lore-discussion-spoilers

[hushed steeple]

I saw it spite more than one person

[haughty talon]

It's alive!

[harsh pecan]

Maybe…

[pastel brook]

How many bots would a skybot bot if a skybot could bot bots?

[late wasp]

1. Golden Wasteland Broken Temple
2. ?
3. Forest Temple

[boreal nebula]

I have a feeling that thre might be moderators orchestrating the bot answer sometime 😅

[frigid tinsel]

maybe we should apply the turing test to skybot

[haughty talon]

Send a terminator to shut this down please

[hushed steeple]

It knows when it gets spicy comments to its not that deep. So it makes sure to start doing it twice

[pastel brook]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/593565781166391316/832872714967842826/Untitled90_20210416150354.png

[harsh pecan]

Bruh

[frigid tinsel]

my time has come

[pastel brook]

Do you think bots can think?

[hushed steeple]

What did I just say?

[boreal nebula]

[late wasp]

[haughty talon]

Forest, abyss, forest

[boreal nebula]

Be more specific cause some might be intersting in locating them ;-)

[frigid tinsel]

too tired to explain computing, algorithms, and AI, but short answer is they kinda can but they’re limited and usually programmed much less flexible than living sentient beings

[haughty talon]

I wasn't being specific exactly for that matter... So people can go explore and find it themselves 😅

[boreal nebula]

Well, atleast, tell the area, in which they need to search

Or they willsearch under any forest rock and tree trunks

[haughty talon]

End of forest, depth of abyss, end of forest

Hope in future seasons we get to open many of those closed doors that can't be open now...

[frigid tinsel]

mods send thatskybot to test if lorechat is mature enough to get the forbidden words

[boreal nebula]

Broken Temple does have these things on The sides of the door but it ddoesn't have closed door with that sigil

[late wasp]

Wasteland temple makes me confused on where the golden press would be
since it's supposed to be on the ceiling, but there is no ceiling

[boreal nebula]

While taking a look at the abyss hugedoor sigil I noticed how different objects loads in different times in this mural

Resource prism we collect might be collocated in bigger rhombus shaped machines, maybe the golden containers with which they are made or refined/charged

Plus under each creatures a slim plate appears, which suggest me the idea of a cart / stretcher for caring about mantas (if not some completely unseen technology plate that is able to get energy from creatures with phenomen of induction

Then I wonder if we ever see the elevator in the central shaft working

[boreal nebula]

I domt think that concept art is up to date!

Many things dont add up anymore with that and today's temple (for example Forest Temple)

[frigid tinsel]

could consider that the ceiling caved in due to age or deliberate destruction

[late wasp]

although it does not show on the floor, sadly. which is what makes it confusing

[boreal nebula]

Temple is different now

[rustic heron]

Do you mean the end temple housing the statue? That has a ceiling.

[late wasp]

this place

It's the same as this place (Forest Temple)

[nimble ingot]

1. the forest temple
2. the abyss underwater gate
3. forest temple puzzle doors (there is a mechanism inside it. you just need to find a way to break in)

[valid dagger]

That's the big door that opens after the elder cutscene, the large underwater door in abyss that keeps ||certain creatures inside||, and the old puzzle door in the forest temple

[haughty talon]

Yes but with more pipes it seems... Whys GW laden with tooo many pipes?

[frigid tinsel]

perhaps the Wasteland was designated the main place for power diamond manufacturing thus produced a hefty amount of pollution to dump at the conveniently nearby ocean

[boreal nebula]

The "mold"is not at the top, there there is an altar now

Therea re no minor darplants stairs (like in GW) and no waterbased dark plants/(idk know its name... thos floating leaves frogs sit upon) (the was one on bottom right corner X and many more on Forest river)

There are no more this many ramps for rolling refined "products" and if there are (like those I marked with YES) then there is no pool to collect them

Plus the thing that was a press, now get lit with many things I call embedded golden containers (maybe because they work as magnets in a giant turbine/dynamo) hence I tbink that big golden thing is now a dynamo (with 2 odd simultaneous rotations)

[nimble ingot]

4/5 for the profile pic ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ✦
5/5 for the name ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆

[late wasp]

earlier I noticed that the flock of birds in Eden use the pipes, if you check where they are going.
I theorized that they created the pipes to exploit the migrating creatures, like artificial streams

[valid dagger]

That would make sense. Obviously wasteland is full of toxic waste now since it used to be a huge factory. The waters are polluted from it. While forest being a smaller one hasn't gotten polluted as much, except the acid rain

[boreal nebula]

I am startimg to think each temple/factory is a sort of Idro Electric Power Station which additionally pumps water towards Eden (where there are lots of giant pipes converging)

[haughty talon]

If you see the current version in forest temple. It is almost like it was altered later... The central structure still has shafts inside that lead to the window like thing that we see outside

May be it had all these structures as in concept art. As time went they moved the manufacturing else where to a bigger area (may be GW) and repurposed this forest one as an Altar

[boreal nebula]

Yes, like the Forest Temple Puzzle Room , almost intact as when there was locates the Thinking Spirit during Light Awaits

[boreal nebula]

It could also be like that, tho I hope in a less industrial dystopia for the wonderful Sky Kingdom😅

BTW I wonder. Do this carvings/markings on bells and "dynamo" have a function ? There are some golden containers in Treasure Reef without any of them does it mean they are "unrefined" ?

[boreal nebula]

Although in Abyss we see one tiny grating like those 3 as a tiny door, openable... but still no ramps and pools to collect products rolling out of those...

Does it mean these tiny gratings are just for maintance use only?

I don't remember where I read these are symbols of ground / mountains , like many botton triangles in Sky buildings represent how the Ancestors where found to the land while diamonds represent stars an d the divine (maybe Megabird )

[late wasp]

i will go and try find teb

[boreal nebula]

Find me? But I'm going to sleep 😴

[keen shore]

Beginning to wonder if darkstone itself has no special properties beyond containing and focusing light. As in, the light actually powers everything, the darkstone is just a convenient container.
Does this make any sense at all or am I repeating something obvious everyone realized but me

[formal skiff]

That makes sense
Like light storage/transportation
You can “charge” it and then use the light it now contains to power something later

[rigid mural]

batteries

[formal skiff]

Exactly (the rechargeable kind)

[late wasp]

Sky Kids function the same as Dark Stone then
Dark Stone can even fly as shown by the Vault Elder or the Eden Crystal

[rigid mural]

wait, isnt that kind of pattern p common in sky

[late wasp]

I'm fairly sure it shows at the doors of the Forest Temple what it means

[rigid mural]

these were made by ancestors, their disposition could be to reference that crystal

[late wasp]

the animation shows the trees being felled, and then going into 2 of the slots
then the yellow crystals inside the jars go down and fill the other 2 slots

then it flips and shows a power crystal glowing
like a recipe

[rigid mural]

yeah but what im saying is that the crystal being put in a diamond shape here ? could be a reference to the 4 elemental powers and the possibility their fusion made the eden crystal

[late wasp]

Something I recently realized is how in the Vault they were also doing Earth magic!
The spirit growing trees!

[rigid mural]

Anyway, what I mean is that it's possible the elemental powers could have been used to make the eden crystal, which at first could have been a good source of power ! but maybe the ancestors were careless and it got to a critical point before exploding

[boreal nebula]

I dont know about this... it seems a nice hypothesis

It's nice how the 4 elements you represent are also corresponding to the 4 (wide) Realms I think they could represent (meanwhile Isle amd Vault a smaller Realms / realms if not just counted as less than a district in the Ancient Kingdom)

[late wasp]

teb at almost 3 am hyped on lore lol!

[boreal nebula]

If anyone is interested I got pinged with a video of how the Abyss Ship was during beta

Video showcase by Emma: #beta-screenshots-videos message

[boreal nebula]

I was not here
*Vanishes*

[tulip aspen]

YOOOOOOOOOOOO

LETA GOOOOOOOOOOO

[keen shore]

I’m going to be honest, I don’t think that symbol means a recipe. I would believe it a bit more if it appeared in just Forest where darkstone is produced, but it appears all over the realms, mostly in areas that use darkstone but do not produce it (meaning they’d have no need for putting the recipe everywhere). Plus, I still find it very hard to believe that wood somehow went into the creation of darkstone unless it’s somehow lit on fire to charge it (as far as I can tell there’s no furnaces or anything similar where darkstone is used)

it seems more likely that the diamonds that move up here are either placed in spots that look good on the door but don’t really mean anything (Boring Answer) or they represent forest’s two main exports: charged darkstone and wood :3c

Somehow I forgot to put this in the original, but obviously the diamond pattern probably means something different in other realms; this is just Forest putting its own spin on it

[late wasp]

I can't speak for the first point, but to the second point, arguing merely for the forest temple gate, we do see them cutting down trees for one. but I also do not thing those things were used to "produce dark stone", since we see them mining the thing.

but what the forest temple do show is putting blue thing (from tree) and orange thing (likely butterfly / energy) into "something".

my belief is that "something" is darkstone, they are charging darkstone with orange energy from the jars and "blue" (whatever it represents) extracted from the trees.

not gonna say it's blue wax, but it is a potential theory. I prefer to just look at it surface level and leave it open. but just recapitulating, the dark stone would be the lozenge where the other diamonds are being put in
⠀⠀🔸
🔹⠀⠀🔹
⠀⠀🔸

now that I've said this, it means the symbol might represent dark stone

[pastel brook]

Hey @nimble ingot, do you think people like me?

[sharp lichen]

I am not Raider, but I can say with absolute certainly that you're the least liked member of lorechat. And unfortunately, I consider you a member of lorechat due to your constant interruptions technically counting as messages.

[keen shore]

My personal idea is that the something those things are put into is the temple, which they have to go through in order to be exported to the other realms.

The big sticking point for me is that there is no precedent for blue energy coming from trees; blue wax requires water and has nothing to do with wood, and if they’re small variations of the lights, neither water or wind have anything to do with trees either. If they needed “blue energy” it would probably be somehow harvested from the water instead. Not to mention the big spirit memory with cutting down trees (apologetic lumberjack) doesn’t include blue energy at all when the tree is cut down.

[formal skiff]

I, too, am not Raider. However, I can certainly say that your contributions to lorechat include none of the following:
-lore speculations
-lore questions
-lore answers
-support
-evidence/screenshots
-excitement/interest in lore
I’m torn on whether they provide humor or not. That might just depend on the person

[keen shore]

One neat counter argument to this is that the blue energy requires life in some capacity to make, and that’s why the water is harvested from trees rather than the river. I don’t think this is the case, because what you’re describing seems a lot like blue wax, which is pretty easy to get - you just dunk normal wax in water. But if you interpret the “blue energy” as more like the blue/cyan lights, which who even knows how they were created, it’s easier to imagine this idea is the case

[formal skiff]

Hi I have a quick question about game mechanics if that’s allowed here: I thought I was going to be able to get the adventure pass but then wasn’t, so if I’ve bought up a seasonal spirit’s tree but was unable to get the adventure pass items, will this benefit me when it eventually comes back as a ts? As in, will it show that I’ve already bought some nodes? Or was it a waste of time?

[compact shale]

I think that's better for #questions-and-help

[formal skiff]

Ok, ty!

[late wasp]

good question, now I want to know too, I will repost your question there and see if someone responds

[frigid tinsel]

If you want the items now, buy the adventure pass. If you want the items 1-2 years later, wait til they come as TS

[keen shore]

If darkstone really is just a convenient light storage container, wonder if recharging it is just a matter of holding it next to a manta to absorb its light

[compact shale]

Maybe, and it would sting less too, but I guess it was too slow for the ancestor

it could be like the difference between shearing a sheep for wool and killing a sheep for wool
The first is slower but more sustainable long-term
The second is faster but less sustainable long-term

yeah I think there's a better analogy than this but you know what I mean

[late wasp]

I wasn't paying much attention to the color, but it is certainly interesting how they never develop the need for cutting trees beyond we seeing cut trees, that spirit and the temple door.

Interesting to note how the dark plants have a blue-ish coloration too. Maybe dark goo? I am not sure myself, but I do think they were mixing Light with something else to turn Dark Stones into Power Crystals.

[late wasp]

We do that with our candles, right? But just proximity didn't help much...
But some things do power up with just the sky kid approaching

before I forget, Sneezing Geographer implies ancestors breath 🌬️ and could imply diseases exist 🦠

[frigid tinsel]

or allergies. Sneezing is an immune response. Books be dusty

[late wasp]

also that! I could be down to an in-universe explanation that it's just something they do for social reasons, but the breathing part is undeniable

[frigid tinsel]

Maybe that’s why ancestors wore masks

[late wasp]

What do you mean?

[frigid tinsel]

Preventing the transmission of respiratory diseases but masks covering the whole face for ✨aesthetic✨

[late wasp]

if coal miners had it rough, imagine having darkstone dust inside your lungs draining your lifeforce.
darkstone miners NEED masks. I will inspect if they are using them now lol

[tulip aspen]

why did you steal my sax tho

[noble lance]

Well ancestors were once alive right? Because we are reliving their memories, and quite a few showcase other spirits passing away in them. So I wouldn't be surprised if there is diseases and their own physical weakness considering every living species have them.

[late wasp]

TGC's flow takes place inside an Ancestor's body

[compact shale]

djfudsgudghsdnfdnsgdsufjdf

[hushed steeple]

Happy amoeba was part of flow this entire time :0

[harsh pecan]

W h a t

[keen shore]

This was actually one of the headcanon ideas I briefly considered for why ancestors wear masks in the first place, but I feel like I’d need more evidence to actually believe it.

(Also, I’m kind of hoping for an explanation that revolves less around needing it for survival explanations and more so that it’s important to their culture, because that’s a lot cooler, but if that’s not true I will sadly accept an alternate explanation)

[frigid tinsel]

It could’ve started out that way and evolved to have more cultural significance later

[keen shore]

That’s what I was thinking, but I feel like it would be much more interesting for it to be a cultural thing that developed on its own, and considering we have no evidence for it either way, that’s what I’m going for right now

[late wasp]

I think it's just a cultural thing. Ancestors were heavy in body modification, using spells that changed even their height. i think they just used what was most stylish and represented their inner self.

"today I'm feeling Tall, so let me use a spell to be tall." etc
masks allows for this type of customization / expression too

[keen shore]

Im still up in the air about whether ancestors could use height changing spells or if it’s just a game mechanic for us, because if they can and their anatomy is somewhat human, that would HURT. I’m also not sure how that would work, especially if they had access to shrinking spells too…

[late wasp]

it shows them using it in forgotten ark iirc.
after the fallen stars were given the the Vault Scholars, they developed spells and gave them to the commoners.
who then used spells

[frigid tinsel]

Ancestors taking pain meds before drinking a resize potions

[keen shore]

It shows them using spells for fireworks in murals, but not height spells. Although imagining it happening is VERY funny

[late wasp]

the 3rd one from the left. I see that as a short ancestor becoming tall.
the tall figure is cut like that in game too, like it is being phased in.

(considering it is magic, I don't think it's painful)

[opal heart]

Are the valley elders… siblings?

[keen shore]

Since there’s no arrow denoting change between them, it looks more like someone just standing next to the person. Especially because all the other spells except that involve light in some way, and the spells themselves are made out of different color lights, it makes sense that ancestor spells would jsut deal with controlling light and flame

[compact shale]

Yeah, same.

If they could, it probably feels like skele-gro.

[keen shore]

Also, that’s a guide for how spells work on skykids, not ancestors… did you think I didn’t know what spells were or something??

[compact shale]

I think Sophos is looking at the ark mural, not the infographic...

[late wasp]

nah lol! I wanted to draw a connection, but slowmode stopped me heh
I see them using

Firework, Bonfire spell, and one of the Height spells

aka: "Lesser Magic"

[spark cairn]

U telling me Prophecy Guide is tall cause they chug tall spells all day everyday?

[compact shale]

so the spells are canon... interesting

[late wasp]

That's something I didn't think about, but now that you mention it, it would explain the giant ancestors.

[keen shore]

It could be an illusionary/non permanent “huge” spell (I am saying this because I think if prophecy guide had a way out of being that tall, they would take it, considering they live in a cave)

[compact shale]

I think all the prophets took tall spells at one point, that's probably how they painted the murals up so high

Imagine an ancestor wanting to become tall so they ingest a spell and it's just "AEUUUUUGHERHUREURUGUUURUGHHHHUGHHH" for 23 hours as their body lenghtens

[sharp lichen]

i'd like to imagine that they crafted the resize potions using materials found entirely inside the cave

[late wasp]

ACTUALLY LORE CHAT WE DID IT
WE CRACKED THE LORE
FINALLY

[keen shore]

Fun spell fact. Resize spells don’t actually do anything relating to your size, they just knock you out. Then you wake up with stilts on your feet

[late wasp]

Spells!!!! It was Spells!!!
That's how the ancestors used the giant weapons and shields!!! Temporary size alteration spells.
Warriors would use them before jumping into battle!

That's it!!
It makes the most sense.

[keen shore]

Definitely possible for spears, but. I hate to say this.
The swords are STILL too long (unless the giant spell made them absolutely MASSIVE)

[compact shale]

Headcanon:

Temporary size alteration is painless and simply creates a taller/shorter construct/exoskeleton of light

Permanent size alteration is painful and requires bed rest while it takes effect and lengthens your body

[compact shale]

i like how it chisels your chin too

[late wasp]

and then we only see warriors and soldiers after the effect wore off, with the exception of the elder who is naturally huge

[keen shore]

#lore-discussion-spoilers message here’s my comparison that shows the unreasonable size of these swords. Not including the handle, they are 2x the height of the average ancestor, and this is ignoring the fact that they’re made entirely of stone which makes them even more unwieldy and heavy

[sharp lichen]

performance-enhancing spells

[late wasp]

Berserkers

[keen shore]

The huge spell idea is really interesting though wonder why I didn’t think of it before

[late wasp]

since we are on the topic of magic, interesting how the Forgotten Ark mural accounts for the other lights, because the Scholars made more than one Orb/Light of each type.

It's also very interesting how this mural tells an alternate story to the Cave of Prophecy almost, because here we see that the Scholars also entrusted some of the Commoners with High Magic.

[keen shore]

Interestingly enough, those symbols don’t line up with the prophecy symbols. Also I’m still trying to figure out who the person with the massive headpiece is — wait are those ancestors dribbling the lights like basketballs

[late wasp]

This is probably how the Enchanting Crew got their Higher Magic.

[frigid tinsel]

It could be that those elemental lights became so common or just a given overtime that ancestors viewed their usage as less sacred

[late wasp]

In older gameplays, these symbols are used next to each Light color.
but they were later updated to be their current state. That's why I included both symbols in my color map thing.

[spark cairn]

The top image has a spirit with a bowl hat, wasn't that something one of the lightseekers wore?

