strange they don't
#hivescum-class
livid raven
near mauve
Never felt like I wasn't killing anything
bronze glade
i'd be more interested in them if they did
limber cradle
I prefer how they feel to needler
near mauve
Needler has 0 feel lmao
livid raven
also they have some piss stagger for what they are
limber cradle
Nah like my biggest issue with needler is when I pull a gun on a melee build it's normally to kill an elite now
Not to shoot an elite and have it die in about 7 seconds
near mauve
I just used the stubs cause max Payne funny
limber cradle
I use stubs cause uh
bronze glade
they should've given us dual bistols
near mauve
they should've given us dual bistols
Imagine the recoil
The character would physically backflip
limber cradle
I want akimbo plasma pistols
limber cradle
This is what I want out of scum
main trellis
DAP too tbh; use sticky + Run & Gun bless - you can snipe with it
limber cradle
It's still harder than it is with Vraks imo
DAPs at the end of the day are gonna rng in a box
Vraks gets to ads
You can, ik you can, but it's way more consistent with the rifle
As it should be
main trellis
DAPs at the end of the day are gonna rng in a box
Not with sticky & R&G; tap the trigger - thats all you need
bronze glade
they're both good
limber cradle
Absolutely imo
As long as you have a crit weapon I'd run hyper crit and as long as you're on a melee build I'd run hyper violence, personally
crude robin
ight, ive mainly been doing crit
bronze glade
on a melee build i'd take both
on a ranged build, depending on how much melee i'm using, maybe just hyperc
limber cradle
I'm ngl if I was feeling crazy I might do taxe secondary with HyperV on a ranged build
mild bridge
How does Hive Scum play? I would think it's somewhat heavily melee but I've also seen people say it's glass cannon
livid raven
it's not a glass cannon at all, they play either full melee or full ranged
limber cradle
Yeah, they're pretty durable, just not Arb durable
mild bridge
Well for reference I'm coming from Fury of the Faithful Martyrdom Zealot, would the transition be pretty smooth?
livid raven
it's still darktide, so yes
it's not like they play a different game from other melee classes
they just do it better
limber cradle
Zealot is the closest class to scum tbh
limber cradle
Especially if you want to run melee scum
bronze glade
the glass cannon hive scum everyone talks about
limber cradle
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1444017590748975125/1461399148581490863/3...
This isn't hard to achieve either lol
bronze glade
yeah
livid raven
it doesn't even tell the whole story
bronze glade
it's literally just a normal rampage build
mild bridge
it's not like they play a different game from other melee classes
Well yea but Zealot is overall very much about like face tanking/trading blows to keep your temp shield up, middle of a horde kinda thing. Idk if Hive Scum plays more like Kerillian where it's all about dodging
Cause overall I suck at consistently dodging and am much much better w/ the the slash-slash-shove kinda thing
livid raven
you just press space when you hear the sound
every class should do that
there is no facetanking
mild bridge
there is no facetanking
My Zealot would disagree with you
I actively get stronger the more health I'm missing
mild bridge
you just press space when you hear the sound
I just go to block, and hold LMB so get the counter off and obliterate whatever's infront of me with a heavy eviscerator
livid raven
uh what
split fiber
xXXScum_GameingXXx
mild bridge
Martyrdom gives me +10% melee for each missing wound, up to 5 missing wounds, and afaik that sound queue is an incoming attack, so I just block it and hit them with a counter attack which is just holding the attack button after blocking a hit
I will go entire missions with like 20 health and survive everything because I'm just able to outchunk everything
livid raven
there is no counterattack
that's just the pushattack
but yeah, if you are not dodging you are not playing the game right
even with heavy weapons, you have to dodge
split fiber
bind dodge to mousewheel down and win :))))
tranquil fjord
every other option should be secondary to just dodging and positioning yourself well
imo
livid raven
so true
mild bridge
but yeah, if you are not dodging you are not playing the game right
True somewhat but it hasn't failed me yet. Only things I dodge are chargers and dogs
livid raven
funnily enough, the dogs are the only things you shouldn't dodge
mild bridge
I just smack em outta the air when I can but sometimes it's fun to just dodge em and watch em slam their face into a wall
bronze glade
sidestep and decapitate for the aura
muted pivot
I actively get stronger the more health I'm missing
This is not the way to build martyrdom
Safest way is to use a red barrel since it drains your health without touching your toughness
And once you are already low, you really don't want to get hit again lol
mild bridge
Yea but that's like a dweeby way to do it, I'd much rather just gain it naturally through health I lose in combat
muted pivot
Trying to get there via trading can lead to embarrassing overshoot moments
You don't want to trigger Until Death that early
bronze glade
Yea but that's like a dweeby way to do it, I'd much rather just gain it naturall...
