#elder-scrolls-general-chat

1 messages · Page 8 of 1

forest surge
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I like to hope that if an afterlife exists, we can play video games in it, therefore we can play each entry going forward.

dusk iron
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and we can time travel in afterlife

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and play all new tes games

feral viper
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I don't know about the rest of you, but I intend to witness Heat Death. So i will outlive the universe

dusk iron
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I wish this exists this afterlife just to play new elder scrolls

feral viper
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And only when the last star fades, and the last joule bleeds into the cold void. I shall say 'Aight, good run. Imma tap out now'

forest surge
feral viper
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I'm already mad

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Between Warcraft, Halo, Warhammer (Fantasy, Sigmar and 40k) Forgotten Realms, and Might and Magic Ashan... Along with real world, actually useful information... Madness consumed me before Bethesda switched to discord

dusk iron
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I dont play ESO

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is it good

feral viper
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It is a very different game, mechanically.

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But it's lore is pretty much the best we've had since Morrowind.

dusk iron
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I like singleplayer games most

feral viper
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Both have their place for me.

dusk iron
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Is game active in players

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I love Morrowind theme I listen sometimes

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Its so goodd

feral viper
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Best soundtrack in the franchise, imo

forest surge
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I mean yeah, there’s a reason it became the main theme in different arrangements for the series going forward since.

feral viper
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Not Soule's best work though, imo

forest surge
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There’s one game which had a very iconic piece of music so it becomes the Music to identify that franchise.

feral viper
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Soule's best is Total Annihilation.

dusk iron
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Wonder if VI will have chill theme Like that

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Or something fire like skyim theme

eager remnant
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Please do not spread misinformation. Neither Howard nor Bethesda Softworks has stated that TES VI will be Howard's last game.

forest surge
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3’s the original version.

feral viper
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Probably a bit of both. Though I suspect it will depend largely on the tone of the game.

dusk iron
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For ign Interview I believe

feral viper
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Eeeeh... It's been taken out of context.

dusk iron
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I seen the clip lol

feral viper
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While he did TECHNICALLY say that, it was more in reference to his last TES game, due to the long development times at BGS.

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Not his last GAME, but maybe his last TES

dusk iron
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True

feral viper
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And he didn't say it would be. He said it MAY be, with how long it takes them to make games, and given his age.

dusk iron
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So he did technically said that

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Its not missinformation

eager remnant
dusk iron
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Alright alright

feral viper
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'Is his last game' is also significantly different than 'May be my last TES game'.

dusk iron
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I get it

feral viper
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Specificity is important. It's like that infuriating EA thing

dusk iron
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Hopefully its not his last but he will be old by then

feral viper
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EA never said 'Single player games are dead'. And yet the lie that they did, spread like wildfire

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To the point where it's basically taken for granted now.

dusk iron
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I hate ea anyway

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Singleplayer is the best mod

feral viper
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I tend to reserve my hate for things that deserve it.

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A corporation functioning exactly as intended... Is not one of those things.

dusk iron
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Sp never dies

feral viper
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No, it doesn't. However, what they ACTUALLY said has turned out to be very, very true.

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EA was right, in the end. The particular format of single player games they talked about is very much dying, to the point where it might as well be dead

dusk iron
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What format

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Maybe like linear games

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There is no linear games anymore

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Expect gow

feral viper
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Linear, single point, no support, fire and forget single player games.

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Even GoW is semi-open world.

dusk iron
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This why im sick of Open world genre im only looking for bgs Open world games like tes starfield

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Others became so boring

feral viper
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Some are alright. I've never been keen on the Ubisoft format for them though.

dusk iron
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Sad there are no games like half-life anymore

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Good linear game no openworld bs

feral viper
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Sales declined and made them untenable.

dusk iron
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I guess dark souls is good linear

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Its still played well

feral viper
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It'd also rather... old at this point.

dusk iron
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Even they moved to open world elden ring

feral viper
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I can't really comment on the transition, as I don't like them.

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Only game Fromsoft has made in a decade that I'm interested in is Armoured Core.

dusk iron
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Im opposite

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Not really intersted in armored core but I like Dark souls

forest surge
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Don’t really vibe with Armored Core, prefer the souls genre of games they make.

forest surge
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Now I just remembered the Death Battle from months ago.

feral viper
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I beat Dark Souls 1 and 2, and played 30-60 min of Bloodborne, before I just realised that no amount of validation on the internet would make me actually enjoy those games.

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Haven't touched one since.

forest surge
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It’s ultimately not for everyone.

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It’s hit Mainstream status at this point, but I don’t want it to remain Open World as Elden Ring is to big for my liking.

dusk iron
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They said they make games they want they dont care what others want

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Dlc is next and probably something new later

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And armored core ofc

forest surge
feral viper
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Baldur's Gate 3 has had at least one moment that really encapsulates meaningful consequences for me. While most of the game is mired in the usual 'ChOsE yOuR pAtH' platitudes, the Dark Urge has some forced occurences which make you actually have to deal with consequences.

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There's no way around them. You can't just 'do over' and get a better outcome. They are events representing the wider agency of the world around you, not it's subservience to your whims, and YOU have to determine how YOUR character deals with that.

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And it's marvelous. That's the sort of narrative flow and actual, MEANINGFUL consequences I want to see in games. And the sort of thing I want to see in TES particularly.

river cloak
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Hey guys what’s everyone’s favourite race in ES to play

feral viper
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Dunmer. Just because I like Dark Elves.

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Beyond that, I have never actually payed attention to any stats or abilities, and generally hold Racials in contempt.

eager remnant
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Also Dunmer. I fell in love with Ashlander culture way back in Morrowind and Dunmer have been a sentimental favorite of mine ever since.

river cloak
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Ooo interesting never really played any type of elf before always a orc or human but I’m trying wood elf this time because I like there connection to nature

feral viper
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For me, it largely stems from... I'm human. Why would I play a human, when given the opportunity to do something else?

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Though in the context of TES, it doesn't really matter all that much.

livid ingot
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Orcs are my favorite. Particularly ones that subvert stereotypes about them a bit. Like my first character for Skyrim was an orc battlemage.

forest surge
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The Elder Scrolls I don’t think has ever really focused on Long Term Consequences in terms of the story being impacted in a big way via a specific decision you must make.

feral viper
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Ultimately, the stories do have consequences. And it's their lasting consequences of which help contribute to their overall world. And that's more what I mean.

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Like, Martin's sacrifice has more consequence, emotionally and narratively, than any choice we as players make in the Civil War.

forest surge
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Which I think they haven’t done since Daggerfall?

feral viper
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Well, they sorts tried it with the Civil War on Skyrim. And it was terrible, IMO

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But, it's late, and I've stated my stance on Choices in games many times... So I won't bore everyone with repetition tonight.

forest surge
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Civil War ultimately doesn’t influence the ending of the story so it was just not needed at all.

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It should have stayed outside the confines of the main story honestly.

feral viper
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Or, should have been more directly tied into it and Season Unending.

forest surge
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I don’t ultimately know how Starfield is doing Factions but I think Constellation is ultimately the main faction story wise.

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I don’t mind there not being a war for it tbh, as I am fine with this game more or less setting up the history of the world among other things.

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I know Bethesda’s projects are definitely influenced off of each other depending on what worked with fans and is improved upon later and what doesn’t and is dropped, makes me wonder very much about TESVI and Fallout V in regards to what Starfield does.

tardy tiger
feral viper
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Of course, it's not exactly for a lack of effort. The way the game engine is put together simply isn't designed for a reasonable depiction of war, and the writing team lacks the understanding of warfare to really handle the topic appropriately.

forest surge
slow garnet
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The first couple of Baldur's Gate games would have bounty hunters sent after you if you acted too evil. BG1 in partiuclar could send bounty hunters that were actually strong enough that your group could legitimately not beat them - by which I mean not "an autokill cheese mechanic" but "hey, your party's weak, there's a group of bounty hunters of similar level to the player afte you, AND even if you manage to kill them, the chances are it'll use up a good deal of your healing supplies and spells so you'll need to rest and recover, and gods help you if a second group attacks while you're trying to sleep"

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BG2 had the Cowled Wizards who would come after you if you cast a spell in the city streets... And it was possible technically to beat them. But the next group that came after you would be two levels higher if you did it again. If you got through about half a dozen groups eventually they would stop coming, and from then on you could cast spells in the street with impunity.

Or you could pay the 5000 gp for a license.

livid ingot
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I remember back in 2010 or thereabouts giving a suggestion to a modder doing a vampire overhaul to add in vampire hunters that came after you as your infamy and power rose to keep a sense of danger and tension. Seems like it worked out pretty well. Definitely always like a mechanic like this

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The Skyrim encounter of people sending thugs after you was a nice surprise

feral viper
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I've never been a fan of Fame and Infamy mechanics myself.

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They make the world feel so small

tardy tiger
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I feel it was one of their attempts to make you actions seem like they're getting around. The problem I feel was a lack a response to well if you were actually murdering people, getting caught stealing things and no one comments on you doing certain criminal quests.

feral viper
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Oh, I know what the intent is. I just think it makes the world feel miniscule in the attempt.

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These aren't modern or even semi-modern settings, with photography and the ability to plaster your name and image across the nation.

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Word of SOMEONE'S deeds is going to travel, sure, but the ability to recognise them? Nah.

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I mean, even Shakespeare was able to wander around London and not be recognised at the height of his fame. Everyone KNEW who Shakespeare was, but could they pick him out of a crowd? Hell no.

stuck minnow
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Give us flying mounts in the elder scrolls 6 like in skyrim,but you can fly as long and far.

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More freedom without sacrificing movement on the map

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Give us vampire lord form back,with the ability to fly in the air between cities and towns

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bring back custom spell making,and armor customization like oblivion

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Add features like in fallout 4 where you could make your own fort,but elder scrolls style

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I love the elder scrolls,i want this to be another superior title like oblivion

feral viper
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That said, I think flight does have a place if we aim for a larger game world. As does more structured Settlement mechanics.

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Beyond that... I don't think Oblivion has anything of value to offer.

forest surge
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Skyrim? Morrowind? Nah, I prefer talking about Oblivion the most.

feral viper
forest surge
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Your not meant to take it seriously but I prefer talking about all of them really, even the ones I haven’t played.

feral viper
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Yeah, I get that. I'm just being snarky.

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As much as I rag on it, Oblivion DOES have some improvements. On the whole, they just tend to be so few and far between that I don't think it really has much to offer that isn't better represented elsewhere.

forest surge
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Of course, Oblivion I see like Dark Souls 2, where there is people that genuinely love it but know it’s not as beloved as it’s predecessor and then sequel.

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The Middle Child essentially that people can either love or hate while the First and Third Child are the most popular among fans.

feral viper
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At the very least, it's game map was the best.

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The birds eye view maps are... Not good.

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Using an artistic, traditional sort of map in Oblivion is a choice I really hope they repeat in TES6.

eager remnant
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The two things I like about Oblivion are the landscape and the music.

slow garnet
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If you want flight back... think also of the possibility of flying enemies that can see you and attack you in the air as well as from the air... RememberMorrowind's Cliff Racers? Maybe nothing so numerous. Also imagine aerial combat with other NPCs (e.g. wizards who can also fly).

And being able to fly over city walls rather than have the city be a separate space that you have to enter through the gate seems cool, but also brings problems of its own...

feral viper
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Problems which can be addressed of course.

