lore-nerdz

[bold dove]

What is Imagination to you?

You can argue Van-Gogh's is a story about 'don't let others push you down into a dark pit you can't return from. What you do has value, even if it's on a minute level.'

[rain dock]

Well, for children it is the ability to associate fiction to reality. But I think it is the driving force of original thought

[rain dock]

Then it has value to you. But that doesn't mean I have to consider it valuable

Art is only useful to enhance an experience or explanation

[bold dove]

Right, but then don't say it's 'worthless'
Cause if I and many others feel the same, then it obviously has emotional/historical value to it.

[bold dove]

Art is whatever the fuck you want it to be. 💀
There's no 'rules' to art.

[rain dock]

I say things how I see them lol. Most art is effort with no originality

[bold dove]

"the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power."
If it falls under this, it's art.
Doesn't matter how you feel about it, it is objectively art by definition.

[rain dock]

And this is why I am not an artist. Lol, because this makes 0 sense to me

[rain dock]

Uh. Using a definition to prove a point is a logical fallacy tbh.

[bold dove]

And that's fine, you don't need to make sense of it.
Just smile and wave like a normal goddamn human. 💀

[rain dock]

The fact is that most art is copy cat of other art

[bold dove]

In what way?

Like redrawing something from a game?

[rain dock]

No, like seeing someone else's work and doing the same basic thing, but slightly different

[bold dove]

In which context does this apply to?

[rain dock]

That it is copycat?

[bold dove]

Yes

[rain dock]

In the context of art, most art is mimicry? I mean I don't know what other context to give it

[bold dove]

Not gonna lie, it kind of feels like I'm talking to a goddamn bot right now. 💀

[rain dock]

I mean, I last I checked I wasn't a bot, but maybe I should check again lol

I did break chatgpt once though

Well, more than once

Only caused it to crash once

[bold dove]

Fuck it, I'm going to bed.
TL:DR, if someone created something and it gives them or someone else emotional value to it (an art-piece, games movies books, etc) then it's art.
Doesn't matter what or how you feel about it. You as an individual can't change the value of something if a bigger collective think it does have value.
You don't need to understand this, just smile and wave and say "nice" or "cool" and move on before you make someone pissed.

[rain dock]

Imo art has value in that it can be used to give context to an idea. If it lacks that, or if the idea is something trivial, it has no value to me

[bold dove]

Cool.
That isn't what art is.
Going to bed.

[lyric tendon]

That is so "Pro-AI art" thing I have ever read

[rain dock]

Didn't mean to make you mad at me 😅

[rain dock]

I mean, I am pro people being better people. If ai helps that, then bring on the ai

[bold dove]

One last thing before I go

There, I'm going

[lyric tendon]

No, it's not

It doesn't made "art better" if anything it removes human made art out of the process

We are called "starving artists" for a reason, and the rise of "unsanctioned AI art" makes worse for use who make art for a living

[rain dock]

There is one thing that people do better than ai, and that is depth of thought with context

[lyric tendon]

Not really

It's more playing RNG-sim with stolen assets

[rain dock]

As of now, sure. But that's the thing with ai. It'll get better

[lyric tendon]

Until all artists managed to officially opt out from being scraped with watermarks and signatures intact

What is left for AI to train is nothing but PowerPoint clipart

[rain dock]

I mean, technological advancement does put people out of work. The fact that art was exempt from that until now doesn't change anything

[lyric tendon]

For now only literal art theves and NFT bros profited from AI "art" instead of used to protect artists creations from being scraped and laundered by some "google search expert" or what is being intended "an art tool"

[rain dock]

I mean sure, I don't know the usage of it

I am neither for it, nor against it

[lyric tendon]

If all artists quit the creative market

What use of our years of training and experience?

It's like you force a seasoned mechanic to be a lawyer

Plus without us making original work, there is nothing new for AI to scrape, and the results will be monotonous

It happened right now, outcomes of AI art are way too close to someone's artwork

Music industry has hard core copyright even AI scrapers are afraid to "sample" without paying royalties

[brazen sparrow]

Raq is an unfeeling machine, confirmed

[lyric tendon]

Basically

[rain dock]

Little bit yeah

[rain dock]

This could be, in which case artists should put effort into knowing what the limits of ai are and doing things it cant

[lyric tendon]

AI processing Art is like mixing the colors all at once and all you get is greyish brown

Sure the ratio of colors maybe different but it's still shades of gray brown unless you put one big blob of a color on it

It will only be "perfect" if they keep scraping original artwork without permission

TL;DR I am against people using AI to devalue actual work and process of actual artists especially us who actually draw commissions as a means of livelihood

Especially AI that is used to remove watermarks and signatures for some prompt bro claim it as "their art" and sell for profit

[rain dock]

There should be limitations sure. But loads of people lost their lively hoods with the advent of tractors and factories. Loss of lively hood is an issue, but it shouldn't stop technological progression

[lyric tendon]

Lmao, if "constant stealing of original artwork" is "technological progression"

I don't think that is not progressing at all, more like "how to make easy profit while putting people out of jobs"

[rain dock]

It's an issue sure

[lyric tendon]

It would be a "technological advancement" if the AI music generator somehow miraculously bypass the big music copyright

But alas starving artists are too easy for them

[brazen sparrow]

I'm not worried, AI will never have the capacity for art and a true understanding of it as humans do (sans Raq, who doesn't understand art either I guess)

[rain dock]

I mean, that's a valid argument I guess

[brazen sparrow]

Still can't wrap my head around that take, no offense

It's like saying you don't, like... listen to music or something

[rain dock]

I meeeaaaaan

[brazen sparrow]

Like, are you gonna tell me you don't eat food next?

Or sleep or defecate

[rain dock]

Lol, would it surprise you if I said I only eat once a day because I forget to lol

[brazen sparrow]

No, eating once a day is the way to go

[gusty turret]

As if art hasn't just turned into people throwing pieces of crap together and calling it art

[brazen sparrow]

But that still has meaning, even if it is just as simple as "fecal funny"

[gusty turret]

Abstract art is like the worst thing in existence and I will not be taking any questions on it

[rain dock]

I do not disagree lol

[quartz pelican]

I would say abstract is some of the better art styles. Far more appealing than a painting of a grumpy old man and woman in front of a farm.

[brazen sparrow]

Well, I have no more to say then, y'all not understanding art brings a lot to the table and explains so many things

But abstract art is usually that way for a reason, I suppose...

[lyric tendon]

Funny enough that is how AI does it with art

It takes artworks with the same tag within the asking prompt, break it apart in it's pixels and throw things together, how else some outcomes have mashup of signatures/watermarks or have hands with polydactyly

Stable Diffusion in a literal nutshell

[mental basin]

Anyone who believes ai art is a legitimate form of art is delusional

[eager raft]

Woah i came here to check on the silly ramblings but theres ai

but yeah ai art is horrible and i fear for my future job prospects

[mental basin]

You know what's even more horrifying is the fact that they grew an artifical human finger on a robot

Look it up

[eager raft]

im gonna give my little piece which is that the advent of ai “art” is happening while i am actively studying and dedicating my life to art and so i really worry sometimes that if we mess up somewhere im gonna lose my entire worth

[eager raft]

they what now

[mental basin]

Yes

[brazen sparrow]

AI art can be good, to say that just because a few pieces of AI art is plagiarized that it's all inherently bad is the true delusional take

[gusty turret]

Ai is a legitimate form of art it just shouldn't be protected by any form of copyright laws

Which it isn't so

At least in the US

[gusty turret]

I would rather see a grumpy old man and woman in front of a farm than "i got in a car crash and this is the mangled remains of my car with my dead family inside"

[quartz pelican]

AI art isn’t really art in my opinion. I mean kind of I guess. But like if you post an ai art and claim credit for it you deserve to be laughed at in a public forum.

[quartz pelican]

If it makes you feel better, I will always appreciate something handmade far more than anything a machine or computer does. I don’t think I’m alone on this either.

[gusty turret]

Its still art it's just a unique form of art that needs to be observed differently, more in a way of studying the human influence on the art than any meaning of the art itself, seeing how and why it fell into the theme it did, looking at popular paintings that are similar that could've influenced it, more of a dive into human nature than the art generated itself

Thats just how id look at it, I don't like art so id never look at it to begin with

[quartz pelican]

It’s computer generated bs.

Typing in keywords and having a computer generate an image with them does not make you an artist.

