Zamazenta Is good it was just outshined by zacian
#competitive_discussion
dapper crag
pastel blade
Should I change anything?
dapper crag
Wide guard is mid
atomic mural
no?
warped mason
I'd definitely go wide guard unless u want to die to astral barrage
dapper crag
My friends dad ran away when he got him using wide gaurd
craggy dagger
run mienshao-
expanding force bleak wind bait cause it gets wide guard
craggy dagger
Caught
you do you man.
but don’t be sad if you get swept by expanding force, bleakwind, water spout, astral barrage, glacial lance
cyan smelt
Precipice blades
dapper crag
They can't be that bad
atomic mural
they are THAT bad
craggy dagger
They can't be that bad
who’s gonna tell them 
dapper crag
I can insure you nothing will happen
warped mason
Blizzard from kyurem white too
atomic mural
icy wind from bundle
cyan smelt
Wide guard is ALWAYS good in restricted formats
dapper crag
Just tera ogerpon and ivy cudgel it
atomic mural
i wish iron hands got wide guard
warped mason
Its wide af, it should of gotten it.
craggy dagger
Just tera ogerpon and ivy cudgel it
dapper crag
Tera ogerpon and ivy cudgel the fiend
cyan smelt
Ignore him he's trolling
dapper crag
It's that simple
warped mason
Why does valiant get it but not hands
dapper crag
I acc ament
dapper crag
Ignore him he's trolling
I actually ament
craggy dagger
atomic mural
Why does valiant get it but not hands
they want it to be better than hands (awful thing)
craggy dagger
wanna play me?
dapper crag
I've never actually been sweeped by those spread moved
cyan smelt
Doubt
dapper crag
wanna play me?
Are you talking to me?
craggy dagger
yeah
cyan smelt
Not if they outspeed and ko ogerpon
dapper crag
yeah
Ok I play with u
I started playing comp like 3 weeks ago
And I hit master ball rank
warped mason
Does life orb miraidon voltswitch oneshot kyogre
atomic mural
Does life orb miraidon voltswitch oneshot kyogre
like 0 hp 4 spdef calc for kyogre?
warped mason
Ya
dapper crag
Stop giving bad advice
Bro thinks I've been playing comp for 3 decades
atomic mural
36+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Miraidon Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyogre in Electric Terrain: 198-234 (113.1 - 133.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
choice specs better tho
warped mason
36 spa 💀
atomic mural
36+ SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Miraidon Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyogre in Electric Terrain: 224-266 (128 - 152%) -- guaranteed OHKO
dapper crag
Choice items are bad trust
cyan smelt
Nah it's obvious from your advice that you haven't been playing comp a long time
atomic mural
yeah you dont need to run that many stat points in special attack
dapper crag
Why would u want to be locked to a move
warped mason
What ko's do u get with specs that u don't with life orb.
dapper crag
I only use it on mu flutter mane bc I use booster energy on raging bolt
craggy dagger
Why would u want to be locked to a move
HappyW on showdown :>
dapper crag
U tryna play?
craggy dagger
i asked-
and you said yes-
dapper crag
I play sv not showdown tho
craggy dagger
dapper crag
Wha
cyan smelt
Man's trolling, ignore him
craggy dagger
how does one play reg G on cart
cyan smelt
Gl trying to ko calyrex with ogerpon btw
atomic mural
Gl trying to ko calyrex with ogerpon btw
252 Atk Ogerpon-Hearthflame Ivy Cudgel (1.2x Mask Boost) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Calyrex-Shadow Rider: 117-138 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO yeah I will
cyan smelt
Caly outspeeds tho
cyan smelt
Lmao
atomic mural
whole joke btw
karmic temple
Whew there’s something’s going on in this chat
craggy dagger
and that’s why people run wide guard now
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2094716396
dapper crag
Whew there’s something’s going on in this chat
I'm being accused
craggy dagger
but also bleh-
i feel disgusted playing that team
atomic mural
flutter mane no longer 60% usage with this one 🗣️
craggy dagger
17 turn match in a restricted format
lmao what-
rustic mountain
we win those tho
rustic mountain
lmao what-
dapper crag
I've hardly played comp just cuz u think I give bad advice doesn't mean I'm trolling
craggy dagger
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2094714664-x9g0axzfizqdue496o...
well played though
rustic mountain
haha ty
polar canyon
Shift gear solgaleo when
Crazy that it only has cosmic power and calm mind for stat boosting moves
Sorry iron defense too
craggy dagger
isn’t dusk mane generally better?
polar canyon
True
rustic mountain
not necessarily
craggy dagger
though i think dusk is slower?
rustic mountain
dusk mane can be intimidated
craggy dagger
oh true
polar canyon
Clear amulet ig
cyan smelt
Solgaleo got a bad typing
dapper crag
SableyeBot version 4.26.4
rustic mountain
yea u can opt into that but then u have no flexibility on item
dapper crag
SableyeBot version 4.26.4
polar canyon
40 hp difference
dapper crag
1v1 me meant to dm to sm1 mb
strange fjord
ability also reduces damage from super effective moves is worth noting
cyan smelt
Prolly doesn't do much against lorb or specs calyrex
polar canyon
Just clear body
polar canyon
Prolly doesn't do much against lorb or specs calyrex
What
rustic mountain
i think in this kinda format w/ single restricted its tough justifying either over other options tbh but u could prolly make either work if u really wanted. idk how consistent itd b tho
polar canyon
Oh you mean shadow
cyan smelt
Yes
strange fjord
no one ever means base calyrex lol
bold geode
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2094714664-x9g0axzfizqdue496o...
