lore-discussion-spoilers

[remote skiff]

https://www.thatskygame.com/news/days-of-sunlight-2025-let-s-go-to-the-beach-/

Each day, visit the Archives in the Vault of Knowledge to receive a special quest. Your task? To capture a moment of summer on camera and bring it back for the Spirits to store as a memory.

memory lantern data entry lore

[celest birch]

Not in canon, but in general it´s called "Kingdom of Sky".

[rain frost]

hi this isnt Serious Lore but

The concept of this year's Days of Sunlight is so funny to me bc like. at first glance im just like "wdym the vault spirits are too busy to come to the beach - theyre dead, shouldnt they get to touch grass?"

and then I remember that when they were alive they were archiving all those memories of their society so that their way of life could be passed on after the shattering so i suppose archiving smth precious like summer would be important to them

[reef fulcrum]

Uuhhhhh.... "Time Dilation"

[cobalt palm]

The moments camera does have a crystal diamond shaped into it, maybe taking photos with it stores those memories as light inside the diamond, just in a less destructive way than the light collectors as seen in the two embers

[spiral vault]

I wonder if this was meant to be a season at first

I guess things have changed from the earlier events

[pale plinth]

actually nevermind
thinking about it, it might be too graphic to talk about here so i will just. take that back

on a different note, does anyone know if the ancestors relied on light to live like skykids do? i know light is used to cure the darkstone disease that was spreading but can ancestors live without it on their own??

[narrow marsh]

Yes, geographically, the Eden mountain is surrounded by a mountain range, with the Valley of Triumph being in just a mere portion of that!
(The image below is concept art, not canon but rather commonly representative of the general expression of mountain ranges that I mention.)

[narrow marsh]

Dang… that truly is tragic… imagine that in your final years of life you may have never even gotten to see the sun again…

[gusty grail]

tysm that clears it up a lot

[spiral vault]

I think they couldn't live without it for a period of time, similar to how real life humans need food to eat.

[distant pebble]

Tte kinda proves they can't
Ik darkstone industry is somewhat light based but it withdraws light which makes things worse so it only logical they need it
And it kinda seems to why they are dead and stuff??
I it would be fun to think about creatures evolving in dark corners of the world like a fish in the Mariana Trench

Or what's it called in english

[wintry matrix]

Where did you read that Ark was filled with water? It doesnt make much sense when Wind paths lead there. One would complain they lead to Sanctuary islands too that are mostly water but the exit is placed high up there unlike Ark where it is pretty much ground level.

[wintry matrix]

You can see the same thing on ingame map if you zoom in and focus on the little doodles around the realms.

[narrow marsh]

Yep! I just prefer this one and that Netease concept map more as a visual showcase of what is the same idea on all three 🗺️

[unreal wren]

Hello lore chat ^^

[red lagoon]

since I recently came back to sky and out of everything that has transpired I just have to have this doubt cleared

since from the two embers story we now know that the sky civilization disappeared around 500 years ago, does that mean that the current sky children come to be exactly after that time period or even a bit earlier?
I'm genuinely confused about it

[scenic pebble]

they sure landed about that long after
did they come to be so long after the Shattering?
maybe, but it's just as possible as them being present above the Storm earlier

[narrow marsh]

Such an iconic question! Some people like to believe the Descendants immediately began falling the moment all the Ancestors died, or at least the moment the Ruler did. But it all depends on your personal interpretation on the matter.

I personally believe they only started appearing more recently, after 500 years. With the first of us being those to first ever play Sky when it first officially came out!
What about you? When would them appearing speak most interestingly to you? 🕯️

[red lagoon]

I'd say at least 100/200 years after the disaster
or 300

[red yoke]

Maybe skykids circled the storm like vultures, waiting for the ancestors to get calcified.

[red lagoon]

unless majority of the kingdom was like uninhabitable for 500 years and became able to sustain life after that time period

[narrow marsh]

Inhabitable or uninhabitable?

[gilded socket]

do not underestimate the resilience of life

[red lagoon]

uninhabitable* 💔💔
sometimes I forget that in english certain suffixes don't match with italian ones

[scenic pebble]

what life remained aside from the crebs?

[red lagoon]

krills?
probably creatures of darkness
or maybe there could have been creatures of the light at a much more minor scale

[gilded socket]

Hard to say as we do not have a good grasp of the condition directly post-shattering

But from real-life experience, there's a good chance a very small portion survived, or maybe even smaller and more primitive organisms.

As long as some form of life exists, I think they can bounce back.

[scenic pebble]

fair enough, though i'd rather say they are more so a new life form that came as a result of it all, not survived through all the apocalyptic events

[red lagoon]

so post-shattering it could have been only darkness creatures?

since they quite literally razed gw to the ground

[gilded socket]

With that said... a lot of organisms from pre-shattering surprisingly lived on to post-shattering.
You can see manatees as the most prime example, but through various scenes in seasons like Aurora, you can see the existence of other light creatures pre-shattering that definitely exist during our time like mantas.

Could be something to do with the light cycle and the Megabird.

[scenic pebble]

well, i agree that a lot of organisms survived the Shattering
but we see only one species that is explicitly land based
one begins to question, if the water and the skies are so populated, why is the land so empty
how many species that couldn't flee met their end

[gilded socket]

Were there even any "land" species? Every light creature outside of ancestors have the ability to take to the skies in some way, shape, or form. Mantas, manatees, butterflies, birds, whales, jellyfish, etc.

I don't think I've seen a fully land light species yet, and they weren't present in the glimpses to the past we've gotten either.

[lofty garden]

One thing I've noticed is that the butterflies are in most of every realm. Even in wasteland. Maybe some of the species were brought there or some one travels and have found them. For the krill, maybe they were dragons at one point and got corrupted. Another thing about the different species. Maybe they all came from different places and someone had discovered them? And when the explosion of dark energy/poison/things that cause sky kids to get hurt, maybe they went into hiding. We probably haven't seen those areas yet.

[gilded socket]

Also the presence of butterflies everywhere, as well as the ability to bide their time in dark plants until they are freed leads me to believe that these butterflies are the lifeforms that are most likely able to survive the shattering and make life grow once more.

I think a more popular belief is that the Dark Dragons (krills) are creatures native to the darkness. They are not corrupted, but a product of the Darkness' spread.

Krabs are definitely corrupted tho, as we have seen specimens that are freed from said corruption.

[tawdry gyro]

thats because of the whole thing in the 2 embers right?

i saw a theory that the krills are light creatures with the light taken out and because of the sort of crystalization that happens after that (like in the 2 embers) that uhhh smth smth they turn to krill

[red yoke]

Abyss Murals and the Underwater Facility

We're shown mantas being experimented on and weird creatures hatching from manta eggs.

Many interpret the weird creatures as baby krills as seen in days of nature.

The leviathan is theorized to be a corrupted elder manta or whale or eel.

Its all upto interpretation however.

[rapid latch]

Is there a lore reason why dye and light are still collectable after another player collected it?
And is there a lore reason why dye butterflies fly to another person also collecting the dye when someone tries to collect it and there’s another person

[red yoke]

Colored Light is one of the more obscure mechanics. We have no concrete proof for any of it, but there are many theories.

Its probably not just light with different wavelengths since what we refer to as light in sky is pretty much not the same as the light irl.

Light is biological

[wintry matrix]

Jenova tweeted it it was 500 years ago + Tio says it before movie screenings.

That means skids appeared 500 years after that.

[celest birch]

Speaking of Colored Light, I still love how it was referenced (together with the dye-mechanic) in 2 Embers; it´s the guards that have yellow uniforms. :D

[celest birch]

I´d say no, especially given how we see raining ambient Light at Crab Fields one time; I wouldn´t be surprised if soon post-Shattering, ambient light started to rain upon all realms except for ones inside the permanent darkness (GW, Vault) and it caused the surviving Light Creatures to emerge and begin to thrive again, kind of like surviving mammals after the asteroid eradicated all dinosaurs except ones that became birbs.

[celest birch]

I´d say "(the first) skid", given how the intro talks to us as if we´re alone. With others falling soon after.

[wintry matrix]

More of the eclipse sun from Wasteland, matching the one we see in PNR before ascending.

Im still linking the sun to be how we see Megabird from the planet surface. It being in eclipse meaning it almost lost all the power.

Theres no sun in Last city after all.

[celest birch]

Speaking of Skykids, I noticed that when we´re starting to get around wedge 10-12, then the wedge bar really resembles the Megabird when it´s extended while when extingushed, we get the 4-pointed star, akin to the King´s mask.

Kinda makes me think that we indeed have the light from Megabird/The Light while our shell/body is from the King.

[celest birch]

Ngl, I always thought that was a moon. Nonetheless, it´s still nice to see it even in such places as GW and Eden. Given that it looks like a waxing moon also kinda makes me think that it´s slowly gaining power as well. 🌒

[wintry matrix]

It changes to bright blue sky and sun though

It even has the lens flare sun has when looking at it in exlipse.

[celest birch]

Even better. Almost seems prophetic in a way, like this might be the future of such dark places as long as Skykids are active.

No need to mention the coincidence that I say "prophetic" because yes, Passage (!) Isle does have an eclipse as well.

[wintry matrix]

There also are no stars for it to be moon, everywhere else we see moon, the stars are also present.

[celest birch]

Got it and speaking of Last City, I actually think that the sun is still there (thus when the ♦️ goes out, it isn´t pitch-black, even when Darkness arrives), but the heavy clouds are obscuring it together with the shiny ♦️ , which can be interpreted as Ancestors losing their way with The Light and embracing darkness with the darkstone-technology, which is both sneaky and brilliant. 😏

12-wedge bar really looks like stylized Megabird when extended. 👀

[narrow marsh]

Within the conditions of a nuclear-style fallout, you all had a very lovely brainstorm over this!

However, we aren’t very sure at all if the explosion at Eden killed all life, or even at least most life. It’s just one of the many potential reasons we speculate for the extinction of Ancestors.
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

In terms of the inhabitability of the world, I personally believe that we have no reason to be certain that the entire world became inhospitable to new life growing, or that “everything” died; especially if the shockwave theory isn’t true.

I personally believe that there were Ancestors who survived post-shattering, actually, such as the Abyss crew and the town of Aviary.
The other possible option that explains the people of Aviary, which is a modern speculation people have rumored over recently, is that Spirits will actually soon begin to inhabit the world by the end of The Two Embers.

But of course, we can’t really be sure of anything 🕯️

[spiral vault]

If you look into it, the netease concept map seems to be a test for the map shrine map. With the same oddities such as Orbit on the top right.

That makes me think it has a much higher chance of being canon

[wintry matrix]

Noticed none of my posted photos show the lens flare so here it is (I had to record the sky changing to my friend because it wasnt showing for her for some reason).

ignore the music and gray candle, we went to explore lot of maps today

[wintry matrix]

Sorry to break it to yall but Eden always had the bottom part visible, it is not new thing added with Two Embers as some here said.

Noticed it while looking for something else and went digging.

Cutouts from and whole photos of mine from over past year or so. First one is screenshot from Days of Fortune 2025 trailer.

[narrow marsh]

Or not canon, in my take
I don’t like trusting the shrine map for geography purposes when anything drawn like a mural represents a Parable, not a Doctrine 🕯️

[hushed steeple]

Lol anyone willing to explain the lore to a new player?

Id love to hear the story

[red yoke]

If you havent played the game already, I recommend finishing Eden THEN diving into lore. Lots and lots of spoilers here

[hushed steeple]

Well I've played a little, but I didn't really know what I was doing

[narrow marsh]

So here’s the gist.
In the beginning, this special living substance called Light took the forms of living beings and traveled the world before returning to the Sky from the very top of Eden, where they would be reborn!

Humanoid beings of Light, who we call "the Ancestors", watched over this Light and shepherded the creatures of Light on their way to Eden.
But the Ruler of the Ancestors realized they could steal the power of the Light for themself, and so they captured creatures and stole their Light using the giant red diamond you see at the end of the Eye of Eden. ♦️
Some of the kingdom didn't like this, and they rebelled. There was an entire war between the rebels and the Ruler's kingdom, and in the end, the red diamond overfilled with Light and Shattered, sending dangerous debris across the kingdom, spreading Darkness everywhere.

500 years after all of the Ancestors had died out, a new type of Being formed from The Light in the Sky, called a Descendant, which you know as skykids! Our purpose is to save the trapped Souls of the Ancestor Spirits, so that their inner Light can be freed and rejoin that Light in the Sky.

Hope this helps! 🕯️

[wintry matrix]

So um. Everyone is dead. Except you and the elders.

I have this speculative Sky kingdom timeline if you wanna give it a read. However it is not updated for Two Embers (will be updated after TTE Part 2 comes out) #promote-your-sky-content message

[wintry matrix]

If you are planning to stick around (aka not pack your bags after Eden), I dont mind adopting another moth

[vernal rapids]

While rewatching the Two Embers trailers, I noticed a sad detail.
The shawl(?) gets passed from mother to child.

[wintry matrix]

And to the King too :)

They are the same person after all.

[vernal rapids]

Yeah, and this loss appears to be before the Passages and likely before the trials.

[ashen berry]

Wait fr

[wintry matrix]

Yes.

Jenova own words:

"It's a story about a boy and a girl, their names are Dawn Ember and Dusk Ember. The boy becomes King."

[vernal rapids]

Jenova also said they're both orphans.

The theme of Two Embers is about loss, grief, and compassion.
I think Part 2 will parallel with Part 1, possibly showing the mother's passing in the first chapter, with chapter 2 maybe focusing on the trials/passage.

[vernal rapids]

It's also theorized that the mother is the Ushering Stargazer and Dusk Ember is theorized to be the child who fell from the stars.

[wintry matrix]

*Dawn Ember

[wintry matrix]

And Im fairly positive those are indeed meant to be Stargazer and Voyager.

You can also see the stones dug pretty deep under Stargazer skin on bottom part. Same underskin growth we see on the little manatee.

Same side bangs and same color hairband.

[jovial nebula]

oh my god i was just about to come in here to ask if anyone had pictures of two embers stargazer and voyager

[vernal rapids]

Oh, my bad

[wintry matrix]

Just noticed both Alef and Stargazer also have matching tunic decoration, he is really mamas boy

[vernal rapids]

Lol

I wonder if we'll get to see the trials be animated...

[spiral vault]

That would be weird. I wonder if they'd gloss over it, or re-frame it, because it would be a bit strange to animate

[vernal rapids]

Or maybe montage it, who knows? It could even show him completing Trails, leaving us to actually run through them for a Seasonal Quest lol

[nimble ingot]

It is possible that the two embers story did not include the trails.
Either because the devs/animators/writers wanted to focus on these parts more.

It is interesting to note that the two embers does not showcase any other season.
Aside from references and obscure clues, it is also one of the few seasons to include the elders.
But also the only season to actually show the King in their ancestor form.

It is interesting how the elders in the Two Embers animations are not actually much larger than the usual ancestors.
I wonder if is either because the mural emphasise their power and status wit their size. Or if they are able to become larger if they have more power somehow?

The latter thought about power=size would be problematic though since we ran into these elders and presumably all of them were low or have no power left.
We give them power and they don't necessarily grow in size.

I would however need to check if all the elders are in fact larger in Orbit compared to their usual cut scenes.
Because I know the vault elder is seen in 3 different cutscenes with different heights.
The smallest is when we meet them for the first time, then the all elder cut scene that follows and they are taller (roughly the height of typical ancestor in the first, and larger but the same size as the valley twins in the second). Then the largest size is in orbit where they are taller than the wasteland elder even.

[winged violet]

Aren't the elders also dead, which is why we only see them at the temple and in the end of Eden? Or are they eternal spirit beings?

[winged violet]

So… We are thinking that baby man tea was reborn as this sky child?

[vernal rapids]

I think Part 1 takes place after part 2.

[sharp shore]

i think in their culture, irrespective of how accurate it is irl, powerful people are drawn as larger

case in point, i remember this random detail drawing in the prophecy murals where the forest elder was accepting the elemental power after the trials and there were like a few subjects behind her and she looked like she was towering over them

compared to that, shes short as hell in game

[vernal rapids]

I kinda wonder if the spirits of the Elders can be any size they desire. Maybe akin to how we Skykids can change our size. Idk

[sour sphinx]

Would we see the people from the Last City be the first ones to not be spirits whenever we visit them? I know all of the Seasonal spirits appear as spirits. Including regular spirits

[sharp shore]

Thatd be kinda funny

Teth losing an argument against Tsadi and she magically makes herself taller than him to prove a point

[vernal rapids]

I think we kinda visited a snapshot of the past because of the lantern.

[vernal rapids]

That would be funny.

[languid gull]

Hi sorry if you don’t mind me asking where exactly did he say that so… they’re both conformed a boy and a girl?

