lore-discussion-spoilers

[feral radish]

Also in the new trailer we quite literally see red smoke billowing over the walls.

I wonder if the storm surrounding Eden works differently compared to regular storms. Like an enchanted / cursed sort of thing? Maybe it is a direct manifestation of the diamond's stress after being shattered? Hence why it is red like the diamond itself becomes later.

[wintry matrix]

california wildfire clouds, the shade is not that off, sky one is just paler which can also be 1) dust in the air 2) it is further away/less intense

[eager burrow]

Yep! Thanks, Luca!
It’s also good to note the lighting in the screenshot sent before much too pale to be Krill light. Their lights are MUCH more vivid, and would cast a much deeper shade of red against those clouds if it’s just from their ‘ambient’ lighting, so to speak.

[wintry matrix]

just call me Luca please

[feral radish]

Ah I see what you mean. I also guess you could argue it is red because maybe the fires have dwindled and aren't burning as brightly in the city photo you posted earlier. We can see rain in the picture I posted!

[wintry matrix]

it is raining, rain on fire creates lot of smoke which can dim the lights

[wintry matrix]

i believe this shot is the scene where the krill grabs thst guard like 5 seconds later

its getting quite late and i have to wake up soon, so gn for now

[eager burrow]

G’night! Sleep well! ^v^

[spiral vault]

I think this image would be in like episode 3/4, wheras the initial krill attack would be in episodes 1/2. Hopeful Steward returns to see the once-great city destroyed

[eager burrow]

Also! Had a thought and went to double-check it.

In-game, when we see areas with krills, such as the Graveyard (I think that’s the place?) in the Golden Wasteland, the lighting doesn’t change overall. The krills’ lights are extremely focused, and don’t really spill out beyond their initial cones, which may contribute to this lack of lighting effect.
If their lights were more diffused, these pictures would be far more blue.

The only time I’ve seen the sky unnaturally red in Sky is during Shardfalls.

Perhaps it’s just a game thing?

[tender creek]

Probably no lore related but dark manta

Seen people mention the aeroplane but never this before

[feral radish]

Indeed. Actually now that you mention it I find it odd how the hue is green as opposed to red which would be in line with the corruption we see in Eden. This area sits at the foot of the mountain as we saw in the Two Embers Trailer, so you would expect the red storm to naturally roll down the mountain to this area, but obviously this is not the case as here we see the lighting is a sickly green. I wonder why they chose this design? Is this what happens long after the storm has ravaged everything and dissipated?

[eager burrow]

It’s not the same color as Eden because its reasons for being sick/corrupted are not the same.

Eden/the Eye of Eden houses the localized perpetual storm, the storm of corrupted crystals that pummel literally everything and take light away. Corruption is usually colored red in-game, probably because red is generally used to signify danger and potential harm.
The Wasteland was just destroyed by industry and war and is filled with corrupted runoff in the waters, rendering regrowth near useless. The land is technically sick because of all the pollution permeating everything there; even the sands feel unsafe and unwell. So they use an off-putting shade of green to portray that sickness.

At least, that’s when I look at it through a story/color-theory lens.

[sour sphinx]

It's interesting how in the distance, Eden is pretty peaceful, but by the time we enter it and/or when Shattered Eruptions happens it gets chaotic

I'm curious what everyone's first reaction was to the last and final quest to Shattering was? Mine was " "

[molten dust]

mine was

LORE!!! :D

hey gang what do we think of the pity room. what’s our explanation for the wl there

(~~my very stupid and lighthearted one is that it’s the spirits of moths who never finished the game 😔 ~~)

[pastel brook]

A "moth" is a new player. They have brown wings, they flap around uncontrollably, and they are drawn to flame!

[earnest briar]

It’s Megan looking at our Sky Kids sad over losing all their wings and going “don’t cry little one, here, have a free soul to make you feel better.”

[molten dust]

but where do the souls come from,,,,

[earnest briar]

Momma bird themselves. They’re a conglomerate of all Light, and souls, in the world. They can spare a tiny little bit if it means cheering up their kids and helping us get going again.

[sour sphinx]

Don't we see Mama Bird (Mega Bird) at the end credits? Well probably in the form of stars. Honestly, I don't know if and when we'll physically see the Mega Bird in person. I remember seeing or hearing a theory that Aurora is connected with her

[earnest briar]

And it doesn’t really hurt them to give that bit of Light away, anyways. It will ultimately return to Orbit and the Starry Bird when it’s given to the petrified Sky Kids in Stormlock to free them.

[distant pebble]

it's a timeskip to the next skid going to Eden giving you and your statue their light
it's not just pity
it's a cycle built on pity

[earnest briar]

Not pity. Empathy. Giving up a part of yourself to help someone else.

Besides, the ‘pity room’ we were discussing only happens if you lose all your winged light outside of Stormlock. We’re not talking about the sequence with the light and dark children hugging.

[wintry matrix]

If this is wind paths then thats indeed boeing 737

[wintry matrix]

There was MB model in beta but it was scrapped

It is kinda creepy (also funny enough, the image search results gave me lot of ingame aurora images)

Dont click the links for your own safety

[narrow marsh]

Is that... a hacker?

[wintry matrix]

Already reported them

This is what happens to your account when you click weird links someone sends you - you get cut off from your account and it becomes run by bot

[lime river]

thank you ❤️

[eager burrow]

Oh dang, I hop off to take a quiz and I miss the drama! Yeah, stay safe, y’all!!

[wintry matrix]

It wasnt that dramatic, jist a bunch of links and emoji spam

[eager burrow]

Still. Annoying. :((

[wintry matrix]

What is saddening is that if you checked the persons profile, they have been on this server since 2021, someone just lost their account

[eager burrow]

Nooo :(((

Was their name Ice by any chance? I got a random friend request from someone by that name. Idr interacting with them lol

[pastel brook]

Learn about how you can protect yourself from unsolicited DMs and friend requests, and how to report accounts to moderators of this server: <#general-sky-discussion message>

[wintry matrix]

It was bbbbbbb or something

And honestly that name does not matter, bot can change it into anything

[eager burrow]

Mmm true. Just curious. Thanks! ^v^

[distant pebble]

imagine a mb based toy which is something like that exept it's mb shaped obviously

[wintry matrix]

Honestly days of moonlight (though being more chinese than japanese) or days of bloom (we already got sakura cape though) giving out megabird inspired gohei would be so cool

[tender creek]

BBB- But look! Is manta! Also it was flapping but idk how to record video

[wintry matrix]

A plane!

If it was flapping and out of bounds, it could just be bugged manta, they used to have (and still have in abyss) bugged texture that makes them darker or have “camo” look

[tender creek]

Oh sick, yeah I knew it wasn't the plane so next time I'm in windpaths I'll see if the manta is still there

[wintry matrix]

do you have unfinished wind paths quest by any chance? the lighting changes a lot there during quest and that manta can be from there

[distant pebble]

i want to continue talking about Resh's proportions out of nowhere but i can only say if she's bald we didn't see his baldness yet

[wintry matrix]

leave her scoliosis alone 😭 /j

[distant pebble]

when did i mention scoliosis 😒

[wintry matrix]

the red line 😭

[distant pebble]

mind you it's an arm

[wintry matrix]

i didnt see the head in thumbnails lmao

[distant pebble]

I'll do a close up next time

[wintry matrix]

bro wanted the black mask but bought the baldy by accident, just liek those bald moths you meet every often

and you can assume person like him doesnt get many hearts

[distant pebble]

how does one acomplish such a thing by accident

do all spirits look the same to her 💔

[wintry matrix]

not tht uncommon as you think, even I had to check twice back then before buying + the baldy is 10 hearts cheaper so it is tempting too

[distant pebble]

i'd assume she had old icons tho

[river veldt]

what's up with the void recharinging you
i never understood that

[wintry matrix]

if you stare long enough-

[scenic pebble]

you're touching your reflection
it's alost like there's a second skid in there

[river veldt]

creepy...

[wintry matrix]

-the abyss stares back at you

[wintry matrix]

"there are two wolves embers inside you" ahh meme

[distant pebble]

i always thought that was the liquid on the floor

[feral radish]

Manta concept that got trapped in the paper shredder.. 💔

[wintry matrix]

thats megabird, not manta

[distant pebble]

i think they're joking

[daring sorrel]

The spirits' instruments, a memory turned solid. Yet in the nesting town's musical shop, the player (that carries an instrument) is not called an instrument thief.

Or spirit impersonation, too, by using the masks.

[sour sphinx]

If I had to guess, maybe he's wearing some clothing over his head or something?

Also I'm curious what clothing he's wearing under that cape (or cloak) of his??

[wintry matrix]

the gloves looked leather now question is from where cuz all creatures are white and yellow

did he skin the krill????? for pair of gloves??????

[earnest briar]

That’d be rad as honk, which means new headcanon!

[wintry matrix]

honestly he looks like someone who would go to hot topic for krill skin gloves

[eager burrow]

Most creatures are white with yellow, yes, but you can stain leathers to change their color. Dyes clearly exist in the world, so it’s not out of the question that they could’ve been dyed a different color.

[wintry matrix]

nah, skinned krill sounds way cooler and i think resh would agree

[celest birch]

That does make me wonder from what did they make their stuff like clothes and such.

[wintry matrix]

cotton and viscose comes from plants and their clothes look like they are made out of that, so they propably just grew those

[nimble ingot]

This makes me wonder if there were sky sheep...
Or a sky equivalent to them. Seeing how we rarely see land dwelling animals aside from the magical deer, ambiguous birds and the crabs.

[wintry matrix]

you can make very thick cotton to keep you warm in winter and you can even crochet from upcycled fabrics

[celest birch]

How does a cotton plant look like in Sky tho? Is this what those ball-shaped flowers seen in Prairie are?

[nimble ingot]

The colourful dots in sky's grasslands are often associated with flowers.

I like to think of these as similar to the flowers from another game by TGC.
Flower was a game where you are this unseen force, the wind if you may, and you move to these flowers to make them bloom.
The different colours make up your form as you encounter different types of fictional flowers.

Back to Sky though, it may not be these dots. Though TGC may intend for the player to draw their own conclusion on what the ancestors used.
Which is great, though a shame should they not want to include their own interpretation.

Many fandoms have thrived off making AUs (Alternate Universes) that carried their own canons while the creators were still able to establish their own canon universe.

Sky can be similar in this regard instead of having lore with more holes than cheese cloth.

(please dont tell me the bot sniped that message....)

[wintry matrix]

maybe! viscose is made out of the W word (the good one tzhough) that i get nuked for so it can be pretty much made out of any plant and if we get cacti (dark plants kinda count but you dont want to wear these unless you are resh i guess), you can make plant based leather too

you can make viscose from trees as well

pretty much anything that contains celuose can be made into viscose fabric

no idea what is the fluff we see some spirits wear but it can be just feathers, the passage cape looks more like tiny feathers than fur too

[celest birch]

More holes than cheese cloth ... Why is that so appropriate?!

But else, sounds legit, even if we actually have Flower-like flowers in the game too that doesn´t look like balls of cotton. :)

[wintry matrix]

maybe manatees grow thick fur that they naturally shed in spring, you never know

[celest birch]

... I was thinking the Hermit ...

[wintry matrix]

or hell even if it is maybe nasty, but you can make yarn/clothes from hair too

they propably keep all the clothes they have and make it hereditary(?) to save resources and be more mindful of the nature

[plush haven]

Instead of Elden Lord I wonder if Sky lore will eventually let us become the Eden Lord 😂

[wintry matrix]

hermit clearly has outfit made out of all the wigs we steal from spirits, duh

[earnest briar]

“Foul Tarnished…hey wait a minute, you’re not the Tarnished of no renown. Who the heck are you? ”
“beeps”
“Is Marika Tarnishing children now??? What is she even thinking?”

[pastel brook]

A "moth" is a new player. They have brown wings, they flap around uncontrollably, and they are drawn to flame!

[plush haven]

Just give me my staff and Eden Crown and I'll solo elden ring

at least we can fly over everything xD

[wintry matrix]

omg imagine flexing on resh that you can fly and he cant

"Im better than you!"
"Yeah? can you do this then?"
"... listen here you little-"

[earnest briar]

tell a Sky Kid there’s free AC inside the Erdtree and they’ll already be on their way there to burn it down, no Melina required.

[plush haven]

and aren't sky kids like 3ft by canon? xD

[earnest briar]

Resh can fly though. They do it in the 2 Embers trailer. It’s more like levitating instead of the kind of flight we can do, but it’s still flight regardless.

[wintry matrix]

Resh: No one can conquer the storm in my castle by feet!

megabird: yeah anyway-

[wintry matrix]

thats just floating, not flying

[plush haven]

Pulls out level 4 monk emote

[wintry matrix]

yeah he just relived the memory to get that emote to feel less inferior next to skids

[plush haven]

Radahn has a horse but imagine if we rode a krill into elden ring universe xD

[wintry matrix]

Resh: give me back my helmet you little twerp!

skid casually sitting on highest spire of eden castle: make me

oh i would bully him so bad

[plush haven]

I feel like we'd just take down everything by lighting it on fire by accident xD

[scenic pebble]

hey, how many spots in Sky have circular arches?

[wintry matrix]

aviary has them, im looking at the literally now

[nimble ingot]

counting windows and doors?

[scenic pebble]

sure

ah, right

[wintry matrix]

look at the belltower

and the arches above nest

i think wind paths also use round arches together with bell tower in sanctuary islands

[scenic pebble]

i guess that checks out
the Aviary does kinda stand in opposition to the Sky Kingdom where most of the stuff is angular

[wintry matrix]

if you would like me go document each one, im at your service

[scenic pebble]

sure thing
with two pairs of eyes there's less of a chance to miss something

[earnest briar]

concept art shape theory returns

round bois good, emotionally healthy, connected to the Light and the Light cycle. Pointy bois bad, emotionally ill, disconnected from the Light.

[scenic pebble]

the madlad will actually do it
too bad i have to catch up on sleep

[narrow marsh]

Nothing we're certain about! Just boatloads of theories, as always.
Masks are an easy way for designers to depersonalize or repersonalize characters, which was the intention TGC primarily was going for.

Topic 1: Where do they get them?
Descendants (skykids) are 'born' with masks, but we cannot confidently state that Ancestors are also born with masks. It is currently just as possible that they create all of their masks, and are not 'born' with one on.

Topic 2: What are they made of?
The method Descendants change their masks with are often theorized (but not unanimously agreed on) to be through shapeshifting qualities of our Light. Yet Ancestors seem to be much more grounded and mortal, likely not having their clothes be (theoretically) made of Light as we often posit potentially about skykids.

Observation
It's important to note that skykids appear to be completely 'different species' that were created to mimic the form of Ancestors (or perhaps a particular Ancestor/proto-skid).
Ancestors may have had social/cultural reasons for crafting masks for themselves, while Descendant's masks seem to be deeply woven into their biology/anatomy, due to how they form on our faces from birth. The same goes with the rest of the things we wear.

Observation
Unless Luca or anyone points out a contradiction, I have not seen a single maskless Ancestor depicted in Two Embers trailers so far! Showing the 'real' faces of the Ancestors would be quite the design and narrative challenge, as once they commit to showing the skykid community any one of the Ancestor's faces, there is no going back.

If we were to see an Ancestor (perhaps Alef themself) change their mask, it would possibly be implied off-screen or shown in shadows/silhouette.

Sorry for the late response! 🕯️

[wintry matrix]

TTE?

