hivescum-class

[upbeat gyro]

Even my Vrak i ran out of plaststeel so its now like 440 or somehing

[muted pivot]

1500 hours of resources sitting in my account lol

Vraks 5 is one of the top choices anyway so you'll do great with it

I like the autos because built in run and gun

[upbeat gyro]

My Steam says i have almost 500 hours, but back in 2023-2024 when i played, the game used to not properly close, so id start it next day and it had been farming 24h playtime

[zenith pagoda]

I fucking hate pubs, 2 clearance 40 players, about 10 metres away from me, instead of backing up and revving me they were just completely oblivious

[muted pivot]

It feels like playing payday 2 again

[upbeat gyro]

Also lots of the time was just farming good roll weapons with the old crafting system

[muted pivot]

Aka flushing plasteel down the yellow throne

[upbeat gyro]

Yeah i wasted A LOT

Funniest thing was how for Veteran i tried to get that IV blessing power cycler for like 5-6 months

[amber sundial]

woe, hadron bricking your god roll.

[upbeat gyro]

Never got it, gave up and quit the game

[idle ore]

Just don’t go down 😭

[amber sundial]

one of my friends didnt know to favorite items and accidentally deleted their psword with pc4 💀

they quit the game after that lmao

[upbeat gyro]

Gotta say, game is in lot better condition these days, than early 2024

Meta was kinda stale, though im not sure if flamer psyker is that exciting either

[amber sundial]

id rather anything else than, stare at eye bleedingly bright flames for 99% of the game and win

be meta

[limber cradle]

Seconded

[muted pivot]

Gun psyker is where it's at for fun

Or if you do go flamer, at least go full blaster with shriek instead of dome

[rough peak]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gun-shoot-ak47-war-gif-7990705687144326

[upbeat gyro]

Tried flamer quickly, was pretty boring

[idle ore]

Flamer is boring when density is low

It’s dopamine seeing the kill feed light up

[brittle sierra]

WE HAVE FLAMER????

[idle ore]

When you actually have density

[rough peak]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-burn-wargame-fantasy-burning-gif-16670316

[final temple]

I have a problem with smykers.

that is highly debatable. given the delayed damage and the fire rate you are unlikely to hit any relevant breakpoints (would be on ogryns and bosses) while preserving ammo without wasting mental load on it. for most use cases their single target performance is effectively identical.

[fallen void]

whats a smyker
i have a problem with psykers in general

[final temple]

you shoot specialists once, elite twice, ogryns thrice and bosses 5 times.

[final temple]

smite psyker. the ones who think they are palpatine.

[fallen void]

oh

yeah fuck them

proffesional lag generator

[brittle sierra]

There are breakpoints for hounds

[final temple]

don’t even struggle with that. it’s neither fun nor really that helpful. you waste a slot on CC and somewhat useable damage

[brittle sierra]

7 doesn't kill them, but 9 does

[final temple]

hounds you shoot twice and be done. aiming with the needler is counterintuitive to the advantages that dots actually bring

if the stacks were to change or the bonuses, we could talk about it

[brittle sierra]

But like, killing things faster has its value

There isn't really any drawback in using mk6 over mk2 since the alt attacks are pretty cheeks 😔

[final temple]

or the ammo economy. but as it stands it’s just a waste of time

[idle ore]

Why would you use something that’s strictly worse

Assuming you’re not using alt fire

[final temple]

it’s not strictly worse. I just explained how the difference is effectively inconsequential

they are basically the same unless you either waste time with aiming for weakspots or use the mk2 alt fire

[idle ore]

It’s not a waste of time aiming for weak spots lmao

Pickpocket has spoiled this man beyond comprehension

[final temple]

with the needler it is.

the whole point is that you quickly dump the minimum required shots into a target before you focus on sth else. has nothing to do with pickpocket. it’s about opportunity cost.

[lapis raft]

well pickpocket is in game atm so that is how the game works atm indeed

[idle ore]

Okay so say you hipfire, you can only benefit if you happen to weakspot or crit or both

If you’re not using the alt fire, just use the 6

[lapis raft]

when they nerf pickpocket mk6 will get better as only thing its good at is ammo economy

[cursive zinc]

Back to the revolver.

[lapis raft]

well you will still use needler until they nerf needler regarldess

most rampage builds dont click pickpocket for example and they still dont use revolver. even though with shivs i think theres very good argument for revolver

[final temple]

if I want to aim specifically for weakspots I would take the revolver over either. the whole advantage of the needler is the low mental load. identify target. dump minimum shots for lethal stack. move on. don’t need to aim or care after taking the shots.

[lapis raft]

as killing important stuff with needler is slow

[idle ore]

Bruh

[lapis raft]

even if it takes 1 shot

[idle ore]

Are you using the alt fire

If not use the 6

[main trellis]

Nah thats ogrynheimer

[idle ore]

It’s that simple

[main trellis]

If only you would see what a smyker can do

[cursive zinc]

I use it now because infinite ammo on every build, special sniping, crusher weakening, boss DPS, and reaper weakening. Without infinite ammo, I'd just go straight back to instant kill special sniping.

[final temple]

it’s not. my argument isn’t that the mk2 is better. it’s that the numerical advantage is inconsequential. I don’t know why you try to argue for using the mk6 when that isn’t my point xD

[idle ore]

It’s not inconsequential

Sometimes it produces a benefit

[final temple]

yeah. and sometimes a teammate takes care of a problem I have. it’s just not a good argument.

[main trellis]

You haven’t went into the field then; EVERYONE abuses the shit out of a needler pickpocket combo

[idle ore]

If we go with your play style it’s a small benefit but it still exists

[final temple]

if anything, I’d like the difference between the two marks to be more noticeable.

[cursive zinc]

Which to me is more of an issue on needler being dumb than infinite ammo. Most guns I oculd never really make use of infinite ammo that much i think if the weapon wasn't amazing at everything

[final temple]

even if it’s just the alt fire

[worn yoke]

i dont like smyker because it slows down the game

not performance wise but the flow

[final temple]

I know what a smyker can do. still have a build for when I feel like being an ass. my point was that it ain’t fun 😉

[main trellis]

Imagine infinite 0.9 adm dot that ticks ‚twice’ as fast as bleed vs the most tankiest of enemies

Balanced

[fallen void]

thats a momentary spike, smykers LOOOOVE their lightning

[final temple]

I am actually enjoying ogrynheimer. there. I said it.

[main trellis]

Its fun to the smiker

[final temple]

it’s fun staring at a bunch of immobile targets?

[main trellis]

Yeah; ogrynheimer will crash you
Smiker will slow you

[cursive zinc]

Happy dog

[main trellis]

They are not immobile
They wiggle nicely & dance for me

They also scream nicely

[final temple]

You are evil

[main trellis]

Sadistic; not evil

[fallen void]

the lag trynity

ogrynheimer spyker minebites

i once played a mission with 2 minebites and a smyker

i had sub 30 framerates for the entire 20 minutes

i REALLY wanted to quit but

[lapis raft]

idk i dont rly inspect peoples builds in game that often but im mostly going from what i've seen + what most of people do in the actual rampage builds they post here

[fallen void]

need them curios

[lapis raft]

and with HV the cost for pickpocket is kinda brutal so its understandable

[idle ore]

What are you giving up

To path pickpocket

On a rampage build

[lapis raft]

well its 3 or 2 points cost as you dont want HC so depends on what are you clicking

[idle ore]

Yea so where do you put those points

That yield more than infinite ammo on a busted weapon

I asked this last time ppl said u don’t take pickpocket on rampage build

I’m genuinely curious

Maybe I’m missing out on smth big

[near mauve]

i take pickpocket on every build cause why would i say no to free ammo

[lapis raft]

well this is for example what i would do for rampage adrenaline. i would have to drop like jittery and coated for pickpocket

and thats already skipping some very good nodes as well

[knotty cipher]

what blessings for hypercrit taxe mk iv(down and up heavies)? shred/headtaker or shred/bm?

