competitive_discussion

[tired sage]

is the indeedee slower? cause if so then psy terrain will overwrite grassy

[short nebula]

ok ill try that thanks alot man

[gentle crag]

thebroda. has given 1 Gen Rep to dollarmonke

[short nebula]

ohhhh so thats how it works

[cyan smelt]

sometimes people will keep rilla in the back to override psychic terrain

[bold geode]

Oh I said Rillaboom in the back cuz it resets terrain, which with that team is not as ideal

[short nebula]

hahahh didnt know pokemon have so many layers

HAHHAH

[bold geode]

Cuz Psychic Terrain not only makes Psyspam work, which is what this is essentially, but will also keep you safe from priority moves, meaning Harc can't Espeed stuff unless it's Flying

[tired sage]

but could always switch dee out…
or bring dee in the back cause some people online think if you don’t lead dee, you don’t have dee on the team

[bold geode]

Yeah comp has a lot lol

[short nebula]

ngl this team op as hell

[cyan smelt]

yeah i did an awesome switch with the bravado team the other day, i switched in indeedee and prevented a taunt from torn

[short nebula]

i am 1 game away from master ball tier

[bold geode]

Good

[tired sage]

dang-

[short nebula]

20W 6L

[tired sage]

i need to actually hit master

never hit it once

[short nebula]

what do you get for hitting master?

only lp?

[cyan smelt]

end of season rewards are HM, bottle caps, ability patches etc

[short nebula]

oh cool

how long is a season?

[cyan smelt]

usually a month

reg e ends on NYD

[short nebula]

what does reg e or reg d mean

diff rules?

[cyan smelt]

it's just the format and yeah it's just which pokemon are allowed

reg f will allow mons like incineroar, whimsicott and metagross

[short nebula]

are those mons even in the game?

[cyan smelt]

they will be with dlc 2

[short nebula]

ohhh

so jan will be reg f?

[cyan smelt]

jan 4th yes

jan 4th - april 4th

idk if walking wake and iron leaves are allowed

[gentle delta]

Its a fine team

[short nebula]

i dont have those.. do u guys know if they will come back?

[cyan smelt]

they'll probably be available in dlc

[short nebula]

ngl they ugly as hell tho

[cyan smelt]

i hope they add the non-paradox forms too

there's something nice about a tailwind setter that can't be flinched

[short nebula]

@bold geode followed ur suggestion worked like a charm

thanks alot man

amardee ohko thorn and Harc

[fallen rivet]

Has hoodra had any use in vgc at all

[mighty stump]

Iron Defense Body Press style

Except it uses “shelter”

Same thing

[fallen rivet]

Is that interchangeable with acid armor

[mighty stump]

Usually with Shell Armor to avoid Urshifu’s crits allowing it to actually maintain use behind screens

[cyan smelt]

It's too easy to taunt though

[mighty stump]

Yeah but technically Shelter being lower PP is more efficient

[fallen rivet]

Oh?

[mighty stump]

and “optimal” under the niche scenario of getting Encore Locked

[dull ibex]

hello

[fallen rivet]

Ah

[mighty stump]

Allowing you to escape the lock sooner

[fallen rivet]

Hi

[mighty stump]

its why I dont PP up my Protects

[dull haven]

[dull ibex]

how is everyone

[mighty stump]

❤️

[fallen rivet]

I forgot to pp up extreme speed on my Harc once and it won me a game

[mighty stump]

Dead tired

[dull ibex]

I feel that tbh

[short nebula]

Yayyyy

[dull ibex]

ayyy

now you know how I feel

[cyan smelt]

why do i get the feeling walking wake and iron leaves will be banned again for reg f

[dull ibex]

why would they

[cyan smelt]

because in the news section for reg f it says, certain pokemon may not be used

even though that's probably just legendaries

ffs just lost twice in a row with the bravado team

[cyan smelt]

lost a 3rd time fuck ultra ball tier

[strange fjord]

Ultra Ball purgatory is real lol

[cyan smelt]

even with a team that placed 4th in brisbane i can't win consistently, i really am garbage

[dull ibex]

^

[mighty stump]

Well

Teams are one thing

Player is another thjng

Calling yourself garbage can also be a way to try and absolve pilot responsibility in a sense, and also its a shame to feel that way about yourself

[strange fjord]

Love Sinistcha enabling my Belly Drum Munchlax this gen.

[mighty stump]

Definitely aren’t

[mighty stump]

Also they always say this like every Reg

[cyan smelt]

yeah and ww has always been banned

[strange fjord]

hope we get multiple new Pokemon in the dlc. besides duraladon and dipplin evos

[charred saddle]

there should be a lot i think

[strange fjord]

swsh has the regis, urshifu, calyrex, and the horses. only the legendaries right?

unless im forgetting some

[cyan smelt]

ok i'm starting to get the hang of this team

[strange fjord]

what kind of tean are you using?

[cyan smelt]

bravadosun

wooo master ball baby

lost to a focus sash pelipper in mb

bullshit

[brisk hatch]

I personally don't play in in person tournaments, but if you do better start preping for reg g if you plan on being a world champ cause it is going to be a 1 restricted format.. I have no doubt

I hope wolfey takes ice rider calyrex to the top and becomes world champ once more. I believe in him, I'm not sure if he believes in himself as much anymore. . 😦

[dull ibex]

We Have a long time til reg G

[brisk hatch]

I know but restricted formats are tough

[dull ibex]

Groudon/Koraidon is what I'm worried about

[brisk hatch]

I would be coming up with ideas now.

[dull ibex]

I've had ideas since launch

[cyan smelt]

groudon/koraidon/venusaur

[dull ibex]

Not venu tbh

People are overestimating venu

[brisk hatch]

Regidrago eats koraidon/miraidon for breakfast

[dull ibex]

Tera*

[brisk hatch]

Bulbasaur was my very first starter ...it has a soft spot in my heart ❤

[dull ibex]

Besides we have a MUCH better sun abuser then venu

[cyan smelt]

ffs lost two in a row in mb

bunch of sweaty tryhards in master ball

[brisk hatch]

I'm horrible without trick room.
But I feel like I'm one of the best TR players in the world.
On the ladder anyway

[dull ibex]

Flutter mane

[dull ibex]

Yeah? It's the top tier of ranked.

[brisk hatch]

What's u guys favorite new mon this gen.
Glastrier is my fave from SS

Blood Moon this gen

[dull ibex]

Mane or Hands this gen

[brisk hatch]

Iron hands is fucking amazing.. best New pokemon added vgc wise IMO

[dull ibex]

Mane is just excellent

[brisk hatch]

I don't use it much myself. I just ko em

[dull ibex]

Best sun abuser in the game imo

[brisk hatch]

I ohko flutter most of the time even with blood moon. I use weakness policy

It's actually quite easy to switch into a drain punch or grassy glide with such high defense

Doesn't like wood hammer tho!!

Lol

[dull ibex]

Mhm

[brisk hatch]

Anyone tried tera grass rillaboom? With grass plate or miracle seed?
Does it one shot flutter?

