🎮〕illuvium-zero

[mortal merlin]

So travel curing crafting bonding, etc.

Yes

Land players get that share

[polar yacht]

although, land owners are also most likely stakers

[mortal merlin]

Thus giving the lands a use case and a value

[polar yacht]

owning the means of production is chad

[amber atlas]

Every fungible item in the game can be thought of as currency: ores, gems, hyperinos, etc

We could say you mine ETH, and make a sword by combining ETH with ETH

But assuming that swords stats are fixed for each sword of a similar type, it is also effectively fungible token as well, so we might as well use ETH to craft ETH and equip ETH to fight a creature

---

Reductio ad absurdum in effect here, but the point is, it is the act of creating these constructs that wrap the currency that gives the game flavour

[grizzled helm]

You are on another level my friend

[limpid pendant]

Ok this is good, thanks for stepping me through. This is how I'm rationalising the comparison now

ETH in-game currency:

1. Stakers get 100% revenue
2. No purpose for Land
3. Players subject to currency volatility
4. No monetary policy management

Fuel in-game currency:

1. Stakers get 95% revenue
2. Land has value as an ETH-generating asset
3. Players have no currency volatiltiy on the basis the DAO can stabilise price
4. Additional monetary policy management
5. Allows for further expansion

[polar yacht]

ILV stable coin?

[mortal merlin]

Yep you got it

[polar yacht]

if in game costs/fees denominated in USD then why not a pegged stable coin

gameification of a stable coin yield farm producing fuel

[limpid pendant]

I also have this as a challenging thought to the FUel monetary policy. In my above list under ETH in-game currency, the use of a stablecoin would remove point 3, but would still mean no point 2 given there's no purpose for the land as an asset

[mortal merlin]

Its gamification yes

So that land owners can control a little bit of supply and demand

But way less volatile still compared to eth and ILV

[slate goblet]

is there any article explaining what benefits land owners will have?

[polar yacht]

I've been toying with this idea of gamification of defi in the sense of a visual game UI.

[mortal merlin]

Check pinned gdd and tokenomics

[small star]

I wished we had more information on land productions to be able to understand the value of each level 1-5 + some idea of range of prices for the auction. Need some time to plan and set cash$ aside or get some sILV ....

[polar yacht]

there is actually a decent amount of info out there now. have you scrolled through pinned comments and read the GDD yet?

[small star]

The gdd dont allow you to understand what "low production" means and put a value on it XD

[polar yacht]

i dont know this to be a fact, but i assume either hard numbers have not been defined yet or have not been released

[mortal merlin]

Numbers are going to come before land sale.

[polar yacht]

i had a similar question, is it better to just own multiple lower tier plots or fewer high tier. i bet many people may lean toward more lower tier

since land space is an issue to be able to maximize game play, tech trees etc

[small star]

Thanks @mortal merlin

[small star]

It'll all depends of those numbers and price.

It's going to be interesting to see how it evolve and what people prefer. Going for lower level of lands to build a mega-city or go all-in in a higher level hoping to maximize production

[limpid pendant]

This is thinking a few steps ahead now but do you any concern about assets in new mini-games (not IZ) that would have productive assets and require a further tax be taken from in-game ETH. For example, currently 5% to land owners, 95% to ILV stakers and moving to 5% land owners, 5% asset owners in new mini-game and 90% to stakers?

[limpid pendant]

Just a further clarification on the above, so does that mean that revenue back to the ILV staker is not realised when the player actually makes the purchase of in-game products but when the player purchases FUEL?

[vivid cipher]

Haha. Pegged to true value. Not inflating fiat.

[vivid cipher]

Yeah that sounds correct.

[vivid cipher]

In addition to making the games actually games and fun, specific in game currencies likely lead to less psychological blocks to spending money in game. It’s much more likely to be “I’m gonna get a bunch of fuel and now I’m gonna use it” and less likely to be “is this really worth 0.0X ETH?” every time there is an in game transaction.

[limpid pendant]

Beaut, cheers!@

[pure sun]

Since IIP 10 was voted 5 days ago, does this mean that we should’ve already started counting down on the timeline of expected release date?

[trim orchid]

Hey guys, when land sale is live, do we already know if it can be purchased with sILV + eth?

[ivory vine]

sILV or ETH is confirmed already, yes. A combination of both is something that still needs to be looked into to my knowledge 🙂

[trim orchid]

Oh so combined is not yet sure, alright then, thanks!

[ivory vine]

Quote: "Note: It is unclear yet if hybrid purchases can be made (sILV + ETH in one transaction)"
https://gov.illuvium.io/#/ilvgov.eth/proposal/QmNab3vqQX3q2yTNSo1rwK5PzPgE8QxRnEA13jKz8gWQu9
🙂

[small star]

@ivory vine now that the project is validated, you should build a quick FAQ on the website along the existing one, and refer to it. Could help you I think

[ivory vine]

I'd imagine the team is already working on something or finding someone responsible for this. If not, we'll probably take it up soon 🙂

[trim orchid]

Thanks! Reading :)

[slow cedar]

So one thing I was wondering today: We know the first land sale will be 20k lands. 1) there was talk of a discount for the first land sale, I assume that idea's gone now that we're doing a Dutch auction? and 2) do we know if there will be another sale before the mini game goes live, or if you want to play IZ from day one as a non free to play player, you need to buy one of those initial 20k lands?

[amber atlas]

the goal is for the mini game (v1) to go live a the same time as the first land sale, and this will also be live for free to play (t0 land players)

[slow cedar]

Perfect, thanks Johnny. Good to know I'd better save up to be one of those 20k land owners then!

[amber atlas]

there will be a wipe at v2 (aligned with main game launch), but we hope to make at least some blueprints available for research before that (v1.1)

(wipe meaning the structures you have built will be wiped... of course you keep your NFTs be they land or blueprints)

[slow cedar]

Would you keep fuel at that point too? Or will this mean that at game launch, there will be a bit of a fuel shortage due to land owners needing time to re-set up production?

[amber atlas]

in the period between v1 and v2 fuel will not be meaningful as it won't be on the blockchain (so yes it will be wiped)

[slow cedar]

Gotcha, good to know thank you

[amber atlas]

we are hoping this is is a pretty short time, its basically a chance to get familiar with the game

and the ability to researach some blueprints will be a nice little bonus

[slow cedar]

Yeah that makes total sense - better to have us play then wipe as almost an alpha/beta test than just tell us that we're not able to play until launch

[amber atlas]

honestly I sent the version names to Aaron and I probably made a mistake, it would be clearer if we called v1.0 'alpha' or some such

[slow cedar]

Yeah that's logical. In the time frame you're bashing this out there's going to be some loose ends I'm sure. If there's going to be a wipe before game launch they matter way less. Here's a cheeky curveball question for you Johnny: Are you going to be buying land(s), and if so what tier are you aiming for?

[brazen zinc]

This is super helpful thanks Johnny. It makes sense to have some sort of IZ beta but Id say keeping the period of play followed by a wipe as short as possible is the key

[slow cedar]

sounds like it's out of Johnny's hands - the wipe will happen at main gameplay launch regardless of all else

[amber atlas]

I'd like to think I have some control over main game launch given that I look after tech, but there are many moving pieces in that puzzle

[slow cedar]

Ah interesting! I hadn't realised you did that as well as the IZ stuff

[amber atlas]

indeed, internally I look after all of tech (from infrastructure to the game developers to data science), but Aaron was nice enough to give me a game designer hat for Zero... so I get a lot more chance to interact with the community in this area

not too many people are interested in the nuances of terraform builds, or cpp coding standards

🙂

[slow cedar]

I'll be honest - I don't even know what those things mean! I can only assume those things are very dull, and there's a game designer inside hankering to get away from those dull things and make cool games instead:P

[cosmic thorn]

Is there a plan to do another land sale before V2?

[amber atlas]

we haven't talked about it, my feeling is that the timelines would be too tight

[sharp elk]

In a lot of people’s minds, calling something open beta is the same thing as saying game launch. If a game is at a stage where it is genuinely not ready yet, best not to call it an open beta.

[cosmic thorn]

Good to know, thanks! The first 20k lands will be even more valuable then

[junior depot]

I hope land won't be too expensive

[static raptor]

Is it confirmed if the blueprints do anything?

[polar dock]

Out of curiousity, what is too expensive for you?

[south forge]

If you discover them first in IZ you get rev share when they are purchased or used in the main game.. is what I could piece together

[faint fable]

So far from what i read can be used to craft skins, weopons & armors. They will be unique so you'll be the primary owner of the blueprints when other people use it you will gain a percentage of the cut.

Can someone please explain the multiplier functionality from vesting.

[rain breach]

That's a question for #🥩〕staking channel I think

[faint fable]

Yap all sorted thanks

[cinder fractal]

For me 2 expensive would be if I need to give more than 10% of my ilv bankroll for tier1

[little moon]

Landsale alreday finished?

[ivory bough]

hasn't even started. 10-12 weeks if there are no delays

[narrow remnant]

What can i do with a land? Is there a whitepaper i can read?

[ivory bough]

You can check the pinned messages for all the info about land

[dusk pulsar]

Will land tiers always stay the same tier, or can you upgrade them? Can someone explain how the auction will work. Lands sold 1 by 1? And will price reset back to start price when a land is sold or does it keep decreasing from that price?

[chilly hemlock]

You should look up on YouTube how a Dutch auction works because it explains it better than I could. I have seen nothing about upgrading lands and would assume you can’t

[lucid karma]

I don't think you can upgrade land tiers

[wind bolt]

Quick question on this, if you purchase land (t1-5) and build buildings on it, will those buildings be wiped when the full game goes live? or is this a reference to t0's

[vivid cipher]

yeah zilbagholder has it right... when you are the first to research/produce a blueprint then you will hold like the copyright for that design and when players in the maingame choose to use your design to produce something you would receive a portion of the resources/fuel used to forge it. Additionally it will likely be that since there won't be enough different designs for everyone to be the first to research/produce their own blueprint those that get a blueprint after the first person would have the chance to use the blueprint at a reduced cost of resources/fuel. It's not clear if the DAO or the initial blueprint hold would be the one to miss out on the amount being discounted. At least that is the use case for blueprints that has been discussed so far.

[vivid cipher]

yeah things get wiped regardless of land tier. The only thing to remain would be blueprints.

[dusk pulsar]

Looked it up on yt. So the price will start high and drops till someone buys it. And it will set that price for everyone. If im correct

[vivid cipher]

upgrading land tier will not be possible. The Land will all be unique NFTs set a specific tier based on their unique features. I imagine you could sell your land and invest more to buy a newer higher tier NFT. But that is not the same thing as upgrading your current NFT. It's upgrading to a new model... out with the old in with the new

[vivid cipher]

except this dutch auction will not be one auction for all land nfts. It will be a separate auction for each individual NFT.

[dusk pulsar]

Oke thanks a lot. Nice to know

[wind bolt]

So resources stored in a silo will also be lost? Basically liquidate everything before main game opens

[lucid karma]

everything except blueprints I believe

[vivid cipher]

yeah... but it wouldn't be connected to the blockchain until after the wipe so its not like people would be able to pour a bunch of funds into it anyways. (other than the initial land purchase) It's just a way to get players the ability to earn something for the TIME they spend basically beta testing the game

[wind bolt]

And then when illuvium proper opens, illuvium zero will also be running?

[vivid cipher]

yeah... fully integrated at maingame launch

thats the idea #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[terse osprey]

After buying a piece of land, the land owner is going to have to invest on it?

[vivid cipher]

it could be an investment of only time playing the game...

[terse osprey]

How much?

[vivid cipher]

depends on the player but I think the idea was to be minimal. It's a builder game as described. Mostly you'd start a building project and wait for it to complete. Aaron has said it would be like 3 months of efficient building to reach the building cap... but that is just the idea since the game hasn't even reached proof of concept stage

you tap to collect resources

you tap to build

you tap to play the game... it shouldn't be a time guzzler... more of an idle builder

he has used the game simpsons tapped out as an example

[terse osprey]

Ok... got it... hope I can buy a piece of land...

thanks for your time.

[wind bolt]

Is there a breakdown of building costs yet? meaning what resources are needed to build specific buildings? Other than whats in the GDD

[vivid cipher]

no

[odd furnace]

is there a release date for illuvium: zero and also in the land sale section it says "A Dutch auction will be used to sell land in tranches to maximise hype, minimise gas wars" in this will there be like a set timer that each section will be sold. And also would one person be able to buy more than one piece of land

[lucid karma]

i'm not 100% sure but I think it means the tiers will be auctioned off at different times. For example, tier 4 land will be auctioned off after tier 5 land auction finishes. With the dutch auction it starts high and goes low. So I think for a given auction tier, the highest bidder will get the 1st piece, 2nd highest gets the 2nd piece and so on until all of it is sold.

