hivescum-class

[silent abyss]

Pointless stands still

[zealous ravine]

https://tenor.com/ujxEnRMFJQy.gif

[flat mist]

it doesn't remotely fit

fun times though

[final temple]

took me a bit, this is a cawdor chain glaive with built-in gun

[zealous ravine]

yee its awesome

cawdor gets so much cool stuff

hive melees coulda defo been chosen better imo

[silent abyss]

That number in dictionary shows number x meaning. So there are more to it but hey not everybody reads

[final temple]

I like the basic set we have now. there is always a chance of getting new stuff.

[flat mist]

yeah we dont all jump on google to make our arguments

[silent abyss]

A pointless argument is a debate that's unproductive, lacks real purpose, wastes time

[flat mist]

that definition doesn't fit

[final temple]

not that this was a debate to begin with.

[silent abyss]

It does it did as you and I wasting time and it was also a google ai response like the one I gave before

[zealous ravine]

so anyone wanna talk about cawdor

[flat mist]

ah see, but i was mocking you

and it wasnt ai

[main wagon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1205990709228994560/1427831210587193385/heist.gif

[zealous ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/birthday-surprised-staring-birthday-cat-random-clips-gif-14002286

[silent abyss]

Well to mock you need to understand and undermine the value of what I said. Which you clearly didnt as there was literally nothing of value in what I have copy pasted

[flat mist]

what in the balkans

[main wagon]

https://tenor.com/view/merv-merv-the-cat-cats-of-tiktok-no-ohio-cat-meme-gif-6883357270415141116

[zealous ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/jerma-louis-bag-milk-bag-milk-in-bag-gif-19600202

[final temple]

I think, given that we already have heavily borrowed cosmetics from necromunda, getting some scummy zealotry going wouldn’t be too out of the norm

[main wagon]

https://tenor.com/view/jerma-gif-22821132

[zealous ravine]

yeah im hoping we get some real wicked drip

[main wagon]

At least Hive Scum has a chance to get a second page of drip

[final temple]

I also wouldn’t mind some kind of hand flamer

[main wagon]

Rip Arbites players

[zealous ravine]

hand flamer feels more z ealot to me

could share it i guess

[main wagon]

Wait wait

Flame gauntlet with knives on it

[final temple]

Arbites does have more drip that could be implemented.

[main wagon]

Special attack turns into a Fallout power fist for one strike

Basically Hive Scum mini thammer

But with fuego~

[zealous ravine]

im happy with any fist weapon

[main wagon]

Shivs are so close

Their animations are great

[zealous ravine]

except maybe a chainfist since idk if those really do punching or if they just function like a chainsword but on the arm lmao

i still want the fist to punch

[final temple]

gib Vet Powerfist. I fucking dare you FS!

[main wagon]

Every light attack that hitstops as if I’m just digging it into a heretic’s shoulder blade as I slide past is so good

The overhead heavy is just hilarious

https://tenor.com/view/mad-max-fury-road-gif-13107073

[final temple]

Another easy transplant would be flail

[main wagon]

Tbh vet deserves a power sword rework, power falchion needs an actual niche, and then give them a two handed chainaxe because fuck it here’s a treat

I also just realized

If HS got some kind of power fist before Ogryn got knuckles they’d rightfully riot

We need the “throw hands” update to include fist based weapons for everyone lmao

Except Arbites

[zealous ravine]

god i want fist weps so bad

[pallid quail]

them getting 4 rockets that are stronger than a nuke shouldve been enough to incite a full blown mutiny lol

[bronze glade]

gauntlet

[vapid jungle]

I feel like if they were gonna do a power sword rework it would have coincided with power falchion release. Youre gonna take your repetitive activation weapon and enjoy it.

[bronze glade]

i honestly would prefer that they leave psword alone

because touching psword = nerf at this point lol

[vapid jungle]

Pmuch

[pallid quail]

tbh yea kinda like with paul

[bronze glade]

no fucking way they give it a relic blade heat mechanic and keep the current damage

[main wagon]

Veteran bladed wraps
Zealot spiked gauntlets because duh
Ogryn knuckles
Psyker magic palm strikes
Hive Scum homemade power fist

[zealous ravine]

i'd personally just ignore psword by this point

i mean pfalchion is right there

[bronze glade]

psword is insane tho

[zealous ravine]

yeah but its psword

[bronze glade]

i don't hate it tbh

[pallid quail]

piss sword piss toughness

[main wagon]

The gameplay for psword is so bad that I literally converted to the church of Mk1 shovel

[vapid jungle]

Why do you have this handy 🤣

[final temple]

It is a gift.

[zealous ravine]

psword is only beaten by the ogryn shield in the "weapon i wanna use the least" competition

[main wagon]

I have the old Evi zealot meme on my home PC

QQ M1 QQ M1
“somebody fucking help me”

[calm aurora]

the og tanner

[final temple]

hah

I snorted.

[vapid jungle]

We don't say that name here

[main wagon]

Ogryn shield literally hurts my hands more than laspistol

[zealous ravine]

it hurts hands?

im too lazy to do any qq cancel on that wep since looping the exact same attack would make it even worse

[main wagon]

Holding the mouse buttons down for so long causes me some nerve pain

[zealous ravine]

ohh

[calm aurora]

EOL confirmed

[main wagon]

Rapid clicking is mostly fine

[zealous ravine]

that unironically doesnt work on my m ouse LOL

[main wagon]

Wym

Holding M1 is how you do heavies

[zealous ravine]

i mean the uh

[main wagon]

Ogryn shield is exclusively heavies and the odd PA overhead for funsies

[zealous ravine]

the special it has is goofed

for my mouse

[main wagon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/145249171954204672/1409587795789353020/image0.gif

Sorry I need calories

[zealous ravine]

guh...... the thing where u hold the shield down

[final temple]

I absolutely resist using shield on oggy. Pickaxe is love. Pickaxe is life.

[zealous ravine]

i think i conchfused it a bit

[zealous ravine]

branx pick is fun

[main wagon]

Pickaxe at least gets to alternate with Branx or use a full moveset for the others

[final temple]

I love all the marks.

[main wagon]

Heavy light heavy light is okay on my hands

I love Arby shield mk6

[final temple]

big guy. big stick. big happy.

[main wagon]

I always get Karsolas and Borovian mixed up

Karsolas is the fast one with the uppercut I think?

Branx made me feel like an absolute demon before the HP reworks. Good times

[zealous ravine]

ogryn... fist weapon...

i believe... 2026... ogryn brass knuckles

[tropic crag]

oggy will finally get a fist weapon, but it will be just 2 dudes arms that you slap people with

[zealous ravine]

sold

[main wagon]

Bought the premium shop skin already

TF2 zombie arm be like

[zealous ravine]

everyone buys the skin and fatshark retires

too awesome

[main wagon]

“Without question because it’s Monster Hunter Darktide”

[ancient basin]

bunch of stapled together crushers as a bulwark shield

[final temple]

literally give us the crusher hammer

[zealous ravine]

we're mor likely to get that datamined hammer

if we're lucky it'll happen before the 9th class drops

[bronze glade]

so we'll get it after psyker gets its 12th talent tree

[zealous ravine]

votann class

(they got a bit lost)

[main wagon]

Sorry what was that? 30% DR added to Scrier’s Gaze

[bronze glade]

all is right in the world

[zealous ravine]

20 more buffs to crushers

they can now do a jump attack

[main wagon]

I’d shit myself if I saw them do a lil hop

Them climbing is so funny

[zealous ravine]

wait they can jump cant they

to climb stuff

[main wagon]

Yeah

[zealous ravine]

oh god

[dim moth]

unironically it would be kind of cool if they had their own talent tree for their blitz that lets them choose their warp powers and psyker discipline

[main wagon]

They can do straight pull-ups in that armor

With the hammer

[zealous ravine]

with psykers track record im ok with them not getting stuff

[exotic temple]

Me I want everything cawdor

[dim moth]

that's crackpot shit tho and they do NOT deserve it

[zealous ravine]

cawdor mentioned

[ancient basin]

crusher pounce leap, just jumps 5+ feet in the air to power bomb you

[main wagon]

https://tenor.com/view/worried-scared-oh-no-stop-it-fearful-gif-12534009

The level 7 someone dragged into CIVI

[zealous ravine]

god difficulties adding new attacks to enemies would be hilarious

[dim moth]

tox bomber throws TWO grenades

[ancient basin]

specialized training modifier, adds all new attacks to all units

[zealous ravine]

help!! hELPPP!