[sour sphinx]

Ooh now I'm actually curious about changing their masks in Two Embers In-game, without masks, it shows a regular face but the eyes are closed

[wintry matrix]

(i absolutely adore how she looks outside the window the whole time sun is rising by the way)

[narrow marsh]

🇹 he ⬆️ wo 🇪 mbers

[wintry matrix]

oh, i will look into that later but there sem to be only two winged lights in game with masks and those are the hugging ones in elder memory, i still need to properly check it however, the elder memory was the last wl i collected (an im not planning to go to eden sooner than after getting buffs from the spirit group coming with aurora)

they might not be related to two embers at all but they might as well be alef and stewie

[wintry matrix]

rest tommorow, im getting cold chills and need to catch on some sleep as well o/

[wintry matrix]

also passage guide introduction clearly states they like to make masks, so they (the people) do indeed make masks
one of the interviews pinned here states the masks are made out of stone

[earnest briar]

[Masks are an easy way for designers to dehumanize characters, which was the intention TGC primarily was going for.] I feel like ‘dehumanize’ isn’t the right word for it. I still have some screenshots of those developer note thingies from the 5th anniversary event last year, and iirc, one of the notes mentioned that Sky Kids having masks instead of humanlike faces was to allow for more of a common ground between players. No matter how we look irl, or what color our skin is, we can all look at each other and recognize a fellow Sky Kid. And I think that’s really cute.

[pastel brook]

What’s your favorite thing to do at the party?

[narrow marsh]

Great point! Perhaps de-personalize? Or something else 🕯️

[earnest briar]

De-personalizing still has negative connotations to it, so I don’t think that’s an appropriate description either. I’d propose something that falls more along the lines of the “equal/neutral ground” that the masks are meant to encourage and invoke.

[narrow marsh]

De-characterize was my next suggestion, but I'll think about more when I can. 🕯️

[eager burrow]

Perhaps the word ‘generalize’ works?

[distant pebble]

neutralize

[earnest briar]

I finally found the screenshot I was talking about!

[solar sparrow]

My theory on why the realms of sky are changing (adding new areas and seasons) is that the fallen Kingdom of Sky is slowly healing from what happened in Eden. To go further into detail, seasons happen when they do, because the activity of sky kids (players) unlocking spirits, heals the magical force slightly. The more spirits that are helped, the more light comes back to the kingdom.

[eager burrow]

See, that sounds like you’ve got a sniper trained on their location and are about to take them out

[distant pebble]

Everyone got one sounds very equal

[eager burrow]

But skids aren’t a threat :(( there’s no need

[distant pebble]

oh so it's okay with other people besides skids?/j

[eager burrow]

no but okay

[soft timber]

This is a wild thing to come back to, but I could see some skids just bully the King just because they feel like it

[spiral vault]

Maybe, but I feel like the Season of Revival kinda implies that the seasonal areas were always there in the first place

[earnest briar]

to be fair, the diamond they made, and that Sky Kids skitter off to Eden to go die to every Sunday, exploded and wiped out most life in the realms because they used the wrong power adapter. So I think they deserve to get made fun of at least a little bit.

[sour sphinx]

I feel like every spirit we've encountered so far has seen us as a symbol of hope. Including Elders. Like we came to existence to bring life back to civilization

[narrow marsh]

Ambiguity, my old enemy

[wintry matrix]

We also see spirits (duets guide & costumed confetti cousin, TECHNICALLY stewie too) changing masks in game, Alefs mask seems to be little different between trailers (from plain looking one to more structured with triangle on forehead and little spikes on sides, maybe thats just design choice TGC decided and changed during production or maybe their “initial/born” mask changes shape over time during their life based on experience? just like halovian halo in HSR

[wintry matrix]

I feel like elders are carefully watching us from orbit just because of past negative experiences with Alef and because of how much we look like him /hc

[wintry matrix]

Equalize

[wintry matrix]

Oh also performace guide, though not in game but in one flashback/concept art the twins had matching masks in the past

[narrow marsh]

We don't see them in the midst of changing them, just that they have changed them. Passage and even the confirmation of performer masks during the Dreams era told the community even back then that masks are swapped with time and experience, relevant to each Ancestor's life.
To witness them actively taking one off though, and putting a new one on, would be nothing short of revolutionary 🕯️

[wintry matrix]

oh right i forgot about dreams girl changing mask too (but she changes it back after quest so i guess they can swap it freely?)

also i think i saw one of concept arts having the spirit holding the mask off their face? but i might be hallucinating

also i found some more "concept" arts from another person, they seem legit (cr. Tiffany Hayashi) > https://www.tiffanyhayashi.com/sky

[distant pebble]

pretty swirly rocks

[jovial nebula]

didn’t we see the passage guide take off their mask in their ‘meet the spirit’ art?

this one :3

[distant pebble]

it looks like a mask under a mask

[wintry matrix]

THATS THE ONE I MEANT

i knew i saw it somewhere recently, turns out it was literally few hours ago when i sent the passage guide introduction

[wintry matrix]

If this is mask under mask, maybe it is intimate/rude thing to show bare face to others? Like wearing clothes? if thats the case then oh god what are we doing to those poor spirits by not wearing the mask

Or maybe you literally get “blind” without mask, in that case rip if any goofer steals it when you sleep lol

[distant pebble]

we literally can only get a mask with no mask from a spirit so i wouldn't assume that

[distant pebble]

it would make sense but what is Cheerful spectator who is maskless spectating then

[wintry matrix]

well they are awful spectator then

[distant pebble]

Just cheer and smile..

anyways We do see plenty of non-seasonal spirits not wear a mask

[wintry matrix]

you can still see their eyes (besides memory whisperer) so they propably still wear some sort of mask

[midnight sonnet]

I just noticed this what is it

[distant pebble]

You can't see blushing prospectors for example
they're definitely not blind

[wintry matrix]

new area that will be released during anniversary event

[wintry matrix]

been going through older trailers again and this is another shot where we can see the eden castle in whole

[ancient canopy]

This looks so grandeur and knowing what it looks like up close, it makes me even more in awe

Can I share some screenshots from the trailer here

Ohhh omg that would be helpful as art reference

[wintry matrix]

ARCHITECTURE OF SKY KINGDOM - DIRECTIONS GUIDE
photos are best to open in your web browser for highest quality

**Aviary: **#lore-discussion-spoilers message

**Isle: ** #lore-discussion-spoilers message

Prairie: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

**Forest: ** #lore-discussion-spoilers message

**Valley: **#lore-discussion-spoilers message

**Wasteland: ** #lore-discussion-spoilers message

**Vault: ** #lore-discussion-spoilers message

**Eden: ** #lore-discussion-spoilers message

**Orbit: ** #lore-discussion-spoilers message #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[pastel brook]

I asked the Valley Elders for a spot on Team Valley and they gave me a position as janitor

[wintry matrix]

honetsly canon

[sour sphinx]

Rhythm and Performance Guides? They do have the same hairstyles But Performance has a hair tye with it.
At first glance at the last quest of Performance when Rhythm showed up I thought they were a couple or something Then over time I saw they may be siblings

[wintry matrix]

they are canon twins!

[sour sphinx]

A sibling reunion

[ancient canopy]

Vault of cutscenes 😭

ping me when u do the 9cd area architecture

[wintry matrix]

that will take some time, besides the few odler ones, i started yesterday

[ancient canopy]

Aw but the patience will be worth it!

[wintry matrix]

im going realm by realm (started with wind paths only because it is crossroads of all realms)

i have some elder closeups if you are interested, i will make direction guide for them later too (to avoid spam for now)

actually no, most of them are done, i can do it now, it wont be that big of spam

[ancient canopy]

[grim depot]

yea wasent sure wehre to post it since its in the seassonal area but it dose have to do with sky lore since Mega bird

[wintry matrix]

we already theorised that blue bird can be one of deitities in sky together with aurora and megabird, so no worries, this is right spot

[grim depot]

yea I did assume maybe blue bird is with mega bird, really cool tho that this just hides in the seassonal area...like I was just looking up at random and then noticed it

[wintry matrix]

hold on, one of the manatees (the big one in second row) has the darkstone illness too

[grim depot]

I wonder do they just die wehn aflicted with darkness or dose only active involvement make dark creatures like krills?

[wintry matrix]

We dont know for sure yet, krill do look like skeletons of elder manta and leviathan (king krill) like corrupted elder manta, but thats pretty much where all connections end. Stewie seems to be able to (or atleast attempt) heal the illness from little fishy and the kid, but if uncured, it likely turns your whole body into the stone statue you see in PNR or when reliving memory. I also saw theory that krill are (un)dead mantas who refused to die (or are unable to die because the route to holy land in eden is currently blocked so they cant reincarnate) and thats why they are so hungry for the light because their own light was taken away. This theory is also lowkey supported by the murals in treasure reef where it seems to be portraying creation of krill out of light creatures

Stewie (or maybe someone else) was succesfull to heal the little manatee baby because the illness stretching all the way on its shoulder seems to be gone

someone (propably the old man Stewie is friend with) made it a cast, that fin is all curled up and smaller than the healthy one, it is propably broken or deformed from the illness (the little guy can also be holding it like that because of pain but it looks deformed and smaller to me imo)

[narrow marsh]

Dream girl's instance almost implies to me that their bird mask is placed over their other mask. But even if that's not the case, yes, they perhaps may have not worn it all the time. 🕯️

[narrow marsh]

Oh wow!!!

[narrow marsh]

Ah, but this-
Only adds on to what I just said about the Dreams girl
Quite a lot for us to think about indeed. 🕯️

[wintry matrix]

Not really, if you look closely you can see bare black face under it, she normally wears default mask which would be visible under it

[ancient canopy]

Oh yeah!! I noticed too

[sour sphinx]

I didn't know it was there I'll look into that

[wintry matrix]

ARCHITECTURE OF SKY KINGDOM - EDEN

**Entrance: ** #lore-discussion-spoilers message

First area: TBA

Second area: TBA

PNR: #lore-discussion-spoilers message #lore-discussion-spoilers message

Path to Orbit: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

sorry i forgot to make that one lol

[wintry matrix]

it has to be broken into parts cuz last time i tried to make longer post with more stuff at once, the bot gave me hour long mute

who do i should bother to maybe pin the main post though?

[narrow marsh]

Ze message links are ze key

[solid token]

If all of us are a piece of one man does that mean we're all related. LIKE SIBLINGS

[wintry matrix]

"piece of one man" 😭

im taking resh's ear yall

[solar sparrow]

With the Eden blast, I believe that spirits that we relive fall into a few different categories: the ones that we have to help, and the ones that we don't. The drag spirits most likely died traumatically or had a traumatic incident involved with memory. This mainly makes sense in Golden Wasteland, where the majority of seasonal spirits are the dragging type.

[wintry matrix]

all spirits likely died traumatically because THEY DIED
you are not supposed to leave body behind when you die in sky kingdom

the memory we see might not be the moment they died (though it might as well be if the explosion was simmilar to nuke, look up ghosts of fukushima for example)

(instead of wiping everything in the way by burning it instant, it wiped all light in the way in instant)

[scenic pebble]

i mean
there were survivors.. probably
all the rambling with Abyss seems to be pointing to that

[spiral vault]

I don't know how successful it really is, we don't see the manatee when Hopeful Steward enters the Vault

[sour sphinx]

Would King Krill ever show up in Two Embers or no? I know he showed up in Abyss and briefly in Moomins

[spiral vault]

I think the "fragments of the king" is more metaphorical

[spiral vault]

In my honest opinion, Two Embers is already dealing with so much stuff that trying to cover the King Krill would make it bloated. Unless they somehow made a Three Embers expanding upon the post-Shattering time period

[wintry matrix]

i would love if they end up making more stories after two embers honestly

maybe mini series with each episode dedicated to one of lore related seasons for example

[spiral vault]

True, like the Tales of Star Wars but for Sky

[ashen fractal]

I feel like I'd rather see that lore in game. Perhaps more seasons dealing with the past where you relive part of that story as the spirit instead of watching them.

[wintry matrix]

im talking about already existing seasons

lightseekers definitely needs more lore for example, so does enchantment and prophecy

[ashen fractal]

Oh! I love that idea ok. Sorry misunderstood.

[earnest briar]

I call dibs on the gloves!

[feral radish]

Doing Mega Bird's work right here! I can see how there is a running theory of being born with the masks, I'd assume it would have a similar structure / texture to turtle shells perhaps? Since they are also sea creatures and fit the narrative of the world being full of creatures like whales, mantas, krill, etc. But I am more in favour of the fact they create their masks. Perhaps its a culture of concealing one's identity to be more affinitive with spirituality?

Also I see you mentioned that the Sky Kids were made in the image of the ancestors, while I also support this along with the theory of them being direct fragments of the Ruler's essence, I was more talking about the citizens of the old kingdom (scenes in the Two Embers trailer). We see the scholars have tall 'scripture' masks, warriors have guards and spikes to denote valour and also invoke fear? However, the regular civilians don regular circular and smooth masks like we see the Sky Kids wear, but also wear masks in the image of the ancestors, which would probably signify the caste system is split into what specific role you play, warrior, scholar, navigator, engineer, no mask for athletics / performances, and general masks for everything in between.

[feral radish]

Also since I loved how you layed this out~ do you have any running theories on the significance of the elements in the Cave of Prophecies?

We also see two spirits with no mask on at all, and even offer it as a customization option.

[trail drum]

I got a theory why the king wears that star crown to cover his face, either he had his face damaged from black shards, a fight with an Elder or it's a way to make him look intimidating, it's always been something that I've been figuring out

[wintry matrix]

Little baby him already has small pointy pieces on spots where the star eventually forms, so (im not disagreeing with your theory, just offering different point of view) either the masks DO “grow and evolve” with their wearer (unless they willingly change their birth mask maybe??) and the star simply grew as he got older or he liked the shape and wanted to scare children so he bought more intimidating one in halloween store

[spiral vault]

I don't think this is showing the Shattering, just the Eden Diamond charging up

[wintry matrix]

there are beams of light popping from various parts of the city two frames after

[feral radish]

High resolution!!! 😫

[earnest briar]

he hit his head when he landed in Isle 💔

[trail drum]

Oh! Now I can see it! Kinda hard to see it without the outline to show it, huh maybe we might find out if masks do change when skykids get older

[hoary ingot]

What is the cultural significance of masks again?

[trail drum]

No idea but when we wear masks our eyes are open, putting on the maskless, our eyes close

[plush haven]

Maybe it has something to do with us being made of light

[trail drum]

Oh maybe 🤔

[sick plume]

does anyone have any theories as to why valley is like the only regoin with barely any dark plants

[eager burrow]

Less of a theory, more of a hypothesis:
Maybe elevation has something to do with it?

We start the Valley at a the higher parts of a mountain range and just keep descending as we get closer to the Golden Wasteland, which has a really high concentration of pollution. Wind paths also has hardly any dark plants.
Idk though. I’d have to got through each realm and gauge their elevations to one another.

[sour sphinx]

I'm curious if we'll see any of the Enchantment or Abyss people in Two Embers? I know we've probably seen Tiptoeing Tea-Brewer

[trail drum]

It does make a lot of sense, plus there is snow too

[distant pebble]

Probably Enchantment guide since Stewie got to know him from somewhere

[azure dagger]

Is alef and resh the same person?

[tacit sentinel]

I was exploring outside of the moomin house and I found this, text has to be at the beginning cause it would be taken down without it

[molten dust]

hey lore gang... whats our canonical explanation for tihs

[wintry matrix]

Please report it as bug, it should have been fixed in recent patch.

