competitive_discussion

[chrome knot]

my brain was just typing

[next stump]

LOL all good

[chrome knot]

my mss are in march and its gonna be double header bc both judges qual for it at same time

another +30 would be cute i adjusted lillikoal now she does reg F things

[next stump]

doubleheader events are pretty awesome

lillikoal is great because no one is covering for it

[chrome knot]

im hyped as fuck for it but its soo far away

yessss i love it

or even psyspam mode just rocks all the new toy syndrome mons

im nervous for knox bc its same weekend as gc1 and god thats alot of fucking pokemon

[next stump]

yes lmao it will be, all the knox players are troopers

[chrome knot]

planning on doing session 1 on drive up

session 2 after day 1 knox, and i assume im not making day 2 so ill run session 3 while watching streamed games

then take a pokémon break bc ill habe played easily 3billion sets of pokemon across 3 days

[tough idol]

Kind of exciting to think this time in 2 weeks I'll be about halfway through my Swiss Rounds

[chrome knot]

ohh?

[bold geode]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-sleeping-good-night-gif-7187824

[supple ether]

Incin has them dead to rights no? With either KO into torkoal or fakeout+blitz liligant

[gentle creek]

Any ideas for my rain team
Need 2 more pokemon so far I have
Kingdra
Barraskewda
Pelliper
Raichu

[supple ether]

Bootycolo

[gentle creek]

@supple ether Would 2 special attackers not be too much

[chrome knot]

absolutely not LOL

[cyan smelt]

doesn't lilligant usually run CC

CC + earth power from torkoal

[supple ether]

I think ludicolo is split? Qwilfish could also be okay (im not a qualified source)

[supple ether]

Is it just CC pressure? Or is there some secret sauce

[nocturne holly]

how does incin ko torkoal

lillikoal almost always wins that with Tera ghost too

[supple ether]

It doesnt have to, just bring eruption from 150 to 80-100 bp

Hmmm yeah incin doesnt insta win, unfavorable matchup tho

[prisma socket]

so i tried building a competitive team (mostly for fun against my friends tho) but i absolutely suck at it so i was wondering anyone can help me with the pokemon i chose (or if i should change anything) these are the ones i chose
Kommo-O
Mienshao
Gastrodon
Ceruledge
Hatterene
Lilligant

[tough idol]

Liverpool Regional in UK in 2 weeks

[chrome knot]

ooo

[timber falcon]

thanks to a certain muk and smeargle combo ive been struggling so hard man

might add grass knot to torn and taunt to oger to stop dozo and muk

Btw is it worth editing team to completely stop dozo with haze?

[nocturne holly]

Can we see the team

[timber falcon]

https://pokepast.es/5d7dea9c83494381

[solid ravine]

yo that pfp kinda goes hard cigar

[prisma socket]

i feel like Mienshao is the only one thats really out of place here xD any opinions? :O

[timber falcon]

Anyway found out all I need to do is lead with Oger and smeargle to counter

[timber falcon]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2034188203-cnbs4l3jfzlu8lfcoizf7ttc7bghfyxpw

That’s what I did to put a stop to it

[bold geode]

I see you

@solid ravine

[gentle crag]

dollarmonke has given 1 Gen Rep to phantomfrosty

[solid ravine]

SAUSAGE

[gentle crag]

phantomfrosty has given 1 Gen Rep to dollarmonke

[bold geode]

Lol
Good ol sausage

[solid ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/yippee-happy-celebration-joy-confetti-gif-25557730

[nocturne holly]

fr
ghost rider W

[unkempt flax]

So I tried kommo-o over Registeel and deadass, it feels very solid rn. So I’m going to be building around that. I have Kommo-o Glimmora Ogerpon real mask Fluttermane Incineroar and Latias on my team

[bold geode]

Actually the sauce MIGHT be there? Idk

[willow vault]

https://pokepast.es/257f1fe10eefee62, If anyone has any spreads or better tera types for this team can you let me know

[bold geode]

Ngl I keep forgetting the Sacramento regionals even happened and idk how considering that's the regionals where IDBP Kon Mo O and Tyranitar won

[teal portal]

for ivs is best or fantastic better

i jus dont know which one is 31

[unkempt flax]

Nah full sauce train. I want to make this work so bad
Only issue is evs. I made Latias a Little to offence bulky.
But nah Glimmora allows Kommo-o to kill everything I want after a turn or two of poison damage. It’s so much fun

Also I’m doing iron head over flash canon. You need no investment, although I put 4 attack, to kill the majority of all forms of bulky flutter after a turn of poison or two. Of course you need to Tera to steel, but I love it

Assuming you get the lowest roll possible

Which left nearly all of them at 14%

[bold geode]

Nice
I think Michael Zhang did Iron Head as well

[pearl wind]

best

[modest scarab]

guys
If i save the rental on my game it’ll stay until i delete it right? if the creators of the rental deletes it from his console it still stays in my game right?

[bold geode]

I think if they stop sharing then yeah

[modest scarab]

yeah that it stays in my console?

[summer shore]

Oe

[prisma socket]

i dont wanna be annoying xD but if anyone could help me xD (i will stop after this one tho xD)

[hot orbit]

Looking for a coach to teach me team building and guide me trough some battles so he can teach me what im doing wrong and how to improve. Would love to get appointed on a Tuesday since its my free day. Anyone knows a coach?

[lofty tartan]

You can find coaches on Metafy, that have been approved by the site for coaching. Thing is that you can pay any random bloke to teach you things, but ideally for this situation you're going to look to established players with experience and achievements.

I have a coach that I got through Metafy, and it's helped me a lot.

[hot orbit]

Metafy is a site in the internet or an app?, also thanks for guiding me on where to look for. Im still even learning whats weak to what.

[lofty tartan]

It's a website, yeah. I think there may be an app but I don't use it.

My coach has a fundamental program where you pay for 7 lessons and get to really craft the plan on your own, but he kinda gets a feel for where you are in development and tries to take it from there.

But on the surface it's teaching you the core fundamentals of VGC in general.

[willow lily]

Anyone vgc bo3 in ab 1hr?

[lofty tartan]

The lessons were pretty agreeable on price.

Cost me 120 dollars for 7 lessons, so less than 20 bucks a lesson, which are pretty competitive rates

Each lesson is an hour.

For context, Ray Rizzo charges like 90/hr

https://metafy.gg/@azulite

This is my coach. Can't recommend him enough - but there's a lot of coaches on the site too

[hot orbit]

Noted ! Thanks bro !

[lofty tartan]

Sure thing. If you consider it - he has a FREE consultation where he'll meet with you and get to know you and where you are with your skill level.

I definitely suggest the consult.

Great guy and great player, 100%

[tidal blade]

quick question, does anyone know if quick guard blocks fake out?

since they're the same priority bracket

[lofty tartan]

It comes down to a speed tie there.

If the Quick Guard user is faster than the Fake Out user, then Quick Guard stops Fake Out

[tidal blade]

was planning to use it on kingambit

[lofty tartan]

You could always just protect there. That's a good way to stop Fake Out and doesn't come down to speed ties.

[cyan smelt]

i think i need to hit up azulite

[lofty tartan]

It was one of the best things I could've done for myself, trying to get better at this.

[cyan smelt]

playing bo3 i realise i'm pretty garbage

[lofty tartan]

It instilled confidence and showed me I wasn't as much of an novice as I thought.

Man, BO3 is a whole new ballpark.

I have fun on ladder, but playing in-person BO3 was peak

[cyan smelt]

bo3 is tough

[lofty tartan]

Honestly I think it's easier, for me.

You don't get closed out by CTS nonsense game 1

Game 2 you can anticipate and adjust.

[cyan smelt]

at least there's less gimmicks in bo3

[lofty tartan]

Yeah gimmick teams can't prosper in BO3 OTS

[cyan smelt]

i probably need to play bo1 occasionally though

[unkempt flax]

What speed are Entei hitting?

I’m trying to figure out a way to kinda deal with Entei chien-pao leads into my kommo-o Glimmora core

Since that pressures me the most

[next stump]

I've seen a lot outspeeding modest Gholdengo

or even go slightly higher

[unkempt flax]

Crap what’s that speed hitting again?

[modest scarab]

i sent you a dm

[unkempt flax]

Would you know by any chance?

[kindred cypress]

Japanese rental team I found, guess the smeargle’s move-set

[lofty tartan]

Jamie Boyt has a video where he was building with Entei. A lot of people are adopting that spread. Might be something to look at too, for calcs.