Grassy glide I mean

[charred saddle]

yes

tera grass adamant 252 ev glide gets ohko on standard 100hp 80 def

[cyan smelt]

dammit i keep losing

[brisk hatch]

I wish my ogrepon has no good speed iv! I know I'm weird

[cyan smelt]

i'm just gonna lead indeedee drago a bunch

[charred saddle]

252+ Atk Miracle Seed Tera Grass Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 100 HP / 80 Def Flutter Mane in Grassy Terrain: 284-336 (102.8 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

[cyan smelt]

i seriously think i need coaching

[brisk hatch]

You have set up a sweep like that most of the time kal

[charred saddle]

not every flutter is 100 80 but you get the gist anyway

[brisk hatch]

@charred saddle thanks

[gentle crag]

pokeman1986 has given 1 Gen Rep to abused1

[charred saddle]

-1 252+ Atk Miracle Seed Tera Grass Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arcanine-Hisui in Grassy Terrain: 350-412 (105.7 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

this is the funny one

most have some bulk in it, but not much

so hammer + glide can get the ko

if you get the switch in

[brisk hatch]

Speed on my ogrepon is 115
What do need to worry about not outspeeding without trickroom? I guess I'm asking how high I should go with its speed.. remember I'm hard trick room tho

@charred saddle

I ev. Trained bulk and hp mostly

With brave nature

[charred saddle]

ehh idk?

since ogerpon speed is awkward for TR

[cyan smelt]

are all rillas fire tera now?

[charred saddle]

itll get outspeed by most TR user

[brisk hatch]

I'm having success at the moment. 8w 3 loss

[charred saddle]

ig so

im not familiar with speed things, so i wont say much.

but in my opinion, TR waterpon can still work for redirections. but you can have better alternatives like indeedee

[charred saddle]

not every rilla runs fire i think, it can still run grass for seed set.
i did mine water, but was thinking of changing it to fire anyway haha

resisting fairy for better matchup against flutters
you do get the weakness on ground tho

[brisk hatch]

How is best to deal with smeargle when it arrives.. I've never play a generation with smeargle but apparently it's horrible

[cyan smelt]

why do i lose against anyone half decent

[charred saddle]

i just started playing reg E lol

[brisk hatch]

@charred saddle I like reg e 🙂

I hope u have a successful season

[charred saddle]

pretty good i would say

gl to you too

[brisk hatch]

Be prepared for dragon tera
A lot of those cause of ogrepon I assume

It walls Pon

[cyan smelt]

i keep getting my ass whooped by people better than me

[short nebula]

hey guys

is there a website i can go to see rental teams?

[cyan smelt]

victoryroad

[short nebula]

or like top teams from recent competitions

u mean these?

[cyan smelt]

yeah

[charred saddle]

theres paste there

[short nebula]

yea i am looking at the top one

how do u guys figure out the combos

hahahha i just see a bunch of stats

[charred saddle]

you mean as in how to play it?

prob jsut watch them play

but other people can have different approach on the team

[short nebula]

yea

[charred saddle]

for both james baek team and Michael Zhang theres a yt video about it

james baek did a video about his own team and the general idea on it, you can watch the yt
https://youtu.be/chDhVV0HfjI?si=FJ26gJMxNa8LKmc4

and for the komoo ttar team, it got featured my cybertronVGC. he did a lot of explanations on the team and the gameplays
https://youtu.be/h1x0xl8zHnI?si=U0ndRjUNqRgiXhMH

[short nebula]

OH

I DIDNT KNOW THAT WAS THE SAME JAMES

HAHHAHAHHAHA

[cyan smelt]

someone just cancelled on me as soon as i set up tr

[brisk hatch]

Good ways to stop torkoal lilligant??

Fake out??

[charred saddle]

thats one, other is change the weather

[brisk hatch]

I just ran into that cybertron featured team from about a week prior qith regidrago

[charred saddle]

that team had ghost tera lillikoal

[brisk hatch]

Yeah I had neither option

[charred saddle]

then prob get some prio moves, or pray they didnt ghost tera and take the FO

[brisk hatch]

I was hoping booster bundle would outspeed lilli

[charred saddle]

no

[brisk hatch]

With taunt

[charred saddle]

in sun it has 300 ish speed

[brisk hatch]

Yeah I found out Hard

Lol

[charred saddle]

252 jolly speed hits 172, in sun its 344

[brisk hatch]

Damn

[charred saddle]

252 adamant hits 157, 314 speed

[short nebula]

the cybertron team

[charred saddle]

max speed timid bundle and flutter cant outspeed that too

[short nebula]

its adamant

[charred saddle]

.

[short nebula]

wdym hits 157

[short nebula]

wait nvm ignore my qn

under sun its speed is x2??

[dapper crag]

Ability: Chlorophyll

If Sunny Day is active, this Pokemon's Speed is doubled. This effect is prevented if this Pokemon is holding a Utility Umbrella.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[short nebula]

when pokemon have a x1 boost in lets say atk

it means their atk is doubled?

[charred saddle]

no

+2 is double

[brisk hatch]

I just got matched with the same team.. back to back 😦

[short nebula]

+1 is an additional 50%?

[charred saddle]

iirc yes, +6 is 4x

[short nebula]

oh ok cool

[charred saddle]

oh mb i typoed

[short nebula]

brambleghast team is fun af

turn 1 passive proc 3 times

amazing mon hhahahah

[brisk hatch]

That cybertron team is everywhere

3 times in a row. Wtf

Button mashers

That team requires very little skill..
Lilli torkaol
Drago
Indeedee armorrouge
Gimme a break

[short nebula]

if you have a fluttermane with tr imprison

shuts the team down quite abit

shuts down the tr and drago cant handle flutter

[brisk hatch]

I use trick room myself.. that's why it's a problem..gonna have to make some adjustments

[short nebula]

oh....

damn that team can dish out way too much dmg

[brisk hatch]

Is follow me good for preventing taunt hitting dusclops?

Prankster taunt also?

[dull ibex]

Yeah

Clops plus redirect is great

[brisk hatch]

Cool thanks@dull ibex

[gentle crag]

pokeman1986 has given 1 Gen Rep to redstonejesus

[dull ibex]

🫡

[brisk hatch]

I can't wait to play BG3 Christmas day!
I've never played...
It looks so cool

Pokemon dlc should hold me over til then 🙂

[short nebula]

guys if i want ur opinions on a team i created

do i post here or?

[mighty stump]

Post here

Preferrably using a Pokepaste

[short nebula]

Ok i came up with this team coz i am getting annoyed by TR and Priority teams (chien-pao,dragonite and rillaboom). So i have Indeedee for her ability and imprison Flutter Mane for the TR. The other 4 mons are for amd and speed control. The EV spread on them just generic (and are most likely wrong). Would like your comments on the Mons and EV spread.

https://pokepast.es/c1eaf9be439b5724

[mighty stump]

Sure

[short nebula]

oh and this is the type chart for the team

[mighty stump]

Generally the EV spreads look fine except for Flutter Mane.

• You can actually just condense Flutter Mane and Indeedee-F and run Farigiraf instead. Indeedee-F can still have its terrain removed by Rillaboom leaving you only with Redirection. This allows you to run a better, more offensive set on Flutter Mane.

• Even on TR Mane teams, you never run Max HP -Spe Nature Flutter Mane as you want something as fast as that to instead act as a baseline out-of-TR check to follow up with your faster Pokemon.