[late wasp]

I'm not sure, but I do think they are lightseekers, they come from the forest with umbrellas

[keen shore]

The thing is, we still don’t know if the enchantment and prophecy lights are the same ones. We know they’re connected “in a way” but nothing beyond that, so they could be entirely different /:(

Side note someone mentioned some ancestors (like the indifferent alchemist) having minor elemental powers a while ago. While this is still noncanon maybe they somehow absorbed these lights to use them?? (This makes no sense I am sorry)

[late wasp]

||it was I heh||
I think spirits do have some power over elemental magic, beyond the lesser entertainment spells.
the alchemist certainly had the blue magic, but it wasn't strong enough. (as seen during the cutscene of the relived memory inside the cave)

[compact shale]

I don't know if they had it "inside" them like we do the end of each cutscene just shows the ancestors throwing the light in the right way to restore the ark or something like that

[late wasp]

Ancestor Magic is just a topic I enjoy lol
today I realized how growing trees was one of the magic developed in the Vault, alongside

[harsh pecan]

WAIT REALLY?

[rustic heron]

Steroid Spell use is against the rules of war.

But in all seriousness, this is a really cool premise. If only we could get confirmation that Ancestors could do magic... nudge nudge wink wink

[sly lake]

Don't we already have confirmation? 2 vault spirits can levitate themselves and levitate items with their brain. I wish I could do that.

I don't think its a common skill at least though, and that is why the sale and transportation of spells (shown in ark murals) was likely a thriving trade of the past. Look how big the ark is! Must have been a lot of spells stored there before it went down.

[rustic heron]

This is going to sound insane, but I don't consider telekinesis and other psychic powers "magic". It feels more grounded in something logical.

[sly lake]

I suppose difference of opinion? I'm curious to think why you feel that way though, since it's not possible to do in our reality.

[compact shale]

Telekinesis could be a purple light spell. edit: just a headcanon

[rustic heron]

While that is tempting, the spirit cutscene that shows this emote doesn't indicate any spell usage. They kinda just start performing telekinesis.

[sly lake]

I imagine with some dedicated training, telekinesis is achievable. But we only really see scholars doing so, and the elders. Forest elder, Vault Elder, Wasteland elder also use telekinesis in their cutscenes.

[sly lake]

That's correct. I think spells are a way to bring 'magic' to the masses. But trained ancestors could do the magic without the aid of spells.

[late wasp]

Alchemist just conjures the blue magic after focusing in their memory reliving.
but I would say Floating, Telekinesis are MIND (purple) magic.

[rustic heron]

Wait, doesn't this kinda invalidate any notion of mindspace theory too? You can just say they do magic~, and everything works out.

[late wasp]

What do you mean?

[sly lake]

I would agree! Maybe each realm, if we imagine them a region and it's citizens in the kingdom of Sky, is specialized in one kind of magic. Vault spirits have some who train to excel in purple mind magic. Prairie spirits could maybe train to learn how to use green (life energy? plant growth?) magic. But if an ancestor was unskilled, they could purchase a spell that could achieve the same effect as someone doing the spell naturally.

I am not sure what the mindspace theory or what it has to do with ancestors doing magic, apologies. Could you explain?

[rustic heron]

Magic explains everything. You can just wave your hands and say all the things that happen in Sky are because of magic.

[late wasp]

I considered this thought once, as I pondered over the Cackling Cannoneer emote that has them summoning flames while laughing. Fire magic being specially useful for someone operating canons.

However, after looking at some other emote colors, I'm not sure if people are more innate to any specific type of magic. I think it's only a matter of training and using them.

[sly lake]

We clearly can see Ark Spirits-or other mages similar to that group, getting raw 'light' from lightseeker job spirits. They then seem to refine it into different types of magic: mind, life, wind, etcetera. Which they then could sell these spells to the common citizen, we see those citizens utilizing these spells to create fireworks and even summon objects like a bonfire.

[late wasp]

Magic still follows some internal logic though, I'm not entirely sure how to define it, but there are Hard and Soft Magic iirc.
Either way, it seems there are some very specific rules for magic we were discussing, like what spells that can be used and the elements.

[sly lake]

For cannoneer-do they actually summon flames in the memory cutscene? Or is it just us, the skykid, who can summon flames? Genuine question, it's been some time since I did Cannoneers memory.

[late wasp]

I would have to check if the flame appear when they teach us in the constellation, but maybe it's just us.

[rustic heron]

They are called blessings in-game. Perhaps spells and the like are unique gifts spirits can grant to Sky kids only?

[sly lake]

Yes, I was about to say hard magic and soft magic systems! It feels like Sky has a blend of both, which is why it may feel a little confusing. There is no deniability that the world of Sky is filled with some sort of magic-the creatures fly, we are reborn in an endless loop, our candle opens doors, etcetera. Pretty standard soft magic system stuff. But we also have some hard magic system in the different types of light.

For what it's worth, I believe "light" is the raw form of magic. And just like light can be split into many colors through a prism, Sky's light magic can be refined and diversified into different 'types'.

[late wasp]

They are contained within darkstone crystals, so idk lol!

[sly lake]

I think it should appear in the constellation, but I imagine that would be a byproduct of just game design. So that the player knows what effect they would be getting with the level 2 and 4 emote.

[rustic heron]

WAIT. BLESSINGS ARE RED. WHAT ELSE IS DARKSTONE AND ALSO RED AND GLOWING???

[late wasp]

my love for your wisdom ❤️

[half shadow]

I feel like Ancestors were capable of certain kinds of magic - we can assume their ability to manipulate and conjure Light is a form of magic - but Skykids are much more adept at it

[sly lake]

https://www.campfirewriting.com/learn/how-to-choose-between-a-hard-or-soft-magic-system#:~:text=A hard magic system will,set of boundaries to it.&text=A soft magic system doesn,often unaware of the mechanics Here's some information on hard and soft magic systems.

[late wasp]

be a scholar
spends 50 years learning to levitate things with great effort
flying kid shows up and learns the skill under 5 seconds
honks for friends while levitating a crystal to open a door

[sly lake]

I agree with this. I think Elders could likely do multiple types of magic, and the king. And now, we can too! Pretty interesting, if you think about it.

[rustic heron]

We're mentally syncing here. It's the Eden crystal.

The Eden Crystal was a giant recharge blessing. It was giving ancestors the power of flight.

[compact shale]

I have a headcanon based on emote light effects that we can temporarily change the color of light and use its effects

[half shadow]

ohh I love that!

[late wasp]

go on a little more
I'm thinking the floating mountain bits too
the floating kingdom!

[sly lake]

If ancestors could fly, would the Flight spirits have been trapped (and then died) on the separate islands? They need our help to repair wind paths because we have the ability to fly.

I do think though that when the eden crystal broke, it generates an anti-gravity effect on some objects and buildings near it.

[rustic heron]

It's even better. This has lasting ramifications on the morality of the King. He must have been tightly linked to the light, as only the light allows for blessings.

Give the lucky player a prize, ladies and gentlemen. Darkstone leads to blessings, containing spells. They were more than batteries.

Darkstone was the cornerstone (puns hyper intended) of all Ancestor technology. It was a magical conduit, storing not just the light, but also magical information to direct it into all sorts of applications.

[sly lake]

I do wonder what the eden crystal was planning to be used for. What did they hope to achieve, with that massive store of stolen light?

[late wasp]

on a technicality, they can
but I think lapis means something specific

[rustic heron]

This is the precipice. The Eden Crystal was the blessing of flight. Which, if the King was split, means that...

You guessed it. Sky kids gained flight from the Eden crystal.

Just for the record, my ego is inflating faster than the universe is expanding right now.

[late wasp]

I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN, indeed they seem to be more than batteries now that I consider the spell crystals.

tom zhao's concept art even confirms the shape is pretty much: darkstone!

[rustic heron]

We did it. WE ACTUALLY CRACKED THE LORE.

You know what's even more poetic? The Ancestors did gain the power of flight. Their spiritual forms are innately just light, and they can fly alongside us.

The King's plan worked in the worst possible way. Mission failed successfully.

[keen shore]

Wait, but isn’t darkstone only red if it gets corrupted? It’s blue normally… for the red crystals in blessings to also be darkstone they’d have to be the corrupted form that sucks out our light and causes us constant pain

I get what you’re going for though, am reading this with mental popcorn

[compact shale]

Oh king, you magnificent idiot...

Hello, Jam! Lapis has come to some epiphanies about spells.

[lofty void]

Hello lore chat!
Now, goodbye, lore chat!

[tulip aspen]

wha

okay, so i know my rhetoric with the Light gets tiring, but im pretty sure any and all beings of Light that CAN use magic use it via the Light

---Skykids and scholars can use psychic powers
---Skykids have spells and potions that affect their bodies
---ancestors have spells and potions that affect their environment

[compact shale]

Take a look at this! It seems to imply that ancestors used some of the same spells as we did. (firework, bonfire, height alteration)

[tulip aspen]

yee, something do with (keep in mind my references are based off media and not actual cultures or religions/practices) mind powers, exerting you will over reality

we'll keep our differences in our definitions yet again lolol, but it's definitely a magical power to me rather than a magical spell, at least to assert a difference between what the scholars do and what the enchantment crew and skykids do (environmental and personal spells)

[tulip aspen]

huh

[tulip aspen]

im not so sure that's exactly what it's implying, that mural is really unclear and kinda poorly worked

the one you think is height alteration isn't even finished, it looks like the visual may have glitched or something

can i see that full picture pls?

[compact shale]

ask Starscourged Sophos, it's their photo

[keen shore]

Hold on. I have a picture of the mural I’ll get it

[tulip aspen]

oh right just send me the mural doc salem my bad lol

bruh mural doc needs to be pinned
MODS PLS

[compact shale]

HFSFNDNFFSGH OH

[keen shore]

Here it is. Sorry for the angle, it was really hard getting all the mural in one picture, but I’m pretty sure it’s still clear what each thing is

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-yA8OdJ2NzwNc8c15sQB3UALYn3psT3c6mWgIV64jFM/edit

I’m not sure, they seemed to phase in and out of existence at different angles

[tulip aspen]

does the height alteration mural have an arrow trying to get the point across xD

that's an arrow isnt it

[compact shale]

"this spell cuts you up into a bunch of pieces"

it looks like an arrow but it's not drawn in

[tulip aspen]

oh so thats not an actual arrow?

[keen shore]

Hold on let me go into game, get a better angle and check. Haven’t even noticed that arrow until now. (If it’s not supposed to be there this is the most confusing shadow coincidence ever)

[tulip aspen]

fr
you really dont have to salem, you work so hard smh but thank you!

fascinating, if this mural disproves ancestors only using environmental spells that's really good to know

[keen shore]

Yeah I have no clue where that arrow came from

Filtered for easy viewing

We may have to ask about this one. The fact that there’s no line connecting the spell and its outcome makes it harder to tell if this is meant to be representing a size spell or one that turned out to be a dud with another person standing next to it

[compact shale]

spell that cuts someone up into pieces /hj

edit: I don't think we can ask Ash about this, their works are from Prophecy-beyond iirc

[half shadow]

I think they might just be holding a light container up rather than using it for any spell

[compact shale]

I don't think we've seen anything shaped like that before. What even is that?

[rigid mural]

Sorry I'm crying at this guy's proportions
Regular ancestor below for comparison. I think I'm behind the size spell squad.

[keen shore]

Prophecy guide cameo in mural?!

[rigid mural]

NAUR

Concept resh using the king mecha suit to hide he really is still close to chibi size despite using 54 size spells

[keen shore]

Size spell does seem to make the most sense, especially with aforementioned oversized weapons, but I’m hesitant to accept it as fact because… how does size spell changing work on biological beings? Does that mean ancestors worked like we did? It seems like making yourself larger or smaller permanently would be horrendously painful if not outright fatal with the effects on your organs if they had fully human anatomy

[rigid mural]

Hulk

[keen shore]

Also not sure if this provides any new information but all the non seasonal spirits are almost identical in height

[compact shale]

'tis magic. Headcanon is that it feels like skele-gro and ancestors undergoing permanent size alteration need bed rest.

[rigid mural]

Almost ??? Barring hidenseek pioneer, Candlemaker is very visibly way smaller than the tallest spirits, such as stealthy survivor. There's some significant differences even if it's not fire prophet levels of extreme imo

[keen shore]

Just… imagine if god took your body, imported you into mspaint, clicked the change proportions option, grabbed the top square, and elongated you. This is what I’m picturing

[rigid mural]

God did that to me irl but I got shrinked.

Thus he lives in fear of my revenge.
Anyway goodnight.

[white junco]

short king

[tulip aspen]

yee, just cos the guy is so short, it has to be

[rustic heron]

It's fantastic, really. Blessings are contained with darkstone crystals. The blessings we receive are red and glowing in-game. What else has those same exact properties? The Eden Crystal.

What is the one action most greatly associated with the Eden Crystal? Flight. The Eden Crystal was designed as the ultimate blessing for all Ancestor kind: the blessing of flight.

What happened? This failed (somehow), and the King was no more. If Sky kids are remnants of the King, then what could have happened? The Sky kids gained the power of flight from the Eden Crystal. The Ancestors also gained this power, but it was at the expense of their lives: they were turned into spirits that can fly.

The King lived a tragic life trying to bring his people back to the light by blessing them all with the power of flight, and failed magnificently.

This also cements the voice as that of the King. Who else would know what this blessing would do? He knew that what happened at Eden destroyed him in all but spirit, residing in each of his descendants. We are compelled to absorb the remnants of light in the world because we were made from the disaster of the blessing of flight.

It follows directly from the game. All the evidence was there. The King, the blessings, Eden. All of it.

It also explains how advanced Ancestor Tech was. Darkstone wasn't just batteries. It was the hallmark of all technological progress. An object that can turn light into any number of magical spells. Memory recording, levitation, Acting as a lock. You name it, a darkstone blessing could do it.

We even see metal girders in Eden. Enormous pipes transporting waste, factories producing these literal miracles.

No wonder the King was obsessed: This was the key to everything, the key to restoring the infinite light.

[keen shore]

I’m still skeptical about the blessings being darkstone, considering only corrupted darkstone glows red… I need an explanation for that

[rustic heron]

Simple. It's not corrupted. The spell of flight requires sucking out the light from a thing to turn it into a spirit.

[keen shore]

So, what about the shards of corrupted darkstone growing around the rest of Eden that aren’t part of the main diamond? How do those work?

[rustic heron]

Same spell. It's killing you to turn you into a spirit and, thus, giving you flight.

[keen shore]

But those haven’t been refined yet; they’re just sprouting from the ground. Why would they have the same spell attached? Wouldn’t they be unable to hold a spell due to their shape?

[rustic heron]

They're not sprouting from the ground. They're splinters of the giant Crystal, launched far and wide. We constantly see Eden spurting out these crystals in PNR. In the initial explosion, they just got launched that far from the source.

[keen shore]

Also - considering we can already fly - why does the flight spell hurt us in the first place?

• they are sprouting from the ground, many of them are solidly attached to it (may just be from passage of time or just how darkstone works though)

[rustic heron]

The flight spell turns you into a spirit to give you flight. It kills you to make you fly. It's terribly effective.

[hushed steeple]

Those look like clocks, similar to the timer we have on spells. I find this to be more solidified after seeing the Guy with the circle line being smaller.

[rustic heron]

And it gets better. You know how Sky kids are theorized to be made of some material? Maybe the clay we're made of is part darkstone. Thus, not only are we descendants of the King, we are the mature form of the spell.

We can give light to other sky kids. We can give spirits and sky kids the blessing of flight without killing them.

We are a blessing. Literally and figuratively.

[keen shore]

I’m not trying to be rude here, it’s a really interesting idea, I just don’t like accepting things as facts when there’s parts of them I can’t understand

[rustic heron]

No, please. Ask away. It only helps.

Science is not in the answer, but the question. Find the holes. Poke at this until we've solidified it into an immovable cornerstone of the lore.

I haven't been this giddy since I ate a whole lemon meringue pie.

[keen shore]

The idea that the king wouldn’t know a flight spell comes with a condition of murder is… odd to me. Unless it was sold to them by a REALLY shady salesman (which is almost definitely not the case) it would be pretty obvious what it does. Wouldn’t a mechanism of that size be tested before anything happened? Wouldn’t anyone question how it works before they put it in order?

& also if the red rocks are all the flight spell, then why are all the spells we get red and glowing?

[compact shale]

Who would the king test a flight spell on? A random unwitting ancestor? A crab? Most creatures can already fly

[jolly anchor]

I'm jus reading this chat cause its so inch resting acting like I'm caught up w all the lore

[jolly anchor]

Birds?
Mantas?🤔 🤔 🤔

[compact shale]

why would you test a flight spell on a creature that can already fly

[jolly anchor]

True-

[nimble ingot]

hmmm... Maybe?
People might like you more if you did not delete message without telling them why.

Other than that, your timing needs a little adjusting. I saw your message just now.

[rustic heron]

It likely was the first test. An experiemnt of the grandest order. I doubt the King knew it would be as disastrous as it was. Flight is akin to divinity, as it acts as the sole gateway to the Megabird. It likely was the most ambitious project of their time.

It's kinda like how the first computers were the size of an entire room. The initial spell was likely overcomplicated and in its very first iteration.

As for the red rocks: The ones closes to Eden are the ones from the flight spell. Of course, other blessings, much smaller and mundane, would not cause this issue. And too, the red rocks slowly drain your light.

If you can imagine, the Eden Crystal was the equivalent of a nuke, then.

[keen shore]

&& also wouldn’t red darkstone be much more common throughout the realms if this was the case? Currently it’s only confined to Eden, if it helped with levitation like the anti gravity spell it’d be ALL over vault, not to mention other places utilizing floating boats like village of dreams and treasure reef; if it helped light things like the glow and bonfire spells it’d be a massively efficient light that would replace braziers and torches (which are scattered all across the kingdom). If red darkstone contains spells, wouldn’t the forgotten ark be filled with it?

& the king would either test it on themselves or whatever consenting ancestors helped them build it, it seems more ethical to test it and maybe kill one person over wiping out an entire kingdom

Putting a giant glowing red rock that you don’t know the function of DIRECTLY on top of the most massive light beam in the world, one that leads directly to the heavens and would give it massive amounts of energy, and which also sits at the center of the kingdom where everyone would feel the disaster, doesn’t sound like a very smart experiment honestly

[compact shale]

the king isn't exactly the sharpest stone in the stack...

[keen shore]

They ruled an entire kingdom for centuries while being a kid for a good chunk of it and beat the trials singlehandedly. There’s no way they’re not smart

[compact shale]

they're messed up that's for sure

[nimble ingot]

Ooh. that channel looks interesting.
Thanks for sharing the link, it is grealty appreciated.

The old Quest giver boat was, and always will be, better then the one that ended up in live.

[jolly anchor]

Agreed

[nimble ingot]

Yes.
Baudshaw said it better than me.
I take back what I said.

