competitive_discussion

[dull ibex]

So I have identified an issue with my understanding of the team

im not quite sure when and why to use chien pao

you have blood?

[foggy lodge]

Ok so i realised

The teal mask was so bad of a dlc to competitive

Only like 7 Pokémon of the teal mask dlc made it into the meta

[wicked moon]

But ogrepon was kinda insane sooo

[foggy lodge]

Yeah but Ogerpon, Bloodmoon, Sinistcha and maybe Okidogi were the only good things of it

And from returning only Kommo-O, Clefairy and Weezing

[wicked moon]

Bloodmoon? What’s that?

[foggy lodge]

Bloodmoon Ursaluna

[dull ibex]

7 mons of the dlc are meta?

[wicked moon]

YOU CAN GET THAT FROM THE DLC?!?! I THOUGHT IT WAS FROM A DIFFERENT GAME! HOW?!?!

[dull ibex]

That's a high ammount.

[foggy lodge]

from the teal mask yeah

And only kinda, Okidogi, Sinistcha and Clefairy are only niche picks

So it can be reduced to 4

[dull ibex]

Niche isn't meta tbf

Ogerpon alone had a giant impact

[foggy lodge]

Ogerpon, Bloodmoon and Kommo-O carried

[foggy lodge]

Yeah Ogerpon is a game changer

[dull ibex]

I think it's the most fun broken mon I've used

High skill floor but busted

[foggy lodge]

If you count the 4 Ogerpon as different Pokémon yeah, it was at least a decent amount

But still only 2 are really meta, the other 2 are niche picks

[dull ibex]

Well only 2 forms are super viable atm

[foggy lodge]

Nah Ogerpon is fun

Ogerpon imo is power creep done right

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 1017: Ogerpon

Type

Grass

Abilities

Defiant

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

80/120/84/60/96/110

Total

550

Other Formes

Ogerpon-Wellspring, Ogerpon-Hearthflame, Ogerpon-Cornerstone, Ogerpon-Teal-Tera, Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera, Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera, Ogerpon-Cornerstone-Tera

SableyeBot version 4.26.2

[dull ibex]

What?

I said it was fun

[foggy lodge]

It doesn't even has legendary stats

But is still good

[dull ibex]

I'm confused

[foggy lodge]

Probably i said something wrong

Sorry english is not my first language

[cyan smelt]

it has legendary stats when it teras

[dull ibex]

I agree with you it's fun, I said it was fun

But it seems like you are debating a point I never made

[foggy lodge]

Ohhh

No, i was agreeing lol

[dull ibex]

Ah the use of nah threw me off

Ogerpon is a busted mon that needs to be used correctly

[foggy lodge]

I use nah more like a hell yeah so it makes sense to get confused

[dull ibex]

I like that alot, most of the time it doesn't feel unfair

[foggy lodge]

I was thinking what would happen with Ogerpon in the next gen if they get rid of the tera

[cyan smelt]

held items

it's a problem for terapagos though because without tera it's not good

[foggy lodge]

Yeah with Terapagos is more a problem

Because when you use it you want to use your tera on Terapagos

With Ogerpon is not mandatory

[mighty stump]

Both Terapagos and Ogerpon emphasise appropriate Tera timing

Depending on the game state

Good mons

[dapper crag]

does anyone have a anti bolt landorous set

[dull ibex]

It's great

[molten oasis]

I’m in pain

[autumn vault]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regfbo3-2092218025-auwj5brnf19uqn6hhf5hxamnjs2zudnpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regfbo3-2092218919-sspy3f907i5xwix7v25i5yrf7310ik0pw
Well i did some testing and the team is doing great against noobs, i have to grind higher and then test (game 2 the opponent should have clicked sucker punch turn 2)

[last yarrow]

https://pokepast.es/8ff17720a609379c

Bit proud of this half decent sun team I made, could use a fairy counter though (tempted for chlorophyll venu because water weakness too but needed another physical attacker)

[charred saddle]

i dont think you can drop moonblast for energy ball or tbolt

felt like MB gleam and ball is like the choice, but ur choice.

the EVs tho, no speed Evs is kinda bum idk how ur going to play against opposing flutter / TW MU

idk what breloom does butt the moveset is weird

and like itll be hard for you to play chiyu flutter lead since ur mane is kinda slower than the average flutter

[last yarrow]

Breloom mostly exists for the grass coverage + figured technician with life orb would be good

[charred saddle]

well if you just want grass coverage theres other candidates that can do better

[last yarrow]

I'm hoping to eventually compete in the in-game ladder and don't have DLC before you suggest ogerpon

[charred saddle]

waterpon is one of them, enables ur team with follow me support. also fulfills ur water coverage need

oh

[last yarrow]

I have a friend that can trade over pokemon you can catch multiple of + PLA on my switch but legendaries are mostly a no-go sadly

[charred saddle]

i mean if u dont have DLC, you can always use rillaboom

[dull ibex]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2092222869

[charred saddle]

fakeout pressure also enables ur flutter

or chiyu

[last yarrow]

I completely forgot rillaboom existed, thank you for the suggestion!

[charred saddle]

if you want, you can go ahead and peak at the trading section here.

some people trade ogerpons and do services for that

cough cough me myself do custom OT ogerpon by making new account as example

just didntt have time lately tho so prob gonna be opening it sometitme

oh btw if u want other grass utility mon amoonguss is also good

also improves ur fairy MU as u wanted

[last yarrow]

I haven't gotten around to doing my PLA nuzlocke yet (Finding a way to do it for fun) and I doubt ppl are interested in some fairly basic shinies ;-;

[charred saddle]

but generally i think AV rilla can handle flutter really well

but yeah, its just an alternative. goodluck

[last yarrow]

Thank you! Most of my info is from wolfey's vids and what I've seen from people here, I think Ima reinvest some of the bulk EVs into speed on flutter

I appreciate the advice a ton, if I can't make a decent enough team I'll see if I can get me an ogerpon on trade ^_^

[autumn vault]

https://pokepast.es/856f3031bfb55ebd How is this team looking? This team is preparation of the top 10 bans format

Ogerpon is probably going since wellspring is succeeding so much

and yes those names are from Fire Emblem, except thief but i couldn't think of anything else

[charred saddle]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regfbo3-2092227636

sloppy end but gastro gapdos flamepon mindgame

[autumn vault]

That turn 2 play was really good

no wonder you won

And that metagross 1v3'd and won it

Granted one of them was sleeping but still

[autumn vault]

^

[charred saddle]

not familiar with all the mons

i dont even know if RM can still gets a play with fluttter all around

most run bulky spread

and idk if u can get value from that weird flamepon spread

i mean if u did ur calc, go ahead

[autumn vault]

I calc'd it to survive sludge bomb from Lando-I without tera poison

And it is a team for the top 10 ban format which is why it has weird options

[charred saddle]

then all the more reason for me not to say anything

i have no experience on it, id rather not say anything

[autumn vault]

Tbh i am not confident in Gamefreak to ban wellspring without banning all the other ogerpon forms

But Fucker Mane will 100% be banned so i am satisfied if it actually happens

[charred saddle]

and why are you so sure that itll be the next format?

[dull ibex]

anyone wanna practice?

[autumn vault]

I have my restricted team prepared

might aswell prepare for all the outcomes

[dull ibex]

banned from what

[autumn vault]

from the top 10 banned format

[dull ibex]

what top 10 banned format?