dweeby? nah
it's how it's supposed to be done
muted pivot
Yea but that's like a dweeby way to do it, I'd much rather just gain it naturall...
Not dodging is the dweeb move
bronze glade
otherwise you're just losing out on the martyrdom buffs for most of the game
muted pivot
Plus Zealot gets some of the best bonuses of anybody for dodging successfully
Second Wind, Duelist
To start with
livid raven
if you are naturally losing health (you shouldn't), most of the time the martyrdom is a dead talent
bronze glade
yeah this is why you torch yourself at the start of the game
otherwise martyrdom never kicks in 
livid raven
yeah, at that point i would just go with the left capstone
bronze glade
attack speed buff funni tho
livid raven
i forget zealot has three capstones
bronze glade
well right's the boring meta option
naive imp
how well do hyper crit and hyper violence work out together? swear i saw people talk about how its anti synergistic, but i find it hard to notice in-game
mild bridge
Not dodging is the dweeb move
Alternatively I actively benefit from just staying in the front line and if I'm not getting hit it doesn't really make that much of a difference
muted pivot
how well do hyper crit and hyper violence work out together? swear i saw people ...
Generally worth taking both, they do different things
If you're on a hyperviolence roll, then Hypercrit won't be triggering
So it won't get in your way
muted pivot
Alternatively I actively benefit from just staying in the front line and if I'm ...
You're getting hit if you're not dodging lol
livid raven
yeah i don't see that working outside of heresy
there is just too much shit
and ragers eat you alive
muted pivot
I mean ragers are better blocked usually imo
livid raven
yeah but you have to dodge out of there eventually
livid raven
you can dodge and block
naive imp
i try not to back dodge against ragers typically
livid raven
only their initial lunge catches you
mild bridge
You're getting hit if you're not dodging lol
Blocking is very much effective
livid raven
their other moves are mostly stationary
muted pivot
They're very blockable though
muted pivot
Blocking is very much effective
Tell the crushers, maulers and gunners that
livid raven
if you hold 4 ragers with only block, they eat through your stamina
muted pivot
Snipers etc
naive imp
getting stunned in the middle of pushing (because it starts with blocking) really sucks
of course, just don't get hit, but it sucks
limber cradle
I'd be surprised if you can hold 4 ragers past the initial swings, let alone the second set
livid raven
yeah i usually block and dodge back on their first lunge
or just dodge to the side
you can afford it with hivescum
muted pivot
I mean Scum dodges are ridiculous
On Zealot I just try to shoot them before they close distance tbh lol
Throwing knife in the face or zarona revolver or something
They ain't worth the dance
mild bridge
if you hold 4 ragers with only block, they eat through your stamina
Eviscerator one taps em and with two charges of Fury of the Faithful you can very well use a charge in that circumstance without much issue
livid raven
eviscerator definitely doesn't onetap them
muted pivot
Can do but with a biting hit
naive imp
what about with bloodthirsty
muted pivot
You aren't gonna do it with the wafty sweeps iirc
livid raven
you also probably eat shit from the other 5 ragers in your ass
mild bridge
Tell the crushers, maulers and gunners that
Crushers I'm assuming are the ogryns with the big maces, which my Eviscerator two taps excluding additional friendly damage and mixed aggro, and for gunners there are plenty of Ranged Damage debuffs available for Zealot that help quite a bit in mitigating their damage while you run to them
livid raven
are eviscerator's special memeworthy as the chainblade's
mild bridge
eviscerator definitely doesn't onetap them
Eviscerator most definitely one taps ragers
muted pivot
Might be that they don't come in large enough numbers for you at your difficulty
naive imp
i believe once you get bloodthirsty to trigger you can onetap crushers
with the special
mild bridge
Yea the Eviscerator Special is insane, it melts bosses especially when combined with the Melee buffs you get
mild bridge
1500 damage raw, no buffs, is insane
muted pivot
There's the rip trick
naive imp
oh right, where you charge after the first tick of damage from evisc?