[sharp shore]

eh thats where it gets kind of vague

you can consider them as boy or girl or just genderless, it doesnt really matter

[distant pebble]

Some Chinese or Jp interview I don't remember well

[languid gull]

Oh ok cause I was rewatched the interview from last yrs sky festival on japan but he didn’t say that specifically

[narrow marsh]

It was very specifically CN, Jenova Chen speaks Chinese. But hey who knows, maybe he speaks Japanese who’s to say?

[wintry matrix]

Please do not cold ping.

That was 5 am ping.

I did quoted Jenova Chen as stated in my message you replied to.

You cold pinged 9 pm message at 5 am the following day.

[wintry matrix]

Baby… man… tea?

[narrow marsh]

🧊 ❗ 👶 🧍 🍵

[sharp shore]

ice ice baby (???)

matcha

[wintry matrix]

Painting higher class people bigger was common practice in ancient Egypt, yes. The more important figure you were, the bigger spot you had on murals.

Also ||she is still the taller sister but the heels also do a lot||

[sharp shore]

lmao whenever i go to the all elders oob i just look at teth and go 🤏 🤣 🫵

its okay even in heels i am vertically disadvantaged myself

[wintry matrix]

She is compensating it with the hammer

[sharp shore]

real

me when i walk into home depot in heels dragging a hammer thats like 3/4 of my size

[wintry matrix]

But thats a light (pun intended) hammer, you wouldnt understand

[nimble ingot]

The elders are in fact fallen. aka dead.

The game says this as you play through Dawn.

If need be, I can look for the screenshot that shows this.
Just let me know and I'll happily find it.

[grave laurel]

Oop apologies if I’ve also done that before, I usually have wildly different time zones from people

[nimble ingot]

Regarding this qoute, there is no known source that states the Two Embers were a boy and a girl.

The last sentence however can be found here:
https://gamesbeat.com/how-sky-the-children-of-the-light-broke-records-for-most-simultaneous-people-on-the-screen-jenova-chen-interview/

GamesBeat: A different level of compression throughout the whole field of view?
Jenova Chen: [omitting part of the answer to highlight this last part]

"It tells the story of two children, and the drama about the two of them trying to help people. One of them seeks power to change the world, but in the process he’s corrupted and destroyed. The other one tries to save the world by convincing the former world to give up its power. The boy becomes a king."

TGC has established that their characters in Sky have no gender. As in they usually do not assign genders to all of their characters. Some may have recognisable features that implies them as being feminine or masculine. Namely a beard or masculine body build. Or longer hair or feminine body build. Or even in their names like Grandma for the Season of Belonging guide.
Most other times, TGC would use gender neutral titles like "Parent" or "Ruler"

Yes, even the King gets called Ruler at times.

So even if the idea that the embers are a boy and a girl. The lore is open to interpretation and people who would like to explore the idea of these characters being this, that, or the other are valid to do so.
They are not presenting them as canon or fact, just fan theories and head canons.

[grave laurel]

Anyways I saw a message about elders changing size and yeah I’ve always wondered why in the shattering memory they’re really big but we’ve never seen them that size before
And all the other memories are to size

[nimble ingot]

Following this up.

I see in the lore chat there is this qoute as well:
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

So the qoute in full with "Jenova own words" is first posted by Tristan.

[wintry matrix]

Everything is big in shattering memories, even krill.

[wintry matrix]

Do some proper research before you start with “umm actually” please.

Tristan speaks chinese.

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[grave laurel]

oh rly? they seem normal size to me, but then again i’m not exactly jumping to get close to them

[wintry matrix]

Nope they are definitely bigger, almost twice the size, we flied up to them and checked.

[nimble ingot]

1. Thank you for giving sources. Why not let @languid gull know when they asked?
2. Thank you for giving more info
3. Context does a lot for Sky. Namely with localisation the game shifts the meaning or adds more info.

Sky is known to change with time and Jenova is known to contradict himself at times (see the hat controversy with the Dreams season).

[wintry matrix]

Im nor aware of it dw, plus you can turn off the ping before sending reply.

[nimble ingot]

Almost forgot. Netease is known to change parts of Sky for their audience and there has been several lore and in game instances that differs from the international version of Sky.

This sadly makes the lore either divided or inconclusive for us.

[wintry matrix]

None of the text proofs it is elders talking or it is about them.

In fact we can see quite the opposite in game, like elders not having spirit body and rather a solid one just like us. They are even tangible in some out of bounds, something no spirit has.

[grave laurel]

i’m really sorry, i don’t mean to be rude. But why do you reprimand other people for pinging you when you also leave ping on?

[wintry matrix]

You dont want to be pinged? Sorry, I can turn it off. I dont mind pings when they are related to ongoing conversation but when it is ping several hours after the message, it is quite annoying, especially when it is in the middle of the night (I sleep with phone next to me in case of friend needing quick support).

[grave laurel]

i personally don’t mind ping, but also yeah i get when it’s several hours later.
I think there’s the option to mute specific channels for a certain duration? that will help you not be woken up by random messages but still be able to help friends

oh i just remembered something! the crystal and the elders are still not proportional in the memory, now that we have that resh scene of them infront of the crystal to compare, the elders are still quite big in the memory

[nimble ingot]

https://youtu.be/p5TWM5ghfJs?t=420

I sadly could not find my own screenshot of this.
However here is a clip by a user on YouTube.

We never see the elders in the present interacting with skykids in the realms. We only see them when we interact with their shrines or in Orbit.
Both of which are holy sites. And assumingly not a physical plane but spiritual.

We even see them get blown away by the Eden Crystal shattering.
There is a reason why we see them interact with the ancestors in the time they were alive, and absent when skykids arrive to meet the ancestors as ghosts many years later.

[grave laurel]

i always thought the elders to be in some sort of purgatory.. they’re not the same species as the ancestors, so they wouldn’t also be the same spirits. But they definitely aren’t alive like skykids are

[red yoke]

I thought the Elders were stuck in some sort of half-life within the Void where they can't ascend or interact with the real world? They only appear in Orbit once you complete their constellation. Maybe that somehow links you to them?

They're not dead. But not alive either.

[wintry matrix]

The place we meet them are not their shrines but somewhere between time and space as said in one japanese livestream. So in big “” we meet them both in present time and past.

Lets talk about this few days from now. The final quest may bring new lore.

[grave laurel]

I’m so excited for that final quest… I have no idea what’s coming

Well, except for the shattering

[wintry matrix]

Im curious about the manatee quest, what that one will be about? Bringing it to present time somehow? Im willing to do full Eden run just to bring it back from Orbit and ideally with Stews potato too.

[nimble ingot]

Sure.
I did say we only see them when we interact with their shrines.
Not sure what you mean by dont. "The place we meet them are not their shrines..."
Regardless of what time and interdimensional space we meet them in, what do you mean by they dont have shrines??

[wintry matrix]

The shrines serve as “communication device” sort of. There is no shrine in Last city temple, someone had to place those shrines there later, maybe Megabird did?

Here is the source for the meeting in the void:

It makes no sense for shrine to be placed directly under darkstone press.

[nimble ingot]

That does not answer the question, but ok 👍

[wintry matrix]

It does, what are you asking then? The shrines are in temples and we dont meet them in temples.

[nimble ingot]

You and I are talking past each other. Let me break it down.

They have shrines.
We interact with them.
We meet the elders in a space that is like the void or some type of "holy site" as I stated.

You say we dont meet them at the shrines. Which is true but where has that been questioned??
And I ask if you mean that they dont have shrines or what do you mean by that?

You follow up with saying shrines are "communication device[s]" which is also not something that is being questioned.
And then mention that there are no shrines in Eden. Again, where was that even brought up?

My question to you was about the shrines we interact with and that was that.
Going in other directions sadly did not help answer the question.

[wintry matrix]

Can you point me out where I said they dont have shrines? And where I said something about shrines in Eden?

It looks to me like you are making stuff out of thin air just to stir some drama again.

[nimble ingot]

Nope and nope.

My question was 'what do you mean' and it was that simple.

Now you are jumping to accusations and that is where I will not entertain that.

I love the lore and I love this channel.
Escalating a simple interaction is not the way this channel operates and that is the end of that.

Feel free to accuse and complain. I am not going to entertain that any further though.

[wintry matrix]

You are saying I said they dont have shrines and asking me what I meant by that. But I never said anything like that. Can you point out where you got that information of the elders not having shrines? im failing to find it.

[scenic pebble]

guys, i need your help
how do i call this symbol?

[wintry matrix]

Tom says it is forest darkstone brand symbol, would make sense as it appears on multiple places outside forest, even in Last city.

[scenic pebble]

it's mostly found near darkstone switches, notably those that require the player to light them, except for the larger ones which seem to have no symbols on them at all, but they don't seem to have been used often so maybe it only appears in places that would often need to change out the switch because of it being worn down from use
there's also the filled symbol which i think is only found on the top of the darkstone charging facilities
but i asked for a name and calling it the darkstone brand.... i dunno, maybe i'll use this one anyways

[wintry matrix]

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

It is on boat in Eden too.

[red yoke]

Teth Darkstones. Assured Quality.
Get yours today down at Hidden Forest.

[nimble ingot]

It is interesting to see the diamond motif evolve and become more complex in the realms.
Valley gets additional details the surround the diamond. Vault even has several diamonds that combine with the main one.

[wintry matrix]

Grab your (f)Resh potatoes on the way there

[red yoke]

Why skybot? Why cant i react with ? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[nimble ingot]

to who?
On Discord, when one is unable to react to someone's messages, that usually indicates that person has blocked or ignored you.
It is a feature designed to limit users from interacting with each other.

[red yoke]

Luca.

[scenic pebble]

maybe the Eden boat was meant to carry uncharged darkstone
it sure is found mostly in Forest but there's also the broken temple in Wasteland
maybe those symbols actually meant something in Forest but those that didn't know the meaning behind them just assumed it was a "from Forest" symbol
as to the marketplace... i have no clue what do they mean there since there is no darkstone products sold on the market, maybe before the Last City got flooded by the refugees it was a stockpile of something or something else
i dunno, these ideas just came to me yesterday so they aren't that well defined yet

[wintry matrix]

Forest used to be first quarry of darkstone as we seen in both Mindful Miner memories and concept art so it carrying darkstones is very possible.

Why is it on gates to marketplace though? Noone (lol) knows.

Tearful Miner memory also shows them mining something, possibly darkstone as well, especially when we see one of the miners being covered by darkness and dying (if that memory was made today and not in 2018/2019 then instead of plant there would be the “darkstone eczema”)

[nimble ingot]

Season of moments geologist spirit: "Am I joke to you?"
They may not have been a miner themselves, but the area can be a candidate to mining.
If not the Prairie Peaks, then possibly other locations in the Day realm.

Just because we have one instance of a miner in certain realms, it may not guarantee that there might not have been others in other realms.
Even if not the first instance, tearful light miner is shown to be one of many instances of mining.
The underground caverns beneath the Elevated clearing shows evidence of mining, and even the Aurora songs shows more evidence of such activity in the past. Whether that may predate or even co-exist with the mining operation of Light Miner is uncertain.

TLDR
It is correct that Tearful Light Miner is a good example of mining in Sky.
But not the first, or even the last, unless there is explicit evidence that shows this (if at all)

[wintry matrix]

We dont have any proofs of other quarries existing or not existing outside hidden forest and treasure reef.

I never said that Tearful Miner was 100% mining darkstone, if you re-read my message, it says possibly darkstone.

Geologist doesnt show any signs of being miner, rather being someone who is interested in various gems and minerals.

Before reacting to messages you should seriously read stuff carefully, this is not first time of you trying to have a point over something you misread completely.

[wintry matrix]

Sorry, you were spamming some complete nonsensical “memes” here about a week ago that highkey annoyed me, all good now.

[nimble ingot]

Tearful Miner memory also shows them mining something, possibly darkstone as well,
They are mining darkstone.
How do we know this?
They are seen digging through rock (aka mining) and this is often associated with extracting darkstone

Geologist doesnt show any signs of being miner,
Fair point and upon looking it up. A geologist studies minerals, they do not extract them.
This may not be the case for other ancestors who intend to collect the mineral for darkstone production like the ones in the Hidden Forest for example.

Tearful Light Miner's name is a strong indicator for mining darkstone because they are mining a mineral that produces light, which is what the lore chat has dubbed as Darkstone.

I am human and hence am prone to making mistakes.
This channel is a public forum for people to engage and craft theories.
Having disagreements can and will happen from to time between users and that is fine as long as people handle them appropriately.

[rotund spindle]

Hey everyone, just a quick reminder to keep the discussions enjoyable for all. Name-calling or personal attacks are not okay because they target the person instead of the idea, and that can make people feel unsafe or unwelcome.

If you feel yourself getting worked up, the best thing to do is take a step back and leave the chat until you feel calmer. Remember, this is a space for everyone to discuss, and tone can be hard to interpret in text, so try to assume good intentions unless proven otherwise. In such cases, you’re welcome to drop a message in #contact-the-mods or give us a ping. If something seems unclear or off, it’s always better to politely ask for clarification than to jump to conclusions too quickly

[wintry matrix]

Clarification was asked, question was ignored, what now?

[rotund spindle]

You can agree to disagree, take a step back, and revisit the conversation another time

[wintry matrix]

Eh? Revisit what? Someone saying I said something, said person arguing about that and then silence when asked where it was said? What am I supposed to revisit on that?

I dont think I am the one who should be revisiting the conversation here.

[rotund spindle]

By revisit, I meant it might help to take a break from the argument for now so everyone can approach it more calmly later. Right now, it seems like continuing to push won’t get the clarity you want, and stepping away can prevent things from getting more tense.

It applies for everyone, it’s just a reply to you because you asked

[wintry matrix]

Can I DM?

[rotund spindle]

Sure but I won’t be able to reply fast as I gtg. As an option, you can drop message to #contact-the-mods so any available mods can take on your inquiry ASAP

[nimble ingot]

On a whim I got curious and looked up how many messages were post on this channel in a day.
Based on results for 1 August:
2025 - 487
2024 - 61
2023 - 101
2022 - 421
2021 - 369
2020 - 2744

That is weirdly interesting and funny at the same time.

Either way, back to our regularly scheduled silence

[wintry matrix]

!wafo and wrong chat to ask.

[pastel brook]

Members here don't know when things will happen unless its been announced in #news. Best to Wait And Find Out (wafo) in the meantime. Hmm, kind of sounds like waffle when we say it together 🧇

[balmy coral]

Thought it might be spoilers

[wintry matrix]

Anything that is not in live game belongs in #beta-discussion now please delete your message as it mentions beta content.

[sour sphinx]

Learned that the hard and polite way 😄

[tall rose]

Could anyone summarise the two embers part 1 story for me? I watch all 4 parts but I still didn’t really get the full plot…

(Also maybe cause I missed the first half of the 4th screening)

[wintry matrix]

I have long chapter 4 analysis if you want.

[tall rose]

Yes please!

[wintry matrix]

here ya go #promote-your-sky-content message

[dawn lintel]

Anyone else notice the scratches on this pot in Ayins temple? (And yes, my Alt is unfortunately a moth)

Any explanations? I'm curious I guess

[hushed steeple]

Yesterdays quest with flight guide remembering her master was kinda more special. Hope I haven't missed more sweet quest like that in the days I skipped.

[hushed steeple]

Maybe pots imported from GW or something. Nothing has claws though. Maybe scratched with a horn or tusks? Still looks pretty claw-like.

[dawn lintel]

Could have grazed some other pots pretty bad in shipping, seems pretty unlikely though.

Would help if there was evidence as to where the pots come from

ISLE????
If they were on the boats though the shipping damage does seem pretty unlikely as they're pretty stable

unless someone crashed and then picked them back up to hide it

[wintry matrix]

There was one when she was reading a book, it was super cute.

And then another where you can fly her to the temple.

[wintry matrix]

It could honestly be markings from ropes that held them on place during transport. It really depends on the kind of stone/clay they are made of and how old they are.

[dawn lintel]

Yeah good point.

[hushed steeple]

Did those. I like how the missions kinda progress. You take her there so she can remember her teacher 🥺

Wish they repeated unique quest more often though :/ have they repeated at all?

[sharp shore]

i think they did repeat every once in a while, the dailies today at least didnt have that type of quest though

but that flight guide guest was adorable she needed to commute for work lmao

[balmy coral]

Great comment!

[sour sphinx]

Thx 😊😁 The first time I didn't know, and (probably) the couple other times I forgot. So if I have anything beta related I can always go to the beta section

[wintry matrix]

Hm.

[sharp shore]

whats the first image

[wintry matrix]

The very first manta Alef sees from the boat.

The only one from whole flock with carbon shield growing on its face.

[sour sphinx]

I find that majestic when the Mantas show up around Alef

[sharp shore]

oh my

i initially thought the crown mask was designed to look like a star because he was a fallen celestial being but hm

[wintry matrix]

it is so hypocritic for him to love mantas so much his mask eventually mutates/gets changed to look simmilar to them too and then he greenlights their mass extinction.