[autumn vault]

It was a format in SwSh that banned the top 10 from competitive play

[dull ibex]

oh they are not doing that again

that format was universally disliked

[autumn vault]

It applied to both singles and doubles so there were actually 16 bans for both and not 10 for singles and 10 for doubles

[dull ibex]

Gamefreak should never do anything banlist ever again

they horrendously botched that format

[autumn vault]

They are lazy what did you expect?

[dull ibex]

also bro it happening in swsh does not mean sv is getting one lmao

I dont believe for a second gamefreak is lazy

maybe a little imcompetent

[autumn vault]

It is still something to consider, and back then it didn't have any legends

[dull ibex]

what?

[autumn vault]

now there is and people want fucker mane and urshifu to be nerfed

[dull ibex]

what does legends have to do with anything

[autumn vault]

Being another category of pokemon

[dull ibex]

we are about to enter restricted format why would they do that now

that makes very little sense to do NOW

[autumn vault]

true

[dull ibex]

also flutter isnt even that bad

urshifu is big dumb

[mighty stump]

Urshifu isn't even that bad anymore

[autumn vault]

I just dont like being swept by a dazzling gleam and moonblast pokemon with 135 SpA (reg B and C flashbacks)

and bolt exists so urshifu is automatically worse

[dull ibex]

im gonna be real thats kind of a skill issue

[dull ibex]

fair

season 6 btw

that was the ban list format

I genuinely quit for a whole format when that happened lmao

tofu are you opposed to a 1v1? I want practice against better players then me

[mighty stump]

Uh

Sure

Hold on

[dull ibex]

im on main "redstonejesus"

I think I did just about everything wrong lmao

[mighty stump]

Lol

[dull ibex]

hmmmm

anything I should work on?

[mighty stump]

Eh

You played standard enough

I think you just couldn't make the right plays to try and break through

[dull ibex]

this might be an expirence thing

[mighty stump]

If you noticed I slowly just whittled you down rather than do anything much

[dull ibex]

yeah you chipped me down alot

[mighty stump]

There were a couple of switches that could have been capitalised on if you made more aggressive reads and just identifying them since after a bit there should be an awareness theres a losing spot

[dull ibex]

I would recognize a switch and why it happened after it happened I have to work on foresight

[mighty stump]

Also G2 was just a wack lead

[dull ibex]

yeah that was not the play

[mighty stump]

and not Protecting Chien-Pao was poor

[dull ibex]

I didnt know what to do under tr tbh

that was an issue I noticed

[mighty stump]

It's also a rougher MU

[dull ibex]

yeah that was a bit rough

[mighty stump]

A lot of the time there was rarely any damage coming out from your end

So yea

I think theres some deduction that could be worked in the sense of making plays that will punish the "non-safe" play

and be whatever in the safe play scenario

Like T1

I would just click EP or set Sub on Lando-I in game 1

It would hvae punished on the off chance I didnt Fake Out your Lando-I

Stuff like that

[dull ibex]

hmmm that's fair enough tbh

do you know chien pao does for this team btw

is it just damage?

[mighty stump]

Enables a lot of the mons on the team and is just good into things like Lando-I/opposing Flutter/Raging bolt

[dull ibex]

I wish this team had more documentation and a video or something

[dull ibex]

hmmmmm okay fair enough

[mighty stump]

On twitter theres a bunch of rentals/reports, just in japanese

of this exact team

[dull ibex]

yeahhh I was hoping one of the bigger creators in english covered it in a video

[mighty stump]

Just watch the Vancouver finals

[dull ibex]

fair

[mighty stump]

Observe how Brady played

[dull ibex]

mhm mhm

[mighty stump]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqKGlq-R8gg

[dull ibex]

I have it on right now lmao

im gonna start a vc I dont care if anyone joins

https://discord.com/channels/663661005514997770/1223459839028629676 in case there is interest

[true niche]

hear me out: physical suicune

[bold geode]

Not bigger but here's the video with how I found it
https://youtu.be/MJKx9k81RfU?si=qjMRt0S6p7UQLR2G

[upbeat quail]

I’m getting so tilted and idk how to take breaks from comp

[deep timber]

Can anybody give me tips on how to pick two good lead Pokémon for every match I play?

[polar canyon]

You get bored and find other interests

[polar canyon]

It does depend on what you plan on using but when building teams you tend to have the leads you might use in mind I think

[mighty stump]

It's based off your own gameplan. If you only lead reactively, you're just playing relative to how the opponent plays

Which means you cannot exert as much control on the match, and also requires a lot more informational processing

[polar canyon]

First time playing in cart in a while

Damn it really is true

[mighty stump]

That doesn't mean "ignore the opponent"

[polar canyon]

Intimidate sending the eject pack torkoal out before drought activates really is a showdown bug

[mighty stump]

Youre still accounting for what they do

[polar canyon]

You often have at the very least 2 different planned leads with a set team

[bold geode]

Damn
I just be like "what's the best lead for what they got"
Then again, basic balance kinda like

[mighty stump]

Even with Balance you've identified what carry should be your anchor to win the game

[ebon hawk]

tried meteor beam armarouge and its fantastic

[autumn vault]

I have a million questions

[foggy lodge]

The story team😭😭

[last yarrow]

https://pokepast.es/d557e7ff4a0a2515

suggested tera types for my 'mons? Gonna make it for the in-game ladder & don't have DLC so ogerpon is off the table sadly ;-;

[last yarrow]

still working on the EVs but it's gotten some wins :3

[molten oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/cockroach-spin-dancing-cockroach-gif-17373945

[dull ibex]

I struggle with not doing this

[charred saddle]

chiyu ghost

since chi flutter lead is quite good and having both ghost means no FO from opposing,

ttorn can also get ghost to prevent FO and not losing sash

amoonguss can do with water or fire, idk about tusk

[last yarrow]

Alrighty, tysm! Noticed grassy surge being an issue with tusk so was thinking about tera fire

[gentle crag]

flooferdooper6 has given 1 Gen Rep to abused1

[charred saddle]

fire is good yeah, also resists fairy and preventts burns from WoW

i just dk if itll help you in some other MU like urshifus

i mean it is faster than urshifu with scarf, but u cant really Ko it

[next stump]

does anyone have the image that shows the elo thresholds from the last global challenge?

[craggy dagger]

uh-
chi yu might want sash
tornadus can run tera steel covert so it that FO doesn’t do much-
shroom usually runs tera water
tusk can run whatever you think is best-

[last yarrow]

Also I genuinely appreciate that you're not immediately saying to use ogerpon like pretty much everyone else does, at this point I'm not using it out of spite and not just because I don't have it

[craggy dagger]

tbf-
ogerpon is good but it shouldn’t be forced into every team

[charred saddle]

uhhh i always wanna bring my ogerpons

i love my ogerpon families

[craggy dagger]

i use pon for redirect synergy that’s it

[last yarrow]

didn't realize covert prevented fake out, I'ma use that instead then

[craggy dagger]

and then you can run steel to resist rock and ice moves :0

and be neutral to electric

[last yarrow]

Also feel free to copy & edit it if y'all want, it's pretty fun to use imo

[charred saddle]

all i have is this image from back then i dont remember when

[next stump]

I found it, but thank you 🙂

[charred saddle]

just keep in mind if ur using covert u might want a more bulkiear EV spread

ahh ok

why does the threshold gets lower tho?

[last yarrow]

is investing in HP or the defensive stats a better idea for bulky spreads?

[charred saddle]

is it due to more players getting to VGC?