• Trailblaze feels kinda meh on Ogerpon when you have options such as Swords Dance or Stomping Tantrum for Heatran instead, which depending on the board position can be tricky to navigate

There are bulkier FM spreads out there that are slower as well, so you’d generally just use those

You don’t have to be the SLOWEST just SLOWER

[short nebula]

sorry i am quite new so i may not understand some of the terms

what is FM?

[mighty stump]

Flutter Mane

Just an abbreviation

[short nebula]

ah okok thank you so much for the tips

How would u categorise my team

is it agrresive or a balance team

[mighty stump]

It leans towards Hyper Offense

[short nebula]

what are the biggest weakness you see in this sort of teams?

[mighty stump]

Its just down to being able to pressure with your KOs. This team does not have any sort of safe switch in so you have to keep up the tempo

Which is why having Flutter Mane alter its set to be more offensive and have Indeedee be changed for Farigiraf can also be more consistent. Nothing wrong with Flutter Mane being your imprison user, but id also just prefer having Indeedee do that for you

[short nebula]

i changed it to smth like this

[mighty stump]

Helping Hand/Follow Me/Imprison/Trick Room is fine for the purposes at hand. You might not have an offensive move but the only relevant taunter is also a Prankster.

So you're not really bothered

What are those EVs for?

[short nebula]

i copied it off the smogon web

hahah no clue

[mighty stump]

Don't use Smogon for VGC sets

Preferrably get your sets from Pikalytics

Its more tailored

towards VGC

You probably won't get an explanation there either

[short nebula]

ah okok

[mighty stump]

But it's still somewhat more relevant

The calculator website also auto adds some sets

Which you can try

Flutter Mane @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 212 HP / 132 Def / 36 SpA / 4 SpD / 124 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Shadow Ball
• Moonblast
• Dazzling Gleam
• Icy Wind

[short nebula]

ohhh okok lemme play arounf with those

[mighty stump]

Usually you would opt for Protect on one of these slots, but this is Booster Spe

Certain mons like FM want to have a more complex baseline spread like being able to live Icicle Crash from Chien Pao

[short nebula]

ahhh i see

too new to this i dont know what i should be calculating for

[mighty stump]

Flutter Mane @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 76 HP / 140 Def / 84 SpA / 4 SpD / 204 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Shadow Ball
• Moonblast
• Dazzling Gleam
• Protect

For example

Don't worry about calcing

Yet

You can learn that later down the line or you can also pay a visit to VGCguide.com

They have a whole walkthrough of the process

[short nebula]

i got to master ball 118 today played 10 more games and i am at 3k now

thats why i am trying to learn how to build a team

[short nebula]

ahhh dillion recommended me that yest

[mighty stump]

Yeah Dillon won't steer you wrong

If you want to teambuild, its always best to start with a plan in mind, even if the plan is as miniscule as "I want to use this Pokemon in the metagame, how will I make that work"

[short nebula]

i started off with wanting to use the op mons in the meta hahahah

urshifu torn and oger

i see them the most and i just started yest

[mighty stump]

Fair enough

[pseudo wigeon]

I need teambuilding help

Anyone able to help?

[cyan smelt]

this is bullshit, snarl just double crit me

i hate this game

[ionic shell]

Are sun teams still alive

[pseudo wigeon]

No one able to help?

[short nebula]

@mighty stump you able to help him? hahha

[mighty stump]

Meh, Lillikoal mostly if not Tornadus setting Sun but those aren';t true sun teams

[mighty stump]

What do you need

[ionic shell]

Rip, just came back from a hiatus I was spamming zard sun teams back then

[pseudo wigeon]

To figure out my team

[ionic shell]

Tr teams still meta?

[mighty stump]

Yeah, what are you trying to figure out

[mighty stump]

Yeah

[pseudo wigeon]

I'll dm

[mighty stump]

Either Psyspam or Cress TR, you get the occasional Bloodmoon Ursaluna/Dusclops

[ionic shell]

Damn ursaluna from legends?

saw that urshafu water is still meta what’s the team comp for him

[charred saddle]

bloodmoon ursaluna is the DLC mon, the regular Ursaluna are from PLA

[ionic shell]

Nice, I just bought the dlc

[cyan smelt]

i hate vgc

[ionic shell]

Rillaboom with grassy surge still useable? Knock off, slam, uproar, woodhammer

[dull ibex]

I love psyspam

I should play it more

[cyan smelt]

how is garganacl faster than ursaluna

[mighty stump]

0 Spe Ursaluna vs non-0 speed Garganacl

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 934: Garganacl

Type

Rock

Abilities

Purifying Salt, Sturdy, Clear Body (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

100/100/130/45/90/35

Total

500

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[cyan smelt]

ladder is bullshit

[mighty stump]

Ursaluna hits 49 while Garg is 55 at base

[next stump]

drop Slam and Uproar, but yes

[mighty stump]

I mean, there definitely is random shit on ladder that you can write off but I think you should just stop playing for today

You're clearly tilted

Get some snacks

Something nice to eat

[cyan smelt]

i'm just mad at getting matched at someone ranked 255 or whatever, how am i supposed to beat them

[mighty stump]

Well

Its early days of the ladder

Just about anyone can get up there at the moment

[cyan smelt]

except me

[mighty stump]

And who cares, play each game and don't worry about who or what rank you're playing

[cyan smelt]

i can't even win with this bravado team

[short nebula]

@mighty stump any chance u have any fun teams to try out?

[mighty stump]

Pins should have a repository of teams

if not scroll through #rental_teams

One of mine is there as well.

[short nebula]

the google docs?

[mighty stump]

Not google docs

[short nebula]

as in this

[mighty stump]

Yes

[short nebula]

ok thank u!

[dull ibex]

I want to play with Groudon again

😭

[cyan smelt]

well i managed to beat someone ranked 848

[dull ibex]

Congrats

[cyan smelt]

i think i'll stop there for tonight

[keen karma]

Why not

[cyan smelt]

i guess i'm doomed to forever be at 50% wr

[mighty stump]

I mean I think your mental just isn't productive for VGC

[keen karma]

One thing i recommend is pay close attention to your mu’s

What are you leading with most

Or actually send some of your replays

[cyan smelt]

mix of indeedee armarouge and indeedee drago, and it's on cart

[short nebula]

whats the bravado team

[keen karma]

The team you were kinda using

[short nebula]

Oh

that team is fun hahah

[nocturne holly]

Which one?

[keen karma]

Bravado

Armadd lilikoal ursaluna regidrago

[nocturne holly]

ah

[short nebula]

if no FM, goldengo or Harc just open drago and indeedee

and its a sweep

[cyan smelt]

unless heatran teras into fairy

don't lead it into heatran

[short nebula]

ngl that team i most lead tork lili

if not arm and deedee

drago to clean up after TR is done and somehow i havent won

[nocturne holly]

What’s your team?

[cyan smelt]

i'm using the bravado team

[short nebula]

i think he is asking what u brought into heatran

[cyan smelt]

i think indeedee and drago

and then i had torkoal and ursaluna in the back

[dull ibex]

Armadee

[nocturne holly]

And you said you’re struggling to armadeedee?

[cyan smelt]

no

[nocturne holly]

nvm you didn’t what do you struggle with?

[cyan smelt]

flutter, harc, tera fairy heatran

[nocturne holly]

Do you have tr set when you struggle with these?