150 outspeeds timid Gholdengo

Modest iiiiis

136. So 137 outspeeds max speed modest Gholdengo

@unkempt flax

[unkempt flax]

Thank you

I’ll go 139 on Latias just to creep a little more

[unkempt flax]

I know this isn’t a paste, but what should I add for the last two Pokémon

I like this core, a lot, I just need two final good partners for it

I was using flutter incin, but it didn’t feel right. Maybe I was playing weirdly with it, idk

[kindred cypress]

Maybe try urshi and lando t, pretty old set but you’ll get you intimidate and damage

[supple ether]

Minimize muk costar is the most degenerate shit

But anton's top 8 team is remarkably solid. Wellspring+drago+torn+AV Incin is so strong

Ive been using it to get master rank ribbons on all my other mons -- they just sit in the team preview

[bold geode]

Io

[nimble tinsel]

Hi I’m am a beginner in competitive pokemon

[tired sage]

:0
you settled for latias

[nimble tinsel]

Hey

[gentle crag]

Here is a list of all of the resources I find most helpful when playing/learning VGC:

https://www.vgcguide.com/ (Helpful website for basics and also to get your feet wet)

https://www.pikalytics.com/ (Shows you usage data and helps you build Pokémon)

https://nerd-of-now.github.io/NCP-VGC-Damage-Calculator/ (Damage calculator that is very helpful when building teams or reflecting on games)

https://youtube.com/c/CybertronVGC (Best channel for daily VGC content, guiding you through the thought process you need for success)

https://victoryroadvgc.com/ (Tournament results, team reports and breakdowns, and rental codes can be found here)

https://twitter.com/VGCPastes - Tournament and high ranked teams

https://twitter.com/vgccorner - Helpful Twitter account that posts in-depth EV spreads and ideas about competitive pokemon

There are dozens of other resources, some of which are in the pinned messages of this channel. But these IMO are the best places to start absorbing knowledge and getting to a place where you're comfortable with VGC

mlbd (ID 197813560997314562)

[Embed Link](#competitive_discussion message) to #competitive_discussion

Command triggered by dazedmika. Message from · Dec 17, 2023, 7:30 PM

[lofty tartan]

@nimble tinsel

[nimble tinsel]

Yes

[lofty tartan]

These resources should be helpful for you as a complete beginner to vgc and competitive battling

[nimble tinsel]

Okay

[lofty tartan]

I'd definitely give some of them a look

[nimble tinsel]

Lucky I have some of the vcg pokemon like I incinaroar

[pale burrow]

I followed the information here, started battling last night for the first time ever. Went 6-1 with a sand team in the lower ranks.

So the info is very useful if you use it.

Have a blast and of you want to train against another newbie, hit me up.

[nimble tinsel]

Alright

[pale burrow]

Th people here are super helpful too

[nimble tinsel]

I’m EV training my flogadier so he can out speed people

[pale burrow]

Nice. I grinded loads of pokedollars during my run through, so trading and training was super easy

[tough idol]

I'm gonna be practicing a lot from midweek on cart if anyone will be about. Just need to finalise my 6 lmao 🤣

[nimble tinsel]

I’m gonna need ghoulango

I have 245 coins I think so far

[pale burrow]

Nice keep the grind up

[nimble tinsel]

I need more places

[tough idol]

Fly round the watchtowers. They have static chest spawns. That give 50+ coins normally

There's also a map of static spawns you can get off the Internet for those not in the towers

[nimble tinsel]

Alright thx

[gentle crag]

dillonforever has given 1 Gen Rep to ictlegion

[unkempt flax]

Yep. Took me awhile to let myself do that, but I did it

[tired sage]

then i shall make a sala balance team

[unkempt flax]

Real

[unkempt flax]

I’ll try

[tired sage]

this feels so wrong

[unkempt flax]

I did salamance Registeel Glim and it did good

[cyan smelt]

do the ruin mons abilities affect mons with clear body?

[unkempt flax]

Yes

[cyan smelt]

oof

[tired sage]

it’s because clear body blocks stat drops.
the ruin abilities aren’t really stat drops

they just halve the stat

[vast wasp]

I really want to make an alolan ninetails snow team work. Could anyone looks this over and tell me where I’m going wrong? I feel like metagross might be useless and veritable just feels so weak.

Ninetales-Alola @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
Tera Type: Ghost
IVs: 0 Atk

• Dazzling Gleam
• Aurora Veil
• Icy Wind
• Protect

Cetitan @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Slush Rush
Tera Type: Ground

• High Horsepower
• Heavy Slam
• Ice Spinner
• Protect

Entei @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Normal

• Extreme Speed
• Sacred Fire
• Stomping Tantrum
• Protect

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Dragon
IVs: 0 Atk

• Tailwind
• Scald
• Snarl
• Protect

Metagross @ Metal Coat
Ability: Clear Body
Tera Type: Steel

• Bullet Punch
• Psychic Fangs
• Heavy Slam
• Protect

Rillaboom @ Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
Tera Type: Water

• Grassy Glide
• Knock Off
• Fake Out
• Drain Punch

[tough idol]

Make a Pokepaste please, easier to read and include the EVs

[honest rivet]

anyone have strong thoughts for the 4th move on a lando-I set (assuming protect/earth power/sludge bomb/???). i have a strong aversion to moves that aren't 100% accurate so i'd like to avoid sandsear storm. i see a lot of substitute, has anyone tried calm mind or nasty plot? taunt? would love anyone's thoughts or exp

[vast wasp]

https://pokepast.es/6e8722decd43c4d3 here you go. Sorry I’m a bit new to this

[unkempt flax]

How’s my defense looking with just 4 Pokémon

[next stump]

I could maybe if you had redirection on your team Nasty Plot being okay, but otherwise Lando is not a very bulky pokemon

Taunt is kinda cute into some TR teams that prevent priority, that’s probably your best bet for a status move

[dapper crag]

Landorus's moveset:

Physical Moves

Body Slam, Brick Break, Brutal Swing, Bulldoze, Crunch, Dig, Earthquake, Explosion, Facade, Fissure, Fling, Fly, Frustration, Giga Impact, Hammer Arm, Iron Tail, Knock Off, Outrage, Payback, Punishment, Return, Rock Slide, Rock Smash, Rock Throw, Rock Tomb, Sand Tomb, Secret Power, Self-Destruct, Smack Down, Stomping Tantrum, Stone Edge, Strength, Superpower, Take Down, U-turn

Special Moves

Earth Power, Extrasensory, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, Hidden Power, Hyper Beam, Mud Shot, Mud-Slap, Psychic, Round, Sandsear Storm, Scorching Sands, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Snore, Tera Blast, Weather Ball

Status Moves

Attract, Block, Bulk Up, Calm Mind, Confide, Defog, Double Team, Endure, Gravity, Imprison, Leer, Nasty Plot, Protect, Rain Dance, Rest, Rock Polish, Role Play, Sandstorm, Scary Face, Sleep Talk, Stealth Rock, Substitute, Sunny Day, Swagger, Swords Dance, Taunt, Toxic

Notes

A move displayed with Bold text benefits from Same-Type Attack Bonus when used by Landorus.

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[next stump]

substitute is usually run because with fake out pressure you can usually get a free sub up, or into trick room teams you can also get a free sub

[honest rivet]

ty! i've got substitute rn, just always wondering about unique movesets. appreciate the input

[wispy spade]

Does AM mean anything pokemon related?

[tough idol]

Context?

[wispy spade]

It's from a different game entirely, but i want it to be pokemon instead

Assassin, metamorph

[tired sage]

the best i can think of atm is anti-meta

[unkempt flax]

Does Glimmora Incin Amoonguss and ogerpon Well spring sound like a good core?

[wispy spade]

Why does it say all of these can learn tailwind?

Or am i searching wrong?

Reg F vgc is selected

[dry crypt]

I’m not really too into competitive but I’m just wondering if the new mythical is even remotely useable in a competitive setting

[tough idol]

Not sure, but it'll most likely be banned for VGC

[dry crypt]

Yeah probably I just think the ability is a cool idea

[chrome knot]

2nd at my pc today, +16

[tough idol]

I don't think the filter has worked

[wispy spade]

Aww

[tough idol]

Searching Alolan overwrites the filter, just tried it myself

I don't think any Alolan learn TW

[near crag]

does anyone have a gholdengo spread? It's shadow ball, make it rain, nasty plot, protect, leftovers.

[whole ibex]

I’m juggling between Incin,RocK9 and Entei for the fire slot for my team. https://pokepast.es/804b16e6bd70eb56

I might just try Heatran even tho I’m not doing super sweet syrup strats.

[tough idol]

H Arc is taking your fire slot atm imo

[whole ibex]

Oh I forgot I had RocK9 here. I meant to take it out.

[near crag]

Cool team, just don't really get primarina's role right there, since urhifu water, ogerpon W, or wake are better options for water damage

[whole ibex]

I’m doing Trick room

[near crag]

my bad

[whole ibex]

And Hydrapple has defensive synergy prim

[tough idol]

Could use a redirect to ensure TR maybe?

[whole ibex]

I like follow me but with Ogrepon, I start doubling up on weaknesses with Apple and Prim

[tough idol]

Indeedee?

