of ownership issues, contract conflicts, inconsistent marketing, and poor results.

Despite being basically terrible in every way, New Vegas' positive perception is an exception, not the rule. Usually, you l license out a spinoff of something when you're either trying to milk it for cash (while leaving someone else holding the bag), putting it out to die in the cold, or desperately trying to rush something out the door to cling to copyright.

#

Which at the end of the day just brings us back to the primary point. While I do not personally think (with my admittedly limited business skills) that BGS's approach to handling TES is really viable or healthy in the long term...

It IS better than other options. And the IP in general should remain solidly in their hands, rather than being shopped around to 3rd party licenses.

dim reef
#

im be so sad if i cant get my malestorm arena dlc back

#

idk why it says i dont have when i specifically purchased the chapter and even farmed the para bellum set all the way up to only needing a chest piece

eager remnant
pale walrus
#

If BGS keeps a tight grip on its title creation in order to preserve the lore, I can understand. One can argue that they haven't really done such a bangup job with that, but the intent is commendable.
However: it still boils down to their ability/willingness to craft great stories. There are things they could have done in ES4 and even ES5 which they didn't do, regardless of how much any of us enjoyed those two particular titles.

#

Which raises an idea: why not bring in outside writers - and supervise them effectively? I've ghost-written things for people in the technical field which is my profession. It works out for both parties - I get to express my writing impulses while telling a story on behalf of someone else who, though not having the inclination or time to write, at least gets editorial control so that the end product is done to their satisfaction.

#

As a truly crazy example: what if Quentin Tarantino was brought in to write a major storyline in ES6? He has written some very interesting movie scripts in the past (though some were clearly better - or worse - than others.) Or perhaps some other types of writers could be offered the opportunity - various leading scifi or fantasy writers.

feral viper
#

But the overall point does stand. Bethesda needs some new writers. And by writers, I mean DEDICATED writers. People whose job, focus, and skills lie in the writing, rather than their usual trend of having everyone multitasking.

Starfield is a great example of this... It's core premise, story and characters are good. But it lacks the deftness of execution that more proficient writing staff could bring. Various concessions are made, or things glossed over, not because the story works better that way, but because they aren't properly considered.

It's still the best storytelling BGS has done in the last 20 years. But 'Best yet' does not necessarily mean 'Great'.

#

Though, I will grant them... Matteo is probably the single best written character Bethesda has ever put into a game. Talking to him is exactly as infuriatingly annoying as talking to any similar person in the real world.

So that one was aces.

last dew
#

I want to be the Shezarrine in ES6 so I could wipe out the Thalmor before they destroy the last towers in High Rock.

feral viper
#

Tower in Highrock, singular.

Also, THE Shezzarine was probably Pelinal.

And third, there is nothing to actually suggest that the Thalmor are destroying towers, or that destroying said towers would actually do anything.

last dew
#

The Thalmor to me are cartoonishly evil. I just want to beat the snot out of them.

tardy tiger
#

TBF you'd come off as cartoonishly evil when your job is to undermine everyone in the region. They're arn't there for hearts and minds.

I honestly ignore stuff about the Shezzarine even call it Lorkarnine because Shezarr is in a worse state then Ebonarm.

feral viper
#

The Thalmor are mostly cartoonishly evil because of the aforementioned writing thing... The amount of actual work put into them seems to rival that of the Motherworld in Rebel Moon.

clever falcon
#

Their job is not only to undermine everyone, but also they're trying to literally kill everyone and destroy the world. That's like their thing. There's a reason for it, but it's still saturday morning cartoon Gen 1 decepticon levels of evil

feral viper
#

Uuuuh. No. That's a fringe fan theory and not actually present, in any way, in any source.

#

Their goal is the conquest of Tamriel and the establishment of what they view as the 'dominance if the superior Elven races above their lessers'.

tardy tiger
#

The Thalmor in the College is also a "splinter faction" if I recall the Creation kit.

feral viper
#

The hypothesis it's self actually goes back to the early attempts to decipher what the Bugs in Jars meant. Which we now know is irrelevant, as whatever intended story they related to was never actually finished or included.

pale walrus
#

there are some truly looney people amongst the thalmor ranks, though. Think of the one who wanted to unleash 'The Culling' from the Imperial City. A very mentally unhealthy individual.

forest surge
#

That’s from Legends right?

pale walrus
#

Honestly I don't know.

feral viper
#

Yes.

feral viper
#

Aaand... I can't believe im agreeing with Obsidian, but they're apparently doing what Bethesda really should do for TES6

#

Looking to Farshark's games to influence how combat should feel meaty and impactful.

#

If you hit something with a Mace, it shows FEEL like you just hit something. In your bones.

forest surge
#

Huh… so Mortal Kombat Gifs aren’t allowed, good to know

feral viper
#

Too gruesome I suppose.

#

But, if you've played Vermintide or Darktide, you probably know what I'm talking about.

While the combat controls and behaviours aren't what I'd suggest, the impact, feel and sounds are

tardy tiger
#

Problem is that combat works for horde fighting games. Where the entire focus of the game is the combat.
Though I do play a bit of both.
(Foot Knight Kruber in Vermintide 2 and I play a bit of Zealot in Darktide)

feral viper
#

Oh, absolutely. Mechanically, it's not really that applicable. It's designed to mow through hordes of Rat Men, cutting down chaff by the dozens.

It's mechanically not something that would really work in TES, where your facing off against no more than 4 or 5 enemies, max

#

But there's still nothing quite like bringing your hammer down on a Stormvermin's skull with a resounding wet squelch.

forest surge
#

I would like more gruesome sounding noises when hitting an enemy depending on the weapon.

feral viper
#

Indeed.

Mechanically, something very different is needed. But as far as FEELING, Vermintide and Darktide are unmatched.

#

It's especially stark when going from Darktide, to Starfield and trying a melee build.

Not only is Melee just... Just absolutely terrible in that game, but it's floaty and unresponsive and ineffective and just... Blegh.

Major work is needed, especially since TES is predominantly Melee focused.

forest surge
#

Never Forget the Stealth Archer Builds

tardy tiger
#

Shields have a nice play gameplay wise but they're not a killing weapon but a stagger one. Great for tanking monsters though. (Ogyrn shields and put theirs up and just have a snack while a Daemonhost tries their best to get past it and always failing)

feral viper
#

Nah man, White Wolf hammer. Crack some skulls in Sigmar's name.

forest surge
#

This one cuts down his enemies in the name of the Divines and Azurah.

feral viper
#

'This one'? That sounds like Rat Speak to me.

forest surge
#

This one resents that. XD

tardy tiger
#

Don't worry. It's the fungus you got to worry about.

feral viper
#

Stab stab man things. Stab stab then skitter leap aways!

pale walrus
#

Sounds like Cicero, actually.

feral viper
#

The entire Dark Brotherhood wishes they were even a fraction as competent or bad ass as Clan Eshin

forest surge
#

Hey ESO Brotherhood is pretty good, although I’m not a fan of anything else Fantasy other than Elder Scrolls in the gaming department.

pale walrus
#

Music.