[cyan smelt]

no

[nocturne holly]

armadeedee is good for those mons
I’m forgetting does that arma have wide guard or protect on it?

[cyan smelt]

it has protect

[short nebula]

lead armdeedee next time when u see FM goldengo

worked for me hahha

[nocturne holly]

Yea so protect turn 1 then tr with armadeedee

[mighty stump]

Just seems inefficient without having a real replay

[mighty stump]

You get doubled and now you don't have a way to set TR safely

[nocturne holly]

follow me tr

[mighty stump]

You have to Follow Me + Tera TR lol

[nocturne holly]

against harc fuck

but yea you can ask prog
He’s really experienced in tr

[pure ginkgo]

Can someone help me build a good team? I can send in dms the one ive got rn

[short nebula]

@mighty stump hey man made a new team, would like your opinion on it. Same idea counter prio and TR with Farigraf, however this time with Brambleghast to counter thorn cetran etc. Mons Ev spread are from teams i have tried out today so not so sure how it flows together. Lemme know if you think this is better then the last team.

https://pokepast.es/10f52b7e3c17d5f4

[keen karma]

One thing ive seen is people running triple ghost with branble

Dengo, flutter, bramble

[wispy spade]

Is there an advantage to triple ghost in this case?

[short nebula]

was just about to ask that

[keen karma]

Im pretty sure it was baeks team look at his team report

Ive just seen it alot when laddering and running into bramble’s

[short nebula]

the bramble idea is really cool

some ppl still continue to spam heat wave into it

[keen karma]

Also i dont think there is much wrong with triple ghost its a super good typing one thing i would watch out for is opposing flutter mu’s

And chiyu which shouldnt be the worst to play around

I think it was laic

[dapper crag]

makes you rethink using fighting/normal moves on any Pokemon really

[keen karma]

https://pokepast.es/3b4f0b2d7268f422

[keen karma]

And this

[keen karma]

I think for chiyu you run tera fairy mb

[keen karma]

@short nebula

[short nebula]

yup looking through it

trying to figure out how hw is gonna handle TR teams

[wispy spade]

Hw?

[keen karma]

How*

[short nebula]

how

[dapper crag]

you blow their TR setter with huge damage before they get it up, you Taunt it with Torn or you stall it with switch-ins + protect.

[keen karma]

Yeah you just brute force i think

I dont think anything is just taking a tera fairy moon blast from flutter well off of neutral

[wispy spade]

How common is dark tera to avoid prankster taunt?

[keen karma]

More common than mental i think

[dapper crag]

Not that common, Munchstats gives less then 10% for Dark Tera torn.

Thing is, you can scout the Taunt with Protect or by going on the offensive.

[keen karma]

No tr setters i think

[dapper crag]

not every Tornadus runs Taunt

[keen karma]

Is what they are talking abt

Im pretty sure most torns run tera ghost

[dapper crag]

Cress I assume Mental Herb mostly

[mighty stump]

The only TR team people are generally concerned about would be Psyspam. Chi-Yu would already be able to somewhat alleviate that. Then you just gotta keep repositioning/cycling until you're out of TR to close out the game.

[keen karma]

Chiyu + gholdengo destroys

[mighty stump]

Cress kinda prefers Safety Goggles, while Mental Herb is valid, you can't Lunar Blessing Spores away

Which is why some opt for that

[keen karma]

Wait he doesnt have gholdengo

[dapper crag]

I see big usage for Mental Herb Cress

[keen karma]

Mb

[mighty stump]

Or Rocky Helmet to not get smacked by Watershifu

[short nebula]

ah i see...

[dapper crag]

So I never gamble Taunting the Cress

[short nebula]

how do u cycle till then

[keen karma]

Rocky helmet cress is a thing?

[mighty stump]

Protect and switches lol

TR has a time limit

[keen karma]

I wanna make a balance team

[mighty stump]

So you wanna be able to pin your opponent before TR is up

Or at least reposition for a second TR

[short nebula]

thats what i am trying to do

stuggling ngl

[keen karma]

You seem to like making ho

[dapper crag]

Balance has a fun learning curve

[short nebula]

ye i gotta practice that

[keen karma]

I just like limiting my opponents options

[wispy spade]

I kind of want to run double fake out on incineroar and iron hands... Assuming fire cat will be available soon

[short nebula]

keep switching in the wrong mons at the wrong time

[dapper crag]

Balance is nice but you can fuck yourself up super easily

[keen karma]

Was lando t + incin popular in past gens @mighty stump ?

[mighty stump]

Rarely do you switch in HO

[dapper crag]

You're not as consistent into one specific gameplay

[mighty stump]

In the sense of you end up losing the momentum you're supposed to keep up

[keen karma]

Arent ho mons usually on the frailer side

[mighty stump]

Obviously regardless of which archetype, there is stil switching

[short nebula]

HO?

[mighty stump]

Just gotta be extra careful because of the frailty, or you tend to switch as a sac

[keen karma]

Hyper offense

[short nebula]

the new team i made is it still hyper offense?

[dapper crag]

You go glass cannons with big damage

[mighty stump]

Linear teams like 2-2-2 Dondozo and HO tend to lean more on piloting than anything

[dapper crag]

With no prospects of outmaneuvering your opponent

[mighty stump]

Becuase you need to be able to identify your win-con on team preview at that point to maximise its use

and make the right calls

[keen karma]

My beloved

[mighty stump]

Since the margin for error, as much as its huge against inexperienced players cause they panic at the sight of "big damage"

[keen karma]

Easiest team in the world for me to pilot

[mighty stump]

Is still pretty low

Especially with the power creep we ended up at

[dapper crag]

Dondozo looks frightening but you end up punching through since they can only get 1 move a turn

Always good to have a gameplan when you encounter one

Cause it's gonna come up

[keen karma]

Idk how i just popped off immediately i ran 2-2-2

@molten oasis is tommy tuesdays cart or showdown

[mighty stump]

Cart

[dapper crag]

don't be overconfident seeing couple of wins in low ranks though

i was all joyous getting to master ball winning every game and ended up not sustaining it long enough

[mighty stump]

https://x.com/cloverbells21/status/1731534141445787835?s=46&t=NSIK9f9OViHUJnm37QZcEQ

[bold geode]

[mighty stump]

God not you again

[bold geode]

I always come back

[keen karma]

sadly

[chrome knot]

my balls itch

[keen karma]

TMI

[bold geode]

Same

Story of my life

[chrome knot]

truth

[bold geode]

Therapist: what is your biggest regret in life
Emmie: my balls itch

[chrome knot]

whaaaat

[bold geode]

Lmao
"My biggest regret? I didn't scratch em"

[keen karma]

scratching don't work

[bold geode]

Right
The good ol pinch and roll

[mighty stump]

Man

can we not

Like this is clearly inappropriate

[keen karma]

im running weezing palance

@mighty stump you think it will work?