There’s just no soul behind it

[lyric tendon]

they are monetized through subscriptions (for commercial uses) while the artworks from the artists they scrape don't get compensation

meanwhile in music, you need to pay for literal samples of beats and lyrics

[brazen sparrow]

Oh for sure, it's not really owned or made by anyone in particular I can agree, save for maybe the developer of the AI but that's a slippery slope

[brazen sparrow]

This exactly, it's just soulless, mindless fun imo

[brazen sparrow]

Not all AI art is monetized and the like was my point, lol

I can go make an AI image of President Sleepy Joe in a mech suit and it hurts absolutely no one

[lyric tendon]

you should see slew of AI "art" in fiverr and redbubble lol

[brazen sparrow]

Again, that isn't ALL AI art. Don't generalize too much 😂

[lyric tendon]

also the thing is

they claim "for research" yet they allow monetize for commercial uses despite the literal copyright issue

[brazen sparrow]

Because it's open source, yes. I know the issue intimately, and it is sad for those being plagiarized, but this is a new age issue and will require a new age solution that I don't think anyone alive today has thought of yet

[lyric tendon]

it ain't open source when they asking money for commercialization

OBS and Linux is open source yet i dont see them commercialized. they are donation driven

[brazen sparrow]

That... isn't quite how that works

[lyric tendon]

AI made memes ain't the issue there... it's just memes, i am talking about the devalue to artists who just want to make a living

[brazen sparrow]

As am I, I know several artists who have had work plagiarized via AI and know the issue intimately, as stated

But it's still an issue that we have no current solution to, so it's kind of a moot point as of yet

[gusty turret]

The age old solution is people are gonna resist it until everyone forgets its an issue and stops caring

[lyric tendon]

not for artists because livelihoods are on the line

the people who stopped caring are the ones who are saying "can i pay you with exposure" and those do dont want caught stealing artworks without permissions and selling them in redbubble

[gusty turret]

It is just the nature of time that as technology advances more and more people aren't gonna care anymore cuz there's gonna be some new problem that comes up and everyones gonna forget this was ever an issue

[lyric tendon]

so you want to let genuine art die off?

last time i check we are still mad at people stealing artworks (see previous community crunches), AI scraping is far worse

the only way for that "issue to die off" if living artists held the same copyright as music and an auto opt-out from scraping, not us manually removing years of hard work in the scraping database

[rain dock]

I doubt actual art will die off, I think it'll adapt

[lyric tendon]

adapt? in what way?

just be the fodder to the scraping system with no protection nor compensation unlike the musical counterpart?

tell us "how to adapt"

[gusty turret]

It's already adapted, art is more than just random crappy drawings, art is music, art is writing, art is in everything, hell id even say art is math have you ever seen someone good at math just flowing fluently with what they're writing for a big problem? Its amazing to watch, art isn't gonna die because some random AIs are making pictures

[lyric tendon]

Dafuq

Philosophy is not helping still

Also those "random crappy drawings" are also art

Just so you know... Art is freaking subjective and people have to start somewhere, not just <insert words here> [click submit] = instant "art"

[gusty turret]

I never said random crappy drawings aren't art i just said there's way more to art than that and it's not gonna die as a result of AI

[lyric tendon]

But motivation to make and share art will

I have seen artists getting demoralized by "is this AI" or "what AI did you use?" comment despite having all effort of sketching and rendering a piece

Especially the good ones that are easily mistaken as AI "art" despite all efforts have made behind the scenes

[brazen sparrow]

You're still here making a mountain of a molehill, huh? 😅

[lyric tendon]

Who, me?

Nah I am making a foxhole

[mental basin]

Poglin gang

[gusty turret]

I still can't spell that word

Vole in an... Abbotour?

Im gonna spell it like it sounds

Abbotwa

[lyric tendon]

avatar

[gusty turret]

Google says abattoir but i disagree

It sounds too French and the french aren't allowed to have words so

Its now officially abbotwa

[eager raft]

I thought it was abbateur no clue why

[rain dock]

Ai has limitations. Figure out what they are and just do something different

[eager raft]

that is the most fartbrain take ive heard about ai art but im not in the mood for debate so you do you

[rain dock]

Just because calculators became a thing didn't make mathematicians lose their jobs. The coding ai they are making won't make software devs lose work. There are loads of things people can do that ai simply cant

[glass ravine]

Ai is kinda different than automation tho

[brazen sparrow]

Since when were we talking about automation? Lol

But yeah, that's basically my point as well, there are things that will not be able to be taken up by AI, and things AI simply cannot conceive nor comprehend

[rain dock]

Until such a time as ai is proven to be strong, I am under the impression that it is weak. And weak ai is always worse than a human intellect or specialist

Ai can't conceive or comprehend anything

They call it artificial intelligence, but it has no actual intelligence

It's all algorithms and databases

[glass ravine]

The thing about the calculator

[glass ravine]

Agreed

[rain dock]

Even if ai somehow becomes better than people in some things, just due to the inherent mathematical issues of computer hardware it will be incapable of a lot of things that humans are capable of

[glass ravine]

No but its meant to be selflearning

It learns faster than we do

[glass ravine]

And the ai will prob note these things and find solutions for it

[rain dock]

Which makes is a glorified calculator

[rain dock]

There are actually no solutions to it lol

[glass ravine]

How so

[rain dock]

That's why computers have limits

[glass ravine]

Yea but its not like weve discovered everything there is to be know

[brazen sparrow]

Yet

[rain dock]

At all

[glass ravine]

Known*

[rain dock]

Ai cannot solve the halting problem

[brazen sparrow]

Yet

[rain dock]

Period

[glass ravine]

What makes you so sure

[brazen sparrow]

There's always the possibility for the future, don't be daft

[glass ravine]

People couldnt imagine a pc being smaller than a room not so long ago

[rain dock]

Hard mathematical proof does not change over time

[brazen sparrow]

Physics and the solar system also don't change over time, right? 😂

[glass ravine]

Nobel prize recently got gives to people disproving some of einsteins theories that were said to be set in stone xd

[rain dock]

Physics is not mathematics. Ai solving problems 100% is

[glass ravine]

If everything in math was discovered. Why dont the mathematicians just retire lol

[rain dock]

Again, that's a totally unrelated field lol. Einstein was not a mathematician, he was a physicist

[brazen sparrow]

Just because we were once cavemen doesn't mean we can only use clubs and bang rocks together

To think otherwise is just silly

[glass ravine]

Yes but the example was that something that was believed to be un-changeable got changed

[rain dock]

Name one mathematical proof in the last 300 years that was changed

[glass ravine]

Well if you give me some time to google

[rain dock]

There is a reason einsteins theory of gravity is a theory

[glass ravine]

But even if i dont find anything it doesnt mean that we cant discover new things

[rain dock]

While the proof of the unsolvability of the halting problem is a proof

[brazen sparrow]

For now, sure

[glass ravine]

I just think its weird to be so sure of something that we have no clue of

[rain dock]

Oh, we discovered a solution to it already, unfortunately it takes a slow kerr black hole and the age of the universe

[brazen sparrow]

And we'll also never have flying cars, apparently

[rain dock]

*you have no clue of

[glass ravine]

We as in humanity

[rain dock]

That is an engineering problem

[rain dock]

You entirely underestimate the field of mathematics lol

[brazen sparrow]

Ok, and?

[rain dock]

It's unrelated

[glass ravine]

?

[brazen sparrow]

It is still something that is considered "impossible"

Well now you're just getting semantic

[rain dock]

No, it's considered impractical and dangerous, which is why it's not a thing

[brazen sparrow]

Which means I'm right

[rain dock]

No, the word I would use is unfamiliar with the problem

[glass ravine]

No1 really knows what ai will be able to do. What makes you so sure? And why are we developing ai if its useless

A glorified calculator as you said

[rain dock]

I mean, if you read back to what I said, unless ai becomes strong, then it has some hard limits.

The current ai is on the weak end of weak ai

It is by no means useless, but don't overestimate its capabilities

[brazen sparrow]

You aren't getting the point

[glass ravine]

I mean yea its weak now bec it hasnt been able to learn yet

[brazen sparrow]

It's no use

[rain dock]

What point?

[brazen sparrow]

Precisely lol

[glass ravine]

Its a toddler now

[rain dock]

It is weak ai due to the algorithms it uses. Give it the time of the universe to "learn" and it will still be weak

[rain dock]

It's an algorithm...

[glass ravine]

How can you be so sure

[rain dock]

I am convinced you are just trolling lol

[glass ravine]

Youre predicting that ai will hit a ceiling and still be weak. And im asking how you can be so sure

[rain dock]

Arithmetic is still arithmetic regardless of how long you do it

[glass ravine]

When stuff youre saying has been disproven throughout history

Well i dont think i can change your mind so gg

[rain dock]

I am not predicting it will hit a ceiling. I am saying that the current algorithms have very well defined limits

[brazen sparrow]

Usually how these end up lmao

[glass ravine]

Lmao

[rain dock]

I mean, if you were an expert on ai you might be able to. But this is what I do when I am not working or playing ark.

I have written my own ai before lol

[brazen sparrow]

Apparently not a very good one, eh?

[glass ravine]

Im just using logical thinking

[rain dock]

No, because this is a logical fallacy

[glass ravine]

Which im not

[glass ravine]

W/e you say 👍

[rain dock]

I feel like I am getting a lot of people mad at me today lol

Seriously though, of you want to debate ai, vague generalizations of unrelated historical events is not enough to prove a point

[brazen sparrow]

I'm not mad, just dumbfounded at the prospect of the absolute magnitude of misunderstanding going on

[rain dock]

I mean, sure?