muted pivot
It makes sure it applies to the end tick which is the strongest part
Not sure how Evis compares with chain axe on thst
But it's like a mini thunderhammer if you do it righy
naive imp
once you get bloodthirsty to proc you can almost oneshot a crusher with the rev, but that's without my martyrdom stacks or any other bonuses
once martyrdom is up, one push attack (no rev) kills a rager
man its been a while since i've used evisc
muted pivot
I have gotta try martyrdom evis
Was going blazing Piety which in hindsight is kinda pointless
naive imp
i do good work with it, i'm sure someone with good fundamentals would tear ass
mighty belfry
Was going blazing Piety which in hindsight is kinda pointless
It's not at all
It's a synergy for Perfect Strike which is by far one of Evi's best blessings
muted pivot
Ok, pointless with my blessings then lol
livid raven
people run the mk15 right?
livid raven
they should stop
naive imp
i prefer mk15, it's the braindead one
livid raven
ok how do people play with this slow piece of shit again
zenith fern
Play what?
livid raven
eviscerator
it feels like i'm doing what i am doing with hivescum, but incredibly slower
tranquil fjord
mk3 benefits more from perfect strike imo
mighty belfry
ok how do people play with this slow piece of shit again
Unfaltering helps a lot.
livid raven
is that the interruptible talent
mighty belfry
Yeah.
livid raven
yeah i had it, but man
never touching zealot again
also they have the same push attack right?
because it's a single target stab, i don't see how you use this while you block an horde
spare elk
eviscerator
Martyrdom build makes it not as painful to swing
mighty belfry
And PS lol
livid raven
Martyrdom build makes it not as painful to swing
i did have it
and it's true, it does make the swings much more tolerable
after playing the last 100 hours only hivescum, i suppose i'm just used to being fast
and have a good grenade
and a sidearm that is good against everything
spare elk
after playing the last 100 hours only hivescum, i suppose i'm just used to being...
Hive scum is probably the strongest class as of now imo
livid raven
yeah for real
zenith fern
Hive scum is probably the strongest class as of now imo
Close second
Psyker still is top one
fervent compass
definitely psyker
spare elk
Psyker still is top one
Dps yes but hive scum trivialize the game with how untouchable he is if played right
karmic lake
is uncanny strike still one of the best blessings for the shivs?
bronze glade
no
karmic lake
alr then whats the best blessings for the shivs?
karmic lake
riposte
fervent compass
you said strongest not most survivable
zenith fern
Dps yes but hive scum trivialize the game with how untouchable he is if played r...
So can psyker too
Scum still has the better dodges but any class can be untouchable by skill
Psyker force pushes are funny
bronze glade
psyker and hood psyker are busted
zenith fern
What's hood psyker now?