[wintry matrix]

Now tell me how many irl plants you saw high in the mountains

[wintry matrix]

Yes but we also dont know for sure but for now likely yes

[wintry matrix]

Thats just easter egg, not lore and tbh I wouldnt count anything moomin related to sky lore at all. TLP is borderline cuz it had its original sky related story and seems to be semi canon but moomins were… just moomins

[wintry matrix]

I will finish aviary today evening, sorry for delay, i was really tired and cold from low blood pressure so i went to sneep early

[eager burrow]

No need to apologize! Rest is important! ^v^

[wintry matrix]

That means we get to see owl twins too maybe

[narrow marsh]

Only two? I believe there a quite a lot; any of the ones with little diamond eyes, really. 🕯️

[distant pebble]

All season guides show up and subtitles say "together we are sky!"/j

[wintry matrix]

They gonna have singing and dancing moment like in ice age 3 credits 😭

“We are family”

[wintry matrix]

The dot eye ones are debatable, they can still be wearing some sort of mask… but then you have cannoneer who has broken mask in half and showing “bare eye” but that can also be because she is still wearing a mask, be it just a half. Memory whisperer however has no mask at all and the red cape valley dude (forgot his name but he gives the maskless mask) too

Wait not memory whisperer, the other guy

Huh i would swear it was memory whisperer and he has no eyes while showing in aviary but wiki shows him with eyes

[narrow marsh]

Descendants (skykids) are the most we have to physically work with and observe, while even Spirits may not be direct representations of Ancestors when they were alive. Everything that Spirits do or can do are heavily dependant on and reflective of Light, while what we've seen of Two Embers explicitly shows us that that is not really the case for the average mortal Ancestor.

But overall, masks absolutely represented and titles. Bird masks, for example, were confirmed by a dev to be (for the most part) worn primarily by performers! Seasons like Passage and Performance really showed us the potential of 'prototype masks' for young Ancestors still training for something, to become something

The turtle shell thing is really cool by the way! When I have time I'll reference some theories that run parallel to that idea. 🕯️

[distant pebble]

Bird whisperer doesn't have a mask if we're talking about spirits who have closed eyes like skykids

[wintry matrix]

Damnit hes not in aviary today

This guy

Thats memory whisperer, no? I found old video of me having autistic moment with him

[distant pebble]

just look at spirits through constellations

[wintry matrix]

But when you look him up on wiki he has eyes

(1/2)

Shivering trailblazer is hard to tell if they have eyes or not

(2/2)
it is also interesting that all whisperers have no mask, maybe not having mask makes them better to imitate the sounds?

Not sure how much related or even canon (as it seem to change in other trailers), but alef at one point had mask that looks like default skid mask (minus the color and the lit up forehead diamond and plus the triangles under eyes like owl twins and sone other spirits have)

But the child in stargazer memory has no mask at all (maybe they will change it after two embers who knows)

[wintry matrix]

Aw damn it deleted my response i was responding to this

[scenic pebble]

counterpoint
seasonal whisperers
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sky-children-of-the-light/images/4/43/Sanctuary-Spirit-Jelly-Whisperer.png/revision/latest?cb=20230831223853
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/sky-children-of-the-light/images/6/6f/Moments-Spirit-Nightbird-Whisperer.png/revision/latest?cb=20230918150842

[wintry matrix]

Also ancestors have hair (duh) but no nails even though both are made out of ceratin

[wintry matrix]

Yes im aware of her please come as TS you are so cute i need your stuff my moth self made whole photoshoot with you

[strange flare]

I find it interesting that The Ruler's mask is unlike any other mask

most mask are flat and human like

some are based on animals

but the ruler? Shaped like a star. It may even be a crown in a way. But also the artificial star being there resembles the krill's eye.

[wintry matrix]

Krill is Resh’s fursona confirmed

His mask could have mutated because of the corruption

[distant pebble]

that would add up to mask growing with a person thingy
exept it's only working in corruption cases or only on Resh ig

[wintry matrix]

We can already see other creatures being corruption mutated, like red shard crabs or even possibly mutated manta elder in form of leviathan (and of course krill)

[spiral vault]

This is crazy, do we know what music track it is?

[distant pebble]

i meant how corruption might affect masks which non-humanoid creatures don't seem to wear
But they do have a shell on their faces quite often could masks mimic that?

[wintry matrix]

Crabs and mantas have face shields/shells that do look to be made from simmilar if not same material as the masks we see in two embers

If the masks indeed “grow on you” they can be affected by corruption just like those on other creatures

[bright lion]

I’m still curious what’s the structure on the side of Wasteland’s first area. I mean, it’s not the elder temple, that can be seen through the large break in the wall

[wintry matrix]

Thats refinery, maybe we will see more of it in two embers, it might be the spot where we se stewie and their manatee taking shelter in one of the first trailers

There are more out of bounds buildings with suspiciously high details in wasteland, like this one: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[bright lion]

That’s near the ship, right?

[wintry matrix]

Yes

I didnt manage to explore the other two buildings there because my game froze and i didnt manage to bug the wind barrier again since

[bright lion]

Can you tell me the areas?

[wintry matrix]

I dont even know what bugged it, i was just flying around and noticed theres no wind so i continued further in

[wintry matrix]

If you look closely i think you can figure out where it is

[bright lion]

Alright, thanks

[narrow marsh]

It may be an old design that they silently updated one day. Which is very strange for them to do, when many Spirits still have the diamond eyes, notably ones from Valley, I believe

[narrow marsh]

Memories aren't perfectly distinctive, which is super important to remember.
Spirit memories, and Season Questlines, often show a story more than they perfectly showcase events.

Parable over Doctrine.

To me personally, Seasons like Remembrance particularly represent this trend; where the four Spirits don't need to (just) represent four real people from the kingdom, but rather stories of horrible events that were happening to the civilians in the kingdom as a whole. 🕯️

[wintry matrix]

Yes thats why i say it might not be canon anymore and we might not see the prince until atleast year from now if they release dawn part shortly after dusk part

Oh wait its not nvm lol

I thought you are reacting to alefs mask lol sorry i got my mask convos mixed lol

I am just 🌈 stupid ✨

[narrow marsh]

Hey, the amount of brainstorming you're working on is quite impressive, you're doing plenty fine

I miss when I was still in brainstorming phase like last year; I would come up with all sorts of new ideas that helped further investigations in crazy new ways. To some extent Raider is right about how Lore theorists age into their place. 🕯️ 🕯️ 🕯️

[wintry matrix]

Its just a quick doodle, it started to rain not so long after I started sketching

I find interesting how much beaten up that mask is, its either corruption or he fought a lot of… krills maybe?

[feral radish]

I would assume it was for processing light creatures into useable light energy, a power plant essentially. That is why it looks like a nexus of pipes. In the Aurora concert we see mantas being captured and caged in the Valley of Triumph scene. So it would make sense that a center for processing these creatures would be nearby.

Looks more akin to a seat of government perhaps? Very few structures 'have the right' to adorn the detailed star symbol as opposed to the more simplistic symbols representing the Ruler's mask. At the top center of the entrance it looks like a diamond emitting rays of light. I understand the civilisation is centered around a giant diamond of light, but could it mean something else?

[wintry matrix]

This is not the refinery seen in BT, this is deeper in wasteland mainland

[feral radish]

Images like these make me more convinced there was some sort of civil war in the last moments before the shattering. If this is supposed to be the walls of the 'glorious' capital, why would they allow a broken ship with those gold containers to still lay in ruins, surrounded by crumbling walls of said capital. Don't forget we also see some sort of explosion take place in the upper city in the trailer.

[wintry matrix]

BT is broken temple, first wasteland area after you flush yourself in the giant toilet

The refinery in BT is just the png, i already checked

Thats why i was so surprised this one had full and even detailed model

[feral radish]

Yes I understand. But would you agree it looks like a building of great importance / government?

[wintry matrix]

It had long hall leading nowhere so it prolly was important but also building so important building this close to city edge? It was literally “over the fence”

Wish i could take more photos but as i said, the game froze on both ends and I couldnt access it anymore after restart

[feral radish]

Oh that is something to note. Maybe it was an embassy or citizen processing center, to welcome new citizens perhaps? Embassies usually take on grand designs to project their power and culture onto neighbors. We know the civilization has a nomadic culture, so maybe it was to show off the wealth of the capital with all these designs to distant travellers. Explains the diamond symbol with light pouring out painted on the front door, to show what the capital is centered around! Also it is fairly tall, so perhaps it was meant to tower over the wall to project the star-symbol of the Ruler over a great distance to notify travellers they are nearing the capital / kingdom territory?

[wintry matrix]

Dont forget those star symbols were used as weapons (turrets), we can see smaller version of them in battlefield and one big in distance near wasteland temple (both of them are shown in the newest trailer as well)

[feral radish]

I was looking back through the concept art just then and was about to mention the star turrets! We also see one eerily similar (albeit on a smalle r scale) in the trailer! The bottom of the second picture looks like a small group of light creatures. Maybe these were meant to extract light from passing creatures?

[trail drum]

No don't tell me those baby manatee are

😭😭😭😭😭

[scenic pebble]

fossil fuels have one downside
you have to wait
but thanks to these revolutionary technologies you no longer have to
just flip the switch and it'll power your fridge right up

[wintry matrix]

That sounds like commercial narrated by Resh himself

barely noticeable in mainland wasteland light but black dye plants are "rainbow" just like gasoline is

they changed the text and gave stewie the nb icon status back

[trail drum]

Hey that's the same manatee from the 1st trailer

[wintry matrix]

corporate wants you to find difference between those two pictures

[spiral vault]

What did they change it from? I feel like the text was always this

[wintry matrix]

no it was boy lives

[spiral vault]

And anyways, do you think we'll see seasonal spirits in the Two Embers? Or will it be just the Hopeful Steward and original characters.

I'm thinking about it because the original characters could work as spirits for the next Two Embers season

[wintry matrix]

the old man will defo be seasonal spirit

maybe that little kid as well

seasonal guide will either be stewie again, manatee (lol) or memory lantern cuz we will likely go back in time through memories or something

or resh, that would be funny actually

just him awkwardly standing near realm gates as stewie is giving him bombastic side eye evevery few minutes

speaking of which, we shoudl soon get the next season logo reveal?

[spiral vault]

It should've been

[wintry matrix]

other winged lights dont have mask, making the elder memory ones unique

[scenic pebble]

it's already there tho

[spiral vault]

What I meant is that it looks like the Resh symbol, so it would've fit for a season focused on it

[wintry matrix]

season of radiance? nah, season of reshiance

season of renaissance

[sour sphinx]

Would we be the first ones to fly? I know the only way to do it is with the help of WL and the capes we wear

[soft timber]

Seems like it, none of the spirits seem to use their capes for flight but they can hold hands with Skykids who do fly and doesn't seem like they hinder us at all

[wintry matrix]

well they are literal spirits, they are just light at this point

prince is the only non spirit who was able to fly with us

[earnest briar]

he is also a child, which is a lot easier to carry with you while flying than a grownup.

[wintry matrix]

i waited and waited to get a cool shot and was prepared for the shard to fall on my head... only for the shard to fall on my head from the other direction i guess shards can pass through walls now

i thought it will fall though this hole cuz it is the only hole somewhat facing eden

[ancient canopy]

Dropping the 2E p1 synopsis translation from TGC JP

[earnest briar]

He/she/they icon Stewie ✨💅

[sour sphinx]

Maybe the Dusk Child/Stewie will be the real hero in Two Embers??

[sour sphinx]

If I had to guess, Stewie/Dusk Child's journey starts after she loses her mom ? Same with Alef/Dawn Child/Resh?

[trail drum]

OMG
I made a theory that I told to my other friends that the shards were like a disease

And Hopeful Steward being the hero of the story is gonna happen, for Dawn is gonna be the rise of hope, dawn is the definiton of the sun rising, and Hopeful Steward is the representation of the rising hope for the people to stop the King's darkened wrath along with their companion

Then with Dusk, will focus on Eden King, his origins, how he rose to be King and soon his downfall, dusk being the definition of the sun setting where light fades away, this will represent the Eden King's downfall

[wintry matrix]

Jenova literally said they and alef are main characters (did not specify if protagonists or antagonists)

[wintry matrix]

they/them may/hem
cuz they gonna cause mayhem in eden

[wintry matrix]

listen, stewie would be such an mvp distracting krills with this huge fireworks staff

"krills want the light, they will get the light" blows entire arsenal of colorful explosives

[sour sphinx]

I do have the firework staff. I do see it as a gift from Hopeful Stewart

[wintry matrix]

sorry for the delay

[sour sphinx]

I find the Duets Guide and the Cello player a couple

[earnest briar]

They’re besties who are a bit more than just really good friends.

[wintry matrix]

i need to grab camera for shards next time and go to starlit desert, that was spectacular

[gilded comet]

Hello, are my wings all gone after Eden ?

[wintry matrix]

hi, this is not channel to ask these questions in, head to #questions-and-help or #eden-spoilers but i will respond you this time - yes, you keep only the wing buffs you bought for ascended candles after eden run

[ivory geyser]

Is the biggest creature in sky was the big fish in abbys or there someone bigger than it??

[wintry matrix]

megabird elder manta is about the same size as big bertha

[wintry matrix]

isle of dawn is next!

[trail drum]

Now I wonder about how the Elders became the Elders

[wintry matrix]

elders were always elders, according to tgc
source: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EY_T5k_c__D_ZoJFgQ0A4xsDIABW3gGhk1T2GSovZng/edit

we as skids are like cousins to them, not directly related but of same origin

[trail drum]

Wait they have been our cousins this whole time....?

[wintry matrix]

welcome to the server by the way!

[wintry matrix]

cousins like "cousins", not literal blood related cousins

i will leave the rest on enzhale, im just humble photographer

[earnest briar]

not cousins in the literal, biological sense, but cousins in that we both originate from the Light, are a separate species to the Ancestor Spirits, and were sent down to play specific roles in the world. Elders to lead the civilizations, and Sky Kids to save the Spirits and the Elders after they were unable to ascend.

[earnest briar]

Don’t sell yourself short, Luca.
You’re a lot more than just lorechat’s photographer.

[trail drum]

Okay makes sense so they r considered our cousins but not related biologically

[spiral vault]

I think Dawn/Dusk refer to the realms. Wasteland is called Dusk in many terms, and that's where Hopeful Steward seems to live

[wintry matrix]

and dawn is internal name of isle where alef is being found

and it is literally isle of DAWN duh

i mean (ofc this can change after release) it is lowkey giving star wars - alef is propably found to be sensitive to Light so they send him to school where they teach kids like these how to harness Light. Something goes wrong and he becomes corrupt. Then a new hope fingerguns appears to fix everything

im pretty positive this scene happens in isle temple and if not there, then in valley temple/some other valley building, they both have same type of windows, wasteland has those too but the buildings do not have this tall and catedral like ceilings (atleast from what we seen in game), im personally the most positive on that this is on isle and it is the same building/school/orphanage Alef is being send to because it just makes sense to me for them to teach how to harness Light there than in valley or wasteland

also again i really want this outfit to be season cosmetic

can someone analyse those flags for me? i feel like i saw them somewhere before, maybe valley?

they are not on the ship anymore in game as far i know

[sour sphinx]

I almost feel like they remind me of either Dreams Guide or Sparkler Parent because of the hairstyle

[wintry matrix]

this room is giving me entrance to prophecy cave (the long canyon you have to go before reaching the gate), maybe all the kids on the boat were heading to the trials?

lamed has emerald on her tabet which she doesnt have in game, was vault the one who got earth as element from alef? maybe whatever was it was stored in those stones? and lamed either lost it or resh took it away

"fun" fact, this shot of tent being blown away is the same tent stewie used to sleep in

[wintry matrix]

ok this emerald might actually be darkstone because same stone is on the weapons... lamed, why do you need darkstone in your tablet? are you gonna headbutt someone??

