veteran-class

[dark shadow]

Keep going back to the recon lasgun

[scarlet thistle]

Never been a problem for me honestly.

[unreal nova]

But is to be all, here, you got your scoped long range delete target gun thing.

[scarlet thistle]

There's been exceedingly few times where there's something I could not hit with the regular lasgun.

[dark shadow]

Something about the aim on console just throws me off. Maybe I just gotta git gud

[unreal nova]

The aim assist.

[dark shadow]

Always seems like the sight is off

[unreal nova]

You can feel it if you pull left trigger.

[dark shadow]

Lasers will go everywhere but the dot

[unreal nova]

Use motion dot as well.

That's just las though.

Tend to spread more.

[dark shadow]

Tried the las pistol and the hip fire aim assist was godly

[unreal nova]

They both are.

But ads is more obvious.

[faint beacon]

@tall torrent Doing a pub havoc this is probably going to go terribly

[scarlet thistle]

First pub havoc went okay.

[unreal nova]

Like, try this, take any gun with ads in the training place. Stand infront of anything. Ads.

You will spin into them. Crushers are the most obvious and jumpscare.

Basically, just aim around target, ads and it's gonna hit.

[strange epoch]

is this a good jack of all trades lasgun build

[scarlet thistle]

Poxburster jumpscare usually for me.

[bitter turtle]

which lasgun

[strange epoch]

VII

[unreal nova]

Normal. Bonus if your teammate gets kill credit since they decide to just shoot it last second anyway as you fall to your death..

[bitter turtle]

you probably want to pick up rending strikes given that the flak damage on ilas is terrible

also

you can drop 5% crit and grenadier if you only picked that for more nades

demo team is better

if you can only pick 1

and it frees up a point

[fierce lily]

you do not want rending strikes

also no shocktrooper for a las gun build?

[strange epoch]

ik its bad thats why i didnt take it

[fierce lily]

what's your melee

and is this recon lasgun?

[strange epoch]

i use mk 7 lasrifle

melee is shovel

[grand perch]

yes you do on ilas

[fierce lily]

is it the one that can deal with carapace?

[paper trellis]

god i've gotten a lot of suicidal groups tonight

[fierce lily]

ah I see I can't post images.

[fierce lily]

for which enemy

I just ran no rending no + flak perk and without crits I am almost 1 shotting bruisers(edit, I had killzone active the first test not the 2nd.), with +25% flak or my combat ability active I am 1 shotting them on the head

gunners get 2 shot

anything I am not quite 1 shotting I run +25 flak and I will

[fierce lily]

rending didn't push me to that breakpoint

but a crit headshot 1 shots gunners, shotgunners and everything with less HP with +25% flak perk and no rending

competitive urg will however bring me to the 1 shot break on a dreg bruiser head on a non crit without needing rending strikes

[peak tree]

Anyone have a specific build for going after damnnation special assassination? Have not tried it yet and don't ahve any premade groups, so it's all pubs.

[fierce lily]

do you mean the karnak twins?

[peak tree]

yup

[fierce lily]

biggest thing is have a solid melee

[peak tree]

I typically run a dueling sword, not sure how well that flies in the final room.

[fierce lily]

very well

[rigid pilot]

As long as you can deal with elite clumps like maulers/ragers you should be fine

[fierce lily]

and if you need self sustain VoC and on your toes

[pastel yew]

day 104 of trying to find my second +3 stamina curio

[fierce lily]

I've got like 6

I only have 1 17% toughness curio though

[tiny haven]

Have you talked to sire melk?

[pastel yew]

I've rolled 15k melk tokens

and have gotten

not a single one

nor has one been in his regular store

[fierce lily]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=9dbe7669-23ef-4914-88e7-00534931aed0 from the bit of testing I did this is what I'd run

[tiny haven]

Keep gambling

[pastel yew]

https://tenor.com/view/digging-for-diamonds-never-give-up-gamble-keep-gambling-trash-gif-4704373444474043443

at this point let me just buy it for like 10k plasteel

please fatshark

[pastel yew]

are pubs even running it still?

[fierce lily]

yes actually

[pastel yew]

I guess theres a lot of new players

[narrow frost]

if you need help with the Hard Mode, I can help

[peak tree]

rarely play one with bots on any given mission

[pastel yew]

I still need to beat the ultra hard mode at some point but

I got loads of other penances to do first

[tiny haven]

I have sent a text but my shit internet won’t send it

99% gamblers quit at sire melks just before their about to hit their god roll

[peak tree]

I'd definnitely be game. Some is for the achievement, some is to work on my skills.

[narrow frost]

Are you level 30?

[peak tree]

yup.

[narrow frost]

I'll need your fatshark code, social then press E

[fierce lily]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/build-editor?id=9dbe771f-267e-43e0-9cd6-ea4f9670d928

[tiny haven]

Funny snake lady offering help to this noble guardsman

Shitass internet

[fierce lily]

can do any gun you have as long as it works

but this is a reliable boltgun

[bitter turtle]

i dont think about bp anymore in havoc

maybe if you play plasma since it can still actually 1tap things

[fierce lily]

havoc is an entirely different can of worms for builds

[pastel yew]

boltgun build without exec stance

smh my head

think of the fun you could be having!

[narrow frost]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-40k-psyker-explode-perils-gif-10586129510772702813

[fierce lily]

those are a ton of fun though for this build the ranged is less important

so I slapped on a boltgun because

it just works

[tiny haven]

Why did bro explode is he stupid?

He didn’t quell his peril

[somber axle]

Memes aside it's just really, really good for Boltgun in a way very few other weapons benefit LOL

[pastel yew]

yeah I think aside from the boltgun the only like meta weapon I use it with is the recon lasgun

[tiny haven]

The “I want whatever I’m hitting to die” weapon genre my favourite

[pastel yew]

its primary benefit is jumping mid weapons out of their tier

[narrow frost]

@peak tree yeah I do this alot

[peak tree]

:p so I see.

I appreciate the education.

[pastel yew]

https://tenor.com/view/gohan-dragon-ball-super-dragon-ball-shocked-stare-gif-17989128285575337595

[peak tree]

I know there's a huge skill cap and I've been hoping to be able to see some of it as pub isn't always that telling.

[pastel yew]

you're literally cyber bullying the karnak twins

[tiny haven]

The who twins?

[peak tree]

They solo'd the shit out of the entire event.

[narrow frost]

Just hang out in this discord and you'll see some of my friends and other skilled players

[peak tree]

It's definitely been a very useful discord, no doubt.

[narrow frost]

just keep learning everyday

[peak tree]

yarr. This is taking over a couple of my other games, enjoying trying to work on the skill side.

I'm still very new but digging going nose deep.

[narrow frost]

#1 thing to focus on, positioning

[peak tree]

100%

[narrow frost]

know where enemies spawn, how to keep away from dangerous ones, and know weapon mobility

[peak tree]

Also I'm curious, what kept the gas from damaging you much? I got eaten up by it so instantly just trying to get to the fans.

it didnt seem toa ffect you.

[narrow frost]

there is a time where it doesnt do damage

it gives you time to swap sides

[peak tree]

ahh.

Maybe I ran out early then.

[narrow frost]

I think so

[peak tree]

I assume when it's a bit higher it's active.