[sharp shore]

exactly

I mean it probably reflected how much he loved the light creatures in the beginning, but hubris made him blind against industrialization

[wintry matrix]

Another take might be that eventually had no other choice. It was either death of his people or death of mantas.

[sharp shore]

yeah thats what i think

dude was not happy that that was the last resort, but what else could they reasonably do

[wintry matrix]

Well I guess I have to start yet another document, thats already 4 of them in the works, oh well.

[spiral vault]

I think the daily quests should be integrated permanently, like add it onto the quest tree of the flight guide.

[wintry matrix]

Maybe TGC is testing something with all those new dailies Im running once we get Stew dailies for sure.

[rustic flax]

Does anyone have an updated doc with all the previous lore and two embers lore or smthn?

[wintry matrix]

I have speculative timeline (not updated for Two Embers, will be updated after Part 2 comes out) and Chapter 4 detailed analysis.

[sharp shore]

speaking of this though, has anyone talked about the parallels between Resh and Satan or

I've been doing some reading on an excerpt of Paradise lost in college right now and even though im not Christian, I do see at least a few similarities

I did read tidbits of the bible as well, but not really on Satan

i think there was a discussion on the biblical similarities to resh earlier in the chat

[wintry matrix]

I only compared him to Asriel.

[sharp shore]

UNDERTALE may i see a link to your discussion i would love to read your thoughts

[wintry matrix]

Ah, i only said that Alef/Resh and Asriel/Flowey share some simmilarities and that was pretty much it. I can do deeper dive in documents later if you want.

[sharp shore]

ah okay lmao

only if you want to i can see how hes similar to asriel from undertale too, but theres something about him that reminds me of satan

then again im not christian and so i am not as well versed, but i think i can bring some parallels here if i have the time

i could go even further and compare them all to the seven deadly sins, though im not sure if thats also been talked about already

id have to dig back to what stuff ive read in dantes inferno from the last semester

[wintry matrix]

I know more about Undertale than I know about Satan lol.

[sharp shore]

lol the alternating caps lock 😭

also real i know more on undertale than the bible as well

[wintry matrix]

Sorry, I hit caps by accident while typing.

[nimble ingot]

Undertale is a safer bet than religion, especially Christianity in my experience on this channel in any case.

[wintry matrix]

Daily reminder to hug our traumatized friends.

[sharp shore]

did that lead to controversy on this server before?

if so ill reserve my thoughts in a blog where people could choose to look at it, though i plan to make my blog mainly medical/physiology related

[pastel brook]

...

[sharp shore]

Leave me alone skyclanka 💔

[wintry matrix]

Something I caught by accident while trying to take refference photos for different thing - The sewing box of dreams guide has dreams logo on it. I think it was newly added because I dont remember it being there when I did photos in cape shop last time.

[sharp shore]

that spirit is part of dreams iirc

WAIT Oh right shes the guide yes

I think all the guides that set up shop there have something that showed their respective season

[wintry matrix]

Nevermind, you can barely see it but it is there. Weird I never noticed it before huh.

[pastel brook]

But what about the writing on the walls?

[sharp shore]

alright bro 💔

[native oasis]

Five hundred years ago (Two Embers) nobody had wings like the Skykids. Even the children in the show and Hopeful Steward included aswell. Birds meant freedom, so back then, while the darkness was around. These People were never free and kept dying (The crystal skins.)

[sour sphinx]

And after we were born the Mega Bird gave us the ability to fly

[spiral vault]

I think the same thing happened to Hopeful Steward, maybe, in a way

[wintry matrix]

Stew got the cape from Enchantment guide

[pastel brook]

But what about the writing on the walls?

[narrow marsh]

Naturally, but the profound Themes in The Divine Comedy do not have to be restricted to only Christian/religious interpretation. It’s a very powerful story even and dare I say especially as a stand-alone piece.

[gilded socket]

Tbh it's still unbelievable that what is basically a fanfiction ended up shaping a huge portion of people's perspectives

But back on topic, could you elaborate more on Resh being compared to Satan and Asriel? Hearing that in the morning is wild lol

[narrow marsh]

This is so fun, because I’m not seeing the correlation between Resh and Asriel, but I do see the idea behind Satan of TDC being Asriel! Very cool

[sharp shore]

who me?

sorry im in the middle of hw ill get on it soon

or like maybe in a day i dunno 😭 ✌️(i hate college)

I PROMISE ILL DELIVER

[gilded socket]

While I wait for those explanations I also want to put out a floating question. Do you think there's any significance with the Flight Guide daily quests?

[wintry matrix]

Maybe at morning if I dont forget, it is half to three at morning here. The only reason Im awake at this unholy hour is that my back is being really annoying now.

[wintry matrix]

Flight guide was student of Prairie elder.

[gilded socket]

Ooo

[narrow marsh]

Maybe these are things the guide did in some direct correlation to the Elder

[sharp shore]

alright im done with my homework for today

I came back after reading some parts of the bible, and I just saw some verses on Satan that remind me of Resh

(I'm Hindu, though I read other religious texts from time to time along with ones of my own faith)

TW: RELIGION

||Luke 10:18 "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." (Alef fell from the heavens/megabird cast him down)||

Book of Ephesians Chapter 6 also has these verses (10,11,12)

||"(10) Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. (11) Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. (12) For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."||

(This could be related to the fact that people who began to detest Resh's rule saw him as going against God/Megabird in the way that he disrespects the light cycle and instead traps it within darkstone, thus perpetuating darkness)

In esscence, even if I personally believe it was completely unintentional, resh's promotion of darkstone across the realms can probably be seen as temptation going against Megabird and the light cycle

which is quite odd, because based on the prophecy, he was messiah-like almost

pretty sure there was already a discussion on eye of eden/garden of eden but I also believe that could be parallels to how he was being tempted by darkstone too sinful actions driving further away from Megabird

sorry for the insane text wall

[gilded socket]

I see the relation but putting it like that, why is it lowkey reminding me of Anakin Skywalker now

[sharp shore]

Yes lots of vader comparisons were made up in the chat

[brittle smelt]

Moments guide has photos of peaks, flight guide has a photo aswell, so does dreams guide with Skater, passage guide has the masks, idk about radiance performance(harmony hall) or rythm

[sharp shore]

Speaking of which i wonder what apprentices to the elders really did

[river veldt]

(Patch notes)
THE PROJECTOR DOES WHAT!?

[river veldt]

Nesting guide probs learned their carpentry skills from forest elder (teth)
Flight guide probs learned all about light creatures from prairie elder (ayin)

[sharp shore]

NO WAYYYYYY

[hushed steeple]

Im sure theres art of apprentices as new elders. But we only got two of a set. Hooo.

I don't think thats how it works. But fun idea right?

[winged violet]

I wasn't sure I was completely understanding forest mother, knowing kind of what's going on and also almost complicit to the rise of The... I don't know what to call him, the dark Lord? When all Hades started breaking loose and he descended. She was there, but she looked so Sad about the whole thing so it's like she knew but couldn't fight against it. Who knows -maybe this was her son? Her husband? Another thing that struck me was how many women there were in vault, taking care of the dead, but there's not a single woman acolyte in the hall.
I had suggested at one point to TGC to enhance upper level players in the game to be able to be interns or acolytes of elders of our choice and learn extra curriculum from them. But I don't get why when they make something harder they make it harder for every player -like why can't we level up so that way the moths would actually stay around because the game doesn't keep getting too hard. We should be leveling up accordingly. Anyway, that's my rant. 😉

[pastel brook]

A "moth" is a new player. They have brown wings, they flap around uncontrollably, and they are drawn to flame!

[sharp shore]

Im so sorry but run that by me again?

[hushed steeple]

Like, imagining Flight and Nesting evolve into like, replacement Elders. Get big and fit the realms thematically.

Not lore I believe happens. Just fun idea conceptually.

[sharp shore]

Ohh i see

Yeah im of the idea that the elders are locked in and are #elders4life but that is a nice idea

[winged violet]

Ancient Roman, ancient Greek... the g*ds, the Titans... it goes back as far as time itself and humans first no longer had to work on survival every single day. As soon as people start settling making a community, then find some other settlement that has something they want… Oldest story of history.

I can't tell if that's a fist or a thumbs down emote

Ohhh big eyes 👀 Sky style... cute!

[sharp shore]

Yeah lol

[final crown]

I thought sky was all about light people removing darkness from spirit world then d*eing

I'm questioning my life after reading this channel

DA LOREEE-

[rustic flax]

Ohh okay no worries! good luck

[scenic pebble]

isn't there a picture in the cinema that parodies the New Hope poster while replacing Vader with Resh?

[gilded socket]

👁️ 👁️

[wintry matrix]

there are couple of simmilarities with star wars too yes

[potent dawn]

The lore is lore’ing

[narrow marsh]

Good morning everyone! Let’s see what’s on the docket today. 📖
Hm, yes, I see

Somethingsomething Darkness plague; somethingsomething Light deficiency-

Somethingsomething Light as metaphysical substance, sonethingsomething Darkness representing all worldly substance…

Somethingsomething Shared Spaces as
Mental Spaces; somethingsomething greater Connection to “the platform” in the Void

Lots to do, folks, lots to do 🕯️

[distant pebble]

Also Undertale and divine comedy are here ig

[dawn lintel]

So I was staring at Teth's door

Isn't that mask from her concept art? If so why is a concept symbol (?) only on her door.

Also are the figures that hold the darkstones (on the boat on the wall) supposed to be spirits or something else?

[nimble ingot]

The mask about the door in the forest temple is an easter egg to the elder's old design. ❤️

here is one with the mask

[dawn lintel]

That's really interesting actually! Thanks
Old designs are pretty honestly

[narrow marsh]

I think it’s important to understand that every culture touches on some crucial aspect of the human condition, in particular in a way that their peers or predecessors may not have acknowledged in the same way.

Just like our work in here as researchers; nobody has all of the answers. It takes All of us. Together. Connected. To understand why we feel the way we do. Why we want to explain why we’re here. ❤️ 🕯️

[main ledge]

So I found an article (which explains why the two embers has to be in game) but also does confirm that we see part one as one of the lowest members in a caste system. I’ll see if I can send it in a second message in case it gets beaned.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/we-got-rejected-by-everybody-thatgamecompany-on-the-difficulties-and-opportunities-of-transmedia

[finite prairie]

Concept art The two Embers ✨

https://fxtwitter.com/thatsky_syuan/status/1960676306120794618?s=46&t=OovrYhshMzWut6TH2R_lDA

[main ledge]

Do you think it’s harder for places in the “shadow” of Eden to recover? Like the first three areas of the map are rather recovered and alive, VOT is frozen over and rather devoid of life with only birds as what we see of life there but it’s also very manufactured/built up, but GW has enough exposed sands and doesn’t appear to be windy besides down in the tornado that throws us down below the landing pad, so some grasses should’ve begun to appear by now there after 500 years. Or is the dark waters just so tainted that it’s salted and razed the earth there?

[wintry matrix]

Yes, this article was shared and discussed in SEC two days ago.

[main ledge]

I mentioned I think last week or so that I believe the butterflies to be a proto lifeform or building blocks of life like amino acids that can condense into various forms. They come from condensed ember/flames as we’ve seen a few times now through the game.

Also assuming earthling line if evolution, some types of animals we see implies mammals/land creatures have once existed besides the 9 colored deer, since manatees, whales, and masks of other mammals exist. There is also Oreo, Mimi, the Shiba Inu in office as well as other mammals if you want to count them as possible proof

[main ledge]

Sorry am catching up since I’ve had a crazy busy few days with moving and packing

[ashen berry]

Why did they even separate that city from everything else by floating it up?

Why was the floating City even made in the first place?

[scenic pebble]

what too much darkstone does to a facility

[ashen berry]

Whar, can you explain pls?

[scenic pebble]

err
okay, i'll elaborate
first, it can be read as a separation between Resh and the world below and him trying to reach out to the powers above
second, it could've just happened this way because of just how much darkstone.. stuff was probably going on in the palace
third, The Shard seems like a worthy culprit, maybe it just lifted the palace or more likely, that the Shard just simply had to be separated from the Eden mountain since now it's significantly closer to it and bad stuff happened and happens, though it may just be corelation and not causation
in essence, represents the hubris of darkstone and nets Resh passive aura income

[ashen fractal]

This might be placing a little too much compassion for the King, but also having a large darkstone crystal near the population seems bad. Maybe initially it was made so they could store light and use it, without making people sick.

[drowsy garnet]

hi guys my friend just had a cool idea about the krills in the animation vs ingame

they said they think the krills in the past were so fast bc they were consuming so much light, and now ingame they are slower and smaller because they are light-starved

i loved this idea so much!

[ashen berry]

This gives me an idea 😏
(bröther, may I häve some Light? I'm stærving)

[distant pebble]

I mean darkstone is literally a security thing in tte so the population kinda needed it in that particular point of time or what are you talking about

[ashen berry]

I have a question.
Why did Eden Crystal (or however is that big Crystal called) shatter?

[wintry matrix]

We dont know. Popular theory is that the King pumped too much juice into it.

[sharp shore]

additionally that and also i have a hunch it may be on purpose or by accident
if it were on purpose that makes the story even more tragic

[sharp shore]

yes lol she hung it up as memorabilia /j

[wintry matrix]

Sentries salute to you when walking past you on the street when you have the ult cape on. I guess they see you as someone very special.

Edit, not only sentries, other npc too.

[ashen berry]

How do you have the ult cape already?

[wintry matrix]

I have adult money.

[ashen berry]

Also, can you show me how does the T3 Star Pattern on that cape look like?

I've only ever seen base and T2 of them so far.

[ashen berry]

Thanks!
«{⟨✧⟩}»
. .(^-^). .
. ⟨`♥️'\ .

[wintry matrix]

Im close to 12 flaps but not yet, missed lot of TS to burnouts.

[wintry matrix]

Bright first image warning. Closeup of the towers, handheld props might still be bugged, there was nothing about them being fixed in patchnotes.

[tawdry gyro]

pretty

[echo atlas]

I think its supposed to resemble our que- i mean the vault elder

[spiral vault]

Not that, but they got their light restored after going to Orbit

[spiral vault]

Or maybe places below the cloud cover, Wasteland and Forest are the two most damaged areas

[sour sphinx]

I might end up doing that too once I get the ULT cape 😺

I feel like the Ult Gift head accessory and the Ult cape were switched before? Like the cape and then the accessory

[wintry matrix]

Yes of course. But we are not vault elder and surely the npcs are not dumb either.

[scenic pebble]

all this is beginning to haunt me

[wintry matrix]

From where do we even have information about it means safety?

[narrow marsh]

Where are the caption words above from?
~~oh you beat me to it ~~

[echo atlas]

Say that to my soon to be real vault elder sky kid (haven't gotten the cape yet but im almost there)

[narrow marsh]

You should use tall spell to get close to their real height as possible!

[echo atlas]

True!

Ill have too use the journey (yellowish 1) hood tho, bc i haven't completed vault constiletion (there's no way im getting 50 hearts anytime soon)

[narrow marsh]

For the longest time I’m pretty sure that had always been quite simply the Belonging emblem though I have seen it in concept art somewhere, either on Zhao’s site or pinterest, with a caption too! It’s too early to assume that caption certainly said safety, though 🕯️

[wintry matrix]

Mhm.

[echo atlas]

[narrow marsh]

You guys will both get to be Vault Elders! Cool!

But also, why magenta like that?

[echo atlas]

I think its pretty, altho i might for blue to match with vaults blue ness

[narrow marsh]

Yes I also think that would work very well

[wintry matrix]

That cape is meant to resemble her TTE fit and I did not dye it on the screenshot.

[scenic pebble]

it just kind of came to me after i stared at all the "eyes" in the game
i'm gonna need to do a review of all the symbols now that i'm adding the darkstone brand to my notes anyways

[nimble ingot]

curious question.
If those with masks are those who have a role or status in society, what does it make those without any masks?

So far in the Two Embers series there aren't any ancestors without a mask (as far as I recall, please do correct me if I am wrong).
However we do know that maskless spirits can appear in the game.

Then again, that question may not work since a lot of ancestors from the game have a status in their names at least. From the warriors, to the citizens and even some priests. So that said, maybe there is a different reason why some ancestors have no mask.

Are the masks mandatory to help prevent illness?

[wintry matrix]

So it is just your own headcanon then? Because this symbol appears on skid chests too and yes, it meaning protection would to some degree make sense on skids but also why would skids have protection symbol on them? And why would Lamed? And other elders? And then grandmas table out of places and belonging spirit masks?