[compact shale]

Press F to pay respects to BETA Abyss ship and Commodore's sword

[rustic heron]

This is likely more along the lines of the nature of darkstone spells. Darkstone is darkstone, but it can be manipulated to absorb light and redirect it as a spell to have different effects. All Darkstone spells are red, likley because some spells require much more energy (or some other reason; that's another point of research!).

And Forgotten Ark is full of spells. Why do you think they had the stand set up to sell them? They likely peddled spells.

& the king would either test it on themselves or whatever consenting ancestors helped them build it, it seems more ethical to test it and maybe kill one person over wiping out an entire kingdom

Indeed he did. But perhaps in his ambition, he ignored the signs until it was too late. The reaction grew out of control. Think Chernobyl. They put all the precautions they could in place, but it wasn't enough.

Remember, this is the greatest blessing ever conceived by Ancestor-kind. Blinded by their hubris and the propective advancements, they pressed forward with abandon.

Putting a giant glowing red rock that you don’t know the function of DIRECTLY on top of the most massive light beam in the world, one that leads directly to the heavens and would give it massive amounts of energy, and which also sits at the center of the kingdom where everyone would feel the disaster, doesn’t sound like a very smart experiment honestly

Hindsight is 20/20. If you could potentially unite the infinite light for your entire people, saving them and restoring the order of the universe broken by the Elders, wouldn't you?

They ruled an entire kingdom for centuries while being a kid for a good chunk of it and beat the trials singlehandedly. There’s no way they’re not smart

You're right. But compassion blinds us from the truth. It's like Prometheus; he gave humanity fire, but it ended up causing all the woes they experienced in the process.

The Eden Crystal is the Pandora's box of Sky. Death was brought to all, but with lies the smallest fragment of hope, which spread throughout the world: The sky kids.

[keen shore]

Yeah, that’s exactly what I meant. Forgotten Ark is full of spells, so why isn’t there more red darkstone there to hold them? Why isn’t there more red darkstone levitation spell holders in vault and treasure reef (for the minecarts) and village of dreams (for the boats)? Why isn’t there more red darkstone light spell holders scattered throughout the kingdom, especially in Wasteland? Why isn’t there red darkstone krill and crab repellant spell holders in Wasteland?

It doesn’t matter, though. Just bought a couple of blessings in game to see for sure and there’s no red glow to be found. All we have is the shape to go off of in the spirit buying tree; when we buy them, we just lift our candles to them, they lift theirs back, and we suddenly have the spell after an explosion of light. I can record it if you want, although I don’t have much candles left and would prefer to conserve them.

[rustic heron]

https://youtu.be/vDZ3N5Ov8mg?t=1734

In that clip, at that particular time, you can see the blessing model. It's red.

[keen shore]

At what time? You didn’t add one, sorry :(

& the blessing model was updated recently, right? If this was such an important part of the lore, wouldn’t it be in sky from the beginning?

[rustic heron]

It took until Prophecy to even begin telling the King's ascent to the throne. It doesn't surprise me this happened so late.

[keen shore]

It does me, if this is true, because the red color is a really simple thing to add. It’s not like prophecy where you need to plan an entire season or many murals - or both - to tell the story correctly. It’s just a shift of hue in the model. I really doubt that would take so long to update

[west niche]

Spells are red, the particles are red, the effects are red, the icon is kinda red

[rustic heron]

I think ascended candles are also related to this, but I have yet to solidify this connection because I ran out of energy.

[keen shore]

Those are orange particles representing flame/the light :3x and like I said, the model was updated recently. I doubt it would’ve taken so long to change the color if this model’s red hue was this important to the lore, honestly

Also, afaik, ascended candles are more orange than red

[compact shale]

they are?!

[keen shore]

As far as I know. Let me buy another thing so I can check for sure

[rustic heron]

No, don't. Save your candles and use Youtube instead.

Speaking of, you might have been able to get most of your murals from Youtube as well. Though, I suppose you had reasons for not doing this.

[compact shale]

Salem's quite devoted, eh?

[keen shore]

Yep, it’s the same orange hue for buying emotes. Video’s loading now

[jolly anchor]

Whats a mural? ;w;

[keen shore]

Murals are those light paintings you find scattered across the realms. Need to sleep soon, just need confirmation that others have seen the video

[jolly anchor]

Ohh I see ty!

[rustic heron]

I think it's worth mentioning that whatever caused Eden to go out of control probably caused it to glow more brightly/differently as well. The darker red of the Eden blessing may be due to its nature of sucking out light as well.

[jolly anchor]

Its drinking the light like a drink
Slurrrp
🥤

[compact shale]

___
🥤

[nimble ingot]

🔨

[covert oar]

I came back to see if anyone replied but didnt find any im actually curious about this "why dont they open their eyes without a mask" ? Can anyone respond?

[nimble ingot]

They/you are probably refering to the maskless cosmetic.

The maskless look lets skykids close their eyes, so the face would look darkened. If they were open, then you would have a dark face with 2 glowing dots for eyes, that blink.

There are other masks that reveals part of the skykid's face, and their eyes are open.

Ergo, maskless is cosmetic, it is assumed the skykid would open them when moving around.
Similar to them having fingers, yet in the game, they have mitten hand on their models.

[rustic heron]

Isn't that the point of the Abyss masks?

[nimble ingot]

The spirtis even demonstrate this.
The maskless spirit is one of the few ones to have their eyes closed, last I checked.

I checked again and was wrong.
Fhe maskless spirit was Proud Victor and his eyes are open and lit.

I thought it was one of the vault spirits for some reason.

[covert oar]

Another thing is The winged lights also seems to have their eyes closed

[rain pond]

colours in Sky - according to Tom Zhao

Dusk: Red (Eden/Krill/Eden Crystals) as a "warped version of flame" - Why are AC the same colour as warped flame???

[nimble ingot]

Same reason.
You either get glowing dots that stare out of the dark.
Or two darkened eyeballs that look much more dead than just eyes closed in the game. (on skykids. the spirits pull it off. Like Lapis showed)

It is up to your interpretation if the eyes would glow or not in that state.

[covert oar]

I see, tyvm for info yall

[compact jungle]

Bro this answers everything I need

Thank you

[compact shale]

DEAR GOODNESS

NO WONDER WE KEEP THEM CLOSED

[tulip aspen]

the voice?
you mean in the intro?

[tulip aspen]

i cant see the connection at all

[rustic heron]

Darkstone holds blessings.

[tulip aspen]

it's definitely a cool concept, I personally can't see the devs intending this though

[frigid tinsel]

Lapis be ascending

[rustic heron]

It's so simple though. Ancestors can't fly. Spirits can. The King can't fly. Sky kids can.

Sky kids as a blessing? Simple, but effective. We literally give away our light to the trapped sky kids to do the same thing the Eden Crystal did: Flight.

And I love it even more because it's nowhere in the concepts. Why would the devs post concept art when they want people to guess the lore? The concept art was a red herring, while this was in front of our noses the entire time.

[compact shale]

❔ ❔

[rustic heron]

And even with the old model for blessings, it still works. The Zhou concepts show the notion of crystals being jagged representative of the King. The only other place we see jagged crystals? Eden.

In all ways, this works. I'm almost sure the change to the blessings was done to cement the relationship.

It answers all the questions. Why can sky kids fly? Why can we give away light? Why do we look like darkstone when unlit? Why are we filled with light?

[rain pond]

i just got tasered so hard by my laptop that i met megabird and the king at the same time

and the only thing they told me was "sky text lore"

[rustic heron]

You know what else? It also answers the Vault illusion question. The central Diamond in the elevator is a spell, which is charged by the memories of the user. This same mental energy, for lack of a better phrase, is used for telekinesis AND for the memory cubes.

Like you said, these powers are a form of magic, and the central diamond in the elevator is the spell that creates the illusion that we see in vault.

The Guardian stones? Also blessings. The spell connects to an elder, and creates an illusion for the summoner and the Elder to commune in.

Sky kids can do this innately because we are also a blessing, and so require nothing more than our own forms to initiate the spell.

[rain pond]

i asked them for lore and they gave me three meaningless words

[rustic heron]

Mindspaces are just a mind spell, an incredibly complex one.

It also cements that Ancestors must have light, and therefore must have undergone reincarnation.

[tulip aspen]

many of the concepts only affirm a lot of the stuff that I had assumed.
because of that confirmation, along with the confirmation that I get by other people having shared the same guests that I had to what's going on, I personally could trust my bias for many more situations.
we visually see the Light.
based off those visuals we see harmony, connection, something far greater than us
and it is Light
--via the intro, we know that ancestors came from that Light
--We know that sky kids did too
because whenever each ascend to the light, the narrative explicitly tells us they are "going home".

with that, it should be fairly obvious even why sky kids have light, I'd say

[rustic heron]

But I have in-game proof. There is no bias here. I don't need it; I have actual evidence, straight from the game. No concept art. No extrapolations of a tapestry of logic and theories.

Just pure game evidence. This theory comes straight from the game.

Occam's razor, Jam.

[odd pagoda]

Does anyone have like a breakdown or analysis of the Nintendo Switch trailer? (feel free to ping if you do)

[tulip aspen]

is this another death to the author thing or whatever it was called

[rustic heron]

Occam's razor is the notion that, given two solutions to a problem, the simpler of the two is likely the truer solution.

I don't have docs referencing other docs yet still referencing docs of ideas and theories, and yet my theory does all that yours does, in a paragraph. It's beautiful .

[tulip aspen]

is circumventing the Light as a theme a simpler solution?

[rustic heron]

I also don't need to circumvent it. Blessings are based on light. That's why they're called "blessings": it's a gift of light.

Maybe it's the lack of sleep, but this is poetic. It's all there, in simple terms. Laid out for us since the beginning.

[tulip aspen]

maybe i cant understand it due to MY lack of sleep

personally it feels like too much of a plot twist
spells dont seem to have much of a connection to anything particular yet, they just exist

also remember they're only called blessings when a spirit gives them to you so that means it's a blessing from the spirit in general

[rustic heron]

They're also called spells. You said yourself: magic exists in Sky. It comes from light. Darkstone absorbs light. Darkstone has multiple uses.

Darkstone holds spells, light configured to do something.

[haughty talon]

So far in any spirit memories do we see them using spells? We can make things up but it could be that a game mechanics (spells) was built in just for the game experience and not for lore. This is why it is better to have sky devs build a narrative and properly tell it to players rather than vague stuff that leads us to borderline between what's lore, what's a game building constraint etc

I mean I can't include the Nintendo area into the lore right? But since it does exists and for some reason linked to the GW social area.. Are we at liberty to link zelda story with sky now? (we do have a linkesque hair available in game)

Going by occams razor.the simplest explanation I have is many things are done in the game as a way to weave gameplay elements with story. Some of them are just gameplay elements. And shouldn't be mixed with core story...

[tulip aspen]

i see spells as canon, but moreso as a utility ig

we do see spirits use spells in some murals in enchantment to show off their skill and power, and we see a spell used in the nintendo cinematic trailer.
however, enchantment isn't really connected to diamond production, they were moreso trying to escape with the kingdom's light spells to keep them safe, so i dont see it mattering

[rustic heron]

Telekinesis in Vault, the powering of floating boats, the summonging of balls of light in Forgotten Ark, the summoning of fire by Cannoneer, the memory cubes, the elevator in vault.

Crabs being turned to life from diamonds (blessings), even Assembly bubble blowing can be seen as a spell.

The clearing of the Wind Paths by the spirits.

The gathering of the elements in Prophecy.

[tulip aspen]

so you're basically taking the mindspace theory and turning it into spells

isnt occams razor a terraria boss or something

[compact shale]

There's something about Sky that makes it especially hard to distinguish gameplay mechanics from story. I don't know what it is and I don't know if that's supposed to be a good thing or a bad thing, or if it's intentional.

@rustic heron when you complete the 5th Flight quest, it says that the chimes guide birds to make the paths (needs clarification)

[haughty talon]

None of them seem like the same animation as the one the sky kids does when we use a spell. That's where I'm coming from... All of the examples quoted seemed like innate ability to do magic rather than "spells"

[rustic heron]

Forgotten Ark does the same animation when using the light balls to progress the Forgotten ark area to the next stage.

[haughty talon]

They don't use blessings spells like we do thought. The QG just controls the balls of light like telekinesis in vault

[tulip aspen]

all great points all great points

round two, begin

[compact shale]

ROUND TWO?!

[haughty talon]

This instance? Again it is as if the character is using magic innately not using a spell(as in consuming something first) and then performing some magic.

[rustic heron]

It's manipulation of light. Our spells aren't that sophisticated.

Their spells literally changed an entire landscape, purifying it. They'll have to look different.

[tulip aspen]

they do use the Light inside the lamp, exerting it out

im assuming the lamp then empties

[rustic heron]

You're misunderstanding. A blessing is just a diamond that is filled with light that acts as a conduit for a spell.

In that example, the lamp is likely made of dark stone. The whole lamp + light is the spell, and it emanates light.

The floating lanterns in Vault are another example.

[tulip aspen]

.....the lamp looks like it's made of stone

the lanterns in vault have power diamonds in them

they don't just have light like this stone lamp does

[haughty talon]

Well you can start to claim anything is a spell of you go down that slippery slope of looking at everything through that lense..

[rustic heron]

Yes, many things in Sky are magical. It's not real, it's fantasy. (Sorry, this is a bit tongue-in-cheek).

[tulip aspen]

me when i started claiming almost everything happens due to the mindspace

what the heck is tongue in cheek

[haughty talon]

We have capes. Of course you don't need a Cape to fly. Superman doesn't need a Cape to fly it is just there for visual cues and eye candy. Of course there could be some lore in it. But we got to accept that not everything in game was created 💯 for lore. I believe spells have their place in sky lore but not to the point of linking them to dark stone and basing entire core theory on them being dark stone and hence any magic is via dark stone

[rustic heron]

I think mindspace theory is just a specific application of this overall spell theory.

[tulip aspen]

i think it's vice versa but yes kinda

[rustic heron]

A good game will incorporate as much of its gameplay mechanics into the lore to create a seamless suspension of disbelief.

[compact shale]

oh, will it?

[rustic heron]

Dark Souls does this. Most mechanics in the game are deeply tied to the lore and setting.

LoZ also does this. Twilight princess has fast travel tied to the powers of the Twili, which are established to teleport the corrupted Twili very early on in the game.

[haughty talon]

Doesn't mean all games do it and not a 💯 of everything in a game is usually lore based. I mean take TS for example... I assume appearance of TS suddenly doesn't mean the Canon is spirits of sky visit to sell items to collect candles all of a sudden!? It was a feature added to progress gameplay and not lore surely right?

[rustic heron]

Why not? Spirits gotta do something while we fix the world. Why not get candles to trade with other spirits and get cool cosmetics to sell back to the lonely kids in the world fixing a disaster they didn't make?

Spirits like us. They want us to have nice things.

[compact shale]

I think it's more of a gameplay thing, yeah. Headcanon: Once you take a spirit in Eden, you won't see them in Sky's kingdom anymore (in-universe)

[tulip aspen]

in general lapis, sometimes we have to agree to disagree

it sounds like an amazing idea in it's own right that the twist is that diamonds are created via spells, and the diamonds kill ancestors so they'll fly

but not everyone else will think the same, so if you ask for our opinions, we'll give our thoughts

as you said before, any great theory needs to be tested, and as my older quote also says, if my ideas cant take the heat and be under fire, then they need a bit more work and thats okay

if yours really does answer all of our questions for you, great!
next step is the harder part; convincing people

ive spent months working hard on that part lolol

tldr, expect that nobody thinks like you, and you'll never be surprised, it's how i get along lol

[haughty talon]

Spirits attain peace and join the mega bird of light or whatever and become one isn't that the purpose of tuning into spirit and ascending? Not to haunt sky indefinitely even after we have freed them and they visited orbit... Still come back to sell wares and make some money on the side 😁

[rustic heron]

Sophos and I came up with this theory. I'm super onboard for it. It's gonna be hard to reel in my enthusiasm for the next couple of days.

But yeah, I get your point.

[compact shale]

The guides either have something that they still need resolved that will take a long time, or they chose NOT to ascend for whatever reason.

[haughty talon]

Well all guides and spirits ascend at the end of a season. Thanking us for restoring whatever that kept them from ascending for so long...

[tulip aspen]

sorry fam, it was just my extremely awkward way of saying "no hard feelings" about all the inquisition

glad you're ready and excited to workshop and define it stronger, gl mate

[haughty talon]

If they still come back for more candles it just seems greedy of them. Ngl... 😅

[rustic heron]

The cycle is broken while the light is not united. They're hanging out in Orbit, helping us out in whatever way they can.

What's wrong with making a few candles on the side? They likely commission the other artisan spirits to help out using candles.

[compact shale]

Not all of them did IIRC. I remember Assembly guide's light didn't ascend. Whoops, sorry, Assembly Guide.

[rustic heron]

I love the questions. I've expanded this theory so much in just the last hour alone. It's just fuel on the lore bonfire.

[haughty talon]

Well. Why do they even need light fragments in the form of candles. They have all the light they need. They are friggin spirits that can unite with the mother of all light! It's not they need candles to buy stuff somewhere in spirit realm

[compact shale]

Headcanon: The spirits need our candles because they need them to make offerings to Megabird. The fact that they haven't ascended is a blasphemous act, so they must REPENT YOU FRICKERS

[rustic heron]

They can't yet. The light is not united yet. Finding the Elders is one part, but there's likley something still missing before reincarnation can be reinstated fully.

[haughty talon]

Well that sentence doesn't tell my why they need candles... Does someone ask for bags and bags of candles once the light is restored to enter the pearly gates of sky?

[rustic heron]

They just out there living there best afterlife. Trading candles is fun. That's it.

[haughty talon]

I say sometimes we should step back and realise what's game constraint (paper birds, triangle fishes) and what's gameplay vs what's real lore. Not confuse everything

[rustic heron]

Everything is lore until it isn't.

[compact shale]

I have oodles of oodles of headcanons that aren't very intellectually researched (only vaguely) but I sometimes share them because if it helps anyone else have an epiphany then good for them

[haughty talon]

I mean in sure ancestors of sky didn't have a Facebook login to track their progress in sky before they can reincarnate

[haughty talon]

True that. However far fetched it is best to discuss and as lapis commented earlier. It is to pick holes and see it the theory really sticks.

[rustic heron]

I mean, I don't think they called it Facebook...

[haughty talon]

And they didn't have daily tasks to do and do candle runs mindlessly all day. Definitely sky people had "lives" that was far more interesting than CR, daily tasks and seasonal candle collection. All these are elements of gameplay with some lore built into them

[compact shale]

*looks at Distraction Theory's gravestone with contempt

[haughty talon]

We just need to be ware of how much of lore we interpret from them.