[narrow frost]

Correct

[peak tree]

i saw the next spot open up and went for it and just got ganked

I dont think the lower level ones have you swap to more than one spot during that phase.

so wasnt expecting it.

saw it open and went.

[narrow frost]

Probably doesnt help now, but the red lights on the walls will flash when you swap sides

and you get sound cues

[peak tree]

So wait for the red lights to run for it

[narrow frost]

and yes, the hard mode has a faster and longer gas phase

[peak tree]

so the bell toll hard mode is a step above typical damnnation as well, yeah?

[narrow frost]

Correct

The difficulties are

Uprising

Malice

Heresy

Damnation

and then Damnation+/Hardmode/secret bell skip

[peak tree]

It's definitely nice for farming, which i was aware of, though didn't look into how that worked.

[narrow frost]

It's not worth farming, not because of the material drops. But the loss of actual mission experince you get from playing normally

no need to "farm" in this game

just play the difficulty you want and you'll get materials as a reward

[peak tree]

ahh.

I didn't actually pay any attention to what the rewards for that run were,

[narrow frost]

not much

but its a fast mission

[peak tree]

aye. Which is definitely nice, on the whole.

[tiny haven]

The best mission to grind is rolling steel

Cuz the music is straight fire

[peak tree]

:p

and is arguably quick

Thats a rough one on pub. People want to run back to fight hoards when they could be doing tasks while they catch up even when we wouldnt be otherwise overrun

so keeps running out of time

not playing togther well when boss is up

[tiny haven]

Khorne whispering to keep slaughtering the horde cuz that shit is fun

[peak tree]

I hate the number of times I've not had support and been thrown off the side for insta death. I need to find more central places to stand during that.

I mean, fair.

[narrow frost]

back agaisnt a wall/box

[peak tree]

makes sense.

[narrow frost]

the boss fight area as a collection of boxes

[peak tree]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9dbe877c-2a8f-4092-a3ea-2af2e2d21991/vet-basic?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button

This is what I'm running at the moment. Curios aren't maxed but working on those as I find them.

[lost bay]

Hello everyone! I'm new here and was trying to get better at understanding the game, I don't understand which stat to dump for the weapons, and which blessings and perks are the best for each weapon either. Right now I wanted to try out the power sword but don't know what to dump or what blessings and perks go with it and which mark is better. Can anyone bring some light for me? 😂😂 hope everyone is well!

[peak tree]

Typically if there's a mobility stat, that is dump stat.

[narrow frost]

Check pins

Path has done a good job of showing dump stats and blessing/perk combos

[frank ledge]

Helbores dump stability

Plasma is weird

[peak tree]

plasma is indeed weird.

[frank ledge]

Ogryn tends to dump collateral on range
Warp resistance for psykers
defende on some melee

[lost bay]

I've been seeing so much of back and forth with this being at 80 cuz its a must for bobbing and weaving out but others say nah, so I just gave up and went to go watch family guy hahaha

[narrow frost]

simply

the difference between 60-80 is so minimal you wont notice

its just min-maxing

more mobilty in this case

[peak tree]

also worth noting, just ebcause a stat isn't listed, doesn't mean it doesnt have it, it's just kinda a baseline that doesn't go higher.

[lost bay]

But wouldn't you want max mobility since the game of staying alive matters towards how you move, dodge and slide and weave away from things?

[narrow frost]

80 mobility

60

[lost bay]

Ohhhhh I seee nowwww

[narrow frost]

These are my dueling swords

you can see weapon stats

in the inspect tab

[lost bay]

So mobility is the actual stat that doesn't matter

Okay

[narrow frost]

hover over these to see stats

[lost bay]

This was debunked so fast 😂😂

Thank you so much

How come others say mobility is a must have then? Do they see a different perspective even though the data is signifying that stats is what you need to dump?

[terse idol]

differen't opinions

you don't reallllyy need mobility

[lost bay]

Ahhh

It's all coming together now for me hahaha

[tall torrent]

80% mobility is mostly for sprint speed

[narrow frost]

Its also playstyle

I have a damage dump knife on psyker cause I want to be speed

[tall torrent]

2% dodge distance is really small

[lost bay]

Where do I go for this, sorry don't use much of discord

[tall torrent]

U can actually dump penetration if u go uncanny strike

[narrow frost]

I dont

[lost bay]

But at the end of the day you getting to the enemy 2 or 4 secs later matter? Cuz you will just be engaging them before your team but I don't see the bonus of sprinting fast when there's hordes and enemies since you'll just be dodging and weaving and pushing. I don't see where sprinting comes into play there

[peak tree]

One of the important things to realize too is that the community talks a lot about 'break points,' and some weapons are much more heavily dependent on them than others for some roles. This is where you need enough stats to kill a given enemy in one less strike, or such

So gaining a tiny bit of additional speed, but you get to kill a ogryn in one less swing? that does add up

you do want to be able to out run enemies, but we get that elsewhere, like sprinting efficiency and such

[lost bay]

Ohhh okay I see now

[peak tree]

There are some folks who have done some very in depth statistical analysis for that, as luckily the game itself actually gives us a lot of that but they take it the rest of the way. Which means I havne't done any of the math myself :p but there are some good resources here that have checked the specific mathmatical optimal choices for certain things.

there are certainly many things left to style and preference or at least argument.

but some break points are reachable and matter.

they say hellbore the dump stat is stability because it is so damn stable already that you'd rather have the other things.

Plasma is a bit more open to discussion so there is a couple stats that are taken in a certain balance, but isnt a full dump stat.

at least that being the general community consensus.

[lost bay]

So for the power sword it would be the mobility stat to be the dump stat, and so what are go to perks and blessings on it?

[peak tree]

Question first, are you level 30? still leveling?

[lost bay]

Yea, I just got to level 30

[peak tree]

okeydokey, that helps a bit. I mostly ask just because working towards 30 and doing all pubs feels a bit different as I think while leveling you have to be a bit more ready to handle anything as you can't always trust your group to do so.

which we kinda all kinda want to be able to do everything but more distinct class roles start to form.

[lost bay]

Ahh okay, yeah I get you on that. That's true

[peak tree]

I'll leave it to others to suggest the specific power sword build as I'm just going off what the community has chosen generally for being more optimal.

[lost bay]

No problem! I appreciate your input like the others did for me, im new so everyone's been helpful

[peak tree]

My own veteran play in pubs, which I'm only just starting to poke at auric as I'm pretty new myself, focuses on being able to take down elites and manage hoards with melee, and use ranged weapons for monstrosities so others may use different builds based on their demands.

It's a pretty lovely community.

My previous main game community was toxic AF so it's been ahrd to go back after dark tide :p

[lost bay]

Hahahaa that's rough, people giving takes and helping understand makes the game more playable in my opinion, that's why I see the positive in helping people out, in this case I'm ass at so I have much to learn hahaha

[peak tree]

I've been deep diving youtube pretty hard for a couple weeks and just trying to get my reps. This game goes surprisingly deep on the skill level.

its nice to ahve so much 'end game' compared to the leveling up

[jaunty sphinx]

just an auric mael but man was it fun

rashad combat axe my beloved

[narrow frost]

Were you able to find the pins?

sorry was in match

[lost bay]

No worries!

quick melee weapon builds: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14ODLXP5sISxrcvXpaH1rXYTjDzHf0Ac243SZwqqg17M/edit?usp=sharing

I think it was this one that you were talking about in the pins right?

