hivescum-class

[low harbor]

I also have some really spicy takes with regards to cleave and some talents

Based on recent discoveries I had

[rough peak]

The main thing I hate about higher end difficulties is special spam I think the most

[jovial heron]

Wait NEW SPICY TAKES?

[north crow]

the one thing I hate the most in DT compared to VT is the delay on most weapons after block cancel

DT cancels feel mushy compared to crispness of VT

[rough peak]

like... yeah you will eventually fuck up and get trapped... so fun...

[low harbor]

I mean u heard them before I think

[queen saffron]

I would love to fight the Chao Shield Warrior from vermintide

[low harbor]

Impact stacking

Strength vs cleave

Cleave actually has soft breakpoints

[rough peak]

hearing 50 trappers spawn is nerve wracking

[low harbor]

(And they’re much more real than crit PRD)

[north crow]

combos are also a lot less meaningful because of rending / brittle, you are fine mostly light spamming, which is also a shame

PA 3x light elf glaive anyone?

heavy light cancel glaive anyone?

[jovial heron]

I don’t remember impact strength etc

[north crow]

I would love combos to have more meaning

[low harbor]

I told u about eviscerator being able to heavy stagger ragers

[north crow]

only mk3 tho no?

[low harbor]

Mk3 with a specific setup

[jovial heron]

Yeah I thought it was cool didn’t see it as a take

[low harbor]

My spicy take is that

Cleave is largely irrelevant after >16.2

[jovial heron]

Hmmmmm

[low harbor]

And that’s for havoc

[north crow]

whats at 16.2

[jovial heron]

Probably true. What is void strikes cleave like 13?

[low harbor]

There’re two soft breakpoints for cleave

10 and >16.2

10 means u can activate “hit 3+ enemies in 1 atk” condition reliably vs everything you actually want to use sweeping attacks for

[north crow]

chaff

[low harbor]

16.2 means u can hit more than 4 poxwalkers in havoc in 1 atk

[jovial heron]

Oh yeah

So much has changed since early game

[north crow]

does 3 vs 4 matter much tho?

[low harbor]

And I don’t think >16.2 matter much

[low harbor]

3 havoc poxwalker is like 12.15

[jovial heron]

What’s the breakpoint for 5 even?

[low harbor]

21.25

[north crow]

ah right, so 10 wont cover it anyhow

[low harbor]

Which ur not getting, usually

[jovial heron]

Holy shit

[rough peak]

Those are some beefy poxwalkers

[low harbor]

21.25 ur not getting without cleave stack or ogryn weapon

[rough peak]

they've been taking roids

[low harbor]

But still not that relevant

[jovial heron]

Somebody said 21st?

Lmao

[rough peak]

Ah

[low harbor]

Because of cleave distribution

[rough peak]

21st are definitely more beefy

[low harbor]

After 4 targets u do basically no damage

And almost no stagger

[rough peak]

Oh I see

[jovial heron]

Right cause it decreases because of hitmass??

Or is it a flat amount per body cleaved?

[low harbor]

Cleave distribution in this game works as “every target hit by the atk is a separate damage/stagger profile”

It’s not a curve

[north crow]

cleave dmg and cleave are different things

[low harbor]

And it just so happens that cleave distribution has both damage and stagger fall off a lot

[astral canyon]

This is still such a weird fucking mechanic

[north crow]

for the longest time, most melees had a cleave dmg cap

[rough peak]

It makes sense that the more enemies you hit the less stagger you will do to subsequent enemies

[low harbor]

I don’t rly remember that

[astral canyon]

I mean yeah

[north crow]

ok, most ogryn ones at least 🙂

[astral canyon]

But the way they implemented it is baffling to me

[low harbor]

Yes but it’s done as hard coded profiles but not as curve

And FS fucking loves their curve distributions

[rough peak]

Ah

[low harbor]

This is like the one situation where doing it as curve makes more sense

But whatever

[rough peak]

Fatshark loves fucking with the player >.>

[low harbor]

Ya og weapons been bad since forever ago

[north crow]

yea

[rough peak]

It's sad but true

[north crow]

no other class could cleave that much

and they wanted oggy to be the CC bot

[astral canyon]

Would also be a lot less work in the long run

[low harbor]

Seeing bully club being recommended in any capacity before og rework was a certified John Darktide moment

[north crow]

so they kneecapped him

weird idea

[astral canyon]

Jorktide

[north crow]

BRING BACK OG BULLY CLUB

I dislike what they've done to

[rough peak]

Was in the folding shovels or the og shovel that could 1 shot multiple crushers, in the past?

[north crow]

turn brain off, spam heavies

[low harbor]

The other half of the argument is that

Take rampage vs wrath as an example

Which is a pretty common debate on zealot RB

Rampage is actually better dps and better stagger breakpoints

Rampage with impact talent stack is genuinely impressive at mixed horde

So impressive that the only good argument I see for wrath is that it does better vs pure horde when the sword is not activated

[north crow]

impact talent rampage with mk3 you say?

I gotta give that a testrun

[low harbor]

Punishment + grievous wounds + rampage

[rough peak]

I learn new stuff from path almost every time

[low harbor]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1444017590748975125/1497374144029917214/730AEBAD66016BAB.mp4?ex=69edf297&is=69eca117&hm=142d0cc9aa39fce0c3f74d735b3153a403abba8c27ce8d4e79f5d7fef44c8eed&

[low harbor]

I actually think punishment + GW is quite valid on almost every melee weapon for zealot

[north crow]

thats because of stagger hitmass reduce

?

dude

[jovial heron]

Hahaha

[north crow]

like knife thru butter

[rough peak]

Them changing it to 2 targets instead of 3 was huge

[jovial heron]

It’s funny as fuck

[north crow]

that one looks sexy

question

does hitmass stagger reduce applied insta

or only on the followup hit

[low harbor]

Not instantly

[jovial heron]

It’s like spamming Ogryn lights with thunder strike

[low harbor]

And frankly that’s a side benefit to me

[north crow]

would be too good

[low harbor]

The real question to me is

Do I want to hit 11 guys

Or hit 5 but stagger all 5

And not baby tier stagger

Actual stagger I can get value out of

[jovial heron]

Depends probably on how fast you can swing

[low harbor]

And to me I think the latter almost always is better

[queen saffron]

"Would you like $1 or $2" meme

[low harbor]

It’s the same reason I run slaughterer over sunder on power sword now

Also higher impact gets u longer stagger duration for the same stagger threshold

[low harbor]

It’s a change I just recently caught onto cuz I was looking at how much cleave is actually needed to “hit 3+”

And my conclusion was 10+ cleave

So hit 2+ realistically needs just 5+

However 10+ means that u can activate punishment even vs mauler and scab rager

[north crow]

hmm, I do need the +50% backstab vs caps even with martyr relic aye?

[low harbor]

Prob not

[mighty belfry]

You do.

[low harbor]

Martyr shouldn’t need it

[mighty belfry]

Oh martyr

Maybe not?