spare elk
Scum still has the better dodges but any class can be untouchable by skill
Yeah some classes arr just easier to survive on but anyone with enough skill can be untouchable
bronze glade
instead of infinite warp ammo, you have infinite pickpocketing bullets
spare elk
Its just that some classes are more forgiving when u make a mistake
fervent compass
kinda biased anyway it just depends on what playstyle fits you best
i can do 0 hit/1m dmg runs easy with psyker and get destroyed on scum
spare elk
i can do 0 hit/1m dmg runs easy with psyker and get destroyed on scum
No matter the playstyle or class, the basic fundamentals of dodging and such still apply
zenith fern
True, the game is gonna throw more bullshit when you least expect
Or game just breaks
fervent compass
lol fundamentally better at psyker than scum
livid raven
i still remember the droves of hivescum players dying in heresy
zenith fern
Same lmao
Is funny because Arbites was strong asf, people complained but still were having fun
Because it was an easy character to play
livid raven
did they complain
zenith fern
But as soon they realise they need to put skills into scum, the whinge started
livid raven
i mean, i remember the testers saying arbites was mid
zenith fern
did they complain
Not as frequent
livid raven
(lmao)
zenith fern
It was the time only Ogryn was the one that got reworked
livid raven
yeah, i remember
zenith fern
And he stood at top one
livid raven
arbites so good it made fatshark bring the rest of the classes up to the same level
zenith fern
Seeing all rejects get reworked was unexpected
Because we have begging zealot the most first
spare elk
arbites so good it made fatshark bring the rest of the classes up to the same le...
In return fs buffed the enemies and more bs
zenith fern
In return fs buffed the enemies and more bs
Honestly this was neat to trade with classes buffs
spare elk
Honestly this was neat to trade with classes buffs
I remember the bulwark phalanx when fall back 20 meters behind on havoc
livid raven
i just hope the new shield enemies aren't as ballbreaking as the bulwarks
oh also
dealing with more than 1 bulwark with the eviscerator
never again
bronze glade
bulwarks are just the anti-fun enemy
fervent compass
i like tipping them over with trauma staff and poking the soft spot on their head with a deimos
mighty belfry
dealing with more than 1 bulwark with the eviscerator
What blessings did you have?
mighty belfry
i think rampage and perfect strike
I'd strongly recommend shred tbh
You want perfect strike proccing as much as you can and you're already sauced af from martyrdom
livid raven
If i ever touch zealot again, sure
mighty belfry
Oh come on zealot ain't so bad!
tidal fiber
mighty belfry
Zealot is the humble class
twilit canyon
thoughts on this section of the bottom right? which are good or not
mighty belfry
thoughts on this section of the bottom right? which are good or not
The two right nodes are situational
You only want those on a really toxin heavy build
livid raven
imo, only pocket toxin with blackout and extra pouches with the other two nades are good there
brittle sierra
remove ranged immunity on desperado
brittle sierra
holy fuck
People are soo naive when they say: "God created us in his image" when seals exist
zenith fern
brittle sierra
https://fxtwitter.com/deadlierthnever/status/2056987098222359037?s=20
I agree 100%
unkempt salmon
I'm still very happy with how Normal Woman looks
Gonna be trying to put together a Normal Woman build using Crowbar and Revolver
gray fable
"normal woman"
bronze crown
"normal woman"
Nothing about being Hive Scum is "normal" govnah. 
rough peak
People are soo naive when they say: "God created us in his image" when seals exi...
gottem
idle wave
Running three 3 stam curious and +2 stam on a weapon is a lot of fun with swift endurance talent, lol
shy bluff
I swear, this event throws more shit at you than Havoc
main dock
I havent played in a few years whats the idea with Hive Scum generally
idle wave
I havent played in a few years whats the idea with Hive Scum generally
Do lots of damage while being very fast and having a lot of effective dodges (also being able to have infinite ammo with pickpocket)
Glass cannon that has a tool for every situation
low harbor
I havent played in a few years whats the idea with Hive Scum generally
U do drugs and ur fast and u do a lot of damage (psyker level)
Really op class
main dock
Do lots of damage while being very fast and having a lot of effective dodges (al...
what would you recommend for their guns?
idle wave
what would you recommend for their guns?
You can't go wrong with the needle pistol. Will kill everything and anything. THe mk2 has the alt fire that can spread tox for horde clear if you really want
Otherwise everything is just about fine! Really depends on what you like using, just take pickpocket for that ammo :D
main dock
boutta just run it with dual pistols and crowbar, never used either of these but we'll send it
only level11
bronze glade
boutta just run it with dual pistols and crowbar, never used either of these but...
