lore-discussion-spoilers

[boreal nebula]

And if they both could fase through objects... Then why krills didn't enter Vault?

||My guess, it's just a game mechanics, like chibi falling is not canon||

[half shadow]

that makes sense! i get its different in english than other languages

[boreal nebula]

Who said I wasn't... ?

PSTD of the time before there was a skip bitton for those cutscenese

Cozy... Is used so much unlike its purpose .. it should be Similar to

Instead of

[pastel brook]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/593565781166391316/832872714967842826/Untitled90_20210416150354.png

[keen shore]

Does anyone know what phrase triggers the bot to say that or is it just timed to say that randomly in this chat

[boreal nebula]

Yes.. yes, it is deep

[boreal nebula]

I don't think it's a phrase

After all it waited alot seconds before popping out

[foggy lotus]

so.. are creatures of light (mantas, skykids, and birds) attracted to bell chimes?
bc if iremember right, in Flight there was a quest that had you to retrieve bellchimes from birds/mantas bc they stole them.
and when we first play the game, we had to go follow the bell's ringing from the temple

[rustic heron]

The only thing Cannoneer can't shoot is Skybot ... yet.

[foggy lotus]

they will get there

eventually

[nova geyser]

If Vault’s built into a mountain then it could be that the krill just plain don’t know it’s there

[foggy lotus]

krills sight might be based on light, and the vault is the only indoor realm.
you might be right about that

[late wasp]

entrance to the Vault is where GW Elder gravestone is at.
I've mentioned in the past, to open that gate you need to light the crystal outside. ||(hinting that it wasn't a civil war, since it makes no sense to leave the lever to open the gates outside)||

beyond that point there are no "holes" for krill to enter.

[late wasp]

and we all love cannoneer

[rigid mural]

dont forget

[frigid tinsel]

accurate lmao

[keen shore]

Tag yourself I’m the vaguely human amorphous blob in the middle left

[rustic heron]

I'm Ash

[harsh plover]

[frigid tinsel]

the lurkers

[rustic heron]

To all lurkers: Cannoneer has you in their sites.

[rigid mural]

(I do think some deeper topics are worth exploring, i just think that the separation between the two is funny)

[keen shore]

Me overanalyzing the shape and weight of a spear knowing literally no one else but me cares

[frigid tinsel]

me going off about god and anatomy

[raw crypt]

me adding pointless comments

[late wasp]

me taking earwax lore serious and actually building arguments and evidences for it

[rustic heron]

Me making metaphysical commentary.

[frigid tinsel]

skykids are full of wax /hj

[keen shore]

Sorry guys I have to exile Sophos from this chat due to mentioning that which should not be named ||(earwax lore)||. Goodbye and I hope you learn from your mistake /j

[raw crypt]

[rustic heron]

Haha yeah sayonara ( @late wasp give me the DEEPEST LORE about earwax)

[harsh plover]

daaaamn hohohoho

[harsh pecan]

Lol true

[harsh plover]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HEY HAHAHA

[weak osprey]

XD

[harsh plover]

HAHAHA THATS A GOOD MEME

[half shadow]

they dont have ears

[late wasp]

LMAO

[frigid tinsel]

skids do have ears but they don't have ear holes

[weak osprey]

But seriously though, technically skykids are kinda golemns in a way.

No ears, turns into statues when we die, doesn't die normally and doesn't need food. I feel like we're powered by the winged lights we collect

[harsh plover]

but if they are golems why do they sleep?

[frigid tinsel]

specifically, skykids are powered by light. their flame is constant source of light, but if their flame goes out they have winged light to rely on.
but yea, skykids are literally golems

[late wasp]

this is actually a very good counterpoint

[weak osprey]

QUESTION : Has there ever been like a deaf sky kid

[half shadow]

uhhh. well skykids are basically just player avatars

[late wasp]

i play with the game muted so my switch batteries last longer.
so yes

[weak osprey]

They still get tired because their bodies aren't light.

[keen shore]

Okay now you need to leave too /j

[frigid tinsel]

i think they don't need to sleep, but they do anyways, they just have more command over it than biological beings like humans would

[half shadow]

so they dont have a lot of character on their own. dont really have any character

[weak osprey]

Well for me, I dropped my phone once and suddenly I didn't have any audio. Somehow I could only hear something when I wear headphones. So for a while, my sky kid was canonically deaf

[frigid tinsel]

well, they do have character – we the players give them character by playing them. we are skykids

[weak osprey]

Then I designed hearing aids based off the season of flight head accessories

[harsh plover]

noooo

[keen shore]

Small tangent, would the skykid version of a hospital be just a room filled with candles?

Or could you be like “oh no my friend is near death” and chuck them into a burning bonfire to help

[rustic heron]

Skykid hospital is the moon.

[frigid tinsel]

i do think skykids can heal themselves quickly by just having light and naturally repair themselves.
fun fact, you can stop your peer from dying in Eden past the point of no return by deep calling and staying near them.

[weak osprey]

True. The start of every game, all skykids are the same. Basically carbon copies of one another. What differenciates it is how we customise and play with our characters especially after learning about the spirits and exploring a bit, essentially building a personality for our skykids. Bringing them to life.

[harsh plover]

like i said before if they are golems They don't need to sleep, eat, drink, or even breathe, but they do.

[weak osprey]

Essentially, skykids are kinda immortal

[frigid tinsel]

well the word "golem" implies that they're made out of some earthen material, which a lot of us do think their shell is at least made out of.

my pre-Season of Abyss working theory on the composition of a skykid
—clothing, hair, masks & other cosmetics made of light.
—a humanoid physical shell made of some magic-induced earthen material (i.e. clay, ash, or charcoal) that has a hole in the chest.
—this hollow shell is full of light, such as winged light.
—their flame, manifesting as the light in the hole in their chest and held outside their bodies via a red candle.
—their soul, appearing as a blue sparkle.

[keen shore]

For sleeping I imagine it a lot like there’s literal fire inside them. It burns constantly, but for them to be awake and functional, especially powering things that require lots of energy like flight or swimming, it needs to burn very hot and bright. (Partially because it needs to slightly heat the clay so it can actually move) The fire can’t sustain this temperature for long though because it’s exhausting to keep fueled and can melt or damage their outer shell, so they have to sleep a lot to repair their skin-like shell and recharge their flame

[harsh plover]

well but I don't think they are golems

[keen shore]

When under extreme stress or when a fight or flight response gets induced their flame flares even brighter and heats up the area around them (this happens underwater as the flame boils the water around it, producing bubbles) but this can only be sustained for a few minutes at most before they have to stop or risk extreme damage to themselves

[frigid tinsel]

melting skykids... not an image i wanted in my head

[keen shore]

Can you elaborate on what you think they are, then?

[harsh plover]

my reason is this: before dying in eden you can hear some heartbeats, which makes me understand that they have a heart

[keen shore]

I imagine it would never actually get to that bad of a point, because their body would just force them to pass out and repair once it got bad enough, but… who knows

[frigid tinsel]

skid 1: dude you're really hot
skid 2: I am? passes out

[weak osprey]

Vessels. The heartbeat is from the light we contain. When you die, you're presented with one more light. You're completely grey/empty until you hug the light.

[frigid tinsel]

some think this heartbeat is really the flame pulsating under extreme duress

[weak osprey]

My theory is that a sky kid is made up of two beings. The body and the heart

[keen shore]

It seems like we have the same idea as to what they are, just different names for it honestly

[harsh plover]

i think that too

[late wasp]

I can't speak for Azrael, but for me Skykids AND Ancestors are Silicon-based lifeforms.
There is never a debate if the Crystal Gems are golems, and likewise, I don't think we need to call anyone a golem in Sky

[frigid tinsel]

honestly, I've been considering that skykids are functionally similar to Gems.
-nonbiological living beings
-can manifest tangible light
-have a part of themselves that aren't light but necessary to their existence

[weak osprey]

I think the ancestors are essentially different beings than sky kids. They aren't vessels like we are. They get hungry, they grow and they even get tired

[late wasp]

Yes. But they are both silicon-base lifeforms.
Similar to how Dinosaurs and Humans are both carbon-base

[keen shore]

The two beings part is like how we think of ourselves as being our human body, but we’re really just our brain piloting a meat sack. The entire personality, thoughts and being of a skykid are technically just part of their inner light core, although they may think of themselves as containing their outer body as well. The issue is the inside can’t move or survive without the outer part, so they have to form a shell to live

Winged lights are peeled skykids, if you will

[late wasp]

don't fall for that meme, we are not just our brains, the body and your consciousness needs all the parts working together
||i don't feel like disclosing tmi, but I am in the medical field||

[frigid tinsel]

another image i didn't need in my head tonight

[weak osprey]

Peeled sky kids. Lol

[keen shore]

I mean I know hormones can influence your behavior and obviously pain as well, but it’s not like your consciousness and emotions are contained in your leg

[hollow knot]

sky kids are just hosts for our minds . sky is a place to temporarily go to distract ourselves from our actual lives. an artificial safe haven , it’s all escapism. but sky attracts like minded individuals for a reason. maybe there’s a bigger picture like there always have been

[late wasp]

it is
even if we only consider the nervous system, there are the autonomous nervous systems that also influence the brain, only recently we added the Intestinal Nervous System into a "third" (there are more) system alongside the Sympathetic and Parasympathetic.

literally your gut influence your thoughts and personality lol!

[frigid tinsel]

bodies are whack

[keen shore]

Thanks I hate it. Get it out please

[rustic heron]

Isn't that the whole psychosomatic response? Your body's state influences your mental state. This is why exercise and being healthy can lead to a healthier mental state.

[late wasp]

I'm being nitypicky on this because I think a Skid body is important to who they are. It is through their body that they acquired a personality and through which they express their personality. I understand there are Platonic, Pagan and Gnostic concepts of Body x Mind being separate though. Which might be interesting to discuss

[rustic heron]

It's also why physically smiling can make you feel happier. Your mind undergoes a psychosomatic response to the physical act of muscles pulling your lips upward.

[hollow knot]

i wish we had someone from the making of sky explain the concept of why sky exists in the first place. but maybe that’s up for us as sky kids to decide that

[frigid tinsel]

coughs in Tom Zhao

[rustic heron]

Sony licensed Journey, that's why. Sky is a remake of Journey with additional multiplayer elements to enhance the cooperation aspect.

[late wasp]

I mean only analyzing the Psycho part, it's like your intestine is a big brain, with its own tangle of nerves that function automatically, sending signals between each other, and sometimes also "talk" to the Brain, etc.
Like discovering a hidden CPU in your motherboard 👀

[rustic heron]

I've heard recent correlations to neurological disorders being tied to the gut's microbiome health.

[frigid tinsel]

the gut microbiome's influence on the mental state is still a not thoroughly understood phenomena. that's why one shouldn't be quick to draw conclusions from the few research we have,

[late wasp]

that's a whole another can of worms, but yeah! our bacteria influence personality too! the more you look at it, the less "individual" we are, and more like just part of the environment

but... back to Sky lore!

[hollow knot]

i see. well the lore of sky is very much intriguing. in a way are we “worshipping” the “king” or the fall of him? sky kids log on everyday to collect “wax” for currency to have items to basically look cool to define ourselves. but we spend countless hours getting max candles to have enough for items. but we are still putting our time and energy into something for something in return. i know that’s called an exchange. idk much but i do hope we get some answers abt the king this season

[frigid tinsel]

on skykids sleeping, I do think that since they don't need to sleep but possible they have more control over sleep given their nonbiological nature. I actually wrote a scene that implies that some veteran players who are no longer around are sleeping long-term

[late wasp]

i love this idea, of hibernating skykids

[hollow knot]

this explains how we are connected to our sky kids. but doesn’t explain the concept of what i asked. so how does the sky kid and the connection to us have a relation? the more money and time we spend on sky the more….. ???

[keen shore]

OH this made me remember. If multiplayer and skykids being controlled by people is an actual thing than skykids can and do “die” permanently when people stop logging on. I wonder how they would deal with knowing that and that them dying normally is impermanent at the same time

It would be odd to live in a world where death isn’t permanent but sleeping can be
like

Extending that, it means my skykid sleeps for several days at a time and I’m almost ashamed to say I relate

[frigid tinsel]

the alternative was my idea of "fading in Orbit," where a skykid refuses to descend and, if they stay in Orbit long enough, dissipate as an individual into the Megabird hivemind.
that's what happened to ponytail kid's mentor's friend.

[late wasp]

not to turn it into a cosmic horror.
but the intro narrator talking directly to our skid implies that some entities have telepathic communication with the skid - aka, access to their mind, being able to insert words.

we also have access to their mind, inserting commands.
we are mind controlling the skid, they are the prisoner of us, Tyrants from a higher dimension.

when you are AFK Skids finally live free lives. Sleeping and doing their nails, and shopping.

[keen shore]

Personally I don’t like getting super in depth into multiplayer stuff because I like having a distinct world from ours if that makes sense? although it can help make some sad stories which I am ALWAYS on board with

My current personal interpretation is that there’s just one skykid (probably not true given ingame evidence, although to be fair I can just say it’s an ingame mechanic) because I absolutely love the lore implications and jsut stories it gives

[hollow knot]

i have to say i’ve slept in sky countless times whilst also sleeping irl at the same time. it’s often i have dreams where i am teleported into the game but not as my sky kid but as me. i have yet to dream of flying in the sky as i would love to in real life. and as i have hoped. i’m experienced with dream traveling but i don’t recall merging with my sky kid at all. i am aware we are different entities but most definitely separated as we are connected. but if someone else was to access my account, it would be same yet completely different.

[late wasp]

full disclosure, I once dreamed about Lapis LMAO
Lapis was critiquing my Skykid drip

||I was reading the lore channel before going to sleep lol||

[frigid tinsel]

thing is, if the individual skykid is the only skykid in-universe, it feels very antithetical to the game's themes of of friendship and collaboration

[hollow knot]

i don’t understand what’s it like for couples to play sky together like are they laying together irl playing or in separate places. maybe both? but to play sky with someone in the same room is a bit weird

[late wasp]

calling the Skid "Ghost" in the same category as the Ancestors implies we return from the dead often

[hushed steeple]

i swear, so many stuff in this game is named in such similar ways-

[frigid tinsel]

i think the "child ghost" idea was, during concept development, that we would interact with dead skykids in the world. obviously that's been scrapped, but I do use it in my ficverse. skykids who have faded in Orbit can be called forth by their friends and they look like that. while fading, they slowly lose color and turn that blue

[late wasp]

write about Void Children

[harsh plover]

oooh i like that

[late wasp]

ah, this was the concept art that shows how at least originally the paddles used by the Valley Elders were thought as weapons.

[frigid tinsel]

in my ficverse, the faded skykid/Megabird hivemind can use the appearance of multiple faded skykids to act out as one. when one of my sky OCs was saved from fading in Orbit, many of the faded skids got to know them well enough to like them and miss them, so if that OC hangs out in Orbit too long, they can be grabbed and dragged into the hivemind by the child ghosts

[keen shore]

It does, so I don’t consider it fully canon, just a headcanon. In all honesty I focus most of my lore related efforts on unraveling pre storm stuff as opposed to anything coming after, so it doesn’t change much for me

[harsh plover]

who is the last one ?

[late wasp]

👑

[frigid tinsel]

Zhao's idea of the prince

[harsh plover]

oooh

[keen shore]

Life pro tip: Anything can be a weapon if you whack someone with it hard enough!

[hollow knot]

sky with vr??? definitely and upgrade or just another way to drain our pockets and time …
last question sorry for talking to much as i try not to. cause my beliefs can come off a bit too much .
but i find myself often drained after playing sky. it used to revitalize me of my energy … as it ironically should. but over time i find it harder to find what i’m looking for in game. it used to be the fun in going oob. which i still enjoy that yes. but it’s still harder to stay in love in sky as i once was .
any tips?

[frigid tinsel]

Zhao designed the Elders as bosses so imagine having to fight the Valley Elder(s).

[hushed steeple]

sounds like you need a break

[harsh plover]

looks tiny

[hollow knot]

i’ve taken a year break, recently a month and came back for the season

[keen shore]

I feel like this is a question better asked in a different channel, honestly. I wish I had tips but I don’t

[late wasp]

Do you have any advice for someone wanting to write fanfic, @frigid tinsel ?