[rustic heron]

Oh, they definitely had daily tasks. It's called an occupation and living your life. They probably went to their job, worked, got paid, went home, and sometimes had festivals with interesting candles.

This is all lore, by the way. Spirits lived lives and had celebrations and festivals, you know, like we do.

My guy really out here forgetting what living a life means.

[haughty talon]

Lore is spirit lived lives. It is not lore that spirits did candle runs to collect candles and the only way they went about their day was focused on candle collection

[compact shale]

*silently leaves chat

[rustic heron]

You mean working a job? They did that, and likely got paid somehow. Maybe in candles, maybe not.

[haughty talon]

I think you misunderstood. When I said they didn't have daily task I mean like how players are assigned task to get candles. Of course they would have tasks as in irl anyone has a job, a family a life.
A ancestor in sky didn't wake up everyday and find 4 tasks given from a staring statue to then turn in the tasks to get candles.

They possibly did "stuff" that needs to get done in sky for their lives. What I'm saying is players getting daily tasks in game is just gameplay and we can't say that because we have this so this is also lore.

[rustic heron]

We're chidlren. Child labor is illegal. My guy out here really suggesting kids need to work for their candles. SMH.

[haughty talon]

Well according to current gameplay we do need to work (as in collect candles to then spend)

[rustic heron]

Do you really need the umpteenth cape from <insert spirit name here>? No, you can rock a chad moth aesthetic.

[haughty talon]

Likewise you don't need a spell. All you need is the knowledge that vault elders gained to perform magic. Spells (as in red blessings that drop from sky) are in no way connected to lore as they are like costumes in game not relevant to core story

[harsh pecan]

I mean- everyone who can do labour legally is dead so its up to kids now ig

[rustic heron]

You're misunderstanding. When I mean "blessing", what I really mean is that darkstone technology, prevalent throughout the lore of Sky, has multitudinous usage. The red coloring of blessings indicates a more advanced usage, with the red glowing indicative of a "blessing". This is very prevalent in Eden, and the connection of Flight and death with the Eden crystal suggests that it was intended as an advanced usage of darkstone technology to provide a means to give the Ancestors the power of flight.

I don't mean they literally plopped out those specific crystals; what I meant was that darkstone technology, which is the same stuff the blessings are made of, is a conduit for spells, not just a battery that was theorized before.

Darkstone was used for all kinds of magic. The blessings we get are just an example of that. Boats, the Vault Elevator, the memory cubes, and many more indicate usage of darkstone technology beyond just powering stuff.

[haughty talon]

So red and blue crystals are now dark stone is it?

[rustic heron]

They always were. Darkstone glows blue when charged. The Eden crystal is made of darkstone, and glows red.

[haughty talon]

So charged = blue
Uncharged = red
What about those ones that glow yellow when lit with a candle and remain grey/no color when not lit?

Also on crystals giving blessings... We have masks in abyss season with embedded crystals in them. But we don't see the spirits do any form of magic/blessing usage (so far)

[rustic heron]

My brain's running on empty right now. I'll have to pick this up tomorrow. Hit me up then and we'll hash this out.

[haughty talon]

More questions :
Why a re the resource we collect in abyss not "glowing" red or blue

Why are unrefined crystals in abyss not glowing red if they are unrefined and uncharged?

If dark crystals that are uncharged draw life/light force - why are we seeing murals where people seemingly are handling them (fully expose with someone in the same boat as 10s of other "dark crystals" like any normal mineral/ rock?

[rustic heron]

You have red and dark switched.

[boreal nebula]

Looking at your interesting drawing again and it gave me a Lord of The Rings vibe.. || and bit of something else ||

 
One Element to the Daylight Fields, for its flourish lands,
One Element to the Rainy Forest, for chiming off precipitatons,
One Element to the Triumph City, for its floating buildings,
One Element to the Golden Land, for its tower defences

Together the Four ElementS created Harmony and Prosperity.
Only the King, Master of all Fours Elements,
could enchase the four into the One Diamond
But everything changed with the Eden craked/quacked.

Now I [Daleth, Isle Elder] call to you child,
Bring our spirits home (Litterally an S.O.S.)

Dang... Not quacked

I meant *Quake

[late wasp]

pictured: the King

[rustic heron]

Pictured: The King overdosing on darkstone

[harsh pecan]

Dang

[late wasp]

Sky Kid enters portal to the Past in Orbit to destroy the world that is Aku

[nimble ingot]

Just to entertain the idea a bit more, more so because I love the show.
If Aku would be like the Sky King. What would Jack represent?
1 - A skykid that grew up.
2 - An ancestor that got sent forward in time.
3 - Someone who was blessed by the Megabird and given the power of the Elders.

[boreal nebula]

@haughty talon @tulip aspen Since that guy had a beetle/scarab 🪲 mask I suspect those were tinie tiny fireflies or insects that were easily domesticated and controlled/guided instead of just some light, because IMHO it seems alive!

Since telekinesis seems possible for Ancestors which trained a bit under Scholars (where Lamed Vault Elder was the head master/mistress, maybe as representative of all Elders basic skill of telekinesis) that guy might be a lower practioner which already studied there (and knew the direction to return to the kingdom) or who maybe learned from some traveller/merchant

Another thing I like of that Switch trailer is that they brought back this kind of lanterns (4 usual diamond/round holes with additional 8 triangular holes on the ideal corner/vertexes of a cube) which I watched in some old Sky Light Awaits video of the Old Beta development!
They were similar to the pawns ♟️ lanterns we see for example in Forest now, but they should have been in place of the 4 squared ones we use to activate Vault Elevator

But they also worked as a tie-in as a preview of Season of The Little Prince , specifically the Giant Lamp of the Lamplighter

[boreal nebula]

Since we were talking about cartoons that's how I see King Statues / turrets might be rendere, with those edges representing the folds in His massive cloak (or maybe those fonds, once the cape is in open wings mode, seems more like the branches of Megabird rays)

[nimble ingot]

I love it!
I am Batman

---

I am King

[harsh pecan]

Woah

[boreal nebula]

I remember I come up with this idea after seen this fanart wish of a Jellyfish Cape
#wishlist-and-ideas-archived message

And I immediatly thought of that, but BIGGER, cause King should have the most majestic cape of all the Kingdom
||Or else He could have found and krilled Snowwhite whoever was disfigure His place as Fairest of Them All ||

[harsh pecan]

Resh = Evil Queen? 🤯

[haughty talon]

Yes they definitely seem like some insect of sort. Like how some spirits are able to herd butterlies or birds... May be some of them had the power to herd light insects.

[late wasp]

you do remember that we do that with butterflies, right? taught by an ancestor

[haughty talon]

Yeah, though... How is holding a butterfly opening a door? 🤔

[nimble ingot]

good point, it is the only door that uses butterflies. Though not the only one, there is one other door that relies on an emote (telekineses in vault)

[haughty talon]

There's summoning circle on top of 8 player door. But that's not lore I guess...

Speaking of 8 player door.. There's a pillar there that's the only one of its kind in entire game that I have seen. The pillar just before the portal that gets you to temple

[boreal nebula]

Idk I wonder how much canon that is, since Oreo is just an easteregg

[boreal nebula]

That pillar with gold cover is seen in some conceptarts too

[golden mica]

Guys, is it truth that they post on their social media that spirit of pleaful parent will come as a next Travel Spirit?

[formal skiff]

Nooooo I haven’t gotten that one yet because it’s practically a death sentence

[nimble ingot]

if you need help, I can help guide you if you like.

[rigid mural]

I WISH but no, the TS hints only start being dropped the monday of the week a TS is due.
||on one of their fancams, i think the commodore one, hiking grouch was briefly spotted in home; that with the bug calling earth prophet a sanctuary spirit leads me to believe hiking grouch will be next||

[formal skiff]

That would be great actually, tysm! I can’t rn though- maybe in like half an hour?

[nimble ingot]

Feel free to dm me and I'll get to work distracting the krill.

If I were to get hit, keep going.
I got enough wl to take the hits like a rodeo clown in a bull pit.

[hushed steeple]

im just very curious but would anyone care to explain or know a bit of what dis means

[nimble ingot]

That is a side view of the building's floors.
It tells of something the ancestors did to the light creatures.

Some theorise the mantas were experimented on. Other theorise on the mantas were used to power the diamonds. And some theorise the mantas could have been treated and made to grow bigger, or evolve into their greater variants up to an elder variant.

That is all I know about it in the lore chat.

[hushed steeple]

mantas thank you for answering my question! ill read more of this chat sky lore is so interesting

[sharp lichen]

Please do so, we'll be happy to include indoctrinate a new member into lorechat!

[frigid tinsel]

Got some good side profile pics of krill for those interested

Also, something I noticed about the platform in battlefield

Pardon my poor tracing, I’m not an illustrator in the slightest

[nimble ingot]

you brave soul, well done.

[nimble ingot]

4 diamonds (counting the one in the middle too)

[hushed steeple]

what does this mean

[nimble ingot]

A theory of how sky has some details that come in 4's
That and other groups of things in certain numbers.

[frigid tinsel]

Was also thing king’s face or crude geometric illustration of the Light, which could also be what the king’s face is trying to emulate

[tulip aspen]

:00000000

[half shadow]

I spent a while looking at this image in the Reef myself last night, thinking about my idea of the “chain of production” that went on.

I think it’s pretty clear to see that, with the size (or maybe wing amount?) of the Manta, more diamonds are able to be made. The two most complicated looking eight-winged manta are able to produce many more diamonds than the others. It looks like this facility was underneath the main large tower under the water. What I don’t think anybody’s brought up yet is the bottom chamber. To me, it looks like it has multiple viewing windows and maybe a cool glass floor to look outside. The creature that’s at the very bottom is what we’ve assumed to be the same wormlike creature that we see knocking down the Abyss Crew’s boat in the entry cave mural. Considering it’s the only creature that big, I think it makes sense to assume they’re the same.

However, looking again at the facility mural, am I the only one who thinks that the worm creature… kind of looks more like a many winged manta? And with the way the figures are all crowded around the bottom, possibly looking through the windows at the creature below them, maybe they thought they could capture and use it to produce an insane amount of power diamonds all at once? Maybe they tried taking its Light and inadvertently turned it into the more krill-like worm creature?

For comparisons sake, here’s the worm. While the facility mural’s creature could also be a much more simplified depiction of it, maybe the “ridges” that travel up its sides are what remain of its wings after it transformed?

[hushed steeple]

i didnt know they would use mantas to manifacture diamonds before reading this chat

[half shadow]

aaa sorry for using your post to write such a huge text wall nimpko!

[hushed steeple]

its totally fine!! i genuinely appreciate it, i love to read lore

also mantas transform after they are used to manufacture?

[uncut pond]

Neither did I, I always assumed they used mantas to create krills because it would be a cool reference to Journey 🤣

[hushed steeple]

same or krills were sum sort of expeiremnet that went wrong with the mantas

[half shadow]

possibly! it could be that the many winged manta was simply so powerful (if we equate how many wings they have to how powerful/how much Light they have) that it overloaded and transformed into a creature of Darkness like the krill

[nimble ingot]

I agree with your text wall. It is a nice analyses and observation. 👍
The bottom chamber holds a secret I cannot wait to discuss on the server. Just 2 more days and we all can see where that mural is, and what lies on the bottom floor.

[uncut pond]

We still don't know exactly where krills came from, but judging from the Prophecy mural, they might've existed before the King/Prince did, or were created before the Eden cataclysm

[nimble ingot]

Thank you

*Stealing that and adding it to the collection of convoluted lore pictures.

[hushed steeple]

theres a whole in the bottom of the water but u cant really reach down it doesnt let u

this is all i could really see

[keen shore]

Wait a minute! I recognize that leg shape, there’s a skeleton I saw in graveyard yesterday that has those exact legs

I remember thinking “neat, these look like boat oars”

Hold on let me see if I can get a picture of it, might take a bit due to location

[late wasp]

there are these, but it's probably another one

Reika also made these

[half shadow]

Thanks!! I was just swimming around the reef and checking out the murals and I ended up almost drowning a few times due to just staring at it once the idea struck me. And I think that the mural directly backs up my analysis. Here’s what I propose we’re being explicitly shown:

In the first chamber, there are two tiny monowing manta, and in the opposing chamber there are two power diamonds. The ancestors discover this formula, but want more diamonds. So they next try two larger manta, thinking that they can create more diamonds out of larger creatures. However, they still only end up with two diamonds.

From here, the Ancestors think to themselves: What if the size of the Light creature is not what denotes it’s power? What if it’s how many wings they have? So, they next try two duowing mantas, and they end up with THREE power diamonds! Ecstatic in this discovery they next move to octawing mantas, creating a lucrative five whole diamonds. Endlessly opportunistic, the Ancestors gaze towards the depths eagerly at the legendary serpent-like manta creature with a seemingly endless amount of wings on each side, knowing just how many diamonds they could create from its Light energy.

[nimble ingot]

I havent thought of it like that.
Skykids are able to gain more winged light by exploring the world. That is all we know.
I have not considered the idea of other creatures could have winged light energy in them, assuming they just exist. Perhaps that is a very wrong assumption. One that is not the games's fault, but a player's meta knowledge and expectations.

A player expects a world to be alive. To fulfill that criteria, there must be creatures, evidence of creatures living in it (ex. nests, dens, food and water), and players able to interact with the creatures.
What Sky is trying to convey is a world of living light. A world that is not immediately explained to the player, instead the player must seek out the answers themselves by exploring the world, experiencing it, and reflecting on it.
With the abundant amount of mantas, they sometimes tend to fall into the ambiance. They are just there to make the place feel alive. But what players should consider is the WHY. By reading in between the lines, one can find answers that at first does not look obvious, until everything suddenly makes sense.

What you imply feels right. Why would a manta want to evolve into greater versions? How would they do that and once they reach the greatest stage, what can they do?
For the player, it is a bit unclear since the ending of the game does not yet exist and we are yet received all the pieces to complete the puzzle. For the ancestors though, there in lies a few answers that your analyses helped with, Fish.

The ancestors are smart enough to power the diamonds and use them to power boats, structures and mechanisms. They do this to make progress. They do this to build a better civilisation.
Following Fish's idea, the ancestors learned about greater light creatures can power diamonds. And they working through the variants up to the elder variant.

Seeing the other mural does not show the elder being handled in the same way as the others, the ancestors had not tried the elder, yet.

[half shadow]

It’s a little bit silly just how excited I got once I thought about it. I had a full on dramatic musical score in my head LOL

[nimble ingot]

Perhaps, what the final monstrous mural implied is something went wrong.

The greater the manta, the more light power they hold.
Us skykids have first hand experience to what happens when something of great power becomes corrupted.
Whatever caused the corruption, caused the elder creature to turn on the ancestors.

Seeing the size I wanted to scream out a name. But doing so will get me muted. and I don't want that again, so I will be a bit articulate.

The large creature in the water, and the crewmembers scavenging on the island for resources. And the canoneer seems to be most determined to be the best.
Folks are welcome to look up the story by Charles Dickenson, about a tale of a monstrously large white whale.

[tulip aspen]

AAAA I NEED TO READ ALL OF THIS LATER NO ONE TALK UNTIL TOMORROW

[rigid mural]

ah yes, moby 🐳

fascinating theory fish, let me just yoink it

[keen shore]

At first I was thinking this would be inefficient due to the rarity of 4+ winged mantas, and then I realized… what if this is why they’re so rare

[frigid tinsel]

fear.jpg

[keen shore]

I mean

Inability of mantas to go to Eden and ascend to higher forms + most 4+ winged mantas being drained of light to charge darkstone = very few 4+ winged mantas remaining

[rigid mural]

fun fact, the tale of moby 🐳 is actually atrocious. offshore survival is extremely difficult with the means they had back in the day & after a whale attack, i recommend not reading the book unless you're comfortable with graphic scenes.
in any case, if it's inspired by moby 🐳... then the spirits related to that area must have seen a brutal end

[frigid tinsel]

there's quite a bit of evidence that something went wrong at the Treasure Reef facility. what comes to mind is the claw marks on the tower. also it's flooded when it's implied it didn't use to be, things in disarray and ruin

[nimble ingot]

Exactly, so atrocious, people get muted.

(NOTICE: That is a joke! The actual reason is the bot cannot tell when one says the whales name and instead gets triggered with the second word.)

[rustic heron]

The alternative is that it isn’t a manta.

[nimble ingot]

no promises, unless the bot tells folks to sleep.

[tulip aspen]

are you talking about the elder sanct creature...

[nimble ingot]

It could be a bird, a fish, a crab or even a butterfly for all we know.
The mantas seem to get the most attention given how many there are and how many variant have been found in Sky.

[rustic heron]

Mantas are not the only light creatures. There are variants also possessing wings that are morphologically very distinct from mantas.

[frigid tinsel]

could be one of the extinct creatures

[rigid mural]

yeah, full name of the book just in case:

[rustic heron]

So, one thing to note is that not all creatures get corrupted. Butterflies, for instance, just disappear when they are used for light power.

[half shadow]

(hah) Oh I totally get those vibes as well. I don’t know off the top of my head if there’s any obvious signs of actual damage that a creature could have caused rather than the result of the environment degrading over time, but going along with this theory, the manta - which I’ll call an Elder Manta as Raider did - could have been the cause of the sinking of the reef. If they attempted to mass produce more diamonds using its Light energy, they might have assumed they could [INSERT WHATEVER THING HERE IS USED TO EXTRACT LIGHT FROM MANTAS] just like they easily did with lesser winged mantas. However, if we assume number of wings = more complex and powerful creature, it could be that draining it of its massive amount of Light was enough to corrupt it, leading to a massive corrupted creature all of a sudden trapped with the Ancestors inside the facility.

This also plays on my theory that the smaller/less complex a creature is, the closer it is to the pure element of Light. Butterflies are the most simple form of Light-turned-creature, next to birds and then small mantas. Creatures on that end of the lifeform spectrum might be more easily recycled into pure Light, for example: the manta that gets drained by the krill in GW doesn’t leave behind a corrupted creature. It’s still too close to being purely the element of Light. As a manta grows more wings they evolve into more tangible organisms, now closer to true animals vs Light energy shaped into a being.

I propose that this is why krill are always large. The smallest one we saw was in a memory, and it was still significantly larger than poor Angler. The krill are corrupted versions of something, that much we know is canon. I think that the krill were once complex multi-winged manta creatures with enough power of their own to leave behind a corrupted form when their Light was drained. Sort of like how when a big enough star goes supernova, it leaves behind a black hole instead of a white dwarf.

So I think that the Ancestors in the Reef were wholly unprepared to deal with a massive corrupted creature they created by draining its Light, because they had only ever drained lesser mantas, which are not complex enough to become corrupt.

[keen shore]

Also about why mantas would want to ascend in the first place: it’s probably just an instinctual thing

[rustic heron]

The same could be for most mantas. They may be wide, but they’re not very thick, hehe.