[ancient basin]

tox bomber gets even more range and nade bounces

so he can trick shot from the end of the map

[exotic temple]

Give shooters a grenade they can throw if you get too
Close

[main wagon]

Saw a video talking about how adding more complex build diversity than something like the original feats just completely paralyzes the average player

[dim moth]

yeah

[main wagon]

After seeing a few people fill out the ENTIRE top tree and not see a problem being keystoneless at level 30 I’m inclined to believe simpler is better BUT

I would totally be down

If they labeled Psyker an “advanced” class

And gave it that unique building

[zealous ravine]

scriers gaze gets an entire tree de dicated to it

vet deleted

[exotic temple]

I’ll be honest I kind of like the vt2 talent system

[main wagon]

So if you don’t want to track the sun and moon cycles to figure out the most efficient warp magic you can either download a build or play something literally anything else

[dim moth]

I much prefer Darktides

[zealous ravine]

me playing lunacid and unironically needing to track the moon cycle for some secrets

[dim moth]

I looooooooove a lot of little choices that feed into one cohesive build

[exotic temple]

Like the trees feel like you just have to manually take all these tax nodes.

That end up being the same nodes taken most of the time

[tropic crag]

i've almost bought that game like 5 times

[main wagon]

Darktide leaves me feeling a lot more proud of “my creation”

[zealous ravine]

its peak

[main wagon]

Although it still has the problem feats did to a degree of people just gravitating towards the same good talents

[zealous ravine]

i got every achiev in it

[tropic crag]

it does feel better than vt2s system by alot

[main wagon]

So in essence “your build” is just a slight variant of whatever everyone else is mostly picking, for some classes more than others lol

[zealous ravine]

in vt2 i usually locked into a specific build very q uickly

:(

[main wagon]

I don’t get some folks being widely defensive like they were the first person to use zealot’s The Build™

[exotic temple]

If they would make every node good or situationally good it would be different but it kinda seems same same but with extra steps

[tropic crag]

no matter what you do that will happen, they've done a good job of at least putting in options and build paths

[main wagon]

I told a buddy “I’ve literally forgotten to set talents before and carried. It comes down to you more than the numbers, the numbers just help”

[dim moth]

I saw someone using almost the exact same veteran build as me for the first time a couple days ago

[tropic crag]

like even if you make every other node better people will compare them and some nodes will always be better unless you remove any interesting effects and kept it super boring

[dim moth]

I happened to be playing laspistol exe with power falchion

and some random level 47 was using almost 1:1 same build as me

fucker almost outdamaged me too

[main wagon]

Fucking gamer

That’s hilarious and awesome

[zealous ravine]

gamer straight from gamertown

[main wagon]

I love getting mirror teammates

[tropic crag]

whenever i see someone running the same weapon i type "----- brothers" with whatever weapon it is

[main wagon]

3 of us were using eviscerators

We join some vet in his lobby screen

“what the fuck”

Mission starts

That man probably heard nothing but chainsaw revving sounds for 20 minutes straight

[final temple]

‘The Sound of RIGHTEOUS RETRIBUTION!’

[oblique mist]

What do you recommand ?

[main wagon]

HARK YE AND PRAISE KINDRED

[bronze glade]

HOTE guide in the #veteran-class pins has builds if that's what you're looking for

[dim moth]

seriously though who was this guy

bro came out of nowhere and I ain't ever gonna see them again

[final temple]

https://tenor.com/view/mike-meyers-dr-evil-gif-8450853

[main wagon]

Also side note I cannot overstate how silly fun triple barrel gunscum is

Just had to put some respect on that rq

[stray spear]

So I've been playing with the speed blender hivescum

And it's so, so funny

very much so a weasel in chicken coup energy

oops

badly edited it and forgot to cut out the first bit with it

[bronze glade]

if you were truly playing a blender build you should be using 9 stam and mk3 shivs

[stray spear]

I had 8 stam curios

sorry rather

I had 3 of 2 stam curios, with stam from weapon too

[bronze glade]

https://tenor.com/view/rogue-one-verge-of-greatness-gif-13754250

[sonic pumice]

That sounds like carpal tunnel even when I'm not playing it, when is such attack speed enough to make you realize the weakness of flesh?

[bronze glade]

yeah i wouldn't play that build without a macro lol

[tropic crag]

yeah i can't play hyper speed builds anymore than 1 game a day now adays without it killing my hand

[flat mist]

https://outplayed.tv/warhammer-40k-darktide/6ka6aR

Anyone else noticed this bug?

On hit aoe not proccing on headshot

[woeful hill]

assassinated

[rough nimbus]

Stair stab moment

[woeful hill]

another one

madador

[rough nimbus]

Spie scum best class

[near mauve]

sting like a butterfly fly like a bea ahh gameplay

[runic bough]

Is Hive Scum basically the Asspurger version of vet?

[tranquil berry]

nah, he's a less angry version of that dude on the bus that you can buy individual socks from

[low harbor]

No, quite different tbh

[main wagon]

The moth on the highway meeting my windshield at 85mph

[grand shard]

hah, got it with my last ordo dockets. niiice.

what blessings do you put on them, though? For a Desperado/Vulture Mark ranged character.

Bleed?

[bronze glade]

uncanny riposte

[grand shard]

wat.

[cedar cairn]

That's a new one lmao

Mission so cooked they're sending FIVE rejects this time

[grand shard]

love Scum.
Finally an LMG class.

Ogryn was close, but damn ammo economy.

[grand shard]

it was me reconnecting to the game I left, couple minutes later.
The surprising part, though, is that there're actually 5 or more seats on the Valkyrie.

coded in.

[cedar cairn]

I think the bonus seat is for Ogryns so they fit with the other characters without clipping

[pallid quail]

no its for the arfbitrators puppy

[tropic crag]

scum is the slayer class finally, i can go whole aurics without touching my gun its wonderful (still love oggy tho, i'm currently playing alot of both)

[fierce aurora]

Crowbar seems pretty good. On a higher level.

[bronze glade]

lol

[prime ruin]

Is the +dodge talent nimble still broken?