[near crag]

it wouldn't reach it's full strengh not having crown next to it, and a bit more offense on tr could be beneficial

[tough idol]

Just looking at redirect options

[near crag]

it's not excludent

Sinistcha could fit well, imo. I played with it in the past, it's really solid.

[tired sage]

absolutely untrue-

indeedee has prio deny, can tank things well, and has redirect

plus who doesn’t like a tera boosted dazzling gleam

indeedee can run rocky helmet to counter water shifu or psychic seed to take more hits from special attacks like dengo’s make it rain

[near crag]

ok, you're right

[tired sage]

psyspam can go out the window (no it can’t- psyspam is too good but that’s besides the point) when it comes to running indeedee

[gentle delta]

funny I just had this argument in DMs with someone

I was also defending Indeedee's use without being a Psyspam team

I did that in Regs C and D both

[nocturne holly]

rare prog appearance 👀

How you doing

[tired sage]

Prog!!!

so many people just see indeedee as a psyspam fellow

[gentle delta]

kinda floating on cloud nine watching the video pop off and people dming me to pay for coaching im like wtf is happening

[molten cedar]

Honestly my Indeedee has been popping off with Greedent in TR

[nocturne holly]

lmao goodluck

[gentle delta]

excuse me what

[gentle delta]

allow me to dig through the deepest bowels of my replays for my earliest Reg C team

[ember linden]

🗿

Greedent😭😭

[tired sage]

i mean….

cheek pouch, swords dance body slam…

[molten cedar]

I run Belly Drum, Body Slam, Knock Off, Protect on Greedent, so it’s a 4x attack 20 base speed mon in trick room

[tired sage]

BELLY DRUM WHAT-

[molten cedar]

Many people lose just because of the surprise factor of seeing a god damn Greedent

[gentle delta]

found the reg c team

https://pokepast.es/6d6d78e0310e9549

[molten cedar]

Can’t see it coming from a mile away

Haze is almost a non issue

[tired sage]

with close combats everywhere i don’t think you’re living anything

[molten cedar]

Yeah, that is true, that’s why Indeedee is such a good partner

[gentle delta]

Greedent doesn't have appropriate bulk for Belly Drum imo

[tired sage]

what-?

[gentle delta]

could be cute on cts ladder but it doesn't have real competitive value

[tired sage]

once you start playing ots

[molten cedar]

Of course there’s psyspam is the back though

The team majorly sucks but I just love it

[tired sage]

you can’t hide anything…
i through that tera explosion could work and it didn’t

well…
no it did to some degree but you rarely have the opportunity to use it

[gentle delta]

Its like Gambit ape you force them to respect it

[tired sage]

since your opponents are now prepared that there’s an explosion on the way

[molten cedar]

Yeah, surprise factor is 95% of what makes this team work to some degree

Honestly if I had to actually rematch someone with this team there’s no way in hell I’m bringing in Greedent

[tired sage]

yeah…

that’s the problem with ots…
and in Bo3 it gets worse

cause now essentially you’re carrying a deadweight pokemon

[molten cedar]

It only works in in game ladder

Forget about regionals

[tired sage]

that’s fair

[ionic shell]

It’s gonna be my first tournament in 4 hours, any tips whahaha

Im using a whim/ww sun team, any comps I should be worried of?

[molten cedar]

Greedent Indeedee for sure

[ionic shell]

Yeah I kinda had trouble with indeedee a lot

Specially with armarouge

[molten cedar]

Yeah in all honesty Psyspam is everywhere and it’s a must know how your team can deal with it

Not the Greedent part. Don’t take that seriously. I bet 100 bucks nobody in the tournament you are going to participate in is bringing Greedent.

[ionic shell]

Yeah hopefully

Here’s my team if it helps

I asked someone here that was using ww whim too

He said just spam snarl against tr

Kinda copied some of his mons

But diff stat

[molten cedar]

That is actually very accurate against psyspam, it’s super effective, lowers sp atk and hits both opponents, solid advice

[ionic shell]

Against tr do I still bring whim?

But as a 3rd/4th pick

Just for sunny day

[whole ibex]

In my team?

[karmic temple]

Depends but u def bring pao for spinner

[molten cedar]

I don’t know actually know much about gen 9 whimsicott since I’m still sticking with tornadus though. You probably could but I’m not too sure about that

[ionic shell]

Yeah my lead is gonna be incin +pao 100% of the time against tr

[ionic shell]

I was a torn user too but I missed sun team

[molten cedar]

Torn has sunny day

You just won’t be able to run storm

[ionic shell]

Yeah but I used him for shifu

Kinda braindead ☠️

But fun

[molten cedar]

100% true

[ionic shell]

Against rain teams

Do I just wait for him to rainy day

Cause sometimes I overthink it and choke

On ranked

[stone tide]

is this team any good? https://pokepast.es/8e85c70dcd60f64e i dont really know anything about the current metagame but i do have a little knowledge and this was my first team in this format

[molten cedar]

Whimsicott naturally outspeeds, so in most cases do not use it if you think they’ll rain dance

[ionic shell]

Oh yeah another problem are those annoying toxic stall teams

Do I just press all my attack moves against that ☠️

[gentle delta]

Most psypam teams have one or both of Gallade and Kingambit these days, Snarl will only go so far.

[nocturne holly]

Doesn’t gallade run sharpness tho?

[gentle delta]

Snarl doesn't bother Gallade because he's a physical attacker

and he has high spdef

[nocturne holly]

oh I thought you meant using justified mb

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 475: Gallade

Types

Psychic/Fighting

Abilities

Steadfast, Sharpness, Justified (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

68/125/65/65/115/80

Total

518

Other Formes

Gallade-Mega

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[nocturne holly]

w sp def

[gentle delta]

nah more just that snarl doesnt answer it

but yeah I adore switching kingambit into snarl

[whole ibex]

I been enjoying your content

[molten oasis]

We love kingambit

[whole ibex]

I lowkey miss having Kinggambit in my team

But with Chein Pao, it feels redundant to have.

[gentle delta]

tysm!

[gentle crag]

progatog has given 1 Gen Rep to soggywaffles6251

[gentle delta]

Off the record

Despite the name of the video

Kingambit kinda carries most games

[ember linden]

I wanna use gambit over raging bolt on my PaoTei team

I like never bring it but it’s nice when it is brought

Also don’t really like two quad fighting weaknesses

[brazen bough]

i saw that in a japanese tourney yesterday

it was a libertynote stream i think

actually i dont think it was japanese only

it was like a meet of some sorts between different countries

[neon prawn]

anyone know good pokemon for sun sweep team?

other than venusaur and torkoal

[bold geode]

Flutter Mane
Walking Wake

[neon prawn]

k

thanks

[bold geode]

Yup

[smoky hawk]

Feeling pretty good about my dozogiri team now
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2034566864

[bold geode]

Love it
Tomorrow
20 degree weather

[molten oasis]

Lol, kingambit is that guy

[gentle delta]

Walking Mid

[bold geode]

It has its own rights

[gentle delta]

I'

I'm convinced it doesnt tbh

[bold geode]

I mean it's not horrible
It could be fucking Leaves

[brazen bough]

agree

[molten oasis]

I think wake is good however

Gouging and bolt are better, imo

[brazen bough]

literally no one is using it in tourneys to insane success besides pengy

[gentle delta]

Leaves has more merit than Wake

fight me

[brazen bough]

you lost me

[bold geode]

I will
No tf it does not

[brazen bough]

actually

leaves i think is a sleeper probably

[bold geode]

I actually wanna hear what you gotta say tbh

[molten oasis]

…, I’d just like to see why before saying anything

[brazen bough]

i havent seen anyone use it but it can probably dish out insane amounts of damage

[gentle delta]

Wake does literally nothing, Leaves has surprisingly excellent offensive coverage and stats

[brazen bough]

ive been using registeel recently

[kindred cypress]

Incineroar

[brazen bough]

and registeel does a shit ton of damage

[molten oasis]

[brazen bough]

???

[kindred cypress]

Think

[bold geode]

It blows shit up with Hydro Steam and works with Sun HO, what you mean

[molten oasis]

That’s kinda, it tho

[gentle delta]

It doesn't even do that very well though

[molten oasis]

Like what else does it do besides sun Mon

[brazen bough]

i think you are only looking at typings

[gentle delta]

People popped off for it, just for to mostly be a dead slot that gets forced.