- I see you use CM set
- How's the Caly MU
polar canyon
I thought ice
rustic mountain
caly has been pretty manageable
usually some combo of zacian/incin/rilla and either pao or zacian
cyan smelt
I haven't seen much ting lu around, is that because it gets destroyed by glacial lance
polar canyon
The problem with base solgaleo is the moveset I think
rustic mountain
pao or urshi my b
bold geode
Ah
polar canyon
But is the stat change and ability worth it to have swords dance as dusk mane
rustic mountain
that depends on team comp
bold geode
I'd love to see your team
rustic mountain
like the paste?
bold geode
Yeah
cyan smelt
I still haven't come up with a team, I have no idea what to use tbh
polar canyon
Same
rustic mountain
id say jus pick stuff u think is strong and jus ladder w/ it
polar canyon
I tried seeing what dawn wings necrozma can do and was expectedly disappointed
rustic mountain
no point in theory crafting too much early format
polar canyon
It's better to stick with just lunala with multiscale
cyan smelt
I want to try ho oh but I'm afraid it's gonna be mid
polar canyon
It can tank zacian ig
cyan smelt
What teras are caly I running
polar canyon
Does it need a defensive tera if it can just take a hit with weakness policy?
Man remember when dynamax weakness policy self activation was good
That was pretty awful to play
cyan smelt
Nowadays it's just clear amulet coaching or decorate
polar canyon
I think I wanna try snow kyurem white
Would it benefit from defensive tera fire?
Steel and fairy resist
It's cute that it would fit the reshiram theme
Wait remember how snow baxcalibur with loaded dice was a thing
Kyurem black also has icicle spear and scale shot
rustic mountain
I want to try ho oh but I'm afraid it's gonna be mid
idk about mid but its not gna b great
its not bottom barrel of restricteds
its kinda jus glorified entei tho (heard that on tub takes lol)
polar canyon
What's the bottom barrel of restricteds
rustic mountain
cosmoem, cosmog, calyrex base
cyan smelt
Necrozma
polar canyon
cosmoem, cosmog, calyrex base
Oh that's like to be expected
cyan smelt
Giratina
polar canyon
I don't think anyone expects cosmog and base calyrex to be usable
lethal zinc
cosmoem, cosmog, calyrex base
The splash Cosmog meta about to go crazy.
polar canyon
That doesn't count
polar canyon
The splash Cosmog meta about to go crazy.
The eviolite cosmoem teleport pivot fr
rustic mountain
Oh that's like to be expected
cyan smelt
Cosmic power teleport lol
rustic mountain
i mean those are the bottom they are still restricteds
stuff like mewtwo is mid but its not like the absolute worse wen those exist
polar canyon
Mewtwo could probably be at least not bad in expanding force shenanigans
Like much worse option than caly shadow but still exists
100 bp psyshock
Totally an excuse to use it
Mewtwo is literally the sequel to mew yet mew is not allowed
strange fjord
boutta bring back my Iron Ball TR Mewtwo
rustic mountain
Like much worse option than caly shadow but still exists
well yea thats the idea
its outclassed but not even jus caly s but also lunala
for psychic type restricted
u could make it work prolly tho for ladder its jus gna b tougher
cyan smelt
I didn't realise ho oh had such high sp def
polar canyon
Is this what the new generation calls cooking with rizz or is this from ohio
Fidget spinner
bold geode
Is this what the new generation calls cooking with rizz or is this from ohio
Never speak like that again lmao
timber falcon
polar canyon
Never speak like that again lmao
Like what
Hey
Does tera shell work with shed tail the same way multiscale does?
sullen rain
I’m trying to get into competitive. What should I know, how should I learn, and also I was planning on a rain team with rapid urshifu, what other pokemon should I use with him?
gentle cragBOT
Here is a list of all of the resources I find most helpful when playing/learning VGC:
https://www.vgcguide.com/ (Helpful website for basics and also to get your feet wet)
https://www.pikalytics.com/ (Shows you usage data and helps you build Pokémon)
https://nerd-of-now.github.io/NCP-VGC-Damage-Calculator/ (Damage calculator that is very helpful when building teams or reflecting on games)
https://youtube.com/c/CybertronVGC (Best channel for daily VGC content, guiding you through the thought process you need for success)
https://victoryroadvgc.com/ (Tournament results, team reports and breakdowns, and rental codes can be found here)
https://twitter.com/VGCPastes - Tournament and high ranked teams
https://twitter.com/vgccorner - Helpful Twitter account that posts in-depth EV spreads and ideas about competitive pokemon
There are dozens of other resources, some of which are in the pinned messages of this channel. But these IMO are the best places to start absorbing knowledge and getting to a place where you're comfortable with VGC
mlbd (ID 197813560997314562)
rustic mountain
id say starting out with this ^
its a lot for sure, jus take it at ur own pace
@sullen rain
wet wedge
I boot up my first VGC Reg G Showdown battle in my life and the game welcomes me with a double Fire Blast crit + burn in the first one on my Iron Hands all in the same turn.
This game is absolutely fantastic
rustic mountain
id say worry about rounding out the team wen u have a better idea on wat vgc is and the basics
sullen rain
Alright
rustic mountain
if its reg f theyll be rentals out w/ rain watershifu
reg g isnt official yet so less teams for that in general ppl are still figuring things out
kindred cypress
So who’s gonna be the greatest legendary threat in reg g, miraidon shadowrex or flutter mane?
cyan smelt
Miraidon, caly-s and caly-i
mighty stump
id say worry about rounding out the team wen u have a better idea on wat vgc is ...