I couldn't find the guy you named

Path

[narrow frost]

oops

he keeps chaning his name

[terse idol]

it's still path

[narrow frost]

path.exe discord name

but correct

[lost bay]

Ohh hahaha my bad

[narrow frost]

this link is his most updated version

[terse idol]

ALSO ME AS I

[lost bay]

Thank you again for your guy's help, I really appreciate it

[terse idol]

Never dump damage 😌

[tall torrent]

Dump cleave target

[thorn lark]

Unless it's a flamer

[unreal nova]

But, but, but, my 3 extra damage per tick.

Or something. If it's like the inferno.

[thorn lark]

Yeah

[lost bay]

Thank you!

[jaunty sphinx]

im at 3/5 for ASS

send me your energy

[wanton dawn]

Gl champ

[grand perch]

May the ass be with you

[thin stone]

Agents of secret service?

ASS?

[covert moat]

Auric Storm Survivor

[grand perch]

https://tenor.com/view/avgn-ass-angry-video-game-nerd-gif-1329667451521630776

[ornate ivy]

Armourbane on hellbore or No respite?

ofc its going to be paired with surgical

[grand perch]

Neither, weight of fire

[ornate ivy]

Can't 2 shot crusher w/ headshots 😦

shooting too fast to get surgical procs w/ shock deadshot

[frank ether]

I wanna help people with ASS but I don't trust myself with not barreling them off the map lmao

[ornate ivy]

whats the shovel meta 🤔

[pseudo fiber]

Mk1 decimator uncanny
Mk3/7 uncanny thrust

[ornate ivy]

ty!

[teal canyon]

What's up with a flamer?

[thorn lark]

you can dump the dmg modifier

it does not affect the dots

[tame lodge]

Weight of Fire

Unless you're using the Mk5

Then it's

Uh

Hmmm

Bane or Infernus or whatever

Oh yeah Hotshot

[silent sorrel]

Best primary and secondary weapon as a veteran?

[pseudo fiber]

It depends

Plasma gun
Power sword

[pallid jetty]

^never listen to him

they are good, but not together

[tough tiger]

Devil's claw, shredder autopistol

[pallid jetty]

bruh

[cerulean badger]

helbore, knife

[pallid jetty]

ok, dont listen to anyone, just pick whatever you like yourself

[cerulean badger]

lmao

[pseudo fiber]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/960914817160450078/1290279746835447859/caption-33.gif

[pallid jetty]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1061451419942670356/1316677557114109962/watermark.gif

[cerulean badger]

for real though. everything works, just play around and find what you like

[pseudo fiber]

I just picked the general best two

[pallid jetty]

best for armour*

[pseudo fiber]

Fair

Rashad combat axe
Dueling sword 4

Bolter with exe stance
Revolver (not in havoc tho)
Bolt pistol with shredders
Recon with shock trooper

Etc etc etc etc

[frozen jungle]

Question when it says Get ≥1 [+toughness] (blessing) curio.

That means i preferably need to get curios with toughness as their blessing and not as perk yes?

[vital wren]

correct

[frozen jungle]

Im abit confused with Get ≤1 [+3 stamina] curio.

That means its abit more preference?

Im so dumb i get the table now

[pallid jetty]

wtf are these <1 [+3] something-something

[balmy flume]

It means Vet can run 0 Stamina Blessing Curios

At max 1

[frozen jungle]

From what i understood its good but not necessarily BiS

[pallid jetty]

skilled guys take 2 toughness curios at least

better 3

no wound or health cause you just dont take damage

[frozen jungle]

And just make health and stamina a perks?

[bitter turtle]

a single +3 stamina is very good in general

as for perks

just run 5%toughness/5%health/12% stamina/4% CDR for now

[oblique spindle]

Lately I've decided to avoid all the head-hurting numbers and stuff by just running my Recon Lasgun. Stats don't matter if everything is dead before it reaches you

[bitter turtle]

pick 3 out of those 4

[oblique spindle]

In seriousness though, I've got two Toughness Regens that seem to be a major asset

[bitter turtle]

toughness regen perk is not good

it only affects coherency regen

[teal canyon]

There is no best, but there is worst.
Dueling sword is probably superior choice for combat, knife for utility. Everything else is just not on the same lvl.
Guns? Lasguns and vigilant autoguns are worse options. Everything else could be devastating depending on skill and build and team composition.

[bitter turtle]

so the stuff you get from kills (confirmed kill, o4b, etc) dont synergize

which is vet's primary way to regain toughness

[pallid jetty]

for perks on curios you definitely need 20% gunner res on every single one

[bitter turtle]

no you don't

its debatable if its even worth it in havoc, nevermind normal games

[oblique spindle]

I thought it was just for passive regen

[teal canyon]

As vet you dont need damage resistantces

As zealot - maybe

[pallid jetty]

whatever, do what you want

[bitter turtle]

the damage resistance lines are mostly trash

gunner resist would be good if it worked on the mob shooters

(it doesn't)

sniper resist is something okay in auric if you want the extra safety against a sniper i guess

[oblique spindle]

My brain's foggy but I think I have my Curios set for 2 +30% Toughness Regen, 3 max Ally revive speed, the rest for ability regen, stamina regen and stamina efficiency

[teal canyon]

As vet, your actual nemesis is lone trashmob playing spy from tf2

[oblique spindle]

I've also only been playing for like a week so idek what stuff like Cleave means, lol. I've got a lot to learn

[bitter turtle]

toughness regen speed is really meh just cause you don't really rely on coherency regen on vet

ally revive speed is ok, but im not a fan just because it only works on downs

not rescues, not nets, not ledges

[teal canyon]

Didn't know that. Now its even worse in my eyes

[oblique spindle]

Coherency doesn't even help much since I keep getting matched with people who just run through and ignore all enemies (usually except the Ogryn, they have my back), leaving me by myself lol

[bitter turtle]

well, then toughness regen speed is even worse for you

it only affects coherency regen and the delay before it kicks in afte ryou get out of combat with melee enemies

[teal canyon]

Toughness+ stamina regen+ ability regen

[oblique spindle]

Yeah, I didn't realize it was only for coherency. Thanks, I'll swap those out for something else later

[teal canyon]

Shout spam is strong af

[bitter turtle]

#psyker-class message

i agree with this list

its also applicable to vet

probably move up stamina regen to A for vet because psyker has much better stamina regen delay than vet at base

[oblique spindle]

Between those four, that's the one I have to deal with the most. I don't think that Zealot has figured out that his master plan of "run ahead into a horde of enemies and elites swinging wildly" is gonna work

Usually this happens on mid-to-higher difficulties, for some reason.

[oblique spindle]

Thx, I'll try that out

If I'm not mistaken, Block Efficiency affects the amount of stamina drained when blocking a melee attack?

[bitter turtle]

yes

it also improves your revives as well

because you cannot be interrupted during a revive by melee attacks as long as you have stamina

because you automatically block during that state

[oblique spindle]

Oh, cool, didn't know that. Thanks!