[mighty stump]

Palafin sucks though

Ive done that already

It sucks

[keen karma]

ah it sucks?

rip

[mighty stump]

I tried different sets but they can capitalise too easily on Palaifn

[keen karma]

what are some good neutralizing abusers then

[bold geode]

Tofu you're inappropriate

[mighty stump]

Monke

Do I seem like i'm joking about this

[chrome knot]

[mighty stump]

Paradox mons

[bold geode]

Ok

Emmie is that emote from Kon too

[keen karma]

so ultimately https://pokepast.es/07a6f2992b35972e

[chrome knot]

i believe so but it could also be from anothwr show i know

[mighty stump]

Yeah

Honeslty its just about recognising how muhc of Weezing do you need on the field before then letting yourself get rid of it

[keen karma]

i got that from watching wolfey's vods

but at the same time i dont want to use his exact team

specs mane is perfect on this tho

weezing balance is such a specific archetype

i feel like its gonna be insane when incin is back

[mighty stump]

https://x.com/ororonronn/status/1730887610556653822?s=20 theres also this

You can also treat every game as forcing statsticks

[tired sage]

tera grass heatran is outdated now-?

[mighty stump]

I prefer Tera Grass again now that Ogerpon-Hearth has died down in usage

Its better into Balance teams with Amoonguss/Lillikoal

[keen karma]

this team needs tera fairy anyways

or hands becomes a nightmare

[tired sage]

[mighty stump]

Youre neutral anyways

So eh

[keen karma]

alr ig imma try building this team today

max max lando is outdated right?

[mighty stump]

Not necessarily

[keen karma]

the benchmark i need is just beating mane right?

iirc 137 speed

[dapper crag]

Damage Calculator

Pokémon Showdown Damage Calculator
Nimbasa City Post Damage Calculator (VGC)

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[gentle crag]

Result: 205.500000

[keen karma]

138

then you just dump rest hp?

[keen karma]

is there like a paste of this

i cant translate it

[chrome knot]

https://twitter.com/ororonronn/status/1730887610556653822?s=20

[keen karma]

i see the tweet

but where is the paste

i cant read the team report

im looking for the evs

[mighty stump]

If you scroll down you see the EVs lol

The stats are in the standard stat order

Just the Japanese have always displayed it this way, and Koreans I think

[keen karma]

hp atk spD?

[mighty stump]

Bracketed numbers are EVs

The rest are final stat numbers

[keen karma]

but like which stats

[mighty stump]

The order of stats lol

[keen karma]

i know there is an order but like

[mighty stump]

HP ATK DEF SPATK SPDEF SPE

Its always that

Its the Showdown order

[keen karma]

OH

so its saying what he's changed

i like speed on my hands so im probably not using that

[mighty stump]

202 is the final stat number (212 HP EVs)

For example

[keen karma]

i was confused i thought it was like subtracting or something 🤦‍♂️

[bold geode]

Ngl I thought that shit was doing subtraction

[keen karma]

thats exactly what i thought

[bold geode]

I'm just like what is this math shit

[mighty stump]

bruh

Lol

[chrome knot]

monke…

[bold geode]

What....

[chrome knot]

u stupid

[bold geode]

NUH UH

[chrome knot]

yuh huh af

[bold geode]

NUH UH

I'm telling Tofu

@mighty stump Emmie called me stupid

[chrome knot]

he’d agree

[tired sage]

[bold geode]

Emmie
Your mom

[chrome knot]

yeah well your dad

[bold geode]

You found him?

[chrome knot]

nope!

[bold geode]

Damn
Bro knows I suck at hide and seek

[keen karma]

mine is in hawaii right now i just can't exactly pin point where

i guess hes bringing back milk from hawaii

[bold geode]

They were out at the store, so he had to go to Hawaii for some

He just could NOT go to the next town over
HAD to go to Hawaii

[chrome knot]

think if he was abusive he’d call it hawaiian punch?

[bold geode]

Bruh

[molten oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/esqueleto-gif-24452082

[fallen rivet]

Wut

[vague whale]

Is corviknight relevant anymore?

What really causes corv issues?

[mighty stump]

Gholdengo being extremely relevant is one

Relatively frail against SpAtkers

Urshifu invalidates almost every Iron Defense Pokemon

[vague whale]

On paper he's a great type fit for my team I'm just not too familiar with him

[mighty stump]

Ivy Cudgel on Ogerpon having 1/8 chance to crit is also annoying, especially if it’s Hearthflame

[vague whale]

It sounds like I already have the pokemon to handle his threats

[mighty stump]

Typing becomes a little bit less relevant unless you can really leverage those perfect flips

[vague whale]

I'd be dancing around fire a bit too much

[mighty stump]

Tornadus carrying Taunt often enough is also annoying for it

[vague whale]

Right now my team is a-ninetales, ironbundle, chi-yu, water oger, and dragapult

I can see that being frustrating

I need a way to resist rock and still hold some solid defense

[mighty stump]

What is your thought process with using Corviknight on that team

[mighty stump]

Rock is neutral to Corviknight.

[vague whale]

While being able to hurt fairy super effective

[mighty stump]

Kingambit, Gholdengo, Heatran

[vague whale]

Use veil to boost his defenses and bulk up to kill

Kingambit may be a better choice I'm hesitant to use heatran with chi-yu already present

I considered gholdengo but it'd be an incredibly spatk heavy team

[mighty stump]

If you want Iron Defense style, then might as well run Kommo-o for the regional winning set or Hoodra that can actually take advantage of Screens

At least both of those do not auto fold to Urshifu

and also stands up better towards Flutter

[vague whale]

I'll try out kingambit I'd need to build a goodra or kommo-o before i could use it

[mighty stump]

Majority of the team also just seems more on the frail side without much damage mitigation aside from Screens

Chi-Yu also actively hurts your own setup mon if you’re trying to establish an anchor

[vague whale]

It's mostly success through high damage spread

Trick room causes an issue so having a slow bulk mon can help turn the tides but I want it to be relevant outside of the trick room matchup too

Most of the mons are very fast very high damage

[mighty stump]

Then the next question would be why have slow play elements such as screens on a fairly frail team

You could probably transition this into a bulkier team while maintaining the same coverage quite easily

If you ran Heatran over Chi-Yu you’d find what you would want, and Dragapult isn’t the most amazing attacker without Chien-Pao in my personal opinion

[vague whale]

I like the hyper offense since most people try to play around the screen

Ironically the matchs I've won very rarely do I use veil

What would you suggest in place of dragapult if I did attempt a bulkier team?

He's been incredibly useful in outspeeding flutters and other threats

But I suppose with icy wind it's a moot point

[dull ibex]

Well I mean... if the shoe fits.

[bold geode]

You got a perfect one then

[dull ibex]

I'm not the one complaining about being stupid 🙂

[bold geode]

See I'm an idiot
But I'm not stupid

[dull ibex]

Potato Potato

[bold geode]

Your mom

[dapper crag]

Ability: Neutralizing Gas

While this Pokemon is active, Abilities have no effect. This Ability activates before hazards and other Abilities take effect. Does not affect the As One, Battle Bond, Comatose, Disguise, Gulp Missile, Ice Face, Multitype, Power Construct, Protosynthesis, Quark Drive, RKS System, Schooling, Shields Down, Stance Change, Zen Mode or Zero to Hero Abilities.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[nocturne holly]

What item on slaking

[tired sage]

life orb maybe?

[nocturne holly]

eh

I’m thinking av but need av on hands

[willow vault]

Thoughts on Entei next for the next reg?

[next stump]

solid pokémon

inner focus extreme speed user with a nice STAB fire move

[nocturne holly]

Dillon would clear amulet work on slaking?

[next stump]

if you’re running alongside weezing it’s kinda pointless IMO

[nocturne holly]

oh yea

lmaoo

[nocturne holly]

Other than av what would work?