[low harbor]

Also @jovial heron I think there’s a easy way to check if the cleave u have is enough

Creature spawner trial - 10 scab shotgunners

See if ur melee weapon can kill them in reasonable time

If yes then u don’t necessarily need more cleave

[jovial heron]

Interesting

What’s reasonable time?

[low harbor]

10 scab shotgunners is 50 mass, 15000hp flak

[jovial heron]

Oh thank god you specified melee almost used my inferno staff

[low harbor]

Smth like 5~6s?

I forgot

[jovial heron]

I’ll try it out

[low harbor]

Power sword with slaughterer kills them in 6-7 atks

[jovial heron]

Charged?

[low harbor]

Obv

[jovial heron]

Heh

[low harbor]

This is to gauge melee cleave in the first place

But ya if u feel like ur not struggling against them then u should have enough cleave for havoc

[jovial heron]

Yeah I know I was being a smartass

It’s a good test

I hate getting into havoc and being like “well fuck”

I swear guys I am usually more useful

[north crow]

just wondering how to incorporate em into my lazy stealth martyr relic build

prolly

[jovial heron]

I always love seeing zealot and veteran trees

https://tenor.com/view/i-don't-know-what-any-of-this-shit-is-tim-robinson-i-think-you-should-leave-with-tim-robinson-i-have-no-idea-what-any-of-this-nonsense-is-i-have-no-idea-what-any-of-this-crap-is-gif-4751166963061575414

[north crow]

rampage overload

I know WS is better, I'm lazy

cranial

[unreal stirrup]

I think you need to be killed

[jovial heron]

https://tenor.com/view/he's-out-of-the-line-but-he's-right-he's-out-of-the-line-he-is-right-argument-sam-wilson-gif-16314799233491496524

[mighty belfry]

Wait

No Duelist

That is certainly a

Choice

[low harbor]

I had this for martyr

But I play IJ now

[north crow]

I'm the number one IJ hater

[low harbor]

Same point cost as martyr tho just bottom half different

[north crow]

hate inconsistency

ya

if I can skip 50% backstab and still onetap caps

than its all good

[low harbor]

I think u can

[unreal stirrup]

50% backstab you can't control it

[north crow]

true

[low harbor]

Run flak on RB

(U should anyway)

[north crow]

flak carapace I have

yea

I jsut dont care for disdain tho

[unreal stirrup]

I mean 2 tap captain isn't bad

[north crow]

not with mk2

[low harbor]

Disdain is like

[north crow]

I suppose its good enough

[low harbor]

Free rampage

[north crow]

hate spending 2 points there

[low harbor]

In terms of damage anyway

[north crow]

you get 2 stacks out of it on average I'd say

which is respectable

[low harbor]

It depends on the enemies u fight

But it’s not bad

[north crow]

but

if I can cleave more with the stagger nodes

[low harbor]

5~25% damage

[north crow]

might worth reconsidering

[low harbor]

I don’t have a RB stagger clip saved atm but

With punishment + GW + rampage

Activated H sweep can heavy stagger up to 6 Dreg ragers at once

It’s comical

[north crow]

which reminds me

are those backstab nodes flat base?

or not that good

[low harbor]

Backstab damage is multiplicative separate from +damage

[north crow]

25% shud outperform on stealth than no?

disdain

altho not without the threat reduction node you dont have

[astral canyon]

Ooooh

[low harbor]

Yes but u don’t need any extra backstab to get captain 1 tap cuz martyr

[north crow]

yea

thats the only BP I care about

if I can do that without, I can spend points elsewhere

[low harbor]

Better to get 10% melee damage on bottom left

My IJ build is super cursed lmao

Friend live reaction to this build above

[north crow]

oh I have the 10% atm

its so wroth for 1 point

[low harbor]

The much more cursed stagger spec eviscerator

[north crow]

eew

I mean, if you can have fury AS uptime high I suppose

[low harbor]

It’s like perma active

[north crow]

good enough I suppose

[low harbor]

I run cooldown curio on zealot cuz class has revive speed talent forced take

Don’t rly need more

[north crow]

not with fury 30 base

[low harbor]

No I mean I don’t run revive on zealot

Cuz zealot had a forced take revive talent

[north crow]

ah son lol

[low harbor]

So I can run triple cooldown instead

[north crow]

I dont run revive on anyone

[low harbor]

And get like 10.5s CD for FotF

[north crow]

I can revive with oggy / arbi anyhow

and backline can suck it

[low harbor]

I think 2 revive is good

Outside zealot and psyker

[north crow]

it definitely is

I'm just a greedy fuck

I hate pox with martyr so much, I just put 2 bomber on zealot instead

pox gas, that is

[low harbor]

I also have super cursed eviscerator 3 setup

Rampage + perfect strike

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

[north crow]

ooh

does perfect work with fury only reliably enough?

[low harbor]

Piety gives it decent uptime

[north crow]

scourge helps on evis

[low harbor]

And honestly

I don’t have to have perfect strike working all the time

[north crow]

true

it feels good tho

[low harbor]

Because mk3 H1 has x75% mass vs flak innate mod

So it can already reliably activate rampage vs everything except Dreg rager

Perfect strike is literally just for maniac

[north crow]

I dont think people realize how much the mk15 has to pay for its simplicity

with stagger and dmg

[low harbor]

Mk15 gets most of that back by being the only chain weapon with a good activated heavy sawing atk

[north crow]

altho falling just short of onetapping a havoc crusher with revved H2 feels superfuckinbad

on mk3

exactly

mk15 H1 is sex

[low harbor]

I also have

Rampage + bloodthirsty on evis 15

Cuz it can activate rampage/savage sweep easily

[north crow]

evis marks are actually how every weapon shud be

they are distinct and both good

with clearly defined pros and cons

[low harbor]

Distinct yes but neither is good enough

If mk3 had mk15’s activated sawing damage then it’d be actually good

[north crow]

zealot is not a DLC class

[low harbor]

The chainsaw ticks just don’t do nearly enough across the board

[north crow]

gotta keep that in mind

cant have em overshadow scum!

[low harbor]

Even if it had mk15 sawing damage it’s still not as good as hive scum with Rashad

[mighty belfry]

Scourge broke

[north crow]

not really

scourge is a lot less useful than you'd expect most of the time

[low harbor]

Because it’s broken

It’s bugged to not work for killing blows vs bleeding enemies in live matches

[north crow]

it also takes 4 hits to stack up, and loses all stacks at once

on a pretty strict timer

[low harbor]

The timer isn’t that bad tbh

[north crow]

I don't care much for scourge unless taxe / knife

or DS if I'd use that

its pretty good with shred martyr evis too

but for something liek a relic, I won't ever take it

[low harbor]

It’s 2 attacks to stack up

[north crow]

huh

how

[low harbor]

Crit attack hit 3 guys
Any attack hit those same 3 guys

[north crow]

it takes 4 for me

[low harbor]

Ok now u have max stacks

[mighty belfry]

No like

It's actually broken

Scourge is a really good talent but it currently doesn't function properly in game

[north crow]

and by currently, you mean the past 3y? 😄

[mighty belfry]

Huh

It definitely hasn't been three years.