Don’t expect too much out of the crowbar
One of the weakest hiv melees
main dock
Don’t expect too much out of the crowbar <:KEKW_ogryn:1022077188322906163>
Noticing it
man the crowbar is rough
main dock
so what do people run for hive scum then
main dock
rashad?
livid raven
combat axe
idle wave
so what do people run for hive scum then
shivs are always good, but I have a lot of fun with the tactical axe mk7
and yeah, you can kinda make anything work at the end of the day, but some will be easier to use than others
spare elk
so what do people run for hive scum then
shivs a great weapon overall
zinc dirge
Guys on which difficulty lieutenants start to appear, pretty. Sure I haven't come across one on damnation ...they are havoc specific only?
bronze glade
trying that
it's breakpoint dependant, but easily hivs strongest melee
it's kinda disgusting
unreal stirrup
so called breakpoint after 1 hv stack
livid raven
Guys on which difficulty lieutenants start to appear, pretty. Sure I haven't com...
havoc as minibosses only
and mortis trials
they are just karnak twins reskins and weaker
main dock
what does spinning the dual pistols do besides make the aim better
verbal dew
looks cool
bronze glade
i think it increases crit chance too
verbal dew
the damage tables are the same at least
or no this graph was for just ADS, nvm
For the Weapon Special, after giving them a spin, the Hive Scum focuses to make the next shot count, making it more accurate and deadlier.
deadlier assumes some other buff ig
livid raven
Better finesse yes
neon harbor
what does spinning the dual pistols do besides make the aim better
The special grants a bit of extra aim assist, reduced spread, bonus cleave on crit, bonus crit mod, slightly higher damage, significantly higher stagger, and much higher finesse.
worldly girder
can i get some tree advice? Just in a "this isn't that stupid yes?" kind of deal. Shivs and needles (tho i might bring stubs for fun)
wait, swap +1 blitz for chem on crit. I forgot this was on blinders
livid raven
why are you taking both long lasting and blessed stims
verbal dew
I'd pick tertium welcome over long lasting
livid raven
people run tacaxe with chemdep right?
verbal dew
I would ye
muted pivot
people run tacaxe with chemdep right?
I do
It's a crit dependent weapon for elites
And doesn't really need attack speed help
dense hollow
yea id do dependancy for tacaxe
worldly girder
why are you taking both long lasting and blessed stims
uber late reply but blessed stimms is only bc of the crit coherence. What's a better use of my point over 5s of stimm uptime? Apart from maybe tertium welcome.
like, say is tertium welcome better than sweet spot and/or virulent strain? I assume virulent strain has value given shiv crit% (under coated weaponry) and more value if you're using a needle gun?
muted pivot
I'd consider cleave nodes? Or are they bad
worldly girder
Not sure. I'd even consider quick and deadly if melee is counted in Close Range Damage but i'm not sure about that either
muted pivot
Tbh I take them for any melee that doesn't have bromentum
Never felt what it's like to not have them
It's really hard to enumerate stuff like cleave intuitively
worldly girder
alternatively i can go for sweet spot and channeled devastation instead, taking out heavy rending rampage subnode
worldly girder
alternatively i can go for sweet spot and channeled devastation instead, taking ...
whiteroom testing (psy on auric) it seems like this might be better
floral wedge
> For the Weapon Special, after giving them a spin, the Hive Scum focuses to mak...
IS THAT WHAT THE SPIN DOES???
I thought it was just swag points
gray fable
I thought it was just swag points
you literally can see the crosshair go more accurate...
floral wedge
you literally can see the crosshair go more accurate...
I'm playing hive scum, do you think I pay attention to cross hairs?
worldly pecan
Thinking about getting the Hive Scum, it worth it?
gray fable
Thinking about getting the Hive Scum, it worth it?
lawnmower of a class
crimson moss
Thinking about getting the Hive Scum, it worth it?
do you like speeding around like you're on crack and magdumping while also having 24/7 access to stims that buff various aspects of your fighting ability of your choice?
trim wind
gray fable
playing so much desperado with pick pocket lately on auric, the game is just too easy
bronze glade
they need to bring back the 20 crusher trains
and have the crusher trains always spawn with trappers and bursters if there are hiv/psykers on the team
otherwise it's just too easy
limber cradle
It feels unethical to play scum in auric
neon harbor
IS THAT WHAT THE SPIN DOES???