[next stump]

life orb, maybe expert belt?

[nocturne holly]

hmm lum berry?

[next stump]

not a lot of choices

lum isn’t bad

but there isn’t a ton of wisp in the format, but it’s nice for matchups where there is

[nocturne holly]

ima try av on it and not include hands

[molten oasis]

https://pokepast.es/bac68968b01ee44c id like to add some kind of speed control to these 4

[nocturne holly]

Anyone have a specs flutter build?

[nocturne holly]

Icy wind mane

Torn

[molten oasis]

That isn’t torn

[nocturne holly]

Moon

[molten oasis]

Moon stacks fighting weaknesses

[willow vault]

I’m thinking about using Entei and Landorus-T because sacred fire has a 50% burn rate so if a physical attacker uses fire Tera they don’t like seeing Landorus-T

[mighty stump]

Meanwhile, Baxcalibur

[willow vault]

Yeah 😔

[molten oasis]

What about Bax?

[willow vault]

Thermal exchange

[molten oasis]

Ah

[willow vault]

Gets an attack boost when hit by fire moves + it beats Lando-T with ice moves

[tired sage]

oh will entei be back for dlc 2?

[molten oasis]

We believe so

[mighty stump]

Illumise

kek

[molten oasis]

Yiu for real rn?

[mighty stump]

Salamence if you want

If you want TW

[molten oasis]

Oh, double intim tho

[mighty stump]

Otherwise you can look for things that use like TWave or Icy Winds

[molten oasis]

Thundy?

Or cress maybe

[mighty stump]

Sure but does not work into Dark Types if Thundy

[molten oasis]

Oh true

Hmm

I need a fighting resist, really hate that torn happens work here

[tired sage]

wait ninetales is illegal in reg d-?

[molten oasis]

I need a fighting resist, really hate that torn happens work here

Bleh

[tired sage]

oh wait-
reg d i’m an idiot

[molten oasis]

@mighty stump you think cress could work?

[mighty stump]

Drago just add Torn

Cress is like

egh

[bold geode]

Lmao
You know he won't

[mighty stump]

Like T-Wave but is eh

Hands goes crazy for it

Like I like Cress if you have somethjng next to it that Hands doesn’t like

Its like getting sidelined and im eh

[keen karma]

Isnt cress good on weezing balance

I dont see why not since it just loses ground immunity

[nocturne holly]

anyone have a specs flutter build?

[thick geyser]

Whats the difference between dread plate amd dark glasses

[karmic temple]

You need arceus in your game to unlock dread plate

[next stump]

like I said earlier lol, there is no difference for competitive play

[nocturne holly]

what benchmarks should i hit for eving slaking dillon?

[mighty stump]

Its base 100 isn’t it

Id wanna be able to outspeed Adamant Urshifu at the very least or sth

[nocturne holly]

you think max atk is worth?

[mighty stump]

Yolo

[nocturne holly]

lol

-calc 88*1.5

[gentle crag]

Result: 132.000000

[molten oasis]

You know I won’t lol

I probably will cuz I’m too lazy to actually find a good option

That isn’t fucking torn

[mighty stump]

Illumise

[nocturne holly]

Slaking @ Assault Vest
Ability: Truant
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 20 SpD / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature

• Body Slam
• Sucker Punch
• High Horsepower
• Drain Punch

[molten oasis]

You’re serious about this now? Alr

[mighty stump]

Play Rough go wild though

against Hands

Tera Fairy

[nocturne holly]

hmmm

[nocturne holly]

play rough over hh?

[molten oasis]

Where’s whims when you need her

[nocturne holly]

why not torn

[mighty stump]

Doesn’t like Torn

[molten oasis]

Literally second most despised things on my list

I gave up btw cigar torn is here for now

[mighty stump]

Oof

No CB Flareon

rip

[molten oasis]

real lol

If you want to know the list of my most hated comp mons, it goes flutter then torn then amoonguss

Yes I hate flutter that much

[nocturne holly]

why dont you like torn and flutter

legit #1 trait

[molten oasis]

Flutter is so fucking boring to use

Like, wow you clicked Tera fsiry moonblast how interesting

Like I click it am I’m not like, awesome I’m just like, ok

also thing has given me lots of trouble in the past

[molten oasis]

Meow was #1 in reg a shush

[nocturne holly]

you can downplay every move tho

[molten oasis]

Also technically the. #1 Mon rn is shifu

[nocturne holly]

how did that team go btw

I said trait

[molten oasis]

With meow? It was fun not anything crazily

[nocturne holly]

like characteristic

[molten oasis]

Oh

Wait how tf does that work?

Wdym by #1 trait?

Like im probably being dumb

[nocturne holly]

like your #1 characteristic is that you don’t like torn and flutter

[molten oasis]

Yes

I’ll suggest them but I tend to avoid using them

https://tenor.com/view/xqc-slam-gif-23917579

oh great flutter works as a 6th on my team

[nocturne holly]

my thoughts exactly

[molten oasis]

Bleh

[nocturne holly]

https://pokepast.es/a3581b4f5d685b16 alr this is what i have
anyone have a specs flutter set? or a booster spe moon set??

[karmic temple]

I’d say swap body slam for Tera blast then that way you still get 2 stabs

[nocturne holly]

what

then i wouldnt need play rough

[karmic temple]

Exactly

Less damage but 100% accuracy

Then you can put hh back on

[nocturne holly]

what if i tera and i need normal stab

[dapper crag]

don't have 4 moves already ?

body slam para chance is useful too

[karmic temple]

Normal stab for what

Well nvm that was a dumb question

[molten oasis]

Similar to dragon stab normal stab isn’t resisted by much

And strong neutrals are always great

[nocturne holly]

hh is actually really useful for steel

hh over sucker or dp?

[molten oasis]

You want normal damage for stab

[karmic temple]

You also have drain punch for steel

[nocturne holly]

Oh yeah

[molten oasis]

Id do body slam/facade, play rough, drain punch, and ig sucker

[dapper crag]

Normal

Does not hit

Ghost

Hits for 0.5x

Rock, Steel

Hits for 1x

Bug, Dark, Dragon, Electric, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Flying, Grass, Ground, Ice, Normal, Poison, Psychic, Water

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[molten oasis]

You do facade in the event you get burned

[nocturne holly]

I was thinking of facade

idk how much I’m getting burned

[molten oasis]

It can work for the unlucky para or poison too

Kinda has similar reasons of use that lash out has

Kinda funny running something like gambit, then getting a speed drop from torn or something, then having +1 140 (150?) bp move that would Ohko like, everything

[dapper crag]

Move: Lash Out

Power doubles if the user had a stat stage lowered this turn.

Type

Dark

Category

Physical

Power

75

Accuracy

100

PP (max)

5 (8)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Makes contact.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[molten oasis]

150 lol

[nocturne holly]

yea but the damage reduction is noticeable

[molten oasis]

Works great on something like gambit

[molten oasis]

Facades damage wouldn’t be

Facade just goes back to whatever the base is

[nocturne holly]

10 bp kinda is

no vs body slam
70vs80

[dapper crag]

Move: Facade

Power doubles if the user is burned, paralyzed, or poisoned. The physical damage halving effect from the user's burn is ignored.