[low harbor]

wat weapons are this for

[lapis raft]

and this is rampage adrenaline, rampage dependency has even less points to work with

[lapis raft]

i ran shivs and chaxe with this

[low harbor]

why coated weaponry

[fallen void]

beautiful dog

[lapis raft]

sample collector and keeping up toxin stacks

[low harbor]

have u done any tests on how much it improves sample collector

[idle ore]

You can easily drop any combo of bellow, coated, or float to get pickpocket

[low harbor]

as opposed to just kills faster

[idle ore]

None of those will be better than pickpocket

[limber cradle]

I don't think you need coated for sample collector tbh

Like it's nice but not required

[low harbor]

coated weaponry is genuinely one of the worst talents on hvs tree

[final temple]

I have heard that sample collector actually only gives 2% if the kill is by toxin damage. any confirmation?

[limber cradle]

In higher diffs there's 80 gazillion groaners around

[lapis raft]

not rly, but for shivs i dont think i would drop coated, for chaxe i was considering it for sure

[limber cradle]

The only true use case for it imo is bossing

But that's kinda in a vacuum

[lapis raft]

but with shivs special into coated is pretty strong alone

[low harbor]

yea, genuinely abysmal talent

[limber cradle]

Yeah I agree

[low harbor]

the only use case it has is not even particularly good

[limber cradle]

Yeah, you can just use the stupid needler

Mag dump a boss

Then go into melee

Or yk throw shivs

[low harbor]

nah it's worthless most of the time

[brittle sierra]

The toxin usually doesn't get applied anyways since shivs one shots most enemies with crits

[final temple]

If I wanted a pickpocket rampage build I’d do this.

[low harbor]

for that same exact 1 point for the same crit-oriented build, hypercrit is way better

[brittle sierra]

I'm wondering if it is worth it for toxin mania tho 🤔

[final temple]

coated into mania?

[brittle sierra]

Yes the extra damage one

[lapis raft]

well you had to skip both jittery and battering here, so i def wouldnt do this at least

[dire badge]

jittery is a must have imho

[low harbor]

nah, 15% conditionally from critting enemies near u and somehow not killing them

[final temple]

I am considering pathing through HC instead of ammo and picking battering instead of HV. you can always move the 4 stack node of chem dep into jittery.

[low harbor]

hypercrit is way better than +15% mag size

it's not even a real competition

[final temple]

of course. that build just wants to focus on rampage + HV

[low harbor]

HperV is not in direct conflict with hypercrit

[final temple]

yes. yes it is. please don’t make us have this discussion again. it’s a waste to have both just to cover the edge cases of either. HC has always the tendency to delay HV stacking for no advantage.

[brittle sierra]

Tell em boss 😈

[low harbor]

lol they can believe what they want

but it's not in direct conflict with hyperviolence

[brittle sierra]

Yeah ur right but I just want hands thrown 😈

[low harbor]

if it worked for all crit atks (including those that do >=100% of enemy remaining hp), then yea

it would actually remove value from hyperviolence significantly based on ur crit rate

but it doesn't

[final temple]

It does. you look at the wrong issue. HC tends to delay HV as you build up damage stacks from other talents. it’s not so much that they necessarily interrupt each other but HV ramping up gets delayed by HC. this in turn devalues what HV offers so you invest 2 points for something that HV already does by itself. There are good cases to be made to use either for certain weapons and it’s not like this devaluation will significantly worsen your performance. it’s just a waste.

what I would be more interested in is if anybody has tried let’s say running shivs just with HC and rampage and what they think of that.

[low harbor]

not as good as running both hyperV and HC at the same time that's for sure

[bronze glade]

feels like this is pretty easy to test with creature spawner

just test horde clear times with HC, with HV, and with both HV and HC

[final temple]

we have had these tests. the outcome was that using both actually slows down kill speed.

[idle ore]

Where test?

Want to see

[final temple]

the impact is so low that this is basically a very niche issue

[bronze glade]

that's funny because it was the other way around for me

[final temple]

tanner did that. there was a whole back and forth between him and mr E about the impact.

[bronze glade]

lmfao

tanner

[idle ore]

Wrap it up

Tanner cooked us

[brittle sierra]

Tanner more like

BANner

AMIRITE!?!????

[bronze glade]

#2 source of DT misinformation (after Mr E) at it again

[final temple]

that was about to be the expected reaction. It’s not like he didn’t show his methodology.

[low harbor]

I could test it later

[final temple]

thanks!

[low harbor]

10 rager / 10 mauler

[final temple]

more data never hurts

[low harbor]

cuz that's usually where hypercrit works

[bronze glade]

i think you should test against bruisers

[brittle sierra]

https://youtu.be/Spb_kfaU8Sc?si=g0lTIwLaDWrRZdt5

https://youtu.be/WFUBnb04Hw0?si=RqyQ8Ak91v7Kyezw

[low harbor]

I'd assume that for smth like heavy sword, hV alone (no hC) is debatably faster vs ragers

[bronze glade]

because that's where the "anti-synergy" between HC and HV would come into play

[low harbor]

but I'm pretty skeptical on shiv/rashad

[low harbor]

nah basically the only reason to take hC while taking hV is to 1 tap mauler/rager on lower dmg atks

[bronze glade]

i know, but the point is to test the "anti-synergy" too

[low harbor]

if hC + hV is faster vs mauler/rager than hV alone then the anti-synergy doesn't rly stand

cuz hC is still getting u kills

sure dmg rampup for hV is slower but ur getting kills to compensate

[final temple]

kills you would have anyways through cleave with hv

[low harbor]

yea, would just take extra atks

as opposed to immediate death dealing

[final temple]

I think you should add something that isn’t susceptible to hC.

or better yet. do both. I am sure there are constellations where hC+hV has no negative impact

if we can qualify which scenarios are affected we can better evaluate the impact

[brittle sierra]

Ok I finished the first video

I don't understand why Tanner refuses to edit his videos

It's hurting my eyes 😔

[final temple]

because he is a dipshit. we can be happy that he forms coherent sentences.

in all seriousness I am not sure he has the know how.

[brittle sierra]

I also don't see what buffs he has on currently

If this were a control test, I would just wipe the talent tree

[final temple]

there should be a third video where he specifically addresses hc + hv

https://youtu.be/dyQQfSWzsPM?si=emEZ_S9hGYhYls7u

[brittle sierra]

His thumbnails are also 😬

Unironically, they look like 4chan memes

All of them

I don't know how to explain it

[final temple]

sure doesn’t help to mitigate his tendency for hyperboles

[low harbor]

I'm almost done with flamer blessings

[final temple]

[pine shell]

Is he? I occasionally watch his stuff and it seems relatively well researched

[final temple]

I saw that.

[brittle sierra]

I'm sorry, I know it is irrelevant to what he is saying, but him pressing the pause and play button makes me

[low harbor]

he's like spinning 50/50

[brittle sierra]

brother, just do it in the editing of the video

please

[low harbor]

he has enough basic understanding

[charred bronze]

I find it difficult to test empirically, but I find both better in scenarios where I'm fighting maulers and ragers in a mixed horde AND there are lulls in fighting. H-V alone is probably better in scenarios where you're constantly wading through enemies, like Havoc

[low harbor]

but lacks deep lvl understanding

[pine shell]

Hmm I see. Is there anyone on YouTube that does?

[low harbor]

only playtester channels afaik

[brittle sierra]

he is good at the game, nobody doubts his abilities

but the things he has done on and off the discord are pretty inexcusable

[low harbor]

yt not a good resource for info unfortunately

[low harbor]

(he's not even "good" at the game)

[vivid wedge]

^

[brittle sierra]

"good" as in he can play aurics 😈

above that.....

[final temple]

He screams ADHD to me and resulting of that is challenged to sit down and formulate his ideas exhaustively. his intuition seems to not be misguided tho

[trim wind]

Reginald is probably the best you can do on the tubes?

[brittle sierra]

if I had a nickle every time someone with ASD got pulled into the 4chan black hole, I would be bezos

[low harbor]

also gets stuff wrong

[vivid wedge]

Watching him play hivescum should be a war crime

[brittle sierra]

I am just happy I didn't get sucked in tbh

[pine shell]

I have no idea what those are tbh

[low harbor]

idk maybe I'm a bit too harsh on the technicalities

[trim wind]

Ye best you can do doesn't mean always right, certainly miles better than tanner

[low harbor]

but basically anything below kuli guide lvl is not good enough to me

(including my own guide)

[final temple]

on the other hand we obviously need a rigid methodology if we want to discern the highly arcane FS logic and to make informed decisions on its impact xD

[brittle sierra]

on the discord he got banned witch hunting the mods and the CM

outside the discord he is very racist, ie: made nazi "hypotheticals", called junteenth a "fake holiday", and makes sinophobic posts

[eager reef]

doesnt have pictures made in MS paint, not a real guide

[low harbor]

I did powerpoint and MS word

[charred bronze]

Ah, so he's trash, then.