I’d say, worry
molten oasis
Is this what the new generation calls cooking with rizz or is this from ohio
bruh
dont diss my baby a9 like that
with that gen alpha (or whatever) speech
should i try snow
craggy dagger
should i try snow
yes
molten oasis
hmm
craggy dagger
snow white and the vgc menaces
molten oasis
kyurem white and the ninetales
craggy dagger
(a9 kyurem white. vgc menaces after)
molten oasis
ok
ill give it a shot tomorrow
or maybe tonight if i have time
ill probably build something tonight at least
cyan smelt
Should I build ho-oh
craggy dagger
Should I build ho-oh
it’s a physical attacker…
just saying 
rustic mountain
I’d say, worry
dapper crag
SableyeBot version 4.26.4
molten oasis
220 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kyurem-White: 164-194 (82 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
cyan smelt
What about beads of ruin calc
molten oasis
you right
i mean like, no surprise it dies
220 SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kyurem-White: 218-258 (93.9 - 111.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
molten oasis
oh yea
252+ SpA Life Orb Calyrex-Shadow Rider Astral Barrage vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kyurem-White: 87-103 (43.5 - 51.5%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
lmao
with veil
cyan smelt
Not bad
molten oasis
252+ SpA Life Orb Calyrex-Shadow Rider Astral Barrage vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kyurem-White through Aurora Veil: 58-68 (29 - 34%) -- 2% chance to 3HKO
cyan smelt
What about specs
molten oasis
specs is overkill but ill check it
252+ SpA Choice Specs Calyrex-Shadow Rider Astral Barrage vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Kyurem-White: 100-118 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
cyan smelt
Nice
warped mason
Just finished building this. Can't wait for regulation G.
cyan smelt
In the matches I've spectated so far I've noticed gholdengo has disappeared lmao
rustic mountain
itll come back, it always does
rustic mountain
haha yea idk how good itll be tho w/ more power creep but itll prolly find a way
cyan smelt
Scarf gholdengo is one point faster than caly s
rustic mountain
yea shadow makes it tougher but u have a partner/team for that
cyan smelt
I don't think any dark type is because it can just tera to fairy
rustic mountain
yea idt it wins the tera face off
its a mon i gta wait to see how the meta settles first
maybe some1 is doin well w/ it but rn its the wild west
molten oasis
im gonna give it a shot but
you cant bring it to caly shadow or groudon
its just bad into them
rustic mountain
yea i wouldnt especially for groudon
molten oasis
miraidon seems like
rustic mountain
since usually ur gna have 2-3 other things that also threaten it
molten oasis
fine on paper
rustic mountain
ngl ive been unimpressed vs it
rustic mountain
i think in double restricteds its amazing tho
rustic mountain
i think koraidons better cuz of what it can enable
miraidons partners kinda suck idk
molten oasis
bundle isnt bad
rustic mountain
maybe im being too harsh
molten oasis
but like, sun enables flutter bolt, even wake
although i still think groudon is better lol
molten oasis
a fat one too
cyan smelt
Aren't most restricteds tera hogs
rustic mountain
bundle isnt bad
im speaking more generally
molten oasis
zacian isnt
rustic mountain
like the sun paradoxes vs the electric ones
rustic mountain
dude
molten oasis
groudon isnt
rustic mountain
dragon/fighting sucks defensively
molten oasis
yes ik
rustic mountain
not talkin to u
molten oasis
oh lol
cyan smelt
Ik
mighty stump
-calc 107x0.67
gentle cragBOT
Result: 71.690000
molten oasis
zama isnt ig
cyan smelt
But don't you want to tera your restricted most of the time
rustic mountain
so u can see how something would be weighted more depending on how often its threatened?
even with that sentiment which i also dont agree with cuz thats a bad habit
cyan smelt
I think koraidon just needs careful positioning
molten oasis
youre still a tera hog
rustic mountain
it needs very careful positioning and still needs tera more then likely
molten oasis
especially since you want to enable sun
rustic mountain
0?
mighty stump
Tera Fire is already optimal and its probably one of the strongest Flare Blitz users
rustic mountain
thats def cap
molten oasis
it gets flare blitz?
rustic mountain
yea
dapper crag
SableyeBot version 4.26.4
molten oasis
wtf why
rustic mountain
its a restricted
mighty stump
Its bulky as shit and doesnt give a fuck about Flutter, Teraing is never a problem unless its in front of Terapagos
cyan smelt
Flare blitz and collision course is 1.5x boosted for se hits
rustic mountain
nd sets sun
rustic mountain
Its bulky as shit and doesnt give a fuck about Flutter, Teraing is never a probl...
doesnt care because of tera?
molten oasis
im just trying to figure someting out for snow rn
mighty stump
doesnt care because of tera?
It loses nothing for it to be a tera hog cause it can easily overwhelm a lot of teams
as far as tera hogs go its one of the better ones
rustic mountain
yea
mighty stump
and in fact id be willing to tera offensively most of tthe time as well
rustic mountain
thats fair
i guess i havent seen it enough and wen i have it hasnt been good
so im goin off that and on paper
molten oasis
lots of caly and miraidon
mighty stump
it already has built in STAB to Flare Blitz cause it auto sets Sun
cyan smelt
The only thing is there seems to be greater variety for the violet paradoxes, with scarlet it's basically flutter and that's it
rustic mountain
i do think its strong but yea i usually dont love tera hogs but i can see the justification
rustic mountain
The only thing is there seems to be greater variety for the violet paradoxes, wi...
dude what?
cyan smelt
Maybe gouging and wake and bolt
molten oasis
thers bundle and hands
mighty stump
My Tusk outspeeds Booster Spe Flutter Mane in Sun
molten oasis
and boulder doesnt seem half bad
cyan smelt
Iron leaves is pretty underrated I think
rustic mountain
tusk? 👀
molten oasis
i dont see waht it brings to the table at all
rustic mountain
tofu w/ the sun sauce
rustic mountain
double water double ice?
