elder-scrolls-general-chat

[delicate ledge]

My big complaint with Skyrim is that necessary skills are locked behind perk trees.

Like, obviously the perk system was adapted from Fallout, but in Fallout, they actually were just that, perks. If you had 100 sneak, you still could easily pickpocket. But in Skyrim, doesn't matter if you have 100 smithing, if you didn't invest your skill points properly.

Also, locking perks you want behind useless perks.

I think they need to go back to the way Oblivion did things in regards to skills.

Perks should be things you pick up on your adventures, like the Agent perks in Skyrim.

[pulsar root]

As long as they keep the your skill increases as you do(Whatever activity that involves said skill like using bow and arrow increases your Bow skill).

[delicate ledge]

True, that should stay as it's been a Hallmark of the series

[winged raven]

Maybe skill gains in areas like enchanting, crafting, or blacksmithing could be incorporated more into gameplay by opening up more chances to do it, than just for your own personal equipment. What if you could open up shops of your own. Maybe you take 3 months of the year off from adventuring to supply your shops, then adventure the rest. NPCs could buy your crafted items or forged weapons. And, maybe while you are adventuring, you might even find some of your own items pulled from a corpse. Take your looted items to your shops where they can be resold again. Heck, you might even get killed by an NPC with one of your own weapons. Wouldn't that be amusing. 😄

You can kind of do that if you want and sell to the blacksmiths already there, but something about having your own shop makes it more personal.

[mellow lava]

In ESO, should make getting to larger chat window easier. I only got to it one time, and two guilds were on it. I wanted to join one.

[mellow lava]

In ESO, I accidentally hit a villager. He tried to murder my character. So, I killed him. That was self defense, not murder to me. And I paid the 11 gold bounty on me to a guard. Thought not much gold.

[eager remnant]

Hi, Scott86! This Discord is for the single-player Elder Scrolls games developed by Bethesda Game Studios. Feel free to discuss Elder Scrolls Online on the Zenimax Online forums. You can find them here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/

[feral viper]

I am hard on the opposite side of that. I can't stand how linear and homogeneous the Perk system is in Oblivion, and think they need to double down on Skyrim's approach.

Going so far as to say they could probably abandon Skill having any impact outside of EXP generation altogether. Though that's definitely a more radical approach that may not be necessary.

On a superficial level, allowing Skill to have a minor impact on the actual effectiveness of the governing activity allows you to at least replicate the slow refinement of ability caused by repetition. Even if you aren't actually learning anything new or profound, you do tend to get marginally better just by going through the motions.

[dim reef]

I would argue that they either need to have ALL skill levels impact something related to the skill or none of them.

Not just a select few.

[feral viper]

Oh, I don't mean to say that some Skills should, and some shouldn't. It should be all, or none.

[dim reef]

But I also agree that the perk system should be the focus.

[feral viper]

But I don't think Skill being the driving force in power scaling is really the best option anymore. It's too linear and all encompassing, and doesn't allow for the actual nuance and breadth these skills cover.

[dim reef]

Oh I agree there.

I think it'd be nice to have all skill levels passively increase something related to the skill but have perks be the main focus for improving skills.

[pulsar root]

If you're using it actively like a weapon you should get better at it. I like that kind of progression.(Broken record I know but still)

[feral viper]

Sure, which is why I think a minor bit of scaling may be appropriate.

But becoming good at something is more than just repetition. It's actively expanding your knowledge base, trying things, and refining techniques. Just doing the same thing over and over without thinking about it gives some degree of muscle memory, but it doesn't make you GOOD at something.

And that's what Perks represent. They're the active development and expansion of one's knowledge base and progression.

The problem with Oblivion's is... Well, they're bland, largely active abilities, and they're always developed the same way. Not every painter learns how to wetblend at the same time (if they ever do) but in Oblivion's approach every one learns at exactly the same time investment.

[slow garnet]

I think that, with Skyrim's Legendary system, that once you have made a skill Legendary, the level requirements should be removed on perks in that skill. So you would have the option of discarding or keeping (or even rearranging to different perks within the same skill tree) all the perks you've spent, subject only to the limitations of perk-tree pre-requisites (e.g. if you want Ebony Smithing you have to spend points in Steel and Orcish as well, if you want Master Conjuration you also have to spend the points in Novice, Apprentice, Adept and Expert Conjuration), but could do that right away with a skill level that had been re-set to 15.

[quartz grove]

Hey everyone I'm looking for new members and officers for guild called Dragon Reaper #ps4 see in game page to learn more

[eager remnant]

Hi, Ghosts! This Discord is for the single-player Elder Scrolls games developed by Bethesda Game Studios. Feel free to discuss Elder Scrolls Online on the Zenimax Online forums. You can find them here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/

[main trellis]

Hi everyone,
Is anybody know why Skyrim 10th anniversary is crashing so many times on ps5 and if a new update is coming ? Thanks !

[feral viper]

Really, I'd say just drop the Legendary system, and uncap Skill Levels. Make actual scaling stop at 100, and just let players continue to level them ad infinitum. That way you avoid the problem altogether.

[eternal tapir]

I just saw footage of Cyberpunk 2077's RTX Overdrive mode and i'm like...

How is ES6 going to live up to their visuals :p

[feral viper]

Spoilers. It won't.

Raw graphical fidelity has never been Bethesda's focus. And for the better, by and large, especially given that the one time a AAA studio even tried to match their type of game, it made a Bethesda launch look polished.

[dim reef]

Is this an Obsidian slight?

[feral viper]

No, it's a straight shot at Cyberpunk.

It's mostly playable now, but when it launched... Oh boy.

[dim reef]

Yeah, I played it on the Xbox One when it launched...

[feral viper]

It definitely goes to show that, despite the flack Bethesda gets for their bugs, when others try to match them they end up just as bad, if not worse.

Though comparing them is still somewhat dubious, given the way CDPR handles storytelling and your character.

Still, to the point... I would not expect anything truly next generation in terms of visuals. The closest Bethesda has come to that is with Morrowind, and well... That wasn't so much Next Generation as That Generation.

[solid crown]

How often does ESO have a bug where the character will go no collision i.e noclip

the NPC

[dim reef]

I do think a lot of people underestimate or just aren't aware of how massive BGS games are... and that isn't referring to map size. It's everything. All of the objects the players can interact with, all of the NPCs and how they function, the amount of items in the game, etc. There's so much to their games that other open world games just do not have.

[solid crown]

It climbed a ladder now its flying

I wonder if I replicated it would I also be able to climb through walls?

[dim reef]

You'd probably have more luck asking about this on the ESO forums, or you could join the ESO subreddit Discord server.

[dim reef]

I think this is a big reason that BGS doesn't really have any rivals in the type of games they develop.

[solid crown]

Not gonna bother. Their site is absolute garbage. Tried to make a new account because I realized my steam account is still linked to my old email address from 2011 - 2018 that doesn't exist anymore. Can't really look at a access code and its pissing me off by sending me that stuff in order to even go through support.

I would have to send a email to their main office to ask them to reset it. Which i doubt will get a response.

[dim reef]

Doesn't hurt to try.

[solid crown]

Yeah, personally I have tried.

I am not gonna continue trying, its as easy to get ahold of them when this happens as it is Sony

[hidden herald]

To be blunt, you will probably get absolutely no support for any in-game issues involving The Elder Scrolls Online here. This Discord is for Bethesda Games Studios titles. You need to contact ZeniMax Online Studios through their official website, or through the in-game support system within The Elder Scrolls Online. Complaining about support systems or not wanting to put in the effort to write a ticket for the appropriate system will not help you, and might even cause more problems by getting The Elder Scrolls Online talk disallowed altogether here.

[autumn ibex]

Anyone have advice for someone just starting ESO?

[spare anchor]

Hi! This server is for the single player TES games. You'd have better luck on the ESO forums. Here's the player guides sections: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/player-guides

[dim reef]

Do we know what will be the storyline of TESVI, and if it really will be on Hammerfell?

[dim reef]

We have no idea what the storyline for TES VI will be. There's practically zero information on the game out there.

The speculation about Hammerfell being the chosen province is based on the geography in the trailer, other hints BGS has dropped out of game, and bits of additional Redguard/Hammerfell lore added in Skyrim without any context.

[feral viper]

Well, what people think are hints, anyway.

Some of them are pretty... Well, Reed Richards can't reach that far.

[dim reef]

Well it cant be Black Marsh, Valewnood, Cyrodiil, Alinor, Skyrim, High Rock, Morrowind. Its either Hammerfell or Elsweyr, both have similar geography

[feral viper]

Technically it COULD be High Rock, given the geography we see. Though itd be coming at it from the south west in order to put the shoreline on that side

[pulsar root]

It being High Rock would be great honestly but I won't necessarily assume it will be.

[dim reef]

I kind of don't want High Rock because High Rock is a cesspit of political intrigue, and I don't know if I really trust BGS with handling that well after the last few games.

[feral viper]

Agreed.

Though I don't really trust them to handle a non-Indoeuropean inspired culture that much either...

[forest surge]

You guys don’t trust them on anything

[pulsar root]

Doesn't have to be a cesspit of naughty politics. Not everything has to be cynical minded(Balance out the...shadyness with some more down to earth and no I don't mean "NO DON'T CRITICIZE BGS").

[forest surge]

Or at least I feel like you guys are to worried about them messing up something

And it’s funny saying that in the Bethesda server of all things

That you can’t know if you trust them lol

[forest surge]

My issue is that if people have no faith on Bethesda doing anything right with there own series then why bother being excited for the next installment at all?

Or even wondering where? Because if it’s gonna be a place someone feels they will mess up then what’s the point?

[pulsar root]

I should also add Skyrim's politics was at least not bad, little as there was. For all the greyness there was, sometimes there is just a clear "wrong path" per say.

[forest surge]

Like I don’t know how else to say it, I don’t wanna make it sound like “Your not a fan” Type of deal or “Your Opinion is invalid.”

Just I never understand why your into the franchise and yet you fear they are gonna make a certain place they tackle suck?

I am gonna constantly question people on this because to me it makes no sense.

If a franchise legit did not do things right and I can’t trust them anymore I would just stop bothering with it. Rather than sitting around and talking about not trusting them to deliver in a server where people are actually looking forward to it.

So I ask the question, why look forward to Elder Scrolls VI?

[pulsar root]

I'm not cynical about ES6, I was just "humoring" them for the sake of argument.

[forest surge]

No not you, just people in general who tend to be

I experience this same behavior with other people when it comes to other franchises and so I am just confused on why people still follow something if they are not happy with what it’s done and are not confident going forward?

Sorry if I come across as rude, not my intention, it’s just it’s a mentality I do not frankly understand, If a franchise wasn’t doing what I wanted from it or wasn’t appealing to me in recent entries I would have given up on it long ago.

[feral viper]

I'm not cynical either. I just set expectations based on what I have evidence to indicate.

[forest surge]

So I legitimately ask, personally, because I want someone to help me understand, why continue?

[dim reef]

And it never will. No one is going to be able to make you understand.

All of our minds work differently.

[feral viper]

Well, technically they all work the same.

It's just very complicated and different developmental stages emphasise different behaviours and focuses

[forest surge]

It simply eludes me what keeps someone following something, if they have no faith in future projects?

It’s a behavior I experience not just here, just literally other franchises.

[feral viper]

Two options. Sunk Cost Falacy

And hope.

[dim reef]

I have every faith I will enjoy any game BGS produces. That's enough for me to anticipate the next entry.

[feral viper]

As do I. Ultimately, Bethesda has yet to release a major game that I did not get my money's worth from.

But 'Its fun' doesn't necessarily mean 'Its good' or that I don't have criticism. Or that I think it's even remotely close to its potential.

[dim reef]

The only part of their recent games I have felt poorly about is the story writing. And that would obviously be a major thing in High Rock with politics and whatnot.

[feral viper]

Oblivion and Legends are my only real complaints there.. though I'll fully admit it's more a conceptual strength otherwise, rather than execution.

[forest surge]

Honestly I don’t consider franchises as ever really hitting what those define as it’s potential

Potential is different in everyone’s eyes on what they do

What someone see’s as not hitting it’s potential is what someone see’s as hitting it’s potential.

[feral viper]

Which is fair. And it's why I try to elaborate on what i mean whenever I can.

[dim reef]

I just feel like you have poor timing when it comes to me, Wolf. I compliment BGS just as much as I nab at them. xD

[forest surge]

I know everyone is Passionate, me most of all to a fault, I am very supportive of the series and decisions made, (Depends on if it’s legitimately bad and there is nothing about it that can be seen as a good thing, I may love them but I’m not that naive on when something is down right horrible.) I know that whether it’s the mainline or the spin off’s the world keeps growing, I want to see everything because I am invested, so invested that it’s really the first Fantasy Series to draw me in unlike any other, yes even LOTR lol, that didn’t appeal to me, I mean I’m waiting every year for another Chapter for ESO to see more never before seen Locations, this year Necrom is coming, the Telvanni Peninsula never before seen! I have hype in my brain.

[feral viper]

And I think I do as well, both here and elsewhere... It's just my criticisms are the ones that generally garner the most discussion, and thus... Take up more space

Bethesda continues to make brilliant games. I don't care what the angsty 90s retro fanboys say, Fallout is better than ever. And Bethesda's always teetering on that precipice of absolute brilliance and revolution, mechanically.