#

For ES3, the soundtrack was pretty epic, and suggested (to me, at least) a grand, sweeping adventure with distant, captivating horizons calling to you. ES4's soundtrack was, by contrast, as bland an uninspiring as the game itself (apologies to all Oblivion fans - if you enjoyed the game, good for you.) And ES5's was somewhat Wagnerian - very stirring and dramatic, an impressive musical composition. All three soundtracks fit their titles well (at least for me.) This raises the question of what that music might 'sound' like for ES6. What musical influences could be drawn from to inspire the right kind of musical accompaniment to a game in that province? My gut tells me the first place to look would be Taiko drum pieces, along with a more ethereal sound that might come from Berber musical traditions. Thoughts?

forest surge
#

Probably Middle Eastern

pale walrus
forest surge
#

Just Middle East honestly, add in Asian flair to it

nimble pond
clever falcon
#

Welp I have the first act of my TES campaign outlined

clever falcon
#

Act 1 is port hopping the Topal bay. Gideon, Leyawiin, Senchal

pale walrus
#

What's the purpose? Piracy? Smuggling? Slave trade? Needs to be something fun and wholesome. 😉

clever falcon
#

The overarching plot of the whole campaign is recovering the Shadowkeys before the THLMR. Act 1 in particular is the intro to that conflict, as well as assisting the Penitvs Ocvlatvs with dismantling a Thrassian crime lord/necromancer doing all of the above. Slaves, narcotics, soul trade.

pale walrus
#

Whoa! Sounds like a LOT of fun. 😊

pale walrus
#

Should ES6 happen shortly after ES5 timewise (4E 201) or should there be a greater passage of time between the titles?

feral viper
#

Either shortly after, or even at the same time.

eager remnant
#

Shortly after would be my first preference too.

forest surge
# feral viper Either shortly after, or even at the same time.

I think that works to as the timeskips from Arena to Oblivion were not that far and between and were essentially building up to one story which concluded in Oblivion. Until Skyrim which was 200 Years after, which I assume now in this new Era of Thalmor vs Empire Cold War would be within a few years for however long that story is taking place for.

pale walrus
#

Hang on. Let's see....the Great War ended in 4E 175. Skyrim happens in 4E 201. Twenty six years later. With Skyrim tying up Legion resources in the Civil War, this would be an opportune moment to strike. So ES6 could potentially happen concurrently with the confrontation with Alduin or shortly afterwards. But: all the involved provinces - Cyrodiil, Valenwood, Elsweyr, Hammerfell and Summerset - would have had time to recover and rebuild their forces (after all, a full generation has passed.) The war resulted in high losses for all combatants, but in the end the Thalmor were not successful in holding on to either HF or Cyrodiil. So maybe the Thalmor would be looking for an edge - something to tip the scales decisively in their favor. Tiber Septim had it with the Numidium. What would the Thalmor want that would have equivalent overwhelming power? It would have to be something mighty. A 'force multiplier', as it were.

nimble pond
feral viper
#

Personally, I'd start it about 5 years after Skyrim.

In the intervening years, General Decianus is recalled to service to deal with the Skyrim problem, after General Tullius's death. He successfully puts down the Stormcloaks after a 2 year campaign.

It is then discovered that Emperor Mede was assassinated by members of the Elder Council, causing Decianus to turn his legions south.

A Council force is sent to meet them, with Mede's adoptive heir denouncing the rebellious general and taking a force to support the loyalists. He then turns on the Imperial City, seizing control and declaring himself Emperor, sparking a succession crisis where Cyrodiil splits between claimant factions behind him, the Elder Council, and ambitious lords.

Basically, the Augustinian Succession and War of the Second Triumvirate.

#

This sets the stage for Hammerfell. With the Empire falling into civil war, the Dominion makes a bid to take Hammerfell again, knowing they would be without allies or support.

This sparks the rise of a Hoonding, who quickly becomes the new threat.

#

So your primary stories in Hammerfell would be: The Hoonding, and rallying the various Redguard Kingdoms against the Dominion invasion.

pale walrus
#

That sounds cool. While Cyrodiil is embroiled in chaos and badly weakening itself for the long term thru self-inflicted wounds, Skyrim drifts free (further weakening what's left of the Imperial domain) and Hammerfell is completely on its own. But it might be smart for the Thalmor to bring a little something extra with them. After all, they eventually lost their struggle to take HF and had to withdraw under the terms of the Stros M'kai treaty. It would be wise of them to find an 'edge.' And they'll also need to convince HR to stay out of it - I'd bet the first thing the Crowns do is approach the various HR kingdoms along with Skyrim and ask for support. For Skyrim, it would be a mutual enemy; for HR, it would be a warning along the lines of "if we lose, then the Thalmor will be right on your doorstep." What's left out of this is the Dunmer. They're going to be keenly interested in influencing how this all plays out. What are their potential moves in this game?

nimble pond
wide garnet
spice mantle
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Thank you !

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I’ll delete my previous comment

nimble pond
pale walrus
# nimble pond I feel like the Thalmor aren't going to be as bad (like the end-game baddie) as ...

I see what you're saying. We can look at ES3 as an example. The original triumvirate of sotha sil, almalexia and vivec were rather benign in their exploitation of the lorkhan's heart. It was big daddy dagoth who messed things up with his mad schemes. Perhaps we'll see something similar emerge from the Thalmor - a 'lone wolf' in their ranks who takes possession of some monstrous power and tries to utilize it in a way the Thalmor never intended and cannot stomach. Or maybe somebody amongst the Thalmor is assigned the task of finding and taking possession of this item of power and your job is to prevent that.

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All of this would be far easier to figure out if only we....had some news....... 😉

nimble pond
# pale walrus All of this would be far easier to figure out if only we....had some news..........

It's why we're all here with all our ramblings 🤪, still years to go (and many pencils to throw). https://i.pinimg.com/originals/35/82/67/3582670e141908f3525ae498148b6577.gif

News is alright though, it's the hyping they attach to it though that is sort of a double-edged sword. It's good for marketing, but I've also noticed most games that over-hype, attract the most hate. Not only because of hype leading to overblown expectations, but it also just tends to attract the hate like moth to the flame (I must hate this! Lol).

steep relic
pale walrus
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Something that might help a lot when the next title is released - taking tiny steps to enter both previously explored provinces and the unexplored ones as well. WAIT - don't get mad. Let me explain.