[winged bison]

from my guess, there's no maskless ancestors in the two embers on purpose to avoid perhaps giving them facial features
we know the art book said facial features made stuff uncanny valley. Probably due to everyone in the two embers making noises like breathing, chatting, laughing, or whistling. Perhaps everyone wearing masks was to be left ambiguous beacuse of that
my guess anyways

[nimble ingot]

Agreed.
Which is an interesting take on how faces are very expressive but also have meaning.

Hiding a face takes away a character's identity and their emotions.
A mask replaces that and becomes emphasised this point of focus for the audience.

Their eyes are the most expressive part of their faces in the animation, and in turn adds a sense of innocence or honesty.
Anything from the way they narrow their gaze, or widen their eyes in surprise, or remain aloof tells the audience about how the character feels.
This form of limitation amplifies their emotion.

[winged bison]

we also have it where if one has an mask without eyes seen, aka the ruler, their emotion is shown through body language

[ashen fractal]

I meant part of the reason for making the castle float and keeping it away, even from the Vault of knowledge, could have also been to reduce everyone's exposure to the dark stone. As that might have been seen as one of the things causing the sickness. And we know from trailers it is likely the kind lost a loved one to the illness.

I was speaking in terms of, aside from keeping it further away from the city for security reasons (someone sneaking in and seeing it), it may have been kept away from even the Vault because of what it could. Since there are people working in the Vault.

I was just mentioning there could be lots of other practical reasons for making the castle float aside from just the impractical egotistical ones.

[nimble ingot]

Also, on the uncanny valley aspect.
I recall that for the game. And from what I gathered it was about how the stylised design of sky made designing realistic faces tricky.
A flat surface with that amount concentrated detail like eyes and a mouth was unbalanced (again, as part of my observation).

The final character design was resolved to being a simplified balance of just glowing eyes (no eye lashes or even pupils), and no mouth.
The no mouth part may have more so been attributed to the game not having dialogue. So the lack of a mouth solidified the idea that talking would not be included much.

[winged bison]

simplified style with no facial features is a nice style, the two pairs of glowing eyes reminds me of void cats, love it

talking wise, definitely can see it being telepathic if ancestors indeed do not have mouths in the two embers- closest we see to someone maskless is Dawn Ember unlit in the void room in the trailer

[scenic pebble]

It's mostly just my guess based on cross refrencing all the stuff i see
I guess i'm going to have a great day with all that stuff you just mentiones
Cross refrencing it again and linking it with the Light extractors fron TTE could've just meant "rest" or "regeneration"
Anyways, where is the "eye" found on the skids? I'm kinda curious ngl and maybe it means that the skid is somehow "safe" from the perils of this world since it is forever tied to the Light Cycle
As to the Elders... Maybe their guidance made people feel safer and it just stuck with them, or maybe their sole presence was calming like a silent "it's gonna be alright"
As for the grandma's table....
It's literally not raining there, that's reason enough for me to call it safe
For the Spirits... I haven't looked at them yet
I feel like i'm commiting some sort of a logical fallacy here, just not sure which one

[winged violet]

Royal or high status

[gusty grail]

to my understanding the reason for draining the manatees was for the city's beeping light like ig anti krill lights?

[wintry matrix]

Fairly positive he still has a mask on.

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[winged bison]

Ooo so hard to tell with them being so far away from view

[lost pecan]

Staring so intently at the final quest. (spoilers maybe) ||DID WE JUST GET CASUAL CONFIRMATION THAT THE DUSK EMBER IS HOPEFUL STEWARD??? THAT'S THE SAME MODEL||

[trim jay]

this just makes me wonder how they found aviary village unless aviary is like their and the spirits resting place or something since they dont necessarily act like theyre in a memory unlike how the spirits act in the realms

[grave laurel]

owie ow

[grave laurel]

oh absolutely, now we ||wait to find out how they got to aviary||
||it feels so good as a dusk ember = hopeful steward truther to finally get vindication||

[lost pecan]

YEAH

Does this mean though that there are alternate timelines at play I wonder. Because the manatee that TTE Dusk Ember had of course perished but. ||Dusk Ember/Steward in game's in evidently Alive, considering we were reliving their memories this whole time||

[trim jay]

maybe since ||we didnt see dusk in the memory hold a shard with INTENT|| 😭

[lost pecan]

Plus we literally ||See Them with the manatee during the final quest||

[wintry matrix]

QUEST 5 SPOILERS

Then perish.

[lost pecan]

AHAHA

[wintry matrix]

I need to finish my thesis. ||Quest 5 did mix up things a bit so I need to rewrite some parts.||

[trim jay]

the fact that were gonna be in a two embers drought is making me lose my mind i need part 2 NOW

[valid dagger]

||Lamed's|| intrusive thoughts be like:

[lost pecan]

I do wonder as well what this means for the Lore of the elders. Because canonically they're stuck in their little void spaces and have little influence over their temples. Does this make the Vault Elder the exception? Are they the only one that can travel outside of it due to their memory capabilities?

[trim jay]

tbh i just assumed we were living in someone elses memories, not specifically dusk/stewies

[wintry matrix]

Also please turn on the music during the last quest. Thank me later.

[grave laurel]

excellent spelling lore chat

that was /lh btw

this quest is not helping my animatic planning, it’s just making me want to make it more but i NEED to study

[wintry matrix]

||She must be so annoyed watching me running around with camera instead of properly reliving the memories.||

||Thats quite tiny krill.||

[grave laurel]

||i think she understands, she literally vlogged stewies trauma as soon as they walked in ||

[wintry matrix]

||The group visit in the way makes the scenes look a bit goofy lol||

[valid dagger]

||So, the last quest is exactly my predictions, being summary of everything that happens. Meaning, we might get the real deal (shattering event and etc) later in part 2||

[wintry matrix]

major spoilers but

big honker chonker

Ok this is my new favorite photo of mine.

[wintry matrix]

Oh.

||Now I wonder if it is Lameds doing or Stew survived the krill attack and later went to put it there.||

[noble ferry]

||ME CULINARY WORLDBUILDING LORE||

[safe nebula]

I almost screamed at 3AM when I saw the options to pet and cuddle the manatee

I’ve been giving belly rubs to the goodest light boi for 30 minutes and no one can stop me

[wintry matrix]

This prop has special function too by the way. Up to you to find which :)

[celest saffron]

HOHOHOOOO
I USED THE SHIELD TO DODGE A KRILL
AND GUESS WHAT
I T W O R K E D

[noble ferry]

||i would kill for a culinary season i just want to see these spirits cook||

||I’d really love to bake bread with some spirits||

[winged bison]

after quest 5, my brain is completely fried with the timeline because the game and show have differences to one another on how some events played out ahah

[noble ferry]

Tgc please stop hurting our brain with the timelines 😭

[wintry matrix]

||Wondering if the non color defined logo is design choice or bug. And if design choice if it has some other meaning or not.||

[rugged fable]

Are you gonna release it here?

[wintry matrix]

I will post it to #promote-your-sky-content as always.

[winged bison]

theoretically, if we were Dusk Ember all this time [since the memories shows Hopeful Steward's hair doing all of this], not only have we seen an entire scene in the show where Dusk Ember tries get their manatee into GW Temple, then to see it die from those light sucky things, then to everything around them is already destroyed as they head back to GW temple, to the scene where they pick up darkstone on a mission to stab the ruler - then there's the in game 3rd quest where everything isn't destroyed yet and we're helping out Stern Shepherd out of danger and then managed to sneak a manatee into GW temple. It just cannot work with Dusk Ember as we've already established what they did when everyone was retreating into GW temple - them in vault in episode 3/4
we know as well Dusk Ember comes back into the GW temple on the 4th episode where everyone is still fine. If it does imply you possibly being dusk ember who dies in there along with all the others as seen on the 4th quest and going by off hopeful and dusk are the same, then how does aviary come in? [if we got a very brief scene of the memory child walking to vault's elevator, it would clear up that dusk is still alive]
If it's a random ancestor child it's easy to go along the differences of different POVs, but the memory child having Hopeful Steward's hair has thrown my brain off hahaha
I do hope we get more clarification, because stuff is quite mixed up atm

don't mind me being confused, still processing the whole thing

[rugged fable]

I just finished watchint all the episodes... my god.. i'll never look at gw and vault the same ever again

[hexed hound]

I'm noticing some kind of noise effect on the logo

[wintry matrix]

Also something I can finally talk about outside beta channels:

||The elders are still alive just like us. Lamed lacks the grayish silver aura spirits and guides have. Her body and mask also lacks the "starry" effect like spirits have and overall she looks very much tangible just like ancestors we meet in Last City and rest of elders we meet in their cutscenes.

Hands, clothing and faces of spirits and guides for comparison and then Lamed.||

[winged bison]

The vault elder does have the star effect, I noticed it when we first talk to them before the memory starts

also the POV shot of them putting their hand on your head made me chuckle every time

[wintry matrix]

||Yes but only on the decals which are golden in the movie. We also have couple of glittery cosmetics. Her hands and face lacks it in both forms. Also makes zero sense why would she suddenly "become" tangible when everything else and every other memory has everyone being spirits.||

[winged bison]

OHH, that makes sense

it's sort of comforting[?] to know that the elder's are still alive

[wintry matrix]

||Here is her face outside memory, no star effects.||

||And here she is in background still outside the memory but after the memory played. I think the first "before quest" moment was more like astral projection than her directly being there until we accept her request. Then she appears in person.||

She also glows from within just like us and other light creatures

[winged bison]

I wonder if their old model hasn't changed to the new one in the older cutscenes, I assume it hasn't - their remodel is so pretty would love to see it in the old cutscenes

[winged bison]

would make sense since Elders and Skykids share a lot of similarities, including the simple they have on their chests

[wintry matrix]

Oh Im actually planning to feedback it to get other elders rework too and see them like that in cutscenes and on orbit

[winged bison]

I need to make a reaction image at some point with vault's hand in front of the screen saying "Silence child"

[wintry matrix]

Didnt do it yet cuz you cant live feedback something that is not in live game yet (until today) lol

||The camera prop ruined the second photo a bit but its interesting that Stew is not present in the goodbye moment and also there are only 4 gravestones, not 5. They survived.||

[winged bison]

I do wish that Tender Toymaker was in the area when you load in to fit in with the 'a familiar face', they're the only one missing out. At least the manatee got a grave dedicated to them while Tender didn't 😭

[wintry matrix]

I think they mean the manatee to be the familiar face, especially when you can hear it calling to you from within the lantern and also getting really happy after sniffing out your scent in distance.

[winged bison]

OO, right that makes sense I just assumed it was the spirits for some reason

[rugged fable]

May i know where this is?

[winged bison]

It's by Resourceful Recluse, it's on the opposite side to them on the right by a wall

[wintry matrix]

Finsih quest 5 to find it.

[stable veldt]

This season wrecked me

[valid dagger]

Finally, a new challenger to season of rememberance for the most emotional wrecking seasons in sky history ever

[stable veldt]

They were implied to survive iirc up until the aviary village. The latest appearance of them was in season of duet, where they were still seen accompanying the duo musicians.

IIRC the canonical timeline was from this season -> abyss -> moments (?) -> duets

[onyx surge]

so! other ppl have the theory that scarred sentry is wasteland elder (which i only found out recent), while i had the theory/headcanon that they's actually the prairie elder in some form or shape of "willing" rebirth or physical reform like against the king, cuz gentle giants finding their courage is sooo🥺. and that maybe the other elders did smth similar, orrr it was just an ayin thing. who knoes.
(exhibit 1: the one twinkling eye in the prairie elder altar cutscene is the same as the scarred eye of sentry!! lookie me reaching to hell & back for a theory!!! LMAO).
yea it's just an unlikely theory of mine but it fr sounded awesome when i first thought of it all🥀 anybody got similar theories to go with the lore? cuz like sky is big on rebirth & cycles

[wintry matrix]

Yes I know. There is no canonical confirmation about the seasons timeline though, everything is result of observations.

[wintry matrix]

This has been discussed here before and scarred sentry is not wasteland elder but maybe his apprentice instead.

There are couple of things that wouldnt make sense timeline wise if sentry was elder.

[onyx surge]

yeah i don't think he's gw elder, i did hear the apprentice theory too(?. ik it's possible as there was also this other spirit which was canonically released(? with the curious facts that they was a "mentee" to one of the elders, which i hadn't thought possible before, but i can't find which one it was now. i think flight guide?

[wintry matrix]

The one blinking eye is likely refference to wasteland elder concept art. He was originally meant ti be half corrupted by darkness.

It can also be visual bug because those glowing eyes on altars are buggy as hell in every temple.

[wintry matrix]

Flight guide is canonically apprentice of Prairie elder and Nesting guide is hinted to be apprentice or friend of Forest elder as we have photo of them together in game and also Nesting guide brings you to the same garden where this photo is from during quest.

[muted salmon]

you know, out of all of this, have we ever seen any of the elders be this colorful?

[wintry matrix]

Yet.

[onyx surge]

that's the one. initially blew my mind to think of the elders interacting more directly with some more "regular' ancestors, which i hadn't rly interpreted them to do, til that point. especially in such personal ways. hoping more lore comes abt it fr

[wintry matrix]

If they gonna dress up in their realm butterdyes then Ayin in yellow/orange dress would look so cute. Also yellow is associated with youth I think? Prairie is meant to represent childhood.

[wintry matrix]

There is also theory that Alef (dawn ember) was apprentice of Isle elder. And Dusk ember would maybe become Vault elder apprentice if shattering did not happen.

Also we as skids are lowkey Vault apprentices too during this season if you think about it.

[muted salmon]

does... anyone have a picture of dusk ember during last quest and stewie from first quest, because I think all they did was chubbify stewie for the ember

[wintry matrix]

I dont have anything else on hand now.

[muted salmon]

...oh, it's more of a shoeless stewie then

[wintry matrix]

Here is simmilar angle to the last picture if you wanna compare.

[muted salmon]

...kinda a shoeless version of stewie, the same animation they're in shows more spiky hair

[obsidian scarab]

I just realized something. Are the Elders all actually alive?

[wintry matrix]

Ultimate cape area spoiler
||Lamed enters the temple at x:40 (yet to check if every hour or every other hour), does some sort of ritual (there is whole cinematic cutscene) and gives everyone in the temple 10 hours fast recharge spell.||

[muted salmon]

I wonder if they're gonna update the version of the Elder seen on Orbit or at the end of the Vault temple

I don't think the version that we had since the start has that long... clothing? thing? which also seem unique to Vault Elder only

[wintry matrix]

The more we feedbac it the higher the chances are.

[wintry matrix]

You mean the tabard? The purple piece of fabric?

[muted salmon]

looking from this snapshot by the wiki to your images though... actually I think there's no need to update save for the belt

[wintry matrix]

Yeah those models are from 2018/2019, you can find the same models in Light Awaits videos.

[muted salmon]

the old model with the muted colors and almost merged clothing and no belt vs TE Vault Elder, which shows a more clear distinction + string belt

[wintry matrix]

You can play rock tossing game with kids and try to toss rocks into the cart, this is such a wave of whimsy, its literally something you would expect kids without technology to do in their free time and I love that Please more of this in part 2.

Racing and football is common but this one is really... how to say it... iconic? Like something that definitely exists irl but its not on the list of first things coming to your mind when thinking about what games would kids play.

[sour sphinx]

I had a Sky dream last night 😆 All the Elders were there except for the twins

[sour sphinx]

And the Forest Elder had a kid

[winged bison]

looking at the pictures out of context: ||it looks like Vault Elder just walks in, puts on hot water for the hot tub for everyone, then leaves||

[distant pebble]

She's so nonchalant

[wintry matrix]

Last City also had its own dye shop.

[wintry matrix]

I mean... it is not that far from the actual cutscene

[winged bison]

Vault Elder is the only one who can afford the heating bills, they'll only let you in the hot rub party out of pity if you got the sickness. Jkjk

[wintry matrix]

||That bath is full of light motes (you even get passive wax from it) and she basically does a ritual to "renew" the motes.||

[winged bison]

I wonder how they get dyes from since light is scarce - from butterflies still or maybe from plants?

[wintry matrix]

You can dye stuff with plants, fruits and veggies.

[winged bison]

Oooo, can't wait to see this when getting the cape

[winged bison]

makes sense, can see this dye maker trade items with some of the food shops - they got nice vibrant food colours

[sour sphinx]

Same 😁

[wintry matrix]

Some dyes can also be made out of crushed bugs (carmine) but I guess those were rather used for light.

[winged bison]

Now I have this imagination of this dye shop keeper walking outside the last city with a bat to beat up a krill with and use one of its spikes to use as black dye

[drowsy flare]

About the little bonus at the end of the last quest ||Weirdly the Manatee tailwag (tailflap?) when we reunite makes the season end all the more sad to me. ||

[wintry matrix]

He wags the tail during first quest too

[drowsy flare]

Right, but it was mostly the whole zoom in, the manatee realizing we were around again, and they started flapping.

After everything we've seen it sorta hit me.