The world of TES has just ... Fallen into largely derivative territory and lost what made it unique. At least in its depictions from Bethesda.

Their games are fantastic, and Fallout is clearly a labour of love. But it feels like the world of TES has lost that same passion

[forest surge]

The thing is I’m not looking for 100% Uniqueness

[forest surge]

Actually that’s opposite for people, they feel Elder Scrolls is the one getting the better treatment

[feral viper]

Nor am I. But I am looking for something that doesn't just feel like a watered down version of something I could get better, elsewhere.

[forest surge]

And Personally I feel Elder Scrolls has been doing better than Fallout these days

And this is coming from a Fallout Fan

[feral viper]

I definitely disagree. Also as a Fallout Fan.

But I also think New Vegas is the worst game in the franchise and basically irredeemable, so my opinion on the franchise tends to be unpopular

[forest surge]

When it comes to Elder Scrolls and Fallout while I appreciate being Unique, I don’t want something to necessarily be 100% Unique, it already feels unique as it is to me and that’s what matters, The Nords are Vikings, yeah that much is clear, but there is more to them that I still like and appreciate as a people, the Druids are similar to Dnd Druids, they still did something different despite being similar, I think they should try being unique for cultures but they don’t need to adhere to not basing them on certain cultures.

The Scorched are basically Hive Mind Zombies, sure, nothing unique but the story regarding it is what engages me.

These worlds already feel unique to me, they haven’t lost what made them unique for me, I appreciate trying to be more unique when they can, not necessarily all the time if that makes sense

I’ve always believed if you wanted to go for something creative you should, or if you wanted to base it off the culture, have it bear similarities but be different is also fine for me as there is still creativity involved in making something different. I just want them to do what works best for them in the end and it will be up to people to appreciate it or not.

[forest surge]

I most likely do

[feral viper]

And ultimately, I got the total opposite read from the Druids of Galen.

Theres still undercurrent of uniqueness to the world of TES, but it's frequently eroded by a certain adherence to 'Familiarity'. Which its self isn't a bad thing, but like I think Dark Souls overemphasises the wrong aspects of Challenge, these individuals overemphasise the wrong aspects of familiarity

Familiarity is a natural product of good worldbuilding. Creating environments and cultured and people with relatable motivations and logical, natural integration into the world's they are found in. It's not about the repetition of visible recognisable styles and memes and tropes, which is a pitfall that TES has fallen into since 2006.

[pulsar root]

On the Dark Souls part, I agree.

[forest surge]

Argonian’s have a Mesopotamian and Aztec Like Culture, which is familiar for me

Imo having a sense of familiarity is what helps make a good world alongside the mysterious parts

[feral viper]

Well, Aztec, there's very little Mesopotamian about them.

And I agree ... But that's not what I'm talking about.

[forest surge]

Pretty sure Morrowind falls into Memes and such category

Have you seen those youtube vids?

[feral viper]

Birthing memes, is different than being constructed of them. Though I mean Meme in an academic sense, not a Reddit sense

[forest surge]

You make it sound like Memes are such a bad thing to happen to Elder Scrolls of all things

[feral viper]

Inherently, no. However, overreliance on them can be.

[forest surge]

What like Arrow to The Knee?

[feral viper]

Take Nords for example. Now, they're just Viking Memes. Not ACTUAL Vikings, not ACTUAL 9th to 11th century Danish Principality backed Raiders, but every 14 year olds image of what Vikings were.

[forest surge]

They aren’t defined by Memes alone though

[feral viper]

Gone are the Welsh, Celtic, Garlic and proto-Germanic influences.

The only thing that Skyrim even attempted to add is the Neo-Akkadian Dragon Cult... But they're about as well developed as a stick figure because 'Thems the baddies'

[forest surge]

Personally not that upset over it, the fact they didn’t continue it with Morrowind with some Nords in the game is already telling

[feral viper]

And I am.

Though, I should stipulate... I am academically trained as an Anthropologist. So...

[forest surge]

I prefer Nords to be similar to Vikings but have there own history, there stories, there cultures and beliefs.

[feral viper]

The problem is, Vikings are not, and never were, a culture.

They were a JOB, within a wider culture.

[forest surge]

Pretty sure they were

[feral viper]

Pop culture has built them into this culture in its own right, but the reality is that they were just one aspect of Danish culture from about the 8th to the 12th century.

[forest surge]

I mean part of there beliefs was that dying in Battle was more worthy than growing old and dying that way, gain entry to Valhalla and help Odin during the time of Ragnarok

[feral viper]

But this trend is a common one, especially in a post pagan-revivalist world. The amount of stuff that idolises Sparta these days is frankly nauseating...

[feral viper]

And no one ever remembers poor Freyja, who gets half of the souls of those who die in battle.

[forest surge]

I am not gonna pretend I know everything about Vikings and the wider Danish Culture as a whole, but Elder Scrolls as a series is fluid, which is why games like Arena for one is not taken 100% series in every aspect it did besides what would later form Elder Scrolls truly, same with Daggerfall despite it having introduced the vast majority of the Lore, but the games in general have always played with The Unreliable narrator among other things, the lore has honestly begun to stabilize more since Skyrim and not change to much

[feral viper]

Technically, Redguard introduced the majority of the lore.

[forest surge]

Now am I saying it’s okay that they ignore previous games and what they showed? No of course not, but there was clearly decisions made in the end of what they wanted to do for certain cultures and the series as a whole

[feral viper]

Daggerfall set some paving stones, but was it's self pretty light on lore really.

[forest surge]

The Lore is Fluid starting from Arena to Skyrim, and has more or less changed since besides ESO expanding on what wasn’t known or could be seen as unreliable Narrator for what had yet to actually be shown.

[feral viper]

Sure, but the lack of doing anything interesting with that fluidity is my problem.

[forest surge]

IYO

Imo it’s been getting better due to ESO

[feral viper]

Like, they can't even use a consistent scale in setting, to the point where the Battle of the Red Ring is approached as if Oblivion is TO SCALE

Which is...

https://tenor.com/view/concern-concern-meter-level-of-concern-level-gif-20351438

[forest surge]

They can’t show a battle based on the actual scale of it, that’s impossible considering the games as has been stated are not seen as the True Tamriel in size

[feral viper]

It's not about the game.

[forest surge]

Then be more clear plz

[feral viper]

The book The Great War, in its section on the Battle of the Red Ring, describes Battlefield maneuvers that only work if they're operating off Oblivion being to scale.

[forest surge]

I’m pretty sure there not being a real Tamriel makes that difficult to actually explain the battle properly. XD

[feral viper]

Fighting to encircle Lake Rumare, for instance. Even at the SMALLEST scale, that would be like encircling the Lake Ladoga, something which would require hundreds of thousands to millions of soldiers, and take week s

[forest surge]

Well I suppose you must be a genius at this kind of stuff.

[feral viper]

No, I just put more than 5 minutes thought into things.

[forest surge]

I still feel like your taking the idea of what the book described as to seriously

[feral viper]

This isn't just a TES problem of course. Warcraft does it all the time.

Cairn walking from Orgrimmar to Mulgore in a morning, while it took Thrall WEEKS to march the same distance.

[forest surge]

I don’t even like WOW

[feral viper]

It's an example of a problem. The total lack of any consistent idea of scale in the setting is a pretty consistent issue.

This is just a very glaring example to emphasise the point.

[forest surge]

Eh, again while I appreciate it it wasn’t exactly something that was leaving my head scratching for 10 Minutes on how it wasn’t accurate enough.

Do I like more accuracy? Sure, but it’s already done and it’s what it is now.

[feral viper]

And we have to deal with the consequences of that, yes. Which is why I criticise it, so we ideally don't have to repeat that problem in the future.

But as I've said in Lore, I don't actually think Bethesda HAS an answer to many of the things it SHOULD. Which is what feeds into the problem.

Their worldbuilding is done ad hoc and in isolation for the game they want to make, rather than holistically to fit in the world they've already made. And the setting as a whole has suffered for that.

[forest surge]

That’s the point of the world they’ve made, that whatever you read and hear shouldn’t be taken as 100% the case.

[feral viper]

Oblivion is a prime example of that. Oblivion is about as generic as it's possible to be, for a Fantasy game. Literally nothing in it is distinctly Elder Scrolls, except for the one Elder Scrolls you actually steal.

[feral viper]

That's not at all what I'm saying

[forest surge]

Also Ad hoc? I’m not exactly a 12th Level Intellect.

[feral viper]

When needed, individually, out of necessity.

Their approach to worldbuilding is less "How would this work in universe?" And more "This is how this works, even if we've previously said it doesn't"

[forest surge]

That is Unreliable Narrator

[feral viper]

No, no it isn't.

[forest surge]

Yes it is, the series literally does that. XD

Okay, maybe not in a book sense

Or always in a book sense

[feral viper]

That's just sloppy retcon. Unreliable Narrator is using the limited perspective of an author to only partially or subjectively explain something in universe.

[forest surge]

I think someone else should talk with you on this because most of the time we talk I rarely if ever understand what you are trying to say.

[feral viper]

Randomly changing the size of the world to make it fit whatever you want to say is not unreliable narrator. Randomly changing how Magic works because you don't want to deal with people flying isn't unreliable narrator. Randomly declaring Martin Septim a direct descendant of Tiber Septim because you totally forgot almost the entire dynasty is descended from his brother isn't unreliable narrator.

It's just sloppy writing and worldbuilding.

[forest surge]

Idk what to say other than I am confused whenever speaking to you.

[feral viper]

And I guess I will have to take responsibility for that, because it's my job to convey my point, and I have apparently failed.

[forest surge]

I don’t dislike you but you make it hard to understand you, it’s not just me but I’ve seen your interactions with others to and how it tends to go

[feral viper]

Well, in some cases it's because I think some things people adore, like Races, are dumb as heck

[forest surge]

That’s your problem, you don’t fit essentially within the mindset of what other’s believe.

[feral viper]

I don't think that's a problem

[forest surge]

Oh it could be, depends on what you say, because nobody would try to say otherwise about what one says

You say Races are dumb as heck and the others were quick to say otherwise

[feral viper]

And I think their justifications for them ultimately (and always do) come up short, based more in 'This is how it's always been done'.

And that's the core problem, ideologically. I have zero respect for traditional approaches to things, or 'comfort'. If there is a better way to do something, it is better, regardless of how used to the old way people are. And we should never, EVER settle for 'Good Enough'.

You always try to do better, to improve. Build better worlds, build deeper societies. Build more engaging characters. Tell more nuanced stories.

[forest surge]

We’ve never been against that, we just aren’t into changing what works for others

We should strive for better but better is subjective based on who you ask

What you want to be better may not be better for someone else

[feral viper]

Sure. And I just fundamentally disagree that anything Bethesda has written for TES in the last 20 years is better than what came before.

You can disagree with that, that's fine.

IMO, they've been shallow, heavy handed, trope driven and clearly 'going through the motions' while Fallout takes all the passion.

[forest surge]

The thing is that People say the same for Fallout and not Elder Scrolls

[feral viper]

The actual mechanics behind Skyrim in particular are fantastic, but the world? The world has lost most of its magic and style and character and become about as generic as it's possible to be.

[forest surge]

Fallout 4’s story and character interactions weren’t exactly that good either

Only a few examples

[feral viper]

Yeah, but 'People' also think New Vegas is one of the best games ever made, so...

[feral viper]

On an industry whole? No. Not even close. For Bethesda? Anyone who says they weren't some of the best they've ever done is just flat out wrong.

It's like people claiming that Skyrim allows you to too easily master everything, when on launch that was literally, factually impossible.

[pulsar root]

Generic is a very overused term in video game discussion. Personally I view Skyrim as dated but time does do that to you.

[forest surge]

Nah, it really wasn’t the best

And that’s my opinion

[feral viper]

In fact, Skyrim was the first Bethesda game since Arena were you literally could NOT master everything. Though it was functionally impossible in Daggerfall, even if technically possible.

[feral viper]

Well, then your opinion is just factually wrong. Morrowind and Oblivion had no real companion system, a disposition system that didn't actually contribute to anything in any functional way, and robotic character interactions outside of the PC (if they interacted at all).

FO3 introduced a companion dynamic that at least offered some characterisation outside of quest NPCs, but was pretty superficial.

Skyrim basically used the exact same system, though with the majority of its companions being basically dead eyed pack mules. Serena is the only one that has any real interaction or identity.

[forest surge]

Your right, I am wrong.

Fallout 4 is better, let’s throw it a party, it’s story and characters were still not that good

And only a select few among them were good to me

[feral viper]

FO4 has every Companion have a unique personality and preferences, interactions and story, while also having general NPCs that actually engage with the player and world more directly. It's got a lot of filler NPCs too, of course, but even then walk around and interact with things more than NPCs in previous games.

I'm not saying they're GOOD, but claiming that earlier games did it better is just wrong. Even going back to Morrowind, Bethesda's characters have always been... Well, present.

[forest surge]

The only reason Fallout 4 is better would simply be do the fact it came out after Skyrim when the two could take certain cues from each other

In fact I know Bethesda makes there next games in mind with what worked in another game compared and what didn’t

Talking Protagonist is definitely never happening again

[feral viper]

God I hope not

There's some advantages to talking PCs, sure, but the sacrifices in this style of game aren't worth it

However, going back to 'People and their opinions are wrong'... FO4s actual dialogue system was brilliant. It was terribly used, and everyone hated it though.