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Hammerfell borders HR, Skyrim, Cyrodiil and Summerset (sort of.) Just for nostalgia purposes, I think it would be fun if the game included the ability for the PC to go to ONE city by boat to each of those provinces.

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For skyrim, we could go to Solitude. Cyrodiil, I think Bravil might do it. Daggerfall for HR. Summerset? Gosh. I don't know. We actually haven't been there. But seeing one city would be fascinating.

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This might assuage the hunger so many of us have to explore more provinces and to go back to previously seen ones. Maybe even a boat ride to somewhere in Morrowind might be fun. This would mean designing, laying out and populating 5 more cities, but for all except a coastal city in Summerset, there is previous work which could be drawn from to assist in the effort.

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It's just an idea. Please nobody get mad. 😬

livid ingot
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Hmm. It's a possibility, I suppose, especially if a Hammerfell game puts a lot of focus on being a ship captain.

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Very unlikely though. You'd easily be doubling the amount of cities in the game, which is a lot of work when it's the countryside that contains most of the content for the player

nimble pond
pale walrus
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The Thalmor may be blinded by their ambitions. If I were leading the Sload and Maormer, I'd be looking for just the right time to strike in concert, and if I were leading the Dunmer, I'd be very quietly and secretly encouraging and materially supporting this. Part of the support should include finding a way for the Maormer to rebuild their fleet - perhaps with new flora and fauna in Pyandonea.

nimble pond
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I always felt the Maormer just needed more time to reassemble? It might have been a different story altogether had the Psijic Order not been involved.

pale walrus
# nimble pond I always felt the Maormer just needed more time to reassemble? It might have bee...

Terical suggested that the Maormer might be unable to rebuild their fleet after the last disastrous defeat they suffered at the hands of the Altmer, perhaps thru the depletion or outright of exhaustion of timber resources in Pyandonea. If that were the case, it would be a tremendously smart move by the dunmer to export flora and fauna to the Maormer which the Dunmer use as sources of material for home/building construction and armor. It seems to me that material could, with some clever artisanship, be repurposed for developing naval vessels. I would bet that the Morrowind flora and fauna will find the tropical and subtropical areas of Pyandonea to be hospitable and that they would prosper.

nimble pond
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The way I read the lore was so much of the fleet was lost that they wouldn't be mustering up another attack anytime soon, nor desire to attack again if the Psijic Order is involved, unless they either have some new allies or have found an effective way to counter the Psijic Order. Because what is the point in amassing more timber if it's just gonna get obliterated by another Psijic sea storm. Logic..

Besides ships, didn't the king ride on a sea serpent or something? I could have that mixed up. But being sea elves, you'd come to think they'd have some unique & formidable assets in their navy compared to others. Perhaps some exclusive protective water-based magic intertwined with their vessels. I do believe they are capable of summoning hurricanes and sea storms capable of destroying entire fleets. I think they even have Leviathans now, which are supposed to be a mix of sea elf & sea serpent. 😳

I was really quite shocked sea elves succumbed mostly due to a sea storm.. but then again this is the Psijic Order we're talking about 😅

forest surge
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You think King Orgnum would give up already

nimble pond
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I think for the time-being, he has 😂

forest surge
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I mean in general, I’m surprised his own people haven’t disposed him at this point

nimble pond
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True. Idk maybe a lot of them share in his feels against their nemesis lol

forest surge
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I doubt it tbh

nimble pond
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🤷‍♂️

forest surge
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It may just be because the King is so grouchy about being exiled that he never learned to let it go

nimble pond
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I mean look at the nords and the whole stormcloak thing for example..

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Seems to be a common case throughout Tamriel 😂

forest surge
nimble pond
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Thinking back. Maybe it wasn't a sea storm that annihilated their fleet. But an ice storm.. now that could very well hamper any navy fleet.

nimble pond
nimble pond
# pale walrus Something that might help a lot when the next title is released - taking tiny st...

My thing was, I think it's fine to have more than one explorable province or areas in each game. But the hero(PC) is mainly centered/focused for one province per TES chapter/story. While some of the neighboring and/or non-neighboring areas of other provinces could be opened up too. The game map doesn't necessarily have to strictly stay within the borders of a single province. Not sure if I'd open up an entire other province as well though unless it has some direct need with the main story(stories) like a huge war between two provinces.

But anyway, it'd be kinda weird if you're(PC) different multiple heroes all-at-once in a single TES chapter?
Another option we go back to Arena where you are the hero, with all the provinces open for each game, which idk, not really feeling that. Seems like it'd get stale quickly.

pale walrus
pale walrus
pale walrus
# nimble pond My thing was, I think it's fine to have more than one explorable province or are...

Yeah, two whole provinces or even an even split is risky. It could 'dilute' the effort. So I'm thinking - cover HF in the vanilla ES6, and then have a series of small but very focused DLCs that bring you 'back to the days of old', with sailing trips to Daggerfall, Solitude, Blacklight and Bravil. Maybe through in Wayrest for something completely new. Each city could serve as the setting for one 15 hour quest and, say, 4-5 quests of 2-3 hours each. This way, everyone gets their small dose of nostalgia along with new adventuring content. This should not obviate a visit back to the remnants of Yokuda, which would be a logical and highly intriguing extension of the vanilla game. Again, just an idea.

gray oyster
feral viper
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That'd be a dangerous road to walk. It would mean canonising the identity and at least some of the personality of the Dragonborn. Which would go against what the series tends to subscribe to.

gray oyster
feral viper
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Much easier said than done, unfortunately

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Especially given Bethesda's generally... Poor characterisation options in their games. All there really is, is What a character has done, no concern for Why or How.

And with the way TES in particular handles character abilities and skills, it's even less likely to yield good results. Like, if it tracks your highest Skill as your defining characteristics... How does it handle completionist characters? Characters who have changed their loadouts over their playthrough? Characters who have undergone radical individual shifts?

gray oyster
feral viper
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Even then, there's a massive range in characterisation that Backgrounds don't cover. And attempting to impose them as part of an identity is one of the biggest failings of CRPGs.

For instance, most games will just decide how a Professor background thinks and behaves. Anyone who has been to university can tell you right off that there is no single type of Professor. And trying to prescribe that identity out of the gate, or retroactively, simply strips away the characterisation option of the player.

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TTRPGs can get around this because of the inherent active creative roles the Players and GMs engage in. But CRPGs don't have that, and utterly fail every time they try to simulate it.

feral viper
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Ultimately, I would much rather see Bethesda work on good fundamentals, than chasing the unicorn that every RPG does.

Because it's just not gonna work. You can't jump mediums, eliminate the one element that MAKES such character integration possible, and then try to cram it in there anyway.