[gilded socket]

how much does it change knowing the elders are alive?

[spiral vault]

I just hope and pray that specific part is non-canon

Because it makes literally no sense. In fact, most of the season works best if you only consider the show to be the main canon

[spiral vault]

"Quest 5 isn't canon" is about the best I can muster up.

[wintry matrix]

They are not in the void anymore, we gave them back their light and they are now on Orbit. sorry for tag i did not see the time

[spiral vault]

I think quest 5 showed us that the other quests resembled Stewie's actions, but we still play as a different child.

First quest makes sense, it's just a prequel to episode 1

Second quest could take place between episodes 1 and 2

Third quest is a bit harder, but we don't know the exact time between episodes 2 and 3, it could take place then. In the memories only see Stewie helping out the Stern Shepherd, not leading the manatee into the temple.

Fourth quest takes place after episode 4

Because of this, I think the only canon parts of the in-game season are the short memory snippets in quest 5. Everything else is non-canon.

[pure panther]

I might be deadly wrong but

I feel as if maybe resh might not be the second ember

AGAIN PLS I KNOW I COULD B 100% WRONG but it's just a theory I have that is probably not true, I can't really explain

Even if resh is who the second part will focus on, to me it's possible he isn't the second ember

[nimble ingot]

(late reply)
The elders have fallen (aka dead)

[wintry matrix]

Jenova quoted about Dawn Ember "It tells the story of two children, and the drama about the two of them trying to help people. One of them seeks power to change the world, but in the process he’s corrupted and destroyed. The other one tries to save the world by convincing the former world to give up its power." It is mentioned that “the boy becomes a king” but it is unclear which child they are referring to.

Source: https://venturebeat.com/games/how-sky-the-children-of-the-light-broke-records-for-most-simultaneous-people-on-the-screen-jenova-chen-interview/

[sharp shore]

her mask kinda looks longer in game compared to tte though ngl

like slightly

[wintry matrix]

Please refer to conversation slightly above your message: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[sharp shore]

also yeah idk where her belt went it probably went flying during the shattering or something

if we will go with the lore reason

other than that im pretty sure they just went with the light awaits stuff for some reason

[sharp shore]

im sorry but ||beta lameds model for the tte season kills me idk why shes just standing there like 🧍‍♀️ IN EVERY IMAGE I SEE||

[wintry matrix]

She is walking around in the ultimate cape temple. But only for certain periods of time.

[sharp shore]

i really do like her in-game model though

tte made her look slightly different but i think thats more or less with how animation worked or something

[wintry matrix]

Well you are comparing 2018/2019 models with 2025 ones after all.

[sharp shore]

yeah

i wonder how the other elders would look in part 2

[wintry matrix]

I think they will each wear their most common realm colors (hard to say for isle elder, maybe just plain black like now). For example Ayin being dressed in yellow/orange and red would make sense, yellow is often associated with happiness, joy and warmth, same for orange. Prairie is all about childhood and what emotions you experience during childhood? happiness, joy and warmth.

Purple is color of wisdom. Fitting for Lamed.

[sharp shore]

if forest represents adolescence then teth could wear gloomier colors

she looks like shed wear muted green or grey

tsadi could wear more similarly to what the sentries/the army wore

i think military colors are leaning on black and red mostly

we havent seen living athletes yet in sky since everyone wee see is dead

but red and pink seem popular there, along with yellow-orange (plus its sunset)

the twins could prolly wear that

[sharp shore]

HOLD UP LUCA I SAW THE MEME CHAT BY ACCIDENT 😭 R U SAYING LAMED IS IN THE LATEST QUEST

or am i freeaking out for no reason or IS THIS AN ULT GIFT THING 💔

i saw a meme about a quest and lamed was there

[wintry matrix]

Her realm also has lot of cyan color. Besides water (there is creek running through whole realm with lake around temple and of course rain, Teth also got blue elemental light/water from Alef and of course it is raining there), cyan is also color representing tranquility, calmness and serenity. Rain also ewokes those feelings and during adolescence you are also more emotionally sensitive and driven by those emotions. It is also color of creativity, just like this realm elder.

Green, outside representing nature, also something related to forest, is color of harmony but it also symbolises negative emotions like envy and jealousy. There is reason why is it color of that emotion in Inside out.

[wintry matrix]

Yeah she is.

[sharp shore]

can i clarify

is this a quest or is this the tranquil area after you get the cape?

NO WAYYYYYYY alright i need to log in like... tonight...

[wintry matrix]

Have fun, it is quite emotional.

[muted salmon]

you know... this proves the quests were prequels to the adjacent chapters in the TE film

still found it weird how in-game ember is just... stewie with more messy hair and shoeless

[wintry matrix]

Sequels in case of quest 4. The manatees are already dead.

[muted salmon]

prequels for the first two quests, sequels on the last two quests

[wintry matrix]

Ingame Dusk Ember is same model as Stew, just shoeless.

[muted salmon]

Dusk Ember has a hairlick that Stewie doesn't have

(hdr is not letting me capture a crop of your image lol

[wintry matrix]

Oh the second image is mirrored, I flipped it to match the angle in the void.

[muted salmon]

oh

[wintry matrix]

Lemme fetch proper angle.

Sorry for delayed answer, had to run to geyser first.

[sharp shore]

this is so eerie

its like revival was giving us hints the whole time

[empty needle]

Ngl I thought it was obvious 😭

[sharp shore]

i mean yeah it was obvious but damn they spelled it out for us 😭

[wintry matrix]

One of the revival manequins directly hints on the little boy dusk heals.

[sour sphinx]

So it's official that Stewart is the Dusk Ember, right? The hairstyle gives it away, of course

Maybe not? I always enjoy seeing theories about it though

[wintry matrix]

Not directly officially said by TGC but the last quest very heavily hints towards that as we literally see Hopeful Steward in role of Dusk Ember.

[sour sphinx]

I just started processing that.

But I still enjoy seeing theories about it though 😉

[gusty grail]

if we cant put the newest spirits to rest just their memories how come we can put the past seasons ones? they all died presumably in a bad way

[winged bison]

interestingly when given the candle, we don't see the crystals glow to heal on the kid or the other ancestors who were given a candle unlike the manatee or fish where it does do a glow. Though of course the healing effect happened off screen, just thought it was interesting to not see that effect happen right away [though the manatee's crystals didn't do it right away either ]

[winged bison]

definitely agree on the idea that we're still playing a different child
trying to intertwine everything becomes a massive mess on Dusk's journey in game and the one in show - especially quest 3 and episode 3/4

[wintry matrix]

Important fact - fish was healed with mote, not flame. It started healing instantly. The people and assuming manatee too were healed by flame and the healing didnt instantly take effect. The candles are made of motes, maybe they are not as potent as raw motes?

[winged bison]

oo perhaps, would be cool to get a better visual explanation in part 2 on the healing techniques maybe
can see the sense of it working slower for a candle, maybe with ancestors being bigger than the Dusk's baby manatee at the time worked a lot quicker due to it being smaller

[narrow marsh]

WHAT

[narrow marsh]

But longer lasting, nurturing even, perhaps 🕯️

[wintry matrix]

Theres more.

[trim jay]

so uhh maybe because i cant read im an undertale fan but like arent ||the elders supposed to be dead|| 😭 ||why doesnt the vault elder look like a spirit like everyone else in quest 5 unless theyre also part of the projection too|| maybe im sleep deprived idk

[wintry matrix]

Elders come from same source as us - from megabird (source: 2019 official TGC livestream) but they are not directly related to us (so no sibilings or parents to us), just as we are more resistant to dying and even when dead we arent really dead, so can propably be elders. Vault elder even glows with warm gold light from within just like light cretures do.

They are fallen stars like us and the falling stars you see in old intro are them (sourced from the same livestream).

500 years ago VS present day :)

I hope the first picture is visible, discord seems to be struggling a little with it.

[midnight sonnet]

These looks

[midnight sonnet]

Omg where is that from the first picture

[sour sphinx]

I noticed that she appears differently than what we currently see her at the Vault's Summit

[rustic frigate]

Its interesting that there is a candle laying right near Stewart's husk that we pick up.. maybe its the same candle they were holding in the end of the series even? ik its red and the one they made was white but still..

[wintry matrix]

Because one model is from 2018 and the other from 2025.

[sour sphinx]

She looks good either way ✨

[distant pebble]

It's the cape's special ability

[wintry matrix]

Ultimate cape area, I can bring you there if you want. Lamed goes there every hour for short cutscene.

[coral oracle]

VAULT ELDER IS A NORMAL HEIGHT BREAKING NEWS

[wintry matrix]

She is actually the same height as her old model and roughly the same as in movie.

Here is height comparison of both in game and in movie elders, Steward ans chibi mask skid by Ash: #lore-discussion-spoilers message here is the inches conversion of same chart by Tristan #lore-discussion-spoilers message and here is the original by amaradiantlight #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[distant pebble]

My message been linked life is complete

[midnight sonnet]

I’d love that

[winged bison]

definitely not, what we know of Dusk Ember is that there's is a good gap between them getting out of vault, possibly confronting the ruler in part 2, then travelling all the way to aviary, have buildings and stuff established there, and then the events of the shards hitting aviary village - so Dusk Ember/Hopeful Steward would have more candles forged/made by then. If we go further with Dusk Ember being a sky kid when alive, then that's their candle they had in life before inevitably dying, which leads into that interesting thought that Dusk Ember must've been aware of sky kid's coming in the future to leave the candle out like that for them

[wintry matrix]

Omg did you like lurk into my wip dusk stew analysis or-

[winged bison]

dunno, lurking is my speciality

[wintry matrix]

It is eerily simmilar to what I have in there but also lacking some key info that I did include

Now when the quest is out whole I can rewrite some parts and publish it once this fast changing weather and temperature stops, Im barely coping rn

[spiral vault]

Yes, especially because caring companion is meant to be someone different. But still, it seems we did mostly the same thing Dusk Ember did, with the one exception is we successfully saved our manatee

[spiral vault]

Yeah that's why I view quest 5 as non canon

[winged bison]

We also had proper interactions between all the seasonal ancestors in the season, while Dusk only had two with Tender Toymaker and Resourceful Recluse [Stern Shepherd and Scarred Sentry seemingly only interacted once with Dusk from what we saw]

[distant pebble]

She's most definitely shorter tho!!

[wintry matrix]

Oh? She seemed same to me.

[distant pebble]

I had to check twice but ig she lost feet

[winged bison]

it makes me wonder, if the elder's are still alive, I wonder what they are doing - I thought they may have been trapped in their own bubble or something, but it looks like Vault Elder can just walk out into the sky world
though that also makes me wonder about the graves we see of the elder's like are they actually nor graves?

[wintry matrix]

Dusk and Shepherd most definitely had to interact more off screen, there is no way shepherd wouldnt notice this child running around with sickly manatee with deformed fin when he lost exactly the sickly manatee with deformed fin.

Also shepherd intro says that he has been eyeing the manatee toy for ages and in movie that toy is made by dusk and not toymaker.

[winged bison]

oh yeah forgot about that
I was more thinking of the quest 3 and episode 3 difference, since we know Dusk on screen didn't help stern shepherd into the GW temple

[wintry matrix]

We gave them light back and they moved to Orbit! Looks like they can just go back down now, kinda like we use rebirth gate. Maybe they just walk around their realms, trying to help us restore it from background or maybe megabird gave them some power to freely “teleport” between kingdom and orbit as much they want.

[winged bison]

ooohh flame made them come back to life, ancestors just become spirits while elder's jsut come back to life - they're all op haha
I do hope we get more elder's appearances after this, can't let that new vault elder model go to waste

[wintry matrix]

I mean, if elders are like us, the flame did the same thing that does to skid who lost their light.

Manifesting vault elder dailies fr.

[pastel brook]

Whoa...my AI mind is blown!

[distant pebble]

Not before they add me to the game/j

[wintry matrix]

“Have tea with Vault Elder in Aviary Village” im running

[spiral vault]

I forgot about the orbit thing, yeah that makes living elders a lot more sense

I just wish we could meet them more often or something

[narrow marsh]

What in TTE is this being compared to?

[wintry matrix]

Theres Enchantment guide out of bounds in marketplace. And not even hidden, Im surprised they kept him there even after patch update cuz now you can easily see and fly to him, before that you had to go around whole temple or go over the wall using shared space to see him. Pretty positive I could find other ancestors in movie or Last City wearing simmilar stuff to revival if you give me some time and motivation.

Theres Duets guide in out of bounds too.

[winged bison]

hoping that'll be the case now we got a new model for vault elder and know a lot more about them

[wintry matrix]

I hope that if valley elders also get new model they get the outfits they briefly had in Light Awaits because I love those fits and Im so sad they got kigurumi instead

Look what they robbed from us

They look so cool

[winged bison]

a merge between their old and current design would be really cool

[trim jay]

vault elder daily be like: Relive dusks trauma

[wintry matrix]

Original concept for dreams guide was for sure something-

[wintry matrix]

Oh I also saw abyss ultimate cape in TTE movie!

No face was visible to tell if it is abyss guide or not but it looked very simmilar to the ultimate cape.

[winged bison]

in an older trailer, we do see the head/face of the ancestor who wears the cape

[ashen berry]

Can you show me their current design pls? For comparison

[wintry matrix]

Ooh, thats not where I saw it though.

[winged bison]

yeee, the one we see in the show is in the first episode when Dusk Ember is interacting with the kid if I recall - I haven't tried looking for it again in the other episodes though, so most likely appeared again but I haven't seen it
the picture I've shown is a scene we only see in the trailer where Dusk Ember runs past the crowd, of course this scene did not make it into release [I think this same scene plays but there's no one around in the official release version- might be false memory though]

[wintry matrix]

Yes, it walks by during the little child scene.

[winged bison]

I remember trying to look through that scene a few times in hope to see their face, but nope, at least we got a trailer to know what they look like

also got the ancestor that looked like Anxious Angler where we only saw their body in episode 1, didn't get to see their face/head until a very brief second in the 4th episode but it was too quick for me to process their looks though hahah

[wintry matrix]

Yep.

Also.

It looks more like abyss ultimate cape in movie than on concept art.

[winged bison]

finally seeing their face for a brief second in episode 4, I recall their hair being different to Anxious Angler but cannot remember if they wore a hat or not-

[winged bison]

finding concept art making its way into the show is really cool it's hard to tell between Ceasing Commodore's cape and Abyss's cape due to lighting, can't see the cape's fluff very well

[wintry matrix]

I think they eventually split this one into those two.

[wintry matrix]

Also those two appear together in one scene so it is not like that person changed clothes.

[winged bison]

the easter eggs are 👌 finally out of the concept after late 2021[?] ahah
cannot wait to see part 2 do the same having old concept spirits as background characters

[wintry matrix]

Theres also those two.

[hushed steeple]

Im sure its been asked about a hundred times, but what's with the masks

[winged bison]

OOH, the first one is really cool- justice to coming to life
cannot express enough the style of the show is absolutely beautiful

[hoary meadow]

Came here to find ppl who could help me cook the lore for a Sonic x Sky AU, since you guys understand from the lroe much more than I

Anything I probably need to know?

[winged bison]

most people say they wear masks cultural reasons, another theory too for hierarchy, there's also been a few recent theories lately of wearing masks gives them from protection from the sickness. I don't think there is an actual confirmed reason anywhere why, so most of it is guess and theories. Cultural makes the most sense
Game wise, going off memory here, anyone feel free to correct me: I think masks was added to make up for the lack of facial features in the game, as well as make the characters more neutral or something like the player can relate more with it having a faceless character with a mask. I know I may got some points wrong here, but hope some of it was correct

[brittle smelt]

When did you realize the vault elder lantern is the lantern depicted in the constellation

[hoary meadow]

I do wonder.. With their technology... Would it be possible for golems to exist?

[ashen berry]

If it is, then my OCs can be canon compliant, as they're essentially Light-powered Golems (or "Guardians", as I've established the species(?) name for them).

Which is a possibility that I DID NOT imagine possible lol.

[hoary meadow]

Lol XD. I mean... If we have floating boats... We can have golems

[ashen berry]

Wait, where in this server can we discuss about Sky CotL OCs? /Gen

[sour sphinx]

I'm mostly going to the #general-sky-discussion or to the #sky-fanart-sketches-and-art-chat

[versed sun]

does anyone know where i could dig deeper into the basegame lore? ive been playing for 4 years but still have no idea what we went through

[hoary meadow]

I havenno idea either... Im just searching on google and checking out the events. There are videos who explains a few theories about the lore

[distant pebble]

There was several links for some lore stuff for cases like that but I don't have 'em so might need to wait for tomte or Luca to send them or whatever

[brittle smelt]

Hey, can I post some headcannons to see if there is any evidence for or against them?