Type

Normal

Category

Physical

Power

70

Accuracy

100

PP (max)

20 (32)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Makes contact.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[molten oasis]

Ok, that’s fair but also, have fun losing cuz of a burn LOL

(I’m kidding slam is perfectly fine)

Facade is an option if you feel like you need it

[karmic temple]

Those heatwaves and matcha gotchas be burning !!

[molten oasis]

Wisp isn’t super common so that’s totally fair

[molten oasis]

Fr

[nocturne holly]

but like I think that 10 bp is more important

I’d rather lose to a burn then losing cuz I just missed out on the ko

[molten oasis]

You’re 252+ right?

What ko are you missing out on a 160 base attack Mon?

Don’t say hands that doesn’t count

[nocturne holly]

that’s also true

lol yea

lemme run some flutter calcs

wanna see if I can ohko it

[molten oasis]

A FLUTTERMANE?

[nocturne holly]

yea ig facade ain’t bad

[molten oasis]

Dude flutter already gets one shot by wood hammer from rilla

[nocturne holly]

mhm

[molten oasis]

I doubt mane takes a play rough

Or facade post Tera

[nocturne holly]

I wanna see how much i take with av

[molten oasis]

Oh

[dapper crag]

the standard bulk flutter can survive body slam from max adamant slaking, it's a roll that favors them. non bulk it is good for the trashcan

random battles are so fun

[bold geode]

Just don't tera

[dapper crag]

wdym ?

[bold geode]

Normal moves don't hit Ghost lmao

[dapper crag]

and ? I was answering drago

[bold geode]

Oh that bullshit

Yeah no Mane frail as shit so

[dapper crag]

but it does likely survive on standard bulk threshold

[bold geode]

Show the calc

[dapper crag]

?

the roll favors mane surviving

[bold geode]

Well yeah that's what I wanna see

[bold geode]

37.5% OHKO chance is still edgy though

That's 3/8

[dapper crag]

that is the minimal amount to check one attack, bulky flutter can be way higher since it aims for icicle shard from pao

so it likely survives

I use this to calc, very good tool https://nerd-of-now.github.io/NCP-VGC-Damage-Calculator/

[bold geode]

That's the standard calculator lol

[bold geode]

Also no the hell it does not lmao
68/116 is for Jolly Ice Spinner
76/140 is for Jolly Icicle Crash
68/228 is Adamant Crash
And I forget what exactly is Adamant Spinner

[dapper crag]

yeah minimal amount to check one attack as I said

you said 68/116 for jolly spinner

[bold geode]

You said the wrong attack though lmao

[dapper crag]

no I said way higher for icicle shrd

read again

[bold geode]

Or actually I was saying the part that "it aims for ice Shard"
Ice Shard is weaker

[dapper crag]

Move: Ice Shard

No additional effect.

Type

Ice

Category

Physical

Power

40

Accuracy

100

PP (max)

30 (48)

Priority

1

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Does not make contact.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

I said icicle shard

but you should know that higher bulk is not for weaker bp move

[bold geode]

Do you mean Icicle Crash?

[tired sage]

icicle shard isn’t a move-?

[dapper crag]

I mean the higher bp move

Move: Icicle Crash

Has a 30% chance to make the target flinch.

Type

Ice

Category

Physical

Power

85

Accuracy

90

PP (max)

10 (16)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Does not make contact.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

why would you need higher bulk for weaker move ?!?!

[bold geode]

This one?

[dapper crag]

Move: Hold Hands

No competitive use. Fails if there is no ally adjacent to the user.

Type

Normal

Category

Status

Power

0

Accuracy

—

PP (max)

40 (64)

Move Flags

​

Protect

Bypasses Protect-like moves.

Authentic

Bypasses substitute.

Contact

Does not make contact.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[cyan smelt]

So with bravado Sun if they lead flutter do I lead lillikoal?

[tired sage]

emmie what-

[chrome knot]

what

i like that move

[bold geode]

No point is I thought you were saying that the bulk in that aims for the ice shard, which it didn't
You didn't know the move name and it caused confusion

[dapper crag]

i know move name, tired of workday happens

[tired sage]

eh-?

[dapper crag]

i never said lower bulk this being said

[chrome knot]

[dapper crag]

i calced for 68/116 which is to survive one attack from pao

[bold geode]

Yeah and that's where the confusion came from
Cuz you saying icicle shard made me think you meant Ice Shard, the weaker move
I was correcting what that bulk was for, which is Spinner

[dapper crag]

no bulk is fine

it survives ice spinner my calc uses the right amount

[bold geode]

Which now that spread is actually not as relevant since more Pao run Adamant now

[dapper crag]

Move: Spotlight

Until the end of the turn, all single-target attacks from opponents of the target are redirected to the target. Such attacks are redirected to the target before they can be reflected by Magic Coat or the Magic Bounce Ability, or drawn in by the Lightning Rod or Storm Drain Abilities. Fails if it is not a Double Battle or Battle Royal.

Type

Normal

Category

Status

Power

0

Accuracy

—

PP (max)

15 (24)

Priority

3

Move Flags

​

Contact

Does not make contact.

Reflectable

Affected by Magic Coat and Magic Bounce.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

flutter mane spreads are not one thing and only

i just used this as a benchmark for slaking

[tired sage]

that move doesn’t exist anymore does it…

[dapper crag]

to show that bulky flutter likely survives body slam

[bold geode]

Right
I was correcting a mistake that was actually a misunderstanding lol
Take it easy

[dapper crag]

bulk was right

68/116 is the 1st benchmark for bulky flutter

[bold geode]

Have you been reading lmao

[dapper crag]

Move: Pound

No additional effect.

Type

Normal

Category

Physical

Power

40

Accuracy

100

PP (max)

35 (56)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Makes contact.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[bold geode]

I said this whole time I thought you meant Icicle Shard even though you didn't

Ice Shard my bad

[dapper crag]

you make the same mistake as me

see, no big deal, i was right on my calc

[bold geode]

Yeah cuz now you got me saying it lmao

[chrome knot]

me with ur mom

[bold geode]

Damn it

[chrome knot]

[dapper crag]

fighting on word meaning is not being constructive much when you know the bulk benchmark yourself

[tired sage]

[dapper crag]

flutter likely lives if bulky end of the line

[bold geode]

I know the benchmark
It was a misunderstanding how many times I gotta say it

[nocturne holly]

zamn that sucks

so i can’t ohko even with stab
I won’t be able to ohko w/o stab

[bold geode]

I mean do calcs for Slaking living Mane
Probably can work around it

[nocturne holly]

yeah

Was hoping sucker would ohko

[mighty stump]

I had a Flutter live HH Miracle Seed Glide from 252+ Boom

Turns out, I got unlucky on the roll

[bold geode]

That had to be insanely bulky

[dapper crag]

run heavy slam just like iron hands does

[mighty stump]

Flutter is deceptively bulky

[nocturne holly]

eh

[mighty stump]

Due to the lower base numbers, any sort of investment leads to greater % change

[nocturne holly]

imo don’t think it’s worth

[ember linden]

You can work with 55 55 unfortunately

[dapper crag]

it is on hands

[nocturne holly]

well actually
I don’t think I have anything that can outspeed and ohko flutter

Except pon with tw
I miss scarfshifu

[bold geode]

How heavy is Slaking and Hands?

