🎮〕illuvium-zero

[narrow oasis]

not a bonus

[placid finch]

then?

what is it?

[narrow oasis]

10% of the revenue that has been put aside

[placid finch]

so why they say bonus

u sure this is not a rug?

lol

they giving our own money back and calling it a bonus

[broken roost]

thats if they launch zero, if not we get nothing

[placid finch]

no airdrops?

[sage bough]

Maybe my reading comprehension has gone to shit and I should go back to eating crayons, but If I'm reading it correctly, IIP will pay out double for owners that are playing their plots during beta. Instead of 5% of all fuel sales adjusted to land tier, it's 10% of fuel sales that you generate. Which actually works out to more than 2x when you account for unplayed lands. T1 owners also win as they get some time to get up to speed (it takes about a month to max a T1 playing daily). The ones who lose out are those sitting on lands and not playing, they won't see any revenue until launch when the standard 5% kicks in.

[narrow oasis]

Myself and others made the same reading mistake. It probaly doesn't help that the proposal uses terms such as "bonus". It is not a bonus. The 10% is only how the held revenue gets to be distributed afterwards based on playing. That IIP doesn't add any revenue to the 5% that was set.

[sage bough]

Sure, understood, and it was a bad word choice. But still seems like a land owner who is playing is going to earn more than double under this new IIP.

At least for the beta period, or until the bonus pool runs out.

[narrow oasis]

Nope, not more. Still 5%.

[sage bough]

Alright I'll go back to my crayons now 🖍️

[narrow oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/coloring-crayon-crayola-gif-5359564

[fallow lily]

NGL the loyalty airdrop is a big nice gesture to this community that has been here for the long haul

Though I have not been super active here on Discord until lately, I have been playing the game on and off over the past two years

This is a nice gesture from the team, Thanks to the team! This is appreciated

[lost walrus]

not about gaming but staking and spending money :p

[fallow lily]

huh?

[fallow lily]

Ah yes, I see what you mean. Thankfully I have ILV staked and own land, but I did mistakenly assume this included play time in some capacity 🙂

Though there are rewards for playtime (during this upcoming beta)

That is where my confusion came in

[lost walrus]

I own land myself but never staked. Not experienced enough in crypto so did not risk it

[tardy falcon]

What if these were all done with different wallets /:

[lost walrus]

get an amount on each I guess

[pearl marten]

Yep same case here...

[tardy falcon]

So we don't have to do anything? It's all snapshot?

[radiant sky]

looks like

funny how in staking holding time matters, but with land it doesn't.
not brave enough to ask, i guess i can't handle the answer.

[fallow lily]

Thoughts?

Not sure if this is final though

[pearl marten]

Even if you ask ... the answer will be redirected/deflected somehow

[radiant sky]

😄 or just straight forward ignored

[radiant sky]

most likely not final

[pearl marten]

so 1 solon would be about 2 cents 😄

seems about right .. ROI 5+ years 😄

[fallow lily]

😄

[pearl marten]

well i asked..

let's see now

[weary bluff]

its not

its a joke

[radiant sky]

me2 and i actually got an answer

https://tenor.com/view/chris-pratt-andy-dwyer-omg-shocked-face-meme-gif-25585329

[pearl marten]

I saw .. i didn't went for the direct approach thiss time ... i wanted to get there via the 'OTC deals' question 😄

[fossil musk]

Illuvitars and land: amount spent? What does it mean, amount of time spent or amount of lands bought

[fallow lily]

purchased, not time spent

[tardy falcon]

So an order to sell 50 crypton would cost 20 bucks? 1 dollar for seller, 19 for dao… for total of 1000 crypton?

T4 plot produce around what 5-10k fuel@per day maxed? So like $5-10/day fuel sales?

Seems accurate

[fallow lily]

Time spent playing will be accounted for during the beta

[fallow lily]

I am finally getting to the point of maxing out one of my land plots to accurately calculate the fuel production of my Tier 2 land. Is it really 5-10k fuel per day on a T4?

Did you calculate what it can be on a optimized T2 plot?

[tardy falcon]

It’s been a while since I played… but I remember somewhere in the mid k’s from where I left off I think per day

[fossil musk]

5k fuel for 5$?

[rugged jungle]

You’ll have to throw out any calculations on the alpha math. They’ll adjust based on that data. So, let’s see what private beta looks like before jumping to income calculations. Also, the maximum building level will likely be an evolving thing. I doubt they want everyone maxing their land in 3-6 months then sitting back. Ongoing development will keep interest and activities up.

[fallow lily]

I actually wouldn't mind that. Keeps the game interactive and engaging imo

I agree with you overall

[rugged jungle]

I do too 🤣

[lusty crag]

THIS 👆

[radiant sky]

it actually should get edited (was an old blog apparently).
So it's amount spent and time held... same as in staking if i got it right

[fallow lily]

Sounds right

which is pretty awesome

[pearl marten]

they changed it yes

[fallow lily]

Did they change it again?

I might still need to refresh

Ah yes i needed to refresh

[radiant sky]

lol... looks like they changing it on the go 😄

[fallow lily]

I see it now, its looks like your image now 🙂

[astral tapir]

So i set up an immutable passport to play — how do i link all this to the land in my immutable x wallet via metamask? For land work do i have to play while linked to my metamask/immutable wallet?

[long grove]

Brave warrior. we got ur back!

[radiant sky]

it's a testnet account, you don't need to link a wallet they said.

[gentle grove]

Isn't the beta 4 only like 10k people getting selected

[long grove]

wait so whats the final answer lol. amount spent or amount + time???

[radiant sky]

amount + time

[radiant sky]

yes

[astral tapir]

but what about harvesting fuel etc for my land

[long grove]

does anyone know what will be the criteria for the beta selection?

[long grove]

tear to my eyes since ive been holdin land day 1

[radiant sky]

paid land seems not to be ready for pb4, its just f2p plots

[gentle grove]

Who knows but the majority of the air drop will be from open beta mainnet

[radiant sky]

https://tenor.com/view/empire-i-got-you-brothers-lucious-terrence-howard-gif-4652933

[astral tapir]

So if i own land i do. it need to take any specific action to

[gentle grove]

Think a bunch of people been holding since like day 1

[gentle grove]

Not right now

[pearl marten]

i actually think it's less... under 10k

[radiant sky]

who knows in the end

[pearl marten]

i saw it in a video .. can't remember who said it

i just hope they try to do fair by most and not being only random ... like 1k spots for active people... 1k for creators .. 1k for whatever

and so on

[radiant sky]

no way there are 1k creators 😄 but i get your point

maybe i should sign up for creator program to secure a spot 🤔

[gentle grove]

I think there will be spots allocated to creators

[radiant sky]

for sure

[pearl marten]

i meant ... creators and giveaways for their followers .. you got my point 😄

[radiant sky]

yea totally 😄

[radiant sky]

that's the codes that you will see on open sea for sale you are talking about, right? 😜

[pearl marten]

wait what? 😄

[radiant sky]

forgot to put it into future tense 😄

[gentle grove]

Yeah I hope they don't give codes for creators to giveaway but than again I hope they do because have a few friends that would get codes and i am sure I could snag one

[pearl marten]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-browsing-cute-adorable-gif-15824740

i was already browsing opensea 😄

[radiant sky]

i'm gona snag hopefully some for my friends aswell.
but those giveaways always call multiaccounters on the table to sell th em later on...

the hope is small... but it is here 🙂

[radiant sky]

sorry mate 😄

[gentle grove]

I wouldn't worry about the codes because it's only 20k ilv being airdrop during beta 4

The open beta test is the majority of the airdrop

[radiant sky]

true indeed... but it is more fun to farm airdrops with known faces who know your humor

[gentle grove]

True but just saying if u don't get into pb4 doesn't mean u missed out on the airdrop

[radiant sky]

https://tenor.com/view/yeah-yeah-it-does-jake-peralta-andy-samberg-brooklyn-nine-nine-it-is-gif-22998953

10% of the whole airdrop, right? it's kind of missing out... 😄

[gentle grove]

Yeah but it's better than 50%

[radiant sky]

• the new keyboard you need to buy because you aren't in

[mortal mural]

Damn I read it half an hour ago imma go read it again just in case

[pearl marten]

And not to mention if the points carry on to OB ... you'd have a head start .. although i think it won't be the case

[pearl marten]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-angry-pissed-off-office-throw-gif-17229290

[gentle grove]

Nah I don't get that mad if I didn't get in more of its something to cure my bored from not being able to walk or work again yet

[mortal mural]

I got time held and amount spent

[gentle grove]

Think a ton have that just don't know how the points will be awarded for that

[mortal mural]

Do you guys think it’s possible to get like 1k ilv from airdrop rewards?

So I can be in the 1k+ club

[radiant sky]

unlikely

[pearl marten]

i don't think it's possible

[mortal mural]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-my-god-i-knew-it-eric-cartman-south-park-s16e10-insecurity-gif-23122692

[gentle grove]

Who knows I think land holders that just own land will be lucky to get just 1 ilv

[mortal mural]

On the other hand I’m glad. 1k tokens awarded from playing calls for dump lol

[pearl marten]

Even if you'd be placed 1st on the player leaderboard by the time the major airdrop ends in about 6 months i don't think you can get that much ... maybe 100ILV yes but 1000 very unlikely

[mortal mural]

I ll settle to play 1 f2p land for airdrops. And let smart people decide on what to do on paid plots.

[mortal mural]

100 is still juicy

[gentle grove]

I think land holders will be dicked around and screwed again on air drop it will be keeping up with illuvium screwing us

[mortal mural]

I decided not to complain nor put much thought about it anymore. If it comes down to voting I’ll vote.

It’s too damn complex and delicate matter

[polar cosmos]

Can i check how many points i have in share of 50k ILV now?

[radiant sky]

no, i don't think so.
at least i haven't seen it yet

[polar cosmos]

Hmm, so when can we see it if snapshot already taken 🙂

[viral star]

there shouldnt be points for that just allocation right?

[gentle grove]

There's points based on a few factors

They still haven't released what fuel is going to sell at yet have they

[mortal mural]

Top guard Rail? Not yet

[harsh dew]

Testnet will probably be for testing Fuels demand as well 👀, during 6 months.

[amber atlas]

Hey folks here is the pomised list of f2p vs p2e feature sets and status

Some notable points:

• Basically everything we are doing for f2p is required for p2e/land connected -> we aren't spending time on f2p to the exclusion of p2e.
• UI/UX updates are slow, we have underestimated them.
• Worth noting that we lost Julien the team lead, this was a notable delay that was quite unexpected (this was due to personal reasons which I cannot share, nothing to do with Illuvium or Julien's performance).
• Not in this chart but the testing bar for features, performance, and security on p2e has to be higher. Even if they were dev complete on the same day, p2e would take a bit longer due to this.

I will continue working with Kieran and team to provide updates to questions asked in Town Hall.

[ancient nacelle]

Thanks @amber atlas

[iron laurel]

Thanks for sharing this. Sad to read about Julien. Hope he's OK.

[fervent slate]

Wow, thanks for the info.

[harsh dew]

F2p = ?

[amber atlas]

free to play -> game without blockchain connection that does not require you to own land, but you don't earn ETH from Fuel
(although one day f2p could have some kind of blockchain connection, for now its a simple distinction)

[ancient nacelle]

for anyone interested I've updated my proposal https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1228121146902184037

I have a google doc that you can read through. Any feedback is appreciated.

[paper lance]

quick question. it says in the article that for zero, ilv airdrop will be based on time held AND amount spent? what happens to lands that were minted on a wallet and was then transferred to another wallet for holding until now?? because it will not detect amount spent on it, only time held?

[paper lance]

hello sir, can you clarify above?

