🎮〕illuvium-zero

[clever comet]

Why do you think everyone wants to catch Rhamphy? Is he available in large numbers and easily found?

[trail forge]

lol

[potent dock]

Is there something you're referring to in particular here? I've heard people talk about potentially having the ability to divide land, but that's not something that's been passed as a proposal, and so it's strictly hypothetical. If there's a conversation you've been reading, it would give more context to what your concerns are.

[clever comet]

I was listening to the Illuvium Council Town Hall today, and Keiran mentioned that they will consider this option. Maybe I misunderstood; English is not my native language

[potent dock]

Gotcha, I'll catch up on the town hall and see what was said. Currently, there is nothing concrete in place to sub-divide land, and nothing has been passed by proposal.

[alpine wagon]

any word on when the minting periode is going to be?

[clever comet]

No, maybe I missed it.

I will listen again tomorrow

[lethal valley]

not yet...

[quick elm]

tried it tonight, logged out and logged in, downloading. thanks for the help.

[mortal smelt]

Have to get this off my chest, so far the way it’s going retention for land is at a all time low.

Fuel debacle, delay, seems land owners have no room to breath atm

[vivid cipher]

What is “fuel debacle”?

[mortal smelt]

Free market or not

[vivid cipher]

The fact that rails was always the plan?

[mortal smelt]

The fact that we had to do a whole show with the fact that rails was always the plan

[vivid cipher]

That’s DAO for ya. The d is for debacle

[mortal smelt]

Morale is down for me and the AMA didn’t make it any easier to swallow

[trail forge]

The delays hurt everyone in the ecosystem. It is what it is

[mortal smelt]

Zero was glossed over and the direction wasn’t clear for me to understand.

[vivid cipher]

The fuel pool has always been a big ? for me. Immutable X balancer pool has not been viable tech wise (still not?) and the needed liquidity was also a concern. The orderbook solution is good

[mortal smelt]

So close to open beta to be having these discussions imo

Again I sympathize at the fact that this will be a first in the space and applaud the immense work that has gone into it, but some things I thought would have been worked out.

Also what steps are the team taking in case Unity doesn’t work out?

Sorry maybe I’m worrying too much

[vivid cipher]

Is unity going towards bankruptcy? No. Free to play players are the only downloads that would be problematic for the DAO to cover the cost of

And f2p zero has always been considered fairly pointless.

[mortal smelt]

This is all new info to me

[vivid cipher]

Simple solution would be to use unity’s in game ads for f2p. Lol it’s ugly but it’s f2p and it’s exactly what unity wants.

[vivid cipher]

Unity dropped their announcement like last week anyways. It’s new to everyone.

[mortal smelt]

Why not just scrap f2p altogether?

On zero

If it is pointless

[vivid cipher]

To play is pointless. But to get players is advertising

Gateway onboarding

[mortal smelt]

Then there has to be more elements to just mining fuel

Or be able to use that fuel for something else in game

[vivid cipher]

That is the long term idea. Some sort of rts

[mortal smelt]

Don’t get me wrong it’s fun, but once you reach that point it’s just repetitive

[pseudo orchid]

Hey guys, I'm stuck on "Waiting for Captcha", when loading on windows. Any quick fix?

[vivid cipher]

VPN, firewall, or router is possibly getting in the way of the internet connection

Some connection blocker

[cyan bone]

Yes absolutely, open beta Illuvium Zero isn't targeting F2P players, however Johnny and Game Design have a long list of potential features to take Zero from where it is today to a game F2P players will be excited to dive into.

[iron veldt]

Please just don’t forget us Landholders that are holding lands till the beginning.
It’s fine to do everything for the DAO - but please give us also space to live

Lands get nerfed every day a little bit more

[odd pumice]

Which Tier is the best to have to produce Fuel ⛽ for being able to play 6-7 hours of Overworld per week without needing ever to buy fuel again? 👀

[timber glacier]

The actual fuel costs for overworld runs haven't been decided on by the team yet (or at least not announced). So we don't know.

[long tendon]

Tier 4 😛 cause fuel production is exponential as tier goes up

[inner mango]

I get booted everytime I play now and its very annoying... Any ideas why?

[ancient nacelle]

Was the most recent townhall recorded? I'm interested in listening to it.

[empty path]

Yes

[ancient nacelle]

Where would I find the recording? I've looked through the most relevant tabs and can't find it.

[empty path]

Illuvium youtube

[ancient nacelle]

thanks.

[hoary forge]

illuvium+ on youtube not the normal illuvium channel.

https://youtu.be/p4RyQtX_nsQ?si=QZxHGqbVynRjOIhi

[wide salmon]

Hey guys. Anybody know how much will we be able to sell fuel to the pool for?

[dry mango]

Only when the game is released, still without a fixed date

[true sequoia]

tier two appears the sweet spot, but not definitive yet

[wide salmon]

I think it shouldn’t be so cheap to travel. The illuvials should be hard to get as the scarcity will make them valuable. And make people want to travel and spend $ on fuel. This is crypto gaming not broke boy gaming we’re here to capitalize and have fun. Idk I may be wrong

[wide salmon]

What’s this

[pseudo pulsar]

@wide salmon just a update of my land achievements

[wide salmon]

Nice

What do those three categories mean?

[vivid cipher]

Blueprints. Bio data. Facts.

[wide salmon]

Wow 15 blue prints

Are there any on marketplace yet ?

[empty path]

They are imaginary for now

[cursive walrus]

I haven't logged into my zero account since I maxed out the blueprints, bio data and facts. Have I missed out on anything?

[empty path]

Nope

[wide salmon]

They will be wiped?

[empty path]

They are not on chain yet. We should be able to mint them closer to game launch

[cerulean steppe]

If fuel constantly hits the upper rail (IIP-39), there is no reason to even play and develop my Illuvium Zero plots anyway (except for blueprints), because I would get the 5% from the fuel the DAO sells at the upper rail without doing anything myself.

Nobody knows if the upper rail is being hit most of the time, but if they set it low enough to attract mainstream "gamers", it will be hit most of the time and as a land holder you can sell when the demand drops and then sell for a lower price.

Not a great motivation to own land and I am not sure if land ownership makes even sense as an investment, considering the amount of work you have to put in to develop it.

With upper rails our job as land holder is to ensure prices drop below the upper rail when demand falls. Why would I do this job?

Maybe the team has the answer? @bitter glade @noble quest

If they want me to do this job, they should offer me some incentive.

This is what I can read in the initial land sale document and it tells me to sell when demand is high and maximize my profits. The opposite of what I get with upper rails:

Extract Fuel and sell to players across all Illuvium games, earning revenue. Sell your Fuel on the IlluviDex when demand is high to maximise your profits. Scan your Land for Illuvial Biodata and Research to generate rare Blueprints (NFTs) for new skins. Blueprints can be used for crafting or sold for ETH on the IlluviDex.

It also says:

Practically, suppose the demand for Fuel is higher or lower than the production. In that case, the real-world price of Fuel-related actions can increase or decrease up to 25%. Landholders can choose to sell when the price is high, while players can wait for low prices. Eventually, the economy reaches equilibrium.

In this initial design I could sell for more than the intended price. Even with a 25% rail this would at least allow land holders to also raise prices.

And since there is no lower rail in IIP-39, land holders can have fun racing to 0. Not the kind of fun I envisioned when I spent hundred thousands.

With the upper rails in IIP-39 it would be better to just sell land and stake ILV. If I had staked the substantial amount of land investment as ILV, I would have earned ILV from it, had voting rights and not just have land sit idle for more than a year and get a few T0 blueprints everyone can find later on.

I don't even want a battle board. I want what was promised (at least).

If we as land holders don't speak out loud now, we will always be treated as the last tier, good enough to bring in money and otherwise seen as a nuisance.

[celest wagon]

You're right!

[cerulean steppe]

Thank you !

[celest wagon]

I have 9 lands that have been sleeping for 2 years .. no staking the worst investment..

I am opposed to this idea of a guardrail, it kills our desire to play

[cerulean steppe]

If land prices drop, because land owners feel rugged, then the Illuvium economy is dead, before it even started and no mainstream gamer will ever trust us.

They will rightfully say: "See, they even rugged each other"

This comes from a true believer.

[reef jasper]

land owners have most definitely been consistently shafted from the beginning...

https://tenor.com/view/two-weeks-happy-dance-gif-18982959

[radiant sky]

Thats not completely true.
If fuel price Hits the top rail, the size of your share of the 5% is dependent in how much fuel you Sold during a certain period of time.(not Set yet afaik)

I really hope they don't Set it that Way. Thats how you would Set a fixed price. Which would mean everytime the price is below rail, they actually get the Discount. (Not Like Planed where we just would advertise it as a Discount.)

I totally agree, token is the Way better Investment in illuvium at the moment.

Fuel price also won't go to 0.
It will go to the price lvl they Set the automated System to.

[cerulean steppe]

Thanks for the correction. But my main critique still stands. IIP-39 would be a totally different game play and investment.

[radiant sky]

Absolutely

[mortal smelt]

In all honesty the price point during the auction seems laughable at this point.

[celest wagon]

so sad...

[radiant sky]

The struggle is most landowners are silent Investors, especially the Big wallets... not much you can do against it. They will come back when game is live, but until then all changes are already made

[mortal smelt]

So the battleboard will be per wallet and not per land?

[empty path]

Yea I think that's what I read

If the proposal passes

[radiant sky]

Yea thats Bad... need to create 20 wallets to spread landplots 🙄
But will most likely anyways be declined 😬

[mortal smelt]

if you send it to another wallet the land resets so you'd have to restart

thats a lot of hours to cover

[empty path]

Current gaming council doesn't really care about IZ, don't think it will pass

[radiant sky]

It's for the build up Phase, i have minted all bp's then

[radiant sky]

Yea totally

I would even say current councils don't care about it... not just gaming.

It's all about pvp and beyond atm

[empty path]

Community council voted yes on it

[mortal smelt]

alienating your player base that are also the investors is why our floor is so low.

[radiant sky]

Afaik they almost have to when there are enough upvotes. They are the voice of the community, no?

[mortal smelt]

the delays just killed it

[radiant sky]

Artemis even stated she doesn't Like the iip but voted yes because of the upvotes if i remember correctly

[empty path]

All councils represent the community. Really weird to see somebody vote no because of "the extra work"
There already are battle board skins, it's just a snapshot

Anyhow, not gonna discuss this here anymore.

[radiant sky]

Yea totally agree, i guess patate didn't even read the whole iip, and SJuD anyways says no to every little bit of workload except for cheap pvp

[mortal smelt]

Only the future will tell of the actions from the council

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain

Sometimes, the best of intentions can steer you in the wrong direction. You may see your goals to be honorable and even be in the service of mankind but there is also the chance these very same decisions will cause more destruction.

[radiant sky]

Absolutely

But the worst decisions very rarely become good decisions.

[mortal smelt]

IMO if you want to make decisions on land you have to own it also

If i had all these revelations prior to me purchasing land I would have waited or not even bought at all

[radiant sky]

yea, wouldn't have bought at all.
Was to new to the community at that time, couldn't estimate where it all was going to. Now i'm stuck with it, cause my brother doesn't wana sell and 50% is his stuff 😄

[mortal smelt]

The feeling that I was suckered is strong

I don't get the backlash when land holders are complaining, because at the end of the day we are not getting paid and our investment keeps going down is VERY frustrating.

These temporary bandaids are doing nothing to help the situation either

Some of these council members saying "well invest in ILV", I do both thank you very much

[radiant sky]

pretty simple.
Most have way more value in token than land. So there interest is to get the already delayed game out so revdis can start flowing in.
Which makese sense, illuvium itself needs that aswell... but you should still get all the sentiment. there are not many community/council members able to look at everything objectively and rational, but i guess that's everywhere where humans are 😄

[radiant sky]

yea, statements like that doesn't let people stay in a good light

[mortal smelt]

this is exactly why some land holders feel alienated, like wtf you want me to sell my land at a loss to invest in ILV just so I can give my input?

excuse my French

When Illuvitars people complained they got an answer and catered to immediately, but I can see why because it is the current cash cow.

[radiant sky]

yea, this beside many other things going wrong with land 😄

[mortal smelt]

I just hate seeing the fighting with no real resolution and its just land owners giving up and selling

[cyan bone]

We are receptive to the thought of 'ideate an incentive for the Land Holders that have held since the Land Sale'.

[radiant sky]

johnny already seemed to have a good idea, but he also said it will probably not get through aaron because of workload.

[cyan bone]

The big issue with that, at least from my side.. is that we are quite literally doing everything in our power to focus on launching Open Beta

[mortal smelt]

when i first mentioned this before in the past during the initial land sale i was banned from discord, i'm sure things are different now.

[cyan bone]

The sooner we can get to that point the sooner your Land can produce fuel to be sold for ETH

[radiant sky]

the battle boards seems also to be a nice idea of splendor, but will most likely not get through councils.
Which is the main point, workload for IZ will not get through council until like 6+ months after open beta i guess... no point in making proposals

[hoary forge]

i don´t think you got banned for that.

[mortal smelt]

it was what led up to it, yes the name calling by the actual name was wrong but doesn't constitute as a ban

[cyan bone]

We discussed this, I believe Council will speak to Splendor about re-writing the proposal to some extent.

[radiant sky]

i bet 🙂

[cyan bone]

We need to move away from a proposal being so specific for example "Land Owners should receive a Battleboard"

to.. "Land Owners need some additional incentives ahead of Open Beta"

and from that point, it moves to the Team to ideate what those solutions look like before we than share those solutions with the Council & Community to vote on.

[mortal smelt]

I can see why we have a bottleneck

[radiant sky]

But to be totally honest with you nick.
When i look at how IZ got advertised with the "Skinfactory" and fuel "factory" which is going to be used in every game in illuvium, and look at it now, with IIP 39 and the Skinn sell mechanic of Illuvium with IB. No fuel used in the first "Side game" (arena)...
I can't really see something saving land.