[half shadow]

I agree with you Lapis I was just typing all that out! Not all light creatures corrupt when they die. I think it depends how many wings/how evolved/how large they become

[nimble ingot]

Hahahahaha, checkmate!
Thank you Vela.

[rigid mural]

such as when ? the butterflies dissapear after using a deep call, when in reality they just fly back down to their usual position iirc

[frigid tinsel]

light creatures die/dissipate under darkness because that could just be the nature of darkness – to consume light, not to corrupt. light creatures die if darkness sucks out enough of their light. corruption may be a rare thing because it's not supposed to happen and something else may have occur to make corruption possible

[rustic heron]

There’s a scene in the Switch trailer where one on the ancestors manipulates some light. A huge mass of light grows outward, and by the end most of it is absorbed, with the remains turning into butterflies.

Assumedly, the light/wax and the butterflies are one and the same, meaning butterflies get absorbed.

[half shadow]

Yeah, what I’m saying is the smaller/less complex winged creature it is, the easier it is to simply be absorbed back into pure Light

[keen shore]

This also makes sense considering that krill are much more skeletal in appearance than The Worm in the mural, meaning that The Worm had more “tangible” flesh other than its skeleton to leave behind.

BUT mantas do seem to have skeletons. You can find one in Vault, which I know is debatably real, but my point is that if there wasn’t a real world equivalent it wouldn’t be visible there in the first place. Meaning that mantas would leave bones behind if killed, although what those bones become if corrupted is unknown

[half shadow]

Which is why I posit the Reef Ancestors could have been so surprised when they unintentionally caused the corruption of a manta creature powerful enough to corrupt when drained, instead of being absorbed into pure Light they wished to use to mass produce diamonds

[rigid mural]

I like this, we know stars have a lot of significance in Sky, so I will be keeping an eye on what you have to say

[frigid tinsel]

could the first case of corruption occurred at the Treasure Reef facility?

[rustic heron]

There are then multiple implications.

1. Light creatures need a source of light to live. Otherwise something else needing the light will absorb them.

2. The original mural depicts a surprised Ancestor on a boat on the water. It may have been that some creatures naturally corrupt when absent of light and large enough. This could be what the creature in the mural was; a naturally abyssal creature that hunts light.

3. Potentially, giving enough light to a corrupted creature could revive them. This is a massive amount of light, however. Judging from the notion that we never have seen the process.

[nimble ingot]

There is in fact a detail in Sky that can support the death if light creatures, compared to stars theory that Fish so lovingly forged.

The krill in wasteland would hunt light.
There is one that attacks a small manta.
Assuming the krill killed the poor thing, the manta was destroyed entirely. If it were larger, it would either have become a skeleton or become corrupted.
Take note the krill was what killed the manta.
An impact that hard deals 6 winged light's worth of damage to a skykid.

So the small manta never stood a chance :(

[rustic heron]

Why is the stars theory invalidated by light creature death?

[rigid mural]

Agree to disagree, I personally think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that just because both wax and butterflies were released. Perhaps the wax is the non-sentient light that will dissapear/be absorbed, and the butterflies are light that gained enough sentience to stay around for a while ?

[rustic heron]

The visual similarities are hard to ignore. There’s even little balls of wax around the butterflies.

Unless you can explain that, I don’t think you have much ground to disagree outside of “I don’t like it”.

[nimble ingot]

I mean it supports the theory.
As in, I agree with what fish wrote.

I am a fan of fish's light creatures and stars theory.

[keen shore]

So where in this timeline does the small krill seem in anglers memory fit in? Did the remains take longer to corrupt and form itself into a krill than the Worm, meaning the reef ancestors still had no experience with corruption when the Worm came around, as the krill were still forming and not yet aggressive? Or did the reef ancestors already have some experience with corruption, but it was either kept hidden from most workers there do they could continue their work / they didn’t know how it worked or that it could get that bad?

[rustic heron]

That’s my thinking as well. I wouldn’t want something invalidated if it really isn’t.

[frigid tinsel]

wanna meet this mad scientist ancestor

[rigid mural]

could just be part of the wings. I wasn't suggesting you were wrong, I was just going "yeah but it might not be 100% accurate", please dont take my commentary personally

[rustic heron]

Or worse: Krills breed in the depths.

[keen shore]

Maybe, but given how skeletal krill appear and the fact that they’ve already been corrupted, I seriously doubt they could reproduce even if they wanted to. Plus them breeding in the depths only explains the ones scattered around treasure reef, less so the ones in graveyard and even LESS so the krill in Eden

[frigid tinsel]

that little krill might've killed a scavenger or two

[nimble ingot]

Would a krill need to?

If it cannot die, it can live forever.
It does not need to breed, only feed.

If it can breed, then we have bigger problems.

[frigid tinsel]

ig it's a question of whether light creatures can breed and if dark creatures retain that ability post-corruption

[rustic heron]

GW lies next to a sea and is covered in clouds. It’s probably how Krills learned to come onto land.

And why there are soldiers trained to fight against them.

It also explains the skeletons; Krills are pretty vicious, and it’s likely they ram at you with incredible force.

There are also giant holes and cracks throughout vault. Maybe the Krills got in, and found there way to Eden after sensing the giant Crystal.

[rustic heron]

There are eggs in Forest. Something must have laid them, and something flying since they’re on a tree.

[nimble ingot]

Are krills afraid of the sun?

Lapis has a point with the krill we see are under cloud cover. The exception would be the ones in office, however then it would be night (no sun).

Would a Dark Dragon prefer to live in the shade?

Oh my goodness.
If they cannot stand the sun, prey on the living and steal light. Then they are like vampires.
Dark Dragon Vampires!

[rustic heron]

You know what’s worse? Krills look like something is shedding off them, like mold. Dark plants and crabs have something similar.

Maybe corruption spreads like mold spores.

[half shadow]

Mantas do have skeletons! The skeletons we see are all very large. I think it fits my idea to assume that those manta creatures were evolved enough past the point of being able to fully poof into Light without a trace left behind. Although this is apart of concept art notes and therefore potentially non canon, the bones also designate the death was traumatic.

Likening it again to the life cycle of stars (which is simplified bc hey I’m not into astronomy): The bigger something is, the higher the chance of it collapsing into a black hole. The creatures of Sky could work the same, but with “how big the star is” equating to “how many wings the creature has” which also tends to correlate to the size and complexity of the creature like the Elder Manta, which hardly resembles a manta ray anymore.

Not unlike the facility mural creature, which could have elongated to a serpent-like length to accommodate its many, many wings.

[nimble ingot]

I noticed.
The krill repellent is odd.
It covers us in a dark matter similar to what a krill gives off, yet they will still attack. The spell just forces the krill to miss the skykid.

[rustic heron]

Krill repellant is just bread mold. This is canon.

[nimble ingot]

sure, and the sparkles skykids gives off is pixie dust.

[rustic heron]

Sky is just neverland confirmed. Sky kid pixie dust gives you wings the ability to fly.

[keen shore]

Oh sorry, I meant the small mantas also have skeletons! Should have been more specific, but I get what you mean. :3c

[rustic heron]

I JUST REALIZED COMMODORE COULD BE CAPTAIN HOOK AND HIS CREW, AND THE KRILL COULD BE THE CROCODILE.

[nimble ingot]

who is peterpan then?
It cannot be skykids, they are the lost boys and girls.

wait, the guide????
Could the guide be akin to Peter Pan?

Lapis' theories are making more sense to me, Help.

[rustic heron]

GUIDE IS PETER PAN. ANXIOUS ANGLER IS MR.SMITHY.

[keen shore]

Wonder if this is the reason behind why crabs get avoided instead of attacked, since they also are covered in dark flakes? Also, it could just be that krill are after light over anything else, so when they get close enough to realize we’re covered in the same dark flakes as every other corrupted creature, they realize it’s not worth the effort and move away

[nimble ingot]

Jane is what, canoneer???

[rustic heron]

WE’RE THE LOST KIDS. SEASON OF THE ABYSS IS JUST PETER PAN WHOOOOOO. LET’S GOOO LORE CHAT!

[nimble ingot]

That is possible.

Crabs can also be hit by krill, though is it difficult to set up as the krill must strike a crab by mistake.
When that happens, the crab accidently saves a skykid and buries itself. The krill takes off and carries on like nothing happened. Both parties seemingly unharmed.

[rigid mural]

there's a manta skeleton in vault afaik, valley level

[nimble ingot]

who are we missing? Tinkerbell?
What can stand in for that in the season?

A butterfly would be cute, but there are none in Abyss. Unless we check the jars... 😦

[rigid mural]

just ask prairie elder for one

[half shadow]

You’re right! Here’s my thoughts on that as well as the small krill in Angler’s memory:

The krill could have been a formerly powerful enough winged creature to still corrupt despite its size. As per my theory about what the facility mural is showing us, the Ancestors first tested larger mantas to see if they could make more power diamonds out of them. However, they still only ended up with two, even if the mantas they used were bigger. So they don’t need larger mantas to make more power diamonds from. Then they try with two four-winged mantas of the roughly same size as their standard mono-winged manta, and they produce three diamonds instead of two.

So, I think while in many cases, the amount of wings that a creature evolves usually means it is also larger in size, like the elder manta, it doesn’t always mean that bigger equals more powerful. There could have easily been complex multi-winged creatures like the elder manta once that were just smaller sized, leading to them still being powerful enough to corrupt into krill creatures which leads to smaller krill.

THAT or there is a means that corrupted creatures can in fact breed, or are able to autonomously spawn and grow where large amounts of Darkness is condensed. If Light can create creatures out of itself, perhaps Darkness can as well?

oh I meant to include this screenshot again so it can be looked at:

oof my discord shut down i hope those sent lol

[late wasp]

this is by far the best screenshot i've seen of that mural

[half shadow]

THANK YOU IT TOOK ME SO LONG TO MAKE PERFECT AND EVEN THEN I HAVE MY WL IN THE WAY and then I just edited it to be sharper so the lines weren’t as fuzzy cus everything underwater has a slight blur to it

[nimble ingot]

HD quality visual lore here.

[half shadow]

I was on Switch so I couldn’t do the camera mode thing that blocks out the WL so I did my best I also kept almost drowning because of how long I spent adjusting myself lmao, luckily there’s a big light plant directly next to it

[late wasp]

the sacrifices taken for science

[nimble ingot]

I suspect the devs knew what they were doing with plant placement XD

[half shadow]

I could probably get an even better one on my phone hmmmm

thank u devs much love xoxo fish

anyways I might take a nap now, respective apologies to everyone who had to deal with my essays breaking up convos for a while. it helps me structure my analytic thoughts easier if i type in more proper sentence structure

[nimble ingot]

No worries.
Thank you for this wonderful break through.
Rest well Fish.

[tulip aspen]

naturally corrupt, no

creature of darkness maybe, just like the cinematic

[spring oyster]

Have any 'black hole' type theories emerged about the krill? If it was corrupted light, perhaps why the krill hunger for it and the glowing red stones sap light is they are negative energy. Still reading the last 1,000 messages in here from my last visit tho 👀

[frigid tinsel]

hmm, something I wrote yesterday concerns a more "hoarding dragons" view of krill: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[nimble ingot]

Black holes have subtly appeared in concept art, as well as a passing reference in the game.

[nimble ingot]

During the Fire Trail, you face a large sphere of darkness.
This may be the closest ingame image to these concept art

[spring oyster]

So pretty!!

[spring oyster]

Oh man those awful darkness monsters?? That fire trial is worse than eden for me

[rigid mural]

black holes do flares sometimes

[nimble ingot]

And no blackhole is without a Galaxy

[spring oyster]

I'm surprised and shocked I didn't make the dionysus connection... the world's final stage is a freaking coliseum.

[pastel brook]

Do you think bots can think?

[spring oyster]

Isn't gold a good conductor for electricity? Maybe it's simply that light likes what amplified it.

[nimble ingot]

May as well leave this clip of what a black hole sounds like.
This one supposedly was feeding of a star, that used to be its partner as a pair of binary stars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYiWNLv-Bgg

[rustic heron]

No, Gold is a semiconductor. Under specific conditions, it can conduct electricity. This makes it good as a switch, or for transistors. Of course, its rarity limits it usage.

[spring oyster]

Ah dang that's it. Thanks for the correction!

[spring oyster]

THAT IS SO COOL while also slightly sounding like a whoopee cushion... kurzgesagt has an amazing youtube video about the largest black holes, i recommend it

[rigid mural]

when you vacuum and it catches on a piece of blanket

[nimble ingot]

I know, it is a good video 🙂

Remember the sound came from something so large, it would be just a wall of darkness that falls down to earth, this dark mass that will rip out mountains, raise oceans and kill you so fast, you would not even know about it until you realised time was slowing down and it all stopped with you being spaghettified.

[rustic heron]

You know what's funny? All the lesser creatures of darkness we see in the cinematic are gone from the world as well. Whatever happened in Eden likely also did something to these creatures. Perhaps the light emitted from the initial blast burned away these natural dark creatures.

[frigid tinsel]

Hmmmmmmmmm

ancestors used gold to better control and manipulate the power of the power diamonds for their technology

[boreal nebula]

Another possible thing is that was a rescue center with a floor for each size

But it also nice to notice how mantas in the acquarium we free left their pools fool of "oxygen" so this could be a pro to getting cruelty free resource out of these creatures, beside maybe using the (light) crystals (like those collected by Commodore) to collect some of the energy mantas naturally give us on close range

It's still a mystery what the underground of that tower is IMHO

[rustic heron]

The best part is that all of these have controls. This means that Ancestors had rudimentary state machines controlled by the diamonds. AKA rudimentary computers.

[harsh pecan]

If they could then we wouldn’t get messages like “look fam it’s not that deep”

[sharp lichen]

Hey, I’ve noticed that the beginning of a theme that plays during Eden (https://youtu.be/eNfqN0QI6Zo) sounds similar to Dias Irae, a leitmotif that usually signifies death (https://youtu.be/0hL1m4hGBVY). I’m not 100% sure on it being connected, but I think something’s there.

[harsh pecan]

Oh yea it’s kinda similar actually

[rustic heron]

Isn't Jam a musician? He would know music theory as well, but I haven't noticed him making any comments on the music ofthe game.

[harsh pecan]

Someone call Jam

[boreal nebula]

Wonderful but mysterious stone pillar (seen in some concept art too even if just lighting studies)

I think all of these are connected somehow

[boreal nebula]

I raise you these!

Pictures above

[rustic heron]

The last one is reaching, but the others all share the same symbol .

[sharp lichen]

Maybe it’s a symbol associated with Valley?

[boreal nebula]

I think they might be different interpretations of the same symbol (for example the one around the snow bird altar deeply remind me the layout of GW Elder tomb), the same some call it kingpropananda

Like the lines at the base of some stone doorway in Forest and Prairie

I mean this, visible in Forest right near the Days Of Rainbow candle cake

[boreal nebula]

You know

I cannot unsee/unhear this 😵‍💫

Dies Irae must be more pervasive then when I discovered what Wilhelm Scream was 🤯

[patent panther]

Can someone explain all the lore to me 😅

[frigid tinsel]

there's so much, you have to be specific. what about the lore interests you the most right now?

[sharp lichen]

This will only take a short while! (1/35)

[boreal nebula]

It is better to start from something in particular, anything specific that you are wondering about?

We usually call this Megabird, the costellation we see when we reach and leave Eden (named after some official conceptart)

[sharp lichen]

To be serious:If you don’t want to suffer through my abnormally long copypastas, check the pinned messages for some basic resources!

[boreal nebula]

We consider it a Deity of creating cause there is a mural in Forgotten Ark where Ancestors seems to workship it

[sharp lichen]

Here as well!

[boreal nebula]

Old collage I made during my moth days (best I could even get to a full landscape mode of the Constellation seen from Orbit)

Plus other "drawing" can be seen in Vault Secret level when we enter Office)

The last one was a concept art, I cannot recall where is it from, tho

[hushed steeple]

what are rudimentary computers?

[patent panther]

I just started the little prince is there a lot of Laura behind that?

[boreal nebula]

Some pointed out like those two curly brackets {{ might be seen into windvanes even before Season of Flight

Windvane from Sanctuary

[compact shale]

Probably not, as it's hard to pinpoint its canonicity in the first place.

[boreal nebula]

Since that The Little Prince was a collab about the famous Film (based on the Book) devs left us the riddle of letting us know which part of that season is canon and what is not

When we enter it's captioned :
Starlight Desert
Where worlds collide

So for example spirits are sky versions of the book/movie characters, for the Example the Cartographer is depicted as a Vault Scholar

[compact shale]

If it's for the sake of canonchasing, imo it's best to ignore everything about it except for the fact that Starlight Desert's location is real (it has a wind path to it)

[boreal nebula]

...
This might be a good clue on how the scholars could look (since there is the same marking on their hat and cape as on the walls inside Vault) but it's unclear how much the character were part of the Sky Kingdom

For example they have figurative chains ⛓️ maybe about something that binds them into being distracted/trapped by their own "demons"

Sneezing Scholar : "Shush, I am styding a visitor from another world"
.
.
.
*Le Prince, The Visitor

[boreal nebula]

@compact shale Maybe the Starlight Desert is real, but somehow I doubt it really is inside Vault

That's because Vault theme is night and memories and dreams and..

.. O-kay, maybe it's better I stop myself before explaining the circle of life 😅

[late wasp]

According to the official map, it is real.
Home is real. and so is the Office too.

[compact shale]

Its location is real, but whether it is an illusion or not is up to us

[late wasp]

purple sand is hallucinogenic

[boreal nebula]

Is it? Office just a Easter Egg of IRL headquarters of TGC

[late wasp]

it is in the map, it's both an easter egg but a "joke" part of the real island. we can imagine it was a group of ancestors with very unique taste for architecture. lol

[compact shale]

Hahahhha I've written something about that

For canonchasing's sake it's best to ignore it for the most part but there is one question that might be important

If Team Flight redirected birbs to make the path then that means Starlight Desert had a purpose to the ancestors. What was it?

Best answer I've gotten so far is that it's the final part of the pilgrimage before Eden

[late wasp]

it does hold ruins though.
not just the big illusion ones, but the ones where the Prince faces the Krill.
when I went there I assumed Starlight Desert had a town in the past.

[boreal nebula]

"That is up to you" to us exactly

And IMHO Eden looks too far away from us while it could be closer

Those desertic lands in my eyes looks like memories of the lands we see far from Isle of Dawn's shores in the Switch Trialer

So maybe Starlight Desert is a big room created in Vault

[boreal nebula]

Btw I think when we have a checkpoint in Office the Return Shrines caption it as "returning to the light"

Memo: need to check if it's the same caption for Orbit

[late wasp]

ah! just thought of something
Ash is wrong

The Starlight Desert is subtitled as "Where Dream worlds collide"
The existence of the Office in the map implies it is a real location too.
But it also doesn't make sense!