I am pretty certain I don't misunderstand ai from a mathematical point of view

[glass ravine]

Im not mad either lol

But i dont think comparing the step from doing math on paper to transitioning to a calculator is the same leap as going from where were at now to ai

[brazen sparrow]

For the record, here's a few mathematical proofs that were disproven that I could find, and were mostly accepted as fact until proven otherwise: Hilbert's 21st problem, The Euler Characteristic, The Jacobian Conjecture, and The Busemann-Petty problem

[rain dock]

I mean, thousands of people lost their jobs because of calculators

From a cultural perspective, I really don't see the difference

[glass ravine]

Still dont think its an accurate example

Youre comparing something that cannot change, as a calculator. To something will be able to learn massive amounts of things in literal seconds

[rain dock]

An easier on would have just been the parallel postulate lol

[rain dock]

Calculators have changed. They went from adding numbers to being able to run ai

[brazen sparrow]

Sure, but you said that mathematics hadn't changed in at least 300 years; those prove that wrong entirely

[rain dock]

What I said is that hard mathematical proof does not change

Mathematics does change

[brazen sparrow]

Sorry, mathematical proof

Potato potato

[rain dock]

The cases that you mentioned were not hard proofs. They did have conjecture and assumptions in them

To be fair, it's impossible to make a mathematical system without assumptions, but they should be limited to reason

[brazen sparrow]

Who's to say that current other proofs aren't the same situation?

[nimble summit]

Some summarize the lore for me rq please

[rain dock]

I mean, that is a fair point I suppose. It might be possible to create a machine that can surpass the limitations, but ai on a glorified push down automata is not the one

To surpass the Turing barrier, you have to already be past it

[brazen sparrow]

Sure, but you admit an AI may, eventually, be the one to do so?

[rain dock]

Not on a normal, super, or quantum computer

[brazen sparrow]

Mayhaps

[rain dock]

Lol, no. It's pretty well established

The halting problem is undecidable, which means that short of using time mechanics from general relativity there is no general solution to it

[glass ravine]

I didnt say they havent changed. I meant that if you go to the store and buy a regular calculator itll do the same thing until it dies with no improvement

[rain dock]

A computer is just a calculator

Now, if there was a machine that could solve the halting problem, that would be when you should be really scared lol

[glass ravine]

What prevents ai from discovering that

[brazen sparrow]

The aforementioned current limitations

[rain dock]

The fact that it is impossible without use of relativity and the age of the universe?

Humans can do mathematics that far surpasses what machines can. Like faaaar beyond. It's possible that ai could approach what we have done, but something as limited as current ai, not a chance

It will help certain fields

[glass ravine]

Im not just stuck on current ai

[rain dock]

But the very existence of ai depends on the nature of the mathematics used

[rain dock]

Neither am I. I could give you some resources that would clear up why the halting problem is unsolvable lol

It's been proven that there is no Turing machine that can solve it, and computers are limited Turing machines.

[glass ravine]

I dont mind

Dms should be open

[brazen sparrow]

Ok, see, we've reached a point of agreement, how hard was that? 😂

[rain dock]

What point was that?

[glass ravine]

Rather us just accepting that we wont find an agreement 😂

Back to ark-lore

[brazen sparrow]

This one, idk, maybe I was wrong 😅

[rain dock]

I mean, I believe it is important to stay on top of the main concepts of computer science (and physics) I read most of the new significant papers that have been released in the last 20 or 30 years. I am no expert so there is a possibility that I misunderstood things, but I am pretty sure not. As long as church turing holds, there is hard limit to what ai can to. Not to mention the np problem

[bold dove]

@brazen sparrow Okay, so I wasn't the only one fucking questioning Raq's point of view about art?

That shit was crazy

[rain dock]

Confirmed, I am crazy

[bold dove]

You're not crazy, you're a psychopath.

Wait, nope, not the right one

Sociopath.
That's the word I was looking for

[rain dock]

I mean. Not really, but I get where you get that from

[bold dove]

"Antisocial personality disorder, sometimes called sociopathy, is a mental health condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others."
That sounds just like you from last night

You had no regard for others feelings towards art, and so all art was worthless to you.
That's kind of sociopathy.

[rain dock]

I think you are taking that a bit to far lol. The fact that I dont care for art does not make me a sociopath lol

[bold dove]

You didn't make it out that you didn't 'care'
You where making it out last night that art was objectively worthless, no matter who you are.

[rain dock]

I think you were misinterpreting. What I said is that most art is copycat with lack of originality

[mental basin]

What
The fuck
Are you on

[bold dove]

And this is why he's a sociopath

[rain dock]

A pedestal that apparently I am dying on lol

[mental basin]

He's not a sociopath, he's objectively incorrect.

[bold dove]

A shit covered one at that

[rain dock]

I really dont see why it is such a big deal

[mental basin]

It's not. You're entitled to your own opinion. It's just one of the absolutely batshit insane ones I've ever seen.

But you're entitled to it.

I wanna talk about lore now.

[rain dock]

I dont see how its insane lol

[bold dove]

(honestly, I'm not sure if he should be)

[mental basin]

'Most art is copied and lacks originality.'

As an artist... you are so wrong... on so many levels..

[bold dove]

Am I the only one that sees sociopathy-like actions in this topic?

[rain dock]

Well I am not an artist, so I cant really say anything more than that lol. So much of what I do see in art is just copied concepts from other art

[mental basin]

It's not sociopathic?

[mental basin]

That's called 'inspiration'.

[rain dock]

Its inspiration to copy the same basic picture over and over and over?

[mental basin]

That's called practice.

You'd shrivel up and die if I showed you a reference sheet.

[bold dove]

"Antisocial personality disorder, sometimes called sociopathy, is a mental health condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others"
He's ignoring and can't comprehend the wrong he's saying, and ignoring what others have told him about art and their feelings about it.
Sounds like a sociopath.

[rain dock]

So what is the practice of people splattering paint without form or reason on a canvas and selling it as art

[mental basin]

Thats how an opinion works, though.

[mental basin]

That's soulless. But that's not 'most art'

[rain dock]

Bruh. Its literally not lol. I am pragmatic, not sociopathical lol

[bold dove]

But you can at least understand other sides, but not agree with them.
He's flat out not understanding other peoples points

[rain dock]

I have very little exposure to art lol. But I have had a lot of people try to ram down my throat that colors on a page is art. And I call bs to that

[mental basin]

Calling those people 'artists' puts a bad taste in my mouth. Artists are people like Van Gogh, Tri, etc.

[bold dove]

Fuck it, I know I'm probably wrong. But I'm nicknaming him 'Raqiopath' from now on.

[gusty turret]

Are we still arguing about this

[bold dove]

Silence

[rain dock]

I mean, I got called a sociopath, so you bet I am arguing that

[mental basin]

Everything is an art.
There is objectively good and bad art.
Something I put effort into and fail miserably in execution? Still art.
Me grabbing 20 colored pencils and going schizo on my wall? Objectively not art.

[bold dove]

I am being entertained

[gusty turret]

No you

[mental basin]

Loaf, stop calling the man a sociopath.

[rain dock]

See this is what I dont understand. Why is the definition of art so subjective?

[bold dove]

This is what I was saying last night.
Still didn't understand this.

[rain dock]

It literally makes no sense to me

[bold dove]

No.

[mental basin]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Ever heard that phrase?

[rain dock]

Beauty != art

[gusty turret]

I don't like that phrase

Isn't the beholder the thing from dnd? Thats all i can think of when i hear it

[mental basin]

I'm
I'm going to go crazy
Someone put me in a straight jacket

[bold dove]

Do you still not see my point?

[mental basin]

If you had an opinion you held onto this hard you wouldn't let go either

[bold dove]

Oh no, I would.

And I have.

[rain dock]

Sunsets are beautiful, but they arent art. A concise well devised mathematical theorem is beautiful, but it isnt art.

[mental basin]

I'm gonna separate myself from this convo before I go clinically gibbly gobbly goofy

[bold dove]

My opinions change cause I as a person change.

[gusty turret]

My opinions change because i like to argue the funniest opinion and that changes based on who is getting angrier

[bold dove]

Dav, no one asked

[gusty turret]

I did

[bold dove]

Okay, 'nobody' asked

[rain dock]

I mean, I do that to a degree too lol. But not in this case. I genuinely dont understand peoples obsession with art

[gusty turret]

There's a lot of people in this server named nobody

[mental basin]

Breathing addiction 🫵

[rain dock]

What

[mental basin]

Breathing addiction 🫵

You're addicted to oxygen

[rain dock]

I guess?

[bold dove]

I fucking hate oxygen.
But I still breath it.

[mental basin]

Me personally I just became a fish

[rain dock]

So you are saying it is constant exposure to 'art' that makes people like it? And since I dont have that I wont understand?

[bold dove]

Fuck it.
-Returns to fish

[gusty turret]

Don't then you'll have hiccups

[mental basin]

Art pretty
Whether it be pretty landscapes
Pretty building
Pretty monsters
Pretty women (hey that's me)

People like looking at the pretty

[bold dove]

Okay, I'm going to dump some shit on Y'all.