[grizzled helm]

ban @cosmic aspen

@little moon

[little wagon]

#spam

!spam

[vivid cipher]

not quite... each piece of Land will have unique attributes that will be known before any buyer would buy it. The starting price for all the items in each tier would be the same but many of them will be available to purchase at the same time.

My understanding after an explanation from admin is that it will be a separate, single-item, dutch auction for each individual Land NFT. We will all watch the price go down on the different NFTs and whoever is the first to process BUY IT NOW for the one they want will pay whatever the cost is at that block and will then be the owner of that NFT.

[lucid karma]

interesting

that could take a long time to auction off the low tier lands

[polar yacht]

idk, by then there will be an even larger community and i think the T1 land will be quite affordable.

[vivid cipher]

except they will be concurrent auctions not consecutive

[lucid karma]

so for example two tier 3 lands would not necessarily be identical?

[vivid cipher]

I think the idea is that they will definitely NOT be identical... they will be unique. They will have comparable objective value... but subjectively that might not be the case. Some would want to have a land in the fire region while others prefer in the water region... some would prefer more of one resource than another resource... its gonna be a complex yet equitable gaming system. I'm excited about it.

[lucid karma]

sounds cool

[true badger]

Hello, I am interested in purchasing land. How might someone purchase land at this current point in time?

[chilly hemlock]

It isn’t for sale yet, the proposal for the land sale just passed. It’ll be a Dutch auction in 10-12 weeks for the land. For more info, the GDD is the spoiler in the pinned comments and you can look at the most recent proposal in #📰〕governance-news

[odd furnace]

Can a person still be able to purchase more than one piece of land per wallet

[chilly hemlock]

Yep

[odd furnace]

Interesting also what is the idea behind building on the land I understand the owning and what rewards you get from owning it. Is the building there for the entertainment of that it makes it more play to earn or will the builds have a point

[vivid cipher]

i think the land ownership is actually just the asset. You don't earn any rewards until you build and produce the FUEL

[chilly hemlock]

You don’t really get anything for just owning it, the idea is to build factories that make fuel which you can use or sell in game. You could also research blueprints to use in game

[odd furnace]

Ok is there a cost for building on the land you now own??

And are lands limited to a current amount of builds??

[vivid cipher]

it's a building game like simpsons tapped out or the building side of clash of clans... so you can build stuff for free but pay to speed it up

yeah you won't be able to build everything on any single land NFT

[odd furnace]

Oh so it will then take time for the builds to be built

[vivid cipher]

I believe the higher tiers are actually not even bigger they just have better and more easily produced resources

you choose what branch(es) of the research/build tree you want to do and eventually you will hit a limit

[odd furnace]

I understand some land will have different resources to others and in so you wouldn’t be able to build everything

[vivid cipher]

well you will be able to by trading for the resources you need

or paying for them

or by building a device that will very slowly get you the resource you need

[odd furnace]

The trading system that will be in will be between players?? Would there be any gas fees for that

[vivid cipher]

have you read through the GDD? its pinned in here

[amber atlas]

@vivid cipher seriously I think you know more about the game than me 🙂

[odd furnace]

I did read on the updated one I don’t think I have read the full GDD

[vivid cipher]

mostly because I make stuff up... I can say what I want because it's still being developed... you can't because it's still being developed

[odd furnace]

And also I just ask as to wrap my head around it all cause it’s an awesome idea so like want to just make sure I fully understand before it out 😂

[vivid cipher]

that's why I'm here too... helps me to talk it out

[odd furnace]

Awesome well you will 100% receive an endless line of questions cause I do have a lot 😂😂

[vivid cipher]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message this is the one you want

This is the initial concept of the Illuvium Zero GDD... the plan has changed a bit since this was first shared but still plenty of relevant info https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/857471213513605140/867823747330474014/SPOILER_Illuvium_Zero_GDD.pdf

it has a lot of information even if some numbers have been revised in the tokenomics GDD… shown here… https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/857471213513605140/872697327503163453/IZGDD-Tokenomics.pdf

[chilly hemlock]

You have spent so much time speculating about the game and I feel like all of your ideas make logical sense. It gives me a lot to think about

[vivid cipher]

yeah some is speculation some is from conversations with Aaron and the other mods... we got to ask some questions on the initial GDD before it went public

[odd furnace]

Once I have gone over this for sure I will have more questions so see you soon 😂😂

[chilly hemlock]

Oooooh I’m so excited for this

[vivid cipher]

it's actually the spoiler post that aaron made already... you probably already read it

[chilly hemlock]

Oh darn I thought u were saying it was a newer one lol

[vivid cipher]

no there are only the 3 IZ docs that are up on discord to look at

just wanted to pin it for more clarity

[hasty haven]

Will lands be available to be exchanges on the IlluviDEX?

[vivid cipher]

i'm sure they will

[hasty haven]

so blueprints, i'm guessing its just a normal blueprint used to craft things

hold up. is this like copystrike. what if i copystrike a hook blueprint, everytime someone builds a hook i get a share in the fee?

[slate goblet]

was it said how many lands there will be?

[chilly hemlock]

100k, sold in 5 batches of 20k

[vivid cipher]

copystrike i guess is the proper term

but only for the first discoverer

later discoverers just get discounts or something

[hasty haven]

yo so if i discover like, a coolass super speed spaceship. if anyone wants the god tier spaceship, they need to pay me a bit

what if i copystrike a master shard. hell yea

[hasty haven]

and only people with land can create these blueprints, right

[slate goblet]

how much will be the initial price?

[hasty haven]

its a dutch auction, so it'll start high and gradually go down until someone buys. i dont think they revealed starting price

[vivid cipher]

yes

[merry elm]

I don't think there will be much of going down, people buy useless stuff for thousands, or low budge , not that brilliant game stuff on such sales, I don't see how you will have chance to get anything if you don't buy right away

[hasty haven]

true

[merry elm]

just have to wait for price announcement , it will pretty much decide if I get anything and some update on how land actually works , because at this point T1 dosnt seem that great

[hasty haven]

What is t1

[misty orbit]

tier 1 land

[merry elm]

Land will have Tiers from 1-5

[vivid cipher]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[hasty haven]

ah gotcha

[slate goblet]

how much will the initial price be?

[hasty haven]

and the auction will have 20k lands for sale right, only t1s?

[merry elm]

no

[hasty haven]

alright

[merry elm]

there is limit how many of each tier there will be on sale and limit how many of each tier there are in total , I suppose it will be 20 % of each Tier max, but who knows

[chilly hemlock]

Only 7 tier 5, and the rest are unknown. Each higher tier will be rarer than the last tho

[hasty haven]

oh gotcha

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[vivid cipher]

it could look something like this though... 13498.6 T1
4500 T2
1500 T3
500 T4
1 or 2 T5

but thats pure speculation

[vivid cipher]

yeah this is a tool that he made to postulate what the breakdown of the different tiers could like like...

[slate goblet]

so land owners are able to build structures that produce fuel that is used on travel?

[hasty haven]

gotcha. speculation

[merry elm]

T 1 is little bit different, that is why it is kinda questionable if it is worth it

[vivid cipher]

t1 will still do it, just slower

[merry elm]

Well you dont have fuel nodes , but yes you can still get fuel , just more expensive and slower

[vivid cipher]

in fact aaron said that the efficiency for producing fuel should increase by tier at a slower rate than the increase in ~~price point ~~scarcity of the different tiers (I had to change that from price point to scarcity they don't necessarily mean the same thing, but I think the idea is for starting price of the dutch auction and the scarcity to be in direct correlation)

[merry elm]

well I want to see more detail and then decide what I think about T1 , maybe it wount be that bad , just looks kinda questionable from what I have seen at this point

[vivid cipher]

so hypothetically... if each tier was 3x more rare than the one below it... if you have like 3 tier2s working producing fuel you'd get more fuel than if you had 1 t3. even though the scarcity is 3x higher.

[merry elm]

sure , but T1 does not have fuel nodes to begin with so it is bit different

[vivid cipher]

same would be true for t1 to t2

you just build the converter

or whatever the structure was called

[merry elm]

yes but on doc I saw it was sait that it is expensive and not really worth it, it is only in case if you dont want to trade

[vivid cipher]

huh alright... i think it said not very efficient but yeah we shall see

[merry elm]

that is the thing we can only speculate right now 😄

[vivid cipher]

for sure... and I should really be working right now

[merry elm]

Was thinking that I am spending bit to much time in this discord too

[cosmic aspen]

impossible!

[vapid helm]

Will there be a scholarship structure available like in Axie Infinity?

[vivid cipher]

I mean how will I ever be able to choose... time in discord or time in game

[vivid cipher]

not officially no

[vapid helm]

That’s a shame, I think it’s what has made the community and economy there strong

[vivid cipher]

the main game is different than the mini game anyways

!f2p

[dry forge]

You begin our game with a free-to-play experience that immerses you in our richly-detailed world, lets you enjoy some action, and helps you understand how the game works. The free-to-play experience of the Tier 0 regions will familiarize you with Illuvium, and won’t feel like an “abridged” version of the game. It is a full-fledged gameplay experience! If you like it, you can then decide to opt in to the paid experience, start collecting NFTs from higher tiered regions, and delve into deeper adventures to explore the mysteries of the game where the NFTs you gather start to hold more value as well.

Just after game launch, when everyone starts fresh, you might even be able to sell free Tier 0 NFTs on the IlluviDEX for ETH, but there is no guarantee for that.

[vivid cipher]

!imx

[dry forge]

Illuvium uses Immutable X as a layer 2 solution. This means that you won’t be charged network gas fees within Illuvium and instead only need to transfer funds between the Ethereum Mainnet and Immutable X. This keeps the player's cost of doing business low, maximizing potential gain. For more information about Immutable X check out https://www.immutable.com/

[uneven dawn]

And IMX auto-sells ETH for the layer 2 transactions into IMX on their backend right, providing a seamless UX?

[vivid cipher]

I think a lower cost of entry will make a bigger impact than scholarships... ownership for players not just indentured servitude

[vivid cipher]

sorry I don't have enough experience with IMX to know how it works

[merry elm]

It was needed just because it was not possible to get in the game to begin with , even in advanced countries 1000+ just to play game will drive away tons of players , let alone most of the world

[vivid cipher]

exactly... thats why ILV will start as f2p you can try it as long and as much as you want and not PAY or earn a thing. But pay $50 or LESS and you can probably start grinding to bigger and better things

anyway this is all discussion regarding the main game and not Illuvium Zero

[vapid helm]

I don’t know that indentured servitude is an apt description of how it works but if the cost to entry is lower then yes that may help, though with the hype this game is bringing and the ILV cost I doubt low entry cost will be around for long

[cosmic aspen]

you don't need ILV to play the game though, so the "entry" costs will always be the same

all in-game fees will be in fixed USD values

[vapid helm]

Sorry I’ll take this chat elsewhere, appreciate the conversation

[vapid helm]

Ok good to know, cheers. Looking forward to playing

[narrow remnant]

Is there anywhere i can read all about what land is for?

[south forge]

pinned messages has that

[slate goblet]

how will the 5 batches work? will they split all tier lands on the 5 batches? or will each batch sell all lands of a tier?

so, land will be a kind of passive income? land owners will build structures that will produce fuel and this fuel can be sold on marketplace, similar to SLP on axie?
will we need to spend more money to build structures?

[chilly hemlock]

Each tier will be split as evenly as possible between each batch, so the first batch will be 20k land that has all tiers with only 1 or 2 T5 and probably over 10k t1. The next land sale will likely not be for multiple months after that one. It is free to build structures but it may cost money to speed them up. Think of it like any mobile tycoon game. Land will generate passive income in the form of fuel and blueprints, but you should actively play the game for maximum returns

[slate goblet]

got it 🙂 so we either leave structures working by themselves or spend money to speed up production, and of course the fuel price will influence on that

is this the only way to produce fuel on the games? is there any advantage on owning 2 lands close to each other as in decentraland?

[low geode]

It was talked about that adjoining plots may offer an advantage of being able to build more than you could on a single plot but I don’t know if that made it through

[slate goblet]

so 2 adjacent lands should produce more than 2 not adjacent ones

[low geode]

They haven’t released any specifics so it is unknown. Just tossing out what I had heard prior.

[slate goblet]

let's wait 😄

[low geode]

Yes. Hurry up and wait around here.