Unless we also think it's a Dream world colliding into the Sky world.
Like a part of our world / or the "Dream version" of something from our world ending up in Sky World.

Just like the Starlight Desert is another world colliding with the Sky World.

Ash can be wrong, because Yui Tanabe is also behind many of the ideas, sadly he isn't on Discord. So Ash just tells us what she knows.

[tulip aspen]

great point!

[rustic heron]

Crazy theory. Sky is actually just a game, and it was made in our world. Where in our world? In the office. Boom.

[late wasp]

Sky World is real, but it exists in online servers.
Digimon lore

[tulip aspen]

ash is wrong
that old familiar road

[boreal nebula]

Might also be just a represation of how they would look like if the whole game was loaded as one, but I cannot be so sure on it as canon , even if official artwork

Like concept arts, there are tones of them and are official, but some concept grew up into something different

Whoa whoa whoa.. this turned into the most lively topic I seen in like .. 1 year

[rustic heron]

You weren't here yesterday. Hoo boy.

[late wasp]

there was that time we had to call the cops.
the vault of lore is super lively recently lol!

[boreal nebula]

I might regret this...
||Why? What happened yesterday?||

[late wasp]

anyways "ash is wrong" is just a clickbait way of saying "there are things she doesn't know about", like how she mentions Yui Tanabe did the Cave of Prophecy murals on his own. Yui Tanabe is also the lead artist in Season of Abyss, and the one that made that map.

These things make me think TGC has just a "basic lore Bible", but there are many things Ash does not know about, but people like Yui Tanabe might (he is an employee of TGC for years iirc).

Like the windpath lore. Ash just knows they connect to those places geographically and there is a map, but not how those more wacky places function.

That map is at least canon during the Season of Flight. Now that we are in Abyss, it might have been thrown out of the window already lol!

[rustic heron]

Sorry for the diversion, but I wanted to ask. Where did you hear/read that blessings were made of darkstone?

[tulip aspen]

clickbait way
ah
wasn't for me when i said it ehe

[rigid mural]

About the manta wing power thing, what if someone if not the king himself tried to experiment on an elder (or himself) to make a living battery ? Surely they must have plenty of light.

[harsh pecan]

Oooo, which elder would it be tho

[rigid mural]

The king.

[harsh pecan]

O h- but if it wasn’t the King, whose the second option

[rustic heron]

It was actually Prairie Elder. He's been deceiving us the entire team. I mean, who was the first to start trapping butterflies?

[harsh pecan]

👀

[late wasp]

It's due to the overall shape they take, I'll link some concepts that describe this:
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5cf9836e9d1c5200018df596/1582059246469-SJ2GG65K2J1M9IMH29V7/068_Sky.jpg?format=1500w
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5cf9836e9d1c5200018df596/1582059227858-CUIVDBBYNBHR75LESQYQ/065_Sky.jpg?format=1000w
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5cf9836e9d1c5200018df596/1582059666218-U0ZY7ASG5WCFEU9IZA5M/190_Sky.jpg?format=1000w
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5cf9836e9d1c5200018df596/1582059350550-M0Z2BOEH30UWSP0APUHY/122_Sky.jpg?format=1000w

The in game 3D model is even more striking

[rigid mural]

I just thought about that because in Vault we see the king holding something with his mouth open. Could be pain or prayer idk.
King is also a confirmed but absent elder. Perhaps his disappearance could have been an experiment gone wrong.

[rustic heron]

Okay, so our theory is almost completely valid. If I can find any evidence of Ancestors using blessings, we'll ascend to lore godhood.

[rigid mural]

Ark

[rustic heron]

Vela, you have no idea what this could mean. Is it confirmed that in Ark, Ancestors used blessings?

[harsh pecan]

True

[rigid mural]

The muralist's paintings look pretty clear to me, but if you think that's not enough, I can only hope TGC implement something that will be proof enough.

[boreal nebula]

Before I forget... In this concept I think I see Krills spikes in the water

Glad Abyss is on the verge of making this a thing

[rustic heron]

Bless you, you beautiful angel. Then that settles it. Blessing theory unites multiple main lore theories in one fell swoop. Blessings are more than a game mechanic. They are the cornerstone of Ancestor technology.

[rigid mural]

I think they were posted here earlier, let me send you the messages.

[rustic heron]

I do recall that. Salem posted them.

[rigid mural]

Here. The mural I'm referring to.

[rustic heron]

I've got a lore rager right now like you would not believe. This changes everything. Why the mantas are being drained. Why Sky kids can fly. Who the voice is. What the Eden Crystal is.

All of it. Vault, Ancestor reincarnation. My gosh. It's all there.

I'm going to gather my thoughts into a document. Heck, maybe I'll even retire from lore theorizing.

[rigid mural]

[sharp lichen]

Wait really

[spring oyster]

If you read from here on, some fantastic connections were made with the power source of Sky's innocent-seeming spell/blessings system at the center.

[rustic heron]

Yeah. You guys can do the rest without me, right? (Just kidding, I'm never leaving).

[keen shore]

Yeah, I’m still skeptical about the blessings idea. I want to believe it, but it still hasn’t been explained why red darkstone isn’t more common if it can be used to contain spells. Copypasting from my message above:

Forgotten Ark is full of spells, so why isn’t there more red darkstone there to hold them? Why isn’t there more red darkstone levitation spell holders in vault and treasure reef (for the minecarts) and village of dreams (for the boats)? Why isn’t there more red darkstone light spell holders scattered throughout the kingdom, especially in Wasteland? Why isn’t there red darkstone krill and crab repellant spell holders in Wasteland?

The spell examples are all taken straight from the list of spells in game, by the way.

[patent panther]

Thank you!!

[spring oyster]

Quick question- is anyone actually still alive in this game besides the creatures and sky kids? All of the elders and ancestors just all sorta-holographic memories

[lean siren]

are fish light creatures?

[keen shore]

Krill and crabs are… debatably alive, if that counts. I’d probably put them under the undead category

[spring oyster]

Spells also seem to be visual or spellcaster-focused, unless there's a defensive spell I'm not aware of. This is regarding the darkness-creature-repellent spells question

[spring oyster]

Fair. 'Corporeal' may be a better phrase for me to use

[keen shore]

Also adding on to this: one of the key points in this theory being “the king was either very stupid or hasty and didn’t know they’d accidentally kill everyone” doesn’t make much sense

[spring oyster]

I could imagine it as a 'one power crystal to run the whole tower' situation and the charge just overloaded the crystal. I think Lapis used a Chernobyl comparison earlier. (Sidenote I love that this chat actively debates both sides and pokes holes. YAY COMMUNITY REASONING)

[rustic heron]

I think there's a common misconception here. Darkstone is one color: gray-black. Depending on the type of spell it contains/the type of light in contains, it changes color.

As for why there isn't more of them, its simple. Spells are a one-time use thing. Thin shells of darkstone used to hold a single spell for a one-time use.

[spring oyster]

The Abyss mural already showed a penchant for 'bigger input gets better output so RAISE THE STAKES' reasoning and THAT's just in the same building

[rustic heron]

And also darkstone turns into crabs over time.

[late wasp]

to be fair, I also agree, in my head spells are just contained in darkstone, but the fact they are red and not immediately drains the skykid is weird too.

although i would have to check in game if they are actually red, or maybe if they are another color, like yellow.

[keen shore]

I can get that, but considering where the placement is, that crystal would’ve overloaded instantly (+ the problem with the Eden crystal is that it’s corrupted, not overcharged — overcharged crystals would have too much light inside and not need to suck ours out) and I just… why wouldn’t they test this massive crystal before putting it directly over the most massive light source in the world? What kind of civilization is this where no one has the common sense required to put in basic testing measures to avoid killing literally everyone?

[spring oyster]

What if the king was infected and had a craving for light (a la krill) and this is how he figured in his maybe-frantic-attempt-not-to-die(or be undead) he could consume it without being swept into it? 🤔

[keen shore]

There’s still a few problems with this explanation.

• When blessings are colored, they are always colored red. This implies that not just the flight spell was a red color, but everything was.

• Darkstone’s only four known “color morphs” are it glowing slightly brighter for a brief moment (when you charge it), being light blue (when unrefined), being a slightly darker blue (when formed into a crystal), and red (when corrupted). There’s no evidence for color variations outside of this existing.

• Darkstone shells would still be scattered around and visible. This isn’t a material that breaks down easily; even after centuries even the first darkstone crystals have held their shape perfectly, which is more than we can say for most of the stone ruins. In short, darkstone is more durable than solid rock.

• If spells are a one time use, then why is the flight spell still going? Wouldn’t it have been already used up?

[spring oyster]

Side thought, interesting that the core funnel of light and rebirth is in a barren wasteland of death and darkness but said light hasn't helped purify it at all - not sure the Eden light is aligned as a good force to begin with. Surely Eden was in better condition than the rubble but heck, couldn't be that great of a place

[keen shore]

That’s a good point for in a little while (as I don’t want to derail the conversation happening right now). Why hasn’t the Eden beam cleared everything yet? Is the massive crystal above it absorbing too much of its light to do that? Even if that’s true, where did the corruption come from - how did a single crystal, even one of that size, produce that much corruption?

[bright spade]

[uncut pond]

I've heard somewhere else a theory about the crystal containing the soul of the prince/king himself, and the scene inside the void when we die and hug the other child of light is actually us hugging the prince/king inside the giant crystal

I have no idea how plausible this is as I don't know most of the lore, but I'm pretty sure that the king being the source of the storm/corruption is something that has been seen in concept art

[rustic heron]

There's also a yellow variant we see in a few places. The Prophecy cave also has presumable darkstone in green, blue, red, and light blue.

I'm assuming, much like how the red rock rain in Eden shatters, spells shatter too because blessings contain much more light than most other spells.

If spells are a one time use, then why is the flight spell still going? Wouldn’t it have been already used up?

It never successfully cast completely. It was a failed spell. I'm thinking that the Eden flight spell didn't kill all the Ancestors. We know there are survivors who existed after the Eden event.

What I think happened is that the Flight Spell only partially cast, and just on the King. The result shattered him and sucks all the light from the Eden beam, preventing spirits from moving on and slowly sucking light from everything around it.

What likely killed everyone was the Krills attracted by the spell and sheltered by the storm it created. Krills love the light, and are drawn to it. Throughout the realms closest to Eden,, Krills would hunt and kill ancestors. Most died, some escaped. In the areas furthest from Eden, there are not krills, and no storm.

With their civilization crumbled, Ancestors fled far and wide, and died out slowly, unable to connect with the light. Scavengers would look for Diamonds as a source of light, but eventually those ran out.

[keen shore]

Where are the yellow darkstone variants & what are the ones you’re talking about in the prophecy cave? The symbols on the pillar are likely just murals painted from the prophecy lights.

Also, if the flight spell was just cast on the king, why is it over the massive light beam where it would affect everyone?

Why is the flight spell a different shape than other blessings?

And about the spell being only partially cast, I don’t think that’s a thing that can happen. In-game, you can click on them and they work pretty much instantly; if this is a game mechanic then the little evidence we have for pre apocalypse spells (that one enchantment mural) doesn’t show any sign of dud or faulty spells.

Finally, since the beam is still a giant pillar of light, wouldn’t the flight spell just suck the abundance of light from there instead of taking it from areas as far away as wasteland?

[rustic heron]

It's in the first door in Vault, on the right of the starting point. The door glows yellow when you light them. So do the one's in Eden's door.

The Flight spell is probably the most powerful spell ever created by Ancestor Kind. This is the equivalent of letting a person enter the heart of the universe and meet with their deity without any other assistance. It was the most ambitious thing ever undertaken by Ancestor society. The power needed to do this for one Ancestor alone would be trememndous. For all spirit kind, it would likely need the most energy ever created in sky.

[keen shore]

Oh! That’s the first color variation I was talking about :+) if you pay attention a lot of darkstone glows a faint yellow when you light it, although those are the most obvious. I’m assuming the ones in vault and Eden just need more light to function (as they have to move heavy stone doors on their own) so they glow a brighter color by default

[rustic heron]

My thinking is that the Eden blessing was designed to be permanent, a place for all spirits to visit once and immediately ascend. It would merge the power of spells and the permanence of other darkstone devices.

It likely worked, but after the first cast it started to fracture, and the resulting storm created from the heat of the spell caused it to be impossible to approach the blessing. Placed over the eden beam, it also prevented spirits from crossing over.

The blown-off chunks of the spell in Eden still try to cast the spell, but need light, so they suck light from anything that passes by. They can't get enough to cast the spell, but still suck the light.

With the original being cracked as well, it probably leaks as much energy as it intakes, preventing any spread of the spell beyond its immediate vicinity.

And the Prohphecy darkstone isn't just lights, as upon completion of a trial the cave changes corresponding to the color of the trial.

[keen shore]

Two things to add because the first section is mostly really neat headcanon: spells don’t need light to work; they don’t suck any out of us and if they did, the instant recharge spell would be pretty much useless. + the enchantment lights and sanctuary quests also noticeably change the environment after quest completion despite lack of darkstone mechanisms, so I’m still skeptical to say prophecy is 100% darkstone especially considering we can’t find any darkstone in the cave itself

[rustic heron]

These are really good points. Would you mind writing down all your questions somewhere? My brain is running on empty, and I'll need to think about these (and others) more later.

Oh, and share the doc with me. I'll write something more comprehensive later.

[keen shore]

I think I’ve run out of questions, actually, unless you add more stuff to your theory so you should be able to just reread what I’ve already sent for right now. I am mentally tired too so I get it

Maybe a different topic for right now. Why are there so many discarded pots in the prairie temple; and why did whatever they contained never make it past there in their original containers? As in, were they transferred to something else (and original container was left behind) or were they just consumed in the temple?

[rustic heron]

Yeah, it's hard thinking about this. It's got good foundations, but I need to flesh it out with more evidence, and its got potential. Let me think about the pots for a bit.

[keen shore]

Mods are asleep, it is now time to ponder the pots

[pastel brook]

Psh, I'm WAY cooler than those mods!

[frigid tinsel]

debatable

[half shadow]

hi lore chat how’s it hanging

[rustic heron]

Still thinking about pots.

[half shadow]

sweet

[keen shore]

Update on odd Eden boat. Explored all the areas of Forest and Prairie that I could remember that had boats, including the wind paths and the shipwright’s house. Both theories that I had about the reason this boat had those symbols have been proven incorrect:

Theory 1: these are symbols on an unfinished boat, painted to show where darkstone goes later. (This is proved incorrect by shipwright’s house, which contains an unfinished boat without these symbols on them. Also, none of the other boats in prairie had these symbols either)
Theory 2: These are symbols denoting that this boat is meant to be pulled by a light creature instead of powered by darkstone. (Proven false by the wind paths. The boats there look a lot different in shape than this one - much wider and shallower, with poles sticking out on the sides - leading me to believe this boat functions more in line with the darkstone powered ones).

Additional fun facts:
-> The boats in the first area of forest, where it starts raining (the “docking area”) do not have this symbol either, despite this diamond symbol being plastered almost all over that building
-> prairie boats only have the first darkstone slot (for a total of 2 crystal slots) instead of ones running all the way down the sides

-> No other boat has that square indentation around the darkstone slot, just the hollowed out space where the crystal is

So far I haven’t been able to find identical or even similar boats throughout the explored realms. Will test later few realms and Isle soon, but those cause issues due to distinct Lack of boat

[rustic heron]

It's worth noting that Eden seems more technologically advanced than other parts of the kingdom. There are girders in the second section of Eden, for instance.

[keen shore]

In short I have learned no new information from my boat expedition

[grand vigil]

This writing is new right? What do you guys think it means?

[frigid tinsel]

nobody knows

[rustic heron]

I think this also shows up in the All Elders Custscene, for the Vault mural.

[keen shore]

I want to explain it with this but… where’s the technology on the Eden boats? They’re just solid stone with darkstone symbols painted on them

[rustic heron]

One place to look is in Prairie. There's a spirit repairing a boat in the Villages section. I'd look there to see if we an see inside a boat.

[keen shore]

That’s the shipwright! I said I already explored there in my post up above, their boat didn’t have any darkstone slots at all. (I believe they were making an entirely new one due to this). Also, this symbol didn’t appear in the boats scattered around their home, nor in the model boat they keep as a reference on their desk

[tulip aspen]

wait where is that from-

[rustic heron]

Vault OOB, the one just for Vault Elder.

[keen shore]

I already know I don’t have the brains to even attempt cracking the code on vault elders headpiece, nor am I confident it’s super important in lore, so… am just going to leave that analysis up to someone else

[grand vigil]

Imagine if matpat finds this game
We should make that happen :D

[rustic heron]

Sorry, head empty no thoughts. I reread your comment; have your tried looking in Star Collector's broken boat?

[rustic heron]

Plagiarizing and discrediting our work.

[keen shore]

I haven’t, let me check real quick (I often forget the starlight desert even exists)

[frigid tinsel]

how to start fires in lore chat

[tulip aspen]

lapis, your theory is cool, but being not related to the concept art at all isn't a good thing imo

i dont like that 70% of the lore lies in the concepts either, but it does

you have to keep in mind this isn't a single, defined, complete story they have at launch; it's a story from the concepts, with the narrative of the game violently ripped put so the story is completely incomprehensible

i said the thing below a long while ago, since you dont want me to put it in quotes for some reason

it's not environmental as moreso as it's now just been stripped down to it's themes

we have to keep in mind, the themes were intended to CREATE the story, but as TGC got closer and closer to launch, they ended up having to strip the game down until it was nothing but themes yet again

with that in mind, you can keep considering your theory but if you truly are applying it to the canonchase i really dont recommend keeping a bias against the concept art, just in case anyone brings up topics from the concept art against your theory

[rustic heron]

I have but one question: why would a company publish confidential data about the lore of the game they're still developing for? If you have a good answer for that, I'll accept concept art is a valid source of truth.

[keen shore]

Update I can’t remember where the boat guy is

[rustic heron]

There are major legal issues with releasing concepts of a game; the IP can be stolen and used, there's notions of competiton especially in the mobile space, among many other legal issues regarding ownership of the ideas and copyright issues.

Unused concepts that have no bearing on the final product would be perfectly okay to release. Concepts core to the lore of the game and are being used for future development are not.

An additional question, Jam. Why not just release the lore bible then, if they have no problem releasing actual concept art? They have one, and if the concepts are key to narrative development, you might as well release parts of the lore bible anyway.

[keen shore]

I have found the boat man but my efforts are fruitless. Their boat just has the normal darkstone slots on it :(

[rustic heron]

Pity. Are there any other places with broken boats?