[bronze glade]

no it was always working

[tropic crag]

yeah it was never broken, it was just people not understanding what it was meant to do... i'm like 80% sure something exactly like this happened in vermintide 2 but i might be mixing up memories

and just so its clear, nimble is really good

[prime ruin]

I thought it made it so your actual dodge invincible state was shorter or something

oh ok then

I havent been using it since he came out lol level 137 now

Now I will be gaming

[dire badge]

Nimble is fucking great

[tropic crag]

people thought that because of the way it extends the distance compared to the actual iframes but no... it just doens't work like that but it is still a good node and is a positive

[dire badge]

I always run it

[tropic crag]

yeah i run nimble on all builds

[dire badge]

Better than immune to melee attacks on slide imo

[tropic crag]

the only downside is when it accidently makes you rocket off a ledge because you were on a slope and dodge at the wrong angle

[prime ruin]

me with potion of agility in chaos wastes

[dire badge]

That one room where you go up an elevator and there's a big bridge after it is my bane

[tropic crag]

yeah thats one place

i am a master of falling off things

[dire badge]

Small holes to fall into and so many barrels. Like on this class I have to actually watch out for barrels, not because of the knockback risk but because I've been straight up outright killed from them a couple of times

[tropic crag]

i fell off ledges all the time in vt2 also

or rather i still do even when i play it lol

[low harbor]

Nimble is absurd

Since it scales from your dodge template’s distance

[tropic crag]

yeah its a shame there was so much confusion about it near launch because i'm sure theres still alot of people who were accidently lied to about it

[rough peak]

I took fall damage at the start of gloriana cause of this

before you even get to enemies

I thought I could if I got a good dodge, I was right

[tropic crag]

you can absolutly rocket off the double ramps in the new map if you hit the right angle

[rough peak]

rip

[tropic crag]

i once dodged a sniper without thinking and yeah just instant death because i flew so far

[rough peak]

Your choices were death or death

You chose death

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914150363844779/1334710158525202443/99vpAu6.gif

[main wagon]

I’m convinced the deeper foxholes are literally antlion traps

I watch people dodge into them, sink to the bottom, and then become surrounded instantly

https://tenor.com/view/ant-angry-antlion-antlion-attack-ant-rage-the-rage-comsumes-me-gif-4810985192982401290

[fierce aurora]

I upgraded from bonesaw

The rocket is good. It deleted crusher mobs.

At least on heresy.

[mortal meadow]

rate the build I just made

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0d94903-9630-42b3-8d8d-c02cb60ba439/hav40-slaaneshi-tweaker-marine?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

if you got any recommendations DM me, i ran havoc 40 on it and it was pretty damn good

[twilit egret]

Starting to get scared the cosmetics might be another Arbite situation

[echo harness]

just starting?

[twilit egret]

I took a break

And now Im scared

[echo harness]

I think melee scum might be more fun then ranged scum, this overkill number is kinda funny too

[fierce aurora]

Wrong lingo fam.

[crimson socket]

Hm?

I didn’t do nothing thats a buddy

[astral mountain]

Damn this class is rough. I've enjoyed the first two difficulties, but Heresy is damn rough. Two wounds and you can get 1 hit by Crushers, of which they regularly spawn 5.

Thats not even mentioning the 5 dogs, 4 trappers, 6+ gunners, 3+ muties, 4+ maulers and 200 regular dudes that usually accompany them

Gonna need a new space bar from rubbing a hole in it from dodging so much

[flat mist]

Thats darktide.

We be dodging.

[astral mountain]

So much dodging

[main wagon]

https://tenor.com/view/soccer-slide-geico-gif-12314027

How rejects be moving thru hive Tertium

[astral mountain]

Deadass

[main wagon]

Dodging in DT is kind of like L4D melee. It's very important and learning not to spam it will carry you far

Once you get a feel for the dodge cooldown timer you'll basically be hitting them like as they reset subconsciously

Scum is even more generous in that regard

[astral mountain]

True. Muh dodge cooldown is near instant

[calm aurora]

man i love when the team understands that you need to take a sip of the crate

[elfin root]

what does the purple stuff do on the cleaver?

[ocean hollow]

Without a doubt

I haven't encountered anyone who plays it that well though

[ocean hollow]

Rocket solves all

[ocean hollow]

Laughs in nimble+jittery

[verbal dew]

applies brittleness

[nova valley]

Just imagine, the pain of that metal "I" hitting your ball sack while sliding or dodging

[fallen void]

how does this work

[calm aurora]

basically it makes your overkill dmg useful

[fallen void]

oh

should i take this off when going hyper crit

[coarse creek]

hypercrit short circuits hyperviolence's growth so its antisynergy

[calm aurora]

people here think no especially if you go rampage

[flat mist]

i turned into a spectral dot

[fallen void]

hows this for taxe rampage

[calm aurora]

you are using bm?

[coarse creek]

do you need all the cleave nodes for taxe

[calm aurora]

no

[coarse creek]

i have better nodes i want to take

assuming you're taking bm

[calm aurora]

except the cleave + power node on rampage ofc

I do that for taxe and rashad

[coarse creek]

huh, maybe i should put it on for a few games and see how it feels, people on here were adamant at launch not to take both lol

[calm aurora]

yeah I know, when you read it, it looks like it's really anti synergy but people have been testing and stuff

if you go bm on taxe / rashad or deathblow on hsword you really really want hyper violence

it goes very well together

[coarse creek]

wish there was a mod to see your current hyperviolence number

[calm aurora]

wait, lemme check if uptime track it

[junior field]

Dad…?

[calm aurora]

nope, I can find my ht or hc uptime

Dadz

[junior field]

Played a little hive scum in havoc and holy fuck

The needle pistol is op

[nova valley]

@calm aurora It could be very strong in the right build. But I wouldn't go as far as call it "op"

[calm aurora]

the toxin is op

the needle pistol is just one of the best way to propagate it

and pickpocket makes it unbalanced tbh

[mossy sedge]

I think pick pocket is the bigger problem

Infinite ammo on a weapon like that is ludicrous

[ocean hollow]

It's balanced, psyker doesn't need to reload and has infinite ammo 🤔

And it goes through walls

Pickpocket should give wall piercing rounds

[vast ferry]

needle is super OP, you can equip needle with pickpocket and forgo the other 29 talent points and still cruise through a h40 with no problem

[nova valley]

Thank god you can get it without spending any other talent

[flat mist]

lmao u serious?

[vast ferry]

technically speaking 😏

[flat mist]

Its so busted in rampage builds

you spend every other point on melee boosts

[vast ferry]

it's almost literally any build that's not desperado, the thing is soooo busted 😂

[flat mist]

then take pick pocket and needler and have 90% of what a ranged focused build would have

[vast ferry]

insta 30 stacks on bosses

[calm aurora]

too bad you have to pass through stam speed and hypercritical to get it

what a waste of points :/

[vast ferry]

you can slide around for almost pinpoint crouch lvl accuracy and just kite elite/specials at mach 5 speed

while immune to all ranged attack with that blessing

[calm aurora]

sliding is bad for your pants tho

[vast ferry]

[flat mist]

i was running stam and sprint efficiency on it for the memes

[calm aurora]

''was''

???

[flat mist]

i have commitment issues

[modest patio]

We talking about how good the needle pistol is? Both marks are so good.

[nova valley]

One looks much cooler though

[ocean hollow]

We need dual needlers tho

One explode, other propagates

Maybe then I'd join the darktide of desperado

[nova valley]

Vracks Infantry Needle Gun

Just to be sure

[modest patio]

I’ve never used the needler with desperado

I just take it with rampage and box.

[nova valley]

And for good reasons, I may add

[modest patio]

I do love some desperado gameplay though, just not usually in high havoc. I need to give the Taxe a try, been running Rashad and it’s very good but I don’t like being so slow

[ocean hollow]

I just can't imagine playing anything apart from Melee scum

[runic bough]

Is crowbar better than saw for melee scum?