[hoary meadow]

Go ahead ow o

[brittle smelt]

Okie

Skykids are immortal, eden is rebirth
They can't speak verbally apart from calls and big calls
The spirits are dead, we are viewing memories of them
Nesting guide is friends with forest elder
Valley elders are best friends, they are just super competitive
Vault elder created shared space/memory shrines
Wasteland elder is the youngest
Wax is equivalent to their blood
Dark plants are poisonous to skykids
the Eden statues are dead skykids, you give them winged light so they can be reborn.
Vault of Knowledge is inside the wasteland temple
The Vault elder is the oldest elder
Nesting guide helps build Aviary Village

[distant pebble]

Valley elders are confirmed twins so they would need to be friends because I think that's how family works, not sure
Dark plants didn't really ever hurt skids I think that would be mechanic if it was true but whatever
The Eden statues are dead skids and you do give light to them for them to be reborn (and you might give it to yourself or something)
Vault is in the mountain it goes after gw temple they are sorta connected

[brittle smelt]

Okie, thanks

[high pawn]

The Dark Plants at the eye of Eden now drain light after the latest update, but none of the other locations have that effect so it seems to be a side effect of Eden’s corruption/darkstone rather than a “normal” trait of the plants

[versed mirage]

Now I’m wondering if spirits are projected by the vault lanterns…

[narrow marsh]

@sharp shore

[versed mirage]

It makes a weird amount of sense

[sour sphinx]

Like the ones on the first quest from the Season of Nine Colored Deer?

[fossil arrow]

I don't know if someone has say this but i have theory if elder vault want us to remake dusk memory (especially ch 3 memory one). Surely we know bad ending is unavoidable but elder vault want us to remove the sad memory of dusk

As you can see in quest 5 memories, vault elder using our experience as dusk memory instead the movie one. Dusk managed bringing their manatee to the temple without getting caught by the guard

[versed mirage]

It could also be there were more memories we didn’t see in the film

Or actually wait I’m dumb

Nevermind

[dawn wharf]

so guys, how're we feeling about the season overall??

[sour sphinx]

You're good 👍😁 It could be. People have said that the timeline for the quests are going towards the episodes

[dawn wharf]

I loved it but my only question is why Lamed would put the lantern in the cinema

interesting choice there

[sour sphinx]

I like it! I always like stories like that. I feel like Lamed knew we were emotionally and mentally in pain at the end because of what happened. But I'm happy the characters will be with us while they're resting in peace

[versed mirage]

The fact we don’t find the kid at the end of the final quest, makes me think even more it’s the steward

[gilded socket]

So how do we pull our manatee friend into aviary-

In all seriousness yeah quest 5 is the biggest contradiction to the film. The presence of our manatee companion is the biggest contradiction to the film.

[sharp shore]

So i just finished the final quest

She just slapped me in the face 4 times and i saw speedran memories of the past few quests

Huh…

[sharp shore]

Yes

At the end i heard manatee sounds and i got even more confused

Plus i thought VE would do something a little more than slapping us in the face but i would say it was a bittersweet quest

[silk inlet]

our manatee is a different one from in the movie, it doesn't have an injured flipper. in quests the dusk's manatee still died, you can see it in the 3rd quest and also in the free roam there is a shrine/grave for it at the same spot.
but personally I think the quests are just like, a magic tree house kind of thing. and we're not actually IN the past, just experiencing an interactive memory of it
but then also it still doesn't line up the dusk ember having memory in the 5th quest of bringing a different manatee to the temple as far as I remember there's not parts in the episodes where you could say it happened between the scenes shown. if it makes sense
my best guess is that the vault elder has Made a new memory out of our experiences in the lantern ? but I'm not sure how that would work exactly or Why she would do that so I'm not totally set on the idea

[muted salmon]

honestly, probably more like they capture part of the spirit's residual light via others' memories to form them back to one so they can properly move on

there is a very old superstition that cameras and paintings capture part of your soul, and that's why some egyptian depictions of humans are weird

there is also that other thing with ghosts especially in fnaf where if you show the ghost their body, they remember who they were and they can move on

we, skykids, are the ferrymen of the ancestors by letting them feel the light and remember their last moments, and the ancestors help us in return

[real latch]

Their memories are for sure

I guess that child is the one anchestor of us who started the sharing light tradition and was saved by the elders desperate struggle and his four friends(of one reminds me of the Wasteland elder tbh with the shield 🛡️ stuff there and the big spear).

Also got his heart mend by the kindness of the vault elder, who allowed him to see memories are precious to everyone of us, besides saving some of the children of Light then, when wastelands culture fell.

[sharp shore]

I realized what the manatee sounds were for

Oughhhhhh my heart

[real latch]

Adorable isn’t it?

Keep going back to pat the baby since i found that

[sharp shore]

Oh yes ive spoken about this before thanks for letting me know @/thetomte

I can redirect you to this theory i had #lore-discussion-spoilers message

spirit projections to me seemed like the work of darkstone as well, more like an unknown property that it can essentially have memories frozen in time to be relived

Thats also my rational for the season of shattering

[versed mirage]

It explains a lot of how they work. And why they can seemingly be in multiple places at once.

[sharp shore]

Fragments of nuclear fallout probably landed those husks we can relive

Though now they changed the spirit reliving to just the ghosts in dark plants so uhh

So this quest probably reinforced what i thought

I still thought it was slightly extremely funny the way i got slapped repeatedly but um yeah

[tacit pilot]

Did the child stint on candles when the manatee was dying and regret it later so she handed her candles out to everyone in the bunker?

[real latch]

No it was dying anyways so whatever holding back might’ve been pointless when others can have a little solace from a small candle 🕯️

So i guess that kid did the right thing and used the candles she made for still living ones.

[humble spruce]

Y’all whose tomb is that in front of the resourceful recluse spirit ?? I saw people saying it was manatee’s?

[winged bison]

Another memory that doesn't add up is the 3rd quest and episode 3/4. We know what Dusk Ember did in episode 3 from trying to sneak their manatee GW temple, to the manatee dying, to them walking back with everything destroyed, to picking up the darkstone, then to being in vault in episode 4. While quest 3 is us helping Stern Shepherd and bringing a manatee into GW temple

[silk inlet]

that's exactly what I was referring to about it not lining up with the 5th quest the quests themselves where we're in the past, I feel like don't matter as much, if it is just a magic tree house situation. we're not playing as dusk ember. but if the 5th quest memories is supposed to be dusk ember, it doesn't make sense to me yet

[winged bison]

Yeah, seeing Dusk Ember in the memories is what has really made things super messy hahaha

[silk inlet]

I wonder if it's sort of like..a connection thing. like maybe it's not the dusk ember in the memories, but when we do the actions in the quests it's recorded as dusk ember, because 1: we don't exist in the past/in the spirits memories and 2: we are a sky kid I think it might be important the focus on these being the other spirits memories, not the dusk ember's. so maybe it's possible we created memories for them for the purpose of freeing the spirits, and we show up as/like dusk ember in those(?) this is probably too convoluted to be the truth but I'm just throwing ideas at the wall rn lol

[trail drum]

Go to sleeeeeeep
Go to sleeeeeeep

Literally the first thing I think when she did that

[muted salmon]

TGC really didn't have to first person the elder action tbf

[wintry matrix]

It was side view in beta but it did not really work with chibies so they changed it.

[muted salmon]

I would prefer Lamed just putting a hand above a chibi than my hat clipping through my eyes

[wintry matrix]

Wasnt that always a thing? We have crystal in our masks simmilar to Lamed too.

[wintry matrix]

There is also possibility that they are (willingly) tucked in the memories of their own realms, reliving them over and over to learn more about what went wrong and what could they do differently. Or just for nostalgia. We dont have concrete evidence the Lamed in the Last City temple is past Lamed or current Lamed reliving the memory and just “playing the role” kinda like we did for whole season.

[celest birch]

I was about to ask this: given how we see Lamed freely walk around the Vault´s entrance in Quest 5, does this mean that waking them up allows them to be able to walk around their own designated realms? 👀

[wintry matrix]

Im... not sure if I understand your question?

We gave them their light back when visiting them in Void which allowed them to meet us on Vault summit and later on orbit. That assumes they can to some degree walk around as they please.

[celest birch]

You did answer it nicely still, which does mean that there´s a chance they would be one of the best grief counselors Skykids could have, as their realm does have Land of Tears and Starlight Desert. 🥺

Even if when it comes to Quest 5, I more understood it that we aren´t setting any spirits free this time; we´re setting ourselves free by letting memories of them we got via previous quests go, as the 4 look like memories of themselves when they stand by our side after shelving Vault Elder´s Lantern that is storing them. And I admit, I bloody ugly-cried.

There was no need of us to set their spirits free, since they were already at rest; all we had to do is to make sure their memories are both saved and are altered to be the ones of solace and peace.

As in Chapters, we did see them be somewhat distraught and worried, which does mean only one thing if you ask me.

Quests were never about Dusk Ember. They were about them.

[frank cedar]

Is there a specific meaning to the purple and gold colors of the last quest? They’re the ult capes default too

[wintry matrix]

Wdym?

[frank cedar]

The vault elder has a lot of purple on their design I don’t think we usually see, the memory trails are purple when usually they’re only blue or gold, and the ultimate cape has the magenta-purple background for its underside. It’s not a color we usually see, and when we do I think it’s more incidental but I feel like it holds some significance here

[celest birch]

I´d say in this case, it´s a clear indication of wisdom and magic, yet at the same time it could also be seen as the color of spirituality, sadness and grief.

[wintry matrix]

You can find purple in vault archives. Purple is royal color and color of wisdom. Fitting for Vault elder. Seasonal spirits have purple star.

Past seasonal spirits before reliving their memory glow pinkish purple.

[frank cedar]

I also can’t help but think they were there when everything collapsed fully, and vault, the seasonal area, and dark stone are all blue, while Eden and the corruption are crimson. Violet is between them

[celest birch]

And yes, despite everything we do for the ones whose memories we see, there´s still one more soul that isn´t at peace.

Caring Companion. The manatee. 😔🥺

[frank cedar]

Wdym, they’re on my bed right at my feet right now

[celest birch]

Which answers why is the Lantern calling us with its cries. It´s missing us as much as any pet does when their beloved people are away and the only way we can soothe it is to be there for it. To return back to Land of Distant Past, the happier times, to play with it and give it rubs.

As long as we´re not there for it, it will miss us and call for us to return.

We can only hope that maybe in time, we´ll be allowed to play with it in the present as well (with it being an actual spirit) without needing to use a STAR feature of the irl manatee plush for this even if it´s very unlikely. 😔

[wintry matrix]

Maybe we will get manta companion during part 2 or maybe “our” manta “companion” that follows us through realms will play some role in Part 2, considering how Alef and matas are tied.

It would be nice homage to acknowledge that youngling, it even waits for us at rebirth gate.

[frank cedar]

Wait, they do? I had no idea

[celest birch]

I know that hope is very much in vain, but it´s still there and same goes for Toymaker, Recluse, Shepherd and Sentry as well; really hoping that later down the line, they´ll choose to visit us in present as well even before becoming TSes.

[wintry matrix]

They take interest in you in prairie villages, follow you though forest (even backtrack when you backtrack), race with you in valley (always waits at the final stretch of both colliseum races to fly alongside you), sacrifice to krill to buy you time (even flies away from you if you come closer so you wont get hit by krill too), you can revive young spirit manta from the bones in vault and on Orbit it circles between you and rebirth gate.

Prairie one is easy to miss, you can see the manta following the darkness plants covered towers but they move to different one once the candles at the bottom of that tower are lit up.

And at the end of villages the little manta flies above the prairie temple with big manta.

[frank cedar]

Ooh, I thought you meant the manatee itself. Which would also be adorable. I’ve noticed the mantas, but had considered them separate from manatees, maybe as a fools turn

[wintry matrix]

No Im talking about mantas the whole time.

[celest birch]

It is about mantas indeed. Poor people that watch others misspell them as "manatees" and vice-versa.

[celest birch]

Let it be so because that would be amazing! 🤞

Also yes, now I can totally imagine Lamed taking us to Starlight Desert in order to help us process grief for these spirits further, potentially quoting the Little Prince as they sit with us in a quiet meditation beneath the stars.

"Can you hear them?"

"They´ll all be your friends."

[real latch]

Yes and the Two embers are the manatee and the child as by looking at the seasons necklace. So those 4 were the 4 important friends that the Kid and the manatee made, that made them who they are.

[wintry matrix]

Manatee is not ember. The second ember is Dawn ember. Officially confirmed by Jenova Chen.

[real latch]

Ohh i see

[celest birch]

More like 4 people that mattered the most to Dusk Ember.

Toymaker: caretaker, potentially even their true parent.
Recluse: surrogate parent as well as assistant.
Shepherd: the person that Dusk Ember stole the ill manatee from, who ultimately allowed Dusk Ember to keep it as a pet/companion.
Sentry: worried guard that did try to help them, but couldn´t due to their distraught state, instead getting them to Vault Elder.

[wintry matrix]

Makes me wonder if we get “alternative” version of Stargazer and maybe Voyager too for Part 2, kinda like we saw in Radiance and Blue Bird. Those two dont offer much now yet they are important to Alef, or atleast Stargazer is.

Other spirits we might see in Part 2 is the acolyte with water symbol brooch, the same one that is on boat and later waves on Alef when he goes to trials.

And then maybe the guy (no idea what are those people called in english) in charge of the caravan, the one driving Alef around the realms.

[real latch]

But it’s great we finally get to find out what happened then

[celest birch]

It´s actually confirmed that it´s Dawn and Dusk Embers?? Wow!

[muted salmon]

do you ever wonder if the TE Part 2 version of that symbol will just be the same but flipped colors?

[celest birch]

I´d say flipped heads.

[real latch]

I saw a video of dawn ember then a while ago without knowing what it was then hehe

[muted salmon]

always remember, dawn will become bald, and dusk will get shoes

[wintry matrix]

My personal guesses for the Part 2 spirits are those. Last picture either the teacher or one of the kids.

I personally hope its the kids because I want that hoodie tunic so bad.

[muted salmon]

I think the teacher also has that hoodie tunic

[wintry matrix]

Mmm looks dressed same as the acolyte to me imo.

The kids have short wide sleeves with stripes while the teacher has long and closed up sleeves without stripes.

[upper mortar]

The real reason why the king is harvesting the Light creatures is because he's gonna use the energy to ||seal the Honmoon. He's actually a Demon Hunter and was gonna sing his heart out to save the last city ||

[celest birch]

Oh, just so you all know, the reason why do we see a memorial to Dusk Ember´s manatee as well as its resting spirit in Land of Distant Past?

Because Dusk Ember already gave it peace in the movie.

There was nothing left to recover for us, as its memory was already stored in a different Lantern, thus the memorial and the brief spirit-visual.

[wintry matrix]

The same ritual.

She does simmilar thing in the cutscene as the ancestor does in trailer.

[upper mortar]

Idk why but this reminds me of that "Absolute Cinema" pose

[muted salmon]

it seems to be a drawing of light ritual

[wintry matrix]

Drawing?

[muted salmon]

the term when you're pulling something out, not the term for art in paper

[winged bison]

it'll be interesting to see how the seasonal spirits works for part 2 because if it does tackle Dawn Ember's journey throughout the kingdom's timeline to shattering, I can imagine each seasonal spirit will take place in each stage of the kingdom's timeline who has an significant interaction with Dawn Ember
that took ages to word correctly, English is not having it today

[brittle smelt]

Who the honk is dawn ember

[wintry matrix]

Dawn ember is the King. #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[wintry matrix]

Important addition to this is that in chinese, Dusk ember is girl and Dawn ember is boy and "the boy becomes the King".

[regal pagoda]

Guys is the dusk ember hopeful steward?

[brittle smelt]

Pretty much yea

[wintry matrix]

Not officially confirmed but last quest heavily suggest that.

[regal pagoda]

Unless I misread it the last quest said "revive your memories alongside vault elder no?"
And the memories were practically everything we did throughout the quest. So was that our skykid before the diamond in eden destroyed everything?

[muted salmon]

that was us in the place of the Dusk Ember

[regal pagoda]

Like was it our previous life, and if it is and they're infact the hopeful steward too-
Is the spirit from our previous life guiding us so we rebuild the kingdom??

[regal pagoda]

Yea it just made me question if we are the dusk ember 😭

[copper saffron]

NAHHH NEW QUEST

[wintry matrix]

Sky kids are new race that came out after shattering.

Stewards and King are theorized to be first "sky kids" but not in a form as we know them, more like prototype, like elders are.

[celest birch]

Given what others said, I´d say we´re still ourselves, but the memories show Dusk Ember in our place because this is how the seasonal spirits remember us as.

[wintry matrix]

Because we did not exist in the past on first place.

[celest birch]

Yea. Even though I wouldn´t be surprised if their memory-images see us as we truly are when they´re standing beside us as we put the Lantern on its shelf tho.