[next stump]

less people play usually in global challenge 3 compared to 1

because global challenge 1 has all of the japanese players competing for worlds, whereas global challenge 2 and 3 is missing the good japanese players who already qualified from global challenge 1 or 2

[charred saddle]

i usually calced for specific MU or a benchmark,

but generally def or sp def gets more value,
HP does get more overall spread,

but then again, the lower stats u have will get more value when you invest on it

[molten oasis]

Ogerpon is just generally really good

[charred saddle]

but others can have a better advice for that, take my words with a grain of salt.

im not experienced on this

[molten oasis]

And there’s variety

So it’s like, no it doesn’t need to be on every team but it’s a really valuable tool

Ogerpon helps me with a good chunk of my mu’s on my team

[charred saddle]

id just say pon is versatile

4 forms, differentt typings and have a lot of sets to play with

[molten oasis]

I do think that like

Even with Hearthflame, icy cudgel wood hammer/horn leech follow me and spiky shield is the most consistent set

Swords dance sets being close as well

And I’ve seen some stomping tantrum Hearthflame running around

Which is nice cuz that lets you hit bolt

[foggy lodge]

His movepool is dumb

[molten oasis]

Follow me was wild

[foggy lodge]

Her*

[molten oasis]

Cannot believe they gave that to her

And then swords dance

Insane coverage options

[foggy lodge]

But like, many moves have been used with Ogerpon, Ivy Cudgel, Grassy Glide, Wood Hammer, Horn Leech, Spiky, Follow Me, Low kick, Swords dance

[molten oasis]

Superpower not really low kick

Oh yea the grassy glide variants lol

As stupid as the movepool is

It makes for a really versatile Mon and I like what it can offer to the table

[foggy lodge]

I saw a heathflame in day 2 of a regional running low kick

[molten oasis]

When

[foggy lodge]

And for a time more people used it

[molten oasis]

How long ago

[foggy lodge]

It was in reg E still, now nobody uses it

But i still take it into consideration

[molten oasis]

Well yea cuz I don’t see a reason to low kick when you have superpower

[foggy lodge]

Ogerpon has play rough too?

[molten oasis]

yea

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 1017: Ogerpon

Type

Grass

Abilities

Defiant

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

80/120/84/60/96/110

Total

550

Weight (Low Kick BP)

39.8kg (60 BP)

Height

1.2m

Introduced

Generation 9

Other Formes

Ogerpon-Wellspring, Ogerpon-Hearthflame, Ogerpon-Cornerstone, Ogerpon-Teal-Tera, Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera, Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera, Ogerpon-Cornerstone-Tera

Egg groups

Undiscovered

Gender Ratio

F: 100%

Color

Green

SableyeBot version 4.26.2

[molten oasis]

It doesn’t run it tho

[foggy lodge]

Wa

[dapper crag]

Ogerpon-Hearthflame's moveset:

Physical Moves

Brick Break, Bullet Seed, Counter, Double Kick, Facade, False Swipe, Fling, Giga Impact, Grassy Glide, Horn Leech, Ivy Cudgel, Knock Off, Lash Out, Low Kick, Low Sweep, Play Rough, Power Whip, Quick Attack, Retaliate, Reversal, Rock Tomb, Seed Bomb, Slam, Solar Blade, Stomping Tantrum, Superpower, Take Down, Throat Chop, Trailblaze, U-turn, Vine Whip, Wood Hammer, Zen Headbutt

Special Moves

Energy Ball, Giga Drain, Grass Knot, Leaf Storm, Magical Leaf, Solar Beam, Tera Blast

Status Moves

Charm, Encore, Endure, Focus Energy, Follow Me, Grassy Terrain, Growth, Helping Hand, Leech Seed, Protect, Rain Dance, Rest, Sandstorm, Scary Face, Sleep Talk, Spikes, Spiky Shield, Substitute, Sunny Day, Swords Dance, Synthesis, Taunt

Notes

A move displayed with Bold text benefits from Same-Type Attack Bonus when used by Ogerpon-Hearthflame.

SableyeBot version 4.26.2

[molten oasis]

Knock off

[foggy lodge]

It has U-turn???

[molten oasis]

Play rough

U-turn

[foggy lodge]

Taunt

[molten oasis]

Throat chop

Encore

Helping hand

[foggy lodge]

Stomping too

[molten oasis]

Yea, good coverage

Maybe someday I’ll fidget with the concept of just doing fire fairy coverage on Hearthflame

Or do 3 attack pon

Fire fairy grass

[dapper crag]

Fire, Fairy, Grass

Hits for 0.5x

Fire

Hits for 1x

Electric, Fairy, Flying, Ghost, Normal, Poison, Psychic, Stellar

Hits for 2x

Bug, Dark, Dragon, Fighting, Grass, Ground, Ice, Rock, Steel, Water

SableyeBot version 4.26.2

[molten oasis]

oh, nvm stomping tantrum lol

[last yarrow]

yeah covert cloak on tornadus was an amazing idea tysm

[atomic star]

What do u guys rate blood moon ursaluna out of ten?

[charred saddle]

8

[ebon hawk]

is it worth to do raging bolt balance rn?

[foggy lodge]

It's always worth it

[bold geode]

Absolutely

Once again

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 1021: Raging Bolt

Types

Electric/Dragon

Abilities

Protosynthesis

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

125/73/91/137/89/75

Total

590

SableyeBot version 4.26.2

[bold geode]

Do you see those stats

[ebon hawk]

can u send me the paste cuz ion have it

[ebon hawk]

crazy

[bold geode]

Are you looking into the Japan style one? (Brady also ran the 6 in Vancouver but different moves on some)

[ebon hawk]

idk i have to see the difference and decide

japan style is the one i saw

[bold geode]

https://pokepast.es/6a198386211f8c1b

Here

[charred saddle]

bitch

[bold geode]

The fuck you want

[charred saddle]

fight me

[mighty stump]

Oo

sets

Fite me

[bold geode]

Working

[dull ibex]

ill fight someone lmao

[ebon hawk]

thanks ill try it tmrw

[gentle crag]

yostxly has given 1 Gen Rep to dollarmonke

[mighty stump]

Ok

[charred saddle]

fight me

[mighty stump]

WoodTofu

[charred saddle]

the best indonesian wins

[mighty stump]

Rn

[dull ibex]

👀

[mighty stump]

Yng kalah pindah agama

[charred saddle]

ANJG

[mighty stump]

Islam

Lgsg puasa

[charred saddle]

KAWOKWOKWAOAWKOWAKOAW

lg moleg

[mighty stump]

Wait lemme fight red first

[bold geode]

The fuck

[charred saddle]

yes u fight red

[dull ibex]

https://discord.com/channels/663661005514997770/1223633857543405669

cowards

[foggy lodge]

Triple hijueputa

[dull ibex]

wtf is this

[mighty stump]

Good luck

[dull ibex]

join vc cowards

[mighty stump]

Lmao

[dull ibex]

Idk how to fight ice teams ngl

[molten oasis]

You’re running ice tofu?

[mighty stump]

Snow is the hardest counter to JPN Shell

Lol

[molten oasis]

Oh, yea it is lol

[mighty stump]

[bold geode]

Yeah snow fucks Japan shell hard

[mighty stump]

Mika's 2-2-2 ver basically just fucks it harder

[molten oasis]

Yea

Snow and then dozo to clean up, or crown

Is cruel

[mighty stump]

I took it for my NPAA match and 2-0'd them

[dull ibex]

how do I deal with that team

[mighty stump]

Lmao

[mighty stump]

Youre forced to lead Incin/Urshifu + Rilla/Chien

and pray

Lmao

[molten oasis]

Go on the offensive lol

It’s your only hope

[dull ibex]

fair enough

so some of that was beyond me

[molten oasis]

Yea, its just a really bad mu

[dull ibex]

neat

[molten oasis]

I think some variant of the shell balance teams use gholdengo over, I believe lando or pao

So that that mu isn’t as bad

[dull ibex]

if you can find it lmao

[molten oasis]

I just remember seeing some random paste somewhere i don’t have one tho lol

[atomic mural]

https://pokepast.es/cd5495d87e0fcb51 I think this works as a hypothetical

[molten oasis]

heatran?