[livid raven]

is poo better than pee

[ocean hollow]

If pickpocket gave back blitzes, the RPG build would be so cool

[modest patio]

I’d say no, I prefer saw over the two

But neither are great

[runic bough]

I prefer diarrhea

[nova valley]

Desperado mixed with chem dependency is good fun imho. And white strong too

[modest patio]

This would be wild

Rocket a group and get all rockets back

[nova valley]

Wish Vulture was more reliable, but is is really not

[runic bough]

which weapon is diarrhea?

[calm aurora]

would you prefer anal bleaching or balls tanning?

[nova valley]

Balls tanning would be hilarious to showcase at parties

[calm aurora]

needler

[muted pivot]

Braced autogun

[main trellis]

Jesus Christ How Dreadful

[main trellis]

In mortis you can
But thats mortis
Also it would not be cool; it would be OP (it is in mortis; you see it - you pick it everytime & ez mode the rest of the match)

[grand shard]

any stagger breakpoints im missing here?

on 76% collateral on dual auto

[ocean hollow]

At least I'd be making an impact rather than an Inferno psyker shrieking and using uncanny to kill an entire map with no skill exerted

[livid raven]

both would make an impact

recharging blitzes like that would be very stupid tho

it's not even that good in mortis imo, the whole time you waste by drawing, charging, firing and then changing again makes it pretty slow and worse than just shooting your gun

[ocean hollow]

Given that there's a Psyker surplus in havoc anyway, it's just like confirming you have infinite blitzes anyway 🤔

[main trellis]

If i must be honest; i NEVER seen anyone do that on any difficulty
No joke…

Despite abusing uncanny

Nobody is doing that

[hidden timber]

Needle Sniper Rifle is a thing in 40k.

Used to be the only sniper rifle in the game.

[ocean hollow]

Huh?

You've never seen an Inferno psyker with Shriek pulling an extra 1 million damage on everyone by holding right click and then pressing left click?

[main trellis]

Nobody abused uncanny no; i kid you not

[ocean hollow]

Then fuck the people I play with

[main trellis]

Only time i saw that was on vet & zel

Cause some fools think they can make inferno nades good by stacking uncanny (its still dogshit)

And vet cause shredder bleed

But that became even more rare cause kraks are ez

[rough peak]

[main trellis]

Its true unfortunately… i wish infernos were not dogshit… especially cause HS got tox nades that lets be real; inferno should do what they do (maybe even smth extra to differ the two)

[ocean hollow]

Can either of the nades please extinguish flamer fire though

So I don't have to figure out what the multicoloured piss puddle on the floor is

[grand shard]

does this always work or only when I have Vulture buff?

[livid raven]

Always

I suggest using it to evade ranged attacks only

Doesn't really works for melee attacks

[final temple]

It also has a weird interval where you are vulnerable for a moment inbetween applications

[grand shard]

well, I did notice it helped a ton vs berzerker hordes

ragers I mean

[livid raven]

it kinda works and kinda doesn't for melee

i really wouldn't rely on it there but it will save you sometimes

[zenith pagoda]

Yeah I noticed it doesn't work for melee

[hearty bluff]

About to buy my first Needle Pistol, how good is it?

[astral canyon]

Very

[pulsar aspen]

It will trivialize the game for you just as much as the Dueling Sword did and does.

When you have a weapon with a DoT attached to it that can deal with everything.

(and a way to have infinite ammo.. yeah)

[hearty bluff]

Well shit if it trivializes the game idk if I wanna get it lol I at least want some challenge

[pulsar aspen]

The Chem Toxins have an ADM of 0,9 against Carapace other ADMs are higher, the only one that is low should be vs Shields.

So, you have ranged weapon you can spam without a care in the world because you have unlimited ammo that can also deal with the make-or-break armour type in the game, Carapace.

On top of that you have AoE room clear in the form of Rockets and amazing mobility.

[coarse creek]

with pickpocket needle scum too can kite a gigantic mixed horde around a closed loop and kill it with ranged at relatively low risk

[pulsar aspen]

Yes.

I consider it oppressively overpowered, similar to the effect that Dueling Sword has or Scriers Gaze.

Of course, the power level is different, but the end result sort of is.

You just kill everything without a care in the world.

[hearty bluff]

Yea I think I’ll just stick to my dual weapons

More fun

[pulsar aspen]

Do not disregard the weapon itself, but be mindful of its strength.

I am very capable of using the Dueling Sword, i just don't like doing so.

[ocean hollow]

Is it possible to be incapable of using the dueling sword?

[coarse creek]

approx like 50% of the the level 40s i meet in auric qp says yeah

[livid raven]

no

[pulsar aspen]

@ocean hollow Yes, it is absolutely possible to be incapable of using the dueling sword

[livid raven]

there is nothing to it, you just spam one button for hordes and another for single target

you just take 10 years to deal with hordes

[coarse creek]

level 40 vet loads into a histg with a ds4 and a plasma/bolter and i expect that they'll either frag out pretty hard or spend like 60% of the mission runtime overwhelmed in hordes of basic chaff

[low harbor]

Yes
I am

[pulsar aspen]

@coarse creek That is because they are essentially vanilla ice cream flavour, you can't really gauge if they are good or not

[near mauve]

droooling sword aint even the outlier anymore

50% of this game is cheese

[livid raven]

also i think fatshark abandoned their ideas of plasma nerfs

[near mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/xi-wazzup-beijng-china-xi-jinping-gif-14279522050910085087

[final temple]

while I agree that it has extreme potential, I would like to point out that it still relies on your ability to kite in the first place. many, if not most players struggle with that. So I would claim that it can be oppressively overpowered in the hands of a capable player.

[pulsar aspen]

@final temple A good point. I agree with that.

[lilac ermine]

Tru

ALL THE PPL WHO SAYS IT DOES IT GASLIGHTING ME

[low harbor]

I’m not sure

I’ve heard different things

[lilac ermine]

Needle gun isnt good when theres no space to move

[hollow shell]

That goes for most of the weapons in the game lmao, when you're cornered safety is not guaranteed™

[upbeat gyro]

Its perfect sidearm for non-ranged hivescum, 1 talent is all it takes to make it work optimal

[nova valley]

NGL, I laugh when I see Hivescum fellows sliding with needle gun, like crazed wasp, BLINDLY, dodging 5 mauwler just to end up STOMPED from the 6th

[valid rover]

what up

[tranquil berry]

The best trap with the needle is the stripped down blessing. Running in front of a sea of gunners, immune, run and gun popping them as you go

And suddenly you reload... Or bump into a poxwalker... and get insta-shredded

[restive frost]

man this game

why do it randomly decide to start using my monitor for sound instead of my headphones

[tranquil berry]

It's darktide, be happy it doesn't try to use your toaster as a keyboard

[upbeat gyro]

Did you plugin controller?

[rancid coral]

Pickpocket still not nerfed in the big 2026

[trim wind]

buff it

[bronze glade]

make it an aura

[trim wind]

at 20% ammo you stop expending bullets

[leaden fable]

Buff pickpocket to work at all times and off chaff too

[thorny ginkgo]

ranged only mael is miles easier than melee only good lord

crusher clown train galore

[zenith fern]

thats what makes it fun

crusher conga line

[thorny ginkgo]

grenade vet go crazy

[pulsar aspen]

Or, in other words, taking the fun out of it.