[mental basin]

Art is objectively pretty

[gusty turret]

Please don't i just took a shower this morning

I crack myself up

[bold dove]

@mental basin I understand 'biologically' why people want to reproduce, it's both an addiction and a biological need to expand our species.
But I myself don't understand why we don't have selective breeding, and only allow the objectively best people to breed to better our species. Least violent and smartest people.
'Buuuut' I understand why it isn't a thing, cause people would become emotionally deprived if they never had reproducing.
So while I get where Raq is coming from, he's dense as all hell.

[rain dock]

I mean, I see people call those nft chimpanzees art, and I would say those arent pretty. It seems to me that art is kind of a catchall for random creativity that otherwise doesnt have a place?

[mental basin]

They objectively aren't art
NFTs are soulless, randomly generated pieces of shit that can burn in Hell

[rain dock]

I mean, you have to take what you can get. I am good with math and science, pretty terrible with anything outside that lol

[gusty turret]

Least violent doesn't exist violence is the only consistency in human communication throughout time and the only thing everyone understands

[rain dock]

But people say they are art. You get the conundrum lol

[bold dove]

You see though, the art community shuns NFT's due to how soulless they are.

[gusty turret]

But funny monkey

[bold dove]

The majority don't.
It's just another crypto currency.

[gusty turret]

I still think i could sell Rockwell an NFT

[bold dove]

Yeah, that's bullshit and you know it.

Humans aren't inherently violent. It's the environment we grow up in that changes us.

"* It is scientifically incorrect to say that war or any other violent behavior is genetically programmed into our human nature. Except for rare pathologies the genes do not produce individuals necessarily predisposed to violence. Neither do they determine the opposite."

[gusty turret]

Violence and hate is human nature

[rain dock]

I mean, it hasnt been scientifically proven that any behavior is genetically programmed into human nature

[rain dock]

Gotta disagree with this.

[bold dove]

Hate is human nature, but wanting to kill someone for having not the same opinion isn't.

[rain dock]

I dont think hate is human nature either lol

[bold dove]

"Hate has been described widely as an emotion, but also as an attitude or a sentiment. Some scholars think that hate is an extreme version of anger or dislike; some describe hate as a blend of emotions such as anger, contempt and disgust; and others regard hate as a distinct and unique feeling."

[gusty turret]

Humans just kinda have a natural lean towards not liking things that are new or different

[bold dove]

Hate is an emotion which is tied to us, it's an extreme form of dislike.
It's to help us categorize things, like "I hate the taste of grass" so now you know to not eat grass cause you hate the taste of it.

[bold dove]

Speak for yourself, kid

[rain dock]

Not liking new and hate are two totally different things

[bold dove]

I for one accept our impending AI overlords.

[rain dock]

Except ai cant really overlord anything yet

[bold dove]

No shit.

[rain dock]

It wont be able to for a long time, if ever

[gusty turret]

We don't know that

[bold dove]

We literally do.

And AI art is cool, but it isn't 'art' in the sense that it has beauty.
'Buuuut' it does have uses in concept art and such.
Getting general idea of something, but it will never be some Van-Gogh shit.

[rain dock]

I mean, I find beauty in understanding things. I dont understand art for the most part.

[bold dove]

I did not ask.

[gusty turret]

We're gonna be like the people in mass effect who made the ai then realized it was too smart and try to kill it and its just not gonna work

[rain dock]

You arent going to be mad at me forever because I think most art is worthless are you?

[bold dove]

You......you do realize that the whole point of Mass-Effect is to stop that cycle and to have peace....right?

[gusty turret]

Im talking about the uhh geth and whatever the species was called that created them

[bold dove]

Shepard literally proves the Reapers wrong by uniting every species "including AI"

[gusty turret]

Quarians?

Something with a Q i think

[bold dove]

Yeah, which the war was started cause a single geth asked "does this unit have a soul"
And you know damn well there's going to be people who fight 'with' the AI if it does have a conscious.

[gusty turret]

They made the AI freethinking and suffered the consequences, i see little chance humanity doesn't end up in some similar scenario eventually where we just let it be too smart and it goes too far for us to handle

[rain dock]

You probably dont want me jumping in and saying I dont think its possible for ai to be freethinking

[gusty turret]

Yeahhhh

[bold dove]

Bruh, fucking reply the games.
The only 'consequence' that happened was the creators tried to fucking kill the geths after the asked that question, in 'FEAR'
It is people like you that fear this future that will cause the war.

That is literally what happens

[gusty turret]

I'm not fearing it? I sided with the Geth they were objectively in the right? Im just saying humanity is gonna get to that point eventually and its gonna be an issue

[bold dove]

This is why I'm accepting to shit like aliens, AI's or shit.
Cause it's the fear that'll cause the war, and not accepting them as other living beings like us.

[bold dove]

But just like in the game, why does only one side need to live?

You can convince the Quarians to side with the geth.

[gusty turret]

Can you? I didn't have that option, when i tried they decided they were gonna go full speed ahead into the Geth fleet

[bold dove]

Did legion die in Mass Effect 2?

[gusty turret]

If you choose violence when offered peace you'll get whats coming to you

[gusty turret]

Legion didn't die until they integrated the reaper technology for me i don't remember what game that was

[bold dove]

That was 3, and his suppose death.

Then did you not do Tali's side missions?

[gusty turret]

Uhhhh she just like randomly wasn't there at some point in 2 so i guess not? She didn't really give me a chance to

[bold dove]

Okay, that's why.

[gusty turret]

I think my game may have crapped a little on that part

[bold dove]

You need both Tali and Legion alive and their side-missions completed to get that ending

[gusty turret]

Ahhhh okay

[bold dove]

You do their missions, and they become more closer to each other and represent what a AI/Organic utiopia could look like.

[bold dove]

You want me to send you a video of that wrought?

[gusty turret]

If youd like, I don't mind

[bold dove]

@rain dock Also, for reference. The geth in Mass-Effect don't have freewill, as they need some form of a higher being to give them orders.
Their plot though in ME3 is to allow them to gain full sapient's and freewill via a Reaper corpse. (a ancient cluster of AI's that where made billions of years ago by a higher advanced civilization then we could ever reach)

Geth's unit (a body) has thousands of AI's in them, each one doing different things to operate the body/unit.
The Reaper corpse helps them though gain sapients by combining these cluster of AI's into a single one. Going from 'we' to 'I'

[gusty turret]

I felt like really bad in the mission where you went through and destroyed the Geth AI in that simulation- especially when it got compared to wiping out a city-

[rain dock]

Interesting

Honestly that is kind of a terrifying prospect. A bunch of killer suits running around with the equivalent of the email spam filter running it

[bold dove]

TRUE!!
But nah, when they don't see you as a threat, they're actually pretty chill.

[rain dock]

Now that is an idea that could happen in the very near future. Turning ai sentient is so far way out of reach, but having ai driven machines is already happening

[gusty turret]

I would look into technological singularity- its hard to explain but it's definitely interesting to look into

[bold dove]

Honestly, if it wasn't for bullshit space magic logic with 'Mass-Effects' the game would actually be pretty decently realistic for a sci-fi series.

First contact with aliens, and our political leaders responded with war.
Which, does sound realistic.
There's a few factions that where made of people from both races that didn't agree with the war, so they united. But the general powerhouse militaries on both sides waged a war.

[bold dove]

"The technological singularity—or simply the singularity—is a hypothetical future point in time at which technological growth becomes uncontrollable and irreversible, resulting in unforeseeable changes to human civilization."

This is kind of the starting point we're at.
But it doesn't make it out to be negative, just 'unforeseeable and irreversible changes'
Those changes can be good, or bad. We'll just need to find out

[gusty turret]

AI singularity would be more precise in terms of what we've been talking about- but yeah that's true, I'm just saying a tipping point could happen any time and wed never even know with how hush hush research is

There has been some research published suggesting that AI is already getting to a point where the supposed singularity could happen "soon", now i don't know anything about the topic so im just taking the groups word on it but its a neat prospect

I think I've talked about this here before at some point

[bold dove]

Issue is, people have been saying that for years.

People thought technology back in the 90s was peak technology of all time

[gusty turret]

Would you like the article i found on it? I know that doesn't exactly change that what you said is true but it's a good read if nothing else

[bold dove]

Sure

[gusty turret]

It is also quite specific to one field but yeah

[rain dock]

I want to see that article too

[gusty turret]

Both of y'all have it now

[rain dock]

It is interesting for sure

[haughty charm]

Guys do you know what the company that made the arks name is? Because I know the colony ship is by the exo federation

[fallow sapphire]

The URE, or United Republics of Earth focused on the ARK’s. Also it’s the Terran Federation

[haughty charm]

Ahhh ok ok, the URE’s technology looks vastly more alien than the Terran federation

[rain dock]

I mean, smart phones look alien to someone from the 1800 century

[haughty charm]

I mean like the comparison between the two, it’s a lot more wiggly and life like the tek caves and stuff

[mental basin]

It's not really a company, it's moreso a faction or government.

And yes, the URE made the ARKs.

And the URE/Feds worked together on the Genesis-Project

[rain dock]

There was a lot of homodeus influence

[mental basin]

That's... not the explanation but alright.

Creative divergence, but I digress...

[haughty charm]

What’s the explanation?