[sharp shore]

Yes

In the quest it looked way less graceful

[patent pasture]

Man this last quest squashed my Stewie is the two embers protag theory oh well

[wintry matrix]

Nice reference to our heart flame core.

[brittle smelt]

When did you realize the vault elder lantern is the lantern depicted in the constellation

[wintry matrix]

You dont have to post this message here twice. Every elder constellation portrays something related to them.

[celest birch]

You know, seeing what happened to Recluse here kinda gives me hope that later, we´ll get to see the 4 as actual spirits. That is quite literally a spirit texture. 🥺

[brittle smelt]

Oh

[wintry matrix]

Visual bug.

[celest birch]

Meknows. 🤭🤭 Since I had that one happen in other instances as well, like in AURORA quest where one of the NPCs would be buggy like that.

[narrow marsh]

A strange visual bug indeed
(Also Luca I was standing next to you in-game a second ago)

[celest birch]

Only that in this case, I´m dang glad it happened, since it does show the texture beneath the "memory overlay" one.

Still very much amazing that thanks to this season we get to actually interact with the very thing the constellation is based on; maybe that´s why the 1st Ult reward is a literal Vault constellation halo?

[wintry matrix]

And of course we will meet them, they have this texture because they will eventually return as travelling spirits and their official art portrays them as spirits.

[wintry matrix]

Oh yeah thats possible, Im afk a lot. Do you need daily?

[celest birch]

I do hope so, especially if it´s sooner than 2+ years.

And yes, this visual bug does make it look as if Recluse actually manifested beside me and not just their memory, which is 🥺💕

[wintry matrix]

I feel like this is not the last time we gonna see Recluse, he is the only "spirit" from those four who looks and waves at you before you even interact. Other three move only after interacting and wont look at you even after that.

Plus there is one "younger recluse" looking ancestor in dawn part trailer.

Recluse also seems to be one of last people to remember how to make candles.

[sharp shore]

Then we could guess how long ago part 2 is before part 1

Which then could also give into how much Resh grew/how long it took

[narrow marsh]

I’m okay! I was just stopping by to say hi, but I also thought there was a fifth episode and I don’t know where it is

[sharp shore]

Hello tom nice to see you

[narrow marsh]

He didn’t even look at me and he waved at you excitedly?

[sharp shore]

Im going crazy thinking about part 2

Like yeah being slapped in the face by a bene gesserit and reliving bittersweet memories is fine but i also wanna see how things turned heinous fast

[celest birch]

Imagine that actually happens after 2 years (at least), like the visual bug was a foreshadowing.

[wintry matrix]

He waves at me everytime I pass by

[sharp shore]

I think I remember toymaker waved at me but idk if they really do

Ill probably go see when i do my dailies and play with the manatee there lol

[wintry matrix]

ignore wing count, i should be at 197 but im lazy

[narrow marsh]

Your videos never play for me 😞 I’ll just watch them on YouTube

[vapid drift]

Can we talk about how gorgeous Lamed is like omg

And there's even cracks in her mask from the shattering

[wintry matrix]

try restarting discord, it is fault on discord end

[celest birch]

Curiosities in Toymaker´s tent.

[wintry matrix]

Lamed cutscene.

My skid was in the way, will try to do it again on new hour. You have to enter exactly when the new hour starts.

Also after leaving the temple she just keeps walking towards the desert and then poofs into thin air

[wintry matrix]

There is one more like that in temple but blue.

[celest birch]

You mean inside this building (medical bay/medbay)?

Wow. And this just makes the present-version of it so much more tragic.

Such nice area of healing and calmness ... only to then host the most ignored Darkness Tree in all of Golden Wasteland (so not counting the Graveyard one). 😭

[wintry matrix]

No the lost temple.

[celest birch]

Oh! Better. :D Almost seems like Dusk Ember then built one of their own, almost.

[dawn wharf]

wait, how?? i thought we always knew that dusk ember is stewie??

[patent pasture]

It’s more so they die in the last city, as seen by the graves in the last quest… how do they even get to aviary where we end up finding them?

[dawn wharf]

ah.... interesting. I wouldn't say this disproves them of being the same person, just that something happened with their husk that we don't know about. I'd assume when they died, their soul got flung through the clouds and landed there on another side of the world, like we do when we fall from orbit

[wintry matrix]

4 graves for 4 seasonal spirits. Stew is fifth one.

I have whole document about how Dusk could logically end up in aviary and become Steward, I just need to rewrite some parts because of querst 5 and health did not allow me to properly sit and do it yet.

[patent pasture]

WAIT IM SO DUMBBB
This is what i get for doing the quest right after i woke up

[dawn wharf]

hey its alright nothing to worry about

cause we see stewie going into eden at the end of the film giving out candles, i think its safe to assume they got picked up and swept off when they died there

[dawn wharf]

oh and i like your profile btw!!

[patent pasture]

Awe thank you!
Also yeah true the spirits could’ve been moved around

[dawn wharf]

yeah, i'd wanna say we've seen that happen with a few other spirits, but i can't put my finger on which ones, exactly (maybe the belonging spirits?? boogie kid in particular seems to be somewhere they shouldn't)

pov: you're boogie kid

[dawn lintel]

I got beaned NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Is there a way to avoid the word limit (I think that's what happened)? Got a text wall I wanna show (hoping that's ok)

Wait was it the thing about the dead Manta?

[celest birch]

Manta or manatee?

[dawn lintel]

Ok so,
the first image:
do you think it's a dead, young Manta or a plushie (definitely a sane question) and if not a plush (and if it is why is it there if everyone is holding onto their belongings for dear life as it's all they have left) then who did that Manta belong to, (I don't remember seeing a spirit with any Mantas anywhere, the closest match being the bird owner in the concept art that hasn't made an appearance yet and probably won't end of) and why was it left there?

Second and third image (less depressing):
Ok so are those fried cabbages ?? Made like dumplings but with leaves????

Fourth image: a charity fighting the famine? They give you free bread and so does the tea vender (neither ask for a token), which doesn't make a lot of sense given that these people have so little (even the fruit vendors don't try to do anything to stop you taking their food when you steal it). makes me think that they have plenty of food (it's merely rude to take any for nothing), just very little light. But then why the tokens (could just be a polite gesture if they'll give you food anyways)

Fifth image: dye station, WHICH WOULD REQUIRE DYED LIGHT TO FUNCTION . Maybe the spirits only resorted to using coloured light when (there was plenty of it once they awoke) they no longer had a physical form but used actual dye beforehand. This is also interesting BCS of the culture behind it; The Elders sporting greys, white and blue marking their status as Elder (only after death if Lamed wearing purple in TTE is anything to go by but Resh pokes a giant hole in that as he wears the grey tones while alive) (Lamed sporting purple signifying wisdom or maybe affiliation with the single royal (Alef/Resh)?) And the spirits seeking independence via colour (also it's probably trendy).

Just some thoughts! (There's more don't worry, but I won't put them here maybe don't wanna flood this place with a disjointed text wall)

.
Hey it worked! Must've been me being to coarse ABT the dead Manta
.

The images to go with the original text wall

[celest birch]

1: That manta plush might´ve belonged to a kid that died before managing to reach the Temple. 😔

2 + 3: These can pass as dumplings wrapped in leaf to keep them fresh, kind of like how banana leaves are used to wrap food up in some cultures.

4: They´re giving us these things for free out of gratitude if you ask me, given that that is the version of Land Of Distant Past after the quest-events; if we go with the theory of "People see us as Dusk Ember", it adds up by including that one scene from the movie where Dusk Ember traded their manatee toy for a belt. On the other hand, this could also be the version of Land Of Distant Past before light-shortage was happening (aka before Quest 1). Before Darkness started to spread, given how we can actually win wax through 3 different activities; do mind that since this is supposed to be a preserved memory of the place, anachronisms are bound to happen like Caring Companion being an adult manatee and Dusk Ember´s manatee being gone.

5: Definitely more likely that dyes used here are the same dyes ancient cultures of our time used as well, which isn´t Colored Light-based.

[wintry matrix]

First image is a toy. You get the same toy but bigger after scanning star pin from the big manta plush.

Second image is dim sum.

Fourth image is bread.

Last one is dye stall. You can get dyes from fruits and veggies and also some bugs. No need of light for that. Light might just be faster, more effective or create brighter colors. If you look at ancestors clothing, they wear mostly colors you can get from various food and herbs.

[dawn lintel]

Oooh forgot that dumplings got wrapped like that, thanks!

Still not too sure about it being a plush given the pink tinge, but it would make the most sense as I don't think that Megabird would birth it in such a way it would still be reddish after birth (sorry for the image)

[dawn lintel]

OOOOOHHHH OK, idk much about what you can get from STAR pins so that's helpful thanks!

[wintry matrix]

Edited my message once more to include info about last image.

[dawn lintel]

Thanks!

[celest birch]

Thanks, Luca, and that´s exactly why I said that 1st image shows a manta plush: it´s based of big manta plush STAR-feature. :) Besides, it might be pinkish due to lighting as well. :) Videogame lighting is pretty dang tricky.

[wintry matrix]

Oh yeah sorry Im answering from phone rn (had to go afk), didnt see your message

[celest birch]

Is ok.

[dawn lintel]

Yeah you're right ABT the lighting, I think I've just got a dark mind
Probably a plushie

[wintry matrix]

I have zoomed in photo of it somewhere, it is indeed a plushie, I will be soon back to PC to find it.

There are couple more toys laying around (not only) in the temple during fourth quest.

[celest birch]

So great to see when lore-loving brains think exactly the same.

[wintry matrix]

Thats the autism telepathy

[dawn lintel]

Wait where did the fruits come from-

And whose Manta is that??

If this is the last city, with no farms (that we see) then how are there what look like potatoes for sale?????? Also how do plants work if they're not made of light? HOW DOES THAT AFFECT MEGABIRD'S CREATING EVERYTHING
So did they draw light from trees?

Are they fruit or something else then?

[celest birch]

That is the ghost of Dusk Ember´s manatee.

[wintry matrix]

Thats the spirit of Dusk Ember manatee.

Also oh, you are really loremoth /lh

[celest birch]

And that´s what I was telling you when I mentioned "memory anachronisms". Even though in this case, this looks like produce one would see most likely imported from other realms before Darkness claimed them. City marketplaces thrive on importing goods from all over the realm/s after all; I know because my town does have a marketplace. :)

[wintry matrix]

For this past hour and half I gave Stewie another trauma from having to stare at me like this, thinking I might be dead

Its literally the "Hey, are you ok-" look

[celest birch]

Please give them a hug for literally passing out in front of them due to lore-overdose. 🥺🤭

[wintry matrix]

I hug them every day, dont worry

[dawn lintel]

Actually I'm not, that's my alt that will become my main because it's*✨complicated*✨

[wintry matrix]

More than loredose it is whatever was in that 10 hours fast recharge spell from Lamed lol

She gives it to you after the Sanctuary cutscene.

[dawn lintel]

OH YEAH IT USED TO BE THAT SMALL
(brain not braining )

Sorry for me forgetting so much and making things akward

[celest birch]

You bloody fortunate one for having that cape, seriously! I still struggle to get it, will probs get it after the next week as long as I farm this game harder than I grinded Shadow of War. 😅

[wintry matrix]

I mean i can bring you there right now if you want-

She gives spell to everyone who is in the temple at that moment, cape or not.

[dawn lintel]

Yeah but "last city" implies that by this point everyone was already dead (or am I being ""forgetful"" again)

[celest birch]

Is ok, I´m done for today. Thanks still. I shall work for my own cape, so that I feel like I´m deserving to witness that crazy magic.

[wintry matrix]

Last city is name given to that city by TGC in the movie narration. However we see the valley trumpeters in chapter 2 and 4, so valley is still standing.

[dawn lintel]

Never saw that sorry.
Also Valley is way too cold to produce fruit of any kind, assuming the snow is natural

[celest birch]

Bombshell: the belly-rub expression we´re able to give to Caring Companion is the same one we see Scarred Sentry do in their memory. 🥺

[dawn lintel]

I say again, THAT WAS MY ALT THAT I MADE 2 WEEKS AGO
I'm not a moth

[celest birch]

I do need to point out the little farm-attempt we can see at Forgotten Ark tho; wouldn´t surprise me if those little outskirt farms are from where they got their produce even if it´s also possible that it did came from other realms through Valley because given the latter´s location, it´s literally a giant freezer in a realm-form.

[dawn lintel]

True

[wintry matrix]

Its actually this scene-

[dawn lintel]

Different in the memory though isn't it?

[celest birch]

Exactly; I was referring to the memory because in this absolutely adorable scene, we can see Caring Companion face sideways instead of upside down, which the memory shows.

Urgh, still cannot get off the notion that this is what ultimately proves this GOAT-spirit´s innocence when it comes to harvesting manatee light. They had absolutely nothing to do with any of these inhuman actions. 🥺🥺

Also, if our Skykids did learn the belly-rub from them as well ... omg

[dawn lintel]

True given we don't know what realms are dead by this point, but wasteland is the ONLY realm where we see farms of any kind which is strange. (Abnormal soil/sand didn't grow over them there?)
But to have that amount of fruit and giving it away freely, in such a small city where we see no farms in the overhead view is odd.

And still, the significance of "last city" means that as much as some parts of valley may be safe (still don't remember seeing the trumpets but they may have been taking refuge?) it still isn't possible to actually use any of the ice found there.

Not saying anything about what other realms may also be standing as it's very possible that prairie, forest, and maybe isle before the grass died, all have grown over farms.

[wintry matrix]

What do you mean upside down? I see them in same pose as in quest.

[celest birch]

Oh, thanks for showing in more detail, Luca. Always thought the manatee was upside down; it does make me think that this means that Caring Companion is definitely trusting us more than Sentry, as it does allow us to rub their belly, which is generally a sign of total trust, at least in dogs and cats.

Hand posing is definitely the same nonetheless, which is just nitpicking by this point because be it one or the other, it´s ADORABLE! 🥺

[celest birch]

Aside from what i said above, it´s nonetheless absolutely awesome (and adorable) that Sentry´s spirit chose us Skykids to witness this memory as well, like it´s a cherished one by them. They really have a heart of gold.

[wintry matrix]

I was running around with the camera during whole quest while Lamed was watching me like "Just relive that honking memory already oh my Megabird-"

[celest birch]

Thus I said farming attempt. :) I wouldn´t be surprised if that pool of goo-water beside it used to be water that would be used for irrigation, kind of like in some ancient times.
It´s not necessarily free for the rest of the citizens tho, only for us. 😅😅

As for other realms, that is WAFO-territory alright, especially if we do see Isle of the past in Part 2.

[wintry matrix]

I mean it was scared of sentry until the explosion happened, then the instinct kicked in to go closer I wouldnt be trustign either if I witnessed a simmilar looking men slaughter my friends.

[celest birch]

Worth it! 🥺 And speaking of memory-shots ...

[celest birch]

True that and especially given Quest 3 as well; definitely went to Sentry more due to needing protection than actually wishing it, which is totally understandable as well as a GREAT parallel to what we see Dusk Ember do in the animated movie when being in a similar situation (albeit having their wrist be held by them).

I do love how does their spirit remember that instance they snarled in their PTSD-induced terror´s face and just go to town on Crabs together with us Dusk Ember. 😈🤭 And yes, visual bug on one of the memory-guards when they (Shepherd in this case) came to distract them, which ultimately happened on Recluse, but well, mostly took that one because Wounded Warrior.

[wintry matrix]

I didnt have any visual bugs but I was grinning on the group visit how they were hanging around like "Yeah normal day, ignore this giant blue shrimp behind us."

[celest birch]

They probs knew it was a memory or something. Do still love how there´s a chance Wounded Warrior might do either level 1 or level 3 respect towards your direction and if you happen to be in the way of Shapherd´s spirit ... 😆 respecting the Shepherd much?

[wintry matrix]

Also was goofing around with the wobbly legs effect on Stew and shepherd but it looks less funny on photos than it was during quest when actually moving

Lamed is standing there like "I need to have a talk with Moments guide after this."

[celest birch]

OMG Dusk Ember´s legs look like that of a deer! 🤣😆 And yes ... yes, you need to, Lamed, bless your elder-heart (TOTALLY won´t become everyone´s favorite Elder after witnessing that + how they´re like in the animated movie). Probs should really need to swap that grumpy-looking mask, shouldn´t you?

[wintry matrix]

She was my favorite elder before TTE too because all the fanarts with her and skids are so cute and sweet

I think her mask is supposed to look like position of eyes when reading something, she is scholar after all (fandom calls her Librarian in japanese iirc)

[celest birch]

While when it comes to Elder shots, I´d say this one is my fav because they look like they´re mourning themselves even if it´s a respect-expression.