[molten oasis]

And flutter does that better

[brazen bough]

iron boulder and iron leaves i think have potential to be good

[molten oasis]

Boulder has a ignore protect move it’s at least decent

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 1010: Iron Leaves

Types

Grass/Psychic

Abilities

Quark Drive

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

90/130/88/70/108/104

Total

590

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[next stump]

damn not one wake in day 2

[molten oasis]

I wish it was faster but that’ll hit@plenty hard

LMAO

[bold geode]

Ah yes I love to use something that'll get blown up by more than half the meta

[molten oasis]

That is unfort

[bold geode]

Or actually probably 3/4 of it at least

[molten oasis]

Booster speed

[brazen bough]

I think pengy's team is like the best shot it has imo

[molten oasis]

Jk idk how you’d use it

[brazen bough]

that team if you like really learn your matchups i dont think many are really prepping for likely

pengy is like the only guy ive seen using ti

torkoal + jumpluff is what im talking about

[next stump]

didn't pengy kinda shit the bed in portland

or did he not go there

[bold geode]

Point is, they asked for Sun sweepers
That's Wake lmao

[brazen bough]

he attended?

i dont think he went

unless all stats arent up

but hes been doing really good in alot of stacked limitless tours

[next stump]

https://twitter.com/PengyTwitch/status/1743838878291866109

assumign this is the same pengy

5-4 at portland

[brazen bough]

damn...

[gentle delta]

Wake it is not because Wake is not a particularly good mon

[brazen bough]

wait i thought he switched teams if im not mistaken after the tourney

[next stump]

no idea, i dont realy follow him

[bold geode]

Make a legitimate Leaves team that is viable, then I'll consider it

[brazen bough]

that probably isnt too hard

viable ≠ meta

[bold geode]

Yeah but I just don't see it happening

[brazen bough]

😂

it has no super effective into most of the meta picks

[bold geode]

I mean feel free to prove me wrong

[molten oasis]

I think wake is a good Mon, in sun

[brazen bough]

you see

[molten oasis]

That’s it

[brazen bough]

im not doing it but eventually someone will

[molten oasis]

Unfortunately cuz I like wake

[brazen bough]

ive actually seen some rain teams

with wake

[molten oasis]

Yea but at that point run shifu tbh

[bold geode]

Also
Cybertron made Wake shit
He features good shit
Where Leaves video

[brazen bough]

i mean whats wrong with running both

[bold geode]

Ones shit and ones less shit

I mean if you wanna play with shit go ahead
But imma say what imo is better and this is probably also a general consensus
Wake better

Although I hate recommending straight Sun HO

Wake better

[nocturne holly]

what’s popping

haven’t played vgc in a week
should probably get back on it

[little plank]

Anyone have advice for making this team better? Currently 15-3 on ladder with it. Just trying to make it the best it can be.

https://pokepast.es/5e42424ea8daaf5a

So far the biggest threat I've faced is choice specs fluttermane, especially if it's partner has follow me.

Thinking my best option is to tailwind and go for snarls?

[gentle delta]

There's neato Armarouge team I keep seeing on ladder. I think it's from some Youtube video.

I finally faced the mirror

[nocturne holly]

I’ll check it out
Currently cooking with latias rn

[gentle delta]

Im mostly joking and plugging my shit

But Latis is quite good rn too

[bold geode]

Now Latias is good

Nice TW setter, good bulk AND Recover?
Latinas for the win

[nocturne holly]

Fr it has insane flexibility

Heal pulse is really good with gambit which I’m running it with

[ember linden]

I don’t think Latias is that good

It’s underwhelming asf

Maybe Latios might be alright but Latias does not feel good

I think suicune does its job better

[gentle delta]

I'd say Latias is more comparable to Cress than Suicune

[ember linden]

I agree but my point was who does what role better

Ofc in purely the set up tailwind role torn or whim is the best but bulky tailwind setter goes to Suicune

[gentle delta]

note quite that simple

bulky speed control w/ healing

not necessarily tailwind or not tailwind

Mist Ball = Moon Blast
Tailwind = trick room

both tend to have helmet, and both have a healing move and a utility slot thats often ice beam

[ember linden]

What are you saying?

Cause I was just saying I think Suicune is better than Latias at bulky speed control

Idk where Cress came from so I’m confused sorry

[molten oasis]

And I don’t see Latias at all lol

I don’t really agree with Suicune here, most cuz Suicune tends to take the water spot, which shifu usually wants

And it just sits there

Mist ball does decent damage and the spA drop is pretty nice

I like Suicune, just don’t think it’s better than Latias

[gentle delta]

Latias and Suicune do not do the same job

[ember linden]

The damage felt very lack luster, suicune isn’t better damage wise but I like the water typing for a bulky tw + speed control mon

[gentle delta]

Latias is more comparable to Cress than Suicune thats what I'm saying

[ember linden]

Ah

[gentle delta]

Latias and Suicune don't fill the same spot on a team they have different needs.

Only thing they have in common is Tailwind.

[molten oasis]

hmm well, ig watershifu is kinda dying with waterpon rising in usage and the amount of watershifu answers rn

[ember linden]

I take back what I said ig. I just don’t like Latias

[molten oasis]

Latias is kinda middling I won’t disagree there. But for the role it fills it does pretty well

[ember linden]

I like’d icy wind over ice beam in the little time I used Latias

[molten oasis]

Idk I still try to get hydrspple to work so, I don’t have much of a place to say things on meta LOL

[stone tide]

https://pokepast.es/8e85c70dcd60f64e is this team good? i'm really new to the current format but i have small ideas of the meta i think

[minor panther]

im making a new team for sv (bug mono) any ideas for a replacement of lokix and volcarona?
the team is kleavor, scizor, galvantula, volcarona, lokix, and araquanid

[ember linden]

Zoroark isn’t the best on non illusion based strats. You want AV and poison tera on Hydrapple. Horn leech over u-turn on ogerpon. Clear amulet on hands + wild charge for thunder punch, protect over ice punch would be a good set. Go tera fire on Hands as well. Scarf Lando is the way to go. Ogerpon spread needs fixing(I recommend 252/4/12/0/52/196+).

Idk about Hydrapple spreads

Flutter Mane over Zoro is a good option

Chances are some mons are better than others on your team, I’m not sure what for what tho

[stone tide]

yeah i figured, i always felt like hydrapple was outclassed by something in terms of setup i just dont know what

and as fun as using stellar tera zoroark is, stellar tera probably isn't the best choice on it, right?

[ember linden]

Fairy is what I’d go or some offensive tera like ghost or normal

But if you want to spam tera normal hyper voice Ursaluna Blood Moon is better

[stone tide]

i also have had some sucess with illusion, i really like impersonating iron hands into someting that'd want to will-o-wisp me or weaken me in some way and then surprising them

[molten oasis]

From experience now

Set up Hydrapple is decent but it’s really hard to get it up consistently

[stone tide]

mhm, it def needs some sorta support like iron hands fake out or wellspring follow me

[brazen bough]

its probably just an early reg mon

i mean i could see it kinda having a reign like salamence started to have

[stone tide]

also, why would i want scarf over assault vest on lando-t? not to sound mean, i'm just curious

[molten oasis]

Scarf is a lot better on it as it wants to outspeed things like fluttermane and urshifu

[ember linden]

Really fast big damage, and Hydrapple wants AV more

[molten oasis]

Hydra also does like av

[stone tide]

yeah maybe i should abandon the whole setup thing, it's really difficult to get running

most of the matches i've played with it i hardly ever bring it

[molten oasis]

It doesn’t have a good typing for it unfortunately

To set up

[stone tide]

yeah i've never been good at telling when a typing is good or not lol

is there some way i could tell easily?

[molten oasis]

How many weaknesses, how many of its moves hit others for super effective

[dapper crag]

Hydrapple [Grass/Dragon]

Resists (0.25x)

Electric, Grass, Water

Resists (0.5x)

Ground

Neutral damage

Dark, Fighting, Fire, Ghost, Normal, Psychic, Rock, Steel, Stellar

Weak (2x)

Bug, Dragon, Fairy, Flying, Poison

Weak (4x)

Ice

Type Notes

Grass-types are immune to Powder-based Moves.

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

Hydrapple [Grass/Dragon]

Hits for 0.5x

Steel

Hits for 1x

Bug, Dark, Electric, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Flying, Ghost, Grass, Ice, Normal, Poison, Psychic, Stellar

Hits for 2x

Dragon, Ground, Rock, Water

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[molten oasis]

Decent offensively with its Stab

Not good defensively as it has 7 weaknesses

[bold geode]

@sly lynx just a warning, plz don't talk in #rental_teams
Comp helpers like to keep that chat clean for rental teams

[sly lynx]

My bad

[bold geode]

It's all good
Won't be the last lol

[stone tide]

if i was to replace zoroark with flutter mane and run an icy wind set, would bundle still be good on the team?

i'd also be changing hydrapple's ability to regenrator to suit the assault vest set better, so i'd lose that synergy

[ember linden]

Keep supersweet syrup

Bundle is your icy wind user don’t really need it on flutter tbh

[light yarrow]

Hey everyone, I recently mad a server specifically dedicated to battling, DM me if you're interested, or have ideas to make the server better. I wanted a space for everyone looking for battles.