And because it was terribly used and everyone hated it, they've already gone back to Talking Heads, which is just...

Why not go back to smashing rocks together.

[forest surge]

Fallout’s worldbuilding is not better to me considering the Raiders still feel generic to me.

76 has done that with better results but even then I doubt it will last

[feral viper]

Oh, definitely. Raiders aren't a strong point. But neither are Bandits in TES

Or, well ... ANY medieval fantasy

[forest surge]

Bandits are only as good as the one leading it.

[feral viper]

Which in TES is, if we're lucky, Bandit Lord_001

More often than not, they don't have a leader, and are just a random gaggle of people in a cave

[forest surge]

The reason I am not of the idea Fallout has done better with it’s worldbuilding is due to the fact they rely on the Brotherhood of Steel to much for each game

As much as I am a fan of them

[feral viper]

Oh, they definitely over rely on some elements. But TES does the same

And the Brotherhood is infinitely better than the Blades in every way

[forest surge]

They are but I don’t believe the Blades are by any definition the Brotherhood of the series

[feral viper]

They look cooler, have better characters better motivations, better history .. and they occasionally actually win.

[forest surge]

Or at all really.

I rarely ever think of the Blades

[feral viper]

I wish I could escape them like that

[forest surge]

They just don’t scream “We sell Copies.”

The Brotherhood Sell Fallout Titles

[feral viper]

True

[forest surge]

For Elder Scrolls What sold them is Tamriel

[feral viper]

If anything, the Blades are just clinging to your ankle crying and trying to be relevant

[forest surge]

It wasn’t a faction in particular

[feral viper]

I don't really think Tamriel is what sold TES.

In fact, I think the rise in Open World RPGs over the last decade has made it clear that, what sold TES, has always been the sort of game it is.

[forest surge]

I mean for me it’s Tamriel, I can’t get enough of it’s world

[feral viper]

MOST people, don't give a rats ass about the setting or cultures or world.

They just see a big, open RPG sandbox

[forest surge]

Of course not, at the beginning that’s what it is, later on it can change.

[feral viper]

True. And I'll admit, that's how it started for me, way back with Daggerfall.

[pulsar root]

Its a fantasy world with Magic. "You have my attention"

[feral viper]

Then Morrowind came out. And I HATED it.

[forest surge]

It was just because it was on Gamepass really, I didn’t care for the series at the time and it was staring me in the face with Oblivion.

[feral viper]

I wasn't one of the ones threatening the devs online for ruining TES, but... I was definitely not one of its supporters. It took me some time to warm up to it, and it's ultimately the world I fell in love with.

Aaaand... Then Oblivion came out. And I played it through, but it had none of that magic and depth and utterly, totally failed to capture me in any way. It felt like bad fanfiction rather than anything remotely in the same world as Morrowind.

But FO3 restored a degree of my faith in Bethesda, so I ended up giving Skyirm a chance. And it was a marked improvement over Oblivion.

But the setting was, and still is, a shadow of what I fell in love with.

[forest surge]

Oblivion’s Thieves and Dark Brotherhood Guilds were something I liked more over Skyrims

[feral viper]

Hard 180 for me.

[forest surge]

I just don’t find it to be a shadow as it is currently, it’s the same series I fell in love with.

[feral viper]

I remember having to force myself to even finish the Dark Brotherhood the first time I played it, and to this day I think it's only rivaled by the Arena for the worst story in the entire franchise.

[forest surge]

Funny thing is a majority of people say the Dark Brotherhood Quest in Oblivion is the best one in the series

[feral viper]

Yeah, and millions of people think 50 Shades of Grey is romantic.

[forest surge]

50 Shades of Grey is just bleh

[feral viper]

Then you should be able to get my point there.

[forest surge]

Didn’t you say you had unpopular Opinions prior?

[pulsar root]

I only dislike that the Brotherhood is close to dying, I prefer it be well not suffering.

[feral viper]

Many. Though I try to largely support my positions with reasonable arguments and evidence.

In the case of the Dark Brotherhood, ignoring the actual worldbuilding problems with how the organisation functions, it's own story isn't internally consistent with its own logic.

[feral viper]

I don't want it to die. Because I want it to suffer in ignominy for an eternity.

The Dark Brotherhood is another example of just... Wildly nonsensical writing creating unnecessary plot holes because they wanted to do something and didn't actually take the time to integrate it into the world in anything but the most superficial way.

[forest surge]

I think the issue is we are aware of the series issues but your painting it like it’s the worst thing and some of us aren’t looking at it from the perspective of the series squandered what it could have done.

[feral viper]

In some things, yes. I look at what could have been, vs what we god, and lament the lost potential.

[forest surge]

Like I don’t know how else to explain it other than you have a good intentions for the series but your making us feel like… we don’t know any better?

[feral viper]

But in the case of the Brotherhood... It's literally less functional than what came before.

[feral viper]

That may just be an old habit from university, and argumentative structure in essay writing. Make an assertion directly and confidently, and support it with points.

If you LIKE the Dark Brotherhood, that's fine. But if you claim it actually functions, or it's story isn't full of unexplained plot holes, that's an assertion that can be directly examined in a critical way.

[dim reef]

I actually like the Blades. Hate the Brotherhood.

The only good BoS is the one in 3, and it's not technically the BoS.

[feral viper]

It was also my favorite, because it was very well justified and naturally integrated in a believable way.

[forest surge]

3 was my preferred Fallout Game over 4 despite the improvements in other areas.

[pulsar root]

I don't even like that the Blades are basically "Jedi ed" so to speak(Wiped out). I like the faction, a bit too asian themed to my tastes but I think they are worth exploring.

[dim reef]

Which is weird because the writing is so bad imo.

It has cool quests and characters, but the actual storyline is terrible.

[feral viper]

I know everyone stomped their feet and screamed about them not being the 'Real' brotherhood... But soldiers stationed far from home, working with locals, historically tend to end up very attached to those locals. And that external influence would have significantly shifted their more radical tendencies. So the Brotherhood becoming more like defenders of the civilisation that remains makes perfect sense.

[dim reef]

Well yeah it's realistic and also why I love them. I just mean that they've technically been disavowed by the Council of Elders and are thus not officially BoS.

[forest surge]

The dead drops being swapped out to kill other Brotherhood Members was legit an oh **** Moment

[feral viper]

The part that lost me, was when they killed Lechance. And then... Turned around and for some reason trusted your word that you were just acting on someone else's orders? Like... Was the entire Black Hand dropped on their heads?

[dim reef]

😭 I saw it coming.

[feral viper]

"No, I swear, someone told me to do it. It wasn't my idea at all"

https://tenor.com/view/madagascar-alex-works-for-me-im-okay-with-that-sounds-good-to-me-gif-22612692

[dim reef]

Yes, they were. You killed so many members that the new replacements were dummies.

[pulsar root]

Kill the smart ones and the newbies won't ever understand.

[dim reef]

Also having the traitor be someone you've never met before was weird. Makes the betrayal far less personal.

And thus gives me a major "what's the point?" feel.

[feral viper]

Also, having the entire leadership of a continent spanning organisation living in the same region...

Like, if part of the story involved the Black Hand mysteriously being recalled to Cyrodiil, and then dying... The at least you explain why everyone seems to live on the same freaking street

Not that Skyrim doesn't have similar problems. It's total failure to convey Alduin's motivations for instance.

Like, is he trying to end the world, or is he trying to take it over?

Does Gargamel want to eat the Smurfs, or turn them to gold?

[dim reef]

https://tenor.com/ZlRL.gif

[forest surge]

That was odd yeah, at the time I just assumed because Cyrodiil was the heart of The Empire so that’s why

[dim reef]

"We have a problem."
"A member of the Black Hand will be there to handle your issue in 6 weeks, provided no hiccups in travel occur."

[feral viper]

Not to directly hit the Brotherhood with these sorts of logic questions though

The Blackwood Company also makes no sense.

[pulsar root]

"Listen to some lute music until one of our employees can assist you"

[dim reef]

Blackwood Company? Never heard of it.

[feral viper]

How are they taking all the contracts from the Fighters Guild, when they have a tendency to screw up or actively Kill THEIR CLIENTS!

Like, are they paying people to hire them?

[forest surge]

Yeah I didn’t like that one as much

[feral viper]

Antagonists in the Oblivion Fighters Guild

[forest surge]

Mages Guild wasn’t any better

[dim reef]

I. Said. Never. Heard. Of. It.

[feral viper]

Lol

RoboCop 3 Protocol, gotcha

[dim reef]

Oblivion has no Fighters Guild questline.

[forest surge]

I only liked Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion, I didn’t like the Companions much in Skyrim or that Thieves Guild.

Skyrim’s Winterhold Guild Quest I would say I liked better

[feral viper]

Thieves Guild in Skyrim started off well. At least you felt like a criminal, instead of Robin Hood.

Though the Forced Start Skyrim tended to do with some things was a terrible idea.

[pulsar root]

Companions starts out nice but not being able to say no to the Werewolf part is...terrible.

[forest surge]

I stole an Elder Scroll in Oblivion, that was way more epic to me then Skyrim’s

[dim reef]

I love aspects of Skyrim's Thieves Guild. The actual questline? Nope. But the mechanics, cast of characters, shadowmarks, how they handled radiant quests, etc.? All great.

[feral viper]

Companions was... Ok, though definitely need more padding to fill it out.

College of Winterhold was solid, especially if you actually play it as a Mage.

Though, IMO, it pretty much kills the Nord narrative on what happened at Sarthaal.

[forest surge]

That initiation to get in though was…

[forest surge]

I didn’t like it

[dim reef]

College of Winterhold had the most potential of anything in Skyrim imo.

But it was so poorly executed it pains me.

[feral viper]

I think it comes closest to realising its potential as well. But even then, it falls quite short.

Skyrim in general is just too... Rushed.

Every single storyline in it feels more like the Cliffs Notes than an actual story. Like you're rushing around to hit the bullet points instead of actually engaging with the narrative.

[forest surge]

I always felt like RPG Main Storylines are to short at times anyway

[feral viper]

Most of the time, yeab

[dim reef]

This is actually a great way to phrase it.

[feral viper]

Then some times, they just drag ON AND ON

Especially in JRPGs...

[forest surge]

I have brought this up before that maybe the main quests for RPG’s should be lengthier, but some dismissed it

[feral viper]

But yeah, while I think the actual stories Skyrim has are better than Oblivion's in almost every way... Pacing is where they really fall short.

[feral viper]

Absolutely. I'd say, in general, 30-40% longer

[forest surge]

The only Stories I prefer over Skyrim’s in Oblivion’s Main Quest, Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild, and other side quests being smaller scale but enjoyable to play like the paranoid Wood Elf

[dim reef]

I think Oblivion generally had better side quests.

[feral viper]

Some of its individual side quests were solid, I'll give it that.

[dim reef]

Yeah, I mean those specifically.

Too many in Skyrim are just dungeon dives. Oblivion had a solid amount of variety.

[feral viper]

The women who seduce men at the local bar, and then rob them when they're naked back at their house? Awesome quest.

It's short, concise, and has all the layers and nuance I want from a game.

[pulsar root]

Some people just think the problem of open world games is too big and just go "No make small worlds" Like the point is, focusing all your design on just the size. A moderate size increase will do the job(Starfield not withstanding).

[feral viper]

I think there's a line to walk, of course. But I do think you CAN go bigger

You just can't sacrifice things to do, for the sake of bigger

Looking at you, No Man's Sky

Aaaand bullox... Chaos Dwarves came out today, and my Total War save no longer works. Guess that's my cue to go to bed early.

G'night folks.

[dim reef]

Night, Terical!

[forest surge]

Man War in Cyrodill is crazy I tell ya

[ripe abyss]

So I’m confused about something so Microsoft wants to make games pass on like all devices and things won’t that make it time more time for any future elder scrolls game? The more I think about the more I worry about how long it gonna take for this game to come out! But I’m sure Microsoft got a plan.

[feral viper]

Microsoft will only make it faster. The length so far, and likely into the future, is all Bethesda

If Microsoft does anything, it would be to take the IP from BGS and give it to another studio, NOT to delay the studio's most profitable franchise longer.

[grim flume]

Don’t you guys think some of Skyrim’s modding scene is a bit wierd

[weary smelt]

How so?

[grim flume]

Like

All of the adult mods

I don’t rlly like them

Breaks the lore

And also is just weird

[weary smelt]

Are you talking about the NSFW ones?

[grim flume]

Yeah

[weary smelt]

Eh, doesn’t really bother me. If it’s the skimpy armor, I can kinda see it. But anything that goes further isn’t really what I would call lore-breaking.

[grim flume]

Yeah

I avoid them completely

Because it’s not my thing

[weary smelt]

Then I guess we’ll leave it at that then.

[eager remnant]

Hi, RyanVDP! We have a chat for the discussion of Skyrim mods. Feel free to post your thoughts about mods over there. #skyrim-se-mods 🙂

[grim flume]

Alright, thanks for the info! Still pretty new here.