[radiant sky]

I can see why it was so specific...the 15 blueprints also got out as a incentive to play and a thank you.
But if you consider BP bonding curve it was more of a "either you play now or you won't be able to mint the BP of these Illuvial lines after open beta launch. Some surely still see it as a reward, but i certainly don't.

So battleboard skins are for sure a reward, and not something similiar to the 15 BP's

[main crag]

One e.g. of what a broader solution could look like: https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1154796237363625985

[mortal smelt]

The pushback from the council on a number of IZ things makes me weary of this

[rotund reef]

I've been a bit outspoken on that too, 15 BPs that won't be worth a lot because so many people have them is not much of a reward. But what you just said is intriguing. I just learned yesterday in the land owner thread that you can't find a lvl 2 BP unless you already have the lvl 1. If we initial land owners have exclusive rights to those lines........that is better fwiw.

[cyan bone]

Of the 20,000 Land Plots that exist... how many do we think will be grinding for all of the Blueprints in the first few months?

[radiant sky]

we have 2k dau in IZ, at the moment. with most already got their BP and not playing anymore, i feel you can expect that arround 75% of all land will mint the BP's.
i just did it because i thought maybe a lot of big bags don't play alpha and it might be rare to see the s3's of the lines we have now. But with almost all land got the bp's i doubt the s2/3 will be that rare. A lot of t2/3 will push for them after open beta launch i guess.

[cyan bone]

Personally I'm only planning to produce BPs on one of my lands, and optimize the rest for fuel production

[mortal smelt]

Without clear information I can only assume to plan it out, but there are supposed changes that we are in the dark about.

[cyan bone]

Yeah Johnny and the Zero team know more than I

[mortal smelt]

Which is frustrating especially with the sentiment on IZ as it is now

the AMA with Kieran didn't give me any confidence boost at all with IZ

[cyan bone]

It's still in the ideation phase, I think it makes perfect sense for us to take snapshots of ownership on the lead up to Open Beta though

[mortal smelt]

It just made it more clear that IZ is secondary to whatever plan Illuvium has going

[cyan bone]

No it's not like that, it's simply that we have all resources on delivering Open Beta

Johnny, Product, Admins are absolutely thinking about the roadmap for Zero

[rotund reef]

Same. Fuel is just there to keep the BP factory running smooth.

[radiant sky]

i don't think you will need fuel for your BP production.

at least there was no hint yet for that

[cyan bone]

What we know to be true:

• We acknowledge there is a problem.
• We know Johnny, Kieran, Admins are thinking about way's to incentivize Land Owners.
• On the Develoment side, the guys are at capacity delivering the Open Beta state

[mortal smelt]

and with IMX are we going to be on the rollup?

[rotund reef]

Yeah the s3's may still be just as rare as most s3's -- but we'll be the only ones who can access them, which could make their rarity go up a bit. I'm just speculating, but an interesting angle.

[rotund reef]

I'd rather catch the illuvials than buy them, so it will come into play there at least.

[radiant sky]

oh, ok. Didn't expect that 😄

[mortal mural]

can someone give some pointers on T1 land playing? whats the play? converters for passive fuel and elements?

[worldly flume]

Speaking of this, my converters dont give guel. Its already been 2 days. Can we have a timer or something?

[radiant sky]

thats my t1 i'm playing right now.
Fuel converter just passive lvl 1, element converter active conversion.
Element production up to 150% efficiency.
Next steps;

• An additional converter for each element
• Element production up to lvl 6/7
• Start building scanners + mat labs

[mortal smelt]

Just for the record I have been and still am a big supporter of Illuvium as a whole, had recent personal issues that got solved and don't need to sell my assets as God is good. Appreciate @cyan bone for being transparent, and able to take the criticism and turn it into constructive answers.

[cyan bone]

Glad to hear that the personal issues are solved mate.

[mortal mural]

THX!!!! this helps a lot

[reef jasper]

still planning on getting my ILV tattoo.. even if land is a flop

https://tenor.com/view/no-regrets-no-ragrets-same-yolo-we-are-the-millers-gif-4961595

[mortal mural]

is that fuel converter ratio on purpose?

[radiant sky]

yes.
Needed first 5 and afterwards 10 crypton for nexus upgrades to lvl 6 and 7.
With 15 hyperion converters i get enough hyperion to place 3 mat labs in 2 days.

[hexed thistle]

what’s the price of a t1 land now

?

[radiant sky]

t1 floor is arround 0.15 eth

[iron laurel]

My husband and I invest together. I chose Illuvium. We sit down and talk about how all the investments are going periodically. Anyhow, we had our "monthly meeting" and got to land.
Him: "I thought land was the only way people could get skins?"
Me: "Yeah, so did I when I bought it."
Him: "So, we've held it for this long, price has dropped, the assets that you were most looking forward to are being given out in the whole Illuvitar thing and you still aren't making any money off the land?"
Me: "Well, they are not the exact same skins and we are getting BPs soon."
Him: "As a first step to make skins, which you will need to invest more time and therefore money into, in order to actually make a skin which is similar to skins that are given away in Beyond?"
Me: "I bought with sILV2 rewards though."
Him:" Which you could have taken as ILV, unlocked later and sold or put back in. It's still actual money, was this the best way to spend it?"
Me: "I think we should stop talking and go have sex. Or a snack. Or both."

I like playing my land. It's amazing what the team has done with it but I still hope it pays off in the end.

[radiant sky]

the IZ team, really did a good job, absolutely.

Was just backreading some IIP's few days ago.
Did you know that Illuvitar IIP is older than IZ? 🙃
I couldn't help myself feeling rugged about the whole skingame when i saw that.

[primal sentinel]

anyone know how to fullscreen in illuvium zero? f11 isn't working for me

[iron laurel]

Come again? Illuvitar IIP is older than IZ?
I am normally the biggest Iluvium cheerleader ever but admit I'm not happy about skins being available outside of land. Especially when I think they could have been "made" by landowners for the purpose of Beyond. With landowners receiving some kind of payment of some sort. I just feel like our land is losing value daily and it makes me sad. The gameplay is being lost too with rails etc. I wanted to play an economy building game not just a clicker. BUT I am keeping the faith that the team doesn't want to see IZ destroyed either.First because they aren't the type to rug their OGs and second because it wouldn't be good to bring in new investors. So, I will just keep distracting the husband until I can say "I told you so."🤣

[mortal mural]

so the strat is baseically rush the nexus so we can spam converters?, is this viable for t2 and t3? maybe t3 not necessary?

[mortal mural]

i would like to see some nice roi too. i think rail is necessary. maybe we just focus on fuel production. but ultimately the project as a whole needs to survive and we should decide on necessary changes. there still are a lot of options for land owners we should discuss all together. maybe we should see a longer term view. for now lands is the only way to get fuel for this games and the next ones, maybe we should focus on that. i too feel frustrated but every investments has risks.

maybe we make land a factory for all sorts of things in the illuvium economy, we are very far from being left out of options.

[radiant sky]

full zoom out is not possible atm.
should get implemented for open beta.

[primal sentinel]

ah ok, thanks for letting me know

[radiant sky]

yea, Illuvitar iip was actually one of the first iips made.
can't remember exactly... iip 12 or arround that.

Well makes a lot of sense now. I was actually suprised at the time of landsale, that illuvium would give away revenue from skins, since cosmetics is THE money printing machine in most games these days.
Selling them via disk's, basically... buy some disks to get that skin and maybe if you are lucky, the stuff revealed in this disks can give you a profit in total if you sell right away. it's a very well thought out mechanic to sell skins.

Yea, definetly no free market. They basically even have the tools now to make it a fixed price... not really a "free market".
One could argue that with the rail and the automated system, they took away all the power of IZ... basically if nobody would play IZ, nobody would care. Before IIP 39 it would just have been no fuel on the market to play Overworld if nobody played IZ.
Same, the whole "real market" inside Illuviverse was what turned me and my brother into buy land.

Thought the same, especially when i hear aaron and grant talking, it feels like they wana have premium fun games all over the place.
But at the same time you see council smuggling in landsale change into iip39 and setting the min bar to 4 months, feels like totally the opposite. More like "sell all land asap"

Idk, maybe it looks totally different behind the scenes, but from what community knows it looks bad, like really bad for IZ imo.

[radiant sky]

exactly.
Depends how your fuel sites are distributed.
For example on a t2, if you have 1 of each fuel sites, you can add up to 3 (i do mostly 2 for season1) converters to each site, which will get an efficiency boost (you will need less powerstations for 150%). These converters 2 converters each site you could upgrade and convert acitve. T2 and especially t3 also have production bonus which will grant you more fuel per conversion.
If you are 1 or even 2 kind of fuel missing you can just spam converters for the missing fuel. For example if you lack a crypton side you can spam crypton converters.

remember, all this stuff can be changed for open beta. It's just the way i do it for season 1.

[rotund reef]

Yeah, I don't get too bent out of shape with what's going on now, because I don't think the team will be crazy enough to rug their landholders. No company who does their investors dirty survives for very long.

BPs overall need to be special and rare. If they're not, then they've made a big mistake.

[iron veldt]

Thanks so much Nick! And that you listen to our Ilv Zero community that we also should be heard!

[radiant sky]

even if they are special and rare.
As a land holder you compete vs Illuvium now, if it comes to sell skins. At least with mozart and raner skins, lets forget about battleboards for a moment 😄
So, you as a landholder have to be lucky enough to get the blueprint for a desired skin. After that achievement you have to invest (Buy resources, fuel, illuvials) in order to create the skin you hopefully sell afterwards.
At the same time your direct competitor creates them out of thin air. One new set every few months.

gona be tough for sure 🙃

[rotund reef]

Wait, what is this "one set every few months" mean?

Who gets to do that, and how?

[worldly flume]

What skins are you talking about?

[bitter phoenix]

Landowners are clearly disheartened at this point. The question is what do we do about it?

[reef jasper]

honestly a major deciding factor in my, and im sure many others, future Illuvium investments

[bitter phoenix]

Yes I agree

[dire pier]

Splendor your IIP for reparations already passed, and you still aren't satisfied?

What else do you think landowners are entitled to? How about we focus on making sure the game comes out?

[rotund reef]

No, because that's out of our hands.

[icy thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/am-i-late-gif-23534284

[dire pier]

But whining and wasting dev's time is certainly something we can do, got it

[icy thicket]

This was DECLINED (Rejected) by Gaming Sub-Council just now

It only passed community sentiment and CSC Vote. After GSC would have been IMC for final vote

[icy thicket]

Dayum looking good!! 🔥 mine is a mess compared to thst cleanliness

[radiant sky]

that's just me guessing how IB rewards turn out to be for future sets/waves/collabs

[rotund reef]

Got it, yeah I'm not going to worry too much until these things start happening in real time, then we can see what's really happening. And even then, things can change.

[radiant sky]

well.. you got a taste of it with the gamestop collab and ib rewards set1 wave 2...

[rotund reef]

But there's nothing wrong with expressing concern now. As people with real skin in the game, yes, we get to do that.

[rotund reef]

I still don't know much about this. Can you expand a bit? As it regards to BPs...

[cyan bone]

Expressing concern is important, provided the ask is reasonable.

In at least a few meetings this week.. Kieran and others have raised the IZ communities general sentiment.

More often than not discussion in public channels is being read

I read every channel both internal and public multiple times per day and others do the same.

[celest wagon]

Aaron should be the new boss of illuvium!! we throw the governance DAO in the trash?

[cyan bone]

Governance serves an important purpose, one of many is that it ensures we're sufficiently decentralized in a burgeoning space that is only now receiving regulation.

[radiant sky]

sure
In IB there are stretch goals which have skins and more implemented in. I guess, they will swap them out with new rewards every set and or wave
During the gamestop collab you were able to buy a special gamestop disk, with special illuvitars in it. If you had some gamestopcustomer account (dont remember exactly what it was) you got a mozart skin.

[cyan bone]

The 'partner' branded skins are an incredible way to encourage cross-polination of users, I will say.. we don't have plans to do a skin for the next partner.

But your point stands, just thought I'd mention it.

[radiant sky]

what's a synonym for "cross-polination"?
i don't know the word, and i guess deepl translates it wrong 😅

[cyan bone]

h aha, encouraging users from the partners community to enter our community

and vice versa

[radiant sky]

ah, yea... without a doubt.

[icy thicket]

When a bee lands on one plant and brings pollin to another plant - cross-pollination (Pollin from one plant to the next)

🌼 🐝 🌸 🤓

[icy thicket]

That skin still makes me think about poker/cards for some reason ♠️ ♣️♦️❤️🃏

[radiant sky]

😄
wasn't my first thought.

i always think about macrons when looking at mozart 😄

https://tenor.com/view/e22-macaron-macarons-macaroon-macaroons-gif-19095594

[icy thicket]

Oh you suck 😆
Now I am craving macarons!! 🤤 🤤 🤤

But yup now I cannot unsee that 😆

[cyan bone]

I can't look away 🤤

Mesmerizing

[icy thicket]

Blue & White = Cookie monster for sure

[rotund reef]

Ok thanks for this, but it's not too concerning IMO. I never expected to have 100% exclusivity to the skins market as a land holder, but I don't see that as competition really.

[mortal mural]

I recently found your channel, I found your videos very helpful. Will more about illuvium a zero be coming out?

[rotund reef]

Absolutely. There's just nothing to make videos on for now.

[bitter phoenix]

The iip failed in the gaming sub council vote. You can read the rationale in the council chambers

[gleaming swallow]

any news on minting the blueprints?