This happened more recently.

[north crow]

wasnt dot kills not counting towards melee always been the case?

or since scum

[mighty belfry]

It was never kills to begin with. It's melee hits on bleeding targets.

[low harbor]

The bug is not dot kills

The bug is melee killing blows not counting

[north crow]

right

that explains

why it feels so lackluster on anything not fast swining

[mighty belfry]

It's that killing them itself is eating the procs

[low harbor]

In meat grinder where it’s not bugged it’s actually really consistent

[mighty belfry]

Using a lacerate knife would guarantee max stacks in dense hordes constantly

Sometime in the recent past, the procs broke.

[north crow]

at this point, fuck stingray, just make your new game in UE5 already

[unkempt salmon]

Quickplay Damnation is just nonstop Orthus Offensive today

Peculiar

[north saddle]

If y'all could add one weapon from the lore to the hivescum, what would it be?

[jovial heron]

Dual power swords hahaha

[north saddle]

I am pretty sure thats not lore accurate

[mighty belfry]

Eviscerator

They already have chain axe and chainsword

[jovial heron]

It fell off the truck

[astral canyon]

Virus bomb :3

[manic wolf]

S H O V E L

[high gull]

Grenade launcher

Like the mgl type

Or a lmg like in necromunda

Or dual revolvers

[mighty belfry]

You mean the one that the veteran has

IN THE FUCKING ARCHETYPE ART BUT NOT IN GAME?

I will always and forever be salty that there's just a bunch of cool weapons in those arts that aren't in game

[high gull]

No no no

Necromunda has like a belt fed bolter lmg

It makes sense all the guns from that game would be in the hands of hive scum

If I can find a picture of all the guns I’ll post them

All these guns right here

Are prime material for scum to have

[mighty belfry]

Oh right its not a stubber. Just a full on belt fed bolter

[mighty belfry]

I mean. I can kinda see why they might not wanna put that one in actually

[manic wolf]

Stub Cannon would be nice too tbh

[high gull]

And almost all cosmetics for scum show them being augmented humans

So the whole

“Too heavy”

[manic wolf]

We're all augmented

[high gull]

Logic wouldn’t apply

[manic wolf]

Have you seen our drug intakes?

[high gull]

Just a casual Tuesday innit

[high gull]

But I feel like this is perfectly serviceable

Make it a brace gun

Have suppression based blessings

Ez pz

The idea scum isn’t beholden by hadron and can just slap together anything they find

Isn’t being utilized enough

[eager reef]

hadron threatening to to rip our spines out for field repairs would be amusing

[eager reef]

though tbh i would be happy if we got offered skins taht make the weapons look like they are made of scrap

since they are in the market of selling stuff to us

[flat mist]

TRRUUUUUUUEEEE

This is not how pseudo-rando distro plays out

Hurts my math teacher soul to see this

[jovial heron]

We tried to protect you….

[flat mist]

Btw i dont appreciate the implication that im not already intolerable

[jovial heron]

https://tenor.com/view/spiderman-missed-part-where-thats-my-problem-gif-18535010

[flat mist]

Dont make me get my piss bin

[jovial heron]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-drink-spongebob-thirsty-lemonade-gif-25859544

[manic wolf]

You're a teacher, you were spawned with 100 insufferable points

[lusty spear]

Why did no one tell me the bone saw fucks

[flat mist]

Did you mean to write that the bonesaw sucks?

[muted pivot]

idk people seem to underrate crit chance so much on weapons that have like a 4x finesse multiplier

you really don't want to normal-hit on shivs

I consider normal hits to just be miss+

[livid raven]

just hit the weakspot

[dusk dock]

maximum required brainpower for hive scum

[muted pivot]

Crits add more than weakspot though

[flat mist]

Because they dumb dumb

[flat mist]

The average weakspot rate for h40 players is in the 40s

Weakspot rates tend to be higher into hordes

Suggesting a lower rate into the stuff you actually care about

Thats not high enough to justify not maximising crit on high finesse weapons

[unreal stirrup]

weakspot rate doesn't account for cleave since you can hit non weakspot on n enemy

or skill issue idk

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914161923334214/1495496372236062950/20260420014822_1.jpg?ex=69ef06c8&is=69edb548&hm=d5a5cad458228157a9801359117ba3ea35935c49d8f375462c2082216242efe7&

[north crow]

How does it play out?

I am trying to find the page I was directed to

https://observablehq.com/@manuelblanc/pseudo-random-distribution

found it

According to the calculator, weighting shifts towards first hit crit at 67%

what does it not tell us proper?

[flat mist]

Why do you think thats relevant to actual in game performance?

[north crow]

it is something to go by evaulating your build

[flat mist]

No, its not

Because your effective crit chance does not change

[north crow]

when you have to decide whether to have 67 + 30% dmg or 87% crit

[flat mist]

The "breakpoints" mean nothing

70% crit chance in pseudo-rando in first two pics. Your effective crit chance is still 70%

80% is the second picture

[north crow]

so in their words, weighting simply means 50+1

because 75 is significantly higher than 57

and all 67 guaruntees is crit in max 2 hits?

[flat mist]

Im not sure what this means and i dont want to make assumptions. Can you reword it?

[flat mist]

But yes thats all 67 guarantees

[north crow]

when the calculator says first hit crit

it simple means tipping over 50% chance

and what it means more accurately

is guarunteed crit in max 2 hits

[flat mist]

I think the only use case for caring about this breakpoint is something like blaze trauma

[north crow]

ok let me put it in practice

[flat mist]

Even then its kinda irrelevant bc you're still like 98% likely to get a crit on your 2nd hit if you're just under the threshold

[north crow]

in my case

I stopped taking the 20% dodge node top

to make room for the 2 bottom left

because I don't care for 25% WS without the new followup node

but now, it's pretty darn good

and swapped from precog to riposte to compensate

because having tried precog vs riposte (87%) before, precog did a lot more harm

more crit gave me faster mixed horde for sure

but precog evaporates bosses

[flat mist]

You just want to take all of it on shivs bc of its finesse bonus + finesse in general is how hyper violence scales to the stratosphere

[north crow]

I meant, I dont have swap speed lel

which is a good point

I don't think I've realized the overdmg part can crit when I made the loadout

because that's what makes HV hyperscale indeed

kinda forgat bout that

[flat mist]

The damage you cause from hyperviolence is buffed by literally everything except +damage and strength

(Well, technically +damage taken debuffs too)

[north crow]

no I mean, I did not realize at start

that it can actually crit

the overcap part

[flat mist]

Thats what i mean

[north crow]

ok

but yea

that makes crit all that more important indeed

[flat mist]

If you crit and do 100 regular damage + 50 damage from HV they'll both get modified by critting, finesse bonus, armour damage perks, ADMs, etc

[north crow]

aye

[flat mist]

But only the 100 gets modified by +damage and + strength

[north crow]

huh, is that so

that makes crit even more important regarding HV

[flat mist]

And finesse

[north crow]

I'm still not convinced about the 20% fully

[flat mist]

In my testing with a hyperviolence mod its practically impossible to keep scaling up HV without precog or finesse stimm up

[north crow]

but that's only because of the 2s duration

that is very interesting

[flat mist]

Because without them not critting and other damage lows break the chain

[north crow]

yea makes sense if they only scale off finesse

[flat mist]

3s duration on butterfly

[north crow]

3

meh

thats aight I suppose

[flat mist]

Not only, its just one of the main modifiers since we're already relying on crits/weakspots

[north crow]

yea after a point, I understand

[flat mist]

Its always worth it bc crit good

Quick and deadly however is kinda poo

[north crow]

quick and deadly being?