[stone tide]

as good as the synergy is between hydrapple and bundle, do you think i should do something more to justify running syrup instead of regenerator? i guess i won't really be aggressively switching in hydrapple on a team without trick room but still

[ember linden]

I mean you can if you want

[molten oasis]

What is the team?

[stone tide]

https://pokepast.es/861e8d402320bd66 this is how i've changed it so far from the one i showed you earlier

oh lemme replace thunder punch with wild charge oops

[molten oasis]

You run regenerator on Hydrapple here

Hydro pump on bundle is still gonna miss, it’s iron bundle, very inconsistent Mon in general

And since syrupsweet only activates once I don’t see a reason to keep it over regenerator if you’re running av

[ember linden]

Do probably go clear amulet hands with fire/grass tera and protect over ice punch

[molten oasis]

Agreed

[stone tide]

wait why protect over ice punch?

oh wait

if we're exchaning sitrus for clear amulet then ig it makes sense

[molten oasis]

Sitrus is fine but without av I prefer amulet on hands, also, kinda feeling bolt here idk why

Hands is good here

Not saying you replace hands

[ember linden]

Don’t want two dragon types unless the other isn’t weak to dragon

[molten oasis]

I just like Bolt as electric coverage more atm

[molten oasis]

Was that of his standards or yours?

[stone tide]

no no i agree

[ember linden]

Mine

[molten oasis]

Double dragon is overall fine imo as long as you’re smart with your team, and also you have a steel or fairy for resist

[molten oasis]

Fair

Just wanted to know

[ember linden]

If it isn’t straight HO try not to overlap

[molten oasis]

2 is fine for any type

[ember linden]

Dragon especially right now is not a good type to overlap

[molten oasis]

I think overlapping fairy is ass rn because of fluttermane and look how much that pops up

[stone tide]

yeah, hydrapple already really wants tera defensively so adding another pokemon with some of the same weaknesses would be pretty bad i think

[molten oasis]

2 is fine, 3 is ehh for a balance archetype especially if you don’t have answers for that type

[molten oasis]

I mean it’s fine I’ve run bolt and Hydra on the same team

I just don’t bring both

[stone tide]

fair

[molten oasis]

You have 6 but you only bring 4. You can make a core good with defensive synergy and then 5 & 6 can be ti help those weaknesses

For a balance archetype

[stone tide]

actually, now that i think abt it, are there any alternatives to iron bundle? or just different forms of speed control in general that'd work well here

[molten oasis]

Hmm

Could change ti booster speed flutter with icy wind

Or add Tornadus

Or maybe Suicune, actually Suicune wouldn’t be half bad here

[stone tide]

i'm not too familiar with suicune or tornaus, could you give me a brief rundown on how they work pls?

[molten oasis]

Tornadus has prankster, which gives priority to status moves. So you get prio tailwind, taunt, rain dance for example

That is its whole thing and it does it very well

[stone tide]

ooh ok

[molten oasis]

Suicune has inner focus

[stone tide]

does it do anything offensively? tornadus i mean

[molten oasis]

I’ll go back to Suicune lol

[stone tide]

k

[molten oasis]

Torn has a move called bleakwind storm

[dapper crag]

Move: Bleakwind Storm

Has a 30% chance to lower the target's Speed by 1 stage. If the weather is Primordial Sea or Rain Dance, this move does not check accuracy. If this move is used against a Pokemon holding Utility Umbrella, this move's accuracy remains at 80%.

Type

Flying

Category

Special

Power

100

Accuracy

80

PP (max)

10 (16)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Does not make contact.

Wind

Triggers Wind Power and Wind Rider.

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[molten oasis]

It’s not super consistent

But it’s it’s best option. Spread flying damage is good, really good into the current format too

[stone tide]

if i was to run that, i'd just be right back with my problem with bundle

[molten oasis]

And it hits fairly hard

Alright then back to Suicune

Suicune has inner focus which prevents flinches

[stone tide]

and intimidate

[molten oasis]

Then from there it had a wide array of supportive options it can use

[molten oasis]

Yea but Suicune is a special attacker, it don’t care about it lol

[stone tide]

oh yea lol

oops

[molten oasis]

The set I like right now is scald, which has a chance to burn, which is really good

Tailwind, then icy wind and snarl

[stone tide]

oooh that souns interesting

[molten oasis]

THE MAIN SPEED CONTROL HERE is tailwind

Icy wind is used for tw mirrors

[stone tide]

why is my d key so inconsistent raaaah it never wants to work 😠

[molten oasis]

Lol

All good it happens

Suicune also would finish a FWG core, which you don’t have

hmm

[stone tide]

oh yea i've been wondering abt those, what makes those so strong again?

[molten oasis]

Really good defensive synergy

Why is hands here I’m curious?

[stone tide]

it was initially added as a bulky damage-dealer who could help hydrapple setup with nasty plot and fake out, also giving good coverage

not sure how well that role works now that we're going with this av set on hydrapple

[molten oasis]

Oh, shit id say add incin but you have lando

https://pokepast.es/861e8d402320bd66

Just moving this

[stone tide]

alr

[molten oasis]

So I can look at what we can place

Hm

[stone tide]

what exactly are we looking for here?

[molten oasis]

Adding in a fire type somewhere

[stone tide]

alr

[molten oasis]

Hmm, so one thing we could do

Replace lando for scarf single urshifu

And then add incin over hands

Or we can add chi yu over bundle and make flutter booster icy wind

Or maybe adding magmar over waterpon (follow me support, although I think pon is fine here)

[stone tide]

i kinda like the incin one better, because with suicune here instead of bundle we can cover both special and physical attackers

[molten oasis]

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 244 HP / 92 Def / 172 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Scald
• Tailwind
• Snarl
• Helping Hand

[stone tide]

but what would urshifu do? is it just a glass cannon type thingy?

[molten oasis]

This is a set I like for Suicune. Icy wind for hh if you want

[molten oasis]

Urshifu is a fast nuke lol

[stone tide]

alr

[versed ibex]

Is there anyone that can see if my team is ok?

[molten oasis]

yes

[stone tide]

tysm for ur help

[molten oasis]

Np man

[versed ibex]

I'm not into huge competitive pokemon so it's not a comp Mon team but it's the closest thing I want and I just wanna see if it's any good

[molten oasis]

All good

[brazen bough]

orthworm is kinda good wow

[versed ibex]

Let me just get it ready

[brazen bough]

im surprised

[versed ibex]

But can I actually fight someone with it?

[molten oasis]

what’s the team?

[versed ibex]

And maybe a some tips on how to make it better

I'ma just boot up the game rq

[molten oasis]

Do you know what pokepaste is?

[versed ibex]

Nope

[molten oasis]

do you know what showdown is?

[versed ibex]

That website right?

[molten oasis]

Yep

Once you’re in game I’d like you to build the team there, and then there’s a button on the bottom of the teambuilding page (you also build here) that says “upload team to pokepaste”

Do that and send it here

[versed ibex]

K

[elder root]

Any way I could get in on this team critique? Lol

[molten oasis]

no

Jk yes, what’s the team

[elder root]

https://pokepast.es/ce9075aa8b4a0f9f

[molten oasis]

Is there anything you don’t like about it?

[elder root]

I just got slaughtered by an articuno and idk if it was poor management or too much intimidate

[molten oasis]

articuno isn’t very good, prob just missplayed, or.

[elder root]

Also trick room sucks and bolt is awkward to use

[molten oasis]

How many times did you miss on articuno?

[elder root]

Oh no g articuno

[molten oasis]

OH

[elder root]

He got a lot of competiitive

[molten oasis]

Yea just missplayed then

It’s alright it happens

What have you tried into tr?

[elder root]

I usually try to use primarina and bolt.

But primarina isn't slow enough to compete. And bolt is dead against psychic terrain

[molten oasis]

Is this psyspam tr or like, Fari/cress tr?

Oh sent too late lol

[elder root]

I've gone against both with little success

[molten oasis]

So here’s what you do with primarina

set it up

You’re not outspeeding anything under tr, so set up primarina ti take hits better

[versed ibex]

Wait how do stats work?

It says IVs and EVs

How do I just choose the stats

[molten oasis]

Ivs are predetermined stats for the Pokémon, raging from 0-31 (worst to best)

[elder root]

Nut man you might need a beginner video to just give a good overview.

[molten oasis]

You can’t change these without bottle caps or through breeding

EVs are points you gain through battling or items (proteins). Evs increase a mons specific stat by 1 point, and each point goes up by 8 except for the first one, which is 4. So, 4 points on the first stat increase, then 8 for the rest

Does that make sense?

If not I’d watch a video

[versed ibex]

K

[stone tide]

what tera type do i run on incin again

[molten oasis]

Grass or water, poison is also okay

[stone tide]

k ty

i don't assume i'll be tera-ing it often but still nice to have ig

[gentle delta]

Anyone have an all purpose Porygon2 ev spread for a homegirl? I haven't actually calc'd one for this gen.