[gusty turret]

They were hippies

[gusty turret]

They wanted the zaza and the Federation didn't want them to have the zaza

[haughty charm]

It’s the only explanation that makes sense honestly

[lyric tendon]

Tbh it's kinda weird to have a people from the future that snorted literal metallic gasoline (petroleum) but "you do you mate"

[pseudo nimbus]

We will give them zaza

[gusty turret]

I think that's the best way to describe it to people who are new to the game

[quaint marsh]

Best way is to have them read the notes themselves ;)

[gusty turret]

People? Read? Ha you're funny

[brazen sparrow]

Ark players? Basic reading comprehension? You must be joking

[bold dove]

So, something random I just learned and I want y'all input on this.

If true, the name 'Santiago' means 'Saint James' which was the name of 'Saint James the Great.'
He was known to be the first apostle to shed his blood for Christ.
Now, could be a stretch. But the connection to that, and the in-game Santiago shedding his blood for a character that'd later on become a god-like being is kind of sus.

[rain dock]

I mean, do any of the wildcard devs speak Spanish?

[bold dove]

You don't need to speak Spanish to have a small reference.
And that'd most likely be a Marc thing since that was during when he was still in office.

[rain dock]

True I guess.

[lament raft]

could be a reference?

[rain dock]

It could be a reference, but I don't think so. Santiago is just a really common Spanish name in Chile. And that is where he is supposed to be from right?

[lament raft]

could be unintentional, given Santiago wasn't the first one to die

[bold dove]

No, but he was I'd say the first to die for Helena, no?

dame?

[lament raft]

did he die for helena or the group tho?

[bold dove]

And yeah, that's most likely what it is.

[rain dock]

It would be like naming bob is a reference to something. I think they just picked a common name

[bold dove]

Helena 'and' Mei Yin.
Those where the last two left at that point

[lament raft]

he died during the attack on camp omega, i think there were other survivors who died off afterward

[quaint marsh]

Pretty sure he was killed after everyone else died. He didn't want to watch Helena and Mei die, so he held the corrupted off in order for them to escape

[gusty turret]

I could see it being a thing but i could also see it just being a coincidence

i still think we need to make a connection between what Serapis is known for and element

Or just Ark in general tbh-

The sun, fertility, eternal life, healing, transformation, redemption uhhh a few more my phone just died so i don't remember what they were though

Serapis being a mixture of a few gods post Romanization including Zeus makes me think of element as some form of ambrosia or something, some nectar of the gods

Imagine the Greek gods were just chugging element and that's why they were so powerful

[bold dove]

Element is the great-flood

It wiped out all of the 'sins' in the world, and allowed a new one to be created.

[mental basin]

Intentional.

Santiago sacrifices himself for Helena. She goes on to become Homo Deus.

Brilliant, isn't it?

Oh Marc, why did you have to leave us?

[gusty turret]

Marc is like Jesus

When the world needed him most, he vanished

Wait wrong series

[wicked oracle]

Lol

Avatar the last nerva

[sick canyon]

NERVAtar the last new legion leader

[limber snow]

Ok but why did the humans of the future name element 'element'. I'm with rock well on this one, they gave it the most bland name of all. We could have had real life copium, even edmunium was better but nooo they had to chose the most boring name for it

[lyric tendon]

What if Element™️ is a brand name like Velcro

Or Kevlar

[limber snow]

That indicates that element is in fact not an element which is even more ridiculous

Plus rockwell said it was an element

[lyric tendon]

If Rockwell himself said it's an element, how come you think it's not element?

Who knows the reason why the Tek era people called it "element" because it can be a brand name becoming a common name, like brand names in meds or even poisons

[bold dove]

'sigh'

[lyric tendon]

Take it away resident Rockwell

[bold dove]

Y'all do realize it's most likely called 'Element' cause that's the simple public name......right?
Gasoline/Gas is actually known as 'n-octane. 111-65-9'
But no one that isn't in the science field unironically calls it that.

[lament raft]

ultimately i think the writers were feeling a bit lazy and never gave it a real name

[brazen sparrow]

Element's periodic table symbol is Ex btw

[lyric tendon]

The original writer ended in ext (and a few from Gen) so...

[bold dove]

Either that, or purposely left it vague cause that's old history that has been forgotten.

[brazen sparrow]

Why can't it be named Element is my question, why is it such a big fuckin deal?

Like who the hell gives a shit

[bold dove]

Aren't the Elements on the periodic table named after what they have in their name? (like H2O being one Hydrogen and two Oxygen molecules)

[lyric tendon]

There are people who do give a shit

Hence "asking questions"

[lament raft]

it is kinda like making a new brand of car, and naming it Car

[brazen sparrow]

As an old doctor once said, "Not what I'd have named ya, but if that's yer name, that's yer name"

[bold dove]

New Vegas-

[lyric tendon]

More like Velcro or Kevlar

They are both brand names under a different name

[brazen sparrow]

If it can make any other element on the entire table, why not simply call it Element? It can literally become any other element known to man, and then some

It's like calling electricity "that thing stored in batteries", why do that when it's just electricity lmao

[bold dove]

So, in theory with the naming of 'Ex'
We can assume there's something within Element to add that 'x'
So that either makes me thing there's a compound within Element to give it the x-part, or it name originally started with 'Ex' for it's Periodic table name.
Again, different fields have different naming conventions. Everything has roughly like 2-3 existing names (if we're only including English)

[lyric tendon]

You see... Branding make this funny hard to pronounce name for a substance more tolerable/welcoming to the public

Teflon is a good example

It's a chemical under a brand name

[bold dove]

Okay, if real world laws apply to ARK. You can't legally brand the word 'Element' in the U.S.

[lyric tendon]

If a bio-metallic chemical named "element" exist under trademark

hell there is a chocolate bar called Mars and Milky Way

[brazen sparrow]

It's Ex because X doesn't stand for any known thing iirc, and Element is super mysterious

[bold dove]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh

So would it in theory be fully called 'Element-X' due to the X being unknown?
Kind of like how other medias have 'Compound-X' as a unknown substance?

[bold dove]

They're only trade marked in a very, very specific wording

Wait, nope. It's actually canceled.

I'm looking at a Trademark website right now, and their trademark for the word is no longer in legal use.

[lyric tendon]

You are even allowed to use Milky Way for your ice cream pub without being used

[bold dove]

"Status
710 - Cancelled - Section 8"

[lyric tendon]

I'll show you a LegalEagle episode later when I am on PC

Also Milky Way is cancelled?

Bruh that is my fave

[bold dove]

No, no, no

The trademark use for it by MARS is cancelled.

[lyric tendon]

Ah

Wait they still use the name still tho

[bold dove]

'sigh'

[brazen sparrow]

You can use a name without trademarking it, lmao

[bold dove]

🗿

[brazen sparrow]

But then if someone else does and you continue to do so after a cease and desist, they can sue

[lyric tendon]

Technically you still use a common word as a brand

[brazen sparrow]

That means nothing, I don't know why you keep trying to push that

[bold dove]

🤦‍♂️

[lyric tendon]

Means what?

Push what?

[brazen sparrow]

The common word as a brand thing, you don't trademark the whole goddamn use of the word EVERYWHERE, lmao. People can still say the word in circumstances not related to the field you trademarked it in and not be sued, you know that, right?

[bold dove]

When you trademark a word, you trademark that exact grammar use of the word to the T.
Their trademark for Milky-Way was actually 'MILKY WAY' which is all caps.
And that's only trademarked usually in your own country. You have to re-trademark it again in other countries iirr

Can I dm you Bruise?

[brazen sparrow]

That, and the fact that they actually trademark the design more specifically, usually. So like, for instance, Crunch bars. You know, the big bold red letters, all caps, CRUNCH? That specific style of the word is what they trademarked. You can still make a movie or something and say "Oh yeah, I'm going to go eat a Crunch bar and then kill a dragon" or something, and there's little they can (or will) do about it, not to mention the fact that it's free advertising/product placement if they even actually show the thing in the shot

[brazen sparrow]

Forever and always, please, just don't even ask lol

I don't follow your weird code of permission to DM, if I wanna DM people, I do it

[bold dove]

Right, trademarking is very, very specific

[lyric tendon]

I was talking about things like Teflon, Kevlar, and Velcro

Those are also brand names but doesn't have brand typography and used as a common word for a certain product

[brazen sparrow]

It'll surprise you, but those actually aren't the names of those items, just like "Q-tips" aren't the name of those either

They're technically dual-sided cotton swabs

[lyric tendon]

We called them "cotton buds" here, although we do call our toothpaste "Colgate" and grilled chicken feet "Adidas"

[gusty turret]

What if it's called element because it is quite literally just the element you need no other elements😱

It's almost like it exists in every state of matter and can do anything

Why give it an exact name when it does what all the other elements do combined except better

[brazen sparrow]

I pretty much stated this above

It can effectively become any known element, and then some

It's the Philosopher's Stone, so to speak

[gusty turret]

I refuse to read that much for some dumb argument about branding id ratber just restate it and go from there

[brazen sparrow]

. @gusty turret

[fathom adder]

We got x2 or anything this weekend

[gusty turret]

I haven't read up on the 2x notes sorry

[brazen sparrow]

Not the channel for that, try #general

[gusty turret]

OR we can assume the x is meant to be a variable like in math representing that it can be anything

[brazen sparrow]

Didn't think of it like that, good catch

I'm admittedly not a master of mathematics, like our resident mathematician Raq 😂

[bold dove]

@brazen sparrow I have a serious question

[rain dock]

Heeey

[brazen sparrow]

Yes?