[vivid cipher]

No

[bitter phoenix]

I am disappointed that the iip failed but do understand some of the rationale behind why it failed. I will however point out for future reference that as Caveman stated, I was happy to work with the council and team to revise this iip to find a workable solution but 3 of the Game council members were not open to this. Those council members are the ones who voted against the proposal. I feel that this issue will continue to be debated and hopefully a solution will be found in the future.

[mortal smelt]

where can I view these results?

[bitter phoenix]

Council chambers

[mortal smelt]

I see that it was approved by several but I don't see any against

[bitter phoenix]

It was approved by the community sub council which then pushed it up to the game sub council to vote on. It failed at this point

[mortal smelt]

Can I read the rationale behind the vote to be against it?

[bitter phoenix]

Yes the rationale is all written in the council chambers channel.

[mortal smelt]

im reading the responses to IIP39 and do not see any comments from the ones that are against it

as to why

[bitter phoenix]

https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/809220500756234280

Do you have Ilv staked and stakers role?

[mortal smelt]

you and me must be having communication issues

I have staked ILV and providing liquidity

[bitter phoenix]

You may have to have connected your wallet to discord to get the Ilv stakers roll to see all the governance related topics

[mortal smelt]

in the council chambers all i see is approved for IIP39, I do NOT see any against. AM I READING IT WRONG?

[bitter phoenix]

Did the link I posted send you to it

[mortal smelt]

rickytan or vetemor?

i see approved on both

[bitter phoenix]

I’m sorry I’m not great with discord technology.

It’s iip 40

[mortal smelt]

you almost gave me a aneurysm...

i thought i was tripping

[bitter phoenix]

Sorry. I hope you can find it. May need a mod to help

[mortal smelt]

I found it, I was specifically talking about 39 and not 40. As I said earlier we had some miscommunication going on.

[bitter phoenix]

Oh I see. Got it now. 😂

[mortal smelt]

It would be cool and it might be a stretch, if we could get the actual NFT of land redone like the Illuvials.

[trail forge]

Some possible ways forward that I felt were too far out of scope of the original proposal to go with a council revision that I could possibly get behind.

1. Similar to Beyond rewards - Buy X amount ILZ in game somethings (depending on monetization ingame) to unlock the battleboard skin
2. Skill Based - First X players to achieve Y with their Plot unlock the battleboard skin

Getting something for free simply for just existing and for everyone just doesn't sit right for me and sets a bad precedent.

[true sequoia]

hmmm....I'm about ready to sell my land and not come back to zero again in the future.....

[mortal smelt]

do you hold land?

[trail forge]

I do not

[mortal smelt]

case closed

[bitter phoenix]

There is a clear underlying dissatisfaction from land owners. If you read all of the ongoing comments in this channel you can see that stakeholders are unhappy and do not feel heard.

[trail forge]

I believe the rest of the council does so it has nothing to do with that

[mortal smelt]

your opinion has no bearing to me

[trail forge]

lol ok buddy

[mortal smelt]

very professional

[trail forge]

you literally said you don't care about my opinion
there's nowhere to go from there

[mortal smelt]

some people have a complex and it shows

when I work, I leave my feelings and attitude checked at the door

[bitter phoenix]

The council has to walk a fine line between making decisions that are good for revenue and delivering the products that were promised, and also keeping in touch with the value or lack of value being delivered to the earliest stakeholders

[trail forge]

I gave my reasonings in Chambers and gave a possible way forward here. Happy to discuss it further or not discuss it at all.

[mortal smelt]

There is no discussion you have made your peace

[bitter phoenix]

I have stated that I am always open to trying to find a potential solution but as Caveman pointed out that avenue has been closed

[mortal smelt]

just for existing? you sure do have a way with words that are sure to irritate anyone reading that

[bitter phoenix]

Quoted from Caveman rationale

[mortal smelt]

Understandable

[trail forge]

Like I mentioned I feel like the revisions I would have needed to see (like the examples I gave here) would be too big of a change to edit the current IIP.

If a new IIP was written and got enough community sentiment to go through the process than I'd take another look at it

[mortal smelt]

and then ask to have it revised again?

this charade is going longer than expected

HOW CAN I TAKE THIS DAO SERIOUSLY WITH COUNCILS THAT HAVE NERVES AS STRONG AS TWIGS

HOW CAN YOU COME INTO THE ROOM AND NOT FREAKING READ IT

[bitter phoenix]

Without any guidance or input from the game council and team this is a waste of time. I have put forth 2 iips both of which technically had enough community support to go through to the voting process. Each time the council and team could have had input before posting of these iips.

[mortal smelt]

The decision making process is turning out to be a total joke, and from @trail forge it seems some council member(s) have a idea that land owners are free loaders. Yes this is exactly how you retain your community, player base, investors.

[bitter phoenix]

Hopefully this iip failing will encourage more debate around the concerns of landowners and will lead to a solution that is a compromise of best for Dao and best for retention of early investors

[mortal smelt]

And I could give 2 pieces of your input RN @analog inlet

you don't hold land so please don't interject

[analog inlet]

Personally i have been against both ofthem completely --- for the following reasons #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[mortal smelt]

you only know it from 1 perspective, I hold both land, stake and provide liquidity on top of buying illuvitars and trying my best to support whichever way I can.

To make the best decision, especially for a certain part of the ecosystem you need to have skin in the game

[bitter phoenix]

Everyone has an opinion and that’s ok. The debate is complex and sometimes emotional. We should have the discussion in a constructive and respectful way to try to resolve issues.

[analog inlet]

Irrelevent.. I have been around since before land ---- even just after the sale the land owners wanted stuff- I had to put up with this long and may one be one voice and one opinion but i will make it known

[bitter phoenix]

That is the point of a Dao isn’t it?

[mortal smelt]

for what purpose? your ego? you do nothing to help the situation to be frank

sometimes it feels like your just adding fuel to the fire

especially when i read your same comments 50 million times

you don't try to look at anyones elses perspective but your own

which is why when I agree with you at times, your attitude just makes me want to not agree

[analog inlet]

What side is there ? land owners that think they bought land so that makes them investors equal to stakers?

[mortal smelt]

again you don't know cause you don't know, im beating a dead horse with you

[bitter phoenix]

How are land owners not investors who provide a lot of liquidity?

[mortal smelt]

i stake and provide liquidity ALSO SO DOES MY OPINION NOT COUNT CAUSE I OWN LAND TOO???

[analog inlet]

have you even reason my post i cleary outline the reasons for my opinions im not jsut somone who is say ing "land is bad"

[icy thicket]

Land is a form of staking where fuel sales/earnings is the revdis 😉
#changemymind

[mortal smelt]

your opinion is so narrow minded i can't even thread a needle into it

[icy thicket]

Let's all take a breath and try to remain respectful 🙏

Everyone has differences of opinions, hear them out and its okay if you disagree....

[bitter phoenix]

Please keep the conversation respectful. We won’t get anywhere by disrespecting eachother personally

[mortal smelt]

I don't mind his opinion, but he shouldn't push it on anyone

but Solar does it repeatedly

You got chastised for it in the past too by team members yet you still continue

[bitter phoenix]

He can voice his opinion and his reasoning as can all of us. The debate needs to happen and all sides should be heard

[mortal smelt]

there is a difference between stating your opinions and trying to push an agenda with your opinion

[analog inlet]

I this in my post but obviosly as a council mmber you have not taken an interest n reading it

1. as per Aaron land does not produce Revdis it produces an eth payout -- if you do not know that one basic point ....
   2 Show me where land is in the tokenomics
   3 As per the the IPP land Is amini game that gets a %5 fuel based reveue eth pay out onely - That what peole bought --that all they are entitled to .
   anything more read my pot

[bitter phoenix]

If you have heard it and disagree then just leave it at that. Your input in terms of possible solutions ect would be constructive

[mortal smelt]

land produces revdis when more lands are sold

[analog inlet]

Not for landower no non staking landowner will ever get revdis

[grave island]

Only valid reason to go against the proposal if it is going to have major delay on release and that is only those working on the game can say. Sad part about land is not only a garbage investment but also having people which dont own any land asset have a say what is good for them.

[mortal smelt]

if you haven't noticed Aaron said anything can be changed, so your argument there is mute

[mortal smelt]

your just taking 1 extreme to the next, there is no middle ground or thinking with you

[analog inlet]

techicaally it could --- but i am hoping the EDao would sept in an veto any council that would do such a betay of trust

[icy thicket]

I had read your post several times actually 🙂 wish you had linked your wallet and share it in the gov-idea 😀

Not "stating" fuel sales/earnings is "revDis" = it can be seen as a form of it.

Meaning your land needs to be maintained and leveled and then you can receive revenue from it 🙂

But I get your point and I do agree 👍

[mortal smelt]

LOL betray of trust? Just by changing any terms?

This is what im arguing with...

smh

[icy thicket]

Bit confusing in the wording* - Landowners will never receive revdis as defined, that is reserved for stakers

[mortal smelt]

the whole land schpiel changed and you don't bat an eye, but if something happens to the dao or whitepaper you blow a gasket come on man!

[analog inlet]

@mortal smelt

[mortal smelt]

why would land need revdis anyway, your taking my words out of context @analog inlet

[icy thicket]

DAO structure - everyone has a say in all aspects of the ecosystem

[mortal smelt]

You dont have anything constructive to say so you imply that I want revdis for landowners, our conversation did not start this way

[analog inlet]

Your the one usuing invalid termiology

[mortal smelt]

im only going against what YOU said, you cannot have a decent conversation with me

im done

this is wack, and im arguing with someone who is speaking to me in alien and not english

[analog inlet]

No you keep saying REVDIS--- all land ownger get is a ETH payout

[icy thicket]

Not invalid but it can be misleading - I didn't help with that either in this specific case

[mortal smelt]

GO BACK AND READ if you can

[analog inlet]

All you bought was the right to play a mini game an have a 5% BOnouns --- its NOT an offical investment

[mortal smelt]

you are an idiot

if you think land is not an investment

TOTALLY

[rotund reef]

Every few weeks or so, Solar checks in and says "Don't forget about ME guys!", and like moths to a flame....

[analog inlet]

Show me where it is i n the tokenomics?

[mortal smelt]

I don't name call, but you sir are saying idiotic things rn

[icy thicket]

Let's calm down a bit everyone no need for such hostility

Land is an investment, but it is different from staking

[pallid slate]

@mortal smelt can you stop caps and be respectfully plz ? So for the people trying to follow the conversation, things are nicer, ty

[analog inlet]

Mabey it some can consider it an investment my point is its not an OFFICAL investment that is recognized as Staking ILV is

[mortal smelt]

sorry i've held my tongue since the start of everything

[bitter phoenix]

We all could work collectively together to help to suggest some changes to how land and skins work in the future. It will require everyone to be constructive and build an idea that can get through the council and the team

[mortal smelt]

you must be a troll

[mortal smelt]

it won't work if some important key figures are not receptive of ideas they deem wrong

[bitter phoenix]

It requires a majority vote not a unanimous vote.

[mortal smelt]

then why didnt' it pass?

if majority voted to approve?

seriously i keep playing mind games by myself with every comment and not getting anything clear and concise we can agree on

[analog inlet]

Honestly i am jsut tried of the rants over the last couple year of landowners and there " but what about us" --- you bought your game - you will get your %5 fuel based eth pay out when the game starts ---

i have nothing against land or landowners.

i don't hate landowners
I don't hate land
I even accepted that 5% fuel based revenue got taken from the staker to pay the landowners .

I am tired of landowner over the last couple year thinking they are entitled or deserve more than they bought ---- that is what i fight against -- not land or landowner in gneral

[bitter phoenix]

People can disagree and vote against an idea but if the majority vote for an idea then the council must decide what they feel is best for the Dao. Ultimately the council and the team need to be part of the idea process and have input early so that iips are not just being created and then voted against

[rotund reef]

Yeah, there's no "we" here, it's all the council.

[mortal smelt]

sounds like a personal problem to me

[bitter phoenix]

The same could be said of beyond players always getting more and more and more

[analog inlet]

So is landowwnee have a overinflated opinion about theythey bought

[mortal smelt]

hell yeah, with the delays and many changes that my or may not stick while the price continues to plummet.

with staking you get something back, with land what the hell do they get?

[analog inlet]

too bad.. you bought you knew the risk deal with it

[mortal smelt]

this is the type of attitude that wants me to curse at you

[mortal smelt]

should they change anything to the whitepaper and you get your panties in a bunch im going to tell you the same thing, too bad you bought blah blah blah deal with it

[grave island]

or just some gamers who just want something to commemorate "i was there" like any other games.

[mortal smelt]

idiot man

stop speaking from the side of your neck man

[analog inlet]

Its true though that the nature of crypto -- i bought t a huge stake at $800 -- do you think your the only one who has had loss --- do you see me whining about all the money I have lost ? do you seem me complaining about delays ? do you see me complaining that i deserve somthing because I have not got redis yet ?

[mortal smelt]

you have been earning the whole time its not the same, you probably were gettting even more back then than now

[rotund reef]

Can you guys tell me how much longer this back-and-forth is gonna go? Appreciated.

[mortal smelt]

your comparissions are weak af

[analog inlet]

omg if you truly belive that .....wow

[mortal smelt]

alright im just gonna block this guy

sorry everyone

[analog inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-robert-downey-jr-embarrased-gif-15229880

[mortal smelt]

I will end with this, if the council doesn't get their act straight I am gone. Battleboard does little to persuade me to hold onto my land with all these issues including the council. Everything is all fun and games until its time to deliver and we are getting stuck before we can get to that stage to deliver. I hope someone can clear this up, I respect Nick and will wait for the announcements but I will not be talked down to by anyone council or team member or even the founders. Sometimes you have to draw the line in what you believe in, and this is my last straw.