[hushed steeple]

try focusing on the music? Make friends and learn music. Don't worry about quests or candle running or cosmetics, just chill. But if those don't sound very appealing to you, it's probably best to quit. Our interests and games change over time and it might happen to be that it doesn't align with your vibe anymore

But yeah, what salem said. This chat is for discussing lore, gen chat or cozy chat would've been a more suitable place to ask

[hollow knot]

thank you 🙏🏼 yes i’ve learned many songs and made many friends. i find myself talking to much in game so talking with friends is in pause for now. thx for the tip

[keen shore]

Imagine falling from the sky and walking though the world not knowing what is going on, everyone is dead, there are ruins everywhere. Slowly you start to learn about the king, some person who somehow caused the downfall of the kingdom and ruled literally everything. You meet elders which are roughly 10 times your size, you see giant statues of the king in golden wasteland, so you’re expecting when you eventually meet them they’re going to be absolutely massive. You walk up Eden wondering if the mountain itself is the king

Then you die, walk over to hug them and realize. They’re 3 ft tall. What do you do

[frigid tinsel]

1. write. write in a medium that's comfortable for you. write for yourself.
2. read a lot. read things that you like, think about why you like to read that (craft elements, usage of literary devices, storytelling) and emulate it to refine your prose.
3. think about the story you want to tell in this game. why? how can you do it?

this is what I'm using my creative writing major for – Sky fanfic

[frigid tinsel]

deck 'em

[keen shore]

Can you imagine this response further in the context of the king reincarnation theory… you die and immediately start beating yourself up

[late wasp]

thank you

[keen shore]

It’s also extremely funny seeing fan drawings of the king where they’re some super intimidating massive villain and then you look at the concept art and… yeah

[frigid tinsel]

Sky gameplay vs. Sky lore meme except it's king fanart vs. king concept art

[keen shore]

Also ty for showing us your writing, it’s really good and I really enjoy reading it :3c

[frigid tinsel]

Alasdair's writing vs Alasdair on Discord

[keen shore]

Mood. I keep wanting to write but then I open Google docs and my brain shortcircuits and all my ideas just… disappear… somehow…

[frigid tinsel]

mood, I've been dealing with a lot of self-doubt, perfectionism, and what I can best* describe as word block. writing Sky fic rather than my original content has been a breath of fresh air, probably because it's less serious and has less stress hanging over me.
of course, this comes to the dilemma of making my grad classes read my fanfiction cause that's all I can write right now but it's /shrug

*best in accordance to the censor

[keen shore]

Whenever I deal with writers block my go to method is to write the goofiest stories I can think of, because somehow I can still be perfectionistic about fanfiction… I will spend an entire month trying to rewrite and perfect a 1000 word story if allowed to. I always fail creative writing classes for this exact reason because either all my stories sound as if I’m not taking the class seriously or they take ages to complete somehow

It’s weird because redrawing things 300 times to get them perfect is amazing and what you want to do to perfect a lot of things with visual art, but it’s a horrible habit for writing

[frigid tinsel]

i think it helps that Sky the game is a stress reliever. yea, I've been writing angst and navigating some dark themes for the fic, but it's an escape. plus the Sky world is so interesting and ripe for harvest. there's so much you can put in there and watch flourish if you nuture it enough

[frigid tinsel]

thing is, writing involves a lot of rewriting sometimes. that's what I've been telling myself to get over the perfectionism plague – the first draft can suck. you can edit, add stuff, remove stuff, rewrite as much as you can until you're satisfied with it or sick of it and want to kick it to the masses. it's scary but it's worthwhile

[keen shore]

Yeah!! I like making up stories in my head as I navigate through the game and also talking about them with other people, obviously. I mean if I didn’t I wouldn’t be here… but whenever I try to actually write them, my brain just, locks up, I start panicking and then I get nowhere. It’s extremely weird that my social anxiety lets me talk to other people about something but not write a story about the same thing that I’m not obligated to share with anyone, but somehow it happens anyways??

And writing does involve a lot of rewriting, my issue is that I’ll have trouble stopping myself from starting all over after like. the first paragraph.

[frigid tinsel]

same, sounds a lot like me. my brain is constantly coming up with narratives and I feel like I'm going mad if I don't write them, but then I sit down in from of a word doc or a notebook and just lock up, fearing I'm not going to do the story the justice it deserves.

what can help with that is doing stream-of-consciousness writing, writing whatever comes to mind and see where it goes for a set period of time like five minutes. you can pick through it after.

[keen shore]

I keep hearing to try SOC writing, I think when I get a chance I’ll give it a go… i just have to force myself not to be perfectionistic about it lol

[frigid tinsel]

for a while, I wrote in pen so I couldn't go back and erase what I wrote. currently writing in pencil cos my handwriting is kinda hard to read and my hand twitching got the best of me

[harsh plover]

I know that the chat is not for this but the truth is that I am going through a breakup and sometimes I play Sky because that is what you used to play with her but now it is only a few times

[sharp lichen]

Speaking of which, I really need to continue my Sky lore fanfic

[harsh plover]

I am making some sketches and drawings of how I imagine the "King"

I call him “ Oceiros, the Corrupted King”

it's my idea of ​​a name for the king

[rustic heron]

I call him “ Oceiros, the Corrupted King”
it's my idea of ​​a name for the king
Dark Souls III thinks so, too.

[frigid tinsel]

names are interesting in Sky. no in-game character has a typical name like we do, they're just called adjective+noun nicknames, titles, and the concept names for the Elders that are no longer canon. the only concept names I use in my ficverse are Alef and Resh for the prince and king respectively just because of the lack thereof (and even then, they don't really appear). the best we got is the randomly generated names after befriending someone. since the season guides as just called "[season] guide," I've had to come up with first names and nicknames for them. for instance, Flight guide is Niya – which is "Ayin" backwards since they were the Prairie Elder's apprentice and it fits the randomly generated naming system – and they could also be deemed the [adjective] Founder

[harsh plover]

Wait what!!!? Are you serious !? That name already exist ?! You’re kidding right lapis…

[rustic heron]

I was super inspired by a Nier: Automata X Sky crossover, since both are post-apocalyptic. And then I had the idea for Nier-fashion skykids.

It got me thinking about Ancestor high-end fashion, too. What did Ancestors consider fashionable?

[rustic heron]

https://darksouls.fandom.com/wiki/Oceiros,_the_Consumed_King

[keen shore]

I wonder if they ever had names in the first place. They don’t seem to write stuff down, and are super visual in recording things, so names wouldn’t be important for that. It’s not like they could tell us their names due to ghost language barriers so it’s hard to prove if they did or not. (Most likely explanation is that our skykid doesn’t know their names so just gives them epithets based on what little they see of them)

This is the kind of small details that bog me down when worldbuilding because these are a group of people raised in a completely different world, even universe, and culture. Who knows if the minor human things we take for granted even existed to them

[harsh plover]

🥲🥲Damn!!! It’s true

Well I need a new name for the king brothers

Give me some good names…

[frigid tinsel]

you don't need a writing system to have a name. names are quick and easy ways to refer to people. even is Sky beings are alien to us, ancestors, at least, seem the most human and every human culture has some naming system, so I imagine they had names for themselves.

but as for the epithets, I do agree they're prob the skykids' names for the spirits

[sharp lichen]

Only one can truly exist, it starts with R and rhymes with Vesh!

[harsh plover]

[rustic heron]

Rash?

[weak osprey]

Is there actually any concept names or something for the elders? I remember the valley twins were called Samekh once ( Sah and Mek)

Which led me to make a headcannon in my fic that twin sky kids culturally have separate and joined names.

[keen shore]

I do think they had names just because

1. they were a social people and lived together, names would’ve been extremely useful and convenient. It’s not like they live by themselves in the woods and have no need to refer to other people or anything
2. if we’re being honest… fantasy stories in general rarely go this in depth with minor things that if kept as normal would help others understand the narrative much better, and which most people just brush over anyways. It’s like flying mechanics. You can spend ages giving your fantasy dragons accurate wing anatomy and so on, but at the end of the day only like 10 people at the most are going to care, yknow?

My writing is slowly becoming incomprehensible so I’ll probably need to sleep soon

[weak osprey]

I found this

[rigid mural]

whaaat ash specifically told me the king's name is fred

[weak osprey]

I don't know this is a pretty old image I think. Like from two years ago

[harsh plover]

alef is the kings name

[frigid tinsel]

Alef is the prince's name, Resh is the king's name. yes, the prince and king might be the same person but they refer to different things, so persumably Alef changed their name when they became King

[rigid mural]

alef and resh are concept names for the prince and the king, which may or may not be the same person yeah

[rustic heron]

These names sound very Egyptian.

[keen shore]

So uh… numerous issues with that image lol

None of the elder names actually remained canon. For the most part they’re just called [realm] elder. I could genuinely call the king Fred and it would have the same level of canon accuracy (although I will not)
Neither valley elder is male or female so I’m not really sure who they’re referring to in each one??

[rigid mural]

they're hebrew !

[rustic heron]

That's interesting, because the concept of a Golem is also Hebrew in origin.

[weak osprey]

Neither am I but I'm sticking to my cultural headcannon that twins have joined names

[frigid tinsel]

in game, they're referred to as the singular – Elder of the Valley - but there's obviously two of them, so what's up? some thoughts:
a) they're two separate entities but considered equals so referred to as one.
b) they're one entity with two bodies.
c) they're a mini collectivist hivemind; they are two separate entities but can, at some point, lose their individuality and become one mind.
d) the actual Elder of the Valley is no longer around (Valley priestess) so their heirs act as their replacement.
e) they were one entity who split at some point and the kingdom still refered to them as if they're one (implied by in-game foreshadowing).

[weak osprey]

I like the idea of a cultural thing for names because it makes the world of Sky seem more vast than it already is. Like you could make up a random name and separate it into two people. It makes it seem like the bond between twins to be more inseparable.

[keen shore]

Oh you reminded me! I have this, I might have showed it to you but I can’t remember, just remember thinking about you when I took it. These are the valley elder thrones in vault, notice how the pattern and diamond seems almost split between the two like the heart is between them rather than in the middle of each one

Obviously it could just be consequence of fitting two characters in the same space but I think it is interesting how it’s showed

[weak osprey]

This weirdly ties in with my headcannon. Maybe the twins are so close that they are always seen working as one. They are equally balanced and need one another

[frigid tinsel]

snaps knuckles and this is where my angst fic comes in

[keen shore]

Do you have a fic for everything or

[weak osprey]

In the original cutscene in beta, it showed the twins twirling and dancing together. Two individuals moving fluidly as one.

Like a soul split in two of sorts

[keen shore]

Now that I’m looking at it the throne seems like it was originally for one person but altered later

[tidal valve]

Early concept art there was only 1 elder for valley, so that’s probably why they are refered to as the singular vowel, also, i feel like it just sounds more grammatically correct lol

[frigid tinsel]

in regards to Sky fics, I am currently writing or planning

1. the main fic that follows my two sky OCs
2. the Valley Elder(s) angst fic
3. Forest Elder confronting Prairie Elder about their spies

[keen shore]

Secret valley elder lore: the valley elders are capable of splitting themselves into infinitely tiny pieces and fusing themselves back together. There has been numerous points in history where there’s been roughly 10000 of them and each one has been smaller than an inch tall

[weak osprey]

The skyshop pins all have these little poems. They seem pretty important to the lore

[tidal valve]

omg I think 2 valley elders is enough, even more then that would reak havoc

[frigid tinsel]

yea, that was the Valley Priestess, but you can see in later concept art that she was replaced by the twins

[tidal valve]

yeah! I have some of the pin poems written down but I can’t find all of them, I think I only have the isle and forest pin quote @weak osprey

[keen shore]

You’re right and that’s literally all they use their power for

[frigid tinsel]

Skyshop pin poems are listed in this doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BdMPoH0kRZOYDKvl2g5eQSH0h6JlvMHgBFs7P5Lg9NE/edit

[half shadow]

Y’all the twins are just a fusion like from su

[rustic heron]

The twins have Potara earings to fuse.

[tidal valve]

100% cannon tgc told me, the valley elders have one of those bff necklaces that connect together

I’m being scarcastic btw haha

[keen shore]

The third one brings up an important point. Prairie is filled with protecting and cohabiting with light creatures, I mean it literally has birdhouses. Forest is the complete opposite, has light creature corpses everywhere and is suspected by some to harvest them. They’re right next to each other, there has GOT to be some kind of animosity between them…

or the prairie elder isn’t actually as nice to light creatures as they seem to be especially since they didn’t get ostracized along with isle elder

Now I’m imagining a line of catapults aimed as carefully as possible for their projectiles to land just inside forest instead of falling straight through the clouds

[hushed steeple]

Hmmm, this is a tough one, but I'm going to say at least right after the floor with the mural and chain door right next to it.

[keen shore]

Oh my god what if flight guide is a prairie spy. They’re so sweet looking nobody would suspect them (known to make the best spies)

[weak osprey]

Why is there spies???

[hushed steeple]

You sure, they're the prairie elders apprentice.

[tidal valve]

I’m confused? Spies?

[keen shore]

I got sidetracked by possible prairie/forest animosity and forgot to explain, sorry

[frigid tinsel]

I wondered whether Sneaky Survivor could've been a spy (for who? why?) and it spiraled from there

[tidal valve]

Oooh fun aha

[harsh plover]

whuuut?!!!

[tidal valve]

Sneaky survivor is a spy for all the vault clipping chibis

[rustic heron]

When the stars were united, our light was infinite. But darkness came, and the stars fell.

[tidal valve]

Man I was hoping that the abyss spirits would be introduced this season like the flight ones

[harsh plover]

oooh i get it now

[weak osprey]

Spies????

[keen shore]

I know there’s a common theory that a civil war happened at some point, if that’s true there almost has to be spies

[rustic heron]

It sounds like all the Elders split up, and were disconnected from one another. They had afall out.

[hushed steeple]

Is there anything in the game that has been discovered and presumably has lore to it, but nobody has a clue about it, it can be old or new.
I want to give my hand at it,and then we can go from there.

[tidal valve]

Ugh depends what your after? Origins of wl are slightly debatable

[rustic heron]

Why is Vault Elder's mask broken?

[weak osprey]

It sounds more like the signs of a post catastrophe. Like they just went through a catastrophic event and were then wiped out again

[hushed steeple]

Ill go after anything that's unclear.

[keen shore]

Considering the current evidence for isle elder ostracization and prairie elder not being included I’m going to go out on a limb and say prairie elder was too much of a pacifist to actually split (does this make sense, there’s like 3 convos happening simuktaneously]

[tidal valve]

Fair enough! Personally I feel like s lot of things in sky are very unclear as the lore is super vauge, abosulty nothing is 100% known

[hushed steeple]

Ill go for winged light.

[weak osprey]

In the face of a major catastrophe, kingdoms that rise from it go through a lot of hardships.

I really don't think it's something as simply splitting like that.

My guesses is that some sort of epidemic or like a major catastrophe happened to cause the kingdom to fall into disarray. Most likely due to the elder's hubris.

[tidal valve]

I personally like to think that wl are fragments of ourselves, or the souls of the statues that are dead in eden

[rustic heron]

Much of the catastrophe is tied to the King, and whatever he was up to in Eden to make a permanent storm.

[weak osprey]

Yes. And say that when a king falls, who takes his place in managing the kingdoms? Which also means managing the issues that comes with the storm. Because the cutscenes showed that the Elders were struggling with what little chances they have to survive and take care of their once thriving kingdom

[keen shore]

I mean, could be a civil war that happened fairly early on, and that’s how the leadership changed from elder oligarchy to king monarchy

[weak osprey]

Or the other way around.

From monarchy to oligarchy

[tidal valve]

I feel like isle elder would have been seperated from he beginning, I feel like he’s always just seperate?

[rustic heron]

So, I have a question. If all the spirits died after the Eden catastrophe, who made their graves? And when the Elders died, who made their graves?

[tidal valve]

I feel like death is something all spirits are familiar with, i mean.. we do have a dead emote spirit so

And that one spirit in vault that goes to remember their dead friends

[rustic heron]

If the Elder's had graves, and all 6 Elders' graves are in Eden, does that mean the King killed the Elders and made graves for them below his castle?

[weak osprey]

I feel like the current sky kids aren't exactly the first batch. Like there were generations before

[tidal valve]

My sky friend just told me we are going to meet the king I.. mhm

She’s putting on chibi mask I’m getting excited

[keen shore]

Imagine she just tells you to look in the mirror

[rustic heron]

Your friend is going to kill you. Run. /j

[old sentinel]

King?

[weak osprey]

Also, if all the adults died, wouldn't that leave the kids? Like in season of assembly. They looked pretty lonely honestly. Like they were the only ones left. They built treehouses to survive, much of their things are handmade too.

[keen shore]

This chat is giving me Ideas but I am going to ruminate over them tonight so they aren’t half coherent blobs

[frigid tinsel]

spent way too long writing this, about Prairie Elder's spies

[keen shore]

OH THATS TRUE ABOUT THE WEAPONS PART. Isle can just secede, they’re an island with an ocean in the middle making invasion a bit harder. Prairie is stuck with everything else, they could just have to deal with everything to survive

[wise rampart]

Correct! I believe tgc mentioned some time ago that there was “the first” skykid. Their imprints, fragments of memories so to speak, impressions, are the winged light we see, if I remember right. A lot is theorized about the large quantity in Eden.

[hushed steeple]

So lets start with physical appearance. These are shaped like sky kids when they have no winged light, they glow obnoxiously bright yellow/gold, and they stand straight looking up besides Eden winged light which look down.
When collected they look like blue flames with gold or orange wings.
They serve sky kids as boosters to their own light, allowing them to fly higher and take more punches from a krill than a month could ever handle. They're also used to ascend the children statues in eden, funny how all the statues and all the winged lights are in the shape of children, specifically sky kids.

So here's what I got, winged light and eden statues have an obvious connection, but what is this connection, why does it exist, and why did the spirits never use winged light.

well taking into account all these observations, I think that winged lights are the spirits of dead sky children, they look like sky kids, the Eden statues look like sky kids but dead like the ancestors, and we use them to ascend the Eden statues, also, our avatar looks just like these winged lights in orbit, and so do the ascended Eden statues. And we all know that everything we see in orbit is pretty much dead. Also, when we look at spirits memories and spirits in general we see that they don't have wedges like our sky kids do. This might be because there was no winged light then, no dead sky kids no winged light. It also might be that their capes needed to be made of light and weren't but thats besides the point. The reason they're all looking up is because they're either looking to their final resting place or the after life, but the after life is more iffy since the Eden winged lights are all looking down.
What this means for us is that we are shepherding the souls of the dead and also using them for our own selfish purposes because if they're going to hitchhike off of us they better pay rent. And that's about it..

[keen shore]

Gonna make a detailed essay post analyzing every elder and realms sides in this hypothetical civil war… tomorrow. Now I need to sleep

[hushed steeple]

Sorry if anything is off or repeated, I'm a little tired at the moment because legends arceus is life force consuming.

[rose forge]

May I ask why can't sky kids breath under the water? because in valley we can breath under water before and now we cant🤔

[keen shore]

Really into the idea of a civil war where instead of there being clear heroes and villains everyone is jsut desperately trying to survive

[weak osprey]

Looking back at Sky, it doesn't seem as if it were any civil war. If it were there'd be more weapons beyond GW because that's how wars worked. This looks more like they were trying to prevent something. Fighting a greater evil than each other. Signs of a country's ruin can differ with cause.

I believe I'm seeing a nation led to ruin by a natural disaster, and further destroyed with lack of resources.

The longer I look, the less it looks like a war and the more it looks like a dying kingdom.

They really weren't meant to last after the storm and they tried but failed. All the spirits seem to be inhabitants with memories post strorm event.