[versed ibex]

I'm on pokepast, now what?

Also ignore the stats for now I just wanna see if everything else is good

[molten oasis]

Copy link and send here

[molten oasis]

Nope sorry

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 233: Porygon2

Type

Normal

Abilities

Trace, Download, Analytic (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

85/80/90/105/95/60

Total

515

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[versed ibex]

https://pokepast.es/21d13f810c12479b

[molten oasis]

You could do the amoonguss 252/156/100 bold ig lol

[versed ibex]

I think this is it

[molten oasis]

This is just to fight friends?

If that’s the case it’s probably fine, I’d do only physical moves on groudon tho

[gentle delta]

Can this chat handle the heat of my latest cooking?

https://pokepast.es/58bd1f199ea549ae

[versed ibex]

Just to have, friends, maybe online

[molten oasis]

Nah it’s too heat

[versed ibex]

K

[molten oasis]

It’s fine then. Just make sure you use the attack stats of mons that are higher. So if it’s higher physical attack use physical moves

[gentle delta]

Its for Global Challenge I I think

but if its consistent enough in Bo1 testing I'll try it out seriously in Bo3

[versed ibex]

Ty

[gentle crag]

ramcracker has given 1 Gen Rep to drayagedrago

[rustic mountain]

jus go to pikalytics and see wat the common used spreads are. then once u get games in, adjust accordingly to common things u run into u think u need more bulk for

[molten oasis]

Hopefully it is. I think that do fairly well in global

[strange fjord]

pikalytics is good for getting a general idea of what to look out for/build

good place to get started

[gentle delta]

Lol I know what Pikalytics is, I prefer to get my spreads from people who can back em up with an explanation

[molten oasis]

which I have to prep something for huh. I’m not playing this weekend as I am on break as I lost it trying to get Hydra to work, which I WILL DO

[rustic mountain]

so not doing any of the leg work urself for said explanation, gotcha

[rustic mountain]

agreed

[gentle delta]

I contribute in here in great amounts pretty regularly

[molten oasis]

it’ll be the first rental i post most likely, and what I bring ti global, cuz I like it’s kit I think it’s neat I just can’t build for the life of me

[gentle delta]

asking if anyone can help me out in turn isnt unreasonable

[molten oasis]

What does that p2 spread live atm?

[gentle delta]

I just kept the defences 50/50 and will adjust from there

[molten oasis]

Mk

Also what’s the reasoning for gapdos?

I think it’s interesting just not sure what it’s for

[strange fjord]

although personally i prefer munchstats 😉

[rustic mountain]

p2 is mid this gen doubt ur gna get that info but gl

[gentle delta]

I'm of the opinion that not having a Defiant or Competitive mon on a hard TR team is a wasted opportunity rn. But I wanted to be able to use Ursaluna so for this team I couldn't really fit Gambit.

[molten oasis]

P2 isn’t mid but okay

[rustic mountain]

havent heard of it, will have to give it a look

p2 isnt mid generally but atm it isnt very good

[gentle delta]

Gapdos covers role compression of my Kingambit and Scarf Shifu

[molten oasis]

That’s fair, I think gapdos is in a pretty solid spot right now

Defiant is very nice

Flying coverage too

[gentle delta]

It's the best TR setter in the format just doesn't currently have a home. But in a vacuum it's the best at the job and pushed further with tera.

[strange fjord]

same data as pikalytics's showdown usage, just has a import set thing that useful for getting quick EVs spreads

[rustic mountain]

it benefitted a lot from shrugging off dmax hits and being able to recover back. atm other then being a bulky tr setter it doesnt do enough and often times is a dead slot that has to have the other compensate heavily

[versed ibex]

Can someone please help me try out my team

[strange fjord]

otherwise interchangeable data wise

[dull ibex]

P2 will takeover eventually

[molten oasis]

Do I try to argue that, I’m of the opinion Fari is the best setter but that hasn’t really been showing so, I’m prob wrong lol

Like SOLO setter

[strange fjord]

time to make a P2 team to get ahead of the curve lol

[dull ibex]

You can prefer it for sure

[molten oasis]

Psyspam I feel is a bit different when it comes to setters

[dull ibex]

Best? Nah.

I prefer dusclops but in a vacuum there is better

[molten oasis]

I don’t have much of a place to say what’s good on tr stuff I don’t play tr but that’s just my thoughts on it.

Psyspam is mind games which is kinda neat

[rustic mountain]

yea i jus think being the best setter only isnt enough atm w/ how the meta is

[gentle delta]

Im tryna decide the top 5 order for an upcoming vid and I thiiiiink I put Farig in 2nd

[molten oasis]

Anti prio is really nice

[gentle delta]

agree to disagree

[dull ibex]

Farig is really good on non tr teams for reset

[rustic mountain]

im sure the meta will become less offensive it always does, i jus dont know if p2 finds a place even w/ that

[molten oasis]

Fari is also a really good setter, but it kinda just sits there

[gentle delta]

I like offensive farig

[molten oasis]

unless you do np which is a neat tech

[gentle delta]

I had a throat spray set that was close to being brought to pittsburgh

[molten oasis]

Or throat spray

[dull ibex]

I think farig is super versatile

[molten oasis]

Yes

I agree there Fari is one of my favs rn

[dull ibex]

I want to expirement with life orb eventually

[gentle delta]

I think for vid its like

Indeedee 1st
Farig 2nd
Armarouge 3rd
Hat 4th
Porygon 5th

and thats only because Porygon hasnt found a solid home yet

[molten oasis]

I just don’t have a lot of use cases for it rn

[gentle delta]

but now that I'm settled on my main team for the format Im gonna be experimenting with it

[molten oasis]

Do you think armarouge is better than Hatt? Never asked I’m kinda curious on that opinion

[strange fjord]

should i use TR Bronzor lol

[dull ibex]

What's wrong with clops, prog?

[gentle delta]

I'm well known for being a Hat hater

[rustic mountain]

i think giraffe is ok, only thing is how its played can be predictable to a really good player. evidence being the lack of day 2s for it in portland with a complete dominance of a handful of priority based teams, with 1 winning the whole thing

[molten oasis]

Like all around not just as a setter

You hate hat? Did not know that

[gentle delta]

It's straight up inferior to Armarouge people are just rose-colored glasses about it from Gen 8

I love her as a pokemon but I dont think shes actualy worth using

[dull ibex]

It was dumb in gen 8

[molten oasis]

Why do you feel that arma is still better? Is it cuz of meteor beam? Or the typing?

I hope that doesn’t come off poorly, just want to know for my own understanding

[rustic mountain]

built in spore immunity is already a nice benefit vs armarouge

dont need to tera

and fairy stab

i dont think 1 is neccessarily better but def a case for it

[molten oasis]

Hmm, ig fire psychic is prob better than fairy psychic maybe? Idk

[rustic mountain]

i wouldnt say better, they are jus different

[gentle delta]

worse defensive typing, no hard hitting single target moves, worse bulk, completely blanked by wide guard, being the slowest thing possible isnt always a benefit even in hard trick room

I think hat won't have a long term in the format and people are just using it because it was good in Gen 8. It's success is more a testament to the power of Expanding Force in general.

Also Armarouge being one of the privledged few of being able to use a better item than Life Orb for it's damage boost is very nice.

[molten oasis]

Interesting

[rustic mountain]

i mean wide guard isnt too prevelant at the moment i think its more then jus rose tinted glasses for it, top 8 at portland nd yea its a new format but id be shocked if armarouge hadnt been in that spot previously and hatterene is ultimately where they landed for the tour
psyspam in general isnt an archetype that has had lasting power or been meta defining. jus one of those teams that pops up every now and then that someone plays out of their mind with

[gentle delta]

Psyspam has absolutely established itself as defining meta team as of Reg E and beyond

most prominent players ranked it low As and as something you need to be aware of

I can see why you'd think Hat has staying power but I just absolutely don't. And that's completely fine you don't to agree.

[rustic mountain]

aware of sure, it being something that has consistently done well and been a top archetype? nah. 1 top cut at best every few tours isnt consistent or meta defining

i dont think hat has staying power based on psyspams strength. it got a cppl new tools sure but i jus am not a believer in it being strong enough to win anything major

i jus dont think like hat is a weaker pick then armarouge for psyspam teams, they each have their strengths

[gentle delta]

Thinking a team needs to top cut a certain amount of teams to be meta is an odd take.

Less people play Psyspam because playing it at a high level is a massive headache for most people. It has lower representation overall. By comparison to other teams that regularly top cut, it's a similar % of the players getting that far with it.

[stone tide]

wait, what's psyspam?