It's like trying to make H2O out of just Oxygen.

nimble pond
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To be frank, I really would not care nor would it actually affect how I build my character in the prior game because I can simply choose to ignore whatever identity they give them in the game after. Nor would it affect how I make my next character in that next game.

As for the point of it? Not really sure besides twirling it into the main story for the next game.

feral viper
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Yeah, unless you have a very important way to weave it into a major story... Like the ever-popular 'The Dragonborn should be the next Emperor' schtick, I'm inclined to just stick with the tried and tested.

They fade into history. There will always be rumours and speculation, but when a Heroes duty is done, they ride off into the sunset.

nimble pond
feral viper
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Indeed. People clamour for it, because the Septims were Dragonborn.

But, the Septims were god awful. And their claim to Divine Right via the Dragonblood is not longer valid after the Oblivion Crisis.

Plus... Divine Right is such a lame concept to actually cement as real. It's an egotistical claim of petty rulers, making it literal divine will is... Blegh

nimble pond
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All the better for the fall of it I suppose. Build it up to knock it down

pale walrus
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An idea: each title revolves around some sort of hero emerging from obscurity to fulfill a prophecy oriented around a world-ending cataclysm. This hero might originate from Shezzar/Shor/Lorkhan/whatever in some manner. OK, then - how about the next shezzarine/eternal champion/whatever you want to call it has to confront an 'anti-hero' originating from the daedra (or a cabal of them) that is trying to ensure the cataclysm either comes true or at least its outcome fulfills that cabal's designs for Nirn?

feral viper
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I'm always hesitant to dip into the 'Evil Daedra' well, because I feel it generally diminishes the value of the Daedra as worldbuilding elements. Even in D&D, just making Devils the villians fails to represent their value to the setting...

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Though I am in support of the story being focused around confronting an Anti-Hero rather than an outright villian.

It's a lot more interesting and nuanced when the antagonist is somewhat sympathetic, instead of one dimensional evil baddy because am bad..

nimble pond
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I'm curious. Is there some giant Daedra hub in existence or is it all just separate planes. Like how do the Daedra Princes meet to plan which Daedric Prince they will screw over next in fear of them being too powerful over the rest?

feral viper
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None that we know of.

nimble pond
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Hmm. Well damn. Would of liked to check out some major Daedric city hub that has elements of many different Daedric cultures all-in-one city. Seeing more of the Daedra world than what we've seen in the realms.

feral viper
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Based on what we know about them, it's I likely they'd have something emtbinf directly... But there may be some sort of neutral meeting grounds in one of the minor planes.

#

I have no idea what that typo could have been.

pale walrus
# feral viper Though I am in support of the story being focused around confronting an Anti-Her...

Yeah - not necessarily an 'evil' foe, but a foe nonetheless. If Lorkhan is so awesomely powerful that, even after having his heart ripped out and his corpse left to rot out in space that his 'shade'/spirit can exert such tremendous influence periodically over Mundus, then it would be interesting to see one or more daedra try to exert a 'counter-influence' wherein they endeavor to influence the outcome of a cataclysmic prophecy in terms that align with their own interests. It's a twist in the usual narrative framework which I think could be fun and interesting.

pale walrus
nimble pond
# feral viper Though I am in support of the story being focused around confronting an Anti-Her...

I thought they pretty much did this already. To me, Alduin was one of the anti-heroes in Skyrim. And in some ways, I felt sympathetic toward him as well.

But if you mean anti-hero as in.. someone/something that has this deeper, personal, vendetta center-focused on you. I mean that could be an additional foe to deal with in a game.
Honestly, when I first read it, it reminded me of early Pokémon games where you got that peckerhead trainer who starts the game with you, always wanting to challenge you and talk trash, lol.

nimble pond
feral viper
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Alduin COULD have been an Anti-Hero, but they utterly missed the mark on it by failing to explore his motivations. He's just:

'I'm mean because I'm made mean and you all have to serve me because I say so.'

nimble pond
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I mean it's possible I came to my own conclusion of him based on my game experience and reading about him. But personally, I never saw him as this mindlessly evil thing?

feral viper
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Based only on what is present in game, he is almost comically evil.

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If you draw in any of the outside, mostly OOG sources, there's enough to construct a more interesting character.

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But per usual, Bethesda really fell flat on their face on presenting a compelling antagonist in the game it's self.

nimble pond
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Well it would be a bit odd if he was an astonishingly kind villain, lol. "Oh hello, DB, please don't get in the way of my plans. Would you like a sweet roll?"

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But I know what you're saying. You like more complex villains.

feral viper
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Oh, absolutely. But there's more to it than that.

The Alduin we GOT was just... 'youre dumb and small, therefore I am better than you.' and that's about all we got from him..like, Skyrim can't even actually establish what his goal is.

nimble pond
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I hear ya, but no, I just never saw him that way.

feral viper
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The ONE interaction we get which maybe offers his motivation is just 'I want to rule the world'. But meanwhile, every external interaction is about him ending the world.

So which is it?

nimble pond
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Dragons seemed pretty intelligent to me, I guess Paarthurnax left that impression. Sure, they're not perfect, but they have their own wisdoms.

feral viper
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Don't get me wrong, I think there's enough scraps there to construct a compelling antagonist, and leave you questioning whether or not you did the right thing...

But Bethesda utterly failed to deliver that potential in a coherent way.

nimble pond
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I don't like to go too, too dependent on revealing the complexity of a villain. I think it's more interesting to leave some room for the player to come to their own conclusion/judgement or interpretation of them and their reasoning.

feral viper
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Oh, absolutely.

And as I said, there's scraps that can be cobbled together in an interesting and compelling way there.

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For instance... You could piece together just enough in Skyrim to make Alduin an arrogant, but determined divine force, dedicated to what he views as his responsibility to Mundus, in the face of subversive influences who seek to undermine his duty.

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But without any direct expression of that, shaky premise that's built on largely circumstantial evidence.

In favour of a big meany narrative attempting to replicate the pop-culture Lucifer story in an incredibly ham fisted and frankly terrible way.

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Part of what makes Dagoth Ur so compelling and enduring an antagonist, is the exploration of his past and motivations.

And Mankar and Alduin simply don't have that.

pale walrus
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That does open the question - was Alduin's intention to 'devour the world' as in sit down to a double bacon cheeseburger and thick cut fries, or to rule over it tyrannically as the Big Boss, with all the dragons serving as his soldiers and caporegimes?

feral viper
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I personally prefer the former. His job, his reason for existing, was to turn the Kalpa by consuming Nirn. When that purpose is disrupted, he turned to subjugation to try and root out the cause. But even his oppression was born out of the pursuit of his divine duty.

nimble pond
feral viper
nimble pond
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That's generally Bethesda, they give you just enough to play with in order to come to your own conclusion.

feral viper
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I go so far as to use Dragonborn to explain problems with Alduin and the dragons behaviour in the base game.

nimble pond
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I mean at least he has a brain and is an intelligent creature and can talk, lol. It's not like you're fighting a zombie or something that is just evil for the sake of being evil.

feral viper
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Or like fighting Dagon in Oblivion...