[eager reef]

close enough

[low harbor]

and excel for that one DOT chart

[trim wind]

Tanner sucks real bad yea

[final temple]

well. that sure doesn’t endear him to me. still, I am just interested in the data.

[brittle sierra]

I have the receipts btw if yall dont believe me, these are not hidden, these are all public information

[low harbor]

guide backlog jumpscare

[pine shell]

Oh shit. Nazi hypotheticals?

[eager reef]

you know most people done even know what juneteenth is

[vivid wedge]

I mean most people in the US can barely read at a third grade level, so no suprises there.

[brittle sierra]

yeah he made a poll asking: "would you watch a movie made by nazis if the movie had nothing political in it?"

[eager reef]

that's more a failing on our education system but fair enough

[trim wind]

He swore up and down that the revolver sucked, at the time it was the de facto best ranged weapon. His data sucks dick

[pine shell]

That's... weird

[final temple]

oh. well. that sucks.

[pine shell]

I mean I guess theoretically, being very generous I can see how someone with no social understanding might think that's an interesting thought experiment to explore?

[low harbor]

(it kinda still is)

[pine shell]

Unless he was actually trying to promote some actual nazi movie lol

[trim wind]

Right but this was the height of "there simply aren't other options really "

[final temple]

It’s a legitimate concern these days even, given the state of us policies I shall not further elucidate.

[charred bronze]

But they should. Emancipation day is objectively a good thing to celebrate.

The people who want to erase it as a celebration have a very specific agenda with extremely obvious motives

[eager reef]

i will raise you that it was made a holiday with absically no fanfare, and no explanation. my sister was in school at that time and they didnt even cover it

[pine shell]

What's a legitimate concern?

[eager reef]

so to most, it's just another day off.

[brittle sierra]

omg he deleted all of his sus posts 💀 #general-chat message

everything since 2024 is just GONE

[final temple]

that otherwise inconspicuous media production companies are ran by genuine nazi ideologues.

[eager reef]

hell my work doesnt even recognize it as a paid holiday

[pine shell]

Ah gotcha

[charred bronze]

Sadly, that's true of many formal celebrations that have important roots.

And it only got federal recognition as a holiday in 2021, and conservatives decried it as "woke", so. . .

[eager reef]

but im also the wrong person to talk on the subject. i do not care about any holiday. none of them mean anything to me bc i woke nearly all of them

[final temple]

I would like to lodge a complaint about Christmas. GF is so into it, I get to hear christmas songs all year round. please send help.

[charred bronze]

I bet she's a lovely person but I couldn't

[eager reef]

makes me glad my place has a strict no music rule so i dont have to hear it

[final temple]

It’s that or Drake. at some point I decided that Last Christmas on repeat is the lesser evil.

[low harbor]

ykw, christmas is preferable at that point

[charred bronze]

And I love 40s xmas standards around the holidays and go see xmas lights with my partner and such. Not an xmas hater at all

[eager reef]

get her into the songs from Nightmare Before Christmas. so you can hear songs that are good.

[final temple]

I have developed a deep appreciation for the time it is not Christmas.

[final temple]

I tried!

[eager reef]

it actually snuck up on me this year

[final temple]

it does every year. damn holiday interrupting my vibes

[eager reef]

normally i get a clue as the ships will come in looking festive

[brittle sierra]

Guys, ending slavery isn't that big of a deal 😞

Smh my head

[charred bronze]

Feels like it's xmas for 2.5 months every year and they keep pushing it further. Saw xmas lights up in mid october.

[brittle sierra]

2 groups of people tackling each other for 4 hours:

[eager reef]

tbf it didnt even end it entirely, it still exists even in america, we just call them interns now

[charred bronze]

A lot of smh these days.

[bronze glade]

i mean it's also an extra holiday

[charred bronze]

And prisoners.

[bronze glade]

why would anyone say no to that

[brittle sierra]

slavery still exists,

it's called unregistered immigrants and prisoners

[eager reef]

this is a separate topic. i have no issue making people in prison do labor, esp if it's used to train them on jobs.

[charred bronze]

Because "anything good for 'them' is bad for 'us'"

[eager reef]

the only way to solve the first is to either send them all back or make them all citizens, neither is a viable option

the problem with both is we just dont have the manpower to handle that

[charred bronze]

That's how they make it all work, because it's all palatable. I'm not talking about training the incarcerated in trades. If you have the emotional stamina for research, the rabbit hole goes pretty deep on that one.

But this isn't the best venue for a deep dive

[brittle sierra]

viable for who?

the domestic buisnessmen? 💀

[eager reef]

america lacks the ability to do either. we'll never deport everyone and we would never be able to make everyone a citizen

[charred bronze]

There are dozens of options between those two extremes that have actually been used at various points in the past.

[brittle sierra]

immigration first and foremost is an economic policy

the question is, who is the economic viability for?

[eager reef]

sorry america only operates on two extremes.

[charred bronze]

Sure seems to these days

[brittle sierra]

against popular belief, there is only about 5-10% job overlap between immigrants and citizens

so they are not "taking our jobs"

[final temple]

https://tenor.com/view/communism-liberty-prime-fallout-marty-robbins-aint-i-right-gif-15145342758895240294

[brittle sierra]

the housing crisis is purely artificial by the banks

there are more houses than what can fit people in them

[eager reef]

been trying to buy land for awhile and it's such a pain dealing with banks

[limber cradle]

The powers that be don't want you to know there's more than enough for everyone if we share

[eager reef]

tbh my only real complaint is people who come in and dont even bother to learn the dominate language. when i got dual citizenship with canada i had to learn french

[brittle sierra]

so there isn't really much reason we can't bring more people in, the financial sector just wants to keep them out so they can make money offshoring their products

[charred bronze]

There are so many systemic issues with housing right now it's overwhelming. Residential property needs to stop being treated as an investment product, for a start.

[brittle sierra]

people who come in only stay if they are skilled: engineers, doctors, ect... because they increase the property value

everyone else is chewed and spit out on a momments notice

you use them for cheap labor, and instead of letting them accumulate wealth and value, you kick them out before they can pay off their loans or rent and seize their assets

rinse and repeat

a very effective method of squeezing every once of labor with little to no loss

if they get desperate and default to crime, even better, you get to use them for slave labor in the prison system

the moment they get out, they can't get employed again, so they go back to crime. Rinse and repeat

[bronze glade]

this isn't the spicy scum chat i signed up for

[dire badge]

yeah im here to scu my hive nad chop my fent not talk politics

[brittle sierra]

aren't the scum like the most "progressive" of the imperium? 💀

doesn't the anarchist constantly talk about the Imperium system

BH constantly talks about Tithe rats

[dire badge]

They're all drug addicts tho

stims? i love em, you love em

[brittle sierra]

I would be addicted to narcotics too, if I couldn't get my medication for my mental problems 😔

[eager reef]

i simply drink and smoke instead. all my mental problem go away a pint and half a pack down,

[dire badge]

they def are victims of circumstances but end result is that they are scum and are fit for cannon fodder and some high ranking members for strike teams ig. I mean Yorick used hivescum and mobilized them against orks so it's not too far fetched

[eager reef]

dont forget hive scum exists as a class bc wolfer managed to piss off all the Tertium cartels

[dire badge]

mmhmm

[final temple]

I’m just in for the shits n giggles

[brittle sierra]

ig Nurgle isn't good at making people happy with narcotics

should have worshiped Slaanesh smh my head 😔

[dire badge]

and the all seeing eye is probably paying them alot considering bounty hunter voiceline is all seeing eye )inquisitor) the cartel, nobles come to them for problems

[eager reef]

they cut into my profit margins, papa gotta go

[dire badge]

actually nurgle is theo nly god that will make you happy solong as your connection to the warp isnt severed and you realize theh orror and pain you're in

[brittle sierra]

yeah but that's bad for buisness

[woeful hill]

Thank you for your hard work

[charred bronze]

Khorne worshippers that keep winning fights are generally pretty happy too. Well, angry probably, but happy to be angry? Something like that

[brittle sierra]

the reason why things like sex and narcotics are soo profitable,

is because they both fill an infinite demand in human society

narcotics = medication

sex = therapy

just "illegal" 😈

[final temple]

laughs in Sabbat Worlds’ Blood Pact

[unique dagger]

no problem, those danish people still won't learn

[pine shell]

In what world is sex equivalent to therapy? 😅

[charred bronze]

Actually, all the heretics that aren't degraded cannon-fodder are probably pretty okay with what they got going on. Tzeentchians get power. Slaanesh worshippers get to gorge on their vices, etc

[dire badge]

sex for feeling good is just degenercy, slaneesh would be proud

[charred bronze]

Am I a chaos cultist now, chat?