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The main problem with Flying is it's ability to allow you to bypass quest and encounter triggers.

feral viper
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Which... Is a problem that could be dealt with through specific level design and more use of proximity triggers... But that would be extremely limiting...

fleet shore
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Tes;vi will possibly support arabic😳😳 arabic will look so good in the in game books

fleet shore
dim reef
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A real ork can spit into the wind and catch it in their own mouth.

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As taught by Malacath

feral viper
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Oi. Wotz dis drek aboot Mal-a-kat? Only Gork an Mork 'round dez partz.

dapper lichen
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Where can I suggest ideas for next elder scrolls game. Also is elder scrolls 6 the very last one? Or will it continue on?

dreamy goblet
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When do you think elder scrolls 6 will start developing?

dreamy goblet
eager remnant
dapper lichen
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I had an idea. If it is truely the very last elder scrolls game now would probably be a good time to add every continent in elder scrolls lore to explore with more expansive unique items artifacts and stuff to find.

dapper lichen
feral viper
dapper lichen
hot vector
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There is no elder scrolls online chat ?

chrome trellis
hot vector
dapper yew
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22 millions people play eso but some time long queed for dugeon

feral viper
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Well, 22 million is really just a measure of individual accounts. You can't actually track how many people actually play, without some serious privacy violations.

dreamy goblet
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hi, anyone know how to transfer openmw save file to steam save file in morrowind?

livid ingot
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Basically a different game that just uses Morrowind's resources to mimic the experience

hidden herald
# dapper yew 22 millions people play eso but some time long queed for dugeon

Like many games, too many people want to be DPS and not enough people want to be Tanks or Healers.
But again, this is the place for single player Elder Scrolls titles, where the only other people you'd need to worry about are companions blocking exists, alerting the entire enemy bandit camp, or dying from fall damage if they aren't essential.

dapper yew
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If anyone play NA ps server join me

dim reef
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Hello! Does anyone know of an Elder Scrolls avatar creator, for making an avatar to use for profile pictures? Or a Bethesda style creator?

night violet
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Not that i can find. I usually go to Etsy with in game pictures of said character and commission something

barren knot
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does anyone play ESO on series S? I am curious how it is and how the community is. I am in usa so NA server. I am tempted to do an "original" playthrough like make an EP character and play main story and faction wars then the dlc in order

river cloak
barren knot
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@river cloak im glad your enjoying it! I am tempted to get a series x in future but I have very limited funds being on social security and I only tend to alot about $100 or so a month towards games and thats pushing limits of my buget after all my bills. I may put to the side a handful of money each month and upgrade in a year or so if its a huge improvement

river cloak
runic girder
dapper yew
nimble pond
forest surge
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I mean you can say what you want but there is that crowd after Morrowind who believes the series was becoming more simple and even the crowd from Oblivion who thought the same with Skyrim. It’s already known Bethesda was simplifying things as games went on. It’s a constant worry among people that it will get more and more simplified as tome goes one.

feral viper
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Yes, but a crowd doesn't make an argument correct.

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People can still be wrong, even if others agree with them.

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And the simple, factual reality, is that Skyrim allowed for far more diversity in character building and RPG mechanics than either Morrowind or Oblivion.

They were generally poorly used, sure, but they were there.

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For instance, the common complaint amongst the 'Crowd' is that it's too easy to master everything in Skyrim, compared to earlier games.

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However, this is factually false. In reality, Skyrim was the first game since Arena where it was literally impossible to master everything, at least until the Dragonborn patch.

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And even after that patch, it still requires a hundred hours of EXTRA work compared to both Morrowind and Oblivion.

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In general, Oblivion was the MOST oversimplified of the games. Cutting out extra Skills without actually adding anything to make up for them. Literally all Oblivion did was remove RPG options, while adding nothing of its own.

forest surge
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Yes but even then the Masses won’t see it that way, opinions remain in place for many and to this day still do.

feral viper
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Oh, I'm fully aware of that.

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I just don't accept wrong opinions without confrontation

slow garnet
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Also, both Morrowind and Skyrim have mutually exclusive faction loyalties, Oblivion has no comparable equivalent.

Morrowind has its Three Great Houses of Vvardenfell (the other two Great Houses don't have any holdings on Vvardenfell: Mournhold is in the lands of the Indoril but you don't get the option to join them, and House Dres barely get a mention outside of a few lorebooks). Morrowind also had the late-game conflict between the Fighters and Thieves Guilds that had two possible endings depending on whom you sided with.

And, to a lesser extent, a conflict between the Mages Guild and House Telvanni, though that could only be seen if you completed the main game before becoming Archmage of the Mages Guild, AND then talked to Trebonius Artorius after completing his first quest ("find out what caused the disappearance of the Dwemer") and thus got his second quest ("Kill all the Telvanni Masters") before qualifying for the Archmage rank: the quest wouldn't be given if you still needed the support of at least one living Telvanni Master to become Hortator (Aryon being the one you have to keep alive: the others can safely be killed, this is House Telvanni after all - though Master Neloth got a canonical reprieve in Skyrim, set 200 years later), and couldn't be completed if Archmage Trebonius had been retired, either peacefully (with the letter from Chancellor Ocato) or violently (by challenging him to a duel in Morrowind's Arena District.)

Skyrim has its 2 sides of the Civil War and the option to destroy the Dark Brotherhood after being offered membership and refusing it, rather than simply the choice of never doing anything that attracts their attention (and retaining the option of doing so in the future).

Oblivion had no mutually-exclusive factions: you could become a master of all sides, all factions and all quests in one playthrough - there wasn't anything you could do that would lock you out of something else.

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(Incidentally, I assume in my own headcanon that therefore Trebonius's quest to "kill all the Telvanni masters" is a "non-canonical option" and thus didn't happen in what passes for Elder Scrolls canon.)

fiery quest
feral viper
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It's largely based in 'Am fun, thus good'. Where it should be far more thoughtful. WHY is it fun? How does it achieve that fun? Can it be improved on?

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Something that's poorly made and poorly executed can still be fun. And subscribing to that fun alone can it's self stifle innovation and improvement.

forest surge
feral viper
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Oh, absolutely. Fun is PART of the equation. The issue is the overemphasis of it without critical examination.

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Because that examination leads to improvement, which can lead to an ultimate increase in Fun.

river cloak
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Fell in love with murkmire on eso VBThumbsUp reminds me of navi from avatar

feral viper
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Alright, well. After 100 hours in BG3, I can safely say... I still hate traditional Dialogue, and want Fallout 4s system back for TES6

livid ingot
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Never played FO4. What's unique about the dialogue system?

feral viper
# livid ingot Never played FO4. What's unique about the dialogue system?

Basically, it offloaded Dialogue Selection to secondary inputs (in the case of PC, the D-Pad). This allowed primary inputs, such as Movement and Look controls, to remain unaffected, giving you fill and continuous control of your character throughout dialogue. The menu it's self was context sensitive, and would come up when you looked at a NPC, but you could otherwise act as normal.

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They then made some... Questionable artistic choices (Topical dialogue for a voiced PC, near total lack of nested dialogue options, that terrible Cinematic camera that locked out most of the systems advantages for the sake of looking like a BioWare ripoff) which heavily soured the entire playerbase on what was actually a brilliant system.

livid ingot
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Sounds like classic Bethesda. Brilliant conception, botched landing

feral viper
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Mmhmm

forest surge
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For many people they don’t want a voiced character in Franchises like TES or Fallout because they went so long without one that having one is just not something many are keen on.

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Where as Mass Effect since the beginning had one, these franchises did not, so it felt more at home there than it did in another series that hadn’t done it till then.

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Could it have done better in Fallout 4? Yes. But would everyone have just readily welcomed it? Not necessarily.

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There’s also the fact that Player Imagination is a thing and for many they would rather imagine the sound of there voice for there character rather than have One forced upon you.

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If Starfield had done it as a new franchise it probably wouldn’t be out of place, but for many they just associate Bethesda with Fallout and Elder Scrolls and some of them wouldn’t want a voiced protagonist in Starfield either.

feral viper
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But it soured peoples options of the SYSTEM,

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It's like saying you don't like Salted Caramels, because someone made them look like dog turds covered in rock salt.

forest surge
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It’s already made clear Bethesda aren’t gonna do it again and honestly I’m fine with it not returning

dim reef
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Elder Scrolls 6 do you think it might have more races to play with

feral viper
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Unlikely.

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We've been pretty solidly sat at 10 for the last 2 decades

feral viper
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You can have the system without a voiced PC without any issues. All the system does, is allow for seamless transition between Combat, Dialogue and Exploration. Which is something everyone should want.

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Instead, most people just see the poor choices that were made in the use of the system, and we're back to the out dated and clunky Talking Heads.

dark dagger
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So when’s this elder scroll 6 coming out

eager remnant
dapper yew
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Yesterday is history tomorrow is mystery but today is gift 🎁 that is why called presents

dim reef
feral viper
dusk iron
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theory: 2028

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5 more years

hidden herald
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It will be out sometime between tomorrow and the heat death of the universe. Have patience.

devout crane
warm mauve
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Super excited for elder scrolls 6.

nimble pond
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Hoping for blacksmithing with the customization system they got going. I wanna put like 100 spikes on my sword and a tube that spits put paralyzing gas and cover the entire blade in black flame

night violet
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I just saw the article that TES VI is in full development, though it's early development. This is exciting news!

dim reef
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You able to share the article ? @night violet

feral viper
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It makes sense. Starfield launches in a week, so at present the most they can really do is last minute bug fixes, which doesn't typically require all hands. Also, DLC development has never taken the full team at Bethesda.

So focus is likely shifting towards the next major project, which is TES6.

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At best, we're looking at early stuff, like concept work and writing, but it's highly likely that the primary focus has either already shifted, or is in the process of shifting, towards TES6.

feral viper
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Man, gaming journalism has really gone down the tubes, hasn't it?

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Extrapolating a whole lot from a very vague statement

pallid plover
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about oblivion thieves guild, does independent thievery have any influence on the guild's quest line or it just serves as a record of how much money i've earned? i came across a bug that this quest doesn't update but idk whether it will affect my quest line. ty

feral viper
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It's been a while since I played Oblivion, but I believe it should track your total amount sold to Fences for the purpose of Guild progression.

pallid plover
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yeah but since i have an issue with this quest i wonder if i could proceed the quest line normally or only after i address that so i can continue to do the following quests

dusk iron
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Is this game still in pre-production

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Is it in playable state

livid ingot
dim reef
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hi guys im looking for the patch note from which the black screen issue is fixed , how can I access to the patch files to be able to download it

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Ive had the black screen problem for a week now and Ive tried all the methods but I was unable to fix it after some research Ive come to an update called Update 1.6.323 (22 november 2021)

livid ingot
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We have no information on TES 6, but it should enter full production this year

dim reef
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does anyone know where I can find this patch note ? or how to fix this black screen problem ?

livid ingot
dim reef
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thanks

night violet
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They were interviewing Pete Hines

livid ingot
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I would have expected as much. Good to get confirmation.

dusk iron
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I think its playable tes6

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Only beginning of the game

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Thats ali they made

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They are going full production this year

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And after starfield dlc

eager remnant
# night violet An article from gaming Bible said that TES VI entered full development already. ...