Spend all this time building him up as the invader, and then BAM! Its his henchman you h actually deal with.

nimble pond
feral viper
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Overall point though... The best antagonists are those who you can sympathise with. Who have points, and where the main point of contention lies not in their goals or ideals, but rather in their methods.

nimble pond
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For me, I'm terribly bored with the often used sob-story to explain why someone turned evil/bad. Like, save it for the tip of my blade bro. So if they gonna go that route, it would have to be interestingly-enough complex beyond the cliché villain explaining typically used throughout all forms of story-telling (not just in video games). I mean if it comes down to choosing between a villain being evil just because they're evil or the I'm a villain because I have a complex past.. I will gladly take Dr. Evil everytime, lol.

feral viper
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Oh, absolutely. There's a lot more range than just 'Something something murdered family'

nimble pond
feral viper
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A great example are the Devils of D&D. They are undeniably, unequivocally evil. But they're compelling because of what they are, how they came to be, and what they do.

To them, their evil is a necessity of their eternal war against the Abyss. They are the hardened, amoral veterans of cosmic conflict, locked in perpetual battle with the all consuming chaos of the Demons.

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To them, their evil is a pragmatic necessity of fueling the very war that saves all reality from being consumed by the Abyss. Compassion, hope, generosity... These are weaknesses which get you killed.

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And who can really say they're wrong? They've successfully held back the Abyss for eons.

granite star
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In what section can I talk about "the elder scrolls 6"?

nimble pond
livid ingot
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If you guys could tell the employees at Bethesda to look at one game by another publisher as an example to learn from or emulate (in whole or in part) what game would that be?

eager remnant
forest surge
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Look at ESO and remember that Worldbuilding is so integral.

feral viper
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Vermintide. Combat in Bethesda games is so outdated, it might as well go back to dice rolls. At least a game where combat FEELS good and impactful would be a step in the right direction.

nimble pond
pale walrus
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I'd tell BGS to look at Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal, and ask them to never, ever, EVER borrow anything from those titles. For titles worthy of study and potential emulation (at least partially) - the original Deus Ex. Also System Shock 2.

granite star
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Hi everyone. For "the elder scrolls 6", who hopes that it has a/brings back the "unarmed/hand to hand skill tree"?

feral viper
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I do. But like most things, it needs a lot of work.

pale walrus
copper holly
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The best trailer ever made in games, from Bethesda UK - contradict me... - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuHWWC9xxmk

YouTube
Bethesda Softworks UK
The Elder Scrolls Online – The Three Fates Cinematic Trailer Superc...

In The Elder Scrolls Online, three alliances struggle for control of the Ruby Throne and Tamriel itself. The chaos of war engulfs the Imperial province of Cyrodiil, and sinister forces from Oblivion seek to take advantage of the Empire’s instability, hatching a scheme to enslave all mortal souls. Released originally in four separate parts, this ...

▶ Play video
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😄

toxic scroll
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i feel like Bethesda's ability to story tell has dwindled over the years

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they need better story teller content

feral viper
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It's actually gotten better since the low point of Oblivion.

But better, does not necessarily mean good.

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Starfield is objectively the best storytelling they've done in the last 2 decades. But even then, it has some glaring pacing, characterisation and content hole issues that hold it back.

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Considering the standard for storytelling in video games ranges somewhere between basic competence, and mediocrity though, I think it's something of a secondary issue.

It's gameplay that games live or die on.

toxic scroll
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if game play is trash then what's the point? Starfield was impressive as a novelty, but the gameplay is meh at best

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it just feels like theres no artform to it any more, just a money making strategy

feral viper
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I'd go so far as to say there hasn't BEEN any artform to it. Bethesda's gameplay has always been functional, and that's about it.

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Their solution has never been to do things well, it's always been to just do more than others. And that worked for years.

Problem is, the industry has caught up, and quickly gone past them. So while everyone is now making open world games, RPG and otherwise, for the 2020s, Bethesda is still making them for the late 2010s.

spare anchor
feral viper
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And because of this, Bethesda really needs to look at what they want to be able to do, in totality, and design for that from square one.

No more tossing things in willy nilly, leaving them at 'It just works' and moving on to the next thing..

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A prime example of this issue is Unconscious, and EM weapons in Starfield. It shows that, at some point, someone thought 'Itd be cool if', and it was just put in there to the point where an EM weapon could knock someone out... And that's it.

There's no way to interact with them further. No tracking for non-fatal combat. No bounties. No nothing.

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Morrowind had a similar problem, with unarmed attacks damaging Stamina to the point where you could knock someone out, but again... The game had absolutely nothing further to do with this state. And it was such an absolute pain to get to said state in the first place, it might as well not have been there in the first place.

pale walrus
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Once again - the main complaint (other than delays between new titles) boils down to storytelling. I don't want to be too harsh, but one of the things that stood out in a negative aspect in Skyrim - a game which I greatly enjoyed regardless - is the frequency of 'go to the place, get the thing and bring it back to me' quests. Another thing of which I really don't want to see more: radiant quests. I could imagine them having use in terms of creating opportunities for further exploration on a given map, but they can also become a 'crutch' of sorts used to fill in content/activity in the laziest of ways.

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I still like the idea of hiring outside talent - maybe even on a contractual basis - that could, with proper guidance, generate compelling stories/narratives. Sure, it would cost money. But given how well ES titles sell (with skyrim being a real standout at 20M copies), this would probably be a minor expense.

feral viper
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While I DO have problems with the storytelling, I still maintain that the gameplay is where they need the most work.

Look at Nintendo. They're practically the poster boys for 'No body cares if you tell the same story for the 30th time if the game is fun to play'.

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Focus on making a good GAME first. Then you can build a good story.

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Bethesda's writing and storytelling hasn't been great, sure, but it's also not been the worst thing going. And it has been steadily improving since Oblivion. So while it's still got a long way to go, progress is progress.

If it hits the level of Zach Snyder, I'll start to worry.

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All of that said, I don't like just ranting about what's wrong, and leveling constant criticism. Though I do feel like I end up doing that a lot.