[analog inlet]

If it make you feel better to trivialize me like that go ahead - does not change anything. I just step in to make my voice heard when i feel landowner being unreasonable and wanting more than was laid out in the iip - 1) play a mini game - 2) 5 % fuel based revenue in a eth payment. T

That is it . That is all you bought according to the official agreement. the fact land owner have been asking for more is to me completely unresonable

[timid basin]

Beyond players have continually increased and new incentives to buy new disks

They havent received unexpected rewards or bonuses for disks they already bought, so all the rewards were always priced in

And with ALL those rewards, disks sales have still never been lower, maybe buying disks isnt the best investment? Maybe you actually get very little for the price of disks and they need rewards to get people to even consider them?

I don’t really have a stance here except to say that its surprising that beyond players are perceived as receiving the most when they are in fact receiving the lowest value per $ spent… 🤷‍♀️

[timid basin]

On face value, this statement seems callous, uncaring and mean.

But end of the day life is callous, uncaring and mean, because that statement is a fact

I’m not opposed if the Team decide to make any kind of bonus whether for Landowners or any other, but nobody is entitled to anything not promised, no one deserves a bonus, but heck we’d all like one…

I dont think what ur saying is controversial tbh

[analog inlet]

it was said not out of malice but a statement of reality - comming form someone who has also lost money as I stated in a following sentence.

@timid basin If we are going to start compensating land owner because land has dropped , the game is dealyed , there was losses , etc etc --- then in reality everyone who has lost money need to be compensated .

this is crypto , its a crypto game that is akin to gambling very volatile .people keep tying to makes it as a web 2 game- people are going to come and lose money -- its not the DAO, Devs admin or anyone's fault but the person who risked the money

[timid basin]

sILV holders were compensated with sILV2 because there was a genuine hack that occurred and people had to be reimbursed as the security breach was the teams responsibility

Compensation is by definition also an admittance of fault and responsibility

[hexed abyss]

in terms of earning over the last year or 2 (when was 1st land sale?) so compared to buying land staking was probably the better option. what is there to believe?? 😅

[timid basin]

In $ value those that bought ILV and even staked it at max lock are still down more if were talking from the moment of the land sale

[analog inlet]

His point was i have been "earning" which is false

[timid basin]

Anywho, night guys ✌️✨

[analog inlet]

Night vet

[rotund reef]

There are people out there asking for extra perks because land value has dropped? That's weird. All I'd like personally is for the BPs to be rare like I was told they would be. If they just do that in the end, I can't complain.

[timid basin]

Who actually said they would be rare?

Was that actually officially stated? Or was that just what irresponsible content creators who hadn’t actually done their research were telling people?

If the team was saying theyd be pre-beta exclusive then dammit they should be exclusive

But if it was just assumed or rumored but never confirmed its not exactly something they have to meet (since they never promised it)

[rotund reef]

It was Keiran and Andrew. Can we post YT vids here?

[timid basin]

Should be able to

If Kieran said that with Andrew then I’d say u have a solid foundation for an IIP to have them stay true to their word…

[rotund reef]

Gimmie a sec, let me time stamp it here....

Start around 12:10 or so https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK-jtBDDWIY&list=WL&index=1&t=1075s

There were a few places that convinced me to buy during the Dutch auction. This was the one I was able to find.

[bitter phoenix]

The iip says nothing about land value or losses. It is neither stated or implied that this is a reason for the proposal and is a red herring

[rotund reef]

Yeah, things go up and down in value, that's not a reason to do anything out of the ordinary.

[timid basin]

Kieran: “Blueprints are important because theyre super rare” (this is regarding ALL blueprints, not just ones given before launch, blueprints generally are rare and hard to get and I believe scanning for them post launch will also cost money, where as now its free for these blueprints)

Kieran doesnt actually say that they are exclusively pre-open beta blueprints on offer (at least not in that segment i just saw)

[bitter phoenix]

The ever shifting sands of promises. Now it’s going to cost money to research blue prints?

[rotund reef]

The pre-open beta ones came later. I was disappointed in them since they certainly weren't rare, but if future ones are, then I'm good with it.

"Rare", "Super Rare", "Ultra Rare", "You'll be able to set the market". All incredibly exciting. Just give me that when it's time.

[bitter phoenix]

Where was this ever conveyed to land owners before the auction?

[rotund reef]

What are you referring to?

[bitter phoenix]

What vetemor just said. That it will cost money to research blue prints

[timid basin]

Always was the case…

I mean just the fact that you use resources (fuel) to scan for them, thats fuel you could be selling for real money, therefore has a real money cost to scan for blueprints

It literally costs fuel right now in the Alpha/Beta that were playing

Just the fuel isnt real…

[rotund reef]

LOL, I can't get on board with that definition.

[timid basin]

That will be a real $ value post launch

[bitter phoenix]

But presently it costs elements to research not fuel

[timid basin]

As fuel has a value

[bitter phoenix]

It costs fuel to build buildings correct?

[timid basin]

Some

Idk I dont play that much IZ tbh

[bitter phoenix]

That’s not the same as costing money to research for blueprints

[rotund reef]

It costs no money to research blueprints, provided you already have land.

It costs fuel or resources, which you can mine for free.

[timid basin]

All I know is, I have asked Kieran several times and he has confirmed that post launch scanning for blueprints will cost (whether fuel or outside currency im not sure)

IZ earns you 5% of Fuel
And gives you access to the Blueprint gatcha (similar to the OW gatcha) where u pay money to get a chance of getting something worth more

The fact were able to get blueprints totally for free and scan totally free right now is a complete added bonus…

[bitter phoenix]

Not free as our time has value

[timid basin]

You cannot research blueprints without owning land

Owning land does not allow you to research blueprints for free though, my understanding is that researching is a gatcha which costs money to search for

[timid basin]

And the oppertunity cost of not using those resources for something else etc

[rotund reef]

LOL, really guys? Okay, it does not cost any fiat and/or cryptographic tokens to scan for Blueprints. Better now?

[bitter phoenix]

Someone needs to do a montage video of all the promises pre land sale

[rotund reef]

This is the very first time I'm hearing of this Gatcha though. When did this become a thing?

[bitter phoenix]

Is all fuel sold to the pool then we have to buy it back for eth. Has that been decided yet

[timid basin]

Most of the promises people feel deceived by were promises that were assumed and not promises that the team actually stated

[bitter phoenix]

That’s kind of my point. I’ve never heard this till now

[timid basin]

Always was

[rotund reef]

Any vids on that? I don't want to turn into the "SOURCE??" guy, but that one probably slipped by 99% of us.

[bitter phoenix]

Well we’d all have to go through hundreds of hype videos to prove what was said

[timid basin]

Content creators never bring it up when they talk about land, sounds like land is the most poorly covered topic actually

I’m certain ive interviewed kieran at least once and brought that answer to public awareness

[bitter phoenix]

And always the disclaimer was added that things can change as we are a Dao

[timid basin]

Yup

[rotund reef]

Things can change of course, but if we bought on false pretenses, that's something else altogether.

[timid basin]

Having listened to a lot of those videos, a lot of stuff (especially near the end of an interview) founders end up sharing ideas that theyre having, just off the top of their head, things they havent met about maybe and certainly not finalised

Some of those changed

This is the thing with building a project like this completely out in the open

[bitter phoenix]

Sad that the community have been led to believe that they can influence forward decision making when something isn’t sitting well.

[rotund reef]

Since it's your video it may be easier to locate. That's a pretty big thing. I'd be curious to see if it was stated before or after the land sale.

[timid basin]

For the most part though, and I’ve looked into this a bunch over time, everything IZ was supposed to be is exactly whats been built, this was all how it was intended, IZ has had little to no community intervention beyond QoL feedback integrations

[bitter phoenix]

And was supposed to be completed 6 weeks after sale

[rotund reef]

Right, but what we're discussing hasn't happened yet.

This is all super-fun speculation talk.

[timid basin]

Was first meant to begin testing then

Took a bit longer

Was an irresponsible statement from a dev in discord and not an announcement or anything though, not saying thats an excuse, but yh

[timid basin]

14:18 in https://youtu.be/Urx0JPMKSYY?si=zAgaQru32nZFMwKu

[bitter phoenix]

From my point of view the fact is simple. Land owners are unhappy and have been for some time. There are many reasons for why they are unhappy. Some more valid than others. The question now falls on council and the team to work towards some form of solution or to continue to let the negativity effect the project.

I have done what I could and voiced my continued support for a workable solution to be found.

[timid basin]

The team are working to finish and release the project. Sooner launch comes, the sooner we can all be in better spirits on this.

Not sure there are any other solutions beyond better spread of information and perhaps doing community events to engage the community w better vibes, 🤷‍♀️

[rotund reef]

Not to be overly-argumentative, but 1) Kieran didn't say anything about the Gatcha. He didn't disagree with you of course, but for something that significant, I would have expected to see it highlighted somewhere. And 2) This was shot after the land sale.

[bitter phoenix]

I disagree. I believe that better education of what was promised vs what is now the current state of how things will work is the only way that land owners can asses for them selves wether or not their investment is still sound

[timid basin]

I stated it in that way as he had given me that information himself personally in a prior interview we had done a while before this interview

[rotund reef]

Either way, something like this, if it actually sticks, should have been widely known. I don't think many people know.

[timid basin]

I mean I’m yet to see someone present proof of something that was actually promised that the team has changed or decided not to deliver on

[bitter phoenix]

Then perhaps clarify these things will help to give a frame of reference for what is a valid grumble and what’s not

[mortal smelt]

Let me be ultra candid here, "if" this project fails tomorrow, up until this time everyone else has gotten paid something in return for their efforts. eg. stakers, liquidity providers, leader board winners, entire team, council, etc.

[timid basin]

If IZ owners feel so deceived and let down, surely they can find evidence of how they were deceived (in which case I will fight hard to ensure that IZ receives what was promised)

(Kieran saying “oh and wouldnt this be good idea as well” does not qualify as a promise)

(Mega Cities is one thing that actually was never promised but so many bought land with the assumption that megacities would be a thing that they decided they actually had to have them integrated and work on them to satisfy the community)

[mortal smelt]

land owners paid a premium with something promised in the future

that was supposed to start already but hasn't

[timid basin]

Whatever questions or point of clarification you have and feel others have, feel free to collate them, send me a detailed list and I’ll get them all answered for you by the team 😊

Or maybe even make it into an interview w a team member

[mortal smelt]

so yes upset can be a word to describe how people who invested into land can feel

[bitter phoenix]

All things have been delayed though

[timid basin]

This can be said for ALL investors in illuvium, especially ILV owners who have experienced now basically over 2 years of delays

[mortal smelt]

exactly, which is why I don't see why we are even arguing, can we get stuff done and not point fingers as to who feels entitled or not like come on

[rotund reef]

If you're going to make a formal complaint, do not complain about value going down or delays. You will not be taken seriously. If you feel like there were other unfulfilled promises, then pass them up the chain.

[timid basin]

Stakers rewards are completely priced in

[bitter phoenix]

No I’ve done my part. I don’t have the time to troll through hours and hours of videos. That was not my core intent or gripe tbh anyways. It was only ever about getting a commemorative skin or battleboard that was just for land owners.

[mortal smelt]

your missing the point, quit going in on "one" of my examples

[timid basin]

✌️

[bitter phoenix]

The team and council will have to gage the feedback and sentiment for themselves and decide what if anything needs to be done.

No iip will pass at present to change this imo

[rotund reef]

This gatcha thing has me all over the place. This is certainly something you would want to make very clear to as many people as possible.

[timid basin]

Do I think they should have made it more explicitly clear? Yes I do

I’m a big fan of things being super explicit and everything to be super clear for all

G’night y’all, hope I helped in some way 🫶✨

[bitter phoenix]

Gn vet

[bitter phoenix]

At this point I don’t think we will get any clarification on much until pb3. The team is too focused on getting the games out and I guess see how the economy evolves.

[rotund reef]

True. I can see some hell being raised if this gatcha thing comes up though. I doubt hardly anyone knew.

[cyan bone]

What gatcha mechanic are you referring to?

[bitter phoenix]

I’ve never heard that but I guess we will see

[rotund reef]

I do my Due Diligence heavy, and didn't see anything about it anywhere.

[rotund reef]

Scroll up a bit

[bitter phoenix]

You would need to scroll up through vetemors chat

[cyan bone]

o.0 yeah I just read the message

[mortal smelt]

If I were new to Illuvium and just learning about it and stumbled into the discord to read up on what kind of an investment IZ would be, the comments from some councils would make me run and retreat, and I question is this what we are intending for mass adoption?

[bitter phoenix]

Are you able to confirm that this is indented?

[mortal smelt]

I don't see it as a positive take which is why I am pushing back so hard with some of the language being used to describe the situation and the people themselves.

[bitter phoenix]

For me personally I still believe that land will be good in the future. I stand by my decision to buy and hold. Just the same as my ilv tokens.

[mortal smelt]

I never asked for anything, yet im being spoken to as if I am pushing for free stuff. it is just absurd

[bitter phoenix]

Bear markets are tough and delays are hard to swallow but the project is still here and the team is still working incredibly hard. Many projects won’t be in as good a shape

[cyan bone]

It was always the case that the player would spend resources to scan & research blueprints.

It was always the case that once a blueprint NFT was held on a player account it could be sold, traded, held or used in crafting of a skin.

It was always the case that a blueprint NFT could be used alongside resources to craft skins in the other games.

Can you confirm are we aligned on this @bitter phoenix ?

[rotund reef]

I'm not Splendor, but so far so good, yeah

[mortal smelt]

I believe what was mentioned was that land owners would have to pay extra fuel costs or equivalent to get blueprints. if i'm wrong someone correct me

[cyan bone]

If that was stated somewhere it certainly wasn't from the team?

[empty path]

Are you saying we have to pay in ETH to scan?