Yes, this is the way Bethesda has worked for decades. I'm sure that a small team began coming up with ideas for stories, quests, characters and drawing concept art, ect, after Fallout 4 went gold. As certain developer's work finished up on Fallout 76 and Starfield they were moved over to TES VI. This continued in greater numbers until ,by the time Starfield went gold, nearly the whole team was working on TES VI full time.

dusk iron
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I mean after starfield dlc they will go full

feral viper
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If any part of it is playable, the Pyramids are 12,000 years old.

dusk iron
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Peter said game is in early development

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Article is in spanish

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Interview

feral viper
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Oh, I know. But that doesn't even remotely mean anything is playable

final roost
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https://www.pcgamer.com/the-elder-scrolls-6-is-out-of-pre-production-but-pete-hines-says-it-will-be-years-before-we-start-hearing-about-it/?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR0Av5Mn9aOvYQVabXPDLW3T8xEauIHjrKeK-Fkv7jhGbIVNAcSAnb9O8Z0_aem_AU0j4_c2XZEvpa5Y3T2nCAgV5ZE-G69-4X4muKhK_A4mMz4GWInIA-AYiR-AP0ql3Ns&mibextid=Zxz2cZ#lly8yxcemvjv3q7o2qe

pcgamer
The Elder Scrolls 6 is out of 'pre-production' but Pete Hines says ...

Hines said Bethesda is focused on Starfield and that's where its attention is going to stay for a long while to come.

bitter kestrel
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A friendly reminder that this channel is for the Elder Scrolls, if you would like to discuss Starfield please use #starfield-chat

worthy solstice
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hey guys i need some help, i downloaded a mod called RK’s riverfall cottage because i wanted a cute house lmao. but i can’t get my husband and kids to move there after i bought it. i’ve been told to bless the home but idk how to download heathfire multiple adoptions for that.

spare plaza
dusk iron
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hopefully tes6 will be amazing

#

I dont know how I feel about starfield im still 4 hours in

#

hopefully there will be more spells and spellcrafting in 6

river cloak
#

No eso channels I see one for fallout 76 ?

hidden herald
#

ESO is run by Zenimax Online Studios, this discord is specifically for games under Bethesda Game Studios.
You wouldn't be able to give feedback to the ESO developers from here. They do not have an official discord for discussion, but they do have an official forum.

feral viper
#

Something I think TES could benefit from immensely is DARKNESS

#

Giving everything a high ambient light level, so you can see basically without a problem in an ancient and untouched cavern a thousand meters below the surface which hasn't seen light since the Dawn War is... Well... Not a bright idea.

dusk iron
#

I still have faith in tes6 that will be real open world game

#

I dont feel like im playing open world in starfield at all

#

but thats space game in elder scrolls we will have whole map

#

you think we will get more spells and spellcrafting

#

need it

feral viper
#

Maybe. I personally absolutely hate old Spell Crafting, and would rather not have it at all, than have that mess.

#

Though I do think there's lots of room to build an interesting system FOR Spellcrafting.

eager remnant
#

I would like to see a spellcrafting system that introduced new effects and new mechanics through spellcrafting rather than simply adding one existing spell to another existing spell. Possibly even quests to learn these things that could then be applied at the spellcrafting alter.

feral viper
#

Yeah.. things like Radius and Magnitude are boring Spellcrafting elements that only really serve to make more powerful versions of spells you already have. The only really interesting part of the old system was the ability to apply multiple effects.

#

But if you could, say, make it so a Firebolt ricocheted off walls, or a Telekenisis rune constantly went off creating a wall of force? Yeah. That'd be fun

dusk iron
#

spells are always fun

#

I cant wait 5 more years

dusk iron
#

can you do bucket on head trick in all games

#

or is that only skyrim thing

feral viper
#

Just Skyrim.

#

Previous games didn't track NPC vision the same way

dusk iron
#

but could you still do it without blocking vision

#

you can do it in starfield now

feral viper
#

Not really. The tracking didn't work in the same way, so while you COULD put something on their heads, it wouldn't necessarily interfere with their detection

#

In most cases anyway. Stealth on Oblivion and FO3 was weird.

dusk iron
#

oh understand

#

they should add some dialouge in tes6 if you put something on their head lol

#

its old iconic meme after all

feral viper
#

Give them a dedicated animation to just take it off

dusk iron
#

yeah that would be funny

maiden yacht
#

I heard es6 is just gonna be skyrim 2

dusk iron
#

there is zero information about that tes6 wasnt even in development till few days ago

scarlet patio
#

Is it just me or do y'all reckon Bethesda should've just made TES6 before Starfield?

dusk iron
#

their release order is literally tes3 tes4 fallout 3 tes5 fallout 4 fallout 76

#

it was time for new title

#

im sure 6 will hae a lot hype when its time people will forget about this game

livid ingot
#

Skyrim 2 is a just a joke to get reactions out of people

scarlet patio
dusk iron
#

will there be hate train like starfield

#

and there are mixed reactions about this game

#

so tes6 will come from starifled that had mixed launch

scarlet patio
#

I don’t actually think Starfields reception is THAT bad. A lot of people outside the Bethesda fanbase were expecting Starfield to be the next big gaming flop like Cyberpunk 2077 and Fallout 76 but instead it got a pretty good metacritic score with most people saying it’s better than Fallout 4 and worse than Skyrim

dusk iron
#

and it was also hated for being xbox exlusive

#

we dont know if es6 will be

#

series is legendary

#

im sure many people will look for it

#

wont be hated as starfield

scarlet patio
#

I haven’t played Starfield yet but to me it sounds like a good Bethesda game held back by its massive scope as Bethesda seemingly weren’t able to get the ‘open galaxy’ right. Other than that, it seems like there have been major improvements to the combat, dialogue and quests. TES6 won’t have the challenges of Starfield of being a massive open-Galaxy game and they will be able to create an epic handcrafted world and have the opportunity to make things more seamless with less loading screens

dusk iron
#

I kinda wish es6 was released before starfield

#

but that would mean its coming from fallout 76

scarlet patio
#

This is a hot take but I wasn’t really a fan of Skyrim. I couldn’t really get into it. I just felt like the dialogue in the game was just lacking quite a bit as most conversations only had like one dialogue option and things felt a bit repetitive. Starfield seems to be more dialogue heavy so it shows that Bethesda seem to be more interested in expanding that area of their games so if they make these improvements to TES6, I feel like I’d like it a lot more

#

Oblivion was way more dialogue focused than Skyrim which is why it was my favourite Bethesda game

feral viper
#

Eeeeh... Oblivion may have felt like it had more dialogue, but it was not more dialogue focused.

#

The problem with Oblivion and earlier TES games is it's dialogue tends to be expositional, not conversational. It's there to mostly give the player information, not to simulate how people actually talk and interact.

#

Skyrim and FO4 leaned more towards Conversational Dialogue

#

Dialogue in them was structured more around actual interactions, not simply relating information.

dusk iron
#

I just hope tes6 wont be hated like starfield before release never seen game get this much hate before its even out

scarlet patio
feral viper
#

And yet, people continue to play them years and even decades after

dusk iron
#

thats sad if that happens with tes

#

mabye if its not xbox exlusive

feral viper
feral viper
dusk iron
#

they were always wrong

feral viper
#

Yup.

scarlet patio
feral viper
#

Generally speaking, the vocal outrage over many things is usually driven by a minority of very loud individuals who just want their opinions to be validated.

feral viper
#

A lot of the fallout following the reception online regarding Morrowind is believed to have driven the general silence from Bethesda devs in their own forums for almost almost two decades

#

It's really only been since they moved to Discord that there's been any actual interaction from BGS with the community again.

scarlet patio
#

I wonder what the casual non-chronically online people will think of Starfield

feral viper
#

Considering even FO76 still has a healthy, active player base? It'll be fine.

dusk iron
#

how they hated morrowind there is so many morrowind fans who still say its the best in series

feral viper
dusk iron
#

stupid

#

I think general public wont hate tes6 like these hard fans

feral viper
#

And Oblivion was hated because it wasn't exactly like Morrowind. And Skyrim was hated because it wasn't exactly like Oblivion.

#

TES is a micocausm of how people don't actually know what they want, and actively rebel against beneficial change.

dusk iron
#

what I wonder will it be hated in mainstream

#

like starfield

#

dont care about these insane fans

#

starfield was hated in mainstream by everyone

feral viper
#

Unlikely. It'll be a slow burn, I think, as some elements of it definitely don't mesh with the general mass appeal market.

scarlet patio
# feral viper TES is a micocausm of how people don't actually know what they want, and activel...

You know what? That sounds like a pretty based take. I feel like each TES game was perfect for its time. That’s why I couldn’t quite get into Skyrim, because I tried getting into it years after its release. It was a game that was perfect for the time it came out but probably wouldn’t get the same success if it came out today. And TES6 is likely to be a completely different experience just as Skyrim and oblivion were before

feral viper
#

I expect it will put preform 76, maybe FO4, but fail to top Skyrim. Which will put a lot of pressure on TES6, pressure which I hope that they take seriously and thoughtfully.

#

Yeah. It's harder to get into BGS games years after the fact. Because they largely represent the eras in which they come out.

dusk iron
#

yeah I think mainstream will get hyped for tes6 ther wont be hate train its just coming from hated games like 76 and starfield

#

will effect a little

feral viper
#

They tend to be SO impactful, that they change how the market approaches things. So if you jump into them 5-10 years afterwards, you've already been spoiled by the refinement of things that a BGS game started.

#

BGS, by and large, makes clunky, but visionary, proof of concept games.

dusk iron
#

I played skyrim for first time this year and loved it only vanilla no mods and got 500 hours in it

feral viper
#

I mean it doesn't apply to everyone of course 😛

dusk iron
#

I hope they will take this serious

feral viper
#

They take everything seriously.

#

Well, except wiring for the Dark Brotherhood. Bunch of silly murder clowns.

scarlet patio
dusk iron
#

I loved that questline

#

we are 5 years away from it and im now worried how badly 76 and starfield are recieved

#

full of hate only

feral viper
#

Yeah, going from Wild Hunt to Skyrim would be a bit of a shift

#

Wild Hunt is a far more focused, character driven narrative, and that's... Just not really the games BGS makes.

#

They make worlds filled with stories, rather than character focused stories set in a world. If that makes any sense.

scarlet patio
#

Yeah, I went into Skyrim expecting another game like witcher and that’s not what it was at all. I think oblivion made me understand more what Bethesda games were all about for some reason as that’s the only Bethesda game I really got into and that was in 2021

dusk iron
#

just dont mess 6 please

#

game should break the internet

feral viper
#

It is my hope that BGS pays attention to thoughtful discourse more than the complaints.

#

Ignore the complaints and hostility, and instead focus on the critical evaluation of things and discussion on how they can be improved.

#

For instance, don't listen to 'it sucks because there's no Spellcrafting'. Instead, listen to 'being able to do X and Y through spellcasting would allow is to A'.

dusk iron
#

this game can match gta 6 hype

feral viper
#

It can exceed it. If it's done carefully and thoughtfully.

#

But... Reactionary changes can doom it.

#

For instance. How dialogue works in Starfield is very clearly a reactionary change to the reception in Fallout 4. And it's... Actively made conversations and interactions worse, IMO.

#

The most glaring example I've encountered is early on, having the camera zoom 30feet ahead of you onto an NPC whose talking to you, locking your focus and taking away all your control.