[celest birch]

Oh nice; in my case, they´re firmly in second place after Tsadi, even if after this, they´re definitely justified to be a new fav. 🥺😅 Yea, I can both see and believe it. Bless their soul nonetheless, especially seeing how they entrust us to shelf their personal Lantern.

One-time cutscene we get once we return back to Land Of Distant Past through the shelved Lantern. 🥺🥺 Caring Companion might not show much, but it´s clearly happy that we´ve returned.

"It´s hard to say farewell
To something you hold dear
But goodbye isn´t forever
As long as we´re here!"

[lilac verge]

Hi, here, I have quick question. About this lovely things called "Scarecrow everyone and the guard consider you a warcrime perpetrator"

Why is that ? Anything lore related or just quirky mechanics Sky implement?

[wintry matrix]

Are you refering to sentries putting you "to jail" for being public nuisance in Last City?

[lilac verge]

Yeah

[celest birch]

Timeout, essentially.

Also, it´s trying to scare the sentries themselves, not everyone, from what I know.

[restive locust]

Whoa hi lorechat I just finished the fifth quest AND THERE’S A MEMORIAL FOR THE MANATEE IN THE MARKETPLACE

The villagers made one for them I’m gonna cry

[wanton turtle]

Basically baby jail

[wintry matrix]

It was likely Dusk ember who did it.

[celest birch]

I´m still impressed that even inside shelved Lantern´s Land Lost In Time one is still able to be jailed, honestly.

[wintry matrix]

she put that in just for lols

[celest birch]

More like she did all to capture everything possible from that point in time, which is why I BET that in the end, that Lantern contains a combo of memories from the 4 seasonal spirits, herself and us.

Even capital punishment methods.

[wintry matrix]

Lamed: What if there were skid sized cages, massive ball, two seasonal guides hidden behind fence and everything was turning into sand? Yeah, sounds good to me... oh yeah cant forget dancing tents!

[celest birch]

I absolutely bet that the ball and the dancing tents are memories from us Skykids. Same with rock-throwing game, shell game and racing-game.

[wintry matrix]

Nah the other games I can see being normal games of ancestors because those are not that far from what you can see on renfair for example. The only thing out of place is that huge ball.

[celest birch]

I do still love how the populace cheers you on when you do the racing game by essentially running through their potential private properties. ! And fair. :)

Only thing missing is to be chased by sentries like how Dusk Ember was in Chapter 3.

[wintry matrix]

Well whole Valley had regual races going through whole city so some of them may be used to that.

[celest birch]

Those dang Valley citizens!

[trail drum]

Yeah scaring the citizens is like a nope, with the kiddos im sure they think its mischievous, but for the guards "YOUR GOING TO JAIL!"

[trail drum]

Oh yeah if I remember one of the spirits in the citadel did a race around the area when were relieving its memory

Or basically when we do the Aurora quest if I recall

[distant pebble]

Picture Resh having a farm because of PoReshtos Reshtatos PotaReshs

[wintry matrix]

I actually sourced this info from 7 days of Sky :) https://x.com/thatskygame/status/1283925635560161280

[trail drum]

But wait anytime we activate the race for us to slide down to the coliseum, then

Who is even cheering for us?????

[distant pebble]

Bet it is
Surely it is

[wintry matrix]

Echoes of the past.

[sharp shore]

resh is from idaho confirmed

whoops ping

[celest birch]

Military discipline alright.

And now I'm thinking of Oblivion.
"STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM! Nobody breaks the law on my watch!"

[grave laurel]

imagine trying to put a kid in jail and they just fly away from you like ?

[celest birch]

(more like "telepathic watch" in their case, even if I gotta admit that when I first saw the guards, I really thought that devs were inspired by Oblivion and it made me sooooo giddy because Imperial Watch look amazing! And yes, their guards are just as strict, thus yeah; still wasn't jailed even once to this day)

[grave laurel]

shared hallucinations

[celest birch]

As long as said kid wouldn't cower once they whistle for reinforcements, thus falling like a stone in front of them.

[grave laurel]

rip whoever just got beaned

[gusty grail]

ig i cant say half of bad words i was going to say i sneezed on a guard twice and got jailed

[grave laurel]

they can jail you for sneezing??? that’s so funny

[gusty grail]

wait i have a better idea to censor bad words with honks and emojis CAN I DO THAT

[distant pebble]

Sickness is illegal
Makes sense

[celest birch]

Sounds like disrespect to me, like once, I can see it go. Twice tho? ☝️🤭

Them be strict guards alright because Narcissist expressions will get you jailed too.

[distant pebble]

People can triple sneeze on accident

[celest birch]

We do have darkstone sickness spreading around in Last City tho, after 2020 I think we know why would they have such strict laws.

[distant pebble]

Jailing me for being real about myself

[trail drum]

Now that makes it even sadder now......
All those spirits cheering....

[distant pebble]

Not even spirits just thin air

[celest birch]

I've once read a report that at one time during TB (in the past), it was forbidden to spit whenever you'd wish, so ... yeah.

[trail drum]

So thin air is just cheering for us?

Cheering through us through those horns to make it sound like people cheering?

[celest birch]

To them, it's either blind arrogance or tempting fate like "Yea, I DARE you to imprison me!" 🤭🤭

[celest birch]

Actually, it is either spirits or echoes of the past because there's A LOT of spirit reports irl that claim of hearing disembodied voices, which are basically louder versions of EVPs.

[trail drum]

You dont have the ba-
gets jailed

[distant pebble]

Can't believe Stewie was so arrogant

[gusty grail]

i got jailed and immediately after my friend wanted to do as well so he did

[trail drum]

That makes a lot of sense

But sad to think about

[celest birch]

We are Dusk Ember in their eyes, according to their memories, so yea.

[gusty grail]

does this mean we're their height too? bcz why am i short alkdj

[celest birch]

You get shorter in Last City if you were tall/default height???

[gusty grail]

i am default and like everyone is taller except for chibis im even shorter than the kids

[celest birch]

Mhm and yes, I did hear recorded EVPs for an ungodly amount of hours; oh my Lord. 👀 They're certainly there in the Coliseum and races, they just can't or won't manifest.

[celest birch]

Wow. Totally sounds like an Alice in Wonderland effect where you're shorter by making everyone taller. 👀 As a size 11 Skykid, I'm not able to see that change myself, so yea. 😅

[gusty grail]

idk even how to get taller i assume its like an elder mask or smth im the same height as i started no special height mask

[trail drum]

Does sound pretty scary, but remembering that these were once people alive who would watch the races and it was very lively, plus seeing those mantas following us while we race down the hill to the coliseum

[celest birch]

Size 11 - 3rd shortest.

[celest birch]

Imagine you give yourself height spells and other people just become Gulliver giants. 😂😂

[celest birch]

Meknows; I was referring to EVP recordings taken irl.

[celest birch]

Not intentionally towards the direction of authority to my knowledge.

[trail drum]

Ik what you mean, in a good way not sarcastically

[rain frost]

when i went to play the last quest, i had been wearing my f2p hopeful steward hair but once i activated the quest it reset me to the previous hair i'd been wearing.
did anyone else experience this? if its not a glitch it feels significant given that the child in the quest strongly resembled the steward

[trail drum]

Not really, I also wore Steward's hair during the final quest but god Vault Elder is trying to cover my eyes everytime she places her hand on my face

[celest birch]

If it does so, then this totally tells me that the quest considers that hair to be a thing of the past, which is something significant alright. Almost as s failsafe to not mess up the spirit memories. 👀

Since at that point, it's not Dusk Ember that's gathering them, but us modern Skykids, at least according to the quest. Would still think it's a really eerie bug tho; gotta let the devs know.

Like how I got the (old) visual bug of Recluse not being their "memory self", but rather their spirit self instead, which did kinda soothe me, tbh.

[rain frost]

Ohh dang I see, maybe the quest is just a bit buggy overall lol

[celest birch]

Luca would know as well, since they got wobbly-legs on Dusk Ember's and Shepherd's memory.

This is what happens when devs try this thing in a side-view and see just how awkward this looks on different-sized Skykids (sorry!). @trail drum

[trail drum]

Vault Elder unlocking Steward's memories in the movie: normal moment

Vault Elder unlocking memories from us in the final quest: Go to sleeeeeep, go to sleeeeeeeep

[celest birch]

Gotta admit myself tho, their hand is really big alright. 😂 Yes, they don't cover our complete FoV, but still. Kinda funny to see different media trying to depict the same thing.

And personally, I wouldn't mind sleeping in Vault Elder's lap after seeing one ridiculously adorable fanart of a moth doing just that while they pet and rustle their hair. 🥺💞

[trail drum]

has my sketchpad ready in had

Your wish is my command

[celest birch]

Haha, that's on you only. I'm an artist as well. ;)

[trail drum]

Well how about i

Make it even, no wait, I'll keep it a surprise

[celest birch]

Either way, take your sweet time, especially with Eden weekly reset coming. ;)

[wintry matrix]

You should wear a mask- oh wait

[upper mortar]

Not so funny when you're carrying a deadly virus. The pandemic will kill the last city before the darkness does

[grave laurel]

i don’t think the sickness is contagious, we don’t really see people trying to avoid those with it

[celest birch]

Pandemic is the Darkness.

[river veldt]

why does lamed (vault elder) wear a rope around their waist?
this is not explained in any of the episodes/quests

[distant pebble]

It's cool

[delicate trench]

Is the child we see in the last event quest the hopeful steward? It looks a lot like them 👀

[scenic pebble]

it kind of reminds me of irl catholic priests wearing soutanes and something tied around their waist
though the ones that have a rope tied around their waist are usually the lectors if i recall correctly

[wintry matrix]

Lamed is wearing robe inspired by chuba, traditional tibetian dress, with what seems to be heavily styled tabard/rakusu. Those waist belts/sashes are often worn to keep the robe on place and define waist.

[river veldt]

[cunning birch]

I don’t think not, since the Dusk Ember was dead on map 5 and if the Dusk Ember was Hopeful Steward then how can they move out easily and build the village? Just because the Dusk Ember’s hair was look like to Steward (in game), it didn’t mean they were the same person.

[delicate trench]

Oo okay ty !! Idk a whole lot about the lore hehe. Good to know, thank you !! :D

[cunning birch]

No problem:>

[wintry matrix]

What is map 5?

[cunning birch]

Golden Wasteland

I call map 5 for short

[wintry matrix]

And what makes you come to conclusion Dusk Ember died in Wasteland?

[cunning birch]

Because i have seen there’s a small grave here that makes me think the Dusk Ember die

[wintry matrix]

There are 4 equally sized graves for 4 seasonal spirits.

[cunning birch]

I don’t think the small grave in front of three was for the Toymaker, it supposed to be big like the three

[wintry matrix]

It is the same size. Just covered in sand.

[cunning birch]

So how the Dusk Ember know where the toymaker buried so Lamed can burry them?

[wintry matrix]

Your sentence makes zero sense, maybe thry rephrasing it?

[cunning birch]

Oh why?

[cunning birch]

Is this right?

[wintry matrix]

You have the word buried there twice. maybe you wanted to say died and bury instead?

[cunning birch]

Oh maybe i’m make a confused sorry 🥲🥲

[wintry matrix]

Whatever was the meaning of the sentence about burying, Toymaker, even when canonically originally coming from different realm, was citizen of Last City before they died and likely were undergoing treatment in Sanctuary, something that is personally managed and looked over by Lamed. Both Dusk, to whom Toymaker was parental figure and mentor, and Lamed highly likely know when and where Toymaker died.

Part of Vault ground floor is dedicated to graves, it is likely rest place of many Ancestors who died not only during the krill attack and Shattering, but also to the calcification, something Toymaker was also suffering from. We even see acolytes bringing in all the bodies to Vault in chapter 4, seemingly to give them proper burial while some other unclaimed bodies still lay in Wasteland temple during quest 3 and 4.

[cunning birch]

I see

[river veldt]

hi lorechat!
does anyone have the concept art/interview that says flight UG pants are based on ayin's outfit?

[reef fulcrum]

"Kids Game" — line the floor with bodies!
I will never be able to see that room the same again.
More like Tomb of Knowledge.

[wintry matrix]

And now think of how many bodies are propably under all this wasteland sand and water.

[celest saffron]

Do you think when Stewie sees me wear the Toymaker's hair she would mistaken me as her mom?

[ashen berry]

Tomb of memories more likely tbh

[sour sphinx]

I was reading the Sky Wiki and found this

[winged bison]

problem with that is Dusk Ember and the player's journey are very different from one another at the same time: The first 2 quests felt like us playing Dusk Ember filling in the gaps, while quests 3 and 4 separates itself from what we see in Dusk Ember's journey in The Two Embers - trying to intertwine everything together of both show and quest after quest 2 becomes a mess and contradicts stuff. I do like the idea of us doing things Dusk Ember wanted to achieve in show, like sneaking a manatee into the GW temple while they couldn't

[distant pebble]

Also wiki isn't the best source

[sour sphinx]

I usually go to the Wiki to try and understand the seasonal quests better. Sometimes it's confusing but still

[celest birch]

I saw that as well and immediately thought that someone who thinks that Dusk Ember is Hopeful Steward must´ve added this. Sorry, needs source!

[celest birch]

As many as there are stars in the sky in Starlight Desert by this point.

[celest birch]

Mausoleum of Memories.

[wintry matrix]

Wiki is written by fans, it is not canon unless it is properly sourced from official TGC stuff which this one is not.

[sour sphinx]

Now I'm confused 😆 But yeah 👍👍👍

[celest birch]

Not to mention that this type of haircut isn´t strictly limited to Dusk Ember and Hopeful Steward as well; given the conditions in Last City, I wouldn´t be surprised if more children had it as well.

Speaking of the Last City dead, imagine that every time we´re ascending to Orbit as well as being in Orbit, we´re able to see all of them and not even know that they´re them due to being stars.

Each of these visible stars could be a resident of Last City in 2E and we would have no idea!

[sour sphinx]

I'm always fascinated with how the people live in The Last City. Kids play, adults work, Sentrys protect

[fossil belfry]

Did Stewie have The Two Ember's Logo? I think the show version confimed that it was herself orrr??

[celest birch]

[fossil belfry]

What's That For?

[celest birch]

Hopeful Steward came with Season of Revival, thus they´re not having the same logo as 2E.

The closest connection we can make between the 2 is the gold head of 2E´s pendant and even then it´s not proven until devs say so, which I don´t think they will due to how they envision Sky to be a game everyone can make their own interpretation of.

[sour sphinx]

I am pretty convinced that Dusk Ember is Hopeful Stewart. But I know it's not officially canon but still

[celest birch]

Not me, sadly, as then I would really wish to know how would they manage to get from a literal Storm Lock of Wasteland Temple to somewhere as far as Aviary Village is without being destroyed.

[sour sphinx]

Sorry if I've been confused. Everyone is saying it's not Stewart and saying she is. Just trying to figure it out 😆

[celest birch]

The only way they would be able to go is "up" due to Krills blocking the rest of GW and "up" is essentially where ♦️is, thus ... yeah, ground zero of Shattering. They would´ve been eradicated the same way as The King. 👀

Well, now you know that I personally don´t consider the 2 to be one and the same. Need more concrete stuff to see, which I bloody hope we will in future seasons.

[sour sphinx]

[celest birch]

And yes, that thing is about as heated as the old "Purple Guy is Phone Guy" theory from Five Nights at Freddy´s before 3 confirmed it to be debunked.

Without mentioning where would they even get the red candle in the first place, as all candles we do see are white.

[wintry matrix]

Basically do not rely on wiki as official source of information.

[wintry matrix]

If you see hopeful steward with two embers logo next to name, thats visual bug that happens to all guides regardless of season.

[wintry matrix]

We see nowhere that Stew goes to PNR.

[celest birch]

I know, thus I said "literal Storm Lock of Wasteland Temple", since they´re essentially trapped between the Storm (of the future that is Eden) and Lock (GW, which is locked by Darkness and Krills by this point) with nowhere else to go.

[winged bison]

Basically, we do not know by 100% if Dusk Ember is Hopeful Steward because it hasn't been outright said by TGC that it is Hopeful Steward - even if it is strongly implied to be but it is not directly said. Since Dusk Ember has remained in GW and Vault, especially with Part 1 ended off with them in GW Temple, we haven't seen them in Aviary Village to confirm it is them yet

But from what I stand:
Dusk Ember in the show is very most likely Hopeful Steward
While the character we play in the seasonal quests we are most likely not Dusk Ember, as our journey is different to Dusk Ember's after quest 2 - we also have a strong bond with a different manatee - quest 5 has confused a lot of people due to the kid with Hopeful Steward's hair and things not adding up their journey between show and quests

But like Luca said, do not trust the wiki for official source or information

[sour sphinx]

RIP ok I'm Autistic (little bit) I don't understand a lot of things and some words

[winged bison]

I get it is easy to fall for things from reading off wikis thinking it's the definite source as well as struggling to read words at times, it happens