It's like when Karakatua exploded and the people had to try and survive months of polluted air, red smokey skies with dead bodies everywhere

[frigid tinsel]

i had been writing for so long that I don't know what's going on in chat rn and there are moths looking at my sleeping form confused

[pastel brook]

A "moth" is a new player. They have brown wings, they flap around uncontrollably, and they are drawn to flame!

[hushed steeple]

Probably because of our candles and also to make the waters something else other than just difficult flying but beneath a place we couldn't explore previously.

[wise rampart]

I actually agree with this. I do believe there was at first a war of two sides, but after the catastrophe in eden, it effectively went to hell in a handbasket. Scavengers of old facilities, like the current season, people forced to sneak around and fight for survival.

[weak osprey]

There are no heroes and villains in their stories. They're just trying to survive and failing. Miserably.

[keen shore]

I don’t know if a civil war is 100% canon but damn does it make good headcanons

[hushed steeple]

Ok, lets pull up the mural depicting the wasteland elder and a sleeping king from sanctuary and come up with an explanation for this person.

[wise rampart]

Precisely. Those in the valley were able to live for longer, due to the elevation from the darkness, what with them being hoisted high into the clouds, but eventually they had to scavenge and fight too.

People who could farm for food, such as those in the Forgotten Ark, probably lived out peaceful lives, dying of natural causes.

[weak osprey]

It desperate situations like these isn't even a war anymore. It's just a purge by now. People just die

[frigid tinsel]

when I mention the king having powers, I think the king – if they are Chosen One – had powers over light from the trials that made the other Elders fear them a bit, so it's possible that at some point whatever they wanted happened. if the Elders ever had to oppose the king, they had to do it secretly to avoid getting beaned

[hushed steeple]

"HERBALIST, CAN YOU HEAR ME, PLEASE DONT DIE OF MALARIA AND TETNUS, PLEASE!!!"
-Nodding muralist(centuries ago I dunno)

[wise rampart]

Indeed. The encroaching darkness from Eden, the dragons which the abyssal scavengers are absolutely not prepared for, etc.

[harsh plover]

Too much information…

[weak osprey]

I think the kids in assembly got separated at some point and all died, leaving the assembly guide all alone

[harsh plover]

Azrael.exe is Dead

[wise rampart]

It’s likely due to the potions they sell to us, they probably had cures for most if not all ailments. They do have minor control over all elements individually, including the darkness.

[weak osprey]

This gets sadder and sadder by the moment

[frigid tinsel]

Sky lore is dark

[hushed steeple]

I was just making a joke.

[wise rampart]

Sky lore is only as dark as you make of it

[harsh plover]

It’s mysterious

[hushed steeple]

This, read, you have no choices here.

[frigid tinsel]

btw Forest Elder knew about the spies cos they're observant and Wasteland Elder was killing whatever spies they found.

[wise rampart]

Here I can right out my old theory for them. In depth this time

[weak osprey]

Maybe it's not a civil war but a revolutionary one. There's headcannon the elders opposed the king because the king became corrupted. Because of this war broke out between the kingdom and its king. This causes the great storm and ruins the realms. Thus, leading the Elders who led the revolution to try and preserve what they had left before dying out.

Ruined realms = no resources = death

This is my theory.

[hushed steeple]

When did we jump to Spy: children of the stealth.
I don't understand

[frigid tinsel]

i'm still going off on my Prairie Elder had spies idea: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[hushed steeple]

We need to show you the suspicious mural of the wasteland elder killing the king with the other elders watching because you are quite on point.

[weak osprey]

I'd like to think they found some semblance of stability seeing how season of dreams and gratitude were still about. But the peace didn't last long and they died out.

[frigid tinsel]

that mural was confirmed a bug and not suppose to look like that

[weak osprey]

Some of the seasons very sincerely looked happy. Like they actually found hope.

[hushed steeple]

When TGC did seasons with spirits spread about the kingdom of sky, was there one from which the spirits originated from prairie?

Or maybe prairie elder reached out to other kingdoms as to leave less suspicion upon themself.

Now I'm just picturing the whole belonging plot having been staged.

[weak osprey]

There's still the batteries and several places within the realms that can still be activated like the elevators.

In matters of technology, they found some semblance of hope to survive and for a while they did. So it's not an issue of technological resources. They would've made it.

There's only one thing I could think of that would've possibly ruined all semblance of hope.

A plague of darkness.

They fended off the storm but it clearly wasn't enough. I headcannon they tried to purify the dark water with the pipes in Wasteland but thrre was too much

[hushed steeple]

When? By who?

[weak osprey]

It's like making a bunker against zombies and it was breached

It simply wasn't enough to fend off the darkness.

That's where the first sky kids come in. They were the first ones to attempt to help cleanse Eden after the Elders sealed it. That's why they're all over the place.

[hushed steeple]

The technology was based around these diamond shaped objects that are thought to have been made of light creatures and is part of the cause of darkness/corruption.

[frigid tinsel]

this is exactly what I'm thinking. creative writing below.
there wasn't a war, at least not yet. there were some uprisings, attacks on the factories, an attempted assassination. the king feared an uprising and put Wasteland Elder in charge of weaponry. Valley Elder(s) had to pacify the people with games and entertainment. Isle Elder was banished.

the remaining Elders feared what the king could do in their paranoia. so they staged an attack on Eden, turning the king's weaponry and army against them. the king, with their awesome powers held out. they retreated to the peak of Eden mountain.

the remaining Elders confronted the king but either the king defeated them and triggered the Eden storm or the Elders managed to stop the king but failed to disarm the Eden diamond.

[hushed steeple]

Thus the sky kids souls were scattered across the realm in the form of winged lights.

I need to do something else like sleep.

[weak osprey]

I can get behind this. Because though the diamonds probably didn't need living creatures to be powered, I think this one specifically was tempered with.

When you turn a good invention into a weapon of mass destruction. Like a final atom bomb.

Maybe the King used it to threaten the Elders to cooperate or he'd destroy all the realms

THEREFORE, The King. Had. NUKES

[harsh plover]

maybe that's the reason why everything is destroyed

or maybe not

someone here is still alive?

[half shadow]

unhinged 2:30 am theory posting: every sky kid is a single part of the shattered king’s soul and we are trapped in a purgatory-like cycle of rebirth as we rebuild the kingdom we destroyed as penance

i’m almost kind of kidding probably

[harsh plover]

wait i got lost, explain it again

[weak osprey]

Well

Through all this, I think I got enough info I wanted to continue writing. Thanks again for the incredible discussion

[weak osprey]

I just watched the latedr opening sequence to the game and GOD, did it change. Here's the new lines they give us when we light up the candles in the tunnels.

" The spirits of this realm have long awaited your arrival... ...and your light. With the stars united, our light was infinite... ...and together we lived in harmony."

" As spirits, we soon became many... ...creating our home here in the clouds."

" But darkness came and the stars fell...and with their light we faded away."

" A long time had passed. Now we call to you. Go forth child, return our spirits to the stars."

(Zooms in on first winged light on the ground outside)

" Draw near, so we may start you on this journey."

(After getting cape)

" At last, child...you are ready. Begin by answering the temple's call."

" Spirits once lit the skies and connected our realms...in temples, our elders would usher them skyward. But now, their light is lost."

" Awaken the spirits still lost in this realm to proceed."

So to say, they've always been spirits even before the kingdom fell. When this darkness came, what I assume is the Storm, the stars fell and its light with it. Then did the kingdom fall apart.

At the beginning it says that the spirits had been waiting for us, for our light. What did they lose before? Stars and their light. This means sky kids are stars. Stars are the vessels for light. We carry that light.

We are essentially waking up the spirits and elders. Like they've been in deep slumber. They're described as lost. We are then later told to awaken the other elders waiting at their temples.

" The spirits you already saved will descend to thank you with gifts."

Just thought I should add that for anyone who's wondering how sky kids get cosmetics story wise

[rich prawn]

Being tossed from heaven reminds a lot the christian bible story of a dispute in the heavens and the devil being expelled and falling on earth with it's zealot angels. In this story the heavens became exclusive to christian god and fellow angels. But it's the opposite, there is no possible ascension and the darkness was expelled...

[tidal valve]

In concept art for prarie, prarie elder was meant to be in a coma before you wake him up, idk thought it related to your idea! with awakening the elders

Anybody else look at the new star pin quotes from the offical merch website? I think it’s interesting how they refer to golden wasteland as a sea, and cold, really backing up my golden wasteland used to be an ocean theory

[weak osprey]

No man. I took lines directly from the updated intro of the game. It said awaken the elders

[tidal valve]

Well yeah but it just reminded me a little of the concept art stages that’s all! (-:

[weak osprey]

I see

[tidal valve]

I think the pin quote from the horn is the most interning so far

“Enchanting melodies from the past
Echo softly through each rebirth
Ancient tales told a thousand times
Musical notes divined by the almighty wise”

I’ve always wondered about how some spirits have music sheets and if it could have any potential lore behind them, I like that this pin poem kinda shows that there is a history behind the music of sky, and just like stories and murals music is also very apparent in sky culture, I really like the idea of spirits passing down music notes to keep some stories and memories alive

[weak osprey]

It certainly does feel that way. In history, music can show the culture of a place. It's just as important as everything else.

[tidal valve]

The new pin quotes are really nice to analyze, I think this the the first pin with the gw elder poem? Unless I missed it before

[weak osprey]

What I find interesting is the fact that they've always been spirits

[rich prawn]

Also memory like the medieval minstrels and bards

[tidal valve]

Which means the only elder we have left to get a poem from is vault elder

[weak osprey]

Like old folk songs

[tidal valve]

Off topic but... oh zelda?

This is the gw elder pin poem

Galloping in the wintery sea
To the light they fire a warm breeze
gifting guidance with unwavering love
There, the coruage needed comes from above

[rich prawn]

zelda much

[weak osprey]

Maybe we aren't just helping the spirits find peace. With the new intro it feels more like we're reviving it. The stars no longer inhabit the sky as the spirits ascend.

It's like we're learning to inherit the entire kingdom itself. Rediscovering its history and culture, listening to its music and stories.

Replacing the spirits, we become the new bridge between the realms. The spirit descend often to teach us more, give us gifts and so on. We were made to fill this empty kingdom with life

[tidal valve]

I like that idea, very sweet, but I also like how at the same time we help let the spirits let go so they can finally ascend, giving them the light to finally return home and, they give us the knowledge that was passed down from their ancestors so that we may learn more from this world to help more spirits

[weak osprey]

Considering how sky kids never age, the kingdom is now a land of children. It makes it full of light.

[tidal valve]

I really like how the pin poems give us some insight into the realms of sky, I find it super interesting that gw is meant to be cold and windy, I always thought that if anything it would be insanely humid

mhm now I want to fish up some older pin poems

[rich prawn]

Maybe children r the only ones capable of carrying light because they r not corrupted yet, like in His Dark Materials

[tidal valve]

The box of coruage pin also has a nice poem for gw

Cold howling afar
Desolation unfurls into thin air
Will the ancients head our sorrow
And guide our souls through tomorrow?
......... faith leads to the true north

I just cut the middle part out since I think the ending quote is really significant for the journey towards vault/ potentially orbit?

[lyric isle]

hrngh. in chant meant lore

ark pin

[rich prawn]

Is there any lore connection between the Valley Citadel (flying area around circular buildings) and the GW citadel? Like a seminal effort or something like that? Thanks for guidance u guys :)

[late wasp]

◈ Tom Zhao's original concept art for a timeline considered the Wasteland Citadel to have been built some time after the Ancestors first went into war with the creatures of the world. After the citadel was built, most of the ancestors went to live inside its walls.

► we know war with the creatures is very highly not canon anymore, because it would create all sorts of plot-holes for the citadel warriors and defenses being designed against terrestrial enemies.
► Wasteland citadel still has a strong theme of refugees seeking a haven within (from ancestor memories).
► the Vault of Knowledge is located within the Wasteland Citadel, the Wasteland Elder grave is really just the entrance, or the very first room of the Vault.

◈ Inside the Vault, we see the seats for all the Elders, and also, on top of Eden (accessed through the Vault), we see the graves of all Elders.

► This shows how the Wasteland Citadel, the Vault, and Eden was inhabited by all Elders at least at some point.
► Returning to Zhao's concept art, we see how the two connect. Since in the original concept art, most ancestors sought refuge within the citadel.
► It is not far fetched to assume, that the construction of the citadel, came after the rest of kingdom, and it still retains its original lore plot, of being a refuge built after the first war against [UNKNOWN].

◈ King's imagery can only be found in the Wastelands and the Vault/Eden.

► If the other places of the kingdom were still heavily inhabited /relevant, the King's imagery would also make an appearance in them. But it doesn't.
► This further hints that most of the other parts of the Kingdom were already abandoned when the King arrived. Most ancestors were already living inside the Wasteland Citadel of the Vault.

.
TL;DR: Valley used to be the capital of their civilization, but it was abandoned, alongside most other settlements when the ancestors sought refuge inside the Wasteland Citadel of the Vault

[rich prawn]

How may I access the original concepts? Tks for guidance!

[late wasp]

I should make a sources for the 3 points heh

1. Tom Zhao's concept art for the Timeline (heavily modified in the final product): https://www.tomzhao.com/sky1

2. In game lol

3. Ash (Concept Artist) commented that here:

"you can actually see the king's statues in Dusk (Wasteland) and Storm!" (Eden)
"there are also subtle designs and motifs referencing the king in the world too. iirc some of the latticework in valley/dusk temple has a design pattern reminiscent of the kings head"
<#lore-discussion-spoilers message>

[rich prawn]

Tks! :)

[exotic steppe]

Do the elders have names or do we just call them [kingdom] elder

[late wasp]

Just Biome/Sky Elder

like Isle Elder or Dawn Elder

[exotic steppe]

man I wish they had names

[weak osprey]

There used to be a pretty popular rumour on the names which were all mostly in Hebrew

[exotic steppe]

Really? What were they?

[solar relic]

these hebrew names were from concept art but never made it into the game, so to avoid confusion we don't use them here

[weak osprey]

This apparently but let's not use them since this was mostly just concept

[exotic steppe]

Cool

[late wasp]

yeah, and most devs don't even know these abandoned names
it's as good as us calling them Joe Elder, and Larry Elder

[weak osprey]

But I do have a pretty fun headcannon out of this.

Twins have joined names which can also be separated. Like the old Valley Elders name Samekh, separated is Sah and Mek

[late wasp]

Although, to be fair, I later found out the value in giving different names for the Valley Twins, but I had already declared by crusade by then lmao!

[hushed steeple]

Wait, isn’t there also subtle references to the king in other realms as well? Even if they aren’t as direct as the vault or waste ones? Like the forest power diamond doors, if you look close there’s also the king’s mask on there. Along with the photo of king stuff below

Of course, this could be just a coincidence idk

[late wasp]

As much as I love that compilation, and it was what introduced me to the King. Some of the symbols there are not even the King's lol.
Like the ◈

the lozenge with the dot inside, it is the symbol for "MIND", or Memory / Imagination. Often used by the civilization as a whole.

but the quote from Ash does say:
"there are also subtle designs and motifs referencing the king in the world too (...)"
and
"(...) iirc some of the latticework in valley/dusk temple has a design pattern reminiscent of the kings head"

[graceful lance]

Kind of a pointless theory but here it is anyways

So this skeleton here, it has a long body and horns. This might mean was a Krill, but the diamond shaped part means it could've been a krill before it became corrupted

While the creature it was we never seem to see elsewhere in the game (alive) we can tell that it's skull was broken in half, most likely how it died

Thank you for coming to my skeleton theory
(Traditionally finding the age of fossils, you either rely on the law of superposition or the half-life of C14)

[dense fractal]

came here to dump a theory :

we can see the prophecies in the mural during Season of Prophecy come to life as we continue to experience the seasons. Flight & Abyss are Air and Water trial respectively — we might have an Earth and Fire themed season soon

[severe escarp]

Does anyone know about the eden king?

[amber wyvern]

Theres also one on wasteland, there was a theory it is an extinct species, so we can only see its skeleton now
could it be the krill before it got corrupted tho?? It could, since the species is extinct now, theres no proof that it isn't the krills before getting corrupted

[graceful lance]

Anything with horns

Seems to be extinct, because mantas, the whales, birds, none of them have horns, only the Krill have horns

[late wasp]

the giant fish in Sanctuary does

[graceful lance]

That one?

[late wasp]

A little hard to see, but I think so

[graceful lance]

In that case

No horns to be seen (not my photo btw, got it from somewhere else)

[hushed steeple]

Never seen anywhere else alive?......

You sure?

[harsh plover]

maybe its a dragon

[amber wyvern]

Big boy

[late wasp]

should have checked discord lol!
I went there to check. indeed it doesn't have horns.
I wonder what I mistake it for

[boreal nebula]

@late wasp @nova geyser and yet I think both your points couldnt bave stopped a krill

If they'd wish they could have break into a building like Vault (like they did with the rest of GW)

And if they could have phase trough any solid building in the first place, why there's all this distruction?
Or why we, made of light, aren't detected if being a solid (or a tent)?

My bet would be on game mechanics (once they're loading or if their attack is locked onto you, they phase throught, no hard/heavy physics calculations for mobile phones)

[boreal nebula]

Where is this? I need to upvote react to it!

[tawdry whale]

do you think krill bury themselves in sand/underwater?

[graceful lance]

If I'm not mistaken

That doesn't have horns

[late wasp]

i've seen beta spoilers, my life can no longer go on the way it was

all i will say this is the most ambitious, powerful and lore relevant season!!!
I'm so glad I will be here playing it live

[wise rampart]

moreso than that of prophecy?