[open gulch]

havent followed with IZ recently, when's the game coming out? when can we start getting fuels and selling it?

cant seem to find IZ on roadmap either

[amber atlas]

@left We will need to look at a data or customer support driven solution for detecting legitimate moves. There will need to be pragmatic limits of this (for example if you moved the asset 10 times it probably won't work for you). I can't commit to an exact solution without working through it with the relevant teams.

[mortal smelt]

I came to the party late can anyone fill me in about what zero was discussed please?

[paper lance]

my land moved once. after buying/minting it during the dutch auction sale, i transferred it to another wallet, where it stayed there up until now without any movement or transaction. i mean, it can be verified in the transaction history of the specific land in immutascan, right?

[gritty wave]

bottom line..they are making progress...more than expected but still don't count on launch with OB....some fuel coming, and airdrops listed above, and more land sales but not till prices and demand for land much higher

[paper lance]

pretty sure illuvium knows such action are normal in the space. mint in a burner wallet, then transfer to main wallet. or connect on a different wallet, then transfer to different wallet. i hope this gets addressed @amber atlas .

[placid finch]

I have the exact same scenario I moved My land once to my secure wallet and it’s been there

[placid finch]

My situation is the same like left

I just moved it once

To my main wallet

[paper lance]

yeah, but on the article, with regards to land/zero airdrop, they stated the parameters are amount spent AND time held. which in case, my wallet will not have amount spent

[mortal smelt]

Couldn’t you just add those addresses to the passport?

[paper lance]

who the hell are you?gtfo lol

lol.just say it here.why need dm?your account is new.

i saw you delete your message earlier. why do that?

[vivid cipher]

He wants to scam

Banned them now.

[paper lance]

so, can i use the #❓❓〕support channel for my concern? what do i do about it?

[vivid cipher]

Definitely need to contact support.

[mortal smelt]

I had transferred my lands from my main to a more secure wallet so I just added the addresses to my passport wallet, I hope this is enough for PB4.

[paper lance]

have not checked the passport yet. but i added the wallet that contains my land in there

you mean i also add the land that minted it?

[vivid cipher]

Where did you add them?

[paper lance]

in external wallets tab?

actually i could already see my illuvium assets in inventory

did they auto transferred it in passport or something?

[vivid cipher]

I don’t know. I’ve only just registered using passport on my phone. Not been on a computer yet.

[paper lance]

i see. i did this passport thing months ago because of another game in imx zkevm

[vivid cipher]

So you connected a metamask wallet to your passport wallet somehow on some other website in the past?

I was trying to ask what website

[paper lance]

did not connect to any website, just did this thing.

[vivid cipher]

Ok. Gotcha.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen that on mobile.

[paper lance]

question. will they wipe/reset our progress in zero before the play to airdrop season?

[mortal smelt]

yeah, your mint address and any address that has had your items in it.

[mortal smelt]

another wallet address where i've been playing from since I moved it from my initial wallet.

[vivid cipher]

I know I just said yes… but I guess that is not clear. The wipe will be prior to IZ launches on chain.

[mortal smelt]

I have play times on both wallets

[vivid cipher]

Me too

[mortal smelt]

From what I caught at the tail end of town hall is that employees will also be on the list of PB4 participants, I just want to verify what I heard is correct.

[paper lance]

so for the first part, the test net, if you got chosen you continue your land progress? or this is still the case too on open main?

[vivid cipher]

My guess is nothing for land will change until IZ launches on chain.

[mortal smelt]

Will the version that will be played for PB4 be the same version we land owners have been playing? Or will it have the improvements that was said to have been done?

[blazing ferry]

Any good answers for ILZ in the town hall?

[hearty cradle]

TLDR?

[blazing ferry]

yes plz! YT isn't up yet, may need to wait until tomorrow haha

[silent creek]

In this PB4 it will be possible sell/buy fuel and illuvials?

[blazing ferry]

Should be with test ETH

All on testnet, so you don't get to keep it of course

[silent creek]

understood, even blueprints?

[dreamy cipher]

is there a date when airdrop reward for holding land?

[blazing ferry]

Hmmm, good question. I guess when it comes to F2P land in testnet, I'm not sure if they will use the F2P plots to test fuel exchange and blueprints.....I would guess not. So they really won't be able to do these until P2E zero is out. That would be my assumption anyway

I believe you will still buy fuel, just not from land

[hearty cradle]

TBA

[harsh acorn]

Tholky actually recorded it on his twitch if you don’t want to wait until tomorrow

[random siren]

alpha

[vivid cipher]

@opal thistle “Man of the People”

[random siren]

better than that King Richard fellow

jk Rich me love u

[harsh acorn]

https://tenor.com/view/fall-out-ok-fine-good-gif-12768423

[vivid cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/majeerteen-puntland-gif-20548643

[abstract knot]

Will we get IZ for apple in pb4?

[sudden zinc]

GM! So the email I got regarding PB4 was no scma? It will really come? What to do for it? And what will it mean for the land Owners? Thanks! 🙏

[trim plume]

i just want to clear that, does they will include in the aidrop all players who play in illuv0?

[amber atlas]

One correction, the data I had was wrong for In Game Marketplace Backend (one column in the data I had said Completed another said In Progress ... In Progress is correct status)

[timber sapphire]

#📣〕announcements

I wouldn't trust emails the coming weeks

[pure fable]

all emails are scam basically. just interact with the links in this discord (check if discord got hacked before)

[lethal wyvern]

DMs are scams

Mods and Team members will never DM you.
Never trust advice or links received in DMs.

Beta access, giveaways, and promotions are not given out via DM. Scams are designed to trick you into installing malicious software to gain access to your wallet or to convince you to enter your seed phrase into a website. Never give your private key (12 to 24-word seed phrase) to anyone.

Support is not provided via DMs

Support is handled publicly, or in threads within the Illuvium Discord. People offering support via DM are scammers.

Please follow the instructions pinned in #report-scammers to report bad actors so we can remove them from the server.

[pure fable]

How do you guys feel about the airdrop?
I feel like the 180k ILV airdrop potion that is yet to come is way too big.
Why not reward the early holders and players more?

[harsh dew]

Marketing strategy to bring new players to the count ?

[grizzled remnant]

Well it Will being web3 airdrop Farmers. Not convinced about bringing mainstream players in with that method. Waiting to see marketing with this action...

[sudden zinc]

Mega! Do I also need to register for the first AirDrop as holder of land and staker? Thanks 🙏

[timber sapphire]

I'm not exactly sure but it said they took a snapshot so I don't think you need to do anything for that

[whole spear]

Wow ser

[whole spear]

Hiding in this channel i see

[terse raft]

hii

[ancient nacelle]

The proposal for Training Gyms has now been posted. Your support will be appreciated. https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1229734551006216193

[grand sigil]

So... this samsung partnership... will samsung phone holders get an airdrop?🤣

[hearty cradle]

[atomic cove]

Guys come on more inputs on what you think about land PVP raids
#1228406767944204388 message

[dire herald]

some of the lands have a landmark. can all lands get a landmark? does a landmark help in any way?

[radiant sky]

Only t3,T4,T5 have landmarks

• T3 increase of Max efficiency of a specific Element
• T4 increase of Max efficiency of a specific fuel
• T5 marketing Stuff linked to tournaments, nobody knows how it actually works

[dire herald]

thanks

[heady vault]

Does anyone know if there will be a reset of ilv zero when beta4 starts?

[dire herald]

not sure but i was wondering that also

[covert bear]

have a question about where i can buy land from... i went to the marketplace, apparantly none have been minted yet :/

[placid finch]

you can buy from token trove

as well as the illuvium zero marketplace

for land

[little moon]

https://illuvidex.illuvium.io/zero/land

[snow hatch]

kuromu

[vivid cipher]

I don’t have any more details than this article. https://illuvium.io/news/illuvium-airdrop-season-details I don’t believe it guarantees that all IZ players will get the airdrop. It reads to me like there are points to be earned from playing. Someone that plays for 1 hour/level should not equal the person that plays for 1000 hours/levels.

[vivid cipher]

Never click links from emails. Always just go to the illuvium website that you have bookmarked (or use #🔗〕helpful-links ). There’s a header on the website that invites people to PREREGISTER for pb4

[weary bluff]

i dont understand why this is a thing, there was literally no reason to play any of the games.

we are just looking for ways to screw holders at this point.

u think a dude with 100 plots will play them all every time you decide to reset everything? or to grind for pointless blueprints?

the more i hear, the worse it gets. not sure if any of u notices how many projects fail due to such unreasonable decisions as ilv is making

we are so desperate at this point to achieve anything that we are on the road to burn down ilv from the inside, while dropping some money on outsiders that will never play any more than they should, because there is no play to earn during the airdrop.

[abstract knot]

Havent they said that they would reward especially those players who actually played IZ?

[weary bluff]

i just cannot believe that ppl in charge of multimillion project would have no clue how things work. since the birth of zero ilv team and council have been purposely ignoring our investment and throwing us dust in the eyes.

whats funny is that token holders and council come here and say land is worthless and only contributed 1.4m, but they want another land sale, so they can wash another 70m on the back of unsuspecting people that honestly believe that their investment matters, that land in ilv is a big deal, that ilv will make sure theyll have value.

no. nobody with any kind of say in the matter will ever give value to land, because itll cut token profits. the ONLY way for land to progress is if TOKEN profits.

this project's focus hasnt been games since i first came here. its always been token, sales for profit, token, sales for profit.

[weary bluff]

the question is why would u do that if theres literally no point to play it? none of the holders had any reason to play

i can bet u that 80% of plots werent touched before the snapshot

if we assume that 20% actually grinded for the blueprints

so they just find a way to piss off the rest of the holders

[abstract knot]

Thats why I dont understand that they only reward based on the money spent and the time held. Those 20% that played IZ, gave feedback etc. get nothing

Not even pb4 access 😂

[weary bluff]

back on the first launch of IZ i reached over lvl 1000, but i doubt theyll track that far or that they have the data

so im probably one of those that will not get "playing airdrop"

since then i understood how zero works, there was no point for me to play at all

and there wont be on release as well

they trying to make holders play and pay for fuel, but thats not happening. i heard some number 180k ilv airdrop, split that to a million bots, there will be no reason to grind this airdrop , especially if its with vesting or over long period of time

and the impact of such a small airdrop will be worse than they think, check $BLOCK , check $SHARK

only negativity around their small airdrops

it is no benefit to do such small airdrop

[abstract knot]

I bought two Lands on the landsale back in 2022 it was I think. Since then I just got dissapointed

[weary bluff]

same, didnt sleep for 3 days to manage to buy t1 : D

[abstract knot]

I got 2 t2

[tardy falcon]

The biggest problem is the sell pressure on the token that massive airdrops will bring. To relieve sell pressure a vesting period has beem talked about. Sounds like that hasn't been set, or maybe it has, idk.

[weary bluff]

i cant be the only one that thinks airdrop without play to earn is pointless to do

i also believe the airdrop is too small, we would need like 500k ilv to do proper airdrop for this space if we dont want to take fud damage and only token damage. the other option is to get fudded for giving basically nothing to farmers and still take token damage. the conditions are too stupid or atleast what i hear being suggested.

[covert bear]

i agree in that the airdrop is not "Too Big" as some people were concerned about... at least in respect to ilv value:market cap

i hope the play to earn will evolve but i think it serves it purpose in getting people interested in actually testing the game

just my opinion tho

[abstract knot]

It may serves the purpose in getting people interested in actually testing the game, but if they get treated the same way as landholders were and still get. The game will be dead before IZ is getting launched

[covert bear]

how are landholders being treated?

as far as i can tell landholding gets a better airdrop and first

[swift nexus]

If you ignore everything that BABYCRY | Bulgaria says we good, he is just a bitter guy that complain about every single detail and will twist everything that every person says. We are being treated fairly. I would recommend listening to the latest town hall where the founders talked a lot about Illuvium Zero. They start talking about IZ at minute 50 you can find the link in the general chat

[tardy falcon]

Yah, it's a mixed bag for landholders. I don't think it's as bad as some make it out to be, but it's also not roses and rainbows.