#

If you want cut scenes. Make cut scenes. Don't use an outdated and clunky dialogue system to take me out of the game and force my attention.

scarlet patio
#

I feel like every ARPG since Witcher 3 has gotten some level of scrutiny e.g. Starfield, cyberpunk 2077, mass effect andromeda

dusk iron
#

I cant wait for that hype 2028

scarlet patio
#

It’s almost like everyone has these perfect expectations for these games and they all seem to express some deep rooted flaws that ruins the game for so many people… and… the thing is that I don’t even think these games are necessarily worse than their older counterparts, just that people seem to expect way more (except for Andromeda)

#

Even Andromeda I think had better gameplay mechanics than the previous Mass effects, I just couldn’t get into the writing and characters

feral viper
#

People in general tend to set expectations based on what they want, rather than what is feasible, what they are told, and what history suggests.

scarlet patio
#

Something like cyberpunk 2077 didn’t have as many dialogue consequences as Witcher 3 and less dynamic open world events but it also had really detailed animations during dialogue scenes, way more gameplay mechanics and options than Witcher 3 and amazing writing in its quests yet everyone seems to only focus on all its negatives. It seems like the same thing is happening with Starfield atm

feral viper
#

I can already confidently say Starfield is in a better launch system than 2077 was. But BGS has far more experience with these sorts of games anyway.

#

The big risk, I think, will be scale. Starfield is huge, even if most of that is relatively barren... And TES doesn't really have that sort of room for the most part

#

Which may encourage doing more than one province, rather than changing the scale... And that's sonethibg I am very much against.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Yes it is.

#

But, I am a dum dum, and didn't install Starfield properly. So I need to go run out to get a new SSD. I shall return, and maybe try to spark up a more technical conversation later.

forest surge
eager remnant
# dusk iron how they hated morrowind there is so many morrowind fans who still say its the b...

I joined Bethesda's forums a few days after Morrowind was released. The hate that game got from old-time fans on Bethesda's forums (I don't know how it was recieved elsewhere) was off the charts. They said it wasn't an RPG, it was a dumbed-down first-person shooter with a few RPG features tacked on as an afterthought. They predicted it would spell Bethesda's downfall. That atitude persisted until shortly after Oblivion's release. Within weeks of Oblivion's release the internet had reevaluated Morrowind and decided that maybe it wasn't so bad after all. Now they claimed Oblivion was the dumbed-down first person shooter with a few RPG features tacked on as an afterthought. We went through it again when Skyrim was released and we'll go through it again when TES VI is released. After all these years I consider all this to be a lot of white noise. I ignore it and form my own opinions.

river cloak
#

I’m so ready for TES 6 like how good is it gonna be I can’t wait

#

Wish I could time travel

livid ingot
river cloak
#

Why would I be disappointed Todd Howard has not let me down yet

#

Like starfield is a big hit for me so my hype is rising for es6

dusk iron
#

skyrim will be praised then when this gmae is out lol

#

funny how all tes games are still played today big fanbases

livid ingot
#

Keep expectations reasonable and he won't let you down

river cloak
#

I’ll try but I will likely fail 😂

livid ingot
#

That's the spirit! VBThumbsUp

dapper lichen
#

Any other news on Skyrim for switch or all versions in September 2023?

river cloak
wide garnet
wheat dagger
potent lava
# feral viper Ignore the complaints and hostility, and instead focus on the critical evaluatio...

There was much criticism about Fallout 4 not being enough of an RPG.

Feels they listened to that and vastly improved in that area IMHO. The traits and backgrounds are awesome.

I'm sure they'll take the "good and bad" of SF along with past Elder Scrolls games during development of ES:IV.

I hope VI takes inspiration from Daggerfall, as well as their other games.

I would love having a wagon to load my junk into similar to Starfield's ships, and of course Daggerfall's wagons.

dapper lichen
steady fable
scarlet patio
#

The RPG catergory is so loose that I think all these games clearly and easily slide into that catergory

forest surge
#

An RPG Is an RPG when it has RPG Mechanics, the choice aspect is not the one thing alone that makes something an RPG but it seems a bunch of people forget that.

scarlet patio
#

Look at final fantasy, one of the most well known RPGs of all time yet I don’t think a single entry in the series has even a single choice

river cloak
feral viper
#

Though, even based on that, the hilarious irony is that FO4 would still be the most RPG, RPG that BGS had made since Daggerfall.

It factually had more actual dialogue checks, mutually exclusive outcomes, and 'Consequences' than any BGS title in 20 years. And no one cares a lick, because it's RPG mechanics were different than they expected.

So the argument just changes as people need it to, to validate them complaining.

#

So, ultimately, 'X isn't an RPG' has about as much meaning as the Flat Earthers and their 'Water always finds its level' nonsense.

fossil stirrup
#

So…will the Empire be in shambles or intact in VI? I can see one of the main quests being the Aldmeri Dominion vs Imperial Empire…or perhaps a new and fledgling coalition sprung up from the ashes of the Empire

feral viper
#

Unknown. I'd rather not, but we don't know what Bethesda intends.

#

I doubt their writing ability to pull off a coalition story though.

fossil stirrup
#

Rather not what? Speculate?

feral viper
#

What id LIKE to see is the Empire collapsed into a civil war in Cyrodiil, with its future looking unclear.

fossil stirrup
#

I think their writing’s fine. Maybe a bit stilted at times.

feral viper
#

You then have. Good leader win the civil war, and push political reforms within the Empire and the diplomacy with outside polities.

fossil stirrup
feral viper
#

Oh, have that happening on the sidelines.

#

Focus on a different area, and use the civil war as worldbuilding.

#

For instance, in a Hammerfell game, have the war in Cyrodiil be motivation for the Dominion to invade the independent Hammerfell

forest surge
#

The Imperials being in charge definitely shouldn’t happen anymore by this point.

tardy tiger
#

I think they're pretty much finished with the Empire and the Imperials. They're going to move on to other people and groups be it the Aldmeri Dominion in the Empires role and some other group being used to introduce people.

feral viper
#

Which is why I lean towards reforms. Imperials in Cyrodiil, but more decentralised regional control instead of centralised autocratic control.

#

Essentially transition towards a Commonwealth, or even Republic.

dusk iron
#

People will say tes6 is not rpg enough

#

Just wait

wide garnet
dusk iron
#

Everything is rpg with rpg elements

feral viper
#

I think it depends on how much it skews

dusk iron
#

Im looking foward for upcoming rpgs like withcher 4 tes6 I want get cyberpunk one day too

feral viper
#

If your success is more based on stats than player skills, then it's an RPG.

#

If your success is based more on your own abilities as a player rather than the stats of your character, then it's an action game with RPG elements.

dusk iron
#

So how rpg are souls games

#

Its kinda different

#

Skyrim is rpg some people say its not really

feral viper
#

Some people are just wrong

#

In fact, while Skyrim does have some problems with execution, it's probably the best foundation for an RPG we've had in the last three decades

forest surge
feral viper
#

RPG, bordering on Stockholm Syndrome Simulator.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Not the place for me to reiterate my stance on the Souls games, beyond saying that I don't like Fromsoft's approach to anything not Armoured Core.

#

But, more relevantly it doesn't really have much that is useful in application to TES.

forest surge
dusk iron
#

I love elden ring one of my favorite games

#

Exploring and fighting bosses is so fun

feral viper
#

I'll be honest. I gave up on Fromsoft's Soulslikes about 30-60 minutes into Bloodborne and haven't touched one since.

#

After 150+ hours in DS 1 and 2, I finally dawned on me that it wasn't worth it. Nothing was making me actually enjoy the games.

dusk iron
#

its not for you then

#

no need to force

#

im very hyped for elden ring dlc

#

armored core is boring for me so I dont like it

#

but then as I said some games arent for you not your type you will enjoy

forest surge
dusk iron
#

same I dont like customizating stuff

feral viper
#

Oh man, that's my jam.

#

I spend more time in FO4 building settlements than anything else.

#

Give me the ability to customise my gear in TES, down to every plate, and I'll be pleased as a pig in ****.

forest surge
dusk iron
#

im 10 hours in starfield still didnt try customize outpost or my ship

#

im just lazy to do that idk

feral viper
#

I play a lot of colony sims, factory games and strategy games too

#

So it's definitely more my speed

#

But, that's generally why I am in favour of variable systems which allow ease of use for those who just want to go, but also facilitate depth of you want to really get into the nitty gritty.

scenic scarab
#

They're finally working on tes6 lets go

river cloak
eager remnant
# scenic scarab They're finally working on tes6 lets go

It's probably more accurate to say the game is in "full production" now. Small teams have been working on TES VI for years, coming up with ideas for stories, quests, characters, drawing concept art, ect. Later on, as certain developers finished their work on Starfield they were moved over to TES VI. So if Bethesda's procedure in the past is any indication the team working on TES VI has been growing steadily over the past couple of years. Now, with Starfield out, the entire team (minus small teams put to work on DLC) has been shifted over to TES VI.

dusk iron
#

2028 brothers

#

I will be like in mid or late 20s so im good

#

that day will be amazing

#

I will get new pc take days off

#

and play for 24 hours

#

I will buy early acses if there will be

#

I think they will keep small team for starfield

#

fix bugs work on dlc but major team is going to VI

eager remnant
dusk iron
#

fallout and starfield are alright I guess but elder scrolls is what I love

forest surge
#

Meaning we could see the Dres Capital of Tear or even Firewatch which is more Indoril Territory as the style of the buildings there is Indoril. Possibly Blacklight which is the Redoran Capital.

#

But that may not be the case either and it may not be very clear that it is that.

feral viper
#

Alright, well. I've got 16 hours in Starfield now, and I think I've got enough of a grasp of things to start looking at what could be interesting or useful to apply to TES6.

#

First off... The Dialogue System is hot garbage. Talking Heads is bad at the best of times, but this thing Oblivion Zooms so hard that it'll give you whiplash. I feel like a big eyed cartoon character every time I talk to someone, and that's not even touching on the raw mechanical disconnect talking to people brings. Absolutely useless and of zero value moving forward.

Persuasion on the other hand is probably the best approach we've seen in... Well, any RPG I can think of. It's fantastic and I think absolutely should be kept for TES6. It's almost like they took the underlying systems from Season Unending and made the entire Persuasion dynamic out of that.

Ailments and Status Effects are also much better than they've ever been. It may even be robust enough to expand into an entire Disease dynamic for TES, without actually having to change any of the systems underlying code.

Ship building and settlement building is more robust and model driven, rather than part driven like in Fallout, and I could see the system being useful in designing whole buildings rather than just doing it wall by wall.

Gunplay and Melee are not particularly interesting. And I don't think either really add anything which is useful for TES moving forward.

The Skill system is better than Fallout 4s, but I still think inferior to Skyrim's. One thing it does do that I think has some interesting value, though, is Challenge Gating perks/ranks of perks. While I don't think you should challenge gate ALL perks in a Skill Driven dynamic like TES, gating some does encourage further activity based progression.

wide garnet
#

@feral viper You sure you posted this in the right channel?

#

This is for the Elder Scrolls, not Starfield.

feral viper
#

Oh, I know. This is about systems and approaches present in Starfield, which I think have a viable or useful application in TES.