[frigid tinsel]

Here: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[half shadow]

I get that vibe (haven’t looked at beta) just from seeing how deep, pun intended, all of the setting goes. The massive underwater temple is unlike anything we’ve seen before in Sky and I am soooo loving this

[late wasp]

lore channel will go wi ild
and dont look spoilers, it is much better to feel it firsthand. i wish i could turn back time and unsee what i watched lmao

[half shadow]

I’m such a gremlin about spoiling things for myself I’m gonna go mute beta so I don’t feel the temptation

[frigid tinsel]

I’ve already muted and hidden the beta channels

[half shadow]

I do like reading the updates sometimes for the funny little jokes in patch notes

[boreal nebula]

__My Questions for Ash# ???? (dev) __ just in case They get online

Where does the Sun set in Sky? East or West (considering Eden Beacon as North)

Why there are two different models of Regular Mantas now?
Old One with the diamond shape at the start of the tail and New One with open fins (not just underwater, but flying in Bird Nest and Sanctuary too)

Is the mantas/krills passing through solid objects a game mechanics (unavoidable bcs to hard to render impacts) or a skill of said creatures (phasing through) ?

[late wasp]

teb, it is where the sun rises that defines where is East.
and East/West that defines North/South.

[wise rampart]

it’s likely due to the angle of the moon/sun in sky, there’s a hemispheric axis line like Earth’s

[boreal nebula]

Usually, yes

But since our "compass" points to Eden, it would be better to simplify the concept here

After all, there could be many things unlike our own planet in a different planet, like different rotation, a "day" could even last less than a "year" (consider how Mercury is almost always with the same face facing Sun in our Solar System, and how fast it revolve around the Sun before even finishing a rotation around itself)

Or even gravity (those damn skykids, can they jump gracefully because of the gravity or because they float?)

[wise rampart]

they are also in the mountains, so the air may be thinner

[boreal nebula]

Yess. Like Mars atmosphere, soo tiner compared to Earth's one

[wise rampart]

I think of sky kinda like a mountain range. There’s little mountains and crests, like valley, there’s big dips and leaving the mountains, like wasteland, and there’s the big mountain, eden.

like a really, really angry Mount Everest

[distant turtle]

It has the same face as the whale we usually see

[graceful lance]

So does this whale

Perhaps they evolved from the same ancestor, these are things we need to take into account

The horns don't match up with any other light creatures

[distant turtle]

I mean the horns and all are like the other whale

[graceful lance]

Last time I checked, the other whale doesn't have horns

[wise rampart]

It may be convergent evolution

[late wasp]

I will go check in GW

[distant turtle]

Here is a shot from Sky Wiki

[late wasp]

horned!

[rigid mural]

i gotta say, the kid in the switch trailer may not be a sky kid, but the way they are reaching out for the mantas... the vibes of that tell me at least a part of sky kids came from ancestors.
Maybe the Sky kids are the embodiment of their desire to fly ? Even the triangles omnipresent on ancestor clothing suggests that without their boats or light creatures, they are flightless.

[wise rampart]

It’s likely divergent evolution then.

[graceful lance]

Then it's probably just that, a light whale

[late wasp]

1 to 1

[hushed steeple]

Granted its got like 4 different names. Big fish, coelacanth, king tuna, whale, ect ect

I like coelacanth best since that looks like what its partially based on (and one other ancient fish I forgot the name of)

and also the sanctuary whale looks wayyyy more like an actual whale

[hushed steeple]

Lapis remember to save your message before you post it in case it thinks a random word is bad

[rustic heron]

Coelecanth are part of a grouping of fish known as "lobed-fin fish" They possessive fins that, by their name, look like lobes, or primordial feet. These types of fish are theorized to be the first vertebrates to come onto the land.
If you look at the following Tom Zhou:
You can see the skull of a placoderm, which is a more basal group of fish from the Late Devonian period (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkleosteus).
You could call this concept creature a Dunkleosteus as well. I'm more partial to "Dunky", though.

[hushed steeple]

YEAH! The dunkleosteus WAS the other ancient fish whos name I forgot! The chompy bitey looking bone parts pretty close to its design.

[amber wyvern]

Based on a beta update ||that includes an underwater breach in sanctuary islands, do y'all think they'll add an oob area of the big manta like they did with ruby?||

[harsh plover]

Wooow so the skulls are from this big boys

[pastel brook]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/593565781166391316/832872714967842826/Untitled90_20210416150354.png

[amber wyvern]

In the lore it is shh

[sharp lichen]

As deep as the ocean you’re standing on

[harsh plover]

you again ?!!!

[rustic heron]

Do we have links to other concept artists for TGC?

Well, in case we don't:

https://www.artstation.com/ryoshino
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/PeoBOo
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/KrvlDB
https://www.aaronjessie.com/

Some of these have recent season concepts and the like. Didn't see these in the pins, but I thought they might be worth going over for some lore.

[frigid tinsel]

There’s also: https://www.artstation.com/vaello

[rustic heron]

You know what's funny? There's a number of artists working at TGC that also did work for God of War III. That's quite a paradigm shift, but I suppose art is art, regardless if it's of child light golems or god-killing warriors.

[rigid mural]

that means they got a wide range !

[rustic heron]

A vain hope, but I low-key want a Kratos-inspired mask.

[orchid jolt]

@pastel brook it is very deep. we have the dive ability now, remember?

[rigid mural]

i like that they are called gods

[orchid jolt]

It is now, I brought a shovel

[orchid jolt]

hmmm, looks like the skykids used to have cowbells on them...

[half shadow]

I would absolutely LOVE seeing more recent concept art. The TLP concept art was so good

[half shadow]

TGC where did the freaky spidery one in the middle go I demand to see them in the game

[orchid jolt]

other half of lore chat seeing the cannoneer shoot a harpoon at a symbol that represents the prince: 😦

[late wasp]

based

[frigid tinsel]

some ideas

1. the gods lose stuff, like a tree that will fall leaves.
2. the gods do not show expression, watching the children with curiosity, but without altering their behavior.
3. Bell

[orchid jolt]

im like 75% sure that slowly turned into forest elder, and that the one on the left turned into the prairie elder. I think the right one turned into vault elder but only based on the planet thing and vault being sort of space-like

[orchid jolt]

Note: the bell arrow points to something on the skykids chests that looks kinda like a cowbell

[frigid tinsel]

Don’t wanna lose the little kingdom rescuers, slap a bell on that kid

[boreal nebula]

On the contrary, yes , it does, even if not whide and visible , but you can either chase it in:
• GW (between Valley and social area, but hard to see it well with the gloomy lighting)
• Eden Castle, when we float to exit the clouds and it rams against the big tower on the way (but it's too much to waste half an hour Eden Run to see it)
• Underground Cave, below Sunny Forest (and it's easier spot it and quite easy to either chase it or OOB to see it closely!)

It's skull also reminds of the Mask you can get from Fainting Warrior (same mask Tsadi GW Elder has)

If you ask me the theory about Krill being corrupted Whales doesnt match up, at least for the skeleton part

If the Whale skeleton in Forsest was there because the creature landed there, its ribs are pointing up naturally and I dont get why it should remind the Krill long legs, pointing downward

It could also be that the bones was placed there later one by others. But I think a majestic creature like that could turn/transform in something more similar and majestic (like maybe the spoilered ||creature hidden under the Abyss Tower/Lighthouse||

Hold on, that collage from OOB is not mine

image0_by_Foolish#8749.jpg

All the rest are mine

[orchid jolt]

||Im assuming this is about what the leviathon is (what could have gotten corrupted and turned into the leviathon). and, while the side and front view of it's head looks reasonably close enough to the whale/coalecenth, the top view of the head shows us a completely different shape||

[boreal nebula]

That might be an interesting point

It's not much talked about branching evolutions here in lore, most of the time about a linear evolution (Pokemon style), rather than Darwin's evolution style.
I prefer this one, even if it's not clear how we can figure if there is branching or a linear evolution (like Maybe only after many cycles of ascension one regular manta evolve into a Great Manta)

[harsh plover]

oooooh daaaaamn what is that?!!!!

[late wasp]

I can understand what you are trying to say, but I don't think it works though.

The mere fact we see rising and setting sun already shows that Eden is not located in any of the poles of that planet.

Further, even if the "compass" is set to Eden, which, due to the first point we can know for certain is not in any of the Poles, all it would mean is that we have a GPS destination set somewhere on the planet. If we make it the "North", then east/west no longer correlate to the movement of the sun anymore, and what direction the sun rises no longer matter.

eg: http://mrgris.com/projects/merc-extreme/
here you can define different "poles" for your perspective, but the path the sun apparently goes through will always be the equator.

What I'm trying to say is that "East" is where the sun rises. That is how you define "East".

[distant turtle]

Awesome whale images. Isn’t it a little weird that it looks like it has an empty eye socket?

[boreal nebula]

I'm not trying to set a strict terminology for what is east and how to define it, if we even could do things formal, yes, you're 100% right

Just trying to define a simple method to get an idea

I'm going to look at the site you share soon

I think it could be useful to know the sun movement for something I'm workin on

And to know In which, to be less ambiguous let's Just say , direction sun sets is crucial for this😅

[boreal nebula]

Yeahh. To me is also weird it has a split skull, while we see the mask depicting it as a whole, maybe it's just an approximated shape (using the same as the skull in Forest) which shouldn't be seen unless you OOB there

[rigid mural]

i like making map

[distant turtle]

I think that Eden is towards the North, because in Hermit Valley, Eden would be downhill, and the Sun is setting on the left.

[rigid mural]

you dont see eden from hermit valley tho; its location in valley is also pretty unreliable because from the ice rink, it's seen between where you came from and the citadel, but from the sliding race, you see it straight ahead

[distant turtle]

True, but I am assuming that the Seasons of Sanctuary and Dreams omit Eden even if it would be visible. I think they do it to make the places feel like an escape from the main story.

[late wasp]

the direction the sun sets is called "West" lol!
but a better way to phrase your question, which I understand what you are trying to ask is...

"how is the map of skyworld positioned, is the GW facing the east coast, or is it facing the west coast?"

[late wasp]

one thing I love about Sanctuary is how it shows the Eden Storm is present only in that continent where the ancestor civilization was located.

I wonder how the world is like in distant continents

one funny coincidence is how the plot of Sky is the same plot as Demon's Souls
colorless fog devouring the kingdom after the king tried to use soul arts (harnessing souls for power)

[boreal nebula]

Wowow
http://mrgris.com/projects/merc-extreme/
Trippy😲 🤯 👻

[distant turtle]

All roads lead to Eden

[boreal nebula]

@late wasp It think it would still be better to keep the question relevant to the movement of the sun

For example, if the sun is on the left as Said by @distant turtle, then it measn that the sun moved from the right side of the Stadium (as seen from Village) to the stadium left side. In a way we could say in Sky world sun sets "on that west" or maybe it could be better to say is that Sky sun has a movement opposite to Earth's Sun (if we watch the Sun we see it moving clockwise, while on Sky it seems cunterclockwise)

But what I want to know is simply, did Devs took all this in consideration or is just a matter of stykistic choice ("better put the sunset peek on this side just because I like it better this was?")

[distant turtle]

Is there even a Sun visible at other times? It seems vague when I look.

[boreal nebula]

Even if it might seems trivial, knowing the the (un)clock direction of the sun could help orientate maps where the sun is visible while Eden not, or even maps where sun + Eden are there

We sortof know by default each map is taken in a certain time frame after all!

[late wasp]

teb convincing me to do a playthrough where I keep track of the North at all times LOL

for one, we know that the sun sets behind the portals at Home
making the Eden Portal the North of Home

[rigid mural]

real 17th century sailor moments here

[boreal nebula]

😂

Yeah, but we also see the sun rise there😅 😅

Behind the portals in Home, I mean

[late wasp]

[boreal nebula]

That could also mean another reason why Home Might be not canon

[hushed steeple]

Yeah, its my prime candidate!

[late wasp]

Isle of Dawn has no apparent Sun, but there is light coming from behind the temple, we can count it as a potential Sun position

making our movement @ Dawn to be West -> East

I flew above the clouds (Switch version at least allow that), there is only the huge Eden mountain behind, and a massive light behind it. maybe indicating the sun is rising behind the mountain, but not sure

we move to Prairie now

Yup, in Prairie the Sun is more up in the sky, having indeed risen from behind the Eden Mountain, effectivelly making our journey one of West to East.
Eden being in the East.

I will keep track going on
forgot to mention I learned you can fly over the first temple, not paying grandpa a visit

[gloomy isle]

can someone give me a short rundown of the basic lore that may or may not be canon

[late wasp]

Interesting in the Village area, the Sun is even higher in the sky, but at an angle

so we are going from NW to SE

[boreal nebula]

Well, the odd thing about sun in Home is that it seems to move just on a diagonal, which is odd

It reminds me of an Analem, something that can be "seen" over the course of a year
https://youtu.be/Deli5COMJhs

Quote, from Wikipedia:

In astronomy, an analemma (/ˌænəˈlɛmə/; from Ancient Greek ἀνάλημμα (analēmma) 'support')[a] is a diagram showing the position of the Sun in the sky as seen from a fixed location on Earth at the same mean solar time, as that position varies over the course of a year

[boreal nebula]

Your might be the most simple question with the most complicate answers (even if asked by almost anyone)😅

Hope these could help, but note these are all fan documentation despite well written

There's a bunch of lore docs but they're a bit outdated. They will occupy you for a while tho !

Lore Moth Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18B1-SKG3toG0oH0VhOWC5o-cG9u0STAN92QvmbhTDto/edit?usp=sharing

Canon Lore Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10ZWJRGiJSrIXgDvJ4pST61moZbVB_hBExUjOaF-pmOE/edit?usp=sharing

Theories Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-SOY_5WrhQ2ftVZEM9VMBsz92-n_53kBzQoHKmY2-24/edit?usp=sharing

Sky Leitmotifs
https://docs.google.com/document/d/19p_7mI1bI4fxKBk5ogVJCTsU7hzLJejqBgQTSJDAjuo/edit?usp=sharing

[boreal nebula]

But it might be better if you ask about more little things, if you have any topic you would like to ask

[boreal nebula]

So you are take a full tour of Sky?

I am more intersted on triangulate the spot of Hermit Peek with Citadel (even if in Citadel there is no Eden Beacon)

[uneven grotto]

Sanctuary has no Eden beacon, so its gonna be tricky

[uncut pond]

The positions of sanctuary, citadel and hermit peak shouldn't be too hard since the Eden beacon is visible in the areas right before them

Well maybe hermit peak is a bit more tricky due to the transition suggesting that the boat traveled a long distance from Village of Dreams
But I don't see how would Sanctuary and citadel be hard considering they're right next to places where the Eden beacon is visible

Oh wait I didn't read all the previous messages

A full playthrough of Sky where you gotta keep track of where North is? That's insane

[late wasp]

Yup! Taking a break on the phone, but I will be back there shortly.
I saw your message earlier, I think it is relevant, because it seems the game takes place "near" the North pole, seen by how we see the sun "arch" in the sky.
I will try to draw some pictures later

[boreal nebula]

Or arent they?

Each transition could simply be an esemplification not directly corresponding with 2 points connected right away

Consider the entrance to the Skiing Race which is not as direct as for Flying Race

Or the entrance to Citadel, it has a long walled path we only fly throgh the beginnong...

So Sanctuary could be near IF the transition is direct or not too much esemplified (for example in Vela Map of Valley it is seen how much Village would be from Valley Social Area even if it see a direct transition)

[boreal nebula]

Yeah... well. If by arch you mean something like the 8shape described by the "analemma " I described earlier... I not quite sure how the sun could make that in just one day (it usually should described a wavelength path like a cosine/sine)

Picture take from gdargaud.net

[boreal nebula]

Random thought:

Maybe the planet of Sky as a weird rotation , instead of a simple rotation around the axis, the axis could be spinning too, much like a "spinning top" when it's running out of angular momentum and its axis move too much ➿

So, yes we are running toward the pole, the weird arch of the sun resemble the analemma because the planet has an unstable spin

[harsh pecan]

Wow

[frigid tinsel]

this map and geography talk is so fascinating

[harsh pecan]

I agree

[boreal nebula]

I mean... I cannot be sure about any of these considerations, tho

I wouldnt even know how to simulate/prove any of this complex system of movements...

[nova geyser]

I mean they can’t see us through solid objects because their optical nerves seem to work in a wavelength spectrum that is big enough to not see through most solid objects and small enough to not see infrared (assuming skids give off heat??), but just because they can’t see through things doesn’t mean they can’t phase through things

Everywhere in GW that the krill are found is outside or has large holes for outside access; it could be most of the destruction is from the initial Bad Event At Eden (also why the destruction decreases the further away you get) and then the rest is just decay from lack of upkeep. I can definitely see that for Isle if it was originally a desert that got converted into more fertile land; as soon as no one was there to keep the desert at bay, it’d just get swallowed up.

Of course re: your last point about game mechanics, it could be that they can ONLY phase when they’re locked onto a target, which from a world logic would mean they’re saving energy by only phasing while chasing prey ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[late wasp]

I'm finally free and can resume my quest for the sun.
and weird... the sun in forest can be seen when you fly high enough and...

this seems to be what's going on so far... (Red is Eden)

[keen shore]

The fact that the sun exists and all the stars have already fallen and they can turn into beings (as in, we come from a star as shown in murals) is bothering me. Is the sun also a person? How does this work? Is it also possible for them to fall?

[late wasp]

embrace Megabird atheism. Let me nerd out.
it is actually very possible to have a planet somewhere with a mountain tall enough that its peak allows a climber to go into orbit. (good info for sci fi writers)

this solves one of the "magical" factors in Sky. But there is more.
It's also possible to have lifeforms that evolve to survive in Space. Often they are called "Space Whales" as a banner example of the idea.
Meaning the creatures in Skyworld could have developed to survive in Space all together.

And finally, we can take Tom Zhao's concept art and assume the creatures in Skyworld have adapted this into their life cycle, going out of orbit and back into the planet in different life cycles.

[keen shore]

How many alien civilizations have been wiped out because their planets’ sun(s) turned into children

Were all the stars fake to begin with and the entire planet has like… a cardboard box around it that makes all the actual stars invisible?