[trim plume]

Alright, so just to clarify, do we start counting the hours once the announcement is posted? or are we also including the hours from previous beta tests?

[abstract knot]

I don't have the time to tell you everything, but the core things that dissapoint me are the promises they made, but didn't fulfill. For example that we would be able to build our land before OB. Now it seems like we are getting IZ a few months after OB and I think it will be postponed even more, because they also told us IZ would be in alpha only 1-2 months after landsale. I think it took more than half a year and since that launch I can't really see any updates or changes to the game. It's just very dissapointing for those who bought at the initial landsale. At the end I'm more mad at myself for not seeing through all the lies and false promises

[covert bear]

that must be very frustrating for you. i remember since forever, that games or studios that were in development often things didnt go as planned and that with enough patience the devs actually came out with great works. I hope it all works out for you in the end

[trim plume]

I also believe in this project, but it's just disheartening that we haven't been able to benefit even a bit from the times we've held onto the landplot. We've had it for such a long time now. Sometimes, I'm also having doubts about whether I should keep going or not because I feel like I've wasted the funds I allocated for this

[lusty crag]

THIS, same bro.

[lusty crag]

Considering that there isn't even an active market we're pretty screwed over.

Neither for beyond nor for land.

LOL @swift nexus - if your closing your eyes in front of reality keep dreaming buddy.

What a kindergarden. I can understand Synix quite well why he left after almost 900 dayz in this Discord - it's impossible having constructive truthful discussions her almost without being shut down by moon callers like @swift nexus

[swift nexus]

Cries and who disagrees is dreaming, seems reasonable

Just sell if you are unhappy, i am happy to buy it and let you be my schoolar for a %

[covert bear]

bro you first on the list for airdrop, active people are getting the first lot

[junior hollow]

i told this guy the same thing over and over again. I think someone is paying him to fud. If I don't like the direction where a project is heading, why would I torture myself and stay in it.

[weary bluff]

none of u is even a holder lol

not sure whos gettin paid to talk stuff that they dont understand

[junior hollow]

i can guarantee you i'm in

[weary bluff]

and i can guarantee u that i have more experience than you and i know what im talkin about

i might be harsh, but its for your own good , if you are actually a holder.

[tardy falcon]

There are other projects that started with big hype and are basically worthless now. I give credit to the team and community for holding it down for this long... Nearly at OB and come a lonnnng ways. I have my issues specifically with zero and other things... but generally I'm still quite positive for Illuvium as a whole. Gotta step away from the trees and see the forest sometimes.

[barren turtle]

The Anti-Solon Converter and The Silicon Converter buildings don’t make a sound when I click them and it’s driving my OCD nuts!😂😂😂. Why those two? All or nothing! OCD SUCKS!!!!

[vivid cipher]

This article https://illuvium.io/news/illuvium-airdrop-season-details describes multiple airdrops, each with their own criteria. The loyalty airdrop counts past participation (though technically not game play time).

Airdrop 1 : “PB4 beginning on April 30th & Open Beta Testnet set to start on May 28th. At the end of Open Beta Testnet, airdrop points will be tallied, and everyone who participated in the beta will be airdropped this portion of ILV directly to their IMX Passport wallets.”

[broken roost]

i share this feeling, zero has been quite a disappointment, i regret buying land and investing in this side of the project. Cant say the same about Ow and Arena, those look prety amazing

[mortal smelt]

I just listened to the town hall and there is a difference from Kieran's perspective as a land owner and US as land owners is the fact that we don't have first hand knowledge of what is going on PERIOD.

[broken roost]

#1229857160758952017 message for anyone intrested i wrote a little something

[barren turtle]

AGREE 💯!!! IIP39 took away all urgency and priority away from Zero!!! They could string us along indefinitely.

[broken roost]

at least its clear none of these weeks of discussion would be taking place, because Arena and Overworld could NOT launch withou zero, and viceversa

as it should be, as it was sold to be

[weary bluff]

ive been sayin for a while that council has to step up, we are just wasting time and things will only get worse. there is no options left, we must delay launch and start preparing for that scenario.

[broken roost]

im just pointing the way i think things should be done for the ecosystem to operate as one and avoid division

delaying launch hurts us all at this point

[indigo wave]

Is buying land worth it ?

[spring jetty]

land price dropped again lol

thanks to the delay

[barren turtle]

I think so. Hanging onto my 4 T2’s. It’s getting cheaper, people selling after TH meeting, invest in bull run since we got 3 more months….AT LEAST

[covert bear]

how do i buy land cos i went to the marketplace and said none has been minted

[indigo wave]

3 more months ?

[vivid cipher]

You need to use metamask on the IlluviDex and not IMXpassport on rhe testnet sandbox page.

https://illuvidex.illuvium.io/zero/land

[covert bear]

thanks

[tardy falcon]

I can see the current testnet environment being confusing for new ppl... looks like nothing is on market. Maybe a little note that says, 'Link here for Marketplace' in really big letters.

[abstract knot]

I don’t know how many of you have read the new proposal, but a 10% extra for our fuel sales is way too less. My Idea would be to let landowners produce more once they can finally play and increase the pool by distributing not 5% of sales, but at least 50%. Then when landowners can play they produce more (decreasing over time until we are back at 95% and 5% landholders, speed of decreasing should be dependent on the time the game actually gets launched)and get like 50% more rewards that come out of the pool. I know it’s a bit confusing, but here is an example:

First month we have 10mio in fuel sales: 5mio go into pool

Second month we have 20mio in fuel sales: 10mio go into pool

15mio in pool

Zero gets launched

Third month a player produces 150 instead of 100 solon;
He sells it for 225€ instead of 150€, 75€ come from pool (until depleted);
The dao also sells 150 solon as it’s 50-50

Fourth month the player produces 125 instead of 100 solon;
He sells it for 187,50€ instead of 125€ (still 50% more until pool depleted);
Dao sells 175 solon as it’s now 75 to 25%

And so on until we are back to 95-5%. Numbers could change it’s just an example, but we need better proposals than just 10% more and call it fair

<@&1107754780744487002>

Feel free to ask questions

[tardy falcon]

I don't think it's 10% at all... still 5%. But 10% of pool gets paid out each month... for 10 months. But we would still only get 5% of revenue.

[abstract knot]

I know, I added this intentionally. The proposal is a joke.

[copper falcon]

Hi guys, can mega-city be on only 2 plots side to side, or is it necessary to have 2x2 or 2x3 or 3x3 plots?

[tardy falcon]

So any alternative should be made into a proposal asap

[abstract knot]

In the proposal we still just contribute 5% of the fuel and just get 10% extra.

[tardy falcon]

Yahh I don't think that's gonna fly... but would be nice for landowners

Basically falls into the realm of compensation at the expense of the dao/stakers and overly favors landholders.

I wouldn't support it.... it's not realistic imo

Straight changing 5/95 to 10/90 is realistic though

[pearl marten]

This is the most simple and straightforward thing to do imo also ... 10% for land 90% for DAO

Doesn't imply more work ... testing... implementing or developing other features

[abstract knot]

Simple and effective, I like that idea

[little moon]

I believe it’s only 2x2 and 3x3

[copper falcon]

thanks!

[subtle edge]

Hello, I see that some action is happening.. it is been a while that I havent played.. can we already mint the 15 illuvials from the alpha ?

I have just registered to beta 4.. but it is with IMX account and not ILV account.. Does this change something?

[abstract knot]

Things are happening, but not on your land 😂

[abstract knot]

Btw I think you meant blueprints and not illuvials and this phase is already over. You can buy them on the illuvidex though

[subtle edge]

ops, I missed the minting 😦

that s bad news .. jsut saw that was until February only

it seems that I will need to play again the 1 month to get them done, again xD

any advice on a topic that I would be interested to be aware? I just saw the beta registration ...

[abstract knot]

At the moment there is no value in playing IZ. The only value you may have is fun. That’s the sad truth

[polar cosmos]

You can play now to create the best strategy for make BP or to produce fuels 😉

[abstract knot]

You could do that, my bad

[polar cosmos]

I have 6 lands, 4 for fuels and 2 for search Blueprints

My strategy is OP now xd 😁

[abstract knot]

Another idea for a proposal would be to set the earliest date for the next landsale at a specific time after IZ launch. This isn’t hurting anyone directly and may secure more value for landholders.

Example:
Earliest landsale is 2years after IZ launch

<@&1107754780744487002>

[polar cosmos]

Hmm, great idea, but in my opinion, the next land sale should be when demand for lands is high

There is No high demand right now, we dont know what will be 2 years later

[abstract knot]

But when is demand high enough in your opinion?

[polar cosmos]

When T1 lands price is to high for an average investor/player for example🤷‍♂️😉

[abstract knot]

The only argument I saw is when there’s not enough fuel. But your argument doesn’t make sense to me. It’s like saying there should be more BTC minted when the price is too high for average investors

Either way, Im going to bed now. I would like to get some opinions, ideas and discussions

[polar cosmos]

The problem is in the $ worth. In USA, 10$ is normal, but country where are a lot more players, in thailand for example, these 10$ is life changer amount

[abstract knot]

And still you get the same amount of BTC. I don’t get BTC cheaper if Im using an VPN to go to Thailand, do I?

[teal mural]

It won’t be any rails in the beginning which meant we can come together and price the fuel high in till we get what we want but it has to be reasonable. The true is we have to step away from our feels for a sec and asked for one thing that will help us. If we can get million players for IZ the our value will 🚀 the only thing that can do that is a battle mode. Once they approve an iip for a battle mode we lower the prices

[polar cosmos]

No comment, thanks 🌝

[abstract knot]

I hope I wasn’t to harsh on you, I just don’t see your point

[abstract knot]

Also they could play f2p and invest in the token as much as they can afford

[teal mural]

Shit happens but we are at the finish line and if we do things rite landowners will be okay during the bull market and it will help us if the web3 world know it will be a battle mode for IZ making it super fun and if we can make it so F2P can spend money if they want to speed up their land and a super smell way they can maybe earn $10-30 a month playing ( this should be hard for them to do which mean only 25% of players will actually be able to do it or even better maybe they can be part of our guild and the land owners can pay them to put 1-2 scanners on their land)

[abstract knot]

I like your positivity, unfortunately I have lost mine. I have stayed positive for almost 3 years now and stayed quiet, but now…
gn everyone

[weary bluff]

guys wtf r u doin, its like trying to catch water not to drown. there will be no bull for land owners.

[teal mural]

I been here since before the land sale so as an OG I understand but to give up at the end and to give up when we will finally have the power to make a change is not the way

[weary bluff]

u have no power

and there is nothing to give up

theres no product

wut r u giving up exactly

they simply took 72m not to deliever. theyre making stuff up now, but they cant make up for it. gamemode... when? next bull? the amount of copium here is unbelievable

[lost walrus]

https://tenor.com/view/hug-gif-11734056932374068596

[teal mural]

If a nice amount of players Is playing F2P then they will want to keep them player after the airdrop and the only way is to give them something new and fun like the battle mode

[weary bluff]

lands shouldnt have existed at all, they were not in the plan, they became a thing just cuz its silv2 washing machine. next land sale will be the same. land means nothing, the numbers say it. 1,4m is what its worth to them, basically they almost paid everything back with the 15$ airdrop

[weary bluff]

this is not happening this bull, nobody will play post airdrop as theres no earning, it is pointless to do the airdrop.

[lost walrus]

Damn you are bitter or trying to dump land prices

[teal mural]

For the landowners that are willing to try let’s get together and get an iip pass for a battle mode and maybe @craggy shoal can help us

[craggy shoal]

Like clash of clans style?