[bronze glade]

Desperado HIV and psykers showing up to melee maelstrom got me like

https://tenor.com/view/sealyx-the-boys-homelander-antony-starr-gif-6152221092070676692

[final temple]

oh noes. the class gets to do what basically every other class is setup to do too, which is trivialize certain aspects of the game. inb4 pickpocket remains untouched until like the next class releases

[pulsar aspen]

The beauty of Melee only is it is melee only. Grenade Veteran, Desperado and Psykers take the fun out of it.

[bronze glade]

Desperado HIV and psykers showing up to melee maelstrom got me like

Vraks desperado HIV have joined psykers on my "must barrel" list

[final temple]

hah.

[pallid quail]

this whole class is on my must barrel list

[cedar cairn]

Nice try but I'm already shooting all the barrels for that stupid penance

[vapid jungle]

BOS Barrel on Sight

[crimson socket]

Thats a friends character lol but yeah ouch

[livid raven]

You are welcome for the carry

[willow violet]

whats hte max chem stacks possible?

16 like fire?

[woeful hill]

31

Like fire

[willow violet]

ty

[woeful hill]

There is a tox section at the bottom of the Kuli guide

[willow violet]

last stack with crit right?

[woeful hill]

Unsure exactly

Kuli will mention this if it's correct in the tox section

[low harbor]

30

[woeful hill]

I stand corrected

[willow violet]

k so if its 30 max that means an entire clip of needle already puts it onto max stacks

[upbeat gyro]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1444017590748975125/1451035789776523264/image.png?ex=696b9a23&is=696a48a3&hm=702111990ec51d1ec361f58730740a6ddecc9cac6e903c2b1e0d45a276b4ed51&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

Irony posting that when its Ainz's pinned 😂

[bronze glade]

i only give thanks when it's actually deserved

[livid raven]

Someone has to pick up the slack of the three other classes armed with toothpicks

[bronze glade]

right... by playing a W + LMB cheese build

even darktide bots could prob topfrag with a vraks desp build

[livid raven]

You are welcome to select a better build and match them

[bronze glade]

nah

i'll just barrel them

much easier than going back to the character screen

https://tenor.com/view/find-out-gif-27502543

[mighty belfry]

It makes the modifier boring tbh

[rough peak]

unironically probably true

[fiery oak]

Gun Scum is fun

[bronze glade]

it can easily fall into the "fun for you, aids for the rest of the team" territory

[fiery oak]

Sometimes, too many bullets can be a pain, this is true.

[signal rapids]

Do the recoil and spread reduction bonuses in “Sticky Hands” stack with the same bonuses in “Run N Gun” - or does it diminish into not making enough of a difference to be worth it?

Hard to tell against still targets in the Psykanium

[bronze glade]

Depends on the gun whether it’s worth prob

I take both for stub pistols

But for most guns sticky is enough imo

[mortal meadow]

Still looking for advice on improving this build.

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0d94903-9630-42b3-8d8d-c02cb60ba439/hav40-slaaneshi-tweaker-marine

[calm aurora]

Why the saw?

[nova valley]

I don't get the aids. It shoots stuff. Not messing with you or anything else. It's a DPS

[bronze glade]

the problem is pubbies that don't take pickpocket (so they end up hoovering up every piece of ammo on the map)

and generally vraks desp is just fucking broken

so you kill shit way faster than people running non-broken, non-cheese builds

and as a result, your teammates are left with sloppy seconds after you killed 2/3rds of the horde before they could even get into melee range

[leaden fable]

Played a 4 hive scum match yesterday. Only one desperado scum, but it was over in 5 min because he shot a burster I was pushing which downed two of us and the remaining two promptly died of death

[bronze glade]

not much fun if a single guy is killing the entire horde

not because he's a good player or anything

[livid raven]

I'm always mindful of that

[bronze glade]

but because he's running an op/cheese build

[livid raven]

I always leave a shotgunner or two as leftovers

[bronze glade]

sloppy seconds 😭

[livid raven]

I'm a merciful god

[bronze glade]

i love barreling merciful gods

[upbeat gyro]

Please hand me these op/cheese builds so they game wont just maul me instead

[livid raven]

It's just the usual desperado build

[bronze glade]

vet - i actuall dunno. maybe plasma
psyker - psyker
ogryn - rumblergryn
arbites - exterm shotgun spam build
hiv - vraks desperado (and potentially others)

[livid raven]

any desperado with either uzi/vraks/shredder really

not even desperado even, just pickpocket

[bronze glade]

yeah dap/sap are very strong too

[bronze glade]

its even worse when they don't take pickpocket

[livid raven]

i can't imagine a gun build without it

but just saying that even the usual desperado build but with crate instead is still around there

[bronze glade]

half the desp pubbies i've seen just don't take pickpocket lol

and act like rumblergryns

hoovering up every piece of ammo

[livid raven]

damn i can't imagine

i do take the ammo if there is spare since it still gives you some leeway

or when people wait outside the elevator pinging ammo and forcing you to take it

[upbeat gyro]

Right blessings/perks for desp?

[livid raven]

those

[exotic temple]

Is it just me or does sap crit a lot?

[livid raven]

the opposite

oh wait sap is shredder

it's less than it crits a lot and it's more like dap crits less

[upbeat gyro]

Anything to change for Vraks Desp?

[livid raven]

i do this

[tranquil fjord]

is it reasonable to take more weakspot damage for the vraks than jittery

[livid raven]

oh wait calling for a time out was probably not in

yeah take the weakspot talent instead

[upbeat gyro]

Ok switching those

[livid raven]

i'm just trying to go by memory

[tranquil fjord]

same with calling for a time out

and tis but a scratch

i mean, the weakspot is a worthy addition

[livid raven]

ok i checked and i did this

[mighty belfry]

@main trellis you were right. Battering wasn't needed

[livid raven]

you can take out tis but a scratch but realistically you don't really need other talents either

oh wait quick and deadly isn't selected

i'll just launch the game

[mighty belfry]

Tbf if you have the other two nodes on top, I don't think you really need quick and deadly

It's kinda overrated imho

[livid raven]

how so

[mighty belfry]

Because it doesn't have as much uptime as you'd expect.

The 15% is nice.

3s on successful dodge.

Not so much.

[main trellis]

thats ez

also no nimble why

[mighty belfry]

Doesn't change that it isn't the most consistent damage boost.

[main trellis]

[livid raven]

nimble more like

cringe

[nova valley]

Sorry, you are telling me that the other classes are not rubbing the same builds, like, the strongest for the hardest difficulty? You got Vets PLASTERING the area with granades, psykers erasing the enemy files from the game and arbites being arbites (everything works on that character). It's H40 what do you expect?

[nova valley]

From a DPS!

[main trellis]

not taking QaD is pepega; especially cause despy is used & rockets

[nova valley]

Seems like you met some terrible teammates and you are transferring all that toxicity to other before giving them a chance, tbh

[bronze glade]

what makes you think i'm talking about h40?

[bronze glade]

what?

[livid raven]

he is talking about scab melee only

[bronze glade]

or auric

[livid raven]

i forget you can get that in uhh

[bronze glade]

but yes, i'm not talking about the meme gamemode

[livid raven]

heresy maelstrom

[mighty belfry]

They're talking about CIVI

[livid raven]

why does heresy even have maelstroms

[bronze glade]

to help you level up new characters f aster

[mighty belfry]

Which yes. Gun scum is honestly kind of annoying to play with in CIVI if you're trying to go all melee honestly

[livid raven]

your fault for bringing a knife to a knife fight tbh

[main trellis]

& prepare for highier diffs

[livid raven]

just built different

[upbeat gyro]

Im struggling with Rashad + Needler Hivescum so gonna give Despacito another go again

[mighty belfry]

One build shouldn't encroach on everyone else trying to interact with the game

[rancid coral]

Rashad rampage is easy just

Abuse nimble and jittery

ez

[mighty belfry]

Gun scum in Auric honestly does have that issue.