#

Basically, things they do that I think they should keep for TES6

wide garnet
#

I still say you should post this in the Starfield channel.

feral viper
#

Well I'll try to steer it more towards some direct relation rather than generalities.

#

Digipicks are another element which I really like, and I think they make Lockpicking the best it's ever been in a BGS game, but I was initially unsure how you could adopt that system into TES. If you limited it to the Skeleton Key, then you'd have a totally different system for a single item, which seems like a waste, but you can't really see inside a lock otherwise to make it work.

Then it hit me. Unlock spells. Use Oblivion's Lockpicking for... Well, Lockpicks, then use Digipicks for Unlock spells. The Magicka drain gives you a time limit while using it, helping to balance out the approaches, and it would make it so Physical and Magical approaches to the problem manifest in distinctly different ways without one just being explicitly superior to the other.

eager remnant
# wide garnet I still say you should post this in the Starfield channel.

The post is not about Starfield. It is about how well Starfield's systems might apply to TES VI. "...should be kept for TES6..." "...robust enough to expand into an entire Disease dynamic for TES..." "...zero value moving forward..." "...I don't think either really add anything which is useful for TES..." This chat is where we extrapolate from existing games and theorize about potential TES VI mechanics. Therefore, this post is in the appropriate place.

wide garnet
#

Just making sure.

dusk iron
#

he is not talking about starfield he is talking what should be in tes read better

feral viper
#

Now now, no need of that. Makubro was just making sure we kept things on topic.

#

I've done the same in the past. No fault in that.

dusk iron
#

why would he care

forest surge
dusk iron
#

yes skyrim dialogue system is better than starfields

forest surge
feral viper
#

Oh man, it's so bad.

#

Beyond that... I see little to nothing of Oblivion in the game. Which is a good thing, IMO

wide garnet
forest surge
#

Ah a friend stated what he think he meant

#

I think he primarily meant that, but I think he also said it had deeper RPG mechanics like the Oblivion/Fallout 3 era, in comparison to Skyrim/Fallout 4 one.

feral viper
#

Which... Well.

#

Just because Oblivion and FO3 were more traditional, doesn't mean they were deeper.

#

Oblivion in particular was... An incredibly shallow RPG.

#

But that's a general problem with perception vs reality...

#

On the whole, I actually think Starfield is more like Skyrim and FO4 than it is Oblivion and FO3.

#

Which is a good thing, IMO, and it's new systems offer a lot of potential for future TES games. The Ailments in particular open a huge door, mechanically, to actually making diseases impactful

eager remnant
#

I always figured they were saying that Starfield's character creation options resembled Daggerfall's backgrounds/advantages/disadvantages (as well as the class-and-birthsign approach taken by Morrowind and Oblivion) more than it did the blank slate approach taken by Skyrim. I got that impression from this quote: "It's also a bit more hardcore of a role playing game than we've done. It's got some really great character systems – choosing your background, things like that. We’re going back to some things that we used to do in games long ago that we felt have really let players express the character they want to be."

dusk iron
#

Really liked Skyrim leveling skills

#

Starfield levelingis still confusing me

feral viper
#

It's pretty simple. Unlocking skills takes skill point, which you get from leveling up. But additional ranks in a skill set gated behind challenges that have to be completed. The Challenges are like Skill Level requirements in Skyrim.

#

I generally think Skyrim's system is better, of course... But the Challenge Gating could make some Perk routes more interesting

dusk iron
#

But dialogue is horrible

#

I prefer one in Skyrim too

feral viper
#

Oh, the system is such hot garbage, I know people are going to love it.

dusk iron
#

Like in Skyrim you can move

#

Many flaws in this game

#

Dont know how some people say its bethedas best since fallout 3/oblivion

#

More like game journalists said that

#

And I dont really understand how is this close to oblivion

feral viper
dusk iron
#

Maybe in funny bugs

#

Only

feral viper
#

I'd say it's better than Oblivion though. Buuut...

dusk iron
#

They need make freedom of movement in dialogues

#

In tesVI

#

This is really annoying

feral viper
#

Let's just say, the only thing Oblivion has to offer is it's Lockpicking minigame

dusk iron
#

Oh god that too in starfield

#

Its also bad

#

Digitpicks

#

Slow to do it

#

I would honestly refund this game and get it later on some sale but its to late now my 80 dollars is gone

feral viper
#

I actually love Digipicks. My main problem was trying to figure out how to make them apply to TES.

dusk iron
#

There is many problems that need to be fixed

#

By mods or bgs

feral viper
#

Because that sort of digital interface wouldn't work with the same sket of physical locks...

dusk iron
#

How will lockpicking be in 6

feral viper
#

No idea

dusk iron
#

Would actually be great to have both oblivion and Skyrim

#

Different doors

feral viper
#

I was thinking Oblivion's Lockpicking for actual Lockpicks, Digipicks for Unlock Spells.

dusk iron
#

oblivions lockpicking looks better

#

but skyrims is easier

eager remnant
#

I actually liked lockpicking best in Morrowind. It occurred in real time. You had to pay attention to potential witnesses during the procedure or you might get arrested. It also depended on character skill rather than my own faulty eye-hand coordination.

feral viper
#

Yeah, I was on that stint too, and still think it's the one I enjoy the most (though Digipicks are growing on me quickly) but ultimately...

#

I've grown to be of the general opinion that activity is important in the games. If it's something that happens automatically, without any direct interaction on the part of the Player, then you aren't really engaging with the player enough. So just clicking a button until you get a Success message isn't enough

forest surge
#

Your all Lucky I still have to wait Two Days

forest surge
feral viper
#

It's more of a Lockpicking tool with multiple picks and a digital interface.

forest surge
#

Huh… when I hear Digi I assume it’s short for Digital is all

feral viper
#

Oh, yeah there's a digital element to it. But it seems to function more like... Jamming a proboscis end into the lock, and using a digital interface to manipulate that end to trigger the physical locking pins.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Which is why I think the system could be adapted to function as Magical alternative, as it still requires a direct interaction with the player. Rather than just... Point and it's unlocked.

#

Which is probably why the Unlock spells went away anyway.

#

And that's really been what I've been leaning towards lately. Interaction and engagement.

#

Anything that's just point and click with no further engagement needs work. There's always ways to integrate Character Skill into interactions, but if you remove all the Player Interaction from it, it can feel very... Stale and dull.

#

A good system is one that actively engages the player every step of the way, while also utilising enough variables that allow for robust Character contribution.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Or even just having Unlock spells use one approach (which has an effective time limit as your Magicka depletes while doing it, and generates a lot of light, making you easier to detect) while conventional Lockpicks use another (being quieter and more difficult to detect, but requiring the physical Lockpicks and a dedicated skill.

#

You could even add Perks to Lockpicking as a Skill that allow you to automatically open local below a certain level, to revive some of the automated Skill-Driven Morrowind approach without forcing it

#

Then, you could probably make the Auto-Pick apply to Unlock as well... So if you're skilled I both Alteration AND Lockpicking, you can effectively recreate the traditional Point and Click Open Spells....

#

But the ability to just bypass the Minigame is something that's earned, through Character Skill.

#

Thinking about it... That's one type of Perk that could use Starfield's challenge gating.

#

Imagine if, to unlock the ability to learn Novice Lock-Cracker, you had to first successfully pick 25 Novice Locks. Then, the Perk opens up, and you can elect to spend a point on it. Thereafter, you can just automatically pick Novice locks.

#

Or, if you enjoy the minigame, you can just not buy that Perk and spend it elsewhere.

#

@eager remnant As our resident preferential to Morrowind's approach, how does that sound to you as a compromise in approaches?

eager remnant
#

I like the idea of depleting magicka while using unlock spells. I'm also quickly becoming a fan of Starfield's challenge gating. So I like the Novice lock picker idea too. I think there's a lot of potential ideas like this that could be modified to fit the TES universe in an interesting way.

feral viper
#

Glad the idea tickles your fancy a bit.

#

Persuasion Checks are another element which I think Starfield offers some interesting options, though I'm not sure if their approach ALONE is enough.

forest surge
dim reef
#

Hello. what mods do i need for all the elder scrolls games on pc to have the full package? What i mean by full package is to combine all versions into one like all versions from tes 1 into one tes 1, all tes 2 into one tes 2 etc. fixing all bugs and glitches and lags, and maybe have some quality of life imorovements. Also the games that i am refering to are: tes 1 arena, 2 daggerfall, legend battlespire, adventures redguard, 3 morrowind, 4 oblivion, 5 skyrim anniversary edition, legends and 5 skyrim vr. Thank you

feral viper
feral viper
violet lily
#

All are on Nexus, feel free to DM me if you have questions / want set up instructions 🙂

dim reef
feral viper
#

Oooh, you mean specific to each game. My bad, j thought you meant combining all the games into one
.

feral viper
#

Ok, well. As an added bonus, something that we now know BGS can do and which I hope to see in TES6...

Ladders! That's right, we got ladders now! We are living the future.

#

More seriously, I've been playing around with some of the mechanics for Ailments and status effects last night, and doing some scribbling... And I'm more convinced than ever that it could be used to expand into a really robust and interesting Disease and Injury system for future TES games.

livid ingot
#

Ladders? You're pulling our collective leg

feral viper
forest surge
feral viper
#

Yes. It's sorcery of the best kind.

forest surge
feral viper
#

I like that this is what's gotten attention. Now questions about ailments and diseases

dusk iron
#

Less loading screens

#

New engine

feral viper
#

Starfield does have a lot of loading screens.

The engine thing isn't going to instantly fix problems though. BGS has been through... 5 engines now and always ends up with the same problems.

dusk iron
#

Why are they using 20 year old engine

#

Crazy to think oblivion and starfield is same engine

feral viper
#

They are not

#

They aren't. That's a persistent myth that goes around online and is 100% false.

dusk iron
#

Its just updates

feral viper
#

That'd like saying Unreal 1998 ran in the same engine as Hellblade 2

#

That don't how Engines work.

#

Not only was Gamebryo (used for Oblivion and FO3) different from NetImmerse (used for Morrowind) but BGS then built their own engine, Creation (used for Skyrim, FO4, FO76 and Starfield).

#

Creation HAS been updated over time, yes, but that's pretty normal for in-house engines.

#

For instance, RAGE, used by rockstar, has been in use since 2004ish, and will also be the engine used for GTA6.

#

There's not the same kind of incentive to rebrand and remarket an engine in house, since you have full access to its inner workings and can do what you want with it.

#

Meanwhile, Unreal Engine is a PRODUCT that Epic Games markets out to other studios. As such, there is financial incentive to treat new versions of the Engine as entirely distinct entities, rather than continuously updating and supporting the one.

#

It's also worth noting that... Even other games made with Gamebryo, have not exhibited the same sorts of issues that we see in Bethesda games. Issues which have, again, persisted ACROSS their changes to different engines.

#

So the issue is, as ever, Bethesda. Not the engine. It's their style and approach to things that results in particular nuances and complications

spare anchor
feral viper
#

It's an unfortunately common sentiment parroted on many parts of the internet however. So it's not really your fault if someone else gave you bad information.

dusk iron
#

I wish they would change engine

#

Stop using same one

feral viper
#

They have. Three times. And it hasn't addressed the issue.

#

Because the Engine isn't the problem (if there is one). How Bethesda designs and builds their games WITHIN the engine is.

#

Significantly different under the hood.