[mortal merlin]

Okay

@cosmic aspen

[grizzled helm]

ME

[cosmic aspen]

wait....nOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[mortal merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/idris-elba-reloading-gun-dark-tower-matthew-mc-conaughey-revolver-gif-8991165

[cosmic aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/harry-potter-daniel-radcliffe-good-bye-bye-wave-gif-4599867

[south forge]

ban jeff, and distribute his holding to stakers
ill write up the IIP

[vivid cipher]

I vote no. I can’t live without the memes

Well I could but I certainly don’t want to

[stoic tangle]

Do you need to stake Illuvium for the land sale

[blazing briar]

No it's not required

[stoic tangle]

Okay, thankyou!

[inland smelt]

If you want to buy LAND by sILV, then yes 🤣

[fallow igloo]

If you stake ILV you will share in the Revenue Distribution from the land sale

[versed cosmos]

Can I use a mix of ETH and sILV to by a land?

[cosmic aspen]

to be determined

[dense cipher]

Would be great to add money from the outside to the economy.. isn’t it?

[odd furnace]

it would be but it is still to be determined cause it also makes it such that people who invest the time to stake now would be able to be rewarded more so for doing so

[cosmic aspen]

well you can use ETH absolutely

and sILV

but the issue is spending a mix at once

that would require something to be built to allow that

[sharp galleon]

will be interesting to see if there will be a sILV market with size trading at a discount to ILV, would love to pick up disounted sILV to buy more land cheaper hehe

[slate goblet]

will it be done on ETH ou IMX?

when will be the 1st land sale?

[ivory vine]

In roughly 7-10 weeks, exact date still to be determined 🙂

[mint grail]

can i trade my friends sliv when the games launches? 😄

game*

[grizzled helm]

Yes, its an ERC 20 token 🙂 so you could send to your friends wallets. Not sure about how it will work on L2, but for sure on L1.

[mint grail]

thats cool! thank you

[grizzled helm]

Ya! Welcome aboard

[sharp galleon]

lets see if some sILV/ILV liquidity pools spring up

[woeful narwhal]

I'm definitely not able to afford lands. Literally my whole bucks goes into staking ILV (not that much really 🤣) but kudos to the team for making zero available for f2p players. I'm hoping to get at least near full experience even with tier 0 lands, aside from earning from the game of course. I think that would be great for gamers who doesn't have capitals to purchase land but interested with the game. Let's face it, coming from developing/3rd world country, we probably can't afford one.

[grizzled helm]

Ya itll be great, I have faith that the F2P side is just as cool.

[slow cedar]

The thing is, for decades people have played games like IZ for free expecting no monetary reward. This team is high talent, and are going to make a fun game. Before nft gaming many of us would have played it expecting nothing in return. I honestly think the free to play version is a stroke of genius

[slate goblet]

I'd say more, lootbox / gacha + other P2W games have players spending handsome money to then just stop playing and leave all their expensive assets behind

[pine salmon]

is someone creating a pool in order to buy a Tier 5 land? I may want to participate

[lucid karma]

i think there is one being made

[pine salmon]

tried to find out, searching

[slate goblet]

pool to trade NFT?

so, is land building production the only way to acquire fuel for travel? or we will be able to pay directly to the game to travel?

[vivid cipher]

!DAO is the better term for what is being discussed here. It just a pool.

[dry forge]

Illuvium is a DAO (Decentralized Autonomous Organization). The governmental body, known as the council, is elected by ILV token holders.

If you have an idea that you feel will improve the game and community as a whole, you should start by sharing your idea in the #802110554784661544 section and getting feedback from the community. If there are no major issues, you could then write a proposal and submit it to the council for review: https://medium.com/illuvium/30-contribute-to-illuvium-game-development-by-submitting-iips-via-github-ccf4bfae30

The council, which should be composed of knowledgeable & experienced members who think critically and accurately, will then - after careful deliberation if your proposal is truly best for the game and community - vote to either accept or reject the proposal.

[slate goblet]

if we can pay directly, then fuel price will be capped below travel payment

[vivid cipher]

And it would not be the Illuvium DAO but something else. A different organization. I don’t know of one that is actually being setup though.

[ivory vine]

No one needs to play or own something in Illuvium Zero to fully play the main game 🙂

[slate goblet]

lol no I don't mean it, I mean buy fuel from fuel producers

[vivid cipher]

Fuel can bought with ETH or sILV. ETH will do anything. Hmm it’ll be through the official liquidity pools for ETH/FUEL and sILV/FUEL

[odd furnace]

on the GDD by each teir of land is has a qty value is this qty value set in stone as there will only be that amount available

[grizzled helm]

while the amounts are not finalized, once they are, this will be the max supply of land. More info will come before the sale 🙂

[odd furnace]

ty for the info

also the development phases for July was the POC is there a document for all of that or where can all of that be seen

also in regards to the blueprint it says this "In the Alpha - August this would only be a collectible and serve no purpose beyond capturing as many as possible." how does one get blueprints now?

[slate goblet]

I mean, will we be able to pay directly to the game to make travel, or will we need to buy fuel from IMX (I hope) fuel marketplace?

if the only way to travel be by spending fuel, all ILV players will need to either own Zero land and produce their own fuel, or buy fuel from land owners, and fuel price will be based on market demand

[odd furnace]

no so like you will be able to buy fuel with sILV in order to travel you wont need to own land to do so

[slate goblet]

but if we can pay directly to the game to travel, fuel price won't increase above in-game travel price

I know we don't need to own land :-x

[knotty shard]

sILV and ETH there will be a limited supply of sILV as this comes from the Max Supply of ILV

[odd furnace]

so the fuel used for in game how i understand it will be provided by the eco system of the owners of the land making it that the fuel price will go up and down with demand

[slate goblet]

so u think we won't be able to pay in the game to travel

[odd furnace]

like from what i understand most of the fuel will be provided by like these lands not saying you wont be able to pay in game for the fuel just meaning that the money spent on it will some of it will be given to those owners of the fuel

[slate goblet]

let's wait for more info :-x

[odd furnace]

yea that would be better im just speaking from what i am reading in the GDD

and from what im understanding in it as well

[slate goblet]

I hope fuel only exists on IMX, and also we can market it on marketplace instead of relying on LP

[vivid cipher]

@odd furnace the GDD has made up quantities. The actual voted proposal set total land limit cap at 100k

[odd furnace]

oooh ok

[odd furnace]

also the development phases for July was the POC is there a document for all of that or where can all of that be seen
also in regards to the blueprint it says this "In the Alpha - August this would only be a collectible and serve no purpose beyond capturing as many as possible." how does one get blueprints now?

[slate goblet]

and what will we be able to do with blueprints?

[valid canyon]

may be we can use aragon to setup a DAO to buy tier 5 land?

[vivid cipher]

This has the more up to date timeline. #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

Regarding blueprints… when you are the first to research/produce a blueprint then you will hold like the copyright for that design and when players in the maingame choose to use your design to produce something you would receive a portion of the resources/fuel used to forge it. Additionally it will likely be that since there won't be enough different designs for everyone to be the first to research/produce their own blueprint those that get a blueprint after the first person would have the chance to use the blueprint at a reduced cost of resources/fuel. It's not clear if the DAO or the initial blueprint holder would be the one to miss out on the amount being discounted. At least that is the use case for blueprints that has been discussed so far.

[vivid cipher]

I bet there are a fair number of DAO creation tools out there. I don’t have experience in that

[lucid karma]

the tricky thing to figure out on the DAO is you can't just fractionalize it because presumably someone still has to use it in game to have value

[vivid cipher]

The tier 5 may be a bit different. But yeah there will need to be a multisig controlling wallet or something.

[candid elk]

Do you know if development started when the IIP got approved? Or is the team still hiring people to begin development?

[odd furnace]

so you will only get blueprints once Illuvium zero comes out

or be able to get them

[fallow igloo]

Yes the blueprints are exclusively from Illuvium Zero

[odd furnace]

is there a release date for illuvium zero?

[ivory bough]

**Probably **November-December

[odd furnace]

so round the sametime the land sales will be

[fallow igloo]

Yes

[ivory bough]

Land sale is before that, but yeah...close

[odd furnace]

so on what platform will the dutch action take place on

[hasty haven]

Will the minigame only exist on mobile?

[ivory bough]

remains to be seen as far as I know

[ivory bough]

yes IZ is on mobile

[odd furnace]

the simulation with the trading functionality that is coming out would we be able to see this and test this out and on what platform would this be on aswell like website based or app?

[valid saffron]

Hi guys , how much is land and how will the prices work for land and is there mining in the game ?

[potent dock]

We don't really know prices yet, it'll be a dutch auction so that will set the price. By mining do you mean crypto style mining, or like, World of Warcraft style "tink tink" mining?

[valid saffron]

Warcraft and other games

[potent dock]

Check out the GDD posted by Aaron, it's hidden by a spoiler. A quick search returns nothing for mining specifically, but you will be able to extract resources according to that document.

It looks like there will be Resource Extractors and Resource Converters. I suppose those could be considered "mines" in a sense, but I don't think the node style mining of games like WoW will be present (as it's a city-builder game)

[odd furnace]

the pinned message in here has the GDD

[valid saffron]

Ye that's what I am thinking . Energy or sILV or helpers

[potent dock]

Oh actually, mines are mentioned expilicitly, I was searching for "mining" haha.

[valid saffron]

It's a pdf with 18 pages .. perhaps not now on the cell for reading 🤕😅

[valid saffron]

Cool thank you

[odd furnace]

im sure you can open it on discord for the PDF

[potent dock]

'member ctrl + F to search! Good for specifics in docs like that

[valid saffron]

I am not on a desktop . All good thx

So the Dutch action for land only ? will be paid for in sILV

[potent dock]

You can spend sILV or ETH during the land sale! And yeah, it'll only be a land sale - 20k/100k during the first sale

[valid saffron]

Wow I will be playing and staking and renting by the sounds of it

[sage inlet]

Dev is very much in progress. Don' think any more people needed though - we got this.

[graceful sleet]

Hey, if I understand correctly tier1 land will not produce fuel right? How than will someone make profit from t1land?

[sage inlet]

While that may be true at present (I don't have a fixed answer), the design is in flux and may change before private alpha.

JohnA or Aaron would be the people to ask about design decisions.

[slow cedar]

Al, are you working on IZ?

[sage inlet]

I am not.

Oh, Illuvium Zero - yes, lol. Sorry, thought... yeah.

I don't know what I thought you meant for a second there, lol

[graceful sleet]

How do you guys call it than? What's team lingo for iz?

[slow cedar]

Haha no problem! Great to see you in here. Good to put some names to the dev roles on the mini game. Glad you feel confident the team's the right size

[sage inlet]

I just run it by tasks atm, lol ZERO-some-number 😛

[slow cedar]

Task 001 - code up full mini game.
Task 002 - fix bugs

Any idea if the intention is to have IZ as a downloadable app, or as a browser based webgl build?

[sage inlet]

Ideally both, but it depends on platform restrictions

Two tasks to write the entire game? If only! 😛

[slow cedar]

Makes sense. A long time ago I told Aaron I was a unity dev and he told me to get on unreal. Look at the team now! Do a great job and show him unity's great

[wind bolt]

So what you guys thinking tier 1’s are gunna go for? 1k?

[odd furnace]

dont know

[little moon]

I doubt anything is selling for less than 1 ETH, whatever thats worth when the land sale happens. They will likely be promoting the open beta by then and there could be a LOT of people looking to buy especially if NFTs in general keep being so profitable.

[odd furnace]

at this time they havent said they will be using ETH as the currency for buying the land so far it will only be sILV so only if you stake ILV so far will you be able to buy land

[little moon]

Lands will be for sale in both ETH and sILV

Maybe not a mix of the two for one payment.

[odd furnace]

so far they have only said sILV or do you have new info?

[little moon]

literally scroll up like 20 comments, I think its in the GDD too

[odd furnace]

you are right sir i do apologize it says it in the POC update

[wind bolt]

That’s great. ILV stake’rs will be happy

[little moon]

No worries man, The organization of information around here leaves much to be desired.

[odd furnace]

true

[wind briar]

We found another CC to give us leaks

[grizzled helm]

🙏

[sage inlet]

This.

[sage inlet]

Feel free to suggest improvements - we're listening.

[vivid cipher]

More leaks

https://tenor.com/view/john-jonah-jameson-lol-laughing-hysterically-laughing-out-loud-funny-gif-17710543

[silk arrow]

Estimates about when the lands will be offered?