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 289: Slaking

Type

Normal

Abilities

Truant

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

150/160/100/95/65/100

Total

670

Weight (Low Kick BP)

130.5kg (100 BP)

Height

2m

Introduced

Generation 3

Pre-evolution

Vigoroth

Egg groups

Field

Gender Ratio

M: 50%, F: 50%

Color

Brown

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

Pokémon No. 992: Iron Hands

Types

Fighting/Electric

Abilities

Quark Drive

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

154/140/108/50/68/50

Total

570

Weight (Low Kick BP)

380.7kg (120 BP)

Height

1.8m

Introduced

Generation 9

Egg groups

Undiscovered

Gender Ratio

N/A: 100%

Color

Gray

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[mighty stump]

What even is the rest of this Slaking team

[bold geode]

WHY IS HANDS SO HEAVY

[nocturne holly]

https://pokepast.es/a3581b4f5d685b16 I don’t have all the spreads yet

[ember linden]

It’s a fat ass chunk of metal dude

[bold geode]

Just see how much Heavy Slam does to Mane with Slaking

[molten oasis]

He just is

[dapper crag]

heavy slam will be 120 bp vs flutter from slaking

always OHKO

weight divisive is what matters for heavy slam

[bold geode]

Bug Tubby baby

[mighty stump]

Pretty sure Slaking gets Iron Head or something if you’re that concerned about Flutter but realistically you’re going to be able to chip it

[nocturne holly]

mhm

[nocturne holly]

Do you notice anything else glaring bout the team?

[dapper crag]

Slaking's moveset:

Physical Moves

Aerial Ace, Body Press, Body Slam, Brick Break, Bulldoze, Chip Away, Counter, Covet, Crush Claw, Cut, Dig, Double-Edge, Drain Punch, Dynamic Punch, Earthquake, Facade, False Swipe, Feint Attack, Fire Punch, Flail, Fling, Focus Punch, Frustration, Fury Cutter, Fury Swipes, Giga Impact, Gunk Shot, Hammer Arm, Headbutt, Heavy Slam, High Horsepower, Ice Punch, Knock Off, Lash Out, Low Kick, Low Sweep, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Metal Claw, Natural Gift, Night Slash, Outrage, Play Rough, Poison Jab, Pounce, Power-Up Punch, Punishment, Pursuit, Retaliate, Return, Reversal, Rock Slide, Rock Smash, Rock Tomb, Scratch, Secret Power, Seed Bomb, Seismic Toss, Shadow Claw, Slash, Smack Down, Stomping Tantrum, Strength, Sucker Punch, Take Down, Thief, Throat Chop, Thunder Punch, Trailblaze, Wild Charge, X-Scissor, Zen Headbutt

Special Moves

Blizzard, Chilling Water, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Focus Blast, Hidden Power, Hyper Beam, Hyper Voice, Ice Beam, Icy Wind, Incinerate, Mud Shot, Mud-Slap, Round, Shadow Ball, Shock Wave, Snore, Solar Beam, Tera Blast, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Uproar, Water Pulse

Status Moves

After You, Amnesia, Attract, Block, Bulk Up, Captivate, Confide, Curse, Double Team, Encore, Endure, Focus Energy, Helping Hand, Hone Claws, Metronome, Mimic, Protect, Quash, Rain Dance, Rest, Roar, Scary Face, Slack Off, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Sunny Day, Swagger, Taunt, Thunder Wave, Tickle, Toxic, Work Up, Yawn

Notes

A move displayed with Bold text benefits from Same-Type Attack Bonus when used by Slaking.

SableyeBot version 4.24.4

[dapper crag]

heavy slam

it kills flutter all time

[bold geode]

No Iron Head but it DOES get Poison Jab

[dapper crag]

you do more damage with higher bp neutral xD

[bold geode]

Also now the Flutter spread you're going off of honestly is a lower bulk spread so you can't confidently say whether or not it'll 100% OHKO

[cyan smelt]

Why does the bot have moves that don't exist anymore like secret power and frustration

[bold geode]

As I said, that spread is a tiny bit outdated

[nocturne holly]

that’s only good post fairy Tera

[bold geode]

Damn I forget Ghost resists Poison

That's like the one I always forget

[next stump]

holy GTA 6

[dull ibex]

Eh

[thick geyser]

Whats the difference between dread plate and dark glasses

[molten oasis]

Did the trailer come out?

[mighty stump]

Cause people forget to filter with vgc:true

[mighty stump]

Literally nothing

[bold geode]

@mighty stump if you're still up, I see there's now a spread for Mane in the calculator saying 212HP/132Def
Know what it for

[molten oasis]

They do the same thing but arceus changes type with dread plate

[mighty stump]

This question had been answered previously

[molten oasis]

That is the only difference

And for vgc it literally doesn’t matter as arceus has never been legal (I think)

[mighty stump]

Check Slam at -1 or soemthjng idk

[bold geode]

For Hands?

[mighty stump]

Oh wait

I remember

Its for Urshifu

[bold geode]

Oh

[mighty stump]

So Scarfshifu doesnt kill you with Surging

its 1/16

[bold geode]

Tera or no

[mighty stump]

Adamant No Tera

[bold geode]

Oh ok that makes sense

[molten oasis]

Bro

[next stump]

yes

[molten oasis]

GTA 6 looks crazy

[thick geyser]

What stat spread do you do for amunguss

[molten oasis]

Like, damn

They really upped the graphics

[bold geode]

@nocturne holly nvm Heavy Slam is good enough lol

[solid ravine]

3 most common stat spreads for amoongus (taken from pikalytics)
Bold 244/0/188/0/76/0 6.976%
Bold 252/0/156/0/100/0 5.422%
Bold 244/0/236/0/28/0 4.894%

[molten oasis]

I like the second one personally, that is one I use

[nocturne holly]

What calculator is this?

[bold geode]

The nerd GitHub one

[dapper crag]

no

[bold geode]

Knowledgeable Faer

[gentle crag]

__yotam__ (ID 507669322148216874)

[Message](#competitive_discussion message) in #competitive_discussion
SV calc:

https://nerd-of-now.github.io/NCP-VGC-Damage-Calculator/

Command triggered by woodtofu. Message from · Dec 1, 2022, 4:05 PM

[nocturne holly]

oh I don’t use that one
Send

[bold geode]

The one Tofu pinned

[dapper crag]

if you up from the minimal bulk, it's never living body slam tera fairy

only odds to live is at 68/116 if you implement the standard bulk benchmarks

[bold geode]

Yeah
I'm saying the bulk you have is not as relevant
It's outdated

[nocturne holly]

ok so what moves on slaking

[dapper crag]

not outdated

[mighty stump]

I think Monke means for the actual intended matchup that calc is outdated

[dapper crag]

minimal bulk used as benchmrks

[cyan smelt]

High horsepower, body slam

[mighty stump]

Which it is

Since its meant for Ice Spinner Chien Pao

[solid ravine]

this is big brain time

[mighty stump]

Almost all Paos have made the switch to Crash

[bold geode]

Big Brain Faer

[mighty stump]

Which has upped the standard for the minimal expected bulk on Flutters

[dapper crag]

you guys lose focus, I calc for minimal benchmark and it likely lives, up the bulk and it lives 100%

[mighty stump]

I’m just clarifying?