#

I mean, just baseline, Skyrim couldn't support 64bit processing. Fallout 4 and Starfield can. That's... A pretty enormous change.

#

That means that FO4 and Starfield, simply by merit of that change, are capable of accommodating 250 million times the RAM as Skyrim

#

Me? I don't think I've had a formative experience with a game in 20 years.

#

Or longer.

#

Soul Reaver was probably the last.... Maaaan was Legacy of Kain something else.

dusk iron
#

For me elden ring and Skyrim

#

2 games I love

feral viper
#

I love Skyrim, but I wouldn't really say it holds any sort of fundamental emotional connection for me. It's simply a great game with a glimmer of mechanical brilliance.

dusk iron
#

Why I feel like that then

feral viper
#

And the only thing if lasting value there is in the world, is progress. So that Brilliance is important.

feral viper
#

So you can feel how you like about other things.

dusk iron
#

I loved world

#

Fantasy world is amazing

#

Like it more than scfi

feral viper
#

And that's fine. I ADORE Sci Fi. I know, for me, the barren, natural landscapes of solar blasted moons in Starfield are magnificent.

#

But it's not for everyone. And it shouldn't HAVE to be. The goal should only ever be making the best game you can, for the people who like that sort of thing.

forest surge
feral viper
#

It's a lot more complicated than that. It uses some of the command and communication control from Gamebryo, but it's a significantly different beast under the hood.

#

It's like, the Ship of Theseus, if you replaced everything but the door knobs.

forest surge
spare anchor
feral viper
#

Ailments will require you to actively expose yourself to something bad for you, in order to experience... But while it's pretty bare bones in Starfield I do think fleshing the system out more could open up some really great doors for TES.

#

Diseases and injuries with progressive severity and treatment could really make something like Blackmarsh shine.

lucid bay
#

very important question,
skyrim dark brotherhood questline or oblivions dark brotherhood questline?

shell vigil
#

oblivion

merry void
#

Next Elder Scrolls is gonna be heat if Starfield is anything to go by. Really excited for it!

stuck minnow
#

the next elder scrolls needs to be more medival than modern, it should heavily emulate kingdom come deliverance, but with more freedom of exploration .

eager remnant
feral viper
feral viper
dusk iron
#

This why Hammerfell is good idea

#

Desert

feral viper
#

Indeed.

#

And lots of room for cultural diversity.

dusk iron
#

With high rock

#

People want khajiits land

#

But what would you do there

#

Deal skooma questline

#

This is something different

#

Desert

feral viper
#

I mean, the Khajiit have an ancient culture with a sophisticated theocracy, and a pre-theocratic history

#

They're far more urbanised and culturally sophisticated than Nords are. And we somehow got Bethesda's highest rated game ever out of the cave men.

dusk iron
#

Ydp more fun than Nords culture

forest surge
feral viper
#

Unfortunately it's always exploding. And at the same time, always undermining history. Vikings aren't even a culture, they were a job WITHIN a culture.

quiet finch
#

Tis true. Viking was derived from going vikingr or Viking roughly translates to: To raid, or raider

feral viper
#

You know, if there's one lesson I expect BGS to take from Starfield for TES6... it's that you can't get away with lowering POI density. If you aren't tripping over a cave or a ruin or a mudcrab wallow every meters, people will complain about the world being empty.

#

So I'm expecting the Alik'r to look more like Vegas in Resident Evil Extinction, than like the Sahara.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Fair. I think there was another spike around AC Valhalla, but yeah.

dim reef
forest surge
feral viper
# dim reef So, anyone?

Give me a few hours and I'll do some digging on the Nexus, see if I can get you a rough per-game list.

#

Anyway, for a technical discussion... Now that it's been properly out for a few hours, I thought I'd bring up Starfield's Status Effects and Ailments again.

#

Cliffs notes, the system uses stages of severity in negative status effects that apply behavioural and variable modifiers to you based on how bad they are.

#

Lung Damage, for instance, will cause you to cough periodically. This consumes O2 (Stamina) and makes noise, making you easier to detect. The frequency of coughing depends on the stage of the ailment.

#

This sort of system, I think, would work REALLY well for diseases. With them starting off minor and getting worse or better depending on various influences.

#

For instance, initial Rockjoint could just increase your stamina drain. Then stage 2 could make it so sneaking drains stamina. Stage 3 could make it so ANYTYING drains Stamina, even walking. Stage 4 makes it so stamina draining activities drain Health. And stage 5 (if you ever let it get that far) is basically advanced arthritis and everything you do hurts you.

#

Taking Cure Disease potions can then come in levels of magnitudes, allowing you to treat various severities of disease rather than just invalidating the risk of Disease altogether.

eager remnant
dim reef
dim reef
#

Yo think about this..

#

The Elder Scrolls, but the Elder stopped scrolling 🤯🤯🤯

feral viper
forest surge
feral viper
forest surge
feral viper
#

All food should be in Chunks.

forest surge
feral viper
#

Alright, so, now that people have had a few days to play Starfield, I thought it's time to bring up a more.... abstract topic that tends to get glossed over a lot in games.

Difficulty.

#

The general trend in games to scale Difficulty is to just up HP/Resistances/Damage and call it a day. The end result of this is enemies which result in massive bullet sponges, or instant kill the player of you miss one dodge, etc. And I feel that, while the simplest solution, is inherently missing the point of Making a game more challenging. It's definitely HARDER, but Challenge means more than that.

#

Rolling a 100kg boulder up a hill is harder to do than rolling a 50kg one up the same hill. But rolling two 25kg boulders up that hill is more challenging than either.

#

And I think Difficulty should focus more on Challenge, than just making things Harder.

livid ingot
#

Not sure I understand your distinction between difficulty and challenge.

wide garnet
#

Yeah, care to differentiate between the two?

feral viper
#

Difficulty is an overarching concept that covers both how Hard something is, and how Challenging it is.

Something being Hard is the raw impediment in completing an action.

Something being Challenging is the complexity required to complete an action.

#

So, to use a simple example ...

Making an enemy Harder, means just increasing their health pool.

Making an enemy more Challenging, means adding behaviors, Resistances, or situations which force the player to react to those changes.

#

And in terms of Difficulty, I think we need more of a focus on Challenge, rather than Hardness.

feral viper
#

Though I'll be real, don't particularly like Hard as a term... it's like Good, it's too nebulous and ubiquitous in its use that it's become generically non descriptive...

#

Challenging and Punishing, maybe?

dim reef
dim reef
eager remnant
#

Nothing has 'stopped.' Bethesda Game Studios is working on another Elder Scrolls game as we speak.

dusk iron
#

I stopped playing starfield tbh

#

I will try finish one day

dim reef
#

Mad ting fam

#

Who is this elder anyway?

feral viper
#

A Vampire of at least 300 years

#

Which you'd think would be pretty common, but Childer tend to be quite cut throat and few survive their first decade.

feral viper
#

But yeah, anyway... RPGs are generally in a stronger place for exploring better Difficulty dynamics than other games, because they have various supplementary systems which can play into it rather than just increasing health pools and damage.

#

The goal should be about making the Player have to juggle more plates at higher difficulty, or at least making effective juggling of this plates more important, rather than just making it more of a slug fest.

#

For instance, Armour and Damage Types become more important at higher difficulties. This means that you, the player, need to be able to recognise what types of armour are resistant to what type of damage, and what weapons you have to maximise your ability to deal with a problem efficiently.

#

Within the context of an RPG, Character Skills, Attributes, Abilities and Equipment determine what the CHARACTER is capable of. But the PLAYER is the one who ultimately has to understand what those are and how best to use them to be effective. And that should be the focus on how Difficulty works. Not just making the slope you have to climb steeper.

scarlet patio
#

What if Elder scrolls 6 is procedurally generated like Starfield and daggerfall??

#

I think there’s a moderately likely possibility of this happening

eager remnant
scarlet patio
eager remnant
#

No, Cyrodiil is the same for everyone. Procedural generation is not the same thing as random generation. Bethesda plugged geological data into software to generate the landscape of Cyrodiil. When this was done they modified the landscape by hand to accommodate roads, towns, dungeons, ect.

brisk dragon
#

I just read Elder Scrolls 6 isn’t expected to release for another 5 or 6 years. That’ll put it a whopping 17 or 18 years after the release of Skyrim. Wild. I wonder how different it’ll be. 🤔

dense bone
#

Look at Starfield and now imagine how detailed Fallout V and Elder Scrolls VI will be

scarlet patio
scarlet patio
#

I say they’re wrong 😂

feral viper
#

You CAN have procedural generation systems that run on the game end to actively create new world spaces as needed, such as with Minecraft. But in most cases they are used on the developers end to create the initial world space, that they then expand on manually.

#

Bethesda has never really used client since procgen systems.

#

Even client side procgen isn't really random though, as it requires a system that accommodates specific rules, generation parameters and spawn groups to create a functional world space.

#

Now, depending on how they approach things, you may see some client side active procgen in certain regions. The Alik'r Desert, for instance. Places where the landscape shifts somewhat regularly.

fading helm
# scarlet patio I say they’re wrong 😂

The citizens of the cities do not have schedules, stores are always open and npc work all the time with no break, citizens also do not have names. Buildings dont make sense, like the SSNN where there is no to the actual building, no elevator or door exists, and the worker also works 24/7 with no schedule. You also cannot kill many more npc, unlike skyrim. You dont have to sneak to enter restricted areas, u can just walk inside and nobody will complain or fight you. The formula of simulation and immersion is def much much worse.

#

i tried shooting the commander of uc and they do not die, did not add a bounty and did not react to me at all.. lol i wanted to see the repercussions of attacking an important npc, and its none

forest surge
fading helm
#

omg that was the best part, it was so immersive

forest surge
#

I thought I would miss it, but truthfully, I didn’t and I was surprised.

fading helm
#

I really enjoy the game, but everytime i go back to the main city my immersion breaks.

#

I loved being also able to kill store workers and see the repercussions of it in skyrim. I loved playing in a world that felt real with schedules and relationships

forest surge
fading helm
#

Pc

forest surge
# fading helm Pc

Oh, that explains it then, I think the PC Version doesn’t perform as well I hear, but I don’t know how true it is.

fading helm
#

I dont have any performance issues

forest surge
#

I will say my biggest criticism is the lack of Notes and Audio Logs around New Atlantis so far

forest surge
#

In Fallout and Elder Scrolls they tend to be in abundance and that helped searching around more fun.

fading helm
#

The followers are done really well, and is an improvement from skyrim (except that wont auto equip weapons you give them 🤪) but i dont like the lack of schedules, names, and how everything in the city feels fake

forest surge
#

Like so far it feels more immersive in the idea there are various people, all looking different moving around.

#

Holding a Briefcase, Cup of Terrorbrew, among other things, although the Guards at Posts with the hands behind there backs and legs at the sides.

feral viper
#

I'm less keen on generic 'Citizens', though I accept the functional necessity of them.

fading helm
#

They could have just had random names tho.. like why call them “citizens”. I would just use a database to name the citizens

feral viper
#

Yeah. Even just having a database of First and Last names that it assembles names from. It would at least make them feel a little more like 'people'

#

Better even if the games would allow for large open environments where you could have them literally have a place to stay. Bethesda games in general lack proper representation of high-density housing.

#

Like... not everyone in a medieval city had a house. In fact, the extreme minority did, most lived in common spaces where you and your family would have a room, not an entire dwelling.