[trail kayak]

check the second pinned message, it has rough timelines

[valid canyon]

if you are Al, then you think IZ is another person whom are you work on😉

Guys, blueprints are the creatures, like Atlas?

[cinder fractal]

I think how blueprints are skins, weapons and armor not creatures but I can be wrong

[valid canyon]

thanks, will wait, somebody may be add something

[wind bolt]

Hey quick question, it says in the GDD (and in messages ive seen here) that blueprints will be NFTS; and potentially will act as patents for armor or weapons, is there anywhere where I can find more details on that or is that the full extent of it?

[vivid cipher]

@wind bolt @cinder fractal

I’m gonna share what I know about blueprints so far.

Update. The following is not likely going to be how it works.

Regarding blueprints… when you are the first to research/produce a blueprint then you will hold like the copyright for that design and when players in the maingame choose to use your design to produce something you would receive a portion of the resources/fuel used to forge it. Additionally it will likely be that since there won't be enough different designs for everyone to be the first to research/produce their own blueprint those that get a blueprint after the first person would have the chance to use the blueprint at a reduced cost of resources/fuel. It's not clear if the DAO or the initial blueprint holder would be the one to miss out on the amount being discounted. At least that is the use case for blueprints that has been discussed so far.

[wind bolt]

And could they be traded on the marketplace?

[ocean hollow]

how many blueprints are there? these are like crafting recipes right

[amber atlas]

I discussed this model with Aaron and he wasn't a fan of the 'lottery' model where the first person to research a BP gets such a significant advantage

we are thinking that (at least for v2) that you will need to own the BP in order to craft the item it defines

but being the first discoverer will only grant a small benefit (like your name in a 'highscore' type table associated with the NFT)

there's still a lot of room to earn, as we came up with a model where doing more research makes it more and more likely you will get the higher tier items (and becasue the BP will now be required rather than leased)

with also some ways you can control what you research (a specialisation of sorts)

I think we've reached a good balance between exciting moments, and consistent returns

next step is the internal write up, and then we will look at sharing it with the community (presumably a document, but maybe a video or something)

in general Aaron and I come from opposite spectrum of preferred gameplay (I like grindy MMOs and randomness, and he likes carefully manicured and predictable systems that rely on big brains)... if we both strongly agree it is usually a sign the design is good.. but feel free to share your thoughts

[fallow igloo]

You’re doing Gods work @amber atlas keep up the amazing work!!

[wind bolt]

Worldwide blueprints that all players use is a fun idea, if they had a lot of specifications it’s possible that it won’t be a monopoly. But if it’s blueprint for “Sword” or “shield” then I understand the fear of that lottery/first one gets rich

[amber atlas]

the BP is a combination of weapon./armour type, stage, and the Illuvial Biodata you have scanned, so there are quite a few combinations... but we also expect quite a large and active player base

we definitely didn't want to run out, or drip feed these things so slowly that research is a bore

[fickle ore]

so some Illuvials will only be able to be acquired through BP? Is this mechanic similar to specific items being needed to evolve specific types of pokemon like Onyx?

[late relic]

If the idea to sell the land to whales is to benefit ILV. Then the land should not be sold and all fuel proceeds generated from land should go to ILV stakers in perpetuity? Isn’t that a better long term value proposition?

[amber atlas]

No no, in Zero you SCAN Illuvials to retrieve their BIODATA which you can use to drive research

[wind bolt]

No totally I get it. But be interesting if players were crafting and it was “Matty’s Armor” with special X versus “Johnny’s Armor” with special X2”

[amber atlas]

Zero has nothing to do with capture

[fickle ore]

🙌🏽 gotchu. Ty for the clarity.

[amber atlas]

yeah I think that is a next step, been suggested by a few internally also

[wind bolt]

Just want to say. I am so fucking amped for this game. Zero. The main one. ILV.

[amber atlas]

?? the whales buy land which they cannot sell? and they don't get profit from it?

[south forge]

the more you research the easier it makes capture (in main game) or research of illuvials is just for fun?

[amber atlas]

BIODATA lets you build cosmetic items in Zero (like holographic statues of your scanned Illuvials), and it lets you research blueprints which are NFTs which you can sell but also use to craft items in the main game

[south forge]

that is so cool

[amber atlas]

*scanned not captured... 🙂

[fickle ore]

Has the team considered having a certain tranche of land sales reserved for purchase only using sILV? This would serve as a great incentive to stake pool contributers of ALL sizes, especially those who took more risk earlier on. Not just ETH whales that assuredly will move into this space almost anomalously the moment the land sales begin. Even if its Tier 1 land.

[small star]

I think the most important question after the lands are sold is how many owner are also players. If that’s owner just there for the fuel gains, giving them things for the game won’t be interesting for them and all player will be disappointed not being able to afford a land to enjoy advantages in the game. There is a right usage to find for lands

[south forge]

so I can build a holo atlas statue on my land that everyone has to come and worship 😎

[amber atlas]

I'll be blunt, I tend to stay out of tokenomics unless it is purely a math's problem, I don't know the market well enough, I can say that consideration has been given to many possibilities and there are ongoing discussions with community, council, etc, I trust that the council will come to a solution that is in the best interests of illuvium

[wind bolt]

Religion in-game? …. I’m in

[amber atlas]

hah, ideas formulating...

[south forge]

religion of atlas on my land

[wind bolt]

This will only lead to one thing…. Rival religions and then war

[grim shell]

This guy gets it.

[wind bolt]

Can we get a governance proposition for war?!!?!?

[fallow igloo]

And you know what religious wars lead to? Profits ;P

[amber atlas]

a game where you battle for land, and you can actually conquer other peoples NFTs would be freakin' amazing... but that is not this game 🙂

I've already pitched it a few times

[south forge]

v5 will be though 🙃

[wind bolt]

I mean....what would Pokemon be without team rocket?

[grizzled helm]

Interesting

[fallow igloo]

Maybe have some lands that are guarded by very epic Illuvials that IF you beat them they give you a land plot??

[south forge]

see it all links together... guilds and war... to join my army you need to build an atlas statue on your land which I get a comission for

[vivid cipher]

This self assessment behind this pairing is why I really love this team. They seek opposing points of view in order to create a more broadly appealing balance.

[dry hawk]

Can anyone verify molten science as genuine please? going to do an ILV to sILV swap with him but its just trust based so I want verification

[grizzled helm]

Pay like a protection fee to hide your blueprints from being stolen? (Something like a team rocket) So you cant just hoard them without using them? Not sure the exact mechanism here

[wind bolt]

YES!

Officer Jenny in-game

[amber atlas]

as long as everyone is we are aware we are purely in conjecture space: I see a plausible model where there are home bases which are land NFTs that are inviolate (can't be conquered).... these make up some small percentage of the map like 10%, the rest of the map is up for grabs with ownership transferring based on some kind of capture mechanic

the home bases have enough resources that over time you can reasonably build up a new force and start conquering even if you get hammered back to your home base

[grizzled helm]

Ya I get that, just brainstorming 🙂

[amber atlas]

but to truly expand and dominate you have to get your builds/creatures/etc out there

[wind bolt]

Totally, there should be "safe" ones, but the open/at risk ones have wayyy more resources and/or rare illuviums

[amber atlas]

the only bad part of this kind of idea is it it so exciting it makes me want to stop working on other stuff

🙂

[wind bolt]

This ties into clans/guilds too, forming alliances to hold the lands

And! More than that, what if, hypothetically, the user base decided to form a government

[amber atlas]

yeah, the pragamatic problems of this model tends to be that the clans control becomes so strong, that it is basically impossible for a new player to get involved

a lot of games like this (Evony springs to mind), have lots of new instances/worlds springing up all the time to combat this

but how does that work with NFTs

[wind bolt]

do it like the privacy coins- one person one vote, everyone gets one GovernmentCoin

[merry elm]

Clans are very bad nowadays, people like to push others out and it is very hard to balance, have seen lot of games get ruined by share numbers pushing everyone to leave

[amber atlas]

@wind bolt what powers would the government have? maybe some kind of policy enforcement (must commit X dollars to treasury, or fight in y amount of battles), and if you breach it you get branded a traitor or something

[south forge]

i love how what started as a teaser to give us something before main game was released is now becoming a beast of its own... great work team A+

[wind bolt]

This also goes back to my "Officer Jenny" in game, the people could decide what was against the rules or not

They could vote to make certain actions "illegal" - like betting on matches by using illuviums as your bet seems like a bad idea, but if the people vote for it...

Or hell - they could vote against clans existing or not

[amber atlas]

EVE Online is pretty good at giving players this kind of freedom, although in the end playing the game does feel a lot like work

(and also so hard to get in to if you are new)

[wind bolt]

I think thats part of the beauty, you could stick to the "safe" zones, train your illuviums and play the arena like a square. Or LIve ON tHe EdGE

[timid basin]

but then its not player owned? but also... DAMN I SEE UR POINT...

[wind bolt]

Regardless I think some level of corruption/unethical/crime would be fun to include, I understand the hesitation but it makes open world games so fun. Who doesn't want to be part of the thieves guild?

[sage tree]

I think everything should be in play and open. Let the chips fall where they may.

[timid basin]

where will the dutch auction for land be held? on illuvium.io? or within the illuvium zero game app?

[cosmic aspen]

iirc they said they will be building out their own thing(on illuvium.io domain) for it like they did for the balancer sale

[timid basin]

sweet awesome

thanks bro

[hidden lava]

Awesome do you remember where you heard this ?

[cosmic aspen]

i honestly can't remember the specific source haha

[timid basin]

I heard it from Jeff, Jeff is source, Jeff is life

[hidden lava]

Haha all good

[wind bolt]

Was thinking about this more (after I smoked) what if you guys released "tech upgrades" throughout the "timeline" of illuvium, and therefore made some blueprints obsolete, (in-game mechanics meaning that blueprint was "archived" and no longer could be used for new weapons/armor)

[late relic]

What I mean is why give whales rent forever when you can actually give yield to ILV holders forever, the land is set to be sold as an auction based on my understanding, only whales will win and the one time investment over 5-10 years will be minimal compared to the real value ILV holders will get if the land is owned by the holders.

[amber atlas]

why would you invest money and time to play the game if you don't get a return from the things that you build? this seems to be the same as saying "why don't the Illuvial's you capture in the main game instead of going to your collection just randomly get distributed to ILV holders"

maybe I am missing something, but it just doesn't make sense to me

are you saying don't sell land at all?

in any case you are welcome to draft and submit a proposal for your plan, that's the whole point of being decentralised!

[small star]

Then why selling lands from the start ? Land will produce like 5% of the fuel, the other 95% will already be sold to players and $ will go to revdis… sorry but I don’t understand your point.

[amber atlas]

me either, I'm not trying to be facetious, I just don't quite 'grok' the idea

[slate goblet]

so 95% will be produced by the game and 5% will be produced by lands?

we must buy fuel to travel and will buy either from game or on marketplace?

[amber atlas]

in any case I'm off to enjoy some of the feeble sunlight before my wife physically kicks me off the computer

take care all!

[grizzled helm]

Thanks for all ur insight Johnny! Talk later

[vivid cipher]

There are a few possible options listed in the GDD tokenomics. But the lands will produce around 50% of the fuel and the land owners would only be able to swap 10% of what they produce ETH. (10% of 50% = 5% of the total) The other fuel they can’t swap is still added to the FUEL/ETH pool but its the DAO treasury that gets the ETH. The DAO treasury will be producing the other 50% of the total fuel and swapping it into the FUEL/ETH pool as well. The only way to get FUEL would be to swap for it. It wouldn’t be an NFT it’ll be an erc20 token. There will be an ability to swap either ETG or sILV for FUEL

Also… I suspect nothing will be called FUEL. It reads to me like there will be three types of fuel. Each with a different in game purpose. But for discussion of the fuel tokenomics just referring to all of the as FUEL is simpler.

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[slate goblet]

tnx for the explanation... so the vault will produce 50% and deposit it with ETH into the pool and the other 50% will be produced by lands buildings

And from fuel produced by land buildings, 90% the owner must take for himself to use and only 10% he can deposit with ETH into the pool?

when will the 1st auction be?

and it will happen on ETH or IMX?

[vivid cipher]

No. 90% the land owner doesn’t even technically own. The DAO gets it.

[little moon]

Is the land in the land sale representative of land in the main game or is the land only for the minigame?

[small star]

Only the t5 land

[south forge]

Due around 10-12 weeks

[dense cipher]

This going to be crazy

[lunar current]

land owner will get eth?