[rancid coral]

Flamestaff psyker all over again

[upbeat gyro]

Easy is relative, im new to auric difficulty and have just returned from long break

[main wagon]

Yeah it takes playing considerately for you not to be a detriment to Auric matches

Detriment to morale

[bronze glade]

esp with pubbies that don't know about pickpocket 😭

[leaden fable]

Infero psyker, rumbler oggy, smyker

[rancid coral]

Dude I had people in H40 that didn't work how pickpocket works

We're doomed

[main wagon]

Seems a hot topic recently but yeah I said something similar about gunscum here #hivescum-class message

[livid raven]

i suppose i will be extra mindful then

i will not deal with crushers

[bronze glade]

yeah that is very much an issue

[rancid coral]

Someone thought pickpocket reloaded your weapon instead of giving you ammo

This was a H40 player playing Scum 😭

[livid raven]

for the one time that the tooltip is actually right and exhaustive

[mortal meadow]

It helps me build toxin for the stimm better.

[brittle sierra]

Saw is bad in H40

That's the biggest problem I see in this build

You also don't take the right blessings or talent nodes to benefit it the most

[upbeat gyro]

I agree that Desperado is bit too easy dmg compared to many other classes

[brittle sierra]

I don't even care about the Desperado, I just think this build in general makes no sense between the weapons and talents

[lilac schooner]

It has some hard limitations though (armor and kind of bosses)

So it's not as good as psyker ironically

[astral canyon]

Im pretty sure purgatus psyker also struggles against bosses iirc

And you have boom bringer+melee to deal with carapace

[lilac schooner]

desperado build the melee kind of falls flat without all the talents to juice it up

[bronze glade]

It’s ok with shivs and swift endurance

And the gun is horde clear anyway

Shivs kill crushers without melee investment

[lilac schooner]

It's really bad at it esp in havoc

I like just taking precision violence to have some semblance of toughness regen in melee with desperado builds though

[bronze glade]

You still got boom bringer

And shivs take longer against h40 crushers like any melee weapon but they still have uncanny

[mighty belfry]

Also knives

[bronze glade]

Yeah

[mighty belfry]

Zealot wishes they had the shiv knives.

Crazy that they managed to power creep blades of faith like that

[livid raven]

Zealot will never find out the secrets in holding two knives

[mighty belfry]

I'm not even talking about the actual shivs but the special they have.

Toxin throwing knives are stupid

Honestly those throwing knives are the very reason I say pickpocket isn't really necessary for melee scum.

Since they're unbelievably easy to get back.

[mighty belfry]

Shiv melee scum specifically at least.

[verbal dew]

which side of reddit history are you on

[livid raven]

lol leave it to reddit

[compact oyster]

coherency is useless in darktide

[mighty belfry]

And this. Is exactly why we don't care about redditor opinions.

[livid raven]

don't you get increased spawns with poor coherency efficiency

[astral canyon]

I mean its not like blades is bad though

[bronze glade]

Lmao saw that

Rip dude

[livid raven]

it doesn't really matter anyway, maybe 3 years ago

[bronze glade]

Downvoted to oblivion for saying the truth

[mighty belfry]

They're not.

But the toxin knives are straight up better.

[livid raven]

is this on a recent post btw

[verbal dew]

yes https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/1qee28v/why_is_fatshark_so_obsessed_with_every_class/

[compact oyster]

like 1 dog or trapper spawn

[livid raven]

oh wait

they are advocating for the 75% more coherency range talent

that's crazy

[verbal dew]

ye

[livid raven]

on a vacuum i could accept saying coherency is important

but saying coherency is important so you should take the talent is another matter

[verbal dew]

yeah the disconnect is weird

[bronze glade]

reddit moment

[mighty belfry]

Coherency is nice but not worth the talents to extend the range except for

Maybe Born Leader with Vet

Because there's more going on with vet to make that range worth it.

[verbal dew]

ye the added TDR in coherency is p nice

[livid raven]

it could be 150% more range and i still would have doubts

[mighty belfry]

But generally, it really ain't worth picking a node for it.

Especially since it is a completely dead node if you end up being last man standing.

I don't like nodes that are entirely dictated on your team like that personally.

Also

"Huge mechanic"

Auras are nice. CTR is legit pointless. It really isn't as impactful as that person seems to think it is.

[upbeat gyro]

Taking my full ranged build to missoin

[mighty belfry]

Have fun.

[upbeat gyro]

Had to hit ENTER midsentence, got revived

Anyways, full ranged, full fog mission

Pain

[astral canyon]

Yeah the real benefit of coherency are auras and talents that interact with allies in coherency

[verbal dew]

im leveling 2nd scum now, it's been a lot more smooth when it's not all 4 scums in heresy

[astral canyon]

Like demolition team

[livid raven]

good actually

while being a ranged build, you suck ass at range

[mighty belfry]

The amount of gun scum who literally would not pull out their melee to push a poxburster

Along with the hitbox bug.

Awful.

[mortal meadow]

What would you recommend to generate toxin kills WITH good damage

[brittle sierra]

I would forget about toxin damage in general

Except for the needle gun

[mortal meadow]

well see that's the thing, the more toxin kills, the quicker my stimm comes back

the stimm makes me practically buttfuck specialists

[mighty belfry]

Mk2 needle pistol with pickpocket (aeugh), chem nades and chem buffed blackouts

[mortal meadow]

thats the thing though, the thing that makes this shine is the bolt pistol, not needle

[brittle sierra]

For the needle that's fine

But how do to spread toxin with saw into mixed hordes?

[mighty belfry]

Then you probably want chem blackouts with lethal prox

[mortal meadow]

yup, got that

[calm aurora]

I think saw is a high invesment weapon and for a melee build... if he wants more toxin, better use shivs/knive/taxe with toxin on crits

[mighty belfry]

Then you're honestly fine. Its really easy to get blackouts back with explodey bistol

[mortal meadow]

you know I never thought about that

[brittle sierra]

If all you care about is the stimm CDR, just take shivs with coated weaponry

[mortal meadow]

crit shivs

[brittle sierra]

But again, let me ask you

Is it about the toxin or the CDR?

[mortal meadow]

CDR

[low harbor]

What ability are u using

[mortal meadow]

toxin just helps me get my stimm so im buttfucking anything in front of me

[brittle sierra]

Ok, so why not just focus more on killing things

[mortal meadow]

desp

[low harbor]

What keystone are u using

[brittle sierra]

More damage = more killing = more CDR

[mortal meadow]

uhh, ammo keystone

[calm aurora]

despacito

[low harbor]

What’s the ammo keystone

[livid raven]

that's the aura

[mighty belfry]

Vulture's?

[brittle sierra]

Vulture

[mortal meadow]

OHH

yeah vultures

sorry i get keystone and the uh, aura mixed up lmao

[low harbor]

Ok ur lowest possible desperado cooldown is 20~22.5s

[mortal meadow]

i mean the desperado is just kinda there

[brittle sierra]

They are talking about stimm CDR

[mortal meadow]

yeah

[low harbor]

Stim CD rate is for ability uptime no?