[late wasp]

STARLINK in space can be viewed as "stars" and so would creatures in orbit.
Maybe Sky Kids are simply a lifeform that developed in Orbit, but remains in Orbit. Only rarely falling into the Planet

"stars", but actually completely natural animals within the scope of possibility, (except for fire magic lol)

Megabird Atheism

[keen shore]

I’m 90% sure that they only turn people shaped when they hit the ground, (for example when we leave Eden we just look like a stereotypical fallen star) which doesn’t exactly rule the space life form idea out but makes it a bit weirder because why wouldn’t they look like that while already in the sky?

Plus it still doesn’t solve the question of where the actual stars are

[late wasp]

what do you mean when we leave Eden? 👀

[keen shore]

After we go through the door and get punted back to earth. I should have called it orbit, I don’t know why I didn’t

[late wasp]

||I'm half joking about Megabird Atheism, by the way, I just find it entertaining to try and find scientific explanations for the things in game||

but could be this
some lifeforms have a "defense form" - viruses crystalize, protozoa become cysts, etc.

[celest spoke]

This kind of axial wobble is technically called “precession” and does happen on a very slow scale with the Earth (~26k years, which changes the Pole Star over time)

[late wasp]

after analyzing the sun, @boreal nebula I gave up in the valley,
not because it does not follow a proper trajectory (even though likely accidental by the devs)
but because the world itself doesn't make sense with the whole "land on the clouds" lol

around the valley the world becomes a Spiral apparently, but overall:

Most of the Hidden Forest, instead of going East towards Eden, we make a sharp turn North and keep going north, up until Broken Bridges, when the level starts going North-West (aka, Away from Eden).

This Westward travel is corrected in the clouds just after Forest Temple, as we make a sharp turn to go towards Eden again, but now...

Eden is in the South-East, because we kinda turned around Eden in the Forest. So the Valley initially Approach Eden from the South-East.

When entering the first Ice Rink we are facing South. but exiting it we are facing South-East again, and the Valley Temple ends facing South-East.

[keen shore]

I wasn’t expecting a coherent map/directions to be obtainable from the game in the first place, but this is just making my brain hurt… it would be neat if the realms were kind of arranged in a spiral curling inward towards Eden, although for some reason my brain isn’t working correctly comprehending things atm and I can’t tell if that makes sense given your observations or not…

Valley being in the center is a really neat + new idea, every map I’ve seen so far assumes that Eden is the center or end (if the realms are all in a straight line) of the kingdom, which I assumed as well because it seemed like something that would be added in to drive in Eden’s importance

[half shadow]

What do we think of this then:

There’s two suns

[keen shore]

Alternatively, the world just likes to teleport around at random and no one is sure why

[rustic heron]

Here's a hot take: There is no sun. The Megabird is that bright.

[keen shore]

That might genuinely be the actual explanation, and I’m not sure how to feel about it. It would be really interesting for the entire world to get much colder over the course of the timeline because the sun itself is progressively getting weaker

Extension of this idea: does this mean Megabird is massive enough to have noticeable gravity, considering the planet seems to undergo some kind of orbit

You could go even more blatant with this and say the fact that you can’t see the sun past prairie (you can sort of see it in valley, but not well because it’s mostly below the horizon) is symbolism

[rustic heron]

It's hard to say. If we use realistic physics, we find that everything that has energy has a gravitational field. By that notion, the Megabird does have gravity, but would also be a giant ball (without any outside interaction other than gravity, most bodies will condense into a ball).

[static meteor]

what do you suppose will happen once all the spirits return to the light?

will the skykids turn dormant again or rejoin the light as well, or will they inherit what's left of the planet and become a new civilization of their own?

[rustic heron]

The notion of rebirth, and (what I believe to be) the mission of the Sky kids being to unite the stars (the Elders) and act as the central unifying figure (as the King once was), would suggest that once all the spirits return, new Ancestors would likely be sent back down, the balance of the world restored.

The cycle continues.

[keen shore]

From what I can remember the sun definitely looks… vaguely ball shaped? although just like the sun in real life, it’s hard to discern its actual shape because of how bright it is. You could go even further and say Megabird is meant to be the entire universe and the sun is just its one of its eyes

[static meteor]

another hypothetical... do you think skykids are children specifically because of the youthful innocence a child has? sort of implying that an adult cannot be as connected to the light (which i imagine is symbolic of love and friendship) as they did when they were children?

is it possible that skykids, once grounded, undergo a sort of transformation and grow into "ancestors", ans lose much of their light?

[keen shore]

This is a tough question to answer, because a fair amount of people believe skykids are just vessels for the light, so once they aren’t needed anymore, their bodies will just be abandoned. Personally I like a combo of them sticking around and new ancestors coming down too because it would be cute to see them coexist, although I haven’t thought about it very much — the future isn’t really something you can find evidence for and build a story off of

[rustic heron]

The more massive the body, the more likely it is to form a sphere. Gravitational force is only proportional to distance, and will keep pulling an object until other forces prevent it. For a sufficiently-large body, this force acting against gravity becomes uniform, and thus all points on the body will be the same distance from the center, which only occurs for spheres.

If the Megabird is as enormous as it is, it either is a ball, or there is some other force acting on it to give it a different shape.

Or magic, but I think the direction of the conversation is to explain this with our universe's physical laws.

Here’s a picture of the giant bright light during the orbit sequence (presumably the Megabird) I took recently.

[half shadow]

It’s been confirmed before by the devs that Skykids and Ancestors are different from eachother, in the sense that Skykids are almost a sub-species so they wouldnt grow up and become Ancestors though

[rustic heron]

I also encountered and interesting glitch messing around in Eden today. I got some good views of the crystal and the entire map with the statues:

Not sure how useful these will be, but I thought it couldn’t hurt to have them around for analysis.

[half shadow]

Oooo those are sweet!!

[static meteor]

oooo gotcha

[harsh pecan]

Wow :0

[half coral]

question: who or what is the king krill? like the thing in the mural in the treasure reef? i can get a photo if needed

[frigid tinsel]

I like to think of skykids as the new caretakers of the Sky world.

even if every ancestor spirit was ascended, there is still a lot of work to do. darkness seems to be as much of a force of nature as light is, yet it is wildly unbalanced thanks to the ancestors' actions. skykids are acting as a force to restore balance. maybe they cannot, at least right now, clean up all the pollution in Golden Wasteland or stop the Eden crystal from spitting out corrupted darkstone, but they carve paths of light through all that darkness to make them survivable or, dare I say, comfortable. the Forgotten Ark is now a cozy pearl in the Wasteland. skykids can venture through the Eden storm to complete the journey to ascension. they save spirits and creatures alike from the grasp of darkness. with every new area unveiled to them, the skykids liven it up tangibly and emotionally just by being there.

it's all little efforts, but they are effective, mounting up to great changes in the long run. of course children can't do much on their own, but skykids are much more powerful thus much more capable. the sometimes applied descriptor of "angels" is rather accurate, I would say.

their purpose is here now, on the Sky world, their responsibility. that's why they keep being reborn, because even if all the ancestor spirits are freed and ascended, the skykids' mission isn't complete.

perhaps that's why ancestors are not being reborn. they failed their responsibility to the Sky world and Megabird no longer trusts them. but their experiences, their failures and successes, are not invaluable, so they are allowed to descend to teach the skychildren.

[half coral]

never mind my camera isnt working

[rustic heron]

I can do it. I need to get pictures of his stomach, anyway.

[half coral]

thanks sm much, im on thr switch so i was gonna get a photo of the mural but my phone camera isnt working

[keen shore]

It’s really interesting to see theories about Megabird viewing an entire group of people as monolithic in opinions and actions, as in thinking all ancestors caused or failed to prevent the disaster instead of just some of them being blamed, ESPECIALLY when you combine that with the whole “Megabird is a conglomerate of everyone’s souls” idea where it would be made up of everyone and would inherently know about all the differences in opinions, personalities, and so on. (does this make sense, I feel like it doesn’t but I’m struggling to phrase it better)
&
if the idea that I currently think is canon of Megabird saying the intro is correct, it also means this monolithic thinking is probably not an instinctual lashing out at a group of people who have hurt it, but an intelligent and thought out decision, which makes it even more interesting, because it implies that the monolithic way of thinking about ancestors is actually correct

I personally don’t believe that Megabird actually thinks in such a monolithic manner if that makes sense just because it leads to that conclusion, which doesn’t seem right… unless the ancestors weren’t varied people like we are and are much more… I don’t want to say hivemindy? but like vessels for the same entity like skykids might be

although I currently don’t have an explanation for why no more ancestors are being reborn. maybe it’s something as simple as they can’t survive in the current environment

[half coral]

does he attack you?

what is he, anyway

[rustic heron]

No, he doesn't. He does have stomach cavity, which the pictures show. He consumed me (you can glitch inside his model from the bottom).

[frigid tinsel]

maybe a god's absolutist considerations over a group of people is just a reflection of my upbringing. I do think it's unfair to judge and punish a group as a whole when individuals mess up, but it's not the first thought that comes to mind. likewise there are many stories in many mythologies where the group as a whole suffers for the actions of a few.

if this is an intelligent and thought out decision on behalf of Megabird and the ancestors now compose Megabird, it could be a question of numbers. were there more ancestors who, upon reflecting on their collective impact on the Sky world, took on a more misanthropic viewpoint of themselves than those who believed they deserved a second chance? were there compromises between the two sides?

when a collectivist hivemind acts out as one, is it the sum of all the opinions every individual makes or is a democratic process?

[keen shore]

I’m late but I was thinking about this. Originally I didn’t give it too much thought because songs being used as a medium for oral history is a neat detail, but I didn’t think it was too much beyond that.
Unless… hear me out…
So the in game music has several patterns of notes that repeat across different areas. Not too weird, right?
And this poem implies that it wasn’t singing that the history was told through but just instruments without it. What if each song actually tells the history of each area, and since they’re part of an interconnected kingdom, obviously there are common parts because there are events influencing the whole kingdom

[rustic heron]

It's contingent on the acceptance that there is a self. Some religions and philosophies see the self as separate from the a whole, and some believe the self is a delusion, blocking the vision of the whole.

I don't believe in a self or a whole, as I'm Buddhist. The delusion that is the self is core to my beliefs.

[keen shore]

I believe that the numbers explanation is still a little odd considering a sapient species similar enough to ancestors to make the same decisions was sent down directly post disaster — as in, it wouldn’t make much of a difference between the two. If they believe one group had a negative impact on the world as a whole, why make the decision to send out what is essentially a sequel to that species? Unless you believe skykids aren’t capable of making the same decisions, either due to being some kind of vessel or some new weird Anti Disaster programming, which is a whole other rabbithole

Whichever of the two it is — sum of opinions or democratic process — I have to wonder how long it takes. Is the reason why it took so long for skykids to appear after the disaster had happened that it simply wasn’t safe for them yet, or was it the fact that Megabird just hadn’t come to a decision yet? And if it is either of these, is Megabird capable of rebelling against itself?

[keen shore]

I could be wrong but I believe the concept of self still exists post ascension to some degree, because if it didn’t, the spirits would just vanish after we ascended them. They wouldn’t exist as an identifiable and separate being anymore, they’d just be part of the same whole

Again, this thought is mostly intuition

[rustic heron]

Absence of the self is very counterintuitive, and doesn't work for most works of fiction. Sky almost certainly relies on a notion of the self.

I tend to think that the King is of the same as the Elders. He's a Elder-like being made physical. The Megabird entrusted the Elders to guide the spirits collectively from Orbit, but they descended. The King was meant to unite the Elders, but he decided to act on his own.

His hubris split him, and the Megabird called to the King again to learn what i meant to unite the Elders and guide the spirits once more.

[keen shore]

Oh!! I’m sorry, I reread the original message and now I can’t tell why I thought you meant that it applied to the world of sky somehow. It did make me think for a few minutes if that was actually the case, though, until I thought of the spirit thing. Apart from that it would make a lot of sense to be applicable here (given that parliament god is a bit odd and kind of funny to think about)

I’m still thinking about the whole elders are supposed to be in orbit idea. There’s no immediately obvious evidence ingame proving it right or wrong other than an interpretation of the intro, (which to be fair there’s like 50 of those) so I’m still considering it

[rustic heron]

I’m still thinking about the whole elders are supposed to be in orbit idea. There’s no immediately obvious evidence ingame proving it right or wrong other than an interpretation of the intro, (which to be fair there’s like 50 of those) so I’m still considering it

I think there is. When you complete a constellation, the Elder shows up, but is lit up (there has to be a more elegant way of putting this, but oh well). When Elders are lit up, they are once again connected to the Light, and we're the ones awakening the Elders.

Reliving spirit memories is the way we connect with the Elders, as Ancestors embodied their Elder in their life and action. We're children because children have no preconceptions about the world: they just learn and grow.

The Elders only show up in orbit once you fully understand them (complete their constellation).

[frigid tinsel]

I don't believe skykids are capable of the ruination ancestors did, not because of some anti-disaster programming or a lack of sapience or whatever, but because they don't have insatiable desires the ancestors did. skykids don't need to eat. ancestors did and preyed on other beings. skykids can fly. ancestors didn't and utilized darkstone & power diamond technology to achieve it with disastrous results. skykids are fulfilled by the light within them and their companions. ancestors, as far as we understand, lacked self-sufficient light and had to claim it from others.

if a collectivist hivemind composed of those that lacked were to consider how to create a species that wouldn't destroy the world in its pursuit to fulfill its needs, it has multitudes of experiences to consider what it lacked and the power to make that ensure that new species isn't lacking thus won't pursue and dominate in order to fulfill those needs. those needs simply wouldn't exist for them, so they won't seek to fulfill them.

it's also possible a hivemind (collectivist or not) is able to come to conclusions beyond the sum of individuals thinking apart. we could put our heads by deliberating and come to an agreement, but we could never aptly merge our thought processes and experiences as one.

[frigid tinsel]

Lorechat talking about god again:

[rustic heron]

I think putting an objective lens on it loses part of the spiritual meaning. The world cannot be stopped from changing; sometimes that change looks like catastrophe. Life is not so special that the changing nature of the universe would revolve around it, and sapience even less so.

We tend to have a very egocentric worldview, so much so that imagining a universe, a deific figure, without sapience is difficult to empathize with. Perhaps there doesn't need to be sky kids or ancestors. Perhaps sky kids are only here to return to where they came from.

One of the best things about having that decentralized viewpoint is that it removes the worry of what happens when we (or ancestors or skykids) are not here. We're just a change in the universe, and our absence will be another change. Everything moves on.

[olive halo]

sometimes you lore so hard you reinvent buddhism

[weak osprey]

Sounds about right

[keen shore]

I really like the interpretation of giving skykids easy access to all the thing ancestors lacked and destroyed things for, and I am probably going to steal a variation of this concept for a non sky related story sometime because I like it so much but I do wonder how they would deal with things unconnected to desperation for those things that you can’t really get rid of in the same way —

Things like greed for power, just enjoying cruelty, selfishness, all those kinds of things — you can do things like say they no longer need food or light, so they don’t ever feel the need to hoard and take those things from others and be selfish over it; it’s just not a concern to them, but then they can still be selfish about other things. Maybe they don’t have to hunt so they never realize their capacity for cruelty, but they can always express it towards each other and other beings, for fun. Maybe you make it so they don’t have to rely on others to survive, so they don’t need to manipulate others for their own survival, but even then they still might do it for fun. And so on… you can mitigate it, but it’s near impossible to get rid of it fully, and then it all happens over again

[keen shore]

the nature of lorechat is that every so often we randomly reinvent religions

[rustic heron]

That's an excellent point. You can't eradicate attachment. Cruelty exists when we are attached to things we want at the expense of the happiness of others. Skykids may not need things, but attachment still exists because attachment isn't always dependent on need. It is the desire of a beings aligning with environment and their bodies that causes pleasure, and their disalignment that causes suffering.

Just because Skykids don't have many bodily needs doesn't mean that attachment goes away. And I think it's important that it doesn't, as that experience, and the realization of its unstoppable-ness, is what allows the Skykids to grow beyond their Ancestors. Skykids come to know the world through hardship, and then come to understand the ancestors.

This allows them to, I believe, make the final decision to go to Eden. There's nothing forcing any of the Skykids to go to Eden, and certainly nothing forcing them to go into Eden again. Yet in the Elders cutscene in Vault, our Skykid comes to an acceptance, beyong their fear or reservations, to go into Eden and come to terms with a changing reality, one that is not appealing.

[harsh plover]

daaamn brothers you have a lot of thinks to talk always

[rustic heron]

Yeah. There's a reason why a lore channel exists. Imagine seeing these walls of text in general chat.

[keen shore]

[massive several paragraph wall of text detailing the origins and nature of god]
Next post: hope my favorite spirit comes back as ts this week :]

[rustic heron]

Normal Sky user: "Ah, I'm gonna settle down and enjoy some nice chit-chat in cozy".

Insane lore theorist: "Hey guys, does Megabird exist, and does the resulting existential crisis prevent skykids from confronting their King-like persona hidden within the imploding diamond in Eden?"

Normal Sky user:

Lore chat is basically the ark of the covenant. The uninitiated may have their faces melted off.

[harsh plover]

jaja youre right

[frigid tinsel]

the only reason I tolerate it is cos I lost my mind years ago

[keen shore]

Everyone else tries to act normal and forget about us… but we’re still here… cackling evilly from the walls

[keen shore]

Not entirely sure I was sane to begin with so can’t tell the difference

[hushed steeple]

Sometimes I think about past lore peeps. How lookin at the lorechat a year or 2 ago reveals people I never met and never talked to. How the people who explained things to myself are no more. And how its prolly gonna happen again at some point when I drop off lore sometime.

[rustic heron]

||The true intent behind lore chat is to arm Chackling Cannoneer with as much weaponry as possible by delving into the lore and recreating ancestor technology.

That way, Cannoneer can storm the TGC hQ and retrieve the lore bible for us, and finally give us a little peace of mind.||

I MEAN HAHA METAPHYSICS RELIGION and did Ancestors ever cook light craetures hahaha!

[keen shore]

Hey! Don’t say the plan here where they can see it!