molten oasis
wellspring doesnt overlap with shifu
oh im kinda weak to miraidon fuck
wait this is the wrong team again
THATS the correct team
except incin has snarl
double ice is just
inevitable with snow teams unless you go run torn instead of a9
cyan smelt
Sand still has no legendary setter, I'm mad about that
rustic mountain
same
rustic mountain
inevitable with snow teams unless you go run torn instead of a9
i get that i jus think double water is weird rn, and they do have 1 overlap weakness;flying
molten oasis
oh true
rustic mountain
im not saying it wont work
molten oasis
i want redirect for dengo
rustic mountain
i thought baeks team that won was weird too
molten oasis
and not more rock weaknesses so i went with wellspring
molten oasis
yea
cyan smelt
I was tempted to use jugulis
thin fjord
How do yall feel about Rayquaza in reg. G? Movesets? Trash?
cyan smelt
Flutter walls ray
molten oasis
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2094870609-gg2j4e22s0l7vgpv3aa2lvufivr28kppw wow what a first great match
molten oasis
Flutter walls ray
dragon ascent
rustic mountain
How do yall feel about Rayquaza in reg. G? Movesets? Trash?
wouldnt say trash but tough to use as ur single restricted
cyan smelt
Needs help from chien Pao imo
rustic mountain
yea
thin fjord
The team needs several options to beat Flutter
rustic mountain
wat ive seen and wat ive seen ppl talk about is basically jus the dnite set but w/ silk scarf?
prolly some banded
and by dnite set i mean tera normal e speed w/ sword of ruin
molten oasis
lovelyh
cyan smelt
I've seen clear amulet with swords dance for ray
rustic mountain
very much
thin fjord
@molten oasis are you playing reg g in showdown or where?
cyan smelt
Oh btw jugulis gets dragon cheer
rustic mountain
ew
rustic mountain
oh god lmao
cyan smelt
Reg g ladder is live on showdown yes
mighty stump
Since Air Lock stops the cut
mighty stump
yea u do that, then give me the sauce
ya sure
rustic mountain
rustic mountain
they do
cyan smelt
Expect the unexpected ig
molten oasis
this is not fun
rustic mountain
p much, especially early format
molten oasis
another fucking sun team
cyan smelt
Lol what?
rustic mountain
dude wat r u facing lmao
molten oasis
elo hell
cyan smelt
Gholdengoat
rustic mountain
sun team w/ nothing for dengo? very weirdge
rustic mountain
molten oasis
yes
rustic mountain
i mean if they r having fun sure otherwise, wtf
cyan smelt
At least it's not agility wake
molten oasis
fr
cyan smelt
Have you used fusion flare yet
molten oasis
im about to maybe
rustic mountain
have u used fusion flare yet
rustic mountain
oh i was asking kalos
molten oasis
oh lol
cyan smelt
No I'm not planning on running kyurem w
molten oasis
well im gonna lose anyway cuz i cant do ay damage
cyan smelt
No I'll run ho oh and fail miserably
molten oasis
ok its really close rn
rustic mountain
can jus run entei for sacred fire but yea regenerator
i put ho oh like middle of the pack
molten oasis
ok i won lol
rustic mountain
better then mewtwo and like giratina
dull ibex
anyone got a cool sun paste?
dull ibex
sun metas >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
molten oasis
4 in a row man
dull ibex
im in favor of this
rustic mountain
im not
rustic mountain
i have the start of one in my builder but ive jus been laddering w/ 1 team so far
smoky hawk
Miraidon + bundle, bundle holds what item? Sash? Orb?
molten oasis
ive seen sash a lot
rustic mountain
sash seems better for bundle
smoky hawk
Yeah sounds right
rustic mountain
its not there for major damage necessarily
sash is nice to guarantee speed control and tank atleast 2 hits no matter what
rustic mountain
i played a few so far
mighty stump
Bolt
mighty stump
i like Encore
smoky hawk
Is Zacian common?
rustic mountain
i like Encore
freeze dry, icy wind, protect, encore set?
the cost of pump miss seems far too great now haha so i like that
mighty stump
freeze dry, icy wind, protect, encore set?
I dont even run Icy
rustic mountain
Is Zacian common?
not that common from wat ive seen
mighty stump
Freeze Dry/Hydro
rustic mountain
oh
mighty stump
Anyways revealing my sun tech https://pokepast.es/c4b296f821f94371
molten oasis
welp, i tried
mighty stump
Sableye means you remove Flying-type's Ground immunity and never miss Precipice Blades/Sleep Powder
WIsp is just good
its also entirely possible to remove Encore for Quash
rustic mountain
encore seems really nice for certain pins/forced switches
molten oasis
so far this is not going very well
i did missplay pretty hard last game so its more on me
rustic mountain
happens
cyan smelt
i hope caly-s + chi-yu isn't gonna be common
molten oasis
it already is
cyan smelt
joy
mighty stump
Mienshao is actually seeing more use lol
rustic mountain
fast fake out, feint, inner focus
mighty stump
Wide Guard
rustic mountain
we can tell
molten oasis
thanks kyurem
cyan smelt
as we all know, accuracy misses are just skill issues
molten oasis
all you needed to do was hit draco and i would have been fine
rustic mountain
cant even do that
molten oasis
fr
rustic mountain
u wen u stop playing on hard mode w/ kyruem and win more: 
molten oasis
real
molten oasis
lmfao
rustic mountain
the real tech
cyan smelt
what if i used ditto to get a second restricted 
rustic mountain
im sure some players are opting into that
try it out see how it is
i havent faced any ditto yet
id go scarf
molten oasis
if i lose this next game im just going back to zacian balance
this is a joke, 2 games in a row
rustic mountain
come back home
molten oasis
wtf
rustic mountain
zacian balance is the way
molten oasis
yea im done just
cyan smelt
ok so ho-oh, ditto, kingambit
rustic mountain
molten oasis
caly s can die in hell
literally
the part of the team that ISNT snow is doing way better
cyan smelt
i prolly need wide guard so mienshao too
mighty stump
Or Hitmontop
cyan smelt
can hitmontop be faked out though
mighty stump
Yep
molten oasis
does mienshao have inner focus?