[mortal meadow]

nope, its for damage

[low harbor]

So ultimately it is about desperado cooldown

[mighty belfry]

Keeping it 100%. I think stimm crate is better for that setup

[brittle sierra]

They don't have CDR on their stimm

[brittle sierra]

That's a serious problem too

[mortal meadow]

you're probably right honestly

[low harbor]

Then why is everybody saying stim CDR

[brittle sierra]

I'm not 💀

They want to spread toxin to get the stimm CDR back up

[low harbor]

What are u actually running I’m so confused

[mortal meadow]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/a0d94903-9630-42b3-8d8d-c02cb60ba439/hav40-slaaneshi-tweaker-marine

[brittle sierra]

Not sure why, but that is what they want to do

[low harbor]

wtf is stim CDR here???

[mortal meadow]

okay so lemme explain
saw = toxin damage, toxin damage = stim come quicker, stim come quicker? MORE DAMAGE

[brittle sierra]

Stimm CDR is the cooldown of the stimm from the lab

[low harbor]

Holy shit just call it stim recharge please

[calm aurora]

the more you use the saw, the less you shoot

take shivs

[mortal meadow]

you got it boss

[mighty belfry]

This build feels like it's screaming for stimm crate honestly

[brittle sierra]

Btw you can still get stimm back without toxin

[tranquil fjord]

should i use cd stim for desperado

[mortal meadow]

oh undoubtedly i can without toxin, i just want it for speeding the process up

[brittle sierra]

But the bigger question is why do you want the stimm off cooldown in the first place?

If it's for Desperado, you have no CDR node sin the stimm lab

[low harbor]

Saw is entirely a dot-based melee that struggles vs mixed horde due to low cleave & atrocious stagger breakpoints

Boltpistol + chem blackout is a pretty point intensive setup to run

Running both of the above just to get stim to recharge faster is not really worth it esp since you also have desperado for some reason

[mortal meadow]

i mean yeah, im gonna switch saw to shivs

[low harbor]

This is like going 3 extra steps to use stim

While the stim itself doesn’t give u that much more damage

[mortal meadow]

okay, what would you recommend

switch to crate?

[low harbor]

If u want to focus on stim, go crate with shiv

Bonesaw is perhaps the worst melee in the game

[mortal meadow]

i see your point

[upbeat gyro]

So yeah, picked my full ranged hivescum, hit quickplay auric, got this

[low harbor]

I’m hesitant to say it’s the very worst but it’s pretty close

[upbeat gyro]

I had to constantly melee and had crushers coming at me by suprise from 3m in the fog

[mighty belfry]

I don't think its the worst. But it definitely could be way better than it is right now.

[low harbor]

I’m not sure what’s worse than it tbh

DC sword?

[livid raven]

what is the "this"

oh fog

just shoot them, it's not that bad

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah

[mighty belfry]

Ye. Scum just happens to be able to force DC to be good but DC overall feels like a worse weapon overall to me.

[upbeat gyro]

To make it worse, it was map that i have played once in past 1½ year

So i didnt even remember it, and it has lots of drops to lava in end

[mortal meadow]

alright, switched to crate and switched to shivs

[mighty belfry]

At least the toxin on saw can do decent damage to armor generally. DC struggles hard in that regard even against flak.

[mortal meadow]

gonna test it now

[rough peak]

and sniper spam

[mortal meadow]

i mean its definitely not bad

[tender forge]

It sounds nice though

[rough nimbus]

bonesaw's great

does everything pretty well

[leaden fable]

Hell yea dude I came so close to naming my scum super hans

https://tenor.com/view/peep-show-super-hans-moreish-gif-16904726018749754929

[upbeat gyro]

I actually met Super-Hans in another mission while i was SuperHans

[muted pivot]

Bonesaw is not bad

I like purple mode on Burgled

Burgles

[bronze glade]

all fun and games until a mixed horde shows up

[rough nimbus]

I will not believe any lies that this class struggles with horde regardless of any weapon

rampage and rocket stonks go up

[bronze glade]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

[restive frost]

have quick n deadly been explained yet or smth

[bronze glade]

Wdym?

[restive frost]

it work for melee? when u dodge

[bronze glade]

Yeah it’s all damage

[tranquil fjord]

a better description is that it affects all damage within close range

[rough nimbus]

for real tho do people actually think this class isn't a horde mulcher or am I just playing a completely different game

[bronze glade]

You know the difference between hordes and mixed hordes?

[rough nimbus]

is there a meaningful difference

bc I'm pretty sure that after like 30 seconds a mixed horde becomes an elite horde

and there is nothing but hordes of elites if 1 psyker is present anyway

[restive frost]

wish i cud send screenshots

🥀

i dunno if tertium welcome is worth it.. maybe take quick n deadly instead and go for targeted toxin or somethin else

[bronze glade]

yeah

yeah there is

it's a pretty big difference

a horde of poxxers/groaners/bruisers is very different from a horde of poxxers/groaners/bruisers + crushers/ragers

[keen timber]

you'd do more damage with a real melee weapon

[bronze glade]

and saw's cleave isn't great for mixed horde

[rough nimbus]

Yeah, one dies in like 15 seconds and the other is 90% dead in 15 seconds and then you still have a couple ragers and crushers

bro it's carapace, you don't cleave anyway lol

[bronze glade]

some weapons can cleave mixed horde, saw can't

it's not always carapace

[rough nimbus]

you have like 3 talent nodes and 2 blessings for cleave

[mighty belfry]

doesn't matter when the base cleave is horrendous

[mighty belfry]

that's why shock and awe is a popular pick for it

[bronze glade]

is a mandatory* pick for it

[mighty belfry]

But Shock and Awe still doesn't rectify that issue entirely.

[rough nimbus]

I am just playing a different game

[bronze glade]

it makes saw usable in normal hordes

[restive frost]

o ty

[bronze glade]

mixed horde you really are just killing one elite at a time

because that's all the cleave allows for

[rough nimbus]

yeah? Crushers are carapace

[bronze glade]

like i said

[rough nimbus]

I know this is a big surprise, but you don't cleave cara

[bronze glade]

mixed hordes aren't necessarily just carapace spam

[mighty belfry]

it's flak too

[rough nimbus]

flak on rager heads, and mauler bodies

[bronze glade]

sorry, but you can

not with saw obviously

also maniac / flak are very common

in mixed hordes

it's not just carapace (for the third time)

[mighty belfry]

and dreg bruiser heads, and scab bruiser chests, and gunners, some specialists

[final temple]

saw is just not a ‘lemme cleave that mixed horde rq’ weapon.

[mighty belfry]

you see where the issue is here?

[rough nimbus]

You mess up your angle you go from hitting 3 ragers (which is pretty decent imo) to hitting like 1 or 2

[mighty belfry]

Most of the game's roster, the saw will have trouble cleaving through.

[mortal meadow]

YEAH im not gonna lie saw is uh, pretty mid

[mighty belfry]

It just isn't that kind of weapon unfortunately.

[rough nimbus]

the weapon with -60% hitmass and 100% cleave (not including the various power buffs) struggles with cleave is such a funny thing to say

[mighty belfry]

Yeah because it does.

[rough nimbus]

like, maybe it is straight up a hitmass of 1 or something on that push attack and I'm just making it up in my mind

[final temple]

the saw is actually pretty solid. it’s just not good at cleave. and 100% cleave of shit is just 100% more shit.

[rough nimbus]

but that thing demolishes horde

[mighty belfry]

Those help obviously but when the weapon itself just doesn't have a lot of cleave to begin with, it falters regardless of those blessings.

[mortal meadow]

no.. no it does not demolish hordes

[mighty belfry]

It shreds through unarmored hordes

But that's really the extent of its horde clear potential.