[teal mural]

Yeah but with our unique touch. Like we can set on illuviuals on the paths and select with direction ago, so we know what building the defending. Just something that will making more interactive.

If they was to put a team of 15 on this for 4 months we should have something to start with

I’m sure if we all stop complaining about what happened that we don’t like and start trying to find a way to fix things and make it better for ourselves we will get better results ( not saying that the complaints aren’t justified just at it time to move on and fix things)

[craggy shoal]

Just tagged you in a similar idea I had that I made a video on.

I think we need to get more information on what Kieran had in mind for a raiding system. He's mentioned something along those lines and that would need an IIP to implement as well.

[teal mural]

I don’t see the link, imma check it out. ( mostly likely I seen it before lol definitely watch your vids good information for sure ) but after I watch let’s start putting something together. It will help bring together the landowners in an positive mindset by attacking a single mission. Maybe we can set up an meetings in the voice channel for landowners to get together and start discussing some cool features we can add in.

Once we get things goin to it will be easy to add in Kieran and get the information we need from him

[craggy shoal]

I tagged you in #🎨〕community-content

Let me see if I can get any info from Kieran or IMC

[teal mural]

Ok cool!

[high sleet]

I quite like this approach but as Marcin said there is some risk. Land might just be our greatest tool to secure significant bonus runway for the DAO. Now obviously its not worth doing until there is significant demand, but losing that opportunity if it arises is risky.

[weary bluff]

no point of land sales, ilv doesnt make money, its just silv 2 washing machine

we need to find a way to suck money in a different way unfortunately

[high sleet]

In comparison to land sale 1, the sILV2 is basically gone. And will likely be drained shortly after Open Beta launch. So the argument doesn't track.

If sILV2 was the only reason 70m of value was involved in land sale 1 is yet to be seen, we can safely assume it'd be less spent overall for sale 2, but nobody knows for sure how much.

[marsh sage]

Just to be clear, it’s already specified per IIP-39 as 4 months after open beta launch minimum. Which, frankly speaking is a lifetime in Web3 and in gaming. Four months ago no one had ever heard of PalWorld, markets were just getting interested in the BTC ETF, and people were working on their New Year’s Resolutions (RIP gym memberships ).

I do understand some level of concern but if it helps I would point you to unanimous statements by every council and team member that I’ve ever heard speak on the topic that no one supports launching more land plots unless there’s demand for them.

[high sleet]

I wouldn't approve that proposal without doing considerable calcs that makes it worthwhile

And that aint happening anytime soon

[tardy falcon]

In your version of raiding... what is the loss proposition during the attack other than your own plot becoming attackable? Does the landowner get anything from the attacker if the landowner defeats the them?

[craggy shoal]

Id have to think deeper about that, but could be something like 5% of FUEL and 10% of Elements

[tardy falcon]

Maybe they lose a random Illuvial that was part of the attack that can be rehabilitated in a new building... 'Hospital'

[craggy shoal]

Not sure exactly what you mean. But I think after raiding another land the Illuvials that were defeated should have a cool down. Maybe that cool down required putting them into a hospital structure

[tardy falcon]

I mean one of the attackers illuvials goes to the landowner

There has to be some element of risk on both sides

as an attacker, you risk losing one of your illuvials

or more 😈

[teal mural]

Just re listen to it and it good need to add on but this is a great foundation to start on. The part where you said the fuel that the F2P get can only be use to upgrade maybe they can sell 25% of that which would give a great incentive to play a lot and at the the sometime burn the other 75% of fuel they got

[ripe veldt]

hi guys

[teal mural]

And we can use fuel to speed up the healing

[craggy shoal]

That would be too much imo. No one use top tier Illuvials. Would be a game of T0s

[tardy falcon]

Well… the risk of losing fuel is great too

[mortal smelt]

It is so hard to be positive with these hesitant ways they are talking about IZ in the AMA and town halls,

[craggy shoal]

5% of your stored FUEL is most likely not valued too high

[high sleet]

I dont think we need pvp elements at all. But if yall are desperate for it then you guys are way overcomplicating it. You create a side gacha game. The gacha elements of Illuvium Zero are its strongest feature.

So you add systems where you collect these army units and attacking is a way of speeding up this process. At the peak u are sending Rhamphyres into battle. Completely separate from fuel and all that, its just an added feature unrelated to the other features

[craggy shoal]

Thanks. Yeah I think some small amount of earning could be good for F2P

[high sleet]

Gives u all these cosmetic buildings etc

And yeah maybe some ILV earning

[craggy shoal]

Id rather see it turn into more of a full experience than just a gotcha game

[mortal smelt]

5% at what level? maxed out? Without actual numbers everything is just predictions...

Is the 5% fuel that we will be getting, is that at the maxed out level for a single plot? How does the whole 5% work?

[craggy shoal]

We're just brainstorming about a raiding pvp idea for IZ. I was saying if you raided another plot you could steal up to 5% of whats in storage

[high sleet]

The problem is you have 2 genres at odds with each other. You cant copy mavias attack and combat because its fundamentally different in so many ways. Their ruby marketplace isn't attached to their pvp in a meaningful way. You cannot link pvp to fuel properly or the entire system starts to break

[golden spoke]

Personally if I have to track getting raided and possibly losing resources I will just sell my lands and move on. Not sure adding frustrating mechanics for people that don't want to spend 8 hours a day raiding/grinding is the way to go.

[high sleet]

Now do u add a new fuel type? Maybe? But u cant add pvp without adding something new, something additive

[craggy shoal]

Why can't you like FUEL to PvP?

[mortal smelt]

So we could extract from each other before we actually get to build up the plot, I don't know about that.

[high sleet]

Because its real money. Everybody loses.

[high sleet]

Let me play out the scenarios. Give me a sec

[golden spoke]

For every PvP winner there will be a frustrated loser.

[craggy shoal]

This is based off of an idea I made a video about that has a lot more detail. In the idea I said landowners have a permanent shield and as long as they don't attack others no one can ever attack them. So it would be opt in only.

[craggy shoal]

Not really

[high sleet]

1. u can opt in, now everyone who doesnt opt in is at a serious disadvantage and the game becomes bad, you devalue all the promises you have made to them. They either submit to a change in the agreement or lose out.

2. everyone is forced to play, most landowners dont have the time or patience and they bail entirely. This is my ideal scenario but Illuvium Zero is currently designed as a very casual/passive game. You'd be changing that entirely.

3. You opt in but at no advantage to those who love pvp. They would essentially end up with the same amount of fuel. Then why would they opt in? Thats a shit experience.

[teal mural]

Only ppl willing to risk fuel for potential gain will op in

[high sleet]

You cannot have PvP and keep Illuvium Zero the way it is. In every scenario it fundamentally changes and the game breaks entirely. You need to add a non-fuel related reason

[high sleet]

Yes and everyone not opting in now has a seriously raw deal

[craggy shoal]

How so? If you dont opt in you get the game as it is right now.

If you opt in you get to risk being raided to get a chance to raid others

[golden spoke]

What % of the playerbase wants PvP in the first place?

[teal mural]

That’s life no pain no gain and plus they still get the same amount they would get now

[craggy shoal]

Likely every f2p plot because they wont have the incentive of generating FUEL

[high sleet]

Really think about it long term.

I opt in, and I am good at the game, I raid people and get extra fuel. Those players who weren't as good are getting killed and losing all their fuel. Now they opt out, cause why the hell wouldn't they. Eventually no one is left opted in. There can't be only winners, and you've given people the option not to play, so in the end there is no one

[high sleet]

But u cant steal fuel from a F2P plot

[craggy shoal]

So as I mentioned there was a lot more detail in the video I made. It said that the opt in would be for landowners, not the F2P land.

[high sleet]

I'll watch the video, but it does not work

Lol dm me link

[lethal wyvern]

DMs are scams

Mods and Team members will never DM you.
Never trust advice or links received in DMs.

Beta access, giveaways, and promotions are not given out via DM. Scams are designed to trick you into installing malicious software to gain access to your wallet or to convince you to enter your seed phrase into a website. Never give your private key (12 to 24-word seed phrase) to anyone.

Support is not provided via DMs

Support is handled publicly, or in threads within the Illuvium Discord. People offering support via DM are scammers.

Please follow the instructions pinned in #report-scammers to report bad actors so we can remove them from the server.

[high sleet]

I'll make a reaction vid and prove everything wrong maybe 😛

[craggy shoal]

t said that the opt in would be for landowners, not the F2P land.

[mortal smelt]

I liked the training gym idea to give the land more utility towards OW and Arena

[craggy shoal]

Do it haha

@high sleet #🎨〕community-content I just threw it in there

[teal mural]

It’s not that it don’t work it’s just that it has to be made so it’s able to work

[mortal smelt]

The synergy of the interoperable gaming is off because of IZ

[craggy shoal]

Yeah this is definetly not an easy or quick build. Honestly my intial idea was just me thinking about it because thats my kind of fun haha

[teal mural]

I agree and making it fun is the most important part, if we can get millions to play then the whole economic wins.

[high sleet]

Yeah but u cant steal fuel from F2P lol

In my ideal world Illuvium Zero would become everdale. They did coop features really well

No PvP

[teal mural]

No but you do get paid from the fuel that F2P win

[high sleet]

Its supercell

[high sleet]

Then you are getting extra than those who dont opt in

[teal mural]

And you also get less if you lose the battle

[high sleet]

It doesn't matter, its not zero sum

Those who opt in get disproportionate fuel to those who dont. And if you are not getting extra you stop opting in. The only remaining players are those getting extra

Which drops the overall earning of everyone else

[teal mural]

Life is about choices and web3 gaming should be no different. If you take risks you will come out on top or bottom

[teal mural]

The amount lost doesn’t have to be a lot where it cripples the land owners

[golden spoke]

But is it fun for the land owners to lose out.

[mortal smelt]

ridiculous and the amount of work that would need to go into that, you are just asking for IZ to be released in 2030 stahp it.

[golden spoke]

To be fair it seems like a big task for the team to make a game that will be enjoyable and popular for f2p and land owners.

There is nothing wrong with trying to figure out new ideas.

[high sleet]

I agree, and I would rather no opting system, everyone has to participate as I said. But to act like this would unaffect existing landowners is untrue

So then why half ass it

[mortal smelt]

New ideas that can be easily implemented works, not a whole new game model which they are already without lead dev and short staffed...

[teal mural]

Hey I’m with you that everyone should participate we only saying op in because some ppl don’t want to lose fuel but I think we can make it so you can’t get attacked in till you reach like lvl 700 and you only would lose 5% and after you lose it’s a cool down

[teal mural]

We will be able to get new dev’s easy soon once the bull market starts

[craggy shoal]

I'm all about options. You wont make everyone happy. Might as well give people the option. They hate the idea of raiding? Okay don't opt in

[mortal smelt]

They told us the news 2 months after the fact...

[high sleet]

That's exactly what I am saying. Not opting in IS losing fuel. That's the issue

Saying there is an 'opt in' is a lie. Its not opt in or opt out, you lose fuel if the system exists

[mortal smelt]

when the game economy actually starts to get going do you think people will want to do the raids with everything else in the game going on? Blueprints, fuel transfer/sale, etc.

[teal mural]

I think the ppl that saying they will opt out now will op in later once they get bored and their land is max out with some much fuel, why not have an little extra fun

[golden spoke]

Will there be an option to play each land about 10 minutes a day, have a few chances at something nice and then play overworld? To me that would be an amazing game that I would keep up with for a few years.

[mortal smelt]

We have fuel now because we cannot use it atm

[craggy shoal]

Maybe, maybe not. But the f2p plots wont have that same incentive so you have to give them something to play for and be excited about.