And just to be clear, revives doesn't just mean downs, correct?

[bitter turtle]

yes

in this case im talking about all forms

since they all have you automatically block attacks during that state

it wont make you any faster

but

it helps stop you from being interrupted

and of course, its somewhat useful in normal combat as well

[pseudo fiber]

Revive speed isn't on that list

Or am I blind?

[oblique spindle]

I usually try to have the area clear before reviving, but with enough of that I might not have to wait for everything to be dead

[bitter turtle]

you're not blind, they forgot it

either way i think it deserves C at best

if it worked for more than literally only downs i would rate it more highly but

its like

feelsbad when it does literally nothing for ledges especially

[oblique spindle]

They might wanna rename it "Down-up Speed" unless they intend to make it matter for the others too

[loud belfry]

they gotta buff it. i find it super useful because im always the fastest to try to revive people

[bitter turtle]

they have far more egregious tooltips to fix

that they have not fixed

[oblique spindle]

I'm just waiting for them to make it so hovering over a stat gives a brief explanation of what it means/does

Like wtf is "Finesse"

I've had to Google almost everything about this game's stats to understand anything 😭

[bitter turtle]

weakpoint and critical damage

and on weapons, it also affects attackspeed

[unreal nova]

You can inspect weapon to check that.

[bitter turtle]

fwiw

you always want finesse on any weapon that has it at 80

[unreal nova]

But yeah, they could have placed them in a more obvious place.

[oblique spindle]

Ah, thanks

Cause not once have I thought about doing the Inspect thing. I'm used to that only being used for admiring the weapon in whatever game I'm in

[bitter turtle]

it tells you the specific effects of each stat

and the projected damage for each armor type you will inflict with that weapon

but if youw ant to know how shitty their tooltips are

[oblique spindle]

Thx y'all, really helping a lot. I've just been kinda trying different weapons and upgrades to see what performs best for me without really understanding the stats of each beyond ammo capacity and damage to enemy types lol

[unreal nova]

It's shitty that on a controller, it's a nightmare to scroll through the different stats. Like the devs never tested it. XD

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/424c14aa654f90fc0fb8ba5c2f3aa709.png

these two do not do the same thing

you know

even though it literally says

toughness repleneshment on both

inspiring presence is like toughness regen speed on perks, only affections coherency regen (therefore trash)

tunnel vision affects all toughness gaining effects, like o4b, confirmed kill, etc

[unreal nova]

Also, on a controller, it's like there's a hidden 6th stat.

[oblique spindle]

This game's been out for like two years now right?

[unreal nova]

Cos if you flip around it in a specific way, your cursor thing dissappears.

[oblique spindle]

What

[bitter turtle]

FS claimed they like the tooltips being vague and unexplainned because it stops people from minmaxing apparently

[oblique spindle]

No way

[bitter turtle]

expect it to never get fixed

[unreal nova]

The highlight?

[oblique spindle]

No I meant "what? No way"

[unreal nova]

Could just be a bug, but it's not like it does anything.

[oblique spindle]

They....what

[unreal nova]

There's also bugs where you get Keyboard 'commands' while using controller as well.

What's Z and C on a controller?

Hurp.

[oblique spindle]

This game is impressive. It manages to function fairly well and yet nobody is allowed to understand anything.

[unreal nova]

Is just FS.

The best way to know shit is to test it out yourself, lul.

Like how some talents on Psyker tree still does not work and such.

[bitter turtle]

that wasnt the worst

for the longest time exhilirating takedown

which is supposed to reduce the amount of toughness damage you take

actually increased the toughness damage you take

so like, you took more damage

[unreal nova]

Lmao.

[bitter turtle]

literally would be better if it did nothing in that regard

[unreal nova]

Peak quality coding there.

[pseudo fiber]

Probably a poorly named variable

[unreal nova]

I question the people game devs hire as QA now.

[pseudo fiber]

"Toughness_reduction" or soemthing

[bitter turtle]

theres also just a lot of things that are not written

[pseudo fiber]

And then if you put 33 oops it increases it

[bitter turtle]

focus target refunds a stack on kill

[unreal nova]

Then again, considering I tried working, is bad. Like, you gotta kiss up to the devs so hard or you lose your job.

[bitter turtle]

underhanding grenades doesn't break stealth

etc

[unreal nova]

And for a real gamer, some bugs to me is more impt that minor clipping.

I'll just say this.

The LoL card game? In a test ver, you could have up to 10x of the same card.

Including the direct damage one.

You could kill someone with 7 of them.

It was considered of low importance compared to options menu not closing properly if you press another tab.

[bitter turtle]

tbf

that just sounds like typical tcg bullshit

[unreal nova]

Nope.

You should be hard capped to having 4 of the same card.

[bitter turtle]

i meant being able to burn someone down in one turn

[unreal nova]

Yes, 4 wouldn't insta gib.

10 WILL.

[bitter turtle]

i know

but i mean

burning someone down in 1 turn sounds like typical tcg bullshit

like yugioh

even hearthstone had dumb decks like that

[unreal nova]

I got fired after they found out I rocked DOTA, lul.

As in, talked about it.

During break time, I would add.

But anyway, why am I even doing QA when the bugs a gamer would give a shit about is of LOW importance over some small cosmetic thing?

But yeah, I wonder which black company tests certain games.

Since it's all about the game looking pretty instead of functioning right nowadays.

[bitter turtle]

just outsource bug testing and solutions to the playerbase like bethesda

[unreal nova]

Part that.

[thorn lark]

also, developing content

[paper trellis]

And writing the scripts

[manic echo]

infantry autogun

my beloved

[unreal nova]

Well, everything.

[manic echo]

this thing so fun to use

[unreal nova]

We provide the baseline, the fans make everything else.

And fix everything, yes.

[paper trellis]

Helps that it’s legitimately strong

[unreal nova]

Till they can't, and it's a dookshow.

[bitter turtle]

What gun is illegitimately strong

[thorn lark]

ds4?

[unreal nova]

Plasma?

[thorn lark]

oh gun

plasma?

[bitter turtle]

What's illegitimate about it

[paper trellis]

The fire staff

[unreal nova]

Eh, can't make it do what ppl can.

It barely does anything for me.

Even when I try and panic edge.

[bitter turtle]

I got it

[paper trellis]

Panic edge?

[thorn lark]

it works without consecrating it and you don't really nead to invest in talents

[bitter turtle]

Limbsplitter bugged helbore bayonet was illegitimately strong

[unreal nova]

99% peril constantly.

So DOOM DOOM DOOM DOOM DOOM.

[paper trellis]

Lmao fair

[bitter turtle]

I'm glad i figured it out

[unreal nova]

The noise makes me panic.

[bitter turtle]

None of you were any help

[thorn lark]

it was fun tho

[unreal nova]

Since I take bubble now.

[thorn lark]

handcannon applying to melee weapons

[bitter turtle]

I was hoping hot shot would be a replacement for bromentum bug

And it was not

[paper trellis]

“Fuck your armor I’m British”

[bitter turtle]

[unreal nova]

And yes, I can go 0-99 then quell to 60 and back to 99 and the crusher is still trying to crush me.

Yet other ppl would have melted said crusher, so I just don't get it.