[dull ibex]

leans too heavy into sun

[molten oasis]

Why not go ogerpon Hearthflame and have double grass

Grass spam

[dull ibex]

I would not lean that heavy into sun ngl

[polar canyon]

Wyd when torn ogre

[foggy lodge]

Booster energy on Flutter Mane

Ah wait i forgot Koraidon ability

Focus sash

[charred saddle]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regfbo3-2092471728

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regfbo3-2092474554

im starting to like the gapdos gastro firepon haha

[fluid wind]

https://pokepast.es/cc6e59c0c39a7d14 doing good with this team so far but do yall think

[upbeat quail]

Can we make snorlax work in vgc?

[upbeat quail]

Have you been able to get belly drum off consistently? It seems risky

[fluid wind]

yea i first tr and protect then hoping indeedee lives i then follow me and belly drum then if indeedee lives again i just helping hands snorlax

[molten oasis]

Tf was that team lol

[charred saddle]

idk but tbf itts kinda scary

like i dont have any speed control for the blaziken

[molten oasis]

I was half expecting coaching gimmicks at first

[charred saddle]

idk any of those mons haha, it was OTS so ye

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9randombattle-2092533593

very fun

[molten oasis]

Pfff lmfao

[solid frigate]

should i go for and make a Restricted Legendary Tier List

but as a Video?

[mild wolf]

Generally - is it reccomended to run a gyarados with intimidate or moxie?

[foggy lodge]

Depends

I think a balance team would be better with a Intimidate gyarados

A sweeper gyarados with things like dragon dance would be better with moxie

[bold geode]

Nah, Intimidate just better regardless

[molten oasis]

Gyarados is a supportive intimdiate

Idt you run ddance on it especially with the presence of bolt

[upbeat quail]

Holy crap… I just got a double OHKO on a flutter mane and fairy Tera raging bolt both with full health

Flutter mane with Choice specs, helping hand from Torkoal, and proto sun boost dazzling gleam is so strong.

[lofty tartan]

Thanks for the shout-out, dad

[wooden gazelle]

how can I improve this team

im keeping sinistcha and archaludon since i already ev trained them in sv and im kinda lazy but unless they're literally that bad

https://pokepast.es/8fb7de8f77094c15

[lofty tartan]

I will note it's a little easier to get a read on how the team is built if the paste isn't in OTS format.

But off the top - Air Balloon Gholdengo is pretty mid. You probably want something for recovery on him.

Sitrus, Lefties, etc.

But Air Balloon doesn't do a lot - gets popped and you still eat a Ground move.

[wooden gazelle]

ight thx

should i teach him recover

here not ots

[lofty tartan]

No. You don't want to do that - a Sitrus Berry or Leftovers should be sufficient. I prefer Sitrus most times due to burst healing, and you've got Sinistcha to help support it.

[wooden gazelle]

https://pokepast.es/94ab334d5c0bd160

[lofty tartan]

Additionally, remove Psyshock for Protect.

[wooden gazelle]

k

[lofty tartan]

Ah yeah you'd probably want to actually take a look at some EVs. 252/252 is fine most times, but with a Nasty Plot Gholdengo, for example, 252/252 spA/Spe and no bulk is gonna be a rough time.

[wooden gazelle]

k bet

[lofty tartan]

Are you relatively new to VGC?

[wooden gazelle]

yeah kinda

[lofty tartan]

No worries

[gentle crag]

Here is a list of all of the resources I find most helpful when playing/learning VGC:

https://www.vgcguide.com/ (Helpful website for basics and also to get your feet wet)

https://www.pikalytics.com/ (Shows you usage data and helps you build Pokémon)

https://nerd-of-now.github.io/NCP-VGC-Damage-Calculator/ (Damage calculator that is very helpful when building teams or reflecting on games)

https://youtube.com/c/CybertronVGC (Best channel for daily VGC content, guiding you through the thought process you need for success)

https://victoryroadvgc.com/ (Tournament results, team reports and breakdowns, and rental codes can be found here)

https://twitter.com/VGCPastes - Tournament and high ranked teams

https://twitter.com/vgccorner - Helpful Twitter account that posts in-depth EV spreads and ideas about competitive pokemon

There are dozens of other resources, some of which are in the pinned messages of this channel. But these IMO are the best places to start absorbing knowledge and getting to a place where you're comfortable with VGC

mlbd (ID 197813560997314562)

[Embed Link](#competitive_discussion message) to #competitive_discussion

Command triggered by dazedmika. Message from · Dec 17, 2023, 7:30 PM

[wooden gazelle]

woah

[lofty tartan]

At frist this looks really overwhelming - basically it's a lot of resources that you can dig into to help you get your feet under you.

[wooden gazelle]

k bet ima read up

[lofty tartan]

There's some good video content linked here too.

CybertronVGC is a really incredible source of informative content.

[wooden gazelle]

k thx bro

[lofty tartan]

He talks about EVs, team intent, strengths and weaknesses, etc. He's done a few Archaludon teams recently too

[wooden gazelle]

ok thats cool

[lofty tartan]

Archa's pretty strong right now, so consider leaning into it.

[wooden gazelle]

k

[solid frigate]

Archaludon based

[craggy dagger]

archaludon is great

[molten oasis]

Archaludon is cool

https://tenor.com/view/archaludon-pokemon-nintendo-pokémon-gif-16734536304579141225

[craggy dagger]

although i’m still on the latis express

[solid frigate]

its shiny is very good i like it

[dull ibex]

I have great news

I'm out of great ball hell and into ultra ball hell

[solid frigate]

Noice but good luck

[craggy dagger]

what’s great and ultra ball hell?
i’m still stuck in pokeball

[solid frigate]

oh yeah if you actually avalible to give me Tornadus you can just type it into DMs

[solid frigate]

I think i am in Great Ball rn

yeah great ball rank 7

[patent anvil]

Ur in luxury ball

[solid frigate]

No i mean Pokemon SV comp ladder.

[bright ice]

Show me the tier list

[patent anvil]

Oh

[solid frigate]

?

[bright ice]

Show

Me

[solid frigate]

its just my speculation

[cyan smelt]

what about the origin forms

[solid frigate]

i kinda put them similarly than Regular but both would be in B tier

Giratina O is D tier still

[molten oasis]

Ok

[solid frigate]

[molten oasis]

When I get home I’ll get it to ya

[mighty stump]

Kyogre higher than Groudon is still criminal when Waterpon and Raging Bolt exist

[charred saddle]

groudon can now get STAB precipice times 2

and now heatcrash too

idk what im saying with the first statement so

[molten oasis]

This is the one I did

Idk what like, most of the c and b tier mons even do just a vague idea of how people have rated them in the past

[rustic mountain]

aaron is based

also how r we ranking restricteds b4 the format is even here

[charred saddle]

while we speculate on restricteds, i feel that bulky one can get value with tera

like its already hard to kill ie. giratina. and then u just go fairy

[rustic mountain]

issue is it lacks the damage others do

[molten oasis]

but, giratina is ass lol

[rustic mountain]

like can it compensate that w/ the tera to make it have as much or more value then better restricteds who also have access to tera

which idt it can

[molten oasis]

idt tera helps it nearly enough

[foggy lodge]

I leaned a consistent 60% damage combo with Squirtle let's gooo

[foggy lodge]

Would the origin be any better?