[ivory vine]

Please read the two GDDs pinned in this channel as well as the proposal in #📰〕governance-news 🙂

[dense cipher]

Fuel

[lunar current]

another token

strange thing is that their main token will be not use in the game

[south forge]

Nah, but the use for it is much better

[ivory vine]

That's not strange, that is a important and reasonable factor of the entire tokenomics, especially in a DAO that comes with 100% Revenue Distribution 🙂 For more about the ILV token though, please use #💰〕token thanks 🙂

[dense cipher]

ILV is the main token and it s for governance purposes plus revdis from staking #💰〕token

[lunar current]

do we need to build anything on the land ourselves?

[dense cipher]

If you get one yes

[ivory vine]

Again, read the GDDs pinned in this channel. There is a ton of info in there about what the mini-game is supposed to look like 🙂

[brazen zinc]

I must note how amazingly patient all mods are with answering the same questions over and over again !! There is so much information available in whitepapers, GDDs etc a huge amount of questions just require a bit of time and effort of research

[timid basin]

Anyone know the approx price of the cheapest land in sILV or in ETH value??? (Cos its dutch auction, so the price it starts at is the highest, if no one buys it it gets cheaper over time until it is bought…. So what is that highest starting price for the different tiers of land or has this yet to be announced)

[ivory vine]

Starting prices have not been disclosed yet 🙂

[brazen zinc]

There has been no announcement yet

[timid basin]

Thanks guys

[timid basin]

Theoretically, if you were to speculate, (in full understanding your answer may be incorrect and NFA), what would you speculate the range of floor price of land might be (theoretical guestimatiom)

[ivory vine]

I really don't put any energy into considering this. Just waiting to see what happens. Only thing I can say is that I expect T5 to be high six figures if not even straight up seven figures 🙂

[slow cedar]

There was initial talk by Aaron which I seem to remember mentioning $1000 and t1 lands in conjunction. Since then a lot has changed (including making it a Dutch auction!) Once we know the rough value of fuel, and how much fuel a land can produce after a few months, we can calculate some ROI formulae and go into the auction with at least some sensible prices in mind. Until then it's plucking numbers out the sky

[timid basin]

Thx

[bitter glade]

$1000 for T1 was just a spitballing idea that we have since moved on from. We'll see what happens. Still a lot of time before the sale goes live.

[slow cedar]

Are you planning on buying any land Aaron? If so what tier are you hoping to grab?

[wary nexus]

for land sales,is it possible to buy it with silv or only eth?

[ivory vine]

It is ETH or sILV (a combination of both still needs to be looked into). Please check the actual proposal for it in #📰〕governance-news for more info 🙂

[fierce glen]

I remember seeing somewhere that land can also be used cosmetically, is that still on the table?

[slow cedar]

I'm going to print a picture of mine on a t-shirt so when I go out clubbing all the girls know I'm a good catch. Is that what you meant?

[wary nexus]

okay thank you for the response

[fierce glen]

Haha no but sounds like a fun idea. Just referring to T-0 zones not being able to farm resources, the land must have some value to the holder which brought me to think they'll have cosmetic home designs potentially.

[slow cedar]

I've got to admit I've not heard that at all and I tend to loiter in this channel a lot. T0 is essentially the 'play for fun' version, or test set ups for land you buy. T1 - T5 is all about generating things (blueprints, fuel etc)

[bitter glade]

I don't have any money not tied up in the game. So I won't be able to get any. But that's ok, more land for everyone else.

[slow cedar]

Aww man. Makes me glad I can take sILV or I'd be in the same situation

[fierce glen]

Gotcha, ok I'll see if I can track it down, thought it was apart of the first proposal

[fierce glen]

Ah I found it, "beautiful layouts" from pinned messages, was curious if that'll still be a thing and how in depth

[slow cedar]

Ahhh, I think that just relates to creating pretty layouts. Have some nice holo statues of Illuvials, place the buildings in less efficient but more visually pleasing layouts etc

[fierce glen]

Gotcha, yeah excited to see what that side will hold for us.

[covert surge]

Quick question I have been reading the gdd this morning, I’m curious on land sales - let’s say I can’t afford to buy a whole T1 myself will there be like a pool/split revenue system to share land? I want to stake my coins for some sILV for in-game use and want to potentially use it for land but I have a lower budget

[ivory vine]

There is nothing planned from the DAO itself but you could of course find others and form a DAO within a DAO to buy land together f.x. 🙂

[covert surge]

I see cool thanks!

[slate goblet]

I don't understand, why say 50% of fuel is produced by land buildings if DAO owns 90% of it?
so, 90% of fuel is sold by the DAO and 10% is sold by land owners?

[slate goblet]

it's great! it's separating players who are customers and wanna have fun on the game from investors who wanna profit on the business

[hearty stirrup]

Would be silly to use one token.

[vivid cipher]

I’m pretty sure the tokenomics GDD explains it. Try reading it again if you already have. It’s pinned in here awhile back

[slate goblet]

tnx I'm gonna read it 🙂

[dusk pulsar]

What ROI are you aiming for?

[low dagger]

Where is the information on land? Is there a link?

[vivid cipher]

Yeah. Check pins. There are three documents. 2 GDD one iip

The iip is the proposal Johnny linked to that is pinned

[low dagger]

Much appreciated.

I have ILV staked. Have any new investment opportunities or pre sale Signup appeared other than staking?

[small star]

No

[vivid cipher]

!opensea

[dry forge]

Collectible Illuvium NFTs are already available on Opensea https://opensea.io/assets/illuvium All are limited edition. The emotes and m0z4rt skin NFT's are redeemable in game. Upon use, these NFT's will be burnt when applied in game. This is only true for these emotes, skins, and badges as they were bonuses for the initial ILV token sale.

There are also partner sets of very limited collectible NFT's. Those collectibles are not for in game use, this is so everyone has a fair and balanced start when the game is released. You can find out more here: https://illuvinati.gitbook.io/illuvium-archives/official-nfts

[vivid cipher]

There will be no whitelist for the land

[low dagger]

Good, I appreciate the info! This is a great community!!

[vivid cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/revolution-final-space-tribore-autobattler-rpg-gif-22423184

[ivory vine]

https://gfycat.com/gaseouswickedbufflehead

[placid galleon]

after reading the document, it sounds very promising, but there's a couple things I still don't understand, are the 3 main resources considered the fuel which can be used in the other game, also how will the lands be sold I read smth about an auction but it's not really mentioned there

[cinder fractal]

Price will start very high and it will drop until someone buys it, it's good because you don't need to make more than one interaction with blockchain and crazy fees :)

[vivid cipher]

The fuel and the resources aren’t all the same thing if I remember correctly. I think there will be three fuels actually. Each with a different in game utility. Crypton, Hyperino, Solons. It's all in the SPOILER GDD aaron posted and is pinned in here.

[wind bolt]

The lands of certain regions are rich in certain resources, does that mean they exclusively have just that resource or could a land have more than one resource type? (Is this what separates t1-t5?)

[primal swallow]

It would be nice if zero had its own token that could converto do ILV in a High rate la 1000x1

[little moon]

Hi thinks there's no need to create more tokens

That's useless

[cinder fractal]

Yep completely unnecessary

[valid saffron]

Hey guys when is the mini game release

[little moon]

10-12 weeks, check pins

[valid saffron]

Lots of pins in lots of places thx for the short quick answer 👍🏻

[hasty haven]

I've heard that ETH and/or sILV being used to purchase land, but has the idea of purchasing land with only sILV been brought up? Doing so would reduce the total supply of ILV and would allow stakers a guaranteed allocation

[ivory vine]

It would not be in the interest of the DAO to limit land purchase to sILV only in my opinion. Way too much potential revenue from ETH purchases that would be ignored there unnecessarily.

[slow cedar]

Loads of options were floated and talked about when the land sale was first announced. Personally after seeing all the arguments I think they found a decent sweet spot. A potential way for heavy investors to get funds to buy the land, and a good inflow of eth for revenue distributions

[merry elm]

Only sILV? Why would you wan to limit land only to few people who can actually generate any meaningful sILV, I don't see how anyone besides few people gain anything out of it. They will use sILV anyway , it is just lose lose situation

[hasty haven]

Probably not limit land to only sILV, but would be interesting if there is actually a incentive for sILV. If its both sILV and ETH, most people would just use ETH so sILV is somewhat irrelevant

[pine ember]

i feel like theres a lil too much detail on some of these illuvials, some times less is more

[merry elm]

it is only relevant to big stakekers either way

[brisk gull]

A lot of people will use sILV imo. Lets say I put all my investment into ILV and I don't have any liquidity left, I would use sILV. Definitely for bigger stakers but still.

[vivid cipher]

I think you are probably onto something.

[vivid cipher]

False. Lots of people used all their ETH to buy ILV and stake it. They don’t have enough ETH to buy land. They have gone all in ILV. So sILV is their only way to get enough liquidity to buy land. To exclude those people that are all in ILV would be a harsh blow to the community. But to have it be a sale for only sILV would similarly reduce potential growth of the community and wipe out any chance for revenue to pay for the development of IZ

[hasty haven]

I'm guessing when the time comes, most people will use ETH though, because that's usually what happens in NFT sales, but we'll see.

[vivid cipher]

If it does then stakers may just be rolling in rev dis. We will be able to sell our rev dis ILV and buy the land with our profits.

Also I’ve never seen a land sale sold for sILV yet.

Lol I don’t know. That’s probably too much hopium.

[cinder fractal]

The thing is noone can know what's going to happen we are living in crazy world where floor price for stupid ape nft is 30eth 😂

I'm not really following must be some even worse shit going for more than that

[hasty haven]

I don't think so

[grizzled helm]

No they arent 🙂

#📰〕governance-news

Check history

[earnest pulsar]

Where is the land going to be located in the game?

[bitter glade]

Lands can have all the sites. There is a natural distribution function we use to create the land procedurally. Then we use a value function to categorise that land into Tier. In this way we can make sure that everything is truly random but also roughly equal inside its tier.

[bitter glade]

In all the regions besides sanctum mesa. However it will not be accessible from travelling. At least not for the first set.

[earnest pulsar]

Will there b a chance of having illuviuals on ur land that only u can catch?

[acoustic vine]

Do you need to purchase a land to travel from tier 0 - tier 1?

[earnest pulsar]

No

[acoustic vine]

do you have any idea how much it cost to travel between lands?

[earnest pulsar]

Not finalised yet but I’ve seen people estimating $50

[grizzled helm]

Less, in the main game probably 15-25$

This can also be adjusted by the DAO through an IIP 🙂

[earnest pulsar]

👆

[acoustic vine]

hmm, okay if I am at tier 0 then I would travel to tier 2 would that be possible? And if I log out on the game would I still be in tier 2 or would I go back to tier 0?

[grizzled helm]

Are we talking about minigame or main game

[acoustic vine]

whats the diff between the two?

[grizzled helm]

Check pinned GDD you are in the mini game channel haha

!read

[dry forge]

Some important sources of information that everyone interested in and/or new to Illuvium should take a careful look at are:

https://docs.illuvium.io/
https://medium.com/illuvium/9-tokenomics-launchpad-and-reward-details-5894c3b356be
https://medium.com/illuvium/28-everything-you-need-to-know-about-staking-ilv-6669594b2fac
https://medium.com/illuvium/29-governance-yield-farming-and-vault-distribution-faq-7327ae7eb507

[grizzled helm]

Also can see the mini game proposal in #📰〕governance-news

[little moon]

Mini games within the main game?😃

[grizzled helm]

Mini game is being built as a city builder, it will be tied to the main game. Please check out the Gdd 🙂

Illuvium Zero- Unity and Mobile

Illuvium main game -Desktop first and Unreal

[ocean igloo]

What's Gdd?

[grizzled helm]

Game Design Document check it out in pinned 🙂

[ocean igloo]

Got it! Thanks

[bitter glade]

No.

[bitter glade]

That doesn't make sense. Land Tier is something that shows the productiveness of the land. You don't 'travel' to it, it's just a rating system.

In all Illuvium titles we use two words to describe power:

Tier - This is the underlying power and rarity of a thing. Think Tier lists that you see online.
Stage - This is a progression system for a 'thing'. So if an Illuviul line has different stages, this shows it progressing. If you have a stage 2 bladed shield Tier 1, that means it's the same shield but just progressed and upgraded. A Tier 2 bladed shield would be a new thing, that is better and rarer.

[wind bolt]

But you will be able to buy lands based on their region correct? And those regions have specific concentrations of resources/fuels? ....also love that you are answering questions here!