[flat mist]

15% close range damage on dodge, 3s duration

[north crow]

am playing div2 atm sorry 😄

ah ya,. never had that

[unique dagger]

it's actually decent but it cannot outcompete the other more consistent talents for a spot in the build

if it was on other classes I might've thought about it more

[north crow]

You have room for it with a rashad

where you don't have to grab every crit

[vapid pine]

Why does the dual stub pistols feel so effin good??? Legitimately my fav ranged weapon in the whole game

[flat mist]

do*

[acoustic viper]

Aura

[muted pivot]

Got that max payne coolness factor

[cedar cairn]

They do have an excellent snappiness to them

[astral canyon]

unfortunately their blessings kinda suck

[cedar cairn]

Eh, they get by with the same Run n Gun + Speedload that dual autos do ime

[main trellis]

Not really
Run & gun is perfect cause less spread = better acc
Desperado & sustained work very well as secondary blessings

[astral canyon]

i mean that the majority of the blessings try to push it into the role of a primary weapon for gun scum builds

[main trellis]

Considering them being a backup ranged vs specials mainly speedloader ain’t great of a choice
Use desperado or sustained fire

[astral canyon]

when where it really works best is as a sidearm for melee

[cedar cairn]

Stubs are worse at crowd control but they're much better into mixed hordes

[astral canyon]

sustained fire also doesnt work if you're chaining spin shots

[main trellis]

Like we haven’t seen blessings that should never been on some weapons to begin with

So no big deal

[astral canyon]

if it had opening salvo and point blank it would be peak

god i fucking wish it had those

[main trellis]

If
Its good for quick shots which you should be using the weapon in the first place
Spinshot is clunky

[cedar cairn]

I don't use the stubs as a secondary, I use them for Desperado

For secondary I just use the revolver or agrippy

[raw sierra]

so I've been playing scum for a bit and it just seems like a zealot on crack, is there anything zealot does better? I guess survivability?

[bronze glade]

zealot can give the team piss toughness

nothing else i'd care about zealot for

[brittle sierra]

No

Psyker and Scum are the best classes in the game by a landslide atm

[zenith pagoda]

Zealot is far more forgiving yes, you have a second life and permanent stun immunity. But scum kills everything so quick to the point where it has better survivability because all the enemies are dead

(if you're good)

[faint fossil]

So i haven't played in a while and idk if its a bug or something but my stimm suply isn't working outside the initial area?

idk if its a visual bug or something

[main trellis]

Boss deletion

[bronze glade]

there's that but running thammer has a lot of... tradeoffs

[main trellis]

Dmg is not great but CC & boss/elite killing is prime
Also fun factor

[jovial heron]

Can’t you delete bosses with relic blade?

[unreal stirrup]

thammer does up to near 90k while relic is about 47k on shroudfield hit

[livid raven]

relic blade is more generalist

[unreal stirrup]

thammer can 2 tap full hp bosses on h40 but yeah relic is more generalist + near 1 tap weakened bosses

[compact oyster]

Also relic blade can oneshot captains on havoc 40

[unreal stirrup]

I mean both of them does

[icy lark]

man the shiv mk III heavy attack kinda sucks

[unreal stirrup]

shiv mk3 suck

[bronze glade]

nah it's quite good on a full attack speed build

blender mode

[unreal stirrup]

I mean you can just use mk6 knife in that case since it can stack hv a lot easier with push attack + h1-h2

[bronze glade]

mk6 can't really do blender mode

[unreal stirrup]

the light does less damage but you can stack hv way faster + better so it kinda cancel it out

[bronze glade]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444017590748975125/1490089462594666647/431EB71.MP4?ex=69ef21b4&is=69edd034&hm=cc339014becd0711bd6d9dcd1e15c282af488e113384a880b166bbd7f1cc569a&

also kinda the whole point is to use light attack spam

[jovial heron]

Even into armor?

[bronze glade]

yeah i mean single target combo sucks so whatever

[unreal stirrup]

I mean close enough

#psyker-class message

[bronze glade]

meh

[pure nacelle]

i have 2 +2 stamina curios w/ shivs. however, my stamina isn't increasing. is there a cap, or is there something im missing?

[dense hollow]

if you have just 4 stamina "blocks" then you dont have the setting turned on that shows every single stamina block you have

[pure nacelle]

So, base 2 stamina, 2 (+2) stamina curios, +1 stamina from shivs.
That's 7 total stamina.
My bars show 5.
Where is the setting for showing true stamina?

[astral canyon]

base 3 stamina

2 stamina base is vet

[pure nacelle]

i misunderstood. i thought the lower bar, the dodges, reflected how much stamina you have

[brittle sierra]

But you sacrifice killing everything else 💀

[main trellis]

no you don't

[brittle sierra]

I refuse to believe that stealth is useful outside of objectives and boss killing

[unkempt salmon]

66/66 Hive Scum penances complete 🙏 I can go back to playing classes that don't require higher brain function

[tranquil fjord]

does this imply hive scum requires much brain function?

[unkempt salmon]

Well yes

At least comparatively

[tranquil fjord]

with less mobility and outright killing power than a rampage hive scum

would a melee veteran have to think less?

or more

[flat mist]

https://outplayed.tv/warhammer-40k-darktide/zo28kr

Real blendering

Was focusing way too much on the hv numbers in my chat window and not on avoiding hits too

[unreal stirrup]

tiktok ah aspect ratio

you need to be killed

[flat mist]

Buy me ram

[unreal stirrup]

oh nvm i just have to zoom in

[unreal stirrup]

@bronze glade

[unkempt salmon]

Less, imo, since Voice of Command is safer than Rampage and has easier CDR

*At least in my experience

[bronze glade]

bro playing on 20 fps 💀

and when you pinged me, i expected something actually impressive

[main trellis]

its not the ability
its the Thammer build itself
and alos other factors

https://cdn.steamusercontent.com/ugc/15936169410129341949/2164B47E1967BA360BC89C859281359B984812B0/

I don't care

[bronze glade]

the far superior blender build, not that mk6 knife really even rises to the level of being a blender

and unlike irosk's clip, i actually fight bulwarks here

[eager reef]

this looks like fun

[flat mist]

Should be called SirSalty

The whole point of my clip is maxxing out hyperviolence

[flat mist]

Also this makes literally anything i do more impressive

Outstyled by a dude playing on a potato, must feel bad

[bronze glade]

build if you want it

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a090743a-94b8-4885-a17a-15e9637e554d/hello-im-dreg-rager

it's a very one note build

you just ult and light spam

that's pretty much it lol

[flat mist]

Sprint efficiency + stam on needle pistol but desperado and no run n gun?