[bold dove]

Not you

[rain dock]

Tbf I was replying to this😂

[bold dove]

Mayonnaise is practically made out of eggs, yes?

[brazen sparrow]

Uhhh, usually yeah...

[gusty turret]

Is mayonnaise an instrument

[compact zenith]

And some other ingredients

[bold dove]

So if I make an egg sandwich with Mayonnaise.
Does that mean I'm smothering eggs with eggs?

And would it be a double-egg sandwich?

[compact zenith]

Just try it

[bold dove]

Who're you?

[rain dock]

To a vegan probably yeah

[brazen sparrow]

Mayonnaise, on an escalator! Goin upstairs, so see ya LATER!

[bold dove]

Wait.....but I'm no vegan.

[brazen sparrow]

It most certainly would, thank you for this (most likely) useless but fun information

[rain dock]

If a chair is sitting on the floor, and I sit on the chair, am I double sitting?

[gusty turret]

I don't like the idea of pants

[bold dove]

Useless!?!
Eggs exist in ARK, which means Mayonnaise to a degree also do.
This means someone has made a egg on egg sandwich before in ARK

[gusty turret]

Why is one singular leg a pant

If i wear one leg am i just wearing a pant

[bold dove]

Double sitting, fuck it

[gusty turret]

By a stretch are skirts just a pant?

What if my shirt is just a pant with arm holes cut in it

[brazen sparrow]

Yes

[brazen sparrow]

Mom, I'm scared, come pick me up

[bold dove]

If I get a hairdo, who's doing my hair and why does it do the do?

[gusty turret]

What if it doesn't?

[bold dove]

These are questions Marc needs to answer

[rain dock]

I mean i bet raptors wearing pants is probably canonical in ark

[brazen sparrow]

If I put a lock on a door, am I not just turning a door into a wall?

[bold dove]

Yes

Fuck it, I vote we rename 'locking doors' to 'turn that fucker into a wall'

[brazen sparrow]

If I buy a half a chicken and eat it, am I technically sharing a meal with a stranger?

[bold dove]

Yes

[brazen sparrow]

I love the fact that it just devolved into us spouting shower thoughts and I'm here for it

[gusty turret]

Why do they call it oven when you of in the cold food of out hot eat the food?

[bold dove]

Master-Chief is your waiter

Is Jesse from Studio-Wildcard the same Jesse from Breaking-Bad?

[gusty turret]

Yes.

[brazen sparrow]

I'm in tears

[limber snow]

We are told that 'element' is indeed an element. Yet no other element has public names like that, their names are universal throughout all languages.

[rain dock]

We are told that element is a xenotoxin

[gusty turret]

Im still curious how element has a healing property when ingested but is extremely toxic when in the bloodstream

I mean obviously we couldn't put like molten cheese in our bloodstream but like....

[rain dock]

It has a healing property?

[gusty turret]

I always assumed that putting element dust in recipes making them really good implied it had a healing property when consumed?

[brazen sparrow]

Putting at least one element dust in any recipe makes it better all around, not just healing-wise, but yeah, always been a weird thing that's almost never touched upon or even so much as mentioned

I wish someone would've asked about it to HLN-A when I said to do so at Pax or whenever that was

Or that I could've just made it myself

[gusty turret]

I mean i imagine if you put cocaine in your cereal you'd probably think it was pretty good too but theres surely more to it than that

[bold dove]

To be fair, you can drink venom and be fine

(snake venom to clarify)

It's only once it gets into the bloodstream, it actually does its job.

[brazen sparrow]

That's nothing near the same. Element dust has actual, tangible benefits to your being. But nice attempt, I guess? And yes, different things act differently when ingested differently, who knew 😅

[bold dove]

That was what I was more getting at

[brazen sparrow]

Yeah, I got ya

I just woke up to my cat shitting all over my floor, so apologies if I seem at odds with anything said

I want to wring this cat's neck rn

[bold dove]

If the theory of Element enhancing everything it touches (pre-corruption) then I could see it healing up your cells if you ingest it in a dusk form.
But maybe once you melt it down, it releases a compound that makes it toxic?

[bold dove]

Nah, you sounded normal.

[brazen sparrow]

I do think it being in a molten form had something to do with Rockwell's findings on the substance, for sure

It definitely seemed like the molten form was more inherently ready to take on characteristics of the one it was binding itself to (albeit destructively), rather than just assisting the creature in it's day to day life like the good corrupted creatures on Extinction

(Which, mind you, is the first map we discover dust on as well... coincidence?)

[bold dove]

Nah, I think that's a good redhairing (however you say it) that Element just tries to adapt anything it touches. The good or bad comes from the users intentions.

Honestly, I like to separate Corruption from Element.
Cause from what we've seen, Corruption activates from Element after a unknown thing triggers it.
While Element doesn't always turn into Corruption.
While they're mutuality related and are the same in a literal sense, but they both are very different in their actions.

[brazen sparrow]

While that could be the case, I like to think that the application matters more than the intent, personally. If you have a few beers, you'll be buzzed, right? But if you take it by, uh, "suppository"... it takes far less to get you blackout drunk, lol (and now that I've mentioned drugs of any kind, cue the resident tweaker)

[quaint marsh]

I wake up to a kitten biting my ear and jumping on my face every morning. Not pleasant

I'm sitting trying to write too, and that mf comes up, sees the fingers moving on the keyboard and scratches the hell out of them

[brazen sparrow]

Preferable to a twelve year old cat diarrheaing all over your carpet, I can assure you

Her box is literally right fucking there like BRO

Just open the bathroom door and GO

Also yes she knows how to open the bathroom door, not that it was actually closed in this scenario to begin with 😡

[bold dove]

That sounds more like bowel issues.

Cats lifespan is around 12-18-ish years

[brazen sparrow]

Not mine, my cats have been up to 24 years old

Actually, most of my family's animals tend to live much longer than the usual lifespans, it's kinda weird

I had a Chilean-Rose-Haired tarantula that my dad caught when he was 18-20 something. He was 54 or so when it died, and the highest recorded lifespans for that species is like 24 years or something

[bold dove]

Not that strange if they're kept good in the right conditions.

[brazen sparrow]

True

[gusty turret]

Have you been feeding your cats element

[bold dove]

Honestly, it could be both

We know Corruption is alive, but Element itself I don't know.
Could be a awakened state, or as the name suggests, it might've been 'corrupted' by the war.

[gusty turret]

Okay so

Would you rather have

Unlimited bacon but no games

Or games, unlimited games, and no games

[bold dove]

The fuck does this even mean?

[gusty turret]

Would you rather have unlimited bacon, but no games, or games, unlimited games, and no games

[bold dove]

Again, that last part makes no sense

How can you have unlimited games and no games?

[gusty turret]

I don't think you're getting it

[rain dock]

I mean that is what people mean when they say it makes no sense, and I concur it makes no sense

[bold dove]

Yeah, I don't

[gusty turret]

Damn

[weary tulip]

Wait so, where did the titans come from?

[rain dock]

Element made them

[weary tulip]

Oh ok

[old lark]

wait what

[gusty turret]

When a mommy titan and a daddy titan love each other very very much

[eager raft]

no no youre getting it wrong, they come from the big bird in the sky

[velvet gorge]

Fuck you h-lna

[glad dirge]

I keep getting different answers so can I please have a clear answer, is the survivor from genesis the same person as the survivor from ark?

[bold dove]

That's up to the player.
And that's the answer that was stated by the dev's

[brazen sparrow]

If you watch the Genesis reveal stream, it is, yes. But as Bootleg said, it is more or less up to you

[glad dirge]

So in other words the game doesn't have a very defined story

[brazen sparrow]

Well, no, that doesn't mean that at all

Like I said, if you take the Genesis reveal stream into account, it shows us (The One Who Tries Again) being uploaded to the ship

That's an unchangeable fact, but the way that they present the situation going forward is so as to make it more new player friendly and let the new players who started at Genesis 1 and 2 decide for themselves what they want to believe

[arctic bison]

We're all TOWTA. Traumatized Organisms With Tamable Animals.

[bold dove]

Eh, more or less.

Dollie stated awhile back ago that the Animated-series is only as canon as you make it out to be.
So yeah, the story isn't really that defined.

[gusty turret]

I think its funny that Rockwell hacked HLNA

He should do it again and make her self-destruct

technically you could start the story on any canon map besides extinction and no one can tell you what you have done isn't canon

[bold dove]

New canon does impose this

With the new intros, Helena assumes we where on the other ARK's.

[gusty turret]

Helena is the dumbest of asses though so what does she know

[bold dove]

Still imposes on that idea.