[craggy shoal]

Simply put, I think there needs to be a PvP element to IZ in order to keep people coming back. (More than the once a day to collect FUEL)

[high sleet]

Neat idea for an Illuvium Zero autobattler btw, it looks fun

[high sleet]

I agree this is important. But I'd say the biodata gacha is enough imo. But yes PvP elements for F2P players would be a big win. But it cant grant fuel to NFT owners

[craggy shoal]

It could be balanced in a way where no additional FUEL is created by f2p, its just transferred around

[golden spoke]

Do you think it may add a barrier of entry as well? Only good/active PvPers will benefit. New people may try, fail, and move on.

[mortal smelt]

It is a shame this was not thought out so close to launching of the games.

[teal mural]

It’s a lot of web3 game that come with the risk of losing assets. This is web3 this is the way

[craggy shoal]

In my idea every f2p land will be in the downline of a landowner and will be able to battle and defend with their illuvials. So the as a f2p player you're incentivized to join the downline of a landowner with good Illuvials

[mortal mural]

I can’t find the video

[mortal smelt]

They are rebranding as Web2 with Web3 access from the town hall

[craggy shoal]

And as a land owner you can recruit these f2p to your downline and make a % of their looting and in-game purchases. Works as a recruiting mechanism too

[craggy shoal]

#🎨〕community-content posted there like an hour ago

[mortal smelt]

so you need illuvials to participate in the pvp?

[craggy shoal]

This was from 8 months ago, but i still think the basic idea holds up. If I re-did it it might look a little different

[high sleet]

Yeah

[craggy shoal]

Yes, they would act as your defense and offense. But these could be T0s and really f2p wouldnt need them as they could use those of the landowner

[mortal smelt]

so what about those who just play land?

[high sleet]

@craggy shoal your system almost works. But you say that an NFT owner can raid a F2P and steal fuel. This is INFLATIONARY. If a F2P player steals the fuel back that is Deflationary.

What happens is you will opt out if u stink. So it removes all the deflationary aspects and leaves u with inflationary

[craggy shoal]

Then they just play land. Don't need to opt in to the raiding play

[teal mural]

Nothing this you just play land

[high sleet]

And yeah your system becomes inflationary 👍

Which isn't hard either cause u can easily find ways to never be attacked, like in Mavia

Excellent creativity with incorporating Illuvials tho, its a really smart idea and I hope its the way they do PvP. Just need to adjust the way fuel is earned if at all

[craggy shoal]

It could be balanced so f2p can generate FUEL, but only enough required to level up buildings. In theory when they get to the point of a maxed out land there will have been no new FUEL produced. I would need to think more about this idea tho

[mortal smelt]

Real question is, in what kind of a time frame can something like this be done, and like a REAL answer not just 6 months which turns into 2 years.

[high sleet]

Not sure if you are understanding

If u can raid a F2P and steal their fuel by using NFT land

U are now making fuel from nothing, its a money printer

Basically my only issue with ur idea

https://tenor.com/view/money-printer-gif-6699448061706491662

Nijafe wants to make an Illuvium Zero money printer brrr

[mortal smelt]

JPOW gtfo

[craggy shoal]

Yes I get that. But as I mentioned it caan be balanced so they can only produce the amount of FUEL required to level up structures. If they continue to play till the land is maxed out it will balance out.

[golden spoke]

F2P fuel and real fuel (The kind you are fighting for)?

[craggy shoal]

FUEL on f2p plots would be in-game only. So if a f2p player raided an fuel from a landowner it gives a deflationary aspect to it

[high sleet]

In not sure how that changes the issue?

[high sleet]

Making 2 versions of fuel is the right way to do it. It's still doesn't work that great cause if u can use f2p fuel to upgrade structures u still giving raiding land a serious advantage but it does eventually become meaningless

[craggy shoal]

If a f2p owner needs FUEL to level up structures and their FUEL gets raided they will have to raid it back in order to upgrade.

[mortal smelt]

would raiding cost anything? is there a cooldown?

target 1 or multiple?

[craggy shoal]

There could be a cost and a cooldown. The cost could add another deflationary aspect to FUEL or maybe it could just be elements

[mortal smelt]

if it was fighting for fuel there would be like a 1 day delay to play, if it were for resources it would be more frequent and prevent the player from building their base. Ideal to do both.

[tardy falcon]

@high sleet I appreciate your take on why it's a bad idea. I can see that there will be a group that just opts out straight away and a group who opt's in (prob me). But thennnn... over time there will be a few winners and lots of losers... making the DAU dwindle to a handful. So then... why put development resources towards something that will not grow but trends down? Any pvp element to zero might just have to be fun to play without risk of loss. Or maybe you gain points and points can go towards rewards of some kind.

No more games that are not fun to play please

[craggy shoal]

Yeah I mean this idea comes from a video I made 8 months ago. I think its a great starting point, but yes things like this could be great additions

[craggy shoal]

@high sleet Just thought of this. What if the f2p plots couldnt make an FUEL and they can only get it through raiding? It would mean that any FUEL that ends up on a F2P plot makes FUEL deflationary. And any FUEL raided back to a land plot originally can from another NFT land plot in the first place. 0 inflation.

[tardy falcon]

Forgive me, but it sounds like landowners would do all the work of farming fuel just to give it to f2p players who raid.

[gentle portal]

illuvium zero is like farmville , just building stuffs. would love illuvium zero later on . ala clash of clans. where in its gonna be attack by our own illuvials.

[high sleet]

But thats just a bad game lol. If ur plan is to incentivise F2P then making a shit game doesnt solve your issue. An interesting solution though and has potential

[junior hollow]

i'd like to see illuvials and armored mechs fight side by side

[craggy shoal]

It being a bad game is just your opinion though haha not fact

[high sleet]

Points and leaderboards is the best answer here for sure. I thought the same.

[high sleet]

Its a good experience for the game to literally be unplayable if you aren't super good at it?

[craggy shoal]

It would be a way to not inflate FUEL. You can raid F2P to get elements and speed up the production of your FUEL

[junior hollow]

but yeah the ILZ needs an armory building, gotta protect your resources

[high sleet]

Well yeah that would work

[craggy shoal]

That’s any game 🤣 there’s are plenty of people who suck at Arena. They can choose to play or not

[high sleet]

Could be a fun differential between F2P and land ownership too

[high sleet]

Let me rephrase it. If you played clash of clans right now. And you had lets say 2 battles a day. If u lose them both u cannot upgrade any buildings at all

Do that a handful of times and u leave

In a game thats designed around slow progression over time, making that progression hard gated makes the game worse

[high sleet]

But this idea would be great. Needs some more massaging but its the overall best way to do the systems you'd like to implement.

Simpler is just do a leaderboard thing like Arena, no opt in or out cause fuel isnt at risk. But u add a new game to play which is fun. Its almost a 5th Illuvium product

[craggy shoal]

It’s hard to make an argument with you when you can’t make up your own mind 🤣
First you say F2P shouldn’t earn FUEL, then you say if they don’t it’s unplayable!

[high sleet]

Unironically this is what Mavia did haha. And now I hate myself every time I boot up the game

[high sleet]

Lol I havent said that.

F2P can raid for fuel, but if thats the only way for them to upgrade their base its unplayable for them

[craggy shoal]

Raiding FUEL doesn’t necessarily have to be a think. I like the idea, but the same concept could work where you can only raid elements.

[junior hollow]

all these arguments about what ILZ should be makes me think we are far from ready

[high sleet]

Raiding elements would be fine too

[high sleet]

I personally think ILZ is fine right now. Everyone is obssessed with PvP but its unneccessary. Not every game needs to be everything

[junior hollow]

me too, PVP can come later, maybe in it's own version

[high sleet]

Yeah I'd rather no PvP until 2025 at the earliest, and even then I dont think its the natural progression of Illuvium Zero

[craggy shoal]

Yeah this is more like just a fun conversation about it. Any PvP is probably a some time away.

[high sleet]

No thats the issue, its in development as far as I am aware.

Kieran got caught up with Mavia

Unironically he doesnt play it anymore. So how sticky is PvP really?

🤣

[craggy shoal]

Didn’t Kieran say it would need to pass council before they start implementing anything?

[tardy falcon]

Raiding is just an idea at this point.

[high sleet]

Dunno, he said in the Town Hall he keeps pushing for features based on other games

And Johnny has said multiple times they r working on Evony raiding, which is the natural progression of Illuvium Zero btw

Anything that utilises the map

Anyways its been a fun chat but I am tired and I've got deadlines

[tardy falcon]

I really like the training gym idea though... less stress more utility

[high sleet]

Land supporting the Illuvium economy is what its designed for. This is an excellent example of adding utility well

People dont have raiding in Farmville... Which has probably generated more revenue than clash of clans

[vivid cipher]

Ha

[ancient nacelle]

You maybe referring to the rehab zone in my training gym proposal😉https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1229734551006216193

[odd pollen]

I want to play Zero and buy land. Do you guys have any suggestions or videos for me to learn from?

[tardy falcon]

I got most of my info from @high sleet videos. Just search illuvium zero scoriox in YT and you'll see a bunch

[odd pollen]

Ok thx

[bitter phoenix]

Check out illuvihub too

[hasty barn]

When buying Land is there a guide regarding the element sites and what they mean

[high sleet]

Did u ever play Pokemon ranch?

[vivid cipher]

This pin may help @odd pollen as well. #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[blazing ferry]

@viral star so moving from https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1229420814986772510

Your issue in Johnny's example is that a buyer can't say I'll take that 2 fuel for $10, but I require 10 bonus fuel instead of the best sales price of 8 bonus fuel, for 12 fuel total?

Basically they need to buy at market price instead of making a limit order

[viral star]

i really don't know what else to say

You're not seeing things from both sides.

[blazing ferry]

You keep saying buyers need to compete on price, but I don't know what that looks like. Give an example of how that would work.

[viral star]

bro like every normal market.

You have to decide if buying ilv at $93.5 is a good idea, and there are 100k other people who are also wondering that.

if you don't buy they might, and you will then have to pay a higher rate.

---

buyers are competing to buy ilv at the best price.

[blazing ferry]

Yeah, it's an order book. Just like fuel will be

[viral star]

but no not if there is a price rail

that is keep price low

and stable

[blazing ferry]

Only difference is that I could open a limit order on ILV and say I want to buy as soon as it hits $92. Can't do that for fuel

[viral star]

for buyers

[blazing ferry]

Right, the goal is to not be at the price rail. Johnny said this

He said it should be evaluated regularly to see if that rail needs to be moved up

[viral star]

No matter where the rail is buyers will not be competing on price.

yes or no?

[blazing ferry]

#1229420814986772510 message

They are competing on price based on how you described it. Instead of wondering if ILV price will go up/down, they will wonder if the amount of bonus fuel will go up/down when buying

[viral star]

they will get different levels of discounts that cost landowners more value yes.

and you think that's a fair system.

where buyers and sellers are on the same footing?

[tardy falcon]

But but but... doesn't it make sense to have a top rail in this system since buyers will pay a fixed dollar amount to buy fuel? If fuel is capped at x amount then the deviation between what buyer pays and what sellers (dao+landowner) get is not too far off.

So I agree it is nothing like a free market system. It's a fixed market where fuel sellers hustle between the lines (0-top rail)

[blazing ferry]

Sellers get everything the buyer pays, what do you mean by deviation?

[noble quest]

Correct

[blazing ferry]

There isn't a real discount, it's just displayed that way when the real price is below the top rail

[viral star]

it's a system where landowners have to compete and offer the best discount on their assets. Meanwhile players don't have to complete and just get the discount for doing nothing.

Why do landowners need to pay this discount when a player was going to pay the market rate?

it's a ton of revenue left on the table for landowners

[blazing ferry]

In your example here #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

I could sell you an ILV for $100 and give you 0.069519 bonus ILV. There's no discount just because I told you that I'm giving you a bonus.