[sour sphinx]

That does look like the entrance to Prophecy Cave. Or the path that leads to it. What if Alef is the only one that successfully went through the Elemental Trials in his group? Isn't that what the lore said? That he survived when no one else did

[sour sphinx]

Probably be brutal if that happened Maybe one of the soldiers had one on their head and did that?

[wintry matrix]

i meant the headbutt as joke lol

they wear kings symbol on their chestplates

[sour sphinx]

Right 😅 Not sure why I went with what I said

[wintry matrix]

this shot goes fast but stewie freed the manatee flock we see at the very start of the trailer

[sour sphinx]

I wonder if that's how she'll get her Manatee companion?

[narrow marsh]

Wow! Further potential evidence towards the kids being delivered by that boat and scholar heading en route to Prophecy! 🕯️

[wintry matrix]

stewie is stated as they on english website, chinese language doesnt even have gender neutral term i think?

there are still green plants growing at that time

[sour sphinx]

I know our Sky Kid's and spirits don't really have a gender. I just have my own guesses

[wintry matrix]

more greenery

[sour sphinx]

I love how each realm had green in nature 😀

[wintry matrix]

stewie also seem to be taller here than at the bgining of the trailer so there will be atleast year or two timeskip

or maybe its just weird angle but i feel like they got bit taller too

potatoes! 😄

there are more people behind stewie in this scene and the old guy seems to be sitting in the background, also healing someone, maybe hes the one who teach them how to do that (this also fits to my star wars theory lol, the old guy being obiwan and stewie is of course luke)

[wintry matrix]

no maskless ancestor was found in any of the trailers

[narrow marsh]

I'm sure my theory will likely be correct, then. If a maskless Ancestor is shown in full HD, it'll likely be during some crazy twist moment. 🕯️

[wintry matrix]

not 100% match but very close + location matches

[sour sphinx]

I had to look closely for that! It does look like something Anxious Angler would wear

[wintry matrix]

it also makes more sense why stargazer and the other ancestor i keep forgetting name off are so sad alef is leaving and alef looking all worried too

[astral crater]

How come light beings/animals are white with gold markings but sky kids have more dark colored bodies? Do we know?

[narrow marsh]

Concept art depicts both Ancestors and Descendants (skykids) as made of other things besides Light, but because this is concept art, these are only theories. Thematically, skykids are conceptually grounded as a neutral role between the Light and the indifference of humanity. 🕯️

Luca will likely present the relevamt pictures

[wintry matrix]

theres one more thing i will write here before sleep that got me thinking today - what if the maskless spirits from constellations are meant to represent job/hobby/specialisation/whatever in general rather than one singular person and only the ones with masks (i count the white button eyed spirits as mask wearers cuz it might just be that black mask from two embers) are actual individual people? iirc there are no maskless spirits in any of the seasons cuz each season has stories about individials, even ascentic monk has "mask" in form of the scarf over eyes

[wintry matrix]

luca will not present relevant pictures because luca is going to sleep as it is past 1 am here maybe tommorow

[narrow marsh]

All good! I thought you were racing me again

[wintry matrix]

nah i was just vomiting my brainrot on the keyboard aka the theory i wrote up there

[eager burrow]

Correct on both accounts.
We actually see 2 colors of flags in the Valley of Triumph, blue and red.
We see this repeated at the Coliseum, with the additions of teal and green matching the colors to the AURORA spirits.
The ship no longer has visible flags/banners, but perhaps these different colors are representative of factions within the Sky Kingdom?

[wintry matrix]

hmm so it is safe to assume that ship came to wasteland from valley?

[narrow marsh]

I love you guys

[wintry matrix]

also i love how from all spirits you decided to pose next to warrior of love, hes such a babygirl

fellow manta lover how can i not love him (i also like warrior as song)

[eager burrow]

The Valley of Triumph and Golden Wasteland were once the Golden Valley, iirc, so it may have been local and getting ready embark from there.
The factions also might not be dictated by lands or borders. Rather, they could be factions of ideas or beliefs!

[narrow marsh]

Here's some of the relevant images, sorry for the wait.

You can find more concept art at the sit below 🕯️

https://www.tomzhao.com/sky1

[astral crater]

I'm trying to figure out how to translate my fursona into a skykidsona and it's been difficult to wrap my head around

[eager burrow]

Trouble with skid anatomy vs fursona anatomy, yeah?
I believe ShatteredTomte had a post/comment/message that had some useful links a while back, lemme see if I can find it

#lore-discussion-spoilers message
Here’s the link to that message ^^^

Hope that helps!

[earnest briar]

It doesn’t need to be for fighting. I think a more likely (and hilarious) possibility would be that it’s actually one of the diamonds used for storing and projecting memories in the memory lamps. Lamed’s so dedicated to their job they have a projector in their headdress so that they can give slideshow presentations wherever they go.

[earnest briar]

Not necessarily that Alef was the only one who survived, as I doubt people would (presumably) repeatedly let/send their kids off to be taught by the Prophets and attempt the Trials if their kids all died as a result. Just that Alef was the only one who succeeded.

[sour sphinx]

Yeah makes sense. Probably them being mortals and only doing them once. And we're immortal and we can do it as many times as we want

[wintry matrix]

This is not really something we discuss here this is lore channel but you can try asking in #general-sky-discussion

now im going back to sleep, some goofy spirit from graveyard under my windows decided to keep waking me up until i told them to stop

[polar forge]

Bro is a walking PowerPoint presentation

[ancient sky]

guys what is two embers

[noble ferry]

Two Embers it the upcoming animated series to be released in July 2025 that tells the story of the Sky Kingdom before it all imploded and fell apart.
Part 1 will show the story of the Dusk Ember and their sick manatee friend

[ancient sky]

whats the dusk ember?

and do we know how much parts they’ll be 😓😓😓

OH DUSK EMBER IS THE CHULD

and is dawn ember the ither child

[sour sphinx]

The child of light that we embrace before we fly through the second part of Eden, would that be the King?
And on the mural in Eden, we'd see a royal figure (King Resh) and the Eden Crystal with civilians bowing. I know he is also considered an Elder but he's probably higher than that. A royalty that rules all thee Realms

[noble ferry]

Dawn Ember is said to be the young version of the ruler of sky also known as the eden elder
I’d infodump but I need to finish this eden elder easay doc soon that is severely overdue 😭

[sour sphinx]

Well, we do have a bunch of lore to do before Two Embers comes out

[noble ferry]

Hhhhh im gonna have my work cut out when two embers drops which is why I NEED TO FINISH THIS DOC RAHHHHHH

[ancient sky]

its confirmed to be split into two seasons, sky said it themselves in a video right?

[wintry matrix]

We dont know. There was convo that this kid is still us or “us”, that we are split in two parts here, becoming one. There is paralel to this scene in one of two embers trailer where the light child (though they look more like winged light there than glowing kid) is stewie and the shadow kid is alef, im really interested what happens in that scene (could be scene shortly after the memory lamp one if Lamed is really sending stewie into reshs memories)

Tgc said that we have close relationship with the person portrayed in the winged lights but did not elaborate further. It could be Alef if we are pieces of him or it could be Stewie because they are our best friend

Sorry if this doesnt make sense im still half asleep

Some new concept arts

[ancient canopy]

It's actually shown in last year's skyfest btw

Part of the artbook too ^^

[wintry matrix]

i wasnt there for the last year skyfest i joined mid duets

[muted salmon]

you know, I just had a thought

you know that two embers teaser scene with the boat and the dawn ember? the boat is probably going to the cave of prophecies

[wintry matrix]

gasp #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[narrow marsh]

How I'm tryna be 🕯️

[muted salmon]

coincidence? yes, also nice catch

i dunno why but I kinda want to grab a video editor and handstitch potential scenes

[narrow marsh]

There's no such thing as overdue

Besides, we don't know how much TGC will completely overwrite in regards to what we know about the Child's early life until coronation, that we will have to exhaustively edit after the fact. And god forbid they say "the evidence was there all along!"

[muted salmon]

nah, there will be scenes like that, i think they split the series to two because of timeskips and dawn becoming eden elder

makes me wish one of the ancestors in the compound where dusk/stewie is being the same spirit that lets you change your hair in aviary

...what if Aviary is formerly part of GW and that new section in Aviary where there's a blocked door is how we access the season?

[wintry matrix]

By position on the map, aviary is either part of isle or completely outside of the kingdom

Also about the door - no, the door is anniversary related, it has nothing to do with two embers. We are forbidden to talk about it more outside the beta channels

[noble ferry]

A question for you all (totally not for my eden elder doc and to get more thoughts)

What did you think happened to the Eden Elder?
What do you think is the glowy child you hug when you die in Eden?

[wintry matrix]

Last question was asked here few hours ago

[noble ferry]

Oh right I could probably just search up answers here

[wintry matrix]

Based on concept art, king is still trapped inside of eden, unsure if he is still alive or not

Those two winged lights hugging in elder shattering memory and the stewie - alef purgatory room moments might directly follow each other on the timeline

But it does not make sense how (if this is how both of them died or “died”) stewie ended up in front of aviary village gates unless they maybe got reborn just like we do but something went wrong and they died again shortly after

[distant pebble]

i like to think she shattered in a literal sense during the explosion I just think it's a good way for Resh to go out after all that rock obsession
If we're talking about what happened to the body

[wintry matrix]

Girls and their shiny rocks obsessions 🙄🙄🙄💅✨

[distant pebble]

she's so real for that tho
in terms of pretty of course

[noble ferry]

Eden Elder x Eden Diamond

[eager burrow]

I think Resh either 1) exploded into a bajillion pieces 2) died and left a body/husk in the crumbling palace or highly unlikely 3) is still alive in the heart of the mountain, largely dormant from lack of light

I imagine them extraordinarily large for some reason, even though I’m pretty sure they’re only slightly taller than the the taller ancestor spirits

[wintry matrix]

“Where did little Alef go during shattering explosion?”

“Everywhere.”

im sorry

[eager burrow]

Pardon the speculative word wall:
See, the thing with that is I don’t think Hope was there for long. I think they tried to convince Resh, and maybe did, but in either case I wonder if they got pushed away by Resh (in the bad version bc they don’t want Hope interfering and in the good version bc they’re trying to save Hope from the imminent disaster).
Perhaps Hope was pushed to Aviary via portal or by the blast itself (neither are all that likely)
Another option was they did their best with Resh, somehow escaped the blast of the shattering, then ran through the rest of the Kingdom trying to help where they could, trying to create havens from the ravaging darkness and shardfalls, leading to the creation of Aviary Village.

[violet zenith]

Does anyone have new lore for these eggs in Hidden forest? After the new the blue bird quest I wanna know more.

[wintry matrix]

Old light awaits daily to observe eagles nest

[violet zenith]

Wait it's a eagle's next???

[wintry matrix]

The daily was called that yes

The eagle in question might be the rhythm bird we see in light awaits (and also on season of flight promo art) but we never know because it never appeared in live version

[violet zenith]

So the only thing I suppose, just wait till Tgc decides to drop hints in future lives and trailers.

[wintry matrix]

Outside of megabird we dont know of any bigger bird than rhythm bird is, all of other birds are smaller than those eggs are

[scenic pebble]

wait
it has a double liner on it
this feels like a joke

[wintry matrix]

It is literal easter eggs yes

[violet zenith]

I am pretty sure there is a reason why Tgc made the new seasonal quest right where the eagle's nest. So for now we all just sit here hoping we'll know something about the those eggs in the future. Maybe a whole new season for based on the eggs? How does that sounds?

[muted salmon]

they were cut content left behind so...

[twin dock]

It probably was for the literal easter egg mention but I'm thinking it's from the blue bird, like cmon the blue bird being massive and just happened to sit on that exact spot, can't be a coincidence

[lone idol]

This is actually a decoration they left, that was part of a previous daily task if I am not mistaken ("visit the eggs on the tree in Forest" or a prompt alike)

[twin dock]

I have a faint memory of that

[lone idol]

And hello
Do we know why all the spirits (at least the ones from the base realms) passed away (given their tombs), leaving only the Elders alive ?
Do the season spirits, for instance from a collab, also are considered to not be alive ?

[distant pebble]

yeah everyone is dead
and elders are also dead

[wintry matrix]

@lone idol i elaborated on this topic a bit more here, feel free to ask us for anything else you wanna know

#seasons-events-chat message

#seasons-events-chat message

#seasons-events-chat message

#seasons-events-chat message

#seasons-events-chat message

[distant pebble]

weird to assume anyone is alive tbh

[lone idol]

Given what another member said, Elders are not dead as they don't have any tomb in a realm, and as after reviving, after going to Eden, we can see their light falling in Aviary or old home along with ours

[wintry matrix]

No they are not, they returned on orbit but instead or being reborn, they decided to stay there. They are like us, they cant truly die

[lone idol]

I'll make sure to have a look, thanks a lot !!

[wintry matrix]

Ancestors are dead, thats why we see them as spirits, but elders still have their own bodies just like us and other light creatures you meet on orbit

Im curious how they will handle stewie if they (with alef who we still did not meet in game) are also sky kids, maybe stewie will get model upgrade after season

We dont meet the elders in their temple, we meet them somewhere between time and space, in same plane of existence as the pity/purgatory room is, we were their “winged light” who gave them back their lost light, allowing them to escape the limbo and enter orbit

source: TGC official livestream

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EY_T5k_c__D_ZoJFgQ0A4xsDIABW3gGhk1T2GSovZng/edit

[violet zenith]

I am not very sureeeee, but is there's a possibility that the rhythm brother's somehow, maybe some how connected to blue bird?

[wintry matrix]

Owl twins got their own season, i doubt they are connected to this at all, blue bird is “part 2” of season of belonging i also did not play todays quest yet, if there is new lore, i will add to it later

[violet zenith]

I will look up to it. Thank you!

[wintry matrix]

BLUE BIRD/THE EAGLE UP CLOSE

[astral crater]

On the subject of that particular blue bird, does anyone know what's up with ||all the axes scattered all over that bit of forest at the end of the quest?||

[wintry matrix]

||remnants of other lumberjacks work, rather than being objects a literal objects, it is more like poetic picture if you get what i mean||

[astral crater]

So big blue bird ||is mad at the spirit/woodcutters in general because of over harvesting trees and that makes today's spirit sad because he's confronted with the guilt of being responsible/partially responsible for the damage?||

[inland cliff]

||It depicts the harmful act, and the said "leave with silence" or something at the end of the quest reference the idea of trees/plants being an organic that can only silently feel the inflicting pain||

[wintry matrix]

||greedy people destroyed the birds and other creatures natural habitat by chopping trees and mining darkstones, making whole area just stone forest without life and that makes the bird angry||

[inland cliff]

I just now wonder what are all those gold-shaped diamonds? It's festered in wasteland yet it's unclear what it does

[wintry matrix]

darkstones!

[inland cliff]

It creates dark stones? In what explicit way?