[brittle sierra]

intimacy is required in humans to be happy

[pine shell]

Sure but it isn't equivalent to therapy. Plenty of sex addicts for instance. Or just plainly people who have terrible mental health but have a lot of sex

[charred bronze]

I think that's why orcka used quotes.

[brittle sierra]

I didn't say that it was effective at making them better

but sex workers essnetially fill in that slot that is missing in soo many people's lives

[final temple]

sex workers are also cheaper than therapists.

[brittle sierra]

yes, therapy is a more healthy and solution based method to help people with mental problems of things like lonliness and self esteem

but it is also much more expensive, and depending on where you live, inexesible

[limber cradle]

Therapy? In my America? I think not.

[dire badge]

yeah but its for degenerates? Like its not healthy at all for the self worth

[limber cradle]

Therapy or a hooker?

[pine shell]

Sure it's more expensive but paying for sex doesn't help anyone at all. I'm not saying I am against sex work but it doesn't provide much "value" to the consumer lol

[charred bronze]

I think there's a whole spectrum of needs fulfilled by sex work that aren't therapy, but I hear your point

[dire badge]

hooker

[brittle sierra]

I know it is artificial, but you underestimate human psychology in self worth

[pine shell]

Self worth? What kind of message are you sending your sub-concious saying you are only worthy of intimacy when you are paying for it?
Sounds like it'd produce the opposite effect if anything

[brittle sierra]

when I interviewed sex workers, what was interesting is that half of their work involved counseling their clients

[brittle sierra]

just because it doesn't make sense to you, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to the clients

just being touched, skin to skin, is something very rare these days

[final temple]

which makes me wonder… I don’t recall any 40k stories involving genuine sex workers. there are courtesans in the lore and more than one story where a callidus poses as one. but outside of Ian Watson’s deliciously depraved ideas I don’t recall sex workers being genuine characters. do you?

[brittle sierra]

and people don't realize how important it is until they have to experience the lack of it for long peroids of time

[pine shell]

Fair enough, but I guess I'd like to see actual qualtiative studies showing whether procuring sex works helps mental health

[dire badge]

yeah but if you cna fulfill the need for intimacy by paying money then you wont be motivated to be in a relationship where it owuld be alot healthier

[charred bronze]

I'm guessing you experience touch and intimacy on a regular basis.

An appalling number of people don't get to.

I wouldn't underestimate the value of sex work as an industry. Especially the kind that doesn't happen on street corners or strip clubs.

[bronze glade]

prob a bit of a touchy subject lol

[pine shell]

To be clear I am all for legalizing sex work. I am just skeptical whether it actually helps people who consume it or whether it actual perpetuates their situation. Like I said we need actual research on the topic to have something more conclusive. I'll go ahead and research the topic now

[charred bronze]

Fun anecdote: I used to read tarot for fun, and I was curious so I showed up for a want ad to one of those 900 lines, mostly out of sheer curiosity; I never really considered taking the job.

The #1 thing I learned is that whole industry satisfied loneliness. Same with the old phone sex lines, and strip clubs too.

I've known dancers and they make almost all their real money from consistent clients who are just scrabbling after some kind of human connection

[dire badge]

actually that reminds me of lgbtq+ characters in the setting. Therei snt alot where its a focus or a point of the story. Becuase they said the writers idndt have any expeirence with htat or knew how to write it. There are mentions of characters being gay but not alot of stories and such. Which I kinda respect that they dont write baout a subject they have no clue on. Cus obviousoly it would turn out bad

[charred bronze]

Yeah, it's a complicated knot to untie. Plenty of lonely people are lonely because they don't know how to or just can't forge solid human connections

[dire badge]

my tw ocents, im all for more freeodms like legalizing sex work. Theo nly issue is if its legal it's more likely that ppl become groomed into it or coherced.

[final temple]

It’s wild that a franchise with some of the cheesiest plots has so much consideration. respectable indeed

[pine shell]

Looks like there isn't any serious research on the topic for obvious reasons.

[final temple]

wdym there is no serious research?

[charred bronze]

I think it's the opposite. With legitimacy and respect you can set up legal frameworks to prevent those abuses

[final temple]

there is. but it’s not necessarily US based.

[pine shell]

There is more research on the side of sex workers, not on consumers of it.

[charred bronze]

Not saying grooming and exploitation would stop, mind you. That's naive

But you can establish clearer effective channels for people to get help

[final temple]

there is. but it usually gets drowned out by the assertions of conservative pundits about the negative impact which in turn makes people hesitant. look at countries like sweden and norway.

[pine shell]

You're welcome to DM me links if you find some

[final temple]

heck, the current climate in sweden has turned one of the sexually more liberal countries into a growing movement of fake outrage.

that’s gonna fuel generations of sociologists careers

[signal nebula]

Everything in society is exploitation of some kind

[pine shell]

Even your relationships with family, friend, SO?

[signal nebula]

I would say those are not societal

That's familial

[charred bronze]

In a heirarchical society that's always true. The details, in terms of who, how, and how much, matter a very great deal.

[pine shell]

Your SO is hopefully not literal family.

And usually friends are not family either

[signal nebula]

Lol they are not blood related to me know, but they very much are my family

[pine shell]

OK well, idk what to tell you, friends and SO are all part of "society" afaik

[signal nebula]

They live in society, sure, but they are not part of the structure of exploitation that society subsists on

Well, in their work I guess they are, but aren't we all.

[pine shell]

They aren't?
So who is? Everyone has a family, friends, SO, etc.

[signal nebula]

What's your argument here?

That society is not exploitative?

[pine shell]

I am saying you can point to structures of exploitation without making sweeping generalizations about all of society at large

If everything is exploitation nothing is. It's diluting your argument imo

[charred bronze]

They can be. It's all layers of whatever the system you're in is. The concept of what a family unit even is differs from society to society. The biggest differences being apparent in smaller indigenous cultures with wholly different social organizations. If you ever get the opportunity to study anthropology I highly recommend it

[signal nebula]

This is true

[final temple]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/372625120_Exporting_Sexkopslagen_Sweden_Sex_Work_and_the_Moral_Stakes_of_Externalizing_Feminist_Policy

[signal nebula]

I guess the more eloquent way of saying is, we are all exploited under capitalism

[final temple]

Never thought I would post legitimate papers on this server xD

[signal nebula]

Brilliant you did tho

[pine shell]

I read the abstract. I am not sure if this paper points at the well being of consumers of sex work? At least it doesn't seem to say it does

[final temple]

it points at the opposite. that criminalizing clients does not protect them OR the sex workers.

part of that is the societal pressure and the self-perception.

[pine shell]

OK, but I am not sure that is the same as showing consumers of sex work have their well-being improved by consuming it.

Showing that criminialization hurts them doesn't show consuming it helps them

And again I am pro-legalization

[final temple]

well, sex work in sweden is legal. consuming sex work is t.

[pine shell]

OK... I'll ask again - is there research showing that people who haven't consumed sex work, but then began consuming it, saw an improvement in well-being? Ideally with a control group
If sex work in legal in Sweden such research should be feasible to do, at the very least

[charred bronze]

I think it's a difficult thing to study. The motives and needs of clients vary so much. From a guy who just wants temporary release to someone isolated and disabled who craves intimacy that is otherwise difficult to achieve via normal social means.