[cyan bone]

No

That's never been discussed.

[empty path]

Oh okay, then continue what you are doing. I’m not reading all this

[rotund reef]

This came from Vetemor, who mentioned it to Kieran in the posted video above. Kieran did not correct him. Vetemor later tells me that it was brought up in a video before that, and before the land sale.

[bitter phoenix]

Yes my understanding was always that it would cost some fuel to build buildings. Elements to scan and research. Once a blueprint was found it would have to be taken into the open world to be crafted into a skin. The skin would require fuel illuvials and other consumables to craft. The blueprint can be used over and over again but the consumables are obviously consumed and a skin is the nft in their place

[cyan bone]

As a player I decide how I want to spend the fuel I generate on my land..

I can Scan & Research Blueprints, I can stockpile Fuel and sell it via the Fuel Exchange, I can continue to improve my land and build structures.

[bitter phoenix]

Read vets comments

[rotund reef]

It's not that. The way I understood it was you would have to spend ETH or sILV2 or something like that to play a game to see if you would be able to mint a skin or not.

[empty path]

Listen to last town hall, council has no idea what is being made 😆

[bitter phoenix]

At this point it feels like none of us do

[mortal smelt]

I don't like condescending people

or attitudes

especially in a place of power

[wary prism]

Scanning has a chance to fail. Research has a chance to fail. If successful there is a chance of getting high or low tier/stage. This is what vet is referring to.

[rotund reef]

I hope this is correct, but it's not what it sounded like.

[empty path]

Nick just told you it’s not like this so not sure what else you want him to say. I’m done since we are already going down the road of attitudes.

[bitter phoenix]

Vet was kind of inferring something a bit different I think and we we’re seeking clarification on it

[rotund reef]

Was referring to this here.....

You cannot research blueprints without owning land

Owning land does not allow you to research blueprints for free though, my understanding is that researching is a gatcha which costs money to search for

Now if by "money" he just meant resources or fuel, then disregard.

[empty path]

And Nick clarified

[cyan bone]

The only 'cost' is that it costs 'fuel' you have produced on your Land

[bitter phoenix]

Yes he has

[cyan bone]

You will not be asked to spend ETH or SILV2 alongside the fuel that you have generated on your Land

The 'cost' is due to the fact that same fuel could be sold on the Fuel Exchange to OV players

[empty path]

https://tenor.com/view/that's-all-folks-gif-12888845408589301440

[rotund reef]

This is what I was looking for, thank you. Vetemor considers the free fuel I mined today as "money", and that made me all confused. And rightfully so! 😉

[cyan bone]

Yep, no issues at all

I think Vet is referring to the 'opportunity cost'

[trail forge]

As long as fuel is liquid then it is basically money

[bitter phoenix]

Also the cost could come from a different type of fuel is required than what your land produces. Ie Solon is for crafting

[rotund reef]

We're done going down this road.

[bitter phoenix]

Not really but never mind

[cyan bone]

as far as I'm aware 'opportunity cost' can mean,

I can use X Y Z fuels to craft a blueprint and sell it on the Illuvidex

or

I can sell X Y Z fuels on the Fuel Exchange and sell it for ETH

Be right back, heading for lunch 🫡

[bitter phoenix]

I don’t think any of us were confused about how all that worked until vet said what he did. Anyway you have confirmed how it works

[rotund reef]

Yep, and he said "ETH and sILV2", I just rewatched it. And Kieran did not correct.

Damn that Vetemor!!

[bitter phoenix]

Lol

[bitter phoenix]

How i describe it above is how you understood it correct?

[rotund reef]

"Above" is a big place tonight. Can you specify?

[cyan bone]

Mind linking me to the video sorry? I'll listen as I drive

[empty path]

Seems like Nick saying this isn’t enough. @noble quest will you need ETH / sILV2 to craft skins or research blueprints?

[rotund reef]

Here it is

[cyan bone]

Definitely not Research Biodata to Create Blueprints

Forging the Blueprint into a Skin requires resources above simply owning the Blueprint

The resources can be acquired from Land, or purchased with ETH /SILV2

[empty path]

Nick, go eat.

[cyan bone]

I think is the confusion

[cyan bone]

Okay sorry

[bitter phoenix]

We don’t want hangry Nick

[empty path]

lol Nick only knows love

[mortal smelt]

I think the council has some prima donnas that need a good reality check. 100% my opinion

[bitter phoenix]

Discord is full of interesting personalities. It’s part of the charm

[mortal smelt]

no truer words said, touche

[bitter phoenix]

Resources other than fuel need to be acquired from the open world or the illuvidex. The illuvials and other materials such as gems ect won’t come from land.

[mortal mural]

I more confused now than before. You guys went crazy, there is like an entire chapter of kdrama in the last hour.

[bitter phoenix]

Just read the bits from Nick. He has confirmed how it all works

[mortal mural]

🙏 thx I’ll do that

[trail forge]

Can pretty much repeat this for all of discord and it'd be good advice

[bitter phoenix]

Well he does kind of know stuff right

[cyan bone]

I'm double checking with Aaron but this has always been my understanding, yes.

Regarding the additional resources required in the Craft

Blueprint + OV materials = Skin

Okay lunchtime.

[bitter phoenix]

Enjoy. I hope you got something tasty

[iron laurel]

Mega Cities were in the Illuvium Land Sale Explained Document that was presented before land sale. Quote from the document:
Mega-Cities

Mega-cities are a confirmed feature of Illuvium: Zero, and our game design team is working on the details.

Here are some of the expected features:

A player creates a Mega-City by owning and merging adjoining Land Plots into square blocks; proposed sizes are 2x2 and 3x3. The DAO may support other sizes or shapes in the future.

There are no fees for moving Resources between different plots; your Mega-City counts as one Plot

Landmark benefits of one plot apply to the entire Mega-City (and can stack if you are fortunate enough to have multiple T3 or T4s with the same Landmark type in your Mega-City).

Structures are shared, meaning you can make more space for value-producing Structures. For example, players only need one Engineering Lab and one Quantum Fabricant for the entire Mega-City, saving 90 grid squares on a 3x3 Mega-City.

There may be some Mega-City only features in the future.

[bitter phoenix]

Thanks for digging this up

[empty path]

https://tenor.com/view/lion-king-gif-5650435

[iron laurel]

Yeah, I think right now it's probably best for me to just go to sleep. 🤣

[vivid cipher]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[devout panther]

something like that, yes

[devout panther]

Thanks, but please with this kind of people in the council, how illuvium can be a great game? These people don't really know what they're doing or saying. It is really incompetence. I'm not talking about devs or those who work (I mean those who really work) but about these peoplewho didn't understand the idea of the project, or maybe it's me. Is the idea to have a balanced ecosystem between different applications or steal as much money as possible in all the different projects?

[devout panther]

i love illuvium, but after reading these comments I will start selling everything slowly, I can not invest in any project of illuvium with these clowns who make decisions, IZ IB OW and other,

[devout panther]

I don't want to be offensive, but I think there is a huge communication problem on many levels, may I know on what basis these members are chosen? If a person is very good at playing and is competent in gameplay, why does he talk about investments? I'm sorry that what certain board members say ruins other people's hard work.

[devout panther]

I don't even have much land, I have many more ILVs and IBs and everything in any case is dropped but I accept it as an early project, bear market and other things. What I cannot accept are these phrases. I think it is an INVESTMENT and as such I did not want to sell anything, but for illuvium it is a long-term investment, with these people you can not think in the long term.Maybe I earn even more with the token and IB than with IZ, but when I bought the land I thought I was buying an important piece of the ecosystem, and reading these sentences I seem to have thrown away the money. I can't imagine thinking who has invested a lot in these financial assets what NFTs are, even if not recommendable.

[ocean haven]

I think this prove the main mainstreams point very well we bacisly just bought overpriced stuff, and now getting laughed at by the DAO

[cerulean steppe]

Our internal "Fight for ETH" is probably the biggest risk to Illuvium at the moment. Money has the potential to destroy families and communities and we could face the same destiny.

Not sure what the solution is at the moment, other than aligning us along the same goals again.

In the past it was just ILV everyone was invested in, now with IB (less so) and ILZ we are divided into different factions fighting for their own turf. And with DAO councils we have poured even more oil into this fire.

We need quick solutions to get out of this infighting.
The only solution I see:

1. ILV Stakers should get land proportional to their stake
2. Land owners should get ILV staking for their land

Basically unifying ILV staking and land ownership.

The calculations are difficult, but we only have to fight this out once and then we are aligned again.

Land and ILV are both investments and we should not have 2 different types of investments.

[timid basin]

Both Land and ILV are different investments with different risk profiles

Everyone has invested in what they want to invest in (or a mix that they prefer)

Forcing people to have more of the assets they didnt choose to invest in will likely just result in them selling these new given assets for the assets they want more of (so we’d end up exactly where we are now)

The main solution for Unity is for IZ owners and ILV stakers to both wake up and realise they both have the same incentives already…

Legit zero point to actual in-fighting when we are all sharing the same incentives, its not rational to fight

[timid basin]

Much thanks, guess really is everything they said is just what they did

[timid basin]

What I think is unclear is whether you’re just giving up the oppertunity to earn more fuel from your land and using those resources to scan for blueprints instead

Or if ur actually outright paying to scan #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

But either way, ur still essentially paying to scan, even if its just in opportunity cost

[timid basin]

https://tenor.com/view/heart-love-gif-26215285

[ancient nacelle]

can someone summarise what has been discussed in the last day or so? Are mega cities still a thing or no?

[cerulean steppe]

It is about aligning our interests. We don't have the same incentives already. You can see this from all these discussions we are having.

There could be a lock on those assets you get to prevent selling them immediately. The same we have with staking rewards.

But you are right. I made the wrong decision to buy land, it is my fault believing this would become the nexus of all economic activity.

[mortal smelt]

It’s not your fault that it was advertised in such a way.

ALL councils are getting paid, team is getting paid, everyone up until this point in the process of making this game has gotten paid. So can we listen to the voices that didn’t get paid but paid for your right to work?

It’s amazing these people don’t have the decency to stop talking without understanding the situation

They are making their own bed and the game isn’t even out yet smh

Out of touch reality

Some of these people have never heard of customer service nor experienced it. And it shows.

[cerulean steppe]

Maybe you are right, they must have also known that the so called mini game wasn't even close to an alpha version, but advertised it as such.

So far I have been pretty tolerant to delays, but no longer, when I see that land still produces nothing at all (not even a battleboard skin) while ILV Stakers still enjoy staking rewards.

[mortal smelt]

They choose to ignore this to repeat the echo chamber

People acting like we don’t work hard to make the money to purchase literal “crap” in the eyes of some council members

The deal with it attitude is what is going to turn A LOT of people away good freaking job

[cerulean steppe]

Yes

[mortal smelt]

I busted my ass to work for that money to buy all the stuff, you can’t handle my type of job so sit your ass down.

Take notes and do a better job or quit that position because you are NOT qualified to hold that position

[cerulean steppe]

The problem with land in its current form is that it isn't actually needed at all for all these other games to function.

If they dropped land completely nobody playing Overworld or Arena would even notice.

[mortal smelt]

I see far too often these people crossing boundaries with no recourse attacking the people promoting, buying Illuvium products.

No need to keep throwing it in the face of people who bought the land though, like you want these people to sell at a loss? Is that the real goal here?

The DAO is supposed to be taken seriously as it is needed to legally safeguard regulation, but this is a joke.

[cerulean steppe]

Guess what they would say, if the team told them the staking rewards had to be delayed, because the staking UI isn't looking good enough.

But we as land owners are supposed to accept the fact that we don't get anything for our land for years and then they let the DAO decide over fuel mechanics and we as land owners don't even have voting rights for the DAO and even if we had them, we could only vote for council members.

Pretty ridiciulous setup. To say the least.

This DAO legal thing is bullshit. If this was needed to avoid regulation, they would need to open up all software development decisions to the DAO.

[mortal smelt]

Why is this? Because any ICO in the eyes of the SEC is considered illegal.

[mortal smelt]

That trust me bro ain’t working no more

[cerulean steppe]

The funny thing: Wasn't the SEC created because of a prior land sale that rugged mainstream investors?

[mortal smelt]

It’s like everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room

[mortal smelt]

Let’s not take it that far lol

Time wise

Giving something away to hold investors hostage until open beta is not the way to do it

Do something that will at least hold its value because of X Y Z.

With all the talk from some councils I don’t even want the BPs and battle board (because of the constant cries of free loader talk),do something that will keep the value of land stable. Where are my math people at?

[cerulean steppe]

Especially when there was always the talk about Illuvium not giving away expensive NFTs before the games start. How did this work for land?

[mortal smelt]

Is this really a DAO? Or just skirting around the law and everyone’s play thing?

I don’t want opinions at this point, you need to show me facts.

Let’s see if everyone’s definition of transparency is the same.

[mortal smelt]

they did give away promo cards didnt' they?

[hoary forge]

Only to learn the game. But you get nothing from the f2p plot.

You can get blueprints from your land plot that you bought. But nothing from the f2p plot

[storm trout]

this is what I'm checking on, too. I know there's supposed to be a minting window towards the end of the season, but can't find any more information on how to mint or when the end of season is, don't want to miss out

[gloomy quarry]

well, seems like the battleboard proposal is rip, voting ends tomorrow and is currently 1-3. i guess we wont get to inflate our assets and become ultra rich by 1 battleboard skin. ggwp

[still vine]

Date of mint and process hasn’t been announced yet. Once that window is open I am sure there will be announcements made on discord, Twitter, and by email.

[vivid cipher]

Any numbers comparing land prices to ILV price over time?

Total land market cap should be around 5% of the total ILV market cap. My guess is that the floor for land prices are above that.