[scenic pebble]

it's actually found in many places
the idea closest to reality seems to be a darkstone container

[wintry matrix]

BLUE BIRD SYMBOLISM

Hairtousle teen - wealth brings only temporary happiness and attracts lot of false people

Sparkler parent - you will never be happy if you keep clinging on the past

Confetti cousin - looks are not everything, discover your true self to find happiness

Woodcutter parent - dont be greedy, be kind and happiness will smile upon you

Wise granparent - TBA

Boogie kid - TBA

Granma - TBA

[wintry matrix]

oh THOSE gold diamons... they are for storing and transporting light i believe

[scenic pebble]

nah, the Light is stored in pots

[wintry matrix]

butterflies are stored in pots

[scenic pebble]

i see no difference

[wintry matrix]

butterflies are old source of power before light powered darkstones were a thing

[scenic pebble]

am i supposed to pull the Praire-Forest mass industrial logistical route in here?

[wintry matrix]

please keep this chat in friendly matter, i am not in any way attacking you

[inland cliff]

Design wise the dark stone does fit with the intended hole but i can't even imagine how transporting works, it's like caviar egg packaging

[gaunt wigeon]

is there any established/official lore abt the krill?
if there is where could I find it?

[wintry matrix]

there is no concrete lore yet (we might see it in two embers) but there are murals portraying possible artifical creation of krills/the leviathan in abyss > #lore-discussion-spoilers message
another theory suggest kirll are corrupted/undead elder mantas/whales

if you wait a bit, more knowledgeable lore people will go online, im more about documenting the stuff than actually explaining it haha

[gaunt wigeon]

excelent, ty for the help

[midnight sonnet]

my theology thesis grows stronger

[eager burrow]

A huge theme in the game is the progression of a civilization, with the jump from Prairie to Forest symbolizing a jump in technology and progression sooo…. yes. ^v^
Isn’t it a cool parallel?

[scenic pebble]

sorry if i'm sounding mad, the voices were a bit more of a bother today than usually
i guess i'll bring up the supply chain theory
and i'll add a side dish of Light release
that do be sounding interesting but i've found a few things that have kept me thinking that pots were in fact utilized during the darkstone charging process
first, the fact that Praire still kept them and maybe even made them
if they weren't useful, why would you turn an entire temple into a warehouse and still make more of them?
second, why are the dark ships still in port and still with them on board?
third, the doors to the Forest temple imply that Light for the process came from somewhere on boats, gee i wonder if somewhere else in the realm there were some clues about what the flying boats may have carried
now onward to the Light Release theory
first, it is worth noting that there are a few pots around the realms that are implied to not have butterflies inside them, mainly the enchantment ones
the Light Release theory has popped into my head a while ago when i was watching one of the TE trailers
long story short, the motes utilized in a spell turned into butterflies
this has led me down a long think at the end of which i came to a conclusion that if Light is stored in a high pressure environment and then released in a very quick, one could even say explosive, fashion they proceed to fuse into butterflies as all Light seeks to fuse and grow
this can be seen in some pots and many dark plants especially the colored ones
so pots don't carry butterflies in the same way how two atoms of hydrogen aren't helium
i guess that will be all for now

[scenic pebble]

counterpoint
darkstone boats can be seen everywhere, that doesn't seem to be consistent with civilizational progress

[scenic pebble]

why do i smell charcoal?

[eager burrow]

Iirc the civ thing is done deliberately, with each realm becoming more advanced than the next (each realm maps to stages of life as well, which is neat, but that’s another story for another day).
(Part 1)

1. Isle of Dawn is representative of early civilization. The housing structures are relatively simple, and the temple is the most complex thing we see. We don’t see much evidence of any other tech besides the boats.
   The theory there is that these were happened upon, found by chance, not harvested intentionally.
2. Daylight Prairie is representative of civilization making slow advancements, discovering new ways of using what they have. We see this in the form of the summoning bells in the Prairie Village. We also find evidence of more advanced, “proper” structures. The temple is larger and slightly more grand.
3. Hidden Forest represents the civilization making a HUGE discovery— something that throws their progress forward by leaps and bounds. We find structures everywhere: the abandoned pavilions, the structures built up into the trees, the massive, much more complex temple that utilizes much more darkstone than previously seen. There’s a much more technical aspect, especially when you’re leaving the temple. We also see more gold used.
4. Valley of Triumph is the pinnacle of civilization, the height of this people in their grandeur. We see gold almost everywhere, banners and fabrics and statues and all kinds of decorative things show off the wealth and power they’ve amassed. Buildings are much more complicated and far more abundant. This is a civilization that’s settled and can afford to rest and entertain themselves. Darkstone is being traded throughout the realms, as we see in the murals in Triumph. The temple here is gilded and decked out in all manner of beautiful things.

[eager burrow]

(Part Two)

5. Golden Wasteland is the fall of the civilization. Everything is in ruin. We see evidence of rundown refineries and pipes; the remains of industry is everywhere we look. The buildings (what buildings still stand) are massive, hulking shells of something once-grand. We see evidence here of creatures once being trapped and possibly experimented on or used to harvest light to power the stones (Mantas caged in Treasure Reef, as well as the mural depicting the underwater structure we explore). We also see evidence of war (whether it’s a civil war as is theorized or just a battle against krill is to be seen), which often accompanies the downfall of powerful peoples. The “temple” (entrance to the Vault) in the Wasteland is large, complex, one of the largest we’ve seen (Triumph’s may be larger; I need to compare sizes).
6. Vault of Knowledge is the passage of the civilization into a name in history, into nothing more than an example to learn from, a predecessor to whomever inherits the land after them. The entirety of the Vault is basically a library of memories, and the whole thing— doors, the lift, floating platforms— is powered by darkstone. The temple at the very top is less of a temple and more of a shrine. A representation of what things used to be.
7. Eden. Eden is the finality and loss of everything. Everything is forgotten and destroyed eventually. Time and nature degrades even the sturdiest of ruins. Nothing here is being preserved; there’s no one left to do so. Everything is falling apart. Anything darkstone-related hardly works (broken door we light to continue through Eden), and we see much larger pipes and signs of industry as we did in the Wasteland. Storms of rock and ruin tear through structures and remains. During our flythrough after dying in the Eye, we literally see the remains crumbling down and collapsing.
   Nothing will be left, and the world will move on. The scars will heal.

Someone with more lore experience than I can correct me, as I likely got things wrong, but that’s the gist, if I’m not mistaken. Enjoy the mini-novel (sorry lol) 😅

[nimble ingot]

Adding on to what Cro wrote

Dawn is a pilgrimage. Where the birth of a civilisation is just about to take place.
Although it is odd knowing there are a handful of hidden structures, and the temple.

Day is agricultural. Where civilisation has advanced enough to explore more of the environment and what they can harness from it.

Forest is industrial based. With its logging and mining operations that introduced forging.

Valley is somewhat its peak of civilisation. Where urban spaces dominate the natural environment.

Wasteland is when the war breaks out and nature has progressively decayed as man made ruins plague the area like an oil spill. Pollution has taken its toll on the environment.

Vault is a space where ancestors try to preserve the memory of what natural life they once knew.

And Eden is a chaotic storm of a collapsing civilisation.

One can also take note of the balance between manmade and nature shifts in the realms.
There is also a reference to the realms being compared to stages of life (birth, childhood, adolescence, adulthood, mid-life crisis, elderhood, and death) There is also Orbit that represents Rebirth. A realm disconnected from the others until skykids helped reconnect the realms and helping cycle of life and death to start again.

[midnight sonnet]

I’m looking into Turkish lore for that because I am under suspicion that the bluebird is based on Homay

[scenic pebble]

isn't it based off of a Maeterlinck play?

[midnight sonnet]

Yes that is likely based on the myth of Homay a blue bird that brings good fortune and endless joy to those who witness it

And great sorrow to those who dare catch it

And in some myths she’s the daughter of the sun and the son of Samrau

And the Megabird, essentially the closest thing to a god in Sky, is represented by the son which means the Bluebird could be the Daughter of Megabird

And too add Birds seemed to be the only creatures safe from the light factories which means they were likely sacred creatures and were often replicated since people would fly for travel

[narrow marsh]

Hello!

Here's an analysis of everything we know about the Dark Dragon's, or "krill", origins so far. 👇🕯️
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[narrow marsh]

Conceptually and thematically, you'll find that most Darkstone technology are quite representative of batteries; energy being stored in capsules instead of material being stored in containers.
This means that it may not be a matter of "fitting" anything, if the entire thing is a battery itself 🕯️

[ionic wing]

Does anybody know if any speculation on what king resh will look like?

[sour sphinx]

There has been some concept art of him. For canon, he'll definitely show up. I believe he wears a diamond shaped mask

[ionic wing]

Where may I find concept art of him?

[sour sphinx]

I did try looking for websites. So far I found most of them are from Tumbler

[eager burrow]

We can actually see statues of who we assume is the Eden King in the Golden Wasteland outside of the Vault Entrance! ^v^

[sour sphinx]

I did briefly take a look at that when I was avoiding Krills at the Battlefield area

[ionic wing]

Ouuu

[sour sphinx]

I was just thinking back on the Battlefield area and thinking about the Seed memory in Aurora's Concert. All the abandoned shields, swords, spears, and possibly catapults are from war probably against each other, taking down light creatures , and Stars are falling and crashing down on them.
I'm guessing nobody won (pretty much a draw) During the Eyes of a Child memory, we can see sadness everywhere. Parents lost their kids, kids lost their parents 😿

[eager burrow]

These are the statues in question:
(Would’ve gotten closer but somebody activated the gate that summoned the krill and I’m not dealing with that tonight)

Also worth noting that the towers to entrance to Vault may just also be massive statues of the Eden King?

[ionic wing]

I feel like that was my fault, I'm so sorry! Were you the skykid with the ponytails?

[eager burrow]

Nope! I didn’t light anybody when I went in, I don’t think it was you ^v^
I was wearing a dyed green Bereft Veteran’s cape, the Days of Bloom Braid, and the current mask accessory from the Season of the Blue Bird ;))

[ionic wing]

Whew!

[eager burrow]

A note on this:
one of the shields in Wasteland has a spear in it; it looks intentional. And in the Wounded Warrior’s memory, we see people launching spears at them (and someone Wounded Warrior was close to dies as a result).
In my very honest opinion, I think it’s safe to say they were fighting one another. Whether or not it was a proper civil war or simply a large rebellion is up for debate, but it looks very very likely the Ancestors were killing one another over something. The fighting might’ve been indefinitely halted when the krill showed up and both sides had to deal with them.

(the aforementioned shield)

[spiral vault]

I think Aviary would be outside of the kingdom, and it was probably founded after the Shattering

[spiral vault]

I think they disappeared forever. Idk, it makes their sacrifice more meaningful in a way.

[spiral vault]

I'm starting to subscribe to the theory that the blue bird satirizes aspects of the Sky community. I mean, look at this...

[narrow marsh]

You can already see him in the flesh in the Sky: The Two Embers trailers!

Here they are 🕯️

Sky: The Two Embers Official Teasers (both)
https://youtu.be/rC0XiH5ZIDU?si=BVDHoxbhOdu1jkAE

The Two Embers: Part One | Official Trailer
https://youtu.be/FWepS03YbFU?si=pb7YLVG9JmacV2yj

[ionic wing]

You don't see his face though

[spiral vault]

Yeah, it's probably covereed with a mask

[narrow marsh]

Funnily enough, we were just discussing faces recently
Unless you mean that we haven't seen the front of his mask in full HD yet, in which case- I'm sure we will get to see in all it's full glory

[wintry matrix]

Close enough #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[wintry matrix]

someone should really pin the directions guide cuz even i am starting to struggle to find it to add links to it lmao

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[eager burrow]

All the directions you’ve done or just in general?

[wintry matrix]

the one in link i just posted, it leads to other direction guides for each realm

[eager burrow]

Oh wait yeah
Brain’s running a little slow sry

[midnight sonnet]

So I have a feeling that birds are what make up the greater pantheon

[strong geyser]

WHAT IS GOD DOING IN THE DEPRESSION AREA

[midnight sonnet]

Watching over their daughter duhhhhh

[strong geyser]

*throws you lore material *

[midnight sonnet]

*if my theories are correct and you are only helping my theories that the bluebird has a connection to Megabird which is likely familial if we take into account the myths of Homay as the basis of the play

It’s all coming together (I think I’m gonna start writing it soon I just need more evidence of the birds sacred nature in the kingdom of sky so if someone has any and all depictions of birds in sky that would be insanely helpful but otherwise I’ll be going through the realms myself)

[strong geyser]

birds in sky hmm other than the fancy one in prairie peaks and the two aforementioned ones there aren't really any more significant birds I can think of

[wintry matrix]

[strong geyser]

birbs💥💥💥 I don't rly think the prairie peaks bird has much significance tbh it seems only just a normal bird but I'd love to be proven wrong

[wintry matrix]

it has its own unique model

[midnight sonnet]

I’m thinking about murals of birds more

[strong geyser]

yep but other than that it seems more like a fancy normal bird than one with heavy significance 😔

[wintry matrix]

i got what you are thinking dont worry

let me finish geyser and granma first i did not cr yet at all today, was busy on isle

[midnight sonnet]

Yeah we could both do it I need to do my dailies first tho

[wintry matrix]

i should already have some in my archive

[strong geyser]

thinking abt the mural in the water outside the office portal

[wintry matrix]

thats megabird

[midnight sonnet]

Yep and that’s already in my records as a bird of special interest

[strong geyser]

I know

I'm just thinking abt the mural as a whole esp the lil alef

[wintry matrix]

please credit me if you use any of those

[midnight sonnet]

Then this mural comes to mind as the birds seem to be the same color of Aurora who has been theorized as being the Megabird itself

[strong geyser]

throws lore significance of ||almost|| everyone having no gender at you

[midnight sonnet]

That’s true and it comes in handy when the bluebird itself seems to be based on Homay who is the daughter of the sun and the son of Samrau

Homay is often duogendered

[wintry matrix]

are those photos okay? i can go find rest, those were just things i already documented

[midnight sonnet]

Yep their good but wouldn’t mind more if you’re up for it

[midnight sonnet]

Btw Homay is Turkish myth which is often connected to Abrahamic faith which includes Judaism and Well the elders have Hebrew names

Turkish myth is also somewhat connected to Buddhist faith as well which Sky has definite influence off

Turkish myth has a blend of both sides which we can see in Sky so theologically speaking looking at Turkish myth is pretty accurate to Sky lore

[midnight sonnet]

She’s also Persian

[distant pebble]

could an older bird like mantas with more than one pair of wings but not elder or enormous enough to be that burd

[distant pebble]

Don't forget that current names TGC refer to elders with are weather/time of day based or just [blank] elder
I think

[distant pebble]

birds being with Little Prince also could be somewhat important if we consider the season mirroring elders treory but that's mostly my speculations and alef obsession

[distant pebble]

he flies so funny

[wintry matrix]

prince and krill for your 4th point

[ancient sky]

omg krills are mantas???

[distant pebble]

can't you see the resemblance

[ancient sky]

no

[ashen fractal]

They seem more like the whale creature than mantas... unless the whale is also a manta but I didn't think that was confirmed as the whales and Elder manta seem to be a similar size but aren't the same thing? Please correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think mantas evolved to whales?
Also the creatures with spotlights look more like grown up manatees than mantas

[wintry matrix]

they seem to be corrupted version of something between adult manatees and elder mantas

[ancient sky]

yes those things

[ashen fractal]

Ah I just never thought of elder manta and the grown manatees from the trailer to be the same thing. Only one had the spot light. So I figured since these creatures were also used for travel that maybe the oldest ones were already near the mountain and were being used.