[frigid tinsel]

but yea, you and @rustic heron are right. skykids would still have desires, but they don't have these destructive desires the ancestors did. I don't think Megabird is all-knowing or else the ancestors' calamity wouldn't have happened – They'd prevent it, surely. but that goes down a rabbit hole of questions I'm too tired to start with.

[rustic heron]

Or maybe there was nothing the Megabird could do to stop it. It was bound to happen due to the inherent shifting nature of reality.

[keen shore]

It is really interesting thinking about a god that both doesn’t know everything immediately and is curious to know more and that being the entire reason behind existence. It is much different from the gods I am used to

[frigid tinsel]

what makes a god?

[rustic heron]

I can't get the image out of my head that Cackling Cannoneer, at some point, was rushing some enemy force alone as Fortunate son plays in the background, armed to the teeth with every weapon imaginable, and several unimaginable.

A la Rambo.

[keen shore]

It’s late at night and I’m not fully awake enough to discuss complex spiritual concepts, (although I am VERY down for it in the morning), so does anyone want to hear my horrible gender joke theory

[rustic heron]

Pondering the existence of fictional gods is tiresome. Some jokes would be a nice breather.

[keen shore]

Also can you imagine if the entire disaster was caused by Megabird just so it could experience what disaster and war felt like

[half shadow]

Hey, I think it’s marginally less tiresome than pondering the existence of real gods. And yes I always want to hear gender theory

[keen shore]

Okay here goes

-> king and belonging ancestor are the only two entities? regularly or (probably) accidentally given gendered pronouns (he and she respectively)
-> saw theory a while ago that belonging family seems to be pretty rich given ornate clothes

Conclusion: belonging family got rich from belonging ancestor creating the concept of gender and immediately selling it for 100000000 skydollars

[frigid tinsel]

just like bathrooms

[half shadow]

JUST like bathrooms

[keen shore]

Imagine being made fun of because you’re too broke to have a gender

[half shadow]

sky king made gender nfts 😔

[keen shore]

This is definitely not canon but just the idea of a gender store is funny enough to me to make up for it

[frigid tinsel]

I also just made this

[keen shore]

Gender = real cause of the disaster

[half shadow]

(although technically anybody regardless of gender can use he/him or she/her but i understand the joke and think it’s funny as well)

[rustic heron]

This is a damn iconic line. Gonna be keeping that one for later.

[keen shore]

The sparkler parent was sneaking into the area near the valley temple to secretly build gendered bathrooms and sow the idea of gender among the common unsuspecting people.., it’s all coming together

[half shadow]

dear god. it’s clear why the society fell

[rustic heron]

Random Spirit: How did your family get so rich?
Great Great Great grandchild of Belonging Family: You silly genderless peasant. We invented bathrooms and pronouns.

[keen shore]

The belonging family all died from getting smited after god discovered they were the ones who invented gender

[rustic heron]

The King created the Eden disaste because he was fed up with the 1,000 different genders being created and destroyed each day, and all the available real estate was occupied by bathrooms for each gender.

[keen shore]

All the houses in valley are just 10000 different gendered bathrooms made to sustain the gender economy, everyone had to sleep outside

[rustic heron]

He had to collapse the gender-based economy somehow.
Gender became the bitcoin of Sky world.
"How much for this bread, baker?"
"80 genders, please. No, wait, now it's 2,000. Strike that, it's 5."

[keen shore]

The king is not the villain, the belonging ancestor is. If we’re not careful they’ll try to teach us about gender too!!

[imagine a spirit desperately trying to explain the concept of gender to a confused skykid who has no idea what’s going on]

I mean, we know there was a class divide in valley but we don’t know what the currency was and it’s not like there’s coins lying around we can find. Maybe they traded in gender

[frigid tinsel]

skykid: sounds like a mlm scheme
Spirit: a what

[rustic heron]

Spirit: Hey kid, want this mask? It's only 8 neopronouns.
Sky kid: Who's neo, and what did you do to them???
Spirit: No, I don't take them-coin.
Sky kid: panic

[keen shore]

Beginning to sympthaize with the king in this hypothetical situation ngl

[frigid tinsel]

cries in genderfluid

[rustic heron]

That just means you're an Ancestor currency converter

[keen shore]

alasdair = ancestor atm

“I got scammed, the gender I bought keeps changing into different ones!!”

[frigid tinsel]

Y’all, I got genderfluid coming out of my eyes. I’m like the fountain of youth

[rustic heron]

Ancestor advisor: "Sire, there's rampant classism/gender discrimnation throughout the Kingdom, and the economy is, metaphorically speaking, an enormous crater".

King: Sighs with his head in his hands Activate the Eden Nuke.

King: I would've stayed in the primordial orbit soup if I'd known there was gonna be Kingdoms like this.

[half shadow]

King’s gender is MONARCH

[keen shore]

I have to sleep but I keep getting distracted by the gender economy

[frigid tinsel]

Now I’d destroy the world for that gender

[rustic heron]

You know how Isle Elder got his mask bashed in? He put it up for collateral when buying 300 shares of Elder gender.

[keen shore]

False, isle elder is blatantly opposed to gender (why all the other elders hate them)

What is wasteland elders gender… spear??

[frigid tinsel]

They’re bigender, spear and shield

[keen shore]

Going to tell new people that whenever they come in here thinking everyone has genders to begin with

[rustic heron]

Forest Elder's gender is HAMMER.

[weary escarp]

…so the mantas are not native to the reef

well, goes to show how far they went in light research to the point of capturing light creatures

I assume the crew was salvaging power diamonds post-collapse…for reasons, perhaps just longevity

[boreal nebula]

Yes, indeed. Precession is so slow I think only in a million years our Earth Axis will change from pointing to Polar Star (iirc, cannot be sure if this is english name too) to Vega (or Altair.. , but I pretty sure on Vega ||After reading about Hikoboshi and Orihime japanese legend I started confusing between the two stars)

[boreal nebula]

Nice job, well done

I Ddidnt know we could peak at the sun in Forest too

Btw I dont know if in Box of Courage (GW themed) this poem is just using north as a figurative speech

[tawdry whale]

fhstfndbbsfavsfn

forest elders gender is girlboss prairies is malewife no i do not take criticism

[harsh plover]

well brothers i tried to get my girlfriend back but it didn't work so now im going for a drink

[tawdry whale]

th.. this is the lore chat... gf lore

[harsh plover]

goodnight gentleman

[cosmic willow]

good night azrael take care

[boreal nebula]

We should indeed give off heat, we have a flame for a heart and our cape is assumed to be made of light (like flames not casting a shadows IRL) the question would be about how much our whole body (allegedly made of clay) since ceramic is a good insulatiom material

It could also be that most of destruction was Eden based, but I wonder why there is no ceiling at all in the broken temple and stuctur beyond with just pillars and no ceiling that was there if it was similar to Forest Temple. One of my theories is that krills attacked and threw far away most of them blocks (maybe strong winds helped carrying away those crumbles)

I agree on the desertification, it works along like this even IRL beaches witd dunes extending farther and farther

Mmm, saving energy by phasing just during preying I like the sound of that

[harsh plover]

[boreal nebula]

I am not sure if all the stars fell, but still it's an interesting question, which stars fell? Why not that sun?

[naive flare]

Here’s a picture of the giant bright light during the orbit sequence (presumably the Megabird) I took recently.
@rustic heron Mega bird is not the one ball, its the constellation of the entire galaxy, at the end of the credits you see the whole constellation light up :)

Usually, yes

But since our "compass" points to Eden, it would be better to simplify the concept here

After all, there could be many things unlike our own planet in a different planet, like different rotation, a "day" could even last less than a "year" (consider how Mercury is almost always with the same face facing Sun in our Solar System, and how fast it revolve around the Sun before even finishing a rotation around itself)

Or even gravity (those damn skykids, can they jump gracefully because of the gravity or because they float?)
@boreal nebula if the sun is possibly just the light creature in orbit, does itself have to actually be setting in any specific cardinal direction?

[late wasp]

LMAO filter censored my harder version of lmao
i spit water when I saw this, it's so good LOL

[undone harbor]

Lore chat is a different breed from other sky players

[late wasp]

lore chat appreciate the game more deeply

*lorechat player sees a pebble in the ground of prairie?*

"what are the lore implications of this pebble????"

*proceeds to spend 2 hours thinking about a pebble and how it relates to the king and the cannoneer*

[undone harbor]

It’s either bug finders or lore theorists, there’re no crazy in between
lore theorist studies the story deeply and make something out of it
Bug finders studies the game mechanics deeply then make something game-breaking out of it

[late wasp]

oh my god, I forgot we have a new quest today, brb

[boreal nebula]

Mmm, maybe in one cardinal direction, yes, tho I think that is not the sun, because Eden Castle is pretty night time, and the sun get far from Edenbeacon in some maps

[harsh pecan]

Lol

[boreal nebula]

How did that happen? What were you doing? Is a bit similar to this I got yesterday in Treasure Reef
#screenshots-and-videos message

[orchid jolt]

What im saying is that the actual head shape doesn't really match. The leviathan's head gets thinner in a concave way while the whale's head gets thinner in a convex way. This doesn't mean it isn't a corrupted whale or anything, but it is something very different between them

[boreal nebula]

Yeah, the sun change position alot, for example when I enter Valley is clearly on the right (behind the Bloom saappling) and in Ice Rink it seems closer to the split mountain of Copitadel, but once we enter there, it's alittle bit shifted to the right (and further from how I would have guessed near the Split Mountain)

But since Citadel was added in a second fase of Light Awaits (and IMHO they forgot to place the Beacon) I wonder how much of these is left to a stylistic choice/forgetfullness of devs

I suppose only in Village Of Dreams we get a clear idea, since (even without Beaco)n we can have the stadium as fixed point (but it relatively too near us while a beacon far away would be better to study the positions)

[late wasp]

new idea - consider how staying close to other skids or creatures our light recharges. this means that a more sustainable source of energy would be to just chain a creature somewhere and let them recharge machinery passively.

this could be an explanation for the aquariums, the trapped mantas were probably keeping some sort of mechanism fully recharged all the time, but now we let them free.

[boreal nebula]

Yeah, nnot the chain part, but yess, I think Ancestors used the phenomenon of Magnetic Inductiom to recharge / harness energy!

ARTIFICIAL STARS !
Revolutionary cruelty free product!
now 100% without manta grinding/juicing

[late wasp]

[boreal nebula]

What else could be the hidden , message?

There are just 2/6 2/5 pr 2/4 of that rotating part or something more that they keep a secret just for the hype?

Dang, I cannot save the video of that pin rotation

Oddly it's a .txt

[late wasp]

I love this so much. they have definitely the best drip in all of sky

[neat flint]

I need the pin-

[late wasp]

aaaaah now I understand why the poems are so... simple?
it's because they have to work in other languages too, so it acquires some Haiku simplicity to the writing.

[olive halo]

hi lorechat what are we up to today

[nimble ingot]

The true north part could be a reference to finding one's own true heading.
I could be wrong.

A true north in navigation would be much better than a false one, I presume.
That and there is such a thing as a north star, so it could also indirectly suggest the wastelanders were starting to lose their way and lost sight of the star in Eden.

[late wasp]

I have to say Sanctuary really bothers me lol.
there are no sign of even the Isle of Dawn, which would be visible from Sanctuary...
it makes it look like Clouds can be used as Portals to different dimensions

[boreal nebula]

Once I pressumed the windvane on the top of Sanctuary Bells points towards WindPaths, but it seems too much on open ocean

[harsh plover]

How did it go ?

[late wasp]

Resulted in teb's new commercial product @harsh plover LOL!
(if you scroll up you can see what led to this, I think they were using the imprisoned mantas as a battery)

[harsh plover]

😂😂😂

[late wasp]

@boreal nebula

[raw moth]

Any lore on third quest

Does it mean that they were using the power diamonds we're diving for to keep the Manta Containment Field™️ up

[late wasp]

this is the level of fashion I one day hope to achieve in real life

[thorny zealot]

So I did something.

[late wasp]

Sky Gameplay: *honk honk honk*

[noble sparrow]

hjonk

[tawdry whale]

what's the realistic skykid art from? i wanna see it in hd

[late wasp]

It's an ancestor. It's from Sky's trailer for the Nintendo Switch

[tawdry whale]

oo

o my goodness this is a cinematic

[sudden saffron]

So I got clipped through the map and I gotta say this is 1 big fish, and we thought the krill were large 👀

[south badger]

ruby :)

[boreal creek]

[orchid jolt]

nice photo. (btw, I would spoiler it since it is an oob of something that will be unlocked later in the season, but you don't really need to spoiler it since this is lore chat and its in live game but just thought i should mention it lol)

[boreal creek]

I know but i really want edit this photo TwT

[orchid jolt]

? what do you mean? you can edit it and spoiler tag it i think...

[boreal creek]

There Is a spoiler tag?

[orchid jolt]

You on mobile or pc? If you're on pc/laptop then just click the eye button when you attach the image

[boreal creek]

I am on laptop

[orchid jolt]

when you attach the image, there should be an eye icon. press it

[boreal creek]

Thanks for ask

Ok i understand

[orchid jolt]

Oh, ok. Glad I could help!

[boreal creek]

Sorry for problem spoiler TwT

[orchid jolt]

bro, its ok. you technically didnt need to since its part of the live game, but i just mentioned it since its not yet supposed to be reachable (through conventional methods/not oobing) lol

[late wasp]

did my weekly eden run (back to Lv 5 mediocrity)
even in the section after the crystal we see lots of Scholar Statues.

further makes me think Vault Elder was the leader of the civilization before the King.

[harsh plover]

Nice

[rustic heron]

I was messing around with being cape less, and had 1 wing. I got into Eden (I had someone let me in), and I skipped to PNR (I grabbed one extra wl, so 2 total at PNR).

After losing all my light, I turned into the blue spark and was launched upward, above the Diamond. There was no one else with me at the time.

[safe linden]

Why would tgc add this- the golden wastelands were scary enough!

[nimble ingot]

not if you have been in the game long enough, bud 🙂

[safe linden]

That is terrifying- what is this? Subnautica?

[nimble ingot]

It is a bit of a spoiler since there is no official access to it yet.
Though yeah, I also got vibes there. 🙂

[lofty void]

yes it is

i swear to gosh, GW has always been Subnautica

[safe linden]

I love the golden wastelands aesthetically, but not actually playing it

Thats scary and i don't like it

[gritty mauve]

not actually, if you found all the ||Colored Lightbolls|| on the ||Forgotten Ark||

[safe linden]

What are those? I know the ark but whats a ||coloured lightbolls||

[ember elbow]

||i think they mean LightBalls||

[safe linden]

Ah, still dont know what they are lol

[ember elbow]

theyre part of the quests tied to that area. ||talk to the spirit in the middle of the circular pond to start the quests. It will have you go fetch various colours of light floating around. some of them get your heart pumping.||

[safe linden]

Oh yeah I already did that lol, i thought maybe they helped in that area with like an item or smth

[rustic heron]

Do we need spoilers in lore chat? Not to sound impudent or anything, but if you’re in lore chat I feel you need to be automatically prepared for spoilers.

I’m honestly looking for some clarity; I have no issue throwing up spoilers if that’s the overall policy.

[ember elbow]

i guess we dont really? personally felt itd be considerate since everything previously was spoilered. but spoilers is in the name

[boreal nebula]

Mmm.. something is right with this marketing line

||A Beard! Any merchant must have an exotic style ||
Really cool idea!

[late wasp]

[keen shore]

Enchantment spirits are only beaten in best seasonal spirits by prophecy spirits (and tied with flight spirits)

[rustic heron]

Gosh, I remember that episode of Futurama. It was hell of an emotional rollercoaster.

[stark marten]

Generally spoiler tags aren't really needed here. If you want to spoiler tag something because it's from a recent quest that maybe not everyone has completed yet, or something that can only be accessed by going oob like ||the red-eyed sea monster|| then you can do that. But usually there aren't really spoiler tags in this channel because yeah it should be expected that you will encounter game spoilers here from the name

[boreal nebula]

Niiice, you were very lucky ||even a friend leading you inside!||

The only time I entered in Eden with 1 WL I conceived a chair trick to pass 1/20 barrier

[rustic heron]

You can chibi-fall in a hill at home and swim underneath the barrier, too. I just found it easier having someone lead me inside.

Using tables is harder since their placement is disabled near the barrier, but it’s possible. I’ve done it near a number of barriers.

[half shadow]

do you guys think we can spoiler block all screenshots of the next few quests content even if their ingame? i am such a fan of large aquatic beasts and i want to be fully surprised by whatever it is

[boreal nebula]

@rustic heron Indeed, but I simply tapped the chair near the barrier, easy placement behind it, but swimming wasn't an option back then

It was useful to figure out later on to get inside acquarium

[half shadow]

i’m the opposite of a thalassophobic. thalassophile?

anyways geez shout out to the poor skykids with thalassophobia this season

the aquarium stuff in this last quest is reminding me a lot of ABZU which is a blast

[rustic heron]

Reposting to spoiler for my fishy compatriot:

|| If that’s the case:

I tried getting a full view of this boi:
Look at the size of this lad. Absolute unit. I think he’s bigger than the Dunkleosteus we see in Underground Forest||

[rustic heron]

Abzu was amazing. The final section with all the ancient fish and aquatic reptiles was exquisite.

[half shadow]

for real!! I’m already getting those vibes with the sunken temple structures. also with the sound, which I don’t usually have on when I play because I like to listen to my own music, but just last night I turned it up in my headphones and was getting chills

[rustic heron]

Oh, sorry, I didn’t mean new swimming. I meant that underneath the home map (all maps) is the invisible water you swim on top of. At home, it’s just underneath the map, so you can swim beneath the barrier like in ye olden days.

[boreal nebula]

Idk what you think about that, but to me those seem 2 far away water pumping stations (like the one on the left side of GW first area)

[half shadow]

I just hope we don’t get JUMPSCARED BY A SHARK like in ABZU. both of the times I’ve played the game fully that first moment you see the shark and it bites your little robot guy I jumped in my chair and yelled even when I expected it the second time

[rustic heron]

My guy out here with not one, but two pairs of horns. Iconic.