[dapper lichen]

question: will we ever see an elder scrolls game on another continent besides tamrial

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-maybe-indifferent-gut-gif-8856605

[pulsar root]

https://tenor.com/view/peter-griffin-perhaps-family-guy-thinking-gif-13587558

[grim flume]

Guys should I get online just to explore the province’s?

[dim reef]

https://tenor.com/bjPil.gif

[dim reef]

Eh, I would say only get it if you plan to invest any amount of time into it. Exploring the various zones is going to inevitably cost money.

And there's little reason to spend anything if you don't plan to actually play it. IMO.

[feral viper]

Yeah.

While I ENJOY ESO as a game, exploring in it definitely doesn't match Bethesda's games. So if that's what you want going in, it's going to be a disappointment.

[grim flume]

Yeah

Also it’s online, idk about you but I prefer a singleplayer experience rather than an mmo

[dim reef]

I enjoy both.

If I play online games, they're probably MMOs. xD

[grim flume]

When do you guys think all of beyond Skyrim will be finished

The mod project?

Oh we should probably take this to #1067467528353370152

[feral viper]

Never.

[grim flume]

No #1067467528353370152

Huh Im confused

[feral viper]

Most of those projects never actually finish, and exist in a perpetual development. Even if they do get to the point of being pretty good.

[grim flume]

I think they will finish in 2030

If not then later

[dim reef]

I do think Skyblivion will finish at some point.

[grim flume]

They said they aim for 2025

[dim reef]

I'm a lot more skeptical about Beyond Skyrim.

[grim flume]

It’s made by the same team isn’t it?

[eager remnant]

What are you confused about?

[grim flume]

If I click it, it takes me to the discussion page when I want it take me to the text channel

I wanted to let everyone know that we should have the modding discussion in that channel

Like you said earlier

[eager remnant]

I'm not sure I understand. Are you unable to use text in that chat?

The discussion page IS text.

[grim flume]

Oh I can’t send a picture

To show you

Sorry for any confusion

[feral viper]

No. At least, not in a state they would call finished. I suspect they will hit a proper Beta state by the time TES6 releases, and then interest will sharply fall off. Some people will keep it plodding along indefinitely, but I don't actually expect it to ever really finish.

[eager remnant]

At any rate, folks, this is not the chat to discuss mods.

[grim flume]

Ok I’ll ping you both to the channel I’m talking about

[dim reef]

What is the purpose of this channel?

[feral viper]

General chat. Regarding the Elder Scrolls.

[eager remnant]

This is a chat where we discuss the single-player series developed by Bethesda Game Studios.

[dim reef]

What's the purpose if said games already have their own channels? Why discourage discussion about ESO, as often happens, when that's a part of the franchise? Why is the discussion of non-BGS Fallouts allowed in #fallout-general-chat?

[eager remnant]

If you take a close look at the title of this Discord you will see that it is very clearly labeled "Bethesda Game Studios." Any game that is not made by Bethesda Game Studios should be discussed elsewhere.

[nocturne stone]

Please note that we also have links to other servers to discuss games under the Bethesda umbrella which aren't strictly from Bethesda Game Studios in #official-sites
The one for ESO specifically is here: http://discord.gg/ElderScrollsOnline

[wraith aurora]

so according to the words of the Tribunal, is water wet? please provide textual evidence for your answer

[paper prism]

FINALLY! I beat Perthan Vorn in Battlespire!!! Not gonna lie, I only won because he got glitched under the stairs and couldn't chase me while I stood back and recovered XD

[forest surge]

ESO has been discussed various times here and mods have not really cared

Elder Scrolls Online, it’s in the name.

It is called Elder Scrolls General Chat is it not? Same with the Secondary Channel Elder Scrolls Lore.

Elder Scrolls Online despite not being directly made by Bethesda is Published under them.

[eager remnant]

No one can post on ZeniMax Online's forums without owning a copy of the game. Therefore, we often allow folks who do not yet own a copy of Elder Scrolls Online to ask questions about the game prior to purchasing a copy (i.e. "What is the game like?" or "Can I do this or that in Elder Scrolls Online?" ect) . But those who own a copy and come here wanting to discuss problems they are having with the game or make observations about the current state of the game without reference to products developed by Bethesda Game Studios are asked to post on Zenimax Onine's forum.

Also, it should be aded that we are not omniscient. Some posts slip through that should be redirected to the ESO forums or the Discord link provided by FrostPheonix. Failure to catch and reply to every instance should not be equated with acceptance.

[forest surge]

So we are not allowed to discuss ESO Lore Here?

[eager remnant]

As I said, if a topic references a product developed by Bethesda Game Studios it is acceptable here.

[forest surge]

Wow… says quite a lot really, we are passionate fans of this product and we can’t discuss a product associated with it because it wasn’t made by Bethesda Directly…

But I understand, your just doing your job

[eager remnant]

We are generally more lenient in the case of lore, since many lore issues are also relevant to the single player games. But this is rarely the case when it comes to issues involving, for instance, gameplay. ESO's gameplay is very different than the gameplay found in the single player games and so we are more likely to redirect topics such as gameplay to other social media. As with all other posts, these are decided on a case-by-case basic.

[forest surge]

Gameplay fine, I just want to discuss the lore

[feral viper]

Beyond wider worldbuilding and thematic points, I do think ESO is outside the general context of this channel. But in that regard, it's place is still largely the same as any other game. Mentioning things they do well or poorly in relation to comments, criticisms and recommendations for Bethesda's TES centred games.

Specific lore details and discussions there of are likewise better suited for the Lore channel, I think.

[nimble pond]

So it got me thinking. Is the hole in the TES6 trailer any indication that caves won't have loading screens and even if it is just High Rock, which looks smaller than most of the other provinces, the whole game map will actually be bigger with how they will scale the land?

[feral viper]

I don't think even Bethesda has an answer to that yet. We're looking at minimum of 5 years down the line, and it's impossible for even those in the industry to conclusively plan about technical elements like that, so far ahead.

We know Starfield will have separate cells and loading screens as normal. So they may test out seamless zones in a smaller scale, then decide whether or not they can upscale that in TES6, but they remains to be seen.

[nimble pond]

Starfield has loading screens? As far as I kno I just thought it was with the ship landing/taking off and it's more a cinematic now?

But didn't they already start doing areas without loading screens like back in Fallout 4..?

[gloomy anchor]

You guys should discuss this in the Starfield chat as this one is dedicated to elder scrolls.

[nimble pond]

It was just a very quick off-topic question relevant to the point in hand, wasn't planning to go deep into it

[gloomy anchor]

No problem! I just know people are mad for Starfield there and would probably know more about this 😄

[nimble pond]

👍

[feral viper]

I do think that TES could be vastly improved with the end of loading screens, though the issue stems more from AI and event triggers than processing. Local rendering systems aren't exactly new, and could given the size of the cells used in Bethesda games, only ever rendering the occupied and adjacent cells wouldn't be that difficult to do.

[deep wren]

Not sure if posting fanfiction here is allowed, but this is a crossover fanfiction I just made, El Dragon de Corto Maltese, an Elder Scrolls/DC Comics crossover, enjoy 😄 https://www.fanfiction.net/s/14223951/1/El-Dragon-de-Corto-Maltese

[feral viper]

Well... Dead Island 2 actually released, and we're living in the twilight zone now. From what I've seen it's even maybe kinda good... But since Dead Island had some of the best melee combat I've ever seen in a game not made by Arkane, I may have more combat input for TES by the end of the weekend...

[delicate ledge]

Wrong chat, but yeah, a streamer I like is playing through the campaign as the Irish girl, and she sounds almost exactly like Cait from F4. I had to Google the voice actress to make sure it wasn't the same one.

It looks really good and I don't even like zombie games.

[forest surge]

Dead Island 1 and Riptide I love so much, I waited 8 years for the sequel after it’s reveal at E3 when I was a Sophomore.

[feral viper]

There were a lot of elements that I wasn't keen on, but it's Analogue combat was one of the best melee combat systems I've ever used. And something I've wished TES would take inspiration of for the last decade

One thing that seems to be very well executed in this one is Limb Damage. Which is something that's been requested in TES for 20 years. Having a strong example of a first person mele focused game that successfully executes on that is a major boon for inspiration in that regard.

[serene ruin]

Would anyone want to do some quests with me? I’m on PlayStation

[delicate ledge]

And we know limb damage is possible in the engine. We've got 3 Fallout games with limb damage.

[brisk plank]

Imagine if spellcasting were tied to the relevant limbs, such as if your arms got broken you could no longer use right/left spells (that or they'd be greatly impaired). Then your only hope would be incantations and Powers.

[delicate ledge]

Or lopping limbs off Draugr/zombies

[pulsar root]

I like the latter, the former seems to have balance issues. (Like obviously a blade or axe could chop/cut a skeleton in half in a finishing animation)

[dim reef]

Limb damage sounds miserable. I already have mixed feelings on it in Fallout.

[eager remnant]

I have no strong opinion about limb damage. I mostly just ignore it in Fallout. But I loathe analogue combat. If Bethesda imposed that system on us in TES VI I wouldn't play the game.

[dim reef]

I'm sure it could be implemented as an option, but it does seem a little bit too niche to include in a game they'd obviously desire to be as all-encompassing as can be.

[eager remnant]

Internet research tells me that Dead Island (the game mentioned by Terical) offers two combat modes: analogue and digital. If Bethesda did something like that I would not object.

[delicate ledge]

Terical and I aren't talking about limb damage to your character, we're talking about limb damage to enemies.

In DI2, you can blow chunks off zombies. They can be limbless, skinless, faceless, even jawless.

I'd love to see that for undead enemies in Elder Scrolls.

Imagine blowing a lich's head off with a well placed explosive crossbow bolt, and the magic corpse is still floating toward you.

[forest surge]

Can someone explain what exactly is Analog and Digital Combat?

[eager remnant]

Analog could be described as a "swing-your-mouse-to-swing-the sword" approach to combat. Arena and Daggerfall used a version of this. Digital is what we see in the modern Bethesda games. Terical can probably better elaborate on the differences.

[delicate ledge]

Like Wii Motes. That sounds awful.

Nah, I just want enemies to feel the sting of my steel... Slash Ebony slash Daedric.

I'm not saying enemies exploding into giblets would vastly improve my experience, just that it would lead to some interesting combat.

But Elder Scrolls is different experience than Fallout, so I understand Bethesda not wanting to amp up the gore too much.

[feral viper]

It definitely sounds worse than it is.

[pulsar root]

Motion controls.... Blugh

[feral viper]

In Dead Island, when you enable Analogue Combat, you basically hold the attack button to ready the attack. You then swing in the way you move your mouse, but so long as you're holding the button you can't move your camera (though you can still move and strafe).

It's called Analogue, because it's originally intended to be used with the Analogue Sticks on controllers. But what it does is allow you to very precisely target parts of the enemy in combat, because you can control the angle and elevation of your strikes.

It's not significant movements either, so it's far less exaggerated than with most motion controls. A cm in either direction with the mouse is more than enough.

If course, I also adored the glyph system in Black and White, so I may just be crazy.

But in the context of combat, it allowed you to control the angle of attack with total reliability, rather than having to resort to weirdness like Animation Canceling or Attack Cycles like you do in most combat systems. At its base, it's just as good. Once you get used to it, it's vastly superior, allowing you to take off arms and knock out zombies legs with clean precision.

[feral viper]

Alas, no such inclusion in Dead Island 2. The combat is pretty solid though, and while not revolutionary by any means, I think sets a good standard for Melee in first person games. Definitely something Beth should keep an eye on in that regard.

[dim reef]

Something I'd like to see in TES VI is the inclusion of companions with more personality like in Fallout 4 (and presumably Starfield), but I'd also like for several hirelings more reminiscient of Skyrim's system to exist just for a wee bit of variety.

[delicate ledge]

That would be cool. There were a few followers like that, Mjoll, Eola, Erik, Illia, but they all just became basic followers after their quests. It would be cool to see them react to goings on and your choices. Imagine if Eola reacted to you communing with Peryite.

[slow garnet]

All followers become just basic followers after their quests because if they didn't, you'd be constantly dancing attendance on them and suddenly find out you're not the main character (kind of like you with Martin in "Oblivion").

And there's only so much memory so they can't dynamically invent ever-differing conversations and lines of dialogue, so eventually - like guards who have taken an arrow to the knee - are bound to repeat themselves, over and over, so often that you just want to yell "Just SHUT THE EFF UP" at them.

Happens in ESO too. Yes, Bastian, I'm looking at YOU.

[feral viper]

I mean... You ARE the main character in Oblivion. At best, Martian is your co-protagonist.

That said, there is an issue with making a character too integral, and relegating the game to a Party RPG

[slow garnet]

I kind of felt that was my problem with Serana in Dawnguard. The way she would keep on forcing herself into your "party" and you'd have to leave your other preferred follower behind. Instead of coming along WITH you and your follower.

[feral viper]

Indeed.

And Party games require very different design considerations

[pulsar root]

Eh, Serana is pristine. But yes more well designed companions would be nice.

[dim reef]

What do you mean by "pristine"?

[pulsar root]

As in good companion or lack of a better word/phrase

[dim reef]

That makes a lot more sense than "pristine." xD

[nimble pond]

ChatGPT Scrolls, lol

[nimble pond]

I have the sudden impulse to want to grow trees that produce gemstones 🤔

[delicate ledge]

I think Serana and Martin both serve integral parts of the story by being the person with all the personal connections and lore, so that you can continue on roleplaying and not have to worry about being invested in the story.