A few messages below that you can see more specific changes. It changes a lot.
bronze glade
It feels unethical to play scum in auric
True but I get two to three psykers a game so I don’t feel so bad
limber cradle
True but I get two to three psykers a game so I don’t feel so bad
Tbf
It feels unethical to play scum, psyker, or arb
In auric imo
bronze glade
Arb is fine imo
gray fable
yeah arb is fine
bronze glade
It’s easy but not oppressive
limber cradle
It's not that you kill everything, it's that nothing can kill you
gray fable
Unless they’re one of the fuckers spamming shotgun
ah yeah thats me with castigator stance killiong everything
🙂
limber cradle
Tbh rumblergryn probably also unethical but I never see ogs anymore
gray fable
and then we have havoc where you just cant play like auric
bronze glade
Tbh rumblergryn probably also unethical but I never see ogs anymore
Thank god
Rumblergryns were worse than smykers
limber cradle
Rumblergryns were worse than smykers
Yeah, I think I agree
Like stereotypical worst vs worst
mental igloo
lazy smite use drops off a cliff in havoc, rumbler still op bc lmao we got glugger buffs
limber cradle
Tbh it's moreso the fact I can walk away from a smyker
If a rumblergryn chooses to nade everything from range I can't, normally
Or if I can its way further away lol
neon harbor
It feels unethical to play scum, psyker, or arb
If you're good at the game and have a particularly specialized build all the classes feel gross in plain auric. Whoever gets the enemy kills becomes a game of who's bullets or swings land first.
limber cradle
That's fair lol
trim wind
I've never frustrated exhil in that way before
neon harbor
Just kinda an issue developed with a ton of powercreep over time and so many build possibilities leading to discovering busted stuff. The ranged crowd builds in this category are the worst to play with since it feels like you don't even get the drippings of enemy spawns sometimes.
neon harbor
I've never frustrated exhil in that way before
Yeah historically I've never at all been frustrated by an individual turning the game off no sir 
bronze glade
If you're good at the game and have a particularly specialized build all the cla...
bullets and psyker farts tend to move faster than swings
neon harbor
bullets and psyker farts tend to move faster than swings <:KEKW_ogryn:1022077188...
mhm, these days even Zealot has some bullshit they can do at range.
tbf with Zealot it's more like they used to have some uberbullshit they could do at range, lost that for a bit, then gained slightly less crazy cousin of that again.
copper crag
new trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0hD3KBwoiA
bronze glade
mhm, these days even Zealot has some bullshit they can do at range.
haven't played zealot in a while, what can they do now?
neon harbor
haven't played zealot in a while, what can they do now?
Current ranged bullshit is shroudfield throwing knives with buff smuggling. Can either run a crit setup (scattershot + blazing piety is good) or shroudfield (knives don't break stealth + it buffs knives), then use buff smuggling to put like man-stopper or hand cannon onto the throwing knives. Lets you spam high damage knives with the option of basically ignoring armor or having unlimited cleave. Good burst output too.
I haven't experimented with it personally but I've seen it be used to nuke bosses. It nuking elite crowds is pretty typical though.
It's not even a particularly setup-reliant build so you can still build into melee too.
spare remnant
🤔
bronze glade
lol not sure that's enough to convince me to return to zealot, but it does sound funny
livid raven
Lol
Don't the knives have barely enough cleave to go through a single poxwalker
On a weakspot hit
spare remnant
ahh
soft abyss
what are good curio stats?
fast surge
Generally toughness, gunner damage reduction, revive speed, HP, stam regen
neon harbor
The special grants a bit of extra aim assist, reduced spread, bonus cleave on cr...
When the special attack is used, the hitscan and damage template it swapped to the special variant. Additionally the spread template is reduced overall. The special variant hitscan template uses 0.1 for the raycast radius vs. the 0.055 for base. Here are the changes for the damage template:
- On-crit cleave goes from 3-5 to 5-7. Normal cleave remains the same (0.05).