Sprint efficiency is actual vibes but the other two choices make no sense

[bronze glade]

i was wondering why the channel keeps coming up with unread messages when nobody had sent messages

it's irosk coming up with low effort rage bait isn't it?

[flat mist]

Jesus christ what a loser. Insults me but cant even face seeing my messages 💀

[manic wolf]

Tbh, all your blender builds are shit because you're not using TacAxe

[bronze glade]

that's the neat part

you could take that build

and replace mk3 shivs with mk4 taxe

and then boom, blender taxe build

and it'll actually be very good too

[manic wolf]

But you didn't. Did you.

So your build is shit until you post T-Axe propaganda

[bronze glade]

https://tenor.com/view/no-i-don't-think-i-will-cap-avengers-marvel-gif-6420739801263939210

[molten shale]

Here you go; scummiest tacaxe build
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a1a3fd6b-3e62-4504-972f-cebec5ef828c/actual-dreg-rager

[woeful hill]

Love me claw

[blissful gull]

is adrenaline better than chem dep on rampage scum?

[tranquil fjord]

depends on the weapon and opinion

usually its chem dependency

[blissful gull]

shivs? what about rashad?

[tranquil fjord]

id take adrenaline on combat axe, heavy sword

shivs take chem dependency i think

[tranquil fjord]

adrenaline smiter is good with these

oh and the chainaxe too

they fixed the smiter bug with rev attacks

[blissful gull]

do you take hyperviolence or hypercrit with it?

[tranquil fjord]

you can take both on a rampage build

on combat axe, chainaxe, and crowbar only hyperviolence though

there is some debate over it but generally

you should always take hyperviolence for rampage

[blissful gull]

so if I run rashad, take just hyperviolence? with shivs, maybe take both or just one?

[tranquil fjord]

.

and then hypercrit on shivs

[blissful gull]

I think I hit send as soon as you sent that lol

[tranquil fjord]

although you can play without hypercrit on shivs

sadly hypercrit has some reactions with weapon blessings

such as chained deathblow on heavy sword

which is crit on weakspot kill

which doesnt activate from hypercrit i think

[blissful gull]

I unironically have better ttk in havoc40 with just hyper-crit than just hyper-violence on shivs; though my crit is at like 100% the whole time.

for the rashad, do you just not take puvlerizing strikes or any cleave talents b/c of brutal momentum?

[tranquil fjord]

i only really take the cleave on rampage and cleave on kill with bromentum

for rashad

i mean they all help

i havent tried the other cleave talent though

[blissful gull]

really? i thought more cleave did nothing if you ahd bromemtum. isn't 0 hitmass the same as infinite cleave?

reckon this is good?

[tranquil fjord]

for rashad?

i dont think you need rampage rending for rashad

alley rat is my preferred dodge talent for rashad too

its pretty good, the build id say

[blissful gull]

thanks man!

[blissful gull]

is its normal dodge super low? normally I run shivs so alley rat sends me flying

[tranquil fjord]

alley rat helps with the flow of dodges for me on rashad so that theyre closer to shivs

like, distance

[blissful gull]

also, is it unyielding/caprace tpyically on the axe?

[tranquil fjord]

yeah?

yeah

i think so

you already hit the breakpoints

also, for brutal momentum

straight from the guide

"when killing a non-ogryn enemy with a weakspot kill, the blessing allows this attack to ignore the hit mass of the slain enemy and, additionally, the combined hit mass of the next two non-ogryn enemies if they can also be killed on weakspot hit by the same attack. Then, on the fourth hit enemy, the attack starts to consume its natural hit mass budget until it is spent. Note that the attack also carries over its first target damage against the first four hit enemies (instead of only dealing full damage against the first target and then, as per damage cleave distribution, reduced damage against cleaved targets)."

[blissful gull]

thanks. for the last point I accidently put into rending during rampage, what do you think I ought to put it into?

[tranquil fjord]

tbh

you already have street tough

could take forge's bellow or pickpocket

[blissful gull]

thank you!

[blissful gull]

what stimm is best for rashad?

also, is cheap shots better than quick and deadly for rashad?

[low harbor]

rashad doesn't need the cleave talents (besides rampage's cleave subnode)

[flat mist]

Drop close and deadly for forges imo

[low harbor]

5-point cooldown (take kalma V)

I run this for rashad

[flat mist]

The issue with alley rat is it has a longer time between dodges, so your muscle memory has to get used to different timing

I hate it

[ebon lintel]

Are the builds pinned in the chat still relevant?

Or are there better ones now that are up to date?

I just got the class and want to make 1 build from all keystones possible

for penances and such

[bronze glade]

they are quite old

[ebon lintel]

where can I find good new ones

[bronze glade]

there isn't a centralized hive scum guide unfortunately

you'll just have to ask

there's a good rashad one that path just posted above

[ebon lintel]

rashad?

[bronze glade]

combat axe mark

[supple torrent]

Do I need cleave talents for cbar?

[ebon lintel]

If anyone else has good builds pls send them : )

[muted pivot]

I tend to take cleave talents on any weapon that doesn't have bromentum

idk if that's right or not

I can't get crowbar to work personally though so idk

[muted pivot]

Rashad is also a great sidearm for a desperado build imo

barely needs to be built into, keeps you safe from all trash and kills crushers

everything a desperado needs help with

[main trellis]

Not required
When even shivs on rampage do not take them it tells you smth

[main trellis]

I kill crushers with despy tho

[main trellis]

Needs att spd…
Vs mass its gonna be very bad for ya & its mobility will weight you down

[astral canyon]

Yeah rashad is not a good sidearm

Its for melee builds

[muted pivot]

You can take an attack speed stamina node np

[wind crane]

so is uzis dead? i never see anyone playing it in h40

[main trellis]

Could ye
I do not & even with it it was doodoo

[astral canyon]

No

[wind crane]

im not exaggerating

never see anyone

0

[main trellis]

No; ppl just play easier builds
So rampage crit

[astral canyon]

Not really enough on its own

[muted pivot]

I do Rashad with twin autos

[main trellis]

Me neither
Exept myself

[muted pivot]

The autos are killing the trash mostly anyway, Rashad just keeps me safe in between

[main trellis]

I tried it & it was bad

[wind crane]

damn imagine hearing someone say melee is easier than uzi when scum was released

[muted pivot]

And it kills Crushers fastest of all scum melees iirc?