[dapper crag]

Giratina's moveset:

Physical Moves

Aerial Ace, Aqua Tail, Body Slam, Breaking Swipe, Brutal Swing, Bulldoze, Cut, Dragon Claw, Dragon Tail, Dual Wingbeat, Earthquake, Facade, Fly, Frustration, Fury Cutter, Giga Impact, Headbutt, Iron Head, Iron Tail, Natural Gift, Outrage, Payback, Phantom Force, Poltergeist, Return, Rock Smash, Secret Power, Shadow Claw, Shadow Force, Shadow Sneak, Skitter Smack, Slash, Steel Wing, Stone Edge, Strength, Take Down

Special Moves

Air Cutter, Ancient Power, Aura Sphere, Charge Beam, Dark Pulse, Draco Meteor, Dragon Breath, Dragon Pulse, Dream Eater, Earth Power, Echoed Voice, Energy Ball, Hex, Hidden Power, Hyper Beam, Hyper Voice, Icy Wind, Mud-Slap, Ominous Wind, Psychic, Round, Shadow Ball, Shock Wave, Silver Wind, Snore, Swift, Tera Blast, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Twister

Status Moves

Calm Mind, Confide, Confuse Ray, Curse, Defog, Destiny Bond, Double Team, Endure, Gravity, Heal Block, Hone Claws, Magic Coat, Pain Split, Protect, Psych Up, Rain Dance, Rest, Roar, Safeguard, Scary Face, Sleep Talk, Spite, Substitute, Sunny Day, Swagger, Tailwind, Telekinesis, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Will-O-Wisp

Notes

A move displayed with Bold text benefits from Same-Type Attack Bonus when used by Giratina.

SableyeBot version 4.26.2

[rustic mountain]

i mean itll be useable

[foggy lodge]

WHAT IS THAT MOVEPOOL

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 487: Giratina-Origin

Types

Ghost/Dragon

Abilities

Levitate

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

150/120/100/120/100/90

Total

680

Base Species

Giratina

SableyeBot version 4.26.2

[molten oasis]

thats ass

[rustic mountain]

but r u hurting urself using it vs better restricteds? 100%

[molten oasis]

first of all

120 in BOTH attack stats is garbage

second of all, that speed is very eh

the typing isnt great

[foggy lodge]

The bad thing about restricteds is that they sometimes they start to get centralized after some time

[rustic mountain]

always gna happen restricteds or not but yea

the better ones r gna b used more

[foggy lodge]

It doesn't learn trick room

[molten oasis]

its movepool istn exactly terrible but its most consisent moves are just not good on both the physical and special side

[foggy lodge]

It has that movepool and one of the moves that it needs most, it doesn't lesrn it

[rustic mountain]

gta look at it like its taking up 1 or 2 slots of what the restricted allowance is depending on the format and like why would i want giratina over caly shadow, zacian etc

[molten oasis]

youre wasting your restricted slot

in both double and single

[rustic mountain]

trick room isnt saving it

[molten oasis]

90 is

no lol

[foggy lodge]

No but i think it could at least help it

[rustic mountain]

it jus unfortunately doesnt stack up

[molten oasis]

why would you ever use giratina

when lunala, dusk mane, and caly ice exist

[charred saddle]

yeah, it was just an example thing

tera also opens to some other coverage with blst which makes it fun

[foggy lodge]

Ah also loses to half meta game

[rustic mountain]

yea im jus talking

[molten oasis]

flutter

[rustic mountain]

ik ur not saying its gna be goated

[foggy lodge]

Lucky mf that Xerneas didn't make the cut

[molten oasis]

shifu

etc.

i would NOT have played in xern was legal

xern is so fucking stupid

[rustic mountain]

me wen xerneas teras and my post tera check died:

[foggy lodge]

I never studied Xerneas

I started in this gen, let me see it

[molten oasis]

all you need to know

[rustic mountain]

itd b broken w/ tera

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 716: Xerneas

Type

Fairy

Abilities

Fairy Aura

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

126/131/95/131/98/99

Total

680

SableyeBot version 4.26.2

[foggy lodge]

Is the geomancy white herb set?

[rustic mountain]

yea

rarely will u see anything else

[molten oasis]

is power herb+geomancy (+2 in speed spD and spA), fairy aura boost fairy damage, and tera

[foggy lodge]

Bro i forgot the auras

[molten oasis]

zacian would check it at least

[foggy lodge]

I really think the 6 gen legendary were cut just by game balance

[molten oasis]

it doesnt want to eat behemoth balde

[foggy lodge]

Imagine Zygarde with tera

[rustic mountain]

xerneas after geomancy w/ fairy aura and fairy tera and chi yu next to it:

[molten oasis]

i am very happy

gen 6 legends didnt make it

because of xern

and ive never even played it

or playing against it

[rustic mountain]

in the past sure, not w/ tera access tho

u need 2 checks pre and post tera

[molten oasis]

you have to tera

and it would want steel fire or water

[charred saddle]

can you imagine fucking xern to a mane tho

[molten oasis]

which are ALL checked by ogerpon lol

[charred saddle]

beeg explosion

[foggy lodge]

Only thing i remember about gen 8 was that you had to bring like 4 Zacian checks

[molten oasis]

zacian was also

[rustic mountain]

so ur whole team?

[molten oasis]

170 attack

[foggy lodge]

Ur whole team + your 2 legendaries lol

[rustic mountain]

zacian was strong but 4 checks is crazy lmao

[molten oasis]

and was basically always +1

[foggy lodge]

It had always a choice band

[molten oasis]

ig

[foggy lodge]

Without any down side

[charred saddle]

it was very funny like zacian is so overwhelming compared to its counterpart

[molten oasis]

zama was doodoo lol

[charred saddle]

like zamazenta go!

zamazenta use uhhh coaching

[rustic mountain]

they gave the offensive mon the better defensive typing too

[molten oasis]

i think thats a part of what broke it

fairy steel is an incredible defensive typing

[charred saddle]

like rhe moment i watched gen 8 vgc

and goes to restricted

i was like, what the fuck is this fucking dog

every move is either neutral or resist

[rustic mountain]

zama i think is better this gen but still outclassed by a lot of other restricteds

[molten oasis]

and then like, yes you dont get to hit fire and steel with your stab

but also, it has great coverage and a swords dance set just doenst care

[foggy lodge]

Only 2 weakness that can be checked by its partners

[molten oasis]

water types are often common partners for zac

take, zacogre for example

you have a partner that checks fire and ground types while zacian can just demolish most of kyogre's issues

nowadays i think zacian and wellspring will be a good combo

[rustic mountain]

wellspring generally fits into most teams

[foggy lodge]

Redirection

[molten oasis]

its still a really good partner for zac

[foggy lodge]

💀

[rustic mountain]

never said it wasnt

[molten oasis]

you now have a water grass type follow me mon

[rustic mountain]

jus like its an obvious thing to say haha

[molten oasis]

fair

[charred saddle]

tree have u seen my new recipes

gapdos firepon gastro combo fun

[foggy lodge]

Are there any announcements about reg G?

[molten oasis]

yall know mine lmao

[rustic mountain]

i do think w/ speculating restricteds, single and double play a huge factor. ogre in single restricted is worse then double restricted imo

[rustic mountain]

seems cool, i like gapdos

[molten oasis]

kyogre?