- Crit mod (Flat ADM increase on crit) goes from 0-0.25 for all but carapace and void shield to 0-0.3 for all but carapace and void shield.
- Damage goes from 225-345 to 255-355.
- Impact goes from 3-6 to 25-35.
- BCM_Finesse (Sets the max damage increase for finesse hits) 1.5 to 2.5.
- Crit boost (Setting for hitting a non-weakspot critical hit) 0.3 to 0.385.
TL:DR
Dual stub pistols get a huge bump to finesse damage on special, with crits getting a few extra goodies. Also aim assist and stagger 
.
livid raven
Yeah i don't think the special is that good
10 years for a shot that is barely better
And you have to time it too
neon harbor
I'd like more of a damage bump on them
For weakspots it's like a ~40-50% damage increase and for crits about a 50-60% increase.
With the weapon in mind it's pretty good for breakpoints at the very least.
bronze glade
When the special attack is used, the hitscan and damage template it swapped to t...
<@&735928989146939404> can we please pin this? comes up often enough as a question
turbid sapphire
When the special attack is used, the hitscan and damage template it swapped to t...
bronze glade
is anyone else getting super fucked hitreg for ranged weps?
gray fable
no
bronze glade
lucky me ig...
floral wedge
Is it just me or is the bone saw just not doing anything
the whole point of it is to spread chem toxin stacks with the perk that spreads right?
It just feels really underwhelming compared to shivs
Plus the thing just feels generally awkward
livid raven
turns out it is in fact the worst weapon in the arsenal
bronze glade
Is it just me or is the bone saw just not doing anything
the secret is to light spam and run 9 stam
not even joking
that's what it takes to make the weapon viable
limber cradle
Do you +2 stam it too atp
bronze glade
i don't
prob not worth it
25% bonus damage for an armor type vs. 4% extra attack speed
on mk3 shivs i do take 2 stam
storm finch
Explain chem toxin to me
So I have a bone saw that makes enemies yellow or purple
I have grenade that is basically zealot's fire grenade
And I have a needler that uhhh
bronze glade
so cool, thanks game
storm finch
Makes enemies pop like in that one dobson comic
bronze glade
Explain chem toxin to me
not much to explain, it's just a DOT with no real weaknesses
storm finch
not much to explain, it's just a DOT with no real weaknesses
Is purple bone saw juice the same thing but for heavies?
bronze glade
Is purple bone saw juice the same thing but for heavies?
purple is brittleness
different effect from tox
only useful for crushers
gray fable
One is DoT, the other is AoE DoT?
psykanium... check how they work there...
storm finch
psykanium... check how they work there...
There are talents that improve chem toxin, do they work for both variants?
neon harbor
Is purple bone saw juice the same thing but for heavies?
The weapon does different damage while purple and inflicts brittleness instead of toxin. Gist is that purple does more damage to flak and carapace and green does more to everything fleshy. Chem as a debuff though is pretty potent and can make up for the difference.
mighty belfry
@flat mist i have one upped myself
there is no reason I should have lived through this and I was not punished for my hubris somehow
low harbor
there is no reason I should have lived through this and I was not punished for m...
prob cuz of og taunt
and slot system
neon harbor
It just feels *really* underwhelming compared to shivs
Bonesaw has awful cleave. Some of the stabs on shivs have more cleave than the sweeps on saw. Plus if you hit weakspots or just run crits shivs are basically spec'd into rewarding that. Outside of the debuffs & usecase differences with the blessings, main thing with the saw is the smiter heavy since it does pretty respectable damage compared to the rest of the weapon.
mighty belfry
Nuncio there too actually.
as I have gotten better with this thing, I realize I'm growing fond of Chained Deathblow a lot more now
neon harbor
Bonesaw has awful cleave. Some of the stabs on shivs have more cleave than the s...
That said it potentially can be pretty good but it just needs setup that restricts the buildcrafting available with it.
zenith pagoda
so cool, thanks game
Yeah I've had this so many times 
flat mist
can i get some tree advice? Just in a "this isn't that stupid yes?" kind of deal...