[viral star]

why would you give me free money? if you don't have too

that's literally my point

[blazing ferry]

Oh my goodness! It's not free, you're paying more than one ILV is worth, so I'm giving you extra for free out of your own overpayment

[tardy falcon]

I hear yah. You think it's better to have no market and just have one set price?

[viral star]

okay, so I'm paying the current market rate, and your receiving the full value.

which is what is not happening in our system

[tardy falcon]

It won't be fight for eth... it'll be fight for usdc 😅

[blazing ferry]

It is!

[oak solstice]

Guys i posted an expansion of Kieran's IIP in #1020759212172775464 if u wanna check it out.

[viral star]

landholders are selling BELOW the price players are wiling to pay and forced to compete to give the biggest discount.

it's completely different, you are completely wrong. as sure as I am that there is gravity.

[blazing ferry]

You are falling into the mental trap that we want fuel buyers to fall into. Nothing about the discount aka bonus fuel is real!! It's only in comparison to an arbitrary upper rail, that should ideally never come into effect.

[tardy falcon]

Do u still think it's a good idea for zero?

[hearty cradle]

@amber atlas can we see the discount rate on the Fuel Exchange and maybe a graph?

either discount rate or actual price of fuel in usd

[viral star]

It's completely real because sellers have to compete with each other to sell their fuel.

They are selling more of their hard-earned assets than the rail price

[blazing ferry]

He provided a nice example here #1229420814986772510 message

[viral star]

---

we did not invent anything here. I'm sorry. It's not some magical marketing strategy that gives players free value.

there is a cost. how could there not be

[blazing ferry]

upper rail does not equal market price

[blazing ferry]

There's nothing magical about it, in Johnny's example the market price is $1 per fuel and the buyer pays $10 and gets 10 fuel.

[viral star]

I know the fuel comes from a landowner, who then can not sell it to someone else

costing them money

[blazing ferry]

They chose to sell it at $1 per fuel

They could easily list it in the order book at $2 per fuel

or $50 per fuel

[viral star]

But we covered it's not a free system and it's not a fair system.

buyers do not have to compete on price, they just get the best discount.

sellers have to complete with a max price and offer free fuel to sell ANYTHING

[blazing ferry]

YOU covered that and I disagreed

[viral star]

---

your are wrong and this system is broken

@amber atlas no way you don't see my points

[blazing ferry]

Go back to your ILV example above, it's the same thing. Price is $93.50. That's because someone wants to sell that that price.

[hearty cradle]

I want to see what im getting before i click buy

it doesnt make sense to me not knowing the true price of fuel

[blazing ferry]

That's supposed to be in the UI

This is the whole point of encouraging buyers to buy when demand is low. Buy now and you get X bonus fuel

[viral star]

---

land owners, I tried lmao. we are so screwed

[hearty cradle]

It only shows after u clicked buy

[blazing ferry]

This can't be right. It was not the intention of the whole bonus fuel concept

[hearty cradle]

its basically whats written by johnny

even if theres another prompt for comfirmation

why would i be spending time clicking to find out the price every 5 mins

[bitter phoenix]

My daughter did. Very cute

[blazing ferry]

No, that wouldn't be good. It should be up-front

I can undertand why it might be hard to show if there's a lot of buyers/sellers and fluctuation, but at least an approximation needs to be on the main sales page

[hearty cradle]

the discount is basically a marketing gimmick

[blazing ferry]

yes, it's not real!

[hearty cradle]

its not a discount but it is forcing you to buy more

[blazing ferry]

haha true

[viral star]

landowners are selling their fuel at a discount

it's not a gimmick

[hearty cradle]

it like "50% discount on your 3rd item"

[viral star]

@whole spear we need to add this to the conversation. Does the team actually believe it's a marketing gimmick and that there is no cost to landowners?

[hearty cradle]

to the customer it is
the fuel price is lower but the customers are forced to buy more thinking they get a discount

U still need to spend $10

but u get more

[viral star]

but the landowner is selling more for less

costing them future rev

[blazing ferry]

landowner is never forced to sell more. If you list 5 fuel and someone buys 10 it will take from the next seller too

[hearty cradle]

Example
Fuel is $1
landowners selling at $0.5
i want to buy 10 fuel, i want to spend $5 but the system only allow me to spend $10

i cant sell the fuel back

so im forced to buy 20 fuel

[blazing ferry]

oh boy, sucked him back into this!

[amber atlas]

You could just buy $5 worth seeing the current average price and the orders in the market and you would very likely get 10.

[blazing ferry]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message the amount of bonus fuel will be shown on the main page, before clicking buy, right?

[amber atlas]

Fuel is a commodity it will be moving in large volumes. Also fuel price is expected to be well under $1. The final value is not decided but its more like 1c.

[hearty cradle]

The system is forcing me to take more quantity

[amber atlas]

iExpected Bonus is currently not, I didn't want to confuse the issue with having to mention slippage and so on. But Aaron thought it was better to put it in. If that will change your mind its not a problem as long as people are aware its a guide. You can see that information in the more detailed view.

[hearty cradle]

why cant i buy the quantity i need at lower price?

[amber atlas]

The expecation is Fuel moving very quickly. You always get the lowest price available, but with 100k players who need to buy Fuel all the time, the expectation is the fluctuations will be very small.

[hearty cradle]

i have to do calculation after finding out the discount

[blazing ferry]

My mind doesn't need to change! I do agree with Aaron that it would be best to show up-front, but also understand the challenge with that. Show an approximation instead?

[hearty cradle]

at a certain time the discount is 50%, so if i want 10 fuel i need to enter $5 instead of $10

[amber atlas]

Again the idea was to simplify the buying experience for the non crypo users. But if this is a major sticking point that one change is tiny.

[hearty cradle]

i get distracted, then 5 mins later the discount is 30% so i have to adjust

[amber atlas]

As long as you are okay with some degree of slippage.

[hearty cradle]

is it possible to buy using limit order?

[blazing ferry]

I think most games you might be able to buy like $5, $10, $50 or whatever set options of gems, etc. Don't think you need too much more flexibility

[amber atlas]

We dont have buy orders.

thats what the full on-chain market will bring.

[hearty cradle]

most games have crypto volatility? We buy fuel in eth

[amber atlas]

(I mean technically it is a buy order, but its almost instantly satisfied, and you can't set the price, the price is always the best available with a max of the max fuel price cap)

[hearty cradle]

Fuel price is pegged to usd and bought in eth

[blazing ferry]

ohhh, yeah that does complicate the equation

[viral star]

Why do landowners give a discount?

Why not just pool all the ETH and distribute it based on the fuel generated by each landowner?

[hearty cradle]

When buying fuel, i need to check Fuel discount chart and Eth chart

https://tenor.com/view/calculation-math-hangover-allen-zach-galifianakis-gif-6219070

[amber atlas]

They don't have to, but then it wouldn't be a market at all. It would be even less like what most people want (freemarket).

[viral star]

I'm saying something else

But landowner would get more value for each fuel they produce.

correct?

[amber atlas]

Land holders can't get more value than the Fuel they produce multiplied by the max cap price. But the expectation is that Fuel will sell at lower than this price. The whole point is to set the max at a high value (noting that max cap is not something decided by me).

If fuel is selling at max cap price we will raise max cap price. Yes some small amount of revenue is lost by the DAO and by land holders if this happens, but the COUNCILs view is (presumably) that the max price will encourage more purchases from non-crypto savvy users making up for any small loses where the max cap price is too far off.

[viral star]

---

pure math, which gives landholders more value with the rail set anywhere.

the pool of eth divided by their percentage of fuel generated.

or

landholders bidding to get fills below the rail.

also assume demand is equal in both cases

[hearty cradle]

one more thing
as we know, we can use sILV2 in the game. does the ingame cost in sILV2 use the upper price rail of fuel or the discounted price of fuel?

[viral star]

---

I'm pretty sure that mathematically proves the discount is NOT a market scheme and has a real cost to landowners.

just want to clear that hurdle, please.

[amber atlas]

The pure math is irrelvant, thats like saying pure math does the DAO get more value if it sells 100k Fuel at 1 million dollars per Fuel or 1c per Fuel, the 'pure math' answer is obvious. It is also obviously incorrect.

[viral star]

it is relevant

bc people believe the marketing is real.

[amber atlas]

The view is that the cap eases the user experience therefore increasing the overall volume and spend.

Thus everyone ILV holders and landholders get more.

And again... that decision has nothing to do with me.

[viral star]

but landholders are paying that cost of easy user experience

[amber atlas]

(sorry if I keep repeating that butit seems like I'm getting attacked here)

[amber atlas]

Land holders ALWAYS get 5% of revenue.

If the pure Fuel sales fall behind they will be paid out any missing amount.

same also for non fuel but in-game sales, for example IAP on Play or APp store

We HAVE to have a mechanism to be able to pay land holders fort any missing reenue, and of course this owuld be used if for some reasons Fuel was selling at Max Cap price for any period of time.

[hearty cradle]

if we can revise the ceiling weekly, why do we need a ceiling?
and after the launch hype are we going to lower the ceiling?
a ceiling need to be fixed for a minimum period
maybe what we need is daily automated price rejection system, lets say price cant go higher than 10% per 24 hours

[amber atlas]

I mean 100% for no ceiling and a free market. And the intent is to build such a system on zkEVM or the like (pending formal IIP at some point). However the work has been done, and that change might have notable ramifications.

[viral star]

right but we are talking the total amount of revenue that's possible to earn. not the cut

[amber atlas]

But he councils IIP was made becasue the view is that this cap increases the revenue.

I don't agree, although I don't think anyone can know for sure.

But that, again, once more, definitely not for the last time, is not my decision.

[blazing ferry]

Is it likely the same mechanism in Kieran's https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1229420814986772510 would be used if that passes?

[viral star]

well we agree

[hearty cradle]

if i remember correctly the reason was purely to attract web2 players because they are not used to high volatility, which is true.
they who voted it know that it will reduce overall revenur

Except for vete

[viral star]

people can't sell their assets at a discount and earn the full potential of their revenue, particularly in a one-sided marketplace, where only sellers have to compete.

[amber atlas]

I don't think its so clear that it will. If we make it easier and smoother and simpler it might mean each player spend say 33% less less but we get 2x more players.

Again I'm not in favour of that rail, but I don't think its implausible.

[viral star]

okay then just make fuel about completing to create the most fuel to earn the most eth.

They one side market makes landowner beat eachother up

via undercutting

[amber atlas]

I mean it could be that way, I hate that, I want more free market, more arbitrage opportunity, and so on.

[viral star]

I hate it too

but it's better

[blazing ferry]

You just want fixed pricing?

[amber atlas]

But if the council votes that way then that would be plausible low effort solution.

[viral star]

untill we can go full dex

[viral star]

LET'S DOOO THIS LAND OWNERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blazing ferry]

please no

[hearty cradle]

@amber atlas any info on sILV2?

[blazing ferry]

So if demand falls off, you wouldn't want prices to lower to encourage more buyers?

[amber atlas]

Basically it would mean just throwing away all the pricing part of the Fuel Exchange, it would for sure add delay, but not the same amount of delay as say waiting for a full open zkEVM market.

[viral star]

worth it

landowners need it

[amber atlas]

I mean I think the exchange works way way better than you think.

[hearty cradle]

usually in crypto if price goes lower they FUD the project to the ground

[blazing ferry]

oh yeah, that's right

[hearty cradle]

degens are interesting creature

[viral star]

doesn't matter how well it works, landowners get screwed fighting to give the biggest discount

[amber atlas]

thats only if there's no demand.

[viral star]

more screwed

[amber atlas]

The fix there is so easy, just up the Fuel price of travel/forging/etc.

[blazing ferry]

Or decrease land output

[amber atlas]

(yes)

[viral star]

that's robbing peter to pay paul though, from the land pov

as long as the market is one-sided, landowners are competing to give discounts

[hearty cradle]

can we get a chart of net fuel price (including discount)

[amber atlas]

Thats just not true, IMX offers didn't exist for a long time.