[rustic mountain]

ogre=kyogre oger= ogerpon

[molten oasis]

k

[rustic mountain]

i think ogerpon will b good regardless

jus a solid mon

[molten oasis]

hearthflame just checks zacian

nuke button mon lmao

[charred saddle]

yes yes.

firepon can safely tera since gastro is taking care of opposing water moves

waterpon are forced to tera infront of gapdos.

+1 hornleech guarantees ohko to waterpon even max max

gastro yawn pressure is also very nice

gapdos firepon for intim leqds too

[rustic mountain]

yea i love gastro

only issue ive had w/ it is its lack of damage

[charred saddle]

yeah

[rustic mountain]

but if u can position correctly to take advantage w/ ur partner

[charred saddle]

but with the prevalence of enemy clicking water with me swtiching gastro in, +1 sp A goes a long way

[molten oasis]

oh

[rustic mountain]

def can get some oppressive board states

[molten oasis]

primarina and gapdos won a MSS

[charred saddle]

oh ye ye

[rustic mountain]

especially yawn cycling

predicting switches, etc

[charred saddle]

yep, forced to play into switch or like take the sleep

[rustic mountain]

gastro only gets better in restricted formats, same w/ like umbreon

[molten oasis]

check this out

[charred saddle]

yeah, with kyogre in gastro and waterpon gets value

[molten oasis]

I generally think people are picking up on gapdos

[rustic mountain]

yea it makes it easier to jusify its role and the value ur getting from it

[molten oasis]

im seeing it more and more

[charred saddle]

tbf i was looking on other partner for firepon

and then i saw ur team at rentals

[molten oasis]

shifu is still the overall better scarf fighting type

[charred saddle]

i was like, "damn, yoink"

[rustic mountain]

i remember awhile back @dense lion was on the gapdos train

before i was seeing it anywhere

[charred saddle]

flying type is insane tho

[molten oasis]

ive been playing gapdos for about a month now

along with primarina, theyre really really solid mons

[charred saddle]

and like the shit thing with both type shifus now, people now underatand how to play around shifu

[rustic mountain]

i should use the shiny one i have from swsh

[charred saddle]

but not gapdos

[charred saddle]

u hab?

[molten oasis]

even then

[charred saddle]

gib me plz

[molten oasis]

i think that gapdos is just, strong

[rustic mountain]

yea i did the online thing for it

[molten oasis]

you have CONSISTENT flying damage

[charred saddle]

shittt

i didnt play back on gen 8 fuakk

[rustic mountain]

[molten oasis]

which the only thing closest to that is rain bleakwind

[charred saddle]

oh ye ye

[molten oasis]

and brave bird just, wipes all of the grass and fighting types

[charred saddle]

was quite tempted to use torn as the lst slot back then

but raindance is reducing firepon output

[molten oasis]

and then you have fighting coverage

[charred saddle]

which makes me say no

[molten oasis]

like, its so good offensively

[charred saddle]

ye

[molten oasis]

and then since like

your play into primarina sometimes is snarl spam

i have a fast defiant mon sitting in the back

so i can have a +2 gapdos on the field if i read you correctly lol

[charred saddle]

hm

im just thinking on what i can use as alternative for my team

[rustic mountain]

i mean good players r gna be aware of that

[molten oasis]

for what

[rustic mountain]

but yea u can catch ppl sometimes

[molten oasis]

ive caught good players with moves to nerf prima's damage output

[charred saddle]

https://pokepast.es/bb188b253082ceb6

i feel like i wanna change tinglu or fari for some speed control thing to gain more advantage but then both fari and tinglu covers a niche

[molten oasis]

i took 2 sets off of tofu with this team

against an eerie impulse p2

and snarl bolt

its timing mostly

cuz infront of bolt i can just lose gapdos

[rustic mountain]

idk about their decision skills to call em a good player then haha usually ur not gna waste time snarling something that resists that also can activate a defiant mon in the back. jus too risky of a choice to make in most cases. every turn is a weighted decision. good players make consistent plays that generally dont outright lose them the game or put them in a horrendous spot

[molten oasis]

they still do it

[dense lion]

Wait is it used widely now?

[rustic mountain]

gta disagree

[rustic mountain]

a lot more used now yea

[molten oasis]

its picking up in usage

[dense lion]

I never miss

[charred saddle]

but letting CM prima set up is kinda not good too

[molten oasis]

its a mindagme

[dense lion]

I predicted nacl before in early seasons too

[charred saddle]

like just 1 set of CM can just bonk the team

[molten oasis]

you either let prima set up

or you give gapdos +2

[charred saddle]

snarl is just to make sure the prima doesnt get as much value

but then ye gapdso

i think also back then i was thinking of tealpon and prima

but then it doesnt work out

ass coverage move

[molten oasis]

and then gapdos also checks the grass types that threaten it

[rustic mountain]

ofc its a mindgame but like, in what world is someone snarling knowing that. if calm mind is such a threat they r gna exert pressure into that slot to force the tera or make sure u protect and arent calm minding to even have them need to snarl in the first place. like thats not a hard line to take in most cases

[molten oasis]

people still click snarl with that potential threat in the back

[rustic mountain]

ik im not saying they dont, im saying good players generally rnt gna fall for that specifically

[molten oasis]

primarina is generally such an issue if set up

[rustic mountain]

i am not a prim believer this gen

[molten oasis]

im a reg f prima believer

[rustic mountain]

ye i mean def other ppl think its good

[molten oasis]

cuz i think it just dies starting in restricted lol

[rustic mountain]

i jus personally dont see it

[charred saddle]

im a reg F GC shiny ruin pokemon believer

[molten oasis]

lol

[charred saddle]

btw is this GC still same ass reward?

[molten oasis]

yea

[charred saddle]

good

[molten oasis]

im hoping the next batch of these are better

[charred saddle]

since i dont get time to play

[rustic mountain]

it was 3 gcs wat ruin legend is getting left out?

[charred saddle]

do 4 GCs then ez

[molten oasis]

wo chien cuz its ass lol

[rustic mountain]

[dense lion]

Did you need me for anything or are you just pinging me to point it out lol

[molten oasis]

with prima, ive made it feel pretty solid and strong, but OBVIOUSLY theres better calm mind mons

[rustic mountain]

oh my b, jus pinged to show u ur call was on point

[molten oasis]

bolt is the best one

[rustic mountain]

which is the one im using atm lmao

[dense lion]

Yeah my calls are always on point

[molten oasis]

fluttermane is a stupid mon, and can also calm mind

bloodmoon also gets calm mind

[charred saddle]

whats ur next call

[rustic mountain]

never had a wrong call, yep

[dense lion]

Idk I haven’t played comp in months

[rustic mountain]

[molten oasis]

lol

[rustic mountain]

nah but fr, grant has had quite a few good calls

scream tail b4 it won big, iron jugulis, gapdos

[dense lion]

Yeah I forgot how many it’s been

[rustic mountain]

a few others

[molten oasis]

i think one of the things prima brings to the table that like, flutter for example doesnt is a great defensive typing and better bulk

water fairy is both great offensively and defensively

[rustic mountain]

prim has positives

[molten oasis]

it has flaws (paper defense and, not great speed)

[rustic mountain]

i jus think too much threatens it and its a tera hog and needs set up to get good value. the meta rn doesnt favor it

but thats jus my take

other ppl obviously feel different

[molten oasis]

its problems are like, ogerpons rilla and bolt

[charred saddle]

yeah, rilla bonks it

[rustic mountain]

and have had ok success w/ it but it doesnt seem to really get much placement in big tours