[sour sphinx]

I've seen a couple or so other shields that were damaged from a spear impaling into it

[distant pebble]

the fact that lore chat is sometimes just randomly

"Yeah there definitely was a war"

to this day

[earnest briar]

the Aurora concert fundamentally changed us.

[distant pebble]

oh yeah

[wintry matrix]

granma went to war just so you can wear funny hat and eat cupcakes

[distant pebble]

granny ended it

[narrow marsh]

Beautiful! And as for using photos from your growing gallery, I may eventually take you up on that offer for my own blog 🕯️

[wintry matrix]

what blog?

[wintry matrix]

oh to be tiny Lamed on cave of prophecies wall

tiny Tsadi is also cute

[narrow marsh]

I have a blog I've hardly posted on it this year though

_

Why do we wear masks?

Masks are used by designers to create ambiguity. TGC expands on this by using the flexibility of changing masks to allow us to express ourselves however we want! But for Ancestors, masks were often used to show their place/role in society.

Topic 1: Where do they get them?
Descendants (skykids) are 'born' with masks. But it's quite possible that Ancestors create all of their masks, and are not 'born' with one on. The Passage guide is confirmed to craft masks, and we see Ancestors change or prepare to swap their masks in their stories in the cases of graduation of roles.

Topic 2: What are they made of?
The reasons Descendants change their masks are often theorized (but not unanimously agreed on) to be through shapeshifting qualities of our Light. Yet Ancestors seem to be much more grounded and mortal, likely not having their clothes be (theoretically) made of Light as we often posit potentially.

Observation
It's important to note that skykids appear to be completely 'different species' that were created to mimic the form of Ancestors (or perhaps a particular Ancestor/proto-skid).
Ancestors may have had social/cultural reasons for crafting masks for themselves, while Descendant's masks seem to be deeply woven into their biology/anatomy, due to how they form on our faces from birth. The same goes with the rest of the things we wear.

Observation
Two Embers trailers haven't depicted a single maskless Ancestor so far! Showing the 'real' faces of the Ancestors would be quite the design and narrative challenge, as once they commit to showing the skykid community any one of the Ancestor's faces, there is no going back.

If we were to see an Ancestor (perhaps Alef themself) change their mask, it would possibly be implied off-screen or shown in shadows/silhouette.

Thank you for helping, everyone! ❤️ 🕯️

`

@earnest briar @wintry matrix anything to fix?

[wintry matrix]

im running on low sleep past few days so brain is not braining for this rn

[narrow marsh]

Lorechat will still be here tomorrow, after all

[wintry matrix]

or they are just not confident/experienced yet into modelling faces and expressions

one interview says masks are made out of stone

i still feel like ancestors wear their masks for same reason we wear clothes (or something in that sense) and only their closest ones are allowed to see their bare face
mask changing can also be "sacred" act performed in private room in presence of only those who are allowed to look

alef changing masks and becoming resh (if the mask itself didnt mutate on him) was likely also ceremonial act performed by Lamed's acolytes

sorry if anything i said doesnt make sense, i might rephrase than when my mind is not foggy

[earnest briar]

Very well written, Tomte! I’d say masks in Sky can be used for both ambiguity and expression. We may not know what someone looks like under a mask, but they can still use their mask to express themselves and their identity in unique ways without needing to show their face.

[wintry matrix]

just like people with autism

maybe thats why i feel this game so much

[earnest briar]

As a People With Autism™️, I can confirm that masks are very cool and facial expression social norms are dumb and confusing.

[ashen fractal]

Also concur as one of those AuADHD folk!

[wintry matrix]

hello people with autism im also people with autism AuDHD actually

[distant pebble]

i love that game about guiding dead autistic people into the promised afterlife they couldn't reach due to industrialization

[ashen fractal]

ok very.. too real but you know I guess I shouldn't be surprised finding so many others focusing on lore in this game are also ND

[wintry matrix]

pretty funny innit, as it if was parody on how unfriendly our real world is to neurodivergent people (sorry for typo, brain is mushy)

[distant pebble]

we need to make skykids for them

[earnest briar]

do you think darkstone was Alef’s special interest?

[wintry matrix]

definitely

whole performance season cast is literally autism(tm) including their guide

[distant pebble]

damn i was born in autism season

[earnest briar]

And I love them for it.

[wintry matrix]

im libra so i was also born in autism

[distant pebble]

i mean in a moth way
but uh we were born just different

[wintry matrix]

well in moth way too cuz i joined mid duets

i didnt know what seasons and events were until moomins started though

[earnest briar]

Okay now I need someone to pyschoanalyze every single detail shown about the Ruler in the Two Embers teasers under the lens of neurodivergency. I’ll give a couple of my thoughts.
Gloves: Texture sensitivity/sensory issues?
Lives up in a floating castle: less noise from city below, doesn’t have to interact with people much.
Stubborn as honk, refuses to back down when it comes to their big important project/special interest, Lamed has to give Stewie a powerpoint presentation on their life in the hopes they’ll be able to go and have autism-to-autism communication with the Ruler.

[distant pebble]

the two tisms

[wintry matrix]

can confirm Stewie is also autistic coded - more interested in animals than people, likes to play with and make little gizmos and gadgets, uncomfortable in social interactions (shy stance when you make a nest party), not very expressive

barefoot because socks are enemy (atleast in two embers, they wear open toe sandals in game)

speaking of which, alef in his king form also looks barefoot

[earnest briar]

I’m gonna go make a quiet corner for Stewie in my Nest now. 🏃‍♂️💨

[distant pebble]

i was literally typing that

[wintry matrix]

Lamed getting headaches from trying to make him wear shoes

[scenic pebble]

he needs to taste with something after all

[distant pebble]

i just know Lamed is the last parental figure he could possibly have and it's going to be true if i hc hard enough

[wintry matrix]

also not cutting their hair and letting it grow despite literally living next to two hairdressers, because cutting hair is also evil

[wintry matrix]

my source: literally baby Stewie

[distant pebble]

their hair looks fabulous on its own
why'd they do anything to it

[wintry matrix]

im surprised we still dont have any stewie merch to this day

[dark mountain]

What the heck is this sky friends??

[nimble ingot]

out of bounds Dawn elder

[dark mountain]

Is it an old model?
Why are they there!?
I have many questions!!

[nimble ingot]

This is more of a game based question, though here goes.

That is indeed the ingame elder as you meet them in the game today.
Techinally, the elders have not gotten an update to their models since the live release.

These out of bounds areas are how the game plays cutscenes. The models move and play their animations with your skykid in it.
When the cut scene ends, it teleports your skykid back in bounds for you to play the game.

[nimble ingot]

The more accessible ones are the Valley of Triumph twins' out of bounds coliseum, and the floating island in the void of the Vault elder.

There is also the all elders' cutscene area in the same place as the one for the vault elder. Since both requires a chibi clip and an object to help you pass through the walls/floor

[dawn wharf]

guys can we talk about the colored birds in the latest blue bird mission??

cause yeah it seems minute, but I think it implies that all kinds of light creatures were able to absorb colored light like we see with the butterflies; i think we only harvest it from butterflies though cause other creatures were easier to be taken advantage of at a larger scale, I dunno, what do you guys think?? cause something's going on with those colored lights here

[wintry matrix]

oh! also ALSO stimming! they stim a lot during fireworks festival! unlike other spirits who do various dances and claps and stuff, stewie sticks to one movement the whole time (those screenshots are taken in span of around 10 minutes, they clap, then run to bring one of guides near portals, continue clappingh, then go to another guide etc etc)

[wintry matrix]

||you dont need chibi fall for any elders except vault and big elder room|| (i wont go into detail how to get there as it is aganist server rules and also risk of that method getting patched)

[nimble ingot]

fair and yes, the vault and all elder scenes requires chibis. They have a way of getting into the walls.
My headcanon is there is always a chance that a chibi is crawling somewhere in the temple walls.

The valley one is by far the easiest out of bounds area to visit with the elders.

[wintry matrix]

heya! yes, this is indeed isle elder out of bounds, the same elder you see during cutscene when you meditate at their temple currently, from personal observation, each elder have total of 3 to 4 models - no light one cutscene version, lit up cutscene version and orbit version. There are also slight differences in valley elders models between their cutscene, elder room and orbit. The Eden gate you see in the background is not visible during cutscene itself, but it is where the following cutscene of elder mask lighting up on eden gate happens im yet to document isle elder OOB but if you are interested in this topic, here is work in progress list of all elder models in game #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[distant pebble]

i like how they seem to follow us around despite the ending of the quest and well everything happening in it
you know birds not really doing best thing for birds

[dark mountain]

Ooh, I am interested, thank you!!

[wintry matrix]

Cape: alternative to weighted blanket, something he can hide in from the world
Second special interest: mantas because they love him and follow him everywhere (rewatch trailers and pay attention to what is happening in background, you can see them flying nearby in almost every scene with child him)

Hyperfocuses on the giant darkstone way too much to notice it is taking away his health

sky children of the tism

[narrow marsh]

Perhaps, but I'm more concerned with the narrative expression, rather than game-development restrictions.
As Enzo says, masks are used to express something about the character just as much as any character design detail would.

But in terms of literary Themes, wearing masks represents concealment, status, layering, and culture. Our studies of these designs should reflect all of that intrigue. 🕯️

[wintry matrix]

how about this + message under it

[narrow marsh]

It's a cool idea! It'd be lovely to see that portrayed in TTE 🕯️

[distant pebble]

maybe whisperers get an allowance to not wear masks as like professionals
or it could actually be somewhat damaging to ancestor faces do some special procedures? maybe put some special substances on?

[earnest briar]

I’d say it has something to do with the themes Tomte brought up, of concealment and layering. That removing their mask and letting their face lie bare for the world and the Light to see, being willing to show their full selves, being vulnerable was an important aspect of being a Light Creature Whisperer.

The Light is all about Connection. So Whisperers must forgo Ancestor social standards and allow that connection to be made by removing their masks.

Interestingly, to my recollection, Light and Nightbird Whisperer are the only Whisperer Spirits who still wear masks. I’m on my way to go check right now, and whether or not that’s true will be important in shaping my upcoming speculation.

[eager burrow]

Oooh I like this a whole lot!!

It would make sense for the Whisperers to be an exception to the rule.
I wonder if the Nightbird Whisperer still wears theirs because they’re still young? Still a child? And it’s a modesty thing—if we go with that connotation/hypothesis, like I have— or because they haven’t technically ‘graduated’ into the role in the Ancestors’ eyes.

After all, there may have been more, making them just a Nightbird Whisperer. But since their memory is the only one we find, to us, they’re the Nightbird Whisperer.

[narrow marsh]

I love this!!! Reminds me of the fantastic Sky AU webcomic "The Starborn Pilgrim". In that AU, Descendants are terrified of going to Eden and have made little tribes across the realms, where veteran leaders gatekeep and stop moths from leaving to further realms, and keeping your mask on is one of the traditions the leaders enforce, for some mysterious reason.

There are such strong themes of a fear of Connecting with others and the world, and of staying isolated, staying safe. Masks when used in that way, represent that Indifference. It's cool to imagine it being the same for Ancestors, while Descendants have rediscovered it entirely as one of their many ways to fluidly express themselves.
Transformation from a symbol of Suppression to a symbol of Expression! 🕯️

[earnest briar]

I was correct, Light Whisperer still wears a mask. And there’s an interesting detail on it.

Perhaps Light Whisperer doesn’t need to keep their face bare because they already have a strong connection with the Light and Light Creatures? The icon in the menu for their call is a baby Manta, but their name is Light Whisperer. Not a specific Light Creature, Light as a whole.

And that gold diamond is painted on their mask to symbolize this powerful connection by paying homage to a physical detail of Creatures of Light.

[narrow marsh]

That's exactly what I had been thinking too
But what's the other masked whisperer?

[earnest briar]

Nightbird Whisperer! Now, if my theory is that part of being a Whisperer requires not wearing a mask, (unless you’re Light Whisperer) but Nightbird has one, that would seem like a contradiction. But I have a thought about that as well.
“It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye.”
“I would rather see the world through the eyes of a child. /And Mothers’ hands are warm and mild, I would rather feel this world through the skin of a child. /When a human strokes your skin, that is when you let them in. Let them in before they go; I would rather feel alive with a childlike soul.”
Children have an easier time forming that bond with the Light that is required to be a Whisperer than adults do, such that they don’t need to make themselves as deeply vulnerable.

[pastel brook]

A "moth" is a new player. They have brown wings, they flap around uncontrollably, and they are drawn to flame!

[sour sphinx]

Since we were born from fallen stars, would we still be a star? Or we're a special entity of light that tries to bring the Realms back to life again?

[eager burrow]

Special entity of Light, born of the stars, meant to rekindle the lost Light in the world and heal the damages done by those who came before us.

In short, both. ^v^

[spiral vault]

Probably, if Skykids could be colorful, then so could other animals

[wintry matrix]

I think it is more like this: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[wintry matrix]

Listening to viva la vida and the lyrics are kinda resh ngl

[valid dagger]

idk why but for me, aot "my war" first verse are kinda like resh too. As for sky's general story, it would be fit with SSBU "lifelight" lyrics

[wintry matrix]

I have no idea what any of those songs are

[valid dagger]

One is from attack on titan anime season 4 opening, and the other one are from smash bros ultimate main theme. You can search it up to find it

[wintry matrix]

I know what aot is but i watch sub, not dub

[wintry matrix]

whose message got nuked

[distant pebble]

it looked so interesting

[wintry matrix]

I only saw the name of this channel lit up, i didnt see the message at all

[distant pebble]

it started like speaking of old something something

[trail drum]

I mean we are children of light born from the stars

[wintry matrix]

exclusive resh shade of black, order now

[celest birch]

I´m impressed that you managed to keep the entire thing without festival tech interfering. Wow.

Have a nice sleep ... and looking through my own screenshots I´m impressed we both took a closeup of the same corpse. Also yes, huge AURORA is totally representing Megabird/The Light itself if you ask me; might as well call her Mega AURORA.

[wintry matrix]

wait the cocnert still goes on

[celest birch]

I´ve seen the countdown to next one, yeah. Just cannot access it without the Wings. :)

[wintry matrix]

somethign just strated

[celest birch]

Imagine it´s Exhale Inhale leading into Runaway. That would be rad.

[wintry matrix]

looks like it is

[wintry matrix]

well

[celest birch]

Awesome! In the meantime, here´s 2 other closeups of the battlefield

OMG 😆

[midnight sonnet]

I can’t believe I missed this

My brother is such a krill

[midnight sonnet]

And she appeared to us first in the form of a bird

Hehehege theology theory go brrrrrrrrr

[celest birch]

She was actually a blooming tree first that turned into a bird. :) I bet that is having some strong Yggdrasil (World Tree) connections. 🤭

[midnight sonnet]

She was a ball of light and then a tree… wanna know what lives in trees

Birds /lh. humor but I still have credance for my lore

[celest birch]

Oh indeed you do and in ancient Norse lore, Yggdrasil is seen as "foundation and axis of the Universe", thus a tree leading into a bird is as logical as it can be. First came the Universe, then the Megabird. :) While the ball of light could be seen as the "big bang".