[bitter turtle]

Just play scriers gaze

Sit at 100 and never pop

[unreal nova]

I mean, I can get the thing where I just eat the corruption.

[paper trellis]

I may be out of spells but I’m not out of shells

[unreal nova]

But it's more, no damage so I don't get it.

[bitter turtle]

Staff scriers works now too

[unreal nova]

I'm better off just stroking my sword and slapping it.

[manic echo]

ya that thing melt elite and special

except mosnte

[bitter turtle]

Since there's the talent where you literally can't pop while scriers is active

[unreal nova]

Before anyone asks, I mean the force swords/GS.

It will take a few goes, but I know it'll die before I get RSI.

But yeah, staff good for stagger and is what I mostly use it for.

Also to charge CDR for bubble.

[paper trellis]

You know what bugs me? Why is there no anti armor shotgun. Sure you can put bleed on the double barrel, but that’s just bleed. Whole point of flechettes is to punch through body armor

[manic echo]

altho

[unreal nova]

I think it was supposed to be the slug.

[manic echo]

using infantry autogun make me sad

bc when I look at the other alternative

recon lasgun is basically infantry autogun but better

virtually no recoil, shit ton of ammo both in magazine and reserve

[paper trellis]

Kinda? Recon is so good because it stacks dots really quickly

[manic echo]

the dmg is not that different I think

[paper trellis]

And because of vet’s lasgun ammo perk

[manic echo]

yeah also that

[paper trellis]

Idk I enjoy rocking a raking fire autogun when in stealth or flanking

[manic echo]

I use autogun bc it's more fun and alot satisfying to use than recon

[paper trellis]

Admittedly I do also have two maxed out recons with different specs

[manic echo]

altho i'm also wonder if I should use brace gun instead

[paper trellis]

Brauto is an entirely different playstyle

[manic echo]

I see alot of zealot use and yeah I get it that it's close range wep

infantry autogun is kinda same but alot of recoil I think

[unreal nova]

Unbind the brace button.

[paper trellis]

Stripped down is pretty solid for zealots, tho admittedly it’s largely unnecessary

[unreal nova]

Just hipfire.

The brace animation takes forever for nothing imo.

[manic echo]

maybe I should get crit chance instead...?

[paper trellis]

Honestly still trying to figure out that blessing, it does a lot more than the description says it does

[manic echo]

I can't remember base crit rate

think it's 10-15%

[charred pulsar]

Hey silly question, does different weapons have diffirent block values?

Like can the knife tank the same amout as an axe?

Or is all the same

[manic echo]

tbh I don't think there any different except different melee give you different max stamina I think

and also dodge count

and it not like you will able to block overhead attack either xd

like here the power sword have like 5 blocks of stamina

now I change to combat axe and now I have 7 block of stamina

so I think different melee just make you run longer/ block more attack?

except some attack like overhead that I don't think you can even block that

heavy sword have 5 max dodges and 6 stamina block

I said 5 max dodges but in reality you can still dodge after that but it just way less distant and I think it make you slower too

[storm badge]

Whats the move for Sapper Shovel blessings these days? Guessing Thrust and Uncanny/Decimator?

[manic echo]

yeah think it's uncanny + decimator

[storm badge]

Oh interesting, you wouldn't take Thrust for the special?

[manic echo]

um

tbh I don't really use shovel since power sword exist

but that just what I pick

if I want to kill special I use recon/infantry autogun

and carapace I just use power sword and instant 1 tap weakspot

[storm badge]

fair enough

[manic echo]

also I kinda find it awkward to use shoven to smack enemy xd

[storm badge]

Recon/Chainsword is my typical pick, but the PS has always felt clunky to me personally.

[manic echo]

unless you using the switch mode and just charge attack it

[vale wraith]

I mainly use Decimator + Uncanny

[manic echo]

also power sword have this so

I can clear both hoard and elite with ease

[unreal nova]

Just wish it hit harder without being charged up at times.

[storm badge]

the Chainsword? Agreed

[charred pulsar]

What other blessing u use on it?

[charred pulsar]

Thanks, just checked myself too got a 2 more block from knife to axe guess I get t oblock a lil more

[manic echo]

here is my shitty power sword

it's not max upgrade yet

but it's still better than nothing

[manic echo]

DON'T BLOCK OVERHEAD

JUST DODGE

[charred pulsar]

Yeah, thats common sense

[manic echo]

gud

I was worry you gonna try block overhead when you ask the question

xdddd

[pseudo fiber]

Shovel is goated

[hasty grove]

Been progressing nicely

[mossy oasis]

Oh that is a proper cadian helmet on the first pic, where did you get that from?

[hasty grove]

You can buy it from the commissary

[urban spoke]

Hello my fellow veterans

[mossy oasis]

mm noted

[urban spoke]

waves in level 4 baby veteran player

[pseudo fiber]

Hello

[mossy oasis]

Go on trooper, what is it you need?

[pseudo fiber]

It's like 50k ordos

[mossy oasis]

cheap

[hasty grove]

https://tenor.com/view/hulk-taco-smile-gif-15840669

[urban spoke]

Just greeting my comrades

[mossy oasis]

Good. have some tacos and relax, it wont be relaxing for long.

[hasty grove]

(I’ve just hit level 30 literally 5 minutes ago but ignore that)

[sleek garden]

the mk3 flip shovel is a slap machine

It's kinda goofy

It has 4 lights and all but one are flat sided slaps

The third in the chain is a sharp edge

[hasty grove]

Fellow Vets, was this Mutie kill as cool as it felt?

[mossy oasis]

Flip shovels are absolutely amazing, especially the NON GREEN one

always take the 24% rending blessing on it, because the special attack counts as two stacks for it

[sleek garden]

Should have revved the sword and hit him with the push attack

[mossy oasis]

meaning that on the first hit it triggers for the second, when the vet pulls out the shovel, plus 24% rending

[sleek garden]

does that not work on the green shovel

Because it also has that spike remove part

[mossy oasis]

yeah it does

just, the other one is better

[sleek garden]

Also you can chain the heavy spike with an unflipped overhead

[mossy oasis]

because of its moveset for hordeclear.

[viscid flax]

was good - u should try with a power hammer though

thats satisfying as fuk

[hasty grove]

B-b-b-b-b funny chainsword

[sleek garden]

Yeah... It's over for you ev

No upvotes

[mossy oasis]

in my opinion, but, play the green one if all you do is use specials with it, the overhead special is lets say, slightly better than the other one's, coming from the side.

[hasty grove]

I use the Chainsword and Catachan knife

[mossy oasis]

cadian normie above

[sleek garden]

I'm trying the green shovel with decimator

[viscid flax]

dont sleep on shovels, they are braindead horde clear as well

[hasty grove]

I use it on my Krieg loadout

[viscid flax]

and the special does oneshot muties/tager, etc with 2 blessings

[mossy oasis]

it would actually be more lore friendly to use a mace for the krieg loadout

not because krieg dont use shovels, but becaue they would use them for trench based warfare, or city siege scenarios

if its about bashing and killing lots of stuff it would probably be a trench mace.