[supple ether]

Expanding force+psyxhic terrain

[stone tide]

oh ok, ty

[rustic mountain]

teams with high results are what influence the meta so not sure how thats an odd take. ones that do well regularly are more likely to be used/picked up/adapted. less people play it as a result. the ones that do as mentioned previously have to play so weird and out of their minds to go far, and nobody has actually made it all the way. its like dozo/tatsu, pops up does well, disappears. because its not strong enough to adapt with the meta outside those exceptions

[molten oasis]

Armarouge/Hatterene and Indeedee

[strange fjord]

Dont forget about Iron Crown as well

[rustic mountain]

i think we might jus have a different definition of what meta defining is. to me its something that literally shifts the meta itself around it. psyspam has never done that

[gentle delta]

fraud mon

lmao clicked on a bo3 game and first match was against iron crown

[strange fjord]

the world is trying to tell you something lol

[kind ember]

I wonder how my opponent feels after my iron hands won a 1v3 against their team

[molten oasis]

I think crown is pretty decent on fast psyspam tho, or like, a Mon in the back when tr ends or something

[bold geode]

Tree

How's the kitchen

[rustic mountain]

ive honestly jus been using standard

wanna try out archaludon

[bold geode]

Don't tell me you've been using Alex Underhill team now Tree

[rustic mountain]

[bold geode]

I might have to commit crimes

[rustic mountain]

[bold geode]

Oh no

[rustic mountain]

lmao

[bold geode]

Why Tree
Why do this to me

[rustic mountain]

im sorry

it had to be this way

[bold geode]

Lmao
It's a good team

[rustic mountain]

it is

ive been off chien pao/dnite for awhile now i had to return

also enteis been great

[bold geode]

Lmao hey it just is
Fucking Entei, didn't think I'd have to account for a Fire type Dragonite essentially

[rustic mountain]

lmao

[bold geode]

But it's past form 👌

[rustic mountain]

i havent seen much of it outside early sd meta

it seems interesting

[bold geode]

It's actually good into Entei Dnite Pao

[rustic mountain]

breaking swipe spam?

[bold geode]

Breaking Swipes just mitigating them
Damn good

[rustic mountain]

and bulwark w.e?

[bold geode]

Plus Howl ooooh

[rustic mountain]

id imagine harc is gna pop up again too w/ the surge of dnite/pao

[bold geode]

Harcs a fraud

[rustic mountain]

lmao

wins 6 rings for this treatment? smh

[bold geode]

I tried to use it on the one thing that might've redeemed it this Reg
Sun HO
Nada

[rustic mountain]

lmfao

[bold geode]

It's actually ass now

[rustic mountain]

sun ho weirdly feels 1 dimensional

[bold geode]

So fuckin funny

[rustic mountain]

like whims sunny day stuff

[bold geode]

Cuz it basically is in a sense

You're mostly either setting sun or setting TW
Or both
That's it

If you wanna add extra, Fake Tears (though not as necessary)

[rustic mountain]

getting both off seems tough, i never let whims get more then 1 thing off myself

[bold geode]

I actually hate how linear it is

[bold geode]

You can do it, it's DEFINITELY possible

[rustic mountain]

haha yea ofc

jus not as consistent id say

[bold geode]

Remember the Federico team that was Soft TR with Hands Cresselia and Ursaluna? That team had Fake Out TR as guarantee for TR at the time

Do same thing

[rustic mountain]

wake teams feel like they need every multiplier and speed control and if u dont get both, gl

[bold geode]

Wake ain't bad, it's just high maintenance honestly
Like being honest, that's the reason why it's looked down on unlike Bolt or maybe Gouging Fire
You just need stuff for Wake

[rustic mountain]

ye put getting the set up needed as much as u do isnt easy to get done especially against good players

[bold geode]

Then again
Crown loves Psychic Terrain
Boulder well probably wants redirection for SD
And Leaves wants whatever it can get

[rustic mountain]

so it jus falls short

it falls victim to the time in which it was allowed

like itd b a lot better in like reg c

[bold geode]

Yeah
If it was in E, that shit would've been better
But now it's just fucking Bolt

Bolt is just good

[rustic mountain]

yea

[bold geode]

No surprise there

[rustic mountain]

and it came at a time wen urshi/torn was oppressive af

[bold geode]

I've actually done stupid shit due to ThunderClap so

[rustic mountain]

and is jus generally a good stat stick w/ good resistances into like fwg stuff

[bold geode]

I legit once tried to read a ThunderClap and miss it by failing a Fake Out (Rillaboom wasn't able to use Fake Out successfully)

[rustic mountain]

i had some1 jus b4 have the gall to attack twice w/ urshifu w/ thunderclap pressure on the field

[rustic mountain]

yea the mind games can b weird

[bold geode]

Yeah
I've put Aqua Jet back on Shifu now

Can't Clap my ass if I use Jet bitch

[rustic mountain]

haha yea

[bold geode]

Fuck Ice Spinner shenanigans, back to Jet

[rustic mountain]

scarf set im assuming

[bold geode]

Nah

Mystic

[rustic mountain]

oh

ice spinner mystic

[bold geode]

Mystic with no TW

[rustic mountain]

haha thats fine depending on team comp imo

[bold geode]

Basic balance cuz I'm a basic bitch

[rustic mountain]

lol

nothing wrong w/ balance

[bold geode]

Ye

Anyways Nini time
Goodnight y'all

[smoky hawk]

Night night

[little plank]

What's the chance of missing 3 wide lens sleep powders in a row?

[crude pollen]

I think like 5.4% chance of missing 3 times

[smoky hawk]

Dw the other day I missed heat wave twice so I lost. It has 90acc. I only needed 1 to hit.

[dull ibex]

hello again

[jovial storm]

Okidogi is niche pick to counter Incineroar.

Just realized that and wanted to hear opinions.

[molten oasis]

interesting

[smoky hawk]

Based on my experiences, it is probably underrated

Its typing is good both offensively and defensively

I'll revise that. The typing is good offensively. Decent defensively

[willow vault]

I’m really confused this morning, I’ve wanted to play a best of 3, I load in the match, my opponent has Alex Underhills team then leaves before the first match starts after seeing my team, when I felt they had a winnable matchup

[cyan smelt]

take the easy W

[willow vault]

Yeah I guess

[cyan smelt]

maybe they didn't feel confident with the team

[willow vault]

Maybe, it felt like the didn’t want to play best of 3

Question what are the main cores to prepare for?

[mighty stump]

https://x.com/vgccorner/status/1745985911525888193?s=20

[willow vault]

Thanks

[gentle crag]

crephace has given 1 Gen Rep to woodtofu

[willow vault]

I think I’m gonna need to improve my dondozo matchup

And maybe some item changes for help into psyspam

[nocturne holly]

I often do that too lmao
sometimes I forget to ev a Mon correctly or add the right move, item, etc

[willow vault]

Also I faced a tinkaton, which was very weird and lost them both games, because it couldn’t do anything against gholdengo

I guess it’s a lesson, feel free to try off meta picks but they are often off meta for a reason

[mighty stump]

People just suck at piloting most of the time

[willow vault]

Fair, that includes me

[timber falcon]

whats piloting

[mighty stump]

Playing the team

People that try and use alternative picks either:

• Suck at the teambuilding part,
• Suck at the playing part with the mon i.e. bringing it to appropriate situations instead of forcing it every time and/or making the right calls with it
• Suck at overall fundamentals as a whole so they don't recognise the above

Or also choose not to realise the limitations of said mon

[potent storm]

Hey now, that's not fair. I suck at all three aspects, not just one.

[bold geode]

Hi Tofu

[mighty stump]

Do you want to do some sets>

[bold geode]

Sure gimme sec though, outside taking dog out and it's fucking cold

Like it's 20 degrees out
Below freezing

[bold geode]

Ok name?

[mighty stump]

Gimme a moment

[bold geode]

Ok

[celest hinge]

I’m building a fun team with Flygon, do you think a sand team is okay

[grizzled pilot]

How good even is meloetta

[mighty stump]

Its a mythic, so it doesn't see competitive play.

[grizzled pilot]

Really?

Would be weird considering its obtainable now

[mighty stump]

That's just how it is. Pecharunt won't be allowed either.

[mighty stump]

Probably not with Flygon, the only real sand core that functions would be like Ttar + Excadrill

[grizzled pilot]

Why would they still be banned anyway it would be unfair to them considering they are obtainable in the dlc by the same token dlc mons shouldnt be comp usable

[cyan smelt]

they're mythicals

[tough idol]

A lot of the legends are still banned

Kyogre, Groudon etc

[grizzled pilot]

Well whatever i still find it dumb anyway how good is meloetta as a standalone pokemon

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 648: Meloetta

Types

Normal/Psychic

Abilities

Serene Grace

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

100/77/77/128/128/90

Total

600

Other Formes

Meloetta-Pirouette

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[next stump]

pretty good stats

128SpD is kinda crazy

[grizzled pilot]

Yeah

I was surprised too

I figured that she would swap spatk to atk but didnt realise she also gained that massive speed boost

For some reason? Idk why

I mean at least shes a bulky special wall in her base form

Maybe i should swap psychic out for confusion

[supple ether]

In a vacuum melo seems kinda good. Like a solid B-A tier. But in a format were all the mythicals are available, she's probably C-B tier

Covert cloak being introduced hurts too

[grizzled pilot]

What does that do again?