And even now that (offer) system is basically useless.

[hearty cradle]

imx is the worst

blur and magic eden are great marketplace

even opensea pro is good

[amber atlas]

If the overworld players love the game and are travelling and getting stuff and buying Fuel, then there will be demand, OW users can grow, lands can't (at least not without IIP, etc)... Fuel will be sold near cap, sometimes at cap (in that case we up the cap, remembering Land holders always get paid out their 5% in the end)

[hearty cradle]

i havent tried tensor

[amber atlas]

If people don't love the game, and don't play it and wont spend in it, then we are not in a good spot. Regardless of what happens with land/market/cap.

[viral star]

if the land is competing to sell at a discount, that lowers the overall revenue.

especially if it's low price and we make money on small margins

[amber atlas]

No it doesn't, you asssert as fact, what is not. Competing on price may make the game more accessible, encourage more people to play leading to overall revenue increase.

[vivid cipher]

Total revenue is gonna be total revenue.

[viral star]

I mean I'll say it's debatable, but that goes both ways.

if there are a fixed amount of illuvials, then to maximize overall reveune we do want people paying the highest price they are wiling to pay for each illuvial

that is a fact.

[vivid cipher]

Apes will ape. Apes don’t need to pay for over prices fuel. They’ll just buy more fuel.

[vivid cipher]

Welp it’s not a preset amount of illuvials.

[viral star]

okay its the weird number, but in practice there will basically be a fixed amount.

[vivid cipher]

Supply is not exactly relevant when it’s infinite

[amber atlas]

Illuvials get harder to get overtime (as more people get them) but the equation does not approach 0. If it starts at say 1% chance for X per travel it might end at 0.5% per travel.

[viral star]

but in practice

[amber atlas]

Supply of specific Illuvials is not infinite due to sets. But the overall supply would be never ending.

[vivid cipher]

It’s schrodingers supply. Unknowably more until killed.

[viral star]

Okay but the first set, is in practice is finite, and we want to maximize revenue for it

[vivid cipher]

100 failed attempts at $0.01 each is the same as one successful attempt at $1.00 each.

[viral star]

@amber atlas am i in practice wrong about this?

that we want to maximize rev for each illuvial?

[vivid cipher]

Hordes of Grinders will spam runs if runs are cheap.

They won’t do that if that can’t afford it.

[amber atlas]

Sorry in a meeting with data team.

[vivid cipher]

If runs are expensive the few degens will do runs and sell their stuff at high prices.

The value of the items in bulk or at premium prices will likely be similar. Because players will simply spend what they can afford.

Unless the goal is to get people to spend what they can’t afford. And then topple the ponzi on them axie style.

But axie made big revenue so it’s worth it for some huh?

[hearty cradle]

i prefer the later, i dnt want to repeat it 100 times

[vivid cipher]

Stage 3 runs. Fine.

It won’t be failed attempts at launch anyways.

[hearty cradle]

need retail to enter crypto, retail has not yet

they need to see a tiktok video of people making money out of runs

im gonna repost this because im not sure if people understand IIP-49.

2-months delay
the pool size is $4.5m.
Assuming constant total monthly revenue of $40m.
Landowners revenue in month-3 is $40m x 5% = $2m.
The claim of the pool in month-3 is $2m x 10% = $200k
Time to fully claim the pool, $4.5m divided by $200k = 22.5 months

3-months delay
Pool size is $6.5m
Claim $200K/month
Time to fully claim the pool is 32.5 months

Shorter if revenue increase, longer if revenue decrease.

[long tendon]

The claim of the pool in month-3 is $2m x 10% = $200k

So this is where I disagree. Its an assumption that fuel production of all land is linear. Its not. Its going to be a J-curve until every active land is optimized. At the same time, the number of paying DAU might also increase or pop off or worse go down lol

Youll probably need to do a linear inclined line for fuel production and user purchase if you want a more accurate assumption.

[hearty cradle]

If u present a better calculation

The landowners total revenue is capped at 5%, it cant go higher

but ur welcome to present us with a better calculation and numbers

[long tendon]

Im not the one whos presenting something as ultimate truth. Burden is on you to present reliable information to help inform the community that will lead them to vote on proposals affecting it.

[hearty cradle]

burden is on the one writing the IIP

[long tendon]

Should tag @noble quest then ser

[hearty cradle]

i have presented it

in that chat and johnny acknowledged it

kieran original plan was over 6 years

so im totally right

[long tendon]

Not saying that there isnt a problem with the claim period or that it cant be improved. It definitely should be. But I would look for information that would take into consideration more factors to the equation than a linear calculation.

Its not my expertise. Im no math guy. Which is why I dont post numbers.

[hearty cradle]

err even johnny used my calculation

[long tendon]

So maybe the best person to tag for this is @minor pagoda who can provide better numbers

[hearty cradle]

johnny is the CTO

why dont u tell that to johnny

[long tendon]

Sure bud. Your numbers are infallible. Okay.

You are the oracle

[hearty cradle]

i used assumption

[long tendon]

And I said linear assumption seems off.

[hearty cradle]

so if johnny used it its okay but not jag

noted

he literally wrote over 20 weeks for 2 weeks delay

[long tendon]

Uhhh when did I say that lol. I would tell @amber atlas as well that using Jags formula is off.

There happy? lol

[hearty cradle]

yup

[long tendon]

Awesome. Now moving on to the next topic.

[hearty cradle]

people like to drill me for saying the exact same thing as the team lol

[long tendon]

happens to everyone 😄

[hearty cradle]

if its kieran, its welcomed with nice emojis

if its jag, "jag u troll, u have ill intent"

[long tendon]

Dont worry. I dont get much emojis on my ideas too

But putting things back on track.

Increasing the percentage bonus would expedite the claim period right?

[hearty cradle]

there i tagged kieran to provide a more realistic calculation

[hearty cradle]

yes

johnny idea after i brought that up is not to use %

but fixed time period

like 3, 6, 9 months etc

i like that better

maybe a multiply of weeks delayed

[hearty cradle]

i really hope u say this to the team for every chat they posted. even kieran made token price prediction and no one bats an eye

[young nacelle]

I thought I'm in wrong channel

all purple colour

hope conversation go well.
please continue

[hearty cradle]

ur purple

[long tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/kim-taehyung-bts-v-vocalist-tae-tae-tae-gif-17364447

[young nacelle]

forward that to my daughter.

https://tenor.com/view/moti-hearts-gif-2083171700000455635

[long tendon]

She a V bias or just a BTS army lol. I hate that I know all of these things cause of my wifes addiction to Kpop lol

[young nacelle]

she still a baby! x-) 9mth+ haha!
but true, kpop can be very addictive if watch too much. 😅
need to know when to stop otherwise house full of kpop poster!

[minor pagoda]

I have been summoned

I think your numbers here work fine as a rough assumption

Yes, adding a J curve to the start would make for a better assumption but I don't think the duration of getting to say, 80% production capacity is remotely close to the timelines presented here, maybe 5-10% better approximation

Johnny states in his screenshot the 10% is not final, so it could be adjusted by governance to hit a shorter horizon quite easily I feel

This would, in turn, make the J more impactful

[hearty cradle]

assuming the time it takes for landowners to build up their base can make the period longer

[astral tapir]

What are the steps that link my immutable passport to my immutable x wallet with land?

[amber atlas]

Seriously getting a bit silly here. I said if we assume a constant revenue then this is what it looks like. There was no attempt to say "this is the exact time it will take".

The point being:

• the original 2.5% probably leads to really long payback time
• 10% is maybe okay...
• ... but its still probably better to just use a period such as '6 months'
• using some kind of more complicated model like a "J" to present a single result is as likely to be wrong as the linear model because we have no detail on what the relationship of the J parameters with regards to the delay (but if we created a chart/table then yes its probably more accurate... but that accuracy was not required to make my point)

[long tendon]

Was talking to jag on the side about this and while I agree there's issue with the prolonged period and a period makes sense, how would this look like?

Pool should be emptied out by end of said period. Are we going to treat it like our staking pool where there's a set amount being released daily until the pool is depleted? And what is determining factor for distribution?

[amber atlas]

I think an approximation is fine, the point is to distribute the revenue at a rate that gives a good chance for people to ramp up lands.

So for example we could simply add 16.66% for the first month, then update that factor to reflect change in revenue over the month, if revenue goes up percentage goes down, if revenue goes down percentage goes up.

(the IIP could include 1 month leeway if there is concern about the last tiny bit not exactly falling in the 6 months if there was a dramatic revenue change)

[weary bluff]

whats happening?

discuss delay, not compensations

[hearty cradle]

what compensation, this is negotiating how u receive your delayed revenue

[weary bluff]

there will be no compensation, ure just continuing to waste your time

we will not delay our revenue

all games will launch at once

[hearty cradle]

the IIP says so

[weary bluff]

what iip?

[hearty cradle]

49

[weary bluff]

that was thrown away by the community, why is it still being discussed?

[hearty cradle]

21:25

[weary bluff]

it is denied

[hearty cradle]

its not

yet

ICC need to vote

if it gets 25 upvotr

[weary bluff]

icc arent a factor when it comes to land

[hearty cradle]

lol

[weary bluff]

idgaf what yall think is happening here, but its not happening anymore

ok, try to pass 49

[hearty cradle]

wht u can do is present a counter arguement

why we shouldnt pass iip 49

[weary bluff]

because it sucks ?

none of it even helps land owners

its just to make money to token holders

[hearty cradle]

is the IIP gonna get revised before we vote?

[weary bluff]

iip shouldnt exist

[amber atlas]

Not my IIP, but council members are here...

[hearty cradle]

ok

[hearty cradle]

do an IIP to abolish IIP

[weary bluff]

idgaf about council members, they dont care and do not think about the game, stop with pushing us to council. they shouldnt be a factor for zero

they havent made a single decision, ever, that was good for land

not one

[hearty cradle]

IIP 45

[weary bluff]

yes, even that was bad af, which allowed ilv to run

from responsibilities

[hearty cradle]

what respondsibility

[weary bluff]

im sick and tired of council deciding what we gonna eat and when we gonna eat

no more, we need land sub council

[hearty cradle]

good idea

[radiant sky]

Doesn't Change anything 😂

[hearty cradle]

land should govern themself

[young nacelle]

at least he try anything he can.

[hearty cradle]

like Town Mayor?
and have sheriff

[weary bluff]

council should have lost credibility once they voted for silv2 in land sale 2 years ago

[young nacelle]

he can be out of line sometime
but is for landowner good actually.
Just need use big word in gentle way

[weary bluff]

literally made zero lose 70m

why would we need council in zero?

[hearty cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/the-world-is-going-to-need-you-to-build-a-better-day-after-fallout-we-need-your-help-we-need-you-join-us-gif-5150821418700465826

[weary bluff]

to screw us even worse

[hearty cradle]

fallout series is good

[young nacelle]

https://tenor.com/view/well-that-is-very-touching-david-rose-david-dan-levy-schitts-creek-gif-20766320

[radiant sky]

Great

[hearty cradle]

prob one of the best game adaptation

[weary bluff]

1. zero subcouncil that can deny vote concerning zero even if voted by ICC
2. my gamemode suggestion would be tower defense for zero
3. (this is very important punishment for the dao)

• scenario 1: no more land sales, because of washing silv2 and using it as an excuse that landowners didnt bring revenue, its both ilv team and council fault for allowing this and making it happen, effectively devaluing land in the eyes of the entire project.
• scenario 2: to compensate for first land sale and everything in between , maybe more land sales, but without silv2 and land owners take 50% of the revenue, u can do with the rest whatever tf u want, develop games, throw it to token holders or whatever

4. delay of the project until zero is fully ready.

[radiant sky]

There's Like 1k+ messages... Worth a backread or is it just rabblrabblrabbl?