[manic wolf]

Idk about that chief Rampage is giga-fucking-broken at this point, but its not broken like Despy Scum can be simply by virtue of not making you immune to little gunny lads

[astral canyon]

With dedicated build

[wind crane]

true but just use ur move mechanics and immune anyway

[main trellis]

I mean; rampage will get you out of any situation
Despy won’t

[wind crane]

and blackout nade

[astral canyon]

Rampage is way more broken

[wind crane]

oof if you get caught by a shotgunner tho

[manic wolf]

Yesnt, whilst true, Despy also massively reduces the chances of ever needing to fight your way out of the shit because you probably arent buried up to the hilt with it in the same way melee gameplay ends up being on Scum

[main trellis]

Unironically take crowbar
Its better

[astral canyon]

And the pickpocket nerf means you cant perma range when outside of desperado

[astral canyon]

No fucking way lmao

[muted pivot]

Tried crowbar

[main trellis]

Highly varied cause terrain

[muted pivot]

It was not the choice

[manic wolf]

Idk man, as much as Rampage is ridiculous at this point, an ult letting you literally delete game mechanics from your run is not healthy.

[astral canyon]

Neither is rampage healthy

[manic wolf]

I didnt say it was.

[main trellis]

Yes way; moveset is nice, guarantee stagger on beak mode, fast, has actual cleave

Great push att too

[main trellis]

Maybe you need to try again then

[muted pivot]

Rashad still kills 4 of any trash per swing without issue in non melee build

[manic wolf]

That is an absolute non-factor imo

[muted pivot]

And the heavies kill Crushers without latching

[main trellis]

Latching ain’t the problem; never was

[astral canyon]

It is a problem lmao

Makes you vulnerable and cant scale from attack speed

[manic wolf]

Its not, because you just dont use the latch mode

[main trellis]

Position yourself better & observe the enemy better

[unreal stirrup]

💀

[main trellis]

Seriously tho; its good, even on its own with can for brittle

[astral canyon]

That is still something rashad doesnt need to deal with

[unreal stirrup]

willy stop baiting

[manic wolf]

Until they give the 'bar enemy priority when in beaky mode, its dead in the water

[astral canyon]

And again latch attacks dont scale with attack speed

[unreal stirrup]

latching is fine if you aren't fighting 30 enemies at once

but uh

this is the game where you fight 50 enemies at once

[main trellis]

Hell; that brittle you can utilize to shoot crushers cause beak hit is a double so you apply 20% brittle; hit twice & swap to uzis & shoot; if despy with rending str stimm can delete crushers 40% brittle will do too

[manic wolf]

No, its fine even then, the issue is when you have your targeting centered on a Mauler or Crusher and some random poxwalker standing next to said enemy eats the swing instead and its just an endless cycle of playing ultra-violent whack-a-mole until RNG finally decides you hit the target you were looking at

[main trellis]

As i said; observe the enemy & manipulate the slot system

[main trellis]

I’m not; i do not like baiting anyways

[muted pivot]

Rashad works better for me the way I play than a crowbar would

Maybe mark 6 knife is a choice though

But I hate that knife

[main trellis]

Not required; if you pure range build all you need is that occasional 1 melee kill for pickpocket if you ran out

[manic wolf]

TacAxe

[main trellis]

I use it; push att is perfect for quick kills for pickpocket

[main trellis]

I did not had problems with that honestly

[manic wolf]

Thats my number one bugbear with it

An its not even close. If I'm looking at a fucking Mauler, my swing should hit that Mauler and not the random poxwalker 5 feet away simply because he was closer as the crow flies. (Bit of exaggeration, but thats how it feels in high pressure situations)

[muted pivot]

Tac axe is for dedicated melee imo

[main trellis]

Its good defensively but for quick kill not so much

[unreal stirrup]

tac axe doesn't need much investment if you're only using it for horde clear

needler for armor/bosses

[manic wolf]

Wait wut

[muted pivot]

It's pretty quick at anything not a crusher

[unreal stirrup]

tac for horde

[muted pivot]

And we have needles and rockets for that

[main trellis]

In terms of pickpocket i mean

[manic wolf]

Even then... you can stack HV up to the point you can literally one shot them

[unreal stirrup]

that not really practical in actual game

[manic wolf]

Eh, I would still argue against that. It has one really powerful attribute that would massive contribute to easy PP procs

The special stagger.

[unreal stirrup]

• tac axe middling cara adm

[muted pivot]

It's good enough to kill Crushers anyway tbh, sometimes faster than needler reload

It's middling but rampage helps

But it's so fast Vs everything else

[unreal stirrup]

anything kill crusher in second with rampage

[muted pivot]

So might as well hope to get that lucky HV strike

[main trellis]

Does no dmg; its a stagger move

[manic wolf]

It's rare, but its not impractical. At the end of the day you have to give up your stacks every now an then just to deal with ranged units or what ever else an its trivial to re-stack provided sufficient density

[main trellis]

Its about getting the kill fast before you get overwhelmed or the kill gets stolen from you by your team

[manic wolf]

Yes. The free stagger attack on a class with very little stagger that at least needs to play some melee at some point...

Totally not very valuable

[main trellis]

Never said its not valuable
Its not the best if you plan to get a quick kill is all

[manic wolf]

I would argue its better for that because you're guaranteeing that enemy isnt gonna fight back, but ymmv

[main trellis]

Thats fair but its about the kill not being stolen from you (main issue tbh; i experienced it a couple of times - knife gave the best results cause fast with added stagger from the push + it can have some boss dmg help in a form of bleed)

[main trellis]

About that;
I did use crowbar on rampage; that issue is present but… i experienced it maybe 3 times? (I am not joking; i faintly remember 3 times and no more; its all about positioning, camera movement & hitbox control with it - requires practice but its perfectly fine)

[muted pivot]

I want to like the bar, don't get me wrong

It feels like chain axe but worse though

I think I would like it more if it had can opener built in instead of needing a blessing

[main trellis]

Could be great ye
But do not deny its tech usefulness; do experiment with it, trully

I would use it on my despy scum… but i use only 1 weapon per build… and planned to make rampage crowbar so… yeah…

[muted pivot]

I'm sure it has a niche where people are really good with it

[main trellis]

Good comes with experience

[muted pivot]

And I like a lot of niche weapons, I still use a Twubber and my Zealot's chain axe 4

It's just crowbar doesn't work for me right now in its present form

[main trellis]

Twubber
Toober

[astral canyon]

Twink

[muted pivot]

If you link me your build I will try it though

[main trellis]

For the crowbar or despy?

[muted pivot]

The crowbar one

[main trellis]

This is what i normally use; would use that on pure despy build too

[blissful gull]

in havoc 40 it doesn't need the cleave? I

[astral canyon]

Youre mostly relying on brutal momentum anyways and rampage already gives quite a bit of cleave between the +50% of the subnode and +75% strength

[blissful gull]

why invest in chem toxin on a low crit weapon? IDK how good it is with rashad

[blissful gull]

thank you!

[astral canyon]

Coated is tax node to reach splash and virulent really

[blissful gull]

are they erally that good?