[half shadow]

I was just about to comment on that, that’s some style right there

But yeah those do look like water treatment or pumping facilities don’t they? They also lowkey look like Guardians from BOTW ha

[boreal nebula]

2 pairs of horns
2 far away bugs
XD

[half shadow]

TGC let me into the abandoned water treatment plant I promise I won’t swim in it (i absolutely will)

[nimble ingot]

a UFO Factory lol

[boreal nebula]

Is it so strange? It was quite the trend last year ...
Whoever got both mixed them together

[boreal nebula]

🛸

[nimble ingot]

would a sky boat count as a UFO if it was fast enough?

[half shadow]

no that’s when I see an unlit moth zoom past at mach speeds, they’re the unidentified flying object

[nimble ingot]

lmao, I can stand by that 👍

[rustic heron]

You know, I would love it if items and cosmetics had little lore bits of description, like in Dark Souls. Dark Souls really had a great way of telling the story and lore for only those willing to find it, by simply having it in item descriptions.

I feel like Sky could do the same, and it wouldn’t impact the rest of the community too much.

[boreal nebula]

RANDOM THOUGHT

With the update Pointing Spirit I think that is the lowest ramp, because the boat is loaded with lots of wares

The one being barrier is the Luxury 1st Class, because it wasn't for anyone to pass the bouncers xD

[half shadow]

what’s really cool about Isle is we get to see a second of how it used to look like in the Switch trailer

[boreal nebula]

I Wish we could see all Realms as they once were !

Statue of god Apis (Ancient Egypt, 7th - 6th century BC)
Me (SKY, 2021 - 2022)

I need to find back the book with a note about Apis that seems to fit in Sky too

[half shadow]

HA that’s so cool omg. That hair works so well with the mask!

I feel like there’s a fun amount of Egyptian mythos inspiration in a lot of mask designs that resemble animals, especially those from Prophecy

[boreal nebula]

I did this a week ago

First meme was the day before... but... I hoped we could freed them sooner xD

[half shadow]

@boreal nebula Isn’t Apis directly associated with greatness and kings? That’s kind of fun relating to Sky

[boreal nebula]

Anyway, have you wondered why there is no markings/decorations on any of these golden "containers" in Treasure Reef?

[half shadow]

I’m much more learned on Greek mythology and religion myself but Egyptian myth is intensely fascinating as well

I think that those are bells? There’s a few ones in the Sanctuary Isles laying around, I can’t remember what they actually do though

[boreal nebula]

Mmm, not sure about kings, pharaons usuallly called themselves either son or Ra itself, the Sun God

Apis maybe was about... idk, agricolture

[half shadow]

I believe that the Apis bull was a son of Hathor, who was the goddess of the sky and seen as the mother of the pharaohs. I think he was about agriculture too!

[rustic heron]

I’m not so sure that they are bells. There’s quite a few in the shipwreck in Gw, and some on the Star Collector’s ship in Starlight Desert.

Chimes tend to be the spinning meditation wheels we see at Home space, Sanctuary, and other places.

Perhaps these were used to store valuable things?

[half shadow]

Yeah, I only really called them bells due to the sound they make when you land on them lol. The weird hole-designs in them are interesting as well.

[distant turtle]

Some are upside down and they have a smooth lower half. Is this why?

[lusty merlin]

I’ve been wondering what the significance of masks are in sky culture.

Masks are usually used to hide identity but I wonder if it’s taboo to not have a mask on or if certain spirits can be maskless, like maskless (pink cape) and the call spirits don’t wear a mask

Like is mask making a highly skilled art and do the masks auctally do something to the spirits? Not to mention Ash said spirits with animal masks “relate to the role they had when they once lived” so masks must have some sort of power.

We can see spirits eyes with maskless but for sky-kids out eyes are closed for some reason, even with cannoneer mask that’s half broken our eyes are open

But most of the elders wear masks (except ) so it makes me confused if it’s a hierarchy thing that’s optional to do or not, just been thinking about it

[rigid mural]

Ayin does wear a mask tho, you can get the same from Exhausted Dock worker !

[lusty merlin]

Ah right, I guess I mean fully covering the face as diamond eyes usually mean maskless for spirts

Still find it weird sky-kids close their eyes when we’re maskless tho, I never understood it

[rigid mural]

no mask ayin would be so cursed

[lusty merlin]

PPPFTTT

[nimble ingot]

That is just what the maskless aesthetic looks like.
The look of the skykid is unique to the 'mask' in the game.
It would have looked odd if the skykid were to walk around with their dark faces and glowing eyes.

I suppose the devs could not just turn the eye lights off, since a skykid's eyes are not like headlights. So, the solution of the eyes being closed are supposedly a better option.
We can see the eyes are closed, since we can see the eye lids/lashes. If they were not there, then it would have looked odd to see the face with no details for eyes at all.

[lusty merlin]

Definitely true game design wise, it would look weird, but lore wise it makes me overthink way to much

[rigid mural]

Cackling Cannoneer's mask does show the skin beneath the mask + open eyes

[frigid tinsel]

Flashback to me obsessing over skykids’ eyes

[nimble ingot]

lorewise, I assume the skykid would look and have glowing eyes.
The game being open ended gives player the freedom to use what they can see in the game as a starting point for their own fanon/headcanons.

I am not a fan of the blind skykid theory. Though accept it as a fan theory.

[frigid tinsel]

Video and pics of observations of skykids’ eyes in Cannoneer’s mask: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[lusty merlin]

Yeah I appreciate the openness but I also loathe it at the same time

I just want some solid lore-

[rigid mural]

bro what, did i seriously get censored on something as dumb as qult

[lusty merlin]

I’ll take any elder crumbs, I’m starving for any elder content

[rigid mural]

Someone here suggested that the masks could be a religious thing when not a profession thing; so perhaps spirits whose jobs do not require a mask and who dont feel the need to wear one for religious purposes may go maskless

[frigid tinsel]

Additionally, not wearing masks could be a countercultural thing

[lusty merlin]

Yeah I was thinking of that too! Could be the most realistic idea as to why, profession and counter cultural would probably explain everything

[half shadow]

i think you mean blessed

[lusty merlin]

I mean masks can get a bit stuffy after wearing one for awhile so a full face mask might do the same thing, maybe hiding identify was a big culture thing, hence masks. but maybe certain spirits (pink cape and some call spirits) want that to change and express themselves

[frigid tinsel]

I don’t think masks made of light would have that issue, but you got a point

[half shadow]

I feel like Ancestors had a much more traditional meaning behind their masks, and that they could be used to indicate their rank in society or their occupation. Because Skykids are seemingly made to resemble Ancestor children though, they probably don’t have as much of a cultural impact, hence why we are able to collect so many different kinds

[lusty merlin]

Are spirits even made of light? Either that or I’m thinking to hard on this

[half shadow]

Masks are made of stone, that’s a confirmed canon thing I believe

[frigid tinsel]

Spirits are beings of light, but ancestors when they were alive are not

[lusty merlin]

Ah oki!

Yeah I think im overthinking and stuff again but the traditional and identity stuff still stands and all

[nimble ingot]

In game design dictates the spirits are just souls.
The colour blue represents the mortal souls of the ancestors, fragile, needs help, and seeks out the light.
The colours orange and yellow however represents the flame, holiness, the light and indirectly the Megabird (the bird like deity of the game, giver of light and life).

When spirits are ascended, they are closer to the light. Which tints their blueish colour to a more golden appearance.
This not only indicates this spirit is ascended to skykids, but also they now carry a light within them.

So, in short, I believe the spirits may not be made of light per say, though can accept light as a part of them.

[lusty merlin]

Imma just write this down in my sky theories that I believe can be cannon booklet

[frigid tinsel]

Skykids’ cosmestics are made of light, so also don’t have to lug around a ton of masks. They can just transform or dissipate masks out of their light whenever they want.

I know a dev said masks are made of stone, but it doesn’t make sense in regards to skykids. When a skykid delights, they lose all their cosmestics, including their mask. So the masks have to be made of light. They are also rather disconnected from ancestor culture so they don’t know the cultural significance of the masks them emulate.

For ancestors, their masks were probably made of stone. Perhaps that’s what the dev was referring to. It’s more obvious with the Abyss crew because the cr-cks in their masks suggest stone or a similar material

[nimble ingot]

Skykids seem to have some amount of magic in them.

They can summon a candle from their chests at will, they can fly, are fireproof and able to create light particles with certain emotes.
With the aid of props, they can summon physical objects out of thin air.

Perhaps the mask is a physical object on the skykid, though one that the skykid maintains. Which is why whenever they lose their lights, they are stripped of their cosmetics.
Save for a remnant of their capes. The reason for that is the cape is likely where the winged lights are stored.

When a skykid joins the game for the first time, they are capeless. This is because they do not have any winged light.
When a skykid loses all of their winged light, that is when they lose their capes.
Reading in between the lines would also reveal that winged light can easily translate to a skykid's capes. Something that grants them flight and is made of light.

[keen shore]

Hold on let me test something… crack
We can say crack it’s not a curse word!!!!

[ember elbow]

all i have to say is i got an irl friend to play with me the other night and he asked me: "what is this game even about? what are you supposed to do?"

i s2g my brain broke while trying to think of an explanation

settled with "its.. relaxing."

[nimble ingot]

It is a game that focuses on a player's experience.
It features gameplay that plays on emotions. (happiness, joy, love, excitement, sadness, fear, hatred, anxiety and even deep emotions).
As a player, you learn about the game at your own pace. You choose to make friends, you explore and you grow alongside your skykid. The skykid you play as is a imprint, or an avatar you can project yourself through.
The game would not tell you the whole story, but it does leave the pieces you can use to build up your own picture.

Simply put, it is an artistic game.

[keen shore]

I can’t remember if we still have visible (but gray) clothes when our flame goes out; I’m pretty sure we do but I can’t remember well. If we do, since the cape also has a fabric texture and we can still see our heart diamond glowing though the clothes, maybe either the clothes and cape are somehow connected, or fabric is just an easier texture/material to imitate on low amounts of light than hair or stone (maybe because hair has to blow in the wind and stone needs to look solid?)

(although, maybe this detail is just in the game so our skykids aren’t naked when we run out of flame, which is very reasonable)

[ember elbow]

thats a good way to put it. we got to about halfway through the hidden forest, and hes a new new moth, so im genuinely interested in what things hes gonna notice and bring up

[frigid tinsel]

yea, delit skids have clothes in the shape of the default moth outfit but it's all gray, no texture.

[nimble ingot]

Let them have fun and enjoy the game while they are innocent and naive.

Would you take care to guide them through the more dangerous sections at the later half of the game, please?

[keen shore]

Nah, getting krillbonked builds character /j

In all seriousness, seeing what things others notice and question on their first run that we might have passed over is a really neat idea, and now I am very curious

[ember elbow]

of course!! ;3; to be frank, he's usually the one carrying me through tough stuff in other games. But its fun following him around and reliving everything :)

[keen shore]

All I remember from my first run was wanting to hug every spirit/elder and getting sad when I couldn’t (also, taking many trips through hidden forest before I could find the tearful light miners spirit & enter the sunny forest)

[ember elbow]

i was terrified of making friends, got very confused and cried like a child at the end.

straight up i thought some random moth had just doomed me

[frigid tinsel]

a lot of people helped me out on my first run.
I somehow fell into the Sanctuary Islands and didn't know you could just go Home from the menu. another moth had fallen there too and found me, but she had more wings and managed to take us both out and back to the mainland Prairie.
I was terrified of Golden Wasteland. a capeless moth (prob a more experienced player doing a challenge) found me panicking and led me through the Wasteland, never even spotted by a krill. they're now a character in my fic cos in hindsight that was fascinating.

[keen shore]

I still avoid doing the flying race because my first run through, I got stuck behind one of the building pillars for like 10 minutes as I was trying to get the wl inside it, because the wind constantly blows you forward so hard that you can’t fly backwards to get unstuck (no idea if this is still a thing) and I was too stubborn to give up.

I first joined in the weeks before season of enchantment where it was between seasons and everyone was waiting for the next one, so I don’t have any “fell into seasonal area and became extremely confused” stories

[orchid jolt]

take a photo from the in game menu. position your character so that the photo pose looks like a hug. take a photo to see if you need to reposition yourself, and if not take two pictures very quickly.

[half shadow]

To be honest the first time I finished Eden I cried. I had a really great experience with an older vet player helping me and another moth, being very patient and emoting a lot to show encouragement, so the whole thing impacted me pretty heavily. Now whenever I’m running Eden if I come across moths who look like they’re struggling I always friend them and try to replicate that experience I had for other players. One time I lead an entire procession of four moths through and we got pretty far! If Sky has a “point” to it, I think that the point is curating experiences with other players like that.

[keen shore]

I also remember seeing the manta get bonked in the GW cutscene but I couldn’t tell if it would go after people too. So I hid behind a pillar and waited for someone else to go in front of me and get killed so I could see what happened, I remember thinking “oh. They can kill you”

[frigid tinsel]

I was too scared to go to Eden when I first climbed the Vault. a few days later, some Discord friends promised to take me then ditched me halfway up. I went Home. did Eden with a rando a couple weeks later

[nimble ingot]

oh yes, you can die in the game. Though fortunately it would goes in 3 ways.

1. You have to be determined to die outside of Eden (die on purpose)
2. Be very unfortunate. As in you got so many times and died as a result.
3. In way over your head. Similar to number 2, though you had less winged light to work with

[keen shore]

My first Eden experience is the part I remember the least, but I’m 90% sure no one else helped me. No idea what happened beyond that

[half shadow]

I think I ended up dying earlier than at least two of the moths during the four person run and I kept emoting the kiss and confetti in blue spirit mode to help them along without me. When we got to Orbit they all got hugs. Another time I was with two moths and somehow they got ahead of me and ascended first and I found them on the flight up to Orbit standing on one of the collapsed pillars at the very start just waiting for me before they continued and it made my damn heart hurt

honestly my scariest experience with death playing Sky wasnt with the krill or in Eden it was falling off of the boat in GW that leads to the Ark and not having any wings to fly out of the water so i started losing wings which wouldn’t let me jump to move faster and it felt exactly like i was drowning it was horrible

[nimble ingot]

I did Eden back in Season of Enchantment (when I joined the game).
I am a seasoned gamer so was determined to see to the end.
As a moth, I was shy, clumsy but intuitive and brave enough to face Eden.

It was chaos, my poor skykid was chimming so much, it almost sounded like they were screaming.
I felt bad for the players that went with me, though I did not make it past the first area where you had cover from the falling rocks.

Ever since then, I was determined to run Eden every week. And became stronger and more resilient as time went on.

[keen shore]

I’m too shy to actually light up and lead people but still want to help so sometimes I use my assembly torch as a proxy candle when I see flameless people, wait until they’re charged fully, and then disappear. I am beginning to realize this is how ghost stories get made

Judging by the notifications someone is struggling with the censor

[frigid tinsel]

i'm so confused, idk why my message is being censored

[nimble ingot]

yup. I do hope the censor bot gets some sleep.

[nimble ingot]

You can copy the message before sending it, to avoid losing the message like that.

If you like, can you dm me the message?

[frigid tinsel]

figured it out
that's so weird, it's a common community term

[keen shore]

Cat/boy is censored but damn is not

[nimble ingot]

lol yes. 🐱 👧 is censored

[keen shore]

Catoppression 💔

[frigid tinsel]

okay here it is:
for my third time doing Eden, I decided to try going alone for the first time. I had just gotten maskless and Juggler TS pants, rocking the classic veteran look. Two moths befriended me at the Eden doors. I guess looking like a vet made them trust me and as a result I felt like a fake vet and got nervous. we got krilled four times and hit by so many rocks, I felt so bad.
only one of those moths still plays and watching them grow and get more cosmetics gives me proud dad feels.

[orchid jolt]

dang, we be censoring Kyle's younger brother now?

[versed iron]

My sis takes me through eden

[keen shore]

Oh my god same I feel like whenever I try to help people, I get panicky and mess up and make them worse off than before. If I really want to help I’ll follow them from a distance and make sure they’re safe or lure krill away from them or something

Now that I’m thinking about it, I wonder how much ghost stories can be explained away with social anxiety

[frigid tinsel]

a couple times I led who I'm sure were actual kids through Eden successfully. they hugged me in Orbit, we walked through the door together, I shot confetti when we landed in Homespace. felt proud

i just remembered, with the two moths, one of them died and the other started crying beside them, i just

[keen shore]

Beginning to realize my habit of following people around and only reappearing to light them up when they need it might actually weird them out more than me trying to help and messing it up

[fallen birch]

Any idea for the new TS coming?

[frigid tinsel]

better to ask in #seasons-events-chat

[fallen birch]

Okie thx 🙏🏻

[upbeat wind]

If valley twins are raised by the hidden forest elder then why didn't they visit the forest elder..?

[frigid tinsel]

what makes you think they were raised or parented by anyone?

[nimble ingot]

There is little to now evidence suggesting the elders are family relatives (other than the twins).

While there are theories for the sky prince and the king being related, or being the same person.
Unless proven otherwise, the elders are likely not related to each other, aside from the twins.

[frigid tinsel]

it's also liable they didn't grow up into what they are. they were born/made they way we see them as now.

[upbeat wind]

Ah ok

I see people making theories that valley twins were raised by forest elder..

[nimble ingot]

It could be a fandom, which is a fun idea to explore.
Though going by what can be found in the game, there is no indication of that.

[upbeat wind]

Yea..