Rather, I prefer to highlight a failing, and then at least try to drive conversation around approaching and potential resolving those failings.

nimble pond
toxic scroll
toxic scroll
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i mean... a simple 8 bit game like final fantasy 3 had such a great story

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or even 2 for that matter

pale walrus
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Something I remember from Skyrim which I would like to see in ES6: the care that was taken (usually) with making the overall scenery very attractive. I remember more than once taking my PC down a path or across an area and noticing something in the distance - a hill, a forest, a valley - and just from its appearance, feeling compelled to get closer and look at it in more detail. I have a great love of artistry - the physical background matters a great deal to me. One place where the devs seem to have stumbled badly was the physical environment of the Reach. It looked terribly stark, bare, denuded. I found that area to be crushingly depressing. Contrast that with the valley/canyon that proceeds from Whiterun province up into the northern mountains and crosses over into the very ancient area on the other side of the pass where there are very old nordic ruins that include the building where you can place all the dragon priest masks. Also, look at Haarfingar. There's not a lot going on there, but the physical environment is still quite beautiful.

pale walrus
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Just remembered: that Skyrim location is Labyrinthian.

feral viper
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Alright, I have to make a community statement directed specifically at the Elder Scrolls Community.

Get your Dagoth Ur memes out of my Aeldari dataslate nerfs.

That is all.

slow garnet
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I think the "stark, bare, denuded" basically IS a lot of the Reach. It's been fought over by Skyrim, Cyrodiil and High Rock for centuries... in the brief 2nd-Era reign of the Longhouse Emperors it even managed to come out on top for a while.

eager remnant
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The Reach is my second-favoite area in any single-player Elder Scrolls game (after Skyrim's The Rift). Its rocky grandeur, deep scenic ravines and plunging waterfalls are unmatched, in my opinion, by anything Bethesda Game Studios had created prior to Skyrim and are a match for the most scenic vistas in Fallout 76's West Virginia (which is my favorite BGS landscape to date).

feral viper
#

I'm in Pseron's side on this one. I adored the Reach.

But I also liked the vast barren beauty of some of Starfield's environments, so I may just be nutters.

eager remnant
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(face palm) I completely forgot about Starfield. There were several planets whose magnificent desolation filled me with awe. They gave me the feeling of being all alone in a vast universe, which I'm sure was the reason Bethesda created so many planets. A mere one or two planets would never give me that feeling of inifinte possibilities, of wondering what else was way out there in the fathest reaches of space (which is a vital part of the story being told).

feral viper
#

Yeah. I think there may have been a bit of a generational divide in the reception there... I'm not old enough to have seen the Moon Landing, but I do remember my first experience seeing the Moon for the first time.

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But that's not specifically TES related. As while I did really enjoy some of Starfield's environments, I think Fallouts have generally been better than either.

Though I'm not sure if that's because of better real world references, or technical limitations.

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But one major shortcoming in TES in particular, is it's cities and towns. Morrowind had a handful of good ones, but on the whole... They feel more like theme park gift shops than anything.

Oblivion was especially egregious in this regard, with practically everything feeling like a themed avenue at Disneyland to me than anything approaching a city or town.

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Of course, I've never BEEN to Disneyland, so it's definitely a perceptive thing there. But it's the facade of past urbanity, with all the flow and design of a modern city. And its always just felt... So fake.

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Starfield and Fallout largely get away with this, by basically BEING modern cities with a sci-fi face lift.

But the grime, claustrophobia, colours and sounds and sensations of the cities of the past are absolutely absent from every TES city.

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Of course, then you have the problem of filling said cities. And since Skyrim, BGS has definitely leaned on the 'Bodies not People' side of that argument.

faint perch
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"Bodies not People" is probably the reason the cities and towns seem so hollow. Half the reason for all your Whiterun and Riften issues come from so many packages updating all at once. Having zones where genric NPCs just wander fills it without such a harsh load.

pale walrus
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Couple of things regarding cities and towns:

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  1. Skyrim's cities were far too empty. Only Solitude started to approach a 'populated' feel, and it was still somewhat sparse. Windhelm and Whiterun looked like cities but were nearly ghost towns. I would like to see ES6 have cities with more people, and without question the market area should have LOTS of people.
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  1. The towns were ridiculous. It wasn't just that there were maybe a half dozen people there. It was also the fact that none except Riverwood had any kind of fortifications. With all the beasties roaming around the province, it was simply beyond belief.
faint perch
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You never talked to the guy that lived outside the walls of Riften did you?

pale walrus
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LOL! Can't recall what he might have said.

faint perch
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It boils down to, "Living inside walls is for milk drinkers."

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Some of the town overhauls add defenses to the towns. Lookout towers, battlements and such. But I could see the Nords not wanting heavy defenses cause it's just part of their way of life.

eager remnant
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Bolli: "Talen my friend, up for some fishing this week?"
Talen-Jei: "I don't know Bolli. It's getting dangerous outside the walls."
Bolli: "Oh come now, what's a dragon or two compared to a day full of fishing!"

opaque ingot
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Happy possible 30th birthday elder scrolls! March 25th however is the “official” release date for arena.

pale walrus
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By the way - we're missing something about ES6 that ought to be obvious to us. I'm certain of it. Here's why:

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The events of ES2-4 were reflected in ES5 as being precursors to the crisis illustrated on Alduin's Wall in Sky Haven temple in the Reach. The defeat of Alduin in Sovngarde suggests the completion of the Last Dragonborn prophecy and the conclusion of the effects of the preceding 3 crises. So: if that's correct, then maybe ES6 will mark the beginning of a new set of crises. This suggests that some sort of destabilizing event with far-reaching repercussions will occur, and even its resolution will have consequences that forewarn of more problems in the future.

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I could see the title having a beginning that evokes a sense of chaos. Perhaps the nords were successful in breaking away from Imperial control and Cyrodiil, finding itself in a particularly weakened state, could not resist the combined forces of the Khajiit, Bosmer, Altmer and perhaps even the Argonians in a resumption of hostilities, resulting in the loss of the Imperial City and a fracturing between the Colovian and Nibenese halves of the province. I could also see the Nords preoccupied with a Falmer invasion that has them struggling for their very existence. The Thalmor could then instruct the Argonians to keep the Dunmer 'pinned' and have the Bosmer and Khajiit focus on tieing up Colovian and Nibenese forces. If, at the same time, High Rock were to fall into disorder (entirely possible, since its kingdoms are traditionally not united), this would leave Hammerfell completely isolated and unable to call for help from any quarter should the Thalmor try again to conquer the province.

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The crisis for HF would then not be something attributable to Satakal/Alduin trying to eat the world; that's already not in the cards. It would have to involve something else. What, though?

feral viper
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Because the inhabitants are more PEOPLE, than they are BODIES. They're interactive, they're permanent, they each have at least some attempt at character and personality.

The aren't just drones filling up space, throwing bodies into a scene to make it look like a crowd.