[astral canyon]

Its pretty good yeah

And also pocket toxin blinders

[blissful gull]

I thought chemnade and rocket were basically always better in havoc?

[astral canyon]

Havoc has the most density for you to get value out of the regen

[manic wolf]

Splash is an absurd skill

Free HV shovelling

[low harbor]

because rashad doesn't need either rampage rending or battering strikes (which saves u 2 points that can be allocated to getting more dmg)

and tox blinder with a weapon that's as good at getting kills as rashad means u can spam it constantly

debuffing everything (lowering their hp so that u can kill even better with BM)

[blissful gull]

is virulent strain also that worth it?

[low harbor]

it's x% damage taken

not +% damage

[blissful gull]

idk what the diff is lol

[manic wolf]

Multiplicative vs additive

[blissful gull]

+10% damage is 1.1x damage multiplier

[low harbor]

not exactly

say u have +25% damage from elsewhere in the tree already

+10% to that gets u +35%

but x110% is a separate multiplicative step in dmg

and virulent is x% global damage taken so it works for everything that hits the enemy that got debuffed

[blissful gull]

so either its 1.35x damage with no virulent strain, or its 1.25*1.1=1.375x damage?

[low harbor]

virulent gets u the latter

[manic wolf]

To use Borderlands terminology, its effectively a fresh mult

[blissful gull]

that's like a 2.5% damage increase for 2 points of talent tho

[low harbor]

not 2 points

just 1 really

because I was gonna take pocket toxin + splash damage anyway

[blissful gull]

pocket tox

like IDK if cheapshots and quick and deadly will give net better damage

[low harbor]

cheapshots only works for enemy during the stagger

[blissful gull]

since the 1.1x fresh mult seems good, but there are other perks that just say they give a bunch of flat damage

[low harbor]

and Q&D is kinda meh

[blissful gull]

does rashad not have good stagger?

I thought its heavies could stagger crushers

[low harbor]

there's a difference between having good stagger breakpoints, and having long stagger duration

[blissful gull]

it's why I take jittery since it lets me dodge constantly

[astral canyon]

Its mostly +15% damage talents

[unreal stirrup]

jittery is so ass lmao

[manic wolf]

If Scum got Crusher, there would be no argument about Cheap Shots holding value, but alas

[winged bay]

jittery is one of the best nodes

[manic wolf]

(Also that would be really fucking broken)

[blissful gull]

it's not a long stagger? I thought you could chain stagger them

[astral canyon]

Jittery is alright

[unreal stirrup]

yeah if ONLY scum didn't have +1 more dodge and dodge being easy to manage

[winged bay]

it's okay to be wrong

[unreal stirrup]

it's okay to be wrong

[astral canyon]

Its just really unnecessary when scum has an extra dodge for just existing

[manic wolf]

Jittery is probably better for a smoother UX, but in terms of fun?

Nah, Alley Rat blows it out the water and absolutely will get you killed with gravity

[astral canyon]

Like dodge management is piss easy on scum

[winged bay]

you only ever die as scum if you run out of dodges or run into a dead end

if you never die, you can skip jittery

[low harbor]

all enemies have a period of stagger immunity right after being staggered; unless u reach a stagger threshold higher than the last

[astral canyon]

And if you know how to manage dodges the former doesnt really happen

[winged bay]

of course if you are playing auric or whatever, it's mostly useless

[low harbor]

remember that both methods of applying tox with the build I sent do it in AOE

it just obliterates mixed hordes

[winged bay]

dodges are for mobility too, not just sitting on your dodges in case you get overheaded

[low harbor]

kill a single elite via melee + blackout means everything around u has 5 tox, get the tox dmg taken debuff and are on the floor

super safe, easy to BM wipe everything, just rly strong

[blissful gull]

thanks, I'll try it out!

[low harbor]

run it with lethal proximity boltpistol VI for best effect

if u just hate boltpistol like I do then dual stubs are good too as melee backup

[compact oyster]

also clamping attacks now trigger splash damage

which is super useful

crowbar does so much damage the latch usualy kills

[blissful gull]

it effects splash damage?

[low harbor]

no but it will make blackout's explosions bigger

so that it applies the 3 tox stacks to more things

and stagger more things

[main trellis]

Splash damage talent; read it

[muted pivot]

Love it, super dodges are so goofy

[manic wolf]

Yup. We go fast up in this house (and probably forget most ledges dont have guard rails)

Truly living life on the edge

[muted pivot]

Or several metres past it

[manic wolf]

Nah, you're dead at that point aintcha mucka

[lament axle]

Hello all, I am new to the hive world. This is fun and I’m happy to be here

[forest willow]

https://tenor.com/view/mao-zedong-hello-chat-mao-gif-22461031

Have you heard of Necromunda

[lament axle]

I have not, I am new to the warhammer phase

[forest willow]

Wouldst thou care for indoctrination

https://tenor.com/view/doug-walker-fnaf-turning-around-turning-doug-turning-around-gif-23411544

[lament axle]

Idk man, you got a pamphlet

[crimson moss]

can any of us even read

[muted pivot]

Idk, do any of 7.6 billion dreg ragers read?

[manic wolf]

I dont think 7.6 billion is a big enough sample size.

Something something infinite monkeys and typewriters...

[warm axle]

https://tenor.com/view/dad-turn-meme-look-at-gif-16992106093980404324

[forest willow]

I can help you acquire every single book

https://tenor.com/view/anton-chigurh-no-country-for-old-men-ok-oops-javier-bardem-gif-10579690

[lament axle]

I gotta weigh my options

I haven’t fully set my loyalty to a faction yet cuz im stuck between 3 rn

[forest willow]

#40k-lore-chat message
#40k-lore-chat message
Also this works, these two posts I made

[forest willow]

3 Necromunda gangs, surely 🫡

[tranquil fjord]

limbsplitter makes me sad as a blessing

[livid raven]

Many such cases

[astral canyon]

Ye limbsplitter is a waste of a blessing

[lament axle]

I mean the bikers seem cool

But they aren’t space marines so idk

Unless they are space marines on bikes then you have me

[astral canyon]

Space marines💤

[lament axle]

Nah man they are chad af

[astral canyon]

Mid

[lament axle]

Aura

All of them

Good and bad

[neat delta]

They're toymen

[astral canyon]

Completely manufactured

[lament axle]

And I love them

[astral canyon]

Only space marine that is actually cool is Caedo

[forest willow]

Truth nuke

And le funny jetpacks

[lament axle]

When I started space marine 2 and reading some factions the salamanders were my favorite over all

But now that I’m coming back to it

There’s too many and idk what to pick

[neat delta]

Think of it like ice cream

You like what you like

[calm aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/icecream-national-chocolate-ice-cream-day-ice-cream-ice-cream-yummy-ice-cream-eating-gif-14829910579400951909

[wooden flax]

Is there any chance of Hive Scum getting a demo or trial at any point in the future? Been wanting to play it since it first came out but I'm super short on cash at the moment and can't pick it up until July or August

[flat mist]

No

[calm aurora]

that has never been done but usually they drop the price when the next class is out

[wooden flax]

Ah, eesh :( Been waiting for a discount for a while now but I'm not sure I'll be able to get it any time soon even if it does get one

[verbal dew]

isn't there a discount for arby and scum combo rn?

tho you might already have arby

[wooden flax]

I get 15% off yeah, but even still my budget is close to zero for the next few months

[calm aurora]

honestly wait

[thin seal]

why do people like brutal momentum on mk7 tac axe when the swings arent very horizontal? the light attacks are mostly vertical or slightly angled at best

[bronze glade]

Because the horde clear combo isn’t light spam

[mighty belfry]

Push attack + heavy

Your question is now answered.