[midnight sonnet]

Big brain moment

[celest birch]

Mark June 14th as the next big one then; we´re having a record to break. ;D

And yep, that´s how I understood Exhale Inhale. Big Bang, then the Universe, then Megabird, then Light Creatures ... and then Ancestors. :)

[wintry matrix]

all good now, sorry for interference and thank you for being patient with messages

[celest birch]

:)

[midnight sonnet]

I am evil for sucking in all the lore and using it for my thesis

[narrow marsh]

Endless commitment to the tasks 📸

[trail drum]

Theory about Aurora

She descended from the great orbit

[midnight sonnet]

How my evil plan has gone so far is that I’m convinced the birds are sacred and the Megabird and bluebird are the gods in pantheon so far

[wintry matrix]

still crying for that dead manta though

[celest birch]

I like to think Blue Bird is the one that used to leave those eggs after that one Blue Bird quest.

Basically a plain bird like others while the really big one we see might be the "Great Bird" version of itself.

And yes, this totally means that other birds might have "Great Bird" versions of themselves as well, like we see with Great Mantas (quad-wings).

[midnight sonnet]

The bluebird play is likely based on the myth of Homay a often blue feathered bird that brings great fortune and joy to those who behold it and great sorrow to those who are foolish to capture it

And Homay is the daughter of the sun in some myths and the sun is a great source of light ya know so it is perfect

[wintry matrix]

this singular scene makes me go ue ue still

[celest birch]

Oh yes, while when it comes to 9-Colored Deer, its original lore is known as "Deer King" and is basically a benevolent reincarnation of Buddha aka an ascended soul, thus it might hold a chance that it´s another aspect of AURORA herself.

[wintry matrix]

and if this static picture makes me feel this way, i will straight up have mental breakdown when stewies manatee dies in two embers :_)))))))

[midnight sonnet]

The Bluebird is a dual god I believe

[celest birch]

Makes the manta-killing in The Seed that much more heartbreaking alright ... and given how we actually have manta riders in Citadel, it wouldn´t be too far to think that these killed mantas used to be Manta Cavalry mounts.

[midnight sonnet]

Ayo don’t remind me I don’t need to cry anymore then I just have to/lh

[wintry matrix]

megaurora

[wintry matrix]

manta killing is is warrior not seed

warrior is like double sided coin, on one side you have sad yet wholesome scene of a boy who loves mantas and wants to race on them and on the other you have literal slaughterhouse

[midnight sonnet]

Homay and Bluebird being well blue also fits to an idea I had about the bluebird being connected to power as Homay flying over you made you a king in some Persian myths, maybe the bluebird chose Alef to be king not aware of the chaos she’d cause

[wintry matrix]

wonder if they are carrying a baby or food/suppies

[celest birch]

Mean the Battlefield scene there where we see soldiers spearing mantas.

Wouldn´t be surprised that they´re potentially cavalry mounts, since we did see war horses in history.

While ones we see in Citadel during Warrior AURORA quest are very much akin to racehorses. Warrior concert just shows them being hunted and put in cages, which does make me think of wild horse roundups.

[eager burrow]

Good observation! I hadn’t considered mantas being used as war-mounts before, but that’s new food for thought!
I’m definitely going to try and get closer looks when the 9th rolls around! ^v^ I was so wrapped up in the music and visuals (this was my first AURORA concert ever!) that I hadn’t thought too much about it until the end of the Battle Scene.

Speaking of closer looks, Mega-Kudos to Luca for the photography!!
The shots look phenomenal!

[wintry matrix]

i think the mantas are way too gentle to be used for that

the whales maybe
also if you notice, lot of those mantas in the seed are way too small to carry anyone

mantas are unable to carry skid or ancestor until they fully develop their second pair of wings, small mantas can sometimes give you short lift (like your little friend) but only the ones that are atleast as big as the treehouse one is can carry someone, most of those mantas in the seed are still teenagers and not young adults like treehouse manta is

wind paths ancestors use fully grown adult mantas only

those are not adults

their wings get "tattered" look when they grow into young adult, treehouse manta is slowly achieving that and it is also bit bigger than the ones in seed
there is only one adult and that is on the second screenshot spectra posted #lore-discussion-spoilers message

compare the spears size on mantas with those the ancestors hold, those mantas are not much bigger than average ancestor, id say they are max same age as the one in treehouse

[earnest briar]

I would like to share an equally sad and dark alternative to Manta war-mounts: Mantas could have been used as carriers of weapons. Maybe even carriers of explosives, if we want to get really cruel.

[wintry matrix]

of course there are atleast 3 species of mantas - the tiny ones near snactuary guide and in light whisperer memory and then mono wing and dual wing, mono wings in adulthood keep their second pair mostly dormant, dual wing get proper set of wings as they get older, the "rule of tattered wings" applies both on mono and dual wing mantas, here is warrior of love with young mono wing manta

and here is his friend with much bigger adult dual wing manta for racing

sorry for quality, citadel is too far to relive the memory rn

here is warrior of love with adult manta

[wintry matrix]

yes, though i can see them more to being messengers (kinda like postal pigeons) or supply carries, not necessary weapon carriers but food and medical supplies carriers... or maybe they were none of it, maybe they saw their friends, their companions, the peopel who lived alongside them, fighting and they only wanted to help...

its like when eywa sent whole pandora aganist humans but in this case it was more of the mantas own decision than "order"

we dont see any explosives attached on them in the memory though... or anything attached despite the impaled spears... not even single ancestor is riding them

[eager burrow]

Ah, well. Interesting (albeit very sad) thing to think about anyway.

[trail drum]

It's hard to see but it looks like supplies, but would be interesting if we saw one of them carrying a baby

[scenic pebble]

"if it can draw a cart, it can draw a chariot"

[sour sphinx]

Since we use candles, hearts, and AC for IGC (in game currency) what sort of money did people use in Two Embers?

[sour sphinx]

This is my least favorite scene from Concert memory because of seeing everyone and the Mantas getting killed I know everyone is demanding lore so 😆

[eager burrow]

…. War Manatees.

[eager burrow]

This message from Decrepit Raider Avian sums up most of my thoughts and ideas on the subject nicely!

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

The long and short of it at the moment is that we don’t currently know, but we have plenty of ideas if we look at the way human cultures developed!

[eager burrow]

I mean, technically we all did! Orbit is just a name we give that location just before rebirth, after rejoining with the greater Light, or Megabird.
We as Skykids were sent by MB/the Light to restore the lands of Sky, healing the damages done by those who came before. ^v^

People (myself included) theorize how things like this affected the Ancestor culture and belief system.
We have many theories and hypotheses about what religions existed before they died out, some of which have AURORA as a main actor.

A list of potential religions is provided here by Shattered Tomte:
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

(do give it a read, it opens up a great deal of possibilities!)

[spiral vault]

I feel kinda hyped for it, almost in a morbid curiosity type of way

[sour sphinx]

I'm curious, would any Seasonal spirit such as Enchantment and Abyss (since their season is in the Wasteland) would show up in Two Embers? Also curious about Seed of Hope since he was in Wasteland during his past life? I know it's probably uncertain but I'm just curious.

[distant pebble]

both/j
seems too small for a baby
and a baby wouldn't be placed in a way that the shape makes sense

[distant pebble]

imagine a child being followed by a bunch of horses I'd hide

[distant pebble]

there's should be at least enchantment guide because they already know stewie
The seed should show up at least as a little cameo

[eager burrow]

If we wanna be really technical, she’s not the tree itself. She’s the orb of light that lands/hovers in the tree branches. The tree grows up from the water, AURORA lands in it as a ball of light, the tree blooms, then the blooms fall away as AURORA leaves it. She then turns into a bird and lands on the stone that emerges from the water next.
So, technically, she appears to us as a ball of light first, then turns into a form we recognize more: a bird.

Love the idea of the implications of Yggdrasil, though! I wonder if there’s more allusions to Norse mythos in the game than that?

[celest birch]

But of course and this still applies as well, since she is taking the role of The Light, thus her blooming the tree is like The Light (Big Bang) giving form and matter to the Universe in order to form galaxies and celestial bodies. ^-^
I actually wonder about that as well, would be really cool to see more allusiong to Norse mythos as well. Even if the World Tree concept isn´t strictly Norse, it´s the most known one; Chinese and Indian mythos also have the World Tree be the center of the Universe. :D

[celest birch]

I would approach, shamelessly. I love horses.

[distant pebble]

i like horses but from afar

[torpid grail]

not really a lore question, but does anyone know why Sky is called "moonlight blade" on the nvidia control panel settings for the game?

[celest birch]

... That Nvidia control panel must be REALLY drunk. 🤭 Do you have both games installed?

Since there is a possibility both games have the same settings if they´re both installed.

[eager burrow]

Did you mean for this to be in the screenshots and videos channel?

Cuz this is the lore channel.

[wintry matrix]

I tried to bring up question of money in sky but o one really answered back then

[trail drum]

We don't really see any babies in the trailer, the most we can get for babies is chibis, but yet we haven't seen a chibi in the trailer, maybe we might see one when Part 1 comes out or in Part 2, would be funny to see small chibi moths playing together like toddlers

[wintry matrix]

Thats… literally child alef and manatees

[distant pebble]

yes, that's the reason i knew i'd hide i think about alef too often

[wintry matrix]

Hi! Please remove this, it does not belong to lore chat but #screenshots-and-videos thank you!

[distant pebble]

moth is a child of light
i doubt we'd see many in a setting 500 before they existed
maybe like a several seconds timeskip at the end but uh

[wintry matrix]

My take of existence of money in sky kingdom (took a while to find that message) #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[wintry matrix]

why did i wrote manatees and not mantas, the #justiceformanatees is starting to brainrot me

[distant pebble]

Alef was a horse girly

[wintry matrix]

She leaves the bird and the bird becomes just husk without light and then she transforms into manta who she later leaves as well and the manta turns into husk as well we in bird form during start of seed also lose our light and become husk as we enter wasteland vortex and scene after it transform us into butterfly

So she definitely is some form of life/light entity if not megabird themselves

[wintry matrix]

The lost ark looks looks bit like viking ship and the days of bloom tree roots go VERY deep if you clip underground, i forgot to screenshot that but those go suspiciously way too deep

[wintry matrix]

She also gives the light to us at the end #lore-discussion-spoilers message

Please stop. This belongs to #screenshots-and-videos and not here.

[gleaming storm]

I’m sorry :.(

[wintry matrix]

You were told this previously and yet you posted the same video again. We appreciate your contribution but that video has nothing to do with this channel and I think it would make lot of people laugh in #screenshots-and-videos instead!

[eager burrow]

Oh, how intriguing!

[wintry matrix]

Can you kindly please remove those messages as they have nothing to do with topic of this channel and you posted the video into screenshots channel prior to sending them here?

[rancid ore]

@gleaming storm Hi there! Just a heads up that I've removed two of your posts; we ask that folks keep this channel to discussion of spoilers. #screenshots-and-videos is the best place to post neat things you see in-game!

[wintry matrix]

Thank you Lieu!

[wintry matrix]

days of color concept art from yesterday dev chat (they took inspo from aurora masks) ... and made a snail i guess?

no new two embers stuff, just short trailer recap

[wintry matrix]

oh hey days of color cape in two embers likely not but it was my first thought when i noticed it

[distant pebble]

it looks more like a piece of fabric than a cape

[wintry matrix]

yeah thats what i said its likely not but it looks liek one on first glance

[distant pebble]

i meant to say it's not only not raindow cape it's not any cape

[wintry matrix]

no i think it is still some form of a cape/poncho, it has like "flat pyramid" cut than just square cut like blanket

it is way too big to be a rag but small(ish) to be a blanket when you compare it to clothes next to it

could also be tunic, it looks like it has sleeves

[wintry matrix]

hmmm one of realms i really wanna see in untouched state is valley, it is still mostly preserved thanks to being frozen solid from low temperatures and also being high enough to avoid the main blast from explosion but you can still see signs of progressed(?) decay already, the street paths are pretty much gone, either destroyed by time or buried under layers of ice and snow

[wintry matrix]

also im surprised Infections Of A Different Kind is not included in the concert, it sounds like it could tell a lot of lore

[eager burrow]

Mmm good point!

[eager burrow]

Assuming you just meant Valley of Triumph, not the entirety of the Golden Valley?
I think it would be really pretty to see it with more decorations and lights (like during an event or something) strung across the streets. Or maybe with some gentle snowfall. Seeing the streets repaved would be so neat, too!

[wintry matrix]

valley of triumph yes, wasteland is not covered in snow

[eager burrow]

Yep yep got that ^v^

[wintry matrix]

those are claw marks

something broke loose here

and those are not some boudlers, those are giant darkstones

some are still in, now sunk, boat

yeah there definitely was mine shaft before the whole area flooded

it will take a while till i get to document wasteland so im sharing stuff that i will maybe forget

the mine carts were also darkstone powered and maybe even automated because of that

thise buildings are also absolutely enormous in size, much bigger than gw temple

also some neutral fish seem to live here alongside light creature fish

[midnight sonnet]

I’m currently working on a project concerning this

[wintry matrix]

mmm i need content, hoping tgc will drop more little sneak peeks (be it just screenshots, anything goes) the more close we will be to two embers premiere

[celest birch]

I like how is she changing her outfits.

[wintry matrix]

i wish i was there for the season, her ultimate outfit has much nicer shade of gree and cut than the cure for me one

[untold nebula]

i will forever mourn her ult hair

[wintry matrix]

(Convo related to this pic: #seasons-events-chat message )

Horse girly princess alef

[sour sphinx]

Once the wifi gets back at home I'll check that out Thats in the Battlefield area, right??

[wintry matrix]

yes

this scene is likely one of those tall cannon towers from behind than smaller turret on lameds temple, i was deling with someone summoning the krill and im also not really up to oob adventure right now to get proper location photo

[wintry matrix]

rest of locations either doesnt exist anymore/yet or lack critical infomation about its surroundings

[wintry matrix]

TWO EMBERS: TRAILER VS GAME

PART 1 TRAILER
#lore-discussion-spoilers message
#lore-discussion-spoilers message
#lore-discussion-spoilers message
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

PART 2 TRAILER

PART 1 EPISODES

PART 2 EPISODES

world of sky direction guide: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[sour sphinx]

I do have my own theory, since King Resh may have lost his mother due to corruption sickness, maybe he caused the world to fall so they can share his pain? I'm probably wrong but what if??

[cobalt palm]

I think that this shot may be closer to Eden than Wasteland temple personally, but could equally be an unseen part of Vault too

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

But overall great analysis of locations!

[wintry matrix]

Thanks! I didnt wanna do through eden just for this the pnr shot is just something i own by chance

Also i skipped vault ciz it can be any floor really

[cobalt palm]

I have a bunch of these somewhere I can dig out with enough time, I just knew this one as I already tried comparing these scenes when the trailer released

[sour sphinx]

I know currently that the temple is in the area where you are headed to Orbit. I'm curious if that's it in Two Embers or if it's for other uses like for the King and maybe for caretakers for the castle?

[cobalt palm]

I do hope we get some reference to the Vault's Temple floor at some point, even if it's a background detail

[torpid grail]

Sorry for the late reply, but no, I do not. I have never even heard of another game by that title

[celest birch]

... Wow. Nvidia is VERY drunk alright in that case, since Moonlight Blade is a whole different game.

[torpid grail]

I'm not on my PC right now, but in the settings it's something like "moonlight blade (sky.exe)" or something along those lines

[celest birch]

I have no words on that. Wow.

Sorry to derail the lore-chat, everyone.