cyan smelt
yes
cyan smelt
is it next to caly-i
molten oasis
s
cyan smelt
wut
cyan smelt
why not simply run gapdos, it's the superior fighting/flying type
is it because wide guard?
molten oasis
i hate this game
wow a "normal team"
i wonder what cts bs you got this time
ok beyond the snow team being kinda shit
gholdengo feels pretty solid
nah what
stellar zacian
clear amu shifu too
im crying
and i lost
snow sucks
cyan smelt
not sure what to put in these final two slots
molten oasis
paste?
cyan smelt
it's just basic and probably shit atm lol but i'll send a paste
molten oasis
basic isnt bad lol
molten oasis
i beat the snow mirror
cyan smelt
pog
molten oasis
crazy
protect over wisp imo
i dont see a reason for it
you have sacred fire
idk if i also do ditto
the concept is neat
cyan smelt
my main thought was to get a second restricted
molten oasis
yea but like
youd rather something else imo
like wellspring
oh its not finished yet
cyan smelt
yeah i was thinking wellspring
molten oasis
you can play around the fying weaknesses
Poncho (Ogerpon-Wellspring) (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 204 HP / 76 Atk / 12 Def / 28 SpD / 188 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- Horn Leech
- Follow Me
- Spiky Shield
cyan smelt
thanks
molten oasis
also id just, do anything with utility instead of ditto
wait
no you want something offensive tehre
flutter
cyan smelt
i have no idea what spread to give flutter but ik it needs booster spe
cyan smelt
ig i can use my current spread with specs
molten oasis
yea
im gonna go build with dengo
and just, find some restricted that works
i actually really like dengo lol
just not sure what restricted works with it
hmm
woah wait, eternatus is 130 speed 145 spA and 140 hp
with 95/95 defenses
but pressure
cyan smelt
ig grassy seed for rilla since av and clam are taken?
cyan smelt
also what about sneasler instead of flutter?
cyan smelt
oh and i already have mienshao
molten oasis
yea lol
cyan smelt
ok time to try this out, hope i don't lose horribly
molten oasis
good luck
cyan smelt
i lost
mighty stump
Lol
Every Flutter on the planet not even running Shadow Ball anymore all they do is Icy Wind spam
molten oasis
lmao
https://pokepast.es/360370af0b7a1ea6 any thoughts on members for this? it was on a snow team, snow felt bad, but this part of the team did feel pretty solid. Idk what restricted to try and im willing to expreiment with things
every game i brought dengo in i won except for 1
i lost like all my matches with snow however
without dengo
cyan smelt
ok i think i'm managing the mirai matchup ok but it's only low ladder
mighty stump
https://pokepast.es/360370af0b7a1ea6 any thoughts on members for this? it was on...
Im just gonna do caly-I with snow
lol
Tera Ice
cyan smelt
lmao i just wide guarded once and they forfeit
mighty stump
Unironically Hitmontop/Mienshao can definitely see use with Caly-S/Caly-I
Wide Guard with their own Feint allowing your own spread move to hit a target
knotty mirage
Is there a way to have both caly ice and shadow on same save file ?
cyan smelt
man wide guard just completely walls caly-s/chi-yu
knotty mirage
Get it from someone else
Do you mean trade for them ?
knotty mirage
The thing is i have 2 caly and both glastrier and spectrier the problem is the rein of unity doesn't work when i try to fuse the second one
knotty mirage
I currently have ice rider for terra raid
And when i try to fuse second caly with spectrier so i can use it for comp it just doesn't work
molten oasis
Maybe it can only work on 1 paid per
knotty mirage
I guess that’s all you can do
Damn that's sucks
molten oasis
Save file
knotty mirage
Damn it i need caly ice for terra raid but i want to use caly s for next reg 
knotty mirage
Oh well should i just build another restricted legend then
molten oasis
like as the main set up
knotty mirage
Which one is better koraidon or miraidon ?
knotty mirage
Well i will try to use miraidon as my restricted legend then
molten oasis
On their own miraidon is better but to enable other things koraidon is better
knotty mirage
Or should i just go for kyogre
molten oasis
Kyogres weird
It’s still good but it has to deal with miraidon bolt wellspring gastro and rilla now
knotty mirage
On their own miraidon is better but to enable other things koraidon is better
Yeah actually orichalum pulse is really good especially for past paradox like flutter but it will also enable my openent flutter
molten oasis
Yea
I fought a couple koraidon chi flutter teams, it’s so hard to deal with
it’s SOO much offensive pressure
knotty mirage
I'm thinking of using choice spec or choice scarf miraidon with fairy terra dazzling gleam
knotty mirage
Iron bundle have chance to get more usage now neat
molten oasis
Yep
knotty mirage
But i mean it do apply to most of future paradox
molten oasis
hmm, what if I used eternatus
molten oasis
But i mean it do apply to most of future paradox
Eh
Hands is good, jugulis is also solid
Idt the rest are good tho
Or just, they’re not great
tough idol
Yh you can't fuse more than 1. Same with Kyurem etc
patent marsh
Is there a way to have both caly ice and shadow on same save file ?
no
patent marsh
Yh you can't fuse more than 1. Same with Kyurem etc
ye cause the item itself holds the pokemon data which is why you can have both necrozma forms
since it has 2 items instead of the 1 like kyurem and calyrex does
mighty stump
*hmm, what if I used eternatus*
ngl
Pressure can be funny
Does it still get Cosmic Power?
mighty stump
?
wheat geode
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2094933664-4tyogj0hudmw8il3mrhqho8gexddpdrpw
in case u guys want a good laugh and cringe at the same time, i (am pretty awful honestly) literally just learned how cursed body works and nearly lost to it hahaha
i've played much better matches (at my extremely low elo) but this was just extra nail biting
autumn vault
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2094933664-4tyogj0hudmw8il3mr...