[thin seal]

so basically just cycle PA + H1

idk, still seems hard to justify with the cleave from rampage + headtaker, but I guess ill just have to test it out in some runs

[hollow leaf]

Oh lord yes to the hammer

[mighty belfry]

I can explain a justification regarding hyperviolence

Brutal momentum not only makes your attack ignore hitmass against four enemies in a swipe

It also ignores cleave distribution, meaning it will do the same damage to all of those targets until after the fourth.

[forest willow]

Go ahead. Buy a Necromunda gang. Do it.

[mighty belfry]

How hyperviolence helps here is that it basically adds a flat value based on the amount of overkill you get from killing the target. So with how Brutal Momentum works, it ramps overkill damage extremely quickly.

[thin seal]

does the 15% damage boost from tertium welcome also apply to the first 4 targets with brutal momentum

[mighty belfry]

And that overkill can ignore cleave distribution entirely, meaning you can kill beyond those four targets.

[hollow leaf]

Oh I want that weapon in the game haha - maybe a new weapon for us - hammer with servo lifters

[mighty belfry]

It doesn't but, it will provide more overkill against the first target to be transferred to the next targets.

So, it's kind of a yes and no.

[thin seal]

yea I c

[unreal stirrup]

tac axe have hard cleave damage distribution cap

so no matter how much cleave you can actually get it stopped at x enemy

bm ignore hitmass for enemy affected + make you deal first target damage to all enemy hit

so effectively more cleave and better cleave damage

[thin seal]

I see, that makes a lot of sense too

[lucid raptor]

why have i slept on heavy sword hive scum so long

kino

[reef spoke]

heavy sword user spotted, doubling crusher spawns

[mighty belfry]

They will die

[reef spoke]

then we must deploy our almighty weapon 😔

[novel oracle]

Thats just for heavy/push attacks btw, and it still staggers even if it deals no damage
The lights however dont have a cleave dmg cap

[unreal stirrup]

kinda relevant when pa h1 is your horde clear combo

[novel oracle]

Which is true
Bm is all you really need and cleave doesnt really do much for you in the end

[flat mist]

#hivescum-class message

[harsh ember]

hey guys if im using the boom bringer is it worth taking pocket toxin as well?

[bronze glade]

Only in havoc really

[mighty belfry]

Oh.

Well alright I guess I was wrong.

[flat mist]

#hivescum-class message

[pure nacelle]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=a1a5bb8c-ef75-4df7-93ce-d81f17479f81

Working on a heavy sword support build with chem team buff 95%-100% uptime, and self-sufficiency

Thoughts and advice are appreciated

[mighty belfry]

Hmm... there are some things I have questions about.

[pure nacelle]

Go ahead.

[mighty belfry]

Actually there's a lot...

This build is

Kinda awkward if I'll be honest.

Like how you have long lasting stimms on a build that quite literally cannot benefit from it at all

Even less so than blessed stimms

And if it's to path to gunslinger, I don't even think that's worth it and you might as well just pick pickpocket so you can support the team's ammo consumption by not even needing ammo

[pure nacelle]

Keep going. I appreciate it. I am reading.

[mighty belfry]

There's also bottom left where there is legit no need to pick Ammo Jack and you're skipping Swift Endurance (and in turn, Hypercrit, which is really good for a build like this)

Swift Endurance is a big attack speed buff for Hsword because it has a high base stamina

It's hard to justify not picking that.

Bottom middle is okay.

Bottom left, skipping Splash Damage on a build trying to maximize toxin potential is a bonkers choice.

Alright. I think it may be worth me mapping out how I would play a build like this (and have actually)

[mighty belfry]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=a1a60b32-a965-4bbd-993e-10012de31e74 I took ur build and hijacked it

Tried to maximize as much toxin propagation as I could into the tree for you

[pure nacelle]

Top to bottom:

Lasting stimms is for clutch. When everyone's down, I get better benefit defaulting to stimms.

In my experience, folks tend to play selfishly. Ammo pickups are first come first serve, so taking gunslinger forces ammo spread.

I'm leaning into the heavy attack on heavy sword. Toxin Mania, bottom far right, increases flat damage of heavy attack. I don't need loads of chem toxins. I only need a few.

Because I'm leveraging heavy attacks, I don't need higher attack speed. I need to hit harder. Since I'm already hitting hard to one spot specials in damnation at base, I don't need hypercrit.

Heavy also already has loads of cleave.

[mighty belfry]

Since you want as many things to die to toxin as possible to get your crates back faster.

[mighty belfry]

Virulent Strain is a much better pick for what you're going for there than Toxin Mania is.

[pure nacelle]

Virulent Strain pulls deamonhosts and folks let the guy who pull die.

Otherwise, I'd agree with you.

[mighty belfry]

...

What?

Why would it do that?

[pure nacelle]

Hold up. Double checking

[mighty belfry]

It's just a damage taken debuff on toxed enemies.

[bronze glade]

virulent strain killed all three of my parents

[pure nacelle]

My bad, I thought you meant splash damage

[mighty belfry]

That being said

I have never seen splash damage do that

[pure nacelle]

You're good. Keep going

[mighty belfry]

The radius is quite pitiful actually.

[pure nacelle]

I have, and folks suck lol

[mighty belfry]

It's good only for the sake of propagating more toxin through mixed hordes.

[manic wolf]

Iirc PC on Psyker doesnt proc on DH, so I doubt Splash' does either

[pure nacelle]

Virulent strain. Pulling up

[mighty belfry]

If that's happening, that daemonhost was very close to something you guys were shooting

It is not splash damage causing that lol

[pure nacelle]

Smite psyke pulls dh from my experience

And flames

[pure nacelle]

Noted

[mighty belfry]

Soulblaze can hit DHs

Oh another thing

[manic wolf]

Soulblaze, yes, but from a Perilous proc? I've never experienced that, and it would be reasonable to assume that Splash uses a significant portion of similar code to Perilous

[pure nacelle]

Virulent strain, yes, I agree I'll adjust for it

[mighty belfry]

Splash only procs on melee kills

So it quite literally can't be happening from afar

[flat mist]

Not even shooting, meleeing, since splash damage is on melee

[pure nacelle]

I'll err on the safe side. I'm a dumb player too. Gotta be careful these days

[mighty belfry]

Well you're in a chat with people who are hyperfixated on this game to an unhealthy level.