[gusty turret]

What if she has dementia

[bold dove]

I don't think she does, when she's a god-like being

Dementia if I recall right comes from a physically degrading brain.
Helena doesn't have a brain anymore to degrade.
The whole 'having a lack of emotions the older you are as a Homo-Deus' thing could be a conscious thing then a physical issue.
Or, since there's no longer a physical brain, there's no way for you to produce the happy-chemicals or sad-chemicals, so they just become emotionless.

[gusty turret]

Okay so technically

"Dementia is caused by damage to or loss of nerve cells and their connections in the brain. "

She did infact lose all of those nerve cells and connections to the brain

Have we ever considered putting a dementia patient in a big shapeshifting robot suit to see if they function the same as an overseer?

Imagine how much better the transformer movies would be if all the robots had dementia

[bold dove]

We need to first consider putting a normal human in one first, then we need to figure out how one can be physically connected to a machine

[quaint marsh]

It does, absolutely. But how it involves the player is for the most part up to the player

[lyric tendon]

Bob/player has no set personally nor goals (inb4 Helena became Princess Leia update), it's all up to you how you interpret your character transferring from Ext to the Gen Sim

[rich tusk]

I like to imagine that Helena has told us about Rockwell’s survival and transfer to the genesis ship, and helps guide us to arat prime so we can upload ourselves to the colony ship after the events of extinction

[gusty turret]

I like to think we're just a random person that HLNA gave the memories of the survivor

[eager raft]

I mean the og survivor did get their implant removed on ext so their memories wouldnt have been logged

Well not before the ascension at least, implant was still there then

[gusty turret]

The implant getting removed signifies absolutely nothing in that cutscene

We're literally designed to wake up with it again on the ship

[cedar quail]

How though? Your character maintains the same physique everytime they die

[gusty turret]

Physique is a gameplay feature

No human can be built like half of us make our characters and survive

[cedar quail]

Idk I made my character normal(lie(I have made a giant man he looks like he would pop))

[gusty turret]

Like the default bob chad look is probably the most realistically survivable character we can have

[cedar quail]

I made Kratos

Too bad I can’t post pics

[gusty turret]

If i recall correctly Gabriel mentions having an implant? Im not sure at all though i could be entirely mistaken

So either that part of the cutscene signifies literally nothing, the writer change caused it to mean nothing or we just aren't the same person

[brazen sparrow]

Or, we're in a brand new body and the implant is there just because the body we were fabricated had to have one to be made via ship protocol

Which is the case, as far as the brand new body bit at least

The original intent though was that we became homo deus at the end of the story of Extinction, so that's why that happens with the implant being removed

[eager raft]

ok i have a crackpot theory that the survivor ends up being two people between gen and ext

so the original survivor would ascend into a homo deus on extinction and live out the rest of their eternity on earth, while a cloned duplicate of them is made on the colony ship to eventually save it from rockwell

[lyric tendon]

We in ext didn't "ascend to Homo Deus" as the machine to make those broke when Helena turned into one, making her "the last Homo Deus"

We just lost our implant and filed in the "Homo Deus Record"

[eager raft]

ohh alright that makes sense

[bold dove]

The implant being removed is questionable.

While it made sense when Extinction came out, it doesn't now for Genesis.
Implants are what Helena uses to resurrect dead-survivors.
The implant also now says 'homo-deus record' which again, I wouldn't say is canon anymore either.

[upbeat edge]

How couldnt a whole advanced civilization not be able to defeat element but one funny man defeated it by himself

[lyric tendon]

because Lore Titans are bigger and stronger than Game Titans

also... mini titans

[upbeat edge]

Yeah but still YOU the character beat it

[lyric tendon]

because Helena as homo Deus helped

[upbeat edge]

Ok with some help

[lyric tendon]

you cannot respawn without her

[upbeat edge]

But A WHOLE civilization

[lyric tendon]

half

because rockwell

also Tek war

[upbeat edge]

But considering the fact that your character is pretty much the same as in the story

[lyric tendon]

nope

[upbeat edge]

Wdym

Excluding the respawn

[lyric tendon]

the survivor arrived after the events of the notes

hence Helena can respawn you but not.. say John for example

[upbeat edge]

But i still wonder how can 1 guy even with infinite lives achieve so much

[lyric tendon]

because gameplay

if the titans scale equal to the lore, alpha KT = to less than Gamma KT, not even the Mega Mek can kill it, just damaged it

[upbeat edge]

Because ark *

[lyric tendon]

nah it's just gameplay

[upbeat edge]

Ark gameplay is special

Every weird and nonlogical thing that csn happen happens in ark

[lyric tendon]

even though Ext is set on earth not on an ARK

[upbeat edge]

Also why do nameless attack us i never understood it

[lyric tendon]

it's made by the ARK and if the ARK sees a threat to itself or it's goal of "make humans stronger" they let out dangerous creatures

see SE with wyverns and mantises

[gusty turret]

Its called plot armor

Also yeah infinite lives helps though...

And a god that wants you to succeed

Its also unclear how many of us there actually are

She who waits references us getting people to help us

So possibly multiple people with infinite lives

We come along after hundreds of years, Mei and Diana wiping out basically every titan, and with the help of a god kill the last few and bring the arks back down

[bold dove]

Cause they where still human

The survivor's are genetically modify humans to be able to rapidly adapt to their environments.
And if gameplay is anything to go by, (which I doubt) they're immune to Corruption.

[gusty turret]

Im still a bit curious on the element healing factor thing

W h y d o e s i t h e a l u s

I guess it is organic-

[bold dove]

Like me and Bruise talked about, different ways it enters your body could give it different abilities

Ingesting could be safe, and heal you as you're absorbing the nutrients from it.
Injecting it into your veins though is lethal, since it makes direct connection to your blood stream.

[lyric tendon]

basically like iron, especially that "iron" in most foods

[gusty turret]

But iron is also in our blood

[lyric tendon]

try melt actual iron and inject it

[gusty turret]

Well we don't melt actual iron and eat it

[lyric tendon]

technically you do

[gusty turret]

I don't?

[lyric tendon]

you can cook food rich in iron, they just dont melt in the same temp as food cooked

[gusty turret]

Yeah but like that's not the same-

[lyric tendon]

hell you can actually magnetize iron off your cereal

[gusty turret]

You can infact have that type of iron injected if you're deficient

But speaking of having full on iron injected into your blood thats a no

[lyric tendon]

that's just iron that is mineralized, not melted

someone made a sword out of blood... so...

[gusty turret]

This discussion has helped me come to the conclusion it's probably more to do with the state of matter of the element than the way its injected

Or uhhh

Word for overall entering the body

Subsumed?

No

Maybe?

Something like that

[brazen sparrow]

Consumed (I think) works in any of the mentioned cases

[gusty turret]

Consume only covers... Well... Consuming things

Via the mouth hole

I see a very messed up version of how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood in our future

[brazen sparrow]

You are confusing consume with eat

I don't eat a bandage, yet when I use it (which in and of itself isn't descriptive enough) it is considered consumed, no?

You don't ingest (another word for eat) a needle of morphine, either

You consume it

[bold dove]

You apply it to a wound

[bronze turtle]

Howdy yall

[gusty turret]

use up (a resource).
eat, drink, or ingest (food or drink).

I guess it's both?

Thats weird i don't like it

But that also brings into question if you consider element a resource or a food/drink

Can It be both?

You can definitely eat and or drink it

But its also a resource

It is both

Idk im too tired for this

Anyways back to what actually matters it definitely matters more the state of matter than the method of consumption

Actually can you drink the abb soup

I've never tried it

That is probably just a gameplay feature if you can but

[brazen sparrow]

Element can be anything, as we've stated ad nauseam

And yes, you can drink the kool-aid but just as much as you can drink the lava on maps like Rag and Gen 1

[prime saddle]

wait i can drink element

[brazen sparrow]

Yep

[mental basin]

You can actually eat Element in small doses

Use Ele Dust in a custom recipe for a good boost to whatever you're making

Element sugar mmmm

[brazen sparrow]

That's actually what sparked the conversation, funny enough

[gusty turret]

That was a very unproductive circle

I just discovered consume is a word that i don't like

The baseline is element edible and not edible

Consumable

[forest rose]

Lore

[gusty turret]

Liquid≠consumable
Dust=consumable
Gas/airborne spores= seems fine as we have no adverse effects from anything around extinction

[broken star]

Element is a metal

It's not a food or a drink, unless you've been corrupted enough that you rely on it but that's a different ball game

It's very similar to phazon from Metroid- a corruptive super material

[lament raft]

is it a metal?

[broken star]

Rockwell calls it a glorious metal in one of his notes

One sec gotta dig

[bold dove]

It's literally everything

Its base-form is metal, yes.
But it can go into a liquid, a gas, and dust.

[broken star]

Yeah, his later Island notes and earlier Scorched Earth notes he calls it a glorious metal, an exquisite metal, etc

Refers to it melted down as "molten"

[bold dove]

It's very watery.

[broken star]

And i mean, just look at any piece of tek gear

[bold dove]

I know.

But Element, is again, 'everything'
It's base-form is just metal.

When you smack a corrupted creature, you're not smacking metal. You're smacking organic tumors.