They're also two of the better non-deity characters in Elder Scrolls IMO. Serana is in my top three Skyrim characters and Martin is at least in my top 5 Oblivion characters.

[slow garnet]

I would like Serana more if she ran alongside the follower of your choice rather than insisting on replacing them, is kind of my point. Martin was kind of less annoying since Oblivion didn't have the whole "follower" mechanic to the same extent, he didn't force you NOT to take another companion because there was no other companion for him to replace.

So he was more of an Escort Mission - especially in the missions where he was a real escort mission, and he could actually die and you had to keep him alive (although that is an annoying mechanic of another kind - though not half as annoying as a complete civilian with no combat skills trying to race in and punch a horde of flying cliff racers, like some of the pilgrims you had to accompany in Morrowind sidequests...)

[pulsar root]

Martin was fine as a character then a companion IMO.

[dim reef]

Martin Septim was fine. 🙃

[delicate ledge]

Then he became a dragon. Hardly sporting.

[feral viper]

Martin was alright.

[nimble pond]

Terical's real hero is Tiber Septim 😉

Martin was his greatest as a rock.

[feral viper]

https://tenor.com/view/ron-swanson-nick-offerman-parks-and-recreation-close-eyes-mustache-gif-17478121

Team Adoring Fan. Best character in TES.

[dim reef]

I was going to get around to playing Legends again today and noticed it's no longer compatible with the current version of Android. 😔

[serene mountain]

Guys

Serious question to my new game of skyrim

Bosmer or Orsimer ?

[eager remnant]

Which one appeals to you more?

[serene mountain]

I dunno i'm in the dilemma since 2 days

I already played with both in old games

[limpid pasture]

if 2 people are wearing kinras can they proc the effect at he same time?

[eager remnant]

Hi, zigz! This is a Discord for the single-player Elder Scrolls games developed by Bethesda Game Studios. Feel free to ask questions about ZeniMax Online Studio's Elder Scrolls Online on their Discord (which you can find by clicking on #official-sites ) or on ZeniMax Online Studio's forums, which you can find here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en

[paper prism]

I've seen you all have to post this disclaimer so many times... do mods have this on quick copy clipboard? 😆

[eager remnant]

I store mine in a notepad document on my desktop (along with one explaining why there's no Fallout: New Vegas chat on this Discord). 🙂

[feral viper]

Is it because Insert frothing rant here?

More seriously, having put some time into Dead Island II, I regret to announce that it's combat is just ok. It's not really special in any way, and is really just competent. Nothing to innovate on the format of First Person Melee, and thus nothing to really add to the topic.

[forest surge]

Game is to fun even if the Combat isn’t the most innovative thing ever.

[dim reef]

tes6 when

[feral viper]

When the stars align, and dread Cthulhu stirs once more from his fitful, deathless slumber.

And probably never if you're a PS player.

More seriously, Starfield is slated for Q4 of this year. Expect a full year of support, and then 3-4 years before the next big release from BGS.

So you're looking, based on their 20 year track record, of 2027 at the earliest.

[dim reef]

Will the best graphics card atm have 144fps maxed out for tes6 or will I have to buy a new one in 2027

[true hull]

New mid range card > old high end card

Applicable forever ^

[feral viper]

Bethesda is generally pretty good at working on mid range systems. So you will likely be able to at least run it on low with a decent PC today. But we ultimately won't know until we are much much closer to an actual game.

[thick patrol]

Is lichdom likely to be included in TES:6? If not then that's a bit naf.

[scenic spade]

I just know I'll be greatly disappointed by the answer but...

Any news on Elder Scrolls 6 yet?

I just have to ask. I've been out of the Elder Scrolls universe for months now.

[feral viper]

We barely got werewolves in Skyrim. So probably not.

[feral viper]

Nothing.

[thick patrol]

Well I'm hoping bethesda have developed some skills since then.

Todd himself said that with the longevity of skyrim they are contemplating the concept of games lasting along the lines of around 20 years.. (I'm paraphrasing).

So with that said, they need to add plenty of stuff to do. I'm talking lichdom, undead armies and conquering the whole map..

Visiting daedric realms and stuff like that.

But lichdom is an awesome concept which they haven't capitalised on.

Which is a shame.

[feral viper]

It's not skill, it's simply resources and time.

Though especially given Bethesda's aversion to mature subject matter, I'd honestly rather they not.

Becoming a Lich isn't something you should be able to do easily. It should be morally corrupt to its core.

[thick patrol]

Yes but the choice should be there if you wanna be evil. Its only a game and honestly I'm kinda bored of the whole hero thing. It's cool if you wanna do it but I like being able to do either.

In dawnguard although you're a vamp lord you still end up saving tamriel soooo... yanno. Not great.

You can't side with Harkon and conquer skyrim.. You can't side with Miraak and enslave and take control over solstheim etc... I know that sort of stuff would've been tricky to do back in 2011 but with modern technology it would be nice to be able to have the choice to either save the world or destroy it...

The freedom of choice is what makes game like Fallout New Vegas good. Skyrim is awesome but the choice to be good or evil would've been nice.

After all you can be a cannibal, a werewolf, a vampire lord and the champion of all daedric princes 🤴 yet you save tamriel...

[spare anchor]

This statement confuses me

[thick patrol]

Yeah it confused me a bit, I wasn't too sure what he meant either.

Bethesda already have all the Lore written right? So all they need to do is put it in the next game.

Starfield will be a good test to see the state of Bethesda but I'm pretty confident that they'll do a good job on TES:6. They kinda have to anyway since it's their biggest title but yeah all they need to do is expand on mechanics from TES:5 and have a look at some of the mods people have been making..

Because mods like Arcanum, Triumvirate, ordinator, undeath, sacrosanct aswell as all the UI stuff are amazing. The modders are doing an awesome job.

It would be a really smart idea to take SOME inspiration from the modding community. Obvs not the NSFW stuff coz that's just rubbish but armours (SFW ones), weapons, spells, quests etc would be cool.

Another cool thing would be if Bethesda added pocket sized areas of different regions (cyrodiil, Summerset, valenwood etc aswell as daedric realms and different planes and dimensions). Would be very cool.

They have so much cool lore though looking at all the trials and dungeons from ESO aswell as the classes (necro, warden, templar etc).

Another thing that would be cool is adding culture into the map. Skyrim borders nearly all the regions on tamriel yet you see hardly any culture from any of those regions. I know there were limitations at the time so I'm not having a go, but it would be nice to see lots of different armour and weapon types aswell as foods etc for all the different imported cultures.

[feral viper]

Difficult to get into given the forum rules... But let's just say we don't see 'Harvest Adam from Little Sister' options in Bethesda games, or things like the restaurant scene from The Last Of Us.

Most we get is clowns like the Dark Brotherhood, or outdated takes on mental illness like with Sheogorath.

[feral viper]

I am also of the unpopular opinion that alternate ending choice narratives inherently make stories worse, and shouldn't be persued

[thick patrol]

You're entitled to your opinion bud and I think you're correct too, and the trick to that is not being the main character. If it's in the oblivion style and you aren't the main guy then you can do what you want but skyrims problem is that you are the good guy so being evil is impossible given the story plan. But for the next game if we were not the main character I think it would give us some space to be able to do other things ya get me.

[thick patrol]

And I also agree. But games have come a long way in the last 10 years and when skyrim came out games weren't very brutal, sure you had some that were more brutal than others like Resident evil and doom etc but games have gotten more brutal in the last few years for sure. Just look at dead island 2, that would probably have not been made 10 years ago because of its brutality.

I think it's safe to say Bethesda did the best with the hardware that was available. By modern standards things seem like they're lacking and under developed but since they're now on an updated engine and we have access to far superior hardware I reckon they could make a really good go of it on TES:6 😁

[ripe abyss]

I’m very curious if we will learn anything about next elder scrolls game? I doubt it will be on switch it might? But I fully expect it to come to Pc, PS5 and Xbox

[feral viper]

Not the sort of maturity I'm talking about. Blood and guts are about as family friendly as 'Mature' content gets (there's a whole PHD in studying THAT in an of its self).

But like, Skyrim and FO4 utterly fail to depict the hardships and darkness of war, poverty and paranoia in anything approaching a mature way, let alone nuanced and thought provoking. Most topics which could be emotionally engaging and actually encourage any sort of moral contextualisation are treated as footnotes or just avoided entirely.

You can't actually explore idea of Good and Evil when the extent of 'Evil' you're willing to explore is killing things.

Especially when that is, it's self, the main gameplay loop anyway.

[feral viper]

PS5 becomes less and less likely.

[thick patrol]

Ahh I see what you're saying now. Well who knows. Like I said starfield will be a good gauge to see what state bethesda is in but I guess only time will tell.

[feral viper]

I fully expect Starfield to be good, but I'm not expecting any sort of exploration of mature topics.

And unfortunately, if you're going to explore Liches, you NEED that sort of maturity.

Rather than just sidestepping the whole thing like with Harkon, Valeria and Serana's transformations.

[ripe abyss]

Why…? They would loose so much money. I mean they have to make the next fall out for ps5 and friends

[feral viper]

The complexities of console licensing aren't really a topic for here, but Bethesda is now owned by Microsoft

[ripe abyss]

Don’t remind me

[ripe abyss]

I would just hope they do and avoid upsetting half of the community

[feral viper]

Half is an exaggeration. Maybe a third.

Still, while I don't expect it to be on PlayStation, I would like it to be. Even though I don't have a PS, or any interest in getting one, I don't like exclusivity as a concept

[bitter mirage]

Haven't they explicitly confirmed that BGS is going Xbox exclusive and that TES is likely included?

Well, Xbox/pc

[pulsar root]

So it seems like.

[livid ingot]

I think mods told us not to speculate on this before

[livid ingot]

So, no confirmation (yet).

[pulsar root]

To be fair... I had forgotten, Mistress of Cats. 🐱

[bitter mirage]

Not to speculate on things devs have said in official places...?

So we're allowed to ask questions, but not point to the things which officially answer those questions?

[gloomy anchor]

You just have to be careful not to spread miss information. If something has not been officially confirmed, Then it is not set in stone yet.

[bitter mirage]

sure, but i wasn't talking about speculation, i was asking about verified statements from people who we know are in the right positions to have accurate information about this i agree that we have to be careful not to spread misinformation, which is exactly why i was bringing up those sorts of sources instead of giving baseless conjecture, y'know?

some brief research to double check now that i've gotten on my computer seems to show that they haven't confirmed TES6 itself is Xbox exclusive, but that Redfall and Starfield are, and that a third mystery game will also launch Xbox exclusive. i'm seeing a lot of speculation that the third game is TES6, which is where i can understand nipping this convo in the bud, although i'd like to add that TES6 isn't going to be coming out until years after Starfield anyways... suggesting it's TES6 does, admittedly, seem baseless

Todd also talked some about how exclusivity could be a great benefit to Bethesda because it allows them to have more streamlined development on fewer platforms which they're given more knowledge about, which is pretty cool. i hope that pans out

[feral viper]

It also makes sense, given that Xbox was their lifeline in the early 2000s, and makes up their single largest market based on what sales we are privy to.

It's often overlooked just how crucial Morrowind's Xbox launch was to the survival of the franchise, and BGS as a whole. Even Todd Howard has admitted as such.

That said, PC tends to be where their longevity is, even with mods finally making it to consoles... But it's also where games are the most unstable

It'll be a BGS game though. So anyone who is expecting a polished, bug free launch is setting themselves up for disappointment, and it will only be their own fault

[slow garnet]

thing is, the only reason Skyrim has this level of longevity is because there hasn't been an Elder Scrolls 6. Otherwise people would be playing that...

Personally I'm taking bets on which comes out first:

• The Elder Scrolls 6
• George R. R. Martin completes The Winds Of Winter
• Patrick Rothfuss completes The Doors Of Stone
• Somebody invents a way to make necromancy work in real life, and resurrects Franz Schubert to finish the Unfinished Symphony

[livid ingot]

People still play Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Oblivion.

[pulsar root]

Soon

[regal kite]

need 2 more for selenes web trying to do pledge with scroll, need one dps and one healer

[teal ravine]

If Elder Scrolls 6 is set in Hammerfell do you think there will be a ship sailing feature?

[feral viper]

We can hope.

Unfortunately, sailing is very different than flying, so I doubt the ship feature in Starfield will have any practical value in that regard.

[teal ravine]

That’s true but to say they can’t do it is wrong. They most certainly can.

And we’ve seen other game companies attempt and succeed in this like the Assassins Creed series.

⛵
There used to not be flying. Now they did it. So it could be same story for sailing.

I think Hammerfell would be the literal best province for sailing as it has the most pirates of any. 🏴‍☠️

[eager remnant]

I don't think anyone is saying they can't do it. If they feel it is worth the time and resources and makes sense for the story, characters and setting I'm sure they will.

Personally I think the literal best province for sailing would be Summerset Isles, as it is surrounded on all sides by water.

[teal ravine]

I didn’t say anyone said that. But the best province for sailing would be summer set due to it being an island.