[viscid flax]

real krieg use the limbs of their fallen brothers

[hasty grove]

I know, but I bought the shovel skin and wanna get use outta it 😭

[viscid flax]

to use as melee, build walls, light fires, etc

[hasty grove]

I imagine the way I use the shovel is lore friendly

I primarily use my bayonet for Melee and use the shovel as a backup/last resort

[viscid flax]

are you using the hellbore as well?

thats hardcore rpg, given it mostly sucks

[hasty grove]

Yes

[paper trellis]

That was clean.

[hasty grove]

I’m very fashion over function

I like to get into character when I play games lol

[mossy oasis]

hard disagree

[paper trellis]

Why would you only use shovel specials? The main moveset is great

[mossy oasis]

it oneshots reapers and barely uses ammo if you use the proper talents.

[paper trellis]

Shovels are strong

[mossy oasis]

well in like a krieg cosplay loadout you use it for hordeclear, and if you got the special then you use that for stuff like crushers or stuff

[urban spoke]

Lore?

[mossy oasis]

BUt

[urban spoke]

I heard lore

[mossy oasis]

if you run frag nades as your main option for hordeclear

[hasty grove]

How lore accurate are these?

Astra Militarum grunt

Krieg

Kasrkin

[mossy oasis]

then the shovels purpose is hordeclear as a secondary thing, in which case i would take the green mark.

[viscid flax]

there is 3-4 much much better weapons

u can make it work, but its not even B tier imho

[mossy oasis]

I mean, the first two are as spot on as fatshark allows with the cosmetics, the third one is not reallllyyy a kasrkin but its alright

[hasty grove]

Using something cus it’s good <<<< using it cus you think it’s neat

[viscid flax]

i used it a lot in the early DT days

[mossy oasis]

this is fantasy fairy magicland anyway

[sleek garden]

That's crazy

[urban spoke]

I came here to play Guardsmen barbie, damnit

[paper trellis]

I’m not sure a grunt would have all those honors

[urban spoke]

😭

[viscid flax]

the hellbore needs some love, u can make anything work in high difficulties

[hasty grove]

Fair enough, I’m gonna make it into a commander with VoC once I get the headset

[sleek garden]

we're veterans

[viscid flax]

but it makes the high diff even higher

[sleek garden]

did you forget

The seasoned

[hasty grove]

This as well ^

[paper trellis]

Look at the thing I was responding to

[sleek garden]

I did

[mossy oasis]

Those are not "honors", they are purity seals and they can, depends on your headcanon for what they did, hm.

[sleek garden]

Also everything in the store is hand me down I think

pretty sure everything is off a dead guy probably

[paper trellis]

Yeah, and most purity seals are earned. Only get to keep them if you survive

[mossy oasis]

a good way to fix the kasrkin is to give him leggings with pads. Kasrkin like, always use leggings with kneepads.

[hasty grove]

I have a pair but im not sure how well the colors mix

If I send a screenshot could I get feedback on it?

[hasty grove]

It’d make sense, my Veteran is one of the few who fought during the Siege of Cadia and lived

[viscid flax]

goin back to the hellbore talks: I remember the hellbore to be a beast, then sth happened... forgot what the change was

[hasty grove]

Helbore isnt bad

[viscid flax]

dmg vs carapace?

its not bad, but its not great

[hasty grove]

I just shoot everything in the head w Helbore and it works 🤷‍♀️

[viscid flax]

it comes down to how much targets come at you

[mossy oasis]

why do people think only things that can have insane carapace damage can be good

[hasty grove]

Thats why it has a bayonet

@mossy oasis how do these look?

[mossy oasis]

veteran in particular has a melee that can oneshot crushers (shovel) and two other tools that can also oneshot one or two crushers with a buttonpress (kraks)

or frags

[paper trellis]

Because helbore is a charge sniper. It better be able to take out the big boys

[viscid flax]

i respect the hellbore loyality

[mossy oasis]

certainlny better id sad

[hasty grove]

Kk

Ty!

[viscid flax]

but i wouldnt change plasma/bolters on high diffs for a hellbore

too old for that extra effort i guess

[hasty grove]

Using something just cus it’s good is hella lame imo

I choose my equipment purely based off vibes and make it work

[viscid flax]

if that works for you, cool

not arguing that

[oblique spindle]

Hell yeah

[paper trellis]

Congrats

[void gyro]

rate my bipstol...

[paper trellis]

Vaguely reminds me of a p90

[mossy oasis]

what

im sorry, gun guy here, literally

how

[paper trellis]

Boxy upper receiver. I did say vaguely for a reason

[mossy oasis]

But man, literally every gun in warhammer is "boxy"

[paper trellis]

I'm aware

[tough tiger]

Autoguns all remind me of ak

Bcuz curved mag

[stable shoal]

Space AK

[stable shoal]

Tactical axe ? Is it good, I’m quite new I’ve only used CHS, CHA, Dueling sword, and Combat Axe

[oblique spindle]

Finally maxxed out, too

[oblique spindle]

It's not bad imo

[void gyro]

its a rashad but it's all customized parts

[stable shoal]

Cry’s from 80 mobility

[stable shoal]

Had a feeling it might’ve been combat axe

[manic echo]

65% max ammo

💀

[oblique spindle]

Idk how good or bad the stats are but I honestly don't care much. It does what I need it do and does it well.

[stable shoal]

Valid, I have a combat axe with everything 80 but finesse and it still feels just as good as my other one that’s 80 finesse but 60 mobility

[oblique spindle]

Mine rip lol

[stable shoal]

It’s pretty balanced ngl

Probably feels just as good as mine

[tough tiger]

Tac axe is all up to personal taste, if u like knife then u will like tac axe. Otherwise you'll find it unsatisfying

Its a single target weapn but can cleave a little bit horizontally with brutal momentum

You're not clearing hordes faster than a mk6 knife but chopping heads off of everything does feel kinda cathartic

[hollow ibex]

tac axe is mostly for the memes

they're in a pretty bad state

[twin quartz]

Anyone down to play with a new player https://discord.com/channels/727074276724965407/1042858500205846528

[hollow ibex]

#vox-lfg-nasa

[grand perch]

youre not wrong but im deeply hurt

[hollow ibex]

well i'm all for buffing the tac axe 😦

[void gyro]

spinning around chopping heads off with rashad is peak

actually swinging your mouse around with the chops just feels so good

[manic echo]

finally

no longer suffer

[pastel pumice]

Good job

[manic echo]

do I have to reach same lvl as them?

or I can just join

[serene bough]

Can just join

The highest level you complete this week will be your personal level next week

[terse idol]

Combat axe does what tac axe does but better

IF you build the caxe properr

[junior needle]

The benefit of brutal also strongly depends on which variant you're using

One of them you purely want to light spam for every target due to the moveset, and that one doesn't benefit from brutal nearly as much

Another requires all heavies for clear, another needs push attacks or something

They're generally considered mediocre at best

[manic echo]

how do I get higher rank havoc

I just beat lvl 1 havoc but there no lvl 2 havoc?