#

Apartment type structures have existed since the dawn of cities.

fading helm
feral viper
#

Yeah, some stuff I'm ok with. Like, if you're going to include parents for the PC, generic terms are ok, as it allows you more room to apply your own identity to that.

#

I'd even be ok if it just said Citizen until you talked to them, and then it became a name. Just to represent introducing yourself to new people..

feral viper
#

Maybe, if you're going to have a trait like that, it would be nice to be able to make your parents as well.

livid ingot
#

Since I've been playing ||Starfield,|| I have not been swayed over to the generic spawning NPC model for populating cities in the Elder Scrolls. I know one of the primary arguments here is that the cities in TES are "immersion-breaking" because they're so small + depopulated. But I don't find "citizens" convincing in the slightest. Cities feel more empty, and less enticing. I would definitely be against a feature like this coming to TES.

forest surge
#

Like Citizens as a feature I am not against since they are supposed to be there to help the city feel alive, but I do think the named characters not having much of a schedule or home is a step back, but it hasn’t been the biggest step back if that makes any sense.

forest surge
feral viper
livid ingot
#

That's a good way to phrase it

forest surge
forest surge
fading helm
forest surge
scarlet patio
# fading helm The citizens of the cities do not have schedules, stores are always open and npc...

I think Starfield is a very difficult game to have all NPCs having their own schedule due to being in a large city. This is something that has probably never been done before because technology probably cannot handle it. I do like how certain key NPCs can be found at different locations doing different things at different times of the day.

Starfield is also a much deeper RPG compared to Bethesda games since Fallout 3. Skyrim has always bothered me as there were barely any dialogue options throughout the game and the choices/consequences were very few and far between. I’m still very early on in Starfield but I’m already seeing way more dialogue choices and quest outcomes than I saw in skyrim

forest surge
#

Starfields first outing is a Major Success but the feedback on what Starfield was lacking will most likely play a part in TESVI and Starfield’s inevitable sequel.

scarlet patio
forest surge
#

Starfield’s scenario is different so I never expected it to be 1 to 1 in the way Fallout and Elder Scrolls Handled there Worlds, I am having fun because I’m avoiding a lot of the Radiant Stuff and focusing primarily on the Planets that I’m asked to go to, not necessarily Mission Board Planets and such.

#

The Radiant Stuff had never been completely my Cup of Tea, I won’t go out of my way to go to every unknown Planet which is fine with me.

scarlet patio
livid ingot
#

It's true. Even though say Skyrim's cities are absurdly small, in terms of game scales, its easier to be "convinced" or at least to ignore. Given the setting, in the real world medieval cities are absolutely tiny compared to what they are in the modern day. So, given other depictions of modern cities in video games (like GTA), their own much reduced scale gives a sort of standard sense of comparison. That's partly why the smaller towns have never bothered me that much. The science fiction setting of a game like Starfield can't pull that off, especially since we'd expect cities in the future to be bigger and more densely populated than they are now. Partly why places like Hong Kong and Tokyo are popular with genres like cyberpunk and the like. They're enormous modern super metropolises.

forest surge
dense bone
dense bone
#

My only shock was that we didn’t start off in some form of prison 😂

scarlet patio
#

This is a hot take but… does anyone think that starfield’s ‘exploration’ is kinda better than skyrims??

#

I never found exploration that awarding in Skyrim as all I’d do would be exploring random caves only to find loot and weapons inferior to what I already have while Starfield has quests that make you explore certain planets in order to complete them

#

When it comes to ‘exploration’, I always found other games more rewarding like the legend of Zelda series

versed wigeon
#

when ESO 2?

dusk iron
#

Add I used to be an adventurer like you Then I took an arrow in the knee in Tes 6

scarlet patio
feral viper
#

If there's one thing I really hope they take from Starfield and improve for TES6... it's this garbage dialogue system

river cloak
#

Anyone get hyped for ES6 then remember it’s years away 😖🥲

feral viper
#

Nah. The disappointment of New Vegas crippled my ability to experience hype, and 20 years without a Legacy of Kain game has made my concern for time ephemeral

livid ingot
#

Yeah, I find it near impossible to experience "hype" anymore for games. Part of getting older I guess

river cloak
#

Oh I’m sorry you guys can’t get hyped hopfully when the game gets closer and we learn more we will be excited

livid ingot
#

Hopefully 🤞

forest surge
feral viper
#

I do not. And that is all I shall say any further about that.

dusk iron
#

same with me for starfield

#

was so disappointed I cant get hyped for future games

#

I got 15 hours in and I deleted this

#

its still in my libary maybe one day I will try finish

#

trew 80 dollars into nothing my big regret

#

I tried to like it

nimble pond
nimble pond
# dusk iron trew 80 dollars into nothing my big regret

Oh bummer bro. Least you didn't buy the more expensive one tho, over a hundred or something. But just curious, what didn't you like about it, like what parts specifically. And you never know, some folks didn't like F76 at first, but I see alot of ppl like it more now after they added some stuff to it. Maybe it'll be the same for you thru some later dlc or patches.

#

Hype is a mistake to begin with though anyway, you start setting these unrealistic standards in your mind, so of course you're gonna feel let down

dusk iron
#

I didnt even like fallout 4

#

I dont know I dont like exploration in this game

nimble pond
#

Maybe it's not your style? Not sure what games you enjoy the most, but like I'm bored to tears with racing games regardless of how great a game it is. Except Mario Kart ofc

dusk iron
#

every planet has same outposts

#

only like 3-4 major towns

#

if they made one system it would be way more enjoyable

#

and each planet had something unique

nimble pond
#

Ah, maybe a bit heavy on the realism sense then. Unfortunately in a young exploration era, it makes sense not to have a lot of big cities

dusk iron
#

and there isloading screen for everything

#

I love skyrim

#

got 500+ hours in it

#

I liked that more

nimble pond
#

Well yea but you make it set in only one system and it changes the entire atmosphere intended.

#

As for loading screens my guess is it was a sacrifice in order to add more stuff to the game but don't take my word on that cause it's just a reasonable guess

dusk iron
#

I just find it boring this go to one planet to get quest then go to another palnet then agian to another

nimble pond
#

Yea skyrim is great I love fantasy worlds

dusk iron
#

same

#

I love fantasy more

#

trying new spells

#

new weapons

nimble pond
#

I get ya man, starfield does have bethesda DNA in it, but it is essentially a different experience from it's elder twins TES & Fallout

dusk iron
#

killing creatures

#

yeah starfield is bethesda game no doubt but I was hoping they will upgrade it

#

like its same formula without anything new for past decade

nimble pond
#

Well like I said, always room for more with future dlc 🙂

dusk iron
#

yes

#

I love fantasy worlds more exploring it amazing experience

#

im not big fan of fallout

nimble pond
#

I like em both, but def a medival fantasy type person over all else lol but that's just how I am

dusk iron
#

same

#

witcher 3 my first game of that type I fell in love with rpgs set in fantasy world

nimble pond
#

I was hooked after zelda 64 lol

dusk iron
#

ah ocarina of time

#

very old game

#

you been playing for decades wow

nimble pond
#

I am decades 🤪
Some have even rumored I'm more elder than the elder scrolls themselves, maybe, maybe not 😉

dusk iron
#

you like new zelda games

nimble pond
#

I'll let you know if I have ever have the time to play them lol. I think the last zelda I played was twilight and I didn't get to finish it

dusk iron
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everyone talking about botw and totk

nimble pond
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I have seen 👀

stuck minnow
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eso needs deep sea exploration

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naval combat wouldnt be bad either

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how many expansions you guys think will be made before we reach the septim/oblivion saga

feral viper
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We won't. The timeline isn't actively advancing, and they have a good 500 years before Tiber Septim is born.

eager remnant
stuck minnow
feral viper
#

Alright, so. While I simmer down and collect my thoughts regarding Dialogue Systems, I thought id exercise a bit of discourse regarding general design philosophy in TES, and sorta in RPGs as a whole.

I am personally a big supporter of KISS. That is, Keep It Simple ****** (the final word isn't really necessary to the point). This is generally applicable to everything from Programming to Gameplay Loops to Writing, but I think it's best suited as a major philosophical principle rather than an explicit rule.

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What do I mean by this? Basically that any system should only be as complicated as absolutely necessary to accomplish the job.

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This focus on simplicity makes systems easier to understand and engage with, but also allows for interactions between systems to create range and complexity without becoming convoluted.

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As an example of this... armour systems in TES games are on the Convoluted side, rather than the KISS side. AC has no direct translation to the player, all they know is "AC go up? Much Better".

The system doesn't convey any useful information, because the formula for AC and Damage interaction is too complicated in the background. This is what you actually have:
(displayed armor rating + hidden armor rating) × 0.12

With other formulas to calculate Displayed and Hidden ratings. But at no point is the 0.12 variable ever related to the player.

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So all you can make a decision on is More AC = Good. You ha s no way to relate that to genera decision making, because you have no way to approximate HOW good it will be in any given situation.

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The system is too complex to be practically useful for decision making, and thus doesn't ultimately factor in to decision making.

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Why is this a problem?

Because the crux of RPGs is the ability to control and influence variables, determined by Character Ability, to create interesting and engaging interactions for the Player.

And if they can't reasonably use the information to understand how things will react, they can't use them to make decisions based on those interactions.

feral viper
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Another element where too much complexity actually adversely impacts the end result... encumbrance and Armour.

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Typically, in TES, Encumbrance is first and foremost a factor of the armour you wear. From Light to Heavy, the type of armour you wear determines how much you are slowed.

This is mostly because of the need to create some functional difference between Armour for 'Reasons', and is in basically every way actively detrimental.

Not only is this actually counter intuitive and outright artificial when it comes to armour, but it creates the ludicrous interaction of... stuffing your armour in your pocket actually makes you faster.

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Instead, a simple Weight driven encumbrance system automatically creates the same effect (heavier armour slows you down more) with none of the nonsensical elements, and opens up far more doors for clear interaction.

Suddenly, Burden and Feather spells become more interesting, mechanically

stuck minnow
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Absolutaly dont put any form of online co op into elder scrolls 6

forest surge
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Okay…

feral viper
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I dunno, I think it could work. But only if it's VR, and only if the co-op player is my dog.

livid ingot
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attach VR headset to dog
Now, we can finally play TES together...

feral viper
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Not gonna lie. I like my dog more than most of my friends.

livid ingot
river cloak
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If you could pick where would you want TES6 to be set ?

wide garnet
river cloak
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Ooo interesting i don’t no much of Atmora. Personally would love to see valenwood or black marsh something different 👀

livid ingot
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Definitely have a lot of ideas for these provinces I would like to experiment with too. Try to make them super different from anything that has come before

river cloak
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Due to Todd saying elder scrolls 6 might be his last es game do you think they will do the whole of tamriel due to the size and scale of starfield I don’t think it’s impossible or they could add maps for dlc maybe who knows but I’m excited

river cloak
feral viper
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That said... where would I personally place it, given the chance?

Blackmarsh.

Though I expect Hammerfell.

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Though, right now, I could write primers for what I would personally focus each game on to complete the entire continent province by province... so any province is fine.

river cloak
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I’m intrigued to know what ideas you have for each provinces 😁

feral viper
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Blackmarsh: exploration of the disproportionate relationship between the Argonians and the Hist, as the Hist start getting sick and the Argonians have to contend with actual freedom.