But Hammerfell having the most well known pirates and... well everyone loves pirates. While it wouldn’t be designed as well as summerset it would be cooler. Pirates are popular af homie

Imagine if sailing would become regular feature for more coastal provinces in future TES games. But more of a major feature for some entries than others in the future.

[feral viper]

Unfortunately, Tamriel's geography isn't really super well suited to sailing. It's mostly just a big blob of a landmass, so all you'd ever really be doing is following the coastline.

The lack of Islands and archipelagos would really mute any sailing features.

[feral viper]

Both Hammerfell and Summerset have some potential for sailing due to their seafaring cultures, but by and large... It's pretty minimal, unless they also include Yokuda and Pyandonea

[ripe abyss]

I am super curious how far into the future the next elder scrolls will be I will be being dragon born

[feral viper]

I think it unlikely that it will be more than a few years after. A decade, tops.

Long enough that the specific events in Skyrim aren't super relevant. Not so long that the wider geopolitical climate changes too much.

[empty wave]

Welp, 9pm Pacific, 3 hours before megaserver maintenance and i can't get on to save my life 😦

[eager remnant]

This is a Discord for the single-player Elder Scrolls games developed by Bethesda Game Studios. Feel free to ask questions about Elder Scrolls Online on ZeniMax Online Studio's Discord (which you can find by clicking on #official-sites ) or on ZeniMax Online Studio's forums, which you can find here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/

[thick patrol]

So am I right in guessing that TES:6 has probably been in the works since Fallout 76? Is that a fairly accurate guess?

[livid ingot]

No. At least not in the full-time development sense.
Lots of games exist in the planning stages for some time however before the studio begins full production on it (this is called pre-production).
The truth is that Bethesda Game Studios (BGS) has been working on a new IP which releases this year called Starfield. Once Starfield goes live, production will likely ramp up on TES 6. I imagine by now they've already started to shift some workers over to TES 6 that aren't needed in the final stages of Starfield's development.

It typically takes about 4ish years for BGS to complete a game. This is speculation but you could expect the game to appear in about that time, around the end of 2027. Maybe later, maybe sooner.

[feral viper]

Bethesda typically starts concept work for their next game in a series, as soon as they are done with the current one. So in that regard, they probably have a good deal of concept work for TES6 already done.

They don't seem to actually start development in earnest until they are done with their current project, however. So true development in TES 6 will probably start after Starfield releases.

[feral viper]

Ok, so... Let's try this again as more of a point rather than a topic starter.

Stealth. It's got problems. Frequently, you become detected through solid walls at low levels, and can literally sneak up and Three Stooges enimies at higher levels.

It's one of those systems that I think, when you take it apart, is too complicated to be functional. In general, a system should only ever be as complex as absolutely necessary to achieve a desired result.

Currently, the basic formula works as follows:

Detection Value = fSneakBaseValue + (Sound factor * Distance attenuation ) + (Visual factor * Distance attenuation) + (Noticer skill factor * Distance attenuation) + (Noticer skill factor - Sneaker skill factor).

Instead, just make it a range visibility formula. If the detector can see the sneaker, they are detected. End of story. Remove sound from it entirely. Instead it becomes:

Detection = Subject distance*Illumination - Detection Range. If the result is 1 or more, you are spotted.

So, if you are 45m away, in dim light (.5 modifier) and the sentry as a detection range of 60m, it would look like:

45(0.5) - 60 = -37.5 : 1

Therefore, you wouldn't be seen.

Sound, then, doesn't factor into detection at all, but rather acts as a trigger behaviour for Searching, increasing the chance you will be discovered.

Sound it's self can be more in depth of course, as sound works very differently to visual identification, but unless an entity navigates by echolocation, sound is not going to be a reliable enough detection mechanism to initiate 'Combat'

[scenic spade]

In your opinion, if we have a character who is a proud orc and aims to be the physically strongest sentient person in all of Tamriel during the Skyrim era and setting, and maybe even achieves the goal, would he embrace the thu'um or would consider it an unfair advantage that he would kind of avoid most of the times and only call on it when it is truly needed?

Right now, I'm leaning towards having him embrace the thu'um, but what do you all think?

[eager remnant]

I don't think in terms of race when I roleplay, to be honest, I think in terms of individuals. I focus on the specifics of that particular character's background and personality, on the culture they grew up in, on whether they view that culture and upbringing positively or negatively, on the events that character has experienced before the start of the game and how they may have shaped that character's outlook on life. These factors are more important to me than "race."

[livid ingot]

Yeah, I agree with Pseron. Whether or not your character embraces the Thu'um is really down to their personal character and personal history. We've met plenty of different Orcs throughout the series who don't abide by some super strict code of fair play.

I'd also add that seeking to be the physically strongest person in Tamriel and embracing the Thu'um aren't mutually exclusive. Consider: when your Orc is fighting for his life or the lives and livelyhood of others, using the Thu'um is completely reasonable. But, if he's engaged in a sporting contest of strength with a friend or rival, to truly test his might, he would probably abstain from using the Thu'um or any other weapon. He doesn't want to seriously hurt his sparring mate, nor does he want to be seen as cheating.

[dim reef]

How come there is no elven heavy armor?

[feral viper]

There is. Both Elven and Glass are full plate armours, made in the Altmeri style, and would constitute Heavy in any reasonable system.

As far as Skyrim goes... Well, they simply were classed as Light Armour in its system because of the bias of Elf = Light/Nimble.

[dim reef]

Really? Because every time I wear it, it is considered as a light armor.

[eager remnant]

I believe he's saying that in the real world it would be considered heavy armor, not that it is heavy armor in the game.

[feral viper]

Indeed.

[livid ingot]

Ebony is also an elven armor, technically

[dim reef]

I was wondering that as well, but I don’t know if it was true or not

[feral viper]

True, in Skyrim it's done in a Dunmeri style. Which would make it Elven.

Isn't Falmer shell armour also Heavy?

[teal ravine]

Dwarven armor is also elven.

Same with Orcish as well. And not by “technicality”.

Mer = elf. Orcs and Dwarves are elves.

[livid ingot]

You're right. I just said "technically" because Ebony is a material armor. The one in Skyrim is of elven design (acc. to the artbook), but that isn't always necessarily the case.

I should have just said "specifically"

[feral viper]

Some Orcs may disagree with that.

[wide garnet]

I was going to say that as well.

[feral viper]

Whether or not they are right, is still somewhat unclear.

[wide garnet]

The truth is always more complicated than some people realize.

[feral viper]

That is true in pretty much everything, yeah.

[livid ingot]

There's that quest for Septimus Signus where you have to collect elven souls and the Orsimer are included.

[wide garnet]

I thought it was blood, not souls?

[livid ingot]

You're right, I misremembered.

I think in Oblivion you had to collect souls for Hermaeus Mora's quest

[wide garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/oops-whoopsies-adam-de-vine-gif-7976025

[feral viper]

One soul for every one of the main races, yes.

[dim reef]

From what I remember in Skyrim when you purchase a creation club DLC there is light armor versions of those

[delicate ledge]

I think programmers need to be given time to goof around in games more.

Like remember how Morrowind had Eltonbrand? I may not be a fan of Morrowind, but even I can appreciate a funny reference like that.

[nimble pond]

The drowned troll under the bridge in oblivion

[livid ingot]

Both Morrowind and Oblivion were more light-hearted and tongue-in-cheek than Skyrim

Skyrim has its jokes naturally, but it has a more overall austere tone

[slow garnet]

Somebody stole their sweetroll.

[hidden herald]

I used to an adventurer like you, then I guard died before they could finish the sentence

[feral viper]

I think it's hit or miss. Oblivion was almost entirely miss, for me.

More of Skyrim's attempts as humour landed than Oblivion's. Moreso because they didn't undermine the actual world or seem ludicrously out of place.

[forest surge]

I wish I can say I enjoy Skyrim over Oblivion since that would be a lie, but as long as it ain’t Morrowind.

[feral viper]

I am very much on the opposite side. There is very little positive I have to say about Oblivion, though I love Morrowind and can find a sizable silver lining in Skyrim.

[forest surge]

Morrowind is just way to mechanically outdated for me to really care about beyond what it’s story and such were, but that is all it will be to me, Oblivion was my first Elder Scrolls and despite the issues I learned of when it came to the game that still didn’t stop me from enjoying it because in all Honesty, Without sounding biased because it was my first, it was the one game that really appealed to me way more as a game.

Does Morrowind and Skyrim do certain things better than Oblivion? Sure, but I’m not gonna retread old ground on what did and didn’t work because at the end of the day Oblivion is my favorite mainline game of the series.

I’ve just been in many fanbases to learn not to care to much about peoples problems personally when I enjoyed it and that’s what matters to me as a person.

From Sonic, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Star Wars, you just learn to just avoid those who have a distinct hatred for something you may like if they are very rude about it.

[feral viper]

Morrowind has definitely not aged well, mechanically. That much I'll grant.

For my part, Daggerfall was my first, though Morrowind is my favourite.

Though, it was a rough introduction

[eager remnant]

I am one of the few players left on planet earth who think that Morrowind's gameplay mechanics are still the finest in the series. I cherish its character-skill-based gameplay (as opposed to the player-skill-based focus of the later games which borrow too heavily from first-person shooters for my taste).

[hidden herald]

I'd have it be a mix between player-skill-based and character-skill-based. If we have enough character-skill investment we can compensate for any lapse in player-skill, like not needing to aim.

[bright siren]

As someone who started with Skyrim, Morrowind's gameplay is hard to adjust to but I've been surprised with how much I've enjoyed my first play through of the game so far.

[forest surge]

I like them all for different reasons but we have yet to get a game that has the best of all the previous games

ESO has brought back the bigger emphasis on worldbuilding that hasn’t been as prevalent since Morrowind but the gameplay is still ultimately centered on being a Multiplayer game and differs from the mainline games as a result.

Skyrim is the best gameplay atm for the series but now we have to wonder if Elder Scrolls VI Gameplay will get any measure of Improvement.

Elder Scrolls VI has a lot of expectations imo because we are no longer on the PS3 Era where a game like Skyrim would pretty much be a great game to many at the time

At this point Elder Scrolls VI really needs to push the series further than it has previously.

Graphically from what I’ve seen of Starfield that’s already gonna look good when we eventually get it, but looking good is just part of it of course

[hidden herald]

This is just speculation, but I think that TESVI might be a launch title for the next console generation.

[slow garnet]

at the moment, TES VI needs to exist. I mean, why is it taking so long? How long has Skyrim existed? How long did it take them to develop previous titles in the series, and why does each new title take so much longer than the last one? Honestly, it's getting as bad as George R. R. Martin.

[livid ingot]

BGS wanted to try out new things. After Fallout they experimented with a multi-player game (Fallout 76) and then with a brand new IP (Starfield).
So that's why it's taken so long. Instead of developing TES VI after Fallout IV, like they might have been expected to do, they took a break from the series

Undoubtedly they were hoping TES Online and other spinoffs (not developed by them) would help tide people over.

[feral viper]

I think, on the whole of it, Morrowind managed to maximise it's mechanics in a way Oblivion and Skyrim didn't. As I've gotten older, I've become more and more disenfranchised with 'Traditional RPGs', but of that subgenre Morrowind manages to do something very few did. And I think that's fantastic.

That said, it's still clunky, stiff, and leans quite hard on superficial and sometimes nonsensical differentiations to drive that RPG style.

Skyrim, almost in total opposition, almost totally failed to really maximise it's potential mechanically. With nothing more than better execution, it could serve as a truely benchmark RPG, but it's generally poor balance and wealth of mostly irrelevant Perks heavily mute it's end result.

Still, I think Skyrim's system is far better poised to push into 'Revolutionary' territory than more traditional formats, like Morrowind's.

[nimble pond]

I mean I get it, they been trying a lot of new things in the meantime. I just thought they had planned it out better with the pause in TES besides just making more editions of Skyrim to suffice and thinking TES: Blades, Legends, & ESO would help (the last two not actually developed by BGS)..And political factors can be another problem even in the tech industry, which unfortunately you can't always plan for.
We'll see how things workout for Starfield first, when it finally does launch, from the way Xbox has been clinging itself to it.

[nimble pond]

That'd be rough, it's not impossible, but it could happen. Delays are bad enough across multiple industries and unless things get better, I could see delays taking longer and longer in the future. Not to mention a TESVI next-gen release pushes Fallout V even further away for the Fallout fans.

[forest surge]

Yeah ESO isn’t developed by Bethesda but they are consulted on when it comes to the game Universe, for one they are off limits to certain things like Akavir.

[nimble pond]

I'm really hoping in the future they're not planning on putting more time and resources into say.. an online starfield game, IF it's going to push back the next chapters of TES and Fallout even longer.. They did say TESVI was coming after Starfield, but I don't recall if they ever said anything about Fallout V following directly after TESVI or if they might pull some resources to work on an online Starfield game at the same time as either of those titles. Really would rather they just put that off to another studio and stick to their single-player assets IF throwing in online games or adding in online functionality to single-player games is going to further delay the dev cycle between each franchise chapter. Say you knock off F76 (which I actually did like better over ESO even though I typically prefer the TES franchise over the Fallout one, prob bc BGS developed 76, but not ESO) and they had let someone else develop it.. we prob could have had Starfield out awhile ago.. But at the time things prob looked better and thought they could fit it all in quicker.