[supple ether]

Prevents secondary effects -- i.e. counters relic song and serene grace as a whole tbh

[grizzled pilot]

Ah

Wait IT STOPS MELOETTA FROM CHANGING FORMS???

Wow okay my girl finally got into a pokemon game after years only for her main gimmick to be walled by some fabric

Why did she even get serene grace anyway

She has like 0 moves that can fully take advantage of it

[dapper crag]

Move: Relic Song

Has a 10% chance to cause the target to fall asleep. If this move is successful on at least one target and the user is a Meloetta, it changes to Pirouette Forme if it is currently in Aria Forme, or changes to Aria Forme if it is currently in Pirouette Forme. This forme change does not happen if the Meloetta has the Sheer Force Ability. The Pirouette Forme reverts to Aria Forme when Meloetta is not active.

Type

Normal

Category

Special

Power

75

Accuracy

100

PP (max)

10 (16)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Authentic

Bypasses substitute.

Contact

Does not make contact.

Sound

Does not affect Soundproof.

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[supple ether]

I dont think it prevents the form change, but the real appeal of relic song is it being a 10% more accurate dark void (60% to sleep each opponent)

OH ITS 10%???

[grizzled pilot]

Meloetta can get sheer force?

[supple ether]

meloettas trash nvm

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 648: Meloetta-Pirouette

Types

Normal/Fighting

Abilities

Serene Grace

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

100/128/90/77/77/128

Total

600

Base Species

Meloetta

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[grizzled pilot]

Ugh tired brain

[nocturne holly]

you’d have to ability switch or some shit

[grizzled pilot]

Anyways so can she get sheer force whats up with the description

[grizzled pilot]

But she only gets serene grace

[dapper crag]

Move: Entrainment

Causes the target's Ability to become the same as the user's. Fails if the target's Ability is As One, Battle Bond, Comatose, Disguise, Gulp Missile, Ice Face, Multitype, Power Construct, RKS System, Schooling, Shields Down, Stance Change, Tera Shift, Truant, Zen Mode, or Zero to Hero, or the same Ability as the user, or if the user's Ability is As One, Battle Bond, Comatose, Commander, Disguise, Embody Aspect, Flower Gift, Forecast, Hunger Switch, Ice Face, Illusion, Imposter, Multitype, Neutralizing Gas, Poison Puppeteer, Power Construct, Power of Alchemy, Protosynthesis, Quark Drive, Receiver, RKS System, Schooling, Shields Down, Stance Change, Tera Shell, Tera Shift, Teraform Zero, Trace, Wonder Guard, Zen Mode, or Zero to Hero.

Type

Normal

Category

Status

Power

0

Accuracy

100

PP (max)

15 (24)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Does not make contact.

Reflectable

Affected by Magic Coat and Magic Bounce.

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[grizzled pilot]

So whats up with sheer force specifically

[supple ether]

It's saying it as an odd interaction

Like if you ever were to find yourself in that scenario, fhats what would happen

[grizzled pilot]

Thats so

Weird

[supple ether]

Detail is nice

[nocturne holly]

some moves can switch abilities
say something with sheer force ability switches it onto meloetta, meloetta would have sheer force
sheer force causes all secondary effects to be negated in trade for a 1.3x damage boost

so relic songs secondary effect wouldn’t work

tbh if meloetta was good I don’t think it would even run relic song

[supple ether]

Sheer force meloetta is just diet pixilate sylveon

[bold geode]

Why are we even talking about mythicals

[grizzled pilot]

Wanted to build meloetta

Mostly for fun

Then discovered shes just c tier?

Shes basically urshifu but without the fancy moves and op ability

[bold geode]

And a mythical so not useable in comp

[supple ether]

Worthwhile discussion methinks, Im hoping theyll allow it at the end of every generation

[grizzled pilot]

And also having to use a move just to switch to her stronger form

[supple ether]

Soul heart explosion is the meta Im waiting for

[dapper crag]

Meloetta's moveset:

Physical Moves

Acrobatics, Brick Break, Close Combat, Covet, Drain Punch, Dual Chop, Facade, Fire Punch, Fling, Focus Punch, Frustration, Giga Impact, Ice Punch, Knock Off, Last Resort, Low Kick, Low Sweep, Payback, Play Rough, Power-Up Punch, Quick Attack, Retaliate, Return, Reversal, Rock Smash, Secret Power, Shadow Claw, Stone Edge, Strength, Thunder Punch, Triple Axel, U-turn, Wake-Up Slap, Zen Headbutt

Special Moves

Alluring Voice, Charge Beam, Confusion, Dazzling Gleam, Disarming Voice, Dream Eater, Echoed Voice, Energy Ball, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, Hidden Power, Hyper Beam, Hyper Voice, Psybeam, Psychic, Psyshock, Relic Song, Round, Shadow Ball, Shock Wave, Signal Beam, Snore, Swift, Tera Blast, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Uproar

Status Moves

Ally Switch, Baton Pass, Calm Mind, Celebrate, Charm, Coaching, Confide, Double Team, Embargo, Endure, Fake Tears, Flash, Gravity, Heal Bell, Helping Hand, Hone Claws, Laser Focus, Light Screen, Magic Coat, Magic Room, Metronome, Perish Song, Protect, Psych Up, Rain Dance, Recycle, Rest, Role Play, Safeguard, Sing, Skill Swap, Sleep Talk, Snatch, Substitute, Sunny Day, Swagger, Swords Dance, Teeter Dance, Telekinesis, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Trick, Trick Room, Wonder Room, Work Up

Notes

A move displayed with Bold text benefits from Same-Type Attack Bonus when used by Meloetta.

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[bold geode]

[grizzled pilot]

Woulda been funny if they gave her the ability to utilise para flinch

[next stump]

with the way they handled wake/leaves distribution i would not be shocked to see a 2025 post worlds mythical format again

they clearly don't have problems with legalizing pokemon with shit availability

[ember linden]

-deoxys that’d be cool

[grizzled pilot]

Honestly thank god they stopped with the old mythical distribution method

It was so damn annoying

Little 12 yr old me seeing diancie thinking “oh wow shes pretty oh! She even has a cool mega oh boy i wonder how i can get he-“ NO

I coped so hard i wondered if i could evolve carbink into a diancie

[supple ether]

The new philosophy is kinda nice. I mean, it's still bad you have to basically own every title in order to get the mythicals, but at least in theory we'll have a static/spawnable encounter for every mythical pokemon without need for online servers or limited to specific time windows

[grizzled pilot]

I also hope they continue the theme of mythicals getting these playground rumour kind of obtainment methods

[grizzled pilot]

Wdym every title?

[ember linden]

I don’t like mochi anymore thanks to the epilogue

[grizzled pilot]

Dont spoil it for me i havent finished it

[nocturne holly]

woah I forgot about the epilogue lmao

[ember linden]

I’m not gonna say anything about it

[bold geode]

MOCHI MOCHI

[grizzled pilot]

I only got to the part where we make out with arven

[bold geode]

Huh?

[nocturne holly]

tf

[ember linden]

I missed something

[grizzled pilot]

Oh woops spoiler mb

[grizzled pilot]

I saw what you deleted

[ember linden]

I didn’t delete anything

[grizzled pilot]

[Insert goku prowler sfx video here]

[supple ether]

Jirachi, shaymin, arceus, mew darkrai - BDSP & PLA
Keldeo - SwSh
Meloetta - SV
Magearna - SM/USUM
Celebi - CVC
Deoxys - ORAS
Meltan - GO

That leaves just genesect, diancie, hoopa, volcanion, marshadowz zeraroa, victini and Manaphy and celebi left. Assuming they continue at their current rate we coule see as many as 2-4 of those mythicals find a permanent home leading up to gen10

[grizzled pilot]

Oh

Thats what ya mean

I hope magearna comes in

I want more story on her

[ember linden]

There’s nothing more to know about Magearna

[grizzled pilot]

Also im gonna be honest i didnt know deoxys was mythical i thought it was a legend considering how you can get it in oras

How op was deoxys in oras?

Mightve been a good thing that it was restricted then in that case

[grizzled pilot]

Oh right she did have that one movie

But i forgot about it

I dont think were gonna get marshadow too

Considering how tailor made it is for the region

I want diancie though

Like i want her shes so pretty especially with her mega

[nocturne holly]

-calc 176/16

[gentle crag]

Result: 11.000000

[grizzled pilot]

Gen10 better bring back megas

[nocturne holly]

-calc 10(11)-12

[gentle crag]

Result: 98.000000