[final temple]

yes the paper goes into the motivations of clients despite the risk of prosecution because of the perceived benefits that are not solely transactional sex. I pointed at sweden because the society itself is quite liberal about consenting sexual encounters.

[pine shell]

Perceived benefits are not the same as showing well-being. Heroin addicts buy heroin despite the risk. That doesn't mean heroin is good for them.

[cursive zinc]

I'm 2 hours late to this, but this is the shining beacon, the emperor of the lightly throne

[final temple]

we are not talking about sex addicts or thrill seekers, tho.

well. not majorly. I am sure that is a minor factor for some.

[pine shell]

No, but the point is that perception of the user is not the same as actual well-being markers.

[final temple]

wouldn’t you agree that these well-being markers are established by the psychology of intimacy and consenting sex? if that is the case and we see similar reports between intimate partners and clients of sex work we can establish the validity of the service.

[jaunty sail]

i bully veterans and whenever i get an ammo box or see one on the floor i just start nabbing bazookas without remorse

screw my teammates

i want to play with bazooka

[final temple]

that’s a lotta boom

[jaunty sail]

OPEN FAIREEE

[pine shell]

I am legitimately not sure what you mean here.

[jaunty sail]

quiet honestly im surprised this chat has so much discussion about class

[bronze glade]

just another reason i don't take field improv

[jaunty sail]

where in actuallity reality factually class is all about w + m1

[jaunty sail]

thankfully there are others

[bronze glade]

suckers mostly

[jaunty sail]

nah

the best

kings

[bronze glade]

why would i enable

douchebaggery in my teammates

[jaunty sail]

#veteran-class lost your way pal

look

found your home

🫵

[bronze glade]

i've prob spent more time playing HIV than you have, pal

[jaunty sail]

doubt but ok

you see

im a crackhead irl

so i already beat you automatically

[bronze glade]

oh watch out, we got a badass over here

[jaunty sail]

thats right

hide your women

[low harbor]

checked rashad vs 10 mauler, HC + HV is a little bit faster than HV alone, though this is somewhat complicated by 2 things:
for consistency sake, I didn't take any keystone in tests and enemies are stationary (max density possible, least variation from enemy slotting)

1. BM makes it so ur weakspot kills can actually cleave through mauler's carapace helmet to hit multiple enemies
2. crit weakspot is very close to killing mauler from full hp
   the result is that, if hyperV was active at any moment (or if adrenaline frenzy was active), crit weakspot could kill up to 4 maulers in 1 attack
   but outside that, hypercrit wins by a small margin with rampage active, and quite noticeably when rampage is not active

HV only

HC + HV

both samples had 2 critical attacks

the big saving grace for HV only was at the end where 1 single crit atk killed 4 maulers thanks to the previous mauler kill giving a bit of overkill dmg

but otherwise HC + HV is noticeably more consistent and u see kills more evenly spread out

[bronze glade]

not sure how helpful this test is if they're all clipping into one another....

[low harbor]

I also tested with enemies active and found the enemy slot variation to introduce a ton of RNG into the mix

[bronze glade]

fair

[low harbor]

because ur crit chance fluctuates, and crit is basically instakill up to 4 maulers (as to how many u actually get to hit, that's a bit RNG due to enemy slotting using surround since meat grinder is solo)

but across 10+ trials for both HC+HV and HV, HC+HV was winning by maybe 4~5% on avg?

some trials I get better slot and crit RNG and BM just instakills a group of maulers

some trials I get bad slot RNG and miss swings from having to dodge repeated overheads from maulers clipping inside each other

ofc this is all assuming rampage active

if rampage not active then HC+HV wins no competition

lol

I did a brief trial with shivs as well (active enemies) since they don't have BM
however the Heavy1 having 2 dmg instances also adds a bit of RNG into this (sometimes u hit 2 maulers, sometimes u hit only 1)

and shivs are much more crit RNG than rashad is

TLDR
with rampage active, the difference is really small between having HC and not having HC (on top of having HV) vs human elites

without rampage active, both combined is better

[eager reef]

i've decided that scum is the easiest class to do well on

[brittle sierra]

no thats psyker

[eager reef]

i only get pyskers with brain dmaage

so i disaagree

[ripe seal]

Messed around with the double barrel more, ignoring blasting both barrels at once and playing it more like a 3 round bursts does so much more

[bronze glade]

yeah both barrels isn't a good idea most of the time

[brittle sierra]

Don't you mean

Three barrel shotgun? 😈

[ripe seal]

Shooting it 1 barrel at a time flows better, the extra shot makes the reload downtime not feel as bad, and you can get a bunch of single shots out on around the time it takes to get a big barrel blast and still be able to kill elites fine

[bronze glade]

the only time i use both barrels is for mauler one shots

[dire badge]

is a tertium welcome talent really ogod or jkust like okay

[bronze glade]

decent

[brittle sierra]

What about shivs? 🤔

[ripe seal]

15% free damage on melee hits seems more than nice

[bronze glade]

well if it's rampage or melee build

you'll take it

if it's a desperado build

you probably won't

[low harbor]

pretty much same conclusions:
with rampage active, not a huge difference though hC pulls ahead very slightly, still crit RNG dependent
without rampage active, hC + hV is better than hV alone

[brittle sierra]

what about HC alone?

[north crow]

I just use HV on melee builds, HC on hybrid

desperado is for the sissies

[ripe seal]

depending on your loadout, I could see a desperado build taking it with something like the crowbar, chain weapon, or maybe even combat axe as a way to help rip through crushers if your main gun isn't good against htem

[north crow]

or just special crushers twice with shiv

cuz that is the fastest way you'll kill em on with desp

or use combat knife

[low harbor]

I think if u have enough dmg bonus (like adrenaline), ur crits just 1 tap mauler with rampage active, so hC doesn't do that much there
however without rampage, hC obviously pulls ahead

[brittle sierra]

no rampage

hc or hv+hc?

[charred bronze]

This is what my anecdotal experience reflects as well. (With mk VII taxe)

[dire badge]

okay lads rate the build. its stimpack jockie build. for corruption on goop and gas. But I also would like to spam stim pack for explosives and my fent gun. I thought of bringing sample collector but the regain only starts after the explosion but then my stim is already, ready. Is this a good approach or shouldi build stronger stim with smaple collector?

[low harbor]

prob both?

tho I think it depends

like, if u run desperado

and use shiv for carapace dmg

[dire badge]

so if im bringing hv instead of hv i hsould go something like 25% weakspot dmg?

I mean insteado f hc

still bring hv

[low harbor]

then neither matter that much because

1. ur only gonna care abt crusher ttk with this (gun for literally everything else)
2. vs crusher boogaloo u don't get many low hp enemies to get hyperV value
3. hypercrit doesn't work on crusher

at that point crit chance & generalist dmg bonuses prob do more

[final temple]

awesome testing. much appreciated!

[low harbor]

wdym if u bring hv instead of hv

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

[dire badge]

i mean if i bring hv instead of hc I should go something like the 25% weakspot talent?

[low harbor]

oh wait

uh

depends on ur weapon and use case

[dire badge]

fent gun and shivs

shivs is for everything

[low harbor]

I'm guessing that's rampage/crate

[wooden delta]

Strugglign to enjoy bonesaw... bad for groups + i keep getting so many assists but no kills v_v

[dire badge]

oh yeah sorry rampage full rampage talents

[low harbor]

if u have like, insane rampage uptime, u can prob do with no hypercrit (and run 25% weakspot instead)

[dire badge]

yeah i bring cd stim too for moreprampage

cd stim plus sstr

[low harbor]

by insane I mean like

4 stacks of dependency + CD rate stim

but that's usually not worth running

[north crow]

don't think CDR stimm is worth with rampage

I much prefer AS one for consistency

[dire badge]

nah i bring adren

[north crow]

with 4 stacks, it won't make much difference

[low harbor]

I'm not sure if people actually understand that dependency is CD rate, not CD reduction

[north crow]

they both are yea

they don't seem to stack additative tho

I was stopwatching stimm supply yday with all the combos

[bronze glade]

CDR 🙂‍↕️

[north crow]

a couple seconds off 30s is less valuable than having 20% AS + stun immune during rampage downime

for me at least

I don't even care for SE

much rather have HP, I don't die to getting hit, I die to bursters

and fuckin pox

[low harbor]

rampage downtime
base 30s
with 3 stack dependency 23.08s
with 4 stack dependency 21.43s
with CD rate stim 20s
with CD rate stim (melee kill, full uptime) 15s

4 stack dependency is really minor value

[wooden delta]

How r u meant to use the bonesaw

[dire badge]

so str and as or just as would you prefer with rmapage

[low harbor]

I do CD rate (melee kill) and lv2 atk speed (+8%)

[dire badge]

okay

[low harbor]

result is a 51s recharge stim

which usually comes back between rampage uses

[dire badge]

yeah prob best with rmpg then. if u do atk spd and str its overkill

but yeah with rampage and shivs i shoudl take weakspot dmg over h hyper critical becuase i already have hyper violence right

[low harbor]

if u have really good rampage uptime, go for it

tho I would choose to grab all 3 if I can

[tawny gyro]

new cosmetics for hivescum when??