[forest surge]

ESO doesn’t halt development of future titles, also I prefer ESO over 76, also 76 is done by Bethesda Austin, Bethesda is consulted on ESO and Bethesda Austin is part of the bigger Bethesda Brand but it by no means prevents resources.

Personally I’m not against ESO not being made by Bethesda directly as in the end they were still part of it’s development on the worldbuilding aspect.

The biggest misconception many make it believing ESO and 76 delay the next installments when in reality they don’t, and are done by there own teams while the other teams are working on the other games.

And yes it’s been confirmed after Starfield will come Elder Scrolls VI and Then Fallout 5 after that. Also I don’t believe a Multiplayer Starfield is gonna happen to soon.

[nimble pond]

That's another thing you just reminded me of actually. Would releasing say.. two TES titles, like say ESO by Zeni and then TESVI by BGS, relatively around the same time. Would that really be the best move or would you say it'd be wiser to push one of them back until a later time? I mean at least they gave F4 a good chunk of time before F76.
As for Starfield online, I'm just looking at the pattern, ESO.. F76.. but who knows..
Not to mention the type of games F76 and ESO are not just online and needing maintenance/support teams longer than the usual single-player game, but also MMOs with several expansions, so it'd probably be in best interest to give those games some time to exhaust profits before moving onto the next chapter in the franchise itself.

But so you think BGS could have also developed ESO without it taking more time and resources from working on and releasing their other games and not have pushed Starfield to release even further back than as it currently stands now, after well technically three release dates "officially stated" thus far? Cause I belive Zeni developed ESO, not BGS.

[forest surge]

The thing is ESO happened as a 20th Anniversary Game for the series that has done a lot with it’s prequel setting since it’s release, 76 came out 21 Years after Fallout 1 which is also a prequel game. Safe to say Starfield won’t be getting an Online game to soon until it’s clear the Starfield Brand can have it’s own big enough fanbase to want to possibly play an Online Prequel Game.

Yes Zenimax Made ESO, but they consulted Bethesda when building it and still do when it comes to dlc’s

[nimble pond]

If they are seeing financial success with their online counterparts, I highly doubt they are gonna wait 20 years to do the same with starfield. Fallout and TES just happened to be some of their earliest work. They've also been doing online mobile games as well, clearly there is interest in online gaming for them.

[forest surge]

There is but Starfield will have to prove popular to warrant it, and even then compared to it’s two siblings it may not have the same Star Power to carry an Online Prequel

[nimble pond]

Yes, it will have to be a successful franchise before the decision is made. Clearly they want it to be successful and have put a lot of time and work into making it happen.

[forest surge]

When Elder Scrolls and Fallout got it they had already sold Millions and been around so long to build up a large fanbase so that was the best time to give it a shot, Starfield is new to the field and I think in all honesty MMO’s that are not based off of a popular Singleplayer Franchise is possibly doomed to fail.

And Starfield is to new to even try that so soon

[nimble pond]

You also have to think of the times those games were made and the technology. If Starfield kicks off great, I doubt they will put off making an online game for it or having another studio dev it. You also have to realize Bethesda itself is more well-known now and has built up quite the fan base than in earlier times. So if they're profiting off well with their online material and Starfield sells well, then yeah, I can see some sort of Starfield Online coming sooner rather than later. Really can't say I'd know if this is even possible to do, but if so, maybe even some sort of online feature thru a later DLC for the game. Probably something on Mobile too.. if Starfield itself sells well.

[forest surge]

No, it would have to be it’s own separate Online Game

They have never done a Singeplayer game with simple Online Co-op

[nimble pond]

Yeah and back then I never thought there would be a TES or Fallout MMORPG, yet here we are..

[forest surge]

76 isn’t an MMO by any means

It’s more akin to the size of a GTA Online Server, 24 Players in this case per server.

[eager remnant]

Battlespire featured Co-op, Deathmatch and Team vs. Team online modes in addition to the single-player game.

[forest surge]

Did it now? I stand corrected then.

But aside from that it was by no means a Mainline Entry

Which is ultimately something they have yet to do for a mainline game.

[nimble pond]

Classify it's online mechanics how you want, points still the same.

[forest surge]

My issue is people calling 76 an MMO, which it’s just not and I wish people would get already.

[warm forge]

Anyone know where to ask this sorry if if I'm not supposed to here (this is for eso) but every time I hit my play button the game won't load up and now with every thing I've done that I seen people do online the app does not even show up on task manager

[forest surge]

Sorry, I wish we could help here but this discord is primarily for the Singleplayer Games in regards to how to deal with those particular issues.

[warm forge]

@forest surge could you recommend a discord thay can ???

[nimble pond]

Won't let me post the link, I'll dm it to you

[thick patrol]

Here's a question for you all...

Given the supposed fact that there's around 1000 planets in starfield which is going to be a huge thing, is it possible for bethesda to make all of tamriel in 1 game?

They've sort of already been doing this with ESO, but I was just wondering. I know the game would take up a lot of space but that's irrelevant. If bethesda can make 1000 planets then wouldn't logic dictate that they could make the whole of tamriel in the next elderscrolls? And find a clever way to perhaps separate the provinces if necessary?

[silk apex]

do you want the game to be 99% radiant quests and randomly generated

[feral viper]

Possible, probably.

A good idea? Absolutely not.

[thick patrol]

Hmm, you may be underestimating them.

If they can make 1000 planets I think the next elderscrolls could be very impressive.

[feral viper]

Considering Oblivion and Skyrim... No, I don't think I am

[thick patrol]

A lot has changed in the last 10 + years.

[feral viper]

It's a writing issue, not a technical one. They have shown that they struggle to actually develop a single culture at a time.

[thick patrol]

And I said you may be underestimating them.

[feral viper]

Asking them to write 9 different cultures in anything but the most superficial way is entirely unreasonable

[silk apex]

all of tamriel would just be quantity > quality

and it’d just be empty

[feral viper]

The cultures in Oblivion and Skyrim are already incredibly superficial.

[thick patrol]

They're 10 year old games.

Which had limitations.

[feral viper]

And Morrowind is a 20 year old game, and heads and shoulders above both, combined

[thick patrol]

Yeah and it was low quality.

[feral viper]

It's not a technical problem. It's a writing one. And Bethesda has shown no ability to replicate the writing qualify of Morrowinds world

[thick patrol]

That is an example of technical limitations. Either quality or quantity.

Games up until the last 7 or so years have been hamstrung due to hardware limitations. They've either (been big and well written but very low quality), or (smaller, better looking now so well written).

We haven't been able to have both. But with enough time, man power and funding, which they can have all that they need especially since they're owned by Microsoft, they could create something really good.

Starfield will be interesting. It'll be interesting to see what state the company is in for sure.

[feral viper]

1000 monkeys will not write Shakespeare, no matter how long you give them

Bethesda simply has not shown the writing ability to replicate the height of Morrowind. And I'd rather they slog through one province at a time, rather than slap a superficial coat of paint over everyone at once.

The sheer amount of writing work it would take to do any amount of justice to all of Tamriel is significant on the face of it.

Far more, given the quality issues already facing BGS' games over the last 20 years

And that's without even getting into the narrative side of things, and the difficulty creating a mythic and cultural backdrop for the story stretching across all of Tamriel

Unless they just want to cram the Dragonborn into the triangle hole this time.

Again, COULD it be done? Absolutely.

[thick patrol]

You are aware that they have all their lore written down right?

[feral viper]

yes. And it hasn't been great

Oblivion was entirely devoid of identity or a culture, and Skyrim was a Viking-Parody

Until Bethesda shows the quality of Morrowind again, they shouldn't even think about two provinces at once. Let alone the whole continent.

Even then, there's the narrative issue at hand. Linking a story across 9 different wildly distinct cultures with a mythic throughline would be a stretch at the best of times.

Morrowind sets a quality threshold to aim for. We know it's doable, because Bethesda has done it before. Therefore, expecting anything above that shouldn't even be on the table, until they manage to replicate that threshold.

Effectively doing 9 Morrowinds at once simply is not a reasonable expectation, or even a reasonable dream.

And 1 Morrowind is (IMO) vastly superior to 1000 Oblivion's.

[thick patrol]

Like I said, starfield will be a good indicator of where they stand as a company. If it flops then it is what it is. My original point was that if they are able to make 1000 planets, then hard ware is not an issue anymore.

Yes writing will be a big obstacle. But they've got a ton of lore written down for each culture. It just needs expanding upon and a lot of work.

[feral viper]

I would put money on the majority of those 1000 planets being largely barren

[thick patrol]

You're not listening to what I'm saying.

1000 planets means hardware is not an issue.

[feral viper]

Great for building bases on. Not really story or worldbuilding relevant

Hardware has never been the issue

[thick patrol]

They can fix that by building it a certain way.

[feral viper]

They DID all of Tamriel already.

Arena has the whole of Tamriel. It's doable, it just means making concessions in some areas.

[thick patrol]

Eso has most of tamriel too.

[feral viper]

If they wanted to use regional cells, like they have for the last 20 years, there was no reason they couldn't do one province in each cell

[thick patrol]

Potentially yeah.

[feral viper]

Oblivion extensively used Procedural Generation in its world space too. So, again, the hardware hasn't been an issue.

If Bethesda wanted to build a robust enough procedural generation system to populate the world in a meaningful way, they could functionally make it infinite.

But to date, no one in the industry has built that sort of system.

Not presently.

[spare anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/legendary-cat-wildcat-cat-stare-zoo-cat-zoo-gif-24646466

[feral viper]

Yokuda is shown in the Redguard map, but that's the closest we've gotten

We don't even know what the other continents look like

[spare anchor]

Let's keep it civil and follow the #rules please

[feral viper]

Most of it. It's a small chain of islands now

The only data we have is from the late 3rd Era census of Daggerfall, putting the cities population at 110,000

Yeah

Daggerfall, in Highrock

[forest surge]

It’s called Arena

[forest surge]

And yet it’s so old it’s not really acknowledged except to those who can put up with it’s age

It’s acknowledged based on it’s lore alone, not really on being a playable game.

I mean what else do you want me to say? Morrowind is a great game over the other two because it did lore in a way the ones going forward did not?

[feral viper]

And my comments had nothing to do with its playability, but rather it's writing and worldbuilding.

Yuup. 22 years.

Morrowind is old enough to drink in America.

[forest surge]

Okay and that’s good and all, but Writing and Worldbuilding means nothing when you can’t attract many people with the gameplay side.

I just do not care for this measuring stick of “It needs to be as good as Morrowind’s Worldbuilding and lore.”

Like that’s good that Lore and Worldbuilding are so important to you, but it’s always about “Morrowind.”

[feral viper]

Because it serves as a point of reference. If they had done anything interesting since then, I'd cite it.

There's a reason I typically cite Skyrim for it's mechanical value

Because, quite simply, Skyrim is the best game mechanically. Even if it still has its problems.

Absolutely. Morrowind is not without its problems

Mechanically, Morrowind is very dated. And was rather dated even when it came out.

Graphically it was pretty impressive for 2001, though nothing from 20 years ago really still looks good today.

It's more than that. I can accept the graphics, as it was 2006 and things tended to be weird, graphically.

[forest surge]

“It wasn’t On Morrowind’s Level of Worldbuilding.”

[feral viper]

Human character models in general in the late 2000s fit into a weird uncanny Valley for most games.

That wasa mechanical thing.

[forest surge]

I’d rather teleport lol

[feral viper]

And something I actually support inclusion. I hate when fast travel is disabled, and actively refuse to play Hardcore mode in Fallout 4 and Skyirm because of that.

[forest surge]

I don’t get what that has to do with Worldbuilding, like people say Oblivion doesn’t have good worldbuilding but as my first it’s how I learned of the world

Which is still an important factor, I learned of everything that I could know regarding the series in general

I still explored though

[feral viper]

And that's fine. I simply think that there is nothing that Oblivion does better than either Skyrim or Morrowind as such, it's a non-topic for me.

[forest surge]

I learned of the world which is still an important thing.

[feral viper]

If I'm going to talk about strengths and weaknesses, set goals and expectations, and look at how to improve, Oblivion doesn't offer anything in my mind.

If you like Oblivion, that's fine. I can't take that away from you.

[forest surge]

Side Quests and Guild Quests are better than Skyrims

[feral viper]

I won't touch that, at risk of the rant getting me banned.

Sufficed to say... I do not agree.

[forest surge]

Saying Oblivion has nothing to offer is just wrong at this point.

I like Oblivions more because of going to every Mages Guild in all the Major Cities in order to get a recommendation to the College in The Imperial City

Again it’s why I get annoyed when people treat Oblivion like it isn’t a good game in it’s own right.

Yes it has it’s problems

But I just get tired of something always being Morrowind or Skyrim and nothing in Between.

I mean Nords aren’t commonly ones for Magic so the School being there in Skyrim isn’t necessarily a good spot to get many recruits

[forest surge]

We all go into rants.

At least once

[feral viper]

Oh, some people can vouch for these rants on other discords ..

They're not at bad as my New Vegas rants, but they can get colourful none the less.

Especially when Oblivion and Mannimarco come up

[forest surge]

I just prefer to move on from certain things depending on certain factors, at this point I don’t care about Mannimarco’s Portrayal in Oblivion because of his Portrayal that ESO Showed like… 8 Years later.