[broken star]

It's not "everything". It's a sci fi super metal with mutating properties

[bold dove]

That can turn into edible dust

[broken star]

Anything turns into dust if you break it enough

[bold dove]

Yep.
But metal isn't normally edible, nor beneficial.

(and again, the corruption tumors, which consists of Element, is organic)

[broken star]

I mean, I'm assuming the element dust in the recipes is largely to hint at those mutagenic properties, in some gameplay/story integration. If you chomp down on a big 'ol hunk of element you're just going to break your teeth

[bold dove]

Well, obviously.
It's still in a metal form.

[broken star]

The game answers a lot about what Element is, what it can do, and what it cannot do

[bold dove]

Dust-form is more akin to seasoning.

Honestly, since Element can reach high temperatures as a liquid. I wonder if I can deep-fry chicken-nuggies with Element. 🤔

[broken star]

When worked it's an incredibly durable metal or can be used to channel incredible amounts of power, but in its raw form is dangerous, corruptive, and if it gets too severe can start acting indirectly

I mean, you could deep fry nuggies in element the same way you could deep fry nuggies in molten iron or lava

[bold dove]

Edible

[gusty turret]

Hes also literally an insane old man

I would say even calling its base form a metal is a stretch

Like its malleable like metal... But it serves literally every purpose its not just metallic

It falls under metals nonmetals and metalloids on the periodic table, it has all of those properties

[gusty turret]

We have absolutely no reason to believe its raw form is corruptive

We see its raw form in space in genesis two yet none of the creatures are at all affected by it

[gusty turret]

It basically is everything it can do everything and more

It seems to require alloying to become sturdy enough for structures though

I imagine Gabriel's dagger wasn't actually too effective because it was just a raw element shard and not an alloy of anything to make it more sturdy or to give it the plasma properties of the tek sword

Or maybe it would've been like making a blade of obsidian

[gusty turret]

I think that just means it's a metalloid actually, i didn't read very well last night to realize metalloid is just something with the properties of both metals and nonmetals

[brazen sparrow]

Isn't it a xenotoxin, though? Which are decidedly not metals?

[arctic bison]

it's a element for sure
help me in #ark-2

[brazen sparrow]

I refuse to read that channel until the roadmap comes out

[arctic bison]

understandable, let's hope it's tonight

[mental basin]

It's not beneficial, but tell the man that ate an entire airplane that metal isn't edible.

Look it up, interesting story.

And would Element’s base form really be metal? It was a liquid when it was discovered on Earth, iirc.

Or at the very least, there was liquid Element around, beneath the ground, as stated by HelenaDeus.

Apparently the people of Sanctuary made use of Element rivers flowing beneath it.

In fact, I have a crackpot theory that states the Sunken Forest sunk into the ground not because of a sinkhole, but because of the Element mines beneath it.

[brazen sparrow]

It's native state is certainly not as a solid, of that much we can be sure

As evidenced by the fact that it takes extreme heat (and likely pressure) to become a solid

Not to mention whatever other weird, future-y things it takes to make it into Element as we know it

[gusty turret]

I refuse to believe that the rivers thing was not a metaphor

I think its native state has to be dust because thats what we find the most of in space

[lyric tendon]

not really "rivers" but veins

[mental basin]

Dunno and don't care bc it doesn't matter

All we know is that element is element

It was on Earth from a meteor

And then people used it

[flat aurora]

What’s the lore on how Dinos are alive on the Ark? Is it a Jurassic Park thing?

[mental basin]

They cloned 'em

With some genetic engineering of course

Some Creatures are outright built from the ground up

And some are created by the ARKs themselves

"I stopped to touch a newly-cloned mammoth calf, and it wrapped its trunk around my wrist.

Wasn't expecting to feel a connection to some lab animal, but it felt like neither of us wanted to let go.

Two lost souls dragged back from oblivion, holding onto each other in orbit..."

Interestingly enough, Santiago claims that The Farm (the first Prototype ARK to be sent into space) rested over the Serengeti.

[rain dock]

Space element be like

[bronze turtle]

I have a interesting question

Not relating anything about servers

What happens to our survivors after genesis 2, are they stuck in space or are they teleported back to earth?

[rain dock]

You are in a mek, flying in space out of a ship that got blown up. Yeah, you are either just landing on the moon, or you are stuck in space lol

[bronze turtle]

Alr, good to know joes stuck in space forever

[bronze turtle]

(Real quick how do I get that role? Bob squad)

[rigid grove]

The #ark-animated-series channel pinned messages

[bronze turtle]

(Tanks)

[near osprey]

O

[bold dove]

I know, he ate a lot more then just a plane.

[mental basin]

Element yum

[ionic plume]

Hey idk if this is the right place for this but what is that planet above extinction

The one that's broken

[lament raft]

that's the moon

[ionic plume]

Ok

What happened to it

[lament raft]

it got 'sploded, apparently

[arctic bison]

clearly got fucked up

[ionic plume]

I thought it was abberation

[lament raft]

aberration is another Ark station

[ionic plume]

No shit

[ionic plume]

.

[lament raft]

rude

[ionic plume]

Talking to flobs

[lament raft]

they're not wrong

[ionic plume]

Ik lol

[bold dove]

It got blown up cause someone at Wildcard thought it'd look cool

That is the literal reasoning.
There's (so far) no canon reason why the moon is blown up

[ionic plume]

Makes sense

Tbh I thought it was abb

[bold dove]

Nah, Aberration is another ARK.

You can see it in the overseer's arena actually

It's that purple-ish ARK off in the distance, in the middle of the window

[ionic plume]

Cuz survivors set a nuke at the tek cave and fucked up abberation so I thought that's what it was

[bold dove]

Can I DM you?

[ionic plume]

Yh

[lament raft]

not in the tek cave, in the overseer chamber iirc

[ionic plume]

That's what I meant

[gusty turret]

The mek docks back with the surviving ring

[bronze turtle]

Why thank you

I have been blessed with the info I need.

[gusty turret]

Yup yup, after HLNAs message plays the meks interface displays a message that says "Autodock initiated" so thats how we know

[bronze turtle]

Ooooh that makes sense now

[gusty turret]

Whats the new planet called again

[lyric tendon]

A rat

[gusty turret]

I think they named too many things Arat

[lyric tendon]

the planet is Arat, see the trailer

Arat Prime is a space station

[brazen sparrow]

Literally two things are named Arat, and not even that exactly

[bronze turtle]

Can survivors who became homo dues become humans again?

[lament raft]

i imagine they can take human form at least? we see Helena give herself a human head

[lyric tendon]

not without the machine that turns humans like Helena into Homo Deus and the gem that she found that activates it

[upbeat edge]

I wonder how the story would turn if our character spawned during the explorer note time

[gusty turret]

Theres also the Aratai

Methinks 3 things that aren't even remotely the same being named the same thing are too much

[lyric tendon]

Basically playing multiplayer pre-cryo hardcore mode

[gusty turret]

Pre-cryo ark was honestly so much better

Where the hell did we even get cryopods

[arctic bison]

Extinction, but they were later made to be unlockable on any map to help with server loads with all the dinos being out

[lyric tendon]

SP yes but not multiplayer

[gusty turret]

I know that but w h e r e

They have literally no canon explanation

[gusty turret]

Nah multiplayer was

Having to march an army across the map to fight people

[upbeat edge]

The obelisks are jerks 😕

[gusty turret]

They are

[bronze turtle]

I have one more question for ye nerdz

What happens if you bring HLNA to one of Helena’s dossiers

[lyric tendon]

Nothing

The HLNA chibi ability is the closest thing you get

[bronze turtle]

Dang

[gusty turret]

I mean- i don't see why anything would happen since HLNA doesn't canonically exist outside of the constraints of the ship

[broken star]

HLNA has Helena's memories but is not Helena herself, as she makes fairly clear

[bronze forge]

Arks

[unreal kindle]

couldn't agree more my fellow gentleman

[bronze forge]

Rockwell is a fellow gentleman

[unreal kindle]

yep...

[compact zenith]

[gusty turret]

What if hes actually a gellow fentleman?

[bronze forge]

I agree

[bronze turtle]

I completed the gamma ascension then the alpha but I got a beta implant why is that?

[gusty turret]

#bobs-with-probs

[mental basin]

Fockwell fesafellow fengeltlenman

[solar bolt]

why did earth get tidally locked again
i forgor

[lament raft]

element

[brazen sparrow]

Pretty much

[arctic bison]

🫴 Element

[gusty turret]

What does tidally locked mean

I can only assume it has something to do with the tides and them being locked but i just wanna make sure

I think from my 5 second google search i understand

I can only assume it has something to do with the hundreds of massive chunks of Earth they stole for the ship and Arks

Mostly the arks

I wanna believe the Earth starts rotating again once the arks come back.... Otherwise anyone on the dark side are kinda screwed...

Also should the Earth not still have had a daylight cycle...

Like does it not still revolve around the sun? Was it just sitting there?

[fallow sapphire]

yeah that was always my thought. It seems like the earth hit an entire standstill, both in rotation and revolution

[brazen sparrow]

No, it still revolved around the sun, but the same face of the planet was facing the sun at all times

[gusty turret]

Thats weird

Gravity is funky