The opposing team was using regigigas without a way to remove slow start immediately, of course you won that
wheat geode
The opposing team was using regigigas without a way to remove slow start immedia...
honestly i'm pretty new to this so i have no idea what regigigas nor slow start does
i think turns 1-2 showed i had no idea really how to deal with it, so i just conceded to setting up for turns 3 onwards however i could
having lots of fun with this team but there's obv definitely a lot i need to flesh out, my t1s-2 are either pretty good or extremely awkward
mighty stump
The team seems kinda clunky lead wise
Like structurally it looks like it can quickly fall apart to strong HO without having options
wheat geode
Like structurally it looks like it can quickly fall apart to strong HO without h...
HO?
It honestly definitely is clunky, there was a point I got really comfortable with Sableye-Hyphlosion leads but I started experimenting with Sableye/Torkoal-Farigiraf lead too; formerly Farigiraf and Torkoal were Gyarados and Ursaluna to give me more offensive and support options, but it just felt really weird and unfamiliar to use
I think the objective I'm trying to go for is to just get set up for Eruption spam as safely and quickly as possible; i'm primarily focusing on having fun with it and exploring teambuilding along the way though, so my expectations are low hahaha
autumn vault
HO?
It honestly definitely is clunky, there was a point I got really comfortabl...
HO = Hyper Offense
autumn vault
honestly i'm pretty new to this so i have no idea what regigigas nor slow start ...
slow start halves the speed and attack for 5 turns
wheat geode
slow start halves the speed and attack for 5 turns
oh yeah then that's confusing; im assuming they did have something but it just never came out
wheat geode
HO = **H**yper **O**ffense
ah then yeah that's correct! i'm definitely struggling with teams revolving around paradox legends the most (unsurprisingly) that can go all out on t1 or 2; I've sorta gotten around dealing with the regular paradoxes but it isn't so easy either way
tough idol
It's about to get even wilder lol 😆
wheat geode
but it's definitely fun learning! i've struggled and eventually picked up a decent gameplan around dealing with rain teams, other sun teams, the recent articuno teams too—but paradox teams still kinda mess me up haha. I've been considering replacing poltchageist because I haven't really been using it and bringing it has started to feel awkward—it used to be a great way to deal with UrshifuR and Ogerpon but I've gotten around (semi-decently) to dealing with them even without it
tough idol
I'm gonna have a mess around with Caly S on Showdown later
autumn vault
I am just messing with Zekrom and Zamazenta, they are sleeping on the G. O. A. T. S. (Zekrom/Zamazenta imo is B tier)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2094951884 Why zamazenta is a good restricted
daring jungle
Can i get an opinion of this team please. my friend and i are doing random shiny competitive battles and these were the mons i rolled. any advice greatly appreciated:
https://pokepast.es/74941afeaeffcc51
cyan smelt
sadly i don't think ho oh is it
last yarrow
Hey I'm making a trickroom team with ursaluna (normal), would hammer arm or close combat be better on it?
autumn vault
Hey I'm making a trickroom team with ursaluna (normal), would hammer arm or clos...
They are not great options but if you really want one of them i would go CC
More damage and 100% accuracy is better
last yarrow
Alrighty, thank you
last yarrow
https://pokepast.es/efbb9c31236e8829
Any suggestions y'all have for changes? Planning on making this for the in-game ladder when it's available. (No DLC yet btw)
timber dome
I need help guys
cyan smelt
I think I'm gonna use koraidon instead of ho oh
patent marsh
I think I'm gonna use koraidon instead of ho oh
REAL
tough idol
Oops fell asleep again 😴 getting old
foggy lodge
https://pokepast.es/efbb9c31236e8829
Any suggestions y'all have for changes? Pl...
Why tera electric in Cress
And add something like Amoonguss instead of Inci
Even Ogerpon Wellspring but you don't have the DLC
last yarrow
Went with tera electric cress since I figured no weaknesses would be good & my friend suggested incineroar
tough idol
Electric tera v Groudon and others with Ground coverage in Reg G is an obstacle
last yarrow
cresselia has levitate though?
timber dome
i want to make a team with raging bolt
tough idol
cresselia has levitate though?
There's got to be a reason why Cress isn't normally Electric tera. I just can't think what it is lmao
@timber dome there's a few in #rental_teams for some ideas
last yarrow
I'm noticing calyrex shadow giving me some trouble + there's fluttermane so might try tera dark & see how that goes, ty for the advice
gentle cragBOT
I'm noticing calyrex shadow giving me some trouble + there's fluttermane so migh...
flooferdooper6 has given 1 Gen Rep to ictlegion
autumn vault
https://pokepast.es/a4e3adee5362b929 Any 6th members?
tough idol
Fluttermane will rip Dark tera with Moonblast
autumn vault
I'm noticing calyrex shadow giving me some trouble + there's fluttermane so migh...
Tera dark is only good against calyrex shadow, flutter mane has fairy STAB and it will shred tera dark with moonblast
tough idol
https://pokepast.es/a4e3adee5362b929 Any 6th members?
Lando I?
tough idol
But swap Venu item to I don't know what
autumn vault
herbie uses a Life Orb on venusaur, it is on #rental_teams
tough idol
I just mean if you went Lando I, Lorb goes well with Sheer Force
autumn vault
oh right
I can use sitrus berry to help bulk, more survivability = More sleep powders = being annoying as fuck
I also forgot to give protect to Koraidon
last yarrow
Tera dark is only good against calyrex shadow, flutter mane has fairy STAB and i...
got any suggestions for what tera type for cress? Only defensive one I have in mind is tera steel but iirc steel was nerfed to not resist ghost
autumn vault
got any suggestions for what tera type for cress? Only defensive one I have in m...