[feral viper]

Which is technically 600 years earlier...

[forest surge]

By Timeline status yes

Anyone here part of UESP Discord?

[feral viper]

I am not, no.

[forest surge]

Aside from Bethesda Game Studios Discord they are like the other Elder Scrolls Based Discord that talks lore and all types of Elder Scrolls Stuff

The City Collapsed into the sea of Ghosts, so no chance of really building it back.

I mean you could make the argument that they could build it forward and not backward

But the only time You’ll see the City before the collapse is ESO, and they have yet to show it as of this moment

Telvanni Peninsula is this year showing off Necrom, City of The Dead for the Dunmer

Also yeah a bit but Trying to push Bias aside, I just like to see the value in every game, just because they all bring something that builds upon what’s there.

I mean if there was a real effort they could

But at the moment I think some Nords see Winterhold as a lost cause.

So Solitude and Eastmarch are on the Up.

I mean, yeah that would be the simple answer, but I also think some people just don’t see the point, some probably just lost hope, Like At this point Winterhold is the Bravil of Skyrim, the only thing of value there would be the College and while it is a symbol of Pride, after the collapse that is no longer the case, also seeing the Photo I definitely can see where they can build if they tried.

Although I question how stable that land is

At the edges in particular

I think some may be paranoid about making the attempt after the first collapse

Next thing you know they are building and if it gets heavy enough more land collapses

I mean we don’t ultimately know why it did, the biggest guess by scholars is that the Eruption of Red Mountain’s after effects or something along those lines finally reached Winterhold and caused the once stable land to collapse.

It may not be so simple, keep in mind every City has there own business to handle, Winterhold may not be deemed important enough to rebuild in a new location.

I mean that’s just scholar talk, whether it happened or not ultimately doesn’t matter because it just collapsed.

It’s wealth rivaled Solitude

It’s population

So safe to say it was at it’s best

I mean Dawnstar may be the lowest but by now after the major collapse, it may as well be

I mean we have to keep in mind that Tamriel is way bigger than we see in the games, it’s population is way bigger but probably nothing that can rival the other holds

A lot left and some stayed

[feral viper]

Somewhere between the size of Europe, and the size of Africa, really...

[forest surge]

Europe is the most common one that’s been brought up

[feral viper]

Which makes Skyrim somewhere between the size of Montana, and Kazakhstan

Point being, Winterhold likely still has a few thousand people.

[forest surge]

But at the lowest population of a Thousand

[feral viper]

Considering it's relative destitute status and destruction, I'd say 10k at most.

[forest surge]

It once rivaled Solitude so whatever Solitude would be is what Winterhold would have been in it’s prime

[feral viper]

Probably 30-50k

[forest surge]

Like applying real life terms is tricky at times

[feral viper]

Indeed.

[forest surge]

The Imperial City would be filled with 100k as far as I can guess

The Capital of Tamriel.

500k?

[feral viper]

I'd say closer to a million

Rome, at its peak, had a relatively conservative million inhabitants

[forest surge]

And Imperials are the Romans

[feral viper]

Possibly at high as 3.5m

[forest surge]

Considering this factor, 1 Mil at minimum sounds fair

[feral viper]

And the Imperial City is supposed to be Rome on steroids. Basically consisting of multiple cities in and of its self.

[forest surge]

Cyrodill would probably have the biggest population of the continent.

[feral viper]

I'd say Cyrodiil is probably about 10 million. Morrowind 4-10. Skyrim as high as 4. Highrock similar to Morrowind. Hammerfell similar to Skyrim.

Tamriel's population, I would generally estimate between 35 and 60 million

[forest surge]

And War Never Changes

[feral viper]

I tend to cover a wider estimate range in my numbers.

[forest surge]

Thing is at the end of the day the Real Tamriel would be way bigger than what we’ve played and our imagination is a wonderful thing

[feral viper]

I COULD estimate as high as 100m, depending on if any of the PGEs information about Cyrodiil is still valid.

[forest surge]

It’s crazy to think about in the sense that all that Land we see would be stretched out way more, the Important Ruins and all that would probably be even bigger and much more spread out

But in terms of the games would be more closed in with smaller distances between them

[feral viper]

We have no idea

[forest surge]

I mean I can’t recall that

We know there is a lot beyond Tamriel, and Tamriel is just one of the big fishes in a Big Pond

[feral viper]

In reality, we aren't even sure what percentage of it Tamriel takes up, or even if it's bihemislheral

[forest surge]

And it’s crazy to think about in that aspect, Tamriel while big is only part of the world

[feral viper]

All of Tamriel could be in Nirn's northern hemisphere, for all we know

[forest surge]

We hear of Akavir, Pyandonea, and have yet to see anything beyond that.

Northern Hemisphere

[feral viper]

Indeed

Though we aren't actually sure where Nirn's equator is

[forest surge]

I’ll post in screenshots

[feral viper]

Or, in fact ... If it IS a Sphere.

It's generally assumed, but we don't know for sure yet

[forest surge]

#screenshots-and-video message

And that’s the thing to, if that is the case, it’s 1/4 of what the rest of the world of Nirn has to offer

[feral viper]

While true, the mountain ranges and climate don't match up with what you'd expect in real world geography.

And parts of Morrowind are just as North as Skyrim, while still being quite temperate.

Yeah. So applying real world climatology to Tamriel may not be accurate

[forest surge]

Unless the devs really wanted to try one day when we get other lands

[feral viper]

Assuming that it's cold because it's North, and not for some other reason

https://tenor.com/view/imagination-spongebob-squarepants-dreams-magic-gif-12725683

[forest surge]

It really is crazy to think Tamriel is just one small part of the world as a whole

[feral viper]

Could be any number of magical reasons.

[forest surge]

Whatever Happened to Atmora is ultimately a Mystery, Climate Change just happened and no one really knows if Magic was a factor or just natural causes

[feral viper]

My pet theory is it was the Tongues.

The hyper-Conservative Tongues of Atmora collectively shouted Atmora into statis, to prevent its culture and traditions from changing.

Like a continent spanning Time Stop shout.

[forest surge]

And Considering The Series is called The Elder Scrolls it makes me wonder how the Scrolls will fit into outside lands but then again the games are literally the Scrolls Playing all possibilities with everyone’s playthroughs

I mean that really is something to wonder about, if the Gods have had effects upon the other lands as much as Tamriel, I have to assume so.

[feral viper]

Yeah

You also steal one in Oblivion

[forest surge]

Oblivion’s Thieves Guild had you steal one

Jinx

[feral viper]

The scariest of Pokemon

[forest surge]

ESO also had us grab Elder Scrolls between Warring Alliances because they saw the benefit of seeing the future to defeat the enemys but we don’t actually use them, we just steal them

[feral viper]

Because they sustain their Dragon Priests

[forest surge]

Elder Scrolls are heavily protected for a reason.

Nobody should be given that kind of Power

And even then only a Moth Priest can read it

It makes you wonder if Elder Scrolls exist beyond Tamriel

[feral viper]

Tamriel IS the centre of the Arena

Their presence may be linked to that centre

Or, they could be everywhere.

Their presence in the White-Gold library may have been a magical function of the Tower it's self, collecting the Scrolls from around Nirn in one place.

With the Tower now inactive (presumably) the Scrolls may have been freed to scatter

[pulsar root]

i have wondered even if BGS did all the provinces, where would they go next. Part of me wants to see a very high resolution Cyrodil but thats musing on my part.

[forest surge]

I think eventually other lands are a possibility if ESO doesn’t cover them first lol, but I doubt ESO would simply because it would be bigger for a Bethesda Mainline title to tackle first.

[livid ingot]

Don't think it would ever be a problem. Revisiting provinces is almost guaranteed with so much time between titles.

[forest surge]

I sometimes wonder if that will be true at all

Like I expect every province to get one Mainline Game at least

But I don’t know if Bethesda would revisit other Provinces at that point or just tackle another land

And even then Morrowind didn’t really explore all of Morrowind

The same way Daggerfall didn’t explore all of High Rock or the Alik’r

Like it’s tough to wonder about and I wonder if ESO is filling out whatever leftovers Bethesda didn’t touch aside from revisiting ones they did

[forest surge]

But then there’s the fact ESO did all of Summerset and Elsweyr, Valenwood, All of High Rock, Some of Hammerfell.

[livid ingot]

Skyrim has the best dungeons of any of the mainline games. Watruon, lol?

[forest surge]

To be fair they do wear out there welcome to some extent, but I am into exploring the entire world so aside from that it’s not to big of an issue

[livid ingot]

I could see them do Akavir maybe. Not really much elsewhere to go. Maybe Pyandonea?

I think they really exist more as potential plot devices than locations for games

[forest surge]

I do prefer Oblivion’s exploration over all but Skyrim is still fun for me.

[livid ingot]

Since all the series' mainline races would be extremely rare encounters

[forest surge]

I think it’s the environmental storytelling that helps make Dungeons fun

[livid ingot]

I've wanted that forever haha

[forest surge]

Sloads are to fat

I mean more when there are left over letters and a story to follow in a dungeon, not necessarily related to a quest

[livid ingot]

I won't say this criticism is without merit. It's just much worse in Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Oblivion.

[forest surge]

Because I like to read letters and such and see the individuals last thoughts and meet what may have killed them

I don’t recall that one

To be fair It was years back I played them

[livid ingot]

Yeah it is. Morrowind's dungeons are among the worst in the series. Daggerfall's are too big. Oblivion's are okay but monotonous and repetitive. Skyrim's dungeon are more interactive, more puzzles, have quick exits, etc.

More interesting lighting and design too I think. You get some cool vistas and the like

Not trying to be

I don't think I'm really being that controversial. All the games have different strengths. Morrowind's dungeons are widely panned as being incredibly short and bland.

Mind there are always standouts in the games. Ones the devs put lots of work into. These are really broad judgements.

Lots of people hated the Oblivion Gate dungeons for example. Want to claw their eyes out (as you do for Skyrim's dungeons)

Too much red lighting, apparently. 😄

[forest surge]

Oh I dislike the Oblivion Gate Dungeons, only the Story related ones I liked.

Because those aren’t just random

[livid ingot]

Well see that's a big difference. I like big dungeons. I like dungeon crawling games, like Legend of Grimrock etc

Mind, I do think the games should give players more options so that dungeon delving isn't a necessity

[forest surge]

Redguard?

[livid ingot]

Actually I think people should be able to go through games without much combat at all. But eh

I don't think that'll ever be implemented

[forest surge]

Elder Scrolls is about Combat, because… say it with me now…

[livid ingot]

Yeah, its a roleplayer's fantasy....

[forest surge]

War… War Never Changes…

[livid ingot]

Beth didn't make New Vegas

🤐

[forest surge]

Um… actually… they didn’t

He didn’t join until Daggerfall I believe

[livid ingot]

Yeah, but most people ignore Arena, heh

I wonder who would take over from Todd when he eventually retires?

I've never thought about that.

[forest surge]

It’s story is canon

But that’s about it

There are people who did and I checked out a lore vid on it.

Jagar Tharn the Main Villain of Arena is the reason the Empire went into a decline during the events of Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion.

And is also a Descendant of Abnur Tharn from Elder Scrolls Online

Yes

For 10 Years Straight.

[livid ingot]

Yeah, its significant. But the story is a pretty simple setup. Evil wizard holds emperor hostage, hides mcguffin around tamriel, you put mcguffin back together and throw down in the final boss fight

[forest surge]

Which takes 10 Years

[livid ingot]

Very classic rpg D&D

[forest surge]

The Whole Adventure is stated to have been a 10 Year Journey

All Across Tamriel.

[livid ingot]

About as long as your standard D&D campaign takes 😏

[forest surge]

The Hero was so damn Loyal to the Empire and that much was clear.

Jagar was defeated, but 10 Years of his rule is the whole reason The Empire went on a decline in the following Games

Arena wasn’t Tamriel as we know it, Daggerfall would later flesh out the lore properly

Arena is basically Beta Scrolls if anything

[livid ingot]

Funny thing is no one is even sure why Jagar Tharn did it

Its kind of assumed he wants power or whatever but he basically just idles and lets the empire fall into disorder

[forest surge]

There is no concrete answer, one theory is that he wanted Power, another is for Dagon to Eventually take control of Tamriel, and Considering Oblivion, it almost happened

I don’t really think we should count older games to much

[livid ingot]

Yeah, I've heard that theory before

[forest surge]

He lost because of one reason though…

He didn’t have the moves like Jagar

Jagar Tharn's "neglect and mismanagement of Imperial affairs" was later attributed to be the root cause of the notable decline in the Empire's economic prosperity during his ten-year reign, which was subsequently labeled the Imperial Simulacrum.[1] However, little is known of just what Jagar sought to accomplish during this time.

Jagar apparently had associations with devotees of Mehrunes Dagon, but details of these relationships are not known.

Yeah so Jagar is the reason the Septim Empire ultimately fell later on.

Like people just assumed, “Oh the Empire just eventually went into a Decline.”

No, someone’s legit neglect for responsibilities legit caused it to happen

I think so.

More like he talks to you when he wants to

Oh he mocks you whenever you get each important piece among other things

He’s definitely more involved as a Villain but doesn’t get his hands dirty.

Yeah he does a few times I believe

He has an actual name but I don’t remember