[livid raven]

never hopefully

[north plank]

never probably

[tawny gyro]

:(

[north crow]

@low harbor also, do you have the formula for melee AS, because I certainly don't swing 18% slower losing SE worth of 9 pops, but more like 10%

which is only noticable with rampage down really

[low harbor]

attack animation speed modified attack combo chain time values

+10% atk animation speed doesn't actually make u atk 10% faster

[north crow]

yea

my point

[low harbor]

as for actual number stuff, u gotta code dive

[north crow]

when I stopwatched light spamming 20x, 30x times with or without, it was pretty consistently 10% difference

which I do notice

[low harbor]

diff attacks have diff combo chain time values

[north crow]

but only matters with rampage down

ah

so its weapon dependant

[low harbor]

yea thought this was common knowledge

obv diff attacks have diff values

[north crow]

I mean

the common sense would dictate 18% being 18% really

but I never expected that from fatshark amth

[low harbor]

game's been out 3 years surely anyone interested in game stats would know this by now

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1075782743285301308/1448329868491100252/supra.gif

[north crow]

you'd be surprised

[half nova]

What’s the benefit to melee hivescum? Open ended question

[bronze glade]

high mobility, does a shit ton of damage

reasonable durability

[trim wind]

One of the best skill voice lines on fem anarchist in the game

[tender marten]

JUST ANOTHER DAY IN THE BIG T

[north crow]

not having to abuse an obviously hillariously overtuned weapon + talent combo to work?

there is no point in meleeing on anyone really

get a taunt ogryn and everyone else just shoot

[main wagon]

#psyker-class message Good timing lol

[half nova]

What durability? I’m not being sarcastic, I just don’t know every perk and talent by name and stuff

[bronze glade]

rampage and hive city brawler

gives what

45% damage reduction?

it's quite a bit

[north crow]

20% DR from rampage, 15-20% TDR from chem dep, 20% DR when you have no stam

[half nova]

Anyways, I wanted to mention I really loved the voicework done for the class

[main wagon]

I love the outlaws

[bronze glade]

other way around for hive city brawler

[tender marten]

yea its 20% DR with max stam, 20% damage with no stam

and they yoyo back and forth

on a grade

[bronze glade]

but yeah i forgot about chem dep

also gives up to 20% tdr

[tender marten]

you also have that one talent up the tree

10% TDR

with ranged damage

whatever that was called

and then 16% DR in your stim

[half nova]

Other than dual uzis what other weapon is good for the desparado talent?

[bronze glade]

lol so many sources of potential dr/tdr

[bronze glade]

SAP, IAGs, bistol, even double barrel

[half nova]

SAP? IAG?

[bronze glade]

shredder pistol

infantry autogun

[half nova]

Any mark specifically?

[north crow]

vraks

pretty much his best desperado gun

[half nova]

Any blessings for that?

[north crow]

or fire frenzy over DS

[limber cradle]

You dump ammo on the Vraks iirc, and DS>FF imo

It only loses 2 rounds in a mag and I think 20 off the top

[bronze glade]

dumping ammo feels so wrong

even if i know it's prob ideal on vraks

[north crow]

very possible, I don't desperado

it also makes next to no difference

[fallen void]

the fuck is sainted

[trim wind]

Mod

Pretend red weapon for vt2 veterans

[north crow]

a mod for ql500 weapons

yea it's just for us old VT2 nerds

[faint fossil]

man first time i see someone hate hivescum and hate me just for playing scum

like it got to the point that i was the only one missing a wound cause dude kept shooting burster in front of me, bro had a medstim and decided to use it on the full health psyker

https://tenor.com/view/the-big-leagues-big-leagues-the-small-leagues-leagues-small-gif-17101938055669010251

[dim moth]

2 bullets in a mag and 20 reserves

[mighty belfry]

Forge's Bellow is quite literally vet shout without golden toughness.

[limber cradle]

Yeah thats what I said

[main wagon]

It also pops twice!

[limber cradle]

Seeing someone in psyker chat call scum a cheese class feels absolutely insane

[mighty belfry]

Which, forced stagger on most bosses is great.

[limber cradle]

Tbh I don't actually like to use the shout on rampage

[little laurel]

why unyeilding?

[mighty belfry]

And because it procs when you leave rampage, if you're hit by a dog or mutant, it'll actually free you.

[half nova]

What’s forge’s bellow? What does it do?

[mighty belfry]

Or even a chaos spawn grab.

[faint fossil]

yea i've started to leave shout out of my rampage

try to see what is a better use of the point

same with the stim pack that explodes on use

[main wagon]

I didn't know it caused enough stagger to cause a cspawn drop

Nutty

[faint fossil]

kinda useless

[mighty belfry]

It's really not useless.

[main wagon]

I've been slaving Fatmangus because holy shit it's the ultimate backpack build

[mighty belfry]

Yeah I can see why one wouldn't take it.

[faint fossil]

no but for me at least it doesn't really make a big difference

[mighty belfry]

But it's actually really good for utility purposes.

[faint fossil]

it still has it uses as a mini tox mine

so it has that going for it

[limber cradle]

Defo not useless tbh

[main wagon]

Newbie friend goes down: "Aw I'm down"

[pop stealth]
"no you're not"

[faint fossil]

ok misspoke

[mighty belfry]

Oh no the mine is virtually useless imho

Forge shout, I think it's very underrated for what it does.

[little laurel]

For bone saw...would you ever dump FInesse?

[mighty belfry]

Absolutely not.

Never dump finesse.

[limber cradle]

The tox mine for box is a literally ??? tier talent

[faint fossil]

i meant the tox pack mine

not the actual stim pack

i have 3 stim pack builds

[mighty belfry]

Oh I thought you were saying the shout was useless though from the context there.

[faint fossil]

nah shout isn't useless

[little laurel]

For shredder pistol. Is dump mobility, or collateral?

[faint fossil]

its pretty solid

i use shout on my crowbar build

for rampage with shivs i kill a horde so fast that i don't really need it

[mighty belfry]

It's become my favorite build for havoc if I'll be real

I wish I recorded it.

[faint fossil]

but i need that bit of breathing room for crowbar

[mighty belfry]

But I saved a run by stopping a bugged ritual before it could activate lmao

[tranquil fjord]

whats a good vraks iag build for scum

[limber cradle]

The same as a desp dap build

But you don't use Sticky Hands

[mighty belfry]

Though I did modify it a bit to make it more movement heavy.

[limber cradle]

What do you run thats not normal for desp dap?

[mighty belfry]

...what

[limber cradle]

Go into psyker chat and scroll up a little lmfao

[mighty belfry]

like, I will say, scum is kinda cheesy but that is literally the pot calling the kettle black

[limber cradle]

Yeah I agree

Scum is a little cheesy but psyker has been the cheddar goblin for like

Ages atp

[faint fossil]

idk man who cares about that, i play ogryn and i would like a new mark

not even a new weapon

pls obese shark

a new mark

[limber cradle]

Og defo needs like

At least one more melee and ranged

Ideally 2

[little laurel]

For Shredder Pistols, would you ever dump collateral?