[mortal meadow]

i have to heavy spam just to get it to kill a mauler

[mighty belfry]

Once any flak gets into the mix, it starts to run into trouble.

[mortal meadow]

carapace? you can pretty much forget it

[final temple]

the saw in combo with the needler has a clear gameplan. you saw through unarmored hordes, take out the occasional elite in your face but the needler is what takes care of most elites.

[mighty belfry]

tbf there aren't many things that actually can cleave carapace.

[mortal meadow]

im gonna be so honest
obesefish should've gave us bolters, it'd be funny as fucking shit

[bronze glade]

I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t give the unlimited ammo class bolter right after they nerf bolter ammo???

[rough nimbus]

Legit the only things I can think of that goes through carapace are flamers and sunder powersword lol

maybe there's more but carapace has a hard stop on cleave

[astral canyon]

and right after they gave it a new aoe focused mark

i cant fathom why fatshark did not give scum access to it

[mortal meadow]

i cant either

baffles me to high holy death

[lost ravine]

i would argue that perhaps it was not thickfish but rather james workshop himself

[rough nimbus]

I shouldn't even be involved with any weapons discussions with this game no one even wants to play the combat they just want things to die in 2 seconds

[final temple]

necromunda is full of models with bolt guns. ain’t james who’s a bitch here.

[keen timber]

surely a class capable of instantly dumping two bolter mags into something after popping a +str +rending stim or whatever wouldn't end up stupid

[lost ravine]

i'm certain it will end up stupid anyway, but via a different road

[keen timber]

all of scums guns are small arms for the most part

[lost ravine]

i suppose boltgun is also rather immobile and does not sound fitting for the playstyle scum is "intended" to have

or was advertised as

[final temple]

‘munda has baddies run around with massive assault cannons. so this is definitely FS wanting a specific gameplay

[mortal meadow]

obesefish, give us an option to primary a rocket launcher only and my life is yours

[mighty belfry]

i'll be real, i really would imagine that being a balance thing

i do not see bolter on hive scum currently being a good idea like at all

[lost ravine]

oh for sure

a bolter unshackled by the concept of ammo conservation would be troublesome to say the least

[low harbor]

It can kill horde & mixed horde well yea

Some weapons are just less good at it

[bronze glade]

How would you rank saw

[mortal meadow]

what weapon would be worse than saw

ask yourself that

[low harbor]

Wouldn’t bring it to fight 10+ ragers at once with melee only

[rough nimbus]

I feel like in all of my hours in havoc 40 I really can't remember the last time I struggled to deal with hordes in this game

you just do a little circle and half of the guys in front of you just stand there while you hit them

especially since ragers like to stand 15 feet away and keep swinging, that's just a couple less slots of enemies you have to manage

[pallid quail]

fff tier

or if im being generous id rank it like those junk bonds they sold in 2008 they called "mezzanine"

[lilac ermine]

I struggle in hordes of crushers

[bronze glade]

bring rocket launcher

[lilac ermine]

I only struggle in that other mode

The rotten armor

[bronze glade]

needle pistol and dodge a lot

rocket launcher with toxin for blitz

🙂‍↕️

[final temple]

Praise be to our lord and saviour. The boom.

[upbeat gyro]

Mission dropping me this, guess it wants me to try something else too than just Vraks IAG for despe

[exotic temple]

Dap just flows better for desp

[upbeat gyro]

Gonna try it out next mission, just gotta check what blessings and perks

[exotic temple]

I think its blaze away speedload and flakniac

[upbeat gyro]

Oh noes, i guess not yet then

Unless.. i make it halfway there with like 2-3 tier blessings and do few easier ones

[final temple]

gotta dump those ~300k on green sacrifices

[coarse creek]

necromunda is so funny

dark angels: this jetbike is valuable archaeotech, a priceless relic from a golden age
some rando necromunda gang: oh yeah, we have a bunch of these with twin linked plasma guns we taped to them

[upbeat gyro]

Too poor, rather do few missions

[exotic temple]

You can run a melee build and take them as your side arm if you just want to power lvl them but don’t want to nerf yourself too bad

[upbeat gyro]

Just went from auric to damnation, should be fine

[exotic temple]

Oh yeah ez pz

[upbeat gyro]

What does the sideways aiming do?

[rough peak]

Brace firing? improves stability and accuracy

afaik

[stable kindle]

It also improves firerate on some weapons

[calm aurora]

on one brauto afaik

unless you're looking at bolter but that's different

[dim moth]

revooooooolver

[upbeat gyro]

These damnations teams, this is where all the bad players apparently go, and then they start blaming each other too

[calm aurora]

ah yeeess

[eager reef]

even in 40k every solution can be solved with dcut tape

[exotic temple]

You can sorta hit things farther away more accurately but you have to tap fire

[drifting heron]

Also increases damage

[muted pivot]

I'm leaning away from maniac on most things these days tbh

I like it more for enabling oneshots on weapons that need it

[drifting heron]

Maniac is largely a breakpoints perk

[muted pivot]

Wouldn't take it on DAP

[drifting heron]

or if your weapon is truly that bad at uny/cara or maniac

[tranquil fjord]

maniac if only it helps with noticeable breakpoints

[muted pivot]

Prefer flak and maybe unyielding idk

Still trying to figure that out now

Play least desperado

Wouldn't ever take carapace on a weapon bad at carapace lol, often crit does it better on the dogshit-carapace weapons

[tranquil fjord]

ive found i usually take maniac, flak on guns

and then flak carapace or unyielding on melees

[drifting heron]

I just reference a path guide for ranged perks

Cause breakpoints actually matter for guns

[muted pivot]

Depends on the gun

DAPs are the least breakpointy weapon ever

[dim moth]

speed reload

[vapid jungle]

Whoa ima try that.

Maximum pew pew

[tight coral]

which kind of build? do you have a link to one

[rancid coral]

I mean any type of build

either desperado, rampage or stimm crate

just make sure to have Nimble and Jittery and you're essentially unkillable xdd

[astral canyon]

Most of my melees have unyielding+carapace perks

At least the ones i use on my melee focused builds

[limber cradle]

Atp I consider this shit the havoc default

[low harbor]

It depends
But generally it follows smth like this:
Carapace-capable melee weapons use flak/unyielding and carapace (except combat and tactical axes, those run unarmored + carapace)
Other melee weapons run maniac/unyielding and flak

Ranged weapons are a lot more specific on what breakpoints they can hit
If rapid fire ranged weapon then usually maniac/unyielding + flak

Unyielding for melee is more towards killing bulwark faster (better monster dps is just a side benefit), especially for frontline playstyles

[spark gyro]

I generally slap unyielding and carapace on weapons that I've already seen to be good enough for flak and maniac to me, as well as for when I wanna melee bosses and deal with carapace (duh)

Ranged is generally flak and maniac unless there's a breakpoint (which I likely don't know about), since I mostly use it to deal with specials and ragers

If the weapon has a high enough ADM, like how laspistol's flak ADM is > 100%, I just forgo flak and do something it's missing, like maniac and unyielding

I also know maniacs generally have higher health than flak, so if flak is lower than maniac on the damage table, I don't immediately feel concerned about it

I also generally leave perks as an "which enemy do I want to die sooner" question, which generally is specials and ogryns/bosses

At worst, I can kite or evade gunners and ragers, but crushers and bulwarks outright screw my ability to deal with hordes comfortably and I want them dead as soon as possible, with the same going for bombers and flamers