[vivid cipher]

The NFT land being discussed here is not a thing to be travelled to and from. It is a separate game from the maingame. But with resources that tie the two games together. And potentially future games as well.

[ocean igloo]

Hi, sorry if this was answered already or I probably missed this question on the pinned post, but when will these lands be available for purchase?

[bitter glade]

Yes to the first, not really to the second.

[vivid cipher]

About 10 weeks from now

[ocean igloo]

THank you kind sirs

[gilded wren]

so what is the benefit of owning lands apart from generating resources/fuels?

[half turtle]

Why does it seem that Tier 3 plots are more productive (more sites and greater output) than Tier 4 plots??

[faint fable]

Tons

[faint fable]

The ability to generate blueprints, create weopons, shards, skins.

[gilded wren]

what is the function of blueprints?

[faint fable]

They can be used to create weopons, armour, skins for illuvials and as an owner you gain a percentage of its use.

[gilded wren]

thanks thanks!

[gilded wren]

like a printer!

[faint fable]

The tier 5 even better, potential advertisement opportunities

Think big like the brand you see at stadiums imagine exchanges paying yearly advetisement fee to have a banner in your stadium

[faint fable]

Fuel/resources also a major win creates unique complex game econimics gonna be interesting the different strategies that can come from it.

[frigid sierra]

Is there timeline to when Land is on sale?

[opal thistle]

10 weeks is what is estimated from what I read 👆

I got a dumb question, did the DAO already voted on the mini game? And the land sale? Is it officially a go or is still pending approval?

[frigid sierra]

It means in September / November thereabout

[opal thistle]

Checking the calendar 10 weeks from now would be the 2nd week of November

[opal thistle]

Sorry never mind already checked the #📯〕council-chambers 😓

[slate goblet]

I'm confused, will higher tier lands produce the same resources and gear just in higher quantity, or will they produce exclusive kinds of resources/gear?

how many T2 lands will be needed to achieve a T3 land production? same for T3>T4

[dreamy lion]

Is Illuvium-zero a different game from Illuvium? Or are they connected somehow?

[copper jetty]

Its a mini-game that some aspects of the game can be connected to the main game illuvium. There are pinned messages here for more information about Illuvium zero

[vivid cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/that-is-the-question-that-is-the-right-question-gif-13658847

My understanding so far is that all the tier 1s combined would be able to produce more than all the tier 2s would be able to. But that still has a wide range of potential ratios.

[vivid cipher]

Resources/fuel will be produced in higher quantity. But it sounds like blueprints will be able to be produced at higher quality. I’d imagine in higher quantity as an option as well. You know, the research trade off.

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[onyx ermine]

What’s GDD stand for

[mortal merlin]

Game design document

[onyx ermine]

Where can I find that for illuvium zero?

[fierce glen]

Pinned messages

[mortal merlin]

First one

[onyx ermine]

I’m so sorry how do I find pinned messages I was trying to figure that out earlier

[fierce glen]

Top right, images of people, pinned messages

[onyx ermine]

But I only figured out how to go to white pages lol

Thank you

[opal thistle]

Awesome!!!!🤩 🤩

[mellow palm]

does everyone one get a chance to get a land for early people 🥺

[slate goblet]

yes it will be open auction

[abstract dock]

Is there a set date for the auction yet?

[slate goblet]

it seems mid november

[vivid cipher]

Everyone will have the chance to pay for one. No whitelist. But there will only be 20,000 lands in the first sale. So I imagine not everyone will be able to get one. But it will be a public Dutch style auction for each of the land NFTs.

[empty lake]

Did you read the pin comment? it shows T1: 1000 T2Uncommon: 250 T3 Rare: 100 T4: 50 and Mythical T5:10 I don't know where did you get that 20000land?

[vivid cipher]

The initial GDD does not have the final numbers. The 20k number is from the newest updated plan. I’ll show you.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/857471213513605140/872697327503163453/IZGDD-Tokenomics.pdf

[empty lake]

oh I see if its 20000 I would have a chance to have a land hopefully they follow the 20k

[vivid cipher]

They will. It has been voted. Plus there will actually be a total of 100k lands. But not in the initial sale. Just 20k in the initial sale.

[low geode]

This is all worse than waiting for Christmas as a child…come on already!

[slate goblet]

yeah it's gonna be 5 auctions with 20K lands each, 1st will be mid november

[dense cipher]

Only 4 more months.. hopefully we can join the closed

Otherwise we just wait 4 months for the open beta

[low geode]

If I was a gambling man I’d say the odds of me being able to pull closed beta would probably be worse than me buying the winning lottery ticket. But I guess that won’t stop me from asking. Good fortune to us both!

[dense cipher]

Yes right we just need to hope… but let’s see which will be the criteria for it to join

Btw the lottery is the worst thing where someone can hope to win… I don’t think anyone has less chances than lottery 😂😂😂

[polar yacht]

will the land sale be on IMX? these NFT drops are typically a mess.

[vivid cipher]

Doesn’t seem likely as it could potentially reduce the amount of interested buyers.

[vocal robin]

Sorry, I have a bit a mess in my brain.
I thought, there will be no whitelisting for the land sale. In the attached document, it says that there is indeed a whitelisting. So will there be a dawnlight white listing or not?

[vivid cipher]

No whitelist

[near whale]

Is the land tradable? Sellable?

[iron adder]

Yes, it'll be an NFT.

[vivid cipher]

Yeah. The structures you create in game, those might be a different story.

[near whale]

Curious if t5 will allow stadium build out. If so curious if tournament profit share is a thing for the land owner

[vivid cipher]

I think that has yet to be clearly defined. But it seems likely. I’d think T5 would offer in game ad space

[near whale]

YGG will likely buy one I assume

[merry elm]

it was just example, there won't be 10 T5 , if nothing has changed , and it for sure will be more than 1000 land

[unreal bobcat]

There are only 7 T5 lands

[hoary wraith]

if the main game is now delayed, is illuvium zero also going to be delayed to synchronize the launches?

[grizzled helm]

I am sure an announcement will be made. Don’t think this will impact the mini game 🙂

[valid canyon]

But the badger’s owners will have opportunity, as I understand

[ivory vine]

No, this was only discussed before. There is no whitelist for badge holders. Check the details of the proposal in #📰〕governance-news 🙂

[valid canyon]

Oh, thanks for info. Then why it everyday deals go through ? What for this badger, just for fun?

[green vale]

Trailer in 7 weeks. Land sales in 9-10 weeks. 🚀

[ivory vine]

The trailer delay might actually work in favour of the land sale, yeah 🙂

[south forge]

This

[vivid cipher]

Yes. Badges can be burnt to an in game account to be used. Purely Cosmetic. Sign of early adopters. Potentially an in game achievement. Deflationary. Badges are older than the minigame idea.

!opensea

[dry forge]

Collectible Illuvium NFTs are already available on Opensea https://opensea.io/assets/illuvium All are limited edition. The emotes and m0z4rt skin NFT's are redeemable in game. Upon use, these NFT's will be burnt when applied in game. This is only true for these emotes, skins, and badges as they were bonuses for the initial ILV token sale.

There are also partner sets of very limited collectible NFT's. Those collectibles are not for in game use, this is so everyone has a fair and balanced start when the game is released. You can find out more here: https://illuvinati.gitbook.io/illuvium-archives/official-nfts

[slow cedar]

So I'm curious now - with the main game delay do we have any news on an IZ delay? And if so a land sale delay? There had been talk of a full wipe to coinside with main game launch initially, and while a 6 week in wipe seemed OK, a 4 month in wipe seems less OK to me...

[wind briar]

#💬〕general message

[slow cedar]

Thanks sheep. Useful info, but the wipe is now a potential big red flag to me. Keen to see how they resolve this (hopefully just scrapping the wipe, or keeping it to where it was and letting players stockpile fuel)

[vivid cipher]

The problem would of course be the ability to have a headstart in the main game. That is why the wipe in the first place. Additionally, why would anyone want to stockpile and save fuel that is not even blockchain integrated. The game changes with blockchain integration. Fuel becomes an actual erc20 token. My recollection is that all of that would happen with the main game release.

But a delay of the maingame could change the timeline for Illuvium zero. We will have to wait and see.

With longer time for maingame players that are stakers to stockpile sILV to buy fuel there might be value in having enough fuel stockpiled to meet the demand upon release.

[slow cedar]

Yeah that's true. But fuel stockpiling isn't so different from eth stockpiling in relation to a 'head start' - I mean yes there are benefits, but we'd all still start equal

[wind briar]

Kind of glad we have more space for these land sales no ?

[vivid cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-fine-fire-burning-gif-17795499

Me stacking sILV

Of course the only fire is H Y P E

[slow cedar]

Back when IZ was first proposed, there was talk of IZ being fully made and released ahead of the main game. What I'd personally love to see is Aaron or Johnny say "you know what, the main game is delayed but IZ' s our proof that missing the deadline was a one off, not something we're going to repeat on all our games" - get IZ made and released on the time line as before, knock it out the PARK, and ensure land have that day 1 use case. That'd set expectations where they deserve to be imo

[cinder fractal]

One thing I'm still confused about if illuvium zero is released 1month before main game release is it going to be possible to collect fuel and to create shards so they can be sold on marketplace or used once when we have open beta or harvesting will be possible only once when we have main game?

Because if we are able to produce fuel upfront and potentially main game can be postponed further let's say q2 2022 that can be a big bonus if you own a land

[brisk gull]

V1.0 is expected before main-game, but v2.0 release is expected alongside the main-game launch. The fuel production is expected to begin with the v2.0, that's why there is going to be a full wipe before that (except NFT and BP).

[vivid cipher]

true but staking ILV works in a similar fashion as well

[slate goblet]

the difference in stockpiling fuel is that we can just leave buildings producing, while ETH requires moving salary money into the game

[cinder fractal]

Yes at this point noone can know for sure what's better to keep all your ilv and to compound or to invest in land both options are going to make passive income which one 2 choose is a big question, my point was that short term value of the land is highly connected to launch of main game

[slate goblet]

well we see they wanna bind fuel production start with the game release

it's still not clear how much of total fuel production will come from lands and how much will come directly from the DAO

[cinder fractal]

Yep definitely we need 2 wait still so many unknowns about the land

[sage birch]

Do we know if when you buy land it can then be sold afterwards?

[vivid cipher]

Yes.

It will be an NFT. It could be sold on Opensea or a number of other things.

[sage birch]

Yeah just wast sure if you had to burn it to then have it apply in game, thanks

[vivid cipher]

No there are only a few things from early on that will need to be burned to use.

!opensea

[dry forge]

Collectible Illuvium NFTs are already available on Opensea https://opensea.io/assets/illuvium All are limited edition. The emotes and m0z4rt skin NFT's are redeemable in game. Upon use, these NFT's will be burnt when applied in game. This is only true for these emotes, skins, and badges as they were bonuses for the initial ILV token sale.

There are also partner sets of very limited collectible NFT's. Those collectibles are not for in game use, this is so everyone has a fair and balanced start when the game is released. You can find out more here: https://illuvinati.gitbook.io/illuvium-archives/official-nfts

[slate goblet]

will we have to spend ETH to make buildings on the land? I had read something about spending ETH to speed up production

[brisk gull]

I think something like that have been mentionned, would be free but you can speed up with ETH. Seems like p2w for me tho. Since there is no p2w in the main game, it would suprise me if they go that way.

[slate goblet]

it'd be a matter of calculating if the fuel price is worth the ETH investment into increasing the production

[vivid cipher]

It’s more like a gamification of staking than a competitive game where someone will be a winner and a loser.

[slate goblet]

but, as we buy a land, after that will we have eternal fuel production without having to spend any more money?

[vivid cipher]

As long as the land doesn’t run out of resources. Which are digital so… yeah I think so.

[slate goblet]

and then, how much fuel would it be? say, how many travels are we able to do with 1 day production from a t3 land?

[vivid cipher]

Yeah it’s gonna be wild

[slate goblet]

so buildings need resources to produce?

[vivid cipher]

In game resources.

But my understanding of the land development is that you would not need to pay for much (maybe nothing but the land) to just keep building away. It’d take several months to ramp up your fuel production that way. But doable.