[serene bough]

if its your own assignment you rank up after completion, if it's another's assignment you'll rank up after the weekly reset

[faint beacon]

The only thing Taxe has over Caxe is Knife mobility that’s it

[hollow ibex]

Such a dogshit system

[terse idol]

[hollow ibex]

my favorite part is that if you help someone in low havoc, but don't do any other havocs for the week

your havoc level gets dropped to low havocs

but if you just don't play havocs, your havoc level gets dropped by what, 3? edit: actually it's 1

so conceivably you could be 40

do a havoc 9

and then get dropped to havoc 9 unless you make up for it by playing winning a havoc 40 or something

whereas if you just don't play, you only go down 1 rank

devs must've been high on pox gas when they came up with this system

[serene bough]

i dislike how the system just incentivizes you to queue with someone who has a higher level and not bother with your own

why grind multiple levels if i can just join someone who's 15-20+ levels higher than me

[manic echo]

what does this mean

if I keep playing i will get demote?

[radiant chasm]

only if you lose/quit

[serene bough]

yeah, 3 failures leads to demotion

[hollow ibex]

Yeah that’s also dumb

Convoluted ass system that incentivizes all the wrong things

[manic echo]

would it still reward you with lvl 20+ havoc?

[serene bough]

whichever havoc assignment you completed with the highest level is what you're rewarded with

[stuck gorge]

It rewards you with your highest completion level

[manic echo]

so

I don't have to complete my own havoc?

[serene bough]

No, the most effective way to level havoc is to run other's higher level havocs

[manic echo]

lol then there no reason to lvl up from 1 to 20+ then

• doing 20+ mission just get to that lvl is kinda tedious

[serene bough]

Depending on your skill level you may eventually plateu, but nothing is stopping you from running someone elses havoc 40 and then completing all the progression

[serene bough]

yeah, it's kind of backwards

there's little point in leveling your own havoc unless you want to extent the content grind

[radiant chasm]

hosting basically guarantees you get into games tho

people want to join more than they want to host

and getting your personal rank up means you don't have to wait till the end of the week to get your rank boosted to your clearance

[manic echo]

oh so it still boost my level anyway even if I didn't complete my own mission?

[hasty grove]

Me and my BF’s veterans

[serene bough]

Two scenarios:

1. Level your own Havoc, progress +1 level on success, regress -1 after 3 failures
2. Run somebody else's Havoc, earn that level after the weekly reset (Sunday, 7pm EST)

[radiant chasm]

there is also a penance set to helps hosts clear havoc

which is needed for one of the armor pieces

[manic echo]

I don't mind waiting for a week

so I will go with second option xd

[serene bough]

furthermore, running other people's havoc counts progression towards both penances for the two armor pieces

personal completion + helping other's completion

[manic echo]

what does this even mean

there more gunner?

[mossy oasis]

Is the frag grenade upgrade worth it if i got spare points

[crisp oak]

Nah they replace poxwalkers

[urban spoke]

Not the Moebian 21st sob

[crisp oak]

With dudes wearing flak

[stoic thorn]

Groaners with flak

[crisp oak]

They stimmed too hard

[crisp oak]

Anyway just think of it as replacing poxwalkers with the bruiser moebian 6th dudes

[orchid hemlock]

http://youtube.com/post/UgkxnMYT7n4RAnIWwWkYLHlqJNyS0SZFpTN_?si=x-8kFVkwYXfJdbyP

Oh wow

I had to sit down for a minute for that

[pastel yew]

not sure it procs when you quit

I left a game with speedrunners and wasnt penalized at least

[manic echo]

good start

xD

[stable shoal]

I wish I could play havoc solo 😭 I know I’d have the worst time ever but I have no frends

[vital wren]

I made Havoc 3 last night after only 11 missions!

(Not 11 attempts, just did a ton of level 1/2s with other hosts.)

[sullen scarab]

What do you run with the DS4 blessings wise, Uncanny/Agile good?

[hollow ibex]

I do uncanny shred or uncanny thrust

Agile is a really good way to fuck up your muscle memory for other weapons lol

[sullen scarab]

true lmao

i'm already regretting putting it on

[paper trellis]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1152336510570483752/1318641802663690251/9138d9154648cc7a320413b5b4fe64e4.png?ex=67631060&is=6761bee0&hm=a1b65f96d5a534f19092456d0878e92aa70997db81dbd5b1b11061b4af6071ca&

[strange oxide]

dump stat on plasma gun?

[hollow ibex]

@tired egret

[strange oxide]

that's

oddly specific

why

[hollow ibex]

Check pinned guide for further details

But yeah it’s very specific

[strange oxide]

ok what if i got 69 charge 71 thermal

[last peak]

You won't be able to make 8 shots without overheating iirc, the 69/71 plasma gun can.

[strange oxide]

so in that case

i happened to get a 63 charge 77 thermal

that's better

right

[tall torrent]

Still usable

[tall torrent]

71 thermal can make 8 shots

[tall torrent]

Is worse

[strange oxide]

oh shit nvm

[tall torrent]

Because u don’t want thermal to go above the specific threshold that allows 8 shots

[strange oxide]

i got the apparent god roll

[tall torrent]

69% thermal vs 80% thermal does the same exact thing (8 shots)

80% thermal just wastes 11 stat points

[heavy rover]

Also, funny number

[gilded wraith]

Have you empowered it yet?

[strange oxide]

yes i did

[quasi tulip]

vet meta for havoc?

[narrow frost]

laz weapons voc with dueling sword or rashad

[gilded wraith]

What's the fastest attack speed melee weapon? Combat blade?

[peak tree]

Is it just generally any good las build or any main suggestions? With that, what is the main role you'd say for vet in havoc?

[quasi tulip]

for rashad, bm and shred/deci?

[gilded wraith]

Bm headtaker

[quasi tulip]

thanks!

[gilded wraith]

There's an amazing pinned vet guide with all the weapon breakdowns.

[supple stag]

Laspistol sweep

[peak tree]

I need to re look at the guide. It's veyr long and didn't feel easily organized to reference for specific questions.

thoughh I need to review the range of guides there again as there are quite a few resources.

[vital wren]

It's hyperlinked to the sections, most of the questions people refer people to it for are just weapon dump stats and preferred perks/blessings, which you just click on melee or ranged and then the weapon.

the first pin is the guide referred to

there may occasionally be info people might have a newer take on, or that's different in high end havoc

but I haven't seen much of that

[vivid silo]

Pretty sure with 80 Thermal you can charge the last shot for "free" damage in regards to heat at the cost of extra ammo (which is only relevant in high level Havocs in my experience). A bit niché, but if you are running Blaze Away or Get's Hot with Rising Heat, that charged shot can dish out significant damage.