[charred saddle]

but then rilla pickrate is dropping due to incin tbf

[molten oasis]

rilla also doesnt want to see what is imo is prima's best partner hearthflame

[rustic mountain]

rilla has fluctuated but its not b/c of incin

incin and rilla co exist

[charred saddle]

it does, but now people who opted to only 1 FO incin is kinda the easier choice with its utility

[rustic mountain]

theres jus more options for grass types now

[dense lion]

Oh garganacl, and I predicted waterpon to be the best one when oger got released

[charred saddle]

not saying it dropped far, but compared to before incin came in

[rustic mountain]

yes

[molten oasis]

if you want a fo mon usually you go straight to incin

[charred saddle]

rilla hits like 16% rate at regionals, but then doesnt seem to be there again with incin in

[rustic mountain]

i think its more waterpon based then incin based

[charred saddle]

its there but less picked

yeah thats true ig

[molten oasis]

i think its both ogerpons

[rustic mountain]

ppl r optin for that as their grass type which also is water so ur condensing ur fwg core

[charred saddle]

i mean the meta picks are based on the other picks

[molten oasis]

hearth and wellspring are both just

[charred saddle]

ye

[molten oasis]

really strong rn

[rustic mountain]

yea i jus dont see rilla useage correlating w/ incins

i dont think them as mainly support mons clash in threatening each others position

[molten oasis]

i see hearth and wellspring as different kinds of supports if theyre running follow me

in wellsprings case youre tankier

in hearthflames case you have a nuke option

[rustic mountain]

hearth w. follow me is weird like i get it but i also would never run it

[molten oasis]

i think wellspring is the better follow me mon

[rustic mountain]

its no debate

100% is

[molten oasis]

i think hearthflame can also run it and be fine

[rustic mountain]

it can and has, again i jus personally wouldnt run it

[molten oasis]

thats fair

[rustic mountain]

it has its uses i jus find like sd for example far more beneficial and in an ots enviornment offers more pressure for the mon

even in cts u can take advantage of passive play so much

even like stomping tantrum is better to me

[molten oasis]

cts is also a semi different gameplan

[rustic mountain]

for coverage into bolt pre tera

[molten oasis]

you dont need to adjust

[charred saddle]

hear me out, bulky rockpon

[rustic mountain]

[molten oasis]

go play tr

[charred saddle]

bulky follow me rockpon

[molten oasis]

thats where the cornerstones live

[rustic mountain]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/488/663/223.jpg

[molten oasis]

ok i also do just, like using mons that i see potential in and mons in somewhat different ways (if the option is available)

i dont tend to run hard meta teams mid/late regs

[rustic mountain]

nothing wrong w/ that

[molten oasis]

early i do cuz its learning

[rustic mountain]

id say im mostly meta pilled

but i do use underused mons sometimes

[molten oasis]

nothing wrong w/ that either

i do wish there was more exploration

[rustic mountain]

reg f has been a rollercoaster tbh

[molten oasis]

things pop up left and right tbh

i think cressluna is having a bit of a resurgence

[charred saddle]

didnt cressluna get to top 1 recently?

[molten oasis]

i think so? i dont quite remember

[charred saddle]

i just knew it got something but idr what is it

[rustic mountain]

i do think its niice to have a forced close on regs, like if u keep something going (unless it was big 6 era b4 my time as a comp player) things r jus gna keep adapting and adjusting to counter whats strongest, and itd just be an endless cycle

[molten oasis]

you need a meta shift yea

[rustic mountain]

and i say that as someone who hates how short some formats have been, like reg f honestly. feels like a sweet spot, not too short but not too long

[charred saddle]

why are you sayng like reg f is gone soon

is it changing soon?

[molten oasis]

we have a month left

[charred saddle]

fuck i havent played

[molten oasis]

and we should be getting the reg g announcement soon

meaning showdown will have said format as well

which means a good chunk of players stop caring for reg f and go start learning reg g

[rustic mountain]

its been 3 months

[charred saddle]

i uhh

been cooking at the kitchen for too long it seems

[rustic mountain]

[charred saddle]

i havent found a team i really like to put to cart

[molten oasis]

i havent played cart like at all this reg

cts sucks

[rustic mountain]

do u yoink teams or u build ur own ?

i dont mean rentals either

cuz i yoink teams and jus rebuild them shiny on cart

[charred saddle]

oh u mean like yoink teams but made it my own

oo, i only started at the last month of reg E

[rustic mountain]

ahh gotcha

[molten oasis]

like officially?

[charred saddle]

i started by making my own team

yes

[molten oasis]

i had no idea

[charred saddle]

i just yoink top 10 mons from regionals and call it my team

[molten oasis]

if i were to go play any kind of meta team rn

[rustic mountain]

honestly, id recommend taking ppls teams first. cuz like, u dont really even know wat playstyle u might prefer/be more geared towards w/o getting a lot of games under ur belt

[molten oasis]

id either learn gouging fire stuff or play cm bolt

[charred saddle]

#rental_teams message

this one

[gentle crag]

abused1 (ID 1060975738678947880)

[Message](#rental_teams message) in #rental_teams
Name : Meta
Format : Reg E
Paste : https://pokepast.es/9dddceb0cd8165ba
Code : JV591P
Notes : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zdYJuiKiogcL5NydlU4Vka8-B-fXUXlJoqzHLiehwfg/edit?usp=sharing

Command triggered by abused1. Message from · Nov 10, 2023, 6:08 AM

[molten oasis]

eww fluttermane

[charred saddle]

i hit quite high back then, top 23

[molten oasis]

and torn

[rustic mountain]

like u think u like tr and then u play balance for awhile and ur like wait i actually like this way more cuz u understand it on a different level. not saying thatll happen but yea

[charred saddle]

u can see the EV spread so ass hahah

[charred saddle]

oh i tried a lot of teams before officially puting it to cart

[molten oasis]

that was me going from gouging fire to set up balance lol

[rustic mountain]

yea i mean it happens

[molten oasis]

gouging fire doesnt click for me

[charred saddle]

i tried tr psyspam koal team back then

but i dont really inderstand some of the plays

[rustic mountain]

[molten oasis]

lmao

[rustic mountain]

yea i jus mean in general tho, like reg e wasnt that long ago

[charred saddle]

yep

[rustic mountain]

idk atleast for me it took a few formats to really get a good grasp on vgc

[charred saddle]

i mean i watched from gen 8 so it helped wuite a lot

[rustic mountain]

even tho i was hitting mball rank 1st season and winning games like it was such a different level

thats good

[charred saddle]

i hit mb first season i played too

[rustic mountain]

nice

[charred saddle]

then hit 23rd, but it was still quite early on the season

[rustic mountain]

i used some shitty tr dhelmise wp team w/ eviolite slowpoke

[charred saddle]

but yeah still cool hehe

[rustic mountain]

(i built it myself)

[charred saddle]

the fuck is dhelmise

[rustic mountain]

lmao

[charred saddle]

is it the anchor thing

[rustic mountain]

yea

[charred saddle]

bro i never saw that in swsh

it was a cool mon tho

[rustic mountain]

its a rare spawn

[charred saddle]

nono i mean like in vgc

i didnt play swsh

only watched cybertron vgc

[rustic mountain]

oh yea it was dogwater mostly but it had useage in series 6 wen they banned the top mons

[charred saddle]

thats where i got introduced to it

[molten oasis]

https://pokepast.es/99312831ad5005b2 I’m considering switching to gouging fire for reg g this is why

[rustic mountain]

i was the new vgc player trynna b quirky and creative using an underused mon

took me a bit to realize i was jus hurting myself using shit mons

[molten oasis]

That took me 6 months

[charred saddle]

why not max speed gf?