But I could be wrong. It’s a full on guess

ILV MC $232m.
5% of that is $11.6m
20,000 lands puts each land (if all were the same tier) at $580.

**Response to “But ILV gets staking rewards?” **

They do. Which actually just means an ILV holder has had to face significant inflation and therefore dilution of their value. While land holders have not. If anything there’s been minor land deflation (lost wallet keys).

[worldly flume]

My story is that i bought an ilv when it was in the hundreds. I staked it and it got locked for 1 year. Since then years passed and the cost of the gas fee is not worth to claim the stake. So i kind of forgot about that ilv and this week i bought a t1 land. 🤷‍♂️

[mortal smelt]

tell that to my purchase price to what the floor is rn, if there would be an emergency I would have to list it WAY below floor to get it sold

Have I earned anything with my land thus far?

If a simple sorry would have solved this problem, it would be case closed. But apparently not.

you bringing a general rationalization and unfair comparison is what rubs me the wrong way.

like make it more realistic to compare to the sentiment, everything said just feels out of touch with what is going on rn.

80%+ loss to sell my land immediately makes no sense at all

Unlike Stakers who got to participate in that part of the ecosystem land owners have yet to do that and get any rewards

[cerulean steppe]

The only reason land has hold up its value somewhat is our past tolerance towards delays and land can't be sold as easily as a bunch of tokens.

This doesn't have to stay that way, especially when our million dollars are seen as a second class investment or no investment at all.

We are long term investors, not ILV traders.

[mortal smelt]

regardless of inflation the land keeps diluting

plus on top of that with more delays it means more time that land owners cannot get any rewards, which will definitely result in a crash in price as being able to play it LIVE is what is keeping this thing going.

If you are going to offer anything do it without having your council members go around and give land holders a hard time for receiving something for being early adopters, or whatever you intend to call it. I am guessing those that are opposed to this haven't been in the Web3 space long imo.

[dire pier]

Or they just understand economics. Handouts come from somewhere. Let the devs finish the game. You can dump your land and get your money back then.

[mortal smelt]

lol who is stopping them from finishing the work? me? you? land owners?

[dire pier]

It's so silly the mindset people have after coming up in the entitlement age.

[mortal smelt]

again I reiterate I don't want anything but the game to be started

[dire pier]

Cool

[mortal smelt]

but if they want to do something don't do it and call it out at the same time

its counterintuitive

if your not going to do it, don't do it, simple as that

get the game done

period and forget people whining while you are getting stuff done

I don't need more excuses about this and that about delays and issues, just get it done

and stop giving such crappy timelines for things to hype people up

the reason people have unrealistic expectations is because of the unrealistic timelines and pitch that was given.

Everyone is always on the offensive and defensive instead of trying to figure things out, there are a few community leaders that reached out and I really appreciate it that there are those who really care about how the community feels rather than try to pick useless fights in chats, repeating the same thing over and over.

What is the point of being a community leader if you can't freaking lead?

If you can't handle the heat, take a seat

[radiant sky]

400+ messages... any new Info in between that?

[mortal smelt]

negatory, same storyline

[tardy falcon]

Pretty spicy in here recently. The general vibe seems to be anger over land valuation dropping hard and little reward for holding that land all this time.

Def sux to see. I’ve watched my 6 lands prices dwindle. But I’ve also watched my illuvitars prices dwindle… and my Ilv prices dwindle.

Total investment around $75k down to abt $45k. Pretty sickening. But also I knew the risks… earlier this year I came to terms that games take a long time to develop and chose to accept there could be more delays.

That said, it is nice to receive rewards for Ilv staking. It is nice to receive rewards for beyond leaderboards. Land doesn’t get much love other than 15 bps and maybe a bb skin eventually. Would have been cool to receive some kind of Land staking rewards also over time. Could have been like how SLP is to Ilv staking. Where Land owners could receive something for holding until mining fuel actually starts. Like SLP yields more while people wait til rev dis starts.

In general tho… ppl just seem bored and looking to other projects or need liquidity and end up dumping or are discouraged by the missed dates. I don’t like it for sure… but I still believe the game will be fun and played when it launches…. So that’s why I diamond hand.

One of the things that I’ve always felt about illuvium is that it’s potential downfall is people’s egos and the damage caused by needing to be right.

My 2 cents

[radiant sky]

BB skin was declined yesterday by gaming subcouncil

[mortal smelt]

It is ok if I was the only one that loves Illuvium, but the fact that I have been promoting it heavily especially the timelines when it is given from the official source makes it look bad all around. I just won't promote it for now, just feel stupid for giving dates myself. should have known better.

With all the professionals that they hired how can you be off a whole quarter though, they should have been given more thought into it. seems it was made to create hype for Illuvitars wave 2 launch from the way it looks.

and announce the delay at the time of instead of earlier making the wait for it even that much more like wtf

[cerulean steppe]

I wonder what will happen to Beyond once Wave 3 and 4 are finished.

Will the councils actually vote for a Beyond game?

If not, Beyond value will drop a lot.

[mortal smelt]

This is land chat lets focus on this before we get side tracked

[cerulean steppe]

Ok

[mortal smelt]

Can we get a guarantee that 1Q 2024 will be legit? No, and this is where we stand as of now.

[lethal wyvern]

DMs are scams

Mods and Team members will never DM you.
Never trust advice or links received in DMs.

Beta access, giveaways, and promotions are not given out via DM. Scams are designed to trick you into installing malicious software to gain access to your wallet or to convince you to enter your seed phrase into a website. Never give your private key (12 to 24-word seed phrase) to anyone.

Support is not provided via DMs

Support is handled publicly, or in threads within the Illuvium Discord. People offering support via DM are scammers.

Please follow the instructions pinned in #report-scammers to report bad actors so we can remove them from the server.

[potent dock]

and announce the delay at the time of instead of earlier making the wait for it even that much more like wtf
This isn't really true - Waiting to announce the delay is disingenous, and could cause people to schedule time off the play. It's absolutely better to announce any delay ASAP when it's known that a timeline won't be met, and that's what happened.

[mortal smelt]

I beg to differ, it is Q4 2023 ser and the announcement to delay came out

[potent dock]

I know there's a lot of frustration about delays, and that makes sense. People are allowed to be upset.

I will contend that the main thing that will address those concerns is getting the games live, and the best way to do that is to not be adding additional scope to products. Every time we add something, it means the team needs to incorporate that new reward or system into the development pipeline, and that obviously takes some amount of time.

[mortal smelt]

unless that news was told earlier I never heard it, if it was said before then I apologize

[mortal smelt]

I never requested anything from the team but to complete the open beta

the fact that council members assume that every land holder believes this is just ridiculous

I don't care for the extra stuff

personally

[potent dock]

Well you seemed pretty upset earlier that the game sub-council had voted against it.

You were questioning whether we were even a DAO.

[mortal smelt]

So tell me why am I being subjegated to these accusations when I am not even in full support of it?

[mortal smelt]

I was trying to represent the feelings of the land owners as to find a middle ground

[potent dock]

I'm not accusing you of anything, aside from being upset, which I believe is accurate.

[mortal smelt]

the ones that are upset anyway

[mortal smelt]

because of the childish acting that has trasnpired

how can I take it seriously when im being taken as a joke

do you understand where i'm coming from?

[potent dock]

If I regarded you as a joke, I wouldn't be here talking with you.

I don't know specifically what childish acting you're referring to though, no.

[mortal smelt]

not you, please stop taking it like im talking about you

[potent dock]

I'm not taking it any way - I'm drinking coffee and trying to understand your concerns.

[mortal smelt]

Council members coming in here and saying stuff about people wanting free stuff, etc. this is not a way to keep a conversation going

my only concern really is the release of the game

there is no answer to that

[wide salmon]

Will progress be wiped before game launch?

[mortal smelt]

yes

[potent dock]

I can't speak for every council member, but I know many I spoke with were concerned that adding additional rewards had potential to add additional delays. We often think of the launch of Open Beta as a sort of finish line, but we're a live service game. There will absolutely be more work to be done after launch, and so I think at least some people were coming at the problem from that perspective - Not adding additional work to be completed, so that the team can focus on getting us launched.

[mortal smelt]

Maybe my mindset is thinking in broader terms than what some other people are thinking is the disconnect.

[mortal smelt]

I don't know who was advocating for it, but it surely wasn't me. So you are telling me right now the delay in open beta is due to the allocation of work to produce these additional rewards???

If that is the case SCRAP IT

If it means we get open beta earlier, i'm all for stopping that in its tracks

but that is not the case here

make it make sense to me please

[potent dock]

The battleboard proposal got voted down, so no, I'm not telling you the delay is because of it.

It had no impact on development, aside from whatever amount of time the team consulted with council about it.

[mortal smelt]

so what is the basis of this text then?

we are going in circles, I am just going to have to agree to disagree and we may have to part this way.

It is not like I do not understand where the team, DAO and council are coming from, but when you look at it from the other way around its not so much

[potent dock]

You said:

Council members coming in here and saying stuff about people wanting free stuff, etc. this is not a way to keep a conversation going

I responded with a potential reason that proposal got voted down. Council members do give their reasoning in #📯〕council-chambers

It seems like the core of your concern is that PB3 got delayed. That's a valid way to feel, and I understand.
I'm just not sure how this is related to your comments about whether we're a DAO or not.

I also understand that you'd like more professional communication from council members, and that land owners don't deserve to have their motives or character questioned for putting forward proposals.

[cerulean steppe]

There is no risk of an additional delay, if e.g. land holders were promised retroactive fuel staking rewards to be paid out when IL:Z goes live.

It is just a IIP that would need to get passed now and implementation can take time.

[mortal smelt]

If this is a DAO I expect professionalism to a certain point, plain and simple

[mortal smelt]

always seems the IIP needs to get passed before work is done

[potent dock]

Retroactive fuel staking rewards sounds like a lot of work, frankly. There's no staking program for land, and part of the basis for land is that what you get out of it depends on what you've done in game.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that treating "after open beta" as an infinite bucket we can put scope in is a dangerous way to operate.

[mortal smelt]

how many roadmaps have changed, can we just give a broader one and leave it at that?

[potent dock]

This is a DAO, plain and simple. Token holders elect council every 6 months, and have recourse to remove council members through VONC processes.

[mortal smelt]

So no ethics once your in, gotcha

[potent dock]

Defining and mandating ethics is extremely difficult to do, but it has been something we've been thinking about this epoch.

[mortal smelt]

I am keen on this

you want to be wild and free, become a content creator not a council memeber

[potent dock]

We could talk about it more, but this probably isn't the right forum. #1059914967161241640 message

[cerulean steppe]

It is not that difficult. Just give land owners 10% for as long as we had to wait. Then drop it back to 5%.

[potent dock]

Delays negatively impact everyone, taking a punitive approach to ILV holders (5% extra from revenue from A to B) doesn't make much sense.

I'll contend again that the real solution isn't a complicated reallocation of rewards away from the original structure, it's just getting the games launched.

[cerulean steppe]

No, land holders are most affected, because we bought land which has been dead capital for years.

We gave the DAO free money for many years. The DAO doesn't even pay us interest.

ILV Stakers continue to get staking rewards.

It is not complicated. Just a parameter.

[potent dock]

Do you believe that doubling land revdis would be fair, at the cost of ILV holders?

Delays have negatively impacted everyone - There are ILV holders who bought at high triple digits and low quad digits, certainly those individuals are worse off than land holders now. SLP stakers with higher APR have to contend with IL, and the low double to single digit APR on ILV only certainly hasn't put those people ahead.

I'd contend that it's extremely complicated to make fair changes to the base tokenomics after the fact - It's something I'd be very wary about.

Framing this as group vs. group internally is not an accurate or fair way to view this, and it just leads to the toxicity and vitriol we've been seeing. It's born from emotion, not logic. ILV holders didn't cause the delays, nor did land owners. Both ILV holders and land owners benefit from a game launch, and from development being allocated to making the games as good as possible.

[jovial haven]

I have a Tier 1 plot now, thinking about maybe buying Tier 2 later.. u guys think its worth?

[mortal smelt]

ILV holders will benefit the most, as they will and have accumulated the rewards and with launch it would increase the value of said tokens giving them a head start.

[cerulean steppe]

My answer is simple:

If it is possible to change fuel sale mechanics (IIP-39), which requires much implementation, it should also be possible to change the % from 5 to 10, which requires almost no implementation.

Don't you see the difference? Land as hold value because we don't speculate like ILV traders do. We don't leverage etc.

We paid for land that has no value until the game has been released in open beta.

ILV pays a dividend no matter how long the games are delayed or until rewards run out.

[radiant sky]

definetly not 🙂

i gues the dude who bought t4 at 75 eth would argue with that tripple digits ilv buyers about what investement was worse 🙃

[mortal smelt]

we can get points across without throwing jabs

lets be civil

Everyone has a point and it should be noted

[jade ruin]

when new database??

[mortal smelt]

for?

[potent dock]

Is it technically possible? Probably.

It's extremely slippery ground to make changes like this though, particularly since we have absolutely no data on performance of land compared to ILV post launch.

In games like Fortnite, skins comprise on the order of 60% of revenue.

It's pretty speculative to determine that land is strictly worse than ILV. What is true is that they are different products, and delays haven't been kind to either of them. It is true that land doesn't get staking rewards, and it's also true that it was never sold or marketed as something that would get staking rewards.

If land is outperforming ILV post-launch, should we change it so that a % of skins revenue goes to ILV holders if they are behind?

That's why proposing changes like this are complicated, and why I'm personally inclined to not make sweeping changes on the basis of pre-launch assumptions.

[mortal smelt]

I say why not give a % if it helps out everyone in the end?😵‍💫

It is easy to say things, but if you haven't programmed or developed anything in your life before, you should try it first then come back to the question at hand.

It is not as clear as cut and paste

[potent dock]

The basis of this question isn't technical, and this is super off-topic.