[slate goblet]

it's lame if we need to keep spending after having bought it

[amber atlas]

you don't need to keep spending to play, but there will be a speedup mechanic as found in most of these games which will apply to structure building and some activities (but not fuel generation or research)

[slate goblet]

so after we buy a land we don't need to spend any more money on it and by making buildings it will produce fuels forever?

if fuel price is high enough we can spend money to speed it up

[amber atlas]

you cant speed up Fuel production directly we think this will make things too hard to manage (from a game balance game economy point of view), you can get to your 'end state' quicker by spending money

[amber atlas]

that is the plan, but we need to be careful of saying 'forever', and any time the community can create a new proposal to change rules that the council may vote for

I certainly don't see that idea changing in the short to medium term

[slate goblet]

yeah let's wait them finish defining how it will be and develop the game

[amber atlas]

them = me

[slate goblet]

are u IZ developer? 😄

[amber atlas]

its my baby, I'm leading the design, and doing a bit of coding to help things get started

[slate goblet]

cool, we all counting on u

[amber atlas]

I think we will come up with something pretty neat, and also a solid base on which we can iterate new features quickly

[slate goblet]

that's the important thing, have a solid base so new features can be developed on without needing to remake it

I had never developed for mobile, I wonder how it must be

[amber atlas]

a lot easier than it used to be, I did some games for the early iPhones and performance was very tricky, now phones are powerful... still need to think about performance, but it doesn't rule your life 🙂

IZ is also 2D (3D rendered down to isometric 2D), which reduces the things you need to think about from a performance perspective

[slate goblet]

cool

I saw some 2D games with neat graphs

[amber atlas]

in any case I need to grab some coffee and get on to some work!

ciao

[brisk gull]

You're right. If the amount to spend to get to your end state faster is worth, I might do it myself then. 😅

[vivid cipher]

I’m basically paraphrasing Aaron and/or Johnny with that statement

[merry elm]

land sale itself is ptw, so who cares about boosting building time , prob wont get any land anyway

[lethal trail]

I love the way everything is evolving. Game, team, community.. so excited 💜

[sharp elk]

It’s interesting. So if you currently stake you can either a) take your interest as ILV tokens, which then start compounding, or you can give that up and take rewards as sILV, which you can use to buy land and start earning a return on that land. So the return on land HAS to be better than the ILV compounding rate, for it to be worth it. You are trading a passive income for an income that requires you to actively play a game. Hmmm

I guess the other factor is that your returns from land aren’t locked, so you can access your money earlier.

[eternal prism]

I am new here and I can’t believe how helpful are all these that I am reading , a big thanks to all of the community!!!

[grizzled helm]

welcome aboard 🙂

[hollow umbra]

hey @eternal prism join the newboys team

[grizzled helm]

not sure if you have read the pinned GDD and some of the conversation around the mini-game but it is rlly amazing 🙂

[hollow umbra]

gonna take a look at it

[vivid cipher]

There is no winning. That’s like saying I will win at playing sim city. It is pay to be able to earn. And pay to be able to earn more sooner.

[merry elm]

I am not complaining, I was just stating facts, winning is just term , it means advantage, it does not mean that you win something, money = faster progression , being ahead

[fathom crest]

These delays are great market will sleep on this now hopefully leaves time for further accumulation during this consolidation period before we start to make a serious move

I have no doubt this will be the number 1 NFTgaming-Metaverse ecosystem that will dominate the space and this market cap will look like a funny period to look back on

But this is a LT outlook - of course

[opal thistle]

Guys if I understood correctly we will also be able to forje skins for the Illuvial correct?

On the land I mean

[merry elm]

As I understand you will be able to get them in land mini game , but they did say they have made some changes on how it will work so .. idk

[queen folio]

Yeah, it's sounding like it-- the scanner on your land plot can scan Illuvials that pass through and you can eventually create blueprints for skins for those Illuvials. At least that's how I interpreted it. Going to read through the GDD again haha

[opal thistle]

Ah ok, I was just reading a text that was here a couple of days ago and stated that it was a building (scanner) thanks @queen folio !!

[vivid cipher]

Ok yeah that’s accurate. My apologies.

[opal thistle]

Yeah I have it open right now and I'm combing through it

[merry elm]

well you for sure will get them trough scanning, but minting them will be bit different now, something to do with how much who erns , who was first etc , not enough data in my brain

[vivid cipher]

The skins for the illuvials will not be a thing right away. The main game team has a hard enough time getting the normal skins done in time.

Blueprints will start as equipment

At least that’s my understanding so far.

[merry elm]

I hope they will not overwork them self , keeping balance is important too , both for quality of game and wellbeing , would not want to be in their place with all the pressure atm and having community input is all great and stuff , but it can seriously .... up their progress if they bounce from one idea to next.

I think it is main reason why delays are comming

[vivid cipher]

Johnny and Aaron are working on ways to make equipment work as blueprints

[opal thistle]

That's good to know, and those gear skins are also part of the blueprint that will be created on lands?

[merry elm]

it is always same price

[opal thistle]

Yes, sILV price is pegged to the price of ILV

?????? I truly did not know that

[merry elm]

well idk why someone would want to sell it cheaper, but in-game price is the same as ILV price

Idk, I dont see why it would be any way else

[opal thistle]

Is this accurate???

[merry elm]

But I do find this very strange , that's for sure , especially such a low price

[opal thistle]

Im going to check it

[vivid cipher]

Exactly. Liquidity is probably very low. Be careful

It is not an official pool that’s for sure. But it could be the correct token.

[brisk gull]

That's to create instant liquidity and such a discount make sense because sILV has no utility yet.

[merry elm]

only some very big players would go to such lenghts

[vivid cipher]

And that’s why you don’t trade with leverage.

https://tenor.com/view/lol-gif-19530356

[brisk gull]

I didn't see it this way, more like an investment, so pay 2 earn in that case. The line between seeing IZ as game vs as an investment is blurry for me. I guess there is two ways of seeing it.

Also, I will probably try to get 1 or more T1, if affordable regarding my budget.

[brisk gull]

I agree, I would not do it myself. Might buy some discounted sILV tho

[merry elm]

If you are serious about land sale , or playing game for sure, why does this stuff happen when I am not ready 😭, I hope they will stick around 😄

[copper jetty]

It does for t1-5 lands

[merry elm]

t1 does not have fuel nodes, there is still way to get fuel in it though

[copper jetty]

Oh yeah sorry hehe

[brisk gull]

1st land sale is 20k lands, so we can guess there will be 5 sales? Maybe you will be able to get some in the following sales.

[merry elm]

I am not that concerned about land, I am sad about not having funds for 150$ sILV 😄 , I am quite certain that land will be out of my reach and , I dont think it will get much cheaper in upcoming sales when there are way more people involved

[brisk gull]

I expect them to be more expensive in the upcoming sales as well, if the ROI is not that good, it might go lower.

As for the sILV, the low liquidity is bothering me and I don't have fiat rn, so we're in the same boat lol.

[merry elm]

Cant catch them all ! 😄 It is fine , would have been nice to have some extra cheap funds four launch though

[copper jetty]

Lol same, not aiming to be able to buy lands haha

[proper matrix]

Any new updates on land prices

[merry elm]

nop

[opal thistle]

Hi, where did you find this discounted sILV? can you share the link?

[humble ether]

^ i'd also like to know

i found an sILV erc-20 token on etherscan but ehh idk could easily be a fake. it is going for 185 on sushiswap right now. idk how to verify it

[obsidian trout]

Should have king-bowser as last buy

[humble ether]

LMAO i actually see it.

[grizzled helm]

!contract

[dry forge]

ILV Token: 0x767fe9edc9e0df98e07454847909b5e959d7ca0e
ETH/ILV SLP Token: 0x6a091a3406e0073c3cd6340122143009adac0eda
sILV Token: 0x398aea1c9ceb7de800284bb399a15e0efe5a9ec2

[humble ether]

oh wow it's actually the real token then. just had to be sure. there's like, 8 other fake illuvium tokens

[merry elm]

lol

[grizzled helm]

if u see legit fakes maybe send them in #🚨❗〕report-scammers so the team can keep an eye on it 🙂

[humble ether]

alright well i hope we'll be able to combined sILV with ETH for them land purchases.

[grizzled helm]

Nothing has been confirmed I think the team is looking into integration for it

[humble ether]

yeah really hope it ends up being a thing. i think it'd be beneficial for long-term stakers as well

[narrow remnant]

Is there a number on how many plots of land will be sold from each tier? Other than the only 7 announced for t5

[cosmic aspen]

no concrete numbers yet

[narrow remnant]

Noted. Thank you

[crimson abyss]

There is a pinned message that speculates a potential distribution if you want a rough informed estimate

[fallow igloo]

How do you find that? And buy it?

[humble ether]

@fallow igloo paste the contract address from sILV into sushiswap. have fun

man all these people buying sILV at a discount in dozens

[fallow igloo]

In the “swap from ETH to sILV” part?

[humble ether]

yeah that way you can trade w/e erc-20 asset you want for sILV

[fallow igloo]

👌

[half turtle]

hey guys I asked this question a week ago and got no response, so ill ask again 😋 : If Land Rarity is determined by outputs, then why do Tier 3 have higher fuel output than Tier 4 plots.. Tier 3 plots also have high resource sites and output, with a fuel variety. how & why are Tier 4 plots rarer? What am I missing; are there more illuvials on tier 4's? @bitter glade

[merry elm]

Everything could change till the time of land sale , T4 has T4 illuvials (not in-game ones) T1 has T1 , t2 -t2 and so on

[slate goblet]

yeah but they need to define how the game will work and make it pretty clear before sale

[merry elm]

they will , we are not even close to beta yet , give them 1-2 months , it should be + - clear by then

[slate goblet]

yeah

[half turtle]

yea I get that! I'm just confused because the information seems to be conflicting. if land tiers are based on outputs, then it would be more reasonable to switch the tier 3 and 4 specifications (as tier 3 is more productive based on the GDD specs)? ..again, unless im misunderstanding something!

[merry elm]

Idk how their system work , it might be that there are different tiers for nodes too , so even though there are less nodes node output is higher , who knows I am just talking bs 😄 Just have to wait and see

[bitter glade]

There are sites for fuel and elements. Fuel sites are more valuable than element sites. Also variety can be seen as better as it gives you access to more options.

Do not worry. Tier 4 land is better than Tier 3.

[amber atlas]

that doc is also a bit out of date

[timber birch]

Will land sales cash be distributed for token holders?

[vivid cipher]

token stakers. But yes. When and how is not clear but yes it will get to stakers.

[static raptor]

Anything been said on timing of the land sale? Just wondering if it will be delayed

[cosmic aspen]

#💬〕general message

[half turtle]

@bitter glade i totally believe you, but it's confusing! from the outside, it looks like T3 is superior in several ways!

Resource Site quantity: High.
Resource Site output : High.
Fuel Site quantity: Medium.
Fuel Site output: Medium.
Fuel Site variety: Low
Unique Landmark: No
Illuvial Tier: 3
Tier 4 - Ultra Rare Land (QTY: 50)
Resource Site quantity: Medium.
Resource Site output : High.
Fuel Site quantity: Medium.
Fuel Site output: Low.
Unique Landmark: No
Illuvial Tier: 4```

With the exception of illuvial level, of course! But cant wait to see more!

[static raptor]

Ty Jeff

[humble ether]

ok curious. whats the most y'all are willing to pay for a T2 or T3 land

[proper matrix]

5-30k

[proper matrix]

You?

[humble ether]

shit like 5k-7k but i dont think i can get a T3 for 7k tbh. feel like with the dutch auction people would pay more if it's around qty of 100

[kindred maple]

what do you think people will be paying for T5 land?

or T4-T5 land

[humble ether]

T5 easily 6-7 figures. im quite sure an esports org is gonna buy one of them. maybe even 8 figs who knows

[kindred maple]

lmao wow

where did you hear that about esports?

[humble ether]

i think i heard it in a few interviews. theyre meant to be used for huge esports tournaments

[kindred maple]

makes sense then

[little wagon]

I will decide which land tier I want to purchase once it is clear what each tier will produce or the advantages of having the higher tier land,....... for example if a tier 4 land produces the same as 20 tier 2 or 10 tier3 lands, then I might go for that tier4,.... But when combining different lands give me other benefits, then I might go for the lower tiers,.... To much puzzled and unclear in my head at this stage lol.

[little moon]

Do you buy land with silv, does it generate any revenue, how much it costs and when does it release?

[little wagon]

yes (but also with eth),yes, it is a dutch auction starting high and lowering the price over time, so not known yet, land sale in 10-12 weeks, game release around end of the year

[wispy fulcrum]

Now push back to q1 of next year right? Based on the latest announcement.

[woeful narwhal]

That's for main game. I'm not sure about mini game

[odd furnace]

The mini game land sale will still be this year

[sharp galleon]

around 8-9 weeks now

[odd furnace]

yea so still a long way but it will be round mid Nov

[ebon blaze]

can you buy land with eth?