[cobalt palm]

Interesting, I wonder if it's just going off exe file name, and why would moonlight blade have it's main program called Sky.exe
Bizarre

[torpid grail]

It's not a different program called moonlight blade. The sky program is called that. It has the sky app icon and stuff

Any other PC players with an nvidia card who can verify this? (Also I know this probably shouldn't be in lore discussion, but I didn't know where else to bring it up)

[distant pebble]

do all other elders wear dresses?

[eager burrow]

Valley Elders do not; they wear body suits more suited (HA) for competitive athletic activities. Wasteland Elder does not; they’re wearing armor.
Not sure about Prairie Elder.
Isle Elder wears a robe, Vault Elder wears a robe and full headdress, and Forest Elder has a sort of dress/robe (potentially with leggings?)
I haven’t actually watched any of the Elders’ cutscenes in a hot minute, so my memory may be incorrect.

[daring sorrel]

What's causing the strong winds at the start of golden wasteland?

[wintry matrix]

No it was joke to our girlboss alef hc

[wintry matrix]

Perpetular(?) storm caused by shattering

[daring sorrel]

What's shattering, btw?

[celest birch]

The great cataclysmic event that essentially erased the Kingdom from the face of the world of Sky. Imagine it as a nuclear explosion from the peak of the mountain of Eden.

[daring sorrel]

So is gw radioactive or with radioactive waste?

[wintry matrix]

Not really or atleast we dont know because nothing directly mentions it. Theres lot of waste water that will drain your light away

The waste water is mixture of light creatures remains and something else

[distant pebble]

i meant thet they uh could dress up for uh occasions

[wintry matrix]

Sah would totally wear dress unironically

[distant pebble]

For the sake of the competitive spirit
need to look better and be better

[wintry matrix]

“Dear sister, I might have lost a bet but your punishment is my wi-“ strong breeze of wind from under “cold cold cold cold cold”

[topaz mist]

Thank you for the drawing prompt luca

[wintry matrix]

tsadi is literally wearing high heels by the way

[wintry matrix]

Also if unsure, there is this for that reason #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[distant pebble]

the whole reason i actually needed all elders in dresses is because of him
hard to imagine what would fit Tsadi though

[wintry matrix]

maid dress

He wpuld be like that one buff dora the explorer cosplayer but in a dress

[winged bison]

wastleand elder looks like they wear heels
I know it's supposed to be boots, it just looks like heels haha

[wintry matrix]

it IS heels, im pretty sure i have photo of his heels alone from the elder room somewhere in pc and it is 100% heels

[winged bison]

imagine being golden wasteland elder wearing high heels running into the heat of the battle with muddy/sandy surface

[topaz mist]

Serving in battle

Both metaphorically and literally I inspired to be like him

[celest birch]

Like a boss? 🤭

[wintry matrix]

Thats basically what we were talking about in seasons chat yesterday

[distant pebble]

shout out to whoever can make a dress like that

[wintry matrix]

hey siri how much fabric do i need for a dress for 4 meters tall buff dude?

[tiny wing]

good

[wintry matrix]

heels!

Ayin is just straight up chess figurine

twins have those (i forgot what are they alled in english... rider boots??)

[topaz mist]

Oh yeah that heels are still wearable at sandy places me think. Its not too high and pointy so its more easy to balance your body focal point. Looks like the kind of shoes i wear often at school

[wintry matrix]

i dunno, they look almost the same as Teth has and hers are quite tall

[topaz mist]

Wait forget the heels height for abit is that hells shaped like inverted triangle

[wintry matrix]

also Teth has darkstones on her palms, i noticed this earlier but i wasnt sure if those are tattoos or something else but no, it has its own 3D model (she has them on orbit too and orbit has different mdoel than here)

so we have:

**Lamed **- shes the brains of the group, darkstone is on her headpiece (in two embers)
**Tsadi **- hes brawn of the group, darkstone is on his spear
**Teth **- she is maker of things, darkstone is on her palms

what about the rest? like sure all of them have diamond on their masks (except twins) but we saw only lamed directly having darkstone there and for tsadi we bring light back to the darkstone in his spear and that returns him his light

[topaz mist]

Sometimes I forgot this channel exist. I used to be here a lot back then but all I remember from here is the valley twins eats their apples with salt and pepper respectively

[wintry matrix]

they also drink appy juice under table during elder meetings

[topaz mist]

Thank you for another drawing prompt

[wintry matrix]

i can find you the whole message, there was more > #seasons-events-chat message

[topaz mist]

Oh thats quite funny Ngl for long I played sky, ive always seen the twins being so much younger than the other elders that the age gap seems a bit funny to me. My friend use to have the thought that the twins being more childish when grown up bcs given a position at young age Take it with a grain of salt its been a long time since i catch and remember the lore itselr

[wintry matrix]

well we can see them competing who is better in their cutscene so theres defo some rivalry and lack of braincells

[topaz mist]

Being a moth and your first introduction to the world is having your light being used as a toy for two grown ups who supposed to lead a realm

I love the twins with every piece of my soul the main reason I even play sky

[soft timber]

Not only that, but also launching your light into the heavens like a rocket too

[topaz mist]

Wait i need to rewatch the cutscene brb

Okay so

They flex their acrobat skill that synchronized and def didnt rehearsed at least a thousand times to do that, take our light, fight over it then threw our light to outer space... Is that light even supposed to go up there or theyre just playing cool after Sah lost it

[wintry matrix]

sah yelled homerun

[topaz mist]

Do he yelled for mercy after being stared to death by mekh for losing the light

[wintry matrix]

no, she yeeted him up there too with her own paddle

[topaz mist]

Good choice gotta tell him to catch the light himself

[wintry matrix]

how big were ancestors again???

im close to max height and this blade is three times my size

[scenic pebble]

that's why i theorize there was some sort of a formation of giants serving alongside Tsadi
or he just commited several Chiricho's at both sides

[wintry matrix]

also interesting fact - if you fly high enough in battlefield, you will end up on 3rd floor of vault somehow lmao

i have no idea how, my screen went black and it looked liek i hit reset barrier and suddenly i was in vault guess eden really IS a tall mountain after all

[eager burrow]

Oh, that’s way interesting!!

[eager burrow]

Should I try this? No. Am I going to? Absolutely.

[wintry matrix]

you have to be like... really high, i was here when i hit the vault

[eager burrow]

Oh dang. (Idk why I still wanna try lol)
Gonna be the first moth to develop a solo-rocket /j

[wintry matrix]

well if you have candles to spend, i can rocket you

[eager burrow]

I am quite broke unfortunately 😭

[scenic pebble]

https://tenor.com/view/royal-space-force-gainax-1987-wings-of-honneamise-gif-27297763

[wintry matrix]

yeah that was me lol

at that point i was only curious if you can ||hit the orbit without eden|| so i just kept going

[distant pebble]

reverse rebirth because you launch from the ground and go to the realm representing one of the latest stages of life

[wintry matrix]

"i gotta go my planet needs me"

[distant pebble]

Luca your hc's observations and jokes bring such joys please don't marry a rose

[wintry matrix]

im aroace so i dont think i will marry anyone

[spiral vault]

Seed of Hope seems like the right place at the right time, but all the others are probably doing their own thing at this point in the timeline. Or they already died

[spiral vault]

I found this answer on reddit:

"It's typical for From Software games to have a hidden Moonlight Blade weapon somewhere for the player to find. The most likely scenario here is that one of the Skygame devs is a very big fan of From Software games"

[spiral vault]

This is definitely Wasteland imo, the angle makes the two frames look similar but the mountain is much taer in the first picture

[spiral vault]

One small detail: I like how the circling mantas+ whale represents the cycle of light throughout the realms.

[distant pebble]

and a random krill is there too ig

[spiral vault]

The krill on the side is always a bit goofy to me, it's just so cool and emo all by itself

[cobalt palm]

Yeah, possibly much further down the mountain, without the cloud ingame above wasteland, we may even be able to see Eden from the battlefield

[errant summit]

This might be a big paragraph,but anyone tell whether I got the idea right.

Once long upon,there is a kingdom which is upon the Sky,and they were governed by 6 elders,and their king is Eden. With each elders given each realm,they are being the cornerstone of the defense,and pretty much safeguarding the Eden. But life and kingdom won't always go flowers and blossoms,right?

Eden was driven by greed,and tried to rupture the nature by exploiting more resources than a land can sustain.Since land and sky co-existed in that kingdom,and most lands are covered with clouds.Eden forgot one thing.There's a power much higher above him:The ABSOLUTE beings,us the kids.

Engulfed with rage,mother nature or whatever released "darkness", technically an atomic bomb which blasted with Eden as center.Also,in map,Eden is located at very top,meaning there are other lands around it,that we didn't explore. Nine colored deer confirms that darkness is technically the "sins" and "bad things" that accumulated by the humans,who have now died and became "spirits" (remember that they were all human,or mortals atleast).

Poor people trembled in fear and lost hope,in the place and sins of their king.We never get to see Eden because there's a possibility that his spirit existence itself is erased or eradicated(I said possibly),or it might be that he realized his mistake,but it's too late to resolve.

We,the Sky kids,are the hope that descended upon the Sky Kingdom.The candle light at the end of dark tunnel,the warmth,the flames of hopefulness,the fire. The end scenes clarifies that it all started and ended with fire,and happens "inside" a fire too!!

Hope y'all read it,and correct me if I'm wrong anywhere

[distant pebble]

ehh it could be a bit different
Resh also been said to want to change the world (i might still mix up two embers info tho) meaning not only greed but direct interference into how stuff works
I know it's your interpretation of shattering but i'd suppose everyone's death was less nature itself related

[errant summit]

wt r u typing

[distant pebble]

i can only tell you what I'm typing after i finish typing

[errant summit]

Well,I said cuz it might also be a factor. But I didn't see it as a main factor.

Two things might have happened:

• Eden must have done some "forbidden" activity,or messed with the unknown entity.
• Eden must have gained hatred from the very life beings,the concept of curse of darkness upon the kingdom which always stays in light. Just like a Ghibli movie

Notice that the darkness referred as "plants"?? I think the darkness is mostly a curse that befell the whole kingdom,and the Eye of Eden,as said as "eye", might be the vision of other world interfere with ours,and spreading darkness

[distant pebble]

Gem goes buzz ⛈️

[scenic pebble]

SCP-4000 ahh plot point

[eager burrow]

Just wait until you hear about Megabird and the Light Cycle—

[distant pebble]

Rock illness before shattering and dead parental figure #1 might've been pushes to the pursue of said 'changes'

[eager burrow]

Quick Notes from My Understanding of Things:

1. We don’t 100% know The Eden King’s motivations for creating the massive Crystal in Eden. Many of us assign it to greed, hubris, or a genuine desire to help the progression of the kingdom. We’ve made the assumption that the Crystal is a truly massive hunk of darkstone; material used to house light and power the kingdom’s artifices. Essentially, the Crystal is massive energy source.
2. The reasons for the Shattering are still not 100% known either. Again, this has a few theories. The Shattering can be seen as a massive overload that broke something vital, causing the whole thing to erupt. Or it could’ve been caused intentionally by the Eden King— whether the motive was ‘good’ or ‘evil’, we have no idea. But it happened regardless, throwing the Kingdom into chaos.
3. There is, indeed, a massive entity, a “Mother Nature” if Mother Nature encompassed the entirety of the universe, the entirety of existence as a whole, lovingly called “Megabird” by the community. Megabird is and/or facilitates the Light Cycle, the process through which everything is born, lives, dies, and rejoins the Light, then is reborn again. The Light Cycle is like a law of nature, everything follows it: the Mantas, the Manatees, the Ancestors, Us.
4. Eden was a holy place, the place you went to die and rejoin the greater universe. The Crystal in Eden disrupted the Cycle.
5. We, as Skykids, are not the absolute power. In fact, there’s something even above us. We are sent by Megabird to cleanse the Darkness that has fallen across the lands of Sky.
6. Darkness is simply the absence of Light. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a curse. We’re told the Ancestors took their Light for granted, and they lost it. What In-Universe Darkness is exactly is up for debate, but it behaves almost like a sickness or disease spreading across the lands as a response to the lack of Light.

[scenic pebble]

listen
i know the whole greed thing sounds plausible
but it's simple, so overly simple, and i know i'm being a Resh apologist
but i want to imagine several different things instead of just pointing at the big pointy man and calling him bad and evil and greedy and other mean things
also i'm just gonna drop down the mask and say that i am a raving industrialist on the inside and that "T h e f a c t o r y m u s t g r o w" phrase feels like a sleeper agent activation keyword to me
so with me coming clean let's try inspecting several different deeper ideas about what might've not just encouraged but maybe even forced some things to happen
first, the figurehead theory
Resh ain't no Havelock Vetinari and even if he was, the world is far grander than he could ever be, the administrative aparatus however small and efficient will always be corrupt to a certain level, we may never know what it was but we don't know just how much influence did Resh and the Elders truly have over the Realms

second, the water took my home theory
ever wondered why the main urban centres are high up in the mountains?
ever wondered why Dusk was first conceived to be a sunken city?
well, the water levels rose because of... something and that resulted in population density skyrocketing ||ba dum tsss|| which forced greater leaps in technologies to sustain such a population which ended up being unsustainable and that forced the Ancestors to do what they maybe... should have never done

third, the ground hates us theory
have you ever wondered why The Light prefers to form the local hivemind node outside a planet's atmosphere?
have you ever wondered if it was inevitable?
have you ever wondered if it was predicted?
have you ever wondered if spending too much time on the ground somehow curses you?
that bearing the burden of walking this land is at once your curse, gift, duty and only true way of proving your existence?
maybe we were always the battlefield on which they do battle but we hold the cards

[distant pebble]

Also it would be boring to make the second main character in embers plain evil 4-point star thing

[coarse gate]

Oh ur right I didn’t even think about that 🤯

[eager burrow]

I view it this way:
Is the Eden King straight-up evil? No.
Is the Eden King straight-up good?
No.

I think things like the Shattering are the result of someone doing what they think is right, what they think will be good and bring prosperity. Ultimately, however, they create more problems than they solved, and their good intentions perhaps became twisted. They still believe what they’re doing is good, but they’re not going about making those decisions through “good” channels.
Good intentions but “evil” execution.
That’s how I see it, anyway. Not a flat villain, but a potentially complex antagonist and foil to Hope, who clearly has a desire to help people.

Idk if that makes any sense, but I don’t think they’d just make the Eden King classic-cartoon-bad-guy evil. They know how to tell complex stories, and they’ll do so here.

[scenic pebble]

elaborating further since i somehow fit the previous message perfectly within the confines of this frail shell
we are children, the new hope
but we are also ignorant which also makes us innocent
these are rather interesting qualities which allow the greater whole to mold us as they see fit
maybe The Light seeks too guide us toward an enlightened future instead of a one where all die for reasons they cannot comprehend
maybe we are just a new wave crushing upon the beaches of this world, marching on towards trials we were not meant to overcome
maybe, just maybe this isn't the first time
and my train of though just ran out of fuel
i just hope that TTE won't blow

[scenic pebble]

i want to believe in them, i really do, i just dump my fear here from time to time
sorry if that is just too much fear mongering

[eager burrow]

Regardless, TTE will provide us with new insights, and we’ll be able to adjust our theories and concepts accordingly. I, for one, am excited to see more shots of Ancestor civilization and how they interacted when alive.

[gilded sparrow]

Can anyone help me farm candles at 2 o'clock?

[eager burrow]

Wrong channel. You’re looking for https://discord.com/channels/575762611111592007/591777850726547477