[keen shore]

I’m checking isle, wasteland, and valley tomorrow to make sure. Checking vault is probably useless considering it’s underground and as far as I remember, there aren’t any boats on display there

This singular painted boat is bothering me so much. Why is it there. Why is there an entirely different boat just… sitting there…

[rustic heron]

The intern made it

[keen shore]

It does kind of look like someone tried to make a darkstone boat, but then couldn’t find the crystal, so gave up halfway through and just painted it on instead

[half shadow]

hey I’m just curious, have any of the devs or writers come out and directly said something like “Yeah, we crafted an entire story and totally different game at first, but the closer we got to launch, we decided to strip everything down and just ship the game in an uncompleted state?” or is that just something we think happened due to the old Light Awaits game concept from before COTL

[rustic heron]

I'm curious too. How are you justifying this claim?

[half shadow]

i think i’ve heard a few people mention it in regards to the state of COTL at launch vs the playable Light Awaits content but i dunno much about what light awaits was like other than small bits

[rustic heron]

I doubt it was made to be "unfinished", but rather retooled to fit a mobile extended-release model. The base game has missing parts in the lore, filled in with seasons over time. This allows for better marketability and artificial scarcity of items prompting investment in "passes" to unlock the content.

[tulip aspen]

if they published it it's intentionally not confidential lmao

they like giving bread crumbs outside-of-game, we see that time and time again

just as i can't fully confirm concept art doesn't reference lore, you can't fully deny it

[half shadow]

i’d also say in regards to concept art and IP that i’m pretty sure most of the concept art we can access now were released after the launch of the game, meaning that the IP had already been claimed and all of the legal stuff was in order. they then wouldn’t have to worry about somebody stealing their concept art as they could then utilize their legal assets. this is probably a simplification and I might be wrong but as a longtime MMO player, concept art releases after content is added to the game can be common, even if the concept art reveals things about the ingame content. so while i don’t think we can consider any of the concept art canonical, things could theoretically still be legit. the biggest example in my mind comes to things like the color theory charts

[rustic heron]

I can because the employees under TGC sign confidentiality contracts, like every company on the planet does.

[tulip aspen]

yes i know how NDAs work xD

and they dont release the lore bible because what they give us are bits and pieces

[tulip aspen]

no, its because the tom zhao concepts show they had a literal full timeline in workshop https://preview.redd.it/30j8jhecfae61.jpg?auto=webp&s=640347c793b27fefca6be29d349ffabbd233e1b8

[tulip aspen]

...so does that imply the bits and pieces ash and the rest give us after launch are against NDA?

clearly there are things planned to be released as bits and pieces

[half shadow]

oh yes I’ve seen that. but I gotta admit, I don’t see how it’s proof that the game was “stripped” before launch. the core game in Sky doesn’t contradict any of this backstory. we don’t get told this timeline in Sky directly but this could easily still be canonical. it might be that we weren’t ever meant to have the full timeline of events explained to us ingame - this is just helpful history for the development team to take into account when creating the world of the game.

[rustic heron]

Bit and pieces of already released content that are of little consequence to these larger questions. Anything having to do with the king and what Eden is has been avoided constantly, or at best has vague hints. Ash's "hints" are just random facts about spirits that could apply to anyone or anything.

It's not bits and pieces. It's inconsequential. There are even pinned posts, in this channel, dissuading discussion on finding out the actual lore.

[tulip aspen]

and before someone says they didnt even start developing that timeline and it was just on paper, no

there are bits and pieces of the prince, and the original narrative everywhere

iirc light awaits uses words a lot more, and I'd be led to believe there were a lot of words in original development stages of the game, and it all got taken out

[tulip aspen]

no the story wasnt stripped from sky, the narrative was, as ive said before

they removed us being able to actually comprehend the story, yet it still 'exists'

[frigid tinsel]

Zhao can probably publish his stuff because he no longer works for TGC and his NDAs may have expired

[rustic heron]

The works are likely still owned by TGC, and they hold the rights to where those works are published. Zhou's concepts were just that: concepts. They ended up being used in part, but to hold his concepts as canon isn't lore. It's just blind hope.

[tulip aspen]

thats true.

i still dont see concept art being invalid though, your "death to the authors" and "we need a simple concept that answers everything and retcons the pre-launch story" is just a frustrated loremoth allegory we've heard time and time again and will continue to hear into the far far future

yes it hasn't found any contradictions besides writing-appeal wise, but to reject the concept art is just-

i just ask you to see why it sounds absurd

[tulip aspen]

nah thats not how it works he made that art for TGC it's theirs now; he needs their permission to publish, no martin o donnell moments here lolol

[rustic heron]

I'm gonna say this as gently as I can. You're not lorefinding here. You're just making headcanons to share. This might as well be a fanfiction chatspace.

[half shadow]

they could’ve easily just decided to change the vehicle of the narrative from telling (aka using words like character dialogue or narration) to showing, which is how Sky mainly operates via methods like environmental storytelling. they’re both perfectly valid ways of telling a story in a video game. if you’ve ever played the game INSIDE, it’s another example of a story being told without a narrative, but it’s still a complete and pretty coherent story. it doesn’t answer every question as to why and how events played out, but it doesn’t have to. I think Sky is kind of like that. as for this taking away the ability to actually comprehend the story, I think I disagree with that. the story of Sky is about our Skykid’s journey through the kingdom to Eden. we experience this, and are able to come to understand what possibly occurred to cause it. I think it’s still perfectly comprehendible considering what the game’s focus is on: the skykid, not the history of the Prince or Eden. this could be a difference of opinion though. Sky is clearly meant to be a casual chill game people can play on their phone and use as a way to chat with friends and dress up avatars. I can easily see why they could have decided to make the story less obviously spelled out in order to have it appeal to the much more broad average player. but I don’t think that it means the game is devalued or it’s story was “removed.”

[pastel brook]

Fineeee, gather around the bonfire, I'm going to play a lullaby for you!

[frigid tinsel]

Frankly, I find this arguing over whether devs intended how much "story" or perspective in the game being relevant or substantial to other's theories entirely nonproductive and just gonna make yall bitter.
don't ping me cos i'm tired.

[rustic heron]

Yeah, I'm pretty bitter right now, and not in any state of mind to apologize for it. I'll take my "frustrated loremoth allegory" self out of here. Peace.

[half shadow]

sorry that’s a ton of rambling, i hope it makes sense lol. yeah i think it’s just a matter of opinion for the most part. like i find the story totally coherent even without any concept art or deep lore about the past shown in the game but it might not feel that way to another player and that’s just due to a difference in perspective

[tulip aspen]

no its not blind hope

we have no reason to believe they completely rejected that timeline over your blessing theory

ive said that time and time again (minus acknowledging your theory because this was before you became active )

they definitely smoothened up some narratives like the creatures turning mad, the infinite cycle of ancestor rebirth, and the elders being mortal ancestors, but they have no reason to completely interject it all with some completely new narrative which id argue isnt obvious at all to dig up and connect together with red string

[tulip aspen]

yes that's the point, it became visual themes that you feel rather than comprehensive narratives, but logically it's still all the same story

i never said the story was removed.
I'd argue however that the skykid is only now focused on because they removed the narrative (but not the existence of the king)

id also note that TGC would do that intentionally rather than accidentally like usual; removing the king from the visible narrative and in turn focusing completely on the player

[tulip aspen]

honestly that's pretty gentle lol ive heard worse, this has all been worse

neither of us are making headcanons, and both of us are making valid theories with no debunks between them except the concept controversy, and my concern with you discarding concept art doesnt change that, but im sorry i offended you

you really didnt ask for my opinion today so i shouldnt have given it in turn, so it sucks that id be so aggressively denying

[harsh pecan]

Dang what’s the topic

[half shadow]

i’d say the narrative is still comprehensible to the extent it’s meant to be, though. theoretically it could be the same exact story with no changes whatsoever, zhao’s timeline could be 100% canon, and all that changed from Light Awaits was the decision to favor the story of the player while leaving everything else vague, but still understandable to those players who are wanting to hunt down the small details. the story of the king and the big question over how everything happened could be something that is actually still planned content to include as we get more seasons that slowly add in blanks and enrich the world more. even glancing at concept art, it’s not really clear that the King or Prince were ever meant to be focal characters in the story beyond a few drawings of how they could look like. concept artists do a tooooooon of things that never get seen. if it helps to clear anything up i basically believe that we obviously shouldn’t consider concept art as canon evidence, we can still use it when theorizing under that condition because there is an amount of what is included in the concept art that i think, personally, can be considered as the truth because it’s the same as whats ingame. the clearest example i can think of is this piece of concept art showing the color relationships and what the colors represent in sky. like, this is what’s directly presented in the game in regards to the color theory.

[hushed steeple]

I have my idea of how the story is. So far I think everything continuously fits pretty nicely into it. Im comfortable and contented. Curiosity satiated. Its more about how interesting ideas can get.

Krill are plants that grow out of what used to be one of sky kingdoms moons? Ok!

Oh. Or weird development trivia or weird creature designs. I eat those up!

[half shadow]

Admittedly I don’t think I’m explaining myself very well, I feel like I could talk out what I mean but finding the right words to type are difficult so sorry if my point is hard to parse. I think overall I’m on the same page with you Kamilico, for me the story is pretty much locked down as to the basics of what happened and it’s about filling in the details and little steps along the way

also i used the visual relationship image instead of the color theory image goddangit i’m tired

[hushed steeple]

Yeah. Sometimes I get tired of anatomy or exact spirit culture talk. Since I don’t think they where actually meant to have answers or that much thinking put into them. But really, filling in those little gaps, is the true reason for lorechat aside from people who are new and don’t have their own picture of the sky history yet

[tulip aspen]

the timeline makes them (king) a crucially focal point, but yea that's def all we've got

[half shadow]

That’s kind of why I get so hyped about the smaller stories that fit inside of the Big Major Story involving the king and the destruction of the world, case in point being the story of the Abyss area that is now my endless fascination I am devoting my entire brain to. The Abyss story in particular could be more connected to the Big Story in that it might show us an example of how the creatures of Sky work or the technological advancements of the kingdom ending up in failure like I posited early today, but overall it happens in their own little sphere without direct involvement of the King or a direct inciting event leading to the destruction of Eden.*

*i don’t watch beta because i don’t want to be spoiled so this is an assumption but WHO KNOWS ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN but i think this is right

maybe the king shows up in the fifth quest and rides a sea monster into the center of Eden i have no idea

[harsh pecan]

That’ll be cool to see in-game

[boreal nebula]

Yes, also in bells, but I also suspect it's an alloy of gold and copper, cause it's kind of orange and it would be a perfect circuit/conductive material (but it could just be a stylist choice to make it more vibrant)

[rigid mural]

Honestly I get being frustrated concept art is seen as the absolute truth, but what we get from it is very much either still vague or confirms what we already know.

Thinking about the separation between rich and poor habitations in Valley, which is kind of further proven in Dreams where most of the season is said to be set in a humble town.
Or the metadata (it's basically the picture's label, not hacking) which calls the prairie bird nest buildings "creature sanctuaries".

[rigid mural]

⏫ ⏫ ⏫
pretty much my thoughts too. It's going to be hard to go deeper than "light was extracted from light creatures to make/power artificial stars" for example if you don't want to imagine the details yourself because it wouldn't be canon.

[half shadow]

I shouldn’t be awake right now but yeah Vela you nailed exactly what I was trying to say. Not all of the concept art is applicable to the ingame content, but some parts of it are as actual things that are physically in the game, like the Valley concept art applying to Dreams

like the statements “The concept art should not be trusted as 100% canon” and “Some concept art contains obvious canon facts that mirror what is present in the game” can coexist

[late wasp]

TL;DR (all of you lol!)

Anyways, the Ancestors do use the expressions with special effects.
So Cannoneer knowing "Medium" Fire Magic is canon. 🔥

[rigid mural]

I like to work by themes and symbolism tbh, for my personal interpretation. Which is probably how a lot of us work lbr, it's just that some may not realise their personal bias has an effect on their theories.

Yeah, Isle wasn't always a desert, but given its association with birth and deserts often symbolising potential or the lack thereof (up to you if you interpret vast empty spaces as blank canvases, or if you see mirages as just illusions), I like to think there's a reason these two themes are put together.
So perhaps Isle was like a gateway to the kingdom, or a kind of crossroads where not much besides the temple and docks was permanent (see the tents in the trailer).

I just feel like the "I'm the most right because I only use 100% canon sources" debate is a bit... uhhh... childish ? We do need people like this to not fly away with fanfiction, but I just feel like this kind of draconian selection of sources might be counterproductive if overdone, since the devs state again and again that this game is up to interpretation. Which makes sense in the context where even the aesop of the story is unclear...

[pine night]

Biology of a Child of Light ( really just something I wanted to put together, 70% of the info is prob inaccurate)

[solar sequoia]

Totally making this up, but
Abyss was where the krills were created, after testing on mantas. We need season of bugs to explain their shape

[sharp urchin]

I have a theory abt krills creation they krills were once large fluffy dragons of light very similar to that of the classic Chinese Dragon after the ancestors of the sky kids began testing with new methods to maintain energy for things like possible light sorces such as the Spotlight or the Lamp there was an accident the facility exploded causing mass amounts of Waste,Chemicals, and a dark material with an unknown origin to cover the former Oasis turning it into a dark filthy and horrific land the dragons adapted over time to continue to live in these horrid conditions after the accident they hated the children of light because they caused the dragons pain destroying their home land and them
If you look at the map of the wasteland there are many structures that look similar to that of a facilities like the large tunnels that have the black water coming from them

[solar sequoia]

Krills were created. We can agree on that. They seem to be a Dark version of the elder manta from vault. There was clearly testing done in abyss, and there is an elder krill in there

[late wasp]

we might get philosophical here
but this is the subject that led to the idea of a soul or consciousness.

The Body (Material) and the Light (Spiritual), these two are clear like how you described it. But then there are times when we move and act without Light (Eden, whenever we lose all light)

Meaning the "counsciousness" of a Sky Kid is not their Light. One might be inclined to think the "consciousness" of a Sky Kid is in the Body then, BUT...

In the Eden final cutscene we also see other Sky kids in Light-form abandon their corpses to fly to Orbit, as you do too. Showing that your "consciousness" is also not located in the Body.

Finally showing that Consciousness/Soul is a third "immortal" element independent from Body or Light. Making a Sky Kid be:

1. Body
2. Light
3. Soul/Consciousness

[dawn reef]

I think the elder krill was sealed

[sharp urchin]

Yeah but based on the size of the mantas it wouldn't make to much sense (not to be rude)
The mantas have very large wings
(well they look like wings atleast)
And krill are long creatures with a very bug-like structure they have a visible exo skeleton and they have similar legs to that of a centipede altho testing could have been the cause it most likely wasn't on a manta due to the difference in structure it wouldn't make full sense
and the leviathan is most likely and attempt at reverting the damage their ancestors have caused only to end up furthering its corruption

[solar sequoia]

The elder krill is roughly the same size as the elder manta in vault

[late wasp]

Headsup: during livestream TGC confirmed that at least the big monster on a mural is not a krill.

[dawn reef]

Why is it sealed?

[solar sequoia]

BECAUSE IT KILLS PEOPLE

[late wasp]

Maybe being sealed in the dark is what turned them into a Dark creature

[silk hinge]

anyone have any idea of where the mini krill in angler's memory is now? i think the spirits fought it together or it just flew away, but why would it go away since there are a lot of light creatures to consume there?

[harsh pecan]

I think they uhhh killed it

[late wasp]

it's probably swimming somewhere, it's a big ocean.
i think of it more like a "shark", it probably ate, and then kept moving.

[silk hinge]

cannoneer prob singlehandedly fought it bc they op

[harsh pecan]

y e s

[sharp urchin]

Ty 👍

[silk hinge]

oo yeah, i assumed they all would stay in one place like the ones in wasteland lol

[sterile echo]

are the seasonal spirit dead tho? just a simple question

[late wasp]

yes. they all ascend to "heaven" at the end

[sharp lichen]

I wake up to 150+ messages but when I’m online the chat is krilled

[frigid tinsel]

Chat is still krilled

Fine I’ll unkrill it.
Saw this in Forest Temple yesterday. What

[hushed steeple]

Hi Lore chat
Has there been any lore beaning recently?

[fiery vapor]

Whats with king krill is what i wanna know

Like they look like those big light whales but corrupt

[tulip aspen]

just one significant message from ash saying that all the answers to what exactly the diamond refineries are and how they work all lie inside treasure reef

[spring oyster]

I have had many thoughts! I noticed that two of the new hairstyles (Commodore and Cannoneer, respectively) have head tattoos - have y'all looked into the various markings/tattoos ancestors have?
Or are these the first?

[white dagger]

the triangles remind me of the pattern on some clothing (like hide 'n seek pioneer's dress), however for the second one i'm not too sure really! my first thought is mantas but mantas have shown up differently in the mural style (think the bird's nest)
i get the feeling i've seen it before but i'm not sure where
also i think its less tattoos and more like shapes either shaved in or shaved out, like a side shave sorta thing

[spring oyster]

Ooooh wait i just looked above and Commodore's markings are identical to the one @frigid tinsel shared! But that's forest, and the Abyss crew is from Wasteland. Hmmm

[white dagger]

oHhHH 👁️👁️

[spring oyster]

Hmm maybe, but the markings are different to the hair color, and it goes pretty far onto the face for Cannoneer's actual sprite for example:

[white dagger]

ah fair
though i was sorta thinking of the stuff on the sides (not the mask itself), kinda like how when you shave the side of ur head the skin color slightly comes through and makes the hair look like it has less opacity (especially with dark hair)
so for this its just reverse ^^

[spring oyster]

Definitely see where you're coming from, I have had side shaves and undercuts before. Not ruling it out!

[hushed steeple]

Oooo
It sounds like we might be getting closer to finding out how and why Sky fell!

[tulip aspen]

im p sure its just mantas but if yall out it's actually something else thatll be cool

maybe birds, it looks like the flight emblem

[white dagger]

i think itd be neat if a season came along with that symbol as the main symbol kinda like how season of flight symbol popped up before (like in birds nest) and it was full of lore too!

[spring oyster]

You think Alasdairs' image (since the window is shaped like a jar) might refer to 'bottling' manta energy? Or of butterflies escaping?

[tulip aspen]

sorry, could you reshare the image?

[spring oyster]

This guy @tulip aspen 🙂

[frigid tinsel]

oh yea, those are definitely tattoos

[white dagger]

[tulip aspen]

ohhhh yeah those look identical!!!

[frigid tinsel]

I’m just imaging skykids giving each other light tattoos

[spring oyster]

Now I'm very tempted to request a Talented Tattooist ancestor

I'm gonna look back through all the ancestors for other head tattoos but gotta finish making cakes first

[formal skiff]

yessss

[spring oyster]

Ok, haven't slogged through every ancestor YET BUT in a look back and (other than making me review all the really cool cosmetics I've missed) there are no other head markings/tattoos that appear in Cosmetics before Abyss. The closest thing are the Season of Assembly's painted (?) masks (which I wasn't here for so not sure if there was story relevance):

[frigid tinsel]

lightseekers also had painted masks

[spring oyster]

Ooh yes i missed that!