The most aggregious mistake in this build is not taking splash damage
worldly girder
The two chem stacks per elite melee kill?
worldly girder
I've been running this last night but not in havoc. What do you think i could drop for it
flat mist
@worldly girder also these are the numbers for long lasting stims
gentle hearth
scummers, what is the dump stat for crowbar?
worldly girder
mighty belfry
scummers, what is the dump stat for crowbar?
Defenses tbh
worldly girder
<@152453901029736448> also these are the numbers for long lasting stims
Oh nice
mighty belfry
Arguably, you can just dump the crowbar entirely 
gentle hearth
yeah i just want to have a min maxxeed one in my inv
mighty belfry
Fair enough.
gentle hearth
so is it def or mobility
mighty belfry
Honestly given you've already went down bottom right as much, I'd argue taking off A Sweet Spot and uh, the damage boost on crit chance for Splash Damage and Virulent Strain
mighty belfry
so is it def or mobility
Defenses.
flat mist
I've been running this last night but not in havoc. What do you think i could dr...
This is the optimal shiv h40 build
mighty belfry
Pretty much.
worldly girder
Oh i see thanks. I guess it really was a skill issue
worldly girder
The special action?
mighty belfry
whats the purple for needle pistol and sawthing
Purple mode does a special brittleness that can stack with other sources.
The specials on needle pistols, well
gentle hearth
ahhhh i see
mighty belfry
mighty belfry
Pretty sure it's the same values regardless of rating.
worldly girder
Is jittery actually not that big a deal?
Isn't 40% dodge recharge huge
shrewd marlin
just stop spamming dodge for less than a second. i find it nice but not essential
worldly girder
Noted, thanks!
mighty belfry
Is jittery actually not that big a deal?
Isn't 40% dodge recharge huge
It's strong but not necessary.
I'd say it has value on Adrenaline builds tbh
shrewd marlin
why specifically on adrenaline?
fast prawn
mighty belfry
why specifically on adrenaline?
Because Adrenaline gives you a boost equivalent to a stimm oriented to combat already so you can run something like CDR which you don't need Sample Collector for
Jittery is good. But there's a lot of other talents that are also good and the value of some talents depend on the build.
shrewd marlin
im trying this out rn, should i tweak stuff? i feel like chem dep just makes me tankier
w/ shivs
astral canyon
im trying this out rn, should i tweak stuff? i feel like chem dep just makes me ...
Get adrenaline smiter
last seal
Guys what’s the fastest way to level up a character?
woeful hill
dying to hard mode twins using the bell skip or die at mid event of a few certain auric maelstroms
if you want to level normally, play the highest difficulty you can win
reef spoke
iirc campaign mode missions give more xp too
specifically Rolling Steel which is guaranteed 11 minute mission for full rewards
which is comicial levels of xp and dockets IF you can get a team to willing run Rolling Steel lmao
neon harbor
Because Adrenaline gives you a boost equivalent to a stimm oriented to combat al...
CDR cartel special without sample collector is pretty iffy in output.
mighty belfry
CDR cartel special without sample collector is pretty iffy in output.
It is. But I feel you already have a pretty big increase to your stats as is so it's not as necessary to always have it available.
And for virtually infinite dodges, I think that's a pretty decent trade off.
I don't use jittery but I acknowledge it's a pretty useful boon to have.
neon harbor
And for virtually infinite dodges, I think that's a pretty decent trade off.
It's an unnecessary tradeoff. Can just use your stimm to turn Adrenaline into a second Rampage ult for 15/20s that stacks. Or run sample collector so the CDR nodes have good value.
mighty belfry
Maybe I'm just thinking from a standpoint of actually being able to sustain rampage for a long time consistently enough to not worry about that lmao
Times I've done it, it's never really been an issue but I can't speak for everyone either I guess.
frigid basalt
so does crackhead have something similar to ogrynomicon yet?
bronze glade
all too busy smoking crack to write guides
low harbor
so does crackhead have something similar to ogrynomicon yet?
No but I will prob include it in mine eventually
But that’ll be a long while
Cuz I’m expecting some well deserved nerfs to hive scum and psyker