[bitter turtle]

Charging is still a dps loss no

Or have they buffed it

[vivid silo]

It's not a dps loss if you are running Blaze Away and you charge the shot with the stacks

I haven't done the math with Get's Hot though

[bitter turtle]

I don't see how that would change the calc behind it when the left click also is being buffed the same amount by blaze away

[tall torrent]

charge shot packs higher dmg so a multiplicative % increase is higher

but it's still less ammo efficient

if only charge shots were good

[vivid silo]

Aye it's boring when I'm only using a small handful every run or so to penetrate deeper cover or similar

[bitter turtle]

I'm just making numbers up here but

Suppose a normal shot does 100 and a charged shot does 120

If both are boosted by an additional 20% now it's 120 vs 144

[tall torrent]

Yea

[bitter turtle]

120 vs 144 is still obviously a 20% increase lol

[tall torrent]

It’s +24 for the charged shot in your example

+20% on a higher base number is a higher numerical increase

[bitter turtle]

Yes but as an advantage over left clicking it's still the same ratio

[tall torrent]

The “advantage” is the higher numerical increase

[bitter turtle]

When we're talking about dps though it's still the same increase for both

[tall torrent]

How is it the same increase for both

You already showed that hipfire gets +20, charged gets +24

[bitter turtle]

Like pretend that charged shots take 1 minute to fire and uncharged takes 50 seconds

[tall torrent]

Higher base = higher scaling

You can say same percentage increase

[bitter turtle]

100 dps over 50 seconds = 2 dps per second

120 over 60 seconds = 2 dps per second

If u boost it by 20% to 120 and 144

120/50 = 2.4 dps per second

144/60= 2.4 dps per second

The comparison does not change

Charging does not become better

Relative to uncharged

[warm harbor]

Once I’m done leveling Ogryn I’ll be back to gun and fun

[bitter turtle]

I get that on a single shot it's gaining "more" than an uncharged in terms of dmg but in terms of dps, if you boost both by the same percentage it should not change the calculus behind dps relative to uncharged

[vivid silo]

Charged the last shot with Blaze Away means you do 10010 damage instead of 8198 damage

[bitter turtle]

Yes

I know

[vivid silo]

So you are getting a damage equivalent of 2000 damage, for charging a single shot

[bitter turtle]

I literally just said

[vivid silo]

We can say you can bring up that you can fire off another uncharged shot in that timeframe, but that doesn't bring you more damage

[bitter turtle]

I understand that if you are looking at the dmg gain on the shot, yes, the charged one gets "more"

But I'm saying in terms of dps gain it's still the same % for both

[vivid silo]

You are literally increasing the damage you've dealt with a full heat dump by ~25%, for charging a SINGLE shot. How is that not a DPS gain?

[bitter turtle]

You aren't going to tell me that going from 4>5 and going from 80>100 are different % increases just because the former is +1 and the latter is +20 are you?

I already explained it in a hypothetical above

W/e i literally just woke up idc go charge your shots maybe I'm the dumbass that doesn't get it

[vivid silo]

You are squeezing more ammo out of your heat, that was my original point

more damage*

You can also increase the gain by stacking more modifiers which the Vet can easily do

[bitter turtle]

Again, i point you at my hypothetical to illustrate my point

[vivid silo]

Doing 8198 damage over 4 seconds is 2049dps.
Doing 10010 damage over 4,5 seconds is 2224 dps.
Let's say you can squeeze in 1 more uncharged shot (assuming you don't have to vent) you are doing 9018 damage over 4,5 seconds at 2004 dps

Since the damage of the 9th shot doesn't benefit from Blaze Away

Going for 2 full cycles (assuming no venting time) gives 1168 DPS against 1441 DPS.

I don't see how it isn't a DPS boost

You can even add in 2 uncharged shots (1 with a stack of blaze away) to the uncharged calculation and you end up at 1381 dps

[bitter turtle]

If u take literally the numbers you've given

The difference between 2049 dps and 2224 dps is a 8%ish difference

You can multiply it by whatever % dmg boost you like

The numerical difference becomes greater but as a % they are still 8% from each other

[vivid silo]

The numbers Ive posted show me doing more damage in the same amount of time

I dont know what to say

[bitter turtle]

Ok

[vivid silo]

More damage in the same timeframe means a higher dps

[bitter turtle]

Suppose we take the numbers u gave and add a 20% boost to both

[vivid silo]

I dont really care. Ive shown my method deals higher DPS than not doing my method

That was my point

[bitter turtle]

8198 > 9837
10010 > 12012

It's still an 8% difference if u compare the two if u divide the first by 4 seconds and the second by 4.5 again

In terms of dps mind you

[vivid silo]

You claimed what I did was a DPS loss. Ive now shown otherwise

[bitter turtle]

Might as well charge every shot then

Bigger numbers

[tall torrent]

Ending salvo with charge shot is not a dps loss, it’s just inefficient in terms of ammo cost

Pure charge shot dps is inferior to hipfire x8

[vivid silo]

Yep, I specifically said it came at the cost of ammo

[bitter turtle]

It's the exact same dps relative to not charging it normally is what I'm saying

I already showed you that multiplicative boosts aren't going to change a dps comparison

[vivid silo]

So, you think doing 2049 DPS is doing higher DPS than 2224 DPS?

You do realize why charged shots isn't DPS effective normally right?

Because of the increased Heat generation, meaning you need to vent more

and you aren't using the heat as effeciently

My method circumvents that completely, by using the exact same amount of heat that the normal method does

[bitter turtle]

Charged shots are lower dps than left clicking even if heat didn't exist im p sure

[terse idol]

well to be fair and the slower shots per second

[bitter turtle]

Yea

[vivid silo]

And you asking me to just charge every shot implies you haven't even understood that part

[terse idol]

it's both the increased heat and charged shots are slower inherently vs just spamming uncharged shots

Okay let's see what's happening here

[bitter turtle]

Even if heat didn't exist I'm p sure a charged shot at best breaks even

I recorded ttks before for them

Idk where it is in the channel but yea

[bitter turtle]

What I'm contending here as an undelying idea is the idea that multiplicative boosts change a dps calculation comparison

[serene bough]

Remember when plasma used to do HP damage

[tall torrent]

You’re witnessing peak veteran chat brain rot

[vivid silo]

Your literally first reply to me was "Charging is still a dps loss no"

Implying what I did, was a DPS loss

[bitter turtle]

Again

Do what you like

Idc

[vivid silo]

I'm going to be doing higher DPS at the cost of a bit more ammo, if I need to

thanks

[bitter turtle]

Np

[paper trellis]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding but is yura saying that’s it’s the same dps because the charge shot takes longer to go off?

[vivid silo]

Your welcome

[faint beacon]

I-

Hold on is this on the topic of plasma

[wanton dawn]

am a true survivor now

[paper trellis]

Far as I can tell

[faint beacon]

Cause you want to avoid expending as much ammo as you can

[serene bough]

Gratz

[wanton dawn]

Despite me being confused the whole game

[vivid silo]

I specifically said ammo is the primary cost of doing it, which doesn't mean anything outside of high havocs in my experience

[bitter turtle]

#veteran-class message
This is my point about how multiplicative boosts affect dps

[paper trellis]

Okay so yeah, it’s that the relative increase in damage in equivalent to the additional time spent

[bitter turtle]

Yea

Thats my point lol

[wanton dawn]

Funny thing, every havoc I felt like I have all the ammo drop its... weird

Not complaining though

[paper trellis]

I’m not sure of the plasma’s damage to charge time ration off the top of my head, but assuming the proposed numbers are accurate, it would be the same damage per second yes

[wanton dawn]

its double damage more or less

but 3 times the ammo

Also way more pen

[paper trellis]

Remind me, what’s the difference in charge time?

[wanton dawn]

IDK i never charges

[faint beacon]

I’d say In Aurics it can be noticeable if others are running ammo demanding weapons which I mean, it’s why I’m more for having a stockpile of ammo on standby cause High havocs has taught me that

If you have low or no ammo and if you even have at all bad positions you’re fucking dying