[rigid mural]

i think thats bc the mask also gives triangle tats/markings

[spring oyster]

Right, should've used the expression photo for that (this and the last bout of SS c/o the sky:CoTL wiki - credit where credit's due):

They do seem to hover off the 'skin' but I think that's just a rendering thing 🤔

[frigid tinsel]

the hovering may just be the computer-generated models. a lot of light textures actually hover above the surface, like cave murals, though they're intended to be on the surface

the question lore theorists struggle with is what's true in-universe, what's a gameplay mechanic, and what's a game limitation?

[tulip aspen]

yee there's a bit of interest running with murals and if them hovering could really be 'intentional' as 'magic' or just them not caring to paste it properly on the wall

[rigid mural]

it's probably to avoid them clipping into the structures they're on; the muralist spirit seems to draw them tho so I prefer to go the simplest way and say they were drawn like irl murals

[tulip aspen]

they are sometimes shown as hidden until revealed by the ceremonial candles (white candles)

maybe there's a special version of them that can be hidden until re-revealed by the ceremony candles

[frigid tinsel]

yea that's what I'm thinking. either it's intentional to prevent clipping or it was some other computer limitation the devs couldn't correct, perhaps because the murals and the walls may be generated as separate entities, so they got over it by making the players view them in ways that the murals appear on the walls.
this may be the same with the tattoos.

[rigid mural]

maybe it's like invisible ink (the kid friendly kind that's actually lemon juice) where something reveals them (such as heat from a flame or a radiator) if they are exposed to it for a bit
like at first when drawn with it's shiny, but over time it loses energy and becomes dormant, until a source of light reveals the drawings again

[keen shore]

This is a manta symbol! It’s supposed to mean that when you open the cages to the sides mantas come out/this was a manta only harvesting area :3c

[half shadow]

Ooooh, maybe the ink or paint is infused with Light magic or something to make them glow and appear once candles are lit

I have this one really lovely inking pen I bought at a con at an artist’s booth that is a pretty gold made up of sparkling glitter and that’s what I’m imagining lol. it’s so pretty I have yet to actually use it for any art projects because I don’t want to waste it so every now and then I just take it out and doodle on my hand or a scrap paper piece and admire how sparkly it is before putting it back

[spring oyster]

light-activated ink seems totally legit for in universe 🤔 IRL there are those UV-reactive 'hidden message inks' that were all the rage when i was a kid

[jolly anchor]

Hidden message inks were fun doe
But that does seem legit!

[keen shore]

Late to adding this but additional fun fact is that (to my knowledge) this is the only refinery out of 3 the symbol is present in, suggesting that the two in wasteland used creatures other than mantas. Since there’s no abandoned pots scattered around reef or the main wasteland refinery they probably didn’t use butterflies, either

This quick observation plus the fact that krills are only present in the refineries that used creatures larger than mantas…

[half shadow]

me going up to the abyss guide every time i go back to home to check how many hours are left before the fourth quest drops, even though i know that won’t make it faster:

[tulip aspen]

yeeee thats what i was thinking too

[keen shore]

I totally think it’s like invisible ink that reactivates when our light gets close (hence the candles for easy relighting under some of the older ones) although this begs the question. Could we give ourselves permanent glowy body paint with no fear of it going dim due to inner light (I want this in a cosmetic so bad, body paint on character designs is so fun)

[formal skiff]

Oh yes- I want skid tattoos-

[sage isle]

skid tattos? you have my attention

[tulip aspen]

we're working magic here folks

[rigid mural]

yeah, at the end of eden and on our way to orbit

[hushed steeple]

I seen all the many many fanarts with their blood being glowing light

We technically got tattoos with abyss but not glowy ones.

[compact shale]

mmm glowing light blood

I guess it's understandable given how some may think that we're light-filled vessels

Theoretically being underwater may or may not cause you to "bleed" from every orifice but that might be too mature

[keen shore]

I don’t think skykids have anything that can be compared to blood (as in, is a liquid flowing throughout the body) because the light inside us seems to be just… normal light. Otherwise it would drip out of the holes on our chest, forehead, and eyes. Probably just dissipates

[keen shore]

Love the implication that we’re glowing in orbit not because that’s our soul and we are dead, but because someone dumped a bucket of mural paint directly on top of us and we can’t get it off

[harsh pecan]

I’m trying not to imagine that

[compact shale]

We can bend it to look like it tho

we cry fancy

[keen shore]

Wonder if there’s an issue some skykids are created with where their inner light IS liquid so they have to constantly recharge to avoid death from it dripping out everywhere…

[frigid tinsel]

if blood-like light can only manifest if manipulated, then it isn't true, neutral-state blood

[compact shale]

guess so

that's probably the case

[rigid mural]

skykids on their way to orbit b like:

[frigid tinsel]

something I think would be true in-universe but not in-game cos that would be hella impossible to render that if skykids were to "bleed," it would be their light – neutral and winged light – coming out of their injuries like sunbeams. mostly cos it seems logical but also cos I think that looks cool.

[compact shale]

and it blinds the injurors too!

[keen shore]

Skykid in golden wasteland: man, I can barely see anything, and my candle light isn’t enough to light it. Plus I’m out of glow spells… guess there’s only one thing I can do [stabs self]

[frigid tinsel]

tbh as long as they have light, I believe skids can heal themselves quickly so if they were to break open and quickly heal closed, they'd be like a flash bomb.

[keen shore]

Skykid functions: flash bomb, campfire, oven, flashlight, friend :+], portable lighter

Now that I said that, I realize I have a great need for a picture of a group of spirits/skykids using another skykid to roast marshmallows over

[frigid tinsel]

really all you have to do if if get one cackling and they'll summon fire

[rigid mural]

i think it's possible to roast marshmallows over a candle, so if light candies are a thing...

[compact shale]

I have a headcanon that if skykids crack their shell, their light will draw material from the ground to repair it

[frigid tinsel]

skykid holding a marshmallow in one hand, their candle in another, roasting the marshmallow as it gets sticky all over their hands

[compact shale]

I have a comic about Cackling Cannoneer roasting fish with the power of their

As for how they summon fire? Simple, they've stolen some orange light before.

[frigid tinsel]

that's a neat idea. I was thinking that the shell would stretch and extend itself to cover the wound, but now I have in mind skykids who had been injured multiple times having a patchwork of different colored materials.

[compact shale]

Yeah that would be cool

The best results are from lying down in Prairie soil (it's probably the most fertile) and worst results are when the crack is patched with straight-up sand

[frigid tinsel]

skykid with a leg made of moss

[keen shore]

I feel like the worst results would probably be more along the lines of getting hurt in Eden and accidentally healing yourself with darkness flakes
(now that I think about it, this might be what happens in the middle of the storm)

[compact shale]

either that or the light can't find anything to heal with so it just festers and you suffer

[frigid tinsel]

this is precious

[formal skiff]

I love the lil art bits you post here

[keen shore]

Images that make you smile uncontrollably when you look at them :-)

[rigid mural]

i really like the abyss masks because i adore the idea of skykids having a different color or "skin" patterns depending on where they landed and what happened to them.
Skykid from the isle with sandy pink stripes
Skykid from the prairie with really dark colors like fertile soil
Skykid from the forest that has moss growing on them...

[frigid tinsel]

skykid who landed in Forest

[rigid mural]

gonna throw you in a field of crabs for posting this cursed picture

[harsh pecan]

LMAO WHAT IS THAT

[frigid tinsel]

it's a chia pet in the shape of groot from Guards of the Galaxy

[livid pelican]

Groot

[harsh pecan]

OHHH GROOT

[frigid tinsel]

would yall rather I posted the shrek one?

[harsh pecan]

Guys say yes I wanna see

[frigid tinsel]

also a skykid who landed in Forest

[keen shore]

I really like the idea of a skykid having veins of stone (or maybe even precious metal) running throughout their outer core… extremely mad that this idea didn’t pop up before I lost my stylus so I could draw it

[harsh pecan]

LMAOOOOOOOOOO

[frigid tinsel]

Vela replies to my comments with blessed art that took time and effort, I response to theirs with cursed chia pets, I feel bad

[rigid mural]

sky shrek season when

[foggy lotus]

i love how the lore chat is 50% serious and the rest is just this

[keen shore]

The frustration of having -10 sources to base our lore off of gets to us sometimes 💔

[frigid tinsel]

a skykid who landed in Starlight Desert covered in glittery flecks of lavender sand.
a skykid who crashed through landed in Vault made of blue goldstone-like material, their maskless face like staring into space, or lapis lazuli with flecks of gold.

[keen shore]

This caption is torturing me. It reads like I should be able to make a pun out of it, but when I can try all I can think of is “that’s a skrek”

[boreal nebula]

They don' t seem light creature per se , Cause they don't recharge our light like Jellyfish and Mantas Can (birds and butterflies, but they are not acquatic) ... yet all of them show to keep having either white & gold and orange colors , vibrant colors and diamonds patterns of some kind (like koifish sort of modelled out of a diamond polygon even if they lack any diamond pattern on their skins)

So for sure they are not dark creatures . Maybe they are simply on neutral-light kind of spectrum

There is a concept art somewhere which shows us sky kids as the middle ground between dark and light on the specturm

[keen shore]

If you’re from wasteland, do the cracks in your body get filled with sand, toxic sludge, or bones?

[frigid tinsel]

bone maybe if they were around bone. prob not the sludge cos it isn't quite solid.

[foggy lotus]

i just thought of shapeshifter for some reason

[compact shale]

Maybe sand. It would probably just crack again and again until it gets filled with something better.

[frigid tinsel]

ik i hold that skykids don't feel pain unless it's darkness but ouch

[keen shore]

I have never been tempted to make a skykid oc before the concept of “skykid whose cracks are filled with stone that has a glowing mural painted on it” popped into my head

[frigid tinsel]

like those golden broken chinese plates?

[formal skiff]

Wow imagine not having at least five skid ocs lol

[compact shale]

oooh hell yeah that'd be cool

[foggy lotus]

skykids with cracks filled with gold/something shiny

[keen shore]

No like. You can see the stone through the mural designs, but the pattern itself is broken up between scars

[frigid tinsel]

correction, Japanese style of repairing called Kintsugi

[frigid tinsel]

screams in fanfic writer

[foggy lotus]

screams in tiny brain making up too many aus

[harsh pecan]

||I have none||

[formal skiff]

screams in has spent too much time on my sky ocs

[keen shore]

Cries in too self conscious about my own art to make any

[livid pelican]

I only have two

[tulip aspen]

oh my Megan its perfect

i can see the meme animatic now

[tulip aspen]

it looked like the bird was holding up a gun lol

[frigid tinsel]

i say i have two but those are the ones i emulate in-game, ignoring all the other characters

[tulip aspen]

vela's lore meme page when

[rigid mural]

shrekmate

[formal skiff]

I have two I play as in-game regularly who have detailed personalities/backstories, one who I haven’t fleshed out yet but do exist as in-game occasionally, and two who I’ve developed but don’t yet have the cosmetics for

[tulip aspen]

what the shrek

[frigid tinsel]

chchchchia

[rigid mural]

headcanon spirits have memes

[keen shore]

Fun fact about this image. Laidback pioneer had to carefullybalance on a ladder to reach such heights

[foggy lotus]

how u do these so fast

[rigid mural]

Proph QG is sitting, dw

[livid pelican]

I'm theorizing the scavengers of treasure reef died trying to save a member.

[compact shale]

yeah vela how

[keen shore]

Vela has several goblins under their desk that they do not feed unless they quickly draw images for them

Every time a finished piece is created the goblins receive a single piece of cheese and must fight over it

[frigid tinsel]

and yet they still have the lean and stretch to get up to the prophecy questgiver's head

[compact shale]

WAFO on that ig...

[livid pelican]

WAFO?

[rigid mural]

bold of you to assume i need goblins
(i use paint, quick to open, and varying thickness in line gives enough variety to the picture to look more polished than the usual doodle)

[foggy lotus]

strange how questgiver is the only one without broken mask, maybe they drowned?

[formal skiff]

Plot twist Vela is actually the muralist from the ark. They know all the lore because they live in the game but they taunt us with tiny fragments. /j

[compact shale]

Wait
And
Find
Out

[livid pelican]

Thanks

[harsh pecan]

Doesn’t Cannoneer have a broken mask?

[rigid mural]

I WISH

[frigid tinsel]

ik there's base-game spirits who we see die or an implied to have died in their memories, but are there any seasonal spirits who we see their fates?

[formal skiff]

One day

[keen shore]

The fact that you were so quick to answer proves me correct. I know the goblin filled truth /j

[compact shale]

I don't think we'll see too many... erm... fates, this is a kid-friendly game after all

[rigid mural]

questgiver is wearing the same mask as the angler afaik

[harsh pecan]

Vela give us the lore 😭

[formal skiff]

G i v e

[foggy lotus]

agh, dang i checked and that was true

[frigid tinsel]

gestures to "Fainting" Warrior: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[formal skiff]

(what does afaik mean?)

[keen shore]

The abyss spirits washed up on a beach with no consistent source of food other than fish and no fresh water. They totally either died of dehydration/starvation or … yeah

[formal skiff]

RIP

[compact shale]

Yeah, but I don't think we'll see it that often. :/

[rigid mural]

"As Far As I Know"

[foggy lotus]

tearful light miner:

[compact shale]

jsfdnbnganghdruewhghgsdbgdn

[frigid tinsel]

find it appropriate that i'm listening to the Eden death soundtrack rn

[compact shale]

what's the song called

[frigid tinsel]

Exhale: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsGDdaQbkrQ
it's actually very soothing

[compact shale]

ah. it's That song. I've seen it before.

[livid pelican]

||Like... When most of their friends are gone and all of what's left is the Abyss guide and the Ceasing Commodore, the captain commanded her to stay on the boat and sail away if he never comes back up.||

||She hoped and prayed that the Ceasing Commodore comes back and starved to death waiting or the sadder option, discovered that everyone is dead and she decides to join in.||

[compact shale]

dUDE

[spring oyster]

Or got chomped by Krill Jaws

[tulip aspen]

i only have one and i frankly just imagine the player projection theory being real and we are just simply our Skykids, so i can really see me being my own cryptid bird man

(and i love this artist's interpretation of alts)

WHY ARE THERE TWO OF SAME IMAGE

[foggy lotus]

are you saying that the rest died before?
(too much depesso espresso today☕️)

[formal skiff]

Bro you can’t just make me sad like that

[spring oyster]

Every ancestor we meet is dead aren't they?

We're just the grim reapers ferrying souls to freedom🪦

(EDIT: sorry, last question was rhetorical)

[foggy lotus]

I meant like, they either slowly died or multiple died at the same time

[frigid tinsel]

that's why they're spirits

[boreal nebula]

IMHO there is a misconception about darkstone, maybe that is an old concept which maybe doens't adapt well on the game anymore (or at very least we don't know how much of those sketches and ideas still is canon since that storyline/timeline of darkstone as the kingdom corruption might be outdated)

What I think the crystals (little in the Commodore memories or big underwater) we see in Abyss might underline the neutral role those have. They dont drains us as redstones in Eden!

After all their canon terminology might be highlighted by Tearfull Light Miner's name. Being neutral, blank if you like, might be useful to fill them with or let them reflext some of colored Lights spectrum when charged or used to store (blessings... IF this new theory might be a good hunch, I'd wish to read more about it, when I have the time)

In fact these crystal resource we collect everywhere around realms looks like clear crystals (cut for their desired function, big or small) and they glow only by reflecting our flame. I wonder if the redstones in Eden are just overcharged with whatever happened during the catastrophy and also wonder why there are blue or neutral crystals on the first petried sky kid we encounter there

I wonder if Light Crystals are sentient life (like Kyber Crystals in Star Wars, the cores of lightsabers) which are red because in a overcharge agony themselves or if they simply are reflecting the tragedy that scourged the 7th realm. What if that blue/neutral crystal on the first petrified has stopped being harmful to others because that fallen sky kid shared his agony and by sacrifiing themself was able nullify that Light Crystal pain (sort of like the hug we give to Shiny Boy)

[livid pelican]

||The other gang died trying to save a member. I can only assume that it's the cackling cannoneer.||

||Based on the quest, the cackling cannoneer gets even more envious that we are catching up to them. They want to find more and ended up getting stuck.||

||One by one, everyone tried getting to them.||

||And then there was 2 left.||

[compact shale]

mm myes, ANGSt

[foggy lotus]

That’s exactly what i ment

[livid pelican]

Well... Yes

I think we're reliving the abyss guide's memories. The what if that would set them free.

[foggy lotus]

ok we’re getting more wholesome now

[half shadow]

everybody was talking about skykid variations depending where they land like an hour ago but I need to chime in with my addition now:

a skykid that landed in Treasure Reef but they’re just dripping water and wet sand

[compact shale]

Yeah, maybe this is about Abyss Guide's wish

[livid pelican]

Yup

[frigid tinsel]

could you at least spoiler this and the other message for... yknow? it threw me in a loop and I'd rather others not get caught in it too.

[formal skiff]

Yeah it did that for me as well. I was gonna ask that you spoiler it earlier but fsr my brain decided I didn’t have the authority.

[compact shale]

dudeee is this speculation or what

[tulip aspen]

it likely is
i think it always is about the guide's wish, after all, the "you've fulfilled this ancestor's wish" is still there

[compact shale]

is it just the guides that have wishes or is it all seasonal spirits?

[livid pelican]

I'll try

[wet sorrel]

Some of them by old age some of them by krill and some of them no one knows

[lofty void]

hi lore chat

[keen shore]

I have various grim headcanon about various spirit deaths but am just going to keep them to myself because of how dark they are (plus my original message with one got deleted, so probably a sign)

[formal skiff]

You can do it by putting || around the message

[steep prawn]

!textspoiler

[pastel brook]

Here are some ways you can spoiler-tag your messages:
• Type "/spoiler" at the beginning of your message
• Highlight your text → right-click or tap on it → select "Mark as spoiler"
• Type "||" on both sides of your text ||like this||

[livid pelican]

I did it

[formal skiff]

Thank you!

[compact shale]

I have spirit headcanons but most of them aren't that angsty (does Dancing Performer being a poor jobless musician count as angst)

[livid pelican]

I thought that the spoilers are at Eden and isn't this a spoiler channel?

[half shadow]

It wasn’t that, it was the mention of taking one’s life, which is understandably a bit of a sensitive subject

[lofty void]

To a broke person like me, yes

[livid pelican]

Ah I see, my bad

[compact shale]

Beta isn't allowed here in this chat

[bright portal]

I've been meaning to ask a lore questions, does anyone have guesses on which race (flying & sliding) belongs to which elder?