Hammerfell: exploration of Cultural Traditionalism through the lens of the Hoonding, and whether or not traditions and messianic figures are actually good.

Elsweyr: ACTUALLY deal with the consequences of the Void Nights.

Valenwood: confront the horrific consequences of Pact Breaking as Aldmeri extremists in the face of advancing Commonwealth forces unleash the Ooze.

Summerset: climactic conflict between the Tamrielic Commonwealth (long story) and the quickly collapsing Aldmeri Dominion. Go full WWII, including dissident political factions taking the opportunity to defect now that the iron fist of the Thalmor is cracking.

river cloak
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Ooo nice this gets me hyped for es game

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I can’t wait to see where elder scrolls 6 takes us

feral viper
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The quality of Starfield in that regard has given me some optimism, actually, as it's stories have a great deal more depth and nuance than we've typically gotten from TES for the last 15 years.

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At the very least, it should be better than Big Monster Am Bad

forest surge
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Like you know neither side is perfect, the Powers that Be basically pushed for that War, normal people just wanting to live there lives got there lives ended over something petty.

forest surge
feral viper
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I believe I have... there's a whole lot ive done and started doing but never finished, etc...

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But on a general level, the writing and subjects approaches are far more mature, both in content and execution, than what we've seen in Skyrim or Oblivion, and I think that bodes well for TES

forest surge
feral viper
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Maybe, though... well, with out spoiling, it gets much more High Sci Fi...

forest surge
feral viper
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Still, regardless of the reasons, I appreciate the more nuanced and thoughtful approach to its writing. Though I hate Akila and the Collective, they at least aren't the one trick pony, very shallow, barely though out Stormcloaks shouting 'Muh Freedumbs!'.

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I think that the factions in Starfield actually have some good foundations, and motivations... whereas in Skyrim its factions were too poorly defined and you just projected your motivations on them. And in Fallout 4 the factions were too Meme driven and one dimensional.

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And I hope they continue to take that lesson, of creating REAL organisations with complexity, and applying it to future TES games.

forest surge
dapper sluice
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Who be down if ES6 tutorial was placed while our character started in a medieval prison

feral viper
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The type of prison, I think, depends on where the game is set.

dapper sluice
eager remnant
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My wife is 200 hours into Starfield. From time to time I glance over at her monitor and, I have to say, I am impressed by the variety of landscapes, lighting, creatures and vegetation I'm seeing. This gives me hope for TES VI. If they ca bring some of this variety to Tamriel I think it could be really stunning.

scenic spade
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So quiet here.

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Come on folks, The Elder Scrolls franchise is still the best. 😦

wide garnet
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Just wait until the Starfield hype cools down.

feral viper
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Starfield has been taking a good deal of my time, yes. So has prep work for a mod project I've tentatively signed on to...

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But I'm taking notes regarding what they've done, and what I think would be useful for TES

feral viper
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So far, on Keep, I have...

Ailments
Persuasion mini game
Lockpicking mini game
Variable gravity
'Building' (shipbuilding system)
Settlement supply chains
General maturity of writing

And on Get Rid Of:

Talking Heads Dialogue.

forest surge
feral viper
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My problems are more technical than expressive. I hate how it commanders control, locks you into an unrelated interface, strips away world interaction, and totally lacks any sort of mechanism for peripheral awareness.

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So far, my worst encounter with it was having a conversation with a companion, when an enemy over 100m away started taking pot shots at us, standing in the middle of a field. So off Sarah runs to go kill some random enemy whose aggro range was too far, leaving me locked in a dialogue screen I could exit until she came back.

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I know that's not an intended interaction, and Esc SHOULD have gotten me out of it... but really, it's an interaction that shouldn't have been necessary.

Nor should having to scour the entire grid coordinate for anything that could possibly aggro you to prevent an interruption. And that's even assuming the conversation is elective, TWICE now I've been sucked into a forced dialogue before being able to properly secure a location, and then got jumped by some random wildlife.

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It's just a clunky way to approach dialogue that always had some major mechanical limitations. And those limitations are exasperated by not freezing time while in a conversation.

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Go back to the Fallout 4 System, focus on its strengths, and use a properly seamless Dialogue system that doesn't restrict your world interaction in the process.

Hell, with it, you could even integrate in-combat conversations, which would allow for all kinds of fun interactions.

feral viper
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If nothing else, it would allow for surrendering to Guards to be a lot more reliable.

eager remnant
forest surge
feral viper
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I didn't used to mind it. Until I really clicked with what FO4s system could do, and since then... it's just so glaringly inferior.

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Its like... eating grain all your life, and then suddenly having bread.

spare anchor
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feral viper
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Oh, I don't mean to belittle anyone's work. While I do not like the system in Starfield, it's definitely some of the best USE of it that we've seen in a BGS game.

It's just a shame that they had something bordering on revolutionary, and instead of refining it, the knee jerk reaction to FO4s less than stellar execution of dialogue had us go back to a mechanically inferior system.

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It would be like adopting an EXP and Points Buy system for TES, as opposed to its Skill Use system.

eager remnant
feral viper
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Oooh... well. Alrighty then.

dusk iron
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Ah only 5 more years

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Right when I finish college

feral viper
feral viper
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Alright, so. To backpeddle a bit to the whole Difficulty topic... I had an encounter in Starfield that perfectly encapsulates what I want out of a difficulty system.

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Without spoilers, I was on a frozen planet, and... let's just say, underprepared. But I went out anyway. An hour later, I have severe frostbite and hypothermia, and my status effect is 'Crippled'. Literally everything depleted my stamina, incoming damage was increased, weapon accuracy was decreased, and my camera was even blurry.

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In essence, I elected not to pay attention to the effects and modifiers I was contending with, and paid the consequence, barely limping back to somewhere I could be treated.

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THATS the sort of difficulty I find meaningful challenge in. Being aware of the systems you are interacting with, and having to juggle them to be effective. Not higher damage and bigger health bars, but rather more meaningful and impactful emphasis on interconnected mechanics.

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Ignoring environmental effects bit me in the ass, when it came time to actually fight in that state... and having to deal with those consequences made for one of the most tense encounters I have ever had in a Bethesda game.

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Far moreso than my boss fight I've had in a Souls game.

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And that's the sort of difficulty that I think should be the focus. At East and Normal, these various contributing systems have an impact, sure, but you have to REALLY ignore them to run afoul of the consequences.

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On Hard and Legendary, however, you need to know them inside and out. Know what they do, how to manage them, and how to juggle them to maximise your functionality.

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For instance, Hypothermia in Starfield will only leave you crippled. With some slogging, you can make it back from this, of course, and at worst is really just an extreme inconvenience.

Now, imagine you up the difficulty, and Hypothermia can't just be 'Cured', but instead needs to be 'treated' stage by stage. Now letting it get back becomes more work to deal with, and as soon as that Hypothermia warning comes up, you have to seriously consider whether or not it's worth continuing.

And then you put it to Legendary, and now Hypothermia can actually become fatal on top of that. So it's not just that it leaves you vulnerable to other threats, poor management of the problem can literally kill you.

You don't have to change health pools and damage when you expand the range of things that a player MUST be aware of.

livid ingot
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OH I get what you're saying now. At the start of that I was like: you want difficulty in TES to punish you for ignoring important mechanics?
But yeah, having to juggle more is one way of increasing difficulty.

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I play RTS games like Age of Empires, and while they are called "strategy" they are really more attention management games. You not only have to keep multiple balls in the air at once, but you to know where to spend the most attention and which balls you can afford to temporarily drop

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I think TES needs to introduce (and reintroduce) more systems to make this work though

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A friend and I were just talking about Starfield's overburdensome burden mechanic. That could be a system that could adjust based on the difficulty. On Easy it could be nonexistant, on Hard you might be only able to carry a very realistic load

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Likewise this could be a feature with weapon and armor durability, or experimenting with spells

feral viper
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Yeah.

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Difficulty should, in essence, make juggling the various mechanics more essential, rather than just giving everything bigger health pools or having them hit like a freight train

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Don't want to worry about Armour Penetration, Scaling Encumbrance, Serious Ailments, and Starvation? Simple. Turn it down to Easy or Normal.

livid ingot
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And maybe at higher difficulties these additional challenges can be leveraged for greater advantage that is unavailable to easier difficulties.

forest surge
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The Suit Mechanic needs work in regards to Hot or Cold Environments, it depletes to quickly to be effective.

forest surge
feral viper
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Oh absolutely. It's far from a perfect system

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But it helps convey what I mean.

forest surge
forest surge
river cloak
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Omg I did not know you could tame a unicorn in Skyrim 👀

feral viper
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Yeah... most people I know have had pretty big free experiences. Somewhat ironically, I've encountered the only game breaking bug I've found in a Bethesda game since Morrowind.

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So, you know. Bugs gonna bug.

feral viper
river cloak
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Oh i didn’t realise just playing on the switch version didn’t know it was a thing 😁

feral viper
# livid ingot And maybe at higher difficulties these additional challenges can be leveraged fo...

For some things I could definitely see that. Like Hunger. Baseline Easy, you'd just have the Foods Buff.

Normal, you get a Satisfied buff for eating regularly, on top of the buff from the specific food.

On Hard, you get Well Fed as a second level buff, which decays into Satisfied (using the sliding scale of Starfield's afflictions) but can also slip into a Hungry debuff.

And then on Legendary, you get the Starving debuff added on, giving you a full 4 tier scale which requires you to actively pack snacks to maintain peak functionality.

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As an example spread, rather than specific details..

river cloak
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can you guys imagine the hype for es6 when it comes around

feral viper
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Yes. And like most hype, it will be entirely unreasonable

livid ingot
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I hope when the next TES VI teaser drops, a year out from release or so, TES conventions actually become a thing

eager remnant
# livid ingot I hope when the next TES VI teaser drops, a year out from release or so, TES con...

Some of us on Bthesda's forums talked about getting together back around 2002-2004. But the fanbase was much smaller in those days and we lived all over the globe. We couldn't pick a location that more than two pf us could travel to. We lost some of that tight-knit community feeling after Oblivion came out and nobody on the forums ever mentioned the idea again. I think the Elder Scrolls is popular enough nowadays that a convention of sorts might be feasible.

snow delta
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Servers up yet?

livid ingot
livid ingot
river cloak
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I want oblivion and morrowind on the switch probs won’t happen but I can dream 💭 StarfieldAdoringFan

stuck minnow
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Elder scrolls should crossover with warhammer(gnarly)

feral viper
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Naaaah... though I do think the Crusader Kings mod, Elder Kings, makes a pretty good case for a TES Grand Strategy game

stuck minnow
bright siren
feral viper
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Yup. It's still being developed, but even the current version is pretty great.

dusk iron
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I wonder if I will reach 1000 hours in skyrim by the time tesVI is out

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right now I have 510

river cloak
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It’s possible, I’ve only just hit 115 hours my first play through

river cloak
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I’d love to have mods available on the switch version but it’s to underpowered however for the next nintendo console would love see some mods

feral viper
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It's difficult to predict Nintendo's consoles... but based on their last few consoles, I wouldn't expect power.

river cloak
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That’s true I guess I’m just hoping for ps4 or more on power level then I’d be happy

nimble pond
dusk iron
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I also never used mods

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I could get way more hours from there