[limber cradle]

Tbh I want a GG+Shield ranged

[latent belfry]

Don't you only dump collat on ogryn stubbers because it stops enemies from being knocked down

[main wagon]

I don't even want to imagine how horrific it would be to code given the fact that Arby shield + maul was a completely separate weapon, but Ogryn should generally be able to shield with almost everything they've got. Would be cool if you could "toggle" the shield and it would grey out N/A weapons in your loadout

Almost

Because shit, folks post figurines from the tabletop of Ogryn wielding GG + Shield or Power Maul + Shield all the time

[limber cradle]

This guy is just cool

Yeah, Bullgryns

[main wagon]

I also feel bad that shield's ideal moveset is just ignoring light attacks altogether

[latent belfry]

I'd fw that, imagine if you had battlemaul and you constantly had the shield out but swapped between the two weapons

[limber cradle]

Regrettably I don't know the answer to this cause I dont use SAP but I don't want it getting lost

[main wagon]

Because it makes MY hand hurt constantly spamming H1, I can only imagine what it's like on the older Ogryn unc gamers

[little laurel]

Thank you! I feel that since it is a fast fire weapon....doesnt the stagger add up? so 60% and 80% maybe doesnt matter...but I don't know. so I am asking people more knowledgable than me.

[limber cradle]

Tbh

Go check the numbers in inspect weapon

Either roll 2 or do the math

Im assuming you can or do dump collat on it tho

[astral canyon]

In terms of cheese amount scum is a grocery store while psyker is the cheese caves

[little laurel]

There is the numbers.... I failed math class, so what math do you need?

[main wagon]

Scum can generally get away with dumping mobility on all weapons, especially ranged because Vulture's gives you all the dodging you could need

[limber cradle]

I agree with this

[limber cradle]

Pal I don't do math, sorry lmfao

Thats why I told you to

[little laurel]

Same... my brain too small.... So I cannot!

[limber cradle]

Nah, brain just ain't built for it

We're all good at different things.

[main wagon]

One dodge versus your "on ability horde decimator" having more devastation is a pretty easy trade for me in my head at least

[latent belfry]

If you're genuinely agonizing over it and need to use something now you can never go wrong with just dumping mobility and calling it a day

Only weapon I wouldn't do it on with is the flamer

[main wagon]

https://tenor.com/view/puss-in-boots-math-i-never-counted-the-last-wish-gif-27436638

[limber cradle]

I dump collat on daps tbh

[little laurel]

I have dumped mobility on this one, however I wonder if collateral is something that doesnt matter as well. Or does it really make a difference.

[main wagon]

Even Cole is a self admitted vibe checker lol

[latent belfry]

I've already gotten used to playing with low mobility weapons

[little laurel]

As right now...I even fail damnation, I cannot just take a weapon into a mission, and go...oh ya, this is defo the way

[latent belfry]

So maybe that's why

[main wagon]

Sometimes you cba to do nerd math, and thankfully we have a lot of folks that have done it already

[latent belfry]

I don't care about being fast

[limber cradle]

Love going fast

Movement is the best stat in every game

[little laurel]

So I dont mind rolling 2...however my feelings will be vastly different for what is the actual feeling later on in higher difficulties, much less havok

[latent belfry]

Movement is a lot more than speed in this game

[main wagon]

That's a funny way to spell "DoT damage"

[little laurel]

which I want to strive for, as a way to better myself.

[limber cradle]

Im, I like big dodges too lmfao

[little laurel]

So for these numbers, is the smaller one....at 0%? or is the smaller one, the max at 60%, and the higher one, the max at 80%?

[latent belfry]

As long as I dodge the attack idc

[heavy patio]

are these solid max stats for autopistols?

[latent belfry]

Imo no but they're not gonna be like horrible

[main wagon]

If you have literally nothing else it's fine but you should shoot for all 80's and a single 60 in either mobility or collat

Hilariously it's the discussion going on rn if you scroll up a lil lol

[little laurel]

why collat?

[main wagon]

Some people are crazy ig

[little laurel]

na, mine was for the shredder.

[main wagon]

Ohh my b

[little laurel]

And no one knows the answer....on which was better for dump XD

[main wagon]

So much "autopistol" my brain cooked off

New shredder mark when?

[little laurel]

So good luck on figuring out a dump stat....

[little laurel]

Naa.....when they fixing the mastery for the shredder!!!

[limber cradle]

Ime collat dump on daps just doesn't change anything(mobi dump doesn't either tho)

[latent belfry]

Daps are special shooters so makes sense

[heavy patio]

ill try to roll for that then

what do mobility and collat effect exactly?

[limber cradle]

Well they also just shoot so fast that it doesn't matter

[livid raven]

you can click on the stat to check

[heavy patio]

ah ty

[latent belfry]

I only run daps on my rampage build ATM so mostly I snipe specials w em

[livid raven]

mobility is sprint speed, dodge count and distance

collat is suppression and stagger

[upbeat gyro]

This good to go once i have more plaststeel?

Using it on desperado vraks inf auto build for leveling

[livid raven]

yeah

[limber cradle]

Id swap crit to unyielding personally but otherwise yeah

[latent belfry]

Shivs have sooooo much crit it feels unreal

Really apparent if you use coated weapons w it

[little laurel]

Why unyeilding on the IAG?

is it actually good against bosses?

[main wagon]

The animation of killing things with shivs is so good

[limber cradle]

Yes/it's also better into reapers and bulwarks like that

[main wagon]

That lil bit of hitstop you get everytime one of your sideways stabs just embeds itself in a heretic shoulder blade is [chefs kiss]

[marsh plover]

hibescums best horde melee?

[limber cradle]

CAxe/TAxe/HSword

Shivs are also just spiritually a blender so

[dim moth]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1241878072605540508/1324137193421148211/media-iv-text.gif

[limber cradle]

I miss having a cat tbh

[main trellis]

nah; 60 mobility & you'll be golden

[main trellis]

no need for riposte

your crit chance is high enough

[marsh plover]

whats the main diff between Caxe and Taxe?

[limber cradle]

Speed

[marsh plover]

thats it?

[limber cradle]

I mean you'll use more of the TAxes moveset

CAxe is a M1 go brrrt type weapon

[drifting heron]

Tac axe crits more, is faster, and does less singletarget damage

Also staggers better

[limber cradle]

Aye

[drifting heron]

And it clears a bit better due to better angles and faster attacks

[marsh plover]

ty

[heavy patio]

are defences usually the best dump for melee due to hive scum's dodging nature?

and if so what for shivs?

[dim moth]

not what defenses affects

defenses affects the stamina costs for pushes and blocking

scum still has to push just like everyone else

[limber cradle]

Mobi

[heavy patio]

ah

[heavy patio]

is mobi just a negligible stat then even on the dodging class?

[limber cradle]

Almost always

I dump collat instead of Mobi on DAPs and like, Defense instead of Mobi on Crowbar but i think that's it?

[heavy patio]

alright

ty

[upbeat gyro]

Im lvl 20 though without melee crit nodes

All into ranged so i can rely 95%+ on Vraks carrying

But yeah, perhaps ill return for more solid advise once i hit that lvl 30

Hmm.. Float Like Butterfly is 20% crit for both ranged and melee. Thought it was melee only being on that side. Picking that next

[low harbor]

combat axe is higher single target dmg & better mixed horde stagger
tac axe is more agile & better single target stagger

[flat lotus]

super good

vraks iag is a single target melter

i swap between it and dual autos

[heavy patio]

i keep getting crowbars with 60% first target 😭

literally like the second most important crowbar stat

probably

[livid raven]

i think it's the best dps of all despacito guns against bosses

[flat lotus]

i prefer dual autos

better room clearer and i like the mobility

[livid raven]

they are good but they are quite inferior against bosses

[low harbor]

it's the most important

[flat lotus]

but vraks iag is insane against bosses

[abstract inlet]

taxe only has better horde clear if you don't take rampage

defence is an important stat for haxe, right?

[livid raven]

chaxe?

[abstract inlet]

yes

sry

[livid raven]

the good mark doesn't have defense as a stat

actually they all don't

[livid raven]

sorry i was thinking of combat axe

i hate these abbreviations

yeah i think mobility is the dump stat there

[abstract inlet]

I hope we get a heavy axe for maximum haxe

[livid raven]

so true

what about a heavy chainaxe

[abstract inlet]

combat axe may one shot, but I would like to decapitate the boss

[abstract inlet]

this too, let me annihilate a horde with push attack

[marsh plover]

perk on needle gun?