Giving a % doesn't help everyone in the end, it helps land owners and costs ILV stakers.

[mortal smelt]

I know was being sarcastic, should put an emoji next to it or something

[potent dock]

Sarcasm - The bane of text based communication 😛

[jade ruin]

for iluvials

new illuvials

[mortal smelt]

nothing until open beta bud

[devout panther]

To increase the % of revenue for land owners, can it be a solution to give a boost to the lands with IB collection? To give a stupid example if you have completed the two waves (at least 10k of investment) you have a 2/3% more revenue by increasing the efficiency of the converters, or something like that in this way both systems increase their utility

[mortal smelt]

You want them to work on your idea which could possibly delay the open beta further, would you be ok with that? I am sure there are many who wouldn't be too happy.

[devout panther]

I don't know the technical times, and I'm definitely not saying to delay the open beta for this thing, but having land I would be incentivized to buy IB and vice versa because I extract more fuel, in this way I would have a slightly higher %, this increases the intrinsic value of the lands and the illuviatar, generating demand and therefore also earnings for the DAO, and would be a connection between two ecosystems of illuvium

[mortal smelt]

Every idea that has been presented does this, it is understandable that the team and council get the feeling land owners feel "entitled"

to be serious if you were that serious about it you would have examples, charts and code to bring to the table with your argument, but it is just that, talk.

[fickle goblet]

ILV holders could've sold at anytime, land owners were the most trapped. The illuvidex not having an offer feature to create liquidity was the last straw for me, now I'm just waiting for a good exit whenever it comes

[mortal smelt]

@devout panther they have a channel for ideas if you want to share it there. #1020759212172775464

The question we all should be asking is what can WE do to help make open beta come faster

[fickle goblet]

Nothing much. Imagine being fleeced and still be willing to devote time and effort

[timid basin]

NFTs are by their nature less liquid than a token

[fickle goblet]

Mainly responding to the statement that ILV holders had it worse

[devout panther]

I agree with you, but you have to think long-term and even after open beta, and the value and therefore the use of a land must be valued. The price is dropped a lot and still 80k of land has to be sold

[mortal smelt]

there is always time after the fact, I want this on the blockchain yesterday

[devout panther]

Then I work with in the company budget, I could not make a spreadsheet of what I say, it was simply an idea that if someone likes it can work on it, otherwise I will be happy to see better ideas to increase the value of land in the future after the open beta

[devout panther]

i dont understand

[potent dock]

The intention was to say that reallocating where revenue goes right now legitimately won't solve anyone's concerns. Getting games to market is the best solution, and right now the best thing we can do to facilitate that as a DAO is to not ask for things that add scope.

Bear markets aren't good for anyone - I'm not saying land owners or ILV stakers are better or worse off, I'm sure we could pull examples of where either scenario is true. Yes, there's less liquidity for NFTs than for tokens. Yes, many ILV tokens were locked in staking during the peak of the bull.

The solution is to launch games though, not to start backpedaling on fundamental tokenomics before they've even seen the light of day.

[fickle goblet]

I see, and I fully agree. Just to add, we should eventually be able to renegotiate whatever via the dao (for example re the selling of 80k more plots) as the economics are vastly different in certain times and some flexibility would go a long way. Applies to everything else

[vivid cipher]

My apologies if it seemed I was gunning for anyone or anything in particular. I’m actually just curious about the price comparison. Comparing land to ILV has always been my way of looking at the two things. And in game revenue is the one thing that we actually have that can be used to compare. 95% for ILV stakers and 5% for land players.

I’ve also felt that lands most significant value proposition was its rarity.

The initial timeline for land was a super bad look especially in hindsight.

I wonder if it would be possible to stake lands in the flash pool?

[mortal mural]

i think we were all too excited about lands at that time, community as a whole. Every move on the project has risks, every investment has risks. nothing is guaranteed.

[dire pier]

Lands in a flash pool sounds great

[mortal mural]

i thought about the same, but then i remember i got a game lol. so staking? maybe? we should spurt out all the option and choose what is best for the project-community as a whole

[vivid cipher]

Its weird. But would be a losing proposition for most.

[mortal mural]

i know there is a way, there is always a way. we just need to get creative much harder.

[sharp elk]

Anything that gives financial value to ILZ land holders takes value away from another group of Illuvium investors.

As you say. Investing in ILZ lands was a risk.

For people to complain that their investment in lands didn’t go as they expected… sure. Just ask any holder of NFTs whether their NFT investments went as expected.

[mortal smelt]

I don't know, if the hype was not there and the timelines and dates that were repeatedly changed not presented, there wouldn't be an issue imo.

The argument before any issues is that Illuvium is different from other games, AAA, yada yada

when there is an issue, we go to "just ask any holder of NFTs"

I really don't know what to take from that

I only speak the truth

and yes some of these people requesting things is out of line, like wayyyyyyy out in the next galaxy type stuff.

so from my understanding is that open beta is being delayed because of PvP, am I getting that correct?

I can clearly see councils are tired of seeing the same type of arguments with IZ land owners, but you aren't exactly making it easier to do so by fighting fire with fire

you can scoff at the reason but it doesn't change the fact that those certain dates were touted by the team

another delay and it is going to feel like groundhogs day

I didn't pay thousands just so I could play repetitively a game with no purpose, if that was the case I would have bought a PS5

[sharp elk]

You made an investment. Much like with the people who invested in the token, delays have impacted the value of that investment.

People can and will complain.
That’s fine.

Just don’t expect other people who have also lost money to want to give you some of their money to help you feel better.

[mortal smelt]

look your getting paid regardless if this project fails or not, so don't tell me about getting money. I never asked for anything and don't want anything, so what is your purpose of saying this to me?

what am i asking from others? what money am I asking for?

[sharp elk]

You seem confused.

You think I’m on the council?

[mortal smelt]

oh sorry, just that its been only council members responding to me so i automatically assumed, apologies.

But do tell me how I am trying to extract value from anyone in this community

[mortal smelt]

Please elaborate

It is amazing the things people will say and not elaborate, if someone else reads your comments they would assume I am trying to extract some sort of value from people.

[mortal mural]

Whats is your proposal? Increasing from 5% to 10% the amount paid to land owners from fuel sell? Free market fuel?

[mortal smelt]

?

you talking to me?

[mortal mural]

Yes, I not able to read the whole chat I’m sorry for lack of time

I just wanna know

[mortal smelt]

I request nothing but to get open beta started

i don't want no BPs, battleboards, ILV, whatever else anyone can think of

I just want to be ONLINE

[mortal mural]

Maybe we can ask Kieran in an interview?

Or aaron

[mortal smelt]

look last AMA didn't answer anything for me

didn't even get a chance to get in my questions

[sharp elk]

That is true of everybody I think.

[mortal smelt]

tired of all the softball questions

[mortal smelt]

no its not, and it shows

[mortal mural]

What did team answer to this? I mean the reason for delay.

[sharp elk]

Who doesn’t want the game to come out?

[mortal smelt]

the more you add to it and try to manuever how something should launch you create more problems

[sharp elk]

The only people I can think of is people who are shorting ILV. That would be very very few at these prices.

[mortal mural]

I didn’t play my lands. I am now. I would actually like a month or two to play before open beta. But if open beta release I lo just play too.

[tender island]

Hello, i just started checking this project, any recommendations where to start, like i saw price action from 2021 till now it looks awful but i like the small float of tokens in termsit doesnt require much to move the price. All in all i would be grateful if someone would tell me couple of words on this project and introduce me to potential materials or sites to check some statistics

[mortal smelt]

I am not someone to blindly follow any particular group, or person

[sharp elk]

So who do you think doesn’t want the game to launch?

You think the team is deliberately stringing things along? For what reason?

[mortal smelt]

The transparency apparently is not so transparent, not everything is discussed

[mortal smelt]

your misinterpreting what I am saying because you want to believe what you want to believe. In the greater context of things OW, Wave 1, Wave 2, PvP, then open beta? or is there going to be another obstacle?

Do you understand where i'm getting at?

or you still want to keep thinking in your own tunnel vision

[sharp elk]

If I understood what you are saying I wouldn’t ask you to clarify.

You seem to be implying that the team don’t want the game to launch.

[mortal smelt]

you don't want to tell me why you said what you said about me trying to take other peoples money, and now you want to attack on another offensive that I am attacking the team.

Look I love Illuvium and the whole team, but I am no teachers pet

you refuse to try and look at things any other way than your own perspective and that is stifling this conversation

[sharp elk]

I’m not attacking anything.

If you don’t want to elaborate, that’s fine.

Just seems strange that you would be happy to almost say the team are stalling deliberately, but then get shy.

Anyway it’s very late where I am so I’ll have to go now. Have fun.

[mortal smelt]

team knows where I stand, talked with multiple councils on here and in private. We are all cool

its just people like you who want to throw in your 2 cents just to get me riled up about something i've explained a billion times already. stop being lazy and go read the previous comments.

peace out

[sharp elk]

Not everybody is a troll.

But almost everybody doesn’t care about the feelings of anonymous strangers.

Two things that may be helpful to remember.

Peace out, as you say. 🙂

[vivid cipher]

You probably want to talk about this in #💰〕token chat

[quiet aurora]

I thought all ranger and Mozart skins were exclusive to land holders. For me this is what needs to get clarified. If illuvium can just make skins and flood the market with cheap or skins for rewards. Well that makes the land skins less rare and thus cheaper.

When you hear team and council members say skins will be rare. I think we need parameters and definitions of what rare is. What I think rare is might be significantly different than someone else's.

[vivid cipher]

It sounds like illuvial based skins will be from blueprints discovered in #🎮〕illuvium-zero But other skins would not be from #🎮〕illuvium-zero

[quiet aurora]

Yes and that is the part for me that is a tough pill to swallow. I don't recall that being said before, it was always if you wanted skins you had to get it from land owners. That's how Kieran convinced me to buy t1 lands was just for blueprint farming. I Guess I will be watching some illuvium reruns tonight hahaha

[vivid cipher]

If that's your Mozart nft then you'll end up having one of the few obelisk Mozart skins.

[primal sentinel]

anyone know how long season 1 will last? Just got myself a plot of land yesterday and was hoping to get some blueprints before the end of season 1

[vivid cipher]

No end date has been set yet.

[radiant sky]

i would swap my t3's for your t1's 🙃

[primal sentinel]

ah ok, thank you for letting me know

[quiet aurora]

Still on the fence of I'm going to burn the nft or not. I'm fairly certain it will be soulbound if make it a skin.

[vivid cipher]

Yeah it sounds like it. Aaron has always been pretty committed to that

[fervent slate]

I was thinking of buying more land but realised that the land has no value.
The reason is that I do not believe the fuel sale will pay for itself.
Also, the price of the land itself keeps falling.

Stage 1 at Overworld is Krypton 375 is the entry fee.
This will probably cost around $3-$5.
The price of one krypton would then be 1 to 2 cents.

There is one fuel collection in T1, three in T2, six in T3 and nine in T4.
Suppose they are all upgraded to the maximum and the efficiency is 150% on the PowerStation.
Ignore converters and landmarks here.
Then the amount you can take in 30 days would be as follows.
Assume 1 fuel costs 2 cents.

T1: 15 * 1.5 * 30 * 2 = $13
T2: 15 * 3 * 1.33 * 1.5 * 30 * 2 = $54
T3: 15 * 6 * 2 * 1.5 * 30 * 2 = $162
T4: 15 * 9 * 4 * 1.5 * 30 * 2 = $486

The payback period for the investment at the current floor price is as follows
T1: 19 months
T2: 11.8 months
T3: 18 months
T4: 17 months

This would be about three times longer if you bought at the initial higher price.
At 1 cent per fuel, it is double this.

Also, the above assumes that the building is upgraded to the highest level.
It takes several months to grow to this level.
There are other things to consider, such as blue prints, but isn't land too low value as an investment?

[vivid cipher]

There are some that had said this sort of thing from the very beginning. The one thing that is left out of pure fuel calculations is the psychological value of rare, status symbol, property.

[vivid cipher]

While I have not yet been able to watch the recent AMA it’s been my understanding that the specific numbers for fuel cost and even fuel production have been placeholders in both games.

[vivid cipher]

How much fuel the lands produce is far less important than how much fuel is being used by players in #🎮〕illuvium-overworld

Through a couple of tools the Land owners will get close to 5% of the ETH that is used to purchase the fuel used in #🎮〕illuvium-overworld

[fervent slate]

Thanks for the answer.
I agree with Overworld's emphasis on entry fees, as the number of players is primary.
Then, I think staking is still superior to land in the current situation.
We will consider selling the land as soon as possible, as it appears that buying land will only result in a loss.

[vale dragon]

😢 I bought more land yesterday.

[rotund reef]

It still seems like the vast majority of skins will be made by land holders. I always expected there to be a few skins given as prizes, anniversary skins, etc. A few here and there is no big deal IMO. Unless I'm missing something else here...

[hearty cradle]

yea ive done the math and reached the same conclusion. its a bad investment. plus its very illiquid to sell

the value of land is capped

you have to work to earn

[grave island]

rip hahha, game wont go out anytime soon.

[fervent slate]

This could be alleviated somewhat by increasing fuel production or reducing the number of Cryptons required to enter Overworld.

The rest is all about the long term and having fun.

[icy thicket]

https://tenor.com/view/superman-gif-26250593

(I know you meant Crypton, but I love Superman 🦸‍♂️)

[fervent slate]

Sorry, I think it's because I used an automatic translation, LOL.

[paper lance]

sooo, is it better to just take the losses rn?

[vivid cipher]

No one can decide that for you. Except a professional financial advisor. Or your spouse. Lol.

Will land prices ever go up or will they just go down? Will using land in the #🎮〕illuvium-zero game ever allow you to mint anything?