[odd furnace]

yes

[odd furnace]

you will be able to with both sILV and eth

[sharp galleon]

I think this sell will be massive with trailer coming 1-2 weeks before landsale

[sour kraken]

in your opinion, how much the cost of land?

[odd furnace]

Are we talking about per tier ??

Like cost per tier?

I think tier 4 will go for anything between 20k-50k USD tier3 will be between 10k-20k tier 2 5k-10k tier 1 1k-5k

[copper jetty]

i wish these prices will be in philippine peso lol. but yea sadly need to pass on lands

[placid galleon]

Ppl will decide the prices

[odd furnace]

true they will cause it will be a dutch auction but in the new changes they have also given staker the opportunity to get a hold of tier1 at round $1000 dollar so i dont think it will go below that tbh. But this is always up for change

[dreamy lion]

Since i am seeing lots of discussions about land sales, when does it start? Has a date been decided recently and i am missing something? 😅

[ivory bough]

It'll probably be in November

[odd furnace]

^

[indigo parcel]

Hello guys! Do we have any idea of how much a land is gonna cost? Do we know if SILV accumulated in the stake will be enabled to use? Are we going to be able to combine ETH with our SILV to get it?

Saw the answers above, thanksss

Is there going to be a whitelist for the land sales?

[odd furnace]

i do not believe so other than maybe on teir 1 land

[slate goblet]

we need to know much fuel will cost for a travel, how much fuel a land will produce, how many lands will there be, how much fuel the DAO will produce... it's crazy to see ppl willing to pay 10K USD on a game asset without even knowing its worth

sadly cryptocurrency is full of whales who have no idea what to do with their money

[livid kestrel]

how many lands each tier would be published?

[cinder fractal]

If you are not in crypto maybe it will be strange but when you see how floor price for some stupid ape pictures is 100k it makes perfect sense

[slate goblet]

on the contrary, it shows exactly how they have no idea what to do with their money

but in ur example, buying a ape pic for 10K affects nobody else, so it's the buyer issue, but when whales overpay for a game land that produces resources used by players, players can't buy the land and the resource goes expensive too

[cinder fractal]

It's not going to have huge effect at least not long term because if they have 10% of all resources and that's affecting game play it can be reduced by council

[slate goblet]

council changing rules is also bad, because land owners buy "expecting" an income/month and then it's reduced

[gilded wren]

And all profits in game went to stakers 😇 good good

[slate goblet]

whales = stakers != players

[cinder fractal]

Kieran said how it's never going to be fixed % it can start with 10% but months later it can be 5% so I'm pretty sure whales will be aware of that risk

At the end that's decentralization some people will complain but they will need to live with council decisions or they can choose to leave our project

It's not possible to make perfect system where everyone is going to be happy

[odd furnace]

tbh we wont know till the date of the auction but all im saying is that is what i think the price will be going for

[slate goblet]

yeah let's wait they publish the final numbers to make calcs

it's troubling if most fuel is produced by some hundreds whales and they force fuel price up, it's also troubling if after auctions the rules are changed and most fuel is produced by the DAO under fixed price

[brisk gull]

Since the fuel from lands is only a fairly small % of fuel supply, it wont get that much expensive even if whales overpay lands.

[brisk gull]

The DAO is already set to produce the majority of the fuel to counter that situation.

[cinder fractal]

Exactly in worst case scenario whales can control 10% of all fuel that's not enough for price manipulation and in reality they will have less than 10%

[brisk gull]

That's what I think as well.

[cinder fractal]

Unless they higher milion players from India to play for them and harvest everything from the main game 😂

[odd furnace]

what you need to understand is even if you just own a tier 1 land it is still a very good investment. what you need to think of is the expansion of buildings meaning ppl will need more land meaning your tier 1 lands price will go up as well

this whole method that they have brought in is a very good way to show even if you have a tier 1 land you will still make profit on it

if you were to sell your land of course

[slate goblet]

I heard that too, that 50% fuel will be produced directly by the DAO, and from that other 50% produced by lands buildings 90% will be owned by the DAO too, so only 10% of whole fuel produced will be owned by all land owners

[slate goblet]

how good investment relies on how much passive income it generates and how much u're able to sell it compared to how much u bought :p I don't have these info so no I don't understand it's a very good investment :p

[odd furnace]

so go read teh GDD and in there is the piece of expansion of building and in so needing of more land to do so. So i think the land is very much worht buying

[cinder fractal]

I would completely agree with you if we are not talking about nft game :)

Like you said so many people around with so much money and they don't know where to invest for me that's enough to buy land early even if I don't have all the numbers

[vivid cipher]

So 50:50 production and 10:90 ownership and this is the tricky point that one of the tokenomics ideas made 50:50 control.

So even if the land owners only own 10:90 they control 50:50. Essentially they control WHEN and how 1/2 the fuel hits the market.

[slate goblet]

that's what I understood too, they're able to control how much fuel is produced under 50% production but their revenue is over only 10%

their revenue and also the fuel they can use for traveling too

[vivid cipher]

Team will of course keep working on then balance before everything is live anyways.

[cinder fractal]

If this is the case than it's possible to manipulate the price but not all whales are going to work together so If price is good they will sell for profit and from my experience whales are not looking for unrealistic returns because they are heavily invested

Even once when we have all the numbers it's not going to be possible to predict the future we will need to wait and to see what's going to happen

[slate goblet]

yeah if rules are heavily changed after auctions then land owners may either profit a lot or lose a lot of money

how much 1 unit of fuel will be priced on marketplace, and how many units of fuel is a T3 land able to produce?

I doubt whales would be able to organize to control market prices

many land owners will wanna take their fuel share to fuel their travels, so how many travels is a T3 land able to fuel with 1 day production?

[small star]

I also don’t understand this “only 100k land, it’s rare, let’s buy for 10k” when maybe you’ll need 10 years to make your money back. But as it’s also said, it’s NFT and lot of people have no idea what rentability means…. Making price stupid high.

But the land don’t only produce fuel. They produce blue print … that’ll be difficult to value.

[odd furnace]

true but land also gives you resource that you can use ingame so that has a value to it too.

[slate goblet]

there will be 5 auctions, the 1st one of course will have highest risk, buyers may lose money or maybe next auctions will have tons of interest and all 20K lands be bought in a few minutes under insane gas cost

let's remember that auction will start at a top price which will decrease if there's no interest, so during auction there's no chance the price will skyrocket

[odd furnace]

it can be bought with eth si the gas cost wont be that high i believe

will have to wait and see what happens but i will for sure get land

[slate goblet]

if 50% or 90% of all land production is sold by the DAO under fixed price, maybe land owners will have that price as their roof

so we need to calc
bought price / (resource amount per day * roof resource price) = ROI in days

maybe it's more worth to buy illuvials on market place and sell later than to buy land and sell its resources to illuvial hunters 😄

[odd furnace]

yea i will be doing that too closer to the time

[slow cedar]

I'm still hoping we get some official clarification on if IZ is delayed or not, and how the wipe will now happen. This silence on it seems ominous, and it's impacting our claim decisions

[thin wolf]

Pretty much described opec:-)

[dusk pulsar]

What Roi are you aiming for? Or is this still too early to have an indication

[grizzled helm]

way to early lol

[sage tree]

Can't wait to buy some land

[grizzled helm]

Same haha

[brisk gull]

Aaron said it was progressing nicely except the art portion which will be fixed really soon. Did not mention any delay.

[green vale]

From here #💬〕general message

[slate goblet]

it seems all buildings and resources will be wiped when main game open beta is released

[mortal latch]

Sure its been asked before but what are people thinking T1 land will cost

[slate goblet]

yeah and how much resource they produce

[mortal latch]

Just trying to debate whether to claim ilv rewards or claim it as silv to try and get land

[minor steeple]

I've read that resources will be wiped but buildings will not @slate goblet

[slow cedar]

That was the case when there was a small gap between IZ launch and main game launch, but is it still the case now it's months between them?

[slate goblet]

I had read that only ownership won't be wiped

it's not clear if buildings will be NFT, or properties of the land NFT

I read that we don't need to pay to build buildings, we may pay to speed up production

[craggy basin]

guys can someone send me the link to the leaked white paper of 18 pages that it has some images of how the land is going to work, and the machinery

[ivory bough]

you can find all the documents in the pinned messages here

[ancient olive]

Hey guys I'm creating an Illuvium news and tools website and looking for contributors. Please DM me if interested. I want someone to focus on land content also.

[timid basin]

similar sentiment to what you're saying... I feel like it would be super helpful is we could receive an indication of starting prices of the dutch auction for the different tiers of land to help us in determining how much sILV to be claiming approx in preperation, cos at this point its semi guesswork (i do obvi also appreciate its far off the time still but would help if we can get at least approx figures)

[cosmic aspen]

(replying here)
the prices will all start at an amount no one will likely ever pay
then they will come down automatically until someone buys

the buyers will determine the price

[humble ether]

land will be owned as an nft right, so technically would be resellable on illuviDEX?

[cosmic aspen]

yes

and of course on ETH mainnet as well since the illuvidex may not be out yet - considering the first land sale will happen a bit before main game launch

[pulsar carbon]

How are NFT's actually stored in the technical sense, anyway? Is each NFT a separate contract, or is there a contract that effectively serves as their database?

[slate goblet]

there's a contract that rules the NFTs and mints them, each NFT is a data with ID and its attributes

[pulsar carbon]

Good to know, thanks!

[narrow remnant]

Whats the new estimated time for land sale and official release?

[spice mica]

Land can also be purchased via ETH no? Or only sILV?

[ember hill]

The latest plan was to allow either ETH or sILV to be used. This could be updated, but folks seem to be running under that assumption now

[spice mica]

Thanks! Wait and see for now I guess.

[vivid cipher]

This is from the officially voted proposal. It is the official plan. Any changes would need to be voted on.

“Payment

Both ETH and sILV will be used as payment methods for land. While sILV will not attract external revenue, it will incentivize current token holders to claim their yield tokens as sILV. This phenomenon will massively reduce the total supply of ILV long term.

Note: It is unclear yet if hybrid purchases can be made (sILV + ETH in one transaction)”

[spice mica]

Thanks for the clarification.

[junior depot]

Will there be a delay with the pre-selling of land?

[uneven dawn]

I am sure you are all on it, but it will be great to eventually see the ILV land on https://meetparcel.com/explorer !

[little moon]

Just read both the pinned documents, this shit sounds amazing. Has there been any further updates since then?

Would be amazing if part of the land sale was sILV only, reduces ILV supply and increases my chances of getting tier 2-3 land

[little moon]

Dont forget any ETH from the land sale goes into revenue distributions.

[little moon]

Yeah but less ILV supply means more revenue distributions later on

Wouldn't mind sacrificing some rev dis in the short term if it results in more sILV being claimed

[polar yacht]

I see your point, but that would then exclude ETH whales from buying t5 land because they are not able to trade for sILV. Accepting ETH and sILV brings in much more value.

[little moon]

Could make it sILV only for a small portion of the tier 1-3 land just so it incentivises people to claim and use sILV and it gives those who've staked their ILV an opportunity to grab some land with less competition

Leaves tier 4 and tier 5 for the whales

[polar yacht]

perhaps could consider giving people paying with sILV a 5-10% discount.

Haven't thought the implications of this through though (
more sILV minting).

[little moon]

Yea something like this would be nice

[vivid cipher]

No worries. Over 7k sILV already been claimed. And much more is waiting to be claimed. I guarantee it. #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[brisk gull]

Imagine if bots would buy all lands at the starting price how much RevDis that would make 😆

[small star]

I dont think there is the need of locking. I strongly believe something like that will happens anyway

[earnest haven]

Is sILV supposed to be pegged to ILV?

[cosmic aspen]

yes, it will be pegged to the value of ILV for land and in-game purchases

[vivid cipher]

It’s not globally pegged. It’s like a gift card or gift certificate for use in game and for the Land sale. It will be accepted at the price of ILV

[earnest haven]

Oh cool that sounds good then! Do we have an indication for land pricing as of yet?

[cosmic aspen]

we won't know even if they told us the start price as the price will start incredibly high and reduce until someone buys

so the prices will all be set by the buyers themselves

[earnest haven]

Oh interesting, is that some sort of dutch auction process then?

[cosmic aspen]

exactly that

and each piece of land will be for sale individually, so you know what you'll be buying. not just "i'm buying 1 piece of tier 1 land"

[earnest haven]

Oh that's quite interesting then! Is there a timeline or ETA date for this sale?

[cosmic aspen]

not at the moment

[cosmic aspen]

#💬〕general message