I might be new to the fandom cuz I just played this game like a year ago-

And I absolutely don't know the lore of the elders tbh

[frigid tinsel]

in concepts, Hidden Forest represents teenagehood with Forest Elder being the percieved-overbearing parent, strict and staunching the teenager from exploring themself. Valley of Triumph represents young adulthood, newly blessed with freedom and relishing in the grandiosity of it all. the fandom aptly portrays the Valley Elder(s) as these young adults goofing off and doing whatever they please.

in a way, that translates into the Valley Elder(s) being these goofy kids with Forest Elder appearing as the disapproving parent figure

[upbeat wind]

Ah ok

[grand spindle]

Hi guys i just want to ask. Is there a story movie or just a short one of sky? I mean i have so many questions that i want to know 🥰

[nimble ingot]

well.....
There is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBQRCHusYyU

[frigid tinsel]

the best we got to a cinematic portrayal of Sky is the Switch release trailer. like all things Sky, it's sorta vague in regards to lore but also rich in lore

[grand spindle]

I have to use switch to watch that? Or is in the yt?

[frigid tinsel]

Raider linked the youtube vid

[nimble ingot]

The link I just shared is the Nintendo Switch Promotional trailer on YouTube.

[grand spindle]

I just have so many questions that i cant sleep because im too curious about it I always observe the things in sky but anyway thank youuuu 🥰🥰

[boreal nebula]

The caption (I translated) over the picture directly recalled me of the rhombus/diamond that is wide spread in almost all Sky masks

Idk if it was intended as "sacred" but it surely is a sign with a meaning/lore

Normal spirit (like the basic masks) has it. If I recall correctly only a few don't show it, like the Lightseekers (the simple masks I recall)

And it's weird they don't, considering the roles as collector of souls in all the 6 realms (as seen in concept arts), who could be more suited than them to embody a sacred/consecrated roles

Anyway, I think this Egyptian Mark on the Forehead could be one of the many culture to get an inspiration, and it's nice to see it very similar into the (last year Lunar New Year cosmetics)

[distant turtle]

How many portals are in the game world not counting Office? There’s one from the 8 player puzzle area. There’s one at the end of Vault to go home. And there’s one in Orbit. Any more?

[nimble ingot]

oof let me think

[distant turtle]

If TGC is at a loss for seasonal entrances they can just add a switch to open a portal. There are so many gates that have the same frame.

[late wasp]

I want a Seasonal boat, by the Sanctuary. That takes us to another continent

[nimble ingot]

1 in dawn that takes you to the prophecy cave (not framed in stone, but is a portal none the less)
1 in day (sanctuary included) (thanks Paul)
none in forest (assembly and flight area included)
none in Valley (including dream village)
7 in wasteland (In the switch area)(abyss and forgotten ark included)
1 in vault (at the top floor that takes you home) (starry desert included)
1 in orbit (where you are reborn)
And naturally, there are 7 in Home.

So, in total, there are 10 portals (3 if you exclude Home)
There is 1 to the office, and 1 back to vault (though you asked to be excluded)

[boreal nebula]

Maybe I need to recheck, after the update (my picture were from the early days) but I'm pretty sure most of those I saw were upside..

It would be nice if the there was a clearer understanding of why they are made like this, (allegedly) then markes with such decorations and even WHAT is their name/purpose

[distant turtle]

There’s one in Day. After you ride the elevator up. It takes you to in front of the temple. Thanks!

[harsh plover]

What…. Is THAT!?

[nimble ingot]

ah, good point

[boreal nebula]

It's a drawing of some hornamental/sacred statue of Apis, deity fro Ancient Egypt. But it sort of gave me food for thoughts

Now that I notice, it the drawing of the same statue I showed in a picture I replied from

[harsh plover]

that thing looks weird… for real

[boreal nebula]

I get usually more asked where the Whale/Fish Call is located at.

You know.. cause it's incorporeal and with any blue glowing

[nova geyser]

Lmao my sleepiness at the time completely forgot about the candle 😂 I was thinking more like LEDs in that just because light is present doesn’t necessarily mean enough heat is generated to be picked up by a sensor

ALSO SPEAKING OF THE CANDLES that red flame means there’s a lot of contaminants in the fuel 😂 We should leave soot marks on the ceiling when we stand still with our candle out for long enough

As for the broken temple etc I wouldn’t be surprised if they got some of the prototype crystals from the King because of either their proximity to Eden or because they were being used as a military location, and when the crystals blew they took everything with them.

[boreal nebula]

I remember I wasn't spotted in my first GW run too.. I thought the Krill was a local animal ... And only figured out on the second run...!

Funny thing, I was more scared of Sanctuary... Becuase ended up Prairie, returned Home and explored it all. But even if I knew I could return Home, I was just unsure what could happend by falling this high, so I flapped from a floating island to another.

I couldn't complete (not even see the next step of) Bookworm and once I reached main island there, I was thought "Jellyfish? Suspicious... Better stay away from them." So I lost all the flaps before even finishing Shells Collector

So, once I figured Jelly were friendly I could have no clue about krills danger 🙃

Just recalled I first saw First Krill passing by during Soldier's spirit, completely missing the manta death scene
||Idk, maybe there was a bug, not all the times Krill worked properly||

[harsh plover]

Damn this lore chat is gonna give me some headache… i’ll be back brothers i need a drink

[uncut pond]

The only thing you have to know about Sky lore is that the kingdom's main currency was gender

All else is irrelevant

[rustic heron]

I don’t know if we should include the Switch area. Lorewise, is that even a real place?

There would be serious travel repercussions if warp pipe technology existed for the ancestors.

[late wasp]

Switch Area?

[rustic heron]

The one in GW, enterable by buying the switch capes. It emulates the 2D Mario games and has a warp zone with pipes leading to the realms.

[late wasp]

Mario is canon

[rustic heron]

Mario punched the Eden crystal and caused the disaster.

The King is actually Bowser. Vault Elder is Peach. Treasure Reef is just Dire Dire Docks.

The Krill? Goomba in a trench coat. The turtle skeletons? Just some Koopas that ate super mushrooms. Your wings? It’s just the flight cap.

Mario is canon.

[late wasp]

https://www.tomzhao.com/sky1

concept art timeline. very likely modified, so it's just an earlier idea

||although to that picture specifically, Cave of Prophecy kinda makes it look like it's still canon.||

[sharp lichen]

Speaking of which, where are my 40 genders

[frigid tinsel]

Here’s the full image, taken off Zhao’s website.

[keen shore]

Wahoo! [BOOM]

[boreal nebula]

Random

||Original video had blinking||
✨ 😉 for Cackling Cannoneer fans

[hushed steeple]

Hi

[pastel brook]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/593565781166391316/832872714967842826/Untitled90_20210416150354.png

[late wasp]

how do we end this bot?

[keen shore]

Okay, I made a joke about sparkler parent sneakily making gendered bathrooms in the series of rooms they break into, but what are those rooms actually for?? most of them are totally empty besides a small elevated platform against one wall between the stairs; the fireworks and sparklers are only stored at one tiny room at the top. They seem to have a repeating layout with the only doorways being very high up in the wall and only accessible via stairs, which in some areas look more makeshift than perfectly constructed (although even without that last fact the part about the doorways being up so high is still weird). They exit right out into the temple. There’s no other ancestors guarding the place but the sparkler parent still sneaks around like they’re being watched anyways???

[keen shore]

I hope these become a series of images where the skykid progressively gets into deeper and deeper waters, until they’re at the bottom of the abyss ocean

[hushed steeple]

What if skybot is right

[frigid tinsel]

They reminded me of catacombs, maybe used for performers during events to move around without the audience seeing. Though these catacombs open only in the temple, so

[keen shore]

I do sometimes wonder if the devs read this chat and are shocked at how much overanalyzing we do over trivial details

[frigid tinsel]

Thanks for the idea

[boreal nebula]

Dude! It's ao deep you fan swim in Treehouse and fell to the bottom of the map!

[keen shore]

That was my first guess but it doesn’t explain the weird and inconvenient door layout, plus considering it only opens in two areas instead of having a hidden entrance for each room makes it seem pretty useless for that purpose

[late wasp]

I think they originally planned to have Sky lore be a driving advertising force. (through GameTheory, etc channels)
It's in their Infos screen in game, the main goal of the game is "uncovering the mystery".
so I'd say no lol

[keen shore]

My second guess was that the rooms were originally flooded so that’s why the doorways are so high up… but why???

[frigid tinsel]

I wonder if there are more catacombs throughout the stadium and temple we don’t have access to (yet).

Worth noting that there are fireworks in that one room. Storage? Storing more than just fireworks? If so, what?

[hushed steeple]

Im starting to see the conceptual building blocks sky is made of everywhere. The order is different. Thats why its sky and not, say, journey, abzu, pathless, kena, omno, solar ash, aer, botw, Sable, Ryme, Last guardian, ect ect ect ect ect

[keen shore]

They’re completely empty, with not even containers being left behind. Maybe they were used for surplus food storage for the city and just got raided in the small window of time after the storm when society was beginning to collapse but not everyone was dead yet…

||secret theory: they’re an intentionally confusing mess of rooms made entirely to hide explosives from the valley elders and make them frustrating to get (for everyone’s safety)||

[late wasp]

||Sparkler Parent room reminds me that the new guy in the Vault is technically locked behind that 4 crystal telekinesis door with a bunch of graves||

[sharp lichen]

If Samekh got access to explosives, it would cause the apocalypse

[keen shore]

That’s what actually happened and why most of the rooms are empty (they stole all the fireworks)

[rustic heron]

Sky building blocks:

1. Child/newly reborn protagonist.
2. Mysterious and beautiful environment to explore
3. God killer
4. Astrally projected straight to deity
5. The real Journey was the friends we made along the way (thanks @frigid tinsel )
6. Do it again

[frigid tinsel]

Don’t forget the friends you make along the way

[late wasp]

you forgot the cash shop

[keen shore]

I feel like this is true or was at some point, but if it still is, can we please get more content focused on lore instead of Fancy Cosmetic 900

I appreciate that both recent seasons seem to be more lore based, although 2 seasons in a row is a disappointingly low streak to be happy over

[rustic heron]

I pretend I do not see.

[keen shore]

Wait, where’s the god killer aspect? Is it just an extension of the whole pollution/environmental damage idea?

[keen shore]

Considering the thoughtful director is also in that room and they interact, I get the feeling that the rocks we levitate to open it weren’t supposed to have fallen out

[frigid tinsel]

a) ancestors/Elders/king tried to usurp Megabird a la diamond in Eden
b) the more skykids born, the more Megabird weakens until They use all their stars to make skykids and dissipate.
c) beings of darkness could theoretically kill a god made of light.

[late wasp]

I think they secretly want us to start Youtube channels talking about lore.
and if we get enough views they might focus more on Lore in future updates.

this channel receives special treatment compared to any other channel or micro-community within Sky's 383k or so members (almost half a million)

we directly talk to devs often, and they feed our unhealthy obsession with the lore. unironically we just need to become content creators

[boreal nebula]

My best moment today

I had this idea about about mantas being used just a passively inducing their energy by close range (instead of grinding/juicing them) so I agreed with the term used by Sophos, "sustainable energy"

So I made a joke, that Sophos used for a meme
Then I slightly altered it

[rustic heron]

More metaphorical than not. There is some force that existed to destroy the connection to the world. Since most of these games focus on the environment acting as a force in an of itself, and that force is dying, I facetiously refer to it as God-killer.

[keen shore]

People keep mentioning making a skylore YouTube channel and I would totally be on board for it (as long as I don’t have to talk using my voice or show my face) but it never actually happens 😔

[keen shore]

Wow cool!! How much genders does each one cost??

[rustic heron]

If you have to ask…

[keen shore]

Going to annoy the devs by saying gender is the real currency until we get a lore confirmation what it actually was (secret plan)

[boreal nebula]

What is this gender/value/coin joke I dont get?

Are my csndles outdated? /j

[rustic heron]

Shhh! Don’t reveal the plan!

[late wasp]

Gender is the secret lore, I've so far collected three gendered characters. Little Prince, King, and that guy that says he was the most handsome man in the world (Lapis animal spirit)

[hushed steeple]

One of those seems pretty fan addition.

[keen shore]

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

From here it devolved from gender is a good into gender is money

[frigid tinsel]

Whole thread is a good read: #lore-discussion-spoilers message
Dammit Salem faster than me

[hushed steeple]

I don’t get most of yall youngins new hip speak

[rustic heron]

Lapis animal spirit

I mean, naturally, but it’s flattering nonetheless. (I’m half joking)

[late wasp]

canon

[keen shore]

Since the abyss crew is known as scavengers, does this mean they go from place to place stealing everyone else’s genders? (If so this happened to me)

[boreal nebula]

[rustic heron]

The diamonds are physically concentrated gender.

[keen shore]

People aren’t born agender, the cannoneer shows up in your closet and shoots you until you give them your gender /j

[late wasp]

I have to check the dev playthrough, because I'm hallucinating that one of the devs called cannoneer a "she"

[rustic heron]

Cannoneer’s gender is the sound for a gunshot.

[boreal nebula]

Weird I thought it could have been Cackling Cannoneer

[keen shore]

this is phrased like you’re collecting people with genders like Pokémon

[late wasp]

Yes. LOL

[frigid tinsel]

1. prob a slip-up
2. nonbinary / genderless people can use any pronouns and still be nonbinary

[keen shore]

I know the pronoun thing is true but the idea of gendercoin is way too funny for me to ignore

[rustic heron]

I wanna be, the very best, that no one ever was
To find them is my real test, to gender is my cause
I will travel across the world, searching far and wide.
For these genders, to understand, the power that’s inside

Ancestors! Gotta catch, it’s you and me
I know it’s my destiny
You’re called he and they’re called she
Ancestors
Gotta catch them, gotta catch genders

[frigid tinsel]

Cannoneer: I only take they- and she-coins

[late wasp]

Sophos spin off series LMAO

[keen shore]

This is why very few people come in lorechat. Imagine opening up a channel to see this post unexpectedly and with no context behind it

[rustic heron]

They can’t handle the raw power that emanates from even one member of lorechat. Just one of us could power the Discord server for weeks with sheer lore energy.

[keen shore]

Somewhere an 11 year old opened this channel, is reading what we’re typing, and is desperately trying to figure out what’s going on

[frigid tinsel]

The ancestors should’ve used lore to power their civilization

[keen shore]

Accidental consequence of theorizing too much is that sometimes you turn into darkstone :/

[boreal nebula]

This might explain why thehpy dont get some Lore memes

[keen shore]

Posts meme mourning the tragedy of the great high-five accident in the memes channel, refuses to elaborate, leaves

[frigid tinsel]

relevant Vela art: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[boreal nebula]

I dont see anything from u in Memes, where is this highfive?
Nevermind 😵‍💫

I saw vela's one in the link

[keen shore]

I’m too shy to actually do it

[boreal nebula]

Meanwhile I dont understand why no reactiom for the Winking Cannoneer meme/short I made in Memes

Meh.. good Night

[keen shore]

How did you get this picture of us????

Debate: which spirits/elders are most or least likely to participate in the gender economy

[frigid tinsel]

Forest Elder prob too busy mingling furries with the ancestor culture

[late wasp]

Vault Elder is wearing hijab iirc (some dev said it)
that is the least gender neutral piece of clothing used by all elders (ignoring beards)

[frigid tinsel]

anything can be gender neutral if you're brave enough

[rustic heron]

Question. Are hammers gender neutral?

[late wasp]

Hammer-gendered

Another episode of Gendermon Gotta Catch 'em All!

[keen shore]

After inventing genders, the belonging ancestor gave everyone else in the family genders as a form of nepotism, so this is unsurprising

[lofty void]

HAHCHAHSG HAHAHAH

SNJHSJAHAHHA LMAOOOAOAO HI LORE CHAT

[unreal gyro]

gm

[stable veldt]

i was celebrating cny, open lorechat and then i saw this

Eating 5 mandarins in 30 minutes was a mistake

[violet sundial]

Hello lore chat i need to. Talk abt vault cus its important for personal project and its weeeeiiirrrdddd

Is there any consensus on like. The. “Realness” of Vault and its upper floors? I think this would also come hand in hand with the Trials

Vault exists obviously as a tower but like i mean whats INSIDE it

[rustic heron]

So, there are several prevailing theories on the nature of the vault:

1. The vault, and the Elders, exist in a dreamscape/pocket dimension.
2. The Vault is a projection of Vault Elder’s degrading memory
3. Vault is a memory projector and recorder for anyone taking the elevator.

[late wasp]

It is "real", but the fault is basically just a library full of stored Crystals containing information.
The elevator towards Eden starts projecting some "holograms" (not really cause you can touch and interact with them), to teach the ascender a lesson of History.

[violet sundial]

Btw im listening i just don’t have nitro for the nodding emote 🥲

[rustic heron]

To support this, and trials, being real, you can collect wl from all of them, and these have a lasting physical effect on your skykid (added wing flaps of your wings), so there is something tangible in these spaces.

[violet sundial]

That makes sense then

[autumn lodge]

When we get to the last stage of vault (after meeting the elder, just before eden), the elevator we seem to ride up is shown to be broken/not usable, which makes be think it is not real and just a memory projection/hallucination

[violet sundial]

Cus i kinda wonder if like the trials are a sort of space of the mind as opposed to being purely physical

[rustic heron]

The counter to this is that we collect wl from the area, and these have a lasting physical effect on us. Same with trials.

[pastel brook]

Perseverance is strength, @rustic heron!

[violet sundial]

Couldn’t be said better skybot

[autumn lodge]

That’s true, maybe our sky kid can still collect things in dreamscapes?

[late wasp]

only Eden is real
there is a reason there is a Home portal next to the dilapidated ruins of the Vault.

[violet sundial]

Incredible 🤩

[rustic heron]

If you stay long enough, you’ll find skybot deserves this.

I am doing the trials. Hmmm, I thought trials was the trigger.

[violet sundial]

It is canon that the King is Hatsune Miku

[late wasp]

and grandma

[violet sundial]

Amazing and canon (let me. Find the miku thing)

[rustic heron]

WHAT. IS THIS TRUE.

[violet sundial]

Yes i singlehandedly changed sky lore as we know it forever 🌞

[rustic heron]

Someone please provide context. Please say sike.

[violet sundial]

More context

They had to postpone the Miku collab unfortunately 😔

[rustic heron]

I’m losing it. This has to be some kind of fever dream.

No way this is real. It has to be some sick nightmare.