[mortal mural]

We will find a way to give some kind of value, team is focused on main game for now.

All we can do now is think options digest them as much as we can an let the council know about these options

[radiant sky]

You need to be a good salesman, otherwhise you read instantly

• Adds no more value to the DAO
• Taking away value from stakers
• too much devtime

Choose 1 or all of them 😬

[mortal mural]

its a good thing im not on the team, lol

[cyan bone]

My only comment is that the values you're referring to are subject to change

In a world where we're only limited by our creativity (and the DAOs majority approval) if the value prop of Illuvium Zero was too high or too low, it would be adjusted.

[paper lance]

what is too high/low?

[cyan bone]

Not sure, the values are subject to change based on testing and feedback though.

[tall crypt]

I have a tier 1 land at 800 level, I put 150 converters and I am producing more 100 fuel per Day.

[mortal mural]

What a the Max lvl on converters?

[tall crypt]

6

[mortal mural]

6 fuel every 2 days?

[bitter phoenix]

Are they all lv 6 converters?

[vivid cipher]

Holy crap man.

Wild

[tall crypt]

I'm in level 1 converters, 1 fuel 2 days.

[mortal mural]

Imma scrap all the blueprint strat lol, imma go with this one

[vivid cipher]

I’ll have to rework some of my math to account for the pure convertor approach (PCA)

[fervent slate]

Thanks for the valuable information!
This is great.👍
My calculations did not take the converter into account.

[bitter phoenix]

How many storage?

[tall crypt]

I stored in marketplace.

[bitter phoenix]

Wow that very cool. Thanks for sharing

[tall crypt]

5 fuel in level 1 (1fuel/2days), 50 in level 6 ( 3fuel/day).

[paper lance]

what is this?

[tall crypt]

Storage into the fuel converters

[unreal oak]

cant believe i wasted 2 ethereum in this project, what a waste tsk

[cerulean steppe]

Land was the first in-game NFT sold and in a reverse auction (no fixed price!) for max revenue and to a community, that was always told Illuvium wouldn't sell NFTs before the games were ready.

We were explicitly told, there was just some internal testing left, and now look where we are now:

I hear about massive re-work for IL:Z (which is good, don't get me wrong) and again delays.

I am ok with the delays, if it helps the project and Illuvium, but I am not ok with the outright lies (yes, that's how I call it in hindsight), just to get fresh money for the DAO, that now pays yours and others salary, while land owners sit on useless in-game NFTs without a game and without payment.

While a council decides over fuel mechanics (IIP-39) that affects land holders - while land holders can not even vote. I am scared about a future in which these councils decide over the fate of land, when council members don't even own land or just 1 T1 plot.

Illuvium: Zero is already being tested internally and is undergoing a massive upgrade to the graphics. An Open Alpha version of the game is planned to release some 4+ weeks after the Land sale; this date is subject to change. The Alpha version will have Fuel earnings disabled, but any blueprints earned can still be collected and kept from this early release version.

[paper lance]

they are prioritizing beyond over zero.

[cerulean steppe]

Because they already have our money from the land sale and we are stuck with illiquid NFTs.

[paper lance]

waves and waves for more sale.

[cerulean steppe]

I wonder what kind of mainstream gamer who hates NFTs is going to pay 5$ for an Overworld run knowing how Illuvium treated its own community.

[paper lance]

i can't believe land owners are doing beta without new patches/contents/etc.is it that difficult to add like new blueprints so people has something to look forward to.

[cerulean steppe]

I was expecting a few more and better blueprints, not just those 15 T0 blueprints that will have bascially zero value.

[vivid cipher]

They are T1 blueprints. But almost certainly near zero value especially in the short term.

[potent dock]

I'll address this point by point.

1. Reverse dutch auctions find a fair market price for assets. Fixed price auctions capitalize on FOMO to maximize revenue. The land sale was specifically a dutch auction format to address multiple concerns, one of which was ensuring the fairest possible pricing.

2. If holding me accountable for delays makes you feel better, do it. Delays suck, I get it. I own land too. Delays have not been good for me, or for you, or anyone. No one enjoys delays.

I will remain focused on what I can do now, which is trying to minimize future delays by considering the pros and cons of proposals.

3. Council is not paid with land sale revenue. That revenue was distributed as revdis. Council is paid in ILV tokens from the Treasury.

4. Council members are land owners. I know that at LEAST 3/5 IMC members are land owners, possibly more. This "us vs. them" mentality is exactly what I believe needs to stop. One of the things we have talked about for the future is having game assets comprise voting power for (as an example), the Game Sub-Council.

It's pretty exhausting being constantly characterized as as enemy of land owners. Revenue from Beyond is going into the Safety Pool, which provides a buffer for EVERYONE in the ecosystem to ensure we can get our games to market. That includes IL:Z. That revenue is being diverted from ILV stakers, normally it would be distributed to them.

This is an ecosystem where our interests are aligned. Beyond players are not your enemy. ILV holders are not your enemy. I'm not your enemy. The team is not your enemy.

[paper lance]

ilz was out last january, with 0 new content.

no leaks or whatsoever

[cyan bone]

The current Alpha build is completely clientside

[cerulean steppe]

1. I mentioned reverse auction vs. fixed price, because land was sold on the free market, but fuel price will be fixed. They could have sold land when open beta started and we would all have known what the true value of land is. This land sale was setup for max revenue for the DAO.

What is pretty telling: The reverse auction web app was 100% functional (brings in the money), whereas the game app was just crap when they sold land for it.

3. Maybe I am wrong here. But doesn't the DAO also get RevDis from land sale?

4. I am not specifically targeting you Blickter. I don't like the us vs. them mentallity. But what are my options when the reality is like that? Be quiet and tolerate this situation?

[cyan bone]

The team have been working on migrating to server side architecture as well as refactoring code ensurnig the Open Beta Repo is written to support future features.

[potent dock]

Yeah, in hindsight the timing of the land sale could have been better. Hindsight is almost always better than foresight.

3. The DAO's portion of revdis was kept as stables for runway. Council hasn't been paid in stables for close to a year now.

[cyan bone]

@paper lance @cerulean steppe how many devs would you take off the Beta Delivery and dedicate to supporting a build of Illuvium Zero that will be archived come Open Beta?

[empty path]

Most people bought land thinking everything for IZ was done

[cyan bone]

Should we delay Open Beta further so we can deploy new content and features for the Alpha Build?

We communicated 4-6 weeks to launch the first iteration of Zero (and yes this was delayed till January 2023)

[cerulean steppe]

The team must have had that foresight when they started the land sale. They are old enough to have a look at their game before they sell land for it.

[cerulean steppe]

Nick, I don't want to discourage you. You guys are doing a great job. I am just pissed because land holders are treated unfairly IMO.

[cyan bone]

Yeah we estimated 4-6 weeks for that first iteration (with the nasty C&C art-style), before moving forward, Grant got involved and essentially said, this art-style isn't at the standard we want to ship.

[cyan bone]

Fair enough, I'm certainly hearing the feedback and will take it forward this week and echo that statement internally. Noting that Kieran has also mentioned it in several meetings this past week.

[cerulean steppe]

Thanks Nick, I still love Illuvium.

[cyan bone]

Again, the Zero Team are 100% laser focused on delivering the Open Beta Build and Season 1 Blueprint Minting is just around the corner.

[hearty cradle]

rip

[hearty cradle]

grant wasnt involved in IZ before the land sale?

[cyan bone]

He absolutely was, the Art Team delivered the initial Art-Style.

During that period he stopped what he was working on (reminder he's working at or above capacity similar to everyone), downloaded latest builds and started testing.

He has to sit there and make a call... do I let this be deployed or do we nuke the assets are take it to the next level.

[hearty cradle]

or can give the land minter what was promised and update the graphic later

[cyan bone]

Sure.. and in doing so do we lose several weeks that can be better spent diving in and cracking on?

Does it have an impact when our audience and possible future customers see outdated graphics?

Will the DAO understand that this was always communicated as an 'alpha' and that may mean being flexible?

[hearty cradle]

in the realm of investing, delivering as promised is more important

[cyan bone]

I don't think there is a single right answer, but the decision was made to delay, uplift the graphics and not release something that looks poor.

[hearty cradle]

havent checked tokentrove in awhile, wth happened lol

0.16 for T1

i sold mine around .5-.6 last year

[cyan bone]

I own land...I'm not sweating it because I know the guys are pushing and we're about to start dropping product like a motherf*#cker in the next few months

Julien has been...incredible for the Zero team, the guy is a real talent.

[cerulean steppe]

And we could have given early feedback. Game play and economy are important to get right. If we were told graphics will improve we would have believed it.

[hearty cradle]

updates for IZ?

[cyan bone]

Blueprint Minting is around the corner, and Open Beta

It is a poor use of finite resources to work on the Alpha Client Build.

[hearty cradle]

i think the team was too worried about being judged by web3 people

[cyan bone]

Web2/Web3, everyone including the Art Team themselves.

There is a certain standard

[hearty cradle]

by jauwn?

[cyan bone]

Alright, I'm outta here

Peace

[cerulean steppe]

Ok

[hearty cradle]

one thing need to be considered, graphic is the last gamers care

look at minecraft

roblox

looks like sht

[empty path]

Too late, he's gone

[cyan bone]

Sure to a point, although when I look at minecraft I'd say it has it's own unique look and feel.

They didn't just throw shit together and say 'that'll do'

They curated a look and feel for the game

[empty path]

We call it 🐶 💩

[hearty cradle]

its just one person

not curated

he made it as a hobby

[cyan bone]

Sure originally it was just notch

[hearty cradle]

if you look at early WoW, early dota, they all look like sht

[cyan bone]

Yeah and the original Alpha's were only available to a closed invite only audience

[empty path]

So like land holders?

[paper lance]

what would make people play ilz over say, coc, or some other base builders which has pvp component?

[cyan bone]

No, like friends and family Alpha's

[hearty cradle]

make money?

[obsidian patrol]

WoW Classic (2004 release version) has its own style and doesnt look like shit at all imo

Especially at that time the graphics were pretty good, same goes for Dota(Wc3 map)

[iron veldt]

But imo there is a difference between holdinh lands - and lands are the majority of your Ilv holdings

Ilv token owners could stake their tokens - every part of Illuvium received several upgrades. But since we got the IZ version from last january i can’t see any upgrade for IZ and only downgrades

[empty path]

What downgrades?

They upgraded the art, upgraded the UX, upgraded the gameplay

[iron veldt]

I think that this was discussed several times now - it’s just a few messages above mine

There is definitely a reason why IZ land prices go down hardly. That started before we got the message about the delay

[empty path]

Price has been going down since the sale

[iron veldt]

true, but the prices were kind of constant at a certain point

[empty path]

So was the token price, what is your point?

[iron veldt]

and after that fuel and blueprint debacle it just had one direction

[empty path]

You bought land to play IZ, you can play IZ. Nobody told you price would go up and you could make profit on flipping it. You purchased a game

[iron veldt]

i don’t want to talk now over the overall bearmarket.
But there are some points that imo were important for IZ

[iron veldt]

do you own more land or more tokens in ETH?

Because i think that the most money for Ilv came from landowners when Ilv started. That way i think that landowners should also be heared a little bit more and shouldn’t be forgotten

[hearty cradle]

it does. even until now wow looks like sht because they use the same engine. Does it matter tho? Not at all, because gameplay is king

[empty path]

You know the land game was build with the money they got from selling tokens right?

All revenue from land sales was distributed to stakers as revdis so no, most money did not come from land owners

[iron veldt]

That’s the direction i see for Illuvium Zero - like one of the council’s already said. We don’t need the land for Illuvium. That is the sad truth every landowner should be confronted with today.

There are just too much "only token" holders for Illuvium and they don’t care about land for Illuvium and it is moreover seen as a little problem.

[iron veldt]

This is a fact - tokens are way more interesting at this point while doing nothing at all

[ocean haven]

well they make the decisions, not hard to see how asset in the ecosystem will have no liquidity.
Our message to the people that want to play the game, buy the token forget about the game, unless you want to spend 1000's$, and lose most.
Think most will just play other games

[empty path]

Token prizes went from 2000 to 40, you think tokens holders are happy about that? It's the same for everybody 😄

[iron veldt]

The DAO in my opinion is right now just thinking about their own money. They want to give the token more and more and more value. While forgetting everything else a game needs to succeed

[empty path]

Really? What did they do to give the token more value? Charts don't show it

[iron veldt]

They will show it - let’s wait some more month’s

[empty path]

Yeah and then land value will also go up and you can earn with it

[iron veldt]

I don’t think that the value of land can go up, because it was kinda limited through the fuel and bps.

[ocean haven]

The DAO is stock holders, and there is already a huge disconnect between players and stock holders

think it will only get bigger

[iron veldt]

I 100% stand behind this - the token is for investors to "invest" and the land was initially for gamers to "invest"

We both should be able to participate when Illuvium succeeds!

[empty path]

And they both can and will

[timber glacier]

Why wouldn't it be able to go up?

[iron veldt]

Because i think there is a huge limitation what is being possible to earn with land

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[empty path]

Stage 1 at Overworld is Krypton 375 is the entry fee.

This is now during the current private beta, nobody said it will be the same at open beta.
So all calculations after that are pointless

[iron veldt]

That way i would love to see some speciality that lands could get - to give them back the value, they deserve

[timber glacier]

Those numbers aren't final.
We have still no idea what the actual fuel costs or prices will be.

[iron veldt]

you are right with this - but if it’s like this, landowners will be nerfed by a lot

[iron veldt]

I really think that there will be limitations of prices they can take. I really think that a "high tier run" would never ever cost 1000$ for one run. It will be in a price-segment that is achievable for most of the world.

Otherwise it would be hard to onboard millions of players.