[molten oasis]

I think it’s unnecessary

[rustic mountain]

prolly dont need it to outspeed most things w/ booster

[molten oasis]

i outspeed shifu

[rustic mountain]

idk wat speed tiers it hits cuz i dont use it but yea id imagine theres a benchmark u hit and thats it

[molten oasis]

good enough imo

[charred saddle]

yeah, thats what i thought, but it is quite bad since ur losing all GF MU

since most Gf runs max speed

i did also mine quite similar to it

[molten oasis]

im running it with zac

opposing doesnt eat +2 play rough

[rustic mountain]

yea thats a fair consideration but would depend how common it is in reg g

[molten oasis]

i think

[charred saddle]

https://pokepast.es/1ba6d514faf3a817

that was back then

[rustic mountain]

hard to say wen we dont even know the format

[molten oasis]

it might actually

idk how good anything will be

[charred saddle]

hmm tru tru

[molten oasis]

im hoping zacian isnt bad but from the little bit of testing idt its going anywhere

[rustic mountain]

dont expect gen 8 zacian

[molten oasis]

idt its the best restricted

[rustic mountain]

itll b good tho

[molten oasis]

i think its caly s

[charred saddle]

nerfed

[molten oasis]

or terapagos

[rustic mountain]

no

[charred saddle]

caly ice in tr is annoying

[rustic mountain]

terapagos sucks wtf

[molten oasis]

before you start

[rustic mountain]

how r u putting it as potential #1

[molten oasis]

please, go fight one

go fight one

[cloud gyro]

I can’t find a build for Hydrapple

[charred saddle]

drago

ur time to shine

[molten oasis]

Hydrapple @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Fickle Beam
• Pollen Puff
• Yawn
• Protect

you support the team with yawn pressure

and heal your partners with pollen puff

[rustic mountain]

i wish hydrapple was better

[molten oasis]

and then fickle beam is a decent move that can become a nuke

tree, have you fought a terapagos

[rustic mountain]

where am i fighting terapagos

[molten oasis]

exactly

[cloud gyro]

Wait so only take it to 50 not 100?

[molten oasis]

ive played matches into tofu and a couple friends

its so god damn bulky

you have a spread 120 base power no drawback move

coming off of 130 base special attack

[rustic mountain]

ive been wrong before but i jus dont see it, stellar tera guaranteed seems not great and its offensive capability feels lackluster comparatively to others

[molten oasis]

you have better multiscale at base

so free set up

you have 1 weakness to fighting

which you can cover with running gleam or running something to threaten it

you also get to play tera mindgames on both your side and the opposing side of the field

[rustic mountain]

its more jus a mindgame if they tera ur always stellar

[molten oasis]

...

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 1024: Terapagos-Stellar

Type

Normal

Abilities

Teraform Zero

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

160/105/110/130/110/85

Total

700

Base Species

Terapagos

SableyeBot version 4.26.2

Pokémon No. 1024: Terapagos-Terastal

Type

Normal

Abilities

Tera Shell

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

95/95/110/105/110/85

Total

600

Base Species

Terapagos

SableyeBot version 4.26.2

[rustic mountain]

again ill admit if im wrong if it turns out to be #1 restricted but as of now i do not see it

[molten oasis]

it has potential

im not saying it will

just from what ive played its diffuclt and tricky to take down

[rustic mountain]

fair enough

[molten oasis]

miradion is also up there

[rustic mountain]

im jus goin off the eye test

[molten oasis]

cuz its damage output is stupid

[rustic mountain]

miraidon seems very strong

that could be #1 tbh

has a lot going for it

[molten oasis]

potential too but idk if it will

[rustic mountain]

prolly not

but itll be high useage for restricteds

[molten oasis]

i generally think caly s is the best one

i have not played it or played into it

but it just seems so strong

[rustic mountain]

i think g money (groudon) is a sleeper pick but yea caly s is the most likely

[molten oasis]

groudon isnt up there imo

like, in s

its like solid a along with kyogre

kyogre has to deal with miraidon and wellspring so idt its gonna be s

[rustic mountain]

moreso for what it enables i think elevates it on top of being pretty strong itself

but yea thats why its a sleeper pick

[molten oasis]

that logic works with koraidon as well tbf

[rustic mountain]

i think koraidon has more that threatens it

but yea i get that

[molten oasis]

well, fighting dragon sucks

defensively

[rustic mountain]

yea

its not good defensively at all

[molten oasis]

groudon has that going for it and i think its gonna be the best sun setter

[rustic mountain]

yea i dont see koraidon overtaking groudon for that

but it does have an added bonus to its ability and signature move

[molten oasis]

i thought about it doing that

[rustic mountain]

so its not like it doesnt have other things going for it

[molten oasis]

then i fought a groudon and was convinced lol

[rustic mountain]

its a good mon

[molten oasis]

idt groudon is s tier cuz you still deal with weather wars from kyogre

[rustic mountain]

i think wat mainly hurts groudon is precimiss blades accuracy

[molten oasis]

that

[rustic mountain]

like its main stab is gna miss, and thats gna hurt u

[molten oasis]

see now it "technically" has 2 stabs

[rustic mountain]

well yea

[molten oasis]

it got heat crash

which is awesome for it

I do think i want to do a sun team down the line but for rn im playing zac balance

[rustic mountain]

im gna opt for zac balance off rip too

played it a decent amount in swsh

[molten oasis]

i do not see how double fo+swords dance isnt just good lol

[rustic mountain]

yea

[molten oasis]

and like, you can run shifu for its problem mu's beyond sun

[rustic mountain]

sub always an option too

[molten oasis]

i dont think you want to be eating intimidates from incin for free

as you dont threaten it

[rustic mountain]

yea but if u have shifu its like sure switch it on in, but getting zacian behind sub even at neutral can be really nice in certain spots

not saying its outright better but i used sub zacian in swsh quite a bit, i preferred it over sd

[molten oasis]

its tricky to get that positioning on a physical attacker with incin existing

but yea

could run it with gouging fire

so you can howl while its subbed

https://tenor.com/view/gif-i-got-a-plan-have-an-idea-light-bulb-gif-13396253

i just got an idea

[rustic mountain]

tricky to get sd w/ another slot potentially threatening u and incin cycling out or jus flare blitzing u outright

[molten oasis]

you start +1

[rustic mountain]

neither is a guarantee is my point u gta get the right board position and plan out ur turns

[molten oasis]

thats gonna be all zacian is doing

which is the game i play lol

i feel like rilla zacian leads are also fairly free

we'll see

[rustic mountain]

depends on wat the meta turns out to be yea

[molten oasis]

thats my thoughts, i think zac is just a balance mon or some kind of HO mon

[rustic mountain]

again u have faster fake out but if they lead incin + other threatening mon sure u can fo incin but the other thing can exert pressure or u fake out that mon (which might be able to protect) and incin jus parting shots out

[rustic mountain]

yea i mean what else wat it be?

def can flex b/w those depending on team composition

id imagine ppl will flock to more ho style at the start and itll gravitate to mostly balance by the middle-end cuz thats usually how formats go

[molten oasis]

mindgames

[rustic mountain]

opting into mind games t1 isnt a fairly free lead

[molten oasis]

im just saying

[rustic mountain]

yea i jus mean like divulging into that level of it for the first turn isnt amazing haha u want a bit better options in what ur allowing urself

[molten oasis]

theres not really better options tbf