If you want a ghost immunity you can go normal, if you want to resist fairy then steel
Normal to be immune to astral barrage/shadow ball which will be clicked a lot against cress
last yarrow
Alrighty, I'ma do that then ^_^
autumn vault
https://pokepast.es/3595a08dc16cf5ae I done some changes, any more things i should adress?
tough idol
Sheer Force Lando
Does Torn need Sunny Day, maybe Taunt? Or is it in case weather gets reset
autumn vault
I forgor about Sheer Force, i didn't realize it was sand force
autumn vault
Does Torn need Sunny Day, maybe Taunt? Or is it in case weather gets reset
Haven't tested yet, and the team looks reliant on sun (the FWG core all specialize in sun and koraidon can get it's attack buff back, also counters kyogre and snow teams)
foggy lodge
https://pokepast.es/a4e3adee5362b929 Any 6th members?
Triple dragon type?
bold geode
Every Flutter on the planet not even running Shadow Ball anymore all they do is ...
I don't think Gholdengo is gonna be around rn so like
For once, that one set ain't too bad
Also Hitmontop and Mienshao coming back?
mighty stump
https://pokepast.es/3595a08dc16cf5ae I done some changes, any more things i shou...
What is Gouging Fire doing here
autumn vault
What is Gouging Fire doing here
It is a breaking swipe spammer with howl support for koraidon, i am just realizing now that maybe ddance is a better set instead of howl
it doesn't have booster energy because of sun
mighty stump
Not running Flutter is just criminal here. Gouging Fire is basically a dead slot without Koraidon
autumn vault
I am not running flutter because, well the history between me and flutter is like wolfe and xerneas' history
It is shit
mighty stump
That kind of thing is just stupid
autumn vault
I am thinking that dragon dance gouging is better in this case
So that way it can atleast operate in a way without koraidon
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2095075623 First match of testing against a sun team
Sun Koraidon vs Sun Groudon
bold geode
Ope
next stump
wtf man
molten oasis
stupid mon
molten oasis
thats still stupid
chrome knot
i like being hidden away in reg f ladder
molten oasis
Man I’m not playing this format that’s so dumb lol
rustic mountain
jus dont play kyruem w
chrome knot
its why i keep saying im happy orlando is my last regional
mighty stump
People giving up on formats so quickly
chrome knot
nah i was all over reg f
ive been saying since i started that restricteds would be when i retire
rustic mountain
no lillidon? 
chrome knot
no lillidon? <a:CB_bruh:637505849304023050>
no bc my restricted would be caly i
mighty stump
I just think Restricted's margin of error like any powercreeping format is so small it means it really tests your play
rustic mountain
Ok that’s not what I meant lol
yea haha im jus messin. id say jus to not overestimate early format
plain drum
Tofu 
how’ve you been lately
mighty stump
Shit mood
plain drum
rustic mountain
I just think Restricted's margin of error like any powercreeping format is so sm...
for sure
mighty stump
I was stuck in bumper to bumper traffic for 4 hours on the way to my partner's house to the point where I just turned around and went home
which took the same amount of time
rustic mountain
fuck
plain drum
Yikes
rustic mountain
that sucks
mighty stump
During a time where it shouldnt have had any traffic at all
All because of a random flash flood
and some accidents, mayhaps
According to Google Maps
I was like
What
rustic mountain
hopefully everyones alright who was involved
mighty stump
10 minutes via regular time on the way
IT would have taken
well
it did take
2 hours
just to drive those 10 minutes
and by the time I go tthere
plain drum
That’s awful
mighty stump
It would have been time to leave
rustic mountain
plain drum
I hug
gentle cragBOT
molten oasis
That sucks
mighty stump
Also my phone was completely dead so
last yarrow
Hey so just wondering, is all the effort into making teams for competitive worth it to y'all or is it more of a sunk-cost fallacy thing? Because on one hand I do like the idea of fighting other players but on the other hand jesus christ everyone is merciless out here.
rustic mountain
i find it worth it, building teams is easier then its ever been so as long as u do an initial bit of grinding its not too bad, plus u can jus use rentals if u dont wanna sink time into that
mighty stump
The initial entry into competitive is a difficult river to cross
Once you do and the information starts clicking
It's the best puzzle in the world
Just gotta have the right attitude
molten oasis
https://pokepast.es/b2ec878faf3d4352 thoughts on members guys? I’m not sure what to do for my restricted
last yarrow
i find it worth it, building teams is easier then its ever been so as long as u ...
If a rental team has a DLC 'mon do you need the DLC to use it? Never messed with it and I lack the DLC so just asking
rustic mountain
i find it like a more enjoyable chess personally. having different pieces providing different utility and using those effectively to out strategize ur opponent
rustic mountain
If a rental team has a DLC 'mon do you need the DLC to use it? Never messed with...
no u should b good
u can get traded those mons cant see why u cant use em in a rental
last yarrow
Alrighty, ty for the info
rustic mountain
np
gentle cragBOT
Here is a list of all of the resources I find most helpful when playing/learning VGC:
https://www.vgcguide.com/ (Helpful website for basics and also to get your feet wet)
https://www.pikalytics.com/ (Shows you usage data and helps you build Pokémon)
https://nerd-of-now.github.io/NCP-VGC-Damage-Calculator/ (Damage calculator that is very helpful when building teams or reflecting on games)
https://youtube.com/c/CybertronVGC (Best channel for daily VGC content, guiding you through the thought process you need for success)
https://victoryroadvgc.com/ (Tournament results, team reports and breakdowns, and rental codes can be found here)
https://twitter.com/VGCPastes - Tournament and high ranked teams
https://twitter.com/vgccorner - Helpful Twitter account that posts in-depth EV spreads and ideas about competitive pokemon
There are dozens of other resources, some of which are in the pinned messages of this channel. But these IMO are the best places to start absorbing knowledge and getting to a place where you're comfortable with VGC
mlbd (ID 197813560997314562)
rustic mountain
also this ^
last yarrow
I think the main issue is getting predictions right (plus getting better at team building in general), would y'all recommend random doubles to get better at predictions and different playstyles?