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There are mechanical ways to address this problem, of course. Not everyone NEEDS to be a deep an involved character. Development and refinement of Radiant AI could have allowed for a lot of population of larger urban areas, without having to manually establish every single characters role

I mean... Hell, I've seen Minecraft mods effectively do it. Minus any sort of dialogue interaction of course, but even that can be worked around.

clear compass
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any one know if ESO is cross platform ps5/xbox/pc ?

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i remember it wasnt a while back hopinh things changed

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nvm its not, just ps5 -ps4 and xbox with xbox along with just pc playhers does not support console with pc player..

dense crow
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Has there ever been any word on the possibility of more Elder Scrolls novels?

feral viper
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Unfortunately there has never been any word.

narrow hornet
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I don't plan on playing ES6 given it's going to be Xbox exclusive. My brother was excited for it too I think, but we both decided we'll stick to Skyrim given the inevitable exclusivity of ES6.

eternal forge
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Play on PC

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I started Skyrim on PS3 when it came out and quickly switched over to PC. I never console gamed again

pale walrus
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Who knows what the ES6 PC HW requirements will be, though. We might not see the title until 2030, and even the best CPUs, GPUs, SRAM and Flash drives of today might be insufficient. But with consoles, BGS has to meet an exact system specification.

feral viper
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Yeah... I just don't understand Consoles. Why would anyone be a dedicated to an inherently inferior system with less utility? The only reason to get a console is cost, and even that isn't that different these days.

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I get complaining about exclusives even less. Sure, Exclusives are inherently predatory and driven by console manufacturers to move consoles, not sell games, but like...

If it's not going to be on your platform, DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO IT. It has no meaningful impact on a person's life of they skip a game or not.

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I've been a PC gamer almost exclusively for 20 years. Know what happens when I hear about a PS or Nintendo exclusive game?

I don't bother remembering it, and i move on.

pale walrus
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I am also a PC gamer exclusively. Don't really see the need to get a console. Surprised neither the Desktop/Laptop system houses or the console makers have tried to expand their HW and SW architectures in order to muscle in on each other's market spaces to drive some new growth. Maybe there's a technical reason preventing that (though I'd be surprised if it was insurmountable.)

feral viper
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I suspect it's more legal. Publishing licenses being what they are.

But that's going down a rabbit hole that quickly wanders off the path of allowed topics.

Point being... Once again, Developers don't owe consumers anything. Not do consumers owe developers anything. It is a purely transactional relationship.

If they aren't even OFFERING it on your platform, don't pay attention to it. Like, would you wander into the auto section at Walmart and complain that the windshield wipers you wanted aren't compatible with your car? No, you'd just ignore those ones and get the wipers that are compatible.

eager remnant
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Anyway, to get back to TES VI. I'm of two minds about population density. I have used mods that add NPCs to cities in Obivion and Skyrim and more often than not I find them frustating. The NPCs are continually in the way. Everywhere I want to go, I run into an NPC and have to go around them. I end up thinking Bethesda put just about the right amount of NPCs in their cities: enough so that they don't feel completely empty but not so much that they are contstantly in your way wherever you go.

faint perch
faint perch
feral viper
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And our prices here in Canada are universally higher for electronics than in the States.

faint perch
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https://www.engadget.com/nvidia-rtx-4070-ti-super-and-4080-super-review-183034039.html?src=rss
Engadget calls a graphics card that costs $1000 "a far solid value for demanding gamers." How did we get to a place where that much for a graphics card is considered a "value?"

Engadget
NVIDIA RTX 4070 Ti Super and 4080 Super review: Two faster GPUs, on...

NVIDIA's RTX 4070 Ti Super and 4080 Super are bother faster than the original cards, but the 4080 Super's $200 discount makes it far more compelling.

feral viper
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A 4080 super is most definitely NOT a 'Cheap' RTX. It's upper mid range.

faint perch
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If I'm going to buy a PC, it needs to be better than my Xbox.

gloomy anchor
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please move this conversation to #tech-chat as it is not about elder scrolls

feral viper
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Indeed. This is tangental, and not actually disputing anything I said. Consoles ARE cheaper, and you're getting an inferior product for that cheaper price.

feral viper
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They're a standee filling out a crowd.

pale walrus
# eager remnant Anyway, to get back to TES VI. I'm of two minds about population density. I ha...

Understood. What I'm looking for is that 'lived in' look and feel. For instance: Solitude wasn't bad in that respect. It was large enough for my tastes to be considered a city. It could have used some more people, but not hordes. I would have liked to see the city a bit more 'enriched' - maybe more than one apparel store, more than one pub, an open market that's actually a bit busy. Notice how there was a blacksmith AND a weapons dealer, specializing in archery - that was good, and a little more might be nice as well. Even a horse-drawn cart of carriage coming down the road, and then maybe a squad of troopers marching off. Yes, it makes it more busy and might even be a bit inconvenient, but there's a useful balance to be struck. Also, having the city be a bit more busy opens up opportunities for creating some adventures/quests/tasks. Security at the open market, a bank getting robbed, contraband smuggling, pickpockets, burglary, a nefarious plot or two underway to undermine the city administration or perhaps a business or two, etc...Riften had a bit of this, and so did Windhelm, both in different proportions. I'd turn it up a notch or two. Just a personal preference, I don't expect anyone to see it exactly my way.

eager remnant
pale walrus
hidden herald
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You know, I wonder how expensive in-universe advanced magical artifacts would be, like not the unique ones but ones made in bulk for certain utility purposes.

pale walrus
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Uhhhh.....are you asking what the per unit cost might be if, say, somebody went to a mage and asked him to enchant 1000 swords to do serious extra lightning or fire or frost damage? I bet that wouldn't be cheap. If it were, every army in Tamriel would have magic armor and weaponry issued as standard equipment, and powerful magical weapons and armor would be quite common.

feral viper
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Ultimately impossible to know without an actual magic system. TES still has no real explanation for how magic and spellcasting works, so it's impossible to really guess how expensive of difficult to create purpose-made magical enchantments or applications would be.

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On top of that, there's no actual economic model in place that would allow for any rough estimate of exchange value.

forest surge
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What would be the first ever Mage? A High Elf?

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The Aldmer?

pale walrus
eager remnant
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Just watched IGN's video on character creation in Dragon's Dogma 2 tonight. I will be very happy if TES VI has this level of customizability. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yv17QEjOUA

YouTube
IGN
Dragon’s Dogma 2: In-Depth Look at the Character Creator – IGN Firs...

Dragon's Dogma 2's character creator uses hundreds of photos of human faces to power its photogrametry technology, giving a tremendous amount of customization when it comes to creating both your Arisen, and your pawn. Find out more in our deep dive into Dragon's Dogma 2's character creation, as part of our IGN First coverage.