[abstract inlet]

stripped down, run gun

[marsh plover]

perks not blessing

[abstract inlet]

unyielding

and reload speed?

carapace doesn't reach breakpoint apparently

[final temple]

yep. unyielding and reload

[iron patrol]

god i love my fent pistol

evil ass crusher exuding shart aura? death in 3 seconds

[final temple]

I rather inspect the floor than PA! xD

https://tenor.com/view/fluffy-gabe-iglesias-gabriel-iglesias-i-dont-wanna-dont-wanna-gif-17563254

[ripe seal]

i find myself not really using my secondary too much unless i'm running a super gun focused build like desperado, but with the needle gun I always end up being super loose on ammo

how is needle gun on desperado now that they changed that?

[jaunty sail]

guuys guys guys

what the fuck

a danger sign on baja blast

hive scum is OSHA compliant?!?!?

what kind of lore unfriendliness this is

[final temple]

you have to understand: the casing is third party sourced xD

[ripe seal]

i assumed the casing for the grenade was ripped out of something that was OSHA compliant, thus making the thing they stole it from not OSHA compliant anymore

[final temple]

and it’s likely not OSHA but the local overseers are forced by the mechanicus to apply ‘the sacred sigil of intent’

https://tenor.com/view/monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-open-holy-hand-grenade-gif-16402008

[jaunty sail]

i imagine if greandes would have mastery skins of admech

a tin can FACTORY LIVERY

blessed by omnissiah

jar of baja

[astral canyon]

ok but imagine admech boom bringer

that would unironically be peak

[iron patrol]

hadron rounded up the vomit nades and forced them all to scribble it on there for the sake of protocols, they are probably chalking it upto working with the inquisition

[heavy patio]

ive only been playing hive scum for 1 day and it has quickly become my favourite class

[zenith pagoda]

Enjoy the magdumping until pickpocket nerf hammer

[orchid timber]

does stim supply put your stim on full cooldown?

[bronze glade]

if the stimm is consumed

[dim moth]

technically yes but actually no

it makes your stimm cooldown 15 seconds shorter since it starts the cooldown instantly

instead of having to wait for the stimm to end

[cloud moon]

dumb question but I don't play hivescum and ran into a player running autopistols and desperado - is the only thing theyre good at horde clear? that's what this player claimed

[candid flint]

, nope. dumb take

[cloud moon]

thanks, and how is that build against ranged elites like tox bombers and snipers

[candid flint]

destroys them

[astral canyon]

those are specialists and theyre pretty much made of paper

[candid flint]

too far away? luckily you have all the movement speed in the world + ranged damage immunity

[astral canyon]

the only problem for that kind of build really is crushers/bulwarks and you have 2 blitz options and a melee slot to equip stuff to deal with those

[cloud moon]

Thanks, he was complaining about us in voice chat to kill ranged specials but we had 2 zealots and a psyker

Wasn’t sure if he gaslighting or not

[astral canyon]

nah just skill issue

[mighty belfry]

what class was this player

[astral canyon]

he was the scum from what i understood

[mighty belfry]

wait wait wait

the ranged scum

[astral canyon]

yep

[mighty belfry]

is complaining about people not dealing with ranged specialists

[astral canyon]

yeppers

[mighty belfry]

Holy shit.

[astral canyon]

as i said

[astral canyon]

.

[mighty belfry]

That is a severe skill issue.

Like I would have just told them to shut their goofy ass up for even complaining with that broken ass build.

[cloud moon]

Hive scum

I tried to nicely explain that they were the best for it

[mighty belfry]

What like

Is this Havoc?

[cloud moon]

No just auric

I’m still learning

[mighty belfry]

Don't listen to that player.

[cloud moon]

👍

[mighty belfry]

Like bluntly, they're just shit at the game and complaining because of their own skill issue.

They have one of the best means of dealing with ranged threats in the entire game.

[cloud moon]

Thanks

[astral canyon]

hang on

[cloud moon]

What exactly does hive scum do best? A more mobile veteran?

[astral canyon]

why the fuck were they even complaining about ranged enemies

mf YOURE IMMUNE TO THEM

[cloud moon]

I know they suffer against carapace

[mighty belfry]

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING

THAT'S THE ONE THING THAT SETUP IS SUPPOSED TO EXCEL AGAINST LMAO

[cloud moon]

Sorry I don’t know the class I can only explain my pov

[astral canyon]

dual autos suffer vs carapace

[mighty belfry]

Let alone Vulture's Dodge giving you outright immunity to melee too.

[astral canyon]

they have plenty of other methods of fucking up crushers

[cloud moon]

Ok so if I’m playing with a hive scum player and want to help them cover their weaknesses what should I focus on

[mighty belfry]

It's auric. Don't worry about it.

[astral canyon]

if youre playing vet just make sure to bring field improv

[mighty belfry]

It is not that serious that you gotta be catering your setup to other players.

[cloud moon]

I was on psyker

[astral canyon]

dont really have to care that much about what other players are running then

[cloud moon]

alright, thanks y'all

[candid flint]

it is very nice of you to care

but it doesnt matter. not in auric. id only worry about that stuff in havoc

that said, literally the only thing you could meanginfully do is just stim the hivescum, because they are likely running their own custom stim, which prevents them from picking up stims found in the level

especially if it is a medstim

if theyve gone down

[cloud moon]

oh ive done that before

ill try to do it more thanks

[candid flint]

then you are better and nicer than 80% of players

[cloud moon]

its a team game

winning is better when we all make it to the end yeah?

[final temple]

yeah.

[trim wind]

best thing you can do is give narcan to mankar

[tropic crag]

it is a team game but like 95% of the team work is mostly just making sure all murder hobos are pointed in the correct direction

like you work as a team the same way gimli and legolas did, by just being badasses in proximity of eachother

so to be the best team player you can in a tide game you just improve yourself, become the badass you're meant to be

[final temple]

Well I would say the number one team relevant skill is situational awareness. Don’t push too far. Don’t fall behind too far. Don’t take ammo if somebody else needs it. Consider stimming your local Scum. Share grenades with your vet. Feed your Ogryn. Don’t lick the Smyker. Stuff like that.

[woeful hill]

With how darktide evolved it's becoming less and less of a team game

Classes can easily become self sufficient and cover every weakness

And playing with teammates has major downsides in higher content

Slot system not being able to dodge teammate attacks and audio not working so special will hit the entire team

[livid raven]

what do you mean with slot system not being able to dodge teammate attacks

[tropic crag]

i feel like all classes in both vt2 and darktide have been able to do this since the start, theres just more options now

[woeful hill]

Literally that

If an attack is aimed at teammate you can't get dodge immunity to it

[livid raven]

a melee attack?

[candid flint]

idk some classes in vt2 have no ranged

[woeful hill]

Ranged and melee

[tropic crag]

i like this feature tbh, it makes me laugh every time i eat a net or overhead not meant for me

[livid raven]

because a melee attack that is targeting a teammate can never hit you

unless it's an aoe

[woeful hill]

My point

Exactly

[livid raven]

an aoe can't be dodged

[woeful hill]

It can

I did research

Only if its aimed at you

[tropic crag]

i have so...so many hours on slayer... trust me i was normally top of the special kills every match for years without ever using the throwing axes (i hated them) slayers could cover the "weakness" more than fine

[woeful hill]

Can you get dodge immunity to it

You can easily spot dodge a crusher overhead

[livid raven]

Kuli says the crusher overhead still needs you to be clear

[woeful hill]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1386213529895436388/4848221.MP4?ex=695bf234&is=695aa0b4&hm=4b98c948f308125533078a47436ae5dd409bfd4eaeb9f9a1c82ac482f673fb14&

I think that was taken out of context

[tropic crag]

i wish discord videos didn't just randomly break on my pc, sometimes i'll only get audio for them

[woeful hill]

Yeah idk why that happens

Yeah idk why that happens

Mobile double send monent

[tropic crag]

[woeful hill]

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/G1hHQ6oWAAAiPl8.gif