[weary bluff]

its couple of councils and johnny trying to throw us under the bus

as usual

tell you what, ill be down for delay IF landowners take 95% of the revenue and dao 5%

for the entire duration

nothing less than that is acceptable

lets see council voting for delay with such conditions

[frozen finch]

I am thankfull for being able to use silv2 to buy my landplots✌️

[weary bluff]

i bet u are : D

#1230083215570632725 message

[weary bluff]

@spice vector

u havent said a word in all the years ilv has been alive, but u go to downvote, thats nice core contributor there : D

[vagrant dagger]

So is Kirean’s tweet real?? IZ on iOS??

[weary bluff]

cuz hes pushing to launch without land owners

but thats not happening

i also dont understand why land owners are not being allowed to play the beta and why only 10k ppl?

my wallet should be whitelisted for everything ilv ever does

[ocean haven]

100% agree with this i came to the same conclusion, unfortunately there is nothing we can do since the people who get revdis also make decisions.
not sure how demand for ilv token help make the games better or bring in more gamers, oooh it dont. on the other hand demand for gaming assets would(we are a gaming studio not a token studio) asset-ownership means nothing at all if you fail to create demand for the assets.

[weary bluff]

yep, theres no value in assets in ilv, thats the bad thing. im trying to open the eyes of ppl , but IQ is not somethign that can be helped : D just look at the suggestions we r getting, they dont seem to understand what a promise when making a sale means.

[ocean haven]

Yep it's very clear those people are not gamers, and dont care about demand for illuvium asset's and dont see what it will do to the ecosysteem in the future. Anyhow thank you for putting in the time and effort to fight for landowners, personally i given up even trying.

[weary bluff]

trust me, every day i come here and i say holy shit imma stop bothering, cuz ppl are clueless and the ppl in charge will continue to step on us forever, cuz nothing can stop them. this is like living in north korea around here. shit just happens and its always bad for you.

[grizzled remnant]

That's happening. The testnet don't need hold land to play it. How would the people joining the pre open beta loop would give feedback without the entire interopable experience ? The goal of this beta is to polish the game with feedbacks. can't read anymore your messages that are all toxics. you gave your voices on the subjects, we votes for people to take decisions, that's it... if you think that you are better than council members in that role, just nominate yourself but dunno if you would have the support you need..

[weary bluff]

nah, i would never go for council, because ill have to argue with unreasonable or greedy people all day and i will not be nice about it. also probably cant be voted in, since only token holders are allowed to vote and there isnt a single one of them that would want zero to grow if it affects token.

the token should have been something we use to make the games better, not something we live for at the cost of the games, but who am i..

[ancient nacelle]

isn't it better to be in a poisition at the table to argue with the people that have decision power rather than argue with those in here that don't?

[grizzled remnant]

Token holder are Land holder because they got sILV2 that they used to buy lands.

[ancient nacelle]

I'm mean it's plainly obvious you have the energy to.

[timber sapphire]

I bought my silv2, not from staking

[ancient nacelle]

I'm all for @weary bluff to be in there with other ILZ reps to fight for holders.

[radiant sky]

If you hold 95% of illuvium value in token and 5% in Land, you are a landholder indeeed, but you always route for everything benefiting token and don't care too much about land. Lot of token holders bought Land, but also Lot of token holders Sold a Big chunk of what they bought asap

[ancient nacelle]

I may have also rooted for the joker in the dark night.....

[timber sapphire]

https://tenor.com/view/why-so-serious-joker-heath-ledger-the-dark-knight-gif-4350118

[weary bluff]

oh, they sold that pie a long time ago.. its pure profits with zero value, why would they keep it ?

[grizzled remnant]

well i'm not deep into suggestion and governance but the point was just pointing out that it's cool to voice and give feedback. but then shitting on the governance system and people involved just remove all credibility and won't help to move forward in a good way.

[weary bluff]

i honestly will not be able to tolerate their bs and will probably be kicked out. i cant talk with these people and too big changes are needed in order to bring value in assets, itll take me years to undo what they have done. also 1 vote means nothing

[radiant sky]

I wouldn't say that... I feel illuvium is generally on a good Way. It's not Like you need to Burn down the whole System and rebuild it from the ashes 😄

[weary bluff]

i believe we need to. otherwise token will always be on top

until we become a gaming project theres nothing that can be done for ilv, we are currently a token supporting project

[radiant sky]

Of decision making? Absolutely, that was always the Intention, right.
However, you could implement a new Governance structure with Unions for all Games, let Land vote for 1-2 imc Spots or whatever to be sure all voices are heared

[radiant sky]

To mee it Looks Like a gaming Project, surely there are some dangerous Proposals token holders just want to implement for Shirt term pumps, but nothings implemented so far, besides the airdrop

And the IZ struggles obviously

[weary bluff]

we see whats coming. we see whats being forced from the top, how council thinks and votes. being optimistic does no good, its ocming. if we dont take action they will do whatever they please as they have so far.

[radiant sky]

What's coming besides the Zero Desaster?

[weary bluff]

if we consider the land owner disaster separately, theres also the airdrop disaster, the ow lack of paying playerbase disaster due to high prices to play, the pointless f2p zero disaster that would not retain any players due to no p2e implemented and the new game iip sales disaster, due to lack of value in current assets. cuz i certainly dont think that theyll start making new games without selling something.

we will create our own bear inside the bull, thats whats coming.

[radiant sky]

• Airdrop is a simple marketing Tool, isn't it?
  Don't Like it too much either, but why is it a Desaster?
• yea, totally Zero could have been handled with a much higher priority
• we don't know if prices are high or not, right?
• What do you mean with new game iip sales?

[lapis gulch]

We already have a playable zero game. Why can't we allow people to play it and build it up. Then just update the version?

[weary bluff]

as explained yesterday i believe the amount of ilv for airdrop is too small for web3, it will backfire due to low amounts distributed for long time invested. $BLOCK and $SHARK are the latest examples of what happens if your airdrop is too small. fyi the mavia airdrop was only successful because they gave shit ton of money. 125$ for doing a tutorial.

prices suggestion was dropped a while ago and even the lowest possible option was too high to go viral.

new game iip is about to be suggested soon, i highly doubt they wont sell something in order to make that, but theres only so much money u can drain from a community before u have to start giving back, so unless theres some sil2 washing machine, i dont see much investments in whatever sale they make, cuz they dont keep promises, they dont deliever and game assets are not a priority.

no matter what u do with 180k ilv, its not enough to distribute while giving some multiplier to land owners, lets say u hold 50k$ worth of land atm and u somehow receive 10 ilv by grinding a lot, theres a million players also waiting to get some, how much would they get? 0.2 per person? 0.1?

so in my opinion not only is it bad to even go for f2p without p2e in zero, cuz u wont retain users, but its also bad to distribute such small airdrop to that many people, projects easily hit 1m participants lately, even the less popular ones with shitty game easily hit 300k

[radiant sky]

Yea man, there were Like 1k+ messages.... Didn't backread.

• don't know Block and Shark, can't say anything to that. Are they high quality Games with a low airdrop and nobody played or is playing them?
  How much would you think is enough to Make an impactful Launch?

• still some time, will be delayed as always and this is a process i hope they take their time and do proper marked research and a back and forth between Team/imc and community. I wouldn't expect oh q3 game pitch and in q4 they Start Building a new game 😄

[covert bear]

nothing would ever move forward it would be stalemate

[weary bluff]

theyre not exactly gaming projects, i mean block is a mobile game launcher of sorts, shark is something like lending project, idk, but the grinding people are the same, im in groups, i follow shit, i grind these things.

[weary bluff]

not if the subcouncil has the word, itll move forward according to their views.

ofc compromises will have to be made here and there as long as theyre reasonable, but nothing that current council or ilv team has suggested is reasonable, so im certain theres more to be done.

[radiant sky]

So you grind them, but the airdrop is too low and they are actually more in defi and basic Plattform sectors?
I'm confused on 1 Hand and in the other hand not sure you can compare those 2

[weary bluff]

its all the same in web3 space.. if u underdeliever , u get fudded heavily

[abstract knot]

4 months after open beta launch we might not even have landowners started building their plots…

[abstract knot]

IIP-39 is useless

[radiant sky]

Maybe, but Like 1 of 1k defi Projects has it Harder to deliver as 1 of 30 gaming Projects, especially if you have competitors the size of binance😄

[abstract knot]

How is demand specified?

[weary bluff]

the airdrop is supposed to be few months? imagine how would ppl feel if they grind that long and in the end receive 0.2

[radiant sky]

Probably when fp of land is high enough to Make it worth the work

[cosmic spade]

thanks!
one question, overread it or is web gl (ios) missing?

[abstract knot]

Most likey…

[ancient olive]

this ^^

[radiant sky]

If you talking about pb4 and testnet...your passport is a testnet account, no need to connect any wallet

[ancient olive]

I thought ILV staking had weight in terms of getting PB4 access?

[fossil musk]

Does Ilv zero land owners get the chance of the 200.000 Ilv airdrop aswell? ( i mean by playing )

[fair temple]

but how about the airdrop points for holding, staking and other such things? does that have nothing to do with the passport?

[radiant sky]

Same Chance as everyone else for the small piece in pb4 and after that it's open for everyone anyways for the Big chunk of the airdrop

[radiant sky]

They said register with the same mail as your illuvium Account is.
The loyalty airdrop is going to be dropt directly into the wallet you have your assets on, right?
You even get points for having hold assets but Sold them at one point kieran said

[fair temple]

ahh nice. i see

[maiden plank]

@amber atlas For fuel pricing, has the US grain commodities market with limit up and limit down per day ever been discussed/considered - rather than a rail that requires reevaluation regularly? It allows the market to move with demand, but doesn't allow it to go insane in a day. It takes some time to make big moves up and down, ensuring that it's actually where the market is trending, not some crazy over-reaction. Sorry if it's been discussed, I try to keep up with reading through, but there's just so much!

[grizzled remnant]

While we enter in the Mainnet phase. Only landholder will be able to win airdrop point from land games ?.
Or all will have a F2P land and will be able to reach the same goals and earn airdrop point for free ?.

[radiant sky]

Must have overseen that, afaik there's no advantage of getting elected for pb4 if you Holding assets

[abstract knot]

@marsh sage I want you to rewrite IIP-39 so that there will be no landsale until at least 4 months after ILLUVIUM ZERO launch

[marsh sage]

I support. This was the intention anyway. I don't personally think we need an IIP for it but I would approve and suspect the councils would as well.

[abstract knot]

What needs to happen that this is actually the case and there is no chance for a landsale before that?

[radiant sky]

4 months... Way too less

[golden spoke]

How about no land sale until an additional game comes out.

[marsh sage]

Post in https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1126838877429182506 to amend the language from IIP-39 to state 'in the event of any delays to ILV Zero beyond open beta launch, no additional land sales would occur until a minimum of 4 months from ILV Zero launch', which was the original intention behind the proposal.

as it's own idea

it could then move through governance process to ICCP

[narrow oasis]

What about the time it took to release the game? 2 years +

[golden spoke]

2+ years from now would be nice. I think 20k plots will do just fine for illuvium. Any additional game would require additional fuel that could be generated on new land. No need to dilute.

[covert bear]

there is always more to be done, its never ending, you know as well as i do the greatest games and game studios took YEARS! to get off the ground and refine to the gems they are today. blizzard, epic, COD, GTA .. they were all dogshizz at the start, great, but nothing like they are today and its because they persisted through all the bs and the delays and i think if you have a secondary council in the way you are talking takes leadership away from leaders and it clogs up the process and the ebbs and flows further. it would be easier to have new leadership entirely because you are only talking about a new balance of power and its useless. let those that do, do. otherwise enjoy the game man because your ideas... are about setting up roadblocks instead of pathing a smooth path forward..