▶ Play video
pale walrus
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Lots of flexibility and options in character creation as seen in the video is a very, very good idea. I'd bet it would be really popular with the player base.

stuck minnow
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Good people of the web, i come with fair tiddings

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news circulating round the net, that starfield might release on ps5

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Know what that potentionally could bring ?

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The elder scrolls 6, could possibly release on ps5, the Sacreds of spoken, peace (y)

feral viper
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IF it does, then that'd be fine. Ultimately, the wider the market, the better the sales tend to be. But that's a decision that is entirely out of BGSs hands, and is dependent on both Microsoft and Sony (who could just deny the licensing). As such, it's not worth worrying about on our level

feral viper
forest surge
dusk iron
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Why did you delete my message

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Its about tes6

spare plaza
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It's against #rules under Conspiracy Theories and Misinformation, since nothing has been announced by us

dusk iron
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I said it could not it will

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That means im guessing

spare plaza
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If you have a question/concern about #rules or Moderation, contact us via DM @vast rain .

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This is not the place to discuss this, nor what I deleted

dusk iron
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Bro what

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I literally said im guessing

spare plaza
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If you have a question/concern about ⁠rules or Moderation, contact us via DM <@&842429330478071858> .

gloomy anchor
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As he stated, if you would like to discuss it, please use @vast rain

dusk iron
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Idk how to use it

spare plaza
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DM the user @vast rain

dusk iron
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Tes was always my favorite game its sad to see this

feral viper
forest surge
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Not a reveal perse but I think it was mentioned when the whole Magic customization aspect was brought up.

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Regardless it’s interesting to think about, would an Aldmer be the 1st Mage?

feral viper
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Some sort of Mer, most likely. Though I'd honestly say Aldmer and not Altmer.

forest surge
pale walrus
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Wait - the aldmer fanned out from aldmeris to populate tamriel and atmora. However, they discovered beastfolk in tamriel. That means the beastfolk were there first. Also, we have no idea when Akavir was populated or by whom, though it's apparently all beastfolk now (even though that might not be true of the Tsaesci.) Humans were almost certainly not the first people of the dawn era - after all, if the myth is true, Kyne breathed on the Throat of the World and humans sprung up from that, spreading out across Tamriel and up to Atmora and - presumably - Yokuda. But Topal the Pilot didn't see any humans when he first explored Tamriel. And finally, we have to consider the Sload. When did they first make an appearance?

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With all that in mind, I suspect that the first mage could easily be from the beastfolk/betmer. We cannot discount the Sload or any of the Akaviri peoples, though.

forest surge
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The First Mage could be anyone but I wouldn’t be surprised if it is an Aldmer

stuck minnow
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The dawn of the UNIgame is almost near, one software connecting everyone, walls will be broken, alliances will be forged, IT HAS BEGUN

feral viper
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Based on the 'Standard' mythos, Aldmer and 'Wanderers' came first. Then Kyne and Lorkhan shaped some of the Wanderers into Men. The remaining Wanderers then, presumably, became the various Beast Folk.

Then the war happened, resulting in the Men being scattered and the Aldmer starting to divide politically.

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So at day 1 of the Merethic, men, Beast Folk, and at least a few Merish peoples were already scattered around Nirn. And the Aldmer either on their way out, or already gone.

nimble pond
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I must be lost on this topic, I thought the first mage was Magnus?

feral viper
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I don't think they're counting the god of magic.

hidden herald
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TBH the lore on the origins of magic, at least for mortals of Nirn, is one of the areas they are covering in the upcoming chapter for ESO, so we might learn more on game sourced lore on this then.

feral viper
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Alas, given the absolute shambles that I'd Magic in general in TES, it remains to be see what the result of that attempt to explore it may be.

forest surge
feral viper
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In a practical sense, the line there would be blurry to non-existent. As all life ARE magical spirits effectively trapped in prescribed forms.

nimble pond
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Would magic have ever existed without Magnus? Or was it just already there in Aetherius when it was created

feral viper
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Magic as a broader concept is inherent, it seems.

Magic using Magicka seems to be distilled through Magnus. Effectively making it easier for Mortals to harness.

pale walrus
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This could get super interesting. ESO has done a widely respected job with lore development. There's reason to hope that they will do a good job here too. Hopefully that will turn out to be the case. Maybe this 'first archmage' will be something like the first 'dragonborn' - a person who has a very close relationship with Magnus and was given this ability as a gift to be used on behalf of that person's people.

nimble pond
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I read a pretty good interpretation of it on reddit. Imo, Magnus is the first mage, God or not

nimble pond
hidden herald
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The story behind creation and Magnus will likely get some more information coming with the Gold Coast chapter in June this year.
We got some more lore on it in the PTS, but since that is future content subject to change, no spoilers 😛

pale walrus
# nimble pond Maybe it is just me, but that'd be odd. Seeing as how Magnus chose to ditch Mund...

Think of it this way: Lorkhan tricked the Aedra into creating Mundus. They all got mad and slew him, even cutting out his heart and throwing it away. But afterwards, Akatosh/Auriel became a patron of both Man and Mer. Arkay, Kyne, and all the other of the 8 original 'divines' assumed roles supportive of the sapient races (including beastfolk) of Nirn/Mundus. So maybe Magnus found somebody for whom he wanted to act as a patron, giving that person special abilities in magic and training that individual. Of course, we won't have the full story until ESO presents it, but I'm hoping it will be a thoughtfully developed piece of lore.

shy glen
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im playing morrowind but some reason my screen won't fit to screen it take half of it it still works but i want to make it full scretch

feral viper
pale walrus
feral viper
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Maaaan. WTB cool Tsaesci, like Conan Snakemen.

pale walrus
feral viper
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Want To Buy

dim reef
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I wonder what the next elder scrolls rpg game will be like and how the story would play out according to Skyrim

pale walrus
dim reef
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I wonder if elder scrolls 6 will be on disc and digital instead of just digital

feral viper
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Due to its likely console launches, it will PROBABLY have physical copies. For the total waste that those are now.

gentle dragon
feral viper
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Which is still a waste. But less of a waste.

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Ultimately, we are again hitting the phase where games are too large to be adequately carried by disc media. Unless they start selling them on USBs (which would be even more costly and ultimately wasteful) then digital downloads are the only options. And when it becomes a practical necessity, the novelty value of physical media simply drops.

faint perch
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Single use storage just isn't keeping pace with our storage needs.
Though now we are on tech chat rather than ES chat.

forest surge
feral viper
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The assumption that ownership and physical media are linked is inherently flawed too.

Physical media just... Isn't economically necessary. As limited run collectors items? Sure. But as a cornerstone of distribution? Naw dog, this ain't the dark ages anymore.

feral viper
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If I want a collector's edition physical media item for TES6, I want it printed on vellum. In Binary.