rustic mountain
id recommend playing more to get better at reads. but yea different playstyles is always a good thing, expands ur game knowledge and u can find wat u may prefer more
and watching stuff like cybertron in that post above, he does a good job of explaining things as he plays
last yarrow
Oh noice, tysm! The bulk of my competitive knowledge comes from wolfeyVGC but I'll give cybertron a watch too
autumn vault
One thing i always do is that if the bigger threat of the 2 oposing pokemon have protect, then i target the other and double on them to basically get a free kill assuming the one who is stronger protected
But it doesnt always work so do it at your risk
rustic mountain
i wouldnt say thats a general good rule of thumb
autumn vault
I dont always go with it
I go with that when it can turn the tide of battle to my favour
rustic mountain
u gta read the ebb and flow of the match, its ofc not always gna work out but usually u can gauge a players tendencies in a longer match and use protects of ur own to scout certain positions. basically u want to make plays that can get u value but also doesnt outright lose u the game. wen u can more experience u start to recognize general patterns of what players do overall and take advantage of it. theres a lot of nuance involved
autumn vault
But it doesnt always work so do it at your risk
I typed this for a reason
last yarrow
Honestly I feel way out of my element with VGC since I'm more of a casual player but thanks y'all for the advice and not smiting me on the spot lmao
mighty stump
I think the main issue is getting predictions right (plus getting better at team...
It's not about Predictions
It's about identifying safe plays
Predictions are flashy but 80% of the time unnecessary
mighty stump
I do that all the time but I get no hype smh
molten oasis
Fr
autumn vault
True
molten oasis
https://pokepast.es/81bdbb6bb6da9f3b thoughts on a 6th?
mighty stump
is EUIC Reg G?
mighty stump
I need content
An addict
next stump
it’s whatever Reg we have been playing
molten oasis
https://pokepast.es/1ce870ecda6a7006 thoughts?
mighty stump
it’s whatever Reg we have been playing
Reg F
mighty stump
https://pokepast.es/1ce870ecda6a7006 thoughts?
Ngl TornOgre with Gholdengo just makes a lot of sense for me
molten oasis
feels like the literally only way but whatever
mighty stump
? Whats bad about TornOgre now
molten oasis
? Whats bad about TornOgre now
Miraidon
The team already didn’t really feel any good into it
molten oasis
https://pokepast.es/77cd7c6835b32b00 anyway here’s this
mighty stump
Lando-I
molten oasis
The evs are half assed idk what item to use either
Alr guess wellspring is going too, or shifu
mighty stump
I can tell you're clearly upset participating in this process
molten oasis
I don’t like using the genies and I feel like tornogre is the only way to get gholdengo to work
Yes I need ti get over that stuff
It’s not smart
Just, ugh idk
I don’t really think kyogre is THAT good anymore
Ik it’s good, ik it can work fine
It has so many checks and I feel the the team needs to be more built around it
willow vault
I don’t really think kyogre is THAT good anymore
Then use something else
molten oasis
You missed the whole previous conversation
autumn vault
https://pokepast.es/7e59542f6108a462
I love how you named every pokemon named after a greek/fitting name for them, and then there is stupid genie 1/2
willow vault
I did indeed
autumn vault
I am calling flutter mane stupid towel from now on
autumn vault
Alr well, guess I’ll try this
Gl
willow vault
I’ve read the previous conversation now, have you considered using a terrain setter to slow down miraidon
willow vault
You could just Calyrex
molten oasis
I do not know what restricted to slot in besides kyogre
Hell no I already have a ghost
willow vault
Then ice Calyrex
autumn vault
What restricted do I use
I dont know, ik i am not being helpful
molten oasis
Literally caly would invalidate having dengo beyond it’s typing
I don’t have access to tr
willow vault
Groudon, double weather
autumn vault
Then ice Calyrex
Ice shines most in tr
molten oasis
I’m just going with kyogre for now
willow vault
Ice shines most in tr
I’m aware
autumn vault
Anti synergy
molten oasis
No one knows what works with dengo, except kyogre
willow vault
Anti synergy
Again I know you don’t have to tell me I’m just suggesting restricteds
molten oasis
willow vault
No one knows what works with dengo, except kyogre
Palkia
autumn vault
Again I know you don’t have to tell me I’m just suggesting restricteds
Just giving my personal opinion, also palkia isn't a bad idea
It brings dragon and fairy weaknesses which the team doesnt have except urshifu
You are making the miraidon MU a bit worse however
Of course stupid genie 2 (landorus) can handle it
willow vault
We ball and use raichu, Tera fairy. Miraidon will be petrified
brazen bough
@mighty stump https://pokepast.es/2847f0c8f12ff479 what mons do you think would round out this team
molten oasis
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2095137283 I’m not playing this team
I don’t get to bring dengo into anything
autumn vault
What is a good flutter mane spread rn
autumn vault
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2095137283 I’m not playing th...
Well it a a mirror MU
Funny, i found another sun team while using my sun team, i won that
mighty stump
I mean you're welcome to complain dude I just don't know how to help you
mighty stump
<@250386799363489808> https://pokepast.es/2847f0c8f12ff479 what mons do you thin...
Could do Farig/BM stuff
brazen bough
Could do Farig/BM stuff
Thanks
autumn vault
https://pokepast.es/7f388b9b7c15bd6c How is this team?
autumn vault
That 57% CC on groudon was more damage than i expected
that fire punch was definetely insane
Turn 4 was also pretty insane with that U-Turn
brazen bough
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2095140395-hyuwuzj04l9n2cxgb7...
do you run av groudon
next stump
I have clear amulet
brazen bough
oh ok